Exalted

[bleak hazel]

yeah I am lucky that my swordmaster is Rival and as such it doesn't matter what his artifact is, it gets all the same stuff

[buoyant summit]

lol

[bleak hazel]

if artifact weapon stats weren't highly important to his deal I'd have made Silken Armour instead

I suppose +whelm on stuff you link to your armour's chains is not an unreasonable evo there

maybe I will cook

[wise ocean]

speaking of I should finish poking at the evo tree and pass it over to you before deebgame starts, though I both have (a) no idea what mote costs should be and (b) an idea I can make the gun from 3* (what I can afford) to 5* (what the lore is) over the course of the game by attuning to it™️

which makes evo writing harder

[lament owl]

I have been having my abyssal's 5 dot artifact have a little bit of a peersonality and emote in rp scenes

Odd creature in my weapon slot

[bleak hazel]

my E5 swordsid build is steadily being optimised to "can duel Ligier" levels purely because I like having a testbed for all my dumb ideas and it amuses me to imagine this mildly impetuous silversmith becoming Exa

if he ever gets there in a campaign it'll probably look different

the whiteroom build's current best state is basically my mental picture of what Elder Gleam had going on before he died and where Rival might make it to

[wise ocean]

... oh, huh

[bleak hazel]

I think I might have figured out how to optimise vibes and build for Rival's one artifact

[buoyant summit]

is Misc running a deebgame?

Nice

[bleak hazel]

which is to give his silken armour a Glorious-Solar-Saber-alike that he can use to link his giant arsenal to for raw artifact stats but nothing beyond that

since I don't actually want him to have multiple

I promise it will not be as imbalanced as Mela's Coil

[buoyant summit]

I will allow this

[wise ocean]

the 1/story "I'm betraying the principle of my lodge for this great purpose" capstone for YZ's gun, the Seventh Bullet in the whole Der Freischutz allegory, I can just rip straight out of Infernal Archery

the whole thing where you get one (1) bullet to fire against a guy you Really Fucking Hate and it's hilariously OP

[bleak hazel]

I have been about to run deebgame for like six months but I've been dealing with the kind of unemployment that eats more of your time than just having a job

[buoyant summit]

Real dude

I am so sorry

[dense verge]

very real

[bleak hazel]

hey, it was fun to spend a week rebuilding my father's garage for him

good to work with your hands sometimes

[dense verge]

i should get to designing artifcats some time

[buoyant summit]

Fair enough Misc

[bleak hazel]

although I finished painting all the walls and then went "wait I need to edge highlight" which was a very silly momentary thought

[dense verge]

give my not-a-lunar a hotline miami mask that gives her discount lunar berserker charms

[buoyant summit]

And if there're spots open for when you can find the time I would love to be considered

[fierce star]

edge highlighting...

[buoyant summit]

largest Warhams diorama

[wise ocean]

warpstone green extreme highlight on the corner

[dense verge]

misc you need the garage tournament ready, the judges will never OK it at this rate

[velvet raft]

I'm playing around with a a crucible-rules sid who goes heavy on non-combat charms (roughly 50/50) because I haven't really looked as much at those and like

[bleak hazel]

look it's three colours, it's battle-ready

[velvet raft]

At nearly Essence 4, this character has 5 martial arts charms

And seems very fun to play

[bleak hazel]

and it has OSL (the actual striplight)

[velvet raft]

Even in combat

[buoyant summit]

you don't need a huge combat chassis

[wise ocean]

sids seem like they can get a lot out of being the non-combat part of a circle

Greater Prophecy Georg

[bleak hazel]

noncombat sids are great

[buoyant summit]

I just like them because I'm Big Stupid And Love Fights

[bleak hazel]

don't get me wrong, my pet combat build is a Sid because I love freaky blue deck stuff more than I like the Wall of Stats

[buoyant summit]

Misc do you play blue in MtG?

[fierce star]

Misc does the draw-go of ex3 builds

[bleak hazel]

but my actual in-game sids tend to be way less combat-built because of how fun all their weird stuff is

[buoyant summit]

Dost thou brand thyself my eternal enemy?

[bleak hazel]

I have never played more than like half a dozen games of MTG

I just know the themes

[buoyant summit]

fair

I'm a G/R/W player

[bleak hazel]

I played a lot of rush decks in Hearthstone at least

[fierce star]

I am a dyed in the wool Esper stan and you will drag my stax, mill, and board control pieces out of my cold dead hands

it still counts as winning if the opponent scoops

[bleak hazel]

the reason I like bluedeck sidereals so much is that it's secretly an attrition build in a trenchcoat

[buoyant summit]

My partner is Dimir and has four of the cards that turn my creatures into fucking FISH

Anyways

[bleak hazel]

you are really squishy but you are super annoying to hit and ideally you only start throwing killshots when your enemy is out of everything

[buoyant summit]

I think I may not actually bring this Malenialike to completion

She conceptually is very fun

Chargenwise

~ eeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ~

[bleak hazel]

CMOS Sids are not that, CMOS sids spam clashes for 3-4 rounds and then cut the bastard's head off

[velvet raft]

I will say that a full-tilt Unweaving Method build seems kinda amazing

[bleak hazel]

duckification optional

I should really make a CMOS character someday

but I'd find it hard not to just go Sid Melee again

they meld so well

[buoyant summit]

Unweaving can be used with CMOS, right?

[bleak hazel]

yeah, it takes knives

[buoyant summit]

since CMOS uses thrown stuff

ye

Fucking Hell

[bleak hazel]

dual knives sid melee + CMOS is something else

clash clash clash clash reflexive aim clash die

[buoyant summit]

I wish I fully grokked what Unweaving could do before making my fighty sid builds

[bleak hazel]

also pay an extra 2 motes per swing because I am dematerialised all the fucking time for kicks

I hope they get whoever did CMOS to do more SMAs, I really like its big enlightenment energy + convenient lower-scale charms

[velvet raft]

My hot take is that the best fit for Unweaving is Emerald Gyre

Specifically because Unweaving is a simple charm

So Emerald Gyre lets it be combined with simple MA charms.

[buoyant summit]

Become High And Unmake The World

Wait

[bleak hazel]

I think you don't do pure unweaving method CMOS, you just have another combat tree and then grab it on the side

so you can bazam people at range

[buoyant summit]

That sounds like a fucking amazing fightsid Serenities concept

[velvet raft]

Yeah, Unweaving fits with so many things that you can absolutely just have it as a side thing

But I like the idea of investing in it heavily

[bleak hazel]

also can I just remark that Cannibalistic Heritage Technique is super underrated

[velvet raft]

I'd say something like Ebon Shadow -> Crystal Chameleon -> EGOA is an extremely good entry

[bleak hazel]

"fuck your artifact, it's broken, goodbye"

[wise ocean]

I've been noodling at fightsid (brawl/big sword/cartridge gain-burn mechanic) on the side but there's unfortunately not that much in the game I can do to sell the fantasy other than taking a bunch of 5* artifact evocations

which is fine, but!

at some point I need to make a fightsid that actually uses what the game gives me

[bleak hazel]

Sid Brawl is very good by itself

You may enjoy Crimson Panoply because it uses khatars with brawl as well as bows

[velvet raft]

Also apropos of nothing, I appreciate that Sid Lore has a really good influence defense

[bleak hazel]

so you do combo attacks with melee and ranged

[fierce star]

Hmm

[wise ocean]

this is true, it's just kind of funny to be looking at my combat engine and go "for a man with a gunblade, most of the time he's punching a dude into a curb and then breaking a chair over his head"

[fierce star]

so I'm reading INfernal Awareness, and I think it's interesting that the taste/smell and hearing charm keys invoke negatives for making your super-senses permanent, and the touch one doesn't have a 'make it permanent' option like the taste/smell, hearing, and sight ones do

oh wait, sorry, sight can't be made permanent either

gaslit myself for a moment

(I also didn't read that one too deeply since this is for a blind character)

[bleak hazel]

you know, they really didn't have to do this to the CMOS capstone

"yeah just go wild with it"

[fierce star]

... I really wonder if hte permanent upgrade for hateful wretched noise is worth it. I can get around the issues iwth all-hunger rapacity with murder is meat, at least

[bleak hazel]

a great series of Names there

picturing this character in my mind just off those

new Murder is Meat is a worthy successor to the old one

[fierce star]

infernal charm names are fantastic tbh

but yeah it's the Mind-Hand Azimuth I'm working on. She's blind and a double amputee because I love sufferi---

fuck i'm a yozi

I love sending my blorbos into awful situations to watch them dance for my amusement

[buoyant summit]

Mind-Hand?

