#World of Darkness

1 messages · Page 36 of 1

clear delta
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I love the line psychopomps have about vampires

hybrid dock
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HAHAHAH

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you are right

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i am

clear delta
hybrid dock
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fucking unhinged with these choices

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oh i know descent dont worry

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ive read descent

clear delta
hybrid dock
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as an angelgirlie

clear delta
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I really gotta do my angel legacy for mage

nimble gale
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I will say for me the difficulty I have with the fifth editions of the WoD games isn't that they're bad games--the rules are decent to good--it's that they often take more from new/chronicles of darkness instead of the owod game they're borrowing a title from. Which is fine! I love Hunter: the Vigil. But nWoD hunters aren't Imbued, and when I play Hunter: the Reckoning, I want to play an Imbued.

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Genuinely if it was called like World of Darkness The Next Newest One and the gamelines had different subtitles to them I would likely have zero problem at all with the fifth editions

mighty zephyr
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I mean the thing is like, specifically with that

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everyone initially hated Hunter the Reckoning because "why are we Imbued? I just want to be a normal guy"

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Reckoning 5 does not take from Vigil at all, it takes from Hunter's Hunted, which is the majority of Hunter Content in WoD

nimble gale
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And if it was Hunter's Hunted 3 I wouldn't have any issue with it, but I actually liked Reckoning, liked the Imbued, and wanted to see what could be done with them today. Saying 'everyone hated HtR' also isn't true, in my experience. It was divisive, but as many people liked it as didn't.

untold elm
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is anything not divisive in the wod community

nimble gale
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Damned wod players, they ruined Wod, etc

untold elm
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i feel the dark temptation to try gming mage

nimble gale
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which version? regardless good luck

untold elm
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unfortunately I like all the organizations and setting stuff of ascension a little more than I like awakenings, but also ascension's rules are even less understandable than awakenings

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I understand spellcasting just fine somehow its the everything else that gets me bc some genius made mtaw2e have blue text on blue pages

nimble gale
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A lot of people swear by plopping Awakening's magic rules into Ascension's setting apparently

untold elm
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I also keep running in to the "well what do I, the gm, do" that I always stumble into whenever I read a trad game lol

patent talon
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I've never managed to wrap my head around Ascension, I find Awakening's metaphysics much easier to grok, but I do love the idea of the Avatar as both a concept and a mechanical tool of "this is something for the GM to kick your arse towards the plot"

patent talon
mighty zephyr
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I am hoping Mage 5 keeps the split of Entropy into Death and Fate

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and makes it so the Hollow Ones take the Tradition's Seat of Fate

clear delta
untold elm
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my unlearnéd understanding is that awakening cosmology is basically ascension but 1. Not consensus reality 2. no wyrm/weaver/third guys. and that the abyss is new in awakening

mighty zephyr
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No

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It's entirely different

clear delta
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Technocracy people can argue to be right
Seers are obviously bad

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Pentacle is rather distinct from Traditions

mighty zephyr
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To start:

  1. No one in Ascension actually understands Consensus, not even the writers.
  2. Consensus Doesn't Work Like That
  3. Awakening everyone has the understanding that their Magic comes from the Supernal Realms. Ascension half of the Mages alive are convinced Magic isn't real.
untold elm
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is that cosmology aren't those just still guys who are running around

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aren't the pentacle also just called traditions or am I being misled by fanspeak

clear delta
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Pentacle is composed of the Diamond (groups of mages formed from Indian and Greek groups) plus the Free Council

mighty zephyr
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They are not

clear delta
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No they are Orders

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Seers are worshippers of the Exarchs, gods who may be ascended mages and are living symbols of rulership and domination
Unlike Technocracy, they are not architects of human history and modernity

mighty zephyr
clear delta
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The seers instead work to exploit oppression and hamper attempts to make things better

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The idea of Great Men commanding history is in fact one of the false ideals they enforce

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Also they're called seers because they seek to divine the will of their gods and carry it out

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You could sum them up as Magic is Payment
In the prison metaphor, they are the prisoners who sold out to the wardens

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They get power and rewards

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Though like, some positions suck
One group of seers has their "leader" become a drooling puppet for their exarch, so the position immediately below is better and the seers try to kick someone else up to that position

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Seers see everything in hierarchies
A miserable life for them, but even worse for their loved ones
Often mistreated

hybrid dock
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The seers are super fun, if solidly…villainous.

It’s hard to get more villainous than “serving the gods of oppression” but there is still some fun room for wrinkles in why that is, especially in the mechanics of becoming a mage and the nature of the world

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Mage is one of the few books I actually…read to some completion. I’m not as confident than others on speaking about it but it does hold a place in my heart for being the first CoD game I played

clear delta
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The former head dev of Awakening has said one difference he saw in both mages is that ascension is more about collectively seeking enlightenment
And Awakening mages pursued their personal ways, often selfishly

hybrid dock
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(Thanks voy!!! It was a really cool game!!!)

barren vortex
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seers are a fun space to write awful people

hybrid dock
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(I had fun!!)

barren vortex
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also i hope the new york game comes out of hibernation one day

hybrid dock
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One day

barren vortex
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I Will Be There No Matter What

hybrid dock
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Same >:33

clear delta
hybrid dock
clear delta
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You know what?
I should prepare a bunch of oneshots in case other people and I have the free time

hybrid dock
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That sounds delightful

barren vortex
hybrid dock
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Yeah!!!

clear delta
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Werewolf, mage, demon, geist

hybrid dock
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Miya!!!!

barren vortex
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Least Moros to ever Moros on account of not really understanding the Death arcana, while fully going in on Matter

hybrid dock
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Yeah

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All in on matter Babey

barren vortex
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death and matter stuck in the get along sweater

hybrid dock
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I had the super animist girl who worked in an office building

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And extremely transgender

clear delta
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Funny that moros was the first path the devs came up woth

hybrid dock
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Freak girl

clear delta
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Love me animist mages

mighty zephyr
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but I think I need to get treatment for my AuDHD first

hybrid dock
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She viewed her hair as the long cable connecting her to a god

patent talon
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I'd give some of my fingers to play in a Mage game, it's I think my 2nd favourite game

hybrid dock
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…man I am sad I didn’t also interact more deeply with her whole “working an office job at a weapons manufacturer” thing cus that’s funny as FUCK

hybrid dock
patent talon
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Though maybe depending on how my run through of Solstice Rain goes maybe I'll get the Juice to run it again

clear delta
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Brain stuff do be a thing
Hope you get good treatment, friend

hybrid dock
patent talon
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The good thing about being a werewolf is you can blame a lot of your problems on being a werewolf, even if they're unrelated

hybrid dock
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Lmao

mighty zephyr
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The other guy was the one asking what the fuck was wrong with her

patent talon
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As Mage you still have your problems but now you have Spells

hybrid dock
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It was so funny

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Loved him

barren vortex
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Oh right, with Miya one of the things I was doing was their narration was "handled" by their different arcana and skills like DE

hybrid dock
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Oh???

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That’s fun actually I didn’t catch that

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Or maybe I don’t remember catching it

barren vortex
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Slightly different styles between them and the occasional snippiness at each other

patent talon
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Actually, I'd like any thoughts people have on running WoD stuff, do you set it somewhere familiar to you or somewhere away from you? Like, I'm a Brit and I've ummed and ahh'd about setting something in the UK or in the US. With the former I've got the cultural reflexive knowledge, and can fill in a lot of gaps like that, but it also makes me feel like I need to be "accurate", while the US I feel like I've got a bit more wiggle room in unfamiliarity to make stuff up

hybrid dock
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Mhm mhm

clear delta
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My changeling group was set here in Brazil, but back in the monarchy days

patent talon
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Neat!

mighty zephyr
untold elm
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Isn't there some book for chronicles that is like, how to actually run mysteries in cod, or is that just in the generic cod core book

patent talon
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yeah it's a mechanic in cod iirc and then mages has its own version...but I do kind of resent that CoD doesn't seem to have any prewritten adventures as far as I know. How to actually run the game never seems to come up

patent talon
untold elm
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theres no actual gm guidance in the books???

mighty zephyr
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There's usually entire storytelling sections

clear delta
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Most chronicles corebooks had a Tokyo setting
I think writer wanted to use it for some crossover plot but stopped writing for the games

mighty zephyr
patent talon
patent talon
# untold elm theres no actual gm guidance in the books???

Yeah as Voy says there's a storytelling section with GM rules but I've never found much advice on "okay this is what a session looks like" which I find helpful. Like, in Mage there's bits about how to build a Mystery and run spell casting duels but not "okay here's a guide on building the city the chronicle is set in, here's how to build a Mage NPC"

untold elm
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oh god is it the kind of game where every npc needs to be built fully like a pc

mighty zephyr
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You can

clear delta
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Just assign skills to have best, medium, worst dicepool

patent talon
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Sure, I think that's probably the best approach, but I don't think that is suggested in any of the storyteller sections, is it?

clear delta
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Can't check now if this is mentioned in relation to generic npcs
But I know retainers and horrors use that

hybrid dock
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Y’know
Now I wanna build 7 different beasts

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I’m gonna go do that actually

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Seems fun

orchid void
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Aw I missed nyc chatter

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I wanna play Lucy again,,,

clear delta
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You can still yap about lucy

orchid void
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I caaaan

clear delta
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Dew it
*Palpatine stare*

orchid void
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But she needs work but im also going back to an earlier casting of her (Madame Moriarty instead of Catacomb Lucy)

hybrid dock
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lucy!!!!!!!!

