By default they're Wind-Fire Wheels that cut space
#Exalted
velvet raft
buoyant summit
...you conspire to make my character Vergil XD
fierce star
you are the storm that is approaching?
buoyant summit
buoyant summit
you are the storm that is approaching?
Adapting Waymakers into a sword literally makes Yamato
It can cut you at range, open portals to step through by cutting through reality
etc
velvet raft
I know very little about Devil May Cry
buoyant summit
What Sid teleport charms are there?
velvet raft
Athletics has a bunch of short-range teleports
buoyant summit
Cuz the second evo says it reduces the cost of anything that is, quote 'magic that lets her move without crossing the space between by two motes. '
velvet raft
Yeah, IIRC the particular charm it does mention is an athletics one
I think there might be some things in Dodge and Stealth?
buoyant summit
Everywhere-and-Nowhere Technique in Stealth
fierce star
hrm. 7 dots of mutations is probably too much.
buoyant summit
I kinda wanna have one of the talking lions from Origin as a Familiar...
merry arch
hrm. 7 dots of mutations is probably too much.
consider: it's funny
fierce star
I mean I am absolutely going to have my blood ape first mate princess carry me around becuase I have a fish tail instead of legs
merry arch
excellent
buoyant summit
lord lol
fierce star
her first mate is a blood ape (wearing the stereotypical 'slutty female pirate' outfit) and her quartermaster is a neomah (dressed like a chinese bureaucrat)
and I don't think blood apes are sexually dimorphous. If they even have physical sex, I think that's varied between editions
fierce star
yeah, but I know some editions have described them as being all-male, unless I'm gaslighting myself, which I may very well be
regardless, what I'm looking at is fins 3, serpentine, gills 3 and unusual hide 2. I might drop gills because sail charms more or less can solve that?
nova yew
I mean I am absolutely going to have my blood ape first mate princess carry me a...
excellent
fierce star
He refers to the character exclusively as Mum. "Borgos, be a dear and disembowel the prisoner for me?" "Yes Mum, right away Mum."
also I wonder if anyone's fully mapped out the known soul hierarchies of the yozis, with their canonical demons only. Every flowchart I've seen for it includes homebrew mixed in and doesn't like, seperate thet wo.
merry arch
im hoping we get metagaos demons i love my giant swamp dad
buoyant summit
...
why is the master sheet acting like making an ability 5 costs two extra xp...
tf...
fierce star
She'll adopt anyone and everyone
she's going to adopt the other pcs
even the ones with mommy issues? (Every circle has to have at least one pc with mommy issues)
ESPECIALLY the ones with mommy issues
I have too much fun with kimbery's themes, karen
nova yew
HAH
nova yew
even the ones with mommy issues? (Every circle has to have at least one pc with ...
well, so far its held true
(i am the one with mommy issues)
(...former dynast so it was basically a given)
fierce star
former dynast is almost cheating for mommy issues, but it's a good theme
but yeah, with no more martial arts gap moe i'm insteading going ham on sorcery and sail.
fierce star
my main combat power: make tentacles everywhere and just leave 'em lying around
also as an aside to the most divorced infernal I'm pondering a lunar with a major investiture of infernal glory because the same lunar exaltation keeps reincarnating into people falling in love with the same second circle demon
limpid badge
I mean I am absolutely going to have my blood ape first mate princess carry me a...
It’s good civilization
fierce star
Infernal Mom is best civilization, even
She tells you to stop playing gacha games and drink your milk, and to make sure you get a full night's sleep syo you can grow up big and strong and free
prisma sun
also as an aside to the most divorced infernal I'm pondering a lunar with a majo...
We already got the one solar who keeps marrying the one dragon
So its got precedence
fierce star
yeah
limpid badge
Infernal Mom is best civilization, even
Oh I was talking about being princess carried bc im doing the same with my lazy infernal
fierce star
this is also fair
limpid badge
there’s some key intimacies that lead to this point
fierce star
i had in fact completely forgotten you'd done so and stole the idea from you lol
though for my infernal it's more 'she can't move on land' than 'is too lazy to walk', she's got a fish tail
limpid badge
i had in fact completely forgotten you'd done so and stole the idea from you lol
this is completely okay. like I said, it’s Good Civ
fierce star
yay
marsh garden
there’s some key intimacies that lead to this point
THIS IS RANCID MY GOD
it's peak
i aspire to cook goobers like the ones y'all keep posting about
fierce star
topple did you see my character's intimacy related to ligier
buoyant summit
i aspire to cook goobers like the ones y'all keep posting about
cook one and serve it bish (this is meant to be positive)
fierce star
it takes years of practice, exposure to rpgs man should not wont of, and a certain disregard for commonly accepted good taste
buoyant summit
My Endings Sid is a lil bebby Ronin Sid whose penchant for premonitions is going to only let her see futures of violence
merry arch
i made a fucked up stalker abyssal and she's the worst
merry arch
she stalks people and impersonates them, obviously
buoyant summit
Holy fuck
limpid badge
THIS IS *RANCID* MY GOD
she's doing so good. he runs the best little whorehouse in hell.
merry arch
Holy *fuck*
An Inescapable Shade Seeks Bleak Truths and Hollow Joys is not doing good
buoyant summit
she's doing so good. he runs the best little whorehouse in hell.
W O W I hate it
fierce star
i have an immaculate nun (intou heresy) lunar with the minor principle of "You know, since I'm anathema now, TECHNICALLY none of my vows apply~", proud of that one
buoyant summit
holy fuck lol
merry arch
An Inescapable Shade Seeks Bleak Truths and Hollow Joys is not doing good
she is a direct export of this character from lancer into exalted
she's extremely not doing okay
buoyant summit
All of my intimacies are rather straightforward and less
grandiose?
XD
OH GOD THE GUY FROM PERFECT BLUE?????
merry arch
yes
merry arch
bjork stalker is the biggest red flag there imo
buoyant summit
Oh I didn't eve know that was that guy lmao
limpid badge
*W O W* I hate it
if it helps this is layabouts only combat ability
buoyant summit
Oh some ties on my Ledaal are gonna become very funny in hindsight after the Station of Sacrifice
Cuz uh
limpid badge
this fucker don't even have dots in war. just throwing blood apes at the problem.
fierce star
those 2x3 character isnpiration things I always have trouble filling out
buoyant summit
they ain't gonna be a Ledaal no more
fierce star
I'm more used to the 'what I made, what the GM saw, what I played' tempaltes
dense verge
every problem can be evaluated by the number of blood apes required to solve it
limpid badge
those 2x3 character isnpiration things I always have trouble filling out
i find it best to just use it as a Vibes Tuner
merry arch
im mostly using itt to communicate a vibe
if you look at it and recognize characters and what their deal is you understand what the fuck is wrong with this woman's head
buoyant summit
Four of these intimacies are going to be irreparably changed by the last trial for the Heptagram
OH GOD BOTH OF MY DEFININGS
SHIT
FUCK
XDDDDDDDDD
merry arch
deeb moment
buoyant summit
deeb moment
Deeb whose sacrifice for the Station of Sacrifice to become a sorcerer is going to be them finally snapping and, being a 14 year old whose mother is uh... bad at being a mom, to forsake their whole ass House.
marsh garden
mommy issues...
merry arch
yes many such cases in the realm
marsh garden
there's an infernal in my upcoming game who snapped for mommy issues didn't-deeb-exalt reasons
i guess it's just ontological to db families
you gotta
limpid badge
the realm is built entirely on mommy issues thanks to Big Red being the Ultimate Mommy of Creation
fierce star
so many mommy issues
fortunately none of my infernal's kids have mommy issues* (*if they know what's good for them)
buoyant summit
mommy issues...
They do have mommy issues mother dearest has one; given her child permanent facial scars in full-contact unarmored sharp sparring, two; left them out in the cold winter for some minor infraction, a night of tribulation that resulted in their Exalting, and three; gave them their one birthday gift, ever, a century daiklave for use with their martial arts, seemingly as what's supposed to be their sacrifice at the Station and a symbol of letting go of their dedication to martial arts.
