World of Darkness

[vast blaze]

How well would Monster Hunter's hunters do in WoD

[fathom haven]

Better than most people would think

[vast blaze]

I mean yeah, no doubt they'd do well, given they regularly hunt apex megafauna

I'm mostly wondering just how well

[fathom haven]

I actually think that they would get along well with Garou if you think about it

"This Wyrm creature is fucking up our ecosystem"
"Say no more"

[vast blaze]

Lol true

[fathom haven]

https://tenor.com/view/sunhilegend-monster-hunter-wilds-arkveld-great-sword-gif-11707530774510727642

[vast blaze]

"OH BOY I CAN GO DO THE THING THAT IS LITERALLY MY ENTIRE LIFE'S WORK"

[fathom haven]

Either that or they'd be a sect of hunters specifically used for bigger threats

Archid form Mokole, large monsterous Tzimisce/Nosferatu, Tzimisce war ghouls, etc

[mighty zephyr]

They would do pretty bad

Because Monster Hunters live in a world where there's not particularly complex interpersonal human conflict

[vast blaze]

Mmm, true

[strong bronze]

A garou reluctantly going into glabro to get an extra foot of height and reach so they can change a lightbulb

[fathom haven]

I'm NGL, if it wouldn't expose me, I'd probably be in glabro as much as possible

[vast blaze]

What a handsome lad this fellow is

[fathom haven]

I saw this earlier today lol

[vast blaze]

...thought

What happens if you lower your generation to 1 with Blood Of Potency

[mighty zephyr]

Mechanically, nothing, because there is no rules for that

[vast blaze]

Sorry

[mighty zephyr]

I'm not offended and you don't gotta apologize dude

I'm just sorta saying the most direct answer, I'm not trying to put you down or anything, and I'm sorry if I am

[marble sorrel]

I can say god smites you

Because I am willing to make things up to your face

And it's always whatever god your character doesn't believe in

[vast blaze]

You're not, I'm just apologizing for asking dumb shit

Again

[grave gulch]

fake A.I shit is probably a godsend for masquerade breachers

[viscid stratus]

Tzimisce stay winning. Just grow a sixth finger and do whatever, nobody will believe the photos

[strong bronze]

Apparently just

Telling people that magic exists can ruin their changes of awakening

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah

[radiant marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyxU4RqD0G0

Can't be worse than Earthblood

She said, tempting fate

[fathom haven]

Why does the Crinos form look so

Malnourished

Oh ok it was just the lighting

[mighty zephyr]

I'm suspicious of AI usage ngl

[fathom haven]

Yeah I'm not convinced

[velvet sparrow]

Steam page has no disclosure

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3746290/Werewolf_The_Apocalypse__Rageborn/

Steam

Werewolf: The Apocalypse – Rageborn

AWAKEN YOUR RAGEWhat can two students do in the face of the apocalypse?
When his eco-activist friend is gunned down before his eyes, Taylor’s true nature is revealed in a tsunami of blood. He becomes a monster, a werewolf – a champion of the Earth. Thus begins a quest for vengeance and identity across the wild expanses of Alaska.
Howl at th…

Release Date

2027

[fathom haven]

I also hate that it's another werewolf thing that only uses 3 forms

Glabro and Hispo need love

[steel agate]

I’ve been starting to jones more and more on getting into a W:tA game at some point, ngl

The general themes of the game hit home really hard for me; I feel like I’d thrive

[mighty zephyr]

WtA is fun

[fathom haven]

LOOKING FOR A WTA GAME I HEAR

I've been wanting to run one for SO long (I'd rather play if possible, but would be more than happy to run)

[steel agate]

I will stay tuned to this station in that regard 😄

[fathom haven]

You looking at W5 or some of the older stuff?

[steel agate]

Primarily W5, yeah; I do have a copy of Revised, though

[fathom haven]

I was gonna say, I have almost all the revised and W20 books, and I have a physical copy of W5

[steel agate]

I'll probably be free to put something together game-wise in about 4-6 weeks, since it sounds like my Cyberpunk RED game is looking to go on hiatus around then

plenty of time to reacquaint myself with Werewolf intricates and drum up some solid character ideas 😄

[mighty zephyr]

I wanna make a Red Talon and I am stuck thinking of a concept

[high current]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3GgqugxjYA

[velvet sparrow]

Oh no

I'm starting to get excited

[vast blaze]

Do you lot have any ideas for what an Anda might be doing outside of their tribe

Trying to concoct one for a Dark Ages game and I can't think of any real reason beyond "disgraced and exiled" or "left to find someone"

...tbh I might just make them a different clan entirely rather than an Anda

[mighty zephyr]

What is an Anda

[vast blaze]

Dark Ages bloodline

Mongolian vampires

They're an offshoot of the Gangrels, they're viewed as guardians and protectors of the Mongolian tribes they call family

[vast blaze]

This is set in 900ish AD, long before the Mongol Empire was that large

My issue is like

Anda are INTRINSICALLY tied to their tribes, being guardians and protectors of them

And I'm struggling to find a convincing reason for why one would just up and leave to head off to Denmark and fuck around with the Vikings instead of sticking around and doing his job

Like I said, I might just say that he was Embraced by a foreign vampire of a different clan and set out to figure out what the fuck he is

[mighty zephyr]

I think if you're struggling to justify a specific ethnic diaspora in a very specific game you might just wanna play someone local and make it easier on everyone

[vast blaze]

...yeah

[mighty zephyr]

(Also remember that Viking was a job, not a society)

Finally reading the TMR 20 book and I am completely stunlocked by this bit of lore that the Silk Road collapsed sometime in 1100 ce

and I am absolutely struggling to find any mention of that whatsoever historically

[craggy coyote]

???

wild

[mighty zephyr]

https://i.imgur.com/ffAjiBr.png

brother the silk road was fine what are you talking about

[limpid shoal]

Didn't the silk road become defunct around the 1600s????

[mighty zephyr]

YEAH

I'm trying to figure out what they're possibly talking about

like there was minor disruptions to trade due to Chinese instability but that didn't break the road

[limpid shoal]

Yea I'm going....what fall?>

[steel agate]

World of Darkness timeline divergences babyyyyyyyyy

[vast blaze]

Can you imagine the ramifications the collapse of the Silk Road in 1100 would have had

And they just casually say that shit like there's nothing wrong with it at all lmao

[fathom haven]

Gods yeah I forgot how damn weird the timelines are for World of Darkness

[craggy coyote]

this doesn't feel like a justified point of diverance to me though because wod history intentionally mirrors our own with more players behind the scenes and changes being smaller.

imo this is just the authors not knowing history because 300-500 years of less trade is not a small historical change

[mighty zephyr]

I think this is just incorrect history

[fathom haven]

I mean just in general

Also what book is that from

[fathom haven]

Oof, damn

[nimble gale]

teh tal'mahe'rah books do traditionally have a habit of being a little shit

At least this one has fairly playable rules in it (Even though a good chunk of the books is mage rules???)

[rapid glacier]

@mighty zephyr still looking for Red Talon inspirations?

I don’t know the context of this person but they will burn down a Wal Mart

[fathom haven]

THAT'S SO FUCKIN FUNNY

This was the picture I used for my current lancer pilot for a while

[rapid glacier]

I don’t even remember where I got it from, I just saw it one day browsing discords and said ‘Red Talon’, then saved it

[fathom haven]

I think it'd also work for a Mongolian Shadow Lord or a Mongolian Silent Strider

[strong bronze]

do changelings also have like

a half supernatural person that helps then interact with the normal world better

garou have the kin,vampires have ghouls,mages have sleppwalkers

[patent stirrup]

Not realy in C:tD at least

[marble sorrel]

Two!

They've got Kinain, which are people with a hint of fae magic.

They don't have the soul of a fae but might be the child of one.

They can't harvest glamour but naturally regenerate it.

As their soul is much more 'fey and human blended together' than 'fae soul in human body'

A Kinain is closer to the garou kinfolk than ghouls.

But notably: Do not underestimate them. Of all the half-x splats, Kinain are perhaps the scariest if they want to push for it.

They've got a very small tank of glamour but it regens without work over time.

And are not limited in how deeply they can learn an art.

A ghoul can learn many disciplines but only at 1 dot without some real high quality blood.

A Kinain might only know One Art but he can be just as good at it as a full Changeling.

The other sort are closer to ghouls, but without the inbuilt abuse aspect.

[limpid shoal]

That's terrifying

[marble sorrel]

Enchanted, people who've been imbued with fae magic.

Temporary Enchantment makes one immune to The Mists/Lets one see Chimerical stuff.

Which is nice but minor. Mostly just means your friend won't forget you're a fairy.

It lasts for as long as the glamour lasts in your body but naturally decays.

They can activate treasures with that glamour but it's a limited pool and it's constantly draining

So using a fae sword is actively shortening the time they'll remain aware of what's going on.

The two main uses for Enchanted are A) Helping a friend understand what the fuck is going on in your life becuase the average guy won't accept 'Had to skip work to slay a dragon'. B) Making cannon fodder who can see the True Face of the enemy fae you want shot with a normal gun.

Enchanted are much worse than ghouls. They get no supernatural durability or tricks without treasures.

They can just see chimerical stuff/ignore the Mists.

They also have no inherant link to the person who gave them the glamour.

So if you're an asshole fae trying the cannon fodder option, you have to convince them the normal way.

So I dunno, get 5 teenagers with attitude and tell them they need to go beat up a witch.

The bigger, much scarier version of Enchantment is much, much meaner.

The Ritaul of Parted Mists allows a fae to spend a catastrophic amount of glamour to make a semi-permanent enchantment of a human.

Like for context: It requires spending more glamour than the average changeling can actually hold, requiring them to have stored dross (Stabilized glamour in a physical object) to do it.

This is 'oh yeah, I spent months getting this ready'

On the other hand: Enchanted done this way are much, much more notable. The magic doesn't passively fade (Though it doesn't restock either, so the tank is still emptying as they spend it) and they get Bestowments.

Bestowment are blessings that allow one to make an Enchanted for a Specific Role.

You pick a specific attribute and increase it by 1 passively.