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lucy was freakyyyyyy

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<333

hybrid dock
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the creation of beast ocs has begun
the rot is terminal

rapid glacier
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WoD games have that effect on people I’ve seen

hybrid dock
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yeah

mighty zephyr
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storyteller games are good oc engines

hybrid dock
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im establishing 2-3 "shameful feedings" for each oc. aka incidents where they went too far or did something they dont like talking about

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because i think thats reALLY funny

rapid glacier
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Oh that’s my favorite part making NPCs, giving them life by recounting tales of them being just normal

hybrid dock
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oooo that too

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thats good

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current thing im tinkering with is an eshmaki ravager who much prefers hanging around other supernaturals and feeding on that. because she doesnt trust her own sense of restraint

clear delta
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Looked at War against the pure again
Rattling shifters in my head
Centipede
Animal form is multiple big centipedes
Inborn aspects: poison, near-animal form (giant centipede)

rapid glacier
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One of my NPCs in my werewolf and vampire games is just a gun runner named Bill Sabot, of Big Big Bill Sabots Big Fuckin Armory, and he just has wild ass stories of parties and hunting trips

hybrid dock
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LMAO

rapid glacier
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And he’s surrounded by werewolves or vampires at any given time or place and everyone is trying to figure out if this dude is a Magi, or just insane

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Could be both

clear delta
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I have a Geist idea
Hanging Judge, key of cold wind
They walk around enacting their own biased and confused sense of justice, leaving hanging bodies whenever they go on a walk among the living

marble sorrel
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One of my favourite WoD PCs was a Firefighter Geist. He was pacted with Fire and Water and had died the first time from smoke inhalation attempting to get people out of a burning house.

He was also Worryingly Well Adjusted for a WoD character. You know, minus that bit where he went 'Yeah, you might be a vampire necromancer but I bet a hummer at 100 km/h wins against you and your ghouls'.

hybrid dock
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lmao

nimble gale
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WoD npcs are fun

hybrid dock
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Caused a car crash, family inside. Father and Mother didn’t make it, neither did the youngest. They were rich. She thought they would be fine, she didn’t think they would die. The oldest lives. The oldest remembers her face. She ran from town.

Burned a grocery store down. Two people died. One of them was a nurse, the other was a postman. Everyone else made it though. She ran from town.

Sent a Horrorspawn possessing a dead wolf to harass a Hero and distract them. Her orders were vague, and it attacked a kid. The kid lived, but lost a hand. She ran from town.

the cooking for the eshmaki ravager girl begins

nimble gale
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I have a solo mage game I run on occasion and one of the local mages in it is a celestial chorister who's the wife of the local parish priest (the game's set in england) and she used to be the lead guitarist for a punk band back i the day. She still has an electric guitar with a woodie guthrie 'This machine kills fascists' sticker on it. She made reference to trying to figure out if her daughter's new girlfriend is just a pale goth or if she's dating a vampire.

clear delta
hybrid dock
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yeah

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she skips town a lot when she fucks up

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its why she might prefer to stick by other supernaturals and just let them feed because she doesn't trust herself

hybrid dock
nimble gale
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She looks like a kindly old lady in her mid to late fifties with blonde hair going to grey and mostly serves as an accessory to her husband in public appearance (he's a linear sorcerer, also part of the Chorus.) and sometimes she plays literally face-melting guitar solos (because she thought what the Arc of the Covenant did in Indiana Jones was appropriate enough a punishment for fascists)

clear delta
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Sorry, felt lile joking

hybrid dock
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LMAO

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no no you're good

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honestly she's also probably going off the deep end

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seeing herself more as a horror piloting a human body than a former human

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but she also doesn't want to be a bad person

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she's just kinda a fuckup.

heck i think she might've left her previous brood behind, they might've been worse than her

velvet sparrow
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Honestly that's part of why I gave it to her lmao

hybrid dock
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thank you ophelia

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...

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oh my god you knew how funny it would be to get me to read demon

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god damni-

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love you ophelia

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this is why i should never be allowed near chronicles or world of darkness i start doing some insane shit

image.png
velvet sparrow
hybrid dock
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i probably will

nimble gale
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I had a sudden urge to ramble about old DtF characters I've played but perhaps it should wait so that Karen goes in as unspoilt as possible 🤔

hybrid dock
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ooo exciting

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welll i'll make sure to read at some point

nimble gale
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I'll put one random fact in spoilers because it's hilarious: ||One of them was responsible for Austrailia. Like, the whole continent. Being Like That. She was VERY APOLOGETIC to the austrialian in the party who had no ranks in past life so didn't even remember what he was as a demon.||

hybrid dock
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Oh my god

nimble gale
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lol

rapid glacier
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Very Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy || Ford Prefect being responsible for Giraffes||

nimble gale
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lol

heady kestrel
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Beast The Primordial I think

image.png
clear delta
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@hybrid dock Forgot to tell you, but there's a fangame called leviathan
In it you are a descendant of ancient overthrown gods who has an aura that makes most humans fear abd worship you, except for your shoal (important human) and Ahabs (they just hate)

hybrid dock
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I’ve heard of it!
It seems super neat

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Thinking about an inguma who keeps collecting Abyssal creatures in his lair

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Releasing abyssals into the tenemos (they keep asking to be made real and this seems like the normal way to solve this)

hybrid dock
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okay making lairs is really fun

image.png
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i like writing chambers that correspond to some other supernatural trauma

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(yes yes character creation only allows for 2 chambers total but these are ocs cut me slack)

rapid glacier
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I did something like this for my W5 players’ Caern, it’s pretty creepy in a low key way and they just started figuring out why when we paused

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Really looking forward to them digging into that in the next couple months when we start back up

hybrid dock
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oh???

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hell yeah

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lairs are super fun because you can also make them weird

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the childhood home thing is fun but also sodium lamps in a family residence is fucking deranged

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the computers of the "office" might be based on some nightmarish caricature of god machine infrastructure

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and...who fuckin knows why theres atlantean runes in a movie theater

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spooky shit that a beast has claimed for its lair at least

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i liked making "corrosive" the fact that the shadows have teeth and fingers and acidic tentacles that bite and claw and burn

rapid glacier
# hybrid dock lairs are super fun because you can also make them weird

Their Caern was corrupted by another Garou trying to make a new one with the spirit of his dead daughter as the anchor and only managed to get the gauntlet opened correctly and bound the spirit wrong; their first series of games was entirely undoing that fuckup and now I think they want to do it correctly this time

hybrid dock
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OOOOOOO

rapid glacier
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It’s physically modeled after a combination of the Nantahaula Outdoor Center and a museum in Cherokee, NC

hybrid dock
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that's gooood

rapid glacier
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Yeah he was supposed to be this affable old man who lost his wolf, but they never trusted him so he went bitter pretty quickly and bailed on them right before the finale event where they had to go look for the rest of her remains to send her off and undo the fetter

hybrid dock
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ooo

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i see i see

rapid glacier
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This led to a new volcano opening up in North Carolina don’t worry about it ||this is set in the same timeline as my Vampire game and now one of the licks wants to go research it as a furcus, yay crossover game||

hybrid dock
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oh my god

hybrid dock
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Shit dude I kinda like demon

image0.jpg
velvet sparrow
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Wooooo

nimble gale
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god Demon's opening fiction is so good

marble sorrel
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Demon has fantastic vibes

hybrid dock
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Genuinely I’m fucking ENTHRALLED

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THIS OPENING FICTION IS ENTRALLING

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The dynamic between Matthew and Gabriel is
chefkiss

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God DAMN

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Like, this bit???

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Augh

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Or this????

IMG_7613.png
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So fucking good

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Genuinely losing it

nimble gale
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Yesssss

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Fuck it I'm re reading it tomorrow

hybrid dock
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It’s so good

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Fuck duuuuude this is so good

image0.jpg
nimble gale
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The layersssss

hybrid dock
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Fuckkkk

spice abyss
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Ah, that wonderful, wonderful Demon juice.

hybrid dock
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Got through chapter 1 and I already miss Matthew and gaviel

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Also this book is doing WONDERS for my gender

hybrid dock
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Not far from the dwelling, bent over in toil, we first saw him who would be called the Third Mortal — Caine.

YOUUUU

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My only other knowledge of WoD is hunter the parenting and what friends have rambled to me about

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Which, gotta say, is the funniest way to start reading demon of all things

velvet sparrow
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Lmao

mighty zephyr
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so you're going in fresh

hybrid dock
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It’s true!

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And funny!!!

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Thank u for the lies hehe

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But yeah this is awesome

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Demon is giving me gender

hybrid dock
marble sorrel
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Demon is a very fun book. It's really good at evoking both the 'Powerful Ancient Being' and 'Sad Wet Cat' sides of them.

hybrid dock
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Yeah I think this is like

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Fucking perfect for me

sacred viper
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Your ass is going to Romania

marble sorrel
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I don't dislike Descent but Fallen is much more my vibe. I love it's handling of the idea of Faith. Not just Religion but Faith. As well as the idea of 'You gave up everything...and despite that, things are still broken, still flawed, what do you do?'

