World of Darkness

[clear delta]

It's got a good hook and themes
Hubris, clinging to the past but being corroded/consumed by it

[chilly vault]

I like it! You may want to take a look at the Cult of the Doomsday Clock, they're ... I don't want to say similar, but also a case of time magic going wonky and the Abyss getting involved

They're in Legacies: the Sublime

[grave gulch]

I might

[clear delta]

The cult of doomsday clock are out to tear time apart. They have a head quarters in the abyss
All the higher ups ||have been erased and replaced by abyssal creatures born from time paradoxes||

[grave gulch]

Ooh

Imma steal

[fair jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1248108958627921933/1287496052232028262/image.png?ex=66f1c1a3&is=66f07023&hm=82310ab1429d2c43a3ebca0da27bde41a52a8a9f551e8c32b532f87b64fb3b18&

[grave gulch]

he kind of is

hunting changelings

[clear delta]

Network zero hunter

[grave gulch]

i'm having a hard time coming up with conditions for my game

[midnight grotto]

Watched Saw for the first time and I gotta say it's a perfect mirror to the original NWoD books aesthetically. Early 2000s urban horror had a specific vibe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13YMrJLV4sE Like this is a parking garage that could only exist in a horror scenario. Hightened reality.

[dusky ledge]

If anyone's well-versed in v5 game balance, I cooked up a little something for my neonate. The basic idea is just that Blood Sorcery has plenty for melee/brawl characters, but almost nothing to be used in combat for ranged characters. I used the guidelines in Blood Sigils and I think it's alright

Acus Sanguinis

Level 3 Ritual
Ingredients: Silver needle
Process: The caster draws sigils on their arms with their Blood, and later activates them by inserting the needle into their flesh; shaping the sigils into deadly projectiles.
System: The sorcerer makes the ritual roll whenever they insert the needle. As an action on each of their turns for the rest of the scene, they may then magically hurl a razor-sharp Blood construct at a target, rolling Wits + Blood Sorcery for the attack. This attack deals non-halved superficial damage to both mortals and vampires.

[mighty zephyr]

I don't think this would be a ritual would it?

[dusky ledge]

I mean it probably could be reformatted as a power instead, but I've got a few reasons for not doing so

[grave gulch]

ok

now with the prologue done

i'll start working on the territories of my mage orders and other supernaturals

Cause i like having crossovers

Im using masquerade stuff for my vamps, apocalypse for werewolves

I have a thin blood npc who hangs out with the mages at their pub

He doesnt do much he's just there for like "oh shit vampires are real?"

[dusky ledge]

One of these days I'll look at Mage

For now though I'm worried that

1. Current edition might feel clunky to me
2. I'll get obsessed and be in pain over my inability to find a group

[clear delta]

Old mage?

[grave gulch]

[mighty zephyr]

Which Mage?

[dusky ledge]

Good question

I have actively avoided learning anything for fear of the Fixation Rabbithole

[mighty zephyr]

There is two mage lines

Awakening and Asencion

Awakening is CofD
Ascension is oWoD

[dusky ledge]

Not but for real, the only WoD stuff I've looked at in-depth is v5. I've seen people mention CofD and oWoD but I have no idea what they actually are

[grave gulch]

You come to the right place

[clear delta]

Owod mage is "reality is wathever people believe in, no single truth", though there's some contradictions and issues in that.

[orchid void]

oWoD is the original game line and metaplot/style. V5 is the most recent edition of it.

Chronicles of Darkness/nWoD is a line of games written in the aughts- similar starting points as oWoD but different mechanics

That’s it. That’s how that works

[clear delta]

Cofd mage is "there is a capital t Truth, but good luck grasping all of it". Everyone does magic their own way still, as many metaphors can hold truth

[orchid void]

Mage the Ascension is POST MODERN MAGICK
Mage the Awakening is MODERN SORCERY

these are the key vibes

[dusky ledge]

Yeah this is about what I've heard, and what caught my attention. Lore-wise "reality is fake" is a solid opener, and mechanically "you can kinda do whatever you want*" is also enticing

[orchid void]

Give awakening a read!!

It’s one of my favorites and is more playable than my actual fave, Promethean

[clear delta]

I mean, cofd mage is also "reality is fake"

It's just that owod mage has truth be belief, while cofd has truth not conform to belief, and a chunk of it

Is beyond understanding

Unless you ascend and lose all humanity

[dusky ledge]

Okay another key piece of my TTRPG preferences to weigh here: AD&D is the antithesis of joy /opinion

I don't like needlessly crunchy systems. Lancer's a great example of crunch I do like, as it more often elevates games rather than slowing them down to thumb through countless tables and graphs

[orchid void]

Yeah awakening says “Reality as constructed and manipulated by the archonic forces of the demiurge to remove Beauty, Truth, and Mystery from the lives of mankind”

fuck the seers, as they say

[dusky ledge]

I just know older systems tend to be a fair bit more bogged down, so I've been partially just waiting for... What would it be called, M5? To drop

[clear delta]

Both versions of Mage let you be any sort of mage you want to be.

Also, owod Mage 20th anniversary edition is considered to have a lot of issues

So yeah, M5 is likely to be better

[dusky ledge]

Yeah, not surprising given what I've heard about oWoD Vampire

[grave gulch]

[midnight grotto]

Awakening has better antagonists imo but also I'm deeply biased

[heady kestrel]

I also adore awakening

I was trying to get a game off the ground and it didn’t work and I don’t even know why

I think about the seers a lot
I find them fascinating

[chilly vault]

Which is fascinating because the Seers are much more like ... evil for the sake of evil?

They should feel more cartoonish by all accounts but they feel creepily believable in the way they're actually written

[heady kestrel]

I love mixing some Sad Fucks in with the seers like Mnms in my trail mix

[chilly vault]

And the Abyss is actually turbohell full of ultrademons but it is those things in a fashion that's very real and familiar

I dunno Awakening was always very real to me and has gotten realer with time

[midnight grotto]

People who see that the world has been ruined by horrible god-kings and think "ah, so there's a winning side"

[grave gulch]

omg

imma have a life wizard who heals ya by stabbing ya it's their dedicated tool

they do it for shit and giggles

[clear delta]

The dev DaveB said that after some thinking, he feels more bad about the seers' loved ones than the seers themselves
It's awful for them

[grave gulch]

[high current]

(Banks from Tactical Breach Wizards. she's a necromedic. she can cure any ailment, as long as it started in the last hour, but she has to kill you first )

[grave gulch]

neat

[clear delta]

Tamer of Blood that takes your blood as an yantra to heal you
And can heal you over long distances

[grave gulch]

btw wax

which would be better to introduce new mages to mage society? silver ladder or free council wizard?

[grave gulch]

oooh

[clear delta]

Hm. Not sure

[clear delta]

Tamer of blood can have a lot of fun working in an hospital

[grave gulch]

i can imagine!

[high current]

Silver Ladder probably; it depends on how you're running the groups but, Free Council is generally still kind of separate from the rest of the Pentacle
for reference iirc, according to a post by DaveB that I'm not sure I still have a screenshot of but vaguely recall, Free Council is usually the largest Order, followed by a tie between Mysterium and Arrow, then Silver Ladder, then Guardians, and while all 5 orders will show up to consilium meetings and stuff, the Free Council is more likely than the other 4 to host its own meetings and have its own internal rules and structures in addition to the wider consilium's stuff

[grave gulch]

i see thanks Rats!

[short quiver]

Also note that it's often a Guardian who meets them first
They make keeping eyes out for Awakenings and making contact with the newbies part of their job

They're still the smallest Order by a good bit because they mostly point the new Magi at another Order instead of trying to recruit them

[grave gulch]

i was thinking of making the wizard part of the silver ladder

[clear delta]

Guardians may try to direct mages to specific Orders as favors to those orders

[grave gulch]

Right

[grave gulch]

So they could legit just tell the ladder guy to go grab em

[high current]

also worth noting, Guardians might be the smallest order in actual numbers, but they'll appear to be larger, because basically everyone in the order should have at least 1 alternate identity

[grave gulch]

they protect secrets right?

are they also the ones to deal with abyss mages and etc?

[dusky ledge]

It's Vampire night

[grave gulch]

shank a tremere

[clear delta]

Diablerise those tremere

[high current]

everyone does, tbh, although Guardians and Arrows are the ones most likely to get into conflict with scelesti(Guardians for the secret ones, Arrows for the more obvious ones)

Guardians are basically the Pentacle's secret police, enforcing the Pax Arcana and any other laws established by the consilium's charter or w/e

[grave gulch]

does the book talk about the Pax Arcana?

[clear delta]

The adamantine arrow in Tokyo are traumatized by all the abyssal stuff they fight

[grave gulch]

i can see that happening

also i can see fricking street level hunters going for an abyssal creature and meeting their demise since there's so much of it in tokyo

[grave gulch]

what kind of neighborhood would seers of the throne live in?

[heady kestrel]

A fancy, upper crust penthouse
the suburbs
A rural town, where they act as a Sherrif or a Priest

[grave gulch]

cool cool

[grave gulch]

what about the silver ladder? arent they kind of fancy also?

[mighty zephyr]

Silver Ladder go all over

The Seers are written with the idea that serving their masters results in temporal reward in the form of money, fame, influence, etc.

