i would
#Exalted
marsh garden
limpid badge
well misc i am because im not a coward
bleak hazel
He's great though, looking forward to beating the shit out of him with Sidereal Martial Arts
marsh garden
hoptal...
wise ocean
okay so here's what you do
wise ocean
- get artifact crafting
- artifact skintight radiation suit
- appearance 5
- charisma investment
- up and at 'em tiger
limpid badge
hi ash, i know what im actually doing. wanna know what it is
wise ocean
I presume it is nefarious
limpid badge
Arablissa, The Starvling Queen - AZIMUTH CASTE
wise ocean
oh No
bleak hazel
Ligier is app 5, so it's at least quite easy to be hotter than the sun
marsh garden
okay so here's what you do
become an abyssal so you look like the sickly waifish anime girlthing/boything/thingthing on the cover of some sketchy doujin with paper-white skin and thin, delicate limbs, but you're actually immune to disease and have five stacks of corpse-body
south horizon
My abyssal is just short, quiet and fights like he doesn't have nerve endings
he does
he just ignores them
marsh garden
moral imperative to look either look THE EVIL SKELETON APPEARS or a classic 1600's author who retreated to their coastal villa and died of consumption
south horizon
nah
look like a carved marble staute so that you can horrify people when you fight by letting them cut chunks out of you
marsh garden
south horizon
burned alive and you still keep drudging forward
wise ocean
steepling my fingers together as I slide an index card across the table that says
PORCELAIN BJD EXALT [ ] INFERNAL [ ] ABYSSAL [ ] SIDEREAL
limpid badge
oh No
what if all her siblings Just Died. What If They All Died. What if a realm backed coup and a feeling that her family's ancestor-cult was worthless and drove her to diabolism. What if she summoned one of the Luminata... and the Beast that hunted it? What if her Chrysalis Grotesque clung to the stomach of that crocodillian ogre like a parasitic womb as it dragged itself back across Cecelyne, to lay itself at the feet of Ligier and beg his forgiveness for interrupting the coronation of one of his newest Prince?
marsh garden
steepling my fingers together as I slide an index card across the table that say...
LOL
bleak hazel
steepling my fingers together as I slide an index card across the table that say...
Abyssals have charms for this, they win the looking like a homunculus contest and the looking like a waif contest
lament owl
My abyssal is more on the “maiden dying of consumption(boy)” side of things
Except he has a tail
bleak hazel
Despite alchemicals actually being homunculi
wise ocean
Alchs are too autobot to be bjd in my mental vibe zone
marsh garden
beep boop
limpid badge
what if all her siblings Just Died. What If They All Died. What if a realm backe...
i am figuring how to make her Devil-Body just Her with a giant parasitic umbilical cord buried into her Ogriod Familiar (Dinner For Two)
wise ocean
i am figuring how to make her Devil-Body just Her with a giant parasitic umbilic...
tempted to stat it out as Dinner and then have arby just dangling from it on horrible flesh strings when it goes active and starts killing people
limpid badge
yes im adapting a lancer character and her horrible biomech is called Dinner For Two
velvet raft
Yeah I woke up
wise ocean
woman who is a vestigial limb / anglerfish lure
velvet raft
I should go back to sleep
marsh garden
I should go back to sleep
bleak hazel
I'm not sure sunboy has any penalty reduction so I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to beat him in a fight, but I then need to figure out how to not die to green sun wasting
Sid Excellency save me
wise ocean
surely you just rat style burn life meme your way through it as a sid
south horizon
I'm not sure sunboy has any penalty reduction so I'm pretty sure I can figure ou...
surviving his reflexive clash attacks
is prob the actual big issue
and his aoes
bleak hazel
Burn Life solves it but is also Simple so you can't really use that midfight
south horizon
god does he have aoes
"i notice you've managed to hit me 5 times
"so i hope you don't mind if i get a bit serious"
bleak hazel
Clashes are not really a problem because I'm going all out every strike so if he clashes me I pop Fateful Exchange and he hits the dirt
south horizon
nova yew
Yeah I woke up
i worry bout u
have a good night ❤️
buoyant summit
surely you just rat style burn life meme your way through it as a sid
one of my party members offered to eventually learn Citrine Poxes
mostly to give me diseases
bleak hazel
His mega flurry is the hard part since I can't crash him out of it like I can something like Invincible Fury of the Dawn
marsh garden
Clashes are not really a problem because I'm going all out every strike so if he...
does that uh. save you?
he looks like he has a fuckload of dice on those clashes
bleak hazel
Crane makes this very funny because there's every possibility the first phase of the fight is over in one round because we just keep hitting each other
south horizon
sids have a lot of funny tricks
south horizon
ye he is a pretty honest fight
the main thing is he has i frames
so getting past that is the other issue
bleak hazel
The iframes aren't a major problem when trying to solo
south horizon
you can't hit him with death by athousand cuts
tulip folio
Hell's most powerful fuckboi
marsh garden
every day i learn more and more that sids are apparently Unquestionably The Strongest Thing In 3E
bleak hazel
You're probably not hitting decisive more than 1/round without a magical flurry
south horizon
Not the strongest
marsh garden
"yeah i can brew a dude that 1v1s the E10"
south horizon
but they have a lot of ways to cheat
bleak hazel
Solars can kill him at chargen with stealth cheese if you play their charms RAW
Sids are not the strongest
wise ocean
every day i learn more and more that sids are apparently Unquestionably The Stro...
sids are incredibly strong if everything goes right if you assume dawns don't exist
limpid badge
Hell's most powerful fuckboi
aint that makarios
marsh garden
i've been told that solar charms are just every kind of broken, in every direction
south horizon
correct
wise ocean
yeah, there's dawns and then there's the entire rest of the system
limpid badge
the solar bones are sick. use golden calibration for a Better Time
marsh garden
golden calibration?
buoyant summit
one of the games I'm in has a Dawn as the sole person
chilly sluice
i've been told that solar charms are just every kind of broken, in every directi...
mostly only a few of them
but those ones are very broken
buoyant summit
Not In League With Hell
marsh garden
gotcha
buoyant summit
Which is very funny
tulip folio
the solar bones are sick. use golden calibration for a Better Time
Golden Calibration?
south horizon
And still have some issues
bleak hazel
1v1ing mega bosses with an E5 abyssal or infernal is also very doable but in boring ways where you just become immortal
tulip folio
Oh, it just got answered
marsh garden
i have no interest in ever playing a solar, but if i ever get another game with someone that does and doesn't know about it, i'll be sure to pass it on
south horizon
but that's just because the brewer wanted to stay honest
bleak hazel
Sids have to get creative, which I like
limpid badge
Golden Calibration?
marsh garden
1v1ing mega bosses with an E5 abyssal or infernal is also very doable but in bor...
ahhh, We Did A System Oopsie things?
buoyant summit
Sids have to get creative, which I like
Me, making the most uncreative combat sid in the entire fucking universe
south horizon
ahhh, We Did A System Oopsie things?
