Who just sorta harvests the Gets out of the ether in service to his personal grudge?
#Exalted
velvet raft
tulip folio
As it leads to 'If they ever print it in a book, that's the One Exigent of that type given a face and a name and most people don't want to play someone else's character'
bleak hazel
and that makes it somewhat implausible for a few Sids to be in the "just kind of around" state they like to be in narratively
next delta
I guess I should phrase it as "permanently reduce the number available to work in the Bureaucracy"
bleak hazel
on sabbatical, teaching at the Heptagram etc.
velvet raft
I guess I should phrase it as "permanently reduce the number available to work i...
Aye, and to me that feels appropriate. But can only speak for myself
next delta
Eh, you can have mechanical categories while still having each exigent be unique in-universe. Which would make sense from a practical perspective
tulip folio
Also like...my favourite of the Exigents so far are the Architects. They work nicely as NPCs or PCs.
And they're a broad category without becoming less distinct for each
Each city is different without the concept of cities being so unique there's only one exalt tied to it.
velvet raft
I’m on the fence about celestial exigents but terrestrial ones are a great addition, IMO
Liminals feel to me like Weird Exigents, and I’m okay with that
prisma sun
Celestial Exigents are fine to me
velvet raft
Yeah, I’m still developing an opinion
prisma sun
gods can throw down with celestials, gods can make exigents, those gods can make exigents throw down with celestials
velvet raft
Yeah, fair
bleak hazel
I would be happier with Liminals and Gets and so forth if they were kinds of exigent
velvet raft
I do agree with that
bleak hazel
and it might make exigents feel a little more impactful if there were a dozen gets running with the Rakan squad
prisma sun
I think Exigents would have to be completely different for that to be the case for me
I do not like the Unconquered Sun being the source of 90% of all exalts
velvet raft
I could see gets working in that way
bleak hazel
as it's kind of "oh, yeah, there are just a bunch of solar-tier randoms wandering around, they've never done anything of note"
prisma sun
I mean they probably were doing backflips across Creation just like all the other Solar-tier people who have been running around for the last few millenia
velvet raft
Wait are the Gets at Solar-tier?
velvet raft
I'm confused, then
prisma sun
I personally just see Celestial as a tier
next delta
Solars are kind of a half-step above other Celestials?
prisma sun
I think that the half-step is a moot point on average
next delta
Fair
velvet raft
Okay, but in the lore Solars are stated outright to be the strongest in terms of raw power
next delta
I thought lore-wise they are supposed to be notably stronger than other exalts
prisma sun
They also lost against the two "weakest" ones with the "second strongest" backing them up
so I feel the whole thing is moot
velvet raft
The Dragon Bloods had an overwhelming numerical advantage
Solars are strong but in the Primordial War, the DBs were the core of their army
Because they needed an army
next delta
It also required careful planning and timing
velvet raft
There were 300 solars and millions of DBs and it still went way worse than the Sids expected
prisma sun
I do not think there were MILLIONS of db
velvet raft
The first age was long and creation used to be noticeably bigger
DB family exaltation rates also used to be a lot higher
bleak hazel
Janest and the two new exigents in particular are solars with new UI filters, their charms are very directly Solar
next delta
I think 10-1 odds of DBs to Solars isn't great for the Solars (and that's about the ratio of DBs to potential solaroids currently)
velvet raft
Also the DBs used to have a lot of solar magitek on hand to even the odds
next delta
I am not sure how the Sidereals arranged this conspiricy without the Solars noticing, and presumably some of the DBs remained loyal?
velvet raft
Some Solars did notice
tulip folio
Solar: "Hey so I turned up for a fancy party and there are 20 DB in warstriders."
bleak hazel
Sids are very good at being sneaky
solars being the strongest does not make them omniscient
next delta
But I think a big part of the plan was stabbing them while a bunch of solars were drunk/high/etc. during Calibration right?
velvet raft
But yes also Sids are very good at being sneaky
tulip folio
I think the biggest part of the plan is they likely tailored each assassination to the solar in question.
The Invincible Sword Princess didn't get people stabbing her.
prisma sun
Some Solars and Lunars also sided with the Usurptation
bleak hazel
"a scant handful" in their case
tulip folio
She got locked in a room until she starved or something
velvet raft
But I think a big part of the plan was stabbing them while a bunch of solars wer...
And that plan largely failed! It was a good first start but it took years of outright warfare to finish the job
next delta
She got locked in a room until she starved or something
Just told mean things until she sulked in her bedroom while everyone else got murdered
bleak hazel
I think if you add up all the sidereal casualties mentioned for the 2e usurpation it exceeds the total number of sidereals, because every single Solar got a loving description of how his prior incarnation killed seventy elders before they finally got him as part of the general "all 2e fluff sucks off the Solars" vibe
I am going to assume that's historical embellishment because clearly there were quite a lot of sids left afterwards
next delta
Maybe it took long enough that more sids kept living long enough to get Elder status
velvet raft
It's noted in the Sid book that there were Solars who were underestimated, Solars who had paranoid contingencies, Solars who were warned, and Solars who figured it out, and the result was that the coup devolved into civil war
bleak hazel
also, if you want to know how many average (E3) deebs it takes to kill an E5 Invincible Sword Princess with max stats, 5 ox-bodies and every relevant charm in 3e mechanics, it's about a dozen
next delta
That or what counted as an elder got a lot shorter during the Usurptation
bleak hazel
that's very doable
velvet raft
DBs are also really good at being an army
That's what their exaltation was designed for
bleak hazel
and that's without prophecies or stacking the deck, etc.
next delta
Also, the Solars were being mad god-kings. Probably wasn't too hard to out-mortal-army them too
bleak hazel
realistically, if half a dozen deebs and a Sidereal master in disguise attack a solar, that solar is very dead
velvet raft
Also, the Solars were being mad god-kings. Probably wasn't too hard to out-morta...
And there was a lot of that one type of artifact armor hanging around back then
bleak hazel
solar vs many smaller exalts wins by doomcomboing everything to death immediately before they can attempt to grind the solar down
and you cannot really do that to a crowd that includes a peer opponent or two
next delta
And there was a *lot* of that one type of artifact armor hanging around back the...
The one that drains your life force but makes a mortal a lot stronger?
bleak hazel
the Calibration Feast Massacre very much still happened
it's just very hard to win a clean war against roughly 700 celestial exalts + whatever subordinate elements stayed on side
velvet raft
The DBs were elite troops, Lunars were generalists, and Solars were specialists
And the Sids were doing a lot of intelligence and infowar stuff
bleak hazel
since when were solars generalists in any matter at all
that is the least solar thing
next delta
🤔 shouldn't Lunars and Solars be flipped there
velvet raft
... I wrote that backwards
next delta
It happens
velvet raft
You can drop a powerful Lunar into a situation and they can approximately do all of the things you need them to do, in their own way.
bleak hazel
the difficult part about the Usurpation wasn't the physical act of killing Solar Elders, it was the fact that they were all (by default, given how the first age worked) in the entrenched position of Elder Exalts, with a billion artifacts and traps and weird fucked up automata or what have you
velvet raft
Solars on the other hand were sort of force equalizers with the very strongest of the enemy in a variety of contexts
bleak hazel
whiteroom, 300 solars get drowned in deeb blood while floundering around under enough Sid Prophecy to make the hairs on the back of your neck spontaneously form into tiny prayer strips
(which by all accounts was basically what happened to the ones that were caught at the Calibration Feast, and the battle still ruined half of Meru)
velvet raft
I suspect that after the calibration feast, a lot of the Usurpation ultimately came down to tossing around artifacts and sorceries of unthinkable power
bleak hazel
there is a general in-franchise rule of "exalts, even deebs, do not get chumped"
(which is why people hated ROTSE so much, for one)
prisma sun
ROTSE?
bleak hazel
Return of the Scarlet Empress
prisma sun
ah
velvet raft
But yeah a Solar is on the one hand much more powerful than a Dragonblood of equivalent experience and resources
bleak hazel
the infernals mind control every deeb, kill every Sidereal by apparently walking into heaven and effortlessly slaughtering them with no casualties and then The Glorious Solar PCs save the day while the lunars do nothing in particular
it was not a well-received book
bleak hazel
very very nearly killed Exalted as a going concern
tulip folio
I'm a big Infernal fan and even I didn't like it. XD
velvet raft
It did the Infernals no credit either, really
velvet raft
But yeah a Solar is on the one hand much more powerful than a Dragonblood of equ...
