World of Darkness

[high current]

(alternatively shove them in a robot body made out of an anti-magic metal i can't remember the name of)

[open roost]

ok cool

[high hornet]

Hey so I joked about spent uranium swords with my ST and he made a thoughtful noise and is writing stuff

I worry I have made life harder

[clear delta]

Zeky weapon

[high hornet]

what's a zeky?

[clear delta]

Alchemical artificial person (promethean), subtype powered by radiation

They have a harder time becoming human (the new dawn)

From what I saw, 2ed had good ideas for them, but screwed up some rules, likely due to a head dev being arrested midway in the night horrors book's development

Zeky are weird compared to other prometheans

Hazardous

[orchid void]

Well Leika is playing Masquerade so they don’t exactly gotta worry that much

[radiant marsh]

Zeky constantly emit radiation, and if they stay in the same location for too long they basically turn the area into a mini Chornobyl Exclusion Zone.

[clear delta]

In 1e, they also caused paranoia and dustrust in an area

[sudden shoal]

never a dull moment in WoD

[candid shadow]

So I’m thinking of running a vampire game, and from what I know of it would you guys say “you’re at the bottom of vampire society trying to claw your way to the top” is a good vibe for it?

[sudden shoal]

pretty default start yeah

[candid shadow]

Ok sick

[high hornet]

It's a good default start yeah, if you wanted a little twist that would be okay but it's really sturdy

[clear delta]

It's part of the punk appeal

[high hornet]

I'm not sure if we might have to worry about prometheans, we've had much too much meetings with odd folk. we've had an accidental Fae encounter.

For all I know I'm going to find myself with a spine of a Zeky to lash about as a sword

[candid shadow]

What generally makes for a good low status vampire besides being newly embraced?

[high hornet]

If you want them to feel like a pawn then having stupid fights and one of them being torpored and dragged into elysium

[candid shadow]

What’s that?

[high hornet]

Have them rack up favours

Torpor is when you're beaten up hard enough that you're out of health but you're not dead, you're just unconscious

Elysium is like a city wide safe house/meeting place

[clear delta]

Prometheans are a cofd thing. Possible to be transplanted into your setting, but unlikely.
(Forgot to mention, zeka is the singular. It means prisoner. I think their origin is soviet experiments?)

[high hornet]

it's a safe place people can go if they need some medical repair after being shot to pieces

[candid shadow]

Ahh ok

So kinda, immediately show them they’re at the bottom of the pecking order

[high hornet]

But like it's run by someone so of COURSE you'll owe them money for all the blood needed

[candid shadow]

Oh medical debt

[high hornet]

But in favours

rather than direct money

[candid shadow]

What clan do you think would be best for that idea?

Beating them up, sending them to the hospital and getting them in debt for the favor

[high hornet]

Beating them up can be anyone, all they need to do is have a clash

[candid shadow]

Ah ok

[high hornet]

the party should then know that hey if you're in trouble you can take your guy here

[candid shadow]

I assume there’s like, big consequences for starting a fight in an Elysium?

[high hornet]

and usually whoever is running the city runs the elysium, but it can be anyone they're friendly with

Oh IN an Elysium can get you killed in most cities

[candid shadow]

Ah ok

[high hornet]

It's like... you start a fight in the local scrap yard, trying to do something for your sire (their car got repossessed because it was sitting in the same spot for three years and they didn't notice). Someone in the party gets fucked up, people need blood to heal, they know to go to Elysium.

[velvet sparrow]

Using Disciplines in Elysium is also flat-out prohibited

[candid shadow]

Ah I was imagining more like a scam where someone gets someone else to start a fight with them, and then supplies the blood for the Elysium and thus gets them to owe them favors

[high hornet]

The main thing is just getting people tied up into owing favours over nad over

It could be, definitely, but it also doesn't need to be exactly.

If you wanted to have them be that full scam like that, go with Ventrue as the rulers

they're the plotting bastards

[candid shadow]

I do think maybe it would be better if it’s not a scam thinking about it more

I think it might work better for the tone I’m going for if this is just the only real option they have

[high hornet]

The biggest ties that bind are the ones that are all agreed upon.

[velvet sparrow]

They're Vampires, they're all plotting bastards

[high hornet]

yeah but Ventrue are like the ones who think they're special because of it

The main thing is Sires tend to ask people to do dumb shit, which gets balls rolling, and then people fuck up or need help and that's how you start getting stuff tied up in favours of like an overall plot that you want to get them tied to.

[mighty zephyr]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/727099049957654579/1247267607313383464/tumblr_140888d94c5c6e91099d465376546f4f_1ea32892_540.gif?ex=665f67fa&is=665e167a&hm=2e236804feec75d7f952be008e1905e93b2da89bb5da54d4d26ed7713accb050&

I have found the vibe for my fuckin Werewolf

It is this

[high hornet]

A thing to think about for low power vampires:
They're going to need blood. Where are they going to find blood? Well they could go hunting for it themselves on the streets. That's how you have mistakes happen. Sloppy hunts, dead people, things that need cleaning up quietly, so favours are owed.
Or maybe they won't hunt, maybe they'll go to places like a blood bank or a club, try to find somewhere nice and dark and safe for vampires to hunt. Of course all these places are owned already. Vampires make vampire friendly environments after all, and they'll let them use them, maybe even trade with them, for something. So the players get a choice. Try to steal, sneak or talk their way past mortals looking after the place, which will only last so long, or the vampire who owns the place will ask them to do a favour for them for a regular and safe place to hunt.

It's hard to break out of the circle.

[candid shadow]

So generally it should be an inherent downward cycle of either

A. They try and work outside the existing power structures, extremely likely to fail and require help from powerful people to clean up, thus making them owe someone (besides their sire anyway)

Or B. They work within the existing power structures of their local sect, which already requires they owe powerful people favors because they’re letting them use their stuff

Either way they’ll owe someone

[high hornet]

Exactly. And the general method that they will find to break out of this cycle is to become stronger, usually by doing favours and the like, and taking advantage of situations made by the plans of others. This might mean they backstab the fuck out of someone, or they get in good and power grab on the back of someone else.

[candid shadow]

And then probably backstab them later anyway

[high hornet]

yeah that's usually how it goes

backstabbing is the third oldest profession

(I believe the first one to do it was Caine after all, haha)

[candid shadow]

Yah huh

With the Bible being actually literal history

Vampires are literally the descendants of the first backstabber

[clear delta]

"Who will pray for me, when I am gone!? Or is this the eternal dark without a dawn!?", such good lines.

[candid shadow]

I should watch nerdy prudes must die

[clear delta]

I knew what the other nerds sang, but only now managed to separate and hear them properly from Max and Richie.

[spice abyss]

It's pretty good.

I could easily use it as a hook for a game.

[candid shadow]

Nerdy prudes must die watched

Good musical

Nerdy prudes sure did die

https://youtu.be/pfCq-k-PxnI?si=N-0RkNiXEYFEp_uG

Hatchet Town was the best song btw

[spice abyss]

It is indeed a good one.

I'm partial to The Summoning myself.

https://youtu.be/oj1bCvF-7WE?si=XZWMP8QvKmUAzrLc

[candid shadow]

It’s a good one

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juq0coCVleI

it's one of those things I really like animated vs live

it's so cartoony

[candid shadow]

Oh that animation is sick

[spice abyss]

Indeed it is!

But yeah, would be a wonderful VASCU hook.

"Oh hey, this sleepy little town has some pretty weird killings going on that probably fall under our jurisdiction."

"Wait, these kids are trying to do what to stop it?"

"Oh. Oh no. Oh no no no no. Quick, we gotta arrest the ghost!"

[clear delta]

Lmao. Guess the Lords in Black are inferno entities?

Figuring out blood bather ritual that's alchemy is fun. Though promethean does mention an actual group of immortal alchemist, that Daughters of something cult

[spice abyss]

The Lords in Black are very textbook Inferno entities, ye.

[mighty zephyr]

Of all the songs on my Beast's playlist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efuS4i1BlKg

This is unironically the one I think encapsulates the feel I like about Beast the most.

[open roost]

might do the funniest thing possible for my first ever WoD chronicle

all of the players except one are the same type of monster, the other is going to be a mage

this is a terrible fucking idea but its funny and the only game one of them is interested in is mage so idk

[velvet sparrow]

Hm I think that is a very bad idea

[open roost]

yeah i'm definitely not fucking doing that

[mighty zephyr]

It sounds funny but it really won't be unless the Mage player really is a facilitator rather than a Mage Gamer (TM)

[open roost]

im fairly new to WoD, what do you mean by that?

[versed zodiac]

some people are really into Mage because of the powerlevels and the munchkin shittery it permits

it's kind of an odd one out amongst the WoD games in that sense

[orchid void]

Some people are into mage for occult brain poison reasons and they are the valid ones (me)

[versed zodiac]

lmfao

[short quiver]

So, not to speak for Voy, but as someone who has been a Mage fan for a minute and so I say this with love
In a broad setting where every kind of ghoulie, ghostie, and long-leggedy beasty has its own metaphysical take and worldview that's either tangential or outright contradictory with the others, Mage tends to be the one whose fanbase insists they're the ones who know the other settings better than they know themselves
Combined with the most (intentionally) broken power set in the setting it can lead to a certain self-centeredness

[open roost]

ok well none of us have played WoD in any capacity idk if thats possible

[chilly vault]

Much of the delight of Mage on its own is wielding and not wielding phenomenal cosmic power. This is ... not great as an addition to a group of Vampires?

