I, for one, find it hilarious when the party stands about looking like gormless twits because three vampires cannot find a single point of Athletics between them
#World of Darkness
versed zodiac
zinc robin
I have 15 is that enough?
orchid void
I, for one, find it hilarious when the party stands about looking like gormless ...
The Masquerade is in Shambles
versed zodiac
any given VtM campaign can, at any time, devolve into Never Sunny in Elysium
velvet sparrow
What We Do In The Shadows
zinc robin
Oops all Salubri
oops all V5 Salubri trying to keep mortals alive in a system that took their powers to do that away
orchid void
any given VtM campaign can, at any time, devolve into Never Sunny in Elysium
the hunter game i'm in had the problem of "we left the investigators alone" when a bunch of strike team guys showed up
versed zodiac
whose problem...?
orchid void
the problem of the two heavy-hitters who were rooting around the rest of the scene we were digging thru
they left the journalist and the detective alone and the detective had to desperately flail to ventilate a black ops guy before running
we have in fact pissed off the government
candid shadow
What’d you do?
orchid void
desperately flail, ventilate exactly one guy, and retreat while firing wildly so the journalist could pull out too
and then the heavies kind of chewed through the rest of the strike team
candid shadow
Ohhhh, I assumed that strike team was sent because you pissed off the government
No you pissed then off by killing that strike team
orchid void
no they were already pissed
ventilating the black helicopter boys did not help their mood
candid shadow
Ohh then how’d you piss them off?
orchid void
that is exceedingly complicated and involves me talking about Majestic 12
short quiver
They're a mainstay of conspiracy theory lore.
The super-secret government agency that tracks the UFOs and quiets the people who Know Too Much
orchid void
nah we're doing some weird modern conspiracy stuff using Hunter
clear delta
So, human context and perspective have some impact on the spirit world.
So, hospital spirits could have something like helplessness, or unfulfilled wishes (missing out on things by being on the hospital) as part of their conceptual make-up?
open roost
oh those are good, yeah
candid shadow
And I just wrapped up session 0 of my campaign
Unfortunately one of my players had to miss it but I’ll help them make their character in their free time
So I’ve got these 4 people:
A street artist turned toreador who’s escaped their master to avoid drawing portraits for the rest of their immortality
A Viking Grangrel sent to america to hunt traitors of their sire, who settled down in America after finding a wife
A cult leader lasombra who uses their cultist to feed
And an average Joe Nosferatu who was just working the night shift when he was turned and just wants to be left alone and chill out for their undeath
radiant marsh
Literal Viking, or just Aggressively Scandinavian?
candid shadow
Literal Viking, or just Aggressively Scandinavian?
Literal Viking
candid shadow
Turned after a raid
clear delta
Raid getting wiped, healers too busy or dead to revive him
candid shadow
Yah
Also huh, counting the one player who didn’t make it I have a lot of Europeans in this group
3/5 vampires were turned in Europe
Albeit one was an American on a vacation
candid shadow
So question about vampire disciplines, besides the powers you choose for them, can you invoke them when doing something related to them?
Like someone with potence, even if they didn’t take a power that says it, is already naturally super strong and could get bonuses when doing feats of strength?
candid shadow
I’m asking because the disciplines have the powers associated with it you choose whenever you put points into them
I’m wondering if they also just passively make you better at whatever they do
orchid void
Aaah
mighty zephyr
Potence is just a flat +Dots to STR isn’t it
Not in V5 I believe
radiant marsh
Depends on the Discipline
orchid void
I’m wondering if they also just passively make you better at whatever they do
Not as my memory serves me? A Discipline costs vitae and then Goes, right?
candid shadow
Not in V5 I believe
Also yah just to specify this is V5
orchid void
You wanna be strong without potence, buy STR dots yeah
candid shadow
Not as my memory serves me? A Discipline costs vitae and then Goes, right?
Alright cool
radiant marsh
Ah, k. IDK much about V5. But like in V20 at least some disciplines actually did have always-on passive effects.
A lot of Auspex
versed zodiac
Potence has a power that’s +swole to being huge passively
That’s the one you take if you want Potence to mean that you’re ripped on a constant basis
versed zodiac
It’s kinda fantastic too
mighty zephyr
Potence no longer just passively adds things
versed zodiac
Big ups to the “come at me lick I’m fucking ripped” powers
candid shadow
Ok so then yah no discipline passively does something unless you take a power that adds something passively
orchid void
Oh sweet
mighty zephyr
However you could argue with your ST "Hey can I add (x) to my dice pool here" just as you can any time anything happens
"A Mind mage is attacking me, could I contest with Dominate?" etc etc
versed zodiac
I’d allow it in cases where you’re contesting a physical superpower
candid shadow
Yah that makes sense
versed zodiac
If a lupine tries to arm wrestle you then yeah
As blood surge but add your Potence dots
candid shadow
Well if that happens your arm very well may come off
versed zodiac
Some vampires could win it
mighty zephyr
Yeah the thing is that most werewolves are inherently beatsticks but a properly beatsticked vampire could fight a Lupine on even terms
However most Vampires are socially focused and thus rarely have that beatstick capacity
candid shadow
Fair enough yah
versed zodiac
The Brujah maniac going FUCK YEAH LET’S GO FURBALL
mighty zephyr
A fist goes through their face and a still frame pops up "Brujah Do Not Have Fortitude"
candid shadow
Werewolf vs Brujah
versed zodiac
Doesn’t look like it
mighty zephyr
Nope
versed zodiac
But also, you can just have an off-clan Discipline
candid shadow
Yah true
versed zodiac
Look
candid shadow
Though is there any good ways to get fortitude?
versed zodiac
I’m having a vision of a Canadian hockey playing Brujah with Fortitude and Potence who’s just so here to throw hands
It would be so funny
versed zodiac
A werewolf is, like, causing problems in the neighborhood and a drunken 30-something looking Canadian man starts swearing at it in French and throwing bricks
candid shadow
How good a weapon would a hockey stick be in VTM?
candid shadow
Fair
It’s really a question then if your hockey stick could handle being swung that hard at something
versed zodiac
Once
candid shadow
Also that does actually remind me
I don’t think I have a single person in this group who uses guns
I have one person with a knife
Other then that they’re all unarmed if they can do combat at all
versed zodiac
I have one gun gamer, a Banu Haqim assassain’t
candid shadow
I do really love the idea of an ancient order of vampire assassins using guns
versed zodiac
Whose primary contribution to the group is being the levelheaded one who says “maybe we should not solve this problem with violence”
Despite herself being the one who’s trained in violent problem solving
candid shadow
Is she the only one good at violence?
mighty zephyr
Most people assume guns aren't useful against vampires
candid shadow
They forget however a shotgun blast to the chest kills everything
versed zodiac
Guns are very useful against vampires, they’re just not immediately lethal
Chris Redfield once said EAT LEAD! and I really felt that
candid shadow
Every resident evil protag could probably become the greatest hunter in WOD given the chance
versed zodiac
You’ll scarcely regret having a magnum ready to go
candid shadow
Leon running around round house kicking every prince in America
versed zodiac
Leon would parry anything a Prince could throw at him
mighty zephyr
Leon parries your attempts at Dominate
versed zodiac
Fist of Caine? Parry. Lightning Strike? Parry. Dread Gaze? Believe it or not, parry
candid shadow
Leon runs into whatever high rise apartment the Prince is living in with nothing but an RPG and a dream
orchid void
Wait is there a clan with Fort and Potence in V5
Nossies get both in Requiem which makes them Funny
mighty zephyr
No they don't.
versed zodiac
It’s all fun and games until the Hunter pulls out the Samurai Edge and starts unloading X-tech rounds
orchid void
Don’t they?
versed zodiac
Then you’re FUCKED
orchid void
Fort, Pote, and Nightmare
candid shadow
God now I really wanna include a Leon Kennedy expy in my game
mighty zephyr
Nightmare, Obfuscate, Vigor.
candid shadow
You mean 2nd inquisition right?
mighty zephyr
Ye
orchid void
Nightmare, Obfuscate, Vigor.
