Exalted

[velvet raft]

"My charms do everything" vs. "I have charms in everything"

[bleak hazel]

one bonus point for the melee route is that it incidentally grabs Holistic Arsenal Methodology for unrelated tech

which means you are heavily mechanically incentivised to carry about seven weapons

artifact hook-sword x2, umbrella shield, spare shield, war-fan, cosh for smashing attacks, a belt that turns into a whip for Flexible, whatever other tags you like

[tulip folio]

Obviously the concept is also very classic Lunar but I did have a fun idea...

Infernal Sun Wukong, who's First Circle Demon who delivered the exaltation/melded with them was a Blood Ape.

[velvet raft]

Yessssss

That is good

[bleak hazel]

I need to pick a coadjutor for Infernal Diabolik

agata, maybe

[velvet raft]

And do it as a twist on classic Sun Wukong just kind of being a special, perfect boy

[tulip folio]

Make them one of those 'living in just the worst shitty heaven slums' humans who live in heaven to serve the gods.

[velvet raft]

Who did everything right on the first try

Someone trying to be Sun Wukong who knows, in his heart, that he isn't.

[tulip folio]

Infernal Exalt, Cause Chaos in Yu Shan, get yeeted out of the city.

[velvet raft]

My dumb star-crossed lovers idea is not unlike this

[tulip folio]

I'm also realizing this rapidly becoming less 'Goku Sun Wukong' and more Vegeta. XD

[bleak hazel]

personally when bouncing Sids off Infernals I actually prefer "Detective Sid and Criminal Infernal go to Malfeas" purely because Malfeas is great and I want to poke it

[velvet raft]

That's true!

[bleak hazel]

"I summon Adorjan"
"Please don't, she's right over there already"

[velvet raft]

Criminal Sid and Detective Infernal

[tulip folio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl_HfTZ69Xw Mortal in Yu Shan earning an Infernal Exaltation after seeing all the Sids.

[velvet raft]

Now the tricky thing is, how does the coadjutator get to Yu-Shan?

My suspicion is shenanigans

[tulip folio]

I was thinking they just walked the hell in on Calibration.

When heaven's doors are wide open

[velvet raft]

Oh true

[bleak hazel]

"hi I'm here on embassy business K bye" also works but is a bit odd for a blood ape

[velvet raft]

I do have this mental image of the demon being scared out of its fuckin' wits prior to doing the merge, possibly because it overstayed?

[tulip folio]

'I'm here as an emmisary'
Guards: Doubt
'I'm here as an emmisary to battles"
Guards: "...yeah, seems fair."

[tulip folio]

Oh 100%. it was likely not a remotely dignified time for anyone involved.

[bleak hazel]

heaven does have a large series of martial arts freak arenas where various combat-oriented badasses beat each other up

possibly a few blood apes hanging around there having a great time

[fierce star]

It used to be a whole thing with the Virtues back when theyw ere a thing, too

[bleak hazel]

there's even a district that has a yearly festival dedicated to the Great Maker, despite not really knowing what the Great Maker is

[velvet raft]

My idiot concept is that an Infernal ends up as the guy who signs the paychecks in Yu-Shan, and so is protected from the Bronze Faction by every single corrupt god wanting their goddamn money on time

Infernal bursar

Bureaucracy specialist

[knotty island]

Can I get an explanation on Yu-Shan?

[prisma sun]

Its Heaven

The residence of the gods as a floating continent

[velvet raft]

Enormous city in another dimension

[tulip folio]

It's also the biggest city in existance and has a massive wealth divide.

A lot of people have literally no income save for what they are given by social security, while popular gods have enough wealth they could bankrupt entire creation-side nations

As prayer literally turns into income

[velvet raft]

Home of the gods and spirits, and of the five bureaus

[bleak hazel]

even the slums are huge piled-together heaps of ancient palaces, the streets are literally paved with gold and it doesn't matter

not made for humans, it's the city of the Celestial Bureaucracy and, at least in previous editions, about the size of Australia

[tulip folio]

And nearly as full of spiders as australia!

[velvet raft]

The Primoridals used to live there

[tulip folio]

Since being a god is literally a popularity contest, there's a lot of infernal political fighting and backstabbing as damage to your reputation can cost you 'being able to live in a nice place in the middle of the city'.

[knotty island]

I see. And as a Lunar, this is not my place?

[bleak hazel]

I would not hang around there, no

[velvet raft]

It is where Luna lives

But uh, it's sid territory

[bleak hazel]

Yu-Shan is vast and incredibly eclectic, basically anyone can do stuff there for a bit

[velvet raft]

And the sids and lunars are not typically on good terms

[knotty island]

playing a lunar in a game with 2 sids. Oh no.

gkathellar (he/him) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161699000836165714 message) And the sids and lunars are not typically on good terms

[bleak hazel]

they're not going to kill you in the street, but the Bronze Faction (and the regular security of Heaven, the celestial lions) won't be too happy about it if you are Obviously A Lunar

[tulip folio]

There are mortals who live there. They eat on plates of gold and live in manors that those in creation would weep to see and they're still miserable.

[bleak hazel]

got to be covert about it

[tulip folio]

Because it's not a city for them. It has no place for them, except to serve the gods.

[knotty island]

I am er. I am kitsunemimi. I believe this falls under "obviously a lunar".

[bleak hazel]

not even close, it's the city of the gods

[tulip folio]

And the gods don't need that many mortals

[velvet raft]

There are all kinds of weirdoes walking around

[bleak hazel]

"has a fox tail" is like top 10% most normal guy you pass on the street

comparing to baseline human anyway

[knotty island]

I have the ears too. But that's about all.

[tulip folio]

In Yu Shan you'd likely spot an Elemental Kitsune and a Divine Kitsune wandering about before you spot a lunar.

[prisma sun]

The Gold faction doesnt have any particular affection for Lunars i think

[velvet raft]

Hell, even in Creation there are people who just have animal ears or whatever

[bleak hazel]

also you are a Lunar, you can always just turn into whatever the fuck else

[knotty island]

True, true.

[prisma sun]

Problem

You are in the city of the gods

[velvet raft]

Or much stranger things

[prisma sun]

And gods can always sniff out Exalts

Measure of the Wind

[tulip folio]

Luckily you have a very important tool with those gods: Apathy.

[knotty island]

But yes er, I have heard that we have 2 Sidereals in the party on official business, and I am the third member. Does this cause. Compatibility issues?

[tulip folio]

Most of them don't give enough of a shit to do anything.

[bleak hazel]

average meeting in Yu-Shan, as depicted in the sid book

the Sids are probably not spending much time at home

they come down to creation to do their actual job

[prisma sun]

The police are giant stone lions

[velvet raft]

And yes, they are bastards

[tulip folio]

Honestly there's a solid chance if you meet a Sid in Yu Shan they're going to go 'I'm not on the clock, I am not spending my day off dealing with Lunar Nonsense'

[velvet raft]

All giant stone lions are bastards

[bleak hazel]

there is also a solid chance they are a committed Bronze and you are about to have a really bad weekend, though

[knotty island]

Understandable.

[tulip folio]

Oh yes. There's a variety of options but it's not like 'It is divine here, you are likely to get eaten by a Sid' territory.

[bleak hazel]

Lunars and Sids have spent the last millenium killing each other on and off, there's a huge stack of bad blood there

[knotty island]

But yes, I am trying to understand how the party composition, centred in Creation, will work. I believe we actually have a party NPC as well.

[limpid badge]

let’s summon the ones from hell I love those guys

[knotty island]

Who is also a Lunar.

[buoyant summit]

No, the NPCs are not in the party lol

[knotty island]

I mean SQ.

[buoyant summit]

Exalted is waaaaaaay too complex for me to pull that

Yes

She is Essence 3

[mighty rover]

even library lions?

[buoyant summit]

She is firmly an npc

XD

[knotty island]

I see.

[prisma sun]

Again Misc, I dont think Gold and Bronze have too much of a difference of opinion on Lunars

Gold arent just "the good guys" anymore

[buoyant summit]

I think he more meant a Sid who's willing to deal with shit off the clock of that nature because they're a particularly dedicated Bronze

[velvet raft]

The golds are a lot less likely to drop by Chejop's office and mention it, I think

[tulip folio]

It also looks like going by the Infernal book that hell is going to also be much more of a 'Oh yeah, you can visit and wander about and do stuff' place. It always was to some extent but 3e seems to be pushing it even more that way.

Which I like

[knotty island]

But from what I understand, there may be a rivalry in the party, but the work comes first, and we may as well let this lunar live because they are being useful?

[tulip folio]

'X is useful' covers a multitude of sins both literal and metaphorical with heaven.

[buoyant summit]

Also if I was making a DMPC I'd make a different exalt and not steal your thunder

[velvet raft]

To some degree, killing random Lunars is also just a waste of time

[tulip folio]

Lunars take a lot of killing. The return on investment isn't great.

[velvet raft]

Like yes, Wyld Hunts get organized to do it

[knotty island]

I see.

