marsh garden
Secrets of Future Strife (5m)
Breath and Essence Control (3m, ~1wp)
Death Between Heartbeats (3m)
Blade of the Battle Maiden (3m)
Sudden Revelation (5m)
Supreme Violence (2m, 1wp)
Even Blade Form (7m)
Life-Severing Blow (1m, 1wp)
Violet Bier of Sorrows Form (8m, 7 committed)
Grave Cut (4m)
chopping attack (1i, 1d)
Final count: 34m, 2-3wp, 0-1i, 1d
marsh garden
bleak hazel
VBOS form absorbs the committment to Even Blade Form so you only actually pay 1 extra mote for that
wise ocean
conclusion-pursuing approach for 5m 1wp more, so 39m 3-4wp, but actually 3 since you're acting first here
2pt stunt and throw the WP you get from that into WPing the attack too because why not
marsh garden
question: does Breath and Essence control let you spend the aim action on a non-[Even Blade MA] attack?
since it's just...taking a reflexive aim
wise ocean
probably
bleak hazel
marsh garden
oh.
bleak hazel
this sidebar from Sids applies, so compatible MAs only
marsh garden
cringe
i thought for a moment there might be a reason to actually consider even blade 
i just want to slowly wind up my comically large mallet and obliterate somebody's nuts like a forward-smashing dedede player
bleak hazel
even blade is a good MA with truly dreadful compatibility and I find it kind of annoying to use at the best of times
marsh garden
at least there is in fact the comically large mallet artifact that does exactly that
oh, you've managed to playtest it already?
bleak hazel
most of its charms aren't even compatible with the rest of its charms because of how the variants work
marsh garden
that's fast
buoyant summit
even blade is a good MA with truly dreadful compatibility and I find it kind of ...
As the system for whom our favorite style is Even Blade
Imagine how we fuckin feel lmao
buoyant summit
that's fast
🐴He's gotten at least to spectate me using it twice
bleak hazel
it's also just really hard to build with
because of the lack of things you can use with it other than VBOS (good), Fire Dragon (eeh), Steel Veil (lmao) and Single Point (busted as hell)
buoyant summit
Devil Prince as well
bleak hazel
outside Sids (melee versatile all good but some of it does stuff that EB does already) and Lunars/Alchs (actually have an amazing time here because of how they only usually want one MA)
oh yeah, I suppose that helps
buoyant summit
Lunars loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove Even Blade
Radiant Breath combines with Devil Prince quite well for more
Mean socially minded characters
Actually
🦢 I might do RB & Devil Prince for my Serenities build in the sidgame Rhi is running
And just
Be a Bitch
XD
bleak hazel
Lunars and Alchs want one MA only, Solaroids don't get SMA unless they can find a willing tutor and are best at dipping 500 different regular MAs, Deebs really love capbreaking accuracy boosters
Sids are perhaps the worst splat to go for a sword-only even blade build on in terms of smooth progression
marsh garden
god
it makes me so sad that lunars only get ten merit dots
not even +5 for mutations
it takes like 80 dots to make a functional scorpion tail
and then you're out
bleak hazel
they don't get the +5 imperialism stipend because clearly Lunars are blameless and have never declared themselves god-kings of any nations
bleak hazel
But what if I just collect sword styles like Pokemon, though
Solaroids remain best at it because of limited Sidereal Mastery access, although supplementing with Harmony of Blows and similar tricks is definitely far from the worst idea
wise ocean
okay, so, maximal swording at e3:
49m 3wp 2i
26+2 autosux double 9s vs. Defense minus (2-3), average 18 to hit
assuming an initiative of 15 (11 jb + 10 excellency, 2 stunt, 3 autosux) because I don't want to deal with previous witherings,
18 dice+1 autosux double 9s vs. a Hardness counting as 2 lower
assuming best-case scenario for them of only increasing wound penalty by 1 as a result of the decisive attack, 1d of damage more from Blade of the Battle Maiden, ignoring hardness
then Grave Cut for increase wound penalty by 1, 3d of damage more ignoring hardness, double 10s on that roll
average across all of these (whew!) is 14 HLs of damage, 12 of which are from the initial decisive
reset to 11 init, wound penalty increase lasts for the rest of the scene until you're crashed
e3 guy just punched out 1.5 wound levels on Ligier
he did use his entire mote pool doing it but I assume that gets a Good Job from him
anything lower than ligier level and not legendary size / has a perfect available kind of just Explodes, since 12 HLs of damage is going to tick wound penalty more than just 1 and that means also adding even more dice to grave cut and blade of the battle maiden
tbh if you're averaging 18 to hit vs. -2 or -3 on defense, you can probably skip the excellency entirely to save yourself 10m and still hit a 13
I can't think of... any target you'd need an 18 average to hit after knocking prone and subtracting 1 wound penalty from SFS
I also assume e3 because you want to have some kind of functional dawnoid alongside being able to do this combo, but let's be real, you can do this at e1 too with supernal MA - the only essence-calced thing here is your reset init
I guess you can also just blow more motes on adding even more damage through things like athletics charms, whatever, but the real better use is to exchange a withering first - I just didn't want to account for that because I'm lazy
bleak hazel
At essence 1 this is exactly 100% of your motes, so no artifact gear even
wise ocean
I suppose you don't need artifact gear if you aren't withering anyone, since let's face facts, at E1 there's nothing that's living 14HL
the more I think about it the more I think a dawnoid who's just totally nonfunctional in every way but The Combo is kind of hilarious
no artifacts, sleeps in a barn, mortal attributes everywhere but Wits/Per and Str/Dex, 1-2 dots in every ability except for MAs, dodge and awareness
bleak hazel
probably easiest to make this tankable than it is to parry it without Solar Dodge
Optimistic Security Practice + The Centre Must Hold E3 takes this down to 8 levels, but again that's E3
wise ocean
definitely easier to tank it, it relies quite heavily on already having a sizable amount of base init since it's not multiplying anything, though it scales rapidly with the amount of wound levels it's chewing through
and parrying/dodging it is either you have a perfect or You Don't
ah, if you're using a Chopping sword for the decisive, that waives the Chopping init cost, so you scrape together another HL at the end. Nice.
buoyant summit
🦢Would 'while being forgotten' be a valid trigger for WSAV
wise ocean
ah, if you're using a Chopping sword for the decisive, that waives the Chopping ...
very funny: now that I finally get a chance to sit down with sheets, that extra HL is exactly enough to top 5 stam5 ox-bodies into -2 wound penalty
alright time to start shuffling charms around
buoyant summit
What's a good second weapon to take on a sid with panoply whose primary weapon is the forgotten blade?
wise ocean
what's your MAs
buoyant summit
I may go Sid Melee
Or VBoS
The style has admittedly mattered less than the weapon
As the gameplan is 'be the most forgettable Sidereal in the universe and have WSAV up as much as possible'
With the WSAV being 'while being overlooked' or 'while being forgotten'
buoyant summit
Do you mean Throne Shadow?
marsh garden
throne shadow isn't knives
buoyant summit
Oh, there are indeed two
marsh garden
ebon shadow is
wise ocean
oh wait. wait. I have discovered SYNERGY
enemy with a fetter of spectral Essence, manifesting
the strongest Intimacy her victim has that gives him a
reason to go on living. If multiple Intimacies are tied,
his player chooses.
If successful, the gambit chains the victim with the
affected Intimacy:
• He increases his mobility penalty by −1, or −2 for
a Major or Defining Intimacy.
• He must always roll to rise from prone (Exalted,
p. 197), and his mobility penalty subtracts successes
instead of dice when he does.
• At the end of each of his turns, he loses one
Initiative unless he took a full defense. If he’s
prone, he loses two Initiative.```
```The stylist may pay a two-mote, one-Willpower surcharge to enhance Sudden Revelation when used against a lower-Initiative enemy. Her attack inflicts an additional level of decisive damage, and doubles 10s on the damage roll, or 9s if she’s in Even Blade Form. If she uses Grave Cut, its damage roll also doubles 10s or 9s.
Additionally, the stylist can roll her Initiative as a feat of demolition to cut whatever she wishes within close range of the enemy, doubling 10s or 9s as on the damage roll. This ignores Strength minimums. If this changes the scene in her favor, she adds +1 to her base Initiative after resetting.
Mastery: The stylist can roll the feat of demolition before her attack roll to enhance it, either knocking her enemy prone (such as destroying the ground he stands on, or causing something to fall on him) or destroying any cover he was hiding behind.```knock prone on decisive
gambit
Help! I've Fallen And I Can't Get Up!
tulip folio
...is it just me or is the first charm of Throne Shadow really good to pick up for stealth characters even if you're not a combat guy?
Lion Mouse Stratagem
Cost: 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 1
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Mastery, Mute
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The vizier affects the unassuming air of the neophyte and the hanger on, presenting herself as something less than she is.