[fierce star]

Mind-Hand Manipulation, in Infernal Lore

it's, broadly, Useful Telekinesis Abiltiies

[buoyant summit]

Can you use it to... fight???

[bleak hazel]

Infernals are the uncontested master of doing the charles xavier pose and watching their enemies fall over

[fierce star]

Yes!

[wise ocean]

most useful abilities are "crushing a guy's entire skull"

[bleak hazel]

yes, it's a whole mini-tree of combat charms

[bleak hazel]

won't equal a true combat ability master but it's perfectly enough to be getting on with

[fierce star]

and then it has like ten keys

and two upgrade charms

[wise ocean]

you can get about four charms of pure combat out of it, usefully

[buoyant summit]

Primordial Lore...

[bleak hazel]

the only annoying part is that you do need an upgrade to let you pop it and swing on the same turn

but that's not unusual for GSS-likes anyway

and it has artifact stats

[fierce star]

Yeah; i'm likely to make an artifact for the character with an evocation that is 'mind-hand manipulation is permanently active for you'

Not like, the free evocation, you're spending XP for that

[wise ocean]

base + the combat key + the other combat key + the orbit charm + the key for that which lets you steal people's weapons

[bleak hazel]

I hope they clear up the wording on the keys because they are a little jank in places

namely the one that is a bit ambiguous on whether you can just swing with artifact weapons at medium range at no penalty or not

[fierce star]

Ash: princple-invoking too, so you do double damage

[bleak hazel]

which you should not be able to do

[wise ocean]

Oh, wait, I forgot about that completely

yes, that's also quite good

[wise ocean]

yes, at some point they probably do need to clarify if you can use the "you can do fine manipulation without penalty" key to hit people with hammers

[bleak hazel]

yeah, you should not be able to attach the entire melee tree to MHM

[fierce star]

wouldn't you still be making attacks with wits + lore, so you couldn't use melee charms anyway?

[buoyant summit]

hehehe this character is very mentally healthy

Ligier: "Now that is a student."

Oh wow

Infernal Sorcs can just go 'lmao not gathering motes for this turn' and not lose them

with an E1 charm

Damn

[bleak hazel]

that is stock sorcery charmtech, everyone has that one

[buoyant summit]

Except Deebs, apparently <XD

[fierce star]

and solars

because they were Early

[bleak hazel]

they should all just have that, those two were the first two sourcebooks

[buoyant summit]

I agree, and yet 'tis not so 😔

Infernals and Sids have the best versions of it

With Lunars they have to be at Burning Anima

Infernals just

Don't Lose Sorcerous Motes, LMAO

[bleak hazel]

Solars should eat shit forever but for deebs you can just give them the charms, it's well within the usual scope of custom charms

fixing the curse of linear time is universally agreed to be fine

[buoyant summit]

And Sids don't either as long as they're unarmored or in the resplendent destiny of A Smart Guy

[chilly sluice]

Abyssals I think also just don't lose sm at all with their charm version of it?

[buoyant summit]

Alchs have to spend motes to do it every turn, but turn dice from Transpuissant Int into autosux

[chilly sluice]

but also it makes sense Infernals would have the best Sorcery support charms

[buoyant summit]

Tru

Abyssals also just

Don't Lose Points

[next delta]

What would the Deeb and Solar riders be (if any)?

I guess Solars just won't lose points

[buoyant summit]

But if they gather them while having the Charm, they gain +1 Defense and Anima Soak

Deebs... no feckin clue

maybe they have to use a charm that matches their current aura?

[wise ocean]

I do want to take this but I'm both out of charm space and I have no idea, frankly, how important it is

[buoyant summit]

Depending, very

If you're not just a sorcerer in combat and likely will be engaged or need to engage

[wise ocean]

I haven't quite figured out how the action econ for actually getting to cast spells works out mathematically, since those mote costs seem... inflated

[buoyant summit]

Having that turn free without worrying about losing sm is um

nice

[buoyant summit]

A lot of attack spells are AoEs so ur paying the turn cost of gathering stuff to hit multiple targets

Death of Obsidian Butterflies hits everything in a line out to, iirc, long range?

That could be everything in an entire engagement

[next delta]

Huh, Abyssals suffer no penalties for doing regular sorcery (unlike Infernals and Necromancy)

[bleak hazel]

sorcerous motes aren't real motes, so the costs are on a different scale

[next delta]

Death of Obsidian Butterflies is very good. And absurd in Essence

[bleak hazel]

but for stuff like DOOB you just use shaping rituals + excellency to shotgun it in one turn and and then either start doing it the hard way (if you're a full sorceror) or swap to your combat tree (if you have one)

[buoyant summit]

The one exception to the 'big cost cuz AoE lmao' spell attacks is I think Flying Guillotine

Cuz it's only 12 sm

And it attacks a single target

[bleak hazel]

there are niche builds, like the fire deeb Brilliant Raptor master who casts it every round

but that's not usual for sorcery

[buoyant summit]

Unless you learn Flying Guillotine Style

[bleak hazel]

12sm is fairly normal for first circle spell costs

[wise ocean]

ah, I didn't realize you could burn excellency to get SM

[buoyant summit]

Aren't Doob and Brilliant Raptor in the 20s?

[bleak hazel]

nowhere near

[wise ocean]

that makes it a lot more manageable to open up an engagement with control butterflies and then switch to mind-hand to kill whatever's left

[buoyant summit]

Shape Sorcery is indeed an Occult roll and thus subject to excellencies

and specialties

[bleak hazel]

and yes, you use shape sorcery, roll occult and then get [Sux] sorcerous motes + whatever you put in from shaping rituals

so a big excellency and a shaping ritual usually casts your basic combat spells

but just shotgunning DOOB is not usually the kind of combat-investment-replacement that mind-hand or flying guillotine style are

battle sorcery is deliberately kind of unwieldy

[buoyant summit]

I'm playing, consciously, a Weird Motherfucker, yes

Who has Flying Guillotine Style entirely for pitched battle with groups

[wise ocean]

occult 5 + specialty + double 9s + extra 3 dice + fill in with excellency probably just gets you butterflies in one go

[buoyant summit]

In all likelihood, assuming the accompanying Int 5

[chilly sluice]

and most shaping rituals will also either let you bank some motes in advance, or give extra motes on Shape Sorcery

[bleak hazel]

bear in mind that in most cases, spamming doob every turn against a serious combat exalt will result in them parrying you and then stabbing you in the face

but it's a great opener in most fights

[wise ocean]

it's the Battlegroup Nuke Spell

especially as Control

isob is for fighting other exalts, cantata and butterflies are for making absolutely sure you're just fighting other exalts instead of getting ganged up on by a dragon of Dudes

stack them and have fun with those war charms nerd

[velvet raft]

Emerald Gyre of Aeon is kind of an odd SMA, in that dipping it for the form charm and then dipping a whole bunch of other SMAs seems extremely reasonable.

[next delta]

Wow, revert an object to a previous state (potentially centuries ago) being the first charm is pretty wild

[bleak hazel]

if I'm dipping any SMA for power it's CMOS

[next delta]

I guess it's still Essence 3

[bleak hazel]

first four charms of CMOS are a hard grapple forced movement counter, flight tech, a truly brutal AOE attack penalty to all enemies and medium range attacks with any tree scenelong

let me just pop my 5m 1wp reflexive to punch you from downtown while sitting in my -3 to-melee-attack-me web that also grants noncharm defence from cover

also the grapple counter is incredible combat skirmishing and the flight tech lets you fucking dematerialise

E3 CMOS is built different

the second bullet point there is a disgusting flurry breaker

especially if you took the turn for Many-Step Stride beforehand and can respond to an approaching Dawn by jumping fifteen feet straight up

also there's some poison but the poison is probably the least flashy one there because of the slightly jank wording on the incapacitation clause

still more really solid penalty stacking

[velvet raft]

What I'm saying is more the while EGOA is rock-solid even past the form charm, the form charm is good enough that it can be the basis for a sid who spreads out a lot (like, for instance, into CMOS and PAOC)

You don't really need to go any further in EGOA, you kinda have its single best thing right there

[bleak hazel]

Gyre Form is really good but it is also ungodly expensive in a way I dislike, although that's mostly because I'm spending a zillion motes on other ongoings

it also scales hard with how many guys you have on each side of a fight, which means I am probably underrating it because I like duels

if you have a couple of stacks of Many Guys Technique to apply onslaught the dice-adding clause carries by itself

[velvet raft]

Even just the ability to combine two simple charms is pretty crazy

[tulip folio]

Nega-sids are going to be attribute-based iirc?