[bleak hazel]

Yu-Shan is not an unassailable orbital fortress that they can just call down stuff from, but it's also hot in the same sense that if I was a Lunar I would not want to wander around in the populated bits of the Blessed Isle without a good reason

[prisma sun]

A Gold is just as likely to be a dedicated to their job as a Bronze

[bleak hazel]

yes, but the difference is in what they see as "their job"

[prisma sun]

And part of that job is dealing with Exalts

[velvet raft]

Their job isn't killing lunars

[bleak hazel]

Bronzes are far more likely to see "phone up the Wyld Hunt" as a direct part of their everyday duties, even if it's not technically on the missions list

[velvet raft]

Bronze faction does it because they're ideologically dedicated to keeping the DBs in power

[knotty island]

Whereas Young Bǎihé is er. Well she's back at Essence 1, but is a cocky little shit who wants to live up to her old self, who was an elder.

[tulip folio]

Oh and heaven is also the home of the Loom of Fate, who's agents are cool little spiders who's poison can Final Destination you by fucking up your fate.

[knotty island]

Emphasis on the was though.

[velvet raft]

Exalted are not categorically the enemy

The Bureau of Destiny takes actions to bring about a determined future

[bleak hazel]

it is basically fine for Solaroids and Lunars to hang out in Heaven for a bit, especially if you're in Sid company, but there are many places in Heaven that it would be tactically unadvisory to poke too hard

[prisma sun]

A Sid might not want to kill you on sight, but a Lunar in Heaven does raise alarm bells

Because like

[bleak hazel]

also getting there is nontrivial, Sids may have a "locate nearest gate" function but nobody else does

[prisma sun]

What if they are there to Do Something Bad, which Historically Is Why They Are There

[knotty island]

I see. Well, thankfully this campaign is down in Creation, so it is official business for the Sids, and then. staring at Young Bǎihé.

[velvet raft]

Any Celestial Exalt in heaven will rapidly become somebody's honored guest

[knotty island]

I don't think Rhi and I have figured out how she got into the party.

[bleak hazel]

Yu-Shan games are surprisingly noir for a gleaming golden city surrounded by seas of shining silver metal

theopunk

[tulip folio]

Oh another aspect with the divine there - Gods being literally ageless, tend to not be the most aware of minor divisions. There's a solid chance a given god doesn't really know much about the Lunar/Sid conflict.

[velvet raft]

Or just doesn't care

[tulip folio]

It's a bunch of mayflies arguing about something around a being who's eons old

[bleak hazel]

bear in mind that "god" here means "random guy you meet on the street" not "cop/senior authority" for the most part

[buoyant summit]

She heard tell of the Exalted council and went 'being the war person for this sounds like a great way to be my old self!'

[knotty island]

I have been told though, that ironically, not taking part in Lunar politics and just cultivating an empire is, in fact, taking part in Lunar politics.

[buoyant summit]

XD

[knotty island]

This sounds like younger me. :3

Rhi the Kobold Bun (She/Her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161699000836165714 message) She heard tell of the Exalted council and went 'being the war person for this sounds like a great …

[bleak hazel]

I would not expect most of the Sids to be here in the official capacity of "Sid", partially because maybe 0.1% of Creation knows what a Sidereal is, upper bound

[tulip folio]

Lunar Politics are roughly 50% leftist infighting by volume, 50% doing this with new political systems -

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png

[knotty island]

Younger me was a cocky little shit.

I mellowed out at about the 400 year mark.

[bleak hazel]

resplendent destinies of merchant princes, sorcerors, dragonbloods, exigents or other notables are common Sid-manipulating-things picks

at least on this scale

[tulip folio]

One of these days I do want to do up an Endings Sid who has 'A Lunar' as their resplendent destiny and uses that endings 'I can turn into a crow' charm to sell it.

[bleak hazel]

hell, if a Lunar blows off the Silver Pact completely, which isn't unheard of, it's very possible they have no idea what a Sidereal is either

[knotty island]

Young Bǎihé is, thankfully, slightly tamed by the memories of her older self.

[bleak hazel]

there is also a lot of variation between celestial exalts as to how much they consider the former bearers of their exaltation to be "them" in any meaningful sense

[velvet raft]

A stupid thing lower-essence sids can do is combine that with Unweaving Method and archery charms

To be a crow who shoots a death laser

[bleak hazel]

I believe the default is "I've got the memory of some other bastard in my head" with some skewing more towards "former me is my father figure" and some towards "He's Literally Me.ryangosling"

[velvet raft]

Unfortunately there's no way to make it work with martial arts

[buoyant summit]

Baihe and SQ are of the 'we have incarnated as the same person... Because' variety

[tulip folio]

Lunars: "Okay, we call this meting of the silver pact to...what the fuck is up with Bob's Tattoos?"
Sid: "...shit, my face paint is running."
Lunar: "...that's just offensive man."

[buoyant summit]

They have incarnated as very different people before, but for some reason destiny conspired for them to meet again as different versions of the same people

[bleak hazel]

bear in mind that metaphysically you haven't, that guy's soul has gone wherever its bits went and the exaltation is just carrying all their memories around

[buoyant summit]

:3

[bleak hazel]

but it can be very close

[buoyant summit]

I mean sure

They have simply decided 'That person was cool, I'm gonna be that person now'

[bleak hazel]

hang on where's the graph

[knotty island]

It was not a choice for Young Bǎihé. The exaltation chose her. :3

Rhi the Kobold Bun (She/Her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161699000836165714 message) They have simply decided 'That person was cool, I'm gonna be that person now'

[prisma sun]

The ghost of your past incarnation can still be around

[velvet raft]

It's weird multi-variate reincarnation

[buoyant summit]

Oh trust me I plan to use this

I knew that part

[knotty island]

Young Bǎihé meeting Old Bǎihé's ghost would be very funny.

[buoyant summit]

||:3||

[knotty island]

And also very insulting towards Young Bǎihé.

She will get dressed down by the older version.

[bleak hazel]

I once had a party member who was all in on the He's Literally Me dynamic and it was fun because all the other solars in that party were very sick of this guy pointing at first age ruins going "I did that, I did that, what did these filthy deebs do to my palace" because they barely had any past life memories and were convinced this guy was either delusional or putting it on

[buoyant summit]

That is fucking amazing

[bleak hazel]

you don't have to have any at all, really

[tulip folio]

One of my favorite things that @fierce star and I put together for a game was there's a subcommitee in Serenity for 'People attempting to make copies of the Scarlet Empress to claim the throne'. With different forms for 'Neomah-made clone, alternate timeline Get, just really similar looking relative, cosmetic sorcery' etc.

[bleak hazel]

and sometimes it's just vibes/deja vu

[knotty island]

Thankfully Young Bǎihé is not quite She's Literally Me, and more.. She is who I was, she is who I must become.

[fierce star]

lmao

yep

[knotty island]

I ain't her yet. AND I'MMA CHANGE THAT. >:3 is her vibe.

[bleak hazel]

"yep, got another sneering redhead here, call the committee"

[knotty island]

What?

</gen>

[bleak hazel]

talking about the clones of scarlet empress concept

[knotty island]

Is this a character archetype?

Oh.

[bleak hazel]

The Scarlet Empress is very distinctive and affectionately known by the fanbase as Big Red

[buoyant summit]

The young plucky firehaired and firehearted thief trying to live up to her exalt's legacy of Being Guan Yu, Notable Honorable Not-Thief And War Hero

[knotty island]

I think both Bǎihés would get very offended if they were compared to Big Red.

[bleak hazel]

(she's normal-sized, that's a hologram)

[knotty island]

Exactly.

Rhi the Kobold Bun (She/Her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161699000836165714 message) The young plucky firehaired and firehearted thief trying to live up to her exalt's legacy of Being G…

[tulip folio]

She also left the realm in such a state of profound shitshow with her various children that the primary export of the noble houses is Schemes right now.

[buoyant summit]

So is her leaving a 2e thing or has Exalted just

Updated rules but not temporally proceeded the setting?

[knotty island]

It's great.

Rhi the Kobold Bun (She/Her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161699000836165714 message) The young plucky firehaired and firehearted thief trying to live up to her exalt's legacy of Being G…

[bleak hazel]

Scarlet was very much Built Different, unfortunately her kids are all Built Similarly (with huge mummy issues, specifically)

[buoyant summit]

Oh it's going to be very fun

[tulip folio]

Nah, she's left in every edition. It's sorta the Catalyst for Why The Realm Is Like That.

[buoyant summit]

Goooot it

[bleak hazel]

the core conceit of "five years ago the Scarlet Empress went missing and the Solars are back" has been narrative-present for Exalted for forever

it's a good spot because it could go literally any direction

[buoyant summit]

I like that

[tulip folio]

She had the charisma, girlboss power and Tactical Nuclear Warheads to keep it all under her control and coordinated.

