Exalted

[velvet raft]

I will read when I discover the spoons to focus on anything

[marsh garden]

also understandable

that is me so much of so many days

if you ever have the inclination, i would be happy to hear any feedback, but no worries

[tulip folio]

Before I go...pondering a charm and also pondering what examples of it already exist. Basicly: A social charm to give resolve bonuses/a bonus to resist enemy social stuff to allies. Does any exalt much have buffs there? I know a few with a direct 'Social clash a social action' but not more passive buff effects.

[marsh garden]

i'm not aware of any, but i'll see if they exist!

[velvet raft]

Infernals have something like this, and I think alchemicals do too

For Infernals it’s in … socialize, iirc? It consists of making snide remarks in order to prevent a social attack

And has a key that makes it help protect allies

[marsh garden]

actually, trying to build a dipshit for this just to like, get some better system mastery

and how do you want to handle artifacts beyond CC?

purchased as if they were a purchasable merit, or barred entirely?

[bleak hazel]

buy 'em as merits

although ideally you put that stuff in chargen

post-chargen merits are expensive

[marsh garden]

yeah, was just looking at tblades

[bleak hazel]

making high essence characters like this is always funny because you start them off with a whole bunch of merits and artifacts and stuff that they only come into later on

so they're just stereotypical cultivation MCs who randomly stumbled across five legendary artifacts aged 12

[marsh garden]

snrk

alas, i cannot buy 15 dots of artifact merit without dipping into bp

hm

with flat xp, what are the "right" things to buy with bp? i guess evocations since they're cheaper there than with xp?

[bleak hazel]

dots, maybe willpower

same as normal

[marsh garden]

huh

[bleak hazel]

merits are acceptable, anything charmshaped is deliberately inefficient

[marsh garden]

fair enough

oh

willpower is

by far the best thing to buy for a lunar, it looks like

2 bp/dot, same as an ability...vs 8xp against 5

Lunar XP/BP
Disfavored Att. 2.5 (10/4)
Favored Att. 2⅓ (7/3)
Ability 2.5 (5/2)
Merit/Specialty 3 (3/1)
Willpower 4 (8/2)
Disfavored Charm 2 (10/5)
Favored Charm 2 (8/4)
Evocation 2.5 (10/4)
Animal Latent Ability 2 (6/3)

time to tuck that away somewhere

[velvet raft]

Okay this is definitely abusable

I'm thinking something like ... Crystal Chameleon/PAOC/Citrine Poxes/a dash of CMOS

Maybe some Rat

Which is a lot of stuff

[bleak hazel]

doing this with siddies really turns into "so what insane MA soup are we doing today"

[velvet raft]

Ye

[bleak hazel]

I was just trying to figure out what the best pick for third PAOC Form component was on my build

[velvet raft]

I think in this case I'd probably aim for the full PAOC complement, but I gotta think about it

Crystal Chameleon form is strong but it's possible to do without if willing to deemphasize the stealthy aspect of the style

Which is very doable as of E4

But CC/Rat/Citrine Poxes could also be very strong

If exploiting disease and poison bullshit

Which Endings seems well-poised to do

I'd never actually noticed that clause before

Rat King's Secret Art is ever so slightly completely ridiculous

[velvet raft]

Huh, sids can spend their Imperialism Merit Dots on Manse

That could be useful

[bleak hazel]

a real withering attack crime here

in this case boosted significantly by the existence of PAOC Form to up that Essence scaling

if you hit you automatically score one autosux on the damage roll, burning seven additional init into nothing

soakbeast ensaddening method

[fierce star]

oh shit rules for the Ligierfights

[bleak hazel]

reasonably confident in the defensive setup of my own entrant but I admit burning through 40HLs with his defenses is going to take a while

[fierce star]

I guess I should decide if dipping into like. I think it's five MAs + 1 SMA is actually worth it on this build if I'm optimizing for infecting ligier to death

[bleak hazel]

I am pretty sure anti-Ligier rival is going to end up with five combat trees

need a dip into Fire Dragon and then I may was well get Even Blade Form because it does more for PAOC Form than Fire Dragon Form while still unlocking shortswords

[fierce star]

What's the policy for homebrew/custom evocations?

[bleak hazel]

not generally allowed but I will make exceptions if I think it would be a fun matchup

I'm not exactly writing a competitive ruleset here

[fierce star]

legit

[velvet raft]

Man, PAOC is great here but it also costs 140 xp to get running

The xp isn't wasted or anything but it's a lot

[velvet raft]

Toad Style ...

[wise ocean]

I gave my Sid for Voysever a Greater Manse (CIA headquarters)

it is fair and just

[tulip folio]

Here's a pondering: If you were capped at E2 and no mastery, what martial art would you consider one of the best? Pondering for quick character purposes.

[wise ocean]

Toad, I guess?

[bleak hazel]

single point, easily, but in general I don't think this changes the usual ordering

[wise ocean]

ah, ignoring single point

[bleak hazel]

most MAs have their game plan online at E2

so you just rank them by normal scariness order

maybe knocking Single Point, Righteous Devil and Thousand Blades down a bit because a lot, but not all, of their excess power is in Mastery

[tulip folio]

Fair.

[wise ocean]

some MAs are more or less frontloaded, though, and some are (as you've observed) more or less invested in things with the Mastery tag

[fierce star]

There's white reaper, though it's a little specialized of course

[wise ocean]

I can see the list being shaken up to some extent

[bleak hazel]

VBOS does well without mastery, as do most of the newer MAs because the devs in general have been making every buff and debuff keyword less impactful in recent books

[fierce star]

(It's almost like they were bad ideas to start with...)

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah all the dragon styles get deep sixed because a lot more of their stuff is higher than E2

I quite like the idea of just using the same MAs at three different levels, it's an elegant balance solution

corebook/1kblades went a bit wild with it but I don't see anything wrong with the principle

people just get more mad about "your power is 7 but nerfed to 5" than "your power is 5, other people are buffed to 7" so Terrestrial is more hated than Mastery by some margin

[dense verge]

normal/mastery split im fine with but i do like giving DBs more toys not less

[bleak hazel]

the terrestrial restriction I actually care about is the one on most of the reflexive attack charms that says "this counts as your swing for the round" since that balances it against their actual charmset

the rest, eh, they can go

but since there are three tiers of charm in the game there should also be three tiers of MA-charm-juice or things get wonky

[tulip folio]

Maybe my alch shouldn't have gone 1k blades. XD

[dense verge]

i can see use cases for terrestrial restrictions like with swing economy but mostly the keyword just makes me want to choose styles that dont have the terrestrial keyword

[wise ocean]

the secret nefarious trick is that deeb brawl excellency is water, so you take water dragon to form and then just keep turning off terrestrial

[fierce star]

I'm going to be honest I personally saw no issues with the ex2 terrestrial/celestial/sidereal MA setup with terrestrials being able to just initiatie into celestial MAs after some progression

i think that should have been standard fore veryone, with mastering a terrestrial MA letting you take celestial MAs

This has been your groggy hot take for the day

[bleak hazel]

the gigantic glaring issue for that is that you now need to write a whole bunch of extra styles for basically no reason

so many of the Ex2 terrestrial styles were just lamer counterparts to the good ones

there is little fond reminiscence about the incredibly juicy and thematic charmset that was Five Dragon Style

[fierce star]

I lked five dragon style ;>>

I will admit this is entirely an emotion-based, vibes-only hot take

mechanically the way ex3 does it is almost assuredly better

[bleak hazel]

I like the fluff of Five Dragon Style but I'd rather write it as a 3e mechanical style and have some actual juice to the charms

rather than what it actually was in Ex2, which was an immaculate MA that was dehydrated until all the juice had left

featuring such incredible charms as "hit", "parry" and "unblockable mega attack, but only against mortals"

[fierce star]

entirely fair

[velvet raft]

Bear

Mantis

Snake

Crystal Chameleon

[fierce star]

crystal chameleon...

you know that is the dumbest idea of something to submit to LigierFest 2026 lmao

sovereign crystal chameleon user

[prisma sun]

I wanna know how Anys Syn does against Ligier

[bleak hazel]

that is approximately infinite work to discover because you have to go through all her combos and extrapolate out all the charms she is guaranteed to know

might still lose but there's also the possibility she can just penalty stack until he can't swing at all

[wise ocean]

tier 1 anys power level is what's on her sheet, tier 2 is that plus every SMA charm, tier 3 is that plus every martial art needed to get SMA access plus all the Immaculate martial arts (just in case)

[bleak hazel]

at the upper ends of Extrapolated Anys Power she wins if basically any Sid wins, because she just does whatever they do with more motes and higher essence scaling

(with the exception of sorcery, which she has no talent for)

her printed statblock with no extrapolated charms probably just gets floored because it's not really designed for that, it's designed to be easy to run for STs

[mighty rover]

I don't recognize that first name

[bleak hazel]

Essence 7 Sidereal hyperfocused on martial arts

she is the grandmaster and very possibly the single most lethal human alive

they had to put a safety cover over her character sheet

[mighty rover]

lol

[bleak hazel]

note the prerequisite

[prisma sun]

She is in fact the coolest bitch on the planet

[bleak hazel]

she is sufficiently cool that her adds are five essence 5 dragonblooded plus a battlegroup

she also has peak human guitar playing capabilities because in her spare time she likes to a) cook and b) shred

[chilly sluice]

I do really love that she explains the style she assumes

It's fun

[bleak hazel]

