V20 a fun presence + potence that let them share a single dot of potence with any ally inspired by them.
#World of Darkness
rapid glacier
V20 a fun presence + potence that let them share a *single* dot of potence with ...
God give me this for V5 lmao
All my licks in the game I run are wizards, those nerds need some horsepower for the fights they keep picking
marble sorrel
It's a nice thematic combo for getting your allies Real Fired Up.
mighty zephyr
I feel like Draught of Might already hits that
mighty zephyr
That's what Malwa is for
rapid glacier
…yeah I suppose their Justicar they work for as off-the-books Archons might go for that, given their circumstances
This coterie is not prone to Making Good Decisions
mighty zephyr
I think I'm gonna get Wrecker and Exuberence
rapid glacier
Is wrecker the one that lets you get double potency to break inanimate objects?
mighty zephyr
Yeah
rapid glacier
Temporary Crinos status
mighty zephyr
And Exuberence lets you count as having 2 higher Potence in exchange for Dekuing your limbs
rapid glacier
Oh that’s the one that hurts you to use I remember that one
mighty zephyr
Yeah
So my Lasombra Hound is counting as Potence 10 for the purposes of destruction
marble sorrel
Aininur's going to get this soon, which is very funny:
Scalpel Tongue (Presence •, Celerity •)
System: Roll Wits + Empathy against a difficulty of 7. If the user of this power does not know his target well, difficulty is increased by one, due to not knowing what buttons to push to achieve the greatest verbal impact. The barbed comment stings the target into silence for one turn per success, or double that if the target is not a member of Clan Toreador. Spending one Willpower negates this effect.
This power costs 6 experience points to learn.
Okay so weirdly enough
marble sorrel
Be The Cattiest Bitch
rapid glacier
That power is in Werewolf
Sort of
Wyrm-Speech lets you do superficial damage by speaking to people
Or shouting, whichever
Crits let you turn one superficial you deal to Aggravated for each exit
Crit*
marble sorrel
Oh no, werewolves have harnesed the power of Xbox Live.
mighty zephyr
rapid glacier
Our Philodox uses it by reciting Army Corps of Engineers environmental guidelines and various Fiduciary Responsibility and Compliance protocols at people, specifically which ones they violate
marble sorrel
Ah, I found that one in V20! It was a Toreador combo discipline in v20 called 'under the skin'.
Where you used Auxpex + Presence to work out the exact buttons to push to drive someone into a rage in the direction you want.
mighty zephyr
Funnily enough
Brujah can also get Celerity 3 to make people hunger frenzy
AND a fury frenzy
God what a fucking hand grenade of an ability
Brujah with 3/3/3 in Clan Disciplines
marble sorrel
Untitled Brujah Game
mighty zephyr
The Domain is Peaceful, and you are an Annoying Brujah
marble sorrel
Game Goal: Make the Prince Frenzy in the middle of Elysium.
rapid glacier
https://i.imgur.com/as3JYdj.png
The masquerade violation is a funny addition to this, what a thing to call attention to
“Yeah vampires don’t care but it might cause a faux pas that gets them murked”
marble sorrel
To be fair, it's a very funny thing to do to a guy in an alleyway and then force him to get back home without being seen by the mortals 😛
Thousand Cuts a guy then run away going 'woop woop woop'
rapid glacier
I choose to believe you Frenzy test because you get all your clothes chopped off you, Looney Toons style
marble sorrel
...one of these days I kinda want to play an Old Clan Tzimisce or the Toreador bloodline who gets fleshwarping who's less on the 'I made a flesh bouncy castle' end. A Reconstructive Surgeon.
People are willing to pay a lot to regain their looks.
rapid glacier
Tzimisce that flesh crafts themselves wings but is also fascinated by modern technology and instead flesh-crafts themselves a Cessna
mighty zephyr
I see that a lot as a way to play "nice" Tzimece
marble sorrel
Knock them out, take a bit of a sippy, fix up the damage. Nobody is going to look twice at a guy coming out of surgery going 'Man, I feel like I lost a lot of blood'.
Also it means if I'm a Tzimisce I can literally be Dr Acula.
mighty zephyr
It also lets you do cosmetic surgery
And lock it in
Lots of face stealing in that chronicle
marble sorrel
Yay, faces
mighty zephyr
My gangrel who first practiced his way into recreating the pack bond before I knew about it
Hated everyone who stole faces in that
marble sorrel
...I get the feeling with the reconstructive surgery theme I'd go a bit Bayonetta Angels with the Zulo Form. Where it's got bone plates that make it look smooth and graceful (If still very clearly inhuman) on the outside but if they're cracked you see writhing, unnatural flesh underneath.
marble sorrel
The various Roads always had a bit of "The Path of What I Was Going To Do Anyway" but man it's become surprisingly literal with our Tremere after a (Kinda paraphrased) conversation:
Cassia (Tremere): "Hey, you think a good person, right?"
Aininur(Banu Haqim): "...I'd like to think so?"
Cassia: "Alright, so I have this issue where I do bad things to get things I want and then I feel bad. Can you help me with this?"
Aininur: "Have you considered not doing the bad things?"
Cassia: "No, you don't get it. I'm looking for help doing that thing where you don't feel bad when you do things. I like the bit where I do things I want, I don't like the bit where I feel bad afterwards."
Aininur: "...I think you might want someone with a different philosophy than me."
In other news: Our Tremere is reading up on the moral philosophy of the Road of Lilith.
mighty zephyr
Kinda
vast blaze
Kinda how
sour zephyr
nimble gale
It's very possible for them to exist and I believe one or two might get referenced in mage
you can turn anything sapient with enough mind and prime
vast blaze
Right, right
nimble gale
"What is my purpose?" "You stab my enemies." "Oh my god."
vast blaze
Cause I was considering a Mage that Awakened from a magic sword
mighty zephyr
Spirit also can be sapient
vast blaze
...odd question, wasn't there lore that like
The Void Engineers are on the verge of defecting from the Technocracy?
marble sorrel
Ehh. Not quite. They're just very independent for a subfaction
mighty zephyr
The Technocracy is on the verge of collapse in general
marble sorrel
They got hit pretty hard by the avatar storm as they had a lot of upper management off-planet.
That's not to say the traditions didn't get hit hard.
But the technocracy always had more assets
And that means they had more to lose.
Not to mention the VE are dealing with Threat Null, so even by technocracy standards they're under a lot of pressure
They've got the plot of System Shock going on while everyone else is having wizard wars on earth
mighty zephyr
The Traditions are also largely decentralized apprentice/master relationships while TU was led by Control
And Control was in the Umbra
marble sorrel
The traditions did lose a lot of their archmasters and any tradition that cares about Spirit is in a rough state with the avatar storm going on but yeah, they had a lot less off-earth infrastructure to be damaged overall.
As the spirit-focused Technocracy tradition, the VE are not doing well. They've got some advantages that other Technocrats don't have (Since they spend a lot of time away from other groups they're used to working without upper management's exact words + They didn't use the conditioning techniques that other traditions did, so their guys are not vulnerable to Threat Null going Assuming Direct Control + They tend to have a 'You didn't see us, we didn't see you' policy when off-planet when it comes to reality deviants) but between the loss of many space stations, a lot of their veterans in the avatar storm and appearance of Threat Null they're seriously being pushed to their limit.
high current
so, had session 0 tonight and i have at least 3 of my PCs figured out(i invited a 4th dude but he never got back to me after saying he'd give it a shot 
)
i have a vollgirre toreador club owner, a lasombra morgue attendant, and a tremere meth cook who was addicted to his own product before being embraced
and the name Jim kept being thrown around for possible NPCs so im making their mutual acquaintance who is going to die in session 1 be named Jim 
rapid glacier
Dead Jim is a good NPC name
vast blaze
Any relation to the fabled Slim Jim?
rapid glacier
Dumb NPC names are a WoD tradition
I have Big Bill Sabot, BoHN had Scorpion Unlimited Wisdom Sword of Ali, etc etc
lucid cape
Question:
What do yall think of the Sabbat as a faction?
rapid glacier
Really useful antagonist faction; they can be faceless mooks, twisted puppeteers and sickos without measure, and everything in between
You need a VtM antag, there is a Sabbat hook that will suit your purposes
They’re also good secondary antagonists; if you’re doing a Cam politics game, they’re the perfect wrench in a PC’s plans for an otherwise foolproof scheme to power
marble sorrel
They're useful for making sure there's a good bit of combat in a campaign
All Cam has a tendency to become Politics: The Talkening and players who got plenty of Physical Disciplines should get to have fun too
rapid glacier
That too, but skim over fights n my games, so they’re really useful as the horde of thin bloods and ghouls to chase PCs around
lucid cape
Ok but like, besides gameplay reasons, what fo yall think about them
marble sorrel
I do think they're kinda hurt by the V5 changes to clans as they kinda don't have any associated clans any more.
They sorta don't have any 'face' to them.
While before you had a few clans that were the representation of them as a coordinated group.
I 100% get why V5 made those changes (With it being more clear you can't play Sabbat, people wanna play their favorite clans still)
I also think the push back to the Middle East mostly has...unfortunate implications, where they took over from the Banu Haqim as 'Scary Middle Eastern Religious Zealot Terrorist Vampires'. So I tend to ignore the 'They took Alamut, it's their headquarters now' bit myself.
rapid glacier
I think as a faction they’re a great way to show what happens when good intentions (or, well, ‘better’ intentions is probably more accurate) get co-opted by people who want power. The Sabbat morphed into a cabal of powerful psychopaths and willing servants with a spiritual-aspect to them that basically only works because the Camarilla (and the large Domain Princes before that) treats people unfairly and cruelly
But they didn’t start that way; they were led to it by a combination of necessity and opportunism
They serve as a constant reminder of the failings of leadership and governance inside the Camarilla and other factions that have come or gone. The Ashirra and those that would become the Inconnu also share some of this blame, but putting blame isn’t really helpful or useful in the greater fight against them
Anytime they show up, it’s always a long term problem that called them and it’s a long term solution to keep their influence out of your city
marble sorrel
I also tend to focus a bit on the 'Cell' aspect of the Sabbat. More 'What is this Cell's leader/what is their particular goal?'. It helps give more of a 'face' for players to engage with.
