Sidereal dodge is in serenities so being able to use social stat instead of dex to calculate your evasion would be neat
#Exalted
lament owl
tulip folio
Sidereal dodge is in serenities so being able to use social stat instead of dex ...
Theyv'e got it in dodge currently!
lament owl
Oh lmao
next delta
Do they replace it with Appearance?
prisma sun
Believe so yes
next delta
"Sorry, you'd ruin my suit and the universe can't have that"
lament owl
Oh that also makes sense
tulip folio
Wait, sorry. They've got it in performance
lament owl
Too pretty to hit me
tulip folio
Defense of Shining Joy
Cost: —; Mins: Performance 1, Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Uniform
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Sidereal anticipates her enemy’s every move as if they were dancing together, maneuvering gracefully in perfect counterpoint to his offense.
The Sidereal can use (Appearance + [Dodge or Performance]) to calculate her Evasion. She can apply relevant Dodge specialties on dance-based Performance rolls, and vice versa with dance-related Performance specialties.
Right because sidereals are freaks who made their charm trees do the wrong thing on purpose as a joke
prisma sun
Always keep them guessing
tulip folio
Sid Dodge is very appearnace-heavy though
As it's got a lot of 'the more you fail to catch me, the more you want to'
prisma sun
I got 5 dots in beuracracy, that means I am able to cuck every person in a city in the span of 5 minutes.
lament owl
Sidereal Bureaucracy having anti spirit stuff is still so funny to me
next delta
It is how they are most likely to interact with them lol
dense verge
sid trees having a lot of sideways usage is why i love them a lot
prisma sun
My favorite bit about Sid trees is that any two abilities are guranteed to have at least one weird fuckass combo
lament owl
Noticed earlier today that Numia can purchase Mutations with xp like they are normal merits
I’m suprised Lunars didn’t get something like that
lament owl
Like its most of the time gonna be a bad use of xp compared to buying one of them warform charms- but yeah
prisma sun
Though honestly I feel like having a mutation on all the time by buying it with XP is just kinda straight worse than spending about the same amount and being able to flick it on and off.
lament owl
You actually get them a lot more efficiently
Its like, 8xp for 6 dots of musicians via a warform charm
Mutations not musicians sorry its 3am
next delta
Amazing typo though
Need the musicians to provide boss fight music when you enter your warform
lament owl
Though one might expect the musicians to be retainers, it’s actually a command merit
prisma sun
You only need 1 dot of followers for a back up band tbh
next delta
What if you want there to be a backup band anywhere in Creation. In case you teleport or something
wise ocean
Imagine what you could get out of six dots of musicians, though
next delta
Fighting the FaFL:
Lunar: "I have people everywhere"
<theme music starts playing>
prisma sun
Imagine what you could get out of six dots of musicians, though
The cannons deal damage
lament owl
I keep having very silly exalted homebrew ideas and then remembering why the books are that long and then I don’t make them
I should probably at least make an artifact or something
marsh garden
you should do homebrew
lament owl
One of the first ideas I had was actually making stats for the corrupted terrestrials mentioned in the core book
marsh garden
corrupted terrestrials?
lament owl
Yeah it’s mentioned as a plot hook in the world map section
But there is an island in the same general area as the blessed isles that was controlled by dragon blooded and used as a resupply port for ships on their way over
But something horrible was sealed away on the island now it has subverted all the Deebs that were there
I don’t have it open right now but it like “infested” them or something
lament owl
I was gonna make them very slitterhead inspired
Mainly because I first read the core book while a friend was streaming slitterhead and the way the bosses change through forms actually reminded me of anima banners a lot
buoyant summit
Oh no I'm just now noticing the incredible thematic potential of a craftsid with the distaff and a pattern spider familiar
lament owl
Found the text that inspired me
lament owl
Now that I have more context my big theory is some sort of “former neverborn component soul that has been locked up here since the first age” or something like that
prisma sun
Exalted does just throw shit at you with no desire to explain it
So this thing thats older than time can just be a thing thats older than the primordials and they didnt know what to do with it so they chucked it in a hole
lament owl
That’s also true
prisma sun
Or it could be gaia
lament owl
It could just be some unidentified fucking evil worm monster
buoyant summit
Oh no I'm just now noticing the incredible thematic potential of a craftsid with...
and of course Venerable Google Spider
prisma sun
Do you think pattern spiders and the demon spiders get into turf wars
buoyant summit
Wait are the Google spiders demons?
lament owl
Found the text that inspired me
The plan was that their castes would be like, “evil” versions of the elements, and as their anima banner goes up instead of causing environmental aura stuff they would physically transform becoming less humanoid and more like a weird alien thing
My only other note was that their craft tree would like, “corrupt” existing artifacts to make them weird and alien and evil now
coral wraith
Wait are the Google spiders demons?
no they're spirits
lament owl
Oh right I also wanted medicine to do like, evil bio experiment stuff
buoyant summit
no they're spirits
good to know
prisma sun
Theres just also spider demons
coral wraith
right we're just talking about pattern spiders
tulip folio
I do hope the jadeborn stuff here looks interesting. Trying to put them in 3e Exalted, while keeping to their role as very advanced by most standards. Just putting them more on like a 'Legend of Korra' level of teched up, not 'They regularly bring laser guns' teched up.
marsh garden
damn, i wish this was anything but manipulation lmao
velvet raft
https://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=5575677 Man, if not for the animal ears this would be perfect
Green aura, has a bow
tulip folio
I mean, mutations happen. XD
velvet raft
They do, but it's not fitting for the particular character I have in mind
https://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=4036308 Gonna go with this, probably
Related: some people might say, "grabbing archery and mind-hand and sail charms on one character seems like overkill, gk"
And to those people I say ""
velvet raft
but where are the noodles 😭
velvet raft
hm no moon thief who specializes in stealing knowledge and books and stuff
No university is safe
velvet raft
hm no moon thief who specializes in stealing knowledge and books and stuff
Even though they can't read and have never received any structured education
They just like owning them
marsh garden
hmmm
could y'all explain the vibes on how rare manses are?
like, while i know as an abyssal there's the inherent tacit permission for nearly Whatever The Fuck (acknowledging that, even without that, you're still allowed to buy any merits listed) because you are your deathlord's sugar baby, but
mighty rover
what i hear is that most cities have one
marsh garden
i'm struggling to understand the relative value and rarity of each merit
prisma sun
They are about as rare as Exalts
Which is to say they should be rare but as an Exalt you will come across them a lot
marsh garden
like, would a deathlord just have one or six "lying around" that they're hoarding?
or would they have one to three all jealously guarded and/or given as extremely prestigious rewards to their favorites?
next delta
Deathlords probably (indirectly) control a lot
tulip folio
like, would a deathlord just *have* one or six "lying around" that they're hoard...
Absolutely.
A big part of it: The bigger a manse, the rarer it is.
tulip folio
A minor manse? Oh yeah, they're semi-common. About as common as like a large town. So they're notable and people fight over them but they're also About/Not that rare.
A major manse? That's much less common
marsh garden
how rare are they in comparison to other merits? does the dot count always correlate to increasingly mythical levels of rarity?
tulip folio
By an order of magnitude or more
marsh garden
okay awesome
next delta
I feel like they are less rare than exalts? But probably not ten times more? Total gut feeling here. Partially because there are so many sockets on artifacts lol
Though granted, I might be including demenses (I don't know how to make this plural) in my head here
marsh garden
so a 3-dot manse might be something that a DL would just give away as a housewarming gift to a new knight?
or a solar would have three of and maybe give one to a new circlemate?
tulip folio
so a 3-dot manse might be something that a DL would just give away as a housewar...
To a deathknight? Sure.
Think of it like...he's your knight. You're gunna give him a fort or keep.
marsh garden
right
tulip folio
That doesn't mean a fort or keep is common
But it means they're common enough it's not remotely rare for a celestial exalt to have one
next delta
I think it's a bit rare for a Solar to have a bunch. Unless they conquered a lot of territory. But that's partially because Solars generally haven't been around that long
marsh garden
right, it just means this is the kind of person to which they're an easily claimed or created resource, relatively speaking?
right yeah solars are a five minutes ago thing
tulip folio
The average solar has one artifact sword and it just appeared in his back.
marsh garden
i keep forgetting that
tulip folio
Another thing: It depends on where it is/the elemental alignment. The more the alignment is a mismatch for where it is, the weirder to dragon lines that caused it and the rarer it is.
A Death-Aligned Manse in the underworld? Yeah, that's not that rare.
marsh garden
yeah this would probably be a minor death, earth, or water manse on an underworld coastline
tulip folio
A Death-Aligned Manse in the East? Now that's weird and rare
marsh garden
are elemental manses impossible/rare in the underworld?
tulip folio
yeah this would probably be a minor death, earth, or water manse on an underworl...