Syn’s students find her an unconventional teacher.
She puts them through grueling training regimens
and sparring bouts against their fellow students and
also makes them accompany her on shopping trips to
expand her collection of antique string instruments
and learn to cook to her exacting standards. If questioned on her methods, she insists that the martial arts
reflect and are reflected by all other disciplines and
that she cannot afford to retain a chef.

she's great

[fierce star]

She was known in previous editions for trying to teach sidereal martial arts to dragonblooded of sufficient enlightenment

it never worked (they'd explode) but she kept trying

not because she wanted like, super SMA-using terrestrial assassins or anything

but for pure love of the martial arts game

[chilly sluice]

Yeah I did read about that

[bleak hazel]

the guy she was going to teach them to was extremely cool though

Ragara Myrrun, who was basically smaller anys syn

most of the deebs stop learning IMAs after finishing one, not least because that's already a herculean task

Myrrun decided fuck it, I'm going for the ace

and decided to learn all five

[fierce star]

Unfortunately, both of them were non-solaroids in ex2, so it was doomed to failure from the start

[prisma sun]

Mainly existed as a plot device to blow up the immaculate hq

Iiirc

[bleak hazel]

or potentially as a boss, yeah

which would have been incredibly binary because an E5 deeb was a walkover for most Ex2 solars even with IMAs and SMAs were totally unbeatably broken if you knew the right ones

[prisma sun]

I mean even still

[velvet raft]

Fuck, I can fit Rat and PAOC and Citrine Poxes and Crystal Chameleon, but I run out of space for Toad

Worth contemplating dropping some or all of Rat for it

Since I'm trying to stack idiotic numbers of penalties and Rat doesn't help me do that

[tulip folio]

Ragara Myrrun would be cool to see make a return as the guy who knows that 'Mix all immaculate styles' special technique

[marsh garden]

hmm

trying to understand what's necessary to survive ligier, in an attempt to grok the fuckin combat system better

and, for Green Sun Wasting, you basically need to be able to constantly and resourcelessly survive virulence 12, yeah?

disease rules confuse me

[wise ocean]

the big ones are "don't die to multiattacks and reflexive clashes"

[marsh garden]

yeah but green sun wasting also mcfucking kills you

[bleak hazel]

he can tag you with it using his big nuke moves and his decisives, so if you have excellent defence against those you might be able to just win before it stacks too badly

but it's a bastard if you can't dodge, block or negate the things that expose you to it

[tulip folio]

Being undead or automatons does wonders to help stop ligier's disease but that's not an option for everyone

Unironically the Infernal necromancy charm is great anti-Ligier tech even if you never cast a spell

Just for making you disease immune

[wise ocean]

this is basically how I'm trying to live it without spending 3 charms on abyssal resist disease suite

[marsh garden]

as i understand it, the big list is

• tank the 10-attack 10d++ combo
• don't die to 24d double 8s withering clashes
• be immune to GSW
• have an uncountable damage defense
• resist onslaught and wound penalties
• do all of this while ensuring you don't eat shit to unblockables/undodgeables

right?

[wise ocean]

"be immune to gsw" is not necessary, nor is the wound penalties bit

you can just health stack your +0s with ox-body

[bleak hazel]

the double 8s on the clashes are on the damage, not the attack

[marsh garden]

not everyone gets -0 ox-bodies

[bleak hazel]

but the annoying part there is the 1s/2s subtract successes charm he has

unsure if he can use that in clash

[marsh garden]

that's on offense, yeah?

oh

oh that makes sense, that would be nasty

i was looking at the defensive demands before the offensive ones

[bleak hazel]

precedent is that Hail-Shattering Practice can't be used there but I will ask specifically in the Exalted discord about that

since it doesn't specify

and that landing in clash is mean

[wise ocean]

in general, looking at disease rules, I don't think you do live gsw if he decides to apply it unless you're a burn life sid

statistically needing 24 dice on stam+res is lmao

[bleak hazel]

burn life sid still needs the repurchase + a really good feat of demo roll

[prisma sun]

I dont think theres any rules legal way for player characters to be outright immune to disease

[bleak hazel]

Heartless Maiden Trance suppresses the effects, which is what I'm using for this

an 8 mote chunk out of your pool is rough though

[marsh garden]

an abyssal (and i assume a solar or infernal) can do it pretty trivially

you go "i've gotten myself GSW'd with a virulence not 12" and now you're immune to GSW

[bleak hazel]

Undead creatures are in fact immune to disease

unsure if there's an exception somewhere but I haven't seen one

[marsh garden]

abyssals don't get to be undead

[wise ocean]

abyssal disease resistance suite looks like you're always going to contract it, but gsw minor symptoms don't do anything and then you're rolling against morbidity 5 with (effectively) reroll failures

[marsh garden]

oh right infernals do

[wise ocean]

yes, that's what I'm referring to

[marsh garden]

"immune to any such ailment that she's been previously exposed to"

long-term buffs are allowed

[wise ocean]

oh lmfao I missed that

wild

[marsh garden]

i assume "i contracted wasting from a lower-virulence source and am now immune to the virulence/morbidity 12 source" would be classified as a long-term buff

[bleak hazel]

you do need Untouched by Mortal Frailty up for the actual fight

[wise ocean]

damn, I really should have given Graves the disease/poison suite, then. Oh well, I didn't literally build him for Ligierdome

[tulip folio]

How does Ligier deal with Legendary Size foes?

[bleak hazel]

but yes, I will permit you to have been tagged by doomplague beforehand

as far as I can tell badly, but you still have to deal with the fact he hits like fifteen trucks taped together on decisives

his withering offense is not his strongest point

[marsh garden]

yeah but it's a day-long buff, so i assume you'll just be down the WP (unless you have other shit to rejuice your WP as part of those prebuffs you said were kosher)

it's also uh

really really weird to me

that ligier phase 2 has no interactions with LS

[bleak hazel]

it's duration: one day, so you commit the motes for that duration

[marsh garden]

ohhh, right

[marsh garden]

i was looking at the LS charms for lunars but went "ehhh, i have to imagine misc will say phase 2 ligier counts"

because otherwise that's just kind of fucking wack

[prisma sun]

I also wonder if you can really say GSW is the same if its ligier himself giving it to you or like

[marsh garden]

that he's 100% larger than any LS character but doesn't have LS

[prisma sun]

Some random demon rat

[marsh garden]

that's fair!

even then, you're only rolling against v/m5

[bleak hazel]

he's twelve feet tall, that's below anything I can think of with legendary size

[marsh garden]

so it's way more achievable

this is only 12 feet tall??

[bleak hazel]

If LS builds chump him that's feedback I suppose, but it's not like he can't gigastab you anyway

[marsh garden]

that is not the impression i got, ngl

[bleak hazel]

correction, ten feet

he's kind of c'taning it, he's an incredibly powerful being that isn't a kaiju

[marsh garden]

...i guess that is referring to that form

fair enough

okay in that case LS tree it is

[prisma sun]

Elephants?

[bleak hazel]

slightly shorter but a hell of a lot bulkier

[prisma sun]

Perhaps an Astolfo Vegeta situation

Seeing the typing stop means I win the comedy

[marsh garden]

hm, ligier doesn't have anything to pierce soak, does he?

other than, presumably, the Piercing property on his light spear

[bleak hazel]

whelm 5, his big spear and a hell of a lot of attacks

but yeah, if you're going to stop him cold on post-soak damage reduction/legendary size that seems smart

[marsh garden]

yeah but nothing past that

[prisma sun]

He can fly cant he?

[marsh garden]

looking at soakbeast bullshit with Primal Beast Ascension and God-Monster Transcendence

[prisma sun]

Cuz if he can fly he can just kill with a seismic toss

[marsh garden]

only if you can't also fly

[bleak hazel]

he can Legend it and turn into a sunbeam momentarily to flash step multiple range bands

I do not believe he has perma-flight in his statblock

I choose to believe he's ominously floating around a lot

[prisma sun]

It seems like what he would do

Also what's his feat of strength dicepool?

[marsh garden]

13d/10str

[prisma sun]

Then yeah he can also just throw a building at a soakbeast

[bleak hazel]

his actual pool is fuck you

[prisma sun]

So yes he can just throw a mountain of you

[marsh garden]

oh based

[prisma sun]

I have learned the quick way to deal with a soak beast is the environment

[tulip folio]

Yeah, was mostly pondering for seeing how Rock Em Sock Em Alchemical does

Honestly if he was LS that would be BETTER for alchs

As they'd get Double Turns

Through Devastating Actions

[marsh garden]

are devastating actions an alch-only thing?

i vaguely remember seeing it, but that might just be in the alch read i've half finished

[velvet raft]

They're a warstrider thing

[prisma sun]

Yeah

[marsh garden]

gotcha

[prisma sun]

They let you fight battle groups or instantly kill all trivial

[marsh garden]

also, importantly here: throwing mountains is not making 10 decisive attacks or clashing with one trillion die witherings

i'm sure they'll also have massive gubbins

[prisma sun]

Yes

[marsh garden]

but it'll be without a lot of the benefits of his charms

[prisma sun]

This is something he can flurry

The -2 seems completely inconsequential at that point

[bleak hazel]

ligier clarifications from the writer

I might run him with the full diff 12 heat just to see how it rolls

[prisma sun]

So he can just Omnislash you and then throw a mountain at you

[bleak hazel]

can't flurry simples

but he has plenty of turns where he's not omnislashing

if there's one thing this man does not lack it's action economy

[prisma sun]

Okay so he can only flurry the building at you

[marsh garden]

dewit

[prisma sun]

But like

[bleak hazel]

the real killer move for him might be clashing everything with maxed out Unforgivable Imperfection Chastisement

[prisma sun]

Most exalts struggle to deal with a building falling on them

[bleak hazel]

but he's not going to sit there and wait for you to feed him clashes, he's Ligier

[marsh garden]

hm

[next delta]

Legendary size starts at a lower size than I feel people (including me) expect

[marsh garden]

it would be really funny if the unusual hide granted by the bonsider spell could stack it up to 6

otherwise it's just kind of a bad ISOB control, but it's not like it is a defensive

[marsh garden]

yeah, but he's not legendary size

that's what was confusing me

[next delta]

Wait. Really?

