Exalted

[velvet raft]

It's very interesting that gets seem like they'll be able to change castes with great effort

[buoyant summit]

The one exception with current edition rules x3

[velvet raft]

Not sure how I feel about it

[bleak hazel]

ah here we are

Sid list for Agents

Ludall, Ura, Kejak, Green Lady, Dogara, Kijamano, Holok and probably one of SITOS or Strike-the-Heart are all E5 or Elder essence

[prisma sun]

Oh wait is the companion out?

[bleak hazel]

no, this is just me going through the snippets we know and cross-referencing with my own knowledge of Sids in general

all we know for Sid companion is "sometime this year"

[buoyant summit]

🦉This chat is inspiring me to Not Be Bored Anymore and make that one Swordsid who goes melee into Emerald Gyre

[velvet raft]

Yeah, yeah, the time sword, we've all seen it

[buoyant summit]

You are literally the one who suggested it to us when we asked what Exalt Ciri from the Witcher would be so hush xD

Wait shit no that was Ash

[velvet raft]

(This is a The Good Place reference)

[buoyant summit]

ADHD strikes once again

Oh

[velvet raft]

The time knife

[buoyant summit]

We assumed it was that refere-

[velvet raft]

We've all seen it

[buoyant summit]

Wait that's the actual whole reference?

We've only seen 'Yeah yeah insert generic object/trope, we've all seen it'

We did not know the object in question in the show was the time knife lmao

[bleak hazel]

one thing you do have to do when going into Emerald Gyre is grab some Melee and take Orchestration of Conflict

go wild with whatever else

but OOC is basically core to the style working well

(some light sorcery would also not go amiss because two tomescu as bodyguards stack onslaught real good, it's a style that heavily incentivises having friends)

[velvet raft]

It's Michael, a demon whose true form is a kilometer-tall fire squid, responding to a human who has just seen the true shape of time

[buoyant summit]

Ahhhh

[buoyant summit]

Ciri has no summoning magic

[velvet raft]

"Time ... it's a knife, and ..."
"Yeah yeah, the time knife, we've all seen it"

[bleak hazel]

well then she's a bad sorceror by Exalted standards and you should fix this with First Circle Demon

[buoyant summit]

She's

not a sorcerer by Exalted standards

At all

[velvet raft]

The Good Place treats its unseen cosmic background elements mostly as a source of humor

[buoyant summit]

Her entire powerset is Sid charms

It's just that everyone else in the Witcher is a mortal or a sorcerer

[bleak hazel]

power budget of sorcery: 10% army-slaying doom powers, 80% First Circles, 10% Bigger Circles

[buoyant summit]

Her most magically impressive ability, imo, is her ability to just

teleport

At will

Constantly

and theoretically for any distance as long as she can visualize her destination

Her dodge is teleporting

[bleak hazel]

the thing about Exalts versus most fictional mages is that a lot of basic effects in other media are really high-grade for Exalts but Exalts have a lot of conceptual bullshit powers that basically say "no, stop that, come down to my level so I can beat you with experience"

shaping defence really does go brrr

and general insane hypercompetence in any field of human endeavour goes a long way

the best midrange teleport in the game remains Celestial Sorcery though

[prisma sun]

Anyone got a good charm template

[bleak hazel]

the best longrange teleport is Greater Sign of Mercury, that one is total bullshit

[buoyant summit]

Powers wise she's likely a Journeys

But if we want to be 'source faithful'

About transplanting her

She's an Endings

She's an Endings Endings, to the point of her first arc denoument in the games being bending a prophecy about the end of the world to her will as its center

[bleak hazel]

Exalts are so enmeshed in their setting that I strongly suggest trying to line the powers up rather than the exact placement thereof

[buoyant summit]

Tru

[bleak hazel]

unless you're being really boring and just making Solar Goku, of which I have seen a few

[buoyant summit]

We are saying she's very Endings though

In that her bending that prophecy is part of her powerset

As 'Lady of Space and Time'

[bleak hazel]

I will be honest that's a shit title

"Lady of Everything" - get out

get some real thematics, boo

literally every Sid did the "taking my own spin at the prophecies about the end of the world" thing during the Usurpation, although most of the lore about that is 2e so we don't really know how it worked this time around

[buoyant summit]

We disagree, but would be interested in seeing an attempt at coming up with a title meant to convey 'I am the latest inheritor of an ancestral magic that lets me traverse the universes and flow of time'

That isn't

Rather Generic

[bleak hazel]

this is the main problem with dimensional bullshit magic, yeah

[velvet raft]

Heir of Reality

[prisma sun]

what's the average mote cost for artifacts

[bleak hazel]

weapons are 5

[prisma sun]

ty

[bleak hazel]

light/med/heavy armour is 4/5/6

[velvet raft]

NGL, you can always turn to Homestuck classpect format for suitable snappy cool titles

[bleak hazel]

basically nothing varies that, I don't think there's a single piece of human-equippable arti armour or weapon that has a nonstandard attunement cost outside of some of the corebook ones that have additional commitments as their attunement bonuses

[velvet raft]

Maybe Reality isn't the ideal word but if she's the inheritor then Heir of [Snappy Word] is good

[prisma sun]

I have begun work

but I have realized I haven't drunk anything all day

so I should probably run and get something to drink

[velvet raft]

Aye

[buoyant summit]

🦉I'm rather taken with the idea that her title may convey an

[velvet raft]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BBEash80MUu4Q4IiPjn0O3G75r-ptKYu3tLvXUc5lvk/edit?tab=t.0 If you want to copy any of the formatting I did on this thing, feel free (not much to copy but it might be useful maybe)

[buoyant summit]

unmooredness?

[buoyant summit]

🐴'it would have been developed by a Chosen of Secrets known as Robin' oh you motherfucker

[velvet raft]

Yeah, I started thinking about this as Robin Style

I haven't touched it in a while but it was gradually shaping up to be (mechanically) about hazards

[prisma sun]

Okay important thing to start out with

What weapon qualities are for Positive, what are for Negative, what are for Ties, and what are for Principles

[buoyant summit]

God that immediately sounds so fucking cool, Voy

I wanna say Lethal might be for Negative?

[prisma sun]

well they're all swords

[buoyant summit]

But that prevents certain tropes like being willing to kill for what are 'good' ideals

And yeah, true

[prisma sun]

I think it's going to be

[buoyant summit]

Make the Principles one Flexible

To represent the fact you're excising yourself of a principle, an inflexibility

[prisma sun]

Tie: Piercing
Principle: Reaching
Positive: Chopping
Negative: Flexible

woops

there we go

[wise ocean]

• smashing negative
• flexible positive
• disarming ties
• piercing principles

[buoyant summit]

chopping piercing is fuckin hilarious

The Most Sword To Ever Sword

[prisma sun]

I think I'd go with Chopping instead of Smashing

if only because they're ALWAYS Swords

[wise ocean]

fair, works for thematics either way

[bleak hazel]

smashing is considerably more useful than any of the others due to the way the special attack tags work

but yeah, thematically odd

[wise ocean]

it's odd for swords, but for negative I was like "this is a weight, a force of contempt or hatred or what have you"

[buoyant summit]

This is probably a stupid question

Maiden-on-the-Shelf Enlightenment would let you use a normal daiklave for this art, correct?

[velvet raft]

Yes

[prisma sun]

My logic was:
Piercing Tie: "The love and hate you have for others will always find it's way into your heart, no matter how hard you guard against it"
Reaching Principles: "Ideals will always grasp for others, to be spread and propegated"
Positive Chopping: Love drives one to self-sacrifice, to push beyond their limits.
Negative Flexible: You cannot protect yourself from hate. Those who hate never truly stop doing so.

[buoyant summit]

Interesting if thematically dumb (MotSE being able to subvert the Martial Art, not the thematics Voy just proposed)

[buoyant summit]

THAT WAS TO THIS NOT WHAT VOY SAID

FUCK

<XD

[velvet raft]

The Enlightenment charms basically exist to allow you to treat non-MA sid combat trees as MAs for the purpose of SMA

Because without it, all of those combat trees would be almost fundamentally inferior for locking the sid out of SMA

[bleak hazel]

Enlightenment universally says "fuck you I do SMA with my favourite weapon now"

you can use Obsidian Shards with a bow

[velvet raft]

The big thing is that the enlightenment charms still don't let you mix with any non-SMA

[bleak hazel]

which has one potential death combo that costs 7wp straight and deletes almost anything

[velvet raft]

Even in the case of a shared weapon

[prisma sun]

Oh good, no single point chicanery

[buoyant summit]

And you must take it once for each SMA, right?

