I think?
#Exalted
next delta
mighty rover
see they've been incubating this stuff for 25 years, these memes are just waiting to sweep across unprepared fandoms
tulip folio
Yeah, as referneced above
bleak hazel
in 1e you could become basically invincible, so in practice the battle would end in a statistical tie
in 3e you can beat five shikari with a Dawn, but not reliably
next delta
rip, this is what I get for not scrolling up more
tulip folio
1e wouldn't even let you go 'lets stop fighting and talk it out, neither of us can win' as it was part of the era of MDV: Fist, where social stuff didn't work in combat š
bleak hazel
it gets to the point of "don't bring artifact gear, if you fail the first decisive doomcombo you die anyway so you want to put tons of BPs and all your motes into more charms to load the doomcombo with" etc.
highly silly whiteroom events
an Essence 3 shikari in full jade can absolutely fuck up most E1 celestials, excepting only Dawns and some Full Moons
fierce star
Unfortunately in high charop ex2 the answer was 'yes'
velvet raft
Centipede Style is very cool
bleak hazel
very well-rounded in general
does a bit of everything and has a really neat multiattack - the capstone is more expensive than Invincible Fury of the Dawn and you buy a lot to get there but it is more killy
velvet raft
I also like the fluff detail that itās divided between having a big rivalry with snake and people hybridizing the two
That seems right for two styles about things that are somewhat morphologically similar
Style politics in traditional martial arts are A Lot
tulip folio
Two Sidereals who don't care about Bronze vs Gold but fucking hate each other due to Prefered Martial Art Style
"Oh look at me, I practice Toad style, I spit poison and don't wear shirts. I might as well be a Lunar."
mighty rover
amazing
prisma sun
This is canonical
tulip folio
Do you think the Lunar that invented White Reaper gets taunted by other Lunars for inventing a way to fight that can't actually be used with shapechanging?
prisma sun
Probably not, since a lot of lunars fight in human form or in a warform
tulip folio
...here's an odd pondering.
Since it lacks Versatile, Merciful Guillotine Motion from Abyssal Resistnace can't be combined with any Abyssal Brawl charms, can it?
Wait, no Versatile is only about if you can combine with Martial Arts...
fierce star
hrm versatile wasn't defined in core
tulip folio
So there isn't really a great deal of need for a Resistance Abyssal to pick up a tonne of Brawl Charms as they can't combo them with the various 'Grapple Fuckers with Resistance' charms.
bleak hazel
I think that "some exceptions exist" might allow you to use grapple charms on that, but it's a tiny bit vague
the Abyssal book defines Versatile and then has it on exactly one Charm for some reason
oh no there's a few
why the fuck do Abyssals get versatile charms, this is bullshit
tulip folio
I imagine they're counterparts to the solar charms that said 'you can use this with any ability but we don't like keywords in the corebook so fuck you'?
bleak hazel
for some reason all their "I steal motes" charms are Versatile and that's about it, which is odd
but not Owl Seizes Mouse, AKA Thunderclap Rush Attack, which can still be used with any ability
mote stealing, one random brawl charm and "use Strength for attacks", which is fair enough
tulip folio
Where is that 'use strength for attacks'? I can't find a 'general charms' section like there for Alchs
bleak hazel
one in melee, one in brawl
tulip folio
Oh...that's awkward. I'd need both to benefit from it properly with this character.
As the melee one works on medium weapons (What the chains are)
And the brawl one on unarmed attacks
Abyssals, you gave me a medium brawling weapon with your in-exalt charms, why does it not work with your brawl stat changing charm?
As an aside: It would be kinda fun some time to see an exalt type that inverts the usual brawl + melee defensive charm dynamic.
Where brawl gets the clash charms and melee the parry charms
velvet raft
Hm, it occurs to me that I should look at Air and Wood Dragon styles, since those are potentially usable with the sidereal "shoot a bolt of magic" occult charm
tulip folio
Sadly wood is not
It uses bows but it can't make ranged attacks
I don't get wood dragon entirely. XD
It feels like it should get to shoot the bow
velvet raft
Oh I could've sworn it did in 2e
tulip folio
But it's a full style based around 'never doing the thing your weapon is designed for'
velvet raft
She can enhance this attack
with Archery Charms, Thrown Charms, or Martial Arts
Charms that are compatible with any ranged weapons,
but canāt combine Charms from multiple such Abilities
unless theyāre explicitly compatible with other Abilities.
Still might work with an extremely literal, almost-certainly-wrong reading!
tulip folio
Unweaving a guy so hard that you kick his soul directly into lethe would be cool
fierce star
(It did hav eranged attacks in ex2, I am 90% sure)
velvet raft
The style is pretty cool
tulip folio
Sid using his 'I can add form weapons to a martial art style' to add bows to the style that already has bows as a form weapon. XD
velvet raft
The whole Soul-Marking Style line of charms seems kinda cool
tulip folio
Pondering a charm/how abusable it would be.
Flawless Predicted Attack
Coast 3(?)m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Uniform
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Vivisection of Thought From
This supplements an attack that benefit from Aim. The aim bonus also applies to Damage or Initiative rolls.
tulip folio
nods
velvet raft
Huh, that would have nice combo potential with Wood Dragon
tulip folio
...entertainingly, that charm being not versatile means that sids can't use that on martial arts attacks.
bleak hazel
yeah, Sid Melee's basics are less universally Versatile than Sid Brawl
this and the onslaught negator are both locked to Melee
in exchange you get Invulnerable Shieldbearer Expertise (do any martial arts even use shields?) and Harmony of Blows, which is amazing
tulip folio
...I know some 2e martial arts that use shields and they don't yet appear in 3e.
bleak hazel
I am cheating by making some Shield-tagged bracers that work for Crane Style, but I think that's the only default method
velvet raft
IIRC there was a spear-and-shield martial art back in 2e
bleak hazel
until you get Enlightenment or PAOC Form and turn every single charm versatile, anyway
tulip folio
Yeah. It would be a fun one to translate to 3e...and entertainingly, I do have a pondering for what the form for that would include.
Being a 'no armour' shield-based style, I feel like the form could do
-Your bonus to parry from a shield also applies to evasion.
Among the other bonuses.
wise ocean
Where brawl gets the clash charms and melee the parry charms
Melee got all the parry charms in Abyssal
oh, wait, you probably meant that is the usual dynamic
tulip folio
Yeah, that is the normal dynamic
I was pondering the opposite. Where melee gets the clash charms and brawl the parry
bleak hazel
melee is a natural fit for parry because they have the Medium weapons
but yeah, it could be varied up
Sids actually assign most clash stuff to Melee as well as Parry and then brawl is handling their brand new theme of "make hard choices"
tulip folio
Man, there really isn't many Brawl Weapons, is there?
Kinda feels like we didn't need God-Kicking Boots and Smashfists in Light, when they're the only two options that are not improvised weapons. XD
Then again, I guess there is a Medium Brawl weapon.
velvet raft
You can get medium weapons with brawl by using Invulnerable Skin of Bronze
tulip folio
'A table leg'. XD
As that's an Improvised Mace, going by the rules
And maces are medium!
velvet raft
The spell that does everything
tulip folio
If I beat someone with an artifact that's not designed to be used as a weapon, is it an artifact improvised weapon? š
wise ocean
Yes. See: "large bell".
bleak hazel
I feel I didn't properly appreciate ISOB when I started out
"having fake tan skin is a bit obvious, isn't it?"
nope, just learn it from Necromancy and now you have bone skin
that probably fits somewhere's beauty standard, this is imperial chinarome
tulip folio
"What, I'm from the West, of course I've got a tan."
tulip folio
I wonder what the highest 'reasonable' damage is in the game.
The biggest 'you could expect to actually see this hitting you some day'
fierce star
withering or decisive?
tulip folio
Either, though I was thinking withering
bleak hazel
I tend to think about soak assuming "max strength artifact weapon rolling a few extra successes" is standard because that's suitably conservative, most things will come in below that
if you want to be big and stompy I suppose heavy weapon Deadly Beastman with two raw withering damage boosters is coming in with something like 34 withering + extra successes
tulip folio
nods
bleak hazel
raw withering damage is quite cheap, so this isn't a particularly stupid thing to do
tulip folio
So anything that can hit 20+ soak is going to soak up everything short of a dedicated can opener.
bleak hazel
the highest amount of soakable damage on a weapon is 10, most are 9 or so, so your first 10 points of soak is functionally always handy
by 15 you're full soaking weapon + unmodified max strength, add a few in case of extra successes and yeah, 20 soak is where diminishing returns really start appearing
at least unless you have Overwhelming reducers
tulip folio
Yeah, I was looking at 20 as that's 'Heavy Artifact Weapon + Str 5 + 1 Success'.
bleak hazel
(this is assuming you're fighting exalts, I assume there's some beastie somewhere with like 20 raw withering + 1 OW)
tulip folio
I know the Unicorn is like 17 Withering + 1 OW. XD
Hits like a truck but can't puncture armour worth a damn
bleak hazel
Yeah, I was looking at 20 as that's 'Heavy Artifact Weapon + Str 5 + 1 Success'.
that heavy artifact weapon has 5-6 overwhelming, so in practice you only care about soaking 8-9 of that
(+5 strength, +1 success for 15)
bleak hazel
this is why I'm reasonably happy with my elder whiteroom sid just popping ISOB and going wild
in soulfire form that's 13 soak, 13 hardness, add stamina and you're at 16-18, which is enough for government work
maybe throw on a soak rock for 1 mote
bleak hazel
*Are* there many overwhelming reducers? I don't think I've seen many.
Lunars have lots, it's how they turn into such indestructible super tanks
a few animals have -1 post-soak built in, then more from charms
tulip folio
Right, Mr Tyrant Lizard has one
bleak hazel
Solars have a couple, the most infamous of which is Aegis of Invincible Might, which is -5 as well as 20 hardness and change
tulip folio
Because Mr Tyrant Lizard is always the best at things. XD
bleak hazel
Abyssals have a copy of that
tulip folio
nods
Pondering as I'm looking back over that Jadeborn-Blooded Sid with a 'passive' Soak 14, Soak 19 with Form Up.
Which seems 'About as high as is reasonable, before you start running into diminishing returns'
bleak hazel
yeah, a lunar goes Fuck You and jumps straight up to 30+ soak without too much difficulty, then focuses most of their actual charm effort on shutting down your overwhelming to the point you just can't hurt them
but for everyone else that isn't really necessary
tulip folio
While the Endings sid goes 'Behold, a kitchen knife' and stabs you with an Overwhelming 8 improvised weapon.
bleak hazel
You'll need a bit more than that, but it definitely gets you to a good starting point, yeah
(for Lunars, that is, most normal targets really hate being beaten by a stick that has more whelm than their normal steel sword does raw damage)
tulip folio
nods
I should check out how much lunars reduce overwhelming for making sure Rex Frame's capstone isn't out of scale.
