#World of Darkness

1 messages · Page 53 of 1

hybrid dock
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if nothing else, you could make a monster

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...ah there is one use of it then

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an elder strix might give out such power in an accord

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perhaps to a diablerist or even a VII

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boost you up a couple levels, throw your humanity down, that's a lot of power for a vampire

heady kestrel
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dangerous for a Strix

but making a BP 7 Humanity 0 vampire feels like it could Cause Some Problems

hybrid dock
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also makes for a good host for a strix

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commit some extra diablerie, and you might regain that shadow potency invested

mighty zephyr
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@hybrid dock the reason a strix would do that is because they enjoy the sensations of a body and dont actually mind losing shadow potency that much

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When they get big enough they just kill themselves to make more Strix anyhow

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Also because you can shove a boss strix into a werewolf

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For a dark souls phase transition

hybrid dock
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but also yeah werewolf phase transition

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then again this still takes between 5-20 days depending on host

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i guess what gets me about synthesis is that unlike a lot of the other powers here for preserving a body or getting new ones...
it's very...permanent

mighty zephyr
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Keep in mind

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As long as the strix is in it the vampire doesnt become a draugr

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Because strix dont have humanity

hybrid dock
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ye

mighty zephyr
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So a potency 1 vampire possessed by a strix can immediately diablerize as many vampires as it wants

hybrid dock
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this is true

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a high enough level strix is very likely to survive the process

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free kindred body

mighty zephyr
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A strix needs to be shadow potency 6 in the first place

hybrid dock
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ye

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but the roll is power + finesse, and at shadow potency 6, those might be pretty high. depends on how the strix is built

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13-18 is what the book says

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and if they survive there's no guarantee they can still possess the host. you need shadow potency 4 to possess kindred

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this is probably way more useful for like, a very elder strix that doesnt wanna do something boring like split mitose, and instead wants to get spicy with it and go on a diablerie streak.
at least for "evil ass strix scheme for evil ass strix"

clear delta
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@olive anvil
Here is the thread for owod and nwod

hallow marlin
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well that session went well

image-3.png
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:3

marble sorrel
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Any fight you walk away from!

rapid glacier
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I have sincere concerns about that PC's ability to walk, goddamn

heady kestrel
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Thinking about fetches in changeling again

patent talon
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If I ever get to play Changling I'd definitely have my PC's fetch have basically improved their old life significantly. Been a more attentive spouse, raised the kids to be honest, responsible adults, well liked and respected at their job.

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What do you do if you were a deadbeat in your past life, escaped the Hedge and the thing pretending to be you is like the guy in Its a Wonderful Life after he met the angel. He's running for Mayor!

fathom haven
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Sigh

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I will have to run a multi splat soon huh

heady kestrel
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I find them very sympathetic and like them a lot.

Also the fact they grow alongside the changeling(at least if I’m recalling the mechanics correctly) means having a Full Rival Fetch would be funny

You are totally the sort of person who would become a rival with another you, and it appears the fetch preserved that lmao

patent talon
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||then you kiss||

heady kestrel
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||kissing your fetch is based||

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They do get a discord ping(and dysphoria) the moment you get back to earth

Plenty of prep time

patent talon
patent talon
heady kestrel
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Yeah

The fetch becomes aware that you exist, and aware they are a fetch at around the same time

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and then unlocks magic powers the first time you make eye contact

patent talon
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Oh fuck that's awesome, I remember stuff about they might just start throwing their shadow at you or something instinctually

mighty zephyr
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I sidnt actually know that

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Terrifying

valid merlin
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They have a bunch of weird shit they can potentially do

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Huntsmen can also use fetches for surveillance IIRC

heady kestrel
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They can yeah

its part of the paranoia around them that gets them shanked in alleyways by the summer court

patent talon
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Awesome

mighty zephyr
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Remember to beat your fetch to death with a rock

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It is always good to beat your fetch to death with a rock

patent talon
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My sad changeling, realising he has no place in his old life, goes to see one of his fetch's mayoral rallies just to see how it goes. He makes eye contact with the fetch, and the fetch realises all the strange feelings that have made him snap at coworkers, neglect his wife and feel something is wrong is from this doppelganger in the crowd

heady kestrel
patent talon
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Crazy, like do they "want" to do that, any more than it being a fear response, or is it like an automatic thing?

valid merlin
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Can be either

heady kestrel
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I think a lot of them it starts off automatic but they can unlock more if they lock in

patent talon
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Do they get something out of it for killing you/letting you get taken by the huntsmen or are they just like a walking claymore mine

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Or is that another "depends"?

heady kestrel
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It might make them stop feeling like they are made of cloth and animal bones

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Also the huntsmen might be threatening/manipulating them

patent talon
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Thats fair

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I am kinda obsessed with this idea of a changeling who has given up hope of getting his old life back, maybe not made peace with it but not pursuing it and a fetch who really wants to have it out for him

pure mauve
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so do fetches know they're fetches? I'm not 100% clear on that.

heady kestrel
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I feel like the big thing is the idea that it will make them stop feeling like an imposter

fetches don’t know they are fetches until you appear, and then suddenly they are painfully aware that they don’t breath and they don’t have a heartbeat and that their hands are made of cloth and instead of teeth their mouth is draw on in sharpie

pure mauve
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Ah. So not just dysphoria, but knowing why they feel it as opposed to just a vague "Something Is Very Wrong With Me".

mighty zephyr
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Thats still probably dysphoria

heady kestrel
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I forget if fetches can Seal or not

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Because they do have glamour

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I know huntsmen can unseal but not seal

pure mauve
daring hazel
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How do Stric reproduce? I had an idea once that they spawned from sleeping vampires

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How common are Huntsmen? Id assume. Sort of but not ubiquitous

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Never. Read pr bought anything second edition

mighty zephyr
mighty zephyr
clear delta
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Strong enough strix can create a portal to the dimension

hybrid dock
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they can mitose OR they can just...sometimes appear

daring hazel
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nodnod

vast blaze
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Would you lot say a vampire whose body was physically altered by some quirk of vampirism (being a Gargoyle, being a Nosferatu, Vicissitude, etc.) would retain those physiological changes if cured of vampirism? Or would they revert to normal human physiology?

marble sorrel
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Likely the latter. The grace of god Likely wouldn't make the cure suck that much

hybrid dock
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Yeah I figure it would be the latter if it’s nosferatu at least

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…if the physical changes are due to other stuff maybe they stick around

fathom haven
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In my brain, it would make sense that they revert back, but there's always some reminder, a twisted limb, a hunch back, a scared up face, etc

clear delta
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If it was a change they like and can be mundane, should allow to keep it
Like transition

nimble sundial
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In one of the novels, Vykos lost the ability to use vicissitude and returned to their mortal appearance

mighty zephyr
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That was back when Viss was an alien virus though, I think.

fathom haven
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That's vicissitude though, a Nosferatu's changes are set via the vampiric curse, so I would think that if they became mortal again, it would stick around in a more mundane form

nimble sundial
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It’s been years since I read that so I don’t remember the details

fathom haven
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There's a bit in the VTM Nosferatu Clan book (the 2nd edition one I believe) that any sort of vicissitude done to a Nosferatu's features either 1. Doesn't work or 2. Eventually reverts back to what it was, so in my brain, your changes are perminit even if you can become mortal again, obviously to a lesser extent

mighty zephyr
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I think losing the Curse means losing the bane

fathom haven
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Oh I agree, but that drastic change to your body should still leave some sort of mark, even if it is just a scar, a somewhat twisted limb, etc

patent stirrupBOT
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IWRC there is a bit of fiction that's Mummy: The Resurection related that has a Nos Child of Osrius becoem human when Osirus comes back and grants all of them humanity.

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But the Children of Osrius are Weird before that. and M:tR is a weird gameline

marble sorrel
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I like mummy. Kinda sad it's on the 'likely never getting an update' list with demon.

patent stirrupBOT
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Mummy or Mummy The Resurection? as those are different. but also we do get why M:tR is not getting a 5e. it's vary.... oWoD

mighty zephyr
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Mummies are still probably showing up

marble sorrel
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Mummy the Resurrection, yes

mighty zephyr
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They were explicitly mentioned as being one of the ones they were looking at including somehow

marble sorrel
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...that seems kinda at odds at the stated intent to avoid religious horror.

mighty zephyr
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I mean they do a lot of religious horror

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They just dont make entire books about it

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Even then we have Cults of the Blood Gods

fathom haven
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Look at the entirety of the Lasombra clan

marble sorrel
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Sure but...that's what Resurrection IS. You're on a mission from a tangibly real god fighting the agents of another god.

mighty zephyr
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Thats why I said mummies are gonna show up

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Not that they are gonna be playable

marble sorrel
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Man it's suffering being a fan of Fallen, Dreaming and Resurrection.

velvet sparrow
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Feels somewhat appropriate

Didn't they say they were doing Dreaming?

fathom haven
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Gods I hope so

mighty zephyr
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Mage and then Dreaming

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Mage is definitely 100% next then they will start working on Dreaming

velvet sparrow
fathom haven
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Dreaming my beloved

marble sorrel
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I really hope they don't pull Lost stuff into Dreaming.

fathom haven
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Why not?

marble sorrel
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They're two fundamentally different games with dramatically different themes.