[velvet raft]

Ye

[buoyant summit]

That you wish to use

[bleak hazel]

yes

[buoyant summit]

Ye

[bleak hazel]

but it does merge all of them for that purpose so now you can use Obsidian Shards and Charcoal March with the same bow

which is officially hysterical

[velvet raft]

Yep

[buoyant summit]

But yes we would never make a MotSE build with the style Voy is making because

That sounds fucking boring

[velvet raft]

(You could already use those two together because knives)

[buoyant summit]

For what the art is trying to do

i.e. 'fuck you I made a sword out of my love for a mother who does not remember me'

[bleak hazel]

Sid Melee does go fucking hard though, do recommend trying a pure melee build out at some point

[velvet raft]

The sid normal combat trees are great in general

[buoyant summit]

Misc... idk how to tell you this my friend but you are asking a system of 8 people who all love martial arts movies to make a character in the 'We all can fuck at martial arts' splat

[velvet raft]

They are good enough that you're not going to feel bad for being the Brawl Guy, instead of the MA Guy

[buoyant summit]

Who isn't a martial artist

[bleak hazel]

it's a martial art, it has a Form and everything

all sid combat abilities are basically kung fu

[buoyant summit]

Okay that's not a bad point

Hm

[prisma sun]

I was thinking of making the style that you can dual-wield intimacies

however one must be positive and one must be negative

[buoyant summit]

We will do that build after we make the Melee into Gyre one

[bleak hazel]

Rival's entire deal is "I know two styles and I move back and forth between them with total fluidity despite them being partly incompatible" and one of those styles is Sid Melee

[prisma sun]

*the form

[coral wraith]

All Sid combat trees are pseudo-MAs to the point they have Form charms and seamlessly flow into any SMA you want, yeah

[buoyant summit]

https://youtu.be/Tgz75rMLXB0?list=TLPQMjYwMjIwMjakRpfjFu0Esg

Voy this is sounding extremely sauced

[bleak hazel]

also when I say "pure melee" I do mean "melee and then an SMA" because that's basically what sid combat ability builds are

[buoyant summit]

Oh, then like

[bleak hazel]

which makes them really versatile

[buoyant summit]

That's our current hypothetical Ciri build's plan

[velvet raft]

Ye

[prisma sun]

hence the keyword

[buoyant summit]

She's Melee into Gyre

[prisma sun]

Versatile

[velvet raft]

Versatile charms are rad but you do miss a lot of the absolute best stuff

[bleak hazel]

Brawl has most of the real gold as Versatile, Melee is missing a couple

(namely Impeding The Flow and Serenity In Blood)

[velvet raft]

So there's still a strong reason to take the full style

[bleak hazel]

still often worth taking them for emergency use

[prisma sun]

Is it overpowered if I make the Heartblades medium weapons

[bleak hazel]

no

[velvet raft]

Lots of MAs use medium weapons

Are you saying because they can be use with unarmed stuff?

[wise ocean]

my evil final stage sid plan is osoi+golden janissary+sid thrown+emerald gyre with throwing spears

[velvet raft]

y no Crystal Chameleon

has spears

XD

[wise ocean]

requires investment to get everything out of, and everything else is taking up a lot of space even at e5

[velvet raft]

Ye

I know it's just my favorite style

[bleak hazel]

maxed out Rival has Crane, Sid Melee, PAOC and then one-charm dips into Fire Dragon and White Reaper

VBOS to form would also be neat but is very expensive since that's a lot of charms

[velvet raft]

I think at this exact moment my favorite sid BS is still centipede + chameleon + black claw + PAOC

[bleak hazel]

Fire Dragon on that build is just fun

I spend one charm to get fusion blades that totally ignore almost any withering defence in the game

[velvet raft]

If I somehow get to play Red Evening Sky ever, I will be asking the ST if I can take a Charm to do Black Claw w/Appearance

[bleak hazel]

you can just punch clean through Aegis of Invincible Might or Wound-Mastering Body Evolution

[wise ocean]

golden janissary feels really weak on its own but you can do some interesting things with it if you start throwing at people

[bleak hazel]

some of the early charms are decent

I'd stop before grabbing all the late stuff

[velvet raft]

"It's a secret technique, Anys Syn made it up for her or something, I dunno"

[bleak hazel]

I need to name the fusion combo something other than that because it's not a very Exalted word and it definitely deserves a cool handle

two of the most basic techniques in fairly normal martial arts combined by a true master gets you white-hot cutting flame that tears through any defence

[wise ocean]

nah, I mean the capstone

[velvet raft]

Universe-Dividing Ignition?

[buoyant summit]

Is there a way to combine a normal MA with an SMA, and use that MA's style weapon?

[bleak hazel]

also works on fists, so anything that sounds like "slice" might not work

[buoyant summit]

Or do you need MotSE

[bleak hazel]

not unless the SMA shares that form weapon

[prisma sun]

Cost: -; 1m-5m, 1 Intimacy
Mins:; E3, Martial Arts 5
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: 
Duration: 1 Scene
Prerequisite Charms: None
The martial artist pulls forth a blade from their heart, made of the memories they have experienced so far. Once formed into a Heartblade, those memories and emotions fade and dull in the soul of the user. 

A Heartblade is a medium weapon, using mundane stats if the intimacy was Minor (in which case this Charm cost 1 mote). If the intimacy was Major or Defining, it instead is an artifact weapon with two weapon qualities based on the type of intimacy.

Tie: Piercing 
Principle: Reaching 
Positive: Chopping 
Negative: Flexible

For example a Negative Principle would be Flexible and Reaching, while a Positive Tie would be Piercing and Chopping. 

The Heartblade is aesthetically influenced by the intimacy it is formed from. Nostalgia for a home village may produce a simple straight sword with a straw wrap, while ambitions for kingship may produce a green-and-gold saber.

While formed into a Heartblade, an Intimacy cannot be invoked in any other way. It cannot be targeted by social maneuvering, nor can it be used for other charms or resisting social influence. The artifact can only be broken with sufficiently powerful magic, and if so the intimacy is automatically degraded 2 steps. ```

charrm 1

how's this look

[velvet raft]

As long as two styles share the weapon they're being used with they can be freely combined

For SMAs exactly the same as for MAs

[buoyant summit]

This is hot

[bleak hazel]

I feel all of these should be Balanced, since that's the sword quality

[buoyant summit]

I wish so bad this was official lmao

This is so fucking cool

[prisma sun]

Oh true

[velvet raft]

MotSE does not open this up to non-SMAs, however

So you can do Melee and SMAs, or you can freely mix MAs with matching weapons

[bleak hazel]

I would also suggest "degraded one step" just to avoid having major character deals eradicated by one artifact breaking punch

[velvet raft]

But not both

[prisma sun]

I wanna make it dramaaaaaaaatic though hrm hrm

but yeah

that's probably for the best

[bleak hazel]

you're meant to dual-wield these so I'd suggest waiving the cost for weapons after the first

the 5 mote tax is basically for having artifact stats at all

and if you have four arms you should be able to pull out four intimacies and stab people with them because that's sick

[velvet raft]

You might also want to throw in a "no dual-wield penalty" even though that's a rule nobody actually plays with >_>

[prisma sun]

Oh the form is going to include that tax already

[bleak hazel]

there isn't a dual-wield penalty

there's an offhand penalty

but dual-wielding includes your main hand so you're fine

lmao, core

[velvet raft]

Thousand Blades makes note of it, in any case

[bleak hazel]

so does Steel Devil, it never actually comes up

Rival is literally the only character I have ever seen that cares about offhand penalties

and even then I could juggle my way past it with a little cheese but I took 1-dot Ambidextrous for the aesthetic

[buoyant summit]

Combine Thousand Blades and this style, become an emotionless, unmoored robot every time a fight starts

(I know that doesn't actually work with how both styles are written)

[prisma sun]

I think it does actually

[velvet raft]

... yeah TB has a cutout for that sort of thing

I almost forgot about it

[bleak hazel]

signature weapon: soul

[prisma sun]

This is in fact sick as hell

[velvet raft]

You do need a normal weapon

[prisma sun]

However you then immediately fold to social combat

[bleak hazel]

yeah, you draw one sword and then your entire heart

[velvet raft]

Which is a sick image

[bleak hazel]

peak samurai movie

[prisma sun]

https://youtu.be/b8fKDXWH-kI?si=avSRFc1Duv4YcpJQ

[velvet raft]

I'm imagining Shaman King vibes

[prisma sun]

I'm imagining

[wise ocean]

make a decisive against a guy, blow him up, do agg damage to everyone in medium of that guy (you're really far away from all of these people because Sid Thrown), and then you immediately teleport to Close of everyone and Decisive all of them at reset init

you do this in emerald gyre of aeons form to flurry two MA attacks
one of those being Black Shards from OSOI

so your signature combo is "I built up to enough init to kill one guy, I then blow up like five or six guys simultaneously"

this takes about fifty billion motes, but I happen to also think it's really cool

[prisma sun]

"I will give everything, every last memory, every last drop of love and hate in my body to kill you"

[velvet raft]

Draw your sword and then 8 spectral arms all draw their swords

[prisma sun]

"I am not a person. I am The Sword."

[velvet raft]

Or four spectral arms, I guess

[bleak hazel]

Rival's anima banner is already "terracotta army of people who are all just different Rivals", don't make me want to change up the build

[buoyant summit]

Oh my fucking God I forgot about this

OHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO

[bleak hazel]

(I would never change up Rival's build, I have a whole bunch of bullshit tricks lined up for him that I haven't used yet)

Battles is so easy to do stunts for

[buoyant summit]

This is maybe the only build we'd consider for TB because otherwise we hate 'infinite blade works' type bullshit

Because those vibes are incredible

[bleak hazel]

also nomination for eventual Rival/Graves fight theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt6gc3XMC9E

[velvet raft]

Hah, Robin's anima also spawns a whole bunch of dudes, except they're just kinda walking around aimlessly

[prisma sun]

Infinite Blade Works but every time you shoot a sword you forget your mother's face

[velvet raft]

I love TB

[prisma sun]

This is definitely the vibe of someone who masters this

[buoyant summit]

🐴Okay I know we also abbreviated it this way but

mfw we profess our feelings towards tuberculosis

XD

[bleak hazel]

that's a different martial art

[buoyant summit]

CITRINE POXES BAYBEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[velvet raft]

I also love Citrine Poxes of Contagion

[prisma sun]

The only problem I have making any charm tree in Exalted

is that I have to make the Math Ones

That aren't really cool flavor but are just the necessary Statistical Benefits you need

[bleak hazel]

I am always willing to consult on the maths

[velvet raft]

This is the Rat, who is 95% finished for Green Sunderdome https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xQKK8W0L-JVDPQ2sbr852PKM0zLfhzNsWpu_OP8DUyU/edit?gid=655784735#gid=655784735

[bleak hazel]

you can get so much flavour out of the maths

Exalted even sold itself on getting setting commentary out of the maths in previous eds

[bleak hazel]

access denied

admittedly they needed Jenna Moran's full power to reach the heights of borgstromancy they did

and then people got mad at sidbook

but when aren't people mad at sidbook

[velvet raft]

Oh?