[velvet raft]

Oho, really?

That could be fun

[tulip folio]

I don't 100% recall, I vaguely remember someone saying it

[velvet raft]

And feels fitting in a way I struggle to explain

Now that I finally feel I get Gets

https://tenor.com/gsmglCPshP1.gif

[bleak hazel]

I still don't like them but hey, at least they get a small book and then 5000 SMAs for me to enjoy separately

[tulip folio]

Mostly pondering since no one so far has SMA and attribute-based

[velvet raft]

I didn't like them when I understood them as cut-off possible worlds or isekai protags or something

But "fake people" clicks for me

[buoyant summit]

They're the congealed, mythopaeic remnants of discarded times which

[bleak hazel]

honestly the entire War On Heaven/nega-Sids theming is fucking awful and everything else I've heard about Gets is much better

[velvet raft]

Yes!

I'll agree with the War On Heaven being ehhhhh

[bleak hazel]

I am down for taoist alchemy roads not taken stuff, just not "hey we made Sids but better"

because Sids are already Sids

and had no need of additional enemies

[velvet raft]

FWIW they seem to be sids but worse wrt martial arts

Since they have less ability to combine styles

[bleak hazel]

they are infinitesimally worse

but we'll see what their specs look like

[buoyant summit]

As an author who ruminates often on the potentiality of her own writing and recognizes that there is great metatextual potential for a Creation (heh) acknowledging it is a Creation, Gets ultimately intrigue me

[velvet raft]

Ye

[bleak hazel]

because Sids get a lot of their MA powers from the actual charms

[buoyant summit]

But their execution must be done well or the splat will inevitably end up as navel-gazing

[bleak hazel]

also if Gets have a standard excellency then that's a surprising power drop by itself

because Sid Excellency is a lot of their MA powers due to basically having dice tricks integrated that no MA gets otherwise

[velvet raft]

I'd argue it's going to need some amount of navel-gazing, just of a very ... punk-rock sort of style

[fierce star]

navel-gazing

awh. fuck, i'm a mage the ascension player, now I gotta like gets

[buoyant summit]

Oh, metatextual musing on your own creation acknowledging you created it is inevitably navel-gazing

[fierce star]

navel-gazing and philosophical waffle house fights is like

my thing

[buoyant summit]

You Understand

[velvet raft]

Ye

[buoyant summit]

But there must be things beyond the navel-gazing

[fierce star]

yeah, that's what hte waffle house fights are for

[buoyant summit]

What form does that acknowledgement by the text take

[bleak hazel]

also my take on them is probably not aided by the fact that I find their default "cause" deeply unpleasant on a philosophical level

[buoyant summit]

Are you adept at not tipping your hand and making that acknowledgment seem convincing and not clearly you also writing that shit

[bleak hazel]

like, they aren't sympathetic on any level beyond "damn sucks to be you" for me

[buoyant summit]

Yeah the War in Heaven fucks them

I would simply discard it

I may even reverse it

They are the potentiality of forgotten times, fates that were elided entirely

The Bureau should be going 'WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA'

While the Gets are kind of

in their shit too much, realizing they aren't from anywhere

[bleak hazel]

not the War on Heaven, the basic concept of "I derive my power and my motivation from the fact I'm from a better world, and it was better Because It Had Me In It"

[buoyant summit]

For a prick like Rakan to motivate them

[bleak hazel]

sorry, get out of here with your "I reject your reality and substitute my own" things and go pick up a form like everyone fucking else

[tulip folio]

My issue with a war on heaven is Everyone Else is doing it.

[bleak hazel]

this is what we invented good government for

[next delta]

Ah, clearly the boss move charm as it gives you Legendary Resistance

[buoyant summit]

Misc... I ask you to think on what real world experiences can lead to a feeling of unfamiliarity with everything around you, feeling unmoored and from a reality that no longer exists

Gets are, literally

refugees

[nova yew]

I like gets

I like gets a lot

[velvet raft]

Refugees from nothing

[south horizon]

I am neutral on Gets

i have an idea for two

[buoyant summit]

From places and with memories that are painfully real to them

[south horizon]

but i wanna see there 3e mechanicz

and also

[nova yew]

Goldilocks would eat your porridge

[velvet raft]

A get's childhood home is a soundstage in the basement of Heaven Oramus

[south horizon]

see if rhey lean into Oramus BS

[nova yew]

;-;

[bleak hazel]

I don't think you want to extend this analogy given their entire powerset is "I overwrite existing reality and replace it with places I remember existing"

[buoyant summit]

That's

Fair

Ultimately

Yeah

[nova yew]

There’s something interesting to it

[buoyant summit]

If that is their powerset then

Um

Yikes!

Yikes, Onyx Path!

[nova yew]

It’s kinda awesome

[buoyant summit]

What The Fuck!

[next delta]

Are Gets from a necessarily better world? Or just different or perhaps only better from a narrow view?

[south horizon]

Yeah, Gets are living paradoxea

[velvet raft]

I would like the War On Heaven to basically be Rakan and three other dudes being the Brim Hats from Witch Hat Atelier

[nova yew]

This is actuals

And I love actuals

This is awesome

Genuinely????

This is so fucking cool to me

[south horizon]

Like that isn't an "Yikes onyx path" bit

They are a thing that never was

and was never meant to be

[nova yew]

Maybe I’m too moranpilled but this is kinda fucking awesome

[south horizon]

that wants to be

[nova yew]

To me

[bleak hazel]

yes, that's their powerset

[velvet raft]

They're not from any world, much less a better world

[south horizon]

They were sealed away for a reason

Thanks Rakan

[velvet raft]

They're a dream that dreams itself

[bleak hazel]

it's quite interesting and I don't mind it but I also think they should innately go fuck themselves on a philosophical level for being more solipsistic than the fucking Infernals

[south horizon]

lol

[velvet raft]

But we'll see how they work out

[nova yew]

Genuinely excited for their mechanics

Genuinely honestly and truly

[velvet raft]

They will be the first truly 100% new splat

[nova yew]

And at this point I’m half loving them out of spite considering the treatment I see in here for them ;-;

[south horizon]

personally, i liked them better whebnthebfocus was kn weird alchemy

[velvet raft]

I guess sorta Exigents

I do like weird alchemy

[south horizon]

The fake person idea i need to be sold on

Liminals

[next delta]

People seemed a bit more positive about Infernals after they came out than that were before? So hopefully that happens with Gets too

[lament owl]

One of my big touchstonesfor gets is Superboy Prime

[south horizon]

aee something i wanna like, for the codependence angle

but man

Ess fuckin

made rhat such a non factor

[tulip folio]

We gotta kill the Lostbelts Gets

[south horizon]

that it bimmed me out for their 3e take

[nova yew]

I’m hyped!!!!!

They seem neat

[lament owl]

I think all the "new exalted types" get improved a lot once they have a Book With Actual Lore

[velvet raft]

I was very worried about Infernals and some of those worries were validated! But overall I have baeen extremely pleased.

[nova yew]

They’re like Nobilis actuals but for exalted

[bleak hazel]

right now we have very little on Gets beyond Essence, which had a terrible mechanical representation of them, and a bunch of fucking awful lore from Core because it's all "better Sids, war on heaven"

[nova yew]

What’s not to love

[south horizon]

Infernals were always gonna be teicky

and honestly

[next delta]

I think they seem neat too, but I get why Misc is annoyed

[south horizon]

what convo i saw

was a lot better than i expected

[velvet raft]

The thing is that people who liked infernals, like me, liked them a lot

[south horizon]

though if i see "Infernals lack withering boosters" again

i'm gonna kermit

[velvet raft]

And for some very strange and complicated reasons

[south horizon]

ye

[buoyant summit]

I like Infernals but I could never play one

[south horizon]

Infernals were very much a

[bleak hazel]

I don't think there's any concievable version of Gets that stops me considering them a waste of breath and page space, but they can definitely go from "these suck" to "neat"

[buoyant summit]

Like even when I was gushing about my Azimuth idea in here

[south horizon]

"Do whatever you want" splat

[buoyant summit]

She's a villain

Which

No shit

But like

[tulip folio]

Some bits of Infernals are...not done well...but overall they did a good job.