The stylist gains +2 Guile against an effect that would reveal her hostile intentions or pierce a disguise that makes her seem less dangerous than she is. If the stylist rolls Join Battle in the same scene and uses her first turn to attack that enemy, it becomes a surprise attack, inflicting −2 Defense.
Alternatively, the stylist can use this Charm when she makes a distract gambit, concealing the hostile intent behind her actions. She adds (base Guile/2, rounded up) dice on the Initiative roll. Enemies must succeed on a (Perception + Awareness) roll at a difficulty of (stylist’s Essence + Manipulation) to realize she made an attack.
Mastery: When the stylist makes a surprise attack with this Charm, she adds (base Guile) dice of postsoak withering damage or one automatic success on a decisive damage roll. When she uses this Charm to enhance a distract gambit, she adds her full (base Guile) in dice on the Initiative roll.
It's rare in 3e for martial arts charms to actually improve non-combat stuff.
wise ocean
+2 guile for 3m isn't bad, you're getting a mote's discount over excellency for being more narrow in scope
but a lot of the power of that is wrapped up in mastery
tulip folio
It's also 2 guile for 3m with mute and mute is very good on things that boost guile.
"I AM SUBTLE" - Glowing Solar.
wise ocean
lotus eye tactics is also really good on the narrative level
someone shows up and you pull out the "tell me exactly what this guy's entire Combat Deal is"
tulip folio
I love that the first option for it is 'does he look like a bitch'
merry arch
planning out my charm buys for a story I'm gonna be taking part in as a dodge primordial martial artist nadir caste and, god damn. e2 is gonna be a wild powerspike as a crystal chameleon stylist
shattered crystal rebuke is nuts
wise ocean
crystal chameleon does indeed Fuck
merry arch
my character is also a white reaper stylist and the e2 defensive charm that gives you a fuckton of soak n hardness depending on the number of halos you have is an instant pickup as well
tulip folio
Crystal Chameleon is a great style and I keep wanting to play about with it.
merry arch
we're doing a fresh start n my character is presently ox-bodyless and refuses to wear armor (opened eye of the hurricane my love)
so I'm sitting at a nice 3 soak, no hardness 
fortunately with a specialty my evasion is sitting at a nice 8 with who strikes the wind + opened eye of the hurricane
tulip folio
Cantarella Kiss Intrigue Repurchase + Lotus Eye Tactics is a hillariously toxic combo.
'What is the thing I could do that would hurt this guy the most emotionally and am I enough of a better fighter than him I could get away with it?'
merry arch
fortunately with a specialty my evasion is sitting at a nice 8 with who strikes ...
infernal dodge is very funny and synergizes extremely well with crystal chameleon
tulip folio
...I have to keep reminding myself that Infernals have Mastery.
fierce star
I really do wish infernals weren't as good martial artists as solars but were better sorcerers* (*they are tehcnically better sorcerers via having acutal charms that hook in but you get me)
tulip folio
Yeah, I kinda wish they'd not put Sorcery in Occult. Like, I get why they did it but it would have been a fun nod back to the 2e version ot make 'Sorcery' one of their Universal trees, like the soul heirarchy charms.
wise ocean
hm
coming up with The Combo earlier and doing some reading has made me think about some philosophy of exalted fighting
if you know the enemy has a perfect dodge/block, and they know you have a combo that instantly chops off 15hl, does the fight become just exchanges of lower-investment decisives and witherings as if you don't have the combo and they don't have the perfect?
the true perfects I've seen aren't perilous, so "crash them then Hell Combo" isn't the answer, though I suppose they always have to keep 1wp in the bank to use it
buoyant summit
I feel like Throne Shadow is an incredible MA for this build purely for the three pre-Form charms
none of them rely on attacks
errant knot
Is it gauche to make an exalted character an isekai?
Reborn in another world and now I can become a bat?!
tulip folio
That's Gets 😛
Gets are 'So you're an Isekai character/came from a Lostbelt'
Hmm...considering Wanderers are Wyld and Travel-based exalts, do you think it would be unreasonable to bake that 'look, every splat has a shaping defence' into their base things?
Wyld Walker
Wanderers and their equipment are immune to environmental shaping hazards of all sorts. They are also highly resistant to more targeted shaping effects, adding (Higher of 3 or Essence) to their Resolve as a non-Charm bonus against a Shaping effect. Alternatively, they can add that many automatic non-charm successes on a roll with any Attribute opposing such a Shaping effect.
Against unrolled Shaping effects, they force an opposed (Willpower)roll, adding (Higher of 3 or Essence) automatic non-charm successes on the roll.
For 2 motes, a Wanderer can share this protection with another character indefinitely, as long as they remain within long range of the Wanderer. For 10 motes, 1 willpower, they can share this protection with a number of characters to make a size (Essence) battlegroup.
That's fair enough
I don't know enough about Gets
But also it feels like a good way for a player to get introduced to the setting
velvet raft
I don't know enough about Gets
They're not strictly isekai, fwiw
errant knot
Oh I figured
velvet raft
More like ... they come from realities that never existed in the first place
tulip folio
It's basicly 'you come from a timeline that never happened'
errant knot
They're broadly exiled from fate, right?
tulip folio
Hence the Lostbelt joke
velvet raft
But also it feels like a good way for a player to get introduced to the setting
My new ST is rerunning a campaign he originally did with teenagers as part of an afterschool program, whose solution to new players with minimal lore knowledge was just, "they only have the kind of approximate knowledge of how things work that a bunch of young dynasts would have"
... and then they all exalted as solars
errant knot
Lolol
velvet raft
Most people in Creation kinda don't know very much about the lore, as it were
errant knot
That's a good way to do it too
I've just been using exalted as an OC scaffold, so I'd love to translate it to an actual character
tulip folio
...when we do get Gets and their 'You come from a timeline that didn't exist', it would be kinda fun if the book's artifacts are also artifacts that shouldn't actually exist.
The sword of the one true king...for a nation that's fictional. A Needle Daiklaive when Rapiers have not been invented in Creation yet etc.
velvet raft
He started them off as mortals, which obviously isn't an option for every game, but even a lot of exalts are kinda light on knowing what the hell is going on
bleak hazel
Exalted is very embedded in its setting, so the isekai protag equivalent is usually "random dirt farmer who is now a Solar(oid) and doesn't know shit"
Gets if anything are going to require you to know more about the setting than usual because their powers are to some extent based on the differences between their fake backstory and reality
errant knot
I still want to make an artefact three-section staff at some point. Unfortunately, I lack creativity and understanding
marsh garden
mood
errant knot
Or, put another way, I'm Stoopid.
I should probably play the game at some point before I start making shit
velvet raft
Do what brings you joy, to be tbh
bleak hazel
hm
coming up with The Combo earlier and doing some reading has made me think ab...
generally you dance around in the not-quite-doomcombo space where you try to bait them into perfecting something relatively cheap or not perfecting something that ends up really hurting, most of the point of perfects is making "absurd combination of seventy effects" quite a bad idea
although I have also seen people go into fights, see a 20 mote decisive come in, go "Seven Shadow Evasion" instantly and just pocket the 16 mote advantage there, there are worse ideas
Dead Spouse Defence, Adamant Skin, Heavenly Guardian and so on all also have the advantage that you can use them to take the sting out of a hit that resets the enemy to base, whereas SSE only costs them 2-3 init for missing a decisive so that's usually for more oh-shit moments than the various perfect soaks
tulip folio
Glamourous Overshadowing
Cost: 6m; Mins: Dexterity 5, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Decisive-only, Perilous
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Def Penalty Negator
You've had your chance, get off the stage.
When an enemy misses the Wanderer, they reset to base initiative at the end of the current tick.
Reset: Once Per scene
Keys:
Repetition is not Flattery(Essence 3): The attacker resets to base initiative immediately, potentially ruining further attacks this tick.
Speaking of such things, pondering this charm again. It's not a defence but it makes defending more effective.
bleak hazel
this feels like a less impactful and much easier to trigger version of Unbowed Willow Meditation from Solar Dodge, I kind of dislike it on principle due to just how much of the combat system it skips but that might just be me
would definitely go E3 and maybe stick a willpower on it
tulip folio
nods
bleak hazel
also obviously it scales hard depending on how good the rest of their dodge tree is
tulip folio
I'll have to ponder things then, as they do have a pretty solid defensive tree.
Maybe adjust it to a counterattack? Where if you tag them, rather than draining init back to yourself, you into just tank theirs.
wise ocean
generally you dance around in the not-quite-doomcombo space where you try to bai...
📝 makes sense, I will ruminate on the theory further
buoyant summit
...when we do get Gets and their 'You come from a timeline that didn't exist', i...
Rapiers have been invented! one of the Fae in HDNP has one
tulip folio
...god exalted's tech level is fucking weird. XD
I'm gunna assume that's just some Fae Nonsense.
wise ocean
in some vague nattering I've had about fae plots, since time is irrelevant to them in the Wyld, they just yoink weapons and items that haven't been made yet because the flow doesn't matter
though that was an excuse to make a very elaborate Lancer joke in the case of that plot specifically
tulip folio
in some vague nattering I've had about fae plots, since time is irrelevant to th...
