World of Darkness

[viscid talon]

and

im struggling to make a character :/

im not even really sure where to begin.

I mean, I think I have a general idea of how things work as far as like, magic and such

and how awakenings work

I guess maybe it's not so much that I need help understanding as it is that I need help coming up with a character idea. Is that something I can do here?

[mighty zephyr]

Yep!

You'd be like the third person doing so in the last month

Sudden influx of Mage games it seems

So to start!

What kind of characters do you usually play?

Is there any underlying traits that you usually find yourself giving your characters?

[viscid talon]

uh

I guess I like kinda puckish rogue type characters

like

chaotic-good-to-neutral type beat

I think it's cool when characters are anti-establishment

I actually had two ideas previously but neither is working out now

One was an Acanthus who, in their sleeping life, was a con artist / bogus fortune teller. One day, a reading they performed on themself turned out to really happen... and then the same happened the following day, and then the day after that. That started their awakening.

The other was an Obrimos who worked as a 'clean-up crew' for criminals, which is a fancy way of saying that they were paid money to do arson on buildings used for drug trafficking and production. They got really good at reducing structures to ash and ember, but when a freak accident led them to get trapped in one of their own fires, they saw a glimpse of the divine amid the blaze, blacked out, and woke up in an unfamiliar place...

The first concept fell apart for me cause I felt like it lent itself too well to being kinda mean-spirited, and I sometimes have difficulty not being cruel when I play asshole characters :(. The second one fell apart because I realized that I was pigeon-holing myself into being mainly a fire-based forces user, but I think I want to explore other avenues of magic more than just 'setting things on fire with my mind'

[mighty zephyr]

I mean with the latter one you uh

Just don't have to cast fire all the time

The Divine Flame can easily be more Prime than Forces and Forces is, imo, the second most completely utterly versatile Arcana in the game after Spirit.

[versed zodiac]

if you got Forces you got like

everything

not all buildings can burn, and Forces gives you infinite routes towards dissembling stuff

[clear delta]

You can just say divine flame is a single manifestation the source of all energy

[somber scarab]

If you want a less mean version of the former, you could give them kinda a "they give me a few bucks, I put on a good show, it's basically harmless" mindset with the fortune-telling

[versed zodiac]

Electricity, fire, gravity, heat, kinetic energy, light, magnetism, nuclear radiation, sound, physics, sunlight (note that sunlight is different from regular light), weather.

like this is

this is a lot

Magnetism and nuclear radiation means you can just say "I don't vibe with this rock" and decay it on the atomic level

[mighty zephyr]

The Divine Flame could literally be the fucking Big Bang

[viscid talon]

I mean I know that logically and mechanically

[mighty zephyr]

maybe you saw the moment Thermodynamics started existing

[versed zodiac]

Send that shit back to the alpha-state of the beginning of the universe my guy

[viscid talon]

but emotionally in my mind the idea has already kinda burnt out

[versed zodiac]

I mean yeah part of us saying stuff is trying to reignite the fire for you

[viscid talon]

i have this issue where if i start to peel back the onion skin of an idea I can't put it back together again

i think i just

wanna make an acanthus

but I would like an angle that isn't '

based on deception i guess.

but idk what that concept would be.

[mighty zephyr]

Well think about the themes of the Path and the Arcana you'd end up with and how that plays into it

[versed zodiac]

I mean, Fate and Time is also a mentoring/tutelary thing

[mighty zephyr]

You're a Timetravelling Soothsayer

[versed zodiac]

you could just as easily lean into the idea that your character is here to tell people how to do shit right the first time, having seen it go awry already

[viscid talon]

gghh

[versed zodiac]

as you could have them be hardcore into lying

[viscid talon]

uh

maybe not then.

im not sure I've got the mind for that concept.

:(

i might drop out of the game I'm in at this point. I've turned it into such a chore.

[mighty zephyr]

Just don't hit your head against a wall for it tbh

[viscid talon]

i think im just not built for this kinda thing.

[mighty zephyr]

Go outside and have a walk, take a shower, have a meal, just don't think about it for a bit and come back later.

[versed zodiac]

I mean, what it sounds like is that you're trying to make a Perfect Character that's pristine and glorious in your headspace

[viscid talon]

i mean i wasn't even very good at dnd 5e, idk why i thought i would be able to understand a WoD system

[clear delta]

Acanthus are described knowing when to pop in a situation to affect the way thing are going, then peace out.

[versed zodiac]

WoD's less of a pain in the ass than D&D 5e don't @ me

anyways my advice is to just make whatever seems intriguing rather than worrying about it being, like, ideal or Great Writing

[viscid talon]

i might not be a good fit for playing acanthus then

im kinda clueless.

[versed zodiac]

especially because the best thing you can do to make a good character that fits in well and works for your story is to collaborate with your storyteller and leave some things hazy and not-set-in-stone so that it can come together

[viscid talon]

it is difficult to make a character in a game where you're supposed to be great, cause i don't have any experience in that.

dnd lets you play, like, a little goblin rat person and that's easy for me

[versed zodiac]

wdym "you're supposed to be great", WoD characters are fuckups by default

[viscid talon]

i mean like

having the supernatural ability to detect (thing)

or whatever

idk.

uh

im sorry for bothering you all. i shouldn't have said anything.

sorry.

[mighty zephyr]

Friend I think you're just letting anxiety get to you over this, which is perfectly understandable but you're not bothering us.

[versed zodiac]

I mean firstly you aren't bothering us coming in here lets us talk about things we're specifically here to talk about and relish doing so

you will never find RPG fans more eager to yap your ears off

secondly I guarantee that being anxious like this means you're already further along towards creating a kickass player character than most people

You've got the most important thing, which is caring that you make a cool character, already

Everything else is secondary and negotiable

[clear delta]

Yeah. Awakening mages are weirdo scholars obsessed with specific topics

[versed zodiac]

goblin rat person isn't just a valid mage

it might be the only valid mage actually

[clear delta]

Acanthus undertands magic through choice and consequence, and have an affinity for predictiom, causality and arranged events. So an acanthus can be a weirdo obsessed with luck or temporal anomalies. Or someone who deeply believes im freedom obsessed with how people's choices affect their future.
Obrimos understand through power and command, and have an affinity for the raw power that drives everything. The energy in storms, the ideals burning within people. Obsessing over how radio and tv hosts, and bloggers, affect ideals through the signals is possible. Just a weird corkboard of reality shows and youtubers, full "pepe silva"

[versed zodiac]

Obrimos are powerfully conspiracy theory charged mages

[clear delta]

Newbie mages are found by just dangling mysteries to lure them

[versed zodiac]

they have that energy

[mighty zephyr]

I think they skedaddled unfortunately

[versed zodiac]

"you still believe in the moon?" is an Obrimos take

[clear delta]

Fuck

[clear delta]

Funny thing about mages. A dev described them as scholars who'd fight due to Poe's orangutan. And they're always armed

[rare swallow]

I'm still kinda stuck a bit regarding my choice of orders… adamantine arrow fits the general vibes of the character, but the game really seems to have a thing for them doing "martial arts magic" and I'm not really super for that…

I like the idea of guardian and protector, but the warrior and martial arts magic stuff just doesn't hit for me as a thematic thing that calls to me

Like I feel like a big part of MtAw is visualising your character's magic and I can't really do it as it is rn… hmmm

[mighty zephyr]

There's other ways to "fight" and you only lose out on a merit if you don't go that route

of punching people with your magic

The only thing heretical to the Arrow is pacifism

Any other instrument of violence is fair game

[clear delta]

Mean girls Arrow members

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQOoTX1Nxx8

Local Adamantine Cabal

[grave gulch]

i just figured out how a powerful vamp could have a wizard on his paycheck

[velvet sparrow]

Money?

[grave gulch]

some wizards like to use vitae in their experiments

the vamp book says so

[mighty zephyr]

One of my OWoD characters is a Mage on Vampire-payroll

[grave gulch]

i remember you mentioning their reasoning behind it all

but i forgot could u say it again?

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah he's a fanatic who needs someone to pay for rent and food so he just works for a coterie of Clan Hecata

to destroy the gauntlet

[grave gulch]

neat neat

[mighty zephyr]

If anyone is playing or running Changeling

please play Home Safety Hotline

[clear delta]

?

[mighty zephyr]

It's so fucking good and the less you know about the contents the better but the idea is that you are a 90s-era help line for homeowners

[velvet sparrow]

Oh

The game

[mighty zephyr]

yeah

[orchid void]

you know what i always think is helpful for making Mage characters?

Make a kind of character who belongs in Mystery Fiction

Mages are Detectives

They're Obsessive, Prideful, and very Human in the ways they warp around those things despite being semi-enlightened

A detective story, a crime-thriller, these are the kinds of... orchestration? that characters in Mage always play by in my head

Once you've got a concept, the easiest next step I find is Obsessions

What Kind Of Mysteries Are Catnip

[versed zodiac]

Erika Furudo could be a Mage

[short quiver]

Down these mean teachings of enlightened Truth a man must walk who is not mean.