On the other hand, Solars lack the team-combat abilities of Dragonbloods and they are far fewer, and when everyone in the room is wearing Artifact 4-5 armor that evens things out somewhat
bleak hazel
I do quite like the 3e usurpation because on one hand, it was a shitshow, but on the other hand a large fraction of the Sids managed to get together and write a plan that deposed six-hundred-odd of the strongest entities ever known, and didn't lose
like, credit where it's due, when they fuck up they fuck up with supreme competence and no small measure of style
(as encapsulated very well in their 3e limit track, where they gain willpower as they gain Limit)
velvet raft
I do love that Sid limit says, "your condition should probably be related to things going well"
next delta
Ursurpation solars probably weren't working together as much either
prisma sun
My favorite bit is 3e saying the sun had to admit the solars had to go
velvet raft
The survivors of the feast were probably more isolated types, in general
prisma sun
Imagine that the first party you go to in centuries is that
next delta
My favorite bit is 3e saying the sun had to admit the solars had to go
Wait, was that not a thing in earlier editions?
bleak hazel
break it down on the calibration dance floor (it's martial arts, of course it's martial arts)
tulip folio
Hahahahahah
prisma sun
No they made it so the sids erased all proof of their involvement
And no one jn heaven could prove it
velvet raft
Is like a central lore thing
bleak hazel
no, that was beforehand
velvet raft
Yeah that was always there too
bleak hazel
I think it's always been beforehand, there was that stupid thing in DOTFA about it
velvet raft
In 3e, Breaking the Mask was explicitly related to hiding the Jade Prison
tulip folio
So 2e had an actual sidebar in the book on Yu Shan that basicly went 'Even the gods who supported the usurpation hate sids forever because they don't have the Creation Ruling Mandate, nobody in heaven likes you'
bleak hazel
in 3e it definitely happened beforehand because they had to gather the Sun's crystal tear to make the Jade Prison
tulip folio
2e was not big on 'hey, sids were kinda in the right here'. XD
bleak hazel
2e gave every Solar elder a long loving description of how many sids they killed and made sure that all their carefully engineered slave races were ready to pop out and provide infinite free artifacts to returning solars, the moral ambiguity was somewhat muted
dense verge
we should bring back the demiurges. anybody remember those guys. the blood-drenched star-crowned kings. miss those guys.
velvet raft
Thought: slightly altered version of the setting where the Deathlords and Yozis did not fuck up and lose half the exaltations
Maybe just a few, or none
bleak hazel
abyssal mega squad?
velvet raft
And so there are Infernals and Abyssals but no Solars
bleak hazel
I could be down with Abyssal Mega Squad
dense verge
this would mean i wouldnt have to fix (or get misc to fix) solar's bones so i approve
bleak hazel
it allows me do to my favourite thing more, which is to glue Sids and Lunars together and make them argue their way to victory
(where's my Moon-and-Stars bond apocryphal charm, game, everyone else gets one and I want to really annoy a Lunar)
velvet raft
Just make it 150 Abyssal/150 Infernal
Maybe there can be a few Solars running around, since I think canonically a few Solar exaltations did escape being imprisoned
bleak hazel
yeah, a dozen or so
next delta
Yeah, there have always been a few running around. It's why the DBs etc. kept bothering with people knowing about golden devils
bleak hazel
presumably some of them were the ones that sided with the Usurpers and some of them were the ones that got away
(the Bull is one, as is most of his circle)
velvet raft
At least one of them was shielded by his sister the sidereal
(The Heaven and Earth Gauntlets Guy)
But he refused to go to ground and went out to Do Heroism and got ganked
dense verge
there is at least one solomon david living in a cave somehwere, gotta be
velvet raft
He could've been that
bleak hazel
I know it's good family drama but I swear about 90% of celestials are related to each other at this point
isn't this exaltation thing meant to not be inherited
stop that
have you any idea how many people there are in Creation
tulip folio
Fae: "But it makes for a better Stttooorrryyy..."
velvet raft
I think back in the first age there were ways to make Half-Castes much more likely to exalt
IIRC
velvet raft
I think it can kinda work insofar as it's Solars Doing Bullshit Tampering?
prisma sun
Solars specifically asking for their cool sibling to be made chosen
bleak hazel
doing stuff to Exaltations is like "mythic event of shocking proportions", or it should be
Jade Prison, Monstrances, Infernals
you should not be able to Put In A Note
velvet raft
Yeah I don't think it was every direct control, tbc
fierce star
Look, both gods of exaltations (lytek and whoever's in charge of inherited power, I forget their name) can't control who exalts, no one should be able to
velvet raft
I think it was specifically that it could be engineered on occasion with half-castes
But this was also 2e lore that I only vaguely remember
And exaltation was still very much not under control
fierce star
half-castes are silly
velvet raft
But anyway we could also just say that in this version of the setting the Sids did in fact get all of them and so there are 150 Infernals and 150 Abyssals
Would kinda increase the impact of heroic examples thereof, even
wise ocean
eh, having a couple solars still running around is good for the soul. ~20
velvet raft
Because they can't bump into Solar Jim and Learn The Error Of Their Ways
dense verge
12 is my max of how many didnt get shoved in spark jail
bleak hazel
heavily bubbled solar exaltation
wise ocean
yeah, I was thinking like six didn't make it and then the others got the run on them when the jade prison broke just before the deathlords and the yozi swooped in
velvet raft
... I really like this idea, to be tbh
bleak hazel
I think there should still be a solar left in the jade prison bits
just one, kind of wedged in there
go do a salvage op
velvet raft
Like, this notion of Creation feels compelling to me
It's not like aside from the Bull of the North, Solars have done much so far anyway
prisma sun
He was too big to squeak out
velvet raft
The idea is that Solar players get the chance to do that
prisma sun
The biggest solar ever
velvet raft
But if you get rid of Solars you don't have like
How do I put this
This group of random unaffiliated jerks
And tbf the random unaffiliated jerks gives Exalted a more ubiquitous hook for people to come in on
fierce star
'you all meet in an inn. The wyld hunt is right outside.'
velvet raft
Yes, actually
bleak hazel
playing the wyld hunt always struck me as more fun
velvet raft
But at the level of "I'm already here" I could see removing the Random Dudes being fun
bleak hazel
but I've always been a fan of "you are the group of relatively squishy normal guys dealing with the Superhero Bullshit"
and you can't really do that with mortals because solars are a little cracked for that
velvet raft
All of the other Exalted types have social connections to their own
And that's kinda more interesting to me right now
dense verge
outcaste deebs kind of fit but those arent Big
mighty rover
playing the wyld hunt always struck me as more fun
Sell me on this
I'm thinking of running a DB campaign
velvet raft
Sell me on this
Anathema Hunter Robin
next delta
Look, both gods of exaltations (lytek and whoever's in charge of inherited power...
Well, the relevant Celestials*, deathlords and Yozi do get to make that choice 😛 (And I guess the exigent gods)
* do the Maidens choose who exalts, or did they outsource that to Fate somehow?
tulip folio
half-castes are silly
Half Castes should 100% not be a thing in 3e and I'm glad so far they've not made a showing.
velvet raft
outcaste deebs *kind* of fit but those arent Big
You can still have wanderers of all the types, yeah! But even the fact that they've chosen not to join the crowd gives them a little something-something
next delta
I think the closest you get is that being born to a powerful celestial exalt might give you god-blooded properties? Maybe I hallucinated that
prisma sun
I feel like the various exalt kids work
bleak hazel
no they still exist, there's a sidebar for Starborn in the deeb book
prisma sun
And Lunar born in the Lunar book
bleak hazel
outcastes are good wandering swordsmen
prisma sun
All of King Hus kids have weird tiger powers
next delta
It's not like aside from the Bull of the North, Solars have *done* much so far a...
tbf, the Bull is hogging nearly half of the Solars pre-broken-jade-prison
bleak hazel
because a deeb wandering around doing generic righteous stuff means something, you can ask him questions about why he's not a legionnaire or a monk or doing dynast stuff or whatever
he can have opinions on those institutions beyond SMASH
dense verge
on a tangent but thinking of exalt Mori in an Immaculate Monk resplendent destiny, has refused to shave her hair, and also for her monastic name just introduces herself as Death
velvet raft
tbf, the Bull is hogging nearly half of the Solars pre-broken-jade-prison
My point was more that you don't really need to change anything about the setting
Because there's not Canonically Interesting Solar Stuff that has to be cut out
They haven't done anything yet
next delta
Oh yeah. That's definitely true
velvet raft
It only alters the dynamics going forward, and those in ways I find interesting
prisma sun
The only thing I would say is that should be a proven phenomena that corrupted solars can go back to being solars
Would obviously not be easy but if you were doing no solars I'd feel it weird to not have that be a setting element
tulip folio
Ehh...I feel like the Solar/Abyssal Pinball was one of the weaker things in 2e about being an abyssal as it framed everything in the context of 'If you're a heroic abyssal you'll eventually become a solar' as the endgoal.
bleak hazel
I think that that should be the same kind of nebulous and possibly nonsense future possibility as "infernals eventually grow a soul hierarchy and become primordials", because it's a bit wonky if it's the assumed default
"oh, there are 150 new primordials now, I guess the setting is crushed under their giant feet"
prisma sun
It should be like vampire golconda
tulip folio
I'm really glad that Infernals went 'no, an infernal cannot ever become a solar. Go do your demon shit instead of planning out your Future Solar'
Especially since a 2e Abyssal!Solar was objectively better than other solars.
prisma sun
Exalted is a setting where I think it's lame to say "you can't do" anything
tulip folio
As they got to be a solar but also not ever have limit as they beat the Great Curse that way.
next delta
I think a campaign goal of "you can steal the abyssal and infernal exaltations back for the Unconquered Sun" would be reasonable. But otherwise I would leave it as either not commented on, or only as a rumour in setting
prisma sun
Your player characters killed God as the first thing they ever did
velvet raft
And especially with Infernals, especially with no reclamation, there's a lot of room for being cool and heroic, it's just that they have to struggle with having something inhuman inside them as the source of that power
Exalted is a setting where I think you have to ration the "can't do"s very carefully so that when you do hand them out, it's meaningful
dense verge
"Yes, but," "Yes, and," are both good phrases
fierce star
Half Castes should 100% not be a thing in 3e and I'm glad so far they've not mad...
