Exalted

[prisma sun]

I think with 3rd the idea of having an abused Lunar would be like
The horror of someone you loved slowly succumb to something that is making them entirely different

[bleak hazel]

there's a Hearteater charm in Exigents that is ominous hovering, it's basically Graceful Crane 2

[winged swallow]

3m reflexive/one scene, yeah that's abt what i thought

[bleak hazel]

although you do need a second one to let you fly while moving rather than just while stationary

I feel you could swap in that part for "immune to prone", which I'm not so keen on as reflexive/that cheap

and have continuous hovering as a slightly cooler 2-3m Graceful Crane

there is also the possibility that when we do get Devil-Body you can just do all of this with that

[winged swallow]

yeah but devil-bodies are not like a thing you can just get going on a whim, iirc

gotta hit -4 or meet Special Conditions and such

[bleak hazel]

absolutely no idea how they're going to balance that with the level of juice packed into the example one but I will watch with interest

[winged swallow]

there are a few restrictions they can throw on it tbh

drop in resonance, loss of SMA use or mastery? idk

needing to meet Restrictive Conditions is already a big gate

and hitting -4 is Dicey

furthermore

that example is from a while back

it's entirely possible they dial it down some

[bleak hazel]

the swing is what's worrying me, not the concept of "you need to hit a thing to go super mode"

[winged swallow]

which i would Understand

[tulip folio]

What is the example one we've seen?

[bleak hazel]

like, Demon: The Descent is balanced around the players having a win button that puts them extremely heavily in the shit when they use it, but in Exalted I would be slightly concerned that either everyone hits go-time and the boss evaporates or they don't and they end up feeling slightly lackluster

[winged swallow]

true

Going Loud does do that, huh

sometimes i forget that abt DtD, and i say that as a DtD enjoyer

[bleak hazel]

sidebar is just some clutter, ignore that

[tulip folio]

Infinite Guile Devil-Body + Black Claw

'Aww, he's just a little guy' - People talking about the guy who just tore his own face off to reveal the void.

[bleak hazel]

that was my first thought too, but that's base guile

[tulip folio]

Aww. XD

[winged swallow]

being able to use Black Claw while you look like that is never not gonna be funny to me

similarly when you're in DBT

[bleak hazel]

also it's slightly jank, because it never specifies what intimacy you add for NSFM

[tulip folio]

Black Claw Lunar going DBT just turns into the Most Anime Catgirl.

[bleak hazel]

or whether it resets your usual Read Intentions

but I would generally put this on the level of "moteless Tyrant Lizard transform" so you can see why I'd rather they be a little less cracked and a little more accessible

[winged swallow]

i'd be okay with that

less cracked/more accessible

[tulip folio]

But yeah...I kinda hope that devil bodies are a bit more 'build your own' than 'we have like 6-7 choices'.

They remind me a lot of Apocalyptic Forms from Demon: The Fallen.

[winged swallow]

i wanna be able to use my devil-body more often, y'know

i also hope they're more free-form, yeah

tbh?

[bleak hazel]

the actual QC is nothing special

[winged swallow]

some shit like the drawback for Going Loud in DtD, but for activating a Devil-Body would be kinda rad?

[bleak hazel]

Green Sun Nimbus Flare is back

also Golden Years Tarnished Black

[tulip folio]

...yessssss

[winged swallow]

i want heaven to come hunting for my ass

[bleak hazel]

but I would expect these to be as different as the adversaries Sids were from the actual Sids, which is a lot

[winged swallow]

give me another motherfucker to come after me beyond the wyld hunt

[tulip folio]

Golden Years Tarnished Black is just the most toxic asshole charm and I'm so happy to hear it's making a return.

[bleak hazel]

you know if the Sids are going to be the default adversaries for two and three-halves splats at the same time they should have added some more Sids

[tulip folio]

I could see them having charms that improve Devil-Body like how Lunars have various 'shapechange better' charms. Keep the base effects not that insane and let people spec harder into super form if they want.

[winged swallow]

kinda comes with being Celestial CIA

but more Sids would be cool, yah

overworked as it is, maidens, c'mon

give em a few more reinforcements

[bleak hazel]

the Getimian example character actually has some serious bullshit, which I guess fits with what they're like in Essence

"I bank 16 non-charm dice and add them to a clash, I win"

[wise ocean]

... I read that as d6 and went "oh, okay"

[winged swallow]

any charms that let you bank dice or whatever, generally have a limit for how many you can throw at one given thing

so that's

yeah

[bleak hazel]

Miracles actually errataed all banked dice charms to count as non-charm, thus making Solar Stealth even more broken than it already was

[winged swallow]

deep inhale

[bleak hazel]

word of Vance is that that was dumb and you should ignore it more than the rest of Miracles

I love the devs beefing with the previous devs

[winged swallow]

we do not talk abt miracles

[tulip folio]

Unironically: I think the Infernal book should have a good bit on non-demons in the adversaries section. We have quite a few demons statted already and while a few more wouldn't be bad, I don't think we need a lot.

[winged swallow]

miracles of the solar exalted is not real, it cannot hurt me

[tulip folio]

What would be good is more heavenly guys statted

[bleak hazel]

I want two more Third Circles

[tulip folio]

For 'Hey, these are the guys that are going to try to jump your Infernal/what a sid would be bringing as backup'

[bleak hazel]

Ligier, natch, and Sutarankal

[winged swallow]

yeah i would like some more 3cds

i could see one or two entries being given to like

that

[tulip folio]

That's fair.

[bleak hazel]

Sutarankal is just fun, and while I hope he's not Designated SMA Teacher because they spent their one exception to the rule on Bishop already, I still hope he has some hot shit

[winged swallow]

similar to how uhhh

Alchemicals gives you some Gremlins and an Apostate

[bleak hazel]

honestly I still think the default opposition for an Infernal is deebs

they're still newly exalted solar-grade lads and as such many of them will have local ambitions

[tulip folio]

Sutarankal really makes me feel like Martial Arts should have also gotten initiations like how sorcery does. XD

[bleak hazel]

even for Exalts, immediately jumping to punching the gods in the face is a rare thing

as opposed to that bastard queen who disinherited my mother

[winged swallow]

yet another L for the martial artist merit

[bleak hazel]

you... didn't actually let them see spirits, guys

this adds sux to an inapplicable roll

at least with sight

[tulip folio]

...you could totally make Sutarankal's brand a very fun 'These are merits you unlock from your initiation'.

You can leverage it against Martial Artists and Demons as a minor intimacy of awe.

etc

[bleak hazel]

what does this even do

getimians why

the Infernal at least makes sense

[winged swallow]

i'm be real

this perhaps a bad use of time

[bleak hazel]

Crucible truly is about 40% of a book

the 40% is really good, though

[winged swallow]

crucible has some good stuff in it, and then a lot of nothing stuff, yeah

[wise ocean]

does, uh

does that actually block anything or does it just have penalties for misses

[bleak hazel]

oh, I'm not doing this because I think it provides serious information on Infernals or Getimians

[tulip folio]

It reads like something you spend after you block an attack?

[bleak hazel]

I'm doing it because I haven't read these before and it's funny

[winged swallow]

hm, alright then

[bleak hazel]

that's handy

and then one more for luck

[tulip folio]

So it lets you basicly replace one intimacy with another for the scene?

[winged swallow]

sorry to interrupt the get-complaining but: hey boss, what did you mean by this?

[bleak hazel]

so Heartearters have two floaty charms

[winged swallow]

right

[bleak hazel]

the E1 one is hover while still, immune to prone, the E2 one is pay 2 motes to float while moving

[tulip folio]

I feel like sleeper guiding should really say it can only do shadow intimacies on intimacies of a value equal or lower to the intimacy you made. So you can't replace a Defining 'Justice' intimacy with a minor 'I like cakes' one to make them go get snacks instead of fighting you. XD

[bleak hazel]

immune to prone at E1 is a bit much for a rider on your floaty charm, I think - Serpentine is a 4 dot merit and only ignores the penalty for being prone while having additional downsides

so I'd just go "1m to hover while still, pay 2m to float sideways" as the E1 thing

[winged swallow]

📝

tight

[bleak hazel]

Serpentine also makes you a cool lamia but the immaculates may not be down with being beaten up by the WC3 Naga Royal Guard

[winged swallow]

i'm already a freak in different ways

[bleak hazel]

the hearteater charms are generally pretty cool, with the exception of one combat one

[tulip folio]

To be fair, nobody who encounters the WC3 naga royal guard is down with it 😛

Fucker's bullshit

[winged swallow]

which one?

[bleak hazel]

hello, Abyssal Meleeist

punches your guile, no defensive charms for you

also has really weird interactions with defensive charm declarations

do you have to excellency both to stop it just swapping to the weak one? nobody knows

[winged swallow]

hm, i might steal the wording on that intimacy bonus bit for my soulsteel reaper daiklave im workin on

[tulip folio]

It feels like it should be like 'Treats the target's base defence as equal to their guile, if its lower'

So like rather than Targeting Guile, it's Penalizing Defence if you've got bad guile.

[bleak hazel]

like, cool move, attacking guile is in a few places, it doing the either-or thing makes it a bit silly

and it's a little too cheap

[tulip folio]

It would be very fun if they added some third circle demons but like...not just the super well known ones. I'd love to see Madelrada make an appearance as 'one of the few surviving souls from the primordial war' puts her in a very interesting place.

Also having a quick foe who's designed to make armies Real Scary would be fun next to all the 'hey, it's a dawn, they will personally shitkick' combatants.

[bleak hazel]

I tend to benchmark the hit-guile effects against The Spear Not Held, which admittedly does like seventy things

but it being withering-only means you can't use it to no-contest lop someone's head off, and it being a big expensive package charm means you can't spam it

there are also some unfooable things in Abyssals that are resisted with Resolve instead

[tulip folio]

Erembour would also be fun as a not-really-a-combat-challenge third circle. She can fight but she's not really here to do that.

[bleak hazel]

TSNH is admittedly one of the best soakbusters in the game, since you can come in against mr tankman and slap him with a chunky 4-6 extra successes against 5 or so guile-soak, for something like a 12-15 withering damage hit

unless they have soak-boosting magic specifically

which tends to be expensive

[winged swallow]

play your funny tunes, shadow lady

i watch as some dude gets turned into the typhon from prey

[bleak hazel]

Lunars/Alchs can excellency their soak, which helps a lot there

also it's just cool

oh yeah, Erembour is also neat

[fierce star]

Prey mentioned! ... 🤔 ||morgan yu as a get?||

[tulip folio]

Alch/Sid locked in Tactical Brain Combat as they keep attempting to outcalculate the other in the countless exchanges.

[bleak hazel]

this scene, but one of them is Megaman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB4L6qYFMG0

[winged swallow]

"They are LITERALLY just standing there looking at each other intensely."

