Exalted

[bleak hazel]

so I'd tick it up to 6

[tulip folio]

Fair. Wasn't 100% sure where 'lots of prereqs' falls in balancing.

[bleak hazel]

I think Essence 2 is before the point you start explicitly adjusting the juice budget for access difficulty, at least when I'm brewing

like, that's a starting deeb

starting deeb absolutely adores that charm and will happily use that instead of the standard melee charms

[tulip folio]

Fair

That leaves just one more charm and while I have a concept, I'm not sure if it's too much for a Fancy Trick.

Reset 1/scene (So you can't keep doing it), 1 WP costing 'This attack is now vs a social defence, not a physical defence'. Like how God-Scourging Wail hits Resolve instead of Parry or Dodge.

[bleak hazel]

works and has precedent, if you want to be safe make it Withering-only

Sids have that in their melee tree, The Spear Not Held

God-Scourging Wail doesn't scale with initiative, The Spear Not Held is a soakbuster, I think it's fairly consistent there

[tulip folio]

Iki gets confused why they can't find The Spear Not Held
Realizes they defaulted to looking through martial arts in the book when told about sids and melee combat

[bleak hazel]

also very fun that GSW applies the Unblockable keyword rather than just making parry inapplicable, it means that if necessary you can pop Heavenly Guardian Defence or Serenity In Blood and cut Whispers in half

[tulip folio]

Found it now. XD

[bleak hazel]

sid melee is basically a martial art

it has a form and everything

looks like the two consistent factors between GSW and TSNH is that neither of them are "regular" decisives and both of them are very pricy

[tulip folio]

Yeah. I'm likely to make it rather similar to The Spear Not Held in this area, being a Soakbuster.

It's to sorta emulate a classic of more sorcerous wuxia characters. Fucking up your chi (Or in this case, essence) flows. It's inside you, so you can't dodge or parry it but your self control can dispel it.

[bleak hazel]

TSNH is really fun, because you don't have to move

someone can shit talk you and you just stare at them until they have a flashback of the chesshouse fight in Hero and fall to their knees

[tulip folio]

The martial artist fucks up your essence flows and then you Just Fucking Explode unless you can get your out of control essence under control. XD

[bleak hazel]

interesting combo I realised existed while I was poking standard martial art damage boosters to compare to yours

this + soulfire form

if they have a Defining intimacy and fail to hit you with a -10 penalty you get a full refund of the value of the charm, because soul-fire shaper form lets you turn incoming initiative directly into motes

[tulip folio]

That's a Big Fucking Penalty.

[bleak hazel]

it's big

Sid charmtech has to provide some good ways of getting those ties on there

leaving "Sid black claw stylist" on the bench for later

[tulip folio]

Sid Worst Ex

[bleak hazel]

the best part is I'm fairly sure Solars have no general purpose attack penalty negator

they do have a bunch of defending-their-intimacies charmtech, though

[tulip folio]

...I know Alchs have a negator that would apply to it but I'm damned if I know which one it is. XD

They've got an 'applies vs internal penalties'

[bleak hazel]

still, even with a minor it still gets the cost of this charm down to 1m 1i or 2m

[tulip folio]

And a 'applies vs external penalties'

[bleak hazel]

which is not a lot for a -8 penalty

[tulip folio]

But I"m not sure if an external opponent using your own intimacies against you is internal or external. XD

As that's also got an internal aspect

[bleak hazel]

little birthday boy sid is harmless, why would you punch him?

[tulip folio]

Even better when arcane fate gets involved.

And people just go 'We saw the solar beating up Some Guy'

[bleak hazel]

wait, how does Heart-Ripping Claw even work on alchemicals

you rip out the soul gem?

[tulip folio]

I imagine you'd rip out the essence pump or whatever they've got

They're noted to have something comparable to most human parts

[bleak hazel]

also this is a very mild reset condition considering you want to get the ties worked up anyway

[tulip folio]

'You can't do it again unless you do the thing you are literally doing every action'

[bleak hazel]

bonus points for grabbing the training sections of Throne Shadow and using it to teach people Black Claw

you know, the thing that fixes a Minor Tie of Love towards your teacher in you forever when you learn it

classic "I taught you everything you know, I didn't teach you everything I know" moment

that only needs three charms, and one of them scales off Guile nicely too

alternatively I'm sure there are other training effects in the Sid charmset

[tulip folio]

'This enemy must be one she has previously harmed this scene with a withering or decisive attack' - Does this make sense/seem like a decent restriction? The intent is that the big attack is you Revealing A Thing You Set Earlier.

So you need to have hit them previously in the scene to have set it

[bleak hazel]

well, depends how big this thing is, but yes, seems reasonable

[tulip folio]

Trying to make it a bit more restrictive than The Spear Not Held.

As that's a Celestial Charm and a pretty notable one. XD

Lit Firecracker Eruption
Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: Withering-only, Mastery
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Flower Mirror Style
With a laugh, the martial artist reveals the crescendo of her show...and one she's already prepared.

The Martial Artist makes an ((Intelligence or Wits)) + Larceny) withering attack against an enemy within medium range. This enemy must be one she has previously affected with an Attack, Distract or Pickpocket action, as that is revealed to have set up a dangerous misalignment of the target's essence. This attack is undodgeable and unblockable but the target may apply their Guile to defend against it, as they cannot avoid an attack coming from within but calm will delay and defuse the detonation. The attack ignores armoured soak and adds the target's (Anima) to the raw damage.

Reset: 1/Scene

Mastery: If the target is crashed by this attack, the martial artist may treat the attack as a fear or awe-based inspire roll against everyone who sees her.

I grabbed the 'undodgable and unblockable' from God-Scourging Wail so a low-guile guy can go 'Shit, using my block the unblockable charm on this'. Also requires you already have hit a guy, so it's got more setup.

But it is still a Big Fucking Nuke and the mastery lets you really make this thing a show for the audience.

[bleak hazel]

I like this

the anima thing is very cute

count of all solar charms, leaving this here for reference later

I did not realise Brawl was that big

[coral wraith]

holy christ

[tulip folio]

I almost feel sorry for War, Integrity and Investigation.

Brawl is literally the same size as all 3 of them put together.

And like I know Brawl is a Combat Skill so it's going to have a good number of charms but...so's fucking Archery and it exists in the mid-20s. XD

[bleak hazel]

War and Investigation are both some of the stronger trees, even

Solar Investigation is nuts, Solar War lets you double 7s on strat maneuver at Essence 1 and goes up from there

[tulip folio]

Investigation gets you 'Fuck off, I know everything' in a few charms flat.

[bleak hazel]

presumably because it didn't spread the available Detective Juice among 50 charms

[tulip folio]

Irresistible Questioning Technique is a disgustingly powerful social charm.

Due to those words 'The target of this Charm may pay one Willpower to resist answering a single question, but this grants no immunity to further questioning, or even the same question posed repeatedly.'

So a Solar can go 'Look, I have 10 questions, they're all the same question and you don't have 10 free willpower'

[fierce star]

55 damn charms in craft? Christ

[bleak hazel]

to block that one, you need to use what is presumably out of character knowledge

[fierce star]

Literally can't afford anything else

[bleak hazel]

you spend one willpower and leave the room

[tulip folio]

Sidereal: "AVOIDANCE CHARM!"

[bleak hazel]

very quickly, to stop them yelling the same question over and over again while you run down the corridor

[tulip folio]

Ironically, it's one of the few things that still has MDV: Fist.

If you ask them questions and they just Start A Fight, they no longer need to pay willpower.

[bleak hazel]

and yes, Avoidance Kata remains the one true way

(or just Avoidance, now, I keep forgetting that)

[tulip folio]

As most things don't have 'doesn't cost willpower in combat' these days

[bleak hazel]

to be fair, removing the extraneous Kata is technically a buff

because you have less syllables to yell before you zoop out of the scene

as everyone knows Avoidance needs to be called

[tulip folio]

Sidereals with First Pulse actively shouting 'Pocket Sand' before they vanish

[bleak hazel]

Interesting thing I discovered: apparently the core book backer PDF had way more Evocations for everything, to the point Volcano Cutter had >20 rather than 5

20 charms of sword, so half an E5 character

This may explain the bit in AOTC where it says that 3-dots should have up to 10 evos and 4-dots up to 15, I assume they didn't revise that when they cut the artifacts down to "halfway sane"

[wise ocean]

while you learned charms, I studied the Blade

[coral wraith]

20!!

[bleak hazel]

Not blades in general, mind you

just this one

Since IIRC you can take evocations at chargen instead of charms, it's entirely possible that in the alternate timeline where they kept that there's a young solar who is convinced his entire exaltation is because of the amazing sword that he stole from a first age tomb

excellencies and then 15-20 evos

[tulip folio]

And then he runs into an alch who magnets his sword away

[velvet raft]

Legit tbh

[fierce star]

"my evocs now"

[bleak hazel]

OK 2e, I knew your balance was wild but my god

(flicking through a couple of old Infernals supplements)

[tulip folio]

Drooling Sidereal Sounds

[bleak hazel]

"the demon corruption is merely incredibly good charop, don't worry about it, totally not going Akuma"

Greater Shintai of the Endless Desert rocks, though

you become a mile-wide demon desert instead of a person

[tulip folio]

The Shintai are all very fun and badass. They're not really fantastic as a whole because 2e combat didn't really care about the things they gave but they're very cool and I desperately hope they make a return.

[upper stratus]

i mean i don't see anything here that actually makes you behave more demonic. looks like free money baybee

[tulip folio]

iirc, that one was tied to the Malfean Magical Material, which was 'existing magical materials but corrupted'. So it's likely a Corrupted Manse that gives it.

Vitriol was technically the malfean magical material but you can't make things out of Vitriol

It can only change what already exists.

[bleak hazel]

it is, however, free juice for any exalt with no downside

quick trip to hell to dunk some hearthstones in Kimbery

[fierce star]

are we sure we want to get kimbery involved

[bleak hazel]

I'm sure she's lovely

[fierce star]

she's my favorite yozi but uh

lol

[bleak hazel]

the universal "take no more than one health level from any attack" is pretty great, but you can't dodge, so you'll be out of motes a lot faster from what I recall of paranoia combat

and you just dumped 40 motes so RIP you

[upper stratus]

i don't remember, is using vitriol bad for you or nah

[bleak hazel]

hoping that Meditative Battlefield Escalation from BOKL is about as cool as Endless Desert

I want to have a reality marble duel

[fierce star]

Vitriol is the element of transitioning from one state to another, of burning away impurities and enhancing what is good to what is great and what is great to what is perfect

in

theory

in practice after theion became malfeas it became so infected with malfeas', uh, vitriol that it's gone from a divine alchemical acid into something more akin to a radioactive, self-propagating corruptive influence

metody are pretty chill though

[tulip folio]

Malfeas is vitriol (Change and transition) and vitriol (being a salty bitch).

[upper stratus]

transition?? lets go malfeus baybee love malfeas

[tulip folio]

The former is healthy, the latter is not. So if you can maintain the former, it's fine.

Malfean HRT, just sign this document. Definetly not Akuma-ing.

More seriously: Malfean stuff would 100% be great for that sort of transitioning. One thing malfean magic and malfean charms is fantastic at is 'change'

Not just 'embodying something else' like lunars do but 'changing the fundamental nature of things'. There's a lot of Infernal charms for 'reveal to the world what something is, at its core'

Like one that turns people into First Circle Demons

[upper stratus]

maybe the real demons are the friends we made along the way

[fierce star]

I mean that's kinda how devil tigers went

turn your circle of friends into your third circle demons! surely nothing can go wrong

[bleak hazel]

I will be honest, devil-tigers and personal infernal demiplanes just make me want to throw the infernals book out of the window

but everything besides the Heresy tree kind of rules

yeah this is a reasonable thing for a charm to do

all other exalts are presumably now balanced against Infernals being able to deploy fifteen third circle demons and their attendant 105 second circles, right?

