Exalted

[prisma sun]

Like you're trying to make the neverborn reincarnate

[bleak hazel]

they can, I believe you don't necessarily have to go do that and you can keep a high essence campaign regional if you want

but by the time you have four or five Elder Exalts running around as a coordinated party, yeah, you're at "Deathlord Hitsquad" levels of concentrated power

although I would suggest not solving elder-level problems with pure violence by default because that tends to break important chunks of reality

[tulip folio]

Jade's goal list:
-Beat up the Lover Clad In Raiment of Tears.
-Help get the Beureu of Humanity on better footing.
-Parry Saturn's blade. Not for any goal beyond excessive gokubrain.
-Get more holiday time.

In ascending order of impossibility.

[fierce star]

alright, lesse here, charms...

Perfected Style Magic (Thousand wounds Gear: The Circle Screams, Gear-Catches-Gear Defense, Thousand Wounds Gear Form)

TP Appearance (Calculated Composure Submodule), Thousandfold courtesan calculations, Patriotism-Provokign display, Emotive aesthetics of the body electric

TP Intelligence (Machine-Logic Subroutines), Comprehensive Diagnostic Algorithms, Multifunction Hypodermic Apparatus (Metabolic Accelerator), Incomparable Efficiency Upgrade

Omnitool Implant (Comprehensive Surgical System), Mass Assembly Protocol

Strain-Resistance Chassis Modification

TP Dexterity, Accelerated Response System

Essence Irradiation Corona

I've got three MA charms, both medicine charms I qualify for + omnitool with medicine upgrade, 'speed up craft projects' and 'do a bunch of craft projects at once', a damage adders, an onslaught ignorer, and ac ouple basic 'convince peopel easier' charms plus a 'do it just with body language' one.

[wise ocean]

you know, I may have to steal that freeze-frame to show off the martial art idea

[prisma sun]

I'm wondering how to design the 99 Blades

Evocation wise

I think I'm using stormcaller as a base but I'm also gonna be making what is essentially a 5 dot orichalcum sword for a deeb

I think the Intensity mechanic is out

Unless I tie it to Anima Flux

Which is a neat idea

I don't think there's an artifact that buffs Flux is there?

[bleak hazel]

not sure why the link started it right at the end but yeah, it's not too shabby

the bullet time sword dodging is very neat

[bleak hazel]

Heirs has some smashfists that mess with Elemental Aura, but nothing for anima flux itself

[prisma sun]

Also looking at the forum

It's actually funny how like only the Lunars have hardness at all

But yeah

[tulip folio]

Looks fun

Initiation: Exorcist's Bells

Not all who are drawn to necromancy are drawn by darkness within. The strongest tool to fight necromancy is necromancy itself and only a master of souls can act as shepherd to those seeking Lethe. One of the most powerful tools used by these necromancers are the Exorcist's bells; a set of Starmetal and Adamant bells, the original of which are thought to have been crafted for Saturn herself. They are passed from master to student, their clear tones cutting through the spells worked by slavers of the dead. One day, it is hoped, the ringing of these bells will crack the foundries of soulsteel that enslave the underworld.

Shaping Rituals

Charter Marks: Using Lore or an appropriate Craft, the necromancer may craft a charter runestone as a basic project at difficulty 2. Success grants two necromantic motes, which last for the remainder of the story. Within medium range of a runestone, she may reflexively draw three necromantic motes from it, which last for the rest of the scene, destroying the runestone. If completed as a major project at difficulty 4, the runestone endures; motes may be drawn from it in this manner once per scene instead of destroying it. If used for her control spell, this doesn’t count against her once per scene limit.

Soulsteel Shattering Tone: The necromancer is rewarded by the thankful prayers of souls she saves from cruel magic. When the Necromancer uses Countermagic against a spell cast by a hostile character, she gains a number of necromantic motes equal to her successes. These motes do not stack (Being replaced if you use Countermagic again and would generate more motes than you currently have from this) and last until the end of the story.

Astarael's Get: When the necromancer or a character she is fighting alongside destroys a non-trivial hostile Undead character, Soulsteel Construct or uses a Spell or Charm to directly send a non-trivial character to Lethe, she gains Necromantic Motes equal to that character's Essence. An enemy battle group made up of the Undead that loses all Magnitude is treated as having essence equal to the essence of the battle group plus its size for this purpose. She can have a maximum of 20 necromantic motes gained this way and they last until used.

Dyrim's Call (•): Undead hear the ringing of the Speaker in her voice, drawing them towards her. Undead who’ve heard her speak this scene count as having a Minor Tie of fascination or respect toward her, whichever best fits their Intimacies.

Warding Talismans (Merit ••): The Necromancer can walk unworried through the ranks of the dead, for she is warded by the flow of Lethe's waters. She doubles 8s on rolls to resist environmental hazards based on necromancy or deathly energy. Against other deathly effects she adds (Occult) dice on her opposed roll or (Occult/2, Rounded Up), to a targeted static value.

This will not protect against effects that are merely enhanced by the grave (Such as a Deathknight's Soulsteel Daiklaive) but will protect against direct usage of such power (Such as a God-Scourging Wail, or most Psyche and Shaping effects based on necromancy or Deathly Energy).

Remembrancer (Merit ••••): The Necromancer draws on fragments of the past, calling up memories of ancient magic. Once per story, she may cast a necromancy spell she doesn’t know, although she must still meet its prerequisites. Thereafter, she may learn that spell without a mentor or source. The Storyteller may deem some spells do not echo deeply into the past, primarily those newly invented by Second Age Necromancers.

Also Finished This!

[bleak hazel]

single digit Hardness isn't real, it's fine
burns fingers on Anima Flux

[prisma sun]

Funny enough velociraptors have hardness

Ideal deeb mount

[bleak hazel]

I was just flicking through the deeb book and recalled a funny 2e thing - 2e absolutely hated deebs, both in the writing itself and in the rules, but they made so much of the deeb charmset automatically fail against Celestial Exalts that they accidentally made a dirt cheap and totally infallible Celestial Detector for wyld hunts

Revelation-of-Associates-Hunch was the world's most terrible Investigation charm, but it autofailed against Celestials, so you could just hit everyone with the 👁️ until you got the Dota 2 Untargetable noise

sadly I don't think they have that in 3e

[coral wraith]

Incredible

[obtuse heron]

it’s morbidly amusing how the not very subtle racism just writhed in 1 and 2e

3e is monumentally better

3e deebs are good juice

just the dynamic of

• uberpowered solar demigods (which iirc are very mycean coded in 2e please correct if wrong)
• backstabbed and extincted by the Dragonbloods (obv chinese and more broadly eastern empires coded in general)
• when they come back, endlessly hunted by said chinese inspired culture, but are more competent/powerful than them

just weeeeeird ass vibes

[bleak hazel]

The Solars don't really have different regional vibes from anyone else, I wouldn't call it racism, it was mostly just bad writing

The Realm is imperial chinarome and Solars were knock-off Jade Emperors/Qin Shi Huang for a bit

[obtuse heron]

ah i must be drawing from someone else’s summary then. i recall someone telling me solars were greek/mediteranean

not here

elsewhere

that’s mb

[bleak hazel]

Cultures are not really splat specific

Dynasts aside, and there are many other groups of deebs

[obtuse heron]

dang i got the REALLY reductive version i need to read the 8 directions

retroactively perusing that convo to see what exactly they told me

[bleak hazel]

"The Realm" also good for lore

[obtuse heron]

i sadly do not have that one

only the 8 dir

[bleak hazel]

the main problem was that the 2e writers were all convinced that the solar theme was "doing everything effortlessly and better than everyone else" and that the loss of the Solars was the sole driving factor behind the whole declining civilization thing, and as such having literally anyone else do anything or build any heat was intruding on solar thematics

[obtuse heron]

ah, the Specials and Poo People syndrome

[bleak hazel]

It's very funny to look at the compendium of extra content they used to put on the White Wolf blog because it's like 200 solar charms, 300 infernal charms (designated rivals to Solars), one Sid charm (for training other exalts, probably Solars) and two or three Deeb charms, one of which is "when a Solar uses Tiger Warrior Training, use this to let him do it better"

Infernals eventually got so many nonsense charms that they gave Solars a charm to kill every single summon descended from a given entity just to allow them to solo kill the 15 third circle demons that one maxed infernal could causally produce, since the two had to be peers

3e Solars are jank but at least they're not "each solar must be able to solo an entire yozi or they're objectively underpowered" jank

[fierce star]

If solars had any coding based on the first age I'd be like, Aztec/mycean/Lemurian but that's a stretch

[bleak hazel]

Oh yeah, there was also a charm that allowed Solars to learn infernal charms, so in theory you could become a solar, get to high essence, learn all the infernal ascension charm nonsense that turned you into a super unique special Exalt-yozi and then do that

no reason to do that instead of being an actual infernal, but that was roughly the lengths they were going to in order to ensure no option was closed to the golden boys

[velvet raft]

Gotta start as an Abyssal on the way there for maximum stupid

[bleak hazel]

Oh yeah there was actually an Abyssal redemption charm, I had forgotten

[tulip folio]

A lot of splats would devote several pages to existential threats that splat was fighting to keep neutral with. Then casually note a solar would be able to save the day easily and suggest your campaign plot be 'Find a solar to be the hero you need'

[tulip folio]

You know I'm kinda sad that the host of animals in Hundred Devil's Night Parade?

Barely any of them list the dot value for them as familiars.

I'm pretty sure a player character would want a Metagalapan Riding Hawk or Forest Strider

@bleak hazel ...foxes on 179 of Many Faced Strangers seem like 'Better Cats' as far as 'Lunar Combat Forms' are concerned.

[bleak hazel]

Looks like it

Death Foxy, Death Ratty and Death Kitty, the terror of children's novels

[tulip folio]

DB falls and breaks his neck, is found with a cat pawing at his body. Lunars had nothing to do with it but the realm is gunna send some legions regardless over that.

[bleak hazel]

I have also come up with a horrible gremlin combo

Instructive Riposte (Sid melee, counterattack an attack made against anyone) + Wisdom of the Celestial Crane

The timing of those two means you can wait until someone throws a decisive at anyone , even a friend you aren't covering, and then hit them with your init + their init, before they reset

[tulip folio]

Evil

[bleak hazel]

Not sure if the mastery effect works, since it says "the martial artist" needs to defend against the triggering attack to autocrash the enemy before your killshot goes through

I suppose you could weave in Fluttering Cry of Warning for that

[prisma sun]

Isn't there a dodge charm that let's you reflexively defend other?

[bleak hazel]

There is, but it's Evasion and Crane Style has one for its extremely good parry so you probably want that one for this

Wisdom is an incredible capstone for Mastery because it crashes them whether you land the murder swing or not, and it basically never whiffs completely at that point because you can always not declare it if you didn't parry successfully

[fierce star]

So with a character who is not particularly worried about figuring spirits, isn't sneaky and uses parry over dodge, I think air dragon is not the play, so I'm likely to just go thousand wounds gear. Maybe a homebrew style.

[tulip folio]

...do any books have additional mortal statlines? Looking over stuff for 'battle group' purposes.

[prisma sun]

Uhhhh

Don't think so

[tulip folio]

Yeah, I couldn't find any in Night Parade or Adversaries.