Sky-Twisting Boar Supremacy
Cost: -(+5m, 1wp); Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 5
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Dual
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Immortal Dark Star, Star-Shaping Gravity, Black Hole Body
The martial artist may pay a five-mote, one-Willpower surcharge when she uses Rex Frame Form to embody the true power of Isidoros, gaining the following effects:
-Attacks against the Martial Artist halve their base Overwhelming, rounding down. This does not apply to additional Overwhelming granted by charms or other magic.
-The Soak and Hardness granted by Rex Frame Form is increased by 2 each time the martial artist is attacked. This additional Soak and Hardness resets to the base level at the start of each of her turns.
-She treats any social influence or psyche effect that would make her stop moving or fighting as an Unacceptable Influence. In addition, any social influence that would weaken or alter one of her Intimacies that is directly related to the ongoing fight is also treated as an Unacceptable Influence.
Though it is the E5 effect. It reduces a mundane non-balanced weapon to overwhelming 0, a light artifact weapon to 1 and a heavy artifact weapons to 2 but this won't affect like 'I am an endings sid and using my anima to make it beefier'
limpid badge
Anima banners are fun
tulip folio
Yeah, I should work out more for my exalts. I know what RiRi has but less so most of my Sids.
RiRi's Anima banner is a rusted orange gear, starting to turn, shedding the rust around it to reveal gold.
bleak hazel
```
Sky-Twisting Boar Supremacy
Cost: -(+5m, 1wp); Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence...
This is well within remit, I think
Soakbeasts do slow fights down a lot, it's absolutely not necessary to immediately slap 15-20 soak in every character
tulip folio
Yeah, my only Absolute Soakbeasts are that Jadeborn-Blooded Sid and the Resistance Supernal Abyssal.
But I mean...Resistance Supernal
Wasn't getting out of that one without being a soakbeast.
bleak hazel
I would recommend getting at least 8-10 if you intend to be fighting and 5 if you're not, roughly
tulip folio
They don't really...hurt things super well but they're very good at going 'Welcome to the fight...you are never leaving'.
With the chain 'I can oppose people trying to walk away from me'
bleak hazel
which is usually like "I have a stamina stat and put on a shirt" territory
tulip folio
RiRi has Soak...7!
fierce star
lesse here... wound penalty from frenzied bear fortification, wound-mastering body evolution flat out ignores overwhelming
those are the lunar overwhelming reducers/ignorers
bleak hazel
You may note that the second one is Very Big
tulip folio
'Everything' does tend to be pretty damn big, yeah
fierce star
it is an essence 4 charm that costs 5m1WP and 1i per turn
and you can only use it after you suffer from decisive damage
tulip folio
As you Borg Adapt to the guy
bleak hazel
Totally worth it all day every day, though
bleak hazel
You will not easily contest Lunars at being indestructible
tulip folio
If you stop even a single point of damage a turn, it's paid for itself
bleak hazel
(unless they don't have a spirit-cutter, in which case lmao)
fierce star
huh
tulip folio
RiRi's main defence is 'Good luck, I'm behind a battlegroup of zombies'
Which is a pretty good defence, to be fair
Oh and 'A staff, for parrying'
fierce star
nothing in alchemicals, fwiw, I went to check, for ovw reducers
bleak hazel
Lunars also have the ability to turn into an armadillo and curl up for 20 soak and -1 whelm
tulip folio
Yeah, I don't think Alchs are actually Huge Soakbeasts this edition.
Though I don't think anything matches up to Alchs in the 'Defending Allies' game.
bleak hazel
which is pretty useful if you are Jimmy Changing Moon with one dot in brawl
tulip folio
'I can defend other every single ally out to extreme range'
fierce star
they get excellencies to soak and like, my silk armored alch has....
bleak hazel
Alchs have soak but it's more on the level of "solar who is kinda trying" than "lunar doom monster"
fierce star
yeah
11 soak, 14 if I excellency it, and that's only gonna go up with mutation charms, exoskeletal reinforcement, and getting stamina to 5
bleak hazel
("kinda" here excluding resistance Supernal with AOIM for obvious reasons)
limpid badge
Yeah, I should work out more for my exalts. I know what RiRi has but less so mos...
Tbf Sids only recently got nicer animas
tulip folio
Alchs also have some really good defensive charms outside of 'raw soak'
bleak hazel
Soak is one of the things I do adjust to my party a bit, because GMing when one player has soak 25 and the other has 2 can be a bit tricky
If everyone has 2-5 because they're all baby Exalts who took up Black Claw or something, not a problem
tulip folio
They've got '5 motes, double my evasion 1/scene' as a psuedo-perfect dodge.
bleak hazel
Honestly mutations, potential stam 6 and armour basically covers you
Soak is no longer remotely a problem, go do more interesting things
tulip folio
...this is also making me ponder a charm for that SWLIHN martial art.
bleak hazel
Spending charms on soak is boring unless you're deliberately building a Juggernaut, so I wholly endorse people popping ISOB and forgetting about it
tulip folio
It's what makes me really like Abyssal Resistance having a whole line of 'I pillaged the 4e Fighter's Stickiness Tricks'
With the chains
So it's not just 'Be an ignorable but unkillable person'
bleak hazel
The decisive savage thing might be a little OTT but whatever, you're an E4 solar, go forth and devastate
prisma sun
Anima banners are fun
Drifts:
Iconic: A field of flowers blooms for miles around Drifts. Every sweep of his arms casts an armada of petals into the air. Doves and birds of paradise fly free forevermore.```(every time I say "this is cool, it's high essence and has massive effect" I remember Supernal exists and it reduces the juice level by about 15%)
tulip folio
The Resistance Abyssal doesn't (Yet) actually have that one. She caps out on that path at the 'GRAPPLE EVERYONE NEXT TO ME!' so that she can have some Versatility.
bleak hazel
Abyssal trees making you into mini-deathlords is really neat, FAFL has added a lot of style to Resistance
fierce star
God I love the ex3 death lords so much more than previous editions
tulip folio
I stand by Mask still being illiterate in 3e.
Just because it's funny.
Hmm...pondering an E1 charm. How would you price:
Flawless Predicted Attack
Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
Supplemental
This supplements an attack that benefit from Aim. One non-Charm die from Aim is replaced with a Non-Charm Success.
Increase the number of dice replaced added by one each additional time this charm is used in a scene, to a maximum of all three dice being replaced.
Trying to play into SWLIHN's focus on perfection and reducing randomness.
(And becuse I was worried it was becoming too Grappling Focused. I want it to be good at grappling but not just grappling)
prisma sun
What's a good House of Journeys god for a Godblooded to be born from
I kinda like the idea of a water-theme
The God of Canals?
coral wraith
I would recommend getting at least 8-10 if you intend to be fighting and 5 if yo...
So 10 is good? What about more than that?
spring lynx
What's a good House of Journeys god for a Godblooded to be born from
kinda depends on the vibe you want, really
prisma sun
I did the god of trade canals
limpid badge
Drifts:
```Yellow flower petals of spicebush and dancing fireflies are carried u...
Yaaaah
velvet raft
Love that Sidereal Awareness includes turning into a big crow
coral wraith
its peak
velvet raft
Also @bleak hazel just noticed this
upper stratus
what book is that from
velvet raft
Sidereals
upper stratus
huh must've missed it. i was looking around for something like it before
velvet raft
So someone with PAOC can just throw this on as needed for 2 committed motes
But also uh just generally very useful
tulip folio
Gunna put that in smashfists so I can Strangle A God
velvet raft
I do wish Unweaving Method had more going on
coral wraith
I do wish Unweaving Method had more going on
how so?
velvet raft
It doesn't have any charms that improve it and the selection of martial arts it works with is small and unclear
tulip folio
I wrote a martial art for it (And other similar charms)! š
velvet raft
Can you use it with Ebon Shadow (since you can throw knives)? What about Silver-Voiced Nightingale (kiais are compatible with thrown)? what about wood dragon? Righteous Devil?
It's just kind of there
I wish there was more to it
tulip folio
My read is 'yes on all of them except for wood dragon'.
That said: The base effect of Unweaving is really solid, so martial arts are gravy
coral wraith
It's also the only like, pure mental "basic attack" charm in the game afaik
it has a lot of baseline juice
velvet raft
There are some other ways to get such
tulip folio
I think the one that most matches it in raw oomph is Essence Pulse Cannon but notably Essence Pulse Cannon does it with Versatility, not Raw power.
velvet raft
The fire sorcery initiation can grab an Int + Occult attack as a two dot merit
velvet raft
Which is maaaaaybe compatible with Thrown?
coral wraith
The fire sorcery initiation can grab an Int + Occult attack as a two dot merit
Sure, it's also not particularly good
tulip folio
Lit Firecracker Eruption
Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: Withering-only, Terrestial
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Flower Mirror Form
With a laugh, the martial artist reveals the crescendo of her show...and one she's already prepared.
The Martial Artist makes an ((Intelligence or Wits)) + Larceny) withering attack against the Guile an enemy within medium range, using (Essence) instead of the Weapon's Accuracy. This enemy must be one she has previously affected with an Attack, Distract or Pickpocket action, as that is revealed to have set up a dangerous misalignment of the target's essence. The attack ignores armoured soak and adds the target's (Anima) to the raw damage.
If the target is crashed by this attack, the martial artist may treat the attack as a fear or awe-based inspire roll against everyone who sees her.
Reset: 1/Scene
Terrestrial: The martial artist may only treat the attack as a fear or awe-based inspire roll against one non-trivial character, though they may still affect any number of trivial characters.
I had fun with the martial art I set up that works with Unweaving Method/Other Blasty Charms.
velvet raft
I dunno, it just feels awkward that you can't upgrade it
really i'm just mad that i can't grab it and use it with wood dragon
coral wraith
I honestly dont think Sids have a hugely compelling reason to go Wood Dragon anyway :p
tulip folio
I honestly dont think Sids have a hugely compelling reason to go Wood Dragon any...
The Sid Who Invented Wood Dragon: "...awww..."
coral wraith
sorry buddy you were makin' this for the little guys
velvet raft
Aye, I just made this character who's aiming for PAOC and while currently she goes Water Dragon, Wood would be a very good fit and let her make good use of this >_>
tulip folio
...right I need to finish writing the fluff for Flower Mirror Style.
velvet raft
In fairness Ebon Shadow would also be great for her and would work with this ...
coral wraith
ebon shadow is criminally good with unweaving method
you just palm slam 5 extra dice in if you have good stealth and you're in ebon shadow form
10 if it's unexpected
tulip folio
And like...you're a Sid. Stealth is hardly something it's uncommon to be good at. XD
Though I have a fond spot for Swaying Grass as the booster for Unweaving.
Less offensively focused but it's got some good tricks
Like 1/Battle Ambush Attack Unweaving
Armoured Soak Ignoring Ambush is beefy
bleak hazel
So 10 is good? What about more than that?
