They are the child of Khuruga, Esteemed Minister of Social Unrest
#Exalted
buoyant summit
bleak hazel
no, as in the writer is Myra, who is occasionally around here
tulip folio
Esteemed Minister of Shitstirring.
buoyant summit
Ohhhhhhh
I like to imagine the Bureau has a stock RD for members to interact with this little fucker
wise ocean
I would say "don't worry, I have a Journeys for when the time is right" but that's like saying "don't worry, your brother-in-law is CIA"
buoyant summit
His greater concern is probably a good few of us being
dubiously
dedicated to our actual jobs
wise ocean
the one consistent positive thing anyone of any disposition, faction, or attachment to heaven can say about Crystal is that he is exceptionally dedicated to his job
everything else is up in the air
buoyant summit
I Hate Him Already
(positive)
Okay
I know people recommended I take isob however
Peacock Shadow Eyes
Combined with WSAV 'while being forgotten'
prisma sun
Drifts is actually only short-suffering
This is his first time In Charge of anything for the most part
tulip folio
Peacock Shadow Eyes is really good, especially as a control spell.
buoyant summit
Peacock Shadow Eyes is really good, especially as a control spell.
It also gives my WSAV bonus against its target cuz they can't form memories about me for that scene
buoyant summit
This is his first time In Charge of anything for the most part
Poor fucker >XD
wise ocean
Huh, I didn't even think of Peacock. If anything I thought your non-combat spell was going to be the Visit Dreams one.
Pretty solid pick though.
buoyant summit
Huh, I didn't even think of Peacock. If anything I thought your non-combat spell...
I have a Dream Hawk for my dreameating needs
:3
buoyant summit
Huh, I didn't even think of Peacock. If anything I thought your non-combat spell...
Stolen Face Masquerade is gonna be my Celestial Signature
I can remove my own face and become literally unmemorable
Also
Can't believe I haven't realized this until just now
I'm making a fucking Harlequin
fierce star
hmm, sidereal war's form charms don't stack with MA forms right
buoyant summit
They Do Not
coral wraith
making a sidereal is hard.
What in particular are you struggling with?
fierce star
Right now, caste and social ability focus
coral wraith
What's your character idea?
tulip folio
You know what martial art it's a crime doesn't get God Kicking Boots or Smashfists?
Earth Dragon
The Heavy Armour style can wear jade boots as long as they're classed as Armour not weapons
buoyant summit
Battles or Secrets fits these ideas wonderfully
prisma sun
I do kinda wanna make Smash Sid
Who doesn't fight anyone but just focuses on Feats of Demolition
tulip folio
Vague Pondering: Knife Martial Arts work with unweaving
So you can secrets big boss with knife and unweaving
fierce star
Exalted knifegun, huh?
tulip folio
Ebon Shadow IS a very good martial art for unweaving and stealth and uses knives...
coral wraith
Earth Dragon
To be fair, DeebBook was out before Iron Boots existed
I think you could quite easily backport them
prisma sun
Personally I feel like it's fine to vibe slot weapons into MAs
tulip folio
If I could convince the GM to allow Iron Boots for Earth Dragon I might make my sid an earth dragon sid.
coral wraith
Personally I feel like it's fine to vibe slot weapons into MAs
Same
tulip folio
+3 dice on Smashing Attacks and +5 soak does lead to 'Hey, going to just keep booting you over the horizon repeatedly'. XD
coral wraith
This one here
Secrets is good for that, sure
fierce star
I think as far as abilities, I'm gonna want investigation, socialize, and a combat suite? Some lore and occult?
tulip folio
Well, most of those are caste for Secrets
wise ocean
what kind of combat suite we talkin
fierce star
I was thinking sid melee, with either paired knives or knife plus unweaving.
wise ocean
yeah, that's a secrets
fierce star
Lol
wise ocean
I can also see knife as a serenities thing, but that's a very different vibe of knife
velvet raft
I still think it would be fun to play a sid riding a bee the size of a sky titan
tulip folio
...I do feel a bit bad that a chunk of the wanderer charms I'm doing are 'Hey, this is a cool evocation that fits their themes, I will adapt it into an actual exalt charm'
fierce star
Yeah I don't think this character is Vamp enough with her knives for serenities.
tulip folio
fierce star
Okay she is going to be bi but that's the standard for all my PCs, they're either bi as the day is long or more ace than something really ace
velvet raft
Every time I edit the character sheet for this mortal, her willpower creeps a little higher
I am now at 7 willpower, meaning 9 after exaltation >_>
fierce star
take the willpowerpill. Make sure to wpmaxx. do you need more ability dots? no, you need more willpower.
velvet raft
Facts
fierce star
the two most important things to spend your BP on are merit dots and willpower dots
marsh garden
it's kinda wild how much more efficient WP is with bp
velvet raft
Well, this is with crucible rules
So the only potential inefficiency is ability dots right now, since mortals have no favored abilities
marsh garden
ahh
velvet raft
That said the ST is starting us out with a bunch of extra XP, so I'm not hesitating to buy stuff up to 4 or 5 in general
It's just kind of interesting that I've ended up with a bunch of extra specialties, merits, and willpower
marsh garden
what all specialties do you have?
i don't think you've talked about what your mortal PC's like yet!
velvet raft
Backstory
The child of two House Nellens patriars, Lanying was never supposed to amount to anything. Her life followed the exact trajectory that her family expected, as she failed to take her second breath before she was sent to study broadly for a would-be-patriar's broad responsibilities as part of her schooling. It was there that she became convinced the world had no plans for her whatsoever, and that as one of the countless masses with no meaningful place in the designs of fate, her only hope would be whatever she made for herself.
Always rebellious, the Nellens scion neglected academic achievement for cultivating physical excellence and proud standoffishness. With time, she might have become a reasonably competent low-level officer in a Realm legion, or perhaps a well-regarded scout. But Lanying disappeared with the close of her secondary education, choosing to head South with a literal roll of the dice and little notice to anyone.
Now Lanying has a reputation in parts of the South: a desert guide with a knack for languages, willingness to take terrible risks, and the sheer luck to have survived them. She stays on the move, sustaining herself by seeing caravans, scholars, and travelers from one end of the South to the other. Occasionally, she finds work as hired muscle, but refuses to attach herself to a mercenary company. She says little of her dynastic bloodline, although she's not above making use of it for the sake of finding work with the Realm, whose money she is just as happy to take as anyone else's.
Steadfast and direct, Lanying is not as quick to take foolish risks as she seems, but is more so than she admits. Though not an especially skilled speaker, there's an easy, sharp-eyed physicality to her behavior that tends to impress effortlessly. She can be quiet and aloof, but is quick to action the moment she thinks she understands her situation.
Lot-Casting Atemi info
Featured art :D
marsh garden
👀
velvet raft
marsh garden
what's the unusual hide? 👀
velvet raft
Oh, she has it with subtlety. I figure it's an invisible wyld mutation she's picked up doing stupid stuff
marsh garden
ahh
velvet raft
marsh garden
somehow i missed the subtle
velvet raft
Oh wait merits were on the first image >_>
marsh garden
lmao yeah
velvet raft
Anyway the ST knows I like sids and infernals but I suspect solar is the most likely trajectory simply due to their familiarity with the splat
So
Que sera, sera
tulip folio
Divergent Paths
Cost: 4m; Mins: Wits 3, Essence 1
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Mute
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: None
The Wanderer knows which paths to take and which they should have avoided.
The Wanderer can use this Charm after moving — voluntarily or not — to return to her previous location without crossing the space between. Any damage or other harm she’d take as a result of moving is negated: falling, traps, environmental hazards, damage from Heaven Thunder Hammer, etc. Any Initiative lost from disengaging is refunded if the wearer uses this Charm to undo that movement.
Alternatively, the Wanderer can use this Charm at the end of any tick on which she moves, letting her act before she returns to where she was at the start of the tick. Doing so offers no protection against harm from her movement and doesn’t refund Initiative for disengaging.
Key:
Never Was(Essence 2): All other characters who observed the reverted movement forget it was originally made, as long as the wanderer did not make a hostile action this turn. Non-Trivial characters can spend 1 willpower to resist this psyche effect.
Paradox Guide(Essence 3): This can affect other willing characters in line of sight.