[queen heron]

The chart hurts it a tad imo

its versatile but the book examples are kinda limited

doesn't nearly touch on the metaphysical stuff as Space does, even if they're both 'gross' arcana

[queen heron]

my first mages were very much like this lmao

I started leaning more into researchers than detectives over time though

or at least the weird academics

the kind who get giddy over identifying pottery shards and human bone fragments for 6 hours straight in a muddy field

the type to start long-running knife fights about random shit and semantics

very Human

[midnight grotto]

I really want to run Mage Noir someday

[patent talon]

Saaaaaame

[midnight grotto]

I have a pretty solid idea in mind for 1945 Chicago

[rare swallow]

Oooh

Sounds really cool

[grave gulch]

[fair jungle]

Fox

[grave gulch]

yes

vampire is weird

this game feels a tad more depressing in it's vibe with the whole struggle of your fading humanity thing and the beast

i see that as an interesting thing tho

i would hate being a vamp and i find it interesting that this is actually something recently embraced peeps struggle with

[fair jungle]

Yeah, like, in a LaSombra story she starts as her human self but as the story goes on you can actually see her falling in the LaSombra mindset.
Hell in the true ending of her visual novel she ||murders her ex-girlfriend|| to leave no weakness behind after showing everyone's dirt in front of a Masquerade higher up

[grave gulch]

[fair jungle]

Also yeah apparently there is a kind of Camarilla "Overseer" that goes to check on the prince.
The overseer still have to do what the Prince says but that's a formality.

And you don't become one
You are born as one, the moment you were born the Caramilla is training you from the shadows and making sure you evolve into what they want, just to embrace you when you are old and ready to die your natural life.

[grave gulch]

grandpa vamp

[heady kestrel]

Holy shit the way the Doors system is phrased is so sleazy in mage the awakening

Like this feels more slimy than extended persuasion in TTT

[clear delta]

Oh?

Can you describe. Don't have the book on right now

[fair jungle]

Literally

[grave gulch]

omg it wax

[heady kestrel]

Uses “victim” to describe the target
Explicitly says it is one sided
Also includes this bit

“Social maneuvering fails when the victim no longer trusts the persuading character. This can happen when the player rolls a dramatic failure on an attempt to open a Door, though the player takes a Beat as usual. **Otherwise, the victim has to realize that she’s been lied to and manipulated — not just that the persuading character was trying to talk her into something, but that he’s only ever used her for that goal and doesn’t care about anything else. **Finally, the attempt fails if the impression level reaches “hostile” and remains there for a week.”

[clear delta]

Yo

Brazilian brother, fellow fan of darkness

[grave gulch]

indeed!

[fair jungle]

Imagine being embraced when old
Must sucks

[grave gulch]

it probably does yeah

[fair jungle]

He's a Primogen, it's the correct name of the rank

He needs a Ghoul to talk for him cuz his throat is fucked :V

[heady kestrel]

You take advantage of vices
Have to fight against the persons virtues

You can use hard blackmail

[clear delta]

Wizards! No sense of right and wrong!

[grave gulch]

i control reality i decide what's right

i mean

yeah wizards

[heady kestrel]

I am pretty sure this is the doors system in general but I don’t remember it being so…
That

Like I’m down

But holy shit

[clear delta]

Well, mages will certainly use it like that.
Need to emphasize. For all the cosmic truths. Mages are bastard cultivators

[rare swallow]

When all you see are cosmic truths, the sleepers around you become little more than obstacles to surpass from time to time is definitely a mentality that's prevalent with mages, I imagine :p

[grave gulch]

the only cosmic truth that there is

is that im cool

[clear delta]

Back on my ffxvi idea. High rank beings could pick mortals as important chess pieces, and grant them access to a weird claiming with an avatar, that lets them keep control (at least mostly) and revert to normal form, but stresses their body

[midnight grotto]

Thanks! My core idea is that Chicago's Consilium had a lot of idealistic movers and shakers, but things went really bad for them during the war and now the Orders have withdrawn into themselves rather than coordinating.

[fair jungle]

exaaactly

[rare swallow]

I double what I said that that's really cool

[fair jungle]

Tho can you live in the Umbra?
I know you can walk on it

[rare swallow]

I mean probably? But it's definitely not safe iirc

[clear delta]

Too many players were doing that

So now you can lose yourself if you stay too long, or somethinh like that

And the avatar storm exists

Since otherwise, lots of mages just abandon the ascension war to live in their personal umbral realms

[fair jungle]

What are they

[fair jungle]

Oh I was thinking the Garou doing that, but makes sense

"During World War II the Nazi aligned mages of the Thule Society experimented with a localized version of the Avatar Storm at the Dachau concentration camp. Which they referred to as the Folterbrunnen or Torture Fountain. In the wake of the Wewelsberg Tribunal the Technocracy took possession of this research. And eventually let Nazi mages like Alois Richter continue their experiments. "

Goddamit

[spice abyss]

Ah, White Wolf

[fair jungle]

Honestly at this point the more we stay away from teh nazi fetishisation the better

[clear delta]

Anyway. Avatar storm is a bunch of soul fragments agitated by a magical nuke

Going into the umbra is hard because of them

[midnight grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1iEUU-k6oOKenRiQH1dExJpjMCayaqh327uJQoxIGm4E/mobilebasic found my pitch document

[fair jungle]

Oh interesting, thanks!

“You see, homosexuality has always existed among the tribes, but
it’s also almost always been a secret thing. The Red Talons can accept it as
unspoken play between young Garou.
Shadow Lords use it in secret rituals. The Uktena and Fianna both see it as
something that marks a person of special vision, a shaman or a bard.
Among the Black Furies, it’s a special relationship they don’t discuss with
other tribes.”

You heard it folks
If you are a gay werewolf, you have special eyes and can become a shaman

[midnight grotto]

Granted that is also true of some human cultures

[grave gulch]

genome is a magick talking skull

[fair jungle]

Oh neat, in which ones?

[clear delta]

Reminded in mtaw you can convert a dead retainer into a library by having a being of the Primal Wild separate the skull from the flesh then dip into a well of knowledge

[midnight grotto]

Honestly none I can name off the top of my head, sowwy. I do know that in some societies the crossing of gender boundaries is associated with the ability to cross more supernatural boundaries

[fair jungle]

that's faaair

[queen heron]

I think theres evidence of that in Sumer

For more modern occultists its super common

wizards and queerness go together pretty well

[fair jungle]

||So the Testicular torsion spell started as a kinky fun before it got out of hand||

That's very interesting to hear, thank ya

[clear delta]

Trans witches. Trans witches.

[west latch]

In the replies of a tumblr post about the Nosferatu PC in Bloodlines wearing fetish gear

[clear delta]

I dislike the fem malkavian gear. None of them interested me when I looked at them

[fair jungle]

Yeah, is just 'slut'
While the male Malkavian is random n crazy

I wish the fem Brujah was buff too but
We can only dream

[spice abyss]

I watched some Hunter the Parenting again. It's always nice to see Big D go "Don't fight werewolves"

[fair jungle]

Rare moments when he gets serious

Probing of Kevin it still peak

[spice abyss]

Absolutely the best, yeah

[clear delta]

Yeah. If they they had made it wacky but well designed, I would've liked it.

[fair jungle]

Yeah, could had used something like those top fashion clothing , like this

[fair jungle]

.
Lizard King

And this is his
Lizard King Civilization

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/whitewolf/images/1/1d/Dragon_Kings.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180427035753

This is somehow connected to Werewolf the Apocalypse

[mighty zephyr]

Mokole

the were-lizards/dinosaurs

[velvet sparrow]

Hm

Mage question time

[mighty zephyr]

incredibly silly lore that I hope is completely changed lmao

[fair jungle]

This all happened during the Cretaceous era

[velvet sparrow]

Okay so, High Speech; it's the language of Atlantis, right?

[mighty zephyr]

Ya

[velvet sparrow]

(Unrelated question, which book has the "You can fluently spak High Speech Merit?")

[mighty zephyr]

Mage the Awakening core

[velvet sparrow]

(Found it it's Signs of Sorcery)

[mighty zephyr]

Ah

[velvet sparrow]

Eeee that's a bit much for my character to spec into

[fair jungle]

Mage sounds fun to play but god
You need prep time

[velvet sparrow]

rip

Uh, anyways, High Speech has like, written runes, correct?

[mighty zephyr]

Ya

[velvet sparrow]

Would it be okay for my character to have like, tattoos of High Speech, on them

[fair jungle]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/whitewolf/images/e/ef/Mokolé_Zhong_Lung_forms_01.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20180606091936

[mighty zephyr]

Prolly

[fair jungle]

Zhong Lung form

[velvet sparrow]

Not for any mechanical benefit, beyond maybe being able to buy into stuff or something, but it's for like, the aesthetic of "This woman has the magical language tattoo'd on her and it moves and shit when she does Magic"

[mighty zephyr]

You could easily have your tattoos be Yantras

[velvet sparrow]

I would totally do that

Okay, so it doesn't do any like, weird Magical backlash/is already an existing Merit

Thank you!

[versed zodiac]

using tattoos as yantras fucks

[velvet sparrow]

How specifically would I go about doing that?

