World of Darkness

[timber talon]

Yes extremely mad

[velvet sparrow]

And uh, how long will that last after a Brujah gets cut in line, botches their frenzy check and kills 12 people in public?

[patent stirrup]

Judging by Cartheg, a few cnwtwerys at least

[timber talon]

The conspirators are notably vampire equivalent of tech bros

So I didn’t say it was a good plan

[velvet sparrow]

Carthage had the Antediluvians/4th gens ruling it, no?

And, notably, was pre-incendiary .50 machine gun

[patent stirrup]

i mean it stil got stomped flat by mortals, and like this was before the technocracy if that winds up still being a thing

[hidden rock]

Just another day at the office for NWO "Tonight, the 'Vampire Tiktok Challenge' takes the world by a storm: young deluded fools, or dangerous young deluded fools? We report, you decide!"

[versed zodiac]

Somehow this is all a goofy ass plot for a VERY fucking selfish vampire to bump off rivals en masse

I can fucking smell it

it's the scent of Fuckery

[hidden rock]

Even if it is not, it probably will be by week 2

[versed zodiac]

I was reading the Second Inquisition sourcebook for 5e and when I read that sometimes vampires leak shit to the 2I to fuck each other overI had this reaction of "that's stupid, don't they realize- wait no, that's on brand"

it's a crab bucket

[velvet sparrow]

That's literally why the Second Inquisition is a thing, no?

(It's not the only reason, but it's one of them)

[velvet sparrow]

"Not me, I'm too smart to get caught by those stupid mortals"

[hidden rock]

A lot of WW's stories are the "I am a Genius! Oh no!" meme writ large.

[velvet sparrow]

And here they are saying that Hubris is a Mage thing :P

[hidden rock]

All sufficiently advanced supernatural template is indistinguishable from magic?

[velvet sparrow]

snrk

[clear delta]

Hubris is a coward's word
Eaten by horrible monster from beyond

[timber talon]

The conspirator does in fact do that

To fuck the camarilla

In this IF I’m reading

[versed zodiac]

pissing on the other sect >>> thinking your actions through

[timber talon]

He’s also a banu haqim diablerist who ate the local prince’s girlfriend so uh

His long term thinking ability may be shot

[versed zodiac]

ah yeah that's a firm sign of brainrot

some vampires have worms for brains

[timber talon]

Pretty sure only reason why he isn’t immediately stomped on is because the Prince is being beckoned

[velvet sparrow]

Oh my god they're doing this in V5?

[versed zodiac]

worms. for. brains.

[timber talon]

Yeah the uh

Controlled breach plan is actually a response to SI

[velvet sparrow]

Like, if this was pre Second Inquisition I'd think they're ultimately fuckin stupid

Oh my god that just makes it so much better

[timber talon]

Truly mad, yes

[versed zodiac]

some people take the quest to become billy big-balls of the bitchy goth brigade a little too far in some places

[timber talon]

He wrote a best seller about himself

As a vampire

[velvet sparrow]

To be fair, so did Dracula

[versed zodiac]

Dracula grindset

[spice abyss]

I have one reaction to the idea

https://tenor.com/view/sacrifice-evil-bosses-shrek-lord-farquaad-some-of-you-may-die-gif-16648565

[versed zodiac]

the biggest threat to the masquerade is the vampires and it's not even close

[timber talon]

Their argument is that the masquerade is going to fail anyways

So the best option is for a controlled breach

[versed zodiac]

literally accelerationists?

masquerade breach accelerationists

[hidden rock]

I mean, techbros. Kinda tracks.

[versed zodiac]

yea

[patent stirrup]

I mean kinda? but like an uncontroled mass breach woud be far worse then a controled one.

[versed zodiac]

but also: this is still clearly an idea that was either cooked up in the first place to screw other vampires or would promptly be used in that way by the first Typical Fuckhead Vampire to realize the potential

[timber talon]

He literally wrote erotic vampire fiction about himself and a camarilla vampire

[velvet sparrow]

Based

[timber talon]

I’m pretty sure that’s a huge masquerade breach but lmao

[versed zodiac]

I wonder if Camarilla elders get so jaded and sick of fledglings because they're old enough to have seen the crab bucket mentality do its thang long enough to determine that most vampires are actually stupid

[hidden rock]

Chuck Tingle is that you?

Sturgeon's law, but vampires

[versed zodiac]

applying Sturgeon's law to people is definitely a way to reach an elitist point of view

[hidden rock]

Considering vampires are made, not born, there's probably selection biais at play somewhere

[patent stirrup]

or a misanthropic one but like eletiest misanthrope is ike the sterotipe of like more then one clan of vamps

[velvet sparrow]

New character idea: Lasombra failgirl

[timber talon]

As a banu haqim he’s a firm believer of “eliminating unworthy kindred”

[velvet sparrow]

And just what qualifies as 'unworthy kindred', might I ask?