Never Was got a 'Hey, stop that' wording for 'no, you can't use it to stay in perma-stealth by making everyone forget you flicker stepping out and shanking a guy. It can save you from accidentally walking into the open/fucking up but can't be used alongside hostile actions.'
fierce star
nice
tulip folio
Paradox Guide also adds some Team Support to the charm. Letting a zoomy guy retreat after a charge or avoiding your buddy getting red misted because a dawn looked at him with heaven thunder hammer.
marsh garden
hmm, does this negate Slam/Throw damage as well?
or, er
i would say it does, but is it intended to?
tulip folio
Yeah. You are able to dodge Physics Engine Death
marsh garden
hm, should that part have more of a cost to it, then? since it's a pseudo-perfect against a relatively common strategy, i think an e1 4m charm is cheaper and more dippable than most of those that exist?
or wait no
nevermind, i forgot that Can't Be Moved is already e1 charm tech
this is more expansive than that but that doesn't make this more expensive
...who all has immovable tech, anyway?
is it just lunars and alchs?
alchs' version of that is so cool
i love the Gravity Rush submod
i wonder if Divergent Paths should add a key that lets you tether for a longer duration?
like, wp surcharge to set an anchor point for the scene that you can pop to zoop back to
dunno if that creates kiting problems, but it's always something i think about with this kind of rubber-banding
it's such a rad power in general
tulip folio
There's a follow-up charm that lets them set longer distances recall points with some work
marsh garden
nice
velvet raft
...who all has immovable tech, anyway?
Sids get it at … E2?
In resistance
One Way Forward is the charm
marsh garden
ah, that makes sense
oh right infernals also probably do it
yeah, e1 for em
deebs have a sketchier version at e3 in Immovable Mountain Technique, so i guess it's just solars/abyssals that don't
much more common effect than i realized
bleak hazel
figured I should do one of these for my main exalt
really Gleam needs one too, or they need to share one
bleak hazel
Rival has way too much fun and is nowhere near burned out enough to be an entire Nanami but the look, the acrobatics and the huge amount of booked overtime are all correct (once you account for the fact that his leisure time includes a bunch of stuff scheduled by his dead mentor)
buoyant summit
figured I should do one of these for my main exalt
Huh, I thought you didn't like Fate
bleak hazel
I didn't, but Shirou is about the right kind of eternally heroic dipshit and Rival is to some extent me poking the concept of the shonen protagonist with a stick
velvet raft
Bah, now I gotta do one for Red Evening Sky
bleak hazel
also he was one of the better parts, I got annoyed because it was just a continuous volley of rendering its own exposition pointless, rather than because the fights were bad or the characters particularly unlikable
Archer is a picture-perfect Sid but he'd be on Gleam's inspiration list
bleak hazel
Gleam is like Belisarius Cawl/Archer/Li Mu Bai/Hari Seldon/Gojo/Saw Gerrera
dead as hell so I can concentrate all the hype moments and aura characters into him
buoyant summit
l m a o
bleak hazel
and also Cawl and Seldon for the hubristic generational project stuff
buoyant summit
We have our own jaded Sidereal Elder
marsh garden
Archer is peak cinema
buoyant summit
buoyant summit
Dancing Wildflower Meadow, former hero, current sulker and master of fools who think they can change the world
bleak hazel
Archer feels more like a Sid to me, time travel aside
marsh garden
he's like a thulio sid except if time travel kind of worked
bleak hazel
"I was enlisted into an order of mostly forgotten demigods who drop in to crucial events to defend the world and got really burned out doing it " is just Sids, yeah
marsh garden
i mean, they're all ghosts
and they get power explicitly from not being forgotten
they don't really fit any splat cleanly
bleak hazel
well yeah, but he shows up in an implausible outfit to fire lighting effects out of a bow and do kung fu, that's an Exalt
they're good at that
buoyant summit
Funnily enough
bleak hazel
I tend to remove the metaphysics with a chisel when doing X-as-Y-splat because Exalted has such a specific and coherent set of internal rules for how all this stuff works that it clashes with basically everything else
buoyant summit
We've made Dancing Wildflower
buoyant summit
We still don't know what Caste she is
marsh garden
counter guardians take the mission statement of sids with the trappings of [deebs or solars]
usually
depending on how juiced the heroic spirit involved is
bleak hazel
I admit I have only seen the UBW anime but the best Sid in it is actually Caster's boyfriend, and he's just some dude who knows Violet Bier of Sorrows Style
buoyant summit
Also we just realized how much funny shit you can pull with PAoC
You can shove flying guillotine form in there
marsh garden
a Throne of Heroes thing as like, a specific afterlife thing in Creation could also be neat
bleak hazel
that used to be kind of the Daystar but the Daystar had so much other baggage that it mostly got thrown out
marsh garden
honestly i'd call that dude an enlightened mortal with...fuck, what's the punch-good assassin style?
bleak hazel
very dumb splatbook
chilly sluice
I admit I have only seen the UBW anime but the best Sid in it is actually Caster...
I love Assassin, he's peak
bleak hazel
ebon shadow or VBOS but he throws purple punches, so the latter IMO
ebon shadow is about being sneaky and he's not that sneaky
velvet raft
velvet raft
One of these only topple will probably get
bleak hazel
I know exactly one of these
chilly sluice
I love Assassin, he's peak
it is very funny that Tsubame Gaeshi as it is in Fate is basically just an Exalted unblockable
marsh garden
huh, yeah, pretty much
bleak hazel
I remember someone furiously arguing back on the forums years ago that that could no diff any exalt and I'm sorry, not quite
marsh garden
lmao
velvet raft
Komi, Jessica Arknights, Cassandra Cain Batgirl, Domon Kasshu, Kirika Noir, Sabriel Abhorsen
marsh garden
koujiro is pretty goated, especially in the gacha
bleak hazel
it is very funny that Tsubame Gaeshi as it is in Fate is basically just an Exalt...
I think it's more a multiattack, it's very reminiscent of the Sid charm Harmony of Blows, which is "when you have a choice about what move to do, do all of them at once"
bleak hazel
marsh garden
but swallow cutter is a fun as hell move
bleak hazel
the duplicates are in-universe not comic-motion-effect, you do a brief fate-thread-split and sword a guy several different ways
marsh garden
swallow cutter i'd call an unblockable because of the vibes
bleak hazel
could make an argument for both
marsh garden
it's textually attacking multiple times at the same instant
bleak hazel
make three attacks, split init three ways, unblockable
velvet raft
I think most servants could probably take out an e2 combat exalt, but at 3 or above exalts have enough silly tricks to turn the tables imo
marsh garden
true
like the uhhh
rat capstone?
or centipede capstone?
one of those is "make a bunch of attacks, last is unblockable"
could be kind of like that
bleak hazel
or mantis capstone, which goes "fuck you, unblockable undodgeable zillion damage hit"
velvet raft
Centipede's final attack gets less defendable based on how many earlier attacks hit
chilly sluice
Kojirou achieving the Second Magic by just trying a lot of times, until reality got too annoyed
marsh garden
it's not magic!!
bleak hazel
some of the genre conventions don't translate great but Cu gets to continue eating shit because now everyone big can perfect parry his spear and he gets to kill even fewer people with his instakill attack
marsh garden
it's basically the Second Magic, but it's the paradox of [a purely physical strike]
velvet raft
If enough of the earlier attacks hit, the final attack is an ambush, which uh
Is a lot
chilly sluice
some of the genre conventions don't translate great but Cu gets to continue eati...
as it is
being Lancer is suffering
marsh garden
that is at the same time, attacking thrice with the same attack, in the same breath, with the same motions that are three motions
but not magic btw
he's just that good btw
(i love koujiro and his stupid-ass phantasm)
chilly sluice
it's not even technically an NP
velvet raft
Why is Cu Chulainn not berserker-class
chilly sluice
even if it basically is
marsh garden
well.
marsh garden
~~Why is Cu Chulainn not berserker-class~~
there are explicit canonical reasons for that
bleak hazel
I think most servants could probably take out an e2 combat exalt, but at 3 or ab...