Huh, my mistake, thought they didn’t get Obfuscation in Req
versed zodiac
Indeed
radiant marsh
Werewolf vs Brujah
This MF doesn't know about Rage Actions.
versed zodiac
They’re real bastards, the second inquisition
You go “haha silly human your guns cannot harm me”, boom, Stake Launcher
mighty zephyr
(Rage Actions aren't in 5th edition)
candid shadow
This MF doesn't know about Rage Actions.
Is that a werewolf mechanic?
radiant marsh
It was in W20 and earlier at least.
Basically you could spend rage to get an extra action
I think it was up to half your total pool per turn
candid shadow
Ohhh
radiant marsh
Which basically meant that a starting Ahroun would have the equivalent of Celerity 2 or 3
versed zodiac
Whenever characters can screw with the action economy I’m reminded of that fucking Transistor quote
candid shadow
Oh shit so unless your vamp has insane celerity you’re still slower
candid shadow
Can celerity get that’s strong?
You moving so fast it feels like everything else has stopped?
radiant marsh
I think there was a combo Discipline that did similar
Like there was a Celerity/Auspex one that not only boosted your speed, it also boosted your perception. To the extent that it, IIRC, specifically called out being able to see the rifling marks on passing bullets.
versed zodiac
You moving so fast it feels like everything else has stopped?
Lightning Strike makes you go first no matter what, yes
There’s a variant for shooting with guns where you don’t get to run fast, but you can shoot with perfect precision
candid shadow
Rad
versed zodiac
Due to having nearly unlimited time to aim
radiant marsh
But yeah. There was a reason the first rule about fighting Werewolves as a vamp in classic WoD is 'Don't'
versed zodiac
Honestly
Bullet time + silver rounds might be the only way
Or like
Lightning Striking one with a silvered blade
candid shadow
But yeah. There was a reason the first rule about fighting Werewolves as a vamp...
Honestly I want to kinda keep that vibe
radiant marsh
Or just using your connections to have their Caern bulldozed
versed zodiac
Or that
radiant marsh
Werewoles have the physical power
candid shadow
I’m planning to have an early thing be a werewolf encounter in Central Park
radiant marsh
Vampires have the societal power
mighty zephyr
Celerity used to give extra actions.
candid shadow
Where the players are clearly outmatched and going to die if they try and fight
orchid void
Bullet time + silver rounds might be the only way
I still have money on a sufficiently Large Nossie or Gangrel
versed zodiac
But yeah my players had a werewolf encounter and it was basically just a RUN RUN RUN scene
candid shadow
Nossie?
mighty zephyr
This was part of the old power scaling of WoD and it's largely gone from this edition I will say.
versed zodiac
Yeah a really big roided out nossie or gangrel might be able to spin it
candid shadow
Ohhh nosferatu
versed zodiac
Who could it be now
orchid void
Look im saying Count Fucking Dracula might take one, but no more than that
candid shadow
Yah tzimiche are entirely social disciplines aren’t they?
mighty zephyr
Nope
versed zodiac
Haha no
mighty zephyr
Tzimice can make flesh kaiju
versed zodiac
Tzimisce can be superbeasts in combat thanks to Zulo
orchid void
Fleshwarped Monsters at their command
Ghouls transformed into Grotesques
That’s the classic one from Dark Ages
versed zodiac
Scariest thing a Tzimisce can throw at you is their own fine self turned into a perfect killing machine
mighty zephyr
Nuclear blast of lava to kill a werewolf easy peasy
versed zodiac
That or the war ghoul
orchid void
It’s like fighting a Life mage, very easy until it isn’t
versed zodiac
Gotta watch out for the war ghoul
“I got my whole life ahead of me” no you don’t baby here comes the war ghoul
It’s six foot twenty fucking killing for fun
versed zodiac
Yea
Not as instant or dynamic but yeah
Instant Body of Distorted Killing is the average Zulo form
candid shadow
Still though same general idea of making flesh monstrosities as minions and forming yourself into a killing machine
versed zodiac
There’s a Tzimisce in the Sabbat pack in my chronicle I’m running right now that hauls around a giant battle axe, what the players don’t know is it’s symbolic
If she really wants to square up she tosses it aside and goes hand to hand
candid shadow
Hell yah
Though actually I’m wondering something
In V5 they just have protean, so how does that work now?
versed zodiac
Vicissitude and its specializations are Protean/Fortitude amalgam powers
candid shadow
But the tzimiche don’t have fortitude
versed zodiac
Dominate yeah
I like that they made the clan disciplines into amalgam powers, it makes the clan-specific disciplines into something that feels like a lore or art that a clan develops from basic vampire abilities over time
candid shadow
Yah it’s neat
The tzimiche got protean but instead of seeing it as a means to become like animals they embraced a more monstrous aspect to it
candid shadow
What happens if a vampire goes to long without feeding?
zinc robin
Which edition?
candid shadow
5th
zinc robin
So are you specifically making a build that never needs to feed, or
high current
if you fail a rouse check to wake up while at 5 hunger you go into torpor iirc
candid shadow
So are you specifically making a build that never needs to feed, or
Nah I’m just learning the system to run it
high current
if you're already awake you go into a hunger frenzy
zinc robin
Because eventually otherwise you're just going to either become torpid or frenzy, yeah
Now in every edition of VTM (and Requiem too for that matter) there's always at least 1 build that theoretically never needs to feed that's an exception to that
candid shadow
What’s that?
Also I’ve got a player who took the organ eater flaw
And he (at least for now) can still eat animal organs for that right?
Because otherwise that flaw kinda requires a steady flow of dead people
More so then normal feeding
radiant marsh
Doesn't it specify they have to be human organs?
And that's sort of the point of the flaw since it's V5s take on the Nagarajah. You have to eat people to survive, which generally means you're going to be on a downward Humanity spiral in short order.
versed zodiac
I don’t know that it specifies human organs
radiant marsh
Flaw: (••) Organovore. You can slake Hunger only by eating human flesh and organs, especially those rich in blood such as the heart, liver, lungs, placenta, and spleen. (Most organovore Kindred these nights make smoothies from the organs first.) Only the heart provides Resonance, if any.
versed zodiac
Ah, there you go then
radiant marsh
That being said
Nobody said they had to be fresh, or you had to acquire them yourself.
Contacts in a hospital to provide you with a steady stream of surgical waste that's otherwise slated for biohazard incineration.
versed zodiac
you can Organovore many ways but they're all gonna be harder than drinking blood
candid shadow
Ah shit
zinc robin
And that's sort of the point of the flaw since it's V5s take on the Nagarajah. ...
Still annoyed at V5 making the Hecata bane the most boring one they could possibly have picked of the constituent clans
versed zodiac
you can take the variant Bane
clear delta
Huh, but regular vampires can drink blood from animals
Nagaraja are really fucked
versed zodiac
It kinda sucks to be one yeah
zinc robin
Also on a tangent V5 why did you get rid of my ability to supernaturally heal a mortal as a Salubri with the Salubri discipline powers??
acoustic plaza
spice abyss
Yes, but it's short
supple quail
yknow vampires probably are a bit better at guns ignoring powers because no heart beat nor breathing
midnight grotto
Do werewolves suffer from poison ivy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbR5-Ngervg Yes, as evidenced by this recorded conclusion of a siskur-dah (heads up for gun violence, poor rip quality, and some sloppy censoring)
versed zodiac
yknow vampires probably are a bit better at guns ignoring powers because no hear...