[tulip folio]

'They're either about to fight or fuck. Maybe both'

[bleak hazel]

(this is also just a fun wuxia fight, but I'm sure everyone here has seen Hero already)

[winged swallow]

i have not

inb4 Misc says "what the fuck"

[bleak hazel]

this is like ten minutes in so you're not missing much

also we must watch Hero

because it is gorgeous

[winged swallow]

hey man you pick a night and we can watch it in the other server

[bleak hazel]

it's also kind of Chinese state propaganda but that just makes it better Realm fodder

it is the most deeb movie ever made

[winged swallow]

maybe it'll give me some good stunt inspiration

[bleak hazel]

without wanting to go "it gave me permission to be weird" it kind of did

my stunts for Vigil got like 30% better

[winged swallow]

but seriously, if you wanna stream it you can make an event out of it in the other server and i'll cruise in when it's time

[bleak hazel]

I'll see if I can find a good steam for it, yeah

the English translation misses one very cool moment but otherwise isn't bad

[winged swallow]

i'm fine with subs

[bleak hazel]

it's a Zhang Yimou film, the dialogue is set dressing anyway

like, in Princess Bride the swordfighting is background to the conversation, in Hero the conversation is background to people being unreasonably spinny in flowing robes

[tulip folio]

notes down 'unreasonably spinny' as a dodge spec

[bleak hazel]

I already subjected Gyr to it back when I was first planning deebgame, but I can put it on again

I can probably do tomorrow or the day after, but let me check some stuff

also do watch the scene I posted because it is just that charm

and in fact is probably the inspiration for that charm

[winged swallow]

rest of the circle just like: "c-can we join in yet?"

[bleak hazel]

"no, we have not had enough shots of us staring deeply into each others' eyes"

[tulip folio]

It's not exactly how it's mentioned in the books but I will admit, this is 100% of my mental image for 'Alchemical spends enough motes to start gaining an anima level'

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GkB8SLCXUAAx2RO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[winged swallow]

"man.. come on, the infernal's already walking away and looking at other stuff.."

[tulip folio]

I am a sucker for 'oh, the robot's eyes started glowing. This is bad'

[bleak hazel]

this is not the best fight in Hero but it is my second favourite just on drip

the best fight is the green fight

[winged swallow]

it's got good juice yah

[bleak hazel]

they are all colour-coded

[winged swallow]

now if i can just find the words to describe what was going on in that fight

we'll be golden

[bleak hazel]

I wish I could find a decent stream of House of Flying Daggers, I've tried so many times and I just cannot, because it has the most gorgeous visuals

[winged swallow]

yeah i miss HoFD

[bleak hazel]

I am this close to just buying the DVD and streaming it that way

[winged swallow]

that shit was good

man, maybe you should just do it

that's your own copy forever then, y'know

joys of physical media and whatnot

[bleak hazel]

my birthday's in two weeks, I will probably pick it up then

still a huge fan of the final battle from that film

not the best swordfight ever but definitely the best set dressing

Ukraine went from gloriously sunny to snowstorm while they were filming and they decided that they should keep going and make the world's best wide shot

oh yeah, one thing I do want from Infernals

Peronelles stats

they're the one member of the standard sorceror 1cd cohort we don't have yet

[prisma sun]

Y'know I can't see myself making any of my Exalted OCs godblooded

I think the eclipse charm is fun but it always feels Too Much even for Exalted

[bleak hazel]

I want to get the cool dracula ghost charms for my Abyssal but that's more that it's a more efficient way to abyssalize than dumping 7 into Athletics on my nerd just so he can fly

[prisma sun]

I feel like that can be solved through getting an artifact

[tulip folio]

I like the godblooded thing for letting you get a bit of extra oddity. LIke I've got a Jadeborn-blooded sid who made use of it.

[winged swallow]

it's a fun narrative permission charm for the most part

creates neat hooks

like being the hybrid child of a devil-star

she's gonna come looking for her kid eventually, to train and raise into a soldier against heaven

[tulip folio]

I had fun writing about a jadeborn parent being really unhappy with the sids over this but I think I've already posted that here before.

[bleak hazel]

I generally consider "Exalt" enough variety in juice but X-bloods are great to have for minions

the other Abyssal in Crimson's game has a custom charm or two that mirror the Lunar trials-for-beastmanhood thing, except it makes you a Victorian aristocrat

ghostbloodification

[tulip folio]

I mostly do it if I want a story with a bit of a twist. Like for that Sid, having a parent who would Know About The Concept Of Sids enough to be pissy.

[bleak hazel]

they don't age, although they die at the usual time, they have fangs, they hate going outside shadowlands and if they fail the trials they instead die of Victorian Novel Wasting Disease

also they're all ethereal and pretty because Vix likes vampire the masquerade

[tulip folio]

Is there a large number of fainting couches set up for them?

[bleak hazel]

presumably

if not Crimson can surely ship some in

[fierce star]

I do appreciate a good fainting couch

[prisma sun]

Ye that's sorta my stance on it
Godblood to me just feels Seperate.

[winged swallow]

i think having the option is neat

some people will not consider 5dts for an eclipse charm, thematically-relevant mutations permission, and potential plot hooks, as a worthy price, and of course some will think too much juice is excessive

[fierce star]

If you can work it into the character well, I think it works great. And it's expensive enough I dont' see it as like, a path to powergamers doing bad stuff either.

[winged swallow]

then, conversely, there are the freaks who want that shit

[fierce star]

I wouldn't use it for every character, but I like the option existing for those that I would use it on

[winged swallow]

i don't even know that it would be particularly powergame-y even if it was priced lower?

like. 5dts of merits is what

15xp?

[bleak hazel]

the enlightened mortal variant gets a few more eclipse charms, but just one one on exalts is fine

[winged swallow]

that's a non-favored charm and a lil' bit extra, and there are not Many eclipse charms

[bleak hazel]

hell, captain eclipse can load up on those things for cheaper

[winged swallow]

yeah

one base eclipse charm for exalts, with the potential to buy maybe 1-2 more

is like Fine™

[bleak hazel]

there are like 3-4 eclipse charms I like from a powergaming point of view, and most of those are just ways to skip to higher essence effects without trucking through a whole tree I don't really care about

[tulip folio]

I need to go through eclipse charms to understand them better. Any favorites?

[bleak hazel]

the exceptions are the agg punch Glory was looking at earlier (infected wounds is so-so, but lots of builds don't have agg on demand, it's a reasonable price mote-wise and it can be handy) and Whirling Hair Defence, which is an incredibly efficient defensive button

like, "might be worth it on Solar Melee" efficient, although only if you're really squeezing

[tulip folio]

I really like that anti-social one.

[bleak hazel]

the juicy ones are Pattern Venom (expensive poison that instead of doing damage rolls one die a round, force a fumble on the order of "flurry to pick your sword back up" on a success) and the floaty charm from Tepet Vlad

[tulip folio]

It won't work vs all social stuff but it's a solid 'no, won't work on me'

[bleak hazel]

which is one essence level higher than the equivalent Abyssal flying charm in Athletics, but slightly more efficient and doesn't need you to buy all your way to it

my efficient nerd fighting style for Crimson is ox-body, whirling hair defence, flying thing and Flying Guillotine Style

possibly dipping the first two charms of Thousand Wounds Gear later

[tulip folio]

Oh wow, Whirling Hair is Cheap

[bleak hazel]

(for reference)

the launch of Wings of the Gale is actually very handy, because you don't need to disengage when using a charm that just moves you

so this is a clean escape as well as flight

lift up two and start legging it

E4, though

Whirling Hair is a better-than-excellency defence boost so it'd be mote-value just for that, but the soak is neat

[tulip folio]

The Alch ability to learn eclipse charms seems like it would really like a lot of these

As alch-learned eclipse charms don't take slots

So Wings of the Gale would replace like 4 slots worth of charms to get the jetpack

[prisma sun]

Playing a harpy would be really fun

I wonder if I should just have that be a lunar

[winged swallow]

castlevania ship captain voice ya could. ya surely could.

[prisma sun]

How does the Realm feel about wyld tainted deebs?

I dont think I ever saw that come up

[velvet raft]

An Excrucian ⁉️

[winged swallow]

it was glitch the whole time :D

[velvet raft]

I dunno that has more warmain vibes.

[winged swallow]

i am not amazingly aware of what deceivers/warmains do compared to strategists admittedly

[velvet raft]

Warmains test things and, if they find them worthy, incorporate them into themselves.

If something really impresses them, they make themselves a part of it, taking on its identity (but remaining a warmain).

They’re also the most direct violent threats among Excrucians.

Typically, to win against a warmain, one needs to defeat them in a way they find extremely disappointing.

The classic example is a power of the game dueling one and repeatedly using Dead Spouse Defense to survive getting stabbed.

As the warmain begins to realize they may actually lose to someone who is specifically weaker than them.

[tulip folio]

I imagine an element of it is 'not be so clever in your outmanuvering them that your tactical capabilities themselves become a notable, worthy trait'

[winged swallow]

what about deceivers then

[velvet raft]

It also depends on the warmain, as different ones have different tests and definitions of worth.

[velvet raft]

Deceivers begin as Creational entities subjected to a trauma so great that they can only conclude that the world is a lie, a cruel fiction that conceals a “true thing” of beauty. They claim to love us, but not any part of ourselves that we would recognize. For them, the whole thing is very philosophical, and they are incapable of perceiving or navigating the Ninuan of Strategists and Warmains. They often seem preoccupied with “disproving” Creation, and can imbue the world around them with elements of their personal mythology. They can also put on “second skins” that let them copy the powers of other beings, but if a second skin is named they can be bound to perform a service for the speaker. Of the Excrucian types they’re the least immediate physical threats, but they have a penchant for corruption and for refusing to die.

Deceivers and strategists disagree, vociferously, on a lot of stuff.

But are between them sorta the paradigmatic excrucians.

Warmains are kinda The Dreaded by contrast: the natural predators of Ninuan, the wolves at the gate. And mimics are the soggiest, most pitiful beings one can ever meet.

They’re also playing Creation’s most dangerous hidden role game and get to make Powers of their own.

My personal Exalted crossover fanfic idea involves one Excrucian of each type ending up in Exalted Creation via the Well of Udr, with ensuing shenanigans.

[winged swallow]

warmain kinda reminds me of a hearteater in a sense

[velvet raft]

The Excrucians in general have a lot of Raksha DNA.

Not accidentally, given Jenna wrote for 1E.

The Forest Witches are her baby.

[tulip folio]

Raksha are fun, though I think for all Jenna wrote about them they do suffer a bit from 'okay but when would players learn this or care?' XD

As her writing didn't really take away from 'yep, these guys are 95% of the time a threat you need to stab in the face and it's morally fine to do so'

[velvet raft]

Excrucians do a lot more with the baseline concept of “maybe the evil elves have got a good point”, I think.

[fierce star]

wait, the forest witches aer originally from ex1?

[tulip folio]

I do find it funny that Exalted has two entirely different sets of elves that are actually the same set of elves.

In the Raksha and the Jadeborn

[velvet raft]

Yep. IMO Ex1 leaned harder into High Weirdness than any edition since, for better or worse. There used to be an archive of dev commentary that was pretty fascinating.

[velvet raft]

subraces

[fierce star]

huh, I actually didn't know that

I got in near the tail of ex1 so never really got deep into it compared to ex2

[bleak hazel]

there is still some, actually

[velvet raft]

Jenna Moran’s work in particular had an affection nickname that was a portmanteau of a (then current) dead last name of hers

[bleak hazel]

I always assumed that was just a pen name

but yeah, "borgstromancy" is just a good word to say

[tulip folio]

I had a good bit of fun playing about with the fact that Jadeborn and Raksha are actually the same species, just very divergent due to what happened. Making the homebrew Jadeborn 'Oh, I'm limit breaking' have a chance to either go 'Too earth-aligned' or 'dangerously wyld aligned, as some of the old fae nature leaks through'.

