#World of Darkness

1 messages · Page 33 of 1

midnight grotto
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u shud

chilly vault
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Dracula?

grave gulch
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the long haired fellow

clear delta
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I bet Big D has beefed with Dracula or a wannabe

high current
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assuming he has the Emperor's origin of being from Anatolia(modern Turkey), it's certainly the right area for him to have run into Dracula during his heyday
but we also dont know if D is also some form of immortal or anything so vvShrug

midnight grotto
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I like the theory that D is much older-looking than we see him

high current
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(obv Anatolia and Transylvania were different places, but they're close enough that one could feasibly between them without much issue)

midnight grotto
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The 99p staff seemed to think he was on death's door and it might be part of why Kitten was so shocked by that marketable plushie

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We're seeing him through the eyes of his family, who are all kinda mesmerized by him

radiant marsh
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He’s healthy enough at least to be able to take enough ketamine to knock out a vampire drinking his blood while also showing no outward effects

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So there’s definitely something going on

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Also apparently immune to Delerium

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So my guess is he’s imbued

nimble gale
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Big D is a Changeling. Wilder seeming, Clurichaun kith, Paladin and Ringleader legacies, House Fiona.

velvet sparrow
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I kind of like the theory that he's a Mummy, even if it does have a few holes

I also am holding out some hope that he's just, some Weird Other Thing

I like it when there's Weird Other Things in WoD

grave gulch
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I like the possibily of Big D meaning Big Duck

spice abyss
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I am a fan of Big D is a Demon myself

clear delta
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The big sticking point seems to be his long life and health
He could totally have used some potent magical object or have been enhanced by a supernatural creature

mighty zephyr
nimble gale
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honestly my favorite crackpot theory is that he's a Bystander.

velvet sparrow
nimble gale
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he's an earthbound. Big D's not the man. Big D's the jacket.

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which is also sometimes a bathrobe.

clear delta
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Big D is good at getting information

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Also, how does reproduction work for Fallen? Is there anything off about the kids

high current
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mechanically, they get the Laham merit and are required to take the Echoes flaw at 3 dots(4 in Dark Ages/Dark Fantastic), so yes there's something off about the kids

grave gulch
hallow idol
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Big D more like Big DORK

marble sorrel
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Oh and my Vomp has learned a Fun Fact about the Werewoof who wants her dead. Well two of them.

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  1. He never fully healed from the encounter with her as a human. He's still got a messed up voice from when he swallowed her silver necklace because she was shoving it in a scary monster's face.
  2. The other werewolves still give him shit about managing to go vampire hunting and get fucked up by a random mortal who wasn't even working for the vampire.
high current
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renegade con tomorrow, got an email titled 'new world of darkness reveals tomorrow'
gonna be huffing the copium and hoping for a MtAs 5e announcement

clear delta
mighty zephyr
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The edition war

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is going to be bloody

grave gulch
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Let us all huff copium

patent talon
high current
high current
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announcements from Renegade Con so far:
Hunter: Incognito Report
Werewolf: The Moonlit Path
Vampire: Tattered Facade

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Incognito Report is mostly an enemy book, but has new edges and perks
Moonlit Path is about spirits, has some new gifts and rites
Tattered Facade is about horror, the masquerade, and spooky shit in general, lots of new discipline powers and also the Ghul and THE BAALI rooPogISee

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no mage news but also i learned from chat about this:
https://www.enworld.org/threads/jason-carl-on-white-wolfs-return-mage-the-ascension-plans.713655/

EN World D&D & Tabletop RPG News & Reviews
Jason Carl on White Wolf's Return, Mage: The Ascension Plans

Earlier this month, Paradox Interactive announced that it was rebranding its World of Darkness group to White Wolf, with further plans to build out the group and shift much of its development efforts in-house. This came with several big questions, including what was to come of the relationship...

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I think it's no secret that we have ambitions to get our new team working on Mage: The Ascension as quickly as possible. We realize that our audience would really like to see some Mage from us as quickly as possible, and we intend to deliver that.

But two other games that are occupying a lot of our brain space right now are changing the dreaming and what that might look like today. Obviously, Changeling: The Dreaming is near and dear to the hearts of many people in our community. The way the world has changed will definitely affect the game and thinking about what they will be like in the world of now occupies a fair amount of our imaginative cycles.

And the third one that we're really looking very closely at is actually the Dark Ages line, the dark medieval game that was particularly near and dear to my heart. It's one of my favorite expressions of World of Darkness and especially Vampire: The Masquerade. I definitely think it's time for a fresh look at the dark medieval world and what it can teach us about the world we live in today, how the struggles of the creatures and the people living in those time periods are related to what the world is going through now. And frankly, it's just a lot of fun to play Vampire with a sword in hand.

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so, Mage, Changeling, Dark Ages

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soon™️

mighty zephyr
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Umbra book hell yeah

dawn wigeon
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Making a changeling for a lost 2e game!

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Anyone have any favorite ways for getting abducted by the fae? Im cooking a backstory

vast blaze
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Can't go wrong with a good ol fairy circle

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Could also say they got Monkey's Pawed

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"God I wish I wasn't at work, this fucking sucks"

"Wish granted! Welcome to the realm of the fae~"

"WHAT THE FUCK"

nimble gale
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it was a changeling 1e game but I had a character get lost in the jungles of vietnam and end up falling into arcadia, so the old 'got lost in the Deep Woods' is always fun to me

marble sorrel
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I miss Changeling 1e.

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Like I know it wasn't everyone's cup of tea

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And the abuse metaphor works well for 2e.

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But Changeline 1e had a very interesting vibe to it

fair tapir
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For some urban options: little shop that wasn't there yesterday, streets and alleys that should be familiar but keep turning you around, a crowd of strangers pressing in on all sides (they're too tall, you can't see their faces. Do they have faces?)

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Or just an evil circus

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Are there any specific beats you want to hit to fit your backstory?

nimble gale
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I should specify my comment was ctl 1e

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changeling the dreaming is also a fun game, though

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very different from nwod changeling, but very fun in it's own way

mighty zephyr
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My changeling made a deal with a strange man to help a client of his "for a moment of his time"

dawn wigeon
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My changeling character was taken by a really immature fae with an overactive imagination, so she spent half of her life in arcadia as a toy on a shelf and the other half animated as a dragon for his heroic dragonslaying fantasies. Half experiencing constant suffocation and isolation and half suffering being a monster that dies at the end of the story. And eventually that fae got bored and forgot her in the hedge, she didn't even properly escape she was just abandoned.

fair tapir
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Slapstick option: you were playing a claw machine, and your prize got stuck. Reaching your arm inside to dislodge the toy, you were pulled in instead :p

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Oh, visiting a castle gives you a lot of great opportunities to get feynapped. Mysterious doors, hedge mazes...

marble sorrel
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'A fey got addicted to gacha and you see...one thing led to another and here I am'

nimble gale
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"awh man i got another minroll"

clear delta
latent bough
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Hehehe >83

clear delta
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Get chihuahua'd

dawn wigeon
fair tapir
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Hell yeah! What'd you do?

fair tapir
clear delta
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CLaw machines are perfect little symbols of wonder. Fae twisting it is on point

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And shows why true fae suck

dawn wigeon
latent bough
fair tapir
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😌

mighty zephyr
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You felt your bones bend and distort as you were pulled through a space far too small to ever accommodate you.

latent bough
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I've been listening to a lot of Sleep Token

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It's so good for Changeling

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"Whenever you appear, you leave me with that grace, I am trembling with fear"

mighty zephyr
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https://bsky.app/profile/voytheboy.bsky.social/post/3lr2t7dlowc2g

Voy (@voytheboy.bsky.social)

My favorite part is when we found this out it was one of these Phonk Compiliations of this little fat spider with "SPEED: SWEEP" "STRENGTH: SWEEP" and shit like that and it's like someone doing a fancam of Rohm the Vacuous Spider.

Alfabusa (@alfabusa.bsky.social)
This is the funniest shit to me.
There’s a community who delve into the DBZ-style power levels of settings, and World of Darkness is a VERY popular pick for the universe with highest power-level, due to deities like the Weaver. But, it misses the point of WoD so hard one can’t help but ADORE it.

Bluesky ·
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We're talking about Weaver Power Scaling

velvet sparrow
velvet sparrow
heady kestrel
mighty zephyr
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I KNEW IT

heady kestrel
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Five More Nights from JT Music

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Recognize it beecause I am that type of motherfucker

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not my fav fnaf song from that channel, its very 2016

marble sorrel
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Man, the path to get there is full of many bad powers but dear god in W20 Assasmites are terrifying to mages.

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With the rank 5 of their 'sword magic' path being 'Supernatural effects can't impede your sword'.

nimble gale
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powerscalers are hilarious, I find they often miss the point and also like, the xeelee sequence exists

marble sorrel
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I do wish Assasmite Sword Magic was better ont he first few dots as it's just cool, conceptually. XD

nimble gale
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lol

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yeah

high current
mighty zephyr
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We've said we wanted to do this joke for like a year and half at this point

midnight grotto
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that's so funny goddamn

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have they not encountered any other "cosmic force of order/chaos" settings??

velvet sparrow
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I mean

Warhammer 40k maybe?

clear delta
latent bough
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Spoilers for tonight's session - Theta, Xeans, Juno, you're not to look!

SPOILER_image.png
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(But here's an NPC for them to get attached to >:3)

grave gulch
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hehe i can look wixelsSit

midnight grotto
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I really like that writeup

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nice format

rapid glacier
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I got introduced to Book of Hungry Names last week and just finished my third playthrough, anyone else have thoughts on it? Because I thought it was fantastic

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But I’m really short on resources to try and find the last few achievements

clear delta
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Book of hungry names?

latent bough
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😈

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Introduced my players to the head of the Spring Club (local variant of the Sprint Court) and she traumadumped her backstory to one of them after a party

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We are doing Changeling correctly

marble sorrel
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My Assamite has decided she needs to be an asshole to one of the other PCs for his own good.

