World of Darkness

[nimble gale]

but I think that was a modern nights number, too. I feel like true faith definitely was more common earlier in humanity's history

[marble sorrel]

...is there any tools for a vampire in v5 to work with Spirits (Not ghosts, spirits)? As well...Aininur's entire thing was spirits. Driving out Banes and such.

[high current]

Oblivion for ghosts

[mighty zephyr]

Theres koldunism or blood Sorcery and working with Aapilu who are weird elemental blood demons.

[high current]

i dont think V5 has done anything with middle or high umbra stuff

[mighty zephyr]

But theres no umbra interaction in vampire

[marble sorrel]

Yeah, this is less ghosts and more 'Aininur's first big thing was banishing a Bane of Murder that was inhabiting some armour'

[graceful saffron]

I nod I can't think of a good way, but I stopped collecting V5 after the Lasombra released.

[high current]

yeah i think in V5 that'd probably best be represented using the stuff associated with aapilum, which aren't exactly banes but are similar enough

[mighty zephyr]

Aapilum are rad as hell

[high current]

also Blood Sigils implies that they are what the Banu Haqim dealt with

The ashipu were the Mesopotamian first practitioners of Blood Sorcery, or so the Banu Haqim will tell you.
The ashipu also spoke inwardly, to those parts of themselves, and to other voices in their Blood.
goes on to explain that aapilu translates roughly as 'the one who answers'

like, if i was running a W5 game, i would probably represent a vampire blood sorcerer's aapilu as a bane of some sort; the ones given in Blood Sigils and Tattered Remains would also work, but if you're going against Werewolves you want something with more teeth

[marble sorrel]

Aininur's main 'thing' is that she's a Zoroastrian Exorcist with a focus on getting rid of evil spirits and a tendency to see most things through the lens of her own faith. What the werewolves see as 'Wyrm spirits', she's generally interpreting as connected to the Daeva.

[high current]

one of the aapilu statted up in Tattered Remains is actually called a Daeva, basically tempter demons

[marble sorrel]

Akoman of "evil thought" opposing Wahman/Bahman of "good thought"
Indar that freezes the minds of the righteous opposing Ardawahisht of "best truth"
Nanghait of discontent opposing Spendarmad of "holy devotion"
Sawar/Sarvar of oppression opposing Shahrewar of "desirable dominion"
Tauriz/Tawrich of destruction opposing Hordad of "wholeness" 
Zariz/Zarich who poisons plants opposing Amurdad of "immortality"

(And to be fair, it's very easy to see the various types of Wyrm spirits through that lens if you read the Greater Bundahishn)

[marble sorrel]

I guess I need to find what anti-appilu tools v5 has then. XD

[high current]

i thought there was a ritual in Tattered Remains for banishing them, but i can only find the ritual for summoning them
granted, it does note that aapilum depart at sunrise unless possessing a mortal or animal, in which case they stick around until their goals or their summoner's orders

[mighty zephyr]

Id say youd probably make banishing them a conflict using occult

Rather than just a discipline

[marble sorrel]

...which sorta leaves me going 'Man, what disciplines would she even have?' as if the aapilu are evil spirits in v5 (As opposed to the old Ladder to Heaven idea not really being connected to inherently evil spirits) and blood sorcery requires them she'd likely be a...sorcerer with no sorcery ranks...but big occult?

[mighty zephyr]

I mean you can still be a sorcerer with sorcery ranks

[marble sorrel]

More 'v5 blood magic doesn't really do anything she was about magically'. XD

Maybe I should have tried translating an easier characer than 'Assamite Sorcerer'

[mighty zephyr]

I mean that part of the character is easy to translate, it's basing your character on a specific thaumaturgy path that makes it harder to translate

[marble sorrel]

I mean...that would have likely been true if she'd taken any of the Dur-An-Ki linked paths as her primary path.

Awakening of the Steel or Music of the Spheres didn't make it over either

And Awakening of the Steel was their Corebook Path in V20

But yeah, I'll try and translate a less Thaumaturgy-based character.

...and likely a less 'weird subfaction' one too (I've noticed v5 kinda removed a lot of the clan-specific paths).

[mighty zephyr]

V5 doesn't really have "clan/bloodline specific powers" that aren't Loresheets

[marble sorrel]

...is there anything in Fortitude or Auspex to help heal others? Like, sharing life or being able to touch their soul or such?

(Despite saying I should go 'less weird subfaction' I immediately started looking at Salubri)

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah there's the Salubri amalgam

There's a 2 dot Fortitude 1 Dot Auspex amalgam which lets you heal mortals, then 3 Fortitude 1 Auspex that heals vampires

[marble sorrel]

Cool, so Salubri Healer is still a thing. Kinda surprised they didn't end up with Protean in v5 as that looks to be where most of the 'mess with biology' went.

[mighty zephyr]

I think adding Protean to their line up would stretch their theme a bit

Oh huh actually

Salubri Vampire Hunter got even better with Tattered Facade

with the new power that buffs your Fortitude for the amount of mortals around you

A 5 dot Fortitude Salubri able to go absolutely ham healing their guys and going buckwild with Prowess Through Pain

[marble sorrel]

I could kinda see it, as you've got the combat side for Warrior Salubri and adjusting other people's bodies for the healer side. Though being able to heal with Fortitude is also good for 'Bullshit Vampire Paladin, Medics are not supposed to be hard to kill'

Salubri do mesh well with the new compulsion setup.

V5: 'Hey, your nature gives you things that you feel compelled to do'
Salubri: 'Oh really, is this a new thing?'

[mighty zephyr]

Ah wait you can't get Prowess Through Pain AND Meatshields

damn

[marble sorrel]

...Tremere compulsion feels kinda weaksauce. Like it exists and I can see how it's going to cause trouble at times but it also feels a bit boring. Kinda surpised it's not anything to do with obedience, considering their long history of 'obey the people higher in the pyramid'

[nimble gale]

I think the pyramid got broken in V5?

[marble sorrel]

Laughs in Salubri

[high current]

yeah the pyramid got broken, the new tremere compulsion is a result of that

like, the chantry in vienna was fully wiped out, and the clan has splintered into 4 houses
House Tremere for the old guard who wanna remain with the Camarilla
House Goratrix for those loyal to Tremere the Elder/his boyfriend Goratrix
House Ipsissimus for those who said fuck it and joined the Anarchs, or already were Anarchs
House Carna is cross-faction and more about 'hey maybe we should actually let women be in positions of power'

[marble sorrel]

Hmm...looks like Gargoyles didn't make the cut for v5.

Sad, though I can understand why. They were always tricky to fit into a game, like Nosferatu but without the benefit of 'being named after one of the most famous vampires in fiction'.

[high current]

i could see them getting added in eventually, just, not yet
there's a lot of bloodlines from older editions that dont exist in v5 yet

[marble sorrel]

They're also one of the ones that's trickier to add without adding a new discipline

As 'you can damnwell fly' is kinda notable.

Maybe Protean + Potence? Though that would be more 'briefly form wings for yourself' than 'You just Have Wings'

[mighty zephyr]

Gargoyles are ghouls now

[marble sorrel]

...oh...that's kinda disappointing. I liked them as a weird vampire type/they're one of the bloodlines I always had in the 'some day I'd like to play this in a vampire game' list.

...also kinda surprised the Tremere survived losing the ability to form blood bonds with Gargoyles there.

Generally when the slavemaster loses his leverage over the slave it goes badly for him.

[nimble gale]

Huh, gargoyals are ghouls? Like vozhd-tier, I guess?

[marble sorrel]

I imagine a lot of Tremere got tossed off the top of their own chantries after the pyramid broke

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah they're the results of transfiguring blood sorcery

I also think this works better, reinforces their themes as slaves more.

[marble sorrel]

Man V5 really hates the tremere. XD Their magic got much less cool, the pyramid got blown up, the devs nerfed your slaves and you got a really boring bane/compulsion.

[mighty zephyr]

The Tremere had a lot of favoritism going for them

[marble sorrel]

I'd ramble more but I've been informed that vampires are banned from the internet so I must leave. XD

[graceful saffron]

Tzimisce also lost out. The translation isn't the worst,

but I don't like the new take on Vissicitude .

[mighty zephyr]

I did check and largely it's the same power set

The only power missing now is the ability to make your limb come off and waddle around as a minion

which was a 5 dot, for some reason

[graceful saffron]

They didn't have dominate though, right?

[marble sorrel]

Old clan did. Though they lacked visc

[mighty zephyr]

They didn't

[graceful saffron]

Mhm! I think some of the flesh crafting options are gone? Or can you still make warforms and weird furniture?

It was Vic, Animalism, and Auspex?

[marble sorrel]

Its still got the warform. I think the big thing visc lost in v5 is the mid-combat offensive shaping.

No more fusing a guy's knees and turning him into cotton hill

[graceful saffron]

Drat.

[copper raft]

Tbh that one of the big things for me and my friends yeah- like VtM's essential vibe is gothic punk and being a famous and powerful elder doesn't really scream punk

[graceful saffron]

I find that a really big difference between VtR and VtM, and why VtR works better for elder play. Its more horror than punk.

[high current]

CohhCarnage got to play BL2 and posted his thoughts but it's on twitter so I can't link it

Highlights though

Incredibly immersive
Good vibe management, he enjoyed the neo noir aesthetic
Doesn't think it should be called Bloodlines 2 because it's a very different game, suggested "Vampire the Masquerade - The Nomad" instead

[untold elm]

Did he define immersive

[high current]

Incredibly immersive. Amazing music. Gorgeous environments. Combat is visceral, violent and powerful. The camera snaps around a bit but the soft locking makes it workable. The demo didn't have FOV but assuming it would be better with it upped a bit.

[untold elm]

camera snapping in a first person game?

[high current]

that's all he said on it

[mighty zephyr]

I would assume the executions

[marble sorrel]

...oh, huh. I never realized the that Vancover's Werewolf/Vampire alliance didn't fail due to either the vampires or the werewolves.

The Syndicate killed the glass walkers and it kinda fell apart after that.

Fucking Special Project Division

[olive laurel]

Did they even know they were messing up an alliance or did they just want to kill werewolves?

[nimble gale]

knowing the syndicate they probably just noticed non0-syndicate members were making money and didn't like that

[clear delta]

Bloodlines 2 news
No nosferatu, no malkavian, no gangrel
Toreador and lasombra as dlc

[graceful saffron]

No Nosferatu?

[fair tapir]

more like _no_sferatu-- wait

[nimble gale]

But the sewer rats.....