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They don't really mesh

fathom haven
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That's fair

hybrid dock
nimble gale
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I introduced a guy in a VtM game I'm in to changeling the dreaming becuase he loves knights and chivalry, sot hat was nice

fathom haven
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I LOVE Changeling, both Lost and Dreaming, with my whole heart

mighty zephyr
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I still think both can thrive together in a wonderful mix

fathom haven
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As long as I get my Troll/Ogre fix, I'm set

marble sorrel
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I really don't see how they'd mix when thier view of what fae IS is mutually incompatible.

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And it would kinda weaken the themes of Dreaming, which is focused on Dreaming connections to humans being good for both humans and the Dreaming.

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And on a pure 'there isn't infinite development' front: I wouldn't want page count in a Dreaming revival used on a different game. Let Lost be Lost, without blurring CoD and WoD.

patent stirrupBOT
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We dont know the lost all that well, but every thing we here about it is like the poler opasite of dreaming

fathom haven
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I just wish to be a big lad, that's all I want from my Changeling game

marble sorrel
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Dreaming Trolls are fun

patent stirrupBOT
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the slow tragity of the death of creatity, dose not like seem to mesh well with the trama analog that Lost seesm like it is to us

marble sorrel
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Werewolf: 'It's a fairy, how tough can he be' slapped by a strength 9 guy

fathom haven
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Dreaming Trolls are extremely fun, and I have a lot of fun with the Lost Ogres as well! I think that's why I'm open to running/playing in either, and don't even get me started on my beloved Thallian Ogres! 2 free strength dots AND never botch a strength roll!

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Plus you can sniff out who is who and who did what, all at the cost of being a little dumb

marble sorrel
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I like the focus on oaths, where 'strength of an oath' is very literal

fathom haven
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As someone who makes oaths to friends and loved ones, it's very fun to make a character with

nimble gale
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still want to play the dreaming character I've been fiddling with; a seelie redcap of all things, a knight of House Liam with a lot of catholic guilt over an unnamed sin she commited when she first came into her changeling soul (she ate her family's dog)

mighty zephyr
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I am not relitiagating our arguments, I am just saying I think can be done well because of the many reasons I have stated in the past.

valid merlin
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It's too bad Chronicles is fucking dead now

fathom haven
nimble gale
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because you don't see seelie redcaps often... err, for good reason... but also having a 'just becuase I am a Knight does not mean I am no longer a Redcap' scene where she takes off her helmet and just eats a villian would be really fun

fathom haven
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I am unfortunately too much of a sucker for playing large lads 😔 so I shall stick with Trolls and Ogres for now, but I was pretty close to playing a Redcap a little while ago

marble sorrel
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I do find it funny that since the Redcap thing is very much a mystical conceptual ability that losing a limb is horrifying but remarkably less deadly than you'd expect

fathom haven
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Rankle Chicken-Legs, equip with mobile meat grinder and comically sized meat cleaver

marble sorrel
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But it also means that even werewolves find it a bit 'wait i thought it was tough enough to avoid that' as the redcap declares you -1 arm

fathom haven
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Favorite werewolf tribe?

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I've got two different answers for 2e and W5

marble sorrel
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Fianna

fathom haven
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Bone Gnawers for 2e, and Silent Striders for W5

nimble gale
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Glasswalkers

fathom haven
fathom haven
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I find their treatment of Metis Garou a bit hard to stomach, but other than that I think they're cool af

high current
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Glasswalkers for WtA, tie between Iron Masters and Bone Shadows for WtF

marble sorrel
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I find the choice of name brilliant as the Fianna are associated with Irish werewolf legends already

fathom haven
fathom haven
marble sorrel
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And avoids 'you can only be one nationality' by the fianna having been a Warrior Band one joined, not a tribe

fathom haven
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Sigh

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I love Get of Fenris but I fucking hate Get of Fenris

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They could have been so good

high current
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you like the Get but you hate the other people who like the Get, presumably vvvSip

fathom haven
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Exactly

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I think they were written poorly, as a person of Nordic descent myself, but I also understand that the late 90's/early 2000's was a weird time for writing but also like

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W h y

marble sorrel
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Yeah. I love the Fianna but a lot of writers just went 'booze booze booze'

fathom haven
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Yeah :[

nimble gale
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the glass walkers are just really appealing to me. Cockroach is a really fun totem

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and the cyberwolves are a hilarious camp

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"Hey you know how we're peak predator killing machines?" "Yeah?" "What if we were even mroe peaker?" "PROTEIN SHAKES AND RISKY SURGERIES LET'S GO"

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wolf of wall street ass tribe

fathom haven
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Glass Walkers rock, and I'm a big fan of Cyberdogs and Dies Ultimae

nimble gale
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Dies Ultimae are cool in theory but their totem's name always makes me giggle

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"Clashing Boom-Boom", really?

patent stirrupBOT
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Yeah like some how the Windigo and Utena are manage to be like comparative decently written for the National cans as it were, at least by the stanards of oWoD

fathom haven
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Well, it'll make anyone giggle until they manifest into the room they're in lol

nimble gale
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that's fair

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I had great fun in a mixed-splat game where I wa splaying a glass walker and another player was playing a void engineer. Our arcs in the game basically became umbral buddy cops

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"I throw the werewolf at it" became a common, uh

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battle cry, we'll say

mighty zephyr
fathom haven
mighty zephyr
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Since they were actively getting better and their whole plot was them going Woke by Revised

fathom haven
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Let's just retcon the fact that they purged all the Nazis in their ranks the old fashion way

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I hate it here

radiant marsh
fathom haven
clear delta
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Wtf: hunters in darkness abd bone shadows

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Dunno much about wta tribes
Which do you guys think I'd vibe with?

fathom haven
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If you like Hunters in Darkness and Bone Shadows, you might like Uktena/Ghost Council for WtA

mighty zephyr
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Galestalkers or Ghost Council yeah

clear delta
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Ah galestalkers are a renamed tribe, nice

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Yeah ghost council and galestalkers are cool

daring hazel
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I have only read one novel related to the settings. A Vampire the Requiem novel. In which it is revealed that the Prince of (Chicago?) in life had a huge bushy mountain man beard. That he has to have shaved off every evening.

mighty zephyr
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Yup

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That's why a lot of vampires take time to groom their childe before the Embrace so they look their best forever

clear delta
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Huh, thought you could do a thing to make a change permanent, in requiem

radiant marsh
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It still amuses me how the Pure Tribes in Forsaken are in many ways "The Garou, but make them objectively wrong about everything"

mighty zephyr
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It's pretty fun

clear delta
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One tribe is deranged spirit and plague worshippers

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Another is primitivists. A chunk of them break the tribal ban against using human made stuff

daring hazel
mighty zephyr
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Well the Fire-Touched aren't really able to be mapped to any Garou tribe

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They're much more their own thing

radiant marsh
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Zealotry, obsession with blood purity, and utter rejection of humanity, respectively. The flaws dialed up to 11, but without the fig-leaf of "You are holy warriors fighting for the soul of the Earth."

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Ivory Claws are probably the easiest

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Old-school Silver Fangs taken to the extreme

clear delta
radiant marsh
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Ratkin

clear delta
radiant marsh
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2e changed how Harmony worked. But I liked the idea in 1e that Pure almost universally had low Harmony. Because the metaphysics of being a werewolf don't care about your ideology.

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And their reaction to this was also uniformly

clear delta
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"Facts don't care about your feelings!"
-Ivory claw about to hit 0 Harmony

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Hm hart wardens do seem a bit similar to hunters in darkness, with the whole caring for special spots and territory thing

mighty zephyr
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You could make a pretty particularly gruesome Hart Warden

clear delta
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Creepy hart warden who manipulates and exploits creepy local legends

mighty zephyr
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@orchid void Missy vibes inbound and I know you love talking about your Missy

clear delta
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Maybe recruits local spirits with folklore

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Ah, information and defense network of spirits

daring hazel
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Hmm. Thinking about what I remember about different splats from reading Chronicles first edition stuff

orchid void
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yall wanna hear about my girl

mighty zephyr
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Missy is good u all should hear about missy

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OH ACTUALLY HEY DEL

orchid void
mighty zephyr
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A friend of mine is doing Werewolf warform commissions

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if you wanted to get Killing Form Missy

orchid void
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'Jesus, the girl knows a lot of murder ballads.' is the most common review of Missy's performance in dingy bars and run-down roadhouses. The pounding of her stomps in lieu of drums, the twang of the guitar, the howling croon of her voice- it has an effect on people. Especially when her specialty is digging up old folk-songs about monsters and murders and cannibals, and tying them to more recent events, a layered story of tragedy and blood. Every song is a warning, about what comes when one trespasses past where men were meant to stand. Missy don't care one way or the other what lessons people take from her music, its goal is not so much to educate, as to foreshadow the deaths that follow in her wake.
daring hazel
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Hmm.

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Vampire the Requiem. Both the Clans and the Covenants have a good sense of identity.

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Fron my memories.

orchid void
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Yeah!!!

clear delta
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Yup

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All the main clans fill a vampire niche

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Animal, monster, seductor, aristocrat, shadowy creature

daring hazel
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Mage the Awakening.
The. Different towers people awaken to. Is solid, comes with strong imagery, but flexible. I've read a discussion thread that tried to expand with five more Watchtowers.

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Which were also cool.

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The. Orders are pretty solid. Especially with the addition of later books. And if you have read Dave Brookshaws campaign logs.

