Exalted

[bleak hazel]

the standout element of Alch Craft, from what I can see, is the charm that lets you mass-produce many of a single mundane craft project

you can roll out whole housing districts

[wise ocean]

that said, Life-Severing Blow is very sauced for the concept I want to go for, I'm quite fond of this for abyssal duelman

[bleak hazel]

grab some Silken Armour at least

you could go for soulsteel linothorax

[tulip folio]

Material Reinforcement Matrix seems pretty nice for 'Doing useful things and you Also Get A Gold Whenever It's Helpful'

Toss some cloth across a chasm, make it strong, gold point and you made a bridge

...considering sids can't do ex on their own and alches can't do ex on their own...I wonder how Sid + Alch could go.

As a sid could provide Fate Buffs to help push the Alch further

'You are getting double 7s from the Alch and you're treating 5s/6s as a normal success from the Sid'

[bleak hazel]

Sids can only easily throw out -1TN on arbitrary tasks, and none of the Ascending Horoscopes work on Craft rolls unfortunately

[tulip folio]

Huh, kinda surprised that none do, since Serenity is about craft too.

[bleak hazel]

the -1s on Horoscopes are all a little more specific

a prophecy to bless an artifact project is very doable though

[tulip folio]

Also: Man, I do think more craft charms should be like this one. Like this is Doing A Cool Things, not just number fiddling.

[bleak hazel]

don't think that gets you to 200 succs though

more power needed

unless Alchs have a way to hand out non-charm dice on craft rolls anywhere

none of their anima powers do it

although they make Sids go nuts in the areas they do apply

because they get 40% more out of it than anyone else

[tulip folio]

Sadly unless they bring back Craft (Genesis), Alchs can't get a heap of non-charm dice on a craft project.

[bleak hazel]

ah, Battles can improve crafting with their Horoscope but only if you're in a smithing competition

classic Mars activities there

[tulip folio]

Alchs can get 5 non-charm dice on Medical Stuff but 3e doesn't have any 'medicine and craft overlap' like 2e did with Genesis.

...maybe if you're crafting Necrotech.

[bleak hazel]

the funny thing about the way the craft system is set up is that with the Solars they went fuck it and didn't bother calibrating the dice tricks at all

one roll

so all the stuff about increasing project terminii is completely pointless because what you should do instead is deploy enough raw power to finish anything in maybe three rolls out of the six allowed, to save craft xp on more rolls and get a partial refund for early completion

[tulip folio]

Is that the power of a solar crafter there?

[bleak hazel]

yeah, not even all out

basic stunt, 8 power-boost charms and exceptional equipment (which you can make yourself)

[tulip folio]

If you don't mind a silly question: How much charm investment does that even take? As the Solar Charm Tree is Fucking Huge.

[bleak hazel]

a solar could get set up to do this in a couple of hours in a random village

[tulip folio]

Oh, 8 is less than I expected

[bleak hazel]

50% of the tree is completely useless

maybe more, I haven't counted

even the "get more craft XP" charms are mostly obsoleted by the More Power charm cascade because more power obviates the need for more craft XP, so you only need a couple at most

you pay 10 craft XP per roll

there's also a Solar craft charm that allows you to gain three more craft charms that you don't have yet for one project per story, because they made the tree so bloated they had to arbitrarily hand out freebies

so really you need six unless you're building more than one Eye of Autocthon per mission

[tulip folio]

That's not so bad, though it does mean there's a lot of chaff.

[bleak hazel]

max power essence 5 solar with all the extraneous fiddly bullshit has a nearly 50% chance to build an artifact N/A first age project in one roll

although you're throwing so much craft XP at pointless power boosters at that point that you probably shouldn't, you roll at the end of the craft project timeframe so it's not like it speeds it up in terms of time

[tulip folio]

Is the abyssal craft tree just as bloated or did they streamline it for similar power?

[bleak hazel]

slightly streamlined, cut a lot of extraneous nonsense but left the core power boosters in

less strong though because they also cut the three-in-one charm pack

so you need two more charms for a given level of juice

N/A requires about 11-12 charms total, rolling in the two charm purchases to speed up the project from 10 years to a few months and the one that gives you more craft specialties without spending 19xp each

solar equivalent is 8-9

sadly, the cool Abyssal-only cursed objects subtree is locked behind some of the remaining bullshit you don't need

[tulip folio]

Aww. Also: Cursed Objects Subtree seems cool

[bleak hazel]

It's very cool, I can just never justify taking the two minor craft XP boosters in front of it when craft is already a gargantuan XP sink

Max power Sidereal crafter also needs 11 charms but only half of those are going to be pure dice or speed boosters, which is nice

and you only get the capstone at E5 so it's like a sixth or seventh of your character at that point rather than the entire damn thing like it is for E1 bob the builder, craft apocalyptic

[tulip folio]

What is Sid Craft good at, if you don't mind me asking? It's not a charmset I'm super familiar with beyond it has a 'Pretty Pretty Dresses' charm that lets you improve people's appearance.

[coral wraith]

Sid Craft is good at things that aren't Craft :p

In Sidereal tradition, it applies Craft in funny ways to other things

Like bringing people together over a meal you cooked as neutral ground, easing tensions and forcing heavy Willpower spends to get initiate any hostilities

It does do traditional craft stuff too, but I'm not familiar enough with the system to know how juiced it is at Making Thing

[tulip folio]

...hmm...pondering a defensive charm and how I'd price if for an evocation.

Basicly: If the attacker has an intimacy that would oppose them attacking you, you can apply it as a bonus to your evasion/parry. So it's a +2 if they have a minor that would oppose beating your ass, +3 if they have a major and +4 if they have a defining.

Limiting it to enemy intimacies felt like a way to get around the 'Yes but I Love Fighting' issue where you can tailor your own intimacies to support yourself.

Spilling Scarlet Truths
Cost: Xm; Mins: Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Dual
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Heart-Rending Innocence
Betrayals of loved ones cuts deep, a double edged blade that shakes both the victim and the betrayer.

When the bearer is attacked they can gain a bonus to Defence based on the highest intimacy the attacker had that would oppose them making this attack. A Trivial Intimacy provides a +2 bonus, a Major Intimacy a +3 bonus and a Defining Intimacy a +4 bonus.

[tulip folio]

Hmm...just using Raw Excellency it would be 2 motes per +1 so 4 motes would cover the +2, 6 with +3 and 8 the +4 but the +4 is almost never going to happen/the +3 is also pretty damn unlikely.

Maybe 3 motes?

[bleak hazel]

Seems reasonable

Black Claw loves this but Black Claw already has Doe Eyes Defence

[tulip folio]

Yeah and the characte it's for I think is physically incapable of learning Black Claw. She's not got a single cynical bone in her body.

...I'm not sure if she's got any bones at all. Alch and all. XD

checks doe eye defence
Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a big one.

[bleak hazel]

it may be slightly too stronk honestly, but it is very funny

[tulip folio]

'Eat between like 5 and 9 dice penalty on this attack'

[bleak hazel]

bonus points for using this with Sidereal Soul-Fire Form, which can turn the initiative earned from the mastery effect into motes at a 1:1 ratio

charm now free if enemy has a defining intimacy and costs only 2m at Minor

permanent birthday boy mode

[tulip folio]

Hahahah

'You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, would you?'

Anyway, yay. Got 5 charms sorted for this artifact armour. Kinda on the low end for a 4 star artifact but it's plenty of start at least.

[bleak hazel]

5 is the spread the Sid book silken armour has, you're probably fine

[tulip folio]

Yeah, ti's 2 based on 'innocence' and 3 based on 'undeath'. 2 essence 1, 2 essence 2, 1 essense 3. Should be good.

Ghost-Lit Duty
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Raise the Skeletal Horde
Under the ghostflame light of Innocent Oblivion, the dead rise again to defend what they did in life.

When you Raise the Skeletal Horde, instead of Zombies, you can instead raise Ghouls. Ghouls are treated as Militia, except they are Mindless and Undead. When you raise multiple Size worth of zombies, you can divide the raised undead among any type of undead you can create.

Ghost-Lit Heroism
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 3
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Ghost-Lit Path
Moving in skilled formation, great champions of the dead rise, each the match of a skilled veteran.

You can also raise Revenants with Raise the Skeletal Horde. Revenants are treated as Grizzled Mercenaries, except they are Mindless and Undead.

With a chunk of the undeath stuff being 'Hey, get Slightly Less Mooky Zombies'.

Grizzled Mercenaries are not that good at what they do (Either 7 dice to hit with an axe or 9 with a dagger) but they're a good step up from Zambies

Militia are basicly 'zombies with a ranged attack' but hey 'a ranged attack' is nice for zombies. XD

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah - Sid Craft is the lowest-power celestial craft tree because it doesn't get the otherwise universal double 9/8/7s charm, so Sids end up able to complete artifact 4 reliably at the highest and then oscillating around a 50% chance of finishing an A5 depending on their exact essence level and how hard they stunt

the upside is that it's an absurdly wide-ranging toolkit

aside from stealing the Maidens' secret stash of magical girl outfits it has one of the best healing spells in the game with no prerequisites, a bunch of good social charms and World-Shaping Artistic Vision

which is one of 2-3 parts of the Sidereal Prep Time kit

a sid fighting you in a situation that aligns with their WASV specialty can throw solar full excellency levels of dice on an attack for 3m to the Solar's 10, it's nuts

[tulip folio]

So it's a great 'craft as a support tool' charmset, not 'craft as a way to Turn Downtime into Artifact Dots' charmset.

[bleak hazel]

they can still make stuff, but yeah, they don't hit the stupendous levels of raw power necessary to go almost infinite on artifact creation and make five daiklaives at once

mote efficiency, healing, all the stuff that would in previous editions have been called Craft (Fate)

[tulip folio]

...huh...looking over this, this seems really good for that Jadeborn-Blooded Sid I have sitting about.

I'm looking at Elemental Vision

Which would affect Earth for her.

[bleak hazel]

at higher levels you can Craft social groups, so E3 craftsid just rocks up and throws down a Size 5 resistance movement in a few hours by usng Fortuitous Fellowship and the major project speed booster together

it's an extremely high-powered bureaucracy ability that Sid Craft made earlier

[tulip folio]

Ah and I see they've got Craft(My Wife) in the charms. XD

[bleak hazel]

also your Crafted organisations act as gold point farms to fuel actual artifact production

[upper stratus]

using my ability to make artifacts to kake artifact 4 crafting tools with a double whatevers evocation so that i can make artifact 5 crafting tools with which i create arti- (my st drags me off stage)

[bleak hazel]

I have been tempted

[tulip folio]

Wife-Procuring Tailfeathers seems both super specific but also really god damn powerful if you can make use of it.