I think you could rock one at E2 pretty easily, if someone goes for that move on any E2 snake stylist they hit snake strikes the heel three times and clash the fuck out of him, and so on
marsh garden
it is a phantasm in the way other techniques are
it was something that he could just do
that became "the fact that he could do that" as a Noble Phantasm
velvet raft
there are explicit canonical reasons for that
O?
marsh garden
it's not something that he can only do because of NP magic
bleak hazel
Saber absolutely has Legend Forming Blow though so she's E3 at least
marsh garden
but something whose role is empowered by NP magic
velvet raft
...
marsh garden
no
chilly sluice
no
marsh garden
she has an N/A artifact
buoyant summit
lol
chilly sluice
definitely a Solar yeah
buoyant summit
An Invincible Sword Princess if ever there was one
marsh garden
O?
so, this is something that's tread a couple times within Fate - mostly in Grand Order, but also iirc in a manga somewhere
Cuchulainn's best class is explicitly Berserker
he can be a Lancer, a Caster, or a Berserker pretty comfortably
and is far and away most effective as a berserker
however, there are two asterisks here
velvet raft
In the Cattle Raid, Cuchulainn basically turns into the Hulk when the compact of honorable combat is violated
marsh garden
one - Warp Spasm is comically mana-intensive
bleak hazel
the main thing about Exalts is that once they get really high level they are basically sorting through their entire TCG deck of bullshitonium moves rather than just having one
marsh garden
it is utterly bugfuck insane to use, and so no Master outside of like
FGO's specific circumstances where they're hooked up to Infinite Money Machines
bleak hazel
so they don't compare great to most shonen where people tend to have one trick
marsh garden
can sustain it
and second
Cuchulainn thinks it's unsightly
he hates it, he would reject the call, he would kill his Master
buoyant summit
Why is that his problem with it???
marsh garden
anything to not be Berserker
velvet raft
In the Cattle Raid, Cuchulainn basically turns into the Hulk when the compact of...
Implying either you fight him one-on-one and lose, or he turns into the Hulk and you lose
marsh garden
Why is *that* his problem with it???
unsightly as in it makes him a horrible thing
bleak hazel
I was disappointed by the severe lack of Cu Chulainn activities in UBW to be fair
marsh garden
that kills his friends
bleak hazel
no chariot, no warp spasm, some spearing but not a lot
marsh garden
and just exists as a disgusting beast of infinite violence
"unsightly" not just in the physical sense
buoyant summit
Unless this is a riff on the fact that, in life, he was an uncaring bastard who got his friends and family killed a lot, idk how much I vibe with that lmao
marsh garden
but the moral and emotional senses
velvet raft
Unless this is a riff on the fact that, in life, he was an uncaring bastard who ...
He was not
marsh garden
he likes being the spear guy
he thinks gae bolg is fun and cool and it's his favorite thing to do
buoyant summit
gestures to his battle-brother, his combat instructor, and his own son born by a wife he left behind
marsh garden
he does not like being The Machine That Makes Meat
velvet raft
He does kill a guy who is effectively his battle brother during the Cattle Raid, but that's not while he's the Hulk, that's normal fighting
buoyant summit
Fair
marsh garden
and isn't that killing of his battle-brother like, an explicit source of shame?
velvet raft
I don't recall
It's an honor thing, they're on opposite sides of the fighting and so they gotta
And IIRC that's the guy who actually wounds him?
marsh garden
that sounds right
but honor things were a recurring pain point in the ulster cycle
where he's trapped between two bad decisions for honor reasons repeatedly
velvet raft
@buoyant summit you might find this rad: Cuchulainn holds an army single-handed at a crossing during the cattle raid. When he's finally struck a mortal blow, he ties himself to a nearby post, and none of the opposing army dare approach until a raven lands on his head and proves that he's dead
marsh garden
which is what makes him the Hound in the first place
marsh garden
<@494599098763313153> you might find this rad: Cuchulainn holds an army single-h...
on top of that: he ties himself to a standing stone so he doesn't fall
so he dies on his feet
buoyant summit
<@494599098763313153> you might find this rad: Cuchulainn holds an army single-h...
I... know a different version of this
velvet raft
Defining Tie: Cuchulainn (terror)
buoyant summit
I know the version where, in a separate incident, the Morrigan conspires for him to eat the flesh of dogs, undoing the magical protection his name grants him
Where he is then ambushed, his chariot driver and horses killed
And then he ties himself to the stone with his own entrails so he won't fall when he expires
The Morrigan does this
marsh garden
i've heard some of that version, but it's not the one i'm aware of as like
buoyant summit
Because he declined to sleep with her
marsh garden
the 'default' accepted ending
buoyant summit
And she is in fact the raven that lands to confirm he is dead
velvet raft
The Morrigan is always kinda involved in his death in some sense, ye
Since the raven is her symbol
I'm not clear on what the variations on it are
buoyant summit
Also in the version I know, after she confirms he is dead the first ambusher to approach his corpse is slain when he shifts Cu's body and Cu's sword flashes with the reflection of the sun as it falls and kills him
🦢 To get back to Exalted I am very tempted to give my Endings Performance dots for storytelling
But her Charisma is uh
1
velvet raft
Nothing forces you to make performance rolls with charisma
Not sure about the charms
I think sid performance uses a mix of charisma and appearance?
marsh garden
they have like two cha-locked charms i think
velvet raft
Is manipulation your high stat?
marsh garden
and a bunch more app-or-cha
buoyant summit
Is manipulation your high stat?
5 >:D
marsh garden
they also have manip perf charms
velvet raft
Aha
velvet raft
I think for manipulation that the outstanding abilities are ... socialize, stealth, and some performance?
marsh garden
performance has the ability to just
fierce star
Hmm. For a combat-secondary sidereal character, how many combat trees is too many? Righ tnow I'm looking at knife + unweaving method, mixing up stbbing and shooting. Am I better off with just going with a knife MA, or do you think sidereal melee + thrown + maybe one non-SMA MA before SMAs come online is too many? I have a tendency to overreach with MAs.
marsh garden
auto-slap a spirit with a major/defining positive tie to her whenever the fuck she wants
with a manip+perf roll
velvet raft
Hmm. For a combat-secondary sidereal character, how many combat trees is too man...
I'd stick with one knife-compatible MA and maybe versatile thrown charms
Since those will both be compatible with Unweaving Method
buoyant summit
Man
I need to figure out so much shit for this character still
I did figure out her name!
Infinite Wild Mountebank
velvet raft
Ebon Shadow's first offensive charm notably has silly synergy with Unweaving Method
velvet raft
Ye
And Ebon Shadow is only three charms to get the form
So it may be worth considering
But there's a bunch of knife styles
fierce star
It was one I was looking at, though I wasn't going heavy into stealth
lesse. Ebon Shadow, Swaying Grass Dance, Rat STyle, Thousand Blades (of course), VBOS, for pre-SMA knife styles
not feeling rat for the character...
I could pivot to more stealth I suppose
buoyant summit
Thousand Blades but one of my knives is this ability I have to make your organs Wrong™
bleak hazel
Ebon Shadow's first offensive charm notably has silly synergy with Unweaving Met...
unrelated but almost-as-good banger here is The Spear Not Held, which lets you use the same ebon shadow charm to utterly waste people with unexpecteds because it doesn't break concealment
costs a fortune, but holy shit
marsh garden
giga unsoakable too
bleak hazel
let me just hit you for 23+extra sux post-soak because you're a normal meathead exalt and have guile 2
velvet raft
And thiiiis kind of thing is why I try to have better Guile >_>
marsh garden
i have accepted my fate
fierce star
What I was currently looking at: Investigate, Socialize, Lore, litlte bit of Larceny and Occult, then a secondary combat suite. I could just grab unweaving out of occult instead of the 'see and interact with spirits' charms... actually what is the sidereal 'interact with demat' charm? I'm probably blind or illiterate because I'm not seeing it in occult
bleak hazel
it's not there, you use Terminal Sanction and you'll like it
it's why it has upgrades for "materialise all the things"
velvet raft
You do have to get Mark of Exaltation on your way to Unweaving Method
But yeah, sids have to do tricks to hurt spirits (but are very, very good at it when those tricks have been done)
velvet raft
Oh, no, you're right
Oh it's Invincible Essence Mantle that requires Mark of Exaltation
buoyant summit
🐰what Sidereal charms would you let work with this?
Because it only has Solar ones listed lmao
Underling Invisibility?
fierce star
... would a knife version of the enlightening abnegation sabers be OP due to the different MA compatibilities?
buoyant summit
I... don't precisely know?
Though I do know there are several MAs that let you do larceny shit
That are compatible with knives and not hook swords
velvet raft
... would a knife version of the enlightening abnegation sabers be OP due to the...