It's not just 'you're fighting The Sabbat. You're fighting Bob's Cell, which has a primary focus on a specific thing'
clear delta
Are sentient magical swords a thing in WoD
Also soulforging
marble sorrel
The Sabbat are also very good for scaring talking/research/magic focused vampires as a variant of this.
The more the characters are focused on politics and long-term plans, the funnier it is when half a dozen sabbat ghouls turn up and start throwing firebombs through the window because they don't care about things going loud and it's now your problem.
clear delta
The Sabbat are also very good for scaring talking/research/magic focused vampire...
"I'm glad you changed your last name you son of a bitch"
marble sorrel
I'm a big fan of forcing players outside of the comfort zone of their character and different factions are good for different parts of it.
The Cam are good for forcing more fighty characters to deal with talking, as they've got the power to make your life hell if you don't play their game.
And the Sabbat are good for forcing more talky characters to engage with the physical actions and combat side of the system as they don't care about political blowback. They have a shovel and they want to hit you with it.
The Anarchs are in turn good for dealing some Weird Shit. If your character's knowledge of the occult extends only as far as 'Vampires exist and some can do blood wizard magic', they're good for causing some chaos and 'what the hell is that?'. Tzimisce with their elementalism and fleshwarping, Settite sorcery, Thin-Blood Alchemists etc.
lucid cape
I once saw a meme about "If the sabbat truly believes they are as strong as they claim, they wouldn't be hiding" which really made an impression on me
Though Im just asking around just in case that is some sort of misinformarion
marble sorrel
Anarchs can do basicly anything and that makes them tricky for players (In a good way). They're more than capable of playing politics, beating your ass in an alleyway or going Resident Evil on your ass as a giant fleshwarped snake bursts its way out of your basement.
marble sorrel
I once saw a meme about "If the sabbat truly believes they are as strong as they...
The Sabbat are strong enough to fight almost anything but they're not strong enough to fight everything. They're in that area of 'you're never strong enough to be entirely safe from them' but also not constantly on the defensive.
lucid cape
Do they believe in their own hype?
marble sorrel
Depends a lot
Some do, they do have some serious true believers
But there's also a lot of people there just for power.
lucid cape
Intresting
craggy coyote
as of v5 I'd say they're much weaker overall. while individual sabbat members are threats in the way an active gun man is a threat they are not insittuonalky poweful
so yes for all their rhetoric as of v5 the sabbat is uh
lucid cape
Now entirely unrelated:
If my character had severe pneuomia before they were embraced, to they get cured of it after getting embraced
craggy coyote
not exactly going to win if it tries taking over the world
craggy coyote
Now entirely unrelated:
If my character had severe pneuomia before they were emb...
more or less because you don't need to breathe but I will note you keep your body as is day of death so any affects it had on said body may remain
make sure you have a decent haircut
marble sorrel
Now entirely unrelated:
If my character had severe pneuomia before they were emb...
Honestly, It Depends. There's flaws for 'You still have something wrong, even with vampiric healing' but you also see a lot of people's issues clear up when they get vamped.
marble sorrel
make sure you have a decent haircut
Hey, or become friends with a sorcerer so they can use the mighty power of 'You guys made a ritual for hairstyling?'
I love that ritual
rapid glacier
as of v5 I'd say they're much weaker overall. while individual sabbat members ar...
There’s two flavors of Sabbat cells in V5; new or young vampires looking to strike out against the old guard and be edgy, and the forgotten remnants of what was effectively a superpowered black ops wet works team. You can’t ever be too sure with them, and sometimes it’s hard to tell which you’re dealing with
You still gotta deal with them but they aren’t a cohesive force united behind a global figurehead, but that in no way makes them less dangerous if they really want to cause problems
Also this subject has some leeway for STs to play with a bit, so I refer back to my previous statements about their role as antagonists
marble sorrel
Generally:
The Cams power-wise are sorta like a pyramid. You've got a lot of guys without much personal power, quite a few guys with a moderate amount of personal power and a few guys with a lot of personal power.
The Sabbat are more like an hourglass. They've got a metric fucktonne of guys with little personal power (The famous Shovelheads) and a surprising number of absolutely terrifying guys (These guys were the Black Hand and such) but they lack a lot of the 'been about for a while but not really personal powerhouses' vampire.
In previous editions, Sabbat got extra points of disciplines but less points of backgrounds to represent how if you're a named character sabbat you're likely battle hardened in a way that many cam vampires are not but you don't have that systemic power backing you up.
frank atlas
Oh that's neat
There was part of me that wanted to run a sabbat campaign, the way i heard their power structures described is hilariously toxic
nimble gale
"Monomacy it is, then!" etc
marble sorrel
There was part of me that wanted to run a sabbat campaign, the way i heard their...
To be fair, the Cam are no less toxic. It's just toxic in a specific neo-feudal way. The Sabbat are assholes but they have developed tools to have relatively healthy relationships among monsters with Vaulderie.
Vaulderie is basicly a ritual to have a mutual, less overpowering blood bond within a group.
It's basicly putting 5 sabbat in the Get Along Shirt
The Cam hate the Vaulderie because it is a ritual that directly opposes their prefered method of control.
Vaulderie is a two way street. Both of you feel for the other.
The Cam prefer Blood Bonds because they're one directional.
The master is worshipped by those he has bonded but he feels no compulsion back.
frank atlas
Shit maybe we should be using Vaulderie more
marble sorrel
The big thing is also that Vaulderie breaks existing blood bonds. That is why the Cam particularly hate it.
So someone participating in Vaulderie is not only going 'These guys are my friends', they are going 'I will not be bound to anyone but them'
But yeah, unironically, despite being a creation of the Sabbat the Vaulderie is one of the better and less morally questionable things vampires have made.
It makes multiple, entirely consenting participants feel mutual respect and care for each other without overiding their autonomy like powerful blood bonds can.
It's also why, if you kill a Sabbat, you better be ready to kill a lot of them.
As he's going to have like 5 guys who were Ride Or Die for him and you just picked the die side
Considering the current people in the Cam include both the Banu Haqim and the Lasombra, there's likely quite a few people in the Cam who've performed it before and just quietly pretend they don't know what you're talking about. XD
frank atlas
you SURE DO
vast blaze
Do y'all know of any reasons an Old Clan Tzimisce might be in Baltimore
high current
too many to list without more information 
historically though Baltimore has had a sabbat presence(Clan Book 2: Tzimisce was set in Baltimore)
mighty zephyr
The thing about the Vaulderie is that its a bad reason the same reason mutual blood bonds are
You become fanatically devoted to someone who is fanatically devoted to you
marble sorrel
Well, notably it's much, much less fanatical than a blood bond.
When two characters first participate in a Vaulderie ritual together, they gain a vinculum of 1 to each other. Vinculums between two individuals cannot be raised more than once in a single night, no matter how many Vaulderies the two individuals participate in during that night. Thereafter, whenever you meet that other player in-game, you must determine the current vinculum rating between your two characters. To do that, answer the following questions:
• Have you participated in a Vaulderie with this individual every few days for the last three months? If so, you have a rating of 5. Vinculum ratings of 5 are uncommon and short-lived: the better to protect against a tie that feels too much like the blood bond. You are completely infatuated with the other person, believing anything she says and instinctively aiding her whenever possible (even to your own detriment).
• Have you participated in a Vaulderie with this individual approximately every week for the past three months? If so, you have a rating of 4. You might have missed a few weeks during those three months, but you cannot miss more than two weeks in a row. You feel as though the other person is an integral part of your life: a lover or a trusted companion. You will instinctively aid the other individual, and you always give her the benefit of the doubt.
• Have you participated in a Vaulderie with this individual more than 10 times in the last year? If so, you have a rating of 3. You feel a close connection and deep friendship with that individual, as though you had been friends for a very long time.
• Have you participated in a Vaulderie with this individual more than once in the past year? If so, you have a rating of 2. You feel a sense of empathy towards the other vampire, as though she is your friend.
• The first time you participate in a Vaulderie with someone, you gain a rating of 1. This rating is permanent, no matter how long it has been since you participated in the Vaulderie together. You feel a sense of kinship and are neutral-to-friendly with the subject.
It's only rank 5 that hits 'blood bond' levels and that requires doing it every few days for multiple months
It also breaks existing blood bonds, which inherantly makes it a really powerful, useful tool against a primary method of vampiric enslavement.
hybrid dock
You become fanatically devoted to someone who is fanatically devoted to you
Consider though, what if I love terrible awful no good power dynamics that hurt people.
(Me when I am a normal human trust me)
(Trustworthy safe human Karen)
valid merlin
Karen loves it when the vibes are awful
vast blaze
You become fanatically devoted to someone who is fanatically devoted to you
But think of the toxic yuri, Voy
dense vault
So the tunnel pack from HTP was toxic yaoi.
hybrid dock
Karen loves it when the vibes are awful
You saw what I read last week allie it was glorious
nimble gale
So the tunnel pack from HTP was toxic yaoi.
Legitimately probably, though the way they acted I don't think think their vinculum rating was particularly high.
craggy coyote
It was explicitly not, Ape Boy hadn't even taken it
also amsuingly the low strength of the Vinculum is also what allows Sabbat packs to be rife with infighting
While it frees you of the blood bonds, this now means you have a group of 4+ predators who have abaneonded humanity and most ethics beyond "might makes right" in the same room
this does not end well most of the time
nimble gale
Also I've had a vague bug to do minor VtM 20 homebrew, and I'm thinking a writeup of an Irish bloodline of vampires that are inspired by/base themselves on the Ulster Cycle, but now I'm pondering if there's a better way to represent riastrad/warp spasm than zulo form refluffed.
mighty zephyr
There's a power from requiem that fits it better
nimble gale
I suppose I could port that over but I was mostly going to do fluff here
orchid void
Consider though, what if I love terrible awful no good power dynamics that hurt ...
karen gets it
playing vampire is about putting dollies in the torment nexus
hybrid dock
I got lost in the dark romance sauce during the weekend so godawful power dynamics are on the brain
hybrid dock
playing vampire is about putting dollies in the torment nexus
I’m a big fan of experiencing the torment nexus it’s great
marble sorrel
There's a power from requiem that fits it better
What's the requiem power?
orchid void
I’m a big fan of experiencing the torment nexus it’s great
its really funny every time.
orchid void
i need to play lucy again bc i love her setup but the payoff is delightful
orchid void
she seems soooo fucking ahead of the game and no. she's like one or two ahead.
and is rapidly trying to keep going
hybrid dock
It’s a shame “ochema oc” is fucking insane and not really usable
But my thrysus girlie was great
And now that I have a better grasp on game mechanics gosh, she would be fun
orchid void
i do love that she was worried about Awakening Wrong because Lucy didn't become a Limb, she went to Hell
hybrid dock
YEAH
mighty zephyr
What's the requiem power?