[south horizon]

and thus people have very different ideas about what makes them.work

[next delta]

Are Infernals the last of the "original" exalted splats?

[buoyant summit]

I could not play her and have fun cuz she'd be so overwhelmingly depressing and mean

to inhabit

[south horizon]

Ye

[fierce star]

Yeah, it's all ex3 originals from here

[south horizon]

After thisnit's jist gets and liminals

[bleak hazel]

I also didn't think Exalted needed any more exalt types so Gets and Liminals are fighting uphill for my affections anyway

[south horizon]

Liminals are technically

[bleak hazel]

they're kind of redundant

[south horizon]

not a 3e original.i think

it was a like, pseudo idea

in 2e

hinted at in some bits

[tulip folio]

Well, for Full Exalts. 2e has a chunk of legally not exalts.

[fierce star]

Liminals are a 3e original, they did not exist in 2e except at a vague--and still present--nod that the soulsteel caste of alchemicals were prototypes for something, and whatever that was was not abyssals

[next delta]

I think the devs mostly agree since they aren't giving Gets (or Liminals I assume) full releases

Re: not being needed

[south horizon]

i doubt we'll get any of those

[tulip folio]

Like Dragon Kings and Raksha and Enlightened Jadeborn who are technically not exalted but are cool.

[south horizon]

that isnkinda up innthe air atm

[fierce star]

as of ex3 what that was is presumably whatever nebiru's true exalts were going to be before he got imprisoned, but

that's all conjecture

[south horizon]

fair

[velvet raft]

Being an infernal is about being a loser who got promoted by the loser gods to rock star celebrity Kim Kardashian-alike of the loser kingdom because reality television hasn't been invented yet. Also, many of your powers work best when you act like a saturday morning cartoon villain.

[south horizon]

yeah Infernals do not have to be villains

same as abyssals

hell, an infernal.has an easier time bein a good guy than abyssals do

[velvet raft]

Abyssals are Assigned Goth At Exaltation

Infernals just have a lot of bad-guy powers

[buoyant summit]

Yes but even as I made her

[next delta]

It also partially depends on the charm tree

[buoyant summit]

She's Millicent lost in the sauce

[velvet raft]

Yep

Infernal Investigation is uh

[south horizon]

i'm sure

someone

[next delta]

The War stuff is pretty mean for example

[bleak hazel]

"assigned anarchist rage at exaltation" leaves me cold both for Lunars and Infernals because I love a good institution, but luckily it's easier to play them in other ways

[south horizon]

can make a good guy Socializw primordial

:^)

[velvet raft]

Infernal Investigation is about turning into a horrible caricature

[south horizon]

Those Golden Years sure do be Tarnished

[next delta]

Performance being the most joyous because of Yozi's love of dancing is pretty great though

[buoyant summit]

You would fucking hate the way I make Sids, Misc

XD

[velvet raft]

Linguistics is really funny

[bleak hazel]

yeah, all my friends are anarchists, I am used to it

[lament owl]

Ok so
I feel like a Completly new Exalt would need a book more than a preexisting one????

[buoyant summit]

Both my currently extant Sids think the Bureau is On Some Bullshit and ineffective cuz of All Of This Institution

[south horizon]

I only have one Lunar and his grand motivatioj is ro kill Luna

[fierce star]

This is why I pull forward the ex2 fluff about the Designated Drive For Lunars being 'urge to survive at all costs', not 'BEING REAL FUCKING ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING'

[buoyant summit]

lmao what the fuck Lady????

XD

[south horizon]

because when he exalted, Luna called him a weak bitch for letting his friends die

[buoyant summit]

That seems

Out of text, for Luna

[south horizon]

not really

[buoyant summit]

Like

[next delta]

Eh. I think a big part of not having to have a lot of details about a part of Creation (or another realm)?

[buoyant summit]

I can see her doing it

[south horizon]

Luna is not nicw

[bleak hazel]

I like trying to govern things via big complicated social structures and I am very willing to assume the best of fictional bureaucracies because they are literally never ever depicted as even slightly reasonable

[south horizon]

and also what she liked about the character

[fierce star]

luna is a bit of a bitch like that tbh, I could see them doing that

[buoyant summit]

But she wouldn't just say that to someone she picked

[south horizon]

was his rage

[lament owl]

like again
I am just getting into this game now

but if you don't have a big backlog of vibes and lore to draw on from previous editions, wouldn't it be important to like, establish some of that now

[south horizon]

Yes she would

she was trying to ragebait him

[bleak hazel]

Yu-Shan has a lot of realistic dynfunction but nobody is ever coming from the perspective of "how would I do it better" when they write a cartoon office space situation

[buoyant summit]

Lady I'm saying she's smarter than that

[south horizon]

she is

she doesn't need to be in this instant

also

[velvet raft]

This is why I love the inclusion of the Bureau of Seasons

[south horizon]

paraphrasing

[buoyant summit]

fair

[fierce star]

Luna is quite smart but that just means he wants this person really mad at her for a reason, y'know?

[buoyant summit]

I feel like I'd find this more believable if it was meant

Yeah

[next delta]

🤔 what work is fiction (bonus points for RPG) puts bureaucracies in the best light?

[buoyant summit]

She's not pulling an Athena from Epic and calling Odysseus a bitch for letting his friends die for his foolishness

[bleak hazel]

one of the only things I think the 3e Sid book lacked other than a map of Yu-Shan is a serious philosphical case for why the Bureau does what it does

[buoyant summit]

She's doing something

[nova yew]

I love the bureau of seasons

[south horizon]

Yeah, the reason is becaise his rage is what drew her to him

[bleak hazel]

it just kind of skips all of that and goes "yeah it's kinda important but you can blow them off if you like"

[buoyant summit]

Okay so she literally just Wants Him Unreasonably Fuckass Mad

[tulip folio]

Step 1 on how I'd do it better: No Divine Crackhouse in the middle of heaven.

is immediately murdered by gods

[bleak hazel]

sorry, you made like 2-3 splats that want the Bureau gone, why am I working for it is kind of important

[south horizon]

This lunar is a bundle of rage that drives him.to great action

[buoyant summit]

That I can believe quite well

[south horizon]

Anasi is funny to play

because he's a bit of an anti-lunar lunar for a number of reasons

[velvet raft]

Yeah, they don't really address that while destiny is a political agenda, it is an earnest one

[fierce star]

So the thing here is that, like... you have to understand, part of this is that ex2 was a book mill, but there was a LOT of exalted books. People who like alchemicals and infernals have been waiting literally almost a decadedecade to play their favorite splat.

[next delta]

the ones that want it gone is just sour grapes

[south horizon]

a big one being that he hates all Gods

as he grew up in a Cult to the Pale.Mistress

[buoyant summit]

I

[south horizon]

who is one of the patron deities if An teng

and sucks

[next delta]

Oh, I guess Alchemicals are relatively positive on the bureaucracy side of things?

[south horizon]

a lot

[buoyant summit]

don't know that I agree that everyone who thinks the Bureau is overstepping are

sour grapes

[velvet raft]

I think the strikethrough indicated jokiness

[bleak hazel]

I genuinely think that the SCP foundation is one of the better candidates here despite being generally amoral and evil as fuck because they actually accomplish their primary task and aren't default-incompetent

[buoyant summit]

Chejop is in fact a piece of shit XD

[bleak hazel]

I still think a lot of it is sour grapes

[fierce star]

Chejop's just a tired old man who has a job to do, tbh

which, big mood

I've been there

[bleak hazel]

but it is also important to note that The Bureau is not the same as The Bronze or The Gold

[buoyant summit]

And he in many ways, through the Bronze, has morphed the Bureau into what it is

[prisma sun]

I think E3 Chejop isn't even that much of a piece of shit

[bleak hazel]

they are different political factions who have greater or lesser influence in setting destiny policy in different bits of heaven but they are not the whole agenda

[tulip folio]

I think they'd like the concept but hate the implementation.

[prisma sun]

considering his main sin is the Usurpation and even the Unconquered Sun agrees "yeah the Solars needed that"

[buoyant summit]

E2 and earlier Ketchup is worse?