Would it be Runes or

[mighty zephyr]

https://i.imgur.com/D8yw3in.png

[velvet sparrow]

Gotcha, thank you very much

[midnight grotto]

Seems like you need specific runes and they have to effect the person you're tattooing

Though you could also have rune tats that aren't intended as yantras

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah runes are for SPECIFIC spells

you can't have a general rune

I don't think they need to affect the person you're tattooing, specifically

[velvet sparrow]

It's more a flavour thing,

I might decide that a few of them are for certain spells

[midnight grotto]

I really like the healing tat idea

Making drastic alterations for magical pragmatism is fun. My Mage once tried to get his cabal-mates to each give him a tooth for sympathetic casting purposes.

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IWR9SkdI3j0

[midnight grotto]

Woodwose used to be a successful dentist until a fateful camping trip led to him completely shedding his old life and living in the city park.

[queen heron]

not anymore

high speech is basically “the shape of language” as a concept. Its words are sonically nonsense but convey THE TRUTH

[queen heron]

very much so

the mana symbols that crop up in the book are high speech

and sometimes its just manifests in the world

[queen heron]

it prolly would do weird mystic backlash but thats magic in general for you

no more than Shadow Names already do

[rare swallow]

Do you all think that a Biology master's degree student who suddenly became a mage like a few months ago and is now having a lot of annoying trouble keeping up with any aspect of their old master's degree while being increasingly obsessed with the mage stuff is a decent character idea? (That's basically what I'm going for, as a baseline)

[velvet sparrow]

Yes

[queen heron]

sure

just cut out sleep and use magic to constantly refuel you indtead what could go wrong

[rare swallow]

That's what Life is for!

[grave gulch]

So

As you know i was going to gm a couple vamp games to me frens

[rare swallow]

Yes?

[grave gulch]

And since i dont much like the vamps attitude i was thinking " if only i had an excuse to be evil to them..."

And then one of my players just made a guy who's being hunted by like 3 different clans from the camarilla

He picked the infamous flaw and that was the reason as to why he's infamous

[rare swallow]

Oh boy

[versed zodiac]

Vampires are pretty much bad guys by default

[grave gulch]

Im going to have fun with this

[versed zodiac]

never feel bad about making their lives hard

my VtM campaign is about sect war shit because I think it's fun to have the bad guys fight the bad guys and watch them scrabble and scrape at each other like filthy sewer rats fighting over a pizza crust

[grave gulch]

I wanted to put some emphasis on the "slowly loosing your humanity" thing any advice on that?

[versed zodiac]

honestly, just fuck their lives up enough and it'll happen

losing humanity is a slow descent that naturally progresses as the stresses of vampire living force the players into more and more extreme responses to the nighttime world

[grave gulch]

Well

They got that for certain now

With the crazy doode who decided to do a kaboom on a camarilla meeting

[clear delta]

Some mages engrave rotes in their bones, using themselves as grimoires.
You can do tgat in your mind too, creating an astral grimoire

[velvet sparrow]

Unfortunately, I do not believe I am at that level yet.

I am but a simple 0 xp Mage, who is already stretched thinner than she would like with Merit points

[clear delta]

Mages can engrave rotes in animals, people, plants. This is often bad for their health

[velvet sparrow]

As in, if I tried to redistribute any Merit points I'd be at risk of compromising fundamental ideas about the character

[clear delta]

Oh. You can do it later. Or investigate as a mystery. Or just take this as my infodumping

I just love the grimoire stuff

[rare swallow]

Grimoires are pretty cool

I do like the idea of a thyrsus with a Grimoire that's just ogham inscribed in bones

[clear delta]

Ogham?

[rare swallow]

Really old irish alphabet

[clear delta]

I see.
You can also use a spirit haunted grimoire

Or make the grimoire into a fetish

[rare swallow]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/All_Ogham_letters_including_Forfeda_-_Übersicht_aller_Ogham-Zeichen_einschließlich_Forfeda.jpg/350px-All_Ogham_letters_including_Forfeda_-_Übersicht_aller_Ogham-Zeichen_einschließlich_Forfeda.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Ogham_Stone_Rathass_Church_Tralee_Kerry.jpg

It was an alphabet meant to be carved on wood

[clear delta]

Cool!

[clear delta]

This is so off the wall

[clear delta]

What are your favorite Dead Dominions?

[queen heron]

If it counts, the Ocean

the christian one that collapsed into the sea is pretty good too

[clear delta]

Oh, don't think I read much of the Christian one

[clear delta]

Anyway. I dig the scrapyard, and the lost village

[rare swallow]

What are people's opinions on CofD (2e) combat btw? From what I read on it, it seems actually maybe decent?

(I really dislike combat in 20th anniversary)

[mighty zephyr]

I enjoy it

The only thing is that defense scales super high for ephemeral beings

[rare swallow]

Mm, that makes sense from what I'm reading in the MtAw book, considering taking a familiar merit or not (because it seems fun), the defence definitely seems it would get off the rails at high ranks

[queen heron]

Numbers get a little jank with supernatural powers

but its an alright mix of spending resources (willpower) and sudden bursts of lethality

taking a baseball bat to someone in a back alley or pulling a gun is real dangerous

[clear delta]

Hmm. Bull shifters are interesting. Since the current ones are generally victims of kidnapping, then indocrinated.
Imagine how complicated their feelings would be, if to some extent they liked being bull shifters

If they'd have embraced becoming one if it had been a choice

[fair jungle]

Bloodlines 1 is woke! /j

[clear delta]

Oh yeah. Think you can find an estrogen bottle in your room in vtmb

[velvet sparrow]

Yeah

[rare swallow]

Nice

[velvet sparrow]

Although it's probably not yours

[grave gulch]

tell me about weird wod creatures

[orchid void]

Hey you know about the MIBs?

We don’t know where they come from

They look like badly made humans

And they want you to stop talking about what you saw

If you don’t, the strange surgical tools they keep in their coats come out

And they try to lobotomize you~!

They simply appear, unbidden, mages guess at them coming from the Outer Reaches, where reality starts to break down

Not under the Abyss, but under its own incomprehensiblity

[grave gulch]

that's fucking scary

[grave gulch]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA ur using the possum pfp again! i love it so much

[rare swallow]

I felt like it again

:p

I don't know if I have any particularly spooky supernaturals to share

[velvet sparrow]

Hm

Know any Thallain?

[orchid void]

The Night Horrors books are really good

Vampire and Mage really won out on those in my book

Night Horrors: The Unbidden and then,,, what was the vampire one augh

[rare swallow]

I guess there's a Thallain that's basically an organ harvester nightmare but like I always felt it's a bit weirdly out of place compared to all the others

Like

• Destructive Goblin
• Night Hag (sleep paralysis)
• Child Snatcher
• Ogre
• Black tie organ harvester

It's a bit… yeah

WoD goes weird as always

[orchid void]

Oh, the mage book, Summoners, that also has some freaks to summon in it

Like Devils of pandaemonium

One of whom makes you gamble with him

[velvet sparrow]

Oh, if we're talking about Awakening demons,

[grave gulch]

tell me about night hag

[velvet sparrow]

There's the one Fluffy was telling me about, who like, yeets you into an extradimensional room with someone you choose for a year. You can't leave the room, and every morning you wake up the same as you were when you entered

[rare swallow]

I mean we could also talk about just the MtAw Abyss in general, it's really spooky

[grave gulch]

tell me tell me

like...as long as it fits the vibe of my game i dont think it matters if im playing owod

[rare swallow]

I'm trying to think of a good way to explain the Annunaki

I'm failing to think of a good way to explain rn sorry

[grave gulch]

no problem!

[queen heron]

I love the Minotaur

who beats the shit out of you until you command him to stop

[grave gulch]

really?

[orchid void]

The Oubliette

A year passes inside and a day without

[queen heron]

I like how it teaches the Truth of the Gauntlet

as long as you have the will, theres nothing they can do

[queen heron]

I dont actually think this is part of the boon

(but I used to think it worked this way too)

I think it straight up lasts years within and years without

[clear delta]

They have kids. They're creepy but harmless, and just ask for a phone

[orchid void]

Haha oh fuck that’s funnier

[orchid void]

Remember, Pandaemonium is about Harrowing being overcome by Will

[clear delta]

Pandemonium gives you reality's code im the form of Transgressiom abd Confrontation

[orchid void]

The Devil tests you, but you must use your Will to overcome the Lies of Distance and Separation

Thoughts are as real as actions, and only motion matters, not direction

[grave gulch]

i'll do a 180 on the devil trust me

[queen heron]

its devils are always teachers

they don't want to hurt you to hurt you

they want to teach you

[queen heron]

(this part might differ from irl teachers depending on your luck rip)

its just the way they teach is antagonism

the Minotaur wants to teach you about command and will-as-strength

it only beats you up if you let it

[short quiver]

Yeah, I had a whole thing way back when about how, philosophically...
Okay, so, all five Paths have trials and tribulations on the way to Awakening, so it's not that one particular path is harder or easier than the other. But the Truth found in Stygia, Arcadia, and the Primal Wild are all a bit more... impersonal? Death is Death, and Awakening to it means coming to terms with it.
The Aether, meanwhile, came across as a bit more personal. If you've Awakened on the Path of the Mighty you've been tested and found worthy.
Whie the Mastigos are the guys staring into the heart of existence, flipping it the double bird, and declaring that I Lived, Bitch

[queen heron]

if you accept it has the right, or will hurt you more if you tell it to stop, or think you dont have the right to tell it to stop

[queen heron]

hmmmmmm

interesting perspective

different from mine, but theres something there

Thrysus has the real big personal bend that I always dive into

[versed zodiac]

when you find yourself reflected in the text ?