(the rest of being a devil-tiger kind of sucked, because your E6 infernal is now stuck buying E1/E2 devil-tiger charms while his loyalist buddy kept on trucking with elder essence stuff, so your whole deal has become "we Solium Infernum now" in a way that eats the entire plot several times over)

[upper stratus]

i like how revealing this os in a sort of dev mindset of not considering thay the game needs to be practically playable too way

like im trying to imagine the practical execution of running 15 tbird circle demons on the table at the same tkme in addition to everything else and throwing up

[bleak hazel]

I think the idea is that you're now playing a strategy game as Harry Discoelysium, with your council of war held in your inner soul demiplane, rather than going out and smashing things with all your demons in a big ball that no force in Creation has enough juice to counter unless you unite the entire Sidereal host

the fact this does not resemble exalted in any way and also breaks the setting in half as soon as any NPC infernal learns to do this is not really a concern for the devs

[tulip folio]

I think the idea of devil-tiget was a sorta 'look, nobody actually plays above E5. We can write weird thematic asperational things rather than mechanics you'll play with'

Sorta like how Alchemicals Become A City and thus kinda have trouble with most adventures 😛

[bleak hazel]

an alchemical becoming a city is a plot hook for future adventurers a century down the line, a couple of random infernals going devil-tiger and becoming unbound primordial-solars is a great way to remove all plots that are not "fight the reclamation/whatever they decide to do instead" from existence

also "unbound primordial-solar" is so far out of scope compared to everything else in the game that you have just prevented all dragonbloods and any other exalts below about Essence 6 from occupying any position of even vague relevance, but this was 2e, so go wild

[upper stratus]

that's probably also why they wrote 5 pages on sun metaphysics that players will never really interact with

[fierce star]

forgetting 'if you write it, they will fight it'

there's a holden quote about this actually and while it's one I disagree with on some levels it points out some things about ex3's mechanical themes

[bleak hazel]

I was just about to quote that one

I wanted to climb those mountains nobody ever had the guts to climb before, I wanted to stat what they said couldn't or shouldn't be statted. And we did. And looking back, I don't think it improved the game. [...] I looked up one day and the game was all about [...] Yozis and Solars hip-tossing people across the universe and characters hijacking the sun and flying it into the Ebon Dragon's face and it was like—this is not the game I fell in love with back at Scavenger Sons, what happened here? Where's the Realm? Where's Jubei fighting the Eight Devils of Kimon? Where's the Brotherhood of the Peach Orchard swearing to reform a corrupt and crumbling empire? Where's Conan carving his legend into the kingdoms of men in fire and blood? Where's Azhrarn, Prince of Demons, falling in love with a mortal man and taking vengeance when his heart is broken? When did everything become so noisy and gonzo and clumsy?

[fierce star]

Hey same hat

[bleak hazel]

extremely rare Holden W, I think

[fierce star]

It's mostly got decent points but it was also used as a reason to dial down some of the gonzo parts that were cool

still overall a W yeah

[valid summit]

I'm with him on this one

[upper stratus]

im afraid i must admit he cooked

[fierce star]

(basically I liked things like magitech, craft (genesis) and the other such lost arts of the first age being like,... a thing?)

(but all that got dialed back or outright deleted in the process of makign the setting less gonzo)

[bleak hazel]

you can very much still do those, you just don't have exhaustive stats for all of them

[fierce star]

(RIP Craft (Genesis), you gave my PCs triple-headed tyrant lizards with acid blood that breathed fire)

@tulip folio Remember the Trirant Lizards?

weren't they cool

[bleak hazel]

I think a quick couple of pages could duct tape them back into a perfectly usable form, though

the mutation system is quite good

and there are already myriad effects for sticking mutations on things

Magitek I think is actually better served these days because your warstrider actually has a giant list of buttons to press

[fierce star]

Oh yeah, my complaint here is like

almost entirey on the H+H devs

the new team is much more willing to work with, but not like, obscenely over-write, this sorta stuff if that makes sense?

[bleak hazel]

I think this accidentally worked out quite well, because the deliberate heavy downplaying of that stuff in the corebook reinforces that this stuff is rare and difficult and awesome

when the Abyssal hits the ride capstone and turns their yeddim into a mini-juggernaut that is in fact the scariest thing for half a direction because everyone else has a horse or a big bird and you will continue interacting with people who have horses and birds

[fierce star]

legit

[bleak hazel]

to be fair that was technically meant to be the case in 2e but in practice you immediately graduated to The Big Leagues, which is a tiny club of a hundred or so elders who just have this stuff as price of admission

I just realised this is the same reason I dislike "modern" 40k, it's just like thirty named characters brawling in a room

makes the world very small

[upper stratus]

i think they really slipped by making essence 2-3 achieveable during chargen and then also giving a lot of mechanic incentive to do so

[fierce star]

Ex3's method of essence progression is so much better

honestly a big thing is I like airships, and feel liek they should be a little more... not necessarily common, but pushed in the like, 'mtg card design' sense? The arms of the chosen artifact 5 airship is a flying howdah. I want at least naval frigates in the air!

I realize nothing stops me from designing such, and I have, but they're technically more than the setting assumes to exist, AFAIK

[tulip folio]

They were very cool Bring back Craft(Genesis), player characters can be trusted with them.

[tulip folio]

It's kinda funny that I think the non-artifact autothonian airships have more have more beef to them than the Solar Arms of the Solar Chosen Solars Airships, despite the latter being artifacts.

Like, the artifact ones have Bigger Numbers sure

But the non-artifact autothonian ones feel like they've got more scale

If that remotely makes sense?

[bleak hazel]

that seems fair, honestly

Autobot has always been big on the Mortal Engines grand vistas of industry

[upper stratus]

i'll support any sentiment that sees solars outdone by other exalts

[fierce star]

I mean I have two hot takes there

[tulip folio]

oh?

[fierce star]

one: lunars should be equal or better sorcerers and necromancers than solars and abyssals (but not both at once, and probably requiring more effort maybe?) due to their associations with transgression and liminal states and spaces
two: alchemicals should be better at evocations and crafting than solars

[upper stratus]

spit your shit

[fierce star]

also solars should get the 'turn any improvised weapon into an artifact' charm instead of glorious solar X and sidereal's equivalent should be 'I always had this knife on me, what are you talking about'

energy/elemental weapons should be DB stuff (or like, essence pulse cannon because it's a cannon, it gets a pass)

[upper stratus]

sids do have that but it just generates weapons you already have rather than artifacts

armor too

[bleak hazel]

"I was always wearing this plate armour, what are you talking about" is a very funny charm even if the use case is a bit marginal

[upper stratus]

joke's on them. im not allowed plate armor anyway

[prisma sun]

https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/exalted-essence-players-guide

[next delta]

Expanded Exalt-specific rules for unique features such as Sidereal destinies and Lunar shapeshifting.

Oh, neat

[bleak hazel]

this is great, I did think that cramming all the Sid prophecy/resplendent destiny stuff down to one anima power was perhaps a little tight

they did a good job, it's a very generally applicable button and I hear Sids are very strong indeed, but the limits of the format necessarily rounded off some of the juice

[next delta]

"Infernal Exalted" being the retailer pledge name is a questionable choice lol

[bleak hazel]

OK, let's make a Sidereal raid boss configuration

Ways of Exaltation + Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Form set to Soulfire + Crane Form + a third form, probably Sid Melee or Water Dragon

[next delta]

I like how if you are wearing tight-fitting clothing it might be torn or stained in combat

[bleak hazel]

use either Indomitable Shieldbearer Expertise from Sid Melee or Flowing Water Defence from Water Dragon to flurry a full defence action with an attack whenever feasible, and then use Soulfire Form to refill on 10 motes a round from all the counterattacks

Full Moon Lunar Ways or Moonsilver Alchemical Ways + World-Shaping Artistic Vision means that your counterattacks have mostly-full excellencies baked in and will reliably be scoring hits, and your parry sits at 13 with stunting (7 base + 2 full defence + 2 Exalt Ways + 1 crane form + 1 stunt)

go, fight a whole circle of rookies

they want to grapple and restrain you or clash you to death, because you can't counterattack an attack you are simultaneously clashing

far from invincible when you've committed something like 48 motes out of your 74 to get all your scenelongs up while using artifact weapons + armour, but very reliable, especially since you can always just not swing and let 13-15 parry hold up decently

bonus +1 parry for red sids or +5 overwhelming on purple sids, which is pretty mean when your reflexive withering counterattacks are reliably smacking someone with about 12 successes and 9 overwhelming for 0 motes

[limpid badge]

i love exalted

[fierce star]

that concept speaks to me in ways both immediate and esoteric

[mighty rover]

all the DB stuff is effectively on sale with the add ons
i think i might be ready to take the plunge

[tulip folio]

Hmm...I wonder what 2e martial arts would be most fun to bring to 3e.

[fierce star]

why not the virtue styles?

[tulip folio]

...which were the virtue styles?

[fierce star]

The arts of Forceful Declaration, Meditative Discussion, Relentless Persuasion, and Victorious COncession from The Imperfect Lotus. They were a big thingi n heaven since they were from an area of yu-shan where gods went to debate what virtues were best.

virtues aren't quite a thingi n ex3 anymore but the fluff of them was always cool since they were equal parts debate style and martial art

[tulip folio]

I'd have to reread them to remember their 'thing' but they could be interesting.

I could see them doing something similar to Black Claw.

Except instead of getting a love for your master, you get a Principle

As you can't embody that style without dedicating yourself to a philosophical principle

[fierce star]

ooh

[limpid badge]

abyssals are fun

[tulip folio]

...I wonder if bringing Five Dragon Style to 3e could be fun. It's amusingly enough not the style that became Dragonblooded Brawl (That was Terrestial Hero Style).

Jade Mountain Style suffers from 'okay but why not just learn Earth Dragon' unless it gets a full redo.

Why are there like 6 different 'I'm a ninja!' styles? Christ.

Falling Blossom Style could be done but I worry it might overlap a bit much with Crane style, as crane has a fair bit of 'defend other' too in 3e.

I'm not touching Laughing Wounds or Orgiastic Fugitive styles.

I like the thematics of Golden Exhalation more than Rightous Devil but they're both very 'I am the Firearms Style' (Terrestial and Celestial) so it might be tricky to make distinct. XD

[fierce star]

Isn't orgiastic fugitive more drugs than the implied carnal stuff

I vaguely remember it being opium pipes and drunken boxing

[tulip folio]

Moreso, yeah.

[fierce star]

Laughing wounds is just BDSM and it'd share a capstone with black claw, so it's probably not worth porting anyway

there's only so many ways to do 'I rip out his heart and crush it' as a MA capstone

[tulip folio]

I'm sure Sono would argue she needs at least 3.

...you could move one of the capstones down to the form and make for a fun Orgiastic Fugitive form.

Where you just Passively Drain 1 Init from everyone in close when you activate.

Due to the sheer haze of intoxicants around you

[fierce star]

hah

[tulip folio]

Like I think if I was to update it to 3e I'd make it a bit more celestial-grade

In that it's less just about being drunk

And more about 'Oh god, what the fuck, how is this guy a black hole that drains soberity from all about him'?

...Resistance would be the skill for being All About Those Intoxicants, wouldn't it?

[fierce star]

probably so, yeah

[tulip folio]

Saturnalia Memoriam Kick adding +Resistance (Or maybe socialize?) to damage

...wait...

@fierce star steal from brewie for this.

[fierce star]

:D

(add resistanc eif YOU'RE intoxicated, socialize if THEY'RE intoxicate, higher of either if both)

[tulip folio]

Clarity of Mind Moment
Cost: 4m 1i; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The martial artist's mind is a tangle of intoxication and rambling thoughts but there is a kernel of enlightenment within it, drawing him to the perfect place against his foes assaults.

This charm cancels all onslaught penalties to the martial artist’s Dodge against a single attack, instead converting each point of penalty into a +1 bonus to her Dodge.

Mastery: This Charm’s duration is extended until the martial artist’s next turn. 

Drunken Monk Loses His Sash
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Counterattack, Decisive-only, Terrestrial
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Orgiastic Fugitive Form
The drunken fool of a martial artist seems to be everywhere and nowhere, causing blows to smash into walls even as she turns lethal brawls into sobbing hugs.

This charm can be used to respond to an attack with a Disarm, Grapple or Distract Gambit. The target of this counterattack must also make a (Wits + Dodge) at a difficulty equal to the martial artist's Guile or be poisoned with an essence-enhanced version of the martial artist's intoxicant of choice (Treat as Arrow Frog Venom with the Hallucinogenic Enhanced Toxin benefit)

Terrestrial: The target of the counterattack is not exposed to the intoxicant if the Gambit fails.

[tulip folio]

Orgiastic Fugitive Form
Cost: 8m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 1
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: Clarity of Mind Moment, Saturnalia Memoriam Kick
The martial artist knows there is no way that her opponents can abuse her body more than it has already been abused with the ravages of drink and fun. Swaying and bobbing, her unpredictable movements and intoxicating aura provide the following benefits:

-She suffers no Penalty to Defence or Actions from Poison or being Prone.
-She adds +Socialize her her Soak.
-Hostile characters within Short Range do not treat time within that area towards the Duration of toxins, though they continue to suffer harm at Intervals as normal.

[limpid badge]

horrible mistake now i have to write evocations for a sword that wants to kill the world

[tulip folio]

Hahahah, poor Delilah. And here I am, writing up martial arts. XD

[limpid badge]

hiiiii iki i dug myself a hole

the hole is labeled Eovactions for Artifact 5

[tulip folio]

Oh you be stuffed. What's the artifact's themes/do you have a mechanical role for it?

[limpid badge]

The Black Blade of Sorrow, Soulsteel and Primordial Bone Grand Daiklaive

a sword that wants to kill the world, because its a tiny shard of the neverborn's desire to die, sheathed in a pillar of bone hewn from its tomb-body

[tulip folio]

Okay so

I have a tonic that covers a multitude of sins.

It won't give you all the evocations

[limpid badge]

basic thought so far is making it a trick weapon where its a goremaul until the blade is actually pulled

and i know that its attunement bonus is You get whispers

[tulip folio]

But it can give you one that can do a lot of the the 'I am doing cool ending shit outside of combat' effect

[limpid badge]

Oho?