[bleak hazel]

I feel that if I raise a 5-dot atelier manse I have to be able to get a few non-charm equipment dice from that

oh yeah, and the capstone solves your efficiency problems by just allowing you to start a 3d printer and hit the beach for a month until your 5-dot is done

white points from normal artifact crafting either go into Implicit Construction Methodology or into paying for regular prophecies, which is neat

[upper stratus]

man i want manse rules

[bleak hazel]

the other big benefit of Sid Craft is that only a couple of charms use Int and neither of them are core crafting competencies

the heal charm works fine with Int 1

instead, everything cues off Charisma

or Appearance, if you want

so this was secretly a social tree in disguise

[tulip folio]

Oh, Untangling Snarled Strands is cute.

[bleak hazel]

me when I run my durability, crafting, social and astrology off Charisma

[tulip folio]

You 'fix' someone being an enemy of fate

'Yes Bob is a demon but he's my friend so we're cool with him'

[upper stratus]

if you put an ability in house of sereneities anything can become a social tree

[bleak hazel]

the only thing that is mildly irritating about sid craft is that you only get your artifact speed booster at E3

which makes it kind of pointless to build any artifacts until then unless your game is very slow

usually they're E2

[tulip folio]

Oh, this is the charmset with the 'hey, we're letting Lieger out for a while'

[bleak hazel]

Sid Craft can make so many bad decisions

honourable mention to Sword-Queen's Foretold Blade, one of my favourite charms in anything ever

[tulip folio]

Hmm...think Craft(Geomancy) would be silly on a sid?

[bleak hazel]

the annoying thing about geomancy is that the core book states you need Craft (Architecture) to learn it, which means you're up to four fully learned craft specs/10 ability dots and 1 charm to get Artifacts and Geomancy, with only one standard issue mundane craft among them unless you're building lots of bridges

ask your GM if removing this stupid rule is right for you

[tulip folio]

The GM in question treats craft types like Lore Backgrounds, not full skills.

[bleak hazel]

that is the sensible thing to do, yeah

usually specialties

in which case sure, load up

you are going to have some trouble getting max value out of the discount wyld-shaping one, Sids struggle to reach 100 succs

[tulip folio]

Makes sense.

They also scrapped craft(artifact) for 'If you have craft(bowyer) in your crafting list and meet the other requirements, you can make an artifact bow etc'

[upper stratus]

there's a 'simplified craft' ruleset in crucible that sorta does this but with specialties yea

[bleak hazel]

annoyingly it doesn't actually work because it just leaves rewriting the entire rest of the craft system to the GM

Exalted loves to tell the GM to draw the rest of the fucking owl

the specs part is the most sensible houserule, though, and also allows you to delete all the silly craft dot duplicator charms that everyone needs

[fierce star]

I thik just htat one alone solves most of the base-level issues

[tulip folio]

I'm kinda glad for the latter part as I've never liked craft(artifact).

As it always read as Craft(Things That Actually Matter)

[fierce star]

it annoys me that by base ex3 rules you can't be an omnicrafter without investing in a thousand different skills, but knowing how to use a sword? SPear? Hunga-munga? Blunt end of a frying pan? Axe? Mace? Axe-Mace? Swordchucks? All the same skill fam go ham

[tulip folio]

Hey now, blunt end of a frying pan is brawl. It's the one here that's not the same skill 😛

[bleak hazel]

everything below artifact level in terms of personal gear is so inexpensive that it's generally assumed you just have it, so yeah, it's kind of pointless to have non-Artifact swordsmithing

technically they have resources costs but they're very silly ones

[tulip folio]

You're also an exalt. If you don't have a sword, the odds are before the end of the session you can have gotten one.

Even if you are 0 resources broke

[bleak hazel]

yeah there's all these kind city guards walking around who can donate swords to me, Night Caste Johnny Nocash

[fierce star]

I thought improvisedw eapons were brawl or melee

yeah

they're useable with either

regardless my point stands!

[bleak hazel]

there are two things I don't like about Sid Craft and both of them are very minor

a) I would like one more power charm please, I want 5-dots at Essence 4 and b) to get to Fortuitous Fellowship and conjure institutions out of nowhere you need to go 4-deep into the My Wife subtree, and +1 appearance is not very useful for most of my Sids

[fierce star]

...

does anything other than the core book use the Bridge keyword?

[tulip folio]

...the what keyword?

I don't even recall it

[upper stratus]

nope

[bleak hazel]

this exists entirely for Solar Integrity

which as a result is barely a coherent tree on its own

[fierce star]

like lunars have a similar thing with arche--ah.

god I hate the third edition core book

[bleak hazel]

because nobody must ever be able to convince a Dawn Solar not to stab them even if said dawn couldn't be bothered to buy any social charms

just use melee as the prereqs for your No Thoughts Head Empty social defences

[upper stratus]

integrity weirdly broad tree. resolve boosters, maintaining your form against sorcery all fits into integrity but then there's also martial arts bridge charms that make you meditate good? idk what's going on

[tulip folio]

Oh, I know Achitects got some of that!

[fierce star]

i just tried to read destiny-manifesting method

I think i'll just leave solar integrity in the box

[tulip folio]

Keystone: Keystone Charms can be learned as Charms of alternative Attributes if the Architect has them as Foundation Attributes, using different minimum Attributes and potentially enjoying Keystone discounts. Keystone Charms have alternative prerequisite Charms from this second Attribute, unless they have no prerequisite Charms or their prerequisites also have Keystone. This extends to the Attribute minimums of any automatic upgrades or repurchases of the Charm, but not to any dice rolls or other calculations involved.

Architects have this.

[bleak hazel]

that's just Lunar Protean

not the same thing

[fierce star]

yeah, lunars have a similar thing in Archetype

[upper stratus]

unfortunate naming on that too sheesh

[bleak hazel]

don't you love a charm that has a sidebar longer than it right next to it?

[fierce star]

Archetype, not Protean, Protean is 'when in a form wiht X thing, get Y benefit'

regardless, yeah, it's the same sorta like, thing there. Solar interity is... different

jesus christ

what is this charm tree

[tulip folio]

Bridge seems like a much less intuitive/much more fiddly version.

[bleak hazel]

Destiny-Manifesting Method is meant to be a less-ironclad Shaping Defence, but it basically amounts to the Don't Instakill Me charm and is also really struggling from the lack of a good keyword

I do like the idea that if a Sid turns Fightgar the solar into a teddy bear, Fightgar will still have a little orichalcum sword and shield with which to use his 10 melee charms

[fierce star]

this is the capstone

this is

I, hm.

I don't want to be That Lunar GUy but 'transform your essence into an aspect of creation by shedding your mortal form and desires' feels more lunar. Or, hell, even sidereal. THan solar?

[bleak hazel]

yeah the corebook was very happy to hand out everyone elses' gimmicks

check Fate-Shifting Solar Arete for a second if you want to see them handing out Literally A Sidereal Charm

[tulip folio]

Hell, if you joined the elements around you, I'd honestly allow that in Dragonblooded.

An air aspect monk meditating and literally Becoming Air

[bleak hazel]

also Celestial Bliss Trick, which used to be an evil bastard manipulation move for Venus Sidereals to do deliberately fucked-up James Bond shit with

[tulip folio]

But...not really Solar

[upper stratus]

i hate fate-shifting solar arete so much it's unreal

[bleak hazel]

but was given to Solars and had all the context removed so now it's "you're amazing at sex woo, go you"

[fierce star]

yeah, limited to elemental manifestations of the idea that's perfect for high-essence DBs

... hell I think that was a DB essence like... 6 or 7 charm in ex2?

[bleak hazel]

some of these charms are very pointless

[tulip folio]

...Celestial Bliss Trick feels skeevy in a way that even the other 'Exalt Sex Charms' generally don't.

[bleak hazel]

"if five solars spend 5m 1wp each, you each get +5 resolve, which you could get anyway by throwing your excellency at the problem for about the same cost"

[bleak hazel]

this is because it's a horrible scumbag psyche move from Sids with all the commentary removed

it's meant to be the personal version of Cash and Murder Games

(also monstrously overpowered, but still)

I am very happy that Sids have a button that just blows that move to hell as one of the entry-level integrity picks

[upper stratus]

'The Exalt performs the body-mudra of sighs and whispers' is such a funny opening sentence for it like can u guys be fr for a minute

[fierce star]

n a t u r a l l a n g u a g e

[bleak hazel]

only for three minutes though

immanent solar glory (very brief)

[tulip folio]

'Lasts at least three minutes'

I'd fucking hope that 'at least' is doing some serious lifting.

[fierce star]

if I wasn't going back to school and employed full time, and also wasn't somewhat approaching sane, I might try to rewrite the entire solar charmset to not be ass, but I have neither the time nor the madness

[bleak hazel]

Sids have Dream-Sacrificing Maneuver, which allows you to point at the intimacy from Celestial Bliss Trick and atomize it whenever someone attempts to use it to get you to actually do anything

nope, sorry

[fierce star]

frankly this charm tells us many things about the original line devs for ex3 that frankly, we probably were better off not knowing

[upper stratus]

look i need a defining tie pronto im on a schedule here

[tulip folio]

Alchs have some pretty creepy social charms but they also tend to put them in the 'you are a creepy fucker doing Mr Smith bullshit' tree.

[bleak hazel]

this is the same reason I like the Sid socialize tree being what it is

it is extremely open that this is a tree for horrible people doing horrible things, it literally writes it in the stars

[tulip folio]

Like Rogue Cell Isolation Protocols does some Horrible Shit but it's also very open about 'Oh, you are Doing Some Horrible Shit'

[tulip folio]

Like those submodule names

[bleak hazel]

Sid socialize's constellation

[tulip folio]

'Emotional Irrelevance Systems' 'Mind-Scouring Erasure'

[fierce star]

I think my favorite alchemical social charm in that like

tier of horrible things

is personality override spike

it gets teh point across

[tulip folio]

Manipulation Alchs: "HAVE WE MENTIONED WE'RE ASSHOLES TODAY."

[bleak hazel]

I will continue to cheer for Cash and Murder Games despite none of my sids being high enough Manipulation to use it

it's wireheading from BZRK

[tulip folio]

I do love this one conceptually as it's just 'I go into my task manager and disable empathy.exe'

[upper stratus]

bzrk

[bleak hazel]

young adult series about nanobot spy wars

first one good, rest kind of clumsy

good for Sid inspiration though

they do like setting itsy bitsy spiders on people to run threads through their brains and get them to do stuff

[tulip folio]

Loviatar, that Sid Witch I mentioned is all about Cash and Murder games (When she's got enough essence to learn it).

Because she's a social hatchetman, not someone who works in Genuine Love or something.