[prisma sun]

Pretty sure it's just "small medium and big mortal" with the expectation that you change weapon stats if need be

[tulip folio]

I was surprised we didn't get a 'General Beastman' statline in the Lunars book, with them being listed as 'Hey, lunars often have these and they're Might 1' with me going 'Cool might 1 on...what statline?' XD

[prisma sun]

Well Beastmen are just "Slightly stronger mortals" so it depends on what they are

The Armored Lizard Legion is probably gonna have differernt stats than "Gorbok, Bob, and Po, the three rowdy pig brothers"

[tulip folio]

Sure but it feelslike they could have done up some basic statlines there. Or like, some mortal statlines for Notable Imperial Legion Types in the DB book.

I dunno, feels like an area that's a bit narrow right now.

[prisma sun]

I can see the thought process

If a guy is just a guy with no charms, how do you print more statblocks for them that aren't just fudging the base numbers up and down

[tulip folio]

I mean, we've got the Brides and Exorcists there as an example. Where they get access to Notable Weird Merits that change how they work. XD

Also like: It would be nice to have some number fiddling statlines so as to not have to 'make it up yourself and hope it's balanced' when it comes to NPC statlines. Like a basic 'Heavy Cavalry' mortal (The corebook has a medium cavalry but no other cavalry) for 'I would like some Knights'

[velvet raft]

Many Faced Strangers has a bunch of animal forms which feel very, "this was over/undertuned, here's an alternate version" without quite saying as much

[upper stratus]

2e solars had a thing where their skin got a bronze-ish tan as their essence increased which might be throwing whoever told you off

[bleak hazel]

Skill issue on the solar's part there, I got that at Essence 1 when I took Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, objectively the best spell ever

[upper stratus]

so true

[prisma sun]

so true

[velvet raft]

You know who it's silly good for, actually? Alchemicals. The alchemical sorcery charm has no charm prereqs

It's just "oh you have 3 int? Drop a charm on this and get +Essence to soak forever"

[bleak hazel]

It usually doesn't, besides Int/Occult 3

[velvet raft]

A lot of them require a certain number of occult or mental charms

[bleak hazel]

Only terrestrials need to get warmed up for sorcery as far as I remember

[velvet raft]

Sids need 4 secrets charms, iirc Lunars need 4 mental charms

[bleak hazel]

Huh, you're right

I completely missed that because Solaroids just get to skip it

I guess rival is only going sorcery at E2 because he only has like two occult charms

waiting for Invincible Essence Mantle

[velvet raft]

That's why Red Evening Sky has so many secrets charms

Google spider is a good dip for that

And Unweaving Method can be depending

[tulip folio]

Huh, sids take a while to get into magic

[velvet raft]

Lunars don't have it any better, really

[tulip folio]

Meanwhile RiRi just installed MagicMan.exe

[velvet raft]

Yeah alchs have it real nice

[bleak hazel]

Steadily increasing the amount of XP Rival will require to be feature-complete according to his previous incarnation

Elder speedrun

[velvet raft]

"Has Int 3" is a very low bar

[bleak hazel]

Magicman.exe is one of those programs that complains vociferously if you try to uninstall it, though

[velvet raft]

Oh, Stealth and Larceny are in Secrets, too

[bleak hazel]

Yeah, you can take a brief pitstop for Mega Arcane Fate if you want

personally I prefer Underling Invisibility Practice

[velvet raft]

Occult is one of those "everybody wants this" categories, Stealth has pretty wide applicability, Larceny is amusingly where the anti-Wyld tech is found

Investigation has Google Spider

And the opening Lore charm is a solid pick for virtually anyone

Plus Secrets itself has a bunch of good charms

It's not burdensome to grab sorcery, but

It is 1/3 of your starting charms

If you can't find anything else you like

[bleak hazel]

Google spider + see spirits + mondo shaping/psyche defence is probably what I'd recommend

just as a general four from those trees

[tulip folio]

And yet one most of my sids fail to achieve. XD

[velvet raft]

Red Evening Sky took Unweaving + Google Spider x2 + Soft Presence Practice

[bleak hazel]

It does mean that spending merit dots on the book of three circles at chargen is quite difficult

[velvet raft]

Yep

[bleak hazel]

unless the GM lets you just have an occult tome

which admittedly is hysterical

wouldn't be the strangest thing a Sid has been left

[velvet raft]

Something I find funny is the four-dot artifacts you can get for free with sorcery

[upper stratus]

im layering my UIP with stealth charms im layers deep into being hidden if you defeat one charm you must face the next

[velvet raft]

The one for Lunars is quite nice iirc

[tulip folio]

Wouldn't you also need to be lunar trained too? Which is also pretty hard for sids. XD

[upper stratus]

silver pact hates my lunar resplendent destiny, lunar exalt ways and feathered cloak trick

[velvet raft]

Thought: Anys Syn and Raksi developing a belligerent pals relationship

Unlikely, yes

But possibly very funny

[upper stratus]

wouldn't the lunar that really likes fighting be more likely

the thousand blades one

[bleak hazel]

Sorcerous initiations are pretty fair game for reflavouring IMO

Might even be a sidebar for that somewhere

[upper stratus]

explicitly in the rules, yes

[tulip folio]

(I comment on that despite literally writing 'Book of Three Circles: Necromancy Edition' for my own homebrew initiation. XD)

[velvet raft]

I would see it happening in a "Raksi is to sorcery as Syn is to martial arts" sort of way

But also likelihood is not the question

Those two in particular would be very funny

IMO

[bleak hazel]

I think Anys Syn/Sublime Danger is far more likely

I think their duel is the only explicitly mentioned elder Vs elder fight outside the Usurpation, which is quite fun

[velvet raft]

Syn/Danger seems like something that might already be canon

[bleak hazel]

The two most shonen brained ancient masters ignoring the carefully demarcated stalemate for fight purposes

[velvet raft]

Syn/Raksi seems like something that would be very funny to watch happen in real time

[bleak hazel]

Sublime Danger is just fun, I want to throw her at every party

[velvet raft]

Two crazy old women who hate each other and also get along very well

[bleak hazel]

I feel that if you beat SD up with Crane Style you wouldn't even need the finisher, she'd happily bump "Fight Me Again" up to at least major of her own accord

Going to ballpark Gloam at 350xp + corresponding splat XP and see what kind of elder nonsense I can fit

He might need something more like 400 for the fully fleshed out Exa setup because Prismatic is expensive as hell

a casual 80 sessions

[tulip folio]

Do you think it would be unreasonable for an artifact weapon's charms to be mostly about non-combat stuff? Pondering a sword that's about keeping the promise of its creators that's more 'Integrity Charms' in its evocations than 'stabbing charms'.

(Though I should read through more splats for interesting integrity charms.)

It's for a Sid as Sid Integrity is very 'sacrifice my intimacies to keep going' focused, lighter on the 'leverage my intimacies to keep me going' and it's for a character that's all about keep a promice she made to her now deceased family.

[prisma sun]

Yeah that's fine

I don't think evocations are required to be combat

[tulip folio]

Entertainingly, the intro charm is combat but I'm going to use it for a springboard into mostly non-combat stuff.

The Yun Do Not Kneel
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Lover Clad In Raiment Of Tears could not make the Yun kneel. Nothing will.

If an effect would cause the wielder to become Prone, she can use this charm to instead keep her footing.

If the wielder dies, she always dies standing.

But yeah, I should go through Lunar/DB/Alchemical integrity stuff to see what inspires ideas for evocations.

Solar Integrity would make thematic sense but is also 'fucking solars'

[velvet raft]

Still good for inspiration

[tulip folio]

That's fair.

[prisma sun]

I still haven't had time to work on it

but I'm considering the charm themes for the 99 Blades

and I think it's

1. Embody Ligier's Arrogance
2. Slay An Absurd Amount of Demons Perhaps In The Dozens of Digits
3. Buff Anima Flux
4. Capstone of either Sukuna-possession moment or Third Circle Spell that lets you summon Ligier

big thing I want is a charm that amplifies feats of strength but only for cutting things

to embody "cut a building in half" or what have you

[prisma sun]

Which monster hunter monsters fit best in Exalted do ya think

[fierce star]

All of them

I was in a game once with a Gigginox lunar

[limpid badge]

yeah rathalos is just Real to creation

[prisma sun]

Realthalos even

[limpid badge]

https://tenor.com/view/so-true-choomfie-true-choomfie-so-choomfie-choomfie-gif-26799217

[prisma sun]

Now the real question is what's the Cut off point between real animal and wyld mutant

Does rathalos need a spirit to have gone "nah make that bitch breath fire"

[fierce star]

Things I completely forgot was a merit: Ambidextrous

voy: given fogsharks are not 'natural animals' despite being fully evolved normal creatures in creation, I would rule that they are still real animals, not wyld mutants

[lament owl]

Had the realization today that Horse Names are great for Exalted charecterss

https://www.thesprucepets.com/famous-racehorse-names-5076256

LOOK AT THESE

[mighty rover]

Sure yeah i can believe Foolish Pleasure is a Sidereal

[velvet raft]

Yeah that works

[lament owl]

Some of my favorites include

Assault
Black Caviar
Lost in the Fog
Sunday Silence
Obey Your Master
Hail to Reason
I’ll Have Another
Lava Man
Seeking the Gold
Silver Charm
Thunder Gulch

[fierce star]

Dawn caste Assault and his blood brother/lunar mate Battery

[velvet raft]

Thoughts before I go to sleep: Old Realm is English with an Australian accent, and it's "mate" as in "aight mate"

[lament owl]

this all started becausse I realized Jovial Merryment is Solar Coded

[tulip folio]

I wonder if we'll ever get any Combat Spells that do Withering Damage. The closest we have is Everyone's Favorite Naptime Spell, which is both really powerful and only really halfway there.

[tulip folio]

Hmm...I guess I should change my Sword Sid from Shining Point to VBOS, since Shining Point is Kinda Silly.

[bleak hazel]

It's much less absurd without Mastery, ask your GM if single point is right for you

[tulip folio]

I mean, Sid. I think Mastery is baked in. XD

[bleak hazel]

By default, sure, but I have known one of two groups nerf Single Point and/or Thousand Blades in single splat games by just turning all the mastery off

Some are fine with it as written,too

especially if you're in a mixed group with Solars

[tulip folio]

Pondering if Sid Ride should be favoured for Jade too. On one hand: She's not!mongolian from the North so it seems like Riding is likely not not important but also I'm not sure it's 'I plan to get a tonne of charms for this', as Sid Ride is more about 'Doing weird shit with bridles' than 'Being good at riding' 😛

[bleak hazel]

You can always dip 3 dots at chargen for Yellow Path and then leave it non-favoured

makes it hard to hit the threshold for "I make literally impossible deadlines" if you don't max it out later, but it's a solid charm

[tulip folio]

Fair and I guess it also has the 'make arcane fate less traumatic' charms too

[bleak hazel]

bonus points if you're doing war because later in the war tree you can combo in Yellow Path to appear with an army of horsemen , Gandalf style

Really Gandalf is a very good yellow sid

[tulip folio]

Jade's general 'vibe' is to be As Wuxia Swordmaster As Possible. XD

[bleak hazel]

No wizard hat then

[tulip folio]

She's not even got sorcery (Might get it later but right now not on the cards)

[tulip folio]

...man, I want to do cool intimacy-based charms but they always run into 'okay but what about if someone is just An Asshole using them?'