[valid merlin]

Anyone they don't like probably

[timber talon]

Shrug but he does have an unusually high opinion of the Sabbat for an anarch

And the people he screws over are 1. A brujah anarch manager of a Catholic hospital running a failing business and creating way too many thinbloods

2. A camarilla ventrue cop running a migrant camp blood pantry

So he’s basically a camarilla vampire except he thinks masquerade should end so he theoretically works with the anarchs

He has the strangest idea of the Sabbat in that he admires them for their “post human morality”

Of course he never actually saw a Sabbat before so

[grave gulch]

i see

but as a werewolf, much like any other lad in wod

you still have pillars right?

it makes it difficult to interact with people but i suppose some are still going to do it

[clear delta]

Pillars?

[grave gulch]

sorry

touchstones

fucking br translation

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah

Also there's no "Curse" anymore idk what that's about

There's delerium but that's it.

[grave gulch]

neat

so unless they go into their wereform they'll just look and feel like any other lad in the room

you been gming werewolf havent you voy?

[mighty zephyr]

werewolf the forsaken yes

[queen heron]

Changeling the Lost's final book is out

[timber talon]

I must be the only one here who played the VTM choice of games haha

Some of them are pretty good

[queen heron]

I was too busy playing the Vampire Battle Royale 😎

||I actually didn't||

[clear delta]

Oh?

What is it?

[timber talon]

“Not every member of Clan Toreador are embraced because of their great beauty or artistic genius. Some of them are embraced for their extensive knowledge of Adobe After Effects.”

—on explaining why a member of clan toreador is the resident tech guy of the Prince

[clear delta]

Oh, this. Hedge stuff
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/473919/the-hedge

[timber talon]

Ooh hedge sorcery

[clear delta]

No it's changeling

[queen heron]

ya, The Hedge

it was a kickstarter thing afaik, way back when

[timber talon]

But it says in the description it involves hedge sorcery

[queen heron]

CofD changelings dip into The Hedge, a psychoactive sort of borderworld

Hedge sorcery is probably a pun on that

literally Hedge sorcery

Changelings books have tried to expand the faerie nonsense they're able to do, OAT added dramaturgy and entitlements

wonder how this differs

[timber talon]

Ahh so it’s Hedge sorcery

Not hedge sorcery

[clear delta]

Dramaturgy?

[arctic bramble]

I should probably finish Parliament of Knives, it was better than the others I've tried (though I did like them, they are just different and weird)

[queen heron]

oh, I actually got it mixed up

Kith and Kin did add Dramaturgy, but I'll need to dig it up to remember what it is

Oak, Ash and Thorn added Baubles - little trinkets you can use to do Dreamshaping in the mortal world

only subtle shifts, and it isn't easy, and each Bauble has a phrase connected to it that it can only dreamshape in relation to

but still!

its also got little one-use fairie trinkets that can be made or sold

and entitlement powers

just ways for faeries to have a little more flexibility

ahhh, Dramaturgy is how this sort of stuff (or Crafted Tokens) is made, and also adds a merit to use 'Dramaturgical objects' to boost contracts, or add clauses you didn't purchase

its also how Goblin Contracts are made, or Goblins upholding their end of a deal in a trade ("Give me your dreams for a week of good fortune") - but thats at the narrative level, theres no mechanics for it

you can also manifest Regalia in the same way a True Fae does for dice tricks, metaphysically steal someones identity for a bit with a huge amount of glamour and a ritual. Curses and more pledge rules, etc

just faerie stuff

and now, I guess, Hedge Sorcery

[grave gulch]

Can supernaturals recognize each other?

Like can vamps smell werewolves and werewolves smell vamps? Does it depend on what kind of vamp/werewolf/mage?

[timber talon]

Don’t think so

But since they have supernatural detection if they know what to look for they might be better at picking up on tells

[velvet sparrow]

Eh kinda

Not innately, although each of them have some way of getting the ability to pick up varying degrees of supernatural-ness

[timber talon]

Yeah

Like vampire with auspex might pick up on werewolf weirdness

Werewolf might be able to have such keen hearing to notice that vampires don’t have heartbeat

Etc

[velvet sparrow]

Werewolves can sniff out Wyrm-creatures, which vampires (mostly) are, Vampires and Mages can get Aura Reading,

[rare swallow]

Wraiths get lifesight and deathsight which can also be used to identify other supernaturals

[velvet sparrow]

Aura reading is I think the one that sees like, the most? All the major splats can be identified with it, and it's also useful for more than that

Unsure about life/deathsight

[rare swallow]

Lifesight is basically aura reading

Deathsight lets you see the Oblivion within things

Which mechanically translates to being able to identify weaknesses, illnesses, etc

I imagine it displays a vampire's heart like a big old black spot on their chest for example (because they're walking corpses and dead)

[queen heron]

CofD played around with each supernatural having an “aura” early on

but it was kinda dropped

[rare swallow]