Fae: "You know how we're weak to Iron? I found what humans are weak to: Lead!" Waves M1911 about
wise ocean
everybody loves the Fae
buoyant summit
So
Fivefold Masks and Lies is not
A Fae
They are either a God, or a God-Blooded
So rapiers do just exist
though the blade is wide enough that it's a spada da lato but whatever
marsh garden
So rapiers *do* just exist
that's just kind of a result of fantasy writers not bothering to check when non-gun equipment has been invented
because surely if it's armor it came before guns
and if it's a sword they all existed before Gun Era
buoyant summit
lmao
marsh garden
i blame dnd for everything
buoyant summit
I mean I personally don't suuuuuuuuuuper care
Also in Creation guns have been invented
marsh garden
nah
tulip folio
Well, Firewands. We had guns in 2e but they didn't make the jump to 3e
marsh garden
flame pieces are flamethrowers
tulip folio
As they 'didn't fit'
marsh garden
not guns
buoyant summit
I
marsh garden
they're more gun-shaped magic wands
marsh garden
sorry
buoyant summit
ur fine, just
I find the description of firewands as flamethrowers a bit
suspect
marsh garden
i didn't get that, because i don't consider them a real equivalent
tulip folio
Oh, it's 100% suspect
buoyant summit
firewands shoot blasts of flame, not constant streams
tulip folio
They wanted to have their cake and eat it too
marsh garden
it's a personal peeve of mine
marsh garden
i don't understand the perspective in fantasy culture
tulip folio
You know what I am shocked don't exist in exalted considering the strong 'china' theming?
buoyant summit
A bit stupid
tulip folio
Rockets
marsh garden
that "if there's a matchlock rifle it's not fantasy anymore, fuck you"
tulip folio
Rockets existed for damn ever.
marsh garden
i assume the conspicuous lack there is a relic of old-ed eurocentrism
buoyant summit
that "if there's a matchlock rifle it's not fantasy anymore, fuck you"
WARHAMMER FANTASY BATTLES BY ALL RIGHTS RESOLVED THIS ISSUE IN THE 1980SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS (yelling into the void, not at you)
buoyant summit
JUST
JUST GIVE THE LATE MEDIEVAL CHINAROME ACTUAL GUNS
LEAD BULLETS EXIST
WE KNOW THEY EXIST
tulip folio
Yeah, I get the feeling there's a lot of 'exalted was made in the 90s originally and the average 90s writer didn't think 'Song dynasty' when they thought 'Rockets', they thought 'Modern Military'
buoyant summit
BECAUSE SLINGS USE LEAD BULLETS
velvet raft
Slings also use stones you find on the ground
bleak hazel
lead bullets for slings are not remotely the tech gate for making guns
marsh garden
WHF pretty straightforwardly said "yeah we're like, at the start of guns being powerful and useful without being finnicky, so melee weapons, bows, and crossbows are still all extremely competitive"
velvet raft
Slings use literally any appropriately shaped obect
bleak hazel
I quite like firewands, as an explicit setting statement of "no, you cannot make an AK with solar bullshit, stop trying"
marsh garden
"the elves hate guns, nobody else is snooty"
tulip folio
I actually have a bit of a WHF grumble weapon-wise too 😛
buoyant summit
But they are the last part that nobody's apparently stuck in a firewand
tulip folio
Why are Slings the weapon of underground skaven, rather than the celtic-inspired wood elves? XD
bleak hazel
firedust does not work like gunpowder, you cannot make it propel a bullet by shoving one in there
marsh garden
slings are easy for dirt-poor cannon fodder skaven to use
marsh garden
firedust does not work like gunpowder, you cannot make it propel a bullet by sho...
(except when you can)
bleak hazel
it is explicitly a different thing
bleak hazel
yes, resources 4 per shot
marsh garden
yeah
buoyant summit
do cannons exist that shoot lead balls
marsh garden
some of them
bleak hazel
so yes, you can have your cannon if you want to put the entire budget of a city-state into fuelling it for one battle
this is dumb so people do not do this
marsh garden
harbor cannons can be either fireball obliteration technique or launching projectiles
tulip folio
The true cannon option in exalted: You get a lunar to punch the end of a tube and the ball comes out the other end of the tube very fast
buoyant summit
Okay so how does firedust work, is it too slow-burning to launch a lead or otherwise projectile out a barrel?
velvet raft
I would imagine it's more like naptha
marsh garden
it's fire-element, aiui
bleak hazel
firedust is crystallised fire essence, or at least it was
marsh garden
magical reaction instead of chemical
velvet raft
As opposed to explosively expanding gas
bleak hazel
it does not work on chemical reaction principles, you crush/light it and it becomes fire going fast
it's one of those everything-is-magic bits of Creation that I really quite like
buoyant summit
So it
bleak hazel
same with "your average blacksmith is going to know a couple of small rituals for placating flame cats and other local elementals because otherwise the forge will be mean to him"
marsh garden
i would like it more if it actually let me engage with cool antique guns
tulip folio
I really liked the 2e Artifact Gun Prayer Pieces.
bleak hazel
or a stationary one, presumably
marsh garden
furiously tapping the arknights sign right about now
tulip folio
Where the gun has a small god in it and each bullet needs to be carved with prayers for that god for him to bless it with zoom
marsh garden
it has its own "everything is magic" for guns, but it still allows guns
bleak hazel
I would not like Exalted as much if it had rows of musketmen instead of Realm Legions
buoyant summit
Still
bleak hazel
this is not what it's trying to be
bleak hazel
and explicitly the tech is backwards, a firewand is a much worse essence cannon rather than a proto-AK47
marsh garden
instead of pulling the trigger to fire your rifle, you're pulling the trigger while you do three battle-chants to proxy combustion reactions and accelerate your bullet
and then you can cast spells on the bullet, because you're a wizard
but exalted does literally the exact same thing as every other fantasy setting
bleak hazel
this was also very useful in the 2000s RPG mien where clearly what you do as a super-crafter is make power armour and speedrun an industrial revolution like a bad isekai
marsh garden
"somry guns are the Only Thing that can't be invented :((("
buoyant summit
I suppose it's useful for that but
I think the ST has leave to, outside the game
Smack that player upside the head and just say no
bleak hazel
Exalted in general goes "modern tech is not real, it is going to look very different in creation, the first age was not just 1998 with more gold"
velvet raft
I have no particularly strong feelings about firewands, but I suspect it comes down to this:
bleak hazel
some dumb bits of 2e books aside
the shogunate is like, vaguely industrial but in very different ways
marsh garden
but you can't do the only thing i want to do with a gun, which is horizon-sniping with a matchlock musket instead of a crossbow
i like my ranged weapons for different aesthetics
bleak hazel
sure you can, firewands accept the same range extending charms as any other Archery weapons
velvet raft
Flame pieces exist so you can quick-draw a pistol into a dive roll, without changing the way warfare looks
marsh garden
crossbows are for scrappy rangers, bows are for doing sick backflips, guns are for sniping
buoyant summit
Is there anything in Exalted that describes what it feels/looks like to be shot by a firewand?
velvet raft
Not that I recall, but I suspect it's hot :D
marsh garden
sure you can, firewands accept the same range extending charms as any other Arch...
huh, most of the charms i can think of don't explicitly call out being able to increase firewand range
velvet raft
This is a targedy
bleak hazel
huh, I could have sworn you used to be able to There Is No Wind those
maybe I'm getting my editions crossed again
I know flame weapons are generally skewed more CQC from their range banding
velvet raft
Also, shooting a beam of fire out to extreme range means you have a Star Wars plasma blaster :D
bleak hazel
well, that's silly
but in general I like firewands because they are a grudging step of "oh fine you can have a cowboy gunslinger" not "there are guns now, this somehow does not affect the rest of the world in any way"
tulip folio
I just like rockets and autocthonia. XD
...huh, here is a vague pondering - The average guy in Autocthonia has more access to resources/can requisition a lot more than the average guy in creation despite autocthonia's constant pressure for survival. The 'average populat' is listed as having Resources 1-2. 2 dots in resources is the sort of level you'd expect from a Realm Patrician's Stipend or a famous mortal performer
Obviously, without 'money' it's not immediately transferable/directly comparable but if you need a resources-costing thing in Autocthonia, you're much more likely to be able to get it than in creation.