[clear delta]

Lament, mourn and despair

[nimble gale]

I'm gonna make angry posts on shrecknet instead

[mighty zephyr]

Well technically yes Malkavian

Since the Malkavian in the game is a secondary playable character

[rapid glacier]

one of my VtM players actually said 'oh God did Phyre eat a Malkavian?!'

said player is the diablerist with her sire in her head egging her on to do Tremere Crimes

[mighty zephyr]

The weird thing is that theres like

Little hostility

And the Malk seems way too lucid and nice for it to be diablerie

[rapid glacier]

He could just be really nuts with a warped sense of reality

We won't really know till the game drops I guess

[clear delta]

I'm reminded of a mage the awakening actual play
A slave of the seers ended up in the minotaur's maze with the players due to their actions
The slave is rather calm and courteous when they run into each other. The ST explains he knows they are as fucked as he is, so he isn't really mad

[marble sorrel]

Could just be a non-fishmalk malkavian. XD

[marble sorrel]

Considering they have the pelt of the glass walker leader mounted on a wall, I'm thinking it's the werewolf thing.

[nimble gale]

Oh shit that's 20% of the way to making a syndicate garou

[marble sorrel]

Werewolves/Vampires: "Okay, this is a lot of work and we've clearly got a long way to go but this is a sign that it's possible for werewolves and vampires to work together to make sure things stay quiet and neither of us need to be constantly looking over our shoulder."
Special Project Division Bursts Through The Wall "WHO WANTS BIO-ORGANIC WEAPONS?!"

[nimble gale]

I love the syndicate so much as a villain faction within the technocracy

They ACCIDENTALLY made pentex

[marble sorrel]

Invoking my syndicate style of magic as I buff myself by chanting 'number go up' around a credit card.

...I wonder what magic styles are like in the ex-soviet nations.

Considering Baba Yaga kept both the Technos and the Traditions out until very recently.

[nimble gale]

Just from 1990 on I think

She only put up the shadow curtain after she woke from torpor

[marble sorrel]

Huh, for some reason I thought her bullshit coincided with the actual soviet union but that's more post-soviet.

[patent stirrup]

Yeah she dose keep some of the like ""folk"" mages around who sware loyalty to her IIWRC

[marble sorrel]

I guess an ex-soviet mage would be pretty normal then, as the technos/traditions would have been about during that time.

[patent stirrup]

And the sovit union was the true brugha doing there thing.

[marble sorrel]

Soviet Mage: "Does True Faith in communism work on the Syndicate?"

[patent stirrup]

Lenin's body is preserved becsoue it's a botched embrace not becouse of embalming. there is a lot in russia that is vary diectaly just vamps

[nimble gale]

vamps and werewolves, yeah

[patent stirrup]

Oh yeah the rominovs are like all silverfang kinfolk

[nimble gale]

You just want to re-create that scene from Doctor Who but with capitalists instead of vampires

[marble sorrel]

You can't prove that entirely true thing.

[nimble gale]

also being fair there is canonically a Syndicate member with True Faith in capitalism that uses a credit card as a symbol of his true faith so

yes

[marble sorrel]

I wonder if werewolves have a thing like vampires where they tend to think less of anyone who's being too much of a stereotype.

Like how vampires think less of anyone running around in a cloak talking about vanting to suck blud.

[nimble gale]

unfortunately most garou are a parody of themselves

[marble sorrel]

Got it, turning up to the werewolf meeting in Glabro form wearing my XXXXXL three wolf moon shirt.

[nimble gale]

hell yeah

[rapid glacier]

I think it depends on the tribe because silver fangs and storm lords probably do, but I can’t see a bone Gnawer giving much of a shit tbh

Unless you’re dressed too rich, in which case they’re gonna ask who you stole the drip from

[mighty zephyr]

I think in general garou have an innate larp level that they'll eventually think is cringe

[rapid glacier]

Reminded of a conversation in BoHN that asks one of the pack mates why they’re dressed ‘like a Dracula’

[mighty zephyr]

That entire dialogue tree is gold

Because he always reads you for filth in response

[rapid glacier]

“Why do you look like if Zorro listened to harsh noise?” Is my favorite lmao

[mighty zephyr]

I really gotta do a Galestalker playthrough

[rapid glacier]

That was my dad’s first playthrough which is wild to me he even found it since it’s DLC

Fuckin forgot to talk to you about antagonists this week my bad, I’ve had a crazy one

[mighty zephyr]

About what

[rapid glacier]

Oh I was gonna ask how you’d handle a dragon somehow manifesting, either a real one or something that’s similar

Go full scooby doo and it’s not what it is or the real deal

[mighty zephyr]

In what? Werewolf?

[rapid glacier]

Yeah, the pack is in Roanoke and finds charred bodies and suspicious marks in the ground like claw marks, like a huge lizard was my plan

Wasn’t sure if I was gonna make it a real one getting loose from somewhere or a spirit getting weird

The idea is have to em brush up against Horned Serpent and do things for her until she becomes their pack patron

[mighty zephyr]

So multiple ways

1. Its a spirit, easy

2. A fomori has possessed an alligator and something now its a dragon

3. Lizard shifter
4. Evil wizard

5. Drone strike by local pentex brand

[rapid glacier]

I’d say evil wizard but I’m already doing that for a different group

And I’ve got Pentex subsidiaries as a different enemy elsewhere so I wanna try something fresh

I like the first three, let’s me keep it as ambiguous as possible

What were the uh lizard shifters called? Mokole, right?

[nimble gale]

evil lizard wizard shifter

Mokole, yeah

[mighty zephyr]

Ye

Tho are you running w20 or w5 I cant recall

[rapid glacier]

W5

[mighty zephyr]

Then yeah they'd probably be called "Lizard/Gator/etc Shifters" and you can feel free to go nuts with em

[marble sorrel]

Especially since well...werewolves already have the 'bigger, more wolfier wold than really exists' form.

A lizard/gator shifter like in w20 would have a 'this doesn't look like a real lizard/gator but is symbolic of them/their prior glory'

So you can get away with a lot of 'more dragon than gator'

[mighty zephyr]

Well they also just turned into dragons

Sometimes

[marble sorrel]

Sometimes it was dinosaurs. Presumably they spend a lot of time complaining about the jurrasic park movies focusing too much on hybrid/mutant dinos these days instead of 'proper' ones.

[mighty zephyr]

But yeah with the set up now that Incarnae are directly involved with their respective shifters

Theres a lot you can do with the Children of Dragon or the Children of Gator or whatever it is you wanna do

[rapid glacier]

Now see I thought Dragon was just an aspect of Horned Serpent, I suppose I could just say it’s its own thing

[mighty zephyr]

It could be

Though it could be the other way around

[rapid glacier]

But you’ve given me a good jumping off point, I’ll post what I come up with to share with the class when I get some time to put pen to paper

Oh actually I just remembered, I’ve established in my game there are like Incarnae of a concept (in this case Thunder) has lieutenants (Taranis, Vaughn, Grandfather Thunder) that are like minor or lesser Incarnae, maybe Dragon and Horned Serpent have a similar deal going on

I like these ideas though, thank you this has been a block for me

Turns out going “have a long ambiguous fake out” isn’t as easy to plan out as it looks without two concrete endpoints to bounce between so cheers for that

[mighty zephyr]

Have you read moonlit path yet

[rapid glacier]

Yeah I established this before Moonlit was even announced so I was very happy to see someone else had the same idea

They handle it a smidge differently but it’s close enough (Grandfather Thunder is actually an extremely ambitious Stormcrow spirit, for example)

(In my game, I mean)

[mighty zephyr]

Thunderbird hoooo

[rapid glacier]

Yeah I loved the idea of Thunderbird from CofD’s werewolf book and the name is very evocative

[mighty zephyr]

Well its like

An actual thing in certain native American mythos/religions

[rapid glacier]

Yeah my mind went directly to Quetzalcoatl

[mighty zephyr]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbird_(mythology)

Hes just called Thunderbird

[rapid glacier]

Huh, it’s even prominent in Algonquin myth, interesting

One of the NPCs is technically Algonquin

Or was, there is some debate as to wether he’s dead or not, you know how difficult it is to kill a Garou

[grave gulch]

Thunder bird makes me think of a bird that's just LOUD

[clear delta]

Reminded of el gato del diablo
A story of a player bringing to werewolf the apocalypse a combat specced werecat that had a flaw that made oxygen piss it off into a rage, among other flaws. He was supposed to be tied to a table hannibal lecter style and released when combat started
Edit: forgot to mention, sedated on the hannibal table

[marble sorrel]

snrk

In worrying/unfun things - I've just found out that werewolves are super vulnerable to Baali tricks in V20 Dark Ages.

Mortals and supernatural creatures bound to strong emotions (such as fae or ghosts) may not contest this roll; other supernatural creatures may make a contested Courage roll (difficulty of the Baali’s Willpower).

stares at 'strong emotions that make you freak out' being a literal stat for werewolves

...they also take double damage from the offensive combat power as they're spiritual beings. I guess the guys who are full of hellfire being good against the guys who are half-spirit isn't really surprising.

[clear delta]

Imagine werewolves would have come up with countermeasures

[marble sorrel]

I think the countermeasure is 'eat the fucker'

It's generally a good anti-wormtongue strategy

I'm also not 100% sure how some of the effects would work. As werwolves don't really have a morality stat.

But the in-universe effect (Making someone lose confidence in their role/losing some of their mental grip on who they are as a person) is likely something that werewolves are not inherently immune to, just a case of 'would need GM to adjudicate how you track that'

Each success allows for one turn of the Adramelech’s Wrath at most. The vampire suffers sunlight damage as if she were standing outside at high noon. This also causes Rötschreck. The Baali must keep the vampire in her sight while the power is in effect. While she’s not affected by the power, the victim glows white hot, and the Baali must resist Rötschreck while maintaining the curse.

Adramelech’s Wrath not only does not work on characters possessing True Faith, but the power also backfires, bearing the sun down on the Baali for one turn per dot of True Faith.

Suck Shit Baali

[rapid glacier]

I wonder how this roll clashes with “a werewolf in frenzy is immune to mind-altering effects”, because pulling the ripcord of a Garou within line of sight is not really a great strategy for anything carbon-based

That might just be W5, I can’t remember what the older editions have as Frenzy side effects but yeeeeeesh

[marble sorrel]

I think it wouldn't affect an ongoing frenzy but the effect is basicly a forced Fox Frenzy even for non-werewolves.

So I think it could force a werewolf into fox frenzy

[clear delta]

It shows them fox news?