The enchanted can spend 1 glamour from their tank when they would roll that stat and get 5 automatic successes beyond the roll.

(This includes soak/damage rolls for stamina/strength)

This is your Achilles or your Cinderella.

Someone who's been blessed and is going to do a Big Thing.

The issue there is...if a person blessed with the Ritual of Parted Mists ever runs out of glamour, the pain of being torn away from the fey realm takes part of their soul with it.

They'll never entirely be the same.

...and cold iron destroys points of glamour on touch.

It's not just 'can you not spend your last point'

Others can destroy the enchantment.

And kill part of your friend's soul

They automatically jump in Banality and can never be Enchanted again.

They are forever lost to the Dreaming.

[marble sorrel]

Sorry for the wall of text, hope this helps.

[worthy sundial]

onyx path did this w/ curseborne

[fathom haven]

Would FNAF be considered Wraith?

[worthy sundial]

it depends on who ur playing

[fathom haven]

With perhaps William Afton being a Bane Mummy

[worthy sundial]

if ur the guard, thats a classic hunter game

[fathom haven]

Oh that's true

https://tenor.com/view/fnaf-ucn-camera-five-nights-at-freddys-runwithluna-gif-25298485

The Hunter taking the security guard position, doing a bump and chugging an energy drink before speed running the night

[strong bronze]

No,thank you

[clear delta]

https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/1490341-diabolists-bene-ashmedai-2e-conversion

Nice, love finding bene ashmedai and goetia stuff

Can use it for summoning fear goetia and mix in Magnus Archives stuff

[dense vault]

God I could absolutely see Fazbear being owned by Pentex. Or vice versa

[fathom haven]

"we're using child ghosts to power our animatronics"

Sounds like a very Pentex thing yeah

[rapid glacier]

I choose to believe they are separate but Pentex absolutely ripped off the idea with a bootleg or knockoff Freddie Fazbears

[fathom haven]

Fazbear frights is a Black Spiral Dancer project

Unrelated, is it bad that I think I prefer VTR Nosferatu to VTM Nosferatu

I think a lot of it is the Discipline of

https://tenor.com/view/eric-andre-eric-andre-eric-andre-show-nightmare-gif-25187817

[mighty zephyr]

Nightmare rules

[fathom haven]

It slaps so hard

[vast blaze]

Can revenants Awaken?

[mighty zephyr]

As of most recent writing on the subject, yes except their Avatar is in a constant state of decay and can be permanatly lost

[vast blaze]

Right

There any steps they can take to counteract it?

[mighty zephyr]

High humanity

Don't get blood bonded

I also wouldn't recommend playing one in any collaborative game

[vast blaze]

Why's that?

[marble sorrel]

All of the 'Weird Human' subvariants can awaken.

As they're still human

Kinfolk, Kinain etc

[mighty zephyr]

Because you're already a Mage and adding an additional Thing on top of it is an XP sink on top of a massively XP hungry splat and adding a sub-splat onto a splat is very demanding of attention and ST balancing

[vast blaze]

True

Probably best as an NPC

[mighty zephyr]

Ye

[marble sorrel]

I've played a Kinain mage before. It mostly worked as I had a single, specific art I focused on and didn't really expand past that.

So it was more 'I am a mage with a Specific Weird Trick'

Than 'I am trying to do both at once to a major degree'

[strong bronze]

If Bowie was a supernatural

Would you put him as a changeling or as a CoE mage or what

[fathom haven]

Changeling

Specifically a Sidhe

[strong bronze]

How superhumanly fast/strong do you think a mage could make himself before paradox starts being a problem

[mighty zephyr]

anything above 5 dots results in Permanant Paradox

[strong bronze]

....i dont know how but

Somehow I constantly forget that WoD is not just a setting

It indeed a series of games with hard stats for these things

[nimble gale]

This is generally the way to do it, yeah. A Kinfolk Mage might pick up one or two Rites but generally just does Mage THings and has A Trick Or Two when ddealing with fera-related stuff, etc. A Ghoul Mage is a mage with a dot of potence

[marble sorrel]

Adding 'can soak lethal' from being a ghoul is nice

[nimble gale]

true

the problem of course is that any subsplat-mage is going to have your avatar pulled in certain directions, which is mostly plot relevant but can be an issue if you're trying to, say, not fall into a form of quiet

I don't think that's been rules in any edition other than maybe jhor for ghouls but it's how I've always run it

[velvet sparrow]

I think ghouling has rules for stripping away your Avatar background and potentially permanently removing your being a Mage

[mighty zephyr]

It does but its inconsistent

[marble sorrel]

Non-ghouls are generally safer as they're in thier natural state

[nimble gale]

yeah

[mighty zephyr]

I do think it should be a binary choice and embracing one means rejecting the other though

[nimble gale]

whcih brings the question of 'is a revenant safe from ghouly de-avataring becuase that is their natural state', which the rules have been unclear to inconsistent on as well

[marble sorrel]

I'd lean towards yes because unlike a ghoul they can't stop being a revenent

[mighty zephyr]

Guide to the black hand has explicit rules about revenant mages

For some reason

[marble sorrel]

It would be suicidal for an Avatar to awaken a Revanent if their baduc nature shredded it etc. A ghoul can just stop drinking the red juice at least

[mighty zephyr]

Though iirc it doesnt actually address being able to not go on seekings that m20 says you cant do

[nimble gale]

the revenant mages in the TMR books use the pillars system, not spheres iirc, which may? have something to do with it?

[mighty zephyr]

It shouldnt, as the sphere system is kinda just an arbitrary political designation and not exactly metaphysically enforced

[vast blaze]

Suppose it's more an "ask the GM" sort of situation

[velvet sparrow]

Oh is it?

I thought it was more of a... better understanding of how it works thing

[high current]

no its very much a 'this is how we choose to interpret it' thing

hence why Dark Ages Mage and Sorcerer's Crusade(Renaissance) have different things going on

like, spheres lets more mages do more kinds of things, but its very much a choice thing

theoretically one could run an orphan game and never come into contact with the traditions or technocrats and figure out some other mechanic to measure magical abiliy

[mighty zephyr]

Even in the current day most Tradition mages only use spheres due to it being useful hermetic shorthand

[high current]

yeah iirc pre-M20 some tradition books gave alternate names for spheres or something?

[fathom haven]

Mage boggles my mind

[mighty zephyr]

Its honestly very simple when its explained without tangential and mostly unimportant details

[fathom haven]

Maybe it's just that it doesn't interest me as much as the other splats

[high current]

the hardest part imo is recognizing that you can in fact just Make Shit Up instead of strictly sticking to stuff the book tells you is possible

[velvet sparrow]

Many things are

[fathom haven]

Idk, I just find literally every other splat (besides Demon, haven't looked at it) 100x more interesting

[mighty zephyr]

Maybe you just dont vibe with it

It does happen

But I will say that mage fans have a habit of inflating Mage's complexity in order to make it seem like its a more intellectual game than it is

[fathom haven]

Extremely fair, and yeah, I don't really vibe with it because like

You're just a guy with magic?

Idk, I've always had a thing about wanting to be more than human

[mighty zephyr]

I mean every splat is just a guy with magic at the end of the day

[fathom haven]

Not necessarily, I mean that you can become more than the human form, as with Garou, Kindred, and Changelings

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah but, counterpoint, those are all just guys with magic

The elevation of the human form, if used at all, is just a guy with a normal guy body using magic to not be a guy

[fathom haven]

Can mages change their form at all?

I imagine so but like

[high current]

yes, with Life magic

basically anything another splat can do, Mages can theoretically do, or at least approximate

[fathom haven]

So I could just

Completely change my human form into a not human form

[high current]

yes

[mighty zephyr]

Yes, but at risk of exploding

Or being dispelled

[high current]

you can in fact turn yourself into stone, or a spirit, or anything else really

[fathom haven]

Hmm

[high current]

but yeah paradox says 'yeah idk about that bud'

[fathom haven]

I think I'll stick with my nosferatu, Tzimisce, Garou, and Trolls for now lol, the thought of paradox is

Terrifying

[high current]

paradox is basically just the masquerade except magical

and like, with more immediate repercussions

[strong bronze]

instead of some guy in a trenchcoat kikcing down your door at 3 am and shooting you with buckshot

you just pop a vein in your brain

[high current]

you can't murder your way out of taking paradox after it happens

[fathom haven]

I think I could maneuver the Masquerade easier?

[mighty zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/haaugh-gif-25992068

[fathom haven]

https://tenor.com/view/aneurysm-hhhhomeboyyyy-kings-dark-tidings-saga-by-kel-kade-reaperleviathan-head-explode-gif-21578105

[fathom haven]

HA

[mighty zephyr]

Pictured: Paradox

[strong bronze]

i mean,yeah

if there isnt anyone that saw you drink a guy,there isnt a masquerade spirit thats going to flash a tiny sun at you. its just people upholding a set of rules.

if you decide to throw a fireball from nothing the universe itself is just going to kick you in the kidney

[high current]

tl;dr of how paradox works, if you cast a spell that is obviously magical, you gain points of paradox based on the sphere rating of the spell, more if it was witnessed by a sleeper who doesnt believe the kind of magic you're doing(by like 2 points i think)

theoretically you can cleanse paradox with Prime iirc?

[limpid shoal]

Prime 5 off the top of my head

[high current]

but if you have 5+ or gain 5+ at once, the ST is entitled to go 'lol, lmao', roll your paradox score as a dice pool, and pop a blood vessel/otherwise fuck you up based on how many successes they get

[fathom haven]

I think I prefer VTR vamps, the disciplines seem way more useful, and it'd be less likely to get caught doing things?

[high current]

in oMage, at least; nMage 2e Paradox is more fun instead of building up and then exploding, it just makes your spells go wonky

[spice abyss]

I like Awakening's Paradox in theory.

2e's in practice is hard to make come up if your players play it safe.

[mighty zephyr]

Awakening paradox is so feeble

[spice abyss]

1e Paradox has hands.

2e Paradox does not.