Meanwhile Pentacle Mages don't have that, and thus usually skirt to being in any real walk of life

[grave gulch]

i see, so not as fancy

i'm trying to figure out territories for each group i wanna have like some stuff for the players to epxlore the town for!

so you mean that Silver ladder wouldnt really have a specific kind of place? does the same apply to the other orders?

[grave gulch]

ok i figured it out

[dusky ledge]

Bestie I hate to break it to you but I'm playing one

[velvet sparrow]

Ah, so you have more reason than most

[dusky ledge]

Update: said Tremere mentioned their aspirations for Primogen and the more Anarch-aligned coterie is Not happy

[high hornet]

Eh, just point out that having an anarch friendly primogen is always a good thing for them.

It's like fighter groups who get given a bunch of lovely weapons by governments, they love doing terrible things with each other

[dusky ledge]

Yeah, that's the point they're trying to make

One of their convictions is "power is safety," so they're very much approaching it as "if I can get this position of power, I can protect all of you"

[clear delta]

"Without power, you can protect no one, much less yourself"

[red flower]

My group is trying to decide which RPG of WoD to try.

Hunter, Vampire, or Mage.

First timers for the systems.

But not to RPG’s.

[mighty zephyr]

Cross out Mage

It is a terrible introduction to WoD

[clear delta]

The old WoD or new one (aka CofD)?

[orchid void]

Yeah truly

Stick with vampire for first timers

[red flower]

We just tried to make VTM V5 characters.

What the fuck us wrong with the books formatting?
It jumps around constantly.

[versed zodiac]

Vampire 5e's book was designed!

[red flower]

Everyone left

No characters were made…

[orchid void]

they’ve never been good at layout,,,,

[versed zodiac]

That shit is unironically one of the things that makes me not want to revisit V5

[high hornet]

Please examine here a small paragraph of what happened in our game. I will be taking questions and accept what I am posting is headache inducing.

[grave gulch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1014538083905052703.gif?size=64&quality=lossless

[high hornet]

Keep making friends with powerful people

managed to make friends with a half-nephilim hunter

As a vampire

[grave gulch]

would a ghouled mage instantly loose their ability to use magic?

[clear delta]

In ascension, yes

[grave gulch]

not in awakening?

[high current]

no, ghoul mages can still do magic

in both versions

there's sort of an entire group of ghoul mages employed by the sabbat in V20 who use the pillar/foundation system from Dark Ages Mage

[grave gulch]

i might use that

[high current]

the mechanics probably wouldnt really mean much in the context of awakening tbh

[high hornet]

We didn't ghoul him but is good question yes

[high current]

cause the pillar/foundation thing is basically, instead of the 9 spheres and arete, each tradition had a different set of pillars(usually 4-5 of them) and a foundation stat; they functioned more or less the same, except the pillars had broader applications iirc

group in question is the Itarajana, from The Black Hand: A Guide to the Tal'Mahe'Ra(a V20 book about the inner core of the Sabbat, basically)

functionally, they're just mages, except their pillars dont give them any control over Matter or Time

[grave gulch]

i'm thinking more about the fact that it would be a problem

[high current]

ye ghoul mages have the potential to be a serious threat to non-ghoul mages

[grave gulch]

are ghouls also enslaved to their masters in chronicles?

i mean that probably doesnt matter since im using masquerade stuff

[mighty zephyr]

Yes

Blood bond still exists

[grave gulch]

neat

[grave gulch]

ok here's an idea

like this is mostly brainstorming i think it's kind of stupid but here goes

thyrsus mage developed a magic drug that uses vampire blood, he changes it in a way that you get some of the benefits without risking a blood bond on top of that you wont really become addicted to it as fast as you would if u were taking vamp blood

drawback being your body and mind taking a heavy toll after the effects wear off

[grave gulch]

@clear delta @chilly vault @mighty zephyr i would like to hear what you have to say about this

[chilly vault]

I like it because it raises ethical questions

And questions of hubris

[clear delta]

Same as gkathellar
Also love me som3 blood magic

[chilly vault]

How are you getting this blood? Is the harm it causes worth it? Does reducing the speed of the addiction really make it okay or will it simply make people incautious? What sort of unforeseen effects may be tied into the drug's production, or to its use?

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah I like it

[grave gulch]

thanks folks

[grave gulch]

also i imagine that's something the guardians would have a certain problem with

[grave gulch]

i think imma be doing the pub crawl thing as a way to introduce each mage to their orders silver ladder and free council would have some for sure

and the adamantine arrow has one in London as well

if the blood drug is something that guardians would have a problem with i would like to use that as a way to introduce the player who wants to join them

i have no idea for what i should do for the mysterium tho

[grave gulch]

if anyone could give any suggestions it would help a lot

[high hornet]

What's the mysterium about?

[grave gulch]

they are basically collectors of knowledge, the book also describes them as "a mystery religion devoted to magic"

[short quiver]

They're the most straightforwardly "wizard"-ish Mages.
All about finding and preserving magical knowledge and power (which do tend to overlap).
Most direct way to incorporate them would, IMO, be that a local Mysterium is the resident expert on something the PCs need to know, but wants something in return ("knowledge must have a price" being one of their central tenants)

[grave gulch]

Ooh i could get them involved on the blood thingy

[high hornet]

I'm always a fan of the knowledge seekers being very...

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-gif-18564553

[grave gulch]

@short quiver ya think a magic drug going around would be something the guardians would want to investigate?

[strong bronze]

Here's a dumb idea

How about a vampire:the masquerade videogame with a day/night cycle

But to not make day purely a danger since that can be somewhat frustrating and also not a nonfactor since daytime SHOULD be a problem as a vamp,you get the option to turn any npc into a ghoul

And during the day,you get to play as your ghoul(s),doing daytime chores

[high current]

i think doing something like that would be Life 3/Mind 3, so for reference your Mystery will probably have an opacity of 4-5(3 base, +1 because there are multiple arcana involved, optional +1 because it's central to the story)
the guardians probably would want someone to investigate it, if for no other reason than to make sure that the maker/users aren't getting too involved with vampires

[grave gulch]

I can probably get one into one of the mage pubs then! I have a thin blood npc who's best friends with one of the mage owners he's someone they would want to talk to

[grave gulch]

Nice! We have a pub crawl a mistery and a way to introduce every mage

[mighty zephyr]

Deciding I may run a short dark ages thing for the htp crew

[grave gulch]

nice!

[clear delta]

Hilda feels like good inspiration for werewolf the forsaken. Season 3 had one creature that felt like a former pangaean, or an idigam

[grave gulch]

what does beat mean here?

[mighty zephyr]

You gain a beat when you do that

[grave gulch]

right thanks Voy

[grave gulch]

aaa

i'm not 100% satisfied with the pub crawl idea

[grave gulch]

what could be an interesting long term consequence from using too much of a drug made out of vamp blood?

aside from getting addicted

[high current]

considering iirc part of your plan is removing the blood bond part, my best idea for other consequences would be basically weaker versions of the various vampire banes--a thirst for blood in general, a minor aversion to sunlight(maybe 1B/hour instead of what vamps normally deal with), or becoming prone to fits of anger similar to a vampire's frenzy

[velvet sparrow]

Another alternative could be opening yourself to Weird Abyssal Shit

[grave gulch]

i had a couple ideas from what yall said

the abyssal stuff sounds neat but what if instead it opened you up to bad supernal stuff such as things from stygia?

cause like you are still ghouling yourself even if for a shorter amount of time

and the bane things is interesting if i did go throught that route...what if it was something that gets worse over time?

[clear delta]

The symptoms get imtense while you go through withdrawal, and you take some damage over time until your body re-adapts to being without it

Also. Maybe people who use the drug attract some species that preys on vampires. Like weird flies, leeches, internal parasites

[grave gulch]

could be some supernal thing that preys on them, what if it sort of messed with your nimbus?

[grave gulch]

i love brainstorming with other peeps

[clear delta]

Weird hungry larvae that scour people?

Huh. The hungry caterpillar again. Can pilot net ever escape it?

[grave gulch]

never

and yeah that could work

i'm thinking like larvae of supernal flies

even tho vitae is something that is alive we are still taking it out from an undead creature

[clear delta]

Yup

Maybe the mage who started this scheme disregards them
And now we have a bunch of hungry grown flies

[grave gulch]

i think that could be worth a condition if a player actually goes ahead and starts using it

and i just know one of them is going for it

[high current]

could also yoink the strix from VtR

shadow owls that possess corpses(vampires count as corpses) and suck blood(including vitae iirc)

[grave gulch]

sounds cool

[clear delta]

Strix think vampires are too human

Instead of embracing being monsters

[grave gulch]

that's neat

[high current]

fun part is i think strix would fall into a weird zone of being covered by both Death and Spirit

actually i guess mostly just Death

[grave gulch]

@high current can you hit yourself with your own nimbus tilt?

[high current]

I think so?

[grave gulch]

[high current]

i cant remember if the book says otherwise anywhere and im not at home so i cant check but it would make sense that you could choose whether or not to hit yourself with it

[grave gulch]

fair

[grave gulch]

well we had to cancel today's session

guess im getting that extra time afterall!