Yeah, that seems reasonable.
marsh garden
does "elemental" necessitate "overworld life"?
tulip folio
are elemental manses impossible/rare in the underworld?
Nah, underworld has the same elements.
marsh garden
ballin thanks
marsh garden
lovely jubbly
velvet raft
In 2e there were like ... fucked-up, reverse versions of the elements but ain't nobody got time for that
tulip folio
The only place with different elements is Autocthon and if a deathlord is handing out a manse there i'm gunna be confused 😛
marsh garden
so is the deathlord, probably
tulip folio
In 2e there were like ... fucked-up, reverse versions of the elements but ain't ...
Even then they were basicly just Element(Spooky). Gravedirt instead of earth etc.
velvet raft
Yep
The other thing to bear in mind is that 99% of the time the element associated with a hearthstone doesn't actually matter, so you can probably repurpose it to something fitting without worries
Like, use the mechanical prompt if it does something of interest for you, for sure
marsh garden
what's the like, minimum general influence for "person who could and would give out a manse as a flex in a starter package"
is that something reserved entirely for people as high up as deathlords or major deeb houses?
velvet raft
If you're just giving it out as a flex you're probably very, very wealthy
But there are lots of reasons one might give an exalt a manse
marsh garden
i describe it as a flex because I'm thinking of justifications for fresh exalted, rather than existing allies or for services rendered
velvet raft
Even a fresh Celestial Exalt is a good friend to have
marsh garden
reasonable!
velvet raft
Like, say you're the mayor of Noexalttown
And there's a manse in Noexalttown
It might be nice to find a benign celestial exalt to be Noexalttown's patron
marsh garden
this does make sense
velvet raft
3-dot manses are uncommon but not deeply rare, so there are lots of reasons one might end up with one beyond "I found it in the woods"
Hell, an exalt might even have access to a manse before their second breath. Family temple, or something.
marsh garden
oh, also - i know exalted isn't a huge fan of letting concrete numbers slip, but do we have like
rough population counts?
velvet raft
I don't believe so
marsh garden
how many people live in the Realm? millions? billions?
any indications of magnitude?
unfort
velvet raft
But if you wanted to infer, Creation is on average probably somewhat denser than the time periods it's making visual reference to
With variation based on geography, of course
And the Blessed Isle is something like twice the size of Russia and extremely fertile
So I'd speculate tens of millions on the Blessed Isle at an absolute minimum.
marsh garden
thanks again for answering all of my mostly obvious questions
prisma sun
But if you wanted to infer, Creation is on average probably somewhat denser than...
Isnt it explicitly much less denser than the real world while also being much larger
Due to the Great Contagion killing off most of humanity
next delta
It has been almost a thousand years since the Great Contagion
prisma sun
It does take a lot longer than a thousand years to regain 9/10ths of all humanity
velvet raft
A lot of that 9/10th of humanity was in places that no longer exist iirc
next delta
It'll have a higher carrying capacity (particularly in the more inhospital areas) than similar tech level Earth areas because magic
velvet raft
I might also be remembering backwards because I am dumb, but I seemed to recall that it was denser
prisma sun
A lot of that 9/10th of humanity was in places that no longer exist iirc
Well the Balorian crusade was an additional amount of casualties on top of the 9/10th
next delta
Though a lot of that magical infrastructure has decayed so it's probably not possible to reach Creation's pre-Contagion maximum
velvet raft
That said, Across the Directions has some numbers come to think of it
prisma sun
It does
velvet raft
Gentian is 60,000
(I know this because I was reading about it this morning)
(I am going to set a fic there I think)
prisma sun
They say Nexus Lookshy and the Realm Capital are like some of the only places that can really be called a city by modern standards
next delta
Oh, definitely less dense than modern standards
velvet raft
Yeah, but very few historical cities reached those, if any
next delta
We're saying it's more dense than more historical equivalent areas
mighty rover
gk did you see my infernals slander (affectionate)
velvet raft
I did not
mighty rover
velvet raft
No no see you gotta flip this and on top it says “the Yozis made us because there’s no reality TV in Exalted”
mighty rover
lol
velvet raft
(I am going to set a fic there I think)
My concept is that a benign abyssal and infernal show up in Gentian together and announce they’re going to safeguard the city in its revival, and this causes problems for everyone
Gentian is fun because it has a fuckhuge ghost population
prisma sun
I also think population density is going to naturally skew lower in a setting where giant magical things show up to wipe out villages more regularly than natural disasters
next delta
Hmm, it looks like it took Europe 200 years to recover its population from the Black Death (which halved its population). So with a 200 year doubling time, it's plausible Creation recovered its population by the time of the Empress' disappearance
velvet raft
And a weird local variation of the Immaculate religion that tolerates/promotes ancestor cults
I.e. prime renegade Abyssal real estate
next delta
I don't know how often giant magical things show up if PCs aren't around to deal with them lol
bleak hazel
depends on the glowy thing
most villages are going to know at least a couple of gods/elementals of varying degrees of puniness
next delta
Hmm, it looks like it took Europe 200 years to recover its population from the B...
(I think it's about 800 years from the Empire being crowned to her disappearance, which is 4 doublings: enough to go from 1/10th to > 1)
bleak hazel
to the point the default assumption for unusual glowy things (i.e. not a deeb and not a solar/lunar anathema) is "huh, must be an odd kind of god" followed by "fuckfuckfuck tell the monks"
velvet raft
I'd suggest that the degree of total annihilation by horrible monster probably about evens out with natural disaster prevented by horrible monster
(Exalts count as horrible monsters for this purpose)
bleak hazel
especially since most of the ambient supernatural firepower around the place is made up of elementals and gods, most of which have some kind of creation-maintaining job
might be a fairly unpleasant job as far as people are concerned, but they tend to stop things getting turned upside down by fae or whatever when they can
velvet raft
The great threat to Creation is less everyone getting eaten by a herd of behemoths, and more the slow, grinding, crushing degredation of an Age of Sorrows.
next delta
There are fortunately a lot of entities interested in avoiding areas being annihilated, even if they are not benevolent
wise ocean
The only place with different elements is Autocthon and if a deathlord is handin...
It would actually be an interesting plot point to go with something similar to the Crusades, where a Deathlord says "hey, here's the deed to a manse (you have to raise it) and a parcel of land (you have to conquer it) in Autocthonia, go do my bidding"
velvet raft
My concept is that a benign abyssal and infernal show up in Gentian together and...
A deathknight and a green sun prince walk into Gentian. The deathknight says, "I'm here for your dead." The green sun prince says, "I'm here for your living." Everybody looks very unnerved, and the daimyo says, "please don't eat us."
next delta
Gem isn't going to make it though. It's obliteration is pretty overdetermined lol
buoyant summit
I have just discovered a fucked up combo
bleak hazel
the interesting thing about Exalted's aggregation of stuff-you-need-PCs-to-handle is that Exaltation is kind of a protagonism bestowal system
so there are by default lots of PCs running around who aren't yours and are assumed to be handling other stuff (mostly each other)
buoyant summit
buoyant summit
lmao
velvet raft
Not as crazy as you might think! Very nice, though.
buoyant summit
It fits in with the whole theme this character has for Premonitions And Shit
velvet raft
Cool find
bleak hazel
yeah, it's not unusual for a combat siddie to show up and go "I have WSAV (fists) and Heroic Essence Replenishment, my full excellency is 1.5 motes on average" so you aren't breaking anything with this but this is definitely a fun way to get lesser but still relevant bonuses for a relatively nerdy sid
buoyant summit
it also applies to Morbid Premonition and Heavenely Sentinel Eye
Both skills that shall see heavy use with her
velvet raft
Oh, I had a thought: so there's a set of short daiklaves in the lunars book that can be in Waxing or Waning state. One of the two daiklaves gets upgraded based on which state they're in. So I was thinking about these for an Immanent Steel Even Blade user, and I think it would be really cool if visually, the Lunar just had the two blades together sorta like a daisho and drew the one applicable to the current state
buoyant summit
Definitely an interesting idea
Tho you'd lose the clash benefits of dual-wielding
velvet raft
Mechanically there's no reason you can't draw both, so I figure this would mostly be an aesthetic thing
And given Even Blade lets you treat sheathed weapons as batons I think that still works
buoyant summit
lol fair
velvet raft
Man, unified XP costs has taken up all of my brain space
Everything feels so much more sensibly priced
tulip folio
I'm pondering more quick character stuff. Mostly 'should I do an enlightened jadeborn QC or some more mooky ones'. XD
buoyant summit
I do like the idea of my character having a tiny pattern spider familiar who keeps trying desperately to get her to report to the Bureau of Destiny
Like 'please girl we can give you therapy and a job that doesn't involve a deathwish'
prisma sun
I think it may undermine your concept a bit if she actually does know the BoD exists and can explain everything to her.
buoyant summit
Fair enough actually
tulip folio
Also: What do you think the size limit is on 'Legendary Size' vs 'Non-Legendary Size'? Buck Ogres are not legendary size and are pretty big.
velvet raft
Do you mind a Doylist answer?
prisma sun
An Elephant seems to be the smallest thing with Legendary Size
velvet raft
Because I would say the benchmark is, "does the fantasy of interacting with this being evolve specifically engaging with it As A Ginormous Thing?"
tulip folio
...yeah, this is likely 'Big and Tough but not quite Legendary Size'
next delta
An Elephant seems to be the smallest thing with Legendary Size
I think I've seen it compared to a particular species of rhino before?
velvet raft
An ogre is a big motherfucker who is big so that you can style on it
tulip folio
Basicly: Pondering where a war machine about the size of one of those Fire Nation Flamethrower tanks falls.