XD
marsh garden
buoyant summit
lol
nova yew
i think this is the only intimacy i'm really happy with so far
oh i love that
marsh garden
buoyant summit
Debating whether 'my family were servants of the Arajanas who all died when Rankar took over, that means the city must burn' is a like
reasonably intimacy
merry arch
yea u get to have big feelings when u have a great curse
buoyant summit
Yes but this is a Sid, the least straightforwardly bombastic exalt
Or am I reading Sids wrong
fierce star
Ex2's iconic serenities had a main motivation of 'If I beat up all evil people, then everyone will be at peace! That's serenity, baby!"
merry arch
sids are many things and while subtlety is a key part of it they are still prone to big feelings like all the other demigods
fierce star
also yeah noir is another way to go for siddies
The city walked in like a woman who was all leg
bleak hazel
Rival has some really big daddy issues, which is impressive for someone who was orphaned at an extremely young age
buoyant summit
Holy fuck Misc lmao
bleak hazel
Sids have different things to agonise over but they still do it
buoyant summit
I suppose I could/should Count of Monte Cristo it...
bleak hazel
if you aren't struggling to sleep at night you aren't Siderealing hard enough
like, example
fierce star
"This city is evil. It used to mean something, it used to stand for something. Now it stands for the mad dreams of one man. It'll never recover; this whole damn city must be purged, burnt to the ground. Maybe something good will grow back from the ashes."
bleak hazel
here is May Blossom, Ex2 iconic Sidereal
her "boyfriend" literally cannot remember her, she just shows up and basically jumps on him every so often, which is like one of five almost equally unhealthy ways of dealing with Arcane Fate
that's just the entry level stakes
fierce star
(also I dunno if it's just me or if it's medium preference or what, comics being better than short stories for this, but I thik ex2's iconics are stronger than ex3's)
with MAYBE the exception of lunars?
bleak hazel
you layer all the big exalted emotional drama on top of the two-part punch of a) you are so incredibly crushingly alone and b) if you fuck up, the world pays
and yeah the Ex2 iconic sids are way better
the Ex3 deebs are significant improvement, though
buoyant summit
"As far as Gem knows, character name died with her family. All the easier for me to light the torch that burns the city down."
prisma sun
Rival has some really big daddy issues, which is impressive for someone who was ...
Is it daddy issues if it's you
buoyant summit
Is the current attempt
prisma sun
can you be your own abusive dad
bleak hazel
eh, it's a father figure
buoyant summit
Holy fuck, Voy lmao
fierce star
also sometimes you just start with a gonzo fucking base character idea and it goes form there
bleak hazel
so's Rival, he has two highly contradictory intimacies towards Gleam
no idea which way it'll resolve
fierce star
like my 'house mnemon made a clone of the scarlet empress to use as a 'reclaim the throne' panic button but she never exalted as a dragonblooded' character concept
buoyant summit
My character's mentor left her a daiklave and she said 'cool, gonna paint it red with Rankar's blood'
'Fuck your job offer byeeeeeeee'
bleak hazel
my Endings is a very boring professional Exalt
fierce star
I've got a few ideas for how she could go, but usually it's abyssal
bleak hazel
my Abyssal has a major grudge against House Ragara and a minor tie of professional respect to them as well, because he runs a cultivation auction house
Rival has his own internal dramas but less of them are about slaughtering his enemies and salting the earth
marsh garden
where should i look to learn about deeb houses?
bleak hazel
the deeb book
buoyant summit
Man I just thought of a *really* dark scene for her
cw for mention of self-harm ||Once Gem falls she starts having Premonitions of harming herself and starts to do it as she's come to fully trust them, and then she has a premonition of suicide, which she confirms through her Endings power.||
marsh garden
i'm told that the comics often have good characterization, but is it just deeb book?
buoyant summit
I think there's room to talk about self harm in ttrpgs which is why I still posted it but also oof
bleak hazel
the 2e deebs were extremely weak, they almost entirely existed to be useless meat for Solar revenge fantasies
buoyant summit
Jesus Christ, topple
bleak hazel
and their iconics were just five random deebs
buoyant summit
<XD
bleak hazel
read the 3e deeb book and maybe Heirs to the Shogunate
marsh garden
bleak hazel
unique among Ex3 splats, they actually have a novel
buoyant summit
vibrate eyes at a semi-artful depiction of ||my character committing suicide||
XD
marsh garden
the key word is artful!!
bleak hazel
haven't read it myself
WFHW is fine for an intro, though
and the chapter fiction is worth reading in order since it's the best of all the Ex3 books
marsh garden
is silence of our ancestors a 1e or 2e book?
buoyant summit
read the 3e deeb book and maybe Heirs to the Shogunate
TEPET EJAVA, THE ROSEBLACK, HEIR TO THE SCARLET DYNASTY!!!!
bleak hazel
TEPET EJAVA, THE ROSEBLACK, HEIR TO THE SCARLET DYNASTY!!!!
she's like a D tier contender, get this shonen shit out of here
my first Endings actually had a minor tie of one-way rivalry towards Ejava purely because they met once and he thought she was a dick
buoyant summit
PISTOLS AT DAWN
bleak hazel
no further interaction occurred
please, she already got all of 2e setting up an incredibly implausible Mnemon vs Roseblack fight as the only relevant bit of the succession war
buoyant summit
Ejava is my favorite Exalted character because I'm basic
bleak hazel
random wood deeb officer #6000 does not need any more glazing
mighty rover
hello exalted pnet i bring Infernals slander
bleak hazel
I am glad people are getting into proper shitposting about Exalted splats
eagerly awaiting the like 10 minute long Exalted Dracula Flow
fierce star
yesssss
buoyant summit
IT'S A GOOD IDEA
I will say, the part that makes this edge into slightly icky is that
Sidereal premonitions are glimpses into fate
marsh garden
oh, i'm sorry!
marsh garden
oh okay lmao
marsh garden
hm, is this a kind of purely self-fulfilling prophecy?
buoyant summit
So overall, if this scene happens
The reason she Exalted is to topple Gem to serve fate, then ||commit suicide|| so someone else can Exalt
buoyant summit
Which is I think generally farther than Exalted goes to be dark as shit XD
bleak hazel
eh, it's not unheard of
buoyant summit
What?
bleak hazel
one of the major NPC sids is notable because she shot her girlfriend dead in a political dispute
buoyant summit
w o w
bleak hazel
Exalted has not generally shied away from such things
fierce star
yeah
coral wraith
re: Sidereal big feelings, in Grinning Mask's case its a very large helping of imposter syndrome
prisma sun
I do think Sids wouldn't want their members comitting suicide
bleak hazel
although Ahn-Aru is an outlier by Sid standards and usually there is a strict rule against Sids killing each other that holds effectively every time but that
fierce star
previous editions it was often for shock value, but a lot of the time it coudl still hit well, and ex3 just... doesn't shy away from it, but doesn't really over use it anymore
buoyant summit
They wouldn't, but idk if they really get a say
fierce star
ex2's 'darkest as shit' wasmostly in lunar elder backstories
buoyant summit
Especially since she's a rogue in a cross-splat party with no other Sids
fierce star
I mean, elsewhere too, but that was the high concentration
prisma sun
So is her own plan to commit suicide or are other people telling her to?
I'm confused
marsh garden
damn, and i thought i was being a bit spicy with a teenager getting partially dismembered and then hanged
shooting your partner gets rough
buoyant summit
So is her own plan to commit suicide or are other people telling her to?
She's receiving Endings Caste premonitions of cw ||her self harm and suicide||
prisma sun
My Deeb lost his arm, all his friends and most of his facial tissue in his backstory
prisma sun
Oh well gotcha
buoyant summit
So like depends how capital F Fate works
buoyant summit
Oh yeah the Maidens
fierce star
a lunar elder that no longer exists ine x3 but still one of my favorite ones is Tamuz, a lunar elder who is very gay but who's first age solar mate (a woman) abused him, mentally, physically, and sexually, to the point of being outright gynophobic/misogynist... as a gut fear reaction that he recognizes is unfair to women because it's not their fault his first age mate was like that, so despite his fear and distaste for them does his best to overcome his trauma and not treat them unfairly.