I think it would be fine, really
OPP continues to signal that they don’t think artifacts overruling normal compatibility is really a problem
fierce star
fair
and you don't need a free hadn for unweaving method
I could invest a little deeper in larceny at that point, probably in lieu of more than a dip into investigation
hmm. I'm gonna have a good number of secrets charms, wonder if sorcery's worth picking up
wise ocean
it's two charms of tax minimum, and flurrying shape sorcery and attacks is a whole thing
fierce star
isn't weaver of mystery non-attack?
wise ocean
I mean more the general concept of Just Dipping into sorcery instead of sorcery being part of the main gameplan
buoyant summit
it's two charms of tax minimum, and flurrying shape sorcery and attacks is a who...
You... can't do that though
Right?
Am I dumb, did I misread something?
marsh garden
specific artifacts can do it
wise ocean
specific artifacts and iirc some rare charms
marsh garden
so it's A Whole Thing as in with investment you can make it happen
soulfarer's the one i'm thinking of
and emerald sunset gets something even more cracked
which is permanent "can flurry shaping + aim with no penalties"
+1/scene flurry shape + aim + threaten
marsh garden
nah, but it gets way stronger benefits
reflexively shape sorcery on entering an SSS form
and use MA (incl. SMA) charms on a spell
coral wraith
Two init surcharge when you use Weaver of Mystery to let you flurry in an attack
marsh garden
ahhh, that's the standard "flurry shape with non-attack" charm, yeah?
bleak hazel
the main issue with artifacts that let you use sorcery and martial arts/combat trees together is that you need to invest heavy into evos, sorcery and combat and that's brutal on the XP count
it needs to basically be your entire deal
it's a good deal though
velvet raft
Yeah, being a PF magus is a full-everything investment
coral wraith
ahhh, that's the standard "flurry shape with non-attack" charm, yeah?
Yup
coral wraith
the main issue with artifacts that let you use sorcery and martial arts/combat t...
Yeah, the final Seven Star Alignment charm seems ridiculous until you realise how much investment you're actually looking at
You might be able to combine Flying Guillotine with Metal Storm, but like
That's your whole damn character at that point
velvet raft
Remember that sorcery motes are separate from normal motes
marsh garden
no as in
the charm costs 15m and 2wp
and all of your MA charms are going to cost another bucket
marsh garden
what's the fun in doing that
coral wraith
Lolol
buoyant summit
I do wanna see how bonkers one can get with a PAoC build
'yes, my flying guillotine can use VBoS charms while I'm in-form'
'Fuck you'
marsh garden
time to drop a Total Annihilation with Thousand Blades Strike As One
it won't do anything else
but it will be flavored as a million poles of cosmic green fire falling on them
velvet raft
Oh, @nova yew
nova yew
OMG
fierce star
The Knife Without A Kingdom, Wyld-Touched Starmetal Dire Talon (Artifact ***)
There is a small bordermarch surprisingly far from the borders of creation. It exists within the Scavenger Lands, in the middle of a lake the size of a small sea, where the Raksha warlord Bade Neta rules a small court of soldiers. He lives the story of a god he once loved, though at a distance; Sunipa, War God of the East and patron of soldiers and officers. He dreamed a story where soldiers fought not for distant kings or far-away empires, but for the ideals of war itself. Normally, such a place would have long been assaulted and destroyed by the Wyld Hunt, but Bade Neta is a canny businessman as well as an idealist. He offers his men at fair prices as mercenaries; many skirmishes in the Scavenger Lands have been turned by one side or another buying the services of even just a Scale of Cataphractoi.
This knife belonged to Bade Neta once, years ago; wrought from a falling star and the stuff of the story he lives, it is a blade without a master; forged by dreams of freedom, it holds loyalty only to those that prove themselves to it. When she came of age, he gifted it to his favored daughter. Either she would prove herself and it would keep her safe, or her story would have a rather violent and ignoble end.
Attunement: 5m
Type: Light (+5 acc, +10 dmg, +0 def, ovw 3)
Tags: Lethal, Melee, Thrown (Short)
Hearthstone Slot(s): 1
Era: Rise of the Scarlet Empress
Evocations of The Knife Without A Kingdom
As long as the wielder of the Knife Without A Kingdom has one free hand, they gain +1 parry. Fae, faeblooded, and those with a major or defining intimacy towards freedom, anarchy, or soldiers are always Resonant with The Knife Without A Kingdom, as are those who have slain the leader of at least a size 5 battlegroup worth of people within the last year.
Not sure on what the evocations would look like but it'd be a lot of Killing Important People and Refusing To Bend The Knee To Rulers
bleak hazel
at least make it two knives, feels rough to lose the dual wield bonus
I like the lore though
Exalted Outer Heaven
bleak hazel
oh yeah
fierce star
Yeah, I want knife + open hand vibes, I felt like 'light weapon with medium defense bonus' helps make upf or it? Then agai you can still pair medium weapons.
bleak hazel
as an attunement bonus that's +1 charm parry, so it's almost a medium weapon
to make it non-charm you can either say so or have the effect adjust the weapon's Defence value rather than Parry
fierce star
that's legit. I did consider making it apply to Dodge as well but leaving it charm?
to deal wiht unparryable, thoguh those aren't too common
velvet raft
If you made it just +1 non-charm Defense, flat, I think it would apply to both evasion and parry? Not sure if that would be too much
bleak hazel
I would just give the weapon +1 def so it's non-charm parry
non-charm evasion is harder to come by and dodge trees supply it in greater quantities than melee trees do parry to compensate for the medium weapon bonus, at least as a general rule
so I'd not make it easy to stack more of it
fierce star
legit
I think I'll have a low-ish essence evocation that lets you spend like. 2m? to get non-charm +2 to a clash? To help make up for not having a pair. Probably make it perilous?
tulip folio
Could just go 'while you have an empty hand, this gains the paired weapon bonus to clashes'
As part of the base effect
buoyant summit
```
The Knife Without A Kingdom, Wyld-Touched Starmetal Dire Talon (Artifact ***...
-# DO YOU REMEMBER THE BASICS OF CQC
fierce star
"Those engravings offer no tactical advantage"
Militares Sans Frontiers, but Fae, in Exalted
oh, huh. Sidereal linguistics let you marry your patron maiden.
"Does marrying an incarna count as supporting the current unjust systems that govern creation", the greatest arguement in the history of yu shan, locked by a lion dog after five thousand years of heated debate
bleak hazel
you don't need the paired bonus, especially with light weapon accuracy and medium weapon parry
without the noncharm parry I really do favour it with knives but you have both here
tulip folio
oh, huh. Sidereal linguistics let you marry your patron maiden.
Look, at this point we can safely say that since Sid charms are in-universe things unlike most charms, Venus is a bit concerning.
fierce star
lol
also quick merit count: 3 dot knife, 5 dot divine heritage (need to find a good ess 1 eclipse charm)
someone had a list of all the published eclipse charms right?
marsh garden
someone had a list of all the published eclipse charms right?
it's the first tab in here
fierce star
I'm gonna be unarmored so I'm gonna want a lesser hearthstone, so that's 4 dots for a manse, so that's 12 merit dots so far, so 3 left to spend before dipping into BP. THat's not too terrible. Probably only need to spend six or seven dots into merits at that point.
thanks!
marsh garden
I'm gonna be unarmored so I'm gonna want a lesser hearthstone, so that's 4 dots ...
(manses are 3 or 5 dots, not 4)
merry arch
illiteracy is my favorite flaw
marsh garden
hearthstones and demesnes are each 2/4 for lesser/greater
manses give you both for 3/5
fierce star
oh, right. I thought it was 4 for lesser 5 for greater for some reason
so 3 dots fo rmanse, even better
merry arch
illiteracy is my favorite flaw
illiterate sids are even funnier
merry arch
yes that is why I said that. because being a bureaucrat spy and not being able to read is a fucking hilarious place to find yourself
buoyant summit
Yeah...
merry arch
do you have a retainer or follower/familiar who can read?
fierce star
fae big boss' alligator suit?
marsh garden
what are alchs' options for learning eclipse charms?
do they get a standard Eat Bitch Get Money in like, int or something?
chilly sluice
Theurgic Emulation Converter, in Int
marsh garden
sick, thanks
chilly sluice
it lets you temporarily learn them by committing motes, and then you can buy them permanently as normal
marsh garden
looks good, thanks
i think the "commit for motes" part is also relatively standard?
buoyant summit
do you have a retainer or follower/familiar who *can* read?