[bleak hazel]

see: the Golds having a lot of influence over the Eastern destinies

2e sids were all stupid and evil and bad at their jobs

[buoyant summit]

Bruh

[bleak hazel]

3e chejop has actual game

[fierce star]

ex2 was not a good edition to be anyone but a solaroid

[buoyant summit]

Okay as part of a broader trend that's dumb

fair enough

[bleak hazel]

chejop existed to be rolled over by solaroid PCs or die in a 1v1 against the Scarlet Empress

[south horizon]

I don't see what makws Chejop in particular a PoS besides being a conservative old man

[bleak hazel]

despite being an E10 supermegamartialartist back then due to the absence of Anys Syn

[south horizon]

like if nothjng else

[buoyant summit]

cocks head while looking at the Shogunate and the Realm

Like

[bleak hazel]

he's not even that conservative

[velvet raft]

Tilda Moose has some interesting stuff about how the Foundation's willingness to bureaucratize the supernatural and bind it with steel beams and concrete and rebar is itself a source of power that actual wizards are simply unable to tap

[buoyant summit]

Not solely his fault

[bleak hazel]

dude is fucking Lenin

[south horizon]

he actually sticla to his values

[fierce star]

well, Anys Syn existed in ex2

but her whole thing was exploding DBs by trying to teach them SMAs

[buoyant summit]

But man did many groundwork things for both those polities

[south horizon]

of being entirely for and about his work

[tulip folio]

Anys Syn in 2e was also a Yozi agent

[buoyant summit]

I will admit

[bleak hazel]

Chejop was The Revolutionary back then, he was personally spearheading murdering the god-kings and toppling their thrones

[south horizon]

man lives in thw first rinkt dink office he had

[buoyant summit]

Chejob being A Principled Bastard gets very little from me

[bleak hazel]

and back then he was still old because that was only 20% of his life ago

[fierce star]

Barely counts, everyone who had mastered infernal monster style was, which was like half of the sidereals for some tupid reason

[velvet raft]

What I'll say for Chejop is that he's A Difficult Man, and I say that with scorn and with sympathy

[bleak hazel]

he is not exactly your classic conservative bureaucrat, put it that way

[south horizon]

I'm more sayimg that what makes him on particularly a bastard as opposed.to.just

[velvet raft]

Chejop is the boss from The Devil Wears Prada

[buoyant summit]

Oh I don't think he is

[south horizon]

an old man

[buoyant summit]

I still think he should get the fuck out of the waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy

[fierce star]

also like the shogunate and the dragonbooded realm aren't great by any means, but liiiiike...

[bleak hazel]

like, he has a very particular agenda and will expound the benefits of it at length because he personally kicked 300 Emperors of Mankind to death because they were doing too much 40k shit

[south horizon]

Tbf, he prob would but

there are no good options to replace him

[buoyant summit]

In his estimation

[velvet raft]

And like so many sids, his fundamental problem is hubris

[south horizon]

No i mean

politically

[limpid badge]

In truth.

[fierce star]

honestly in more than just his estimation

[velvet raft]

What is most arguable is that this is actually necessarily a bad thing

[bleak hazel]

chejop 3e version seems more old, tired and trying to set things up for when he's gone honestly

he was more of a zealot before

[velvet raft]

Like sure, Chejop is LBJ, he can get things done

He's also LBJ

[south horizon]

ye

[fierce star]

like, going by raw competency, it's hard to be Essence Yes Millenia Old Sidereal. He wants to retire but can't but as soon as he finds someone who could hold heaven together he'd be out, I think

[bleak hazel]

Chejop is on the list of people in Exalted who have big obvious poltical agendas and are also Him, right

[fierce star]

the problem is you need someone who can hold heaven together, and lacking raw competency, you need someone with the connections and attitude to do so

[bleak hazel]

like, even with the worst possible interpretation of his morals he's like Ligier or Cathak Cainan in that he got where he was by being very competent and stacking the bodies of legendary megabadasses to get his way

[tulip folio]

Oh wow, as an Australian i am now filled with unceasing hatred for him. Topple heaven! Reclamation Forever!

[south horizon]

Like my view of chejop is that he'sd def get out if not for the fact that as things are atm

[tulip folio]

😛

[bleak hazel]

and that's honestly a better fictional bureaucrat than 99% of the rest

[south horizon]

shit is hittingnthe fan

[velvet raft]

He's an autocrat with boundless cynicism, the best of intentions, and like most sids: a vastly overinflated capacity for hubris

[south horizon]

ye

all.sids think.rhey know best

it came free with the exaltation

[velvet raft]

He thinks the way he has done things is the only way to do things

[fierce star]

*all exalts

[south horizon]

Sids especially

[fierce star]

show me a humble exalt and I'll show you a liar

[prisma sun]

Chejop isn't an autocrat

[south horizon]

alao yeah

[prisma sun]

He isn't ruling by any means

[south horizon]

Chejop is like

[bleak hazel]

I will be honest, I do not think any faction other than maybe 1d6 of the Golds have a Better Way right now, so I am by default surprisingly pro-bronze

[velvet raft]

Autocrat in the same sense that LBJ was an autocrat, to clarify

He can herd the cats

[bleak hazel]

more FDR, honestly

[velvet raft]

And he has made the cat-herding his exclusive job

[buoyant summit]

hmmmm who does this sound like in another media property I think most people in this chat have all read

[velvet raft]

He functions on the assumption that there must be one singular cat-herder

[tulip folio]

He's Sir Humphrey Appleby.

[south horizon]

Creation has a lot of cats

and not a lot of herders, but ye

[bleak hazel]

there was one previous cat-herder but she was an autocrat

and has also fucked off to nowhere

[tulip folio]

I'm likely the only one here who's watched Yes Minister

[velvet raft]

And this is what is most questionable about his belief system

[south horizon]

he took a lot on himself

[bleak hazel]

Iki you are in a chat with me

[next delta]

Unfortunately for Creation, exalts are of the Greek concept of hero and not the (early?) comic book style of hero

[bleak hazel]

sadly we don't have a list of Creation newspapers to do the Yes Minister bit with

[south horizon]

It also does not help that the vureau is

[buoyant summit]

I'm seeing a lot of similarities in arguments for Chejop and arguments Solomon David makes for his own primacy and lack of letting go

Is my point

Now

[south horizon]

very hamstrung in it's ability to actually.make.change

[buoyant summit]

The metaphor is not perfect

[south horizon]

due to arcane fate

[velvet raft]

I think that's a fair comparison in some ways

[buoyant summit]

Chejop is not an ironfisted literal autocrat

But he is Old, Hubristic, And Knows What Is Best

[velvet raft]

Obviously Chejop explodes fewer peoples' heads

And responsible

[bleak hazel]

K6BD, admittedly, is one of the worst offenders in terms of All Institutions Are Evil because it's basically portraying the First Age

like, in Exalted doing an incubus and showing up with a few thousand warships is actually beneficial

[south horizon]

See, i think in my read, the important detail.is that Chejop does not actually believe he cam solve everything

[prisma sun]

I don't think that's even particularly true, since ALL of the Sids were in on his plan.

[bleak hazel]

in k6bd it gets you wrecked as a warmup

[buoyant summit]

Misc, eternally rueing the fact most of his friends are anarchists

[south horizon]

he knows there has to be a better way

[buoyant summit]

Misc if it makes you feel better my partner is a statist who has actually like

mellowed me out

<XD

[bleak hazel]

yes, but it's not like k6bd is trying to put forward a serious case for anarchist government

[south horizon]

Salami man fully believes that without him, everything would fall.into chaos

[velvet raft]

Chejop made this world, or at least led those who made it and continues to lead them in large part, and it would be irresponsible of him to just stop

[bleak hazel]

there are six random god-kings who all have to be a different kind of fuckup to justify the plot

[south horizon]

Chejop is.juat both too uswd to hisnjob

and also worried about thenpolirics

[bleak hazel]

it is basically structurally impossible for anyone to be a good king in that series because it would deprive us of the punching

[velvet raft]

And that is his problem

[south horizon]

necauae heaven is a viper'a nest

[buoyant summit]

It

Is also impossible to Be A Good King

[south horizon]

indeed

[bleak hazel]

ok, replace king with any other form of running things

it is not a series about Good Government

[velvet raft]

And that's sorta where I am with Ketchup

[fierce star]

I think it's impossible to be a perfect king, especially forever

[buoyant summit]

god that 'several people are typing...' made me shit myself mentally

[fierce star]

but I htink one can be a good king for a time

[buoyant summit]

<XD

[south horizon]