[prisma sun]

I probably will need to do so

[velvet raft]

OH you meant sharing

Sharing turned on

[bleak hazel]

that did it

wow, that's a lot of mixed-up MA charms

please hit sort on that before giving it to me for the finale

ty

[velvet raft]

It's not quite ready to go

But the Rat ideally uses rat, crystal chameleon, and cpoc to make Ligier very, very unhappy

[prisma sun]

Hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Shining Point already assumes an Iajutsu stance

can't use that for the form

Oh, wait no I got it

more universal

[velvet raft]

You can, they did an even blade version that's iaijutsu

[prisma sun]

No no, hold on

[velvet raft]

Which IMO is an author's saving throw vs. single point

[bleak hazel]

I would be disappointed if it was iaijutsu because I like swords but I hate sheathing your sword midcombat for no reason

[velvet raft]

Yes, battojutsu is very cool but putting the sword away to do it again is silly

[prisma sun]

"The martial artist holds their Heartblade out wide, seemingly exposing themselves to attack. However every step is calculated, and never are your memories far from your heart."

[velvet raft]

Like the central thing about battojutsu is it's the art of surprise attacks and/or defending yourself from surprise attacks

It's meant for social situations

[wise ocean]

hm, after reading emerald gyre form more closely, I can't actually combo black shards with it

but emerald gyre has a multiattack that's phrased as "a single attack"

[velvet raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF5DDLi9ikM

[prisma sun]

I do wanna make sure I make this not exclusively Japanese

[velvet raft]

Yeah

IRL there's plenty of consideration of these questions in the old manuals

Fiore has a section on what to do when attacked with a knife while your sword isn't drawn

That involves parrying with the undrawn sword and drawing it in the same motion

[prisma sun]

Hmmmm

[velvet raft]

'I'm in a bad position, possibly sitting. How do I get this weapon out fast enough to kill you before you kill me?' is a question warriors have asked in many cultures

Not advocating for the style you're making to be battojutsu, tbc

Just talking about something I find interesting

[bleak hazel]

I like the Elden Ring poses myself

it's SMA, you can go wild with it

[buoyant summit]

WAIT I JUST REALIZED WITH THE NAME THIS USES UNWEAVING METHOD OH MY GOD THAT'S SO FUCKING COOL

[velvet raft]

danke

[buoyant summit]

Sorry I'm just

nerding out

about Exalted MAs

[bleak hazel]

you should give Crane a read and then admire the level of Li Mu Bai they managed to fit into a style that can't use straight swords

[velvet raft]

The concept for Pearlescent Unweaving of Strands is that it's a style about entropy

[buoyant summit]

See but Misc

The problem is

We Hate Crane

Because it's the Li Mu Bai style

Li Mu Bai

The greatest user of the jian in fiction

The jian

Our favorite Chinese sword

[bleak hazel]

he does also use the stick

[prisma sun]

Form for the style might be like, "once per turn you may use a free action to cut something"

[velvet raft]

I think the whole point with li mu bai is that the choice of weapon has largely ceased to be relevant

[buoyant summit]

And the martial art in Exalted based on Li Mu Bai can't fuckin use it

[bleak hazel]

the upside is that Crane absolutely bangs and is by far the best style in Core as far as I'm concerned

[velvet raft]

He can fight off the green destiny with a fuckin' reed because he is beyond such things

[bleak hazel]

even mechanically it's a tie between Snake and Crane

[wise ocean]

this attack, the light emanating from within it flares out
to strike each other creature of darkness within medium
range, wreathing them in ghostly bonfires. Each one suffers
one die of aggravated damage, plus an additional die
for every 10 on the first damage roll, ignoring Hardness.
Damaged enemies begin to shine, suffering the effect of
Paralyzing Combustion Imbuement.

Mastery: After incapacitating a nontrivial creature of
darkness and resetting to base Initiative, the stylist may
use Devil-Slaying Spear Dance to roll a rush against all
enemies caught in this Charm’s bonfires. She moves in a
blur of blinding motion, coming into close range of each
rushed enemy and making a decisive attack against him
before moving on to the next. Her Initiative doesn’t
reset to base until she’s completed all attacks.```

```Mastery: On a successful rush, the stylist may instantly
move into close range with her target in place of the
normal effects of a rush and reflexively make a decisive
attack against him, which doesn’t count as her attack
for the round. [...]```

```The Sidereal’s attack extends its range by one band,
maximum long. If the attack roll’s target number is
reduced, she extends the attack’s range by two bands
instead.
With Thrown 5, Essence 3, the Sidereal may pay a
one-Willpower surcharge to make it possible to attack
at extreme range with this Charm.```

```Upon purchasing this Charm, the Sidereal chooses a
Sidereal Martial Art. She can learn it without needing
the requisite Martial Arts Charms. She can use it with all
Thrown weapons, though this doesn’t make it compatible
with other styles that use them (unless the Sidereal
also purchases this Charm for them). All her Thrown
Charms count as Versatile for that style and as Martial
Arts for any of its Charms that interact with other styles,
like Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Form (p. 354).```

number of enemies she can perceive within medium
range, blurring between them all in a split second,
ending her movement anywhere within medium
range of her starting point. This has a base damage of
(Initiative/2, rounded up) against each enemy.
[...]
Against enemies whose onslaught penalty equals or
exceeds their Essence, this attack is unblockable and
undodgeable. If it exceeds their Essence by three or
more, the attack is an ambush.

In Emerald Gyre of Aeons Form, this Charm’s range
extends to long.

Enlightenment: When the stylist wins Join Battle,
she can use The Moment That Is Murder reflexively.
This counts as her attack and movement action for the
round.```