Abyssals is at least, not an oopsie
bleak hazel
Not even, you just eventually end up with megastats
wise ocean
1v1ing mega bosses with an E5 abyssal or infernal is also very doable but in bor...
yeah, I've built Graves out higher before and high-essence dusk vbos just comes out to you try to kill me. (pays 3m) you fail. you try to kill me. (pays 3m) you fail. you t-
south horizon
they're just made very similar to Solars
buoyant summit
Abyssals are great, I love them
bleak hazel
Check "aegis of invincible might" in Solar Resistance and you'll get what I mean
coral wraith
1v1ing mega bosses with an E5 abyssal or infernal is also very doable but in bor...
Grinning Mask with one combat charm:
buoyant summit
I love my Cynthia Erivo diplomat lady who ragebaits people in fights
bleak hazel
That's not a broken solar charm, it's just a big solar charm
marsh garden
oh huh i missed this passage on my first crb readthrough lol
south horizon
ye
coral wraith
wise ocean
yep, that's why ncs are so valuable
south horizon
so you only ever at most have 10 dice or 5 suxs added to any roll
unless you get some Non charm bonus
wise ocean
what NCS options do abyssals have?
the usual
bleak hazel
Nobody really has "non-charm success options", they're just what charms do when they are large dice tricks
marsh garden
the usual
i have played zero sessions of exalted in my life
you are going to have to elaborate
beyond "the usual" for a game i do not know any usuals of
bleak hazel
You should view double [number] and reroll effects as effectively more non-charm dice
marsh garden
i'm asking all of these questions, and hopefully not being too annoying in doing so, in preparation for my first session of the system and setting of my life, so i don't exactly know any standards yet
south horizon
no worries
most of this is stuff you don't have to like
have internalized
Exalted is a game with like, a bunch of tiny minutiae
buoyant summit
What kind of Person are you making topple?
south horizon
but the base system is very much just "bigger number will likely win, unless RNG says no"
buoyant summit
you're in an Aby game right?
marsh garden
yeah it was just. "the usual" was a negative amount of clarification
wise ocean
yeah, you kind of just walked into asking a question where the answer is well, a bunch of different but fairly rare tricks spread out across most charm trees
marsh garden
you're in an Aby game right?
i'm the abyssal in a game with an infernal, a lunar, and two sids lol
it's going to be uh
buoyant summit
l m a o
marsh garden
politically interesting
marsh garden
not as far as any of us know
buoyant summit
Then no, unless the ST pulls a fast one
south horizon
is the Lunar a Silver Pact member?
marsh garden
is the Lunar a Silver Pact member?
dunno, they're one of the other newbies to the system so i'm not sure they know what that is
i certainly don't
south horizon
ah, gotcha
buoyant summit
The Lunar is probably having a great time
south horizon
Silver Pact is basically the Lunar community
marsh garden
one of the sids is on sabbatical
marsh garden
the other sid has been stalking the lunar
south horizon
they're the opnes who provided guidance and support
marsh garden
who has...........................
south horizon
the other sid has been stalking the lunar
sounds about right
Lunars and Sids uh. . . have tensions
marsh garden
we'll say some interesting and radical opinions on the safety of using the Wyld
marsh garden
not sure, i'll ask
marsh garden
What kind of Person are you making topple?
to answer this question, i will give you
buoyant summit
I suppose they could be a Changing Moon as well, but Wyld-fuckery screams Ogres to me
south horizon
but yeah the basic gist of the Silver Pact is they're the ones who have been keeping the realm in check, headed by the few remaining first age era exalts around
marsh garden
(the iselsi is the infernal)
marsh garden
she has
buoyant summit
OH FUCK AN INFERNAL ISELSI ?
south horizon
L O L
marsh garden
infinite religious trauma
south horizon
yeah that checks out
marsh garden
about not deebing
limpid badge
oh wait hi @wise ocean remembered the funniest part of infernal arby
south horizon
but that character is not
limpid badge
infernal war rewards you for brutalizing your troops a little as a treat
so yes she is just going to messily devour some poor guy who wants to run away
buoyant summit
Oh topple
wise ocean
if I eat my troops a little they perform better <- delusional woman
buoyant summit
(the iselsi is the infernal)
Is either Sid an Endings?
buoyant summit
There's an Endings who's an Iselsi
buoyant summit
L M A O
marsh garden
(the veteran sid)
limpid badge
`if I eat my troops a little they perform better` <- delusional woman
woman who is correct
marsh garden
you gotta
south horizon
i love infernal war
south horizon
I love that infernals actually GET TO HAVE WAR CHARMS
south horizon
I'm also in an Infernals/Sids cross-splat
how's that going?
buoyant summit
I'm the wandering star who got picked up by the Infernals before the Bureau could find her
south horizon
of course
buoyant summit
I do not yet have paperwork
I have
Sibri as a two-dot mentor and Devil Prince Sword
And a Manse in Hell
marsh garden
servant kid who passion-murdered a noble failson and then got dismembered and executed
south horizon
noice
marsh garden
or, well, mutilated and executed
south horizon
as someone who has made their main abyssal have the Lover as a deathlord
excellent vibes
marsh garden
and had to be fetched after failing to die by hanging and killing everyone watching with his teeth
buoyant summit
So once Gem explodes I'm probably getting contacted by the Bureau
In the form of either Ludall himself or another Hell Convention member going 'heeeeyyyyyy, do you want a job where you go nowhere near Heaven in exchange for its resources?'
south horizon
My boi's intimacies(this is a 2e sheet because i'm in a 2e game but he was conceptualized for 3e)
Marked being his name
buoyant summit
Lintha
marsh garden
my touchstones are like, mithrun (dunmeshi), crona (soul eater), and violet evergarden
buoyant summit
Amazing
Is she a sad letter writer?
