Exalted

[fierce star]

but it is also trying to guess core book intentions lol

[fierce star]

... Hey, vague question about the 'essence +1' houserule for supernallikes. At essence 5 would that let you treat calculations as essence 6 and possibly buy an Elder Charm, or does it just stop being a feature at essence 5 under that houserule, hyou think?

[tulip folio]

I'd say stops being a thing

[lament owl]

I say that you can gesture at something like elder charms existinng and maybe work with the player ot make up a unique one for them if you get to that point

[tulip folio]

...I had a funny idea for something to put together.

Raksha not as a full character type but as a template. You basically put it over whatever you're PRETENDING to be/what fits the most thematically.

[lament owl]

interesting

[tulip folio]

With a few things adjusted for the fey stuff.

The big one - All of them replace thier own limit system with the Fey limit.

And they all hate iron etc

[fierce star]

HTat'd be neat, I think

so a tempalte on top of an exalt type, specifically?

[tulip folio]

Yeah

Gives a couple of traits (weaknesses and strengths equally) and replaces your limit.

I'd need to ponder Fey Limit

[lament owl]

HOLY SHIT I FIGURED OUT THE APPEAL OF A LIMINAL CAMPAIGN BESIDES BEING A KNOCKOFF PROMETHAN
Its The Witcher but your a Frankenstein

Every single Liminal I have seen is always doing some weird, dubious ass supernatural gig economy job where they are hunting a essence 3 supenatural creature or smuggling people out of a shadowland or brutually dying in a fight against an abyssal only to show up later because (Insert Thanos Quote Here)

and like, technically Outcast Deebs do also do that type of thing but Liminals are Basically Immortal which adds an interesting ripple to thingss

I finally figured it out

[south horizon]

Ye

[lament owl]

Liminals are the type of exalt that can actually engage with like, weird super high fantasy monster hunting shenanigans

Because they exist on a low enough scale to actually need to care about the monsters

Both in a “they probably need to engage with this more than a deeb for the money or what have you” and in a “a more powerful exalted like a solar doesn’t really have to care about how the monster works in the same way because they can just invincible sword Princess through and ignore any weird gimmick it has”

[south horizon]

Mhmmm, it's the space deebs are meant to fill as well buuut

deeb mechanica are pain

[lament owl]

I don’t tend to imagine deebs doing like… the borderline grunt work that is the monster hunting Im thinking about

Though of course outcasts do exist,the nobles probably have something better to do

[prisma sun]

Nobles do a ton of monster hunting

Just usually its the younger ones on tour

Because the older ones are busy with some form of governance

[lament owl]

That’s fair

I am cooking though I think, with “oh that’s what an liminal game would actually be like” I mean

I’m so sleepy

Inshould probably head out

[south horizon]

no ye, i feel it

[prisma sun]

I feel like a Limenal campaign is both Kung fu promethean and Kung fu Geist

And I know you can do Kung fu Geist with abyssals but also playing a solar can suck

[south horizon]

I don't think Abyssals have the depression levels for geist

[lament owl]

They do if they aren’t being very chivalrous

[lament owl]

I mean that’s also a fair way to see it, but “The Witcher But Your A Promethan type creature” hits my brain in a good way at the moment

[marsh garden]

alright, i've seen the phrase thrown around a couple times (by the same person? dunno) in the past few days, so

what does "invincible sword princess" refer to?

is it just a character trope

or a charm that became the shorthand for a trope?

[limpid badge]

its a character build

[marsh garden]

or is it just entirely a charm/martial art/whatever

gotcha

[limpid badge]

an old gimmick build of "Dawn Who Fucking Wins"

[marsh garden]

ahh, i see

thanks

[limpid badge]

so she becomes, archetypically, The Invincible Sword Princess

[prisma sun]

It is because solar melee lets you instantly delete people

[buoyant summit]

What martial arts style

other than Bear

Would you associate with a bear?

Or weapon type, honestly

I am making a Swordlunar

She does have nightingale already, so roars are also covered

[tulip folio]

Hmm...tinkering with Infernal/Solar Limit as I find them boring as hell. My plan right now:

1 - Make it so a certain number of your limit gain triggers need to be directly related your Wicked Excess. If your Wicked Excess is a berserker rage, de-escalating a situation would be a cause for gaining limit as you are actively working against that part of yourself.

2 - Turn your Wicked Excess into an Intimacy that can't be modified. The scale of which is based on your current amount of limit. Your wicked excess isn't some Dramatic Change Of Character, it's *part of you* taken to 11 and people can push that lever.

3 - Let the player and GM vent some of the limit by having the character act in non-helpful ways that play to the Excess. A little bit if you add a complication (The Diplomat you're here to talk with think's you're an asshole because you chewed him out in anger), a *lot* if it's something that risks torpedoing the arc (You decked the diplomat and actively made the situation worse before the talks)

Basicly: Solar and Infernal Limit have a bit of a bad case of not really being a flaw. They're a time bomb. They go off at some point and ruin things but until then, nothing. I want to make it more 'No, part of being a larger than life hero is your flaws are also larger than life.'

You are Bellaphoran's unmatched Ego or the Wrath of Hercules. You don't just fuck things up occasionally and catastrophically and then vanish, it's a part of yourself you are always dealing with.

[velvet raft]

Don't forget that it's a prereq for some extremely strong social defenses!

[coral wraith]

Yeah, it's goated

[velvet raft]

There's 6 lore charms that are on my list of "recommended for every sid" and it's one of them

[marsh garden]

what are the other five

[velvet raft]

Systematic Understand of Everything -> Methodology of Secrets -> Of Horrors Best Unknown

And then from Professorial Mien, Well-Schooled Pedant Defense and Dismissive Scholar's Sniff

Check this shit out

This is even stronger than it looks with the other charms on that list of 6

[marsh garden]

ahh, six sid charms

not six charms across the system

[velvet raft]

Yeah

"+1 target numbers in combat" WELL OKAY

[next delta]

Which you are probably in if you are doing gambits lol

(how does attempting a gambit without full on combat even work?)

[tulip folio]

And being unblockable, that's a lot of foes who who are shit out of luck stopping it.

[tulip folio]

You roll join battle for the sake of the gambit

[velvet raft]

I think there are rules for "poke that guy" out-of-combat somewhere

But not for gambits proper

[velvet raft]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AINmwA86BMIxucY33D-dze958-6coBsTOs51_bf7Jj8/edit?gid=655784735#gid=655784735 Put together a progression for this stupid idea

[bleak hazel]

the funny thing about this one is just how wide the category of "un-Exalted targets" is

sorry Mask of Winters, all your chat-up lines are going to be cursed for an entire year

it's not Shun the Smiling Lady but it's the next best thing

[next delta]

It's weird that one isn't just mortals having a bad time for just over a year

[bleak hazel]

ideally you want a longer duration than one scene on most average gods and demons and so on

but it's funny how bifurcated it is

[next delta]

Yeah

[velvet raft]

Kinda makes sense from a lore perspective, too

If you see it as the Sids’ big nasty universal “you’re fucked” fate curse, the uniquely Exalted tendency to release giant plumes of fate disruption makes sense as something that would make it less lasting

But yeah, you can just bonk Ligier with this shit

Also: EGOA letting you flurry simple charms is amazing

Never really thought about it before

But like all of those simple scene-long self-buffs that are normally hard to use?