As like, they're big but they're not that big
And can get their ass kicked by a Sufficiently Cool Dude
next delta
I do like how Essence has two tiers of "large". Legendary Size seems to cover a lot of ground
velvet raft
The funny thing is that I'd give that "legendary size" in the AtLA universe
I wouldn't give it legendary size in Exalted
tulip folio
I think part of it is also the vibe I'm going for
The War Machine gets Legendary Size because it's a Cool Elite Machine, even if it's not a warstrider
The tank I don't because it's inherantly mookier
If that remotely makes sense?
velvet raft
Makes sense to me
tulip folio
Looks a fair bit so.
Unless that perspective is wonky
An african elelpant is like two people tall
These look more like 3x, maybe a bit more.
velvet raft
Makes sense to me
Especially insofar as Legendary Size makes the fight a lot harder if you don't have special stuff for fighting Legendary Size opponents, so if you want flipping the tank to be easy it's probably not appropriate.
next delta
Another way to think about it is "is this thing so large that it'd be remotely reasonable to grapple it without special magic"
tulip folio
Especially insofar as Legendary Size makes the fight a lot harder if you don't h...
I very much want people flipping the tank.
prisma sun
If there's supposed to be more than 2 of them in a scene I say not give them legendary size
because that's just a pain in the ass
next delta
For a tank, I think the thing to do is take the warstrider approach with gambits to inflict incremental damage. But obviously that's not ideal for a mook
velvet raft
You can also have "regular tank" and "the tank from OGRE" be different things, as I think Iki has suggested
tulip folio
Right now they have:
Weak Underbelly: The Dragontrack loses 4 soak and all Hardness while Prone.
So I want people flipping them.
next delta
I thought the magic part of doing full damage on a legendary sized target was pretty generous? Like an artifact of even an excellency gets around it? But "with magic" is not terribly well defined
tulip folio
this has come up a few times and...yeah, the intended thing there is 'The dmaage has to be added by magic, not done by magic'
So like 'Thie charm makes me do +3 levels of damage'? Yes!
'This is a daiklaive' no
next delta
Huh, ok
tulip folio
Now, is spells damage added by magic, as it's literally all added by magic? WHO FUCKING KNOWS. I think yes because I like when combat magic can fuck up big things but others have reasonably said no.
next delta
Just peer into your heart and feel if it counts
tulip folio
And cool, this is going to give me 4 Jadeborn guys for people to use. The Mercenaries, their cooler but less long range version, the Dragontrack 'basic tank with a firewand turret' and the big fucker War Machine. None of them are Enlightened but they're all like...by mortal standards, pretty damn scary as they've got more in common with having to fight a Godblooded or First Circle Demon than either 'another mortal' or 'a full on exalt'.
next delta
Alternatively, you could make them legendary size but have lots of ways around the bonus
Like if you are standing on top of it or flip it over with an appropriate feat of strength or taking a negative to shoot through vision slits
tulip folio
I think I'll avoid legendary size and put that on the vehicle I plan to actually stat up like something PCs might use rather than a quick character. One of their Geomantic Trains. XD
It's got a very funny vehicle statline right now.
Speed: 0 (+10 Along Dragon Lines)
It doens't need rails but it can only travel along the dragon lines so it's inherantly kinda limtied in where it can go
next delta
(the most cop-out way that is popular in 3e is to be able to ignore the legendary size merit with an "appropriate stunt", which iirc is a way to avoid lethal damage when blocking instead)
velvet raft
Hm. Do y'all think it's plausible that in a small city with very few Dragon-bloods, if a scary anathema walked in, and then a second slightly-less-scary-probably-anathema walked in, the relevant authorities might recruit the latter to deal with the former?
tulip folio
Sure!
The Realm is entirely amenable to 'Hey, lets have our enemies fight each other'
next delta
How committed to the Immaculate Faith are they?
mighty rover
It's like Seven Samurai, except with only one samurai, and the samurai is a werewolf. it's like seven samurai except the ways that it isn't
prisma sun
Hm. Do y'all think it's plausible that in a small city with very few Dragon-bloo...
I think it depends on the Anathema in question
next delta
Because Gem doesn't terribly care about anathema-ness as an example
prisma sun
but otherwise "Yeah probably"
velvet raft
The first one is an Abyssal who isn't particularly hiding it, the second is an Infernal who isn't advertising it but does have, you know, a big shiny gold bow.
tulip folio
Also: How is 'Lightning Crossbow' name-wise when describing what is Legally Not A Railgun artifact in exalted? 😛
prisma sun
Isn't that already a thing?
velvet raft
I think we can go more elaborate
tulip folio
Ah, Lightning Ballistas are the siege weapon. A little too similar namewise
next delta
Only because it is exalted. Otherwise it would be pretty reasonable for the big and little version to have the same prefix, ha
fierce star
The first one is an Abyssal who isn't particularly hiding it, the second is an I...
This is in Gentian?
velvet raft
To the south in Melevhil
fierce star
ah
prisma sun
The first one is an Abyssal who isn't particularly hiding it, the second is an I...
An Infernal does make "This is a slightly less worse Anathema" a bit of a harder sell
fierce star
I always felt like Abyssals could probably reasonably coopt the Intou Heresy pretty easily
velvet raft
Ah, Lightning Ballistas are the siege weapon. A little *too* similar namewise
Proposal: thunder coil extender
velvet raft
I always felt like Abyssals could probably reasonably coopt the Intou Heresy pre...
That is exactly the plan
prisma sun
because an Infernal is much more just straight up what Anathema are
tulip folio
Proposal: thunder coil extender
That would be pretty cool.
velvet raft
I just need to get these two jokers talking
next delta
The death guy is probably more immediately concerning than a golden bow person with no additional context
tulip folio
To be fair, most people don't know what an infernal is.
Like unless he's actively Giving People Cancer, he's just Anathema
next delta
The Infernal also glows green. The sacred texts don't have any warnings about that
velvet raft
As far as they know, he's a guy with an artifact bow who is willing to cop to not being a DB
No anima banner yet
tulip folio
Hell, even if he's consorting with demons at the time...it's exalted. Every sorcerer is consorting with demons.
fierce star
Hmm... Melevhil is like, even between great forks and gentian but easier to get to from great forks
next delta
They might not even know he is anathema. There are lots of weird supernatural beings in Creation
fierce star
yeah they're probably sus of abyssals there given GF's history with the HEron
tulip folio
Exigents and such are not Inherantly Anathema etc.
The Immaculates put up with several sorts of them like the Architects
prisma sun
The Scavenger Lands know Abyssals are a thing at this point considering there's like 3 of the Deathlords out there
next delta
Is this the ancestor court worshipping place or no?
velvet raft
I think they suspect he might be anathema but he's not squatting in a local teahouse scaring the shit out of people
buoyant summit
random question
fierce star
Gentian is the 'immaculate faith but also ancestor worship' place yeah
anyway I htink the setup works, gkat
buoyant summit
are familiars of Sids immune to their arcane fate?
tulip folio
are familiars of Sids immune to their arcane fate?
They are, yes. They're part of a very small list.
velvet raft
And yeah, this isn't taking place in Gentian, but in the city south of it and north of Great Forks.
The actual body of the narrative is in Gentian
buoyant summit
Cuz I had the idle thought of giving my character a talking lion of origin as a 3 dot and wonder if one of those has remotely any chance of knowing what a Sid is
Or if they'd just go 'girl why does everyone barring very specific people never recognize you?'
next delta
And yeah, this isn't taking place in Gentian, but in the city south of it and no...
