Cthulhu kissers anonymous
#Arkham Horror: The Card Game
mortal hazel
wow, I was thinking of making this
exotic robin
but Arkham is a card game!
mortal hazel
but then I felt lazy
exotic robin
I must protest!
mortal hazel
like I'd need to figure out stuff to put into the pins
cards are played on tabletops
graceful bloom
there you go :P
exotic robin
okay I'll go make an Ashes thread then
exotic robin
okay so which weakness is the most annoying: Finn's or Sefina's
mortal hazel
non-serious answer is "yes"
serious answer is "finn's gets worse the more players there are and the better you play him"
"sefina's is always a flat kind of bad"
and Sefina's does have more counterplay if you go out of your way to negate it
exotic robin
...uh, also, do we have a policy for previews/leaks for the next expansion?
mortal hazel
Stars stops sucking if you can get it to the bottom of your deck in some way
(and then avoid shuffling your deck, which, uh... as someone with access to LCC3 does kinda hurt as a restriction)
graceful bloom
...uh, also, do we have a policy for previews/leaks for the next expansion?
as far as im concerned you and alex are welcome to set the policy for here
proven acorn
Arkham thread, woo
tough owl
Cthulhu kissers anonymous
but Jenny cthulhu hasn't actually shown up!
proven acorn
I wonder if they're saving him for some big thing later
graceful bloom
but Jenny cthulhu hasn't actually shown up!
thats why the kissers are still anonymous
mortal hazel
(also heyo Arkham is like, the one big reason I was positive on forums on PilotNet from the start, we can finally exist! live free in the wild! a person can post about Arkham and then thirty minutes later someone else can walk in and post about Arkham because they saw the post about Arkham and didn't have to scroll up through 300 Magic/Yu Gi Oh/Weiss/Ashes posts to find it)
glad bolt
quick, someone post the scarlet keys board
mortal hazel
...but it's under tabletop and not card games :P
where do you play card games
exotic robin
with the size of Edge of the Earth maps, probably the floor tbh
mortal hazel
if you think about it
a table is a floor on stilts
so a floor is a table without stilts
actually most floors are also on stilts
so if you think about it
we all live in drawers
mortal hazel
if you think about it
@glad bolt check my logic here
glad bolt
like honestly
the fact that gloomhaven is a board game and arkham isn't is like, the height of assigned-x-at-birth shenanigans. it's just that gloomhaven has tiled maps
and now... not even that!
you play on the book now!
mortal hazel
gloomhaven is an amazingly blurry example yeah
glad bolt
mortal hazel
and I do think it is more of a board game
glad bolt
wow look at this board game guys
we put little standees on a book
powerful
arkham? totally a card game
get outta here
mortal hazel
haha
mortal hazel
are you implying that gloomhaven is more accurately categorized as a CYOA book
proven acorn
haha
glad bolt
you took the words out of my mouth
proven acorn
considering some CYOA do also have randomness
glad bolt
hey
hey alex. hey @tough owl . remember og gloomhaven? the good old days? tiles? I mean alex doesn't even remember that she played on the digital client god i'm old
remember???
it's a BOOK now
we BOOK club
mortal hazel
hey alex. hey <@203733729577926656> . remember og gloomhaven? the good old days?...
andreas's dad was considering getting a group together to play Jaws of the Lion (which admittedly was the first place they used the book)
but it never happened
still
mortal hazel
there was, for a moment, a chance, that my then-still freshly Gloomhaven-hyperfocused brain would've wrecked face as the Hurler
tough owl
I think the cards in gloomhaven not being random*, while the cards in arkham are being shuffled from a deck are what separate the two in my mind
glad bolt
yeah I think the big thing is that arkham has proper deckbuilding
if it didn't the lines would blur hella hard
like is exceed a board game???
tough owl
hmmm
indigo cedar
like is exceed a board game???
yes
mortal hazel
Arkham is definitely a lot more board-gamey than most deckbuilders yeah
oh right wrt; forum titles this one probably should be renamed to "Arkham Horror" or "The Arkham Horror LCG" or somesuch
tough owl
oh right wrt; forum titles this one probably should be renamed to "Arkham Horror...
but how will we lure in the batman crowd
mortal hazel
(a card so bad I didn't even have it in my browser history and had to search for it)
proven acorn
love that they decided this needed to be level 1
mortal hazel
then they realized it was weak and needed an improvement so they printed... https://arkhamdb.com/bundles/cards/05323.png
uhh
i think they failed to understand what made Lure bad
proven acorn
wow, the improvement
tough owl
hey, parallel Ashcan can recur this forever, so that he can always have something nearby to guitar away
proven acorn
still slightly sad Parallel Ashcan doesn't synergize with the explosive option on Makeshift Trap
mortal hazel
he does, actually
He can send a hunter back into it after they move during the enemy phase but before they attack
proven acorn
well yeah, I meant the recursion for attached cards specifically
proven acorn
but yeah having easy enemy movement does also help a lot
mortal hazel
Wait, why is there no synergy?
proven acorn
it recurs to your hand before it can get discarded for the explosion
per FAQ
Q: If Parallel Ashcan Pete owns a copy of Makeshift Trap with Explosive Device, and he chooses to trigger his reaction ability when the card would be discarded, does the Explosive Device damage still happen? A: Parallel Ashcan Pete’s reaction ability triggers when an attached card “would be discarded,” which has a higher timing priority than “is discarded,” and replaces the discarding of that card. As such, Parallel Pete adding Makeshift Trap to his hand would make it so the Explosive Device upgrade does not trigger.
proven acorn
the Trap will still be pretty decent on him I think, but you don't get a repeatable Dynamite Blast unfortunately
mortal hazel
Think I've run into this (or seen people run into this) a couple times with Tommy
there the usual conflict is between "defeated" and "discarded"
But I think there's a couple of "would be":s and "is":s there too
tough owl
oh huh
mortal hazel
(yes, the investigator, not the player who likes him)
tough owl
wondering now if I ever fell for that
mortal hazel
don't thiiink so
proven acorn
there the usual conflict is between "defeated" and "discarded"
ah, you don't get the resources if something is discarded by an effect I assume?
tough owl
who likes to play Tommy
proven acorn
ah yeah that's tough
Tommy is also on my list of stuff I wanna play eventually
though I probably wanna do a deck to just upgrade the hell out of Becky, so a bit more jank
tough owl
with the custom mods, I want to try that as well
proven acorn
yeah Custom Modifications helps a lot
Custom Mod, Enchant Weapon, Custom Ammo, Reliable
Telescopic Sight if you really wanna commit to the bit
mortal hazel
Custom Mods alone does a tonne of the work tbh
One of the big valuable thing with customizable cards like that is how they put the effect of many different cards into a single slot
There's a 2xp upgrade on Custom Mods that basically means there's two copies of Reliable built into it
(And the base token-swapping effect itself is statistically an increase in damage if you have Quicksilver Bullets)
proven acorn
yeah Quicksilver and Extended Stock are pretty good upgrades
exotic robin
Notched Sight is extremely good for a 1XP upgrade
like, being able to shoot an enemy off your Seeker without engaging saves so many actions
mortal hazel
I think I've observed a few times that customizables trend towards being a lot of deck compression - putting the functionality of what was previously a lot of cards into a single one.
Not all of them fit that, but the Guardian ones all do
mortal hazel
And Notched Sight is like... a potential stand-in for Guard Dog (2), Taunt, Riot Whistle, that whole package of things
yeah
We don't get it too badly because we're usually doing 4p but I suspect the Axe is kinda way too good in 2p?
And as much as I love Inscription of the Hunt on the axe, there's definitely an argument to be made that it's way too good
mortal hazel
yeah, hm, I think it's okay purely as a weapon, but, uh... it's not just a weapon
It needs to be supplemented with stuff like Beat Cops, Guard Dogs, Enchant Weapon etc. to work well in a monster hunter, but of course, the thing is, those are all good cards you'd probably want anyway
hrmm, looking at it, admittedly, my whole "deck compression" thing mostly holds true for the Guardian customizables and also Alchemical Distillation (which isn't very good).
Guardians do tend to need it the most with the way the class is designed. Custom Mods and Hunter's Armor are probably a better design space than the Axe, at least.
Though, hmm
... well, there's like, this whole ecosystem at this point where Guardian assets (and attachable events) simply are incredibly good and often serve multiple functions, because they all need to be very good to be useful in a class with so little draw.