[marsh garden]

but misc made a fair point

[next delta]

Is he a really skinny 10' tall man?

I guess if he's only increased in height and not significantly in bulk, that's pretty far from a rhino or elephant

[bleak hazel]

he's a superheated bronze humanoid wreathed in flame, he's basically the old c'tan shard model if it was hot (figurative) as well as hot (literal)

[velvet raft]

Legendary Size is when the opponent's size is meant to be a major aesthetic part of fighting them

Ligier is not defined by size but by overwhelming power and skill

[prisma sun]

Ligier fight got the vibe of the final boss of Asura's wrath

[marsh garden]

ah rip, i misread the transformations in many-faced strangers

you don't get your mutations :(

[tulip folio]

The alch specific thing is getting to make them against other Legendary Creatures

[marsh garden]

well, at least you get four...

[velvet raft]

Alch colossi are less clumsy than warstriders and so do a bunch of the same stuff better

[next delta]

Devastating actions are not standard for legendary size, but they are for warstriders

[prisma sun]

Boooo

[marsh garden]

hm

[next delta]

Does the alch devastating action work for everything but regular-sized single people then? It's normally only for BGs right?

[marsh garden]

are there any other ways besides primal beast ascension + terrifying ogre alteration to get mutations on Mr. Beast, or am i not allowed to become 36 soak snakegod?

[marsh garden]

BGs and trivials, looking it up

and alchs get it to legendaries, so yes

free double actions against everything except short kings

and ships (lol)

[bleak hazel]

warstriders at base are basically straight worse colossi, yeah

they get their own health track and count as artifact armour, but the alch has way more action economy, isn't hindered by being gigantic and can heal as normal

[next delta]

Do Colossi have similar upkeep requirements to warstriders?

[bleak hazel]

and alchs have a zillion health levels anyway

not really

in-universe they're expensive as hell, but they're not almost-lostech

the benefit of being a guy rather than a mecha

[fierce star]

colossi are just dudes with essence 5

it's also technically a choice, E5 alchs don't have to install the 'become huge' charm

[next delta]

I like how there is a charm (mod?) to put your larger self into elsewhere

[marsh garden]

think it's a full charm

[velvet raft]

It’s a charm, yeah

[tulip folio]

Giant Lizard Lunars and Warstrider pilots don't like rockem sockem robots with the alch. Death kitty lunars are unphased

[marsh garden]

hm

do lunars have any charms to recover from crash?

or is it all just "don't get crashed 5head"

[bleak hazel]

There are very few charms to outright recover from crash

The closest you get is something like Auxiliary Battle Consciousness or Charcoal March of Spiders Form, which roll extra init tracks for you and as such give you a bunch of init

[marsh garden]

gotcha

[bleak hazel]

otherwise you hit them to get enough init to get out of the negatives or use other init gain methods

[prisma sun]

The best way to recover from crash is non-perilous charms that let you hit or run away

[bleak hazel]

Ligier is almost unique among enemies for having an outright Uncrash Yourself Now button, and NPCs need it more when they're raid bosses being hit by 3+ guys.

[marsh garden]

yeah that makes sense

just trying to figure out if there was a way to bait decisives to set up this one

although uh. i guess ligier is adding +7d to all attack and damage rolls in phase 2

which i didn't notice

i didn't realize that worked on damage too

[bleak hazel]

I don't think it does, it's an excellency

Certainly I'd expect that to be called out

[marsh garden]

ah, okay

i assumed the lack of callout meant it was universal unlike Exalt excellencies

[bleak hazel]

Every other excellency in that section has the same wording, including the ones on the Infernal NPCs, and we know theirs don't work on damage

[marsh garden]

ahh

[marsh garden]

huh. there are only three berserker animals in the game?

that doesn't seem right

[tulip folio]

It's a powerful ability with very limited access

[marsh garden]

hm, what's ligier's average withering hit gonna be assuming he spams excellency? 12 average sux, right? so an average of 32 raw against def 6?

or did i miss a charm somewhere

and overwhelming is the final minimum post-soak pool, yeah? not final damage?

just trying to figure out how much soak i should stop at

40's probably enough

yeah?

[marsh garden]

i now understand the lunar defense for GSW

sure, it's not going to do anything to mister fuckin green

but 3m to vent is a solid backup plan

[tulip folio]

Crimson Truth Revealed 
Cost: 5m; Mins: Perception 3, Essence 1(?)
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Mute
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
Without structure, the game falls apart and a winner can't be declared. Drawing on the narrative convention within her soul, the Wanderer reveals a rule of the game.

The Wanderers doubles 9s on a Profile Character or Case Scene attempt. On a success, in addition to any other clues, the storyteller will reveal a Crimson Clue about an ongoing mystery or crime. This Crimson Clue is a certainty of the scenario, without need for supporting evidence and often a fact that could not have been discovered by mundane means. Crimson Clues are always valuable and directly related to the scenario. They may immediately rule out possibilities, though they will never immediately reveal the entire truth.

Keys: 

Devil's Proof(Perception 5, +1wp): On a failed roll, the Wanderer can pay 1 willpower to still gain the Crimson Clue.

Detective's Privilege(Essence 2): Crimson Clues can be uses as minor intimacies to support an attempt to Persuade a character with any attribute, as long as it is relevant to the scenario.

Chessboard-Spinning Argument(Detective's Privilege, Essence 3): Attempts to Persuade a character supported by a Crimson Clue using any attribute ignore the penalties for Overturning Influence, as long as it is relevant to the scenario.

Hmm...does this seem okay for a 'Get A Clue' for a Celestial Exalt? Give you an extra clue and allows it to be Literally Any Useful Fact instead of just ones that could naturally be found by the evidence.

[marsh garden]

huh, is "magical fact that doesn't exist" an e1 effect?

i have no idea what the scale of investigations is like

[tulip folio]

Sids get this at E1 as an anti-lie thing:

In the next scene, the Sidereal is assured to encounter a piece of evidence that will reveal any information the speaker withheld, whether by fortuitous circumstance or the aid of a helpful nature spirit. If the speaker didn’t withhold anything, the evidence instead reveals this fact.

And also gets 'Name the type of evidence you're looking for, you'll find it'

So while it's defiantly a weird effect, I'm not sure it's beyond what Weird Splats can do.

[marsh garden]

oh, i assumed that sids weren't the ideal template, since all of their narrative permission powers are so much more powerful than anyone else's for as early as they are

ig since wanderer is a Wyld splat, it makes sense to put em in sid tier

[tulip folio]

Yeah, Wanderer is designed to be Sid Weird in a lot of places. They're actually going to get the Inversion of an existing Sid charm, when I get around to writing it.

[marsh garden]

nice

how many charms do you have so far?

[tulip folio]

21, though many of them have a few keys to help broaden them out.

Like how Crimson Truth above is like 3 charms + a repurchase all written as a single charm.

Avoidance is the Charm I want to give them an inversion of.

Avoidance goes 'Wait, I'm not in this scene!' and just ducks out.

The Wanderer will go 'Wait, I'm part of this scene too!'

And somehow be there all along

[marsh garden]

ohh

that's uhhh

a solar stealth charm, yeah?

i know it's an abyssal one

[tulip folio]

Is it? Bother.

[marsh garden]

it's a cool one!

[tulip folio]

I was planning on doing it less oh 'Yep, I was secretly here' and more 'I'm just gunna write myself into this scene'

[marsh garden]

lemme find it

e5 abyssal

so e1 sid makes sense

since aiui it's e5 because it's stretching to get narrative permission at all

or i guess e3, if i compare solar-tier stuff to some deeb things?

it's probably fine somewhere in e1-3

[tulip folio]

Likewise I plan to give them a weird flurry breaker that's a bit higher essence.

Most flurry breakers are 'I move 1 zone away and hopefully you can't follow me'

The Wanderer's flurry breaker will be higher essence and expensive but has her step one turn away. Ceasing to exist until the start of her next turn beause she steps in a weird direction that leads between turns.

This Gwenpool Comic is likely a pretty good example of the Sort of Nonsense that I want the Wanderer Combat Charms to involve/how fucking baffling they are for most people watching the fey asshole play with narrative rules and the structure of the game around them.

[marsh garden]

nice

[tulip folio]

Like going 'Hey, lets fuck with action order. I'm going to declare an attack, then you spend however many motes on defensive things as you want and then, after you've decided, I'll choose how much I wanna spend trying to beat you'.

[marsh garden]

wow, that seems ridiculously powerful

i assume it's their capstone?

for uhhhh

if they're like sids, it'll be in a fucked tree

intelligence?

extremely fun mean-spirited effect

[tulip folio]

It's actually a downgrade of an existing Lunar charm.

Birds-Fall-From-Flock Targeting

Where Birds can force several people to dump motes like crazy to avoid a single attack

[marsh garden]

jesus

that's e2???

is that just

not as fucked as i understand it to be?

