and even if you have that, you need to make a diff 5 check
#Exalted
south horizon
so for like
90% of the setting
they're stuck unless they have a sorcerous nearby to distort it
the spell in question is embrace of the jealous heart
and it is
SO GOOD
marsh garden
oh, because even though it's smackable it steals your weapon if you didn't have enough initiative to one-shot it with a decisive?
prisma sun
I am really ready to teach soakbeasts that hazards ignore soak
marsh garden
lol
south horizon
oh, because even though it's smackable it steals your weapon if you didn't have ...
not only tha tbut it's just
very " don't think about what it can do, think about what you can do with it" as a spell
as the goo ball doesn't like
vanish
and it doesn't stick to you
so say you're a Dawn caste with a focus on brawl and using sorcery as a side gimmick
stick it to a tree, then grab a mofo and through them torso first into said tree
they are now stuck to the tree
toss it onto someone's hand and they try to tear it off
bam
their hands are now stuck and they can't attack
south horizon
oh, because even though it's smackable it steals your weapon if you didn't have ...
also importnat thing to remember
initative is all or nothing
so unless they have a specific charm in place they have to burn their one decisive attack on getting it off
and it's hardness is just high enough that they can't just rest to base and do it
absolutely devious little goo ball
velvet raft
Hm. Pondering hypothetical Five Dragon PAOC stylist.
'i wish i were a deeb' but sid level
bleak hazel
there are worse routes
the tricky part is mostly that your offense is a little lacking
velvet raft
Thinking of the previewed secret technique, specifically
bleak hazel
Water Dragon and Earth Dragon have good defensive tools even for Celestials, but there's a shortage of action economy compared to most regular styles
counterattacks, clashes, flurries and so on
I suppose Brawl covereth many sins
and Bottomless Depths Defence + Dead Spouse Defence makes you very hard to kill
velvet raft
I'm inclined to say Water Dragon + Fire Dragon + Magical Materials for form charms
Agony-of-One-Hundred-Hells Technique from centipede is probably buried too deep in centipede to be reasonable to get, but it would be very attractive in combination with those
Although man, Wood Dragon Form becomes much more attractive with Five Dragon
bleak hazel
Fire Dragon isn't getting you much here
Water and Earth, mixed with either FMMF or Soulfire, if I had to pick
Air and Fire's Five Dragon riders give you your output with all that overwhelming, you may not need artifact unarmed or cheap Five Jade Fury
the fun thing about the aura-mixing clause on Five Dragon here is that you can sit in Earth Aura to buff the pre-form charms of Earth Dragon and then expend it to fuel Bottomless Depths if you need it, or do the same with Water for more damage
and Earth Dragon is really easy to enter, just get hit once
velvet raft
True, true
bleak hazel
you probably don't have many post-form charms anyway
if I had to make recommendation I'd say go for Water Dragon as primary, BDD is great and Theft-of-Essence Method plus White Jade is an amazing combo
velvet raft
Any thoughts on Earth + Wood, going into Earth for its big form-enhancing charm at the end?
bleak hazel
I dislike wood
FDF makes it usable rather than bad, but there's a lot of bloat in there
velvet raft
Yeah, assuming we only took Wood up through the Form
bleak hazel
Earth's capstone is really good but also really goddamn hard to get when you need four other immaculate forms
I wouldn't bother
marsh garden
f-four?
bleak hazel
PAOC is your high essence power, maybe with Dead Spouse Defence on top
marsh garden
poor fucking deebs
bleak hazel
oh, you don't need four immaculate forms to master one style, we're just getting them for this build because the gimmick is that it's an Immaculate Grandmaster Siddie
marsh garden
ah
bleak hazel
and as such knows all five to form
(presumably an immaculate grandmaster doesn't know all five to capstone because Anys Syn rolls around with a circle of them and there probably aren't five deebs with that much XP in the immaculate order)
velvet raft
Yeaaaaah, 25 charms just to get all five forms
Oof
"Just" he says
200 exp in charms, + another 95 in ability dots
Gets us to Essence 5, at least! :|
bleak hazel
I do wonder just how much XP Anys Syn has if you add up all her charms
velvet raft
Too much
velvet raft
Your average sid style is 10 charms or so, IIRC
velvet raft
Alright, so that's 60*12 just for SMAs
bleak hazel
in 2e, Five Dragon Style was the basic baby martial art for non-immaculate deebs
in 3e it's gattai
velvet raft
200 exp in charms, + another 95 in ability dots
Water and Earth wanting Strength and Dex between the two of them, and then needing Stamina to live, is extra rough, too
That alone might be a case for something other than the Earth form
I guess skipping Stamina isn't that bad (yes it is)
velvet raft
There's probably a case to be made for going Aristotelian and skipping Wood Style entirely
bleak hazel
I think that's the easiest one, yeah
fire and air are the other weak ones in this situation but they have much better form benefits
velvet raft
hmmmm actually
If we were grabbing the PAOC secret technique, I don't think its overwhelming bonus would stack with the one from Air Dragon
And Air doesn't give us a whole lot if we're not fighting like an air stylist besides that ...
Five Three Dragon Style
marsh garden
Three Dragon And Those Two Other Losers Style
velvet raft
Hm, Brawl doesn't have a way to keep Onslaught from refreshing, does it?
coral wraith
deeb brawl?
velvet raft
Sid
A versatile way
I think we know what we have to do, it's time to mix in EGOA form
velvet raft
build concept slowly evolves into one I've already done
coral wraith
the no onslaught refreshers for Sids are on Melee and Archery
I will say Orchestration of Conflict is Versatile
velvet raft
That's Melee, right?
buoyant summit
tis indeed
coral wraith
yeah
marsh garden
sorry, what does versatile mean again?
is it just "can do this with MA" or is it "can do this with anything"?
buoyant summit
Use it across skills, aye
velvet raft
Specifically compatible with MA
velvet raft
You also can't mix Versatile charms from multiple different abilities, IIRC
coral wraith
can enhance attacks and parries with Martial Arts if the
Sidereal uses a weapon compatible with that Ability.
Versatile Charms from multiple combat Abilities can’t
enhance the same action.```cross pollination across abilities would get whacky since there's generally a lot of overlap, which means stacking
MAs are usually more honed in on "do X"
marsh garden
wh-
that's a material type i haven't seen before
i'm glad the infernal book has more shit than just a pile of orichalcum
velvet raft
Infernal book has a bunch of misc demon materials, which Infernals are explicitly compatible with
I think there's only one orichalcum artifact of the bunch
marsh garden
yeah, the son bow
bleak hazel
I need to check the non-combat artifacts from that book, they're all good things for my craft abyssal to dip his toes into
albeit maybe with a green to black vibes swap
velvet raft
yeah, the son bow
This bow is my son. He has every disease
marsh garden
he also gives every disease
south horizon
You could very easily mix Thrown, Melee, and MA on stuff
fun fact
2e did this
It was a mistake
the horrors that you can make with martial ready
south horizon
wh-
technically we have, and it's been mentioned even in core though there were no artifacts there
Nightforged artifacts are made by the demon Alevula, ebon circle 2nd circle
they're made from people
:^)
coral wraith
yummers
bleak hazel
Versatile charms are effectively a Sidereal-only gimmick - Abyssals and Infernals have a couple, but they're splat basics rather than proper combat charms - the steal-motes ability that every Abyssal tree has and replace-dex charms to make it less of a godstat
Lunars and Alchemicals don't care, since all their charms are compatible with all martial arts by default
they don't get Mastery, but honestly omnicompatibility is better a lot of the time, especially with their tendency to roll around with massive soak/hardness even without armour
south horizon
mhmm
I don't think any mastery effects have been
As insane as the ones in Core
for a long while
same with terrestrial though that as a mechanic is still something i wipe my whole ass with and toss into the gutter in any game i run
marsh garden
waow
south horizon
terrestrial is just a feels bad tag
bleak hazel
Thousand Blades has godly mastery but that's because it's generally one layer higher than it should be at all points
south horizon
tru
bleak hazel
1kBlades sans mastery is a reasonable martial art
bleak hazel
it feels like they thought "this makes you Gilgamesh so you clearly need to be as boringly overpowered as Gilgamesh is once you get all your swords"
bleak hazel
I feel people would like Terrestrial a lot more if it was simply the baseline and then there were two buff lines written underneath most charms
south horizon
indeed
bleak hazel
but in general I think it's a lot more reasonable on the newer MAs
bleak hazel
eh, I think it's sensible enough, otherwise everyone just ends up ignoring the immaculate MAs and the native combat trees and beelining Righteous Devil or VBOS
my complaints with deebs are mostly in the native charm department
there are some comically bad early charms in deeb melee
tulip folio
my complaints with deebs are mostly in the native charm department
I really dislike this for deebs.
bleak hazel
apparently the reasoning there was that the excellencies with their extra little perks were totally dominating a lot of the E1 charms, which to me indicates instead that the E1 charms are too puny
tulip folio
It's just such wasted book space to have to write 'New excellency for every single ability', that costs room for interesting E1 Charms.
bleak hazel
apparently new devs agreed because Terrestrial Exigents have more juice
I do quite like the unique excellencies, admittedly
brawl one very fun
tulip folio
I actually really liked the corebook excellency for DB as a basic but functional one.