[queen heron]

and I do like the personal Obrimos stuff, but most people tend to describe the systems part

huh

nah just

the Thrysus path is very internal as well

My favorite paths for vibes....

Obrimos and Mastigos, probably

I've played them all by now

but those are the ones I 'get' the easiest

[queen heron]

Life’s the seat of sex, hunger, and the fight or flight response. It’s everything we eat and the worms that devour us when we die, resurrect our flesh as theirs, and make us immortal. The Ecstatic honors Life’s primal sensations and celebrates its lesson: We’re not individuals, but colonies of tissue and bacteria that divide, are broken, and are reborn in ecological miracles.

The Supernal resounds with life, and Thyrsus experience it as Ecstasy; they feel it in their blood and in their bones and know its truths as surely as they know the sound of their mother’s heartbeat. A Thyrsus Scrutinizing a killing curse feels her heart gripped by a vise, feels sight dim and limbs grow cold. An Ecstatic who wishes to inspire fear with her magic must make herself feel that fear, then cast it out and inflict it upon her quarry. Magic must be lived to be understood.```

this is the part I really like about them

the experiential part of living

the truth of life is that you are a part of it and its a part of you

[short quiver]

Yeah, for sure I'm simplifying a good bit and phrasing it a bit for yucks
just that it always kind of amuses me how the Mastigos' path of enlightenment and their experience of the Truth is just defined, not just by struggle, but by active antagonism.

[clear delta]

Well, antagonism seems to me more of a 1e thing

That sample awakening, the priest, was more about meeting his own inner devil.

Pandemonium reveals all the darkness and tells you to deal with it.

[grave gulch]

out of topic question

can vampires become ghosts?

or is their soul shattered so hard that there's no afterlife?

[clear delta]

Unlocks the power of desires

[queen heron]

this is OwoD? or NwoD?

[clear delta]

Vtm?

[queen heron]

very different answers for both

[grave gulch]

tell both cause now im curious

[clear delta]

Lots of ghost vampires in vtm

One book tried to say they had no souls

Unless they achieved golconda.

But that clearly contradicted all existing ghost vampires

[grave gulch]

right

[queen heron]

I dont think either of the CofD's say it outright as a thing that can or can't happen

even skimmed Dark Eras 2 to see if they had a combo setting, but nah

[queen heron]

but this part isn't true for CofD

souls and ghosts are both a little different there, and don't actually have a direct connection

the Underworld isn't the afterlife

[versed zodiac]

also like

vampires have the best proof that the soul exists of all

theirs are delicious

[queen heron]

I tend to think of vampires as having weird blood-souls, yeah

or something soul-adjacent

in CofD, the soul isnt you

[versed zodiac]

that's just how it is though?

Diablerie consumes the soul of the victim

that's why it's the worst most awful thing

[queen heron]

so I'd jump to themes for new world vamp-ghosts

hmmmmmm

you've already got the Strix, but vamp-ghost could be a fun plot hook sometimes....

[versed zodiac]

At least, in the old world of darkness that's how it is

[queen heron]

I'd make it extremely rare, if it ever happens, and 100% weird

[versed zodiac]

idk about cofd

[queen heron]

but

I might make it so that like

ghosts get made of people when they get embraced super commonly

that sounds fun

[short quiver]

Right, but also someone can yank off your soul, which is bad, but you get better if you can stick someone else's soul back on.
Souls in nWoD are fungible.

[queen heron]

CofD allows for ghosts of living people if they get traumatized enough or near death

(or with magic)

so I think it would be a fun character beat if vampires rarely leave ghosts, maybe sometimes leave fucked up strix-ghost hybrids if weird stuff happens

and pretty commonly leave ghosts of their human selves

[queen heron]

good way to put it

they still carry some traits and stuff, sometimes

and a few factions believe in reincarnation

but its a far cry from the instrinsic seat of self a lot of settings have

the souls like your liver or kidneys

you're gonna want it to live but you got options

on a theme level vamps already kinda are ghosts tbh

just in denial about it

[clear delta]

The soul does grant soecialized mages access to the victim's mind

[queen heron]

It’s not uncommon to see the dead try to continue their 
lives, unaware and ineffectual. They haven’t felt the difference yet. And why not? Being dead is like being alive, 
only out of touch.```

like this is something that overlaps with Reqiuems thrust

holding on to the idea you're any different from the Draugr or the Strix

[queen heron]

theres some relation there

you need a soul to get into the Astral, afterall

when you're soulless you can't get willpower back with rest, same as if you have horrible nightmarish sleep

and it affects your virtue and vice too

I think CofD selfhood is hollistic. 'You' is the product of body & mind & soul & sympathy (and something else?)

[clear delta]

The temenos is called humanity's soul, ditto for anima mundi abd the universe.
Mages talking about mind will often call the self the soul

The soul alchemy of uncrowned king's involves the mind

[queen heron]

Mastigos are also obsessed around self-hood as the central Mystery

and frame everything through mind

but they also consider the self above the mind? or not the mind?

but its clearly not just the soul either - they're fungible to a degree

🤷‍♂️

gnosis isn't stored in the soul either

same as a legacy

but both involve shaping the soul or needing one to cast spells

The Tremere also seem kinda onto something

they got some of the best knowledge on the soul, and they don't seem to need one(?)

[rare swallow]

The Tremere being soul suckers makes a lot of sense, considering being part of the Tremere (oWoD) must be soul sucking also.

[queen heron]

I'm not saying they're right about the whole 'division of souls is a lie and everythings the Oversoul'

and especially not the towers part

but

well

they do get all subtle ruling eventually

[clear delta]

Okay so. The cofd underworld has those beings, the Cthonians. They have never lived. They are things formed out of death-symbols, like a weird big hungry vermin. They wander around, and dometimes destroy villages im their path. They can swim the underworld's waters without danger. Everything they do with people, including deals with mages, is a reflex, like scratching an itch. Their true intelligence does not care about us, and is not understood. They may leave plasm in their path, so ghosts may follow their path for it.
Unknown their relation to the Cthoniam gods, who do think about ghosts. And keeping them oppressed.

The underworld has regular ghosts. They're stuck there, and only reach rank 2

But if they drink from the rivers they become stronger. They become geists, representations of death. But lose their humanity. They become awful at all social interactions that aren't intimidating or being intimidated, they lose their memories, but keep triggers that may make them flip out

[queen heron]

(I would've earlier but I was also going to say MiB lmao)

Mothmen might count: a big insectoid spieces that lives around the southern US after insect exposure to Infrastructure turned them Weird. Not too smart, and without any of the future-sight stuff. They're just... big bugs that look like people. Mostly eat squirrels and stuff.

[clear delta]

Finally, the underworld has the Kerberoi. They watch over the dead dominions, detecting when the local Old Laws are broken, and hunting down to punish the lawbreaker. They don't often chase their quarry out of their Dominion. They're weak outside of it, and there may be more transgressions against the Dominion while they're out. Their appearance is also crafted out of death symbolism. There's often the implication of at least part of them having been ghosts. If so, they practically lost all humanity

[fair jungle]

Most evil thing you can do in Bloodlines
Poor Chunck 😦

Also yeah you can find strogem pills on your room

[grave gulch]

it's only yours if u want them to be

like anything in the world

just go and take it for yourself

[short notch]

had a V5 session zero today; two of the three coterie members are, respectively, a caitiff blood leech and a consensualist masquerade breacher. so this is going to be fun.

[versed zodiac]

oh yeah, it's all coming together

[short notch]

the caitiff might also be taking Mark of Caine and Walking Omen, for extra Fun(TM)

[rare swallow]

Ah I see they're speedrunning being on the red list

(probably)

[short notch]

reasons i'm starting them off in an Anarch domain: 1) a number of the players are new or haven't kept up with the lore in a long time and Anarch power structures are much easier to explain and understand than Camarilla power structures, and 2) they might actually survive more than one session

[rare swallow]

Lol yes

Tbh playing Anarchs is just more fun also, to me at least.

[grave gulch]

sounds like the group im gming for

[clear delta]

Oh, Skully. Another spook for you

Mage obsessed with studying reincarnation, killing people

Wait I think I did this one already

Uh. Oh, amkhata! They are creatures in mummy. Created monsters. They are chimeras, and I think body parts gave them different gameplay features

[grave gulch]

i think you mentioned the idea dont remember the reincarnation bit tho!

[grave gulch]

that reminds me of the tzimisce doing evil things to their ghouls

[clear delta]

He's broken. His obsession with magic led to it overpowering him, cracking his soul. Magic leaks and flows as it wishes, and he's now tied to his Fault, the obsession tgat broke him.
Beings of magic come from him, mainly a powerful ghostly woman in black. Those beings try to ensure ge stays on track, as obstacles and distractions may interefere

[viscid talon]

hello again

[velvet sparrow]

Hello Marci!