Its a Protean devotion that lets you redistribute dots reflexively for a scene after a transformation sequence
hybrid dock
She had such a weird view on the world
mighty zephyr
I forget the name since im at work
Its in core though
If anyone wants to go check it
hybrid dock
“Oh yeah okay I’m the limb of a giant god, what about you?”
“What?”
Also now that I read a bit more about werewolf
Man was she fucking WEIRD
Even to other werewolves she was just being plain weird
Or well just the one
hybrid dock
True
mighty zephyr
Karen Del you are both Chroncilers
mighty zephyr
Can either of you check the core of requiem 2e for that discipline i mentioned
Its a protean discipline that requires the other physical disciplines
hybrid dock
I don’t have requiem on me but I’m certain del does
mighty zephyr
Dassit
high current
side note, i'd forgotten what a pain in the ass it is trying to find art for WoD characters
mighty zephyr
"Chronicles is lower power" my ass
high current
i've got 2 npcs i want to grab art for, and one of them is such a specific concept i probably won't get what i want without commissioning someone
(i mentioned last week the idea of a thin-blood alchemist who poses as a ghoul; i'm wanting him to look like a bodyguard but with a bandolier of vials with his various formulae, may have to just go for the bodyguard look though)
orchid void
"Chronicles is lower power" my ass
chronicle is much less comic book but still plenty gonzo
high current
other one will probably be easier but i havent gotten around to it yet, cause i want Dead Jim to look like a messy university student, but modern-looking character art is generally more of a pain than fantasy ime
hybrid dock
chronicle is much less comic book but still plenty gonzo
Yeah
marble sorrel
Honestly Zulo Form seems more fitting for what IDs going for. It's a cool power, just not really riastrad.
barren vortex
i do love that she was worried about Awakening Wrong because Lucy didn't become ...
i liked when miya gave a funeral to a coffee cup under the theory it would create a coffee ghost to give to the ghost in their cafe
high current
considering how ghosts work in CofD, that's not too far fetched of an idea
barren vortex
mummies were buried with their wealth right. uhhhh maybe this works
high current
ghosts in cofd are basically psychic echoes of a person/thing at the moment of 'death', with a very Tarot-inspired take on what 'death' means(significant trauma or other change can create a ghost of you as you were at that moment)
barren vortex
miya awakened as a mage like a week ago and was just winging things
theyre pretty sure the devil showed up to offer a contract for their soul
after the awakening
in which they boiled a man of lead into gold
actually wait
@mighty zephyr this is the Genre Of Customer dio came off as to miya
orchid void
theyre pretty sure the devil showed up to offer a contract for their soul
notably this was not lucy, who was described as more trustworthy!
mostly because she wasn't trying to sell anything as cool or good
barren vortex
would you trust the greep
orchid void
i would not
barren vortex
who introduced himself with the name of God
orchid void
would you trust the woman in a fed suit who knocks on your window like peter pan for the fbi?
barren vortex
unlike the other floatsam day traders washing up from wall street at their cafe, this one was actually endowed with the power of god
orchid void
With my life apparently
love the bad choices that would lead to.
hybrid dock
It’s surprising to me too
orchid void
hopefully her mentors would keep Ain from trusting Lucy too much
hybrid dock
HAH
orchid void
It’s surprising to me too
girls who break into your apartment to explain how there are archons to fight are to be trusted implicitly <The Matrix Came Out This Year
hybrid dock
It tracked perfectly with the narrative in Eid’s head
Which is “I am a limb of a great and beautiful god and they’re keeping me from the world”
barren vortex
miya apparently
hybrid dock
Yeah
heady kestrel
This is just mage in general
clear delta
Mages deep in a discussion you can't understand
mighty zephyr
who introduced himself with the name of God
He introduced himself with the name of a god
Did you think Dio was his FULL name
dawn wigeon
there are like 4 different WoD campaigns that now have ongoing connections to each other
6 degrees of Kevin Bacon-ass campaigns
rapid glacier
there are like 4 different WoD campaigns that now have ongoing connections to ea...
A single ST or just referential bits?
dawn wigeon
A single ST or just referential bits?
the plots are converging
so much more than references
apparently the GMs are working towards a crossover
rapid glacier
Oh shit, this is how larps get started I think
Or I assume, I’ve never done a LARP
dawn wigeon
there is like two changeling games and two mage games connected to one another
marble sorrel
Dark Ages particular version of the Ward ritual always makes me laugh. As later wards are like 'Ward vs Lupines' or 'Ward vs Ghouls' but Dark Ages Ward is a more 'you need to be X good to enter'. You pick a stat and a value and people without that value in the stat can't enter.
Which like...obviously the intent is like 'this is confusing people with illusions, if you don't have wits 4 you can't find you way through' or 'This is a physical barrier, be strength 3 or higher to push through it'.
An optimal use of it is to set up the No Uggos field, where if you make it appearance-based, raging werewolves and nosferatu infiltrators find it really really hard to bypass.
As a berserk werewolf A) Can't get through due to Crinos form being App 0 B) Doesn't have the self control due to Crinos form to do the 'What if I slowly decontruct your magical barrier with my own magical expertise' alternative.
marble sorrel
...huh, the current head of the Cam Ban Haqim is a practitioner of Obeah.
Makes sense that he's one of the few 4th gens who's not a complete cockwaffle.
He's detatched from humanity but still has like...values.
marble sorrel
...I wonder if we'll ever get more on the Ashirra. It's one of those factions that's turned up here and there but mostly gets ignored.
They're at least as relevant as the Hecata, just limited by the fact they're a multi-clan alliance rather than 'we have clans that are Just For Us'.
Well, okay. I suppose technically they're the only remaining player-side faction that has the Salubri as an express group they represent
But their numbers are very low. They've just got politicially notable places.
mighty zephyr
Well they come up a ton in the Camarilla book and Gehenna
marble sorrel
...as allies of the Cam, they're likely a good justification for any given 'I want to play a non-cam clan in a cam game' as almost every clan has representation in the Ashirra.
"Why is there a Brujah here instead of with the Anarchs?"
"They're Bay't Mushakis."
"Fair Enough."
mighty zephyr
Well every clan is also in the Cam to some extent
Theres still Brujah and Gangrel loyalists
Lasombra and Tzimece have representation, Ministers and Banu are in
I think the only clan you struggle to justify is Salubri but you also need to justify them anywhere
And tbf Salubri are fine if you just dont have a major Tremere presence
Since really most clans dont actually give a shit anymore
rapid glacier
They do keep getting eaten, having “is delicious” as a clan bane still causes problems
marble sorrel
v5 did kinda give Salubri one of the worst banes, as it's kinda Multiple Banes in a trenchcoat.
If people taste your blood they need to resist frenzy. If you use a discipline power, people around you need to test to resist frenzy. You've got a very visible mystical third eye you need to keep hidden...
Average Conversation with a Tremere.
"Look, I agree we should stop the demonologists but I don't want the good name of demonology to dragged through the mud..."
marble sorrel
Funny Thought: With the change of thier bane due to a hell of a fuckup, Tremere have a very useful (If miserable) role outside of mages.
They can't blood bond, so they make great cattle for vampires old enough they can only drink other vampire blood.
You get your vampire sippy without risking emotional fuckery.
Salubri: "Hahahah, the dinner plate is on the other foot now!"
vast blaze
...I do not think I am overly fond of 20th edition combat
marble sorrel
Combat has never been much of a strength of any edition of WoD
nimble gale
it is at best functional and at worst uhhhhhh
needs a complete rewrite
funny thing: in the revised edition books, the way combat initiative worked was everyone rolled initaitve, then the last person to go announced their action, going oout to the person who won initiative who announced their action last and performed it first, and if your action was no longer able to be performed when our turn came around you lost your turn (IIRC)
marble sorrel
Which unsurprisingly led to a lot of 'wow, I did fuck all since I have low init, this is miserable'
nimble gale
1998
worthy sundial
is that like the first ever instance of that form of initiative
cuz its a thing ive seen bandied abt in rpg design circles
nimble gale
it's the first I'm aware of but i'm sure there were earlier oens like that, likely in the '80s in zine circles
worthy sundial
there is a nonzero chance they got it from 1985's DC Heroes
mighty zephyr
If anyone made me play a game like that I'd throw them in a dumpster
Also I think my second V5 character is gonna be an independent ghoul
it's REALLY hard to decide between Thinblood or Ghoul tbh
worthy sundial
im curious how the alchemy plays
mighty zephyr
Same
vast blaze
...I do not think I am overly fond of 20th edition combat
It's mostly the fact that like
mighty zephyr
Being a funny drug peddler is kinda fun
vast blaze
You get hit and there's a 70% chance it instagibs you
mighty zephyr
Yes
worthy sundial
being a magic drug dealer does seem kickass
worthy sundial
yeag again this is just part of The Point
mighty zephyr
The Most Submissive and Killable Splat
marble sorrel
There's a reason why 'combat clan' lists generally includes 'the guys who win init instantly with celerity' and 'the guys who turn invisible' more than 'the guy who tanks hits well'.
nimble gale
^
combat isn't quite a failstate in wod but it is not something to be sought out most of the time and in a serious fight you want to outnumber, out-play, and out-arm yoru opponent
a fair fight is a losing fight, as in RL
mighty zephyr
Wam I also think you are most likely running into the exact same scenario where your fresh from gen combat character is finding out that they are still fairly low on the pecking order due to a lack of XP and treating the game as if fair fights happen regularly.
marble sorrel
Like we did have a big combat in the last arc for Dark Ages Vampire and that combat...mostly involved us stacking the deck in our favour as much as we could before it started.
vast blaze
And iirc, you are playing a mage
Naw this was in Vampire
marble sorrel
4 vampires (pcs) vs 4 vampires (Baali) and several blood bonded humans.