[high hornet]

heckers

[clear delta]

Idea. The gate has no goal anymore. He's just pure ideological emptiness, doing things to our world out of habit, instinctivr reaction, and mere consequence of her actions in the Abyss

[grave gulch]

i could see that happening to more than just the gate

[high hornet]

I haven't played Mage yet, but for some reason I feel like this song applies to most...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkHMKUhsBtU

[grave gulch]

so

the silver ladder can be very agressive with their recruiting

but if they find that a candidate will be more at home in a different order they can very well contact an allied mage from said order to take a look at the mage in question

their book says this is also a way for them to keep friendly relations with other orders

that makes me think

i could have everyone be part of the silver ladder at the beggining of the game and slowly direct players towards the other orders

[high current]

based on a quick skim btw, i think normally you're affected by your own nimbus as any other character(ie, if its strenght is higher than your resolve), but anybody aware of a nimbus flaring can subject themselves to the tilt regardless of their resolve, so you can always just choose to take your own tilt

(granted, the book specifies 'witness', but, if you wanna subject yourself to your own tilt i see no reason you shouldn't be able to)

[grave gulch]

got it

[high current]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-tabletop-roleplaying-game/description

curseborne kickstarter is up and already 150% funded

[tardy grove]

What's this?

looks very WoD-like

[high current]

it's Onyx Path's legally distinct new urban fantasy setting

because Paradox won't let them do anything else for oWoD or CofD anymore apparently

and it being WoD-like is why i posted it in #1161696306100715550

[clear delta]

Paradox is insane

[grave gulch]

i'm also insane

[high hornet]

good

[grave gulch]

"In general, the Silver Ladder does assist the mage
who is unhappy in his current situation to find a new
order within the society of the Awakened, usually
by arranging meetings with members of other orders
the Silver Ladder suspects will be a better fit for the
mage in question."

perfect

[chilly vault]

The Silver Ladder is actually pretty cool, it’s weird

On first blush you sort of assume they just want to be Wizard Government but they’re actually sort of broadly interested in rational hierarchies

[short quiver]

It was really clever, when the Silver Ladder book came out
see the Silver Ladder in charge of the sample setting (Boston) is a tyrannical Silver Ladder called the Nemean
and when the Silver Ladder book comes out, it talks about how there are three sorts of archetypes they see a Mage can follow: the Stag (proud and impressive but ultimately prey to those stronger than itself), the Lion (strong and powerful but a danger to the people under its 'care'), and the Sage (the ideal)
so it might have been retroactive but in that light naming yourself after an invincible lion makes a statement

[high current]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_hHkur9yHI

Going live in 5 mins

[heady kestrel]

Alright
So this might be a weird complaint

But is anyone sad that curseborn are basically just classic horror monsters again instead of leaning into the idea of Curses.

I guess I am just craving something stranger

Like if you wanna cast off the chains of being tied to the Of Darkness brand

do that

Give us a hidden world of monsters based off Midas and Arachne and Medusa

With vampire/werewolf adjacent stuff being an option I guess

A hidden world of frog princes and spinning wheel princesses

Etc

[grave gulch]

i'm happy

we played hunter today

i made my players almost shit themselves

without actually trying to kill them

[high hornet]

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/world-darkness-month-darkness-2024-bundle-renegade-game-studios-books

[dense vault]

Hmm, bundles got some things I already own, but at the same time, werewolf and new stuff...

Fuck it why not

[open roost]

Incredible form.

[pearl zenith]

Hey is there a good wiki for World of Darkness or does anyone know the URL modifier to turn off all the bloat on Fandom

[dense vault]

There's the paradox ones but they're only for the fifth editions.

[olive anvil]

Question- what’s VtM (V5) like to play? How does it feel?

Also, does anyone know what Rivals is like

[velvet sparrow]

What is Rivals?

VtM is... What do you mean by 'feel'?

[olive anvil]

The card game

Feel, as in, like, the vibes from actual play

What’s the experience like

Ive heard so many mixed things about it

And how are the rules in general? They work well?

[versed zodiac]

V5 is fun but the hunger dice come up a lot

[grave gulch]

[grave gulch]

would it be an act of hubris to use awakened magic to make warhammer(tabletop) games more exciting?

was thinking of having a cabal who owns a game store...

[radiant marsh]

Define more exciting

Are we talking heighten emotion or "Basically IRL miniature Dawn of War"

[grave gulch]

miniature dawn of war miniatures actually walking around shooting laser beams, making noise etc

granted the lasers wouldnt actually damage anything

[radiant marsh]

I think it would fall under 'Using magic for petty reasons'

So it's an act of hubris, but it's not a major one?

[grave gulch]

probably not something that goes against the lex magica then

But something that would be looked down upon by some mages

[radiant marsh]

In 1e MtAw it'd be the same level of Wisdom violation as, say, using Space to get a beer from the fridge without leaving your couch.

[short quiver]

& the Ladder think that this sort of shit is humanity's birthright

[mighty zephyr]

It is a game that's about being a vampire and the most successful Vampire game about it so far

V5 is what WoD has always wanted to be, a dramatic, story-driven game about being a cursed and wretched predator

instead of being a crunch-heavy game relying on sick builds

[chilly vault]

I like VtR better >_>

[grave gulch]

That's fair u scary Otter

[grave gulch]

So here's the plan

During their first mistery the mage party has broken a couple of the lex magica rules

Since they are new their wont br any severe punishment

But the local consilium will sentence them to formal education under an order

That order will be the silver ladder

Reason being that the silver ladder is also capable of directing them towards different orders!

@chilly vault @clear delta what do you think?

[chilly vault]

Seems solid!

[clear delta]

Seems solid

[grave gulch]

[grave gulch]

🚪

[short quiver]

he wants you to invite him in
It's only polite

[grave gulch]

i'm nota gonna give up my blood!

[radiant marsh]

Vhaaat? Zat is silly pants! You don't need zat blood!

[grave gulch]

how to a difirentiate Free council and Silver Ladder politics? mage server says they are very close in Europe and i wanna make them orders seem different in my game

[short quiver]

Silver Ladder are very hierarchical, Free Council are democratic.

[grave gulch]

right

[mighty zephyr]

The free council will most likely have something more akin to a parliamentary government

Where everyone gets a say

Also it's a bunch of people with a strong leaning towards fanaticism do people are gonna fucking kick the shit out of each other sometimes

[grave gulch]

oh

[grave gulch]

What's the chronicles ghost game called?

[patent stirrup]

IWRC that's ghiest

[grave gulch]

Do you happen to know what the game is about? Like...Changeling is about recovering from abuse, Promethean is about trying to be human and a lot of dysphoria, what"s the Ghiest thing?

[patent stirrup]

Honestaly we don't remebr much about itother then it exiesting and a lot of at thetime chronicals fans thinkig was the odd one out as it's only relay humanity meter ping was murder.

[grave gulch]

I see

[short quiver]

Geist is, like
You died, and then something like a ghost made you a deal to bring you back, for a while, and they get to ride along for it

[grave gulch]

is the Geist back for a purpose or simply to try and live again?

[short quiver]

The latter. You're only stuck on your unfinished business if you want to be.
Vampires have a Requiem that they're doomed to play out, but in Geist you have a Second Chance and it's up yo you what you're gonna do with it.

You can see ghosts now, though, so that might have an influence on what you do with your time. Although you can ignore them, for a while

[grave gulch]

So ur basically someone who couldnt accept their own death

And now you are facing the consequences for that refusal

[radiant marsh]

Yes.

And most of your motivation going forward is both how you deal with that, and what you do now that your entire existence is basically intimately connected with death and the dead

Notably a lot of the Geist archetypes are based on psychological responses to near-death (at least in 1e)

Like the guys who come out of it wanting to live life to the fullest

Or the ones who immediately decide to help people with similar problems

Or the ones who see their purpose as to punish those 'unworthy' of wasting their lives.

[chilly vault]

Sin-Eaters can easily be among the least mopey of the WoD splats

They’re pretty powerful, they don’t have much cause to fear death, and the geist possessing them is only like 20% ancient eldritch underworld god

[mighty zephyr]

Geist is like Shaman King

[grave gulch]

i do not know shaman king

[grave gulch]

what does mopey mean?

[chilly vault]

Sad and letting everyone know it through their behavior

[short quiver]

despondent. weepy.

I guess "angsty" would be the classic WoD answer

(Wraith had an "Angst" stat)

[chilly vault]

Sin-eaters have it pretty good as supernaturals go

[grave gulch]

i see...