Or whatever splat you're talking about

[open roost]

honestly the way the talks are going we might just play mage

[chilly vault]

Is this Ascension or Awakening?

(I do not know Ascension well but I adore Awakening)

[open roost]

uhhhhh

which would be easier

or like, whats the difference

[chilly vault]

Ascension is Old World of Darkness, and is all about like ... Mages struggling against an evil conspiracy that want to force a particular consensus reality on everyone.

[open roost]

that much ive gathered

[chilly vault]

Awakening is New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness, and tells the story of Mages navigating a world fallen from grace and struggling against the forces (human and otherwise) who want to keep it that way

Awakening places a big thematic emphasis on hubris

And also on the world being big and strange and dark and wonderful

It is my favorite splat :)

[short quiver]

Well, fundamentally, Awakening (nWoD/ Chronicles of Darkness) is more directly and literally about playing wizards. You get magic by being enlightened to the higher Truth and get more powerful by learning more secret mage lore. The reason it can't work for most people is that there's a separation between the Truth and the Fallen World, enforced by the secret masters of the world.

In Ascension (oWoD/WoD) reality operates by consensus. A Mage is someone who can use the fact that they know magick works to make magick work for them, whatever the general opinion on the topic is.

[clear delta]

Ascension lets whatever anyone believes be true
Awakening has Truth, covered in many metaphors and paths

Oh fuck, I was late

[short quiver]

They're both very good games.
My preference is Awakening but reasonable people can disagree on this.

[clear delta]

I remember Dave B commenting how, enlightenment in awakening is very personal. You're following your own theories and philosophies to reach truth, and will compete with other mages for Mysteries and resources. Selfishness may get incentivized.

Mages are Bastards. Los Angeles is a good example. They set a system, since some sleepers there, the dreamers, are valuable research subjects. A mage may stake a "claim" on a dreamer, being the first and basically calling dibs. They enter their social circle, or even install/hack cameras to watch them

Hubris comes in. You have power, you can get away with things, and Mysteries are oh so enticing to you

So discarding restraint for mysteries becomes tempting

And further magical knowledge makes you stronger, letting you cause more trouble

Course you can resist. But other mages are still bastards, and you'll have to deal with them, and their impact on the world

Also, there may come situations, where hubris becomes enticing for the sake of your loved ones

[radiant marsh]

I could never really get into Awakening, but then again my only real introduction to it was the 1e core back in the day, which was...

Well let's be honest here. 1e had an issue with "No metaplot means no real background flavor period" in general, and Mage apparently got the absolute worst of it.

Which is kind of a bummer because I was, and remain, very curious about it.

[clear delta]

2e is fun

Oh, from 1e, heard the Guardians of the Veil book was good?

[radiant marsh]

Don't think I have that one.

Pretty sure I have the Mysterium book somewhere

They were my favorite faction splat

[clear delta]

Also, the atlantis stuff got way turned down in 2e. Since it was silly, took up too much lore space.
And turns out real life occults talking about atlantis, chances are they're racists talking about their idealized society from the past

[radiant marsh]

As much as I love like 'lost civilization' fantasy tropes, you scratch the surface of that stuff IRL and you start running into White Supremacists pretty quickly.

[mighty zephyr]

I literally have never read a 1e core of anything CofD

[radiant marsh]

I'm biased, but IMO Werewolf was the clear winner there.

In that it actually felt like a complete game with its own lore, whereas Mage was Mage, and Vampire basically just came off as Masquerade with the serial numbers filed off.

[clear delta]

Signs of sorcery is a nice awakening 2e book. Lots of interesting mechanics. Such as for crafting, which also comes with explanations of how the item trade works, how you mark your magical signature, its place in society, intentionally cursed items.
Or the grimoire stuff, which got similarly detailed. You can build a plot around those grimoires, or make your character's job creating grimoires a significant part of their life and reputation

[short quiver]

Awakening 1st Ed was great, it's just that most of the best stuff was either hidden in random sections of the corebook or didn't show up until the supplements

[radiant marsh]

The scariest thing in MtA 1e, was buried in a supplement

[clear delta]

Didn't see tome of the pentacle (that's the new one, right?) but sounds cool

[clear delta]

Intruders encounters with the abyss

[radiant marsh]

And that was a random Grimoire that was an analog recording of a Seance that accidentally netted an Abyssal entity

[short quiver]

Tome of Summoning...

Also one of MtAw's supplements statted out Legally-Not-Tom-Cruise as a Banisher

He had an Athletics speciality in Running

[mighty zephyr]

Tome of the Pentacle is pretty good yeah

Also I have read a few 1e Mage books

Main one I actually chunked through was the Adamantine Arrow book

which I remember liking a lot

[orchid void]

Night Horrors: The Unbidden and Summoners are worth reading

[open roost]

i will ask, because despite WoD in general not being a combat based game, i know what me and my friends are about: how is the fighting in mage. like, does magic factor into all the shit you can do or what

[mighty zephyr]

By the time they got to 20th Mage was definitely a combat focused game

and in fact was weirdly simulationist and maxiamalist about it's combat

[open roost]

OH THAT GOT ME EXCITED

[mighty zephyr]

(It's not exactly a good thing)

[open roost]

oh

[midnight grotto]

So like. WoD (and CofD) is presented as sort of a horror-slash-political-maneuvering game where combat is on the table, but in my experience it usually plays out so that big story beats tend to involve what amounts to boss fights.

And there's a ton of powers specifically for fighting.

[open roost]

i mean yeah, ive read almost all of werewolf 5th edition, and that seems to be the vibe ive picked up from liveplays

i meant like, how do mages specifically fight

[radiant marsh]

TBF, Werewolf is very much on the 'FIGHT' end of the spectrum

[mighty zephyr]

If we are talking about Mages specifically uh "Literally every way"

[patent talon]

A Werewolves Vs Cheiron Group chronicle could be fun

Trying to patrol the gauntlet while also fighting off guys with werewolf claws implanted in their hands

Hunter becoming the hunted and vice versa

[radiant marsh]

Supers vs Hunters is always a fun campaign

[candid shadow]

So a player gave me their idea for a vampire character

An expressionist graffiti artist embraced into the Toreador

Who escaped their sire after they realized they were going to be forced to spend immortality painting portraits

[open roost]

behind like, the nosferatu, i'd bet good money to say that the toreador have got it the worst, they're just pretty enough to hide it

[candid shadow]

Why?

[mighty zephyr]

I'd say it's probably Nosferatu then Salubri then Malkavians

and then everyone else

far far above them

[open roost]

FUCK forgot the malks

it feels like... speaking as a newcomer ive seen a lot of toreador sires that are especially obsessive

[velvet sparrow]

I dunno, Nosferatu do have it bad, but do they really have it the worst?

[open roost]

Yeah

[candid shadow]

Probably yah

[open roost]

painful transformation that takes a month and kills a good few of em, leaving them permanently deformed

[velvet sparrow]

Like sure, they look ugly. But they've got Obfuscate to cover it up, and at least they have other Nosferatu looking out for them to a bigger degree than any other clan 'cept maybe pre-v5 Tremere do

[open roost]

oh right forgot the tremere blood bond shit that definitely goes above the toreas

[mighty zephyr]

Like

Being a nosferatu fucking sucks

it's just weirdly especially sucks

[candid shadow]

You gotta live in the sewers because just existing in human society is a masquerade breach

[mighty zephyr]

Not exactly in V5 but it still sucks

[candid shadow]

What’s it like in V5 for them?

[open roost]

its like... being seen isnt inherently a masquerade breach for most of them but isnt a good call

[mighty zephyr]

yeah

you're just considered a particularly vile and repulsive person

[velvet sparrow]

Honestly then being considered an automatic masquerade breach seems silly imo

[candid shadow]

Ah ok

[velvet sparrow]

Extremely noticable? Yes. Highly dependant on context? Absolutely.

[open roost]

if i saw a dude who looked like a nosferatu i'd probably just like, assume somethings up with them that wasn't my business and move on with my life

its a good change

[spice abyss]

Body modders are weird would be my default assumption.

Unless it's something like those Worm Nossies.

[velvet sparrow]

Anyways: Is being a Nosferatu the best? No. But just Existing in the world of darkness sucks and I can think of a lot of things worse than being a Nossie

Malkavians have it far worse imo

[open roost]

honestly yeah i'd concede to that

or

agree to that

[mighty zephyr]

Ehhh

I think it's at least equal

[spice abyss]

Poor Malks.

They both aren't going to be able to easily exist in non-vampire society.

[velvet sparrow]

Nosferatu go through horrible pain, and are ostracised and pretty much only able to connect with other Nosferatu but at least they still have control of their minds. What Malkavians have is horrifying

[open roost]

if for no other reason than the worst part of being a nosferatu being over in a month, i think seeing malks as having it worse is a fair assessment

ok so as far as i can tell the whole different colored dice system is exclusive to 5th edition so we dont have to bother with two colors for something like mage 20, right?

[velvet sparrow]

Nope!

[patent stirrup]

Tho from waht we have herd M20 is not the best edition of mage

[radiant marsh]

correct

And Malks can at least participate in human society

Being a nossie necessitates cutting yourself off almost completely

Also got art of my Malk and am stupidly happy with it, so inflicting it on everybody

[clear delta]

Maxiamalist?

[clear delta]

Shit, I forgot summoners. Yeah, it's pretty good

[clear delta]

Acro?