Which started off with the Banu Haqim shanking one of the other vampires in the back and the brick shithouse soldier Tzimisce barreling through a door when the Banu got their attention rather than everyone going 'hello, we would like to engage in fisticuffs with you'.
Even werewolf, the fightiest splat, likes not having fair fights.
The closest they have to a 'fair fight' thing is a ritual that has them do a 1v1, fox only, final destination duel with a guy...where the other guy can't use supernatural powers and the werewolf can still go Crinos.
Which notably - Not a fair fight still.
craggy coyote
They can't blood bond, so they make great cattle for vampires old enough they ca...
You also know the tremere are pieces of shit because they actively look for ways to circumvent this while groups like the meneleans finding a ritual that makes you unbondable, but unable to blood bond is a 5 dot merit
Blood contracts go brr
marble sorrel
As an aside: Due to blood bonds being broken by Vaulderie, Sabbat elders likely have a much easier time than cam elders.
You don't need to worry about fucking up your mind asking your underlings for a drink
craggy coyote
You don't need to worry about fucking up your mind asking your underlings for a ...
Yes and no. Good news: You are not blood bonded. bad news the youth are not blood bonded
Best keep the stick ready
marble sorrel
Sure but you've got Vauderie so you're All Friends even if they're not actively your slaves.
craggy coyote
Kinda, but Its not exactly uncommon for sabbat to succumb to infighting regardless either between packs, or in packs with low vinculum ratings between the issues of multiple paths outright encouarging treachery (cathari), or valuing the ability to beat someone over the head to lead, challenges happen a lot.
The Lasombra aren't excactly known for their loyalty
and the sabbat was their baby
or at least they claim it as theirs pre v5
marble sorrel
Oh sure but not really 'any more than the cam do'.
craggy coyote
No, more than the cam do actually. Think of it this way. In v5 killing a rival requires a lot of effort - you either need to get the local elders support, or do it in such a way no one can balme you. Either takes a lot of time and effort.
The Sabbat have the option of "Fuck you run hands or die" almost whenever via monomacy
and Diablerie isn't an uncommon result
mighty zephyr
There's consequences if you kill someone in the Camarilla a lot of the time.
craggy coyote
^
mighty zephyr
In the Sabbat it's "eh"
craggy coyote
The Cam intentionally made killing laborious not because it'd completely stop infighting but reduce the chances of someone valuable being killed at a moments notice
They often ban duels
marble sorrel
Oh sure, there's less literal stabbing but there's no less 'We are going to actively screw you over'.
craggy coyote
Oh sure, there's less *literal* stabbing but there's no less 'We are going to ac...
... Ok so about that
The Lasombra embrace pattern alone shows that's bullshit
mighty zephyr
I think the Tzimece vibe also runs counter to that
craggy coyote
they actively ruin their childers lives to try and force loyalty, and it often leads to those chidler being slighted and planning revenge
craggy coyote
I think the Tzimece vibe also runs counter to that
I forget isn't the Tzimi thing "incredible over posessiveness leading to fights"
Or is there some specific element to their typical embrace process I'm missing
craggy coyote
Yeah IIRC The Tzimi embrace their strict hospitality rules to keep them from just killing any would be ally on sight right?
marble sorrel
The Lasombra embrace pattern alone shows that's bullshit
I mean, the Lasombra are Cam 😛
craggy coyote
They are now
10 years of Cam vs 600 years of Sabbat
literally 1% of the time since the 1400s have non montano Lasombra been Cammies en masse.
And they still got there by literally burning vast amounts of their elders alive
So much for Sabbat Loyalty
marble sorrel
The Tzimi do it not just for 'keeping killing any would be ally on sight' and also because of well...history. They still have a lot of the 'we are Lords' culturally and the Sabbat like Roads over Humanity. The Road of Nobility was a big one for them, which is all about being a Proper Lord.
Which doesn't really make them good but it does have particular social aspects it cares about.
craggy coyote
I mean NGL "ah yes we are nobles" is not a redeeming endorsement of their loyalty either
Nobles historically are backstabbers by nature
Politics be like that
marble sorrel
Sure but the Road of Nobility is big on being trustworthy to your peers and superiors. As it's more about the ideal of nobility than the truth of it.
hybrid dock
oh i really like that vibe
remind me, is rank 10 really bad to break or mostly fine to break cus i forget how the moral guidelines are measured in these games
marble sorrel
remind me, is rank 10 really *bad* to break or mostly *fine* to break cus i forg...
Anything less than your rank in the road is bad to break. So if you're Rank 6 in the path, 6 through 1 are bad to break.
hybrid dock
gotcha gotcha
marble sorrel
So it really cares about sworn oaths and breaking your word
Treating an inferior as an equal is only a factor if you're Super Road of Kings Brained
hybrid dock
mhm mhm
i do like the vibe of not viewing inferiors as like
really equals
but also being really overly respectful
its got a fun vibe
like its not good but its really fun that if you make an oath to someone beneath you you WILL uphold that shit on pain of death
but also you think theyre a fuckin peasant
marble sorrel
Roads are a bit double edged. They're great for 'My vampire has this specific sorta thing they care about that keeps them focused on Proper Behaviour' but a chunk of them were written a bit too 'Path of Doing The Thing I Already Was Going To Do'
So like, they're conceptually really good
But individual ones are poorly written
nimble gale
Yeah, Road of Kings is one of the three 'standard' vampire roads from the dark ages (the ones that normal mortals can find themselves easily walking within a few weeks of the embrace)
the other two being Humanity and Heaven
marble sorrel
My vampire is on one of the Path of Heaven versions!
nimble gale
I do findt he Roads more interesting than the modern day Paths, personally, but I like them as 'philosophy clubs where sometimes you stab people' over 'religious cults where you stab people all the time'
(of COURSE the mage player likes stab-happy philosophy clubs....)
marble sorrel
Using this as a 'this is close enough/the sins line up' for a Zoroastrian Vampire who's very focused on spiritualism. She's determined to not let being a vampire stop her following Ahura Mazda.
I like it because it's not a 'just do what you wanted to do' road.
There's some stuff there that's going to be problems at times
Like how she does her absolute best to never lie, in vampire society.
That said: Some roads are pretty poorly written and mostly end up as said the 'Path of Doing The Thing I Already Was Going To Do'
vast blaze
Do y'all have any good names for a Gargoyle
Trying to figure out what to call an NPC
Thinking maybe Tarragon
nimble gale
Most gargoyle npcs I've had have cute little nicknames--Daisy, Rosebud, very floral stuff, or are named after waht rock they most resemble (Obsidian was a fun one. Sharp as a knife and dumb as a brick.), or if they're tremere-owned and their tremere is an asshole, get numbers
"Sevety-Four, fetch me my tea if you would."
vast blaze
What rock does this fella look like? Reckon I'll go that route.
vast blaze
That's true
mighty zephyr
is his tail attatched to his arm?
vast blaze
Naw, his back
It's an odd perspective but it's not AI, this was made looooooooong before that was a thing
pure mauve
It looks like a ponytail almost.
high current
i once had an Earthdawn game where one of the party member was an Obsidiman, literally a rock-person, called Thorium
we jokingly used him as a unit of measurement many times throughout the game, and this was before the 'absolute unit' meme became a thing
mighty zephyr
I was in a Traveler game where I made a rockman who got into the Union by virtue of his best selling series of erotic novels.
frank atlas
Taming of the Stone
high current
Romancing the Stone too obvious?
mighty zephyr
I think they were called Rock Hard
worthy sundial
straight up rockin it
frank atlas
In the Quarry straight up "Stoning" it. and by "it" i mean, heh,,,,,,,,,,,,, my gayode
mighty zephyr
vast blaze
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE
radiant marsh
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE
vast blaze
...what Backgrounds could a Gargoyle reasonably have?
Can't think of anything besides Generation
heady kestrel
Weird Question but
Have any of y'all done anything funny with Play On Words in demon the descent
craggy coyote
...what Backgrounds could a Gargoyle reasonably have?
Mentor, Herd, Domain, havens, a retainer (Gargoyles can still blood bond people), resources depending on the method. Day trading as a stock broker doesn't require going into an office, in theory
vast blaze
What level of an enemy would a cartel be
vast blaze
The whole thing, and one of decent influence
Nothing huge but definitely has a presence
vast blaze
True
Let's say... Tijuana cartel, circa 2010
Still a decently sized force but what once was the most powerful of the cartels has been reduced substantially
rapid glacier
Probably a three dot; four is a national force and five is a global one iirc
vast blaze
Three dot makes sense yeah
...what's funny is that the cartel isn't even after my vampire, they're after his retainer
Used to be a cartel enforcer but had a coming-to-Jesus moment and fled, and now they want him dead
They barely even know about my guy beyond "asshole that employs the guy we want dead"
rapid glacier
I mean that does paint you as a target, maybe make it a 2 dot enemy with the same power but lower relative frequency of attacks? Or vice-versa
Until they get a reason to hate you specifically and not tangentially
vast blaze
Good point
violet sigil
Does anyone have resources for planning out/pacing Chronicles sessions? I had this whole investigation planned out and my players blew through it in 2 hours lol
Players and myself seem to be liking the system better than our last one so far though
high current
Generally my suggestion is to have more than 1 stage to the investigation.
As in either the crime in question leads into another one for them to investigate, or else is more complicated than it initially seems
violet sigil
Generally my suggestion is to have more than 1 stage to the investigation.
As i...