All of her children lack at least one of those three

And are determined to try and get the missing thing

[buoyant summit]

I guess that means the lore is very explicitly 'this is your starting point, your adventures will make this world go in a wildly different direction than any other campaign'

Which I vibe with

[tulip folio]

100%

[prisma sun]

My Sid has some memories from his past life but he finds it incredibly dysphoric

[bleak hazel]

the Realm collapsing into a giant mess forever and being replaced by whatever is not guaranteed, so your deeb game can be "the Peach Garden Brotherhood get the Realm's shit compressed again" and while it's all a mess there's good opportunities for other Exalts to do threshold stuff

[velvet raft]

She also disappeared right around the time large numbers of Solars started showing up

[limpid badge]

Welcome to Creation, here’s your shovel

[prisma sun]

Especially because everyone else treats him as just a continuation of his past life

[buoyant summit]

Which means I can get even crazier than I intended

[tulip folio]

My Sid has memories in her head that conflict with how she is now. These memories are not part of a past life or her current life. Shit just happened.

[prisma sun]

King Hu just kinda takes it all in stride because it helps him self aggrandize

[bleak hazel]

Four Seasons Rival has a very strange relationship with the father figure/mentor/handler/sifu/former self that was his previous incarnation

[prisma sun]

And Waking Smith is too busy to deal with all that hogwash

[bleak hazel]

I have never done an Exalt who actually has First Age memories, I find it more fun when it was just the last guy

[prisma sun]

Including his wife

[buoyant summit]

wait, he exalted as the reincarnation of someone who raised him?

[prisma sun]

Who is so mad he hasn't remembered they are married yet

[buoyant summit]

God that'd be fucking wild

[knotty island]

Three Kingdoms joke?

Misc | Naval RA-chitect ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161699000836165714 message) the Realm collapsing into a giant mess forever and being replaced by whatever is not guaranteed, s…

[velvet raft]

One of the original devs said explicitly that by default, all of the caution and zero-sum thinking and animus of the power players just leads Creation into a long decline. The implication being: you are here to change that.

[bleak hazel]

no, he was an orphan and once he Siderealed at the low end of the exaltation age range (15) his former self's giant web of contingencies, training programs, messages tucked into the weave of fate and so on activated and basically put him through a pre-written choose-your-own-adventure book to forge him into the Bureau's perfect weapon

Gleam of Vanished Embers was very ready to die

[buoyant summit]

Oh my God that's even fucking cooler holy shit

[tulip folio]

Glacier Jade's got memories from her artifact armour. Which is an issue when the memories from that artifact armour are for a person who never existed.

It's memories of a her she could have been and her nemesis is sure she will become but Jade can't really discard the armour because while she's wearing it, she can weaken her arcane fate and she cares way too much about being able to make friends to give it up just because 'it's fucking with my brain'.

[buoyant summit]

Oh I am going to have so much fun

[bleak hazel]

to the point that before he vanished and Rival showed up he was doing the Exiting-the-Jianghu settling of accounts sequence in full knowledge that he couldn't pay in full and he was going to die

no idea what killed him, left that for future campaign stuff to explore

but he was basically running around settling as many scores and handling as many difficult jobs as possible while trying to optimise his future self into the Sidereal he thought he could never actually reach

because he'd got to about 900 years old and wasn't really progressing

he was an E5 elder badass but He Could Be More

[buoyant summit]

WAIT MISC YOU WROTE THIS SHIT????

[bleak hazel]

yeah this the backstory of Four Seasons Rival, way of the househusband sidereal

[buoyant summit]

I am now extremely excited for whatever the fuck you're making for my game

[bleak hazel]

used to be a silversmith's apprentice

steadily becoming Exa from Abstract Weapon

actually have you read Abstract Weapon

[buoyant summit]

No

[limpid badge]

Oh I did, at least, think of Bloody Hand’s First Age incarnation bc it’s important to steal from your past self, and The Lightning Emperor of Benessia was an asshole anyway

[bleak hazel]

read it, it'll only take ten minutes

it's more technomancy than fantasy but it's my favourite Sid Vibes thing

three chapters, you want up to and including "Zero Day"

https://qntm.org/abstract

[prisma sun]

Drifts in Gossamer only had one reincarnation before him

[bleak hazel]

the Elder Sid combat fantasy is exactly this kind of Martial Arts Angel

[prisma sun]

Five-Fingered Sif was an old paragon who slowly decayed from depression into a stagnant master, unable to move anymore

And one day literally just dropped dead while walking around the Beareau

[bleak hazel]

anyway Rival's fucked up parasocial relationship with his former self/sifu/dad is fun and I hope to explore it some time

he will absolutely be following Gleam's carefully planned martial training schedule (me, optimising an E5 combat build) but he's a very lazy sorceror and did not take very well to the eldritch tome he was left and told to study

[buoyant summit]

This is amazing

[bleak hazel]

predicting and manipulating your future incarnation is meant to be impossible beyond leaving them a dead drop of loot and an unpredictable shotgun of memories but he's applied all his elder prowess and a good few years to having the best possible go

finished it already?

I admit that Gleam is me being very self-indulgent because it lets me start with a maxed out elder exalt going full Last Dance and unleashing all the shenanigans and I love that

and then the entire subsequent arc is the actual character

so I have kind of gotten my power fantasy in first and am eating my vegetables/character development later

but I think it works

[prisma sun]

It's a character for fiction rather than play so imo it's fine

[bleak hazel]

it's like when a JRPG starts you off with a full party of max level guys in the tutorial

who you immediately lose

the indulgent part is just going "as a character conceit, this elder was canon relatively recently", he and his work beyond setting up Rival's choose-your-own-adventure education don't actually have to inform the campaign but it is eating one of those Elder Sid slots

[prisma sun]

Drift's main thing is that he is a floaty himbo who is slowly losing his patience with the Politicking of Yu-Shan and is pretending really hard he isn't 5 seconds away from hitting Gold/Bronze faction members with backbreakers until cooperation resumes.

[bleak hazel]

the upside to being in heaven is that if you dunk someone in the lake they definitely float

downside is mercury poisoning but there are charms for that

[prisma sun]

Imagining King Hu dealing with his past lives is really funny

I like to imagine he has such a strong self-image that he literally just puts himself into all the memories he sees.

And after a big flashback sequence he just stands there and goes "When did I do that?"

[dense verge]

good

[prisma sun]

Waking Smith I think has a relatively healthy view on his past life in that every time he sees something he built his instinct is to tear it down and build it better than before.

[merry arch]

i was chatting with delilah last night and an idea for a sidgame sprouted from a joke:
the special committee on matters regarding gender and transition, an inter-divisional task force within the bureau of destiny. the job, make sure that eggy dynast's son transitions and becomes one of the greatest generals of the realm's warring states period

many sidereal capers ensue as 5 of the most disinterested bureaucrats help this idiot

[buoyant summit]

lmao

[knotty island]

Warring states you say?

[merry arch]

the realm is about to implode

[velvet raft]

Maybe

Probably

The center cannot hold

The Scarlet Empress was the sole force stabilizing the Realm, and very much by design

She disappeared 5 years ago

And the cracks are starting to show

[prisma sun]

I do feel like it's a bit weird since there isn't really anti-trans sentiment in the Realm

Just Misandry

[merry arch]

well yeah i didnt imply any of that.

[buoyant summit]

Yes you get to be literal Guan Yu

[merry arch]

it's just a funny game idea. nothing more.

[knotty island]

The irony here is that Bǎihé is not Realm-aligned at all.

[tulip folio]

...and it's been confirmed that 3e Infernals won't have Acts of Villainy. Bugger.

[chilly sluice]

Unfortunate

[buoyant summit]

I do find it extremely funny that, looking again

[velvet raft]

Yeah, I'm unsurprised considering what I had read so far

[buoyant summit]

short daiklaves are just

normal sized one-handed swords

[chilly sluice]

Yep

[buoyant summit]

'small, with a 3-foot long blade' sir that is a whole-ass liuyedao stfu

[chilly sluice]

Because artifacts are just all kinda oversized

[bleak hazel]

the funniest part for me is not that they're really long, it's when they're normal length but have the proportions of a surfboard

[chilly sluice]

It's small compared to a full daiklave, let alone a Grand Daiklave 😛

[buoyant summit]

What's funny is Tegama, the posterboy Full Moon Lunar, I think is supposed to have a full sized reaper daiklave?

which is like

a fucking Sephiroth katana

but in all the art he has a normal sword

[feral cipher]

Continuing to plan a abyssal character
this is a presence 3 essence 1 effect, for some reason
i'm gonna have so many damn dead guys

[velvet raft]

3e Infernals have some cool stuff but they really feel kind of ... empty, to me.

Insofar as there's a hook it's "body horror powers and angry"

There's not a ton of reason for me to care, which I suppose is in keeping with the Infernals themselves

[buoyant summit]

okay it's apparently not explicitly a reaper daiklave, but he's a Single Point stylist, it almost has to be

[velvet raft]

Who seem to kinda lack purpose

[buoyant summit]

https://tenor.com/view/jetstream-sam-my-beloved-gif-22029076

||I SEE NOW. YOU DENY YOUR WEAPON ITS PURPOSE!!!||

[velvet raft]

The yozis made them for some sort of ambiguously defined vengeance, but they more-or-less just empower angry people to go on rampages

[buoyant summit]

Also jesus christ tegama would be so much cooler if they didn't give him the Killmonger Cut

I am begging the Exalted character designers

He'd even look cool bald!