[strong bronze]

depends on ✨ context ✨

[clear delta]

"Thinking gamer's game"

[strong bronze]

anything a discipline can do,magic can do a thousand times better

with a hundred caveats to offset things

[high current]

Vampire Disciplines, even Elder Bullshit™ iirc, is like, Mage Spheres at 2-3 dots usually

[mighty zephyr]

Lmao no

[clear delta]

Pity
THe systems of reaching is good and thematic

[high current]

usually being the key word

[mighty zephyr]

Oh yeah no its great when it works

It just is so easy for players to not engage with it

[clear delta]

I vibe a lot with mage the awakening having Truth, though subject to interpretation, methods and models
So I'm sad it's overshadowed by ascension

You can get a paradoxless transformation into a nonhuman throguh legacies but new mage is very much against transhumanism

[mighty zephyr]

I also think Awakening is better tbh

[fathom haven]

Oh I mean over VTM disciplines

[strong bronze]

Oh fair

[limpid shoal]

I wish I had a chance to get in to Awakening

[fathom haven]

See that's the thing too, if I'm using disciplines, I don't have to risk exploding my brain

[high current]

ive played in like 2 Awakening games ever, and both of them ended way too quickly first one i cant remember if we ever even had a first session before the GM vanished on us, second one the GM didn't actually read the whole book and was doing a lot of on-the-fly vibes-based homebrew for how things worked instead of using the mechanics in the book that we were expecting to play with, and when i confronted him about it after like 4 sessions(the last being the main one where this became evident) he killed the game and stopped talking to me for a while

(the key thing being, we found out in the 4th session that the entire game up to that point had taken place inside a comatose Sleeper's Oneiros, and this was mostly because the Sleeper became aware of us; mechanically this would have meant that every spell was a Paradox risk, but since he hadnt read that part of the book ig he was 'deciding randomly whether or not a spell worked', we never saw any dice being rolled to determine the randomness here so afaik it was just purely vibes/how he felt about stuff)

[mighty zephyr]

I dont think that would count as a witness?

[radiant marsh]

I do like how they altered the Atlantis stuff in 2e

[clear delta]

"Turns out, racist occultists like Atlantis"

[radiant marsh]

"These ruins make no sense because they're the remnants of the Supernal ideal of a city that no longer exists. So they're only actually present some of the time and if you actually try and carbon-date an artifact, you're going to get simultaneously "Last Week" and "Date Out of Range because too old"

[clear delta]

One ooc reason to deemphasize atlantis as a term

[radiant marsh]

But yes. Therein lies the rub. Trying to use any 'historical' basis for a lost civilization rapidly leads to the realization that pretty much all of it comes from Racist assholes being Racist for Racist reasons.

[steel agate]

it's still pretty funny how 1e's core rulebook made such a fuss about Atlantis that WW had to release a whole separate book to explain to players what you're actually expected to do in the game

[radiant marsh]

1e mage core was...

Not good.

TBF, MOST of the core 1e stuff wasn't good

Because with a lot of it they were so adamant at not giving you a metaplot that they neglected to actually tell players what they were supposed to be doing.

Though funny thing about lost continents and suchlike. The original idea of 'Lemuria' only exists because continental drift wasn't an understood thing yet

This was like the 1840s

IIRC

[mighty zephyr]

Trying to do any actual occultist shit leads to racism tbh

[radiant marsh]

So why are there Lemurs in Madagascar and Lemur fossils in India?

There must have been a lost landmass linking the two

Hence, Lemuria

But yes

Blame the Theosophists for everything

They deserve it.

[fathom haven]

Sometimes I read something in the World of Darkness books and it just kind of psychic stuns me for a sec

Reading through CTD20, and I'm reading up on Thallians (because I fuckin love Ogres), and I get whiplash (again) from reading that a bunch of them flooded into the world again because of 9/11

[marble sorrel]

Iki doing occultist research for naming MOI Mechs: "OH GOD IT'S RACISTS ALL THE WAY DOWN"

[nimble gale]

9/11 was basically the moon landing but in reverse

[fathom haven]

Essentially yeah

But fr, how cool are Ogres, one of my favorite things to play in an evil WOD campaign

[mighty zephyr]

hilarious mage discovery

there is no rules for dropping a spell willingly

[mighty zephyr]

So yeah, ascension seems to work under an insane invisible duration system in a way like

an MMO?

Where a spell gets it's duration refreshed per turn if you concentrate on it, and there's nothing you can really do to stop it early besides doing something else entirely

[marble sorrel]

You cast it, take responcibility for your actions. 😛

[mighty zephyr]

I call this insane because this is a horrible extrapolation based on the only evident language in the game

there is no actual rules for

1. How do you drop a spell
2. How quickly does a spell's effects fade once ended
3. How does concentrating on a spell actually work

Cuz like, this is based off the language of "When a spell's duration is over, you may instead make it a concentrated effect"

Because there is no language about saying you can drop a concentrate effect, we must assume that a concentrated effect has the only duration available to it, 1 turn

[vast blaze]

...huh

That's rather silly innit

[vast blaze]

Do you think this is where White Wolf got the idea for the Burgermen from

[grave gulch]

i'm scared

[patent stirrup]

That's White Wolf. a quarter of the rules contradict themselfs, and a quarter of the rules referenced don't exist in the book or are not where the reference says they are if the reference even gives you something other then Page xx.

Voy the Nelson Boy ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) Because there is no language about saying you can drop a concentrate effect, we must assume that a…

[craggy coyote]

That or just... "mayor mcheese's citizens but evil"

[heady kestrel]

can I just say

the fact The Knights Of Saint George know to call themselves The Knights Of Saintn George has wild implications about How Much They Know About Mages

(Chronicles Of Darkness Posting)

like

that implies they know about Mage Atlantean Legends

calling yourself a Dragonslayer because you Hunt Wizards relies on So Much Context a normal Hunter Org probably wouldn't have

if they hunted beasts or something it would make sense

but "Mages are gifted their birthright by the dragons" is not something a hunter would normally know

[high current]

to be fair, capital-M Mages don't get their powers from dragons? and the Knights of Saint George are focused on Witches, which are purely an antagonist faction intended to serve as a manageable mage-y threat for Hunters

[craggy coyote]

quick check: Saint George's thing is "slay the dragon" in irl mythos so it makes sense they'd adapt an element of that here yeah?

that's the joke? I am not too familiar with his legend

[heady kestrel]

well capital M Mages getting their powers from dragons is like

a mage legend in the 1e corebook
which is why it sticks out to me

like "atlantis was a dragon graveyard and when the dragons left they gave their legacy to humanity and that is where mages come from" was... A Thing The Silver Ladder Priests Say at minimum

[heady kestrel]

well yeah

I am saying that comparing mages to dragons touches on a weird bit of mage lore in a way that implies they know it

[craggy coyote]

I mean I kinda figure that's the joke/point

[high current]

my point is its less 'THIS ORDER KNOWS THE DEEP DARK TRUTH OF MAGE SOCIETY' and more 'theyre basing themselves off the mythology of saint george, who famously killed a dragon, and frame the shit they hunt that way for morale and consistency'

[heady kestrel]

I think it would be more interesting if they did it for a reason but I suppose "they just do that at semi random because that is the saint they chose" is valid I guess

I just thought I noticed something cool

[hybrid dock]

yeah but admittedly the dragon thing is on point

and it is fun to give weird orders like this weird amounts of knowledge

[mighty zephyr]

they aren't being compared to dragons because they're mages they're being compared to dragons cuz they're colonizers in this essay i will

[hybrid dock]

same thing-

[heady kestrel]

there is a lot to comparing mages to dragons allegorically! including the colonizers bit

they horde information and wealth
They dominate whichever world they choose to inhabit
They are creatures of fire and poison and taint(Paradox)

[mighty zephyr]

oh yeah I know, it's one of my favorite bits

[heady kestrel]

plus
Its not unprecedented for mage hunting conspiracies to know Mage Lore

Aegis Kai Doru have like
a whole thing

[vast blaze]

Are Demons any fun?

Joined a cross-splat game and I'm considering what I wanna play as, kinda thinking I might wanna branch out and make a Demon since I've never fooled around with em before

[mighty zephyr]

They probably aren't great for Crossover

[nimble gale]

owod or nwod/cwod?

[vast blaze]

OWoD

[vast blaze]

Guessing a lot of their mechanics conflict with other splats

[mighty zephyr]

It's more "You will vastly skew the narrative by your inherent existence and the scope and scale of your mechanics"

[marble sorrel]

OWoD demon is pretty crossover happy but notable doesn't have a 20th edition

[vast blaze]

Mmm, true

I'll ask the ST if he's fine with me introducing Lore Implications

And narrative skewing

[nimble gale]

eh, they're no more high-scope IME than changeling or mage can be

[marble sorrel]

A big part of demon after all is 'No demon has the full picture any more'

[strong bronze]

first roll of the hunter game:everyone on a cafe eats food lightly enchanted

Just trying to make everyone feel lighter and less unhappy for a bit

with the exception of one person who botched their willpower roll so hard she is just

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939308636046520394/1246639469730463804/Harmonyloop.gif

[lucid cape]

Hello people, coming here to ask about forsaken again, anyone knows what to do when there is a newly made werewolf in the player's pack territory? Besides the obvious finding them, what is like the recommended course of action after finding them?

[mighty zephyr]

Pitch them your pack and your tribe

[lucid cape]

Ok, making sure, was just under the impression that the pack is strickly player wolves

[clear delta]

What is this image from?

[mighty zephyr]

Splatoon

[clear delta]

thanks

cute

[spice abyss]

Bite them to make tracking them easier if they're about to undergo the First Change
Keep an eye on what other packs are trying to hit them up.
Keep an eye on what spirits are trying to mess with them.
Try to clean up after their First Change if someone else hasn't already.

[lucid cape]

So... can one invite them to the pack?

[spice abyss]

You'd have to make a really compelling pitch to a pack to have them go "I am fine with an independent and inexperienced werewolf on my territory with no guidance."

[mighty zephyr]

Generally a new werewolf is being gang stalked and theres probably an open debate on if they want to recruit them or not

[spice abyss]

Best case scenario is that the new guy causes absolutely no problems (This is a fantasy)

Worst case is that he finds a Wound.