[chilly vault]

Their lives are not without problems and death is traumatic but

[grave gulch]

someone said that the game is also about second chances and regrets

i like that

[chilly vault]

Kinda the default geist story is "you help ghosts pass away" so ... yeah

[grave gulch]

i liked the premise of wod's ghost game but since old wod games are usually kind of wanky i decided to take a look at geist

the thing about accepting your own death and moving on

i think i would like to plan a brief story for geist some day

[clear delta]

Geist 2e has more purpose

Your krewe is a cult you run, with living and dead followers

Each krewe archetype is a general purpose

• Justice
• Safeguarding memories
• Eliminating regret
  Abd so on. You get rituals for your cult, like helping the living and the dead interact

Your geist not only wants to experience life, they have a past that can be explored and help return their humanity

Exploring your geist's remembrance makes your stronger, makes them less likely to flip out and go berserk, and gives you access to their skills and merits I think

There are clear endgames

• The geist and you deal with all your goals, entering a transcendent state that lets you pass on at any time
• Your krewe becomes strong enough that you can challenge the Cthonic Gods for control of the underworld, so you can make your vision of a good afterlife come true

[grave gulch]

Wax is an early bird good morning

[clear delta]

Each player character is defined by a Burden (replacing the Thresholds of 1e). The Burden is basically why you didn't let go of this world, and defines your power affinities

• The Abiding want to leave a mark. Have the Caul, the Memoria and their signature, the Tomb (Good at building stuff)
• The Bereaved want to find someone. Curse, Shroud and Oracle (obvious what it does)
• The Hungry don't want to let go of what they treasured in life. Caul, Marionette and Boneyard (Take over and control an area, impose Old Laws on it and detect transgressions)
• The Kindly want to atone for regrets. Shroud, Marionette and Dirge (cause emotions with song, do support effects like helping ghost manifest)
• The Vengeful want justice for how they were wronged. Curse, Memoria and Rage (Cause damage! At high level you cause a damaging environment)

[clear delta]

Good morning

[grave gulch]

Geist sounds really cool

[midnight grotto]

I'll be frank, I much preferred the old Thresholds. Yeah they were kinda bluntly materialist but they invited you to think up different nasty ways to die and skew them in different angles. The Burdens just felt vague to me, though you've done a much better job of summing them up than the book did.

[clear delta]

The thresholds are interesting and have good art, but Burdens fit well the themes and are cool too

Oh, Fox, the 1e thresholds were based on cause of death, now the role of representing that lies on the keys, which also work differently in 2e

You get a key that matches your cause of death, and one for your geist's. You gain extra key from items made magical by ghostly phenomena

Using your key replenishes plasm. You can use when activating a power to aid its roll. Using a key inflicts a curse, and you can't use it until the curse resolves

[clear delta]

When a geist flips out and goes berserk, they use the keys as influences

Keys are cool. Wonder if the Key of Disease also counts mental illnesses

The elemental keys also tend to have associations beyond the literal element

Key of cold wind, considering it includes executions and its Doom can be dispelled early by revealing a damaging personal secret, seems connected to isolation and rejection
Key of grave dirt includes deaths in places filled with history

[grave gulch]

My wizard game wont happen for another week

[high hornet]

I managed to convince a mage to join my cool friends group in vampire

They keep describing us as "looney toons" which I don't know is good or bad

Either way, mage friend

[grave gulch]

i like the looney toons

maybe is something good

maybe you remind him of his long gone childhood

[high hornet]

He's over 100 so that's more like middle age for him

[grave gulch]

[high hornet]

Half angel mage

And I show up like

https://tenor.com/view/looney-tunes-bugs-bunny-crazy-gif-18958406

[grave gulch]

hehe

[grave gulch]

are thin bloods a thing in vampire the requiem? @chilly vault

[clear delta]

Requiem has some improperly embraced vampires who aren't part of the vampire society and lose all blood overnight

No wait, over the day

Yup, the revenants

They happen sometimes when vampires dream humans

They can be properly embraced by any vampire, curing their condition. Until that is done, they're clanless

[mighty zephyr]

There's also Dhampir

Who are half-vampies whose powers work off thematica

[grave gulch]

Can they do human stuff still?

[clear delta]

Oh, vampire moms need to drink a lot of blood right? For the pregnancy

[mighty zephyr]

No

It can happen any number of ways

And it doesn't go into exact detail

Just that an undead having a child is abominant

[orchid void]

I always liked the ones that are bait for the clan that produced em

[chilly vault]

No, specifically because the bloodline is not weakening as it gets farther from Cain

Cain is not a thing

[grave gulch]

[chilly vault]

In VtR elders are powerful because they have hundreds of years of experience, resources, and supernatural cultivation at their disposal

And in some cases they have leveraged that to evolve into truly unique monstrosities

(Still vampiric, mind, but)

Also if you survived to that age you probably have that certain je ne sais quoi

[grave gulch]

neat

[chilly vault]

There’s a book uh … Night Horrors Immortal Sinners? @orchid void is that the one with the wormpire?

(Would you still love me if I was a hideous vampire worm)

[grave gulch]

Hit me with anything that has crossover value

[chilly vault]

I think you could transfer the horrible mutant thing to VtM pretty reasonably

[grave gulch]

probably!

Im mostly using vtm lore for my crossovers simply because im more familiar with it

[chilly vault]

The fun thing about VtR is that you don’t need to know a ton of lore

[grave gulch]

That's neat

Also helpful

[chilly vault]

Anyway, NWoD is my particular poison

[grave gulch]

I can tell

Thanks for all the info gk and friends

Imma go bed now bye bye

[clear delta]

Predators from wereeolf has a vampiric worm

[high current]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/whitewolf/images/a/ae/Tremere_White_Worm.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20161226183832

[grave gulch]

[mighty zephyr]

Oh

It's the Nosferatu clan book you're probably thinking of

For the vampire worm

[spice abyss]

No, Werewolf also has a vampire worm.

[grave gulch]

[mighty zephyr]

Where the origin story for the nosferatu was a group of human refugees banished to the darkest cave where they found the corpse of a worm God and devoured it to become the first vampires

[grave gulch]

Does it look like a worm?

[high current]

vtr's clan origins are neat, considering its technically just 5 distinct breeds of supernatural creature going through convergent evolution until they're essentially just 5 flavors of the same thing

(6 if you count the julii, and i think there were others)

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah there was more clans

[radiant marsh]

Some of those are the classic nWoD Multiple Choice Origin Story, though

Like VII and Belial's Brood being clans

Or was BB a bloodline

[clear delta]

Also there are vampiric creatures not considered vampires

[radiant marsh]

It's been a while since I read the book

[spice abyss]

Then there's things that the Kindred love to look at and go "You're not a vampire"

[radiant marsh]

I just remember that they were written explicitly so "I was embraced as one/turned into one but left" was not a thing that could actually happen

[clear delta]

And a vampire can evolve out of being a vampire, and become some other spook

[high current]

related note, Curseborne seems to be going for a similar vibe with the Hungry families; the manuscript we got today doesn't give definite origins for all of them, but the Gaki originated in Japan(and named themselves after hungry ghosts), the Bathorites originate in Hungary(with Erzsebet Bathory), Iscariots descend from Judas, and Vorare descend from someone that made a pact with a demon

[clear delta]

Vorare
Bruh

[radiant marsh]

VtR 2e in a nutshell

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b3043nB7vtQ

Urgh, just let a meme video be a meme video and don't add stupid crap onto the end of it kthx

[clear delta]

Anyway, vampires are fun as weird predatory eevees

[high current]

'we need a name for our demon-based vampire family'
'people associate demons with the latin language, just call them a latin word that lines up with devouring shit who gives a fuck'

thats how i imagine they got to that name

[radiant marsh]

I am not aware of the connotation, but I'm afraid to google it. 😛

[versed zodiac]

literally means "to devour" in Latin

[high current]

im assuming waxmask's reaction was because of 'vore' and the connotations surrounding that

[clear delta]

Yeah

It really just a silly "they have tge name of a fetish" joke

[orchid void]

I thought it was that the Brothers Wurm, three vampires of unknown providence, set about digging into the earth until they found one of the wormspawned halfmen whelped by the Gods of the Hollow Earth, whom they pulled to the surface and then drank dry to create the line of Nosferatu

[grave gulch]

[clear delta]

Oh, thought they had eaten a princesd

[mighty zephyr]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2402280/Werewolf_The_Apocalypse__The_Book_of_Hungry_Names/

Steam

Werewolf: The Apocalypse — The Book of Hungry Names

You and your shattered werewolf pack must save the living Earth with Rage and spirit! In this interactive novel with hundreds of choices, can you defeat a Wyrm Spirit that manifests as a lie that you want to believe?Werewolf: The Apocalypse — The Book of Hungry Names is an interactive novel by Kyle Marquis set in the World of Darkness. It's enti...

Price

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Recommendations

118

▶ Play video

On sale if anyone wants iiiit

[high hornet]

During today's vampire session I called someone "the George W Bush of magic" and was threatened to be lit on fire

I enjoy being able to use slightly modern day insults

it's useful

[grave gulch]

wowie

[high hornet]

To be fair I deserved it for that comment

[chilly vault]

This is really the highlight of urban fantasy

[high hornet]

It really is

I suggest using the insult it's particularly devastating

[grave gulch]

I need a british version of it

[high hornet]

Oh a british version? Easy

"Magic Margaret Thatcher"

It's a while older but it's a painful one

She used to be known as "The Iron Lady" or "Magaret Thatcher Milk Snatcher" so it's good if anyone's being particularly draconian and penny pinching

She also fucked over a bunch of miners and- you know what if I listed Maggy's crimes I'll be here all night

[grave gulch]

[high hornet]

What year is your campaign set in?

[grave gulch]

2022

[high hornet]

If it's recent you could call someone "Boris Johnson" if they seem scatterbrained, bumbling or dim-witted

yeah that should work

[grave gulch]

I made count binface into a silver ladder wizard

[high hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/boris-boris-johnson-confused-huh-what-gif-17599743

he literally looks like this

[grave gulch]

Heh

[high hornet]

So, if anyone is known for rather unfortunate sexual misadventures you can also call them "David Cameron", who is also known as ||"Pig-Fucker Cameron"|| due to... well... ||fucking a severed pig head||

There also used to be a political party called The Monster Raving Loony Party

disbanded unfortunately

This was them attending the annual man vs horse race in llanwrtyd, wales

[grave gulch]

Oh dear

[high hornet]

Aaaare your players british?

