World of Darkness

[high current]

we call that a Kettle Battle

[steel agate]

that was the name; thank you

[high current]

something introduced in Blood Sigils where two alchs have a cook-off

[steel agate]

I was struggling to remember that, since it was the first time I heard the term last session lol

[fathom haven]

OOOOOOOOO

[high current]

but yeah, Loose Cannon DLC, Benny can pick up melee weapons, has a gun, uses Soaring Leap to get around instead of gliding

im curious how Ysabella's gonna play when we get her DLC now

[fathom haven]

I love Brujah so much

[high current]

Brujah and Tremere are my top 2 clans

Hecata/Giovanni probably #3

[fathom haven]

Brujah and Nosferatu for me

[mighty zephyr]

Lasombra and Ministers

[fathom haven]

Ministers are cool, being able to turn into a giant snake is neat

I think Gangrel would be my third

[grave gulch]

[fathom haven]

Hm?

[grave gulch]

oh i was going to comment on something but the chat updated

[fathom haven]

Oh gotcha lol

[strong bronze]

i was searching "ivory tower" because i wanted to know if it was anything more than a nickname for teh cammies

and it gave me a technocracy thing

i was VERY confsued

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah it's used for both Camarilla and the Technocracy

[strong bronze]

Does the kiss work

Anywhere

Like,if a vampire was playing dead and someone stepped next to their head

Could they bite their ankle and the person would just be paralyzed?

[high current]

well it doesnt paralyze anybody for one, so no

[fathom haven]

They become paralyzed with euphoria, not the same thing as straight up paralyzed though

[high current]

im actually not even sure if the V5 core book states that anywhere, now that i think about it

[fathom haven]

Not V5, but older editions it did

[high current]

the only mention i can find is in the gloassary or w/e on page 60, where it says it causes feelings of ecstasy

[fathom haven]

Checking V20

[high current]

V20 is less 'paralysis' and more just 'continuous ecstasy so good you dont want to resist unless you have very high willpower'

[fathom haven]

Would that not technically be paralysis? Just not the actual definition of like, medical paralysis

[high current]

i mean, my understanding is that the vessel can still act, they're just unlikely to do anything to stop the Kiss

(so, eg, if you wanted to feed from someone while they're firing a gun or something, they could theoretically still keep shooting i think? there's nothing RAW saying they can't or that they suffer any sort of penalties afaik)

[fathom haven]

This is fair

Gods, this makes me wanna try V5 even more

[high current]

(there's also the obligatory 'you can bite someone while having sex, and theyll just keep going')

but yeah to answer the question, i think in theory if you bit someone's ankle with the intent of it being pleasurable, and weren't a hecata/giovanni, they would have trouble resisting once you chomp down

[fathom haven]

That

Gives me a really funny idea for a Ventrue

[strong bronze]

"stops ressisting unless they have willpower 9 or higher" is
hmmm

[high current]

listen, if you didn't want things skirting the edge of being sexual assault, you shouldn't be playing vampire
it's kind of baked in, unfortunately just, yknow, make sure everyone at the table is cool with what's going on

[strong bronze]

no i know

[high current]

(i'm half joking, sorry if that didnt come across clearly)

[strong bronze]

i am thinking more practically since i am running a hunter game with all humans

theres lots of things to keep track of

[marble sorrel]

That said: I don't think it applies in Actual Combat

Just Ambush or Seduction

[strong bronze]

this what i found

[high current]

yeah theoretically if you grab someone and can manage to bite them, you can do it the pleasurable way instead of doing damage

also lukelblitz i'd recommend sticking to the rules of the game you're running

instead of looking up how other games handle the monsters

[strong bronze]

yes i am

[fathom haven]

I've always had the Kiss used in a consensual setting and it wasn't used in combat that I've seen, that again, I've mostly played Vamps that either drank from the dying/blood bags/animals/or combatants, so mostly just the normal bite

[high current]

im not super familiar with pre-5th edition Hunter but, it likely has slightly simplified versions of the splats to use

because none of the splats assume you own the other books

[strong bronze]

i am using hunters hunted

[high current]

ah

[strong bronze]

so its mostly

learning vampire 20

[high current]

yeah

if you want something simpler i'd recommend H5, but if you already bought the V20 books then, y e a h

[strong bronze]

oh no,i looked at h5 originally

i just didnt like 5edition that much

[high current]

i'd recommend sticking to just the core book for V20 vampire antags fwiw

at least until you learn the system more

and also, probably stick to like, Ventrue, Brujah, Toreador, Nosferatu, Gangrel, and maybe Malkavians or Assamites

[fathom haven]

Yes by all means stick to Nosferatu, Gangrel, and Brujah
and let me know if you need ideas

[high current]

that skips out on the weirdness that is Tzimisce and Vicissitude, Tremere and Thaumaturgy, Giovanni and Necromancy, Ravnos and Chimerstry, etc

those disciplines are all varying levels of weird

(also Salubri and Obeah but they're counted as a Bloodline in V20)

[strong bronze]

..... sloooowly puts away the tzimisce archbishop that i was making earlier today

[marble sorrel]

You could go Old Blood Tzimisce, they're much less Weird Mechanics.

[high current]

i mean, you can if you want but a 'fucked up monster vampire' can also just be a Nosferatu

[fathom haven]

Wouldn't that be a Lasombra thing?

[marble sorrel]

Animalism, Auspex, Dominate is a pretty 'normal' disc list and you still get to be A Dracula

[fathom haven]

I firmly believe that as a Nosferatu ages it just gets freakier and freakier

[patent stirrup]

Weird question, how do you tell which sourcebooks are from 5e?

[high current]

old clan tzim get koldunic sorcery which kinda has the same issue as tremere and thaumaturgy of there being A Lot of Options

[fathom haven]

Also just like

[patent stirrup]

A friend encountered one that is maybe 20th anniversary

[fathom haven]

Making the land addicted to vitae and shit like that

[marble sorrel]

It's not in-clan, that's just a thing that some of them know.

[high current]

V20 books will have "20TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE" on the cover

and usually have the green marble stuff around the edge

[patent stirrup]

Ahhh ok

Rats (He/They) 🐀 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) V20 books will have "20TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE" on the cover

[strong bronze]

like

[worthy sundial]

if u can see the publication date & its before 2018 its v20

[strong bronze]

granted,its not the most visible letters

[high current]

5e books will also have the new logo

[fathom haven]

The Clan you'd want to embrace you the most and the clan you'd want least, GO!

[high current]

Tremere, Nosferatu

[fathom haven]

For me personally, I think Brujah the most, and Tremere the least

[patent stirrup]

Most: Banu Haqim
Least: nosferatu

Totally Not NOAH NHP :] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) The Clan you'd want to embrace you the most and the clan you'd want least, GO!

[fathom haven]

I'd much rather have Nosferatu than be strapped into the pyramid for the rest of my undead life

[high current]

actually wait no, least would be Setites tbh

V5 has no pyramid

[fathom haven]

Still though

[high current]

it got shattered when Prague got attacked by the Second Inquisition in like 2015 i think?

[fathom haven]

Eww Tremere

[high current]

listen i just want blood sorcery

[fathom haven]

Let me make an entire slave bloodline

Surely I'm not the bad guy

Although

Gargoyles are cool af

I'm NGL, I wouldn't mind Nosferatu

[worthy sundial]

also they just have rly different cover sensibilities
https://d1vzi28wh99zvq.cloudfront.net/images/18205/399080.webp
https://d1vzi28wh99zvq.cloudfront.net/images/4261/179023.webp

[high current]

tbf if i were Embraced now and not, yknow, like 500 years ago or w/e, i wouldnt have had any involvement in the Gargoyle stuff

oh 900 years ago, even further than i thought

[fathom haven]

I don't think being a Nosferatu would be as bad as most people think

[strong bronze]

nosferatu

invisibility and super strenght are cool,and i can coiunt the number of people that see me in a month in one hand so it doesnt matter if i look like the back of a couch

least its probably ventrues because i am not good enough with people to navigate the political games bullshit that would come with it

[fathom haven]

YEAAAH

[marble sorrel]

V5 Lasombra would be what I'd most hate as tech is too important to function without.

[high current]

again my top 3 is like, Tremere, Brujah, Hecata/Giovanni

for blood sorcery/thaumaturgy, general anarch/rebel shit, and necromancy, respectively

[marble sorrel]

Banu Haqim Sorcerer would be my number 1 pick. I like the idea of magic and I really like the idea of spiritualism over thaumaturge-style.

And the sorcerer blood curse is on the light end.

[fathom haven]

I think people also forget the value of Animalism, Nosferatu sweep

Oh you have all of your little ghouls and your tall buildings and mansions and shit?

Crazy

[strong bronze]

GO MY RAT ARMY

[fathom haven]

7000 fucking pigeons

Eat this man

[strong bronze]

domain expansion

23 ghouled cockroaches with potency

[high current]

past that i think my list is like, Lasombra, Toreador, Ravnos, Assamite/Banu Haqim, Tzimisce, Gangrel, Ventrue, Malkavian, Nosferatu, Setite/Minstry

Nosferatu is mainly so low because all the other clans have shit i'd want more

[marble sorrel]

Though I think 'Banu Haqim' is a very 'depends on edition' thing for me.

[fathom haven]

Also, I'm great with computers, and I could dig up dirt like literally everyone's business

[fathom haven]

Oo that's fair

[high current]

oh and if we count Salubri they're like, between Malk and Nos probably

and Thin-Blood is probably at the end

[marble sorrel]

V20 Banu? Yeah! V5? Ehhh...not so sure there.