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The Seer ministries are also well done. Though I think Pantechnicon should be associated with the Spirit Exarch.

mighty zephyr
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The Seers kick ass

clear delta
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I love the seers

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My horrible guys

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One guy makes clone sons and kills them when they fail to take his ideology

patent talon
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Seers are up there with the best antagonists out of all the CoD splats, in my view

patent talon
orchid void
clear delta
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Mind ministry is that one about nationalism

mighty zephyr
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Yeah Panopticon is using the connections between everyone to become an inevitable and all-seeing eye

daring hazel
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Pantechnicon is a minor ministry who deal with technology.

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I think they are mentioned in the Seer book as sharing the Matter arcanum with Mammon.

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I like uniqueness so I thought Spirit would be appropriate with them.

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I dont think there is much information

orchid void
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ohhh that's my b

daring hazel
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But I imagine their ideology involves the subordination of humanity to technology

orchid void
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i remember panopticon as anti-guardians

daring hazel
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Yeah. Panopticon is.

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Pantechnicon might be related to Free Council. Dont have the 1e Seers book readily available

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I also once brainstormed other Ministries

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Ministry of Karma a former great ministry tied to racism and classism that eventually fragmented and lost power due to racism and classism.

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Ministry of Nepenthe which would have ties to the drug trade.

valid merlin
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Panopticon has a very fun prelacy bonus

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You get a weak connection to any person

daring hazel
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Sweet

valid merlin
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The Crowns in general have some fun stuff

daring hazel
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And a ministry associated with Death who are less interested in directly oppressing the Sleepers/performing social engineering. And more on. Destroying hints of the Supernal

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Werewolf. The Werewolf the Foresaken Tribes are okay but felt weak in 1e. Ive heard good things for second edition

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However the Pure Tribes feel rather well defined.

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I think. Partially because they are antagonists. And. Honestly.

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Actually. The Foresaken have some identitt when I imagine the. From the outside

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And hooray. The veey small suggestion I made is apparently still there

viscid stratus
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Amusing WoD thought of the day:
If humanity ever truly finds out about vampires, humanity wins.
If humanity ever truly finds out about lupines, humanity wins.
If humanity ever truly finds out about mages, they'd throw a fucking party.

mighty zephyr
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Ehhhh, I don't think so

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I think given current circumstances actually having substantial proof that a shadowy group of all-powerful individuals controlling world governments and history to the detriment of everyday life makes people pretty violently upset.

hybrid dock
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i assumed it referred to the mages throwing a party

craggy coyote
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if humanity finds out about vampires they might win but the practical reality is probably a gruelingly long war by human standards to bring kindred to heel.

you think class disparity is bad now? imagine what happens when the billionaires learn there's a secret cabal of immortals out there and that if they throw enough mercenaries at them they can become immortal.

hybrid dock
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or make a deal with vampires about it

clear delta
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Project moon getting me interested in vampire again

rapid glacier
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Playing in my first ever Mage 20th game this week

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Stoked to play my Art Professor and alleged Art Forger

orchid void
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it’s homage

hybrid dock
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Question, in requiem, if you torpor voluntarily, can you control the duration? Or is it just humanity and potency calculations no matter what

heady kestrel
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Been reading through Night Horrors: Spilled Blood for vampire the requiem 2e

and I am curious if anyone here has done anything with The Everlasting, they seem really neat
I would also like to hear any lore theories folks have on what they possibly could be

orchid void
mighty zephyr
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Or your childe or a friend

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"Yo feed me blood in 10 years"

hybrid dock
mighty zephyr
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You can

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Its called getting staked

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Or losing all your blood

hybrid dock
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well

...not an attractive option but fair enough

marble sorrel
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...oh hey, that was hidden off. I hadn't realized that Changelings join Werewolves and Mages in 'Can have the Totem Background'.

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Makes sense. Nature and Spirits is very much their wheelhouse too

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'Hello, I am a changling with defensive traits up and Reindeer totem. I have a soak TN of...3'

marble sorrel
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Silly WoD math: A Changeling built for it is actually tougher than a Werewolf against anything that doesn't do Aggravated Damage.

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Which makes sense when Changeling isn't just 'Pixie' or even 'Fey Lord' but also like 'Hey, I'm a Troll with Silver Magic Cybernetics'

clear delta
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@sharp olive back on mage talk
Dunno how much summoning of mental entities Ascension does, but Awakening has competing groups of mages that specialize in it
Clavicularius claim to be founded by solomon
While bene ashmedai claim to come from an apprentice of solomon that secretly learned from his master's inner demon, Asmodeus

patent stirrupBOT
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IWRC there are not specifically mental entities in Ascension, there are spirits that can't manifest and must possess some one but like out side of spirits there is only physical and semi-physical beings

clear delta
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Oh, isn't there a mental umbra?

patent stirrupBOT
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There is the dreaming but that's the relm of the fey and part of the near umbra kinda

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And anyone who can see chimarical beings can see things from there in the real world as they are

high current
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there is also the high umbra which is also known as the astral and is not the dreaming

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it just isnt touched on by any splat except for Mage usually, cause werewolf mostly deals with the middle umbra and wraith/vampire mostyl the lower umbra/underworld

digital siren
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its deadlock but since its WOD

high current
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technocrats beat an antediluvian, a methusela is nothing vvvSip

mighty zephyr
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(They didnt actually, they just got the last hit in)

high current
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(on a less jokey note though, the technocrat has infinitely more options available than the methusela, and if the technocrat has any advanced notice he'll have time to prepare some kind of bullshit sun laser or fire weapon)

patent stirrupBOT
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Any mage whit enough correspondence can deal with any vamp by just opaning a coraspondance window to some place with sunlight

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Amusing it's not an early edition ware you can turn one into a lawnchair wiht matter

craggy coyote
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Assuming its a solo, I actually think its an even fight, mostly because while the technocrat has a lot of options methusalahs also fall into a category of power called "can do whatever the fuck the plot demands of them"

#

Not quite antediluvians, but then the technocracy's strongest enlightened scientist can't be a full ascension power mage or they wouldn't be able to exist on earth

#

and it took everything they had to kill (maybe) one of them, while methusalahs are the next step below that

mighty zephyr
#

The thing is that if we are being fair and not assuming prep time (which why would you, thats just a massive handicap), the Mage largely has one turn to meaningfully incapacitate the methuselah

#

Before the Mage ceases to exist because they got punched into goo

#

And theres a lot of ways that the vampire can do the most powerful ability: go first at a moments notice

clear delta
frank atlas
#

Watching "The Night Stalker"

#

could be wod adjacent

digital siren
#

Worth mentioning that the guy that is fighting the vampire is functionally a Sentient blackhole due to magic bs

#

so... Would be spaghettified fit?

nimble gale
#

i've played a void engineer with a black hole gun

#

sooooo

#

yes

mighty zephyr
#

Drifter just buys unstoppable ezpz

nimble gale
#

(he had the lyrics to black hole sun written on the gun because he was a soundgarden fan)

digital siren
#

The game actually has a decent modding community and the community has made his ult (the blackhole) sing blackhole sun as a sound effect

nimble gale
#

hell yeah

vast blaze
#

Would a House Flambeau whose made it their life's work to kill as many Tremere as possible realistically end up on the Red List?

#

Or would slaughtering just one single clan's members not be enough to end up there?

mighty zephyr
#

Just killing one would not be much of a blip on the radar

vast blaze
#

Right

rapid glacier
#

Hell other Tremere might try to get their contact info on the sly ; easiest way to a promotion is getting your boss killed, and even other Tremere don’t much like other Tremere

#

Assuming they, too, don’t get vaporized instantly

nimble gale
#

Damn Tremere, they ruined HouseClan Tremere!

mighty zephyr
#

I think it'd be less "I talk to you face to face" and more "I plant evidence leading you to my boss"

rapid glacier
#

Yeah probably more like that lol

mighty zephyr
#

Or they'd probably just kill him because Mages are a hassle to deal with

#

and because a young and reckless apprentice who fancies himself a monster slayer is the easiest guy to dunk on the planet

vast blaze
#

True, but this is a Mage with Arete 4, he's no apprentice

daring hazel
vast blaze
#

Lol

#

I should play Ars Magica at some point, I hear it's fun

daring hazel
#

Its interesting but never had a chance to play

clear delta
#

Reminded that apparently there's an Nmage story where some young Adamantine Arrow sees a woman in trouble, pulls out a flaming sword, covers himself in power and charges in

#

It was an illusion

#

He failed the woman's test

#

And gets lectured on responsible magic

strong bronze
#

does celerity have some sort of "catching a bullet" power

worthy sundial
#

which edition

craggy coyote
#

the red list is both a measure of threat and war crime

#

killing neonates doesn't get you on the red list

#

killing archons and people the inner circle give a rats ass about gets you on the red list

vast blaze
#

Sensible

#

So going on a crusade against the Tremere is just "Goddammit, go kill that guy", but killing Tremere leadership is "OH FUCK RED LIST HIM"

craggy coyote
#

yep

mighty zephyr
#

Cities also have their own red lists

craggy coyote
#

you know hardestadts assassination also didn't upset the rest of the circle too much because Theo wasn't immediately red listed

#

that or he's an authors favorite

mighty zephyr
#

I think he is on the list actually

#

They mention it in Gehenna

strong bronze
#

hey uh

i am going to try and run my first wod game

its going to be hunter but

i cant decide if it should be reckoning or vigil

mighty zephyr
#

Depends on your intended vibe

strong bronze
#

wym

mighty zephyr
#

It depends on the kind of game you want to run because depending on that the different games offer different things

strong bronze
#

ok but like

what do they offer

mighty zephyr
#

Vigil offers a broader toybox approach with a heavy emphasis on a sort of supernatural procedural, working within a community or system to uncover and deal with the quarry. Its about dealing with keeping your humanity in the face of the inhuman.