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'I've got 5 dots in Generation (Because my sire was old as hell) and have been a vampire for roughly 3 weeks. I also trust everyone I meet and believe the best in people'

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'Oh Ahura Mazda, he's not going to survive to his first vampire birthday'

rapid glacier
mighty zephyr
rapid glacier
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It’s so good a couple of screenshots of bits sold it to my dad lmao

rapid glacier
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Gonna make a few fake Hog Throne tshirts for GenCon probably

vast blaze
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Making a guy for Dark Ages Vampire, planning on a monster hunter knight

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Looking forward to it tbh, vampire knights are cool as shit thematically

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What I got for a ref, the idea is that they take advantage of their supernatural strength to swing a giant fuckoff slab of metal around

Northern_Knight_screenshot5.png
mighty zephyr
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Well what year is it

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Because your guy probably doesn't look anything like that if it's the dark ages

dawn wigeon
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posted my changeling in the gallery channel
#the-gallery message

vast blaze
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Which is good, plate armor has a lot more swag than the chainmail that was predominantly being worn at the time

marble sorrel
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Plate is also just Objectively Better in Dark Ages.

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Having lower penalties to actions.

mighty zephyr
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Well plate doesn't exist really in the dark ages

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so it's like 5 armor plates on your chainmail

vast blaze
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Ah

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Hm

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Should probably make a samurai instead then, if I don't wanna go for the chainmail coat armor

mighty zephyr
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I mean if you don't need to be period appropriate it doesn't matter

marble sorrel
vast blaze
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He's part of Bruja, could maybe say they'd invented plate ahead of time...?

mighty zephyr
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I mean it's not really "invented"

vast blaze
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Given their whole schtick is being da biggest, bestest warriors

mighty zephyr
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That's also not really Brujah's shtick

vast blaze
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...yeah, true

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Samurai it is I guess

marble sorrel
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It's the True Brujah's shtick

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But they...don't get along with the Brujah. XD

nimble gale
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I mean, in the dark ages game I'm running I described a Tzimisce Prince as having a suit of dark plate armor, but uh, it was made of crabs that may or may not have been made of people at one point

marble sorrel
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Tzimesce!

mighty zephyr
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Like this would be "plate" armor as people understood it

roman-armor-stainless-steel-lorica-full-set-cassius-1.jpg
marble sorrel
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In this era, stylish armour is likely more 'Erdtree Surcoat' than 'Full plate'.

mighty zephyr
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Humanity isn't a video game tech tree, you can't just skip ahead

vast blaze
vast blaze
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sorry

mighty zephyr
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I'm not trying to beat you down Wamly, your first design is fine if the ST explicitly says not to care about historical accuracy

marble sorrel
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I am currently gearing up our Tzimesce because A) Aininur wants him not to die B) Aininur thinks he's more expendable than her.

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And in the dark ages, getting gear is serious work. XD

zinc robin
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Atlatl go brrrr

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Plus, seeing as it's a Tzimisce, you can get away with using just the darts because they can in fact make their arms just do that

marble sorrel
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Hah. He's from poland and I got him a Spear and some Chain, then Blood Tempered them both.

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Because Assasmite

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(Also since I know a ritual to track my own blood it means I can track him down whenever I want)

vast blaze
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Y'all know of any good character sheets for Dark Ages Vampire

mighty zephyr
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I would assume Mr. Gone

vast blaze
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Looked there but I didn't find any for Dark Ages

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Or is Victorian Age what I'm needing?

mighty zephyr
marble sorrel
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Hmm...Sorcerer Quietus is very funny for letting you Place Mean Traps places but man Dark Ages Quietus makes soaking the horrible Assasmite poison easy with '1 blood to instantly remove it'

vast blaze
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...why the fuck does character creation start at page 144 in Vampire Dark Ages, good god

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You'd think that would be the first thing

dawn wigeon
runic timber
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I honestly like the Dark Ages' 20 anniversary intro a lot

nimble gale
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They follow the tradition of a lot of wod books of the revised era of 'get them in with the fluff, then throw character creation and rules at them after they've read enough of The Vibes'

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which honestly I like? especailly if you're, like, a new player who isn't inundated with ttrpg knowledge

runic timber
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its all written from the perspective of this old lady, trying to explain the situation and give tips to a newly embraced vampire

nimble gale
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I probably never would have gotten into wod if Mage: the Ascension Revised started with chargen and rules, given I was a young little tubeling and my only experience with RPGs was DnD 3.5e

dawn wigeon
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I need an idea for my changeling's second touchstone

vast blaze
vast blaze
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Banu Haqim are the vampires that hunt other vampires, right?

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The fellas that go around killing other vampires that are stirring up shit?

mighty zephyr
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ye

nimble gale
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Yeah

vast blaze
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Right, thanks

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Think I might go Banu instead of Brujah, fits my idea of "vampire that hunts down supernatural threats" more

clear delta
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Drink souls like slurpee

vast blaze
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Mmmmmm yummy diablerie

clear delta
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"I just like to embrace vampires to then drink them"

rapid glacier
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Banu Haqim are cool as hell, and extremely dangerous to have on your tail for any reason

marble sorrel
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Oh right, Banu is what Assamites got adjusted to in v5.

rapid glacier
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sort of, the Children of Haqim and the Assamites were pretty closely linked before and had a come together moment after a civil war nearly destroyed both clans

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as I understand it, at least; the V5 Player's Guide mentions both original clans as seperate entities before 'modern nights'

marble sorrel
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I am enjoying my Assamite in @nimble gale's game. She's both A) A bearer of True Faith B) Kinda a Shithead.

nimble gale
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the Banu Haqim is just the in-clan name for the Assamites, as I understand it? but I've not read deep into V5 or W5; I prefer the 20th anniversary editions personally. also yes aininur is definitely a shithead

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on the plus side she means well, on the minus side the party tzimisce learned the hard way not to trust her.

marble sorrel
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Look, he was going to need to learn 'not to eat random things'. It's not her fault that she neglected to mention that she can eat food, not that vampires in general can eat food. XD

short quiver
marble sorrel
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The 'deliberately saying Sulayman instead of Solomon so she could taunt a Christian about not knowing a major biblical figure'...okay, that one was her just being a shithead.

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Poor Piotr. He is barely literate and being taunted by nerds.

short quiver
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(which, full credit where it's due, they have put a lot of work into that and generally pulled it off!)

marble sorrel
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Piotr has the issue that he's in a super Christian country which is rather anti-non-Christian in the Dark Ages and the non-Christian in the group has Theology 3 when his knowledge of his own faith is 'The priest speaks Latin, I just need to know when I say Amen'.

vast blaze
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There any supernatural creechurs that a mortal might stand some semblance of a chance against in a fight?

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Background for a vampire I'm making is that he managed to stand against some supernatural beastie and impressed the shit out of his sire

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I'm just not sure what, exactly, he could have stood against

marble sorrel
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Depends a lot on how fair the fight is but the average mortal could shove most mages in a locker if they were not prepped for a brawl.

vast blaze
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Werewolves are right out though, I know they're NOT on the table

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Delirium would cripple most mortals and if it didn't the werewolf would

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...if they're lucky, it's more likely to shred em

marble sorrel
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I mean...woofs don't like silver and a high willpower mortal can beat delerium.

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You didn't likely kill it but a mortal could Mess A Woof Up and make it Run.

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Especially if it didn't think they were a threat at the time.

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Important Question: Dark Ages or Modern Nights?

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As 'bullets' does rather a lot for 'what can a mortal kill'

mighty zephyr
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Wamy is playing DA

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Also humans have been hunting supernaturals since Cain walked around

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and have won every time

marble sorrel
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Aininur, the vomp I'm playing right now drove a werewolf off as a human. She got her guts pulled out in the process but he got a silver necklace shoved down his throat.

vast blaze
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Dark Ages, yeah

marble sorrel
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Okay. Well, considering the weakness of fay is 'Banality and Iron', it's not hard for a dark ages character to beat up something there if they just 'Had An Iron Knife' and got lucky.

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HOnestly, there's more supernatural creatures you can beat than ones you can't as a mortal as long as you're willing to accept that the odds are that you're gunna die.

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There's a reason why basicly every supernatural being by modern nights is going:

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A lucky arrow or crossbow shot is 'downed vampire'

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A lucky Literally Anything is Downed Mage.

nimble gale
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Even in the dark ages, a silver boar spear is going to do awful, awful things to a charging garou

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just, against most of these are you quite likely to be horribly mauled in the process

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mortals can't reliably survive the supernatural, but they can fairly reliably kill the supernatural, if that makes sense

marble sorrel
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Luckily garou can't claw through heavy chain like they can flesh.

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And even their 'I am aggravated' claws don't bypass armour

nimble gale
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They do get very high damage rolls, so they can still peel you like a can of sardines, but it's not an automatic murder

mighty zephyr
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Certain ones can

rapid glacier
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yeah I'm fairly certain even in the lower-powered W5 you can beer can a whole tank with enough effort

marble sorrel
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I wonder what the most accessible 'get a cool boss form' is in V20 for vampires. Serpantus and Vicissitude both get one.

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But both are rather specific/rare paths.