I guess that's the nature of Mass Production. In Creation, getting a sword means 'going to a guy who'll make it for you'. In Autocthonia, going to a sword means 'going to the standardized sword factory, where they have a storehouse of swords built up for when they are needed'
velvet raft
Autochthonia is cyberpunk, ye
wise ocean
yeah, you're forced to basically melee range people with firewands unless you're Righteous Devil, which is a constant mote tax anyway
it's also why the first evo on my sniper firewand is you always count as having aimed twice if you aim
velvet raft
Also like
marsh garden
oh that's cute
velvet raft
If your basic premise is that you want guns so that you van have cool gun fu shenanigans
Adding big honking columns of fire to the shenanigans ain’t exactly a loss
marsh garden
gun fu is emphatically not what i want out of them, bows are my preferred Weeb Bullshit projectile weapon
velvet raft
Aye, I just think that’s the intent
marsh garden
ah, fair
velvet raft
Like, the iconic gun guy has long been a gunslinger who uses Righteous Devil
Doing flips and rolls and dives and quick drawing
You know something silly? Snake and Solar Hero were the only MA styles in 2E core
marsh garden
that...kind of makes sense, admittedly
solar hero is the solar brawl tree, so it's necessary, and snake is John Wuxia, the normalest martial art in the game, so both of them are necessary for groundwork
but solars aren't like
buoyant summit
I seem to remember there being a 'the sids stole this from the Fae' martial art, does anyone remember what book it's in?
marsh garden
a martial arts splat, really, are they?
they're good at it, because they're good at everything
lament owl
They get mastery
marsh garden
but it's not historically Their Thing in the way their other themes are, no?
bleak hazel
Laughing Monster is Lunars stole this from the fae
bleak hazel
Quicksilver Hand of Dreams is SMA-level fae bullshit but we don't have that yet
buoyant summit
🦢Fuck it would be literally perfect for my Endings
Faeblooded whose wsav is 'while being forgotten' and this shit makes people forget you
tulip folio
...man, I'm going to need to ponder what to do with some of that Fae Bullshit and Wanderers. XD
buoyant summit
...man, I'm going to need to ponder what to do with some of that Fae Bullshit an...
🦢I may be realizing that this Faeblooded Endings with all the fae-like trickery charms may be me tiding our system over for Wanderers l m a o
tulip folio
I guess the Abyssals book SMA did establish that some SMA are more available to some exalts than others.
buoyant summit
All SMAs have been standardized to start at E3, right?
tulip folio
Yeh
buoyant summit
All riiiiiiiiight
First attempt at Exalted homebrew
Quicksilver Hand
(Pray for me)
Huh
QHoD specifically calls out that one of its odd features is it's accessible at a lower level than other SMAs
But I assume that's a quirk 3e would do away with because most MAs (and the Sid Enlightenment stuff) end at E3
tulip folio
You could play about with that but I'd be a bit concerned about starting lower essence leading to 'this isn't really weird enough for a SMA' as E1-2 tends to have less beefy effects.
buoyant summit
Indeed
bleak hazel
2e SMAs were all over the place in essence level, ignore that
bleak hazel
PAOC used to be the "introduction to SMAs" style and work at normal person essence and OSOI used to be stupidly high essence and also the most broken thing ever printed in a white wolf game
now they are both 3-5
so just go with that and stick with usual SMA tree progression of 11-12 charms, since frankly doing that is quite hard enough
marsh garden
you could give it a callback to that by giving it like
a couple extra MA1-2 charms
which PAOC also does
the other SMAs are "one E3, MA1 charm -> 1-2 E3, MA2 charms -> 1-2 E3, MA3 charms -> E4, MA4 form"
marsh garden
PAOC has five MA1 charms
buoyant summit
I do wish that learning a martial art and using it as a prereq for an SMA
Let you use weapons valid for that martial art with that SMA
marsh garden
kinda defeats the purpose of having style weapons, doesn't it?
bleak hazel
grumblegrumblegrumble stop breaking the goddamn rules
buoyant summit
lmao yeah I noticed that
wise ocean
hm, all armor compatible. raised eyebrow
bleak hazel
Idyllic Dreams Palm seems a little cracked with Enlightenment, since you can fairly easily roll like 13-14 sux on a decisive attack and make anyone with less than three or four ox-bodies go honk shoo
no init cost required
and I have no idea how the extra-sux thing on Sedate the Restless works on the Enlightenment mode
buoyant summit
Yeah it seems a bit mess
wise ocean
everything else is aggressively meh for a SMA until you hit inescapable nightmare pursuit and then it just becomes instantly busted
ebon shadow qhod gg
bleak hazel
also just so much shaping tag, half this style bounces off an E1 Integ 1 charm
which is fair for some of it but kind of a pain
some of it is really psyche
tulip folio
...so unironically I think this is too faithful a translation.
3e is a very different game than 2e
wise ocean
this is true
tulip folio
I also feel like Gossamer Understanding sorta falls under 'This is just Being A Sorcerer. Just Be A Sorcerer and do this stuff'. XD
wise ocean
I'm just kind of sitting here looking at the transition point and going "wow, that's a lot of charm tax for making ebon shadow have a -5 penalty on hitting you and a -10 on detecting you plus anti-kite and enter concealment and ambush damage boost"
bleak hazel
I think if you have the ability to get 10+ sux on awareness rolls you can auto-break Inescapable Nightmare, which is very odd
it's not a roll with a bonus, it just gives you 10 sux
tulip folio
'Surprisingly Escapable Nightmare'
wise ocean
either way, it's homebrew so I'm not going to rag on it too much
buoyant summit
lol
bleak hazel
eh, it's a hard roll, but it's odd that it just gives you a fixed value instead of letting you sneak with a bonus
tulip folio
Now, I don't want to dunk on this too much but yeah, I think there are ways this theme could be done better.
...hmm...what do you think the dot value of a merit would be for 'You don't need to sleep/can't be put to sleep'? I am Pondering A Thing.
bleak hazel
Waking-from-Death Maneuver is a) a very cool escape and b) should definitely have a 1/story limit on it
it basically does if you make the very simple ruling that you can't sacrifice something with a charm when it's already gone, but still
gossamer understanding is again very stylish but very confusing because it uses half the craft rules and half the sorcery rules and doesn't seem to pay the costs of either while being a bit underspecified
wise ocean
...hmm...what do you think the dot value of a merit would be for 'You don't need...
that's usually what, an e2 solaroid charm? though that usually provides other benefits
let me check abyssals
tulip folio
Pondering it as a sorcery merit for a sorcery type that is well 'Dream Magic'
wise ocean
ah, e1. not needing to breathe is e2.
so two charms and three dots of abilities is equivalent to what, 4* merit?
pricing those charms as Not Really That Good
bleak hazel
something like that
Sids get it as a single charm buy but that only works if they spend eight hours doing paperwork or research instead
tulip folio
I might knock that down a bit since you only get the benefits of the second purchase, not the first.
Sleepwalker(•••): While you sleep like normal, it does not impede you actions. You can notice an assassin just as easily asleep as you can awake and even engage in combat freely without waking up. You gain +2 Resolve against magic that would directly affect your dreams.
feels like at least a four dot, but I like how it works
buoyant summit
🦢hmmmmm
@bleak hazel For the Faeblooded Endings, should I do Occult or should I do Lore, going for Avoiding-the-Truth?
bleak hazel
depends on your social stats of choice
charisma is good for bureaucracy and medicine plus a bunch of other stuff
wise ocean
if you have tertiary social, cha 2 manip 5 for the derived stats
buoyant summit
Is there a way to fuck with what skill RI uses for Sids, like how you can use Performance for Dodge?
wise ocean
actually, tertiary
take that bonus point and put it somewhere useful
wise ocean
Is there a way to fuck with what skill RI uses for Sids, like how you can use Pe...
no, I don't think so, but what do you need RI for
wise ocean
that being?
buoyant summit
The somewhat standard 'I am a wallflower doing Underling Invisibility to relay intel to the party'
bleak hazel
I was personally going to go manip myself and grab ATTT, since I have two sids and both of them are Charisma with presence + craft
buoyant summit
With the splash of flavor that she has the forgotten blade and the WSAV of 'while being forgotten'
bleak hazel
and having a really good terminal sanction would be very handy
buoyant summit
I was personally going to go manip myself and grab ATTT, since I have two sids a...
ATTT?
Oh
Avoiding the truth technique
I can avoid stepping on your toes, fair nuff
bleak hazel
the only annoying thing on my part there is that Craft is App or Cha for Sids and I am probably physical primary
I suppose I can have this Sid be handsome
buoyant summit
Maybe this character should be Social Secondary...
wise ocean
well, then you don't need social at all
dump social attributes, pump socialize ability, done
you want RI, you're not planning to actually socialize anyone
and then you manip max for Guile
wise ocean
e1-2?
buoyant summit
e1
wise ocean
ah, okay, so str is really irrelevant for you right now, but you will need str5 for vbos sooner than later
why int? are you crafting or sorcerying?
buoyant summit
I have craft for WSAV so far
I kind of wanna see what I can do with Sid Craft?