But i think a very important.bit to rememver is rhe BoD

[bleak hazel]

and unfortunately I am in the position of defending the concept of Good Government as a thing that can actually exist

[next delta]

Clearly he needs to discover democracy

[fierce star]

this is Exalted, after all

[south horizon]

is only one cog in the wheel.of heaven

[velvet raft]

I'm with you 100% misc

[south horizon]

amd ir'a not even the most influential one

[buoyant summit]

I think a good government can exist

[south horizon]

in no small part due to Arcane Fate

[fierce star]

shit I'm an anarchist and if you showed me a central-run government that kept the roads working, the people fed and happy and safe, and didn't overly infringe on their rights i"d probably sign up, I like functional roads and infrastructure

[velvet raft]

Ketchup wants to be a capital-g Good shadowy vizier who shapes the world from behind the scenes

[buoyant summit]

I think its precepts will be written in the blood of millions, its texts like a dangerous industry's safety manual

[bleak hazel]

also I would like to point out that Chejop Kejak started his ruling things career by kicking 300 solomon davids to death to stop the world dissolving into Literally K6BD

[prisma sun]

I'm sort of at that point where I do think that fundamentally anarchism cannot exist for any extended period of time

[bleak hazel]

so at the very least he probably agrees with you

[buoyant summit]

It cannot

[bleak hazel]

Chejop is not the kind of person who is unaware of what he is

[fierce star]

yeah, agreed there msic

[buoyant summit]

But a swing in its direction compared to looks around

[fierce star]

chejop is like, painfully self aware has always been my read

he has no delusions about his self

[next delta]

Getting to good (heavenly) government in Exalted seems really hard. The people at the top aren't accountable to anyone and spend most of their time playing the most addictive gatcha game they has ever existed

[south horizon]

like the vig issue with Sids

[limpid badge]

the marxists love a good infrastructure and they are my friends for this

[south horizon]

is thatnthey're overworked, under funded

and everyone who knew how to get shit done is dead or on the waynout

[bleak hazel]

I'll be honest, 3e is balanced enough that I'd consider running an Usurpation game if I wanted a straight up slay-the-tyrant romp with added spy games

just use the abyssal book with the black eyeshadow wiped off for Solars

[fierce star]

overworked, underfunded, underappreciated and everyone forgets they exist

[tulip folio]

Alchemical Player: "Did i hear infrastructure?"

[south horizon]

mhmm

[fierce star]

shit they really are public service

[south horizon]

yeah

[prisma sun]

Chejop's only delusion is that he has to bury any possible idea that there was a better course of action.

[buoyant summit]

I actually will give Chejop that the Usurpation itself was necessary

[prisma sun]

Because no one could come up with one then and now it's so far gone that all it is a maddening exercise in hypotheticals

[bleak hazel]

Chejop's motivation was and probably still is "justify past sacrifices", which is the kind of open-ended thesis that I really like

[buoyant summit]

300 immortal, depraved god kings is like

Not Good

[velvet raft]

He's responsible. It's his responsibility. He has to make it worth it.

[buoyant summit]

I think the Shogunate and then the Realm, putting another variety of Exalted in the position of rulers

Was a stupid fucking move

But understandable

[south horizon]

I mean, tbfz rhat's on UCS

[buoyant summit]

UCS?

[velvet raft]

Chejop is right about absolutely everything if you accept all of his priors. My issue is that several of his priors are extremely questionable.

[bleak hazel]

I think it is important to note that that was the outcome of a 10000-way game of xanatos speed chess between a bunch of superpowered A-grade badasses

[south horizon]

Unconquered Sun

[buoyant summit]

God damn it Invictus

[next delta]

Surely if it was Sidereals in charge everything would have been fine

[south horizon]

He Gave the Exalted host the mandate to rule creatiom

[bleak hazel]

Chejop + Friends ended up there after the giant throwdown and the bipartite failure of negotiating with the Lunars

which we actually have some details of in Lunarbook

[buoyant summit]

Hmm I wonder why negotiating with the Lunars failed

[tulip folio]

It's kinda tricky to STOP exalts becoming rulers. Autocthonia works like hell to MOSTLY manage it.

[fierce star]

yeah in ex3 the sidereals were supposed tos tep in and rule creation but then the Mask broke

[next delta]

(tbh, I think exalted would naturally gain leadership positions in Creation)

[limpid badge]

The Unconquered Sun gave his Creation-Ruling Mandate to the Exalted! The Mandate of Heaven is Real. You can get it by kicking enough Ass

[south horizon]

and thatntook hell.conditions and a lot of wars

[buoyant summit]

Could it be you killed all their soul-bonded friends in front of them?

[bleak hazel]

yeah and they were right to do it

[buoyant summit]

They were

[south horizon]

I mean, that's part of it

[bleak hazel]

killing solars method very good charm

[south horizon]

but also

thebLunars wanted to rule too

[buoyant summit]

I still do not expect a person whose husband I just shot, no matter how evil, to like me

[fierce star]

shit some of the Lunars were on the sidereals side, but the problem was, basically

paranoia

[limpid badge]

Bc sol got it from thieon at the end of the war

[south horizon]

also ye

[fierce star]

the lunars were worried they were next. THe sidereals were worried the lunars were going to kill them for their betrayal.

[south horizon]

trusting the entire exalt class of viziers

[fierce star]

people on both sides decided to attack first under the idea that 'if we kill them first we don't have to worry about it'

[south horizon]

whomjust vetrayed thwnlastbguys

and now can no longer be remembered?

hardvsell

[bleak hazel]

I admit one of the bits of 2e fluff I do generally bring forward is the list of examples of First Age Bullshit that started to inspire the Usurpation because we have nothing for it in 3e other than the solar that made living lawn art out of a woman and was rewarded with universal artistic acclaim

which makes me conclude that 3e First Age Solars were on some Dark Eldar shit

[buoyant summit]

lmao yeah

[south horizon]

I mean

[fierce star]

just make Desus canon again, that's all you really need

[south horizon]

infernals states that Infernaism.started

as a first age fad

[tulip folio]

Please do not make Desus canon

[south horizon]

which is so fuckin funny to me

[buoyant summit]

I suppose it kind of is the point of the game that The World Is Fucked Because Demigods With the Mandate of Heaven Exist, Have Fun Being One of Them

[bleak hazel]

fuck I forgot her name, who was the radical horizontalist sorceror that put the fear of god into everyone

Salina

[fierce star]

Salina, yeah

[bleak hazel]

also a good reason to do some usurping even if she was Really Nice

arguably Too Nice

[fierce star]

the Salinan Working, etc

[buoyant summit]

What'd she do?

[fierce star]

Oh! The Hierophant

[bleak hazel]

Salina did a great working to make sure that anyone who wanted to become a sorceror had the opportunity to learn

[velvet raft]

And that I think is critical to the whole setting: people keep knocking each other over to get the big hat in one form or another, but there's a lack of questions being posed as to the existence of the hat itself

[buoyant summit]

eheh

ehehehehehe

[bleak hazel]

but her actual goal was "give everyone the highest grade of sorcery possible, because if everyone is a supermagician the world will be a utopia because of All This Power"

[buoyant summit]

https://tenor.com/view/veep-wtf-nervous-laugh-what-the-fuck-nervous-laughter-gif-13153915

[nova yew]

Transcendental genshin was the peak of game design

[bleak hazel]

this scared the fuck out of everyone, including CK

and all the other Solars

[buoyant summit]

So

Like

[fierce star]

she was also a great bureaucrat

[bleak hazel]

a world of millions of solar circle sorcerors doesn't stay a world for very long

[buoyant summit]

Is she why people can do sorcery????

[bleak hazel]

no

[south horizon]

Not in 2e

[bleak hazel]

but she did make sure it couldn't be made secret

[south horizon]

i mean 3e

[fierce star]

because her first working was literally passed in a bit of bureaucracy that no one else bothered to read through because it was otherwise completely normal boilerplate boirng bullshit

[buoyant summit]

Ahhhhh

[velvet raft]

The Salinan working guarantees that sorcery can always be learned

[limpid badge]

at a certain point you must kind of accept the Mythopeotical nature of what’s up with Exalted and roll with the cards ya got

[buoyant summit]

HMMMMM, A METAPHOR WAS HERE

'How can you tell?'