Please tell me she's in charge of Circle correspondence
south horizon
Marked's touchstones are Kaneki Ken from tokyo ghoul (Bane of my life, i love it so much, Sui Ishida get out of my head)
marsh garden
alas, he cannot read
chilly sluice
my touchstones are like, mithrun (dunmeshi), crona (soul eater), and violet ever...
I can see the throughline there
marsh garden
gabimaru is great
buoyant summit
alas, he cannot read
Noooooooo!!!!!
south horizon
gabimaru is great
i had never read the manga when i made marked
but man does he fit so well
my poor boi is so fucked up
also, because I am a commiter to the bit
buoyant summit
My Sid's main inspos are Arya Stark and the Bene Gesserit
south horizon
The Heartless Beast Marked In Blood, Bereft of Mercy, Blessed By The Void and Held in Rapture
this is his entire title
marsh garden
hehehe
buoyant summit
Nice Lady will know why Arya is an inspo as soon as I say this
south horizon
and he introduices himself by the whole thing
buoyant summit
My Sid is an Arajana
south horizon
every time
oh that sounds familiar
uhhhhh
god is that dreaming sea or prasadi related or
south horizon
ah, i haven't actually devled deep into gem before
limpid badge
*The Heartless Beast Marked In Blood, Bereft of Mercy, Blessed By The Void and H...
very good!
marsh garden
They're who Rankar Paul Atreides'd
i thought there were still a lot of them left?
marsh garden
they're just in hiding
limpid badge
abyssal names are very fun im currently playing A Bloody Hand Holds Aloft A Black Blade of Sorrows
south horizon
Lover was low on souls teeel so she just uh
ripped off his lower soul
and used that
:^)
buoyant summit
i thought there were still a lot of them left?
There are a scattered few, and Elesh is the rare one in a position to be a Problem
marsh garden
waow
one day i will make an abyssal using my second manticore's name
A Tragic Absence of Whimsy
however, that will require getting in more games than this one
and playing a very unserious abyssal
bleak hazel
Re: earlier conversation, Sids often come off stronger than they are because when they're winning it's "according to the fourth technique of Heavenly Mirrorcodex Style I get double damage and the right to fuck your wife" and when they're losing you just show up and punch them a few times and they die.
since they're squishy, they often need prep time and their techniques are powerful but specialised
buoyant summit
Or you can be like me and just make them an assassin
coral wraith
Sids are Sideways Batman
marsh garden
i keep hearing that they're squishy but then it keeps coming with an asterisk of "unless you take x or y SMA"
south horizon
long story short, Marked is a dmeonblooded boi who has issues forming attachments, go tmarried young(by modern standards, he lived in a village so 16 isn't that young but still yougn), had issues there, got in a fight, had his vilalge raided before he coudl apologies, chased Lintah acorss several ports to try and murderize them into telling him where the woman who did it went, said woman was a warlock or an infernal and killed him by tearing out his heart, tand then he exulted and decided that doing things is hard, he's never going to do things again and just give himself entirely over to the lover's machinations
buoyant summit
Fuck You, No Fair Fights
south horizon
and yes
this is the short readers digest vibe
Marked is a character i've basically developed over
damn near my entire existence as an Exalted fan
wise ocean
i keep hearing that they're squishy but then it keeps coming with an asterisk of...
well if a sid is going toad mode they're not using the gigafuck damage sma
so it's whatever
south horizon
Sids are, inehrently, very squishy compared to most other exalts
get the least amount of ox bodies per charm investment
a lot of sid strength comes because their charms are extremely weird
buoyant summit
i keep hearing that they're squishy but then it keeps coming with an asterisk of...
There's an E1 Athletics charm that gives you Essence Strength and that improved Strength value as natural soak
south horizon
and they have SMAs, which breakt the game
wise ocean
realistically a sid really wants to just show up with greater sign of [mars/saturn] and a top-tier prophecy and then pop their Funny Megacombo
buoyant summit
It also takes a couple years off your lifespan on use
wise ocean
if it doesn't work things start becoming rapidly more problematic
south horizon
they have a lot of very neat tricks
and are the premier martial arts users in the setting
limpid badge
hi everyone im here to ask for thoughts on the Command Merit- im trying to price out what i want to give Arby which is "A mercenary company of demon-blooded who would Really Love To Leave Hell"
buoyant summit
Which will admittedly take a while to become relevant, as Sids' upper ceiling is what, 5k?
south horizon
hi everyone im here to ask for thoughts on the Command Merit- im trying to price...
uhhh, i'd just add 1 dot to whatever ur buying
i think this came up before
marsh garden
someone here mentioned something about 5k being the natural limit pre-extensions
chilly sluice
One extra dot for Might 1 yeah
south horizon
but if these dmeonblooded have any kind of like
special abilities on mass
then 1 might is what you give them
limpid badge
no i figure they're just. Guys From Hell (not demons)
south horizon
someone here mentioned something about 5k being the natural limit pre-extensions
depends on the exalt type
ands sids dont'get extensions
limpid badge
yeah im just sort of puzzling myself at size bc 5 full dots would be like. an entire legion of men.
south horizon
their fuse is pre-decided
limpid badge
which is a stupid amount of guys to give a 19 year old
buoyant summit
Sids' upper ceiling is 5k and they cannot extend it as decreed by fate
buoyant summit
As soon as one hits 5,001, stack overflow happens and they drop dead
south horizon
the maidens have a fated death in mind for every sid
buoyant summit
Their plans for Elesh are probably quite violent
south horizon
of course other things can come into play that kill themearly
such is the nature of the exalted
chilly sluice
yeah im just sort of puzzling myself at size bc 5 full dots would be like. an en...