[clear delta]

Ah, like requiem?

[clear delta]

Specially if you count the psychic network influencing. Some elders learn to upload themselves to it, and take over bodies

[high current]

maximalist, 'more is more', in this context i think they mean having a bunch of mechanics specifically made for combat despite theoretically being a less combat-heavy game

[clear delta]

I see, thanks

[short quiver]

Hah! I like it

[heady kestrel]

Thinking about Huntsmen from changeling again

Its really fun that there is a built in “Better ending” whenever your fighting them

I wonder if they have names in their natural state

[clear delta]

Oh, hunter has a conspiracy of blessed healers. Finally, you can play trauma center in cofd

[versed zodiac]

Real quick: are there such things as, like, really big/bad spectres that could be deployed to haunt an entire hotel in the context of oWoD

I'm playing a scene tonight where the Sabbat have essentially dirty-bombed the Camarilla's Elysium with ghosts

and I'm wondering if I should portray it as a whole gaggle of angry ghosts, or one really big really pissed off spirit

[heady kestrel]

you could do a whole gaggle of pissed off ghosts, but if you want One Big One I am sure you could just say its a weird Geist

[high current]

they're doing owod so, not geists

there are malfeans, which are the big bad spectres that are mostly used as 'bbeg' material in wraith

divided into 2 main groups; Neverborn, which almost never leave the Labyrinth, and Onceborn, which are more frequently seen outside the Labyrinth and thus would probably be the ones to haunt a hotel

[versed zodiac]

tbh

this is for Vampire

so they don't need to know anything

it can just be a Big Angry Ghost and the justification is ultimately irrelevant

[high current]

there's also Nephwracks, which are 'ghosts' that have been around for so long they no longer resemble anything human

you're also running a vampire game so who cares what officially exists in the context of the rest of the wod, do your own thing

[versed zodiac]

could an Oblivion user press a Nephwrack into making things stinky in a bigass hotel

[velvet sparrow]

Yeah, this

[high current]

yes, as much as they could press any other ghost into doing something

only real difference is nephwracks are stronger so it might require a more difficult roll, but, that'd be offset by the promise of 'you can totally go nuts and fuck with these people'

[versed zodiac]

okay yeah they could've just used Oblivion to bind a giant rancid ghost to the Chateau Laurier

that would be

very mean.

[radiant marsh]

Does it need to be a Ghost?

You could definitely get that effect with a Spirit, but...Granted that'd probably be harder for Vampires to interact with or get rid of.

Problem also being that using the real nasty spirits would be the sort of thing the Sabbat would see as forbidden diabolism

...

I love how I put something forward and then instantly elaborate on why it'd be a dumb idea.

apologies.

[high current]

v5 vampires dont have any way to interact with spirits i dont think

(yet)

[radiant marsh]

Yeah, even in earlier you had what, the Ahrimanes?

And that was mostly it.

[high current]

ye, animus from the ahrimanes and kind of daimonion from the baali

[versed zodiac]

spirits

oh

nahh it's gonna be ghosts for sure

[high current]

which, in V5 i feel like daimonion would fall under Oblivion

since that's where demons are from in owod

[mighty zephyr]

This is literally just that one level from Bloodlines so uh Yes

[versed zodiac]

oh huh

I never played Bloodlines

luckily for me, neither have any of my players

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v7QSN5iwRY

[radiant marsh]

https://youtu.be/tyi3hthybgQ?t=374

[clear delta]

Oh, could take inspiration from fatal frame. Wonderful ghost horror

[open roost]

So what is a shovelhead exactly?

[spice abyss]

Mass recruited Sabbat vamp

[mighty zephyr]

A shovelhead is a sabbat thing where they run up behind someone, brain them in the back of the head with a shovel, embrace them in a mass grave

and then recruit them for a thing

Usually they then use them as fodder for an assault

[spice abyss]

If they survive, that's considered a Sabbat plus

[open roost]

Ok so like... are they cool with being turned like that? Why continue working for them after that

[mighty zephyr]

What else are you gonna do

[versed zodiac]

generally speaking, they're pressed into service

[high current]

put it this way, one night you're going about your life when suddenly you feel a bang on the back of your head, and then you wake up in a mass grave surrounded by a bunch of other people you've never met, you are absolutely ravenous, and someone points at a nearby building and says there's plenty to eat in there. you manage to survive the ensuing slaughter, and you're informed that you're now a vampire, and you have to keep eating people if you want to survive. oh also, there's this other group of vampires who will absolutely kill you if they find out you were part of this whole operation.
what the fuck else are you going to do?

you either join the sabbat, face the sun, or hope they were lying about the camarilla

[versed zodiac]

I mean, I guess there's the Anarchs

[radiant marsh]

There's also the Vaulderie

[open roost]

Ah

[radiant marsh]

Defecting is hard when the first act of joining a pack is a ritual that makes you have artificial undying love and loyalty to the rest of said pack, and possibly your superiors.

[high current]

tbf when shovelheads were actually a big thing the anarchs were considered part of the camarilla still

[radiant marsh]

But yes

The Camarilla: You must choose your Childer with great care, for our sacred traditions forbid Siring without the blessing of thy Elder. It is a joyous matter of great significance and import.

The Sabbat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwxTZaa3NgI

[high current]

they're distinct as of V5, but I think the Sabbat is also less of a thing now

[orchid void]

The Grudges of the Dead, the blasted shadows on the wall, a malice thick as soil mixed well with blood. A Specter, a Haunt, call it what you want, but it’s there now- a thing of Oblivion

[versed zodiac]

okay sweet

I just needed to know if I was stepping into dangerous ground

[open roost]

Ok, cool, a lot of things are falling into place for me

[versed zodiac]

"Can the ghost leave the hotel? Is that allowed in ghost law?"
-one of my players

[clear delta]

Really, wraiths are dragged into ghost society

They can interact with the ghost side of places, but poking the living side breaks ghost law

[open roost]

i have let my friends vote on which game we are playing. Mage the Ascension is winning

[velvet sparrow]

Wooo!

[versed zodiac]

Quotes from my VtM session all from one specific player:

"So when are we mentioning the staked guy with half a head in our house to the boss?"
"Never, if I have any say in it"

"Man, I hope they have blood milkshakes at the diner"

"If it were me, I simply would not be scared by the scary stuff that happens to horror protagonists. I'm built different."

"He's trying to save his girlfriend, have some compassion"
"She's a ghost! He's a ghost too! They're all ghosts, I don't trust it!"

"Why are we listening to ghosts?!"

"Stop asking the TV questions, it's not worth listening to."

"I'm standing with my back against the wall. Not cool-like, I'm pissing myself."

[candid shadow]

So I just did a thing in BG3, and now I’m wondering if it’s kinda in line with WOD vampires for a ritual to remove the negatives of vampirism while keeping the positives?

Like some regent of the Camarilla is trying to walk in the sun again and is performing esoteric rituals in order to do so

[versed zodiac]

That is a thing but usually temporarily and at extraordinary cost

[short quiver]

That's the explicit goal of one of the major factions in nWoD

[candid shadow]

Oh which ones?

[candid shadow]

Also how?

[versed zodiac]

Big complicated blood sorcery ritual iirc

[short quiver]

The Ordo Dracul, one of the five major political groups in Vampire: the Requiem
Named after their founder, Vlad III of Wallachia.

aka Dracula

[versed zodiac]

oh this was re: VtM

[candid shadow]

Oh shit Dracula actually accomplished something in NWOD

[orchid void]

Well

One of several Draculas

Requiem also has Count Fuckin Dracula

[candid shadow]

Huh

[orchid void]

And the Mehket(?) who rules a Hungarian fortress city might be the historical Drac

While the ordo claims foundation and philosophical lineage from a different Dracula

[candid shadow]

Ohhh

It’s just multiple people who shared the name throughout history

[orchid void]

And Count Motherfucking Dracula is a gangrel no one feels like arguing with when he says “I’m Count Fucking Dracula, cause my Sire was.”

[orchid void]

Remember! nWoD doesn’t deal in straight answers the way oWoD did

[candid shadow]

Ah

So it may not

Who knows

[orchid void]

The ST decides what parts of the book work best for any given chronicle

[versed zodiac]

I think my favorite vignette from the haunted hotel so far has been a room that just made people outside it seem like horrible monstrosities to people inside and vice versa

like, twisted their voices into howls and sinister whispers, turned knocking on the door into scratching and pounding, etc.

[orchid void]

oWoD Dracula was a Tzimisce elder? Maybe related to the clan founders? Idk I didn’t read Dark Ages

[versed zodiac]

no actual threat involved

scared the hell out of the players because I just separated them into two voice calls

and went back and forth translating their actions into scary shit for the other side

[short quiver]

Well, Count Fuckin Dracula isn't the original Dracula.
He is, possibly, Dracula's Grandchilde, by way of the Unholy (the Gangrel signature character)

Or... possibly Dracula made a Promethian.

[orchid void]

Isn’t the Unholy the childer of Baba Yaga?

[candid shadow]

Also quick question, can OWOD vampires feed on animal blood?

Or do they need human blood?