[bleak hazel]

http://nobilis-aleph.wikidot.com/quotes-exalted
this isn't all of it, and a lot of it I just completely ignore because I think it's silly, but there is some fun stuff there

[velvet raft]

One of my favorites is Gabrowski’s remark about why all these mega-genius characters in Creation don’t just solve all of its problems.

This might be paraphrasing a bit, but: “Intelligence doesn’t mean you’ll do the right thing, it just means you’ll do an excellent job of the wrong one.”

Which is such a perfect refutation of the “I’ll solve it with algorithms” mindset.

[tulip folio]

Hmm...vaguely pondering a destruction-themed shaping ritual. Something like 'when you destroy something of value, gain motes that last for a while'. Less 'has to be a sacrafice' than some of them, as it totally works if you like...blow up a building.

My thoughts is:

-Gives some sorcerous motes based on the value of what you destroyed, lasts until end of story. So destroying an expensive statue is worth more than snapping a dagger.
-If the object would be purchased with Artifact, Manse or Demese dots and you permanently destroyed it, it gives a *lot* more.
-You don't need to own the thing, you can 100% get a charge by shattering an enemy weapon or sieging an enemy castle into dusts

With the general vibe being basicly an object based haruspicy, gaining insight into the world by reading it in the shattered fragments of parts of that world.

Though will need to work out how many motes are good for that/how often they can be gained.

The idea is to promote Feats of Demolition and such

[fierce star]

Interesting

[velvet raft]

Part of why I like this idea is because Excrucians pretty handily outclass the Exalted but only Warmains could avoid being punted across a continent by a dawn. Their powers tend to be a lot weirder, and often focused on wielding narrative contrivance as a tool.

[velvet raft]

Anyway @winged swallow to sum all of this up:

Excrucian justifications for murder:
Deceiver: You don't actually exist
Strategist: You deserve it
Warmain: I felt like it okay
Mimic: AAAAAAAAAAAA

[prisma sun]

My personal antagoniat in the scant Nobilis game I played was a Warmain

[winged swallow]

oh i never realized there was a fourth kind of excrucian

[velvet raft]

Oh, yeah, mimics are fake imperators made (usually by strategists) from the pieces of a dead real imperator.

The strategist puts a core of hatred for Creation in the center, recreating the estates as something corrosive to existence.

Mimics masquerade as real imperators and can even make Nobles.

[prisma sun]

So how does the Realm handle Wyld-tainted deebs

I still couldnt find anything about it

[velvet raft]

It probably depends on what we mean by wyld tainted.

[prisma sun]

Im considering a harpy-like Dragonblood

Where they Got Whings

Hwings

[bleak hazel]

I keep wanting to make time to read Nobilis but you do need a lot of time to read Nobilis

[prisma sun]

I managed it by just kinda skimming through for the most part

[velvet raft]

Less than you’d think! 3e is pretty brisk.

[prisma sun]

But when people bring up the other lines the conversation does become a little impenetrable

[velvet raft]

A lot of wyld mutations are just wholly external changes, so I expect there would be some social stigma but not anything too crazy.

They’re still one of the Chosen.

[winged swallow]

i can't imagine one's non-mutant peers would be very nice about it behind closed doors

[raw owl]

See, I feel like overt mutations would be where the Dynasty draws an actual line

[winged swallow]

but if you're adhering to the Immaculate Order and you're still trying to forward your house's goals

[raw owl]

"You can't sit with us, you're practically an Anathema"

[winged swallow]

i'm pretty sure there's a Realm-aligned Beastfolk DB in one of the books

[velvet raft]

Especially given it’s very possible to end up with mutations in the line of duty.

Are people going to talk shit about a war hero who got a bug arm along the way? Yeah, of course, Dynasts frequently run on high school logic. Are they still a war hero? I think definitely.

[raw owl]

I might be giving them too little credit, I admit

[winged swallow]

it's one of those like

[velvet raft]

I think it would typically have social connotations similar to a disfiguring injury.

[winged swallow]

behind closed doors? they might absolutely besmirch you

might

maybe there are some who will stick up for you on account of your sacrifice

like uh

hm

take god-blooded DBs for example, right

[velvet raft]

People can be dicks about those, but.

[winged swallow]

the fault is not placed on the DB themself

but rather on their parent/s

i imagine it's something like that y'know, if it's an inherited thing

of course if you got mutated just for Fucking Around, then i can imagine that's probably frowned upon somewhat severely

that's Jeopardizing Your Immortal Soul! bro, your virtue! what if you don't exalt in your next life???

[prisma sun]

The little idea I have right now is "Deeb Hearth on safari after graduating college find a lone Dragonblood out in the Threshold, decide to take them in and bring them back to the Isle."

[winged swallow]

"we found this lost egg out in the threshold, an' they're all fucked up. can we keep them??"

[prisma sun]

Meanwhile Winged Bird Dragonblood is sitting on a building and going "Why is everything so BIG"

[bleak hazel]

this seems about standard for lost eggs

[velvet raft]

My deeb in Stepnix’s game was part of an immaculate weapons project and got kitty ears and partial anterograde and retrograde amnesia from Wyld exposure for her troubles.

But the project leader is the disgraced one, not her.

And as she’s still one of the few Nellens DBs, there’s an active effort to rehabilitate her and get her to work.

[bleak hazel]

the example Deeb hearth in WFHW is scattered all over the place to give a representative sample of deebs, but I imagine they're not the only bunch of dynasts with one outcaste attached

[velvet raft]

Dynasts don’t have it nearly as bad as Sids but they are still stretched thin.

And an asset is an asset.

[bleak hazel]

well, they're stretched thin in the sense that any group of Exalts is

besides maybe Lookshy and Prasad with their absurd deeb concentrations

[raw owl]

Prasad might not be stretched thin as such but the Dreaming Sea is what one might call an "endgame expansion pack biome"

[next delta]

🤔 an Exalt let's one do stuff that normally requires a lot of state capacity, but I wonder if that has hurt Creation's various civilizations' ability to generate state capacity in a more sustainable way?

[velvet raft]

Exalts are also enormous force multipliers for state capacity.

They can build it very quickly and keep it working above normal capacity.

[next delta]

Right, but it gets bundled up too heavily into a small number, or even one, person. A person who is very likely to suddenly die violently

I guess it's like exalthood encourages organizations to have a small "bus factor"

[bleak hazel]

they certainly have lots of states

I would imagine having hundreds of administrators who average out as "somewhat better than the best statesman mortal humanity has ever produced" before they start learning specific magical tricks for staffing the Thousand Scales is one of the reasons the Realm is reasonably successful at running an empire around the size of the 1920s British Empire with semaphore and sailing ships

and they don't die that often, they do live for centuries even if the stated mortality curve for deebs doesn't make very much sense

[bleak hazel]

I did a quick fermi estimates on the data we've got (since it tells us how many kids deebs tend to have and that the population is stable) and it suggests something like a 1.1% Realm dragonblood mortality rate per year, which if it actually was a nice straight line suggests that maybe 3% of dragons actually die in bed and 30% make it to their 100th birthday

[next delta]

Does that mean it is actually pretty reasonable then?

[bleak hazel]

we're told that about half reach 100, which would be about a 0.7% mortality rate instead

[next delta]

Ah

I wasn't expecting them to underestimate the mortality rate tbh

[bleak hazel]

assuming it's literally one value, which is probably not true but given deebs don't start dying of old age until well past 200 it's not going to be a neat curve

[next delta]

Clearly the issue is that they didn't figure out the social tech for superior transfer of power methods (such as democracy). Though I guess the Shogunate has been kicking around for a very long time and presumably had several peaceful transfers is power

Something, something the Realm is an outlier adn should not have been counted

[bleak hazel]

wait, missed a number, ignore that

OK, much more reasonable, 53 year old man/59 year old American woman

[next delta]

They do live in a much more dangerous setting than modern US citizens tbf

[bleak hazel]

you would generally not put as the biggest risk to your organisation "what if the 53-year-old manager kicks the bucket in the next year"

not unless you had some additional information beyond age

besides, in the deeb case this is definitely a lumpy curve, because young deebs who aren't lifelong soldiers or Immaculate monks go do various heroic and irresponsible things before coming home as they age out of young deeb adulthood (so like 60, probably) and then start running things

the soldiers and monks keep kicking arse until they fall over dead, Tepet Arada is an old man now but personally fought both the Bull three years ago and Joakim, a similar Dawn warlord 180 years ago

[next delta]

Yeah, though my thesis is that they centralize power enough that it will be extra bad if they kick the bucket compared to a normal human organization (but the competency and longevity advantages of Exalts encourage this over something more robust). Mostly it's a bit weird to me that the Exalted history is so long but you have kind of "primitive" government organizations in most places? Though Creation having had several apocalyptic level events hit it might also be enough to explain that

[bleak hazel]

yeah, the last apocalypse was 800 years back

and the tech level is by no means neat

Exalts absolutely tend to have lower bus factors than mortals, but at the same time they are ludicrously stupidly mega good at stuff, so you want them running things anyway

[next delta]

I thought they were still generally expected to go fight the various aggressive things? Though there is also probably a big difference between a DB that retires to a holding in the Realm and one that holds a post in the Threshold

[bleak hazel]

Solaroids are most prone to this because all their tech is leader-facing

they have no spooky action at a distance charms except for stuff they are personally running or at least making policy for

they have to be in charge

[next delta]

Yeah, if the Solars were still in power I'd expect it to be a lot worse

[bleak hazel]

Sids aren't actually great at running things by exalt standards, they lead orgs by ruthlessly rooting out corruption and then stacking a bunch of persistent buffs on them instead

deebs have very good bureaucracy but also work well together

[next delta]

And they don't have the teamwork tech of DBs. Which I guess is why the solar deliberative was a conclave of a bunch of different dictatorships aiui

[bleak hazel]

solars being one man societal keystones is pretty core to the setting, yes

but any Exalt with some excellencies can run a kingdom

mortals manage, and they can't open palm peak human dice pools at anything they are remotely competent in to supplement their core skillset

[next delta]

I do think it's hard to explain how the guild is all mortal run given the mechanics

But maybe a giant, Creation spanning trading guild is the thing that requires a very large bus factor

[chilly sluice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/763518209034289192/1403412600326324224/chess_position.png?ex=68977556&is=689623d6&hm=0f16e9419f2c63ded12d43929d556321beb87f38515586441ce7aacc651998e1&

Is this a Sidereal trick?

[bleak hazel]

(average deeb with 2 Int, 3 bureaucracy and a spec in The Thousand Scales throws 9 dice with 2 autosux from the excellency, doubles 6s and slightly exceeds the absolute peak mortal bureaucrat's best effort)

[next delta]

The smartest mortals in Creation must be infuriated by that woman

[bleak hazel]

you now understand about half the motivation of the Guild, yes

the guild is mostly not ran by exalts because The Guild is even more decentralised than the Silver Pact is

so occasionally they just go "welp, that caravan is ran by an outcaste now, cut it out of the whisper network"

it has serious formal presence in the Scavenger Lands, which is a bit odd, but Lookshy has also gone full Responsibility To Protect on that place for the last while and their base is Nexus, which is maintained as Ancap City USA by a council of strange and powerful entities keeping it that way

[bleak hazel]

or potentially, if you're focusing on the "back to the garden" part:

[lunar magnet]

The Guild still ultimately answers to the Realm, because military might.