[fierce star]

a sidereals game that consists of 5 dedicated shitstirrers, one from each caste

I volunteer my greensid who keeps thinking in stories and firmly believes that using people's secrets (true or not) to make their lives more interesting is an inherent good

[tulip folio]

Loviatar: "Look, my job today is to go into town and tag 2 people with Shun the Smiling Lady because their fate says we need them sad. I fucking hate my job."

[bleak hazel]

solar integrity is also very big on the "five sentences of hagiographic fluff" stuff

which makes the charms Way Too Long

[fierce star]

they read like a prayer book

this is perhaps appropriate thematically but doesn't make them particularly useable as game pieces

[tulip folio]

That's not fair ID. Most prayerbooks are designed to be used, so they're not any longer than they need to be 😛

Solar Charms are worse

[fierce star]

god

[bleak hazel]

the Abyssal version of Destiny-Manifesting Method is way more sensible because it can just use the Shaping keyword

first purchase - add Essence (min 3) successes on rolls or static values against shaping, no shaping effect can deprotagonise you
second purchase - roll essence + willpower to defend against unrolled shaping
very neat

[tulip folio]

Seems legit and fair

Also seems kinda 'baseline anti-shaping tool'

Which is a good thing

It doesn't need to be weird, it needs to stop shaping coherently.

[bleak hazel]

the Sid one is kind of fun because it's not quite as strong but it does also work on any kind of Essence Fuckery

cost 1wp (or 3a, for some reason)

[fierce star]

LUnars: "Baseline anti-shaping? You mean not being casteless?"

[tulip folio]

3a is a nice alternate cost.

Makes it very 'I will die before I accept this'

[bleak hazel]

moonsilver tattoos don't actually provide mental shaping defences

you can still eat the version of Pattern Spider Touch that replaces your identity

[tulip folio]

I remember Infernals in 2e had a Malfeas charm that let them spend health levels instead of willpower to resist effects.

As you refuse to ever bow again

No matter how much you bleed

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah Sids have that too

flavoured as cultivation-style "spit blood from grievous insult"

[tulip folio]

Makes sense. Sids and Infernals are both very 'Spit in the face of the executioner' themed. XD

[fierce star]

Oh, sure, but I have always appreciated that lunars cover roughly a third of all the shaping defenses you want by just existing

[bleak hazel]

I've always liked Infernals as nega-sids

[fierce star]

(unless you're casteless)

[tulip folio]

Solars are brave because they'll win. Infernals and Sids are brave because they'll lose without ever taking a step back.

[fierce star]

(this ist he price you pay for xp cost fuckery)

[bleak hazel]

they too have a base in another dimension where they engage in stupid politicking and then head into Creation to make some moral compromises, baby

[tulip folio]

They also both spend a lot of time thining Yu Shan is full of assholes 😛

[bleak hazel]

hey, Malfeas is also full of assholes

[tulip folio]

True but I think they also spend a lot of time thinking that one too

[bleak hazel]

yeah

Sid/Infernal is a fun hypothetical party comp

[tulip folio]

Also: Wanting and Fearing Prayer is beefy but man, Essence 5 is a long way to go for that effect. XD

I suppose that's what you pay for 'Oh yeah, willpower can't be spent to resist this intimacy. Have fucking fun'

[bleak hazel]

"so I know we're on opposite side of this spy game, but this deathlord guy - you want to go gank him?"

also allows you to steal "Heaven and Hell, Let's Rock" from Guilty Gear

[tulip folio]

Honestly, I think that would genuinely really work. Infernals for all their 'I want creation to burn', want there to still be a creation afterwards, just one that is more about them.

It kinda puts them on the opposite side to 'Hey, maybe reality shouldn't exist?'

[bleak hazel]

infernals are also like Alchs and Lunars in that they have a lot of incredibly obvious raw power that doesn't get too oblique about things, so they pair well with Sids

Sid: "three deebs, the fire aspect who doesn't want to be here is facing the window, get his two friends first and he'll probably throw in the towel"
Infernal has already kicked the door in and activated some kind of Shintai

[tulip folio]

Sid + Ebon Dragon Infernal would be just Maximum Douchebag.

[fierce star]

Sid is playing Payday. Infernal is also playing Payday.

[bleak hazel]

you can even use Sid Craft to fix up anything the infernal accidentally breaks

[fierce star]

They are not the same.

[tulip folio]

Sid: "So I made all your friends think you're an asshole!"
Ebon Dragon Infernal: "And I made it retroactively true as far as historical documents are concerned!"

[tulip folio]

Infernal: "I just wanted to test if the gun was silent." (I am never living that down)

[bleak hazel]

Hoxton Infernal would be quite fun actually

[fierce star]

No, iki, you never, ever are

[bleak hazel]

man I should play some more Payday 2

that game was great

[tulip folio]

In my defence, it was like 3am. I was 95% sure I'd put a silencer on the gun but I couldn't see it on the model. XD

[fierce star]

lol

and IIRC we did pull the heist off so like

[bleak hazel]

my stealth build had a giant silenced shotgun instead, because firing it from the right angle would launch dead guards into corners without me having to burn bodybags

[tulip folio]

We did. We just had to Go Loud in the Sneaky Outfits.

[fierce star]

ah yeah, the shotgunapult stealth trick

[tulip folio]

they're not omni-applicable like solar social charms are but god I love how many Alch social charms are 'Won't you do this...FOR AUTOCTHONIA?' Patriotic Soviet Anthem Plays

[mighty rover]

wheeeeeeee

[tulip folio]

...I wonder where the 'Even bigger than bonfire' animas fall with that. As they're only a thing for one exalt type.

[bleak hazel]

the sun is only def 5? the daystar is slipping

[fierce star]

Out to medium, presumably?

[bleak hazel]

need to get another sid to brush it up on its kung fu skills

[tulip folio]

Yeah, medium would make sense. As you're fighting a solar eclipse with the aurora borealis

[next delta]

Cursed by the corebook maximum difficulty being 5

Oh this is essence, whoops

[bleak hazel]

while the Daystar was very silly and it's probably good that it got scrapped, I do like this sidebar from its writeup

assuming the Sun is just The Sun, this is probably still doable as one of those in-universe legendary feats

[tulip folio]

'Oh shit, the yellow sun and the green sun are piledrivering each other'

Hmm...pondering for an exalt what sort of benefit you'd add on for an exalt's 'You do magic' charm where they can do Workings and Counterspell but can't actually learn any spells

Basicly: pondering up that 'Enlightened Jadeborn as a Variant Alchemical' idea. One of the odder things with Jadeborn was they had really powerful Geomancy but couldn't actually do quick and dirty sorcery.

They could break magic and do Big Enviromental Stuff but not cast spells

[fierce star]

maybe some bonus with Finesse? Always treat finesse as being one category higher?

or count as having additional means

[tulip folio]

Maybe. Was pondering since they can't learn spells/don't get a free one for picking up the charm, they always count as knowing the spell for counterspelling.

So they do 1:1 sorcerous mote reduction instead of the 1:2 you do if you don't know the spell

[fierce star]

that's also legit

[tulip folio]

As they're good at this but can't actually learn spells

My plan is to list a couple of charms that are 'you can't take', add a couple of homebrew ones to make up for it and give them some unique base traits that make them play a Bit Differently but not insanely so.

Like they won't have 'become a colossus' or vats for hotswapping charms.

But they won't have charm slots either so while they'll have less available charms, they'll have all of them accessible at a given time like most other exalts.

Though my current 'Hmm...not sure' is how to set up the castes with attributes.

Lunars go 'Each category has a caste'

Alchemicals go 'each caste gets 1 from each category'

Pondering what would be interesting for Jadeborn here.

Worker: Stamina, Perception, Charisma
Soldier: Strength, Dexterity, Manipulation
Artificer: Intelligence, Wits, Appearance

Could have them not really split evenly but more on 'general themes'. As Int + Wits are 'crafting' charms etc

Any thoughts @fierce star?

[fierce star]

I like that spread! Hits more the themes, and, well--a 'minor splat' doesn't have to follow patterns established by major ones, you know?

Hmm. Normal martial arts requirements and the Terrestrial keyword, but have Soldiers have an anima power/passive effect that removes it (as a ribbon, so as to not make all of them martial artists)?

[tulip folio]

I was looking at keeping them in the same boat as Alchs, where they're 'no mastery but no terrestial' but could tinker with that.

[fierce star]

legit

[bleak hazel]

that is also Lunar tier, yeah

I would honestly make them Terrestrial judging by prior jadeborn power levels but that doesn't line up too well with the Alch splat

which adores martial arts because hey, infinite charmslots

my current Alch is probably going VBOS because it only has two minor Mastery effects and mixing it with alch murder charms covers the weaknesses of no armour and reliance on doing some chip damage to get the wound penalty spiral going

[tulip folio]

Silly Pondering: Terrestrial Martial Artists but they treat Evocations as Favored for purchasing. As even the non crafters are masters of USING artifacts.

[bleak hazel]

I like that, gets a bit more out of Alch type-specific resonance

[tulip folio]

Also helps I feel Tie them to the idea that they're about works of wonder without them always being A Crafter

If that makes sense?

[fierce star]

I dig it

[bleak hazel]

Trying to find a way to give -1TN to an allied attack roll that isn't a prophecy or Battles Horoscope

I may have an extremely stupid gimmick combo

[fierce star]

I feel like that's in 'custom evocation' territory, i'm not aware of anything within my usual wheelhouses that could do that

[bleak hazel]

Well, I'm hunting through the Sid charmset because if it's anywhere it'll be here

[wise ocean]

alright chat how do we rate Hungering Maw of the Waiting Grave as an abyssal name

[bleak hazel]

Dusk/10

[mighty rover]

🔥 🔥 wait it's an abyssal so uhh :evilfire: :evilfire:

[bleak hazel]

OK, stick a battles Horoscope and a prophecy on a solar circle sorceror, they cast death ray and FSSA it for TN5, treating 4s and 3s as 10s for a total of 1.1 successes per die

Rolling 23 dice with a stunt, 31 successes with willpower, everyone in front gets beamed for init+willpower+extra successes damage every turn they maintain the spell

(this is probably why FSSA should not exist, but it's funny to beam FAFL off the board in maybe four turns)

[fierce star]

Actually that feels more Midnight than Dusk to me

either way definitely an abyssal name of all time

[wise ocean]

I have killed the part of me that cringes, I needed a name to match this guy's absurd degree of duel autism

[bleak hazel]

I have a personal policy that TN reduction should never be on things that aren't Sidereals (or presumably Getimians when they come out) because allowing any splat with widespread access to rerolls to get any of it completely explodes the dice curve

The new devs stuck to this too until the Alch draft, where they have printed some completely insane smashfists that reduce target numbers, grant rerolls and allow you to do totally insane flurries

[fierce star]

I memory hole those gauntlets yeah

my opinion is that TN reduction should be sidereal-only, but can be allowed by other splats in specific, very limited circumstances and in a weakened form, and only from an external source that is not easily replicable in-setting; evocations are a perfect vessel for that since technically no two exalts share the same evocations for an artifact

those smashfists are widely overshot so I don't consider them a proper use of this concept

[bleak hazel]

I'm not sure what that actually gets you over just not doing that and providing other buffs that don't combine explosively with normal dice tricks

especially since in practice, artifacts are written to be used and lots of people are going to be deploying the exact artifact printed in the book with all kinds of builds

[fierce star]

I mean realistically I'd only do it for like... I dunno, an artifact that's a pair of pattern spiders who fell in love with an exalt and something something godforged flesh something something direlash something something limited to certain patterns of like, usages. It'd be because the mechanics match the thematics of what i'd be going for, because I, personally, prefer soft limits in design over hard limits. Like, if a solar had an artifact that was a pair of razor claws from the God Of All Birds and it let him turn into a sparrowhawk for a short period of itme, even though that's a Lunar Thing, I'd be okay with it as long as it is much more limited and much less efficient.

it's just a personal design thing, basically?

soft limits feel nicer

It's like in GMing, 'yes, but' tends to be better than just 'no', y'know?