...no
I have a Dream Hawk
But
merry arch
even funnier
buoyant summit
I doubt those can read
fierce star
yeah, for aerlier than E3 you gotta be an eclipsoid or have divine heritage
bleak hazel
except for Infernals, who get it at E1 because their eclipseoids don't get it at all, devil-body eats that slot
marsh garden
makes sense
infernals bend a lot of rules
i was mostly looking at this
8 soak for 4m/turn is a pretty decent rate, i think
was seeing if other alch options firmly beat it out or if it was a Good Enough starter tool to look at cramming in some eclipse charms
tulip folio
i was mostly looking at this
Basicly all of Undefeated Granite Warrior's eclipse charms are really solid 'basic-ass charm' charms.
marsh garden
that plus "my alch is now a mecha-lunar" seemed pretty good
tulip folio
fae big boss' alligator suit?
That's pretty decent.
...oh, that feels like it could do some really silly nonsense.
That would get like 'Bear' just fine.
tulip folio
Hell, cats are crepscular predators.
And 'cat' is one of the best combat forms out there.
Alternatively: Predacons, Terrorise!!!
tulip folio
Alchs also have a few 'vent heat' charms
marsh garden
i was just thinking of Thermoconductive Ignition Sheath
but yeah i assume others would work too
bleak hazel
you don't really care about stats when transfiguring as an Alch because you're an Alch, so you can do disgusting death kitty builds instead
wood dragon's claw + cat form + 2-3x TDU and suddenly you have Sid-tier mote efficiency on your excellencies
tulip folio
Small Golden Cat Walks Up, Starts Crackling With Sunlight and Electricity
marsh garden
taste the god particle, you rat
velvet raft
If only alchs knew what cats are
velvet raft
My favorite alch shenanigan is using an Adamant-caste with a Mouse of the Sun
bleak hazel
does a very large and scary rat count as a crepuscular predator? they actually have comparable ambush predator benefits
velvet raft
Since an adamant doesn’t benefit from their own anima
But the mouse can project their anima instead
marsh garden
also noting this down
velvet raft
Also technically the Mouse can come out of the alch’s anima
Since alchs can create anima familiars
marsh garden
that's fun
velvet raft
So to effect yourself with your anima, you turn your anima into a mouse
bleak hazel
it's always hardest when you get right down to single digits
the sheet has a slight error in that it doesn't count the top line of the XP-gained table properly you may want to check that
very easy fix
marsh garden
hm
i think it does?
we're using crucible rules, so the top line of mine is just the 55 bxp that replaces bp
and all the math is lining up as far as i can see
tulip folio
Ferryman
The Underworld is not the exclusive domain of the Neverborn and the Deathlords. Within its deathly fields and seas an endless number of afterlives and necropoli can be found. Corruption and cruelty exists within these lands but no more than they do within the lands of the living.
Founded aeons ago by an unknown ghost, the Ferryman claim their order of undeath forged a pact with Saturn herself, severing themselves from the circle of reincarnation so that they may act as guides for other ghosts. They act as guardians, knights errant and counsellors alike; helping other ghosts shed their regrets and hatreds so that they may pass on into lethe and rejoin the circle of life.
Since the arrival of the Deathlords, this order has become a shadow of its former self. Many were destroyed in the defence of Stygia and the survivors scattered across the underworld. Some may be found striking at vulnerable outposts of the neverborn’s power, while others attempt to lead defences of unclaimed afterlives from the forces of the Deathlords. A rare few haunt the halls of the Division of Endings, using diplomatic visas or membership on minor subcommittees to petition for heavenly aid against the forces of Oblivion, to limited success.
The most powerful tool the Ferryman can leverage, when push comes to shove, is endless drive. While many ghosts become static and unchanging, the Ferryman have an entire afterlife of experience of learning and growth that allows them to eclipse the expertise of many who have only lived a single lifetime.
This read okay? I had to double check that ghosts can exist in Yu-Shan and the answer is 'Yes, if they have a Diplomatic Visa or a position in the heavenly heirarchy, such as the assistant to a god'.
bleak hazel
and all the math is lining up as far as i can see
possibly that was just one of mine then
marsh garden
might've been fixed in a version since the one you had, yeah
marsh garden
```
Ferryman
The Underworld is not the exclusive domain of the Neverborn and the...
i think it's quite fun as a framework
i'm not actually sure the founder would be unknown if it was something that happened on the up-and-up with Saturn, though, would it?
since aiui Heaven has pretty damn good records of official procedures
tulip folio
Well, it's very much a 'we claim it'. So it's designed to be unknown/mythological rather than 'we can definitively prove it' thing.
marsh garden
especially high-profile ones like "a contract with a Maiden"
ahhh
that makes sense
tulip folio
Stygian Retour (15m, 1wp; Simple; Essence 2): The Ferryman calls up a ghostly boat, riding it to the final destination, arriving in a spray of deathly water and shattering timber. In combat, this can deposit the Ferryman anywhere within long range. Outside of combat, it divides travel time by 3 or by 5 if within the Underworld. Anything within close range of its point of impact suffers a one-time environmental hazard with difficulty 4, Damage 4L. Once per scene.
should be Stygian still
tulip folio
Fair
marsh garden
hmm
i would hold off on finishing this charm
because we have the rules on Waterways in the first Riders preview
but not necessarily the finalized rules
tulip folio
Oh? Not seen that yet.
tulip folio
Fair. I'll likely give them something like 'They always count as having a defining sympathy when attemping to call or navigate waterways' or something depending on the final rules.
They won't beat a Real Combat Character and a Nephrack will beat their ass but by ghost standards they're very beat-y.
wise ocean
I was about to say, 9HLs total is a bit squishy for an E3
tulip folio
Same HLs as a First Circle combat demon template, surprisingly!
And first circles are E2-E3
wise ocean
Huh! I could've sworn an ape had one more HL at E2.
tulip folio
Possibly. Apes predate the template.
wise ocean
checked, ape is nine. Well, there we have it. Looks good then.
tulip folio
And yeah, with the offensive/defensive charms - They're actually martial arts charms (Except Stygian Retour). I wanted to make it feel very 'this guy is scary because he's got a lot of experience and skill.
Being the E1 Charms for White Reaper and Golden Jannisary.
fierce star
Hmm. Are they still creatures of darkness or are they in sol's good books?
bleak hazel
You have "greater sign of mercury" here when it should be Saturn
fierce star
Lethe isn't a physical place this time around so probably not
bleak hazel
Also says "baidak" under the fluff and they have baidak Materialise
Stygian Retour is extremely good but it is rather their selling point
tulip folio
Also says "baidak" under the fluff and they have baidak Materialise
Damn my copy-pasting for quick work!
Yeah, I didn't want them to be 'this thing is going to 1v1 a Real Combat Exalt solidly' in the same way a Blood Ape won't generally 1v1 a Real Combat Exalt
But much like a blood ape, they're a Solid Step Above most mundane combatants.
marsh garden
huh, yeah, they probably shouldn't be creatures of darkness or enemies of fate
bleak hazel
eh, enemy of fate probably still applies, that's more of a metaphysical thing and if they weren't EOF it would pretty definitively put the pact into "actually happened" territory
tulip folio
I'd say EoF
bleak hazel
but this seems like enough good guy psychopomp stuff to turn off Creature of Darkness
tulip folio
They're still Actively Defying Going To Lethe
They've got a reason for it
But they're pushing back against the 'natural order'
bleak hazel
this is in the category of doomoid activity that Sunboss is cool with but the Maidens still look at shiftily
tulip folio
So I'd say EoF
If that makes sense?
Devoted Guide: Ferrymen are not Creatures of Darkness, though their oath keeping them from passing onto Lethe keeps them Enemies of Fate. Ferryman treat the Ferryman's oath as a Fetter(As Precious Fetter), despite it being sworn after their death.
That work?
The oath is one of their defining intimacies.
Defining Principle: “Ferryman’s Oath - Until the underworld is empty of suffering souls, I will not rest.”
prime candidates for the Endings ghost deputy badge
tulip folio
Precious Fetter is a ghost trick that makes them very bad summons for Abyssals.
bleak hazel
that sends them to Lethe at the end of their task but you can just end it beforehand
tulip folio
'I summon the ghost and bind it'
'The ghost goes Wait I Hate You and rejects the binding'
bleak hazel
also I didn't realise the primary benefit of Dutiful Dead Conscription
which is that your ghosts are now subject to Zergling Reconstitution
me and my three boys with really big spoons are going to beat you up and if you kill them it doesn't matter
tulip folio
Oh, that's solid. It's a serious upgrade to Precious Fetter as it bypasses Ghost-Eating Technique.
bleak hazel
well, GET still kills 'em
bleak hazel
but -1TN to hit doomoids + 12 dice is a solid whack with all their MA charms and they can keep popping up again
tulip folio
Which is real spammy
bleak hazel
I would actually go for Dutiful Dead Conscription if I had good lads like these to use it on
war ghosts are unfortunately a bit shit
tulip folio
War Ghosts are just...they're like Tier 1.5 mooks.