The classic: 'Defining Intimacy(I do what I want)' etc

Also: Ended up keeping Single Point for a single reason. It can be used with medium armour, unlike VBOS and I'd really like to play a character with non-silk armour for once 😛

[velvet raft]

Which spell is that?

[tulip folio]

Mists, which sets up init draining mist.

But isn't really withering damage

[velvet raft]

Oh that's sick

[tulip folio]

It's a very powerful spell.

Being 7sm also makes it a very easy to cast spell.

[bleak hazel]

Like some other things in core, it's an incredibly underpriced disable

Crashes are now instant victory

[tulip folio]

It's cool conceptually but likely needs a redo. That said: I wonder if a Withering Damage spell would be possible.

[bleak hazel]

I think it would be fine if it just didn't have the instant sleep effect

[tulip folio]

Hell, just make it do Bashing Damage if crashed like other toxins.

You know what bashing does when it fills up your boxes?

Makes you take a nice nap

[tulip folio]

Pondering how many motes a reflexive 'Pick a negative intimacy about the attacker, get (Intimacy + (Essence/2, Rounded Up)) soak against their attack' evocation would be.

[upper stratus]

charm that does something similar as a point of comparison

[tulip folio]

...oh, I just am a sidereal. I guess rather than this evocation I could just get a resistance charm.

'You'll die one day' is a positive intimacy, right? 😛

[bleak hazel]

That penalty is really mean, I'm pretty sure it applies after soak

[upper stratus]

it's very specifically not soak

it just lets you cheat at the whole soak - soak ignoring mechanics thing

[coral wraith]

kinda crazy

[bleak hazel]

The other nuts resistance pick is the +2TN on decisive damage charm

which I can't post now because I'm on a train

Sids can sometimes struggle to get tons of soak but if they do they can be really really hard to chip down

[tulip folio]

Jade does have the advantage over most of them of 'Medium Armour' 😛

She's a real sid heretic, not wearing the Standard Issue Silk Armour.

[bleak hazel]

Rival is in silk for a while but once he gets a few essence levels for ISOB he's probably just going unarmoured

Soak rock + decent stamina + ISOB control keeps soak decent and I want those nice unmarked effects from the resistance charms

4m 1wp to halve the damage from a decisive is pretty huge

[upper stratus]

im not even gonna wear silk armor. still shuts off my funny optimistic security practice and absent self nonsense

[tulip folio]

That's fair. Maybe I should try that for Nephrite. As she's got Unusual Skin 5 + Stamina 5 so it's not like her 'wearing nothing' soak isn't already better than the average sid. XD

[upper stratus]

instead my soak plan is to pop burn life +6 to + 8 natural soak

[tulip folio]

Oh right, burn life increases soak if you're unarmoured.

[upper stratus]

yep. by strength. which then includes its own strength increase

it's still 3m per dot so im not really gonna do more than 1 dot to be real

[bleak hazel]

A quick burn life grab might be worth for Rival actually - I'm already spending turn 1 on Form a lot

[tulip folio]

Still tempting/I may need to re-tinker with Nephrite. As she's got 'can do unarmed with strength', 'can do parry with stamina' and 'can do dodge with app + performance'.

So Burn Life for soak might be a reall good plan with her.

...and I've realized I've misbuilt Nephrite by giving her silk armour.

As her martial art can't use armour. A martial art that I wrote.

[bleak hazel]

Is that not the point of silken armour

[upper stratus]

yea that's what silken armor does

[tulip folio]

Yeah but the martial art has some 'if unarmoured' bonuses.

Not just 'not compatable with armour'

...also: I'm realizing that somehow my 'how miserable a sid is' is directly inverted to 'how tragic their backstory is'.

[upper stratus]

turns out getting yanked out of your old life is less distressing if your old life sucked shit

[tulip folio]

Shining Nephrite was born under odd stars. Among other things, one of her mothers cannot give birth to anything save stonework. The child of a Dragonblooded sorcerer and an Artisan of the Mountain Folk that dwell deep beneath the imperial manse, she was formed for her mothers by Neomah hands under the sign of the Peacock.

Nephreite's early life was difficult, to say the least. Her nature as not-entirely-human made her insulting to the Immaculate Philosophy and one cannot escape it when born on the Blessed Isle. Her dragonblooded mother, Mnemon Meng, helped salve concerns with a mixture of political pressure and quiet implication that the jade-skinned girl had impeccable earth breeding and would one day prove to be a powerful asset for her family.

However, as she grew, her mothers became more and more worried about her. She saw spiders in the corner of her room and strange connections formed before her eyes. Her Mountain Folk mother worried, becoming depressed that her nature might have made her daughter vulnerable to the madness of the Void Seers. Nephrite was often reduced to tears, flinching in fear from spiders that only she could see or running screaming about a death that she thought was coming.

And then, one day, she went weeping for her Dragonblooded mother and found she was a stranger to the woman. Everything broke around her and she lashed out, smashing one of the spiders around her to the ground and into visibility. Her mountain folk mother's eyes widened...these were spiders she knew. Creations of the Great Maker.

By the time the Bureau of Destiny came for her, they found a furious artisan shouting that the Great Geas can allow them to extort *some* creations from her people but her daughter is beyond even that. She would give them a host of artifacts if they would simply renounce their claim on her daughter.

The remorseful monk told her that no matter how much they would like to accept that, they could not. Being chosen by the maidens was her destiny.

Nephrite absolutely loathes Arcane Fate as a concept and would shatter it if she could but is otherwise a pretty content sidereal.

As an aside: This is one of the few times where 'where she's from' didn't add 'need more languages'. XD

Jadeborn's native tongue is Old Realm.

So the 'all sid know old realm' just kinda covered it

Vague Pondering: Do Unarmed Sids also really want Brawl to help round things out or is that sorta 'can do without'?

[upper stratus]

can do without

dodge also works

i assume you mean unarmed martial arts, in which case your primary concern is the need for a defense penalty negator

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's my pondering.

[upper stratus]

so it kinda depends on the MA(s) you use. some MAs will have defensive moves that boost parry, while others boost evasion. sometimes they just generically boost 'defense'. if you have the first you want a dip into brawl for tolerant strife. in the second case you wanna get into dodge in general and specifically to pick up absent self. if your MA's defensive moves are parry/evasion agnostic you don't care and go for either

brawl also has a very nice line of defensive versatile moves, but dodge has more non-combat utility attached that you might be interested in

versatile moves as in 'charms with the versatile keyword'. not the conventional use of the word versatile

[tulip folio]

The martial art I'm going with is mostly Soak/Hardness stuff, so it could work with dodge or parry pretty easily.

[bleak hazel]

Brawl versatile has a lot of amazing stuff

[upper stratus]

in that case if you go for dodge you need to sink a bunch of dots into it to be good at it, but you get a good penalty negator in absent self on top of other great defensive moves like auspicious sidestep serendipity and nemesis evasion style. you also get a lot of cool social-ish moves if you choose to go for it like snappy banter approach, frenzied courtship dodge etc

[tulip folio]

Endings Abilities +

Favoured:

(Brawl or Dodge)
Resistance
Socialise
Craft
(Presence or Performance)

What I'm looking at.

[bleak hazel]

Brawl versatile has four big defensive charms inc. the onslaught negator, Hostility Acceptance and Dead Spouse Defence, an easy way to make unblockable attacks and Speared Boar Struggle for grappling or huge counterattacks

[upper stratus]

with brawl you can get away with literally dropping just 1 dot for tolerant strife but you can get more combat juice out of it if you are willing to spend more dots on it. it gives you a solid defensive combat tree but doesn't really do anything that's not combat

[bleak hazel]

other than breaking people's noses for hitting on you, yes

What's the primary deal with Nephrite's martial art again?

Speared Boar + good soak + Hostility Acceptance is extremely good for enabling terrifying grapples, and she has the soak

[tulip folio]

'Big Soak + Big Hardness + Feats of Demolition'

Rex Frame Form
Cost: 8m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: Event Horizon Grip, Soulless Steel Rebuke
The martial artist flexes her impressive musculature, aligning her internal and external energy into an unbreakable body. She gains the following benefits:

-The martial artist doubles her Stamina for Soak. Against attacks that are not enhanced by magic, she also increases her soak by (Higher of 3 or Essence).
-She gains Hardness equal to (2x Stamina). Against attacks that are not enhanced by magic, she also increases this Hardness by (Higher of 3 or Essence).
-When she moves, she may reflexively make Feats of Demolition to burst through any object that impedes her movement. If she succeeds, her movement is not impeded. If she fails, her movement stops.
-She gains an automatic success on Movement Actions and Feats of Demolition.

Special activation rules: Whenever the martial artist is hit by an attack and does not lose Initiative or Health Levels, she may reflexively activate Rex Frame Form.

Where most martial arts are a Brawl Charmset, Rex Frame is closer to a Resistance Charmset with some minor offensive aspects.

...actually...actually.

Speared Boar has a really good combo here.

'I attack you'
'Cool, I tank my defence with speared boar. That gives me an automatic counterattack. Then it goes to hardness and I stop it. That gives me a second counterattack with Souless Steel Rebuke'

Soulless Steel Rebuke
Cost: 5m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Counterattack, Terrestrial
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Body and Soul Alignment
The practitioner of Rex Frame does not fear those armed with weapons, for her perfect alignment of muscle and internal energy is as strong as any magical material. Warriors find their weapons shaken from their grip, horsemen are flung from the saddle like their mount had struck a wall and even crossbowmen find their own bolts reflected back towards them.

-Soulless Steel Rebuke can be used to respond to the attacker when the Martial Artist stops an attack with Hardness or reduces it to Minimum Damage, rolling (Stamina + Resistance + Essence) for a Decisive counterattack.
-Against Melee Weapon attacks, this is a Disarm or Unhorse Gambit.
-Against Ranged, Natural Weapon and Unarmed attacks, this is a Decisive attack with (Resistance) raw damage that ignores Hardness. It does not add initiative or reset the martial artist to base initiative.

Terrestrial: The Martial Artist does not add (Essence) to the attack.

I think brawl is the goto here. As brawl + rex frame gives a lot of 'I am gunna do mean gambits to you' potential.

[tulip folio]

Horrific Wreath feels...not great.

lower of strength or essence means 'generally essence' for a str 5 character.

[upper stratus]

target's essence, not your own

[tulip folio]

Oh yeah, it's just it's going to be pretty uncommon to find some Really High Essence foes for a bit. I dunno, I could be wrong.

[upper stratus]

generally for spirits/fae etc to be a noteworthy challenge to even low essence exalts they need to have a higher essence than them

against exalts who are on equal footing it's a litlte more fraught

[tulip folio]

That's fair, I might be underestimating it.

[bleak hazel]

It's solid, but nothing earthshaking

[upper stratus]

well, of course. the earth shaking comes from easily accepted proposition stance

[bleak hazel]

The melee equivalent is rather more consistent but the downside is that melee withering boosters aren't so good, Smiling at the Damned is decisive only

it really does damn people though

love my 4m agg damage

[tulip folio]

Charms (15/15)
General: Judicious Application of Force, Unyielding Tenacity, Someone’s Son Style

Investigation: Efficient Secretary Technique
Occult: Mark of Exaltation, Incite Decorum
Brawl: Tolerant Strife, Hostility Acceptance Technique, Lady-or-Tiger Tactic
Resistance: Ox-Body Technique, Optimistic Security Practice
Craft: World-Shaping Artistic Vision, Atelier-and-Embassy Auspice

Martial Arts
Rex Frame: Body and Soul Alignment, Unstoppable Boar Charge

Alright, this is Pre-Bonus Points so it's not the final list. I'll likely use the bonus points primarily for 'rounding out caste/favoured abilities'/picking up a couple of charms that needed more than 3 in the skill (Since that also takes bonus points).