[versed zodiac]

Yes, but it's less satisfying and not all of them can, or can do it effectively

[short quiver]

I mean, also possible?
I think she has a multiple choice backstory

[candid shadow]

Ah ok

[orchid void]

yeah fair

[high current]

its mainly a thing for higher generations(more recent vamps, typically), or those who have basically specifically trained their body to deal with animal blood

[orchid void]

Those Requiem clan books FUCK intensely

[candid shadow]

Ok then yah the idea I has works

[high current]

(as in, higher gens can do it no problem, iirc lower gens need to have a merit that says they can do it, and either way it doesnt give as much blood as human blood does)

[candid shadow]

Of a common stop for the players being a butcher that pockets blood as a cheap way for lower ranking vamps to stay fed in the dry seasons

[short quiver]

Yeah.
I like the way they almost make the Clans seem like, well
So Masquerade supposedly has the Clans as based on the big differences between Cain's grandchilder, but the five Vampire Clans in Requiem wind up feeling more like five related but distinct kinds of undead monster.

[versed zodiac]

completely possible, absolutely a flashpoint for vampire conflict when someone gets hungry but already got their blood ration lmao

[spice abyss]

Oh yeah, the Dracula talk happened!

I love that there's three different Vamps who claim to be Dracula.

And nobody wants to correct any of them, because why take the chance?

[versed zodiac]

How badass do you have to pretend to be to go over the limit of randoms wanting to run up on you to show off how badass they are vs people deciding it’s not worth it just in case

[high current]

the way i always look at it is masquerade clans are stereotypes, requiem clans are archetypes
basically every masquerade vamp of a given clan is going to have the same hallmark traits, or else an exact opposite that is similarly a hallmark of a 'weird' member of the clan, like a ventrue who hates giving orders or a tzimisce plastic surgeon
requiem clans meanwhile are a lot broader; the vampire ruler, the vampire beast, the vampire monster, the vampire seducer, the vampire creep

[versed zodiac]

Masquerade clans are, like, broad classes of roles vampires can fill in a story

You got vampires that are dark wizards, vampires that are religiously evil, vampires that are nasty gremlin creatures living in the woods, etc

Dracula from Bram Stoker is like 3+ clans’ worth of tropes

[short quiver]

(V:tM Clans are mostly broad vampire archetypes & then they're like "what if the rest of the Clans were weird race stuff")

Also they should have been the Followers of Apep that would have made so much more sense

[patent talon]

Hunter the Vigil or Werewolf?

[open roost]

Just found out about abominations that shit is fucking evil

[orchid void]

Each of the Masquerade clans are branches on the bloodline of Caine, yeah? Interwoven with the grand Abrahamic Apocalypse that looms over oWoD. Requiem’s great for showing their clans as Mythohistories and Rumor rather than,,, religious dogma? Is that close to like, how Clan Histories work in Masquerade?

Anyway the Nosferatu in Requiem might be descended from the Brothers Worm, who dug so deep that they found the blind-maggot-man that was spawn of the cthonian gods.

And they hauled it from the lightless depths and beneath moonless sky, the Brothers drank it dry.

the requiem clan books fuck IMMENSELY

[versed zodiac]

Clan histories in Masquerade are like being part of a ethno-religious group, sorta

[orchid void]

yeah that’s a good way to look at it (charitably)

[versed zodiac]

like

the worst ethno-religion ever

but it's a way of belonging to a people that combines relationship of blood with shared culture and stories

[clear delta]

Yeah, they're creature that suffered convergent evolution

[short quiver]

Each Clan was founded by a Third Generation ancestor, the childe of one of Caine's childer, yeah.
It was always presented in a way that meant maybe this is just myth, and a couple of the Clans had alternate ideas for what happened, but the assumption in the gameline was always that it was very literally true

[candid shadow]

Do vamps that burn in the sun leave a body?

[mighty zephyr]

I think any final death results in them aging to their original age

[candid shadow]

Ah alright

[mighty zephyr]

Though idk

[candid shadow]

Does that mean an especially old vampire just becomes bones when they die?

[mighty zephyr]

that's never explicitly been made for sunlight

Yeah

[candid shadow]

Damn

[short quiver]

I don't think you'd even need to be especially old.
Unburied, usually the timeframe is something like weeks to skeletonization, maybe a few years.

[spice abyss]

Chances are good that a vamp that meets the sun is going to look like a burn victim.

[velvet sparrow]

Vampires, when they die, rapidly age to the state that their body would be if they had not been a vampire. Vampires that die from the sun, specifically, turn to ash

According to V20, at least

[open roost]

can someone explain why these dont have numbers?

like i thought rage dice just worked like... normal dice but getting a one and/or a two results in a brutal

[short quiver]

Because the mechanics don't differentiate between a 3-5 or a 6-9, so game-specific dice don't need to either.

[open roost]

i mean shouldnt i know whether or not i got a 3-5 vs a 6-9? why leave parts blank?

[short quiver]

It does differentiate between a 3-5 vs a 6-9, it just doesn't make a difference between a 3 vs 4 because they're the same result in the system.

[open roost]

im just gonna say "i dont get it" and move on since i dont own these dice and my pile of d10s i ordered are on the way anyways

[velvet sparrow]

3-5 all fall in the "nothing" category

[open roost]

i mean yeah i get that

target number is 6

[velvet sparrow]

A 3 means the same thing as a 4 means the same as a 5, so for game specific dice they just leave them blank, because nothing happens if you roll them

[open roost]

OHHHHHH ONLY THOSE ARE BLANK

ok i get it my bad

anyways on the subject of dice will i ever truly need more than 20 d10s? i ordered one set of red and one set of black and i dont think i'm ever gonna convince my family to play werewolf with me

[short quiver]

I mean probably not.

...unless you play Exalted, maybe

[open roost]

dunno what that is so i think im good

[patent stirrup]

WoD is the same way about d10's as SR is about d6's

[open roost]

sr?

is that shadowrun?

[patent stirrup]

Yeah

[open roost]

dont know much about that one i'll admit

[short quiver]

Same sort of mechanic, stat + skill dice looking for a target number.

[short quiver]

Also Exalted is White Wolf's mythic fantasy setting.
PCs are (generally) members of the Exalted, humans empowered by the gods of the setting to be heroes, in the classical sense; might lead a land to a golden age or lead them to ruin with their personal issues.
Originally conceived as the prehistory of the WoD but that was scrapped fairly early on

It's pretty great, but also it was infamous for jokes about the "d10 bucket" gaming peripheral

[versed zodiac]

you don't need a million dice, getting past 12 in a pool is really hard

[short quiver]

yeah it's less true since 2nd

[radiant marsh]

I really want to give Exalted another try

The one time I actually played it, the ST almost turned me off RPGs entirely for a while

In the "I'm going to kill your character Session 1 to 'teach you a lesson' about only having Essence 2 at character creation" sort of way

[valid merlin]

huh?

what do you mean "only" Essence 2 at char creation?

[radiant marsh]

Don't you know? You need to spend all your bonus XP on Essence for combat min-maxing

Or something

Or background dots, or whatever

It was really dumb.

[high current]

im guessing that was 2e, where you could start out with higher essence during character creation

and it was really common to sacrifice some bonus points to get your essence score up to 3(you started at 2 in 2e; 1 was reserved for mortals/ghosts/god-blooded/etc) because raising it with XP is expensive and there's a lot of good charms that aren't available until essence 3

(3e starts you at essence 1, and your essence score goes up automatically as you hit certain thresholds of xp spent, instead of being something you have to pay to increase)

[velvet sparrow]

Okay that's a cool way to do the power stat

[high current]

yeah if you're familiar with nwod/cofd/V5, Essence is essentially Blood Potency/Primal Urge/Gnosis/etc

[radiant marsh]

It was 2e

[open roost]

yeah i brought up that mage 20th is 700 pages none of us want to learn and we have decided to play werewolf

now i just gotta pick a setting

[orchid void]

I’ve been thinking about Florida for WoD stuff

[midnight grotto]

I think my friend ran a Mage game in Tallahassee

[open roost]

florida fucking intrigues me actually

[orchid void]

The Everglades babyyy

[open roost]

yeah that would actually be great for werewolves

[midnight grotto]

Miami's Freehold is wild because Summer is just permanently in control

[candid shadow]

What do y’all think would be a good intro game for VTM?

For a new storyteller and players

[velvet sparrow]

Hm

I've heard good things about Night Road

[candid shadow]

Oh I more meant a concept

I don’t really want to run a prewritten module

[velvet sparrow]

Oh wait ignore me

I thought you meant like, video game

[candid shadow]

Nah the TTRPG

[open roost]

hmmm

i once had the idea of like, the future coterie are all (individually) captured by hunters and thats what brings them together. either they bust out or they're busted out by whatever faction you want

idk how st friendly that is but i think its a simple enough set up. suppose from there it just depends on how cool everyone else is with things like kidnapping and, potentially, torture

[candid shadow]

I could ask them if they’re cool with an opening like that

[clear delta]

Things went horribly wrong

But grandpa thunder beating the shit outta a guy sent by the true fae with an iron hammer is awesome.

Also the autumn queen was doing something for a power play

[high current]

Crimson Gutter is a book full of game starter scenarios

Don't think it's full on adventures, just, a seed to start a game with

[high hornet]

Had a session today

we lived, things didn't go well

had my arm bitten off right at the start

other buddy lost their hand

[open roost]

which game is this?

[high hornet]

Vampire The Masquerade

[open roost]

ahhhh you'll be fiiiiine

[high hornet]

We got my arm back and I managed to reattach it but the amputated hand disappeared into the void

we might have released something terrible

[spice abyss]

Naaaaah, I'm sure it'll be fine.

[high hornet]

The followers of set were trying to unlock a being that was either connected to or held beside the abyss and it accidentally got out immediately upon us going near the place

[open roost]

are werewolves immune to radiation?