They're not as mooky as zombies and not as shit but it leaves them in an awkward place
As the investment for a war ghost is so much higher than a zombie
And they're not that much better.
Resolve Regrets (5m, 1wp; Simple; Instant; Essence 2): The Ferryman aids someone suffering from a Psyche effect, mind-altering Shaping effect, or sorcerous curse that affect the mind, as long as it can be resisted with Willpower. This takes a scene of interaction, as the Ferryman rolls Social Influence at a difficulty of the Essence of the character who used the effect. Success halves the Willpower cost to resist it, rounded up, and lets the Ferryman spend Willpower on the character’s behalf. If an effect requires spending Willpower multiple times to break it, this Charm only applies to one such instance.
I also had fun with this for...I like when quick characters have a purpose outside of just Combat Stat Block and 'Look, sending ghosts to lethe mostly involves Acting As Their Psychologist' is fun.
bleak hazel
Mortwrights aren't bad targets, admittedly, since it gives them Materialise
their primary problem is that their excellency equivalent requires them to have higher init and their JB pool is 5, so you don't get much out of them besides enviro hazards and basic swinging
tulip folio
I think the best canon ghost for Ghost Deputy that's summonable and not a specific individual is Renak.
tulip folio
They're Super Hungry Ghosts
bleak hazel
damn, these guys are pretty great, they get artifact claws
Complex Thought: 4-8 dice (Increases with age)
me too, Renak, me too
wise ocean
war ghosts are one of those QCs that are like
these are to make battlegroups out of
bleak hazel
they can't aim worth a damn unless the target is wounded, but they're good in a squad
endings emerald gyrist might use these as goons even without Principle of Motion
(well, they get 10 dice, that's pretty great for mortals)
wise ocean
against an actual exalt you get four renak and onslaught the guy down, works against everyone not a WR stylist
tulip folio
Feather Kills the Lunar Ox looks pretty fun.
bleak hazel
lunar evaporation technique
OK, if I ever bring back Vigil Galyon, Endings ghost detective, I am absolutely summoning two of those at E2
I kind of fucked up his build first time around since I didn't really know what I was doing
tulip folio
I will say: I do think Renak should have Overwhelming on those claws. Like not a 'this is a big change' and more 'this feels like an oversight'
bleak hazel
classic first Ex3 character
tulip folio
As they're soulsteel claws
tulip folio
...oh, I have my old draft manuscript open. I need to get my current PDF
I feel silly now
tulip folio
I like the 9 dice to disguise with double 9s. That's a solid dicepool for a non-exalt.
bleak hazel
yeah these guys are enough to own mortals and make uninvested exalts sweat
marsh garden
and they can hide in their victims' skin
renaks are like the only ghost with sauce comparable to a 1cd
bleak hazel
without Principle of Motion I wouldn't expect three of them to handle a deeb or anything but they're definitely solid minions
marsh garden
but damn do they have that sauce
tulip folio
Their mote pool is suprisingly small but they also get Free Manifesting for combat.
marsh garden
i think that's why it's small
tulip folio
So I guess that's basicly double motepool.
marsh garden
since it's not "show up, gank a bitch but your motes are halved"
hm, actually
did old-ed ghosts ever have principle of motion?
bleak hazel
Dutiful Dead Conscription gives them real materialize for use during daytime
marsh garden
or was that a "demons are special" thing
bleak hazel
at 15 motes
and 15 motes is enough to power their whole charm arsenal all combat
it's not expensive
old Principle was spirits in general, I think
but it was also a way bigger beast
stock a zillion attacks and flurry them all at once
marsh garden
ah
bleak hazel
there's a reason the default busted thing to do with the Eclipse anima in 2e was to learn POM on a real exalt
tulip folio
2e all spirits had principle but 3e has limited it to demons yeah.
'Hey, I'm gunna just attack you 5 times now'
bleak hazel
(not that eclipse anima was used to do non-busted things)
tulip folio
2e Eclipse Anima was used for:
- Shitty things not worth buying
- Things that broke the game
Nothing else
marsh garden
lol
fierce star
Ex2 ghosts also had arcanoi
marsh garden
i didn't realize PoM was an eclipse charm
tulip folio
Like Lunars invented an entire new type of charm just to avoid eclipses stealing shit from them.
fierce star
Which were like, cool thematic ghost powers
marsh garden
ah.
bleak hazel
yeah, it could learn anything
marsh garden
i see.
tulip folio
It's why Lunars had 'Knacks', which are Legally Not Charms but Work Exactly Like Charms.
To stop Solars Stealing Them
marsh garden
i see
bleak hazel
which meant both Sids and especially Lunars had to shove all their fun stuff into Not Legally Charms territory
hellfucked lunars, was merely a pain for Sids but Sids were near unplayable in 2e
tulip folio
Grandmother Weaver is a pretty solid ghost deputy too.
marsh garden
yeah but she's a unique
tulip folio
I like her 'hey, hit or miss I give you -1 to all physical actions until you spend a turn clearing shit'
marsh garden
not a mooksheet
tulip folio
Yeah, she's a unique character though
bleak hazel
2e was also way bigger on Solaroid>all power gaps, so you could learn everyone else's charms but 90% of them were worthless to a Solar
which meant the only ones you learnt were ones that combined with some element of the solar set to do broken things
tulip folio
Any charm another splat had, a solar had it better. Like, solars had better elemental manipulation charms than DB.
bleak hazel
(or Avoidance, which was still good)
tulip folio
Like half the 2e charms that didn't return were like 'The solar is the chosen of the UCS and the rightful ruler of reality, that's why the <Elements/Animals/Fate> bend to his will better than anyone else'
fierce star
Eclipses could learn fucking alchemical charms AND VHARM SLOTS iirc
marsh garden
lol
bleak hazel
grandma has hands
ITTE is an especially nice eclipse pickup even if you can't combo it with anything, just to slap people into crash and ruin their days
marsh garden
yeah i've been staring at those
they're pretty sick
wits + weaving is also cute
i like all the eclipse charms that make you roll weird combos to match their spirit's theme
fierce star
Also for the longest time I didn't realize that divine heritage GAVE you an eclipse charm
marsh garden
oh god
bleak hazel
you have to be a weaver, which makes it quite niche, but it's a neat pickup
fierce star
I thought you had to buy it with your normal charms
marsh garden
merit 5 for "you can learn a couple eclipse charms lol"
i guess that's on-theme for nonsid MA
but MA charms are
a lot more powerful than most eclipse charms
that sounds agonizing
fierce star
Look can you blame me, they charge 4 for an extra -0 health level
marsh garden
true lmao
...although
that actually isn't an atrocious deal in crucible rules
8xp instead of 12, favored charms are 10xp instead of 8
bleak hazel
I admit I had not looked at the abyssal npcs much outside Benny the Dusk and FAFL
also sorry Benny but that caste mark looks like you painted it on for halloween
marsh garden
fuckin
what's his name
rusalka?
his excellency is also very cute
i like it a lot
it's like
3m for 3sux/+3 static
pay some nm to make it 5sux/5static
idr whether it's 3 nmotes or 5
tulip folio
But yeah, okay. I think I'm pretty happy with the Ferrymen for now. Less offensive than Renak but much scarier defensively (Excellency and Revolving Crescent Defense cover a multitude of sins) and then can 1/scene just Drop A Boat on a guy.
...I might make the boat drop a hair better vs battlegroups, as it is AOE
marsh garden
yeah, the tibia mariners
marsh garden
But yeah, okay. I think I'm pretty happy with the Ferrymen for now. Less offensi...
i'd probably give them a slightly better excellency actually
not like
bigger dice necessarily
but make it less than 2m/die
tulip folio
Maybe. It's the same excellency first circle combat demons get but I'll ponder things!
marsh garden
oh is it?
well, 1CDs have principle of motion
so you can probably afford to make it cheaper than "i magdump excellency into two attacks"
wise ocean
you have to be a weaver, which makes it quite niche, but it's a neat pickup
weaving is actually a quite viable craft specifically because silken armor exists
tulip folio
I also did make a note that 'Notably experienced Ferryman (Generally those with Essence 4 or more) may have additional martial arts charms or Sorcery'
bleak hazel
Renak don't even have an excellency, I think these guys are fine
wise ocean
though weaving weapons is, I imagine, rather difficult
probably just bows / rope darts / etc
tulip folio
Slings
fierce star
Love a good slinger
marsh garden
whips, rope darts, slings
wise ocean
I suppose a Live Wire stylist that crafts all their own gear and uses the thread eclipse charms from GW sounds pretty fun, actually
marsh garden
i want more useful utility weirdo ghost QCs
we've got so few
and more elementals, but that's just because i think elementals are v neat
tulip folio
Oh yeah, on the 'non-combat ferryman uses' thing, I added this to the traits:
Ferrymen are considered to have a Defining Sympathy when performing Rites of Navigation.