3 dots seems like a pretty reasonable size for a company
Maybe 4
chilly sluice
3 dots plus the extra for Might is probably fine though
coral wraith
Yeah, agreed
south horizon
man i can't believe i didn't ever look for an exalted chat here in the lancer cord
marsh garden
that's the note for abyssals, so that'd make sense to carry over for basically anything else that's just "goobers +1 MT"
coral wraith
Size 3, Might 1, Elite Drill is a merc company of Pretty Badass Dudes
south horizon
and if u just want them to be demonblooded aesthetically
then just normal command works
3e makes it clear that just being godblooded doesn't always grant special powers
sometimes you're just a weird dude
limpid badge
okay what if i give them the +1 Might to represent weird hell-weapons actually....
that might be funny
units of guys with acid-sprayers
tulip folio
Seems legit
marsh garden
what could 3-dot contacts look like for an abyssal that's not exactly proactive? i was thinking like, ghosts of the recent dead that are just drawn to him and whisper things about their deaths or woes or grudges, but i don't know how expansive that should be allowed to be, or if that's in-scope or too tame in scope
coral wraith
I read woes as something else for a second
marsh garden
this is because i have 4-dot whispers (i am, again, having a bad time)
chilly sluice
3 dot Contacts is an intel network that spans an entire region somewhere
Where you can just kinda get info if you need something
coral wraith
Yeah, as a splat specific example, 3 dots of contacts for Sids is an entire bureau's worth
marsh garden
i was more going for "vast but specific reach" as like
fresh ghosts don't exactly have mystical secrets (very often), but there are always more of them
chilly sluice
Going for ghosts is probably okay I think
So you'd be able to find something almost everywhere but they have less general info
marsh garden
and they might often have pertinent things to say about the area (how and why they died, their regrets and grudges)
coral wraith
I think passively attracting ghosts and getting whispers on the wind from them is a cool idea
nova yew
Ghosts love to gossip
marsh garden
but it's always going to be specific things, because they're still caught up in their mortal troubles
it's always their life and their regrets, the things they wish they could have done or the debt collector that kicked them out onto the streets
their bastard neighbor they know was stealing their recipes...or the treasure they stumbled across during an escort mission and that they were killed over
tulip folio
3 dot Contacts is an intel network that spans an entire region somewhere
To be fair 'the underworld' is a region
limpid badge
stupid idea voice: i can make a unique first-circle to serve as my infernal's familiar
lets make dinner for two the worst possible fucking Creature.
merry arch
they have templates now that you can use as a jumping off point in the manuscript
limpid badge
YAY
marsh garden
To be fair 'the underworld' *is* a region
isn't the underworld a similar scale to creation?
bleak hazel
It also takes a couple years off your lifespan on use
A few days, rhi
marsh garden
it notes 5 dots as "anywhere within a Direction", which feels more in bounds with the broader reach but narrower purview of the dead
bleak hazel
and re: squishiness, it's possible to make a very durable Sid but you need a bunch of merits and combos and specific martial arts to equal what a Lunar can do by showing up and palm slamming 7 motes on Deadly Beastman and artifact armour, or 4 motes on hippo form.
and that lunar is hitting the soak softcap at E1 and effectively zero investment
limpid badge
lunar soakbeast is a grand tradition
bleak hazel
Also everyone else soakbeast because of medium and heavy artifact armour, which all SMAs lock you out of
bleak hazel
Yeah, more than 15-20 soak is almost universally pointless
marsh garden
does this include at high essence?
marsh garden
which is the guaranteed chip of overwhelm values?
bleak hazel
The maximum useful soak is (weapon damage + strength + attack extra successes) - weapon overwhelming
Strength effectively caps at 5 without charms, weapon damage minus overwhelm is usually 10-11
tulip folio
There are charms that can spike that but there's also charms that can spike the soak part of it too.
bleak hazel
and parry isn't usually being beaten by more than low single figures
tulip folio
So for 'resting' soak...
bleak hazel
so 11 to soak the weapon, 5 to soak the strength and then a tiny bit more for threshold successes if you really want
marsh garden
and i assume the way around soakbeast builds for enemy exalted is just uh. attacking their willpower and/or casting spells?
south horizon
ah soak
the eternal problem
the way around soak beasts is not dealing with them
more helpfully, also depends on if ti's armorede soak
bleak hazel
Usually it's using the post-soak withering damage enhancers in almost every combat tree
marsh garden
gotcha
south horizon
ands also any effects taht deael decisive damage without interacting with soak
tulip folio
and i assume the way around soakbeast builds for enemy exalted is just uh. attac...
Overwhelming also sets the 'minimum' soak can reduce something.
marsh garden
yeah but i assume that's pretty slow and sketchy
south horizon
because Soak only cares about withering
tulip folio
An artifact weapon gives you a decent 'base' overwhelming.
wise ocean
what is the damage output of a tankmaxxing toadsid anyway, actually
tulip folio
And some people can really fuck with overwhelming.
marsh garden
oh, there are bomb consumables?
south horizon
yeah but i assume that's pretty slow and sketchy
it also might be your only option
bleak hazel
At high essence soakbeasts actually become less of an issue because it's easy to hit the soak softcap at E1 but overwhelming tech gets better as you go
south horizon
soak beast builds are very troublesome
tulip folio
The Endings Sid for example is a classic
bleak hazel
At E1 everyone being really soaky can really grind the game to a crawl
south horizon
oh, there are bomb consumables?
explosives of all kinds are treated as one-time environmental hazard
marsh garden
nice
bleak hazel
At E5 I just shrug and use some combination of fire and stones/red jade fury/artifact/lesser sign of endings to hit whelm 10-15 and beat people up
tulip folio
Meanwhile an endings sid at E1: 'I have an artifact medium sword, I'm in Even Blade form and I have the lesser sign going. Overwhelming 8'
south horizon
yeah there are definitely answers to soak
bleak hazel
Shut up, Overwhelm Georg
south horizon
but it can be an issue if someone like
bleak hazel
the rest of us are over here at 4-5
south horizon
overuses it against a group that is lesser aware of those answers
tulip folio
Soak is at it's strongest against people who don't have access to artifact weapons. As even the worst artifact weapon has like twice the overwhelming of the best mundane weapon.
bleak hazel
Yeah going into soak with mundane weapons or unarmed MA builds sucks supremely
tulip folio
Soak for example ruins the day of battle groups.
'Hey so we've got lots of dice and big numbers but we're still overwhelming 1 with the spears'
bleak hazel
It's pretty much the whole reason I went for the slightly awkward melee setup for Rival rather than Brawl
tulip folio
It's also why when I was doing up quick characters I designed the Ereta'een as Soakbreakers. They're not particularly skilled, they're not particularly high damage but they bring artifact-tier hardness and overwhelming on otherwise mediocre guys, making them a weird for in exalted.