Same ability + spec cap but it came with a universal 'You can spend a willpower after rolling to reroll up to (essence) failures'
bleak hazel
that was extremely strong, to be fair
ate willpower, but it was basically "spend juice to be solar for a roll"
it was fun though
tulip folio
It was but it gave them a unique and interesting excellency and, for my brainworms, made them combo really well with Sidereals
'Good Dragonblooded Friend, Enjoy my Prophesy that reduces your TN. It makes your rerolls so much better'
bleak hazel
fair
I do think it rather heavily skews deeb builds towards "find a high-intensity all-in like a clash build, pump WP, crunch one on every roll that matters, win before it runs out"
on a side note: working on my bureaucracy abyssal
tulip folio
I think I might be giving the corebook devs too much design credit though, as in my brain that excellency sits in 'It makes Wyld Hunts where a Sid helps DB better than the sum of its parts'.
bleak hazel
hell, it makes wyld hunts better than the sum of its parts on their own, because three to four deebs can just mash that excellency on the first two rounds of combat and I would be very surprised if 99% of celestials aren't instantly smeared across the wall
although to be fair that's kind of how it already works, it just takes longer
tulip folio
The Architect Excellency amuses me a lot because like...90% of the time it's just a garbage excellency and then the one time they get to fight In Their Home City, they are just absolutely bodying a DB with their solar-tier excelency.
bleak hazel
Sovereigns get to be the spiritual successors of Theion, they absolutely suck unless they are Going In
not that they have any choice because they have about two personal motes to rub together
velvet raft
Sorcerers do get a lot of nice toys for mass combat, don't they?
tulip folio
Yep. A mortal gets a lot scarier when he's got a size 3, might 2 battlegroup of demons or elementals.
tulip folio
...vague pondering: Do we have any First Circle Squad Leader Demons?
I'm sorta pondering 'what demon would a mortal sorcerer summon to lead his other demons in combat'
coral wraith
like a commander? we do not
velvet raft
An especially reflective blood ape :D
tulip folio
nods
velvet raft
From Voy's server:
All of this, Dim Lustre relates quickly to Hào-Guntur about the band marching towards the ruined village. He is still sitting by the riverbank, having barely moved. Dim Lustre is an erymanthus of unusual poise, discipline, and red fur, somewhat more roundly built than some of his kind. They met back in Malfeas, and have been friends since — or at least Hào would like to be, but the demon seems to prefer a service relationship, even given the loose bonds of summoning that he typically insists upon. It just seems kind of smug and annoying to get up on one's high horse about being the sorcerer in the relationship.
tulip folio
I might add that to my list of 'things I might homebrew up'
coral wraith
go my War-spec demon
tulip folio
Oh, Baidak would be perfect!
velvet raft
Baidak?
tulip folio
Sigereth's soldiers. They got a very basic 'I dunno, use mortal statlines and give them mindless' in the corebook.
But they're a full First Circle Demon
Fers Baidak (The Vizier/Bishop loking guys) back in 2 had 8 dice for War and an excellency and charms related to battle planning
bleak hazel
tulip folio
Exactly
It's very funny that Baidak's versions are literally just 'Pawn, Knight, Bishop, Rook'. XD
But yeah, I might do up the various Baidak as minions...and I have a funny idea on how to make them both a Safe Demon to summon and a risky demon to summon.
Soldier of Sigereth: A failed attempt to bind a Baidak appears successful and the Baidak will follow orders. However, they have no intimacy towards their master and if Sigereth commands, they will immediately turn on their summoner.
main issue there is that players do know when they fucked it up
tulip folio
Oh yeah, this is less for 'Stabbing players in the back' and more 'texture/setting stuff'
bleak hazel
fair
tulip folio
As mortal sorcerers don't know. XD
Anyway, I'm off to look at Infernal War
As obviously I'd want to tone the charms down for a demon
But infernal war has a lot of that 'feed my guys into the meat grinder' leadership stuff.
Cold Calculations (4m; Reflexive; Uniform; Instant; Essence 1) The Fers Baidak directs an allied battlegroup within short range to protect a non-battle group with a reflexive defend other action.
Baidak and Mortal battlegroups are doubly affected, gaining a +1 Parry bonus for the purpose of defending their charge until their next turn. However, they also suffer a point of Magnitude damage whenever they successfully defend their charge an attack this way, as the Fers Baidak aggressively trades pawns for valuable pieces.
How's this seem?
Just absolutely feeding mortals into the woodchipper to keep important guys alive.
tulip folio
The intended 'vibe' is basicly 'You are playing chess against a computer'
It's not smart
But it's Done All The Calcuations
marsh garden
hm
i think i've got...tentatively successful changes for raijin and misc's earlier criticism on an artifact?
if either of y'all are still around, or if you'd be willing to take a look iki, i'd appreciate it
velvet raft
Yeah, normally you gotta be at least a sid to do identity theft without killing someone
tulip folio
if either of y'all are still around, or if you'd be willing to take a look iki, ...
I'm happy to look at things!
marsh garden
marsh garden
I'm happy to look at things!
tulip folio
Due to the moonsilver in its construction and their affinity for death, oaths, and arcane connections, Lunar Exalted are resonant with Oizys.
I'd be tempted to go with 'Characters resonant with moonsilver are also resonant with Oizys' but that's a very small thing
marsh garden
honestly i specifically called out lunars because it's not just the moonsilver
it's also that lunars are the other Flagship Necromancers, and this is about being Extremely Normal About Ties
tulip folio
Once per round, when the Anchor makes an attack, threaten, or read intentions roll against a single character, Oizys's bearer may pay 2 motes, branding the target with a bruise-dark Mark of the Beast. This cost is waived if the Anchor rolls at least 4+ extra successes on the roll.
A living character with at least one Mark of the Beast is battered by visions from Oizys's wailing ghosts, and suffers a -1 penalty to Evasion and Resolve while in close range of its bearer. With four Marks of the Beast, he withers beneath the terrible weight of death's unblinking gaze. He must spend an additional Willpower to resist influence rolls, and up to (Lifeline) of his 4s subtract successes on all rolls against undead, necromancers, or the Anchor.
So my concern here is...how does someone avoid this.?
marsh garden
was too much overlap lol
tulip folio
There's no way to shed it or avoid it
marsh garden
oh, that wasn't something the others called out as a problem at all
tulip folio
So it's just 'If this guy exists for 4 rounds, people are shit out of luck'
marsh garden
oh i also keep forgetting to mention when it falls off, but
that's not a combat scenario thing
automatically sheds all of em after not being in medium range of the bearer for a scene
but that doesn't address your issue
tulip folio
Yeah, my concern is there's charms to reflexively make an influence roll so they can go '2 motes, reflexive threaten, 2 more motes guy has -1 evasion for the entire battle'
Where that didn't even take an action
If that makes sense?
south horizon
i didn't call it out as an issue mainly due to the 4stack penalty
being potent but somewhat unreliable
marsh garden
round gate, successful roll only, some method to clear marks?
unsure which direction you think it needs to take
or how much "you have to spend motes on this every single time and it's per-dude" was as a pacer
south horizon
Like it can technically be an issue but i think it's something to olay with before i really call it to be tweaked personally
marsh garden
(and also that you have to spend them for a bunch of the evos as well)
I'll probably do that, then
south horizon
because having to roll a specific number means that it can eithe blow up or or peter out
and, on average
thisnis going to take 8m to get that effect uo
and keepingnthat effect up isn't quite the vibe of the other charms
as they spend marks typically, if memory serves
velvet raft
Hm, stealthy No Moon martial arts lunar with Perception and Intelligence as caste ... favored Dex is obvious, but favored Strength, or favored Stamina? I have considered Manipulation as an alternative and found it wanting for my needs.
south horizon
if u do.want ti make it more.interactable, u can makr it either a Shaping(Mind) or (Soul) effect, or make it a psyche effect
tulip folio
round gate, successful roll only, some method to clear marks?