Please, Im happy to root thru parts

[tulip folio]

Heaven and Earth Gauntlets has a charm that I love and I feel is a very easy 'You want you to do Big Cool Thematic Things' charm.

Legend-Forging Blow
Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Meteor Fist Meditation
Calling up limitless depths of power from the Heaven and Earth Gauntlets, the wielder strikes an almighty blow to carve her name into legend. She may unleash one of the following effects:
• She can knock back an enemy of up to Legendary Size, like a tyrant lizard or a warstrider, with a decisive attack. A hit flings the enemy three range bands backwards; if flung into an obstacle, he may suffer falling damage (Exalted, p. 232) at the Storyteller’s discretion.
• The wielder can smash through heavy fortifications with a single punch, doubling her effective base Strength to determine if she may attempt a given feat of demolition (Exalted, p. 231). Success destroys the targeted object instantly, while failure indicates the wielder will need to spend at least a few minutes more to destroy it.
• The wielder can use Legend-Forging Blow to stunt other applications of strength, such as diverting the course of a river by force or halting an avalanche in place with a single blow. The Storyteller should enhance these stunts with benefits comparable to the above options.

Legend-Forging Blow can only be used once per story, unless reset by upholding a positive Defining Tie towards a community by defeating a powerful enemy that threatens it. The Dawn Caste anima power cannot reset this Evocation.

Legend Forging Blow is that 'Hey, this is an artifact that can Shape The World' effect that you really want out of a world-killer

I made use of it with my own blade that would hate your blade, reflavouring bits to fit its themes.

[limpid badge]

ooooh

[tulip folio]

It's not the most notable 'I will Fight Good' charm but I feel like it carries a lot of weight when you want an artifact to feel like it's a lever that can lift the world, if that remotely makes sense?

[limpid badge]

No no, I definitely see what you mean

Its just also a little bit beyond where i am in terms of planning, and mostly just good to set aside

a thought I was having was, making it a mote-battery style artifact where it drinks souls to power itself

[tulip folio]

Since you're an abyssal, maybe give it a permanent charm that's an upgrade to the existing abyssal 'when I kill a spirit, it fucking stays dead'? Where that helps you charge the mote battery as well?

[limpid badge]

Yeahhh honestly, good good plan, where'd that sucker go...

actually theres melee charms for drinking motes out of people... probably good to upgrade that hrmn nrhn

im not sure if i should lean into my original idea of the weapon being a "trick" weapon and have pulling the sword be an actual dramatic moment/descisive attacks

and otherwise she's fighting you with just the "sheath"*

*fucking neverborn bones

[tulip folio]

I did that for a weapon. Well, sorta.

It was a Staff that became a Scythe

[limpid badge]

right!! I remember

[tulip folio]

I think 'can be two different weapons' is a very reasonable effect.

As to be frank, there isn't a whole heap of bonus to being two mutually exclusive weapons unless one is ranged and one is melee

So it falls into 'nice but not going to break anything'

[limpid badge]

yeah fair. its more picking to use Balanced or Smashing

[tulip folio]

Silly pondering; Have you considered any horrible 'when you eat a soul' effects that might not be directly combat but would be fun for adding some flavour/some non-combat aspects to the soul eating?

The thing on my brain: When you eat a soul, he's so dead that even his memory is gone. People forget him (Use the mechanics of arcane fate, save that nobody except the weilder of the artifact ignores it).

[limpid badge]

hahahahahah

worth throwing on the pile

[tulip folio]

Sorry if I'm not being super useful, just trying to ponder what would be good effects for 'I eat souls and end the world' that isn't already covered by 'I'm an Abyssal, I am very good at those things already'. XD

[limpid badge]

yeah that's why im playing around with like... its construction

and thinking about giving it fun battlefield control effects while relying on Abyssal Melee to just handle the actual kill the world shit

drop the sheath on someone's shadow to pin them, then cut them down... that kinda thing

[upper stratus]

i think pinning someone's shadow is a charm in sidereal thrown if you wanna draw inspiration from that

[limpid badge]

excellent, the best way to homebrew is to steal lots of parts

in other news, touys

[tulip folio]

btw, how do these martial arts charms seem? Trying to update an old terrestial 2e style to 3e but with a bit more...spice to it. Adding a bit more 'drunken' to the drunken boxing style with poison usage. XD

[tulip folio]

The intent with the style will be a dodgy, defensive style that works more with debuffs and draining than direct damage

[velvet raft]

In fairness, given how tilted towards dragon-bloods the dragon styles are, I think it's reasonable to have similar styles that don't specifically rely on you being a DB

[tulip folio]

That's fair, though I'd still likely want to find a sorta...vibe to it that makes it distinct even for DBs. If that makes sense?

[velvet raft]

It does, yeah

Just noting that at present there really is no option like that which works well for non-DBs, I guess

[tulip folio]

I think the area I'd likely play with is that jade is often a symbol of purity, not just durability.

Give it a bit more of a Holistic Defence, not just physical defence (Though yes, still lots of physical defence)

[upper stratus]

i think it's healthy for deebs to have their special litlte treats for themselves (i say knowing full well i can copy them with exalt ways)

[velvet raft]

Even the physical defense could be less "I absorb everything with my boundless stamina" and more "shit just slides off of me"

Trying to pierce the skin of a Jade Mountain practitioner is like trying to stick a needle into solid jade or something

[tulip folio]

I was thinking stuff like like 'Oh come on, you can't poison jade'

[velvet raft]

Definitely

[tulip folio]

Make it very 'I'm a defensive style that might not have the Raw Durability of Earth Dragon but I'm still Really Fucking Durable and I've got a lot of resistance to tricky stuff that would bypass my soak'.

You hit me with a goremaul or you go home

[velvet raft]

Yeah that's fitting

[tulip folio]

...I think I have an idea for a big trick of the form.

[velvet raft]

You can hurt Jade Mountain with a sufficiently enormous blow, but you can't generally trick your way through

[tulip folio]

If an effect would negate your soak, you may still apply half of your soak, rounded up. If an effect would reduce your soak, it only reduces it half as much, rounded down.

So like, Earth Dragon has More Soak but Jade Mountain goes 'Wow, that's a nasty soakbuster...I still get some soak though'

Sad Piercing Weapon Sounds

But for now, I shouldn't split my focus.

[tulip folio]

As I'm messing about with Orgiastic Fugitive, for Drunken Master Stuff.

Trying to make it feel different to Toad, the other 'I am defensive and have some poison aspects' style but going harder on the poison as a major thing and not really making it as focused on 'Hit me as hard as you want, I can take it' and more on evasion.

[mighty rover]

which Exalted types are all-new for 3e?

[dense verge]

getimians, liminals, exigents, only exigents have a book out for 3e, but everyone is represented in Essence

[mighty rover]

cool cool

Getimians succeeded in grabbing my attention, so I guess I'll have to be patient to find out what their deal is

[dense verge]

you can read about them in the Essence book, it has most of their deal

[next delta]

They are isekaid from a timeline that never was where they were heroes and are generally upset that they, and the changes they wrought, were cut out of the loom of fate. They have a pattern spider in their spine and their powers often involve temporary reasserting their timeline as well as glitching out Creation (e.g. they have a bunch of teleports)

[mighty rover]

oooooh

[upper stratus]

there's also the three new noncanon exalt types un exigents

[lament owl]

I am never not thinking about heart eaters. I like them a lot

[upper stratus]

heart eaters, dreamsouled and uh. the shadow man

i don't remember

[lament owl]

Pneumbral

Who get their powers from:

The Mutilated and Defiled Corpse Of The Aurora Borealis Incarna
A distant, very powerful wyld entity
And the incarna of Exalted Planet X, respectively

[next delta]

You get a shadow friend that has wants you do to bad things

I like how instead of taking control away from your character, the meter for the shadows influence is mostly a mechanic (it determines which intimacies are in effect and effects some charms) and a roleplay guide for the player

Because it's for people who want to roleplay someone who is very conflicted about their inner demons

[tulip folio]

I wonder what the cheapest 'knock a guy prone' charm is. Thunder Hammer is E1 but is also A) A fucking terror that shouldn't be used as an example B) More about the throwing the guy into the sun than just the knockdown.

I think Reed-Breaking Banda is likely the cheapest/most basic.

[fierce star]

@tulip folio
Clarity of the mind moment: seems really strong, though it is decisive only. I might push it up to 5m or 2i for the cost?
Drunk Monk Loses His Sash: This seems fine as-is to me, no notes
Orgiastic Fugitive Form: I love the third bit, the second is good, my question on the first is would poison that causes wound penalties mean you wouldn't take the wound penalty if that wound box was filled in from poison?

[tulip folio]

Nah it's purely about the Penalty Trait of poisons

[fierce star]

kk

I figured as much, and honestly you can't design against like, abuse of intent like that anyway

[tulip folio]

Ironically, clarity of mind is the one I"m most sure about. XD

As it's a type-swapped version of an existing charm.

Revolving Crescent Defense from White Reaper is 'this but parry instead of dodge'

Hmm...I wonder what the mote + wp cost is for 'redirect an attack'

Basicly: If you successfully dodge, the attack is rerolled against another character.

[fierce star]

I believe that's a DB charm somewhere in DB dodge?

safety among enemies; 5m1wp, decisive-only, dodge 5/ess 3

you have to have more initiative than both targets combined, but it fully rerolls the attack against the new target, same dice pool

[tulip folio]

nods
So likely a bit much for a martial art non-capstone charm.

(I was looking at 2e things for that classic jackie chan 'you swing and he dodges and you hit something')

[fierce star]

yeha, it's very iconic of DB dodge

it's acutally how the main character solar dies in the ex2 comics! :D

(obviously this would never happen in an actual game of ex2)

[tulip folio]

Maybe 'if you successfully dodge an attack, the attacker loses additional init'?

Drunken Monk Finds His Sandal
Cost: 4m; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Drunken Monk Loses His Sash, I Wasn’t There Understanding
Fate smiles on children and fools, and the fortunate reveler has aspects of both. The way he stumbles and bumbles around, pondering the hidden natures of everyday things, he should be a simple target. Unfortunately for his opponents, this uncoordinated nature protects him as he stops without warning or bends over to look at an interesting bug. 

When the Martial Artist successfully Dodges an attack, the attacker loses (Essence) Initiative, which the martial artist doesn’t gain.

[fierce star]

That could be fun!

[tulip folio]

This could theoretically stop 'Solar making a billion decisive attacks' as you can't make decisive attacks while crashed but that would require dodging several attacks getting there most likely.

[bleak hazel]

hilariously it used to be a lot stronger, making it immediately plausible

now it presumably means that said solar was getting totally wrecked beforehand

[fierce star]

IIRC it was... I forget, it wasn't whichever was actually good between combo-ok and combo-basic in ex2? I vaguely remember something about it not being useful in paranoia combat, but i'm goign to be honest i've lost almost all knowledge of chungianism for the better

[bleak hazel]

no idea what it was like in 2e, I'm talking about the draft version of the deeb book

someone rolled out that fight in Ex3 and it went basically exactly as written on the second try, which is fun

[mighty rover]

looking at Essence and i am Determined to figure out character creation

Anything I need to know that the book might not explain clearly?

[fierce star]

oooh

[next delta]

Ugh, there was definitely something but I don't remember right now

I think character creation was pretty straightforward

[prisma sun]

You could make it so on a successful dodge you choose 1:

1. The enemy makes a feat of demolition of a target of your choosing within close range. You give them a free full excellency for this roll.

2. They get stuck like the Lunar impact charms and need to pull themselves free from the terrain.

[next delta]

I think there are 3e charms with the "dodge and the enemy hits someone else". I think Solars have one and maybe DBs?

[bleak hazel]

making a Sid and pondering a combination of Crane and Black Claw

[mighty rover]

oooooh

[bleak hazel]

War enthusiast Redsid teamed up with a War Supernal Solar who cannot personally fight for toffee unless mounted alongside a battlegroup

viziermaxxing

[next delta]

This might be the most expensive essence charm:

The pre-req is pretty cool:

(for reference, you have 10 motes at Essence 3, and 15 at 5)

[upper stratus]

it's nice of deebs to find a way to inflict collatoral Limit on solar circles, keeps things exciting

[tulip folio]

I Wasn't There Understanding
Cost: 3m, 2i; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Terrestial
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Orgiastic Fugitive Style
The martial artists assailants, clear-headed and willing to let her walk into their blows, somehow miss her. Once they do, the weight and expectation they put behind the attack carries them forward and beyond her. 

Upon a successful Dodge, the Martial Artist may invoke this Charm, sending her foe stumbling. She may force her attacker to move a single range band, even if her attacker has already used her movement for this round. She may only move the attacker ways in which they could naturally move, so while a flier could be sent tumbling into the sky, someone limited to grounded movement could not unless he's made to wander off a cliff.

Terrestrial: This does not count as the attacker's movement for this round.