[bleak hazel]

the Sid's universal You're Fucked button is prophecy, but that thing being a pocket prophecy is very handy

[velvet raft]

Babam

[bleak hazel]

it also stacks with prophecy if you want to be comically mean

[velvet raft]

Yeah, and prophecy is more effective but also more situationally specialized based on which charm you’re using

[bleak hazel]

E4 sid can drop a max power prophecy over the course of a couple of months, tag their enemy with an extra +1TN on everything and now they only succeed on 9s

[fierce star]

.... Hmm. If my combat suite is mind-hand manipulation I don't really give a shit about armor mobility penalties do I

[velvet raft]

Not a ton

[bleak hazel]

Sidereals: they know exactly how much prep time they need, but they never have it

[velvet raft]

Yeah, the nice thing about this charm imo is that you can just toss it out

And mix it with other more specialized options

Auspicious Sidestep Serendipity, for instance

[bleak hazel]

The other one in that vein is Sidereal Shell Games

[velvet raft]

Yeah true

Shell games is mean

[bleak hazel]

which you throw out at max excellency and pray you get the full 6 dice efficiency swing

Downside is it's Shaping

Prophecies are not shaping or psyche and the stuff that breaks them tends to require, essentially, a side quest

since the Fuck Prophecies tech is basically aimed at God King's Shrike rather than sidereal class features

apart from one random solar bureaucracy charm which deletes prophecies instantly for 10 motes because they hadn't decided how they worked yet and core devs were core devs

[velvet raft]

Aaaaaaaaaaa

[fierce star]

sick bones

many such cases

so here's a random question: if you refuse the bleak exaltation do you always die, garunteed? the implication, of course, is yes, but is that a function of the offer of the bleak exaltation/the presence of a deathlord's attentions upon a mere mortal, or is it just that it only gets offered to people who are on death's door?

[nova yew]

I think it’s only really offered at death

And it brings you back to life sorta

[bleak hazel]

It's right before you die

no resurrection in exalted

[fierce star]

yeah, explicilty you're still alive, just, when it gets offered

[bleak hazel]

Abyssals are only logistically undead

[nova yew]

Oh

I assumed the bleak exaltation was one of the few exceptions to the resurrection rules

Especially since you still have some disadvantages as if you were dead just not all of them

[bleak hazel]

There are no such exceptions

[nova yew]

Like the trappings of death thing

I dunno!!!

Exaltations are weird okay????

I’m new to the setting don’t be mean to me

[bleak hazel]

and if anything says there is it's stupid and should be ignored (looking at you Essence liminal charms)

[fierce star]

if Abyssals weren't still Actually LIving Humans it would be an exception, but they're stll alive and never actually like, di--are we being mean...?

sorry

I wasn't trying to be such?

[nova yew]

No no you’re good

[fierce star]

ok, sorry

[nova yew]

You’re completely fine

[fierce star]

it's still early I havent' had caffiene yet

[nova yew]

Though I will say

It…wouldn’t seem that weird for the “last breath” to somehow bring you back to life as if you were some sort of undead creature since it uh

It really looks like that?
And also it’s a sinister spark of divine providence

[fierce star]

yeah but like, again, textually you aren't actually dead when it gets offered. IT heals you and brings you 'back to life' from the brink of death. it's like... evil CPR

[nova yew]

Okay yeah the book says “not yet died”

But also

[fierce star]

evil CPR that gives you super powers

[nova yew]

You count as dead for a lot of things

[fierce star]

you count as dead when it's beneficial to be dead

[nova yew]

Like

Yeah

[bleak hazel]

yeah, but you also count as alive whenever it would be good

[nova yew]

But also the trappings of death thing

The goth dress code

My point is

It really really looks like a resurrection

[bleak hazel]

and it's metaphyiscally important that they have both halves of their soul together

for certain doodads

[nova yew]

Especially since it’s called the last breath

[bleak hazel]

ghosts can't exalt, because a ghost is only half a soul

[fierce star]

It's called the Last Breath because the deathlords are chuuni edgelords (positive)

[bleak hazel]

it is the closest thing you can have to a resurrection

[nova yew]

That’s true

[bleak hazel]

also it's a mirror to the fact that regular exaltation is "the second breath"

[nova yew]

Well yes

I know that part

[bleak hazel]

but yeah, it doesn't bring you back, it just stops you going over

[nova yew]

It’s just also called the last breath which is like-

Like I wouldn’t begrudge an abyssal exalt from saying “I was dead once! But I returned to life”

Cus like

[bleak hazel]

which is also why you can't be an exalt who then dies and exalts as an abyssal

because you don't die

[fierce star]

but uh, to get to my question, I'm pondering an NPC for a game who damn near died, was offered the bleak exaltation, refused it, and was left for dead, and then by heroic willpower refused to die regardless and is now, uh, unfortunately aware of things they were not aware of before. Like, I can't see anything textual that forces refusing the last breath to kill you, just in most cases it would becuase you're not really in a position to live

[nova yew]

You sure did get most of the way there

[fierce star]

but heroic mortals gonna heroic sometimes

[bleak hazel]

well yeah, but it's like 40k dreadnoughts, right

they talk about themselves as dead a lot but they aren't, technically

[nova yew]

It’s magical rather than technological

So I would disagree

Like sure yeah it’s not “your higher and lower soul separating”

And you didn’t really “die”

But also

[bleak hazel]

it is perfectly reasonable for them to talk about it as "when I died" but it is also important for the structure of the setting that they didn't actually die and something else happened instead

I don't see any tension here

[nova yew]

Okay

Sure whatever I don’t actually care

[nova yew]

Yeah that sounds like a thing

Cus yeah it doesn’t really forcibly kill you

[bleak hazel]

yeah seems reasonable

[nova yew]

Just…the main circumstances of it are “when you would otherwise die”

And while that sounds like a 99% chance of you dying this sounds like a case of that 1%

[bleak hazel]

the kind of event that gets you what would be called Enlightened Mortal status if those still existed as a category

[fierce star]

👍

"Hey kid wanna take revenge on the rivals who slaughtered your expeidtion,s tole your maps and left you for dead?" "Yes but under my own power bitch, fuck off with that cheating exaltation bullshit" "K enjoy your death" proceeds not to die

[bleak hazel]

much like how it's possible for a Sid-to-be to get ganked by a variety of supernatural bullshit before they exalt, it seems reasonable for either distant chance or some kind of magic intervention to let someone who was offered Abyssaldom get back up again anyway

[nova yew]

Perhaps you died near the Wyld and got hit with reverse lightning (it comes out of the ground and shoots at the sky and repairs things in its wake)

[bleak hazel]

you know there should be more fae medics

I can imagine a fae who just becomes the exalted version of the hollywood film bedouin rescue service

materializes out of nowhere to rescue stranded travellers and collect Mysterious Stranger points

[fierce star]

lol

[prisma sun]

I think people should get to do shit via willpower

[south horizon]

hmmm?

[velvet raft]

By default I would say no which means it seems like a potential character hook to be tbh

[fierce star]

entirely fair

[lament owl]

Member of the guild who exalts and then retires from guild life because he respects the no exalts rule

Like no one calls him on it he’s just like “damn, guess I gotta retire now”

[prisma sun]

Becomes a Solar: "Ah man now I'm poor"

[fierce star]

I respect it tbh

[next delta]

While retiring with Resources 4

[nova yew]

Selling slaves only for the love of the game

As any guild raised hard worker should

[lament owl]

Liminal villan in a terrasterial game that has an artifact which can hold their brain remotely, so until you find their damn brain jar your stuck drowning the guy and hoping his employers don’t pull him out of the river and wake him up

[prisma sun]

Agg doesn't really do as much in Exalted right?

[lament owl]

it prevents healing

No-Moon with a demon pact having the third circle demon they have a pact with drop their infernalized Solar Mate at their feet and be like “yo I got him for you”

[bleak hazel]

it prevents all magical healing that doesn't explicitly say it heals agg, but not normal regen

which is rough for Lunars and less rough for Infernals because Infernal combat regen heals agg, just slower

[wise ocean]

agg damage is nice for putting down soakbeast regen lunar

[prisma sun]

Also

High-Essence Infernals are fucking dumb and stupid and I love and hate them

[nova yew]

Agg also represents damage that can kill gods or demons permanently

at least iirc

[prisma sun]

Also love how infernals have like

3 cannibalism trees

[fierce star]

Awareness, survival, brawl?