I think it is pretty reasonable to be more concerned about the Abyssal and to not think about the other guy being anathema too hard then, yeah
velvet raft
"Plausibly deniable request to a solar for help" (it was not a solar)
prisma sun
At the very least they've probably already put in a request for the Wyld Hunt, I'd imagine
tulip folio
Titan Shattering Bolt (5m, 1wp; Supplemental; Instant; Essence 3) A Withering or Decisive attack the War Machine makes with the Thunder Coil Crossbow is unblockable and doubles 9s on damage rolls. The stress of using this charm prevents the Thunder Coil Crossbow from being used until it receives maintenance, a process that takes several minutes of downtime.
'I only get one shot at it but you're gunna fucking notice it'
velvet raft
Oh, Gentian is also funny because in addition to the ghost-friendly heresy there's sects of the Immaculate Order and the Immaculate Faith from Lookshy, and all three kinda hate each other
next delta
Do you want it to be crossbow shaped? Because I feel like "Thunder Coil Rail" sounds cooler
tulip folio
That's fair! I'll play about with the name.
fierce star
I fucking love Gentian
velvet raft
Yeah, I started reading about it and realized "I gotta do something with this"
fierce star
I have a Lunar that still believes in the Intou heresy/was an immaculate exorcist in her mortal life
next delta
Oh, Gentian is also funny because in addition to the ghost-friendly heresy there...
Got to get that weird Immaculate Faith offshoot from the dreaming sea in there too
fierce star
I do really appreciate that ex3 made it much more clear that the Immaculate religion is excactly as fractious and split as any RL one is
Faith/Order/Intou/PUre Way being the main ones
("Of the dragons or from the dragons?" still canon too)
next delta
That's fair! I'll play about with the name.
Honestly, just calling it "Thunder Coil" works pretty well
tulip folio
A lot of exalt types have some way to block unblockable and it cuts the war machine off its main gun but not everything can do so. Titan Shattering Bolt for example is going to make some Abyssal real sad with his Thousand Corpse Colossus. It's got enough health levels it won't die but mr 'I have parry 7, evasion 1' is not having a nice time.
velvet raft
I have a Lunar that still believes in the Intou heresy/was an immaculate exorcis...
Here With The Chains is going to walk in and be like "I do not care about your religion but I believe in ghosts' rights, and also ghosts' wrongs, in the sense that when ghosts are involved and someone has been wronged I will beat somebody else senseless"
fierce star
lol
velvet raft
"Am I hitting a ghost? Am I hitting a living person? I am not particular. Justice is blind."
fierce star
(It's my Carrion Bee lunar, too, and carrion bees are an underappreciated horror animal)
velvet raft
fight the powa
The Lunar is going to be a book thief No Moon from Great Forks, but I gotta figure out their spirit shape
prisma sun
Stereotypically I would imagine them as an owl
tulip folio
...Hmm...I should check out terrestial exalts for any 'fuck up battlegroup morale' charms.
velvet raft
Stereotypically I would imagine them as an owl
You know this would be very funny given they're a book thief that cannot read, and owls are known to not be especially clever animals in reality
velvet raft
(He is actually quite smart but has no formal education whatsoever and even his sorcery is essentially learned by ear)
tulip folio
So in very funny things - Fire Projector Siege weapons don't have the flame tag
So you add strength to their damage and they're terrible at short range.
velvet raft
Hmmmmmmmmm
tulip folio
Actually, none of the siege weapons have a tag that prevents strength being added
...I think Arms of the Chosen might have been poorly written
velvet raft
Can't believe it
tulip folio
Went to check out thier 'using siege weapons for Demolition' rules.
bleak hazel
are familiars of Sids immune to their arcane fate?
the list of things that are immune to Arcane Fate is in the Arcane Fate section
bleak hazel
A lot of exalt types have some way to block unblockable and it cuts the war mach...
TCGs are such outliers in stat terms, it's hilarious
they can straight-up facetank total annihilation and still have 15 health levels left
I have no idea why they are that tough
velvet raft
Well that's a thousand whole corpses, Misc! /j
tulip folio
They've got like 10 health levels more than an honest to God warstrider
velvet raft
1 warstrider < 1,000 corpses
bleak hazel
it does mention they can "wrestle warstriders to the earth"
I can believe it, even with a deeb pilot that's a rough 2v1
and TCGs are a damn sight easier to build
velvet raft
Trading card games ...
tulip folio
Just gotta kill yourself a decent village and you're good to go
bleak hazel
I have been tempted to make an abyssal artifact that lets me box up things in pocket dimensions so I can play Trazyn the Infinite with a TCG in a box
let me just topdeck my goliath
fierce star
it gets stolen by the gambling exigent who believes in the heart of the cards
velvet raft
Isn't there a necromancy spell that lets you do a pocket dimension?
tulip folio
There's a ghost storing artifact that could be used.
buoyant summit
Is this a good charmset for a spy endings sid?
Inevitable Pursuit
Heavenly Sentinel Eye
Morbid Premonition
4 Even Blade Charms
Marvelous Inclusion of Details
Unwritten Words Revelation
Ox-Body
Descending Secrets Horoscope
Oracular Wisdom
Hot-Eyed Snake Whispering
Gilded Cage Entrapment
Soft Presence Practice```Looks cool to me. Misc may have more thoughts.
velvet raft
Oh Karen I decided to try to write a fic with Here With The Chains and Red Evening Sky in it
buoyant summit
Very much intending Bene Gesserit Who Can Stab You Real Good
velvet raft
So a Bene Gesserit
nova yew
buoyant summit
Do they have combat training?
nova yew
Oh Karen I decided to try to write a fic with Here With The Chains and Red Eveni...
Oh nice!!!!
lament owl
Necromancy has a lot of weird space warping spells, because the labyrinth is really important
bleak hazel
Is this a good charmset for a spy endings sid?
```Prior Warning
Inevitable Pursu...
looks good to me, I'd personally have some more craft in here but you do you
I suggest getting Expected Pain ASAP
Prior Warning is lame, almost entirely because Expected Pain has the power budget of like 2.5 charms
ambush negator and emergency precog is a godsend
buoyant summit
I have dropped Descending Secrets for Expected Pain
velvet raft
He snorts faintly, unfastens the boy from his back and takes his seat.
does typing "boy" instead of "bow" count as a freudian slip considering the bow in question is Emerald Sunset
nova yew
HAH
mighty rover
lol
velvet raft
“Green sun prince,” he corrects in overwrought indignation. She rolls her eyes and neglects to say anything further, so he goes on. “Truthfully, very little. A few men from the city council approached me not long after I arrived, suggesting that there was a dangerous Anathema in Melevhil, but that if it could be moved along peacefully and the neighborhood spared an encounter with the Wyld Hunt all the better for everyone involved.”
Okay, I think that seems about right
velvet raft
Exchanges that happen when talking to a Sail-primordial Infernal
fierce star
the fish call me mommy sometimes
nova yew
the fish call me mommy sometimes
Uh huh
nova yew
fierce star
lmao
buoyant summit
Why is it that Sids can use necromancy? Wouldn't the Maidens be seriously incentivized to render their Exalts incapable of it, seeing as it fundamentally produces enemies of fate?
fierce star
I mean, sidereals are allowed to mess with wyld/fae stuff, a major SMA is implied to (or was in it's ex2 writeup) be a memetic weapon the fae afflicted on dreaming sidereals for the purpose of weakening them against the forces beyond creation, except it went horrilby wrong (for the raksha)
marsh garden
i thought it was only because the Abyssal Exalted are alive as [the dead] that they're enemies of fate?
and regular ghost bullshit is just
fierce star
also there is a difference between an enemy of fate and a creature of darkness, too
marsh garden
regular ghost bullshit
fierce star
besides, sidereals also have a sort of pragmatism about them
using the enemy's tools against them is completely kosher
bleak hazel
Sids also have the ability to de-enemy of fate the ghosts that are enemies of fate
spectres are all doomoids but regular ghosts aren't
gently nudge towards lethe
buoyant summit
lol
bleak hazel
also, it's extremely unspecified to what extent an exaltation's patron has fine control over how their Chosen come out
and generally hinted that they don't have very much, because Exigent-creating gods tend to get what they get
buoyant summit
Fair nuff
lament owl
Hey two questions
Do we know if Liminals are attribute based or ability based?
Do we know what Liminal anima banneers are like?
next delta
Essence have sketches of answers to those but, particularly the latter might change
They are attribute based
lament owl
huh
next delta
They get more dead looking as their anima increases
The Child of Blood is born from desire, greed, and ambition. She is a great orator, painting a future where her audience has exactly what it always wanted. When she spends too much Essence, her skin takes on the pallor of the grave, her eyes become blood-red, and dark water drips from her body.
