Exalted

[nova yew]

OF COURSE JENNA worked on the book for the exalted fae

of course she would

[tulip folio]

Raksha are super cool and we don't really have a 'Fae' focused exalt right now. Raksha are not exalts but they play in a similar area.

I made a Raksha once for a game that sadly didn't go anywhere.

Their role was literally 'knight in shining armour'.

[buoyant summit]

God I rly want the Heptagram game I'm a part of to start soon

[nova yew]

oh wait jenna moran is still writing for exalted huh
thats awesome

i dunno why i thought she wasnt but there she is, one of the writers for 3e

[buoyant summit]

But people must make their sheeeeeeeets

[nova yew]

i aspire to her transgender energy

[tulip folio]

Weird Pondering: Right now in 3e, the closest exalt to how Raksha work is Alchemicals

With the ability to remake themselves in downtime and their excellency being tied into 'I can have stats higher than 5'

[fierce star]

Dice Pools: Almost Everything 12, Being Humble 2

(shamelessly stolen from iki)

[tulip folio]

Hey, ti's how it's stat an NPC raksha 😛

Define them more on the areas they suck than the areas they excel, as they excel at nearly everything

[nova yew]

fascinating

[tulip folio]

...I'm also realizing that this revolutionary, anti-heaven second circle totally leans towards having a 'fallen angel' visual vibe.

[wise ocean]

There's a raksha somewhere out there that is absolutely awful at fine motor skills and has been trying to weave a basket by hand for 500 years

[nova yew]

fallen angel aesthetics you say.... :3

[fierce star]

I'm just imagining a solar cursing a raksha with dyspraxia now

[bleak hazel]

He is a really good midboss, admittedly, I have beat his arse twice solo and once with a team

Octavian admittedly doesn't really stand up to optimised PC bullshit but he's perfectly fine against any normal squad

[coral wraith]

she also wrote 1e Sids, which was a pretty significant template for Actually Good Sidereal Stuff in 3e afaik

[nova yew]

oh yeah no from what ive heard she had a huge influence

she got a special thanks in the 3e sid book for her work on their charms esp

im coming in to exalted from a nobilis and glitch and chuubos background, which are her works in this stuff, and wow i can also see how exalted influenced her when coming into here

excrucians and the Outside being quite similar the the wyld of exalted (and annujan bearing Wyrd as a powerset)

[tulip folio]

I mean, it fits for 'Fuck you heaven' starts a revolution. Angry Anarchist Fallen Angel XD

[nova yew]

fragile, majestic, pure and beautiful things

marked my scars, by wounds, by bandages and pain, by darkness in the eyes of something that might have been kind, by the mockery of their previous forms...

[limpid badge]

The Layabout Prince, Devil Body

Powers: Dispersed Form (2), Mind-Corrupting Pussiance (2), Overwhelming Passion (Torment) [Terrible Gaze] (1), Extreme Transformation (1), Variable Form (1), Flight (1)
Mutations: Entangling Limbs (3), Pheremones (2), Toxic Bodily Fluids (2), Enhanced Toxin [Hallucinogenic] (1), Musical Voice (1), Ink Sacs (2)
hi everyone. i've made something Awful

[velvet raft]

Hey this seems pretty awesome

[tulip folio]

Yay, Hallucinogenic Toxins!

...where are the pheramones mutation from though? I don't recall them.

[limpid badge]

Lunars!

[nova yew]

yeah its great

shame its shadow circle ;-;

[velvet raft]

This does feel like one that could reasonably be Sorcery as well, though

Maybe

I think

[fierce star]

ehh

sorcery isn't really supposed to futz with your souls

[velvet raft]

Mm, I guess, yeah

[nova yew]

my understanding is that sorcery has a large breadth it covers, while necromancy is more limited in scope, but offers a path to near complete dominion over death, souls, old law shit, and some real fucked up underworld stuff

[velvet raft]

There's a real dearth of Celestial Circle spells with interesting Control benefits

One can only hope that when the Infernals MA/Sorcery chapter drops in three days it brings us some good stuff

[tulip folio]

Hmm...people who are Good At Mass Combat: What sort of charms does a character need to have to do Celestial-Tier Mass Combat (I know you can't beat solars, that's not possible).

[dense verge]

late to the discussion but this is from Crucible of Legend in a section about orientalism, and the other is from core 3e

[nova yew]

LMAO

[dense verge]

every so often the current devs will subtweet the core book

[nova yew]

i do love that

[dense verge]

after they threw out the head devs that sucked both as people and writers

[lunar magnet]

God, they fucked the core so badly.

[velvet raft]

I really wish they would do an errata -_-

[next delta]

They had a ginormous thread going for awhile

[tulip folio]

Unironically, they are responsible for many of my least favourite parts of Abyssals and Infernals, despite being gone

Purely by virtue of 'shit that was established in the corebook as precedent'

[limpid badge]

@tulip folio here's pheremones btw

[tulip folio]

Oh, that's very handy if you're all about a Specific Emotion.

[velvet raft]

TFW you realize you have a free charm for Ascending Destiny Mien and so don't need Integrity

(The feel is good)

[limpid badge]

yeahuppp and uh, im comboing this with the Torment that lets me inflict curses on people

The curse im going with is FALL AND ADORE ME I AM DIVINITY

the layabout prince's jellyfish form is really good at convincing you not to hit it

so! its love! its time to make people fall in love with a giant jellyfish full of human eyes that leaks hallucinogenic toxins everywhere

i didn't take no hideous merit. this the most fuckable jellyfish in malfeas. which is a more competitive title than you'd think.

[nova yew]

and possibly creation too

less competitive but im certain some raksha make it on that leaderboard

[limpid badge]

damn wyld-creatures. coming over here. out competing creations native fuckable jellyfish.

[fierce star]

lilah: take your lunar mate as an ally. Have them be a changing moon jellyfish totem lunar. Have them be competition. but like, in a fun way. about fuckable jellyfish.

[limpid badge]

i do not have the merits to do that

i do have an intimacy prepared for when the Lunar Mate shows up which is My True Love is out there... (Deluded Longing)

mostly this intimacy exists to help facilitate the Layabout Prince making the most inadvisable romantic choices possible

[lunar magnet]

hagosdhgewaipoh ahahhaahhahahahahaha

[fierce star]

lol

what's thep oitn of playing an infernal if you can't fail forward hilariously with the worst choices you can possibly mkae at any given time?

[limpid badge]

exactly. im here to make some of the worst people in the world and then, much like the yozi, watch them fucking human shrapnel their way through creation

[fierce star]

The yozi have always been a metaphor for the players of exalted

[bleak hazel]

the annoying thing about Exalted's plethora of fallen angels is that it's very easy to see that the people who pushed them into the pit had some pretty good points

[nova yew]

well thats why you call it being a devil's advocate

[bleak hazel]

of course there's also the Sid variant of angel activities (godly special operative descended from literal heaven to kung fu your ass)

[nova yew]

yeah

very angelic :3

[bleak hazel]

they do have a martial arts form where they move so incredibly beautifully that everyone in the area needs to save against becoming permanently addicted to seeing someone move like that

it's hard to swing a straight up Be Not Afraid but you can definitely blaze with terrible glory

dreamstones are a Res 4 purchase, so even your average dynast is going to be eating the withdrawal on this basically all the time

[nova yew]

draw another party member!!!
This time it's @lament owl 's soggy little fellow

arguably the nicest of our circle

[lament owl]

My guyyyyyyy

my boyyyy

I really like how Karen did Huskflayer <3

[coral wraith]

ah he rolled sogged

https://tenor.com/view/soggy-cat-gif-5230434060612508653

[nova yew]

thank you ❤️

[nova yew]

hes the soggiest pc

his entire life was mostly a series of misfortunes so constant he began to assume he was a bad omen, his "first and only love" died, and he got punted by a raksha so hard all his bones exploded

and mostly hes the nicest of us because when someone was protesting our righteous conquest of Thorns in the city he only cut off her arm after numerous warnings instead of killing her immediately

[lament owl]

Its true
he's been dipped in blood andd crude oil

[buoyant summit]

horrifying that he's the nicest

I am also (debatably) the nicest of my circle

In that I am not Necromancer Genocide Maniac or Gaslight Gatekeep Girlboss Martial Arts

I am simply

[nova yew]

thats how iti s

[buoyant summit]

A diplomat

[nova yew]

yeah
thats nice when compared to...everything else

[buoyant summit]

lol

Yeah our party is myself, whose very name is literally a threat and I am still the nicest

Then the necromancer warlord maniac warstrider pilot

Then the girlboss martial artist spy who's actively framing someone right now

Then the warrior artist whose synethesia makes him want to open people up to see the colors inside them

And lastly the second genderboss martial artist spy

Their respective styles are Black Claw and White Veil

[nova yew]

oh shit a warstrider???

pog

[buoyant summit]

He does not have one yet

However, has the training

[nova yew]

wow

[merry arch]

ok here's my bastard infernal

truly the azimuth of all time

[prisma sun]

I actually wonder if I can find a way to recreate Malevolent Shrine in Exalted

[buoyant summit]

'Is Griffith an Elric', post locked after etc etc etc

[merry arch]

i was going to put elric on there but it truly would be redundant

because his sword is his fetich soul lmao

[buoyant summit]

oh my god both zenos and the jjk guy are doing the fuckboy rest head on hand pose

amazing

'clearly you don't own an airfryer' ass pose

[merry arch]

maybe not the effects directly but infernals have their inner world and can project it as an illusion if im not mistaken

[buoyant summit]

Also given a lot of the other parts of Sephiroth are up here in the form of the other characters

I gotta ask

[prisma sun]

It took a LOT for me to not give Creature Necromancy just for the Fuck Throne

[buoyant summit]

is he there for the mommy issues

[merry arch]

it's mostly the hair. and the patent look of superiority if im being honest. but i can pencil in mommy issues, sure

[vale glen]

Heeey, Midra ref? Delightful.