They sssssorta have acutally
but only for lunars
velvet raft
But Golconda feels like a fine comparison because Golconda has no mechanics and may be entirely mythical
next delta
Exalted is a setting where I think it's lame to say "you can't do" anything
Oh, yeah, I wouldn't make uncorrupting the solar exaltations a can't do. But I also wouldn't make it a definite thing that can happen
fierce star
Oh, neat
so half-castes are kinda a thing but they're not like
Super Special Godchildren (TM)
prisma sun
I don't think you need mechanics except you change the character to a new splat
tulip folio
Yeah, while 2e sorta laid out 'here is how you do it, here is the mechanical benefits from it, you get to be Solar++ in the edition where Solars are already Everyone Else++'
velvet raft
It's like, "yeah, if you and your GM find this idea compelling, you could make it the focus of a story, but we're explicitly choosing not to detail it in any way or answer any questions"
dense verge
realizing my dynast character is a sidereal and my dragonblood character is my lunar, and my lunar is somehow an infernal kind of
velvet raft
I think that's where I'd want it
prisma sun
I would just want example story beats thay would let you switch
bleak hazel
a funny thing about how 2e did it was that theoretically the way to cure the Great Curse was to abyssalize and then redeem every single solar
just dunk them in the neverborn juice
20 minute villain arc, go on, you know you want to
tulip folio
'We got a 90s comic writer to design your training arc'
velvet raft
But personally I would rather see Abyssals and Infernals shaping themselves to some extent, rather than just scrubbing down their souls and transforming
"There are certain foundational things that can't be changed, but you can change a lot of other things and decide what any and all of it means"
There's a trans metaphor in there somewhere maybe
bleak hazel
I have always wondered what the Sidereal version of infernal devil-tiger, abyssal rebellion, lunar chimerism or alchemical turning-into-a-city would be if they had one, not that they should
velvet raft
IMO it's SMA
bleak hazel
one day the old sifu cuts himself trimming his beard and there's only a starscape under the skin
velvet raft
And in it being SMA, Sidereals have both the narrowest and the broadest weirdening
bleak hazel
I like the idea that becoming sufficiently Enlightened does wierd stuff to you, honestly, and I also like the idea that this tends to not affect how these people behave
before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water
velvet raft
... I almost want to write-up this "no or very few Solars" idea but there's not even much to write
With the exception of Bull of the North, you can cut present-day Solars out of the setting with basically no lore changes
Which, you know, does feel kinda damning
mighty rover
one (1) sidebar and a novella
velvet raft
I do feel like you can't exactly do it without Infernals being available
Or, that it wouldn't feel quite right?
To me, at least
bleak hazel
And in it being SMA, Sidereals have both the narrowest and the broadest weirdeni...
this makes sense, but I feel that for that to be true you would want some Strange Bullshit to happen to sufficiently old Sidereals absent the actual martial arts themselves (because Solars can do all of those)
velvet raft
God I hope Infernals are good
mighty rover
i hope infernals are evil
velvet raft
this makes sense, but I feel that for that to be true you would want some Strang...
Part of the reason I never objected to Infernals Getting Strange was that one BoKL charm
The one where you become a small primordial for the duration
And can explicitly just tell gods what to do
But yeah, I would be fine with Extremely Old Sids having some of that weirdness become more permanent
Not even necessarily in the sense of powers but like
An ancient Emerald Gyre master starts stuttering in time and doing minor, inconsequential loops
That sort of thing
tulip folio
I could see really old sids Becoming Part of Fate. Just sorta unwinding into a Decision Upon The World that not even the maidens could undo. Not really a player character any more but they've left a mark that can't be undone to the fundemental nature of reality itself.
velvet raft
If a sid dies a natural death they're reincarnated as a Pattern Spider XD
(This never happens)
bleak hazel
secretly near-omnipotent pattern spider
velvet raft
(Because sids live fuckin' forever)
tulip folio
Sid Book Expansion, tell me how to Parry Saturn!
velvet raft
5,000 years is a long time
bleak hazel
the gets send one of their unknown pattern spiders into the loom and it encounters the new incarnation of Chejop, who died peacefully the previous night
velvet raft
Yes actually
tulip folio
'Why is this pattern spider such an asshole?'
velvet raft
I'd love "Chejop dies peacefully in his bed and achieves arachnid enlightenment"
"Still kinda a jerk tho"
bleak hazel
Sid Book Expansion, tell me how to Parry Saturn!
we'll get our dozen-odd generic martial arts and one SMA and like it, apparently
no sid unique stuff in the expansion
velvet raft
Wait only one SMA?
velvet raft
When you said there would be seven before, were you talking about Getimians?
Aha
Tragic
What's the deal with Sapphire Veil?
bleak hazel
I do think "the sid expansion is just the scroll of the monk 2" kind of shortchanges them
tulip folio
...I guess that means I'm not getting my 'SMA that can work with Sword Martial Arts' I've been wanting
velvet raft
For that
bleak hazel
Sapphire Veil used to be Sid Socialize but more so
velvet raft
...I guess that means I'm not getting my 'SMA that can work with Sword Martial A...
You know what's fun, tho? Seven-Section Staff Sid
tulip folio
Let me make Sid Swordmasters who do Wuxia Bullshit, exalted! Not every sid needs to punch people!
velvet raft
VBOS, Crane, and Centipede all use seven-section staff
tulip folio
Yeah but this character is a swordmaster.
bleak hazel
these days it's "gender and sexuality" which is a bit more subtle than the old version, "sex, mostly BDSM"
velvet raft
Aye, just thinkin'
There's also a rad sorcery-focused seven-section staff in the sid book
bleak hazel
crane unfortunately does not use the 7SS or I'd go Crane into Charcoal March rather than wrestling with this build for ages
velvet raft
Oh does Charcoal March also use it?
tulip folio
I might just bully the GM into giving me access to the old 2e 'Just add a new form weapon to an existing martial art' charms ;P
velvet raft
Honestly just saying "whatsherface Enlightenment works the way you'd intuitively expect" is probably fine in terms of balance
bleak hazel
charcoal does
CMOS is also probably the cleanest SMA to use straight up
decently mote efficient, very flexible, lots of shenanigans
velvet raft
VBOS and Centipede have some fun synergies with Emerald Gyre
bleak hazel
PAOC is good but you tend to have a decent amount of dead wood unless you're doing something very particular
(hello, Black Claw)
velvet raft
The ultimate VBOS charm enhancing the form charm is tragic tho
bleak hazel
Black Claw/PAOC is both an ungodly-good combo and has some interesting narrative implications
I have wormed my way into Creation's heart
velvet raft
I mean very nice if you're an essence 5 PAOC master since VBOS form is really strong
But
Most of the game is not played as an Essence 5 PAOC master
bleak hazel
yeah there are a lot of styles that are a bit sad until you hit E5
crane is the one giving me trouble right now
Black Claw especially loves life because it doesn't have form equipment, doesn't care about its form charm and loves the effects of all four PAOC subforms
velvet raft
I just couldn't vibe with Black Claw, ultimately
mighty rover
noooooo
bleak hazel
black claw/paoc is really strong
because soulfire makes Doe Eyes mote-neutral
you can just slam people into the ground with it
velvet raft
It's got some very specific thematic elements that I wish I could work my way around
chilly sluice
not into the gaslighting?
velvet raft
Yeeeah
tulip folio
Silly Pondering: thousand blades + wood dragon master. Surrounded by a half dozen floating longbows...entirely a melee combatant.
velvet raft
I have a hard time imagining creating a character who felt right with it
chilly sluice
I love Black Claw for it personally
it's such an incredibly fun style thematically
but it can be hard to make that fit into a character I suppose yeah
velvet raft
Silly Pondering: thousand blades + wood dragon master. Surrounded by a half doze...
