World of Darkness

[heady kestrel]

I don’t know what made them tbh

[mighty zephyr]

Saying Idigam and Pangean like they're different things is a bit misleading

[heady kestrel]

Eh its still a useful distinction

If only politically

Especially for the purposes of discussing hosts

[clear delta]

???

[mighty zephyr]

Most Idigam are just gods that Wolf couldn't kill

[clear delta]

Thought Pangaeans, and the spirits that used to be pangaeans, worked differently to the Idigam

[mighty zephyr]

They did/do!

But Pangeans existed because the Border Marches existed, and with the Gauntlet they all had to Become Something Else

The Firstborn are Spirit-Gods now but they weren't always

and the Idigam are what they are now because they were stuck on Luna or in the bowls of the Earth and mutated because their original natures could no longer exist in the world.

[spice abyss]

Idigam were always strange, iirc

[mighty zephyr]

https://i.imgur.com/63Ck4Kz.png

[fair jungle]

wat

[grave gulch]

oh shit

[mighty zephyr]

He's half-joking in this dialogue but it's INCREDIBLY funny

(He is genuinely an eco-terrorist tho)

[fair jungle]

I mean
He's a Garou so
I find hard NOT to be one when you are fighting directly against Pentex

[chilly vault]

I gotta give OWoD credit

Pentex is a great name for an antagonist corporation

[grave gulch]

must suck to be the pentex forklift driver

[mighty zephyr]

Spoiler but

||I just fell into the Black Spiral Labrynth and immediately Lost The Wolf, meaning I couldn't use Gifts or transform||

[velvet sparrow]

Could be worse

[grave gulch]

yes

you could be stuck with Big D

[fair jungle]

||Awoo to teh moon silly /j||

[fair jungle]

He would have fun stories to tell at least

honestly sometimes he makes me feel more opitimistic and accept less negativety

[mighty zephyr]

So update

There's also non-nazi cult in this novel

[grave gulch]

Cool

[mighty zephyr]

MY PROGRESS

IN THE NOVEL

GOT ERASED

WITH THE PATCH

:CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

[fair jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/john-wick-4-fall-stairs-gif-10023029565514394388

[fair jungle]

No you see
A mage did it

[hybrid dock]

Neco arc gate Ochetma

My friends in vc urged me to post this string of words

[clear delta]

A commenter in the thread

Also, I know it's not intended, but I noticed that her metaphysics acknowledge the imperial system of measurement.

[clear delta]

Cutest abomination

[clear delta]

The void beckons

[acoustic plaza]

Do you guys think they’ll be new changing breeds in W5?

[short notch]

aw dang, the Choice of Games WoD stuff is (usually) pretty good, but Heart of the Forest was so great that i was hoping this would be a follow-up

oh well

[heady kestrel]

How good of a YouTube apology do I need to do to help forgiven for Desecrating my magic with the dark book given to me by the Scelestus

Need reply fast

[mighty zephyr]

Get your ukelele out

I'm sure it'll be fine

[heady kestrel]

Its not like I prostrated before a ziggurat or anything

I was just checking it out

Secret 11th arcanum

And now everyone is mad at me

I did give a vampire worms but

[mighty zephyr]

If it helps I'm having an absurdly great time with it

[short notch]

oh yeah, it really looks interesting. and i went ahead and picked up a copy since it's 25% off and free DLC

it's not that i'm disappointed so much as i just thought that Heart of the Forest was really interesting design-wise and deserved to be followed up on

like the way that it uses visuals so that you're not entirely text-based the way the CoG games are, but also allows more flexibility and reactivity to player choice than stuff like the Draw Distance VtM VNs

[clear delta]

Oh, in a podcast or mage show, tge opening needs to change to Super Affection during this arc. And look cute with background creepiness

[grave gulch]

Does a vamps mind degrade with time?

their ancients sort of go berserk whenever they awake right? Is that due to their age or something else?

[acoustic plaza]

Probs

[mighty zephyr]

Every vamp does this if they're starved

[grave gulch]

so

they hungry for breakfast

[acoustic plaza]

Pretty much

[mighty zephyr]

Ye

[dense vault]

Hangry

[chilly vault]

Requiem or Masquerade?

[grave gulch]

Masquerade

[velvet sparrow]

Not... inherently

Although rare is the vampire who doesn't fall more and more the the Beast as they age

[versed zodiac]

ran VtM today

finally revealed the main villain of the campaign

v. happy

[short quiver]

nice

[clear delta]

Cold open for geist.
Character(s) wake up in a truck, tied up near shovels. They see Bound, and maybe manifested ghosts. And recognize one or more of them.

[mighty zephyr]

ah HA

Galestalkers and Red Talons ARE confirmed for this book >:D

[grave gulch]

ya mean the DorkStalkers and the Red Dorks

[mighty zephyr]

Attacks you

[grave gulch]

[fair jungle]

noice :3c
Glass walkers?

[mighty zephyr]

Already playable

[fair jungle]

perfect

I just wish it had the same presentation as the other Garou Visual Novel

[versed zodiac]

DorkStalkers
you're gonna hurt Morrigan's feelings

[grave gulch]

why morrigan specifically?

[versed zodiac]

she's iconic?

[grave gulch]

[clear delta]

She appeared in the marvel vs capcom crossover

[grave gulch]

I know

[versed zodiac]

Morrigan shows up in all Darkstalkers-related things

[grave gulch]

i just thought this was some joke that i wasnt getting

cause we talking werewolves

and the boom

morrigan

and im like

[mighty zephyr]

my progress in the novel has reset

again

because of the update

[clear delta]

OOF

I hate losing progress

[mighty zephyr]

I was in the final chapter

[grave gulch]

Blame the wizards

[acoustic plaza]

Wizard is a strong word
We prefer the term “Reality Deviant”

[fair jungle]

at this point start making back ups an d if you lose your save file, return to a previous update

[mighty zephyr]

I did

[velvet sparrow]

Hello!

I have been struck by the urge to create a custom Bloodline for Vampire the Masquerade

Entirely so I can give them the weakness (Cannot enter a home uninvited)

Does anyone have any advice?

[short notch]

Advice for which part, the fluff or the mechanics?

[velvet sparrow]

All of it, really

I have a very rough start, I know the weakness (although am thinking it could be worded better) and know that I want Dominate

Want to lean more into the like, Nobility/traditional/stereotypical vampire vibe

[short notch]

I guess my first question would be, which edition do you want to go for? V5 folds bloodlines into loresheets, which is a bit simpler medically but also doesn't make them as all-defining as they are in V20

[velvet sparrow]

Ah yes, my bad. V20

[orchid void]

Wish I could help out, but I only really know Requiem stuff these days

[clear delta]

So, you're associating them with etiquette and decorum? Rules and territory?

[velvet sparrow]

Yeah, that sounds pretty close

[rare swallow]

Well I imagine they'd be a Tzimisce bloodline

[orchid void]

Could do that they get bonuses when people break sacred hospitality, but they suffer for breaking the same rules

[clear delta]

Could have them usually have a restrained persona. Not prone to impulse, which helps to avoid breaking hospitality/laws, and some time to think if someone actually broke it

[velvet sparrow]

Was thinking Tzimisce or Tremere, yeah

Er

Ventrue

Tzimisce or Ventrue

[heady kestrel]

Promethan Disquiet I think

[orchid void]

okay so

bit much, not really

[grave gulch]

I'll get rid of the post

[orchid void]

what id call on topic

No need for that

I just wanna set the tone for conversation

[grave gulch]

I dont wanna be a problem!

[mighty zephyr]

I DID IT

I FINISHED BOOK OF HUNGRY NAMES

It's really good!

Wait to get it until they are done updating it!

[short notch]

i already got it but i shall hold off playing until the update rush is over

[mighty zephyr]

Either that or just turn off auro updates

Either works

[short notch]

noted

i'm still in the middle of an Elden Ring playthrough but i might jump over if i end up needing a break from that

[mighty zephyr]

The main problem with the updates is that they reset your progress an arbitrary amount

[mighty zephyr]

One thing I am still kinda struggling with when it comes to Apocalypse is how Spirits work I think

It seems like Incarnae are relatively easily accessible, and maybe it's just avatars and aspects, but Gods are just everywhere and it seems like nothing is an individual

[grave gulch]

Btw

Wizards bend reality

so if im thinking of a wizard who went mad

Like one of the examples given to me by Wax

[mighty zephyr]

That's a thing in both versions of Mage

[grave gulch]

would some of their delusions come to reality?

[mighty zephyr]

Marauders/The Rapt

[grave gulch]

what do they do?

[mighty zephyr]

In Ascension they are immune to consensus

They are walking realities unto themselves

This means they usually explode after a bit

In Awakening they're what happens if you hit Wisdom 0

[grave gulch]

So they turn into walking blackholes?