But Custom Mods potentially shrinks cards like Reliable, Blackjack, and an oversuccess damage boost into a single card you can slap onto Stick to the Plan and I'm not sure whether that's a healthy kind of incredibly good.
mortal hazel
yeah
It's really cute. I figured it was kinda bad at first, but there's a lot of little niches you can squeeze it into
Sometimes a deck simply needs more soak and you have a powerful enough economy to pay a premium for it (or, as in Tommy, soak is its own economy). Sometimes maybe you are Lily and you have many treachery weaknesses in your deck that can trigger Hexdrinker. Maybe you're a support investigator like Mary and the Protective Runes turn it into additional soak for the whole group alongside assets like Tetsuo, Girish or (rarely) Xavier.
exotic robin
I've been enjoying it on William a lot
mortal hazel
yeah, that definitely falls under the "can pay a premium" front, though here the premium is a Schoffner economy
exotic robin
it's pricy, but Schoffner's pays for a lot and kinda hard to argue with 4 
soak
mortal hazel
yeah
Protective Gear can fill a similar role, admittedly
but Hunter's Armor is just a tad more pure soak per XP point
exotic robin
debating if I spend the remaining 2 boxes on more beef or making it cheaper
like, 4/4 for 4r that I can pay for with discount coupons sure sounds kinda nice
mortal hazel
yeah
high kindle
I hope I have been teaching people the soak grindset
mortal hazel
yup
I do diverge from it sometimes, but when I do, it's with a lot of deliberation
(and it often doesn't work out anyway)
definitely feels like one of the big lessons from playing on higher difficulties. in Standard you're often fine without it until you're very suddenly not, but then it's easy to mentally blame the autofail, "that wouldn't usually happen" etc. (it definitely will and you should still bring soak on Standard)
but Hard tends to pepper you with damage and horror no matter what you do
More tests failed, more rude token effects
exotic robin
I hope I have been teaching people the soak grindset
not caring about eating hits from like 3 enemies has been incredibly funny
high kindle
yes
mortal hazel
I think my personal playstyle hews a bit more towards Tommy's style of soak/thorns than Yorick's (by which I mostly mean that I like guns more than I like fire extinguishers or chainsaws)
but yeah it's been cool seeing a proper Yorick in action
I've known that he's kinda the gold standard for reliability and reliability is kinda the single most important thing for a monster handler
But I haven't actually seen it before
high kindle
I still stand by leo
mortal hazel
yeah
high kindle
but yorick is imo a close number 2 for reliable
mortal hazel
those three tend to get mentioned in the same breath for good reason, yeah
high kindle
I think I have probably played leo more than any other investigator at this point
mortal hazel
yeah, and it always works out pretty well
I don't know why I don't feel particularly drawn to playing him, personally
maybe he just looks too old for me 
pale jacinth
Is there a good guide anywhere for getting started with Arkham? Because I suddenly have a lot of free time this week and have been curious about learning for like a year
mortal hazel
oh damn hm
high kindle
thats a good question, I have always just sat down and taught people
mortal hazel
yeah, that's generally the best way, just find a more experienced player who's willing to teach you and nudge you along in building your first deck and who makes their own deck that synergizes well with whatever you're doing
In the absence of that, it gets tricky
I've played with a lot of new people but I'm definitely not a very good teacher, so it's been awkward sometimes. Usually we've muddled through.
If you want video tutorials, I've found Quick Learner to be decent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtR2_CLbJ4U
(Or, at least, I think they're decent, they only started doing their thing like two years after I started playing and got really good at the game, so my perspective here is flawed)
hmm, I think his strategy guide playlist is good enough to pin, honestly, but that one isn't a "learn the game from start to finish", it's more "you know the basic rules, so here's some principles to keep in mind"
mortal hazel
Is there a good guide anywhere for getting started with Arkham? Because I sudden...
else, if you can find a couple other interested people and you're lucky, you could maybe ask Ashley if she's interested in doing a learning session? She's done a few before
indigo cedar
I'm a person but timezones be the thing they are
high kindle
I can say that imo path to carcosa is the best full campaign to start
mortal hazel
I think I'd agree with that, yeah
high kindle
but night of the zealot can be okay for giving base game mechanics a try
mortal hazel
The Gathering is pretty specifically a tutorial scenario, Midnight Masks is a pretty good example of a "standard" scenario, but overall playing through the three-scenario campaign that is Night of the Zealot isn't going to get you a full picture about what's fun with Arkham Horror
high kindle
yeah
mortal hazel
Carcosa's just kinda... well-balanced and fun. It has a plot, but it doesn't have the huge amounts of text found in some later campaigns. It has gimmicks, but they're usually fairly simple. It has a fairly wide variety of challenges.
high kindle
I also think the theming and flavour of it is very cool
mortal hazel
yeah
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/arkham-horror-the-card-game/ - official FFG page, you can find PDF copies of the game's rules, FAQ, learn-to-play, and campaign guides here for free.
https://arkhamdb.com/ - a site where you can look up cards and easily build and organize decks. Decks here are easy to import into the unofficial TTS mod, as well.
https://arkhamcards.com/ - a mobile app with similar function to the above (and has ArkhamDB integration), can also be used to manage campaigns. The website (not the app) also has a function that helps you run epic multiplayer games (i.e. with more than a single group of players, traditionally done at conventions with a small number of scenarios specifically designed for it).
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo0cLYCOX_vBZUshPwDTBhYpo9kYUtOke - a series of basic strategy guides. Useful for when you've learned the basics of how to play the game and build decks, it covers a lot of good deckbuilding and gameplay habits.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe0fNHJx4QhSJmqm9iBLG5I5j-P2MSIpM - a series of guides for how to store and protect your cards, chaos tokens etc., you're probably alright just watching the first two videos and the one on coin capsules
mortal hazel
<https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/arkham-horror-the-card-game/> - ...
just gonna go ahead and do that, mwah
mortal hazel
yup
the second full campaign released for Arkham Horror was Path to Carcosa
And it's kinda where the game really found its stride, I think
Both in terms of how campaigns are designed and in terms of the cardpool available to players
indigo cedar
oh that's a question: do the campaigns have the card pools tied to them?
like can you only use cards from the card pool from that campaign
mortal hazel
uh oh god, they used to, but there's a new release model where they split the two up
Oh no you can use all player cards from all releases in any campaign
(There's one extremely specific card you're not allowed to bring into Scarlet Keys, but that's the only exception)
hmm
There was a channel with good guides for specifically the like, "what boxes to purchase and what they contain" side of things
hrmm. looks like most of them are a bit outdated
high kindle
like can you only use cards from the card pool from that campaign
generally no as alex said but some campaigns (all?) have specific cards you can get as rewards only in that campaign usually tied to choices or mission outcomes or such
indigo cedar
makes sense
mortal hazel
oh yeah there's that - yeah, I think every campaign has at least a few of those?
high kindle
yeah they tend to be very powerful
mortal hazel
(Technically it's also possible to keep playing with an investigator through multiple campaigns, but generally this isn't done because you end up hugely overpowered - campaigns tend to be balanced with the assumption that you start with 0xp)
high kindle
though sometimes they are not quite what anyone wants
a common example without getting into spoilers is teaming up with someone often gives them as an ally card
mortal hazel
Which can be really great, though often a bit awkward, since the ally cards you already have in your deck can often be really good and something you plan your deck around, and at the start, you can generally only have one ally in play. (There's some permanent upgrades you can buy with XP that let you get an extra ally slot or two.)
exotic robin
my general advice for beginners is to never trust published decks on ArkhamDB - some of them are alright, but a lot of them are Bad (Just Bad), Bad (One Weird Trick) or Bad (Off-Meta Gimmick), and it's going to be hard to tell which is which
and like, Arkham is a PvE game with difficulty settings, so there's not much selection pressure like with a PvP deckbuilder
indigo cedar
Why would I trust arkham DB when I have access to the wealth of nerds I'd be playing with and the nerds in here
exotic robin
okay, you can trust my ArkhamDB decks, which are all very good and effective
mortal hazel
well, lots of people do immediately turn to netdecks for games like this
mortal hazel
less of a problem if you're playing exclusively physical with a small cardpool, or otherwise are limiting yourself to a small cardpool, but if you dive right in it can be kinda tough to build good decks
indigo cedar
I love to netdeck for competitive games but I figure for arkham half the fun would be in building/working on your deck with the table
mortal hazel
yeah
indigo cedar
working on synergies and covering holes
mortal hazel
The netdecks are just not as good and this is a co-op game where different decks, yeah, like you said
You can take a few different approaches, definitely, Aneta likes to make decks and then when someone starts a campaign she'll be like "ooo, I have this deck and that deck so I can fill in for these different roles"
Whereas I tend to make my deck like, a week ahead of a specific campaign starting, at most, tailoring it specifically to the group and the campaign in question
indigo cedar
I think I'd be in the latter boat
mortal hazel
(aneta's decks are definitely good, to be clear, they're solid and independent and not reliant on weird gimmicks or specific party comps)
exotic robin
yeah
indigo cedar
I build specific and adapted strategies, in most things
mortal hazel
(if there's any gap in deckbuilding skill between us it's a very small one)
(and more than negated by my love of somewhat unreliable gimmicks)
exotic robin
I generally want my decks to be able to just do their thing, pay for it and Not Die on their own, with I guess the one blind spot being that my cluer decks tend to assume there's gonna be someone to nuke any baddies that land on me
mortal hazel
(disclaimer: my unreliable gimmicks are still more reliable than the gimmicks you find in a lot of published netdecks)
indigo cedar
can't say the word right either
mortal hazel
haha
high kindle
I build specific and adapted strategies, in most things
thats a good approach
I usually fill roles in a party as much as I can
exotic robin
if anyone's running teaching games (hi @glad bolt ) I can volunteer to throw together some decks for new players
mortal hazel
I've maybe found a good, comprehensive bundle of decks for new players
Will have to give it a skim and evaluate it, though
indigo cedar
y'all are saints
mortal hazel
arkham horror is probably the one thing in life I've managed to remain passionate about and invested in the longest (that isn't a person) (though that is likely because it's something I share with those exact people)
about the one thing I won't do is run teaching games 'cause I burnt out pretty hard on teaching just the few people I did help teach
exotic robin
it's like my favorite game ever at this point, so I kinda wanna people to have a good time when they try to get into it
indigo cedar
making sense to me
exotic robin
a big problem we actually ran into is that like
a lot of the prebuilt starter decks suck
like, a lot
in ways that made it pretty unfun for at least one person
mortal hazel
yeah. it's the one area where Arkham Horror really falls flat, IMO
high kindle
going to sleep for reals but if anyone ever needs deck help feel free to drop me a line
glad bolt
if anyone's running teaching games (hi <@140921736588689408> ) I can volunteer t...