Yeah leading into something else was my plan the whole time actually, I'm more just wondering how much I actually need to prepare
Since the book suggested iirc 1 clue per session which uh
Was not enough at all lol
high current
I usually aim for one clue/scene per hour of expected session time iirc
Which, they might find all the clues in the first scene, but the idea is to have clues point in different directions so they spend the rest of the session actually investigating the different clues
frank atlas
An investigation is a hand with many fingers
Next time they investigate try to spread out clues geographically. Time is the main resource other than blood kindred spend
Hmm. One sec I'll get to my pc and show you something from trail of cthulhu
violet sigil
Next time they investigate try to spread out clues geographically. Time is the m...
I did spread out the leads over different locations they just went through it all really quickly
I think my problem was that I made them too specific so the players pieced it together easily?
frank atlas
Mm. Alright gimme 5
violet sigil
no rush, probably going to take a bit until I can respond anyway
frank atlas
Okay so, this is a scene map for a one on one detective story. There's a start and an end, then a web of scenes that lead into each other. You'll notice that there's a web of scenes leading upto the moment.
Imo what you want is a conspiracy tree. A conclusion then various places to climb the tree, reinforcing conclusions
violet sigil
Makes sense
frank atlas
Pacing is a skill you are going to learn over time
But for now, think of conclusions, make sure there are multiple ways to arrive at that conclusion
And make sure the prince demands an airtight alabi or whever
high current
put it this way; sure, you have some evidence that Dr. Acula might be a vampire. but are you willing to murder another, mortal, human person, on a maybe?
(what i mean is, present that question to your players)
assuming they're not being paid to look into it and are just freelancing occult investigator types
violet sigil
It's less of a murder mystery and more of a missing person investigation in my case
violet sigil
I'm realizing that in game terms what ended up happening is less of a "they solved the mystery already" and more that they're just headed to a new location with more clues though
frank atlas
Hmmm!
orchid void
oh!! i think lusanati very much got my answer in one, which is "Draw a Beat Map"
violet sigil
What is a beat map?
orchid void
Kind of exactly this! You mark out the "beats" that have to happen for the story to work, then you string those beats together for the players and let them start of the map and then move them to the next beat according to how they handle the first
Cyberpunk RED actually has a very good essay/chapter about how to write them (for cyberpunk specifically) [but i think that Cyberpunk and Chronicles share enough neonoir DNA that the lessons are applicable]
frank atlas
the conspiramid is a campaign wide version of this
tracking the relations between rungs
violet sigil
sounds like I need to write up some more flowcharts
craggy coyote
sounds like I need to write up some more flowcharts
Saw some clue discussion wnated to make a suggestion of following the design philosophy of gumshoe:
The Gumshoe System is designed around the idea that investigative scenarios are difficult to run with most role-playing systems. The problem is identified as important clues being missed due to failed dice-rolls, resulting in play grinding to a halt.
The Gumshoe System is designed to solve this by making the game not about finding clues, but about interpreting them. Attention is given to designing investigative scenarios, while at the same time the focus is put on encouraging the players to take control of the investigation (and, thereby, the story being told).
Basically, always ensure your players ahve a few guaranteed hooks and clues they can interpret, with skill checks being given additional information. if they can't do it themselves, then they can have some fun plot of options of consulting experts (who may lie, or try to indebt them).
For example, don't have players roll to notice the weird occult symbol, but have them roll to see if they know the meaning - if they don't they may need to take a trip to the local college. Hope the professor isn't in the cult... or ghouled.
You can subvert this rule here and there, but I suggest having some general "if all else fails I can bring this to players".
Flow charts work great for this, so can just writing out the relationships in a google doc of
"NPC A Knows this, wants to know this, will lie about this"
violet sigil
I have the opposite problem of that
Players steamrolled through all the clues I set up before hand more or less
worthy sundial
then u just need more obstacles i feel
the prep for which would work the same as clues tbh
violet sigil
Yeah probably
How squishy are CofD mortals without weapons or armour? I'm tempted to take the advice I saw earlier of adding in some supernatural monsters and stuff to slow the players down since they're getting close to a point where it makes sense for those to show up, but I don't want to just murder them lol
orchid void
How squishy are CofD mortals without weapons or armour? I'm tempted to take the ...
exceedingly! mortals and mages are the squishiest, if you're throwing monsters at people, they should run, hide, or generally try to outmaneuver
nimble gale
A mortal is fully capable of being beaten to death by another mortal with a stick, much less a monster with one.
frank atlas
For some reason I always find WoD's fire bad theme funnt
"I defy you to find a single thing that likes fire"
nimble gale
lore of fire demons
craggy coyote
Arguably its more fire good or fire purifies as symbolism
The vampiric, the worst of werewolves... all are purged in flame
(this will lead to no fanatacism ever)
In vampires case i'd sya its cloer to good/purifying
orchid void
the Fire-Touched love fire. they love it so much. its a metahpor for faith. and that's why they're burning forsaken at the stake.
frank atlas
I guess ultimately the flamethrower being a decent guess for any issue a hunter might be having is just amusing
Werewolf? Torch it. Lick? Torch it. Mage? Torch it. Ghost? Hmmm. Torch it, see if we get a fetter.
elder fulcrum
i know i will Never Ever Ever Get To Play Mage but i was thinking about mage characters as a hypothetical
and dear god i think twisting cult of ecstasy and using "rush of feeling that alters the self" to play on the 'power-in-hope-and-wishes' sensation of a magical girl could be REALLY fun
like. it's the kind of thing you'd have to do in a very trusted group to handle properly (which my WOD group fortunately is) but i think it'd be a ton of fun
orchid void
oooh that does sound pretty kickass
elder fulcrum
yea!!! im not suuuper well exposed to magical girl stuff so id have to do some binging just for research (hehe woe is me oh no) but i think twisting that aesthetic into the hazy mess that is mage/wod combat could be really fun and there's also soooo much potential for What Magical Girls Stand For in a setting like wod's
orchid void
yeah people made a whole nwod game about it back when madoka first came out
so the concept definitely has legs
lucid cape
Oh, exalted is made by the same group as wod?
worthy sundial
it was published by the same company yea
lucid cape
Neat
worthy sundial
altho i think its published by onyx path now
craggy coyote
Mmhm. Which is technically a branch of white wolf that split off after... controversies and Paradox being sick of white wolf's shit
I need to find sources, but my understanding is there's an implication that one explanation for the Imbued from the original hunter was "baby exalted"
velvet sparrow
Originally, Exalted was supposed to be a mythical distant past origin for WoD
I believe they decided otherwise before Exalted 1e was released
But they did do a little nudge and wink towards that with the Imbued
dusky ledge
Fucking screaming after tonight's session
Started with our Gangrel in fury frenzy after a training session with our Tzimisce gone awry
And after next week, I'll finally have enough to buy Blood Sorcery 5
frank atlas
I need to find sources, but my understanding is there's an implication that one ...
There's some shared names? Ebon Dragon shows up briefly before it got retconned.
lucid cape
I may be dumb, but, how do uratha usually get territory, like how do they not accidentally land on someone else's
worthy sundial
I may be dumb, but, how do uratha usually get territory, like how do they not ac...
when theres no other uratha around
marble sorrel
I may be dumb, but, how do uratha usually get territory, like how do they not ac...
Other people can't have territory if they're dead
Also: Attempts to civilize the tremere are so far failing.
Aininur(Banu Haqim): "I think Cassia can be a good person, if she's not treated like a stereotypical tremere."
Cassia (Tremere): "Watch this!" *Steals magic, pacts with demons and makes gargoyles*
Onyx Path became a thing way before Paradox had any involvement
worthy sundial
the local protectorate probly has a map of which of its member-packs r where, but theres no formal system of delegation for newly-made packs; that one just hasta figure that shit out by itself, which means run-ins unless u dont wanna deal w that thing for ur chronicle
high current
they split off after the original White Wolf was bought by CCP so they could try to make a WoD MMO, which ended up going nowhere, so that RichT could license oWoD stuff to do the 20th Anniversary Editions, and then eventually they also started continuing nWoD before they just said fuck it and did a second edition(which was largely caused by Paradox buying up the rights; before Paradox stepped in, 2e was just 'the god-machine rules update')
worthy sundial
god a wod mmo sounds so insane but so sick too
imagine an mmo set in seattle
what do u even replace the playloops w,,
high current
there were some screenshots and stuff of what they had when it eventually got cancelled
no idea what the actual gameplay loop was going to be or the plot, but it had some AssCreed-like wall climbing stuff
marble sorrel
what do u even replace the playloops w,,
lfg Ul-Shulgi Raid
high current
(all they had working by that point was Vampires iirc, but the plan was to eventually add other splats)
worthy sundial
oughhh
i do think the main problem w this is that it would probly breed the most toxic mmo community ever
but it woulda gone so hard
lucid cape
What happens to newly changed people uratha
worthy sundial
they hunt alone until they find others, either an established pack or the only other uratha around
high current
the wolf must hunt
marble sorrel
i do think the main problem w this is that it would probly breed the most toxic ...
Yeah to be frank this sounds really misererable to play a lot of clans in.
high current
(even if they dont know the rite of sacred hunt, they're likely to feel obligated to hunt things in some way)
worthy sundial
Yeah to be frank this sounds really misererable to play a lot of clans in.
can u imagine the drama
marble sorrel
Like if I'm playing a Banu Haqim and my disciplines are 'Sneaky, Stabbing and Sneaky Stabbing' and the other guy dosn't have to take part in combat if he doesn't want to...
What do I do
worthy sundial
the malding, the callout posts
worthy sundial
What do I *do*
i do imagine thered still be npc quests
the wikipedia article mentions npcs at least
marble sorrel
Oh yeah, it's just this 'combat involves permadeath but you can play without combat' feels like it's gunna get really toxic when different clans are differently able to engage in non-combat stuff solidly.
'you want to REALLY play the game? Make a tremere or toreador. Brujah can go sit in the corner'
worthy sundial
yea def
marble sorrel
It's also funny as the game has a plenty good justification for not killing players who get taken out.