Reckoning 5 is more about being an outcast working around the bounds of the system to do whats right, to be the scrappy fighter against the darkness

Prior Reckoning is about being a holy paladin of the Abrahamic God tasked with striking down the impure and the wicked.

clear delta
#

Vigil offers views on other gamelines which disagree with their lore
Whether it's hunter being mistaken, or canon in your Chronicle, is up to you to decide
Just mentioning is case you check other games and see discrepancies

high current
#

also worth noting that Reckoning 5e doesn't really gel with the PCs being part of any sort of larger-scale organization, because most of those have Ulterior Motives™ for hunting shit(whether its just 'hey dont fuck with those people, theyre ours to fuck with!' or some manner of using what they get from the hunts to do weird shit), whereas Vigil has Compacts and Conspiracies that you can join in order to get access to special abilities(at least one of which does fully involve harvesting monster parts to do weird shit)

mighty zephyr
#

The compacts and conspiracies are also still morally dubious at best

clear delta
#

Conspiracies are the most dubious

high current
#

ye, but Vigil does at least offer mechanics if you decide to join them, where Reckoning goes 'hey, no, stop, bad player'

mighty zephyr
#

Reckoning is the most punk

high current
#

(like, realistically you could still run a Reckoning game with the PCs being actively part of an org, but the books dont offer as much usable info on being part of them)

mighty zephyr
#

If that is your vibe

high current
#

ye, Reckoning is punk rock 'The Man is actually real monsters who are feeding on the working class, but together we can fight them', Vigil is hopecore 'we are the light in the darkness that will defend humanity, whatever it takes'

clear delta
#

Vigil does have an Union faction

#

Also, vigil has a simplified "witch" system for you to fight instead of mages

high current
#

mechanically the biggest difference aside from org/compact and conspiracy membership is, Reckoning has Danger and Desperation, Vigil has Tactics

Danger is a measure of how aware your quarry is that they're being hunted, which the book advises the GM to tie to how many minions you have to fight, how tough security is, etc etc
Desperation is a measure of how much trouble you've gotten into as a group, and can be added to dice pools when your character is doing actions that fit their focus

Tactics are a variety of teamwork actions you can use to apply specific mechanics to stuff like luring a monster out of hiding or breaking into their hideout during a time when they're weak(during daylight for a vampire, as an example)

frank atlas
strong bronze
#

ok

#

i think i am going with reckoning

strong bronze
#

....i want to do preludes but

idk if i can manage to make it good

vast blaze
#

Give it a shot, you never know

strong bronze
#

does silver hurts garou witouth being a weapon?

mighty zephyr
#

Yes

strong bronze
#

cool so silver dust should work thank u

vast blaze
#

How monstrous are vampires on average

#

I mean I know they're far from great

#

But like, how shit is the average neonate

#

One of my STs is of the opinion that 99% are one-track-mind murder monsters that only ever think about murder and depravity and that feels... moderately extreme?

barren vortex
#

that's definitely very extreme

vast blaze
#

He apparently thinks they're almost universally murderers and rapists, which like

#

Vaguely feels like he got his perspective of them from Hunter and not actually Vampire

#

I mean I know by and large that they're not great people and that their very nature necessitates being monstrous in some form or another, especially with age, but it feels disingenuous to just blanket every vampire that isn't a PC as some grimderp ravening monster that only ever wants to be as evil as possible

#

...mostly because that's the Sabbat's schtick and I feel it detracts from them to make every vampire like that

mighty zephyr
#

On average it's just like

#

a criminal

#

someone who accepts they need to hurt people to live

vast blaze
#

Yeah, like I said, not great people on average

mighty zephyr
#

I mean you're still a bad person for killing people even if they're vampires

#

if that's the question

#

Oh I just saw the opinion

vast blaze
#

Oh, no, I'm asking if in-lore they actually are all that depraved and if people just run them as having higher Humanity than they do in lore

nimble gale
#

Many vampires are horrible people. Most of them are understandably bad people. All of them (except the ones at humanity 0) are sitll people.

#

no your ST is pretty much dead wrong

mighty zephyr
#

and nah that's dumb, vampires have free will and act like

vast blaze
mighty zephyr
#

pretty comparitively normal

vast blaze
#

hurhurhurhurhurhur

nimble gale
#

like. A 'chargen' neonate is minimum humanity... four in courage... 5.

#

(and max nine)

#

'average' would be like, 7.

#

if you take chargen as representative of average populations, most vmapires try, at least early in their careers, to be relatively humane. Which makes sense. They have a Beast to figh toff, we don't.

mighty zephyr
#

7 is explicitl average with 5-6 being comfortable ancillae and active elders

nimble gale
#

yeah

vast blaze
#

Hm

#

It's odd because in most other regards he's a good ST, he just

#

Seems to have kind of a thing against vampires

#

Which I mean, yeah, it's WoD, they're not going to be fluffy get-along-sing-kumbaya types, but his own stance just feels oddly extreme

mighty zephyr
#

Mage jealousy of the cooler splat

#

it's only natural

vast blaze
#

Nah Mage is definitely cooler

#

I can turn you into a lawn chair

mighty zephyr
#

2 pages about why you can't

vast blaze
#

Okay but I can in theory

#

...eh, more effective to just fireball you

#

BEGONE, LEECH

#

...anyway, sorry to bitch, just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy

mighty zephyr
#

10 dice counterspell

vast blaze
#

Or losing sight of the grimdark part of WoD

vast blaze
#

Welp!

mighty zephyr
#

The Mages > everything zeitgeist is deeply rooted in a lot of unfair assumptions on the part of the Mage and you should very much internalize that RAW you are hilariously easy to kill by everything and everyone.

vast blaze
#

Oh yeah no Mages are hilariously frail without some serious investment into their survivability

#

I just like slinging spells

nimble gale
#

I love castin' spells

#

this post brought to you by the shadow govenrment

vast blaze
#

Sadly, the Shadow Government doesn't like you casting spells

vast blaze
#

But again, that requires a lot of investment, even if you could absolutely get that sort of toughness right out the gate

vast blaze
#

I've a build I'm fond of using in games that allow for more chicanery than most, robot with Too Tough To Die, an Alanson Hardsuit as an innate Enhancement alongside Skeletal Enhancement, Huge Size, and Matter 3/Prime 2, shit gives a crinos-form garou a run for their money

#

He's about as subtle as a nuke going off but shit if he don't get results

craggy coyote
# vast blaze But like, how shit is the average neonate

Late to this but gonna reinforce. Average neonates are prob on the "hum scale" between 5-7 depending on what kind of person they already are. Generally that's "has average human hangups to murder and depravity" on the high end (7 8 if they're real saintly), to "... Local drug dealer will consider murder if they think they can get away with it/have to do it, and are kinda creepy" on the low end (5)

#

The Cam generally doesn't want you going lower than 4 to 5 because at that point you are not just visibly monstrous, but creep out mortals and even other vampires with how fucked in the head you are

vast blaze
#

...wait so then where is my ST getting this idea that all vampires are pretty much Sabbat levels of depraved

craggy coyote
#

The fuck if I know

#

Also is it the ST or an NPC

vast blaze
#

ST

craggy coyote
#

Yeah he's uh... not exactly got what I'd call a "solid grasp" on VTM lore then

#

maybe its more univerally monstrous in Hunter's depiction

#

but generally Vampires are "monsters for a reason"

#

Doing shitty things because of circumstances and the fear of consequences

#

Your average neonate is someone who's still got human relatives from the time they were human, may even have been human longer than they were a vampire, and still relates to pop culture

#

and most vampires are neonates

#

Hell most vampires die within the first ~15 years

vast blaze
#

Apparently he thinks most games of vampire don't play accurately to the books? And that most people play them as less monstrous than they should because vampire in play doesn't tend to translate the proper level of monstrosity.

#

I'm unsure if he means the rulebooks or novels

craggy coyote
#

What books is he reading

#

Even the Novels show a wide breadth of vampire morality

#

Like... the Theo Bell novels have the guy horrified that vampires are doing human trafficking and fighting to stop it, even as he kills witnesses to the masquerade because he doesn't want there to be any more suffering or slavery that he can avoid

#

Hell even early adventure lines and later ones have vampire hunters who despite being zealots, will recognize when a vampire isn't an asshat and not ice them on sight because of it

#

Sullivan Dane for example

mighty zephyr
#

This feels like someone who read that one outlier lore bit of "vampires can only replicate their old emotions and cant feel new ones" and then read nothing else.

marble sorrel
#

Vampires are humans and that's why they can do so many terrible things.

#

To make vampire inherantly assholes removes the moral culpability.

#

Making them no worse than a wolf or snake

#

There's no pathos if you have no capability to be better and fail to live up to that potential

#

It's honestly why I tend to prefer when the Beast is a bit low-focus/background rather than a foreground thing.

#

As if you make it too big a deal and start going 'sorry guys, I guess I failed my Not Be An Asshole roll' then you start taking away the 'Yep, you did this shit' aspect.