Vampires are already pretty gun-resistant compared to humans
it's still an effective weapon, but in the sense that a baseball bat is an effective weapon against a human
versed zodiac
Actually that's fair, I'm underselling what a baseball bat can do to a person
Guns are enough that kine with firearms are a credible threat to vampires though
versed zodiac
like, they deal half damage superficial, which is enough for someone to take you out in a few rounds with a magnum
or like
one shot if it's a shotgun lmfao
velvet sparrow
4 guys with shotguns? Yeah that's a big problem. One guy with a glock? Not a threat, unless he's good enough to hit you in the head more often than not
supple quail
Vampires are already pretty gun-resistant compared to humans
i meant more as how good a vampire would be with it
tardy grove
4 guys with shotguns? Yeah that's a big problem. One guy with a glock? Not a thr...
Simply step out of the way of the bullets 🙂
supple quail
mage who uses a gun that makes the bullets hit their target instanteously, specifically to fight supernaturals who'd dodge the bullets (avoids paradox as normally unable to tell how fast a bullet hit someone)
clear delta
Time fraying or perfecting, I guess?
heady kestrel
Combat based legacies are probably really spooky
mighty zephyr
Perfected Adepts were a good one
I would also say Space would work
Just teleporting the bullets
heady kestrel
I made a Sniper Legacy
clear delta
Who believe there's a magical wind across all battlefields in space-time
supple quail
alternatively forces to just make it so fast that it’s not avoidable
clear delta
I made a Sniper Legacy
Post it
heady kestrel
Kinda sped through making it because I still need to make a bunch more before my players hit Gnosis 2 but here ya go
clear delta
Hmm. The attainments are kinda confusing because you only put blank lines between the main and optional
Also, needs more newline. Your text goes on to the side, requiring going back and forth horizontally to read
The legacy itself, you indeed picked practical spells for snipers.
heady kestrel
it looks better on the google doc, it just copy pastes weird
burnt osprey
4 guys with shotguns? Yeah that's a big problem. One guy with a glock? Not a thr...
Even if it's just a glock, depends on the round used it can still produce pretty bad organ and tissue damage
All that energy goes somewhere
spice abyss
I'd prefer the shotgun if I were to shoot a vamp.
Takes the needed precision out of things.
And has the added benefit of having people screech about Masquerade breaches. 
radiant marsh
The meme answer is, of course, shotgun with dragon's breath rounds
zinc robin
"oops I used a 37mm underbarrel grenade launcher full of buckshot because there's no civilian access to 40mms" might work? I think?? (probably not, buckshot cannisters of that size aren't actually particularly effective)
radiant marsh
Let's be honest, if you're hunting the Vampiric conspiracy controlling the world, when do you have the luxury to care about legality? 😛
open roost
hit em with this
open roost
The beat cop statblock has a firearms specialty that says "stationary targets" jesus christ
short quiver
pfft
open roost
starting to write notes for a W5 chronicle, any ideas for rites of passage? i want the first arc to be something simple before we get into like, the territory wars i have planned
orchid void
A haunted house is always my first instinct
mighty zephyr
Yeah was wondering
open roost
part of me wants to say something like, "run a pentex delivery truck off the highway and fight the fomori inside" but another part of me wants to save pentex for when we start focusing on them. theres a lot of shopping malls nearby, theres no way they havent gotten their claws in those
clear delta
Got into some slightly spiritually fucked up place?
mighty zephyr
-Hunting first prey
-Making a spirit pact
-Make a pilgramage to the local Sept
orchid void
i still say a Haunted House, a spirit place maybe, a ghost maybe as well, a spirit eating a ghost? who can say
Something spooky and awful.
open roost
i do know that i want them getting a caern (or reclaiming one) to be like, arc 2
orchid void
Hrmnnn
You could make it arc 1, as a way to pull them into the territorial disputes
Have them reclaim and handle a caern, then pentex starts the pressure
open roost
ok so like... heres what i'm planning
my hometown is mostly suburbs with some huge parks
im gonna put a pack to each park, but they're all considered part of the larger sept
or i guess that would be a sept to each park? either way
one of the packs, responsible for a huge, important, albeit spiritually weak piece of territory was assaulted (and mostly killed) by the black spiral dancers, who have been causing a string of disappearances in the area, and now the police have blocked the park off
the goal of this arc is to reclaim the caern, free the territory, and slaughter wyrm-loving bastards while they do it
actually while i'm here i should like, try to figure shit out so i can make sure its accurate
one of the things i want to do is like, have the police chief in charge of the investigation be possessed by a dissonant gestalt. would the possession give the black spiral dancers some amount of control over him?
candid shadow
Hmm, what do y’all think is a good first session for vampire?
open roost
does the coterie already know eachother
candid shadow
Yes
They’re a sorta group in mostly they hang out in the same places and do odd jobs for one another
open roost
i think thats what id go with. one of them needs help with something that ends up going wrong and/or tying into the larger world somehow
and, like delilah said, haunted house is always available
candid shadow
Yah that could be neat
candid shadow
and, like delilah said, haunted house is always available
Could be an odd job that goes wrong at a haunted house
open roost
yeah!
candid shadow
Ooo actually
What if the coterie is sent for said haunted house, at the same time a group of exorcist hunters are sent to clear it out
The hunters weren’t expecting vampires so they won’t be super well equipped for them but they’re still hunters
open roost
oh thats VERY fun
midnight grotto
It depends on your chronicle goals but I tend to go for things that give an excuse to get familiar with local politics
candid shadow
Also steaks in VTM are any sharpened wooden object right?
They don’t need to be special or anything?
candid shadow
It depends on your chronicle goals but I tend to go for things that give an excu...
Also yah I probably also wanna do something like introduce the local Elysium at least
The ground level politics they’ll be interacting with the most
orchid void
They don’t need to be special or anything?
Stake, but yeah
Thru the heart for Torpor
candid shadow
Oh yah steaks are meat
acoustic plaza
Wod wereolves are inherently driven by 2 forces:
- Fuck it We Ball
- It’s so joever
(Hauglosk Vs Harano)
open roost
the book doesnt really say so but im assuming werewolves would, in fact, butt heads with the inquisition
mighty zephyr
The book does say as much
candid shadow
Yah probably
Are there any supernatural beings not on the 2nd Inquisition’s hit list?
open roost
wait did it? shit
radiant marsh
Are there any supernatural beings not on the 2nd Inquisition’s hit list?
Not really
Though their main concern is Vampires
radiant marsh
Because Vampires are the most 'urban' and also probably the least hazardous splat
In Hunter terms
radiant marsh
Mages are...Mages.
candid shadow
Within human scale
radiant marsh
And Werewolves, even leaving aside all the ragemonster stuff, have that whole built-in Delirium thing
Or, unless your Hunter is WP 10, he's going to have a very bad time.
candid shadow
Mages are...Mages.
Mages you shoot from miles away and hope to god they die before they hear the bullet coming
radiant marsh
Mages are you make a move and instantly get an anvil drop on your head like a Looney Tunes cartoon. Because the guy you were hunting is specced in Fate and has a sick sense of humor.
velvet sparrow
Mages are either "Wait you're telling me that was supposed to be a Mage?" or "You died 6 seconds before you walked into the room."
Mages don't spawn in with 5 dots in all Spheres, most Mages aren't that much more threatening than a mortal if you get the drop on them
radiant marsh
That's the thing though
With any given Mage you have no idea what they're capable of
candid shadow
Yah and with how death is an inconvenience for some of them it’s best to assume you’re dealing with those kinda mages
Like at its worse even if you kill them before they can do anything you’ll still die
candid shadow
I thought they had death curses?
orchid void
Yeah. But they still die.
candid shadow
Ah
orchid void
Death is not “an inconvenience”, it is a closing of a chapter as the Avatar has to go find a new incarnation and hope that asshole remembers how to cast spells
At least in the oWoD you’re cookin in
And nWoD mages also kind of Just Die
clear delta
How easy is immortality in oWod?
orchid void
Be A Vampire
Alternatively cast some very Big, Very Hard Life/Entropy/Fate spells and hope no one calls you out on em
velvet sparrow
Alternatively cast some very Big, Very Hard Life/Entropy/Fate spells and hope no...