The intent is that she's a Durable Brawler with Social and Crafting as Secondary areas of note.

Mark and Secretary are there mostly due to 'well, those seem generally useful'.

[bleak hazel]

If you're dipping investigation I recommend Spider Google instead, it's very solid and doesn't tie up your motes

[tulip folio]

...isn't that spider google?

[bleak hazel]

Wait yes it is, sorry, I mixed the name up with Research Assistant Invocation

I would go Speared Boar or Unobstructed Blow before Lady-or-Tiger, but otherwise looks good

[coral wraith]

Don't you dare besmirch Research Assistant Invocation

It's goated

[upper stratus]

my motes

[tulip folio]

Speared Boar is 100% on the list to grab, just needs bonus points due to the brawl 4 prereq.

[bleak hazel]

being able to just slam the heavily armoured sword enjoyer over and over by mashing the unblockable button is very useful

assuming you whelm decently

[upper stratus]

it's still insane to me sids just get a essence 1 ez unconditional unblockable

[tulip folio]

I have God-Kicking Boots (Though I may replace them with Smashfists because Smashfists have Grappling and are thus just Objectively Better God-Kicking Boosts, especially for a sid with sid grapple charms).

...though thinking about it: Grapple gambits are a decisive. So you don't get accuracy.

What benefit does the grappling tag have over just 'Use Hands, When You Grapple'?

Assuming you've got free hands

[upper stratus]

specialty applies if you have it

also more relevant for melee where like. normally grappling is down with brawl or martial arts. but if you are a melee andy with a whip you can use that to grapple

[tulip folio]

That's fair.

I might stick with god kicking boots just for the visuals.

[bleak hazel]

Smashing tag very good

mash that button

[tulip folio]

God Yeeting Boots. XD

'And here we have a sidereal, the mystical masters of esoteric martial arts'
8ft tall sid smashes through a wall, bodyslams one person and finishes off another with Sweet Chin Music
'Close enough'

[tulip folio]

Yeah, ended up trading out lady or tiger for unobstructed blow.

Also used bonus points to pick up the best Sid Stealth Charm.

Underling Invisibility Practice XD

[fierce star]

you know iki you don't need an excuse for a charact to wear a maid outfit

[tulip folio]

snrk

[bleak hazel]

UIP is extremely useful and also caused me to once say the sentence "it's a good thing this culture has slavery" mid-infiltration, which luckily nobody was around to misquote me on

Bureaucracy has UIP and Terminal Sanction, Awareness has the godly E1 tracking charm, tons of good dips for Sids

[coral wraith]

Stealth is also just a legitimately good charm tree, to be fair to Sids

[upper stratus]

cracked mask sacrifice more like cracked defense charm

[coral wraith]

Unbreakable Silence is goated, Subordinate Inspiration Technique is a secret influence hack

Combine with Peacock Shadow Eyes for -4 Resolve

[tulip folio]

Oh it is but I'm also 'dexterity 1' 😛

[coral wraith]

Alas!

[tulip folio]

Hmm...what are some good control spells for someone who's not got great intelligence/occult? Like, ti's not terrible but she doesn't want to really be doing it a lot under stress so she's unlikely to do much Combat Magic.

[fierce star]

I'm sure someone will suggest ISOB,w hich can be put up before a combat

[velvet raft]

Put up at the beginning of the day, even

But the big reason ISOB is a wild control spell is that the control benefit is always-on

[tulip folio]

Hmm...+essence soak would push her up from 12 (17 in form) to higher values.

[velvet raft]

It's quite nice

And if you are using the actual spell it also increases hardness

Not a bad deal

[tulip folio]

Yeah, though it does count as armoured so casting the spell isn't likely.

[velvet raft]

Uh ... Stormwind Rider lets you bullet-jump (Stamina) times per day

I think I got that name wrong

The one where you ride a small tornado

[tulip folio]

A sorcerer who knows Stormwind Rider as her control spell is buffeted by winds whenever she is beset by strong
emotions. Sudden movements cause a small vortex powerful enough to scatter papers, upset furniture and topple someone caught off-guard. Her vertical leaps are buoyed by wind, allowing her to leap upward a single range band as her movement action; she can do so up to (Stamina) times before needing to rest.

Oh, that's not even 'per day' that's just 'before needing to rest'. So you can Double/Triple Jump. XD

[velvet raft]

Yeah, it's not bad at all as a passive benefit

Beckoning That Which Stirs the Sky normally requires some actual facility in sorcery, but the control benefit lets you take the bad weather with you

So if you want it to be raining all the time for some reason

Oh, wait, you still need to do an Int + Occult roll

Impervious Sphere of Water ... probably not, but amusing how it lets you roll around in a hamster ball of water

Keel Cleaves the Clouds control lets you walk on mist or fog

Oh! Is this an unarmed character?

Unslakable Thirst of the Devil Maw is at least interesting

[upper stratus]

goes hard (visually) on a water stylist

[velvet raft]

Virtuous Guardian of Flame can be cast out-of-combat, is reasonably strong, and the control effect lets you awaken evocations for it

High Int and Occult do help with it though

[tulip folio]

Distillation of Artificial Forms (Alchs) might be pretty cool It's non-combat and only 7 sm so the mediocre int won't matter so much and the control is wide ranging, if only one die.

Control: The sorcerer’s tears are a dilute form of this spell’s acid, dissolving trace amounts of inanimate matter. This is exceptional equipment (Exalted, p. 580) on rolls to examine composition of objects or substances, Craft rolls involving chemistry, and feats of demolition.

[upper stratus]

you just have to be a crybaby

[tulip folio]

It's a pretty cool spell, if one that needed a specific 'no shenanigans' sidebar. XD

[velvet raft]

Blood Lash is an interesting one. Could have a lot of utility in the right game

[tulip folio]

Doing Science
While players are encouraged to use Distillation of Artificial Forms in interesting and evocative ways, science in the world of Exalted is subject to the logic of myths, not reality. The Storyteller can veto overly technical uses of this spell based on modern chemistry and physics if they’re disruptive to the story’s genre, mood, or tone. 

It's a very funny sidebar.

[velvet raft]

Flight of Separation lets you talk to birds

Oh! Hound of the Five Winds is cast out of combat and gives you a bunch of dogs if it's control

Magic door-opening powers

[tulip folio]

That's pretty fun. I'll note down ISOB, Stormwind Rider and Distillation of Artificial Forms as 'maybe'

[velvet raft]

... I'm sorry what

[tulip folio]

Mists is very silly.

[velvet raft]

As if this spell was insufficiently busted

I wish Cirrus Skiff weren't extremely slow

Making it Indefinite is very fun but

[tulip folio]

On the necromancy front (As sids can learn basic necromancy), Door of the Dead or Seat of Deadly Splendor could be fun.

The control for Seat basicly means you never need to Cast The Spell.

[velvet raft]

Remember you can only have one control for each level between Sorcery and Necromancy

[tulip folio]

Yep but in this case it's just 'I want sorcery or necromancy to do some work with artifacts as a crafter later'. 😛

More than 'I want anything out of it specificially'

[velvet raft]

Hm ... I guess Cirrus Skiff control has some utility in letting you do Wits + Occult for combat movement

That's not bad

Still weirdly slow out of combat

[tulip folio]

Seat of Deadly Splendor is also just a very funny spell

[velvet raft]

For an Essence 5 caster it goes 30 mph

For an Essence 1 caster it goes 6

[tulip folio]

...I might ask the GM about a sorcery-swapped seat of deadly splendor. So a magic seat that's a bit less boney. As nothing about a Lordly Throne is inherantly a 'only necromancy could do this'.

[velvet raft]

... that is very funny

[bleak hazel]

Hounds as control is great for mid-investment combatants because they have a gang-up clause, and a squad of four of them has a very plausible imitation of a Terrestrial Excellency

the downside is they're easy to slap around in return, so if you (and your party) are an absolute top-flight elite murder machine with tons of defence and soak you might not want one around because they provide initiative batteries to enemies who would otherwise be target-starved

[velvet raft]

Aside from being quite a good spell, that control benefit is hilarious

"All chairs become elegant bone chairs"

[bleak hazel]

the convenient out there is to treat four or five dogs in a ball as a size one BG

dogsphere

[velvet raft]

I think they also probably trail off in usefulness

At low Essence the wolfpack is giving you more benefit

[bleak hazel]

Also true

[velvet raft]

Amusingly, you can change your control spell by picking up Necromancy

[bleak hazel]

but they're accurate enough to apply some pressure to basically anything

[velvet raft]

So you could grab the dogs at Essence 1 and then at Essence 3 maybe dip into necromancy and switch to ISOB or something

[bleak hazel]

Seat of Deadly Splendor is my Abyssal's control, it's very neat

I also get to continually make jokes about the Bone Throne

at shadow circle it's absolutely Hundred Shade Breath because HSB is amazing

similar pressure as the dogs, reflexive order actions with a non-war stat and they're a battlegroup, so slapping them provides tiny chunks of init compared to a blood ape or similar and they can engage basically the whole enemy force at once

[fierce star]

Ugh, I'm still trying to figure out a good necromancy control spell for my lunar

the bone throne is great but it's not really thematic for an exorcist out to kill bad ghosts and help good ones

[velvet raft]

Is there something in Sorcery that would work?

[bleak hazel]

The zombie battlegroup is not exactly sturdy but it is reasonable meat

[tulip folio]

Have you considered Door of the Dead? It lets you Go To Afterlives, not just Shadowlands.

[fierce star]

ooh

that is a fair point

[obtuse heron]

i heard somewhere that Fall of Jiara was a good actual play but literally the first episode and one of the characters has slaves, dropped it

idk who recommended that but why

lmao

[bleak hazel]

not an entirely uncommon position for a powerful person in most areas of Exalted to be in, although most games do sidestep that where players are concerned

[bleak hazel]

Someone on the Exalted discord was recounting an incident where they shoved a Sidereal into the Labyrinth through that door earlier

go be a Reckoner somewhere else

[obtuse heron]

https://tenor.com/view/goodbye-doom-slayer-backroom-vanish-dissapear-meme-gif-27302256

[prisma sun]

I mean yeah, slavery is pretty common in Creation

[mighty rover]

as is like, monarchism

[fierce star]

Serfdom is kind of the common state of a mortal human in exalted

[tulip folio]

My stance on that sorta thing is very...same rules as the Red Rule. If a player is uncomfortable, avoid things but slavery is a fact of life for most of creation. Especially if you live anywhere controlled by the Guild, Deathlords or Lookshy.

Looksky having a Helot caste and all that, as part of their 'We're Sparta With Power Armour' thing.

[prisma sun]

And even outside of those areas you have a lot of raiding cultures who have a slave caste as a matter of course

[mighty rover]

This makes sense yeah

[prisma sun]

Also

getting a friend into Exalted and he is 100% stun-locked into making a Lunar sorcerer with a focus on demon-summoning

because he thinks Blood Apes are too funny

[mighty rover]

blood ape moment

[tulip folio]

So you could say he's going bananas?