I mean oWoD does that
Changelings have rainbow auras
Vampire auras are faded
Ghouls have faded spots
Wraiths have dim auras
Mages/Sorcerers have sparkly auras
I don't remember what shapeshifters have

[queen heron]

but that aura is-

yeah I was gonna say its not quite just vibes

Auras’swhat vampire uses for the predatory aura they can manifest, or Mages and their Nimbus - a kind of toggle

[rare swallow]

Also vampire blood mages have auras too but that only comes up in one Tremere Auspex combination discipline

Those have a red halo

[queen heron]

closest to that sort of one-size fits all supernatural detector in CofD is probably Soul Marks? Death 1 spell

lets you look at the soul, and implies or outright says you see something different if the souls all wack

Vamps still have Auspex and Aura powers too

[timber talon]

Yeah

[rare swallow]

I think the Maeghar/Kiasyd bloodline of vampires also have basically a sense that allows them to taste non undead magic (so changelings, mages, werewolves, but not vampires and wraiths)

[timber talon]

And I’m sure some Tremere warlocks can use blood sorcery or alchemy to develop tests for werewolves and magical creatures

Blood tests*

[rare swallow]

I mean sure but they have Auspex so why go to the lengths of collecting blood

[queen heron]

style points

call that Vampire Drip

[rare swallow]

Lol

[queen heron]

So if 5th edition doesnt want to bring demons in for the theological angle

is Caine still a known guy in V5?

[queen heron]

This is actually responding to something someone said in the Hunter the Parenting chat but here works too

Is V5s creation myth as explicit - does what happened to Caine involve christian theology?

[timber talon]

Sabbat still call themselves the sword of Caine in v5

So he’s known at the very least

[velvet sparrow]

I think V5 just went "Is it true who knows?"

[mighty zephyr]

The Book of Nod is a philosophical piece that has been pointed out to have little actual theological backing

[timber talon]

This is how you get people like a rando anarch who has never actually seen or talked with a Sabbat before but is fascinated by their religious text as being an example of “post mortal moral philosophy”

[mighty zephyr]

But yeah like

It's no longer a hard answer

of "yes it's Caine"

And personally if I play VTM I'd fucking go whole hog

"You think there's only been fucking 13 GENERATIONS OF VAMPIRES???"

"In 2000+ years?"

[timber talon]

Cyclic renewal of vampirism

[velvet sparrow]

Well, there's a few things going into that

Oh shit sorry for the ping

[mighty zephyr]

I will never forgive you

[velvet sparrow]

I'm sorry it was an accident :(

[mighty zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/goodbye-disintegrate-half-life2-hl2-gif-23941439

[queen heron]

”oh of course not! The first three were already around by then, so its just the 4th onwards.
Realistically its more like ten generations in 2000+ years”

[timber talon]

Let us lament the inevitable freeing of the soul

[mighty zephyr]

forreal though I don't get pinged by replies

[velvet sparrow]

Oh I might have successfully turned it off then?

I don't know I'm kind of out of it right now

[timber talon]

What’s banu haqim’s role in the camarilla?

[velvet sparrow]

Ok but back to why there's only been 13 generations: Because until like, the 90s if a vampire embraced past like, 14th generation it just... didn't work.

[timber talon]

Vampire assassins?

[velvet sparrow]

Like, in Dark Ages, 13th generation weren't even Full Vampires, they were Thinbloods

[timber talon]

I thought it was because for religious reasons the Camarilla kill vampires above certain generations

[velvet sparrow]

(Actually I'm unsure if that is the case, they might just be considered Thin Bloods and therefore killed?)

[mighty zephyr]

That's not the point

[velvet sparrow]

I don't think anybody does that?

[mighty zephyr]

Also the Camrilla totally does that

[velvet sparrow]

Oh wait I'm dumb

Above not below

Yeah no they totally do that

[mighty zephyr]

The point is saying that only 13 generations of vampires can exist is fucking ridiculous considering how vampires always seem to constantly make bad decisions

And that there only being a single progenitor in the Levant is likewise incredibly silly

[velvet sparrow]

It's a combination of physical impossibility, being hunted down for religious/political reasons, and because if you're an old vampire you've had plenty of opportunities to Diablerize someone younger than you, but lower generation

And also because like, who wants to keep track of 300 generation of vampires that's not conductive to the story that Vampire wants to tell?

[mighty zephyr]

again

missing the point

[velvet sparrow]

I'm not sure what the point is?

[clear delta]

Something something mystical numbers

[mighty zephyr]

It's having my character call bullshit on it

in universe

[velvet sparrow]

Oh

Sorry

[mighty zephyr]

Saying the Caine story is bullshit and that some bullshit blood magic probably just happened.

[queen heron]

and its pretty easy to see why vampire orgs would want a strong unified myth

The truth there matters less than its utility

[rare swallow]

One of my characters calls bullshit because they're big ol pagan

And the idea that it's all a curse from god to the first murderer is stupid :p

[keen bluff]

y’all

I might be playing VtM soon

Call me Ahab cuz I’m finally about to get that white whale

[velvet sparrow]

Woooo!!!