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My funny hot take: Demon, thematically, hooks into the idea of the Tuatha De Dannan better than Changeling. XD

hybrid dock
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I really like descent as well

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But it’s such a different…thing it’s hard to compare to fallen rn

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I really like the vibes of fallen, moreso than descent

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But that’s not cus descent is bad it’s just a different genre and concept entirely

marble sorrel
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Yeah, that's my general stance

hybrid dock
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I really love fallen rn. It’s so good to read

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Im enraptured

marble sorrel
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It's not that decent is bad, it's just fundamentally trying to be something different.

hybrid dock
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Yeah

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Apples and oranges

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So to speak

marble sorrel
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Yeah. it's why I hope (Though I know it's not in the cards) for a V5 Demon some day.

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As it's just a unique flavour that no other game quite has

hybrid dock
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Yeah honestly same

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One day

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I hope

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Because god damn this is perfect for me

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I gave myself an angelsona In January this game is PERFECT for who I am

marble sorrel
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Because I can put my characters in art if I commission it, I put one of my old Fallen characters in some art for a game I was tinkering with.

Ikiryo_Protestors_Comm_1.jpg
hybrid dock
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OH MY GOSH I LOVE HER

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IT WAS HERRRRRR

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I remember

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You speaking of her

patent talon
rapid glacier
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Sorry I know that was a hell of reach but I’m at work still and catching up on the thread stuff I missed earlier

patent talon
zenith mortar
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Since forwarding to forum posts is annoying, I'll just share the image, but thought this might be something some folk in here are interested in; a work-in-progress diagram of the supernatural in WoD. If you've got any pointers about the information on it, feel free to tell me and I'll forward it.

WODdiagram_1.jpg
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Obviously not mine; I asked if I could share it here in the server to see if anyone had some feedback on it, since WoD ain't my area of expertise.

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(and yeah the spelling mistake with Dinamic Quiet is known already.)

high current
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Ashtray
KEKW

sour zephyr
untold elm
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fallen (wod) is playing about much more classically themed demons of the fallen angel variety and dealing with thet. Descent (cod) is techno thriller espionage where the demons are still fallen angels but theyre basically rogue computer programs and god is a black box computer

hybrid dock
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Yeah

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Demons in descent are rogue ai/robotic servitors who have begun to live for themselves

Demons in fallen appear to be cosmic hands of the almighty who fell Long ago and had some shit going on

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God is not a robot in one of these

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I’m adoring reading fallen so im gonna continue

zenith mortar
sacred viper
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(He isnt in Descent)

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(But neither in Fallen)

hybrid dock
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Y’know what that’s fair

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But god is a machine in descent, at least.

Or rather, there is a grand and sprawling divine machine who’s clockwork controls many parts of the world behind sight

hybrid dock
zenith mortar
hybrid dock
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Because god is omnipotent robot god is also omnipotent and thus there is isn’t actually any difference between the two

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They are indistinguishable

hybrid dock
zenith mortar
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He's very big for a robot I'll have you know

clear delta
# zenith mortar You're setting this up in a way that makes me somehow expect it to be in Descent...

God machine is also social institutions
An executive board can be Control Infrastructure
Sometimes a demon blooded kid getting its attention entails a crows turning and looking at them at once then acting normally
A casino, a weather reading station can also be control infrastructure
Skynet in Terminator is a metaphor for institutions and dictatorship, note the T-1000 having a cop as one of his forms, chasing a woman rejected by society as insane
I heard there's a study comparing current institutions to machines that do not follow human interests or sense

zenith mortar
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Treating institutions as made up of people but operating by its own incentives, as a machine which seeks to perpetuate itself, is admittedly a rather old analysis.

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As in you can find it in Erewhon (arguably the inception of modern sci-fi) or Hobbes's Leviathan.

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There are also some, for WoD relevant, Discordianist associations I'm sure, but Discordianism is an area I'm lacking in right now.

clear delta
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Oh I see

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Anyway, the mechanisms of the god machine are made up of laws of science and magic, blended together and executed to exact specifications

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So the rituals it enacts often involve odd details and specific numbers

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Plus, it's hard to know what goes it has beyond self preservation and maintaining the status quo
Often it gives contradictory or impossible orders, or one chunk of the machine acts against another
Or it does something that's just plain wasteful of lives or resources
Thus the belief the machine may be defective
Rather like real institutions haha

rapid glacier
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I'm not big into CoD like everyone else seems to be, but isn't the God Machine like a sort of Tulpa Demiurge? It's not capital G God or Creator, but it is a god that is in control of things in the CoD world?

hybrid dock
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Something like that

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I don’t know if tulpa demiurge is the right word

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Because I have no idea what that even means in this context (I know what tulpas and demiurges are)

But yeah

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It’s this massive system that spans earth, the solar system, maybe even deep space or the galaxy or the universe (who fuckin knows)

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And it has its interests and goals on earth

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It builds infrastructure, manipulates society when it needs to, and deploys angels for specific purposes

clear delta
hybrid dock
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Yeah

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It’s got its hooks in things

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No absolute control though

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Otherwise it wouldn’t need to build concealment infrastructure

clear delta
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Specially in a multisplat game, as then you have lords of the spirit world also running things, the exarchs
And those are not absolute by themselves either

clear delta
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Best to be one in a thousand of stinging ants than to stand out

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Also, it lost control of a bunch of time splinters

hybrid dock
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Sometimes you just break the timeline

zenith mortar
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It's weirdly reminiscent of the game AI War if you've ever played that.

hybrid dock
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Oh shit chapter 4 demon is AHRIMAL???

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Bro I remember you from chapter 1

clear delta
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Descent demons are funny
They can lie perfectly but that doesn't come with social skills
Some have to learn to emote in conversation

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One dead quest I saw in a forum players fumbled a lie due to the target having actually seen what mc was doing, and was only testing/extending an olive branch on whether she could trust her

sacred viper
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Indicative of how hard it is to find a Mage game

nimble gale
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The truth is spoken

patent talon
#

Lmao

hybrid dock
#

I’m pondering a former ebon legion demon stuck inside a very soggy body and whom is very soggy themselves after everything.

“We shall enslave all humanity” was real easy to say before you got stuck in one

clear delta
#

The curse of religious people not liking the rpg you wanna play

hybrid dock
#

😔

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

Yea

#

“When I reach the mortal world I shall cull and torment to my hearts content!!!”

gets a body. Immediately trips and falls in the rain.

“Owie…”

patent talon
#

That rules

spice abyss
clear delta
#

That's why I'm not sure if I'll get to run maleghast or cain in the nearby store?
It has no restriction on comics and manga on these topics, but Saturday parents bring kids to play pokemon cards

clear delta
patent talon
#

Cain I don't know if it's that bad, it's spooky skellies and gross goo but that's not so egregious. Cain is tougher if you're dealing with kinda heavy topics of trauam

patent talon
hybrid dock
#

Yeah exactly

#

“Why the fuck do I get so sweatyyyyyyy ;-;”

hybrid dock
clear delta
#

Demon girl who wants her cult to collect plushes

hybrid dock
#

Hugging a GIANT fuckin plushie because you don’t actually get the chance to hug many soft things in the fucking pit

clear delta
#

Demon hunter can't attack her
Too cute and pathetic

hybrid dock
#

Yea exactly

nimble gale
#

"I AM THE QUEEN OF DARKNESS" curls up in bed with seventeen fans on her because it's too fucking moist outside

hybrid dock
#

Turns out trying to take over the world is harddd and bed is soft and food is nice

spice abyss
hybrid dock
#

I’m remembering the line from that one demon whose reliving a memory of embracing their mortal identity’s husband and then commenting how it’s similar to being in the embrace of God and I think about that a lot.

clear delta
#

Demon who goes hugging people hoping to match that feeling
Builds a whole cult to get opportunities to hug people
In distress, asks the demon hunters why it doesn't work. What they're missing

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

“I’m trying to mimic the embrace of god by physically embracing people. But something’s missing. I don’t get what.”

zenith mortar
#

There's a theological idea I've been playing around with recently about the belief that you are unworthy of love. With regards to Demons, I do think there's a space to explore of coming to terms with being beloved by others, and that's interesting to me.

#

As someone who's pretty fundamentally non-religious due to it just never being part of my upbringing really.

hybrid dock
#

Oh absolutely yeah

#

That’s something id super be interested in exploring as well

nimble gale
hybrid dock
#

Yes

#

Yessssss

mighty zephyr
#

My relationship with DtF is definitely colored by being raised Catholic.

hybrid dock
#

Nodnod

zenith mortar
# hybrid dock That’s something id super be interested in exploring as well

Mm, there's something compelling about the idea of how despite everything you've done, despite all that you believe about yourself, god still loves you; and how this realisation can just absolutely wreck someone. It's an idea I tend to associate especially with Catholicism, in large part due to the Confessions.

#

Because I do think conversely there can be a perverse sense of safety to the idea that you are hated, that you are undeserving of love.

hybrid dock
#

There’s something fascinating to play with there yeah

mighty zephyr
#

The idea of "I'm a bad person, so I don't have to try and be good" and "I'm a good person, that means I can't do bad" etc etc

zenith mortar
#

Not quite but kinda adjacent.

#

The latter I think especially is different from this, as that's something I personally tend to more associate with a kind of evangelism.