Helps give them a bit of an edge when attempting those rather high starting TNs.
As Rites of Navigation starts at base TN 10 to open up a gateway
Before any 'I have a useful/relevent situation' reductions
marsh garden
well
it's only D3 base
up to D6 depending on how bad shit is
it's D10 to summon one from somewhere entirely different
tulip folio
Yeah.
marsh garden
the "enter a Waterway" part is pretty easy, the "teleport to the other side of Creation/the Underworld" one is crazy difficult
but if anyone can do it, it should be fucking Charon
tulip folio
I did list their thrown weapon as 'Obol'
marsh garden
...or you could just call the Sea of Shadows for an ez DC3 again lol
tulip folio
So yes, they throw Due To The Dead coins at you at range
marsh garden
i appreciate that for an abyssal, getting to the sea of shadows is always at maximum D4
and it can just be D1 if you smoke the dark evil pack first
anyone with occult can do it trivially, you don't even need sail
just roll your 3 wits
tulip folio
I know they wouldn't really cover it as it's not In Creation but I'd love to see some info on what the deathly side of Autocthonia is like.
marsh garden
maybe the alch companion
tulip folio
Is there any sort of ghost, fae, demon or elemental people would like to see statted up? Something within the realm of first circles.
wise ocean
hm, this might be a little above 1cd, but I think "fae leader" is a missing niche
strategy, politics, etc - the idea of the Goodly Prince or what have you
marsh garden
is she in adversaries? Heirs?
tulip folio
hm, this might be a little above 1cd, but I think "fae *leader*" is a missing ni...
That could be pretty fun. I might play about with some ideas there though I might skip on it being a Raksha.
And make more like...Buck-Ogre Chieftain or something.
bleak hazel
I would also appreciate a cataphract who is more skewed to being a fancy duelist because the existing one is a huge bag of meat with insufficient offense and as such has a tendency to get stuck in a situation where he's unable to hit anything but takes seven millenia to actually die
tulip folio
...and I've realized that my first thought for a Buck-Ogre Chieftain is both A) Very derivative B) Would still be pretty fun.
bleak hazel
he's a good boss for deebs because they can't casually overmatch him as easily but you want something a little squishier and stabbier for celestials
tulip folio
marsh garden
ogre magi are fun
unfortunately, warcraft had some good designs, and hearthstone had good art for a few
velvet raft
Is that unfortunate??
marsh garden
yeah, hearthstone sucks lol
i wish that it didn't have aspects i enjoyed, so i could banish it utterly from my heart
tulip folio
But yeah, I might go 'Buck Ogre Chieftain' (Leader + Caster. Still a bit of a beatstick because it's a Buck Ogre but they are primarily a leader)
wise ocean
beefy caster good, nice inversion to dead squishy casters
marsh garden
i usually played gall
tulip folio
It won't be purely combat stuff, as well...I don't like QCs being purely combat stuff but 'Hey, this guy is a Battlegroup Leader Ogre who also knows Obsidion Butterflies' is pretty intimidating to the average place in creation until the exalts turn up.
marsh garden
yeah, a commander that spams orders on Might 2 BGs and then caps your ass with a Brilliant Raptor is mean
tulip folio
I think Ogres are only Might 1 as Might 2 is demons who have actula charms.
That said: They're the top end of Might 1.
You put some good command dice behind them and that '7 dice, damage 18' hit starts to get Actual Accuracy.
marsh garden
by core, an ogre BG should be might 2
even though they're weaker than other might 2 examples
tulip folio
Oh, whoops. Yeah, nevermind. You're right.
They're the bottom end of might 2 instead of the top end of might 1
marsh garden
because it's deliberately "the armies of the fair folk" (unless they're using like, wyld mutants)
yeah
bleak hazel
might 1 is like, the fake bullshit hologram BGs that cataphracts slam down
and those are still pretty solid because they tend to be really big
tulip folio
I'd be tempted to list Hobgoblins as Might 1 despite being yeah, armies of the fair folk.
marsh garden
might 1 is like, the fake bullshit hologram BGs that cataphracts slam down
funnily enough no
those are might 0 unless in the Wyld
bleak hazel
in the wyld they hurt though, can confirm that much
marsh garden
i did a lot of staring at BG-related qcs for my flag artifact
it's a bullshit move though lmao
10m make an av size 3 BG on demand
wise ocean
core book and early splatbook QCs in general seem to be a bit underpowered offense-wise, I've seen
even benignant is a bit under curve for e4, I've realized
marsh garden
benny kinda sucks because she only has four offense charms
bleak hazel
more than it looks, most of them are two or three charms together
marsh garden
oh do they have all their prereqs and upgrades shoved into the blocks?
wise ocean
eh, some of
bleak hazel
she's not as mean as an E4 PC dusk would be because giving her the full spread of extra action charms and Athletics support means she starts combat, joins battle and immediately spams enough attacks to delete a noncombat PC instantly
which isn't very fun
but she's close
wise ocean
she's not as underpowered as she looks but she's definitely under par for E4 Dusk territory offense-wise
tulip folio
I also like her for just being a Pure Dusk as an NPC can be. She feels very player character in that way.
bleak hazel
this is Perfect Strike Discipline + Hungry Tiger Technique together
Blood-Parched Blade is Excellent Strike + Fire and Stones Strike in one statblock
etc.
Leave No Survivors is Invincible Fury of the Dawn + some other shit
she needs a bit of juice but not a lot of juice
which is about where you want your NPCs to be because if your PCs haven't optimised then she's a perfect boss
if they have optimised you presumably know what you need to give her to make her scarier
marsh garden
icic
bleak hazel
the big thing is that optimised PCs will tend to have a bunch of resting defence/cheap non-charm defence/cheap damage reduction abilities and if you scale all your QCs to punch through those they're just going to look at an uninvested PC and disintegrate them
Solar Melee, a Lunar soakbeast with a stacked multiattack and berserker tech, a Sid with a giga clash CMOS setup or something
and you just can't give NPCs Solaroid Brawl because LMAO
tulip folio
Player Annihilating Punch (10m, 1 WP): Punch a player in real life.
always relevant
marsh garden
wise ocean
hey hey hey you can't kill me I'm just a stam5 isob heavy artifact character I basically can't hurt you at all
MIND HAND
bleak hazel
at that point you need to call the Hollow Knight death squad in to deal with that shit
Cost: 3m; Mins: Thrown 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Dual, Versatile
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
When the Sidereal attacks, her target’s soak is reduced
to (his base Resolve + current temporary Willpower)
and his Hardness is reduced to (base Resolve) against it,
if those are lower. He can raise these values with applicable magic, but not artifact armor. ```
SHAW (and so on)infernals and sids have a lot of tech for just trivially turning soakbeasts to paste
bleak hazel
Sids, Alchs and newer martial arts in general have all had very well designed soakbust tech because the devs have gotten clued in on how annoying it is
SPN is my favourite one because it replaces soak with something that will almost certainly be in the "reasonable" range but if the target is there already it doesn't totally own them
"ah, resolve 4, willpower 5, 9 soak, perfectly normal"
tulip folio
And then sometimes you get to beat the mindless guy and his now 2 soak
tulip folio
Fully loaded Corpse Engines going from 17 to 2 soak is very funny with Shadow Piercing.
wise ocean
infernals also make insanely good soakbeasts even at e1, so I suppose they have both sides of the coin
bleak hazel
Strength 5 wheel boy throws for 19+essence+extra sux and then adds SPN for 3m
marsh garden
actually, on that topic, how would y'all build a lunar to survive your average e1 combat sid?
marsh garden
since they can't deal with unblockable and sid unsoakable tech can't be negated
bleak hazel
Lunars are frontloaded as hell, Sids are relatively backloaded
marsh garden
is it just "kill them instantly first"?
bleak hazel
Full Moon is going to dunk Battles at E1
tulip folio
I'm should ponder a soakbuster for Wanderers as it seems like one of those 'hey, we really want to have one of those' charms. My vague pondering is theming it off 'The weak point in a dragon's scales'. You introduce a weak point to the narrative and reality goes 'Yeah, I guess that weak point exists now'.
bleak hazel
DBT works even against Shadow-Piercing Needle, you have way more motes than them and they can't combine unblockable and SPN on the same attack
neither of those have Melee's good parry and post-soak damage either
just full moon it up and get punching
marsh garden
gotcha, guess i was focused too much on defense
bleak hazel
"oh no an unblockable punch, soak 15, anyway"
tulip folio
After adjustments I do like my current Sid's battle plan of 'I have the Dark Messiah of Might and Magic Boot and I will introduce it to as many people as possible'.