[fathom haven]

I could also be a Tzimisce I think

V20 Tzimisce though

[strong bronze]

i also considered tzimisce since i like making art

but i am not good enough at it that i would make MYSELF into art,nor evil enough to make other people into it

[fathom haven]

I would just want my war form, I'm a regular guy and then BAM

I'm a 9 foot tall bat monster

[strong bronze]

it takes two turns to pop which

i assume is you physically sculpting yourself

[mighty zephyr]

Most is Brujah, least is Lasombra

[fathom haven]

Very understandable and based

[mighty zephyr]

Though Lasombra are my favorite clan I am not living my unlife without the computer

[strong bronze]

you can sitll,right?

iirc the curse only works if you try to record yourself

or your voice

[mighty zephyr]

Nope, it fucks with all technology

[marble sorrel]

v20 it was a more classic 'don't show up in recordings'

v5 made it more of a 'gremlins in my tech'

[strong bronze]

wait are we considering the psychological banes

[mighty zephyr]

V5 also has the first one

[strong bronze]

like

the permanent deep seethed changes to our psyche

that our clan is gonna give us

[mighty zephyr]

I could also make is as a Malk I'm already deeply mentally ill

[fathom haven]

Does it? Horrid form just costs two blood points

And bat maurader just costs 3

You could do that in one turn

[fathom haven]

I mean

I already am a fan of transforming the human form so

Tzimisce would work?

[strong bronze]

this is what i meant

[fathom haven]

Ah

See I'm going off of V20

[strong bronze]

yeah in v20

you just gotta sleep on your soil

[fathom haven]

Which is funny, because it's a set amount

That you can just keep in your body

[strong bronze]

imagine a tzimisce from central asia or something travels to europe

and you just

slash open the pocket where they keep their magicdirt ™

so now they have to travel the world to get it back

[fathom haven]

I've had that happen to a buddy of mine funny enough, but his Tzimisce was pickpocketed, and they just swiped his fuckin bag of dirt

Never found the guy, he just stole a bag of dirt and fucked off

[strong bronze]

i had the tzimisce bishop's thing be

the dust and bones of the kindred they diablerized

but then i remembered that i am doing v20

[fathom haven]

Why not do that with the dirt from their homeland mixed in, like a morbid zen garden

[marble sorrel]

I mean, that's literally the plot of dracula when they go about the city destroying his coffins.

[high current]

if ur players dont know the rules, u can do whatever you want ✨

[strong bronze]

Dust of diablerized elders is

A lot harder to replace than dirt,to be fair

[high current]

Yeah but it's fun and flavorful

[fathom haven]

Maybe one of the elders was a big guy? More ashes produced than the others?

[strong bronze]

y'know what yall talked me back into it

[fathom haven]

Plus who knows how long this guy has been collecting the ashes and bones of fellow elders

[high current]

again like noah said if nothing else it's native dirt and elder dust

[fathom haven]

Messed up zen garden

My beloved

[high current]

that way you stick to the rules as written while also making it flavorful

[high current]

this is just making me think of fear garden
a song i havent heard in years

[fathom haven]

I'll have to check it out

[high current]

its a late 00s vocaloid song

about Rin killing people and planting their severed arms in her garden as flowers

[fathom haven]

Oo neat

[high current]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVFfeTIWWco

fair warning, again, late 00s
the audio is crunchy

[fathom haven]

Mm delicious crunchy audio

[high current]

also cw for blood and, yknow, murder
there's also censored gore

no actual on-screen violence though, the closest it gets is freeze frames of some characters moments before they're killed

[strong bronze]

i mean

started as a tenth generation god knows how many years ago

just this year,they managed to eat their way into sixth

they have been very diligent

[high current]

i feel like throwing a squad of hunters against a 6th gen is maybe a little cruel

[strong bronze]

i do have a habit of

"if you throw your numbers at their numbers,you are going to turn into a splatter,find another way to deal with this problem" when i dm stuff

[fathom haven]

"they're pretending to be a member of the Catholic Church, I'm calling God"

https://tenor.com/view/god-god-star-trek-star-trek-god-kirk-god-kirk-gif-24119282

[strong bronze]

Wait tzimisce can Vladimir into a blood pool????

[fathom haven]

Yee

And it's even worse if they use acid blood

[strong bronze]

That's the coolest shit I read all day

Man I love vampires

[fathom haven]

Fr, they're cool af

[vast blaze]

...what happens if you snort the dust

Like, you diablerize an elder, they turn to ash, you just straight up snort that shit

What would it do to you

[strong bronze]

....i don't think inhaling decomposed dead body is good for you

Like

By the time a vampire is dust,all the evil and fucked up magic that made then a vampire is gone

(which by the way it's all in the heart apparently)

[vast blaze]

Mmm, true

[high current]

if you're kindred, nothing

if you're a mortal, the same thing that would happen if you snorted any other pile of ash

(i think you'd either cough or puke, but idk)

[strong bronze]

Maybe mages could use it for rituals

[high current]

maybe

[strong bronze]

I KNOW that if you manage to extract the blood soul of a vampire you can do

A lot of stuff with it

[high current]

might work for sympathy to their sire/childer

or anybody they had blood bound/were blood bound to

[strong bronze]

glasses made from the corneas of a vampire that let someone use basic auspex powers as long as its dipped in blood every so often

[fathom haven]

Ooooo that's really cool

[spice abyss]

Oh hey Chieron Group ideas.

[strong bronze]

whu

[high current]

a hunter conspiracy from nwod/cofd

their whole thing is using monster parts to make biotech, which they give their hunters to hunt down more monsters to cut up for more biotech

H5 has an equivalent org i think?

[strong bronze]

oh shit

[high current]

Monster-X, i think

they're a relatively recent thing in H5's timeline though so if you're playing prior to like 2015 they don't exist yet

could make up a similar org though

the highlight is its an organization that lets you borrow powers from monsters by turning their parts into weapons/other gear

usually on a temporary basis though

[strong bronze]

i imagine anything made of vampire bodies would just

flashburn on sunlight

[strong bronze]

I did plan on having a secret hunter bar so

That's probably good to note down

[vast blaze]

Awful character idea

Demon that's possessing a dhampir sorcerer Imbued

Why's an Imbued letting a demon possess them? Iunno.

[fathom haven]

That does sound awful

[mighty zephyr]

Well the Imbued is dead at that point

Demon possession is a soul obliterating thing

[high current]

yeah typically playing a Demon means whatever mortal body you're in was on the brink of death when you showed up and took over

[nimble gale]

Or otherwise empty of soul

I believe whoever's body you end up ossessing can still become a wraith, which gets really weird when you don't take any dots in the 'remember life as a demon' background so asf ar as you know you're just a human who had a near death experience and... woke up with weird... powers...

huh that's basically the sin-eater exepreince in nwod

[fathom haven]

Would a Visigoth Brujah work for Dark Ages?

[clear delta]

Some merits to have a mortal summon goetia could be fun
Or hunter stuff

[nimble gale]

I don't see why not. The visigothic kingdom lasted until like. The early 700s? So you'll be on the older side assuming the standard start date of 1242

but that's not a huge deal, and the various clans are scattered a lot across europe. Latter Visigoths were mostly iberian, as they'd been kicked out of gaul by teh franks, so any of the western european majority clans could have a visigothic member, I think. Ventrue less likely if only because of the whole 'sacked rome' thing.

it's a 'how dare they' sort of deal

[fathom haven]

Perfect! Thank you my friend

That makes 3 Dark Ages vamps I've made now

[nimble gale]

👍 don't worry I'm a massive history nerd

[fathom haven]

It is very much appreciated

[strong bronze]

theoretically

could a mage

force someone else to awaken

[limpid shoal]

I mean that's kind of what Primers are for but I assume you mean more violently

[strong bronze]

i was rewatching hxh and i remembered that time wing just

forced gon and killua to open their aura nodes immediately

[vast blaze]

Is it? I thought it was like, "I control your body from time to time and also just kinda lurk in your head and talk to you sometimes."

[steel agate]

It's a major reason why I'm side-eyeing this ritual my Tremere was given in my V:tM game that would turn the runaway we had been tailing into a conduit to talk to the corruption demon living in the city

[nimble gale]

no, Demon the Fallen Demons, Capital-D Demons, are 'permanently' inhabiting an empty mortal shell

[steel agate]

that seems like a real "lose humanity; do not pass Go or collect $200" moment right there

[marble sorrel]

The humanity was generally already gone for one reason or another.

[vast blaze]

Can we discuss Norfolk Wizard Game here or do we need to discuss that in the Hunter: The Parenting thread?

[mighty zephyr]

I don't think it matters which

[vast blaze]

That's fair, I'll discuss it here

Spoilers:

||Oh my fucking god did they find Angron's Anton's room||

[fathom haven]

Thank you for spoilering it my friend 🤘 I need to catch up lol

[vast blaze]

...on the topic of wizards, behold the least wizardly-looking wizard possible

Looks like an Imbued, is actually a Virtual Adept

Why does he have a longsword? "Slicing someone up with a bigass sword is pretty kewl, if I do say so myself."

[nimble gale]

I mean classic VAs absolutely went for the cyberpunky 'sunglasses at night, trenchcoats all day' look

this one looks like an alucard-wannabe weeb who will quote team four star at every oppurtunity

I approve

[nimble gale]

also yeah Demon the Fallen Demon's 'morality system' is less about how humane/human you are and how much you let past trauma influence who you are today, to distill it down quite a lot

[strong bronze]

What would be the garou tribe more willing to try and fight pentex on the corporate ladder instead of

Just trying to burn it all down.

[mighty zephyr]

Glasswalkers

Their signature character, Trailblazer, is a Pentex subsidiary CEO

Other valid options are:
Silver Fangs
Shadow Lords
Black Furies

[strong bronze]

Helpful as always Sancho

[fathom haven]

Shadow Lords and Glass Walkers are always my go to

[mighty zephyr]

Though any tribe, realistically, can do this

[fathom haven]

Bone Gnawers would have to do it a little differently, same with Red Talons I would think

[mighty zephyr]

Differently, but still able to do it

Everyone would end up doing it differently

https://i.imgur.com/ANwxKNN.png

This is the Trailblazer loresheet btw

[fathom haven]

W5? I'm guessing

[mighty zephyr]

Ya

Trailblazer basically runs WoD Palantir

[fathom haven]

Hell yeah

[mighty zephyr]

He sucks so bad it's great

You get to see his twitter

[fathom haven]

WOLVES DONT LOSE SLEEP OVER THE OPINIONS OF SHEEP

Jesus 🤣

[craggy coyote]

god I can already feel my desire to punch him growing

"to stop a school shooter learn to shoot" this post made by the Uvalde PD

[vast blaze]

How on earth have the other Glasswalkers not ripped him apart yet

[tough pebble]

Unfortunately, he would definitely survive getting shot in the neck.