[coral wraith]

i feel like you're overblowing sid charms a little lol

[marsh garden]

because i thought "this charm just means you get blown out no matter what you choose" was like

cracked

and it's just a random e2 lunar thing that i've yet to see mentioned

[marsh garden]

is it? i was weighing it as the difference between a straightforward specialization and a super sideways specialization, where Just Be There is way in sids' corner and out of abyssals'

that was my thought on why it was an expensive effect here and would be a cheap one there

[coral wraith]

if you're viewing it from that lense then fair enough, sure

[marsh garden]

although that's why i realized e2-3 was more likely

[tulip folio]

Honestly, the big thing is that despite the many choices involved, there is really only one real question: 'Do you want to spend a lot of motes defending'. For all it does, Birds-Fall-From-Flock basicly reads 'Drain motes from the guys you didn't attack'

[marsh garden]

i guess i was just thinking of it from the angle of "you get to choose between wasting a ton of motes or getting automatically domed for a million"

is that just not a resource consideration because of the average round count?

[tulip folio]

Oh, it can be quite valuable, expecially against people who run low on motes fast.

But if they spend on defence, it's not entirely wasted

They still cost you your attack

They just didn't do it quite as efficiently as they'd like

[marsh garden]

fair point

[tulip folio]

But yeah, I hope these are interesting at least? investigative charms are already tricky, doubly so when I'm trying to make them at least a little weird.

[marsh garden]

i think the base effect is super neat!

i don't really understand the third key, because i just don't know much about the depths of the influence mechanics yet

and the first two keys are a bit bland to me, but that's like

what Keys are for

so that doesn't seem like an issue

[tulip folio]

Basicly: If someone is already convinced of a thing this scene, it is disgustingly hard to convince them otherwise.

They get a chunk of bonus resolve and resisting it is cheaper

This lets you go "OBJECTION!" and present evidence to make people go 'Oh shit, no. This entirely changes what I was convinced about'

[marsh garden]

ahhh

nice

[tulip folio]

It's for stuff like 'well, everyone is convinced bob did it but I have proof he's innocent!'

[marsh garden]

sick sick

[tulip folio]

Investigative charms are tricky to design though.

[tulip folio]

Right now their biggest 'asshole' tree so far is Appearance. With their stuff like 'giving people nicknames to mess with them' and 'Going full Siren Song'

[marsh garden]

...i really want to design some kind of disco elysium artifact or charm

lessee

sids can deify their mount

solars get to make small gods, yeah?

[tulip folio]

Siren Song Methodology
Cost: 3m; Mins: Appearance 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Wanderer's voice takes on a musical tone, her suitors falling almost hypnotically under her sway.

The Wanderer doubles 9s on a persuade roll to seduce a character or instill rolls to create or strengthen ties based on desire for her. A character that can hear her voice is considered to have a Minor Intimacy that supports this influence.

Keys:

Blind To All But The Song(Appearance 5, +2m): The Wanderer can pay a two mote surcharge to have a character affected by this influence suffer a penalty of (her Essence) to Awareness-based rolls to pay attention to anything or anyone other than her.

Rose Tint Hides Red Flags(Appearance 5, Essence 2): Her targets can't use Intimacies based on caution, fear or hatred to bolster their Resolve against this influence or resist it in a Decision Point.

Appearance Wanderers are very good at 'no, no. Of course this won't end up with you dying horribly. Come on. Trust me.'

[marsh garden]

do lunars have any kind of Make Dudes occultism, or are they too fleshy and physical for that?

[tulip folio]

They can make Beastmen!

[marsh garden]

oh you should totally steal ligier's charm for that

yeah, sorry, that's what i meant

beastmen are like

turning people into something

i was looking for "make a spirit"

but i have a poor handle on lunar spiritualism

[tulip folio]

Not that I can think of, though they can Familiar-ify Fae.

[marsh garden]

huh

that's real neat

do you know off the top of your head where that one's at?

[tulip folio]

Many Faced Strangers

[marsh garden]

thanks!

ooh, only e2

[velvet raft]

Man this is a wild charm

But so is this D:

[marsh garden]

EQUAL TO SOAK???

jod damn

[velvet raft]

It does cost a willpower but yeah, hell of a charm

I'm trying to figure out the specifics of this stupid disease/poison build for fighting Ligier

[marsh garden]

lmao

i should refocus on mine

all i've got down is uhh

[velvet raft]

The thing is that I'd really like to fit in some Toad and maybe some CMOS

[marsh garden]

i think i'm now utterly immune to his withering attacks?

[velvet raft]

Since I'm trying to stack penalties

[marsh garden]

but not sure

gotta make sure i have functional offense now

and not die to decisives

or, uh

actually shit i might need more soak

what's a reasonable ballpark for negation?

+10 over average, or more than that?

(assuming you can deal with the overwhelm)

[velvet raft]

Nest of Living Strands brings this BS in particular

[marsh garden]

-3 to everything and +2 to defense is pretty zonked

do you have ways to abuse the full cover, or just leveraging the -5 eff?

[velvet raft]

Mostly leveraging, but actually hm

Ligier may have an edge against this

[marsh garden]

oh?

can the strands get burned by total annihilation or something?

[velvet raft]

You can fuck up the strands with feats of demolition

They come back next turn

But I'm trying to figure out if Ligier has a way to prevent that from at least denting his action economy

Oh, or a difficulty 4 gambit

[bleak hazel]

I am pretty confident this doesn't do this. You make your attack, declare BFFF along with all your other offensive charms, the enemy bids defence and then you roll without adding more charms afterwards

you need multiple targets to get people to waste effort, and they pay their own defences based on the threat of the attack you already declared

as for the comic panel shenanigans:

[bleak hazel]

You are also significantly overegging Sid charms here. There are effects that only they have because they're odd fate-bending stuff, but in raw power their charms are usually either on part with everyone elses' or slightly above because they're really specific signature moves, like Shun the Smiling Lady or Avoidance

the reason "magically jump into your scene" is an E5 Lunar or Abyssal effect is because it bypasses basically everything you could do to stop infiltration, skips chases, teleports you freely around the map, etc.

it would be an E5 effect for Sids or Wanderers or whoever else

the Dracula is complete

I really like the Sids and Yozis in this version

[chilly sluice]

Keychain of Creation was so good 😔
too bad it got forever hiatus'd

[tulip folio]

I am thinking I'm going to make it a bit more specific in WHEN you can jump in but yeah.

My plan is to make it a Charisma charm, as Charisma is the 'Dashing fey knight' charmset and making it so you can only jump in if a character you have a major or defining positive intimacy towards is in danger.

Very 'last minute arrival to save the day'

Still gunna be e5 though. Just the e5 culmination of thier defend other tree.

[marsh garden]

the other thing is that i was misremembering Everywhere-and-Nowhere Technique lmao

i thought it did about the same thing

but no it's just superhide

well

it's superhide that can infiltrate bullshit, but

[bleak hazel]

it is amazing for aura farming

but you have to actually get there first

[marsh garden]

it's not One Roll And You're In

[bleak hazel]

and it goes through normal stealth detection measures

rather than "abstract all my targets' awareness charms into diff 10, crush it with excellency, job's a good 'un"

[marsh garden]

literally hiding inside somebody's fucking pocket is extremely funny, though

[bleak hazel]

I like the mentioned example, can't remember if it's the 2e or 3e version, of hiding inside the steam rising from someone's cup of tea

[marsh garden]

yeah, it's 3e's

between raindrops

[bleak hazel]

and this is why sids are affectionately known as Teacup Ninjas

[marsh garden]

and in the steam of tea

absolutely ludicrous charm

it's so fucking funny

[bleak hazel]

doesn't actually make your hide roll any better but there are other charms for that

it's the best kind of big stealth charm

Solar Stealth has the almost universally acknowledged problem of rapidly becoming so incredibly ironclad that there's literally no counter

you just press the button and the GM can't interact with you until you're done

and then you join battle with a quintillion stealth dice tricks and evaporate someone

Lunars and later splats are much cleaner in that department

[coral wraith]

Sid Stealth has some really nasty techniques and it flows into Obsidian Shards nicely

Good charmset if you decide to invest

[marsh garden]

yeah, it definitely looks like a pile of absolute fuckery

big fan of the e5 charm just being "start a new skyrim save"

[bleak hazel]

I have come up with an extremely entertaining and overexpensive combo

Searing Edge Attack costs 3 motes and burns [Essence] of the enemy's initiative into nothing when you get at least one success on a withering attack
Empowering Justice Redirection costs 3 motes, and with mastery gives +1 autosux to attack and damage on a withering attack after someone takes a swing at you

hits like a truck, but costs too much to spam

enter PAOC Form, selecting Soulfire Shaper Form (+2 Essence level for calcs, convert init to motes 1-1 when you gain it) and Even Blade Form (+2 overwhelming, successful withering attacks grant +1 init) while granting compatibility with short daiklaives, the Fire Dragon form weapon

have Heroic Essence Replenishment up so you get motes back for each 10 on the attack roll, WSAV to waive the cost to reduce target number and Ways of Exaltation for +3 dice on your attacks without paying for them

[marsh garden]

empowering justice redirection can supplement clashes, yeah?

or does it need to be after an attack, and so only counters would be valid?