Or is that more like

the chaos generally

[buoyant summit]

I know I posted my characters' inspos already but I wanna post em again <XD

Lunar God Queen Moment

[vale glen]

ASHURA'S WRAAATH.

Fuck yes.

[buoyant summit]

The entire right half are there for Violence and Yorny

[vale glen]

I need to make one for Vagrant-Sage of Pallid Chrysanthemum

That guy is

I love him

[buoyant summit]

lol

[merry arch]

yea midra is there because he's an insane bastard who wants to burn all of creation and heaven

so yesn't. lord of frenzied flame mostly

[vale glen]

Ahh, rog, rog.

What Picrew did ya use for the fella, if I may ask

I need a face like that for Sage! If I can get it

[buoyant summit]

NO CONSEQUENCES

[nova yew]

no consequences baby

[coral wraith]

did you counterspell

[buoyant summit]

No, even better

my twig moonshadow ass saw the zysygy being summoned, planted her feet, breathed in and said 'nah'

[coral wraith]

beautiful

[buoyant summit]

And both the combat castes in the party failed

Cuz I, the Moonshadow, have more Stamina and Resist than them

[limpid badge]

He’s beautiful and i love him

Need to finish layabouts,,,

[merry arch]

put narcissus on there

[limpid badge]

U kno. True.

[prisma sun]

Put Andrew WK on there

[tulip folio]

Let me guess, they're all dex and str?

[buoyant summit]

yep

[limpid badge]

hi everyone I’m still trying to pick a good first circle for my Layabout Prince’s unwoven coadjucator

a neomah would probably be the simplest answer but feels too easy,,

[prisma sun]

Round little cuck ball so he can send out invites

[limpid badge]

voy which demon are you describing there

[prisma sun]

The messenger ball from 100 devil night parade

It goes in a straight line to the other person to deliver a message

[limpid badge]

Ooooh

[limpid badge]

I mean, useful summon

[prisma sun]

This is why its the cuckball

[limpid badge]

u are corect to do so

[prisma sun]

I also think the funny mantis cloud guy fits

[limpid badge]

Tomescu?

actually

wait

i think i have a thought

[feral cipher]

Thoughts are generally considered the consequence of thinking

[prisma sun]

A dangerous past time

I do not remember any of the first circle demon names tbh

Okay del

Get the slime guys

[limpid badge]

hello everyone. look at my awful daughterson

[feral cipher]

yeah sure

the only fucker here i really know is Thistle but that's a funny as hell inclusion, so sure

[prisma sun]

I assume bottom right is spirited away

[limpid badge]

Nope!

[prisma sun]

Fuck

[limpid badge]

The Verdigris Hall from Apothecary Diaries

[prisma sun]

Double fuck

[merry arch]

yayyyyy

[limpid badge]

Baron Muster (Battle Angel Alita- Mars Chronicle), G5 Iguazu (Armored Core 6), Yotsuyu goe Brutus (FFXIV Stormblood), Narsiccus (HADES 2), The Mad Mage (Dungeon Meshi), The Verdigris Hall (Apothecary Diaries)

i do not blame you i started this shit with a deep cut and ended it with a building

[feral cipher]

heheheh

I don't have enough freaks to point at for Grave's Due

S'not really how I conceptualize characters

[limpid badge]

I am mostly finding things that are... helpful illustrations?

Of the energy Layabout is supposed to have

[feral cipher]

Mhm mhm

[limpid badge]

my abyssal's sheet is a lot? clearer?

but she's also intentionally Just An Elric Type Character

[feral cipher]

mhm mhm

[prisma sun]

You didnt even move Yostuyu

Thats so funny

[limpid badge]

i straight up didn't

she's very influential bc i love her

and both are using different parts of her

[feral cipher]

I think the only real connection i've made in my head for 'oh this is the vibe' for Graves is Chronos Hades 2
that same kind of grand condescending but obviously still bitter way of speaking

[limpid badge]

a good foundation if ever there was one

[prisma sun]

I want you to make a lunar and shes also still there

But for other different reasons

[limpid badge]

honorable mention for layabout's six is the Portugese ManoWar

[prisma sun]

Del you do run the risk

https://youtu.be/jVD0i_pz3as?si=OPNJ9AetSG4ydmJH

[limpid badge]

i absolutely do

on the other hand, look at this bullshit

Layabout Devil Body

Powers: Dispersed Form (2), Mind-Corrupting Pussiance (2), Overwhelming Passion (Torment) [Profane Words UPGRADED] (2), Extreme Transformation (1), Flight (1)
Mutations: Entangling Limbs (3), Pheremones (3), Toxic Bodily Fluids (2), Enhanced Toxin [Hallucinogenic] (1), Musical Voice (1), Lure (1)

[prisma sun]

Del i haven't read the book none of these words hold meaning to me

[limpid badge]

well. all the mutations are at least core/lunars

and tell a horrifying story.

[prisma sun]

You gonna get the intro to Namielle

[prisma sun]

Okay

Having read a bit more on infernals

I have a hot take

Abyssals should be the only corrupted Solars

Infernals should be corrupted Lunars

[limpid badge]

I see the vision

[prisma sun]

They are protean shape shifters

[buoyant summit]

Oh yeah I, the Moonshadow

Am now in a duel with the enemy commander

...

F*ck

Because the Daybreak and Dusk are twigs with no Stam or Resist <XD

[prisma sun]

You should have thrown them into the air over the wave

Like the main guy from LA Noire

[buoyant summit]

I have the lowest Strength and Athletics of the three of us

[prisma sun]

Its a guy how hard can it be

Like 4 successes?

[buoyant summit]

Ah yes let me yeet two heavily armed men over a tsunami as canonically the weediest of the group

XD

[prisma sun]

No lunar is weedy if they get creative with flexing

[buoyant summit]

I am an Aby sadly

Moonshadow meaning I am the dark opposite of an Eclipse

[prisma sun]

Oh

[buoyant summit]

XD

My hypothetical lunar mate might be able to pull that feat tho

lol

[vale glen]

@limpid badge @merry arch Okay the Infernal character is finally done.

He's alive! This is a bad idea for everyone

[limpid badge]

oh what a fucking wreck of a man. he's gonna fuck everything up and maybe eat the god of gamblers

(positive)

[vale glen]

He's crashing out, he's crashing in, he's put all his money on black, it's come up red, he's beating the loser allegations by putting his immortal soul on the line and immediately going for a bluff with a pair of twos

He's the worst man alive

[tulip folio]

Oh, Delilah. With the second circle revolutionary demon I realized I needed to add something to her intimacies.

Minor Tie: Mist, Eternal Revolutionary(Disgust, 'Fae Traitor To Creation!')

She's not even getting along with the other guy who literally can't think of anything but revolution.

[velvet raft]

@tulip folio Wyrdflame-using alchemical ...

[fierce star]

I live for leftist infighting tbh

[velvet raft]

ponders who would go on Reasonable Infernal's character board

https://tenor.com/bClJG.gif

Unrelated: holy shit that's a good hook

[velvet raft]

In fairness the Median Sidereal is like two people

[tulip folio]

Alchemical discovering he's gone Apostate:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/715050513338728518/1447191127512973365/image.png?ex=6936b944&is=693567c4&hm=6360309893994b8e469bdb7b56deb9df48dc9121e176b4161400a97dd1838fe4

[velvet raft]

BTW, is there a template hanging around that everyone uses for the character mood boards?

[feral cipher]

more theme music for Grave's Due
https://youtu.be/D9o_XTzYoa8?si=FrxXE8CevexBZqpV
https://youtu.be/Z1d8-DsfCno?si=E6QhpKZu9aYEzJr6

[tulip folio]

I know it's how it's always been but man I wish 3e had gone 'Lets put the various Celestials/Solaroids on par with each other'. It's always been kinda irksome that you need to be rather careful for a Solar/Lunar pair to work in a game together.

It also, as a GM, makes it so much harder to challenge a Solaroid in their element. Though the exact element varies a lot (With solars being not that bullshit in some paths/unbeatable in others)

[velvet raft]

Oh my

[tulip folio]

I do love sail charms that don't depend on naval combat

[velvet raft]

OH MY

There's also a bunch of "you're a sea monster" sail charms that work while underwater

I wonder if there's some sort of awesome combo one could exploit to make those more widely applic

"Look, we understand the Naval Combat minigame sucks, okay"

oh my god

(Notably none of this is usable with Sail-based attack rolls, which is good because holy fucking shit)

Speaking of which

[dense verge]

tbf, the current devs seem nuch more inclined toward that, its just that core 3e's many crimes have to be passed on

perhaps 4e, one day

[velvet raft]

I do prefer that Solars be stronger, but not as much stronger as they are

[bleak hazel]

Making my Corpse-Engines of Annihilation out of nearby big bugs

I would prefer there just be a general Celestial Tier, although these are wide enough bands that there will probably be some variance anyway

like, Infernals are giga-super-frontloaded and get so much stuff dumped on them at chargen, Sids and Alchs are backloaded, etc.