[spice abyss]

No*

[open roost]

sorry to interrupt but im taking setting suggestions and someone said chernobyl

[high hornet]

it was going to have left but then we started licking blood-engorged enchanted bones and it figured out where we were and came over to our direction and we had to run away because it was kinda bad to be around and I got bitten by abyss snakes or something

Our current setting is New Orleans

[spice abyss]

Licking blood engorged enchanted bones

I think I see your problem. 😛

[high hornet]

It was MY blood!

They took it!

I have some blood powers that help if I taste it so I licked it and saw things and heard things so I gave it to my buddy to try and he started having a vision and being corrupted by the bone and that's why he took his own hand off

[short quiver]

So 2E was, combat-wise, a lot of really cool ideas that ran into a problem when someone really dug into the combat engine and determined that it was, basically, a solvable problem.

And once it was solved, you just spammed the same Paranoia Combo and whoever runs out of Essence first loses.

3rd is much better about it

[high current]

nevermind, after looking into it, it's kind of a series of short adventures that are designed to be more flexible i guess

[open roost]

please tell me the chronicle was called "night comes to tallahassee"

[midnight grotto]

See my spouse is a 2E Respecter and their general stance on that is

"If you break the system... you broke it, congratulations. Why's that my problem."

but also there's an actual Exalted forum here so I won't dig in

[radiant marsh]

In pre-5e WtA at least, Chernobyl is basically the mother of all Hellholes

[candid shadow]

So one of my players wants to play someone who escaped their sire and is currently clanless

Being clanless is pretty dangerous right?

[short quiver]

Potentially?
Not being under their sire's influence means they presumably don't have anyone protecting them from vampire politics.
Although I don't know that it would be "currently" Clanless. All VtR vampires have a Clan, while VtM Caitiff (afaik) are stuck that way

[velvet sparrow]

Caitiff is a weird definition in Masquerade. It is used interchangeably between "vampires who don't have a clan", "vampires who are politically convienent to call clanless", "vampires of an unknown clan", and more

[short quiver]

Yeah fair, but I'm thinking about if you have it on your sheet

[candid shadow]

So do humans just, not remember when they’re being fed on?

Because you can just spare anyone while feeding in VTMB and they don’t know they were being fed on

[high current]

most clans have a thing where the Kiss/bite induces euphoria in the victim

and once it's over they kinda, snap back to reality and forget about it, or remember it as a quickie

(the Hecata are the exception, their bite is explicitly painful as hell)

[candid shadow]

Ahhh ok

[candid shadow]

Ok so they gotta do something else if they wanna feed and not murder the victim

[high current]

ye, the Hecata/Giovanni/Cappodocians are historically styled like a mafia family so its not uncommon for them to take blood as payment for protection rackets and stuff like that

(there's also some bloodlines within the clan that, eg, feed on raw flesh instead of blood)

[candid shadow]

Ah ok

Also, while I understand animal blood tastes worse then humans, is there still tiers to animals?

Like a cow or pig tasting better then a rat?

[open roost]

ohhhhh thats a good question actually

[high current]

i think they all taste about the same, but the amount of blood you get depends on the animal in question

basically, more health = more blood, so therefore bigger/tougher animals give more

[candid shadow]

Ah ok

[high current]

(rats are 1 point, cats are 2 i think, large dogs can be 3 i think? not sure if V5 has an explicit amount of blood per animal or anything)

[candid shadow]

Still not a lot though

[velvet sparrow]

Dunno what it is in V5, but in V20 rats are 1/4 blood points

[high hornet]

do the lasombra have anything about their bite?

Is it forgotten or something? That seems their style

[high current]

nah, their bane is just that they have problems using technology, and their reflections/other captured image(cameras, microphones, etc) tend to be distorted

[open roost]

ok i feel like a dumbass for asking, considering just how deep into this franchise ive gotten over the course of the past year, can someone please just give me a simple list of what the cammies/anarchs believe. i know the camarilla believe in serving the ancients and that the anarchs believe in not that but outside of that they just feel vaguely anarchist and vaguely capitalist.

[velvet sparrow]

The Anarchs schitck is "Fuck serving the elder vampires. Why should we be their slaves?"

[versed zodiac]

Cammies have a number of Traditions but it comes down to them denying the Antediluvians exist and having a strict, rigorously hierarchical society of vampires

[open roost]

ok, ok, im getting it more and more

hierarchical how

[versed zodiac]

By age and generation, largely

[open roost]

is it like the tremere blood pyramid or is it based on generat- ahhhh ok

[versed zodiac]

With some exceptions in that the highest roles in Camarilla society aren't necessarily filled by the oldest vampires due to how exceptionally dangerous it is to occupy them

due to the Camarilla social order being the ultimate, final high school hot-or-not popularity contest

[radiant marsh]

It's not always that way, but it tends to be.

Just because the Vampire who was embraced in the 1100s has lasted that long for a reason

So they tend to be hyper-competent.

[open roost]

how is this hierarchy enforced then? what purpose does it serve the camarilla?

[versed zodiac]

Notably the Prince of a domain isn't going to be an omega-oldhead, it'll be an up and coming mid-high ranking vampire, with the truly untouchable acting as the Primogen Council

[radiant marsh]

It serves them because it keeps the people on top comfortable, and keeps the Masquerade in place.

[versed zodiac]

It's enforced through vampire police.

[open roost]

and thaaaaaats like, the sheriff from bloodlines?

[radiant marsh]

Yes

Though typically the Sheriff also has people (Hounds) working under him

[versed zodiac]

The Camarilla enforce the Traditions through coteries that work directly for their organization, the Vehme, who are led by the Sheriff (or Praetorian if the local Prince is particularly obnoxious about terminology)

well, it's a little more complicated

[radiant marsh]

Sabbat loyalty, meanwhile, is more a combination of blood rites and religious zealotry

[versed zodiac]

there's Hounds, who work directly under the Sheriff/Praetorian, and then there's the Vehme who specifically act as Masquerade enforcement, and then you have the Archons whose job it is to represent the Camarilla's inner circle of the Camarilla, the Justicars

[open roost]

yeah no the sabbat make sense, they're vampire supremacists

[versed zodiac]

and then there's Alastors, who are the Camarilla's assassins who take out the Red List occupants

[radiant marsh]

No, I mean the first thing you do when you become True Sabbat is you undergo a rite that gives a mutual blood bond to you and everybody else in your pack

[open roost]

yeah, the vinculum

[radiant marsh]

So betraying them is literally unthinkable

[versed zodiac]

so there's a whole gaggle of Cammie licks out for the vitae of any masquerade-breaking, tradition-flouting, chaos-causing vampires who show their faces in a Camarilla domain

[open roost]

ironically the fact that they're so unbelievably fucked makes them way easier to wrap my head around

[velvet sparrow]

Camarilla are more restrained, less religious death cult vampire supremacists, who want to consolidate all the power into their hands and have absolute authority over everyone younger than them.

[open roost]

oh they're just cops

[versed zodiac]

The Camarilla have many different layers of cops, yeah

[open roost]

ohhhhhhh my god i get it now. thanks y'all

[versed zodiac]

it's not all they do, there's a lot of other stuff happening in a Camarilla domain

but there's also like

a good amount of policing happening

[radiant marsh]

The Camarilla DO want to have absolute authority over everyone under them.

They're just more subtle about it.

[velvet sparrow]

The Camarilla are absolutely big cops pushing down the little guy so that the rich can get richer

[radiant marsh]

Which is ironic because the Sabbat started as a revolt against that sort of behavior.

[versed zodiac]

you should also know that the Anarchs kinda grit their fangs and play nice with the Camarilla to a degree

[radiant marsh]

And the upper Sabbat echelons are basically The Camarilla, except with more Pseudo-Catholic overtones.

[versed zodiac]

like they hate the hierarchy thing but it's kinda impossible to not do the Masquerade

[open roost]

like i guess i just wanted to understand the central conflict between the two main factions since i dont think i really got a clear picture of what the cammies were doing throughout my playthrough of bloodlines/the first season of LA by night

yeah no i picked that much up from la by night

[versed zodiac]

what the fuck is LA by night

[radiant marsh]

It's a high-budget LP series

[versed zodiac]

ah, neat

[radiant marsh]

Like Critical Role

[versed zodiac]

yeah I gathered

I've been running a vehme chronicle for my players and watching them realize in real time that the Camarilla giving them a taste of authority doesn't mean they aren't expendable goons for their bosses was delightful last session

they really went "oh... OH..." when they got picked for the suicide mission with a "sorry guys short end of the stick" from their boss

[open roost]

i suppose its hard to really learn whats going on if all ive seen has happened in anarch territory, huh

[radiant marsh]

The Malk I'm playing that I posted the art of. She's technically in the Vehme

But her city calls it the 'Breach Bureau'

[versed zodiac]

haha sick

[open roost]

good name

[versed zodiac]

the Prince I'm running the chronicle with is an absolute goof for tradition and sounding Gothic so he uses all the old stupid names for stuff and throws a fit if people don't use them too

[radiant marsh]

Heh

[versed zodiac]

He's a Malkavian whose gimmick is that the drama whoring isn't so much an intentional affect as much as it is him riding out his insanity in a mostly socially acceptable way

[radiant marsh]

The NPC running it is basically this grizzled old Gangrel with an eyepatch, who is 100% done with these assholes and their fancy titles

[versed zodiac]

so being Prince fits him super good

He's not crazy, he just happens to compulsively need to be the center of attention at all places and times

[radiant marsh]

But yeah. Lillian (the Malk) is hyper-specialized towards investigation and problem solving. Zero actual combat skills. It's V20 game and we're using custom Malkavian derangements.