I'd limit it to successful rolls yeah. Between attack, threaten and judge intentions you've got tha ability to hit resolve, guile or defence so it's not hard to lay on still.
But it takes a bit more work
marsh garden
alright
south horizon
oh, it didn't require successful rolls initially? huh, must've just assumed it did
marsh garden
nah, it's just been make one
initially the mark effect was just on eyes for me and gift of tears
bleak hazel
Just to check I'm reading this right, it doesn't stack, right? 3 marks penalised evasion by 1, not 3
marsh garden
as the thing my GM brewed up
correcto
there's a "1-mark threshold penalty" and a "four-mark threshold penalty"
somehow stacking up 16 marks would not make resists cost +4 wp
or -16 resolve
marsh garden
initially the mark effect was just on eyes for me and gift of tears
it was just a 1-2 "reflexive mark the target of your buddy's attack -> if your attack is blood drinking it gets a bonus"
but i thought stacking it up more was a neat way to go
marsh garden
alright, back from breakfast, did the charm segregation successfully make things more appropriately-costed and feel more coherent?
and did you have any other notes, iki?
tulip folio
Okay so the Fers Baibak isn't much of a direct combatant but it has this:
Miscellaneous Charms
Positional Play(8m; Reflexive; Instant; Essence 1)
The Fers Baidak guides itself or another through the creation of a stratagem using its impossibly precise calculations. This removes the penalty for knowing nothing about the enemy forces or their commander. In addition, the Fers Baidak chooses one stratagem. The threshold required for opponents to achieve this stratagem is increased by 2.
Antipositional Play(4m; Reflexive; Instant; Essence 1)
The Fers Baidak reflexively makes a rally roll. If it succeeds, and the rallied battle group is mortal, that battle group gains a minor Tie of Obedience to Sigereth and her agents.
How's this seem?
tulip folio
and did you have any other notes, iki?
Not off the top of my head, no. That was the big thing that jumped out at me.
marsh garden
cool cool, thanks
now time to read the lunars book so i can make bespoke lunar buy-in evocations that i will never use because i'm a fucking abyssal
i have nothing in response because i still do not know the system comfortably and also haven't looked at any splat's warfare in any way
other than like
a vague understanding of how battle groups work
tulip folio
That's fair. Strategic Combat is a Complete Shitshow that basicly just reads 'solars win' and this won't change that.
velvet raft
Can someone do me a favor and screencap relentless lunar fury for me? Currently AFB.
velvet raft
Danke Iki, much obliged
tulip folio
If you don't mind, how does this look for a 'Squad Leader Demon'?
velvet raft
I like it a lot
It’s simple but I can see why a sorcerer would draw on it, especially given it can ensure the sorcerer is defended
At the same time, it’s got a bit of the … treachery of the machine? Sort of vibe
I might add something about it extending that treachery to summoned demons under its command that are of a different type
Maybe not for pawns
But for higher ranks
tulip folio
Fair
velvet raft
If you put a battle group of blood apes under a Baidak’s command, they’ll be well-ordered but also loyal to the Baidak
tulip folio
nods
velvet raft
I think that could be fun
tulip folio
I have a plan for the base Baidak, which should be fun/have some synergy.
tulip folio
The base Baidak, the pawns, are going to have a counterattack charm that only works when they are using Defend Other.
tulip folio
so the bishop can give them the defend other that they can then use
The Knights are...honestly getting a full redo
The 2e ones were boring
Being basicly pawn+1
I'm going to make them automaton centaurs
And play more into the mobility side
marsh garden
Become Your Lover's Blade
Cost: 7m; Mins: Essence 3
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Whispers
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisites: Last Warrior's Unity
When the bearer uses Last Warrior's Unity to meld an artifact weapon and one of Oizys's arms, she is treated as Resonant with that weapon and ignores (Lifeline) Soak or Hardness on attacks with it, but she can't attack characters without a Mark of the Beast using that weapon.Whispers: When the bearer fatally incapacitates a non-trivial foe with her Lover's Blade, she can invoke Whispers to gain (his Essence + Marks) necromantic motes.
A Quiet World For Us
Cost: —(+4m, 4i, 1wp); Mins: Essence 4
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Become Your Lover's Blade
The bearer's attacks with her Lover's Blade deal aggravated damage to characters her Anchor has a positive Major or Defining Tie toward, and she can pay a four-mote, four-initiative, one-Willpower surcharge when she crashes one such character. He loses one Willpower, suffers -2 Defense and -2 Resolve for the rest of the scene, and if he dies this scene he immediately rises as a ghost with a Defining Tie of terrified obedience to the Anchor that can't be weakened. This ghost can communicate as normal, except that he is utterly incapable of vocalization while he retains this Tie to the Anchor.When the bearer invokes Become Your Lover's Blade's Whispers effect, she instead Reflexively makes a Shape Necromancy roll, adding (victim's Essence + Marks) successes to the roll. If she has four-dot Whispers, the successes are non-charm.
y/n on the spellsword lunar evocations
prisma sun
@bleak hazel Crane and Snake seem surprisingly synergistic
velvet raft
<@267391246509670400> Crane and Snake seem surprisingly synergistic
Hugely so, and both also go well with Centipede
The Hook Sword Styles are a fantastic group
bleak hazel
The only thing I dislike about them is that there's no hook-swords compatible SMAs, they're a really good group in general
fierce star
I went to go check a martial art with the idea of maybe makign ita project to update it to 3e, because it felt like adding hook swords to it wouldn't be a thematic break (though it wasn't an SMA), and then I remembered in ex2 it gave you a penalty to all actions with it if you weren't onboard a ship at sea. It has to be at sea. riverboat? not a real ship, eat penalty looser.
some rules are silly
tulip folio
No, they only put that sort of bullshit in Solar Sail these days.
fierce star
fierce star
lesse what does seafaring hero have... defense penalty that becomes tick-long if the attack hits, 'swing from a rope and grapple someone' as a charm that also inflicts a defense penalty and exceed normal movement limits, grapple charm that ends the grapple but forces the target to spend actions movign in one specific direction, form is (reduce environmental penalties) plus (take a penalty to your defense to reduce teh damage rolled against you), rider kick (damage + knockdown booster) where if you miss you keep flying in the direction you were moving in, Aura Farm To Boost Damage, damage inflicted also penalizes movement actions for awhile, and the capstone is a perfect dodge against non-magical/non enhanced range attacks that also provides a bonus to all dodge attempts
tulip folio
I could see playing with that mobility + gambit aspect.
fierce star
yeah, that was my thought
... here's a vague thing: what if it has a lot of charms with Terrestrial, but any practicioner can explicitly ignore the Terrestrial keyword if they're onboard a ship or in the water (and the terrestiral penalties are relatively minor)? (also any ship would count, even a canoe)
tulip folio
Could be cool.
Vague Pondering: maybe look into that Unbalancing penalty that some martial arts play with.