(I am a bit worried aobut the Infernals getting all their class features full bore at E1 on top of Supernal, but at least devil-body tends to have collateral attached)

[velvet raft]

YES

oh shiiiiiii

https://tenor.com/dpyryIMVZNv.gif

[bleak hazel]

the Kimbery stuff is very cool, I am strongly tempted to have Boat Lair

[velvet raft]

Yeah Sail is legit amazing

Sail Primordial looks super fun, even with it houseruled to Essence+1

[velvet raft]

Thinking Reasonable Infernal is from the Lintha

The Most Reasonable Lintha

Really annoyed everybody by killing the vibe

[prisma sun]

I am thinking more about rewriting Exalted to make it so that Infernals were Lunars

[velvet raft]

?

[prisma sun]

This

Infernals read absolutely way more like they should be corrupted Lunars than corrupted Solars

[velvet raft]

I don't see it, personally

[prisma sun]

They are protean shape-shifters who are driven by a deep well of Rage that cannot be sated

[velvet raft]

They're not really protean shape-shifters and neither they nor lunars are necessarily driven by a deep well of rage that cannot be sated, so, eh

[prisma sun]

I mean they are and they are

[velvet raft]

But I mean centrally the thing is that Infernals are not corrupted Solars anymore, not in the way Abyssals are

[prisma sun]

Half the charms I read about them involve some amount of shape-shifting

Their main gimmick is a spirit-shape

And Lunars and Infernals both share vindictive rage as an Essence fever

[velvet raft]

I think you're greatly overemphasizing the importance of both Essence fever and a 1/story ability

But I mean you do you,, all I was intending to say is that I don't see it

[prisma sun]

I'm not, the other charms I see also revolve around shit like:
Shape-shift into a flesh flower to cure diseases
Shape-shift your skin into being invulnerable or into a set of artifact armor
Shape-shift into an area of still water that only your boat can sail through
Shape-shift other people or demons into horses

etc etc

There's a lot of shape-shifting

[velvet raft]

What I do want to say is that Infernals are centrally not corrupted Solars, not in the way Abyssals are

They're something new made out of Solar exaltations

[prisma sun]

But the base component is still solar exaltations is my point, which I feel like that doesn't change

[velvet raft]

Which, come to think of it, kinda makes sense given the new lore stating that the Yozi have a unique expertise warping exaltations

[velvet raft]

@bleak hazel As the resident crafting master, how is Lunar crafting stuff? What is essential to make it work?

[bleak hazel]

exactly standard for a celestial splat

they are the most by-the-books crafters except for maybe Alchemicals

Alchems have mass production stuff and an incredibly strong white point sink, Lunars have fun tech to make artifacts out of things you kill

but you need the basic and boring crafting tech for both of them and it's all stock

[velvet raft]

Mostly/entirely Int charms?

I'm playing around with a Warstrider Lunar

https://tenor.com/ojL4RWNzF9D.gif

Who is this guy

[nova yew]

Who is that guy

[mighty rover]

Roger Smith

he's like Bruce Wayne with a mech

[nova yew]

I see

[velvet raft]

From The Big O

[buoyant summit]

Big O

Fuck

xD

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/bS52X.gif

This thing

[buoyant summit]

https://tenor.com/view/bigo-punch-ora-anime-mecha-gif-25392699

[nova yew]

I’ve been pondering artifact crafting for the creation of sinister necromantic giant robots too.

…and vibes wise I was thinking of combine striders

I love those things

[velvet raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9xzhyp431c&list=RDMM42HhqBrK0TI&index=16

[bleak hazel]

pretty much, yeah

Wonder-Weaving Art x3
Pattern-Realising Genius
Ever-Mutable Prowess
Manifest Miracle Forging```

[velvet raft]

So, bonestriders are a whole thing!

[velvet raft]

Much obliged

[nova yew]

:0

Tell me

[bleak hazel]

that suite gets you 3-dots in a few rolls and 4-dots 92% of the time with the full 6 rolls

[velvet raft]

Evil necromancy warstriders

Usually made from the bodies of slain supernatural beings or beasts of power

[nova yew]

I was thinking of just having a chitinous shell made of necrotic flesh and bone, and then shoving their cores with a soul steel lattice that can be it’s “mind”

And it can use its unending agony to shoot lasers

[nova yew]

Oh that makes sense

[bleak hazel]

convert silver juice to gold juice with Ever-Mutable Prowess to fuel the crafting

Lunar and Sid craft both have a much more reasonable "moderate artifact crafting" setting

for Solars it's like "pay $10 for basic capability, pay $12 to become god, so you may as well"

[velvet raft]

Anything that would stand out to you for just having the pools/ability to do warstrider repairs?

[bleak hazel]

you can do that with an excellency and a dream, no splat is specifically that good at it

you just want your craft project speeder-upper

[velvet raft]

Right

[bleak hazel]

which you have here, Pattern-Realising Genius

it does eat willpower, though

[velvet raft]

It's tricky for Lunars since Craft First Age Artifice requires a million dots in other stuff, sadly

[bleak hazel]

and each warstrider health level is a single repair project so your ability to do the "rush to repair the mecha" scene will be limited by your willpower

fuck first age, do it manually

it's not too hard without Craft (FAA)

FAA is literally always a trap unless you are a Solaroid who specifically wants to build warstriders, and even then you're accepting gross inefficiency for style

worst case scenario, getting a warstrider out of its -4s is a Diff 9 project, which you can easily palm slam with basic craft charms

if it gets wrecked you're in trouble, try to avoid that

but if it's only a 5-dot strider you can probably manage that, an artifact 3 at diff 8 is within the capabilities of a heavily invested craft Lunar

[velvet raft]

Gotcha, so just normal Craft Artifacts

I appreciate the advice

I do this character building stuff mostly to amuse myself but it also gives me the opportunity to learn bits and pieces of the system that I otherwise wouldn't be able to just focus in on

Hm, I guess it's also not as big a deal since Neritoum can be healed with Halting the Scarlet Flow at Essence 2

Still good to have

[bleak hazel]

a craft lunar can handle warstrider maintenance and repairs easily without any extra investment, like most craft exalts

craft is annoying because once you do all the maths it boils down into an actual playable system but it requires you to crunch the numbers to find out what the real game is

[velvet raft]

With Int 5, would you consider Craft 3 or 4 to be sufficient, or does it need to go all the way to 5?

[coral wraith]

sidereal moments

[velvet raft]

Love to see it

[bleak hazel]

if you want to craft artifacts, you want Int 5 Craft 5 Spec 1

crafting artifacts with a non-maxed pool is silly

[velvet raft]

Specifically for Warstrider maintenance, let's say

[bleak hazel]

without the full craft suite you can't rez a destroyed warstrider, but to repair a damaged one you need to hit at most Diff 9

which is doable with Craft 4 if you stunt and spend WP

but I really wouldn't, there's no point in investing in craft if you are going to buy charms but not max your pools

[velvet raft]

Makes sense. Just hurts to start with brawl at 3 :(

[bleak hazel]

you can start with Brawl 5 and immediately raise craft from 3 to 5

you'll need to do some mundane crafting anyway before you can make artifacts

[velvet raft]

@nova yew Even setting aside the traditional bonestrider, there's stuff like this

So yeah mixing soulsteel with undead flesh

[nova yew]

Yesssssss

[velvet raft]

... is there actually any reason to prefer Beast-Form Empowerment over Chimera-Soul Expression?

[fierce star]

if you want your normal spirit shape to not look like a weird mutant freak, perhaps for disguise purposes

[velvet raft]

Fair enough

[fierce star]

the lunar I made most recently prefers BFE becuase her spirit shape is a carrion bee, so it's already quite small, so the more unobtrusive it is the easier it is to do Lunar Bullshit with it

if you've got like a tyrant lizard or giant fuckoff bear or something as your spirit shape it's probably nto as big a deal because you're gonna be calling attention to yourself in sneaky situations in it ANYWAY

[velvet raft]

Alright, so BFE is essentially for subtlety

[fierce star]

that's my thoughts on the matter, anyway; I could easily have missed something, but that's my read on it yeah

Oh! One other thing

BFE is 'pick any mutations', CSE is 'merge your spirit shape with another animal', so it's not Technically as freei n what mutations you can pick, but creation being creation you can probably find something that fits the six dots you want

[buoyant summit]

I just used the boss using a giant god wave to decimate both armies to my advantage by asking both his captains 'is this your guy?'

'The guy who just used a spell to destroy half your home and your entire army to fail to repel one small invading force? Really?'

[nova yew]

LMAO

REAL

this is what happens when your armies have things like free will smh

[buoyant summit]

I got a 'kill' with talking

You love to see it

(one of the captains booked it)

[nova yew]

HAH

[velvet raft]

Bear-Kraken ...

[buoyant summit]

He's about to try and probably succeed to hit me

the dusk is clashing nvm lmao

[lament owl]

Hey I was reading the NPCs section of the Abyssal Book and are "Demiurgic Arts" like.... A Thing or is The First And Forsaken Lionn the only one with something like that

[bleak hazel]

just them so far

[lament owl]

It does seem like a fun mechanic to slap on Superbosses-With-Primordial-Connections

[prisma sun]

I would use it for Deathlord novas yeah

[light olive]

Dont trust change. But. At the same time. How can it be change if I have never been legitimately involved?