(You will get caught.)
orchid void
You will
You don’t cast that big without SOMEBODY noticing and we are right back to a rousing game of Dead Man’s Pointy Shoes
clear delta
And nWoD mages also kind of Just Die
Adding to that. Lichdom in nwod/cofd is controversial, and has signficant downsides if you're trying to be ethical.
You can turn into a spirit/ghost/astral mage for immortality without preying on humans, but you Don't Belong, and can disrupt the world
orchid void
Lichdom also cuts you off from Further Growth
Which is most of why it’s a Left-Handed methodology
The rest of why is Tremeres fault
The Stone Temple Pilots? Perfectly acceptable Liches. Tremere? Kill on sight
clear delta
Lichdom also cuts you off from Further Growth
Wait, how? Besides the way losing your mortality changes your mindset
velvet sparrow
I think it stops you from increasing your Gnosis, mechanically speaking
orchid void
Wait, how? Besides the way losing your mortality changes your mindset
Doesn’t it? Most of the Presented Liches don’t grow their Gnosis. They don’t Keep Growing. The quest for enlightenment stops.
velvet sparrow
Hang on lemme tag in @heady kestrel We talking about (nWoD) Liches
orchid void
You can’t find The Truth without accepting your own Impermanence I figured
Since that’s what All Of Stygia Is Teaching
clear delta
I genuinely never saw that mentioned
I know morpheans have their minds stagnate so they start stealing and insering memories to stir their minds
heady kestrel
I think it depends
by all technicallity is just a specific type of legacy
I don't think it pauses your growth any more than any other legacu does
orchid void
The Legacy ones keep going yeah
heady kestrel
Tremere even have an alternative progression system
like their gnosis becomes a new power stat
called Hollow
candid shadow
The rest of why is Tremeres fault
What did the tremere do?
orchid void
But like, the Beldam and Kosechi are mostly described as “very spooky weird ghosts”
clear delta
What did the tremere do?
Nwod tremere are soul eaters
orchid void
So I just sorta went rolling with it
clear delta
Obsessed with power
candid shadow
Ohhh
heady kestrel
the only thing Lichdoom does to my knowledge is stop ascension rather than necessairly stopping general gnosis progression
orchid void
What did the tremere do?
Basically they used to be part of the pentacle until they revealed, actually, pyramid scheme of soul eating for power
candid shadow
Ohhh
heady kestrel
and its framed more like its dissuades you
the reason its left handed and dissuaded is because its an "easy way out" where you become immortal instead of going to superheaven
orchid void
So they’re now the most famous Reaper Legacy, those who destroy solves for power
clear delta
Ohhh
Nwod tremere worship hunger, place the soul above the physical, and thing they can achieve a super path with all arcana that holds the "actual" truth
Think they have an old base with a lot of their lore, but one tremere took it over and keeps fighting to keep everyone out, even other tremere, so he doesn't have much time to study.
orchid void
Eh, most of what im going off is Tome of the Pentacle
Which lays out Tremere-as-Order
And the corebook describes the modern, post-purge, Tremere
With the diamond orders going “okay free council is the new fifth order let’s goooo”
mighty zephyr
wait did it? shit
Entire Loresheet for it.
radiant marsh
The only ones that get a Get Out of Death Free card are Sin Eaters and Mummies in nWoD
Especially the Mummies
If you kill an Arisen, you've just managed to piss it off, generally.
clear delta
"Free"
Arisen are middle management who get the job by being tortured until all components of their soul erode.
And now must run errands for incomprehensible beings whose most human characteristics are being assholes with big egos. The Arisen are sent across the timestream, waking up with little sense of the world or themselves
They're so funny
radiant marsh
Well, yes, but I mean death is more of a temporary state for them
They literally cannot permanently die
Well, normal Arisen can if very specific circumstsances are met
Lost Guild literally can't
They're explicitly doomed to keep reincarnating until the heat death of the universe
tl;dr being Arisen sucks
Being Shuankhsen sucks even more than that
And being Lost Guild sucks even worse than that
open roost
im ngl whenever i think about willpower damage i immediately picture it as the ace attorney health bar
clear delta
Interesting. Now I thought of a Mastigos who sees psyche locks.
supple quail
https://i.imgur.com/bMFatmd.png
so wait did you go into a pizza rage
open roost
worked on a player's character sheet last night. shes gonna be playing a glass walker theurge, who was an engineering student with a hobby for weaponsmithing, but to make it so that they're not just keeping a gun in their dorm, we have decided that the gun they've built just shoots marbles.
like. really hard though
different player is going to be playing a silver fang galliard vtuber. their persona is already a wolfgirl so if someone tries accusing her of being a werewolf, basically everyone will go "yeah no shit". we havent gotten to actually writing her but we have toyed with the idea that like, depending on the type of games she plays, we'll put dots in brawl for fighting games or dots in firearms for shooters
high hornet
So the good news is that I don't think the technocracy are fully after us.
The bad news is that we have a small splinter group called "the children of the sun" that include hunters who might not be happy with us stealing the shit they were trying to steal.
velvet sparrow
To be quite honest, I would be very surprised if the Techies were fully after you
high hornet
Bad news, they have a recording of my voice as I bullshitted some stuff into a stolen helmet radio.
Good news is they're probably looking for me in new York cause that's where the operation happened and we got put of there soon after
I managed to get two 10s on a 3 dice need 9 and up roll for them to not notice the new heavy new Orleans accent asking about stuff over their radio
velvet sparrow
The Techies are not as big as they pretend to be, you stole some dusty files from an abandoned facility; if you see more than like, 3 dudes I'll be surprised
high hornet
These ones seemed not to be techies directly but an off-shoot of human hunters
They probably don't know we stole the files (and a gun) because that area was soon swallowed by a giant abyss thing as well
But they might want to look I to the weird unknown voice and actions on a very recent mission where we found Capadocian and Hunters fighting
velvet sparrow
Also, you're Camarilla, aren't you?
high hornet
Yeah
velvet sparrow
Yeah okay, so you'll probably get along better than most cause of the whole Masquerade thing
high hornet
Omar is also still sappy about human life so would prefer to be on their side against horrible people.
He found a battle axe of sunlight that cooked his hand when he picked it up
He still kept it. It was neat.
open roost
ok so like, as a first time storyteller, how should i run spirits granting gifts
like do they have to seek out npcs, or will they come to them, whats up
candid shadow
Welp today is the first day of my vampire game
Gonna run it later day
The first time I’m running this game
high hornet
You got this!
patent talon
Good luck!
candid shadow
It went well!
high hornet
Did they get threatened? Did they threaten anyone?
candid shadow
Surprisingly no
zinc robin
Were any of them so unhinged as to be either of my Nosferatu I ran at a LARP (please don't have been- one of my characters got the rules designers contacted with no reply asking why there weren't rules for using vehicles in combat considering how frequently I simply ran someone over with a semi)
Actually come to think of it said character was blind and had his two highest combat skills as firearms and drive- skills that arguably a blind person should not be frequently using
Hopefully your party was slightly more hinged
radiant marsh
clear delta
Embrace the endless cycle
spice abyss
The cycle of violence continues without end or reason. Thank god.
clear delta
Ultrakill song
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elj4zDLqJvw||
rare swallow
"On a scale of 0 to America, I guess you are not that free tonight"
Today`s quote from wraith the oblivion
chilly vault
Wat
oak lily
I didn't know this channel existed I should've asked here earlier lol.