I can't recall which martial art uses it off the top of my head
But it let you fuck with people's movement and dodging
velvet raft
Martial arts styles born to water are an old samurai fiction/wuxia tradition
So I approve
fierce star
Weapons... in ex2, it was chain and rope weapons (including improvised versions of), slashing and short swords, and light armor. I think I could probably add hook swords to that because I see a lot of Pirate Wuxia Bullshit where they use hookswords.
velvet raft
In Lone Wolf And Cub there are several occasions where Ogami Itto takes a duel into a stream or shallow riverbed because he was specifically trained to fight in those environments
fierce star
hell yeah
velvet raft
Including a technique where he just hides his sword in waist-high water
marsh garden
oh that fucks
fierce star
🤔 capstone that is a form upgrade that is 'everything out to medium range of you is soaking wet, ignore terrestiral, if you would already ignore terrestrial gain mastery, movement actions by your foes in that range gain a penalty as a spectral ocean or river flows around you'. Maybe a little too 'this is just a water deeb charm'? hmm.
wwell it's less weird than gazellecarp so i'm penciling it in
marsh garden
ohg
shit
"ignore terrestrial add mastery" actually reminds me
how sane is "7 mote indefinite supplement to last warrior's unity (1m), treat the fused weapon as Resonant"
velvet raft
oh that fucks
I gotta warn you that Lone Wolf And Cub is, in addition to being absurdly cool, completely insane and overflowing with misogyny (whether it's the author's misogyny or that of the society he's depicting, I'm uncertain about, but the portrayal of Edo period Japan is both well-researched and unkind to women)
velvet raft
It is one of the best revenge stories I've ever read
But
Great story, only 90% caveats
velvet raft
Often
marsh garden
albeit for varying reasons
fierce star
It's also just generally an important story, honestly
marsh garden
oh, gk
fierce star
like, historically, lone wolf and cub has been globally influential. I believe it's considered the origin point for 'older parental figure and small child go on hyperviolent adventures' as a trope
marsh garden
before i continue poking at further evos, could i get your eyes on an arti?
velvet raft
Sure
marsh garden
i have badgered others about this and believe i have long worn their patience
velvet raft
Just bear in mind I am not confident in my grasp of balance or homebrew
marsh garden
fair
every opinion helps tho
I'll just take these with an according grain of salt, as warned
velvet raft
It's all over
It's the story of a bad man trying to get revenge on other bad men for something that didn't really need to happen but did, and also there's a baby with him.
velvet raft
The whole thing is both phenomenally cruel and takes place in a society where that sort of pointless cruelty is completely normal.
And it has some amazing fight scenes
fierce star
Seafaring Hero Style
Seafaring Hero Style is ancient, dating back to the Primordial War. It was invented by Lintha ng Golden MacHail, a Night Caste and traitor to his family; entitled 'The Flame That Stood Against The Sea', he fought a war against Kimbery that engulfed all of Creation's west. Today, however, the style can be found anywhere in creation where people fight in water or on boats; rivers, lakes, streams and seas alike. The Lintha, as a people, refuse to practice it, calling it the Blasphemous Art.
Practicioners of Seafaring Hero rarely gather in dojos or temples; instead, it is often taught in one long, unbroken line of master to apprentice, onboard ships and along river banks. Artists learn to fight shoulder-deep in running water; swinging from rigging and trees; they are drowned over and over again until the feeling of water in their lungs is as natural as air. But most importantly, they learn to move, and to use the movement of their enemies against them.
Seafaring Hero Weapons: Seafaring Hero uses a variety of weapons; whips and fighting chains, as well as improvised versions. Short swords, chopping swords, and hook swords are all common, as are ship's gaffs and other polearms. Unarmed attacks with Seafaring Hero are sweeping, wave-like motions that contain more energy than they seem, all the better to strike against water's resistance. Unarmed attacks with Seafaring Hero may be stunted to deal Lethal damage.
Armor: This style is compatible with Light armor.
Complimentary Abilities: Sail is the primary ability complimentary to Seafaring Hero, but practicioners also develope competency in Athletics, Resistance, and--perhaps surprisingly--Performance, as the katas and kiais of the style are often styled on sea shanties of the West.
Born to the Water: Many Charms within Seafaring Hero style have the Terrestrial keyword. Any practicioner of the style that is onboard a ship--sea, lake, or river bound, from the smallest canoe to the largest bulk trader--or at least knee-deep in water, ignores the Terrestrial keyword, even if they normally could not.
@velvet raft any thonks?
velvet raft
It's wildly weird and cool
velvet raft
It's hard for me to judge mechanically given how weird and interactive and complex it is, but it definitely feels like a 5-dot artifact, for all that
velvet raft
and fuels its bearer's vicious envy of her companions' attention
As an extraordinary pedant, I would note that envy is of things you don't have, and jealousy is of things you do, but I need you to understand that something is wrong with me when I say this >_>
marsh garden
haha
velvet raft
(Also nobody actually cares about the distinction)
marsh garden
I mean
velvet raft
(They're functionally synonyms)
marsh garden
i vaguely knew that
and, importantly
your anchor doesn't need any kind of Tie to you
this is your obsession with them
it may very well be envy
the attention you don't have, that your enemies are getting
you just gotta be a freak
velvet raft
hahaha
But yeah, it feels at least mechanically mad enough to hang out with stuff like Stormcaller
marsh garden
nice
velvet raft
Where the artifact is kinda gonna be central to your schtick
marsh garden
i gotta make more lunar-facing charms too
er, evos
because it's important to me that theoretically a non-abyssal with a completely weapon-based build can theoretically use these as real and powerful prosthetics
or an unarmed build
just want to make sure it looks and feels like something that can have a future outside of the bespoke pc
tulip folio
```
Seafaring Hero Style
Seafaring Hero Style is ancient, dating back to the Pr...
Silly Pondering: Add a carve out for Architects of Port cities.
coral wraith
Do we have any concrete information on the Sword of Creation beyond the little bits scattered through the books?
prisma sun
Do we have any concrete information on the Sword of Creation beyond the little b...
Like what?
coral wraith
Like what?
This is all I found lol
the Great Contagion, their vanguard broke through
Shogunate lines and penetrated the southwestern
Blessed Isle. This was the Empress’ first target upon
mastering the Sword of Creation; she deluged them with
a hundred million iron needles, such that the region’s
soil remains red with rust.```Return of the scarlet empress goes into it more
wise ocean
I assumed it was some kind of orbital satellite network but Exalted-flavor
marsh garden
i assumed it was some kind of nuclear-level sword beam that just sprayed whatever the fuck effects it needed to
prisma sun
It also lets you project a giant hologram that lets the entire isle and threshold see and hear you
ruby geyser
in 2e it was a network of manses with automatic weaponry mounted on top iirc
south horizon
ye i doubt 3e is going to dive into it with any depth
ruby geyser
2e was a lot bigger on magi-tech than ex3 has been so far
south horizon
it's not that important to the avg game.and leaves it free for STs to tweak with if it does come up
coral wraith
neato
prisma sun
In 2e it was a giant laser that shot from the imperial manse specifically
bleak hazel
the Sword of Creation/Realm Defence Grid is a network of war manses controlled from the Imperial Manse, we know that
the only stories of its activation are basically "orbital biblical punishment generator" - giant tsunamis, rains of blazing iron from the sky, that sort of thing
not an actual sword, I believe
coral wraith
gotcha 
fierce star
The most i've come to interacting with the RDG in a game is when my DB sorcerer-engineer laid a hundred miles of magical detcord across the draogn line feeding into the imperial manse from the imperial city
nova yew
i love that the other source of biblical punishments is just the Heaven Air Force
but since its made up mostly of air and water elementals they just look like storms and floods
bleak hazel
the Aerial Legion is great
bleak hazel
entire army of top tier magical badasses led by squads of dragons and they never do anything because they are basically a nuclear arsenal
bleak hazel
and are sometimes annoyed about this fact
nova yew
they want to do things SO BAD
theyre constantly begging to demolish a place in storms at the slightest provocation
(them actually refusing to attack during the labor strike is notable as a result due to how eager they otherwise are)
bleak hazel
the fact I always found unreasonably cute about Exalted elementals is that if you have a good spyglass you know when the weather is going to get bad because you can see the sky bears towing the storm clouds in
fierce star
I love elementals and the elemental courts
I know someone at one point told me there wa sa push in ex3 to make the elementals less... like, sapient/interesting/bureaucratic? based on the wording for summon elemental in core
nova yew
that...doesnt really seem true
"summon elemental" is worded as like, a spell that creates one from the essences of the world
and if they gain enough oomph by the end they tend to stick around after their servitude but
from what ive Read they certainly seem interesting and sapient
fierce star
yeah that's how I always clocked it but I also have three editions worth of fluff floating around inside my skull
south horizon
I think that's more core not using their elemental antag slots well
also summon elemental just. . . kinda being very under supported
tulip folio
the Aerial Legion is great
Yu Shan 'I support our troops' sticker and it's got a cyclone on it
fierce star
honestly we really could use an ex3 roll of glorious divinity
south horizon
real
adversaries and hundred devils were both rather
which tracks, most of them were two page blurbs written individually
rather than intended to be a singular book
prisma sun
In the server we discovered the solar spell to summon a battlegroup of demons isn't shit if you get the charm to turn them all into familiars
prisma sun
It is kinda shit
south horizon
disagree because demon army one command is pretty good
and doing that via normal summoning would take forever or take a working
especially because it can just be " an army you already know"
south horizon
ye
coral wraith
the thing about that spell is that its cool, sure
its also outdone by Invoking the Eyeless Face six feet to the left
velvet raft
... so I don't think this works RAW (always a good start), but I'm pondering the
And I'm pondering Desert Basilic Diadem, which lets a Lunar slot a hearthstone into their own body
And I feel like it would be cute to allow Invulnerable Skin of Bronze to count as light armor through the combination of the two
tulip folio
That's fun
tulip folio
Pondering what to do with the Baidak Rook. The Base Baidak is the 'you get plenty of these fuckers' basic infantry with both Bow and Blade, the Knight is the Mobile Striker being very fast and alpha strike-y and the Bishop is a Squad Leader, the Rook has me a Little Unsure.