Most people with high overwhelming are also like...competent
bleak hazel
Unless they're animals
Animals hit like fifteen bulldozers and have pathetically useless dice pools, especially corebook animals
coral wraith
I'm planning on getting this beautiful charm to crack any soakbeasts we come across
Shadow-Piercing Needle
Cost: 3m; Mins: Thrown 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Dual, Versatile
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Sidereal’s weapon unspools into a shimmering yellow strand of needle-sharp Essence, piercing both armor
and soul.
When the Sidereal attacks, her target’s soak is reduced
to (his base Resolve + current temporary Willpower)
and his Hardness is reduced to (base Resolve) against it,
if those are lower. He can raise these values with applicable magic, but not artifact armor.```That'll do some work, yeah
bleak hazel
which can cause some issues when a Lunar gets a t rex form and straps a 24 dice brawl pool to it
(grumblegrumble tyrant lizards)
tulip folio
Yeah. Corebook Animals were not designed with lunars in mind.
Which kinda shocks me, as lunars are the thing everyone knew was going to be in the game from moment one.
And then I go 'right, corebook'
coral wraith
hello 4 resolve lunar. goodbye
limpid badge
Animals hit like fifteen bulldozers and have pathetically useless dice pools, es...
this is because Sick Bones
we must stress how weirdly resilliant yet sick exalted's bones are in that corebook
bleak hazel
Corebook lunar combat forms that are exceptionally good:
T-Rex
Stegosaurus
Hippo
Armadillo
Housecat
tulip folio
Generally, I go 'please do not take corebook animals' for lunar players but sadly corebook is also the book with Most Of The Animals so that results in a lot of 'We need to redesign things'.
bleak hazel
in descending order of plausibility but not power
Death Kitty is a highly versatile and optimised lunar build
tulip folio
Housecat is a beast. My Lunar Sorcerer can vouch for the nonsense that is 'SNEAK ATTACK SPELL!' with a cat.
Dodgy Kitty with Free Dice on her nuke because she's small
Honestly, animals are something I wouldn't mind seeing someone do a redesign project for. As there's A) Less of them than All Solar Charms B) They matter both for non-lunar games and lunar games as players like to both fight and have animals.
limpid badge
you know that at least sounds kinda fun
it'd be mostly assembling dicepools and maybe some unique gambits
bleak hazel
I think you could solve 75% of the problems with some generic rule tweaks to grapple, legendary size, soak stacking and fall damage
since things tend to melt when interacting with one of those four
animal or not
and then the rest of the animal problems tend to be of the form "this wasn't meant to have 24 dice behind it" and that's a much easier redesign for things like Join Battle intimidate shotgun, that one dino with free Heaven Thunder Hammer and Deadly Thrash
south horizon
Honestly, *animals* are something I wouldn't mind seeing someone do a redesign p...
i think animals are also one of the reaons i just
do not enjoy playing lunars
because a) needing too look through all the forms is pain
and B)god the idea of seeing an animal the looks cool then seeing how it's qulaities make everything i wanna do over tuned an experience i felt when i first started
i also just don't like attribute charms
even alchemical charms, which has the benefit of submodules, i still ended up mostly investing in artifact and MA for the one i built
tulip folio
it'd be mostly assembling dicepools and maybe some unique gambits
Yeah, that's my thoughts. Also I feel like you could also go a good bit with that keyword that is 'Yeah, it needs to be trained to do this', as that forces a lunar to actually spend a charm to learn that tricky.
It's funny, as attribute charms are my favorite.
I like them a lot more than ability charms
south horizon
Attribute charms for me feels like either i'm getting nickle and dimed or i'm not able to like
get a statisfactory feeling of investment out of my picks
it always has felt kinda meh for me building lunars, though i'll admit that is in part because i just don't much care for the shape shifting aspect of lunars
war form is my main investment with that typically
It felt less like animal forms wre an option that could assist me, and more like it was the thing i needed to get the most bang for buck and not investing in animal forms made me feel kinda eh
marsh garden
hm, seeing all the infernal stretch goals, how many did abyssals meet?
does their upcoming companion book have any of the stuff that was in its kickstarter, or is it all a mystery?
i've heard that infernals has done drastically better than abyssals and alchemicals did
so i'm hoping that there's at least gonna be a neverborn writeup in the abyssals one
oh wow that last message sent late
south horizon
Neverborn are unlikely ti get writeups as they are, in 3e, much less defined
ad they're, well, dead
the exact number of them is never directly stated and the way they communicate and grant power is closer to Lovercraftian gods
it's an barely conscious exertion of their will and nature, but more often than not they're not really aware
and Abyssals did poorly for
a few reasons
It was on a new platform people didn't like/were unfamiliar because Paradox(who owns exalted as an IP) was being a PoS with approvals for kickstarter or some such
marsh garden
rip
south horizon
and also.a lot of their charms were very similar to solars, which is an issue because the last iteration of Abyssals had a lot of charms that literally were solar charms
like
"here is some flavor text, the actual rules are in core" tier
south horizon
not quite that bad
riders of the su less lands still got a decent chunk
140 something
so there is a decent bit of stuff innit
but yeah, not as good as infernals
and no where near as good as Sidereals
which got a buff because it's basically also the Martial.arts book
and everyone loves martial arts
marsh garden
that makes sense
tulip folio
You know who I'd find cool to see more of in the new abyssal book?
The Twin Monarchs
south horizon
yeeeeeeah
tulip folio
Or some other big non-neverborn-aligned undead
south horizon
twin monarchs are sick as hell
chilly sluice
They are pretty cool
marsh garden
sijan?
south horizon
Really cool location in Exalted
Basic gist: It's where everyone goes to have their funereal.rughts habdled
tulip folio
i've heard that infernals has done *drastically* better than abyssals and alchem...