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I'm a sucker for 'Just a minute, going second form dracula'

radiant marsh
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I mean

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Zulo for Tzimisce is only a four-dot Vissi power

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And for six dots, you can make it fly!

marble sorrel
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Oh yes, it's more Zulo is also part of a 'we don't teach outsiders' path. XD

radiant marsh
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Ah

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Yeha

mighty zephyr
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Protean in general

marble sorrel
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Protean makes sense if you're cool with the form being 'a big animal'.

velvet sparrow
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Hm. Obtenebration gets one, although I don't know how freely that gets taught

radiant marsh
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The issue is they're all behind clan-specific disciplines

velvet sparrow
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I think just those three, and of them Obtenebration would probably be the easiest to get

radiant marsh
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Though in terms of willingness to teach outsiders and like "Will probably NOT kill you for knowing their super sekrit disciplines outside the clan"

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Protean is probably the one I'd go for

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Just because Gangrel are...Very decentralized

marble sorrel
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I get the feeling if Aininur learns Protean she's going to get somehow even more on Werewolf Shitlists.

radiant marsh
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Eh

marble sorrel
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'And now the vampire's doing cultural appropriation too!'

radiant marsh
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Nobody said you had to turn into a wolf

velvet sparrow
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Talking about the non-Protean ones, because while Big Wolf is the easiest to get, it's also the lamest of the four imo

marble sorrel
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Lack of Hands is always a tricky aspect

velvet sparrow
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If you're not a Gangrel you do have to go wolf

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Or bat, I guess

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The ability to be a different animal is a Gangrel specific thing (and even then it's not a freeform shapeshifting thing to my knowledge)

marble sorrel
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I think honestly as far as 'learning it', the easiest is likely honestly Vicissitude

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Since we're In Poland.

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And we're still in 'Vicissitude users are young upstarts trying to upset their elders' timeline-wise

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But this is just idle pondering for a long-time later. Before then I have some thaumaturgy and quietus and auspex to raise. XD

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quietus + celerity gets me the 'Spending blood on celerity doesn't use it up' combo discipline.

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And auspex will get me 'Seeing spirits is permanent for you, not something you need to activate' for my spirit-focused mage.

marble sorrel
# radiant marsh Nobody said you had to turn into a wolf

Oh, more joking about how Aininur is a Spirit Manipualtion Assamite Sorcerer. So she's arealy got 'dealing with spirits' and 'making fetishes' in her wheelhouse, adding 'turning into animals' is really treading on wooftoes. XD

short quiver
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can you still get infected with Vicissitude?
or did they drop that?

radiant marsh
radiant marsh
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And it's being played like

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Everybody knows just enough of the other's terminology from osmosis to draw the exact wrong conclusions

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Like

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"Glass Walker must mean any werewolf that goes into a city"

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So it was very awkward when the Vampire in question tried to impress my character by saying he knew she was a Glass Walker

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(She's a Shadow Lord)

marble sorrel
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Hahahah

rapid glacier
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OOPS

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well, could have called her a Silver Fang, that's usually a fast track to a tooth-and-claw ass whoopin'

marble sorrel
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Aininur is doing her best to hide the fact she's way too familiar with some werewolf terminology for a vampire from other vampires.

(She's got True Love + Sleeping With The Enemy).

rapid glacier
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Dark Secret - 'doing an Underworld'

radiant marsh
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The same vampire is also convinced the Red Talon is a 'gnawer'

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Because said SL said "No. Not a Gnawer either"

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And he took 'gnawer' to mean 'well they're really feral, so that makes sense.'

rapid glacier
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this vampire is gonna get eaten is what it sounds like

radiant marsh
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The player of the vampire agrees and is having a blast with it

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Because the whole setup is like

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'Decided to run from Politics to the most remote city he could think of, where obviously there'd be like at most a half dozen vampries, so he could set himself up as a big fish in a small pond'

rapid glacier
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I'm running a W5 and a V5 game, and in the W5 game the local vampires all have nicknames to refer to the local pack, but only one of them is brave enough to say those nicknames to their face

radiant marsh
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And it turns out 'most remote city you could think of' happens to be full of werewolves.

rapid glacier
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because he's a Malkavian and will drop a crazy bomb on them and then bail to a different state

radiant marsh
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It doesn't help that my character is like...

rapid glacier
radiant marsh
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But like

marble sorrel
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On the plus side: She drove a Bitter Rage off with her spirit manipulation magic. On the less plus side: There is someone hurling banes at people as she dragged out the fact it was bound here by a mage before she got rid of it. XD

rapid glacier
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excellent lmao

radiant marsh
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By Garou standards she's Exactly what you'd expect from a Shadow Lord Ahroun. By normal standards this means she's, at best, a very fucked-up scary person

marble sorrel
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Asakku are people who modified themselves too much and too unsafely and something nasty snuck in while their spiritual defences are down.

rapid glacier
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Shadow Lord Ahrouns are basically JoJo's protagonists with slightly higher bodycounts

radiant marsh
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She sees herself as the 'Big Stick'

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As in Speak Softly and Carry

marble sorrel
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I know what is the Big Worry for the campaign though Aininur doesn't.

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It's the Baali.

radiant marsh
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I like the blurb in the tribebook about Ahroun

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That sometimes the best play for a Shadow Lord

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If your enemy is expecting all the dirty tricks and leveraging politics that they're known for.

#

It can really catch them off guard if you just have a nine-foot ragemonster burst through the drywall.

radiant marsh
marble sorrel
#

Well, okay. Technically it's the Black Spiral Dancers and the Baali but those two groups get along well enough that 'One group of assholes are here, the others are too' isn't a huge surprise.

#

And the fact that there are Banes being hurled about makes that part more obvious.

#

The GM really took 'Hey, I see you have sleeping with the enemy' and went 'I GUESS YOU GUYS GAVE ME ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG YOU'

marble sorrel
#

It is eternally amusing that if Vampires and werewolves didn't just hate each other so much they'd be very good at handling each other's problems.

#

Pentex for all it's power would get destroyed by the political and economic power behind vampires.

#

While even the best True Black Hand soldiers would run into 'eaten by a werewolf' issues if they tried to apply their military force directly.

radiant marsh
#

According to Book of the Wyrm, Pentex does have a Vampire on its board

#

Who's also a Sabbat bishop

#

But it's explicitly stated like

#

The Sabbat want to promote him. He doesn't want this, because then they'd take a closer look at him.

#

And if they learned who he worked for and what they represented he'd be killed as a Diabolist

mighty zephyr
#

I don't think it's neccessarily true that vampires could handle Pentex any better than Werewolves are currently doing

short quiver
radiant marsh
#

the Pentex board is hilarious

#

You have

#

BSD, Vampire Mad Scientist, Other BSD, Literal Imbued who's trying to bring the whole thing down from within, Literally Just Some Guy

short quiver
#

I'm just remembering that Book of the Wyrm is different from Pentex: Subsidiaries
and then I'm remembering that their big "how can we disguise the target of our biting social commentary" solution was to stick the letter "d' in the middle of "Enron"

radiant marsh
#

Though now it hits a bit different

marble sorrel
#

"We welcome our new Pentex board member, Elomb Musk."

radiant marsh
#

Because when you think of Enron today it's less 'giant energy company' and more 'giant ponzi scheme'

vast blaze
#

Build question, is it worth trying to engage in spellblade shenanigans in Dark Ages Vampire

#

Was vaguely considering a blood mage vampire with a big sword

marble sorrel
#

There are some rituals for that! My Assamite has one of them because that's basicly her deal. XD

#

Flaming Sword is great for 'Screw it, time for someone to die'

#

And Weild the Spear of Damnation is kinda disgusting for 'keeping the blood flowing'

#

On the actual 'magic paths' front, Path of the Elements gives you a stat buff as the basic trick.

#

And also gets some nice support stuff later

#

Path of Spirit Manipulation doesn't give much for 'doing swordfights' until rank 4 when you get to Make Fetishes.

#

But overall, picking up a path for some 'doing utility things' and then learning some good Combat Rituals is very viable.

#

As rituals are really good at turning a blade into a god damn terror.

vast blaze
#

Roight

#

Definitely investing in vampire magics

marble sorrel
#

I think path of the focused mind is the primary 'do swordstuff good' magic path but is kinda lean on the 'magic' side.

#

It's the secondary path that Aininur is going for.

#

The capstone for it is Ultra Instinct Mode.

image.png
mighty zephyr
#

Man how is that Thaumaturgy

marble sorrel
#

I mean, one of the corebook thaumaturgy techniques was 'deflect bullets with your sword' so I think thaumaturgy can be whatever it wants. XD

#

That one also has 'Tell Mages to Fuck Off and Go Home.'

image.png
marble sorrel
#

Did True Brujah ever make a return in v5?

mighty zephyr
#

Non

#

I'm more just still incredulous about how ridiculous Thaumaturgy is

marble sorrel
#

Ironically, that 'Delete Target Mage' one is one I considered then decided to not touch with a 10 ft pole

#

Not because it's too ridiculous but because it's mostly Kinda Shit.

#

Just with a cool capstone

marble sorrel
#

Focused Mind is great for all 'I wanna be a jedi'

#

Even has a Mind Trick

vast blaze
#

What generation are most vampires in Dark Ages?

nimble gale
#

you start at 12

#

I'd say 12-10 are the most common generations in the dark ages

vast blaze
#

Right

#

My GM said that we're starting as relatively recently-ish sired 5th gens, I was mostly curious as to how high quality the team's blood would be

marble sorrel
#

So high that it's kinda beyond the scale of the Generation background...

vast blaze
#

Apparently it is insanely good quality, if most vampires are 10-12th generation

marble sorrel
#

Like, a full 5 dots in generation makes you 8th gen

vast blaze
#

Hm

#

I did notice that

#

But I assume he has something in mind for this

#

I know we get 15 points of freebies to put in our stats, which I assume isn't the norm

nimble gale
#

like, an extra 15?