Updating an old 2e martial arts charm, which was Opposite Leaping Dodge, moving the attacker rather than the defender.

Added +2m over Leaping Dodge as 'controlling enemy movement' seems like it can do some Real Nonsense

[fierce star]

'unless he's made to wander off a cliff' lmao

[tulip folio]

Also: Man, Orgiastic Fugitive is a 'improve dodge' heavy style. more than one of the post-form E2 effects are 'when you dodge, do a mean trick'. XD

[fierce star]

lol

[tulip folio]

Hmm...I'm pondering something with the form weapons.

Do you think it would be reasonable to note that bottles of alcohol and other improvised weapon intoxicants are considered to have Thrown(Short)?

Saturnalia Memoriam
Cost: 4m; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Decisive-only
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
Having attended a pleasant party, there is joy in that memory, and there is strength in joy. Anyone who has tried to take a doll from a child or a bottle from an alley wino can attest to that. In the right mindset, a stiff drink or a good drug can bring those memories vividly to mind.

If the stylist deals decisive damage with an attack, her enemy is exposed to an essence-enhanced version of the martial artist's intoxicatant of choice. It has Damage 3i/round (Causing Willpower loss in Crash), Duration 5 rounds, and a −2 penalty.

The stylist can also use this charm to deliver the intoxicant directly with a difficulty 3 Gambit, instead of attempting to do it alongside damage. For many martial artists, this involves tossing a bottle of their favourite drink directly into the opponent's face.

How's this seem?

[fierce star]

I think that's reasonable; and the charm looks good to me!

[tulip folio]

The toxin is basicly 'Arrow Frog Venom + Hallucinogenic toxin bonus'

So it can't kill people but it can drain init and WP just fine

[tulip folio]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hz0AYxSD7MulgBWoJVnQSBx1JxoXRgs5bbKM722_rcI/edit?usp=sharing Intro stuff + first 6 charms for Orgiastic Fugitive Style sorted. Still 3 left (Got to work out what to do with some of them) but how do these seem?

Things still to do:

-Two Fisted Merrymaker (2e version let you flurry as many actions as you had drugs in your system. Lets not do that).
-Unhealthy Miasma Stance (Likely going to make this an aura of that intoxicant poison, upgrade of the form).
-One more (2e one had only 8 charms, 3e martial arts have at least 9 now)

[fierce star]

hmm. two fisted merrymaker should probably stil lbe a flurry enhancer. Maybe let you flurry an attack and a distract or disarm gambit together at no penalty?

[tulip folio]

Could do a flurry thing, yeah. The style is mostly defensive but I suppose all defensive would be a bit boring. XD

[upper stratus]

all the notably defense oriented styles still have attack

sometimes the defense is becomes attack! i love that shit

[velvet raft]

Yeah, there’s at least one in Solar dodge

[tulip folio]

nods
If it turns up a few places, I guess it's not as bad to grab than 'it's a dragonblooded specific trick'

[velvet raft]

Solar dodge is surprisingly cool and has a decent amount of “I dodged you, get fucked”

[tulip folio]

Yeah, I tried to give ont to Orgiastic Fugitive. The 2e version did a similar thing but with less control/it wasn't actually very good.

I Wasn't There Understanding
Cost: 3m, 2i; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Terrestrial
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Orgiastic Fugitive Style
The martial artists' assailants, clear-headed and willing to let her walk into their blows, somehow miss her. Once they do, the weight and expectation they put behind the attack carries them forward and beyond her. 

Upon a successful Dodge, the Martial Artist may invoke this Charm, sending her foe stumbling. She may force her attacker to move a single range band, even if her attacker has already used her movement for this round. She may only move the attacker ways in which they could naturally move, so while a flier could be sent tumbling into the sky, someone limited to grounded movement could not unless he's made to wander off a cliff.

Terrestrial: This does not count as the attacker's movement for this round.

[velvet raft]

Dodge is in an interesting spot, design-wise, since in lots of scenarios it is just Melee or Brawl but worse

So I feel like you sorta have to overtune dodge charms a bit?

[tulip folio]

Makes sense. As it's not pulling Double Duty

Like melee does with 'But what if I Hit Him too?'

Does I Wasn't There Understaning seem okay?

[upper stratus]

so wrt the 'wander off a cliff' part specifically

core book is very floaty about guidelines for attempting to arrest/mitigate a drop but i reckon for a charm it's a good idea to lay out some solid and defined difficulties

[tulip folio]

I suppose? The intent was to sorta make it clear you can make them move into Dangerous Places.

[upper stratus]

i know and i think that's cool

i just mean that if they're guided into a fall having an actual solid rule for the above instead of a big shrug is like. good

[tulip folio]

nods

[upper stratus]

walking into environment hazards by contrast has way more solid rules on the rolls made to resist it

[tulip folio]

Does the charm otherwise look good/interesting?

[upper stratus]

yea i dig it

[prisma sun]

yurr

[upper stratus]

actually is it the intent that this works against like. archery and thrown.

[tulip folio]

The intent was it works against everything, yeah. Melee only felt a bit limited (And the martial art wants people close, so being able to draw people in is useful)

Orgiastic Fugitive Form
Cost: 8m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 1
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: Clarity of Mind Moment, Saturnalia Memoriam
The martial artist knows there is no way that her opponents can abuse her body more than it has already been abused with the ravages of drink and fun. Swaying and bobbing, her unpredictable movements and intoxicating aura provide the following benefits:

-She suffers no Penalty to Defence or Actions from Poison or being Prone.
-She adds +Socialize to her Soak.
-Hostile characters within Short Range do not treat time within that area towards the Duration of toxins, though they continue to suffer harm at Intervals as normal.

The form gives her a 'if you're close to me, you don't clear poison over time' aura.

[upper stratus]

poggers okay. just making sure

[tulip folio]

The general mechanical plan for the style is 'drain their resources with poisons and dodges, as you're not really a deadly style by default'

[velvet raft]

This also protects the effects of the charm from excessive fiat, I think

[bleak hazel]

the fact that 3e keeps writing "inflict fall damage" charms without actually clarifying the mitigation mechanisms is one of the bits of vibes-based rulemaking that has stuck around since core, yeah

most of the rest has been cleared out

I am pretty sure Heaven Thunder Hammer is meant to just Do That stunts or no stunts because Solar Brawl is just the word DAMAGE scrawled over and over again on a wall, but the lunar charm that lets you launch people into the air is less obvious

[velvet raft]

I can't remember, does Solar Brawl have an air juggle that extends out of Heaven Thunder Hammer?

[bleak hazel]

Lightning Strikes Twice, essence 3, but in practice you want to use that with Crashing Wave Throw instead because it cancels the impact damage from HTH to get another attack in instead

and the Crashing Wave Throw version might as well read "if you land a grapple and have 1m 1wp left, kill your opponent instantly"

(this is not terribly unusual for specced-out grapple builds, Lunar Tyrant Lizards do the same thing)

[tulip folio]

You know, I'm starting to think 'dies from falling off a wall' might be counter to Exalted's general vibes. XD

[next delta]

lol yeah. Even if it didn't kill someone it might effectively take them out of the combat for awhile if they don't have the right movement charms lol

Probably should have a "you can't actually push an important character off a cliff if they don't want to but it gives them significant penalties" rule

(or just scale it less)

[spring lynx]

"only if it would kill (you accept that it will almost certainly not kill now)"

[tulip folio]

Clearly this is why the corebook gave an enemy rebel who can't be killed by throwing him a long way.

He's got the anti-solar tech of 'Whoops, went off a cliff, guess he's still alive'

[bleak hazel]

OK, MMA Sid elder is looking pretty good with the sole exception of trying to find a good 1 mote onslaught negator

Sid Melee has one but that requires me to wedge the form into his silly Prismatic setup

Soulfire Form, Crane style to the Form, Single Point to the Form, one move from Water Dragon and Black Claw up to Doe Eyes Defence to negate big attacks

two init tracks that make attacks, flurry full defence with attack every round for resting Def 14 with stunt, full excellency withering counterattack on anyone who goes into him

Single Point allows me to wear medium artifact and fight with dual slashing swords for decent overwhelming

[tulip folio]

Hmmm...working out a mechanically interesting flurry charm for this style is tricky but I'll figure it out.

[next delta]

That character is pretty funny

[prisma sun]

Drifts in Gossamer will find a way

[bleak hazel]

specifically, he's immune to dying in any way that you can't totally verify

so chucking him off a cliff and following him down with Charcoal March of Spiders so you see him hit the ground and go splat works

but it doesn't work if you throw him from the precipice into the forest canopy and go "well, that was easy, I'm off for lunch", he just Jason Bournes it

[prisma sun]

https://tenor.com/view/road-runner-coyote-gif-26728543

This is how Drifts wins

[bleak hazel]

wondering if I can have my Crane Stylist fight with two war fans or two hook-swords rather than specifically one fan and one sword

I would assume yes, but natural language strikes again

[mighty rover]

i'm seeing some references to DB exorcists. This appeals to me. What's the deal with that?

[dense verge]

the Immaculate Order, the state religion of the Realm, the largest empire, has numerous monks around with what to do religious duties. Some of these duties involve shoving ghosts back out of the land of the living, and debating/beating up gods which overstep their agreed-upon prayer schedule or venture into various forms of extortion of mortals

[mighty rover]

ooooh
very nice

[prisma sun]

It is part of the Immaculate faith that is essentially just an objectively good thing they do

[limpid badge]

i love making abyssals

[next delta]

I like how only the limit track gets color

[limpid badge]

did you know they'll just GIVE you the sword that kills the world.

[mighty rover]

they'll do this in real life too if ur heart is pure

[velvet raft]

Or the hammer!

[limpid badge]

jokes on you the sheath of this thing is pure primordial bone. i am going to have her bludgeon people to death with it.

[velvet raft]

is that the joke being on me that just sounds like I was right

[limpid badge]

the joke being that the sword is also a hammer

because hitting.

[velvet raft]

Also high five for Dawn/Dusk obsession

[dense verge]

if you ask very nicely your gm has to agree

[limpid badge]

this is true (thank u bees)

[wise ocean]

you just have to go to the swordmart and ask for the secret menu

[velvet raft]

My favorite 5-dot artifact is still Stormcaller

[dense verge]

circle is looking like abyssal, solar, sid, and two alchemicals so far

[velvet raft]

Incidentally, another sword where you can bonk people using the sheath

Desperately want to play a Stormcaller Solar whose cult is actually a cult of the sword

[prisma sun]

I wanna play my Stormcaller Fire Deeb

Because Volcano Lightning

[velvet raft]

I had something like this in a short-lived heroic piracy game

Unfortunately the ST got overwhelmed by the system

Which, I mean, fair

[tulip folio]

...do you think it's weird for a martial art to have a callout for 'oh yeah, this also works with another martial art'?

[prisma sun]

Yeah I think so

[tulip folio]

In this case it's due to the style working with 'energy blasts' but that not really being a Keyworded Thing so there's some 'Oh yeah, this also counts'.

Mirror Flower Weapons: The primary weapons of this style are Simple charms that fire offensive blasts of essence, independent of any weapon (Such as Elemental Bolt, Unweaving Method or Essence Pulse Cannon). Practitioners also make use of the traditional weapons of magicians, allowing the usage of Staffs and Knives, as well as their artifact equivalents. Practitioners of Silver-Voiced Nightingale style have found that Kiai shouts from that style blend well with Mirror Flower Style’s charms.

[prisma sun]

Not FIrewands?

[wise ocean]

Stage magic trick: A Fucking Gun

[prisma sun]

https://tenor.com/view/bfh-deagle-deagle-secret-secret-reload-bfh-battlefield-hardline-gif-27094427

[bleak hazel]

just say Kiais are form weapons outright, don't leave holes for another case of Crane Style's "so does this work with two hook swords or two war fans, or just one of each" vagueness

[mighty rover]

the wheels are turning
slowly
DB exorcist who never actually learned the proper rites
instead they learned necromancy

[tulip folio]

Fair

[tulip folio]

Only Alchemicals may learn the magic of Gun.

[bleak hazel]

I have been tempted by War/Necromancy deeb

it's no Hundred Shade Breath but it's a lot of skellingtons

[next delta]

I think you also have to say that the style's charms work with the relevant non-martial-Arts charms (since they don't in general)? I also don't know if magicians that use staves are standard in Exalted 🤔

[bleak hazel]

I believe that's just fluff text

[next delta]

That doesn't change my feedback

[tulip folio]

I mean, we have exactly one Sorcery Artifact Weapon and it's a staff 😛

[bleak hazel]

I think there's a couple

there's a big battleaxe made of soulsteel

[tulip folio]

And I mean...staffs are the iconic 'this is a mage' weapon, I'm not changing that in the style.

[bleak hazel]

the basic feedback of "just say the form weapons are X, Y and Z in a clear list, then add fluff" stands, though

[tulip folio]

Like to be frank: I don't really care if exalted has 'wizards don't have to use staffs' because...well, by that logic there wouldn't be a form weapon for this because wizards can use literally anything weapon-wise. Form weapons for most styles are all about vibes. XD

Making the text cleaner would be good though, yeah.