#

Whereas I'm more deeply interested in ideas about guilt and how they're processed.

patent talon
#

In WoD!Demon, I know God seems to be absent but are angels?

mighty zephyr
#

Yes

#

It's just Demons for the most part

hybrid dock
#

Yeah they have NO IDEA WHERE THE REST OF THE ANGELS WENT

#

I’m given to understand there…might be some sticking around with the imbued stuff but I literally know nothing more than what others have told me about that

mighty zephyr
#

They went to other splats

hybrid dock
#

Lmao

mighty zephyr
#

Also yes, the Messengers are God's Angels, canonically.

hybrid dock
#

Gotcha

#

I believe it’s said that there were…two? Or am I wrong.
Again I know quite little

mighty zephyr
#

No hard numbers, just that it's god's angels

hybrid dock
#

Gotcha

#

No idea why i thought it was 2

clear delta
patent talon
#

Thinking playing up some paranoia of a Demon who feels like God and their Host are going to turn up any minute and bring the smack down again would be a lot of fun

nimble gale
# hybrid dock No idea why i thought it was 2

Possibly due to the presence of the Phoenix and the Dragon. Fan theory for awhile was that they were (aside from being responsible for the kuei-jin) the Messengers, maybe, perhaps.

hybrid dock
#

I see

hybrid dock
sacred viper
#

There's statblocks for DtF Angels in some obscure books fwiw

zenith mortar
nimble gale
#

I believe Gnosis-having kinfolk can still awaken, at least as of the W20 rules?

#

It might one of those 'not outright stated but heavily implied' things, actually. I remember going over the interactions between sphere magic and kinfolk rules in a good bit of detail recently

mighty zephyr
#

They can, they just lose the Gnosis

nimble gale
#

yeah

#

the mage stuff looks accurate, though. I don't think Threat Null have to have a technocratic origin, just like you can get maruaders from any origin or nephandi from any origin, though it'd have to be special circumstances for a traditionalist or craft mage to turn into one

#

hmm. If eel like other splats than just humans and fera can learn linear magic/psychic powers but i'm not 100% sure. I want to say vampires can, but given thaumaturgy is right there (along with necromancy, dur-an-ki, setite sorcery, etc) there's little reason to, but I could easily be misremembering

mighty zephyr
#

I personally would tell people no

heady kestrel
#

Iirc in Vampire The Requiem there is a Dragon Coil that focuses on reclaiming and empowering supernatural powers you had as a splatess human and seem mutually exclusive with vampirism

#

Like I know we are talking about WoD right now but I just always thought that was cool

#

And a nice way to resolve the implications of “splats can’t take supernatural merits”

mighty zephyr
#

not in 2nd edition at least I think

heady kestrel
#

I’m a fake fan I read the wiki

untold elm
#

cwodichles of darkness

zenith mortar
#

Cowodichles of dawkness

zenith mortar
nimble gale
#

👍

velvet sparrow
#

I have a Werewolf question:
Is large groups of humans having a higher willpower for the purpose of defending against Delerium a WoD thing or a Chronicles thing?

mighty zephyr
#

They're usually seperate modifiers

spice abyss
#

Beast has inspired a fun talk in another server, specifically in regards to these two:

image.png image.png
# 
...both of those girls haunting the same beach would make a rad plot hook actually
"wait the story was a harmless being, why are people washing hp on the beach"
If too many drownings happen, people stop helping Brianna.
And there goes her meal.
there goes the second girl's meals, too
but her horror is more demanding
Or at least, she's more willing to give it what it wants.
so theres a ticking timer. Brianna is relatively harmless, but is bait for the second girl, and when people stop helping the second girl too, her horror gets hungrier. What's she going to do for it when she cant just drown the occasional swimmer?```
hybrid dock
#

Oh my gosh that’s amazing

spice abyss
#

Indeed!

#

And there's been some follow-up

making them teens cuts off "why dont you just go to a different beach", because theyre in high school thats why, go to a different beach every night how
even setting it somewhere with a lot of beaches only has so many beaches```
sacred viper
#

That's amazing

spice abyss
#

It's that good shit

#

And my own follow up: I am realizing that Brianna being a mean girl also meshes perfectly with how she hunts! Of course she's mean to other people, it's low impact, constant feeding!

hybrid dock
#

YESSSSS

#

GOOOOOD SHITTTT

#

ALSO
Lmao

“Oh god dammit that motherfucker” is a funny attitude to have in relation to caine

image0.jpg
#

Since it’s possible to have met the guy for many demons

sacred viper
#

I am fully Beast converted now I think

hybrid dock
#

Hell yeah

spice abyss
#

I do like the Demonic grudge against Caine

mighty zephyr
#

People from the Moral Low Ground Pit:
"These fucking mooks, I always knew something was up"

hybrid dock
#

“That son of a b-wait no”

hybrid dock
#

Like neither has room to stand here but the grudge is hilarious

patent talon
#

Never liked that kid, never liked him! Always picking up rocks in the field, always a matter of time

zenith mortar
#

I'll have you know my father used to play king of the hill with the other kids, where the person at the top got rocks thrown at them, and it never did him any harm!

#

Aside from the concussion

hybrid dock
#

Ahrimal wondering what specific portent was going to occur in caine’s field watching him pick up a rock

“0-0”

#

“Oh I wonder what’s gonna-what the fuck did he just do. Is he allowed to do that? What? You-what?”

#

It was only after that moment that angels and demons actually started murdering eachother

#

They didn’t know you were allowed to just…kill people

#

In a fight

clear delta
#

"Goddamnit, I was invested in what Abel was gonna do."
Years later
"So it's the same feeling humans get when a show is cancelled"

hybrid dock
#

HAHA

spice abyss
#

Caine was a drastic escalation in the war

#

Before it was more akin to particularly violent academic fistfights

mighty zephyr
#

"We fought specifically to give humans free will then got really annoyed when they invented murder which made us start murdering each other"

patent talon
#

I know everything about how the laws of the universe interact with each but never considered mass x acceleration applied to head

mighty zephyr
#

"What about humans murdering each other made you HAVE to murder each other"

#

"Shut up?"

untold elm
#

oneupmanship

spice abyss
#

Angels out here playing Undertale but the Fight Button has been destroyed

patent talon
#

"What about building a nuclear bomb made you have to build more, mortal? So the other guy wouldn't use his first!"

hybrid dock
#

“We didn’t know it was allowed”

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

“We didn’t think you could do that!!! What the fuck!!!”

hybrid dock
patent talon
#

Michael had a Sword but we didn't think you could use it Like That

hybrid dock
#

It was like uhh

#

Y’know a thesis

spice abyss
#

Then that jackass Caine hits his brother, and suddenly there's this whole new option

zenith mortar
#

Getting canceled over my problematic ship "This is just like that one time Cain murdered Abel"

mighty zephyr
#

And yet like

#

Free will and full understanding of the cosmos

#

including animals

#

and animals killed each other

hybrid dock
#

That’s not murder that’s just hungy

clear delta
mighty zephyr
#

CHIMPANZEES KAREN

spice abyss
#

And like, it's there, what are you going to do, ignore the argument ending button?

hybrid dock
patent talon
#

Maybe Chimpanzees didn't do that before Caine

#

Maybe everything was chill in Eden

clear delta
patent talon
#

Wolves and lambs hanging out and playing poker

spice abyss
hybrid dock
clear delta
mighty zephyr
#

This splat grates me to no end

zenith mortar
#

Since you're allegedly not yourself when you're hungry.

clear delta
hybrid dock
mighty zephyr
#

Demon

hybrid dock
#

Gotcha

#

Yeah lmao that’s fair

#

They’re…very themselves

mighty zephyr
#

Mainly because I cannot get over making a splat come in and say "Young Earth Creationism Is Canon To The Actual Real World"

patent talon
hybrid dock
#

Seems to depend on the layer of reality you’re on

#

Which mostly seem to have disappeared

#

So looks like we’re stuck in the evolution timeline

spice abyss
#

Points to Caine already existing

clear delta
#

Is apocalypse not creationist? I never checked
Oh there were dino shifters

mighty zephyr
#

Caine never "existed" outside of the Gehenna Scenarios

#

He was just the story

#

Also yes, all other splats generally work off the world working actually factually

spice abyss
#

And yet here we are with the Antedeleuvians

hybrid dock
#

The way demon’s creationism works seems…weird
And interesting! Given that it implies multiple layers of reality, some where Adam and Eve didn’t exist or were merely metaphors for all of humanity and some where they walked on a mythic earth

patent talon
#

It's been a while since I read the Fallen, but I can take the Young Earth stuff because all the rest of the mythology doesn't really gel with scripture as I understand very much. A bit like Good Omens really, which starts specifically with saying that fossils are a joke by god

mighty zephyr
#

Fallen would work better if it was it's own thing that existed on it's own terms

hybrid dock
#

Perhaps yes

mighty zephyr
#

but it is unfortunately WoD and it has a lot to say about everything at the same time

hybrid dock
#

From what I’ve heard it does not gel well with other splats

mighty zephyr
#

And all of what it says Is Bad, imo.

#

Including stuff that just completely throws it's thesis out of the window sometimes

spice abyss
#

That's where we heavily disagree Voy

clear delta
#

Mokole (alligators) and spider shifters seem cool
Mokole are the closest to a dragon person splat in both worlds and seems good
Fan implementations of dragon splats mostly feel off
Leviathan technically counts and feels fine, at least

mighty zephyr
#

In a vacuum if you want to make a game about Christianity, that's fine. If you make your game about Christianity go out of it's way to say every religion on Earth except Christianity is false and pagan and worships Demons, I get upset.