Because it will effect whether or not they take "Tony Blair" as an insult

[grave gulch]

They are not haha

The game takes place in london tho

[high hornet]

They Boris or Margaret thatcher might be best

[grave gulch]

[chilly vault]

I try not to judge people by their appearance but there are times when that appearance seems to be an outward manifestation of their souls, as is the case with Boris Johnson or Dick Cheney. Given this is MtAw, you could make that literal.

[high hornet]

Boris Johnson's soul is uncomplicated

[grave gulch]

[short quiver]

Johnson also does that on purpose.
Like, if he's on a set he'll check his hair and fuck it up if it looks like something a normal person might do

[high hornet]

A disgusting toad of a man who exaggerates his bumbling idiocy to hide his actual stupidity and casual cruelty

you know. A politician.

[grave gulch]

I sometimes wish wod werewolves were real

Just so they would rip apart the bastards who think putting glue in a frog's mouth is funny

[chilly vault]

Ooof

That’s horrible

[clear delta]

Wait what the fuck

[grave gulch]

yeah some people do that, saw a couple videos of wildlife vets helping said frogs out

[clear delta]

What are all the were-creatures in cofd?
We have cats, falcons, fish, bulls, roaches, crocodiles

[grave gulch]

There's frogs too no?

[heady kestrel]

Chronciles had Wolves and then The Hosts

Hosts are mainly Rats and Spiders but also can come in stuff like Fungus, Leech, Worms locusts toads and crabs

[clear delta]

Oh I wasn't counting the hosts

Guess they are were-creatures too

[heady kestrel]

I still classify them because they are close enough

Oh I almost forgot Crow Hosts

love those guys

[radiant marsh]

There's also the WATP ones

And those were...

Werebulls, Wererats, Werecats, Werefalcons, Innsmouth-esque fish people, and Wereroaches.

[mighty zephyr]

Wereprops

In the form of mimics

[radiant marsh]

Oh right, the 'Final Form of the Irraka' ones?

[grave gulch]

So like a werecar?

[radiant marsh]

Were-whatever-the-hell-it-wants-to-be

[clear delta]

Oh, there are rat people besides the beshilu?

[mighty zephyr]

It's Irraka who can do prop hunt

[clear delta]

So no werebears, weresnakes, werebugs besides the roaches

[radiant marsh]

There was the Changing Breeds book

But I know pretty much nothing about that

[clear delta]

It wasn't connected to new werewolf at all

[short quiver]

It was, uh
... inconsistent
And divisive

[clear delta]

It was a nwod book, except it didn't care about neod lore or themes at all

[spice abyss]

BRUTCATO

OK, to let you know how bad Changing Breeds is.

[clear delta]

Anyway, space to make new shifters

[spice abyss]

I would bring it up to stop MageTalk cold

[clear delta]

Huh?

[short quiver]

It was, more or less, rules to play as whatever kind of animal-person you want with all that "MAN IS THE VIRUS, THE EARTH MOTHER IS PISSED" stuff that WtF had pared way down on

[spice abyss]

People would stop doing the annoying "All other Splats as Interpreted by Mage" arguments that inevitably came up in favor of talking about how shit Changing Breeds is.

[clear delta]

Also balance problems right?

[short quiver]

Yeah, the "any kind of animal" thing meant that you had one book for people who turn into a kitty cat and people who turn into an elephant monster and there was no attempt made to balance the two
Plus it kept doing things like "SOME SAY the horse-people can run into the spirit world, but we're not going to say if this is true or give you rules for it"

it just wasn't very coherent and, instead, was very Bucato

[radiant marsh]

Didn't it also break the nWoD 'no extra actions ever under any circumstances' rule?

[short quiver]

yeah, I think so

[high current]

it also iirc conflates therianthropes, aka people who think they are/want to be animals, with people who engage in bestiality, provides a merit for communicating by smearing shit on the wall, and has a whole thing where they 'can' learn a lesser form of Mage magic, but the way the mechanics are written it barely functions

(main thing i remember about their magic mechanics is, iirc you can buy specific spells by paying for them as a merit of the same dot rating, and you get a gnosis stat to roll when casting them, but your gnosis acts as a cap to the splat's normal power stat and vice versa, so it's entirely possible to lock yourself out of the stat's shit as a whole or eliminate your gnosis)

as insomniac said, it was very Brucato

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.tumblr.com/ogrepoppenangleaksofficial/764248613190811648/ive-been-reading-the-demon-the-fallen-book-and?source=share

we had opinions on demon

[grave gulch]

Voy's a cool dude

[mighty zephyr]

no he isn't that bitch owes me money

[grave gulch]

[short quiver]

I remember back in the day when one gameline would just flat-out contradict something established in a different gameline, and when asked about it, the devs would just go "I don't care"

[spice abyss]

Rolls in

Wyld, Weaver, Wyrm basically put together nonsense stuff. There's not really design happening there, it's just shit gets made.
Demon is engineering to the 3W's art.

[short quiver]

"So the Werewolf book has outer space as outer space and the Umbra as something they have no problem with, even though this Mage book clearly says that outer space is the spirit world and that the werewolves are effected by the Avatar Storm. Care to explain?"
"Sure. I don't give a fuck about what's established in Mage."

[spice abyss]

If you want to mix things together, it's quite simple.

Man was made in God's image, consensus is just being God

[mighty zephyr]

Consensus doesn't even work in Mage

[spice abyss]

Correct.

[short quiver]

Sure, there's ways to make it work.
But oWoD def had every line with a different metaphysical set-up, and every line was written assuming theirs was accurate without worrying about how it interacted with other lines.

[spice abyss]

The wonderful result of all this is that if you do a lot of research, you learn that by all accounts the world shouldn't work.

And yet in spite of your understanding, it does anyways.

It's quite possible nobody holds the complete picture, not even the ones who took an active part in helping make things.

[short quiver]

"The world is established moment by moment through consensus; what people believe is real is real."
"The world is an animist force set between chaos, order, and entropy."
"Christian God is real and hates you."

[spice abyss]

All of this is true

None of this is true

But reality still exists, and isn't that great?

And when you get down to it, does the big picture matter?

If any one of these were exclusively true, would it actually change how people live now?

This was the most fun part about Demon for me, btw

[grave gulch]

i'm going to throw my hunters into the hedge in my hunter game

[mighty zephyr]

I wish the writers would understand that the big picture doesn't matter

[short quiver]

& then for like a week Creation was supposed to be the WoD's prehistory

[spice abyss]

Chronicles for life bb

[grave gulch]

i take what i like from both

[high current]

im a fan of Demon's lore tbh, but only standalone within the context of the rest of WoD it's definitely an outlier

played in a really short Demon game though and made one of my more interesting characters so far, a norse pagan homicide detective who was working on learning seidr, then got shot and became possessed by a Fiend, and thus had Lore of Patterns which has some precognition stuff

(seidr is basically telling and shaping the future)

[high current]

in other news, https://progeny.odin-matthias.de/

[short quiver]

do you need me to break out the cork board and string for what fits in with Demon thematically?
because I can
Hunter is very nearly a key part of the Demon setting, Vampire and Wraith are very close behind

[high current]

i mean wrt basically saying flat-out 'everyone else is wrong' and everything already mentioned above

it all goes back to the hypertime thing--the lore for WoD is all over the place, but for any given game just assume that game's books are correct because that's what matters

caine help you if you try to do a crossover and actually have the lore make sense

[short quiver]

well yeah, but
the Imbued are, well, imbued by literal angels of Christian God, as in the guy who the Fallen used to work for, so the Demons are right about everything there
who's the same guy who cursed Caine and started the whole Vampire mess, so again, no contradiction
Wraith just has no big cosmological answers for Demon to contradict, the worst it does is has some lore that says another gameline was actually the Demons messing around

[mighty zephyr]

Demon would get me on board more if it wasn't literally Christian

If it was allegorical I'd be able to let things slide but like

Being a game specifically about Christian theology which also spits on the Bible as being completely false is like

"Who is this for?"

[versed zodiac]

really edgy people

[mighty zephyr]

Like, that line Fresh says in the answer is something I said

"Demon is for people raised catholic and mad about it"

[versed zodiac]

that's fair, yeah

[mighty zephyr]

I was raised catholic and I'm not mad about it and all I can really see is just like

An actual avid contempt for religion

[short quiver]

I mean it's not about Christian theology, it's about pop-Christian mythology, which aren't the same thing
& also it doesn't say the Bible is wrong, it kinda pointedly does not take a position re: Christ &c

[mighty zephyr]

I mean by virtue of being gnostic it kinda says that most of the Bible and essentially all of the new testament is wrong

[short quiver]

I didn't get "gnostic" from it, personally

[mighty zephyr]

I mean it casts God as the demiurge

[short quiver]

I don't know that I agree
The description of their motives by demons kinda sounds like it but I don't think the line as a whole supports that

[clear delta]

How interesting are the true brujah?