[mighty zephyr]

Nope

They just impose their own rules onto reality

A lot of Marauder writing is very "and then wacky lolrandom"

Very much the era of "Mental illness = You talk about flying purple hippos and birthday cakes and licorice burritos"

[grave gulch]

A flying purple hippo sounds worse than a werewolf

Mages are complex

[versed zodiac]

Marauders should walk into the function and start causing sympathetic magic shit to happen without anyone's say-so because that's just how their nimbus functions

[digital siren]

I wonder if Mages are the reason some supernatural creatures exists

[clear delta]

Which one inspired you? I gave you muktiple Rapt.

[mighty zephyr]

Marauders don't have nimbuses

Nimbuses are CofD

[versed zodiac]

Whoops

[versed zodiac]

Mummies? Possibly?

[grave gulch]

The one obsessed with reincarnation

[velvet sparrow]

Marauders are really nasty, because they are immune to Paradox

But in a really Fun way

[mighty zephyr]

I think Mages "making" other splats is inherently less interesting than other splats just becoming extant

[velvet sparrow]

As in, they still get Paradox, they just bounce the effects to the nearest non-Marauder Mage

As a big Mage fan: Yeah no let other splats be seperate, it's better when Mages are just like, one part of the setting

[versed zodiac]

“Mages are the most important/coolest part of WoD” needs to be stopped

[velvet sparrow]

Absolutely

[clear delta]

Well, Awakening archmages can give or remove supernatural templates. Generally, supernaturals have patrons on this level of power and above. Like archmages, rank 6+ entities. They need lesser beings to better influence the world

A mage messing with werewolves gets torn apart

By lords of the spirit realm

[velvet sparrow]

I mean, they are the coolest but that doesn't mean the other ones shouldn't get to be cool

[versed zodiac]

Blows up pancakes with mind

[clear delta]

However! You can have archmages creating their own critters

I love anankes and similar

[grave gulch]

Mages are responsible for at least one kind of vamp

[acoustic plaza]

While it is sad that they aren’t doing the Old Covers for WoD5 anymore (VtM’s old Rose-And-Coffin went hard), I am glad that W5’s cover isn’t a literal smattering of poo

[acoustic plaza]

Real Tremere Hours

[heady kestrel]

I could see a mage making a deviant or Promethan but that is just…. Ya know

Mages not knowing when to fuck off and stop pursuing their obsession and so they create one of the creatable guys

[chilly vault]

Creating a Promethean is a deeply hubristic thing to do so yeah a mage could absolutely do it

But I wouldn’t have that be a mage thing

Just an asshole thing

[heady kestrel]

Oh yeah its not a Mage thing

That’s just them being assholes

For mage reasons

[mighty zephyr]

Individual people getting fucked up is fine I just mean like

"A mage made Vampires"

"A mage made Werewolves"

[heady kestrel]

OH I misinterpreted ok

[mighty zephyr]

etcetc

[chilly vault]

Yeah I agree that’s not so great

(Any mage with an ounce of wisdom, frankly, would take one look at a Promethean, wish them the best of luck, and fuck off well before the disquiet set in)

(“Mage with an ounce of wisdom” lol)

[heady kestrel]

My wisdom: failing
My hands: shaking
My prime: 5

Hmmmm

What would be the weirdest splat to get left handed about

[mighty zephyr]

Changeling imo

[heady kestrel]

What would interacting with The Hedge be Arcanum wise?

Arcadia feels like a Fate Empowered world

Like if you were there fate spells would cause less paradox

Very confused, very evil Acanthus

[mighty zephyr]

I think a Mage would go "I could be a Gentry for a week definitely"

[heady kestrel]

I wonder if it would even be that hard to blend in

Seeing as the gentry are so mercurial in their identities

[clear delta]

Fate mind I think

The wyrd is under those

[mighty zephyr]

Imagine trying to diguise yourself as a building

[clear delta]

And a dev said ctl stuff like. Fits well with acanthus and mastigos mage sight

Honestly. Turning into a place is tempting.

[heady kestrel]

probably easier in Arcadia

[clear delta]

Imagine there are liches who fused with the earth

[heady kestrel]

Genus Loci Lichdom

[spice abyss]

Ah, Stone Pilots

[orchid void]

The Stone Pilots rule

I wanna interview a mummy grandpa from Neolithic Spain about his attempts to escape the fallen world via falling into stars

[mighty zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-mazdamundi-total-war-warhammer-lizardmen-hexoatl-cold-ones-gif-19540634

[orchid void]

this is what’s going on in the hollow earth btw the government doesn’t want you to know that

[mighty zephyr]

The fucking

"Oh yeah all these shifters existed for millions of years before humans but their "human" form was all lizard people"

If anyone tried to tell me that at face value even if I was a werewolf I'd beat their ass

[orchid void]

i was making a joke but u kno what

fuck yeah lemme see a wolfdragon that shape changes to a serpentman

or a like. Lemurian.

[mighty zephyr]

Horror setting btw

[acoustic plaza]

Real

(Me pondering my device)

[orchid void]

fiction is a d3. it’s either a farce or a horror or horny.

[grave gulch]

is that a frog?

[mighty zephyr]

That is Lord Mazdamundi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3CmxjTFv_Y

and that is all I will link before we go off topic

[grave gulch]

he's cute

i want a lord mazdamundi plush

sell lizard king plush

give him the profit

[orchid void]

This Is Just Exalted

Love when WoD is exalted it’s always funny

[mighty zephyr]

Correct!

[mighty zephyr]

Motherfucker on the Pteradactyl is literally just a Kroot

[patent talon]

What if there was a group of mages that tried to do the opposite, dig deeper and deeper into the underworld until they can escape out to the arsehole of reality

Mages so seeped in Death that they couldn't return to the surface even if they wanted to, their very presence is corrosive to anything that isn't a ghost

[clear delta]

Oh, nice

[mighty zephyr]

I believe there are Ghost Lich Cults yeah

[fair jungle]

I still find fascinating how this is part of the WEREWOLF lore

and nowadays the were-crocodiles are not
Were-crocodiles
it is, in fact
Were-past creatures, because they are the 'memories of gaia'
so they can, and will, turn into a fucking t-rex

[grave gulch]

are the nazis inside hollow earth also werewolf lore?

[fair jungle]

I think that's Mage lore

[clear delta]

Yeah. Ascension mage is pretty crazy.
Huh. I think their lore has a different vibe, but I can't describe it

[chilly vault]

Ascension feels like it was written by a big fan of The Invisibles and Persona 2

[sacred viper]

This is a Mage vibe

[clear delta]

Come to Brazil

[mighty zephyr]

Boy...

[midnight grotto]

Invisibles is very Mage, yeah

[grave gulch]

Here comes the boy

[fair jungle]

It's him! He came to mage!

[spice abyss]

Hee ho!

[patent talon]

Fun fact about Invisibles: Writer Grant Morrison became convinced that they were weaving a spell while writing the comic, as they suffered an injury when King Mob did in the comic. This is thought to explain why Mob ends up later having lots of sex

[clear delta]

Lmao

[midnight grotto]

Yeah the important thing about Invisibles being a Mage story is that the author themself is pretty much a Mage

And has been locked in magical competition with Alan Moore for decades

At least according to one essayist

[fair jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/john-wick-4-fall-stairs-gif-10023029565514394388

D-
Did Grant had lots of sex later?

[dense vault]

I love those comic book writing wizard.

[fair jungle]

At least is not the same craziness level of that one time the Marvel CEO made a comic where god visits a bunch of random fucks with a time machine and wolverine was the first ever human

And they went on about "But but god, why the microbes have to die? :("

[clear delta]

From the microbes perspective, our sterilizing procedures are like a wrathful god descending

[fair jungle]

"CASTIGATE THE ENEMIES OF THE GODHAND
Wash hands with soap"

[clear delta]

Why, given life
Are we meant to die
Helpless in our cries
https://youtube.com/watch?v=39j5v8jlndM

[fair jungle]

Mages: Skill issue, lol

[patent talon]

Unsure, we can only hope for the best

[clear delta]

What if Alan moore counterspelled his sex spell

[orchid void]

Yeah The Invisibles is basically How-to-Ascension

Good comic even if it’s aged poorly

A lot of that poor aging comes from the fact it’s a good primer on US conspiracy lore and that’s now what fascists love

[fair jungle]

sad
Fascists ruin so many things

I can't fucking wear viking shit otherwise I might be branded a skin head >:V

[grave gulch]

what kind of viking stuff are we talking about?

i thought they only took that one rune

[orchid void]

world of darkness is still the topic but remember it’s okay to punch the Pure

[grave gulch]

can i push them down some stairs instead?

i dont think i'll survive punching them

[heady kestrel]

My anti werewolf strategy remains Grain Submersion

Get em like this

[valid merlin]

the void

[fair jungle]

The Pure?