Mirror Flower Weapons: The primary weapons of this style are Simple charms that fire offensive blasts of essence, independent of any weapon (Such as Elemental Bolt, Unweaving Method or Essence Pulse Cannon), Kiais, Knives and Staffs.

Simpler, cleaner version

...sorry, that was a bit mean. To be a bit more clear: I'm not sure that there is any particular weapon that's more common for sorcerers to have in exalted but the martial art is about the vibe of being a blasty mage more than 'does the average sorcerer carry a staff'.

[next delta]

Just personify the disease so you can beat it up:

[prisma sun]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-run-meme-vegeta-bald-vegeta-cancer-pugpedro-gif-16844432362025172085

[tulip folio]

Pondering a charm and if it's too minor/situational for this martial art, especially on a capstone.

Basicly: Letting you flurry social actions with no penalty as long as they're based on intoxicants or hedonism.

So you can go 'Hey, have a drink' even as you're fighting them.

Two Fisted Merrymaker
Cost: 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: One turn
Prerequisite Charms: Drunken Monk Loses His Sash
Some enjoy their pleasures one at a time, savouring a drink or carefully feeling the highs of a drug. A true master of Orgiastic Fugitive Style needs no such moderation. They can flirt, drink, dance and fight all at once.

The marital artist flurries a social influence action with an Attack or Aim action, ignoring all penalties from flurrying.

My worry is that this is a bit 'eh' when Silver Voiced Nightingale gets 'can flurry social with attacks for no penalty' as the first charm, even if that can only do it with Kiais. XD

[upper stratus]

there's charms in most exalt's presence tree that lets them social influence reflexively on their turn too, this thing is pretty well covered

[tulip folio]

Yeah...dammit. This is proving tricky to work out, as the 2e one was a 'flurry a lot' charm.

[fierce star]

so this might be a little busted, but I can' thtink of a charm that allows it off the top of my head, but

what about a capstone that's a triple flurry, but one must be social influence, one must be attack or aim, and one must b ea disarm or distract gambit?

[tulip folio]

Cost: 4m, 1wp
Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3
Type: Extra Action
Keywords: Combo-Basic
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Drunken Monk Loses His Sash
Some partygoers are so very enthusiastic. Each and every vice seems attractive and pleasing, and it is all they can do to focus on enjoying one at a time. Others train themselves to surpass that necessity, chewing hashish while sipping a single malt and inhaling the ambient smoke that leaks from the hookahs. The reveling community values the skill to savor each delight separately when taken together.

Activating this Charm gives the martial artist the ability to enjoy his combat the same way he enjoys his other vices—all at once. He may attempt a flurry of as many actions as he has points of internal penalty. The first suffers only a -1 penalty, the next -2, and so on. He does not suffer any penalties from overindulgence on these actions, which must either be attacks or attempts to indulge further in available vices.

The 2e version was basicly 'Flurry one action for every drug you are on'.

But well, exalts also have 'flurry a lot of attack' charms/they're very powerful and I'm kinda worried about making the capstone just like 'punch someone several times'. XD

[fierce star]

That's why I was suggesting an efficient triple-flurry but it's three different actions

limited enough that it wouldn't be busted but strong enough to be capstone worthy I feel like?

that or take a gazellecarp page and have the martial artist turn into Shōjō from malifaux

[tulip folio]

Spoilers: That's my plans for the style's other capstone. XD

[fierce star]

lmao

hey same braincell

[tulip folio]

Unhealthy Miasma Stance is basicly going to be 'You become a living embodiment of excess. Get some Defensive Bonuses and a Drug Aura'

...what's the sorcery where you turn into a liquid?

[fierce star]

there's sculpted seafoam eidolon from what fire has wrought, though it's not turning you into liquid yourself, hrm

lemme check lunars, mgiht be in there

[tulip folio]

I know one of the effects I want for it:

Characters in Short Range of the martial artist treat all intimacies based on self control, discipline or asceticism as one degree lower.

[fierce star]

nice

[tulip folio]

Found it!

Molten Shape of Shifting Glass, from Sidereals

[upper stratus]

there's a sid E5 capstone that lets you triple flurru

[fierce star]

IIRC it's a lot freer than 'three specific actiosn' though right?

[tulip folio]

Unhealthy Miasma Stance
Cost: -(+5m, 1wp); Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Dual
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Two-Fisted Merrymaker, Drunken Monk Finds His Sandal
For all practitioners, there is a final revelation: Pleasure is life and life is for pleasure. Those who seek asceticism are to be pitied as those who merely exist. Drawing deep within and spilling her joyous essence outwards, the martial artist dissolves into a being of pure uninhibited bliss.

The martial artist may pay a five-mote, one-Willpower surcharge when she uses Orgiastic Fugitive Form to gain the following additional benefits:

• Characters in Short Range of the martial artist treat all intimacies based on self control, discipline or asceticism as one degree lower.
• She can flow through any opening that isn’t watertight and is immune to falling damage.
• Grapple gambits against her suffer a −4 penalty on the attack and control rolls. They fail automatically unless enhanced by magic.
• An enemy who hits her with an unarmed attack or spends a round grappling her is immediately exposed to an essence-enhanced version of the martial artist's intoxicant of choice. It has Damage 3i/round (Causing Willpower loss in Crash), Duration 5 rounds, and a −2 penalty.

How's this seem for a big E3 upgrade to the form?

Where you basicly turn into a Booze Elemental 😛

[fierce star]

I like it!

[tulip folio]

It does a lot but stuff like 'can flow through any opening that isn't watertight' isn't really a game changer. The big stuff most of the time is the and 'Hey, poison time if you touch me or I grab you'.

...okay,I suppose in Fully Optimal Solar fights, being immune to falling damage is likely the big thing but if the game is All Thunder Hammers all the time that's likely a problem. XD

[fierce star]

"Good old heaven thunder hammer. Nothin' beats that!" except like, not a joke about bart's lack of intelligence

[upper stratus]

can't access my books rn but off the top of my head it's flurry up to 3 actions of which at least 3 must be physical-based

it's the athletics capstone

[fierce star]

i'll check rq to take a break from anatomy

but it's one part of a day-long charm

So I feel like a charm that just does tripleflurry on one action is probably fine, not too toe-steppy?

[tulip folio]

What's the name of the charm?

[fierce star]

Invisible Motion

it's the prayer strip charm for athletics

[velvet raft]

What about circumventing the need for social attacks and literally tossing alcohol down their throats

[tulip folio]

That's actually one of the early charms!

[velvet raft]

Makes sense

[tulip folio]

Saturnalia Memoriam
Cost: 4m; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Decisive-only
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
Having attended a pleasant party, there is joy in that memory, and there is strength in joy. Anyone who has tried to take a doll from a child or a bottle from an alley wino can attest to that. In the right mindset, a stiff drink or a good drug can bring those memories vividly to mind.

If the stylist deals decisive damage with an attack, her enemy is exposed to an essence-enhanced version of the martial artist's intoxicant of choice. It has Damage 3i/round (Causing Willpower loss in Crash), Duration 5 rounds, and a −2 penalty.

The stylist can also use this charm to deliver the intoxicant directly with a difficulty 3 Gambit, instead of attempting to do it alongside damage. For many martial artists, this involves tossing a bottle of their favourite drink directly into the opponent's face.

Which lets you either add poison to an existing attack or do a gambit to deliver the poison without doing harm along the way.

Not 100% sure on the second part but I wanted something a little bit more repeatable than 'Init resets on big punch' would do.

[tulip folio]

Two Fisted Merrymaker
Cost: 3m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: One turn
Prerequisite Charms: Drunken Monk Loses His Sash
Some enjoy their pleasures one at a time, savouring a drink or carefully feeling the highs of a drug. A true master of Orgiastic Fugitive Style needs no such moderation. They can flirt, drink, dance and fight all at once.

The marital artist flurries three actions, ignoring all penalties from flurrying. She cannot flurry the same action more than once or more than one non-Gambit Attack. She can flurry multiple Gambits as long as they are all different Gambits and does not reduce her initiative as a result of the Gambits until all Gambits made this way are resolved.

[fierce star]

ooh, nice

[tulip folio]

...likely needs a 1 wp as it is still a flurry that can do 3 decisive attacks (As long as two of them are gambits) even if it's the weakest of such.

[velvet raft]

Okay wait @tulip folio , thought, what about a drinking contest charm?

[tulip folio]

hmm?

[velvet raft]

Like, something where you get benefits for matching your opponent's state of intoxication, maybe?

[tulip folio]

Could be fun. This style is missing 1 more charm (It's on 8 right now).

...vague pondering - A charm that basicly rushes someone through intervals of a poison (To some sort of limit. Wouldn't want you stacking like 50 intervals and triggering all at once).

So if you've got 3 turns left of poison, it will have all 3 happen at once and then decrement the duration by those remaining turns.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hz0AYxSD7MulgBWoJVnQSBx1JxoXRgs5bbKM722_rcI/edit?usp=sharing Okay, so still working out that last charm, as there's only 8 in the 2e version (I do find the drinking contest charm idea interesting) but how does this seem so far with the existing ones?

It's designed to be a Dodgy Defensive Style that Grinds Enemies Down.

[upper stratus]

i think there's a snake style charm that does this with the snake style poison

btw when i make these comparisons like with the sids flurry i don't mean "don't do that it's stealing!!" but to give you a point of comparison in similar charms

[tulip folio]

Ah, yeah, it's the mastery of essence venom

That's why I didn't spot it earlier.

This is what I was being inspired by, from Malifaux. XD

...actually...I have a very fun idea for another one that plays into the 'this poison drains willpower if you're crashed'.

Give them a variant of Automaton Override Array that works on people poisoned with their in-style drugs instead of automatons.

Fermented Soul Speech
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: Psyche, Terrestrial, Mastery
Duration: (1 + extra successes) turns
Prerequisites: Two-Fisted Merrymaker, Drunken Monk Finds His Sandal
One may say that misery loves company but so does the joyous, the master of Orgiastic Fugitive Style drawing his foes into messy actions that lurk beneath the surface, intrusive and blocked by self-control.

The Martial Artist makes a difficulty 3 gambit to apply a powerful suggestion to of a Poisoned character within medium range, rolling (Wits + Socialize) against their Resolve. If she succeeds, she takes control of them for their next (1 + extra successes) turns.

On each of the target's turns, the Martial Artist may force him to take an action of her choice, ignoring the penalty for Poisons, although she can’t force him to use magic. If he wishes to take another action on his turn, he must flurry. He can flurry actions that would normally be incompatible, like two attacks, and compelled actions never count as his attack or movement action for the round. If a compelled action would violate one of the target's Major or Defining Intimacies, he may spend one Willpower to refuse.

The Martial Artist must take a miscellaneous action on each of her turns to maintain this control. If she doesn’t do so, he acts freely on his next turn, though this Charm doesn’t end.

Terrestrial: The target does not ignore the penalty for poison and the target's actions are messy enough to be clearly the actions of someone not in control of themselves, though most would assume it is simply intoxication.

Mastery: The Martial Artist displays no obvious signs of affecting the target and a target who spends willpower to ignore the action will not be able to tell the suggestion apart from mere intrusive thoughts.

[bleak hazel]

is this not a significant upgrade on God Ways

mostly because it's extremely cheap, but also it's an easier gambit and non-obvious for anyone who could use God Ways

or is it intended to be "you make your enemy swing once, and then they get their whole turn to actually beat on you"

[tulip folio]

They still can take their turn (As long as they flurry the action), yeah.

You dictate one action, they still get to act otherwise

So you can tell them 'lie down' and they'll lie down, then still attempt to stab you

[bleak hazel]

is there a reason the cost is so low?

[tulip folio]

Mostly because it's based on an existing charm.

And Automaton Overide Array is itself 1m 1wp. XD

So I wasn't yet sure on exact price.

Also: A big thing - God ways lets you spend essence.

This expressly says it can't force them to use magic

So you can make them attack but you can't make them Heaven Thunder Hammer that attack

[bleak hazel]

ah

I think I would charge a bit more because most dangerous things trying to punch you in the face aren't machine spirits

even in autocthonia

[tulip folio]

Fair, I'll up the mote cost

[bleak hazel]

I suppose there's a metaphysical question of "how gremlined does a machine spirit have to be before you can't use Automaton Override on it"

"by some miracle, the point at which AOA stops working is exactly the same point that the target starts counting as poisoned, so we can use this other technique"

[tulip folio]

Heh. But yeah, it lets you be a Real Jackass (And since the poison drains WP on people who are crashed, their ability to resist the suggestions drops the less well they're handling the poison). XD

[bleak hazel]

OK, I like this now

I assumed it was God Ways style Bad Touch at first glance since it's a little arcane

but it would theoretically be possible to Not Lose after eating that

whereas God Ways is "I order you to run in circles with a full excellency until you're out of juice, this will make things much easier"

[tulip folio]

Yeah, I wanted to keep the 'no forcing them to spend motes' from override

As going 'I MAKE YOU DO THAT 15 MOTE CHARM AT A WALL' is kinda a Dick Move.