I can maybe do that, can you check the pins in card gaming? Alex made decks for me earlier I think
mortal hazel
i'm also currently investigating this playlist where each video has a link to an ArkhamDB deck. My preliminary opinion is that these seem like solid, relatively fool-proof copy-and-paste jobs for a player's first run through The Gathering. They're designed to work with low player counts, so many have at least some ability to both defend themselves and investigate. They are not built with a full cardpool. They're a decent starting point. If you're playing on TTS and/or with a full cardpool, you should consider tweaking these decks before starting a full campaign with them.
Warning: there are minor mechanical spoilers for campaigns scattered throughout these, so if that matters a lot to you, don't watch the full videos, just click on straight through to the decklists. These decks are also accompanied by short written guides. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXmf8-Jo8F-uljWTV8z3Wf0BJDxdYU7tL
some comments from elsewhere:
(ignore... ignore the carson comment. do not play carson in your first ever game. please)
They seem promising
Not fully optimized, none of them are built with a full cardpool, but they're a good starting point, and should at least be good for a run of The Gathering
(maybe the decks I pinned in card gaming are better but also there's only five of them whereas there's like fifty in the playlist)
indigo cedar
too late, I am now a carson main
glad bolt
Okay pin this playlist then
mortal hazel
i'm also currently investigating this playlist where each video has a link to an...
a'ight and edited the post slightly
(could've integrated it with the first pin but I feel like this is a bit distinct in nature from the other pinned resources)
pale jacinth
If anyone's willing to teach, I'd be very interested in a teaching game at some point over the next few days (probably not today, so I can at least skim some of these videos + rules)
Otherwise I'll wait until I'm less ill and poke some local people who I know have some experience
mortal hazel
the bar is kinda high if you think about it
very little else has survived six months, mwaha
indigo cedar
like 3 things in my life have survived twelve months
proven acorn
If anyone's willing to teach, I'd be very interested in a teaching game at some ...
I could try to run you through Gathering and maybe Midnight Masks if we can arrange a time at some point
though my grasp of the game is not the best yet either since I only just started myself 😛 , but should be good enough to get you into the basics at least
though IME the general resolution of the game is fairly smooth and not that hard to learn
it's mostly specific cases where things can get tricky sometimes
jagged fable
(Messaging to be kept in the forum; also I just finally managed to beat the first part of the starter box on a date the other night lmao)
mortal hazel
You can "stay" in the forum by opening up the little dots and clicking "follow post" as well, in case that's handy to know
proven acorn
the starter box is a bit odd
Gathering is actually a neat tutorial
Midnight Masks is a good scenario
and then Devourer is... something
jagged fable
I’ve just gotten wiped on Gathering every game prior because the end boss is a little rough and partially just learning what to have on deck
indigo cedar
someone was saying earlier the pre built decks are not good
proven acorn
I’ve just gotten wiped on Gathering every game prior because the end boss is a l...
you died to ||the Ghoul Priest||?
jagged fable
aye, every game except the last is me as the default librarian and someone else as the default fed getting wiped by him
mortal hazel
ouch
yeah, the prebuilt decks are pretty bad for this and only really work if you know exactly what you're doing, and maybe not even then
it makes me a bit mad how bad they are, honestly?
because new players won't realize how bad those decks are, how different it is to play a reasonably okay deck, and you can end up with some serious negative player experiences because of it
indigo cedar
I'm fed up with this
mortal hazel
This is the precon Roland deck, and while ~90% of cards in this game are genuinely good and I'm generally amazed with how consistent the devs are about making sure cards have uses, this deck manages to have a whole 9 cards I would never put in Roland and feel like they're actively hindering me by bogging down my draw, and 2 I'd almost never put in
Compare this to the Roland deck from the playlist above:
There's still some cards here I think I'd never actually put in Roland, but there's only five of them, and... well, when the guide is oriented towards standard play, with a very limited cardpool, potentially 2 player where Roland has to handle clues on his own, I can still see it (Milan and Deduction are oriented towards a dedicated cluer, which is usually not Roland's job, I'd much rather replace those with more combat cards)
proven acorn
Okay I had not seen these decklists before, that is genuinely baffling
mortal hazel
there is some context here in that there were only like... 117 player cards or smth in the core set, and five investigators, so they split up the cards between investigators in a really baffling way
Apparently dedicating half the cards to badly cover for weaknesses rather than emphasize the strengths of those investigators
proven acorn
Knife instead of just doubling up on the Machete and the .45?
But okay yeah I guess the second copies might be in the Skids deck
mortal hazel
Wendy and Skids split the two Overpowers in the old core set between their two starter decks
(for some reason they kept the precons the same in Revised Core despite having more than twice as many cards to work with)
proven acorn
I guess my experience is also heavily influenced by me only starting to play online with full card pool
I also feel my experience with NotZ is a bit non standard because we won all scenarios without too much issue
Which from what I've gathered now online is apparently often not the case 😛
mortal hazel
The Gathering isn't too hard as long as your decks aren't bad, Midnight Masks is middling, a lot easier if you have a lot of mobility tools, Devourer Below gets easy if you cleaned out Midnight Masks but can be a whole lot of horseshit otherwise
proven acorn
Yeah we cleared Midnight Masks with a round or two to spare
And I just finished the act in Devourer by throwing skills at it because I was playing Winni
It's just odd to me because I saw so many people online say you generally shouldn't expect to fully clean out Midnight Masks
glad bolt
indigo cedar
so true
proven acorn
haha
astral flower
oh hello
are we doing forums now
I thought we moved to discord to get away from those
anyway I play arkham horror
indigo cedar
I thought we moved to discord to get away from those
right?
astral flower
technically the original forum was just a kind of public space in the roman empire where people could stand there and say random stuff
indigo cedar
yes
astral flower
which i think predates everything internet related and is also a good descriptor of what I think discord channels are like
I am a little confused how this is different from a thread or channel though
indigo cedar
visibility mostly
lots of stuff was being pushed to threads or talked over in the busy channels
proven acorn
forums are more visible in that they exist, and more easily searchable
indigo cedar
this is more visible than a thread and more focussed than the channel
mortal hazel
It sounds minor, but it's been super successful, honestly
indigo cedar
hasn't changed anything for me but c'est la vie
mortal hazel
well, i'm a bit monofocused
It's resulted in more discussion about Arkham
That's good
Therefore forums have been very successful
indigo cedar
it's also more searchable, from a moderation perspective
tough owl
as in, searchable to find the forum topics?
still annoyed I can't search in specific threads
and it doesn't look like you can search through specific forum topics either
:(
indigo cedar
I mean searchable as in I can search a person's name and their posts in a forum will come up
stuff in threads didn't
tough owl
oh?