[limpid badge]

The Mandate Of Heaven Real

[bleak hazel]

but she was the example of Maximum Compassion Solar, and why that could be seriously fucked up

[buoyant summit]

AMERICAN AUTHORS WRITING ABOUT LEGISLATION

[bleak hazel]

because her program was at least 50% Legalise Nuclear Bombs

[south horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/pig-pigs-piggy-fatty-oink-gif-13602824315590731710

[buoyant summit]

SHADOW WIZARD MONEY GANG

[fierce star]

WE LOVE CASTIN' SPELLS

[buoyant summit]

?

[bleak hazel]

I love Salina

[tulip folio]

Libertarian Solar

[velvet raft]

The rudiments of learning sorcery are written into nature itself

[bleak hazel]

great character

[prisma sun]

https://i.imgur.com/SjIbYjC.png

[south horizon]

But yeah, Exalted as a whole.isnjist

[prisma sun]

the wolf city is funny

[south horizon]

very messy dominos

all.the way down

[fierce star]

but yeah basically if you have the ability to learn sorcery, you get thechance to learn it... but you may not understand waht the world is trying to tell you regardless

[velvet raft]

If someone burned every book of sorcery in the world, someone else would learn it by watching leaves on a stream

[buoyant summit]

Wait the Uskwood wolves are Immaculates?

[velvet raft]

THAT is the Salinan working

[bleak hazel]

yeah, I am very willing to defend the Bureau of Destiny as a giant messy set of compromises and good-enough on the fly improvisiation that is nonetheless probably better than anything anyone else has going right now

[buoyant summit]

Unironically Based

Very Frieren-Coded

[velvet raft]

The law that says the knowledge is always out there

[buoyant summit]

Well Done Salina

[bleak hazel]

or more importantly, anything anyone else could set up without getting fucking chokeslammed by 500 competitors

[south horizon]

Ominous Deathlord shaped elephant

[bleak hazel]

the Bureau is very capable of riding the waves of everything going pear-shaped because it can write destinies going any which way, it's not required to support the Realm

[south horizon]

The realm just seemed the best option at the time

which ya know

double apocalypses

[velvet raft]

Yep, it ultimately sets Heaven's political agenda for the future of the mortal world

[buoyant summit]

Then why the fuck does it still do that!!!! (I know why, in all seriousness)

[bleak hazel]

there are probably a whole bunch of destinies written that are basically "Lunar Dominion XYZ continues bing chilling" because nobody is likely to knock that lunar off his chair anytime soon and so it was the most plausible decent option

[south horizon]

very stressful

[bleak hazel]

if you write a destiny that doesn't happen then things go pear shaped

so they are limited by plausibility

and plausibility keeps getting slapped senseless by thousands of warring godmen

[south horizon]

not to mention, again

[buoyant summit]

Misc you occasionally just

dip into memes I would never expect you to

[south horizon]

massive loss in knowledge

[bleak hazel]

which one was it this time?

[south horizon]

because a shit ton of sids and foda died

[buoyant summit]

Fucking 'bing chilling'

[south horizon]

due to the balorian crusade and thenGreat Contagion

[fierce star]

wasn't the crusade during hte contagion

[south horizon]

yes

[bleak hazel]

I had many Chinese friends at university and they found it very funny

[buoyant summit]

lol

[fierce star]

ok, wasn't sure if that changed or not

[next delta]

Part of the issue with the Heavenly Bureaucracy is that the Exalted default setting is at like, a high level of decay so every institution kind of sucks. And this makes sense as a "the players get to better do stuff!" but it's not great if you like institutions, ha

[fierce star]

as someone who has done allt hree editions over the years, sometimes the fluff gets mixed up in my head

[bleak hazel]

same reason I have a surprisingly in-depth knowledge of LA electronic music, or at least I did

[buoyant summit]

I actually learned the meme from a German-Chinese youtuber who lost his shit about it

[buoyant summit]

That Feels Wrong

That Is My Domain

[tulip folio]

The contagion accidentally stopped the fey winning the Balorian Crusade iir

[buoyant summit]

Begone, Interloper

/j

[bleak hazel]

look Glitch Mob remains S tier even if their most recent album was kind of a dud

[buoyant summit]

xD

[south horizon]

Inlike the big thatnthe great cintagion can't happen again

because everyone alive tonday is pseudo immunizied

because, ya know

[next delta]

I thought the Crusade was stopped by the Scarlet Empress reactivating the super gun? I don't know why the great contagion stopped

[south horizon]

they survived

[bleak hazel]

Exalted is genuinely the most pro-institution game out there honestly, because it at least gestures to the idea that they can be built well or badly

you have a Bureaucracy tree

they matter

[south horizon]

Yeah

[buoyant summit]

You do have a literal skill for 'create systems of societal organization'

[south horizon]

people.just

[buoyant summit]

Which I enjoy

[south horizon]

ignore it

[fierce star]

wyld mutations

[bleak hazel]

in D&D or whatever they don't, everyone's just a warring demigod of some kind

even in Lancer they're just backdrop

[buoyant summit]

Funnily enough, Lady, given my anarchist leanings

[south horizon]

or in the case of 3e, don't build a system for it

[buoyant summit]

My characters have a surprising propensity for bureaucracy

[south horizon]

I mean hey

[buoyant summit]

Now admittedly

[south horizon]

gotta understand what ur fighting against

[velvet raft]

On a completely different topic: if using PAOC Form to mix Emerald Gyre of Aeons and Crystal Chameleon forms, what third form would people drop in there?

[fierce star]

literally wyld mutations, the crusade caused surviving mortals to mutate a resistance to the contagion

[buoyant summit]

One of those is specialized in dismantling bureaucracies from the inside

But the other is like

Genuinely doing Paperwork™

[next delta]

Wait, really? lol

[south horizon]

My one sid idea

[lament owl]

Puppydog city is real….

[south horizon]

is an ending caste who basicallt is only here fir the benefits

[fierce star]

yep, if balor hadn't done his thing then creation would have just outright died

[lament owl]

(Referencing a meme)

[bleak hazel]

something that's just a bunch of raw stats, I think

if I had infinite XP, a big 1kblades form

[buoyant summit]

Oh hey guess what splat and caste my System Dismantler is? <XD

[next delta]

I guess a lot of the fairfolk don't actually want Creation to die even as they hate it

[limpid badge]

im waiting to build my Infernal Babygirl out to her Bureaucracy skills. Focusing on the War first

[velvet raft]

... assuming no thousand blades, actually maybe snake of all things?

It comes with soak, and it penalizes enemy attacks instead of applying a defense bonus

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah snake's a really good pick

close to the bottom of the tree too

so you don't need tons of it

snag it, put most of your actual XP into CCham and enjoy Armour-Piercing Fang Strike and that really nice reflexive clash in the meantime

don't bother going for the form enhancer since you don't want to spend the extra juice

remind me, what are Snake's form weapons again?

[velvet raft]

Hook sword and seven-section staff

It's a shockingly good style

Also, question: if using three non-PAOC form charms, does the compatibility clause still extend to PAOC charms?

[buoyant summit]

You are, strictly speaking, in a PAOC form

[velvet raft]

Yeah

[bleak hazel]

yeah you still get that

[velvet raft]

Cool

[bleak hazel]

using combat ability forms requires Enlightenment in that combat ability but otherwise its very flexible

also now considering Snake + Melee + CMOS

with a seven-section staff

I think that might be a real bastard build

reflexive clash gang

[buoyant summit]

Perhaps a strange question; would you let a character use White Reaper with a falx daiklave?

Neeeevermind

[bleak hazel]

as long as you're not gaming compatibility rules, sure

just counts-as it as a form weapon

I've had a leaf-bladed spear counts-as staff because I just use English quarterstaff guards and flavour it with a lot of unnecessary spinning

[velvet raft]

Could work in Seven Star Alignment

[wise ocean]

this has reminded me that I should inform you part of Io's plot with the nexus incident is to Fallen London a few city districts directly into Hell

[bleak hazel]

I don't think that guy's going to have XP free for sorcery, honestly

but I guess CMOS is quite chill compared to PAOC

[prisma sun]

Misc you gotta make a guy

[limpid badge]

Io confirmed for Bat

[bleak hazel]

I need to decide which guy to make

also the vocabulary of War Infernal has now been irrevocably set by me reading an ancient and terrible isekai

[buoyant summit]

Misc not guysmaxxing smh

[bleak hazel]

(John Carter, A Princess of Mars)

[buoyant summit]

Are there any MAs that inspire allies?