[prisma sun]

Oh, 4

Awareness, Survival, Resistance, Brawl

[fierce star]

Iirc brawl has some anyway

[prisma sun]

Yeah

you can grow mouths in your skin and eat people

[fierce star]

Yeah

[bleak hazel]

alas that is specifically tagged on spirit-killing charms

regular agg just hurts a lot

[prisma sun]

I think Creature can eat and permanatly kill spirits

[limpid badge]

5, medicine

Give yourself a craving for human flesh to become a Good Doctor

Eat the Disease Out Of Them

[fierce star]

Does murder is meat count as cannibalism actually

[wise ocean]

Yes

Infernals are extremely cannibalism-forward

[limpid badge]

Yaaaaay

[fierce star]

What do we think about the sobriquet merit on non-deebs

[prisma sun]

I mean anyone can have a title

[wise ocean]

if it lets you add to threaten I can see it even if you're just a freak loner type guy

same for navigating deathknight or hell politics

[prisma sun]

I wouldn't say only Sids can get Divine Heritage

[fierce star]

Well, divine heritage is a sidebar, sobriquet is in the merits section. I don't disagree but there is a reading where it could be deebs only

[merry arch]

the description per deebs does explicitly call out a solar and a lunar so

Prerequisite: Influence 1+
Many Exalted and other great figures are known across Creation by their titles and epithets, as much if not more than by name. Tepet Ejava is the Roseblack; Yurgen Kaneko is the Bull of the North; Sha’a Oka is the Black Lion. This Merit represents a character whose title carries great weight in her dealings with others. Upon taking this Merit, her player should specify both her character’s sobriquet and the reputation that it carries. Once per story, when she’s awarded a stunt on social influence that benefits from this reputation, shemay increase the stunt’s rating by one.```

i say its fine

[fierce star]

Oh, I forgot that

Away from books

[wise ocean]

ah, and you can indeed threaten and instill with it

very good

[fierce star]

Apologies for asking a question the text answers lol

[merry arch]

no prob, i think people can get titles for fun even if they dont have the merit

[wise ocean]

I'll probably pick the merit up once Io starts doing things in Creation proper

[merry arch]

people should just look at you like (adam smasher voice) who the fuck are you

[limpid badge]

The Merit just represents being a Ranked Xia bc ur part of a Big Faction

this is how I vibe it

[bleak hazel]

yeah, one of the many versions of Rival has this, representing him claiming his prior incarnation's title

although as a Sid he can only use it among the kind of celestial exalt company who can actually retain information about notable Sids

[fierce star]

I'm thinking of taking it for my azimuth because 'Broken Doll Made By Heaven's Greed' popped into my head and it goes hard tbh

[limpid badge]

waiting for Arby to actually establish her kingdom and then ohoho, ohoho, people will know of the Starvling Queen

[lament owl]

Godddd being a combat exalt is fun

Huskflayer being able to AP through natural soak feels really strong

[marsh garden]

huskflayer?

that's an artifact, right?

[lament owl]

(Sorry was grabbing dinner) yeah 5 dot artifact scythe

great against battegroups and kaiju

still good against everything else

[tulip folio]

See, now I'm debating if it's funnier for my Infernal to not have it and just keep introducing herself with titles despite that or to have it and be very bad at keeping her titles consistent.

[lament owl]

Huskflayer lets you spend 3 motes to causse the target lose 5-8 soak based on your current overwhelm(huskflayer is weird so that is gonna vary)

If you stack this with a piercing attack(which you are encouraged to do) you can remove up to 4 points of armored soak

if you hit their soak to 0 doing this, you get a bit of special huskflayer currency and regain the initative on your percing attack

andd that is just

A lot of AP?

[tulip folio]

Hmm...what charms are there that strip a guy of some soak for the rest of the scene?

[fierce star]

Flip a coin tbh, both are hilarious

[velvet raft]

... oh it's Prince Ashitaka

It's 100% the cursed arm thing

[lament owl]

had an idea recently which is "Sidereal with ally 5 because there isn't a rule against dating your coworkers in heaven and you somehow rizzed up some essence 6+ God"

[tulip folio]

Someone please invent the Department of HR for Yu-Shan

[velvet raft]

Bureau of Humanity

They're not doing so great

Have we ever gotten like ... stats, for behemoths?

[tulip folio]

We got one for a relatively young fey behemoth?

[lament owl]

there are stats for a underworld behemoth in the abyssal book

[velvet raft]

But otherwise no?

Just thinking about Benthic Horror Beckoning

[prisma sun]

100 devils has one

Its a walking volcano

[lament owl]

YEAH I was trying to remember if it was actually a behemoth or some weird other thing

Mahicara

[marsh garden]

waow

[velvet raft]

Oh, huh, we also have the Living Manse in 100 Devils

Forgot about that one

[lament owl]

Headcanoning that this is like, a core trait for behemoths

Elnuet-that-Was(tthe onee in the abyssal book) doesn't actually appear to be a behemoth

just an unrelated other kaiju

(its the ghost of a really powerful first age artifact)

or well

"Behemoth" is also just the term for weird kaiju monsters in general

and you can bind it with the Bind Underworld Behemoth spell

[lament owl]

if I were to make a homebrew behemoth I feel like God-Wrought Monster is a great way to hit the behemoth vibe

just change the flavor of the immortality

[velvet raft]

It is still wild to me that given sufficient willpower you can just create a shitload of additional Initiative tracks with Sail

[lament owl]

moree reasons to cultmax

[velvet raft]

Indeeb

[south horizon]

Sail stonks

most self-sufficient Tree

and orob one of the best sail trees period

[fierce star]

infernal sail v. good

combine with sorcery and take impervious sphere of water as control

[fierce star]

Hmm. Y'all thin kthere's a balance reason for not having 'always on at a negative cost' keys for the infernal touch and sight sense upgrade charms, like the taste/smell and hearing ones have?

[tulip folio]

I don't think so. I just think they couldn't think of a cool addon there.

As they already put the obvious one for Sight down in...Stealth...iirc?

Sorry, Socialize!

[fierce star]

huh

wonder if the 'touch' one is elsewhere. If it wasI'd expect lore (for Mind hand) but it isn't there.

[marsh garden]

how much do Keys cost again? are they full charm price?

i swear i saw someone saying they were discounted

but that doesn't seem right

[lament owl]

Formalized way to say “repurchase”

[fierce star]

they're full charm cost yeah

[chilly sluice]

only Alch submodules have reduced cost I think

[tulip folio]

Some alch submodules actually cost more than the charm they're for.

As alch charms are already discount price

And 6xp submodules end up being more expensive than a new charm

[lament owl]

Hey how is this as an idea for a “metropolis” style charm keyword

Charms that get stronger if you can integrate environmental water into the stunt for it

So you get that sort of water bending “constantly looking around the environment for resources and weaker when deprived of them” but all your charms still work without that water

Its just weaker

[tulip folio]

But don't need an extra charmslot

[fierce star]

sounds like a neat keyword for an exigent, I think?

[marsh garden]

wait, how much do alch charms cost?

[fierce star]

4 XP each for favored, 6 for non favored

[marsh garden]

huh

guess that makes sense, since they've got a limit

[lament owl]

this is for the Niborian Rules I wanna work on at some point

[chilly sluice]

yeah you have limited slots, so the charms are cheaper

[fierce star]

yeah, alch charms cost the same as any other splat if you buy htem with a slot

[marsh garden]

buy them with a slot?

[fierce star]

as in a slot to install them into

[marsh garden]

i didn't realize you could buy slots

[fierce star]

yeah

up to (17+essence*3) total slots, and you start with 15

so an alchemical is never going to have more than 32 charms active at any one time

[marsh garden]

oh, that's

way more than i expected

is that uh

a limit that infernals (with their keys) would run up against very quickly?

[chilly sluice]

you can, but there's also a hard cap

[marsh garden]

i guess i was really misinterpreting how efficient submodules were and had to be

[fierce star]

Infernals do not have slots

only alchelmicals do

[marsh garden]

i know

[fierce star]

I misunderstood your question then

but 'yes', generally speaking

[marsh garden]

32 sounds like a massive amount that i was shocked to hear would be run into, so i made a comparison to infernals with their keys as the closest equivalent to modules not bloating rebuys and half-step charms

[fierce star]

most exalts are gonna have more than 32 charms, including repurchases; evne alchemicals are, but they're going to like. Have loadouts. The alchemical I'm playing is eventually going to have a 'expecting to fight' loadout, a 'time to socialize' loadout, and a 'downtime craftin gand medicine' loadout.

Remember, you start with 15 charms, right? 32's only slight more than twice that.