indigo cedar
unless you were in the thread
proven acorn
and it doesn't look like you can search through specific forum topics either
ah, I thought you could
that is definitely something I wish they would do
threads not being individually searchable is very annoying sometimes
indigo cedar
but yeah, moving things to forums seems to be working
and the channels for tabletop and video games still exist
it's just if you want more focussed discussion of a thing you can take it to a forum
exotic robin
I thought we moved to discord to get away from those
hey, internet forums were a good format
they're all just ancient and badly run
tough owl
unless you were in the thread
odd, I seem to be able to find posts from people in threads I'm not in/have left
mortal hazel
rpgnet is okay
indigo cedar
maybe they updated it
mortal hazel
I thought the main issue with threads is like, you can't search in them specifically, it all gets lumped in with the channel
tough owl
well that's still the case for forums
my main issue with threads was how hard it was to find ones that you didn't basically see the creation of, or were pinged into. forums at least seem to have tags and a dedicated search-for-topic feature
sorry to clog up the arkham thread with forum talk
pale jacinth
on a more arkham-y topic, just finished reading through the rules, and a lot of it feels very familiar coming from netrunner, which is nice
tough owl
meanwhile, I'm hoping my familiarity with arkham will help me if I ever go the opposite route
proven acorn
on a more arkham-y topic, just finished reading through the rules, and a lot of ...
the action economy is very similar from what I gather
proven acorn
meanwhile, I'm hoping my familiarity with arkham will help me if I ever go the o...
same haha
pale jacinth
the action economy is very similar from what I gather
yeah, there's a few differences but the basic options and economy flow are close enough
proven acorn
Understanding econ is good, that's a big part of the decks 😄
pale jacinth
also apparently there's a sure gamble that isn't sure gamble
proven acorn
You mean Hot Streak?
pale jacinth
I mean that the netrunner card sure gamble does a different thing to the arkham card sure gamble
hot streak has better numbers than netrunner sure gamble
except the 4xp cost I guess
exotic robin
the unfortunate problem with Hot Streak is that Faustian Bargain exists
pale jacinth
how big is the chaos bag usually?
mortal hazel
Usually starts at around 15-16 tokens
In some campaigns it starts with as few as 13
Usually you end up adding more tokens as a campaign progresses
I think the biggest I've seen without bless/curse mechanics is like... 25?
tough owl
i guess you could in theory end up with 20 extra tokens if you add all 10 of each bless and curses
the silly brain is thinking again
pale jacinth
the unfortunate problem with Hot Streak is that Faustian Bargain exists
so you're adding about a 1/8 failure chance (before any abilities that mess with the bag) in exchange for a way more accessible (in terms of both play cost and xp) and versatile money card, if I'm reading it right?
tough owl
i guess you could in theory end up with 20 extra tokens if you add all 10 of eac...
and then your voice of ra can still pull 3 numbers
pale jacinth
I could try to run you through Gathering and maybe Midnight Masks if we can arra...
I'd be very interested in that if you're free over the next couple of days (I'm in UTC+1, but free any time that's not like midnight-9am my time, unless illness decides to kick my ass enough that I don't have the energy)
proven acorn
I'd be very interested in that if you're free over the next couple of days (I'm ...
does today or tomorrow from <t:1697137200:t> on work for you?
I could also do next week any weekday except Thursday
pale jacinth
either today or tomorrow works, though I'd want to have dinner first if today so I probably can't start for an hour or so, plus maybe a bit longer to sort a deck
proven acorn
yeah that's no problem
decks are definitely also important to sort out
any class you're looking at trying out in particular?
and/or a specific investigator
pale jacinth
I haven't really looked yet - is there a good general pitch on what each class does while I look over the core set investigators?
daisy and agnes both look cool
astral flower
I think Faustian Bargain is a weaker card than most people do
And I still think it is better than Hot Streak
pale jacinth
I think one thing I've got, or like half clocked from the density of economy cards in the core set, is that econ's a bit less key than in netrunner (or I guess more correctly you need less of it proportionately) because you need it mostly just to play your cards
which sounds weird but there's not the extra "and then afford to make runs" layer
either that or the core set is just
really econ starved
which is also possible I suppose
proven acorn
I haven't really looked yet - is there a good general pitch on what each class d...
with the caveat that I'm simplifying a lot here and there are also further exceptions within the classes (and also that I am much less versed at the game than most other people here, but they will probably correct me if necessary):
- Guardians are good at fighting and support, they have strong weapons and cards to support fighting so they can easily be a main fighter for a group, but also have healing, protection, and cards to support other people on the team
- Seekers tend to be focused on investigating and getting clues primarily, they also have strong card filtering through drawing cards or searching their deck
- Rogue are, much like the other two still coming, usually a flex role, can vary a lot based on investigator. They tend to be somewhat combo based, with cards that give good output when combo'd with other things or in specific situations. They also have a somewhat easier time to get lots of resources, you've already seen cards like Faustian Bargain, Hot Streak, Lone Wolf, etc
- Mystics use magic, which lets them do a lot of things, and often focus mainly on their Willpower to do it. With the right spell in play, they can often do nearly anything, but also have drawbacks on a lot of them and can sometimes need a bit of time to upgrade their decks before they really take off.
- Survivor is also flex, but varies a lot based on individual gators whether they lean more towards fighting or clueing. They have a much easier time recurring cards, a lot of playing around with the discard pile in various ways. They also have cards that play around with the difficulty of checks, making things easier to succeed, or even harder to succeed and get benefits for failing checks
pale jacinth
that's basically exactly the sort of overview I'm looking for, ty!
proven acorn
yeah Guardians are usually fighters, but then you also got gators like Mary, Carolyn or Carson in Guardian
mortal hazel
but by and large, Guardians are the most dedicated fighters, Seekers the most dedicated clue-gatherers, and everyone in between is a bit foggy and are usually okay at both but have very different ways of getting there - as class identities, anyway, Tony Morgan is a rogue and he's an absolute beast of a dedicated pure monster killer
pale jacinth
(looking at Shrivelling) can't believe they made Mind Fight from the hit Tom Cardy song Mind Fight into an Arkham Horror card
indigo cedar
Are there simple and good Rogue and or survivors?
proven acorn
Winifred or Finn I'd probably say are pretty simple entries into Rogue
Wini is a really fun time, I played her for my first game and it was a blast
you commit lots of skills to checks, ideally succeed big, and then you reap the rewards
pale jacinth
oh that's a cool dynamic!
mortal hazel
Rogues are usually the most complicated class by default, but Winifred is pretty decent and straightforward. Tony Morgan is also pretty straight forward, but he's usually a straight-up monster hunter rather than a flex.
Survivors I have a harder time judging
proven acorn
Survivors tend to be a bit gimmicky
not in a bad way, just they are often a bit more involved than throwing big stats at things
astral flower
I think one thing I've got, or like half clocked from the density of economy car...
My very general rule of thumb for econ is to run 2 copies of 2 econ cards and that should be good enough. So stuff like Emergency Cache (0 cost gain 3 resources), Burning the Midnight Oil (0 cost investigate and gain 2 resources), etc.
pale jacinth
(also, I might be a bit later than I thought, housemates are in the kitchen for a bit longer so I haven't started making dinner yet)
mortal hazel
I think one thing I've got, or like half clocked from the density of economy car...
Oh this is wildly variable across deck archetypes, I should mention
4 cards is pretty alright in most cases
But if you've got cards that pull a weird double duty in some way or have some other stuff going on, and have an outlet for lots of resources, you can go higher
pale jacinth
yeah that makes a lot of sense
mortal hazel
I've got Winifred decks with 7 resource cards, but like
pale jacinth
but wow that's much lower than I'm used to coming from netrunner
mortal hazel
Some of them are like this, where, yeah, this guy can get me a net of 6 resources
And then he can also block some horror and damage
proven acorn
Watch This is my favorite Wini economy 😛
mortal hazel
but wow that's much lower than I'm used to coming from netrunner
Note that when Alison says "economy" she means purely +resource cards I'm pretty sure
Excludes draw
proven acorn
Watch This is my favorite Wini economy 😛
mortal hazel
More draw is generally really good, especially if it's actionless or otherwise has action compression
astral flower
I do not mean draw, and I'm also not including stuff like Milan
(which is technically a resource generator but takes a while to actually pay off)
mortal hazel
(if you're playing with taboo, anyway, lots of new players don't and that's fine, though I also hear a lot of people play with taboo'd Milan by sheer reflex because they expect him to be 1/round, they don't believe he could possibly be uncapped)
astral flower
Milan does count as economy if he's untaboo'd 😛
I also instinctively assumed he was once a round since I did not really believe that FFG would print a 0 EXP card that gives you unlimited resources for the rest of the game
pale jacinth
oh taboo's like the balance errata thing right?
mortal hazel
i think they thought that succeeding at basic tests was tricky or something
proven acorn
oh taboo's like the balance errata thing right?
basically yes
indigo cedar
am I correct in reading bob jenkins is pretty good?
exotic robin
yes
pale jacinth
yeah uh
looking at milan that sure did not say 1/round huh
astral flower
He's a decent investigator yeah
pale jacinth
and sure does make it easier to pull off those investigations
astral flower
I think some people think poorly of him but I am not one of those people
mortal hazel
am I correct in reading bob jenkins is pretty good?
yup
astral flower
He's basically the item version of Leo
mortal hazel
there's very few investigators I'd say are weak but Bob is very strong
proven acorn
am I correct in reading bob jenkins is pretty good?