I'm not surprised they did better than Alchemicals. I love alchemicals but they've always been the red jade stepchild of exalted.
south horizon
a city that is run by the dead more than the livint
marsh garden
and what causes liminal exaltations, anyway?
because they're just like
abyssal knockoffs
chilly sluice
We don't know I think
south horizon
Yes but no
tulip folio
If you only care about Creation, Alchemicals are a rather 'you won't deal with this much' thing.
tulip folio
Which hurts, as I want them to be more popular but it is the nature of 'we put you in the corner'
south horizon
semi-new idea
marsh garden
pain
south horizon
Liminals are bit abyssal knock offs though
their whole bit is that they're ftankenstein monster type exalts arisen by acts of dark creative passion from a mortal who serves as their bind to life
marsh garden
oh
chilly sluice
They're Prometheans
south horizon
and functionally, they are meant to be kind of the . . . guardians of proper death?
kind of
we don't know a lot about them
as they're mostly new to 3e
chilly sluice
Some guy tries to revive someone, instead you now exist
south horizon
yeah
marsh garden
i admit, i'm kind of super uninterested in that
i'm happy that the people who like them have them though
south horizon
understandable
marsh garden
if they're a new thing
chilly sluice
i admit, i'm kind of super uninterested in that
This is a common sentiment lmao
south horizon
a lot of people are kinda chill on liminals and the other new exalts, Getimians
marsh garden
if i wanted to play promethean i'd (search, longingly and futilely) for a promethean game
chilly sluice
I've yet to see someone who is like actually excited about Liminals tbh
south horizon
I've yet to see someone who is like actually excited about Liminals tbh
same
i like.the idea
because codependency is a fun thene
but essence
kinda really madr that aspect non-existant
so my.hype went down
marsh garden
codependency is great, i just like the idea of abyssals being the only death exalted because the way death exists in exalted is fundamentally unnatural
chilly sluice
Gets at least have some fun stuff, thematically and mechanically (from what we can extrapolate from Essence)
south horizon
codependency is great, i just like the idea of abyssals being the only death exa...
that isn't true
Death isn't fundamentally unnatural
south horizon
Undeath is
south horizon
yeah, people don't become ghosts automatically
marsh garden
but the mechanics around death
south horizon
Thenidea behind the dwrk mother is that the underworld existed in some form before hand
same as the "Old Laws"
things that were therr before theNeverborn, well, happened
and that their death fundamentally disrupted
so Abyssals are one side of that equation
and liminals supposedly are the other
chilly sluice
Hmmm
south horizon
but again, we don't know a ton
sonit's hard to make hard judgements
and essence's breakdowns are . . .lacking
Lore wise, i find them.neat
but i'd have rather had Sijan, which is a cool as fuck location
have been detailed in Abyssals
chilly sluice
My thing with Liminals is that I don't hate them
But there's just nothing about them that really interests me either
south horizon
A city of tombs where the topside is fully for the dead while the living serve their needs jnderground
and who hold all the secrets if funerary techniques
which makes them politcially
unfuck with abke
chilly sluice
Also they're Terrestrials, which is also ehhh
marsh garden
i know
chilly sluice
not a fan of terrestrial exalted?
I'm not a huge fan of the two tiers of power (plus Solaroids being kinda another half step up)
south horizon
who are neater but also kinda eh
i am fine with it if the mechanics are fun
they jist kinda bungle it more often than not
lower scale adventures in creation do need lesser powers
chilly sluice
But mostly it just kinda feels like being a Terrestrial just means you get less cool toys than everyone else
south horizon
and i think there is def fun to he had there
ye
dragonblood lost a kot of mechanical identity
from.2e to 3e
chilly sluice
Like the Terrestrial tag on MA is that pretty directly, as well as their charms just generally being much more constrained
marsh garden
i assume it differed heavily per element?
south horizon
it's such an awful idea
kiiiiinda
It's more so that in 2e deebs were the teamwork guys
south horizon
and their charms very much encouraged that and with leading armies
marsh garden
and combo moves
marsh garden
ah
south horizon
and their aura mechanic makes attempting to play off element very awkward
chilly sluice
They have charms that benefit being in that sworn brotherhood thing
south horizon
yeah
and that's about it
Another thing deebs used to have is superior access to artufacts and gear and resources
and they toned that down by a lot
also.made their excellencies weird and. . .
just a lot of changes that didn't really make them.better
chilly sluice
It's still a bit easier, just because a Deeb can spare the merit dots much more easily, and or have high Resources
south horizon
Which sucks because deeb lore is so fuckin good
Like.beung a dynastic character
or a lookshy character
is such good roleplay fodder
chilly sluice
also.made their excellencies weird and. . .
Their excellencies are akso just a bit of a downer yeah
Plus having to buy them separately
south horizon
having been playing 2e deebs recently
i disagree that they're not playable
your def not going pound fir piund on your own against a celestial
coral wraith
your perfect block gets turned off by any added magic
south horizon
but you are the meanest fuckin gsnk swuad
that is inded
dumb
not gunna defend that
also playing 2.5 which fixes some thungs worsens others
but i find that even if strixtly powrr level wise
2e deebs might be worse
i find their charms more fun and focused
vs 3e
also the terretrial tag
diesn't exist in 2e
marsh garden
the terrestrial tag gives me conniptions, it's true
and i haven't even played the game
south horizon
so if u want powerful tech, you can invest twi chsrms of ur build into being able to lesrn celsstial ma charms and then just
get the effects
chilly sluice
the terrestrial tag gives me conniptions, it's true
It's just kinda how Terrestrials shake out generally in 3e
south horizon
without stupid ass debuffs for no god damn reason
terrestial mas in 2e were cool and fun, if nit as directly powerful
why did they decided to do this
marsh garden
i'm surprised this wasn't a thing that got shot down by the folks during previews
south horizon
also different team
chilly sluice
It's just kinda how Terrestrials shake out generally in 3e
Their charms are akso just less flexible or less powerful than comparable Celestial charms
chilly sluice
And I get the intention of it, but it still feels kinda bad
south horizon
ye
All in all, you can still have fun and do cool.shit as a deeb
but it's an uphill fight, especially if ur trying to go off element with a conceot
because aura is not a boost it's a fuckin lock
also xp cost changes that are actively stupid and
Lunars is the first thing done exclusively by the new team
solars and deebs suffer a lot from.the og design choices
and everything since lunars has been mainly pretty solid
Alxhemicals have really cool.shit
they're just also
. . . i won't even say hard to justify in creation
marsh garden
wot
south horizon
but feel very much like a splat that wants you to have a home base
And not a lot of people play exalted that way
chilly sluice
You are pretty much required to have your maintenance team
south horizon
ye
south horizon
wot
3e added in the bit where some alchemicals are protypes left behind incapules in creation
and also sometime speople just
marsh garden
no, it was the words
coral wraith
to be fair, that's not a massive merit investment
south horizon
backrooms no clip through the barrier
marsh garden
that you edited
coral wraith
even 1 dot of followers is 12 skilled individuals
south horizon
ah gotcha
it's not, ye
but alchemicals just are a communal vibe splat that i think most people don't come to exalted for
people want their individual heroism
while alchenicals, while heroes in their own right, are imcentives to serve their communitie
and very much rely on them
it's a really cool conceot, handled amazingly
it just feels much more constricting once your no longer in autobot
at least to me
velvet raft
I absolutely love them for exactly that reason
Yeah, you probably need to figure out logistics with a few merit dots, but my favorite thing about alchemicals is that they are reliant on their networks of support.