[bleak hazel]

they are, however, really really bad for balance in a game that has 3000+ unique blocks of rules exceptions that you get to combine in basically any way you want

[fierce star]

Yeah that's complicated systems and nothing specific to ex3 either.

I follow the same 'soft limits' preference in 3.pathfinder, in anima beyond fantasy, tons of complicated systems powered by exceptions.

I'm also not approaching anything I make with the intent to publish or have Everyone AT Every Table use it, admittedly

Generally when I make a homebrew something, it's for personal use. I'll share it 'cause i like sharing things, but I'm more concerned with 'is my group okay with it' than anything else when it comes to the final stamp of approval

[bleak hazel]

that works, but it also requires a lot more effort to do compared to "do not, in any of these published books, mix things marked Fire with things marked Flammable"

shapeshifting is also way easier to dole out here - sids can turn into raitons and only raitons, which breaks nothing because that's a discrete statblock that loses access to most of their other kit and doesn't benefit from any Lunar Nonsense

target number reduction not so

[fierce star]

Yeah, it was just the first example that came to mind

[bleak hazel]

it being a Sid thing and Sids generally having their thematics stomped on nearly as much as Lunars is a secondary concern, especially since 3e sids no longer have a giant gaping hole in their powerset marked "does not work on half the exalt types"

[fierce star]

and I'm willing to put in that effort if I really like the idea. Again, by no means do I think it should be common or easily done or widely applicable; it's just not something I think has to be shut down by default. And, again (that word will lose all meaning one day) this is my personal way of doing things. Saying flat out 'no you can't do it' isn't my style! But there's nothing wrong with prefering hard limits to make shit easier

[bleak hazel]

that's only really a problem with something like FSSA, which is just "Solars are better fatebenders than Sidereals, but only if they are really good thieves"

[bleak hazel]

sure, but if you're writing and publishing these books, you want to impose the hard limits when you're writing How To Homebrew sections and adhere to them yourselves, because otherwise tables that are not ready to put in lots of homebrewing effort and aren't good at it will press the unmarked button and blow everything up

I am fine with smudging things at the edges in one particular group, but it's not great policy when you're writing supplements and attempting to clearly define things in such a way that Eclipses don't steal everyone else's powerset again - there you want clear lines, like "this is exclusive Lunar territory, this is exclusive Abyssal territory, artifacts and custom charms should not provide X, Y or Z"

[dense verge]

literal theft of design space

[bleak hazel]

(this is partly me being a little annoyed with the Exigent homebrew section, which spent so long caveating everything with "but you can do it if you want and it's on theme!" that they basically ended up with no rules whatsoever besides telling you to look at existing charms)

[dense verge]

oh that reminds me apparently we're getting more exigent types with the next essence release

essence being more lightweight makes it easier to write more up i think

[bleak hazel]

yeah, there are the Highlander admirals who hunt each other down for XP and the border enthusiasts

I was not really struck by either of their deals but Exigents aren't really my thing

[dense verge]

also a sentient exaltation which is a fox companion

[prisma sun]

I will be honest, I don't think Essence is as light weight

[dense verge]

de-boned

less-bone

[prisma sun]

It is complex in a different way

[bleak hazel]

I think that's the god that provided said exaltation

sentenced to exigence for being too much of a gremlin

[fierce star]

I'm just imagining hte fox from oglaf now

(if you look that up be warned the comic is NSFW if you're unaware)

[wise ocean]

oh do our alch-accessing people actually have beamklaive stats on them

[upper stratus]

yea beamklave stuff is in there

they set it up as a 'template' type deal that can be applied to all sorts of different weapons that project lightsabers glowing essence blades rather than like. a normal metal edge

[wise ocean]

I'll just throw it down as M Artifact Melee as a psuedo-reaper daiklaive for now while I work on the rest of the character

[wise ocean]

excellent, thank you

[prisma sun]

Being a straight upgrade over other artifacts definitely feels ick to me

[upper stratus]

sorta agree? you are commiting a 3 whole extra motes to your artifact just to get to use it every scene

[limpid badge]

Xm Attunement + 3m(2i) instead of just the flat X, yeah but still, a bit eeeh feeling

Suppose that's just playin the game

[prisma sun]

A 3m 2i cost for a shit ton of free damage and the ability to kill a martial artist without hitting them feels pretty strong

[wise ocean]

... also, is there any real difference to an artifact running off of personal or peripheral pools

[upper stratus]

yea, it shrinks said pool

[bleak hazel]

always attune to peripheral unless you have some kind of specific strat going that requires Big Anima

[prisma sun]

I will also say it's not even a commitment

it's just a one point charge

if you aren't doing violence turn 1 it's basically free

[limpid badge]

fair! it is also like, megadraft and in feedbacking stage

so it'll probably? be less that as we go?

one must hope

[wise ocean]

could have it just eating motes for as long as you have it on, since it's essence-powered

[bleak hazel]

it's duration One Scene, so it is a 3-mote commitment for the duration of the scene

[upper stratus]

what do you mean by one point charge?

[prisma sun]

one time

I meant

[upper stratus]

they're commited. you don't just regenerate them from the 5m/round regen

[prisma sun]

Huh

[fierce star]

It's also like, the complete opposite of subtle. I mean, most artifact weapons already aren't, but the autochthonian weapons ar ea degree above that

with the whirring and the glowing and the gnashing

[wise ocean]

... man, I can't get over the IB name for their lightsabers given I have exalted in another tab as I crossport vibes

solar trans. yeah I assume some are

(short for "solar transport" since that's how they work in that universe)

[fierce star]

well that got heard in the sniper TF2 voice for some reason

[wise ocean]

it was either sniper or scout

for abyssal apocalyptic abilities, can you tag that onto a MA style

[fierce star]

i believe MA in general

oh wait no, sorry

you pick brawl and you get MA too

oh wait that's favored

I'm literate

yeah you just pick MA in general

[wise ocean]

neat, thanks

[bleak hazel]

Supernal/Apocalyptic applies to all your normal martial arts styles if you pick MA, but not Sidereal Martial Arts

in order to learn those you need to get to E3 and find a Sid teacher after finishing at least one normal style

[wise ocean]

I'm not sure if Graves is capable of learning SMA

he thinks that you're not actually real until you're strong enough for him to kill you

at which point he's dutybound to kill you in a duel

[bleak hazel]

none of them work with swords right now anyway

[upper stratus]

anything with a duration longer than instant is committed for the duration. essence core ignition is an evocation with a duration of scene

[bleak hazel]

Amethyst Edge of Severance soon, though

Sidereal Sword Law

[prisma sun]

Ash hold on

[bleak hazel]

Sids can use whatever the hell they want with SMAs because Enlightenment charms let them join into SMA from their regular combat trees, but everyone else is mostly punching

[prisma sun]

NOOOOOOO

THE VIDEO HAS BEEN TAKEN DOWN

hold on

fuck

it's lost media

there's a scene from Yu Gi Oh of the series main antagoinst flying around a city shooting laser beams saying

"DUEL ME!"

[wise ocean]

yeah that's him

this is also him

lore skill for remembering back when he was a solar invincible sword prince (they killed his ass)

[bleak hazel]

the fun thing about martial arts is that you can just keep learning more styles

the sad thing about martial arts is that then you end up with a bunch of form charms that you cannot use together until you become a Sidereal stylist

[wise ocean]

you do have to imagine the look on the gold faction's face when a solar finally gets out of the jade prison and then their reincarnation becomes an abyssal

heads rolled in yu-shan

[bleak hazel]

the Jade Prison broke all at once, so it was more "ah fuck/hell yes, the solars are out" -> "some of them are really weird"

[prisma sun]

The Gold Faction now isn't like

just the "pro-solar" faction

[bleak hazel]

yeah, they have many disparate deals

but some of them were probably pretty happy about it

Lytek was because he wrote a very smug letter to Kejak

[wise ocean]

makes sense

(Apologies for newbie questions / lore inaccuracies, this is my first time making a non-DB)

[bleak hazel]

since you can mix styles fluidly while rolling attacks with either of the two, I think this is tanamount to having specialties in Duels and Non-Duels on the same ability

[wise ocean]

ah, I thought you had to choose forms at the start of a scene

[bleak hazel]

nah, forms are either a Simple action to initiate or reflexive when you hit their activation condition

some builds get several and rotate between them with the reflexive shifts, since you can still use all your MA charms outside of the Form

[wise ocean]

admittedly I don't actually intend to swap between the two and they don't use the same weapons, so hm

I just wanted to have "specialty: I'm fine and well-adjusted and doing what I wanted to do" and "specialty: they turned down my perfectly reasonable offer to let me kill them, time to raise my limit")

[velvet raft]

Yes this is how specialties are supposed to work :D

[bleak hazel]

the classic thing to do is to take a spec in your preferred weapon, which will apply most of the time but not if disarmed and using the unarmed version of your styles

the game is basically designed around Specialty: My Cool Sword, so that's fine

[velvet raft]

You know what would be fun

If specialties were not ability specific

[bleak hazel]

...oh yeah, my Sid is going to have to buy a sword spec for Martial Arts at some point

huh

[fierce star]

hmm. I guess my alchemical should probably have more applicable specialties at chargen than the set i've currently selected

(Surgery for medicine, Labor for resistance, One on One for presence, and Work Songs for performance). Should probably take a Chakram specialty for TWG style and probably like something for dodge?