[bleak hazel]

attack with 11+5+2+3 = 21 dice, getting 2.1 motes back from HER
hit for 6 overwhelming, gaining a total of 5 init on average
deal 8 levels and 6 dice of withering damage
convert init to motes until neutral, with a bit left over

Infinite Cutting Flame

[marsh garden]

waow

[bleak hazel]

it works fluffwise too, you have refined Searing Edge Attack into this perfectly essence-efficient fusion torch

requires a stupid amount of investment post-E5 but it's a cool elder combo

[marsh garden]

what all splats have mote gen charms, by the way?

is it just sids and abyssals?

(for like, a consistent theme of mote gen)

[bleak hazel]

works on clashes, but only if the same guy took a swing at you or your ward during the current or previous round

[marsh garden]

(as opposed to One Charm That Gives You Five Motes)

[chilly sluice]

Sids have the most I think
But there's usually a few tricks in other splats to get motes

[bleak hazel]

Sids are the uncontested kings of mote efficiency, Abyssals steal motes, Infernals have a lot of things that give them back or let them spend less

Alchemicals rely on the free charm dice from Transpuissant Attribute Upgrade

and then Solars have a bunch of jank mote regen stuff but it's in there

Lunars kind of make a point of not doing it - they're powerful but not efficient, you get your efficiency from being so damn tough you barely have to defend yourself

you can construct shapeshifting builds that use Tiny Creature and other animal perks to get prepaid excellencies like Alchs/PAOC, though

the infamous Death Kitty is a cat lunar with the latent merit for +3 charm dice/+2 evasion against larger targets

[marsh garden]

yeah, y'all explained that one to me

i appreciate the breakdown

[bleak hazel]

I wouldn't say Abyssals make a point of it, Sids/Alchs/Infernals are the big three in that department

you wouldn't imagine the giant green rage monsters as clinically efficient fighters but I guess SWLIHN added some juice there

[marsh garden]

they def seem to kind of have it all

bit surprised the abyssal leech charms aren't a theme, but ig it's that they're worse/less consistent about it?

[bleak hazel]

they're a theme, but it's one charm per combat style and you have to land decisives to make it happens, so they're not a reliable engine per se

they're just useful sustain when you can land 'em

[marsh garden]

gotcha

[light olive]

I had dream. In which I was taking Mario enemies and trying yo reimagine them as demons.

[velvet raft]

I almost want to abandon this dumb disease/poison build idea because I can't make everything fit

I probably don't need to make everything fit

But I desperately want to get poison stuff onto the build without giving up rat 😭

[next delta]

What's the constraints? For chargen or for an endgame build?

[velvet raft]

For Misc's Ligier challenge

I think I'm just giving up on poison outside of the venomous merit and someone else's destiny

But the idea was to take advantage of the Greater Sign of Saturn, which causes enemies to fail their rolls against poison and disease automatically

[tulip folio]

Hmm...Alch resistance to disease right now is kinda in a (???) area vs Ligier.

If it's at the 12, they're kinda shit out of luck

If it's the 5 the dev said it's supposed to be...

Then they can be immune to it.

[prisma sun]

If Ligier is holding back for funsies then yeah most people can end up immune i think

[tulip folio]

Less 'holding back for funsies' and more 'it was said that it's not supposed to be difficulty 12/that's an error'

But yeah, I think 'dealing with his disease' is one of the big sticking points for alchs. Despite being construct-y, they don't have much in the way of anti-disease tech if the disease ends up exceeding virulence/morbidity 5.

[velvet raft]

Sids have a couple of ways to be outright immune

[marsh garden]

does that make them immune? wouldn't they need STA 9 to surge it at v/m 5?

since it's less than and not equal to

[tulip folio]

Ah right, it is lower, not equal to or lower

That's...yeah, Alchs really don't have a solid way to handle the 'disease' part of Ligier...

[marsh garden]

so i guess if they want to win it's uh

grab a sesselja and just bum rush him?

and hope that your meager investment lets you survive A Tick while you annihilate him

[bleak hazel]

he is limited in his ways to tag you with it

if you can dodge his assortment of tac nukes and not take too many decisives it's possible you can go without dedicated disease protection

[prisma sun]

The best way to tank is to say "I thought you were a swordsman not a plague rat" and convince him to turn it off.

Ligier is canonically weak to "No Balls"

[tulip folio]

Aperture of Rarified Breath would likely be a solid command spell for an alch trying to do this.

[nova yew]

cus this guy feeds on radiation

[tulip folio]

+Essence to resist disease

And 'nuclear fallout' is very much airborne

[tulip folio]

Guardian of the Soul
Cost: 5m; Mins: Charisma 5, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Uniform, Perilous
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: The Basic Reflexive Defend Other Charm.

The Wanderer's Defend Other charge is protected by her against effects that are Spells, Shaping or Psyche. If the effect could normally be opposed with a roll or static value, the charge can use the Wanderer's Parry to defend against the effect. Against unrolled effects, the opposing character rolls a dice pool of the Storyteller’s choice.

Keys:

Avalanche Shattering Blade: The Wanderer can protect against Environmental effects this way, including uncountable environmental damage.

To Fight Iron and Hate: The Wanderer can protect against all Influence rolls this way.

Unrelenting Guardian (Essence 3, +1wp): For a one willpower surcharge, the Wanderer can extend this charm's effect to one scene, affecting whichever character they currently have as a charge.

[fierce star]

ooh

defend other against bullying, parry the insult with your sword

[tulip folio]

Gutter-Sliding Blade
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Dexterity 3, Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Uniform
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Some Stuff
A fundamental rule of narrative structure is that any thrown projectile creates tension, the viewer wanting to know if it hit. Stepping briefly aside from reality, the wanderer finds the moment the viewer's eyes would be upon her weapon and reclaims it.

This supplements an attack against a character within medium range. The Wanderer is placed in Close Range with the target immediately before or after the attack. This is not movement and ignores any obstacles between the Wanderer and the target, the wanderer traveling across the thrill of possibility rather than distance.

This can only be performed with a ranged weapon, though it can be a melee attack when using a weapon that can make both melee and ranged attacks. If the weapon was thrown, it is immediately returned to her hand.

Reset: Once per scene, unless reset by incapacitating a non-trivial foe.

Keys

Improbable Projectile Expertise: The Wanderer use this charm with any weapon, throwing melee weapons out and catching them in time for the strike.

Tension-Gathering Technique(Essence 3): The Wanderer can make this attack within Long Range. 

Hmm...do you think I overdid the costs/reset? It does let you jump pretty far, especially if you pick up the keys.

[fierce star]

how much essence are you supposed to have for the second key?

[tulip folio]

fixed

3

[marsh garden]

i don't think you need to be that conservative with em

it's extra movement in two ways

both not taking your reflexive move and being an extra band

but 1wp and 1/scene with a consequential reset doesn't seem necessary when comparing to the infernal version of the bog-standard solar yump

esp. since you can only use it with ranged weapons to enter close range unless rebought

i think you can probably cut down on one of those restrictions, ceding that this is comparing a solar to a celestial

and so it does still deserve the mote cost and essence

[tulip folio]

I had fun with the name. ||Gutters are the white space between panels in comics||

[spring lynx]

i miss KoC

[tulip folio]

Entertainingly, as fun as KoC is, it wasn't the inspiration!

This Gwenpool fan comic was.

[mighty rover]

oh that is clever

[fierce star]

gwenpool is neat

[tulip folio]

My pondering for Wanderer Combat is like 50% Gwenpool 50% Wuxia.

[tulip folio]

"The Average Celestial Exalt lives hundreds of years" is actually just statistical errors. The average celestial exalt gets killed within 5 years. Rakan Thulio and Chejop Kejak who are over 10,000 years old are outliers and should not have been counted.

[velvet raft]

Yeah I imagine the death rate for newly exalted celestials is quite high, and it declines roughly in proportion with the population

[tulip folio]

Urg, doing up enough charms for a full exalt is so much work even if I'm just focusing on the E1 stuff.

[marsh garden]

what wanderer charms are you working on rn

[tulip folio]

Right now I'm trying to work out what Dice Trick feels thematic for them. Most exalt types have a Dice Trick they particularly like. Alchs do 'double 9s', Infernals 'Reroll 6s' (Maximum Satan Hours), the Sids is right in their excellency etc.

Trying to work out what 'fits' for wanderers as if I can work that out, it will get a lot of use in various charms.

A 'reroll some value' is possible, as is playing with double 9s like alchs or maybe something more exotic but I'm not really sure what.

Reroll 1s would have a relatively minimal effect on net successes but also negate a lot of 'hah, turning your successes into problems charms' and would fit their 'Fey Inhuman Skill' aspect, though '10s explode' could also be fun. Also not a huge dice adjuster but gets people with that gambling bug.

[marsh garden]

...what about triple 10s?

i like exploding 10s too

because if you dangle that over their heads, and then give something with exploding 9s, they'll get really feral

[marsh garden]

the +2 clash bonus on 2h/dw is just non-charm dice, yeah?

[tulip folio]

Yep

[marsh garden]

thanks

[buoyant summit]

I am currently trying to convince our Int 1 Dusk that the ability to manipulate and view memories exists

[tulip folio]

First you may need to convince her that other people can hold images in their head.

[buoyant summit]

He but yes lol

Actually

That might be easy to do

He's a supernaturally uuuuhhh

God what's the thing where you experience stimuli with differing senses that expected?

[prisma sun]

Synthesia

[buoyant summit]

Ye

[limpid badge]

Hiiii what about spending a resource to make a number reduce TN instead of count successes?

the impossible becomes more probable

And mortal levels of skill reveals miraculous insight

Like, give up on sevens to let those reduce the TN, then you have to gamble big on eight+

Oh, actually make them spend 5s to do it~! Fivefold are the graces

[tulip folio]

...I'll admit, I'm not quite parsing this? Do you mean like 'if you get 2 5s, you'd reduce the TN by 2?'