#

because you normally get 15 to spend across everything, you're also getting an extra 15 just ofr stats?

vast blaze
#

Ah, so that is the norm

#

Hm

#

I should probably discuss this further with my GM then

#

Right, since we are neonates, we just get the basic "40 blood pool, can spend 8 BP per turn, trait cap of 8"

#

Which is sensible, we are only recently sired

marble sorrel
#

I mean I'm not sure I'd call a 40 blood pool/trait cap of 8 'reasonable' but hey, that's 5th gens I guess?

vast blaze
#

True

nimble gale
#

yeah your uh, normal, basic vampire is trait cap 5, blood pool 11, can spend 1/turn at this point

#

your game is definitely going to be more on the 'superheroes that are goth' end of vampire gaming

vast blaze
#

That does sound fun

#

Fits my character at least, was wanting to play a "Guts but vampire" type

velvet sparrow
mighty zephyr
#

You are indeed methuselahs out of the gate

rapid glacier
#

maybe its a What We Do In The Shadows pastiche

velvet sparrow
#

Of course, being Low Generation and young is, uh

#

Well, you have a massive target on your back and not especially greater strength than any other neonate?

grave gulch
#

What kind of vampire do yall think voy is?

vast blaze
#

Hrmm

#

He gives me Anarch vibes somehow

grave gulch
high current
#

well he calls himself the nelson boy so he must have celerity rooISee2 because speed is kind of nelson's main thing

#

brujah or toreador ig

#

i lean brujah but that might just be my own personal bias vvvSip brujah and tremere are my favorite of the core 7

#

(if we add the player's guide clans, tzimisce and hecate are also up there)

royal river
vast blaze
#

Boooooooooooooooo

vast blaze
#

Odd question

#

Were Dark Age Mages particularly violent types or were they more chill

nimble gale
#

It Varies

#

mages have (despte the order of hermes' insistance in the modern nights) never been a particularly unified group, and especially in the dark ages, which pre-dates the formation of the order of reason and the nine mystic traditions, individual mages are going to have very different approaches to

#

well, everything

mighty zephyr
marble sorrel
#

The Order of Hermes right now is literally on the warpath, mind you.

#

As they're being Salty Assholes over the Tremere existing

#

Which to be fair: The Tremere are also being salty assholes.

#

There's enough salt right now to make Lot's Wife.

mighty zephyr
#

If you aren't a tremre or a fae you're fine

short quiver
#

the Tremere do tend to have that effect on people

#

maybe it's something they're doing

nimble gale
#

yeah, it kinda sucks to be a tremere, but, being fair, they're basically dual classing in Asshole being vampire wizards, so

velvet sparrow
#

I like the Tremere

#

I like all of the T clans

marble sorrel
velvet sparrow
#

Probably!

nimble gale
#

honestly she's triple classing, being an assamite

#

vampire wizard assassin?

velvet sparrow
#

Hm

I think mechanically my favourite Clan might be Tremere, because I am a dirty Wizard lover

But thematically they kind of fall behind a bit, I don't know if Toreador or Tzimisce are my favourite vibes-wise

nimble gale
#

i've honestly been a nosferatu fan since I first picked the game up

mighty zephyr
#

Tremere I think suffer a bit from favortism making them come across as bland

velvet sparrow
#

I do think they Pyramid is cool, and it is a beat I am very fond of having for characters

marble sorrel
#

I think part of it is that 'magic' is a broad identity and other magic vampires tend to have more theming in their style of magic.

#

Settite Magic has specific themes etc, as does Assamite

mighty zephyr
#

Because you were "An Independent Clan but also a Camarilla Clan at the same time and no one could do anything about that"

marble sorrel
#

I think Tremere should have leaned harder into the blood part of blood magic. If settites cam get like 3 different magic paths out of 'SNAKES!', I think Tremere could have done a few blood themed paths instead of immediately jumping to more traditional paths like weather and elementalism.

#

I think some of the more general paths could have gotten a blood makeover to make them feel more uniquely Tremere.

mighty zephyr
#

Tremere not being able to do Choso shit confounds me to this day

marble sorrel
#

Like Conjuration could be fun if you make it craft objects out of blood. An iron spear formed from the iron in your vitae or a wall of frozen blood etc

mighty zephyr
marble sorrel
#

Put more Vampire in Vampire Mage. If that makes sense?

mighty zephyr
#

I mean maybe, but I also think that Blood Sorcery shouldn't be a clan discipline at all

#

It should be an aside you can opt into regardless of Clan

#

If you wanna keep the Path system at least

marble sorrel
#

I wouldn't mind something more like how solars have caste abilities in 3e Exalted. Broader options, pick a few for your character to spec in. A lot of bloodlines could easily be folded into main clan with that.

mighty zephyr
#

My dream way to set up Disciplines in Vampire would be

#

1 from Clan
1 from Sire
1 from Predator Type

#

And outside of the Clan one you just sorta pick

nimble gale
#

just give me the ability to start with obfuscate, viscisstude, and celerity and I will never need another again tbh.

marble sorrel
#

I want True Brujah for v5 but I know they're unlikely to return. ;-;

mighty zephyr
#

I can't imagine what they'd add considering their one crack at a Unique Discipline was universally panned

short quiver
marble sorrel
#

I like Temporis conceptually a lot. Time Stuff in games is really my jam.

short quiver
#

they basically had "cultural appropriation" as their superpower

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah but Blood Sorcery also is still an in-clan/out-of-clan Discipline

#

which is the problem

#

I'm just very staunchly in the camp that Unique Disciplines need to be all or nothing

#

either every Clan has one or none of 'em should.

marble sorrel
#

I liked how Barda was handled there. Literally anyone can learn it/they'll happily teach you if you join because the sons of osirus are not a clan or bloodline. They're an ORGANISATION.

#

So rather than it being a specific thing in the blood it's just local secrets.

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah I think there being abilities that aren't just Inherent Vampire Powers is good

short quiver
#

that was something I think was handled nicely in VtR

#

where you have your vampire disciplines and then Cruac and Sorcery are based on political affiliation

#

and all the way back in the first Lancea Sanctum book you had a guy trying to jump from the Ordo to the Sanctum to pick up all the superpowers and Birch getting Old Testament on his ass

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah its something I wish they cribbed a bit more of, though at this point it's sorta what Loresheets are now

dawn wigeon
#

I love changeling

Polish_20250613_132242150.png
vast blaze
#

Odd question

#

How balanced would an old-model HIT Mark player character be, realistically

#

I'd imagine they'd have to play like old Nosferatu, where you have to conceal and hide yourself constantly

mighty zephyr
#

Aren't you in dark ages

vast blaze
#

Oh this isn't for the Dark Ages game

#

This is just me spitballing and contemplating for modern WoD

#

Cause I got the idea of a bunch of vagabond non-humans banding together to hunt monsters, among their ranks being the more typical supernatural creatures and then just a fucking Terminator killbot

#

And I'm wondering if the HIT Mark would just end up outpacing everyone else

#

Or if they'd be relatively balanced all things considered

mighty zephyr
#

Well they would unbalance things since they aren't a splat or character template

#

They're an npc statblock

#

With no baseline or progression

nimble gale
#

I mean. PC HIT Marks are just mages.

#

explicitly

velvet sparrow
#

There's rules for PC HIT Marks?

vast blaze
#

Not as far as I'm aware, why I'm asking if they'd be unbalanced as PCs

patent stirrupBOT
#

Mage is not balinced in the slightest so like we think it would be anymore unbalinced then the gaem can be normaly

marble sorrel
#

I wonder when the v1 hit marks were.

#

The v2 are 1300s...

#

Mostly pondering if they'd be a thing in early Dark Age. V2 are late dark age...

marble sorrel
#

HIT Mark Is, the first example of artificial creation, were first created in 1523 BCE by early Artisan

#

Oh okay. that's a bit of a gap

#

...can True Faith dissolve Mage spells? It does say you can use it on Supernatural Effects and mage spells are such.

# 
True Faith is a shield against supernatural powers. Any time a Faithful would be directly affected by a supernatural power, vampire Discipline, ghostly manifestation, or witchcraft, she may spend a Willpower point to resist the power. Subtract her True Faith from any successes rolled against her. When this roll is used to resist the effects of Daimonion, her rating counts as double.
patent talon
#

Sure sounds like it

marble sorrel
#

Pondering due to 'Oh fuck, we're in Poland in the 1200s. The bloody knights templar are likely gunna come running through here at some point and Chwarszczany Chapel is within two weeks on horseback distance' reasons.

#

Man, Poland is the middle of a massive 'every single supernatural group is causing some nonsense around here'

clear delta
clear delta
nimble gale
# velvet sparrow There's rules for PC HIT Marks?

Yes, they're just Mages (for ones advanced enough to be PCs) with a particular paradigm and a set of merits, at least in M20. Others are 'just' Extraordinary Citizens (IE Sorcerers) rules-wises, the ones with less advanced tech, if you want them to be a PC-facing option.

#

in earlier editions they had more boutique rules and were explicilty not really PC options but M20 assumes the 'kinder, gentler technocracy' for what it presents as PC options, since it's easier to take options away at a table than homebrew up more

mighty zephyr
#

And native gifts that every Garou get

nimble gale
#

sorry, I was having a wod conversation elsewhere about W5

#

that was not meant for this conversation and made no sense in context

#

apologies

clear delta
vast blaze
#

I just fucking one-tapped a Wight

#

Got lucky with my damage roll and did like 12 lethal damage all at once

#

Holy fuck fifth generations are scary

mighty zephyr
#

I mean yes, you are absolutely outside the playable boundary of a PC

nimble gale
#

In all my vtm games I've gotten to fifth generation once, and that wasin a gehenna scenario sabbat game

#

I went 'hunters hunted' on a bunch of niktuku as a nosferatu antitribu and worked my way up to Absimiliard at the campaign's apex. Was a fun romp.

grave gulch
#

how would yall pull liminal spaces in mage? im trying to figure out a session focused on that! was thinking either a hospital or a shopping mall for the base of the map

marble sorrel
#

...liminal spaces? I mean, liminal spaces are just spaces between other spaces. Do you mean like places where the gap between reality and stygia or the umbra are thin?

grave gulch
#

sorry that wasnt very clear

#

thinking of something like the house in house of leaves

#

a space that is ever shifting, strangely empty, like between reality and something else

mighty zephyr
#

Verges

#

The rules for Verges are what you're looking for

grave gulch
#

vicksyNoted do we have those in the main book?

mighty zephyr
#

Wish I could tell ya

grave gulch
#

well guess its time i go looking for them then! thanks voy

latent bough
#

Ready to traumatize my Changeling players in session two tomorrow

marble sorrel
#

Isn't that the default state of nWoD changelings? 😛

#

Or are you going to force oWoD changelings to Do Taxes?

nimble gale
#

hell making normal mortals do taxes is traumatizing enough

clear delta
# grave gulch <a:vicksyNoted:1182832331598344263> do we have those in the main book?