What is Hunter The Vigil like? I've heard it's very good but what's the experience?
mighty zephyr
Either you're goons about to try and kill this vampire with one shotgun and molotov cocktail between you or you're a group of highly trusted hunters that are doing Hellboy Level Shit
And everything in-between
It's very good, versatile
oak lily
I'll probably lean more into the first thing. I like the idea of a bunch of people deciding to fight monsters knowing full real they probably won't live.
There will probably also be federal agent too lol. From what i hear Reckoning had this aspect of trying to keep your life together that I hope Vigil has.
mighty zephyr
It does
oak lily
yay
radiant marsh
More specifically Vigil works by 'Tiers'
There are three of them
One is like "You're a handful of people who are aware of the supernatural and doing something about it, with no support, and no structure"
Two is an organized group, but still operating outside the bounds of normal law. Like a bunch of Union Guys who started noticing something weird around the city and are calling in favors and such. Larger, more structure, still sort of outside the bounds of legality.
Three is like you're the literal Men in Black government agency with supertech stuff, or the Catholic Church with God Powers.
Also if you can still fgind it somewhere, the Horror Recognition Guide is great inspiration
oak lily
Do I need the Chronicles Of Darkness core book to play Hunter The Vigil 2nd edition? Do they explain basic chronicle mechanics in the Vigil book?
spice abyss
Nope! Each book is self contained for Chronicles
oak lily
yay
mighty zephyr
The only thing core would give you is some extra merits
strong bronze
What existed before mankind in MAGE,if reality is the consensus of what humanity believes it to be
spice abyss
Well
clear delta
Oh, by the way, there are two versions of mage, Boxing. Ascension and Awakening. We discuss both here
mighty zephyr
I'm assuming they mean Ascension due to consensus
So!
If we take Mage at face value, no one knows, presumably creationism somehow
If we take other WoD splats at the same time there's been a race of lizard people who existed before humanity that were the "humans"
clear delta
Also God hanging around, from vampire the masquerade
mighty zephyr
also creationism yes
clear delta
Oh and demon the fallen
clear delta
*also* creationism yes
Oh oops, yes
mighty zephyr
which is also also creationism
But also reality isn't made up of consensus
because really you cannot read the theory of Consensus and how it works and how Mage fits into it's own cosmology without the entire idea itself breaking apart
orchid void
magic is lying!
clear delta
Don't trust your funny words, magic man!
mighty zephyr
My viewpoint on MtAs is genuinely that Mage avatars are actually tresspassers from other realities where rules work differently and your magic is simply invoking your own personal reality into "the source"
and Paradox is the rebound of that effect
clear delta
My viewpoint on MtAs is genuinely that Mage avatars are actually tresspassers fr...
Yeah, consensus is a confusing thing
mighty zephyr
Consensus works as a theory in-universe but should not be taken ooc
because if you think about it too hard it genuinely just does not work
spice abyss
There's also the Demon thought of "Well, humans were made in God's image. That means they can make things"
short quiver
It really has to be stressed that many of oWoD's settings presume comprehensive metaphysical cosmologies that contradict the comprehensive metaphysical cosmologies of other gamelines
orchid void
And that’s why the Week of Darkness happened
clear delta
Oh, is that the week of nightmares? I love hearing about it. Guess it'd also be called "that fucking week"
Everyone had a bad time
mighty zephyr
I'm glad they changed the Week of Nightmares
clear delta
It got changed?
zinc robin
Honestly, consensus does kinda just imply mage is merely memetic warfare at its core with some people who are really bad at it dying to paradox
zinc robin
Wait does this make high level entropy a crispr gene editor for your soul
spice abyss
Yes
zinc robin
Dope, this has no horrifying implications for wraiths
orchid void
A friend told me about a wraith that used to be a mage in a game she was in, their Shadow was their avatar telling them to kill themselves so it could reincarnate, and continue the great path of Ascension
clear delta
A low tier avatar
mighty zephyr
Do you know what really is a subtle but confusing difference between the two Mages
Awakening: The Arcana you choose to use in a spell is dictated by HOW you do the thing
Ascension: WHAT you want to do is dictated by your choice of Spheres
Like in Awakening you can conjure a fire spirit and use that to shoot fire and you can do the same thing in Ascension
but in Awakening you're using a Spirit, so you use Spirit
while in Ascension, your end result is shooting fire so you need to use Forces
chilly vault
Probably go better in Awakening if you mixed some Forces in there tho, fwiw
high hornet
What skills would a Jason Vorhees vampire be? Certainly melee
clear delta
Durability
The nwod/cofd book slashers had the category for masked silent killers be durable juggernauts
high hornet
I do have a couple of ranks in fortitude which is good for tanking
Wish there was more than just that though cause boy I get shot a lot
got athletics for grappling and crunching folk
radiant marsh
What skills would a Jason Vorhees vampire be? Certainly melee
Melee, Stamina, max Fortitude
high hornet
I do need to level my tanking as much as possible ._.
It's so expensive
Need to invest in my tanking though. I already swing pretty hard it's just gotta be tanking.
clear delta
Also, a way to detect couples to target
high hornet
I do have a buddy with Auspex so that's good
grave gulch
hey
im back
and i'm running hunter again
made my friends hunt a banshee it went well
short quiver
nice!
anyone die?
grave gulch
nah they did really well during the investigation so they managed to avoid most of it's tricks
short quiver
dope
high hornet
heyooooo skully
grave gulch
hi leika
clear delta
You missed the funny localization stuff I wanted to show you
grave gulch
me? 
grave gulch
i'm so sorry
clear delta
Is fine. You were just gone from funny mech server for a while, for whatever valid reason
grave gulch
how does the hunt for a thief mage sound like to you folks? 
a mage who's specialized in making escapes an using spells to get in and out of places? i talked about this idea before but i would like some more feedback
clear delta
Oh, awakening has a group of thief mages
grave gulch
tell me more
clear delta
Nighthawks are thieves of magical items, getting into big heists and doing heists
They go into ruins too, for the items. So they're also archaeologists
They claim items left untouched for too long lose their power
Another group are the reality stalkers. They love studying paths and cracks in reality, and love how those may be used to acquire secrets and wondrous items
A chunk of them disappears in their explorationd
While some simply admire the cracks, others are more about using them as paths to get stuff
They have a reputation as thieves and spies, bordering on kleptomania
grave gulch
so a fella like that harrassing a group of hunters for the stuff they acquire during their hunts sounds perfect 
i also wanted to have a tzimisce acting like a dr.frankenstein
high hornet
Sounds good
my vampire just threw a shovel like a god damn mortar shell
I was trying to knock someone down as they climbed away and I pitched a shovel hard enough I killed them
high hornet
I was throwing it at a mean vampire!
Not a human
"Throw a shovel"
"okay"
And then they exploded
high hornet
Throwing is dex plus celerity plus athletics
I have 4 dex and 2 celerity and four dots in athletics, with a specialty in throwing because Omar has always had a good arm. I think I was getting a +1 from somewhere else taking me up to 12 dice.
clear delta
Reminded of a story of a PC going ahead from others to chase an enemy vampire
Enemy grabbed and started punching him with celerity. Player's chest exploded and they went into torpor
grave gulch
u playing V5 Leika?
clear delta
so a fella like that harrassing a group of hunters for the stuff they acquire du...
Yup. Don't remember their powers, but I think they could activate items witgout touching them
And maybe operate devices and security systems?
grave gulch
yeah i was thinking stuff like that
velvet sparrow
u playing V5 Leika?