Wood Dragon has the potential to be crazy with Sid melee since you can bonk someone and then you just get free Aim at them forever
You don't even have to go that deep into the style
And you can do some shit like put it on Instructive Strike, which is Versatile
chilly sluice
is combining Thousand Blades and Single Point anything btw?
been considering it for a character
bleak hazel
well, you'll be a god of death, if that matters
you don't get 1kblades form though, because SP Form is just silly and you want it all the time
tulip folio
Clearly if I'm bitching about there being no sma sword styles I should write one. XD
fierce star
I arise from the depths of fighter jock thoughts
sapient warstrider (has a god inside it) who's tired of not having a pilot they jive with, prays for an exigence and gets one
"Is it an evocation for the warstrider or is it an exigent charm?"
tulip folio
Could go full sword nutter and make it a SMA based on emptiness/nothingness. Or maybe Distance?
chilly sluice
you don't get 1kblades form though, because SP Form is just silly and you want i...
which, IIRC the main thing you miss out on for not being in 1kBlades Form is the capstone and a somewhat harder time using Daiklave Wings?
velvet raft
Clearly if I'm bitching about there being no sma sword styles I should write one...
If you wanted to base it on something for inspiration, you could try doing Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield
prisma sun
... I almost want to write-up this "no or very few Solars" idea but there's not ...
I actually think there's a write up for it already
fierce star
... actually I'm liking this idea for an exigent
bleak hazel
benefit of my existing sid using what's basically a longsword-sized jian is that I can stunt basically all my fucking around in battle with various Liechtenauer guards
time to kill fae
tulip folio
If you wanted to base it on something for inspiration, you could try doing Scarl...
I'd need to double check it's deal
velvet raft
Insofar as all SMAs are imitation styles of extremely heady stuff, SPB was sort of about imitating war
It also had a lot of Gateway metaphors iirc?
fierce star
Hmm. A sapient warstrider is probably artifact 5. but it seems silly to pay merit points for 'the thing that exalted you'
bleak hazel
a sapient warstrider is almost certainly N/A, as are the other "royal" warstriders
Janest gets her scythe built-in to the exaltation, there's precedent
velvet raft
A lot of stuff for ultra-fast movement in SPB, notably
And aye, we have a sapient warstrider in Arms
And it's N/A
fierce star
That's fair. Do you think a celestial-tier exalt with a sapient warstrider who's power is tied to that warstrider (I'm thinking either essence-based, or ability based on like 'craft, war, occult, melee' and their choice of brawl, archeyr, or thrown) would be too much? The intent would be they can use charms outside of it, they're not helpless outside of their sugar daddy patron but they are reduced in power.
velvet raft
Warstriders are very interesting, because they are appropriately extraordinarily powerful but you essentially need facilities and a maintenance crew for them which make them kind of a narrative focus
Like you can't just have a Warstrider, in most contexts, you have to Be The Warstrider Guy
You're kinda paying a narrative cost for incredible power in a way that is compelling but not really suitable to a lot of games, I think
fierce star
Mmm, well when the whole point of the exaltation is 'Is The Warstrider Guy', presumably you'd play it in a game where that is suitable
niche concepts aren't a bad thing
velvet raft
Yeah!
But I mean it's hard to say what is and isn't "too much" in that context
Because now we're in a mecha anime >_<
bleak hazel
Most exalts who could conceivably maintain or build a warstrider would be worthless warstrider pilots, so this is an interesting way to shortcut that
fierce star
THe Chosen of Striders is resonant with warstriders, artifact siege weaponry, and artifact weaponry scaled for warstriders. They are neutral with artifact weaponry and armor at personal scale, and dissonant with all other artifacts.
oh wait, it's athltics, right. so probably go with Athletics, War, Occult, Craft, and pick a combat ability for caste?
well, caste equivalent
velvet raft
Huh, Citrine Poxes, Charcoal March and Obsidian Shards are all compatible with Unweaving Method
There's some potential there
fierce star
right, repairing a warstrider costs craft XP
... a major project that costs silver, not white... but majors already cost silver...?
oh well i'll assume it's just Editting (TM). So 10 silver per health level.
I feel like there will be some charms for this exigent that's just baseline 'do a ritual, repair your sugar daddy'
I dunno, maybe skipping the rigamarole misses the point
velvet raft
OH MY GOD
mighty rover
WHAT
wise ocean
Thank you Sid Linguistics, another banger
next delta
And aye, we have a sapient warstrider in Arms
Can it control itself without a pilot? Because if so, "god creates a pilot exigent, but in the process loses the ability to pilot the warstrider itself" would be fun and maybe an excuse to knock it down from N/A tier (though I guess getting it with the exaltation is a way around that problem too)
wise ocean
The connection it once had to the machine is now embodied in the exigent and their link
If the exigent died, presumably this capability might return to the god, but it's anyone's guess
bleak hazel
I wonder if a god created by a Sidereal has ever produced an Exigent
"this is not how exalted family trees are meant to work!"
fierce star
Karvara (aforementioned sapient warstrider) can only pilot itself when it's pilot limit breaks inside it
otherwise it's imprisoned inside it's own flesh and would really like to escape
bleak hazel
thinly veiled EVA-01, yeah
velvet raft
It's also much smaller! /s
But yeah Karvara is an ancient entity of pure chaos/entropy, transformed into a Warstrider.
It ain't happy about that.
fierce star
... I have a funny idea
of the god of this warstrider being a celestial deity who actually liked their position; they weren't just a warstrider god, they were the God of Warstriders, and made a bet against the God of (Infantry? Cavalry?) that warstriders were teh superior method of warfighting, and decided to put their money where their mouth was and have themselves placed in a warstrider of exquisite design.
And then the Usurpation happened, and, well, they were a Solar loyalist, so a few sidereals very quietly made sure he'd be trapped on creation until such a time he was no longer a problem... and oh, what do you know, warstriders hav ebeen banned in yu-shan and no sorcerers are avaliable to actually extract you from the shell! What a terrible thing, we'll put the request in the queue and get you back in your office as soon as we can...
mm, maybe too much
prisma sun
I do think the God of warstriders is like simultaneously out of shape but coasting by on an absolutely legendary reputation
velvet raft
Oh, hey, another seven-section staff style: Mantis
upper stratus
they love tossing seven-section staffs onto styles
velvet raft
I think it's between seven-section staff and razor claws for most styles
Snake, VBOS, Centipede, Mantis, Emerald Gyre, and Charcoal March all have seven-section staff
Mantis probably kinda sucks for it due to the grappling focus, though
bleak hazel
I am wondering what I want to use for the redsid I'm running in Bees' game
I was originally going crane because I love crane, but it's so awkward at lower essence
you don't get the form till E2 and you struggle to get into SMAs in an orderly fashion
and going pure MA for a redsid kinda sucks because at that point you have three caste abilities doing sweet FA
velvet raft
Hm. Real lack of good Terrestrial spells for close-range combat.
bleak hazel
you're basically on Wood Dragon's Claw and that's your lot
but sorcery is not really known for making you good at swords
velvet raft
Oh I mean blasting spells usable at close range. I'm playing around with the seven-section staff in the Sid book that makes that more viable
Death of Obsidian Butterflies or Unslakable Thirst would both be straightforward picks ...
mighty rover
why are there rules for cholera and rabies
chilly sluice
for mortals to get them
velvet raft
why are there rules for cholera and rabies
There are also rules for syphilis!
mighty rover
I saw them!
velvet raft
The answer, imo, is one-half "because the game is absurdly rules maximalist at times", and is one-half "because they wanted the disease system to be sufficiently robust for medicine solars to have a game to play"
mighty rover
you know what that does make sense
bleak hazel
didn't really work, because Solar Medicine could frankly handle everything published with an excellency and a dream and there's no rules for what happens when you roll 40 successes to cure cholera, but it was a nice thought
velvet raft
A lot of the subsystems that are supposed to make particular abilities have stuff to do are underbaked
(Sail)
bleak hazel
it also provides some coherent mechanical grounding to the setting - this is a human place with human-scale problems for the most part, you're more likely to catch dysentery than Magic Bone-Plague
bleak hazel
there are also rules for bleeding out that Exalts just straight up aren't subject to
next delta
They can only die from "extremely potent magical diseases". I think normal poisons can hypothetically kill an exalted though 🤔
And I guess technically the game has rules for playing as mortals
velvet raft
Exalted Healing lets you run on action hero rules
Otherwise, you run on “aaaaaaaaaaah” rules
mighty rover
aaaaaaaaaaaahction hero
tulip folio
Yeah, normal poisons kill an exalt just fine.