[mighty rover]

gorilla bananas

[dense verge]

iirc lookshy misues the term helot because among other things they have voting rights, this irks me to no end

[fierce star]

they don't have voting rights but they can own land

err

they cna own property

but not land

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's just outright slavery. XD

[fierce star]

They also have outright slaves on top of helots!

and then indentured workers/servants

Lookshy out here on three different layers of slavery

[tulip folio]

Some Looksky guy getting real particular on slavery rules like a libertarian arguing about romeo and juliet laws.

[fierce star]

lord

[prisma sun]

Military Junta lacking human rights? whoulda thought

I'm trying to save all the boxes I have for the canto

because I wanna do the story in one sitting

[velvet raft]

I think the use of Greek terminology with Lookshy is mostly meant to get the reader on the "oh they're Sparta" mental track

[dense verge]

drawing salaries and owning land are two things helots very much did not do!

its still not a good situation but still

[prisma sun]

What is drawing a salarry

[dense verge]

it reads to me as an incomplete sparta analogy that doesnt go all in for the sake of sparta apologiism, but thats just me

i assume drawing a salary is that they are paid wages for labor

[fierce star]

They get Lookshy's UBI

[prisma sun]

I don't think it's Sparta apologia so much as just like as 3e trying not to just make objectively evil societies

[dense verge]

also true but helot is just a very specific term to use

[prisma sun]

Yes but like, in the sense that they are a social class above slaves but below full citizenry

They fit most specifics

[tulip folio]

I mean, I think they're still slaves. It's just they named their lowest type of slave slaves despite there being several types of slave there.

[prisma sun]

I mean yes, but this is also a distinction that was in Sparta

[next delta]

It's kind of interesting that people often don't like making a society that is past some level of evil, even though they definitely existed historically

(though I think a society that has three levels of slavery would be considered objectively evil in a modern context)

[prisma sun]

In a modern context yeah, we'd consider most societies before like 1850 evil

[tulip folio]

It's also objectively evil in exalted. After all, it's anti-solar 😛

pulls off mask to reveal 2e developer

[prisma sun]

not on my watch demon

[next delta]

Hmm, so Helots in the Lookshy sense are more like serfs in the normal sense?

But Lookshy is more a command economy than a feudal one?

[prisma sun]

Well like, even then serfs are a specific term

So we run into the same issue

[tulip folio]

They're serf-ish but then that runs into 'okay but isn't serfdom a type of slavery?' XD

[next delta]

Well, they are bound to the land is the part I was thinking of

[prisma sun]

Helots don't seem to have their livelihoods or personhood tied to the land they live on so they don't seem to qualify as serfs

[next delta]

They can request transfers but aren't guaranteed them

[prisma sun]

Work transfers

[tulip folio]

And they can be conscripts too, as they make up a bulk of the army.

[fierce star]

"I'm no good as a farmer, milord, can I go work the mines instead? I yearn for them so"

[prisma sun]

With the knowledge that Lookshy is a highly urbanized city-state

[tulip folio]

But Draftees/Conscripts are a type of slave soldier etc.

[fierce star]

most of them are probably working in logistics in some form

[next delta]

Oh, actually I guess it's more like whatever you'd call someone in an authoritarian communist country huh

[tulip folio]

I'm not sure I'd go with that, as they don't even have the illusion of equality.

They're Actively Less Human

Rather than society being like that for everyone

[next delta]

Oh. That's fair

The hereditary part is very not communist

I was thinking: can't own land, does get paid, does own personal property, has to ask the state to change jobs sounds like a certain era of communism?

[next delta]

Though, the Spartan ritualized war to abuse and murder of Helots seems particularly evil even for the time

[tulip folio]

I think it's more well, the 'military' part of military dictatorship.

Soldiers don't own the base they live on and can't really change jobs freely.

With their officers having become a military caste with extra privileges over time.

More in line with nobility.

[next delta]

Oh, that's an interesting view. Now I kind of wish they went with that language

[tulip folio]

To be fair: It's still undeniably slavery so I think for setting vibes when people quickly read over stuff, Helot is good even if not technically accurate

[prisma sun]

The only problem is we very much lack first-hand accounts of Spartan life and almost all the contemporary accounts we rely on are written largely by their political rivals

Like I kinda held "Yeah I think the Aztecs and Spartans deserved to be destroyed" as a view in my edgy teen years but I've realized that actually hyper-oppressive and violent societies like that actually just Don't Last Hundreds Of Years

[tulip folio]

I think going with a more neutral/nice term for their legions of slave soldiers, they'd kinda take away from the important factor that - Yes, this society has multiple slave castes, even if Helot is not perfectly accurate for the type of slavery they are.

[next delta]

Yeah that's fair. Probably more appropriate for a sci fi setting where a post-apocalypse military devolved into a hereditary nobility with hints of a more meritocratic past

[prisma sun]

I mean Lookshy is explicitly meritocratic

and culturally abhors nepotism and corruption

The Gentes get leeway but even they have to actually back up their names

[next delta]

Well, hereditary classes aren't very meritocratic. But "you can be promoted by extreme heroism" is a hint at it

[tulip folio]

(It's something that's on my mind due to doing stuff for a Weird Vietnam War game + Being Australian. So 'military slavery' is something that is on my mind a bit. XD)

[next delta]

On one hand yes, on the other hand, Trump has made me reconsider that lmao

[prisma sun]

That's very much not comparable

[tulip folio]

Which thing in particular is not comparable? Sorry, not sure if that's aimed at me or not

[prisma sun]

Shield's

Like yes tyrant's exist but societies kinda can't go full throttle forever because it pisses everyone off and then they get killed.

[tulip folio]

Fair. As I was going to say, Australia's had a pretty strong 'Conscription is a type of slavery' standard for quite some time. XD

[bleak hazel]

yeah, it's not quite viewed that way in much of the rest of the world

although I suspect if anyone actually tried to conscript Brits circa now that might change pretty sharpish

[tulip folio]

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RC00331/screen/3783329.JPG

It turns up in our War Memorial!

[bleak hazel]

also, funny thing that was just pointed out to me: Speared Boar Struggle scales with init and Anys Syn knows Soulfire Form

[prisma sun]

I think conscirption at this point could only maybe be sold in a Ukraine type situation where the alterrnative is clear

[bleak hazel]

I add 9 non-charm successes to my grapple

and then dead spouse defence the hit

[tulip folio]

That's a Very Dead Spouse.

[prisma sun]

https://tenor.com/view/chainsaw-man-kobeni-kobeni-chainsaw-man-kobeni-csm-kobeni-kobeni-csm-gif-27119547

The Retainer you assigned to watch over your husband seeing him fucking Detonate as you fight Anys Sin

[upper stratus]

uh oh

[tulip folio]

9 non-charm successes on a decisive attack is also very silly if you've got some good sources of 'turn extra successes into more decisive damage' for it.

Just punch straight through a guy.

[prisma sun]

Well Anys knows every martial art

so presumably there's something in there

[tulip folio]

And there is a few of them in various martial arts yeah

She'd need 2 of them I think as most normally cap at like 5 turned into extra dmaage

[prisma sun]

Every time you design a martial art Anys Sin gets stronger

[tulip folio]

But that's still 'Okay, so I'm init 10 so you are eating a...damage 25 decisive counterattack. Have fun!'

[prisma sun]

https://tenor.com/view/ds1-well-what-is-it-well-what-is-it-dark-souls-well-what-is-it-dark-souls-ds1-gif-17720947570951000707

Anys Sin about to rock your shit into next week

[bleak hazel]

you can do better actually

it's Versatile, so you just add this

[prisma sun]

fuck

[bleak hazel]

you won't trigger the mastery effect that autocrashes them for successfully defending against the triggering attack, but you will still reduce your target to soup

[prisma sun]

well

you wouldn't reduce them to soup

[bleak hazel]

I love crane style

[tulip folio]

Non-lethal soup 😛

[prisma sun]

You Can't Kill 'Em

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah

that has a fun side effect with my favourite stupid elder combo actually

[prisma sun]

https://i.imgur.com/m51JLBZ.png

Drifts has this actually

which is

incredibly funny coincidence

[bleak hazel]

Prismatic Form + Smiling at the Damned + Wisdom of the Celestial Crane = your entire health bar is filled with aggravated damage, including your incap level, but you are guaranteed to live, so you get to feel all of it

[prisma sun]

and makes me headcanon that it was put in place by his sifu absolutely kicking his fucking ass

[bleak hazel]

pushing my target into the torment nexus as a learning experience

crane style is such a good style, I love it

[bleak hazel]

the ideal lesson

(also after this you have a defining tie of love towards the world, somehow)

[prisma sun]

Misc you forgot to add Kindly Sifu's Quill

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah, +double 7s from good trash talk

[prisma sun]

wait do Blood Apes not have the infintie blood ape machine thing anymore

I thought they did

[next delta]

Ah, fair for societies. I was thinking of how sometimes historians are like "there are no way this guy is this bad. It must just be slander as the writings by existing enemies are what survived"

[prisma sun]

Yeah but the problem is saying that about Sparta

The Country

Which had centuries of rule

[fierce star]

Hmm.

What's worth more, dumping a caste attribute to 1 so I can have a non-caste/favored higher to save a lot of XP in the long run, but then I can't start with a damage adder...

well, I guess the circle screams is a damage adder of a sort

add acc to ovwhelming against lower initiative enemies, also to raw damage if crashed for withering, for decisive add a die of damage if they have lower initiative

[velvet raft]

Not saying it's meant to be 1-to-1. I don't think it is. My point is that it's meant to be evocative.

Lookshy draws on a bunch of different places

Just off the top of my head, Edo-period Japan, modern Singapore, the powerful cities of early modern Italy

And also the city-states of classical Greece and Sparta in particular

So they use the word because they want you to think "oh I get this analogy"

It is not meant to be historically accurate.

[dense verge]

yes, im just grumbling

[prisma sun]

Even though I do think it is like, generally historically accurate

[dense verge]

i will admit to not having the most definite grasp of classical spartan history tho

[velvet raft]

At the very least Lookshy feels ... sociologically plausible, to me

[dense verge]

lookshy does have means of expanding the citizen class tho, which is already better than sparta iirc

which had myriad ways to lose spartiate status without really being ways to gain it

[velvet raft]

Yeah, Lookshy is actually pretty well-organized

I think it takes cues from city-states throughout history

As well as modern juntas

It sucks but it's not a bureaucratic nightmare

Its biggest problem is that the well of First Age artifacts is starting to run dry

And without those it cannot maintain its current status

It's got people scouring the Scavenger Lands for anything it can make use of

[bleak hazel]

the Craft (First Age Artifice) skill is sufficiently annoying that it's basically impossible for non-Solaroid PCs to make any new stuff, but theoretically an NPC sid could be making more gunzosha suits, which is interesting

(they wouldn't be giving them to Lookshy, though)

you can't speed up the project with a Sid craft speed booster, but you can still make three-dot Gunzosha in three months

[fierce star]

The biggest problem with Gunzosha armor is it's five willpower to attune to it, so your ideal mortal candidtate is like

willpower 8 minimum plus an elite soldier

random lookshyan character thought: someone who's (family member) was a Gunzosha trooper and they trained all their life to be worthy of the same honor... but then exalted as a dragonblooded before the implantation surgery, so the General Staff very gently had them reassigned to a different unit and they're a little salty about that, since Gunzosha armor is a little wasted on a DB as an eggs/basket thing I feel like

like, from lookshy's perspective

[velvet raft]

That could be very funny, yeah

Lookshy still has nukes, so it's not going under

[bleak hazel]

you don't commit willpower, you just have to be Adequately Shonen to attune in the first place

then you sleep for a week and you're back to full

so only 5WP, which is still above average

if an exalt could attune that way it might actually be worth crafting, but as is sorcerous workings cost so much XP that it's basically pointless for a Lunar or Sid to bother learning FAA

[fierce star]

Pay

oooh

wellshit

I thought it was committed like motes were

[velvet raft]

But its force-projection and ability to withstand direct assault is diminishing

[fierce star]

... Hmm

[velvet raft]

(This is why I introduced a whole "Lookshy is trying to get the Scavenger Lands to unify under it" metaplot in the RP server)

[fierce star]

do you think a non-alchemical in autochthon could take advantage of autochthonian artifice's lessened restrictions if they had access to the octet's resources/infrastructure, or do they lack the connection to the great maker required, you think?