[mighty zephyr]

Eh

You can probably do something with them but I don't WW did

[high current]

im kind of surprised we havent had any mention of them in V5 yet tbh, since by the end of Revised they had fallen in with the Ministry, who have now joined the Anarchs

i imagine Temporis would just be a new set of Celerity powers in V5 though

similar to Vicissitude and Protean

[patent stirrup]

It might be in part that most of there Lore was that they did the Russian Revalution and Gouled and halfway embraced Lenin into some sort of near dead goul vamp hibred that can actualy do anything

And that's the sort of thing that as we understand it V5 is tryingt o get away from

[mighty zephyr]

Part of it is that the True Brujah were just like

Antediluvian Plot

And a means to introduce Time Travel

[clear delta]

Too bad

Time powers can be fun

Also interesting lore that it pulls from the time effects on the vampire's body

[mighty zephyr]

Time powers are fun in novels

[clear delta]

Oh, yeah, time travel is a step too far to hand out

Shenanigans can get too much

Actual time travel in ascension and awakening are restricted to masters

And even then have their restrictions

[high current]

Temporis didn't give time travel until like 7 dots

5 dots lets you be DIO though, depending on edition(2nd edition's 5th dot power was freezing a given object in time; every other edition lets you take multiple actions in a single round without splitting your dice pool iirc)

https://tenor.com/78aJ.gif

[clear delta]

Oh extra actions. The bane of balance

[mighty zephyr]

I mean the True Brujah were introduced with their Ante who COULD time travel

[high hornet]

I had a fight against a true brujah once

Didn't go well

[orchid void]

okay but actually what if I did just put the stone mask into WoD that would be hilarious

it would cause so many problems and I can replace the antediluvians with pillar men

[mighty zephyr]

Caine doesn't have to be real!

Go for it!

[clear delta]

Pretty great idea

Expand on the pillar people's history and culture

Vampire anthropologists studying the pillar men

[spice abyss]

The Stone Mask is perfect WoD stuff.

[high current]

I REJECT MY HUMANITY, JOJO

[grave gulch]

Nuh uh

[clear delta]

Both demons be like "I never had humanity!"
Promethean be like "Some humanity, please!"

[grave gulch]

some humanity pls

[radiant marsh]

I can hear the theme music

[orchid void]

Caine can be a pillarman

[dense vault]

The Pillarmen are Tzimisce. Near perfect control of their bodies and monstrous transformations.

[grave gulch]

Friends

I dont wanna gm at today's table anymore

[velvet sparrow]

You ok?

[spice abyss]

What happened?

[grave gulch]

I just realized how uncomfortable one of the players make me feel

Is a bit difficult cause we play at their place and we are also friends

Like i legit feel like coming up with an excuse to just bail

I dont know what to do

I really dont wanna talk to them

[high hornet]

If you don't want to confront them about it, you might want to just say you can't do anything at that time any more and drop it

if you feel like you can talk to others about it, maybe talk to one of your other players and see how they feel about it

I'm sorry they've been doing stuff to make you feel uncomfortable

[grave gulch]

I did talk to one other player

They do feel uncomfortable but for reasons different than my own

[mighty zephyr]

not a good sign

[grave gulch]

Yeah...

Like there's some other stuff i wanna gm

Maybe i should use this as an opportunity

I'll wait till tomorrow before i make a decision tho

[high hornet]

Do you feel comfortable enough to tell us what they do to make you feel uncomfortable?

Understandable if not

Just in case you want to talk to people about it

[grave gulch]

Maybe not the details

But the more i think about it the worse it gets

Like i think they just told me about a massive red flag

I only now figured this out

[short quiver]

Sorry to hear that. :/

[grave gulch]

@high hornet may i dm you?

[high hornet]

of course

[high current]

in other news, i think im starting a V5 game one of my players is familiar with V5, one has played like a single session of it ever(we were in a game a friend tried to run about a year and a half ago, but after the first session he suddenly didnt have time to run a game anymore), and the third has no experience, so im considering starting them off with either Crimson Gutter or Primogen's Gambit since afaik they're both intended as an introduction for new players

[grave gulch]

you should add a sock puppet wielding malkavian who talks to the sock puppet as if it were real

||the sock puppet is me||

[high current]

i was considering having a malk prince/baron somewhere

also considering having a tremere with a blood bound gargoyle, but, we dont have any V5 stuff for gargs yet so i'd have to homebrew a bit(granted most of visceratika/flight is covered by Protean)

[clear delta]

Hm, most people don't like that kind of humor with malkavians

[high current]

oh if i did have a sock puppet malk, i would do my best to avoid going fishmalk with it

[grave gulch]

OH SHIT that's like a bad thing right?

i only found out now

i'm sorry

i only now found out about the fish malk thing

[high current]

its basically just a thing of 'dont be a dumbass when representing mental illness'

fishmalk usually refers to someone playing malk and just going 'lulrandom' with it

[versed zodiac]

its also this picture

this picture is Fish Malk

[grave gulch]

oh i was thinking more of a wilson type of situation

like the guy from cast away

maybe avoid the sock puppet part and go to something more similar to what wilson was then

could a vampire survive in isolation?

[high current]

they'd eventually go torpid without blood

[grave gulch]

and if there were animals around?

lets say he doesnt know how to ghoul animals

[high current]

if they're under blood potency 3(?), they can survive off animals

[grave gulch]

i dont think ya even need to be a malkavian for what i'm thinking then

this is a way that people in isolation cope with loningness is it not? start talking to something that isnt really alive?

[high current]

can be ye

[grave gulch]

a lad who's still getting used to talking to people again, still talks to it's inanimate friend out of habit, keeps em in his car at the passenger seat

what could this object be? dont really want it to be 100% like wilson thinking this friend could have been improvised in a different way

[high current]

https://i.redd.it/zlhfenyoc9851.jpg

Charl™️

Charl wasn't the same thing as Wilson, but one could do something like that with a coconut

[grave gulch]

True

Also yeah, not making this lad a malkavian is probably the right call

[high current]

(Charl was a character made up by youtuber Patrick H Willems, originally as a bit character for the videos he was making during quarantine in early 2020, but eventually he turned it into the antagonist for a whole like 2 years worth of plot happening in the background of his video essays, culminating in a 2 hour movie he released on Nebula essentially a shapeshifting evil genius from another universe that can mind control people, and for some reason is stuck as a coconut in our universe)

if i did the sock puppet thing, i'd probably handle it as a face/mouth for an alter/voice in the malk's head
set it up as a goofy little thing but have it be the more sinister side of the malk or something along those lines eventually have the group show up to find the sock covered in blood

but yeah no my original idea with having a malk npc was to have the local baron/prince treat them like a greek king would treat a seer

keep 'em comfy, or not, rely on their prophecies maybe to an unhealthy degree, etc

[grave gulch]

I see

[grave gulch]

yeah....

my mage game is over

it's for the best however

[chilly vault]

Why do reviewtubers always develop lore

[high current]

i wouldnt say always, there's a ton of them that dont do that sort of thing

patrick only did it initially to entertain himself during lockdown, but then just kept building on the gag

and it wasnt just Charl; he modeled his videos during lockdown after what all the late night hosts were doing to keep their show on air--had a few different once-per-video segments that were just goofy stuff to replace the time he'd normally spend in his videos joking with his friends about whatever the topic was

only ones i remember/that actually mattered was he had an intern, Emma, recapping the plot of a movie she's a big fan of, in like 30 second segments, and then a 30-second segment of just Charl sitting there
Charl went on to be a big lore thing, and Emma is still part of the show like 4 years later

[chilly vault]

Yeah it's just like a Known Thing

That a certain type of 0 has like a 20% chance of having a whole complex metaplot going on

I just wanna hear your opinion about comics, man

[high current]

he usually puts a timestamp you can skip to if you wanna ignore his silly story shenanigans, when his videos have them, and the whole charl thing is ignorable at this point

[high hornet]

big hugs skully

[high current]

dunno if this should be posted in #misc-game-recruiting, i'll move it if it should ig, but, i'm looking for 1-2 more people for the V5 game I'm starting, probably gonna be starting off as fledglings cause 2 of my current players have little to no experience with the system/setting. current plan is Saturdays at <t:1729033200:t>

[grave gulch]

i'm starting a new mage table

this time we doing it through foundry tho

[high current]

good luck

[grave gulch]

at first i thought "maybe i'll do geist" but i read so much on mage

[grave gulch]

question

what could be fun things a witch connected to the fae(she lives in the hedge) ask to my player who's looking to ask for her help in finding her brother?

her brother in this instance was taken by the fae

[high current]

is this in a mage game or vampire?

[grave gulch]

actually for the hunter game i like doing crossovers so one of my players has a brother who was taken by the fae

[high hornet]

the great name hunt
she gives the guy's name to find him. They search that person down, but it's a fae who's stolen the name off of someone. Who turns out to be another fae, who's also stolen that name, who stole it from another fae- continue several fae down in a giant ring of fae name stealing while uncovering a name stealing cartel who have been working with crminal humans to erase their identities for a price.