They got sent into torpor
elder fulcrum
just wanna gauge here - for vtm, how much xp do you guys normally get/give out per session? i know it varies depending on what you do but is there a typical range?
worthy sundial
which edition r u using
cuz v5 at least has a recommended range
The Storyteller awards each player 1 experience point per session played, plus 1 point at the end of each story. In shorter chronicles and others where more rapid improvement adds to the drama, the Storyteller may choose to award 2 points per character at the end of each session.
elder fulcrum
v5, ye!
ahhhh. curious
that's fair then - our group rotates between vampire/werewolf/hunter 5th, and when we get like 3 on average in hunter/werewolf we always feel like. Robbed only getting 1 in vampire
but it does make sense overall
worthy sundial
i wanted my pcs to fuck around w powers so i went for 2xp per sesh
rapid glacier
W5 also has “accomplished a major goal” for 3-5 xp, I was gonna give 3 for each step the pack completes as part of establishing their Bawn, with 4 for establishing a pack or Caern patron
You gotta fuck with the xp a little bit, I feel; otherwise it’s very slow for most games
YMMV of course
high current
yeah RAW V5 xp is intended for very long slow-burn games
tough pebble
oughhh
Ah yes, Eve Online 2.0: Vampire Edition
You know, the game that could turn a watershed toxic from the salt at its height
tough pebble
I'm thinking of those old-school Eve maps where Jita was a black hole, but every city is just drawn as a hell pit you should never enter
marble sorrel
I'll admit, part of my sour feeling towards the concept of that MMO is that 'It's designed to not be high combat' when well...a lot of disciplines are either MInd Control (Makes players salty) or Combat (Not intended for this game). I'm curious about what sort of mechanics would matter in the game.
If that remotely makes sense?
high current
i mean, it sounds less like the game was not intended to have any combat, and more that it would likely have PVP and non-PVP servers/areas 
and if you dont want to engage in combat you simply do not interact with the PVP areas
orchid void
I'll admit, part of my sour feeling towards the concept of that MMO is that 'It'...
from this reading?
Probably the way Minds Eye Theater works
Just with an avatar creation process instead of costuming
The difference between a long running mmo server and a long running larp is location and mechanical enforcement- a lotta the social dynamics work out so why not go for it
elder fulcrum
i know i will Never Ever Ever Get To Play Mage but i was thinking about mage cha...
okay WOW the stars aligned for me here !!! found my way into a mta oneshot next week 
orchid void
nicenicenicenice
elder fulcrum
this means i have to read all of 20th in. less than a week. i believe in myself
orchid void
i believe in you too
nimble gale
Good luck!
orchid void
remember that mage is a game about arguing so sharpen your paradigm and get ready to Have Fun (Academic Infighting Style)
nimble gale
philosophical knife fights aren't entirely nonliteral when dealing with mage
orchid void
you are in REAL FICTIONAL DANGER at ALL TIMES
elder fulcrum
TRUE.
arguing magical girl style it seems. have to figure out how that's gonna work. 
nimble gale
in M20 terms, for magical girls, I'd do something like...
In a world of gods and monsters we must embrace the treshold to transcend our limits as the like, guiding paradigm here; likely practice,s hmm...
high current
Witch, God-Bonding, or Psionics seem like good fits to me, for some of the classic styles of magical girl
potential practices: circles/geometric designs, music, dances and other movement, energy, fashion, invocations(shouting your power names), symbols, toys, wands
there's more options than you need there so it'd depend on what you want out of the concept
for a classic sailor moon thing, i'd say
music, dances, energy, fashion, invocations, toys, wands
elder fulcrum
i will do proper research tomorrow!! may check myself here and there in this channel as i do if that’s okay, eheh
but thank you for the pointers, will keep em in mind
high current
i mean there's also just 'lol who cares what the book says write down whatever makes sense to you'
orchid void
Yeah, but that’s not super helpful when you’re learning
hybrid dock
generally its good to delve deep into the actual rules before blurring them
frank atlas
okay so this came up in conversation recently
is this any good? I'm told it's meant to be written by someone who actually gave two shits, but
well, that doesn't garuntee anything
marble sorrel
I've not read it personally, though I"ve heard good things.
marble sorrel
...you know, ti's kinda funny that the Second Inquisition book has nothing for Hunter in it. You'd really expect it to be both a Hunter and Vampire book, with it covering the primary groups hunting right now.
frank atlas
nah man, the big groups are evil man. they got like, an agenda man
marble sorrel
The Society of St. Leopold is right there and was a mainline hunter group for ages. XD
...as an aside: Man, Second Inquisition gear makes them seem kinda 'loot pinata' if your group likes that sorta thing.
Power Armour, Fancy Supertech Sensors and relics that improve True Faith are all kinda...a lot.
True Faith Vampire when people carrying holy relics keep turning up:
marble sorrel
I mean, Apostates is designed for people who've left organizations. Not active members. It's also lacking a lot of the SI groups/the X-Tech they bring.
...huh, that's an odd pondering. Despite it being the place with the Big Vampire Stuff, I can't find much about what middle eastern groups there are that would fall under the 'SI' label. You'd think that those countries dealing with the Most Vampire Bullshit would have stuff.
frank atlas
...huh, that's an odd pondering. Despite it being the place with the Big Vampire...
I would find it funny if the vampire hunting group was just "Mossad"
like no special division, it's just all of mossad
marble sorrel
like no special division, it's just all of mossad
Which would be funny considering the Banu Haqim have members in Mossad
And not in a like 'they secretly control it' way. They just have you know...vampires...who have personal connections to people still among the living.
Because the Banu Haqim have a pretty long-standing rule of 'Protect humans from the predation of other vampires'
frank atlas
The referees
high current
The Society of St. Leopold is right there and was a mainline hunter group for ag...
Apostates gives you the tools necessary to play members of the orgs, and information that members would have
it even has a bit in the last chapter about sessions set before your characters left whatever org(s), granted that's with the assumption that they will eventually leave
including Leopoldites
but thats mostly because 5e is big on capital-H Hunters being in it to protect people, while orgs usually have an ulterior motive; in the Leopoldites case, as the church, they're controlling and quite possibly lying about things to control people(you included)
(one of the example character concepts is someone who realizes they've seen evidence of evil, and potentially demonic forces, but none of god or heaven; another is a woman who gets stuck doing paperwork in a back office; another is a man who gets a brief dispensation to take care of his mother when she gets sick, but they wanted him back before she was okay so he refused; the last is a student who finds out about monsters because of the society attempting to recruit her, because she'd rather work without them)
marble sorrel
Still wondering if we're ever getting the Invested in the game about them but at this point i guess not.
marble sorrel
(one of the example character concepts is someone who realizes they've seen evid...
Demon: The Fallen "Have i got something to tell you about demonic and heavenly things~"
mighty zephyr
The Invested?
marble sorrel
The player characters of Hunter the reckoning
mighty zephyr
The Imbued
marble sorrel
My bad got the name slightly wrong.
velvet sparrow
Still wondering if we're ever getting the Invested in the game *about* them but ...
H5?
Explicitly no, by this point I believe
mighty zephyr
Yeah we're not getting them
We're getting Hunters, the guys who have been Hunting before the Reckoning was a thing
dusky ledge
Oops! The coterie stumbled into a secret fringe cult maybe??
marble sorrel
...kinda frustrating to not get a successor to Hunter: The Reckoning in Hunter: The Reckoning but okay.
mighty zephyr
I mean I imagine people felt the same way about the original Hunter the Reckoning not being a proper Hunter's Hunted splat.
marble sorrel
I mean it also established itself as a different thing with a different name.
Instead of using literally the same name
hybrid dock
Demon: The Fallen "Have i got something to tell you about demonic and heavenly t...
love my demons
mighty zephyr
Well not really
Hunters Hunted was an expansion to vampire and not a proper splat, but for 2 editions was what Hunters were
Then Reckoning showed up and shoved them aside and said that Hunters were reactionary gokus powered by God
marble sorrel
love my demons
So do I but at this point I think every splat/faction i like won't get an update. Which is a bit frustrating.
craggy coyote
Then Reckoning showed up and shoved them aside and said that Hunters were reacti...
that may be the funniest way I've heard the imbued be referred to.
I almost wish they were still around in hunter as antagonists but honestly you could make a slasher have an imbued power set and it'd fit
marble sorrel
Why antagonists? That feels like it would be even more insulting to Reckoning's fans than it already was.
dusky ledge
Trying to brainstorm with one of the other players in my group
They're playing a "good" Tzimisce, by way of being very young and still pretty idealistic. We're trying to figure out how the typical Tzimisce attitude around possessions and control might manifest here, but we're struggling a bit
Best we have is something to do with nature?
craggy coyote
Why antagonists? That feels like it would be even more insulting to Reckoning's ...
because frankly the dynamic between normal people and their supposed protectors over how far is too far to protect them interests me more. it's purely personal preference
high current
They're playing a "good" Tzimisce, by way of being very young and still pretty i...
as a Tzimisce, your blood itself is basically commanding you to take possession of things(especially so when under the clan compulsion)
if they want to resist that, they can, but the beast will be unhappy 
pure mauve
Horrible realization: there is probably a nonzero overlap between Gatekeepers (the Bound faction from G:tSE) and antivaxxers.
This is probably not substantially true. I think Gatekeepers are supposed to be the kind of person who looks at civil rights protests and goes, entirely earnestly, "didn't you already have equal rights? Why are you agitating for more?"
They're centrists. They don't want to hurt people. But they don't want to change things either, because as far as they can tell the system is working as well as it could be already, and the only reason they're able to say that is because it doesn't hurt them.
I'm tempted to put the various splats on a scale with "academic infighting" on one end and "leftist infighting" on the other, but I'm not sure I could articulate the difference clearly enough. Also I don't know all of the splats well enough, and many of the ones I do know tend towards leftist infighting between factions and academic infighting within factions. But it would be funny.
Changelings are the purest Leftist Infighting group, I think. Prometheans might actually be the most Academic Infighting? Probably up there with Mages.
clear delta
Werewolf leftist infightinv
pure mauve
Demons are mostly Leftist Infighting. Sin-Eaters are honestly pretty close to the middle? They're sort of doing both.