[lucid cape]

So they're most likely getting in wether they like it or not

?

[clear delta]

The guy is probably taken into the pack is made to move
Maybe to another pack, maybe just thrown out

Either way, the apck defends the ownership of its territory

[spice abyss]

Either he gets brought into the pack, or he gets violently removed from the territory.

Or if the pack wants a hands off approach, they teach him about being an Uratha.

[lucid cape]

Hmm hmm

[mighty zephyr]

I think violence only happens if the person is belligerent

[spice abyss]

Depends on the pack and the new wolf.

[mighty zephyr]

Most packs would be remiss but understanding if the person learns about wolfing and sets out on their own

Just not on their turf

[lucid cape]

I see

[spice abyss]

You have a spiritual landscape to maintain, you don't need another independent actor messing that up.

There's also the fact that spirits can and will go "A werewolf that's alone you say?"

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah most would make it clear going out alone is a death sentence

But only outliers would force someone into a pack or kill them just because

[spice abyss]

You also don't want them going to the Pure or a Bale Hound.

[lucid cape]

Alright...

Another question, to those who has played or run forsaken, how did yalls packs start? Inherited it or made your own?

[mighty zephyr]

The one game I ran had a few people in town be a pack and decide to invite the newcomer

[high current]

the games ive run have usually been a case of 'this area currently claimed in parts by 4-6 different packs is decently big, and all of the packs involved have younger members who have shown they're capable, lets put them together and give them the area as their new territory'

but thats cause i usually end up having mixed groups tribe-wise

think the only time ive been a player in a wtf game, we technically started the pack on our own because the area we picked didnt have a werewolf presence, but we had a handful neighboring packs, which some PCs had Mentors in

[clear delta]

@hybrid dock so there's a funny thing in magnus archives, involving monsters that want fear
Plumber tgat doesn't pay attention to anything beyond work, makes noncommittal small talk and doesn't know what flensing means gets called to a factory in the middle of nowhere
Megan, a puppet wearing human skin, tries to creep him out while he unclogs the drain
He decides the blood must be chemicals, removes the fat abd flesh blocking it, and thinks her talk of liking flensing and doing it to him is about making sculptures
She's bewildered as he leaves, which he chalks up to being grossed by the drain and embarrassed about it
She calls him next day, wearing a bright clown outfit, abd grabs him to force to look at horrible scenes of flensing people impossibly alive at the hands of ouppets

[hybrid dock]

Oh yea I know magnus archives

God that one’s really fucking silly

[clear delta]

You know, saw an interesting idea that chambers in the dream could be repressed traumatic memories, and by assimilating them into lairs beasts salvage and put them in a coherent acceptable whole

A sort of terraforming and garbage collection

[spice abyss]

Remove the repressed part and yep that's chambers

[clear delta]

Repressed since mortals tend to see some fucked up supernatural stuff and repress it
So grabbing them into lairs basically assimilates them into archetypes and stories that make sense

[mighty zephyr]

I wonder how I can make a Zoomer Red Talon

[fathom haven]

May I provide the idea of a kid being raised in an eco-terrorist/nature cult commune

[mighty zephyr]

That's just A Garou Raised in a Caern

[fathom haven]

It's a good mirror for it, but in this case, their first change could have the cover up of a mass cult suicide, relatively easy to be found by Red Talons

[mighty zephyr]

I feel like this doesn't aid in the concept of a super zoomer RT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9VbxSpL4Og

Thinking like these assholes

[fathom haven]

May I offer, a wolf from a tik tok famous wildlife sanctuary

[mighty zephyr]

Oh he's probably gonna be homid

we already have a lupus in the group and I don't wanna take away her specialness from her

[fathom haven]

In that case, an employee of said sanctuary

[mighty zephyr]

We're gonna be in the middle of the desert in Utah, as far as I am aware

[fathom haven]

Hmmmm

[strong bronze]

I dont either,what is flensing

[mighty zephyr]

Removal of the skin

[strong bronze]

oh

thats like the third word i learn for that

[mighty zephyr]

The specific mechanism by which you remove the skin usually informs the word used

[fathom haven]

I made my first official Ventrue today

He looks like if GTA Vice City was a vampire

[high current]

That does indeed sound like a Ventrue

[fathom haven]

Something about Hawaiian shirts just

Peak character design for me

[clear delta]

Also removing the fat

[vast blaze]

Reading through DtF now

Fuck I think this might be my new favorite splat

[fathom haven]

Me but with Promethean

[high current]

Demon the Fallen fucks

[fathom haven]

I need to read into it

[high current]

but it suffers from kind of having a take on the cosmology that conflicts with most of the other splats

(granted, the whole 'multiple layers to reality' thing talked about in the fiction at the start lets other splats' origin myths and takes on the cosmology still work, but a lot of people ignore that bit because its not explained well and demon's origin story doesn't gel well with the existence of the triat or gaia or the fae etc iirc)

[mighty zephyr]

I dont think the layers bit really works to explain anything tbh

[vast blaze]

Yeah

[high current]

i assume the intent was meant to be 'the triat fucking around until the point where the wyrm goes nuts is another interpretation of the war between the angels' or something, but idk

obv vampire lore doesnt give a shit cause demon lore still has caine killing abel and all that which is the important bit

[mighty zephyr]

The problem is that it does just kinda say nothing ultimately

"Every creation myth is true except in the game where it matters where its just God"

[craggy coyote]

"we have taken our cosmology and given it a definitive answer for an entire game line that crosses over with other game lines which rely on an intentional ambiguity of the cosmology. why are the other lines upset about this?"

[hybrid dock]

For me the layers bit never did anything to explain many other cosmologies

Though it did work to reconcile evolution and creationism both being true in the setting

I have complicated feelings about demon.

I love demon so much in isolation.

It just doesn’t fit into greater WoD. But I love it so much.

[mighty zephyr]

I dont think it actually reconciles evolution with creationism

Because either god didnt make reality and thus is not actually the god of genesis, or god did make reality with Adam and eve and Cain and Abel and Lilith and creationism is real

[hybrid dock]

I mean it’s both no?

On one layer god designed Adam and Eve which are metaphors for all humanity

[mighty zephyr]

With the layer thing, they can't be true simultaneously on one layer

[hybrid dock]

On another layer humanity came to be (through some manner of predestination) via evolution

In the context of demon god created humanity but what that means varies depending on the layer, either it’s via evolutionary design, snap of fingers creation, inspiration, etc

It works specifically for demon itself rather than explaining other splats

It’s pretty poor at reconciling demon with other splats or contexts.

It’s a neat detail for ancient demonic relics or for explaining forgotten histories or how there can be ancient enochian temples the size of cities hidden in crevices in creation

Doesn’t really work for like, the wyrm or the weaver.

I liked the bit about one demonic relic being a math equation/bullet that was a layered piece of the sword of Michael. That was cool

[mighty zephyr]

Yes but thats in practice a pointless distinction, right?

Since Demon largely then operates with the idea that the garden of eden fell, Cain did the first murder, and at no point further interrogated the concept

[hybrid dock]

Idk

Yeah maybe they should have done more with it

I don’t view it as a pointless distinction just wasted opportunity

[mighty zephyr]

Because if evolution mattered then Caine is like, a chimp by the time we have the sentience to commit an emotional murder

[hybrid dock]

Caine was a real dude on the book of genesis layer of reality

I guess it’s a wasted opportunity that these layers of reality don’t exist anymore

Cus they would have been cool

The attempt to make demon fit into WoD feels like the worst of both worlds, in the end

[mighty zephyr]

I am sorry if I am like, beating you up for the thing you like

The layer thing just sorta fails to me at its intended goal

[hybrid dock]

It’s all good

That’s…fair

It mostly only comes up in one cool magic item

I think cus they insisted on making layers not matter in the game

“This used to be a thing!”
“Is it still around?”
“No”

[mighty zephyr]

The thing i compare it to is the time prison comic in tails gets trolled

[hybrid dock]

Yeah

Yeah no fr

Like there’s 3 lores for dimensional travel in some way

They could have done something with layers

And then it just….doesnt do anything

There’s no layers

It only comes up with the bullet sword thing

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1ian18c/time_prison/

Because its like

"So does this meaningfully change how the world works?"

"No"

[hybrid dock]

I’ll agree that there’s a seriously missed opportunity

Cus damn it would be cool if you could go to the myth zone and fuck around there

[high current]

Y'know, in a roundabout way Demons layers thing does kind of work in nMage the Supernal is another layer, and you do magic by fucking with that layer to influence the Fallen world

[mighty zephyr]

Well New Mage has Abyssal Layers

Which do work in the mage context

And every splat has a specific extra dimension that is basically hell

[fathom haven]

I love Brujah so much, I want more vtm games so I can play as more Brujah

Celerity, Potence, and Presence my beloved

[vast blaze]

Stupid question, what class of armor does this look like it would be in Dark Ages

Cause it's just lamellar, but it's a lot of lamellar

[marble sorrel]

That's full Class V

[crimson horizon]

I have an Etherite Player with Obsession Monster Hunter. He's the current "Runt of the Litter" cabal wise, but if he went Marauder or got out of his rut he's going to be a massive fucking problem

He's currently trying to romance a Vampire NPC I have, she's friends with a Cabal Mentor Character who's a Sahajiya Diplomat to other supernaturals

[vast blaze]

...ah, yeah

Lol

Wait what edition of Dark Ages Vampire is that

[crimson horizon]

I think his first plan for a MH Weapon is either a Swax or Charge Blade

[vast blaze]

BASED

[crimson horizon]

Because Etherite Nonsense ofc

[vast blaze]

Though I feel a gunlance is more Etherite-ish somehow

[marble sorrel]

That's the V20 Dark Ages Companion.

[crimson horizon]

He's tryna figure out stuff with Phials

[crimson horizon]

Not wrong I can see it

DAV20 my beloved

[vast blaze]

It seems fun

Cooking a Mongolian fella for a Viking-focused game I joined

The idea is to explore the similarities between Mongolian and Norse culture

That, and I wanted an excuse to play as this fuck

[marble sorrel]

Our Dumbass as full Class 6 armour, which is useful if we want him to get gnawed on by a werewolf longer than the rest of us.