[marble sorrel]

no, ironically that causes the other frenzy 😛

[rapid glacier]

…can Garou get anything other than a regular frenzy in 20th?

I don’t think making them horny is much of an improvement tbh

[marble sorrel]

they've got angry frenzy and scared frenzy in 20th

fox frenzy is the 'flight' part of Fight or Flight

It normally happens if a werewolf does really badly on a rage roll

While the other frenzy happens if they get too many successes on the rage roll.

If they get an absolutely staggering amount of 'too many rage successes' they become in the Thrall of the Wyrm.

Which is being so raging that they briefly connect to the Wyrm's unending raging hatred

And means even her packmates are not safe

Entertainingly, Kitsune have super safe rages as they can only Fox Frenzy, not Berserk Frenzy.

So they're less vulnerable to having a lot of permanent rage.

But they pay for that in being much less killy than werewolves are.

[graceful saffron]

Talks in the main chat have reminded me of Agnes, or "How players can create hilarious NPCs in VtR using the various merits they have access to."

Has any being here played in a CoD game where one player took the vast majority of hireling/npc/contact merits, and put them all on a single NPC?

Ours was Agnes, who was a perfectly normal human who ran the local Lancea Sanctum church on behalf of the player's vampire.

Except - they kept buying merits to improve her.

[clear delta]

@daring hazel you can tell of your character here

[mighty zephyr]

Chronicles was largely designed so xp was largely equally powerful jo matter what it was spent on

[graceful saffron]

Which is why Agnes ended up literally stronger than the PC.

Agnes was a Touchstone True Friend Contact//Mentor//Ally//Staff//Retainer at 5 wherever possible.

I was increasingly aware RAI this wasn't meant to overlap - but while the merits sort of imply the characters should all be different, they don't actually demand that.

I think they gave Agnes another merit by the end of it. I can't recall.

[daring hazel]

Arent some of those meant to represent multiple people

[high current]

Staff and Contacts are meant to represent groups ye
i think it also might be Allies? not 100% sure

but also like, lol, lmao, it game, have fun

[graceful saffron]

Staff is suggested to be multiple folx, but does have a sentence suggesting it can be one person... ish?

Contacts usually represents a sphere of influence. So it might be the Mayor's office, but the NPC you explicitly interact with is the Mayor.

So Agnes ran, in both cases, the women's auxiliary at the Church, but was the point of contact for both.

Retainer has language that compares itself to Mentor, but never directly specifies it can't be the same NPC...

[mighty zephyr]

Allies is meant to be an organization usually yeah

[graceful saffron]

The saving grace was
-Agnes' absurd dice pool was entirely focused around the Church
-It rapidly became a joy, not minmaxing, so I decided to let the chaos continue.

Absolutely an example of "Where does it say dogs can't play basketball" logic, but it wasn't mechanically different from a Character just buying all these merits anyways, minus the hilarity this all centered on a single person.

[high current]

and if the GM wasnt okay with you having all of that, they could simply remove the single person from play Santity of Merits though so you could just reassign them to Agnes's replacement

[graceful saffron]

Mhm! As the GM, I couldn't help but adore that the players built me the silliest quest giver.

[high current]

but also i would hope if the GM actually had an issue they would simply say 'hey can you not give yourself 1 super NPC?' and everyone involved would talk it out

oh i misunderstood, i thought you were the player who created Agnes
the point stands

[graceful saffron]

I nod Absolutely. I did have to make increasingly clear that it meant Agnes was going to start demanding things in return, depending on which merit they activated.

Elderly church secretary telling the vampire party "O, I'm not so sure I can swing that, deary, but maybe if I had one of them bleeding statues that fellow mentioned down at the party you all had, well... then I think I could."

[high current]

reminds me of the time i wanted to run a Hunter the Vigil game, in that weird period between most of the other games getting 2e books and Hunter only having Mortal Remains as a patch, and one of my players wanted to take Resources 5 for a trust fund because his parents were rich but also dead so they wouldnt ever expect him to do anything to get his money
purely so he could afford the materials to make bombs regularly
think i eventually managed to make him reconsider by pointing out that accessing a trust fund would require going through the parents lawyers who would wnat to know what he plans to spend the money on, and there would likely be some sort of stipulation about spending it reasonably instead of just going 'i wanna build bombs to kill monsters'

[graceful saffron]

Precisely. Mentor 5 explicitly calls out the Mentor asking for powerful artifacts or boons...

but Agnes has 0 in occult and largely accepted the Lancea Sanctum as "Vampires are like Priests, but stupider"

So her requests ended up hilariously coded.

[high current]

that game didnt end up lasting long enough to get much out of having Resources 5 anyways i think we got like 3 sessions done before it fell apart due to a mix of scheduling issues and players making weird decisions(one of them made an ex-military dude who...never left his apartment, threatened to shoot anybody who knocked on his door, refused to speak to the rest of the group basically at all. i asked him about it and he claimed he was trying to avoid hogging the spotlight, to which i said 'theres a difference between not hogging the spotlight and not even being on stage'; he dropped out without saying much else )

dont remember what the trust fund baby ended up switching to but i know he went with something less whacky in the end

[graceful saffron]

Mhm. Agnes was a... two year long campaign creation, playing 1-2 sessions a week? She wasn't nearly this frightening until the end game.

VtR is big on slow XP generation.

[worthy sundial]

learning cool actionable things to do in my home city tonight bc i decided to use it as the setting for a v5 game

[graceful saffron]

That rocks!

[clear delta]

God eater making me think of werewolf the forsaken
Could be an interesting inspiration for culture in an area

[hybrid dock]

began doodling my anakim beast concept

ive quickly become obsessed with her

[sacred viper]

Oooh

[graceful saffron]

She's gorgeous!

[sacred viper]

She's truly flourishing

[hybrid dock]

shes an anakim predator with a whole....eldritch moose vibe is how i can best describe it

shes incredibly tall and intimidating in both physical body and horror form
shes also vegan, or at least tries to be considering she is a predator and has to satisfy that urge on occasion.
but like, technically speaking even the Horror is an Herbivore. just one of those Herbivores that will happily crush your skull and be amused at your pain.

...she has a well stocked lair so in her spooky mountains of madness lair there is a large hot spring just for her/her horror.

she can be absolutely flourishing, in her lane

[mighty zephyr]

Anakim Moose?

Welcome back Behemoose

[hybrid dock]

i dont know enough about that reference but i'll take it as a compliment

said anakim...eldritch moose is pictured above

fucked up creature

[mighty zephyr]

I will explain it soon

[mighty zephyr]

So in Impossible Creatures, the RTS, you can combine animals together
one of the animals was an end-game giant beetle called the Behemoth
I combined this with a Moose

the automatic name generated was Behemoose, but for some reason the stats kept getting better as I gave it all moose parts

resulting in a 20 foot tall moose with no additional powers

[hybrid dock]

holy fucking shit

yeah thats this pc

[marble sorrel]

Impossible creatures is fun. Very unbalanced if you know what you're doing but you can make some fun nonsense. Remarkably active modding scene too for its age.

[mighty zephyr]

It's one of those games where there's nothing really like it

[marble sorrel]

Agreed.

makes exalted lunar notes

[hybrid dock]

behemoose....

[fair tapir]

a moose with the proportional strength, speed, and agility of a moose... 😮

[hybrid dock]

shes very strong :3

i gave her cyclopean strength

cyclopean strength + relentless hunter

when she chooses to hunt someone she does the whole persistence hunter beat

[mighty zephyr]

Remember

you don't count as a real Anakim unless you do the HxH door thing

https://tenor.com/view/anime-hunter-x-hunter-gif-11232480

[hybrid dock]

...elaborate- im certain i know what youre talking about though

oh

yeah

that

she might do that

shes quite soggy but yeah

cyclopean strength does just let you do that huh

[mighty zephyr]

One of the best things about playing a WoD splat with super strength is when you realize that walls and doors are lies

[hybrid dock]

yeah lmao

just kinda

the world melts for you

[mighty zephyr]

I played a Deviant with Super Strength 5

Which meant he had like effective Strength 10

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-pryde-xmen-shadowcat-juggernaut-gif-13588119

[hybrid dock]

hahahahahhahaa

god

thats so good

relentless hunter is also just nice because it lets you really survive things you shouldnt be surviving

[nimble gale]

You don't even need super strength to know that walls and doors are lies tbh

[mighty zephyr]

Local Soft Boy Is Unstoppable

[nimble gale]

if you got chemistry you don't need a door

[mighty zephyr]

There's this article I read once

[hybrid dock]

omg....

so cute

[mighty zephyr]

by an ex-criminal who like

one day realized that walls and doors are mind control by architechts desperate to convince you they can keep you out

and you can just ignore them

[nimble gale]

it's like locks

locks aren't real

it is so easy to defeat a lock, even if you d--

my lawyer has advised me to discontinue this line of conversation :V

[hybrid dock]

cyclopean strength really is just...

walk through the wall

its not real

walls arent real

[mighty zephyr]

Get Demolisher

[hybrid dock]

see thats tempting

thats REALLY tempting

[mighty zephyr]

Cyclopean is so funny

https://i.imgur.com/12tQYJF.png

[hybrid dock]

...you know what

you're right

[mighty zephyr]

"Size x (Lair + 1)"

LAIR 1

[hybrid dock]

OH ITS MULTIPLIED

[mighty zephyr]

you can hit people with a car

[hybrid dock]

so even at lair 1

god damn

and isnt the low satiety version "yeah you can just throw shit"

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah

[hybrid dock]

and i also got Giant

[mighty zephyr]

Oh

I didn't realize the satiety expenditure

[hybrid dock]

so thats like
at lair 1
up to 12

[mighty zephyr]

means you get double your lair in automatic successes

on feats of strength

[hybrid dock]

can easily just move anything from here

so

yeah wow lmao

her bit is that shes not like
very obviously muscular at all, she honestly looks quite thin.

but she's also like
weirdly powerful

her moose power

her terrifying moose energies

[mighty zephyr]

https://youtu.be/0fT1C-xCCMg?si=i4qQAK5vWUs69ZPQ&t=207

[hybrid dock]

LMAO YEAH

eventually she can start throwing BOATS

eventually

at lair 4 at least she can throw yachts at people

no wait Lair 3

lair 3 she can throw yachts at people

this is the power inherent in the moose

[mighty zephyr]

Connie had the Atavism where if you kill someone with a melee attack you can move like double your speed and then do it again

Combined with the ability to deal agg with a touch

[hybrid dock]

holy fuck beasts can get a little bit silly

[mighty zephyr]

This lead to him just entering a building and in the blink of an eye killing everyone inside

[hybrid dock]

god damn

[mighty zephyr]

He did that Gojo .02 Domain Expansion bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljqRbZlDAZA

[hybrid dock]

LMAO

god

how are beasts like this

[mighty zephyr]

They are a bit silly in their design tbh

[hybrid dock]

just a little bit

though im quite happy with my herbivorous moose girlie

[hybrid dock]

yeah...