He was also the reason the Delzhan and CHiaroscuro were the way they are. But he was taken out of ex3 because they moved away from the thousand rivers stream project and that was kind of Tamuz' whole thing at a broad level
prisma sun
People in the BoD have to decide something is going to happen, then go out and make it happen
The only real exception to this are the Maidens
But it's more, the instant they check something, it becomes locked in
bleak hazel
fate has slight nudging powers, but of literally everyone in existence, Sids are the most likely to see Auspicious Prospects for X ping and go "nah"
prisma sun
But if they do not look, the future remains unwritten
buoyant summit
She could go nah
But she trusts her premonitions and in this scenario has gone full deathwish on Gem
So is 'primed' to take stuff at face value on the fate front
bleak hazel
Fate is causality/physics/etc. but running on a kind of narrative logic, which is why Sid charms work as they do
Destiny is the collective aggregate of Heaven's plans for the future, which are determined via celestial bureaucracy
if the plans are fulfilled, it strengthens Creation against all the orrible alternate doom dimensions chewing away at it
the wyld, the underworld, etc.
if the plans fail, the opposite
which is why Sids have the primary task of enforcing destiny for the good of all (theoretically)
buoyant summit
So would the force acting upon her in this case be Fate or Destiny?
bleak hazel
and why the determination of destiny is such a huge bureaucratic task, since even leaving out all the corruption and so forth
since if you pick ridiculous impossible utopian plans repeatedly and then fail to bring them about with the collective work of Heaven's gods, sids and reality-warping nudging everyone is fucked
bleak hazel
So would the force acting upon her in this case be Fate or Destiny?
neither, really
fierce star
since if you pick ridiculous impossible utopian plans repeatedly and then fail t...
(See: The Vision of Gold)
bleak hazel
you can get precog of "Gem will be destroyed" but destiny has no power over Sids and they warp fate as easily as breathing
they can decide that it will not be so and go punch the offending problem in the face repeatedly
buoyant summit
I am basically asking if Caste premonitions gaze into Fate or Destiny
bleak hazel
which might require killing like 500 demon princes or something but it's doable
Auspicious Prospects is explicitly checking what the current relevant destinies are for XYZ
buoyant summit
Got it
bleak hazel
so Bureau sids understand this as "let me check the bureaucratic internet's committed plans" but admittedly a Ronin might not
prisma sun
Saturn might have seen that you are going to die, and will make her sign at you soon.
But at that point your suicide has global/universal implications
buoyant summit
My rogue sid is going to start to think, in her limited understanding, that she is legitimately precognitive but that these things will happen
bleak hazel
Sids also kind of carry fate with them, which is why you can use fate-based powers on demons and abyssals and so on that are outside of Fate
but that's not usually important
buoyant summit
Not that she can change them, necessarily
bleak hazel
it's just why you can go "no, you are FUCKING DEAD" to a deathlord and hit them with Greater Sign of Endings for +damage against doomoids
prisma sun
My rogue sid is going to start to think, in her limited understanding, that she ...
She is legitimately precognitive but the problem is that she lives in a world of people who are designed in a tube to say fuck determinism
bleak hazel
including her
prisma sun
yes
buoyant summit
She doesn't know what the fuck that is tho, she's explicitly a rogue
bleak hazel
note: auspicious prospects doesn't tell you current course of events, just what you should be trying to make happen as a Sid
so it's an odd kind of precognition
prisma sun
Someone in the BoD is probably sprinting full speed towards your Sid
bleak hazel
"precognition but only if we [heaven] win"
buoyant summit
l m a o
prisma sun
"DO NOT FUCKING KILL YOURSELF I NEED YOU TO SIGN THIS"
bleak hazel
Heaven admittedly has more firepower than arguably any other single actor, it's just both sclerotic and overstretched
buoyant summit
Someone in the BoD is probably sprinting full speed towards your Sid
BURSTS THROUGH A WALL "NEVER KILL YOURSELF!!!"
bleak hazel
well, maybe the Realm
prisma sun
Really love the implications of that
buoyant summit
prisma sun
Realm invasion of Heaven let's go
bleak hazel
but the Realm is rapidly accelerating towards not being a singular actor anymore
buoyant summit
Exactly
Make it the Japanese invasion of Korea and go extremely poorly
The medieval one, to be clear
bleak hazel
I would bet on Ten Thousand Motherfucking Dragons against the Sids and the Aerial Legion honestly, but it would be really close and really painful even if they could find a way to actually bring all that force to bear against Heaven
buoyant summit
I mean Misc that is assuming various things
bleak hazel
we have precedent for such things and we all know the Usurpation was a an amazingly successful clusterfuck
nova yew
the wyld, the underworld, etc.
we're working on it !
bleak hazel
not every Sid is a fighter, they're still ten thousand exalts
fierce star
doesn't matter if enough of them have As In The beginning
buoyant summit
gets martial arts uploaded in their brain
nova yew
on destroying the world
buoyant summit
fair enough
bleak hazel
they don't have to learn the MAs
fierce star
(side note AITB is still my favorite nuke)
buoyant summit
They don't but they all possess the foundational knowledge of How To Deck Someone
bleak hazel
they probably have more fighters per capita than any other splat, but there are still people like Fulgent Melody who can't punch for shit
nova yew
not every Sid is a fighter, they're still *ten thousand exalts*
theres ten thousand sids?
bleak hazel
no, ten thousand realm-aligned dragonblooded
buoyant summit
Dragonblooded
buoyant summit
There are about 100 Sids
nova yew
its like 108 max right?
bleak hazel
100 sids max
buoyant summit
Accounting for 'fuck, one of us died and hasn't reincarnated yet.'
bleak hazel
one of them is Rakan Thulio, Archtraitor
fierce star
also arguably every DB has easy access to Kick People In Combat powers, as every aspect has a dawn ability* (*albeit earth's is war)
bleak hazel
and Rakan is perhaps the most powerful exalt alive
he is the last Divine Revolutionary
buoyant summit
one of them is Rakan Thulio, Archtraitor
nova yew
# "DO NOT FUCKING KILL YOURSELF I NEED YOU TO SIGN THIS"
lmao holy shit
buoyant summit
(I had to)
bleak hazel
look, Rakan no diffs preheresy Horus
buoyant summit
Misc
bleak hazel
Siege of Terra Horus maybe not
buoyant summit
Archtraitor...
tulip folio
Rakan used his incel powers to parry Saturn because she's a woman.
buoyant summit
No one laughs at my jokes 
prisma sun
I feel like it's valid to be Involuntarily Celibate when you find out that every one of your friends decided you needed to be divorced.
tulip folio
I know his motivation isn't 'Incel' any more but for a while it was and that's stuck with me.
bleak hazel
Rakan is apparently slightly unfavoured in a fight against Anys Syn
prisma sun
You would hope so
buoyant summit
realizes Paul Atreides is an inspo for this Endings
bleak hazel
but that's only because she is getting down from her throne as Queen of Battle, Most Punchy of the Punchy Exalts for this one and he does a bunch of other shit
bleak hazel
Paul would be a very bad Sid but Dune is good inspiration for Sids
fierce star
He will know your ways as if born to them...
buoyant summit
OH GOD HE EVEN HAS PRECOG AND VISIONS AND SHIT, FUCK
I MADE FUCKING PAUL ATREIDES
bleak hazel
the most classic Sid move is "fuck, why can that random chump in the important scene fight like a demon" so they are kind of bene gesserit coded
bleak hazel
they also have Force Decision, which isn't The Voice but it's not not the voice
buoyant summit
With this in mind, should I take my 3 dots in Familiar and put them in Cult/Followers instead <XD
tulip folio
I actually made 'parry Saturn's scythe' a defensive charm for a sma I did. Not full Coolio but still fun.