0-9 low, 10-19 good, 20+ heavy, 30+ just running up the score, for most practical purposes
coral wraith
gotcha
bleak hazel
10 will soak all the soakable damage from corebook weapons, 15 also soaks their strength, 20 adds a nice safety margin to that in case of Deadly Beastman/lots of extra successes so you're only at risk of not full soaking if they're a huge battlegroup or have spent specifically on withering booster charms
In practice you do not need to be this beefy, taking a bit of above-baseline withering damage is fine if your job description isn't Walking Tank, but it's where the rough breakpoints are
velvet raft
Bah, fuck it. Forget Water Dragon, Ebon Shadow is my new best friend
coral wraith
hmm, if I throw mundane light armour on for Grinning Mask they're at 12 soak with ISOB on
14 with artifact light or a soak rock
16 with both
that's uh, very probably more than good enough for sorcerer andy
bleak hazel
My combat Sid in another game has a grand total of 8 soak (stam 3 + t-shirt)
so yes, more than enough
tulip folio
RiRi will likely need more later but she's got Light Artifact Armour + 2 Stamina so there's plenty of room to grow.
coral wraith
part of the problem for Grinning Mask is they already have an artifact's worth of motes committed at all times to maintain their research assistants
so i don't really want an artifact
the soak rock is at least only 1 mote
bleak hazel
You are little babby, watch this:
PAOC Form 30
Exalt Ways 5
Artifact weapon 5
Indomitable Shieldbearer 3
Soak rock 1
= 44 committed motes for the boss sid
coral wraith
bleak hazel
(to be fair, that is kind of just how SMAs go, they're not cheap and it's expected you have 70+ motes at that point)
coral wraith
holy hell
bleak hazel
he does have disgusting mote efficiency for his last 30, though, I think it's worthwhile
tulip folio
Meanwhile, the Abyssal I'm playing about with:
5 Stamina
5 Unusual Skin
11 Heavy Artifact Armour
Which is a fucktonne of passive soak. XD
coral wraith
me when the skin is a tad unusual
hmm...now I'm thinking, what circle/ambition level would it be to give mutations you could turn on and off
unusual skin causing social problems? just toggle it off
tulip folio
To be fair, at this point this abyssal has...-10 dice to disguise.
She's kinda just running up the 'yes, we know you're weird' score
coral wraith
heh
velvet raft
... do we ever actually get a clear definition of the term "armored soak"?
I presume it means "soak specifically from armor"
But that doesn't seem to be written anywhere
bleak hazel
Not as far as I know, at least it's fairly obvious in most cases
I guess ISOB is the exception, since Incomparable Body Arsenal explicitly gives you artifact heavy
velvet raft
Like, okay, say you use Seven Points of Weakness Strike with Unweaving Method. SPOWS ignores (Stealth, or Stealth*2 vs. unaware opponents) armored soak, and with Mastery, any leftover soak reduction is converted to post-soak damage dice. Sounds good. Unweaving Method ignores all armored soak. Depending on order of operations, I can see two ways this could interact.
- If SPOWS reduces armored soak to zero on its own, it can get the mastery damage boost. Otherwise, unarmored soak is ignored without said boost.
- UM ignores all unarmored soak, and then the mastery damage boost is applied on top of that.
It seems like the first one is probably right, but there's not a ton of clarity here
tulip folio
I tend to use 'if it's not clear, the user of the charm gets to pick order of operations'
velvet raft
Fair enough
15 years ago I spent several days going through the 3.5 heartbreaker cataloging and rewording the terminology around attacks for consistency and this kind of thing has bugged me ever since
"what the fuck does 'strike' mean jake"
bleak hazel
Funny that Jimmy Endings can get an Overwhelming 13 unweaving method when it a) categorically does not need to whelm that hard and b) only does 8 raw damage
set soak to no
velvet raft
As an aside, I will say that with the mastery effect SPOWS is pretty wild
bleak hazel
Stealth builds are very strong, yeah
potentially a reaction to 2e where they were functionally irrelevant due to 1m ambush defence
tulip folio
Alright, finished the fluff for Mirror Flower (Got distracted)
Mirror Flower Style
While one would think primarily of the Immaculate Orders when they think of masters of martial arts in the Realm, the Heptagram is no stranger to such styles. Sorcerers must be strong of body, not merely of mind, to keep up with the grueling pace and the physical needs of enduring the presence of Elementals and Demons alike.
Mirror Flower is the development of a master of the Heptagram, centuries ago. Studying magic had led him to a conclusion - The ephemeral is no less a powerful force than the physical. The primal elements can be bound with chains of words and illusions hold more sway than many people who actually lived. It is from this philosophy that Mirror Flower draws, making use of mystical power and illusion to outmaneuver, outwit and overpower the purely physical.
Mirror Flower has spread among the various sorcerers of the Heptagam and, oddly enough, deep in the south. Mortal sorcerers speaking flaming names granted to them by Djinn Lords to cut down those who would think that steel is stronger than sorcery, even as heirs to the Realm bring the power of a typhoon upon entire formations of foes, helping maintain the true power of the Realm: Its illusion of invincibility.
I wanted to make this a Dragonblooded created martial art because to be frank: Dragonblooded have the most support for their in-exalt blasting charms.
If anyone is going to develop a martial art based on that, it's going to be them.
That and with the immaculte styles invented by Sids, there's not really a heap of DB-created martial arts
If that makes sense?
bleak hazel
Five Dragon Style is now just Deeb Melee, yeah
velvet raft
... okay, ugh, having built a Sid, I am compelled to agree that Supernal/Apocalyptic is poor design because it over-incentivizes grabbing 12 charms from one ability and forces the charm design to involve a whole bunch of arbitrarily long trees.
And like, it's a foundational issue, you couldn't just get rid of Supernal or Apocalyptic, you'd also need to rewrite the whole charm set around that change
God damn it to be tbh
bleak hazel
the Sid trees are so clean, aren't they
tulip folio
I deeply hope we don't see the same with Infernals.
bleak hazel
I want to do melee: OK, take half a dozen of the first 8 melee charms and then you get an extra 2-4 options per level
velvet raft
Whereas you build a sid and most trees are only 2-4 charms long because you don't need to put stuff behind 47 arbitrary gates, and you end up with all kinds of weird charms from all over
next delta
... okay, ugh, having built a Sid, I am compelled to agree that Supernal/Apocaly...
I hope they don't give Infernals supernal, but it seems to be the Solaroid gimmick
velvet raft
And ugh, thinking about it, I feel like the cleanest solution if you wanted to keep something like supernal would be a tag like Enlightenment/Mastery
And just ... give charms secondary supernal effects
next delta
Essence just doesn't have it at all
bleak hazel
I have seen this idea from a few people
the issue I have with it is that a lot of Solar charms are defined by being extremely simple and extremely mote efficient, so sticking a Mastery equivalent on them gets you basically double power for your buy
velvet raft
Oh, like I said, you couldn't use the existing charm set
bleak hazel
it's also a ton of work
velvet raft
Whatever your solution, you would need to rewrite the entire thing, I suspect
Because in many respects the solar charm trees feel like they're built around supernal as an assumption
tulip folio
I hope they don't give Infernals supernal, but it seems to be the Solaroid gimmi...
I live in hope they won't get converted into a standard solaroid with the new devs. XD
velvet raft
Like ... take Essence Induction Technique, one of my favorite charms despite not having any rules. I think it is clearly aimed at supernal occult users, meant to be sort of a defining "this is my gimmick" charm.
bleak hazel
my go-to approach is "Supernal gets you Essence +1, then we prune all the bullshit"
I think the Charm Gardening livestreams were deleted by twitch caching changes, or I'd post them again - a bunch of reasonably experienced exalted GMs and a couple of newbies go through the entire solar charmset and consign about half of the charms to the void while riffing on them
next delta
š¤ what if it was one capstone charm you could take. Kind of like the signature thing DBs have going on
bleak hazel
it's long but very funny, I hope they get reuploaded
next delta
Like your get one E5 charm. And you could pick up others once you actually get to E5
bleak hazel
the problem is that then you have an E5 charm, and now every single capstone needs to be designed around being immediately leapt to
next delta
Well, you could make it a subset of E5 charms
velvet raft
And you need to figure out how lower-essence prereqs work
bleak hazel
whenever I see a solar charm that has insane ridiculous power and a massive essence requirement I go "that would be sweet if I didn't have to GM around it being chargen tech"
next delta
Fair
velvet raft
Like ... take Essence Induction Technique, one of my favorite charms despite not...
To make it a rare gimmick that is not way too easy to pick up, it has to be hidden behind Essence 5 and way too many prereqs
prisma sun
I think Meat has a good idea
next delta
It really depends on what you are trying to do with Supernal
velvet raft
"Everyone starts with one really big cool charm" would be a reasonable solution
next delta
Oh. That modification is a neat twist
velvet raft
Where Supernal gives you a special charm that unlocks more as you gain Essence
What if you did something like "here are the supernal gimmick charms. They do cool shit. You get one, and as your essence goes up, it grows in power. At E5, you can grab others, but they do not get those power bumps."
That way it's sort of your thing all the way through
I bet it would be a lot of work but not infeasible to have 3-5 of these choices per ability
bleak hazel
I actually like supernal as "you can skip some of the requirements of your main ability, but you're not any better at it than a high essence solar who just went there normally" because it gets that "solars get jacked quickly" thing across without forcing you to decide your core deal forever at chargen
velvet raft
And you could prune some other stuff in the process
next delta
Cool things to happen for fourth edition
prisma sun
Solars and Vampires: Forever cursed with having the worst or second worst mechanics of their respective editions
bleak hazel
I am working on Misc's One Page Solar Patch which is just an emergency tweak of some of the most nuts abilities to make sure that they don't completely break combat, but I do not have the stamina to go through and do a whole new charmset, nor do I have the experience with non-blender solars
oh yeah, for those not familiar with the difference in neatness between early 3e trees and late 3e trees:
Sidereal Melee
ignore the actual charms, but you can see the structure
Solar Melee
even with a lot of the top part of the Sid tree being replaced by SMAs, they still actually have as many E4/5 charms as solars do, all the bloat is lower down
velvet raft
And a lot of said bloat really is about just gatekeeping the high-essence charms against supernal
bleak hazel
yeah, Solar combat trees are basically the size of Lunar trees and Lunars have less than half as many because they're for entire attributes
velvet raft
... yeah okay I guess Essence +1 or +2 with partial redesigns would be solid
Well, in some cases
bleak hazel
(you'd also have to explode the hearthstone that gives you +1E for one charm, but that's fine, that's just a Cheese Enabler in 90% of cases)
velvet raft
I guess what you could do for the "this really feels like it was made for E1 supernals" charms is move them to E3, and then give them an E5 repurchase of some kind
dense verge
(you'd also have to explode the hearthstone that gives you +1E for one charm, bu...
that hearthstone is getting sent to hell
velvet raft
Yeah light it on fire
fierce star
It still annoys me a bit... a lot, actually
that solaroid's whole thing is 'I get to E5 immediately in one tree' and then half the trees don't even have E5 capstones
awareness caps at essence 4, integrity at essence 4, linguistics at essence 4, presence at essence 4, ride is essence 3, sail is essence 3, stealth is essence 4, survival is essence 3, thrown is essence 4, and war is essence 3
so... 10/26 skills.