Bob is interesting
a bit funky like most of the EotE gators
mortal hazel
Potentially has a bit of a skill floor?
astral flower
I wouldn't recommend Bob for a new player though
You need to know your decks and your teammates' decks well
mortal hazel
naw
indigo cedar
yeah you'd have to know the value of your items too
tough owl
the EotE investigators are fun
mortal hazel
Bob honestly works perfectly fine on his own without special synergies
astral flower
Yeah, I mean to like, play him optimally
mortal hazel
You don't need to put items in your deck specifically to give to other people
astral flower
Whereas you can play Stella optimally much easier
proven acorn
the EotE investigators are fun
I do like their dynamic, but it does make their deckbuilding a bit tricky
mortal hazel
You can just pull off funny scavenging and Joey loops
And do Big Money stuff
And that by itself makes Bob really strong
astral flower
Actual optimal Bob play probably involves using your ability to give teammates items that they were balanced around not having access to
mortal hazel
The first time I was exposed to the power of Well Connected was when Till was casually surviving the worst shit in TFA as Bob and that was when he was struggling to get off the ground
mortal hazel
Actual optimal Bob play probably involves using your ability to give teammates i...
potentially
though I might argue that's actually more like
the fun but less optimal way to play Bob
'cause one of the secrets of Rogue is that you're just kinda the most powerful thing around if you manage to really get going
astral flower
Yeah
proven acorn
ah, Lupara
mortal hazel
You're a slimey salesman? no, you're rich
you can just
be good by being rich
you are bob the used car salesman, the snake oil merchant, but you're also bob the money-powered shotgun-toting killing machine
astral flower
Anyway if I had to pick a character for a total newbie to play that's very simple from each class, it would be something like...
Guardian: Zoey
Seeker: Daisy/Ursula
Rogue: Tony/Winifred?
Mystic: Akachi
Survivor: Stella?
proven acorn
and if you go big money, Bob's weakness is also kinda toothless
astral flower
Duke might be a good shout for a beginner Survivor
probably hard for a newbie to use his untap ability optimally but the doggie takes you a long way
mortal hazel
Pete works okay as a starter in standard, yeah
You can be +2 to most tests and just never get stuck
astral flower
and it's kinda hard for Pete to mess up deckbuilding or piloting and end up being totally useless
because of the dog
mortal hazel
Action compression can be kinda hellish if you don't know what you're doing but that's about it
proven acorn
Anyway if I had to pick a character for a total newbie to play that's very simpl...
surprised you didn't put Rex for Seeker
exotic robin
Rex is probably alright as a starter investigator but his weakness is super annoying
like just, it just doesn't do anything, it just makes taking tests obnoxious
proven acorn
yeah the weakness is annoying, that's true
his ability is just to me very quintessential Seeker
investigate good to get more clues
pale jacinth
ok I'm only now getting food so I probably won't be able to start for half an hour or so
in the meantime I've thrown together a revised core set only daisy deck (https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/3276364) based off the linked starter one from the video series
(that link should hopefully be viewable idk if arkhamdb's private works like netrunnerdb's)
proven acorn
link works, yeah
pale jacinth
I'd appreciate feedback or even just a brief sanity check of if the deck looks sensible
proven acorn
looks pretty decent at first glance to me
astral flower
I would get rid of the willpower stuff
I get that it's meant to help you tank Drawn to the Flame encounters, but they're going to be useless too much of the time
it's probably better to just get soak
proven acorn
the Rosary I'd agree doesn't do that much for you
I'd consider cutting that and the Barricade for something else
pale jacinth
Just trying to look for what else there is, given the options in core
Are hyperawareness style assets good, because my gut says they're too resource intensive
proven acorn
depends a bit
how your economy works out, and also what stats it boosts
for Daisy, you probably don't need it for the Int boost that much, with 5 base and Milan
could be useful for pumping Agility for evading potentially, but not sure if its worth playing just for that
especially the level 0 version when it costs 2 itself already
you could also just get two Manual Dexterity for that tbh
or Unexpected Courage
or just hope someone else can peel enemies off you 😛
pale jacinth
cool, I'll probably just throw in unexpected courage as a catch-all instead of the rosary and barricade and call it a deck for now
it doesn't need to be perfect, just playable
proven acorn
yeah for sure
pale jacinth
I'm also now finally actually ready and around, if you're still up for the Gathering teach/runthrough tonight, though obviously very fair if not because it has taken me a while
proven acorn
it'll definitely do for just learning things
proven acorn
I'm also now finally actually ready and around, if you're still up for the Gathe...
nah you're all good
we can just hop into Activity 1, I got a server on TTS up already
pale jacinth
because I have played exactly no arkham horror before
so I wanted to limit the card pool somewhat to avoid overwhelming myself
it's literally just "I'm kind of sick right now and don't want to deal with loads and loads of cards all at once"
(I realise I had that typed ages ago but didn't actually send it)
astral flower
ahh makes sense
proven acorn
Gathering got a bit more close than I thought it would, but we pulled out the win 😄
pale jacinth
Definitely was never any point where I could have accidentally lethally punched you
proven acorn
it was my own fault honestly, we could have just delayed advancing the act a round
I had a First Aid in hand I could have used to heal up a bit
pale jacinth
Well we weren't punished so clearly it was actually tactical genius
glad bolt
I'd appreciate feedback or even just a brief sanity check of if the deck looks s...
my cule will wake up in a few hours and they'll be full of feedback
they are bags of arkham energy
pale jacinth
After what just happened in Arkham I'm not entirely convinced it's super safe to be carrying Arkham energy around in bags :p
glad bolt
it's true they're radioactive
high kindle
Are there simple and good Rogue and or survivors?
I would recommend pete is a first survivor
and for curse generating cards
I think they are very bad if your team can't handle them and very good if they can
basically
its very much a situation thing
I don't agree with the put faustian in and yolo approach people seem to have
high kindle
in the meantime I've thrown together a revised core set only daisy deck (https:/...
this honestly looks fine for starter cardpool
exotic robin
I would recommend pete is a first survivor
I think Stella was pretty solid as an introduction to Survivor, but also I had you and Alex to explain how 0 diff works and to push me into getting double Quick Learner
still, she's like
fucking invincible
mortal hazel
Yeah, I hear a lot of people struggle to intuit the fail-forward/difficulty reduction mechanics
exotic robin
and her gimmick is pretty straightforward once you wrap your head around 0 diff
mortal hazel
While Pete, at his simplest, is simply both a fighter and a cluer and is resistant to the mythos and is fairly permissive of deckbuilding mistakes (on Standard difficulty) since every card has a special intrinsic value for him. (Wendy is similar but dealing with enemies as her is a bit more complicated)
(though I will say that good Pete decks that can do well on higher difficulties and fight or investigate well are quite tricky. still, he's one of my favorite investigators, and it feels really rewarding to pull off.)
astral flower
I feel like fail forward is intuitive enough to grasp once you've played with a few fail cards
Specifically if a newbie is told about/asked to imagine a Stella turn that just abuses the free action using Take Heart on a doomed investigate/track shoes check, or abusing Drawing Thin
mortal hazel
I've seen a few players really struggle with some pretty basic math, but my reference pool is not huge.
astral flower
I feel like they'll go "aha!" pretty quickly
pale jacinth
oh stella's interesting huh
that's a mechanic I definitely wouldn't have clocked the value of without looking up track shoes, the rest of her cards, and 2 intellect
because my first read was just "huh that's an ok mitigation and the elder sign seems not super worth it except in some very specific situations"
and then it becomes very quickly an "oh here's some no consequence checks for a potential source of failure and a bunch of payoffs for your no consequences failures"
mortal hazel
yeah
pale jacinth
also neither rain or snow seems kind of absurdly good? which I guess makes sense if it's Stella only, I'm just checking there's not something I'm missing
mortal hazel
when a failed action gets you an extra action and you can get payoff from failed actions, fail-forward becomes pure profit
pale jacinth
wait and she's trans?
mortal hazel
I think it can be a bit of a trap in the full cardpool for most Survivors to invest too heavily in fail-forward tech, beyond stuff like, Look What I Found or such
yup
pale jacinth
postal service stay winning (failing to run and somehow getting extra money and ability to do stuff from that)
mortal hazel
note also this card, that released with Stella, and which her weakness is actually really obviously designed around: https://arkhamdb.com/bundles/cards/60530.png
If you fail a test as Stella (this also applies to tests from treacheries drawn in the Mythos phase, so e.g. if you failed a Rotting Remains test or something), you'll have four actions in your turn, so you'll have a window of 1 action where tests are more difficult, but then you get 2 actions which are easier
mortal hazel
also neither rain or snow seems kind of absurdly good? which I guess makes sense...