V20
high hornet
yeah playing V20
grave gulch
wowie
clear delta
Me: today I'll read euthanatoi revised
Weird image of a dancer with nipples poking through her clothes
Me: what the fuck
zinc robin
I wanna press the funny button in V5 and take the 5 dot merit from the Carthage loresheet
However it feels to very clearly be a trap seeing as this feels like an open invitation to be killed simultaneously by hunters, the Camarilla, the Technocracy, and any werewolves in the area
mighty zephyr
Me: today I'll read euthanatoi revised
Weird image of a dancer with nipples poki...
WoD babyyyyyyyyyyy
zinc robin
Like, it specifies that the mortal government won't intervene... which, uh, is suspiciously not saying it's safe
zinc robin
Then again arguably if you're powerful enough to take Carthage Anew you don't care that most everyone else in vampiric society is about to try to delete you to preserve the status quo alongside any hunters or werewolves
(or you just die immediately, either or)
mighty zephyr
Well the werewolves probably wouldn't drop everything to attack you
zinc robin
I feel like the Camarilla would
mighty zephyr
Lupines assume vampires are in every city, but they have bigger concerns on a day-to-day
oh prolly
zinc robin
Like all the merit says is the human government won't
mighty zephyr
To be fair that's your actual main concern
The other ones are significantly less scary in comparison
zinc robin
I mean yeah but if there's one thing that would get an immediate response from the Camarilla, choosing to end the Masquerade would be it
(if the Technocracy existed they'd likely also probably delete you on the spot because open acknowledgement that vampires exist couldn't possibly shift the consensus in their favor)
mighty zephyr
(This is why the Technocracy is a lame setting element and should be nerfed or ignored)
sour zephyr
I wanna press the funny button in V5 and take the 5 dot merit from the Carthage ...
what's that one again?
zinc robin
"Carthage Anew" where you pick a city to be the new Carthage and delete the masquerade there
For that amazing ability to play Vampire: The Masquerade but without that pesky masquerade part
orchid void
Remember
The purpose of merits is not to buff your dude, it’s to make a bouquet of knives for the gm
orchid void
So what is death! Die historic :3
orchid void
dying in a cool way is winning in games like WoD and Cyberpunk
clear delta
Huh, taoism doesn't seem to pop up much on ascension? Akashics seem more Buddhist
supple quail
"Carthage Anew" where you pick a city to be the new Carthage and delete the masq...
so you just. immediately magically dropped the masquerade? that sounds hilariously fun
zinc robin
No, but I sure wanted to
supple quail
ah ok, it works that way though?
zinc robin
Not... quite. The implications are that you set up agreements with the mortals and arranged for a city to effectively become the new Carthage, saying to work with your Storyteller to work out the specifics- the Masquerade isn't exactly magic itself, after all
Though it is just "pick a city to just not have the Masquerade anymore" mechanically
spice abyss
clear delta
Invisible out of anxiety
Invisible so people don't bother you
Invisible to prank people/produce puzzles people must solve to know and interact with you
Invisible because you can't afford visibility
high hornet
in truth this feels like it would be an interesting one to explore disabilities with
Invisible because of accident
Invisible from birth
Invisible by perception ignoring you but physically present
Invisible by uncontrolled shapeshifting
spice abyss
It would be very fun to explore, ye
radiant marsh
In WoD we call that splat Deviant
heady kestrel
In WoD we call that splat Deviant
While I feel like you could make an invisible man situation a deviant, just like you could make {literally any mythical creature} a beast, I feel like its more interesting to speculate what they would be like as their own splat
Like {invisibility} as a core thematic concept has a lot you can explore in it
The thing I always jump to is [being made to feel invisible] as in isolated
Your someone who no one gave a fuck about to the point you just sorta, ceased to fully exist
And became a weird invisible thing
short quiver
that was a Buffy episode, right?
patent talon
The thing I always jump to is [being made to feel invisible] as in isolated
Yo...
That does have some wiggle room for splat concepts.
You were actively rejected and exiled from your community.
You were forgotten due to disinterest and neglect.
You were rendered a non-person by pure bad luck.
You made a choice to withdraw from society and be forgotten.
You were never included in society from the outset.
heady kestrel
Yeah!
clear delta
Maybe you can create an area where invisible people have the effects of their condition attenuated
The creation of a safe social space
patent talon
somber scarab
That does have some wiggle room for splat concepts.
You were actively rejected a...
And then the non-playable sixth one is the Circle of Gyges, those that purposefully sought it out for their own (implicitly nefarious) ends
clear delta
Dungeon meshi, but in the shadow/underworld/astral
high hornet
Omar is going to do his best for that. He knows how to cook and he will cook whatever he can.
grave gulch
is the lizard king fighting the nazis in the hollow earth?
high hornet
Everyone should fight nazis everywhere
grave gulch
yeah but i want to know if the lizards are eating their flesh 
high hornet
Most likely
clear delta
Omar is going to do his best for that. He knows how to cook and he will cook wha...
Excellent
Cthonic gods: no, you can't just survivalist cook your way through our cruel laws!
Who's Omar?
high hornet
the good news is he has a throwing arm like a rocket as well which is useful when facing the horrors
clear delta
Funny mage the ascension idea: mage who awakened from seeing people come into being from how well she lied to others
"Oh shit, the ex-girlfriend from Canada is real now?"
open roost
is it just werewolves and vampires that are especially weak to fire, or does that apply to wraiths and stuff
velvet sparrow
Vampires are the only ones particularly weak to fire
radiant marsh
Werewolves are affected by fire normally
And in 20A at least have a mostly universally-available level 1 gift that makes it do bashing damage
grave gulch
question
could i mess up a werewolf if i had some kind of chemical like ammonia? would the strong smell be able to mess with their senses?
consider that i have a lot of it
high hornet
I think Mummy's also don't enjoy fire. And the frankenstein folk.
And if you're asking if you can effectively scent bomb a werewolf... prooobably, yes. But I'm not sure it'd do much more than make them pissed off.
versed zodiac
I feel like the answer is yes in the sense that they wouldn't be able to track you that way, but no in the sense that it wouldn't really harm them
unless the chemical is strong enough to actively damage their noses/lungs upon inhalation
mighty zephyr
In WtF fire does bashing damage to werewolves
and in W5 Fire does aggravated just like silver does
open roost
ok
clear delta
Imagery that came to me
You walk into streets/alleys that feel weirdly empty. It's snowing or raining. A strange woman is on a walk there, and you disturbed it. Feels like a different land. You figure out how to not offend further, feels like she has different rules of etiquette, and walk off
grave gulch
sooo
turns out i have a little more time to prepare the banshee encounter we didnt have a game this week
dense vault
Yeah you could probably hide your scent from a werewolf using chemicals. But also any chemical that strong would probably not be good to put on your cloths or skin.
grave gulch
neat
chilly vault
can I hide my scent from werewolves using chlorine gas
high hornet
I might have just stabbed a nazi wizard in the soul. Couldn't have happened to a better person.
high hornet
Hooow good is Obtenebration 4?
The extra attack per turn it seems?
I suppose it would be pretty darn handy
grave gulch
Leika 
grave gulch
i wanna use a werebat
and a wereshark
dullahan
and a hellhound too
too many choices
grave gulch
FRIENDS
i need your feedback
there's a gming event that's going to happen soon
i wanna take part
the theme is weird stuff which means wod is on the table!
you think i can handle gming mage the awakening or maybe Deviant: the renegade? knowing i only ever done hunter as a gm?
high hornet
I think it's always good to go in to potentially difficult situations with stuff you know well. Why not do hunter?
supple quail
you can always give it a try, but specifically an event isn't necessarily the best time to try new things
why not do a test one shot and get some practice?
clear delta
On the topic of mage. Thinking about a thyrsus focusing on the relationship between people and places. How you change places you live in, and how they change you
Observes and probes places to learn about them, and also alters them to be more beneficial
grave gulch
i'll make this adventure a spin off in my own hunter universe just to make things more fun for me, wont mean much to the guys in the event
velvet sparrow
Okay! So I finally watched Hunter the Parenting Episode 4
grave gulch
Question
The thing of the get of fenris and nazis
It was like some of em became nazis? Not all of em?