[marsh garden]

because i thought submods were (and had to be) way more efficient than 32 charms

[chilly sluice]

also a few of your slots will be taken up by Transpuissant [Attribute]

[marsh garden]

oh right, those are tax charms

[fierce star]

Submodule efficiency is a tricky thing

give me a moment to count

but like, alchemicals shove basically all the important parts of the solar medicine charmset into 4 charms with 18 submodules spread across them

[chilly sluice]

there's a few others too, like the Martial Arts charm

though some of the universal charms don't take up a slot

[fierce star]

but yeah there's a reason why alchemicals are so often willing to sacrifice three of their slots, permanently, for martial arts and sorcery.

becuase MA charms and spells (and evocations!) don't atke up slots

[tulip folio]

And Alchs can buy evocations with craft exp!

[chilly sluice]

also I always forget
are attribute charms compatible with MA or still no?

[tulip folio]

They are unless they actively say otherwise!

Some exigents rule it out explicitly

[fierce star]

usually terrestrial-level exigents

[marsh garden]

craft xp?

is that separate from splat xp?

[fierce star]

it's... yes

okay so the entire craft subsystem runs on a boutique set of XPs--silver, gold, and white XP, from least to most like... strongest?

[marsh garden]

oh nyo

i remember this

kind of

i have looked at the craft system, but i didn't really realize that was xp

and not like

[fierce star]

you get silver XP from doing minor craft projects, which you then use to make major projects that get you gold xp, that you then use on superior projects to get white xp, which you use on legendary projects

[marsh garden]

just a currency

[fierce star]

it's effectively jus ta currency but they call it xp

[marsh garden]

gotcha

i keep seeing it in the abyssal and sid books as "[color] points", so i forget that that means experience points

at least as of core

[fierce star]

I wouldn't necessarily say the craft system has sick bones, because like

unlike a lot fo core it does work, but it is very like

it relies on you being The Guy Who USes Craft To Solve Everything

i'm going to solve every problem with craft (bridges)

[nova yew]

NO

[tulip folio]

The craft system has radioactive bones 😛

[coral wraith]

wait what

[tulip folio]

Yep! It's one of their big craft tricks!

[coral wraith]

crazy gas

[next delta]

It's one of the most direct craft XP to regular power abilities I think?

(spending craft xp on craft abilities is pretty whatever to me because it already seems excessive to me that it's subdivided that hard, ha)

[tulip folio]

That one sorta falls under 'by the time you are picking this up, you likely have craft artifacts'

And most craft ability lists end with 'craft(artifact)' as that's the One That Really Matters

[fierce star]

alchemicals are fun

[tulip folio]

You think it would be reasonable for an Alchemist to have Survival as her 'doing alchemy' skill instead of Craft? Craft charms are boring for a character that doesn't want to go into artifact making.

...maybe medicine instead.

[next delta]

Medicine would make sense if it's just a reflavouring of what you are doing?

[tulip folio]

Infernal medicine does have a lot of 'hahahahahah' mad alchemist stuff.

[bleak hazel]

for easy reference, a stock E5 exalt has 50-55 charms plus whatever they spent splat XP on

assuming all your main XP went into charms and you didn't spend much at non-favoured prices

I find that's a useful number for quickly ballparking builds, too

[tulip folio]

Hegra-Ass Medicine

[bleak hazel]

how fighty is this man? well, what percentage of 50 charms is his combat suite?

[bleak hazel]

Citrine Pox does this too with like two, maybe three charms and a few repurchases

Solar Medicine really doesn't have particularly extensive teeth

[tulip folio]

Yeah, I'm looking over Infernal Medicine right now and the actual 'cure people' medicine charms is like...4ish? Then there's a lot of Do Weird Medicine Shit.

Giving people mutations, turning them into plant-people.

[bleak hazel]

the more I have nerded out about craft the more I think this should just be the stock use of white XP

for everyone

Infernals have it too, so it's not like it's special white point sink privileges

the shitty ones deebs and lunars have mostly seem to be the curse of linear time

I might append that to Misc's Solar Craft Rebuild

which has a little flower of different ways to spend white points at the top of the tree

[tulip folio]

Also: Hey, what's the silliest thing that involves a medicine roll?

[bleak hazel]

the Citrine Pox instaheal charm is a medicine roll and also the only thing that can instantly replace lost limbs, assuming Infernals don't have a different way to do that

so with that many sux you can punch someone and all four of their limbs just pop back on

lego game building noise

[tulip folio]

They do but it takes a fair bit of investment.

It's 1 charm + 4 keys to reach

[bleak hazel]

that doesn't fix crippling injuries, does it?

that's just combat heals

[tulip folio]

Oh right. Sorry. A different charm heals crippling.

Which doesn't have the instant use option

[bleak hazel]

they can definitely do it

but I dont think they can do it in combat time

it's standard exalt medicine tech, deebs have the same version abyssals do for all intents and purposes

[tulip folio]

Yeah. I found it.

You hit a guy with a poison and when the poison ends, he's fixed

It's also their 'give mutations' charm

[bleak hazel]

oh that's very cute

[tulip folio]

As you are literally using Vitriol for the alchemical use of vitriol

[bleak hazel]

takes the same time as usual, because the normal -3 crippling injury heal takes 3 months in 3 sections of extended roll

or roughly the same time

but also you will horribly gigamelt a mortal who you try to use that on without other work

7 intervals, so you take a casual 28 dice of agg damage and then your arm's back

[tulip folio]

It does have 'it can't be fatal' in the base charm but that's still a mortal with his arms back and all his boxes full of aggravated 😛

Which he's not healing without help

[bleak hazel]

only if they like you

[tulip folio]

Everyone likes me

😛

But yeah, you're not wrong

[bleak hazel]

infernal medicine very fun

abyssal medicine not really my thing

[tulip folio]

I also really like their 'come on, you trust your doctor, right?' charm

[bleak hazel]

I think Abyssal Bureau is still beating out Infernals for me just because it has a lot of FUCK YOU I'M RICH tech that I personally enjoy, but almost every other tree is a significant dub for the infernals

[tulip folio]

One of the capstone charms for Infernal Medicine is 'Fuck it, Everyone Gets Cancer'

[bleak hazel]

huh

extremely relaxed citrine pox capstone

invisible but also doesn't shred everything within the radius

and much cheaper

[tulip folio]

Oh, I think an Infernal could have some rather fun with citrine poxes as they have a 'inflame disease' charm.

[marsh garden]

i really hope the abyssal supplement actually has some whispers charms

i was really really hyped seeing whispers but like

there are so few

[wise ocean]

infernal bureaucracy seems surprisingly low-key to me compared to how intense and in-your-face a lot of the other infernal stuff is

that said the I AM THE LAW charms stand out and are quite good

[tulip folio]

I also love just how silly some of the intimacy options are.

[fierce star]

I wonder what a good penalty for a 'this charm is always on' key for the infernal touch booster would be

[tulip folio]

What's the touch booster do/what's it's fluff again?

[fierce star]

'your soul gets bigger and can touch things'

[bleak hazel]

vast oceanic soul charm

fun

[fierce star]

it is a really fun one but a 6m investment to keep it on all the time is a little much

also I love making my blorbos suffer through taste hyperfixaitons and noise sensitivity so I'd like to add one more to the list

[next delta]

I was surprised it didn't have an always on for "free" option

[fierce star]

same, so I'm homebrewing one, lmao, just kindo f workshopping ideas for what the drawback should be

(the vision one doesn't have it either but that's because the vision drawback is, as pointed out earlier, in socialize)

[marsh garden]

i'm sad that there's no upgrade like that for some of the abyssal awareness stuff

i want always-on countless grasping phantoms

i wanna touch the spaghet

credit to that one, it doesn't look like it's one of the literal hundreds of solar copy-pastes

[tulip folio]

I could see them having some penalties while in environmental hazards

As she can feel every part of the oww

[tulip folio]

I do love that ability to feel out if someone's a subordinate. You can do a touch based version of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koCAtBJA5XU

[fierce star]

I was thinking something like either that or maybe increased wound penalties because there's so much more of you to feel the pain?