That stamina 2, resistance 1 twilight can 100% die if you dump a heap of poison in his beer.
bleak hazel
"I need to get some yozi venom" is the kind of thing you should be saying frequently as any self-respecting socialite
binding demons to go fetch some is theoretically quite doable, at least
velvet raft
Oh wow that is a pretty strong social effect
tulip folio
Yeah, that is sorta made me go 'Hmm...maybe this Sid Witch should be Serenity, not Secrets'. XD
velvet raft
Tragically the Order of Optimization on this character is probably Battles < Serenity < Journeys < Secrets < Endings
tulip folio
...I'll admit, I'm not sure what makes Journeys and Secrets really shine.
velvet raft
Journeys getting Thrown and Resistance gives them a good baseline
Ride and Sail are tragically much more character-specific but their movement action/escape anima effect also seems pretty handy
coral wraith
...I'll admit, I'm not sure what makes Journeys and Secrets really shine.
In terms of anima or abilities?
velvet raft
Secrets is well-positioned to do Sorcery, to do Sneaky Shit, to do certain kinds of social stuff, and also Lore and Occult are relevant to a couple of SMAs
Investigation/Lore/Occult/Stealth/Larceny is a pretty good lineup imo
For the right sorts of character, anyway
I've been on a sorcery kick recently so
bleak hazel
ride has Yellow Path, which is always fun
double speed Stormwind Rider
cloud moving very fast
velvet raft
Oh and there's a Secrets charm that lets you substitute your highest Secrets ability for Integrity and Socialize in Resolve and Guile
bleak hazel
yeah, nerdsids are very efficient, although if you rely solely on that your Read Intentions kinda sucks
and that's one of those really important actions
velvet raft
IMO the Resolve thing is more valuable
Plus Larceny has a Wyld-protection charm so who needs Integrity :D
Also I feel like getting that bonus to Manipulation - just all manipulation rolls, unspecified - is kinda strong!
I do think it's interesting how much "everybody gets Martial Arts as a Caste ability" does to ease the pressure on covering all your essentials
coral wraith
Greater Sign of Jupiter also goes insane
bleak hazel
white veil is actually fun here because it allows you to roll manip + socialize as Join Battle for the purpose of ambushing people
although my favourite martial art for non-battles/endings Sids will always be Black Claw
sid black claw just goes insanely hard
velvet raft
All of the Greater Signs are pretty strong, it's just Endings is by far the sexiest one for combat
Serenity can just Shut Down A Fight, though
bleak hazel
I honestly far prefer Mars for combat, Endings is a little loose for how expensive it is
the non-combat greater signs are the really big ones IMO
velvet raft
Put everyone in the time-out corner
No rolls
Extremely difficult to resist in any form
bleak hazel
the big thing for Sids is that if you have two decent-essence Sids and they pop both GSOM and GSOS you can now just blow up the entire world
everyone can now just go insane and decisive constantly
velvet raft
Yep
bleak hazel
Anys Syn is the obvious candidate because it doesn't cap at 5
if that woman pops Soulfire Form and then uses GSOM then everyone's base initiative becomes 12
velvet raft
Hah! True, and Soul Fire Shaper form would also affect - yeah
bleak hazel
power attack, power attack, power attack
it's like Star Trek over here with all the double fist knockout blows
(it's still very good at E2 or so, it just gets very funny with elders)
velvet raft
And then Endings lets everyone tell Hardness to fuck off and improves target numbers
bleak hazel
also another case of "wow, exalts are nuts when they team up"
velvet raft
So those decisives hit like a bus
bleak hazel
because your average E3-ish Dawn who gets hit by these now has base init 14
velvet raft
Even off of just 12
bleak hazel
which is 7 levels of damage with the TN reduction, ignoring hardness
you can now just walk up to humans and kill them with one punch over and over and over again
velvet raft
You can walk up to Exalts and do that
spring lynx
baldness optional but encouraged
bleak hazel
well, exalts are going to have a bit more health on average, but yeah, you can get close
I could see a mixed circle deliberately orchestrating a giant stupid fuckoff battle because the bigger the battle gets the more stuff they could kill in Domain Expansion mode
next delta
This is why they wanted to fight all of the Solars during calibration
coral wraith
Anyway @tulip folio the thing with Secrets is they are indeed good at like, uncovering and hiding things, but they're also shockingly good manipulators - Lore, Larceny, Occult, Stealth all let you fuck with people in various ways
spring lynx
send to literally the entire Realm: Come to Gem in 2 seasons if u want an ass beating
velvet raft
Occult borders on necessary for dealing with spirits, but it is quite good for dealing with spirits
bleak hazel
presumably by endings sid in crow form
spring lynx
sids can animorph now too?
velvet raft
Bah you can't use martial arts in crow form :P
spring lynx
man i have missed a lot of shit
velvet raft
There's not a ton they can do with it, either
bleak hazel
bird up
spring lynx
can i get a page ref
bleak hazel
bottom right of 296
"Feathered Cloak Trick"
copies the basic rules of Lunar Shapeshifting (and the difficulty of spotting the tell, actually) but not any of the other useful stuff
spring lynx
huh. i never looked into awareness much i guess.
next delta
... do Crows even exist in Creation?
bleak hazel
evidently
velvet raft
Technically this is a raiton
bleak hazel
it can be any corvid, as mentioned
spring lynx
most earth animals exist in creation
velvet raft
Which is a crowlike feathered reptile
next delta
Or is it like, a specific raiton
bleak hazel
tulip folio
Hey, just a thing: We're trying to avoid twitter links, even ones filtered through another site.
velvet raft
Oh wait no it uses raiton stats
bleak hazel
ah, fair enough
spring lynx
yeah it uses raiton stats but you actually take the form of a corvid
next delta
They are cowards for not calling the constellation the Raiton
velvet raft
Raiton imagery is pretty common with Endings
It would be funny to do Unweaving Method Shenanigans with crow form
bleak hazel
I know of at least one person who played a god of birds using the Sid rules once doing exactly that
velvet raft
You wouldn't be able to do ranged martial arts but you could do thrown or archery
spring lynx
Become Decidueye
bleak hazel
he sold himself as the "god of bird speech" but what the Old Realm actually translated to was "God of Bird [Human Language]", making him considerably less impressive than he was making himself out to be
"god of teaching parrots funny words" rather than "god of birdsong"
velvet raft
Hm. Was thinking of switching this character to Battles but I have one too few Favored abilities for that
bleak hazel
join the club
crane style boy is probably not going to be crane style boy because it is Very Annoying to go pure MA on battles
you're 3 abilities down
I already have one Sid Meleeist, although Sid Melee is really good
velvet raft
Unfortunately can't use it with hook swords or seven section staves
prisma sun
Funny thing you can do as Journeys btw
Run up using charcoal spider March as high as you can go
Congrats you can now instant kill with your greater sign (as long as they can't fly)
spring lynx
abusing fall damage is always fun
bleak hazel
Unfortunately can't use it with hook swords or seven section staves
go grab yourself Holistic Arsenal Methodology if you want some versatile charms from melee
Harmony of Blows is a kicker
there's a good Onslaught one too
prisma sun
Drifts uses this technique on the same spot so there's just a pile of anime protagonists in the middle of the desert somewhere
Every few years another one just falls from the sky like Peggy Hill
velvet raft
Oh huh didn't see that charm
Fuuuuck that gives me an excellent reason to switch to Secrets or Endings
prisma sun
I do find it very funny
That sids more than anyone are expected to have Canon characters as mentors
bleak hazel
remember you can buy Maiden charms whenever you want, they're just non-favoured for different castes
prisma sun
Cuz like
bleak hazel
and if you take them in your chargen allotment they cost no more for you than for [maiden's caste]
velvet raft
Yeah, it's just that I don't have melee as favored as is
bleak hazel
I believe we have statblocks for about 40% of Sids, including the ones in the companion
prisma sun
Yeah and then add in rakan and his circle and the player circle
bleak hazel
Yeah, it's just that I don't have melee as favored as is
you can pull the same trick there, if you don't want the one good versatile charm from Melee that's above E1
prisma sun
Bam
bleak hazel
(Inner Eye Strike)
prisma sun
Half of them
velvet raft
I'm also pretty completely full up on charms
It would be a plans for the future thing
I guess I could drop Athletics or something
bleak hazel
meh, probably unimportant
you can always pay non-favoured costs for a charm or two, it's not the end of the world
velvet raft
I dunno if I'd even take athletics charms anyway
bleak hazel
yeah, I would focus on favouring stuff you want charms in rather than just dots
paying somewhere between 2 and 5 extra XP and a bit more training time to max out an ability you had at 0-3 and didn't favour is not too tricky
spring lynx
I dunno if I'd even take athletics charms anyway
but Hungry Touch...
velvet raft
Yeah looking at it I think Burn Life and its followup may be the only Athletics charms that seem very compelling to me
The plan is to take so many martial arts and also a bunch of sorcery so
tulip folio
What SMAs have yet to make a return in 3e?
bleak hazel
a lot
hang on
Sapphire Veil of Passion (Sid Companion)
Border of Kaleidoscopic Logic
Quicksilver Hand of Dreams
Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield
Get book also has Amethyst Edge of Severance, Amaranthine Chains of Samsara and something called Chimerical [Rest of Name Not Known], which I believe are all new
the latter of which is hinted to be Rakan's super secret style of cool that presumably is only known to gets, because apparently everyone has a super secret mega style these days
wise ocean
it's an old trope, to be fair
bleak hazel
to be fair if anyone has one it should be him
if you cannot defeat the oldest master and steal his kung fu what are you really doing here
tulip folio
I'll need to look into them (I am looking for previous edition SMAs that could accept a sword)
velvet raft
the latter of which is hinted to be Rakan's super secret style of cool that pres...