[velvet raft]

3e's iconics have all been pretty uninteresting

[buoyant summit]

You could make him bald!

And have the moonsilver tattoos make his dome literally chrome!!!

But no!

[bleak hazel]

artifacts can look like whatever, as long as it's flashy

personally I find it funniest when they're normal length but have the proportions of a surfboard

[buoyant summit]

Fair

He also apparently draws it from fucking nowhere which

how

is there a Lunar charm for that?

[buoyant summit]

or is that just his sword being his sword

[bleak hazel]

probably an Elsewhere charm

[bleak hazel]

I believe this is a different Sword Lunar that we also have, actually

[buoyant summit]

I am sorry to disappoint you but these kinds of anime swords give me aneurysms so I will not be including them

Unless you count like

Owl's katana from Sekiro

Which I don't think would count but sure

[bleak hazel]

ah no, Shadow-Rending Razor is unarmed

[buoyant summit]

Oh yeah them

Give them the fucking 'draw from nowhere' sword

They're the assassin

[velvet raft]

That's not necessarily awful characterization for the Yozis themselves, but I find it much less compelling than their previous version, and more than that it doesn't give much to the Infernals themselves

[buoyant summit]

Have a better design

etc

sorry, I'll stop

I like lunar design potential but the iconics just don't seem to go anywhere with it except making hanging out in hybrid the Ogre's thing

[bleak hazel]

I am also a fan of normal-looking swords but it's funny when they look like cricket bats

[buoyant summit]

I wish one of the Lunar iconics was just

Always a fucking animal

Like just a talking animal

[velvet raft]

They're much more "solars but green" now at a narrative level. :\

[knotty island]

..Am I weird for my sidearm being a straight-bladed jian, not a curved-blade dao?

[buoyant summit]

...no?

[velvet raft]

Right down to being kinda murderhobos-by-default the way that solars are

[knotty island]

Just because I see a lot of dao mentioned, so I was wondering.

[buoyant summit]

Oh cuz ur basing this on the art

Oh I just like dao

[knotty island]

Okay. Dao are good.

[buoyant summit]

They are my preferred Chinese sword

That's it

I don't even really like the popular image of the dao which is wide as fuck and backswept to hell

my favs are the willow-leaf sabers or liuyedao

[bleak hazel]

I have one two-handed jian and a selection of other weirdos

[buoyant summit]

Wait Misc you own swords?

[bleak hazel]

Rival, as mentioned, has about eight weapons

no, among my Exalts

[buoyant summit]

Oh

Ahhhhh

[bleak hazel]

my real weapons are a bow and a martini-henry

[buoyant summit]

fuckin

martini-henry firewand

[tulip folio]

Yeah. I'm...at this point it's less than I'm angry at 3e Infernals and more that everything they reveal that's a major change just kinda leaves me a bit cold.

It's a lack of strong feelings beyond 'kinda dissapointed'.

[buoyant summit]

also, sword aesthetics rarely mechanically matter

You can learn Even Blade with any kind of medium or light daiklave

for example

And whatever shape

[knotty island]

nodding. I was just wondering what was typical of the art.

[buoyant summit]

The style just lends certain stances as being better for certain daiklaves

What's typical for the art is I think the art is bad a lot of the time and goes too far into 'generic anime metal bats' and away from actual myth

xD

[chilly sluice]

it's mostly just artifacts being traditionally kinda ridiculous

[knotty island]

Also, I think the council is actually going to be a great way to show off a piece of Bǎihé's lore that.. We don't often get to explore in crunch, since often she just is a beatstick, if that makes sense.

[chilly sluice]

mundane weapons are just normal

[buoyant summit]

Like I cannot stand the vast majority of the depictions of weapons here but again, bugbear

I will hush

[knotty island]

Except, she's a skilled tactician, and we get to flex that.

[bleak hazel]

I would dedicate at least a little bit of time to figuring out how these characters work as Lunars and with the attendant politics, rather than just going "fox = Lunar" and running the empire-building purely off of that

there are implications to being any given exalt type in this setting

[knotty island]

nodnod.

[buoyant summit]

Oh I've been telling Baihe about what being a Lunar means, and taking that into account with my own npcs

I think there are some great, deep Lunar hooks in here

[bleak hazel]

yeah, but do actually go read the Lunar book and the basic setting info in Core, since it's got good lore in it

[buoyant summit]

tru

[buoyant summit]

you have been given homework, young foxhopper

xD

[buoyant summit]

To be clear I have read the stuff

Not like

Fangs at the Gates front to back but Lunar politics and pact workings and etc are now familiar to me, don't worry

What I really need to read now is Sids crap

[bleak hazel]

yeah, but if you're playing a Lunar you should read that even if you aren't GMing, same for any splat (except maybe Solars, but they don't really have a splatbook lore section)

[knotty island]

nodding.

Can a reincarnation of a Lunar inherit their caste, or does it get re-determined?

[tulip folio]

Dealing with Sids as a Non-Sid is much funnier when the player hasn't read the sid book. 😛

It results in a lot of 'Wait, you can do what?'

[buoyant summit]

I mean I'm the GM so I have to read it

xD

I have a pair of Sid pcs

[buoyant summit]

They can be different castes

[knotty island]

I ask because well, Young Bǎihé may be a Nain-ya, a fact which makes associating with sidereals ever the more dangerous, but that would require inheritance of caste. She knows about the Pact, but I think with her young age as an Exalted, she might not have met with a shahan-ya yet.

But, the desire to not have to rebuild the character sheet is stronger.

[buoyant summit]

lol

[knotty island]

So if all Nain-ya are automatically casteless, then that is not a path.

[buoyant summit]

Nain-ya start casteless, but a nain-ya outside of its more formal usage just means 'youngun'

[knotty island]

So likely she is, for lack of a better word, inducted.

[buoyant summit]

yeah

And knowing the circumstances of her Exaltation and her attitude towards Past B, she likely is the same Caste

Especially considering the shit she stole that's technically hers anyways was likely important enough to be kept by a Circle

Like, when Ma-Ha-Suchi finally kicks it, someone is going to take stewardship over his territory, personal affects, etc

And those someones are gonna be his Circle

[bleak hazel]

I'm not sure he has a circle per se anymore

[knotty island]

Young B definitely falls, like Old B, into Approach 2 though, Fortification. I imagine that Old B "turned a blind eye" towards lunars settling in the empire's lands as long as they did not directly mess with the Empire, which of course, against Pact rules to do so.

[bleak hazel]

Deebs go around in circles since it's a structural feature of their culture, Sids can be deployed in Circles although it's rare

most exalts do not have a standing circle of their four best mates any longer

[knotty island]

So, large bandit problem, but not her bandit problem.

[bleak hazel]

hell, there aren't four Lunars who would be peers to MHS around who don't have deeply complicated political relationships with him

[buoyant summit]

general example, I think my point got across lol

I also admittedly thought Circle meant 'a shahan-ya's students'

[bleak hazel]

deebs show up in perfect groups of five enough that they are occasionally nicknamed Power Rangers, others don't

[buoyant summit]

At least for Lunars

[bleak hazel]

Circle is "your party", with the classic Perfect Circle being one of each caste/aspect of a single exalt type

[buoyant summit]

Ahhhh

[knotty island]

That actually does slightly change things, but not for the worse story? More in.. "Oh, our shit is gone, and that's cinnabar fox fur. Well, Bǎihé is returned, let us be happy for her.".

Rhi the Kobold Bun (She/Her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161699000836165714 message) Especially considering the shit she stole that's technically hers anyways was likely important enoug…

[bleak hazel]

usually an adventuring group of peers

[fierce star]

don't forget, a 'true' Perfect Circle is 5 solars, 5 lunars, 5 sidereals, and 50 dragonblooded, so to play exalted properly you need 65 players

nods sagely

(this is a shitpost perfect circles are fake)

[bleak hazel]

Deebs swear binding oaths to form a "sworn hearth", and they really are a group for life, everyone else is just doing vibes

[mighty rover]

That's right

[bleak hazel]

clearly it's most important to have the perfect 5 sids because otherwise you're missing at least one colour when you use Greater Signs to turn on RGB lighting

[mighty rover]

did they get this from wheel of time or what

[prisma sun]

It's most important to have 5 different sids so that no one has to middle-man the paperwork

[fierce star]

... god now i'm imagining a 'true' first age perfect circle but they also have an a adamant alchemical along

[bleak hazel]

the Lunars remake their castes and 1/5 in every group just get kicked out

[buoyant summit]

Anyways

[bleak hazel]

redundancies

[buoyant summit]

Old, dead Baihe then didn't have a circle, but one or a few following her as a shahan-ya

[knotty island]

It does look like Young B's relationship with the other party members will be strained though, especially if one of them is a Bronze member.

[buoyant summit]

Also I realize I need to rewrite my Lunar's solar mate cuz I forgot Solars didn't start reincarnating again until recently

[tulip folio]

Well they mostly didn't

There were a few outliers outside of the Solar Timeout Box.