... oh my go dit is 'does hel ook like a bitch' but touch

[tulip folio]

squeezing a sidereal's shoulder, wondering why this supposed prince feels like a bitch

[tulip folio]

I could see something like 'Wound penalties are (1-2) higher for one round after they are inflicted'

[tulip folio]

The Infernal gains this Charm’s benefits permanently, However, being exposed to an environmental hazard (Including having it in the area you can 'touch') inflicts a -1 penalty to all actions from pain for a turn, or for as long as you are exposed to it. Toxins and Diseases also inflict this penalty for as long as you are affected by them.

Maybe something like this?

[fierce star]

yeah, that sounds good to me I think

[tulip folio]

Infernals can ignore pain penalties with a charm but that's also eating motes.

[fierce star]

yeah

like how you can get around the 'have to eat every day or starve to death' negative by having Murder is Meat

[tulip folio]

Also: Isidoros continues to be Most Charming Yozi with his third circle soul being an absent minded anarchist.

Centuries ago, Isidoros’ soul Demirkol, the Broken Chain, decreed that in the Emerald Pyramid District, citizens and serfs were equal — and then continued onward, never giving the district another thought. It grew rich in art and philosophy, albeit racked by strife among anarcho-political factions and artistic collectives. But when a visiting citizen died in a riot, that  citizen’s progenitor annihilated the Emerald Pyramids with tongues of acid flame.

Demirkol has decreed this once again amid the brass-bridged chasms of the Whispering Cleft District, a cultural center dating back to the Carceral War. Serf luminaries such as Ylbarde the Smoke, a mercurial gilmyne elder of the Color-Dancers’ Rostrum, and the monosyllabic Orrotya, said to be the last of the gyorgyike song-seers, face the Cleft’s future with hope and unease. They labor to integrate an influx of demons, often of unfamiliar kindreds — and in many cases misfits even by Hell’s standards — while entreating citizen benefactors such as Lanthild, Shaper of the Mind’s Clay, to continue to patronize the district.

[nova yew]

It’s quite a charming one

Though also I’ve found myself amused by elloge

Who is baby

And cythera for being….so strange

[tulip folio]

Verdant Emptiness Endowment Keys

Spiteful Witch Wishcraft(Essence 2): When a character falls into the Infernal's debt, she may automatically inflict the curse, without requesting a task. The botches of the curse can also affect characters connected to the target, as long as they fit the theme of the wish; A merchant who wished for great wealth may find the botch affecting his guards when they attempt to spot the thief drawn by tales of his riches.

Give and Take Mastery(Spiteful Witch Wishcraft): When the Infernal grants a wish, she may deliberately introduce unforeseen consequences. Choose a circumstance comparable to a specialty for the consequences of the wish: A character who wishes for scholarly learning might find that he has a hard time 'Making Friends', while one who wished to be the life of the party may find his liver so damaged by partying that he finds 'Resisting Poison' difficult. When that circumstance applies, he suffers a penalty of (Essence) to applicable dice pools. 

This penalty lasts for as long as the benefits from Verdant Emptiness Endowment does, which can be quite dangerous for those who accepted the effect permanently, though it can be removed by magic such as Order-Affirming Blow and other effects that can cure Shaping Effects.

Soul-Bargaining Sorceress(Essence 3): The task that can be requested of a character that falls into debt is increased to Serious. Increase the number of botches inflicted by the curse by 2.

Inner Devils Unchained Keys:

Useful Mortal Amalgam(Essence 4): The Infernal may choose to more carefully blend the mortal's former self with that of what they are becoming. The resulting demon has clear aspects of the human they once were; A Blood Ape may have a man's bushy beard or a Neomah may be recognisable by family as their missing kin despite the change. Doing so allows the demon to use the traits of their mortal self, if they are higher than that of the demon. A storyteller may modify or reject these traits if the new form would substantially alter them or prevent their usage, such as an Assassin's skill with a knife being more damaging in the hands of a Blood Ape, while there are very few physical skills that a Zdarti could make use of.

Hell Spider Weaves Silk: The Infernal may grant the transformed demon the ability to cloak itself in its old skin as an action, as long as its new form is vaguely close in size to its old form (A Blood Ape could force itself into a human form but a Bottle Bug could not). Spotting a flaw in this disguise, such as a Luminata's tail, requires a (Perception + Awareness) roll at difficulty 5. This difficulty is reduced to 1 if at any point the demon use a charm, the form bulging and shifting as it cannot contain the hellish power it uses. The true nature of this demon is revealed by any effect that can see through a magical disguise, if the demon sleeps or if they are incapacitated.

I did up some extra keys. How do these seem?

[buoyant summit]

Urge to make Hornet Lunar...

As in like

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silk-song-hk-poshanka-pushanka-gif-1126523680611628740

[lament owl]

I could see it

[nova yew]

I could see it

[buoyant summit]

Beastwoman descended from those from the Mountain of the Spider King

Maybe possesses some strange autobot tech

[velvet raft]

... huh, I never noticed this, but it means that Infernals and Abyssals are both immune to Arcane Fate, right?

[buoyant summit]

Huh

That's convenient for my Arajana Sid

Half of her Circle are Infernals

[chilly sluice]

well circlemates are exempt anyway, for gameplay convenience

[buoyant summit]

And they're the two who most align with her objective, i.e. brutally dismantle Rankars Tyranny in Gem

[buoyant summit]

T r u e

oh yeah gk is in this game lmao

But he's an Alch

[velvet raft]

As an alchemical >_>

But yeah, I was checking to see if Immutable Self-Concept Axiom did anything against it, and noticed that actually Infernals are just flatly immune. Fun!

[chilly sluice]

are Alchs still enemies of fate in 3e?

[buoyant summit]

And our primary ranged fighter

[velvet raft]

I don't believe they are

[buoyant summit]

Well, maybe discounting the sorcerer

[velvet raft]

I am also a pretty solid sorcerer :D

[buoyant summit]

Lord we have two...

[prisma sun]

They aren't of Creation in 3e

so I don't think there's any strong opinions on them

[nova yew]

Yup!

[velvet raft]

clearly this means Infernals continue to be ideal romantic partners for sids right

[limpid badge]

waiting for someone to make this mistake

🫶

[next delta]

3e Autocthon has an off-brand loom of fate that will synchronize with Creation (if he comes back). So all the fate stuff works normally for and inside him

[dense verge]

yeah they have version compatibility with the Loom

[next delta]

Do they still forget about Sids?

[chilly sluice]

it does feel a little weird that Arcane Fate doesn't work against the group of people Sids are most likely to be opposed to

[velvet raft]

In my personal book Infernals and Sids are perfect foils to each other, and that's practically the same thing as star-crossed lovers amirite :V

[chilly sluice]

but I guess that's a long running thing for Sids

[velvet raft]

Tbf Arcane Fate is something about sids that is deeply and probably irrevocably borken

... you know what I'm not fixing that typo

[next delta]

... I'm confusing Arcane Fate with the taking on a role ability aren't I?

[velvet raft]

Might be!

[chilly sluice]

that's Resplendent Destiny

[velvet raft]

Arcane Fate is the thing that makes Resplendent Destinies necessary

[next delta]

Right, that's it

[velvet raft]

I gotta give whoever named it kudos

[dense verge]

Alchs do get slapped by Arcane Fate (unless they have Inexplicable Arcane Fate immunity from being PC circlemates)

[next delta]

Do Resplendent Destinies still work on enemies of fate?

[velvet raft]

They are using the technically accurate definition of the word arcane

Arcane means little-known, secret, or forgotten

[prisma sun]

Yes

[bleak hazel]

resplendent destinies work on everyone who is not outright immune to arcane fate

[next delta]

Or does everyone think the Sid is the mysterious vizier and the newly exalted Infernal is confused and like "what do you mean, that's Steve"

[bleak hazel]

so they don't work on Abyssals/Infernals

on the upside sids have 5000 charms with specific "fuck enemies of fate" clauses

so you can see he's not a beggar but he can also explode you with a whole bunch of stuff in return

[velvet raft]

They do have a couple of cool tricks though

Oh wait misread

[bleak hazel]

Loom-Snarling Deception makes you not-an-enemy-of-fate and as such you are instantly subject to arcane fate the moment you use it

which is entertaining

strikes me as a classic Ebby Not As Planned moment

[velvet raft]

Yeah my favorite of the tricks is the one that lets you treat enemies of fate as spirits/gods

Hey, incidentally, guess what Sids are really good at fucking over

(Spirits. Gods.)