[bleak hazel]

no willpower cost is committed, there are a few indefinite-length buffs with a WP cost that you want to slap on before bed so you get the WP back immediately

most prominently, Ways of Exaltation

[velvet raft]

I think access to the octet's resources and infrastructure would be difficult

It's sort of immeasurably vast

By Creation standards

[fierce star]

I mean, it'd amount to 'become a citizen/be a citizen and prove your merit to the tripartite'

[velvet raft]

OH

[fierce star]

you don't need teh whole of the octet

[velvet raft]

In autochthon

[fierce star]

just like, one metropolis

yeah

[velvet raft]

I misread

I think I moved the non

[fierce star]

ah

[velvet raft]

Yeah for sure

[fierce star]

yeah an alchemical in creation is definitely stuck with FAA I feel like

[velvet raft]

Any exalt crafter would adore working in autochthonia, I suspect

The manufacturing infrastructure is simply unequalled

The Octet would likely be wary of a non-alchemical, though

[fierce star]

they are canonically so yeah

dragonblooded ina utochton get the side-eye because they're obviously not mortal but also not an alchemical, and are more powerful than a mortal

[velvet raft]

Alchemicals have a strong intrinsic relationship of mutualism with the mortals of autochthonia

Other exalts don't need that

They're comparatively self-sufficient

Which would make any sensible government nervous

[fierce star]

There's a DB in the alchemicals game i'm going to join who's an important NPC who's basically been blocked from promotion in the Sodalites despite his skill, but he's also a True Believer in autochthonian society's beliefs so while he's grumbly about it he understands the paranoia (for now)

[velvet raft]

I like that

Something that might be fun is if Autochthonian artifice were so well codified and the infrastructure so built-up that the benefits of being a crafting exalt are much smaller, comparatively

[bleak hazel]

the FAA rules do annoy me because the Sorcerous Working requirement basically means you put 19xp into gaining the FAA skill in the first place entirely for the right to spend 4-6xp per beamklaive you make

I got all these craft charms so I didn't have to spend XP on my relics, game

[velvet raft]

Sort of like how Gunzosha armor is far more transformative for a mortal than for a DB

[fierce star]

autochthonian artifice's rules are a big jump from FAA. because, uh

you can ignore all the requirements.

Teh skill? you use craft (artifacts) instead. Sorcerous workings? Unnecessary.

[velvet raft]

The power of infrastructure

[fierce star]

Lore/Occult 5? Nah, 3's good

[bleak hazel]

the downside is that having a bunch of XP tied up in Craft already kinda sucks if your GM doesn't give you downtime

it doesn't need to be any worse

and yes, AA helps a lot there

[velvet raft]

Oh I just mean setting-wise

[bleak hazel]

I would be fine with needing Craft (FAA) if I wasn't paying XP in order to pay more XP

[velvet raft]

Like, Exalts are still better at crafting, but with all this infrastructure, mortals can do a good enough job

[upper stratus]

where's the normal first age artifact crafting rules

[velvet raft]

Ngl, an Autochthonia game appeals to me in part because I am civil service-brained

Kinda for the same reason Sids appeal to me

[bleak hazel]

bottom of the craft section in the corebook

[upper stratus]

legendary project?

[bleak hazel]

broadly manages to say "Solars only" without actually using the word Solar

no, past that

Legendary Project is for N/A stuff, first age or no first age

[fierce star]

starts on page 243

[velvet raft]

FWIW, from a setting perspective "solars are functionally required to do this kind of crafting" is a necessary conceit of the setting

[fierce star]

and it's nto outright siad in the manuscript but I think it would be entirely reasonable for mortal craftsmen to craft two-dot or even lower three-dot artifacts if their metropolis has the right municpal charms tbh

*muninciple

however you spell it

city charms

[prisma sun]

Autochtonia doesn't really appeal cuz it feels like it gets rid of a lot of cool Exalted things in replacement for cool things that are also still possible in Exalted already

It doesn't feel like an even trade of setting

[velvet raft]

It's a very different vibe

More bounded

More ... organized?

[prisma sun]

I lose my dinosaurs

[velvet raft]

Autochthonia having eight functioning administrative states makes me sigh in joy

[prisma sun]

what price they ask me to pay

[bleak hazel]

it is for N/A, but the FAA rules are deliberately not locked from non-solars, just Incredibly Pointless

and since NPCs don't track XP, they're specifically locked off from non-solar players

[velvet raft]

ah

I don't see it as better or worse, just very different and appealing to me for different reasons

[bleak hazel]

spending 19xp on Craft(FAA) would be fine if it didn't cost more xp for each cool sword I made

[velvet raft]

In some ways Autochthonia is a brighter setting

[prisma sun]

isn't it actively about to explode

so they gotta leave

[bleak hazel]

it still costs for solars, but they can nuke the success requirement of any artifact in one roll, reducing the cost from 6-7xp to 1-2

[velvet raft]

That was a 2e thing

Locust Crusade as the center of alchemicals is gone

[fierce star]

It's more 'their mostly comatose god is slowly getting weaker but his death is not an immediate threat and can actually be solved from within himself by the people already there'

[velvet raft]

It could still be done but it's not The Entire Deal

[prisma sun]

Gotcha

[velvet raft]

Yeah, autobot is still sick

[prisma sun]

Crucible presented it as the main canon still

[velvet raft]

But as his immune system, the alchemicals are in a position to do something about it

Hopefully

[fierce star]

it's like

[prisma sun]

unfortunately for him I have a strict no living Primordials Policy

[fierce star]

the 'entire deal' in the same way the realm civil war is the entire deal for a DB game

[prisma sun]

cracks knuckles

[velvet raft]

Gaia

[prisma sun]

Why do you think she's in the Wyld

hiding from me

[velvet raft]

XD

My mental image of Gaia is windsurfing through the Wyld

Could not tell you why

[prisma sun]

My headcanon is that the reason Gaia is taking so long is because she forgot she has to come back, since she didn't want to stop loving Luna forever by having that concept wiped away by the ever-changing Wyld, she had to partition it off and leave it in Creation.

[velvet raft]

I always imagined that she's looking for something

The answer to a question

That occurred to her during the Primordial War, perhaps

[fierce star]

that's pretty much my thought; when I ran a game back in 2e where it was important the question was 'Was it only us? And was the revolution necessary? Could there have been another way, if we had been a better family?'

[velvet raft]

Something like that, yeah

I sorta imagine her as defined by her immense focus

There's a sharpened nub of will rocketing through the Wyld, and it's Gaia

[dense verge]

i think if i ever did something with the Gaia thing, it would be that she's next to Autochthon in the Wyld, waiting for him to wake up, and hoping that he does as he slowly spirals in on his isolation. this would also tie into a rise in dragonblooded awakenings in Auto

[fierce star]

that is a cool concept, yeah

[prisma sun]

sister next to her brother on his deathbed but on a cosmological scale

[bleak hazel]

what does Gaia's world-body look like in this situation

[dense verge]

i'd imagine Gaia-As-Location in the Wyld as looking akin to the inside the traveler location in Destiny 2, a place of familiar mixed and jumbled around covered in wild growth. And then next to it is a seemingly endlessly tall wall of metal

I think Gaia may have visited Auto in the Wyld after his departure a few times but this would be the worst he's gotten as he's gone to sleep and turned inwards on himself, ignoring his chronic condition of Meat-itis

[velvet raft]

Isn't Auto in Elsewhere?

[dense verge]

pretty sure he left Creation, which would put him in the Wyld, yeah?

[velvet raft]

Elsewhere is not exactly in Creation but it's not the Wyld, either

It's elsewhere

[fierce star]

Going to double check that and fuond something--battletech is canonical to exalted

They warred against the devouring legions of the ancient Fair
Folk; consorted with the poisoned flame that was not yet the Scorpion Empire; laid siege to a castle that
doesn’t exist, and found themselves defeated. There was the grand folly that was Zen-Mu, and the bitter
war that came after.

leave it to the clans to fuck with things :V

[prisma sun]

how is this battletech?

[fierce star]

Scorpion Empire, what Clan Goliath Scorpion renamed themselves to after conquering the Hanseatic League and the Umayyad Caliphate after their exile from the clan homeworlds and kerensky cluster during the Wars of Reaving

I'm making a silly shitpost based on two things having the same name

Anyway the ex3 manuscript does not specifically say if Autokun is in Elsewhere or the wyld, just... somewhere away from creation

it could be some weird third thing

[prisma sun]

Actual Just Space

Since 3e kinda implies celestial objects are just

mundane celestial objects

Autty can just be in space if you'd like

[dense verge]

whichever is most narratively interesting, auto can be

[velvet raft]

Exalted generally does the whole "order imposed itself on infinite chaos, chaos ain't happy about it (or about being forced to have an opinion on the matter at all)" thing

[chilly sluice]

Nobilis time

[velvet raft]

Yeah absolutely

The shared DNA is there

[prisma sun]

Demiurge If They Were Based

[velvet raft]

Jenna cut her teeth on Exalted and In Nomine, and it shows

[mighty rover]

We love a chaoskampf cosmogony

[chilly sluice]

Though I'm honestly not sure if the Excrucians and the Raksha would get along

[mighty rover]

oh I gotta add In Nomine to my mental map of WoD heartbreakers

[velvet raft]

I think In Nomine was Steve Jackson Games

[velvet raft]

Probably not! The raksha have a somewhat different vibe with the whole "living story" thing

[next delta]

Huh, I didn't think crafting required normal XP (per thing)

[prisma sun]

I love how they kinda have to write around why other Primordials don't just

Exist

by going "and then all the big fae died"

[velvet raft]

But Excrucians do have fairy imagery associated with them

[chilly sluice]

They do yeah

[bleak hazel]

only First Age Artifice

you have to do one sorcerous working per craft roll, which is what actually costs XP

everyone else takes 5-6 rolls per artifact, solars take 1

[velvet raft]

And if you dive into Irish folklore and mythology, this is pretty fitting: the fairies are same people as the Tuatha De Danaan, who moved into the Underworld as part of establishing a peace with the Irish

[next delta]

Oh. PDF reader and book number didn't line up

[velvet raft]

Literally underground, too, hence "people of the mounds"

So, yeah, very similar mythological reference points

Although Nobilis doesn't indulge in the Greek very much, while Exalted goes hard on it

Merging the Titanomachy with the story of Prometheus

[next delta]

Am I blind or is the XP cost a first age artifact of the sorcereous workings required?