[mighty zephyr]

And Connie had 5 lair by the time the game ended

50 yards of Raging Demon

https://tenor.com/view/jamiroquai-raging-demon-akuma-street-fighter-virtual-insanity-gif-4882929871581083662

[nimble gale]

casually messatsu child, huh?

[hybrid dock]

holy FUCK

[mighty zephyr]

When a game has too many people cling to normalcy I will make the hyper murder freak

[hybrid dock]

honestly a good instinct to have

it provides a good contrast

i love adorable dorks who cling to normalcy

[mighty zephyr]

so do I but they need the guy who's tempting to be Super Evil otherwise it's Too Easy

[hybrid dock]

EXACTLY

correct

the freak is important to the ecosystem

[mighty zephyr]

I did actually get to play the normal to a freak recently in Alfa's PBP Hunter 5 game

where I played a talent agent with a magic-killing dog and SpeakerD played an action movie star convinced that being a Hunter meant that he was the real deal

[hybrid dock]

Ooooo

…oh okay that tracks with speakerD

[mighty zephyr]

we were trying to find the Nostalgia Critic who went missing in Galvle

the place the Yule Goat is from

[hybrid dock]

Wha-wow okay

I can’t believe the nostalgia critic is dead

[mighty zephyr]

I make no statements about the whereabouts or status of the Nostalgia Critic

[hybrid dock]

I can’t believe voy the nelson boy killed nostalgia critic

[worthy sundial]

if u find him is speakerd gonna feature in kickassia 2

[mighty zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/men-in-black-will-smith-erase-memory-memories-gif-5202690

[hybrid dock]

What were we talking about…

[mighty zephyr]

Impossible Creatures

[hybrid dock]

Oh yes!

Behemoose’s lair is full of snow and mirages. A sort of mountains of madness vibe, if I’m referring to the mountains of madness correctly

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylCfXvKmdvU

[hybrid dock]

Yeah exactly

It’s an evil eldritch mountain in the snow

And also…there is a moose

[hybrid dock]

also i love this video

[daring hazel]

Moose girl

[hybrid dock]

pictured here

[daring hazel]

My two best ideas for New World of Darkness characters

A vampire, tenatively named Judith. Who by complete accident, was designed as a perfect fit for the Children of Ypres bloodline (the ones with poison abolities tied to mustard gas)

Thought of her years ago, revisited her, and made the connection.

But her story is that she is a bitter thirty or forty sonething nurse.

Originally she worked in a private religious school where her husband taught. She was kind of a bad person not entirely respecting patient privacy. But then she found out her husband was having an affair with a stufent. And the school covered it up, fired her, and then she lost a lot in the divorce.

So she was able to use some connections and get a job as a night nurse at some sort of senior center.

Nursing home. And there she met her eventual sire. A bitter former soldier who. Huh. She probably sort of fell for him a little. He was a soldier in the first world war and at some point was embraced into the Children of Ypres. Which is part of why he lurks in a nursing home (also one of the only surviving members of his old military unit is there)

And. Also she possibly had a relationship with him

Eventually she joins the Lancea Sanctum

Weirdly, becoming a vampire restores her faith?

Also she might smoke/vape

[rapid glacier]

Love a vampire who smokes

That’s my secret ST code/handshake for “this person is cool or trustworthy”

[daring hazel]

nodnod

[rapid glacier]

I have a Malkavian NPC in my werewolf game who smokes blood-infused cigarettes to take the edge off of being a taxi cab driver

Does it work? Who cares, it’s cool

[daring hazel]

nodnod taxi driver. A classic

Hmm. My other best idea.

[rapid glacier]

Well he’s also the Viceroy of his little locale, mostly because he runs a courier service

Like a shitty backwoods prince of circumstance and because nobody else likes him very much

[daring hazel]

For a mage game. Former soldier who was badly injured by an IED which caused him to awaken as a Thyrsus. And killed his best friend. Who he remembers going to the Supernal with him. But only one could take the high road home. And his friend didnt survive

So. The soldier is very interested in death and the underworld. And thinks his friend might still exist

And I’ll be in Scotland a’fore ye,
But me and my true love will never meet again,
On the bonnie, bonnie banks o’ Loch Lomond.```

[marble sorrel]

I am dangerously tempted if I play in a Dark Ages vampire game again to make someone with True Faith from Egypt who's kinda salty that the osirans and settites are arguing about the gods being vampires instead of gods XD

'I'm going to invent the term cultural appropriation just to have something to accuse you assholes of'.

[hybrid dock]

HAH

[marble sorrel]

Christ the V5 Lasombra bane is nasty.

That's like 2 entire banes worth of 'bad shit happens to you' in a modern game.

'You can't use technology at all/you are immediately obvious on any system' is crippling in an era of smart phones and security cameras.

[rapid glacier]

Ayup

Although it’s technically just a penalty to tech use equal to your Bane value, so if you’re not quite hi blood potency you can still get away with some things

Smartphones probably not, but like analog devices for sure

There is a reason Lasombra tend to have retainers, that way someone can answer the phone and send emails

Or help you put makeup on since you can’t see yourself in the mirror

[marble sorrel]

I think I'd rather be a Nosferatu. At least that allows the internet 😛

You know, until the Carmarilla made the internet illegal for vampires.

[mighty zephyr]

It's to balance that you're the coolest motherfucker in any room

[rapid glacier]

Arms of Ahriman is like the sickest discipline power

[marble sorrel]

Ah but I can just eat a Lasombra and learn the cool powers 😛

[rapid glacier]

Yeah but Lasombra taste awful

Like drinking the world’s edgiest and most depressed Capri Sun

[marble sorrel]

Sorry, I can't be held responcible for occasionally snacking on a Lasombra. It's my clan flaw 😛

[clear delta]

As long as you don't eat humans, you can eat any enemy as a werewolf

[marble sorrel]

It is fun with Aininur that she's:

A) Pretty definitively the team member with the most functioning moral compass.
B) Somehow the only one in the team who sees no issues with Amaranth/Has actively committed it

The very first person she drank was another vampire who'd betrayed her sire and said sire handed them over to demonstrate to the new vampire how traitors are rewarded.

[clear delta]

Thinking of a lodge all about eating, so your stomach becomes able to est anything

[clear delta]

Lol. That's a fun perspective

[marble sorrel]

Her general stance is she doesn't like killing people.

But if she's killing you, she's not going to be 'Oh, I can't kill you this specific way. It's too mean'

😛

Though she might avoid it for Baali purely out of 'I am not touching that with my mouth, it's rancid' reasons.

[worthy sundial]

v5 adding a relationship map was a great idea

[worthy sundial]

chat does the sabbat not tend to have domains (or at least make a big deal outta it)

im using crimson gutter as a base & it doesnt even mention the church of cain as like a power faction

[marble sorrel]

Is this v5?

They took a serious beating in v5 and lost most of their areas of power

[worthy sundial]

v5 yea

albeit timelinewise this games set in 09 and im not sure abt their power status by then

ohh wait the sabbat & church of caine r different guys

lmao i literally set this game in the one year that seemingly doesnt have lore on it

[rapid glacier]

That’s the year the Technocracy wiped clean on account of The Incident

What happened? Don’t worry about it, you don’t remember it anyway

[clear delta]

A militarized protectorate to deal with local threats
Hunt targets being listed and assigned to packs

[mighty zephyr]

They dont have stable domains, they have staging grounds for invasions

Crimson Gutter also predates the church of Caine

Like, not timeline wise

Release wise

[worthy sundial]

its in the book tho

but anyhow this is sorta what i settled on (spoilered in case any of pcs see)

[hybrid dock]

Thinking about how unfettered beasts can become horrors can become monstrous things of other books if they hang out in said native realms too long.
That shits wild

[spice abyss]

Yeeee

There's something to be said about Kin

Who knows, maybe it explains Pangeans

[hybrid dock]

God machine making an angel out of a recycled horror

Just grab that thing from the primordial dream and put it in a grinder

[spice abyss]

notes down Demon backstory

[hybrid dock]

i do really love "the god machine found this supernatural being and just shoved it into a grinder for raw angel parts lmao"

its so comically irreverent

theyve just got the big "put supernatural shit into this grinder" grinder somewhere in a junkyard or whatever

and theres an angel dedicated to sorting through the scrap for usable parts

[spice abyss]

Not only angry at the GM, but also so angry at any agency, and never able to explain why

[hybrid dock]

ooooooooo

lmao

[clear delta]

Psychopomp in charge of recycling

[hybrid dock]

its got a bunch of tendrils to dig through the scrap and stuff

[hybrid dock]

theres something really funny to "made up of ground up Horror parts" but also really fucking...sad???

and i actually...really love that

you feel a longing towards some other existence that isnt yours anymore

neither of your instincts seem to feel right

[clear delta]

Actually, there's an angel in charge of corpses and cleaning up evidence, in Night horrors
She loves her job, and loves infodumping

[hybrid dock]

you dont feel comfortable with other demons and you certainly have complicated feelings of other supernatural beings

[spice abyss]

"I should be doing something else! I thought rebelling would fix this, why hasn't it fixed it?!"

[hybrid dock]

yeah

and the whole "family ties thing" is gone

some critical part of you that could connect to other shit is GONE

[spice abyss]

You don't even have that hunger anymore.

[hybrid dock]

and maybe you feel a weird kinship towards beasts but that kinship is mutilated and severed
something muted about it

gah thats such a fun backstory already

(and beasts certainly dont like you)

[clear delta]

Cipher that grants beast traits

[hybrid dock]

yeah exactly

[hybrid dock]

GOOD NEWS IM IN A BEAST GAME AND MY GIRL IS A TYRANT NOW

[nimble gale]

Grats!