[bleak hazel]

well, bits of the guild answer to the realm

the Realm's military might does not extend into Nexus with great reliability

it's basically the city patricians of medieval europe writ really large and with an east india company skin on top, it's one of those not-primary-but-relevant power centres that varies per region

(the actual patricians are not this, for some reason, but they do come up in the Realm Civil War chapter)

[lunar magnet]

I don't think the Guild has enough going for it for the Realm to worry too much

They get a say, they're important enough, they're useful

[bleak hazel]

they have no aspirations to displace the Realm or anything, but they to have to be taken into account when the Realm is doing big planning things

they don't make perfect sense, but it's better than the old edition Guild where the Guild is somehow a rigidly structured bronze age megacorp

[prisma sun]

The guild is the economy of most of creation

It is both the realms biggest trade partner and also their main economic rival

Its like "yeah you could militarily take me over, but if youre at that point your society is actively collapsing into anarchy"

[bleak hazel]

I don't think it's either of those things, besides maybe "biggest trade partner in aggregate"

but it is sufficiently decentralised that "military takeover of the guild" doesn't really work

[prisma sun]

I dont think anything else comes close to holding the title

[bleak hazel]

you're not going to put legionnaires on all the random caravans and ships

[next delta]

Hmm, the Guild still has a relatively small number (a dozen?) head honcho types right? Maybe it'd be better (from an "resistance to Exalts sense") if they were even more decentralized

[prisma sun]

I forget how many factors there are

I think its probably 10-50

[next delta]

"how would you create an organization that is resilient to takeover by a single (or small number of) Exalted" is a neat question to consider

[prisma sun]

I imagine a lot of it is bribing gods to find out if a guy is an exalted

[bleak hazel]

Nexus is the base of the head honchos, yes

Nexus also has many fun features

I really like the Solar Doom Tomb industrial sector

"hey, perpetual energy machine"

[prisma sun]

Burning that ghost forever

[next delta]

Maybe it's heating up because people are saying something so ignorant of what they discovered that their corpse is producing vast amounts of waste heat from how fast it is spinning

[light olive]

Unquestionable who is bog that s impedes you both physically and rhetorically.

Actually. Maybe a second circle demon instead

[bleak hazel]

landscape forms are generally 3cds, but I feel this is a very straightforward Metagaos soul

[light olive]

Thats a good point. This was more meant for the oc yozi. And. Would. Yellow rotten ice go well with pretty chemicals for aesthetics?

Or is that too busy

[fierce star]

sounds fun to me

[fierce star]

Hmm. Would an artifact that allows EBA to be used as a form weapon for a short list of MAs be overpowered? Pondering again that performance/lore deeb idea and thinking about silver voiced nightingale style

[tulip folio]

I mean, the Sid counterpart can be used for any martial art that uses ranged weapons.

And it's better than base EBA (Though EBA has more support charms)

So I don't think it would be too much.

[fierce star]

kk

[winged swallow]

EBA?

[tulip folio]

Elemental Blast...something. Attack?

The DB 'I'm gunna throw a fireball at him'

[prisma sun]

Should be alright i think

[fierce star]

Elemental Bolt Attack, yeah

[tulip folio]

If you want it, I also wrote a martial art for EBA/Unweaving/Essense Pulse Cannon.

[winged swallow]

i wish i could work SVN with more MArts tbh

but

i guess it is ultimately geared to more socially-oriented characters

[bleak hazel]

what's the default range on EBA?

[tulip folio]

iirc it's treated as a thrown(short) weapon?

Though I should check book

[fierce star]

shor trange, yeah

spend an anima level to extend to medium

[bleak hazel]

Probably fine then, the main risk here is that you don't need to aim to lob fireballs and SVN is typically Short, but it's already got a cost attached, so go wild, seems like a perfectly valid thing for an artifact to do

If EBA was Long or something I might go "hang on a minute"

[tulip folio]

Essence Pulse Cannon is interesting as both the worst or best of these depending on just how much you boost it.

Base EPC is very vanilla/no special tricks (though it costs 3m instead of the 4 that EBA costs)

But then you get shit like this in the submodules:

'Yes, I would like multiattack charms on a siege weapon'

[fierce star]

the short list of MAs I am thinking: SVNS, Swaying Grass Dance, and maybe Wood Dragon or Crane. Both feels a little much; wood dragon could be fun, though it would let one shoot people's souls out of their bodies at short/medium range.

[tulip folio]

imo, go with MAs that have knives in the listed weapons.

As any of them can already do range, even if they pretend otherwise 😛

So like, Swaying Grass is 100% fine.

As you can already swaying grass with knives

[fierce star]

I went with 'ones that hav eperformance as a complentary ability', since it's an artifact instrument

though I know SGD is more dance

[prisma sun]

I think at that point in the homebrew you just let it combo as a weapon category

Like how the spell in the did thing counts as a chakram

[fierce star]

Eh, I want it to work with SVNS and that doesn't work with any weapons unfortunately, otherwise that would be an easy way out

[bleak hazel]

yeah, you can make the EPC the strongest weapon in the game by a huge margin, but it also costs you something like 40-50xp

I do like it though

big boom

and yes, I would pick only one style or one weapon category

EPC counts as knife and EPC counts as kiai are both solid

but creating new cross-compatibilities that don't otherwise exist gets weird very fast

[tulip folio]

I think you mean EBA. EPC isn't getting martial arts. XD

But yeah, I'd agree.

And also 'No, don't pick unarmed, that's cheating' 😛

[bleak hazel]

hey, maybe Collapsing Point of Judgement will let you fire the EPC from your colossus

[tulip folio]

Collapsing Point of Judgement? I am intrigued. XD

I know Collapsing POint of destruction for siege weapons.

[bleak hazel]

I believe CPoJ is the name of the implosion bow style mentioned for the Alch companion, legendary size only

[tulip folio]

Ah, yeah.

[bleak hazel]

not sure how that's going to work exactly, since Colossi only pop up at E5, but still, interesting

[tulip folio]

I do keep being tempted by 'Hey, EPC can turn into a siege weapon and they can learn evocations from artifacts they could otherwise use...'

But honestly at that point it's less EXP to just use the 'you can incorporate an artifact into your body' charm. XD

I kinda hope in the Alch Companion we get like...an Artifact Airship. Autothonian Airships are so cool and everyone loves a Cool Transport.

The Chariot of Aerial Conquest is a functional one but also like...kinda boring.

It does Basic Airship Things but doesn't really have an identity of its own

No evocations either.

imo, the best way to do an artifact airship would be to not focus on ship to ship combat and give it more like...tricks it can do to help, even if you're not in the ship.

Scanning, Fire Support or helping people evacuate a fight.

Something more for 'there is Support we are getting' than 'I have a ship, it will only matter if someone else has a ship'

But I'm overthinking this.

[fierce star]

overthinking is fun, though

[tulip folio]

I could see a really fun place for an airship's charm that lets you Withdraw without needing that 'get extreme range from every enemy and drop yourself to init -20 in the process'. Just have it zoom in and you take off hanging from a rope going 'We'll meet again. Next time I'll get you, next time!'

[next delta]

A charm for when you fall <long distance> the airship is there to catch you

[tulip folio]

I could see it being both for 'catch you' and also 'you can just jump out of the airship and land on the ground safely'

Make it a bit multi-purpose. XD

'The thing that already uses anti-gravity to fly makes use of its anti-gravity systems to make you not turn into a paste from gravity' is likely a pretty easy thing to justify. XD

[wise ocean]

One of those avoiding death charms, but it's "if you own this airship, you can never die from getting knocked up into the air / off a cliff / into the ocean / etc if no one sees you hit the ground"

[fierce star]

... who was it who had the sidereal who constantly pushed people off cliffs to kill them

was that voy

[prisma sun]

yea

Drifts in Gossamer would usually prefer just punting someone off a cliff or building to kill them

[fierce star]

his nefarious rival: anyone with the artifact airship discussed above

[next delta]

That one guy in Core who would not die if you didn't see the body

[tulip folio]

I think how I'd set it up:

-A bit expensive for 'negates falling damage' but works on anyone, not just the artifact's owner.
-Can pay extra motes to leave the scene if you'd fall long distance or more (The airship either evacs you or you're just safe and out of sight)
-General Autothonian Thing: Gets a lot cheaper if you're using it on a mortal.

[prisma sun]

Drifts watches them fall

[prisma sun]

Now if someone told him to kill someone and they didn't tell him they have a Magical Airship he'd be pretty upset about a few things.

[fierce star]

that part of his paperwork got lost

bureaucracy happened to it

[tulip folio]

Hmm...I am dangerously tempted to do this up as 'hey, you have like the Enterprise of Airships and notably: Like the enterprise, it's not a combat vessel first and foremost, it's for exploration and science'

[prisma sun]

"Ahhh, I'll have to put in a complaint to the Bureau of Endings after this.~"

The complaint:

https://tenor.com/view/big-bird-angry-door-fall-gif-11404358

[fierce star]

hahahahaha

[bleak hazel]

Jumping Spider Strike does produce pretty big feats of demolition

new assassination target: the airship on the horizon

[prisma sun]

Doing Some Luffy Shit To Your Boat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yxdch8zvhI

When the Lunar, Alch, and Sidereal join forces

[spring lynx]

if a lunar, a sid, and an alch are in the same place and not killing each other, is it already too late?

[prisma sun]

"We're the B Team"

[bleak hazel]

the new starmetal warstrider even has "cut this thing in half right this instant" although it would sadly not work on artifact boat

only non-magical objects

[prisma sun]

An upgrade to the Sid swapsies power where you could swap with an object instead

Sounds simple yet would be gamebreaking I think

[bleak hazel]

it doesn't have the incredible range of Three-Body Trilemma, but the new warstrider has similar stuff going on

this is the free one you get for attuning

the reflexive area swap is some shenangians

[tulip folio]

'Hey GM, is it daytime?'
'Yeah, why?'
'I swap with the daystar'

[prisma sun]

I feel like it being on a Warstrider is a nerf

The willpower version does seem like it could be chicanerous

[bleak hazel]

it is, unless you go for the one man warstrider build with an Alch or Sid

alchs possibly better at doing this early, since they don't need to wait for E4 to learn all the warstrider powers and they don't need to be in an MA form to use this, which feels like it would have many non-combat uses if you just had it on call

[tulip folio]

5m for non-combat swapping of things (Including yourself) seems pretty damn nice.

[prisma sun]

https://tenor.com/view/todo-jujutsu-kaisen-jjk-clap-boogie-woogie-gif-9937493349944439903

I just wanna do Boogie Woogie in Exalted is that so wrong

[tulip folio]

Too bad, Vaidurya instead does ninja hand signs, going by that charm's fluff. XD

...I wonder if Evocations are a decent place to look to for 'things to convert to eclipse charms', when trying to do god blooded or such.

As they're both set up as 'Charms anyone, regardless of splat, could have'

[prisma sun]

So like

When they say "swap everything"

do they MEAN everything

[tulip folio]

As long as it's freestanding, which is...not much of a limitation.

Like that rules out any building with a foundation but not much else.

[prisma sun]

Damn

Missed that bit

no dropping the ground on people

[light olive]

Thought about oc yozi and her souls. Have worked on turning several of the more whimsical ideas into something more tragic

[tulip folio]

...once someone's established stealth in combat, is there any way to drag them out of it? The core book is not well formatted and I can't find a specific action, just the 'Roll X to oppose them getting it in the first place'

[tulip folio]

I've not dealt much with people constantly dancing in and out of stealth.