#

(It's the same reason I have issues with how Limit is handled for most exalted splats)

#

Like Cassia in my Dark Ages game isn't a terrible person because she's a Tremere Vampire.

#

She's a Tremere Vampire because she's a terrible person.

supple quail
#

i always thought the doing horrible shit despite hating it because you have to to survive to get anywhere to live is like, the whole point of vtm

#

that’s the horror that’s the thing

clear delta
#

Personal horror

marble sorrel
#

Yeah, it's not personal horror if you're not still a person

clear delta
#

Plus the beast can't become an all around excuse

marble sorrel
#

It's sorta why I prefer when the beast as as minor as possible/has relatively light game mechanics. You give humans an inch of power and they'll go a mile to keep it.

#

I'm not a fan of 'sorry, lost control, go do some things you'll feel sad about but not that sad because it was The Beast that did it, not You' mechanics.

#

I much prefer 'hey, doing a bastard thing would be so easy now and you can't leave any chances things come back to you...right?'

#

Sorta like how lean the remaining freeholds are being promotes Changeling backstabbing and politicing for power without ever making a character do it

#

There wasn't some failed roll that made the Sidhe Nobles go 'Hey, what if we beat all those commoner leaders over the head with cold iron?'

#

There was self-interest and 'it would be the way to make sure I end up on top'

#

If that remotely makes sense?

clear delta
#

Also, this way you can play with vampires that cling onto hope and being good with tooth and nail

#

Masquerade has golconda as a more concrete hope than Requiem, but you can have your campaign allow something similar in the latter

#

I'm reminded of my Requiem oc, a woman who's an aggressively normal gangster goon

#

She doesn't care about esotérica or social climbing

#

She just clocks in and out of work

#

Protection rackets for money abd blood, patching holes in the masquerade

#

Might have her run plots doomed to fail just so other vampires don't think she has ultra secret plots they missed

marble sorrel
#

'There's no ethical consumption under capitalism' I mutter to myself as a take a bite out of the ubereats guy.

strong bronze
#

Hm

I am confused by a few things in hunter

So I am basically going to be doing a level 0 session with each player so they roleplay their first encounter with the supernatural

One of them wants to be a werewolf encounter and become a werewolf hunter which

.....how do I make it so someone who is a normal human sees a werewolf,doesn't go insane, survives the encounter and learns enough to become a hunter witouth being immediately noticed, tracked down and killed by any of the supernaturals seeing a fledgeling hunter around

clear delta
#

You can just pretend it doesn't happen in your campaign world

#

Or there's some way to block the madness and the conditions were just right

strong bronze
#

thats fair

hybrid dock
#

Vampires are awful but they’re also people I love it

strong bronze
#

....is

just a blanket "reveal the truth of the world of darkness to the masses" for a ambition too broad

clear delta
#

Nah

#

I think

#

One faction in vigil has this as a goal

strong bronze
#

....thank you Charlie.

image.png
clear delta
#

We have to kill the whale

#

The source of all evils

strong bronze
#

she just picked a random folklore creature and decided that every single one of those needs to be hunted down

nimble gale
#

my goal in life is to extinct the mothman

vast blaze
strong bronze
#

so they ended up making this

i

dunno if its a good fit for underground but

image.png
daring hazel
orchid void
#

i fed a failgirl med student to the ordo dracul just make fuckups and freaks!!

viscid stratus
#

The tremere*,** I'm currently playing is just straight up in a cult, and only capable of productive action if she has been ordered to 😭
-# this girl could absolutely not hack it as a vampire without the infrastructure and backing of a whole chantry (and the reassuring warmth of the blood bond)

strong bronze
#

....how mean would it be for the first thing my players hunt to be

Something they can't fight

#

Like a ghost

mighty zephyr
#

I mean you can "fight" a ghost but you cant defeat it through just beating it to death

#

You need to exorcise it

clear delta
#

A ghost seems like a fine first hunt

#

Spooky, a bit limited in acting, solution isn't only violence

strong bronze
#

is

#

is this right...?

image.png
mighty zephyr
#

No

#

Ghouls can never have more than one dot in a discipline, mechanically

#

So while they can purchase new 1 dot powers, thats it

strong bronze
#

is that how it has always worked?

mighty zephyr
#

Kinda but no

#

It would scale with generation in older editions

#

But now its hard locked at 1

marble sorrel
#

Famously a Ghoul from the second city kinda just kicked the ass of most actual vampires.

#

I think he had like potence 6 on his sheet?

nimble gale
#

Yeah, it depends on the generation of your domitor for ghouls. I forget how it is for revenants in earlier editions.

mighty zephyr
#

But yes, ghouls also importantly change disciplines depending on their last feeding

#

So you still have that xp locked into disciplines, but it changes if someone else feeds you

marble sorrel
#

Revs iirc in previous editions had up to 2 in family disciplines. Which was pretty good for guys with no upkeep issues

#

As unlike normal ghouls they didn't need to be fed blood to keep going

nimble gale
#

they could be, and it can deifnitely help because otherwise you're looking at 1 vitae/night with a cap of 10, but they can burn hard and then go to ground for two and a half weeks

#

one of the Revenants in my dark ages game looks 50, is closer to 90, and has multiple dots in servearl disciplines. He's a scarier combatant than mots of hte PC vampires.

marble sorrel
#

To be fair the oldest actual vampire in the PCs is like...30 at most. XD

#

They're not really making use of that immortality

nimble gale
#

lol

#

teh youngest is like. two months a vampire at this point. Still has no idea what the fuck is going on, but he knows htere's bad guys to kill.

vast blaze
#

...guess who got killed with zero recourse in the exact same fucking server again

#

This time it was werewolves hearing me offhandedly mention being a Hunter and apparently jumping straight to "KILLKILLKILLKILLKILLKILLKILLKILLKILLKILLKILL"

nimble gale
#

i'm gonna be honest wamly that server doesn't sound like it has good GMs.

marble sorrel
#

...that is...it takes a lot for me to say it but that sounds too murderous and dumb for Garou.

vast blaze
#

Especially because I'd specifically mentioned working ALONGSIDE Garou to another Garou

#

The same one that apparently decided killing me was perfectly logical

marble sorrel
#

Unless you actively said like 'I hunt werewolves' to the werewolf, there is a lot of supernatural shit that werewolves are pretty okay with seeing getting hunted.

#

Hell, a lot of werewolf solutions involve 'go get some humans who like us and hose that guy down with machine gun fire while we rip and tear'

vast blaze
#

And the kicker is these weren't NPCs

#

Four fucking players ganged up on me and fucking Wishbone'd me to death

#

In my character's sleep, while he couldn't retaliate

marble sorrel
#

Honestly, this is increasingly sounding like you stepped into the Worst Fucking Server.

#

Like pardon me getting a bit too aussie but: These guys are fucking cunts.

#

If you think you need to have conflict with another player, talk to them about it.

vast blaze
#

I don't know why I keep trying

vast blaze
marble sorrel
#

Like, Garou are Dumb Murderous Fuckers but there's limits to how dumb, murderous and fuckwit they normally are.

vast blaze
#

Vampires are all amoral sociopaths that only live to kill and make everyone miserable, the Garou Nation collectively are all xenophobic isolationist racial supremacist genocidal death cultists

marble sorrel
#

With the general assumption that PC Garou are going to be less dumb than predecessors

rapid glacier
#

Nah full stop your ST is a prick and your players are also pricks; if you made a PC hunter in a Werewolf group they should use their player brains and look for the intrigue and not just kill

#

There isn’t much behavior I can think of to justify that treatment of another player, and you don’t sound like you raise a legion of red flags

#

Was it the official WoD server or a different one

#

I dunno what our policy here is on name and shaming bad servers so don’t post it, but if it was the official WoD one I’d notify one of those admins

#

The ST has a responsibility to make a good game for everyone at the table to not waste everyone’s time; this is why internet games are such landmines, none of the editions are easy to run, but this goes beyond a WoD thing into ‘decent or considerate person’ territory

#

Were I not already at capacity with my two games I’m running I’d adopt you into one, but when one of them wraps up I’ll @ you

#

Bad tables drive good people away from great games and this one gets enough flak as it is

vast blaze
vast blaze
rapid glacier
# vast blaze You don't have to

Correct. However, as an ST, I want to. I’m out of state and away from my computer, but tomorrow I will, with your permission, DM you about getting you going and starting some pregame stuff.

#

I’d hate for more people to be turned away from the game because a handful of dipshits ruined it for them

vast blaze
#

...you're sure you have room for me?

#

What are you running, anyway? And what day and time?