Was reflecting on my love kf Infernals. But it sounds like 3e infernals are well done

[tulip folio]

Unshackle The Soul (5m; Supplimental; Instant; Essence 2): Exousia doubles 9s on an Instill or Persuade roll to inspire revolutionary fervour or to shake one's confidence in existing systems. She ignores multiple target penalties on this roll and her targets they can’t use Intimacies based on loyalty, obedience or apathy to bolster their Resolve against her influence or resist it in a Decision Point.

Tinkering with things for an NPC. Do you think it's too mean for players to force them to tag an intimacy other than 'Well, I'm loyal' or 'the boss is the boss' when dealing with a revolutionary demon?

[light olive]

Huh. I wonder. Thinking about how there are cool homebrew yozi charm trees for 2e. And wondering which ones are close to 3e stuff (which i havent read)

[velvet raft]

My take is that they’re imperfect, and that the focus on vengeance is weird and dumb, and there are a few truly bad lore changes to the Yozis, but what we have gotten is really good on balance.

[light olive]

nodnod

Im curious to heee detailed complaints

[velvet raft]

Infernals genuinely feel like every ability has genuinely interesting charms

And the arrangement of those charms facilitates having a schtick even outside of Supernal

[light olive]

Mhmm.

[limpid badge]

I think they’re very well done this time around, in that there isn’t a huge amount of the book I have to throw away and replace with stuff people wrote on the forums. The focus on Expressing The Power of the Yozi and their Desires I think makes for a better driver than the reclamation plotline and the charms are all very very fun and cover multiple Yozi per tree.

[prisma sun]

I love the ability to eat murder

[bleak hazel]

I continue to think devil-bodies and soul hierarchy universals are a little bit cracked but the actual charms are good

[velvet raft]

A few objections:

• Chapter 1 of the book is bad. The portrait it paints of the Infernals and the Yozis alike is extremely one-note, and it fails to convey a lot of Hell's specific weirdness in favor of just sorta saying, "it's weird".
• I think the focus on vengeance removes a lot of pathos from Infernals (and indirectly, from the Yozis), compared with the old take of selecting people because they failed. Their charms push them into the aesthetic supervillain role pretty effectively, so having an underlying note of being a fuckup would be more interesting. That said, chapters 2 and 3 of the book seem to mostly abandon this, so.
• They got rid of Adorjan's whole deal, she just generically likes murder now instead of loving you to death. This is honestly the single weirdest lore change in the book so far and I hate it.
• I do think there should be Yozi charms in addition to ability charms, in the ways that Sids have Maiden charms. This isn't really a proper objection, I just feel like it's a missed opportunity.
• Demon Body feels too front-loaded to me, and has a lot of save-or-dies which might cause issues.
• Infernals historically had easier access to sorcery than other splats, and I think removing that is a mistake.

All that said, like. The charms section is great, chapters 2 & 3 are great. We've seen a lot of good stuff.

[tulip folio]

My weird take is that I would have kept some of the 2e relationship with sorcery by moving the 'Do Sorcery' charms from Occult to Neutral Charms Anyone Can Take. So every single infernal has equal access to sorcery.

[velvet raft]

Some things I really like:

• Again, I love the charms. I haven't seen a charm line I didn't like.
• Demon body is really cool and will be a lot of fun to bust out in dramatic moments.
• Reinventing Infernals as sort of ... purposeless celebrities, elevated by the Yozis so they can live vicariously through them is an amazing addition that improves the tone so much.

[tulip folio]

get a tiny demon dog you carry about in a purse

[velvet raft]

YES

And doing shit like that is well-supported by the narrative elements and the charm list!

The charm list interacts with a bunch of heretofore neglected sections of the mechanics, too

Like Presence being all about Cult

[buoyant summit]

I just crashed a legendary size opponent...

[next delta]

Is there a yozi or a second/third demon that is hunger based? I'm a bit surprised at the hunger themes in more than one of the Infernal charmsets

Also, why does Infernal medicine hate vegans

(alternatively, I guess the vegans are better at resisting it)

[prisma sun]

A few i think?

[light olive]

My best idea for a First Circle Demon is like. A group of birds that are one demon who gossip amongst eachother, are gullible, and really bad at remembering their own name.

You can convince them that they have your name and will go out and eavesdrop on anyone talking about you.

[velvet raft]

I love that

[tulip folio]

I'd make the entire group of birds a single demon.

[bleak hazel]

you know, the 6-foot-tall doom jackal that my Abyssal uses as a mount is meant to be really scary but look at this guy

[tulip folio]

So it's a living battlegroup.

[bleak hazel]

that's a good boy right there

he would be quite cute even if he was in fact the size of a small van and carried six people

[tulip folio]

At that point he's a slightly pointier version of totaro's cat bus.

[bleak hazel]

catbus mode is actually one of his innates

I just don't think he's Hideous 2 even if he is a bit mummified

[nova yew]

I LOVE THE JACKALS WHO FEAST ON LIES ❤️

my belovedc

six leggies and and absolute cutieee

actually wait did i hallucinate that they have six legs

...it appears i did

damn

[tulip folio]

Okay, setting up this second circle army leader/anarchist demon. Do you think the following buff is too silly to hand out to troops she's leading?

Creation Reclaiming Riot
-Mortals led by her as Might 1
-Battlegroups led by her increase their Might by +1 if they are fighting Fae, Undead or Gods.
-Troops she leads have their Drill count as one step higher. If it already has elite Drill, it increases two bonus dice on rout checks.

She's designed to turn a bunch of angry rioting peasants into a surprisingly scary force.

So I wanted her to do double duty with shitty troops, not just boost already mighty ones.

[bleak hazel]

seems reasonable

I would likely give her a fairly sedate order pool though

or you just get Sigereth 2

[fierce star]

I like it. I'd probably specify that 'might 0 battlegroups' instead of 'mortal battlegroups', since the latter would include, say, a battlegroup of mortals in gunzhosha armor

[bleak hazel]

and personally I like "I make terrible troops decent" more than "tiger warrior powers goooo"

[fierce star]

who are mortal but probably might 1?

[tulip folio]

I'm actually putting most of her boosts in rally over order to try and make them more distinct.

She's not a genius tactician

But she's very damn good at keeping people running back into the fight.

Also: This is like the one demon who still believes the Reclaimation is a thing. XD

Even after 3e went 'no, that's not a thing any more'

[bleak hazel]

I like that, Rally is underused

mostly because Order is nuts

[tulip folio]

Huge Dice Boost Without A Cap Time!

[tulip folio]

That's fair. She likely shouldn't make power armour mortals better at being mortal combatants 😛

[fierce star]

it's vaguely niche

but it'd also apply to like, beastmen (who are technically mortals but would be might 1) or spiritblooded too

[tulip folio]

Her big things are basicly 'Rally' boost, 'Make mortals a bit less bad' and:

Spark of Revolution: Battlegroups of Mortals or Demons led by Exousia may use the following attack:
Attack(Hellfire Grenades): 8 dice (Damage 12); Tags: Thrown, Flame

Where she hands out a Default Base Attack to any unit she leads that's...okay. It's 'mortal soldiers with javelins' scary. For melee only guys it gives them an Okay Ranged Attack and for Militia-Tier guys it gives them a non-terrible attack.

[fierce star]

you know I bet the silver pact loves this second circle

[light olive]

Okay, now just imaginig. Like. It fights as a battle group, but incompetently

[fierce star]

'hey wanna go fuck up the realm'

[tulip folio]

Oh, 100%. You can very much set it up so that the default Drill is poor.

As there's a lot of them but they're not coordinated for shit

My thoughts on her role as far as summoners are concerned is basicly: You summon her to get a competent unit leader/small unit tactics person.

She's not a grand strategist.

But if you hand her a group of guys and tell her to Go Fuck Shit Up, it will work out pretty solidly.

[fierce star]

hmm

celestial-tier architects. Malfeas and Yu-Shan. Toxic Yuri or Old Man Yaoi?

[lament owl]

Oldd Man Yaoi

[tulip folio]

Introduction to the Stone Prince (6m; Supplemental; Instant; Essence 2)
Exousia adds +4 to the raw damage of a Decisive attack. If the attack deals 3+ levels of damage, the target is Knocked Prone and Exousia may reflexively Rally For Numbers with a number of automatic successes equal to the levels of damage dealt.

She's a frontline leader, so her 'get a reflexive rally for numbers' is contingent on her brutalizing the enemy to inspire her friends.

...I think it's also legally required for me to list one of her weapons as 'god kicking boots'

[fierce star]

I concur

more gods need to be kicked

[buoyant summit]

My dusk circlemate is gonna use the soul of the Gigantes general I crashed and he killed to make me soulsteel silken armor

[tulip folio]

As you do.

[buoyant summit]

Also being the party tank as a moonshadow is fuckin hilarious

[prisma sun]

Btw can anyone do me a favor

and grab me a screenshot of any sufficently meaty Ess2-3 statblock of an Abyssal from their book

I kinda just need something that can Generally Serve as the Drowner of Saints

[nova yew]

ah shit wait thats essence like 4

the other option's a moonshadow

[prisma sun]

Ahhhhhh I'm sure it will be fine

"Considered Restraint" is a fantastic name for an axe

[nova yew]

HAH

[tulip folio]

That statline is also for the dumbest, duskiest dusk who ever dusked.