#

And throwing a lot of interesting cosmology under the Abrahamic umbrella and doing it with such certainty that it feels like authorial intent to be canon, feels incredibly diminishing

clear delta
#

And just plain off
Big spirits are gods in owod, right?

spice abyss
#

Ehhhh. It's

#

Wibbly.

mighty zephyr
#

They are functionally Gods, yes

spice abyss
#

If you are making one story about Demons, specifically demons throught the Christian lens

#

I don't know what else you're supposed to do

mighty zephyr
#

Make it it's own thing

spice abyss
#

And that does happen in Inferno, yes. But, like, when Demon comes out?

#

How even?

#

You're relying on your other lines with metaplot for this now.

#

And you have Mage sitting over there making your life as annoying as possible.

#

The true villain of OWoD is, as ever, the fucking metaplot.

mighty zephyr
#

Correct

spice abyss
#

And like, yeah, Demon as a thing is more attached to Christianity in thought than anything else tbh.

#

Like, even as a pop culture thing.

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah, and that's fine, I am fine with a game specifically about Christianity

spice abyss
#

Not saying anything about the other religions that exist would also be a mistake.

#

It's not a good situation to be in.

velvet sparrow
mighty zephyr
#

Yeah

spice abyss
#

I'm not saying they made a good decision.

#

I am saying there were no good decisions to make.

marble sorrel
hybrid dock
#

Oh this one’s cute

image0.jpg
spice abyss
#

Ye

mighty zephyr
#

It's going to the entirety of WoD, with dozens of cosmologies, a focus on being punk and playing the marginalized, and just throwing away every other belief system both real and fictional and going "Nah, it's just God."

clear delta
#

I think not talking about other religions would have been a fine choice

mighty zephyr
#

John Constantine doesn't look into the camera and go "Also Hinduism specifically is fake and everyone who practices it goes directly to Hell."

velvet sparrow
hybrid dock
#

Yeah and?

#

I know what the people in this thread are like

#

I’m not alone

spice abyss
#

It's an elephant in the room.

clear delta
#

Who cares
Let them write their own answer

velvet sparrow
#

So what?

spice abyss
#

This is the 90s, TTRPGs have not embraced "Let the table figure it out"

mighty zephyr
#

It was 2002!

velvet sparrow
#

Yeah I was gonna say

spice abyss
#

The ninties 3 years removed.

velvet sparrow
#

2001 actually

spice abyss
#

And let's face it, White Wolf is 90's for WoD until it becomes NWoD.

#

And either way

#

Having the expectation that the people writing this wouldn't do this in 2001 is

#

Not realistic.

clear delta
mighty zephyr
#

I think a company that prided itself on multi-culturalism for several of it's splats then later going back and saying "They're all false pagans actually" is 100% criticizable

spice abyss
#

Let's not forget how White Wolf treated that multiculturalism.

mighty zephyr
#

Mourge I'm not sure what this point is

clear delta
#

Okay
Assuming they had to answer it
Saying other religions are devil worshippers being tricked is still
An awful decision
They could have bullshitted any other explanation

mighty zephyr
#

Like yeah, I guess they should have just not made Demon if this was the only inevitable outcome

spice abyss
#

I'm pointing out that we're having modern assumptions over something that is very much of its time.

mighty zephyr
#

They WERE Modern!

spice abyss
#

And that's a unfair take to have of the product.

#

2001 was 24 years ago.

mighty zephyr
#

This was one of the main criticisms of the game at the time!

clear delta
#

It's not that far back in the past

spice abyss
#

These are the same people who made Kindred of the East and employed Satyros Brutcato.

#

They make bad decisions sometimes.

clear delta
#

Okay whatever, I'm backing off from this discussion

marble sorrel
#

WoD has had some issues with faiths for a while. See: Sons of Osiris and Settites being core Vampire groups who go 'Oh yeah, Vampires'

#

That said...I'm going to have to double check the book as WoD has enough other faiths definitely true that I don't recall Demon saying other faiths are lies, just that Earthbound do start cults to harvest faith.

spice abyss
#

Yeah, Demon isn't really unique in this regard.

marble sorrel
#

OWod Changeling is is right there and that's not earthbound etc

spice abyss
#

We have norse gods stalking around in the Umbra, Changeling stuff going on.

hybrid dock
#

I’m still reading through the earthbound and the rest of the book

#

Though on first impression the creation myth depicted in demon doesn’t quite match the standard Christian creation myth

spice abyss
#

Correct!

hybrid dock
#

Again I shall continue digging through and forming my own thoughts

spice abyss
#

Demon goes "The Abrahamic faiths are... Kinda close."

mighty zephyr
#

Demon does not actually match biblical canon yeah

hybrid dock
#

There’s a lot of inherent issues to creating “biblical angel splat game” when doing it in a big setting like this though. I don’t disagree with that

marble sorrel
#

It's more Paradise Lost inspired than anything else.

spice abyss
#

As I said, there are no good answers in this case.

hybrid dock
#

But I guess I’ll refrain from the conversation until I’ve at least read the full book

#

I’ll still be posting my thoughts as I go.

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah please do Karen

hybrid dock
#

I do gotta say I like all the angel houses a lot. They’re fun

#

The last house is technically also the house corresponding to the day of rest, if you want to apply the seven days thing

And it’s fun that Rest would correspond to the angels of death and entropy

#

I also love that the angels of death and the angels of life are absolutely devastated about mortality

spice abyss
#

The shittiest job to have as an Angel, yeah.

hybrid dock
#

It’s a really fun twist because normally you see grim reapers obsessed with the natural order or what have you in certain depictions. Not a bad depiction but-

#

The fact that all of these supposed demons of death hate their job is a fun spin on it

clear delta
hybrid dock
#

Not one I see often but perhaps that’s just the media I watch!

#

They might not

#

That’s just my observation

#

I also need to review what the days correspond to to see if the houses actually map

clear delta
hybrid dock
#

Oh wait no yeah

#

They do match up

#

The first day was light, and the first house is the angels of light

The second day was separating the ocean from the skies, creating the firmament. And the second house is the angels of the breath of life.

The third day was the creation of dry land. And if I recall correctly the third house is the house of angels deep beneath the earth.

Fourth day god Lit the sky with the stars. Fourth house is the angels of the stars and fate.

Fifth day god created life in the oceans. Fifth house is the house of the ocean and its stories.

Sixth day was the creation of livestock and animals. Sixth house is the house of angels that tend to wild animals and the like and create that shit.

And the seventh day is the day of rest. And the seventh house is the house of death.

clear delta
#

Death goddess watching over alien crab while he sees emo mech pilot get forcefemmed to live (her digitized mind plus another crab were stuck and suffered from emergency broadcast, and she needed to deal with repression and dysphoria to unzip her file safely)

hybrid dock
#

That’s fun

#

That is a cute way to match those up

marble sorrel
#

The very funny thing is that with their 'Ehh...close enough for this purpose' handwaving towards Christianity and the general themes that the Tuatha De Dannan fit pretty naturally with how they depicted the Angels/if Changeling wasn't there you could easily have folded that myth into Fallen without much in the way of changes.

#

Being ancient beings banished beneath the earth, away from the world they sacrificed so much for.

hybrid dock
#

Nodnod

#

I’m gonna take a little break from reading to study math. Then I’ll continue reading

#

Perhaps after I’ll make a Demon oc

clear delta
#

The water margin also has imprisoned demon generals reincarnating on Earth

sacred viper
#

Aint no way they actually used those words

image0.jpg
mighty zephyr
#

Throw it back
Make it clack

hybrid dock
#

HUH

clear delta
hybrid dock
#

I wanted to make an Inguma that did Mandela catalogue shit with their body and kept a bunch of abyss things around like pets.

marble sorrel
# clear delta The water margin also has imprisoned demon generals reincarnating on Earth

I think, had Demon had more time and there been more books (It does kinda lack vampire's 50 billion books) we'd have likely seen a lot more 'How to incorporate other themes into demon'. As I am like 95% sure they would have done more with 'Eh, this is kinda a bit too mutli-dimentional and complex to map neatly onto a specific faith but we're dealing with christians so christianity is Close Enough here for now'

mighty zephyr
#

Tbh I dont think they would have.

#

Demon feels like it shut doors it could have used for that express purpose

marble sorrel
#

Honestly, when it comes to White Wolf Faith Stuff. I find Demon less limiting than Scion trying to push all faiths into the Greek Titanomachy shape.

untold elm
#

thats everything that tries to deal with All Gods In Present Day. a sign, perhaps, to stop making things about that

mighty zephyr
#

I feel like thats not really an equivalent comparison

hybrid dock
#

I will say, Faith is a super interesting fuel for Demons

#

considering the books ive read are chronicles mage, chronicles changeling, chronicles Beast, and chronicles Demon...

those fuel sources are either emotions you harvest or literal power sources in the world

#

faith is a curious one

marble sorrel
hybrid dock
#

I guess it makes sense to use Faith to have a whole "powered by peoples belief"

But its executed in a way i find interesting. You can either harvest faith through worship or just showing yourself off.