At least, as I understand it.
Mmmaybe the changelings aren't 100% Leftist; I could see Autumn Courtiers doing some good old fashioned academic infighting.
clear delta
Mummy is which?
valid merlin
I honestly would have put Geist as the most leftist infighting
pure mauve
Really? Maybe I'm just skewed because I thought the description for... either the Undertakers or the Mourners? I forget which... mentioned academic infighting. But I might be wrong.
pure mauve
Possibly. But then at that point, most of the splats are doing mostly leftist infighting either way.
I suppose that just like in the real world, the infighting could be done by leftist academics so you get both at once.
clear delta
Okay how about
Academic infighting axis
And drama infighting axis
pure mauve
Ooh. I like it.
orchid void
vampire, remarkably, ends up being conservative infighting most of the time
good job invictus, lancae et sanctum, et al
clear delta
Well, order of the crone does support ancient traditions too
orchid void
exactly!
vampires love conservativism. bc they're all old. and there are very few carthian cities
and even those guys are Fucking Boomers
elder fulcrum
maaaage creation hurts my head. i'm trying to think how on earth i could make magical girl combat not Incredibly Vulgar Magick At Every Opportunity because firing beams with Force/Prime is gonna get me paradoxed into oblivionnnn.
elder fulcrum
the potentially easier way is mind screwery with Mind 3/Life 3? Life 3 is very tempting too because if we're playing on hopes and wishes then using those to play the healer and give people strength
though Mind is explicitly said to not be the best for combat. and outside of Mind Illusions i'm not fully sure on what magical girl stuff to really ddooo. but. much to think on!
clear delta
If you wanna be a ranged fighter, you unfortunately can't use beams as your bread and butter
clear delta
though Mind is explicitly said to not be the *best* for combat. and outside of M...
The nwod version of mind has "cause strokes" as an attack example
elder fulcrum
ooooo. curious
clear delta
tragically the game's set in the UK so that's not gonna be tooooo feasible ;;
Acid attacks are common in the uk, I hear
You could use slingshots I guess
Or an archery bow you can hide
orchid void
personally what i built up to with Mind (in nwod mind) was "Hey man meet your new sleep paralysis demon"
i was gonna solve so many problems with "here is your new sleep paralysis demon"
clear delta
Conjure exolosives
mighty zephyr
If theres no witnesses its one paradox dot
elder fulcrum
though Mind is explicitly said to not be the *best* for combat. and outside of M...
my freebie points for beginning are pretty commodified already, 8 going to arete, so i could only get 1 point in another sphere which wouldn't do me too many favours
elder fulcrum
Coincidental is for nerds and cowards
hbfghbfhbfg... this is True but. i'm also very incredibly attached to my characters easily and would be concerned about being way too reckless
mighty zephyr
You are already making a combat character in Mage
elder fulcrum
life 3 is way too good a fit for the character concept to pass up so it's just what i do with the other 3 sphere dots and how they work out for me mahou shoujo'ing it up
clear delta
Shoot spiders at the opponent
More seriously, making animals attack people is a good option
clear delta
Control beautiful plants and ensnare people
mighty zephyr
hbfghbfhbfg... this is True but. i'm also very incredibly attached to my charact...
Alternatively you can just go Spirit 3
And just do all your magical girl shit in the umbra
elder fulcrum
YEAH BUT I WANT HER TO LIVE,,!!!
this is from our typical wod gm and i'm on copium that they might run mage after our hunter game finishes
mighty zephyr
Unless you are going absolutely insane you should not be accruing enough paradox to die
You would have to cast like 15 vulgar spells
elder fulcrum
i seeeee
life 3 and then. something. i guess. idunno
life 3 force 3.,,? my imagination is limited but i'm roughly aware that 1 in a sphere wouldnt do me enough favours
could use freebies to do life 3 force 2 primal 2. possibly.
hybrid dock
spirit's pretty good
elder fulcrum
oh wow i have miscalculated . i can comfortably take life And mind 3 and then throw 2 points at either spirit or forces i'm undecided after rereading them
spirit does seem fun
fair jungle
I have a question about TOuchstones.
How do you retain them when you are like, a travelling nomad or living for more than 100 years?
worthy sundial
i mean assuming the modern day that wod/chronicles r built on like, plenty of ppl move away but still keep in contact w each other
today u have the internet; in the early to mid 20th century u had the telephone; in the 19th and prior, u had letters
mighty zephyr
When you live beyond their lives, you get new touchstones
fair jungle
some v5 examples for when ur guy is Old As Fuck
Many thanks!
clear delta
some v5 examples for when ur guy is Old As Fuck
Vampire watching over a bloodline
elder fulcrum
ok wow magical girl constructed! that was really fun to make i'm unreasonably hyped to play her
just have to hope she doesn't paradox into oblivion in the oneshot
fair jungle
Sister: Is cool but that would never work with us
Me: Why?
Sister: Our Horrible Bad luck
craggy coyote
Finally got to use the coterie rules in V5
👀 I am eager to see the name of the boyband (i had letters I wanted to deliver IC asking y'all to join up but time happened)
rapid glacier
Not by that name, no; o forget which splat covers it but the child of a Ghoul can sometimes wind up a Revenant, which has ghoul-like abilities and durability and longevity, naturally prints Vitae usable by licks, and has a crippling addiction to Kindred blood
There isn’t much extra special about them but I think they might be playable (or easily kitbash able into playable)
rapid glacier
Oh okay they’re kids of Thinbloods not Ghouls, but I guess they’re functionally identical otherwise
What book is that one blurb from, btw?
mighty zephyr
Tattered Facade
rapid glacier
I need to pick that up one of these days
vast blaze
They have anything going for them?
Or are they just the bottommost rung of a totem pole already filled with bottom rungs?
marble sorrel
They have anything going for them?
In v5, no
The addiction to vampire blood is a new addition there.
In previous editions they were just true breeding ghouls without a need for vampire blood.
But they tended to have vampiric banes as a result and were merely long lived, not immortal.
Like some families could frenzy despite being ghouls rather than vampires.
They were the result of everyone's favourite fleshcrafters doing weird vampire genetics experiments.
mighty zephyr
Yes, they are able to learn far more disciplines than a normal ghoul
Still only to level 1 though
They can also learn Blood Sorcery and Thinblood Alchemy
worthy sundial
i like how thinbloods have a whole drug scene to themselves
vast blaze
Odd question, do y'all have any decent ref art for an Assamite
craggy coyote
Odd question, do y'all have any decent ref art for an Assamite
Literally use an ordinary guy
Assassins should not be visibly conspicuous
That defeats the point
If you mean in action or a combat uniform though taht's a seperate matter
marble sorrel
Odd question, do y'all have any decent ref art for an Assamite
Modern? Like any clan, they can be from anywhere (Always have). So almost any character art works.
I'm also guessing you're going for Warrior, not Sorcerer or Vizier?
vast blaze
If you mean in action or a combat uniform though taht's a seperate matter
Oh yeah, like a combat fit
vast blaze
I'm also guessing you're going for Warrior, not Sorcerer or Vizier?
Unsure if Sorcerers or Viziers are a thing in V5
...I keep forgetting that Assamites got renamed
marble sorrel
I mean, they fluffwise are. The guy who signed them up for the cams is the leader of the Sorcerer caste because the head of the Warrior Caste got killed by a petulant permanently 12 years old blood god
Also the only guy who was ever a threat to Tremere, personally, in a magical duel.
craggy coyote
Oh yeah, like a combat fit
You can use a lot of things. Special forces looks, under cover ops.
One of the most dangerous Banu I've seen from the past few games is this twink.
That said given the Banu skill set?
Light clothes, dark colors. They're assassins operating at night, they want something that won't weight them down and will be hard to get suspicous of. Look for reference art of parkour, free runners, or swat depending on how armed you want them
This, unironically could be a Banu
marble sorrel
Art of snipers is also good for them. The Banu have a long history of snipers.
vast blaze
Hm, true
marble sorrel
The 1000m Club is one of their social groups after all. XD
vast blaze
I was considering just using art of the Bloody Crow of Cainhurst but a ghillie suit sniper sounds fun...
marble sorrel
It's a fun one. Was founded by an American Marine and a Soviet Sniper pair from the Banu Haqim so they could reminisce about roaming around in WW2 killing and eating nazis.
Turns out the vampire clan with a notable jewish contingent don't have any love for nazis.
mighty zephyr
Unsure if Sorcerers or Viziers are a thing in V5
They are via loresheets
marble sorrel
They don't the Hecata-style 'You can swap disciplines', which is a bit of a pain for Viziers (As it means they're the social caste with no in-clan social disciplines) but you've got what you've got.
craggy coyote
.. do the toreador have a natural sniper group?
in V5 at least they have the natural pre requisites for Unerring aim
marble sorrel
Sorcerers mostly make do based on everyone in the Banu now being a sorcerer.
craggy coyote
Which is so funny
craggy coyote
Sorcerers mostly make do based on *everyone* in the Banu now being a sorcerer.
TBF its more everyone can be a sorceror, but blood sorc is such an exp sink you tend to either go full sorc or for obfuscate and celerity
Rituals cost money
marble sorrel
...I should check if any of the amalgams include some of their old powers. I think they mostly got folded into straight blood sorcery rather than Amalgams.
mighty zephyr
Theres 4 different PTs for Auspex so its not the hardest thing to get
marble sorrel
And nobody in their right mind is bringing back the old Quietus/Celerity Combo Discipline
That shit was broken.