[bleak hazel]

personally I am boring and tend to pick categories of dice roll/static value

so my Sid has one in Occult: Prophecy and one in Socialize: Guile

[fierce star]

I only use that as placeholder stuff, I try to go more flavorful if I can

[bleak hazel]

at least for combat the game very much expects you to do combat ability: primary weapon and dodge: primary armour type

for everything else you can probably get more varied

I should, definitely, but I find having a very clear "this applies to XYZ" vision in mind before attempting to word it a little more prettily helps in play

[fierce star]

yeah, that's legit

[bleak hazel]

my Sid has the WSAV specialty "against other exalts" because he's Lytek's current favourite Sid to the tune of 4-dot backing, so far 100% of the enemies have been fae

[fierce star]

pft

[wise ocean]

a character concept in two images

[bleak hazel]

double artifact weapon, double style with no compatible weapons is a choice

there's probably a reflexive weapon swap in the Abyssal charmset somewhere, at least

worst case scenario it's a misc action to hotswap

[wise ocean]

yeah you just pull them out of your shadow

[bleak hazel]

ah, of course

that does require doing something to get rid of the old one but throwing down your scythe to summon the big sword is at least very stylish

[wise ocean]

hotswap

[bleak hazel]

fair enough, I forgot Call The Blade existed

meanwhile my Sids are designing increasingly ornate ways to never have to put their one sword down

[wise ocean]

Telescope the sword down and stick it in a pocket

If Corvo Attano did it so can you

[bleak hazel]

the difficult part is that Sids are huge fans of using three or so different styles at once and form weapons actually become a relevant constraint at that point

despite the incredibly-named charm that is Holistic Arsenal Methodology

at Essence 5 you can straight up multithread three martial arts forms at once and gain total omnicompatibility, but if you want to build your three styles up to that point you occasionally need to improvise something

[velvet raft]

Have to get to Essence 5 for that tho

[coral wraith]

just use three Unarmed styles

throne shadow sweep

[bleak hazel]

I would, if one of my styles wasn't Sidereal Melee

which has a slight restriction in that matter

[velvet raft]

Bulb of the perfected lotus? Nahhhhhhhh. Sword.

[wise ocean]

are you allowed to use this with a MA or does it count as enhancing an attack

[fierce star]

That'll count as enhancing an attack

basically if it has decisive-only, withering-only, or unified is a good way to eyeball 'does this work with MAs or not'

[wise ocean]

I'm still taking all the parry/counter-attack charms because they're incredibly fun, but this is an easy skip, then

[bleak hazel]

every ability that creates an attack creates an [ability] attack, so those counter-attacks will be Melee and thus not compatible with any Martial Arts charm

and if you're using melee charms to enhance a parry, like Elegant Flowing Deflection, that parry must be calculated with melee, etc. etc.

so no Joy-in-Adversity Stance + Fluttering Moth Defence, for example

[velvet raft]

In general, if you can combine a charm with charms or actions of another ability, it will say so

[wise ocean]

noted, good to have melee at 5 then

[bleak hazel]

have decided that in lieu of wrestling with the compatibility rules for five essence levels I will simply Artifact 5 my way around the problem

[velvet raft]

Sounds about right

[bleak hazel]

I don't need much, just a Shield that works with Crane Style

[velvet raft]

"The Crane's Wing"

Something like that

[fierce star]

Misc: have you considered mutations

[bleak hazel]

I'm getting a bit generic with it and making a set of the old Perfected Kata Bracers that simply do this

in lieu of all the old bullshit they used to do

[velvet raft]

Give them featherrrrrrrs

[coral wraith]

[bleak hazel]

yeah, that does actually do it, but I am going to make a big artifact because they're cool

[fierce star]

That is 100% legitimate and I approve of big artifacts

[coral wraith]

You've got room to go ham then

[wise ocean]

okay, never mind, I'm actually chill with giving up all the counterattack stuff now

[bleak hazel]

hello Seven Shadows Evasion

for once your solar name is cooler

[prisma sun]

Crane Style as a mutant

[wise ocean]

unfortunately I am rapidly running out of room to fit charms I think are cool. this is somewhat problematic because abyssals get a lot of cool charms

[coral wraith]

duck fate

[prisma sun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgHkthRmQjQ

[bleak hazel]

Perfected Lotus Bracers - Artifact •••••

Perfected Lotus Bracers are prayer strips crafted of starmetal and curled into bracers. The strips’ sutras are engravings of any of the magical materials, except in starmetal bracers—they use orichalcum. Lotus Bracers are much prized among the ranks of the Sidereal Exalted, and the martial arts masters of the Fivefold Fellowship have been known to gift their finest students sets tailored to the unique Essence of their favoured styles.

Attunement: 5m
Type: Medium (+3 ACC, +10 DMG, +1 DEF, OVW 4)
Tags: Bashing, Martial Arts, Shield, Worn
Hearthstone Slot(s): 2 (one each)
Era: Time of Tumult

Evocations of the Perfected Lotus Bracers:

When an Exalt first attunes to a set of Perfected Lotus Bracers, they may select a Martial Arts style they know at least one charm from. While attuned, the Bracers count as Form weapons for that martial arts style and are considered Unarmed where relevant for the specific effects of that style's charms, like Mournful Crane's Cry (Exalted, p.445).

wondering a) what I should do for Evocations here and b) if I can add some more juice in the vein of "pick a tag from this list" instead of Shield

[prisma sun]

Oh heyy

the Fog Hill guys are making an Alchemical Exalted movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSR7eR67o5o

[bleak hazel]

Shield is actually interesting as a default here because it means the damage is only slightly above normal Unarmed strikes, you just trade 1 accuracy for 1 damage and the Overwhelming

[velvet raft]

@tulip folio You should see this

[fierce star]

You could juice it with 'select one of this list', yeah. Shield, disarming, flexible, reaching maybe?

[prisma sun]

Did I give King Hu wings in his Beastman form?

I cannae remember...

https://i.imgur.com/47FAs8E.png

Nope

[wise ocean]

now to cut... some number... of charms

oh, wait

I bet I can't use any of these parry charms with MAs either

[wise ocean]

yep

then again, I do have melee 5 anyway, so what am I losing here

(points. it's points. to spend on things that aren't melee)

[bleak hazel]

I think that plus grappling, yeah, so you can grab people with Bear Style etc.

[fierce star]

I legitimately didn't even notice they didn't have grappling at first

lol

[wise ocean]

I'm just going to drop White Reaper, I think, it's a little too much to pile on

I have melee 5 anyway, I can just roll with that

[limpid badge]

abyssal melee kind of covers the army killing tbh

GLORIOUS CARNAGE TYPHOON

[velvet raft]

Abyssal and Solar Melee covereth a multitude of sins

[wise ocean]

more manageable number of charms (I still need to cut 4)

maybe I don't need a perfect parry and a perfect dodge. this may be possible

[bleak hazel]

actually on a 5-dot's power budget I can probably just say "pick a style, pick a tag"

[upper stratus]

do you have any charmst hat are not related to killing

[wise ocean]

yes!

[bleak hazel]

I don't think the game blows too far open if I allow someone to get a Balanced weapon with Toad Style

[wise ocean]

he has performance 5

dueling is an art and a ritual and a performance (so I got two performance charms)

[velvet raft]

That’s actually Ligier’s fatal weakness

Toad Sword

[wise ocean]

Does this mean +1 to accuracy/defense/damage?

[tulip folio]

Hmm...how would you price a non-weapon/non-armour artifact that gives the effects of a mutation? Basicly: Pondering the classic 'witch's broom' idea and 'object that gives Flight, like the wings mutation' is likely the easy way.

[bleak hazel]

weapons and armour can't be Exceptional

[tulip folio]

Well, they can but they don't get stat bonuses for it.

They get stuff like 'added silent'

[bleak hazel]

Wings of the Raptor, arms of the chosen

[bleak hazel]

four dot wings device, although you basically need to be resonant with moonsilver to get a decent version so functionally you're looking at Solars and Moonsilver Alchemicals only, Lunars don't need it

[tulip folio]

...actually, looks like all alchs can make it work.

As it's Dissonant that gets the reduced version

Alchs are Neutral to all materials, except the one they're made out of.

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah, I was thinking Sids, who are dissonant to everything other than Starmetal

they are quite bad at evocations and moderately bad at sorcery/necromancy (celestial, but only Ivory) to make up for being absolutely insanely good at MA

[tulip folio]

...also god that thing is just pure 'This thing was designed for solars'.

[bleak hazel]

most of the artifacts in the book still use "the Solar" as the term for "whoever has this equipped" so yeah, about standard

[tulip folio]

More the 'We're going to list of a billion solar charms that make this cheaper' bit. XD

[upper stratus]

honestly this feels more like a consolation prize for the fact that those air movement based charms are largely rendered worthless due tot he fact that you have wings now

[tulip folio]

Still, it gives a decent basis for 'how you'd set up a witch's broom artifact'

(Pondering for that Sid Witch idea)

...though this being a Sid witch kinda tempted to make it Staff + Broom. XD

[bleak hazel]

Now that I think about it I'll probably make something specifically for Crane Style because otherwise I kind of delete the Form Weapon system in the process

five-dots are rare but not that rare

[coral wraith]

do Solars have an equivalent to Crypt Bolt Attack or Unweaving Method?

I couldn't find one

[fierce star]

sort of but not really in fiery solar chakram

[coral wraith]

oh yeah definitely not

more looking for a "basic occult attack" type beat

[fierce star]

yeah, solars don't really get that in ex3

[tulip folio]

...hmm...hmm. Pondering a silly concept for a martial art but also not sure if it's too silly.

A martial art that only works if you're fighting With A Familiar. As it's all about two beings moving as one.

[merry arch]

I see XII will be in good company, she's also dumb as rocks

[tulip folio]

Mirror Forest Waltz
Cost: 2m; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Dual, Terrestrial 
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The forest of mirrors reflects all, a dance of a million copies of one's self.

This supplements an attack, allowing it to originate from any of the martial artist’s Puppet familiars in Medium Range, though it is still made by the martial artist. 

Terrestrial: This may only originate attacks from familiars in short range.

[tulip folio]

...pondering how big a familiar you could give with a charm. We've got charms that let you get some comically big familiars and you don't even need a charm to get some of the biggest ones.

Which makes 'Hey, this charm gives you a specific cool familiar' tricky

[prisma sun]

I can get a Quetzalqualtus with 3 dots

[coral wraith]

Or a Tyrant Lizard

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's my thoughts.

I should likely avoid it being Tyrant Lizard powerful but I guess I'll likely put it about on par with a Solid Big Familiar you could buy with dots.

Like maybe 'Unicorn' big, not 'Tyrant Lizard' big

Sorta being inspired by another Anima martial art, Gemini. Where you basicly fought with Puppets under your control.