[vast blaze]

Someone PLEASE Wishbone this man

[tough pebble]

I think there's also a paragraph somewhere that contemplates if he's a psyop to make CEOs look even more psychopathic to the public

I love how the 5 dot just comes out and says "no, this doesn't work, you're just a part of the system now', though

[rapid glacier]

Trailblazer is such a shit I love him lmao

[vast blaze]

He's so fucking cringe lmaoooooooooo

[mighty zephyr]

Because he is a paragon of the Glasswalkers, as their most particular failure is thinking that the system doesn't need replacing, it just needs to be fixed.

[vast blaze]

In that EXACT fucking way that techbro CEOs are too, oh my god they got his characterization down perfectly

Ah, true

...even so, he's not fixing shit, he's just

Perpetuating it

[tough pebble]

I feel like a glasswalker CEO who is actually "doing their job" would be lobbying for universal basic income and housing the homeless

[fathom haven]

YOU JUST USE MELEE WEAPONS IN BLOODLINES 2??

I'm using a knife w Phyre rn

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah they updated it

[fathom haven]

I was so confused

I did the monkey neuron activation face

https://tenor.com/view/neuron-activation-neuron-gif-1455356329209493514

[vast blaze]

What are the options

Please god let there be a sword

[mighty zephyr]

It's presumably all the ones enemies use

so knives, baseball bats, crowbars, etc

[vast blaze]

D'aww

Well, at least I can Hotline Miami some fools

[strong bronze]

yeah bloodlines two is

a bit of a dissapointm,ent from what i heard

[high current]

there are swords

[vast blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/hotline-miami-bat-jacket-payday-2-redmoonjacket-gif-11698383603313760535

YESSSSSSSS

SVORD TIEM

[high current]

main ones i found to use were a sledgehammer, knife, baseball bat, and sword

sledge does big damage but is slow, knife does smol damage but is fast, bat can stun enemies for a moment when you hit them but doesnt do a lot of damage iirc, sword is a good mid-point damage wise

my opinion on the DLC btw is it's

fine

[fathom haven]

But more Brujah

[high current]

the highlights were ||Damsel|| making a couple of appearances, and the continuing bit of Fabien's face always being hidden

[high current]

aside from Benny having Soaring Leap instead of Glide and having to actually pick up melee weapons by walking over to them, and having a gun, power-wise he's basically just got the same shit as Brujah Phyre with a couple of options borrowed from Banu and Ventrue iirc

[fathom haven]

Honestly? I love it as a VTM game, not as Bloodlines 2, if that makes sense

[fathom haven]

I do love soaring leap

[high current]

and since you cant get any of the other clan perks from unlocking all their disciplines, you lose out on the various 'take less damage while feeding'/'hide corpses' things

[mighty zephyr]

Oh no it's good

[high current]

so stealth and feeding mid-combat are less viable on Benny

[mighty zephyr]

I like it more than Bloodlines 1 tbh

[high current]

and they had to make health elixirs way more common to compensate

[mighty zephyr]

It's not the best game in the world or anything, but it's a pretty fine game all around

[high current]

ye BL2 is alright, the main issue with it is it's very different from the original game which leads to a lot of unfulfilled expectations

it would have been better off having literally any other name tbh

[velvet sparrow]

If you go into it expecting Bloodlines 1 you're gonna be disappointed

But I enjoyed it, even if I don't know I'll play it again

[high current]

im strongly considering replaying it as a different clan now

havent touched it since a couple weeks after release

when you still had to play through Fabien's stuff

[fathom haven]

This is fair, but if I'm a Brujah, I'm not using stealth if I can help it, the bum rush tactic is enjoyable for me

[high current]

but now that you can skip him i might replay it as Lasombra

[high current]

hope u enjoy being pumped full of lead

[fathom haven]

I've actually gotten pretty good at dodging shots in this game (surprisingly, my main tactic for most games is to just face tank it and heal through)

I'm playing through as a Ventrue rn though, and I'm having a lot of fun with it

I very much like the power where you just go

https://tenor.com/view/blm-gif-25815938

[high current]

The dlc gives you a lot of big group fights, and multiple people shooting at once

Again there's like, way more health elixirs available than in the base game

[fathom haven]

Face tanking and healing through it is, the good ol tactic

Bet my beer hat full of healing potions ready

[vast blaze]

Unrelated: If a Garou passes on their Grand Klaive to a non-Garou, how would that end up shaking down

[fathom haven]

We talking Kinfolk or just straight up anything else

[vast blaze]

Like, they die in some heroic stand against some big bad evil force and they give their sword to their... idk, wizard or mummy or something friend that was fighting alongside them, gives a speech of like "Go and kill the servants of the Wyrm with my sword", how does that shake down

Do the klaive spirits refuse to work with this new non-Garou, how does the rest of the Nation react if they do end up working with them, etc.

And keep in mind the idea here is that this is a non-Garou that was a VERY steadfast ally to the Garou, like Supernatural Companion-levels of steadfast

[fathom haven]

Well, if it's JUST the klaive, I think it's just a regular sword, but if it's got a spirit, then you still can't really use it unless you've got access to Gnosis

At least to it's full potential

[vast blaze]

So it ends up just being a moderately fancier sword

Guessing you'd need to fight it in Garou Nation Court

[fathom haven]

But I think if the rest of the pack could vouch for you, you could own it without any issues

Because like

[mighty zephyr]

The rest of the pack or their Caern would probably try to steal it back

[fathom haven]

If you've got a SINGULAR Garou with you and he dies and he gives you his klaive, that guy must have hated you, because you've got a whole slew of problems of you come back from a battle alongside a Garou, and you have his Klaive

[fathom haven]

That too, because it could probably be used to call upon that Garou'a spirit

Not only that, if I remember right, aren't grand klaives rare?

[mighty zephyr]

Incredibly so yes

[fathom haven]

Yeah so like

You might as well hand that back to the Cairn

That way you aren't deemed a thief and you know

Obliterated

[mighty zephyr]

I think most Garou would, at first, either ask for it back or just steal it

[fathom haven]

Most

[mighty zephyr]

it's if the person seems obstinate they'd probably resort to violence

[fathom haven]

Man

Now I wanna make more Garou

Child of Bat Shadow Lord Ahroun my beloved, I will put you on a character sheet someday

[vast blaze]

Unsure about asking

Maybe THREATEN for it, but they'd not be reasonable enough to go "Hey man can we have our uber-rare sacred relic back"

[fathom haven]

Depends on the tribe I think
And the Cairn

[mighty zephyr]

Depends entirely on the individual

And they would be, as theres like 4 auspices who are good at lying

[fathom haven]

And one very much not

[vast blaze]

Mmm, true

I know it's fundamentally a stupid question, I just thought the idea of a non-Garou fighting with their fallen friend's sword was a neat concept

[fathom haven]

Maybe during the Apocalypse itself

[vast blaze]

Maybe, yeah, or if there were other Garou that witnessed him giving his dying request

"Look, we don't like it either, but Dies-In-Glorious-Combat really and truly did want this guy to have his sword."

[strong bronze]

stupid idea

a secret hunter bar meeting place where anyone that can be vouched to can come to mingle and rest

being ran by a mage who has had the place as their family's sanctum for a long while

[strong bronze]

....i dont know how i would feel if i was given that name

[fathom haven]

"My deed name is WHAT"

[vast blaze]

"Hey man, it's what 90% of us are gonna do anyway, don't worry about it too much"

[fathom haven]

Surely having a bunch of hunters in one place like that will be just fine 👀

[vast blaze]

Just hope the Waywards don't find out about it

[clear delta]

"Never-Give-People-My-Shit wanted this guy to have his sword, trust us"

[fathom haven]

A Bone Gnawer if I've ever heard one

[vast blaze]

But yeah, it might work from what y'all have told me, but I'd need other Garou to back me up

Which they might not do, it's possible that they'd just straight up lie about it

"We don't know what this guy's talking about. In fact his last words were that he wanted the sword to be given to me specifically, not this guy."

[mighty zephyr]

I think you are ultimately jumping through a lot of narrative hoops to give yourself a sword you ultimately cant use

So I would question what purpose this serves

[vast blaze]

Narrative juice, mostly

The sword's one part of it, the other part is being thrust full-send into a war with a force you can't comprehend with "allies" that mistrust you at best, hoisted upon you by your friend you helped out from time to time in what he surely thought was an act of kindness but has turned into a massive goddamned headache

[strong bronze]

its ok,sanctums are really hard to find

perfectly safe

completely infallible

also can i get a explanation on the differences bweetn

stealth,larceny and subterfuge

[high current]

Stealth is hiding, larceny is picking locks and pockets, subterfuge is lying

The books have sections that explain these things u know /s

[fathom haven]

Like to other supernaturals or

[strong bronze]

Sanctums automatically have a arcane effect applied to them

[clear delta]

"Great news everyone, Will-Die-Like-Yamcha got a new name
Oh, it's now Died-Like-Yamcha"

[vast blaze]

...Fandom generally sucks ass, but this is a rare instance of it not sucking ass

"He's a demonic owl with a fucking crown, and thus he's cooler than you will ever be" is absolutely peak

[mighty zephyr]

I am cooler than literally every single Hazbin Hotel character

[vast blaze]

But are you cooler than a fuckoff tall demonic owl with a crown

[spice abyss]

Legs 4 days

[craggy coyote]

... of course you are, their layer of Hell is warm

[orchid void]

pontius pilot, judas iscariot, voy the boy, these are the people sealed in the ice of cocytus

[warped plank]

Made a blorbo, now time to find a place that I can squeeze them into.

Have not fully thought out the idea of "how about I make a Polish blorbo usually living in a middle of nowhere."

[nimble gale]

Polish, eh?

[graceful saffron]

I think for next April Fools, I need to release an extensive expansion for Awakening 2e. "Lesser Known Exarchs and their Legacies"

[mighty zephyr]

how is this april fools may i ask

[graceful saffron]

Vertical Filing Cabinet, Exarch of excessive indexing and organizational management.