The 2e version had them as Living Siege Weapons, being 'I smash walls with my hammer'
wise ocean
Designated feat of strength + smash attack guy?
tulip folio
brb, giving a first circle demon heaven thunder hammer.
😛
More seriously: Yeah, could likely do that.
...silly pondering:
tulip folio
Designated feat of strength + smash attack guy?
Rook Lift (10m, 1wp; Reflexive; Uniform; Essence 2) The Sang Baidak's successful Slam or Smash Attack turns the unfortunate victim into an impromptu projectile. Anything within close range of the victim's point of impact suffers a one-time environmental hazard with difficulty 4, Damage 3L. This environmental hazard has Damage 5L against battlegroups. Once per scene.
Silly idea to make it very scary vs mortals but not scale the offence vs exalts
Give it a charm that is 'This Attack can't be blocked without defensive magic'
An excellency? Yeah, that's enough to parry fine
But it means that a Parry 5, evasion 3 mortal is in a bad state trying to blockade this thing
Wall Shattering Blow (5m; Supplimental; Dual: Essence 2) An attack from the Sang Baidak ignores cover short of full cover and can't be blocked without defensive magic. The damage roll gains Double 9s if the attack is Withering or Double 10s if the attack is Decisive.
I love hitting motherfuckers with motherfuckers
velvet raft
I think the ultimate play with a Lunar is to give them a name including an animal that is not their spirit shape
velvet raft
Thinking about the cool Starmetal Smashfists in alchemicals
prisma sun
wouldn't alchemicals kinda never get access to starmetal
velvet raft
No
marsh garden
i assume autochthon has its own sky, right?
he can probably just
do the same shit
prisma sun
They're almost all underground aren't they?
velvet raft
i assume autochthon has its own sky, right?
Not really, but Starmetal is just as accessible in Autochthon as anything else
The dude has ethically sourced soul steel
prisma sun
Coward lore tbh
nova yew
I hate the ethical soul steel
prisma sun
All soulsteel should be unethical
prisma sun
I hate ethic-creep
nova yew
But the point is that it’s evil!!!!!
marsh garden
okay lemme actually
velvet raft
He always has iirc, he’s a primordial
nova yew
It’s the evil metal!!!!!
marsh garden
go post someone's take that i really liked re: soulsteel
velvet raft
He cheats, and also processes souls constantly
marsh garden
the reason that i'm not really captured by it like i am everything else abyssal
nova yew
Yeah but the point is that the souls in the soul steel are in some kind of pain
So the souls he puts in there should be in pain
velvet raft
Soulsteel caste alchemicals make excellent paladin types
nova yew
I get that he’s a primordial and can cheat
But I find this cheat to be less fun than other cheats
velvet raft
I dunno what to tell you, all six magical materials are represented in Autobot
… okay funny thought
marsh garden
found it
nova yew
I dunno what to tell you, all six magical materials are represented in Autobot
No that’s what I’m saying
marsh garden
i think that what i want out of soulsteel is a reason to care
velvet raft
The sids are always scrambling for starmetal, right?
marsh garden
rep it by mulching his people?
nova yew
I want the metal to suffer
marsh garden
fair enough
nova yew
It can be his own people or it can be from his own soul material-whatever
It shouldn’t be having a good time
prisma sun
found it
Okay but I still think it sucks if you just have someone go "actually it's not a problem for me because I just Don't."
It's just a no-sell of an ethical dilemma
nova yew
Actually you are intended to interact with the souls within a little
velvet raft
The sids are always scrambling for starmetal, right?
If locust-y things happen, imagine the sids setting up trade relations with the octet to get more starmetal
nova yew
They’re insensate by default but become more conscious when you use the artifacts
buoyant summit
And twisting the souls inside my sword to literally help me ragebait people
nova yew
“You’re not meant to interact with the souls/they’re always insensate” is just not true
marsh garden
oh, nothing i'd read in the book said anything about them being in any way conscious
i did see "you can temporarily soothe them"
but nothing about interacting with them
where's that on?
i'll have to read up more
velvet raft
You can make their pain worse *or better*
I might suggest that no one would be as qualified as alchemicals (and Autobot) to do the latter, even just by default
nova yew
Well yeah
But it shouldn’t be “ethical”
Make it dubious
It shouldn’t ever be 100% okay
marsh garden
LOL
prisma sun
Just that it's tinged with death and may be a sign of the blight
velvet raft
In fairness, I think we don’t really know what the source of Autobot soulsteel is
marsh garden
"DON'T WORRY 'BOUT IT BRO"
nova yew
but nothing about interacting with them
Mostly the section about how ritual and necromancy can heighten pain or soothe them, and many artifacts clearly having some amount of will(like huskflayer)
velvet raft
Nor have we ever
nova yew
WH
marsh garden
okay that's really fucking funny
nova yew
I DONT KNOW IF ITS ETHICAL THEN
velvet raft
Just that it’s not made the normal way
prisma sun
Does seem to be souls still
marsh garden
that's peak
velvet raft
That’s what I meant
velvet raft
It’s not made by lashing together a bunch of guys and beating them with hammers
tulip folio
Autocthonia also has unethical soulsteel. Estacia invented the creation way of doing it for half forged.
nova yew
I don’t think it’s ethically sourced
Or at least
We can’t really know
prisma sun
I think if it's called Soulsteel you can still assume it's made of souls and thus probably unethical
nova yew
Let it be known I’m a newcomer to this fandom and will kill the old guard with rocks and bees
tulip folio
In 2e it was more 'self defence Soulsteel'
velvet raft
But what I meant was “not made via murders”
dense verge
Ethical Soulsteel is a recurring bit I like to use because there are many funny ways to approach "ok but if i refine peoples souls into crafting materials THIS way is it a cheat code into being good" and see how the answer is "no"
nova yew
Yeah
dense verge
its like how the coyote can never catch road runner
buoyant summit
I think the closest you get to 'not morally awful' with soulsteel is
tulip folio
Where the Soulsteel was made from a precursor race that tried to enslave him and he turned thier own machines back on them in self defence.
marsh garden
so the mask of winters
buoyant summit
In an extremely specific context
velvet raft
Yeah halfway into this conversation I realized Karen wasn’t using the same verbiage as me, my mistake
dense verge
true!
buoyant summit
And even then that is still killing someone and voring them into your alloyed iron
nova yew
Where the Soulsteel was made from a precursor race that tried to enslave him an...
Mmmm that one’s bad too
buoyant summit
I still think eternal torment is always unethical.
That is why I said the closest to, not even 'good', but 'not morally awful'
nova yew
Yeah halfway into this conversation I realized Karen wasn’t using the same verbi...