Aininur's running Masterwork Class 3, which has a 0 penalty and in her case is basicly Frodo Armour. XD

[vast blaze]

Jaysus

[marble sorrel]

The power of 'Oh shit, one of the party is resources 5, right'

Resources is good.

[crimson horizon]

Really want to grab Resources 6 myself in a Game. I am so normal and can be trusted with the Crucible of Thig

:]

[marble sorrel]

Resources is genuinely the reason she won her last fight. Turns out having the money to turn up to a Werewolf Brawl with a Masterwork Silver Blade is Very Useful.

'I'm a Get of Fenris, I'm going to start shit in this town with another Werewolf and not care if humans see!'

5 Mins Later

'I think I just got my ass kicked and forced to flee by a mortal...I'm not telling the rest of the Get about this'

[crimson horizon]

I have Resources 4 and my ST already lets me conjure up random doohickeys and bullshit out spells

Cannot imagine what crack cocaine fueled NONSENSE I could get away with as an Etherite with Resources 6

[marble sorrel]

Aininur needs it for components for her magic.

She's path of Spirit Manipulation

And that means she needs to get a lot of exotic things for making fetishes

As spirits care about the sort of object you shove them in.

And she's not trying to make the spirits hate her.

[fathom haven]

I have made my Toreador primogen for a future VTM campaign

It's Kesha

And not a Toreador who acts/seems like Kesha, it is straight up Kesha

[crimson horizon]

Toreador aren't real so those hips do in fact lie

Proof on why Toreador aren't real, whenever someone lies about their clan. What clan do they default to? That's right, Toreador

[nimble gale]

counterpoint, I had a toreador who lied about her clan and pretended to be a brujah

[fathom haven]

That's Shakira

[crimson horizon]

I forgor

[viscid stratus]

Session one of the new v5 game I'm running finally fired
-# the malkavian is trying to adopt a wight

-# starting on a high note

[fathom haven]

||FABIAN 😭 NOOOOOOOOO, MY BOY||

||I'm sobbing actual fuckin tears||

[velvet sparrow]

Ohhhh Bloodlines 2

||Yeah 😔||

[fathom haven]

I'm suffering

[fathom haven]

On a good note tho, I'm about to start the Benny DLC

I'm fuckin excited

[fathom haven]

I am .10 seconds in

I already forgot how much I love Benny

[fathom haven]

HE'S GOT A FUCKIN TRIBAL TATTOO

[high current]

my 🪙 🪙 , the Benny DLC is fine
it doesnt do as much as i was hoping it would do, as far as being different gameplay-wise, and the story mostly just sheds some light on Benny's history, which is cool but

[fathom haven]

I'm a sucker for the over the top jackass, so, so far, I'm enjoying myself

[high current]

im kinda hoping we get more in the Ysabella DLC, considering how she relates to the main plot compared to Benny(and also, because she was definitely doing some shit that Phyre can't)

oh, yeah, I like Benny as a character

I just wish there was more to it overall

[fathom haven]

The only difference for me is getting used to the movement

[high current]

yeah adjusting to soaring leap was my biggest hurdle

[fathom haven]

I'm so used to sprinting, jumping, gliding

[high current]

you can still spring and slide and all that, just no gliding

[fathom haven]

Also

I very much enjoy gun

[vast blaze]

Got a stupid idea

Offshoot of Protean called Brotean

Centered around being a frat bro

Why an offshoot of Protean? Cause it turns you into a party animal.

[fathom haven]

Hey look over here real quick?

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-tf2-sfm-team-fortress2-sourcefilmmaker-gif-18587844

That is a really funny idea tho

[vast blaze]

I'm unsure what it would do though

[fathom haven]

It works like presence, but only towards frat douches and rich ass holes

[vast blaze]

Eh, kinda boring

[fathom haven]

I mean

Yeah but like

It's also a joke discipline

[vast blaze]

True but I want it to be a good joke discipline

[clear delta]

You spawn beer

And can perform and survive stupid stunts

[lucid cape]

.

[spice abyss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1394100971704942673/1504477143042625556/image0.jpg?ex=6a072106&is=6a05cf86&hm=4354040fa90deddd6b300f0c686d4f9c059f5b01bc2ff4308052c12559e7bb06&

[fathom haven]

Gods, VTR Nosferatu are so broken

[hybrid dock]

I’m gonna get to play as one soon!

[fathom haven]

GOOOD GOOOOOD

Best clan

Might I suggest reading the book Nosferatu, the Beast that Haunts the Blood, it's got a good amount of player options for Nosferatu in there

[vast blaze]

Joined a Changeling chronicle

Oh my god these guys have hella sauce

[valid merlin]

Dreaming or Lost?

[vast blaze]

Dreaming

I'm considering a Clurichaun Juggalo

[fathom haven]

I LOVE CHANGELING

[nimble gale]

Clurichaun Juggalo

fuckin' miracles, man

[fathom haven]

Trolls and Ogres my beloveds

[vast blaze]

That, or a Hotline Miami-inspired redcap

[fathom haven]

THAT'S GENIUS

[vast blaze]

Not really? I feel Juggalo Clurichaun is more genius.

Did give me the idea of like

A redcap that slums it with the local Anarch population

Can pass themselves off as a vampire unsettlingly well, and besides other redcaps, these weird bloodsuckers are about the most familiar folks they can find around

Bunch of rabble-rousing ne'er-do-wells up to no good and being shitheads

[fathom haven]

As someone who loves Hotline Miami, Redcaps, and extreme violence along with cannibalism, it's genius to me

[nimble gale]

I'm a certified redcap enjoyer myself and I think that's a killer idea

(it si the exact opposite of my redcap lmao)

[fathom haven]

My favorite Redcap so far that I've made is a butcher, it's stereotypical and simple, but he was a lot of fun

[nimble gale]

my Redcap's a knight of House Liam who is eternallyq uesting in penitence for the sins of her past, cleaving close to chivalrous ideals such that she may never repeat the dark acts she committed before.

In her mortal life she's an EOD tech because bombs are spicy :D

(her sin is when she was a childling and just coming into being a redcap she ate the family dog and blames herself despite not knowing any better.)

[vast blaze]

My planned one's just an asshole

Yeah, sure, he'll espouse ideals of freedom and equality, and hell, he'll even stand by those ideals, but in realty? Half the reason goes after "the bad guys" is because less people will give him shit for it.

[fathom haven]

Ough, this is making me miss my troll so bad

[mighty zephyr]

You can always go onto Twitter to find another one

[nimble gale]

I also just really am amused by the idea of a redcap EOD tech who's EOD armor is, chimerically, a suit of like, all-covering Black Knight (TM) style armor.

[fathom haven]

Lmao

[fathom haven]

Today on "Playing a Nosferatu in a single player game of VTR bc my friend is a homie and runs it for me", I am currently being hunted by a large group of amateur hunters : D

So far I have taken down 7 out of the 20 that they have in this group

[spice abyss]

How amateur are these hunters?

[fathom haven]

A bunch of teens with melee weapons

Only one had a gun

Teens is more like

Early 20s

Damn auto correct, it's VTR not VTM

[fathom haven]

I need to play in a vampire game so bad, I'm so tired of running 😔

[steel agate]

my VTM game is resuming on Tuesday after a bit of a hiatus to onboard a new member. I'm very excited to see how we get bodied by Tremere bullshit with a second clan member onboard, and to continue watching our Caitiff have a horrible, no good, very bad night

[fathom haven]

https://tenor.com/view/good-morning-nosferatu-gif-24939291

If you guys ever have another open spot

Depending on the day and time

I would be more than willing to participate

[steel agate]

apparently our new member runs a coffee shop at the local university, and her retainer will be very mad if our Caitiff catches the magical disease from his patient and tracks it all over the coffeeshop 😄

[fathom haven]

Oof

Yeah that sounds bad

V5 I assume?

[steel agate]

I think we're capped at 4 players overall, but if a spot opens up I can put in a good word

and yeah, V5

[fathom haven]

That is very much appreciated my friend, and I'd have to learn V5, but I'm willing lol

Whatcha got in the gang so far?

[steel agate]

Our party currently has my Tremere (who is navigating the stormy waters between a Prince who is very much a traditionalist loyal to the Pyramid, and a Primogen who seems to be getting cut out of a lot of the loop lately allied towards House Carna), the aforementioned Caitiff who is currently trying to get our little plague victim over to his Tzimisce sire(?)'s mansion like an hour out of town, and a Malkavian who spends half her time handing out Helen of Troy-style proclamations of DOOM, and the other half being an absolute menace to the coterie at large.

Previous member was a Toreador who seemed more interested in her VTubing side job and her love-hate relationship with my Tremere than actually helping us directly with the goings-on in the campaign (this isn't a knock against that player, mind you; it's just funny thinking back on her time with us before she had to drop the game and realizing that was the main extent of her contribution to the overall story); as mentioned the new player starting with us soon is a second Tremere.