Probably as small section
Signs of sorcery talks a bit on strange places too. Like the supernal bleeding over
The Soul Cage is a 1e session published on rpg net forums. It has a place influenced by a supernal minotaur. Just search "minotaur roared" in the thread
The book of spirits talks of mortals getting stuck in the spirit world, and of places-that-aren't

vast blaze
nimble gale
#

fair but that's less funny

mighty zephyr
#

Also yeah the Shadow can also just be a limenal space

high current
#

and yeah Signs of Sorcery has more stuff on Verges, as well as other location-based manifestations of the Supernal(Manteions, Hallows, Emanations)

clear delta
#

Geist has low places close to the underworld, but I don't think much happens there except collect plasm
Genius Loci are mentioned all the time, but I never found an explanation of them
Ghost Stories is full of spooky locations. Just CW for SA. The first location has it only as a mention, but second has more emphasis as it's a house whose couple liked to lure and murder women

clear delta
#

Infrastructure of the God Machine can be weird

marble sorrel
#

I wonder what the best way to make a Cool Swordfighter/Knight with Changeling would be. Wizened has Soldier but Ogre is there being Big and Touch.

#

Do Changelings have a way to apply Defence vs Bullets like Geists can?

clear delta
#

Anyway, Elemental and Ogre seem like the more warrior like seemings in both editions

marble sorrel
#

Yeah. Ogre seems very big and bulky warrior, not really 'graceful duelist' sort but hitting hard is important for handling a lot of problems. XD

clear delta
#

Elemental gets to wield the might of elements
In 1e they get durability. In 2e their contract is straight up called the Contract of Sword

#

Fairest can also do duelist in the sense of skill and grace

marble sorrel
#

Fair. Pondering myself some Lancelot Classic.

high current
#

the green knight as interpreted in the recent movie(tree dude) would be an elemental i think

#

not familiar enough with changeling to say what seeming he'd be though

mighty zephyr
#

I wanted to make a Knight Changeling and went fairest

short notch
#

Quick, queue up the Bloodlines theme

radiant marsh
#

I want to wander an empty street at 2 am in the neon glow of seedy establishments while the Bloodlines Hollywood theme plays

silver apex
#

i do this but on the train at night with vesuvius

silver apex
#

i will run rites of passage for werewolf 1e to introduce a group to WoD now that i have it on hand, when i get to vampire i am not sure whether to just keep at 1e/2e WoD or change to v5 lol, i want to run an intro module so im thinking blood nativity from 1e if its good or the meat locker from v5

rapid glacier
#

V5 and W5 have a couple free or cheap intro modules, but I’ve never used them

#

I heard Meat Locker was decent enough? Vampire groups vary wildly on taste though

silver apex
#

yeah the free christmas/new years one seem good but i want a very introductory one because they have no idea aboit the world, i may go from one to those free v5 ones

clear delta
#

Any fun spirits you guys had?

mighty zephyr
#

Petrichor: The herald of the rain
Fire At Will: A gun that loves killing people as a metallic rattlesnake

#

The Boom: the struggling spirit of a towns previous economic prosperity

grave gulch
#

whats a simple way to do a puzzle with a spirit(chornicles of darkness) where ya need to get a code out of em? vicksyThink i know they can be made to do such things but im not really sure how to roleplay one

orchid void
grave gulch
#

omg its delilah vicksyFlowerLove here's a flower for u

clear delta
#

A spirit may want you to affect the area/community in the flesh, or help in shadow politics
You may threaten a spirit instead by messing with these factors

marble sorrel
#

OOC comment from our Tremere that is perfectly 'tremere.jpg'.

image.png
rapid glacier
#

It’s an ancestor spirit of a dead Hart Warden

clear delta
#

What do you expect a jellyfish shifter to be about?

grave gulch
#

Poison vicksyWHD

rapid glacier
#

yeah I dunno, something like a Mokole that's worried about sea acidity?

#

I got nuthin

marble sorrel
#

...is there actually any link between oWoD Fomori and oWoD Fey?

#

It's kinda weird that Fomori are a threat for Werewolf, not Changeling.

mighty zephyr
#

Not really

#

Fomori are just possessed people

marble sorrel
#

Weird choice of name then.

nimble gale
#

it was the '90s

mighty zephyr
#

They just called shit shit

#

Why are the werewolves french

#

but all the gods are greek

nimble gale
#

they were doing their best with what they could scrounge up from the local library + usenet forums

mighty zephyr
#

it just sounds cool

marble sorrel
#

They should totally inkerlink them more when they do V20 Dreaming.

#

Would genuinely help with one of the Dreaming issues of 'Not a lot of non-changeling external threats'

mighty zephyr
#

You mean 5th?

#

They already did Dreaming 20th

nimble gale
#

I don't thin kwe're getting any more 20th lines

marble sorrel
#

...I hate WoD numbering.

#

What's the New Old World of Darkness line called right now?

nimble gale
#

so you've got oWoD 1, 2, Revised, 20, and 5

#

then you have nWoD and cWoD, which is nWod 2

mighty zephyr
#

Chronicles

#

Wait

marble sorrel
#

Okay. 5 then, yeah.

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah

#

Also they probably won't

#

They've been pretty adamant about not doing lore explainations for other splats in other splats books

#

So the Dreaming and Spirits are probably going to remain seperate

marble sorrel
#

...that seems a bit silly but okay.

mighty zephyr
#

I mean they were always seperate

#

and the cross-splat explainations almost always sucked

marble sorrel
#

...then again, it's Dreaming so I'm not sure how much they plan to support it at all.

#

It's kinda overshadowed by the nWoD changeling.

mighty zephyr
#

We have no idea, all we know is that Lost isn't replacing Dreaming

#

The Fae as presented in the current line up of 5th books seem to indicate Fae might be both types of Changeling

nimble gale
#

yeah, and Vigil didn't replace Reckoning

marble sorrel
#

I hope they give it a solid update. As it's a gameline I rather liked but it had a lot of issues both mechanically and just 'Please, talk to a person over 30. They're not monsters'-wise. XD

#

Dreaming got a lot better flfufwise as it went on but man it didn't start great.

#

And the mechanics never quite got properly polished.

mighty zephyr
#

I am hoping Dreaming 5th tries to combine the best of Lost and Dreaming

#

I genuinely think having both kinds be playable in the same game

#

would be amazing

marble sorrel
#

I think you'd sorta need to square the circle that lost and dreaming Fae are...not really the same sort of beings and Lost Changelings are something you become, while Dreaming changelings are something you always were.

mighty zephyr
#

I mean I think the circle is easily squared tbh

#

Changelings are Fae in human-skin
either because a fae made their own persona when fleeing Arcadia
or a human was given a fae persona when dragged into Arcadia

marble sorrel
#

The issue there is that it kinda...pushes the theming of fae stuff into Lost's territory.

#

The Dreaming fey realm wasn't a horrible place. It was a place people couldn't inhabit easily but it was a source of much of the beauty and wonder and creativity of the world.

mighty zephyr
#

They already had the Unseelie as "abusive terrible fae'

#

I also think like, saying that the Dreaming is both the collective dreams and nightmares of humanity, and as things in the world are getting worse the Nightmares are winning is like
"Yes I would imagine a TTRPG would be about this" territory

#

I find that more compelling than "make the world less boring"

marble sorrel
#

I'd personally prefer to keep nWoD changeling out of Dreaming instead of trying to add a second game line to a revival of a different one.

#

Like nWoD changeling already exists. I don't think it needs to also be added to oWoD changeling

mighty zephyr
#

I find this no different than the Lupus/Homid divide in Werewolf

#

It's just an origin that dictates how your character plays

marble sorrel
#

While I find it kinda...taints a lot of the theming if you make the Dreaming a more hostile place by making a Notable Subtype 'People who were dragged into fey torture realm for an abuse metaphor' when the other group are a freedom and creativity metaphor.

#

It's also taking pagecount away from the actual Dreaming side of Dreaming.

#

Lost has plenty of pagecount in its own books.

mighty zephyr
#

I think Dreaming suffers from a pervasive immaturity in it's writing that would be especially tiring in a modern viewpoint, and the venn diagram of systemic and personal abuse themes is pretty close to a single circle.

#

The idea of art being used to help those in pain, and likewise learning to enjoy the world again after being hurt, would be very powerful thematic throughlines for a revitalized game.

marble sorrel
#

...okay, you know what? I'm done here.

mighty zephyr
#

Aight

marble sorrel
#

...no, nevermind. It's kinda really annoying to be saying 'I like this game and hope it's revival is good' and to have nWoD changeling dragged into it because part of the issue is that nWoD changeling is a very different game. Then to have it said 'The game you like and wanted to talk about has pervasive immaturity that is tiring to a modern viewpoint'.

Yes, I would like to see Dreaming get a good revival. No, I don't want them to do so by bastardizing it with a different game.

#

I think the nWoD Demon players would be understandably annoyed if oWoD demons turned up and went 'Oh yeah, this is now a game about redemption and torment, not spy stuff'.

#

Like I don't want Demon v5 to bring in the God Machine and I don't want Changeling V5 to bring in Lost's focus.

#

I would like the revival of a game to focus on...that game.

mighty zephyr
#

I think it's a recurring criticism I've seen of Dreaming for years now that it lacks a grounded center and strong thematic objectives in its play, and I also don't think that mixing in the themes and vibes of Lost does anything to make Dreaming Not Dreaming.

I also don't think that just adding Lost-style changelings as a character option suddenly means the game is completely different. It's just an added character option, like Homid/Lupus, Generation/Clan, and etc that give the game variety and strong character dynamics people can call on straight out of character creation.