```She may pay one Willpower to flurry two Simple
Martial Arts Charms, or Charms that are compatible
with martial arts attacks. If she flurries
two Simple Charms that both let her make attacks,
she can combine their effects in a single
attack as long as they aren’t incompatible in any
way. (This doesn’t apply to Charms that let her
make multiple attacks or area-of-effect attacks).```

```The stylist can use this Charm on her turn to reveal
that a character within medium range of her has
actually been somewhere within short range of his
apparent location all along.
[...]
If the stylist can see a target in a reflective surface,
she can use this Charm on him as long as he’s within
(Essence) range bands.

Enlightenment: Upon winning Join Battle, the stylist
can use this Charm any number of times, waiving the
Willpower cost of uses past the first. She doesn’t need
to make gambits against unwilling targets unless she
moves them into an environmental hazard or similar
peril.```

this is extremely stupid. I'm not even sure if it *works* because it's based on a "well, these are *technically* single attacks" reading of the two attack charms in question.

*however*,

[prisma sun]

Also, do SMAs have Enlightenment

they do right I'm not dumb

[velvet raft]

Yes, that's what Enlightenment is for

[bleak hazel]

yes, usually on most of the charms

enlightenment is the extra-good-at-SMAs keyword for Sids and Gets

[velvet raft]

SMAs don't have Mastery

Which I like to think is because their heights just aren't expressed through rigorous perfection of physical motions

[bleak hazel]

I'm trying to figure out what the fuck this combo is and I cannot, can I get it on "use charm X with Y and Z" level rather than giant blocks of text

[coral wraith]

SVN says hello

[bleak hazel]

also literally everyone who can learn them is already there, you must be at the peak of physical martial arts prowess just to use 'em

[wise ocean]

yeah this is me just trying to put all the relevant bits in one place so I can read them without scrolling through three books lmao

[velvet raft]

Yep

[bleak hazel]

pales before the glory of snek

is still decent

[velvet raft]

And for sids, SMA forms unlock universal mastery, so

Sids are not necessarily the best at MA dips until Essence 4, when they get their SMA form

[prisma sun]

What's a good name for a Keyword that means "If your intimacy is Defining, you get this bonus"

[buoyant summit]

Heartsblood

[prisma sun]

It's already called Heartblade

[buoyant summit]

Shit, true

[prisma sun]

already approaching copyright infringement

[buoyant summit]

Also that was mostly a joke referencing 'strike from the heartsblood'

Hmmmm

Gotta break out the thesaurus rq

[bleak hazel]

keywords tend to be a gamewide-only thing, or at least splat-wide

[buoyant summit]

Crux?

[bleak hazel]

I'd just make it a paragraph at the bottom of every charm before Enlightenment and Reset

[prisma sun]

Hmmmmmm

Alright

[wise ocean]

• arrange everyone into an appropriately pleasing setup with OSOI Ripple in the Silvered Glass

• Emerald Gyre form to flurry two martial arts attack charms without penalty / combine them into a single attack "as long as they're not multiple attacks or area of effect"

• make a decisive against a nontrivial creature of darkness that incapacitates it with Golden Janissary, Lone Spark Lights the Conflagration, triggering Golden Janissary Devil-Slaying Spear Dance

• extend this with Sid Thrown to be able to make the Decisive at Extreme range, Insatiable Weapon Wanderlust, which Maiden-and-Shadow Enlightenment xhowevermany has made compatible with the relevant MAs and SMAs

• roll this into Emerald Gyre, The Moment that is Murder, which is Long because of Emerald Gyre Form, extended from there to Extreme

• as a result, you make a Decisive from Extreme against whoever you can perceive, if you damage a nontrivial creature of darkness they tag everyone within Medium of them with a debuff and damage (thus why the OSOI is important), if you incapacitate said creature of darkness you then make a special rush that lets you instantly move from Extreme into Close against every single guy you just tagged with the debuff and Decisive them

this only works against nontrivial creatures of darkness and requires you to kill one

also, as noted, requires a certain reading of "single attack" in Moment that is Murder

[bleak hazel]

Lone Spark requires Paralyzing Combustion to already be on the target, so I guess you set that up beforehand

[prisma sun]

wall of text incoming

[wise ocean]

yep, you have to get a setup turn to get into form, apply debuff to Unlucky Guy #1, and wither yourself up to enough init to make blowing 4000 motes and WP on the combo that instakills like 40 guys to be worth

[bleak hazel]

primary annoying thing about setting up SMA deathcombos is that Enlightenment charms in combat abilities can't select regular martial arts, so you have to get compatibility for them the usual way

[prisma sun]

Cost: -; xm 
Mins:; E3, Martial Arts 5
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form
Duration: 1 Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Sheen of the Heartblade

The martial artist assumes a wide stance, holding their blade flat far from their body. A foolish warrior thinks this leaves them open to attack, but a wise master knows that love and hate are never far from a swordsman’s heart. 
 
Upon assuming the form, the Martial Artist may Cut something as a Gambit with a (Strength/Dexterity/Manipulation) + Martial Arts roll once as a reflexive action per turn as a Gambit. Though Cutting does not deal damage, anything else is able to be Cut. Objects, intimacies, concepts, and so on. (Rules for how hard it is to cut stuff here)

The martial artist can Cut defenses, reducing any character’s Hardness, Soak, Guile, Parry, Evasion, or anything else in half for the duration of the scene. A character may only be Cut this way once per scene. 

Cutting an Intimacy degrades it by one step. If the Intimacy regards multiple people, it insteads splits into two intimacies of one step lower. 

Cutting an object destroys it specifically by cutting it in half. 

Cutting a concept reduces it in half in short range around the martial artist. Cutting light would reduce the light around them in half, cloaking them in darkness. Gravity could be Cut in half, allowing for soaring jumps not usually possible. In such situations generally, these would increase the value of a Stunt by one step and add (Essence) or 3, whichever is higher, non-charm dice to a roll. ```

We are also Goemon

[bleak hazel]

I think (barring the chance of compatibility issues I cannot be bothered to comb through and check for) this works but also struggles a bit because all your attacks are decisive and the first one resets you, so you're doing a lot of ping damage with the various doom flurries

get a redsid to pop Greater Sign to up that to base init 8 or so

[buoyant summit]

'The Martial Artist can Cut Defenses'

https://giphy.com/gifs/KonnichiwaFestival-evangelion-konnichiwa-eva-3CJjyy63fqY7rKIDDB

[bleak hazel]

SMA forms are E4, for one

I think you may want specific rules for what happens when you Cut a character that isn't "pick any stat and slash it in half" because that's going to do some broken stuff depending on how this works with penalty negators and so on

[prisma sun]

That makes sense

[wise ocean]

also with stuff that lets you attack different stats

cut some guy's guile, attack guile, huge gain vs. whacking his defense assuming average combat character stat distribution

[bleak hazel]

I would also not make the conceptual nonsense a general-purpose non-charm dice adder because adding 4-5 NCD to anything you like makes Sids astronomically busted

solar dice cap ho

the idea of "what if we roll all the funky bisecting into one form" is fun, though, big fan

[wise ocean]

indeed, if I could find some kind of withering I'd like that, but no, they're all decisive - fortunately, none of them reset until after all the attacks are over, so if you can find a way (like having another sid in the locale) to bump up your reset init, you get huge gains

even ping damage is a lot when it's multiplied by every perceivable entity in Extreme Range

also because it's emerald gyre hitting everyone multiple times is funny because Onslaught

it's e5 bullshit, but the idea of throwing a single spear that destroys an entire army of undead in a single heartbeat is exactly the kind of thing e5 bullshit doomcombos should be

[prisma sun]

Think I should just make it Essence or just a flat Stunt+1?

[wise ocean]

stunt

encourage people to get weird with it

[bleak hazel]

I would figure something out that isn't either "free dice" or "free stunt booster" myself but of the two I prefer bumping up stunts

I think you probably want to sequence the form as (without copying this wording, this is just me being quick) "1/round on their turn the stylist may cut something....." followed by a series of paragraphs that describe what happens if you hit:

• an enemy
• a range band
• an abstract concept
  with it

[prisma sun]

Drifts is a few charms short of a combo that does this

[bleak hazel]

(slash ground to make it difficult terrain is fun because the mechanical effect of D.T is "takes two move actions to cross" so it's almost literally bisecting the range band)

[prisma sun]

Oh I had COMPLETELY forgotten about cutting space

[bleak hazel]

this also lets you skip the gambit sequence for things that aren't hitting people

which saves everyone a lot of time and effort

[prisma sun]

I think I maaaaaaay make the Enlightenment bonus something esoteric

[bleak hazel]

I would probably reserve "cut light in half" or similar conceptual manipulation to that

possibly with a discrete list of what you can do, possibly as a 1/scene stunt booster or NCD generator

[prisma sun]

I think that's good

A once per scene stunt booster on top of everything else should be good.

I need the math on how generally hard it is to destroy intimacies

[wise ocean]

oh, hah

wandering axe foresight plus paralyzing combustion imbuement

you can throw your spear in the air where the massive army of undead is going to pass a few hours later, it eventually tags a guy, and then you go from that into the doomcombo because that gives you PCI setup

[bleak hazel]

I could have sworn there's something where you punch someone until their intimacies fall out somewhere but I cannot remember where

possibly it's just really common homebrew

[prisma sun]

I feel like I've seen this shit in every splat

[bleak hazel]

one thing you can do that I find is fun is take the Crane/Righteous Devil capstone thing and say "if cut successful, intimacy counts as one level lower for the scene, if you incap them you can choose for it to be nonlethal and delete the cut intimacy entirely"

so you can set them up and go "OK, if I take you down I just annihilate large parts of your psyche"

or some other variant on the Righteous Devil capstone

[wise ocean]

there's a lot of stuff that gives a target intimacies, monkey capstone suppresses the target's intimacies, can't find things that degrade target's intimacy but I know I'm probably just not looking in the right place

for degrading your own intimacies abyssal integrity is over there

[prisma sun]

Sids also do that

[bleak hazel]

also infernals, common tech

sids have probably the coolest one though since it's not limited in what it can target

monkey capstone is probably good to crib off

[buoyant summit]

Abyssals could also use the style to make a fun 'become an emotionless killing machine' build yeah

[velvet raft]

Sids also have a ton of stuff that targets their own intimacies