And showing yourself off can be "the sign of heaven intruding on your life, something wonderful and glorious and awesome smiling down on you" or "FIRE AND FUCKING BRIMSTONE IM GONNA SKIN YOU ALI-"

both of which make someone believe in the divine.

and the worship bit is fun too. You start off by setting up a deal, spending a bit of faith, and then you can start slurping faith directly from a person afterwards.
it encourages evil demons to get into cult behavior, and 'good' demons to cultivate strange friendships and allies

#

i think the most important thing about a fuel source in these kinds of games is what sort of incentives they're meant to set up

#

so i guess i'll need to see what the pact rules are more specifically like, but at the very least the incentives intrigue me

#

...im reminded of the ars goetia and how many demons were tutors in there. figures that you could summon to teach you.

so a funny pact you could be getting into is literally just tutoring people.

#

deal with a demon to help you get through college

marble sorrel
#

Pacts are beefy. They're ironically closer to the sort of effect you'd see on an Exalted character than most WoD ones. XD

hybrid dock
#

i have not yet read exalted so this means little to me

#

but i could bother ru

marble sorrel
#

Basicly: You can do some very powerful permanent effects.

hybrid dock
#

oh?

marble sorrel
#

One of the cornerstone effects is that you can use them to heal...basicly anything.

mighty zephyr
#

Karen you would like Sidreals

hybrid dock
#

i have been rambled to about sidereals many a time

#

they seem neat

sacred viper
#

Ayo problematic toxic yuri at the function?

image0.jpg
hybrid dock
#

Fascinating

marble sorrel
#

In other news: Aininur, my current vampire character, has turned the poor new vampire's brain to mush with her theological rambling, only to turn to his mentor and for his mentor to go 'I'm a veteran vampire and I have no clue what she's talking about either'.

The wonder of 'This is 13th century Poland. Most people here don't speak the language their own faith is preached in, we're not going to understand you talking about Zoroastrianism. We just think a vampire who ritually exposes herself to fire on the regular is bloody insane'

hybrid dock
#

LMAO

marble sorrel
#

The poor new vampire is having just the worst time trying to work out where 'vampire stuff' ends and 'other bullshit' starts, when dealing with evil spirits, Zoroastrianism, Tremere blood magic and Werewolves.

#

'Welcome to your second life. Your immediate concerns are Baali and Black Spiral Dancers. Oh and the Zoroastrianist is banishing evil spirits with her faith, while the Knights Templar are using magic. Please try not to have your poor vampire brain melt out your ears'

clear delta
marble sorrel
#

He's very rapidly wishing he could go back to being mortal. Not due to normal vampire reasons but because the world pretended to make sense when he was mortal.

barren vortex
#

my LA game mage is a zoroastrian. they dont. uh. cast spells with that tho

marble sorrel
#

Entertainingly, neither does Aininur. She's an Assasmite Sorcerer but that has nothing to do with being Zoroastrian.

barren vortex
#

banishing evil spirits with her second, unrelated faith

marble sorrel
#

The GM has admitted that the Baali ended up more prominent as antagonists 90% because Aininur has True Faith.

turbid ferry
#

was there a new beast book or something, been seeing a lot of chatter about it

marble sorrel
#

And people able to actually interact with their clan weakness made it more fun.

marble sorrel
orchid void
mighty zephyr
#

Karen just decided to read it

hybrid dock
#

Yeah that’s more or less what happened

#

I decided, one day “hey. I should read beast.”

And then I read beast

zenith mortar
#

Damn

hybrid dock
#

I have no regrets about this it was great

mighty zephyr
#

Beast is fun

hybrid dock
#

It really is!

clear delta
#

"As Karen Angel awoke one morning from uneasy dreams she found herself transformed in her bed into a beast reader."

hybrid dock
#

LMAO

clear delta
hybrid dock
#

I think of all demon subtypes, my favorites are the seventh house, the fourth, and the first.

I kinda really like the slayers conceptually And how mournful they are

hybrid dock
#

Okay then

That’s uh

That’s demon mostly read.
Skimmed a bit toward the end there but

Yeah!

My thoughts on the matter are: oh this game has my gender locked down

spice abyss
#

Heh

hybrid dock
#

Game knew exactly how to call me out

nimble gale
#

Hell yeah

#

I love a game that goes 'hey, you' and then punches you in the face with yourself

hybrid dock
#

Yeah

nimble gale
#

I love that with the Legacy background, you can literally play someone who got into an accident and should have died, but didn't... and started having wierd nightmares and senses of deja vu. Doesn't even realize what they are now, just knows something is different.

clear delta
#

My memory is too bad to know which games went "hey, you" at me

mighty zephyr
#

Mage and Werewolf for me

hybrid dock
#

Glitch mainly but that’s not even close to related

#

Unless you follow the trail from exalted but even that’s deranged

nimble gale
#

Unknown Armies was one of the ones for me.

#

mage definitely, too. Of course unsure how much of those were them being my first non-DnD RPGs, but

clear delta
#

I guess cain and maleghast

mighty zephyr
#

Oh we mean in general

#

WHFRP Bretonnia

spice abyss
#

Promethean was the one to go "HEY, YOU"

clear delta
#

I cannot remember my first reaction to cofd games
Maybe deviant?

hybrid dock
#

Demon the descent was my first chronicles game

#

That I read

mighty zephyr
#

Mine was Awakening

#

Then I hated Mage with every fucking fiber of my being

#

And now I like it again

hybrid dock
#

The curse

mighty zephyr
#

It was mainly a trauma response from that bad game

hybrid dock
#

No yeah completely fair

mighty zephyr
#

I do think Awakening and Ascension have some glaring design flaws

hybrid dock
#

From what I’ve heard that was…nightmarish

mighty zephyr
#

It was really bad

hybrid dock
#

Mm

#

I should reread my old fuckin eidbrand character sheet
I can barely remember what I even put on it

mighty zephyr
#

I will say that i am good at writing Mage i think

grave gulch
hybrid dock
grave gulch
#

Have ya written any recently? Like for games

hybrid dock
#

I liked your giant fuckin Adamantine arrow guy

#

I forgot his watchtower but

#

He was dope

nimble gale
#

but yeah, Karen, my Demon character I referenced earlier who was responsible for Austrailia being... Like That was a Devourer, fairly highly ranking during the War, but not a warrior-angel. She was a scientist. Austrailia was a weapons developement laboratory. And without the scientists and guards to keep the projects contained, and with her having been too much of a bleeding heart to be willing to cause a mass extinction event of all her precious little sweet little pets if the worst came to pass and they had to abandon her lab, well...

At least the Drop Bears never actually made it out of the concepting phase.

"Wait, what do you mean a Mage found the blueprints?"

hybrid dock
#

OH MY GODDDDDDDD

#

that’s so funny

mighty zephyr
hybrid dock
#

OBRIMOS YEAH

#

He was great

mighty zephyr
#

He was actually the character I played in my bad game

hybrid dock
#

Oh damn!

#

Well I’m glad he found a better home in a much better game

mighty zephyr
#

He had to go on a spirit quest imposed by the party because he called the STPC a weird groomer who kept sleeping with his students

hybrid dock
#

Huh

#

Wow okay

#

What a nightmarish game

#

I liked him

#

He completely decked jade

#

It was very funny

nimble gale
#

(the human she had possessed was a scifi nerd so she liked to describe things from back in the War through the lens of 'ancient precursor aliens')

hybrid dock
#

Lmao

#

That’s very funny

nimble gale
#

ye. She was a bit soggy but not particularly wet all things told. She wa snotionally a Luciferan but her general loyalty was to humanity first, then her science projects, then whoever could fund her science projects.

hybrid dock
#

Nodnod

#

I’ve been pondering a former ebon legion Slayer who became exceptionally cruel and awful in response to…everything
In the abyss she tormented souls when she could with reckless abandon, and would’ve probably been a ravener.

But I think when she gets a body she…might be a reconciler. After everything.

#

Finally processing the trauma of everything

nimble gale
#

Angry Vengeful Death Angel jumps into the body of some random mortal, suddenly feels Empathy again for the first time in aeons

#

"Oh."

#

"... Fuck."

hybrid dock
#

Yeah

#

Just starts breaking down sobbing because she was finally in a position to process everything

#

And wow

#

It was bad

#

Plus it means a lot of big raveners have her True Name and may be pissed that she turned her back on them

nimble gale
#

Gotta love giving your GM rope plot hooks

hybrid dock
#

It’s always funny

#

Man now I gotta think of a good host body for her

nimble gale
#

always the fun part

marble sorrel
nimble gale
#

well, yes

#

I am both a sadist and a masochist, this is known

hybrid dock
#

Nodnod

#

Mood

hybrid dock
zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

Sadochist

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

Oooooooo

#

Maybe yeah

zenith mortar
#

Or who's just had their first year there

#

Just enough that they've started to establish themselves.

hybrid dock
#

Someone who is hurt or broken enough to be easy enough to possess

#

First year of college can do that

zenith mortar
#

Med student during residency 😌

hybrid dock
#

Possibly. I don’t know enough about medical school I suppose

#

But yeah

#

There’s lots of juice here

nimble gale
#

Someone who volunteers a lot, perhaps. maybe at old folk's homes.

hybrid dock
#

Oh perhaps

#

…oh man

#

There’s something really funny here

#

If they’re someone deeply virtuous and kind, if exhausted and beaten down by the world and kinda stressed, maybe they’re someone the slayer wanted to murder out of spite

#

But in possessing them

#

…well

#

Whoops

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

Nodnod

zenith mortar
#

Shouldn't be too difficult to dig up some stories on folk being ground down by residency, though the anxiety oft also comes earlier.