With the martial art caring about 'if you have puppet familiar/where it is'.

Like I'm pondering a pretty classic 'Hey, just swap positions with a puppet of yours' charm.

The exalted theming is going to be Szoreny.

Rather than going 'Hey, I'm copying your moves' mirror stuff, it's instead 'there are a forest of mes', as you work with puppets.

[prisma sun]

I feel like at that point you just make it Not A Familiar and make it more like, a trivial character

[tulip folio]

I mean, a trivial character is someone who's not really Part Of The Fight.

I want it to be able to actually contribute

I'm not sure what being a Trivial Character would do with it.

[prisma sun]

If you're meant to spam these out I think it'd be better if they were puppets who were trivial characters who you do effects with rather than spawning in guys with stats that you just send at people

For a martial art at least

[tulip folio]

...why? The game handles Non-Puppet Familiars just fine.

Hell, they are even lower investment

As they're just dots, not charms

[coral wraith]

Question: what Martial Arts are compatible with any ranged weapon?

[prisma sun]

Uhhh

Nightingale

Righteous Devil

[tulip folio]

Swaying Grass gets Knives.

[prisma sun]

The secret not martial art has needles

White something

[tulip folio]

Needles are not ranged!

[coral wraith]

I ask because of this clause in Unweaving Method -
She can enhance this attack with Archery Charms, Thrown Charms, or Martial Arts Charms that are compatible with any ranged weapons, but can’t combine Charms from multiple such Abilities unless they’re explicitly compatible with other Abilities.

[tulip folio]

They've surprisingly not got thrown

[prisma sun]

They can be if you're a Lunar

[tulip folio]

If you're a lunar you don't have unweaving method

[prisma sun]

What's unweaving method

[coral wraith]

Sidereal Occult Charm

[tulip folio]

Okay so I spent a while looking at this a big ago.

[coral wraith]

It's their equivalent of Crypt Bolt Attack or Elemental Bolt

Unweaving Method
Cost: 3m; Mins: Occult 3, Essence 1
Type: Simple

[prisma sun]

Oh charcoal spider style also

You can technically use this with March of the spiders to hit everyone within extreme range with it

[coral wraith]

good

[tulip folio]

Air Dragon: Kinda okay but really wants Chakrams
Rightous Devil: Nope. Really cares about the specifics of firewands. Has a *couple* of charms but mostly a no.
Silver-Voiced Nightingale: Mostly doing its own thing. Kinda neutral to the idea of unweaving.
Ebon Dragon: Godly. It's soak reducer turns into bonus damage if the target has no soak and unweaving ignores armour.
Swaying Grass: Pretty solid! More on the defensive end but lets you do Suprise Attack Unweavings in fun ways.

From my investigation a while ago

[next delta]

There is a MA charm in the Alch book that involves throwing special types of Chakrams

[prisma sun]

Yeah I think you're best bet is combing with Charcoal

My beloved

[next delta]

Oh, any as in all?

[prisma sun]

I believe all the supplemental stuff in charcoal should combo with this

[coral wraith]

hmmm

so start Ebon Dragon, go into CMoS

[tulip folio]

Crystal Chameleon is also solid (In alchemicals)

As it's a Stealth-based martial art that gets short spears (Which are thrown)

So you can Ebon Dragon + Crystal Chamelon at the same time with Unweaving

Crystal also lets you keep your anima under control

[prisma sun]

To go back to this, I think the idea of a martial art focused on summoning should be more about the martial artist doing things rather than the familiar, since at that point that's more an artifact or a charm set

[tulip folio]

Sudden Radiance Onslaught
Cost: 4m, 1a; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Dual
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: One Wire Among Many
The stylist strikes quickly and brutally in an overawing display, her anima strobing through the spectrum as she attacks.

The stylist adds two dice to an attack’s post-soak withering damage or decisive damage. This increases to (higher of Essence or 3) dice on unexpected attacks, or if the stylist’s anima was at bonfire when she used this Charm. If the attack hits, the enemy’s onslaught penalty doesn’t refresh at the end of his next turn, instead doing so at the end of that round.

Mastery: This Charm’s damage bonus is increased by one die.

[tulip folio]

...it's not about summoning.

You fight with the puppet but you always have the puppet

It's about how you interact with the puppet

Combo attacks and guarding each other and such

[prisma sun]

Then yeah that feels more like an artifact evocation tree than a martial art

[coral wraith]

Not really?

Like, if you're trying to reproduce a fighting game puppet character

eg. Zato

[tulip folio]

Yeah, it's basicly a Fighting Game Puppet Character Style

[coral wraith]

That's well within Exalted's purview and that shit aint an artifact

[prisma sun]

I think it's within Exalted's purview but it's also like
Martial arts feel like they should be more about the new and interesting ways you are punching people. Stuff with another thing with stats that shows up and fights for you is almost always an artifact or Sorcery or a charm or etc.

[tulip folio]

...I mean...we've got Throne Shadow as another Minion-User Style.

[coral wraith]

Was literally about to say, yeah

[tulip folio]

The intent was that where Throne Shadow is very 'You, do everything for me while I Vizier over here', this would be more 'the two working in harmony'.

[next delta]

I think if you wanted to emulate a fighting game puppet character you'd make the puppet not a full character? It depends on what you are going for but "it has its own initiative track and when crashed it doesn't do stuff for a bit" (or maybe has a bit of health) but otherwise supplements your attacks/defences?

[tulip folio]

One of my plans one of the capstone charms is:

-You and puppet both attack the same guy together.
-The target has the unpleasant choice of treating *both* attacks as Surprise Attacks or one as a normal attack and one as an ambush.
-Reset 1/scene

[next delta]

~~alternatively, we have a puppet based MA, it's Single point flashing into the void ~~

[tulip folio]

(Well, okay. The Capstone Capstone will be 'Legendary Size Puppet'. XD)

[next delta]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a martial art focused on familiars in general though

[prisma sun]

Yeah though that'd have balancing issues

[tulip folio]

Honestly part of the intent with narrowing down to 'puppet' over 'all familiars' was to sorta keep it at a relatively even level when familiars can be 'A tyrant lizard'

[prisma sun]

Can't let a tyrant lizard a

Yea

[tulip folio]

Making it work with a specific familiar

And I can hook more into its specifics

Like being able to make the puppet Look Like You. Giving it a defensive 'Before the attack, make a Manipualtion + Performance vs the attacker's guile. If you succeed, you can redirect the attack to a puppet in close range' charm.

Without having to worry about 'Hey, this guy has a Legendary Size familiar. That can take basicly infinite offence that isn't designed specificially to kill it, so the attacks are more negated than redirected'

The intended vibe is like '1/3 Fighting Game Puppet Character, 1/3 Anima Gemini, 1/3 Alice Margatroid'

The form weapons are going to be 'stringed/chained' weapons. Whips, kusari-gama, chains, garottes.

To play into the 'puppeteer' theming

[bleak hazel]

I think the martial art focused on familiars is called a Survival tree, the combo attack is definitely in Solar and Abyssal survive in different ways

[bleak hazel]

Blazing Solar Bolt

[coral wraith]

no

Melee 5 Essence 3 is not a basic Occult attack!

[tulip folio]

I mean, why is Throne Shadow not a Socialize Tree then? Like, this wouldn't even be the First Minion-Based Style

[prisma sun]

I wouldn't really call Throne Shadow a minion style even

[next delta]

Is Throne Shadow in 3E now?

[prisma sun]

It's as much just for party buffing

[tulip folio]

Yeah, in the Sid Book

[bleak hazel]

Yeah it's in the Sid book, it's a bit odd and hard to combo with other MAs but it's quite good

[wise ocean]

How do people recommend writing evocation trees, and how many evocations should a 4* have anyway?

[prisma sun]

It's easy to combo with other MAs if those MAs are being done by a solar

[prisma sun]

If you're making your own for your own purposes, like 3-5 is fine

You probably aren't going to get all of them

If you do design the whole tree

[bleak hazel]

If you want a lot of T-rex moves they're in the survival tree, if you want a shadow clone that you make attacks through it's in Obsidian Shards, if you want more initiative tracks it's CMOS. I'm just not entirely sure there's room for a giant yozi martial art here.

[tulip folio]

Honestly, the existing ones are not really great examples as they have both a lot of charms and a lot of really badly designed charms.

(Evocations, I mean)

[wise ocean]

Yeah, that was my difficulty.

I was trying to figure it out based off examples and went "this is bad"

[prisma sun]

Then yeah just like do a few cool moves for your thing

[tulip folio]

I mean, it's expressly not working with T-Rexes, just the 'Granted by the style' puppet minions

(Becuase T-Rexes introduce balance issues)

[bleak hazel]

I go with 5-6 evocations max, generally 1-2 1-2 E2, 1 E3 and then 1 E4 for really big artifacts like 5-dots

In practice I usually end up with about two on my real character sheet anyway

[tulip folio]

Most of my artifacts so far have been like 5 charms, Mostly in E1 and E2

And designed sorta plug an area theme-wise.

[prisma sun]

I think an artifact can pass with like 1 charm that does something cool on attunement and a cool passover

Passive

Happy passover though to those who celebrate

[tulip folio]

Ghost-Lit Duty
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: Raise the Skeletal Horde
Under the ghostflame light of Innocent Oblivion, the dead rise again to defend what they did in life.

When you Raise the Skeletal Horde, instead of Zombies, you can instead raise Ghouls. Ghouls are treated as Militia, except they are Mindless and Undead. When you raise multiple Size worth of zombies, you can divide the raised undead among any type of undead you can create.

Like Innocent Oblivion's 'thing' is that it lets RiRi have Better Zombies.

She's not likely to get a tonne of evocations for it but what it does is something 'Being an Alchemical' wouldn't do.

[bleak hazel]

Vigil's sword is a two-handed medium weapon because one didn't exist and then the one auto-unlocking evocation is "spend 4 motes to stab ghost, this works regardless of sword's location as long as it's still attuned "

because I like the idea of parrying a ghost's sword with the ghost of your sword

(also sids don't have a straightforward spirit-cutter, so it's a nice emergency button)

[tulip folio]

(I will admit, with the game having so many ways to Get Minions in Charms, Artifacts, Spells and Merits, a Minion-Focused Martial Art being out of place still has me a bit confused.)

[prisma sun]

To me it just sorta feels like that's not really what the MA system works for in flavor and design space.

[bleak hazel]

Also you already have so many ways to do as much beastmaster stuff as you'll ever need, I'm not sure there's really the open design space for something that isn't heavily overlapping with the existing martial arts clone moves, Survive or War

[tulip folio]

...so how would you do 'Combat Puppeteer' in exalted currently?