Baron Stein, An Exarch of Mandala Effects and False Certainty.

[clear delta]

Mandala effect would be rather different from Mandela effect

[graceful saffron]

No, I'm pretty sure its Mandala Effect. (This is the joke)

[warped plank]

The gangrel logistics.
Gangistics even

[fathom haven]

Ah, a fellow Gangrel player

[strong bronze]

Me and a friend were talking cyberpunk and about the arasaka tower bombing

And then the ravnos antideluvian bombing

And I wonder

....what is the strongest vamp Adam smasher could take on

[steel agate]

everything wraps around back to that one Cyberpunk 2020/VtM crossover from WW Mag lol

[mighty zephyr]

I've personally had this discussion like 5 times, funnily enough

[strong bronze]

Damn

[steel agate]

tbh, I have a hard time not backing Adam Smasher if the vamp is caught unprepared, regardless of gen

[craggy coyote]

imo depends on the following factors:

1. smashers resistance to domiante/presence and magical curses

2. what of his weapons deals agg damage.

3. any vampire elder powers that can subvert his abilities

by default against most elders I think he can come out on top barring botched dice rolls simply on account of being the cyberpunk equivalent of celerity 5 potence 5, fort 5 and having rocket launchers

his biggest issue against anything short of a Methuselah is getting killed by dominate, or unable to attack via presence.this man has survived nukes. animalism powers won't hinder him much, and even an ambush may not do anything as he's fast enough to have an ability akin to split second to mitigate getting the drop on hi.

[mighty zephyr]

Now the question does become

"Does Dominate work through cybernetic eyes"

[craggy coyote]

my personal view would be even if it doesn't by default powerful enough vampires don't give a fuck

the dominate 5 presence 5 Ventrue can absolutely still issue the order

whether it works on making Adam self terminate idk

but he can do it, it's a matter of dice pools at that point

that said my gut instinct would be yes because cyber eyes are wired into your flesh and how you see the world

[mighty zephyr]

But they're cameras

If I hold a camera close enough to my eye, am I suddenly able to be dominated?

[marble sorrel]

Once it's part of your body, I think that changes. As it's become part of 'you' mystically.

[craggy coyote]

^
that's my main point.

but even if you rule otherwise sufficiently powerful vampires can get around said restrictions.

and I'd say of the elders a Ventrue going full lelouche has a better chance of offing Adam than a brawler with fort cel and potence maxing because Adam has those too, and lacking blood + the risk of frenzy and sunlight means they probably break even in a straight fight and anything going long favors him.

so I'd say Adam is a threat and possibly outright kills most lone elders. methusalah and above power would be needed to have a chance of reliably putting him down

though methusalah power is more in the realm of plot device than pc

[worthy sundial]

if it works with glasses it should work with cyber eyes

[craggy coyote]

I'd Also say Adam needing methusalah level power to reliably kill him is fitting given his narrative role is similar to one

ie: if he shows up and the GM doesn't want you to kill him you are going to lose

[marble sorrel]

I'd give pretty damn good odds less on 'trying to punch him to death' and more on a Banu Haqim doing it if you need to beat him 'in a fight'. Obfuscate + Aggravated Damage Backstab or Anti-Tank Rifle to dome.

[craggy coyote]

problem with that is again

speedster

vampires with cel 5 can auto nullify ambushes

I see no reason not to scale Adam "your sandevistan is trash lmao" smasher to that

[marble sorrel]

...oh, you're talking V5.

[craggy coyote]

even if not v5

Adam is still fast enough to have that kind of ability and the senses besides

[mighty zephyr]

Adam has David's Sandevestan which is basically a timestop

[marble sorrel]

Obfuscate is mind-affecting, not sensory and I don't think he's got any particular mental defences beyond being 'An asshole'.

That's sorta why I brought it up.

You can't dodge what you don't know is happening.

[craggy coyote]

ok but even in v20 obfuscate gives you a chance to avoid the ambush

you get a perception roll

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah but Obfuscate cant completely nullify stuff that can detect it

[craggy coyote]

^
that too

[mighty zephyr]

And we know Adam has a suite of sensors

[craggy coyote]

it's not a guarantee

there is no reliable way for anything short of methusalahs to kill adam

[marble sorrel]

Honestly, his sensors are pretty meh.

low-lite, thermograph, Times Square Plus, targeting scope, anti-dazzle

Like, they're good for what he does.

But they're mostly set up for 'avoiding flashbangs' and 'shooting more accurately'

[craggy coyote]

except maybe dominate, because cyber ware can counter ambushes, give you the durability to survive offense, the speed to keep up with cel, and the raw hp to tank shots

[marble sorrel]

He's missing a lot of good ones for dealing with ambushes

[craggy coyote]

so... best bet is blood magic or dominate since those are things almost entirely absent from the cyberpunk setting

unless you want to say net runners count

and like you can make an argument in function net runners are doing magic

[marble sorrel]

Anything that hits his mind is likely to get through, his int and tech are both very mediocre, though his cool is good

[craggy coyote]

there's also the question of if his cyberware boosts his mental

[marble sorrel]

It doesn't.

[craggy coyote]

so yeah dominate is the best bet

[marble sorrel]

Well, okay. The Pain Editor technically increases his pain tollerance

[craggy coyote]

and I still would not want to be the vampire who tried that

[marble sorrel]

But other than that he's mental 'ware basicly doesn't exist

[craggy coyote]

because if it fails I am a pancake

it is all or nothing I either win in an anti climax or I lose and promptly get speed blitzed by the guy with rocket launchers

[marble sorrel]

Entertainingly, I think he'd get fucking destroyed by a sorcerer with technomancy.

His actual personal tech skills are not great.

And technomancy doesn't care about what a techie in the system does

[craggy coyote]

disagree because if it's techomancy his cyberware should protect him

and that man has best in the world if not best in setting black ice

if it was as easy to kill smasher as hacking his cyberware black hand would have done it years ago or gotten rache to do it

[marble sorrel]

Technomancy isn't hacking.

Like that's why I brought it up.

[craggy coyote]

aye but futzing with foreign systems gives resist rolls

and smashers are very good for the above reaons

[marble sorrel]

Except it's not.

His actual tech score is 4

That's not terrible

but his personal ability to handle tech stuff is rather mediocre

If he gets his arm turned off, he has to call up the company to fix it

He's at 'average human' there.

[craggy coyote]

now compare that to his black ice which exists to prevent those problems. smasher is not a great mechanic but he has world class gear run by sakas best

like... look at what happened with Lucy trying that exact strategy

[marble sorrel]

Okay but...how would that affect technomancy? That's...not how technomancy works at all. It's magic, you're not even in the system

That's like saying Black ICE would let him fry someone using dominate

[mighty zephyr]

If it can stop quick hacks it can stop technomancy imo

[marble sorrel]

Also funny thing: He doesn't actually have any black ICE on his statblock. XD

[mighty zephyr]

He does

In RED he has a replenishing firewall that refreshes every round

[marble sorrel]

Cyberware: FBC Body (heavily modified Samson frame, Dummy Facemask, Cybermatrix Reactive Body Plating), two sets of interface plugs, chip slot, pain editors, link set (smartgun, vehicle, data), optics suite (low-lite, thermograph, Times Square Plus, targeting scope, anti-dazzle), cyberaudio (radio, tight-beam radio, and cellular links with scrambler, scanner, enhanced range, amplified hearing, sound editor, level damper), wolvers in both arms, quick-change mounts, radiation shielding, biopod
Armor    SP 25 from Samson Frame, SP 20 armored coveralls when he's on the job (giving him a total SP of 42)
Weapons    Tsunami Arms Helix, Magnum Opus Hellbringer, SlamDance Hyper-Hammer, United Armaments CLAW

I'm looking at his CP2020 statblock

...oh, they added it in red?

[craggy coyote]

t hats also the weakest Adam smasher btw

like... the version you are using is pre oni bdy

he only got stronger from that statblock

he is terrifying

that said I do agree dominate is probably the best bet

[marble sorrel]

I do think you're kinda overestimating 'the things he's equipped to handle', as there's a lot of things he has no defence against becasue they're entirely outside context problems for him.

[craggy coyote]

again that's why I think dominate is the best bet

or non tech based blood sorc

those are outside context problems

technomancy still relies on technolohy paradigms and risks paradox especially going against someone as enmeshed in the idea of being world class chrome as Adam

[mighty zephyr]

I personally dont think Dominate works unless it specifically does so through telephones

[craggy coyote]

which can be done by very specialized elders

v5 for example can do it with a presence 5 dominate 5 build

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah but most of them arent getting that because they didnt know what telephones were until like 50 years ago

[craggy coyote]

probably

but still that's your best bet before you're pulling out methusalahs

[marble sorrel]

...risks paradox?

...what are you talking about?

Sorcerers don't get paradox

[craggy coyote]

technomancy is also a mage thing

[marble sorrel]

And I expressly said sorcerer

[craggy coyote]

and even for sorcs there's still resist rolls though

which is my main point even if it can the very way that magic works on being hyper tech and so on gives adam a decent chance to avoid the effect by being the pinnacle of murder bot tech

[marble sorrel]

...okay but notably: Sorcerers beat hypertech a lot on those opposed rolls

[craggy coyote]

they do. they also lose a lot

and if they don't kill adam instantly

he is going to kill them

[mighty zephyr]

I mean if its a sorcerer they are very much just dead

[craggy coyote]

^

[mighty zephyr]

From Adam shooting them with a glock

[craggy coyote]

also that

and if they're a mage they now have to fight the entire technocratic paradigm that Adam should be a beastly murder bot whose tech works to cast magic on him

[mighty zephyr]

Most eminently shootable guy vs Man Most Famous For Shooting People

[marble sorrel]

...I'm out of this conversation. Sorry but it's kinda frustrating to have to keep explaining my answers when people go to the entirely wrong gameline.

[craggy coyote]

ok.

[marble sorrel]

Okay, I'm bad at staying out. Funny pondering: Changelings would be just the worst thing for Adam Smasher.