I think it's a lore charm? "Fate Is All That Exists" or something?

[bleak hazel]

Fate Is All Things

[velvet raft]

There we go

[next delta]

"oh. So Steve has a bunch of anti me powers huh? I'll show him"
<Later> "Why did I do this. And who is this Steve guy I kept writing about in my journal"

[velvet raft]

Terminal Sanctions a demon git fucked

[limpid badge]

we looked at that charm for our mixed-circle game and i had to point out that it would explode and kill us all as soon as my abyssal vented enough limit to make a temp shadowland

[bleak hazel]

works on demons anyway

the fun part is playing Deathlord pokeball

[velvet raft]

Ah true

Beat up the deathlord, bind them forever in a vase

[bleak hazel]

there's also Foretold Epitaph Epiphany, which allows them to treat either anyone doomy (abyssals, people under Endings horoscopes/prophecies) as Undead or all enemies of fate with a repurchase

[velvet raft]

pulls out the sid medicine tree

[bleak hazel]

and it's the capstone of the 3 charm turn undead tree which means anyone who can do that has serious heavy artillery against abyssals/infernals

Storm-Following Silence is one hell of a nuke if only one target eats all of it

[velvet raft]

"how can I fuck you over, let me count the ways"

[bleak hazel]

Cha + Init agg damage against Resolve

with an added clause that lets someone choose to die on the spot to avoid being hit by it, which is hilarious

peaceable conclusion is also this wonderful silly charm because it gives you Essence +2 motes back and clears limit, and nothing says you need to use it on people who wanted to die today

after every fight you just walk up to one of the incapped guys and go "boom, dead" to recover juice

it also conveniently hides bodies

[prisma sun]

Misc make your sid

Make the funny

[bleak hazel]

abyssal first

then Adult Rival

(well, young rival is like 23 but he's a little shit so I am demoting him from adult status)

Rival and Grinning Mask are in a different campaign and about 80% of their dialogue is doing various Statler and Waldorf-esque bits

or maybe Orikan and Trazyn because they are superpowered globetrotting interdimensional adventurers

but they don't dislike each other quite that much

[limpid badge]

no old man toxic yaoi got it

[lament owl]

saw someone on tumblr doing Abyssal/Geitimian shipping

"Sad about our mythical pasts we can never return to" couple

[nova yew]

NO

[nova yew]

I love this so much

[lament owl]

oh? what is your pick

[nova yew]

Elemental coworker or a ghost
Ghosts are I think also immune to arcane fate on account of them being dead

[lament owl]

only at essence 5+

[nova yew]

Is it?

I thought the reason they couldn’t predict the underworld is because of

Well

The death

Lemme double check

[lament owl]

right here

[nova yew]

The Bureau of Destiny refers to beings from beyond
for such matters. for such matters.
Creation as “enemies of fate.” Demons, the undead, the
fae, and others of their ilk aren’t subject to fate’s laws.
Occluded from the Loom of Fate’s predictions, their
every act has the potential to disrupt planned desti-
nies, while their magic risks disrupting causality and
Creation’s stability. Preventing enemies of fate from
destabilizing destiny falls under the Bureau’s remit,
though they prioritize the most dangerous targets — a
sorcerer’s bound retinue of demons or an ancestor
cult’s ghostly patrons are unlikely to cause any harm to
reality that the pattern spiders can’t fix.

Says it

Right there in the book

Oh wait

Damn they have to be exalted to be immune?

sigh

[chilly sluice]

or Essence 5+

[nova yew]

I guess a jackal who eats lies

That’s actually a solid choice

I’m now committing to the bit

[lament owl]

Sidereals should kiss a jackal that eats lies

[nova yew]

Type of partner who keeps you on the straight and narrow

I mean it could be gay and narrow

Point is they can hold you accountable

And they’re like essence 6

At least I think

No it’s essence 5

Close enough

[dense verge]

Heaven and Hell Joining Bond

[lament owl]

ok hear me out

Sidereal/Nephwrack

[nova yew]

Green lady’s enemies to lovers dynamic with the bishop

[south horizon]

and the Silver Prince

and the Mask

and who knows who else

[buoyant summit]

Depending, I feckin might lol

Two Infernals that both share my Sid's explicit goal

[chilly sluice]

I don't recognize most of this, but Touma and Marche does give a pretty specific vibe

[limpid badge]

is she really gonna go for the Hungry Hungry Warchief

[buoyant summit]

Oh I have an Endings Sid in a separate, live game on Mondays

She's an Arajana

And fucking angry

Maybe angrier than either Infernal

[limpid badge]

Aaaaah

Well go for it~! Nothing bad will happen~!

[buoyant summit]

Yes, Horizon Caste, come closer to the Endings Sid who doesn't know what Sids are, wants to watch Gem burn, and is learning martial arts from Sibri

xD

[fierce star]

... Marche is an iconic get

[prisma sun]

Does creation have time zones?

[velvet raft]

Top left: Jenny Sparks, ruthless antihero, living spirit of the 20th century, goddess of electricity, and once-leader of The Authority during which time her tagline was, "we are the authority. Behave."
Top right: Caerula Sanguis. Perhaps the last living vampire, extraordinarily proud martial artist with a deep and abiding sense righteousness and sacrifice for the greater good.
Middle right: Death of the Endless. Friendly, personable, death as a natural event, but still Death.
Bottom right: Members of two opposing women's roller derby teams.

[dense verge]

the sun tends to set later in the day in the north iirc, but no one knows why

[velvet raft]

I don't really think Marche maps to anything in Exalted remotely cleanly because Marche is right (although the narrative does a spectacularly poor job of articulating why) — FFTA Ivalice is, in fact, an illusion created at the expense of seemingly everyone in it except the group of four sad kids it serves to benefit. That's what I'm going for here: the willingness to shatter unrighteous fictions with violent power despite the immediate consequences.

Most of these are chosen for something along those lines: devotion to a very axiomatic sense of justice and a willingness to break things in its name. Death is there because this character does see death as a natural force that doesn't have to be the enemy. The roller derby match is there because Here With The Chains has nearly as much brutish violence in herself as two whole roller derby teams no actually I stand by that

[fierce star]

roller derby IS a violence

I should make one of these for the infernal i'm tinkering with maybe

[buoyant summit]

I would share my Lunar's here but one of the inspos is a game character with his chest out due to a mod <XD

[tulip folio]

Fucking Infernals

Infernal: Presses the Melodrama Button

[tulip folio]

How do these seem btw?

[merry arch]

i am a verdant emptiness endowment enjoyer so i quite like those

[bleak hazel]

saw Blade Runner again and now I have excellent inspiration for my War Infernal

about the right degree of unhinged and driven by the right mix of epic-scale hope and spite

[tulip folio]

Presence Infernal

[bleak hazel]

also just a magnificent performance all around, obviously

"just steal Rutger Hauer's acting talent" sadly not an option but still an amazing supply of vibes

[marsh garden]

do mobility penalties just affect evasion, or do they apply to other rolls like rushes in some way?

[prisma sun]

https://i.imgur.com/4r44TyK.png

[velvet raft]

Tragically no way to bypass the mobility penalty from ISOB -_-

[wise ocean]

I don't think there is one unless it's Distorted, no?

[fierce star]

hmm. Fiddling with some artifact armor for an infernal. I'm not sure what to make it out of or the fluff yet, but my like. Mental image for it is this... sheet of plates, basically, that one steps onto and it sort of flows/folds up over the body, skin-tight but heavly armored from head to toe. I swear there's a sentai or someth---wait this is one of the iron man suits but more bondage themed

[marsh garden]

oh okay, thank you!

i looked for a sidebar like this in the crb but i couldn't find one

[velvet raft]

... huh, I could have sworn there was a -2

That

Helps a lot

With various things

[marsh garden]

isob?