[keen bluff]

However, this comes at the horrifying cost of having to create a single PC out of many, many concepts

truly the monkeys paw has curled

[orchid void]

same as it ever was

[orchid void]

you must begin the vibe threshing

[hybrid dock]

the vibe thresh

[patent talon]

One day I'll play CofD again one day!!!

[mighty zephyr]

There is officially only like

2 or 3 sessions left of cowboy werewolf

They're going up that mountain

[orchid void]

Goin up the country

[versed zodiac]

brain: here's a dream about a Caliban ripping the heads off of Black Spiral Dancers
me: the fuck

[clear delta]

Cool!

Hey, does ascension do something cool with dream/mental realms? Think that's the high umbra?

[velvet sparrow]

Believe so, yes

[mighty zephyr]

Yea

[grave gulch]

Give them a pet frog

Named steve

[candid shadow]

are there any examples of mages who are hunters?

[heady kestrel]

which universe and hunting what

Banishers kinda count

[patent stirrup]

do you mean like the spat book, or just vampie hunters? We do know that like in oWoD True Mages don't relay get any other form of powers. but also there are some editions whare a mage caneasly turn a vamp into a lawn chair that will combust at sunrise

[velvet sparrow]

"Easily"

(It's not easy)

[patent stirrup]

I mean matter 3 and one seccess was all it use to take before the rules changed to stop it

[velvet sparrow]

Okay that is easy god damn

[patent stirrup]

yeah it used to be as easy to change a vampres shape as it was to change the shape of stick in first edition mage

[clear delta]

Outfit made of vampires

Replace every cell of your body with a transformed vampire

[queen heron]

Vampire of Theseus

[queen heron]

for a specific pregen character, Awakening's Nameless and Accursed has a tremere, Morana, whos kinda a mage-hunter

She finds places under supernatural threat and preys on the predators, offering salvation at the cost of souls. She has no qualms about creating crises she can resolve if that means respecting the Vedmak practice of collecting souls for service.```

the original legacy got slurped into the Tremere

[mighty zephyr]

Tremere in Awakening WERE superlative monster hunters

[queen heron]

sometimes they still do the community protecting and ghost-hunting, but always for the payment of souls

still kinda dicks about it! but yeah

they were always hungry

Mages join the Tremere when they want to test themselves against beings of great power and take that power by force, they’re interested in delving into the Mysteries of the soul and the subtle Arcana, or they wish to hunt monsters and Reaper Legacies who consume the souls of humanity.

their OG core beliefs were "Shaking the Boundaries", "Break the Gods" and "Contempt for the Inhuman"

[patent talon]

I should go back to my reformed Tremere write up...

Also think of a better name than "Reformed Tremere"

[clear delta]

What lwgacy were the vedmak?

[versed zodiac]

here are people who died
here are the locations where they died
where do you want to investigate
"let's ignore the places they died and investigate their houses"
i can't with my players sometimes

[rare swallow]

I am becoming Changeling pilled

[heady kestrel]

Dreaming or Lost

[rare swallow]

Dreaming, haven't touched any CofD really

[queen heron]

The Keepers of Vedet were a Slavic Legacy devoted to helping the virtuous dead rest, and protecting Sleepers from angry ghosts, spirits, and similar malefic beings. Wandering Vedma (women) and Vedmak (men and non-binary practitioners) made themselves quietly known to the communities throughout Eastern Europe and Central Asia. This earned them cautious respect, as common people supposed these “witchkeepers” drew power from the devil, but somehow managed to twist it to the service of good.

[clear delta]

Why did the tremere nom them?

[clear delta]

What is it like? I'm a Lost gal

[queen heron]

Tremere nom any legacy they consider infringing on their turf: investigating the Soul

House Vedmak is considered the largest house

but its noted that some houses as basically just a mentor-student relationship, or evena single practitioner dedicated to its secrets

[rare swallow]

Honestly kinda hard to describe how it's like
It's definitely strange, but it's sparking a lot of creativity in me in a way other oWoD splats haven't

[velvet sparrow]

Fitting that it's Changeling that's sparking creativity, eh?

[rare swallow]

Yes :p

But also like

Look at this

I found out this exists

[velvet sparrow]

[rare swallow]

It's so cool

[queen heron]

found a Seer grimoire laying around

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443933972603600906/1218973401599840296/37197EFD-7F99-418D-93D4-5FC0542D4AF1.jpeg?ex=66099c72&is=65f72772&hm=779ee36cb779196d440f30e9afdfbc917e4b7cf546784c289bbd4959876e6767&

[heady kestrel]

Holy shit these are seer rotes

[versed zodiac]

I’m liking Mordenkainen’s Bad Takes

That’s a good spell

[hybrid dock]

Oh my god

[spice abyss]

nullify union

My god

[heady kestrel]

this person is part of the Hegemony

[orchid void]

Mammon,,,

[heady kestrel]

would also make sense

[patent talon]

Ray of fucking deforestation

[velvet sparrow]

Vampire The Masquerade is a Mafia game

[versed zodiac]

clan giovanni

[velvet sparrow]

Everyone else too

[clear delta]

I mean, that's the intent, right?