#

I'm not going to get turned away just by this one server anyhow, I've had plenty of other positive experiences elsewhere

#

I appreciate the thought and I won't say no, but I'm not going to get turned away from WoD as a whole, which I've already developed a hyperfixation for, just because of one server being shitty and me not knowing when to cut my losses

rapid glacier
#

Like I said, I’ll DM you tomorrow and we can work out details and figure out a time. Might grab some regulars in here or the official server, there’s always folks dying to get a game in and I just happen to have a W5 game in my back pocket for a short chronicle

vast blaze
#

sorry

strong bronze
#

...what is the cost for a ghoul using dominate?

for vampires its a hunger check but

mighty zephyr
strong bronze
#

hm

that may be a problem

alright thank

mighty zephyr
#

If a ghoul ever uses a power that costs a Hunger roll, they instead take 1 agg

#

but the vast majority of 1 dot powers are free

hybrid dock
#

Oh this is masquerade stuff not requiem stuff

mighty zephyr
#

this is 5th yea

hybrid dock
#

Tho interestingly enough, most 1 for powers in requiem are also free which is kinda perfect for ghouls

strong bronze
#

i let a hunter player be a ghoul and

i am wondering if compell should have a cost or not

mighty zephyr
#

Oh you shouldn't have done that

#

The games are 100% not meant to be crossovered mechanically

#

If anyone is anything supernatural it should be represented by Edges

#

Adding stuff from other games is just not balanced for it at all

strong bronze
#

i mean

being a ghoul is basically

an edge that counts as two in how i made it

high current
#

there isnt really a way to represent being a Ghoul and having access to the majority of 1-dot discipline powers with the currently available Edges, so, just using V5 mechanics is probably as good as you're going to get rooSHRUG

#

like at best you can represent the 'add (discipline) to your dice pools)' powers with Unnatural Changes but otherwise eh

strong bronze
#

it basically ended up eing

1 dot in a discipline and a extra dice in strength or stamina

clear delta
#

Grabbing mysteries I recommended in another server

  • A house where a gate into the shadow exists
  • A mirror that shows what you'd rather be, or hidden parts of you. Your hidden parts may crawl out of it
  • A mass of flesh that wants to mimic people, observing and learning over time, crafting durable shells out of people it kills
  • A flood periodically bursts out of the underworld
  • A digital entity gained life, and is trapped in all videogames. Understand, and perhaps help it
    (Princess creepypasta)
#

In a game I saw in a blog, one party had a starting mystery of an apprentice being murdered by someone, which investigation reveals was done by an apprentice of another order, so there's an extra issue

craggy coyote
tough pebble
vast blaze
#

My fucking Mokole just jumped at a guy from the airvents he was crawling around in in suchid form

#

Bit the SHIT out of him

vast blaze
#

He has killed a man with his Grand Klaive in suchid form

#

This is the funniest shit I've ever gotten up to

#

...I rolled a 10 on my Dodge roll and fucking Matrix-dodged a Deagle as a lizard

#

This is fucking ridiculous

nimble gale
daring hazel
#

Creature

vast blaze
#

That entire combat was fucking stupid in the best way possible

#

I'd been scouting out the building in my lizard form, crawling through the air ducts to do so, and then everyone else ran into one of the ghouls inside the building so I decided "You know what, sneak attack time"

#

Just fucking leaped at this poor son of a bitch from the ceiling, bit him on the neck, and gave my teammate an opening to shank him and finish him off, everyone else came running because a komodo dragon launching itself out of an airvent at someone isn't exactly quiet

#

I draw my Grand Klaive, bumrush one guy and kill him, someone tries to shoot me, I do a fucking Matrix flip over the bullet and proceed to kill the guy that shot at me and a second guy while STILL in lizard form

#

Stupidest shit I've ever done, it was so peak

daring hazel
#

Giant lizard peak

vast blaze
#

Unrelated

#

Do you think those caves that are full of Stone Age human paintings are like

#

The lowest Banality places on planet earth

#

The first expressions of human creativity, who have persisted for eons through the rise and fall of civilizations, older than anything else man has created

daring hazel
#

Caves are interesting

vast blaze
#

Like, there's no fucking way that this ISN'T just overflowing with enough wonder to fill up a Changeling for life

SantaCruz-CuevaManos-P2210651b.png
#

Hell, especially the Lascaux cave paintings, they're one of the oldest examples of human art known to man

lascaux3b.png
#

If I was a vampire looking at that shit I'd regain my humanity

clear delta
#

Changelings fighting over caves as resources

mighty zephyr
#

I dont think these are meaningfully more wonderous than someone today making art, unfortunately

daring hazel
#

Do people still play Chronicles of Darkness?

heady kestrel
#

Yeah

daring hazel
#

Okay. Thanks.

valid merlin
#

still bums me out a bit that they kinda killed off CofD to not compete with WoD coming back

clear delta
daring hazel
#

Yeah.

vast blaze
#

...I'm unsure what possessed me to create this, but create it I did

Scholarly_Gargoyle_In_Suit_screenshot2.png
heady kestrel
#

Thinking about Brood Of Belial vamps

What if your humanity hit 0 but you just locked in

clear delta
#

Humanity's last gasp

heady kestrel
#

A beast that learned to ride the man

radiant marsh
hybrid dock
clear delta
#

In masquerade and requiem, what clans care the most about their members?

fathom haven
#

It depends on bloodline too in Requiem, but I'm gonna toss my hat into the ring with Nosferatu, if we're talking about caring in a general sense, Nosferatu look out for their own, clan before sect, and all that jazz

candid shadow
#

Werewolf question, are werewolves vulnerable in their human forms?

heady kestrel
candid shadow
#

Like if you’re able to hurt or kill them before or when they don’t have the opportunity to shift into their war form?

fathom haven
candid shadow
#

Ah damn

fathom haven
#

In Werewolf 5? Depends, if it's something then can pretty easily regenerate from, no, while in older editions, yes

#

Might need to reread W5 tho

candid shadow
#

Hmm… chat… if I have true faith, can I pul a Klaus Von Reinherz and punch people with cross brass knuckles?

fathom haven
#

Mmm

#

I mean

#

Yeah?

candid shadow
#

That is very good to know

fathom haven
#

You just better hope to hell that you're still dealing with the lower rungs of vamp society

#

And that your faith can hold up

candid shadow
#

Nah this is for a vampire character

#

I’m thinking of making a former priest who’s faith was waning until he turned

#

Where his faith was renewed completely

#

Now seeing himself as Job, one tested by god to prove his faith

#

I wanna make him an unarmed fighter build and wanted to think of a way to wrap that in with true faith stuff

fathom haven
#

Just remember

#

It can effect yourself as well in some instances

candid shadow
#

Oh it can?

#

Huh

marble sorrel
#

...not that I'm aware of?

#

Generally true faith tends to lack downsides beyond your general need to maintain good moral character

candid shadow
#

Oh sweet

#

Also I assume that means good moral character by the standards of your faith yah?

#

so including any moral aspects your faith demands?

fathom haven
#

I could be mistaken

#

Been a while since I've messed w true faith

marble sorrel
#

Yeah. Aininur my vampire in a Dark Ages game in a follower of Zoastranism and keeps running into some minor issues there.

#

Mostly that there's a lot of rituals that involve fire in Zoastranism.

#

And that leads to Aininur exposing herself to Red Fear Checks for her faith.

candid shadow
#

Not the best for a vampire

marble sorrel
#

On the plus side: She's picking up Path of Flame soon so her red fear checks are going to get a lot easier soon.

#

Since Path of Flame subtracts its rating from the TN of red fear checks.

#

Due to 'Look, you're a Fire Mage. You're pretty used to fire at this point, even with the vampiric issues'

candid shadow
#

Makes sense

marble sorrel
#

...hmm...I wonder how the 'target loses points of blood' powers work on non-vampire, non-mortal targets.

#

Like if I drain 5 blood points from a Werewolf or Mage.

#

It notes that draining more than 1 point with path of blood is generally lethal for a mortal

candid shadow
#

I mean they all still need blood

#

So like, I assume yah it’s very lethal

marble sorrel
#

Mostly pondering since the rank 4, Heat Wave deals 5L + 5 automatic blood loss.

#

Which basicly means 'even if the mortal survived the fire, they're dead from sheer blood loss' but it's likely a bit more complicated for woofs and mages and changelings

#

Path of Fire is just very funny if you're fighting other vampires

#

As every single power is a 'Hey, roll for Fuck It, I'm Out'

candid shadow
#

I mean, isn’t part of Mage stuff is that besides their ability to reality bend, unless they’ve really committed to transmuting themselves they’re just normal humans biologically?

#

Anything that’d kill a normal guy will kill them?

marble sorrel
#

Fair

#

Time to make some Knights Templar Toasty.

candid shadow
marble sorrel
#

it's fine, they wre bigoted against Aininur and they don't even know she's a vampire.

#

They just know she's Not Christian 😛

candid shadow
#

Although, I guess it is something a mage could do is make more blood as they lose it

#

It’s inside them so no one will see

#

So you’d avoid paradox

marble sorrel
#

Being Dark Ages paradox isn't yet a thing. It's Backlash in this era, which doesn't really care about 'who saw it'.

#

Also means they don't have Spheres yet. The Knights Templar have Angels instead.

candid shadow
#

Oh I thought it was the modern day still

#

And your vampire was just super old

marble sorrel
#

If their angelic focus is Gavri-El it could likely be a problem for Aininur

#

As that's Healing and Fire.

#

But the other three don't really do much to prevent getting Jerky-fied.

marble sorrel
#

Aininur from the Sultanate of Rum and is really grumpy to be all the way in Poland of all places.

#

But the Banu Haqim owed the local ruler a favor and she was the most expendable best choice sorcerer they had.

#

Dark Ages mages are interesting in that they are both really powerful and really limited compared to modern mages.

#

A single Pillar can cover things from several spheres at once.

#

But they have spheres they have zero access to at all because it's outside the context of their style.

# 
Gavri-El: Dominion over fire, healing, motion, and reason

Like this is Forces, Life and Mind all in one.