Hers is that she sees patterns absolutely everywhere, whether they actually exist or not.

[versed zodiac]

oh that's fun

[open roost]

So if i'm reading this shit right this would be real in the umbra

[versed zodiac]

facts

[orchid void]

correct

[clear delta]

What's this?

[open roost]

Plastic beach. Its a Gorillaz album

The idea is that the island itself is made entirely of trash

[versed zodiac]

It's a metaphorical place

[clear delta]

I'm reminded of a weird spirit place in nwod/cofd. A secret area in the shadow of a factory, with rivers of molten metal

Think it was fanmade

Had a court of industrial spirits

[sudden shoal]

Plastic Beach could theoretically also be owod underworld

the flotsam and jetsam of memory coagulating into a mish-mash location

[open roost]

i know this is messy but here is my pride month contribution

[short quiver]

hah

[open roost]

ayyyyy my first set of just d10s are here

my other set will be here by the 23rd, sadly

[open roost]

i just rolled all ten of them and got no successes

[open roost]

ok so, wta5, looking through the tribe gifts. when it says like, "as x auspice" in the list, does that mean you just get that ability free if you're that auspice, or that you have to take it, or that its just available for everyone in the tribe

[high current]

It's just saying 'the gift that x auspice has is available to this tribe'

so Black Furies have "HALT THE COWARD'S FLIGHT (As Ahroun)"
Ahroun has a gift of the same name, Black Furies can take it without being an Ahroun

[open roost]

ohhhhh badass thank you

its so funny to me that werewolves have a bard auspice

[open roost]

i really like the new (im pretty sure its new?) approach to player powers were they had to come up with a million new abilities so you end up with like, being able to move your heart around to avoid staking, or crinos form werewolves being able to squeeze into hand sized holes

its really fucking funny and cool

[high current]

moving your heart around has always been a thing, mainly for the ministry/setites

as far as crinos fitting into hand-sized holes i dont see anything about that under the info for Crinos specifically, so im assuming you're referring to a Gift

fwiw, i dont think Werewolves really have more Gifts than previous editions. Vampires do, though, cause in previous editions of Masquerade each dot was a single specific power(or just a straight +1 to the relavent attribute in the case of Fortitude/Potence/Celerity), but a lot of previous disciplines have been merged together and the various powers grouped together at different dot levels

(eg, Banu Haqim used to have Quietus, which has now been merged into Obfuscate/Blood Sorcery. Ministry's shapeshifting antics used to be a specific discipline called Serpentis, but now it's just uncommon Protean powers. same for Tzimisce and Vicissitude)

[open roost]

ohhhhhhhh ok

i was under the (apparently wrong) impression that the disciplines in old games were essentially just new dice pools you could apply when appropriate. maybe thats because i played a brujah in bloodlines

[high current]

That's essentially how Celerity and Potence worked. Just straight up added their eating to dex and str, respectively

Until you hit 6 dots, and then things got weird

[mighty zephyr]

Every discipline having multiple powers per dot that you can pick and choose to create your own tree is new tho I believe

[high current]

ye

[candid shadow]

So without potence how much stronger is a vamp compared to a regular human?

[mighty zephyr]

2 more

[candid shadow]

Ok

Thanks

[mighty zephyr]

Blood Surge adds +2 dice to any physical dice pool

so that much

this goes up with higher BP but that rarely comes up in V5

[candid shadow]

Why not?

[mighty zephyr]

Because the assumption of V5 is you're playing shitty little assholes and not Elders who by baseline can wrestle a werewolf to the ground

[candid shadow]

Ah

Can you eventually get to the wrestling a werewolf level though?

[mighty zephyr]

Nope

only through extensive diablerie

[candid shadow]

Zamn

[high hornet]

I do not desire to wrestle a werewolf even as a relatively low generation

[candid shadow]

That’s fair yah

They are kinda apex predators

[high hornet]

Maybe for relationship purposes

Don't @ me Omar has a nature of Masochist

[candid shadow]

@ llabddo

[high hornet]

yes?

[candid shadow]

Idk I really didn’t think of anything past this

[high hornet]

So stupid question but why do werewolves hate vampires so much anyway?

[mighty zephyr]

They don't anymore

It used to be that vampires were "of the Wyrm" and that meant Werewolves would invaribly attack them on sight

Now it's just Werewolves are assholes and vampires are assholes and neither really go into things with an open mind so they usually try to kill each other when they interact

[heady kestrel]

Vampires being a Wyrm thing would make sense

[mighty zephyr]

Not really

[candid shadow]

I mean id imagine vampires still do shit werewolves hate though

[mighty zephyr]

Now Vampires are Weaver aligned

[candid shadow]

Just because they do shit humans do they hate

[mighty zephyr]

which makes far more sense to me imo

[spice abyss]

That's arguably worse than being Wyrm. 😛

[mighty zephyr]

Agreed

[spice abyss]

Weaver's the one who fucked everything up.

[candid shadow]

Humans are wyrm aligned right?

[spice abyss]

Humans are, as ever in WoD, Weird.

[high hornet]

I don't really know what this means but good to know Omar can be stupid and try to befriend a werewolf

[mighty zephyr]

The capitalist era is empowering the Wyrm

[candid shadow]

Ahhh right yah

There’s that oil company that’s using it for profit

[mighty zephyr]

But humans in general can be anything, but are more closely aligned with Weaver and Wyrm than Gaia and Wyld

[candid shadow]

I remember now

[mighty zephyr]

Pentex isn't an oil company

It's an Everything Company

[candid shadow]

Oh

[candid shadow]

I believe in them

You can get that cool werewolf friend

[high hornet]

I have to get through my potential meeting with the fae courts first

[candid shadow]

That’s way more dangerous then any werewolf

[high hornet]

yes

for a good... reason? Maybe?
Uhhh
any tips?

[candid shadow]

Good reason for what?

[high hornet]

we helped free a bunch of fae who were enslaved by the tremere and took over their base and now the courts want a meeting

[candid shadow]

Oh huh

I mean, you’re starting on a better foot then most

[high hornet]

yeah but could still go very... wrongly

[candid shadow]

Always a possibility with the fae yah

[high hornet]

Do fae like treats? Do you think I should cook something for them?

[candid shadow]

Maybe?

[high hornet]

Omar is a very good chef

[radiant marsh]

Pentex started as Standard Oil

But now it's a holding company

It basically exists just to have a bunch of owned companies under its umbrella

It has its fingers in pretty much everything.

Because Corporate Consolidation as Means for Global Apocalypse

again, Pre-5 but

Endron is Oil
Magadon is Pharma
nTellos is Phones and Communications tech
O'Tolleys is EVIL BURGER
King Distilleries is EVIL BEER
etc.

[patent talon]

Pack running a food truck to combat O'Tolleys franchises that are turning up in their neighbourhood

[high hornet]

the main trick is to use an induction hob cause fire sucks

[hidden rock]

For Pentex, I like to send back to the Orochi group from The Secret World. I find they are a pretty good reference frame.

[radiant marsh]

Could be. Pentex, honestly, strikes me as a bit less overt. Sure things like FIRST teams exist, but they normally act through a web of subsidiaries, and they try to keep the parent corporation out of the spotlight.

There's also the rub that the overwhelming majority of Pentex employees don't actually know anything about the Wyrm or Garou or that they're essentially working for a corporate death cult.

After all, the effects of predatory Capitalism would be doing the Wyrm's work by themselves. It's just when Pentex is involved the damage becomes the point, rather than just an unconsidered side-effect of making money.

And you don't need absolutely everybody down to the night janitor to be aware of that to make it happen.

[open roost]

black dice came in

[open roost]

this games easy as fuck

[candid shadow]

Are vamps in the Camarilla expected to not interact with anyone from their human life once they’re turned?

[mighty zephyr]

Nah that's not a requirement

[versed zodiac]

in fact they're expected to maintain a facade of a human life, just not to keep a human family

[short quiver]

A lot of them decide not to stay connected, because it can open up a whole lot of problems.

The nocturnal/ dietary thing brings up awkward questions, even before the "eternal youth" thing starts to kick in.
And a connection to your family is something other vampires might use to fuck with you.

[versed zodiac]

The Camarilla directly tell you not to have a family

[clear delta]

Vtmb has someone from your old life trying to contact you, and you need to handle it to avoid losing a masquerade point (and likely her death, and potentially the death of other loved ones?)

Since the masquerade breach will likely be handled

[open roost]

Was talking about werewolf with a player and she said "this is like warrior cats for adults"

[versed zodiac]

fax, no printer

[supple quail]

oo which one?

[radiant marsh]

'The Hildebrand Recording' from Grimoire of Grimoires

[radiant marsh]

Especially due to the game setting implications. Like, content, effects on people and the like are horror enough, but the real wham is more subtle.

First off the basic premise is it's an audio recording of some poor bastard trying an EVP thing and getting an Abyssal entity instead. Thing is, Hildebrand was a sleeper using off-the-shelf equipment in a location that had no history of anything relating to the Abyss or Magic in general. It should have been impossible for him to make contact, but that's what he did.

Second, it breaks most of the rules of Grimoires, and is explicitly called out as being impossible to create using the normal rules. But yet it still functions as a Grimoire.