Monkey distracts people for allies

[velvet raft]

Throne Shadow

[buoyant summit]

But This Character is a Shit Liar

[bleak hazel]

Barsoom may have been pretty mediocre in terms of actual plots but it has some real nice prose

[buoyant summit]

doubtful

xD

[bleak hazel]

I think Swaying Grass Dance might have some stuff?

[velvet raft]

This is the way

[bleak hazel]

oh

Silver-Voiced Nightingale

that's got the most straightforward buff set

[buoyant summit]

I was looking at Nightingale!

Oh this is awesome

[tulip folio]

Swaying Grass is fun. I want to make a character that uses it some time.

[bleak hazel]

it's got some really nice tech

especially further in

it's a core part of why Anys Syn is just unambushable

[tulip folio]

I think it's on my unweaving sid martial art list

[bleak hazel]

she is ready to engage in a dance-off at 0 seconds notice

[tulip folio]

As it's a knife style

[buoyant summit]

I think this Lunar is gonna do like

Nightingale

and then Both Senses of Smashing Charms

[wise ocean]

True!
I need to decide whether I'm allowed to give her two more merit dots for properly functional wings, I fret every single time I think of adding something above chargen that has mechanical impact

[bleak hazel]

I forget, is artifact kiai mastery or neutral

[buoyant summit]

Mastery

Which Lunars don't have but it's whatever

The fantasy of hot singing bear lady martial artist calls to me XD

[bleak hazel]

good you didn't go for Swaying Grass Dance then

because dancing bears are famed for not being good at it

[buoyant summit]

lmao

[fierce star]

man I wish DPC didn't suck for infernals

[buoyant summit]

I'm debating whether she's otherwise a brawler or if I do give her a weapon

[prisma sun]

Lunars don't specialize

Go nuts

[buoyant summit]

Fair

I meant more like

[next delta]

Clearly the solution to needing mastery for artifact kiai but not having it is to make an artifact that is like the device from the 80s dune movie

[bleak hazel]

yeah, it's sids that need to sweat the actual loadouts

[buoyant summit]

Do I Give Her Dots in Brawl or Melee

[prisma sun]

Do both

[bleak hazel]

Lunars use everything, everywhere, all the time

Solaroids pick one tree and go hard on it

[prisma sun]

Sids use everything everywhere all the time but in no way a mortal mind can comprehend

[bleak hazel]

there's also that charm in MFS that lets you copy all your brawl dots to melee + MA for cheap

[buoyant summit]

THE FUCK???

[bleak hazel]

Lunars!

not having dots in things is a problem for other exalt types

[prisma sun]

Lunars are funny and good

[bleak hazel]

their thematics bore me but I cannot deny they have the mechanical juice

[coral wraith]

Lunars are very versatile

[fierce star]

bring back the thousand rivers stream project

(only half a shitpost I miss the thousand rivers stream)

[velvet raft]

@bleak hazel I think my dream Unweaving Method build would be something like:

• Start with Ebon Shadow. Finish that up at Essence 3.
• Go into Crystal Chameleon. Possible to start it earlier, but don't take the form charm until Ebon Shadow is finished.
• Grab the first four charms of EGOA, and grab Orichalcum-Sheathing, Exalt Ways, and Demesne Emulation Practice from PAOC. Grab the first four CMOS charms and the soulfire shaper prereqs if possible.
• At Essence 4, finish Crystal Chameleon and grab EGOA Form. Pick up 1-3 snake charms, finish the opening of CMOS, take PAOC. If somehow you still have stuff left over, start grabbing Obsidian Shards and/or Citrine Poxes.
• Essence 5: take the PAOC Form, take the Snake form, finish Snake, keep doing other SMAs.

Ebon Shadow has a lot of juice and Seven Points of Weakness Strike has really funny synergy with Unweaving via its mastery effect.

[bleak hazel]

why Orichalculm Sheathing Stance? it's one of the least useful ones there

[velvet raft]

Two reasons: it's defensive, so it's not useless to us prior to PAOC form

And the "if you take no damage" effect has synergy with like four or five other effects of that type

[tulip folio]

I was looking at Ebon Shadow + Swaying Grass for mine.

[velvet raft]

Crystal Chameleon and Ebon Shadow both have damage reducers, Optimistic Security Practice exists, Shield of Mars exists

This idiot ends up more-or-less permanently hidden while at bonfire anima, self-buffing and shooting kung-fu laser beams at the same time.

There's a bit of an awkward phase in between getting EGOA form and PAOC form, since EGOA lets you flurry simple charms but Crystal Chameleon is necessary to do stealth at bonfire

So delaying Stepping Beyond Light (permanent bonfire, infinite anima costs) until after PAOC form might be reasonable

[lament owl]

I wonder if degraded liminals are gonna be a mechanically distinct mini splat like alchemical apostates

[prisma sun]

Any demons known for prognostication?

[fierce star]

like in general? because tomescu technically fit, but it's only for their deaths

[coral wraith]

They can foretell other stuff too, it's just Only Predicting Doom

[fierce star]

that's fair

[coral wraith]

Foretell the Future (10m, 1wp; Simple; One
scene; Essence 2): In Malfeas, the tomescu read the wind and listen to the whispers hidden behind ever- present songs, and know the Yozis’ wishes. In Creation, they do their best to guess, finding the former World-Makers’ thumbprints in hidden places. As long
as a summoner follows a tomescu’s predictions, she gains +4 bonus dice to relevant actions.

Natural Prognostication (1m; Reflexive; Simple;
Essence 1): Unbidden, the tomescu howls of misfortune doomed to be befall a target (often paranoid summoners). This is expressed as a one-sentence statement of something that may come to pass. If following a tomescu’s prediction helps a character avoid misfortune, she regains one Willpower point, loses one Limit if applicable, and forms a Minor Tie of trust to all tomescu (or strengthens an existing Tie by one step). Once per story.```

(great abilities btw)

[fierce star]

also do you ever just have a very particular, specific brainrot set in?

because I saw an image of a robot kitsune a bit ago and now i'm just going 'fox themed alchemical? robot shrine maiden? Jarish?' and microwaving it in my brain a bit (not reposting the inspiring art due to finding out later it was AI but the brainrot had already settled in)

[nova yew]

that sounds like a thing that they can do
just from what ive read

i just havent read a lot of them but like
that sounds like something they could do

[bleak hazel]

made the mechanically sensible decision to leave Rival's nonfavoured awareness at 4 and nonfavoured socialize at 3 because he doesn't want any more charms in either and as such just needs to top them off with dots, which is cheap in XP

unfortunately, training times

sentenced to three and a half months of etiquette books unless his Mentor helps with either

[coral wraith]

I need Professorial Mein to train your ass

God damn

[bleak hazel]

blame the Battles ability spread

[coral wraith]

That charm is looking better and better the more I stare at it

[bleak hazel]

both would just be Favoured if I didn't have to lug around Brawl and Archery

[prisma sun]

Mentors can be relied on to cast Professional Mein

[bleak hazel]

I didn't realise that one was just free lore backgrounds forever for 8xp

I assumed it had a prereq

might have to dip that on more guys

[coral wraith]

Free lore backgrounds, speeds up training, free minor ties, free additional info on read intentions/profile

Jacked charm

[fierce star]

You know, lore backgrounds are something I've never realy been like

comfortable establishing for a character.

How narrow do they need to be, verses how broad?

because it seems like trying to make General Nerd Guy That Knows A Lot About Everything is... I mean, you'd need a lot of lore backgrounds for that

if they're supposed to be narrow

I've seen it suggested they have tob e thigns like 'Nexus' Harbor Districts' or 'Gentian's Ancestor Cults'

[bleak hazel]

I think they can be broader than that, personally

but they're also cheap mechanically, so Sid Knowitall is able to summon new backgrounds for 1 more every time he sleeps and that represents that decently

[fierce star]

also, things you learn re-reading the core book, you need lore 3 or higher to introduce a fact

(but you can do so based on specialties in general, not just your lore background, I think? Or it might be specialities for the lore skill.)

[prisma sun]

top contender for the coolest infernal charm

https://i.imgur.com/MPRCyGV.png

FUCK

[marsh garden]

we do love making diviners bleed out the eyes and scream horrified portents

[sacred olive]

It's specialties in general, to my understanding

[fierce star]

so someone with a Melee specialty in Swords and lore 3+ can introduce facts about Swords, which makes sense to me