and yeah it's really good
especially since Survivors can often get cards back from their discard pile
pale jacinth
If you fail a test as Stella (this also applies to tests from treacheries drawn ...
wait I misread that when I saw it in the pack on arkhamdb huh
for some reason I thought it was number of tests in the turn not number of actions
pale jacinth
so if you're in a position where you're moving or something first
or just need to make the stella fail more consistent
mortal hazel
If you have two copies of Quick Learner and draw Rotting Remains in the mythos phase, the difficulty is still 3. Your turn occurs while you're taking your turn inside of the investigation phase - anything that refers to "your turn" generally doesn't work or apply outside of that.
and yeah Quick Learner is often a very early Stella buy
I tend to grab one copy fairly early (helps you much more reliably investigate shroud 3 locations when paired with a flashlight or old keyring, or evade most kinds of enemies), then get some other XP purchases, then grab a second copy
high kindle
stella is very powerful
the one thing that really hurts her is on fail effects
her card helps with that but its still the big risk
mortal hazel
I go back and forth on whether to call Stella "powerful", but I think it's very fair to call her that. To some extent, if you can succeed consistently on basic tests and avoid dying, you're a long way towards winning the game, and Stella is very very consistently good at both.
pale jacinth
difficulty 0?
mortal hazel
yeah. i'm... admittedly avoiding thinking about upgraded old keyrings here
high kindle
basically
if you put a tests difficulty to 0
the lowest a - can put you is zero
so you only fail on autofail
mortal hazel
difficulty 0?
Okay, so when you take a test, you have your skill value and the difficulty and the chaos token, right? Your skill value cannot be negative and you win on ties (barring very special exceptions). yeah.
mortal hazel
yup!
This is the secret power of flashlights and other things which reduce difficulty
This basic card is very nearly a guarantee of getting three clues from a location with 2 shroud, even if you have a very sad 
stat. (looks like ArkhamDB is struggling rn. Either that or Discord is.)
pale jacinth
oh so that's why it's -2 shroud and not "you get +2 on the investigate"
mortal hazel
yup!
And that's why Quick Learner can be really powerful
Have two copies of it on Stella, you can probably get two clues a turn from a shroud 1-2 location, no matter what
(Have two copies and a flashlight and you can do it with a shroud 3-4 location)
high kindle
stella is in that catagory of survivors that can get really good at consistently passing tests they want to
but have to work a bit for compression
mortal hazel
Survivors tend to be bad at "action compression", i.e. dealing lots of damage or getting many clues in one action. But they tend to be very good at this kind of consistency, and Stella especially is great at it.
yeah
high kindle
yeah the other big one is calvin
pale jacinth
I really should like
Sit down and make a list of "arkham cards that have the same name as netrunner cards" just for my own personal amusement because I've found another one
mortal hazel
(most survivors can get various kinds of compression from non-Survivor cards, but Stella, like the other start pack investigators, has no off-class access.)
mortal hazel
yeah
and unlike Stella he doesn't get usually effectively free bonus actions that can be used to run a Rabbit's Foot-powered draw economy
mortal hazel
oh yeah
high kindle
I really enjoyed that calvin deck
mortal hazel
Trial by Fire is crazy enough in investigators who don't already have +4-5 to every stat
yeah
high kindle
well and shoving the bag full of bless
mortal hazel
There's definitely a lot of the Survivor cardpool I haven't properly played around with yet
mortal hazel
yeah
proven acorn
Oh neat
indigo cedar
parallel investigator?
mortal hazel
oh hey yeah this is a bit weird for the new players but like
Uhh, got dinner coming soon and two servers I'm discussing this on 
Anyway, parallel investigators is a gimmick they came up with during like, pandemic-enforced delays
To keep the designers etc. busy
indigo cedar
reasonable
mortal hazel
They started revisiting old investigators and started making alternate fronts and backs for the investigator cards
indigo cedar
in different classes?
mortal hazel
Sometimes doing small print-and-play alternate scenarios to go along with them
Nah, they usually stay in the same class, but the deckbuilding rules often change
indigo cedar
interesting enough
mortal hazel
Though you can have a parallel front (stats, abilities) and an original back (deckbuilding rules) or vice versa
yeah
So far they've done the core investigators and very recently they started slowly working their way through the Dunwich investigators
So there's parallel versions of Roland, Skids, Daisy, Agnes, Wendy, Ashcan Pete and now Jim
indigo cedar
I don't know why but seeing Jim after ashcan pete made me giggle
mortal hazel
I'm pretty happy with this particular parallel - I have generally been of the opinion that Jim is one of the weakest, blandest investigators in the entire game
haha
And they got really creative with this one and knocked it out of the park, I think
proven acorn
Does he get a different signature?
exotic robin
nah, advanced signatures this time
which like
kinda strong
but uh
that's going to hit you for 5 
5 every time
mortal hazel
yeah advanced signatures tend to be a bit soft-banned at our table and I don't see that changing
proven acorn
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/69/be/69be7d81-5a35-4fdf-...
oof
mortal hazel
(There's a rules document linked in the article, but, basically: advanced signatures and be taken instead of the usual signature, as long as you grab an advanced weakness along with it. Parallel investigators with challenge scenarios can also play them as side missions to get just the advanced signature.)
proven acorn
that's incredibly harsh, jfc
mortal hazel
flip side, Bandages access, and it procs on each
proven acorn
true
mortal hazel
the horror is a bit rougher but that's what the trumpet kinda hilariously nullifies
indigo cedar
I found a few investigators that seemed cool
wait there are investigators without classes?
proven acorn
there are three neutral gators currently, yes
Charlie is ally shenanigans to compensate for his terrible stats
Lola and Suzi are... weirder
proven acorn
oh and he has a special side deck too?
okay looking at this, it seems really good too?
unless I misread, it looks like you just get to flip an ally from your Beyond deck every turn and keep them for free until you get to four, where it might get a bit dicey tbf
mortal hazel
yeah, though you can't use them for soak, and 
-boosting allies are a bit uncommon, and they're still uniques so you gotta co-ordinate with the rest of the group a bit on that
indigo cedar
the three I narrowed it down to are: Luke Robinson, Jenny Barnes, Bob Jenkins
proven acorn
yeah I was counting that in already
being able to just teleport anywhere on a large map can be pretty handy
indigo cedar
and his weakness seems like... not that bad?
proven acorn
it's pretty mild yeah, can even sometimes benefit you
since its effectively another Box charge, with some downsides
mortal hazel
well
The bad box isn't connected to other locations anymore
So it does put you in timeout if you can't investigate it
proven acorn
yeah but you still get to come back where you want afterwards, right?
it does still make you waste a turn or most of it, but you still get the movement IIRC
mortal hazel
yeah
tough owl
the box is also the first shenanigan I though about in the "how can we give Luke a sniper rifle while he's in the box" way
impractical and probably worse than your regular guardian with a long-range weapon, but funny
mortal hazel
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/427974417495097354/1162038960357376071/9k...
wait, I just realized, this joke doesn't work!
the original question was about like
themes and genres and tropes and stuff
Arkham isn't one of those things
tough owl
lol
glad bolt
wait, I just realized, this joke doesn't work!
no the joke is listing things that are applicable in many circumstances
you specifically asked for a thing you'd like in 3 months and 6
it's always arkham
astral flower
yeah advanced signatures tend to be a bit soft-banned at our table and I don't s...
Wait, all advanced signatures are?