[light olive]

Joklua, the Throne of Loss. Has grown a lot more layered and complex.

Also. I think her Soul. Pyramid. Has Wandering Souls instead of Defining Souls.

Might need to ditch the epithet. Found out about loss meme.

[light olive]

Joklua, the Hollow Throne is the temporary replacement

[tulip folio]

Trying to do this artifact airship and running into 'I'm not sure any of the devs entirely knew what stats should be on artifact vehicles'. XD

Most Vehicles: "I dunno, speed 1-5 depending on circumstances?"
Arms of the Chosen: "SPEED FIFTEEN!"

Does any book other than Arms of the Chosen have an Artifact Vehicle statted? As I've got the usual 'don't trust arms of the chosen' in my head 😛

[prisma sun]

Abyssals has an evil chair

Deebs have skycutters

And I think thats about it

[tulip folio]

Okay yeah. It just seems like artifact ships of all sorts go 'I have multiple times the speed of other ships'. XD

Hmm...you think 'Sky Furnace' is a decent name for an Exalted Airship with a Fire theme?

[tulip folio]

Sky Furnace (••••)
Red Jade Cargo Airship
A titanic vessel of red jade plating and adamant struts, Sky Furnace was not built for war. Crafted by Nuradian artificers, she was designed as a mobile factory to help craft links between the nations that had lost their connection to each other. She served in this role for centuries, helping to carve paths and lay down roads of shining metal to bring community back to Autocthon.

Eventually, tragedy struck her. An attack by voidbringer cults damaged her thrusters and shattered her great engine, forcing her to crash far from any support. It was not until decades later that she could once again take to the sky, after she found and refitted by explorers. Her Animating Icon, Blazing Soul, has been left traumatized by this time isolated from others and cannot be easily called upon like she once could.

Still, Nurad hopes that with her wings restored and with a new crew, she will be a symbol of Autothonian unity going forward.

Attunement: 10m
Hearthstone Slots: 2

Speed: Geomantic Engine +8, Empty Cargo Hold +2
Manoeuvrability: +1
Hull: −0/−1x3/−2x3/−4x2/Incap.
Cargo: Sky Furnace can carry up to 200 crew in internal quarters, and has cargo holds capable of carrying a warstrider or several hundred tons.
Era: The Parting Era
Special: Sky Furnace has workshops that would put many craftman's manses to shame. She counts as exceptional equipment for all Crafts, as well as for Sorcerous Workings that would shape, create or repair non-living objects (Such as the sorcerous working to make parts for a First Age Artifact).

Evocations:

Give her some craft-related ones that are not related to Shitting Out Artifacts, as well as some ones for diplomacy. The Capstone one is the only directly attacking one, where you vent the furnace and just nuke the area around the ship.

Vague Ponderings.

This is a big fucking cargo airship, not a warship. Which is why her Manoeuvrability is kinda low for an artifact ship (Which are +2 or +3 in the cases I can find).

I want her to improve Theoplastic Engineering Protocol with one of her evocations. As that's the Autobot 'shape the terrain' charm.

[tulip folio]

My thoughts is to do up 3 of them:

-Explorer Vessel (Your Starship Enterprise)
-Sky Furnace (Your Cargo Airship)
-Air Fighter (Basicly no carrying capacity but incredibly zoomy)

As that's the three types of Autothonian Airships, taken to their extreme.

...I'm really tempted to give the Legally Not The Enterprise an evocation to Clash attacks with [Intelligence + (Lore, Occult or Craft)], as the crew/pilot can Technobabble A Counter.

[tulip folio]

Hmm...there's 'unblockable' and 'undodgable', do you think it's unreasonable for a charm to be able to grant an attack 'Can't be Clashed'? They're much less common than parry or dodge.

[next delta]

I think you might have an issue with how that works when two people have the same initiative?

(which is an edge case granted)

[tulip folio]

That's fair. Maybe 'can't be clashed by reflexive charms'. So if you're the same init it works but it can't hit by like a brawl charm going 'cross coutner time!'

Mostly since I have a very fun idea for a charm name with that mechanic.

Eigenvector Stabilisation

Since alchs have a lot more math to their stuff than other exalts.

This supplements an attack. The attack ignores the effects of Defend Other and cannot be clashed by reflexive effects.

Eigenvectors remain the same if transformed.

[broken apex]

Heirs to the Shogunate has a Blackjade Artifact ship, it's pretty cool

[tulip folio]

...man, I hate to say this about a Solar Charm but Salty Bastard Method is really cool.

Eigenvector Stabilisation
Cost: 5(?)m; Mins: Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Dual
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite: The E1 Evocations when I work them out.
Adamant and Starmetal targeting nodes calculate the vector, then lock it into fate. Nothing will impede this shot.

This supplements an attack or broadside maneuver. An attack supplemented this way ignores the effects of Defend Other and cannot be clashed by reflexive effects. A broadside maneuver supplemented this way deals an additional level of damage.

In both cases, effects that would automatically defeat the supplemented action regardless of roll (Such as a target gaining total cover against the attack, or Ship Breaker Method automatically defeating broadsides but not a target raising their parry high enough that the attack has no chance to hit) cannot affect the supplemented action, which may still roll as normal.

Doesn't really make the attack more dangerous to the target but makes it much more 'Oh, this is Going To Happen'

[fierce star]

Ooh

I like it. 5m feels maybe a tad expensive? Maybe go for 4m.

[bleak hazel]

I read the second paragraph here as making your attack immune to Seven Shadow Evasion, is that meant to happen?

Besides that I think this is a fine effect to have at 4-5m, but it should probably be Simple, following precedent of things like the Sid Brawl cheap unblockable punch, because it stops you coming up with Shenanigans involving layering various types of unfooable.

[tulip folio]

Simple isn't a bad idea, yeah.

[prisma sun]

This would for instance supplement something Charcoal March of Spiders on a Solar

[tulip folio]

...and right, SSE is one of the few Actually Perfect Effects still remaining.

[bleak hazel]

I'd advise against that part purely because I dislike stacking more than two layers of anti-X stuff

"undodgeable even against things that dodge the undodgeable" is a little clumsy

also what does it do to perfect soak effects?

[tulip folio]

Yeah, honestly I might limit that part to just the broadside part.

As it was primarily to deal with Ship Breaker Method/Solar Sail having like 5 variations of 'If you do X, I autowin'

[bleak hazel]

Sensible

I genuinely couldn't tell you how Solar Sail works because even the writers do not care

No subsequent splat has much if anything for naval combat charms

[tulip folio]

It's basicly split between 'cool charms about being a pirate that have very little to do with naval combat' and 'rock paper scissors where you get to kick the GM in the junk if he guesses wrong'.

[bleak hazel]

Yeah, the pirate stuff is neat, as is "my boat is holy sun ground now"

[tulip folio]

Like it's the only charmset I've seen that actively says 'hide this information from the GM'

[bleak hazel]

It's a bit like Craft and War in that it's just an incredibly long list of every effect the writers could come up with for the ability minigame

[tulip folio]

I also don't know how the fuck this works at a physical table.

'Hey, the player with Hull-Breaker Method wrote something on a piece of paper when he declared a ram. I'm supposed to pretend he's not using the charm that makes him autowin if I try to barrage'

[bleak hazel]

I have no idea how most of it works and am completely useless at offering balance advice about the sail system, so I'm just going to ignore those bits

[tulip folio]

It tries to deceive the GM by making you do a physical action the GM will see.

[bleak hazel]

Oh yeah that part I understand and is silly

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's fair. I'm making these charms have a little sail stuff as it's for a very small airship that can turn into a warstrider. XD

[mighty rover]

it's foolproof

[tulip folio]

(Yes, I do like Macross a lot)

[bleak hazel]

"maybe she just decided to use Battle-Visionary's Foresight in case there's an army around the next headland"

[tulip folio]

I genuinely like the 'yarr harr, I'm a pirate' charms though.

The intent will be that the initial entry charm for it is 'Turn Into The Warstrider'. So you need to unlock the second form/you don't get two artifacts for the price of one but it lets you have a warstrider that can fly about outside of combat/do strafing runs if you end up in naval combat.

As basicly: With how silo'd off naval combat is, I don't want any of these ships to only matter in naval combat.

So the Furnace will provide some craft-themed support stuff, the Explorer will provide some sensory and analysis themed boosts and the actually dedicated combat airship is Also A Warstrider.

If that remotely makes sense?

[fierce star]

makes sense to me

[tulip folio]

Autocthon's Hammer
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 4
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Theoplastic Engineering Protocol

When using Theoplastic Engineering Protocol as an extended action from within the Sky Furnace, you may shape the land out to (Essence x5) miles from the Sky Furnace. When shaping the environment this way, the interval is reduced by one degree (Weeks to Days, Months to Weeks etc). 

Once per story, you also gain access to the following additional options when using the charm:

-You can use Theoplastic Engineering Protocol to alter an existing terrain feature into a Demesne of a type that matches the local elemental affinity of the region (Such as Fire in the South or Abyssal within a Shadowland). This has a goal number of 20 for two-dot demesnes and 30 for four-dot demesnes.

-You can adjust the elemental affinity of the affected area. This has a Goal Number of 20 if you are shaping an area without a Demesne, 30 if you are shaping an area with a two-dot demesnes or 40 if you are shaping an area with a four-dot demesnes. After this goal is completed, the local area will take on aspects of its new elemental affinity over time (A desert aligned with Water will remain a desert but will find itself with more oases or becoming a colder desert instead of a hot one, depending on the weilder's intent).

And one for the Sky Furnace. You do the Big Civil Engineering Work.

[fierce star]

INFRASTRUCTURE

[tulip folio]

Supercharging Theoplastic Engineering Protocol

It can fight (And the capstone will be a very big army-clearer) but the intent is that the Sky Furnace is basicly the biggest mobile forge you've ever seen, designed for making things much bigger than a person would. XD

The capstone will be basically 'huge aoe environmental hit' as the thing just dumps the entire contents of the furnace beneath it.

[bleak hazel]

I'm more surprised that you're bothering to write them unique Sail Combat rules at all, honestly

that is a really big upgrade for that charm, you can make a four-dot demesne anywhere in about three days

are you meant to park this thing in a place and then establish, say, a 40-mile-deep web of trenchworks and berms in a day or two, or is it more "you can shape the same-sized things you normally can, but now at range"

[tulip folio]

It's designed more for letting you do things like putting up a castle in a couple of days or moving an elemental pole.

As an aside; That second one is already a listed usage of the charm, this just expands the range it can do it in.

...I'm also realizing I forgot the 'Once per story' I was supposed to have on those two extra modes. XD

Which was kinda supposed to be the big limiter.

rememebered to add it back

[bleak hazel]

I think you might have gone for a slightly wide radius for that

[tulip folio]

That's fair. I might knock it down a bit.

[bleak hazel]

for reference: 20 mile radius circle

I don't think you want to give your boys the ability to level greater london with one charm

[tulip folio]

That's fair. That would take away from the capstone evocation, which is designed to level a city with one charm. 😛

(I'm mostly joking)

[bleak hazel]

this is E4, so I would suggest using the [essence] miles radius thing that standardises most huge radius effects

[tulip folio]

Ah, I divided it up a hair between 'how big a thing can you make/alter' and 'how far can you move them.'

[tulip folio]

Autocthon's Hammer
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 4
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Theoplastic Engineering Protocol

When using Theoplastic Engineering Protocol from within the Sky Furnace, you create or alter a feature that spans up to (Essence) Range Bands instantly.