I dunno
The character feels like she lends herself to the Craft A Social Circle tree
bleak hazel
if you want Serenities back I can always swap again
alternatively we can both play against type
wise ocean
well, stealth-awareness-integrity-craft, per/int/wits... you should be mental primary
bleak hazel
I am probably going high-manip Lore/Socialize/some Stealth
buoyant summit
alternatively we can both play against type
I'm playing a very against-type Endings I feel, or at least one playing with the theme in a fun way
bleak hazel
and then combat
buoyant summit
She's Faeblooded, so she wants to make good stories, and her role is in providing their denoument
Oh wait she's not doing the craft a social circle thing
She's a Fae who wants to make good stories, with heroes other than herself
She's on that 'make bootleg excalibur' stuff
bleak hazel
well, this is fine, but we should probably see what eveyone else does
you seem to have Stealth locked down so if I go Lore and Socialize and then largely stay out of Craft except for WSAV we're good
you may want to pick up the heal charm since my int will probably suck
buoyant summit
I mean I have 'stealth' in that I have three dots
And The Thing That Makes Me Basically Undiscoverable
bleak hazel
OK, I can go for Lore/Socialise/Stealth/fightan
bleak hazel
works well, except we do need someone with a really good Terminal Sanction and that means at least one of us needs to have charisma rather than manip
let's see if the other three can rustle one up
buoyant summit
We're Killing the Silver Prince
buoyant summit
🦢Our other members are Amelia of the Cassies playing a fun twist on a Battles (military intelligence officer type), Briar as our Wheelman Journeys (with Oedanol's, get it?), and my husband who is doing a fairly standard NerdSecrets
velvet raft
I missed QHOD discussion, but I saw someone's headcanon that Rakan is trapped asleep forever due to parrying Saturn's scythe, but continues to be active via his QHOD mastery
Which I think is a rad idea
wise ocean
that is very cool
marsh garden
i assume saturn's scythe was The Button That Kills You in 2e?
wise ocean
it's metaphorical
sids have a lifespan that is very long but Fixed. full stop.
Rakan is the only Sid to ever live longer than their Appointed Time
marsh garden
yeah
but gk specifically used the word parrying lmao
metaphors are only metaphors until you punch them
so i no longer assumed
wise ocean
'cos one of the theories in-universe is that he survived Saturn literally clipping his thread, yeah
(as it were)
e9 sid and maiden stuff functionally is metaphor as combat anyway
marsh garden
i hope gets just utterly refuses to say a single thing about rakan's immortality
not even by implication
bleak hazel
it's not that you desperately need Terminal Sanction on any individual Sid but if five sidereals don't have one decent spirit killer between them you have issues
wise ocean
rakan immortality multiple-choice is my favorite way to go about it, but I do think he should have some kind of rakan-unique secret technique
velvet raft
And Terminal Sanction is really good for teams
Since you need exactly one charm on one sid to make a spirit vulnerable to a whole group
Which is sorta the flipside of not having more basic spirit-punching charms I guess
wise ocean
bureaucracy 3 and one charm shouldn't be that stringent a dip - ah okay you're good
buoyant summit
And a Charisma of 2
velvet raft
When the ninja squad wants to gank a spirit it's not super difficult to find them (Tell-Tale Symphony) or render them vulnerable
chilly sluice
velvet raft
IIRC Red Haze from Presence can also do it?
wise ocean
And a Charisma of 2
well, yeah, the cha guy should be the one with terminal sanction
you don't need bureaucracy beyond 3 if you just want sanction, the +3 dice is enough to force the matter
buoyant summit
I do want Underling
wise ocean
mm, conundrum indeed
velvet raft
Slick Essence Replenishment is a pretty slick grab from Bureaucracy
tulip folio
Underling is great.
velvet raft
realizes that Lore rolls done as part of PAOC count towards slick essence replenishment
wise ocean
indeed, SER + soulfire Good
velvet raft
Although actually that's just Spell-Shattering Palm and Astrology Interruption Technique
bleak hazel
I'm doing an unarmed Sid this time and I admit it's hard not to just go PAOC again
no compatibility problems just go wild
also no forms in my regular MA styles I desperately need
wise ocean
Although actually that's just Spell-Shattering Palm and Astrology Interruption T...
SSP is very good, just sadly situational
but if you're ever fighting a sorcerer it just completely fucks them
velvet raft
Yeah
bleak hazel
the odd thing about SSP is that if the spell was an attack you could already clash it
but it does let you absolutely own all the non-attack stuff
wise ocean
also no forms in my regular MA styles I desperately need
speaking of forms, this has gotten me looking over sid sheet again and wow, thrown form is kind of toxic
athletics isn't usually a super high priority investment for combat characters at lower essence, so kiting is Effective
velvet raft
Yeah that's a strong form
It's funny how Thrown's focus on fighting the undead kinda predisposes them to pick up Medicine XD
(So they can treat Abyssals as undead)
(And also just generally, Foretold Epitaph Epiphany is a wild boost for Thrown)
buoyant summit
Slick Essence Replenishment is a pretty slick grab from Bureaucracy
Sadly I've only the one skill that'd be likely to succeed in giving me good returns
No Lore or Investigation, with Integrity at 2
velvet raft
Aw
buoyant summit
Though
why the fuck do I have Integrity I ain't taking any Charms for it and have Ascending Destiny Mien for Resolve
velvet raft
Sids do have some nice mental defense stuff in Integrity but it all starts at like 4-5
Lore has amazing mental defense stuff starting at Essence 2
bleak hazel
the big one is the one that lets you just toss intimacies out whenever someone tries to influence you with them
tulip folio
I like the basicly entry level 'hopeful intimacies are just passively a long stronger' integrity one
bleak hazel
which lets you cap the level of failure from any given social-fu attempt at "one influence roll" because Mara can persuade you with Major Love (Mara) once but then you blow it up
wise ocean
(And also just generally, Foretold Epitaph Epiphany is a wild boost for Thrown)
I was like "huh, why didn't I look at medicine when I was making necrosid, he's big on Death" and then I realized "ah, right, all the good stuff here is e3+ if you're not a healer"
tulip folio
I kinda wish Sids got more hopeful intimacy stuff. Integrity for them is split between 'I have big hopes' and 'silly rabbit, hopes are for kids' but the latter gets a lot more charm support than the former.
velvet raft
I was like "huh, why didn't I look at medicine when I was making necrosid, he's ...
There's also some excellent undead-killing moves at lower essence
Including the one that automatically kills any mindless undead
As Misc has pointed out, this hilariously includes shit like Thousand-Corpse Goliaths
bleak hazel
you become ghostbuster 5 million but it doesn't do much else
if you have Descending Endings Horoscope you can use that + prophecies to selectively extend that to whichever guy you've marked for death
at which point Invocation of the Storm-Following Silence becomes an Init + 5 agg damage hit against Resolve, which is really mean
especially if DEH makes the damage roll with -TN
velvet raft
But yeah, at essence 3 you suddenly get to treat all enemies of fate + all people marked for death as undead
bleak hazel
Invocation is especially funny if the Abyssal shows up with a huge zombie horde because all the zombies evaporate and he takes the entire damage pool
due to not having any non-mindless undead to split it with
zoop
tulip folio
Ascending Destiny Mien is pretty cool. Could let my sid replace most of her integrity with one of them but...well, she's kinda shit at most of the secrets skills too. Even with dots, 'Dex, Per and Int' are her worst stats and that's basicly 'all the Secrets skills are tied to one of these' 😛
...I'm pondering a silly thing for Wanderer App as a secondary thing for a 'change a stat used'
marsh garden
As Misc has pointed out, this hilariously includes shit like Thousand-Corpse Gol...
...so the malus of "a TCG needs a ghost to pilot" is actually an upside against sids...?
tulip folio
Razor Tongued Socialite Invocation
Cost: —; Mins: Appearance 3, Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Wanderer knows some of the most important rules for survival in the cruel courts of the fey: Every weakness must be exploited.
The Wanderer can use Appearance instead of any other Attribute for Judge Intentions and Profile Character. When she uses her appearance to add bonus dice to a roll, she compares it to the lower of the target's resolve or appearance.
Full Mean Girls Charm
velvet raft
Ye, five charms in is a bunch
velvet raft
Those five charms are all good, though
wise ocean
zero misses in the charmset except for flight of mercury
and even then flight is good against a guy you've knocked and is trying to run away from you
bleak hazel
VBOS has five E1 charms because it's each maiden as seen through the lens of Endings
but yeah it's a tad clumsy to fit sometimes
buoyant summit
The problem is this Endings build has 12 charms already and idk what to cut, if any
Or if I should bite the bullet and take Melee instead
bleak hazel
this is by far the least cracked Blade of the Battle Maiden has ever been, by the way
in 1e it was a scenelong +10 dice to stabbing, in an edition without excellencies
in 2e it just flat out gave you an invisible starmetal daiklave to hit people with
buoyant summit
```
Razor Tongued Socialite Invocation
Cost: —; Mins: Appearance 3, Essence 1
Ty...