[lament owl]

Chat
I am purchasing my 16th charm soon!!!!

Gonna start working my way up to getting the Abyssal Stalking Tree

[marsh garden]

new charms...

the abyssal yandere tree looks extremely fun

[tulip folio]

Impossible Odds Invocation
Cost: 5m; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
Those who study fiction understand a simple fact of probability: One in a million chances happen nine out of ten times. Wanderers can draw on this power, if perhaps with slightly less favourable odds, to gamble everything for impossibility.

After a roll the Wanderer makes is beaten or fails, they can use this charm to chance victory. Roll a single die, which cannot be modified in any way. On a hit, she adds (Higher of Essence or three) non-Charm successes to her roll, which can turn failure into success. On a failed roll, however, her failed roll becomes a Botch. This botch cannot be prevented by any means and even rolls that cannot normally botch (Such as Join Battle) can botch this way.

Reset: Once per Scene

[marsh garden]

hmm

when making a martial art, if anyone has experience with that, do y'all start your mechanical basis from the Form, the bottom, the capstone, or do you not have a consistent order to things?

[tulip folio]

I tend to start from the form.

[marsh garden]

that makes sense! it's where i was going to start here, but i wasn't sure if anyone else found it easier to work up or down

thank you!

[tulip folio]

How does this seem conceptually? The idea is letting the player go 'double or nothing!' on a roll.

[bleak hazel]

I dislike universal dice trick charms because they are basically a charm tax, you have to calculate all your ability dice curves around them anyway so they might as well be in the excellency.

In and of itself, I have no idea how I feel about this effect but it seems more interesting than most basic gimmicks

[tulip folio]

The idea is that it's less of a general use trick and more 'fuck it, rolling some long odds, with it costing me if it fails!'

[bleak hazel]

at the very least every combat build wants this because it's a 40% chance to not get throngled in a clash or whatever

[tulip folio]

Yeah. It's very much useful. I wouldn't want it to cost a charm if it wasn't. I just sorta want 'when do I use this/is it worth the risk' to be a factor.

[marsh garden]

it seems v cool, but it does also look like kind of a universal tax charm

ups and downs...

i think the narrative juice outweighs any negatives

[tulip folio]

I might ponder some other things there.

[wise ocean]

What does a botch do mechanically on a combat roll (vs. just a normal failure)

[bleak hazel]

the usual kind of fumble things

drop your sword, prone, difficult terrain, etc.

it very rarely comes up because combat dice pools are large

absent anything else I tend to go "lose init as if you missed a decisive"

I have realised that Crane Form in the E5 ligier fighting build is more bullshit than I expected because it has actual hardness thanks to PAOC form and ISOB

which means that the crane counterattack timing can lower enemy init to below the quite significant hardness right before it rolls and force it to ping

you can't do that anywhere else because your max hardness is very low without premeditated PAOC form

[velvet raft]

CPOC can do something like it

[bleak hazel]

but it goes crazy at max

[velvet raft]

Oh wait no

[bleak hazel]

like even in a normal E5 fight you can't actually have ISOB up because all your charms turn off until you hit PAOC Form and spend 30 motes on medium armour compatibility

but if you're prepping for one big duel you can

[velvet raft]

I misunderstood what you were noting

Yeah there's a bunch of bullshit that actually building an Invincible Sword Princess entirely for one fight enables >_>

[bleak hazel]

this means that PAOC Form ISOB + infinite fusion combo can bounce any decisive with a remotely sane amount of init behind it if the counter lands

because they get slapped for 9 levels + some dice of init damage and then bounce off hardness 13

shenanigans

[velvet raft]

I should finish up that CPOC stylist, I've got all the charms and whatnot together

[bleak hazel]

I'll be honest, E5 exalted combat does start to get to the point in the battle manga where the exposition takes up more of the panels than the fight

[velvet raft]

I basically just need to do calcs

[marsh garden]

oh, i should go back to mine

[velvet raft]

I do feel like there's probably room to do a variant that drops a lot of the later CPOC stuff in order to pick up Dripping Venom Maw and The Perpetual Moment

[marsh garden]

really wish there was a site that handled complex 3e dice math in sufficient quantities

[velvet raft]

And then does like

Agony Of One Hundred Hells Technique

Or some shit

[wise ocean]

explaining the build stuff was very funny in that context

so, there's two different fight initiation combos you can do depending on what range you start with, which purely depends on the range you expect to need to keep from your opponent based on whatever nonsense they might start with outside of the usual round structure, because you're going first because your init is effectively like 20

5d chess purely based on "does my opponent have an out-of-turn-order means of making an attack at up to / closing the distance at medium range and attacking"

[bleak hazel]

Exalted is that rare thing, an RPG where the actual piloting is complicated enough to require some practice

or at least noting down all your whiteroom tricks beforehand so you can default to joseki 1 through 4

[bleak hazel]

I think purely due to the fact that both of us have setup to do + really mean counterattacks, Rival vs Graves actually starts with the classic medium range standoff

which allows everyone to get some cool lines in first

[wise ocean]

as is right and just

complete with the Two Counterattacks Two Perfect Dodges Okay Now The Fight Actually Starts situation

[marsh garden]

oh hm

misc, if you're there

i don't really know how ligier engages in a fight, would he ever bother to use his (relatively limited) social bullshit in SUNDERDOME, or should i not bother with intimacies

[velvet raft]

Intimacy: I Want To Punch Ligier In The Face (Defining)

Wait no

Defining Tie: Ligier (Belligierence)

[bleak hazel]

do a couple of basic ones but he probably won't be socialling

[bleak hazel]

I actually only have a semi-perfect parry, although it's still pretty good

Sids have to wait until E4 for Dead Spouse Defence or take particular MAs if they want a 100% chance of negating anything

to be fair DSD earns it that thing is absurd tempo

[wise ocean]

huh, neat. I kind of just assumed they had one in their combat kit somewhere; I suppose it is still worth going for the gigahit then.

[bleak hazel]

I would not recommend going all out all the time against Serenity In Blood since it still puts +1TN on your attack against a very high base parry

but very few builds can just straight ignore a giant decisive

only Solaroid Dodge has straight up "nope" at E2

Brawl has very few defences, Melee can buy off successes on the enemy damage roll by spending init

[velvet raft]

They get a bunch of anti unblockable/undodgeable/uncountable damage at E2, but true perfects are rare

[bleak hazel]

if you ever hear the term "pseudoperfect" it's the name for the almost universal "foo unfooable, also gain big noncharm defence boost" charms

true perfects are limited to E2 Solaroid Dodge, E4 Sid Brawl and Immortal Toad IIRC

[velvet raft]

Water Dragon comes close, no?

[bleak hazel]

oh yes and E3 Water Dragon

[velvet raft]

Pondering sending a Thousand Blades stylist up to get the Big L

[wise ocean]

I wonder if TB Infernal or TB Abyssal are where it's at

I suppose Infernals do seem a power notch above Abyssals the more I compare their non-combat charmsets

[velvet raft]

I think it's mostly that they have less bloat

Abyssals have some wild non-combat charms but they have more stinkers mixed in, often as prereqs

Meanwhile there are very few Infernal charms that aren't going to be compelling to somebody

Oddly, Infernals really suffer when it comes to fighting non-demon spirits in terms of how many charms they have to take

Their suite ends up being stronger than normal for said purpose

[wise ocean]

indeed, abyssals get it in two (plus a third you really should take) but infernals have a bunch of prereqs for some reason

I suppose I'm mostly squinting at Infernal Integrity and going "damn"

[velvet raft]

Yeah

Infernal Integrity is efficient

The big thing with Infernals (which I like a lot) is that most/all of their charm trees have a very specific vibe that has Implications For Your Character

Are you doing Infernal Archery? Congratulations, you're at your strongest wielding rage and hatred as weapons

Infernal Investigate? Say goodbye to your empathy, you're Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock * 1billion

[wise ocean]

Dodge is very odd in that context as well, Abyssal Dodge is very straightforward and Infernal Dodge is you're adorjan, or possibly cecylene, have you considered exploding your alternate selves

[velvet raft]

Socialize? You now exist to mock others brutally, point out hypocrisy, and develop extremely mean opinions about people

[wise ocean]

and Presence is God-King Hours

[velvet raft]

I love how much Presence can be either Christian Devil or Christian God depending on presentation

[bleak hazel]

wind clones are all adorjan all the time

she has a group of daughters who are all storms

[wise ocean]

you also can turn into sand and banish people to the infinite desert, thus the Possibly

[bleak hazel]

infernals are very scary albeit quite XP-inefficient outside their super mode

[velvet raft]

They are XP-inefficient but most of their charms are exciting

[bleak hazel]

maxed out green sun nimbus flare is a lot of kaboom but you also just put 7 charms into your damage adder

which I think is the balancing factor on being handed quite so much nonsense for free at E1

[velvet raft]

I think, kinda like alchemicals, they are operating on a slightly different design paradigm

[bleak hazel]

they are definitely extremely strong and have lots of juice

all the post-Sid books are more space-efficient than the pre-Sid books

Sids, Alchemicals and Infernals all have neat ways to package all the boring dice tricks into the fun stuff

[velvet raft]

Sail is one of the Infernal charm trees that says the least about who you specifically are, but it has an extremely strong image factor