[fair jungle]

The rune, the compass... it's a shit fuck

[heady kestrel]

Chronciles of darkness evil werewolves who serve extremely strong wood spirits instead of Luna

[fair jungle]

oooooh

[heady kestrel]

The three big ones are
Eugenicists
Anprims
Religious freaks

Chronciles of darkness werewolf has wild antagonists

Like
What the fuck are hosts

what
are
hosts

Like I know what they are but… what

[grave gulch]

in a good ol GW fashion

stealing stuff for my wod games

is fun

i'm stealing spooky stuff from the irish now

[clear delta]

Wood spirits?

Don't remember that

[mighty zephyr]

They follow mad totem lords (who are basically implied to be a lot of the same spirits that ruled the Garou in Apocalypse)

[heady kestrel]

I meant to say Wolf

[grave gulch]

I was thinking

High humanity vamps, thin bloods, wizards, werewolves

All of these you could meet on the street and just like....see them trying to enjoy normality

Cause these guys probably have a life outside of their spooky business

Vamps probably do a bit less cause the big mean vamps try to control everything

But still

I could be a hunter and my best friend is a supernatural and both of us dont even know about the other's secret business

[velvet sparrow]

I have learned of something amazing and horrible

This was found in itch.io recent releases

[short notch]

I low-key have a CoD grand crossover campaign concept for a loose organization of a city's supernaturals banding together to watch out for and put a stop to the big apocalyptic supernatural threats

Because despite their differences nobody wants their city to go boom

And the mortals generally don't know what to keep an eye out for or what to do about it if they do happen to notice

[velvet sparrow]

You'll never guess what that summary is

[versed zodiac]

Okay spill

[velvet sparrow]

Spoiler:

It's Mages. Mages are right about everything

[versed zodiac]

Magepost from a mageposter, astounding

[mighty zephyr]

sounds about right

[short quiver]

oh God I'm getting early 2000s message board flashbacks...

For real though there were always Issues when the WoD was both trying to a) present itself as a single gothic-punk setting where its various flavors of ghoulies and ghosties could go bump into each other in the night but also b) allow all of its settings free rein to make statement about high-level metaphysics or even basic fact statements about the setting without worrying about whether it contradicted the other lines.

Even then, every line had its own metaphysical explanation for all the other game lines, but Mage (gameline and players) was always the most insistent that its explanation was the correct one & everyone else was just getting it wrong.

...not even getting into the brief but funny period where "Exalted is the prehistory of the WoD" was something they were really running with.

[hybrid dock]

I’m about to start pissing off werewolves in the mage game I’m in

Probably

Fucking around with some spirits

[clear delta]

Talk to space spirits. They're totally nice

[hybrid dock]

Fucking around with spirits hours

Thrysus girl

[grave gulch]

I know mages making other supernaturals is boring

Buuuut

Dr.frankenstein being a life mage

sounds fitting

[clear delta]

Promethean is all about being created by people with hubris. It's fine

[grave gulch]

since hunter is my favorite one, i like to think of random monsterd and sfuff

I would probably make the thing it created be like a body part stealer tho

Like that weird brain dude

[mighty zephyr]

I think a Mage being your Alchemist should do some psycho shit to brain

like if a cabal makes a Deviant

[clear delta]

Also, deviants

[hybrid dock]

That tracks

[clear delta]

Moros who loves seeing souls meltdown

[grave gulch]

Your alchemist?

[clear delta]

People involved in creation of prometheans, and for the unethical, harvest of materials from them for alchemy

However, prometheans may also be created by other prometheans

[spice abyss]

In fact, most Prometheans are.

That's one of the bad things about the Journey.

Making another life is a part of the human existence you need to understand, you see.

[fair jungle]

I refuse I MUST PROTECT MY VIRGINITY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlxfDvSyPKA

[clear delta]

Thought you coukd do thst step in other ways? Leaving some sort of legacy

[fair jungle]

Good point, or even helping someone turn around his life for the better

Maybe being a teacher of young children or wokring on a orphanage

[clear delta]

I saw the creation of other prometheans described as pregnancy having the chance of producing rabid wolverines or the zodiac killer. Thus, one of the biggest dick kicks in promethean existence.

[acoustic plaza]

Hey if K***-J*nn were ever “redone” as a normal VTM clan, what would their disciplines be?

My guess is:

• Animism
• Blood Sorcery
• Protean

[mighty zephyr]

I literally read that as "King John" and I was like

"When the fuck was he a vampire clan"

[orchid void]

I know Requiem wrote up Jiang Shi as a clan in ONE book but fuck me if I know where

[mighty zephyr]

Dark Eras

[mighty zephyr]

Jiangshi aren't technically vampires either

they actually say to use Hobgoblins for particularly powerful ones

otherwise they're just Humans with +3 dots in strength, natural armor, and the ability to deal Aggravated damage by sucking Chi

[supple quail]

what are space spirits like

does the ISS have a spirit/could? what about orbital debris?

what happens if the debris spirits fall back down?

[mighty zephyr]

Completely incompatible with our world

Luna does her best to keep them up in space

[supple quail]

like abyss level incompatible or?

[mighty zephyr]

Almost

Spirits made by man are less insane

However they also are responsible for letting the Idigam out

[heady kestrel]

Would like… a meteor spirit of a meteor that didn’t completely disentigrate be super fucked up and alien for example?

[clear delta]

Void spirits are starving. But when they reach the bountiful earth, it's hard for them to fit in. It's alien, overwhelming

[mighty zephyr]

Yes

[heady kestrel]

Cool

[clear delta]

They create cocoons.
If a wolf passes by, an atavistic instinct to purge them using a method that no longer works in the current world

[mighty zephyr]

There's 3 types of void spirits

[clear delta]

If a ghost wolf tries that

[mighty zephyr]

The void spirits of cold dark space
Planetary Angels
And VOID LEVIATHANS

[clear delta]

They get taken over abd turned into void reavers, avatars for the void spirits to feed

[mighty zephyr]

That happened in my cowboy werewolf game!

[clear delta]

Because fuck ghost wolves, everything goes wrong with them

Planetary spirits are less fucked up, but are still dicks. They are actually spirits of sunlight reflected off the planets. So they have a tinge of Helios' uncompromising and imperious nature

[supple quail]

Idigam?

[supple quail]

I imagine the void spirits are the ones that are weird? do they do stuff such as make air stop existing locally?

[mighty zephyr]

They make reality start to become undone

Shadows get starker and longer, the First Tongue begins to stop functioning as a language, loci dry up, spirits start getting aggressive

[mighty zephyr]

Idigams are ancient god-like beings that Father Wolf couldn't kill so he threw them at the Moon.

[supple quail]

ah, the classic solution to problems

[clear delta]

Oh. Planet spirits are called planetary angels

They hate Luna abd werewolves, slaughters lunes

They stir chaos on Earth

[mighty zephyr]

(Technically planetary angels are not planetary spirits)

They are the spirits of sunlight reflected off the planets

[clear delta]

Expressed myself badly

[mighty zephyr]

Nah I'm just being pedantic

[clear delta]

Anyway, the planetary angels aren't quite indicative of their homes' ecosystems

Being reflected sunlight abd thus partially of helios

They're hate mail sent by other planets

[mighty zephyr]

"I am sending my strongest haters to fuck up that planet"

[mighty zephyr]

I need find someone who can run W5 for me

[clear delta]

Why does werewolf folklore start tales with "this story is true"?

[heady kestrel]

To clarify the story is not false/j

[mighty zephyr]

Because it's cool

It's basically the werewolf version of "Once upon a time"

[clear delta]

Was wondering why this im specific got picked

Maybe it means "whatever qctually happened and was lost to the ages, this story carries truth"?

[mighty zephyr]

Essentially yeah.

[versed zodiac]

plus it's a refrain that kinda reinforces the vibe that werewolf lore is something passed down by word of mouth, reassuring someone that a story is true is very typical to when you're actually telling someone a story in person

[clear delta]

Facts not getting accurately passed down but having the truth/meaning conveyed

Cool theme

[orchid void]

Like, Anansi stories always end with “This is my story as I have told it- if it is sweet, if it is not, let it come, let it go”

Sometimes you just have a Refrain for Stories

Especially for stories that do not have pages to tell you when they start n stop

[spice abyss]

Telling that Mages don't try for that

[orchid void]

No, like proper occultists mages say shit like “As the willworkers of eld knew”

Or “So it was written, by Hermes Tristmagius”

[versed zodiac]

or "tis certainly true, and tis true without lying"

[heady kestrel]

"If only you payed more attention to Atlantean Lore"

"Had you read my other papers you would know"

[clear delta]

Oh yeah. Atlantis is fake but true

[acoustic plaza]

The city is sleeping

It’s taking a lil nap

[clear delta]

A bunch of pasts crashed together, that can't be understood

But which formed the myths that are part of the foundations of the diamond

[heady kestrel]

its not just Diamond mfs who just say shit

"actually I interviewed the Father in the astral plane so I know what the Exarchs REALLY want"

or the free council with
"Fun fact Disney's frozen contains supernal symbols"

[short quiver]

The Supernal effects the Fallen but also reflects it.
If as above so below then, it follows, as below so above.
Occupy The Supernal.