fierce star
exiled from gem, raised an army of sand people to cause this campaign's gemsplosion
bleak hazel
fierce star
actually rhi are you aware, uh, of gem's reputation
bleak hazel
I really like this one, by the way
prisma sun
That's it that's Exalted
bleak hazel
on the list for Rival
buoyant summit
actually rhi are you aware, uh, of gem's reputation
nope
prisma sun
oh that's really funny then
buoyant summit
I know it's ruled by Tyrant Man McGee but also know The Unreliable Narrator Exists
bleak hazel
gem is memetically about to explode
fierce star
yep
prisma sun
Gem is the city that is destined to explode yeah
buoyant summit
Oh I'm the tinderbox
fierce star
it is the iconic Doomed Major City
buoyant summit
I've made the tinderbox, huh
bleak hazel
to the point whenever "do X to a city or city-sized area" tech is discussed Gem is used as the template
prisma sun
more like you decided your character lives in the bomb factory
that's about to get attacked by a balrog
bleak hazel
if the Exalted fandom has anything to say about it, the Maidens gave Sids Neighborhood Relocation Scheme because they knew they'd eventually need to dump that shithole somewhere inhospitable after it exploded
or possibly before
fierce star
Gem is not allowed to have a happy ending
buoyant summit
Let me forward the pitch or something hold on
fierce star
(except when it does because exalts gonna exalt)
bleak hazel
I have an E5 Journeys build that is explicitly designed to orbitally drop Gem into Hell
literally
it can pick the city up and deep strike it to Malfeas
buoyant summit
The game pitch is literally titled The Doom That Came to Gem
marsh garden
nice
fierce star
in the long-running ex2 campaign I ran that @tulip folio was a PC in they were heading to gem because the deathlords were going to run a joint assault on it to turn it into a shadowlands so they could use it and thorns to pincer the entire south until thye could turn the elemental pole of fire into the elemental pole of pyreflame
this was considered a pretty normal thing to happen to gem in a campaign at the time
dense verge
the only real solar idea i have is Dodge Supernal Solar, petty criminal in Gem who got selected by the exaltation because there is not a bad situation he cannot wriggle out of. including Gem exploding in five different ways at once, which he is about to find out about shortly
bleak hazel
Ex2 was a lot more about BIG SHIT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW
dense verge
also, chat moved a lot, i will say that due to discussion here my mental image of rakan thulio is now blade runner 2049 dave bautista
bleak hazel
these days you grow up to take on like, one deathlord for starters
and there's actual room for doing fun day-in-the-life sid missions and such
fierce star
yeah ex3 still has like seven different apocalypses ready to spring but they're a lot more slow burn and it retconned the big stupid one
(like how ex2 retconned the big stupid one of ex1)
marsh garden
the stupid one being the hell invasion?
fierce star
yeah, the reclaimation
marsh garden
what was ex1's big stupid apocalypse?
bleak hazel
also people other than the Sids and like two solar pcs might do something about them this time because Lunars exist and deebs aren't pathetic
fierce star
the locust crusade, or, autochhthon invades creation
fierce star
it was referenced as a thing that could be in ex2 but never got like, The Metaplot Book
marsh garden
that alch players were mad about
bleak hazel
I always think it's funnier to break the seal in the other direction
one of the Eight Nations does a ritual to send people to creation and it fails and they get a Creation celestial circle instead
which they then immediately begin treating as really odd alchs
"look, I will not get in the pod, I will not eat the bugs and I have no idea what to do with that lump of starmetal wire you are insisting is a charm...."
fierce star
lol
also I appreciate the restraint that ex3 seems to not have a Big Singular Stupid Apocalypse To Override All Plotlines
nova yew
also I appreciate the restraint that ex3 seems to not have a Big Singular Stupid...
we're working on it!!!!
being the apocalypse is hard work ;-;
im out here planning festivals
next delta
I believe there are lots of different apocalypses that could override all plotlines. Maybe Creation is protected from them like Mr Burns from illness
fierce star
Invincible, you say?
"Ah, no, sir, a slight breeze could..." "Comlpetely invincible..."
buoyant summit
Do you think having good Manip is gonna be able to create the 'wtaf is this kid on' vibe Paul uses to inspire the Fremen? XD
merry arch
also, chat moved a lot, i will say that due to discussion here my mental image o...
your vision is righteous and true
prisma sun
I unfortunately cannot imagine anyone but League Rakan
merry arch
skill issued unfortunately /j
dense verge
personality of a mild-mannered, polite english professor but is very firm in his convictions
one of which happens to be free will absolutism
bleak hazel
Do you think having good Manip is gonna be able to create the 'wtaf is this kid ...
you can produce a Stilgar, but broad-spectrum Sid social manipulation tech is usually less about broad-spectrum commanding voice stuff and more about nudging
look to Cash and Murder Games in sid socialize for your social orbital laser cannon
and Craft for tech to look really cool and produce social groups like, say, a thousand fanatic desert fighters
Impose Nature in presence can make people want what you want
limpid badge
hi everyone, im doing something funny
buoyant summit
look to Cash and Murder Games in sid socialize for your social orbital laser can...
sorry, that's the charm name, correct?
That's not a joke?
limpid badge
Yeah
buoyant summit
Also holy fuck lilah lmao
fierce star
babygirl jason
feral cipher
hi everyone, im doing something funny
yeah sure
fierce star
I lvoe it, no notes
marsh garden
isn't that just jason
limpid badge
yes
limpid badge
yeah sure
i read a really bad manga that inspired me to make the cutest Hideous Abyssal Ever
Dawn wants to Resolve her grudge
feral cipher
incredible
dense verge
ok discord crashed for a few minutes, i also think rakan's immortality works like koscei the deathless where he straight up parried his death and it can't find him. so every so often he lets someone skewer him with a spear to prove a point
feral cipher
the concept i had written down for Grave's is 'Catacomb-Saint Of Envy'
limpid badge
im not gonna lie most of my concepts are shitposts bc i reflexively do Exalted vibes
feral cipher
I mean hell yeah
limpid badge
like. babygirl jason, girltwink who never makes a good descision, what if elric of melnibone was on estrogen.
buoyant summit
and Craft for tech to look really cool and produce social groups like, say, a th...
If I want to make a network of spies, informants, and devoted warriors, is Craft the place to go instead of Socialize?
limpid badge
and it upgrades into Craft (Wife)
buoyant summit
Chani
prisma sun
ok discord crashed for a few minutes, i also think rakan's immortality works lik...
That is correct
Though I think the problem arises
He parried Saturn's determined death
however that means his Death is now something that cannot be decreed by Fate
however Exalted don't care about Fate.
prisma sun
So any Exalts can still kill him
limpid badge
anyway i hope everyone likes dawn's name bc im very happy with
Dawning Horror of an Unrequited Grudge
marsh garden
hm, could y'all confirm for me my understanding of the martial arts merit?
you don't need it as a solar or abyssal, right?
prisma sun
You do
fierce star
you need it as anyone not an alchemical to learn MAs
prisma sun
If you want to use martial arts, yes
fierce star
sidereals get it for free, alchemicals have a charm for it instead
marsh garden
gotcha, i understood the explanation in the abyssal book incorrectly then, thanks
limpid badge
hrmn. brawl or melee....
buoyant summit
Do uh
prisma sun
Something really funny about an Exalt with just like
buoyant summit
The martial art that uses axes and just
prisma sun
a knife
buoyant summit
your 'axe' is a machete
limpid badge
i know, but, melee isn't quite right and i wonder if just Beating A Fucker To Death would be good
limpid badge
like having read abyssal melee for Bloody Hand
prisma sun
if you're going Slasher vibes
marsh garden
oh
limpid badge
A Slasher is defined by their weapon
this is true!!!
prisma sun
lmao
prisma sun
If you just have one hand used on a weapon you can in fact just beat people to death
and also stab them
limpid badge
both
no i have a very specific vibe of a patrician girl bullied to suicide by dynasts who is now a deathknight errant
handling Grudges as she seeks her killers
prisma sun
How does doing both melee and brawl harm that vibe?
limpid badge
lmao
bleak hazel
If I want to make a network of spies, informants, and devoted warriors, is Craft...
you'll want a little bit of socialize or presence depending on whether you want to be a behind-the-scenes manipulator or more personally forceful, but Craft is good for hosting diplomatic feasts, raising organisations of whatever, etc.