[daring hazel]

Hope it goes well

[marble sorrel]

I hope you cause lots of misery and destroy many lives (In fun ways that the other players also enjoy) 😛

[hybrid dock]

HAH

[hybrid dock]

...okay so, im still fairly new to Chronicles games, since the last game ive played in this system was mage and it was when i was much more inexperienced

...but is it normal to be at Speed 10? if only because the speed comparison tables seem to indicate i am at caribou speeds

OH

for fucks sake

the factor is messing me up

IT WAS FACTOR NOT-

well now im embarrased

[marble sorrel]

Oh

[hybrid dock]

lndfkjadshfk

this is on me

i was literally looking at the section confused about how the hell this is supposed to be normal or reasonable and then - "oh wait it says it right there. combined with a factor"

silly me

im normal now

[worthy sundial]

smh cant believe mage wont let me play a human toddler

[simple valley]

@wet ibex uma musume WoD splat (speed factor 12)

[wet ibex]

FINALLY

[worthy sundial]

uma: the derbying

[graceful saffron]

You could play a human toddler in mage, if you allowed a 1e CoD book.

I think it was called Innocents.

[hybrid dock]

huh

[hybrid dock]

SPEED-

[marble sorrel]

I wonder how fast a vampire can get in WoD

[graceful saffron]

WoD or CoD?

[hybrid dock]

FAST probably

[graceful saffron]

CoD basic its... "Multiply speed by dots in Celerity+1"

So you can multiply you speed by 6.

[marble sorrel]

Either, though i"m in a WoD game myself

[graceful saffron]

So, basic human becomes twice as fast as a cheetah, and I think Elder can go faster.

260 km/h?

An Elder can get 10 in Strength and Dexterity, so assuming a base 5 size...

25*6

So your speed is 150

Based on the speeds listed in CoD core book, you are faster than a sports car.

[marble sorrel]

Zoom

[graceful saffron]

Nyoooom

I know you can go much faster in WoD

[marble sorrel]

Our Tremere is making good decisions in WoD

[graceful saffron]

Ooo?

[marble sorrel]

Trading lessons in Thaumaturgy for lessons in Necromancy.

Because she's kinda a stereotype and wants to learn all the dark magics.

[graceful saffron]

Hah! That is going to be a delight!

[marble sorrel]

She's also like 90% sure she's going to try and quietly make off with Baali demonolgy books if she can

[graceful saffron]

Oh no. I love it.

[mighty zephyr]

I once had a Mage slap an older god several Quintillion times the speed of light

[clear delta]

Well not s toddler mage, there's a limit to how young tou can aeaken

[marble sorrel]

Looking through various Fetishes to make now that Aininur has Spirit Manipulation 4

Man, Werewolves have more pages of fetishes than vampires have of entire disciplines XD

[mighty zephyr]

Well yeah, spirits can do anything

[sacred viper]

The woke left wont let me play goo goo magies

[mighty zephyr]

Only the left can awaken because theyre woke

[marble sorrel]

Honestly the ones that most appeal to Aininur are the Healing ones. They A) Provide non-blood costing healing, meaning she needs to feed less. B) Can be used to help others rather than just centralizing all the power of her magic in herself.

The sun crystal would be very funny if it wasn't for the fact that Spirit Manipulation requires being in the same place as the spirit in question.

And I'm gunna put 'vampire walking over to a sun spirit' in 'things that are going to end badly'

[rapid glacier]

Make nice with a duskborn and see if they can help with some SPF 5000

[marble sorrel]

Gaia's Breath - Gnosis 5 - Constructed from a small, dried gourd, Gaia's Breath is imbued with a spirit of healing. The gourd is then decorated with glyphs of praise to Gaia. When the gourd is crushed and then the dust sprinkled over an open wound, the talen heals up to four health levels of damage, even if it is aggravated.

Aininur: "Yes, this I like."

[high current]

take a sprinkling of Innocents with the 'newly awakened mage' rules from Signs of Sorcery, add in a few other PCs who are adults
3 Mages and a Baby(Mage)

[marble sorrel]

Syndicate: "I'm getting boss baby vibes from this."

[high current]

wild thought, another go at the concept of Misfits and Magic, but with newly awakened children

[mighty zephyr]

Main problem youll run into us the spirit would hate you and definitely attempt to fuck you over from within the talisman

Since vampires be Wyrmish

[marble sorrel]

Entertaininly: Right now she's got a pretty half-decent reputation with local spirits. As she did a big favour by saving some local spirits from the rituals of the Baali that were tainting the places they lived.

She found one of the local fae bound by the Baalie in chains of bloody spiked iron and freed it, despite getting hurt in the process.

[hybrid dock]

Ooooo

[clear delta]

Think the justification for no kids in mtaw is that they can't develop the epiphany and take on the supernal view
There probably is also a Doylist answer, likely the sort of things mages see in minds and such being things you just don't want to expose them to

[mighty zephyr]

Well the Doylist answer is trying to make the default assumption that you will not endanger or abuse children

[clear delta]

Yeah

[marble sorrel]

MTAW?

[clear delta]

mage the awakening
The second one

[marble sorrel]

Ah, right.

[clear delta]

There are zero kid mages

Guess you can have prozimus magic as a kid? Never looked at how the process is for them
Proximi are bloodlines with magic and a curse in them

So for example, mountain witches who carry plants within them and must regularly rest connected to earth under the sun or get obviosly sick
Seers that cannot communicate their visions, so take odd actions being somewhat trusted to do helpful things

Each bloodline is connected to a watchtower, and its members only awaken to that watchtower

Seers have bloodlines as their slaves

[marble sorrel]

I guess a kid could be a sorcerer who then awakens later as a mage

[clear delta]

mtaw doesn't quite have sorcerers

There are rituals and spells any person could learn, but they are sorta separate from Awakened magic

[mighty zephyr]

Anyone can just Do Magic in CoFD

Or be psychic or whatever

[clear delta]

In fact, knowing the supernatual already can make awakening harder

[clear delta]

Still, all magic is sorta similar in principle, so a mage can get arcane experience from any weird thing, so they will in fact poke their noses into everyone's business, they can be addicted to mysteries, so to say

[clear delta]

Yeah. In werewolf, geist or mummy, you can pretty much run a cult with some rituals the human members may use

Immortals are a grab bag of humans who found some magic to become immortal
Like a version of the blood bathing ritual
An artistic object you ritually created

[heady kestrel]

What about proximi?

[mighty zephyr]

Pandora just talked about them

[heady kestrel]

Ah ok

Sorry

[clear delta]

Kids, unfortunately, can poke around with abyssal stuff, ending badly

[marble sorrel]

Oh right, Aininur's got a sorcerer advantage that makes spirits like her a little more too. It's kinda iffy on if vampires can have it as oWoD keeps disagreeing with itself about 'can vampires learn sorcery or not' (One book says yes, another says no) but the GM approved it under the basis of 'she had it when she was embraced, she didn't develop it later.'

So that'll help.

[mighty zephyr]

It would be just Banes tho wouldn't it

[marble sorrel]

No, the advantage is all spirits. Right now the local Banes don't overall like her as she's been banishing them from places/she's actively hunting the blood mages who summoned them to kill the local prince.

Right now her actions have put her on bad terms with local Bane Spirits, relatively good terms with local Gaian spirits, good terms with local Fae and 'haven't engaged with them much' with local Weaver spirits.

[nimble gale]

The way I tend to approach it is that Wyrmish spirits tend to have a positive reaction to vampires, and Gaian/Wyld spirits negative, with Weaver spirits being net neutral, but that's a tendency, not a set in stone law

I find it's more interesting than 'all spirits that aren't banes hate you all the time forever'

[marble sorrel]

Weaver Spirit: "We really hate Lasombra though. That's why we edited the pdf for v5 to give them that new bane."

[orchid void]

sincerely enjoying (negative) this post

[sacred viper]

Thank you

[clear delta]

Supernal being trial: play goo goo babies

Maybe Primal Wild?

Or aether

[daring hazel]

You are all very interesting

[clear delta]

Want some info about a game?

[daring hazel]

Sure? At work

[clear delta]

Mummy has horrific god judges that may incarnate into avatars in our world, causing calamity

[marble sorrel]

is that CoD mummy?

[clear delta]

Yeah

You serve the judges, but may have to subdue an avatar of your judge

Generally, humans at the bottom or or top of society are "crowned", chosen. They gain powers and a sense of purpose, and may take a divine avatar form that is costly on energy
The judge may instead pick an animal, seem with respect or as a low being in local culture

[marble sorrel]

Makes sense. Didn't line up with what I knew of oWoD mummy so I was momentarily confused.

[clear delta]

Owod mummy is very confusing to me, tbh

And seemed to have little popularity, so maybe I just had little exposure and reason

To seek understanding

[marble sorrel]

OWoD mummy is basically CoD geist with more of an egyptian theme.

You're not undead, you're back to fully alive and your weakest parts of yourself are reinforced with an ancient egyptian ghost

The clans equivalent for mummies are 'in what way were you deficient in your first life'

Which becomes your greatest strength as a mummy

Those who are obedient and unthinking for example arise connected to the spirit of a great sage etc

OwoD mummies were not just alive, they were about life and living a full one.

[hybrid dock]

i realized i had to specify when i was writing details about my beast

[sacred viper]

Lmao

[hybrid dock]

The doodles continue

[daring hazel]

Spooky.

[hybrid dock]

shes a spooky gal

[patent stirrup]

The thing of oWoD Mummy is that it's two seperate games lines, you have the Mummy line that was ended in '99 with the sorm of souls and then you have Mummy: The Resurection wich is mostly made o WODisems. like Osrius being both the God and the Vampire. and comeing back and returnign his children to humanity to aid him in taking the frameted souls of the old mummys and binding them to freshly dead humans and then reserecting them

MtR is honestaly the seconed worse RPG we got as a birhtday present

[clear delta]

First being?

[patent stirrup]

Oh the Rolemaster Middleearth game

[orchid void]

the first mummy line was a thin paperback splat for Vampire, it was. Real real dumb.

[fair tapir]

you get bit by a mummy and bandages fly out and wrap you up

[clear delta]

Isn't that that nerd from the grim adventures of billy and mandy?

[marble sorrel]

With Kindred of the East basicly wiped from existence, I wonder if we'll get much about vampire stuff across Asia and Oceania. It's always amusing to have 'where you live' basicly not exist in the main gameline. XD

[rapid glacier]

No they exist there still they’re just whatever the mainline books’ clans are

Like throwing out the Hygeniyokai doesn’t mean there aren’t any werewolves in Japan

[marble sorrel]

Oh yeah it's more 'with the Kindred of the East stuff gone, there's not much fluff on what's going on with vampires in the region'

Not much to super hook into if you're running a game in the region

And I do kinda hope the Court of Beasts returns. They were a nice counterpart to the werewolves' failures and a demonstration of how their xenophobia hurts them.