[mighty zephyr]

Reading more old werewolf lore

Flabbergasted that the Cult of Fenris in 5th edition is the most tolerant the Fenrir have been in the history of the game.

[patent stirrup]

Remember that in oWoD The Traditions were the only player faction of a major splat that dose not have members who fought on the side of the axis in WWII

[mighty zephyr]

That's

Not correct at all

The Verbana off the top of my head sided with the fascists

[patent stirrup]

No? the big thing of WWII for Mages was that the Technocracy got in with the fascists early, and then the switched sides in the erlay 40's

Granted consisten lore in oWoD is not a thing

[mighty zephyr]

Everything I have read has said that the Verbana and Hermetics both had large fascist contingents

[patent stirrup]

Yes, and having a arge fascist contingent dose not meen they fought on the side of the axis, the US had a arge fascist contingent and would up fighting them.

[mighty zephyr]

I mean they sided with the Nazis

Like fought with the Germans

[patent stirrup]

yeah and that contradics what we have read

Has the stuff you read said that the Russian civil war was little more then a proxi war for the Silver Fangs and Brujia? becouse that used to bea thing that came up a lot in the erlay books

[mighty zephyr]

I am checking the wiki and the heavily sourced page on WW2 says that every Awakened faction helped the Nazis

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/World_War_II_(WOD)#cite_note-virtualadepts18-16

[patent stirrup]

Ok they changed the lore seance the verbena spalt book we have was published

[mighty zephyr]

I also did not realize that the Get of Fenris had a modified swastika as their glyph

[short quiver]

yup

They've tried to justify it, by having the two lines that go straight and then curved like that mean "wolf," and so the same sign twice is representing them as wolves who are get of the wolf
But yeah also that is clearly a swastika

[mighty zephyr]

It's so fucking nuts

All the Get Lore is about how racist, misogynistic, or intolerant they are

[spice abyss]

There's a reason I said I hate Werewolf the Apocalypse

[short quiver]

I have a certain fondness for it. It means a lot to me.
But it has some Problems

[mighty zephyr]

I'm fully willing to ride out W5

But people adhering to legacy need to give me a reason other than Nostalgia why the old versions are better

[acoustic plaza]

Conclusion: mage is superior

You get to punch Nazis!

[mighty zephyr]

As the other nazis

[short quiver]

do have to say
the "conspiracy" stuff in oWoD seemed a lot more fun in 1999

[acoustic plaza]

Man I’m running orphans

We serve no god!

[patent stirrup]

And in the bush era as well

insomniac (they) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) do have to say
the "conspiracy" stuff in oWoD seemed a lot more fun in 1999

[mighty zephyr]

My Mage is an orphan so based actually

[acoustic plaza]

But yeah, the conspiracy stuff hasn’t really… aged well today

[acoustic plaza]

I had a concept for an Etherite that was just Dr. Frankenstein

[mighty zephyr]

My Mage believes that the gauntlet is the original sin of the world that divided Flesh and Shadow from their true primordial selves

[acoustic plaza]

That’s neat

I gave my mage electrick gauntlets to engage in my favorite hobby:

Violently and Rapidly bludgeoning people!

[short quiver]

It's probably incredibly pretentious of me to start talking about Umberto Ecco when discussing grown adults pretending to be sexy wizards, but Foucault's Pendulum really did do a good job of representing the way conspiratorial thinking can creep into you, even when you start the whole thing as a joke

[velvet sparrow]

Oh?

[acoustic plaza]

I mean, I just watch MiniMinuteman vids to make sure I don’t get Conspiracy brainrot

(That being said, I do watch Esoterica… but he seems to be pretty normal)

[acoustic plaza]

Also Psychopomp is a good piece of media about conspiracies if ur a gamer

[clear delta]

Really need to read foucault

[short quiver]

So it's a very dense book, but really broadly, the plot starts when our narrator (who's a grad student studying the Knights Templars) meets up with some book publishers (who only know the Templars through the conspiracy theories of the crank authors in their esoteric print)
They start to put together a Grand Occult Conspiracy of Everything as a joke, figuring out how they can piece together everything they can to make up what's going on
But one of the effects is that inventing this big occultic worldview that can connect to anything means that anything you find seems to connect back into it.

[short quiver]

He's great, although like I said, dense.
What I've read of his I basically took the position that I trust him to explain any of his references that are plot-critical and assume that all the other ones he makes are as smart as they sound.

[acoustic plaza]

I mean, there are plenty of normal people in occult groups…

[spice abyss]

Ehhhhh>

There's a certain degree of not in the norm you need to be.

It's like being a math major in college.

Or running ttrpgs

[short quiver]

Yeah but the idea he was showing as "dangerous" wasn't the magic stuff itself, more the conspiratorial thing.
You get a framework to explain things that's designed to connect to anything. New information you encounter can connect to the explanatory framework (which is its whole point, that's how it's designed). The fact that it connects so well makes the framework seem more supported.

[acoustic plaza]

Ag gotcha

[short quiver]

My last session with a bunch of people from my old group I did a not-actually-joking about how meeting back up with the RPG gamers I knew in 2004, turns out pretty much everyone was ADHD, trans, or both.

[spice abyss]

My point precisely. 😛

[acoustic plaza]

REEEEAAAAAAL

[timber talon]

Can vampires get indirectly drunk

By feeding on a drunk guy

[hidden rock]

Yeah, it's a thing in most editions

going as deep as whatever specialness other splats have (like drinking woof blood is a very bad idea, frenzy-wise)

[dense vault]

Yeah, there's even flaws and merits related to it.

[grave gulch]

Btw

If a werebat sucks a vamps vitae

Do ya just have a werebat who's addicted to vamp blood running around now?

[hidden rock]

As a rule of thumb, powers don't mix. That way lies Samuel Haight.

May he hold ashes forever in torment

[grave gulch]

No yeah powers dont mix

But vamp blood is still highly addictive

no?

[hidden rock]

Yeah, that still goes

Also, hello first stage blood bond

[grave gulch]

That would be bad news for the werebat

Would it still get blood bonded if the vamp died tho?

Or would you get blood bonded to it's sire?

[hidden rock]

No transfer, and the result is variable: can be elation at being freed, or depression at losing the regnant, or even looking for another regnant.

Considering the obsessive streak of the Camatotz, it's probably extremely dangerous for the vamp too, honestly.

[grave gulch]

[heady kestrel]

Demon the Descent

[chilly vault]

Sounds legit

Hybrid vigor

[heady kestrel]

Damn the mage 2e bridge story is… sad

Fucked up mystery that is

[clear delta]

What is it about?

[heady kestrel]

A woman being interviewed by a Guardian Of The Veil for the murder of her wife

It contains both a mystery in the supernal sense and in the more mundane one

Both the Guardian and the mage being interviewed are the main characters

The mage being interviewed parts are written through the medium of a letter to her dead wife, while the Guardian Of the Veil has a more traditional narration

[clear delta]

Oh that one. Forgot there was a bridge

Outis interviews the fail mastigos

[mighty zephyr]

Also turns out that the vamprie game I invited someone to run using my werewolf group is indeed being run and with my werewolf group just

Without me

[midnight grotto]

...damn

sorry bud

[chilly vault]

Ooof

[versed zodiac]

Wait, after you GMed the last game?!

Dick move.

[mighty zephyr]

[short quiver]

shiiit

[grave gulch]

Let me at em

[versed zodiac]

I just wanna talk-

racks shotgun

I JUST WANNA TALK

[heady kestrel]

Does Outis from Mage The Awakening 2e have more text written on them?

[candid shadow]

I might be playing in a Hunter or werewolf game soon

We’re still deciding

[patent talon]

I think they're detailed more in the Tome of the Pentacle section on New York

[mighty zephyr]

I am reading more old werewolf lore

it is kinda funny how they have been using the same goddamn names for things for like 30 years

found the Predator Kings, the Eaters of the Dead, the Fangs of Garm

[clear delta]

Recycling is good

Help the environment

[heady kestrel]

Eat people

[grave gulch]

Ok captain planet

[clear delta]

If I were captain planet the climate here would be a lot more stable

[mighty zephyr]

god it's all eugenics

[acoustic plaza]

My ass trying to enjoy some WoD content
Little Timmy Tom Tim who got into it via Powerscaling videos:

[rare swallow]

Literally the only times I've seen people raging about W5 has been people raging about all the eugenics they took out tbh.
To clarify this is my experience, I'm sure there's probably some people out there with some legitimate criticisms, but...