also incidentally makes you good at building shit and gets you WSAV
WSAV goes on all siddies, I don't make the rules
prisma sun
Keratin Phalanx Stands Alone
bleak hazel
(except this one, I did make this one)
prisma sun
wait hold on this is really cool fuck
limpid badge
heheheheee
prisma sun
Abyssal Hoplite
limpid badge
Go for it Voy
prisma sun
I can't double up........
limpid badge
yes u can....
bleak hazel
Abyssal Hoplite
using Hundred Shade Breath
prisma sun
I also should re-do waking smith's inspiration sheet
nova yew
hi everyone, im doing something funny
oh my god
nova yew
using Hundred Shade Breath
D'AWWWWWWWWWWWW
buoyant summit
WSAV goes on all siddies, I don't make the rules
WSAV?
buoyant summit
Ah
nova yew
https://tenor.com/view/kanamori-eizouken-kick-door-chainsaw-gif-2071638281692467...
i love this vibe
fierce star
i love one of the examples for WSAV is 'making bad decisions'
dense verge
the moral of WSAV is "get a hobby"
nova yew
hehehehehe
fierce star
I'm still not sure what sidereal I would like to play eventually if I ever get a chance. It's either 'trains autist but airships' journies or 'daughter of Fae Big Boss' secrets
(she's not battles because her hting is being a shitty gossipmonger who things people should runt heir lives like it's a story)
tulip folio
Oh, I actually realized there's a really good visual for Jadeborn War Machines that lets them be Cut Rate Warstriders and not full artifacts and fit the visuals of exalted.
Legend of Korra Mecha Tanks
bleak hazel
Fortuitous Fellowship and the one after
if you just want warriors, War has Auspicious Recruitment Drive and various tech to socialize with combat types
buoyant summit
You know I think I'm following the 'oh fuck I made paul' thread too far
Cuz she's built to operate in a very different way from Paul
A diametrically different way, almost
She's meant to blend in the crowd
Using her precognition and command over destiny like a spider playing an instrument
fierce star
paul if paul was just Dude Bene Gesserit instead of paul
prisma sun
It's always good to deviate from the inspiration at some point
buoyant summit
paul if paul was just Dude Bene Gesserit instead of paul
She's even less obvious than that
She's not a spy who daylights as a high society priestess and advisor
You ideally will never know she's there until the last, utterly final, moment
I think Sid Bureaucracy is the way to go here actually, looking at the charm list
bleak hazel
take Socialize
Socialize is ideally configured for spooky action at a distance
and Cash and Murder Games is a monster
if your targets can't specifically resist it you can seriously wirehead them with that
buoyant summit
I am really struggling to see how Cash and Murder Games is that good
prisma sun
Is Cash and Muder Games the only charm written where the Sidereal's pronouns are he/him?
coral wraith
I am *really* struggling to see how Cash and Murder Games is that good
Cash and Murder Games is fully remote, you don't have to be anywhere near your target for it to happen
buoyant summit
So it doesn't require I be in the same room as either my target or the person I am tying the target to?
bleak hazel
you target someone with the influence roll and then select someone for them to develop a tie towards
"he" here is the person you aimed the influence at
buoyant summit
got it
bleak hazel
and no, it does not
it gets stronger and stronger as you level, but at base you wear someone's willpower down or pick a target they have no strong feelings towards and as such won't resist disliking
buoyant summit
So I can just be thinking of two separate, unrelated people, in the same room as neither, and poof?
bleak hazel
and within a few meetings they loathe them utterly, or they desperately desire them
you have to be within influence range of the actual target
but after that it just goes
and as you essence up it gets stronger and stronger
marsh garden
i wish that they went with "I" instead of "he (for the core book)/she (for the other books)" as the player
in options
buoyant summit
Sid Bureau still seems more useful for what I plan on doing
bleak hazel
also, even if they spend all their willpower to resist the tie strengthening to defining, it's still an easy undetectable and irresistable minor
buoyant summit
i.e. direct infiltration
bleak hazel
and you'll want manip + socialize for Guile anyway
so may as well take the two charms you need to get the social death ray
"oh, I have a few weeks spare, let me just start turning every member of this court who has no strong attachment to the Matriarch decisively against her"
marsh garden
what all options are there in books to negate that kind of Absolute Sid Fuckery from the player side?
anything much?
bleak hazel
it's a psyche effect, so psyche defences work
chilly sluice
i wish that they went with "I" instead of "he (for the core book)/she (for the o...
core book is also she for the player
bleak hazel
tulip folio
It basicly lets you casually redefine someone's role. It's fucking terrifying if you've got any amount of downtime.
tulip folio
Hey, that powerful army leader? I'm going to give him a slowly growing intimacy of 'Joyful Obedience' to the guy I'm pushing for that throne...
bleak hazel
spend lots of willpower, have a psyche defence or boost your resolve so high they can't tag you through it
buoyant summit
Okay, I am now aware of the potential
bleak hazel
but it's hard to make an entire group resistant to that kind of thing and its best role is brutally kicking everyone your true target likes away from them
tulip folio
It's also So Fucking Cheap. XD
bleak hazel
duration instant
buoyant summit
However this seems like the exact kind of shenaniganery my current other character is doing
bleak hazel
disgusting crime
buoyant summit
As I am a Moonshadow in another game who is doing
bleak hazel
no motes committed, no cooldown
buoyant summit
Basically this, but creating ties to herself via writing letters
bleak hazel
a week of consistent work as a minor courtier could ruin someone's entire power base if they don't specifically make their underlings incredibly loyal
tulip folio
I've got a Socialize-focused sid sitting about to play. She is full of self loathing because...you know, she's a socialize-focused sid who's not a psycho.
bleak hazel
like, major/defining loyal
tulip folio
She's a Serenity Sid who's job is to stop relationships that might fuck up fate
bleak hazel
also I quite like this one just for kicks
tulip folio
Some Romeo and Juliet things happening between the heirs of two nations who are supposed to go to war? Fuck that, heaven needs them not happy!
bleak hazel
become the faceless but incredibly beautiful stranger who nobody can swing on
Sid App build is actually very strong since they can also use it to craft
and to power Games of Divinity Form or similar
Black Claw + PAOC is a brutal combat build attached to your socialite
and it can use brawl versatile to add the pain that regular black claw sometimes lacks
tulip folio
Sid Socialize also has the mighty power of 'Become a Maid'. Becoming a maid is a really stacked, powerful charm.
bleak hazel
yeah that's also true
tulip folio
It's manipulation and infiltration and data gathering etc.
bleak hazel
make flirty eyes at someone, put on your incredibly sharp outfit with Craft, pop Gilded Cage Entrapment and You-and-Yours Stance
App 7 sidereal
do Games of Divinity Form and you're literally as hot as the sun
the Unconquered Sun was Appearance 8
learn necromancy and sit your maidsid on the bone throne (no pun intended) to be hotter than the sun
tulip folio
Silly Pondering on the App front: Becoming a city as an alch means you are very high essence. Alchemical Max Stats scales with essence. Therefore, alchemical cities are stupidly pretty.
buoyant summit
Me when I find out the 'infiltrate and sabotage an organization' bureau charmlist is
two charms
god damn it
bleak hazel
they're not built for that, as you might expect
do that with socialize
it's the evil courtier charmset
bit of craft for seasoning
buoyant summit
I really am not seeing it
bleak hazel
Cash and Murder Games, perfect identity concealment at will, everyone loves you, easy position as an inconspicuous person next to an important person with eavesdropping buffs
power word incel if you need it
climbs to Wanting And Fearing Prayer, which is one hell of a capstone
instant defining tie, boom
ah, I want the Roseblack to go to war against Mnemon
let me just use my incredible suite of infiltration charms to have a chat with both of them, slam a big-ass excellency and all of a sudden they have defining ties of "my hated nemesis" against each other that are enforced by prophecy
bleak hazel
(Mnemon probably has shaping defences, but you might be able to bust them with sid powers and she's one of the hardest targets in all creation)
Cantarella Kiss Intrigue is funny as hell, but its repurchase is just evil
at-will emotional damage
tulip folio
Just make the tie you're trying to use play against her defining intimacy of 'mummy issues' that every single one of Her Redness' children have.
bleak hazel
also if you're doing a sid socialite, get some atelier-and-embassy auspice on there
craft (cooking), make some nice tea, boom
buoyant summit
ehhh
Also I'm not doing a sid socialite
socials are her tertiary stats her only good one is Manip lmao
She is social with one specific goal; to dismantle the structures her enemies sit on, brick by brick, from the inside
like sugar in concrete
bleak hazel
apply cash and murder games until situation is suitable
all you need is manip + socialize
besides, it's two charms in
2 there, 3 dots and 2 charms in Craft (whatever) for WSAV and Atelier-and-Embassy Auspice and boom, you're above average at socializing and have the wonders of WSAV for whatever you want
one more charm if you want to throw heals
"hello, guy who I want to be in tight with my contender for the throne, I know you have a major dislike for him but this dinner is really nice"
invite them both for dinner, throw one smooth-over-differences roll to erode that major to a minor, it counts as nothing, hit 'em with the CAMG
tulip folio
"hello, guy who I want to be in tight with my contender for the throne, I know y...