[versed zodiac]

whassup

glad to see you again

[viscid talon]

i was at pizza place and thinking about the golem of prague

and how, like, you could make an obrimos matter/spirits dude who controls a golem

and derive their shadow name from that story

though i know not whether this would be a good idea tbh

it's just something i was thinking about and wanted to share

[versed zodiac]

nah that fucks

pat yourself on the back, that's a great interpretation of Obrimos

[orchid void]

Yeah!! Prime to write the secret names of the Creator beneath its tongue :3

The Golem, by certain readings (mine), is to men as angels are to G-d - things without Will, created by another

Which probably falls under Prime if you wiggle in its thematics

[mighty zephyr]

Prime Matter definitely

[rare swallow]

It sounds like a really cool idea

[fair jungle]

Finished Breath Deeply, a 1995 Werewolf the Apocalypse Novel
Was fun, do recommend. Nothing out of this world but it was very fun ride.
Toronto Glass Walker goes to the Amazon to find a x thing, he's insecure and Penthex is doing what is IRL happening to amazon

[short quiver]

Oh yeah W:tA went to the Amazon on the regular.

[fair jungle]

It's a very fitting place honestly.
It's being destroyed by asshole companies since forever, people still live there, people living there ARE getting killed and worst by those companies
And we have undiscovered species of fauna there still

[viscid talon]

:3

[chilly vault]

Okay the Atlantean orders are: the Adamantine Arrow (fighty wizards), the Guardians of the Veil (wizard cops who try to limit paradox), the Mysterium (they like books and secret knowledge), and the Silver Ladder (all about hierarchy and ascension but the best of them want to lift up all people)

Then there’s the Free Council, who say, “fuck that noise”

Do any of those stand out to you as interesting or specifically uninteresting?

[orchid void]

The Free Council believe Hierarchy Fosters the Lie and are actually several hundred smaller mystery cults in a trenchcoat

[somber scarab]

Love a good mystery cult

[viscid talon]

Oh yeah, uhhhh

[chilly vault]

Aye they’re the wizard anarchists

[orchid void]

There's also the Nameless Orders if you can come up with a good idea for a "local" wizard org to belong to :3

[chilly vault]

Yeah true

You could always just make something up

[viscid talon]

I had some ideas earlier but they kinda fell apart. I was thinking up an Obrimos Arrow / Guardian who would basically be a Forces/Matter paladin type guy, just using magic to create and buff swords and blast people. Very knightly, wears one of those armor-shaped hoodies but they've buffed the material to actually act as armor.

but I couldn't think of a decent backstory, and there's already an Obrimos in the party.

[chilly vault]

That sounds rad tho

[viscid talon]

eh kinda.

[orchid void]

Yeah do it, you can both have Different Takes on Aether

Go Prime/Matter/Forces and enchant all your gear!

[viscid talon]

I'm gravitating a little more toward Acanthus right now but it's even harder to come up with a backstory for that one since their awakening is more... self-motivated.

I am better at writing characters who kinda fall into their 'taking up the quest' moment.

[orchid void]

Would you like an example Acanthus Awakening?

[viscid talon]

yesh pleashe

[orchid void]

I have one laying around

[viscid talon]

I know that they tend to awaken when they break some sort of cycle they're in, like dropkicking their shitty boss out of a 4th story window

[orchid void]

So the young man cut his hair and rid himself of the world, to hurl himself into the Green River and never rise again- but that isn't how the story goes, you know that and I know that and the young man knows that too. (He knows it not now, but later. You'll see.) And the young man, who had jumped into the river, walked out of the river into a world that wasn't quite right, but felt better. 

He wandered out of the river with a wallet a drowned man gave him, into a second-hand shop where a silver-tongued woman sold him a suit that actually fit. The barber next door had scissors that snipped and trimmed the young man's hair, and he stood on the street knowing that the cashier and the barber were changelings, fae-folk who lived like mortal men. The young man saw how they fit the world, how they didn't, and how he was like them. The dead-man's wallet was empty, but the sun was bright through the clouds, and the young man kept walking. He met a bum on the street corner, who asked for what the young man could spare. He had nothing to give the bum, so the young man picked up the bum on his back and carried him to the shelter before it closed. The bum said he was a good man, a king even. The young man signed his name right under the bum's on the shelter's rolls and handed the clipboard to Titania as she sat behind the desk.

Here's the Mystery Play of Outis, an Acanthus with the Silver Ladder

He tried to kill himself and ended up Just Transing His Gender instead

and now he can do magic

[viscid talon]

oh that's an extremely good piece

[short quiver]

okay first off I love the Free Council, they are my special dudes and I'll just about always pick them.

[viscid talon]

maybe i'll make a trans acanthus

[orchid void]

thank you! i hope it helps

[viscid talon]

an atranthus, if you will

[orchid void]

a gender is a kind of cycle, role, that you can break out of

yes?

[viscid talon]

i like this

hrm...

lemme think

[short quiver]

but out of the five I have some really neat ideas for just about all of them except, honestly, the Mysterium
because tbh the Mysterium just feel like "the wizards who are wizards" to me

[orchid void]

what's a gender but a mask you build for others to see? what are other genders but patterns of action and doing? what's the difference between a Fate and a Gender? Is there One? Why?

Mysteries Abound~!

[chilly vault]

Acanthus also just get some rad magic

Fate and Time are uh

[orchid void]

Is a Fate what you do or is a Fate what you are

[chilly vault]

Stronk

[orchid void]

Fates can Change, why not Everything Else?

[somber scarab]

Mysterium are pretty straightforward but they also lend themselves heavily to "peeking under rocks to see what's beneath" and such without other distractions

[orchid void]

Alternatively for the Mysterium you can lean into the Mystery Cult half of them

and join the Egregore

Fuse Your Soul With The Library Of Souls We Built

[chilly vault]

Guardians of the Veil honestly need to be reworked a bit to not just be bastard cops

[orchid void]

The way my Gaurdian is insane about the Esoteric Tenents and most people just think there's something wrong with her (Catholic)

[chilly vault]

But if you rework them they’re cool

[orchid void]

If you play them as Spies and Detectives, people wrapped up in The Cause of Justice (Even Handed, Heavy, Awful, Something That Destroys Them)

I think they work very well

[chilly vault]

Yeah

[orchid void]

The GoV mostly tests and initiates you deeper into the Mysteries based on how loyal you are not to them personally, but to The Mission, The Cause

[chilly vault]

Arrow and Ladder are probably my faves

Ladder more than Arrow, really

[short quiver]

I feel like 2nd Edition did enough to both them and the setting that they work a lot better.

[orchid void]

Yeah in 2e there's a lot more reason to vibe with them

[short quiver]

Like you can say they're being bastard cops but they're not wrong that you need to fucking stop dumping Paradox around you and deciding it's somebody else's problem.

[orchid void]

They aren't wrong when they say "Merit Must Guide The Fallen World"

That personal action and sacrifice are important

[midnight grotto]

I have a trans NPC on standby for my Mage Noir game who was plagued by visions of a beautiful woman and only realized "oh that's me" when she was initiated into the Uncrowned Kings. Shadow name Galatea, formerly Pygmalion.

[orchid void]

oh you've told me about her!! yes i did love reading about her

[midnight grotto]

Big into alchemy metaphors

[short quiver]

"Who watches the watchers?" "We do." "So who watches you?" "We do that too."

[versed zodiac]

they're quite serious about it, in fact

[orchid void]

do alchemy on yourself to trans your gender - alessandro cagliostro probably

[midnight grotto]

Sam Vimes wizard...

[versed zodiac]

meanwhile the vehme are like "yeah we're unaccountable vampire cops fuck you gonna do about it"

and the answer, generally, is "fuck you up with vampire superpowers"

[short quiver]

(I once, briefly, had a Thyrsus whose Shadow Name was also her drag name.)

[midnight grotto]

Actually hold on he's INCREDIBLY Mastigos

[versed zodiac]

I mean yeah

[orchid void]

"I don't watch myself. My brothers and sisters watch me. For if I slip, they will be the first to correct me." And the good ones absolutely mean it.

[versed zodiac]

he has a little shadow demon in his head that beats up the other shadow demons

that's how Mastigos he is

[chilly vault]

Mastigos are my faves

[versed zodiac]

his brain goblins literally beat the collective unconsciousness up and took its lunch money

[orchid void]

i am in the same boat we're all looking at Lucy again

[short quiver]

My Mage, who I've played several times and hopefully will again, is a Free Council Mastigos who is totally not John Constantine in MtA
And he kinda hates the Guardians but he does kinda vibe with them in some key aspects.

[versed zodiac]

sam vimes walked so that the Persona protags could run.

[velvet sparrow]

He literally [Thud! Spoilers] ||Manifested a new demon god to beat up the demon god of vengeance he had possessing him and it worked||

I think that's Thud!