Like a deathlord tells her 'maybe you should live a bit'

[nova yew]

oh thats hilarious

Her
Deathlord’s relationship with her is one of paternal
indulgence; he favors her even as her temper some-
times leads her to conflict with his goals. She admires
his devotion to the Neverborn and his subversion
of the powerful, though she prefers the honesty of
violence to his deceptions. Recently, he’s taken to
sending her on far-ranging duties to try and teach her
restraint and calm, an approach she’s responded to
with characteristic impatience.

oh man thats adorable actually

[tulip folio]

We mathed backwards to her stats one time and with her dicepools and known stats, she's Social Tertiary, who put all 4 points into appearance.

So she's Charisma 1, Manipulation 1, Appearance 5.

[nova yew]

god bless

[tulip folio]

She is the Most Dusk

[prisma sun]

I also think I've decided "fuck writing stat blocks into foundry"

[velvet raft]

Spells that would be cool for a Sorcerous Martial Art: Hound of Five Winds

[limpid badge]

Metagaos the All-Devouring Blossom

He’s a dark souls swamp that devours all things that find themselves trapped within him

Including virtues and willpower and diseases and light and hope and death

All breaks down into something to easy his endless hunger

[velvet raft]

Hm. Martial arts compatible with heavy armor: Earth Dragon, White Reaper, Thousand Wounds Gear, Live Wire. White Reaper would be the obvious choice for use with a warstrider.

[ruby geyser]

casual reminder that 2e Infernals had a homebrew Metagaos charmset from Revlid

and the shintai charm for it let you turn into SMT Nidhogg

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/0/0d/Nidhoggr.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1200?cb=20190329183538

[nova yew]

Ooo

[ruby geyser]

one of my other favorite bits from it was a set of charms that let you sprout flesh buds from your fingers(or other appendages) and use them as a resource for other charms; one let you put them inside someone to mind control them, i think there was another that let them work as food for people?

[prisma sun]

Slightly less Phallic Khezu

[tulip folio]

...man, working out a good place balance-wise for a second circle demon is tricky

As they're just so damn inconsistant.

Octavian is so stacked he could fight every single other one of them put together. XD

[prisma sun]

When in doubt

ignore core

[tulip folio]

Yeah, just trying to work out the right area to play in for 'Second Circle Demon', where even an exalt doesn't find them an easy fight but they're not so powerful that they got their own cheating excellency (Looking at you Octavian. You're a demon, you're not supposed to have an excellency)

[dense verge]

octavian's an excellent demon

[tulip folio]

He is. It's just tricky when I'm trying to make this second circle demon a Good Beatstick and a Good Leader but not top at either but Octavian is the benchmark for 'beatstick second circle' and could take any 3-4 other second circles at once. XD

[dense verge]

i look at the eventual npcs im going to have to make and try to balance and i elect to not think about that bridge until i reach it

[tulip folio]

'Person grumbles exalted isn't consistant: News at 11'

Attack (God-Kicking Boots): 14 dice (Damage 15, minimum 3); Tags: Smashing

Also: I am very pleased with the weapon choice for a demon who hates gods even by demon standards.

[fierce star]

Love a pair of god-kickers

kick more gods tbh

what have they ever done for us

I didn't vote for them

[coral wraith]

Can you make hearthstones via sorcerous workings or is that more of a Craft deal

[tulip folio]

That's more craft, as that's geomancy

That said, sorcerous workings can do most things

I wouldn't be surprised if one could make a non-manse hearthstone (As those exist!)

[coral wraith]

Gotcha

[tulip folio]

The second circle I'm working on is also profoundly out of date and she has no idea.

Major Principle: "The Reclamation is possible and should be the ultimate goal of fellow Malfeans!"

[tulip folio]

Defining Principle: “It is better for humanity to experience a world of distant and unknowable primordials than the tyranny of the gods.”

Does this make sense for a demon to believe you think?

[nova yew]

yeah i could see it

they can even cite sources like "hey did you notice how like all the disasters happened after the gods went to heaven and the exalted ruled shit?"

and "damn look at what they did to the yozi thats fucked up"

[tulip folio]

Intimacies
Defining Principle: “You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.”
Defining Principle: “It is better for humanity to experience a world of distant and unknowable primordials than the tyranny of the gods.”

Major Principle: "The Reclamation is possible and should be the ultimate goal of fellow Malfeans!"
Major Principle: “Music is a universal energy - it's the sound of a volcano. It's earth shattering. Somewhere in our primal being we understand.”
Major Tie: Theomachy (Righteous Purpose)
Major Tie: Prisoners (Empathy)
Major Tie: A Good Brawl (Excitement)
Major Tie: The Guild (Disgust)

Minor Principle: “The Exalted are class traitors.” 
Minor Tie: Soulsteel (Morose Grief)
Minor Tie: Expensive Tea and Clothes (Embarrassed Enjoyment)

How do these seem so far?

[nova yew]

remind me what the reclamation is

[tulip folio]

It's something from 2e that was basicly 'Hell takes back over'

In 3e it's been clarrified that it's not really possible

[nova yew]

oh also maybe grieving or pitying the neverborn? as examples of the cruelty of the exalted

damn ;-;

[tulip folio]

But nobody said that principles need to be accurate to reality

[nova yew]

listen the exalted turnt malfeas inside out im certain we can just do that again

[tulip folio]

I think I might use the last major and minor for some broadening of character. As she's got a lot of 'angry revolutionary' so far.

[nova yew]

fair enough

[tulip folio]

Okay, updated it with a full list.

[nova yew]

i love this

Minor Tie: Expensive Tea and Clothes (Embarrassed Enjoyment)

OH MY GOS HSO CUTE

CAN I KISS THIS FREAK

giving a character something theyre embarrased about is the fastest way for me to instantly become endeared

[tulip folio]

Yeah, I wanted them to be mostly angry revolutionary but I wanted a bit of 'they're a person'

[limpid badge]

and this means as a demon you can at least bribe them for conversation/knowledge with nice tea

when you burn your once a month second circle summon on her!

[tulip folio]

She's not Octavian-level beaty (Though she's still pretty beaty) but I'm a big fan of her squad leading being more about super morale support than being a Super Tactician.

(She also has an old 2e martial arts charm in her offensive charms as A) It fit her thematics very well B) It's just got a great name.)

[velvet raft]

Sorcery and Martial Arts tomorrowwwwwww

[nova yew]

mornin gk

[velvet raft]

I think I will make Reasonable Infernal when it hits

yo

[nova yew]

got my finals n shit

but while my brain is experiencing the rot- i should make my infernal maid themed :3
for the fun

[velvet raft]

Infernal maid sounds good, yes

Clumsy failure maid prior to Exaltation, hmmmmmm

[nova yew]

Perhaps

I think my concept so far is that she’s just nice

Not much else impressive about her

Just the one not callous exalted oc in my roster I think

Just nice

[velvet raft]

See I love the old Infernal exaltation condition so much that I'm just ignoring the new one entirely for my own purposes

The fundamental characteristic of all Infernals is that they had a chance for greatness and they missed it

In my mental model:

• Solars are those who found the will to do something impossible, so the Exaltation gave them the strength in turn
• Abyssals are those who were not so favored in what could have been their moment of triumph, and died, and received the Exaltation only after their death
• Infernals are those who had a chance to do something that might make one of those two things to happen, and didn't seize it

[velvet raft]

So say you're in a boxing match and you realize your opponent has stuffed his gloves with metal and is otherwise cheating, the exaltation possibility tree is:

• You keep fighting and the solar exaltation comes to you and you win gloriously
• You keep fighting and your opponent kills you, then later Abyssal
• You realize what's happening and take a dive, then later, nursing your bruises in bed and overcome by feelings of your own weakness and cowardice, Infernal

[nova yew]

That’s fair

Though…I kinda like giving room for abyssal’s to be petty fuckin losers

So far only one of our circle mates did something cool and died trying (trying to fight a raksha and had all his bones pulverized)

[velvet raft]

Oh everybody can be a loser in general

[nova yew]

But the other two just died in obscurity

No yeah but what I’m saying is it’s fun to not even have a moment of triumph

Just

Die. And be really really spiteful

[velvet raft]

That's all of them; what I mean is that maybe the Abyssal could have had a moment of triumph if they started glowing gold all of a sudden

But, they didn't

[nova yew]

Fair enough. Maybe.

I just like it being broader

[velvet raft]

And there's maybe some sort of commentary in there about how, in a better world, the solar exaltations wouldn't have been made into Abyssal exaltations and those people would have started glowing gold, but

[ruby geyser]

my understanding has always been that Infernals are absolutely Solars That Missed Their Shot, but the Solar lotto just didn't turn up their number at the right time, and the Yozis send the exaltation carrying demon up to say 'hey sucks you missed your shot, wanna get revenge?'

like the irony of abyssals and infernals is that both probably could have gotten a solar exaltation if they hadn't been corrupted, but because they were the character in question missed their golden moment and either died or became a spiteful failure and gets the offer for the corrupted exaltation afterwards

its just a question of how bad did they fuck up that decides if they go black or green

[velvet raft]

Word on the street is that the one MA in Infernals is going to be called Devil Prince

And that it is a hell pirate style

Presumably to go with Sail being goddamn amazing >_>

[ruby geyser]

But Infernal Monster Style

[velvet raft]

points at brawl

[chilly sluice]

Yeah I assume it's just getting folded into their Brawl

[velvet raft]

Hero styles in general are gone

[chilly sluice]

Similar to how Solsr Brawl had parts of Solar Hero style

[velvet raft]

VBOS is a normal style, Lunar hero is removed, Solar hero is brawl, Terrestrial hero is gone and/or brawl, Dark Messiah is gone, etc etc

[velvet raft]

Y'all I don't have enough merit dots for Roger Smith. This is a tragedy.