You can be a quite-powerful summoner-type via Sail without going into Occult

Tentacles, horrible acid fog, summon terrifying aquatic monsters and demons

I was ultimately quite pleased with the charmset I was able to put together for a 75-xp Infernal for Hao https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aYumM7EqliH0AtMCL9C7M3LtYnxz282Wg-CTtKMfQJw/edit?gid=666810594#gid=666810594

[wise ocean]

surely core book/lunars/deebs/abyssals rework eventually 🙂

[bleak hazel]

eh nothing wrong with abyssals

[velvet raft]

Only Solars are in a really truly yucky spot

Even deebs are less worse than the others

[bleak hazel]

abyssals and lunars do everything just fine, just using rather more wordcount than they need

deebs need some polishing but not tons

they have kind of patchy internal balance

[velvet raft]

Lunars have kind of an oddity where they're uber-generalists before charms and then can pick up some really cool specialization tricks with charms

[marsh garden]

less bloat and more access/more free stuff/also Devil-Body being busted op

[wise ocean]

this is fair, alchs/infernals have spoilt me on the clarity of keys and now I'm like "please add these to Everything"

that said the CRB rework is the clear priority if anything

[velvet raft]

They'd need approval from Paradox, alas

[next delta]

I'm not sure they want to do it either. They've been pretty consistent in saying they won't iirc

[marsh garden]

yeah, which is a damn shame

[velvet raft]

They have kind of a lot of newer stuff that needs to be finished

Redoing core would be a big time investment

[wise ocean]

This is true, but the Solars Issue + other CRB nonsense surely takes priority over stuff like Liminals

[marsh garden]

i do want liminals

[chilly sluice]

I feel like making Solars and core stuff significantly more playable without having to adjust stuff would be worth it still

[marsh garden]

i don't uh

really care about them as a splat

but i want more necromancy lmao

and they'll be the last place we ever get a large influx of necro and ghosts, i assume

at least for a while

[chilly sluice]

I'm a bit annoyed that Gets and Liminals get less stuff, only because they have to do the books out of obligations

[velvet raft]

Liminals in particular still kinda bore me, although Gets have finally clicked for me

[prisma sun]

I mean here's the thing

Most of core is fine

[velvet raft]

The War In Heaven stuff is a whole lotta whatever

[chilly sluice]

Liminals are still whatever to me, yes

[prisma sun]

Solars just need a charm re do

[chilly sluice]

but even then, I still think they would have deserved a full book

[lament owl]

“Nobody cares about Gets and Liminals so why would we give them full book” of course they don’t care they don’t have any lore because they haven’t actually got a book yet-

[prisma sun]

Like all of core lore is good

[velvet raft]

The antagonists section and artifacts are also not great and there's a lot of mechanical cleanup that needs to be done

[prisma sun]

All of core mechanics are good though grappling is a little overpowered

[lament owl]

Maybe adjust sailing a little?

Though tbf I haven’t actually played with the sailing rules I just haven’t heard good things so maybe they are fine actually

[velvet raft]

I hear bad things about sail, and I know Craft works but is very difficult to understand

[chilly sluice]

Solar Craft feels like it has way too many charms for a start

[next delta]

It's hard to change craft because of all the charms in all the splats being written around it

[bleak hazel]

I firmly believe that Liminals and Gets are up next mostly because they were promises in the original Ex3 kickstarter and as such they're still bound to them

[marsh garden]

please. do not hurt my son

[bleak hazel]

the splats that weren't official promises got shuffled off to Apocryphals

[velvet raft]

For instance: dematerialization is a mechanical concept that is not laid out anywhere other than the charms used to counter it

[marsh garden]

it's so rare that a grappling mechanic is strong but not like, fuckbusted and mandatory ignores

[chilly sluice]

I very much believe that
but it honestly annoys me more that they are just kinda half assing them because they are obligated to

[velvet raft]

So we only know what dematerialization does by inference

[chilly sluice]

at that point I feel it's better to just come out and say we aren't interested in doing those books anymore

[velvet raft]

The other problem is that they kept mentioning Gets in particular >_>

[marsh garden]

well, they might never have been interested

since it's a different team

[bleak hazel]

we don't actually know how big their books will be

[marsh garden]

oh wait, as in gets are the one they don't want to do?

[bleak hazel]

I believe they'll be slimmer than full splats and Gets has 7 SMAs in it so presumably that's eating space

[marsh garden]

that's fucking tragic, i'm super interested in em

[velvet raft]

No I mean Gets keep coming up in other books

[marsh garden]

ahh

[bleak hazel]

but that could be "400 charms not 500 charms" or significantly smaller

[velvet raft]

They can't be shuffled aside as a quietly-forgotten thing in core at this point

Ironically I think the main lore reason they can't be quietly forgotten, the War In Heaven, is the least interesting part of their deal

[chilly sluice]

yeah I do find Gets much more compelling when they are just doing their own little Excrucian thing on the side

[marsh garden]

gotta disagree, i like the idea of it as a point of contention for them as a "group"

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/iLulLloKmbl.gif

^ a getimian

[marsh garden]

it's a unifying theme but one that doesn't have to be engaged with, so it can provide either a reason to stick with other Gets (and in doing so, hurt each other constantly by reminding each other that my world never was)

reasons to have inter-splat rivalries (in 'life', you were an Immaculate or otherwise have positive feelings on Heaven, and you're furious that your "kin" don't share your thoughts)

[velvet raft]

I'm okay with Rakan Thulio wrangling them to do his dirty work against heaven as the world's angriest cat lady in a more general sense

[bleak hazel]

I mostly find the War in Heaven is cluttering up the perfectly good and full space of "people who have reasons to fight the Sids" and also stealing the Sidereal heat in a way I dislike

gets are fun when they're doing local stuff

[marsh garden]

a way to meet the other bozos so you're around to be semi-hostile in abrading each other (i want to enforce my delusion on the world, and yours gets in my way)

[velvet raft]

But yeah the War In Heaven feels ... to me it actually feels like it's not petty and personal enough?

[marsh garden]

it's just a strong central theme that's not obligate, and so should more easily enable messy bullshit

while also easily being a revenge story of "look at why they took from you"

[velvet raft]

The part which is good is that Rakan keeps luring in stray cats and then hurling them at god

[marsh garden]

i'm also very excited for rakan thulio yeah lmao

i want to see the e9 or e10 sidereal nukeman

[bleak hazel]

I will say I'm biased here because at least to me the Get argument in the War on Heaven seems like the most solipsistic and facile bullshit possible from what we already know of it, but hopefully it will be done better in their book

[chilly sluice]

I just see Gets as Nobilis Excrucians, and that squares them pretty easily in my mind

[lament owl]

Yeah

“I have an unfalsifiable alternative view of reality that makes all my actions justified in my own head and you have to take that seriously” can be really fun!

[velvet raft]

I would rather the War In Heaven stuff were a fairly small subset of the Gets who actually stay loyal to Rakan "Crazyeyes" Thulio and most Getimian Problems be more specific to Getimians

[chilly sluice]

I had honestly assumed that the main motivation driver of Gets is recreating their own fate again
and just warping and messing with stuff in a local area

[velvet raft]

I would much prefer that

But the sids book plays them up as a problem in the context of Thulio's crusade, so that's my assumption

[marsh garden]

i mean, there are gonna be what

30-50 gets?

[velvet raft]

We don't know

[marsh garden]

i think we got a number but idr what

[bleak hazel]

64 getimians

[lament owl]

We have a number

Yeah

[bleak hazel]

for taoism reasons

[velvet raft]

Oh 64

[marsh garden]

right yeah

[velvet raft]

Okay

[marsh garden]

i cannot imagine

[lament owl]

Minecraft stack of those bitches

[marsh garden]

that thulio with three sids and eight gets

is going to be much more of a problem than thulio with thulio

but if he has 20-30 of them

that leaves a huge percentage of the group to do whatever the fuck

[bleak hazel]

I can't imagine he'd have much less than half, at the extreme

otherwise he's really not worth that much page space

[marsh garden]

while now being A Major Problem

i imagine it'll be something like a 50/50 split, or like 60/40

er

i guess 40/25

[bleak hazel]

from the Sid perspective he is at least a solvable problem in that you kill him and all of a sudden the Gets are no longer being turned into a coherent anti-yushan terrorist cell and you can actually talk to them

but I feel there's not much Thulio w/ Gets adds to the setting that Thulio w/ 5 Siddies doesn't

[chilly sluice]

side note
it was very funny to me to find out Rakan is actually a really powerful elder Sid
I had kinda assumed he was just Some Guy™ before, not this powerful

[velvet raft]

I am amused by the idea that Rakan keeps pulling Getimians into existence and like 2/3 of them say, "pass" to his ideas, I suppose

[marsh garden]

an actual threat

instead of One Angry Guy

[bleak hazel]

six exalts is very much a threat, and if they had to they could go "there are 150 sids now and he has like 30 traitors"

[velvet raft]

I mean, one elder exalt is a threat. 15 exalts is a terrifying force of chaos

[bleak hazel]

making a whole new exalt type that derives 90% of their drip from stealing Sidereal gimmicks sits poorly with me

at least over time that's gone to like 65%

[marsh garden]

i mean, we still haven't seen what their actual charmset looks like

[bleak hazel]

so hopefully it will decrease further

in Essence it's "Sids but with all the limits taken off", an Essence Get can devastate creation at E5 by using one charm five times

luckily essence jank is at best a rough guide

[marsh garden]

yeah, which i imagine is not going to be anything like 3e

[nova yew]

I think it is just essence jank

[velvet raft]

Look, I just want my fairy-tale weirdo kung-fu guys from a history that never was

[nova yew]

Cus I’m very excited for gets actually!!!