[versed zodiac]

it is Thud yes

and that was what I was talking about

[chilly vault]

If I ever get to actually play Mage I’ll be tempted to do a Mastigos of the most broken legacy

[versed zodiac]

Sam Vimes is just that stubborn a bastard

[chilly vault]

Jerk calls himself Coyote

[velvet sparrow]

I'm playing an Obrimos Mysterium, because you know what, I am a Wizard and I'm proud of it

[short quiver]

(which one's that)

[velvet sparrow]

Also because I feel like "Stereotypical Wizard" is a fun vibe to bring to a modern day setting, where nobody else is bringing that vibe

[orchid void]

I'm having such fun with Lucy in the Gaurdians because its a bit like playing a Scorpion in L5R

[short quiver]

ahh, that's fun too

[versed zodiac]

okay so I don't have a ton of CofD Mage (I can't remember if the letter is S or W lol) but I need to know

can you Xehanort

[valid merlin]

hmm, they do have a similar vibe yeah

[chilly vault]

The name escapes me but it’s the “convert matter to energy and back” one

[valid merlin]

be the obviously most suspicious person in the room 😛

[chilly vault]

From the Tarot book

[versed zodiac]

tanking in social combat

you soak all the damage (suspicion) by mitigating it (being God's edgiest Hot Topic customer)

[orchid void]

lucy is the party face so she is in fact tanking social combats by being Fucking Creepy

[velvet sparrow]

Except...

Now I'm having some doubts of "Ok but what if I played a Guardian???"

[versed zodiac]

Delilah

what did Lucy do as a job before she awakened

[orchid void]

:3

[versed zodiac]

and was it retail at Hot Topic

[valid merlin]

there is a very funny shuji (social technique) in L5R 5e for this
you make a roll against someone, and depending on how much you succeed you give them a bonus to their social defense on all social rolls against you
but an equal penalty on the same thing for everyone else
I honestly love the social stuff

[velvet sparrow]

(And now I want to play L5R 😭)

[short quiver]

Wagner was great because I first played him on a big open chat game
& it was kind of hilarious how often he could be like "so fair warning, I'm a complete bastard" & like 4/5 people go "aaaaahhh, I know how this goes, I bet he's just a softie deep down"
so they're still somehow shocked when it turns out that he's actually a complete bastard.
("I did say.")

[versed zodiac]

is this just talking shit

[valid merlin]

yes
you make them so mad at you, they are more susceptible to other people

[versed zodiac]

it's the wrestling heel technique

[valid merlin]

that's what Fire shuji are all about, being an annoying shit

[orchid void]

love to play a Heel

and Gaurdians let you play Weird Heels

[versed zodiac]

YOU AIN'T NOTHING BUT A TWO-BIT SON OF A FISHERMAN

noble samurai guy: GASP

[viscid talon]

damn this is tough

im writing something out but im not getting to the point.

[versed zodiac]

can't hit the heart of the ✨vibe✨?

[viscid talon]

The son tried to imagine himself like his father, tall and broad-shouldered and with grey streaks where his hairline met his temples, and he winced. He wasn't sure why.```

I've got this so far but the basic gist I'm going for is 'awakens after meeting future self (fem) and experiencing a Lie-shattering egg-cracking moment

[viscid talon]

This person spends their whole life only knowing who they are with relation to what their father wants for them

but they awaken when they meet a hot woman at the bar, and the hot woman is them!

plot twist!

[orchid void]

Ooh, hey, there's a fun idea

[short quiver]

Yeah no that's cool.

[viscid talon]

but i think im struggling to write it all out in a way that isn't weird

[orchid void]

A good Mystery Play where you meet yourself... so then your ST can set up the "other half" of the awakening in your game

[versed zodiac]

everyone thinks their MtA game is gonna be deep and mysterious but the odds of it turning into this are never zero

[viscid talon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bxpkrUW3Ns

[short quiver]

(Wagner's awakening involved shanking his spirit guide to get to the end.)
(You don't need to be faster than the demons, you just need to be faster than your dead uncle.)

[rare swallow]

The superior non AI animation version

[versed zodiac]

of course, the ideal is achieving a balance of Fuckass Wizard Shenanigans and deep literary themes that your table likes

[viscid talon]

to be fair mine is being run by fluffy so it's gonna get esoteric i think

[rare swallow]

Also: The chance of any VtM group just becoming What We Do in the Shadows is not 0.

[viscid talon]

that mf knows how to play Glitch, so anything is possible

[orchid void]

I love Pandaemonium for being a weird Mental BDSM Realm

[versed zodiac]

okay listen as an actual AI architect I don't really see an issue with using AI on stuff that's not anyone's intellectual property

that being said this animation is goated

[orchid void]

anyway wizard shit

[viscid talon]

but yeah, time / fate classic acanthus with a trans twist

[orchid void]

@viscid talon if you're having trouble with Vibes, i'd recommend reading some Proper Poison

[valid merlin]

that just means it has equal odds of silly and esoteric 😛

[viscid talon]

what's proper poison

[orchid void]

i'm currently looking into the Count St Germaine for example

bc i got curious about Cagliostro

i am Already Trying To Download French Alchemical Manuscripts

[chilly vault]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-por-que-no-gif-23322568

[orchid void]

The Proper Poison is good old fashioned esoterica

and seeing what you can do with it~!

[viscid talon]

where do i read this proper poison

oh wait is it just like

[versed zodiac]

I can't find The Proper Poison either is this a translation

[viscid talon]

actually reading esoteric texts?

[versed zodiac]

or is there not a literal esoteric text by that name

[viscid talon]

fuckinm trawling through the ancient scrolls

hrm

[orchid void]

actually reading esoteric texts and the ramblings of the weird and unwell

[chilly vault]

Ah, something to consider: any Legacies that catch your fancy?

[viscid talon]

i gotta go real quick cause im a lil sick but thank you all for giving me this idea!

it's more than I had before :)

🫂

lov u guys a lot

[orchid void]

Bibliotecha Pelyades for example, but that hews closer to the modern UFO vibes

ofc dearhear!

[chilly vault]

Legacies can go to very cool places

[versed zodiac]

peace out, gloamlet

[orchid void]

i am telling you to read weird old books

[velvet sparrow]

Like what?

[versed zodiac]

okay but I still have weird new books I need to read first

[rare swallow]

I've been reading weird books on magic since I was fifteen, I've been training for MtAw for years now. I'm ready.

[short quiver]

It's great, yeah.
And the Awakening did end with him getting ripped to shreds by demons but not until he'd already reached the Watchtower, so his fundamental enlightenment was "eat shit demons, even if I die I still win."

[versed zodiac]

I have had a copy of House of Leaves on my desk unopened for months 😭

[orchid void]

i'm currently trying to find The Most Holy Trinosophia which was either written by the Count of Cagliostro or the Count St-Germaine, but was definitely in Cagliotro's possession when he was arrested by the Inquisition in Rome

i just can't find it in english, only french,,,,

wait oops

[versed zodiac]

oh yeah these are some fucking CRUSTY web1 HTML-only sites I'm seeing

[orchid void]

Lucy got to talk to the Devil (herself) and the Demons (also herself) until she realized that chains go both way, and scissors let you edit

And then she accepted and subborned the thing sent to harrow her, because she was trying to move forward

Distance is a Lie, and Difficulty is something you have to Overwhelm

[short quiver]

Ahhh, I like that.

[orchid void]

hey kids, do you not have a plot for your WoD game this week? let auntie lilah help
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/

[versed zodiac]

oh man this is crusty as fuck

[rare swallow]

Noice

[versed zodiac]

I'm just gonna save that link for when I don't have work

[velvet sparrow]

I'm having second doubts about my character now 😔

[orchid void]

Ah just make more, keep 'em in you back pocket :3

I have a whole extended Cabal for Lucy that basically exists as vague NPC gestures

[rare swallow]

I think your character is cool

And it's as you and I said, keeping it basic for a first go at the game is probably better

[orchid void]

Thank you i try very hard and i'm gearing up to show the party how much of a Weird Fuckup she is underneath her MIB Veneer

[rare swallow]

Oh I meant that to Maddie, but your character too!

[orchid void]

ah! lmaoooo

no worriessss

[rare swallow]

Lol happens

[orchid void]

I should sit down and actually read the Arrow Order book

the Arrow are the only ones I've not got any real thoughts about,,,

[velvet sparrow]

but also i feel really bad right now so i don't think i should do anything...

[orchid void]

You can read books and feel out vibes - w-

[rare swallow]

Kinda same, I find it hard to wrap my head around them

[rare swallow]

It's probably better you wait for session 0 tbh, I decided to do that instead of eternally tweaking my character

[chilly vault]

The Arrow are to my mind Preparing For The War

They see something ahead and it’s not pretty

And for it, the Atlanteans will need soldiers

[orchid void]

But see, they say they aren't preparing because the War Is Here

Existence Is War

[short quiver]

The Arrows' thing is basically Enlightenment for self-improvement, where the other Orders focus on either the knowledge for its own sake or ideological goals.
Which isn't to say Arrows are selfish, because part of their structure of enlightened self-improvement is dedication to higher ideals.

[chilly vault]

I think the kind of people who are attracted to the Arrow are like … the types of people who cannot look away

[short quiver]

It's fundamentally the same kind of philosophy you see everywhere from martial arts to US Army ads. "Be all that you can be."

[rare swallow]

Yeah it's very "Purity of mind, purity of body" kinda vibes

[orchid void]

you know i guess treating them as the wulin of the mage world might be something

can i do five element theory with the atlantean elemental precepts? lets find out!

[chilly vault]

I think that’s literally in a book

Traditions?