But not many

[buoyant summit]

Hm

Eh, whatever I'll have her be one of the outliers

Also, Eclipse caste can get a charm from any source?

That seems kinda overpowered

[dense verge]

as long as it has the eclipse keyword, iirc

[bleak hazel]

they used to be able to learn everything, which was terrible and forced way too many bad design decisions in an attempt to vaguely restrict it without just saying "eclipse anima bad", but in 3e they can only learn Eclipse-keyworded charms

which appear mostly on god/ghost/elemental flavour stuff

the odd regular NPC

no Exalt charms

[prisma sun]

They can do it again in Essence

[buoyant summit]

Ahhhhh

[dense verge]

still needs the eclipse keyword in essence

[velvet raft]

With you 100% at this point. I definitely was more irritated than I presently am, but at the moment all I've got is the feeling of vague disappointment that realistically the storylines of old Infernals are just no longer on the table.

And they haven't been replaced with anything that remotely excites me

And uh ... I guess there's that sort of uncomfortable validation insofar as the ways they do nothing for me are exactly the ways I was worried they would do nothing for me given Infernals in Essence.

There was this whole genre of story that was compelling to me and now I guess it's just gone unless playing with a group the entirety of which is happy to work under the assumption of different lore.

[buoyant summit]

Me, thinking I could give a few wereshape talents to an NPCs Solar mate

[bleak hazel]

I believe there are "transfigure your friends" Lunar charms somewhere if you want to go from the other direction

[tulip folio]

I am dangerously tempted to do up a Potential Man meme for Twilights.

'Give me Liberty
Give me Fire
Give me Zeal
Or I Retire'

[buoyant summit]

Are Twilights just kinda crap?

[tulip folio]

Twilights are solars, so they're always going to be busted but they really suffer from the 'first book' issues.

'They call him 007
0 Sorcery Support Charms
0 Interesting Craft Charms
7 Charms to generate silver craft points'

[bleak hazel]

what is it, 57 craft charms of which you use 12?

something like that

[chilly sluice]

57 Craft Charms?

[bleak hazel]

it's in the fifties somewhere

[tulip folio]

There's a reason why every other splat has a smaller and better craft tree, even if it can't get the same total amount of numbers in the end.

As they tend to go 'what can I do with craft'

While Solar craft is 'how can I make numbers big'

The Sidereal Craft tree is disgustingly stacked with good, flavourful charms

[bleak hazel]

I am pretty sure that the core flaw of Solar War, Solar Craft and Solar Sail is the same one

it's that they wrote the subsystem and then designed the tree just by exhausting literally every different manipulation they could think of

[fierce star]

Solars are theo nlky splat that can easily make NA artifacts, comma, but... like, in what reasonable campaign are you going to print those

[bleak hazel]

do every tiny subset of roll better, decrease every cost, etc.

[prisma sun]

Someone did post that they added a thing that lets Solars learn any charm in the game

[bleak hazel]

so a Solar Crafter, General or Sailor is doublesuperplusultra unbeatable but also really boring

[prisma sun]

I forget exactly what it was called

[dense verge]

oh gosh dang it

[bleak hazel]

Power From Darkness

[dense verge]

they turned the stove on after specifically turning it off

[bleak hazel]

has some fluff about "heaven will be pissed at you" but it's just old eclipse anima mechanically

[dense verge]

the gm will also be pissed at you

[bleak hazel]

except you buy it as a fairly high essence charm

[tulip folio]

I think the most interesting Solar Craft Charm is the Doombot Charm and also: It totally shouldn't have been a Solar Charm 😛

[bleak hazel]

I still hold that if they want Heaven to enforce in-game politesse this much they should hire more Sidereals

numbers are a bit low for this

[dense verge]

theres a few solar charms that got lost from other splats

[tulip folio]

Doombot Charm feels like it should have been Sid or Alchemical.

[bleak hazel]

mostly Sids, but a couple of Lunar ones too

[tulip folio]

I do find it funny that so many splats need a 'tell the meteor to fuck off' charm, just to explain why Solar Lore isn't just nuking every single city you don't like.

[bleak hazel]

the Sid one is actually pretty fun because it doubles as the "you can't scry me" charm

the main issue with it is just that the only thing it blocks is sufficiently rare that it basically exists to have a mechanics-object conversation with GKS and the E5 abyssal scrying charms

rather than actually go on any PC

[tulip folio]

Yeah. Like I'd never take those charms because this isn't going to be a problem unless the GM is being a dickhead about it.

No GM who's remotely reasonable is going to set up Unavoidable Doom for a city that's not called Gem. They're going to threaten it and then let the players work out how to avoid that threat.

[bleak hazel]

at this point I feel I could write an entire series on regulatory signalling via Exalted analogies

so much stuff in these books that exists to answer a question or resolve an argument from the forums of the previous edition or what have you

only distantly connected to game, has some effect nonetheless

[velvet raft]

So, they suffer from three issues:

• solar charm tree bloat means that they need to sink tons of charms into a supernal to get anything out of it
• there aren’t enough stat blocks for spirits that they can play Pokémon master with, and Solar familiar charms are almost all animal-only (and E2+) anyway
• for reasons relating to 2E, the design of their mage armor ability is overcautious

I like to whine about Essence Induction Technique in particular

[bleak hazel]

not to be confused with normal Solar armour charms, which are their usual variety of nuts

[velvet raft]

An Essence 5 occult charm with 10 prerequisites that gives you a spirit buddy who gains experience along with you, and then gives no actual rules for creating said buddy or spending experience with said buddy

[bleak hazel]

"apply soak to decisive damage" does not need to be in the game

[velvet raft]

Yeah, that can fuck right off

[tulip folio]

...I'd need to double check but I think Alchemicals get that one too, just with a '1/scene, can't be reset early' restriction. It's basicly treated like a Perfect Soak.

[limpid badge]

hrmmmnnn hrrmmnnn i really guess i need to get bh into a combat proper to figure out what her war-gown should do,,,,

[coral wraith]

that should be soon

[bleak hazel]

there's an interesting split between "perfect soak" and "perfect dodge" in Ex3 where only the former makes the enemy reset to base init on your glorious solar abs

so it's more effective as an emergency button

[limpid badge]

mostly bc i noticed that. well. Gorgon is actually a Big Girl Toy

there's a lot of very hard essence locks on that thing

[tulip folio]

Ah, no. The Alch one lets you apply half the soak from stamina against a decisive attack

Not all soak

[buoyant summit]

Would an Eclipse who survived since the purge via leveraging Fair Folk hospitality contracts be reasonable?

[limpid badge]

yah probably? if you really want an old solar

[bleak hazel]

extremely extremely long shot considering the world was nearly consumed by ravening hordes of murder fae at least once between then and the present, but not impossible

[limpid badge]

I think the oldest canon solar is still the Bull, right?

[velvet raft]

Hypothetically possible. Extremely powerful and/or extremely fucked up, almost definitely

[bleak hazel]

the Bull is an old dude, not sure he's the longest exalted solar

he got the thing while walking out on the ice to die after living an entire mortal life

[tulip folio]

I could see doing The Voyage of Bran sorta stuff with it.

You went off to the wyld, it was like 6 months for you

It was a lot longer for creation

[bleak hazel]

bear in mind the Solars were usurped because the vast majority of them had gone full world-consuming lunatic godking, so this guy would be highly unlikely to be normal even before spending a millenium in the acid trip dimension

[velvet raft]

He could be new though

Using Iki’s thought

That could be fun

[bleak hazel]

kind of a pain to do in that case because you then need coherent answers to "what was the First Age like"

in many particulars

[limpid badge]

ive consumed enough lies about atlantis to do this i think

[mighty rover]

true!

[buoyant summit]

Well shit

XD

[velvet raft]

Also, if he was new to the Exaltation, he might not know anything beyond some particular Solar’s nightmare domain

Creation was bigger and not necessarily much better than mortals

Wait, okay, hold my beer

This kid grew up under the cruel tyranny of a particular Solar god-king

Knowing little but resentment for his master

Then he exalted, and got blasted with how nice this guy was to him, now that he was a fellow solar

Usurpation happens like twelve hours later, and the elder solar makes it back alive, with pursuers, and whisks the kid away into the Wyld, saving his life

Hope shot into the future etc etc

And then, presumably, is killed

Kid spends what feels like a week wandering a dark, fey wood

Finds his way back to a Creation he's never known, post-usurpation

The place he lived, out far to the East or whatever? It doesn't even exist anymore

Great Contagion took it out

Like, as geography

[buoyant summit]

I was thinking more along the lines of 'solar with a lunar mate flees to the Wyld with her pursuers delayed by the Lunar, exploits hospitality contracts to barely scrape by, is reunited with reincarnation of lunar mate near present day minus a century

[velvet raft]

Aye, I'm pivoting more on what Iki suggested :D

[buoyant summit]

But if the necessary ability to do that hinges on becoming Solve the Plot powerful then I need to rethink

[velvet raft]

Definitely not solve the plot powerful, but likely pretty powerful

Alternately, hanging out in the wyld just made him extremely fucked up and he didn't get much stronger

[velvet raft]

He's hunted for the declared evils of the Anathema that sound extremely familiar to him

[bleak hazel]

any exalt that old who has actually been doing stuff this whole time is going to be at their highest possible essence, which is at minimum late E3 if he was an especially mediocre Solar

[velvet raft]

Approached as friends by those who see his world with glasses so rose-colored they're into the infrared

But like. He doesn't want to die.