It would be very funny if Anys Syn specifically didn't because she teaches everything she comes up with but can still beat anyone because she just knows more
Lady has no martial secrets, she's just been training harder than you
bleak hazel
I'll need to look into them (I am looking for previous edition SMAs that could a...
I don't actually think there were any apart from Sapphire Veil, which takes urumi ribbon-swords
tulip folio
Which is Another Special Weapon, not connected to existing ones.
bleak hazel
It would be very funny if Anys Syn specifically didn't because she teaches every...
And now I see that planning doesn't matter. Strategy doesn't matter. Only two things matter: Force in as great a concentration as you can manage, and style. And in a pinch, style can slide.
you know, I think I've only seen this in fiction once because it's really bad storytelling most of the time, but I have a real soft spot for fights that are decided purely because one person is Just Better
velvet raft
I've seen it here and there
But it has to be used in moderation and only with specific characters
Often one-off characters
bleak hazel
not clever tricks or raw strength or having one more layer of superpowers, they've just been doing it for ages and they are just going to methodically beat you into the ground even if you can do everything they can
velvet raft
There's an episode of Outlaw Star that does this
bleak hazel
I think there's one star wars book that had a good one
Ventress vs Jai Maruk, where Maruk ascends to a higher plane of martial enlightenment mid-fight and then Ventress just kills him anyway
it's written very well
velvet raft
Where the team fights a legendary assassin, and he just sort of beats everyone because ... he's just that good, and only through their combined efforts do they manage to kill him ... and then when they've left, he gets up, dusts himself off, and mentions that this is his ticket out of the evil antagonist organization
Faking his death against the heroes
bleak hazel
never seen it done by a hero, now that I think about it
not a very heroic way to win fights
John Wick gets about 2/3 of the way (and would be much worse if he also got the subsequent 1/3)
tulip folio
Where the team fights a legendary assassin, and he just sort of beats everyone b...
Helps that he doesn't even have any Weird Tricks.
Literally every thing he does is a piece of pretty normal bounty hunter gear we've seen the protagonists use.
He's just Really Fucking Good with them
velvet raft
It's not clear he's even "better" with his sword than Setsuna in terms of technical skill, but he can outfight her because he just sort of can
tulip folio
Sensuna iirc was a bit crook with food poisoning that episode, which is her excuse for getting bodied.
As she's the person who normally wins things due to 'Yeah, I'm just Better Than You'
bleak hazel
I suppose in Exalted this is the Imperial Legions
they have more stuff than you, they train better than you, they have better logistics than you and if they really need it they will keep calling more elemental demigods until you roll over and die
(Solar Tiger Warrior bullshit excepted)
velvet raft
I think the trope feels craziest when it's just sort of inexplicable
bleak hazel
I feel you can earn it, and it's good, but it requires a bit of generosity from the reader
velvet raft
Oh! I do know a heroic example
mighty rover
what is this prokopetz post referring to
velvet raft
Yama, in Lord of Light
bleak hazel
very good mounts, they're a popular First Circle for summoners
mighty rover
incredible
velvet raft
He's The Best At Fighting not in any way you can strictly explain, but just because well
He's Yama
bleak hazel
bleak hazel
these days they're Appearance 5/5, and don't actually have a dice pool for seduction
but they do have a couple of abilities that amount to "I'm too pretty for you to kill me"
velvet raft
Lord of Light has some Exalted vibes, thinking about it
bleak hazel
I will have to have a look at it
velvet raft
One of my favorite books
bleak hazel
I suppose you could collect lots of heroic examples from your average xianxia, which is 1500 chapters of the hero stomping everyone, but those aren't actually good
velvet raft
The basic pitch is that it's a sci-fi Buddhist parable
The story of a very old psychic from lost Earth, whose fellows have set themselves up as the Hindu gods, and who decides to oppose them
fierce star
Agatae are one of my favorite first-circle demons, and IMO having one is an important part of any Basic Demonologist Kit
an agatae, some sesseljae, a perronelles, a couple of neomah and a half-dozen blood apes
mighty rover
can't leave home without some blood apes
fierce star
unfortuantely ssesseljae and peronelles don't have stats in ex3
despite being like, some of the most popular and utilitarian first circles???
admittedly they wouldn't be, I think, particularly difficult things to handle. Peronelles can be treated as light armor with the concealable and silent tag (or maybe medium?), sesseljae give some sort of non-charm bonus dice on rolls to resist poison and disease.
prisma sun
Funnily enough in the white room battle I did of King Hu vs Octavian I think Octavian wins if he has his Agatae
But loses without it
fierce star
I do still want to play my dragonblooded sorcerer who is unofficially married to her agatae
spending that much time around such a pretty thing, you know, things happen
spring lynx
i feel like you should probably not the demonic crystal wasp
fierce star
I mean nothing wrong with demons
they're just dudes/gals
a little weird, but who ain't?
fierce star
Like, it's culturally not particularly welcomed, but when a summoner and their familiar love each other very much, you get into arguements over coercion due to how demon binding works
coral wraith
unfortuantely ssesseljae and peronelles don't have stats in ex3
What are they
bleak hazel
Peronelles are Living Armour, they gloop over you like a Lancer sylph suit except they have a couple of mildly disturbing eyes
fierce star
They're pretty good about blending in as long as they're not panicking
bleak hazel
Ssesseljae are demonic rubbish collectors/surgeons, they can "swim" through flesh by making themselves sort-of-intangible and neatly absorb poisons or seal wounds
you generally summon one and have it live in your stomach, where it will make you immune to most toxins and can heal you when required
hence the nickname, "stomach bottle bugs"
just remember to instruct them to hop out once they're full, because at that point they undergo mitosis and the new ones won't be bound
(which doesn't mean they'll hurt you, but it is generally a bit of a pain to banish them and get a new one)
some of the best demonic lads
fierce star
And the best way to keep them happy is to just drink
stomach bottle bugs love alcohol
if they're not working, they're drinking
bleak hazel
you'll stay sober, too
fierce star
just don't drink substances of particular purity--tears, seawater, silver, gold, salt and virgin's blood are all allergens to them.
presumably the salt needs to be particularly concentrated
prisma sun
fuck man but I love drinking virgin blood
fierce star
lunars and abyssals tbh
bleak hazel
oh yeah they still have the vamp fangs as standard kit
fierce star
and the ability to get essence with 'em
coral wraith
Oh, stomach bottle bugs are in Ex3, a nasty Solar boy in Adversaries has one as a familiar
fierce star
oh shit
prisma sun
Adversaries?
bleak hazel
to be fair I do appreciate that one of the two adversary Solars is just getting owned by a demon
purely my anti-golden boy bias, though
if I was going to use this guy I'd probably add some stats to him because he is kind of squishy for an E3 solaroid
prisma sun
what the fuck u meman sings him to sleep
bleak hazel
bug friend
fierce star
double checked adversaries and hundred devils; still no official ex3 perroneles stats, which is unfortunately
prisma sun
from your own mouth?
sleep on your stomach and this bug coming out of your butthole to sing baa baa black sheep
fierce star
I mean they can just dig out of you
from anywhere
their whole thing is they swim through flesh like water without harming people
just pops out of your shoulder and goes ''ey boss Id on't trusts this guy'
(the malfean accent is Generic New Englander Thug)
prisma sun
🤢
bleak hazel
yeah, I am pretty sure he literally sits inside his head, hence "watching out the back of his skull"
the bug's intangible unless he wants to be, it's fine
coral wraith
what the fuck u meman sings him to sleep
it's nice!!!
prisma sun
x carding actually i cannot really put into words how uncomfortable "bugs carwling just under your skin" is to me
i'll just bounce
bleak hazel
time to go look up what all those merits actually do
coral wraith
time to go look up what all those merits actually do
Some +dice vs toxins and disease, iirc
tulip folio
Free Exalted Healing for mortal sorcerers is a big deal.