[orchid void]

I mean yeah

The masquerade is undead omertà

[timber talon]

Camarilla

[orchid void]

Yeah and they’re the majority (unfortunately)

But no yeah both WoDs are very detective pulp

That’s why my mage is an awful detective

[timber talon]

But is it really detective pulp if you are yourself a member of the undead omertà

[orchid void]

Yes

[sacred viper]

Yes

[orchid void]

Venn diagram is a circle

[patent talon]

I always thought CofD would be a good fit for a Black Lagoon-style campaign, at least hitting the "underworld action and politics" beats

[keen bluff]

So maybe I'm just quick to judge, but I'm starting to feel just a twinge apprehensive about this Vampire game I was potentially looking to join. Just like, kinda getting some weird vibes from the GM asking if I'm okay with "going down that dark road of playing a vampire" and responding to a question about general tone by describing their game as "dark with me putting you in situations that make you question how your kindred would react"; something about it all is rubbing me the wrong way

[mighty zephyr]

I mean personally that feels very standard

For anyone doing personal horror

[keen bluff]

I've explained that I'm pretty familiar with VtM and also horror games, so still getting... I guess what strikes me as overly obvious statements about what Vampire is like as though they were exceptional concerns me just a little

Like a faint impression of potential melodrama?

I dunno, maybe I'm the dickhead here

[mighty zephyr]

I mean vampire is pretty melodramatic

On a good day

If the ST isn't like purposefully overstepping boundaries this doesn't seem really anything to be apprehensive about

From what scant information given

[keen bluff]

Fair enough, there is a little bit more to why I'm feeling this way but nothing substantial enough to relay secondhand I think. I guess I'll wait it out and see how we interact later; he(?) wants to meet soon at our FLGS to talk about the game some though I've told him I don't really have any other questios that wouldn't be better served by like, a brief primer or just playing

[orchid void]

Introduce em to lines n veils if you want a safety tool that’s hard to disagree with

Im p sure my acquaintance wrote a bunch of safety tools for a recent vtm edition

so maybe bring those to ya st

It’s always good to just bring up tools the books do

[upbeat lily]

I need a clan cruse that's just rotting from the inside out

[clear delta]

Samedi

Not inside out

But rots them

[fair jungle]

Me and my group is planning to play werewolf sometime in the future and while reading the 5e manual we came into a comclusion

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/669025110916857857/1219503546433671259/image.png?ex=660b8a2e&is=65f9152e&hm=29211e3f66b751c3390d5d2c91d1390c8b74b2dd1008fc0c6159bbf11298607a&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/669025110916857857/1219503742957781042/fy61gvp6pzb71.png?ex=660b8a5d&is=65f9155d&hm=f69668b2d51c8a4ab35556af3f2b1681cdabc70e39b2e9469d46188afeaf3d0c&

[hybrid dock]

Holy shit

[clear delta]

I don't think there are characters that are shirtless and wear skirts

[timber talon]

Are werewolves very bad at stealth

Would a werewolf die if you shove a live grenade down its mouth

[mighty zephyr]

No, some of them are very very very very good

[mighty zephyr]

No.

Unless the grenade was silver

[timber talon]

Huh

[mighty zephyr]

But werewolves in both settings don't take aggravated damage from explosions and require EXTREME bodily destruction to kill

without their banes

[versed zodiac]

werewolves are STUPIDLY good at fighting

it's almost like they were designed for it

[clear delta]

Yeah, a forsaken werewolf, in gauru form, regenerates away all non-aggravates damage. You need to ruin their tissues and organs for it to stick

Oh, explosions aren't enough? I've been comparing them to resident evil monsters like Mr X, guess it doesn't fit as much as I thought

[mighty zephyr]

Forsaken specifically has "Werewolves don't take aggravated damage from extreme bodily destruction, only their banes, supernatural powers, or rollover"

And in W5 at least there's a rule that unless burnt, killed with silver, or bodily destroyed, a werewolf will EVENTUALLY regenerate

[fair jungle]

BE the skirt werewolf

[timber talon]

So unless they are like, vaporized, they regenerate?