[fathom haven]

Interesting

This is not a knock but

Your coterie is a bunch of nerds

[steel agate]

lmao, we can't escape the rep

the Caitiff is literally the only one among us with anything resembling combat skills, and even that's more bent towards a high Fortitude discipline than anything else

[fathom haven]

I think if I ended up joining you guys, I would make a Nosferatu, get someone who can throw hands lol

[steel agate]

The Toreador, to her credit, did actually ghoul someone during one of her last sessions with us to help shore up the combat weakness; don't know if he's going to stay on going forward with her out of the game

also tbf we've only had two real moments where combat has broken out; my character's total contribution to said combats were 1. staying hidden in the forest outskirts so that if something went wrong, she could sneak out and report back to the Prince with what had happened out there, and 2. taking a good look at the 2 shambling zombies that had been summoned, going "I don't have time for this bullshit," and walking right past them to find the dumbass necromancer who summoned them.

who was in such a sorry state when she was discovered, that it was easy enough for me to just rip the magical necklace she was using to control said zombies off of her neck lol

(this necromancer being the plague victim I've been referencing; that necklace did some bad shit to her soul)

[fathom haven]

I love making characters who are built for combat, even if there isn't gonna be much of it, it leads to great characters who are awkward in other scenarios, playing security position even if they're just at a party, etc

For example, this Nosferatu could be great at being muscle, but bad at being a normal Nosferatu, sure he's strong and stealthy, but he can't use a computer to save his life, and maybe he's a bit too big and monsterous that a normal disguise won't work, he's gotta go with the big trench coat and some other clothes that's hard to find in his size

[mighty zephyr]

Personally I think a coterie is really fun when you aren't action focused

[fathom haven]

I love making action characters who wont see actual action, so I've got to use those skills in other ways

[crimson horizon]

doing devious social activities in Mage the Awakening

currently rallying the Silver Ladder and Free Council of my Local Consilium against the Seers of the Throne in Texas

and planning to do the same at a different Consilium

since both Consiliums have Anti-Seer Conflict Laws

[vast blaze]

Probably a stupid thought

D'you lot reckon Chainsaw Man took any inspiration from Demon: The Fallen

[clear delta]

Prolly not

[marble sorrel]

Okay. I think things have officially Hit The Fan in the dark ages game.

y'all have ~24 vampires and ~120 experienced mixed ghouls and revenants, all well equipped through Borys, plus Sera, plus your force multipliers. You're going into a fight against ~30 baali (most recently rembraced), ~20 black spiral dancers (a couple older ones but most younger), and ~400 untrained mortal pawns/rabid animals they're bringing as meatshields and distractions.

[mighty zephyr]

I do not think Fujimoto took any inspiration from an obscure ww rpg

[marble sorrel]

The GM has brought out the mass combat rules from Dark Ages. XD

[fathom haven]

The first unofficial Slipknot album was based on Werewolf the Apocalypse

[mighty zephyr]

Slipknot started as a WtA fanband yea

[fathom haven]

Just one of my favorite facts of all time

It's my girlfriend's favorite band and my favorite tabletop

[rapid glacier]

This explains a lot tbh but if you’d have asked me which numetal band was a WtA fanband I’d have sworn it was Korn

[fathom haven]

Any particular reason?

[rapid glacier]

Not really, I just liked Korn better growing up , clearly I should listen to more Slipknot

[fathom haven]

To be fair, it's only their first album that you can really hear it, Mate. Feed. Kill. Repeat.

[mighty zephyr]

It's more they explicly say "FUCK BONE GNAWERS, FUCK PENTEX"

[fathom haven]

Which is a shame, because Bone Gnawers fuckin rule

There's also another song on there where they mention Gaia specifically

[marble sorrel]

Accurate Depiction of our Dark Ages Prince. He's offloaded all the actual thinking to the rest of the group.

[nimble gale]

Legitimately something he did last session

[vast blaze]

BRING FORTH THE TREBUCHETS

[nimble gale]

No time for trebuchets, they're trying to stop a siege from happening in the first place. They've got an eight hour ride north to try to catch the enemy off before they encircle and invade a big local silver mine.

[fathom haven]

Don't need trebuchets if you've got potence and decent aim

(can you tell what my favorite discipline is)

[nimble gale]

obviously auspex, since it lets you aim better

[fathom haven]

I do appreciate auspex

It's like my

5th favorite?

Maybe 6th

[nimble gale]

but yeah it's gonna be fun. The aforementioned Sera is a friendly Shadow Lord Ragabash.

[fathom haven]

Friendly??

[nimble gale]

when baali are working with black spiral dancers

[fathom haven]

Ah, yeah that's fair as hell

[nimble gale]

and both shadow lords and ragabash are most likely to work with leeches

[fathom haven]

Very true

[nimble gale]

(she's also the girlfriend of one of the PCs but that has nothing to do with this)

[fathom haven]

Good for them, good for them 🙂‍↕️

[nimble gale]

the funny part is up until a couple nights ago in-game neither had any idea the other wa sa supernatural creature

the vampire has high enough road of heaven and ther ight comibnation of merits to pass as human even to wyrm senses

and didn't have auspex to check the werewolf's aura

[marble sorrel]

Aininur: Goes about driving off evil spirits, making charitable donations and working to protect humans from supernatural predators

She's kinda bad at being a vampire.

[nimble gale]

Krakow's cainites in general are not great at the whole 'oppressive vampire autocracy' thing, given they've got three high-dot road of heaven vampires--two of whom are in leadership positions, a history of princes who delegate the problems to people with long-term planning capabilities who are otherwise completely gokubrained, and a local cultural tradition of 'don't shit where you eat' lmao

unfortunately there is a tremere here, so the city is lost

[steel agate]

Montreal in my group’s V5 game is run by the Tremere after the Sabbat cleared out

tfw the city was lost before the campaign even started

[nimble gale]

such is the fate all tremere

[fathom haven]

I'm not saying the Tremere should all be nuked out of existence but

[nimble gale]

Other fun bits: the eldest Nosferatu int he city has been given the go-ahead by the prince to act as a secret police/inquisitorial force hunting down Baali. the local jewish Salubri is a curmudgeonly fuck who thinks everyone hates him for being a busybody and was very surprised they didn't let him die to baali poison. There's a Lasombra blacksmith who gets around making Rotschrek tests by using Obtenebration to hide the flames of his forge and forges based purely on sound and feel. He is very catholic and afraid that as a vampire who dabbles in dark powers he is damned to hell eternally, so the prince thinks he's a coward.

[steel agate]

Look, just let my Tremere have the chance to rip her sire a new one for Embracing her and then dumping her to the curb in the middle of the Week of Nightmares

[fathom haven]

Nosferatu stay winning

[steel agate]

Then you can do whatever with her

[fathom haven]

Your Tremere is the exception

[nimble gale]

oh and the knight templars are around

[mighty zephyr]

No tremere is an exception

[fathom haven]

There can be 1 exception

[velvet sparrow]

Wait doesn't fire explicitly cut through the shadows generated by Obtenebration?

Or is that just a modern day thing

[marble sorrel]

Direct contact does. This is more 'a barrier between his eyes and the fire'.

[mighty zephyr]

That exception can make new tremere

[steel agate]

She’s a 13th gen; all she’s making are thin-bloods if she were to Embrace someone

[mighty zephyr]

EVEN WORSE-

[steel agate]

She actually nearly did Embrace someone when she was staring down that necromancer I mentioned up-thread, but I froze up and left it to a die roll

Given that said necromancer was last seen getting loaded into the back of our Caitiff’s car with some vile plant growing out of her mouth, I think the dice made the right choice for me in the end there

[vast blaze]

Jesus

[marble sorrel]

Aininur got to use a skill that only exists in Dark Ages to work out the Baali/BSD plan, which is fun.

Seneschal!

Which is basicly the 'Hey, keeping shit running' skill

Seneschal
Seneschal is the ability to administer holdings, from households to kingdoms. It covers the knowledge of physical assets and their needs, from crop harvesting to the maintenance of buildings, and the social skills to coordinate others labor, resolve disputes, keep those who must be paid satisfied and so on. A skilled seneschal can evaluate the state of others' holdings based on personal experience and theoretical knowledge, too.

It's a little bit craft, a little bit social, a little bit finances and a little bit survival

But in this case she was the one who worked out that the small outlying town being attacked wasn't just a mine.

It was a silver mine.

The BSD/Baali realize that we know they exist and they're trying to cut off access to silver crossbow bolts as it doesn't matter how beefy a BSD is, he's gunna have a hard time dealing with a firing line of ghouls that can load and fire a crossbow nearly as fast as a bow and have access to silver bolts.

[nimble gale]

^

and the local ghouls are mostly Bratovich revenants, before the family fell into debauchery and incest (well, there's still some, they're nobility in 1242, but you get me)

[marble sorrel]

They're only 'Hapsburg' level inbred at this point.

But yes, fun to be able to leverage 'Aininur is from a merchant family' to her advantage.

[vast blaze]

Peak

God I wanna play Dark Ages someday

[nimble gale]

this is my exceptionally cold take: roads are more interesting than paths

[vast blaze]

Take so cold it's measured in Kelvin

[marble sorrel]

I suppose Commerce would have also worked well for Aininur's past and she does have a dot in it.

But I sorta figured Aininur was a bit more about 'making sure the trade lines are sorted' than 'Money counting' with the sort of things she did with her family.

She knows enough about money to maintain her wealth.

But she was really more about the infastructure of being a merchant in the things she was good at.

If that makes sense?

[nimble gale]

Yeah, makes sense

[marble sorrel]

As the Dark Ages has a lot more 'And then you organize a wagon train and it travels for 6 months' than 'I stand in the money room and fake values go up and down' like modern money stuff 😛

[nimble gale]

the Syndicate does not exist yet and you're even a century off from the foundation of the High Guld

Primal Utility isn't even a twinkle in a venetian's eye

[crimson horizon]

about to give my Nuclear Wizard Clanker of a Mage 4 more arms

i have Matter 4 Prime 4 and am going to make it everyone else's problem

[nimble gale]

you're a mage, i tdoesn't matter what spheres you have; you're going to make it everyone else's problem anyway

mage.png

[fathom haven]

Bleugh

Mages

You know what I can do though? With high levels of Potence, I can punch mages from a distance

Flick
It is a truism that “the great ones always make it look easy.” In the case of Flick, that saying stops being a truism and becomes literal truth. With this power, a master of Potence can make the slightest gesture — a wave, a snap of the fingers, the toss of a ball and have it unleash the full, devastating impact of a dead-on strike. The attack can come without warning, limiting the target’s ability to dodge or anticipate; this makes Flick one of the most feared applications of Potence.
System: Flick costs a point of blood, and requires a Dexterity + Brawl roll (difficulty 6). The vampire must also make some sort of gesture directing the blow.
What the gesture is remains up to the player — anything from a snap of the fingers to a blown kiss has
worked in the past. Flick‘s range is equal to the limit of the Kindred’s perception, and the blow struck does damage equal to
a normal punch (including all bonuses).