That man has not a single iota of whimsy or wonder in his entire body

He's got zero chance of seeing anything Chimerical

[craggy coyote]

honestly yeah changelings are a bad matchup for him

[marble sorrel]

'We invested the GDP of a small country into this man, then someone called him Shithead and his face was transmuted into manure'

[craggy coyote]

yep

[marble sorrel]

...I wonder what his banality rating is. I'm kinda thinking he's likely a Full 10. He's go 'Hahahah, no' as an empathy rating and he actively hates everything that makes him Like A Person.

His soul is iron, death and hate

[craggy coyote]

technomancy at least in v20 would give Adam a bunch of buffs to make killing him harder via that stuff. (at a distance +1 difficulty. particularly large or secured items get even higher difficulty numbers and a resist pool to contest which imo applies to smasher).

changelings afaik would not have such issues.

and yeah is suspect his banality is high on account of just being so jaded

he has no dreams except for slaughter and carnage

the most indomitable part of that man's spirit is spite

[marble sorrel]

...god, he would get so salty at the changeling treasure that is 'can't be killed by anything made by a human'.

'My hands were made by a human'

[mighty zephyr]

I dont think he would

He would probably get really excited

[craggy coyote]

^ he loves a good fight

it's the one thing he wants

[mighty zephyr]

Oh no not a good fight

He loves murdering people in creative ways

[craggy coyote]

also that

but I do think he likes a good fight it's why he wanted to beat blackhand

while blackhand consummate professional that he is did not care

[mighty zephyr]

I feel like Adam is the last person you want finding out youre "unkillable"

Dude would put you in a soup can

[craggy coyote]

oh absolutely

he toyed with David's crew the entire fight and was furious at the idea that they would be able to flee

man said "none leave the slaughterhouse"

[marble sorrel]

...oh man, Return of the Heart would suck for him. It briefly makes you super empathetic and reminds you of everything you've ever done wrong. There are ancient vampires with less sins than him.

[craggy coyote]

most ancient vampires probably can't sin as much as smasher without wighting out

that man literally took up his mission with a rider of "I am allowed to have collateral damage "

it's just a few dozen civilians

as a treat

[marble sorrel]

Bane of Murder: "MY DUDE!"

[spice abyss]

Good ole "Empathy: You Wish."

[marble sorrel]

Silly Thing: How would your WoD character do in Night City? Assuming they got enough info to like, understand the basics of how tech works (So if you're Computers 5 you're still damn good at computers by the setting's standards)

[spice abyss]

Are we including chronicles characters in this?

If so, my beast does the best. Not on a technology level, just by being carried by the whole beast thing

Also so much trauma to feed on

[marble sorrel]

...Aininur likely does pretty well just due to being Resources 5 and being Very Rich in Night City is playing on easy mode.

[spice abyss]

My poor Adamantine Arrow mage though

He will pick a fight

And he will eventually lose

[marble sorrel]

But ignoring that...she's a meddler, so I doubt she'd stay out of trouble long. She's going to start fights and even 'can parry bullets' will only go so far.

[spice abyss]

Same reason my werewolf is eventually fucked

[marble sorrel]

Aininur's also kinda just a comically bad liar despite her other social skills. So she'd Have Troubles.

On the plus side: Night City has roughly zero defences vs spirits so she'd likely do a lot of damage on the way.

[spice abyss]

Oh the "hacking" that would happen would be very funny yes

God damn it you're giving me game ideas

[graceful saffron]

Hmm. Could Adam Smasher awaken?

[nimble gale]

Adam Samashe ris a Widderslainte, in this essay I will

[worthy sundial]

smasher iirc has rly high humanity

[graceful saffron]

Fascinating.

[clear delta]

Masochis with high empathy /s

Funny thing is, that's yi sang from limbus company
Multiple alts of him hurt people and love it. One wants to tear apart his past, another loves killing people close to him for strong attacks, another is a cult's dog that does horrible things to indulge in pleasure abd suffering

[spice abyss]

Adam Smasher is a finely tuned killing machine who has never missed a therapy appointment in his life

[graceful saffron]

I dream of such an attendance record.

So arguably, could Awaken.

[spice abyss]

He also has his secondary Elvis impersonation body for non killing fun iirc

[marble sorrel]

Pictured: Adam Smasher

[graceful saffron]

I think I would agree Technocratic Union or Nephandi, aye. In CoD, Banisher or SotT.

[clear delta]

CofD adam smasher would totally join a ministry of the General

[graceful saffron]

I nod My only thought with Nephandi or Banisher is that we can then also play with his "I'm special" category. The only Nephandi//Banisher who does it for a reliable wage.

[marble sorrel]

I do find it very funny that one of the Big Threats to Changelings is 'Those assholes in mirrorshades'. Not becuase they're individually super threats but because their goals of stasis are just dire for Changelings.

[graceful saffron]

Aye.

[marble sorrel]

Technocrats: "Dreams and Punk Rock are Banned"
Changelings: "Wake the fuck up Samurai, we've got a city to burn."

[crimson horizon]

CofD Adam Smasher wouldnt even be a Mage, he'd be a Deviant 5sure

he'd absolutely become a Deviant because of a Seer Mage tho i agree

like imagine say like, someone unsafely Relinquished a Self-Repairing Machine Rote on one of his Cybernetics and that slowly started growing and messing with the rest of him

his ass would join The General for the love of the Game (The Game is murder)

WoD Smasher is Gods Worst ITX Goon

[vast blaze]

My Gargoyle Fafnir would be in heaven, all he'd have to do is say he's an exotic and bam, no more Masquerade breaches. Probably.

Same for both of my Virtual Adepts tbh. Constantine's a hella rich technomagus and a Cyberpunk, he'd have a grand ol' time tearing shit apart. TALOS even more so, given he's a Giant Fucking Robot with an Alanson for a body.

Lionel does... okayish, maybe? I'm not sure that a Mokole whose Archid form is just Fatalis would do great in an urban setting, if nothing else than because the second he shifts, EVERYONE knows about it.

Lucien does pretty fuckin well, he's a Khri-Habi Amenti so his services would doubtless be in EXTREMELY high demand. Gonna get some use out of his reviving mechanic though, god knows him being a good doctor is gonna piss off the corpos.

Haidar's a Twilight-caste, Dawn-supernal Solar sorcerer. He solos the setting and eats Smasher for lunch. It would be comical seeing him neg diff literally EVERYTHING and just go "Lol. Lmao, even. Iron Body Concentration. You cannot hurt me in a way that matters."

[crimson horizon]

Theorem (Etherite), Goes full scorched earth on Corpos and Cybernetics. He fucking HATES the idea of people replacing their organic matter with chrome

Sonata (Sahajiya), Becomes a Solo and has a blast, work with the public to clean up gangs

Arthur (Changeling), Dies or becomes a Nomad

[mighty zephyr]

Someone who would actually join the Inquisitors...

[vast blaze]

Yeah, he'd 1000% be an Inquisitor and have everyone in the city hate his goddamn guts

[mighty zephyr]

You asked this before

[vast blaze]

...ah, so I did

sorry

[crimson horizon]

Tho tbh with the recent shit Theorem's been up to I dont think he's gonna have much issue dealing with some Corps

[strong bronze]

I am pretty sure he actually had a kerinzikov which is just

The sandevistan but on 24/7

Unless I am wrong

[mighty zephyr]

Nah, he had David's

https://youtu.be/7U8jEh7u1gA?si=YqiRd4dWC1BsPUs1&t=23

[crimson horizon]

imo Sandy is Life 3/Time 3 Dex Boost, Action Boost with just an assload of successes

More Successes, Bigger Timeslow yk?

especially with the OG Game making Sandy's give Dex Bonuses iirc

[marble sorrel]

It's a pretty standard action economy thing yeah, most splats have some version. Time(Vampire), Time (Mage), Time (Changeling) etc.

[crimson horizon]

thats the 1 thing i hate abt WoD Combat

it's just a dick measuring contest but with extra actions

[marble sorrel]

It's one of those things where 'once it's introduced, everyone needs to engage with it or the system falls apart'

[crimson horizon]

agreed

[marble sorrel]

So it would have been healthier had it not existed but...well, here we are

At least 4/5 of the Changeling 'time' effects are not actually 'more actions'.

[crimson horizon]

and in terms of consistency of extra actions (20th)

• Werewolves Rage (All of them have it, and it's a Simple Resource)
• Vampires Celerity (Some have it, and it's a thing to spend Resources on)
• Mage Time (Needs a lot of rolls to work, and not all Mages have time)
• Changeling Quicksilver (Lasts 1 turn without Time Realm, and requires a roll, not all changelings have Wayfare)

HM: Temporis 5 for being busted as sin if the roll resolves good

IF

[mighty zephyr]

That's why V5 doesn't have action economy manipulation

[strong bronze]

...weird that he doesnt have a kerenzikov then

[mighty zephyr]

He does

He has both

[marble sorrel]

While I know 'more actions' is more powerful, I have a soft spot for using Quicksilver instead for Railgunning Objects At People.

[crimson horizon]

yeah CofD also minimizes it, still exists SOMEWHAT with Celerity in VtR

but it's limited to 1 singular extra action

with limitations

[crimson horizon]

based

i did similar with Skycraft 3

[marble sorrel]

Letting you accelerate a coin through the side of a tank by turning all your successes into damage is more fun than just 'stab a guy 3 times'

[crimson horizon]

accidentally divided a vans weight and multiplied its speed by a factor of 64

and threw it at 3x escape velocity

with my entire motley inside

we ended up near the ISS

where one of our Sidhe shot an astronaut in the ass with an icicle

[marble sorrel]

Wayfare 🤝 TO THE FUCKING MOON 🤝 Skycraft

[crimson horizon]

that was a fun accident, we were trying to get to Minnesota from Washington State

where we found Hera

(I have Living Legend Zeus)

[marble sorrel]

The main Changeling I played was a Sidhe who went full into the 'I'm a knight'. Watching a Werewolf go 'what do you mean my claws are TN9 for damage rolls now?' was funny. I love Dragonscales.