Fuck, a solar I actually find compelling

I can't believe this, this sucks

Essence 1 first age solar who's only been exalted for like three weeks and thinks that the first age fuckin' sucked

[buoyant summit]

lmao

[velvet raft]

Give him some kind of fancy artifact that protected him out in the Wyld, which the elder solar who ruined and saved his life shoved into his hands

Eclipse caste also helps with that

[buoyant summit]

I mean

If this is still advice for me

[velvet raft]

Naw

[buoyant summit]

Okay cool

[velvet raft]

I'm freestyling for myself here now >_<

[buoyant summit]

XD

lmao nice

[velvet raft]

Unrelated: suddenly realized that even without using Flying Guillotine Style, Flying Guillotine would be a better spell than flight of the brilliant raptor for Wise Songbird

[tulip folio]

oh?

[velvet raft]

She's got lower Perception, and Flying Guillotine runs entirely off of Int

Cheaper to cast, too

Man, the Eclipse caste abilities are as weirdly specific as ever

[empty creek]

I want to make a character that rocks a Grand Goremaul

Just so I can name it something like “Magnificent Absence of Subtlety”

[velvet raft]

Fuck it, Ride supernal

[buoyant summit]

RIDE SUPERNAL, SHINY AND GOLD

[velvet raft]

Unicorn familiar

Archery

[knotty island]

We have done some Lunar research. We are. Still about as confused as before.

[buoyant summit]

What're you confused about?

[knotty island]

I have. No idea.

[velvet raft]

What type of information can we provide so as to be useful to you?

[knotty island]

Well I don't know, but.. I do know that Lunars are mentioned to shapeshift a lot, which is.. Un-me-like. I have a reputation to uphold, and er, sometimes it is fox hours.

On the other hand, the idea of young me becoming like.. A Known Issue™ for the.. Realm, is funny, though a quick way to get an easy death. Perhaps that is why I had to be far from where I was before, because the Realm is looking for me back there?

[velvet raft]

Young exalts flee Wyld hunts if they're smart, yeah

The shapeshifting isn't something lunars have to indulge in

It's pretty easy, and you can be more or less specialized in it

Unrelated: I feel like I am receiving contradictory information here

[bleak hazel]

clearly your horse is now at -6 motes

[next delta]

Also no tale of its origins, but the era it is from is known

[velvet raft]

There is an origin tale

I just didn't sreencap it

The evocations are pretty rad, tbh

Just a few of them but they're fun

But like? Is it medium armor, or heavy armor? Is it or is it not light as a feather? Who is paying the attunement cost, and how much?

aaaaaaaaaaa

[buoyant summit]

Lunars are able to shift into myraid forms, but none of them must

[merry arch]

yea the book is speaking in generalizations

the narrative throughline is being wild and free and sticking it to the realm and heaven

[buoyant summit]

Shapeshifting is an area of expertise and specialization, and you're actually not in the Caste that is Luna's greatest shapeshifters.

I'm admittedly surprised you're not taking Hybrid or Desdly Beastman but nothing says you have to

[bleak hazel]

it's generally helpful for any given Lunar to put a whole one merit dot into a giant pile of shapes so they can just zap into an unremarkable human form or random animal whenever they want, but that's about it

if you're a Lunar with an ironclad No Shapeshifting Ever line then you will be a bit weaker than usual, but if you're OK with it as a back pocket tool it's perfectly fine to do most of your talking/fighting/serious work in base-human form

[knotty island]

I have a fox form for a reason, and I can use it to great effect, but I like being bimodal.

[velvet raft]

You might want to consider just parking in hybrid form, which you can do and only come out of it to go full fox

There's no set description of hybrid form so it could just be highly visible ears and tail

[buoyant summit]

I've told Baihe this I think

[knotty island]

The thing about hybrid form is.. Well I suppose it does give me the missile and tail, but..

Hm, I suppose.

[buoyant summit]

Hybrid and Deadly Beastman are both great supporters of a Full Moon combatant chassis

[bleak hazel]

Deadly Beastman is, if nothing else, always very loud and obvious because it's a full round crinos transformation, but Hybrid is just another option that you can sit in all the time

[velvet raft]

I gotta say, whoever did the unicorn art did a great job

Do folks think a suit of light armor that also becomes barding for a chosen mount as its attunement bonus would work as four-dot artifact?

[buoyant summit]

You really don't gotta but it frees up some merits for Fun Animal Features that you can just sit and have

[buoyant summit]

If that's all it does yeah

Might even be a 3

[velvet raft]

Presumably it would also have hypothetical evocations that I'm not interested in thinking about

[buoyant summit]

Then a 4 probably yeah

[tulip folio]

As someone who's not much of a lunar expert, how is Hybrid for 'I'm a caster but I don't want to die' purposes?'. Or would it be better to just Be The Animal And Cast Like That?

[buoyant summit]

From what I've read you preeeeetty much just might as well get hybrid and leave it at that, but not even for the survivability.

Mutations Is Useful

Also since I have not made a Lunar sorcerer idk if you can cast in animal form

[bleak hazel]

Unusual Hide 5 remains the best value mutation as ever

[buoyant summit]

It is but it also makes you look freaky as shit

[bleak hazel]

honestly if I was seriously going to rebalance soak I would probably have to nerf that one in particular because it is just so strong

[prisma sun]

I think Deadly Beastman is not great for Sorcery

It's just paying for a lot

That you wouldn't be using

but Hybrid is good because it's just like

Bonuses

[bleak hazel]

the big problem with DBT there is that both sorcery and DBT sap momentum

DBT is a whole round per fight

so I'd skip it

one turn of setup is fine in some situations, two turns is like half of many fights

[velvet raft]

Grab it with subtle :D

[buoyant summit]

?

[velvet raft]

Subtle is a two-dot mutation that makes another mutation not obvious

So like I gave my DB Unusual Hide 4 and Subtle in order to be telekinetic armor

[buoyant summit]

Ahhhhh

[tulip folio]

I feel like a 'doesn't stack with armour' would help there. Sure, you can spend 4 dots on some silk armour or you can spend 4 dots on unusual hide. Both are +4 soak and leave you unarmoured!

[velvet raft]

The silk armor lets you grab evocations an get an attunement bonus, the hide lets you count as unarmored for things other than martial arts

[buoyant summit]

Okay I know this isn't how the Caul works, but what if it monkey-pawed some poor random Deeb and their kid ended up Exalting as something entirely different

XD

[knotty island]

I have found a martial art that speaks to me, but I don't know if a Grand Grimcleaver fits it, and that's the White Reaper way.

[velvet raft]

Ooh, White Reaper is a very battlefield-y style

[knotty island]

It is a 2-handed reaching cutting weapon, so I would imagine so?

Josephine jokingly refers to me as "fops blender".

[velvet raft]

The form weapons should be at the front of the style

[buoyant summit]

I don't precisely remember what weapons count but Grimcleavers are also the giant guandao so it feels like it would?

[knotty island]

White Reaper calls for 'scythes and spears'.

[buoyant summit]

Ah

That means Longfangs and Grimscythes

[knotty island]

So we need to find a/the axe method?

[velvet raft]

You might be able to use grimscythe stats for the guan dao, if that works for you

[buoyant summit]

Ye, I'd let you do that

[velvet raft]

Wouldn't be that much of a change, really, it's still a heavy two-handed pole weapon

[knotty island]

I mean, it is simply chopping vs piercing, though this does feel like a bit of an oversight. chuckles.

[velvet raft]

Same damage type in Exalted XD

Or ah, you mean the tag

[knotty island]

Ah, so it appears to be.. Armour piercing versus tiring?

[tulip folio]

Exalted is cruel to axes

[knotty island]

Okay. Scythes are part of great axes in the Exceptional area.

[velvet raft]

Kinda weird, considering that for mundane weapons, scythes and axes are considered the same

Unrelated: the correct use of bonus points

[buoyant summit]

lmao wtf

[buoyant summit]

It's wack lmao

[knotty island]

I must thus assume that like, Grand Grimcleavers are intended for use here???

If they are not, I will be very mad.

[buoyant summit]

I don't think it's gonna break anything?

So like

Go off

[velvet raft]

It really shouldn't change anything

[buoyant summit]

Yeah go ahead and Do Martial Arts

[knotty island]

Yay, blender. :3

[velvet raft]

As long as you keep it consistent for possible multiple martial arts, and even then

[buoyant summit]

I will suggest you invest in it at chargen cuz later it gets spensive tho

[velvet raft]

White Reaper is fun

[buoyant summit]

Lunars don't get cheap martial arts after chargen

[knotty island]

As in, get the charms for it now, or pick it up at all now?