This is fucking brutal and I love it
'I got that shit on and you do not'
wise ocean
The problem is this Endings build has 12 charms already and idk what to cut, if ...
do you really want to sword people that badly in a mental primary build at e1
actually can you even get form at e1
bleak hazel
you can
buoyant summit
You can
wise ocean
huh, figured all forms were e2. til
bleak hazel
meanwhile I'm weighing up my three combat trees and wondering which to go into at E1
most forms are actually E1
bleak hazel
I only want 5 charms in Snake but almost all of the usefulness weight there is on Snake Strikes The Heel and Armour-Piercing Fang Strike so I am simply not going snake at E1
marsh garden
xp after character creation
bleak hazel
Mantis and Brawl
and then I fill in those with E1 XP and shift to Snek at E2
once that's done I have the aggregate 10 MA charms to take SMAs and I can go finish Mantis whenever
velvet raft
Mantis has some cool stuff
bleak hazel
Snake exists to give me striking that doesn't suck, so the E1 stuff is whatever
its clash is an amazing defensive option and APFS gets me through soak
(APFS sounds like a tank round now I think about it)
buoyant summit
It
wise ocean
it technically is
wise ocean
except without the discarding sabot you don't really need the fin
bleak hazel
armour piercing fin stabilised no sabot, just a solid chunk of metal with some wedges on it
buoyant summit
Yeah
wise ocean
so it's a bit of a muchness
bleak hazel
anyway it hits about that hard
bleak hazel
press button to punch through 11 soak
deeb removal device
really expensive but it works
wise ocean
at e1 you can be about as good at sword as I'd expect an e1 phys secondary sid to be without form
marsh garden
looking at a rat lunar rn, wondering if it's worth it to push swaying grass up to teeth-in-the-grass strike for surprise attacks
i don't really have a good grasp on how good or bad swaying grass is
i assume bad because nobody talks about it
bleak hazel
you probably want Harmony of Blows because it's insanely good
marsh garden
but it seems fine
bleak hazel
(on the Sid that is)
bleak hazel
Swaying Grass is good it just has awkward prereqs
buoyant summit
Then that's just two charms into VBoS
bleak hazel
since it's a dodge + performance style
marsh garden
my problem looking at it is that there are like
bleak hazel
crazy ambush negator in there
wise ocean
Then that's just *two* charms into VBoS
fortunately, those two charms are superb
mastery sfs and mastery blade
a surprising amount of early vbos power is just those two
buoyant summit
I won't have Mastery yet tho?
wise ocean
ah, while in its form.
buoyant summit
lol
wise ocean
well, mastery blade is really the big one there, you can usually just go first with sfs anyway without mastery
mercury is situational as explained before and an easy skip, and jias is only really worth while in form
so yeah, harmony + blade + sfs is pretty solid at e1
buoyant summit
I also don't have the dots for both 3 Melee and 4/5 VB
velvet raft
You can also pick some of this stuff up later :P
buoyant summit
velvet raft
If you're doing a less fighty sid, you can be a less fighty sid
wise ocean
drop stam, drop cha, drop athletics, drop larceny
buoyant summit
That last one is non-negotiable I'm afraid
wise ocean
damn
wise ocean
you do seem to have a bit of an e1 sid moment here
buoyant summit
You will pry Name-Pilfering, Shell Games, and Masque from my cold dead hands
wise ocean
considering how constrained this setup is and how poorly set up your stats are for it, someone else is going to have to be the terminal sanction bot
which frees up bureaucracy (and a charm)
buoyant summit
Underling
wise ocean
mmmm.
buoyant summit
<XD
wise ocean
well, point about TS stats holds, someone else can take it
gets you a vbos charm
harmony is also versatile so you don't need all 5 in melee
bleak hazel
E1 sids are basically always constrained on charms because they really want to get all their dips in
and they have a lot of amazing dips
velvet raft
Doing Terminal Sanction off of a dice pool of 5 is ... not necessarily awful but if somebody else can do it they should
bleak hazel
stuff opens up very quickly when you start banking XP and churning out 1 MA and 1 regular charm every two sessions
wise ocean
yeah, I think "if you want to get craft, save that for when you're picking up XP in game" should also work
you want your combat engine online from chargen
bleak hazel
if all you want in Craft is WSAV and Mending Warped Designs, take the two at chargen and leave it unfavoured
I'm Serenities so I am better situated to do big crafting if we have to
wise ocean
my general rule of thumb is "will you be starting a craft project session 1, and will it be more likely than you getting into a fight that session?" for prioritization when constrained
velvet raft
With Bureaucracy 5 I think the charisma for TS is relatively more negotiable due to the way sid excellencies work, but otherwise it's kind of tricky
wise ocean
back in the day I made builds that really, really sucked and that's cos I kept trying to leave off combat
bleak hazel
as an E1 sid with sid excellency I think you're good to leave off a couple of combat charms for unfavoured dips E1 to maximise XP efficiency
buoyant summit
if all you want in Craft is WSAV and Mending Warped Designs, take the two at cha...
I kind of want the make Excalibur charm
bleak hazel
just know what you're dipping and what you want to expand on later
buoyant summit
To 'make a good story for another protagonist'
wise ocean
yeah, the dots are the rough part since she needs melee 3 vbos 5, she only needs three combat charms
buoyant summit
I actually turned out to have the spare dots
shaved two off melee, used BP for the rest
wise ocean
dumping athletics gets vbos 3, then melee 5 to 3 gets vbos 5, cha 2 to cha 1 means per or wits 4, and personally I'd also dump sta for more mental but that's me
probably as clean as you can get it without dropping something Necessary For Vibes
dropping sanction is 1 of the 3 charms, so I suppose you'd just need to find the other two
wise ocean
TTS has a prereq (mark of exaltation)
wise ocean
but yeah at this point pick your one remaining charm as whatever, grab your literacy tax, and then spend your remaining BP on either stam if that'd get you up an ox-body bracket or per for read intentions or int for craft since you seem like you'll be doing that a lot
ah, wait, you have no socialize
probably good to get that
buoyant summit
We do have a Serenities
I am not in craft for the 'craft social circle' stuff
I'm in it for the 'craft a story' stuff
wise ocean
I just mean for read intentions
buoyant summit
Oh
wise ocean
but if you're not doing that as much as initially considered then athletics is fine to keep where it is
bleak hazel
I will probably have pretty mediocre int but honestly I am eating a lot of attribute prereqs so maybe I just suck it up and buy some att dots later
buoyant summit
My Guile and Resolve are both 6 which I think is big funny
Ascending Mien go brrrrrrt
bleak hazel
what with needing 5/5/3 combat, good social stats and a mix of int and wits
wise ocean
ascending mien Very Good
buoyant summit
I wonder if at higher levels there are any charms where like
looking into a Sid's mind, or trying to
Is dangerous
Tho that's prolly in Integrity
bleak hazel
also re: earlier talk about our Exalts in resident evil: Fight-castes to non-Fightcastes
bleak hazel
looking into a Sid's mind, or trying to
that's not in many places due to the rareness of outright mind-reading, but if you want to fuck over anyone who scries on you you want Stab the Seer's Eye
one of the most entertainingly atmospheric charms in Sids but one that is barely picked due to being high requirement and niche
wise ocean
also re: earlier talk about our Exalts in resident evil: Fight-castes to non-Fig...
graves, hearing someone can't parry a chainsaw bare-handed: ah. bit character. second act death
buoyant summit
graves, hearing someone can't parry a chainsaw bare-handed: `ah. bit character. ...
GOD
DOES HE ACTUALLY TALK LIKE THAT?
marsh garden
holy peak
buoyant summit
🦢This character would have a field day fucking with him
Cuz she takes her being an Endings and being a Faeblooded as synchronous parts of her identity
She wants to make good endings to stories
The grand dramas of Creation
wise ocean
Yes, as have designated protagonists. I am well aware of this. Your intervention underscores the matter.
buoyant summit
Ash this is the second time we've made characters that come at similar concepts from entirely opposite sides
And I love that for us
XD
velvet raft
Suddenly realizing that Midnights get Resistance as a caste ability, so Chains could be Midnight
buoyant summit
OKAY
SO
I may go pure melee, and say fuck VBoS
purely
Because there is literally a 'Wyld-suffused' sorcerous initiation
wise ocean
well you do have everything you'd possibly need for sorcery
buoyant summit
@bleak hazel You're getting your wish that we're making a swordsid that isn't using EB or VBoS
wise ocean
*you'd want lore but you're getting that from vbos
buoyant summit
Monkey's paw; it's so we can be a sorcerer
wise ocean
isob also lets you totally dump stam
buoyant summit
isob?
marsh garden
invulnerable skin of bronze
although that doesn't work, does it?
since she's still going to be running martial arts
just not vbos
wise ocean
she just said she isn't
bleak hazel
that's not monkey's paw, sorcery is good
wise ocean
sid melee
velvet raft
isob also lets you *totally* dump stam
Eventually
marsh garden
oh, that's dropping every MA?