[mighty zephyr]

yeah

[fair jungle]

Or crushed

[mighty zephyr]

I'd probably run it as like

[timber talon]

What if just their brain was destroyed

[mighty zephyr]

"If your upper half is intact, you'll probably regenerate at some point"

[fair jungle]

holyshit is a dragon ball z villain

[timber talon]

Would a werewolf regenerate a new brain

[mighty zephyr]

Depends on the ST in question

I'm half-and-half

[timber talon]

Would be kinda funny

[versed zodiac]

werewolves are like

Regeneradores

they're fucking unkillable

If you're just some guy and don't have access to silver weaponry, you don't have a prayer of doing more than momentarily incapacitating one

[timber talon]

I remember wondering how the fuck Ninez killed a werewolf in bloodlines

[mighty zephyr]

I don't think he ever actually killed it

just survived the encounter

[velvet sparrow]

No he killed it

[timber talon]

Or how he managed to escape when he got carried off INSIDE the mouth of a werewolf

[mighty zephyr]

Nah you have a chance

[velvet sparrow]

If you side with the Anarchs you go to his house and he's there, with a severed werewolf head on the table

[versed zodiac]

I mean

Rawkit lawnchair

what else though

[mighty zephyr]

A group of hunters could take out a werewolf with decent prep

[versed zodiac]

yeah I'm talkin' bout one man one werewolf

[mighty zephyr]

Then yes you're pretty fucked

But Hunters are never really alone

You can also like

not kill it

but severely fuck it over

if you're sniping it from a distance

[clear delta]

If you have a bunch of rockets and a launcher

[mighty zephyr]

The main danger a werewolf faces is like

Being in public

because they can't shape shift

[patent talon]

The classic Hit A Werewolf With A Truck gambit

[velvet sparrow]

Grain Silo

[mighty zephyr]

World's most successful hunter

[timber talon]

Crush a werewolf with a heavy door

[patent talon]

Explosive decompression a werewolf

I'm going to one place not corrupted by the Uratha...SPACE!

[timber talon]

Why are werewolves at war with the moon

[mighty zephyr]

is this a joke or actual question

[timber talon]

I remember big D mentioning something about their ancient war with the moon or something

But I might also be sleep deprived

[mighty zephyr]

I do not remember that line by heart

but werewolves love the moon

[timber talon]

Oh, their “compact” with the moon

I just misheard

I think I heard combat instead

[mighty zephyr]

Ah gotcha

Yeah Werewolves in both settings are empowered by Luna

[clear delta]

Though the Pure from Forsaken hate the moon

[mighty zephyr]

yeah

And flay the Auspice from themselves.

[timber talon]

I see

[heady kestrel]

This is a very proud line of mine

Using grain silos to kill werewolves by trapping them in the grain then igniting it is a very powerful takedown strat

It traps them while they burn

[timber talon]

Are werewolves espescially vulnerable to fire

Or is it just one of the things that can actually kill them

(Like are they more flammable than a regular human)

[versed zodiac]

They are not unusually flammable

But regular amounts of flammable is just fine for killing them dead

[timber talon]

Makes sense

So they won’t like burst into flames from a road flare

But can they be intimidated by the flame like low humanity vampires?

[rare swallow]

Fire is weird in WoD, at least oWoD. Everyone takes aggravated damage but can soak it (even though aggravated damage usually can't be soaked), except vampires I'm pretty sure.

I know this isn't what you're asking, but it is an oddity

Correction

Vampires can only with armour or fortitude
Everyone else can use stamina to soak fire

I think

Basically: Fire is dangerous y'all. It's just slightly more dangerous to Vampires

[hidden rock]

Yeah in CoD fire was Lethal except for Vamps because obvs.

Then again CoD hated Aggr with a passion

[rare swallow]

Tbh some of the splats in 20th have way too many agg sources

It kinda gets silly. I really feel like agg should be left to a supernatural being's specific weakness rather than… multiple sources

[hidden rock]

Again, I think CoD only gave unconditional Aggr to some very rare powers (and then Mages, because Mage biais is real, sheeple!)

[rare swallow]

I see

I think the oWoD splat with the least amount of aggravated damage in general is Wraith, or rather it has the least likelihood of you coming across it in combat

[mighty zephyr]

Werewolves can do it default

But also

Highly skilled martial artists can do 1 point

On a hit

[hidden rock]

Oh right, in full fury mode, right?

[mighty zephyr]

No

At will

[rare swallow]

You have
Balefires which are just normal fire rules but spooky underworld cold fire. Or just fires if you're using Embody to manifest yourself in the living world;
Soulfire/soulfire crystals (condensed Pathos/Angst, though the latter has a different name I can't recall rn);
Stygian Steel, which is super rare.
((And then the usual Fangs and Claws of Vampires and Werewolves, but you rarely come across these, and they have to be able to touch you, which rarely happens.))

[mighty zephyr]

Against humans, wolves, or werewolves

[hidden rock]

In CoD?