As an example
nova yew
Immaculate order dogma or something
marsh garden
i love the edit of that that's just [Purple Baby]
lament owl
> The Child of Blood is born from desire, greed, and ambition. She is a great or...
huh interesting
I wonder if The Children Of Blood tend to be "I made a Liminal on purpose as a joke"
next delta
Oh, there is also this:
Liminals have five aspects. They have sepulchral aspect markings. The Liminal’s body changes and exhibits the call of the grave when they spend too much Essence, revealing them to be patchwork corpses. Their anima banners are similarly gruesome, swirling displays of luminous muscle, ethereal blood, and dark soil.
velvet raft
Why is it that Sids can use necromancy? Wouldn't the Maidens be seriously incent...
They're pretty bad at it, being capped at Ivory Circle
But also, neither Sorcery nor Necromancy is an in-built feature of the Exaltation
tulip folio
First Circle Sorcery/Necromancy is also just like 'normal human' limits. So basicly every exalt gets that to some degree.
nova yew
yeah
velvet raft
Rather, the fact that Exalts can ascend to truly incredible heights in those areas reflects the transcendant nature of exaltation
nova yew
theyre not any worse at it than a normal human
velvet raft
Necromancy didn't even exist when the exaltations were created
bleak hazel
Sids are odd in this in that their absolutely bananas excellency makes them the best first circle necromancers
nova yew
theres not that many things that can go above ivory circle
bleak hazel
it's only once everyone starts rolling out second circle that they fall behind
tulip folio
Alchemicals are actually notable for having lower necromancy limits than a mortal human unless they get Apostate tech.
As without that apostate tech, they can't get any necromancy
velvet raft
Lunars, Solars, Infernals, Abyssals
nova yew
and strong ghosts
velvet raft
And strong ghosts
nova yew
extra spicy ghosts (deathlords) can go into void circle i guess which is cool
so thats where abyssals and deathlords shine
we're so cool :)))
bleak hazel
I admit I personally prefer second circle necromancy to sorcery and wish I could give my Siddie Hundred Shade Breath
possibly you can finagle a mirror spell since you usually can but I never bothered checking the exact restrictions
nova yew
theres not that many restrictions i guess beyond "its probably not gonna be based on your lower soul"
the restrictions im seeing at least in the abyssal book for making spells based on sorcery spells is like....dont create life
tulip folio
I think you'd likely find it tricky to make a precise mirror unless the mirror also swaps out the type of creature.
nova yew
yeah
bleak hazel
yeah, but thing-that-uses-those-mechanics is probably doable
velvet raft
Hundred Shade Breath is so good
bleak hazel
just need some kind of roughly hungry ghost level chump
nova yew
i plan to take it as my shadow circle control
tulip folio
That said: You could likely swap out hungry ghosts for an equally powerful statline and make it like...animating the earth as soldiers.
nova yew
when i eventually get there
velvet raft
Here With The Chains would take mortification of the hallowed soul as her control, I think
nova yew
its a really fun one
bleak hazel
necromancy can't do demons, healing or growth, sorcery is not particularly clear about what it can't do other than "no zombies"
velvet raft
All self-buffs, all the time
nova yew
necromancy can't do demons, healing or growth, sorcery is not particularly clear...
no time travel either-
bleak hazel
nothing can do time travel
nova yew
but yeah sorcery is pretty broad
i dunno maybe you can do like....animating the air itself to life?
maybe you make a cloud into a swarm of guys
bleak hazel
you know, if I could make a Thousand-Demon Goliath as a celestial sorceror I'd be all over that
nova yew
HAH
velvet raft
Sorcery honestly feels kinda ... scattered and unfocused, in its present state
bleak hazel
but summoning huge waves of chumps is more of a necromancy thing
velvet raft
Necromancy benefits from having very clear things it's about
nova yew
tbf sorcery is like
i think the broad umbrella for magic in general
sorcery is general sorcery and then youve got necromancy which is all the sinister fucked up underworld shit
velvet raft
So even with its smaller collection of spells, it has more interesting stuff
Because the devs knew what it was about
nova yew
i mean ill say i think sorcery has a lot of cool shit
but maybe its just cus i read it second
having come in from abyssals
tulip folio
As an appearance-focused character, the Bone Throne would so good for RiRi but also:
nova yew
heheheh
tulip folio
I've got a lunar with a plant-based version of the bone throne in sorcery. Where plants just grow up to form nature thrones for her.
bleak hazel
a giant pile of second circle spells will be in the sid companion, so hopefully there will be more fun stuff in there
coral wraith
Sorcery is great
tulip folio
...I do wonder what a replacement for 'zombies' would be for sorcery if they had a sorcery version of the thousand corpse colossus. Sorcery doesn't quite have a 'super expendable mook' summon.
bleak hazel
honestly so much of the Sid companion is global stuff that I'm almost wondering if it's just "we want to do a big supplement for all splats but we didn't have a kickstarter for it"
bleak hazel
...I do wonder what a replacement for 'zombies' would *be* for sorcery if they h...
elemental megazord?
spirits of earth, spirits of air, spirits of fire, animate my doom golem
fierce star
🤔 thousand sesseljae goliath...
tulip folio
...honestly, a silly idea - Since it takes crafting, make the guys crewing it mortals as you make a giant automaton that requires entire battlegroups of humans to function at full capacity.
velvet raft
I think Infernals should have a charm that lets them take Threaten actions with bureaucracy
marsh garden
what makes the sid excellency so good?
i've only really nosed around in their charms, not much else
marsh garden
oh wow
wise ocean
and any non-charm dice they can add means those TN manip techs are much more valuable
velvet raft
Their dice caps are also based on Essence, and so while low are universal
(Higher of 3 or Essence)
marsh garden
ah, i see
that is quite a bit lower, but i guess it doesn't matter when you're just increasing your hit rate so drastically
tulip folio
It's also why the average sid carries around like a dozen Exceptional Tools, as that +1 non-charm die is more valuable for them than for most people 😛
marsh garden
that does seem on-theme
sids seem so fucking bonkers good from everything i've been hearing
velvet raft
Sids also have ways to make all of this really efficient in terms of motes
fierce star
Sids are really, really good when you arrange for everything to go just right
velvet raft
They are very strong, but part of their strength is approaching things sideways
fierce star
and then a lunar you didn't anticipate comes busting through the wall with a grand goremaul and a refusal to take 'but fate said' for an answer
marsh garden
Sids also have ways to make all of this really efficient in terms of motes
i assume they get really efficient and/or general free excellencies?
bleak hazel
"I went somewhere else this morning" is their most iconic charm for a reason
Sids can theoretically make all their excellency mote costs 100% free for the duration of a fight if they get enough combo going
velvet raft
Like, remember, a solar can easily swing a dice cap of 10
A lunar can swing a dice cap of 10 with the right stunt
bleak hazel
applicable World-Shaping Artistic Vision specialty, full burn Ways of Exaltation set to Dex Alchemical, some kind of +1 defence form like Crane Form, Heroic Essence Replenishment
velvet raft
A sid swings a dice cap of 3-5
bleak hazel
+3 ongoing charm defence and they just keep hammering full excellency strikes into your face until you roll over and die
Siddies are very good boxers
velvet raft
applicable World-Shaping Artistic Vision specialty, full burn Ways of Exaltation...
Any reason for Dex alchemical rather than Full Moon?
bleak hazel
not really, gets you like 20% less wyld-hunted
velvet raft
Fair
bleak hazel
I use Water Deeb a lot myself because it's totally immaculate-OK and also gets you anima flux ping damage
which doesn't do much but is cute
but it only applies to MA rolls rather than all dex
velvet raft
I suppose actually alchemicals have more caste abilities
Fewer favored, and they're set
But 3 instead of 2
bleak hazel
sids seem so fucking bonkers good from everything i've been hearing
they're squishy, and weird, and need to be careful about scouting out enemy capabilities because if they play wrong they can get ran over before they can bring their bullshit to bear
a combat-loaded solaroid is ludicrously lethal and Sid abilities are mostly short on straight-up non-charm dice boosts compared to other splats
tulip folio
Also: I'm currently writing up a sorcery-version of thousand corpse as we speak 😛
bleak hazel
but if the sid gets to bring the whole blue deck against you, ideally after forcing you to burn a few dozen motes on patsies, you are probably fucked
the ideal opening line for a Sidereal to hear in a combat is "where the fuck did he come from?!"
velvet raft
Moonsilver gets you Wits + Dex + Appearance, which is very nice
bleak hazel
(the exception is Melee, Sid Melee is very good indeed and a little PAOC supplementation can go head to head with Solar Melee until the Sid runs out of willpower to fuel Harmony of Blows and their reflexive clash tech)
fierce star
So I'm vaguely hedging my bets here, but I noticed that none of kimbery's extant first circles were listed in the 'notable demon broods' section of infernals
velvet raft
Given how good Charisma is for sid charms
fierce star
so I might be making one up whole-cloth to use as my infernal's coadjutator
bleak hazel
what makes the sid excellency so good?