'Hey, what if you could learn a combo discipline that made celerity not cost blood to use'
mighty zephyr
I realized how bonkers shit weird the game design of legacy initiative was
worthy sundial
whats legacy initiative
mighty zephyr
You roll initiative
Then whoever got the lowest declares their action first
The highest declares last
If you cannot do your declared action due it being invalid, you lose your turn
Then, in vampire, you take celerity actions at the end of the turn
marble sorrel
...I did really like the Obfuscate/Celerity combo discipline they had. Where through a mixture of illusion and sheer speed, you got to defend against any number of attackers without penalty. It wasn't he most powerful as come on, how often will you need to defend against 10+ people but it was cool.
mighty zephyr
Thats just weaving now
craggy coyote
Yeah but weaving only works against ranged attacks
for some reason
Though I guess it has to have a weakness
or Celerity characters can just dodge forever
worthy sundial
If you cannot do your declared action due it being invalid, you lose your turn
ohh that
mighty zephyr
Because fleetness right before it also gives bonuses to dodging
Tec why didnt you unnering aim the helicopter pilot to save the primogen
marble sorrel
The Obfuscate/Celerity one also worked for parrying bullets, not just dodging.
mighty zephyr
Well thats just flavor really
Weaving can also be flavored as doing that if you want, nothing saying it cant
marble sorrel
Eh...ish. The difference mattered a lot more in the game it was from.
Where Parry into Riposte was more of a thing/Where parrying with certain weapons (Like shields) gave a notable bonus.
...I wonder if V5 will ever cover Dark Ages.
It was the second most popular vampire setting after modern nights.
Much more than Rome or Wild West were. XD
Oh right, Victorian too. Yeah, more popular than all of those three.
frank atlas
If you're craving it unofficially i think i spotted a storyteller vault book for dark ages when i was snooping
high current
In Memoriam kind of provides some info for playing in the past, iirc, but i dont recall if it provides anything about specific eras
fair jungle
Don't want to be targeted for your blood? Drug yourself
frank atlas
SecInq tactics
clear delta
Ego gear legacy
Their vibe is mostly engineers and maker subculture people with some occult undertones that makes mortals look a bit askance at them
They have some inherited traditions from older legacies, whose physical and astral records they took inspiration from, and still procure old things from them
Foolhardy members attempt to use older ego gear in spite of the risks
Their use of the astral, and space from their parent path, means the legacy keeps close contact and updates each other on research
Some mage fans suggested to me them trying to influence subcultures for their benefit
They have an astral base from which they stock astral items and creatures
mighty zephyr
I feel like you would make it for Mastigos and give it matter
clear delta
Yeah
I posted it here before
Lemme grab
Here
So been making a ego gear legacy in onyx path discord
Legacy that mixes mind and matter into magic items
Taking on symbolism of objects carrying emotional weight and information
Instead of stealing things from the astral, they extract a bit of the essence from astral objects and creatures, and weave into objects to grant them power
It's an idea based on EGO gear/psychoments from Project Moon
They must obtain the samples from the targets, with creatures requiring trickery, deals or pure violence
Mind and matter primary, paths moros and thyrsus. Orders mysterium and free council.
Oblations: Design on paper, writing analysis of mental archetypes
Yantras: Tools for forging or tailoring, literature book
[Old attainments cut off]
Might have a more updated version somewhere
Back on my legacy idea, of makers of EGO gear
Oblations: Design on paper, writing analysis of mental archetypes
Yantras: Tools for forging or tailoring, literature book
1 Classic information attainment. You can gauge a goetia or object's traits. You can try to detect something you want for a project, within a radius
2 You learn the emotional resonance and essence that permeates the world. You may collect it from astral beings, and put it in objects. They become better at certain actions, and resonant
3 Finally, you can properly meld physical and mental. Ritual. You get to alter traits of the object, and put a fitting improvement
Optional: Summon goetia or astral object
4 You may remold the item, and add [dots] numina from the astral subject
5 The item repairs itself over time if it wasn't destroyed, specially in a resonant situation. Users of the item wield it as if they had experience, gaining temporary dots in a relevant skills
vast blaze
How do Merits & Flaws work in V5?
Is it the same in V20 where you can take X amount of Flaws to get Y amount of points for Merits?
mighty zephyr
No
You get a certain amount of merits and at least 2 flaws you have to take
there's no benefit to taking more
high current
beyond story potential
(one of my players almost upped the 1 dot enemy they got from Siren to 2 dots, purely because she thought it would be more interesting, but she stuck with the 1-dot)
coteries do get additional merit points for taking flaws though, from what i understand
craggy coyote
Tec why didnt you unnering aim the helicopter pilot to save the primogen
Brother I was at Hunger 4 and had a 44 against a fucking Helicopter
If I roused for that, I was going against 3 inquisition agents with agg shotguns with no weaving
if I roused for weaving It was me trying to dodge 3-4 inquisition agents with good melee pools and a helicopter against me
Having Hunger 4 before the fight even broke out from trying to contain the don's bullshit screwed me so hard
mighty zephyr
Just shoot the pilot ez pz
craggy coyote
Just shoot the pilot ez pz
marble sorrel
One of these days I do want to make a True Faith vampire who's primary method of getting blood is Communion. A Lasombra would be the stereotype there but there's a lot of good vampire options there. Transubstantiation was confirmed in Hunters Hunted to work if you've got true faith.
"How the fuck are you jonesing for going to church?"
Would be very limited (Church isn't constantly running every night after all) but unique blood access.
frank atlas
wait really
so the wine is the blood of christ if you believe hard enough it could be
marble sorrel
so the wine is the blood of christ if you believe hard enough it could be
I mean, that's how Transubstantiation works 😛
But yes, Hunters Huntered mentioned it works.
That said: The number of vampires with True Faith is Limited.
There's several from previous editions/it was a very expensive merit but even among groups like the Settites or the Lasombra, it was never common
My current vampire, Aininur, has it but couldn't do this because she's not Christian, let alone catholic.
She's a follower of Zoroastrianism.
frank atlas
i do wonder if that means true faith in like
science idk - could make you manufacture artificial vitae for yourself
marble sorrel
There is the occasional mention of true faith in non-religion things but generally not.
True Faith is not just 'You believe in it', it's 'You can do Miracles' level faith
clear delta
Back on my legacy idea, of makers of EGO gear
Oblations: Design on paper, writin...
Needs a lil work still, but shaping up well
marble sorrel
For a while, the Baali clan weakness was 'when confronted with holy symbols, treat true faith as 1 higher (This can take it from 0 to 1).
Which meat they were the only vampires that the average person could drive away with a cross, even if they didn't believe very strongly.
(Don't try this in v5. V5 Baali despite the name are not remotely the same thing as previous edition Baali and this would end badly for you)
mighty zephyr
Well a Baali could still have folkloric block
marble sorrel
Sure but no more or less than any other vampire. It's no longer The Thing about Baali, as they went with a full revamp (Heheheh) in V5.
gleaming wave
v20 is actually a book designed to torture its readers
what the hell is white wolfs problem
frank atlas
elaborate
high current
onyx path and good formatting lived in different area codes at the time
marble sorrel
Achieves Cultivation Through Understanding the Legend of the Wulin Book's Formatting
mighty zephyr
this book is laid out like pure shit
Its the best formatted 20th book too
Thats the fucked part
nimble gale
science idk - could make you manufacture artificial vitae for yourself
Not sure on manufacturing vitae but there is at least one canon Technocrat, a Syndicate member, who has True Faith in Free Market Capitalism. He uses a credit card as his holy symbol and wants to burn corporations down becuase monopolies are perversions of what he believes him.
marble sorrel
What's everyone's favourite/least favourite Path/Road of Humanity replacement? In Dark Ages I'm a big fan of Road of Chivalry as it avoids 'Path of Doing What I Already Wanted To Do' issues and it remains clearly 'This is how I avoid making myself a monster', while also not being Conventionally Moral.
clear delta
Metamorphosis and lilith are interesting
radiant marsh
I am number one W20 defender
I’m still gonna be the first to admit whoever was in charge of the layout was probably drunk
So me how M20 is even worse
nimble gale
I accidentally had someone who had never played wod before start with M20. I thought he had experience with wod. I thought he knew.
stares into the distance
gleaming wave
My gnostic tremere character is coming along nicely
They have the sleeping with the enemy flaw
Not only is one of the coterie members a Salubri but he's also having an affair with a toreador in the Sabbat
frank atlas
amazing
vast blaze
Is there any advantage in being a Thinblood over a true vampire in V5?
vast blaze
Oh yeah, how good IS thinblood alchemy
high current
it can do some shit that not even blood sorcery can do
and it can mimic up to 4 dot powers from other disciplines
also they can potentially walk in the sun and stuff
vast blaze
It's listed as something you can potentially do yeah
I assume it's like Golconda
...but I mean why would I wanna become human again
frank atlas
Because the eternal nights are a nightmare
vast blaze
Especially if I have Day Drinker and Lifelike
Like at that point I have a pretty decent deal going on
frank atlas
I mean if you want convenience then like i think the thinblood children have it
vast blaze
Yeah I'm no TRUE vampire but I'm really just Human+
clear delta
The premise of the game is that this is a curse
frank atlas
No downsides, 1BP a day, can discipline if taught
clear delta
The premise of the game is that this is a curse
Even if thinblood is not full vampirism
frank atlas
I mean the downside is if you're made they kill you no questions.
vast blaze
Yeah, yeah
frank atlas
Yeah well the question is what's the best thinblood then yeah
Daydrinker, lifelike
Hunt licks in the daytime
vast blaze
...wait, actually, is Blush of Life still a thing in V5?
vast blaze
Man that seems like it'd be a colossal pain in the dick to play around
gleaming wave
not necessarily
just means you only use thaumaturgy
which has 10 gazillion options in v20
there's like 30 pages? of it
tremere glazing
gleaming wave
as a tremere? my ass getting auspex and dominate
vast blaze
I am SORELY tempted to dump all of my merit points into it and say that my ally is a fucking Mage
gleaming wave
is v5 allies not mortals only?
vast blaze
Aren't Mages mortals?
vast blaze
Wait so then what would "a Gifted mortal with magic or other supernatural powers" be?
gleaming wave
magic but not mage magic
gleaming wave
magic but like "sixth sense" magic and like, minor supernatural abilities
marble sorrel
Wait so then what would "a Gifted mortal with magic or other supernatural powers...
A Sorcerer, not a Mage.
Sorcerers do Linear Magic.
So he'd be an Alchemist or a Weatherworker or a Pyromancer