[lament owl]

I did flip through their essence charms

They have a really funny charm there where if you kill a god you can take control over the thing that get is the god of

Which I feel should make the jump

[velvet raft]

I want all the world being a stage

[nova yew]

I want to make them magical girls

[chilly sluice]

I personally see the draw of Gets as I've seen them described as sorta the opposite of Sids
you pull people into your own story, instead of fitting yourself into what's there

[nova yew]

They’ve got weird timeline bullshit

That’s so cool

[velvet raft]

Like that is I guess my big hope for Gets, is that they are the world's most dangerous theater kids

[bleak hazel]

I do not think every splat needs Opposite Day

but I will stop there

[nova yew]

I mean okay

Thats fair

But I like gets

[chilly sluice]

once again furthering the Strategist parallels

[nova yew]

Just

Straight up like them

[marsh garden]

i am also unambiguously excited for them

[velvet raft]

Yeah I don't need or want them to be sid reversi

[nova yew]

I don’t really care much about how they’re weird people with weird implications because that’s the fuckin point I love em for it

I am making my mahou shoujo gets

[lament owl]

…. Very random thing just entered my head through free association

Would heart eaters be enemies of fate/creatures of darkness

[marsh garden]

Utena get game would go

so hard

[nova yew]

I should watch utena

[marsh garden]

you should!

[chilly sluice]

probably Creatures of Darkness, I don't think they do anything explicitly anti Fate?

[velvet raft]

Creature of Dorkness

[marsh garden]

if you're fine with the content warning list being all of them, it's a truly beautiful show

[velvet raft]

ALL OF THEM

[nova yew]

It’s okay I watched magnus archives

Which had less

Or more?

[marsh garden]

visually, musically, and narratively

[nova yew]

I’m worried more about the SA stuff but I don’t think utena is gonna hit me with teeth and skinning

So I should be fine

[velvet raft]

The SA stuff is a significant component of it

[chilly sluice]

like a lot of the Strategist power set just fits for them to me, Eide and Flore especially

[velvet raft]

Exit stage left

[lament owl]

Sometimes I think about Goofy Hypothetical circles

And one of my favs is

Geitimian/Abyssal/Alchemical Apostate

[prisma sun]

I feel like most Getimains are okay with the War on Heaven just as a thing they do sometimes

[bleak hazel]

I feel I am definitely missing something considering I have never actually read Nobilis

[velvet raft]

@nova yew You know, if we were to take Nobilis Red Evening Sky and bring her back to Exalted, she'd probably be a Get rather than a Sid

[prisma sun]

Misc I read Nobilis and you don't get much

you gotta read like 4 other books in addition to Nobilis

to get what they have

[marsh garden]

glitch is peak

[nova yew]

Straight glitching it

[lament owl]

This is The Rot In Our Bones yeah

[velvet raft]

Really you only need to read Nobilis and Glitch

[bleak hazel]

but also I have this whole grumpy thesis about how I prefer being parsimonious with additions to settings that is beyond the scope of this channel because it's also me being a grognard about like four other things

[velvet raft]

Chuubo's helps but isn't altogether necessary

[nova yew]

“Real Wildlord behavior” i say, “this is just like the song of heaven” I say

[lament owl]

This is a real Creature Of Fable Moment I say, looking in the camera

[nova yew]

They also chill on ZEN MU THAT SHITS KICKASS

the og creation beta version

[fierce star]

Neither, IMO

and that's what makes them so terrifying.

[bleak hazel]

og Yu-Shan beta version, I think

[nova yew]

She accursed on my chosen one till I

[lament owl]

Honestly yeah, I could see that

[fierce star]

They Are Not As They Should Be, But They Are Still What They Were Made To Be.

[bleak hazel]

I think they're Creatures of Darkness

probably not Enemies of Fate

[lament owl]

Real “Become Somebody” energy on this character-

[nova yew]

Yeah

Actual coded vibes

[fierce star]

Nothing in their writeup states they're CoDs

[bleak hazel]

nothing in basically any writeups state anything is a creature of darkness, it's only mentioned in Golden Janissary

[fierce star]

I legitimately think they don't qualify as either; they are not enemies of the exalted host* (*politically) and nor are they aligned against fate

[velvet raft]

Core needs an actual mechanical glossary

[chilly sluice]

Adept and Wyrd would be a funny combo to have together
Double the iconic beam

[lament owl]

Things that make you a creature of darkness

Sun doesn’t like you
Funny Rat doesn’t like you

[fierce star]

I guess I should say nothing in their writeup implies creature of darkness to me, other than that they had to be sealed away. but lots of things have to be sealed away

[bleak hazel]

they are definitely enemies of the exalted host, they're the fucked up abominations produced by an Incarna's corpse, which was definitely enough to get them the treatment given that if they exist in your Creation they have done so since the Divine Revolution and are to an extent known features

they get everyone to end their blood feuds to put them back in the can whenever they show up

[fierce star]

Here's my take: I don't think they make it on the sun's shit list because he never got over his brother's death.

[velvet raft]

Misc: the big thing is that a lot of miraculous powers in the Nobilisverse run more on weird narrativium rules than on having the power to do a thing per se, so what we're kinda hoping for from Gets is that they're big stupid cheaters of that variety.

[fierce star]

I don't feel like Sol would get over Aurora's murder or ahve it in him to deny his Compassion for his Conviction, to use soem 2eisms here

[bleak hazel]

from what little I know of Nobilis this does seem like the Essence-style Press Button To Win unlimited bullshit charms which I'd rather they not have

[lament owl]

I feel like it’s a fair read

Could go either way imo

[velvet raft]

I think that's a matter of writing the charms well in a way that's not broken, rather than a problem with the concept

[bleak hazel]

I find it hard to conceptualise a manner in which they're not just Sids with the thematic limiters blown wide open, since we know they get basically identical MA prowess/resonance/etc to Sids, but I would be happily proven wrong

[velvet raft]

I'm just hopeful the things they do are different and based more on applying storytime rules to reality than what sids do

[bleak hazel]

at least in my opinion that is what Sids do, because fate is causality-but-make-it-mythic

[velvet raft]

A sid and a get fighting should probably be extremely confusing for both of them

[lament owl]

Ya know what I’m curious about

What their excellency is gonna be like

I am kinda just obsessed with excellencies though

[bleak hazel]

as soon as they showed up and went "we're Sids but cool and edgy and with anti-fate powers that hard counter yours" they parked the tanks too far deep on that lawn for me

[nova yew]

K

[bleak hazel]

I hope their book disentangles them from being Reverse Flash and goes more towards the internal alchemy stuff

[nova yew]

I think that’s also mostly rakan being an asshole

Rather than gets

[lament owl]

They could just be sid excellency again or they could do like

A bunch of motes for automatic successes or something

[bleak hazel]

I think the devs have mentioned they'd rather avoid giving them TN reduction because that's like, the entire Sid deal

[velvet raft]

Yeah I agree

[lament owl]

Ok ok so we get a new one! Exciting!

[fierce star]

ugh excellencies reminds me I need to tinker with my Auroral one, get it in a good state before I move on to their charmset lol

[lament owl]

I think my most cursed excellency idea was “+2 dice for 1 mote, but they can only use their excellency on dice rolls for charms”

[bleak hazel]

the most bullied exalts of all time

clashed to death in tragic accident

[fierce star]

Aurorals may add up to (Attribute+1) dice to rolls. Actions that uphold one of the Auroral's intimacies or exploit an opposing character's intimacies increase this limit by (Intimacy); when using their excellency on another character's dice roll, they may increase their dice cap by (Anima) if it would be higher than any applicable intimacy. Automatic successes count as two dice towards this limit, and static values may be raised by half this dice cap, rounded down.

(they can WP to Excellency an ally's roll within Short range, or within visual range of their anima banner)

[bleak hazel]

wow that's complicated

[fierce star]

i think it's just too much if/then statements for an excellency

yeah

[lament owl]

This borders on just Not Being An Excellency but I also like the idea of Vampire The Masquerade style Blood-Boosting as an excellency

Like an attribute based splat(maybe even just Not An Exalt) who as their excellency equivalent can Commit large amounts of motes to temporarily raise an attribute

[fierce star]

I could just steal the Sovereign's but make it attribute based

or just staright up steal it

lol

[velvet raft]

I wonder about ability-based excellencies with dice caps somehow based on the concept behind 2e Infernal excellencies

[lament owl]

Fun fact: I thought this was how Lunars worked before I read the lunar book

I don’t know why I thought that

[bleak hazel]

my friend Vix had a fun exigent that had an [attribute] cap and could then get double 9s/8s/7s for an applicable minor/major/defining intimacy by spending 1m per double, like Sids

just insanely volatile

either you really care and you hit E5 sid level and pop off massively with a good roll or you don't care and you're a deeb

the thematics were very "insane artist" so it fits

unsure I'd deploy something that variable for a full splat and it could maybe use Att+1 and then gaining +1/2/3 rather than +2/3/4 to smooth it out a bit, but it's fun for a one-off

[wise ocean]

cursed founding that shit

"we made a bunch more superhuman heroes but it turns out making more was really not a good idea"

[lament owl]

I was gonna start working on a deeb-like soon, which means I am gonna have to come up with some Weird Excellencies

[bleak hazel]

sometimes I remember the old core deeb excellency and go "maybe"