OK, efficiency maths:
Base maxed pool for a Solaroid or Lunar is 23: 11 dice from att 5 ability 5 specialty 1, 2 dice from a level 1 stunt, 10 dice from their excellency. This gets you 11.5 average successes for 10 motes.
Base maxed pool for an E1-3 Sidereal is 16: 11 + 2 +3, but they succeed on 5s, which gets you 16*0.7=11.2 sux for 5 motes
an E4-5 sidereal can add 1-2 more dice to their excellency, reaching 11.9 or 12.6 sux respectively
marsh garden
the numbers don't lie
velvet raft
Sids can also sometimes worsen enemy target numbers
Not with excellencies, but with other bullshit
velvet raft
Some of their slick defensive charms involve worsening the TNs for damage rolls
Sids are pretty solid at "hit me? you didn't hit me"
bleak hazel
the Sid Excellency is also just extremely efficient because for 2 motes you can go from 6.5 average sux to 9.1
marsh garden
none of this is convincing me that sids aren't cracked lol
it is convincing me that it would be exciting to play one, though
bleak hazel
they're really good until the lunar ignores all your swings with 20 soak + postsoak damage reduction + 20 health levels and then eats you
velvet raft
The thing is, they just don't have the raw force that solaroids or lunars can throw at a problem
bleak hazel
they're squishy, they have smaller mote pools than their peers until higher essence levels and their defensive excellency is worse
same cost as everyone else but can only add 3 to static values until E4/5
so ideally they need to be too annoying to kill until their enemy runs out of puff trying to throw big excellencies at a high defence
see: the entire combat strat of Sid Melee
personally I would not set an E1 sid against an E1 Lunar or Solaroid with much confidence, but I would at E3
where you have early SMAs, enough XP for defensive emergency buttons and a healthier mote pool
Sid stuff seems more bullshit than just turning into a T-rex but it usually isn't
velvet raft
Alright, finally giving Infernal bureaucracy a proper read-through and I find this immensely funny
bleak hazel
(also your average E3 celestial doesn't know what a sidereal martial art is and as such does not know the tactical counter to being thrown into a mirror and tapdanced on, which can sometimes get you wins through enemy misplays)
nova yew
Alright, finally giving Infernal bureaucracy a proper read-through and I find th...
holy shit
velvet raft
Alright, the impression I'm getting so far is that it's very ... "saint of the marketplace"?
bleak hazel
unsurprisingly I really like Infernal Bureaucracy
velvet raft
Like here's another
chilly sluice
Alright, the impression I'm getting so far is that it's very ... "saint of the m...
I remember seeing one that was like "you can put an instill roll in a piece of currency, and it affects everyone who trades it"
and then later put that into a specific market in general
bleak hazel
Hell Wizard Money Gang is about a third of the tree
velvet raft
It's got a big element of sitting at the center of the market and learning all things
fierce star
I'm definitely gonna pick up some bureacuracy to lure people into my ethical brothel/women's shelter/pleasure barge/cannibal cult.
my infernal is going to have a thing for punishing people she views as 'evil' or beyond redemption
velvet raft
I really want to fit Presence in here, but I'm not sure what I'd drop
Or even move around
wise ocean
Tick lower awareness?
velvet raft
is that all you bought with bp/bxp?
Yes
marsh garden
velvet raft
BP's weird structure gives weird incentives
If using flat costs I would do this a bit differently
bleak hazel
are any of those favoureds just there for dots or charms you can have at E1?
if so you could move it to Presence
velvet raft
Archery, Lore, Occult, and Bureaucracy are non-optional
I could move Resistance I guess
Holy shit, invoking regulatory authority
Chejop: "Wait, let's hear this guy out"
It is very funny that Infernals have a bunch of charms that would make them really good at solving Heaven's corruption problems.
fierce star
Perhaps the implied sidereal-infernal teamup is what is really needed to solve Creation's problems
tulip folio
...huh, that's the Alch patriotism provoking display from e2 onwards.
velvet raft
Okay is it bad that my first thought on reading this was, "that's the haypenny from Animaniacs: Wakko's Wish"?
spring lynx
is it
buoyant summit
My first fellow in the game Im the Endings Sid in is a Dawn
nova yew
oh boy
buoyant summit
There goes feeling like Im gonna be useful in combat xD
Single Point stylist as well lmao
velvet raft
So in Wakko's Wish, the village has had all of their money taxed away by the king
No one can do anything
bleak hazel
with melee + SMA you can blow up a Single Point dawn pretty effectively at mid-essence
but unfortunately you do need specific combat components
(specifically, you need to clash the fuck out of him to survive the nova strike and then ideally tag him with Sequential Essence Disruption to knock him out of Form)
velvet raft
And Wakko makes a wish on a star for two haypennies at the end of the movie
And these haypennies restart economic activity in the community by allowing people to exchange them for goods and services
spring lynx
also i'm pretty sure it's ha'penny
velvet raft
It's this bizarrely effective parable about what money actually does
marsh garden
i just realized - i have no idea what "caste/favored attribute" means here
spring lynx
yeah that tracks with the general animaniacs... everything
marsh garden
is that just a lunar thing?
velvet raft
Lunars and Alchemicals
marsh garden
gotcha
spring lynx
oh, alchs are attribute-based now too?
next delta
Chejop: "Wait, let's hear this guy out"
I was a bit surprised at this one since Infernals are usually so negative (also I think Solars have a very similar charm?)
spring lynx
i admit, never got very deep into alch mechanics
marsh garden
hm. would y'all cal an Occult specialty of necromancy too broad for an abyssal? i had mine as just ghosts, but i was thinking about how weapon specialties are basically just "always"
next delta
Or maybe it's Alchs that have a similar charm. At least the "you can't say you are lazy" part lol
merry arch
it's the equivalent of melee (swords)
marsh garden
my instinct definitely hews to the specific over the general, so i'm skittish about things exactly like that
because it doesn't really feel like a specialty to me if it covers everything i do lol
velvet raft
Specialties often cover a whole subcategory of actions within an ability
marsh garden
next delta
It doesn't help you know the secret weakness of a spirit or whatever (I think that is Occult?)
nova yew
it seems fine
velvet raft
I do wonder why they didn't give example specialties in 3e the way they did in 2e
nova yew
It doesn't help you know the secret weakness of a spirit or whatever (I think th...
probably
marsh garden
It doesn't help you know the secret weakness of a spirit or whatever (I think th...
would it not? since necromancy is uh
the dead
nova yew
and various magical creatures
velvet raft
Necromancy is a specific kind of magic
nova yew
and demons ig
next delta
I do wonder why they didn't give example specialties in 3e the way they did in 2...
clearly that was what crossed the word threshold and they had to cut it
marsh garden
oh, are demons considered spirits in exalted?
next delta
Demons and gods are spirits
merry arch
yes
nova yew
heh
velvet raft
Demons, gods, and elementals are all functionally lineages/political affiliations of spirit
next delta
I feel like Occult should be able to be used for introducing a fact but I think that's technically not RAW
velvet raft
Ghosts and fey are also spirits
nova yew
tbf i think gods have a bit more of a claim to being more than just a political difference
next delta
Oh, I didn't know fey counted
nova yew
since im given to understand demons and elementals are kinda part of like
the anatomy of primordials or yozi
while gods were creations
at least from my current understanding
next delta
Gods/Demons/Elementals all work pretty differently, yeah
velvet raft
Nah, elementals can get promoted in the bureaucracy just like anybody else
There's a fair amount of mutability
velvet raft
They're part of Creation, which is explicitly not Gaia's world-body
marsh garden
what is gaia's body, then?
next delta
Nah, elementals can get promoted in the bureaucracy just like anybody else
They don't get the change in the nature of their essence from changes in office like gods do though aiui
tulip folio
They change their essence via more conventional cultivation, yeah
nova yew
gods, as creations set to rule over parts of the world, do seem to still claim a bit more difference from the standard kind of spirit
tulip folio
Elementals can become lesser elemental dragons
nova yew
and demons, as anatomical traits, also are weird
fierce star
Gaia's body is Gaia, somewhere out there in the Wyld
tulip folio
And then greater elemental dragons (This is Generally Bad)
nova yew
the way elemental dragons were explained to me is that the big 5 were the component souls of gaia
so
fierce star
well, it's Somewhere
nova yew
that is where i got my impression that elementals were also part of that
velvet raft
Yeah, that is a common piece of fanon
next delta
Elementals can become lesser elemental dragons
Not just increases. For example, if a god of agriculture becomes a god of war somehow, their powers will become more warlike, while still maintaining some of the agricultural heritage
(it's why that southern war god has cattle related charms)
velvet raft
Elementals are linked to Gaia, certainly, but Creation is a collective enterprise
velvet raft
Like, The Dragon's Shadow is the source of colors
fierce star
the only elemental that's not an elemental are Metody, in fact, because Gaia and Cytheria told Theion 'no' when he wanted toa dd them to creation, so he said WELL FINE I'M ADOPTING THEM
nova yew
ARE THEY OR ARE THEY NOT LINKED TO GAIA
tulip folio
the way elemental dragons were explained to me is that the big 5 were the compon...