It’s fine
Though I’m noticing this is a common thread with my exalted interactions sometimes
dense verge
"ok but if i have a guy in my Inner World and make him into soulsteel is it good" no, youve made someone into being just to suffer
things of that nature
prisma sun
Ok but if I don't like the guy it's fine though.
wise ocean
making soulsteel out of lab-grown homunculi off the homunculus production line
nova yew
Mm
fierce star
but there are explicilty just veins of the stuff that can be mined normally
nova yew
Volunteer soul steel is uh
velvet raft
I guess if I wanted to explore this, I’d kinda think of soulsteel in autobot as similar to the Cluster in Steven Universe
nova yew
but there are explicilty just veins of the stuff that can be mined normally
Same with the underworld!
And it’s still uh
buoyant summit
Estasia gets their soulsteel from volunteers iirc
Oh you mean from people indoctrinated by a surveillance state? (I am being pithy)
nova yew
Er
prisma sun
Waking Smith did just turn 100 cowards into a scythe
nova yew
Bad
fierce star
yeah but the thing is if soulsteel in autochton has to be made from omrtal souls there shouldnt' be any souls left to reincarnate, above and byeond the current 'shit we're running low' issue
velvet raft
I guess if I wanted to explore this, I’d kinda think of soulsteel in autobot as ...
The metal is not in a desirable state but it can be given some measure of peace and is this way by default in Soulsteel Caste alchemicals
nova yew
yeah but the thing is if soulsteel in autochton has to be made from omrtal souls...
I assumed it was made from autocthon’s soul bits
fierce star
Lux is like the shining example of 'Light Is Not Good'
mighty rover
Estasia gets their soulsteel from volunteers iirc
wait like from 1984
nova yew
The metal is not in a desirable state but it can be given some measure of peace ...
Oh that’s cute actually
I like that
buoyant summit
I
fierce star
well yes it is from autochthon's soul bits, implicitly if not explicitly
tulip folio
Half-Forged are also in a weird state where the guy who got forged into soulsteel is still about and you can ask him about it. That's why it's 'Half'. XD
fierce star
but if you dont' want it to be ethical then it kind of can't be because autochthon isn't running out of soul
tulip folio
As they forged part of their soul into soulsteel, not the whole thing
buoyant summit
The metal is not in a desirable state but it can be given some measure of peace ...
That's a metaphor for for fascism but idk quite how to word it yet give me a minute
tulip folio
In particular, their lower soul
nova yew
but if you dont' want it to be ethical then it kind of can't be because autochth...
I mean I think the unethical part
buoyant summit
I am being 100% serious
nova yew
Is the fact that it’s still in pain
fierce star
I mean so is autochthon
fierce star
'being in constant pain' is a facet of his exitance
fierce star
soulsteeling part of himself might even be a reflection of that, acutally?
nova yew
IT JUST MEANS HES IN PAIN IN A DIFFERENT WAY
It’s certainly dubious in an interesting way
buoyant summit
It would be extremely funny that if most Soulsteel in Autobot is made from him, and we stop him from being in pain
nova yew
But I’ll fight the assertion that it’s ethical
bleak hazel
it is Crimson time
bleak hazel
heavily weighted towards the top two
dense verge
crim
velvet raft
It's "ethical" in the sense that the people using it can, in fact, just find it in the ground
buoyant summit
it is Crimson time
AYYYYY ANOTHER ISAAC
fierce star
no no I think we're on to something here, autochthonian soulsteel being ar eflection of his chronic pain and illness in a different way from the blight
marsh garden
I still think eternal torment is always unethical.
the power fantasy spoilers (issue 8)
nova yew
That's a metaphor for for fascism but idk quite how to word it yet give me a min...
I like “the metal is in pain but if you make it into a cool robot it feels less pain”
That doesn’t feel like a fascism metaphor
fierce star
it's him turning htat pain into something of use
prisma sun
i'm really tired
buoyant summit
it is Crimson time
Look Upon Your Fellow Moonshadow
bleak hazel
"Dean Domino playing Sauron" would be how I'd describe Crimson in one sentence, the rest are various ornaments
nova yew
Except in the way that everything can be a fascism metaphor with some elbow grease
Plus I don’t want to throw away a concept just because it’s probably a metaphor for something bad irl
Else we wouldn’t have terrestrials
tulip folio
Soulsteel Alchemicals can Get Hugs, which inherently makes it better than other soulsteel 😛
nova yew
And they’re fun
buoyant summit
I like “the metal is in pain but if you make it into a cool robot it feels less ...
Mainly that Soulsteel Castes, especially in Estasia, are, well
Fucking Secret Police
And a common tactic by fascists is giving one population they still repress (in this case the souls that make up the Alchemical's Soulsteel) some advantage over the others (being part of A Literal Secret Policeman)
prisma sun
You can hug a soulsteel sword
marsh garden
"did I imagine this"
no sorry, i spent these last few minutes looking for it and then realized (because i am also tired) that literally every single fucking panel in this comic matters way too much not to spoil
so i did that
as i realized, as i posted
buoyant summit
So they can vent their frustrations at the fascist system, and their place in it
By beating the shit out of their lowers
nova yew
Mainly that Soulsteel Castes, especially in Estasia, are, well
Fucking Secret P...
Yeah but that also feels separate from “put the soul steel in a robot to make it feel better”
buoyant summit
And not actually blaming the system that put them there
nova yew
By beating the shit out of their lowers
Well I didn’t bring that part up
velvet raft
Okay, but there are lots of soulsteel castes who aren't Estasian fascist robots
marsh garden
Look Upon Your Fellow Moonshadow
do y'all use a template for this?
tulip folio
I think the Soulsteels are actually the Very Overt Police. Moonsilver is more the secret ones 😛
buoyant summit
And was mainly talking to gk lol
bleak hazel
Look Upon Your Fellow Moonshadow
I know a whole two of these
nova yew
I feel like we’re pulling a metaphor here that wasn’t there before
velvet raft
do y'all use a template for this?
fierce star
also soulsteel --yeah
nova yew
Or at least not the one gk intended
marsh garden
fierce star
soulsteel are more actual cops, they're not exactly predisposed to sneaky
buoyant summit
I am fully bringing up my own metaphor lol
nova yew
Fair enough
buoyant summit
The metaphor still works with garden variety cops
fierce star
they're Judge Dredd, is he secret police
nova yew
Sure
buoyant summit
I know a whole two of these
Which ones?
fierce star
... how is judge dredd secret police
prisma sun
Judge Dredd is like not-secret police
fierce star
i admit to not having read all the comics
buoyant summit
Karen was responding to me
fierce star
but I thought he was literally The Most Over--oh
fierce star
we have like six discussions gionng on I ugess
nova yew
Yeah
buoyant summit
We do indeed lmao
nova yew
It’s very funny
marsh garden
too many such cases, sometimes
nova yew
Exalted moment I guess
buoyant summit
PFFFFFFFFFF
bleak hazel
Which ones?
the Herald and Isaac, of course
marsh garden
poor isaac does not agree
prisma sun
Man
fierce star
nayway having gone back and did a short read: I think we're arguing past each other about the difference between 'ethically made' and 'ethically sourced'
prisma sun
Isaac should not have gotten a happy ending
fierce star
(and also can you ethically make something if doing so involves self-harm)
chilly sluice
I feel like if the Soulsteel in Autochthon is made from parts of his soul, he'd probably still continue to make it if he were to recover
nova yew
Isaac should not have gotten a happy ending
From the Bible or…
prisma sun
From Castlevania
chilly sluice
I feel like if the Soulsteel in Autochthon is made from parts of his soul, he'd ...
If anyone would suffer a little for their creations, it's him
tulip folio
I feel like if the Soulsteel in Autochthon is made from parts of his soul, he'd ...
It is in his very nature to suffer. I'm not sure he could stop even if he wanted to.
prisma sun
It seems like the implication is that Soulsteel is run-off or a "leak" of the soul-recycling process they undergo
fierce star
Well the big thing is that Autochthon can't fully recover. He can treat his symptoms but the Blight/his illness/all of that is permannetly part of him... unless you were to, of course, inflict fetich death and force him to recreate himself from base principles.
prisma sun
So it does still seem to be made of human souls
bleak hazel
I am looting Isaac for aesthetics more than character here
velvet raft
@nova yew Here's what I'd suggest (and this is headcanon): soulsteel-caste alchemicals, by dint of their soul gem, inherently connect the fragmented, inert-but-passively-uncomfortable souls that make up the soulsteel parts of their composition. They are maybe the most ethical use for soulsteel, because in a very real sense they give it a body again. Autochthonian understanding of soulsteel is shaped by this, and attunement for other alchemicals, when it happens, is assumed to carry a sense of responsibility. Making soulsteel on purpose is generally morally repulsive for all of the usual reasons (which means some of the Octet is happy to do it).
bleak hazel
he is a very good necromancer
chilly sluice
And I personally would also think that a fragment of a Primordial's soul would at minimum not suffer in the same way a bunch of mortal souls do
buoyant summit
the Herald and Isaac, of course
yeah idk why I didn't guess that...