[mighty zephyr]

I mean listen there's some legitimate complaints with W5 I can't super defend

There's a lot of editing mistakes for the most part

and some of the lore is a bit too vague at times

but I think otherwise it's the only time the game's been approachable by normal human people

[rare swallow]

Yeah those are fair, but most of the time I've seen people complain about them removing metis and making the get unplayable villains 😬

[mighty zephyr]

The Cult aren't even unplayable!

They have a loresheet!

[spice abyss]

You just can't play the Nazis

[grave gulch]

It's not like it wouldnt be easy enough to homebrew get of fenris stuff

But hating everyone and everyone being your enemy doesnt look very fun

[mighty zephyr]

That's sorta the problem with me

even if the Get were put in

they're just

"I fight things! And I am strong!"

There's so little substance that isn't the misogyony and the racism it's just your stock-standard viking stereotypes and might makes right

[clear delta]

What do you all think of white hare society?

I like the idea of hunters going to other worlds

Saw someone say their endowment is kinda aimless

[mighty zephyr]

I have never heard of this

where's it from?

[clear delta]

New book

Lemme look up the name

Tending the Flame

Kinda having the idea of a ship going into other worlds and hunting horrors. Like a weird moby dick

[mighty zephyr]

I think that's pretty sick

[clear delta]

I think the vibe of the white hare society is supposed to be more colonialist, but that fits well enough with hunting creatures of a place, for say resources.
And weird pequod could very well be people who discarded the colonialism after seeing horrible things waiting to enter our world, and committed to fighting them.

[heady kestrel]

I am also honestly down for some colonialist coded monster hunters

[clear delta]

Yeah, could start as colonialists harvesting monsters for materials and clearing areas to settle in. Then a schism happens and now there's a bunch of people stealing a rocket to fight Skybreaker

[clear delta]

Crashing rocket
From hell's heart, I strike at thee

[heady kestrel]

Hey I forget and I am too lazy to check do Demon contracts have a taksiebacksies mechanic where someone can destroy the article the contract is on to take it back or is that something I dreamnt

[sacred viper]

Yes they have tgar

[heady kestrel]

that is always fun and cinematic

[clear delta]

Yeah. Big thing for people who did soul pacts. Since they can look for and destroy it

Ones story has contracts being given to two demons, who seek out the humans to cash them in

[clear delta]

Hmm. The whales from limbus company are cool monsters
They swallow ships then expose them to their oil and spit them out changed. This allows the whale's tissues to merge with their victims abd warp them. People turn into mermaids, monsters with sea life features that do the whale's bidding. The oil of dead whales will just "degrade the self" until there's nothing left.
A company collects the oil to create "tuning forks" that can merge objects

[clear delta]

Here. Some body horror

[mighty zephyr]

considering joining a V5 or W5 game out in the wild

just to try it

[mighty zephyr]

Does anyone know/play in any of those big play-by-post servers that are around?

[candid shadow]

So I know the whole reason the masquerade exists is because humanity would wipe out vampires if they were discovered just on pure numbers

But do werewolves have the same fear?

Because individually they are pretty high up there on the supernatural threat hierarchy

[clear delta]

Humans would mock werewolves so badly for failing their job they'd die

[candid shadow]

Damn rip werewolves

[patent talon]

While werewolves are pretty strong one-on-one, like the vampires they'd be screwed if they had to face organised resistance, especially from governments with militaries

[grave gulch]

I mean a big war would also damage nature more than it would help it

And what deimos said

[candid shadow]

Ah ok, actually do all supernatural beings have their own masquerade or does everyone just collectively agree over the vampire rules for it?

[grave gulch]

I think everyone just understands that it is a lot safer for them if they remain hidden

[candid shadow]

Yah fair

[midnight grotto]

We talking Old or New

[supple quail]

numbers + ability to manufacture what they’re weak to is a pretty lethal combination

e.g put silver in the wells and everyday equipment

not sure how fae fair tho

[spice abyss]

Woofs are super outnumbered, like all splats

And their biggest problem for OWoD is that they would disrupt Technocracy's carefully crafted consensus, and thus rocket up that shitlist

[grave gulch]

oh yeah...technocracy...

[mighty zephyr]

Everyone would beat the Technocracy but then lose access to their Netflix account

Too high a price to pay...

[candid shadow]

Old

[candid shadow]

I need dungeon meshi

[grave gulch]

technocracy gave us stardew valley

[mighty zephyr]

Absolutely not

[grave gulch]

i think the technocracy is kind of boring

[midnight grotto]

"all technology is from the technocracy" is technocracy propaganda

[supple quail]

real and true

sadly propaganda also determines how things work in WoD

[mighty zephyr]

Only in Mage

And even then: No It Doesn't because Consensus is clearly bullshit

Things Consensus rejects: "Person shooting lightning"
Things Consensus abides: "Person shooting lightning (if they are also a werewolf)"

[versed zodiac]

Consensus seems to firmly be the stuff that Mages specifically can do without triggering a Paradox response if a Sleeper has to reconcile it with their version of reality

[orchid void]

So in oWoD basically everyone has a reason to stay hidden or establish a Masquerade. Woofs get it free with Magic Powers, people Forget what they saw when shape change gets involved. Mages have to avoid Consensus Consequences aka Paradox. Changelings just get called otherkin. Etc etc

[rare swallow]

Changelings do also pretty much get their own mind wipe thing like the werewolves
Wraiths do too, but the difference there is that the ghost law will come for your ass if you abuse mortals

For Changeling it's called the mists and for wraith it's called the fog, which totally doesn't get confusing at all

However the mists tend to be more of a curse than a boon most of the time, changelings kinda have to lead double lives or be treated as crazy and insane. And since most people forget anything fae they've seen, it's extremely hard to convince them otherwise.

[candid shadow]

Wait what do people remember when they seen a werewolf then?

[rare swallow]

Most of these effects kinda do the same thing; in the case of Werewolves people enter an extreme state of panic or hysteria and then forget what happened afterwards iirc

[candid shadow]

Ahh I see

[rare swallow]

Either that or justify things

The hysteria and fear also happen with the fog (Wraiths), people tend to just justify and brush aside fae stuff with the mists before forgetting

An extra thing is that for all of these effects, people with high willpower tend to be unaffected, except in Changeling where the effectiveness is based on Banality instead of Willpower.

Which is why hunters for ghosts and Werewolves still exist

[candid shadow]

So if someone with enough willpower saw a werewolf or changeling they’d actually be able to recognize what they’re seeing?

[orchid void]

If their Banality is low enough on the changelings case

[rare swallow]

In the case of changeling, no, because it'd depend on the person's banality

Yeah

[candid shadow]

What’s banality?

[rare swallow]

A measure of how uncreative, boring, etc someone is

Kinda

[orchid void]

Core mechanic for Changelings- how Un-Faerie a person or place is

[rare swallow]

Highly banal people are the kinds to crush childrens' dreams and all that

[candid shadow]

Your inability to have whimsy in your life protects you from Fey trickery

Amazing

[rare swallow]

Not only that but you become directly and actively harmful to them lol

[candid shadow]

A changeling walks in on a shareholders meeting and fucking explodes

[rare swallow]

Like highly banal people actually have a list of passive powers it's great

[orchid void]

The moon landings were meant as a killing blow against Dreams by the Technocracy that backfired by showing the beauty of Beyond

[candid shadow]

Wait so the moon landings wasn’t faked in WOD, but they were orchestrated by the tech mages to murder Fey?

[orchid void]

Yes

[candid shadow]

This setting rules

[rare swallow]

And instead it actually kinda revived fae society as a whole

Lol

[orchid void]

And it backfired

[rare swallow]

Because the dreams were so strong they created some portals back to Arcadia for a while that spewed a bunch of fairies and dreams and chimera back into the banal world

[candid shadow]

Holy shit

[rare swallow]

However 9/11 also did something, it brought nightmare fae back

Which

Yeah

WoD being WoD

[candid shadow]

To be fair I’d believe that

There’s a very visible shift in the mindset of the average American before and after 9/11

[mighty zephyr]

I literlaly cannot imagine how anyone thinking going to the moon would make people depressed

[rare swallow]

I really want to run Changeling some day but I'm kinda bad at running the Storyteller system tbh

[candid shadow]

They thought the infinite void would be existential and not rad as fuck

[candid shadow]

Why?