[high current]

and im assuming this witch is a witch by the hunter definition, rather than an acanthus mage

[grave gulch]

yes not acanthus

[high current]

i havent looked at Witch Finders in a hot minute so i dont remember their mechanics or what one might want, at least in keeping with that book's stuff, but typical stuff in faerie tales would be like, half of someone's remaining lifespan(they return to fae in their sleep and sleep for 12 hours a day), someone's name(they literally cease to be recognized, or recognize themselves, by that name), memories of the person they're trying to save(so they might be saved, but the saver will forget who they are), or 'a favor, to be repaid at a later time' which will usually involve some dangerous shit when asked

[grave gulch]

ooooh

i like the memories thing

and the favor to be repaid is also an interesting way to keep the player on edge

[high current]

alternatively for something way less severe, given that this is a witch and not a true fae, the last joint of a finger, a piece of their sanity/mental fortitude(lose a dot of integrity or a point/dot of willpower; if they pay a WP dot, they can regain it by spending 1xp, going off Mage 2e mechanics), the ability to taste their favorite food, or something else ephemeral like that

(i like the idea of fae/faerie witches being able to fuck with the character sheet as part of the bargain, so another idea is taking or changing their virtue/vice, concept, or a specialty or something else that the players might never consider could be manipulated)

also there's a tumblr post ive seen but im too lazy to dig up right now, but it's like

me(he/him): hi
fae: hello, may i have your pronouns
me: sure
fae(he/him): thank you
me: wait wtf

[grave gulch]

i love that

[mighty zephyr]

So

I have discovered W5's vibes resonant severely through the Metal Gear Rising soundtrack

Truly this is the most evergreen buttrock ever constructed by the hands of man

[grave gulch]

Honestly the fact you are fighting an evil corporation in metal gear rising just makes what u say make even more sense

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah the thing I decided on is Pre-Final Boss Armstrong is perfect for a Pentex bigwig

and Final Boss Armstrong is perfect for Cult of Fenris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dPaVk4G1jg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYAPgPH9hsI

The themes arre absolutely perfect

[high current]

Rules of Nature is literally right there

[mighty zephyr]

I know but that's so general that it doesn't fit for specific characters

[clear delta]

Red Sun is also a good one

[mighty zephyr]

I'm My Own Master Now is perfect for Renunciates of Fenris

[royal river]

Being able to put MGR to Werewolf might be a step towards selling me on it lol

[radiant marsh]

Red Sun also strikes me as a werewolf theme

Just in general

[high current]

theme song for Wyrmwood/Anthelios

[high current]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOIyk-y3xNo

[high current]

Earthblood overall was kind of a mess of a game, but the soundtrack was solid

[high current]

question for anybody who's read/run Crimson Gutter before, when a PC gains a Predator Type, should they also automatically get the specialty, discipline dot, and whatever merits/flaws associated? or do they need to spend xp on those

(probably not instantly, i'm thinking it'd probably happen at the end of the night/in the downtime before the next story)

[orchid void]

building a werewoof for forsaken

having fun making someone who is not having a great time

[grave gulch]

Let me call this werewoof of yours

Maybe all they need is someone to talk to

[orchid void]

nah she's got a pack

she's just pretty sure its the end of the world now

[grave gulch]

Oh

Yeah i cant help her with that

[orchid void]

its cool she's Handling It (made friends with a Pure, Drinking)

[grave gulch]

[clear delta]

Which end of the world?

Ancient being rising up? Mass disruption of the shadow?

Vague prophecy?

[orchid void]

Idagim Real

Idagim Very Unpleasantly Real

[spice abyss]

Idagim Real is bummer hours for sure

[orchid void]

yeah! killed her last pack so now she's just gonna fuck around until she dies. seek a worthy doom to fall to.

that'll make a goodass saga lmao

[grave gulch]

destroy your enemies

spare the foxes

[orchid void]

Missy McCoy, the Doomsday Poet- A girl from Mobile, Alabama; whom before the First Change made her living panhandling with her guitar and looking for ways to get paid to strangle people. (She settled on semi-professional MMA and barfighting.) After the Change, well, she was a happy thing, learning every creepy story she could and 'spicing them up' with half-truths and convenient lore to make her hunts a little easier- if people think they're running from a rouxgaroux proper (or the Jackson Cannibal, or the Athens Axekiller, or Rawhead-n-Bloody-Bones...), like they was told about by their cousins, they'll follow the story to try and keep themselves safe. She's just gotta scare 'em a little and the prey traps itself. And the ones who get away, they don't talk about what they seen for long enough that Missy can skip town. Worked real well for awhile. Then came the dreams, of the End Times fast approaching.

yeah here we go

[high hornet]

Oh dear oh dear

At least she died doing what she loved

I mean it hasn't happened yet but she will when it does

[mighty zephyr]

We are gonna maybe have to kick the ass of a storm lord named Brad the Destroyer who is doing a little of a lot of heresy

[grave gulch]

wrong chat?

[mighty zephyr]

Nope

[grave gulch]

ooh

what's a storm lord?

[patent stirrup]

Werewolf clan, there hat is chonic Backstabing IWRC

[orchid void]

Nah, children of Winter Wolf

Their oath is Let no one see nor tend your weakness or somesuch

[orchid void]

she intends to!

[mighty zephyr]

You're thinking of the Shadow Lords

The Storm Lords are the stoic leaders of the Uratha

[patent stirrup]

Ahh right

[radiant marsh]

Stoic self-appointed leaders of the Uratha

[spice abyss]

I will take the opportunity to shill Forsaken 1e's Storm Lord book

Which, as an added bonus, also has the rad as hell World War 2 Werewolf microfiction.

[orchid void]

Unfortunately im doing Hunter In Shadows

[mighty zephyr]

Ans I'm going bone boys

[orchid void]

yaaaaaaaaah

[grave gulch]

@mighty zephyr when you say hunter the parenting pit is full of spoilers...you mean spoilers of stuff that didnt come out yet? .w. if so imma stay the heck away

[mighty zephyr]

No lmao

It's more due to the fact it wad made for ep4 and people went hog on theory crafting

[grave gulch]

Oh ok

Good to know

[high current]

did session 0 for my Crimson Gutter game yesterday, and one of my players decided to commit to a bit and convinced the rest of the group to go along with it

https://www.vxtiktok.com/t/ZP882PLJs/

he made a Tzimisce with a dot in performance and a specialty in flute, and convinced the other Tzimisce player to do the same

and they decided the coterie is a Plumaire of musicians or something along those lines

(the other 2 PCs are a Toreador and a Minister)

[high hornet]

Reminds me that I randomly picked up wood carving as an expression skill

so yey for whittling vampires

He is a chef as well so it's like, knife work

[high current]

We also ended up deciding that their Sire(same guy for both) Embraced both of them after they got hit by a car. Unclear if the Sire was driving or not

(I'll probably allude to the driver having been a ghoul of his, cause iirc the book implies he's not prone to embracing people at random; more likely he was eyeing them already and either engineered the accident or was conveniently around when it happened)

[high hornet]

Hunting (driving under the influence)

[orchid void]

cw: some body horror but
||Now you meet Missy in the woods, you see that well-toned woman and her razor-blade smile. She tells you that you ain't meant to be here, that this ain't no place for men. There's only monsters. Think to yourself maybe she's just some drunk who followed you from the bar, out to this dark and primeval stretch of loblolly pines outside of Hattiesburg. And you're gonna cuss her out, pick a fight-

And then her smile keeps getting wider. You can hear the bones creak and snap and grind together in her body, hear the tendons snap like rubber-bands and the tearing sounds of muscle wriggling free from its mooring. See her open up her mouth, the muzzle of some great beast forcing its way between her lips. Her skin near explodes from the forces at work on it, long strips of bloody flesh bursting against the muscle and bone that build up the prodigious size of the beast, matting the fur with her own blood. A canine nightmare bays for your soul, wearing its own shed skin like fluttering ribbons, stalking forward with taloned hands at the ready. Hands flex. Teeth clack. The Hunt begins||

i think i can write a Change pretty good.

[high hornet]

Yee!

[grave gulch]

[orchid void]

yes foxy?

a question?

[high current]

i asked my players to start thinking about what their Beast is like, and one of them DMd me to ask if her Minister's Beast could be Set

2 of the others have the same Sire so it'll be interesting if they ask that their Beast speaks with their Sire's voice

(especially because i'm running Crimson Gutter, and they're both Tzimisce, therefore their Sire is Robert, the first non-Thin-Blood vampire they're likely to be introduced to)

[radiant marsh]

Hunter in Darkness?

[orchid void]

absolutely u know it

[grave gulch]

No questions

[grave gulch]

@clear delta pinging u cause u seem to know geist the best

what's a good movie, book or story in general that i could look for inspiration in making a geist game?