There's basicly a few things that fall under 'elemental dragons' and they're not all quite the same thing. Lesser Elemental Dragons are the 'final' form of many elementals and basicly chinese dragons, like the dragon king that Sun Wukong beat up.
marsh garden
i will wait for the discussion to be over so i can ask what y'all have decided is correct
velvet raft
They are not her souls
tulip folio
Greater Elemental Dragons are Godzilla
nova yew
if i keep getting conflicting information i will explode and then decide what is the real information without anybody's interference
velvet raft
First circle demons are also not part of the yozis' soul architecture
fierce star
Elementals are manifestations of Creation's elemental composition; they are related to Gaia in that she was most directly involved in creating them when the primordials were pinning creation together
next delta
Elementals sometimes get spit out of Creations err elemental processes. Im addition to be able to have children
nova yew
There's basicly a few things that fall under 'elemental dragons' and they're not...
nodnod
i see
fierce star
they are explicitly not gods, demons, nor devas, but some Other, Weird THing
nova yew
Elementals are manifestations of Creation's elemental composition; they are rela...
right yeah
makes sense to me
tulip folio
The Five Elemental Dragons are the patrons of the dragonblooded. They're not normal elementals.
nova yew
so
the elemental poles
created by gaia yeah? thats my understanding
am i somehow incorrect about that part
were the poles also just already there
are they a lineage of poles
fierce star
partially by Gaia, but also the other primordials. Group effort, as previously mentioned.
velvet raft
It's not 100% certain that she was their sole creator, but she was certainly heavily involved in creating the elements
nova yew
yes yes the primordials worked together on a lot of stuff
next delta
First circle demons get created by a higher tier demon/yozi for a specific purpose. (Higher tier demons are part of a primordials soul hierarchy).
I am not quite sure how gods work. I think they only get produced via procreation?
tulip folio
Autochtonn is the other 'almost certainly involved in their creation' primordial.
nova yew
and that all makes sense in my framework of things
tulip folio
As nothing really got made without him having some hand in it.
velvet raft
First circle demons get created by a higher tier demon/yozi for a specific purpo...
Re 1CDs: initially, but they're self-perpetuating
nova yew
which certainly implies that the delineation between various kinds of spirits is a little bit more than political cus some other shit is going on
tulip folio
Except Humans, who were formed by the other primordials stealing his work and making a shitty copy
next delta
Autocthon I think did the most work? At the very least he was involved enough to basically turn himself into a weird version of Creation
fierce star
Cytheria, too, as gaia's first spouse was probably involved.
nova yew
probably
fierce star
Karen: so the big thing is that uh. Spirits can change what they are, through various things. A Demon can become a God; an Elemental could become a Demon. It's not entirely political but it's not not political.
velvet raft
The political categories are ontologically meaningful
next delta
Re 1CDs: initially, but they're self-perpetuating
Oh, yeah of course. I remember the devs saying that part of the genre emulation was the ability for any intelligent being to have children with any other intelligent being lol
nova yew
The political categories are ontologically meaningful
ontologically meaningful is a set of words i might need explained to me
fierce star
Ghosts could... probably? Become a god? Or other type of spirit? but it would be weird edge cases even among weird edge cases
velvet raft
They have a physical reality, they determine things in the physical world
next delta
Karen: so the big thing is that uh. Spirits can *change what they are*, through ...
Wait, where is this stated? My understanding is that it's not how it works in 3e?
nova yew
gotcha
nova yew
Wait, where is this stated? My understanding is that it's not how it works in 3e...
fasdghjfgasdjkfgasdjf
so
im clearly learning
fierce star
I think there's a sidereal charm at the very least
nova yew
that i should not be paying attention to this chat lmao
bleak hazel
the application of adequate sorcery or splat charms can do that kind of thing, they can't do it by default
next delta
Like, yeah you can get a office in the celestial bureaucracy, but that's not the same as being a god
fierce star
also sorcery--yeah
liek it takes external power to do so, but it's fully possible
not unheard of but not exactly common
next delta
Ah, I guess that's fair. Just do some soul surgery
bleak hazel
elementals have many high-up posts in the celestial bureaucracy, especially in the bureaus that handle weather and in the Aerial Legion, Heaven's army
velvet raft
You can't just decide to be a different thing
nova yew
soul surgery feels like it should've been mentioned in the "becoming a different thing"
that one feels reelevant
fierce star
sorry?
bleak hazel
a lot of Yu-Shan's biggest supernatural muscle is in the form of a giant army of essence 6-9 Elemental Dragons
(and other things)
fierce star
Like, this is some deep lore stuff that rarely comes up in most games, that while metaphysically important isn't really
gestures
meaningful to 90% of players or characters
nova yew
well
velvet raft
At the same time it is a political affiliation, especially once you factor in "creature of darkness"
buoyant summit
with melee + SMA you can blow up a Single Point dawn pretty effectively at mid-e...
He's my ally, Misc xD
nova yew
i can see that i suppose
tulip folio
Ghosts could... probably? Become a god? Or other type of spirit? but it would be...
The Twin Monarchs are almost certainly not 'just' ghosts any more for example.
buoyant summit
I mean against enemies he'll mostly just kerblooie them
bleak hazel
He's my ally, Misc xD
do you or do you not want to stunt on him
nova yew
yeah the dual monarchs sure are gods/godlike
velvet raft
Creatures of darkness are literally just Enemies According To The Party Line
nova yew
though tbf nobody knows if the dual monarchs are "artificial" or if they were dead people once
genuinely that is an unknown in the book
fierce star
yeah, creature of darkness is a wholy political descriptor
it's 'sol doesn't like you'
buoyant summit
do you or do you not want to stunt on him
I have investment in a single MA with no melee lmao
velvet raft
They are entities the sun has designated as the opposition
tulip folio
You are On the Divine Shitlist
marsh garden
we should poke the unconquered sun's eyes out
bleak hazel
ah, so much for that
fierce star
five days darkness is a creature of darkness, for example, and all he is is the god of calibration
(and also a pretty chill dude)
nova yew
though tbf nobody knows if the dual monarchs are "artificial" or if they were de...
i can pull up the passage this is the one thing im somehow vaguely confident in
marsh garden
then sol shall become a creature of darkness
fierce star
I'm not sure if enemy of fate is purely political or not, that changed between editions
next delta
I think hypothetically anything could serve in the celestial bureaucracy since that's just political. Though it'd be hard for a demon since they aren't allowed to touch the ground
bleak hazel
the list of Generally Accepted Overtuned Combat Trees is Solar/Abyssal Melee/Brawl, thousand blades, single point, bear style and then righteous devil and black claw slightly further down
fierce star
I believe it's nonpolitical
marsh garden
what's a single-point stylist, though?
nova yew
bleak hazel
a martial artist focused on Single Point Shining Into The Void Style
marsh garden
ah
next delta
(which is why Hell's embassy flies in the air)
nova yew
in any case
velvet raft
what's a single-point stylist, though?