I can at least construe Dorothy as another PC, but Norman is definitely a retainer

Fuck someone just accidentally sold me on Getimians

https://tenor.com/iLulLloKmbl.gif

[light olive]

My best idea for Infernal was some sort pf archeologist who wants to find out about primordial races because humanity sucks

[ruby geyser]

Today's Infernals preview includes the solar circle spell Total Annihilation
SOLAR BASEBALL IS BACK

It only gets redirected with Distortion though, instead of when Perfect Parried

[velvet raft]

Just a preview, or did they put things out early?

[ruby geyser]

Just a preview

Rest of the post is more chapter fiction

[velvet raft]

Tragic

[ruby geyser]

Also new TA is a timed environmental hazard instead of a one-time burst

And it inflicts Green Sun Wasting

So the magical nuke comparison is unavoidable

[velvet raft]

Hm I'd love to get Larceny in there but I'm not sure what I'd drop ... I feel like I need Presence to make big speeches.

[prisma sun]

Drop that linguistics dot

Reading is for nerds

[velvet raft]

Unfortunately Roger Smith can in fact read

TBH the real answer is that Norman should be a Twilight or something and he should handle the Craft stuff

[velvet raft]

Manipulation feels a little low and physical stats are a little high but overall this seems about right

https://tenor.com/1xdi.gif

[ruby geyser]

id think roger would be a solar with a warstrider personally

its been a hot minute since ive watched Big O though

[velvet raft]

I'm doing Lunar with a warstrider

I think Roger's a little more of a raw competencies sort of guy, personally

But also I started from "I want to make a Lunar who uses Neritoum"

And it gradually became Roger

Norman is either a solar or a sid, Angel is a get, and Dorothy is an alch

[tulip folio]

Here is an odd one - Is there any charms that last until the end of the current turn? Basicly: I'm pondering what defensive charms there are that can be used to break a flurry that are not just 'fuck it, zooming away from the attacker'.

[velvet raft]

There's charms that last one tick

[next delta]

I saw some in Infernals that let you spend extra motes to do that (or maybe last until the start of your next turn if that's different)

[velvet raft]

And charms that last until the next round

[tulip folio]

One tick is the wording I'm thinking of, yeah.

[velvet raft]

Like there's definitely some martial arts charms that increase duration to one tick with Mastery

Just off the top of my head

[next delta]

Oh, I never really appreciated the tick vs single attack distinction

[tulip folio]

Yeah, I was trying to remember at 4am what the wording exalted uses when doing up a charm. XD

[velvet raft]

Yeah, the one tick thing means that if there are multiple things on that tick, it applies against all of them

Often charming the shit out of a lot of attacks gets really expensive for the attacker in addition to the defender, so this can be a big advantage

[bleak hazel]

ordering drinks with Jacint: and one more for the road

(I'll be here all week)

[velvet raft]

Booooooo

Get off the stage

[bleak hazel]

oh yes, we have Total Annihilation preview now

even more nuclear than it was in previous editions, it is very much just LEGALIZE NUCLEAR BOMBS

and also basically harmless to peer combat exalts

even a Thousand-Corpse Goliath is literally going to walk through it and out the other side, albeit fairly heavily charred and probably blind

but it's an army-killer in a can

[coral wraith]

Any chance of taking a look?

[nova yew]

Is that just gonna be your benchmark?

[bleak hazel]

look, it's my preferred kind of giant doom minion and also one of the only fungible ones

you can't have two Octavians

[nova yew]

True

[velvet raft]

It is kind of funny how a starting character at full health has enough health levels that it cannot blackened smear them

It might kill them with the shockwave

[next delta]

It's funny that even with the control spell, you have to move to not get hit by it yourself

[velvet raft]

https://youtu.be/Z4QhQNEBdvM?si=_QwtsHuI7lcgNQGQ&t=54

[bleak hazel]

unsure if it hits you only once or once per round you're inside the light

I think it might do like 20 levels

[velvet raft]

Lemme read it again

[ruby geyser]

Not with that attitude

[tulip folio]

That sounds like coward talk.

[velvet raft]

It always counts as a source of recurring uncountable damage for Charms capable of defending against them.
This suggests it's once a round, as would I think a strict reading more generally

So it's a slow nuke, but that does feel more nuke-ish :D

[bleak hazel]

I wonder what the cheapest TA shrug is

I think The Centre Must Hold is a strong candidate, 4 motes no reset

[velvet raft]

Centre Must Hold is wild

Strong candidate for first Essence 2 charm to grab

[tulip folio]

Centre Must hold?

[bleak hazel]

Sid Resistance "perfect"

4m for +1TN on a decisive damage roll and ignore uncountable, no reset

4m 1wp for +2TN, 1/whatever

[tulip folio]

Ah, fun

With a name like that i thought db

[tulip folio]

This is how Shaping Combat worked in 2e.

[limpid badge]

this is true, because shaping combat is playing nobilis for a little bit

[nova yew]

Oh god lmao

[tulip folio]

Eternal Revolution: Exousia’s nature of a breaker of limits allows her a capacity for growth that many demons find difficult. She often has 1-5 additional Martial Arts Charms, Spells, Evocations or Action dicepools at any given time based on her recent dalliances with particular paths. However, her refusal to keep to any singular training means that she tends to forget them before long and few will last beyond the length of a single story.

When the demon has attention span issues.

[coral wraith]

🫵 adhd

[nova yew]

im having a good time skimming the dragon blood book and man

i love seeing all the ways this culture fucked up my pc lmao

also pog board games

[velvet raft]

Exusiai?!

https://tenor.com/view/exusiai-the-new-covenant-arknights-yippie-gif-4934882651703129178

[tulip folio]

Hahah, not quite. It's a bit of an ironic name.

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-exusiai-angel-confused-dizzy-gif-15630974669602071569

[tulip folio]

Exousia is a greek work meaning authority, as in 'has the power to do'

So like, Jesus has Exousia to Forgive Sins.

[nova yew]

woah pretty

[coral wraith]

love me a good spirit-frog

[tulip folio]

To hear Exousia tell the story, which many newcomers to Malfeas must unfortunately do, life under the Primordials was vastly better than it is under the dominion of Yu-Shan. The Primordials were titanic, destructive and powerful but there was no malice to their nature. They were forces of nature, not tyrants. Now, when one farm suffers and another prospers, it is the decision of the gods. It is only when the sun is impaled upon the loom of fate itself that humanity will truly be free.

She is also a barrel of nuclear hot takes.

[velvet raft]

https://tenor.com/view/exusiai-my-beloved-heart-locket-gif-27376429

[nova yew]

okay now im thinking about the fucking power move of, as an abyssal exalted, pulling out all the fucking High realm etiquitte to demand a visit and if you attack me while im in your house you're not only cringe you're dishonorable

like

that would be funny

[velvet raft]

Here I’mma make it even better for you: she’s Quaker Jesus

[nova yew]

omg yay

[velvet raft]

She got an alter recently called Exusiai The New Covenant

[tulip folio]

The funny thing: Alchemicals can do the same thing in Malfeas. They can turn up and say, 'Hey, I'm here on primordial authority for diplomacy' and all the demons have to go '...fuck, they're not wrong. Autocthon's still a primordial...'

[nova yew]

thats fair

but also thats divine diplomacy rules

the fucking hilarity of doing that to like

a dragon-blood who is ostensibly kinda human underneath all that divinity is...

i do like the power move diplomacy

[velvet raft]

Hm, what alchemical caste is Dorothy Wainwright ...

https://tenor.com/rFuRGePgikN.gif

[tulip folio]

Starmetal or Adamant, I think.

She's calculating and very logical but often takes a supportive role.

To hear Exousia tell the story, which many newcomers to Malfeas must unfortunately do, life under the Primordials was vastly better than it is under the dominion of Yu-Shan. The Primordials were titanic, destructive and powerful but there was no malice to their nature. They were forces of nature, not tyrants. Now, when one farm suffers and another prospers, it is the decision of the gods. It is only when the sun is impaled upon the loom of fate itself that humanity will truly be free.

A Second Circle soul of Cytherea, Exousia is the spark that sets aflame men’s hearts and drives them to spill the blood of gods upon the stairs of their own temples. When a divine headsman’s axe falls upon the neck of a dreamer of a better tomorrow, she is there to catch the blade upon her own.

Friendly and jovial, her smiles hide a vitriolic flame that consumes all it touches. It is not enough simply to humble a god, the traitor must be put to the flame. One cannot build a better future without consuming all that would taint it in the pyre. Those who would argue for moderation are enemies to the cause, counterrevolutionaries who plead for the sake of their masters.

Upon the battlefield, she bellows and sings, the sound of crashing metal an accompaniment to her voice. Those who serve with her find their souls growing beyond their bodies, skin cracking and peeling as the furnace of their revolutionary spirit is revealed. The bravest of these souls are taken with her to be reborn in Malfeas, so that they can fight eternally.

The one god she holds confused feelings about is ironically Wu Ja, the Director of Humanity. This comes from a time, centuries ago, when an unfortunate Sidereal believed he could control Exousia and accidentally let her free upon Yu Shan itself. She was finally halted in her chaos by the director herself asking her a question she could not answer: Had she been there, when humanity rebelled against the Primordials…would she have been the one to crush humanity’s dreams?