[rare swallow]

Idk it's definitely a more plot focused system to run and I'm not much of an overarching plot creator

[mighty zephyr]

Fuck the Technocracy is so goddamn boring

OWoD is actually the worst

when it comes to Mage favortism

[rare swallow]

The technocracy is the weirdest villain ever, it's both hilarious and stupid as fuck

Awakening definitely got a much stronger villain for mages lol

[candid shadow]

What’s the NWOD mage villain?

[rare swallow]

The Exarchs, they're mages that cheated awakening and are now trying to make sure no one can awaken, basically

[candid shadow]

Ahh right yah

I remember them

[candid shadow]

Me when paper

[orchid void]

The Technocracy's logic was "No, we will simply Murder the Fey Courts of the Moon, sealing off the realm of dreams forever, by showing everyone that its Just A Lifeless Rock. There Is Nothing Else."

You know that whole neolibral chant of "Better things aren't possible."

That. That was the Technocracy's Plan

[versed zodiac]

WoD5 seems to be putting the Technocracy in its place as a pretty extensive but secretive and hands-off conspiracy

The 2nd Inquisition book for V5e heavily implies that they’re out there getting their fingers in the 2I pie but the Technocracy influence is limited to a few black sites and the limited amounts of X-tech getting circulated around

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah it's all implication yet but I swear to god

I am going to have to buy body armor for M5's release

[versed zodiac]

Look if they’re sensible M5e will scale the technocracy back

Come up with some Thing that scrongled the shit out of them

[mighty zephyr]

have you met a mage fan

[versed zodiac]

I said if they’re sensible

Also like

The Mage fans are in the building here you know

[velvet sparrow]

They already did that before tbh

[acoustic plaza]

Hey! I’m right here y’know!

[short notch]

.>

I mean the first thing M5 is going to have to do is find a way to balance "anything is possible" with rules that don't spiral wildly out of control

[rare swallow]

Tbh all the splats have weirdly dedicated fans

That'll scream at anything 5e that comes out

[short notch]

There are two things hardcore franchise fans hate above all else: not getting new content, and getting new content

[acoustic plaza]

I think the best way to make M5 is making it a weird Psychadelic drug trip like Changeling

[rare swallow]

They want absolutely 0 changes to their metaplot while still getting new content.
The WoD metaplot is probably my least liked aspect of it. It's great to read about and laugh at the absolute edgy 90's absurdity, but playing a game with so much metaplot sucks

[short notch]

Yeah like, I'm sure there's legit criticisms to be made about 5e, but the amount that just comes to "it's different and that's unforgivable" gets tiring

But I've also never really understood why people get so up in arms about TTRPG lore--isn't the whole appeal of TTRPGs that you can pick and choose and even outright rewrite the lore at your table if you want?

[rare swallow]

shrug I don't understand either, I've played in some games where the STs insist in doing namedrops and adding named characters into even though it has 0 relevance to any character

[mighty zephyr]

So like that's the thing and it comes from a few tabletop games

WoD, Shadowrun, Battletech

the late 90s-early 2000s era

where tabletop games REVOLVED around their NPCs doing shit and players didn't actually matter

[rare swallow]

Yeah, 90's TTRPGs kinda created the idea of "your GM/DM/Referee is a Storyteller here to tell plot at you and you watch"

[short notch]

Maybe I'm just a product of my time; I didn't pick up TTRPGs as a hobby until the late 00s - early 10s

[rare swallow]

Nowadays the popular approach is "we're telling a story together at the table"

[rare swallow]

I only started in the late 2010's lol, I just like reading up on the history

[short notch]

Yeah for sure!

[mighty zephyr]

But yeah specifically for Mage there is a certain like

Powerscaler fanbase and people so deeply engrained in the minutae and esoterica of the bombastic urban fantasy style high-level adventuring that I know they aren't gonna go for

I've really gotten into the guts of this discussion

and I know that M5 is going to bring about horrifically toxic discourse

[short notch]

[rare swallow]

The only mage players I've seen in the wild or directly played WoD with were just in for the absolute power fantasy of mage than the desire to actually RP mages and the stuff like tools and their beliefs (forgot the actual name for it)

[orchid void]

remembering when awakening came out and an Apoc fan told me mages don’t “deserve” Gnosis

[mighty zephyr]

what does this mean

[orchid void]

i still don’t know

[versed zodiac]

Scrimblo defenders be like

[orchid void]

but Apoc used Gnosis as the powerstat so i think it was that???

[velvet sparrow]

What the fuck?

[versed zodiac]

Their scrimblo is werewolves

Scrimblo defence is “you can’t have it it’s my scrimblo’s special toy”

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah it did.

Gnosis was the Wolf Power/Spellcasting Stat

[versed zodiac]

More Gnosis = more werewolf

Mages are not werewolves

QED

[short notch]

More gnosis more problems

[versed zodiac]

A wolf without the gnosis is lost

[short notch]

Less gnosis even more problems

It's just problems all around

[versed zodiac]

But that same wolf may become lost in the sauce gnosis

[short notch]

They gnow too much

[versed zodiac]

Gnowledge only goes gnoes in one direction

Once you gnow there is no ungnowing

[rare swallow]

It is weird that Gnosis isn't a mage thing in oWoD

[mighty zephyr]

Apocalypse was VERY Greek

for some reason

[rare swallow]

huh

I guess in some ways the WoD werewolves are more connected to greek shapeshifters because iirc it was stuff related to gods back then, but that's still such a weird thematic stretch lol

[clear delta]

Ome tribe worshipped gorgons

[mighty zephyr]

Black Furies

[rare swallow]

Ah yes terf tribe

[short quiver]

The thing is, by the time Mage came out Werewolf had already been made & the name was taken.
It does make so much more sense as the Mage stat, which is why they did it that way in nWoD

[rare swallow]

yeah

[short quiver]

& IDK that it was really "related" to gods as such
Except for the one dude who got turned into a wolf by the gods for... eating people? Kinslaying? Something.

[rare swallow]

Any time that "person shapeshifts into wolf" comes up in greek mythology, it was some brand of punishment from the gods iirc

[clear delta]

Okay so. World as it is now is a fucked up prison tgat incentivizes our worse social aspect, letting tyranny reign. Tge exarchs are the god-symbols of tyranny that warped tge universe, and are believed to be mages who ascended.
The seers of the throne saw this, and decided to join the winning side. They're prisoners of this world like us, but the rewards for their successful servitude are great.
They seek the signs of their gods to divine their will, thus the name. The higher ranked ones have a channel in their souls that let them receive dreams from their gods, but are much more under their gaze now. They also gain extra powers

[orchid void]

oh i know this one, I think it was uh Lycaon?

[clear delta]

I love the seers because they're an example of realistic villains that don't jave a point, they're awful and profit off the world sucking, and fight attempts to improve it

[short quiver]

The Seers are a lot like the Technocracy in scope and effect, but they're a lot less sympathetic, IMO
The Technocracy can at least say that "we're creating a world where causes and effects are consistent and predictable, physics and medicine work the same way for everyone, and nothing will ever dare to go bump in the night again, and we will go to any lengths to see this happen."
The Seers are just "the object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."

[short quiver]

Yeah, that's the dude.
He gets brought up as an early example of a werewolf pretty regularly, but it wasn't like he got to change back and forth, he just pissed off Zeus and got turned into an animal.

[orchid void]

yeah i dug him up because sometimes you gotta remember a Wolf is a kind of Boogeyman for a long long time

[rare swallow]

He pissed off Zeus specifically by killing and cooking his own son iirc, which just wow

[supple quail]

now that i think about it, i can totally see a technocracy cell running into godmachine stuff and either going 'absolutely fucking not' or 'oh so god is real where do we sign up'

[orchid void]

well, different settings

pretty sure every seer who touched a God-Machine would claim its Evidence Of The Exarchs and then start fighting over Infrastructure

[clear delta]

If the supernal is the code of reality, then the god machine could very well be partially part of the exarchs, as it forms part of society.

As tge exarchs twitch, markets change and politicians talk. As the god-machine finds problems and solve them, the exarchs feel passing itches

[supple quail]

true but a part of why i find WoD and CoD so cool is the opportunity for things colliding, even if it's not as practical in game

[clear delta]

As god-machine has expired food, the exarches feel sick

I can't remember the posts well.

[short notch]

I think I mentioned earlier but I have a rough CoD campaign concept involving a three-way war between the Exarchs/Seers, the God-Machine, and a loose coalition of Mages, Demons, and Deviants

With the God-Machine being interpreted as a Seer project that went out of control

[heady kestrel]

Banisher type statement/j

[heady kestrel]

In Demon its mentioned that the Seers sometimes collaborate with angels when things happen to overlap

[candid shadow]

In hunter 5e, even if you’re not imbued you still start out more skilled at your job then the average person right?