[crimson horizon]

(Specifically his Domains as God of Hospitality, Oaths, and Justice)

Dragon's Ire rules so hard it's so fun

Arthur (Zeus)'s Bestie, a Sidhe Disaster Lesbian Dragon(s)layer has Art Affinity Dragon's Ire iirc?

[marble sorrel]

I'm a sucker for 'Fuck it, going loud' options and Tripping The Ire + Invoking the Wyrd is a very big 'Oh god, what the hell did we just encounter?'

[crimson horizon]

going loud is just more fun

the current state of the chronicle is chaos

we're going to boston to find a magical child and keep her safe from Nightmare beings

and to also kill the Setite Methuselah that embraced our Eshu

[marble sorrel]

She also used Protocol + Prop for 'My clothes are not allowed to get dirty', which was funny.

[crimson horizon]

honestly, based as sin

[vast blaze]

Nice

[strong bronze]

hey uh

i'm kinda blind,do the sourcebooks have examples of enemy statsheets

[marble sorrel]

My current vampire would kill for that trick. Staying clean and stylish is a bloody pain in Dark Ages Poland.

[crimson horizon]

yes but not alot

[marble sorrel]

Yes, they generally do in an 'Antagonists' section. Of note: they generally don't just 1:1 work like other splats. They generally get built as 'you can play this without having that splat'

[crimson horizon]

tbh you should run the other splat within the rules of your splat just to minimize book keeping, clashing rules, and a lot of headache

[strong bronze]

i just need like

some generic ghouls with guns to throw at a group of hunters to get acquainted to the combat of V20

thank u

[marble sorrel]

So like, this is one of the vampire statlines in changeling.

[crimson horizon]

if you want to use the other splats rules without clashing with the main player splat, try CofD it does it a lot more smoothly

[marble sorrel]

I agree with that but I am also scouring through my werewolf books for things for my vampire so I'm also a hypocrite.

[crimson horizon]

i use player splat rules because then i can just, do things wrong for the sake of coolness

or bend the rules of an ability

[mighty zephyr]

The generic bad guy statblock is like

"Roll 3-4 dice"

[marble sorrel]

She's got Spirit Manipulation 4, which lets her make Fetishes and the werewolf fetishes are much more interesting (And honestly, less busted) than the 'If you don't have the werewolf rules, just have it give +X bonus dice'. Sure game, +5 to all dice forever is Reasonable Thing. No, I think I'll go have her make Bane Arrows instead because they mess up the game less. XD

[crimson horizon]

Fetishes are always fun

planning to make one for my Mage

the current bargain is intended for a war spirit, the character is a Construct with the Immortal Merit

they plan to sacrifice their old body, battered and weathered by countless battles and bloodshed

to convince the Spirit to go into a gemstone, then socketing that gemstone into my PCs main weapon

[strong bronze]

alright,thanks

i may give then like

some low tier discipline powers

[crimson horizon]

just remember it's a bitch for ghouls to learn disciplines, so be VERY conservative with your use

[marble sorrel]

The big one my vampire is super happy to have made is this one:

Eye of the Night - Level 2, Gnosis 5 - The Eye of the Night is an unusual fetish in that its effect changes from day to night. A small circular glass disk maybe 5 inches in diameter, the fetish is either bound with a sun-spirit at dusk, or a Lune just before dawn. Both spirits produce the same effect in this fetish. When activated, the disk is hurled into the air and at its apex will suddenly stop and remain centered over the user's head.

If activated at night, the disk will suddenly burst into a glow as powerful as the full moon. This can be useful for searching dark areas, and it will also stun any opponents who can't make a Wits + Alertness roll at difficulty 7. (Stunned opponents lose their next action; this fetish can't stun entities that don't rely on sight.) 

During the day, however, the disk foes black as a starless night and filters the sunlight through the night-infused glass. This is most particularly useful during very long, hot, sunny travels. Garou with this fetish receive -2 difficulty to Stamina rolls for fighting off exhaustion under appropriate circumstances. An Eye of the Night can be activated once per scene.

Not for the anti-sun bit. That's handy but not really the primary goal

Instead it's the 'We're in the dark ages and vampires can't naturally see in the dark and get Red Fear' bit.

She's got a light that won't instantly freak out the other vampires if she pulls it out.

[mighty zephyr]

Ghouls having 1 dot in disciplines is fine

[crimson horizon]

absolutely, but "some low tier discipline powers" is pretty vague

[nimble gale]

A ghoul wtih more than one dot in more than one discipline is going to be a very old ghoul (aside from the free dot in potence). I tend to give NPC ghouls 1 potence + 1 dot of their domintor's primary discipline, if they've been ghouls for a couple months at least

[marble sorrel]

I'm still super happy with Aininur's Ghouled Warhorse. That's a fucking terror, even if it's not really gotten into a fight yet.

[crimson horizon]

ironically my ST gave me this

[marble sorrel]

The GM has said that while I can make Fetishes that actual Klaives are off the table as vampire isn't really set up for 'Hey so this sword deals strength + 4 aggravated damage and you don't even suffer the carrying silver penalties since you don't care about silver'

Which you know...reasonable

Aininur has a silver short blade that so far has beaten one woof without needing that added to it.

[strong bronze]

like

a dot in potence to have then throw a sewer grate or jump up into a second story window

[crimson horizon]

yeah that's fair then

IterationDrive's point is also a solid idea for more favored ghouls

[marble sorrel]

Potence is basicly the 'Yeah a ghoul has a dot in this' discipline.

[crimson horizon]

perhaps a LITTLE more if they're extremely old, fed by ancients, or really experienced

[nimble gale]

A tleast prior to V5 they just got it for free for being a ghoul

[marble sorrel]

It requires very little actual Training and plays naturally into what they just 'do'

[crimson horizon]

Potence is the Unga Bunga Discipline

[nimble gale]

and like, the most important ghoul in the dark ages campaign I run is a Revenant, admittedly, so he gets to cheat some, but he has Potence 2, Vicissitude 3, Animalism 3, Celerity 1 and Fortitude 1, but he's also pushing a hundred years old and has been working for both the Prince of Krakow and the Grand Duke of Poland so he has plenty of temporal and vampiric backing.

[crimson horizon]

god i cant wait to play my Tzim Lorenzo again

[mighty zephyr]

This is a whole lot of not exactly useful information for what Luke's trying to do I feel like

[strong bronze]

oh yeah thats good to know

[nimble gale]

I already provided my general guideline for young/generic ghouls?

[marble sorrel]

Temporal backing? Oh no, True Brujah!

[nimble gale]

lmao

[marble sorrel]

...I do want to play a True Brujah again some day.

[nimble gale]

done right true brujah are fun, and I appreciate that in V20 temporis isn't just 'celerity but better'

I wouldn't trust J. Anyplayer to play one, but a player I trust I would

[marble sorrel]

Can you REALLY say you've got proper vampires without time fuckery? XD

[nimble gale]

lol

[vast blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/dio-brando-gif-25280711

[crimson horizon]

Dio is the most emotional Trujah

[nimble gale]

he's the Trujah the other Trujah trash talk behind his back but in a logical way

[clear delta]

Had a brain blast for my centipede shifters in forsaken
Give them, besides poison, curse abilities

Maybe have them eat negative spirits for power geto style lol

[limpid shoal]

Holy crap I missed a lot of discussion involving cyberpunk and wod

[orchid void]

hey hey wanna know a fun fact? often in japanese art, centipedes represent kegare, a spiritual impurity

maybe tie them into Wounds?

[clear delta]

That's the idea

[orchid void]

🙂‍↕️

[clear delta]

The Big Centipedes often appear on wounds and wreck the area, purifying it

And closing the Wound with its vicious poison

It's one way to close eounds, but a rather brutal one

[orchid void]

oooooh, yeah that's good

gives the wolves a reason to go "okay do we kill this last or do we just let it happen"

[mighty zephyr]

I like that

"Natural predators of the wounds"

So wait actually

are they Shifters or are they Hosts

[clear delta]

So like
There are the big centipedes, catastrophic monsters that are likely hosts or shards

And the shifters

People may become shifters due to a forming centipede

And could attemp to solve wgatever is provoking the centipede
For you see, while somewhat rabdom, they tend to appear due to build up of suffering, frustration abd resentment

So somewhat solvable, if an outright wound hasn't been formed yet

Shifters are thus mostly an assortment of people with a tendency towards grudges and some motivation to stop the big manifestations to stop rampages

[crimson horizon]

Thought of another prompt, what Mech(s) would your WoD/CofD PC Pilot

• Theorem (Etherite Mage), Nelson, Stortebeker, Amber Phantom
• Sonata (Sahajiya Mage), Sunzi, Atlas, Lycan
• Arthur (Changeling Troll), Zheng, Gorgon, Napoleon
• Cosimo (Orphan Nephilim), Pegasus

[high current]

Jack(V20 Anarch Brujah), Lycan or Enkidu
Zach(V5 Camarilla Tremere), probably Goblin or Pegasus
Jack(MtAw2e Guardian Mastigos), absolutely a Goblin maybe snag some Sunzi levels for the sake of teleporting around

the 2 Jacks were technically different takes on the same basic character concept

i dont get to be a player much but those 2 were like 5 years apart from each other, Zach was like a year before the second Jack i think?

also in Night City Jack would probably end up a rockerboy, Zach would likely be either a netrunner or a tech

[limpid shoal]

Iris (||Hermetic|| Mage) would likely pilot some mix of Pegasus and Black Witch

[steel agate]

Yvonne (V5 Camarilla Tremere): Dusk Wing, or at the very least she has access to Neurospike

as far as the original Cyberpunk question goes, she'd probably end up a Media, as she's been the most research and investigation focused out of the coterie

not hard, considering the rest of the coterie up until now consisted of a Caitiff who's been more focused on clinging to what humanity he has left, a Toreador who's been more concerned with her VTuber activities, and a Malkavian who feels a little too cozy with the ex-Sabbat members we've met in the game so far.

although said Toreador is stepping away from the group due to irl issues, and her replacement seems pretty set on what will be a second Tremere in the party, so that's probably changing in the near future, from what I've gathered about their character

[clear delta]

Oh ho, found this!
Need to write it down

[clear delta]

Oh now I fell down the tma entity rabbit hole
it fits a homebrew of mine for chronicles of darkness
A fear grimoire that inflicts phobias on people who read it, plus having spells to make use of them, mostly by summoning the phobias as goetia minions
And maybe has instructions to follow a route in teh temenos to a special fear based realm

[vast blaze]

Fafnir: Genghis built for Combined Arms/Executioner. He's a Gargoyle whose schtick is "I am a dragon-man that breathes fire and has a big zweihander", makes the most sense. Even if it would be a Rotschreck nightmare...