#

The themes are going to have to change to be relevant cuz that's how games like this kinda have to evolve

#

I also think the game needs to make Changelings spawn in fully formed as adults because the current set up is not really fun.

marble sorrel
#

Okay so here is a question: Do you actually like Dreaming in any capacity?

mighty zephyr
#

I like it well enough

#

I dislike its lack of coherency and eurocentricism tho

marble sorrel
#

...it's about Fey, it was always going to be centered on celtic mythology.

mighty zephyr
#

Not just that

#

I'm also talking about stuff like the 9/11 lore

#

And I mean yeah, it's always going to be Celtics myth, but trying to fit all myths on earth under Celtic myths is weird.

#

I don't think it's controversial to say WW games did not handle Asia and Africa too well in most of their games.

marble sorrel
#

no but I'm also going to flatly say that I think Lost handled Celtic mythology in a shitty way too.

#

Being heavily focused on post-colonial interpretations of the fey

mighty zephyr
#

I think Lost is more focused on crafting a personal narrative for your particular guy than it is trying to emulate specific mythologies

#

Like it's not saying "Kappa are changelings" it's saying "You were a Japanese woman turned into a garden fixture during your durance" and if that makes you Kappa-like, cool that's on you

marble sorrel
#

...I mean, if your game is called Changeling and the beings are called Fae, I'm not sure that's really an argument for it being a good thing.

mighty zephyr
#

Maybe, maybe not, but its a set up I prefer than an adherence to geography that a lot of old ww set ups had. It's much easier to localize.

marble sorrel
#

While I'd like an update of Dreaming to be dreaming, not go 'Oh yeah, lets make it partially lost and change the theming'. Changeling: The Lost already exists. It doesn't need to become part of a game doing a very different thing.

#

Much like how I am going to be very annoyed if V5 Demon tries to God Machine things up to make it more like nWoD demon.

mighty zephyr
#

They probably aren't doing Demon 5th they said.

#

They are probably just going to have wraiths and demons show up in other game lines.

marble sorrel
#

...damnation. That was top of my list of what I was hoping to see in v5 as demon's mechanics are not great and its nWoD version bears basicly no resemblance in themes.

nimble gale
#

That's kind of missing the point Iki is making

mighty zephyr
#

Likewise I will say, the older editions of Changeling will also still exist, I think it's fine to try something new if the first jump didn't land.

marble sorrel
#

They did. It's called Lost.

#

V5 is supposed to be revivals of the oWoD lines

mighty zephyr
#

Yes, and a lot of the best changes are because they are going the same route CoFD did.

#

Like divorcing geography from character options

marble sorrel
#

That's very subjective.

#

And like, what I'm hoping for is a Dreaming that well...has good rules. As Dreaming and Demon both suffer from 'As games their rules are pants'.

mighty zephyr
#

The tone is already hostile enough that I'm not gonna comment anything about demon other than the previous fact I gave.

marble sorrel
#

I mean, it's kinda hard to avoid hostility when you say 'pervasive immaturity in it's writing that would be especially tiring in a modern viewpoint' to someone who was talking about how they are looking foward to an update of a game they like.

mighty zephyr
#

I don't think either of you are bad people for liking things I don't like. But I will explain my opinions about things I don't like and why I don't like them if that is the conversation. This doesn't reflect at all my opinion on you at all, but on the shared product we are talking about.

#

I didn't suddenly drop in an unprompted criticism of Dreaming, we were just talking about it.

marble sorrel
#

Like to put cards on the table: I detest how celtic mythology is used as a 'grab bag' mythology.

#

How you can go 'oh yeah, I'm using celtic mythology but I don't need to give a shit about it, as it's just being treated as a default'

#

RPGs use it all the god damn time

mighty zephyr
#

If they announced Changeling 5 and I volleyball spiked your excitement, that's different than a frank discussion of the merits of the game.

marble sorrel
#

And Lost...does not give a rat's ass about the mythology it uses

#

Dreaming had tonal issues and shitty rules but there was a clear love of the mythology that shone through.

mighty zephyr
#

Yes, but it was a very narrow love that ended up sweeping aside a lot of equally vibrant cultures under a very clumsily held umbrella.

#

Like I don't really hold Dark Ages changeling to the same standard because if the game was explicit that its just about western Europe I'd be totally fine with it.

marble sorrel
#

...I mean, that's the nature of working with mythology in urban fantasy. Either you treat it as a global thing or you silo things off and you get 'Vampire: Actually Jiangshi Who Have A Whole Different Thing Going On', which had some serious issues of its own.

mighty zephyr
#

I'm not defending Kuei Jin by any metric

marble sorrel
#

It would be equally weird and messed up to go 'Turns out the realm of dreaming and creativity only exists in Ireland and Scotland'.

mighty zephyr
#

Well you'd probably not make such concrete reality statements if you're going local

#

I do think that "it's really tiring the entire world works off how Europe says" is a valid criticism considering its not a one-off and was a very consistent throughline over multiple games.

#

And more care and research could be done to localize things.

#

Even if it's still written for a primarily white American and European audience, if you're gonna make blanket statements about other cultures you should do due diligence.

marble sorrel
#

...that was literally my complaint a moment ago about how Celtic mythology is treated.

#

That people use it without respect or diligence to handle it well.

mighty zephyr
#

Yes, and Dreaming does that to everyone East and South of France.

marble sorrel
#

...wait, why france? The Tuatha are not part of the mythology of france...

#

It's a very localized mythology that Dreaming works with, that doesn't extend that far

mighty zephyr
#

Doing Celts broadly

marble sorrel
#

...that's...not...arg...

mighty zephyr
#

Since the French are technically celts and Germans doing a fusion dance and becoming Italians

#

It's a small joke I do not have the specific cultural lines of fae myth memorized

marble sorrel
#

Like if you wanted to point to somewhere in mainland europe you could have at least pointed to Greece or the Iberian Peninsula

#

As those are part of the mythology.

mighty zephyr
#

This is very much semantics besides my point tho

#

Everywhere outside the Isles

#

There, revised statement

marble sorrel
#

...I mean you're never going to have a mythological game that A) Draws on mythology B) Maps well to all mythologies.

Hell, to go with my previous example - Greek Mythology and Irish Mythology about the exact same location are mutually exclusive. XD

mighty zephyr
#

I mean yeah

#

So don't explain other people's myths with your own

#

It's really easy to do that

#

If you set a story in Greece with the Greek gods doing Greek God things you do not need to include the detail that actually all the Hindu gods are Zeus' long lost children

#

Changelings can exist and be Irish and weird but you should not have them be the reason mythologies exist because then you boil hundreds if not thousands of cultures down to

Oireland

marble sorrel
#

That leads to the other design issue of 'Hey, why does the mystical nature of reality change based on country'. It makes it difficult to...actually provide any concrete information about things.

That or you need to just sorta go "DON'T ASK ABOUT THAT!" if anyone ever asks a major setting question.

#

Which is an issue if your game's primary tonal focus is on big concepts.

mighty zephyr
#

I think if your game needs to "well actually" another person's culture to uplift your own you need to rewrite the concept of the game.

marble sorrel
#

...okay, I think I'm done arguing here as it's clear it's not going anywhere.

next totem
#

might it not be better to simply accept that each gameline is going to have to have its own interpretation of things, and the actual solution to this is... more gamelines, more franchises?

mighty zephyr
#

I think so as long as you aren't overwriting other peoples beliefs or cultures with your own

#

Like it's not the problem that Changelings exist in Calcutta or Tokyo

next totem
#

like, to be clear, no matter what you're going to be overwriting someone's

mighty zephyr
#

It's the problem of making sweeping statements about those cultures having false beliefs as a result of your game line existing

next totem
#

well yeah, but also having any of these does that to like. Monotheists of any stripe

mighty zephyr
#

Abrahamic faiths aren't actually monotheistic raddaraddaradda

marble sorrel
#

...

next totem
#

case in point

mighty zephyr
#

I mean that's just actual biblical Canon that other gods did and do exist.

next totem
#

I don't think this is a very good direction to go in, ngl

mighty zephyr
#

And again I do think there is a difference between saying like "magic exists!" And "magic is the reason people believe in this religion, because a character I wrote did a funny"

next totem
#

the actual solution to that is to not write urban fantasy

mighty zephyr
#

You can write an urban fantasy setting that does not go out of its way to invalidate specific cultures

next totem
#

because as you've just helped prove, it's pretty unavoidable

mighty zephyr
#

I think it's very avoidable though.

next totem
#

now, obviously, "don't write urban fantasy" is a pretty cruddy solution for anyone who is a fan of urban fantasy and wants to engage with urban fantasy

next totem
#

four minutes ago

mighty zephyr
#

That's a gross misinterpretation of my statement I feel like.

next totem
#

like you're definitely making a point here but the point you're making is that "the boot is good as long as the boot is pagan and it's the evil monotheists being disrespected", which is, again, not a good direction to go in.

mighty zephyr
#

I am also not saying that at all

next totem
mighty zephyr
#

It's not, the Bible literally mentions multiple gods existing. No religion on earth is truly monotheistic.

next totem
#

and like, don't get me wrong, in my heart of hearts I'm a pretty militant atheist. but you're not actually avoiding any problems by saying that "all myths are real"

next totem
mighty zephyr
#

I'm really confused here.

obsidian tinsel
#

Various denominations of Christianity have different interpretations and readings of the bible, and despite remnants of ancient henotheism, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of modern Christians and Jews will reject the notions of other gods.

next totem
#

you are absolutely going "well actually" on Abrahamic religion by insisting that the faith recognizes the existence of other gods

radiant marsh
#

They do their own semi-conlang for all the terminology

#

So everything actually sounds consistent

mighty zephyr
#

I do like first tongue

next totem
#

now, if you ask me, then yes, the earliest bits of the bible were written by polytheists and later by henotheists and only after that by monotheists - but this is not a relevant element of the modern faith. It's not how the religions in question have operated since before Cleopatra was born.

radiant marsh
#

Kind of clever really

mighty zephyr
#

But I'm also catholic, and I can point that most current translations of the Bible still mentions the multiple gods in Genesis.