When using Theoplastic Engineering Protocol as an extended action the interval is reduced by one degree (Weeks to Days, Months to Weeks etc). The distance that terrain features can be moved with a usage of this charm is increased to (Essence x5) miles.

Once per story, you also gain access to one the following benefits:

-The Sky Furnace can cause a self-perpetuating geomantic reaction. This allows the construction of a Manse, building or usage of Theoplastic Engineering Protocol to continue even without the wielder's direct oversight, allowing her to do other things while it completes, though she rolls as normal.
-You can adjust the elemental affinity of the affected area with the usage of Theoplastic Engineering Protocol. This has a Goal Number of 20 if you are shaping an area without a Demesne, 30 if you are shaping an area with a two-dot demesnes or 40 if you are shaping an area with a four-dot demesnes. After this goal is completed, the local area will take on aspects of its new elemental affinity over time (A desert aligned with Water will remain a desert but will find itself with more oases or becoming a colder desert instead of a hot one, depending on the wielder's intent).

Alright, adjusted. The distance stuff can be moved is still big but you don't get 'Hey, what if I wipe Out London?' but does let you Play Funny Buggers with 'Hey, I moved your house'.

No more 'make a demese'

But you do get 'fuck it, I don't want to sit here for 6 months making a manse/building a castle. I'll Set It Up and keep moving'

[bleak hazel]

yeah, this seems much more reasonable

big fan of engineering ships

does it have a huge molten steel crucible that it can carry around and pour white hot liquid magic out of?

[tulip folio]

That's the capstone/the one major combat charm.

[bleak hazel]

nice

[tulip folio]

It's going to be very inspired by Divergence Overdrive: Thorns of the Heavenly Tree.

[bleak hazel]

given the play-by-post that Rival's an Ally 5 in is happening I should really draft his daiklaive

[tulip folio]

In the 'big AOE hit, area is now difficult terrain and I left an environmental hazard for a turn'

[bleak hazel]

I'm stealing the form-shift from the moonsilver silken armour and adjusting to taste, and I know one or two other things I want it to do

not sure about the attunement bonus

possibly "parries with this ignore one point of onslaught penalty" but maybe that's too much for a passive

[tulip folio]

Handy

Sky Furnace (••••)
Red Jade Cargo Airship
A titanic vessel of red jade plating and adamant struts, Sky Furnace was not built for war. Crafted by Nuradian artificers, she was designed as a mobile factory to help craft links between the nations that had lost their connection to each other. She served in this role for centuries, helping to carve paths and lay down roads of shining metal to bring community back to Autocthon.

Eventually, tragedy struck her. An attack by voidbringer cults damaged her thrusters and shattered her great engine, forcing her to crash far from any support. It was not until decades later that she could once again take to the sky, after she found and refitted by explorers. Her Animating Icon, Blazing Soul, has been left traumatized by this time isolated from others and cannot be easily called upon like she once could.

Still, Nurad hopes that with her wings restored and with a new crew, she will be a symbol of Autothonian unity going forward.

Attunement: 10m
Hearthstone Slots: 2

Speed: Geomantic Engine +8, Empty Cargo Hold +2
Manoeuvrability: +1
Hull: −0/−1x3/−2x3/−4x2/Incap.
Cargo: Sky Furnace can carry up to 200 crew in internal quarters, and has cargo holds capable of carrying a warstrider, colossus or several hundred tons.
Era: The Parting Era
Special: Sky Furnace has workshops that would put many craftman's manses to shame. She counts as exceptional equipment for all Crafts, as well as for Sorcerous Workings that would shape, create or repair non-living objects (Such as the sorcerous working to make parts for a First Age Artifact).

Evocations:

Give her some craft-related ones that are not related to Shitting Out Artifacts, as well as some ones for diplomacy. The Capstone one is the only directly attacking one, where you vent the furnace and just nuke the area around the ship.

The overview of the thing itself. It's not a super fast artifact ship (But still very fast by the standards of non-artifact ships) but you've also got ungodly carrying capacity.

The image I'm working on is basicly a Dune Carryall.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dune/images/8/85/Carryall_with_tethered_spice_harvester_(Dune%2C_1984).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190227211701

The special is hopefully useful/interesting. It's basicly there to let player characters keep up their crafting/projects while still Doing Adventures.

If that makes sense?

[bleak hazel]

yeah, very handy

do you intend this thing to ever leave Autocthonia?

in a Locust ~~Crusade ~~ Star Trek game I could see having something to make FAA less awful being handy as an evocation, but I suppose you can just go home to your metropolis

[tulip folio]

FAA? What's that abbreviation? I am blanking on it.

[tulip folio]

It's 100% designed to be a Viable Home Base if you ever do Locust Adventures. XD

[bleak hazel]

first age artifice

[tulip folio]

Ah, yeah. Makes sense. I'll have to ponder something there.

[bleak hazel]

I'm wondering if I want to try to make the requirements less harsh in my advised craft houserules

might just remove the XP cost on the sorcerous workings, because the other major limit is the white point cost and changing that messes with other stuff

so Sids/Lunars may have to accept they're not getting 50 white points together

[winged swallow]

i would not remove xp costs on workings tbqh

[bleak hazel]

the ones that go into FAA are literally "working as exotic component" so their net effect is just "fuck you, making gunzosha costs a whole charm's worth of XP"

[winged swallow]

part of a working’s deal is its permanence, which is sealed with the xp used on it. it can’t be undone, just like.. vaguely mitigated

[bleak hazel]

I would agree with you for normal sorcerous workings

these are not normal sorcerous workings

[winged swallow]

hm

fairrrr enough i suppose

can’t really argue there then

[tulip folio]

I think part of my grumpiness there is that first age artifice isn't any better than other artifacts.

A first age 5 dot and a non-first age 5 dot are the same value.

But the former requires extra hoops if you want to add a bit of Sci-Fi Vibe to it

If that makes sense?

[winged swallow]

i think generally FAA has less limits on what you can make it do

gunzosha, for example, can be attuned by mortals (at a cost mind you, but that’s still not something regular artifice can do)

or like

[tulip folio]

I like Beamklaives ;-;

[bleak hazel]

"hey Lunar, want to repair that ruined 5-dot warstrider? that'll be at least 8xp and about a year"

[winged swallow]

hot take, i like it when shit takes big time

[bleak hazel]

oh the year is sensible, the 27xp cost just for Craft (FAA) and the workings required is not

probably more

also like 40-50 white points, so you better have made at least ten daiklaives

[tulip folio]

It is amusing that the autobot book just went 'Fuck it, ignore all those rules. You can just Do This in a metropolis'

...actually...heheheheheh.

[bleak hazel]

beamklaives and gyro-chakrams are notable upgrades on normal artifacts, and warstriders are fun

the rest of FAA is meh

[tulip folio]

So I have a pondering on that evocation. Mostly since - this airship is itself FAA.

An evocation that A) Lets the Sky Furnace count as a metropolis for that purpose B) Multiplies the speed you can repair the ship or warstriders docked within it by a good bit.

So even if you're not doing a lot of FAA crafting it lets you repair the ship/warstriders fast.

Okay so I've got 3 charms noted down for this:

Essence ???: Let it count as a metropolis for crafting/speed up repairs within it.
Essence 3: Bring Burning Soul back online. She's a quick character on par with a second circle machine spirit. Since the ship *is* her body, she can pilot it even if there are no other crew on board. She's not a dedicated asskicker combat character, more general support.
Essence 4: You do the terraforming good.

...I might give it a version of the Sid 'I can pull any mundane object out of my quiver'.

A situation where the ship just fabricates a mundane object.

Don't bother with the full crafting rules. If it's small and mundane, just roll for it.

[winged swallow]

i mean, don’t most splats get a craft/wits charm that does that at e1?

just whip out a mundane thingamajig

i figure a forgeship could probably do more with that

[tulip folio]

Do they? I know of Strange Quiver Trick for Sids but I know Alchs don't have one and I don't recall one for Solars?

[bleak hazel]

Solars only have one for Artifacts, buried a long way deep in useless slot charms

would be amazing supernal fodder if it wasn't, since it lets you just whip out a 3-dot with Essence 5

Abyssals have a selection

[winged swallow]

solar craft moment

[bleak hazel]

the first one is Ceaseless Wicked Toil, which I really quite like

holding out cursed object I just produced from nowhere
sword? anyone for a sword?

oh go on

I would not give your ship a whole second circle demon, I think you could meaningfully get "AI pilot" at E2 without needing to nest a whole extra statblock

just a dice pool for piloting

but "warstrider repair bay" is neat

someday I would kind of like to run maybe a 2-3 story short game about playing Lookshyan warstrider pilots and maybe the sorceror-engineer if someone wants to be Misato

[winged swallow]

[bleak hazel]

I know I'm one to say this, as someone who has never watched a mecha anime, but I'm sure I can figure out the basics and append copious operational maps derived from me having severe Boat Hyperfixation when I was slightly younger

[tulip folio]

Oh, that's nice. Kinda funny that Abyssals have it but solars don't. Then again: One of these charmsets has the benefit of hindsight.

[bleak hazel]

I should really actually watch Evangelion at some point

[winged swallow]

the fact you haven’t is surprising

[tulip folio]

That's fair. I might still got with a bit of statblock but not a full one. Just like 'Here are her intimacies, here are a few dicepools related to her functions'.

[bleak hazel]

I hadn't watched a single anime besides Spirited Away and a few Pokemon episodes until like, last year

when my friend Pyrope started adding them to the movie night schedule

so my mental picture of "mecha anime pacing" is basically determined by old war movies about fighter pilots more than anything else

[bleak hazel]

really the whole cursed object tree should branch off that rather than the craft XP charms, to reduce tax

but other than that it's a really neat charmset

oh, there's a bullet point for Misc Does Solar Craft: make sure anything for craft points is siloed off into its own subtree so that you can buy more craft juice income when you need it

different games are very differently paced there so I could see people having very different requirements for baseline CXP

a skeleton for that is steadily coming together in my head

current plan is to have the "power" tree as basically the spine, with clearly signposted places to stop in order to craft X kind of thing

and then most of the fun things charms branch off parts of that

[tulip folio]

Oh, I know what I'll do also for the AI coming online.

Her assistance reduces the penalty for insuffient or ill trained crew by <Essence>.

So if she's here you can mostly pilot without a crew becasue well...she is the ship.

[bleak hazel]

once you hit legendary crafting capability there's a "gate" charm, which instead of letting you convert gold->white lets you pay a small number of craft points to do legendary projects with gold, and then it fans out into a flower of things-to-do-with-white-points

which lets me price legendary solar craft nonsense better than the core system

where any WXP cost is basically irrelevant because you're drowning in silver/gold and can convert up at your leisure

I want "build my giant N/A citadel manse" to be different to "I forge a thousand spears that give my personal guard the strength of ten men", etc.