She's got Smashing Kicks and the ability to teleport back to her previous range band at the end of her turn.
She will literally boot your ass up and down the battlefield
bleak hazel
like, it could go either way, and I'd be a bit worried if they had a VBOS + Melee artifact light clash build or something and I wasn't stacked on Join Battle
but in general the Lunar's going to take that fight handily in a straight up brawl unless the Sid specifically hard counters that particular Lunar's deal
(and an E1 dawn/dusk/azimuth with supernal is probably going to kill either of them without great difficulty, because that's how Solaroids work)
marsh garden
well yeah, you don't survive an e1 supernal
bleak hazel
at E2 I'd fight most of my Sids against an equivalent Lunar and it could go either way but at E1 you just don't have the budget or the tech
marsh garden
current plans for the enemy infernals consist of "summon a garda bird and spam spells"
wise ocean
I'm should ponder a soakbuster for Wanderers as it seems like one of those 'hey,...
Introduce Fact, yeah
you can look at the PF2e Field Propagandist archetype, might be some good vibes there between gaslighting and the filibuster
bleak hazel
where's the garda bird coming from?
I thought you couldn't get those with Summon Elemental
if you can I need to reevaluate that spell stat
marsh garden
or wait right those are gods, aren't they
bleak hazel
no, they're elementals, they're just big
marsh garden
or are they too high essence?
bleak hazel
they're E4, yeah
tulip folio
If you want similar vibes I did up stats for Fire Ducks from 2e.
bleak hazel
I suggest Greenmaws, they're decently soaky and grapple with double 8s
marsh garden
ah damn, there really aren't a ton of elemental birds statted up
...there are fewer elementals overall than i thought
bleak hazel
yeah they've always been the redheaded stepchildren of spirits
outside Elemental Dragons, anyway
they also have a lot of QC syndrome where they have really cool moves and then an attack pool the size of an amoeba
tulip folio
Yeah, a lot of QCs feel like they don't get weapon accuracy factored in at all because they don't track decisive vs withering in the attack statline
But that makes their withering swings kinda flailing
bleak hazel
QC exalts on the other hand are rocking around with 14 to hit on both, which is slightly better than a PC could do
marsh garden
hmm, maybe i'll adapt like
bleak hazel
the main issue is that QCs with no dice adders need peak-mortal stats to actually fight combat exalts
where 1CDs ended up in Infernals is really good
tulip folio
...and now I'm making a note 'charms that add accuracy to withering attacks for QCs'
marsh garden
a strix to some lightning bird
bleak hazel
someday I will make a fae pretending to be a sidereal and accidentally ending up with 1e VBOS
marsh garden
lol
tulip folio
Yeah, 1st circle demons seem pretty decent with 'Oh yeah, our base dicepool if we're combat-focused is at least 9'
bleak hazel
where they have a shit dice pool and then conjure their heart grace and coincidentally it's old blade of the battle maiden that gives them a +10 scenelong dice adder on swording
"I just found this lying around after the great hero Chung annihilated like all my boys"
marsh garden
so i should probably look at Infernals 1CDs for spirit statlines?
tulip folio
Meanwhile, with the Buck Ogre.
marsh garden
oofte
tulip folio
'If I ever hit you with this, you'll know it. If'
bleak hazel
9 dice, +2-3 from 1cd excellency and then onslaught from Principle makes them pretty mean
if you backport the infernals dice adder onto blood apes then two of them are a pretty serious problem for most starter deebs
(earth immaculate goes "meh" and tanks it but earth dragon is crazy strong for what it is)
tulip folio
I'll admit, I'd be hesitant to do that because blood apes have a lot of other stuff built in.
Like they have issues
bleak hazel
I would give that to named blood apes
tulip folio
But they do have like twice the charmset of every demon after them
bleak hazel
like, if you have your two blood ape bodyguards of a sorceror they get to be cool
tulip folio
Makes sense
I think I might give that Buck Ogre leader this to help with the accuracy issue:
Buck Ogre Battlegroups led by the Buck Ogre Chieftain are Elite Drill.
So while that's not accuracy dice, it's +2 to command them
And that translates into more accuacy
wise ocean
like, if you have your two blood ape bodyguards of a sorceror they get to be coo...
all my bapes gone will never not be funny to me
bleak hazel
OK, going to go for a walk around the block and then sit down and finally finish all my Exalted obligations, which means writing impromptu replacement sail rules
marsh garden
So while that's not accuracy dice, it's +2 to command them
they also hit like the hammer of god
and i think that's why buck ogres are probably so low accuracy?
tulip folio
Oh yeah, ti's 100% what's intended
bleak hazel
they are perfectly fine chumps for 90% of the things they're going to meet in the world
marsh garden
so a size 1 BG of buck-ogres is going to have that attack be 10 dice 21 damage
bleak hazel
unfortunately the remaining 10% is like, 2/3 of PCs
tulip folio
Buck Ogres are honestly most scary in their defensive aspect.
As they are Parry 5 and can spend 1 willpower to Full Defence + Attack at the same time.
bleak hazel
and it varies a lot between table - some Exalted tables have most of the party with 3 dex 3 fite and 1d6 combat charms, some tables have "noncombatants" with dex 5 melee 5 specialty 1, a daiklave and the first six solar melee charms, like you do when you're not going all in on combat
marsh garden
and yeah sure they won't do shit to your average combat exalt with resting defense 7, and your siddie artist with resting defense 9 is immune to them, but
that's what commands are for innit
bleak hazel
I think as the edition has gone on people have skewed more towards the latter, because, you know, it's not difficult, and QCs have properly adapted
most celestials are going to be at def 7 to effectively 9 before spending (many) motes, since 7 is is just full-pool + stunt without a medium weapon and then 9 is medium plus a basic capbreaker or defence buff like Dipping Swallow
tulip folio
Buck Ogres are in this interesting place where they are almost really scary. Which is party of what tempts me with the Chieftain. It feels like it could be what tips them into 'Oh, right. This guy is 10ft tall and capable of throwing a cow over my wall'
13 soak? Yeah, that's good damn soak
Parry 5? Yeah, for a QC, good parry
Flurrying Attacks and Full Defence at once? Mean!
Actually hitting a target...eeeehhhh...
wise ocean
```Shadow-Piercing Needle
Cost: 3m; Mins: Thrown 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental...
huh, that's actually pretty funny for io, now that I have her character sheet up
11 soak 6 Hardness + ISOB still gets her to what's damage on 90% of things
marsh garden
well, it's also just even more than that
i don't think they intended buck-ogres to exist outside of BGs
bleak hazel
ISOB is in the awkward spot where it really should qualify as armour but technically does not
velvet raft
Yep
marsh garden
fair enough
bleak hazel
stacks with armour, "considered to be medium armour" but explicitly gives natural soak
which is just nonsense
aslo unblockable/undodgeable disarm gambit is a bit silly
bleak hazel
it's way too useful to be thrown out like you generally do to Mists of Eventide but it and Stormwind Rider are sometimes considered a bit ahead of the terrestrial sorcery curve
Rider especially
marsh garden
yeah, i've seen a lot of talk on that
velvet raft
My worldview requires me to only use ISOB without armor or for the control effect
marsh garden
the fact that there are other mobility C1 spells
and Rider is just like
1000000000x faster than all of them
while also being flight
bleak hazel
I would rather have ISOB than Incomparable Body Arsenal, which is meant to be the celestial equivalent
well, ICA gives you more free excellency to your attack rolls and makes you bullshit at grappling, so it peaks higher
but ISOB is way more flexible
bleak hazel
ICA is like "live wire style, annihilate his entire deal"