[craggy coyote]

NGL I'd love a level 4 power in V5 that lets you punch up to a range band of say medium or 5x potence rating. Even if it only does "Sup" that's still terrifying

Its already an old v20 power

Why it was elder only I've no idea

[fathom haven]

I imagine it would take ages to hone it to the point where you can snap your fingers and do the same damage as your punch with ALL your bonuses to said punch

[marble sorrel]

I had fun redesigning the Sword Magic Thaumaturgy for dark ages and Aininur might pick that up some time.

[nimble gale]

Aininur is the best worst sorcerer

also krakow has way too many blood magicians in it

[fathom haven]

Which of these look better?

[nimble gale]

I like that first one, I think

[fathom haven]

Also? Fallout 4 has a VTM inspired vamp mod?

[mighty zephyr]

To be fair, I think making it so "guns are an actual counter to a potence user" is the thought process

[craggy coyote]

You'd think, but any potence user probably has decent dex athletics, which is also the pool for throwing weapons

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah but that's a different dicepool

[fathom haven]

I know I sure don't

[craggy coyote]

Still as a power, I don't mind potence going into the "mid" range

pistols, not rifles

could make it expensive, rouse check per flick

[mighty zephyr]

I will be honest, range doesn't really super matter in like, most VtM scenarios

[fathom haven]

But my storyteller has always allowed me to use strength for throwing, as long as it's something huge and I'm not particularly worried about aiming

[craggy coyote]

Fair

Its a rule that never seemed to account for throwing cars in my eyes

[mighty zephyr]

Legacy has a dex problem

[craggy coyote]

Also true

V20/Legacy really made dex the combat stat

[fathom haven]

Normally that would offend me, as a strength build type of guy

HOWEVER

Dex fighter Toreador is REALLY fun

[mighty zephyr]

It kinda offends me as a person who looks at game design

[fathom haven]

Fair

[marble sorrel]

I do think there should be more 'you can use X or Y' yes

[fathom haven]

Agreed

[marble sorrel]

I kinda love how L5R 5e does it, where you pick which stat you use when fighting and they all provide 'can fight' in their own way but there are extra bonuses based on the specific stat chosen. You can sword with Fire or Earth but swording with earth is slower, more defensive combat that lets you take breaths or improve your defences while Fire swording is explosive, short duration combat focused on striking fast and hard and hoping the other guy isn't there to hit back.

Some sort of 'Pick a physical stat. They can all be used for basic dice pool but have an extra advantage if they're the way you're fighting' would be fun.

[strong bronze]

anyone played princess?

it sounds fun

[fathom haven]

I need to read up on it

[mighty zephyr]

I have tried

[valid merlin]

Complicated by the fact there's like four different versions of Princess now

[crimson horizon]

We can do that with Forces 2

[clear delta]

https://vexwerewolf.tumblr.com/post/801253957244731392/i-made-a-merit-for-mage-the-awakening

Vex Lancerfunny

I made a merit for Mage: The Awakening...

Tumblr · Nov 26, 2025, 5:35 AM

[patent talon]

Call out post in Mage Bluesky that contain actual hexes

[steel agate]

me when our new hackergirl Tremere has their session zero the day before our game and is like "it'll be fiiiinneee. you didnt come up at all. nope, no planning there" to me:

[fathom haven]

👀

[steel agate]

would that I could've sat in to listen to it, but my SOTW game was at the same time, and thus the priority

I will have to writhe in anticipation until the 'morrow lol

[fathom haven]

I'm sure it'll be fiiiiiine

[strong bronze]

although probably less in recent seasons

i heard some people say that "the boys is better inspiration for hunter stuff than supernatural"

[silver apex]

just running new blood and beyond for vampire v5 but combat rules are making my head spin still, page 124 of the big rulebook if im understanding it right is you roll against each others dice pools, e.g composure + firearms vs dex + athletics for firearms, roll to see if the attacker gets more successes than the enemy, if yes the difference + weapon bonus is applied as damage, if no nothing happens and it misses but no other penalty?

[marble sorrel]

Silly Nonsense - Both Totems and Changeling Titles are not splat-limited. So you could have someone of almost any splat who's also a Fae Knight or chosen by a spirit. Now, you'd need a hell of an explanation for it but I could see something like a Fianna who's done many solids for the local changelings earning a Fae Title, as they've already got cultural contact and work on similar problems. A totem for someone else...maybe Path of Spirit Manipulation Sorcerers, as they're very much already doing spiritualism but again: Would require rather an explanation.

[rapid glacier]

Yeah that’s it, unless your ST does something where they allow you to try and preempt and attack with your own, and winner’s attack actually ‘hits’

[silver apex]

thank you! glad i got it

[nimble gale]

THat it would, but that's a cool idea

[mighty zephyr]

Patrons arent splat limited but they do work differently for everyone else except Garou

[marble sorrel]

reading the old Fianna book and hit a line that made me go 'oof'

It's rare to see a book get another splat that well.

[clear delta]

Soul cage AP
Dumbass picked this gun without knowing what it does and fired at an enemy he hated. Nothing came out
Also, Mordred/Merdraut is a dick

"It's the Wand of Mordred. A cursed Artefact of Arcadia from Solemn's collection. It's changed form a few times over history but always appears as a slightly old and outmoded weapon; when used, it's instantly fatal to the victim, but only works against someone the wielder loves. Registers your Sympathetic connection to the person you use it on" - Eddington

[fathom haven]

https://tenor.com/view/the-godfather-al-pacino-godfather-the-godfather-3-scream-gif-16877836419174075854

[strong bronze]

....ok I was gonna mention that to be fair, Mordred's acolade is literally "the knight of treachery" but

Apparently that was a made up thing for fate

[marble sorrel]

Luckily, being Arthurian Lore, 'made up fanfiction thing' is just 'a few retellings' away from 'beloved part of the canon', right Lancelot?

[marble sorrel]

Yeah, hit me harder than I expected for a minor thing. It's part of why I really love the Fianna/Fae connection stuff. You get a bit of that morose 'band playing music as the boat sinks' from Changeling mixed up in there. Makes me think of one of my favorite songs about the fae, which is very much about 'wonder is dying but...there's still time to make the world you are leaving a better place'

It came to me to know then
That they need not die by hate
That I, might with my magic,
Battle to avert their fate

That I could bring them back this night
This to dwell within my hall
So now against hate, iron, and death
I go to pit my call

I call you now who came to me
Above my hollow hill
Now hear my song, and heed my words
And harken to me still

I call by star and melody
By love and magic bright
So come to me and bide with me
I fight for you this night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C6Qx1Q8pyA this really is this 'Changeling: The Dreaming' song in my mind.

That tension between 'staying alive in a world increasingly hostile to me' + 'I have the power to make things better and part of my soul would die if I denied that'

[vast blaze]

I feel Changelings and Amenti would get along swimmingly

Cause they both share a lot of overlap in their ultimate goals and means of attaining said goals

[marble sorrel]

Changelings actually have a bit on them in C20.

[vast blaze]

Oh?

[marble sorrel]

The Fae think they're pretty cool.

[nimble gale]

I do love how the fae are like 'oh, X? yeah, they're just weird fae.'

about literally. Literally, honest on god, everything.

[crimson horizon]

It's really funny and interesting

Makes me happy to play in a splat diverse Changeling Game

My Troll has a Mage NPC who's twin souled with him

We met a Promethean(?)

Our Eshu got turned into a Vampire

[marble sorrel]

To be fair, Mage does the exact same thing. XD

'Oh yeah, this is all Something A Mage Did'

[crimson horizon]

One of our Sidhe is banging a Nuwisha, and the other is Fianna Kin

Our other Troll interacted with BSDs (House Balor be wilding)

[nimble gale]

hey, sometimes it's 'something the consensus did'

there's at least one crackpot time mage out there who thinks that vampires didn't exist before bram stoker's dracula inserted htem into the consensus so hard it echoed back in time

[crimson horizon]

Yeah one of my Player's Characters thought the Fae were dead, they were happy(?) to be proven wrong

[marble sorrel]

And to be vaguely fair to Changelings when it comes to Mummy...they both use Naming. XD

Like that is actively a power for both of them.

'Hey you guys seem to use the same powerset we use. I think we might be linked'

[crimson horizon]

Nomenclature is so WEIRD

I love Naming so much

It has so much versatility

I made a Treasure that's just Legos

Except they have Naming 5 in them

[marble sorrel]

It's one of their more bullshit powers but in ways I love. XD

[crimson horizon]

So they metamorphose into whatever you built, literally

Built a gun? You have a gun now

[vast blaze]

That makes me smile for some reason

It's nice to see them get along so well

Instead of shooting themselves in the foot and distrusting each other

[marble sorrel]

I do like when various splats can have a vibe of 'okay, you're weird and I don't get you but you seem like a good sort'

[fathom haven]

We love camaraderie

[high current]

tbf in the context of Awakening, they might not be wrong? or at least, the other splats have archmage-tier patrons of some sort that have never been clearly defined from what i remember

[mighty zephyr]

That's the line yeah

the archmage book wasn't great

[high current]

(i mostly remember it being stated that archmages attempting to mess around with the fundamental nature of vampires/werewolves/etc have to contend with whoever the patron in question is or something to that effect)

[mighty zephyr]

Yup

And then they don't make any effort to explain who that'd be

For werewolves it's easy to think of the Firstborn and Luna

but for Vampires it's ???????

[high current]

i mean in theory for some of them the patron is pretty obvious; werewolves have gaia, demons have the god-machine, prometheans have the divine fire, changelings might count the true fae as their patron?

vampires are the main puzzle there

[mighty zephyr]

Luna, not Gaia

Gaia doesn't seemingly exist in Forsaken, but is posited as a prisoner locked in the earth that void spirits are attempting to eat or unleash

[high current]

right, i mixed up my settings

[marble sorrel]

Capital G god, I suppose.

He who cursed Cain etc

[mighty zephyr]

This is Requiem

It also can't be God since God is absent

[marble sorrel]

...oh, I got confused since this spun off me talking about Dreaming.

So I missed it jumping gamelines.