I thought we just banned the guitar for being absurdly overpowered
Also I wonder if you can team up with a bless spamming ally to play around rhapsody
proven acorn
we got five of the Cultists in Midnight Masks, but had to resign in the face of too much Doom
still a pretty good showing I think
tough owl
had an absolute blast, Arkham's real good
(my first game ended with me dynamite blasting myself, a hotel lobby full of witnesses, at least one other investigator, a police sergeant, and a fish monster. dynamite blast has a special place in my memory)
pale jacinth
and I would be super interested in doing other campaigns basically whenever
pale jacinth
(my first game ended with me dynamite blasting myself, a hotel lobby full of wit...
that's one hell of a story jeez
proven acorn
(my first game ended with me dynamite blasting myself, a hotel lobby full of wit...
lmao
glad bolt
tom: we have dynamite blast at home
the dynamite blast at home: https://arkhamdb.com/bundles/cards/03189.png
tough owl
I am a staunch believer in the real dynamite blast
especially because you can attach it to Stick to the Plan
and Dynamite Blast (3) being a fast, cheaper version is excellent
mortal hazel
It's a card you shouldn't ever need
but in practice things can go haywire sometimes
exotic robin
there's at least one "damn, sure could use some dynamite" moment every campaign
also
exotic robin
the dynamite blast at home: https://arkhamdb.com/bundles/cards/03189.png
this card is so fake
doesn't even kill you for real
high kindle
the dynamite blast at home is totally storm of spirits tbh
astral flower
I don't think "I'll see you in hell" is a card I would ever run
I simply do not die enough for it to make sense
mortal hazel
It's very Calvin-specific, honestly
mortal hazel
There could've existed an Arkham Horror where it and Ghastly Revelation made more sense, but that's not the game we ended up getting
astral flower
but like, on a normal investigator
mortal hazel
and even on Calvin I think I'd hesitate these days
astral flower
I mean, maybe if you are playing Hard TFA with only core set or something
wait no
then you definitely don't want to take this card
hahaha
But yeah basically for this card to make sense you have to expect to die
a reasonably large portion of the time
mortal hazel
Like, it's theoretically good on Calvin, but he can get a kinda decent amount of draw these days, which can get him trauma through his own deck mechanics - not to mention just starting with In the Thick of It and Spirit of Humanity, which by itself is an amazing card for just getting you to wherever you need to go
astral flower
Yeah you can just draw and use his weakness for trauma
I think it's still fair on Calvin
For the first few scenarios, but I do think he cuts it
especially since you need to stop being traumatized at some point
mortal hazel
oh lol damn unrelated
This is a review on Jessica Hyde's page
From three years before Vincent was released
(albeit it was always reasonably obvious that there was a gameplay niche for a health version of Carolyn, and for someone who knew the franchise, Vincent was a very obvious fit)
indigo cedar
there's a franchise?
mortal hazel
oh yeah
mostly not one worth mentioning, really, though I hear the latest Arkham Horror board game is alright
The oldest version goes all the way back to 1987, which was based on Call of Cthulhu
(Fun fact: Harvey Walters was the very first example PC printed for Call of Cthulhu. He was a reporter or journalist or somesuch back then rather than a professor, though.)
indigo cedar
cool
mortal hazel
There's also the world-trotting Eldritch Horror spinoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldritch_Horror
The majority of investigators in the card game appeared in the earlier board games
(New ones include Winifred, Kymani, Stella and Amina - you'll note that these are all forms of rep you might expect to be pretty rare in games from the oughts or earlier. earlier diverse characters like Lily or Akachi often are easy to associate with slightly unfortunate stereotypes, though they are also just cool in their own right)
high kindle
but like, on a normal investigator
I used it playing leo in the full game hard highlander run of ||spooders|| my friends did
two fist symbols on a no xp card? get in
mortal hazel
that doesn't count as normal
having one copy of every card in the pool (other than flashlight and the basic cantrips), to share, among eight decks
is not normal
astral flower
What's Winifred's rep?
astral flower
oh huh I had no idea
mortal hazel
Her birthname's Weethao
Yeah, if you don't pay attention to the backstory or forget, it's not super obvious
Winifred - Weethao as her parents know her, Wini to her friends - was one of the smartest kids in her reservation school. However, her reckless attitude and lack of respect for authority meant she often got herself into trouble. The course of her life changed forever when she found an old biplane in a farmer's garage and decided to "take it out for a spin." The owner, a former pilot in the Great War, was awestruck by her natural talent and offered to teach her what he knew. Now Wini is known as the "woman without fear," showing off her skills in barnstormers all across the country. That nickname would be tested when, during one of her shows, she spotted a creature she could scarcely describe: a thing with leathery wings and a single, mutated, pus-filled eye.
gotta appreciate Winifred for being like the most decision paralysis-inducing investigator ever when it comes to deckbuilding
other than maybe parallel Roland, lol, but unlike parallel Roland it's not really a question of what selection of cards will actually work, so much as what direction and synergies you wanna focus on
high kindle
really? I never found her super crazy to make work
mortal hazel
the precise balance of events versus assets versus skills
yeah, but I could pull five versions of Winifred from the top of my head and they all overlap just enough that it's easy to slip when deckbuilding and start splitting your attention a bit
And then you have to pull yourself together and make hard decisions about exactly what really good thing you want
high kindle
I manage to make leo decks just fine 😛
mortal hazel
haha, fair
indigo cedar
gran do you make spreadsheets when building decks
mortal hazel
yeah, Leo opens up a lot when you look at him as more than just "the allies guy"
mostly you don't need to make spreadsheets when you have arkhamdb
but i'll admit i've occasionally scrawled down spreadsheets when trying really hard to make decisions
mortal hazel
(i also make small spreadsheets during play if I'm playing Jacqueline, but that's a different thing)
indigo cedar
I was just tryna be mean
indigo cedar
I assume that, because of how specialised they seem, Survivors and Mages would be easy-ish to build
mortal hazel
ehhh, it really depends
Mystics are usually pretty easy to build for as a baseline, though, at least with a full cardpool
exotic robin
if they have 5 , it's pretty easy to build The One Mystic Deck
mortal hazel
Survivors can be really easy or really tricky, depending
Leaning more in the direction of tricky for most of them
indigo cedar
interesting
mortal hazel
Survivors are... interesting, and probably the class that most people take the longest to get used to
Like, if you look at Survivors, over half of them are, strictly speaking, bad at getting anything done as a baseline. (not counting evasion)
Only four out of ten have a stat of 4 or higher in either or 
, the skills you typically use to gather clues or fight off enemies, right?
(Rogues are actually very similar in that regards, but the way they get around their overall weakness is extremely different in practice.)
So a lot of Survivor deckbuilding revolves around circumventing that
They're very good at reliably circumventing that when you know what you're doing, and reliability is a big part of Survivor's identity at this point.
(Rogues are extremely good at circumventing that when you know what you're doing. What they struggle with is the reliability part)
astral flower
I don't use spreadsheets when building Arkham decks
Really I build all my decks the same way in every card game, which is by sitting in a discord channel or notepad and just doing train of consciousness
Peppered with occasional screenshots or responses to people who have feedback
just long rants like this to myself is roughly what I do for deckbuilding
I also spend some time just sitting in arkhamdb with the appropriate filters and scrolling through options
lack of knowledge about the card pool is my biggest deckbuilding weakness
so it's good practice
pale jacinth
trying to resist the urge to just grind out a lot of solo games bc I think that risks me burning out on arkham but I can't lie it's tempting
this game has taken literally two sessions to worm its way directly into my heart and idle thoughts
mortal hazel
yeah for me personally solo Arkham just always felt kinda bad
I know a lot of people do it but it's not really my thing
glad bolt
trying to resist the urge to just grind out a lot of solo games bc I think that ...
I encourage getting a group!
Lots of players here who I think would be happy for more games
And you can convince your friends
pale jacinth
I was just typing something to that effect lol
glad bolt
I honestly love the Arkham combat+ engagement+evasion core mechanics they're so simple and elegant and evocative
pale jacinth
annoyingly I'm at a level of slightly ill plus new to the game where I don't think I'd be able to deliver a good teach yet so recruiting my friends is probably not an immediately available option
But in the meantime the easiest way to solve this is to actually put in the effort to try and organise stuff, if anyone in the thread is interested in some games with a slightly tired new player over this weekend (and probably into an ongoing thing, but that's a bit more schedule dependent), please do say!
I can throw up a when2meet if multiple people want in, but I'm free... ok in theory if my sleep schedule is as bad as it has been the past few nights I'm free literally whenever 24/7 but hopefully that doesn't happen so let's say between <t:1697274000:t> and <t:1697324400:t> either today or tomorrow (I hope that hammertime works, and I know in theory it's halfway through today already)
proven acorn
But in the meantime the easiest way to solve this is to actually put in the effo...
probably don't have time this weekend unfortunately
but I would be interested in starting a campaign if we can find a consistent timeslot during the week
indigo cedar
two in a couple weeks?
mortal hazel
that's the pace I was more hoping for when they started this stuff yeah
pale jacinth
probably don't have time this weekend unfortunately
but I would be interested i...
I'd be super down, but my schedule ATM is a tad up in the air - Tuesday evenings are probably the timeslot least likely to change if that works for you?
mortal hazel
Pete was a bit of a dud, IMO, and every other Dunwich investigator really needed a parallel more than he did
exotic robin
hoping for Jenny tbh
Zoey and Rex also have kinda boring abilities, but Jenny and Jim were both kinda boring and on the weaker side
proven acorn
I'd be super down, but my schedule ATM is a tad up in the air - Tuesday evenings...
Tuesdays would work for me, so that works out so far
(Sorry for the delayed response, I read this earlier and then forgot)
wispy phoenix
Tuesdays would work for me, so that works out so far
(Sorry for the delayed resp...