[fierce star]

ivnincible skin of bronze, a spell

*invincible

[marsh garden]

ahh

[chilly sluice]

It gives you a bunch of soak without being armor

[marsh garden]

i remember the full spell, yeah, i'm just terrible with acronyms until i'm comfortable with them, at which point it's an effort of will to not use them

the woes of being built wrong

[velvet raft]

Invulnerable Skin of Bronze is a major standby as a control spell because it grants you +Essence soak independent of whether the spell is in use or not

[tulip folio]

Vivisection of Thought From
Cost: 8m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: <Some Intro Charms>
One must not merely achieve mastery in the body but mastery in the mind. The martial artist's mindscape extends outwards, forming into spheres that circle her in perfect orbit.

The martial artist gains the following benefits:

-She gains +1 Parry
-She floats in the air, ignoring Difficult Terrain and adding +Lore to Movement actions.
-Opponents reduce their Soak and Hardness against her attacks by how much their Temporary Willpower is lower than their Permanent Willpower, maximum 5.

Special Activation Rules: Whenever a character in the scene spends 2 or more Willpower in a single tick, the martial artist may reflexively enter this Form.

Back to tinkering with this martial arts now that Infernals are about. How does this seem?

[marsh garden]

adds lore to movement

[fierce star]

it's for nerd shit, yeaaaaah

[marsh garden]

this implies a very cool martial art to me, for whatever that opinion's worth!

i like that none of its benefits are directly using mental or social bullshit to hit people, but you've got two different places where, if you're already a fighter too, you get powerful benefits from being a huge fucking nerd that won't stop yapping

[tulip folio]

Yeah it's a 'I work out at the library' martial art. XD

[buoyant summit]

As A Person In Library School

Tell me more

[tulip folio]

Oh it was a joke based on this meme.

The martial art is based on the Yozi SWLIHN. Emulating the constant logical circling of her spheres.

[marsh garden]

i know it's probably just a smudge, but i've always liked to think that the tiny little smear in the bottom-left is a normal person for scale

[buoyant summit]

Oh I was jokingly just conveying my interest in the MA lol

[tulip folio]

The intent is it's a defensive grappling style that has mind hand manipulation in the style weapons

[nova yew]

OOO

[marsh garden]

adding "damage dice" to a withering attack as opposed to raw damage is just another way of saying "post-soak damage", right?

or sorry, no it wouldn't be would it

post-soak damage would just add successes

but adding damage dice is always better than adding raw, yeah?

[limpid badge]

ive made an awful girl here

[marsh garden]

i love the her

[limpid badge]

what if a princess was so scared she decided to Conquer Everything About It.

[mighty rover]

YEEEEEEAAAAH

[buoyant summit]

ooo, fun

[south horizon]

which charm are you looking at for example?

and whether or not it's better depends

if the post soak dmg is all you're getting through, then typically if it deals directly levels of dmg is better

if it's ebign added to a value then dice is better

that said i'm not sure if there is stuff that adds strictly to the final dmg value for withering dmg

i could be wrong, but i think it's typically adding to what you roll in most cases

[marsh garden]

sorry, i have no idea what you mean by that

[south horizon]

for which part

[marsh garden]

does this not add to the final damage value?

[south horizon]

it adds dice to what you roll

[marsh garden]

as for this, i believe i was looking at thousand blades

[south horizon]

for dmg

it does not directly increase the dmg you deal

[marsh garden]

oh, right, i missed dice there

i was probably thinking of this

[south horizon]

JESUS

which charm is that in abyssals?

thank god it says base wound penalty

or that would be cracked

[marsh garden]

life-annihilating castigation

[south horizon]

hell, it's still pretty cracked depending on the rest of the charm

[south horizon]

hot damn

yeah that is uh

that's gonna wreck somebody

even if you only have them in their -2s

tripling post soak dmg is crazy work

even funnier if they're something like an infernal or a lunar

where the bulk of the HLs is in the -4s

but yeah typically there aren't a ton of direct dmg withering effects compared to direct damage lethal effects

[marsh garden]

ah, there it was - i was looking for a mastery benefit that did the opposite, not this terrestrial penalty

[chilly sluice]

I saw another charm that multiplied withering recently, but forgot where

[marsh garden]

this was what spurred the initial question and thought

and i just kind of got caught up in the malus's wording

because i wasn't really thinking about raw damage being especially worse than damage dice

i definitely need to look at QCs and other NPC writeups, to understand average soak

[south horizon]

varries a bit but prob like 10-12 is the most baseline soak is gonnag et if the enemy isn't designed to be tanky

if memory serves

since it means that for most weapons, you need to get a good solid hit to knock off any initative

then you have. uh

certain outliers

like elephants

and fuckin hippos

[marsh garden]

right, i saw something talking about uh

how an elephant can 1v1 minor gods?

or something like that

[south horizon]

probably ye as far as like

base QC 1v1 goes

[chilly sluice]

A lot of gods also just aren't that strong tbh

[south horizon]

in practice, it probably wouldn't go that way because gods can have other magic

also that

most terrestrial gods aren't really fighters

[chilly sluice]

If they materialize

[south horizon]

fuckin

[marsh garden]

ah, fair

[south horizon]

soak of 16/ hardnes of 6

for an elephant

or a soak of 20 if it has armor

[marsh garden]

where are elephants and hippos statted up?

[south horizon]

hundred devil's night parade

supplement that combines a buynch of mini stat blocks that were made over like

a year

[marsh garden]

gotcha

[south horizon]

but ye elephant is just an insanely ovetuned stat block

[marsh garden]

bro what

twenty HL??

[south horizon]

remember that this thing has legnedary size

as well as the aforementioned soak values

[marsh garden]

which means uh

no onslaught

[south horizon]

yerp

[marsh garden]

can't be crashed?

[chilly sluice]

Oh they have Legendary Size too?

[marsh garden]

and some amount of decisive damage gating, right?

[south horizon]

unless you have 10+ raw dmg in the attack

[marsh garden]

ah

[chilly sluice]

Can't lose more than a certain amount of HL per attack yeah

[south horizon]

and yeah str max dmg, not including stuff added by magic

oh sorry, 3+str

[marsh garden]

bruh

why

does the elephant

[south horizon]

i do not no what they were smoking

[marsh garden]

have artifact armor

with 6 hardness

[south horizon]

no clue

now remember

[marsh garden]

or wait no

[south horizon]

this is a shape

[marsh garden]

that's just natural

[south horizon]

a lunar can take

[chilly sluice]

Does Hippo also have Legendary Size?

[marsh garden]

why the fuck do elephants naturally have 6 hardness, which i have been told is a stat that only applies to fucking sorcery?

are elephants all casting bronzeskin on themselves?

[south horizon]

no hardness doesn't apply to sorcery, it's like

[marsh garden]

naturally

[south horizon]

the dmg threshold

[marsh garden]

"fucking sorcery" as in magic shit

[south horizon]

most have X iniative to deal damage

ah

[marsh garden]

hardness only comes from artifact armor and charms, aiui

[south horizon]

then ye

no clue

[marsh garden]

(including spells)

and also apparently an elephant

[south horizon]

elephant also has maxed out qc attack stats

[chilly sluice]

Clearly they should just make armor out of elephant hide

[marsh garden]

why is the elephant's skin more impervious to damage than heavy plate or artifact light armor

i understand being more resilient than a human bozo in armor

[south horizon]

now technically, elephants are that thick

skin can take bullets and shit

but it's silly to make them like

that

on top of everything else

[marsh garden]

not heavier caliber bullets than full plate, no?

only pretty light stuff i thought

[south horizon]

that i'm less certain on

but yeah, it's extremely silly

[marsh garden]

sorry, what are threshold successes?

[south horizon]

what you roll over your targets defense

[marsh garden]

hey what the fuck why do they also get to flurry two attacks

[south horizon]

so if you have a defense 4 and someone rolls a decisive with 8 success

then whatever damage they roll, now gets 4 more dice added to it

[marsh garden]

ah i see

i feel like that's phrased differently elsewhere

[south horizon]

very possibly

exalted has had issues with consistency in terms for a while before it kinda

straightened out

also hippos do not have legendary size

theyd o have

[marsh garden]

what book are hippos in?