Like i know they suck in general
Just .w. dont really wanna use em if all of em went nazi
short quiver
So, in-universe, not all of them were Nazis.
Actually, the second...? Maybe third? can't recall but anyway
When they were still doing the short comic books at the start of Tribe Books the intro fiction was of German-American and German Get fighting each other in WWII
The explicitly neo-Nazi part of the GoF were cordoned off in their own Tribe Lodge and at some point in the canonical timeline the rest of the Tribe got sick of it and killed them all
& later books (by 20th Anniversary, I think?) were making point that the Get don't worship the Aesir, because in point of fact Fenrir and the Aesir had a bit of a falling out and don't get on in the slightest.
All that said "we're gonna make the Germanic werewolves the biggest warrior culture pure breeding guys in the game and their Tribe sigil looks an awful lot like a swastika" is a whole series of choices that were made and might make them not worth trying to rehabilitate
grave gulch
Oh so is more like an old bad idea they had?
mighty zephyr
So in 1st edition they were nazis
then in 2nd edition they killed the nazis and said "we'll never become nazis again"
then in 20th the Nazis were retconned as being alive
And now in 5th Edition the Get of Fenris are the Cult of Fenris and are now somehow the most tolerant they have ever been portrayed.
short quiver
The whole thing with W:tA to me is that, on the one hand, its direct and intentional parallels and commentary on real life were mind-boggling to me when I picked it up, like, transformative to my concept of what an RPG could be or say
But also there's just so much cack-handed 90s nerd ideas in there
radiant marsh
Honestly, if they wanted a tribe to go rogue it really should have been the Red Talons
mighty zephyr
That's the most cowardly option
"Yeah I know they speak for the natural world and the current treatment of wolves is borderline genocidal from the perspective of a sentient wolf but I want my iPhone so make them evil lol lmao"
radiant marsh
I was thinking more along the lines of their entire MO prior to 5e basically being 'kill all humans'
Not that I thought it'd happen, because I didn't think they'd actually make a Gaian tribe go rogue, but whatever.
mighty zephyr
I mean the Get were already fairly rogue
Considering they'd attacked most of the other tribes en masse several times throughout history
something the Red Talons never actually did
radiant marsh
So did the Fianna. And the Shadow Lords. And the Silver Fangs, the Black Furies... It's kind of a running theme.
mighty zephyr
The other tribes attacked each other but I mean the Get attacked everyone else
radiant marsh
The Get were the most aggressive about it, but 'The Garou are their own worst enemy' was still something that was hammered home very bluntly.
mighty zephyr
Yeah idk what the Silent Strider history is at all
radiant marsh
Strider history is 'we got kicked out of Egypt and all our ancestor spirits were walled off/destroyed by Sutekh, and now we're nomadic'
mighty zephyr
Yeah I know that much
short quiver
wait
were the Striders WtA's Roma splat
grave gulch
you folks think we'll have a 5th edition of mage?
velvet sparrow
Many.
grave gulch
was the lore yucky the same way werewolf was?
velvet sparrow
Lots of the traditional White Wolf Issues, relating to other cultures (Eurocentric, not actually knowing anything about them beyond stereotypes, etc.)
Some if it was, absolutely
grave gulch
right right
i also remember something about it being needlessly complicated
I think i asked this before but i think i only asked this regarding the abyss
could i run awakening but in WoD? at least when it comes to other splats?
cause i kind of like how wod feels like today 
the organizations and stuff
high current
No reason why not, have fun with the game however you want as long as all people actively involved consent 
radiant marsh
As an Old Edition Enjoyer, I'd still change at least half of everything before trying to run most of it.
There's no 'right' way to run WoD
crystal fern
you folks think we'll have a 5th edition of mage?
If they don't make one I would be surprised. It's one of the more popular gamelines and translating V5 hunger mechanics into paradox would be fairly straightforward
mighty zephyr
You'll be able to know if they make a Mage 5 because I will constantly be covered in blood with the skin on my knuckles worn down to the bone telling people that racism is bad.
clear delta
If they *don't* make one I would be surprised. It's one of the more popular game...
Don't know those mechanics, whya re they good for paradox?
mighty zephyr
You replace your spellcasting pool with Paradox Dice
and if you botch you fuck up
ez pz lemon squeezy
radiant marsh
For 'horrible cosmic backlash' levels of fuck up
grave gulch
i almost didnt recognize voy without the old pfp
mighty zephyr
i have rebranded into chilchuck
mighty zephyr
and divorced
high hornet
But three daughters
chilly vault
<:vicksyBork:996566504311099533> could i run awakening but in WoD? <:vicksyBork...
The main challenge here is that Awakening, like a lot of NWoD, eschews correct answers in its lore almost as a rule
grave gulch
i dont get what u mean
grave gulch
@chilly vault explain 
chilly vault
NWoD, generally speaking, is more interested in creating mysteries than it is solving them
Different parties will have a multitude of different perspectives and there will often not be a clear indication of who is right
OWoD, at least in my limited impression of it, is more likely to have answers
Vampires are the spawn of Cain
As opposed to "who the fuck knows where vampires came from"
That doesn't necessarily mean M:tAw is incompatible with OWoD
Just that I feel like there's some amount of dissonance in the approaches
velvet sparrow
I mean, "Vampires are the spawn of Cain" isn't really actually that relevant, unless you're doing a campaign about where vampires come from I feel?
orchid void
But it’s a FACT that Masquerade gives as part of its pitch that Requiem don’t- oWoD loves to lay out The Truth of Secret Histories, whereas nWoD is more concerned with using the shape of things- less definitive and looser in lacking a canon
velvet sparrow
Fair
chilly vault
Aye, I wasn't saying that in particular matters
Just that it's a really easy example of the difference in atmosphere
(This is one of the things that makes me feel in some ways that nWoD has more thought put into This Is A Game People Will Play as opposed to oWoD's "look at our cool urban fantasy/horror universe would you like to play in it")
(oWoD wants you to play in the World of Darkness)
velvet sparrow
Yeah
chilly vault
And of course you as an MtAw-in-oWoD Storyteller can toss whatever details are in your way, or you can stick to the specific rules of that universe, but it's a choice to make
grave gulch
so it's doable i just have to think on some details first then
radiant marsh
Though if we're honest, nWoD initially was so concerned about avoiding strict metaplot that they forgot to write any actual setting or flavor. That's definitely a problem that got solved later on, though.
Like in 2e it's nonexistant
(And WtF 2e is still the best Werewolf game)
grave gulch
honestly i just wanted my mage game to be connected in someway to my hunter game a game wouldnt affect the other mind you
radiant marsh
That's a perfectly cromulent idea
clear delta
Yeah. And the more core stuff to mtaw wouldn't interefere or be interfered by hunter
The supernal and abyss are in their "corners", mage orders are doing their thing, poking supernal phenomena, or poking other supernatural phenomena
chilly vault
Run a game for me skully
I will play an otter wizard
It will be very confusing since this is World of Darkness
grave gulch
Cute
grave gulch
question
i dont understand this
from what i understand you can only have 2 ruiling arcana, at least is what it says here
what do you mean those are possible combinations? 
somber scarab
So the paragraph sets out the rules for where you ut the six dots
And then you have the 5 possible combos as a result of those rules
clear delta
Yeah. There are rules to your starting arcana, thus there are a few specific combos you can star with
None can be above your path arcana
At least three in your starting arcana
And at gnosis 1 you can have only one arcana at 3
somber scarab
Note that if you're eg. an Acanthus, your ruling arcana are Fate and Time, but you're free to choose like Life 3, Fate 2, Time 1
clear delta
Huh?
grave gulch
clear delta
Note that if you're eg. an Acanthus, your ruling arcana are Fate and Time, but y...