[mighty zephyr]

Ye

They do so by devouring the flesh as they bite

Which is against the Oath

So you CAN do it if you want DRAMA

[hidden rock]

Oh right that explains why I can't remember

[rare swallow]

Lol

[mighty zephyr]

It's an aside thing

[rare swallow]

Listing the thing, I noticed it's less about there being less agg damage sources, but rather the frequency of coming across them, in Wraith

[mighty zephyr]

Also in w5

Werewolves take agg from fire

And are especially flammable

Iiirc

[rare swallow]

I mean, everyone in 20th takes agg from fire

But the especially flammable thing makes sense

[timber talon]

Vampires also have to roll courage around fire sources right

Otherwise they have to run away?

[hidden rock]

Yeah, Fear frenzy check

[queen heron]

I think CoD fire sometimes does aggravated, if its hot enough

size + intensity is measured

Electricity is lethal, but just starts reaching absurd levels

I think it tops out at 14?

which is basically doing aggravated

[mighty zephyr]

Electricity starts as bashing

Then turns lethal

But it's an absurd amount of bashing

Like 10 bashing if you're on a direct line

[queen heron]

that was it yeah

not technically lethal, but

you’re taking lethal

[fair jungle]

Oh yeah, you watching the premiere?

No but yeah, i heard there were some controversies on W5, what it is? All i know is that WoD kinda cut the native american ties of the lore

[rare swallow]

The only one I recall is one of the artists just stealing the face of a New Zealander native activist and just slightly changing the tattoos on his body? That was before the release

I don't remember his name but he's an important political figure

[fair jungle]

...Ooooooh i see

[rare swallow]

There's more but that's one I remember

[fair jungle]

At least is not AI art

[grave gulch]

What if i was actually an A.I in disguise

[orchid void]

well it’d be to early

Anyway

[grave gulch]

What u mean

[queen heron]

no thats Demon

different gameline

[grave gulch]

Demon? Where? No demons here

[orchid void]

oh i should post my demon

where did it go

Oh here it is

This is the Liar :3

i should go rebuild it,,,

it was a weird jellyfish freak pretending to be an OL for giggles

bc sometimes a lie is a funny one like “i love my family” and “I work for the government” or “my friends won’t hurt you”

[queen heron]

my demon was a moth-shaped gaggle of eyes and wings

it sat at the head of a cult of artists, trying to use them to gnaw into the Astral

(the fun part was how "I'm just using these people for my own ends, and don't really care about them." was the lie)

[orchid void]

to make Hell?

[timber talon]

Does the world of darkness imply the existence of the world of light

[orchid void]

no

bc supposed to be a darker our world

Ours is the light one

[mighty zephyr]

That's where final fantasy takes place

[queen heron]

yup!

They wanted to escape into the thoughts on their followers, build a nest of their dreams and adoration

they won't admit they've grown to love the attention itself

I forget their exact vice, but it was something hooking onto caring too much

they wouldn't leave someone in their in-group behind, even when they really should

unwilling to make small sacrifices when 'necessary', uncomfortable with admitting that

[fair jungle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h1U-_JFAS8 oh yeah since we have Hunter the parenting fans, is this video a good intro for WoD?

[timber talon]

Toreador bane is that they are appearance obsessed right

[fair jungle]

ya

[timber talon]

So if you put a mirror in front of them they’d stare into it for minutes?

[fair jungle]

exagerating it, ya

it still canon that the first Nosferato was a Toreador?

[timber talon]

I heard it’s a common myth that nosferatu were cursed with horrid appearance because their founder was appearance obsessed

But nobody knows for sure if it’s true?

Some nosferatu look quite good though Big D’s right

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/whitewolf/images/e/e7/Corliss_Nos_1_1.png/revision/latest?cb=20221011215959

[fair jungle]

Yeah some make it work

[fair jungle]

Like, dude, you saying if I walk around at night looking like that they will call the police? That's BS

[timber talon]

They’d assume you were a cosplayer

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/whitewolf/images/e/e8/Qui_(Parliament_of_Knives).png/revision/latest/smart/width/386/height/259?cb=20221113044111 also a canonical nosferatu

Doesn’t really count though since uh he was an ||experimental subject of tzimisce flesh crafting to see if they can make a nos look like a regular human||

[fair jungle]

No fucking way

[fair jungle]

oooooh yeah that explains it

[clear delta]

Oh, I love astral stuff

Ow much stuff does demon the descent have for interacting with the astral?

[midnight grotto]

Generally, yeah

[upbeat lily]

I have a hard time believing that

[fair jungle]

Thank ya

[clear delta]

Pangloss: this here is as good as it gets

[queen heron]

pretty much just the move to rip your way inside

though most mind affecting stuff would probably show up in a specific persons head

specific astral stuff is what the cipher is for

[little light]

They re-invented plastic surgery

[timber talon]

The price is that the tzimisce ||had to tuck away a lot of flesh while flesh crafting so he’s got a pretty large scar at the side of his head that constantly aches||

Doesn’t seem to really bother him considering he’s the fucking Sheriff

Who is also the actual sheriff of the town

[fair jungle]

Kevin is going up in the world

Also, does Werewolfs use weapons or they just don't bother because claw is best?