[prisma sun]

I would make them summonable terrain features or trivial characters that you can use to trigger effects

Like shadow clones or terracotta soldiers or shit like that

[tulip folio]

Not 'how you'd make the charms'

I mean, more...if there's so many ways to already do it...how would you with the current exalted stuff?

[prisma sun]

Well I forget the exact combo of stuff

But there's a way to give your sword 2 more initiative tracks

[bleak hazel]

If I wanted to do a lot of it I'd just get a familiar and learn survival charms, if I wanted to do a little bit of it I'd learn Obsidian Shards for Draw Forth One Shard or take the Lunar clone tree to taste

[tulip folio]

I'll work on something else

Just...with how broad and weird martial arts get, I don't get how this is the one that goes over the line and not Throne Shadow, Nightingale or Thousand Blades.

(Staying out of SMA as while they're even weirder, this isn't a SMA so it's not quite the same comparison)

I'll admit I'm also not really 100% set on 'If you want to do combat puppet stuff, get an animal and learn the skill about animal handling'.

But...well, if there's this much objection I should likely find something else to do

[coral wraith]

I think you have plenty of room to make it cool and diverse, Iki

Go with your gut

[tulip folio]

I do find it funny that this was me attempting to translate an actual martial art from another game.

Gemini is a martial art in anima. One of the Impossible Weapon ones.

Alongside 'Razor Wire' and 'Hey, exalted, you're ripping off what I rightfully ripped off first from Fate with this Thousand Blades' XD

[limpid badge]

hi i made another Bloody Hand

[tulip folio]

*bloody nose

😛

[tulip folio]

The big earings are fun.

[limpid badge]

dollmakers are useful for figuring out vibes sometimes

abyssals should bleed randomly in portraits or otherwise make spirit photos happen okay

hehehehe

[tulip folio]

Can't fault that

[limpid badge]

she's making so many potential friends (people who are going to try and get her to do more external cultivation)

[bleak hazel]

I'm not entirely certain what the vision is here, then, because "get a familiar/Bronze Legionnaire and reflavour it" seems to.ke to cover most things that aren't "I have a clone, it doesn't have stats but I can make attacks through it"

[wise ocean]

evocation 1:
passive
if someone acts contrary to a major or defining intimacy of yours while you're holding the blade, get an extra damage dice when you hit them next

evocation 2:
2m 1wp
when you parry a guy, steal one of his dice to hit you next time he swings

evocation 3:
some cost
when you successfully defend against an attack, pay the cost to reflexively try a disarm gambit

evocation 4:
some cost
when you hit a guy, pay a cost to sippy box some of his motes out of him equal to his wound penalty

evocation 5:
when an enemy drops an undodgeable attack on you and you block it or an undodgeable attack on you and you block it, reflexively counter-attack with a MA with which this weapon is compatible

is this anything

[bleak hazel]

I would not add a capbreaking accuracy booster and defence increase to an artifact, otherwise this all seems like reasonable evocation stuff

[wise ocean]

hm

when you parry a guy, pay to make him have to reroll some successes when he next swings at you?

the general vibe I'm angling for is asshole defensive fighting style

okay bro hit me. just hit me. that's all you have to do (steals all of your motes and then beats you to death)

[bleak hazel]

Also capbreaking defence booster

[wise ocean]

[bleak hazel]

although more reasonable because at that point they can just throw a cheap attack at you to get rid of the debuff

so probably doable if expensive

[wise ocean]

yeah, I was thinking that it also makes the violet bier vs. violet bier matchup funny because metal storm

[bleak hazel]

anything that fucks with hitting or not getting hit that doesn't obey Charm dice limits is pretty dangerous territory

see: Hail-Shattering Practice, probably the best defensive charm in the game

I think in Abyssals it's Fluttering Moth Defence

[wise ocean]

ayup, it is

(I didn't take it because I'm an idiot)

(I ran out of room for charms)

when you parry a guy, he just takes withering damage

this feels worse but might actually be better?

[bleak hazel]

Much more doable and exists in a few different forms already

of variable cost

[wise ocean]

excellent.

[tulip folio]

I wonder how you'd make heavy weapons more competitive with light and medium weapons while keeping their identity...hmmm...

[velvet raft]

Does anyone have thoughts on scaling down stat blocks to a lower essence? I'm looking at the Storm Serpent from Hundred Devils Night Parade as a basis for an Ephemeral Induction Technique spirit, but it's Essence 4 and I need the created spirit to be Essence 1.

[bleak hazel]

you're a Twilight, right? I believe you can just bind lesser elementals, although obviously that doesn't get you your own custom one

annoyingly the core book has literally zero Essence 1 elementals, and there's none in HDNP that are remotely combat-capable

the Storm Serpent has nothing below Essence 2 in terms of abilities, so I think the closest you can get for spirits is the Field Guardian, E1 guardian spirit with a big attack, a soak charm and a decisive damage boost

[velvet raft]

Hence why I'm not referring to one of those -_-

But Field Guardian is a good shout

[bleak hazel]

the storm serpent doesn't actually hit hard without spending motes, so condensing most of its giant AOE nonsense and unblockable lightning into a decent basic attack like said big scythe probably works all right

[velvet raft]

I suppose Good Earth Resilience could be converted to something like "in a storm" rather than on home turf

[tulip folio]

Hmm...what would you call the 'gold standard' of 2/3 dot familiars? The 'i want something that's good at its job but not so powerful it breaks things'?

[bleak hazel]

Simhata

it's a really good horse and has decent crowd control attacks

but a lot of the upsides are based around using it as an elite mount, so if you just want to ask "how much raw combat power can you get from two merit dots" I'm not sure

given two merit dots isn't even enough to warrant any combat power when spent on artifacts I would say Not Much, but all the merits that give you extra statblocks fighting alongside yours are extremely cheap for what you get

I love my deeb, he comes with two other deebs both riding Tyrant Lizards

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's my pondering. Tyrant Lizards feel like Kinda An Outlier.

[bleak hazel]

yeah, they are

strangely, less so for Lunars - they're incredibly lethal warforms but you need to be quite high essence before you can stay in Legendary Size for an entire fight without going quite hard and risking mote exhaustion

while you can definitely crunch a few mid-essence deebs with an Essence 2 tyrant lunar, they're not orders of magnitude better than hippos etc, just somewhat better

[tulip folio]

Makes sense.

[bleak hazel]

unfortunately normal tyrant lizards do not have to pay motes every round to stay tyrant-lizard shaped so go wild

[tulip folio]

Unicorns seem very...damn good in a fight but not Such An Outlier as to warp the game around it like Tyrant Lizards do.

[bleak hazel]

they're rock solid, yeah

nothing too extra though - they don't have overwhelming and they can't grapple, so they bounce on medium-high soak

min damage 1

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's sorta my pondering. Working out sorta 'baselines' for 'This is notably good but not so notably good it cracks things'. XD

[bleak hazel]

there are lots of cool beasties in the various books that just don't have the dice pools necessary to threaten a reasonably fighty Exalt in any way, which is unfortunately life when easily accessible defence is naturally going to range from maybe 4 to 8 before you get into dedicated I Never Die setups

[tulip folio]

Suddenly, a Battlegroup of Unicorns. XD

[bleak hazel]

excellencies are really good, as it turns out

then you have my stupid E5 sidereal build who runs around with parry 14 and can boost to 16 by whipping his hair back and forth if I understand the rules correctly

(this is not a serious build, do not actually do this)

[tulip folio]

Hahahah

And I thought RiRi was doing well with her Parry 6 😛

[bleak hazel]

def 6 is fine, there are many dedicated combat exalts running around with def 6 base because they have light or heavy weapons

Parrysid has Prismatic Form, Ways of Exaltation, Indomitable Shieldbearer Expertise and artifact gear up, so he's committed something like 46 motes to Stuff and a bunch more charms to get disgusting mote efficiency

[tulip folio]

Makes sense.

While RiRi just has martial arts, dex and a staff. XD

[bleak hazel]

Redsids are actually unique in that at iconic they have Parry 8, which means life is good

[coral wraith]

meanwhile, dodge sid

[bleak hazel]

(dodge sid also very good, I should really stop skipping dodge)

[tulip folio]

I'll admit I generally lean parry over dodge due to 'medium weapons existing/you parry with the same skill you hit with'. XD

Something that dodge can't claim.

[bleak hazel]

yeah, it's very efficient

dodge shows up more for archers and thrown weapon users who can't parry, or for certain martial arts that can't use medium anyway

Sid Dodge just has the one spectacular standout of "actually I decided we're not having the fight today"

[coral wraith]

On Grinning Mask I gunned for Dodge largely because of Avoidance

Which is just freakishly good

[bleak hazel]

(Solaroid dodge has Seven Shadows Evasion, which is frequently worth it by itself, my god)

[tulip folio]

A couple of my sids have good evasion but mostly due to cheating.

Defense of Shining Joy is good

Sure, you don't get dodge charms out of it but if you just want an evasion score it's pretty fun

[coral wraith]

Sids have so many ways to hack their stats

it's great

[bleak hazel]

I craft with charisma

my steaks like my cocky grin so much they just become perfectly done

[tulip folio]

Alchs have some nice ones there, though I think the sid ones are generally stronger.

[bleak hazel]

Sids have always had "wait, my X is in Y ability?" as a thing

Alchs just want to do some fairly utilitarian stat swapping so they can get more things under the stats they have 8 goddamn dots in

[tulip folio]

Alchs can get heavy and unarmed weapons with strength and parry with stamina, which is pretty nice if you don't wanna go turbodex.

[bleak hazel]

I should really actually build this VBOS alchemical

I think it would be fun, they have all the right charms to patch the holes and it means I get to use Joy-In-Adversity Stance, which is a really neat defence boost

Alchs have the Give Me Mutations permanent charm, right?

I can go get some Unusual Hide and extra limbs

[tulip folio]

Yeah, you get...7-8 dots worth of charms iirc

And you can hotswap it like any other alch charm

[bleak hazel]

ah, Manifold Transhuman Implants, yeah

would need two for the ideal suite of "unusual hide 5 + other stuff" but one is pretty great by itself

[tulip folio]

You can also get non-hot swappable mutations if you want. XD

Nothing stops you just Being Built Weird.

[bleak hazel]

I was slightly inspired by this lad, who is cool

[tulip folio]

Manifold Transhuman feels really good if you want mutations that have a lot of downsides.

Like if you want Fins 5 or something

So you can go 'no, this is not a Water Mission, I will have legs instead of being a mermaid'

Tinkering with those puppets for the idea. My plan is to offer a Few Types of Puppet that have a trait or two to make them specialists for a role.

So you can have a Defensive Puppet who's job is to block hits, or a Charging Puppet who wants to do a Big Lance Hit or such

With you ending up with a few slots for puppets.