[buoyant summit]

I would both pick it up and get every charm in it up to and including the Form charm

[knotty island]

I do not have the charm slots for that. 😭

[buoyant summit]

You would indeed have to make some sacrifices yeah

[knotty island]

Oh, I only have to pick up 3. Thank goodness.

[buoyant summit]

lmao

You would need the Martial Arts merit tho

[knotty island]

Which is.. Another 4?

[fierce star]

plus a dot in brawl to qualify

MA has a very high buy in

unless you're alchemicals, who just spend a charm and permanent slot on it

[tulip folio]

It's a talent that is highly priced due to corebook more than actually being broken at cheaper values.

[buoyant summit]

Or a Sidereal who get to go 'Brawl prereqs? Fuck're those?'

[knotty island]

Is this worth it?

[buoyant summit]

A martial art is about equal to having a four dot artifact to unlock shit from

So

Yes

XD

It feels bad, to be sure tho

[knotty island]

If I invest all of this and I do not get given hordes to fight, I will be annoyed.

Let me blend people.

[buoyant summit]

But like a martial art with an artifact weapon? Youch

Don't worry, I will headpats the violence fops

[knotty island]

[fierce star]

let me put it this way I have a lunar who I felt no issue taking martial arts for white reaper and golden janissary

but those were also thematic for her as in her mortal life she was an immaculate exorcist

[knotty island]

Oooh, I have thought: What if the halo was centered around the base of the blade, so it looked like a ring guard for the yanyuedao?

[buoyant summit]

Halo?

[knotty island]

White Reaper makes reference to halos.

[buoyant summit]

Ah

Fuck does it even do?

I'm seeing references to it being an anti-army MA

[velvet raft]

Ye, it's all about carving up big groups

[chilly sluice]

It gets big bonuses for fighting battle groups

Or otherwise groups of people

[velvet raft]

Unrelated: I know a lot of the charms are still busted, but making a solar feels a lot better when not taking eleven different supernal charms and missing every single basic thing (including, often, basic things in that ability because of going deep rather than broad) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dVr_n5ZDrwdlzY6WDXwEJgfSqMKnI8JGbcNy6NFqsFo/edit?gid=655784735#gid=655784735

[buoyant summit]

Can't believe I forgot to mention this but if you have an applicable martial art with a weapon, you use your ability in that martial art instead of its usual one

So you don't have to spend points in Melee

[knotty island]

Oh.

I still want some melee for when I'm using the jian, but. Nice.

[velvet raft]

It'll also cover you for unarmed fighting

[buoyant summit]

Even if the style doesnt include unarmed strikes?

[prisma sun]

I don't think any martial art doesn't use unarmed to some extent

[dense verge]

i think steel devil? or whichever the core book sword one was

[buoyant summit]

...Single Point and Even Blade

[dense verge]

yeah single pint

[velvet raft]

There are a few

And in that case, no, not with unarmed strikes

But White Reaper is usable unarmed

[buoyant summit]

Huh

Interesting

[velvet raft]

Most styles have a little description of what their unarmed stuff looks like with the form weapons

[buoyant summit]

You know

I'm surprised I've not encountered a contraction of Martial Arts along the lines of people going Sids or Deebs

Marts

M a r t s

[velvet raft]

Sidereal Martial Arts: smarts

[dense verge]

usually gets shortened to MAs

[buoyant summit]

I mean ye

But it's a less flowy shortening

Em-Ay as opposed to Mart-s

[velvet raft]

I still think we need more food nicknames for big exalted characters

[buoyant summit]

Ma-Ha-Sushi

[velvet raft]

Ketchup Carjack, Falafel, Anise Seed

[buoyant summit]

The fuck???

[velvet raft]

Ketchup Carjack is a classic joke name for Chejop, elder Sidereal and architect of the usurpation

First And Forsaken Lion = FAFL = Falafel

Anys Syn = Anise Seed

[fierce star]

the sid castes are all varieties of fruit

you have bananas, blueberries, strawberries, grapes and limes :>

[nova yew]

i might be getting into an abyssal exalted game soon

which is cool

first experience with exalted

which is funnier

[dense verge]

goth exalted

[nova yew]

yeah

im making someone who did not at all deserve this second chance and is getting it anyway

weeee might be under the Mask? so i guess im gonna be nationalistic about the underworld now

[dense verge]

i love that prideful motherfucker

he's looming off in the background of my exalted game im slowly running

being a nuisance

[nova yew]

we're participating in the whole invasion thing

[dense verge]

oh so this is during the fall of thorns?

[nova yew]

palling around with red iron

er, bit after

but we're in it

hanging around thorns is the plan

[velvet raft]

Ru's game?

[nova yew]

yea

[dense verge]

mask needs to be a bit of a little shit in my opinion. wanting to show off, flex his power, and being bitter and infuriated at being shown up

one of the many reasons i love him

[velvet raft]

Choose a caste! Right now! I demand it!

[nova yew]

we're lookin like daybreak for me

why am i being demanded this?

[dense verge]

im very excited to see how ru's game goes

[nova yew]

oh nice

ive decided to lean into my worse instincts and make someone who just fuckin sucks

[dense verge]

hell yeah

[nova yew]

"redeemable qualities - none."

like i genuinely tried to think of a redeemable quality

[velvet raft]

That seems about right for a daybreak

[nova yew]

i couldn't find one

[dense verge]

"Wow! Even I hate this little shit!"- Mask of Winters, behind their back, probably

[nova yew]

i guess the only redeemable quality is her loyalty

lmaooooo

she might lowkey actually really want to make the mask of winters proud so actually that might be the only real redeemable quality

which is "she wants to do good at being an abyssal exalted"

which is like
not a good thing to want

but hey if it makes her happy

[dense verge]

i think this should be the goal reaction from the mask of winters when making him proud

[nova yew]

HAH

Shouldn’t have given me an exaltation then jackass

[velvet raft]

I'm afraid you can't beat the Mask of Winters in a petty, cruel, asshole-off

He is simply the best there is

[nova yew]

I don’t plan to beat him at it

I’m gonna do so much petty cruel asshole shit in his name!!!

Er…lack of name

[knotty island]

My question right now is, how exactly do I plan on using White Reaper with. Unarmed strikes.

[velvet raft]

With gusto!

[knotty island]

But I can't do it with a sword.

That's what gets me confused. Unarmed? Sure. Jian? No.

[merry arch]

per crb

[velvet raft]

I'm afraid that's just the transcendant nature of white reaper style :D

[knotty island]

Is it because I am thinking like a mortal?

[buoyant summit]

lol

[velvet raft]

Can't imitate the underlying essence of the movements of a farmer cutting down wheat using a sword

[knotty island]

Though, we cannot actually find like, weapon charms, or such.

[velvet raft]

Yeah, all of your lunar stuff will be usable with just about everything unless otherwise stated

[knotty island]

Because I remember hearing that weapon charms are the alternative to martial arts, so.

[buoyant summit]

evocations on artifacts

There are some artifacts that have evocation charms

That give you specific abilities for using that weapon

[knotty island]

Are these specifically for named artefacts, or modular?

[buoyant summit]

Named artifacts

[velvet raft]

You may be thinking of people talking the melee charms for most exalted

[knotty island]

So without a named artefact, martial arts are needed to keep pace?

[buoyant summit]

No

[velvet raft]

Since most exalted have ability-based charms

Rather than attributes

[buoyant summit]

Most Exalts have charms based on their abilities not their attributes

We Lunars Are Weird

[knotty island]

Right. So Lunars just act weirdly?

[buoyant summit]

Lunars' combat engine is basically just

Being Giant Statsticks About It

At base

Which keeps up just fine

But add in a martial art or artifact?

Sauce

[velvet raft]

Generally martial arts let you specialize in competencies slightly different than what your exalt type could naturally cover well

[knotty island]

I see. I ask because.. It feels like I am losing so much for the martial art, when that is.. Not exactly what I want?

[velvet raft]

That seems like a solid reason not to take it, then.

[buoyant summit]

Ye

You can just invest in Dex & Strength charms to just

Hit Really Fucking Hard

[velvet raft]

Your normal charms will do just fine

[buoyant summit]

That is valid

[bleak hazel]

to be specific, all artifacts have evocations apart from the little 2-dot trinkets like the minifridge jar and the magic seal

anything that's artifact weaponry or armour will have the capacity for its own skill tree

it's just that when you are making custom artifacts you either need to reskin an existing one, cobble something together from known parts or write it yourself

some combination of the three

I usually end up with option B, or at least taking precedent from existing artifacts for all my evos

[fierce star]

Sometimes you get Some Juice and make an entire 10-15 charm evocation tree in one go, sometimes you stare at your four dots and cry for five weeks

such is thew ay of homebrew

(Way of Homebrew sounds like some sidereal bullshit)

[buoyant summit]

Oh shit so I need to work with Bǎihé to make some Evos

[bleak hazel]

The minimum you need is just an attunement bonus

the little perk you get

[buoyant summit]

Hm

I will speak to them about this

[bleak hazel]

You can do evos as and when you want them, I usually do

very few of my custom artifacts have more than 2-3 evos on them, I don't generally want to spend much XP on my sword

but starting a campaign with an attunement bonus and a list of artifact themes is totally fine, as is outright stealing and reskinning stuff from existing artifacts

[prisma sun]

You can also steal other item sets

[buoyant summit]

I can but I haven't read any that fit the bill of 'the glaive of fox Guan Yu'

[lament owl]

mechanical quesstion for 3e exalted

Is it fine not to take any ox bodies at charecter creation if I am dodge specced?