I very much appreciated the sidebar in W20 that goes 'Wait, Court of Beasts characters start with an extra gift? Is this due to special local mysticism? No, dumbass. It's due to them maintaining a functioning society there. If you're not being backwoods berserker racists obsessed with your level of breeding, you can work together and make something better than what any singular tribe could pull off'.

[rapid glacier]

I kinda want to see more formal changing breeds making a small comeback in some way but honestly I’m fine without them being playable, I’d rather have more tribes or weirder gifts in W5

[rapid glacier]

Yeah this was a good addition imo

[mighty zephyr]

Well theres a relatively decent amount of fluff for Asia since they began cutting down on big prescriptive descriptions of locations

We know the Prince of Tokyo is a Tzimece, Singapore has an entire write up, and I think Hong Kong gets a blurb

[marble sorrel]

Singapore introduces entirely new threat to vampires: Unique property laws.

Since all singapore land is government owned and you're just buying a 99 year lease.

Australia is very lean pickings in established stuff for an entire continent.

[mighty zephyr]

And what's there isnt great

[marble sorrel]

Back when Kindred of the East existed it at least had the distinction of being the main overlap of them and traditional vampires.

Nowadays not even that.

[mighty zephyr]

It also had the Bunyip which was a huge WoDism

[hybrid dock]

One of the beasts in the party is an enabler who makes people indulge their worst habits so that they’re good feeding targets for the other beasts in the brood

So

[marble sorrel]

Which is weird as bunyips are more water spirits than anything a woof would turn into. They're more a personification of drowning like kelpies, going by thre limited we have on them.

[hybrid dock]

That’s a great contrast to the slightly less awful party members

“I don’t teach lessons I make people worse so you can teach lessons”

[mighty zephyr]

I think the bigger problem with the Bunyip was WoD saying that a still extant ethnic group was genocided completely

[clear delta]

Oh never knew that, interesting

[marble sorrel]

Well...sorta still extant. We DID successfully genocide various groups. Tasmania for example suffered a total genocide.

Australian history: It's fucked

[clear delta]

Yeeeeah. Just poking genocide in general is very fraught, if not done carefully

[marble sorrel]

A werewolf that actually wanted to engage with the sort of stuff it's poking at would have to handle the Stolen Generation. A cultural genocide that existed until the 1970s

[clear delta]

Oh yeah, the genocide where one group takes another's children to raise in their culture

[hybrid dock]

our local apex appears to be an elder ventrue invictus
i dont know enough about vampire to get a gauge on that but i said that out loud to a friend of mine and they audibly cringed so thats clearly a good sign

[mighty zephyr]

Thats the most aristocratic possible vampire combination

Youre dealing with The Most Dracula Dracula

[high current]

ackshually, dracula is a member of the ordo dracul in vtr, it's in the name

but yeah ventrue invictus is peak aristocratic vampire, ventrue are the most stereotypical 'im in charge' clan, invictus's whole thing is basically vampire lawyers and maintaining the masquerade

[mighty zephyr]

He isnt, they just based themselves off him

[fair tapir]

(as a heads up, we try not to pepe here #the-rules message)

[high current]

noted and fixed

[hybrid dock]

oh boy!

[clear delta]

Most crusty snobby conservative

[mighty zephyr]

Also very stereotypically the Prince of the area

[hybrid dock]

i suppose it makes sense that he's the apex yeah

[mighty zephyr]

Going through the new V5 book again and man the new Disciplines fucking whip harder than any Discipline book has before

[worthy sundial]

whats the new one

book i mean

[mighty zephyr]

Tattered Facade

entire thing is focused hard on the horror aspect of Vampire

Bunch of new Disciplines for all of em and every single one is a banger

[hybrid dock]

hel lyeah

[mighty zephyr]

From old classics to Protean getting Swarm Form

to rad shit like Presence being able to drain human victims of emotion and passion so they can fake being Humanity 10 for a night.

or Obfuscate being able to steal a corpse's face

or Presence being able to have such powerful muscles they shatter their own bones

[hybrid dock]

WOOOOOOO

[mighty zephyr]

Also a sick TBA dot that lets you bloat someone with Blood so you can feed an entire coterie on one person

[hybrid dock]

oh jesus christ

[mighty zephyr]

https://i.imgur.com/5PJFYqZ.png

And of course

Da Bomb

[hybrid dock]

WHAT

[rapid glacier]

ah yeah, finally; they made a pipebomb you can drink

[clear delta]

Nice
Is there temporis abd vicissitude?

[marble sorrel]

I do love Temporis.

[high current]

vicissitude is already in from when they added tzimisce, celerity does get a new power called A Thousand Cuts that lets you add Celerity to an attack's dice pool(unaffected by any other discipline), which does superficial to mortals, but automatically deals enough damage to impair(as in, fill their health tracker), and is fluffed as the victim's body suddenly erupting with cuts made by your claws or other slashing weapon

so, not true Temporis, but something that fits the ZA WARUDO silliness a bit

[marble sorrel]

I really liked the 'freeze someone/see the past' bits of Temporis more than the True Celerity side of it.

My favourite temporis trick was the Dominate + Temporis combo power that let you mess with someone's previous memories.

With 'Hey, we've always been friends' or 'remember when X happened?' sorta stuff

[hybrid dock]

freaky

Jesus vampires are freaky

[marble sorrel]

oWoD vampires are weird/able to do a lot that V5 Vampires can't do, since there was a tonne of disciplines that existed instead of 'a core set of them and then every second clan had it's own unique discipline'

[hybrid dock]

Mhm mhm

[marble sorrel]

For example the Assamites had their own special blood manipulation trick that let them turn it into acid

Which was used for 'Hey guess what, my sword is now flaming and acidic. Enjoy trying to survive this, asshole!'. Or attacking the other guy from the inside by getting some of your blood into his system and then turning it into acid in his veins

[hybrid dock]

I’m fascinated

[high current]

Still exists, got merged into Blood Sorcery

[marble sorrel]

Yeah but it also cost the Assasmites ironically their actual blood sorcery. XD

The Ladder of Heaven didn't really make the jump to v5

So they lost the Spiritualism side of their magic with stuff like Solomonic Magic or Blade Magic.

As v5 Blood Magic is very tied to the 'blood' part of it

Also a chunk of it didn't make the transition. I haven't spotted like 'Fighting Spirits' parts that Sorcerer Quietus had in V5 Blood Magic

Where they could bless blades to fight immaterial beings and see spirits of all sorts

But well...Tremere are the 'primary' sorcery clan so v5 Blood Sorcery is mostly Tremere Sorcery.

And didn't really keep much of the Assamite side of it.

It's all about Blood, not Spirits. While the Ladder of Heaven was about communing with spirits.

[hybrid dock]

Nodnod

That’s a shame

[marble sorrel]

Like I do agree if you're doing 'Vampire Magic' and you're limited to a single path a focusing on 'Throwing Blood About' is the logical choice but I also do feel like it lost most of the character of Assamite Sorcerers and makes them feel like 'Tremere that got a combat discipline'

The Assamite Viziers also basicly don't exist in v5 as v5 Assasmites get zero social disciplines. XD

But that I will acknowledge is due to Assasmites being weird in that they were a single clan with 3 bloodlines.

As they were independent of the Carmarilla for a lot of time and were clearly designed so you could have a Group of Assamites and feel like everyone can play the role they want.

With the Warrior, Sorcerer and Vizier bloodlines.

That said: This is not to say they were always handled well. As they did basicly start in their first iteration as:

'Okay, so do you want to play Hassassin, Solomon or Jafar?'

And got broadened/improved after that.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284142502863437825/1401720516691366078/image.png?ex=68b19a35&is=68b048b5&hm=e43629bcb7d109d34158fa72f729e9e2b3780d19646a98dfa258401ebf055bf4

They had some mean tricks

But were very...Jafar...coded.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/disneyvillains/images/b/bd/Snake_Staff.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/468?cb=20100601152017

[daring hazel]

Neat.

[mighty zephyr]

Temporiss doesn't exist, Viss does exist and is largely the same power set, as a subset of Protean.

[clear delta]

No time powers then

[mighty zephyr]

No, though a lot of that was just Reflavored Celerity tbh

[daring hazel]

What can celerity do in Masquerade?

[mighty zephyr]

A lot of action economy maninpulation

[nimble gale]

Being fair at least they didn't also get the 'turn into a giant snake' power.

[hybrid dock]

As we all know

Turning into a giant snake NEVER helps

[heady kestrel]

But what if I simply stopped turning into a humanoid vampire and returned to my true form which is a giant snake?

[hybrid dock]

Well then that’s fine

That would be pretty useful

Practical even

[nimble gale]

notes down 'setite who was a snake otherkin as a mortal' for the character concept pile

[hybrid dock]

Lol

[high current]

and then they learn about changelings and are devastated that they became an undead snake-person instead

alternatively the Nagah

[nimble gale]

"I could have been a real snake, not a fake snake cultist drug dealer!"

[hybrid dock]

I should read requiem so I can make cute horrifying vampires

[orchid void]

Yes u should

Vampire is built to support toxic yuri

[hybrid dock]

YEAAA

I’m also big on toxic het. Which seems equally plausible based on my understanding

[marble sorrel]

Boo, no Temporis ;-;

[orchid void]

Oh extremely

All the toxicity you can mine out of vitae~

[daring hazel]

I have never read 2nd edition stuff. For Chronicles of Darkness.

[clear delta]

Mummy and geist get fixed up well in 2e

[daring hazel]

Oh nice. Especially geist, I think? I dont know why but I didnt like that book as much

[clear delta]

It was a mess yeah

Geist got tightened up, powers simplified

You now run a religion/revolutionary group connecting living and the dead, abd championing the rights of the dead

Against the oppression of the underworld

[daring hazel]

Oh intrresting. Big changes.

[clear delta]

Wod/cofd game about being a gun with legs, lol

[orchid void]

2e Forsaken is one of my faves, it really wants to hone in one the xenofiction of the werewolfs? Idk how to explain really, but the vibes are generally muuuuch tighter in the 2e core books

[heady kestrel]

@hybrid dock xenofiction ping

[hybrid dock]

Ooo

Okay

Maybe i should read it fr

[daring hazel]

Xenofiction direction makes a lot of srnde.

Like. My impression of Foresaken 1st edition is I just dont see how they have any kind of society.