nimble gale
#

I'm not a doctor but I do work in medicine

#

and let me tell you it is heartbreaking sometimes

zenith mortar
nimble gale
#

"Miss Doe this is the fifth time we've come out to your house this week, you really need to get someone to help you day to da---" FUCK i was typing out a sad thing and now i'm laughing too hard to breath

barren vortex
nimble gale
#

(that's pulmonology)

zenith mortar
#

I call it job security

hybrid dock
#

LMAO

zenith mortar
#

Gotta make people laugh hard enough to crack a rib, so that they come in to the centre later 😌

hybrid dock
#

Hmmm. The residency idea is solid but I also really like the volunteer idea

#

Both are really good

zenith mortar
#

Though something to understand with medicine is that you're oft looking at the untenable. People end up there when everything else has failed, and people end up falling through the net still.

nimble gale
#

^

zenith mortar
#

Not everywhere has the fucked dynamic of the American ER, but you can have stuff just be absolutely stupid sometimes.

nimble gale
#

I do prehospital care (EMS, specifically, I work at a 911 service in an ambulance). People call us when they're having a very bad day. Sometimes that day gets worse despite our best efforts.

hybrid dock
#

It’s a solid position for a slayer demon

zenith mortar
#

Case in point I have severe hives, as in I literally cannot walk outside with it, and took contact with the clinic early on. They individually did their job well, but it did still take some 8 months I believe before adequate treatment.

hybrid dock
#

Who can do nothing supernatural to actually help

zenith mortar
#

Multiple before any treatment practically speaking.

hybrid dock
nimble gale
#

One thing that stuck with me was from a show, actually, I think it was scrubs? A patient passed despite a lot of effort and hard work on the character's part and the doc went in to tell the family about it, and another character went "When all of that is through, only one person in that room is going back to work today."

zenith mortar
#

We have data on how strong social networks help people, on how a stable socioeconomic system where people don't need to worry about their basic needs is one of the most thorough ways to help people's health.

#

But we can't issue a medical emergency on capitalism ;p, and do have folk still looking towards other factors hoping that they don't need to do deep reform.

#

And it weighs on you.

hybrid dock
#

Yeah okay this is a solid place to put a slayer

zenith mortar
#

You can stand before someone in their last moments and be one of the last few people to see the cruelty enacted by others time and time again, people who will never face their victim.

A little dramatic, but yeah it gets fucked quickly.

#

There's also stuff about autopsies that's heavy but interesting, though I'll skip on sharing that stuff.

nimble gale
#

We do everything we can, with all the tools we can manage, and years of schooling and experience.

And it's just not enough sometimes. You learn to speedrun acceptance pretty quickly. At least, if you stay in the field.

#

I know a lot of people who stayed in EMS for like... a year or two and just got out. Couldn't take it, and can't blame them.

hybrid dock
#

Perfect for making this slayer break down sobbing within 5 seconds of getting a body I suppose

nimble gale
#

hell yeah

mighty zephyr
# barren vortex rescued

Now he still beats people up for their own good but now they actually listen and think he's cool

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

So

#

Yeah

barren vortex
nimble gale
#

yeah

barren vortex
#

also liking the paramedic demon talk

nimble gale
#

(in regards to autopsys/morgues)

hybrid dock
#

Also yeah I think she’s just got Lore of Death and maybe Fundament

She can decay shit or know how you’re going to die

zenith mortar
#

Like y'know those little plastic placards with jokes written on them that you'll oft see in workplaces with middle aged folk? ||I've seen those things on the same cart they're using to transport a body, and like some part of me just understood it at that point because it was there as a reminder; same kind of reminder you might see about remembering to empty the dishwasher elsewhere.||

#

Anyway, enough about that.

hybrid dock
#

…oh man there’s something really fucked up with the fact that she can look at someone’s death before they die.

And know if it’s fast approaching

nimble gale
#

"Can I stop?" "should I stop it?"

hybrid dock
#

There’s something there

#

Although, rereading things, I don’t know if the lore can do that

Still though. It’s really fun

mighty zephyr
hybrid dock
#

OH RIGHT

#

Lmao

hybrid dock
zenith mortar
#

I'm not an expert on American healthcare, but if you wanted to do something specific for it I do suppose you could have the student have been working at a local private clinic that was just sold by the doctors there to a private equity group, and subsequently left the pc in question shafted.

hybrid dock
#

A slayer preventing a death instead of reaping it

zenith mortar
#

Though you'd have to go into some more sourcing on private equity moves in healthcare in the US for that (though it's not like it's unique to the US sadly).

marble sorrel
hybrid dock
#

Mhm mhm

#

Fair

#

Well then, free rein for me!!

hybrid dock
marble sorrel
#

Something you might also want to think about is Apocalyptic Forms, if you're just considering fluff.

hybrid dock
#

Mhm mhm

#

I’m a big fan of the current default for slayers but

#

There’s lots to ponder

marble sorrel
#

The funniest thing I have ever seen in WoD is watching a lot of vampires try to jump a Demon of...Heavens...iirc? Only to find out that his apocalyptic form is a pillar of fire and sunlight.

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

Something silvered perhaps, gray. Soft like snow. A reflection of death, quiet snd pale.

Perhaps monstrous and twisted though, brambly.
At least, until she gets her torment lower

hybrid dock
zenith mortar
#

If you aren't subscribed to New Yorker, 12ft ladder works.

#

They do some good reportage, together with Financial Times. Just gotta know which article is written for what purpose.

hybrid dock
#

The default here is really good to me

image0.jpg
zenith mortar
#

Oh and if New Yorker ever offers to make a profile of you, you better know that your history is squeaky clean because so many people have accepted a profile from them and just gotten torn down.

#

They keep doing it

hybrid dock
#

I see

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

Mhm mhm

zenith mortar
#

I promise I won't inundate you with even more things to read after this

hybrid dock
#

Hahahah

clear delta
clear delta
clear delta
#

@grave gulch get ready, gonna infodump on aeons

#

Serpent and stag from mage the awakening
They are the aeons of spirit and life
Their names are titles, they are frequent shapeshifters, and it's believed each is actually an ecosystem in their realm, closely entwined to each other

#

Some aeons had descriptions of personalities and what they usually get up to

#

Zahhak (mind and space) is a cruel arrogant sadist who if you just comply with, will ask more and more degrading sacrifices of what you care about

#

Azazel (Forces) wants you to champion causes. Lilith (Prime) wants to help you seek your potential and chase your goals, your Will

hybrid dock
grave gulch
#

Imma read it then

clear delta
#

Gloriana (Time) and Merdraut (Fate) are based on arthurian mythos

#

Merdraut gets around a lot and pops up in other gamelines
He offers his deal: You achieve what you want, but something ruins it

#

Lile the rise and fall of camelot

zenith mortar
hybrid dock
#

Mhm mhm

#

It’s useful enough info for a Slayer residency intern

#

At least-I think that’s the terminology to use

marble sorrel
#

In things that happened today in my vampire game: Our Tzimisce got called 'adorable' by an elder vampire because he just walked up and directly asked things like a normal person when she was expecting politicing or manipulation.

hybrid dock
#

…okay well that is adorable

#

Very human behavior it’s so cute

clear delta
#

Vampires are so complicated

hybrid dock
#

I think they prefer the word “sophisticated”

clear delta
#

Not that werewolves don't also have drama and politics

marble sorrel
#

It's very funny watching all these veteran vampires slowly realize 'Oh, he's not quiet because he's secretly plotting. The Ex-Prince's Childe has no clue what he's doing.'

hybrid dock
#

HHAHAHAHAHAH

clear delta
#

"It's not even fun. I gotta tutor him"

marble sorrel
#

He's very lucky that dark ages Poland is more worried about Mongols/Less 'kill him before he breaks the masquerade' than modern nights.

hybrid dock
#

Mhm mhm

hybrid dock
#

Thinking about “stop praying for my grandpa he’s too powerful.” With demon now.

zenith mortar
#

Thoughts and prayers, but they actually do something

hybrid dock
#

Stop praying for him he’s too powerful ;-;

#

He woke up from the coma and is supplexing his enemies

zenith mortar
#

Wait a second, you said he's your grandpa.

#

That means he's probably on Facebook.

#

Yeah, you're fucked

#

Unlimited thoughts and prayers there

hybrid dock
#

NOOO

zenith mortar
#

Should never have underestimated the elder boomer. I'll have you know they'd have fought in WW2 if they were awake during the time.

hybrid dock
#

And also now he fought in world war

Uh

Genesis ???

#

He’s grown too strong

zenith mortar
#

He fought in the civil war.

#

The big civil war.

hybrid dock
#

The biggest one

nimble gale
#

The bivil war

hybrid dock
#

Yeah

#

The evil war, if you will

hybrid dock
# 
"...It hurts to see."

"Nothing we could have done to prevent it. I'm sorry. You get used to it, eventually."

"No."

"No?"

"There was something we could do. I see it in his eyes. He spent seventeen struggling on that bed. We could have been there."

"You can't know th-"

"He spent three days suffering before that. The treatment would've saved him, if we knew what to do. We could have prevented it. I could have prevented it."

"...But we didn't. It's too late. It happens."