The others are Cynthia Erivo who is mostly there for her appearance, below her is Leslie Odom Jr. as Aaron Burr in Hamilton, below him is Julie d'Aubigny/Le Maupin, a famous French opera singer, duelist, and bisexual (that last one is important), and to her left is Vivienne from Dragon Age Inquisition, a mage with ins into the Church and a political schemer
bleak hazel
and Crimson is big on the golems and weird summons
tulip folio
...where is this implied voy?
bleak hazel
Le Maupin I know as a historical figure but not by art, same as Burr
although I've never seen Hamilton
bleak hazel
Jean-Pierre from Ronin on Crimson's sheet is admittedly one that only people I have shown that film to will get, apparently
damn near nobody else seems to have watched that
prisma sun
nova yew
<@442685313018757130> Here's what I'd suggest (and this is headcanon): soulsteel...
I like that
That’s fun
buoyant summit
it is Crimson time
yeah I know maybe half these people; Dean Domino, Sauron, Isaac, and I know the woman from DE by face
prisma sun
Multiple soulsteel descriptions describe the steel as still suffering and having trapped ghosts
so it does seem like That's Still People
bleak hazel
yeah I know maybe half these people; Dean Domino, Sauron, Isaac, and I know the ...
well you got all the important ones
fierce star
Logistically I don't think it makes sense fo rall of autochthon's soulsteel to be People Made, there's just not enough souls for that
nova yew
“Tormented shades” is a lil unsubtle
velvet raft
I'm thinking of it like the Cluster
nova yew
Logistically I don't think it makes sense fo rall of autochthon's soulsteel to b...
Voy implies it’s a runoff of the process
Which
Could track
Lots of stuff left behind between reincarnation no?
bleak hazel
LRTB, it's Annatar, Dean Domino, Trevor Pendleton from Dishonoured, Isaac Castlevania, Joyce Messier from Disco Elysium and then Jean-Pierre from Ronin, which is in my opinion the best eurospy film ever made
and probably the best De Niro performance
prisma sun
My understanding is that it's "new souls" being formed from bits lost in the reincarnation process
nova yew
Said bits can still be quite aware or alive or capable of feeling
buoyant summit
OH TREVOR THAT FUCK
nova yew
In the case of hungry ghosts
buoyant summit
Sorry I'm knifing this asshole in a dark alley
fierce star
Not really, mostly just the lower soul. Which I guess if autokun's soulsteel is made entirely of hungry ghosts, that could be a thing, but I think you need boht parts to make soulsteel?
velvet raft
Anyway I was gonna propose Starmetal Thousand Blades Falcon Style Smashfist alchemical, but I feel like now I need to propose a soulsteel one instead
nova yew
I don’t think so
tulip folio
The Half-Forged are in a weird state there. Where they are partially forged souls but they also notably forge the part of your soul that doesn't reincarnate.
prisma sun
I think you just need ghosts
nova yew
Most of the stuff in the underworld is just made from higher soul
bleak hazel
Trevor and Vetinari were competing for the sixth slot but I think I got the vibes I wanted from Lord Vetinari from Joyce and Jean-Pierre instead
nova yew
Ghosts are only higher soul after all
tulip folio
Not really, mostly just the lower soul. Which I guess if autokun's soulsteel is ...
Nah, half forged are explicitly only the lower soul!
nova yew
Seems reasonable that it’s just soul stuff in general
bleak hazel
and I wanted even more blunted spite than Domino was capable of providiing
prisma sun
Most Soulsteel is made of Higher Souls because Higher Souls are just higher quality Stuff
fierce star
ah, well there you go then, autokun's soulsteel probably does involve a lot of 'so why aren't there more hungry ghosts'? they alloyed them with pain to make torture metal
velvet raft
I suspect Soul Matter and Ghosts and Whatnot do not necessarily need to come from people in a weird mysterious primordial context, but their not coming from people doesn't mean they're not tormented shades
marsh garden
Anyway I was gonna propose Starmetal Thousand Blades Falcon Style Smashfist alch...
thousand blades smashfists is just such a fantastic visual aesthetic
bleak hazel
Sorry I'm knifing this asshole in a dark alley
Manip 5, App 6
nova yew
There certainly are tormented shades
marsh garden
like it's just peak?
fierce star
plus autochthon's own torment added in
buoyant summit
I'm going to make my Lunar in the Voy server do King combos on him
velvet raft
thousand blades smashfists is just such a fantastic visual aesthetic
It's having 10 separate rocket punches
buoyant summit
prisma sun
Sorry King Hu has the monopoly on King combos
bleak hazel
given he's going to be Mask of Winters' sole PC I would appreciate it if everyone didn't rush to beat up my evil man because he's going to have enough to do anyway
buoyant summit
Fucking
marsh garden
there are too many people in that server, i'm scared
buoyant summit
Sorry King Hu has the monopoly on King combos
Tell that to BeaMu lmao King is literally her fighting style
prisma sun
there are too many people in that server, i'm scared
start killing characters until it's of suitable size
marsh garden
i will continue to shrimply quietly stare at other people's conversations
velvet raft
Make an idiot and come hang out with Robin
velvet raft
I should figure out what Robin's up to
bleak hazel
at some point Rival has to crash your nice rivalry because I want to duel Graves
wise ocean
catch me trimming the surplus blorbo population in real time
bleak hazel
but Crimson has like actual wheeling and dealing to do
prisma sun
I have to ST so much that I cannot do my actual scenes
marsh garden
Make an idiot and come hang out with Robin
robin's a sid right
prisma sun
it's a little sucks tbh
marsh garden
seekrits?
buoyant summit
I have plans for Felmaian but I am also prepared for Felmaian to be the sacrifice to convey how dangerous the Abyssals are
velvet raft
robin's a sid right
Ye, but kinda an Every Kind Of Traitor sid
bleak hazel
the main issue is that everyone is going to beat up on Mask already and it might make it a bit hard to get any traction as Deals Abyssal
buoyant summit
I am down for her Getting Jumped
marsh garden
ah, i missed that
tulip folio
The Half-Souled
Most only die once for their country. The Half-Souled soldiers of Estasia die twice: once in truth, and once in spirit when they undergo a soulforging process to transmute their lower souls into implanted soulsteel amulets.
It's weird that this is A) Horrible fascist shit B) Still somehow less evil than any creation-side soulsteel as it's not impacting their immortal soul, only their 'doesn't reincarnate' side.
wise ocean
it's a little sucks tbh
real.
marsh garden
what's her allegiance?
velvet raft
Heaven in public, but they have a defining intimacy of "I Oppose The Order Of Creation!"
marsh garden
killing their reincarnation side is pretty fucked too tho
wise ocean
the main issue is that everyone is going to beat up on Mask already and it might...
the secret is that everyone's going to want weapons and various other useful things soon enough
marsh garden
buoyant summit
Yeah Robin is a traitor we're gonna have to kill
velvet raft
And a 3-dot mentor who is a specter that lives as a weird rich eccentric ghost in Heaven
buoyant summit
'I think we're gonna have to kill that guy, Steven' etc etc
I forget @wise ocean @limpid badge do Graves and Bloody Hand serve the same Deathlord?
bleak hazel
E3 Crimson could probably hold down most of Mask's end by himself because Shadow Circle with enough resources behind it is great, but E2 Crimson is only aesthetically a dark lord
wise ocean
yep
bleak hazel
and politically, I suppose
buoyant summit
Oh then you fucking hafta jump Fel
velvet raft
Robin is actually extremely benign towards just about everyone, and it is my suspicion that the Green Lady knows about and tolerates them
prisma sun
E3 Crimson could probably hold down most of Mask's end by himself because Shadow...