[clear delta]

I riiiiise

[clear delta]

Hold on a sec

Geist has a list

Medium is a tv series I liked

In it, the protagonist is a medium working as a consultant in a district attorney's office, and helps ghosts

[spice abyss]

Ghostbusters, unironically

[clear delta]

Thir13en ghosts is a classic with the sort of iconic status geists have
I only watched the remake, and advise you not to watch it

Oh, police procedurals in general are mentioned as good inspiration

Izombie isn't a ghost story, but I personally recommend it. The main character, who now works in a morgue to ethically get brains, must contend with her lost humanity, and the mwmories of the brains she eats, trying to give justice to them by working with a police officer

The game Grim Fandango, in which you play as a travel agent (reaper) of the afterlife, who tries to protect a virtuous soul, and investigate corruption in the system. Film noir vibes

Oh, I was looking at 1e. Well, still fits

Let's grab 2e.
M. R. James. Author hailed as a master of ghost stories

Oh haunting of hill house. A terrifying and good story

Family is still haunted by a house they long left, and the tragedy they suffered there

Paranorman is a perfect film for geist. Kid can see ghosts, and must deal with an ancient ghost's wrath, and discover what tragedy happened in the past

Coco is a film where the main character visits the realm of the dead, and I dunno why Book of Life, a similar movie, wasn't mentioned

Non-fiction: Greg Palmer's Death: the trip of a lifetime. Explores death rituals around the world with an humorous tone

[orchid void]

i kinda love the forsaken book about packs looking me dead in the eye and saying "toxic yuri is not only allowed but encouraged"

[clear delta]

Oooooh nice!

[orchid void]

they're hammering a lot on how the dynamics of the pack are useful to uratha and wolfblooded but definitely look like weird insular cults or toxic relationships on the outside

[high current]

i also recommend Haunting of Bly Manor, which Netflix has as season 2

[clear delta]

Anyway, more recommendations from me. Fatal frame is excellent for ghost stories. Creative design on a few ghosts, and each curse has a tragic origin to be explored. Also, there's a gate to some other world corrupting the area. The underworld doesn't normally do this but you could if you want

[high current]

they're distinct stories but their ghosts operate on similar logic and they have a lot of the same people involved

[clear delta]

I heard of lockwood and co, a series in which teens hunt ghost, eventually gaining the help of a sarcastic and mean skull in a jar

School ghost stories is another good one, and ran on Brazil when I was a kid. I loved it and always watched when I could, even though I was scared
In the internet, it's most known for its English dub, which lacked accuracy but was filled with jokes

[orchid void]

Oh oh

Give Crimson Peak a look for ghost stories

Especially visual inspiration

[radiant marsh]

The 2001(?) Thirteen Ghosts is good Geists visual/thematic inspiration

Given how it's explicitly ghosts based on archetypes

[clear delta]

I liked the hero academia fanfic Yesterday Upon the Stair, in which Izuko sees ghosts and has one always around him, adopted as his little sister. She's a terrifying and difficult to understand stringy haired ghost girl

[versed zodiac]

that old onyro yoinky sploinky

[clear delta]

On that note, The Ring, The Grudge, and Dark Water are classics
I have the book version of the Ring, though I stopped due to a heavy topic. I think I can get back to it after so long, but procastination, y'know

We need Krewe inspiration here, too. Anyone has good ones?

[orchid void]

Uuuh i think Ghostbusters is right lmao

you do kinda just have krewes doing ghostbusters shit

they show up when shit is weird and spooky as just a gang of weirdo exorcists

[mighty zephyr]

Shaman King

[orchid void]

u kno what yeah

absolutely shaman king

[clear delta]

Yeah totally

Krewe running a bath house.

[grave gulch]

i have an audio book for that!

also watched crimson peak

thanks for all the suggestions everyone imma make a lil list

[high current]

for reference i think wax is referring to the tv show on netflix; the book it's based on/named after is a different story, about a group of psychics exploring a supposedly haunted house, iirc

[orchid void]

Okay but that’s still really Geist

So it’ll work lmao

[clear delta]

The book is that different? Gotta read it

[clear delta]

Huh, I think geist has no time powers.
I think only mages and changelings have those?
Well, guess oracle haunt counts

[high current]

yeah, the show mainly takes names and concepts from that book + others by the same author, remixes it all into something new

same for Bly Manor, every episode is named after and loosely based on a different story by the same author

[radiant marsh]

I remember the Netflix Hill House pissing me off.

But it didn't make enough of an impression that I remember WHY it pissed me off.

[grave gulch]

interesting

[high current]

i loved it personally

[grave gulch]

i wonder if i should listen to the book first

[clear delta]

Fave Krewe archetype?

[grave gulch]

Fave? you mean favorite?

[clear delta]

Yep

[grave gulch]

i dont really have one yet!

what about you tho? which one is your favorite?

[clear delta]

Necropolitans look pretty fun. I'm still figuring out the difference between pilgrims and undertakers

[grave gulch]

i'm still trying to figure out a lot of stuff about it myself i started the mage table with different people so i'm a bit short on time since i'm also gming a hunter game

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLzxuIfD9rU

This is a Mage song

both types

[orchid void]

acanthus awakening

also hey does anyone have any recs for like. how to write a lodge

i don't want to have to dust off my old onyx path forum login to ask

[radiant marsh]

flavor-wise or rules-wise?

[orchid void]

Rules

flavor is easy, i need to figure out what's appropriate to do ruleswise for a Lodge Benny

the ban i can also go figure out bc all i have to do is go research like. rawhead and bloody bones some more

[mighty zephyr]

oh here

https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/1385196-a-catalog-of-lodges-a-catalodge

@orchid void sorry for the delay had to find it

[orchid void]

oooh okay okay

[clear delta]

Back on my Fatal Frame recc, I'd say it's good krewe inspiration

The first three games are generally about exploring the homes of old families who performed rituals involving the dead and the beyond

So they have a bunch of spooky rituals and cool holy objects and shrines

Though their rituals are rather bloody, and wouldn't really fit more ethical krewes

The first game, has some masks. One pierces the eye and blinds, another is the main ritual mask to be used by the head of the family and changes based on his nature.
The second game, there was a family associated with dolls and clockwork, and they made the passageway to the ritual site, that works using two dolls. They must be whole, then operated into the right poses

Damn, I played and loved it, but stuff escapes my mind

[grave gulch]

does Forbidden siren(the old ps2 game) fit any of the Wod/Chronicles games vibe?

[late goblet]

Favorite part of writing sabbat is explaining why they so fucked in the head

Explaining in detail who dropped each member of the pack on their head as a kid and at what angle

[clear delta]

Could easily do a mortals game, bunch of regular people are thrown into a Situation, and gain powers from the lake and rivers of blood

Forbidden siren seems to fit rather well the Lamprey hosts, who fill the gauntlet with blood, and want to usher in a dimension that's an ocen of blood into this world

It just seems to fit rather well spirits and shadow fuckery

[grave gulch]

are lamprey hosts from werewolf?

[clear delta]

Yes

I must have left the explanation for them somewhere in this thread

https://discordapp.com/channels/426286410496999425/1161696306100715550/1279523611241222165

It's not much

hm

Okay so, they make deals with people, they can assassinate, make land fertile

WHat they ask in return is blood and help in their plans

Kinda different from forbidden siren, where you're mostly avoiding the zombies and being stuck in a village that got screwed up, but there is a cult in Siren

[grave gulch]

[clear delta]

A circus or acting troupe krewe could be fun

[high current]

one could arguably do something similar to Siren as a necromancer summoning a bunch of ghosts into the bodies of townsfolk or something along those lines

(or hunger spirits, if one wanted to do that kind of thing in Werewolf or Mage without a Moros)

[grave gulch]

I could see a Moros mage doing that

[clear delta]

You could have bloody waters from the underworld coming into this world

[grave gulch]

[clear delta]

Hm I dunno how Reapers would feel about that

They just care about dragging the dead below, I dunno what they'd think about the underworld breaching this one

[grave gulch]

maybe players could summon one

[clear delta]

Hm, necropolitan krewe that's an acting troupe joining living and dead in their audience and actors

Or undertakers using plays to explore mortality and teach people

[high hornet]

Currently in a big meeting with very important people. Managed to put my foot in my mouth a little but recovered OK.

We've sort of been deciding what path to explore on our way forward, and I believe we might be going to Cairo to kill a cult

Hell of a jump for New Orleans to Cairo

[short quiver]

globetrotting adventure!

[high hornet]

sure hope I don't explode

[orchid void]

it'll be fiiiine

[grave gulch]

i was looking for some suggestions when using the Crossways in my next mage session, a basic description of it is that it's sort of like a maze you are trapped in a copy of the real world made by the abyss, the deeper you go the more funky reality gets...and i wanted to ask what kind of effects could be used to make the situation more interesting to my players?

when trapped in the crossways you can only leave if you go through the gateway and to seal it you need to follow the crossway's path in reverse

[patent talon]

It'd be cool if NPCs they know get more and more cruel or otherwise strange and hostile as they get deeper in, along with whatever other effects the world around them will suffer

Like, the kindly old lady who lives next doors gets crueller and crueller, or more invasive and smothering, until she's breaking into their apartment to organise things

[grave gulch]

[clear delta]

My idea is more solid now
Undertaker krewe that uses theatre to explore the topic of death and people's relationship to it, integrating and reinterpreting myths and history

Perhaps even performing in funerals

[radiant marsh]

What you should be doing is mashing up Changeling and Geist and having both in the PC party

Then you can have a Motley Krewe

[clear delta]

A bunch of Furies and Summer courtiers are converging on your location

[clear delta]

Anyone done krewes here? What doctrines did you use?

[grave gulch]

I cant figure out a good kind of music to play during a mage game

@chilly vault i summon thee fir suggestions

[chilly vault]

BGM isn't really my area of expertise

But I've got a song that could be decent for an intro/fade in depending on your tone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZqUprA6bKE&pp=ygUVd2hlbiBpIHdhcyBkb25lIGR5aW5n