Lucien (Tremere): Weird melee Lich build.

TALOS (Virtual Adept): Combined Arms/Duelist Caliban. I mean his ref is LITERALLY just my Combined Arms/Duelist Caliban, so like.

Constantine (Virtual Adept): Atlas with some Horus levels for weird tech attacks. Probably dipped into Kobold to replicate being a Matter sphere mage.

Lucien (Amenti): Manticore. Fits with Mummy's schtick of being a warrior of Ma'at, and if anyone can deal with Castigation's unfortunate side effects, it's a mummy.

Lionel: Also a Genghis, but built for flight and Brawler. His schtick is that he transforms into Fatalis, makes the most sense for his mech to be a literal goddamn dragon.

Haidar: Good ol Everest, with a Tempest Charged Blade and built for Executioner. There's no other mech that quite captures how fucknuts overpowered a Solar Exalt is besides Old Reliable with its incredibly good baseline stats and the best core power in the game.

[graceful saffron]

I got to introduce the players of my VtR to a Neglatu today, as a unique NPC. They are absolutely adoring it.

https://theonyxpath.com/lonely-together/

[strong bronze]

still my favorite quote

[graceful saffron]

They should be turning it in, alongside its nest of Revenants, but they are so enchanted with the interaction they are going to cover for it.

[high current]

one of my V5 players took a 1-dot enemy and we decided its her ex who is unlikely to be violent, doesn't know she's a vampire, the expectation is that she'll just show up to be annoying and cause problems
the PC owns a night club and there's been a few instances of Kindred-related Drama happening there, since it's the coterie's shared haven
im debating having the enemy just like, leave bad reviews mentioning some of the drama, maybe spraypaint something on the wall outside, that kind of stuff, next session(my main goal with next session is to get the PCs to confirm a theory they have about the Regent's bodyguard being a thin-blood, but the enemy fucking with the club will be a good distraction, or alternative thing if they decide to try and track her down instead or w/e)

[vast blaze]

Have her key her car and do other acts of annoying vandalism I say

[velvet sparrow]

Keying the car is fun

Trying to find some kind of dirt on the PC?

Getting nosy and unkowingly coming close to breaking the Masquerade

[vast blaze]

Maybe eggs too

[craggy coyote]

questions for context so I can give advice ( unsolicited)

1. what is the PCs main premise?
2. whats the ambition?
3. what other bg dots do they have?

[high current]

Toreador, her ambition is to dominate the club scene
theyre anarchs fwiw

[high current]

i think that might have been my original intent with her cause she has stealth 4, investigation(deduction) 4

i set her up shortly after session 0 and forgot what the plan was the main plot so far has been them having a heavily encoded grimoire that everyone has said has a powerful ritual in it, and they've recently figured out its essentially a permanent version of Blood of Potency, give's +3 Blood Potency at the cost of sacrificing (TBD number) mortals

but im at the point where all of the antags who want the book have been, at least for now, convinced that the PCs dont have it, and they dont have a way to verify that without potentially causing problems(book was unknowingly stolen from the Church of Caine originally, but the Camarilla found out about it before it was given to the PCs by a now-dead friend)

so im waiting on the PCs to make a mistake and just, trying to flesh out the city a bit until then

(and trying to encourage said mistakes)

[craggy coyote]

few thoughts then:

I'd suggest having her start
messing with her ex's bg dots. her guards are annoyed at having to deal with her showing up at the place in the day and more annoyed the PC can't answer the door.

she tries to interfere with projects for club influence or grow her own.

or you can have her do masquerade breach stuff

for example messy crit on a social role to get in the club scene? your ex was there the same night and is now trying to contest your power play

[high current]

[crimson horizon]

my ST is testing my Cabal's adherance to the Consilium's Ceasefire with the Seers of the Throne

first they dont fulfill their half of the deal

now they have the audacity to exist in this mansion and mention their masters

im gonna summon a blackhole on them

[radiant marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/sidious-gif-18100940

[strong bronze]

Not that they would make one,but

can a wight still make ghouls

[crimson horizon]

Biologically they can

[vast blaze]

Mentally I doubt they'd be All There enough to do so

[crimson horizon]

Trust me it's very tempting, even more so because I'd be 100% morally justified because Seers are the fucking worst

For those unaware of what Seers are in Mage The Awakening

They're minions of the Exarchs that currently rule reality

Ruin being the Exarch of Fate

And Psychopomp being the Exarch of Death

But for how evil they can be

Unity is the Exarch of Mind who specializes in "Freeing people from the burden that is free will"

And Eye, the Exarch of Space whose organization is literally called Panopticon

And the Exarchs are responsible for the Abyss, the boiling sea of unreality currently eating reality atom by atom

Generally, evil bad bad bad

[radiant marsh]

Seer motivation literally boils down to like

"We know we're actively making the world a worse place, but this benefits me personally so whatever"

[crimson horizon]

Yurrr

[high current]

Fascism: Mage Edition

[clear delta]

"We are just playing to the winning side. What, you wanna oppose the gods of this reality?"
"Yes"

[crimson horizon]

Smth smth "row row fight the power"

[crimson horizon]

i can imagine it happening by accident in VtM, literally impossible in VtR

since they're ghouled sip 1 more or less

the 3 sips is the blood bond iirc

VtR is more of an elaborate Rote where you throw a piece of your humanity down someone's throat with vitae

and given they're a Wight Draugr, that doesnt have humanity

[craggy coyote]

they can provide vitae for a ghoul, a ghoul can get blood bonded if they drink from the vein 3 times, but practically no.

Wights are basically feral animals in terms of intelligence and that inhibits thier planning.
I'd put them at the level of "intelligent toddler" when it comes to planning anything complex. Clever enough to get the jump on you, not smart enough to recognize it should ghoul a mortal so the mortal can get it more meals, instead of just eating the mortal now.

An "independent ghoul" who hunts a wight down and provides it blood while staked could use it for vitae though.

the possibility of that occuring is one of many reasons the camarilla destroys wights - while the largest reason is the masquerade breach, there's also the fact that any human who gets lucky and access to super crack and vampire powers without a master is very likely to start hunting other vamps for their fill

[strong bronze]

Exactly the plan

[crimson horizon]

it does depends on their nature, they arent stupid, just acting wholly off instinct

echoes of the former vampire does come through

[craggy coyote]

That is why I used the wording I did

they're clever

they are not smart

They can't cite literature, they won't make long term schemes, but they can do some short term day to day planning and they can use their powers

[strong bronze]

i mean,this character is a hunter that started using vitae as a emergency button for jobs that are a bit too dangerous for a normal guy with a gun

i imagine that after a few months of not being able to feed they would wight

[mighty zephyr]

Ghouls cant wight

[strong bronze]

not her

the vampire she is keeping chained up as the emergency steroids

[strong bronze]

Actually no,in this situation they would probably just

Go into torpor,but be in a permanent frenzy if they wake up until they feed from hunger

[high current]

yeah no you dont become a wight until humanity 0

your vitae bloodbag vamp would be useless after they run out though, unless you can feed them without them waking up

[fathom haven]

Happened to my Gangrel once

[strong bronze]

I mean,a stake takes care of the waking up problem

[high current]

not really

oh wait

stake, not steak

ignore me im tired

[steel agate]

I’m sure vamps would love to have a nice juicy steak, but then they’d have to hork it up right after once Blush of Life wears off

This has happened to my coterie more than a few times in our campaign thus far, albeit usually involving alcoholic drinks rather than food.

[craggy coyote]

also without eats food merit it all tastes like ash

you have eternal life and can never enjoy a French fry again

genuinely awful

[mighty zephyr]

Humanity 10

Solely for eating French fries

[viscid stratus]

I have made the joke about my Hecata that since she was a rich socialite white girl, so the pattern of having bites of nice food in ultra expensive restaurants and then (CN: EDs) ||throwing it all up in the bathroom is actually completely normal for her and what she was already doing anyway||

[grave gulch]

i thought the same!

[frank atlas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgKadkOI1YM

[fathom haven]

Just a fun VTMB2 kill

[strong bronze]

Stupid idea

Werewolf pack that tries to operate like a special forces squad

But who's only frame of reference to how they operate is rainbow six siege and doorkickers

[fathom haven]

So

Dies Ultimae

[strong bronze]

Quick Google search...

God dammit

[fathom haven]

Aka, my second favorite Glass Walker camp

[strong bronze]

One day I will have an original idea

[fathom haven]

And I know it'll be great

[strong bronze]

wait can someone explain the difference between

tribe and camp then

[nimble gale]

Short version, camps are subgroups within a tribe

[strong bronze]

ok so

you have the garou nation,the decentralized society that the garou rally around

you have the tribes,which are the 12 clans that make the garou nation

you have the camps,which are phylosophical and political groups within a tribe

and THEN you have the pack,which is whenever 2 to 12 werewolves decide to form a group to do anything

[mighty zephyr]

ya

[fathom haven]

Yep

[strong bronze]

thank

[steel agate]

My brother got me the V5 Players Guide as a belated birthday gift, and ngl I kinda wish I had it when I was making my character for the Chronicle I’m on right now lol

LOTS more clear and inspiring for getting a handle on things

It has also taught me that a Tremere-led coterie is informally known as a goddamnit, and that has absolutely made my day

[clear delta]

Quote I saw

Buy your local uratha a beer for dealing with this insanity as their job

[marble sorrel]

Nope. Our local werewolves gets dunked on for being worse at maintaining the natural and spiritual order than the local vampires.