What do you mean, you path arcana have to be highest at char creation, right?
somber scarab
It does not actually say that!
clear delta
Huh
somber scarab
A fun effect of these rules is that AFAICT you can find a path for any specialist/balanced distribution of 5 dots, only the 6th dot is (possibly) forced
There are a few impossible generalist sets of arcana, such as Death, Forces, Matter, Mind, Spirit (inferiors from all 5 paths)
Wait I'm wrong, there's illegal 3-arcana and 4-arcana sets too
somber scarab
I'm making it more complicated than it needs to be TBH
Picking a path and then picking arcana is much simpler than playing weird games to figure out what path you're stuck with
grave gulch
right right
radiant marsh
If they're the like random dudes with torches, guns, and baseball bats, then I'd say yes, probably
If they're the Imbued sort with actual supernatural powers, then no.
In HtR terms, Tier 1: Yes, Tier 2: It Depends, Tier 3: No
radiant marsh
If they have literal supernatural powers they're not going to trigger it.
If they're Just Dudes ™️ with a bit of dangerous knowledge, they still count as Sleepers
However, if this is a problem, you could say that their exposure to the supernatural has made them akin to whatever the Sleepwalker equivalent in Ascension is.
Basically mortal that has enough awareness that they haven't Awakened, but they also don't cause paradox
grave gulch
Cool
orchid void
Paradox also Just Happens when you Reach too far and fuck your spell
So don’t think you’re safe just because the Sleepers can’t see
Paradox answers the sin of Pride
non are safe
orchid void
Nah paradox happens because the Demiurge is real and hates you
spice abyss
In HtR terms, Tier 1: Yes, Tier 2: It Depends, Tier 3: No
T3 is still a Maybe.
grave gulch
Whats the demiurge
spice abyss
TFV or TCG is still in "Probably"
So the Demiurge is actual occultism stuff.
So, in short, a question you ask if you're ready for some lore
grave gulch
📖 
radiant marsh
The tl;dr
(This is IRL occultism, not Mage)
The Demiurge is the creator of the physical world, and not the true God. And the goal of the Demiurge is to keep souls away from enlightenment by rooting them in the physical and making it impossible to access the metaphysical.
So basially it's 'the real world.' Concrete reality.
And Paradox in Mage is the Mage going "I think I should be able to shoot fireballs!" And then reality and the laws of physics go "lol no" and your spell blows up in your face.
midnight grotto
Yeah Awakening doesn't have quite the same thing but several elements are similar to the Demiurge
But also yeah read the actual book
It's easy to get your perception skewed by memes and other people's interpretations
grave gulch
Will do!
versed zodiac
People love namedropping the Demiurge for occult cred the same way some people namedrop Compton
spice abyss
Always love it when people go "Mummy stories seem like they'd be boring"
Meanwhile I'm looking at the enforced time paradoxes
And loose relationship with causality.
spice abyss
Agreed!
It's on the list of RPGs I can't run for a very different reason than something like Promethean or Changeling.
My usual group size of four or five people would be difficult for Mummy.
grave gulch
Also something i couldnt find yet
Can you avoid a paradox in awakening the same way you do in Ascension?
Like i convince you that i planted a bomb under your car
So it doesnt look like im breaking reality
clear delta
Okay so
In awakening, if sleepers don't notice supernatural stuff is going on, you only worry about paradox if you overreached
(Abyssal phenomena and scelesti also cause paradox too, but won't be your worry most of the time)
You don't need to worry about an hypithetical universal observer like in ascension
If sleepers might see things, then you try to disguise your spell as something mundane
Like claiming to your sleeper buddies you totally planted a bomb there in advance
grave gulch
I think i get the idea
spice abyss
So Awakening 1e has some magic as Vulgar, and some as Subtle.
Some shit you can't logic your way out of.
If you do it, Paradox is coming.
But if you just nudge natural processes along....
Or just do really small things.
It won't bite you unless a Sleeper goes "Hey, that's weird."
In 2e, it's overreaching, with things made worse by Sleeper presence.
You have to work pretty hard to cause Paradox.
grave gulch
Does making your magic look mundane still help in 2e?
spice abyss
No. The process of your magic and not overreaching matter more.
To be perfectly frank, I do not like 2e Paradox.
It takes all the threat of Paradox away.
And it asks RPG players "Hey, do you want to take a mechanical risk?"
Which is a question that is almost always answered "No"
midnight grotto
Seems like a table issue but also I do think it could stand to have more teeth
spice abyss
Seems like a table issue but also I do think it could stand to have more teeth
That's why I don't like it. It makes Paradox a non-consistent threat, because it's in the players hands to decide if they want to make it a problem.
midnight grotto
I do like how it can create situations like, "okay in order to not blow my Reach budget we're going to have to spend an hour chanting around this pentagram"
spice abyss
Oh, that is the vibes of it I love.
It makes you feel more like a wizard than someone trying to exploit a physics engine.
midnight grotto
A big Aw1 gripe was that magic just boiled down to "willpower" rather than actual esoteric practices, which I think was undeserved, but I thought 2 did a lot to counter that
spice abyss
I did prefer the Vulgar/Subtle divide though.
spice abyss
No clue.
clear delta
Didn't quite see how vulgar and subtle worked
spice abyss
Let's say you wanted to do the ever popular trick of "I make boom"
If you are trying to just make an explosion out of nothing, with none of the required first steps from reality?
That's Vulgar.
But let's say you just make a smaller scale explosion first, and then use magic to make it better than it should be.
That's Subtle.
clear delta
Ah interesting
I remember an actual play by DaveB had a city where vulgar spells were forbidden outside buildings belonging to mages
Or something like that.
spice abyss
That is just an inbuilt safety mesaure for everyone.
Standing rule from Consiliums in my games is this: If you're stupid enough to cause a Paradox, you had better damn well hold it in your patttern, especially if doing so would kill you.
Take your lumps, and do not make it everyone else's problem.
chilly vault
do hunters trigger paradoxes?
100%, even some lesser supernatural beings still count as Sleepers and can cause disbelief.
clear delta
100%, even some lesser supernatural beings still count as Sleepers and can cause...
What?
You sure?
spice abyss
Absolutely.
clear delta
Why today I keep being blindsided by stuff
Thought having such close contact with the supernatural purged the abyssal shard. If I run a table, it'll be what I go with
grave gulch
and i like the 1e idea for paradox
The thing about needing to disguise your spells in the present of sleepers i really like
Probably something i can implement into my own games
Would that be a bad idea?
im mostly worried if it would mess with the games balance
Considering theres a new paradox mechanic and all that
radiant marsh
Not really new
5e Mage hasn't even been announced yet
But I'd say it's a good idea
Given it's one that literally comes up in the book
It basically comes down to just like "Would the effect be logical in the current environment"
So shooting lightning at something = vulgar
But doing it in the middle of a thunderstorm where there's plausible deniability = some wiggle room
grave gulch
right right
midnight grotto
So this is for NPCs in a Hunter game right?
grave gulch
Give me a sec
unkempt locust
5e Mage hasn't even been announced yet
I seriously hope they don't because W5 was a disappointment
grave gulch
So this is for NPCs in a Hunter game right?
ok so
i decided i also wanted to run Mage the awakening
but i'm not super thrilled about how the paradox works there
grave gulch
So shooting lightning at something = vulgar
like this thing with the vulgar spells is something i really liked
radiant marsh
I mean that's literally how it works in the MtAw 1e book
grave gulch
i was asking about how possible it would be to use that in my own games genome 
radiant marsh
So did 2e get rid of that or something?
According to google they did get rid of that
Hmmm
grave gulch
seems like it works in a different way yes
radiant marsh
Still, no reason you couldn't use it