And I just spent the last minute trying to remember which passage I was thinking of to back up the Capital G god thing. XD

"Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?” - Isaiah 43:13

[clear delta]

My personal funny explanation is vampires are an emergent phenomenom from all the stuff these rank 6+ patrons have been doing, and poking vampires is just asking for unexpected behavior

That's why life drinking spooks keep having convergent evolution into vampires

[high current]

i feel like there was some plan at some point to establish who would be standing in for vampires in the pax arcana, but then Issues™ happened(the end of production of new stuff for nwod 1e, and then taking too long to put anything out about it in 2e that they ran out of time before Paradox said 'okay time to kill cofd, no more new books')
but also, that would require them to actually establish official lore about the origins of vampires, which theyve deliberately kept vague as hell beyond the convergent evolution thing

[mighty zephyr]

Oh no the reason is that the Archmage book was literally like

a doodle, comparatively

they made that shit in a few weeks, put it out, and forgot about it

[marble sorrel]

That reminds me: Need more ranks of Banu Haqim stabbing magic so I can get the 'stab a mage's magic to death' rank, since the damn Templars are likely going to be up in our shit after this most recent Not Very Subtle (Though not due to our actions, bad to hide BSDs on the warpath) arc.

[spice abyss]

I am of the opinion that there doesn't have to be official lore for Vamps and why they exist

The fact that it's basically the supernatural equivalent of crabs evolving is great

And about the same level of things to wonder about

[mighty zephyr]

That isn't the really the concern though

The point being raised is that the Awakening Archmage book vaguely floats that there are Archmage-tier of every other Splat and then just straight up does not specify what they are

[spice abyss]

Ok? Sorry, I just wanted to say something about a thing I thought was neat.

I didn't read up all the way

[marble sorrel]

Hmmm...I wonder if hypertech armour counts as magical protection or if it's mundane protection with extra magical effects. I THINK the former just to avoid 'X quality is magic, Y quality is not, Z quality is mundane in part but not entirely' breakdowns for all objects being needed

[mighty zephyr]

If a Mage made it, it's magical yes

however if a regular scientist made power armor, it wouldn't

[marble sorrel]

Yeah, i was thinking of wonders yeah. Okay, so Banu swords punch though enchanted mail and power armour solidly. Likely to matter when dealing with Templars as they have enchanters and artificers

[mighty zephyr]

Well if it's the Templars it's not Hypertech

[marble sorrel]

Cabal of Pure Thought grew out of Messianic Voices/Were founding members of the order of reason so I'm expecting some basic artifice alongside the angels but yeah, hypertech isn't a formal thing in this era.

[grave gulch]

are technocrats wizards who deny they are wizards?

[mighty zephyr]

Basically yeah

[marble sorrel]

Though 'Magic' traditions are no less or more right. A templar saying it's angels is about as right as the technocrat saying it's block transfer computation.

The hermetic usage of runes and enochian is just as much a 'this is how i see it', not a deeper underlying understanding

All mages are guys in a cave arguing over the true form of the objects casting shadows

[grave gulch]

heh

nerds

(the mages, not u)

[mighty zephyr]

The Traditions are definitely "more" right as they are generally supported by the background text that Avatars are in fact metaphysical other beings that allow one to channel magic through exertion of will

[clear delta]

That's old mage btw

[mighty zephyr]

Yes

we're talking about old mage

[grave gulch]

[limpid shoal]

"Today on This Old Mage. 12 simple runes and enchantments for your tools, Picking the right phase of the moon for a ritual, And why you shouldn't go in to that old cave that seems to be a wellspring of power."

[fathom haven]

How would diablerie work for a Nagaraja?

Would I just need to eat the whole elder or?

[mighty zephyr]

You suck the blood

[fathom haven]

Oh I see I see

In addition to being able to drain blood, you also just have to consume flesh

[craggy coyote]

... I'm actually not sure on that because for the Ventrue, drinking from vampires does bypass their feeding restriction, but the risk of blood bonds is meant to compensate.

Does the Nagaraja bane specify "when feeding from mortals" or all feeding?

[vast blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-gerson-boom-gerson-i'm-old-im-old-gif-13265713427338879500

[radiant marsh]

It's specifically "You need to eat raw human flesh to replenish your blood pool"

[mighty zephyr]

Random doodle

Kindred who devour the souls of Sorcerers are usually informally called “Narakans”, a half-serious Buddhist reference made to mock the Mage’s sensitivity to their eternal soul’s ability to reincarnate. Kindred have died once and come back and know they aren’t cheaping the Reaper twice, and find such notions grandstanding at best and sanctimonious bawling at worse. 

To Diablerize a Mage: 

1. The Mage must be Incapacitated. 
2. The Vampire must drink them to death. 
3. The Vampire must then make a contested Willpower roll against the Mage, both characters using their permanent willpower rating. 
4. If the Vampire succeeds, they may immediately gain half the Mage’s Arete in free Discipline dots, so long as they are thematically appropriate to the Mage’s spheres and paradigm. (Blood Sorcery is obvious for many paradigms, but a shapeshifting witch may give Protean, a chrono-marine may give Celerity or Temporis, a dark shadowy Assassin Obtenebration, etc). These dots can never go over a Kindred’s generational Discipline cap, however. 
5. Surprisingly, this act does not additionally penalize Humanity the way it might with eating a fellow Kindred, only impacting the normal sin meter in regards to murder and draining. 
6. Instead of the Black Veins of Diablerie, the Narakan is instead marked with a touch of Paradox. Whenever they Botch a roll for the next (Mage’s Arete) months regarding the use of a Discipline, the ST should introduce a complication stemming from the paradoxical nature of the Kindred’s magical blood. ```

[vast blaze]

I dig it

Could allow Sorcerous paths as well, if the chronicle uses them

[mighty zephyr]

nah, you already got 20 blood sorcery paths, one of them has to fit somehow

[vast blaze]

Kinda? There's not really a Conveyance equivalent, or Alchemy, or Fortune.

Lot of things that sorcery does that disciplines doesn't cover.

[mighty zephyr]

There is an Alchemy

[vast blaze]

Oh yeah there is

I forgot about that one

Oh shit there's teleportation thaumaturgy too

[mighty zephyr]

on this note I also think vampires should be able to diablerize werewolves and changelings and whatever the fuck else

they can eat souls, anything with a soul they should be able to eat

[craggy coyote]

Sidenote to this, have you read the Crimson thaw comic?

[mighty zephyr]

nope

[craggy coyote]

do you care for spoilers

there's some fascinating lore related to this idea there

[mighty zephyr]

I do not

shoot

[fathom haven]

My favorite is King :]

[craggy coyote]

Right, so: ||Tremere Justicar Ian Carfex (one of Shreckt's lackies) tried to take over a Garou Carern (in the process destabilizing the new prince's domain) over in Minneapolis. Carfax did this because he figured he'd be able to consume the power. Upon doing so in the climax of the story, he also realizes he's eating part of the world's soul, and thinks that if he keeps doing it, he'll be able to take Gaia's power, and stave off the beckoning. This act gets him on the garou's shitlist, and the prince's, and he ends up dead before he can test his theory further very quickly||

[mighty zephyr]

Ha, neat.

[craggy coyote]

||So theoretically vampires could consume the entire world soul if they have the right magic and the right ritual sites||

[vast blaze]

Why does that make me think of like

That one GIF of Badlands Chug just drinkin the entire ocean

[fathom haven]

https://tenor.com/view/badlands-badlandschugs-chugs-chugging-ocean-gif-14470320132933540227

[vast blaze]

YEAH

[vast blaze]

Dealing with a Hunter in a vampire chronicle right now

They just namedropped Caine

How in the fuck do they know that

This has gotten quite a bit more interesting very abruptly

[marble sorrel]

To be fair, even outside of WoD, 'Caine is the first vampire' is very common fiction.

They could be just Accidently Right.

[high current]

there's also the thing where the caine origin myth isn't exactly a secret

[vast blaze]

...is it not?

I thought it was obscure lore even for vampires

[high current]

most kindred consider it fake

the fact that it's true is a secret

iirc

but like the myth is a common thing

the sabbat refer to themselves as the sword of caine

and 'cainites' is a not-uncommon term for kindred

[vast blaze]

I see

[high current]

especially for anybody old enough to have been around before the Camarilla(1400s)

which, Dark Ages(1200s) lowers the default generation by only 1, so there's plenty of 12th gens who were embraced before the camarilla formed

[fathom haven]

I mean, there's Mormons I know that think Caine is Bigfoot, Caine being any sort of mythical creature wouldn't be too far fetched for most people, especially a hunter

[fathom haven]

Ah yes, the first vampire

[grave gulch]

Bigfoot could be a good one shot theme for Hunter

[fathom haven]

Ah yes

Bigfoot beats the ever loving hell out of scrub hunters

[grave gulch]

[high current]

Bigfoot: actually a gurahl?

[grave gulch]

is the in-lore Bigfoot like giga strong?

[high current]

Some sort of shifter in either war form of the near-human form

Idk I'm just shitposting

[fathom haven]

Could be a Gurahl, could be a Lurker, could be a Garou, Bigfoot in WOD could be like

7 different things

[grave gulch]

that makes it fun

Dracula plays poker with Bigfoot on tuesdays

[fathom haven]

What we DO know is Sasquatch was the totem for Younger Brother before he became Bitey Mc Cold Wind Heart Eat

[grave gulch]

[fathom haven]

At least that's how the legends go

[nimble gale]

Rats is saying that Cainite was the default among european vampires. Kindred was a camarilla invention to distance themselves from the Cainite myth.

[fathom haven]

No that

I was doing Door's bit from Hunter the Parenting

[nimble gale]

oh

Apologies, I do not understand humor.

[fathom haven]

You're good buddy lol

It's when they're talking to the Licks, and (I can't remember who) mentions the Camarilla, and Door goes "Ah yes, Carmilla, the first vampire"

[nimble gale]

right, yeah

[fathom haven]

Sigh

I miss the Licks, Shitbeard specifically

[grave gulch]

Shitbeard was cool

at least Kevin's pretty fun as well

[fathom haven]

No fr, I love Kevin