[buoyant summit]

I will admit most of our brainpower for the last half hour is thinking of cool thematic builds for the style Voy is making lol

One per Sid caste

[wise ocean]

you should probably wait until the style is done before making builds for it, rhi.

[buoyant summit]

The Serenities being the idea that also uses Thousand Blades to become the calm, emotionless eye of the storm when battle is joined

Sorry

'Builds' got substituted for 'characters'

Not actual like

No character sheets are happening

Character ideas are

[velvet raft]

I'm not sure what Red Evening Sky Style would be like

[wise ocean]

sometimes a character ain't got one, or their style is a reflavoring of how they combine MAs

[velvet raft]

Yeah, just thinking hypothetically

[wise ocean]

Graves Style is putting a whole bunch of things in a blender and saying it's Deathlord VBOS, f'ex

[velvet raft]

Since we've been talking about SMAs and what they mean personality-wise for a while

Or, on-and-off

[prisma sun]

 
Upon assuming the form, the Martial Artist may Cut something once per turn as a reflexive action.

-Cutting intimacies reduces that intimacy by one step. If an opponent is incapacitated by the martial artist, they may choose to permanently destroy that intimacy and must replace it with two conflicting intimacies of one step lower. 
-You may Cut away the space between you and an opponent, instantly teleporting one range band closer to a target. This does not use your move action. 
-You may Cut the Earth, making all terrain within Close range of you into difficult terrain. 
-You may Cut someone’s defenses, halving their soak, hardness, guile, resolve, parry, or evasion for a turn. This is not considered a penalty, but instead the new base number for which penalties and bonuses must apply. A character can only have one defense Cut this way once per scene. 
-You may Cut objects, destroying anything non-magical by cutting it in half. This is a reflexive Feat of Demolition with a base effective Strength of 5+(Essence).
-You may Cut Sorcery, allowing you to take a Distort action as a (Dexterity/Strength/Manipulation) + Martial Arts roll. 

Enlightenment: 
You may end the form to Cut things that cannot normally be Cut. This includes concepts, promises, elements, Sorcerous Workings, gravity, or anything else the Storyteller may allow. Artifacts, manses, and other similarly magically reinforced items are still immune to Cutting in this way. This can be factored into a stunt to increase its value by 1, once per scene.  ```

@bleak hazel howssis

[bleak hazel]

Double move is an E5 solar charm so that's out, I'd just make spacewarping add or remove difficult terrain from a range band or maybe halves the difficulty of an environmental hazard

The intimacy one needs clarification on what intimacies it can target, I'd say you have to be aware of them first

and the stat-halving one is still busted but I'd say you should write the rest of the style on vague draft before coming back and playing with the numbers

[prisma sun]

Maybe I just make stat-halving it's own thing

[wise ocean]

double move is a good charm for later in the SMA, though, I suppose

[bleak hazel]

(funnily enough "DV halver" was a stock 2e charm archetype on loads of low essence charms, but that was a different time, there are none in 3e for good reason)

Could do "cut enemy as X difficulty gambit, if you succeed the next attack they take is your choice of Unblockable or Undodgeable"

[prisma sun]

Oh that's pretty good

Hrmmmmm

[bleak hazel]

You still need to land that against their Def but hey, it's free onslaught and you're just chucking these out every round for nothing

[prisma sun]

Trying to think of what other esoteric cutting I can put into this before I move on

Oh

Probably let you cut environmental hazards

I think that's a good "you just straight up reduce that by half"

Upon assuming the form, the Martial Artist may Cut something once per turn as a reflexive action.

-You may cut Intimacies, reducing them by one step. If an opponent is incapacitated by the martial artist, they may choose to permanently destroy that intimacy and must replace it with two conflicting intimacies of one step lower. 
-You may Cut the Earth, making all terrain within Close range of you into difficult terrain. 
-You may Cut someone’s defenses, performing a Gambit with difficulty (x) against a target. The next attack against them until the end of their next turn becomes the attacker’s choice of Unblockable or Undodgeable. 
-You may Cut objects, destroying anything non-magical by cutting it in half. This is a reflexive Feat of Demolition with a base effective Strength of 5+(Essence).
-You may Cut Sorcery, allowing you to take a Distort action as a (Dexterity/Strength/Manipulation) + Martial Arts roll. 
-You may Cut environmental hazards, reducing their damage by half or by Essence, whichever is higher. If this would reduce it to 0, the hazard is destroyed up to Close range around the user. 
-Any Cutting action gains a +1 Non-Charm dice if the Cutting is done with a Heartsblade made from a Defining Intimacy. 
Enlightenment: 
You may end the form to Cut things that cannot normally be Cut. This includes concepts, promises, memories, elements, Sorcerous Workings, gravity, or anything else the Storyteller may allow. Artifacts, manses, and other similarly magically reinforced items are still immune to Cutting in this way. This can be factored into a stunt to increase its value by 1, once per scene. ```

[bleak hazel]

Good enough for an outline, you'd have to come back and balance this carefully for having massive flexibility at a later point but it's so much easier to draft every charm and then polish every charm than the other way around

[prisma sun]

Ya

[bleak hazel]

I lose momentum very fast when I have to do all the numbers stuff to part 1 of 5 of my artifact before I write the rest

Fun fair folk quote from 1e that gets across their general deal very well

It's also worth noting as a source of at least as much indirect inspiration for this material is the modern American short cartoon, particular the Merrie Melodies and other early and mid-period Warner Brothers studio work. Exalted: The Fair Folk is very much a game about life in a world where anything is possible and death is not especially to be feared, and what is left when the ultimate threat and compulsion is removed. Our culture's closest analog to such a place is the world of the children's cartoon, where causality and even life itself do not matter so much as relationships and the scenarios the characters find themselves in again and again. Players and Storytellers seeking to understand the world of the Fair Folk when they are alone, without mortals, would not do badly to take a look at these mid-20th-century entertainments, particularly those kept in their original format and not cut for modern television screening.

Roadrunner and Wile. E. Coyote are both great Raksha archetypes

as is Dick Dastardly

except Raksha extend their possible concepts to all human imaginings and beyond so you get your Jack Sparrows and evil overlords and cute girls next door and everything in between

[fierce star]

... Hmm, Jack Sparrow as a dreaming sea fae...

[velvet raft]

... I think Red Evening Sky style might be about the self and internality

[bleak hazel]

I once saw a comment that the Pirates of the Carribbean movies make way more sense if they're a bunch of raksha Shaping at each other

"you're on land, that breaks your sworn oath" "look, I'm in a bucket of water, I'm fine"

[prisma sun]

Drifts I already made to be Charcoal Spider coded

[bleak hazel]

Rival is so invested in his original styles being used in interesting ways that I don't think he has his own

Maybe a secret technique or two

[velvet raft]

Not in a BOKL way, but I think much more defensive

Progressing from wanting to keep everyone out to being comfortable alone within the self

[buoyant summit]

Is it like

A rite of passage as a Sid player to make your blorbo's martial art lmao

[bleak hazel]

Not in particular

I haven't seen many

[fierce star]

most exalted players do not homebrew

doing such is a pathway to powers that many find... unnatural

[wise ocean]

SMA is especially difficult to homebrew, as well

[fierce star]

I have three sidereal characters and I don't think I'd homebrew an SMA for any of them

... though honestly they're only vague ideas, I'm not sure what regular MAs two of them would go for.

[tulip folio]

I homebrewed a SMA and I'm still not sure if it's remotely competent.

[wise ocean]

I can see homebrewing a SMA for my current Sid, but that's because he's just really a bit off the wall in terms of character concept and "necromancy SMA" sounds quite fun

[mighty rover]

like playing an exigent

[fierce star]

One of them is a Greensid who's faeblooded and is the daughter of a raksha that I have affectionately described as 'fairy big boss', and who still tends to view things in a rather storybook manner and exists as a professional shitstirrer who loves rumors, gossip, and drama, true or false, becuase it makes things more interesting and eveyrone deserves to live in interesting times because the idea of liking boredom is entirely outside her context as a person

[tulip folio]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AIBgU41XmOoG64RyeaLlbXiS8dLyohKjfCUdnbpIFjk/edit?usp=sharing I mostly did up 'one for the sword lovers' and tried to make it weird enough but still really not sure on it as a style.

[buoyant summit]

Cutting the Strings immediately has every Even Blade user in the Bureau perking up like fucking meerkats lmao

'If the attack benefits from Aiming, it is also Unblockable.' is like offering a Serenities Malfean cocaine

(This is not a criticism lmao, I think it's funny)

If this incapacitates the target, their entire upper soul immediately passes into Lethe. In addition, their lower soul will not rise as a Hungry Ghost. Beings whose souls would not pass into Lethe when killed (Such as Gods, Dragon Kings or Jadeborn) are still affected this way, being spun into a human life for their next reincarnation to better understand life through human eyes before their native form of reincarnation reasserts itself.

W o w

[velvet raft]

Buddha blaaaaade

[buoyant summit]

Viridescent Eyes is both very cool and also every user of it is going to want Even Blade as their point of entry

Specifically the Immanent Steel School

Which

🐴As a person for whom that is literally her favorite MA in all of Exalted, I approve

XD

[fierce star]

even blade or sidereal melee

[tulip folio]

The funny thing is I wrote it before 3e Even Blade. XD

[velvet raft]

Sid melee fuckin' loves aim

[tulip folio]

But I did kinda do bits of it to hook into 'Man, Sid Melee is fun'

[velvet raft]

It's funny, because sid archery? Mostly doesn't give a damn about aim

[tulip folio]

As I firmly believe that SMA should work best with sid tools. Solars can learn it but they're Sid martial arts.

Hence the big Aim focus

[buoyant summit]

🐴 Oh I don't disbelieve that, just... as our system's main Exalted player, for whom my favorite style is Even Blade, of whose substyles my favorite one is the one that loooooooooooves the one EB Aim charm?

This Shit Has Me Salivating

[tulip folio]

Hahaha

[buoyant summit]

Just

I see the first charm

https://giphy.com/gifs/5VKbvrjxpVJCM

'Unblockable for 6m?'

'Well don't fucking mind if I do!~'

[tulip folio]

Restful Sleep Denied is 100% designed to also make Heavy Swords feel a bit less bad. As heavy melee feels sad a lot of the time.

So it gets a little extra over a light or medium weapon

[buoyant summit]