I may steal something like Iki's landscaping charm too

Legendary Project: Fuck That Mountain In Particular seems like solid Solar space

[tulip folio]

I do find it eternally funny that one of the listed uses for the base alchemical charm is 'What if we took one of Autocthon's organs and just...pushed it over there'

[bleak hazel]

I'm also considering an option that slightly nudges into Bureaucracy, which is "I appoint a foreman for a big project employing lots of labour, they can coordinate work on my projects as if they were me, knowing what design decisions I would make in any given situation"

not quite Implicit Construction Methodology, but something to let you design a manse and then fuck off while it builds

or dig a great canal across a nation from both ends, coordinating by sheer force of magical bullshit

really my defining theme for Solar Craft as opposed to everyone else's craft is "this is for the really stupidly huge stuff"

a low essence solar crafter is a really good smith, a high essence solar crafter is a strategic asset

[tulip folio]

Dwarf Fortress Megaproject Method

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah, project coordination method should also come with the Factorio "something is chewing on your buildings" alarm

[winged swallow]

jimbus crimbus

[bleak hazel]

tells you if there's been an unexpected work stoppage and what from

I'm mostly just trying to come up with things to do besides wargear, boats and buildings, but I think it's going to be more feasible to be a legendary architect than a legendary painter

you can only do so many Painted Worlds of Ariandel

[tulip folio]

I'd likely limit it to a broad overview of what caused it to stop. Like 'no material' or 'workers dead', not quite like 'Fae invasion led by bob the asshole killed the workers'.

Enough to let you know to go there and investigate

[bleak hazel]

yeah, like I said it's the alarm

BWAAH BWAAH - red flashing exclamation mark on minimap

if you want to actually stop your workers striking you need to go use Glorious Solar Pinkertons

[tulip folio]

...I have a pondering but I'm wondering if it's too mean.

A 'you can use the ship sensors to spot things' charm that gives a bonus if you're detecting anything made of the five magical materials.

As it's designed for finding veins of material

But it also makes it very good at finding people carrying artifacts

Burning Soul Awakened
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 2
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Whatever I make the E1 one. Not sure yet. I kinda want the repair bay there but I worry about that being too soon for 'can easily repair FAA' despite that being mostly a non-factor in an alchemical game.

Through careful repairs and psychological rehabilitation the Animating Icon of Sky Furnace, Burning Soul has been reawakened. She can manifest on or within the ship as a figure of light, though she does not have a physical body outside of the ship itself.

Burning Soul can pilot Sky Furnace as easily as breathing and control the various systems within its halls and workshops. She can perceive everywhere aboard the vehicle, unimpeded by its walls or other obstructions, as well as see through the ship's sensors. She must still make rolls as usual to focus on details.

Burning Soul has the following Statistics:

Intimacies

Appearance, Resolve, Guile, Willpower
Piloting Dice Pool, Notice Dice Pool, Social Dice Pool, Craft Dice Pool
A small essence pool that can only be used for the evocations of the ship she's part of.

Alright, my pondering. She's still a bit of a quick character but not a full one as she's just an AI. You can social at her but she can't hit you unless she lands the ship on you.

[bleak hazel]

yeah, I like this

also does she breathe

because you'd think that would be quite hard, for a robit

[tulip folio]

Hahahah. You know what I mean. XD

[bleak hazel]

the amount of stuff you attach to the FAA clause of the Repair Bay does depend on how you expect Craft to work

if you put full "this uses Autocthonian Artifice" in there then the ship is automatically the most valuable thing in the Direction

but there are grades of this

[tulip folio]

Yeah. The intent is that this is an Autocthonian ship for autochonian games. Which makes it tricky, as that's also where 'You can make FAA' matters the least as you can do that already in any major city. XD

[fierce star]

Hmm. Is 'It's not Heretical if I do it' better suited as an integrity specialization or a principle

[bleak hazel]

principle

[fierce star]

yeah, thatw as my thought. I need an integrity specialization on this character that isn't too broad, which feels... difficult to manage with integrity. (House Cynis scion who was a problem child, even for house cynis, so they sent her to the cloister of wisdom to get catholic school'd. She's now a better person! She also firmly believes she is the second coming of Sextes Jylis and that she can Save The World with proper application of religious philosophy and her own natural skills as a prince of the earth. Deeb Integrity is a little short but it has some neat stuff in it.)

anyway, sorry for the interruption, carry on with playing factorio fortress in exalted

[raw owl]

I do really like this as a theme for Solar Craft

Seems like it would be a lot of fun

[tulip folio]

<Insert Name Here When I think of one>
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Red Jade Arrays heat and reform materials, allowing even the most heavy of damage to be repaired.

The Sky Furnace allows for repair projects and continuation of ongoing craft projects (Though not starting new craft) of Autocthonian artifice abord it as if the repairer had access to an Autocthonian Metropolis. When repairing a ship (Including the Sky Furnance itself) or a Warstrider docked with the Sky Furnace, each project restores two levels of damage instead of one.

Vague Pondering.

Doubles the repair speed and halves the cost in craft exp for 'Fixing my shit after a battle'

[bleak hazel]

I like that, splitting the difference on FAA like that is clever and strikes about the right balance

I'm still deciding whether I want to really lower FAA costs in my craft houserules

at least in white points

the sorcerous working XP is vanishing, or at least being adjusted so that a Sidereal or Lunar isn't paying eight times the XP of a Solar because they can't roll 200 sux in one go and thus have to do more workings

[tulip folio]

Annihilation Protocol: Furnace Core Vent
Cost: 15m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 5
Type: Simple
Keywords: Decisive-only, Resonant
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: All The Other Shit
Crew run to blast chambers as the safeties on the Furnace are disabled and civilization is washed away in a flood of molten metal.

Resonant: Only characters resonant with Red Jade can awaken this Evocation. 

The Sky Furnace's pilot makes a special (Intelligence + [Archery, Craft or Sail]) unblockable decisive attack that deals Lethal Damage against everything within medium range, dividing her Initiative equally between all non-trivial targets and adding (Essence) automatic successes to each damage roll. All non-magical terrain within the radius is utterly annihilated. 

The destruction of the ground causes this area to become difficult terrain. Until the end of the pilot’s next turn, anyone else attempting to move through this area is exposed to a difficulty 5, Damage 5L hazard from the settling waves of molten metal.  

Special: If the attuned character is not within the Sky Furnace but there is room for the Airship to strafe the area, they may instead affect everything within medium range of a point of their choice within Long Range of the attuned character.

Reset: Once per story.

The special makes this still useful if you're personally piloting the ship but just have it doing Air Support. Not sure if wording there could be cleaner.

[winged swallow]

needs da aggravated keyword, oomf

[bleak hazel]

that do be Divergence Overdrive

[fierce star]

you know, why is Aggravated a specific keyword?

Lethal and Bashing aren't

[bleak hazel]

except with less complications attached and free agg

[tulip folio]

It very much do be. It's sorta hard to outdo it for 'Hey, just fucking Nuke The Area'

[prisma sun]

The default assumption is something deals lethal or bashing based on weapon typeb

[tulip folio]

You do lose the shuffle people about.

[bleak hazel]

I would probably accept that in exchange for the strafing mode, but I don't think this is agg damage, this is just normal hot stuff

[tulip folio]

That's fair. I'll scrap the aggravated

makes it Lethal

[bleak hazel]

it is definitely Lethal

[fierce star]

Isn't fire aggravated damage? Unless it's firewand fire.

[bleak hazel]

if being able to use this without deploying a warstrider is a bit much you can always nudge up the cost

[fierce star]

it's lethal

I know too many systems

[bleak hazel]

exalts are not vampires, luckily

even Abyssals, despite the fangs

[tulip folio]

Except the exalts who are...yes 😛

[fierce star]

being fair fire does agg to werewolves too. And I think mages, sometimes, depending on edition.

there are too many systems, i'm going to run exalted in lancer

[prisma sun]

Fire does agg to everyone if its hot enough

[bleak hazel]

agg in Exalted is kind of odd anyway

and not frequently mega relevant

[tulip folio]

But yeah, I kinda wanted the capstone to be like the one 'this does combat' charm. The rest of it is repairs and support and a little social stuff I've not finished writing yet.

[bleak hazel]

with the one exception of the frequent disagreement between some players, who think anything that doesn't specifically heal agg can't, and other players, who think anything that doesn't specify it only heals lethal or bashing can heal agg

[tulip folio]

And then the capstone is 'Dump the contents of a skyscraper sized forge on them'

Aggravated mostly just exists to Make Lunars Sad 😛

[bleak hazel]

the disagreement is entirely caused by the core being natural language

I think this is rules text, other people think it is clearly not because some magic does heal agg

[tulip folio]

That reads like rules text to me, just a case of 'specific overrides general'

With some charms healing aggravated

[fierce star]

yeah, agreed

[tulip folio]

WoD Werewolves: "...I think we technically heal aggravated better than Exalted Lunars. We've got Gaia’s Breath."

[bleak hazel]

there is a suggested lunar charm concept in MFS that lets them heal other people's agg damage, so it's not out of the realm of stuff the writers think they could do

but it is out of the range of their current charmset

(also if they did have that it would make agg a button that basically reads "targets wounded by this cannot use Halting The Scarlet Flow" and not a lot else)

[tulip folio]

Aggravated in general feels a bit...vestigial.

Like it exists because white wolf games always have aggravated.

Not because it fills a Notable and Specific Role beyond 'making players sad' and 'causing timeskips'

Bashing technically has more under its belt but is also a bit vestigial with how the game assumes that people will be stunting to do whatever damage type they want instead of the weapon's listed type. XD

[bleak hazel]

I like the idea of Aggravated Damage as "super mean injuries that leave cool scars and force people to stay down for weeks", since I'm more or less OK with "players go home and lick their wounds" if required

but it doesn't do a great deal

[prisma sun]

Yeah it seems mainly to slow the pace down of a story than really kill people more than lethal

[bleak hazel]

it works on Lunars, because Lunars, and it surprisingly does work on Sids, because the Sid duct tape charm is very good and accessible so I would expect more Sid parties to have Mending Warped Designs than Solar parties having Wound-Mending Care Technique

[tulip folio]

It works really well on Alchemicals

As 'go to the vats' is normally a lot quicker than healing.

But aggravated puts a kibosh on that

[bleak hazel]

go to vats, go directly to vats, do not pass Ku, do not collect 200 glots

[wise ocean]

vats 20000 years

[prisma sun]

Slows down most solars

[tulip folio]

Also: Christ, I made the mistake of going 'I wonder how high essence a Universal Translator charm would be for that explorer ship' and ran into Solar Linguistics.

They have like 5 charms for 'dealing with language barriers' and none of them work well.

[bleak hazel]

(unusually broke) Sodaltposting

In about thirty years they'll have enough to awaken an entire alchemical

[tulip folio]

They have a 5m, 1 WP E2 'I can speak to anyone regardless of language barrier' but it also makes spirits and fae automatically attack you if you use it and it's also expressly one way communication. At E1 they have '1m per sentence spoken' language understanding. So a Solar could easily run out of motes at dinner trying to understand people. XD

[bleak hazel]

I'm not sure how it compares to Sid Linguistics, but I think here it ran into the twin problems of "the writers want language barriers to be meaningful" and "PCs and GMs do not want language barriers to be meaningful"

I know Sids have some stuff for this

[tulip folio]

I also think there is likely some amount of 'we need more charms, linguistics is hard to make charms for'. XD

Also: Fuck you devs. If you expressly ask the question in your own book and assume players will care about the answer, give the answer.

[raw owl]

I think "universal translator" is a charm that I would straight up not want to exist if I was designing a game where I wanted Linguistics and language differences to mean enough to theoretically hang an entire story on

And that may or may not be a compelling or realistic design goal, but I somewhat get the impulse

It's the Ranger Problem again, y'know

[tulip folio]

There we go. Excellent Emissary’s Tongue. E3, 2 prereq charms and 6 motes per language to get 'Oh yeah, I can speak that'.