okay so not fully half but close enough (counting all crafts and martial arts as a single ability)
velvet raft
"Solars' sick bones"
bleak hazel
MA caps at 3-4 outside the Dragon Styles (and SMA, which Supernal does not apply to)
fierce star
11/26 then
bleak hazel
Craft should, by all rights, cap at 3, because you can craft N/A grade First Age stuff with ease using only E3 charms and a lot of the higher essence ones are pure XP sinks or just silly ("use when you are currently working on 10+ legendary projects at once", really?)
as far as I know the sole exception is Dual Magnus Prana, and that has a couple of other problems
velvet raft
I do think normal MAs could go to 5 without stepping on the toes of SMAs
bleak hazel
they could, but I don't think they should
Martial Arts going wide as you get way more XP appeals to me more than every style getting half a dozen extra charms
velvet raft
Oh, no, I don't think the existing styles should get that
I think you could have non-SMA styles that begin at 3, though
bleak hazel
I'd rather not, in that case
velvet raft
Or maybe just more repurchases on existing charms
bleak hazel
because at that point you're just making knockoff SMAs
(or they are deliberately weaker, at which point ???)
velvet raft
Thinking about it, I like the idea of repurchases more
bleak hazel
I'm not sure what this gets you
it's not like normal MAs are bereft of big flashy capstones
velvet raft
Mainly it lets other people who want to focus on MA not suddenly have to backtrack to other stuff to pick up essence 4-5 combat charms
And there are essence 1-5 MA charms even now ā the dragon styles
bleak hazel
4 you have in several core martial arts already, but I can kind of see it
velvet raft
And there are essence 1-5 MA charms even now ā the dragon styles
Which I think serves this exact purpose
bleak hazel
I still think it's mostly pointless bloat though - Lunars and Alchs already have their core charms as MA-compatible enhancements, Solaroids and Sids can learn SMAs and Dergs have the Dragon Styles, which specifically enhance other styles too by allowing you to aura away Terrestrial
nobody is really lacking here
(hell, Solar martial artists can get E4 martial arts charms at chargen, they're already going wide for options rather than deep for power long before that point)
bleak hazel
all attribute-based charms are compatible with martial arts by default
so literally every lunar charm works with every MA
velvet raft
Aye, but it does mean you have to go back and pick up the low-essence lunar charms to qualify for the higher essence effects
bleak hazel
you want to do that anyway, most of the time - things like onslaught negators or capbreaking accuracy adders go very well with almost every martial art
and Deadly Beastman, of course
velvet raft
Not the worst thing in the world but I think it would appeal to some folks to be able to say, āthis is my martial art that is the focus of my combat schtickā in the same way that deebs can say that
bleak hazel
the mechanics of how you start learning SMAs also means that adding a bunch more charms to every martial art is an active nerf to those, albeit not a large one - usually just 1-2 more charms needed before you hit the 10+ charm escape clause
velvet raft
Well, again, I think youād do it as repurchases
Which donāt count towards āis the style finishedā
Maybe even require the style to be finished to take them
Call them ārefinementsā or something I dunno
bleak hazel
well, we'll get Secret Techniques in the sid companion, so maybe those will be something along those lines
although I still hold out hope that they will be sid-exclusive so as to actualy have some sid-only stuff in the sid book
velvet raft
Ultimately Iām spitballing here
Iām not going to sit down and homebrew E4-5 repurchases of martial arts charms
bleak hazel
looking at the kickstarter it does not look like the secret techniques will be Sid-only, which is a bit of a downer, but I'm still hoping for an SMA that actually works with swords and armour
fierce star
Reaping the Measure of Reality
Cost: 10m, 2wp. Mins: Essence 3.
Type: Simple
Keywords: Perilous
Duration: 1 Scene
Prequisite Evocations: [two E2 ones I have yet to create]
Reality grows thin; the borders of a shadowlands lead to the underworld and creation alike. Prayer drifts to the divinities who reside in Yu-Shan. Demons cross an endless desert in five days time. The very borders of creation drift between is and is-not as the Wyld shifts and roils beyond the bordermarches. With reality so thin, a breath of essence and a sharp enough blade can cut a door to anywhere.
The exalt cuts a hole in reality, leading to another world. In a shadowlands during the day it leads to the Underworld; at night it leads to Creation. In a temple to a heavenly deity it leads to Yu-Shan; in a wyld zone it would transport them to the Deep Wyld, and a sorcerer's manse might teleport them to Malfeas. The exalt has some control over where the portal leads, but it is always directly related to where it is opened; a temple would lead most easily to that god's apartments, for example. Taking a portal opened to Malfeas in this way still requires five day's travel through the desert. These portals last for the rest of the scene, and may be used up to [Essence * 5] times.
Only portals opened during the night in a shadowland can lead into creation. All other portals created by this evocation lead away from creation, and are not two ways.
Workshopping stupid ideas.
this is a very 'GM adjudicates final result' evocation, but
bleak hazel
the only odd one here is "bordermarch-> deep wyld", because that's just going sideways along creation
makes sense as part of the set, though
fierce star
yeah; though wyld zones can appear inside creation if Raksha do their bullshit for enough
bleak hazel
they can, but it's still portalling to somewhere else on the same plane
fierce star
legit
like you said though sa part of the sense it makes sense even if it's not quite right, but--well, that's also the wyld in general
it isn't quite right (even when it does make sense)
mighty rover
awkward, like being castaway from the world of your origin.....
fierce star
also apparently most of their charmset can be summed up (at least in essence) as 'gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss'
prisma sun
I do find it very odd that it does not actually tell you how to run hostile Getimain
with this book
like how am I to put them into the game
are they just Sids?
bleak hazel
basically any get charm is a viable sid charm and vice versa, besides some of the more obvious Celestial Bureaucracy stuff
hell, they hit all the same themes, Arcane Fate removes you from the world and it moves on without you in the same way as Get Origin
they are kind of a pointless addition honestly, but I will continue to use them as basically a replacement for Ronin Sids and a source of fun recruit-the-weird-dude sidequests for Bureau sids rather than a coherent group of insurrectionists
fierce star
I believe current descriptions even point out that Rakan's crew is a minority
most of the time he shows up and goes KILL HEAVEN WITH VIOLENCE and they go '... k?'
prisma sun
I feel like Rakan is more likely just not willing to browbeat the Get with his point of view
since it'd be hypocritical to manipulate them to fight Heaven
He'd rather just explain things frankly (but biasedly) and then let them choose.
bleak hazel
his point of view is so incredibly underspecified that it seems vaguely laughable at this point, so hopefully the writers do a slightly better job when the get minibook appears
fierce star
also it's funny to me
that like
we still know basically squat and all about liminals
like gets are vestigial but liminals might as well just not be here?
bleak hazel
they're just kind of Around
they do feel like they're not quite big enough to fill an entire exalt category, but they'd make OK Exigents
the Essence versions have five castes and they have very little to them beyond Exalts generally coming in five varieties
fierce star
and it's not liek having five castes stops you from being an exigent
prisma sun
ehhhhh
Exigents being made with a specific thing makes it less appealing to me
I like some Exalts being weird outliers
fierce star
Honestly I'd sitll consider the immediate example of a five-castes-exigents to be weird outliers (Sovereigns)
(they're so weird i love them so much)
bleak hazel
exigents are configured in such a way that you can easily say "oh, some exigence just Got Over Here"
bleak hazel
he's very loosely part of it, especially since you can go "Conqy issued exalt juice but something happened to it and now it's doing XYZ instead"
I don't know, I just can't think of a single situation where I go "ah, yes, this story is a Liminal Thing"
prisma sun
I like there being more Exalt types than less even if they don't have mechanics
bleak hazel
"wandering ghosthunter and exorcist" could be literally any exalt type and works especially well with outcastes
fierce star
(the name also annoys me becuase thematically liminal spaces are very much a lunars thing and while the only liminal space liminals particularly seem to care about is the space between living and dead it's just the whole nomenclature thing)
frankly liminals kind of just read 'H+H really liked promethean'
which, fair, promethean is super cool
... in cod
bleak hazel
I feel there could have been some coherent mechanical leverage to this if Terrestrial-Grade Version of X was the explicit use case for the new guys
liminals being smaller lunars/abyssals done in a slightly sideways way and Gets being smaller Sids
so as to make deeb games a little bit more versatile
fierce star
I could live with that, honestly
bleak hazel
but instead Gets are just Sids 2, and don't really have any themes that aren't already really well encapsulated by actual sids
prisma sun
I would probably put them in my game
bleak hazel
yeah, I think Liminals and Gets are also good Apocryphal candidates
fierce star
Heart-eaters go in for me definitely. Umbrals as a maybe, dream-souled if I had a player interested in that.
aparently heart-eaters and dream-souled were supposed to be like, lunar foils, and umbrals and gets sidereal foils or something like that?
bleak hazel
I don't know, I like the original set of exalt types + exigents as the catch-all
Lunars are Lunar foils, Sids are Sid foils
or they can foil each other, that's fine
prisma sun
I think this is just sorta my aversion to WW-style "everything is one of like 10 things and there's nothing else edge cases aren't real"
bleak hazel
I feel it works better if there are kinds of supernatural badass that aren't exalts
"this is an exaltation which works like all the other exaltations, despite being frankenstein's monster or a glorified paradox spirit" just feels like they were desperately shoehorning more things into the PC category after realising that PC rules for Raksha or Dragon Kings were a bit wonky
fierce star
when like, playable non-exalts has never been a thing exalted has shied away from otherwise
ex2 had like twenty flavors of heroic mortals, rules for playable raksha (... technically...), jadeborn, dragon-kings
bleak hazel
the new guys also keep putting boots into the side of Lunar and Abyssal thematics while trying to wedge open a space for themselves, and it's not like Lunars and Abyssals have a long history of being robust and varied
(also kinda Sids, but Sids have a lot going for them so it's less of a big deal)
dense verge
dragon kings proudly returning in essence
also my hypercompressed rakan vibes summary as i view him is what if professor x was jagganoth. anyway look forward to that fucker maybe glancing at rivergame im running
fierce star
what if professor x was jagganoth
and just like that I like him about four times more than I did before
dense verge
rakan the kind of dude to shout TO ME MY GETIMIANS
bleak hazel
I like rakan as a bad guy but I am still going to extremely kill him
honestly if I ever did run that Sid/Alch heavenly robocop game it would probably have Rakan as the big bad villain because I do love an insane supernatural kung fu fight with an old master even if his minions are mid and lacking in style
prisma sun
If I were to run a sid game with him as an antagonist I would probably have him partially win before dying
by reshaping Destiny
bleak hazel
to do what, exactly?