Well, a dick move beyond the level of dick move this is intended to be

[fierce star]

Meanwhile, I keep coming up with stupid character ideas

[bleak hazel]

if and when I manage to God Ways someone I'm tempted to make them dance

which conveniently is a performance action I can make them full excellency

and unlikely to be resisted by most demons

[fierce star]

In this case: A Godblooded of Asna Firstborn who was supposed to Exalt as a sidereal... but a vacation down to Creation with her mortal parent went sideways and she ended up attracting Luna's attention before her Sidereal exaltation hit.

[tulip folio]

Seems legit. Would cause Much Paperwork

[bleak hazel]

I don't think that's how it works

I am pretty sure Sid Exaltation is locked in and that stops you getting another one, because otherwise there wouldn't be all of these Dynast kid sids

they'd have gone dragon years before

[tulip folio]

I don't think people who are Fated To Exalt A Sids are locked out of other exaltations. If you Die Early, I think the Deathlords are allowed to do 'hey kid, wanna be an abyssal?'

[bleak hazel]

it does say "capital-C Chosen at Birth"

they have it already, the powers just don't manifest

[prisma sun]

The other Incarnae would have to purposefully yoink someone chosen by the Maidens

[fierce star]

I thought it was a case of 'they're fated for it, but it doens't hit until the time comes'

like the uh

[tulip folio]

To be fair: That does sound like Luna. Her chosen are not really on Good Terms with Heaven 😛

[fierce star]

there's a short in the sidereal book for a dying sidereal going to his next incarnation as he dies, so like

[bleak hazel]

is that really Luna's beef though?

she strikes me as Not Massively Bothered

[fierce star]

the spark was still active in someone else despite someone having been fated for it once it was avaliable?

also AFAIK Luna doesn't care, yeah, the LUnars do but Luna's mostly vaguely amused about the whole thing?

[tulip folio]

Sure but I also don't think she'd really be bothered about 'the maidens already picked someone', if she gets it in her head to exalt someone.

[fierce star]

if sidereal exaltations do attach at birst but don't manifest powers until the fated moments (TM) then there's a lot of time spent with them being 'inactive', relatively speaking

[bleak hazel]

I believe that is how it works, it's why Sid respawn times are quite important

I just don't think you get to go "yeah, Sol/Luna trumps Maidens" here, the maiden has made her choice already

[tulip folio]

We do also have a canonical journeys sid who managed to miss his own respawn time.

[bleak hazel]

3e fate is not actually trivially explodable by anyone with a mote pool

[fierce star]

This is the little excerpt that made me think the exaltation wasn't attached until the second breath

I guess it doesn't outright state the patient was the previous incarnation of the doctor

but that seem sto be teh implication?

[tulip folio]

...that does read like the exaltation went from one to the other.

[bleak hazel]

yeah, the spark is not in two places

but the designation has been made, which is why you get Suitably Flavoured Early Life

is touched by their Maiden in subtle ways. A Chosen 
of Journeys might be constantly uprooted — literally 
or metaphorically — throughout childhood, while a 
Chosen of Serenity’s life will involve powerful rela
tionships, moving interactions with art, or intense 
emotional choices. These brushes with fate are seldom 
clear except in retrospect```

I feel that is as firm a Dibs as can reasonably be established

(there's also a charm that Sids use to leave information and equipment for their successors, so they clearly know the identity of said successor)

[tulip folio]

...what happens to a Sid exaltation if the target of it dies before second breath?

[bleak hazel]

pick another, presumably

[fierce star]

Also my vague thought for the rope I'd give the GM was 'I as a player am interested in trying to broker peace between the fivescore fellowship and the silver pact, and the maidens and luna are both trickster archetypes in several ways and it would not be out of character for both of them to play their chosen like this'

[bleak hazel]

but I don't think they get to go Solar just because a baby sid did something cool

[fierce star]

so like, celestial collusion

I'm always more inclined to go 'okay, but why did this happen' instead of 'no, that can't happen' as a GM, so some of my character concepts end up weird like that

and I feel like this idea has merit?

sorry

[bleak hazel]

I dislike anything that looks like "yeah, I stack the celestial exaltations" in general, because, well, you already won one million-to-one lottery for unfathomable power that easily could have gone to umpteen other people, do you have to win two?

[tulip folio]

As the same time, I'm not sure there's anything that actively stops it. Like if you get dunked in the Fount of Glories, I'm not sure a Wannabe Sid is going to come out un-exalted as a Sovereign despite the wishes of the Maidens as the options there are 'Exalted' or 'Dead' for going into the Fount.

[bleak hazel]

I am pretty sure the result there is "dead, pick another" but I admit this is my own preference rather than any hard text

you are already Chosen, you cannot be Chosen twice even if one of them's on a time lag

[fierce star]

It's not like they're getting the powers of both (hell, pattern spider eclipse charms don't start until E2 anyway, so tehy'd start wtihout one there)

[tulip folio]

Malfeas: "You can't tell me what to do."
SWLIHN: "Yes they can, they won the war."
Malfeas: "SHUT UP, YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK UNCOOL IN FRONT OF THE SOON TO BE INFERNAL!"

[fierce star]

and i'd probably avoid read the weave

since AFAIK asna's college is 'all of them' and that's a little bit much

Do you feel like luna and the maidens would not perform some sort of celestial collusion in the face of the time of tumult to try to broker peace between their respective chosen in such a matter? Does it feel out of character for them to you?

[tulip folio]

Mars: "But Peace is boring and I have a divine bag of popcorn."

[bleak hazel]

I feel like the result there would be "pattern-spider-blooded becoming a Lunar" without actually going "yeah, this person was going to be a Sid and then got overwritten, something we have no precedent for and doesn't seem to do anything concrete here that the Pattern Blood isn't doing already"

[fierce star]

well my figuring there was that Asna probably wouldn't have a child with a mortal without, like... I dunno. The bait and switch feels important to the concept to me, letting them be immersed in both?

[bleak hazel]

there are mortals in heaven, plenty of them

some of them presumably work for the Bureau

[prisma sun]

The thing is that like

[bleak hazel]

you can have a Maidenly nudge in there easily enough

[prisma sun]

The maidens can just choose for you to Not Die

[bleak hazel]

also, to be honest, I have two different Sids already who are trying to broker detente with the silver pact and neither of them needed the direct metaphysical backing of two different Celestial Incarnae to get started

that feels like gilding the character concept lily a bit

[prisma sun]

They presumably are not going to pick someone who is just going to die beforehand

[fierce star]

sorry

I'll just trash it, then

[bleak hazel]

hell, we have a Lunar elder who was immersed in the world of Yu-Shan before [events of story], she's just First Age

[fierce star]

90% of all ideas are shit, so this isn't a surprise lol

[bleak hazel]

and a perfectly reasonable hook without the Double Chosen thing

[prisma sun]

You could just be a Sidreal from a Lunar Dominion or a Lunar from Yu Shan, I think that works perfectly fine for the purposes presented

[tulip folio]

I mean, fate in exalted is more 'nudging in the right direction'. I don't think even the Maidens can outright decree something is going to happen and none of the supernatural forces in exalted can deny it. Like a soon-to-be sid is much more likely to have survived Thorns but I also don't think 'going to be a sid' will save you from a supernatural plague or such.

Especially since both Battles and Endings are going to be Around Dangerous Things, with that 'it shows up a lot in their past'.

notes down 'serial killer who expressly targets people fated to become sids' as a plot hook for a Sidereal game

[bleak hazel]

it's a pretty hefty nudge, even for essence users

there's a reason all the Sid stuff works, even Solars or Third Circles can't just shrug off broad-spectrum causality warping with "I'm a hero, get out" rather than significant actual effort

(I have had this argument before with someone who was utterly convinced that Solars were immune to prophecies and Sidereal Martial Arts because of being inherently fate-warping)

I think most of the time your future Sids aren't going to die, and when they do then they'll designate another newborn kid

which does mean you still need to protect your future Sids where possible, to decrease the time-lag between losing someone and getting your replacement Man In Saffron

the dying-Sid-going-to-his-replacement flash fiction is the ideal outcome

[tulip folio]

Yeah, that's silly on their end. I wouldn't say 'immune' so much as 'Have the tools to make it more of a contest'. An Abyssal going 'I am going to kill everyone in that town' means you're now testing 'Killing Things As An Abyssal' vs 'Fate' and that becomes a contest when both tend to be 'I get what I want' when unopposed.

[bleak hazel]

yeah, that's pretty much explicitly how it works

I would probably rank "picked to be a Sid" as an incredibly localised max power sidereal prophecy, which will not stop an Abyssal in the same town cutting your head off because +1/-1 TN only goes so far

[prisma sun]

I think the main thing that the idea posits is that it does sorta skew the character to be, out of the box, one of the most important people of the most important people in the world, y'know?

[tulip folio]

2e Dev: "And yet, less important than any solar!" is shot into the sun

[prisma sun]

is shot into the sun which is actually a big space ship

[bleak hazel]

yeah, the Solaroid-exclusive death star with first age crafting station dispensing plot coupons

my favourite Solar out of the ones I've seen recently is a retired swordsaint who set up a dojo and keeps being dragged into conflicts because as it turns out a sufficiently advanced kung fu school is basically a small country anyway

[fierce star]

also I just kinda think it's funny that I considered this concept to be on the upper level of allowable mary sue for an exalted character, on tier with the other recent one Ih ad--the literal clone of the scarlet empress, but there wasn't nearly the reaction to that one that there was to this one.

[bleak hazel]

I honestly assumed that one was just one of many daughters of Emps

[prisma sun]

I didn't see that tbf

[bleak hazel]

she had a lot

five years between deeb kids, 750 year reign, half of them are girls = 75 Little Reds of varying ages, maybe half to two-thirds of which are dead

[fierce star]

Nah, I was riffing on the idea that a sufficiently powerful neomah can do outright clones instead of just combining two people, and thought it'd be funny if, after her disappearance, someone bribed the imperial nail trimmer

[tulip folio]

Look, to quote my character to the character you're talking about.

(1:13:29 PM) Glacier_Jade: To be fair, there's also a damn lot of people who just try to get a fleshwarper to make them look like Her Redness. Or it's a Lunar that went around licking objects she touched until they found a drop of blood. Serenity has an entire sub-division for 'Imitation Scarlet Empresses Bullshit'.

[dense verge]

oh yeah scarlet clone employed for throne schemes

[bleak hazel]

not counting all the body doubles she probably had for authorised throne schemes

[prisma sun]

I mean that's fine because that's not really bending the rules of the setting, tbh.

There's already several dark horse candidates for the throne anyhow

[bleak hazel]

basically if you see a redheaded girl, ask her where the Mantle of Brigid is, she probably knows

[dense verge]

always assume redheads are related to big red, please ask my endings sid this

[tulip folio]

Entreatingly, Glacier Jade there is the opposite of this. Someone who rejected an offer to serve death and exalted as an endings sid. The last survivor of a clan put to the sword by one of the Lover's deathknights who was basicly told 'Bow and you will receive this power'. Though it's very fuzzy/deliberately uncertain about if there was actually an exaltation on the line or just an attempt to break the last survivor of the clan's spirit.

[bleak hazel]

in the fine tradition of all of my sids warping into Endings because Endings has an insanely good stat spread, my Redsid was a doctor/priest before exalting and turning into a strange wandering mystic war-prophet

[fierce star]

It's just funny to me that 'a literal clone of the most important NPC in the setting' is less setting-breaking than 'celestial collusion between trickster-themed gods sets up drama, news at 11'

[tulip folio]

In Jade's case, she at least has the excuse of starting as a planned endings sid as there isn't really another sort that would match her vibe quite so well. XD

[bleak hazel]

one of those is messing with the rules on the Extremely Inviolable plot device tier supersoldier powers, one of those is "yeah that sounds like the kind of thing she'd do"

redsid is probably not getting into a game, because said game is full of newbies already, but I have prepared Mildly Crazy Mystic Sid anyway

if I wasn't about 80% sure it was Deebs Only I'd have given him the Sea of Mind merit

[fierce star]

I still feel like there is wriggle room, personally, but I'm standing almost alone on that

sorry, i should drop it

it's a bad idea that steps on too many things that are sid only forever

I will say, thoguh, when I presented the 'red clone' idea to other places about exalted they basically reacted exaclty like you are with the collusion lunar, misc

[bleak hazel]

"being familiar with heaven" and maybe even "being familiar with sids" is very much not Sid-only, that's a perfectly fine hook - see Feather Drenched

[fierce star]

'her redness is too smart and canny to allow such a thing to happen, there would never be unauthorized clones of her running around'

[bleak hazel]

her entire spy agency is either rogue or sitting around holding steadily decaying stations and waiting for further orders, so I think it's plausible

[dense verge]

i think just the only thing is that exaltations seem like a "one per soul" type deal, def possible to scheme a bridge in other ways

[bleak hazel]

sure, it's upper-bracket-specialness for a character concept but it's plausible

[tulip folio]

'Her redness is too smart'

Gestures to the state of the realm

Gesture to the mental state of her children

laughs forever

[fierce star]

so here's the quesiton, could sidereals be fooled about a potential sid's fate?