See, this is sorta why I want to have a Sid/Alch teamup. As the alch version of that charm is self-affecting so a Sid holding a dinner for an alch diplomat reduces a defining negative tie to minor for other people involved.
'I know Mr Deathknight you want to end creation and send it screaming into the void but we've got mini quiche next and they're lovely'
bleak hazel
man I could go for some quiche right now
tulip folio
This of course fails in the face of the Walker, who has a positive intimacy towards killing everyone.
As he Just Thinks It's Cool
nova yew
LMAO
marsh garden
hmm
do y'all think that the walker has both a positive and negative intimacy towards omnicide?
considering his Thing
and they're both defining, of course
or naw
tulip folio
I think the walker is just positive
The bishop has both
As he's A) Abolutely devoted to ending creation to bring peace to everyone B) Absolutely piss scared of it happening to him.
prisma sun
I need to find more sidereal inspirational fights
marsh garden
I think the walker is just positive
oh, the Walker has a note of how he likes creation and doesn't want it to end in ex3
so he's weird and self-flagellating about his sabotage of the mission
which is only like
tulip folio
Towering titans of heavy plating, Jadeborn War Machines are a wonder of engineering. While some dragonblooded may mock them as shy of the true genius of a Warstrider, being made of more mundane metals and geomantic rituals, the Jadeborn have a very persuasive counterargument. To replace a warstrider would take enough magical materials to bankrupt a wealthy satrapy, decades of work and sorcery that has not been seen in ages. When the Jadeborn must replace a lost war machine, they include its destruction in the same report back home they include expended firedust.
Iki writing up why Yes, Jadeborn War Machines are not as cool as your warstrider but they have some serious upsides
marsh garden
him giving his knights reasons to like creation
bleak hazel
last sentence doesn't quite read right, might want to be "when the Jadeborn have to replace...."
I appreciate the chance to Jumping Spider Kick a stormwalker to death
tulip folio
They're also sorta intended to give some more legendary size foes for a guy with a warstrider to fight, especially if they're fighting like...armies.
As warstriders don't fight non-legendary size things well
nova yew
```
Towering titans of heavy plating, Jadeborn War Machines are a wonder of engi...
lmao
yeah
okay
yeah
i do love some good war machines
prisma sun
@bleak hazel I need a name for "swap places with you and then Spider Kick you from the ground you were just at"
As a Technique
funny sid man give unto me your power
Stellar Art: "Predator To Prey Translation" sounds a bit too Lunary
bleak hazel
Perspective Inversion Strike
prisma sun
oooo
bleak hazel
the fun thing about that one is that it's also an extreme range displace, which has its uses
prisma sun
Namely
Go Up
bleak hazel
you end up in melee range with the target on the horizon from where he used to be, which can both be "drop you from the sky" and "so you're not getting the mcguffin today"
prisma sun
You know what I realized the fucking
Thrown dimension charm is
It's not a Domain Expansion
It's the Sakuga Prison
"Going to send you into a cool looking dimension of interestingly destructible terrain"
I wonder if there's a name for that
lament owl
Martial Art(or maybe just like, socalize on a homebrew exalt) tree focused around giving charecters negative ties to other charecters and generally making people despise each other
prisma sun
Isn't that the one Demon one where you pretend to just be a little guy
lament owl
Nono that one is about giving people positive ties to you
and making them feel too bad about it to actually properly fight you or fighting each other to protect you
This is about playing people against each other and sowing discord among their ranks
nova yew
so guys
the ghost i summoned for some of my necromancy
may, or may not, be a monk sorcerer from the immaculate order...possibly
and it most definitely is someone i personally killed during the invasion of thorns
...so uh. lmao
lament owl
woopsiee
lament owl
This is about playing people against each other and sowing discord among their r...
attack that if it hits the person is no longer considered a "Willing Charecter" for effect that can only effect a willing chareecteer
(If this is a socalize tree charm, make it an instill of paranoia instead)
tulip folio
Alright, fantastic. Finished off the Jadeborn War Machine. Scary but not like 'real exalt in a warstrider' scary, as they're much more producable.
nova yew
nodnod
lament owl
Oooo
tulip folio
It doesn't get Devastating Actions like a warstrider. It does get Worse Principle of Motion (But Principle of Motion is kinda nonsense so worse one is fine)
Flaming Magma Blood (5m, 1wp; Reflexive; Instant; Essence 2): Venting steam, the War Machine moves with blinding speed, taking a flurry without the usual restrictions—it may flurry two of the same action if desired, and it ignores the usual penalties to dice pools and Defense. The War Machine however cannot flurry two attacks.
So it can Move + Attack or Move + Move or Aim + Attack but it can't go 'fuck it, making two attacks this turn!'
bleak hazel
This is about playing people against each other and sowing discord among their r...
Laughing Monster Style, already
tulip folio
lament owl
Laughing Monster Style, already
Oh shit? What book
merry arch
lunars
lament owl
Ahhh makes sense haven’t look at them yet
tulip folio
Laughing Monster is a Fae style!
It's about being the Biggest Dickhead
And thus winning
prisma sun
New Headcanon: Creature can be 1001 Nightsed by challenging him to different contests in order to let you live.
The only problem is if you win he does kill you, so you have to find enough contests you can contest him in but never beat him
marsh garden
do Games of Divinity Form and you're literally as hot as the sun
quick question, i was digging through the sid book to look at all this and i'm not seeing +app in games of divinity form
is there a follow-up charm for it that adds it, or something else?
bleak hazel
ah, sorry, I confused its effects and that of Harmonic Completion
I think you might be able to hit 9 or even 10
marsh garden
ah, gotcha!
bleak hazel
Proper Plumage, Gilded Cage Entrapment, You-and-Yours Stance, Harmonic Completion, Seat of Deadly Splendor
marsh garden
i just saw proper plumage lmfao
bleak hazel
theoretical App 10 siddie against people who desire you
will not be hard to make people desire you at App 9
this is mostly pointless and very inefficient
marsh garden
on the other hand
n u mmber go upp
hmm
are there any ways to get bonus strength dots to apply to accuracy, or do all of the assorted str replacers say "bonus dots don't count"?
and/or what all grants bonus dex dots, if anything?
bleak hazel
they all say that, because dots over 5 do wonky stuff to the game maths
marsh garden
gotcha
bleak hazel
(for one, many splats have excellency caps set by attribute in one way or another)
marsh garden
oh yeah, are there any ways to boost abilities over 5?
bleak hazel
you will sometimes find limited exceptions in things like Obsidian Shards of Infinity Style, which gets you "real" 6th and 7th dots of perception for the purpose of that style's charms but for no other purpose
but in general you will never find anything that lets you attack with att or ability 6
and I don't think there are any ways to get an ability above 5
Alchemicals routinely walk around with any of their attributes at 6-8, but they're entirely built around being able to do that and the extra dots only count for charms that have a special keyword enabling them to do so
for rolls they count as charm dice so they don't get 8+5+1 dice plus excellency on top, they just get a few free excellency dice
which is very useful still
next delta
Appearance boosters are generally only for vs resolve effect calcs right?
bleak hazel
in essence, yes
next delta
iirc the Alchemical attribute boosters count as charm dice for >5
bleak hazel
that was formalised after core, for a brief moment it was theoretically a reasonable rules interpretation that all the solar app boosters added 3 dice each to your social dice pools (1 for having a higher attribute in the att + ability base pool, 1 non-charm for exceeding resolve by more and 1 more space for an excellency die from bigger att + ability)
but they put the kibosh on that
App 5 is still a highly effective social stat because you get that >resolve bonus but it's not quite that good
prisma sun
It's kinda nuts that Appearance is still a stat.
next delta
I think it wouldn't have if it was made slightly later or by the current devs
tulip folio
I've not been super a fan of the replacement in other Storyteller systems that scrapped it. Like I'm not 100% happy with it but I also feel like putting compusure in wouldn't thave been much better.