bleak hazel
even blade can wear medium armour anyway
marsh garden
huh, i thought you were still running even blade
wise ocean
this character has never had EB
velvet raft
Well, I guess if you’re actually using it, then sooner
marsh garden
wise ocean
fey initiation is very good, I use its Derangement shaping for one of my infernals where the designated Defining Derangement is her going ham on the I AM A QUEEN
marsh garden
am i getting her confused with another one of rhi's characters
wise ocean
yes
marsh garden
i see
look they're all VBOS-using sidereal swordswomen
(except now that this one isn't the first of those)
wise ocean
that said it's a bit clunky to constantly stunt derangement like that unless it really is fundamentally central to someone's character, so I would recommend the emotions one instead
can get a lot of motes out of that, especially on a sid team
wise ocean
there you go, clean and characterful pull
buoyant summit
(No, she isn't a borderline raksha, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)
wise ocean
it's a bordermarch, rhi, terminology
buoyant summit
l m a o
mfw the talent to 'disguise' myself as an enemy of fate is maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe just letting the mask slip a bit too much~
tee hee
eto bweh
etc
marsh garden
oh shit
i'd never actually looked at that Scarred By Nightmares ritual
that's a really fun one
bleak hazel
if you actually go for "welp I'm betraying creation to the fae" I'm immediately using all my grapple prowess to instagib you by the way
otherwise, go wild
marsh garden
for the derangement ritual, i'm a bit unclear on smote stacking mechanisms
can you repeatedly stunt for mote smotes with that?
wise ocean
yeah
marsh garden
huh
buoyant summit
if you actually go for "welp I'm betraying creation to the fae" I'm immediately ...
Oh, nonono
Jokes
This is jokes
wise ocean
it's just awkward to make it sound natural unless, like... say, an infernal god-queen... your derangement is central to how you act and think
normally if it's obvious you're just throwing it in to throw it in, your GM will stop awarding stunts
marsh garden
i'm probably gonna pick that up for my dusk because "constantly suffering from Derangement (Whispers are a bad time)" is like
involved in a solid quarter of his current interactions
buoyant summit
🐮This might be my Dusk's initiation in my Aby game
As in, another player is playing a Dusk
wise ocean
giving yourself a Defining Derangement that's whispers-related surely has no consequences. Your GM will do nothing with this knife
marsh garden
my GM isn't doing enough with it :(
also it's only major madness
i just have four-dot Whispers with Consumed By Whispers
and my initiation was "getting tossed into the labyrinth for a couple weeks by an older abyssal when i asked to learn magic"
buoyant summit
mfw this build has two Caste abilities with no dots
bleak hazel
that is quite normal
wise ocean
I do this all the time
bleak hazel
see: every battles
wise ocean
integrity is good to have one dot in eventually purely for that one very nice positive tie to enemies of fate charm
buoyant summit
'I avoid other people getting a rise out of me by being a smug fae bitch, actually'
bleak hazel
well, fae-vibed bitch
wise ocean
makes it harder for them to get their teeth into you in social combat by instilling an I Am Pleasant And Nice tie and working their way up
marsh garden
damn, Necessary Betrayal Attitude is good
sids have some pretty ridiculous permanent charms, huh
buoyant summit
well, fae-vibed bitch
fae-vibed, yes
bleak hazel
it is Charm, so it's mostly just a big discount, but it's a really big discount
except against Rakan Thulio
wise ocean
necessary betrayal attitude is one of those things I always dip on sids even if I'm ADMing
marsh garden
if you're in front of thulio i think you probably have bigger problems
marsh garden
but dodging limit/penalty magic and getting +2 perma-resolve to literally everything forever is
waow
(against positive ties, at least)
buoyant summit
if you're in front of thulio i think you probably have bigger problems
🐰Maeve has a fantasy with the E5 version of her character where she gets on some smug shit about two Endings masters of Quicksilver Hand meeting making for a good story
marsh garden
buoyant summit
She still gets pasted probs
dense verge
and you say he wouldnt be A Wesker
buoyant summit
I... mean this in the most 'I don't mean this in the insulting way this word is often used' way
bleak hazel
Thulio is at least Essence 9, I suspect he is the strongest claimant to the 2e elder title of "approach very carefully or you will be a smear on the ground"
buoyant summit
Graves is not fruity enough to be a Wesker
Graves chews the scenery in a very different way to a Wesker
bleak hazel
Anys Syn is about as fighty as he is apparently but she's way too nice
wise ocean
and you say he wouldnt be A Wesker
he avoids this in the narrowest of ways by not monologuing in combat
buoyant summit
Yeah, exactly
He's all deadly focus
Wesker quips, monologues about how the hero can't beat him, he's too powerful
dense verge
you know what, fair
buoyant summit
I HAVE THE SERUM, REDFIELD
dense verge
i do think mori still regards him as someone that didn't know how to live in the first place
wise ocean
Anys Syn is about as fighty as he is apparently but she's way too nice
this reminds me that after sunderdome I was looking at all the other ligier-tier NPCs and realized for some reason they all have components that makes them not really capable of soloing. very sad
buoyant summit
Thulio is at least Essence 9, I suspect he is the strongest claimant to the 2e e...
🐰Hence why Maeve would get pasted
wise ocean
especially fafl. very sad I can't have the e5 sepulcher/white reaper graves vs. fafl fight
bleak hazel
Lion is soloable but you have to be able to survive the huge withering burn from Radiance
wise ocean
How do you deal with the constant reflexive withering clashes?
bleak hazel
clash better
wise ocean
I assumed FAFL has two battlegroups in the scene to farm up white reaper halos and sepulcher off of and my whiteroom had him just eventually clash me to death anyway once I ran out of motes
bleak hazel
he also doesn't get as large a discount on his Excellency so he has to actually pay to go all out there
oh yeah he is very good with battlegroups
Ligier can also clash you forever
wise ocean
though I may have been going too high in letting him get a Defining mote discount out of it on the excellency
wise ocean
oh yeah he is very good with battlegroups
surprisingly he never got to actually order them, they pretty much only existed as WR fuel
because Enemies Like Grass Bottom Text
marsh garden
the lunar inability to deal with ligier just infinitely clashing with a billion dice and defend self was what made me stall out on figuring out a toon
wise ocean
i do think mori still regards him as someone that didn't know how to live in the...
you honestly aren't that wrong on that - I'm keeping my lore cards close to my chest but I don't think it's spoilers considering what's OOC-public knowledge to say that the man Graves is today is shaped by the society he lived in and the opportunities it did or didn't offer
dense verge
would want a cage match between the two but alas
marsh garden
it's wild how they just do not get a single normal-ass unblockable (or even undodgeable) anywhere
there is the obliterate button, though
bleak hazel
Lunars are a mix of wild raw stats and sometimes slightly lackluster-looking offense because it has to deal with being combined with infinity animals as well as Every Martial Art
wise ocean
with a lunar I'd probably just grapple and savage ligier to death tbh
either that or kite ranged poison
bleak hazel
I say Sometimes because Octopus and Spider Barrage sure is a charm
(on the other hand their block unblockable is strangely shit for some reason)
buoyant summit
This build is gonna have two melee charms at chargen holy fuck lmao
wise ocean
would want a cage match between the two but alas
it shall remain the subject of Imagination, but it is very cool therein
coral wraith
I say Sometimes because Octopus and Spider Barrage sure is a charm
Holy shit that's a good charm
bleak hazel
FIVE WITHERING ATTACKS
(technically you need an upgrade for that but lmao)
sometimes I'm so glad that Rival's build hard gates multiattack spam
buoyant summit
Other than Harmony, what's the next melee charm one should pick up?
wise ocean
Other than Harmony, what's the next melee charm one should pick up?
clash one
or reflexive aim
bleak hazel
I like Indomitable Shieldbearer but that requires you to go sword and board
or just board
if you're going pure melee then yeah, Fateful Exchange is really good
buoyant summit
Inner Eye is the reflexive aim and is E2
bleak hazel
but for pure melee you want to finish the trifecta of HOB, Meditation on Violence and Impeding the Flow
then whatever you like before Form
personally I really like fateful exchange and smiling at the damned
press button for agg damage, really nice
wise ocean
which one is smiling at the - ah, no healing
bleak hazel
it's also RED FLASH, which is very stylish
4m for agg damage and -1TN on the damage roll
prereq is MOV for more damage dice
very nice package
buoyant summit
What I was thinking was MOV, Smiling, and Fateful
wise ocean
very good
wise ocean
it's fine, you have isob
bleak hazel
you want your onslaught negator but you can grab that immediately afterwards
wise ocean
and presumably some noncombat spell of some description
buoyant summit
I haven't picked a spell yet lmao
wise ocean
you're a character going into combat who doesn't have to worry about MA armor compatibility, you're taking isob
the question is what the other spell is
buoyant summit
And I dunno if I want isob, because Ionas (another headmate) is thinking about brewing Quicksilver Hand which I would then take at E3, which can't take armor
I would be taking MotSE at E3 to learn an SMA
wise ocean
it's going to take a long time for you to get to SMA, all of which you could be using ISOB for before retraining out of it
buoyant summit
Fair...