Because I’m thinking of making a sorta former cleaner for a mob who perked up to the fact that their boss was a vampire

[mighty zephyr]

The average person has a dicepool of 3 or 4

if you have any higher dots then yes

[candid shadow]

Ah ok

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCkojsX_64E

Just thinking of the new Galestalker tribe just snapping up on someone with this

like West Side Story style

[grave gulch]

okay

folks help me out with fleshing out an idea

i was thinking of writing a stalker-like wod game

at first i was thinking of making this a werewolf game

nuclear distaster happened, there are now few pockets of nature that remain untainted by radiation and the remaining tribes are desperate trying to protect them

this would probably mean that the wyrm has won as well

[mighty zephyr]

Well do you want Stalker as in "Just the Zone" or The Entire World is Stalker

[grave gulch]

i feel like going for a zone like place would be easier to manage

[mighty zephyr]

It'd be better to localize with a system like wod imo

[grave gulch]

i shall go with that then!

[mighty zephyr]

You could 1000% be like

"Yeah but there's been no communication with the outside world so uh"

"Here's hoping everyone's okay"

[grave gulch]

yeh yeh

i dont need to worry much about any other big groups either since this is an isolated area

sure there could be some big cheese vamp here, but they are as isolated as everyone else here now

[versed zodiac]

gauntlet deepfried, can't leave the fuckin' area

[orchid void]

now I get to gear my magistos up for a delicious bit of psychonautery

[short quiver]

nice!

[orchid void]

One of the other players needs to do some Orienos diving

[short quiver]

Astral trips are great.
Right from the jump, where everyone gets to lay down their characters' own self-image.

[orchid void]

Lucy has a Velvet Room :3

[clear delta]

What does she use it for?

[grave gulch]

What's a velvet room?

[clear delta]

Persona series reference

[grave gulch]

oh..dont know much about persona

[clear delta]

Special place where human looking beings help guide you

And manage your personas

They offer you fusion services, for example

Personas are summons

The beings there are mysterious, and have a strong connection to the human soul. They are in service of Philemon, who only pops up in persona 1 and 2. He is a representation of mankind'a drive for growth and improvement

[orchid void]

Interrogation of her Goetia. It’s a Velvet Room in the same way the Black Lodge is. It’s a place where demons are called to give testimony :3

[clear delta]

Ah, cool

[short quiver]

My one group never did figure out my extended bit where my FC anarchist Mastigos' Oreinos would often feature a topless French punk girl with big green hair spikes playing with a lighter and being very mean to him.

||She was, of course, his conception of Liberty.||

[grave gulch]

Questiom

question

How would vamps and werewolves handle radiation?

I would ask about other splats but wizards do wizardry, hunters are humans and ghosts are fucking dead

I mean vamps are also fucking dead

But they do have a physical body

[supple quail]

depends on how much i imagine, i expect risk of cancer and stuff isn’t an issue for vampires so it’d have to be enough to damage cellular integrity

[chilly vault]

That said vamps get weird as they age so it wouldn't be out of the question for them to get weird faster

[supple quail]

how so?

like in how they look different

[grave gulch]

ya think it could damage their vitae in this case?

[heady kestrel]

I think in Demon The Descent its implied they might be more resistant to it

Because during the Bronze Age the god machine had a big project where it started using vampires for manual labor because they didn’t die as easy

[chilly vault]

They start to diverge from their original forms and mutate, for instance there’s a very ancient vamp that looks kind of like a hutt described here https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/60484/Night-Horrors-Immortal-Sinners

[clear delta]

I hear cofd 2e has werewolves just regenerate fast enough to survive an exposed reactor, from how the rules work.

[supple quail]

oh neat

[supple quail]

the god machine is such a cool fucked up eldritch god

maybe my favourite bit of CoD and WoD combined honestly

[heady kestrel]

The God Machine has its own vampire group. It forces them to go on ARG adventurers or die from radio sickness

Holy engineers my beloved

[midnight grotto]

I'm not familiar with what the CofD rules for radiation are (I know 1E had them on account of the Zeka Prometheans) but the thing about werewolves in Rahu form is that they regenerate all non-aggravated damage on their turn. Granted, I feel like radiation seems like an excellent source of aggravated damage, so idk.

I'm sure there are also ways to boost that regen but I don't know off the top of my head. Worth noting that using the Rahu form when not actively murderizing someone is difficult and may result in said woof going berserk.

[heady kestrel]

I think hard radiation just deals a ludicrous amount of lethal damage

Like electricity throwing around 9-10 bludgeoning casually

Mage who is Obsessed with the rapt

[clear delta]

Think it's gauru

[grave gulch]

also radiation can straight up burn you right?

[chilly vault]

Yes

See also: the sun

[supple quail]

oh fun fact dark lightning is a thing and is incredibly radioactive

However, researchers have discovered that under the right conditions, the process of creating regular lightning can also produce x-rays and even gamma rays that are ejected into the atmosphere. The radiation in these invisible blasts can carry a million times as much energy as the radiation in visible lightning. Still, that energy dissipates quickly in all directions rather than remaining in a lightning bolt.

Scientists call this dark lightning, and it is invisible to the human eye. Unlike regular lightning, though, people struck by dark lightning - most likely in an aeroplane - would not get hurt. However, they may instantly receive the maximum safe lifetime dose of ionising radiation – the kind that wreaks havoc on the human body.

However, there is approximately only one dark lightning occurrence for every thousand visible flashes, and since pilots do their utmost to avoid thunderstorms, the risk of injury is quite limited. It remains unclear whether anyone has ever been hit by dark lightning.

[versed zodiac]

Huh, I wonder what those conditions are

[supple quail]

we don't know atm afaik, on the basis that it's incredibly rare and also in storm clouds which aren't easy to measure

but i'm also not a climate scientist so am not fully sure on everything

oh also i have developed a Need to play MTA one day

luckily one of my friends can gm for it but it's exam season and he also might not want to over the summer but we shall see

i wanna play a life mage and do shenanigans with neuroscience

[grave gulch]

MTA?

Oh mage

[supple quail]

e.g re-encoding someone's head direction cells so they get disoriented just by having a head that faces a direction

yeah

[clear delta]

Which mage

[supple quail]

i don't really know the difference between the two system wise

[grave gulch]

if i were a mage i would make myself a bunch of ice cream

[supple quail]

i've never played any WoD games i'm just in the thread cause i like the lore

[grave gulch]

The Lore is awesome

Now i gotta think of a radiation ghost

[midnight grotto]

Oh you're right

[midnight grotto]

The lore is also different between them

though they can both do fucked up magic

[heady kestrel]

Old Mage is Collective Unconscious stuff
New Mage is Platonic Concepts stuff

[supple quail]

ahhhh ok

i guess i prefer new mage then on that basis because i find platonic concepts really interesting in fantasy and sci fi stuff

[short quiver]

Yeah, Awakening really has the main characters as Magi. They've achieved a connection to the higher Truth, and they use this enlightenment for power.
In Ascension, you might think of yourself as a kind of wizard, but the truth is that reality is achieved by consensus and if your worldview means you can do magick then magick works for you, but people who know magic is fake can make you stop.

[clear delta]

In new mage you got hooked to the platonic code of reality

[orchid void]

No, it’s much simpler

You glimpsed Sophia

[clear delta]

Either way. You now see the underlying Truth of things through mage sight

[versed zodiac]

new Mage does the eldritch maddening truth thing

[clear delta]

Each mage uses one of five main "lenses", the five supernal worlds

[versed zodiac]

like, uh, how does this go again?

[clear delta]

Each better at some truths than others

Defining which of five Paths they walk

Each mage pursues truth, exploring Mysteries they find

[versed zodiac]

Seeing a circuit board is not what drives you, the ant, insane from the knowledge of godlike humans. The maddening Truth is when, for a moment, the circuit board is shown to you as a human understands it - you understand the flowing of electrons and the logic gates, you see with human eyes and understand in terms of human concepts - and then you are an ant again, echoes of TRUTH left in your mind that you no longer have the faculties to comprehend.

That is madness. That is what being a Mage is like.

[high hornet]

Is this also Vampire The Masquerade stuff or is that somewhere else?

[versed zodiac]

not a ton of VtM chatter in here usually but this is the right place for it

[high hornet]

I am doing my best

[versed zodiac]

I'm running a VtM campaign right now actually, just no one seems interested in chatting about it

[high hornet]

Ohh what's your campaign about?