bleak hazel
-2 difficulty on rolls against disease, +2 dice against poisons, some misc. benefits against food poisoning, can't get drunk
worth
summoning new lad forthwith
fierce star
That's also true, iki
bleak hazel
I don't think we have 3e stats for Teodozjia yet, I hope we get some in the Infernals book
because the psycho ranger celestial lions are a personal favourite even if they're too damn inconvenient to summon much of the time
tepid flower
There is a best familiar choice, even though it cannot be summoned
The Unicorn
Appearance 5? Resolve 5? Guile 5? Major Intimacy of pride in itself? What more can you ask for!
tulip folio
Let's go to the imperial mountain charlie!
fierce star
That's Luminata for me, misc
prisma sun
https://tenor.com/view/prehistoric-planet-season-2-dinosaur-pterosaur-t-rex-gif-14013559383979074699
bleak hazel
I don't think I know those?
fierce star
I love the deer that hunt men
prisma sun
BEST FAMILIAR
fierce star
they're worms that walk but in deer form
bleak hazel
there are a lot of first circles honestly, they're great to just make
need a new kind of slightly odd guy? first circle
fierce star
spring lynx
you know, maybe i've been listening to the frieren OP too much but i've been thinking about a sidereal who's on semi-permanent sabbatical because he realized a few decades back that he doesn't know shit about creation, or himself, anymore
bleak hazel
oh hey Octavian has kids
tepid flower
Good for him!
fierce star
i had an NPC in an exalted game who was a demonblooded of a luminata who had ascended to second circle status
bleak hazel
the Teodozjia are great because I'm pretty sure they're an extended reference to that one poem that's just one syllable over and over again
fierce star
she hated her dad becuase the way he loved her was hunting her down and telling her she needs to be better
"Not good enough, daughter. Do it again." on repeat
they're not like, super USEFUL demons, but you know, part of the tookit all thes ame
and yeah Teodozjia are great like that
bleak hazel
it's kind of hard to actually use Teos for anything because they tend to get distracted doing big boy malfeas stuff
and if you're mean to them when they knock over the local shrine and start trying to make everything into burning brass the lion hive mind will remember
prisma sun
my favorite demons are the balls
dense verge
murder cloud
bleak hazel
there are so many good first circles, I also love Tomescu
fierce star
the cloud arsenals are great
bleak hazel
they're really fighty, I've been impressed with their performance before
they're like Blood Ape tier, since they actually have ranged attacks
just kind of loud and that can be a bit of a pain
fierce star
I was in an ex2 game once and I wanted to summon up some Tomescu to help us deal with some mortal problems
so, you know, spend a week summoning them
... I got two that didn't scream.
needless to say I was veyr, VERY worried.
bleak hazel
you are either very lucky or very unlucky
prisma sun
those are the bug clouds right
fierce star
They're the 'cloud of fog with a bunch of weapons' demon
prisma sun
and also bugs
dense verge
theres a bugmn somewhere in the cloud
prisma sun
dense verge
lots of arms
prisma sun
big bug guy
fierce star
ah, they changed that in ex3
bleak hazel
they don't like fighting, due to their knowledge of violent ends
they are, however, very good at it
prisma sun
I love how much it sucks to be a demon tbh
fierce star
in ex2 it was one in ten thousand is silent, and of those, 99 are because of physical or mental trauma, and 1 is because it has accepted the glorious end it will have and is looking forward to it
i htink I like the ex3 fluff more tbh
bleak hazel
if you don't mind the fact they're an alarm clock, presumably because you have a cool sorceror tower in the middle of nowhere, they're very useful and quite easy to get along with
they will occasionally just do random things, though
tepid flower
A tomescu must scream at dawn and dusk when it glimpses its own demise, which obviates stealth.
I'm always saying this
wise ocean
Who doesn't scream at dawn and dusk when they glimpse their own demise tbh
prisma sun
I feel like
the God of the entire Ocean should be one of the biggest gods in the setting
spring lynx
the elemental dragons are indeed quite large
spring lynx
oh i meant like, physically
prisma sun
Well the elemental dragons aren't gods
I mean like the guy in Yu-Shan who's job is "I am the entire ocean"
"Since we only have one"
spring lynx
i don't think there is one of those, i'm pretty sure it's like, partitioned
bleak hazel
It's more "I oversee the entire ocean", but if such a god existed they would be pretty huge
dense verge
i think the guy that made the Spoken used to be like, ocean incarna. then he died at some point. talked about obliquely in the Essence companion book thats new
bleak hazel
Died of Exaltation induced sore throat
dense verge
local god hid in trench, whale people asked him for help, burned out giving them exaltations
lost incarnae is a fun concept
limpid badge
The pole-dragons are Gaia’s Third Circle aren’t they?
fierce star
No, they're elementals, which are explicitly not gaia's devas
limpid badge
Oh, I thought Elementals were her soul-courts
fierce star
no, they're something unique and special to creation (metody don't count) (autokuns are replicas)
prisma sun
I thought demons didn't get Circles until after the whole yozi thing
mighty rover
i need some fandom history
the story as I've been told it is that 3e's core systems are very cool, but the Solar charms are bad
this feels like a pretty glaring flaw for your start of your gameline
so how did... 3e survive that, i guess
prisma sun
The solar charms are becoming worse over time as more and better books come out
For one
For two like half the books got funded before 3e core was even out
fierce star
No, the soul hierarchy of the primordials has always been in the three circle formula
autochthon has the same thing
mighty rover
For two like half the books got funded before 3e core was even out
huh i guess there's some advantages there
prisma sun
As far as I know even though the core charms are wack the core rules are the best they've been
fierce star
yes
absolutely true
I've played all three editions of exalted and ex3 is the best it has ever been, full stop, no notes
mighty rover
I see I see
i'm curious how much like
playing a different splat is just playing a different game
AIUI Essence is designed for that not to be the case
but 3e proper i'm getting that vibe
prisma sun
The core rules are the same
I think the best analogy is like
Imagine it as different factions in an rts
They may play WAY different but they are all basically doing the same things
dense verge
ex3 has acceptable bones when compared to previous editions
there are stress points
but it is leagues better than 2e and prior
solars do have sick bones though
prisma sun
It is the only storyteller system with a focus on combat that I think does it well enough to justify its presence
tulip folio
Pondering if something is too mean.
A SMA charm that lets you cut down other charms. Picking an ongoing effect and ending it.
tulip folio
Heartbeat Destination Slash
Cost: 4m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 3
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Dual, Enlightenment
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The fundamental precept of Amethyst Eyes of Division is that everything must end. There is no journey without a destination and no traveler who's path does not cease. Drawing on this death of distance, she slashes down the path before her to hasten its end.
This supplements an attack against a character within medium range. The martial artist is immediately placed in Close Range with the target before the attack. This is not movement and ignores any obstacles between the martial artist and the target, as the very concept of distance is chopped down by her blade. If her attack roll exceeds her target’s Guile, it becomes a Surprise Attack. The first time in a scene she uses this to enhance an Attack, it becomes an Ambush.
Alternatively, this can be used to supplement a movement action. If she does so, she is immediately placed in the final location of that movement action, ignoring all obstacles in the way and allowing her to travel to places that would be impossible, such as straight through a wall.
Enlightenment: This can supplement an attack against a character within Long Range.
Oooh
tulip folio
I'm also going to steal a charm I wrote for Sids in general and make it part of this.
tulip folio
As this thing's idea is basicly 'I'm not just good at swords. I am the very concept of things being ended, channeled through a blade'
With it being a lot of 'Hey, I just stabbed A Concept to death. Have fun with that!'
mighty rover
very World-Breaker's Hand of you
tulip folio
A big thing I don't want to do with this though? Send things to Oblivion. 1) There is already a SMA that does that B) this is a very Endings-themed martial art and they're not into just outright ceasing to exist. iii) I think I can do something much more fun with it.
I'm pondering giving it a varient of the classic 'Perma-Kill A Spirit/Thing that can't otherwise die'
But rather than ending it forever, it basicly goes 'No, you go through Lethe. Now. You're not a human soul? TOO FUCKING BAD, enjoy your next life as a human!'
Kingdoms Become Sand
Cost: 6m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 4
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Amethyst Eyes of Division Form
There is nothing that can be created that is without its own ending. The most resolute castle and the most brilliant merchant court will one day be little more than sand, even its name forgotten.
Upon Incapacitating the head of an organization, the Martial Artist inflicts the fated death upon the group itself. Over the next several days and weeks, members drift apart and offices close until there is nothing but empty buildings standing like gravestones. To all outside observers, this is a normal event as internal tensions come to a boil or the shocking news of the head's defeat shakes the group to its core.
Those within the organization with Essence equal to or higher than the Martial Artist can spend 1 Willpower to realize that something supernatural has occurred. If they are a leader of a subdivision, army or team they can also attempt to make a ((Charisma or Strength) + Bureaucracy) check at a difficulty equal to (2+ Martial Artist's Essence) to maintain the structure of their own subsection, cut off from the rest of what was part of the organisation.