south horizon
Ye
i very much enjoyed my time playone in a friend's test game for them
and in autobot specifically
vibes are immaculate
in creation though, i'd prob need to be convinced on the vibe in the campaign
Alcheimicals did give me
my fav weapon ever though
Voltspindle my beloved
suxh a stupidly efficient artifact
my god
"Soak? What's soak"
"I just deal a ton of posr soak damage everytime, forever, on every hit, because i'm always going first"
went into a combat with basically no soak against an e4 enemy, got smacked several times
and never got crashed
because i always had like 30-40 initative after my turns
marsh garden
alch lightsabers are fucked up
south horizon
indeed
Alchemical charms are extremely good bang for buck as well
they don't hit thebhigh highs of like
solars and suxh
but they are very consistent
marsh garden
free pen, free decisive damage against any unarmed, and demolition bonuses as a treat
yummers
south horizon
much yummers
you do feel that added attunement cost tho
alsonthatnfight also taught me that, actually
i ahould slow my roll more
in exalted figgts
going zero to 100 isn't all.it's cracked up to be ince u can't two shot ur enemy
that being saidz adamant bonfire anima ability is some bullshit
Whynyes i will give everyone free motes, initative, and the ability to enter their bonfire animas please and thank you
a full.team of alchemical is so fucked up to face
tulip folio
it's good, though it's no Greater Sign of Mars. XD
south horizon
tru
marsh garden
...i shouldn't have looked at void-circle necromancy
it's gotten me too excited
why did they have to make magic so fucking cool
marsh garden
i can't look at sorcery
it'll make me take that too
and then i'll be fucked
because i have so many other charms i want already
coral wraith
consider you can buy spells with splat XP, thus being able to take them alongside charms
coral wraith
thats right
mind you, Workings will cut further into your XP if you want to do those
but you get to reshape the world and shit, so worth
marsh garden
yeah...
hm
how simple/complex are workings that make environmental spells permanent?
like basically all of the void spells are "fuck this city up lol"
coral wraith
oh yeah Void/Solar workings go insane style
marsh garden
is there a codification for how simple or complex a working of "this spell that i know but permanent and undisruptable" is?
i haven't really looked into their rules yet, i just know there's like
magnitude/finesse/means stats
coral wraith
thats generally codified by Ambition
marsh garden
gotcha
coral wraith
For each circle,
an Ambition 1 working is what most sorcerers might consider a simple feat of magic, similar in power to what might be achieved by a spell of that circle. An Ambition 2 working is an exceptional feat of magic, with considerable
power or scope beyond what any spell could achieve. An Ambition 3 working is the highest and most difficult feat of that circle’s magic that can be imagined, defining the upper bound of what that circle of sorcery can accomplish.```gootcha
so "this spell but forever" would be ambition 2, most likely?
because it's a straightforward effect that a spell can handle, but pushed to its limits?
coral wraith
It might depend on the spell in question, but I'd say that makes sense for the most part
marsh garden
cool cool
are workings always permanent?
or is that just one of the levers to pull?
because i understand that permanent workings just cannot be removed, basically without exception
and the only way to counter them is with an oppositional working
coral wraith
it does say they're permanent, which seems to be why they're quite costly - i'm not sure if this has been expanded elsewhere, but if not, i don't see why you couldn't do a temporary working, or one with a specific trigger where it turns off/fades away, for less XP/time interval/etc.
marsh garden
coral wraith
a necromancer cursing the land until a hero performs XYZ is a classic trope
marsh garden
yeah, and i love that that's just the baseline effect of one of the void spells
my immediate thought was just that but as a working with "the feat of demolition requires the knowing and willing sacrifice of a hero, who is slain and immediately rises as an undead with (unbreakable, defining) loyalty to the caster"
full There Must Always Be A Lich King
velvet raft
Yeah, you probably need to figure out logistics with a few merit dots, but my fa...
Like, to expand on this a little, I think part of what I end up caring about a lot with any given type of Exalt is who their community is
Who do they spend time with, who do they talk to?
So I like Sids, for instance, because of how distinctive Arcane Fate makes their social circle
marsh garden
i think that's part of what had me instantly enamored with abyssals
velvet raft
And Solars do very little for me because the splat doesn't give you much of anything in that respect
marsh garden
the immediate hook for a boss to care about (love or hate)
velvet raft
But for most Exalts, they end up somewhat ... divided, from human beings.
marsh garden
an immediate and direct authority over ghosts and the dead, and an incentive to engage with that
and forced dots in one of the Talks To People merits
velvet raft
Alchemicals are distinctive because their relationships with mortals and mortal communities matter a lot, by design.
marsh garden
yeah i'm really interested in them now
they look cool and y'all have done a great job hyping them up
velvet raft
Despite being the most machine-like of the Exalted, they are also the most human in that they are incapable of living alone.
coral wraith
All the core Exalts all have really solid draws to them except Solars, I think
velvet raft
And in all four cases a lot of that draw is social, imo
marsh garden
all four? are alchs not core?
coral wraith
I thought they were
marsh garden
infernals weren't core in 2e?
velvet raft
Naw, those were the core 5
marsh garden
huh
velvet raft
Not that the others were unimportant, just
Those 5 have always been the central lines
marsh garden
it's the ones that revolved most around the solars?
velvet raft
But of the broader sweep in 3e, I think Liminals are the big ones that feel like they may have the Solar Problem
Gets ... I'm uncertain. We'll have to see how their social ties play out
marsh garden
they're getting a book soon, yeah?