Misc if you promise to ST scenes I will let you run E3 crimson
marsh garden
LOL
bleak hazel
conveniently I can delay making Four Seasons Rival because one of his character traits is "heavily micromanged by dead dad"
hmm, tempting offer
as in, adjudicate stunts and rules?
prisma sun
no, write narration
bleak hazel
I admit I am not online enough to follow all the plots
so that may be difficult
E3 Crimson does make a great NPC shopkeeper, granted
guy who runs the auction house/info brokerage and also has doom golems
velvet raft
the main issue is that everyone is going to beat up on Mask already and it might...
This might actually be a spot for Robin btw, due to their "I am on everyone's side and that means I am so many kinds of traitor you would not believe it" policy
... actually
bleak hazel
Crimson is surprisingly relaxed about traitors because he's an Eclipseoid
so terms of bargains will be kept
buoyant summit
Misc if you promise to ST scenes I will let you run E3 crimson
I know I didn't audition but I can also do this on occasion if you need
velvet raft
I was thinking Robin was presently alerting a variety of assets that shit's about to hit the fan in Nexus and that they might want to be Somewhere Else
buoyant summit
I don't need or want any player-side privileges even I just think it'd be fun
And also like
Friend Deserves To Have Fun
velvet raft
If Crimson were in Nexus doing information brokerage that could be a lead-in
dense verge
E3 Crimson could probably hold down most of Mask's end by himself because Shadow...
please, a crumb of deathknight for mask
bleak hazel
most of my Exalted GMing has required a lot of checking lore books, I admit
buoyant summit
"No Deathknights?"
bleak hazel
it is intensive in that regard, although at this point I have most of it downloaded into my brain
Mask has three NPC guys at least, although one of them is in serious need of a new statblock
Red Iron Rebuke as NPC combat god might be of use
marsh garden
new statblock as in he was a badly designed CRB character or as in someone whipped him up for the server but he needs a refresh?
buoyant summit
please, a crumb of deathknight for mask
I can make you a Fuct Up Dusk for a combat threat, but prooooooobably wouldn't play them that often unless like
Called To Fight
dense verge
Red Iron Rebuke has a city to run, Seven Seasons Widow has a city's army to run, and both dont have statblocks
bleak hazel
he's in Adversaries and like most of the exalts in Adversaries he has about two charms and poor pools
marsh garden
ah
dense verge
clad is the fucked up combat dusk
clad does not understand talking in ways that arent sephiroth monologues
buoyant summit
Oh you need
dense verge
or, exdeath monologues actually
buoyant summit
A Not Idiot
wise ocean
mask is out here coughing and begging in the street for a crumb of guy with Cha 5
dense verge
Waking Smith knows what hes doing but hes quiet quitting
buoyant summit
I'm very good at playing a Moonshadow...~
dense verge
i will say i think this state of affairs is hilarious so do as you will
prisma sun
Waking Smith is an engineer grad who could only find a job at Raytheon
bleak hazel
Mask theoretically has a whole bunch of fighters somewhere because he did absolutely body the garrison of Thorns
but we haven't had much mention of them
marsh garden
hm
velvet raft
The more I think about it the more I think Robin is someone who might have ties to the Mask's deathknights
dense verge
waking smiths idea of recruiting intelligence assets is walking up to a guy, handing them 20 dollars, and asking "hey you wanna work for the cia? ok bye."
marsh garden
Mask theoretically has a whole bunch of fighters *somewhere* because he did abso...
i thought it was mostly personal power and his war giant?
wise ocean
Mask theoretically has a whole bunch of fighters *somewhere* because he did abso...
apparently a bunch of them are Nephracks who hate the Abyssals
buoyant summit
Though making a moonshadow who's deep into Whispers and is just
marsh garden
behemoth, that's it
bleak hazel
the dragonbloods of Thorns were explicitly slain by deathknights after sallying out to engage the regular undead and his behemoth
marsh garden
huh
bleak hazel
this has at least remained consistent for three editions because there's a lot of art of Mask aura farming with juggernaut in the background
velvet raft
waking smiths idea of recruiting intelligence assets is walking up to a guy, han...
look i know this is an ancient, thoroughly dated reference, but is that how slenderman got that $20
marsh garden
waking smiths idea of recruiting intelligence assets is walking up to a guy, han...
i mean that fucking works sometimes lmao
prisma sun
Waking Smith paid Slenderman 20 dollars yeah
bleak hazel
Mask and The Boys
marsh garden
other than the "for the CIA" bit
buoyant summit
i will say i think this state of affairs is hilarious so do as you will
Do you want a Deathknight who's a combination of Guan Yu and Lodi? >XD
bleak hazel
given we know the identity of three Mask deathknights, this art still leaves one unaccounted for
Thorns is also, like, a proper functioning city that just happens to be full of zombies, so there's a sizable force attached to that
dense verge
im good with what you want, but dont feel obligated to make an abyssal for my sake
i also think mask has unnamed deathknights that are otherwise occupied and unable to be sent nexus' way
marsh garden
i thought waking was one of the walker's ngl
i seem to have misinterpreted something while lurking
chilly sluice
FAFL
chilly sluice
IIRC
marsh garden
bleak hazel
common bonesider W
marsh garden
goatsiders...
buoyant summit
im good with what you want, but dont feel obligated to make an abyssal for my sa...
I don't really feel obligated as such
You are just Eventually The Main Threat
And have
One Fucking Deathknight
marsh garden
lmao
dense verge
i also admit to wanting a non-dusk so the server doesnt run out of dusk castes to summon up in general
bleak hazel
Red Iron Rebuke is probably one of the highest-powered Abyssals, at least
he's been headbutting deebs to death while totally blind for at least four years
buoyant summit
i also admit to wanting a non-dusk so the server doesnt run out of dusk castes t...
Oh, definitely a Moonshadow or whatever the not!Zenith is
bleak hazel
very strange guy that one
bleak hazel
Crimson is not a warlord but he is really good at managing a war as long as he has officers to support
velvet raft
I am imagining a guy doing the Naruto Run but with his head down so that he crashed skull-first into things
bleak hazel
due to his ability to more or less summon logistics out of nowhere
and also doom golems
but mostly logistics
dense verge
I think no matter what Abyssal you make you can get Mask to send them to Nexus by going "Well you either have me or Prince Resplendent to send to make sure they're doing their job right"
prisma sun
Red Iron Rebuke is probably E-4 yeah
buoyant summit
The fuck? really?
wise ocean
Dusk vs. Dawn, Night vs. Daybreak, etc
bleak hazel
Dawn - Dusk
Zenith - Midnight
Twilight - Daybreak
Night - Day
Eclipse - Moonshadow
buoyant summit
Huh
marsh garden
i will probably continue to hide due to the overwhelming terror of earnestly engaging in any way with more than three other sickos at a time, but the character i have mostly statted out (learning is hard 
) is a lunar who found his abyssal bondmate, had a whirlwind romance, and is now waiting for him to reincarnate again after he got ganked in a duel
so that could be Mask-related
buoyant summit
No Aby has War as a Caste ability then?
prisma sun
Every Ability is a caste ability for someone
marsh garden
*No* Aby has War as a Caste ability then?
buoyant summit
And I can't make a Dusk hhhhhnnnnnnggghhhhh
wise ocean
rhi, you have a bunch of characters to begin with, don't worry about it
prisma sun
I am actually probably going to start putting a tamper on people making more active characters
It's really fucking hard to juggle 20 people each playing 4 characters
dense verge
yeah i like having like, 3 and a half on the board at once
buoyant summit
Fair nuff
I will wait for one of my slots to open, likely by Fel
Fucking Dying
Or I can just make this guy and let Bees use em as an NPC
dense verge
kesh is mostly a support role narratively, eresh is a merit, and abrahhal hasnt had an appearance yet
Everyone Loves The Mask of Winters
unless something funny happens, youre not going to get eresh in a scene without ayesa, at most she'd be off on a errand solo off-screen
wise ocean
It's really fucking hard to juggle 20 people each playing 4 characters
this is a wise choice (and beyond that, take care to see you don't burn out)
bleak hazel
I have exactly two guys I want to get in here and that's more than enough for me
bleak hazel
both of them have good excuses to go sit on the sideline for ages if necessary which is good because I am busy
prisma sun
but require me to continue things