prisma sun
iunno
I am not running a Sid game and have not had reason to care too much about it
my sid is much more on punching ghosts and fae
bleak hazel
fair, mine is Detective Exalted: Exalted Detective
in practice this means that Lytek gives him little side objectives to go poke into interesting exalts' buisness while he's out doing normal stuff
gold faction mostly because he ends up talking to more lunars and solars than average
prisma sun
I think Drifts ends up Bronze more than Gold
though is not really politically decisive enough to be in either camp
bleak hazel
Vigil was originally a vaguely gold-leaning independent, but he's ended up being polarised slightly by being in a party with three lunars and one very bronze bluesid
on average, every time the Lunars say something he becomes 5% more Bronze and every time Cherry says something he becomes 5% more Gold, because nobody in this party has an aligned agenda
but he spends more time talking to his fellow Sidereal
dense verge
ayesa is bronze right now because she thinks that the bureau of destiny are good guys and looks to the people in charge for what that looks like what they should be doing
prisma sun
Drifts is expected to be Bronze because Ten Hands Sif actually fought in the Usurpation
bleak hazel
all my Sids are basically convinced their job is a good and worthwhile one, but admittedly Gleam/Rival/whatever he's called this week does carry out his important destiny jobs by setting steppe nomads on people
prisma sun
whatever, go my stepp nomads
bleak hazel
he is a much worse person than Vigil, who is actually pretty nice for a noir detective
bleak hazel
the steppe nomads have a solar now, so battle plan "build a force big enough to keep some area of the scavenger lands safe when everything explodes" might actually be plausible
downsides, many abyssals, only some of which are chill (but some of which are, surprisingly, chill)
prisma sun
Drifts is going to have to punch so many Abyssals
bleak hazel
all my guys are fighting abyssals, and one of my guys is an Abyssal
(although he can't fight for toffee, my god, he has like four combat charms at E3)
limpid badge
also my hypercompressed rakan vibes summary as i view him is what if professor x...
cool! that's cool!
bleak hazel
Sidgame status: dice incredibly hot on largely unimportant tracking and social rolls
limpid badge
Drifts is going to have to punch so many Abyssals
whatever. go my dusk caste.
bleak hazel
mood at table decreasing because we know that all the bad dice are coming in the fights after this
(sid excellency is very good for decreasing the jankiness of any given bad dice, though, have to give it that)
that image is too damn large, one second
sid brains finely sharpened by proximity to fae
upper stratus
reminisicing about my 15 dice -2 tn investigation botch
fierce star
man I wish I was in more exalted games, but my work schedule basically precludes me joining anything that isn't a play by post or with a group already willing to work with it
velvet raft
Missed the discussion I prompted, but I feel overwhelmingly that Getimians should just be a faction of like 10-15 rebel Sids
You can still have Rakan Thulio, you can still have opposition to the Sids, heāll you can even say they have funky powers related to some bullshit if absolutely necessary
bleak hazel
I think that's too many rebel Sids considering the normal number of ronin, but if you bumped the Sid count up a bit then yeah, I absolutely agree
velvet raft
Give them some kind of replacement for normal astrology and prophecy but
Honestly, ātiny anti-fate Sidereal cultā sounds more interesting and fitting to me. They can be the brim-hats in WHAtelier.
3 or 4 named elders who have been famously hard to deal with and then blank space for whoever else might be on the roster
bleak hazel
for some reason my luck today is insane but only when testing dice bots
velvet raft
The lowered TNs for sids are really satisfying
bleak hazel
delicious big lines of bold text
coral wraith
for some reason my luck today is insane but only when testing dice bots
how is hypothetically average sid getting 17 dice, out of curiosity?
10 for attribute + ability, 3 for Excellency, 2 for Stunt, 1 for specialty is how high I got
velvet raft
If it's an attack with a light artifact weapon we can throw on another 5
bleak hazel
dex 5, swords 5, specialty in swording 1
+3 for wielding an artifact medium weapon
+3 for excellency
in practice it will be 19, because you'll have at least a level 1 stunt on that for +2 non-charm dice
E2+ Sid Melee going all out is then highly likely to spend 3m 1i on Inner Eye Strike to reflexively Aim, adding an extra 3 non-charm dice
and then if you have two swords and are in a clash that's another +2
so your range for withering attacks with medium weapons is 16 (pool and stunt) to 24 (going all out while clashing)
coral wraith
aha i see
bleak hazel
(Sid dirt-cheap excellency is a rare treasure, Solars spend 10-11 motes to go that hard to Sid 8m 1i even before you get to the various Sidereal efficiency boosters)
bleak hazel
max efficiency sid at bonfire anima pays 3m 1i total, because fuck you
I can do this all day
(until a water deeb pours a bucket of water over you, anyway)
fierce star
Hmm
Ways of Exaltation can mimic sovereigns
well tecnically it can work on any exigent
but it by-default works on sovereigns
I'm not sure there's ar eason to do so, though
bleak hazel
yeah, you can't get the Giga Anima, so it just makes you slightly more stylish
velvet raft
Oh huh Dex 1 combat sidereal is possible
tulip folio
You can do it pretty damn easily for Alchs too.
Especially if you're Ranged
Stamina for Parry and Perception for Ranged.
That character honestly, unironically wants Wood Dragon
Not for a single wood dragon charm
But for the 'Uses bows like quarterstaffs' that Knowing Wood Dragon has.
velvet raft
XD
bleak hazel
You know if I wasn't running for four total newbies playing Deebs I'd probably have a houserule that says "cost of your first charm used to de-godstat dex is waived"
mighty rover
bleak hazel
I love this one
One deviant tradition replaces the latter with the "tiger trampling" styleāa fierce rearing/slashing unarmed art learned from observations of horses that had, themselves, practiced the tiger style.
velvet raft
Jenna is the best
dense verge
actually misc do you have the houserule to not make linguistics necessary for literacy
bleak hazel
We'll have a hard discontinuity in builds between School Days and Bad North where I imagine there will be some juggling
but yes I should add that when I get up tomorrow
dense verge
shift 1 dot out of linguistics during the timeskip, spontaneously forget how to read
bleak hazel
Heptagram prank
velvet raft
The sorcery seven-section staff looks very fun
tulip folio
Flawless Predicted Attack
Coast 2m; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Uniform
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
This supplements an attack that benefit from Aim. One non-Charm die from Aim is replaced with a Non-Charm Success.
Increase the number of dice replaced added by one each additional time this charm is used in a scene, to a maximum of all three dice being replaced.
Flawless Predicted Attack
Coast 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Dual
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Vivisection of Thought From
This supplements an attack that benefit from Aiming against an enemy at close range, she also adds the dice from aiming to a withering attack's post-soak damage, a decisive damage roll or a gambit's initiative roll, in addition to the attack roll.
Pondering possible charms around a similar theme (Wouldn't have both in the style, I don't think.) and if either is interesting/fun.
fierce star
I think the first one is cheekier
bleak hazel
the first one is one of those things you're going to have to balance very very carefully, because it's pure cap-breaker
but I still like it more than the second one because that's just the Sid charm but slightly worse
which is where it should be, balance-wise, but is also boring
also, funny thing from the Ex3 discord
tulip folio
the first one is one of those things you're going to have to balance *very very ...
Yeah, that's fair. Turning a non-charm die into a non-charm success is a net gain. It's sorta why I tried to set it up as 'you need to keep doing this to get the big bonus' instead of frontloading it.
vale glen
I'm curious and figured I'd ask for help here, I'm trying to make an artifact 5 scythe that has the conceit of feeding off fear and malice and I figured its tree would involve forcefully instilling fear in opponents and then eventually the capstone would be a sort of warform that can deal decisive damage to opponents with that fear intimacy in them. I'm not sure how in line that is with artifact 5 weapons. Is that too much or too little?
tulip folio
That seems reasonable for the evocations
next delta
Definitely not too much: Artifact 5 stuff can be pretty wild (like summoning hurricanes or creating mini-volcanoes). I don't know if it's too little
prisma sun
one 5 dot lets you stop time
next delta
What is the "least impressive" published five dot artifact?
tulip folio
I wouldn't say Least Impressive but if you've got the Alchemicals PDF you might wanna look at Radiance.
Radiance is all about turning emotions into offence
It might inspire some evocations
bleak hazel
5 dots are "oh, go on" tier mechanically - you're not allowed to start with one by default and if you do a lot of your character concept is probably going to be Dude With The XYZ
so they get a lot of juice
Gorgon is probably relatively "normal"
vale glen
one 5 dot lets you stop time
Really, huh!
Well in that case I could probably make it go a little more crazy.
Hmmm.
Okay, scratch decisive
tulip folio
I've got a 5 dot sword for my Sid and it's 'A sword made of 2e-style starmetal. A god who died fighting the Lover and who's actions put an entire clan of souls beyond the reach of a contender for the greatest necromancer in this age or any other'. And even then, that's likely a Big Understated for a 5 dot. XD
vale glen
you layer up these fear intimacies right
and the one just before the warform lets you do it in groups
so say you get a group of people to have major fear intimacies toward you
5 warform just lets you rip one of their hearts out, exiled from this plain attack
I'll need a proper name for it hold one
Ill Omened Titan Star: Infinite Malice Across The Starry Bloodline Technique```"If you're afraid of me, I get to kill you instantly, so just, y'know. Don't be afraid."
bleak hazel
The level of power is basically independent of the level of flashiness
tulip folio
Evocations are not really given power based on 'dot rating'
tulip folio
A 3 dot and a 5 dot have equally powerful evocations, though the latter is likely to have more 'shape the world around you' sorts.
vale glen
Riiight okay gotcha
tulip folio
While a 3 dots is more likely to be more Narrowly Focused.
vale glen
Hmm, okay noted.
bleak hazel
If you write a capstone sword evocation in this game that just says "+4 accuracy" you have made something incredibly stupidly overpowered, if you give it Unlimited Super Mega Divine Skeleton Death Attack and it costs 30m 3wp you're probably fine
tulip folio
For a good example of that - One of the charms for Whirling Snowstorm (That 5 dot my Sid has) is Big and Flashy and World Changing but in an Actual Battle, it's not likely going to outdo 'I know solar combat charms' for Raw Battle Winning.
Diamond Dust
Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Unshackled Spirit Oath, Snowstorm Chill
Calling upon the final moments of Whirling Snowflake, the wielder briefly channels the power of a goddess burning her life to protect what she loves.
The wielder may unleash one of the following effects:
-She can knock back an enemy of up to Legendary Size, like a tyrant lizard or a warstrider, with a decisive attack. A hit drives the enemy three range bands backwards with a torrential avalanche; if flung into an obstacle, he may suffer falling damage (Exalted, p. 232) at the Storytellerās discretion.
-The wielder can shatter heavy fortifications into frozen chunks with a click of her heels, doubling her effective base Strength to determine if she may attempt a given feat of demolition (Exalted, p. 231). Success destroys the targeted object instantly, while failure indicates the wielder will need to spend at least a few minutes more to destroy it.
-The wielder can use Diamond to stunt other applications of incredible cold, such as putting out a burning mountain or forming a bastion of ice to halt an army. The Storyteller should enhance these stunts with benefits comparable to the above options.