[prisma sun]

Probably only by another Sid

[bleak hazel]

with enough effort, yes, they don't find all of them before they exalt

[prisma sun]

or similar manipulator of Fate

[bleak hazel]

but you'd be talking "Black Mirror Shintai and a ton of effort" and there aren't many people capable of doing that who also know what sids are

[tulip folio]

There has 100% been a time the sids grabbed the Wrong Twin because they sent the Low Perception Sid.

[bleak hazel]

funnily enough there were no fate errors

he's just half blind

[tulip folio]

'You asked me to go get the blonde kid. I went there, found a blonde kid, grabbed them. Jobs a good one'

[bleak hazel]

other than a vague dislike of Double Chosen, I'm mostly against this on a party-dynamics level - part of what I like about Exalted is that you've won the lottery already, by dint of being an exalt you have right and precedent to change the world to the maximum possible degree and nobody can anoint you further than that

the three most influential Exalts of the last millenium are probably Kejak, Big Red and maybe Rakan, all of which were once basically normal members of their respective orders

[tulip folio]

Jade entertainingly only has 1 dot of backing for Destiny instead of the normal 2 for Sids. Since she spends a lot of her time helping the Bureau of Humanity/has actively backed them over Destiny a couple of times in minor political things. Like, nothing full on 'Someone ended up punched' but a few times when there's a divisional conflict she's not been 'loyal' to Destiny when it comes to which paperwork she signs.

[bleak hazel]

if you're told you're the chosen one who has to save the world, either you shrug and take it as the price of admission or a Sid is messing with the deck according to whatever scheme they've cooked up lately and you are allowed to go punch them in the face

[fierce star]

I mean party dynamics is a party to party issue. I'd only pitch this concept to a game where it would fit, and if the GM or other PCs had issue with it I'd figure something else out

if a GM pitched a game where it was starmetal-on-moonsilver spy vs spy action I'd pitch the concept, I wouldn't for 'you all meet in the hundred kingdoms to carve out a new dominion'.

[bleak hazel]

(this is also why Sword-Queen's Foretold Blade is one of my favourite Sid charms, you can just fake Chosen Ones and everyone kind of goes "yeah fair enough")

[tulip folio]

...I wonder if non-human non-spirit beings fall under Bureau of Humanity or Heaven.

Like what Bureau is in charge of stuff related to Jadeborn?

They're the Prototype for Humans, so I'd assume humanity would have some claim

But they're also well...not humans.

[fierce star]

I believe Dragon Kings are under nature? Or at least were in previous editions

[tulip folio]

But they're also not Spirits, so Heaven's claim is dubious

[wise ocean]

big red clone trans man character? send tweet

[prisma sun]

Whichever one can win the beurucratic kung fu battle to either take it for themselves because it's an extra political portfolio or foist it on someone else because they don't wanna deal with it

y'know

small aside

in the VtM circles I run in Thin-Bloods get called Teebs

which is funny considering Dragon-Blooded are called Deebs

why did the rpg community decide that was the shorthand

[tulip folio]

Nature would make sense. Which means possibly even Seasons because Seasons was a spinoff of Nature made up of all the Underappreciated Elementals and I'm sure whoever is in charge of maintaining data on Jadeborn feels really underappreciated.

Some immortal filing clerk: "Oh, all the books on this group of sapient people is filed under Weather: None because they live underground."

[bleak hazel]

as we all know, Exalted vs World of Darkness was created due to an incident with a dyslexic pattern spider

[tulip folio]

The Department of Celestial Concerns are just glowy Pinkertons, Sent Tweet.

[bleak hazel]

fun cause for a plot there, including that one Union Crocodile worker god

They remember they dealt with a mysterious person, and they also remember that there was something very (Maiden's Colour) about them. At least some essence theorists speculate that there are in fact only five Sidereal Exaltations, one for each Maiden, but they can be in lots of places at once.

[tulip folio]

Yeah. I keep wanting to tie sids into other Bureaus, as they've honestly got More Going On plot-wise than Destiny itself. XD

I don't want to go fight Knockoff Fate/Grand Order FakeSids, they're boring 😛

[bleak hazel]

I am warming to the Gets honestly, since it's cool to have your Sid engage in a sick as hell kung fu battle in the middle of a major city after a series of spy games that 99% of other exalts have no idea are happening

but that's with the proviso that Gets should be extremely disunited - a few of them are working for Rakan, a few of them end up fighting Sids on their own initiative, most of them are following their own isekai quests and a few have signed on as advisors for the Bureau after encountering other reality warpers who had their histories removed from the world by their Exaltation and could commiserate

that also provides Sids with the plot hook of "if we could get these guys on side reliably we could have so much more exaltpower"

If you aren't leaving a string of 'acceptable tactical losses' in your wake that keeps you drinking Celestial Wine every night so you can sleep you aren't playing a Sidereal right.

[wise ocean]

Come to think of it, could you do In Bruges entirely as a Get/Sid movie
(I'm not giving them a cool spy movie, they get the comedy spy movie)

[bleak hazel]

other quotes from sidgame

I believe one of the dev-proposed Get characters when they were first talked about was in fact a Bureau advisor

[tulip folio]

I do find the 'sacrafice my own desires for the good of others' interesting in Sid Integrity but I do kinda wish they had some more stuff that linked into 'Hey, I treat Hopeful Intimacies as more powerful' starting stuff, not just the 'and now I kill my own intimacy!'

[bleak hazel]

I must admit that "straight down the middle Sid campaign, recruit a Getimian or two and then go fight Rakan to end the War In Heaven" is actually quite appealing

of all the problems in Exalted, it's one of the most actually solvable, because gets on their own are not inherently inclined to tear down the Loom of Fate even if their powers make it go wonky

there is in fact one guy conscripting them for his revenge quest

[prisma sun]

Rakan is sort of like the Realm Divide for Sids

[tulip folio]

Yes but his Waifu was his Laifu and that's why Rakan needs to End Fate.

(I'm sorry Rakan, you're never going to be respected by me.)

[bleak hazel]

I think we're a bit too late in the timeline to have a Getimian spawn who was Rakan's ex-boyfriend, but it would be funny

(also, killing rakan gets you your 100th sid back, which is handy)

[prisma sun]

95-100th Sids back

[next delta]

Gets can definitely be reasoned with, yeah. Though you might have to help get them to the acceptance part of grief over their non-existent timeline

[bleak hazel]

honestly of all the people in existence, the Sids are probably best placed to do that

[next delta]

Do Sids have a charm for mind-fighting metaphorical inner demons?

[bleak hazel]

they already have to counsel all their new recruits all the time because of Arcane Fate

and no, that's an (incomprehensible) Solar move

it has no ruleset given, it's literally just a paragraph that says "do psychonauts stuff" and leaves the GM to write out the entire system

[next delta]

Oh. Arcane Fate is an interesting sympathy move they can use

I like it on concept. Maybe for essence I'd make it a mode of that Solar charm that lets you turn diseases into a literal demon you can fight

(though I feel like metaphysically it should turn diseases into a god and not a demon)

[dense verge]

rakan only works if you drop the bureau of divorce as his primary motivator, making it a last straw thing is fine

[next delta]

I think it's the last straw on the new lore?

[dense verge]

yeah

[bleak hazel]

I like the idea of removing that entirely and just going with "why should I be fated to die, I am going to break fate to end death" because that links his motivation in with the one cool thing he's actually done

which is Parry Saturn

[next delta]

I think the other problem is that destroying fate is basically world ending for Creation I think? At least, Rakan probably doesn't have the ability to create a replacement?

[tulip folio]

Things to do as a sid: Immediately die after beating Rakan because you boasted that you did a thing that even Saturn couldn't.

[bleak hazel]

yes, he's an insane Bond villain without a coherent plan, but that kind of plays to type here

[next delta]

That makes it an easier sell to turn Getimians

[dense verge]

i run him more as "Heaven has no right to dictate the lives of people in accordance with destiny, if Creation cannot function without this compromise of free will in service to the powerful, it does not deserve to exist"

[next delta]

"you know you won't have any world if you win right?"

[bleak hazel]

hello, Salina

[dense verge]

real jagganoth hours

[bleak hazel]

interesting to see you're a Sidereal now

[next delta]

Clearly Rakan should focus on getting Autocthon back because he can maybe change things

[tulip folio]

Shove Rakan into Autobot City, the place that currently doesn't have fate (Though it would link in if you connected there).

[prisma sun]

To be fair, the Gold Faction is also like

[next delta]

It has a fate equivalent

[prisma sun]

"Hey we should rewrite the entirety of Fate"

[tulip folio]

It's got it's own 'make reality function' stuff going on but not the loom of fate.

[dense verge]

"There must be a better way than manufacturing suffering and throwing it out on those deemed acceptable to sustain the world, and if the world must run on suffering then it should not Be."

[next delta]

I thought it was a similar mechanism?

[bleak hazel]

Autobot City has the Grand Design, the autocthon version of the Loom

[next delta]

Just ran by demons instead of Gods and sidereals

[dense verge]

Auto's got his own fate-equivalent so people in Auto can integrate into Creation easily if they ever go back

[bleak hazel]

I believe it's mentioned that Sids have this "local causality integration" function that glues them into the current ambient Fate equivalent

[next delta]

It's not just for laws of physics, but it does that too

[bleak hazel]

so their stuff doesn't stop working in Malfeas or the Underworld or Autoland

[tulip folio]

The Grand Design is a mechanistic order of causality but I don't think it's really designed for 'I am fated for X to happen' stuff on its own.

More a 'if I push this off the table, it will fall' thing.

[bleak hazel]

that's what Fate does

fate is Creation's causality, which is why keeping it straight is an actually important job

[next delta]

Hmm, my interpretation was that it was. As part of how it helps fight off his disease

[bleak hazel]

it's actually one of the least floaty and handwavy interpretations of fate that I've seen in fiction

[next delta]

Like Fate is both physics and the more normal definition in Exalted

[bleak hazel]

and he did take direct inspiration from the Loom, so I presume it works similarly

[dense verge]

Fate is physics, Destiny is planning outcomes to keep Fate running smoothly iirc

[bleak hazel]

yeah

acting in accordance with Destiny reinforces fate against all the weirdness

[tulip folio]

I don't think the Grand Design handles like 'X will meet Y and fall in love' Destiny stuff, as that doesn't seem like something Autocthon would super care about.

[bleak hazel]

that's part of Exalted Physics, though

there's a reason Venus is one of the five maidens, you need that 20%

this is also the justification for Sid stuff actually having weight - they're not throwing around vague predictions of whatever, they're general-purpose reality warpers

[next delta]

Though I like the idea of pattern spiders equivalents being incredibly bored in Authcthon. "Man, maybe I should just let this cup unfall itself just to feel something"

[bleak hazel]

Autobot's version of Fate is just Deleuze and Guattari, it's Machinic Desire

this would be a totally valid occult diagram in Autobotland

[tulip folio]

...it would be funny to see the seal of divinity opened and all these machine spirits start going 'Hey, we're trying to push updates to the github for fate'

As they do have authority over the Grand Design, which is now interlinked with the Loom of Fate.

[bleak hazel]

"my god we have so much more spiderpower now, this is great"

"why do they write in the Fate equivalent of C++, though?"

[next delta]

... Does this mean Autobot rewrote himself in Rust?

[tulip folio]

Angry Design Weaver: "A Sidereal told me I wasn't allowed to do my job, I'm gunna go complain to my local rep about this. He's got an essence cannon."

One Tier Movement 🤝 Don't Cross A Picket Line 🤝 Bureau of Seasons

[bleak hazel]

now that there's presumably a God of Essence Cannons, Tang has even more people gunning for his spot

[tulip folio]

...ironically, I think Rakan could likely get allies in Autobot city if he sold it the right way. Alchemicals, philosophically, are opposed to the idea of Exalts ruling over humans. So he if sold Destiny (The group, not the concept) as the Secret Rulers of Humanity, it would likely make Alchemicals really pissy.

Rakan: "Yeah, Sids don't get punished if just Fuck Up A Mortal's Fate with a Prophesy because you disliked them as individual mortals are not important enough to matter to them, unless it interferes with a big plan."
Angry Alchemical Noises

[bleak hazel]

well, some angry alchemical noises

[prisma sun]

Locust War But Slightly Worse

[bleak hazel]

some of them go "yeah fair enough" and carry on doing Lux stuff

[tulip folio]

Sidereals: "Please stop approving of us Lux, it fills us with shame."

[bleak hazel]

Locust War but really slow because they have to break into heaven and that's quite difficult

luckily the alchemical Garden of Basalt Flowers is good at hunting for the Calibration gate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmR9F12CVIM

[dense verge]

i like the suggestion of alchemicals getting into creation from autochthon in 3e is phrased not really as staging an invasion but heros going out to find some way to help mitigate the blight. not really locust war. locust lost tour group.