[hybrid dock]

I do like werewolves

[clear delta]

Werewolf 2e is about being a weird creature that is human but not
You are in society but don't quite fit in
And have a role in the spiritual ecosystem that helps you change society locally

[daring hazel]

That sounds really interesting

[clear delta]

You have have wolf instincts
And you are also are a spirit of wolves abd hunt

You are liminal
Both part of and foreign to worlds

Spirits you can at least be honest about what you are, you are very at home in the spirit world
But spirits may dislike werewolves for reasons and operate on a distinct worldview

[hybrid dock]

That is real fun

Apparently the storyteller is giving me a werewolf friend for the Beast game so
This is all very relevant

[clear delta]

Humans you must keep secret from, except those in your pack
You are different from them, and may even scare them. You have the subtle signs of being a scary creature

And the Hunt is central to your life

The Wolf Must Hunt

You approach many tasks like Hunts

And must participate in a Sacred Hunt with some frequency, for your health

[orchid void]

Werewolf 2e is really fun for seeing the Culture/Cult/Religion that is the Urthura

and how people work with it because the culture/cult is something they've been handed orally from millenia across the world and has. obviously had a lot of offshoots and weird shit happening

Remember. This Story Is True.

[nimble gale]

This is more owod than nwod, so not really uratha-coded, but the conversation brings this to mind

[heady kestrel]

yeah seems accurate

[hybrid dock]

i love that the sabbat pack is dead middle

[velvet sparrow]

It is a terrorist polycule cult!

[worthy sundial]

that should be where hunter cell is too tbh

[nimble gale]

hunter cells don't have to be cults. It's not always religious with them

[marble sorrel]

I know it's not super useful but I do really like grabbing 'eats food' for vompires.

Being able to still enjoy human pleasures like that are great for keeping the sanity.

[rapid glacier]

In V5 you can take it as a thin blood and it’s gotta be an all time flex to say you can go outside and still eat burgers

Well technically it’s two merits but they’re the most fun ones

[marble sorrel]

Also: Man, Animal Ghouls are beefy fuckers.

A Dark Ages Warhorse Ghoul is a real terror.

[rapid glacier]

I’ll fuckin bet

lol that reminds me of one of my Nos NPCs in my Boston game has somehow ghoul’d a whale

He’s the captain of a shipping vessel the Cam uses to move things across the Atlantic

[marble sorrel]

Man, I'd forgotten just how useless this combo discipline is.

What sorta mundane animal is giving you such trouble you need to develop a new technique while having fortitude 4.

The claws you would literally want it to work on (Vampire and Werewolf) get explicit callouts as 'Nope, doesn't work on these ones'.

Did someone mess up their White wolf book collection and accidentily sick a Tyrant Lizard on their Gangrel at some point? XD

[rapid glacier]

Oh I would house rule that in a heartbeat to let it work on anything that isn’t boosted

Like regular Crinos teeth and claws? Yeah it works. Razor Claws? Nope

[marble sorrel]

Yeah, that's my thoughts on what I'd do too. If the werewolf doesn't like that, he can Hit You With A Rock

[rapid glacier]

He could spend his resources instead of getting a free one shot

[marble sorrel]

Yeah. It's just a case of 'in this one, very specific situation, the vampire has a trick that means you need to work around it'. XD

[rapid glacier]

Which means it takes to bites to take the head off still but I mean that’s one more than it usually takes

[marble sorrel]

Fajr (Warhorse Ghoul)
Attributes: Strength 7, Dexterity 2, Stamina 6, Perception 3, Intelligence 2, Wits 2
Abilities: Alertness 3, Athletics 3, Brawl 3, Empathy 2, Intimidation 2
Willpower: 4, Health Levels: OK, OK, -1, -1, -2, -2, -5, Incapacitated
Attack: Trample or kick for eight dice bashing; bite for four dice bashing
Disciplines: Fortitude 1, Protean 1
Blood Pool: 10/10

Kaarina (Domesticated Cat Ghoul)
Attributes: Strength 1, Dexterity 3, Stamina 3, Perception 3, Intelligence 2, Wits 3
Abilities: Alertness 3, Athletics (Climbing) 3, Brawl 2, Intimidation 2, Stealth 4, Empathy 2, Subterfuge 2
Willpower: 3, Health Levels: OK, -1, -2, -5, Incapacitated
Attack: Bite for one die bashing; claw for one die bashing
Disciplines: Celerity 1, Obfuscate 1
Blood Pool: 10/10

Found the stats for Aininur's ghouls. She's only got Animal Ghouls currently but well...animals are subtle.

And while Fajr's not the most agile or the best fighter...dear god a warhorse ghoul will just not stop moving. XD

Stamina 6 + Can soak lethal with stamina due to ghoul + Fortitude 1 + If I know battle is happening, barding for actual armour.

Theoretically animal ghouls are normally only able to learn Fortitude, Celerity and Potence but the GM agreed that if it's something an animal could logically work out how to do, other disciplines are valid.

And protean 1 is just 'see in the dark'

And...well, cats are very good at Being Quiet and Hidden.

[rapid glacier]

I wonder what the ruling on that is in V5, since animal ghouling is an amalgam discipline that’s normally soft restricted to Gangrel

[marble sorrel]

That's funny. It's something anyone can do in oWoD, though the Assamites are actually best at it.

As they've got a sorcery ritual about it.

[rapid glacier]

I mean it helps keep Gangrel unique after the discipline squish

[marble sorrel]

Bull of Heaven. Which allows you to see through the a ghouled animal's eyes for the night/command it telepathically.

[rapid glacier]

I also house rule amalgams only taking up one discipline spot instead of two, that’s a dumb rule imo

So the amalgams are really more ‘prerequisites’

[marble sorrel]

Yeah, v5 has a lot less room for 'I have a heap of unique things' with the discipline squish.

And how it seems like they've basicly entirley killed alternate bloodlines for clans.

Assamites all have the same clan disciplines instead of separate options for Warrior, Sorcerer and Vizier bloodlines etc

[rapid glacier]

That’s what the amalgams are for basically, since the soft locks are mostly just “Need to have this specific clan’s combination of disciplines at these levels” so while it’s not impossible to get them, it’s just a pain

Hecata can get Arms of Ahriman if they scoop enough Potence and find someone willing to teach them, which is probably the hardest part

[marble sorrel]

I'll admit I've not found it that hard in most games to get training in a lot of pretty standard disciplines.

Getting training in blood sorcery? Yeah, that's hard. Getting trained in Potence? Yeah, that's not a Big Favor Ask.

[rapid glacier]

Even Blood Sorcery in V5 isn’t terribly hard to get

You can start with a dot of it if you take certain feeding types

My thin blood in that same Boston game has it and Blood Alchemy, no shenanigans needed

[marble sorrel]

The breaking of the Tremere really affected that, yeah.

[rapid glacier]

Partially that and partially nobody liking the Tremere means people were already trying to steal those secrets

[marble sorrel]

When they still had the 'Tremere are blood bonded to the clan as a whole' and 'were a singular, united group', they maintained their monopoly a lot better. XD

[rapid glacier]

And now, well…lots of empty chantrys just chock full of loot for any Kindred smart enough to get in (or dumb enough to try)

[marble sorrel]

The tremere in my game is getting lessons in Necromany in exchange for Sorcery Lessons but this is dark ages when that was much less 'bad tremere, sun for you' than oWoD modern nights.

[rapid glacier]

I mean they’ve been trying to have the monopoly on vampire magic for millennia that’s just good business for the Tremere

Hell in Dark Ages Is think that was easier to get away with on account you don’t need to worry about your teacher emailing a prince somewhere and getting you turbo murdered

[marble sorrel]

Yep. The GM is big on 'in this era, the clans exist but even the most united of them are not really united'

Like in this game: Mongolian and Polish vampires are not united in vampiredom, they're more about being Mongolian and Polish than Vampires.

[marble sorrel]

Have Kiasyds made any appearance in v5?

I imagine not as Kiasyds are basicly 'I WANT CHANGLING THE DREAMING STUFF TO MATTER IN THIS GAME' as a bloodline.

[rapid glacier]

Not really, unless it’s in Tattered Facade and I don’t have that one yet

[marble sorrel]

Makes sense. Sorta hard to have 'Vampires with Fae Magic' if there isn't a Fae Magic book out yet to work out what Fae Magic can do 😛

[daring hazel]

Whats. The least expected vampire power?

[marble sorrel]

Least expected by whom?

[rapid glacier]

Like least obvious? Probably auspex

[daring hazel]

I guess. If you saw a vampire movie and didnt have all the context what vampire power from either Masquerade or Requiem would be most surprising.

Auspex is definitely on the list.

But also things like odd bloodline powers in requiem.

[rapid glacier]

I bet Oblivion has some weird ones, Visscisitude is also probably a strange one it’s more body horror than typical vampire stuff

[marble sorrel]

I think if you wanted the most 'Okay, I know what this is and it isn't a vampire' I'd look at Serpentis or Bardo.

As if you saw a guy Turning Into A Giant Snake and Summoning Hydras, 'vampire' wouldn't really be on the top of your list.

Meanwhile the guy building an Obelisk so he can do Egyptian Sorcery is likely going to have you go 'I know what we're fighting...A Mummy!'

I am noting down gifts for a Kitsune to pick up, as I'm putting one together for W20 with the 'Kitsune can learn gifts from any other changing breed' advantage.

There are some very fun ones.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284142502863437825/1401693151399383040/image.png?ex=68b2d239&is=68b180b9&hm=587e6f6c7658aea69827d1abaa5742cc7db2e1d76c3de2e00d0f8b334326f2a8

This one is particularly appealing.

Get on Schreknet and start the biggest flamewar

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284142502863437825/1401702729289695262/image.png?ex=68b23265&is=68b0e0e5&hm=75933a0dea6fe1a3100d6694782278b1828e43c9a964742290727e4d2149d809

Hmm...not really better than Silver Bullets or Flaming Arrows but you don't need a weapon on-hand and it's longer range than 'claws'.

[rapid glacier]

That is an insane damage potential

For just a rage point

[marble sorrel]

It's pretty damn good, though 'doing heaps of aggravated damage' is not really a problem for any werecreature. Kitsune Claws/Bites do Str+1+Successes aggravated, though that's also In Melee.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284142502863437825/1401700428504236093/image.png?ex=68b2d900&is=68b18780&hm=a2f7a90ca6a65660eddbd59fff13a97e9b4d6af46b069bc06a4394b08ea04bb8

This just seems fun

Being able to walk anywhere and go 'Oh yeah, i've got a pass for here' is very useful.

[hybrid dock]

Omigosh

[nimble gale]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-who-peter-capaldi-twelve-annoyed-gif-8487135

(tried to find a classic who gif but none popped up quick enough)

[marble sorrel]

...I really don't get the Second Inquisition. Mostly how little they seem to know about Vampires.