[limpid badge]

you should probably take ox-bodies

just in general

they're Helpful

[lament owl]

I know its just.... I already finished my sheet and I don't wanna go back and make cuts after I realized I forgor them

[bleak hazel]

Does depend on the splat, Dodge Solar can genuinely be immortal with enough dodge charms, but in general I would always take one

2+ is gravy, definitely not mandatory

[lament owl]

Apocalyptic Dodge Abyssal

[limpid badge]

1 is Sensible
2 is Keen
3 is Lordy

[fierce star]

If you are combat primary, I'd take at least two; if you are combat secondary, I'd take at least one

[bleak hazel]

With apoc dodge you can definitely keep to 1

[fierce star]

if you are combat tertiary you can probalby get away with none if the rest of the party's willign to defend you or you're planningt o run away

apoc dodge can get away with none yeah

[limpid badge]

im combat primary and took 1, but that's because BH is spread very wide

[fierce star]

I'd still want some personally as a fallback but

[lament owl]

Its probably gonna be the first thing I pick up

I could probably cut ominous strangers shadow for an ox body actually because I didn't go for the disguise synergy in larceny yet

[fierce star]

Honestly i'm pondering for if I run exalted giving everyone like

a tleast one free ox body?

maybe [essence] free ox bodies up to your usual cap?

[feral cipher]

right now i think my philosophy is 'i'm gonna not take the ox-body and if I have a bad scare then it'll be an early pickup'

my character is currently being built around having a zombie army, big Presence shit, and the nemesis armor

[tulip folio]

Yay, Moid is drawing more RiRi art. That should be fun.

[bleak hazel]

eventually the pile of riri art will be taller than 1 actual riri

[tulip folio]

In this case it's a series of little expression sticks so I can use them in the game. XD

[fierce star]

We're curerntly at 1.1 riri arts

[fierce star]

(There was a bonus riri in my art of responder, which I am tempted to repost because it is really good art lmao)

[feral cipher]

it's gonna be fun

we got the 'horrible failchild noble who has some fucked up thoughts on loyalty', 'poor fucking dude who is just plain unlucky and decided to kill the world about it', and 'greedy petty little bastard who finally got power'

and we're all gonna kill the world about it

[buoyant summit]

I have applied to a Fridays game, wish me luck

[nova yew]

“Horrible failchild noble with fucked up thoughts on loyalty” is putting it mildly

Ru, upon reading my character concept, said “oh wow she needs therapy therapy”

A rare genuine expression of horror at how mentally ill I’ve made this abyssal

[feral cipher]

That's a strong ass reaction from Ru yeah lmao

[feral cipher]

Hurrah!

[nova yew]

Yea

[velvet raft]

I don't think I could do a genuinely evil Abyssal or Infernal (or anyone else)

"Villain games" sort of baffle me emotionally, I don't know what I would do with one.

[nova yew]

That’s fair

[feral cipher]

Robin moment

[nova yew]

I’m currently approaching it from the angle of like

[velvet raft]

Robin absolutely expresses an element of myself, yeah

I've learned things about myself via Robin

[nova yew]

Someone who is so broken they would destroy the world

Oh also she’s got a whole “I can fix her” complex about the neverborn

Awww

That’s wonderful

[feral cipher]

For me it's like
I'm really prone to pulling my punches as a player when it comes to making hard decisions

So I've been trying to make characters that will push that recently

[velvet raft]

But even at the start Robin was always meant to have not really thought things through.

Because I can't think things through to that conclusion. It feels like there's a hard stop in my cognition.

[nova yew]

You do have to engage in a certain kind of awful nihilism to justify destroying the world

[lament owl]

I’m the poor, unlucky guy

Chivalry of death at least gives you some good practical things to do

[feral cipher]

My bugger for the Abyssal game, The Grave Calls For Its Due, is like...
He's just some guy who was born middle class and desperately tried to scrape his way up the meritocracy ladder and never got anywhere before dying
And got a really bitter petty envy complex about it

[nova yew]

Fluffy is surprisingly the least villainous member of this group!

Yeah

Grave’s due is great

[feral cipher]

So now he's rich and powerful and reveling in it and will do anything to keep that going

[nova yew]

We have an entire spread here of social positions

[velvet raft]

The only Abyssal OC I've ever put together was A Guy Who Really Wants Black Heron To Leave Him Alone.

[nova yew]

Grave’s due is our middle class bastard, broken ivory was a poor man who only saw the sun like, once, and iron chains was a rich dragon blooded girl who had what was fucking coming to her

I went into this thinking “I’m going to make someone who doesn’t deserve that second chance” and hoo boy

[ruby geyser]

Infernals character creation manuscript section is out
Devil-Body stuff fucks, and it has examples that are basically just the 2e devil-body charms

[lament owl]

(She was a dynast but she didn’t exalt, to clarify)

[nova yew]

Yeah

She didn’t exalt

Her brother did though!

[velvet raft]

Alright, guess I have to get back to that

[nova yew]

She has so many feelings about this

[lament owl]

My guy… maybe deserved a second chance but that’s just because he never really had a first chance

Being one of the “lightless folk” of the Nexus undercity isn’t exactly a position with social mobility

[nova yew]

You just kinda had a sad life yeah
Honestly maybe things Will be better for you now

[velvet raft]

Oh wow check out Nadir caste

That is a strong start

I mean Night caste always is

But adding Integrity sweetens the pot

[nova yew]

Oh right the other awful detail.
Considering the mask as a pseudo father figure.

Truly peak deathknight behavior

[velvet raft]

Unsurprising but a bit disappointing

[lament owl]

Funnily enough all of us do kinda like Mask

[velvet raft]

In the sense that if spells had been cheaper for all Infernals that would have been cool

[lament owl]

At least at game start

[lament owl]

Yeah I could see that
Infernals do seem like the best sorcerers besides solars

[velvet raft]

It was explicitly the case in 2e

Infernals were the only Exalts to whom sorcery just came naturally, not requiring any intelligence or occult

[nova yew]

We’re here to make our lord proud!

[velvet raft]

They weren't necessarily stronger sorcerers than solars, but it was trivial for an infernal to have a bit of sorcery, in essence.

[lament owl]

“Omg I love my deathlord! the man! The boss! “

[velvet raft]

Er, not in Essence

[lament owl]

Lmao

[velvet raft]

XD

They also couldn't use SMAs

[buoyant summit]

I got in let's fucking gooooooo

Changing Moon Lunar Time

[ruby geyser]

i will note i feel like the Azimuth Devil-Body trigger needs to be rewritten cause it seems like you'd never trigger if without first triggering the default one(default is 'on taking damage to a -4 health level', Azimuth is 'on taking damage to a -4 health level while fighting in support of a major/def intimacy as long as she has no more than (Essence/2) undamaged -4 levels remaining')

[feral cipher]

that's my incredible power, you're welcome

[nova yew]

His wicked beam

[velvet raft]

I actually cannot remember how the Lunar bond worked for Infernals in 2e, I vaguely feel like maybe it was gone or weakened?

[ruby geyser]

no it was 100% there and fully intact

[velvet raft]

Okay

[nova yew]

Infernals seem neat

[velvet raft]

I really liked them in the previous edition

[ruby geyser]

Infernals seem like very much your kind of thing Karen

(affectionate)

[velvet raft]

3e looks ... fine

[ruby geyser]

they're all about building fucked up slimy weirdos

[velvet raft]

In 2e, they were explicitly chosen from people who had suffered some great failure

[feral cipher]

karen when the characters are infernal

[velvet raft]

A moment where they could have done something amazing

And they ended up failing to accomplish anything at all

[ruby geyser]

also yeah, it remains true in 3e, infernals are by default failures who are given the power to seek revenge

[buoyant summit]

lmao thanks

[velvet raft]

They're way more about revenge now

[nova yew]

MEAN TO ME

[ruby geyser]

[feral cipher]

incredible emote thank you

[velvet raft]

@nova yew I want you to think about what it implies about the Yozis that these are the people they feel are most like them

[bleak hazel]

devs on discord say that should be -2

[ruby geyser]

that makes way more sense

[bleak hazel]

question: does the Blight devil-body option have some kind of targeting thing I haven't seen or is it literally just "when you activate this, automatically Pattern Spider Touch everyone unless they have a shaping defence charm"?

[velvet raft]

Because more than other exalts, infernals are in the process of becoming like their patrons, perhaps even parts of their patrons