coral wraith
eehhh
marsh garden
oh nyo
coral wraith
so like. the Abyssals manuscript came out in 2023
The book itself only dropped this year
Infernals may have an accelerated timeline due to a much more successful kickstarter
But Alchemicals are first in line
marsh garden
ah
coral wraith
Their manuscript was 2024
Gets...do not have a manuscript
So it'll be a hot minute
velvet raft
Infernals is supposed to hit 2027 IIRC
coral wraith
criminy
velvet raft
We'll get the full alchemicals book before them
coral wraith
yeah, if we're following a 2 year release schedule it'll be Alchemicals next year
Infernals year after
velvet raft
But I think the next publication is going to be the Sid companion
coral wraith
Sid Companion either before Alchemicals or after? yeah
velvet raft
Which is apparently going to be a lot of stuff for exalts in general, not just sids
coral wraith
The previews are absolute bangers already
Looking forward to it
sorcerous martial arts 
marsh garden
i wonder if the bishop might have a necromantic martial art...
coral wraith
I think more likely than the Bishop would be Walker or even the Eye and Seven Despairs
Bishop is too busy aura farming in his personal SMA
marsh garden
makes sense
coral wraith
i might have just have had a banger idea
necromantic MA based on Raise the Skeletal Horde that focuses on Agent Smith'ing your dudes
so you act through a corpse body and push it to ludicrous limits you couldn't sustain
velvet raft
Okay, thought
Sorcerous SMA that is based on three spells, differing but similar, across three circles
Meaning a sid cannot ever learn the pinnacle charm
And maybe it has the same thing as albicant, but for Infernals
coral wraith
Solar/Infernal only 
tulip folio
Sorcery 2
coral wraith
Alchs can do Sorc 2/Necro 2 but only one or the other
marsh garden
ahh, neat
coral wraith
They can't initiate into both
tulip folio
And you have to be a bit heretic-y for necromancy
marsh garden
makes sense
coral wraith
This is the Infernal charm for necromancy - you get fuckin walloped when you turn it on
velvet raft
Yeah
velvet raft
From a lore perspective, necromancy is foreign to the primordials, and comes uneasily to their kin
marsh garden
i thought t1 spells in general was normal for mortals, and as such anyone else
marsh garden
From a lore perspective, necromancy is foreign to the primordials, and comes une...
huh.
velvet raft
Remember, the primordials did not design the Underworld
marsh garden
so because solars/lunars/sids are made by the gods, they're fine?
velvet raft
It's effectively a divide-by-zero error
marsh garden
but because infernals have been interfered with by the primordials, they're dinkled a bit
makes sense
velvet raft
And they have various primordial characteristics, themselves.
marsh garden
odd that it has a cost but then just
the cost isn't sustained and it has no duration
so they can just fugue forever
but i suppose that's the narrative side of "is in a death fugue"
velvet raft
IIRC this was an Ebon Dragon charm back in the day, and it makes sense that he, of all the Yozis, would be able to learn necromancy.
Since, principle of opposition.
marsh garden
Remember, the primordials did not design the Underworld
they did design the initial principles (the lethe), right?
or was that pre-packed in the Soup Before All Things with the wyld?
velvet raft
They designed Lethe, I believe, but not the Underworld as this weird holding pattern for the dead.
And of course Infernals also have some very strong anti-undead charms for this reason
marsh garden
ye
velvet raft
Reasserting the proper order of things 😤
Incidentally, sids also have very strong anti-undead charms
A reminder that Hell is the former regime of Heaven, I suppose
tulip folio
so because solars/lunars/sids are made by the gods, they're fine?
Gods ARE designed to be able to die
Not primordials
Death is incomprehensible and impossible for them.
marsh garden
so it should probably be obvious, but i'm going to ask anyway: "failed working roll" just means like. succeeding on zero dice, yes?
not "every failure 1-6 on a die"
this seems obvious, but i gotta ask
tulip folio
Yeah
marsh garden
so i was staring lustfully at this charm until i noticed that you have to resummon it every scene 
is there precedent for workings that are "i cast dnd 3e permanence"?
i certainly assume it's doable, since it's effectively "make an artifact out of a soul" in uh
very classic crafting project vein
but is there justification for it as a working instead of a project?
trying to figure out how murky the line is
velvet raft
is there precedent for workings that are "i cast dnd 3e permanence"?
Not really on charms
marsh garden
makes sense
velvet raft
But it is really strong with Relic Arrow Method
Also, something to consider: all of these "summon an item" charms let you buy evocations for normal charm prices
velvet raft
I don't think "this bow can be summoned reflexively" would be out-of-line for an evocation
But goddamn, spending 2 motes for 2 non-charm dice is absolutely wild
That's basically just "your dice cap rises by two for this weapon"
marsh garden
successes if you have whispers, even...
velvet raft
Yep
tulip folio
...silly quick character pondering - Doing up some autocthonian stuff. A couple of machine spirits and some 'this is an autocthonian human unit that isn't something you'd see in creation'
Seem interesting?
marsh garden
it does to me
tulip folio
And in 'a bit more conventional' guys. They're pretty good at what they do and what they do is 'Throw Grenades and then Get Shanking'
fierce star
I do appreciate a good grenade-n-shank
tulip folio
They're not that fancy but I hope they're interesting at least.
fierce star
I think they're cool!
and elite troops need more sidegradeoptions for the command merit tbh
tulip folio
Relative to the Brides they're less dodgy but much better armoured (The brides are 4 soak). Relative to the Elite Troops, they're less block-y and less soak-y but they 'have a ranged weapon'
Slight number tinkerings around the edges.
fierce star
nods
tulip folio
Gave them a hair more spice
They might not outfight the Elite Troops in melee or outshoot the Brides (As they have slow, the brides do not) but they bring Toys.
fierce star
oooh det charges
tulip folio
I also made sure to go 'no, if you have a battlegroup you don't have 50 demolitions. You have one big demolition'
As otherwise tracking that would be a pain
lament owl
I can’t stop thinking about niborians
fierce star
Oh?
lament owl
Oh?
I had an idea for how to use the exigent book to stat them out while still emphasizing they are distinct from exalts.
@nova yew gave me the idea that they would have a third part of their soul, but they made it through weird fish cultivation instead of an exaltation, created through very heavy oceanic pressure.
They are celestial tier, but they get 9 thematically focused charm trees that work a bit like martial arts instead of "make you good with this attribute or ability" trees exalts get .
Also, rather than being a particular species, Niborians get 6 dots of mutations+amphious at charecter creation to represent that any sort of weird fish guy can become one
so you can see why they lost
Exalts are built to Do Something, these guys just Have Superpowers
but their superpowers are still rad
power wise they were gonna be doing a mix of BTD6 Mermonkey, Aquaman metaphysics and Deep Ones
lament owl
I think its critical that these guys can do this