Then we run away very fast because werewolves do not take dunking on them with good grace

[viscid stratus]

Also, finally got around to completing this
-# The Clan book for the V5e tremere sub faction I wrote myself
https://lithuasil.itch.io/soulsworn-sisterhood

[frank atlas]

CN: Cults, homelessness, casual violence, some nudity and fun with blood, Yuri so toxic it smells of bitter almonds.

[viscid stratus]

The "It's a cult of bloodwitches" sign raises a lot of questions that are answered by the "It's a cult of bloodwitches" sign 😛

[vast blaze]

Having learned that Sun Wukong is a figure in WoD, I now kinda wanna play as a were-ape that's attempting to redeem himself with his help

[strong bronze]

..what pool would one use for a deodorant flamethrowe

[viscid stratus]

I mean, Willpower for Rötschreck

the actual damage is probably pretty neglible

[mighty zephyr]

Dex+Craft or something

[high current]

if its just using hairspray/deodorant through a lighter, i'd say dex+athletics or firearms to aim it, but an aerosol flamethrower is kinda wimpy afaik

it would still provoke rotschreck and do some damage, of course

[viscid stratus]

I really don't see it doing damage tbh, unless someone has been doused in oil first

[strong bronze]

i mean

lots of people treat vampires as if they are made of straw

[viscid stratus]

even straw takes a while to light up with an aerosol flamethrower tbh, unless you've had the special effects department modify the can first

and like the thing is, you are not getting more than a fraction of a second of exposure against a non stationary target

and if the leech is already immobilized, why are you rolling dice/bothering instead of just using a lighter

[craggy coyote]

ranged throwing weapons are athletics id say this is firearms of some kind and would probably do a flat 1 agg and triggerfrenzy on a hit because this can happen;

https://youtu.be/uqD9ifcTN6g?si=uTzJzll4cKBU6d9U

also given the limited range you are in melee or you are doing nothing, good luck and pray they don't have potence

[vast blaze]

Eh, dunno about agg

[high current]

its fire

[vast blaze]

Fire shouldn't automatically equal agg

[high current]

it DOES to vampires

that's the rule

[vast blaze]

Oh wait yeah

Shit

I'm stupid

I've been playing so much Mage I forgot fire deals agg damage to vampires

[viscid stratus]

Fire needs to deal damage first, then that damage is treated as agg for vampires

you do not deal one agg to a vampire by flicking a matchstick at them, even though it's fire

[fathom haven]

So I know we've talked about what our favorite/least favorite clans are, but what about bloodlines

[viscid stratus]

-# well I mean a little further up I wrote a whole book about a Tremere bloodline, so I'll go with 'that one' :v

[fathom haven]

For most favourite, I gotta go with Gargoyles, and for least favorite, "True" Brujah

[fathom haven]

Very fair very fair 🤘

[viscid stratus]

What's your beef with the true brujah?

[fathom haven]

Holier than thou attitude, and I don't think vampires should have access to anything related to time magic, even if it ain't truly magic

I'm a much bigger fan of the punk/rebel/rabble aesthetics personally as well

I'm a sucker for making Biker Kindred

[viscid stratus]

-# (Also Shoutout to the Milliners, a whole bloodline founded on the monumental occasion of "Andreas Giovanni kind of liked one of his lawyers that one time)

[mighty zephyr]

I find the Trujah boring from a story standpoint more than a mechanics one

It's all very "I am you but cooler"

[fathom haven]

Plus, as someone who gets EXTREMELY overzealous about things, their clan weakness hits home for me

[mighty zephyr]

I dont think i have a least favorite outside of like

Idk, Blood Brothers? Do they count

[nimble gale]

I don't think the Trujah are bad, but I think it's easy to use them poorly, but that goes for basically every bloodline in the tal'mahe'rah

[fathom haven]

See I can't bring myself to hate blood brothers

[nimble gale]

and the TMR itself

[mighty zephyr]

The TMR is not a good book no

[nimble gale]

also apparently I can't type

[viscid stratus]

Very fair.
-# After I had to write V5 Temporis for one of my players, I'm very tempted to write Clan Book: True Brujah next, but in fairness, that would very much be a "Clan Book: My crackpot theory on what the Trujah actually are" rather than any of this Troille business

[fathom haven]

In the VTM game I'm running, the Trujah have been wiped tf out, completely, my hate for them is that true

[nimble gale]

if I had to pick a favorite and least favorite bloodline I'd probably pick, hmm. Daughters of Cacophony for most favorite, and least favorite's hard because they all have their uses. Maybe Koldunic Tzimisce on the sheer fact that why do you keep writing them up in bloodline sections of books when even textually they aren't as eperate bloodline you arse

and even that's purely a meta thing because I love koldunism

[fathom haven]

No that's so fair

[mighty zephyr]

Technically tremere are my least favorite bloodline I guess

[fathom haven]

Both of the Tzimisce bloodlines arent even bloodlines technically

[mighty zephyr]

Considering they arent a real clan

[viscid stratus]

-# The Soulsworn Sisterhood also uses the mechanics of koldunic sorcery, just not any of the baggage <.<

[fathom haven]

Good, screw Tremere

[nimble gale]

Fuck the Tremere, everyone hates the Tremere, says literally every Tremere I've ever seen

[fathom haven]

Even the Tremere hate the "clan" that is a 17 step pyramid scheme that you can't even really advance in

[viscid stratus]

Hey!
-# I like the Tremere, I just hate what 5e did with them
-# so I wrote my own Telyavel splinter faction 🤷‍♀️

[mighty zephyr]

And for me the 5th edition changes are the only reason they're bearable

[fathom haven]

"B-But blood sorcery"

L+Potence+Celerity+Mach fuck yeah movement+Stake in your chest+my size 12 punk boots in your teeth

Brujah forever

[mighty zephyr]

I dont think any bloodline particularly stood out to me as being cooler than the base clan

But I am also of the opinion that every vampire should be in a bloodline

[viscid stratus]

"This is why we try not to associate with leeches. Uncivilized beasts, the lot of them"
-# :v

[fathom haven]

That was Lupine me, Leech me is much more unbearable

[viscid stratus]

Tbf, you can't exactly logistically put every PC in a bloodline, cause a lot of them don't know their sire

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah you can

[viscid stratus]

-# To be clear, the Soulsworn Sisterhood also hates the Pyramid Tremere
-# The white worm kind of screwed the pooch on this one

[mighty zephyr]

I dont mean every pc I mean every vampire ever

[nimble gale]

actually wait, do the Pander count as a bloodline for this discussion, because if they do then they're myf avorite bloodline

[fathom haven]

I play Gangrels, Brujah, and Nosferatu, I'm not here to be your friend (right away, I'm secretly a huge softy of course), I'm here to kick shit in

Mind you, I will also play a Ravnos and Tzimisce from time to time

Hell even Ventrue

[mighty zephyr]

Unless every "normal" clan is from the same methuselah or elder I feel like every bloodline should be dominated by powerful individuals who shaped it

Cuz like, they were

Which is also why I think your discipline spread should be decided less by clan and more:
1 from your clan
1 from your sire
1 from your predator type

[high current]

favorite bloodline pre-V5 is probably Baali, not that i have or ever will get to play them
favorite bloodline in V5 is the Pisanob, of the Hecata, because hee hee hoo hoo ghost shenanigans

im still salty i rolled up a Pisanob for a game that ended up only lasting 1 session, and nobody i know has tried to run another game since

[vast blaze]

I FUCKING LOVE GARGOYLES

#1 GARGOYLE FAN RIGHT HERE BAYBEEEEEEEEEE

Not as fond of the Harbingers of Skulls though

They just feel like Nosferatu but with the airs of a Ventrue

[fathom haven]

WE LOVE GARGOYLES

[high current]

oh my least favorite would be uhh antitribu bloodlines as a collective because wdym i gotta designate myself as being in the wrong faction by saying its a bloodline???
aside from that though, as much as i like Temporis, Trujah are my least favorite fluff-wise because of the 'im you but better' shit

[craggy coyote]

Meneleans have the stoic brujah angle, but an actual inner conflict and clan culture that's compelling being "angry af" and trying to hold it in instead of wrecking things

They are IMO Trujah but better

[vast blaze]

Besides Lure of Flames and that one Vicissitude power, are there any ways for vampires to control fire?

I know there's Koldunic sorcery but that's magma

[mighty zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/molotov-niko-niko-niko-oneshot-niko-plush-molotov-niko-plush-gif-23957977

[vast blaze]

Lol

I mean Discipline-wise

Or magic maybe

Mostly just trying to figure out how else my dragon-themed Gargoyle might breathe fire, given you'd have to be a pretty shitassed dragon to not breathe fire

I mean I guess I could reflavor Heat Wave from steam/extreme heat to just outright flame?

[fathom haven]

Why not get some protean, just straight up turn into a dragon

[vast blaze]

But then I'd have to contrive a reason for it to wither targets instead of burning them, and also a reason for why it doesn't trigger Rotshcreck

[vast blaze]

Protean lacks any sort of fire manipulation

...also if I wanted to do that I'd just learn Vicissitude for Horrid Form

[mighty zephyr]

All of the fire breathing is 6+ dots

[vast blaze]

Piss

[fathom haven]

Original dragons breathed poison

[vast blaze]

This is true

[mighty zephyr]

There is no singular "original dragon"

[fathom haven]

You know what I mean

[vast blaze]

...eh, it's probably best to just stick to Lure of Flames instead of trying to make something else work

Sorry

[fathom haven]

All good friend

Dragon themed Gargoyle is sick af btw

[vast blaze]

Aye, he's my favorite vampire I've made

[fathom haven]

Extremely fair

[vast blaze]

Gaze upon my lad

[fathom haven]

Hell yeaaah

[vast blaze]

Who I love to autistically hyperfixate over

[fathom haven]

Me w my characters tbh

I miss being a player

[craggy coyote]

Genearlly no, you'd have to homebrew some stuff.
Koldunic sorc in v5 can let you tunr into flame at the hgihest levels IIRC so that's neat

or escape into flames unharmed

Do not remember the books off the top though

[vast blaze]

Wow who is this handsome lad

[vast blaze]

Stupid thought

[fathom haven]

👀