Diamond Dust can only be used once per story, unless reset by upholding a positive Defining Tie towards the Yun clan or against the forces of Oblivion. The Dawn Caste anima power cannot reset this Evocation.
(Which is itself a tinkering with an existing canon set of gauntlet's big evocation)
Flashy, yes. Does Big Things, Yes. Raw Number Things? Eh, not so much.
vale glen
Right yeah this is kinda what I was thinking
coral wraith
There's an artifact in the Sid book that's just "funny shoes with a stealthy god trapped in them" thats a 3 dot, as an example for scope
Still has banger Evocations
tulip folio
A lot of 5 dots tend to be First Age or tied to an Incarne in some capacity.
Whirling Snowflake is honestly really underselling it as a 5 dot in her backstory but it's also the Centerpiece Of Jade's Story. XD
vale glen
I:E, if you're fighting a guy with a major fear intimacy towards you, when you hit him with decisive damage, you can choose to kill him in such a fashion as to spread his fear outwards with each of his allies or associates who have positive ties towards him suffering the same level of fear intimacy that he once had. Something like that
tulip folio
I think my question is: What sorta story does this artifact have? I tend to start with a story and work backwards from that towards effects.
Whirling Snowflake (ā¢ā¢ā¢ā¢ā¢)
Starmetal Reaper Daiklaive
When the Lover's Deathknights came for the Yun Clan, they spread poison. They spoke of the emptiness of life and the death of love. How the god they had sworn themselves to was a coward, that her gentle snowflakes would shatter and flee in the face of pyreflame. They had good reason to believe such, for Whirling Snowflake was a very minor goddess, barely more than a local elemental. She helped ease the cold and dark of winter but was not a war goddess, she could not hope to oppose such a foe.
Despite that, however, she would not abandon her people. She brought avalanches crashing down upon their armies of the dead, drawing deeper and deeper on power she did not have until her body broke apart under her. Even the bleak sorcery of the Lover herself was forced backwards, the raw might of oblivion shattering on the rocks of her deep care for her people. However, she could not last forever.
The laughing deathknight brought her shattered form before her clan and spilled her icy blood in front of them. To his shock, rather than destroying their faith, it galvanized the clan. The Yun clan is no more but those that knew of them say that not a single one bowed before the Lover Clad In Raiment of Tears.
Whirling Snowflake is a hilt without a blade, seemingly useless. When drawn by an attuned wielder, a blade of ice and snow forms, as fragile as its namesake but refusing to break no matter the pressure brought upon it. Creatures of Darkness are always Dissonant with Whirling Snowflake.
For example, to keep up with the one I've been using as an example. I set up some backstory details and thematics and that became charms that felt fitting for the story.
vale glen
Oh Iāve got that somewhere! Let me see if I can get it
tulip folio
The Yun Do Not Kneel
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Heart of the Yun
The Lover Clad In Raiment Of Tears could not make the Yun kneel. Nothing will.
If an effect would cause the wielder to become Prone, she can use this charm to instead keep her footing. This may be used when falling to reduce the damage suffered as if she had fallen one zone less and to land on her feet.
If the wielder dies, she always dies standing.
Ill Omened Titan Star is a weapon born of severe parasitic malice. Designed by a renowned blacksmith some several hundred years before its current owner acquired it, it was originally used by a Solar champion who grew bitter over his own strength. Noting that the only threats that would challenge him were those motivated by revenge or hatred, he slowly turned from his path of righteousness into deliberate acts of villainy, attempting in vain to create a foe worthy of his attention. When he realised that in his destruction of the villages he once saved that he had forgotten his purpose and damned himself to ever wander alone, without challenge or purpose, he plunged the scythe and himself into the pit of the underworld, impaling them both on the rocks of Stygiaās great abyss. Retrieved some decades later, the scythe had begun to cannibalise the corpse of the solar and consume what lay in his body, the roiling need for hate, the idea of strength purified into a singular idea, the scythe achieved a level of distinct sentience, along with a new much more sinister appearance.
Lined now with gems of restraint and wards to protect its user, it thrives on fear and hate directed at it, rerouting the body of its wielder to derive joy from the pleasure of inflicting horror. Flesh and ever grasping, Ill Omened Titan Star was christened such by its new wielder and had worn the title with pride ever since. ```Flesh Scythe of Malice, as they say
Itās a big old fleshy scythe, formerly buried in a solarās corpse tossed deep in the Stygian well, dug out because of its sentient hunger for combat and intentional fanning of negative or malicious emotions, itās found its way into the hands of an abyssal now
Very pleasant man
I mean, you know.
Comparatively
velvet raft
Canāt remember off the top of my head, are there any specific razor claw artifacts?
upper stratus
frost-thorn knuckles in AotC
also technically mela's coil includes razor claws but that artifact is stupid and never should've been made
mighty rover
"nail them to the sky" charm for Infernals
next delta
Warframe reference spotted
fierce star
IMO five-dot artifacts exist to give your GM rope
They make trouble and difficulties and story hooks
next delta
Hateful Spike: Increase the damage or Power generated by 1 against a target that holds a negative Intimacy towards the Infernal or vice-versa. If the negative Intimacy is mutual, increase it to 2.
lol
limpid badge
IMO five-dot artifacts exist to give your GM rope
i love my BLACK BLADE OF SORROWS and i love the DEATH RATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON
fierce star
DELEVI DEUS ANIMA: DESTRUCTOR OF THE SOULS OF THE GODS
... I should adapt Anima, The Song Of Fallen Angels to Exalted š¤
though it's rather above the power level of most SMAs
velvet raft
also technically mela's coil includes razor claws but that artifact is stupid an...
Why so?
upper stratus
you should not get to attune to two artifacts for the cost of one
next delta
It's a bit surprising it gets so many passive effects
No mobility penalties + immunity to several effects + the claws
fierce star
what book is mela's coil in?
fierce star
I feel like just the mobility penalties and claws at base is fine. It is a five star.
I don't feel like a two-for-one deal is inherently bad, but it does need to be taken into consideration for balance.
prisma sun
Seems fine to me yeah
bleak hazel
nah, attunement cost reduction to that degree is cracked before you even start getting into the evocations
which are just way too much movement for the essence level
next delta
I think it would normally be an evocation to get access to the inbuilt weapons?
fierce star
Eh, it's a five dot artifact. I haven't looked in detail at any of the evocations though the capstone looks baller in theory, and acknowledge they're probably imbalanced because it seems like every book gets at least one 'this is busted, how did it pass QA' (and arms being arms, it likely has more). You're saving five motes, that's likely around what you'd save from one fo the mote reduction charm effects, and that costs 8 or 10 XP, whereas in XP terms a five dot merit is equivalent to 45 XP
next delta
Yeah, but most artifact attunement bonuses aren't that powerful
prisma sun
A lot of artifacts come with a free evocation
next delta
That is true
bleak hazel
Eh, it's a five dot artifact. I haven't looked in detail at any of the evocation...
it's five committed motes, which is quite a big deal
generally bad vibes even for a 5-dot
fierce star
I do agree it has too many passives, I'd cut one and probably make the other an evocation, but I don't think in itself that 'five dot artifact armor with a built in light artifact weapon' is too much power for one artifact.
prisma sun
Full plate with built in smash fists because you're just punching them with the gauntlets would also make sense to mme
upper stratus
i don't think 5 dots of artifact should actually give you 8 dots of artifact and then also waive the mote cost for the second artifact entirely
next delta
it's five *committed* motes, which is quite a big deal
š¤ Are there charms that reduce committed mote costs?
fierce star
Yes, usually for having multiple weapons though I believe there's at least one exalt that gets it for armor?
next delta
Oh, true. It makes a lot of sense for multiple weapons (you can't really use them all at once).
prisma sun
Almost every light weapon is a pair of weapons that doesn't actually require both to use
next delta
Yeah, paired weapons usually just count as one artifact for that reason
prisma sun
Courante and Galliard are also really cool
bleak hazel
š¤ Are there charms that reduce committed mote costs?
only if you have multiple different artifact weapons - you pay full cost for the first one and then 1m only for each future one
so you can have your sword and your bow and so on
but there is no way to commit less motes to having artifact weaponry and artifact armour that I know of other than Mela's Coil
bleak hazel
I have realised that the fluffiest name for the artifact I am designing for my Sid is probably something like "The Panoply of the Broken-Winged Crane" and that has me tempted to give it a bit of vaguely infernal juice
(it's one hook-sword and one bracer with the Shield tag to go on the other arm)
tulip folio
"nail them to the sky" charm for Infernals
...I'll admit, I'm not 100% sure what part of this is Infernal? Yeeting someone out of the scene is funny but I'll admit I'm not sure how 'nailing someone to the sky' aligns with infernals.
limpid badge
Feels like a demon-prince thing to do, to me
mighty rover
the flavor text frames it as spiting the heavens
tulip folio
I...guess? I dunno...it seems kinda generic 'we hate the heavens' rather than the particular flavour of I Have Personal Issues that made Infernals so interesting.
But I guess it's based on Essence Infernals, who are much more 'generic anti-heaven rebels'
bleak hazel
Essence really likes being a generic anti-heaven rebel
That's two and a half splats at this point
mighty rover
Infernal, Getimians...?
bleak hazel
me being mean and including Lunars (the other half are anti-deeb)
tulip folio
Infernal, Getimians...?
1% of Sidereals š
bleak hazel
Both Infernals and Getimians feel like the individual character deals work way better as "do what you want" Solar-style wildcards rather than being lined up to fight Sids in particular, but I think Infernals are actually meant to be out for themselves and just have kind of samey "iconoclast" theming this go around
which in my book is cool when it's summoning a bunch of jade lion demons to trample on the temples of man for the glory of Malfeas, but comes off slightly whiny in the like three paragraphs of context Essence gives
tulip folio
I do love how 2e tries to convince you there's enough Sids involved in their Bronze/Gold split for it to be an important thing when each House only barely has enough members to put together an Aussie Rules team.
bleak hazel
I don't know why but I've gotten increasingly annoyed with fictional Rebels who don't actually seem to be rebelling for anything in particular lately
tulip folio
I think I'd have more space for Infernals as Rebels against the current order if literally every other splat wasn't either rebelling against the current order or shitted off with it in their own way. XD
bleak hazel
also what order?, there's a bunch
tulip folio
Not even the guys in charge of the current heavenly order are happy with it. Sids are miserable over how heaven is going. XD
bleak hazel
Does an infernal who Exalts in Iscomay just decide they hate bears this week?