#

But these guys have zero context for working with entire swaths of 'stuff a modern mage could do with the right spheres'

candid shadow
#

So they’re just way more specialized essentially?

marble sorrel
#

As a full style yeah

#

Though each individual mage can be broader earlier

candid shadow
#

Interesting

marble sorrel
#

As they don't need 3 spheres for a specific spell

nimble gale
#

And each foundation has multiple pillars, so you can still manage a good bit of it, but, to use the example foundation--Messianic Voices--their pillars are the aforementioned Gavri-El, and then also Mikha-el (leadership, light, and war); repha-el (creativity, peace, and water), and uri-el (darkness, death, fear, and earth)

#

anything that doesn't fall under those specific themes is just... not doable.

candid shadow
#

I see

candid shadow
nimble gale
#

being fair poland in 1242 isn't that bad of a place to be,e ven if it is very catholic... it's also open to other faiths, outright welcomes jews, and is a center for learning and trade. It's kind of the reason every single neighboring country wanted to steal it for so long.

daring hazel
fathom haven
#

I'd say also in the Masquerade

mighty zephyr
#

In Masquerade the Ventrue care the most about their numbers (in that they keep track of everyone)

#

But the Brujah have the most embraces by far

#

In Requiem its domain by domain

fathom haven
#

I think they meant more of an emotional caring

clear delta
#

Nah that counts too

#

I'm interested in clan dynamics
Mostly emotional caring, but that is interesting too

fathom haven
#

Emotionally caring? Nosferatu and even Brujah from what I've seen

clear delta
#

Clans as weird families, whether healthy or unhealthy

fathom haven
#

At least for masquerade, for Requiem, it definitely depends on the individual vampire I would think, but Nosferatu are up there

frank atlas
digital siren
#

this would be the first videogame of Hunter, right?

mighty zephyr
#

Of 5th

#

But theres like 2-3 of the older game

digital siren
#

wonder if Imbueds would be in here

#

how was bloodlines 2 btw? I knew it came out but I have no idea how it did sales or review wise

fathom haven
mighty zephyr
digital siren
#

honestly

#

we take those considering how fucked was the dev cycle of it

#

it was either decent, or fucking dukem nukem forever

mighty zephyr
#

Slightly janky 6-8/10 depending on how much you enjoy dropkicking

digital siren
#

that sounds.... exactly like how the original bloodlines was

#

at least there werent game breaking bugs, right?

mighty zephyr
#

Not that I know other than like

fathom haven
#

Yeah but I couldn't play either a Nosferatu or a Gangrel, so that loses points for me

mighty zephyr
#

1 hard lock bug that got patched day 1

fathom haven
#

I got my Brujah at least

mighty zephyr
#

I got Lasombra c:

digital siren
#

I do wonder if they will make hunter just straight up COD or Metro

#

because honestly, either could work

mighty zephyr
#

Lasombra and Banu are fair trades for Gangrel and Nos

frank atlas
fathom haven
#

I would highly disagree tbh

frank atlas
#

Guys the thermal crucifix, go get it

fathom haven
#

I would take Banu though, I love the Banu

mighty zephyr
#

Lasombra and Banu mog tbqhwufamsmh

digital siren
#

I do have to say

#

the crucifix turning into a stake was a "helll yeah" for me

frank atlas
#

it was

#

it's so stupid it's just so cool

clear delta
#

Banu haqim are cool

digital siren
frank atlas
#

Depends on version and disadvs

#

I think one or two clans have that sensitivity as a bane

digital siren
#

because I was like "yeah it can help but not every vampire is like super weak to religio-Oh hell yeah stab them with the crucifix"

mighty zephyr
#

No clans did

fathom haven
mighty zephyr
#

Its okay, everyone is allowed to be the wrongest person ever once without consequence

fathom haven
#

Ya know what

#

At least they're not Tremere

mighty zephyr
digital siren
#

dis a ghoul?

image.png
mighty zephyr
#

Dunno

digital siren
#

tbh could be a nosferatu

mighty zephyr
#

It could be like 20 things tbh

#

Fomorii, gargoyle, random cryptid

#

Werewolf mutant, random sewer monster

fathom haven
#

Could be a straight up zombie

mighty zephyr
#

Straight up zombie

#

Flesh golem

digital siren
#

bare minimun from the art you are going to punch vampires and werewolfs

#

no idea if they would risk a mission or a quest with mages, or any of the other factions

#

was there a werewolf fight in bloodlines 2?

fathom haven
#

Zombie stats appear in the Book of the City for WTA btw

fathom haven
digital siren
#

mmm, wonder how they would do a werewolf fight

#

even in bloodlines 1 it was less of a fight and more "try to get the fuck away from this guy"

mighty zephyr
#

Pyre could take a Garou

fathom haven
#

A single Garou? Probably

#

But when is there ever just one

high current
fathom haven
#

Lmao

digital siren
#

because bare minimun, they have to be like left for dead 2 tank tier

fathom haven
#

Oh yeah, especially if we're talking an Ahroun

digital siren
#

hmmmmmmmmmmm

#

ok this sounds actually very good

fathom haven
#

Oooo

velvet sparrow
#

Hmmm

#

Very interesting

strong bronze
#

....thinking of what I should put on my player's first hunt on h:tr

I could just go with a classic vampire or ghoul but

...for some reason my brain tells me "adapt a CAIN ogre as a monster for them to fight"

mighty zephyr
#

Your first hunt should be fucking weird wild and have no easy to google answer

marble sorrel
#

I tend to prefer 'things that don't have a gameline, to make it less metagamable'

worthy sundial
#

look up local folklore & use that

vast blaze
#

If nothing else than because I feel the clan that's known for being horrifically abused would stick together and support each other

mighty zephyr
#

Well Gargoyles aren't really a "clan"

strong bronze
#

Probably the thinbloods

For

The same reason

mighty zephyr
#

Nah definitely not

#

Thinbloods are so numerous and cultureless that it doesn't exactly let them unify in the same way

clear delta
#

Thinking of an N corp legacy. Life mind.
Focused on the experiences of humanity, pleasure and pain, to an extreme. They heavily modify their bodies and record extreme memories, abd the worst ones modify other people. Plus an ability to wear other people to experience their lives
Probably born from a sense of alienation and desire to connect
Mind is kinda there mostly for the memory thing

radiant marsh
#

I am still holding out hope for an eventual werewolf game that doesn't suck

#

video game, I mean

grave gulch
#

thinking of running hunter again

#

gotta pick a setting

#

have no idea what to go with this time

keen bluff
#

like a city, or

grave gulch
#

yeah

#

like a city

#

or outskirts of a city

clear delta
#

Which werewolf version are your playing?

grave gulch
#

in case ur speaking to me i wanna run hunter not werewolf

clear delta
#

oh oops

#

mixed up in my head

#

okay, a small town would have more of a vibe of people knowing each other and local known legends

#

A big city would have a lot more ground and things, plus the feeling of not knowing others and various urban legends, and creatures in their own corner

#

You could have rundown abandoned urban areas too, seemingly empty but with things hiding within

rapid glacier
#

yeah I'd use a haunted house or a local critter, nothing 'named' like Vamps or Wolves

#

adapt a Buffy the Vampire Slayer B-plot or something, get real Twin Peaks with it

high current
#

i was looking for a different gif but i'll accept log lady being kind

vast blaze
#

Considering trying to open up a living world WoD server

#

Say it's set post-Apocalypse when shit's all gone to fuck and society's just sort of collapsed

#

Go for some Fallout/Forever Winter/Vampire Hunter D vibes

#

You lot have any advice for running it?

fathom haven
#

Hmmm

#

Would you still be incorporating stuff like the delirium from the Garou/Fera?

vast blaze
#

Absolutely would, just because the Apocalypse has come and gone doesn't mean humans aren't still scared of Fera

#

I do think I might say Mages operate on Dark Ages rules

#

Since at this point the Technocratic Union's just sort of given up on repressing magic and are more focused on just keeping humanity alive

#

"Look, we still hate you, but there's bigger fish to fry and we could use a hand here. Truce?"

#

...though that's mostly because I plan on including Amenti and wanna juice up the other splats so they have some even footing

fathom haven
#

In this case, at least on the Werewolf side of things, try not to make it seem too hopeless, yes the apocalypse has come and gone, but they're alive, maybe even finding pockets of supposed extinct Fera, make it seem like

#

You know what's a great game that I miss every day that could be comparable? Battleborn

#

Every star in the galaxy has been extinguished, except for one, and while there is still that one star, there is hope, it brings people together, it makes uneasy alliances steadfast and even the most gnarled and aged warrior shed a youthful tear of hope

#

At least for the werewolf side, it should be about clawing your way out of the darkness, until things can be set right

vast blaze
fathom haven
#

Exactly, state parks fiercely defended to the last breath, pockets of the earth undiscovered by humans/the Wyrm, etc

vast blaze
#

It'll be funny running this, because it's going to be a constant swing between like

"The world you knew is dead. Forces beyond all human comprehension have ripped the planet apart, killing billions and laying civilization low. Everything you ever knew and loved is more likely than not completely gone, and there's nothing you can really do about it besides cling to hope and struggle to survive in the decaying carcass of a planet that grows more and more inhospitable by the day."