Attempts to recreate the Organization increase their Difficulty by the Martial Artist's (Essence), though this penalty decreases by 1 each Calibration.
Organizations that have power that flows from one other than the known head are particularly vulnerable to this charm, as a mortal chief who is nothing but a puppet for his Solar advisor falling before heavenly blades can shatter his village despite his advisor's best efforts.
(Ozymandias inspired the name)
mighty rover
which splats have the good Sail charms
wise ocean
boat body
coral wraith
which splats have the good Sail charms
Sidereals get some juicy ones
I am very biased, but Sids do legitimately have a lot of the best charm design across all the splats
Oh @tulip folio did you see my explanation of why Secrets Sids are good?
tulip folio
Oh <@248315253027373057> did you see my explanation of why Secrets Sids are good...
I did not!
I have been semi-consious most of the day
I'm on holiday so my sleep pattern is fucked. XD
tulip folio
Yeah. Journeys, Serenity and Endings I can all vibe with but for some reason Secrets and Battles don't do it for it.
coral wraith
So Secrets is naturally good at uncovering stuff, but they also make really good manipulators on top of that
Everything but Investigation gives you ways to fuck with people
There's a lot of Ess 1 Secrets charms that are unhinged
Avoiding-The-Truth Technique is world's your oyster level of usefulness
tulip folio
Makes sense.
My issue with Battles is sorta my issue with 2e dawns. 'Hey, these caste abilities overlap a bit too much' (Though not as bad as 2e dawns) and also a bit of 'Martial Arts play poorly with several of those abilities'
'Oh boy, look at all these Versatile Archery Charms. Now to go and use them with all my archery martial ar...oh, bugger'
coral wraith
look at this bullshit
coral wraith
My issue with Battles is sorta my issue with 2e dawns. 'Hey, these caste abiliti...
Yeah I do think RedSid is the most awkward for sure
tulip folio
That and 'Look, do you need Brawl and Archery and Melee?'
Especially since Brawl is the only one of those three that naturally flows into more than like...1-2 martial arts. XD
Journeys are actually remarkably versatile in the martial arts they have available
Due to 'Knives Exist, have thrown and a lot of martial arts let you use knives'
coral wraith
yeah yellow sid is just good, though they do also have a lot of nicher abilities
tulip folio
look at this bullshit
Very fun yeah.
coral wraith
like, realistically speaking, you're taking resistance/thrown/one other thing probably, but it is more flexible than battles
tulip folio
I still think that Sid Witch I'm making is still going to be Serenity though. As Serenity is just the 'I am here to Ruin Lives' sids 😛
Sid Socialize Intensifies
coral wraith
Don't underestimate Secrets at pulling BS like that either
bullshit
MASSIVE bullshit
tulip folio
Serenity +
Lore
Occult
Awareness
Integrity
(Larceny? Thrown? Brawl?)
Working out the abilities for said sid. I will admit, I am taking a chunk of Secrets.
tulip folio
MASSIVE bullshit
Name pilfering is fucking hilarious. My Blademaster Sid has it!
She used it to steal an Abyssal's name.
More accurately: She stole their 'you don't gain limit for using this' new name
coral wraith
fun fact: name-pilfering practice has explict synergy with a Linguistics charm that puts both of them into fuckin overdrive
tulip folio
'Hey, shithead'
tulip folio
Makes sense.
tulip folio
I do not know about Spider Google
tulip folio
Hahahah, that's very fun
coral wraith
It's so good
Sid Investigation in general is just like
So efficient
Absurd charm (positive)
tulip folio
That's very silly (positive)
coral wraith
If you have any related intimacy it's just free real estate
Finishing case scene/profile instantly has so much utility
and you get to pick what you find!
tulip folio
```
Heartbeat Destination Slash
Cost: 4m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 3
T...
btw, does this seem 'SMA enough'?
tulip folio
```
Kingdoms Become Sand
Cost: 6m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 4
Type: Re...
Or this one?
coral wraith
im not too good at combat related stuff, but the first one seems good?
the second is great
coral wraith
100%
tulip folio
This is one designed to let you Murder Concepts a lot.
I know one thing I want to add to it? Stabbing someone's intimacy to death.
coral wraith
oho
tulip folio
most people can't reduce intimacies with martial arts + dex 😛
bleak hazel
The first one feels like Flickering Moonsilver Approach from PAOC but better and cheaper
the second one is extremely cool
tulip folio
...ah, bother. I'd forgotten about flickering moonsilver...dammit, I liked 'kill distance to let you just instantly teleport'.
coral wraith
You know, I never considered pattern spiders to be much chop as familiars until I realised 5 minutes ago it means you can self-Auspice yourself
tulip folio
I'll have to work out a new way to make the concept work
Heart-Killing Blade
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: Psyche
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: An Entry Charm Of Some Sort
Love dies, hate fades and even the bleakest despair will one day be no more. Catching the edge of their opponent's mind upon their blade, they bring death to that emotion.
The martial artist rolls (Martial Arts + Perception) against the Resolve of a character in Close Range. On a success, she cleaves an intimacy of her choice they hold in twain. It is immediately lost and cannot be regained for the rest of the story. The affected character loses imitative equal to the value of the intimacy, which the martial artist does not gain.
The affected character can spend 2 Willpower to resist losing this intimacy, though they still lose the initiative.
Reset: Once per scene
Vague Ponderings.
velvet raft
… what percentage of players do we think take one look at Spirit Shape Companion line and immediately start pondering “can I use this to have a girlfriend who is also a dinosaur?”
Also Ride having a “you’re a horse now” charm is amazing
tulip folio
Not sure on 'just end the intimacy entirely' but just degrading it felt like too little. Harrowing Scythe of Azet-Ithey is a mid-tier necromancy spell that can knock (Essence) intimacies out of commission at once, without ability to resist.
bleak hazel
This might be too big but the willpower cost to resist is affordable and it's a Psyche effect, I'm really not sure
Balancing social moves is not something I'm particularly up on
velvet raft
Just saw Hound of the Five Winds in Many-Faced Strangers
Summon dog(s)
Seems pretty solid as a control spell
coral wraith
It's not bad, they're solid in combat
bleak hazel
The big part is the ganging-up bonus, it adds the equivalent of six dice to their pools and makes them able to reliably gnaw on even some exalts
tulip folio
Balancing social moves is not something I'm particularly up on
Yeah, I'm trying to base on a few existing things but the fact that the primary point of comparison is a spell makes it a little trickier.
velvet raft
Do y’all think a Hound of the Five Winds could be repurposed as a reasonable three-dot familiar?
coral wraith
3 dot familiars include tyrant lizards
(and Adversaries also has a demon as a familiar for a demon pacted Solar guy, which adds additional precedent)
velvet raft
Makes sense
bleak hazel
yeah, single dog is more than fine by those standards
especially since you can just learn the spell
velvet raft
Pick up Survival/Ride charms for familiars, let the always present one be the pack leader
bleak hazel
adding yet more stuff to your growing collection of merit dots by having the wolves carry all the relics
velvet raft
Naw, I was thinking it might be fun for a lunar
There’s also a sorcery initiation in the same book which might be very fitting
bleak hazel
Luna's most stereotypical soldier
wolf mcmoonwolf
he was told he was a Lunar Anathema and decided to really roll with it
velvet raft
Tragically has a bear spirit shape
Tribute to the Beast does seem like an incredibly good shaping ritual for sids
tulip folio
Tribute to the beast?
coral wraith
Good if you have the Cha + Survival for it, but it's an oddball pairing for a sorc
velvet raft
It's got some really nice merits to go with it
That first one in particular is extremely sexy for sids who take ISOB as a control spell for the soak but can't cast it
And since sids with ride can attach more spirit charms to a familiar without too much trouble, Familiar-Empowering Arcana is potentially wild
coral wraith
Oh damn that's nuts
tulip folio
Nice. What book is this one from?
velvet raft
Many-Faced Strangers
It's lunar-oriented but honestly I suspect anybody could take it to some pretty crazy places
I just happened to have read the Sid charms earlier today
tulip folio
Dreamer of the Caul looks a lot less shiny.
velvet raft
... wow okay yeah I could see keeping that on forever
tulip folio
...a Unicorn would be a very fun Witch Beast, for one with a more Fae Magic Bent
bleak hazel
sids have smaller mote pools at lower essence, so 4 motes forever stings a bit, but it's easy to throw on whenever it's relevant
they equalize with Lunars at E5 and sid elders actually have more motes than Lunar elders
coral wraith
Yeah look I'm eating 5 motes forever to maintain my research assistants
They'll live
bleak hazel
Yeah, sids end up with lots of mote commitments between Form charms, artifacts and indefinites/scenelongs
velvet raft
Do we know anything about the North Wind as of 3e? (Or 2e, I have no recollection)