[orchid void]

oh fuck yes

[versed zodiac]

when does it become a war without reason though

[orchid void]

when you start getting dreams from the General

[chilly vault]

There’s a book that deals with Taoist magic among other things

Aye, “Magical Traditions”

[orchid void]

alright, onto the list it goes

[short quiver]

That is a fair question!
And that is, in a large part, why service is so key to the Arrows' doctrine. You need to face and overcome adversity to be strong, but you also can't just be undirectedly antagonistic. Cultivate your strength and give it purpose and meaning through oaths and ideals. "Service Is Mastery."

[versed zodiac]

I started with just having the Ultrakill hard ass line but honestly a mage that’s spiralled into permanently being on an aimless warpath fucks pretty hard as a concept for an antag

[short quiver]

Also, I've mentioned before, but it's very funny how both of the militant Diamond Orders basically see killing, even/especially Seers of the Throne, as something horrible but sometimes necessary. The Arrows seeing that war and service might mean that killing is unavoidable, the Guardians going further with their whole Messianic "until the day that people like us are not needed" thing
& then the tech nerd hippie leftist Free Council is here like "a Seer ain't got no humanity! They're the foot soldiers of the Truth-hatin', Humanity-enslavin' Demiurges and they need to be dee-stroyed. That's why each and every sumbitch we find serving the Pyramid, they're gonna die."

[versed zodiac]

Arrows: “You take this shit too far”
Free Council: “ain’t no such place. C’mon, let’s kill some Pyramid fuckers”

[mighty zephyr]

It's more that there's no symbolic meaning to the violence

The Free Council is purely political violence and its not for any real Enlightened purpose

Which is the difference between how they and the Arrow fight

And doing it without purpose and just for political gain is uh

Bad For You

[versed zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/northernlion-nl-hammers-beat-him-beat-gif-7823471197919175037

Pictured: free council meeting (very secret)

[clear delta]

Oh, I love this!

[rare swallow]

Oh I didn't see that earlier, that's great

[clear delta]

Character who awakens in stygia by seeing their "future", the potential sum of their life, in a morgue's table. And just kicks it off the table, places a doll in its place, and modifies it to look how she wants to be.

Or just modifies the corpse itself

She changes her registration in the system/the words in her headstone, signing her name in the watchtower

[short quiver]

A valid perspective! But, to respond with the Libertine counterargument:
Rejecting the world they live in for the higher is the Diamond's failing. Humanity is inherently magical; the Lie is an active force, propagated and cultivated by the Throne. If as above so below then as below so must be above; to fight the Lie, fight the Liars.
The Fallen World is only a prison because those fuckers are barring the door.

[clear delta]

Meanwhile, thyrsus awakening where you burrow in the world tree to make a coccoon.
Or you hang yourself, and the scar tissue from the elements forms into a coccoon.
Metamorphic awakening, go!

[grave gulch]

my mage will become a mage cause of this one talking goose he saw that one time

[versed zodiac]

internet-transmitted brain-booming meme that Awakens specifically you singular is a hilarious concept though

[clear delta]

"This character is just like me fr fr" *awakens*

[versed zodiac]

sending you my OC that is literally your awakened self

causing you to awaken

[clear delta]

Assigned magesona

[rare swallow]

Enters Tumblr witchsona trend
Accidentally makes your own shadow name and awakens

[queen heron]

when you refuse hope, struggle anyway, and then get your head cut off by a angst-gel probably

Arrows are big on restraint and following through

they dedicate to other's causes

[short quiver]

Also "war without reason" is the guiding philosophy and end goal of the Praetorians.
(Seers in service to the General, one of the four Great Ministries)

[grave gulch]

Ya think werewolves like captain planet?

[chilly vault]

I think they like this version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVzLzClY2E8

[grave gulch]

heh

[viscid talon]

hey gang! I'm putting together a sheet for an Acanthus Guardian, and I'm trying to find a way to express a specialty in Investigation for someone who is really good at sniffing out Sleepers right before they awaken

Is there a good word for that?

[rare swallow]

Hmm, not sure tbh

[heady kestrel]

"Minotaur" or "Labyrinth"

as a refrence to the whole... Guardians of the Veil Labyrinth thing

[viscid talon]

ah, thank u!

[fair jungle]

Absolutely

Some of them at least

[grave gulch]

hehe

[fair jungle]

She probably does
And she's a Hart Wardens Garou

[grave gulch]

What do they do?

[fair jungle]

"The Hart Wardens are usually the protectors and caretakers of nature. They may focus on preserving the more remote and undiscovered places of the world, or cultivate a place important to them or a culture they associate with, such as a farm, a plot of land, or a caern and its surroundings."

Example archetypes:

Huntsman: The Huntsman understands the importance to manage wildlife population in order to protect everyone. They know the grounds they keep in extreme detail, in both their lupus and homid form.

Digital Caern Stategist: They know how to set up traps around the caern and how to work with the spirits to keep the fog of war extended. Together with their pack they can push back any threats, even if they come from an angle not yet considered as long as they stay alert.

Emcee: Music is another way to translate stories even if everyone doesn't get what's being said. The Emcee uses that to rally others, diss on their rivals and keep the party going well into the night.

Local Legend: The Local Legend has a story about when they appear, hunting after the careless, greedy, or otherwise unwelcome. While the stories may make them out to be a vengeful stalker, the truth is that they are working to keep their pack's secret glade hidden.

Now you may be wondering
"Emcee?"

Yes, Emcee
it's on the picture

"Yo ya mama is so dumb that she goes to the vet even if she's not Garou"

[grave gulch]

Emcee

[twin mural]

A small question about Mage the Awakening 2e: Beating up a rank 2 spirit is fine-ish Wisdom-wise I think. At what point does it become a problem for wisdom?

[mighty zephyr]

Killing it or enslaving/completely transforming it's nature

[twin mural]

Letting it starve to death by removing it's Locus would also count, right?

[mighty zephyr]

A spirit doesn't NEED a Locus, it can get Essence from any place it's resonant with

It'd be like stealing someone's house though

[mighty zephyr]

https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/1388116-mighty-bear-fan-pangean

I'm still kinda proud of Mighty Bear so I'm linking it

appropro of nothing

[grave gulch]

question

does a nosferatu thin blood looks less deformed?

[versed zodiac]

thinbloods don't inherit the clan curses

so they don't look deformed at all, actually

[grave gulch]

that's neat

i'll say

nobody that i know seems to think that

but playing as a thing blood sounds really cool

[versed zodiac]

thinbloods are cool!

the one issue with them is that their overall power level is incongruous with most other vampires

they're struggle bus riders

[grave gulch]

true

but at least in situations where humans have the upper hand such as the 2nd inquisition going to town

you now have an advantage that other vamps dont have

ur really hard to find

[versed zodiac]

but thinblood campaigns are a thing if you'd rather be struggle bus riders

they're their own narrative of teetering on the brink between human and vampire

[grave gulch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1014538127722946600.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

i wanna run a game for my buddies that has som enphasis on your fading humanity

so they are all starting off as "children"

[versed zodiac]

see, humanity being lost is the archetypical VtM narrative to start off with

yeah you play as childer and it just sucks out here

[grave gulch]

nobody wanted to be a thin blood sadly

still i think it's going to be fun

[versed zodiac]

thing is, I don't recommend having a thinblood mixed into a coterie of non-thinbloods

you gotta either roll thinblood campaign or not

[grave gulch]

right

[clear delta]

Thinblood alchemy

[grave gulch]

omg it wax!

[versed zodiac]

not because it's a cardinal sin or anything, it's just that thinbloods naturally kinda separate themselves from full-blooded vampires in that their perks get them into places normal vampires can't go (i.e. direct sunlight, daytime work, etc.) and shut them out of places normal vampires can (i.e. camarilla territory)

that and their unique powers play nicest with other thinbloods

[clear delta]

*Tips hat*

[grave gulch]

but yeah i need to figure out how to best give that vibe to my game...

[heady kestrel]

I still think it would be funny to do a chronicles game where you play as a bunch of the minisplats

Like Proximi and Fey Touched and Stigmatics

[versed zodiac]

the loser squad

[heady kestrel]

I am pretty sure all splats have some sort of variation on these lil guys

The lil guys

Oh ghouls too

[patent talon]

Very cool!! I do really like the idea of ||were-bears fighting to get back Winter's blessing to Bear from Winter Wolf||

[crystal fern]

I've run a thinblood character in a non-thinblood chronicle before, you just have to be accommodating with your storytelling (and the thinblood player needs to know what they're doing, in terms of playing in a way that supports the narrative vs what the archetype is normally good at)

same way as you can run a ghoul PC in the right chronicle with the right amount of buy-in

[mighty zephyr]

I'm playing the new WtA interactive novel

https://i.imgur.com/NsmoCjH.png

It's actually pretty good

[grave gulch]

Havent even done vamp game yet

But random idea popped out

What about werewolves in a stalker like setting

Trying to protect the last bits of nature that havent been tainted by radiation

[mighty zephyr]

https://i.imgur.com/maXk4hf.png

[grave gulch]

shoot them

[versed zodiac]

Dril ref?

In a WtA interactive novel?

[heady kestrel]

Do NOT fight Jerry Seinfield in the Tenemos
Worst mistake of my life

[clear delta]

I found the Ross from Friends in the Temenos. Do not question the power of world ending appetite.