bleak hazel
what ISOB is good for there is that you just take the control bonus
which is +Essence soak when not using the spell
so at the time you're using E3 SMA that's still 3 permasoak
extremely good
well worth the xp even if you aren't ever casting it
wise ocean
yep, if it's your control it doesn't even matter if you can't cast the spell anymore because of SMA
bleak hazel
ISOB is kind of wild
coral wraith
Combine with soakrock and it's just like having artifact armour anyway
wise ocean
isob on my heavy artifact stam5 infernal turns every attack that isn't a gigadoom dawnoid decisive into like one damage, it's genuinely incredible
coral wraith
Plus, by E3 you can probably requisition silken light from The Serenties Quartermaster if you bully them enough or have a good enough reason
wise ocean
isob counts as medium so it breaks it anyway, sadly
bleak hazel
Stam 5
Silken Armour 5
Soak Rock 2
ISOB Control 3
Soak 15, it's like I'm a normal human wearing artifact heavy
wise ocean
but like Misc and I said before it doesn't matter if it's your control, you just stop casting it at the start of each day
bleak hazel
well, you can't have it up forever unless you want to look like a fucked up malfean statue all the time
but in anticipation of trouble, sure
bleak hazel
it making you look like a fucked up malfean statue is genuinely a balance point so you're still going to look pretty freaky
my Abyssal has a bone version that makes you look like a bleeding ivory statue
wise ocean
oh, absolutely, but not all Bronze On all the time
buoyant summit
Yeah...
The whole point of this build is to be
unnoticeable
Even while stabbing you
In open combat
coral wraith
To be fair, much easier to do that with a Sid
marsh garden
my Abyssal has a bone version that makes you look like a bleeding ivory statue
did you do anything special with its mini-charms btw?
or just hard reflavor all mechanics identical
wise ocean
not really anything to change with the mechanics, it's a classic for a reason
necromancy just has to shuffle around the look
marsh garden
i suppose
if i was whipping one up i'd want to make the charmlets like, slightly different to match bone/soulstuff/tumor vibes tho
marsh garden
fair
i've got to figure out a good justification for actual soak on my dusk, so i've been shopping around
silken armor is armor so it's out
and there aren't really any non-armor artifacts with defensive benefits in that way to steal, because uh. that's what armor is for
wise ocean
it making you look like a fucked up malfean statue is genuinely a balance point ...
realizing that sorcery really is infernal, not even because of any especial aptitude, but because looking like a fucked-up malfean statue and abiding by esoteric taboos and derangements is just what they do normally. No change
wise ocean
i've got to figure out a good justification for actual soak on my dusk, so i've ...
resistance, explicitly not armor
flesh like marble etc
marsh garden
yeah those are just mad expensive
wise ocean
less expensive when you apply a 5m discount for no armor attunement though
marsh garden
working my way up to the unarmored solar tree (as sad as it makes me), but i've got other things to nab first
iirc armor's 6m actually
unless that's just heavy?
wise ocean
5, 6, same principle
marsh garden
sorry
buoyant summit
🦢So my husband is making a Secrets using 1k blades
And wants to smack people
With books
Should Rhi just stat them as Caesti?
marsh garden
war fans would be reasonable
buoyant summit
Oh duh
marsh garden
artifact books with combat evocations are going to be odd, though
he'll need to do a lot of bookbinding himself
buoyant summit
lol
marsh garden
at least the starmetal will be tame
buoyant summit
He may be Cool Enough that he just wants them to be Reinforced Tomes Of Knowledge
buoyant summit
That
is me capitalizing my sentences for Emphasis
I meant like
He may just wanna use artifact books
That're like
Not 'weapons'
marsh garden
ah
velvet raft
I see the vibe
Like, describe them as powerful tomes flying around generating energy fields and blasts and whatnot
Aesthetically more wizard-y
Just using Thousand Blades to accomplish it
buoyant summit
Sorta
bleak hazel
Bullshit of the day: with an E1 charm and a defining intimacy of bravery, a Sidereal can use a wasp as a relevant combatant
16 dice to attack, 5 overwhelming, with a venom option
you do need to spend 8m 1wp at start of scene to fire up Field Mouse Rider and IHIH for this, but you get a flying mount out of it as well as a secondary attack w/ onslaught penalty
and the ability to do sick kung fu by stunting acrobatics off the moving midair leverage point that is your magically enhanced, near-invisible bug-mount
downside is that it's only Eva 6 and Soak 1 so it is bonkable, best make it a wasp-god so it respawns
tulip folio
Hmm...what's people's thoughts on Tulat’s Tread (Sidereals)? Passage-Erasing Step looks really good as an entry charm.
prisma sun
Bullshit of the day: with an E1 charm and a defining intimacy of bravery, a Side...
Doing this does get you sued by Octavian though
bleak hazel
his wasp is much larger and nowhere near as good at martial arts
bleak hazel
Hmm...what's people's thoughts on Tulat’s Tread (Sidereals)? Passage-Erasing Ste...
very nice artifact with some really good moves, shame I never make anyone who gets good use out of Iron Boots
tulip folio
Yeah, I keep being tempted to maybe adjust this character to be an Iron Boots Kicker (Though that would cut out a lot of martial arts options).
As they seem very fun
That or steal the first charm for my homebrew to go 'Behold, the wanderer anti-Heaven Thunder Hammer tech' 😛
wise ocean
what are iron boots compatible with, anyway
prisma sun
Presumably every style that uses unarmed?
wise ocean
That or steal the first charm for my homebrew to go 'Behold, the wanderer anti-H...
new splats are coming out with explicit anti-HTH tech, so you'd be good there. I stole an Infernals one appropriately reworked for a scythe evocation, and I know Abyssals also has one somewhere (albeit less good)
tulip folio
They're compatable with almost nothing.
bleak hazel
falcon, I think
tulip folio
Now I personally think they should be compatable with almost all unarmed styles but the devs clearly disagree. XD
bleak hazel
the moment I sat down to make an unarmed build I suddenly realised why artifact unarmed was so expensive
because they're about the only thing stopping the game atomising on contact when you can combo everything and as such I can suddenly add 4 scenelong defence and a -3 hit penalty to my Sid for 10m 1wp and zero actions
and that's just on defence
frankly the fact you can do it with a sword anyway using melee enlightenment is wild, but at least then you can't just sit down and start grabbing random martial arts whenever you have a problem
prisma sun
This is why I spent 5 dots of artifact on Drifts just for "gloves that count as MA weapons for every MA"
bleak hazel
Honestly even that would be a bit cheap if he wasn't 50% NPC
All existing artifact punch effects are stuck in E4/E5 package deals that lock out other MA forms to some extent
Bundling effects like that is an underrated balancing technique
buoyant summit
This is why I spent 5 dots of artifact on Drifts just for "gloves that count as ...
I've grown to like Drifts more as the campaign's gone on
long suffering Journeys who needs to wrangle a bunch of other Sids where somehow none share his Caste
prisma sun
I do really wanna do a fight
fierce star
Hmm. Actually, pondering if Secrets is the right caste for my Professional Rumormonger Sidereal. Her whole thing is equal parts 'Find out people's secrets, whether or not they're true, and make sure the right people learn those secrets so everyone can live in interesting times and fun stories' and the aforementioned 'was raised by fey big boss in fey militares sans frontiers, so is very keen on soldiering and soldiers'.
tulip folio
...I'm also realizing that by not having Castes, I'll need to adjust how Anima flaring works for Wanderers.
As they don't have caste marks XD
buoyant summit
...I'm also realizing that by not having Castes, I'll need to adjust how Anima f...
Some fundamental, wide-sweeping sense of wrongness seems appropriate
For the levels of noticeability
Literally 'my Wyld Hunt spidey sense is tingling'
tulip folio
I was thinking I'd replace the caste mark with 'signs of being fae'. Pointed ears, faint glamour etc
It's hidable but those who know what they're looking for go '...is this a Raksha?'
buoyant summit
🦢Oh yeah, I need to figure out what my character being Faeblooded looks like
bleak hazel
I admit I have a preference for Fae stuff that isn't "this is an elf" but Exalted fae do keep going around looking like elves
tulip folio
While I make no secret of my love for Classic Sidhe stuff XD
...actually, that would be kinda fun to do up as a creature for exalted. Cu Sidhe as a Big Fae Dog sorta like how we have a Big Death Dog familar option.
buoyant summit
I admit I have a preference for Fae stuff that isn't "this is an elf" but Exalte...
There is that one God-Blooded who we swore up and down was a Fae, but he's not
Look at this fucker
They are so Fae-coded, and similarly focused on finding juicy gossip and good stories
That my character has an RD specifically to be friends with him
bleak hazel
I believe he's one of Myra's
buoyant summit
Nope