It can't be "literally everyone is out to kill Sids", there's not enough of them and everyone would get like a limb of one, max
Heaven-storming timeshare
tulip folio
And the realm is already in civil war. XD
If the Infernals want the current order to burn, all they need to do is get a comfy chair and a drink
bleak hazel
I feel "Infernals are lit dynamite thrown in the direction of Heaven as Yozi revenge, with very little regard to accuracy" would work if Gets weren't already doing that better, at least
Infernals are pretty good nega-sids, they have strange orthogonal powersets, are based in a different dimension and spend lots of time politicking with powerful spirits and generally getting in each others' way because Third Circles are about as cohesive as the Celestial Bureaucracy on a good day
tulip folio
2e Infernals were a very different beast to Abyssals and more a reflection on Personal Failing. An Infernal is a hero defined by their failure but a hero none-the-less. Either embracing that flaws in themselves, trying to overcome it or acting in complete denial of it.
As the Yozi have a similar relationship with their own flaws.
Malfeas lashing out over it, SWLIHN in complete denial etc
bleak hazel
They still looked slightly like you mashed an abyssal and a lunar into each other really hard, but since both Abyssals and Lunars were miserable that edition it didn't matter much
tulip folio
Lunar, you mean 'thing that had to invent Legally Not A Charm because Eclipses exist'?
Some Lunar Knacks were cool but god damn Eclipses forcing them to be invented just to have 'thing the Eclipse can't steal'
bleak hazel
I'm steadily coming to the conclusion that the more Exalts 3e adds and the better and deeper the books are written the harder it is to give all of them meaningful thematic space, it just kind of becomes a mess where everyone runs into each other and falls over
this is almost certainly a personal vibes thing, I like a neat lineup
tulip folio
I think there's room for 'Variant Exalts' more than a tonne of new full exalts. Stuff where you tinker with the Base Tricks and leave the charm access mostly the same.
Like Pre-Breaking Of Caste Lunars turning up in a book to give rules for playing an old-school lunar
Or that pondering I've been tinkering with of doing Enlightened Jadeborn as Variant Alchs.
bleak hazel
It's not even a mechanical thing, it's just "there are so many god damn Exalts meant to be around mostly by default I can't keep track of it all, how does any faction manage to attempt a coherent agenda like this."
(maybe I should take a sabbatical to Autocthonia, it's so much less wild there even if I hear the food is a bit bland)
tulip folio
Hmm...pondering if there's an interesting way to do attunment/resonance for Jadeborn that fits 'Good with artifacts of all sorts' that isn't just 'Behold, I am resonant with everything like a solar'.
prisma sun
"Pick any two"?
tulip folio
I was pondering 'They're resonant with Jade + any artifact they had a part in creating or repairing'. So they're not resonant with an Ori sword they Just Found but they are with one they helped craft or restored to function.
tulip folio
Yeah. The intent was to sorta make it 'you can use anything but not everything'.
tulip folio
...I wonder what martial arts are the best choices for Alchemicals. As they don't get mastery/terrestial but they are able to combine native charms and martial arts and don't have 'be a bear' as a tempting alternative like Lunars do.
fierce star
'Whatever fits with the weapon you want to use' is probably a good one, but they do all work with unarmed* (*righteous devil sit the fuck down) so there is probably a good set of 'yeah, pick up these for utility'
Misc has been stanning Crane's utility a lot lately?
velvet raft
Hmm...pondering if there's an interesting way to do attunment/resonance for Jade...
Let them be resonant with 1-2 types of material at a time
But make it changeable as needed
(Either out of combat or maybe 1/turn)
Unrelated: I wonder if PAOC sids go around bugging their friends to let them borrow their artifacts, so they can learn the evocations for magical materials form
tulip folio
Enlightened Jadeborn (Variant Alchemical)
-Do not have Slots, they learn charms normally (At normal charm prices, instead of the discounted alchemical price)
-Have Terrestial-Level Martial Arts
-Can't learn spells. Can learn sorcerous initiations up to Solar *but* they only apply only for Merits, Workings and Counterspelling, no spells. However, in compensation, they are treated as knowing all spells for the purpose of Counterspelling.
-Evocations get the Favoured Discount.
Hmm...pondering if that's taking a lot more than it's gaining.
upper stratus
how's the charm stuff work with submodules
tulip folio
They'd still learn submodules as normal. It's just the initial charm that is Full Price (But no slot system).
bleak hazel
The benefit of being an Alch or Lunar is that you can combine all your charms with MA, no fuss required, so they love anything without major mastery benefits and don't really care about being limited to Unarmed or Unarmoured because you can get soak and damage in other ways
Crane is very good for them, as is VBOS, Black Claw, maybe a little water dragon or toad
(well, black claw is good for everyone, but still)
velvet raft
Centipede only has two mastery effects and is superb even without them
Styles that care about wound penalties or onslaught both get a lot out of combining with it, too
fierce star
how many MAs is too many MAs for a character that is neither MA supernal or a sidereal?
bleak hazel
Can't stop won't stop
This is entirely a vibes thing but I'd usually stop at 1 + some seasoning
especially if you're attribute based and can easily throw an onslaught negator and damage adder on top
The classic here is Crane + the first charm from Water Dragon, although you do have to go unarmed
velvet raft
I think if you're MA-favored and have multiple styles that work together and share weapons there can be good reason to combine them
bleak hazel
I need to ask in the Exalted discord how a couple of compatibility things work with Crane Style, its one of my favourite styles but is slightly fiddly to use as a Sid if you want to move into SMAs
velvet raft
But you gotta consider the ability cost, as well as whether the style you're going into has a whole bunch of charms that only work with the Form charm which are going to keep you out
bleak hazel
Generally if you're not a total combat wombat I would only go fully into a second style if you're done with the first
velvet raft
Yeah, definitely
bleak hazel
Doing something like Crane + couple snake charms for soakbusting + Flowing Water Defence from water dragon for combo as a Lunar is pretty great and is about as wide as I'd go
velvet raft
(Like Essence Fangs and Scales from Snake is extremely rad but requires you be using Snake form)
tulip folio
...I wonder if the Chains from Abyssal Armour Charms count as Fighting Chains or Whips for martial arts. As like, Live Wire Style is all about Metal Whips.
velvet raft
You mentioned crane + water dragon specifically on lunars before, is there some particular way they can take advantage of it?
bleak hazel
So there's a very good combo between Flowing Water Defence and Crane, you can flurry a full defence and a WD attack and then get Crane Form benefits on the off turn
The downside is that you don't have an easy penalty negator and you can't use weapons because they don't share a form weapon (unless you do something like wearing one razor claw and one hook sword)
If you're a Lunar you don't remotely care, throw on a few basic strength and Dex damage and accuracy charms, go deadly beastman for unarmed damage+unarmoured soak and walk on whistling
velvet raft
Ah, okay, so the point being Lunars are very good at fighting unarmed
And at combining their stuff with other stuff
Makes sense
bleak hazel
It helps that Crane isn't too dense on the mastery
(besides the capstone, ooh boy)
the primary downside is that crane form is hard to assume reflexively and so is Deadly Beastman, so until you hit fairly high Essence you will be needing to spend a bit buffing up
velvet raft
Is there a way to do Deadly Beastman reflexively? I was looking for one and couldn't find it
bleak hazel
No, it's the primary limit on it, but I believe there's an E4? charm that lets you assume an MA form when you go beast
tulip folio
Luckily Deadly Beastman is easy to justify when you're in the 'trying to talk them down/scare them out of the fight' phase before join battle happens š
'Do you really want to fight this?' assume form + intimidate
bleak hazel
you need the MA fully mastered, which for Crane is E4, so you can't cheekily glory sphere it either
velvet raft
Well, actually, there is one completely busted way to go into Deadly Beastman that I found
There's a charm in Many-Faced Strangers that lets you do Deadly Beastman reflexively at the same time as Towering
And makes them compatible
velvet raft
I think it's Essence 3?
tulip folio
Actually, on that topic - How much do people tend to let people set up scene-long effects if they know a fight will be happening very soon?
velvet raft
There are quite a few good ones, but it depends a lot on how the Storyteller describes scenes
And yeah, Essence 3
fierce star
This is entirely a vibes thing but I'd usually stop at 1 + some seasoning
Oh dear I was already looking at three, lmao
with possibly getting more because, i'm going to be entirely honest here
actually let me modify a movie quote to describe my problems
We had two bags of swaying grass dance, seventy-five pellets of black claw, five sheets of high-powered SMAs, a saltshaker half-full of fire dragon, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored terrestrial, masteries, armed, unarmed... Also, a quart of crane style, a quart of toad style, a case of golden jannisary, a pint of raw live wire, and two dozen attribute charms. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious martial arts collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that really worried me was the live wire. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of a live wire binge, and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.
Hah, there's only two grand daiklaves that have been detailed so far
Both are made of red jade
(The 5-dot one, volcano cutter, has no resonant charms so at least that's something)
upper stratus
they hadn't come up with resonant/dissonant in core book yea
fierce star
they did though?
velvet raft
Wait no yeah I remember it being mentioned in the bits on the various types of exalt
fierce star
oh
none of the example artifacts in core have resonant/dissonant evocations
so the concept existed
tulip folio
...you know what would be really funny? A weapon you can only learn some of its evocations if you're dissonant
'You and the weapon really hate each other and you're channeling it into beating faces'
fierce star
Spiteful Adorei
tulip folio
they hadn't come up with resonant/dissonant in core book yea
Which is funny as they still made Solars Resonant with everything, even though it means nothing for them at that point. XD
fierce star
i do love (sarcastic) how the core book specifies the artifacts there are designed for solars, and should do lesser things, weaker things, fewer evocations, or even nothign at all in the hands of other exalt types
IN TWO DIFFERENT PASSAGES
bleak hazel
this is very funny when you look at the bow that has one evocation, a dirt cheap button that just randomly gives you 15 initiative
press button to win fight
fierce star
'ah yes my dragonblooded duelist defiitely wants to have the blue jade dueling katana artifact in the core book, sicne I will be resonant with it and it was even made by a dragonblooded in the first age!'
NO
ILLEGAL
BANNED
solars only
get your own duelist sword
upper stratus
[deeb holding volcano cutter]: but im literally resonant with this
core book devs: fuck you
bleak hazel
as we all know, large parts of the setting were just locked off from all access when the dedicated RPG protagonists were removed
the reason there are so many unpillared first age ruins around is because there have been two indestructible guys crossing their arms in front of the door for a thousand years, and like in a pokemon game they don't stop doing that until some plot happens
tulip folio
the reason there are so many unpillared first age ruins around is because there ...