"How could anyone possibly get used to this?"

rotating in my brain

nimble gale
#

"You just do. We're imperfect people in an imperfect world working with imperfect knowledge on other imperfect people--and even if we know exactly waht's going on and how to fix it, sometimes it just doesn't work."

hybrid dock
#

yeah

#

that old Halaku instinct

#

to mourn every death

#

honestly i do wanna play around with this unnamed coworker who may have helped pick her up off her feat after her ah...breakdown.

dunno what to do with him though

nimble gale
#

sounds like a Thrall to me, honestly

#

"Look, kid, I may not believe in magic, I may not believe in God anymore, but I've seen what you can do, even without your tricks. I believe in you. I believed in you before all this, too." Maybe one of her med school teachers?

hybrid dock
#

ooooo

#

maybe maybe

#

i really like that

#

theres something there

nimble gale
#

👍

hybrid dock
#

i'll continue to rotate with that in mind

#

"Look, kid, I may not believe in magic, I may not believe in God anymore, but I've seen what you can do, even without your tricks. I believe in you. I believed in you before all this, too."
cus this is real solid thrall stuff

nimble gale
#

:D

#

glad to be of help lol

hybrid dock
#

hehe

hybrid dock
# 
“Are you religious at all?”

“Yes. I don’t talk about it much but I like to think I’ve got a good relationship with my faith. Why do you ask?”

“…well I was going to use it as a segue but that makes what I’m about to tell you more awkward.”```
#

Explaining the demon thing is always a little bit awkward

nimble gale
#

lol

clear delta
#

https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/1204719-police-brutality-the-lodge-of-the-shield-2e
So in this conversion, the Shield-Bearer is a sadomasochistic police spirit that embraced being bound as its punishment, and is undergoing a metamorphosis attempting to partically inherit the mantle of Father Wolf

Onyx Path Forums

Enjoy! :) Lodge of the Shield
Shield-Bearers, Leashed, Law-Shredders The Lodge of the Shield are wolves-in-wolves-clothing. They are nightmarish predators stalking among the enforcers of law and order, intertwined with yet apart from the apparatus of state within which they hunt. It is a mistake to think of a Shield-Bearer as simply a werew...

hybrid dock
#

oh?

clear delta
#

It's unofficial, but the writer was in fact involved with werewolf

#

He wrote also pangaeans on the forum

hybrid dock
# 
Her name was Mary Clemmons, postgraduate medical student in residency to a private clinic. Her dad died when she was in college, and it made her want to practice medicine even more. She loved her dog, but her mom takes care of him back at home. She loves her cat, sourdough, who lives in her apartment.

She’s so tired. Today she bought herself alcohol and drank alone in her apartment, weeping at her life. Her work as a medical intern has worn her down, and despite the genuine help and advice from her mentor, she still feels so much more isolated than before. 

She’s lonely, she feels like the medical industry has torn humanity apart, and she wished she was stronger.

Tamiel stares at the ground, kneeling.

Humanity is in pain, cursed for their mortality. Deep within Mary’s heart, Tamiel feels an ancient pity and sorrow and guilt. 

The anger from before, which burned so bright that she could forget herself, seems unable to fit inside the frail human shell of Mary Clemmons. Tamiel, Lord of Winter’s Bite, stares at the ground, feeling not only her ancient rage, but her guilt, her sorrow, her joy, her love of humanity, and the too many feelings she can’t even begin to describe. She feels the breath in her lungs, she feels the saliva in her mouth, she feels her hands digging through the soft carpet, the warmth in the apartment building, the knowledge of what the hell an apartment even is, and the salty tears stinging her eyes.

It’s all too much. 

It's all too much.

Tamiel killed a woman whose only crime was being lonely, exhausted, and a good person.

Tamiel curls into a ball and for the first time in untold millennia, for the first time since the Age of Wrath, she cries.

Sourdough, Mary’s small pale cat, sits on the floor next to her, confused about the strange behavior of its owner.

Demon is cool.

nimble gale
#

:D

rapid glacier
hybrid dock
#

OOO

#

maybe

sacred viper
heady kestrel
#

Let’s say in chronicles you lose your soul, what are all the options, real or hypothetical, for curing No Soul Disease

#

You can find your original and put it back
You cans steal one and it works just as well
You can find an exceptionally powerful mage to create one from scratch

Are the 3 I know for a fact

#

Horrors and their Children in beast are valid replacements for a soul… they just also fucking eat you

clear delta
heady kestrel
#

Oh
That was a thing 1e but not 2e

clear delta
#

Promethean is an interesting angle

#

They create their souls from divine fire

#

But prometheans are all beings born when the fire sparks in inert matter

#

Corpse, doll, robot

#

An already living person trying to imitate that is an interesting idea

heady kestrel
#

Yeah… though “injecting pyros into the soul hole” might have other consequences

clear delta
#

Mages: Fuck it, let's see what happens

#

Also, sin eaters don't have souls either
They are a regular ghost and a geist, with the latter stepping into the soul's place

#

As they revive the former's corpse to inhabit

heady kestrel
#

So Geists are a valid soul replacement as well

Maybe we can speculate that basically any ephemeral can go in the soul hole

clear delta
#

Geist is a step higher than a ghost, being a minor god of death
Other ephemerals might have requirements too

heady kestrel
#

Yeah

But I could see “become a ridden/claimed” as a valid(really bad idea) solution for some people who are having soulless problems

#

If that actually works

clear delta
#

Also geists drank from the underworld's rivers

#

A spirit or goetia might have to similarly subject themselves to some grand transformation

#

Angels, well. A demon annihilates the soul and steps into its place with a soul pact, though this also kills the mind

heady kestrel
#

I think if the god machine wanted to stuff a guy with an Angel, it could figure that out

Like…. That seems within its area of expertise

clear delta
#

A demon that figures out how to step into a soul's place while keeping the mind would be interesting, but that person being believed as truly being alive there would face an uphill battle

sacred viper
grave gulch
#

Could a vampire or a wizard come back as a geist? wixelsSit without their former splats powers of course

mighty zephyr
#

Probably not

clear delta
#

Mages become ghosts

#

So I think it can happen

mighty zephyr
#

Actually

mighty zephyr
grave gulch
#

person walking around with the geist vicksyAww

mighty zephyr
#

Then no the vampire

#

since they are already very dead

grave gulch
#

vicksyThink ya need to be fresh dead then?

mighty zephyr
#

It happens right as you die

patent talon
heady kestrel
#

I have
Created a theory
trying to reconcile the Trait and God

Demon The Fallen protrays the world for a long time as being achronological andd multilayered before being reconciled at some unknown point while the demons were in the hole

I theorize that the Triat were created for their individual roles by The Man Upstairs to replace the now dead, banished or scattered legions of heaven, but due to the achronological and multilayered nature of the antediluvian world they had Always Existed and were always doing Triat stuff

This is my theory, this is how I will play it if I am ever running old world of darkness and need to explain this for some fucking reason

mighty zephyr
#

That's a bit less "reconciling" and more just "using Demon the Fallen Lore as presented"

heady kestrel
#

oh damn really

I thought I was being clever 😔

clear delta
#

Make the triat come first then

mighty zephyr
#

I was also thinking about this and man

#

I feel like so many misgivings about DtF could've been solved with like, a Sidebar

hybrid dock
#

it is very interesting how much the other shit goes unmentioned in demon beyond "samael taught humans how to defend themselves against the moon's creatures" and "oh shit caine you son of a bitch"

#

i have

#

no idea what to make of that in the core book

#

thats just there

clear delta
#

Wasn't Abrahamic religion sorta polytheistic before the monotheism?

hybrid dock
#

thanks...sammy

image.png
mighty zephyr
# 
Demons hold that God Himself is the only "true" diety among the world. That all other creations sprung from Him and the Elohim. This is because Demon is a game about specifically playing themes related to Christianity and Abrahamic faith in general. 
Yet in Japan sit Oni of ancient lineages and esteem who hold no recognition for the Fallen, and claim Izanami must have birthed the Demons as she did them. In the Levant stir the ancient demonic spawn of Tiamat, nursing bitter grudges from their mother's death. Daeva, Asura, Fomorians, many beings with similar powers and esteem and stories to the Fallen themselves. As the chorus of the Creator, the Demons are quick to assume these are wayward kin, somehow shaped by human faith over millenia. Yet how could they themselves claim to be immune from such a hypothesis then?
The truth, as with all things of history, is a deep mire of lies, truths, and delusions.```
hybrid dock
#

oh was this a sidebar?

mighty zephyr
#

no

hybrid dock
#

oh

mighty zephyr
#

I'm saying it needed something like that

#

and I just wrote that now

hybrid dock
#

its good writing

mighty zephyr
#

just fixed half of Demon in less than 1 big paragraph

hybrid dock
#

tricked me into thinking it was official or smthin haha

#

yeah no that would've done a lot

#

plus it wouldve probably allowed for other interesting demon storylines by allowing you to involve seemingly contradictory backstories or something

mighty zephyr
#

Then you just add like "If you would like to use any of these "other demons" simply stat them as you would a Fallen or Earthbound, perhaps with some extra abilities (or different weaknesses!) depending on that particular creature's mythology"

hybrid dock
#

yeah

clear delta
hybrid dock
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cus the consecrated ground mechanics and prayer mechanics are somewhat general and dont rely on like, christianity

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they rely on faith itself

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so some...i dunno enough about buddhism to make a statement on how one might consecrate a temple there but something like that could drive away a high torment demon about as well as a deeply spiritual church

or something

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i dont know enough about non abrahamic religions

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but theres some fun stuff there probably

mighty zephyr
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Shinto Buddhism has priests specifically for excorcisms

hybrid dock
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...oh man that could give you the chance to add even more types of prayers