[mighty rover]

There's more Greek in the 2e True Gods material

[velvet raft]

I assume the more explicitly Christian stuff in Nobilis was influenced by In Nomine more than Exalted

[next delta]

It's kind of weird how different the crafting and sorcereous working mechanics are despite them being conceptually similar

[prisma sun]

Does Nobilis have Christian stuff?

[bleak hazel]

yes, that's what I said, although you also spend five billion white points to do these things if you aren't a Solar

they only spend 10-20 per project and can get them far more easily

[prisma sun]

Man

I'm glad I got into this in 3e

[bleak hazel]

I was wondering if a Sid or Lunar could make a beamklaive and the answer is "yes, but it would take their entire Essence 1->5 campaign, cost 25+ real XP and not be very good"

instead, Sids can sink their white points into prophecies instead of using real XP

not sure what Lunars do with them

[next delta]

I wish the tires were more explicit on First Age artifact xp cost. The sorcery rules also don't seem to mention their involvement in crafting which is annoying

Can Alchemicals? I think you said they are surprisingly not amazing at crafting

[bleak hazel]

alchs don't need to spend white points on anything crafting-related because they have the Autocthonian Artifice rules

[prisma sun]

I do feel like

the better retcon for this

would be that FAA just requires multiple exalt types to accomplish

[bleak hazel]

other than that they're roughly the same as Lunars, except they can bag their craft suite up and leave it in the cupboard when they're not using it

[prisma sun]

so that's why they can't do them anymore

because everyone hates each other

[bleak hazel]

I know most non-Solar exalts have some kind of white point sink, so there's presumably one in there somewhere

Lunars spend them to double 7s on crafting rolls, Sids spend them on prophecies and running the E5 daiklaive printer, Deebs spend them to reset a couple of their charms (meh)

oh, wait, many-faced strangers helps here, Lunars can also spend them to do sorcerous workings and purchase new craft abilities

that's very handy

[next delta]

Like white xp instead of real xp?

[bleak hazel]

yeah

[next delta]

Ok. So you have your lunar friend do the sorceries workings and then the solar half can do the actual crafting roll lol

[bleak hazel]

huh, I suppose that does work

or the Lunar could solo the entire thing without spending real XP, merely nearly 100 white points

I don't think any lunar has ever had 100 white points at once

alchs can apparently spend white XP on doubling 7s to make artifacts (handy) and on evocations at a 1:1 white point->xp ratio

which is a) nuts and b) possibly a bit much?

[next delta]

That is pretty wild

[bleak hazel]

prophecies and sorcerous workings are considerably less useful than just grabbing an extra combat charm for free per two daiklaives you make

[next delta]

Spending them on Craft skills make sense (because they are kind of a silly xp sink) and sorceries working (because I feel like they shouldn't cost xp in the first place lol). But that is a more directly beneficial thing for sure

[bleak hazel]

Sids pay 3 white per 1xp of prophecy, Lunars pay 5 white per 1xp of working

[next delta]

Oh, that's an expensive ratio

[bleak hazel]

A prophecy costs 4xp, so that's about three artifacts each

Reasonable to expect to get that once or twice in a long campaign with enough left over to run the daiklaive printer and triumphantly summon a 5 dot from thin air at the end

Alchs are apparently the kings of craft XP arbitrage though, hot damn

[fierce star]

alch craft is really good

[bleak hazel]

Well, it's about Sid tier trading a bit of utility for more raw dice power, but Autobot Artifice is incredible, as is a giant pile of free evocations

The free evocations might be slightly too good a white point sink

I'll have to add up the costs of an Art 5-capable Alch crafting site and see how many swords you'd need to make to be profiting

[bleak hazel]

OK, about 70xp to get a full loaded up Craft-Alch, and you need to be Essence 3 for all the speed boosters and the evocation-generating charm

so make about ten 4-dots, two at a time, and turn the white juice into evocations and you're net neutral on XP and up by this giant craft suite

in the extremely unlikely event you're generating enough craft XP and have enough downtime to go full speed for all of this, it'll take about five months, split between periods of about three weeks crafting + regaining willpower and then three weeks waiting for more artifacts to cook

conveniently, you have now equipped your entire circle with 4-dot beam or chain-weapons plus their choice of artifact armour, then unlocked seven or eight evocations on your own gear, which is probably most of them

[mighty rover]

two of the major divine factions are "angels" and "fallen angels" and two more have their origins in the Fall from Eden

[prisma sun]

Completely forgot about them

[bleak hazel]

Isidoros mentioned (apparently)

[velvet raft]

Also humans were thrown out of Eden, the world is 6,000 years old, and there’s a faction of giant snakes whose name is a Bible reference

[tulip folio]

I wonder how much of a dice boost various splats would need to be able to hit that 'can craft artifact ex' like solars. As non-charm dice boosts do exist, they're just often very tricky to find.

[prisma sun]

I think it needs to be multiplication

[tulip folio]

Wait, how do they turn white points into evocations?

[tulip folio]

Oh nice

[fierce star]

ye

1:1 is a nice value

[tulip folio]

Hmm...pondering how you'd value a First Circle Demon vs those corebook animated statues. Blood Apes are more accurate (11 dice on the claws, with damage 15) and have Actual Charms but really lose out in terms of Soak/Hardness/Health Levels.

Principle of Motion and Shattering Roar is a pretty big deal.

[prisma sun]

Is there like

a generic demon swordsman

[prisma sun]

Also I keep forgetting Gorillas can be trained to use weapons

[mighty rover]

@lament owl

[prisma sun]

wh

[mighty rover]

fluffy made a babboon squad in eclipse phase

he needs to know

[lament owl]

Oh yeah I did have that as a plan

[next delta]

Oh, I guess it being once per story really slows down how much conversion you get to do? Though I forgot the guidelines on how often a "story" is for ex3

[limpid badge]

Per Arc, is how I always translate it

[tulip folio]

Initiation: Exorcist's Bells

Not all who are drawn to necromancy are drawn by darkness within. The strongest tool to fight necromancy is necromancy itself and only a master of souls can act as shepherd to those seeking Lethe. One of the most powerful tools used by these necromancers are the Exorcist's bells; sets of Starmetal and Adamant bells, the original of which are thought to have been crafted for Saturn herself. They are passed from master to student, their clear tones cutting through the spells worked by slavers of the dead. One day, it is hoped, the ringing of these bells will crack the foundries of soulsteel that enslave the underworld.

-Shaping Rituals-

Charter Marks: Using Lore or an appropriate Craft, the necromancer may craft a charter runestone as a basic project at difficulty 2. Success grants two necromantic motes, which last for the remainder of the story. Within medium range of a runestone, she may reflexively draw three necromantic motes from it, which last for the rest of the scene, destroying the runestone. If completed as a major project at difficulty 4, the runestone endures; motes may be drawn from it in this manner once per scene instead of destroying it. If used for her control spell, this doesn’t count against her once per scene limit.

Soulsteel Shattering Tone: The necromancer is rewarded by the thankful prayers of souls she saves from cruel magic. When the Necromancer uses Countermagic against a spell cast by a hostile character, she gains a number of necromantic motes equal to her successes. These motes do not stack (Being replaced if you use Countermagic again and would generate more motes than you currently have from this) and last until the end of the story.

Astarael's Get: When the necromancer or a character she is fighting alongside destroys a non-trivial hostile Undead character, Soulsteel Construct or uses a Spell or Charm to directly send a non-trivial character to Lethe, she gains Necromantic Motes equal to that character's Essence. An enemy battle group made up of the Undead that loses all Magnitude is treated as having essence equal to the essence of the battle group plus its size for this purpose. She can have a maximum of 20 necromantic motes gained this way and they last until used.

-Merits-

Dyrim's Call (•): Undead hear the ringing of the Speaker's Bell in her voice, drawing them towards her. Undead who’ve heard her speak this scene count as having a Minor Tie of fascination or respect toward her, whichever best fits their Intimacies.

Warding Talismans (Merit ••): The Necromancer can walk unworried through the ranks of the dead, for she is warded by the flow of Lethe's waters. She doubles 8s on rolls to resist environmental hazards based on necromancy or deathly energy. Against other deathly effects she adds (Occult) dice on her opposed roll or (Occult/2, Rounded Up), to a targeted static value.

This will not protect against effects that are merely enhanced by the grave (Such as a Deathknight's Soulsteel Daiklaive) but will protect against direct usage of such power (Such as a God-Scourging Wail, or most Psyche and Shaping effects based on necromancy or Deathly Energy).

Remembrancer (Merit ••••): The Necromancer draws on fragments of the past, calling up memories of ancient magic. Once per story, she may cast a necromancy spell she doesn’t know, although she must still meet its prerequisites. Thereafter, she may learn that spell without a mentor or source. The Storyteller may deem some spells do not echo deeply into the past, primarily those newly invented by Second Age sorcerers.

Back to tinkering with this attempt at a homebrew initiation. How's it seem?

[upper stratus]

it says lore or craft but what attribute

[tulip folio]

The intent was 'whatever stat you can work with'. As craft isn't tied to a specific stat.

(I try not to dictate specific stats if I can justify it being 'sure, work with whatever one you can justify)

[velvet raft]

The general convention would be something like "(Intelligence or Wits + Craft or Lore)"

[velvet raft]

Wood Dragon is pretty rad

Here's a question, though. Does "Wood Dragon attacks" mean attacks supplemented with wood dragon charms, attacks made with the Wood Dragon Style ability, both, either, or something different?

If one has Wood Dragon Style 5, can one toss out a Soul-Marking Style, and then gain the aiming benefit without using any other Wood Dragon Style charms?

[bleak hazel]

Assuming all your other martial arts stuff is supplemental/reflexive/Sid-Versatile, yes

I believe you can land that, roll all your martial arts attacks as Wood Dragon attacks and gain the aim benefit on them

[velvet raft]

That's what I was hoping, yeah

Not a small boost

[bleak hazel]

If you use something like Centipede's flurry that's going to make Centipede attacks as I understand it, but normal punching is fine

[velvet raft]

Makes sense

Also, thinking about reasons alchemicals love martial arts: a lot of martial arts give you bonuses based on one raw attribute or another

+Dexterity soak from snake style, for instance

They may miss out on Mastery but they get to push that farther than anyone

[bleak hazel]

I'm pretty sure dots over 5 do not count for calculations unless some clause explicitly says they do

Martial Arts don't have the Augmented keyword so you're just using 5 for any stats above that

[velvet raft]

Oh, right, Augmented is a thing

Derp

Tragic

[bleak hazel]

This is why Obsidian Shards Form has a special clause that says "the sixth or seventh dot of perception this gives is included in calculations for other Obsidian Shards charms, even though it's a bonus dot"

the only real exception to the rule altogether is Soulfire Form, which cares not for compatibility and will happily boost your effective Essence for basically anything

[velvet raft]

Right

There are a lot of cool martial arts in this game tho

[tulip folio]

Clearly there needs to be a submodule for perfected martial arts for them 😛

Transhuman Martial Potential (6xp, Essence 3): Martial Arts charms are Augmented.