A miserable little pile of secrets
buoyant summit
ah
Single-Point Shining in the Void Style: conga rats, your sword has its own initiative track
marsh garden
bleak hazel
which is just "memetically strong katana - the martial art"
nova yew
i am going to do my own research into what the fuck a spirit is
fierce star
sorry
bleak hazel
broken as fuck unfortunately
marsh garden
Single-Point Shining in the Void Style: conga rats, your sword has its own initi...
i think we should shatter all swords maybe
coral wraith
single point shining into the void is a core book mistake
nova yew
its cool
bleak hazel
it is cool, though
nova yew
its just
coral wraith
It is cool though
fierce star
I tried to explain it as well as I could, which obviously wasn't well enough
nova yew
so many different almost contradictory sources hit me at once
fierce star
like ultimately a spirit is just a non-mortal being, if you kind of
nova yew
like i believe you
fierce star
distill it down to absolute basics
nova yew
the issue is i believe everyone else too
which means i dunno what to believe
so i gotta come to my own conclusions here
fierce star
if it's not human/mountain folk/exalt/niobaharan/dragon king/etc it's a spirit
next delta
Single Point took all the power from the multiattack focused corebook MA
velvet raft
if it's not human/mountain folk/exalt/niobaharan/dragon king/etc it's a spirit
Or any type of weird dog
A weird dog
nova yew
my previous framework was "ghosts are souls(ignore the lower soul whatever), elementals are kinda like demons but for Creation itself, demons are yozi shit, and gods were created by primordials to rule parts of the world"
chilly sluice
Ah Steel Devil
I believe a fixed Steel Devil is something that's coming in the Sid companion?
nova yew
so now i gotta see what to modify from that
feral cipher
the issue is i believe everyone else too
you should believe me
nova yew
https://tenor.com/o3jG96SIIQm.gif
dog
nova yew
you should believe me
derpghost im gonna kill you ❤️
feral cipher
if you knew how souls worked you'd know why you shouldn't do that
nova yew
im gonna forge you into soulsteel
velvet raft
I think the big takeaway is that a lot of distinctions are not as hard and fast as they first appear
nova yew
its messy
feral cipher
exalted ™
nova yew
but 'political' made me think 'ah these labels are primarily social' when, upon further inspection
they are not
bleak hazel
they are extremely not
velvet raft
Like, an exalt can leave behind a powerful ghost who subsists on ancestor worship
buoyant summit
But yeah I cant help but feel slight salt that I made what I think is a decent off-combat character whose combat kit is now irrelevant For the Dawn Has Entered the Chat
marsh garden
i think the trick is that almost everything in exalted that's political is also material, yeah?
nova yew
Like, an exalt can leave behind a powerful ghost who subsists on ancestor worshi...
sometimes they just subsist off being that powerful
like the deathlords
who are just also ghosts of exalts
bleak hazel
yeah but it's mostly not political
marsh garden
like high-concept politics are ontological forces
marsh garden
who are just also ghosts of exalts
oh, that wasn't the impression i got from the 3e abyssal book
bleak hazel
like, things are enemies of fate for big obvious reasons and that lets them do things they couldn't otherwise do and prevents them doing things they otherwise could
marsh garden
it was careful to not call them all exalts, just necromancers
nova yew
the deathlords are big deal ghosts
tulip folio
The true answer: Spirits are a type of fermented fruit or vegetable, generally consumed for religious or recreational purposes.
bleak hazel
that's not a political designation in anything other than name
nova yew
y'konw thats fair thats fair
it is also hilarious that ghosts get access to the depths of necromancy when mortals dont
ghosts just
get to be cultivators
marsh garden
but i dunno whether that's just the book being cagey or not
nova yew
ghosts get to powerscale
marsh garden
yeah it's based
bleak hazel
the deathlords are generally assumed to all be some form of Exalt ghost due to the nature of being notable Usurpation-era dead
marsh garden
"sorry gamers death's fucked, so the dead get powers you don't"
bleak hazel
certainly a few of them are ex-Solars, including Mask of Winters
(since Chejop recognises him in the Ex3 core closing fiction)
chilly sluice
oh, that wasn't the impression i got from the 3e abyssal book
3e has IIRC de-emphasized that the Deathlords are ghosts of First Age Solars
nova yew
you should join the underworld we're awesome
nova yew
certainly a few of them are ex-Solars, including Mask of Winters
my BOY
mask of winters is our boss in the game we're in
next delta
I think a bunch of them are ex-Solars but they wanted to leave it open for other exalts or weirder things instead saying all the deathlords are ex-Solars
bleak hazel
yeah
fierce star
They probably still are, but not always. One's implied to be an ex-sidereal, anothe ran ex-lunar.
marsh garden
yeah i never saw a single statement that any of them were even an Exalted, iirc
fierce star
but it's no outright statements aside form maybe masky
nova yew
yeah sure some of them could just be really really cool dead guys that were not solars
which is cool
theyre dead guys is the important bit
tulip folio
My personal bet is that Bishop was a sid
bleak hazel
strong possible that the Bishop is an ex-Sid since he's kung fu inclined and has a similar philosophical style, also strong possible that Dowager was a Lunar because she does a lot of shapeshifting
fierce star
The Dowager might have been a lunar, the Bishop maybe a sid, but the answer is ?????
tulip folio
Both because he's developed a SMA and becasue he's a fucking buzzkill
nova yew
bishop did invent a new martial art
fierce star
'who the fuck knows'
marsh garden
okay yeah fair he does have an SMA all of his own
nova yew
Both because he's developed a SMA and becasue he's a fucking buzzkill
he invented more than just an SMA!
theres another one that is a cool scythe style
velvet raft
ghosts just
get to be cultivators
Spirits in general do
bleak hazel
that one's not his, it's just spooky style
chilly sluice
wasn't the Green Lady also involved a lot in teaching him to create Albicant Sepulcher?
bleak hazel
nope
nova yew
Spirits in general do
yeah anyone who isnt a human
fierce star
IIRC in ex3 she showed up and he already had it and she went '... well fuck'
tulip folio
Most of them don't even know Green Lady is a Sid XD
bleak hazel
we know functionally nothing about Green Lady this edition except that she's still deep cover ghost infiltrator
bleak hazel
"gank the bishop" is one of those high-up objectives for Sid campaigns because it has a bonus objective reward of "new kung fu"
nova yew
thats awesome
bleak hazel
yes, the Bishop is the one non-Sidereal being who has invented an SMA and can teach it
fierce star
yeah it's like the one SMA that heaven can't teach right now
bleak hazel
which strongly suggests he was a Sidereal
nova yew
good for him
bleak hazel
one of two, Rakan also has his own style
nova yew
he's just that fucking cool
chilly sluice
Most of them don't even know Green Lady *is a Sid* XD
IIRC the Bishop knows, he just also thinks she's a guy Endings
unless that's 2e lore
fierce star
oh, I didn't know rakan had a special snowflake style
one of two then
I thik that's 2e lore
nova yew
i did not know it was an SMA because the book did not label it separately from the hungry ghost style
bleak hazel
there is zero lore about green lady interacting with any 3e deathlord
anything about Green is probably 2e lore
fierce star
but it's 2e lore that isn't awful so no reason not to bring it forward if you want to bring it forward
nova yew
the only indication is the prerequisite bit
wise ocean
how good is albicant for a punchsid, anyway
nova yew
it seems to use scythes mainly
bleak hazel
pretty mid, you're not huge on doom doom doom powers
it has fun moves but a lot of them are about being a raid boss
chilly sluice
I do find Albicant Sepulcher very funny
you just stand in place with your doom aura
bleak hazel
almost every move in it is some form of aura
they're all Simple charms too, so it's this big slow plodding style that steadily makes everything worse
fierce star
yet another martial art that's just aura farming and hype moments
chilly sluice
also getting to reflexively activate your shit when someone takes a swing at you is really funny
bleak hazel
anyway, killing the bishop is a high-level sid game objective because fighting him gets you free new kung fu
same for Rakan
buoyant summit
What style does Rakan have???
velvet raft
Fun fact: if an elemental’s essence gets high enough, they automatically become a dragon. They usually stop pumping their essence not long after, because going even further makes them become a dragon (natural disaster) and get locked in a basement
buoyant summit
Does it have stats?
bleak hazel
Chimerical [Redacted] of [Redacted] style
nova yew
anyway, killing the bishop is a high-level sid game objective because fighting h...
killing him sounds hard cus hes already dead
bleak hazel
some form of grand blasphemy against heaven
bleak hazel
will be in Getimian book in like, three years
tulip folio
Green Lady's general day among the deathlords:
Psycho Mantis: You must spend every day pretending to act like you're falsely letting on that you aren't not unbetraying someone you don't not purport to allegedly not work for but really do! How do you keep all this shit straight without having an aneurysm?
Revolver Ocelot: Practice.
do any of the non-falafel deathlords have 3e statblocks yet?
nova yew
see what happens after the bishop gets reborn from the dreams of the neverborn
marsh garden
lament owl
my theory is that all of them have a Demiurgical Art
or whatever that thing the lion has
marsh garden
i would hope so
lament owl
where when they lose their last -2 they go Phase 2
marsh garden
the big necromancer fuckbois not all having phase 2 forms would be sad
fierce star
being fair revolver ocelot is my favorite battles sid
bleak hazel
I am somewhat annoyed that they made Gets (and slightly Abyssals, on Albicant only) able to get Enlightenment on SMA this edition, but at least we're going to end up with a fuckton of SMA
velvet raft
Gets finally clicked for me the other day
bleak hazel
partly this is because I think the War on Heaven is a stupid plotline for an entire splat and it should be like... five of them
fierce star
and gets have to like
be careful about how they spend essence to keep enlightnement, right?
'cause if they shift to thew rong flowing/still state they lose it
bleak hazel
while the others are doing the fun local timeline stuff that is actually interesting for them
nova yew
gets seem cool