That would be nice with a heavy sword ye

And ye heavy melee feelsbadman

🐻Which is part of why I'm an unarmed White Reaper stylist

[tulip folio]

It's also inspired by Rakan Coolio's parrying Saturn's Scythe to stay alive. XD

[buoyant summit]

Wait

Sorry, what?

Oh

Right

Artful term for

Him somehow still being alive

Not

Saturn Showing Up

And Getting Parried, Idiot

[tulip folio]

It's a bit unclear, honestly. He's supposed to be dead but if the parrying was literal or metaphorical...well, the two kinda overlap once SMA get involved. XD

[buoyant summit]

You know, true

But yeah, anyways

Outside of any game that is likely ever going to occur, I would make an EB stylist that goes into Viridescent because God DAMN

Okay

Iki

'He becomes an Enemy of Fate'

Sauce

Fucking SAUCE

-# I hadn't even read the capstone Charm yet Iki what the fuck is this oh my fucking GOD

[tulip folio]

Hahahah. It lets you turn 'I killed him' into 'I still killed him but in a way I dictate'

(It lets you Death Note a guy you successfully stabbed to death)

[buoyant summit]

Iki

This is sauced as fuck

[tulip folio]

Yay, glad you think so. I felt a bit cheesy making the last 2 charms 'Final Destination A Guy' and 'Death Note A Guy' but they are some of the big 'Fate + Death' media out there. XD

[buoyant summit]

I mean yeah, that's cheesy

But like

It's a fucking Heavenly martial art for office politics shithead demigods who are the Men in Black

It's Cheddar All The Way Down

Fuck the moon being made of cheese the whole game is fuckin cheese

And it's great

lmao

[buoyant summit]

🦢God I wish Steel Devil didn't suck <XD

[tulip folio]

Two Sword Style is very cool conceptually

But...why?

Why Corebook?

[prisma sun]

Hrmmm

I think I am gonna make a bonus of the Heartblade being that you can use your Parry to resist social influences

just to make sure you don't get dogwalked by social combat

[tulip folio]

That would be very powerful. It would likely be an instant effect, not an ongoing one.

[wise ocean]

indeed

[prisma sun]

It's sacrificing your ability to use your best intimacies to defend against social combat

So it's kinda required

[wise ocean]

But your parry won't degrade like not being able to keep using your best intimacies in extended social combat does

if you want it to be ongoing you'd need some kind of social onslaught penalty (which sounds pretty funny)

[tulip folio]

It also removes the ability to use your intimacies against you

Sure, you can't get a +2 from your intimacy but the other guy can't hit you with a -2 either.

[buoyant summit]

What's the best MA to use as your prereq for Emerald Gyre if ur intending to use Seven Star Alignment and also be a sorcerer?

[wise ocean]

snake, probably?

iirc SSA is snake-compatible

[tulip folio]

It's kinda funny that for designing an exalt, charms are much less tricky than like 'How does their excellency work', if you're trying to give them anything interesting there.

[buoyant summit]

What's better to link with Devil-Prince style, VBoS or Even Blade?

[bleak hazel]

I like Even Blade here since VBOS really wants to have Form up and Devil-Prince Sword has a banger form charm that you probably want to stick with

so you can just grab the pre-form charms of Even Blade and enjoy a nice accuracy boost

if this is a Siddy I'd go for Sid Melee instead of either, but on anyone else, yeah, Even Blade

[buoyant summit]

Hm

This is a Siddy

[bleak hazel]

there is functionally no weapon-based combatant that cannot be improved with a hefty dose of Harmony of Blows

[buoyant summit]

Should I build with MotSE in mind to get a Sword-compatible SMA?

[bleak hazel]

which was the charm that I used to utterly blow up that cataphract

it's just "when you take a pivotal advantage in a fight, immediately capitalise"

[buoyant summit]

I will admit I am wary of doing melee and an MA because

[bleak hazel]

honestly that's up to you, but if you do you'll be going pretty heavy into melee

[buoyant summit]

This is for a hypothetical replacement for Fel in the voyserver

Who I am bowing out because I feel like I made her obnoxious and also her build feels crap

And her build

Is Melee plus a martial art

[bleak hazel]

aww I liked her

but yes, there are smooth and rough ways to do it

unfortunately due to the lack of sword-compatible SMAs those are usually the hard way

[buoyant summit]

I don't feel like most people did because I played her way abrasive

[bleak hazel]

someone has to be the local bad cop, everyone there apart from Grinning Mask is pretty relaxed

[buoyant summit]

I won't get into it but suffice to say I don't think I made her bad cop

Particularly gracefully

[bleak hazel]

anyway, Sids are not particularly natural high-essence swordsmen

[buoyant summit]

yeah...

siiiiiiiiiiiiigh

[bleak hazel]

Rival is about the best case - he takes melee enlightenment to get compatibility on two out of his three trees at any given time, since he can use melee with PAOC, unarmed Crane with PAOC or Melee versatile + Crane, but not all three simultaneously until E5

[buoyant summit]

Maybe I just shouldn't make a fuckin Sid

[bleak hazel]

which works quite well but you need to have that triangle in your head so you can smoothly move between the three points as you attack and parry without spending five centuries figuring stuff out at the table

[tulip folio]

I just bug a gm until they let me have swords on a SMA. XD

[buoyant summit]

See but this is a server with like

30 players

[tulip folio]

That's fair

[buoyant summit]

Who have like two characters apiece

[bleak hazel]

a lot of the fancy tricks I developed for Rival are actually outgrowths of trying to manage the compatibility issues

[buoyant summit]

So that would feel like kinda a dick move <XD

[bleak hazel]

it can be an inspiration, as it is here

I am very fond of his constant swapping between weapons and stances since I managed to get it almost seamless

[buoyant summit]

I'm

Not too keen on fighters who juggle stances

As things I pilot

I think they're cool

But not for me

So

meh?

[bleak hazel]

devil-prince is very good as a staple martial art and also quite XP efficient because it's only eight charms and ends at E3

so nothing wrong with just running that + melee

[coral wraith]

Wow that's short

[tulip folio]

It also lets you, nay, demands you chew the scenery while you duel.

[buoyant summit]

I mean sure

But if Sids make poor pilots for it due to

[bleak hazel]

I suspect it might eat a minor nerf or two before release in the same way that Thousand Wounds Gear is apparently going to

[buoyant summit]

Having no SMA to hook into without MotSE

[bleak hazel]

Sids are very good swordsmen when they're not trying to force four incompatible trees together, it's not like Sid Melee is bad

[buoyant summit]

And I want to make a not shit combat character

[coral wraith]

Aww, what're they hitting with TWG?

[bleak hazel]

and you have high-essence charms in Sid Melee and the various supplementary abilities (Presence, looking at you)

[coral wraith]

hero's iron skin sweep

[bleak hazel]

specifically SMA with swords is a bit of a bitch

but SMA are not required to make a good combatant, they're just cool

[marsh garden]

can SMA charms not be used with non-SMA charms?

[buoyant summit]

No I am trying to make a good Fightsid and, from what I know

[bleak hazel]

of course they can, the issues here are just totally mundane martial arts compatibility ones

[marsh garden]

or is there some other clause i'm missing on why they're pushing incompatibility

[buoyant summit]

Most fightsids use SMAs when they get to the commensurate tier

[marsh garden]

ahh

[bleak hazel]

since no SMAs actually use swords

[buoyant summit]

And

Yeah what Misc said

[bleak hazel]

sure, but you greatly overestimate the level of multi-tree bullshit you need to be a good combatant

[buoyant summit]

No currently existant SMA exists for swords

For the voyserver?

Am I?

Am I really???

[bleak hazel]

we're almost all E1/2, there are literally two sidereal martial artists around and one of them is the GMPC

[merry arch]

fwiw i think shes good? i like her as a character. abrasive isn't a bad thing imo. i've liked the interactions i've seen her have so far

[buoyant summit]

Yes, there are only two SMA users around

Neither of the people who pushed Fel's shit in needed to be those people lmao

They just needed Builds

Which I feel like I kinda botched with Fel

[bleak hazel]

Sid Melee versatile + Devil-Prince + some presence with Sid mote efficiency is going to hang in there just fine

Devil-Prince is a very strong martial art

[coral wraith]

Dear, like I said, I do think the builds they used were kinda cracked, especially Chains

[bleak hazel]

hell, Graves can't even use more than one of his martial arts at a time and he's still death incarnate

it's not the size of the charmtree it's how you use it

[marsh garden]

oh, is it? i thought enlightened SMAs were supposed to be slightly over solar-tier with base sid charms slightly under solar-tier

[bleak hazel]

nobody has fucking SMAs yet, for one

[coral wraith]

"uber grapple girl lands one hit and explodes you" is a very difficult thing to combat alone

[bleak hazel]

SMAs with Enlightenment are like "solar tier but with extra side benefits", most Enlightenment is not directly providing bigger number like Mastery does

and Sids have a) Mastery access b) demonically good versatile charms and c) the best mote efficiency in the game, so they can absolutely still throw hands without using SMA

aside from PAOC SMAs lack staple combat effects anyway, they're big flashy capstones, so you're still relying on that floor of E1-2 charms

[merry arch]

yeah this is the sort of thing i've been avoiding with my characters for that server cos it's just not fun to inflict on other players

[bleak hazel]

also you very much did nearly have her despite all this shit

Bear, Melee and big Resistance is basically stat check - the build and best countered by things that aren't swording them in the face, like Thrown/Archery and some good preparation of ground so they're left trying to waddle up to you

[coral wraith]

yeah thats absolutely fair

[merry arch]

i could have gone all in on being a grapple monster on my abyssal but it's just. way too swingy for a format of play that's geared towards favoring drama first

plus i am still thoroughly capable of exploding people if i get a hit in

[bleak hazel]

this is also why Rival is melee and not brawl core, because the fundamental technique of Brawl + Crane is "max speared boar struggle, +3 noncharm sux to grapple, now I slam, now we do it again"

[buoyant summit]

I guess it's the sheer lack of feedback in the form of her Initiative not going down an inch but idk how that's possible lmao

[bleak hazel]

she was on breath of war, that build is not remotely mote efficient

and if only one side of a combat can boost significantly with excellencies it tends to swing pretty fast

but yes, fighting soakbeasts can be frustrating

[coral wraith]

yeah

[buoyant summit]

Guolin I did genuinely feel had some back and forth

He then just

Cracked my fucking mandible in half in one blow

[merry arch]

snake style moment

[bleak hazel]

generally if someone wades in with 20+ motes committed and starts throwing full excellencies w/ supplementary charms on stuff your job, especially as a Siddie, is to still have a character when they're out of motes, at which point you can turn it around

[buoyant summit]

Snake+VBoS

[bleak hazel]

honestly I thought you had significantly less of a chance against Guolin, Guolin has a very solid and synergistic build

[merry arch]

yeah guolin's built nasty.