How's this read for a second circle demon?

[nova yew]

oh i love her

i adore her

can i hold her

like hamburger?

[tulip folio]

Hahahah. I'm glad you like her. She's still 100% a demon. She doesn't do proportionality worth a damn but she's not really malicious, as I wanted to stress that well...demons are people.

[nova yew]

oh yeah no

from my understanding of demons this seems like a solid demon

which is
not human, doesnt measure value in a human way, kinda a freak

but y'know

a person

[velvet raft]

10/10 demon

[nova yew]

yea no 10/10 demon i want to hug her

and i cant tell if my brain is too tired based on sleep deprivation cus im always about to type "i wanna kiss her" but thats incomprehensible rn

[tulip folio]

In other cool things: More RiRi art. Just sketches so far but is going to be sticker-sized little arts for me to put in the game channel whenever I need her to Have An Expression.

[nova yew]

EEEEEE

SHE'S SO

HER

wwaw

gasp!!!!

have you seen my doodles of our abyssal circle

[velvet raft]

Would summon again

[nova yew]

put her in yu-shan again

she deserves it

one more time

[tulip folio]

I have not but I would love to see them!

[nova yew]

Iron Chains Break Minds
Broken Ivory Dirge Resonance
and The Grave Calls For Its Due

buncha freaks we are

[tulip folio]

Oooh, very fun

They all look cool

[nova yew]

we're all freaks

we're the mask of winters' pet abyssals more or less. chains over there was participating in the invasion of Thorns, and the other two are currently helping out with the occupation/general logistics of the matter

we're very much leaning into our circle being....well, a circle of villains

idk if we stay that way or not, i have no idea how hte story is gonna go, but we're uh
...not great?

Ivory over there, second image, is the nicest of us

he wields huskflayer too

[tulip folio]

They do seem that way. I hope you have a ball with it!

[nova yew]

yeah!
first real session is this thursday

so im hyped

this is my first experience with exalted! :3

ru's done a great job introducing me to the setting

[velvet raft]

I really gotta find a game that exists in a place other than my skull

[coral wraith]

yes

[velvet raft]

All the games I've actually managed to be in have been short-lived ;_;

Unrelated: hmmmmmmm

HMMMMMMM

One more for the road: hm

[nova yew]

There’s a connection to “numberless blows technique” and a terrible joke but I can’t actually execute the punchline between the words

I haven’t slept tonight either

[velvet raft]

Please sleep Karen

[nova yew]

It’s my last exam!!!!

[velvet raft]

That's why you should sleep

[nova yew]

Afterwards I’ll be sleep maxxing sooooooo hard

[nova yew]

No no gk

It’s in like

An hour

[velvet raft]

Oh yeah

But like in principle

[nova yew]

I know the principles

Don’t worry

Shit just happens

I’ll be so resting after all this

Big rest moments

[velvet raft]

That is good, but I have a whole old man yelling at cloud lecture ready for you when you wake up

[nova yew]

Explode

[velvet raft]

explodes

SO AS I WAS SAYING

[nova yew]

Yes yea I know sleep is important for my body and I need to take care of myself and that it’s critical for me but also college is a high priority so if I gotta hurt a bit well shit it’s gonna hurt a bit

[velvet raft]

I'll get back to you post-exam :D

Good luck tho

[nova yew]

❤️

[velvet raft]

... god, I didn't even notice this one. Crystal Chameleon likes unexpected attacks a bunch. PAoC has this:

The synergy between these three styles is ridiculous

[tulip folio]

RAINBOW DISCO COMBO GO!

[velvet raft]

Rainbow disco centipede combo go

But I guess to some extent this is the whole point with MA

You have an absurdly wide hypothetical kit

But it can be expensive

[tulip folio]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xkXdfdzwCZbYb1Dwekt72qg_Uw8Mq81Ayv1eg_NWEr8/edit?usp=sharing Okay, I think she's done. She's not Octavian powerful but she's still very much on the brawly end and she's less of a Complete Shithead than Octavian if you want someone who can be sneaky or social.

[bleak hazel]

also if you're comboing this on a Sid you probably want Brawl too

Brawl versatile has an onslaught negator, Speared Boar Struggle, Unobstructed Blow and the three defence charms leading to and including DSD

[velvet raft]

Yep, I have Unobstructed Blow up there already :D

[velvet raft]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H0kzQxXugyqAVtWO64kzn3QBrTx_C6NguXH03Y5Ngrc/edit?ouid=116323629680933856134&usp=sheets_home&ths=true Was bored, added exp expenditures up to getting PAOC form

Sidereals remain cool

It's kinda nice how most abilities have a smaller number of high-impact, low-essence charms for those who don't want to specialize a ton

So that they can pick up some good stuff and do martial arts stuff

[bleak hazel]

Unusual Hide shows up once again

best value merit NA

(and EU, and most other places)

[velvet raft]

I was just legitimately unsure what to do with those seven merit dots

And I figured "yeah, sure, Anys Syn would have her disciple hold a horse stance in a Wyldfall just to see what would happen"

Anyway, sorcery chapter is out

AMA

Good start

Compatible with axes, too, which means we now have this and Hungry Ghost

(Which means it's also compatible with Unweaving Method)

Okay sick

Abyssals and Sids are gonna love this

[prisma sun]

Is this just a scimitar?

[mighty rover]

but spiky

[velvet raft]

Technically it's its own thing

So not a ton of compatibility with other styles

Use it with the upcoming Steel Devil fix, maybe?

That'd be cool

Summary of pre-form charms

• Do a fear instill and an attack with the same roll
• Do a disarm or distract and damage with the same roll
• Penalize an attack by someone afraid of you

[prisma sun]

Jesus thats so easy to get into

[velvet raft]

Summary of post-form charms

• Do extra damage to afeared foes, increase their wound penalties and apply their wound penalty to their soak
• Clash an enemy attack and do a bit of damage on success, penalizing an afeared opponent's attack roll
• After doing decisive damage, do a multi-target instill of fear that also makes them lose some initiative. If incapacitating, damages afeared opponents a bit
• Pinnacle charm: after a distract or disarm, do a shitload of damage unless the opponent takes a crippling injury

Alright, so that's devil prince

New sorcerous initiations start with one about being a dancing demon, which includes this gem of a merit

[prisma sun]

Is the pinnacle charm and actual attack

Or do you just like

Make them have a heart attack

[prisma sun]

New meta unlocked

Stanweld Demonblood

[prisma sun]

Thats so fucking funny

Scares you so hard your arm flies off

[velvet raft]

Next initiation is "you ate a devil fruit"

Literally

No One Piece references, alas

@prisma sun Relevant to your (character's) interests

[prisma sun]

Fuck yes

Cannibalism meta is here

[velvet raft]

Third initiation appears to be "I went to that crypto town in Texas on purpose and got superpowers from it"

(The one with the facility running at 90 dB)

Oh okay this is cool

Incidentally, a mention of Malfeas being ultra-noisy all the time

So that seems to have been an oversight earlier, not a deliberate omission

Fourth initiation is Evil Yoga

[prisma sun]

So yoga

[velvet raft]

So we got evil dancing, evil juice cleanse, evil noise music, and evil yoga

[prisma sun]

Infernals are white women

To the last

[chilly sluice]

Getting to completely avoid onslaught if they have the correct intimacy feels strong

[velvet raft]

Notably they don't get to ignore magic onslaught, but yeah, this is a strong style

Also, only the pinnacle charm has Mastery

So very nice for Celestial exalts in general

Nice little addition to the mind-hand line

(From evil yoga)

[nova yew]

Gasp……

[velvet raft]

Spells: we've got a SWLIHN-themed spell that makes you explode for acting on your principles

Or less explode and more "repeated spontaneous combustion"

"Throw goo at people" is another one

[chilly sluice]

The goop

[velvet raft]

Insert joke about Gwyneth Paltrow

Next spell: you put a fool mask on someone, and everyone treats them like a fool now XD

[chilly sluice]

Now they are booboo the fool 😔

[velvet raft]

Spell: you can make someone throw up a marble with one of their emotions in it. This weakens intimacies

Alright, that's it for Terrestrial!

[chilly sluice]

That's hilarious

Turning intimacies into something tangible is always really fun to me

[velvet raft]

Celestial spells!

The first one ... makes a road.

[chilly sluice]

Albicant Sepulchre chaining you down with your intimacies is one I really like

[velvet raft]

It can be a bridge or something

But

Honestly kind of eh

Next, a spell that lets you nail someone's soul to the ground, so that they can't go very far away from it

Another one makes a big group of people extremely paranoid

They must all be in the same room, but it can be a big room

[fierce star]

oh I like that

[prisma sun]

Well its a good combo for going devil prince sicko mode

[velvet raft]

Okay, this one catches my attention. You steal someone's shadow (which they become obsessed with getting back), and can employ it as a summon

As the control effect, you can instead keep the shadow on your person and gain a few of the summon's powers

Not hugely important stuff but

[prisma sun]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-ready-princess-and-the-frog-dancing-performing-dance-gif-17896418

ARE YOU REAAADY

[ruby geyser]

n, Heart Razor Strike(the first charm) has mastery as well(if you get 3+ successes over the target's Resolve, the intimacy created counts as 1 step stronger for the rest of the scene)

[velvet raft]

Aha

For my next trick, this spell summons a giant dematerialized slug

Aaaaand that's it for Celestial

I was really hoping we'd get something with a control effect I found compelling

No such luck. :|

That said, we've got 15 pages of solar circle spells now

The first spell summons an army of first-circle demons

With control, we can telepathically command them, and all first circle demons have to show respect

Next is a spell that turns water into Evil Fire

CHARIOT OF THE BLAZING SUN: You and a bunch of other people can go fast until sunset

750 mph fast

Also it can travel between Heaven, Creation, and Hell

As well as layers of Hell

[prisma sun]

That's pretty fast.