They somehow had access to Shreknet, the Vatican and the Society of Leopold and yet they somehow thought Vienna was the 'Vampire Seat of Power'/didn't know about clans.

Presumably this proves that the angels still exist as it's only divine intervention that could let people that dumb do so much.

[mighty zephyr]

Because most vampires don't know that much, Shreknet is a lot of coded messages about daily life, not detailed conversations, and a lot of the higher ups specifically hold their cards close to their chest

[marble sorrel]

I mean, one of the things you pretty much constantly get in WoD is people talking about X clan or Y clan. It feels like the sort of information that would be the first thing to be discovered.

I dunno, it feels like despite winning they kinda lobotomized the hunters in the process. As vampire hunting groups like the vatican and society seemed to know more about vampires before the SI story started than during it.

[rapid glacier]

You’d be surprised

SI also doesn’t tell its grunts proper info on purpose

[vast blaze]

Random question, what's a scary spell a Mage could cast on a vampire

Like, scary for the vampire specifically

[rapid glacier]

And has to sift through legions of garbage info constantly

[nimble gale]

'I have sunlight in my hand'

[rapid glacier]

Yeah that

Alternatively set your blood on fire, teleport you into the ocean

[nimble gale]

Turn the flesh around/through their heart into wood, staking them

[rapid glacier]

Read your email remotely and post your cringe to Reddit, etc etc

[nimble gale]

'Make you hear the dying thoughts of everyone you ever drank to death'

[rapid glacier]

Depends on the mage but I feel like every major sphere can fuck with a lick fairly easily with some creativity

[nimble gale]

(only use on path of humanity vampires)

(path of the beast is probably going to just giggle at that one)

[marble sorrel]

Life has it the hardest due to well...not being alive. XD

[rapid glacier]

No they can just make you rot for a night

Or make you hungry

[marble sorrel]

Not without entropy you won't! (This was the actual rules. Spells cast On The Vampire that are a life effect also need a matching amount of entropy or it won't take)

(You needed Spirit for Werewolves too)

[rapid glacier]

Okay then, make that Lasombra’s next meal Full of Zest for Life instead of depressed, ruining its feed or some shit I dunno

I’m sure someone more familiar with Mage could figure out a way to do it, Mage is basically the most ridiculous product line in terms of powers

[marble sorrel]

Oh, it is, it just also often runs into 'this specific situation needs one more sphere than I currently have. Fuck' XD

[velvet sparrow]

Isn't that only in M20?

[marble sorrel]

Well, it's the most recent mage we have as v5 doesn't have mage yet.

And even outside of that...I'm not super sure what life could have done in most editions to a non-living target.

Like the best use for life magic if you wanna kill a vampire is Superspeed Grow A Branch Through Him, rather than directly affecting the vampire.

And hope he doesn't dodge it

...v5 Mage is gunna be weird to see what they do with it.

As v5 seems to be going more low scale/street level

And mage is...not that. XD

[mighty zephyr]

Yes it was

in Revised

[nimble gale]

Even revised was less street level than most of the other splats, with revised toning things down rather across the board. Once you had your Arete up a bit and if you were half decent at managing paradox you'd still be out doing The Mage Gonzo Adventures (TM). It just started lower and ramped slightly, slightly slower (and made spirit mages unhappy with the avatar storm)

[mighty zephyr]

Also, they do know about this, the grunts don't. The information is largely scattershot and consolidated in the upper eschelons of the hunter orgs.

[marble sorrel]

I do wonder if my favourite groups will make a return in v5 in any future books. I'm leaning 'likely not' but we'll see.

[mighty zephyr]

Which ones are they

[marble sorrel]

True Brujah and Kiasyds. The latter of which I doubt would be sighted until after V5 Changeling sees the light as I imagine they'd want to make 'Fey Vampires' and 'Fey Fey' align in 'the sort of things they can do thematically'.

[mighty zephyr]

I would imagine they wouldn't, the Brujah at least

[marble sorrel]

Which is a pity, as I do love myself some Temporis when it's not just doing the 'True Celerity' stuff (The most boring version of it).

[mighty zephyr]

I don't see how that'd work outside of just a couple celerity powers

[marble sorrel]

Yeah, hence me not thinking it will turn up in v5 despite me loving them.

V5 really doesn't like adding new full disciplines

[mighty zephyr]

Good

[marble sorrel]

But it also doesn't really hook into existing ones super well. Celerity is the closest but even then, a lot of it doesn't really do time stuff the way Celerity does time stuff.

Which is also my concern with the Kiasyds. There isn't really an existing discipline to hook 'Fey Stuff' into.

[mighty zephyr]

I mean Temporis was just Celerity

[marble sorrel]

Temporis is also a lot of non-celerity stuff like Alternate Timelines and Freezing Things In Time etc.

I could maybe see a Celerity + Auspex combo power that is 'Ask the GM the consequences if you did a thing' flavoured as alternate timeline stuff.

[mighty zephyr]

That's already an Auspex power

[marble sorrel]

Kiasyds though I think are just kinda entirely out of luck. You could likely do the version of their discipline that was less interesting/was more about Stealing Memories, maybe? As it's been a couple of things depending on the book. But I imagine whatever version they did get would need to wait until after changeling v5 to try and make the fey vampires feel like they have any link to the sorta mechanical areas fey play in in v5.

[mighty zephyr]

It'd probably just be a loresheet if anything

[marble sorrel]

They did steal one of their big powers already for a loresheet.

The Greatest Trick let you spend a single day in sunlight by working a glamour so convincing that the world itself agreed you couldn't be a vampire.

And there's a loresheet in v5 that lets you spend some time in sunlight at the cost of waking up hangry the next night.

[graceful saffron]

I'm very excited. My VtR party is doing session zero tonight, and its very clear that I get to modify and bring over the idea from VtM of something waking up in the blood.

[hybrid dock]

nice!!!!

[daring hazel]

Oh? Sounds neat

[graceful saffron]

Mhm! We just did our first session zero, and came up with the themes for the campaign.

[graceful saffron]

Modern New York, VtR, the players want to focus on
-the cost of lies
-Betrayed loyalty
-Immortality as blessing/curse
-Fear of the Unknown
-Its still possible to do good.

So I realized I could take the plot from VtM of that antediluvian who is waking up in it's descendants blood, mix that with the Strix,

and make that the background tension.

[rapid glacier]

The Ravnos antediluvian? Cause uhhhh that doesn’t end well for them, or the Ravnos as a whole

[graceful saffron]

Exactly.

I'm going to do a slow burn horror of all the VtR vampires basically becoming Strix slowly as the Vitae mutates inside of them,

as a slowly growing transformation of their body and minds.

[radiant marsh]

HMMMM

I like this

Is this a ticking clock that's affecting all vampires everywhere, all vampires in the general area, some vampires, or are you keeping it vague?

[marble sorrel]

...does anyone know where the stats are in v5 for the power armour/exoskeletons that ESOG units use?

[rapid glacier]

Are you looking for the armor values or the special effects? It might be in the Apostates book for Hunter

[marble sorrel]

The latter. Basicly 'how much difference would it be for an NPC hunter to be In it vs Out Of It in terms of strength/speed'

Alternatively I suppose I could just note down 'Potence 2 (Exoskeleton)' I suppose 😛

I wonder if the Syndicate/Pentex made the power armour. They tend to have a lot of the supertech come from them.

[rapid glacier]

I think the armor is mostly there as like riot armor that doesn’t encumber them and maybe prevents them from being Dominated (that’s how it seemed to work in LA By Night at least)

Also that stuff is pretty rare, you’re going to be running into people like SIGIL or Pentex proper who’ve got that kit to throw around

[marble sorrel]

Curious because literally the two things I've been researching for a game I'm working on are 'Exoskeletons' and 'Vatican Military Unit Structure'. XD

[rapid glacier]

Werewolf calls out Pentex Mech suits and power loaders but even then it’s just a non-healing Crinos with a flamethrower typically

[marble sorrel]

Makes sense as in real life the Hardiman suit was a dramatic failure and even modern ones like the TALOS and HULC failed to meet basic requirements. So it's a weird bit of 'Okay, you're adding some odd supertech here' for the SI to have them. XD

[rapid glacier]

I guess make them as dangerous as they need to be and go from there?

Oh yeah for sure it’s hyper tech

[marble sorrel]

Somewhere there is a giggling Anarch in his looted power armour he stole off some SI guys. XD

Would be very funny/pathetic if Pentex was one of the groups behind the SI/providing them the power armour.

"You guys are doing great at stopping the horrible creatures trying to dominate and corrupt humanity. Just fantastic."

[rapid glacier]

They are

They’re making bank off of it too, their subsidiary companies are kind of puppeteering the various WoD factions in some form or another

I think Pentex is primarily a werewolf antagonist in W5, they’re very background forces in Hunter and Vampire

[marble sorrel]

Makes sense with the much lower 'Splats are directly interacting with each other's metaplots' in v5.

[rapid glacier]

Yeah whatever splats the ‘active’ one is the one whose mythos takes precedence typically

You’re not doing vampire intrigue as a Hunter unless you’re doing it to get more of them in one place to burn down and even then you don’t know specifics, etc etc

At best you get some names and maybe an offhand reference and that’s about it, which is honestly fine all the splats have well defined antagonists already you don’t need to dip into splats too much

[marble sorrel]

snrk
Reading over W20 and the book goes 'So how do you justify a member of one of the various changing breeds being in a place in the world they're not normally from? Well, dipshit: Planes exist and people move homes for many reasons'.

[rapid glacier]

Yeah there are like two different kinds of changing breed outside of Garou in LA in Bloodlines

[marble sorrel]

...I do kinda wish the devs had done a bit more research on Catholicism for the SI. Bits keep taking me out of it with them but that's mostly due to it being one of those things I know about. XD

[rapid glacier]

SI is pretty broad as a group and the Society of St Leopold is kind of like a catholic black ops wet works team, them not being ‘very Catholic’ kinda fits

[marble sorrel]

Oh I'm talking specifically about the Vatican parts of it.

[rapid glacier]

Ah yeah well chalk it up to WoD-isms

[marble sorrel]

Yeah, as some bits of this don't really...line up...theologically or structurally but they clearly wanted the group to exist and worked backwards from that. XD

I think there's also a bit of 'writers are american'

The Vatican is far away and has a bit of mystique to it. While if they'd picked a more American Protestant group it would have been a bit too close to home/day to day.

'And then the FBI teamed up with the Southern Baptist Convention to fight vampires'

...ironically I think the SBC likely has more guns than the Vatican.