💀
pale jacinth
Tuesdays would work for me, so that works out so far
(Sorry for the delayed resp...
cool! does a similar time to when we previously played work for you (so <t:1697569200:f>), and would you be up to start this week (i.e. tomorrow?)
proven acorn
cool! does a similar time to when we previously played work for you (so <t:16975...
yeah that works out for me, and should be a reliable timeslot
proven acorn
about what I expected based on the bit of it we saw in the german promo image
being able to replenish offerings as well is interesting
mortal hazel
yeah
kinda completely useless with most cards we know of
but Shrine of the Moirai is interesting
proven acorn
we might also see some more offering cards in Hemlock
curious how many offering based things there are currently
huh, fewer than I thought
exotic robin
Masks use offerings, so there's like five-six already
astral flower
I don't really want to use this in a "fair" Mystic deck, obviously, cursing the bag for a 1 damage attack sucks
It could work for a curse mystic
mortal hazel
You definitely do bring curse tech along and make sure the team's okay with the occasional spillage
astral flower
It is nice that it lets you put in as many chaos tokens as you want forever as long as there is an enemy
For decks like that
mortal hazel
It's essentially a Mystic version of the Fire Axe
albeit with different costs and payoffs
It's great self defense for a mystic that doesn't want or need to be a super reliable secondary fighter, maybe having 1-2 proper fight spell assets in their deck
astral flower
"Sword Cane for Curse Mystics"
mortal hazel
Yeah
wispy phoenix
Dexter time
mortal hazel
Great for killing rats or finishing off 3 health enemies (or 4-health enemies if you've got a fully upgraded spell)
astral flower
The ideal turn with this is like, I kill a rat with athame, putting a charge on eye of chaos, then use eye of chaos
Anyway, I'm going to try this in Parallel Jim
Which I am playing next campaign
astral flower
I think that this is overall a good card
proven acorn
the charge restore makes it a decent sidearm I think
astral flower
Does three different things that curse mystics want (a bit of self defense, replenish charges, add curses)
indigo cedar
sword cane?
proven acorn
or for finishing off that last point on tougher enemies
proven acorn
sword cane?
it's a mystic weapon
lets you fight or evade with Willpower
astral flower
I wish there was the option to add 0 curses so I could see if there were any high fight investigators that get to take mystic level 0 cards
And then use it for 0 curses every time to get free charges on stuff
mortal hazel
sword cane?
Very efficient cheap enemy management: https://arkhamdb.com/bundles/cards/07029.png
mortal hazel
I wish there was the option to add 0 curses so I could see if there were any hig...
Lily
Not sure if she has anything she really wants to recharge, though
astral flower
Maybe it's the most scuffed Runic Axe recharger ever
Hahaha
For the early scenarios where it doesn't have fast recharge
mortal hazel
you'd have to bring a bandolier
proven acorn
hmmm
It's also replenish, so you can't charge a Wish Eater or something
astral flower
Again, though, that's in a world where you can choose to put in 0
pale jacinth
just don't draw the curse token 5head
astral flower
Anyway, this incentivizes curse Mystics to wear masks
pale jacinth
if you simply assume you're infinitely lucky and never draw it that's basically the same as not adding it don't think about it too hard or really at all because otherwise the plan breaks down and even if you have ways to manipulate the tokens you draw there are almost certainly better use cases and payoffs
proven acorn
the masks already seemed pretty good
astral flower
Yes
proven acorn
depending on what the recharge condition on the rest of them are
astral flower
But if you run this they feel almost mandatory
pale jacinth
yeah that works out for me, and should be a reliable timeslot
also @proven acorn I'm around and ready if you are, want to jump into vc?
proven acorn
yep sure
wispy phoenix
I can see a really funky Akachi build using this, Astral Mirror and Runic Axe
mortal hazel
Anyway, this incentivizes curse Mystics to wear masks
Definitely feel like it's way too early to say this
I'd never bother charging the Survivor or Guardian mask with this, because they both have incredibly permissive replenishing conditions already
proven acorn
if the Guardian one really is just engaging an enemy, then yeah
also can people give me a quick sanity check on this Tommy deck? 😛
exotic robin
probably can drop the Bandolier? Becky self-replenishes pretty well, so once that's in play, you don't really need Machete
by the same token, probably would drop Venturer for Beat Cop, but idk, kinda arguable at 0xp?
proven acorn
the Bandolier is a bit greedy, thinking I might do Survival Knife shenanigans later
but I probably should drop it
exotic robin
oooh, nah that makes sense
proven acorn
and I can probably just buy an upgraded Bandolier later directly
exotic robin
one more thing is that I'm real iffy on Hallowed Mirror - it's something that you want to keep in play, so kinda conflicts with Keepsakes, which are a really good source of econ and ammo and Tommy has enough soak that he probably doesn't need healing for himself. Probably would drop it if it's selfish healing, but as team healing it's reasonable
exotic robin
like... in general, Hallowed Mirror is probably the best level 0 healing in the game, and the best Guardian accessory at level 0, but it's not like... busted good auto-include?
proven acorn
one more thing is that I'm real iffy on Hallowed Mirror - it's something that yo...
yeah I just really like Mirror
thinking I might just pick up a Relic Hunter quickly for the slot
or I guess I can buy an upgraded Mirror later
mortal hazel
Tommy wants his stuff to die, is the thing, so Mirror would be for team support
Usually
exotic robin
also, I can recommend Custom Mods, played with it on Roland and it's a 10/10 card if you want to use guns
wispy phoenix
Tommy wants his stuff to die, is the thing, so Mirror would be for team support
@tough owl how could you
tough owl
like... in general, Hallowed Mirror is probably the best level 0 healing in the ...
y'know, looking this up there's exactly 1 other Guardian Accessory at level 0 - Riot Whistle
tough owl
<@203733729577926656> how could you
they don't die
they're like pokemon
they just faint
and then I send their identical twins back in
proven acorn
I will probably spend my early XP on putting some checks on Custom Mods though
exotic robin
just not sure if they're worth the include at 0 XP
the reroll is still nice, but it's pretty optional at the start unless you also slot in Refine
which like, is kind of an ask I think
proven acorn
yeah probably not taking Refine
wispy phoenix
Also, have you considered Wrong Place, Right Time?
To springboard off this, you can also take In the Thick of It for guaranteed damage on yourself
astral flower
I'd never bother charging the Survivor or Guardian mask with this, because they ...
That's fair
Re the Tommy deck, I wonder if you can squeeze in Overpowers
It's not 100% necessary but it is, uh, a good card so I try to put it in when possible
Guardian is notorious for having too many skills though
tough owl
but they're fun and cool skills D:
proven acorn
I got Daring, which should cover a similar thing on attacks at least
though doesn't cover me for miscellaneous Combat checks of course
exotic robin
I always double up tbh
astral flower
I think Venturer > Beat Cop at level 0 is reasonable/defensible but you should run upgraded Beat Cop over Venturer for sure
That card is really strong
proven acorn
also real quick
if we run Carcosa, should take the original or Return To?
exotic robin
I'd recommend original on a first run
astral flower
I'm not sure if Bandolier is worth it just for Survival Knife, even though Survival Knife is a good card in Tommy
I might just run Knife and then give it up when I put becky into play, and spend the card slot and xp on something else
exotic robin
Return tos are sometimes bugfixes, but most of them bring in extra replayability and increase difficulty
astral flower
The Return To TCU has some text that mildly to moderately spoils the scenario at the start because it assumes you've played it before
exotic robin
Return to Carcosa definitely ups the difficulty
wispy phoenix
I'd recommend to the originals first with everything but Forgotten Age
I've never played OG Forgotten Age and I think my life is better for it
astral flower
The Forgotten Age is a great scenario for people who enjoy shop displays that are just the word "lonely" written in black with a dead plant to the side
proven acorn
first scenario went pretty well for us
the economy and soaking damage on Tommy went a lot better than I expected it to
tough owl
Tommy ruined set up my expectation for future guardians
"where's my pile of resources D:"
proven acorn
I had so many resources after the first couple turns
proven acorn
Tommy ~~ruined~~ set up my expectation for future guardians
"where's my pile of ...
Also Zoey can also swim in similar amounts of money IME 😛
tough owl
haven't played Zoey, but I can see that
glad bolt
https://vxtwitter.com/N_MYIHTOI/status/1714034410658644398 average arkham encounter
astral flower
Visigoth with the blessed spear build
mortal hazel
the economy and soaking damage on Tommy went a lot better than I expected it to
yeah, I tend to mention Tommy as one of the top-3 most reliable tanks/monster handlers in the game
(Alongside Leo and Yorick - Yorick, notably, also being a Survivor/Guardian combo)
indigo cedar
alas, poor yorick
mortal hazel
More subjectively I tend to consider Tommy the best-designed "traditional" Guardian - as in, an investigator who is incentivized to protect and support others and also fight monsters as part of that.
There's a lot of cards that just fit him really well and help him fill that so-called "Paladin" archetype (which is what he was called by the game's then-lead designer)