[bleak hazel]

you know, Alchs are also pretty good at my favourite thing, which is mote efficiency

they can't reach Sid levels of "fuck you, my attack excellencies are literally free because you gave me batman prep time" but with max T(A)U on your attack stat you do very decently

[tulip folio]

I also feel like they have a bit of an extra shiny that sids don't in that well...stats are wider than abilities. XD

So getting 'everything dex' heavily discounted covers a lot

[bleak hazel]

actually the same there because Sids are bullshit, hang on

[tulip folio]

Ah, yes, that one XD

[bleak hazel]

the other boosters are "all attack rolls that align with (Intimacy)" and "all rolls in your WSAV specialty" so you end up with this very strange combat routine

"so I pretend to be a robot, get really psyched up and then jump him at night, and we're good"

(you can also just pretend to be a Water Aspect, they get martial arts)

[tulip folio]

Also very good and likely more subtle

Hmm...basic Sword Puppet (Does general combat well), Lance Puppet (Does a single big charge well), Arrow Puppet (Ranged, poor defence), Unarmed Puppet (Gambits!) and Shield Puppet (Tankiest + Does Defend Other) seems like a pretty solid setup for 'default options for puppets'

[bleak hazel]

that's a lot of puppets

I would probably go with the traditional setup of "melee, ranged, weird" or "DPS, tank, support" but it depends how much of this MA's space will be "you get new puppet type X"

[tulip folio]

The intent is that by default you only get sword or ranged

And unlock lance, unarmed and shield

[bleak hazel]

sensible

wait, pretending to be a water aspect gets you Aura for Water Dragon

we have unlocked Wet Sid

[coral wraith]

Y'know I think that charm is too good

[bleak hazel]

what, WOE?

yeah, it's amazing to maybe too good depending on how you lever it

it's basically "here, have a Solar level combat suite", which a lot of the SMAs do in different ways

WOE does it with cheap raw power, CMOS does it by allowing you to stand in midair bludgeoning people, etc.

it's a good thing Sovereigns can't learn it, they'd get to Anima 4

[tulip folio]

The capstone charm is going to unlock, temporarily, another sort but it's not really a Normal Sort. The Goliath Puppet is 'Hey, congrats. You got a long way up this tree. Now you finally get to have one of your puppets briefly become a Legendary Size Puppet'.

As opposed to 'sure, chargen seems like a fair time for tyrant lizards'

[bleak hazel]

I wonder if the Puppet Exigent has stuff that would work for this

I never read their stuff

[tulip folio]

I'll admit, i've not looked at it either

the only exigent I'm super familiar with is Architects.

[velvet raft]

Alright, using Field Guardian as a base (thanks Misc), how does this look? Probably overtuned, but, starting point

Good Earth Resilience -> Whirling Storm Resilience:

Same cost. When it’s raining, the spirit gets 5+(stormcaller intensity) soak. If not stormcaller-based, intensify corresponds to the level of weather penalty.

Harvest Moon Sickle -> Rolling Thunder Fang:

Same charm, but the wound penalty is added to the damage roll if the weather corresponds to Intensity 1+

Towering Wheat Blessing -> Eyewall’s Border:

Same cost. Spirit and its allies ignore movement penalties/difficult terrain for bad weather, including from Stormcaller. Grounded enemies treat terrain in Intensity 1+ weather as difficult terrain.

[bleak hazel]

don't you get intensity 1 for drawing the sword?

[velvet raft]

I think it starts at 0

[tulip folio]

A Goliath Doll is a titanic doll that requires large amounts of essence to fully act.

Passive: A Goliath doll can act out of combat without investment of motes but is unable to take actions in combat unless the martial artist pays 10 motes and 1 willpower to bring it to full life for a scene. Without this, it will not notice hostile foes and will just passively watch ongoing conflicts.

Vague pondering. So you can 100% have it like 'carry shit' and 'lift heavy objects' without help but if you want it Hitting Things With A Titanic Blade, you need to pay to bring it to Combat Function.

[velvet raft]

But AFB from Arms of the Chosen

[bleak hazel]

ah, so it does

I feel "I have moved all these conditions to a trigger that I will inevitably hit when I draw my sword and do one move with it" is a little cheeky, but you do eventually get difficult terrain on the ground just from the sword

[velvet raft]

Any thoughts on tuning it down?

I thought it might be alright because it’s actually not amazingly trivial to raise intensity

[bleak hazel]

probably 5+ 1/2 intensity, because you are upgrading that to work essentially anywhere

and then a slightly higher threshold on the decisive damage thing, maybe Downpour

[velvet raft]

For the soak?

[bleak hazel]

yeah

[velvet raft]

Mm, okay

Makes sense

Especially given there are other ways to make bad weather like that spell I don’t know yet

Thanks

[bleak hazel]

it's an artifact 5 and then an essence 5 capstone that you've just skipped to with Supernal, so really we're in "fuck it, it'll kind of work" territory

average solar

[velvet raft]

Aye, but I don’t want to be too silly

I’m trying not to, you know

[tulip folio]

Silly pondering if you wanna tone things down?

Make it not grounded enemies.

Make it flying/airborne enemies get the difficult terrain

As you're fighting strong buffeting winds blowing you off course

It affects less dudes but it's still shiny and fits the fluff

[velvet raft]

The reason I made it grounded is because flying is a high-intensity effect of Stormcaller

But I’ll take another look at it

[bleak hazel]

you do get "all ground is considered difficult" 3 intensity below "all flying is considered difficult"

so it will obsolete itself one way or the other

[velvet raft]

Oh I missed that

Or forgot it

[bleak hazel]

I've outlined my thoughts on Supernal already so I won't repeat myself, but the core splat of the game having to regulate the power level of several of its capstone abilities purely on vibes because they are accessible at E1 and provide very little guidance on what they actually do does really annoy me as someone who occasionally does some game design

[tulip folio]

A minor grumble about Supernal?

[bleak hazel]

see also: Integrity, that one psychonauts charm that has literally zero rules text attached beyond "make it up" and a couple of the brawl charms that have almost incomprehensible text

[tulip folio]

Man, some of the Solar abilities get a lot less out of supernal than others.

[velvet raft]

Yep

Golden Calibration helps a bit

But not enough

[tulip folio]

Solar War ends at essence 3 XD

[bleak hazel]

I have my own gripes with Golden Calibration, but it is immensely easier to use

[velvet raft]

Either way, I’m trying to focus on this particular case rather than establish principles for all things to follow

[bleak hazel]

GC's explicit policy of "don't nerf overly strong stuff, buff or rework weak/nonfunctional stuff" means that a) GC solars are stronger and b) they keep wandering outside Solar design space because it wasn't made with the other books in view

[dense verge]

most solar trees end at E3, which annoys me

[bleak hazel]

so you get things like E1 instant tiger warriors that you can make out of troops that you summon up from nowhere with no training time, completely obsoleting Sidereal War's vizier stuff

[velvet raft]

I’m somewhat forgiving because GC explicitly states it’s meant to be a compromise, and if Rand were just doing it for himself he’d make more extensive changes

And also shit’s actually readable

[bleak hazel]

I don't really buy that because who are you compromising with

[tulip folio]

I really like the alch 'make your soldiers badass' one where it sets some gates on how well you can do various essence levels.

Where the lowest version is 'You can make soldiers badass if they're fighting in defence of their homes'

And then 'you can make them badass if they're fighting creatures of darkness'

And then finally you can make them more Generally Badass

[velvet raft]

Anyway: reduce the soak bonus, think about difficult terrain, make the big decisive hit harder to trigger

And then look at dice pools and misc charms

[coral wraith]

Oh misc made some of these?

Nice

[upper stratus]

good one briar

[bleak hazel]

should probably move this alch away from my traditional skill mix of "fighting + crafting + awareness"

VBOS is definitely going in there, what else shall we do

big Lore?

[wise ocean]

Misc when there's crafting at the function:

[bleak hazel]

alchs in theory have an easy time with crafting because they can unplug all their crafting charms and replace them with combat fits when they're on mission

but in practice I already have two crafters

wondering if this is triggered on crash or whether I need to use it to augment an attack

I think it might be the former, since most things you need to call before you swing are Supplemental

[prisma sun]

Yeah it's not supplemental

so it's whenever you crash

[bleak hazel]

sweet

Water Dragon is a really mean toolkit honestly

between Drowning-in-Blood, Theft-of-Essence, Bottomless Depths Defence and Essence-Dousing Wave Attack you have a bunch of stuff deebs struggle to get elsewhere

mote regen, dirt cheap damage boosters, perfect defence and forced charm deactivation, which you really want when the solar grows five more -0 health levels

[prisma sun]

Deactivates Your Ox-Body Technique

[fierce star]

It probably says something that I am seriously considering dropping an artifact perfect for my character (a resplendent satchel of healing for a medicine-focused alchemical) for the sake of getting a prehensile tail that I can have her multifunctional hypodermic apparatus installed on, because tails with syringes on them is a great aesthetic

and what is exalted if not a gamea bout aesthetics?

[wise ocean]

The only thing that matters is aura

[mighty rover]

hype moments and anima

[fierce star]

... no ID, do not make your alchemical have wings, horns, and a 'spade' (hypodermic needle) tipped tail just becuase you bought thousandfold courtesan calculations

stop steroetyping yourself

[tulip folio]

So I guess ID's going with that now.

[fierce star]

i'd have to drop more artifacts! Or submodules.

I guess I don't need all these stat swaps submodules...

no id, bad id

[wise ocean]

No one can stop you from making alchubus

[coral wraith]

get a sorcerer to give you them later

best of both worlds

[fierce star]

I mean I am a sorcerer

and like worst case scenario I can just buy the mutations charm

[coral wraith]

then you can do the sorcerous working on yourself!

easy money

[fierce star]

I'm not much of a sorcerer but given how alchemicals work it behooves any of them with decent intelligence to be a sorcerous martial aritist with a lot of artifacts

just have my control spell

[wise ocean]

"whatever. go my control spell" - alchs apparently

[fierce star]

I'll learn death of obsidian cockroaches eventually

the big reason for me to take it at chargen is because while the alchemical martial arts charm is explicilty a shortcut, the sorcery one isn't; you still have to undergo all the initiations and rarifications of your essence and etc

which would be a whole mini adventure in itself over the course of several arcs, which is fine, it'd be fun, but i'm not super interested in exploring that when I already know what the character as a sorcerer would be

[tulip folio]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gtCOddPlkDDgIWg9o1iJdWi0XxmCYW9j6Py1GBFE3vw/edit?usp=sharing Hmm...pondering how many Familiar Dots this would be worth.

[fierce star]

hmm. Probably two, I'd say?

It's mroe combat capable than like, An Bird, but it's no tyrand lizard or unicorn