Third, it's only the original recording. Attempts to copy it or transfer it to different media just pick up Hildebrand's voice (and later screaming). They DON'T pick up whatever it is he's talking to. That's only on the original.

Which has lead to the theory that the recording itself is an Abyssal entity, or at the very least a window for it to look into the world.

[clear delta]

Anyone homebrewed anathema to be inherent to beasts rather than imposed?

[mighty zephyr]

I have not

Though I could see it working

I would probably rather have Heroes be able to do it regardless of a beasts satiety imo

[clear delta]

Could do a thing where a beast has one inherent anathema, and others can be added

The beast's anathema could change if their legend/demeanor changes?

[mighty zephyr]

I actually think thematically it's weaker even if it makes more mechanical sense

Cuz like the idea is that the Hero shapes you into the antagonist of their story

Even if you aren't

The giving of an anathema is thus a violating act shaping you into THEIR monster

[clear delta]

Even so, even protagonists have weaknesses

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah

Not disagreeing

[candid shadow]

Is VTM 5e hard to learn?

[versed zodiac]

No

[candid shadow]

rad

[versed zodiac]

Most of the complexity is on the character sheet

[mighty zephyr]

looking at the old patrons for the tribes in W20 and man

there was a ton of overlap

Rat and Cockroach
Unicorn and Pegasus
Lion and Griffon

[clear delta]

Hm. Inspiration. Maybe hubristic mages, or desperate mortals.

Theories on Returning From the Underworld records sixteen different outrageous ways to "resurrect" short-life species after their lifespans have expired. For example, the Hive-Soul Technique sacrifices the body of the deceased to the immortal soul snatch bees, letting them parasitize the body and turn it into a hive, then using the species' hivemind consciousness to achieve rebirth. Alternatively, the Blood Hatching Curse transplants the scales and flesh of the half-human half-snake Cobrakinds into the person to deliberately infect them with the blood fever of the hatching snakes, thus transforming them into long-life species.

[patent talon]

Can you still be a mage if you've been eaten by bees? or become a half-snake? Dying eventually is a problem for all Mages, right?

[clear delta]

Dunno. Trying to become another template is generally impossible for mages, and template overlap is generally forbidden

In the case of bees, I'd say the soul already departed

[patent talon]

Yeah, "do you want to keep living or die a mage?"

[mighty zephyr]

Except Liches

[clear delta]

You just gotta spend your legacy choice to live forever

[clear delta]

Non-legacy immortality must be a holy grail. Freely pick your specialization, while living forever

[mighty zephyr]

It's really easy actually

Just cast a permanent spell

[orchid void]

Invest In Lichedom Immediately

joke canceled due to formatting issues

[clear delta]

Dispellation time

Or rip the runes

[mighty zephyr]

We have the pack of werewolves for the game!

Galestalker Theurge, Lupus-born investigator of the strange. (Me)
Glasswalker Galliard, biker and drug dealer
Hart Warden Philodox, Mother of 3 Detective
Tribeless Ragabash, Social Worker who is an enemy of an NGO.

[radiant marsh]

I guess Tribeless/Ronin are a bigger thing given where W5 went with the setting?

...Of course I have WtF on the brain and immediately went to 'Not a Ghost Wolf?' before I remembered.

[mighty zephyr]

Ronin aren't a thing either in W5

[radiant marsh]

Makes sense they'd change the name. 😛

[mighty zephyr]

Tribeless are probably much rarer because Tribal membership is a direct tie to your spiritual patron vs any other factor

Other Garou don't decide if you're worthy, it's JUST the Patron.

[radiant marsh]

Even as somebody who wants to reflexively defend the older versions that was very much a "...Seriously?" sort of term.

Nods

So them being Tribeless is actually a bigger deal

[mighty zephyr]

Tribeless werewolves are seemingly called "cubs" or just not considered Garou in general.

depending

[radiant marsh]

On if they're deliberately rejecting it/got kicked out, or if they just haven't completed a Rite of Passage yet?

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah

[radiant marsh]

Which is the character in question?

[mighty zephyr]

They're VERY fresh turned

So no tribe yet

I think she'll end up a Black Fury personally but we'll see

[clear delta]

Thought indefinite spell immortality was too unreliable for anyone to seriously use

[candid shadow]

Is there a big American city without much canon lore?

[clear delta]

Springfield

[candid shadow]

oh fuck

[candid shadow]

Also how is New York in vampire?

[mighty zephyr]

There's an entire trilogy of games about it

so probably bad

[candid shadow]

Oh no

[candid shadow]

Ok so another player wants to play either a gangrel or Hecata

[short quiver]

World of Darkness games have always been at the level of abstraction where the weapon options are "small pistol" and "big pistol," yet from the first edition VtM until at least nWoD it had separate entries for "sword" and "katana."
There was just a certain amount of background nerd-cool 90s weeb in the air.

[clear delta]

Katanas were good weapons in vtmb

So you'd have powerful vampires gunning for you with actual fucking katanas

[candid shadow]

Aren’t they strong in tabletop too?

[short quiver]

This is accurate to the game.
The other week I got to see a special showing of The Crow (1992) (🖤 ) and there's a scene where undead Brandon Lee is in a gunfight with Detroit crime lords and he still wound up killing people with a katana.

[short quiver]

They are, yeah. Swords but better.

[candid shadow]

Damn

[clear delta]

If (hunter the parenting episode 3) ||The family had some mall katana, and Pyotr had found it. Tpk would've ensued. ||

[candid shadow]

Then again we wouldn’t have his iconic shovel throw attack

[short quiver]

So I guess my point is just that the answer to "why samurai words in W:tA" is basically just "because 90s"

[valid merlin]

the classic katana and trenchcoat

(the trenchcoat is to conceal the katana)

[short quiver]

(This is also why there were so many Highlander houserules by WoD players)

[clear delta]

In one of DaveB's game, a player realized how gonzo the situation looked. Everyone in their underwear in the rain, ready to fight a big spirit. The guy who could fly and throw lightning was wearing a trenchcoat over his underwear.
So this player I mentioned at the start, had his shapeshifting tool transform into a katana.

[valid merlin]

lmao

[clear delta]

The GM had the action hero mage npc help them.
The spirit was finished off by having the npc drive a car through a portal

Hit it and explode, with him bailing out at the last moment

[candid shadow]

I feel like more mages should just run over their problems

[short quiver]

godspeed

[clear delta]

Another DaveB game had an ochema (avatar) of an exarch get run over

[candid shadow]

Also, for the vampire game I’m thinking of running, do y’all feel like a werewolf showing up in Central Park would be a good encounter for a sudden reason for the lower vampires in the city to start acting scared?

[spice abyss]

If it works for Hunters

[short quiver]

Hey did anyone else see John Carpenter's Vampires movie?

[candid shadow]

A good rule for hunters is any supernatural being can be beaten by just hitting it really hard with a big heavy thing

[short quiver]

It's not a great movie but it does have roughneck vampire hunters who hunt by breaking into vampire hangouts at noon and shooting them with harpoons connected to winch cables outside.

[mighty zephyr]

Also funniest thing about our werewolf pack

I am the Theurge

I am also our main combatant

[candid shadow]

Battle priest

Battle priest

[candid shadow]

I think I’m gonna make it a running bit in my game that every Tzimisce the party runs into fucking hates Dracula

They think he’s a poser from a backwater who’s only well known because he basically got a guy to write fanfic of him

[orchid void]

Just pick one and make your own lore uppp

That was supposed to be a reply to @candid shadow

[candid shadow]

Pick one what?

[orchid void]

City!

[candid shadow]

Ah

[orchid void]

Canon is fake until you need it

[candid shadow]

I mean yah

I choose New York City and I kinda wanted to steal some stuff from canon though

Like their Nosferatu Prince

[orchid void]

oh root through the pile absolutely

[candid shadow]

I definitely should just fuck around more though

It’s not like anyone else in this group cares about the state of New York in WOD anyway

[mighty zephyr]

Listen look I made this for WtA

[candid shadow]

Other then it being a bit of a battleground between the sects we don’t know much else

[mighty zephyr]

but this works for anything

[candid shadow]

that’s a requirement for running any white wolf game

Insane

The fact that the ravnos existed like that is

[short quiver]

They tried to make it better in Revised

But also there was a reason that Ravnos was picked as the Ante that got nuked

[candid shadow]

Yah but like

God old Ravnos

[short quiver]

yeah

[velvet sparrow]

I have a Mage the Awakening (2e) question, is a spells Potency/Primary Factor effected by successes rolled?

Additionally, can you adjust a factor other than the spells Primary Factor? Cause it looks like you can only ever increase the spell's Primary, which seems kind of... awful

Or, hang on

Do you adjust a spells Primary Factor for free?

[mighty zephyr]

No, a spell's factors are picked before rolling

[velvet sparrow]

What do you mean?

Or, okay, yeah successes don't apply.

How does figuring out factors work?

[mighty zephyr]

You pick them while building the spell

[velvet sparrow]

Building the spell?

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah

Every time you cast a spell you build it from scratch, usually

This'll mean picking scale, number of targets, potency, etc

You use Reach to make a spell More

[velvet sparrow]

What if you're casting a Rote?

Or, I'm even more confused now

Is building different from casting, or are we going into freeform spells now?

[mighty zephyr]

To cast a spell you build it

"I want to do this, at this scale, to affect this many people"

And those are a spell's primary factors

[velvet sparrow]

Can a spell have multiple primary factors?