[chilly sluice]

Threshold success is used fairly consistently I think

[south horizon]

13 soak and 7 hardness

[marsh garden]

i need to see those motherfuckers if they're comparable to elephants

[south horizon]

Lunars

[chilly sluice]

But yeah it's just successes over what you needed

[south horizon]

you are uh

not gunna like hippos

any better

jesus christ

at the very least

[marsh garden]

...am i reading this right?

[south horizon]

they don't have maxed attack rolls

[marsh garden]

nineteen lethal on their damage rolls?

am i like

misunderstanding something

[south horizon]

nope

don't get bit

[marsh garden]

WHY DOES A SINGLE HIPPO BITE INSTANTLY KILL AN EXALT WITH TWO OX-BODIES?

SORRY THREE OX-BODIES

[south horizon]

oh ur reading that wrong

the L means it's dealing lethal dmg on those attacks

it still follows decisive damage rules

[marsh garden]

oh okay

so that's just dice

[south horizon]

ye

it does mean

artifact armor

does not save you

from the initative hit

[marsh garden]

it still instantly kills an exalt through artifact medium armor on average

[coral wraith]

to be fair to the hippo i'd buy that

[marsh garden]

but i will accept that as a declaration of like

Exalted setting hippos

[south horizon]

yeah like the hippo's bite force isn't quite like

a problem if ur a combat spec

[marsh garden]

"it's a real hippo except it has essence" is like

[south horizon]

because it only has 7 dice to swing

[marsh garden]

yeah sure

[south horizon]

now

if ur crashed near a hippo

then you have a problem

[marsh garden]

instantly killing a human if it successfully bites it is what i'd expect out of a hippo on magic

[south horizon]

again

the worst part about the hippo

is realizing that a lunar can take this

evne easier than an elephant

[buoyant summit]

Meanwhile my dumb ass decided to be a bear

[south horizon]

and looking at it's special abilities

I mean you can still find and hunt a hippo

not limited to just ur spirit shape

also i think bears are a good combat shape

not one of the broken ones

like elephants

or cats

[marsh garden]

what makes cats broken?

super high defense stats?

[south horizon]

yerp

[marsh garden]

as expected

[south horizon]

i think someone says if u build right

you can get a resting evasion of like

11

or some bullshit

[marsh garden]

jesus

i am

beginning to suspect that finding undodgeable, unblockable, and/or unsoakable options is

very important for dealing with edge cases

[south horizon]

i mean

if ur going against specifically qcs

not that much

there are definitely some wacky edge cases for sure

but most qcs are tuned to be not that big a threat out the box

relative to tehir power level anyway

also let's see. . . evasion of 5, tiny creature bonus gives +2, specialty gives +1, and Stunting gives another +1 for a total of 9 for a cat

and there is prob some lunar charms that can up that

before charms come into play

i don't think animal mertis count as charm bonuses either

i could be wrong tho

. . .

oh

Lunars also get the Hippo dmg values

i did not realize that

[marsh garden]

i assume this isn't what they'd be talking about for 11 resting evasion?

[south horizon]

9it might be

i forget what miniscule size does

okay

thank fully

[marsh garden]

+3 eva

or +2 against tiny

[south horizon]

animal trait bonuses do count

for charm dice

but yeah, i'm far from a lunar expert when it comes to animal fuckery

i've just heard that cats are OP for evasion builds

[marsh garden]

are cats in core or lunars?

or hundred devils

[south horizon]

core

[marsh garden]

huh, am i missing something?

i'm not seeing eva 5

even on the bigger cats

[south horizon]

you can replace animal values with your own as a lunar

[marsh garden]

OH

i see

[south horizon]

yeah you basically get the best of both worlds, though if the animal is better than you, it counts as charm dice

this does not apply for soak or base dmg, however

but yeah my quick math got me to like, 9, so there probably is some passive evasion booster in the lunar charm tree i'm not aware about

to essentially give you a maxed out evasion excellency vs any attack for peanuts

that or they were (slightly) exaggeratting

that being said

9 evasion before you spend any motes

is still a bitch too hit

[marsh garden]

since qcs can't stunt by default, right?

so they're just stuck with their raws that usually go up to like

10-12 dice?

[south horizon]

most won't but up to STs

[marsh garden]

gotcha

[south horizon]

abut ye most qcs will have an attack between like

7/8 to 10-ishes

10 being like

some of the upper end of fighters

as a reminder, Ligier has a base roll of 14

[marsh garden]

unless you're an elephant and have 14

[south horizon]

yeah

14 is, as core puts it, meant to be the most elite of elites of skill as far as attacks/rolls go

[tulip folio]

The only guys higher than that are Fae Cataphracts but Fae Cataphracts are weird

In that they've got insane static dice pools but unlike powerful demons don't have any excellencies

[south horizon]

yeah, 2e had it so the way fae work is just

they break reality

[marsh garden]

oh, demons get excellencies? that makes sense

[south horizon]

with high dice pools

i wish we got more fae in 3e

they're kinda

hard to build

[tulip folio]

I really want them to give us a like 'Hey, I'm a Named Character' level Combat Raksha.

We've got a named character social raksha

And she's broken the will of a prince of earth elementals to be her willing slave, despite earth being the element that is the bane of fey

'Hey, I see your type advantage and went Nah'

[marsh garden]

hm, what kinds of roll-based support charms exist? by that i mean charms that benefit ally rolls, and/or allow allies to make rolls

ideally social, but any work

[tulip folio]

The various 'anthem of the X exalted' charms are a common set of performance charms across exalts that buff ally rolls.

[marsh garden]

i see, thank you

ah damn, battle anthems

that makes sense

i was anticipating something less literal lmao

[coral wraith]

martial arts wise, Throne Shadow in Sidereals and Cerulean Lute of Harmony in the Sid Companion Previews both do great support stuff

[marsh garden]

i don't think i've seen any of the previews for any companion stuff that's not out yet

[coral wraith]

https://theonyxpath.com/agents-of-heaven-preview-2-the-flying-guillotine-and-cerulean-lute-of-harmony-style/

[marsh garden]

ah, neat!

thanks again

[coral wraith]

[marsh garden]

was trying to look for example charms or powers to like

prompt ally social rolls, or add one of my own principles as a supporting one to an ally's roll

or something similar

but not seeing anything quite like that

most charms like that are, reasonably, entirely self-centered

because you can't exactly guarantee social allies in every scene you're in

[chilly sluice]

Silver Voiced Nightingale also has some buffs for allies

Though also mostly in combat

[marsh garden]

mm, so, the idea is for it to be a relatively tame effect, but what i'm trying to do is something like When a person you share a positive Major or Defining Tie with makes an instill, inspire, or threaten roll, he may treat one target of the roll as having a Minor Tie of fear or awe toward both him and you. If the target already has one, or if their Resolve is lower than your (Appearance or Charisma), this counts as a Major Tie instead.

and i'm trying to figure out a: if this is in fact a tame effect; b: how much it would cost; c: how in the world to word it; d: whether it needs to be stronger or weaker (and if something similar that leverages the strength of referenced Intimacies already exists)

[tulip folio]

Industrial Power (6m, Reflexive, Instant, Essence 1)
The Puppet Grappler doubles 9s on a Grapple Gambit. On a success, in addition to the normal effects of a Grapple, the target is knocked back one range band or knocked prone. If the target is knocked back, the Puppet reflexively moves with it, maintaining the grapple.

Pondering this for an Quick Character Grappler. Does this seem okay? Trying to avoid the blood ape 'And then he turbomurders you' style of grappling and making it more of a Controller Grappler who locks people down/penalizes them for allies. So they get 'what if a grapple was also a smashing attack' to add some more control to it instead of Savage Boosts.

They've got a standard demon/machine spirit dice pool of 9 for the attack, so it adds roughly 0.9 successes, though being a dice trick it's a bit more variable than a flat success.

[south horizon]

so, i will say automatic major tie is a very strong effect

even conditonally

As this effectively lowers the target's resolve by that much as well as letting ur ally change bigger parts of their world view

and also can be hatd to avoid because APP tend to have more than a few effects that let them break cap

so off the dome, prob should not be spammable(either give it a scene limit or make it cost WP), 5+ mote cost, and maybe specific that it only take base attributes into account? up to you in the last one