You joke but I mean, there is literally a manse locked off due to a solar filling it full of demons (Via a mother demon) and nobody can access it now until Solars Turn Up to let her go home by recinding her oath.
bleak hazel
but exalts love killing demons
they're like the best at that
that place should be surrounded by sworn hearths going LOOT LOOT LOOT like xianxia extras whenever a new pocket dimension opens up
upper stratus
yea anyone can killing demons. it's whatever man
upper stratus
this is very funny when you look at the bow that has *one* evocation, a dirt che...
i think the idea behind the passive effect is pretty cool and then its singular evocation is just like. that. what hte hell man
fierce star
a solar or luanr attuned to moonlit huntress
tulip folio
...I have missed this artifact bonus. It sounds nonsense
fierce star
BUT LUNARS SHOULDN'T GET THINGS FROM THIS BOOK, COREBOOK
it's supposed ot only be solars
god I hate
(solars shouldn't be resonant with everything)
bleak hazel
...I have missed this artifact bonus. It sounds nonsense
only evocation on this thing
the "five phases" are 1-3 non-charm successes on all stealth, disengage, awareness, and rush actions
tulip folio
(solars shouldn't be resonant with everything)
My stance is that Solars should be resonant with Ori, neutral with most. That still puts them at 'better than most'
fierce star
yeah
tulip folio
Without being equal to everyone at everything's best
fierce star
also can I be hoenst about soemthing
bleak hazel
this also encourages them to actually go get some orichalcum
fierce star
i'm surprised they didn't limit dragonblooded to only being resonant with their specific color of jade
tulip folio
Right now I think the Standard Dawn Plan is just go Murderhobo Dragonblooded.
Until you've got jade artifacts of whatever sort you need.
next delta
...I'll admit, I'm not 100% sure what part of this is Infernal? Yeeting someone ...
Iirc, it's a thing one of the third or second circle demons does to someone who asks the wrong question (but in Malfeas of course)
Ah yeah, it's Orabilis thing if you ask for "the mysteries of the world"
velvet raft
Playing around with a melee/VBOS Sid with Big Volcano Sword
tulip folio
Pondering what my sid would want alongside Single Point or if just 'solar melee + single point' is fine until SMA are available.
bleak hazel
I hope you mean Sid Melee + Single Point
the answer is "my god, yes, that's more than enough"
(although you'd want to be parrying with Sid Melee, so you'd need both at 5)
tulip folio
Hahaha
Yes, Sid melee. Sorry 2am not speak good
Single Point is A Lot but it's also one of the only Non-Hook Sword Sword Martial Arts. XD
velvet raft
Melee at 5 also lets you grab Instructive Strike
And the melee form if you really want it
bleak hazel
the primary downside to doing martial art + melee is that you end up with strange incompatible SMA suites because you can't default to "OK, everything works with unarmed"
(unless you slog up to E4, glory sphere PAOC Form and then add your martial art on top, anyway)
tulip folio
Yeah, that's a pity
fierce star
I keep looking at MAs for Responder (my alchemical) and going 'ooh that's fun, ooh that's fun, ooh that's fun'. I need an intervention.
like i'm already at thousand wounds gear + air dragon + turtle (third party, I think iki found it) and i'm like
other stuff is cool. Crane? I could add some crane. Black claw, VBOS? Supplement some unarmed stuff. Plus thematically I'll be helping design a homebrew one during the campaign.
velvet raft
It seems like just using melee for versatile going into enlightenment lets you come out of a weapon-using style and into an incompatible SMA very cleanly, though
Probably the best way to do Emerald Gyre With Sword or whatever
tulip folio
Clearly the sid book needs to give us some more Weapon-Using SMA
tulip folio
There's a sid expansion iirc?
bleak hazel
It seems like just using melee for versatile going into enlightenment lets you c...
enabling an SMA to use swords with Enlightenment doesn't make that SMA compatible with any martial arts that use swords
it basically tapes the SMA to the end of your Melee tree, compatibility with other MAs is strictly Versatile and Form Weapon only
tulip folio
...ah, that kinda really sucks, considering we've got a lot of Weapon Martial Arts.
And not many Weapon SMAs.
bleak hazel
yeah, it keeps getting my builds
the exception is PAOC Form, which lets you pick any three styles you know the form for (including melee/thrown/etc, if you have Enlightenment) and enable total omnicompatibility
next delta
is there another sid book
The Exalted kickstarters generally gets a "companion book" which is where they shove a bunch of the stretch goal material into (this might be an Onyx path thing in general?)
velvet raft
Does Enlightenment not make it a style weapon?
Core book only says style weapons have to be compatible
(I have core and nothing else on my cell phone)
next delta
Enlightenment is just an additional effect you get when using a charm
velvet raft
No I mean the melee charm
Something Something Enlightenment
Sorry, that was not clear
next delta
For everyone's reference:
So I think you are right that you can glom them all together by buying this charm a bunch of times?
bleak hazel
specifically, you're looking at "this doesn't make it compatible with other styles that use them" since you cannot buy Enlightenment for non-Sidereal styles
next delta
Ah, I see
bleak hazel
you can get enlightened into, say, CMOS and Obsidian Shards at the same time and pop in and out of existence swinging a greatsword around
next delta
So you can glom the SMAs together but not normal MAs. Interesting
tulip folio
Which feels a bit weird when SMAs are a bit samey in weapon options. Like they do differ but there isn't a Shining Point or a Righteous Devil among them.
velvet raft
Okay, that was the line I failed to interpret correctly
I had read it as āit doesnāt make melee charms versatile for the purposes of other stylesā
But on a second look thatās mistaken
next delta
Versatile also generally prevents you from combining multiple MAs plus the relevant combat tree right?
Versatile: Combat Ability Charms with this keyword can enhance attacks and parries with Martial Arts if the Sidereal uses a weapon compatible with that Ability. Versatile Charms from multiple combat Abilities canāt enhance the same action.
Oh, or do they mean you can't do melee plus brawl plus MAs?
bleak hazel
no, but hopefully the sid companion coming out soon will contain Amethyst Edge of Severance
which is Sidereal Sword Law
velvet raft
Ooooh
Okay, that helps a fair bit
Tragic lack of Scarlet Patterned Battlefield SMH
bleak hazel
it's either in the companion or the Get book
which will apparently have something like seven SMAs
depressingly the Sid companion has zero sid-unique things in it
next delta
Wait, not even charms?
tulip folio
depressingly the Sid companion has zero sid-unique things in it
...what, why not? Surely there should be like...Charms...
chilly sluice
is there gonna be a full Getimian book?
mighty rover
huh
chilly sluice
fair enough I guess
tulip folio
...what do Liminals have to do with Sids?
mighty rover
not what i would have expected
chilly sluice
Liminals are for me probably still the splat I have the least interest in
next delta
Same
fierce star
this seems to be a consistent opinion across the fanbase
chilly sluice
I don't really see their point
velvet raft
Iāve come around somewhat on liminal as ābasically just weird exigentsā
chilly sluice
Getimians have a lot of compelling themes to me at least
mighty rover
"Promethean and Geist were really cool" AIUI
chilly sluice
Getimians have a lot of compelling themes to me at least
(which I may be biased on due to Jennagame brainworms, and them having a lot of Excrucian parallels IMO)
velvet raft
Gets are the ones where I look at them and think āwhy arenāt you Siderealsā
chilly sluice
"Promethean and Geist were really cool" AIUI
which is valid I guess
but as the basis for an Exalt?
velvet raft
(which I may be biased on due to Jennagame brainworms, and them having a lot of ...
ā¦ you know what I could buy as part of the setting? Some kind of raksha-related exalt
next delta
iirc, Liminals are interesting for in-universe setting reasons because I don't think they are exalted in the normal way? In that there isn't some exalted soul thing?
fierce star
that's ssssorta the dream-souled
chilly sluice
a little yeah
velvet raft
Because the Excrucians and the Raksha are the same thing
chilly sluice
though the Raksha fucking hate Dreamsouled
fierce star
liminals are just... I dunno. I think they exist mechanically because the OG devs liked promethean and wanted more options for terrestrial-level games, but
chilly sluice
that also reminds me
I actually thought Hearteaters were really cool
fierce star
hell yeah hearteaters
chilly sluice
after reading their stuff
fierce star
hearteaters and sovereigns are the best thing to come out of exigents, also aurora is the coolest incarnae
I am absolutely biased
chilly sluice
ā¦ you know what I could buy as part of the setting? Some kind of raksha-related ...
I do think Getimians are very Excrucian in a lot of ways
their lives and world never existed to anyone else but them
and now they are a weird glitch-y not quite person, upsetting the normal order of the world
dense verge
gets are kind of the solipsism exalt
chilly sluice
they were also from the start meant to be kinda a foil to Sids IIRC
next delta
I think gets are neat
tulip folio
My concern with 'foil for sids' is that everyone's a foil for sids.
next delta
I think it would be funny to have one as an antagonist where they stopped the PCs from doing some terrible things in their world and hate them. But obviously the PCs have no idea who this person is or what they did to piss them off
tulip folio
Solars fight immaculates, Lunars are Salty Bitches, Abyssals want to destroy creation, Infernals wiped them out last edition...
Sids don't really need more foils
velvet raft
they were also from the start meant to be kinda a foil to Sids IIRC
They were, I just donāt think it works because the Sids are already their own foils
And everyone elseās
fierce star
hell, sids are their ow--yeah
velvet raft
I dunno, something about the Gets feels ā¦ inelegant
prisma sun
I only really know about them from like
the Sid book
so I don't have strong opinions
it's fun that Rakhan has a mini-boss squad
velvet raft
I could totally buy Rakanās Cult of Evil Rogue Sidereals
prisma sun
Yeah but there's also only like 2-5 of those guys
velvet raft
Who are basically the Brim Hats
I tend to think 4-10 fluctuating over the centuries, maybe with specific anti-fate powers they got in return for handing in their astrology, would be plenty disruptive
prisma sun
I think the problem is that there's so few Sids in general that even like 5 of them going rogue is a huge problem
velvet raft
I kind of think of that as a feature, personally
next delta
I feel like the devs should have not set a hard number of any exalt personally.
velvet raft
The Sids being a small club with intense personal relationships (and basically no relationships with any other humans due to Arcane Fate) is something I enjoy
prisma sun
It's one of those things they inherited that they decided to keep and then Problems Arose from keeping it
next delta
The Sids being a small club with intense personal relationships (and basically n...
That's fair. But I think being vague about the numbers is useful. Both to match people's sensibilities and so you don't hit the "oh huh, actually we used them all up" part lmao
prisma sun
I also like that gk the main problem is just that it stretches Sids so thin that you'd have to imagine that to accomplish anything they SHOULD be the most powerful of the Celestial Exalted
next delta
Oh, was the hard limit stated in the core book?
velvet raft
I also like that gk the main problem is just that it stretches Sids so thin that...
This might just be my civil service brain but āhorrible staffing problemsā feels appropriate to me XD
bleak hazel
I think you could keep all of that by adding maybe another 50
next delta
I wonder how often there are actually 100 Sidereals around. Some are dead and waiting for re-exalting. Did Rakun defecting permently reduce the number of Sidereals?
velvet raft
Thereās something about the number 100 which does it for me, I dunno
Isnāt Rakan himself still a sid?
tulip folio
https://i.imgur.com/pQlj4iM.png
I really do feel like 'most of these are one of a kind' was genuinely a poor decision with Exigents. It would have imo, been better to work with categories of gods that have a category of them, like Architects.
bleak hazel
So five or so sids have defected, a few more are rogue, a few more are dead or missing and we have statblocks for 30 or so, it's very possible to run out of Sids
prisma sun
I think that's way too prescriptive and just kind of defeats the point of Exigents in general