As then you'd have Willpower, Resolve, Guile and Composure
prisma sun
I don't see what's wrong with that
tulip folio
There's a lot of overlap.
I also imagine you'd likely have to heavily redesign both Lunars and Alchemicals if you entirely replaced one of the main stats of the game.
buoyant summit
I have taken Deadly Premonition and Descending Secrets Horoscope cuz
tulip folio
As they're stat-based exalts
buoyant summit
Funni
lament owl
I do think having resolve and guile instead of a single resolve stat is good for the texture of things
prisma sun
I don't mind that
tulip folio
I do think having resolve and guile instead of a single resolve stat is good for...
Oh, I very much agree. I just think between Willpower, Resolve and Guile we've already got a lot of stats and derived stats for 'mentally strong' so a 4th might have been overdoing it a bit.
next delta
I find it weird that resolve keys off of wits tbh
prisma sun
I just kinda think Appearance is bad
tulip folio
...I mean, I think it's fine. It's not exceptional but I"d not go so far as 'bad'.
next delta
Like, I get why it represents a type of resistence to being bamboozled, but I don't think every high resolve character is going to be witty (har)
lament owl
Oh, I very much agree. I just think between Willpower, Resolve and Guile we've a...
Don’t forget integrity as the “be mentally strong” ability
tulip folio
Don’t forget integrity as the “be mentally strong” ability
You're right. It wouldn't be a 4th, it would be a 5th.
next delta
I think this is a fixable problem
prisma sun
I mean Appearance adds to your diverse and globe-spanning setting An Apparent Universal Standard of Beauty which no other stat really does.
It'd be nice if there was a caveat that your Appearance can fluctuate depending on cultural norms or something
tulip folio
I think part of it is that I think Lunars and Alchs have a lot less interesting that is there for them charm-wise if they had composure instead of appearance.
next delta
I don't think it has to be Composure
lament owl
I think in terms of genre emulation appearance kinda hits for me?
Like its not necessarily great for realism and is often a bit nonsensical, but in terms of the genres and myths being emulated here “character who is really hot/terrifying and that is part of their power base” is like, a really big charecter archetype so I can see why it get included
At least that is my thing
merry arch
yea I think appearance is a fun stat
next delta
Storypath doesn't have Resolve (well it does, but as an attribute), Guile or Willpower
tulip folio
It'd be nice if there was a caveat that your Appearance can fluctuate depending ...
I think that falls under the basic rules that actions can be penalized due to circumstances. Like how fighting blind is at a penalty. Attempting to use appearance for a roll for people with a non-applicable standard of beauty would also hit such a penalty.
next delta
Clearly the reason Appearance is a bad stat because obviously everyone should be hot by default for genre emulation purposes
lament owl
Clearly the reason Appearance is a bad stat because obviously everyone should be...
… this is also arguable though yeah
prisma sun
Well the thing is what's "hot"
lament owl
I dunno, the status the water spirits are when they lure people into the lake
merry arch
Well the thing is what's "hot"
I think it's fair to say that falls under the storyteller's discretion?
next delta
I do like the symmetry of every domain of stats in the storypath system having a power/finesse/resistence stat
tulip folio
I think in terms of genre emulation appearance kinda hits for me?
Like its not...
Yeah, I'm kinda okay with it for like 'I wanna be Helen of Troy/Baldr/Freya' purposes.
lament owl
Yeah that is where I’m at
prisma sun
I'm just saying that like, Appearance leads to mechanically enforced weirdness. Like this person is Fat so they lose Appearance, every single person in the entire world thinks they are Less Hot than The Social Twink.
merry arch
I think appearance is a fine stat that's fun to play with and if my character is breaking social and cultural norms for dressing or behaving a certain way then I'm taking a hit. I don't necessarily think that appearance ascribes a catch all measure of attraction across all of creation because well. the storyteller can put penalties on you and say "you're not that hot here"
wise ocean
everyone wants to be the face that launched a thousand ships sometimes
lament owl
As someone who only just got into the game mind you
next delta
I'm just saying that like, Appearance leads to mechanically enforced weirdness. ...
I don't think that follows?
next delta
If addressing a group (p. 220), compare Appearance to
the average Resolve of the group (usually 2 or 3) to deter-
mine any appropriate bonus.
I give you textual proof that people in Creation are of above average appearance
prisma sun
That's funny
lament owl
Amazing
prisma sun
same with nubile twinks
Yeah but then you run into a lesbian and your social twink is still By The Standards Of the World, hotter than your swordswoman.
tulip folio
I think appearance is a fine stat that's fun to play with and if my character is...
It's also good for the various 'ignore penalties to a social action' charms when the GM goes 'you're not seen as that hot here, -3' and you go 'YES I AM, I'M FABULOUS' and negate the penalty 😛
Dragon Kings: "Okay, for a guy without scales he's pretty decent looking I guess."
prisma sun
I don't think looks and unnatural beauty shouldn't be played with, they're genre staples
lament owl
The Necromancy Chair and the fact it can be leveled up with XP always implied to me that people of any body type can simply aura farm and posture into being considered attractive
prisma sun
but as a core stat that everyone has it's really weird
lament owl
If you removed it…. I suppose you could shift the hot girl shit Lunars and Alchemicals get up to to charisma maybe(?)
(By hot girl shit I mean omegaverse pheromones)
tulip folio
If you removed it…. I suppose you could shift the hot girl shit Lunars and Alche...
I think Manipulation would fit a bit more as Alch appearance stuff tends to be more on the 'I am using that appearance to twist you' end but would also lead to some serious 'This charmset has tonal dissonance' issues.
next delta
If you removed it…. I suppose you could shift the hot girl shit Lunars and Alche...
You could move it to Charisma or Manipulation as appropriate. There would probably be less charms related to appearance if it wasn't a core stat though
tulip folio
As Alche Manipulation is the 'I am the Mind Police. Do you have a licence for that intimacy, criminal?' charmset
prisma sun
I feel like there's other ways you could even just rename Appearance and reframe it a bit where it's not The Hotness Stat
marsh garden
i don't exactly know exalted yet, but speaking as an outsider to the system that's familiar with other genre pieces, i like its inclusion
like, we're fucking with the same space when we look at int & wits and even this system's interpretation of charisma
next delta
(It is mildly funny in the context of this discussion that the first Alchemical Appearance charm lets you use it on Charisma or Manipulation rolls)
prisma sun
Though I also forget Charisma is there and I do think Charisma and Manipulation already hit the ideas of "I am hot you will listen to me" without also saying "I am hot because I am a very particular standard of beauty"
lament owl
I feel like there's other ways you could even just rename Appearance and reframe...
Just call it aura or something(you can’t because it’s almost definitely already taken)
marsh garden
because they're all things with like, varying textures and subqualities and perspectives/cultural context
charisma isn't being hot though, is it?
next delta
Just call it aura or something(you can’t because it’s almost definitely already ...