[versed zodiac]

Sect war

Players are a Camarilla vehme coterie in Ottawa, basically it's their first few weeks on the job as vampire cops

unfortunately the Sabbat have come from Montreal to throw down

Last session was the declaration of war, Sabbat agents showed up and staged a terrorist attack on a hotel owned by a prominent autarkis information dealer and beheaded him in front of Anarch and Camarilla alike to make it clear that they'll tolerate no one and nothing getting in their way

[orchid void]

Oh ho ho

A proper crusade with Frenchmen and everything

[versed zodiac]

indeed

[high hornet]

Oh boy oh boy

[versed zodiac]

Their leader is a funny guy, real name Corpse Flowers but goes by any moniker with the initials C.F. to mess with people trying to intercept Sabbat communications

I got to do a fun speech that opened with "Aha, my timing was right within 7 second precision. The vehme are here."

C.F's character gimmick is statistics and calculation, he does napkin-back math for anything he isn't factually certain of

[high hornet]

in the game that I will hopefully be picking up again soon we basically waived our rights to decide which clan we'll wind up in and our generation and background points for being able to put those points into our skills and such. We actually roleplayed out the first game pre-embrace. Apparently there was a good chance we would have wound up a shovelheads after Sabbat raid on the area meant the Sabbat needed new fresh meat. But it didn't quite go that way.

[versed zodiac]

Lucky, lucky

Fledgling campaign as shovelheads would be rough

None humanity and none sect is hard to, uh, survive

[high hornet]

I was working the bar and the other guy was in the security room, due to an insanely lucky perception roll I actually managed to stop the Sabbat attack before it began. My buddy in the security room almost had a Tzimisce crawl through the vents and into the room with him. That would not have been a good time for them.

[versed zodiac]

You had to defend a bar against the Sword of Caine as mortals?

That’s a hell of a situation

[high hornet]

We were on a casino riverbarge going up the New Orleans rivers, a good place for the Camarilla to hold a secretive auction. The Sabbat decided to jump it, and because it's a place run by a vampire they had a few defenses and a security team.
We both wound up embraced by the Camarilla in the end, due to shenanigans, but the attack on the riverbarge only got so far, because I called in spotting something odd in the water, and the guy in security managed a lucky shot on the creature in the vents.

[versed zodiac]

Damn

Those Sabbat must be red in the face

Imagine shanking the easiest armed blag of all time because you got got by the kine help

Just walk into the sun it’s over for you

[high hornet]

Oh yeah we were both pretty much embraced because we had proven ourselves to be handy, some magical fuckery on my end, and because we were number 1 on the sabbat shit lists after managing to foil their plans.

The DM said that we could have refused the embrace, we were asked if we wanted to accept it, and we both did. If we refused we would have gone home and been found by the Sabbat and life would not have been good.

[versed zodiac]

I’m very excited to start running the Ottawa Sect War in earnest

Because now C.F. and his pack, the Entombers, are going to get up to some real shit

[high hornet]

Any of the characters local or are they all from out of town?

[versed zodiac]

Like ghost-bombing Elysium

Mostly locals

The Sabbat are largely from Montreal but they picked up a few hangers-on along the way, one of whom is currently staked lying on the cold hard floor in a containment cell in the players’ haven

But yeah while the two showpersons of the Entombers staged a public execution the remainder have been capturing unquiet spirits and the next story beat will be “so yeah, Elysium’s haunted as fuck now, we don’t have a central base of operations anymore”

[high hornet]

Heck

Do they have a local prince in the area? How likely are the sabbat going to try and kill them?

[versed zodiac]

There is a Prince and I’m going to have the attempted assassination play out during a session for sure

I’m rolling with the idea that Canada is vampire central while the Second Inquisition focuses on the USA, so taking out the Prince of the capital city is kind of a big step

But the Entombers aren’t really on that Camarilla solidarity shit

In CF’s opinion, things would be much better if every major Canadian city was a Sabbat hotbed like Toronto and Montreal are

[high hornet]

Who's the group of players? What clans are they in?

[versed zodiac]

Got a young Banu Haqim assassin just trying to figure shit out, an washed up rock star turned Toreador starlet, and a Tremere magus who’s struggling with the change in academic focus from bookkeeping and library sciences to blood magic

The rock star Toreador is the only one with money and social skills and is the MVP for this

[high hornet]

haha, you always need one

So in this current setting there's a couple of clan adjustments from my DM os storyteller or whatever you call them

and basically, I'm antribu LaSombra. I think that's the term. effectively, LaSombra not in the Sabbat

[versed zodiac]

Yeah, that’s about correct

Lasombra antitribu are much more common in the V5 setting than previously

[high hornet]

the other dude is a Toreador

And our backgrounds make is a bit odd, where they're a law student Toreador and I'm a LaSombra Chef

nightfood

[versed zodiac]

Antitribu in general are more common in V5 because Shit Got Worse and it’s harder to turn your nose up at useful kindred who want in on whatever political agenda you represent

Also, Clans Tremere and Ravnos exploded

[high hornet]

What a coincidence
in our game Clan Giovanni and Ravnos exploded
Then in game we accidentally caused Tremere to explode

well, "accidentally", more than we were used to do it without knowing about it

[versed zodiac]

Lmao

You guys were responsible for the Pyramid’s collapse in your game?

[high hornet]

So that auction was about some kind of cup that we only learned later could be used to sever blood ties if it was fueled and channeled. It was meant to be that we started low to middling and one of us would resonate with the cup at one point and oh hey suddenly this thing is happening.
So my DM was not expecting my character to roll 3 10's and a 9 upon first seeing this cup, immediately attuning to it. Only one person noticed that this happened, and he was the LaSombra who embraced me.
Bad news for me: my generation might be a little... low.
So I'm a walking bag of protein powder

[versed zodiac]

Hey

Low generation is good

[high hornet]

The Cup could sever bloodties, my sire and some others had gotten some blood from the Tremere chantry, and we used the cup to just... sever all blood ties. Which suddenly meant that half the chantry was setting itself on fire because vampires suddenly got free from their bonds.

[versed zodiac]

Don’t worry about the Consequences

[high hornet]

It's also good for people wanting to eat my soul

[versed zodiac]

Oh you blew up your local chantry

Naughty

[high hornet]

Okay when I say "low", give me a number you think is "low generation"

Ahhh it was more than the local one

[versed zodiac]

Like 6 or 7

[high hornet]

yeah I'm 7

[versed zodiac]

That’s pretty swole

Risky, but swole

[mighty zephyr]

"Sabbat have come from Montreal" is the funniest Canadian bit you could've done with that

[high hornet]

They are investing hard into our education and learning so we don't just head straight out and get our throats bitten off

[versed zodiac]

I’m so excited for one of them to drag out the most egregious Quebecois drawl

That or they won’t speak English at all and if the players try to talk to them they’ll bust out a “En Francais s’il vous plait”

[high hornet]

Bricks

just throw endless bricks

[grave gulch]

i like brick throwing

[high hornet]

I brought it up in tabletop a while ago but I actually wound up making the DM go a bit mad since I asked how throwing items worked and...

yeah the rules we were using had very dumb throwing rules

So he had to make them again himself

Sometimes I wonder if someone checked these rules before they got put in the book

[orchid void]

It’s a game written by theater nerds they just wrote numbers

Adoring both the stories from here

[high hornet]

We did a little adjustment and now my character should be able to huck a knife like 45 meters, but only because he has decent athletics.

The idea we came up with is you always use your strength and potence for distance, and then with every point in athletics you increase what number you multiply it by. So Str x 5 for baseline, then if you have one point in athletics it's Str x 7, two points is Str x 9, continues in increments of 2 upwards

That's just distance though you still do need to hit with the attack

[high hornet]

It's honestly kinda funny that we're both being described as like the new super soldiers on the streets, because wow we're low generation and have had a ton of investment in us. But also we're complete newbies with barely a head on our shoulders between us, so we're not even the B team, or the C team. We're the "D's get degrees" team from the people who are looking after us. We're literally showing up to places because it would be rude for the Moonrise Estate to ignore social necessities, but everyone else is busy.

Old house and some personal issues with slavery (the Toreador's sire was a slave on a plantation, my LaSombra sire was a slave in the Gladiator pits) means they don't have a ton of ghouls around the place to handle shit for them.

So our job is effectively the "well at least you showed up" squad

nothing will go wrong there

[mighty zephyr]

I forget what the rules for throwing in VtR are

[high hornet]

The ones we're using, not good

I hope they're updated

Also it's hilarious cause there's a strength chart right next to this stuff and six dots in strength, so five strength and one potence, it labels as "throw a motorcycle"

[high hornet]

Also it's been revealed that the reason that my character got a free specialty in "jump scare" for stealth is that as a LaSombra he's actually kinda forgotten that shadows aren't entirely see through and he keeps walking around in the pure dark not understanding why people are surprised when he talks to them.