[mighty zephyr]

Usually no

[velvet sparrow]

Okay, so, for example

The Fate 3 spell Grave Misfortune can never last for more than 1 turn?

Because, it says you can only increase a spell's Primary Factor?

Or, I don't know it's very confusing I've been trying to figure it out ever since I read the spellcasting rules

[mighty zephyr]

So

you use Reach to increase spell factors

but the PRIMARY spell factor is, automatically, Arcanum -1

[velvet sparrow]

Okay, so you can take the dice penalties to increase other factors as you want when casting, but the primary factor can freely be increased to your Arcanum rating?

[mighty zephyr]

Yes

[velvet sparrow]

Okay, thank you so much

[candid shadow]

So can Nosferatu be in public with their powers to conceal themselves?

[mighty zephyr]

In V5 Nosferatu can just be in public

they'll usually be considered a horribly disfigured person but they won't be a masquerade breach

[candid shadow]

Oh

[timber talon]

Listen it’s the 21st century

There’s lot of people more freakish than vampires roaming the streets in broad daylight

[candid shadow]

That’s fair yah

[orchid void]

You get 1 free reach onnn path arcanum? The book has it laid out in a nice appendix I always ref

Print that out and bam! Spells are easy

[mighty zephyr]

Also

since this is applicable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQnVXMQYyA0

I am jamming to Werewolf Music lately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUl84JBA8zc

the entire album is good obviously for vibes

I need to make a just a complete masterlist of werewolf music at some point

[open roost]

Oh hell yeah real tuesday weld

Ok so like, does anyone have any really good visual resources for spirits? I feel like as it stands i only really see them as animals or just like... abstract shapes

[clear delta]

Hmm, maybe the comic Paranatural?

[candid shadow]

Hmm, what if I made Slayer Guilty Gear a character in my vampire game?

What clan do y’all think would work for him?

[open roost]

I think... either ventrue or toreador

[candid shadow]

Admittedly I was kinda thinking Brujah just for the strength and speed

[velvet sparrow]

Wait I never read that anywhere?

[high current]

i dont think its path arcanum specifically, you get 1 free reach just for having the necessary dots to cast whatever spell you're trying to cast

[velvet sparrow]

Right, yes, I remember that now

One free reach for having enough, and an extra one per dot over

[mighty zephyr]

They're usually abstractions but genuinely a good way for me to visualizs them is to imagine like

AI art

That muddy badness translates really well into the uncanny vibe spirits should have

[open roost]

thats probably better

also what does the transformation... look like. and what happens to your clothes

[mighty zephyr]

Depends

First of all what are we talking about, WtA or WtF

[abstract current]

WoD was my first game I ever ran, forgot it till I found this minisub :D Nostalgia hitting hard

[open roost]

apocalypse

5th edition but i'm willing to take notes from older editions

[mighty zephyr]

Easy question for one is your clothes don't shift with you if you unless you have the Rite of Dedication

So you always end up naked after anything but a shift to Glabro

As for what it LOOKS like I personally think that's an individual werewolf thing

The more experienced you are the more fluid it is

[open roost]

ok, cool

i dig it

[mighty zephyr]

I also think tribal affiliation also comes into play a bit

[open roost]

im just thinking like... american werewolf in london style, extended and painful, during the first change

[mighty zephyr]

Oh 100%

Even worse apparently

For instance your eyes don't just shape-shift into wolf eyes!

[open roost]

i also found this art which. i am a fan of

[mighty zephyr]

They liquidate

Then the goop reforms

[open roost]

👁️ 👁️

i mean i guess thats why everyone seems to have those yellow wolf eyes in the tribe art

[open roost]

So like, is a klaive just always a +2 weapon or is that only against werewolves.

[mighty zephyr]

In W5 any lethal damage is aggravated

so it is a +2 weapon against basically everything yeah

[open roost]

Rad

[orchid void]

Rite! Of! Pants!

[clear delta]

It's so funny

Wta just has this one inconvenience everyone starts with and you need to learn a rite for

[midnight grotto]

Glad to know the meme goes beyond my old college party

[high current]

only an inconvenience for urban packs tbh

[radiant marsh]

The Most Sacred Rite of Emergency Pants is what we called it

[radiant marsh]

I think it was WtF, but one of the books went into this

In that case, yeah it's explicitly painful body horror the first time, but as you get practiced with it, it just becomes very rapid body horror that just feels like a natural process.

Unless you use Essence to shift as a reflexive action, in which case it's just 'BAM! GAURU!' There wasn't a wolf or monster there before, now there is. Still changing, but so rapidly it's hard to keep up with it.

[clear delta]

Werewolf the forsaken is just very enthusiastic gardening

If you consider your territory a garden, and everything and everyone plants

[radiant marsh]

"I'm sorry, but you have to die."
"What? Why!?"
"Because you're ruining the vibe."

[timber talon]

Werewolf does a little pruning here and there and next thing you know police are getting called, blood is all over the weeds, and there is screaming in the air

[clear delta]

"Gods forbid a woman have a hobby"

[high current]

Reminds me of a game I had a while back where our... Whatever WtFs version stealthy auspice was called, tossed a pizza box as we were leaving somewhere, having forgotten said pizza box contained a few body parts from various people that our Rahu had gotten a bit angy at there was a period where the cops were searching for a serial killer because of us

[radiant marsh]

Irraka

[candid shadow]

God I wanna discuss my players characters more

Vampire is just one of those games that’s especially fun to design characters in

[orchid void]

WoD in general is great for making Dollies

[candid shadow]

So far I’ve got a former toreador graffiti artist who escaped their sire after they realized they would be forced to spent their undeath painting portraits and an old 1800s tzimisce who’s immigrated to the state after the tragic death and diablerization of her lover

[radiant marsh]

The aforementioned Malkavian investigator, a Gangrel who you'd be forgiven for mistaken for a Toreador up until the claws come out, and some horrible Shadow Lord Ahroun punk gremlin thing.

[open roost]

Havent gotten to play him but i did write up a nosferatu vigilante boxer for v5

[high hornet]

Malkavian massive invisible clown man that I managed to play one game of basically, and my chef LaSombra who is doing his best

[candid shadow]

Just making sure, the powers vampires have are known as those in universe right?

Like a Bruja refers to their super strength as potence?

[versed zodiac]

Depends on what degree of cultural context they have

Someone who knows clannish lore might call it Potence or Percutio, but a random Brujah who barely knows what "Brujah" means or what their clan bane is because they were embraced in the middle of nowhere by someone uninterested in teaching them might only know that they have extraordinary strength

[mighty zephyr]

they might call it potence or prosciutto

[candid shadow]

Ah ok, so then it’s known to wider vampire society but individual knowledge can be all over the place

Good to know

[candid shadow]

So I’m considering potential NPCs relating to my players backstories

And for the tzimisce player, I’m of two kinds

Their lover is a kinda Dracula expy, ancient Eastern European nobility who was known to be brutal in life and spent their undeath chilling

And I kinda want to introduce a sorta Van Helsing proxy to go with the theme

But on the other hand, WOD is dumb

So I kinda wanna make it actual Van Helsing

From Dracula the novel

Like he became immortal somehow and is pursuing his former prey in the states

[high hornet]

"okay so you have contact with one eastern european dae dude who is helping teach you so you have a chance to know this but it's hard so difficulty 7"

"Alright fuck me then"

[versed zodiac]

you should really ask your DM to hook you up with Inconnu

It's a lot easier to use

[mighty zephyr]

also

our pack now has 2 more members

in the WtA game

Two Ahroun

Karl is one of them and he's playing an Ahroun who's main mode of violence is hitting people with his possessed car.

ironically making myself an oracle in the process

as I had actually made the server icon this gif

[patent talon]

Lmaooo

[mighty zephyr]

Most of our pack: Truthseekers, activists, parents

Our Ahroun:

https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_s7osceHaU41r5z507.mp4

[versed zodiac]

Mon Bazou is back

[high hornet]

Happened in our game today 😄

[timber talon]

Vampire power of prosciutto

[clear delta]

Thyrsus lich who attains immortality by turning into an ecosystem. Or a shadow court. Or both at once

[high hornet]

I vote Lich

[clear delta]

The lich party. Most voters are the lich

[supple quail]

fate lich who locked their death away?

can probably do a lich for all the different arcana

[clear delta]

Saw a sympathy lich on the forums. Lost meat bodies, abd use ones made of sympathies

[orchid void]

There's an old russian fairy-tale, Kosechi the Deathless, who took his soul and hid it in a needle, in an egg, in a hen, in a chest, on an abandoned island, in the middle of a wild storm.

That strikes me as a very Fate way to handle the problem

[supple quail]

yup

[mighty zephyr]

Ask Bird to teach you how she did it

[clear delta]

Another version has a candle instead of a needle, and the chest in the depths of the ocean

[orchid void]

Lots of ways to do it then :3

[clear delta]

I read it as a kid, and added another character so hard I was sure he was part of the story years later

[chilly vault]

Koschei is immortal in a whole bunch of ways

[short quiver]

I actually learned about him from the Sandman books
Specifically the one where the 250-year-old bag lady wants Death to help find her heart, because she hid it somewhere. Possibly in a duck egg inside a duck inside a log in the middle of a lake in the middle of an island or possibly not. She's up there in years and her mind wanders, you know.

[mighty zephyr]

I can't decide that now that we have 2 Ahrouns if I become more stereotypically Theurge and go Int 4

or keep my strength and stam at 3 and continue being a Beefy Boy