[bleak hazel]

Lunars looking on jealously from the corner as they fail to get a pangolin to properly execute a karate chop

[tulip folio]

Sids: "I really don't get why they have such trouble. Most of you guys were already dumb apes before the transformation."

[bleak hazel]

since I discovered that Ways of Exaltation gives you anima flux I have been kind of stuck on the idea of a sid going on sabbatical as an Unusually Cracked Water Aspect and just having a nice time playing a Kurosawa character

"I have refused to join any sworn kinship I have been offered, don't read anything into that, but I am Him, so you should bring me along anyway."

[velvet raft]

Water Aspect is also rad since it covers Martial Arts with the dice boost

Although something like Full Moon or Dawn is also very nice for that purpose

[bleak hazel]

water is an excellent compromise - you get Martial Arts, bureaucracy for Terminal Sanction if you need it, basic anima flux pings and an anima banner that doesn't cause any issues with the locals

Full Moon Lunar Ways or Moonsilver Alchemical Ways are probably slightly better for combat because you get all your combat movement in there as well, but going bonfire in those forms can cause a few problems

[upper stratus]

give access to moonsilver paoc charm i don't think a paoc stylist will struggle with combat shmovement much

[bleak hazel]

this is true, you do have blink strike

although that isn't great if you need to run away

luckily if you need to leg it you are probably fine with spending a few motes on your disengage

[upper stratus]

you're certainly not spending motes on attacking

[bleak hazel]

Breathing on the Black Mirror? nah, the scariest thing to hear a Sidereal say is "I spend 0 motes to full excellency"

[bleak hazel]

the only thing that is currently troubling the Elder build of Redsid is that I am not Endings and as such I don't have a straightforward way to get a ton of whelm cheap

Five Jade Fury is 4m for 5 whelm, which isn't awful, but I'm not using Four Magical Materials Form so it's not stupidly efficient

[velvet raft]

Love Four Magical Materials

Also appreciate that they explicitly say an Abyssal could help make it five

Sit down and talk about soulsteel with an expert

[velvet raft]

Also Water Dragon is very strong and gets a lot of benefit from the aura

[tulip folio]

Soulsteel Alch: "I think I should count as an expert on the nature of soulsteel..."
Abyssal: "Okay, where's your access to magical material forms then?"

[bleak hazel]

no, they do count

you just need to be an essence 5 sid to do that with the Alch's help

[velvet raft]

What do y'all think a hypothetical soulsteel charm would be like?

[bleak hazel]

one of the devs apparently wrote their version of the Soulsteel and Adamant charms up on a whim, although they decided not to put them in the Sid companion because that martial art is already huge enough and presumably they wanted to leave it open to tables

both very nasty

[upper stratus]

yeowch!

[coral wraith]

yeowch!

[velvet raft]

Ooof, I love Enervating Soulsteel Grasp

[bleak hazel]

rare case of Sidereal Grabby Hands, SMAs don't tend to be huge on grappling

[velvet raft]

As someone who, in my own experience grappling, has seen the value of draining someone's energy until they just can't fight

It gives me the warm and fuzzies

[bleak hazel]

the Adamant one for 2m is also an incredibly good onslaught negator

[velvet raft]

Flawless Adamant Defense does a great job of compressing a ton of utility into one charm, yeah

Lovely with a bit of Water Dragon

... wait jebus it reverses onslaught penalties?

Incredible

So many things love that

[bleak hazel]

yeah, it has double the efficiency of White Reaper's turnlong onslaught negator and the reverse effect of Single Point's one

[velvet raft]

Love these

[bleak hazel]

brutal if you are also dabbling in Emerald Gyre

it isn't quite as funny as my favourite combo, Essence Redirection Technique and Crane

[velvet raft]

Or if you've picked up some of the nasty Centipede stuff that turns onslaught penalty into wound penalty

[velvet raft]

(Which is even more synergy with Water Dragon, jeez)

[bleak hazel]

the first Essence Redirection every round is mote positive and costs no willpower in soulfire form

so you just stand there going "do you really want to use charms on this?"

[velvet raft]

Yeah that's nasty

[upper stratus]

rain of unseen threads and a built-in dice trick excellency is all i need baybee we ball

[bleak hazel]

I choose to believe Essence Redirection Technique can be a beautiful counterspell but in practice often looks like this:

https://youtu.be/XaI-EOVpDvo?si=m86L_alACO9wOld8&t=53

[velvet raft]

Snake + Centipede + Water Dragon into PAOC really does look amazing

[bleak hazel]

goddamn everything goes well with PAOC

it gives you a giant spread of Moves and all of them are problems your opponent has to solve individually

which is something that is usually a Solar charmset thing, the whole "I can theoretically come up with a way around Solar Melee or Solar Brawl, but it takes two Essence 3 charms to handle each Essence 1 charm they have" effect

(Solar War notwithstanding, that has no counter)

[velvet raft]

(This + Ebon Shadow is Elder Red Evening Sky's hypothetical build)

[tulip folio]

PAOC does sorta make me go 'Man, would I like Literally Any Other Sid Martial Art? Well, if I'm unarmed? Likely not!'

Like the others are great in their own way

[velvet raft]

PAOC has so many fundamentals

[tulip folio]

PAOC being so huge and being one of the few SMA focused on 'Do Numbers Shit' means it's hard to compare.

[velvet raft]

The others do absolutely wild stuff

[bleak hazel]

the main thing about PAOC is that if you aren't using most of it it's a massive XP sink

[tulip folio]

Basicly every other one does 'Here is some Weird Tricks'

[bleak hazel]

179 splat XP is like all your splat XP from E1 to E5

and then some

[tulip folio]

While PAOC goes 'But what if you just beat the other guy into the dirt even harder?'

[bleak hazel]

CMOS is also pretty good at beatdowns

[velvet raft]

I honestly appreciate it - in 2e, PAOC was very much the "here's the basics of SMA" style, and in that sense it wasn't very good

[bleak hazel]

Heavy Cover + -3 penalty to enemy attack + constantly turning intangible = they need to burn a huge number of motes just to get an appreciable hit rate

[tulip folio]

Hmm...pondering a charm ala the sid 'hey, use shields better' to try to make another sometimes a bit iffy weapons shinier.

[bleak hazel]

PAOC now is actually the SMA that most gets across "incredibly experienced, incredibly lethal elder sifu" to me

[velvet raft]

Yeah

[tulip folio]

Do you think 'Heavy Melee weapons gain the shield tag, without the penalty' would be too much for a Permanent Charm for an exalt or evocation?

As well...Heavy Melee is not in the happiest of places.

[velvet raft]

It's the style about styles

[bleak hazel]

you have no creation-slaying oblivion kick but you do all the normal stuff really really well

[velvet raft]

And if you know the whole thing, you are using the PAOC form to combine a bunch of stuff

There's absolutely no reason not to

[bleak hazel]

Enlightenment charms also really help, because it means the Sid master swordsman is weird in a way that the Solar one is not

[velvet raft]

I really like all the Aim bullshit in sid melee

[bleak hazel]

(even if Deadly Starmetal Offensive is kind of mid, I'll be honest - the only truly dud SMA charm)

[bleak hazel]

I can't think of any Full-Defence interaction that that really breaks, I would say go nuts

[tulip folio]

The general vibe is 'Look, it's not as swift as a parrying blade but a greatsword is a bloody great hunk of metal that can interpose plenty fine'. XD

[velvet raft]

Really hard to get close to someone with a weapon like that

Counterattack stuff might make sense for a greatsword-focused MA, thinking about it

[bleak hazel]

really you should just be able to have a light or heavy shield anyway

give me my buckler

or possibly some form of pata-type thing

[velvet raft]

We were talking the other day about how heavy weapons need more juice, and how one way to do that would be to give them lots and lots of tags

[tulip folio]

My general pondering was sorta:

-Heavy Weapons get +1 Non-Charm Bonus on Init Rolls (So Decisive Attacks and Gambits)
-Two Handed Weapons get 2 hands worth of tags.

To make them better at shit like Unhorsing or smashing a weapon from the other guy's hand with sheer force.

So while they're not the most accurate...well, gambits don't use accuracy

[bleak hazel]

Init rolls don't have dice caps, so you can save some words there

seems sensible though

[tulip folio]

Actually that seems like a fun project. Redoing a few heavy melee weapons to play about with attempting to make them more tempting.

Simple/Relatively unlikely to break things.

[fierce star]

I really think Shield is fixed by just taking away the damage penalty.

No other* tags have a negative effect (*except arguably two-handed)

[bleak hazel]

Heaven and Earth Gauntlets on a PAOC FMM Form Brawl Enlightenment siddie is like seeing the face of god because you’re basically never hitting them when it matters

you ever read a sentence, nod in agreement and then realise that you have perhaps dedicated too much of your brain to hyperspecific jargon

[fierce star]

yes, though not for exalted

[prisma sun]

Misc I like how you joined the Exalted forum RP just to talk more about Exalted mechanics

You are unable to find enough of an outlet for the amount of knowledge you have

[velvet raft]

FMM form?

[bleak hazel]

four magical materials form, makes you resonant with Ori so you can clash better

[velvet raft]

Oh right

Also, amusingly, lets you do the Heaven and Earth Gauntlet evocations without needing the gauntlets

[bleak hazel]

at which point you become an absurd blender because you're throwing 0-2 mote full excellency withering clashes at anything that even slightly bothers you

fighters touch gloves

[bleak hazel]

I want to scheme and make gremlin builds, but I have nobody to carefully hone my nonsense with!

(this is a lie, I have several people)

[velvet raft]

The ability to learn an evocation and then just use it forever without the weapon is absolutely wild

[bleak hazel]

I will write up my actual sids for the RP server shortly, I got back from a big trip and giving a lecture yesterday and that was eating a lot of my time

[velvet raft]

There's a case to be made for "just grab the FMM stuff and become an evocation specialist"

Have the most magic hands in all the land

[bleak hazel]

craft a bunch of artifacts, take the time to learn their attunement bonus evos before you pass them down to their buyers

use SidVPN to remotely link into all of them and use all their powers combined

that particular stupid build wants to actually use the Heaven and Earth Gauntlets because they're giving you the equivalent of +12 accuracy on withering clashes

[velvet raft]

Could be very fun for a sid crafter

[prisma sun]

I'm giving King Hu Legend Forging Blow and that's it

[bleak hazel]

11 dice base, 3 dice Exalt Ways, TN-2 free from WSAV, 5 weapon accuracy, 7 clash bonus w/ soulfire Essence 7

+2 stunt

[velvet raft]

Christ

[bleak hazel]

averaging something on the order of 20 successes

4m 1i with no usage limit, so you just do that whenever someone tries to hit you

(this is why I suggest giving that a willpower cost, like the very similar move in Snake Style)

[velvet raft]

H&EG are pretty busted, yeah

[bleak hazel]

they're fairly easy to fix, honestly, they have a very straightforward case of Number Too Large

if someone wanted to use them in my game it would be like a 60 second patch job to make them about right

and you should want to use them because Legend-Forging Blow is cool as hell

[fierce star]

I may be the only person I know who defaults to custom artifacts instead of book ones for most characters

[prisma sun]

Legend Forging Blow is indeed cool as hell

[bleak hazel]

oh all mine are custom

usually because I just want a neat attunement bonus