radiant marsh
#

"It's the oldest language we know of, but we ran it through a reverse linguistic drift so it sounds like an archaic version of said language."

next totem
radiant marsh
#

Isn't there a biblical story where one of the prophets confronts priests of a different god

#

And turns his staff into a snake

marble sorrel
radiant marsh
#

And the priests go 'big deal, we can do that too'

mighty zephyr
#

There's also the God of Moab

radiant marsh
#

And turn the staffs into snake

#

And then the God snake eats the others

mighty zephyr
#

Also yes this was Moses

#

I also think this gets into a wider theological debate on if angels, demons, and etc count as a polytheistic interpretation of the Abrahamic faith, all of which are widely accepted facets of modern day christendom

next totem
#

I think you're crossing the line past heresy and into heathenry rn lmao

mighty zephyr
#

I do think this is wildly off course

#

Regardless

marble sorrel
#

But to draw the absolute smallest circle on 'can you write urban fantasy without overuling other cultures and faiths': I don't think you could write Christian Urban Fantasy that doesn't overrule Other Christian demonominations, let alone non-christian ones.

obsidian tinsel
#

Also, I don't think Muslims particularly care about what's in the bible?

mighty zephyr
#

I will admit I cannot make as informed statements about the Quran as I can the Bible

marble sorrel
obsidian tinsel
#

Yeah

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah Muslims being considered heathens is dumb

obsidian tinsel
#

I mean, a very simple syllogism is "Islam is Abrahamic" and "the Shahada is an explicit rejection of polytheism"

next totem
#

I think the much more honest and mature approach is to just be honest and transparent about what your particular franchise is trying to do

#

and ideally point people in the direction of other franchises for other takes

#

kitchen sink franchises can work, but it's going to struggle with being a focused and coherent experience

mighty zephyr
#

Which is what I've been saying

marble sorrel
#

Writes the words 'Father Son and Holy Spirit' in Christian Urban Fantasy, is immediately beaten up by Nontrinitarian denominations for disparaging them

#

...hell, to go to the Fey example since this started with Changeling.

#

If you have Fey, you are already disparaging most christian denominations, which is an issue as the Book of Invasions makes it very clear that christianity is a major part of the story. XD

mighty zephyr
#

Like that's not the point I'm making though

#

I'm not saying the sheer existence of a line somehow is an invalidating experience

#

What I have an issue with is the idea of having your thing, from a specific culture, then going across the world, picking up another thing, saying "This? It's actually our thing. Always was."

#

You can have your things exist anywhere at any time for whatever reason, but if you go Big and try to brush broadly, like old wod tended to do, it ends poorly.

#

I am on 1% battery life so I think that's gonna be my final statement on that topic

grave gulch
#

vicksyHmm i need to figure out something akin to a "madness" condition, i want it to be something special for tonight's session...and was hoping for some suggestions (chronicles of darkness)

clear delta
#

Think there are some?

grave gulch
#

im making a puzzle for tonight's game vicksySmug should take the entire session...

#

its gonna be fun

clear delta
#

So, what you want the madness to do?
I know mage has at least one example of a mad tilt/condition

grave gulch
#

i'll look it up vicksyNoted

#

here's the idea of the puzzle: basically, each player will be split in a different spot of the timeline, stuck in a cell, each needing to find a number of the code, they share the cell with an npc who will be finding out the code as time passes, the thing is that with the passing of time his sanity dwindles, at some spots of the timeline he needs to be lucid and other spots he needs to be not so much, each action affects the later spot of the timeline so the players have to figure out in what order to go

#

there will also be a chance for an act of hubris here

#

but basically in the spot where the madness condition is required, they can allow themselves to be inflicted with the condition and that will grant them the code but then become afflicted by the condition

#

there's more bits to it such as how each player has stuff that can be affected by their arcana (best suited for their path pretty much) but those arent important for answering your question

mighty zephyr
grave gulch
#

nice vicksyAww

hybrid dock
#

I’ve been on a weird demon the descent mood recently.
Got reminded that it is seriously plausible to play a demon who’s just been hiding in the group chat of another supernatural splat and just pretending to be one of them.

mighty zephyr
#

There's an entire write up in one of the Forsaken books about a werewolf slowly realizing this has happened to them

hybrid dock
#

What, just like realizing one of their friends may not ACTUALLY be a werewolf?

mighty zephyr
#

One of their wolf-blooded

hybrid dock
#

That’s amazing

#

That’s so funny

mighty zephyr
hybrid dock
#

Godddd

#

Just being a helpful little guy!!!!!

#

UwU

mighty zephyr
#

(They are going to beat this Demon to death)

hybrid dock
#

Analyst angel who’s job it was to spy on a specific splat and falling during their spy mission so they’ve just been sticking around and being helpful

#

Nooooooo

#

;-;

#

Just being a helpful little guy!

mighty zephyr
#

A spirit that steals bodies and souls!

#

That's a Claimed!!!!!

hybrid dock
#

So meannnn

#

Alas, the plight of the demon

clear delta
#

Only a specific type of demon blooded can verify the honesty of demons

hybrid dock
#

Demon hiding among changelings like “yes I too am hiding from a horrible father-like figure of nameless power”

mighty zephyr
#

"Hello fellow refugees"

hybrid dock
#

I fuckin wrote fanfiction for that last night

#

Because it amused me greatly

heady kestrel
#

In the demon storyteller book they mention its pretty common for demons to assume Luna is an archangel and side with The Pure

Which, bruh moment

mighty zephyr
#

Changeling is fun crossover

mighty zephyr
#

runs outside, points at the Moon
"FUCK YOU, FASCIST!"

hybrid dock
clear delta
hybrid dock
#

Plus there is actually practical utility in hiding among supernaturals that already are in hiding.
It means that your actions are rarely ever suspicious to the thing you’re actually scared of

hybrid dock
mighty zephyr
#

The Pure are bastards but they make good points if you don't have the bigger picture.

#

And like
The Forsaken are also bastards

heady kestrel
heady kestrel
heady kestrel
mighty zephyr
#

I actually really like the Changeling/Beast crossover

hybrid dock
#

Ooo?

mighty zephyr
#

My Beast offered faustian pacts to Changelings where he'd stash them in his lair if they were being hunted by a Huntsman

#

specifically so he could hunt and eat the huntsman

hybrid dock
#

LMAO

clear delta
#

Anyone played with shifters besides werewolves?

mighty zephyr
#

In oWoD?

clear delta
#

Cofd

mighty zephyr
#

I was going to put a bull-shifter in my cowboy game but ran out of oxygen for it

clear delta
heady kestrel
#

I think a lot about Angels and Seers Of The Throne having wack ass very strained business relationships

Instagram model who promotes body negativity on purpose:“Demiurge collab :3”
Numious being of fiber optic eyes and wheels: ”would you stop fucking around”

hybrid dock
#

“CAN YOU STOP FUCKING AROUND” spoken in magnesium flare

mighty zephyr
#

"WE GOTTA LOCK IN MAN"

hybrid dock
#

I’m losing it at “demiurge collab”

#

That’s so fucking good

clear delta
hybrid dock
#

OH MY GODDDDDD

heady kestrel
#

God…

hybrid dock
#

Most insane fall of all time

mighty zephyr
#

"We'll defect if you help me hide my girlfriend"
Pentacle mage looks to the left and sees the Blade of Damocles, a clockwork executioner of such honed edge that space itself is minutely cut with every sway of it's blade.
"Man"

hybrid dock
#

”man”

heady kestrel
#

Angel, Seer Of The Throne and I dunno one of the Reapers from Sin Eater in a nightmare blunt rotation

mighty zephyr
hybrid dock
mighty zephyr
#

The Pure

clear delta
#

Reaper: Honestly, I just joined cause I like swallowing people

mighty zephyr
#

👀

#

"fr?"

grave gulch
hybrid dock
#

Demon with a former seer gf is…living in my brain

#

Both hiding among mages and not talking about it

#

People assume they were both former seers based on suspicions but-no

heady kestrel
#

Me and Karen were coming up with funny archangels recently and I came up with the funny idea of “what if the Angel of death on the moon and the Psychopomp exarch have to like… meet up and make sure all their ducks are in a row every once in a while”

mighty zephyr
#

What if the Angel of Death on the moon has to keep dodging Idigam

#

and is like a traumatized 'nam vet

hybrid dock
#

“Look so, I’ve got some stuff to do with a plague in-“

"Joel T. Fulcher, Car Crash, 204"
"Nicole C. Roberts, Heart Attack, 10"
"Eddie E. Rood, lethal Injection, 3024"
"Kerri M. Boykins, Alcohol Poisoning, 2"
"Duane T. Kendall, Drowning, 110"

”can you not fucking interrupt.”

clear delta
mighty zephyr
#

except you can't leave

clear delta
#

Death angel coming to the archangel meet up
Instead of being in the angel equivalent of formal garb, she has ripped up battle form only repaired enough to function, is always using her sensors in every direction, and insists on having an amount of weapons ready

heady kestrel
#

The god machine had to cook up a whole scheme to retrieve that archangel involving giving a bunch of vampires slender sickness

Presumably because of how Magically potent the moon is between the Idigam and Luna

mighty zephyr
#

Luna "get this fucker off me"

clear delta
#

They call mockingly her Rambo, specially because she liked the movie due to being relatable, and after she had a breakdown
So death angel is willing to work with demons to screw over the other archangels

heady kestrel
#

Lmao
Good shit

mighty zephyr
#

The Pack is a good book

heady kestrel
#

Rare moment where someone else corrupts and encourages a beast to feed(not sure how actually rare this is but, that is traditional beast behavior)

clear delta
#

The shifters in war against the pure are cool of course, but I wonder what else people created

mighty zephyr
#

I was going to build Bear shifters out

#

but based off my fucked up interpretation of Mighty Bear, the Pangean that Winter Wolf stole his powers from

clear delta
#

Ah cool
Think I saw that on the forums too?