[clear delta]

Ohohoho. We never told you of the Zeky, did we?

From cofd. They're corpses brought to life through nuclear power

They're an unusual type of promethean (people created from corpses and alchemy)

Something is just wrong with them, and they have a harder time becoming human than other prometheans.

[mighty zephyr]

https://i.imgur.com/yMAz504.png

[valid merlin]

a squazi

[mighty zephyr]

So yeah

All the Cult of Fenris in this are actual Nazis

which makes me think that this was before the rewrites that made them Not That

[grave gulch]

Oooooh

Is there more stuff made from radiation?

[mighty zephyr]

Okay so

After reading this book for 8 hours

Almost 9

If THIS is the tone of Apocalypse now I'm sold

It's all fucking Forsaken vibes

It's trashy assholes eating sub par meals in low income housing trying to stop the end of their world

[fair jungle]

It is true that in the novel the Get of Fenris are ||Literal neo-nazis with swasticas n stuff?||

Also can you link to the store page plz?

Reddit is also not happy with the novel because of the Get being super antagonists
Which I don't get it, the Get was always the 'anti-paladin' of the Garou, the one that you really can't trust, extremists, etc.

[grave gulch]

fuck

i hope not

[clear delta]

Hmm, think not?
In 1e, a zeka could create mutated cockroach minions

[fair jungle]

Can you expand on that?

[chilly vault]

The funniest thing about WtA historically is that its author was going through a weird crisis of faith at time of writing and the “werewolves are animist demigods” aspect is almost certainly a reflection of that

[fair jungle]

Oh please do tell me more about that

[grave gulch]

wereotter

[chilly vault]

No, changing breeds was a notoriously bad book

Alternately

“Thereotter”

[grave gulch]

shut up, wereotter

[fair jungle]

The were-crocodiles-also-dinossaurs are cool tho

[clear delta]

Cofd has werezcrocodiles, but they're a cannibal cult empowered by the corpse of the ancient Crocodile god

[heady kestrel]

Werewolf seems wild
It has like mage levels of cosmology

[fair jungle]

Did you saw the lizard kingdom during the dinossaur era? :3

[heady kestrel]

I haven’t read werewolf yet but it gets brought up in passing in mage a lot

In The Before Time mages and werewolves were doing weird super politics

[fair jungle]

Does it talk about the time werewolfs tried to F all humans and failed, but that is what gave the Humans a genetic fear of werewolfs?

[clear delta]

Yeah, in cofd. Werewolves and mages went around hunting gods

[heady kestrel]

There is even a Hunter Conspiracy who claims descendancy from the Sleepwalker section of the Atlantean military

Or something like that

[clear delta]

Mages and humans wanted their hearts for their villages.
Werewolves were keeping harmony

[fair jungle]

Yo that's awesome, tell me more

that's forsaken right? Not apocalypse

[clear delta]

Forsaken

[fair jungle]

damn, shame.

now to implement that in my own table for funzies

[clear delta]

So, in Forsaken, long ago. The gauntlet was a bridge world

Between flesh and spirit

In this land, known as the Border Marches, Pangaeans walked. Pillars of the world, beings between flesh and spirit.

This state of the world was called Pangaea

Pamgaeans had Omphalos Stones as their hearts.
They could give to humans pieces of them. After seeing their usefulness, they started negotiating with and hunting Pangaeans for those

Wolf, the progenitor of werewolves, was the lord of this border. Maintaning balance, hunting those who broke the harmony.
Spinner Hag and Plague King, for example, went around terrorizing humans. They were hunted, and though they lost, they persisted to this day im a fragmented form, as spiders and rats that take over humans

[fair jungle]

That's why it became the Forsaken?
Because they kinda
Lost all that?

[clear delta]

Okay so

Wolf started to become weak

Most of the Firstborn werewolves decided to kill him

[spice abyss]

Things started getting away

[clear delta]

As he (gender used out of tradition. Could use any for Wolf) could no longer perform his duties

[spice abyss]

It was not a casual decision

[clear delta]

Wolf also had a weakness to the bite of his children. So that made the job easier

[fair jungle]

"Casual decision"
Such as "What if I ... exploded?"

[clear delta]

With his dying howl, the Border Marches collapsed, becoming the gauntlet

[fair jungle]

As revenge, accident or punishment?

[clear delta]

It was, possibly, to make it easier for werewolves to perform their duty without Wolf

But I'm unsure on that part

[spice abyss]

Jury's still out on that

[fair jungle]

Oh cool.
So is one of those 'fandom mysteries that is better without a official explanation'

||Like who dropped the bombs first in fallout||

[spice abyss]

Killing Wolf fundamentally altered the world's metaphysics

[clear delta]

Anyway, here are the non playtested stats of a Pangaean made by a dev. That's the first one mages hunted
https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/855280-pangaea-unleashed?p=857671#post857671

[fair jungle]

thank ya

[clear delta]

Oh yeah. Pangaeans have access to mage magic

[grave gulch]

unfair

[clear delta]

Anyway. After Wolf's death. Luna was angry at werewolves. She forgave them, but they had to take the oath of the moon, taking on Wolf's duties.
Thus, they are now Forsaken. Descendants of the wolves that killed their father and broke Pangaea, they must carry out penance forever

[clear delta]

Pangaeans are impressive

Overwhelming Presence: A mortal human who encounters Fox suffers an Integrity breaking point. If this roll is failed, the character gains the Madness persistent condition.

Red Shift: Attempts to fold space or tamper with the fabric of time that target Fox or affect an area she can physically perceive (including appropriate uses of the Space and Time Arcana) allow Fox to pre-emptively and reflexively change her location by up to three hundred and thirty three miles. This is not actual teleportation, simply the nature of reality correcting itself. If Fox is in the presence of someone using a supernatural power to move forward or backwards in time, or to stop time, the Pangaean may spend 1 point of Willpower to 'tag along' if she wishes, allowing her to arrive at the same point in time or, for example, act normally along with the power's user if they have stopped time. [...]
Wisdom-Eater: Whenever a character succeeds at a roll based on Intelligence, Academics or Occult while in the presence of Fox, the Pangaean gains 1 point of Essence. Fox may, if she chooses, also strip the character of a single point of Essence or Mana in the process. If Fox spends 1 Willpower point, she may also initiate a Clash of Wills against the character whereupon, if she is successful, she may tear their soul out and reflexively consume it, giving her the rote quality on her next use of the Mind Arcanum. Upon going to sleep, Fox may spend 1 Willpower point extend the range on this effect for up to three hundred and thirty three miles rather than just her presence.

[mighty zephyr]

Yea

[fair jungle]

what is your opinion on that?
Some older fans are pissed

What is the name of the novel again?

[mighty zephyr]

The Book of Hungry Names

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2402280/Werewolf_The_Apocalypse__The_Book_of_Hungry_Names/

Steam

Werewolf: The Apocalypse — The Book of Hungry Names

You and your shattered werewolf pack must save the living Earth with Rage and spirit! In this interactive novel with hundreds of choices, can you defeat a Wyrm Spirit that manifests as a lie that you want to believe?Werewolf: The Apocalypse — The Book of Hungry Names is an interactive novel by Kyle Marquis set in the World of Darkness. It's enti...

Price

$14.99

▶ Play video

[fair jungle]

thank!

[heady kestrel]

Idigam seem like they would be funny mage villans

[grave gulch]

is it everyone on the get of fenris?

or just some of them went nazi?

[mighty zephyr]

The Cult in general is referred to as bad guys but you're dealing with one pack largely which are specifically neo-nazis

[grave gulch]

i see i see

like yeah, the get of fenris are cray cray to say the least

but if they were ALL nazis...i dont know if i would even want to use em

[mighty zephyr]

So I think what happened is that this novel was conceptualized WHILE the Cult were all the Swords of Heimdall (the actual Nazi werewolves)

So whilst that got rewritten to the Cult just being consumed by Hauglosk and being just kinda the exemplars of the Garou's problems in the rpg

this has them be actual nazis in addition to the Hauglosk

[grave gulch]

I see

[heady kestrel]

Hosts in werewolf the forsaken seem wacky

[mighty zephyr]

They are

[heady kestrel]

Seems like the type of thing a Thyrsus would get obsessed with

[mighty zephyr]

Hosts get really fucking fun when you get to their higher eschelons

like the host who is the closest the world's ever gotten to ressurecting the Spinner Hag, who due to her power has developed self-awareness and doesn't want to do it anymore

but can't stop because she's now a divine boulder rolling downhill

or the giant Host monsters where people are hooked up to them like living batteries of essence and flesh

[heady kestrel]

Looking on the wiki the fungus host is also really funny

[fair jungle]

I can see it
Neo-nazis recruit people that think the world needs a radical approuch to solve all issues so they fuck the head of recruits with a bunch of babble and bad data , while giving them a 'ENEMY' to focus on.

[spice abyss]

The fungal host is rad

[fair jungle]

Radioactive fungus

[grave gulch]

shroom

[fair jungle]

MUSHROOM?!

[heady kestrel]

Oh its way worse than radioactive

It punishes you for killing people

By making very distracting zombies that guilt trip you

[clear delta]

Fungus pangaean must've been a dick

If it wasn't some Idigam that created this host