And even then you're at -3 to all rolls in the language.

Solars have a hard-ass time doing stuff in languages they don't already know.

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's fair. It's just on the brain as the inspiration for the three airships I'm working on are 'Flying Factory/Dune Carryall, Macross Valkyrie and the Enterprise'. XD

[prisma sun]

To be fair, the Solar charmlist is definitely "If you spec into this skill, you bypass ever having to care about it"

[raw owl]

A frustrating problem that smarter people than I have banged their heads against lol

[tulip folio]

Vague Pondering of getting the vibe of the enterprise sorta thing in that while it can fight its more about cleverness: Sorcery and Exploration focused ship.

[prisma sun]

Cabin Shaking Harmlessly: Instead of taking any meaningful damage, characters may make the ship shake violently and throw them to the ground

[bleak hazel]

meanwhile, siddies

Lunars also have no truck with this

[raw owl]

If I was doing the Enterprise, I honestly might go all-in on some sort of like. Wyld-Shaping Technique-alike

Strange new worlds and all

Idk tho

[bleak hazel]

the Sid one also has restrictions (expensive, works only on one target, requires a ceremony, etc.) but I think they're generally less annoying than going three charms deep just for languages and not getting perfect interpretability

although if you just want to translate you can get that with one charm, in Mingled Tongue Technique

[tulip folio]

...actually the wyld idea gives a pondering.

Alchs have an upgrade to protect an area around them from the wyld/shaping effects.

Upgrade Evocation to extend it to the entire ship.

[prisma sun]

I feel like Upgrade Evocations should be for a particular user and not part of a generalized artifact list

[bleak hazel]

the usual standard for that is "evos that upgrade splat charms go on their own side tree where they don't interfere with other exalts getting the non-splatlocked stuff"

not always held to, I think a couple of the Sid ones don't, but it's a general theme

[tulip folio]

Yeah that's my thoughts. Don't lock people out of other stuff but can have some splat specific upgrades.

But for now - sleep

[lunar magnet]

https://tenor.com/view/rouxls-rouxls-kaard-laser-laser-pointer-deltarune-gif-16982511365724751222

[prisma sun]

Roulx is a sidreal

[tulip folio]

Some poor Alchemical arriving in creation has almost certainly attempted to use this on a Lunar.

...ironically, I think it would allow an Alch to dodge one of the Lunar Social Defences.

'You can't social me, I have Animal Brain right now'
'Good news: I am very good at socialing animal brain!'

Activate Warkaster Chambers
Cost: 8m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: Scene
Prerequisite Charms: Terrestrial Sorcery
Energy crackles and endless mathematical runes flow across the barrels of the ship, crew drawing from its powerful geomantic core to fuel a torrent of magecraft.

The Boundless Discovery gains the following benefits:
-Spells cast from within the Boundless Discovery extend their range by one band.
-Spells and Energy-Based Attacks suffer a -2 penalty to hit the Boundless Discovery or those aboard her.

Special: If the attuned character is not within the Boundless Discovery but the ship is within range to support, this charm may still be used. If so, it only affects them and ends if they move, including involuntarily.

Vague Pondering For Exploration/Magecraft Ship. The 'not on ship' version stops if you move to stop hit and run being too good.

[light olive]

The Self Effacing Mirror, Fetich of the Encroaching Absence, is both a mirror and an image in the mirror.

[limpid badge]

yaaaaay i finally have a fun patter for my dusk

i don't know why i picked it but having bloody hand refer to herself as This sinner is proving very cute

[tulip folio]

Revelation’s Needle seems like a fun artifact, if 100% 'this only really works for alchs'

[winged swallow]

i really want an excuse to use Radiance on someone tbh

[tulip folio]

Radiance is great

Just so fluffy

[winged swallow]

fucking beamexcalibur

[tulip folio]

Mending Broken Nations
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Resonant
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Sky Furnace was not designed for war but instead to help rebuild the links lost within the Parting Era. This nobility of spirit shines through in the world she shapes. 

This supplements a project to craft, repair or maintain a structure, infrastructure or terrain feature (Including through Theoplastic Engineering Protocol or similar effects).

She chooses an emotion to be conveyed through her craftsmanship, and treats the Craft roll used to complete the project as an inspire roll (Exalted, p. 217) to spread that emotion to any character who makes use of the structure or terrain feature if his Resolve is beaten by her successes — a dining hall could inspire camaraderie among those who eat there, or a bastion could inspire courage among those who defend its walls. 

This effect lasts (Essence + Charisma) months from the project’s completion, after which its supernatural potency fades.

Resonant: The pilot gains (Essence) non-Charm dice on the project.

A craft charm that's not about just Making Artifacts!

[bleak hazel]

oh, this is very neat

do you mind if I do a variant on this for Misc's Solar Craft?

it would probably be somewhat smaller, since it would mirror the abyssal thingy that does something similar

[tulip folio]

Hahahah, I actually based it off the DB version of that charm.

Just with the duration extended because making buildings generally takes longer than making sculptures/you tend to make a lot less of them. XD

It's also something that Alchs don't really have a counterpart to, so it felt like a natural grab.

As it does fill an empty area in the alch charmset

[tulip folio]

Oh, the Abyssal one is nice. I knew about the DB one but not the Abyssal one.

[bleak hazel]

not quite as good but very flexible

probably grabbing it on my Abyssal so I can apply it to all my trading posts by building big obelisks and so on

make everyone favourably disposed towards us

[tulip folio]

Makes sense.

the big thing with the Sky Furance is while I want it to be a craft-y ship I don't want it to just be 'Solar Craft: The ship' where it just gives you big bonuses to tossing out artifacts but not much else. Trying to go more in that Sid Craft area of 'you do a cool thing with crafting'.

If that makes sense?

[bleak hazel]

I believe that is the stated goal for all craft artifacts, yeah

especially since the only two capabilities that are outright locked from other splats are legendary projects + white point conversion, so if you let artifacts hand them out you kind of remove the whole point of "Solaroids are the best artisans"

and that is an important setting point

as usual Twilights have the whole old realm on their back with Solar Circle + Legendary Projects

could have just let them out of the Jade Prison but nooo

[tulip folio]

Yeah. Also to be frank: I find futzing about with craft points the least interesting part of what craft would be about. XD

...I should figure out How Much Craft a lunar needs to be able to make regular use of that 'I can use craft points instead of exp for sorcerous workings' even if they're not a dedicated crafter.

[winged swallow]

hahahahahaha

go my freak child

[tulip folio]

Hahahahah, very fun.

I feel a bit bad that my Jadeborn-Blooded Sid went with a full 5 dots of unusual hide for 'Her skin is made of white jade' but eh, sids get fuck all soak by default. XD

[winged swallow]

spend all BP on mutations, surely you will not regret spending all BP on mutations

[bleak hazel]

you'd want to be able to reliably do 3-dots, hang on a minute

Protean Creator Discipline - Craftifacts for 8xp
Wonder-Weaving Art x2 - double 8s
Pattern-Realising Genius - prereq/speed mundane crafting
Silver Crucible Refinement - prereq/non-charm dice on crafting
Manifest Miracle Forging - speed artifact crafting

[velvet raft]

Echolocation is a good one.

[bleak hazel]

6 charms, E3 Int 5, does 3 and 4 dots in 2 months

[velvet raft]

Skip the need for anti-blindness charms as a melee fighter.

[bleak hazel]

will take about 24-36 gold points to finish a 3 dot, 48-60 for a 4 dot

[winged swallow]

do you think it’s in theme for a devil-star hybrid

[bleak hazel]

add Ever-Mutable Prowess for more gold juice

so probably seven charms and doing a lot of mundane crafting

[winged swallow]

also, here’s a question, do you think the divine heritage charm would allow for future purchases of mutations and/or upgrading of pre-existing ones

[bleak hazel]

the main annoyance is the same as Sids - you can only rush artifacts at E3

[winged swallow]

as your essence grows stronger and such

[bleak hazel]

I would say no, you get what you get

an E5 ghost-blood isn't "more of a ghost", they're an E5 Lunar or whatever who is a bit ghosty

[winged swallow]

hm, maybe there will be infernal charms to help me become weirder

[bleak hazel]

there are probably infernal charms to give you a zillion mutations anyway

they're good at that

[winged swallow]

KIMBERY! GRANT ME ACCESS TO THE MUTATIONS CATALOGUE, AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[tulip folio]

That's not too bad, all things considered. Might see if my witch can make Potions or Poisoned Apples or something 😛

[velvet raft]

If you’re playing up the bug angle you could do it as that way flying insects seems almost supernaturally evasive?

Like how flies just know you’re trying to squish them.

I dunno.

[tulip folio]

Infernals 🤝 Mutation Time! 🤝 Lunars

[winged swallow]

maybe some day i’ll munch on the stars too..

[velvet raft]

My DB has unusual hide 4 w/subtle

It’s her telekinetic defense field :D

[fierce star]

Hmm. Golden Janissary + White Reaper on a lunar?

[bleak hazel]

MA charms are bloody expensive on Lunars, I might go for White Reaper + a little bit of Golden Janissary for Rotten Leaf Arrested

but the basics of blending people with a big polearm remain sound

and White Reaper goes great with DBT

[fierce star]

yeah, I'm thinking mostly white reaper just becuase it is really good on lunars. Unfortunately no scythes, since the weapon overlap is spear, but I can deal

[bleak hazel]

spears are much cooler than scythes anyway

[fierce star]

though I may end up not playing a lunar as the GM has pitched mixed-celestials and as of this line we have a strawmaiden janest, two solars and and abyssal with one undecided

yeah spears are really cool but the character's a necromancer so scythes are hashtag aesthetic

[bleak hazel]

not enough characters fight with a vaguely normal spear

pointy stick is the peak of martial capability and you can spin it around like a badass

but no, has to be a big jousting lance or something

[winged swallow]

you know who's got a cool fighting style? Hilde from Soul Calibur

Big banner-spear and a shortsword

[fierce star]

because being hte only lunar in a party of otherwise solaroids is a little... um.

[winged swallow]

eh, it's fine so long as everyone's got their Shtick

i say this having played a casteless lunar in a circle with an eclipse and a dawn

[prisma sun]

As long as people aren't trying to break the game or make you feel like shit

[winged swallow]

yah

[coral wraith]

At bare minimum, shapeshifting is an intensely flexible and versatile thing at your disposal

[bleak hazel]

the main issue with Lunar in an all-Solar party is that the Lunar's deal is being flexible, so the wider the cast of ultra-specialists in the squad the narrower your effective niche becomes

if you're in a party with the Dawn, you are broadly better at everything that isn't combat, but in a big circle being better at everything except combat, stealth, crafting and socializing starts squeezing you out of rather more scenes

[velvet raft]

agonizes over needing a Sid game

[fierce star]

and it's a six player game already so that's every solaroid caste covered assuming everyone else goes solaroid

[winged swallow]

what are the shticks of the other solars in the game

or solaroids, we

[fierce star]

so far we have a strawmaiden janest, so combat/harvest stuff/community things; we have a 'hope-pilled zenith' I dunno what supernal yet, an awareness apocalyptic day, one undecided abyssal, one undecided in general, and then me, who wants to play a lunar. Th eother undecided may be a lunar, in which case I think two lunars is probably okay, I just don't want to be the Only One (TM).