[bleak hazel]

once he gets Snake Strikes the Heel I think he'd have a shot against basically anyone there below E3

[buoyant summit]

I guess that shows just how much I know about Exalted combat because I would 100% rather fight Guolin again

[coral wraith]

Guolin's build is a lot more uh

Interactable

[merry arch]

brick wall who touch of deaths you is kind of hard and not fun to be on the other side of

[coral wraith]

He is a spritely twink who debuffs you with his sexy moves vs

The Iron Curtain

[buoyant summit]

(I do worry we are straying into talking shit about gk in absentia about his character)

[coral wraith]

Apologies, not my intention

[merry arch]

not my intent either, just talking about the realities of what pvp looks like with those sortsa builds

[bleak hazel]

on a side note, I am making an infernal and trying to figure out what I want to supplement his core deal of Craft + Thousand Blades with

considering Stealth for once

[merry arch]

sublarmiger....

i think that'd slot nicely into the other two infernals having some stealth they play with too

[bleak hazel]

Awareness is mandatory just for the god-tier join battle tech

but I might not go too deep in it

[coral wraith]

Being a sneakler is quite good

[bleak hazel]

but 8m for double 7s + extra dice on Join Battle is wild

[buoyant summit]

Yeah I wanna be built nasty in a fun way like he is

[bleak hazel]

devil-prince + melee probably manages that

[merry arch]

yeah

[bleak hazel]

take a little presence tech and get Heroic Essence Replenishment for the juice

throw some reflexive instills

[merry arch]

devil prince is a very dramatic style for that server's setup. swing that sword around and make people piss themselves

[coral wraith]

hero's iron skin, sword tongue intensity

aspect of the bear

goes fucking insaneo style with devil prince

did someone say craven intimacies

[bleak hazel]

Aspect of the Bear is fucking deranged, if Rival wasn't already committing infinity goddamn motes and charms I'd have that one

what do you mean that charm is reflexive

[buoyant summit]

So far this concept is a Journeys since there are none in the Convention so far save Drifts himself

however

The idea of making this locus of terror

A Lintha

A Serenities

Sounds very funny

[coral wraith]

who up making my enemy's intimacy towards me of Shit Yourself defining in less than 2 turns

[bleak hazel]

eh, you need supporting intimacies to strengthen stuff with instills

but minors are easy and with a bit of work you can probably finesse a major

well, Devil-Prince can straight up slam majors on there with the first charm if they don't spend willpower

[coral wraith]

lmao

[bleak hazel]

a shame DPS doesn't work with hook-swords because Finger-Stealing Feint would go hard with Crane

[buoyant summit]

I do wish auzhian's got grandfathered in as chopping swords for the purpose of previously published martial arts

[merry arch]

we love bluesids. give delight a friend

[buoyant summit]

Because as written currently they are only compatible with DPS

[tulip folio]

And they're very good swords. What with Disarming and all.

[buoyant summit]

Oh so Delight wants a Lintha who's let go of precisely none of the familial habits for a colleague? Are you sure?

XD

[coral wraith]

delight is hella saucy i think she'd welcome her

[merry arch]

delight has tremendously few scruples and even less care for the proclivities and tendencies of her coworkers

she just wants to have fun

what's a little ceremonial cannabalism between friends

[buoyant summit]

lmao

Honestly

Hm

This character may end up being more abrasive, or least more abrasive-seeming for me to play...

Shit

[coral wraith]

hey

have her be differently abrasive

everyone loves a snarky little shit

[tulip folio]

In other news: My Sid has successfully bribed an Infernal with food.

You take the 'You immediately start starving after 24 hours' charm and all of a sudden 'I'll take you to some of heaven's best resteraunts, my treat' becomes a potent bribe. XD

[coral wraith]

but in a fun loving way

[merry arch]

i havent had delight get really catty with anyone yet, but all of her coworkers absolutely know that she can spit some fucking venom when you rile her up

she's been a good girl so far.

trying to be on her best behavior cos of the probation

[coral wraith]

i bet delight could say some crushing things if you piss her off

[buoyant summit]

I hate being snarky <x3

[merry arch]

true!

[buoyant summit]

hmmm

I'm retiring Fel to not be abrasive and

Be constantly anxious I've annoyed people

So

Hm

<xD

[coral wraith]

I mean ya basically playing a foul mouthed pirate captain right

Is that unappealing?

[buoyant summit]

For the purpose of 'I don't wanna feel like I've pushed others' buttons to the point of pissing them off', kinda yeah lol

[coral wraith]

What I'm kinda getting at is, it all depends on the vector, right?

Like Fel shut people down most of the time

[merry arch]

fwiw i think that may just be anxiety talking. i wasn't pressed by the abrasiveness in the reactions when delight was trying to get a rise out of her

[coral wraith]

Yeah, 100%

[merry arch]

cos delight is a shithead

who is just short of a divorce and a crashout to becoming female raphael ambrosius cousteau

this is to say: she is a woefully corrupt and dirty sidereal

also in retrospect the comment she made about dancing during the first sid meeting being taken the wrong way was not intended to be a dig at felmaian's divine heritage, one of her choices for ascending horoscope is dancing with someone. but it's way fucking funnier that delight didn't correct her and just said yeah sure i'll take a free ragebait

[buoyant summit]

Okay

Very funny

Delight almost has to literally know Felmaian's mother

Felmaian's mother works for the Cerulean Lute

[merry arch]

oh without a doubt

[buoyant summit]

But yeah I made a character with

[merry arch]

oh yeah i know your mom. we've done blow together. danced a couple times. she's great at parties

[buoyant summit]

A massive chip on her shoulder

A chip so large it may more accurately be called a gouge

[buoyant summit]

"I'm Going To Fucking Kill You"

[merry arch]

HAHAHA

[buoyant summit]

(jokes)

But like yeah

For reasons I did not expect you to ken

Fel has a serious one-sided beef with Serenities

[merry arch]

it's so fucking funny

[buoyant summit]

Because her mother is like those moms who have kids with a good career

But not the right good career, you know?

[merry arch]

HAHAHAHA

[buoyant summit]

Her mother is vaguely put-upon that her daughter is not a bluesid and makes that emotionally into Felmaian's problem

[merry arch]

you would have made such a good joybringer

mom i literally didn't have a fucking CHOICE. take it up with mars

[buoyant summit]

Her and her mother aren't on speaking terms currently because she said even if it was a choice, she would have picked the House of Battles.

[merry arch]

extremely tracks

[buoyant summit]

She tried to toe the line and be a good daughter and say 'oh well I couldn't choose, mom'

And Chishaia just kept saying shit

[merry arch]

serenity moment

[buoyant summit]

And she just said 'you know what fuck this, this would be my choice if there was one, please shut the fuck up forever.'

[buoyant summit]

Also no she wouldn't have even as a child she was a surly bitch

Prone to getting in fistfights with other children

[merry arch]

delight's got a lot of trauma tied up in being forcibly displaced from her home culture with the shellrider nomads and has been, surprise surprise, avoiding it for her entire career

[coral wraith]

sidereals and trauma

name a more iconic duo

[buoyant summit]

Mask wears their trauma on their face!

:D

[coral wraith]

literally!

[buoyant summit]

Hence the name!

[merry arch]

any time she gets a whiff of someone trying to fix her or get too close she just hits the Avoidance button and scrams

[buoyant summit]

You know

Thinking about it

[tulip folio]

Avoidance(Of Therapy)

[buoyant summit]

maybe I can salvage Fel

But

idk

her mechanical build still feels

Stained

[tulip folio]

Hmm...I wonder what a good necromantic control spell is for a sid...normal sorcery control spells tend to be a bit easier to pick than necromantic ones.

[buoyant summit]

By the back to back getting fucking clapped

[merry arch]

i like her a lot, she's got good pathos

[buoyant summit]

To the point that I think I would struggle mightily to feel like she's

Competent

[marsh garden]

i don't think most C1 necro spells are very generically good, so it's gotta depend on your goober

bone throne's seems most likely to apply to sid stuff though

[buoyant summit]

The Bone Throne

[tulip folio]

She's kinda an anti-necromancer necromancer, which makes my usual default of 'Ready Bake Skeletons' less tempting

[merry arch]

yea i get that. it's pretty demoralizing. i think it might be worth taking another pass at her combat kit and maybe try refining it a little bit where you can now that you've piloted the build?

[coral wraith]

Curveball answer - Grotesque Masque of the Inevitable

[marsh garden]

is that one not just worse than the equivalent stuff sids can stick people with?

[buoyant summit]

Maybe, but idk if that's allowed

[merry arch]

sure it is, couple folks have done it so far

talk to voy i'm sure he'd let you

[buoyant summit]

maybe...

[marsh garden]

i think Malediction of the Infested Heart would probably better supplement sid whammies, right? since they have a shit-ton of charms that instill passionate emotions

[tulip folio]

Grotesque Masque of the Inevitable is pretty cool for the 'you can use it to assist your own disguises'.

She does have Crossing Plutonian Shores

[merry arch]

not to mention I think it's the preferable option to just abandoning ship given the meaningful interactions she's had so far with sid crew and other characters

[buoyant summit]

mmm

[tulip folio]

Bone Throne is also tempting

[merry arch]

if you're not having fun/things aren't working how you thought they would I think that warrants another pass at the build

[tulip folio]

The big thing is that her primary spell is Summon Ghost but Summon Ghost can't be a Control Spell

[bleak hazel]

a lot of people have edited builds so far, I'm sure you're good

[coral wraith]

[buoyant summit]

Mebbe

[merry arch]

I have Felmaian bias after the BeaMu interactions

[buoyant summit]

I will think about it and perhaps post the build for critiques <XD

[marsh garden]

afaik it can, it just doesn't have a control benefit

[buoyant summit]

god her social defenses are dogshit

[marsh garden]

like its Demon/Elemental equivalents

so if you don't actually like, want a second spell, you don't need one

[tulip folio]

I suppose I could also try to badger the GM into letting me use a homebrew spell/updated 2e spell as I did update a few from 2e (Though I'm still not 100% happy with all of them)

[marsh garden]

but yeah bone throne's control seems saucy

[merry arch]

yeah you can control summon ghost you just don't get any passive benefits

[buoyant summit]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hxbjAX55qxx4HC9PVQxYO1SbYt2Ayw5EfqW4pifVXpA/edit?usp=sharing

Here's Fel's sheet as it currently is if anyone wants a look

(Forgot I had temporarily set her strength to 5 with burn life oops)

[bleak hazel]

honestly there's not really anything wrong with this (except that you haven't tagged your specialty, put (Attack, Parry) after it so the sheet autocalcs your attack pools)

could use higher Join Battle, I guess