mighty zephyr
#

ye I've linked it before

#

It's based slightly on Volibear

#

at least that initial Sick As Hell "Thousand-Pierced Bear" story

#

before they made him normal again

heady kestrel
#

Yesssss

#

Love the thousand pierced bear

clear delta
#

Was thinking on my Centipede and shifters idea, but feel like it lacks something
Was basing on the ideas of destruction, purification and vendetta

heady kestrel
#

Have I shared my idea for how I was gonna do Lower Depths creatures here?

clear delta
#

Think not

heady kestrel
#

I had 3 spelled out but could probably come up with more

Each one was defined by its missing arcanum, and they all had powers based around stealing it for themselves

The 3 I had were a Life Eater, A Mind Eater and a Death Eater

The life eater was a metallic skeleton that went around doing that shit Vorniclex did at the beginning of the Kaldhiem storyline in mtg

The Mind Eater was a philosophical zombie that gained internality by eating peoples egos, he was also an evil twink with red eyes because why not

And the Death eater was a weird crystalline thing that was almost addicted to the sensation of Decay because it was something foreign to it

#

I feel like its a really fun way to play them as “terrifying existential threat mage antagonists”

clear delta
#

Evil brain eating twink vs that brain eating angel socialized by the internet

heady kestrel
#

It mentioned in mage, both 1e and 2e, that there are some lower depths monsters locked inside Atlantean ruins because they can’t die and if a sleeper accidentally breaks the seals on the tomb it becomes all Right Handed Mages on deck

clear delta
heady kestrel
#

Ooooo

mighty zephyr
#

I also love how Beast describes how the True Fae see Beasts

clear delta
#

Centipede has a virtue of being thoroughly destructive/spiteful, but a vice of gluttony
It knows a maeljin also takes centipede form. They hate each other

mighty zephyr
#

because the whole "you start at good impression with supernaturals" applies to the True Fae

#

so True Fae see you as like, a particularly cute squirrel in the garden

#

"oh cool what's this thing?"

clear delta
#

Sir Squirrel

mighty zephyr
clear delta
#

Huh think you can make a distraction for true fae using a few beasts?
Any advantage is good when attacking true fae in their home realm

mighty zephyr
#

ehhhhhhhhhh

#

Not really possible to "distract" them like that

#

in their home realm

#

They are the realm, omni-everything but bound by the rules of their Titles

clear delta
#

True

#

But this sort of thing is sorta an element of fairytales

heady kestrel
#

Weird crossover fact:

Fey Law overrules God Machine stuff, so if one of the people you are getting cover from gets kidnapped you have to rescue them or lose that bit of cover

clear delta
#

You distracted/put to sleep the wicked witch/monster

hybrid dock
#

The god machine vs fae conflict is a hilarious concept

#

Trying it’s best to sink its teeth into the fae realms or the hedge but ultimately getting pushed back repeatedly

clear delta
#

Foolhardy demons try to make bases in the hedge

heady kestrel
#

This is a common tempter thing!

#

tempters love to try to do shit like "Work with mages to see if they can get into the supernal" or "try to set up base in the underworld"

#

the god machine gave up on the underworld

#

like just straight up gave up

clear delta
heady kestrel
#

tempters are freaks

#

they are the kind of demon that gets hunted by demon hunters

clear delta
#

I love tempters and inquisitors

#

Remember one tempter having a cover just to play chess in a park

mighty zephyr
#

The Beast/Demon feud is hilarious to me

clear delta
#

Tempter-inquisitor who just wants a big happy family is a very valid character concept

heady kestrel
#

Shoutout to that genre of Inquisitors that just want to become suburban housewives
very real of them

#

yeaah

mighty zephyr
#

"I love everyone! Except that guy, fuck him"
vs
"I have no strong opinions about anyone. Except that guy, fuck him"

clear delta
clear delta
# mighty zephyr The Beast/Demon feud is hilarious to me

Specially for me
I realized my headcanon for vampires could be applied to beasts
IE, the other supernaturals' compounding effects on reality and its laws sorta resulted in them, like a glitch entity from the code updates
This would explain how beasts are "kin" to other supernaturals
So that would make beasts and god machine stuff both thing that may have risen from cosmic laws compounding/evolving something, and God Machine keeps using the myriad scientific and magic laws in its rituals

hybrid dock
clear delta
#

You know, since spirits don't care much about what names and stories you use for them
I had the idea of a mind and spirit mage that goes around founding cults and making it seem they have existed for a while, or are rediscovered
By falsifying memories and records, and inserting stories into culture

marble sorrel
#

If I play Dark Ages or Victorian vampire again, I'm very tempted to cause Maximum Headache by making a character who's a following of the ancient Egyptian faith and thinks both Sons of Osirus and Setties are Idiots.

Setties: "We are the dark serpents that oppose the sun."
Vampire: "...Apophis?"
Setties: "No, we worship set."
Vampire: "Oh...you're morons. Set guards Ra from Apophis."

vast blaze
#

What's the lowest generation you can get to in VtM 5th Edition

valid merlin
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8 I think?

mighty zephyr
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With the new book In Memoriam you can play Ancillae down to gen 7-8

vast blaze
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Pretty low, dang

mighty zephyr
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You can theoretically play down to like 4th gen

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in the core

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since there's rules for Blood Potency down that low

vast blaze
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Oho

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Didn't realize 5e had those rules

rapid glacier
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they do say in V5 that the rules for blood potency that low aren't really meant for PCs though

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and starting off at 7 or 8 has some baggage associated with it to keep you from power-gaming a bit, like forcing you to take specialities in weird skills you may not use a lot (I think Rotary Phones was one of them, even lol)

vast blaze
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Might be fun seeing about a 5th gen in modern Vampire, say that my Dark Ages 5th gen managed to survive all the way to the modern era

vast blaze
high current
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reminds me of the cover-breaking specialties thing from Demon the Descent tbh

mighty zephyr
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I mean the main thing is the game is explicit that everyone starts at the same generation by default

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If someone is low gen everyone is

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You cannot independently do so as a player

vast blaze
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Right, so it'd have to ALL be 5th gens

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Which does sound fun

mighty zephyr
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Eh, pure power fantasy games are fun in concept but rarely in execution

high current
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Yes, but also, fuck the rules, have a mixed gen coterie if that's what works for your story vvvSip
Granted I'd recommend only doing it if you're having significantly more experienced players be a gen lower than the others

short notch
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low-gen vampires trying to hold it together and maintain the Masquerade despite being able to casually tell reality to go fuck itself sounds like it has potential for entertainment

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or you could do some sorta Paranoia-style thing where they're the local power players and are pretending to be cordial while frantically stabbing each other in the back at every available opportunity

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...that would take a lot of work to set up, though, i don't think the "street-level" rules are going to be extremely useful for it

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hmmmmm...

radiant marsh
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I'm just thinking of a Bloodlines sort of thing

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Where the very presence of an inexperienced low-gen just throws a wrench into about a half dozen separate schemes and power plays by their very presence, even if the low-gen in question is mostly oblivious

mighty zephyr
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Well you're not low gen in Bloodlines

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You're a neonate

nimble gale
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you can be low gen and newly embraced if your sire was low gen

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it's kind of implied in bloodlines 1 your sire was lower generation and kind of a big deal in one way or another

high current
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iirc people did the math and the Bloodlines neonate is like 8th gen or something like that

nimble gale
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5 dots in generation at the time, yeah

mighty zephyr
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It's not entirely usable math

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The 15 blood points at chargen is a baseline used by all vampires in the game mechanically

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And previous notes and dev comments put the neonate at 10th at most

grave gulch
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Uhhh....i have no idea of how muvh 15 blood points are but how many people would ya have to feed on to get that many?

mighty zephyr
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And average of 10

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Oh wait

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1 and a half

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Average human gives 10 points

grave gulch
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vicksyThink hmm....not as much as i thought it would be

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Thanks Voy

mighty zephyr
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That's if you kill them

radiant marsh
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Ah

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I was under the impression your character was unusually powerful

mighty zephyr
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They are

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It's not a generation thing

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You're a shmuck, your sire was a shmuck, you aren't special at the start

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But then suddenly you're killing everyone and everything

radiant marsh
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I think it was misreading the '15 blood points' as 'must be gen 8'

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though even then, I don't think an 8th gen is a SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING sort of gen

mighty zephyr
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Yeah that's a powerful ancillae

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However a gen 7 is sorta not someone who just randomly goes around, has sex with a mortal, embraces them, then gets caught and executed in the span of 15 minutes

clear delta
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We're monsters, clinging to humanity is a delusion
Drain humans like soda cans

clear delta
grave gulch
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Could a vampire infect someone with any kind of blood disease or does the process of the vampire body turning blood into vitae eliminate any risks of that?

lethal idol
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There's a specific flaw for that I believe

rapid glacier
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It’s a plot point in bloodlines iirc where someone is purposefully carrying a plague over bites and feeding

grave gulch
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vicksyW huh...interesting

lethal idol
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From the V5 wiki:

image.png
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These are from Forbidden Religions, a book which I have not read

grave gulch
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vicksyNoted i see...i can see that being interesting for a game

rapid glacier
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Yeah I think without the flaw it’s kind of a GM fiat thing that can happen but the flaw makes it much more likely

grave gulch
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I imagine you could get other vampires angry if you got every mortal sick

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Not because they care but because ur contaminating their food

lethal idol
rapid glacier
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Yeah for me it’s “hmmmm I dunno that’d be weird (scribbles notes down furiously)”

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Most of my major plot points in my games tend to be cornball theories about what’s going on that players come up with that sound cool and I slowly develop into plot threads

lethal idol
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The forbidden technique!

rapid glacier
velvet sparrow
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And Vampires don't like when mortals start looking into things because they might find Vampires

grave gulch
high current
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New Wave Requiem, I think?

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(there's no specific mechanics associated with it, afaik, but it's noted that it exists and vampires can catch/spread it like any other blood-borne illness)

gleaming wave
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ventrue and gangrel in my vtr game about to have a level 3 bloodbond and someone called it "Radioactive Yuri"