[velvet raft]

It is explicitly noted as the speed for shorter journeys: in principle, it can go from one end of creation to the other in a single day if cast at sunrise

Hand of the World-Makers: Precision earth-rearranging tech

[chilly sluice]

Finally, the World Maker's Hand

[velvet raft]

Huh

Actually I'm just gonna post this whole one

(Minion stats follow etc)

[prisma sun]

oh

[velvet raft]

NEXT the Mirror of Symmetrical Opposition: this one causes an identical counterattack to decisive attacks for one scene. The control lets it be a clash, instead

bwahahahahaha

[ruby geyser]

Invoking the Eyeless Face and Sentinel of the Panopticon both fuck imo

[velvet raft]

Giant sky eyeball

Has a sick control benefit, too

Sovereign Apparition of Thunder summons a spear that makes deafening noise when used, and if you throw the spear at the sky it delivers a message audible for Essence * 50 miles

"The Wandering Earth" is a movie reference

But as a spell, it causes a large area of earth to rise up and start moving

It also creates a Demesne in the area if there wasn't one already

[ruby geyser]

it makes a sacred site that can be attuned to like a demesne, but it provides none of the usual benefits unless there was already a demesne or manse in the area

[velvet raft]

Total Annihilation we've already discussed, which takes us to a spell that turns down the ambient Humes in a big area, making everything unreal for 5 days

The outside world is completely imperceptible for the duration and nothing that happens inside "counts" once the spell duration is up

Unity of the Closed Fist is back!

[next delta]

The minions preferring to commit suicide than return to the void is fucked up

[velvet raft]

Finally, Winds of Confusion: it conjures a hurricane that robs people of their mental faculties

So, that's the chapter

[velvet raft]

@buoyant summit https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1044690352352788571/1445012812870058005/image.png?ex=6939588d&is=6938070d&hm=d9bdbd9a24dada4fde65f975cd509f4bcc3d91c7461cd578d81efe1370d532e6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1240&height=820

[buoyant summit]

l m a o

I don't think that lets me do shit like use water charms with sword attacks if I have fire form but l m a o

[velvet raft]

Yeah, tragically it doesn't adapt form weapons

Pretty rad though

potentially usable by a Sid or Solaroid with PAoC bullshit

It does let you use fire charms while in water aura

Which, amusingly, was one of the big benefits of the dragon styles in 2e!

The elemental restrictions on charms were much nastier at the time

Unless you knew a relevant dragon style, in which case you counted as that element too

[tulip folio]

Lunars/Alchemicals coming for demon sword style.

Soulsteel Alch with demon sword style is likely very mean.

[velvet raft]

Do alchs have good threaten tech?

[tulip folio]

In manipulation and Soulsteel anima

[velvet raft]

Excellent

Then yeah

This is a style all about threaten

[buoyant summit]

Abyssals are also gonna like the style tbh, to the point I am considering whether it's worth it to invest in MA as my Moonshadow

[tulip folio]

They've got one that lets them treat any social to reduce an existing intimacy as ALSO one about instilling terror.

As they go Bad Cop mode

[velvet raft]

Yeah, Abyssals love this

Also, it's usable with either Even Blade + VBOS, or with Hungry Ghost

[fierce star]

I mean the iconic soulsteel was for two editions an expy of Judge Dread

they'd better have good threaten tech lmao

[tulip folio]

Hey, he's Judge Dred if Dred was also an Elric

[fierce star]

comeo n, he's a male exalt, every single male exalt is at least a little bit Elric

[ruby geyser]

Swan?

[tulip folio]

The Base Soulsteel anima ability is pretty good for it.

Inhuman Terror (5m; Supplemental; Instant): The Alchemical adds (higher of Essence or 3) non-Charmdice on a threaten roll. Once per day, she can retry a failed threaten roll without resetting it.

3-5 non-charm dice and a 1/day free redo a fail.

As threaten is covered by the 'hey, I failed, I can't make the same arguments again very easily' social rules

Rogue Cell Isolation Protocols
Cost: 4m; Mins: Manipulation 2, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: NoneDuration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Alchemical’s eyes are rimmed with chrome and soulsteel plating, turning her steely gaze into a hall of mirrors filled with tortured souls.

The Alchemical doubles 9s on an instill roll to weaken an Intimacy that conflicts with a character’s responsibilities, duties, or social position within a group or community. She converts bonus dice from Transpuissant Manipulation Upgrade to automatic successes. She can’t weaken positive Ties to communities she serves.

If the Alchemical succeeds, affected characters can’t voluntarily strengthen the targeted Intimacy until the next time they regain Willpower from resting.

Submodules
Priority Recalibration Protocol (6xp; Manipulation 3): The Alchemical can use this Charm to weaken any Intimacy, except for positive Ties to communities that she serves.

Instructive Fear Resonator (3xp; Manipulation 4): The Alchemical’s influence also counts as a roll to instill a Tie of fear toward herself. This fails against characters with Major or Defining Intimacies that oppose such fear.

Emotional Irrelevance Systems (3xp; Manipulation 5, Essence 2): Affected characters can’t voluntarily strengthen the weakened tie until (8 − their base Resolve) days have passed.

Mind-Scouring Erasure (6xp; Essence 3, Instructive Fear Resonator, Emotional Irrelevance Systems) (+1wp): For a one-Willpower surcharge, characters can’t use the targeted Intimacy to bolster their Resolve against this influence or resist it in a Decision Point. This is a Psyche effect. The Alchemical can’t use this submodule against a character more than once per story.

Heresy-Excising Razor (6xp; Mind-Scouring Erasure) (+1wp): For a one-Willpower surcharge, the Alchemical lowers the level of supporting Intimacy needed to weaken a Major or Defining Intimacy by one (Exalted, p. 215). This is a Psyche effect.

The base alchemical manipulation charm is 'tear down a guy's biggest intimacies, he can't resist it using that intimacy and make a tie of fear towards me'

...oh, they also have a submodule for 'Intimidate better if the other guy is hurt'

Which feels like it would work with this well.

Transcendent Brutality Programming
Cost: 3m; Mins: Manipulation 2, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
Soulsteel needles running along the Alchemical’s spine retract inward, suspending her sense of empathy as she becomes a heartless figure of dread.

The Alchemical rerolls 1s until they cease to appear on a threaten roll. Any bonus dice from Clarity (p. XX) are converted to non-Charm successes.

Submodules
Exhaustive Interrogation Programming (3xp; Manipulation 3): The Alchemical rerolls 2s as well if she receives any dice from Clarity or if her target suffers a wound penalty.

Lingering Horror Scars (3xp; Manipulation 4): The Alchemical’s roll also counts as an instill roll to weaken an Intimacy based on courage, hope, recklessness, or other emotions that might give her victim the will to resist her intimidation. This fails against characters with Major or Defining Intimacies that oppose this.

Alchemical Manipulation is 'Do you have a loicence for that intimacy?'

Compliance Assurance Drone is also pretty good for this Sword Alch.

Costs a willpower but adds 'Take <Essence> hardness ignoring lethal damage' to the cost to resist a threaten result.

If they don't resist it, the drone is now inside them and they take 1 lethal die of damage and increase their wound penalty by 1 for a turn whenever they disobey the Alch's orders (Doesn't take an action for the alch, just happens).

So the Alch can tag a guy with it go 'Stop Fighting' and every turn the guy he's scaring shitless takes 1 lethal damage whenever he tries to fight back.

...personality overide spike is a threaten roll and works with Martial Arts, explicitly.

Huehuehuehue

I don't think it would be as good as Abyssals on the Threaten side but they do have the 'non-mastery martial arts are lovely for alchs' aspect.

[buoyant summit]

I have picrewed my Water Deeb

Yes, that is a 14 year old with two facial scars from full-contact unarmored sparring

No, they don't have good parents

[fierce star]

I mean this with love in my heart, please do not take this the wrong way, this is extremely amusing and I giggleda bout it, but
this looks like sokka and zuko had a gay baby and I am all for this

[buoyant summit]

Yes

You have Divined It

Well Done

XD

[fierce star]

Yay!

[chilly sluice]

this is pretty much a given for a lot of Deebs tbh 😛

[fierce star]

My deep internal connection to gay shipping wins again

[buoyant summit]

Especially shit ones then lol

They are the last and only Exalted child of one Ledaal Shayur and the result of an extramarital affair with a servant

Thusly their mother has always had exacting standards for them as the sole new Dragonblooded produced by her branch of the family, and their 'father' resents them for being pressured to accept them as his child

They are also, as a Water Deeb in House Ledaal, not treated as well or held up as exemplary as much as their Air Deeb cousins

Growing up they showed a serious talent for martial arts, expressed as being a 5-dot Even Blade stylist by their entrance into secondary school, and their mother has elected to send them to the Heptagram to be more like their sorcerously able cousins

No, they did not get a say