it's just not massively combat invested, you showed up to fight Guolin, who has about the same investment but in a penalty-stacking style very good against Sids, and then Chains, who has more resistance charms than you have combat charms of any kind and then another dozen melee and bear style charms on top of that

all three of which are very favourable approaches to combat because soak stacking is strong as hell, Bear is strong as hell and Abyssal Melee is strong as hell

[buoyant summit]

Chains is horrifying, yeah

[bleak hazel]

like, 12 combat charms versus 25 is not an even match, really

[buoyant summit]

HOW FUCKING MANY????!!!!

[tulip folio]

Yes

[bleak hazel]

I suggest calculating how much splat XP you'd have if you went from E1 to a bit into E2 and using that to top things up

chains

[marsh garden]

jesus

[buoyant summit]

And even then she only has one fucking Ox

I'm going to throw something >X3

[bleak hazel]

like, oh no, you lost to Dusk McDusk, the total all-in combat freak with a grand total of four charms that are not specialised in the game's best fighting trees

[marsh garden]

and you still almost won, apparently

or were like a turn off from a turnaround?

[buoyant summit]

This

[tulip folio]

That is a dusk I'm looking at.

[buoyant summit]

She was just about out of gas

[marsh garden]

which really is a Sidereal Moment

[buoyant summit]

Completely blown through periphs, down to low single digit personal

Meanwhile I'd not yet touched Personals and had a few periphs spare

And

[bleak hazel]

I suggest topping up Fel with 40 splat xp, since that's what you'd have if you went from E1 to E2 in actual play

[buoyant summit]

To be frank

I did not want to let Chains try and see if she could splatter my fucking brains on the pavement, thanks

So I took her offer not to do that

[tulip folio]

Okay, the GM gave me permission to take a homebrew spell/use it as my control spell. Dyrim's Voice, Ho!

[coral wraith]

wassat

[buoyant summit]

What would I even take lol

idr if Fel doesn't have both E2 EB charms of her substyle but I think she does?

[bleak hazel]

some more awareness and then take a couple of your MA charms with that XP so you can use real XP for some Sid charms

like, that was not "stomped because your build was bad", it was "solaroid with 33% more XP than you and 100% combat focus to your 60/40 showed up"

[tulip folio]

A necromancy spell that lets you Wake Dead Tongues.

[coral wraith]

oh speak with dead, sweet

well

even better

[tulip folio]

Yeah, doesn't let you speak with a corpse but it does let you speak with things like zombies

[marsh garden]

also lets you animate a fucking gravestone or a mailbox DE-style, it looks like

since it works on manses

which goes hard

[tulip folio]

As long as it's got some form of intelligence, yeah

[marsh garden]

ahh, so you can't use it on inanimate skeletons

tragic

still fun for interrogating the house, though

[tulip folio]

Still handy for 'hey, lets talk to a thing that is observant but can't talk'

As there's a lot of shit in exalted that is smarter than it looks.

[tulip folio]

And the control is situational but good in those situations.

[marsh garden]

started working on another artifact because i've been stumped on some flavor text for a third one

does this charm read okay and seem balanced?

Water the Barren Reef
Cost: 4m, 1wp, 3a; Mins: Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: Decisive-only
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: a couple
The wielder makes a decisive attack against an enemy with lower Initiative, rerolling a number of failed damage dice equal to her target's wound penalty. If she deals 3+ decisive damage, she gains a temporary -0 health level for every 3 levels of damage dealt. A character incapacitated by this attack is agonizingly overtaken by parasitic coral, turning into a statue as she dies and granting the wielder an additional temporary -0 health level. These health levels are the first to be filled and vanished when damaged, or at the end of the scene. When unfilled health levels vanish, the wielder may expend up to (Essence) of them to heal that many levels of non-aggravated damage or convert that many levels of aggravated damage to bashing.

Dissonant: This Evocation can only be used against Crashed enemies.

Resonant: The attack is unblockable.

[buoyant summit]

Would it be a good or bad idea to take some Evos from Voltspindle, since that's what I'm intending the Bow Shock to be a reskin of?

[tulip folio]

I'd set a cap on health levels, just to deal with those foes who have like 30 health levels and mediocre defences.

[marsh garden]

ahhh

that makes sense

extra sentence somewhere...

oh wait no just extra clause at the end of the damage one

hm, E or 3? relevant att/ability?

[tulip folio]

E or 3, whichever is higher yeah.

[marsh garden]

cool cool, thanks

[tulip folio]

Master Puppeteer's Knife
Cost: 13nm, 1wp
Keywords: Decisive-only
Duration: Instant
Spreading her fingers wide and slashing a sharp object beneath it, the caster cuts the threads that bind a necrotic semblance of life into a corpse.

The necromancer unleashes a wave of Essence, rolling (Wits + Occult) as an unblockable decisive attack against all Undead or Blighted characters — including allies — within short range. It does not reset the Necromancer to base Initiative. Those animated by another's will rather than their own are particularly vulnerable to this effect and thus Mindless Undead as well as Gremlins formed from Mortals or Animals suffer -2 to Defence against it. 

The attack deals (Intelligence + extra successes) dice of lethal damage to each hit character or (Intelligence + Essence + extra successes) against battle groups.

Those destroyed by Master Puppeteer's Knife are granted peaceful rest and show none of the effects that their time as undead or gremlins would have caused. They cannot be raised again as undead.

Control: The necromancer gains (essence) bonus dice to the spell's attack roll. Her dedication to the breaking of chains is palpable around her. Slaves and Prisoners count as having a minor tie of sympathy to her, even if they would otherwise be mindless, as long as she is not the cause of their state. However, slavers and other binders of the unwilling count as having a minor tie of disgust towards her.

I keep wanting to go back to this spell updating from 2e but it it kinda ends up 'okay but why would I use this over a more general purpose blasting spell?' and I'm still pondeirng how to square that circle XD

[marsh garden]

hm, this is just DoOB but only hits undead, isn't it?

well, that's still better than Flesh-Sloughing Wave lmfao

which doesn't add initiative but does reset it

[tulip folio]

Yeah. Master Puppeteer's Knife in 2e was the big 'Tell that Undead To Fuck Right Off' spell.

[bleak hazel]

Basically everything voltspindle has is extremely good, so sure

Also solves your join battle problem

[tulip folio]

I suppose if I wanted it to be a bit more versatile, I could make Master Puppeteer's knife do the other thing it could do in 2e.

Where it could be done AOE or Focused Single Target for more effect

[tulip folio]

Yeah, Voltspindle is a beast of an artifact

[wise ocean]

Forty entire splat XP? Christ that's a lot lmao

[velvet raft]

Do y'all think it's fair game to take a specialty in using an ability for a martial art's charms?

Like, taking a medicine specialty specifically for Citrine Poxes calculations, or things like that

Presence for Black Claw, stuff like that

[marsh garden]

a specialty's like, a blistering 3xp even without flat gen, yeah?

[velvet raft]

Ye

I'm not asking whether it's worth it EXP-wise

More whether that would be a valid specialty in folks' opinions

[marsh garden]

ohh

[buoyant summit]

I would

say so?

[marsh garden]

i mean, if "swords" is valid for melee, being something you do 90% of the time, i can't imagine "medicine (Citrine Poxes)" is invalid

because there's a massive swathe of medicine rolls it doesn't hit

[velvet raft]

Yeah, that was my thinking

[wise ocean]

I'd probably phrase it as "medicine (disease)" or whatever rather than specifically calling out a MA, that's a bit odd

[marsh garden]

i c i c

[bleak hazel]

Medicine (Citrine) is a sensible pick, purely because you roll Medicine for the omniheal in Citrine Pox style and it's kind of hard to do otherwise

although of course you can have Citrine Pox (healing)

[velvet raft]

Yeah, just thinking about how often MAs call for rolls in other abilities

[buoyant summit]

God it is so fucking ironic that Fel has Easygoing Friend Approach...

[marsh garden]

was thinking about infernal brawl again, and reminded of the discussion on like

Infernal Monster Style and other "hero styles" - was that just something unique to solaroid brawl suites?

or did every splat have a hero style?

[velvet raft]

Every splat had one

[marsh garden]

i've only heard reference to solar hero and infernal monster as names

gotcha gotcha

do you remember the names of any others?

[velvet raft]

Lunar Hero and Terrestrial Hero, iirc

[marsh garden]

i assume they were...less interesting/impressive

ah

[velvet raft]

VBOS was sorta the Sid one

[marsh garden]

even more ah

tragic

[velvet raft]

I thiiiiink Dark Messiah Style or something for Abyssals

Do not remember at all for alchs

[bleak hazel]

Lunar Hero was deeply uninspiring, as was Terrestrial Hero

[velvet raft]

Honestly Solar Hero was pretty boring too

Sure it had HTH but like

It was overall not very interesting

[bleak hazel]

I think technically Sidereal Hero Style was Throne Shadow

[velvet raft]

I think Throne Shadow was released later

But I could be wrong

[bleak hazel]

Solar Hero Style only had focus because it got 500000 expansion charms crammed in everywhere the writers could fit

same with Solar Melee

[marsh garden]

so it's basically just that Infernal Monster is the only one with conversational value?

[bleak hazel]

they were so desperate to print more Solar combat charms that they crammed those fuckers into errata

[marsh garden]

lol

[velvet raft]

and they were all still boring

[bleak hazel]

and yes, Infernal Monster and VBOS were basically the only two with any sauce

thank you Jenna Moran

[velvet raft]

Oh, nice, Ligier has no forced movement tech

[bleak hazel]

Ligier fights you very straight up

outside the green sun wasting he has many variants on "hits you with his sword" and that's mostly it

[velvet raft]

Yeah, I'm just trying to sort out exactly what is needed for a Ligier-focused ISP

[marsh garden]

thank you jenna, we love you jenna

[bleak hazel]

yeah, wiki, yeah

that basically sums that style up

[velvet raft]

lol

[marsh garden]

oh right i forgot about dicking around with a ligier build because i couldn't figure out a satisfying way of dealing with his defend other self

[bleak hazel]

it's basically a perfect, you just hit the sword out of the air by beating his normal parry

[marsh garden]

yeah but it's a perfect that costs uhhh

i think 3m?

it was mad cheap when i was looking at it

[marsh garden]

oh wait 3i

okay

[bleak hazel]

it's extremely good but he never gets a discount on it so it's only somewhat spammable

even with his giga mote pool

[velvet raft]

Hum, since this is a proper PAOC stylist, I wonder if there are any evocations I should pick up

seven-star alignment might actually make sense if I have the space for it

[wise ocean]

if you're doing ISP you're pretty much the top bar, solar brawl GG

[velvet raft]

... might have found some synergy with Black Claw if I do go that route

[velvet raft]

tbc I'm using it as a generalized term, this is a siddie for Misc's sunderdome

[wise ocean]

ah, gotcha

[velvet raft]

Using my favorite relevant combat stuffs for siddies