[tulip folio]

As long as it doesn't become 'Get a twilight to fix it' like 2e

[bleak hazel]

I've been taking psychic damage from silly Third Circle demons so woe, blando be upon ye

[tulip folio]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hz0AYxSD7MulgBWoJVnQSBx1JxoXRgs5bbKM722_rcI/edit?usp=sharing Okay, Orgiastic Fugitive Style is finished/updated to 3e! You know, minus people going 'that's OP, stop it'. XD

[upper stratus]

it says mirror flower weapons at the start

[tulip folio]

Whoops, copy-paste error.

Fixed!

[prisma sun]

Orgiastic not actually having the ability to cancel the penalties of being drunk feels weird to me

[tulip folio]

The form does it. It lets you ignore all penalties for poison.

Orgiastic Fugitive Form
Cost: 8m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 1
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: Clarity of Mind Moment, Saturnalia Memoriam
The martial artist knows there is no way that her opponents can abuse her body more than it has already been abused with the ravages of drink and fun. Swaying and bobbing, her unpredictable movements and intoxicating aura provide the following benefits:

-She suffers no Penalty to Defence or Actions from Poison or being Prone.
-She adds +Socialize to her Soak.
-Hostile characters within Short Range do not treat time within that area towards the Duration of toxins and cannot reduce the Duration of toxins below 1 Interval without magic, though they continue to suffer harm at Intervals as normal.

[prisma sun]

Oh there we go, my brain skipped posion and just saw the Prone bit

Yeah I like orgiastic then

The only criticism I have so far is that while mechanically the style weapons all seem fine, I think you lose some flavor vs published styles by not describing how the style actually attacks unarmed

Like they'll go "the martial artist uses long sweeping kicks mixed with tight guards and strikes" and stuff like that

[tulip folio]

Fair, I should likely include that.

[prisma sun]

I'll give a look at the other ones when I'm not dead and dying in an uber

[bleak hazel]

steadily coming to love Crane Style

not everything in here is god tier but a lot of it looks extremely useful for the kind of mote-efficient high-parry combat my Sids are going for, and the Form fits in great

just need a good 1 mote onslaught negator I can get working with it and possibly a way to get artifact fists at higher essence without popping that one Prismatic subform, although maybe I should do that by writing some really fancy 5 dot silken armour

[tulip folio]

Orgiastic Fugitive Weapons: Masters of this style fight with improvised weapons from hookahs or bottles of alcohol. Such weapons are generally treated as improvised clubs or maces, often with Thrown(Short), though a broken bottle would be treated as an Improvised Knife. When they fight Unarmed it is with flailing, seemingly uncoordinated movements that slam the target with their entire body or reel out of the way of enemy attacks like they are stumbling on a swaying ship.

[prisma sun]

👍

[velvet raft]

Quite late, but it's notable that this is pretty much the norm in wuxia

"Mercenary nation-states" are sort of what jiang hu is

So there's a lot of material to draw on for this sort of thing

[mighty rover]

i love this

[fierce star]

... if there isn't a DB larceny charm called 'burn before reading' that lets you infuse a written message with a verbal one that plays on burning hte material the written message is on it should exist

hmm. well. LArcenary or linguistics?

[next delta]

In Essence it could be under both

But mainline, Linguistics

[bleak escarp]

very funny to me that you're doing this considering the previews I've seen...

[tulip folio]

Why?

[bleak escarp]

From (as far as I know) public previews, we know that Orgiastic Fugitive Style ain't coming back; instead it's being split up into Seven Drunken Gods style and Devil-Pipe Style. I have read them, and they are great stuff.

[next delta]

Oh, that's all the more reason to do it oneself then?

[bleak escarp]

It's just funny to me to sort of rotate the prospect of all three of these styles in my mind.

[tulip folio]

It was also a requested one for me to do. XD

[bleak escarp]

Ah, fair!

[next delta]

Which books have the other two styles? Or is it secret?

[tulip folio]

I tried to sorta...Celestial It Up, I'll admit. As there isn't really a terrestrial/Celestial split any more so any style can do cool supernatural shit. XD

Where it's more about the concept of intoxication than just 'You're drunk'

See: Capstone turning you into a booze elemental. XD

[bleak escarp]

Yep! Devil-Pipe is about beating people up with oversized smoking pipes while speedballing narcotics, and involves stuff like exhaling a cloud of black smoke haped like a cackling skull, in order to fly around and ram into people on it.

[next delta]

I think it's neat how in Essence the Celestial/Terrestrial Martial art split is still acknowledged, but it results in different bonuses and not different power levels

(though maybe per-exalt-type modes would have made more sense as the general case)

[tulip folio]

They replaced the flying nimbus with the flying noxious.

[bleak escarp]

It's the upcoming Sidereal companion book.

(it also includes Flying Guillotine Style)

[next delta]

Oh, did that have a backer release recently?

[bleak escarp]

I don't know, but I hang around on discords with some of the devs.

[tulip folio]

Any clue on the general vibes on the drunk one? As that's the most likely to overlap.

[bleak escarp]

"In Wu-Jian, the Benevolent Sisterhood of Hellraisers uses Seven Drunken Gods to defend their many charitable fronts from rivals among the Thirteen Schools."

Has a very strong identity in a core loop of straightforward movement/defense/damage tools that transition into encouraging you to knock your opponent's teeth out by pratfalling on them while being too drunk to feel pain.

[tulip folio]

Okay sounds like a very different vibe.

As I made fugitive a toxin + defensive grindown/control style

[bleak hazel]

I'm really looking forward to Flying Guillotine Style because that film is a classic

I'm just hoping the sid companion book has some actual Sid-exclusive things in it in the absence of Sid charms

[tulip folio]

I wonder what would be another fun style to do

Hey @fierce star. What's your favourite anima martial art/impossible weapon?

[fierce star]

Hmmmm

Rex Frame and God Hand probably for martial arts, as far as impossible weapons, we already have LORD OF INFINITE SWORDS so I'd have to go with, hmm... probalby Sagittarius or Leo?

[tulip folio]

What was their deals again?

[fierce star]

Rex Frame is 'I am tough. Tougher. No, no, even tougher.' Gives bonuses to block and dodge, as well as (at arcane) a natural AT of 6 (including agianst energy) and a damage barrier of, uh. 200, lol. God Hand is is charging up an attack: the MA style, letting you sacrifice attacks on this turn to make a bigger, more accurate one next turn. As far as the impossible weapons, Sagittarius is 'throwing objects', so it's turning everything from actual shuriken to teacups and half a brick in a sock into deadly throwing weapons, and Leo is 'I have a gun, that is also a knife. Or a spear that is also a rifle. Or a mace that is also a cannon.'

(damage barrier 200 is high enough that no mundane attack can actuall.y hurt you. Even siege weapons don't penetrate that.)

[tulip folio]

Rex Frame could be fun.

Or God Hand

[tulip folio]

Rex Frame - Soak booster. Is a perfect soak against attacks not enhanced by magic.

[fierce star]

oooh

[tulip folio]

Actually...heheheh

@fierce star Rex Frame was always good against mooks. Give it anti-battlegroup tools.

[bleak hazel]

tyrant lizard chew toy

[fierce star]

oooh

[tulip folio]

Rex Frame Form:

-Double Stamina for soak. +Essence if the attack isn't enhanced by magic.
-hardness = 2× stamina. + Essence if the attack isn't enhanced by magic.
-can reflexivity make a Feat of Demolition if an object would stop your movement.
-1 automatic successes on attacks against battlegroups and feats of Demolition.

Immovable object + unstoppable force

[fierce star]

hell yeah!

[bleak hazel]

anti-battlegroup buffs are notably very easy to balance because players and bosses are very rarely battlegroups

unless they're E5 exalts going for three very particular charms

in which case they can cope with one little success, they have E5 combat builds

I like this one - I assume it's incompatible with armour

[tulip folio]

If you actively turn into a battlegroup against the anti battlegroup martial art, I think that one is on you. XD

[bleak hazel]

it would be cool

[tulip folio]

Yeah, no armour

[bleak hazel]

white reaper vs obsidian shards

nobody can stand anywhere

broken glass all over the shop

[tulip folio]

Rex Frame is pure 'Your sword breaks on my abs'.

No armour allowed

...counterattack disarm when you get hit as your muscles are so tough the other guy loses his sword bouncing off them. @fierce star

[fierce star]

:D

[bleak hazel]

because of the way decisives work there isn't actually an enemy you can just stand there and ignore with this form, but you can get pretty close against mortals

[fierce star]

upgrade to the perfect soak against nonmagical attacks that makes them break against you (destroying weapons or causing temporary crippling effects)

[bleak hazel]

"my abs have 17 soak, you have a total of four dice and a +9 damage sword, even if you roll 4 10s you're on minimum damage"

[fierce star]

catch a sword with yoru pecs and snap it in half

[bleak hazel]

(I assume you're a Lunar and have enhanced your abs with the Bamboo Stone)

[tulip folio]

Hey you could ALSO be an Alchemical

[fierce star]

My anima character that used Rex Frame also had sagittarius, which was fun. I deflected a cannon ball and rolled well enough for a counterattack, so I asked the GM if I coudl catch it and throw it back

I hit hte powder keg :D

[wise ocean]

I will never not blink owlishly at that word

[tulip folio]

Got it, the disarm charm is a full counter-attack vs ranged weapons as you bounce the shot

[fierce star]

... :D

[bleak hazel]

I think there's a Crane Style move you can tag there for rules formatting

Crane is really good as a grab bag of useful tech

it also has zoning

when you hit someone with a counterattack you can pay 3m to harmlessly punt them two range bands away, which is great in a multicombat

very cheap displace with a prone attached

[tulip folio]

...is there anything that would break if a martial art changed the size of your unarmed attacks?

Like to medium or heavy

[bleak hazel]

well, medium weapons are +1 non-charm parry, but plenty of martial arts use medium weapons

you just have to be careful about combinations there

[tulip folio]

nods

[bleak hazel]

because obviously unarmed goes with everything

[tulip folio]

Yeah

Pondering: A rush booster. If you use it to move into melee with a battlegroup you do some damage.

As you just barrel through the formation

Though do people really use the actual 'move places' actions over just the various 'automatically go a zone' tricks?

[bleak hazel]

most people don't actually have a ton of schmovement

and Rushes definitely see use because they're the only way to catch up when the enemy is moving away from you at the same speed you are

[tulip folio]

Fair. So rush booster would be useful.

[velvet raft]

Aye, rush is specifically the “keep pace” mechanic

And if you can't rush decently, that goddamn archery/thrown combatant with the athletics charms simply kills you

[prisma sun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atTm8vPfTqw

[bleak hazel]

some pretty good Strength Deeb activities there

[tulip folio]

...I might make one of the charms include 'unhorse' in the things it can buff

Very few martial arts do anything there

And as long as it's not JUST unhorse it shouldn't be too specific

Fits the 'absolute battering ram of a person' theming

Reflexive Counter-attack
Triggered when you are hit by an attack.
Against Melee Attacks: Disarm or Unhorse
Against ranged: a couple of dice of damage as you bounce the arrow back.

Seem too silly?

[fierce star]

I think it's fine!

[tulip folio]

I like the idea of being charged by a lancer and him being the one who falls off when he hits you.

...are battlegroups immune to gambits?

Like can you grapple an entire battlegroup?

[fierce star]

uhhh

well it doesn't say you can't

[next delta]

A final note: Characters cannot grapple any opponent where a grapple simply doesn’t make sense given the relative scales involved (so grapples would be inapplicable against an army of a hundred Realm legionnaires, or against the Mask of Winters’s corpse-fortress Juggernaut; likewise, a toddler can’t effectively grapple a grown man, nor could a grown man grapple an eight-ton tyrant lizard).
pg 201, core

I don't think they are necessarily immune to other gambits

[fierce star]

ah, it's in the grapple rules, not the battlegroup rules

I feel like Thousand-Arms Boddhisvatta The Full Moon Grapple LUnar can probably grapple a battlegroup

[next delta]

I am surprised there isn't a core solar charm that allows it

... huh, I am surprised there isn't a charm for it at all in Essence. I would have expected there to be a universal charm for grappling Legendary sized creatures too (solars get to do it though)

[tulip folio]

Okay would it be valid you think to prone a battlegroup by barreling through them?

[next delta]

Yeah, there are definitely ways to stunt knocking a battlegroup effectively prone or basically disarming them

[tulip folio]

Yeah pondering it as a sorta 'and if they're a battlegroup, fuck them up harder' charm extra

[bleak hazel]

While attempting to kludge together this silly Sid elder combat build I've noticed that hypothetical xp-no-object Sid martial artists tend to want to wear steel-toe boots everywhere so they can use Dead Spouse Defence while their hands are full of swords, which is really funny

You don't want artifact ones because you don't want to pay the attunement bill, so just get some really scuffed boots

(I'm sure unarmed kicks are a valid brawl attack but this is funnier and also provides a backup weapon)