Foiled by the Dragon Blooded once again!
merry arch
it's being convincing mostly
prisma sun
Charisma is that now because Appearance is also a stat
marsh garden
you're a good speaker with a silver tongue and an attractive attitude, which is different from looking like a supermodel - which i think does matter as a space in the genre (although i don't exactly care if it's a stat or just some other easily-acquirable baseline feature)
prisma sun
I also think Int and Wits are fine because the problem is that Appearance is the only stat that should logically be relative between you and every single person you ever meet.
While every other stat is, generally, static regardless
marsh garden
because exalted is like 30% greek myth 30% indian myth 40% xianxia culture, and all of those have stuff for "whether they're quick or dull, well-spoken or a simpleton, their physique universally inspires awe"
and exalted was sold to me as a genre fiction game, so it's important to capture the genre fiction aspects
next delta
It could be a merit if you really want it
marsh garden
merit would work
next delta
Or just a description of how you use your <social stat> in a given context
marsh garden
i assume it would be messier to code but lol i've only been here for three minutes
tulip folio
They also have very different themes for the exalts that have ability-based charmsets.
Alch Charisma: "I am a champion of the working man, stand with me people for glorious soviet alchemical republic." Inspiration
Alch Manipulation: "I hear you've been doing crime. We're taking you to the Mind Ripper criminal. Don't worry, you'll be so much happier after we've fixed those issues with your beliefs." Brutality
Alch Appearance: "I am a treasure beyond compare. Wouldn't you do anything to possess me?" Twisting People Up
prisma sun
The thing to me is that I think adherence to genre that forces you to mechanically enforce harmful stereotypes is not great
lament owl
Foiled by the Dragon Blooded once again!
…. Trying to figure out a good other word for what I am circling around with aura
tulip folio
So what stat would you replace appearance with?
merry arch
does it though? I think a GM has the power to say 'No', don't they? like the final editor for the game at your table is your storyteller.
prisma sun
Am I re-writing Appearance to still serve generally the same purpose or am I just gettting rid of it and pretending it never existed in the first place
marsh garden
are there harmful stereotypes it's enforcing? i don't think appearance dictates anything specific about your appearance, just that as it increases you become More Beautiful And Terrible, right?
tulip folio
I mean, either or. This is more 'there needs to, mechanically, be a third social stat and you're clearly not happy with the existing one'
next delta
Alch Appearance seems to have some stuff that could definitely go under Charisma (as you described it there). The "you can put on a light show" subtheme in Alch appearance is pretty funny though
prisma sun
are there harmful stereotypes it's enforcing? i don't think appearance dictates ...
I think mechanically enforced "universal standards of beauty and ugliness" have a tendency to drift towards either racism through specific cultural beauty standards or ableism by denoting people with deformities as universally ugly.
tulip folio
...I mean, can you point to an example of the game doing that? As far as I'm aware, the game hasn't really done that unless you count how it thinks all peasents are ugly (Oh corebook quick characters).
next delta
Oh, huh. I didn't realize 5e V:tM uses almost-storypath attributes
marsh garden
speaking of the CRB, do they have any plans to uh
go back and republish an updated version eventually?
tulip folio
speaking of the CRB, do they have any plans to uh
Redo it? Unlikely.
merry arch
presently no plans for a rewrite
next delta
Oh yeah. They have had that line for basically the entire gamelines existence
prisma sun
I would also say Composure works fine and I don't have a problem with it.
If I'm just refluffing Appearance I may do something like "Poise" or "Awe" or something like that.
next delta
They really don't want to rewrite it
lament owl
I’m pondering real hard rn
My lack of a good word for this is bothering me
Since your ability to strike awe is distinct- Poise!!! Thank you Voy
Perfect
tulip folio
While I think Composure would struggle to get a full charmset out of it when Wits and Intelligence already eats up most of its meal.
prisma sun
I think if we are going for genre tropes, having a Tranquility stat is fine
lament owl
I would say “what about integrity then” but stamina and resistance actually hang out with each other pretty hard
prisma sun
Being unflappable and stoic is part and parcel of the whole shebang
next delta
Composure would get stuff from Wits and/or Manipulation (partially depending on if you also have Resolve as an Attribute). I think it's pretty reasonable for those attributes to get more related stuff
tulip folio
presently no plans for a rewrite
And they've also kinda written themselves into a bit of a corner in terms of any rewrite. As Abyssals and Infernals got things because corebook solars got them and if they redid corebook, solars would have to get them because abyssals and infernals have them now.
next delta
Appearance already has some Composure related stuff it looks like
marsh garden
And they've also kinda written themselves into a bit of a corner in terms of any...
ahhhh, that makes sense
next delta
Well, every follow up book has stuff related to the core book. So it's hard to do a total rewrite
prisma sun
Does every printed Dragonblood have Appearance 3 this is really funny
marsh garden
clearly it just means that they need to make a 3.5e that becomes the staple
next delta
And they probably don't want to clean up a bazillion charms anyways
tulip folio
I feel like tranquility would itself perpetuate some harmful stereotypes about handling emotions.
'You're a passionate person, so your stats are low'
prisma sun
Okay there we go, 1 appearance 2, 1 appearance 4
next delta
All Dragonblood average out to Appearance 3. Its the law of Creation
prisma sun
I mean if we have Composure be a stat, the charmset would revolve around stoicism and tranquility
Like "You are so serene you may walk on water so long as you hold your breath" and shit like that
next delta
'You're a passionate person, so your stats are low'
I think you can play with Composure in a fun way there. Like just because you can let yourself be unphased doesn't mean you can't be passionate
prisma sun
Yeah
lament owl
I do like poise as a rename name for it
Since you can gain temporary appearance by aura farming in a cool ass chair, and level it with xp, but it also is totally a way I have heard people describe other people as hot
prisma sun
Yeah
tulip folio
...I feel like that kinda causes issues with Alchs because Clarity is a stat they have that's about how stoic and unemotional they are.
next delta
Clarity is more about how machine-like/utilitarian they are no?
tulip folio
Clarity is more about how machine-like/utilitarian they are no?
It's your Vulcan stat 😛
lament owl
Tbf I do feel like clarity is being used almost ironically there
Since it’s their limit equivalent
marsh garden
it's super ironic while also being completely serious, from what i've seen
next delta
I don't think Clarity invalidates Composure as a hypothetical stat anymore than it invalidates Intelligence
marsh garden
like, they gain clarity of reason and lose clarity of emotion
prisma sun
I am saying clarity as like, a word to denote the state of meditative grace
I don't think that, in practice, affects having a stat named Clarity
Stocism, serenity, enlightenment
tulip folio
...as someone who tends to get very passionate about things, I'll admit a lot of personal distaste for the idea that being stoic and tranquil means you've got better stats.
next delta
I definitely have certain bad stats lmao
prisma sun
I don't understand this
next delta
(ok, probably most of them)
marsh garden
i've got a 1 in everything :D
lament owl
That’s fair I think
I do agree it’s genre matching, but I also personally think I would prefer apperance/a rename like poise(partially just because I think appearance charms tend to be funny and a lot of integrity charms I have seen are kinda meh so while composure charms could be memorable I don’t really trust it atm)
prisma sun
I mean you're comparing a thing that exists to a thing that does not exist
lament owl
(Sorry for any integrity fans in chat who just caught a stray)
tulip folio
That’s fair I think
I do agree it’s genre matching, but I also *personally* th...
I wish integrity had more spice to it yeah.
prisma sun
the thing that exists shall generally be better
marsh garden
i like the abyssal integrity charms!
tulip folio
Integrity is great for like...Sids.
marsh garden
dunno what any of the others look like, and if they're more or less boring
tulip folio
As it has a serious identity beyond just 'resist mental effects'
marsh garden
but i like the pactmaking
next delta
If Composure exists as a stat, a splat would need to be able to use it for Evasion calculations
marsh garden
and Adding Hatred
lament owl
Integrity is great for like...Sids.
Sid and abyssal integrity are cool that’s true
tulip folio
Solar and Dragonblooded Integrity is some of the most boring shit ever written for exalted.
next delta
Some of the Infernal ones were neat. Turn you into a weird blue and orange morality person
lament owl
If Composure exists as a stat, a splat would need to be able to use it for Evasi...
True!
Probably Sids actually?