vs

"HEY YOU WANNA SEE A GIANT MAGIC ROBOT PUNCH A KAIJU FOMORI IN THE FACE"

fathom haven
#

And that's what world of darkness should be, to me at least

#

And just for a thing I think would be funny? Leave South America and Australia practically untouched, between the Garou, Mokole, and Bastet efforts in the Amazon and the ghosts of the Bunyip/Camazotz slaughtering almost any Wyrm presence in the outback, plus powerful Mokole there? I just think it would be funny as hell for the Wyrm's forces to just be like "Ah fuck that, they got mega dinosaurs in the outback and werewolves with mini guns in the jungles, hell nah"

vast blaze
#

The Fera of South America, upon seeing the Wyrm try some bullshit:

fathom haven
#

Pretty much lmao

radiant marsh
#

Real "Trying to invade Catachan" vibes

fathom haven
#

A very good comparison

high current
#

casual Toreador(Volgirre lineage) shit vvvSip

fathom haven
#

Bleh, Toreador

high current
#

this was to convince a Malk to let her come along and help out with feeding, which turned into [fade to black]

fathom haven
clear delta
#

Reading about the historical malleus maleficarum today
And holy shit the misogyny
Also apparently most of the church rejected it, but a Pope supported it, and secular courts widely adopted it in trials

vast blaze
#

Am I the only one that's not terrifically excited about the HtR video game

mighty zephyr
#

I mean theres a single trailer so far

vast blaze
#

It looks cool but I fear it's gonna just paint every vampire as a Sabbat-tier monster, every Garou as a Black Spiral Dancer-tier murderer, just generally portray everything in the worst possible light

#

Which is lame as shit

mighty zephyr
#

But why when theres absolutely no indication of that whatsoever

#

You have made up a version of the game that so far has no evidence for existence other than "we gotta kill a vampire because he killed people" (a thing they do in fact do)

#

I understand being cynical about products cuz who wouldnt be at this point, but you gotta make sure youre being cynical about facts

valid merlin
marble sorrel
#

I'll admit, I'm kinda sad that it's Hunter The Reckoning rather than Hunter The Reckoning.

#

But that's to be expected

vast blaze
#

Mmm, yeah

#

I'm probably dooming over nothing

somber scarab
mighty zephyr
#

Hunter 5th vs Legacy Hunter

marble sorrel
hybrid dock
#

wait hold on...

image.png
#

oh

#

okay

marble sorrel
#

So it is Hunter the Reckoning but doesn't really have continuity with Hunter the Reckoning or is really even the same splat.

#

As Imbued were always a weird specific thing

#

While Hunters in 5 are much more Definitively Still Just Humans.

#

Imbued were a lot more Buffy Summers Hunters

mighty zephyr
#

Again, Hunter 5th is more a continuation of Hunter's Hunted hunters, not Hunter the Vigil

#

It does not really share much bones with Vigil

nimble gale
#

It's got some thematic overlap but that's becuase Hunter's Hunted and HtV had it. though a lot of Hunter's Hunted hutners were parts of big hunter organizations, but so were a lot of HtV hunters, so

marble sorrel
#

Hunter 5 tends to shy away from organizations that you're actively a current member of.

nimble gale
#

which is something H5 specifically wants you not to do because thye're sellouts and etc

radiant marsh
#

I'm skeptical because it's 5e

#

But other than that, there is one trailer and a bunch of unconfirmed information that says "It might be more Bloodlines than Bloodlines 2 was"

nimble gale
#

from what I've heard it's coming out to be more ofa spiritual successor to VtMB than VtMB2 was, but that's all hearsay at this point, so I'm gonn awatch cautiously

#

might be good, might be shit, no way to tell at this juncture

radiant marsh
mighty zephyr
#

The dev interview has said its an immersive Sim with skills

#

But its not really inspired by bloodlines

#

So much as inspired by the tabletop

nimble gale
#

i should play Happiness Syndi at some point; a syndicate convinced that the real purpose behind money isn't money itself, but happiness, and that they should be working to maximize universal happiness through any means necessary.

vast blaze
#

Mall ninja shit

#

Just the most garbage shit-tier melees made from the shittiest of junkyard scrap that work about as well as one might expect

#

Cheap and easy to come by but they break in a handful of hits

marble sorrel
#

Scoped Fire Axe

rapid glacier
#

I hope we get absolute dumpster gremlin weapons personally

vast blaze
#

Same

rapid glacier
#

I want this games arsenal to put SS13 to shame

#

I’m talking flamethrowers or land torpedos

vast blaze
#

A mix of actual legit weapons, shitty mall ninja crap, and the most deranged fuckass scrap cobbled together from trash you found in the dumpster

nimble gale
#

that's not tacticool, that's tacticruel. YOu took a perfectly good service rifle and gave it anxiety.

rapid glacier
#

Claymores made out of car airbags and ball bearings

vast blaze
#

I wanna shoot a Kindred with the Beggar's Bazooka

om1y8px6dbq91.png
rapid glacier
#

The problem with HtR players in my experience as an ST is a distinct lack of creativity when it comes to hiding ways to blow up a critter

nimble gale
#

Every Hunter campaign I've ever ran--HtR, HtV, and HH--starts with handing my players a copy of the anarchist's cookbook and various declassified US military improvization handbooks as research

rapid glacier
#

Yeah see ID gets it

#

If you haven’t blow up a werewolf by luring it into a basement and then doing ATF crimes with the water heater and a cupboard full of grandma’s finest cutlery you aren’t playing Hunter right

nimble gale
#

TM 31-210 is a great one

#

(these are also required reading for my delta green games)

rapid glacier
#

Double also H5 follows the the new WoD5 rule of “the other supernatural splats aren’t always the enemy”; I’m going to guess that you’re part of a Hunter cell in the middle of a turf war

nimble gale
#

I think my favorite 'you're doing what with a what' moments in a hunter game was when my Innocent in a HTR game (not H5) made a few hundred gallons of improvised napalm and held a werewolf pack hostage until they promised to stop mass murdering sewer workers in new york (the pack was working with a family of wererats, we found out later).

Anyway that's why you don't fuck with a chemistry major who grew up on a horse farm in arkansaw and came to NYC to go to college.

rapid glacier
#

It could be uh whatsit Milwaukee?

#

Anyways im cautiously optimistic here

radiant marsh
#

Broke: Dragonsbreath shotgun shells

rapid glacier
#

I enjoyed BL2 even if it had its flaws, I’m eager to see what they cook up

radiant marsh
#

Woke: Homemade propane flamethrower with a percentage chance of explosive failure every time it's used

#

That's how you Hunter

rapid glacier
#

Exactly

radiant marsh
#

I'm still holding out hope for a Werewolf game that doesn't suck

rapid glacier
#

I want to see a WtA imsim but honestly I think the best we’d get is a WtA-themed Darktide

#

Honestly that would be pretty interesting, something like Payday 2, or team based espionage of some kind

#

Everything goes fine until it’s time to pull the ripcord and now we’re playing co-op Doom

mighty zephyr
#

I think the more complex the splat the less likely you get an imsim

nimble gale
#

legitimately I'd pay full AAA price for a payday 2-alike that's wta. Start off doing sneaky corporate sabotage, then the fomori show up and RIP AND TEAR.

#

monkey wrenching turns into wrenching monkeys something something something were-apes

mighty zephyr
#

Any developer that thinks they can make a Mage imsim shall find themselves scattered on the dunes

nimble gale
#

my favorite mtas video game is LSD Dream Simulator

mighty zephyr
#

I think weirdly enough

#

WtA would do great with something like fuckin

#

Evolve

#

one person playing a fucked up Bane and the rest play the Pack

marble sorrel
nimble gale
#

yep

vast blaze
#

A Sorcerer game wherein Mages are NPCs is a lot more likely tbh

radiant marsh
#

WtA turn-based strategy

#

Or something like the Shadowrun RPGs

mighty zephyr
#

WtA would do fuckin sick as a CRPG

radiant marsh
#

It would. That sort of turn-based style, I think would be the best way to really vibe with it.

#

Because yes you have a player avatar, but it puts the focus on pack tactics

#

And would make the whole 'shift on the fly for different situations' thing a lot less complicated

marble sorrel
#

I feel like you could do a really good changeling game in the vibe of disco elysium. Make the stats your various arts and how they want to tug the story various directions.

#

'I'm Dragon's Ire 5, I find it hard not to Lancelot my way through things'

radiant marsh
#

I would argue that making a WtA brawler would be the simplest.

#

But somehow Earthblood even managed to fuck that up

#

...Now I'm thinking how you'd do nWoD Mummy and going cross-eyed

mighty zephyr
#

Rogue Lke

#

Easy

#

It is literally set up already as a roguelike

rapid glacier
rapid glacier
#

also it will be the best written game in a decade and nerds will still say it sucks because you can't Entropy5/Prime5 your way out of every problem or some shit

vast blaze
#

Y'know what I wanna see

#

An oWoD Mummy game

#

Wonder what genre it'd be

vast blaze
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Oh my god

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The STs in a VtM server I'm in let EVERYONE connect to the Madness Network as an April Fool's prank

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Regardless of whether or not you're a Malkavian

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Or a Kindred

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Or even a Ghoul

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The Masquerade is in SHAMBLES

frank atlas
grave gulch
nimble gale
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I hesitate to link them publicly on pilot.net for various reasons, but I suggest googling 'the anarchist cookbook' and 'declassified us army technical manuals' and looking for ones with spicy titles for the latter

frank atlas
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If memory serves be careful with that

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idk if the cookbook is a watchbook

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but iirc, some printings are fucked with as an idiot filter.

mighty zephyr
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Just dont fuck with it

frank atlas
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i've not read it myself tho. this is hearsay

nimble gale
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In this case it's more about gathering ideas for things to do for a hunter game