[rare swallow]

Idk if you read the blorbs of them talking about WoD being a dark reflection of our world it really do feel like we're becoming more and more like WoD - the fantastical elements nowadays 😭

[fair jungle]

I mean, W5 is basically saying "So the world is fucked, congratu-fucking-lations, global warming is happening"

And-
And honestly, yeah , is easy to feel it, like
Brazil is not having fun

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/nacional/calor-sufocante-com-623oc-rio-renova-recorde-de-sensacao-termica/ 63 cencius of Thermal sensation? N-
Not fun

[clear delta]

It's 40 celsius often here and it sucks

Can't imagine 60

[fair jungle]

Thanks global warming

Garou you fucked it up

[timber talon]

Maybe the void engineers are right

[rare swallow]

Yeah it's so hot here

It's supposed to not be summer anymore 😭

But also like look at this paragraph from Changeling: the Dreaming

Just hits way too close to home

[fair jungle]

the WHAT

[rare swallow]

The concept of the technocracy is still hilarious to me

[timber talon]

I love that void engineers are so convinced that the outer sphere is toxic

That they need protective gear in an environment most mage would be fine just walking around naked in

Like the surface of Europa

[fair jungle]

oh god so the planet war with portals is real

[timber talon]

And they still need protective equipment even if they actually physically see another mage walking around without it

[fair jungle]

What is the name of Mercenary Garou? The ones that said 'fuck gaia, MONEY'

[timber talon]

I think Europa in this case is the changeling realm

Not the moon

Unless they are the same thing

[fair jungle]

Would this imply that vampires don't have souls?
Or is just the book jabbing at them

[spice abyss]

So Vamps do have a soul. It's just tattered and barely attached.

[versed zodiac]

au contraire, vampires provably have souls

[spice abyss]

It's why Vamps can drink it.

[versed zodiac]

edible souls

[fair jungle]

oooh so the soul is like
Corrupted and shattered

[versed zodiac]

being a vampire is bad for the health of your soul

both in the moment of embrace and also longterm

[fair jungle]

That's why is better to just let the sun take you if you get bitten

[versed zodiac]

the absolute state of fuzzballs

[fair jungle]

wut

[versed zodiac]

a jest about how this is what werewolves would opine

[fair jungle]

I mean
Hunters too right

[versed zodiac]

depends on the hunter

[fair jungle]

What

[versed zodiac]

wdym what, hunters are hardly monolithic

some of them are cooler with some supernaturals than others

[fair jungle]

Ok you got a point, i can 100% see someone going "I WILL JOIN CHAOS TO DEFEAT CHAOS" but then is just used by chaos
I mean vampires

The reedemers yes

[timber talon]

Big D for instance seem to believe that vampires can be redeemed

In opposition to Dorne who thinks vampires are subhumans deserving of contempt

[fair jungle]

I mean yes, but one thing is redeeming , another is becoming one to fight them

[timber talon]

Oh

[versed zodiac]

Jack Garland grindset

[fair jungle]

Is that Dead Weight from DMCV?

[versed zodiac]

become the monster you swore to destroy
fuck with it super hard

[fair jungle]

oh

[timber talon]

There are some vampires who do work with SI

[versed zodiac]

It's never as simple as it seems like it should be

[timber talon]

To exterminate the rest of their kind out of belief that’s actually for the best

[versed zodiac]

Some vampires fuck with hunters, some hunters are like "yeah vampires are w/e but we absolutely cannot let a fucking werewolf exist in this area", sometimes the vampires and the werewolves team up on the hunters despite being spiritually opposed

[queen heron]

Theres gotta be difference in what hunters consider ‘supernatural’ too

[fair jungle]

I think hunters are such wildly varied is hard to say what 'all' hunters agree on

[versed zodiac]

It's never just one thing and it's never as simple as "werewolves hate vampires because vampires are exactly what werewolves were created to prevent" even though the second half of that is almost certainly true

[timber talon]

Sometimes hunters kill a ventrue sheriff who eat migrants, sometimes hunters hunt the local humanity 10 Malkavian who live in the sewer subsisting on rats

[fair jungle]

The book itself say that, yes, while werewolfs try to help, they are fucking inbeciles that can only cause violence
And we don't need more violence right now

Ok just to know I am not blowing things out of the water, how many werewolfs would it take to kill Adam Smasher?

Adam don't have silver stuff

[versed zodiac]

like one

one in Crinos form

[timber talon]

Just one

Yeah

[versed zodiac]

maybe two if you had to be 100% sure

those cyberpunk guns do be hitting pretty different

[fair jungle]

holyshit

[queen heron]

does this mean no sandevistan

I feel like he could take one with that

[versed zodiac]

sandevistan does not give him the advantage you'd hope for, werewolves are murder blenders

and largely immune to most of Adam's shit

[fair jungle]

So 1 werewolf would be the Adam Smasher for a Vampire group
Damn

[timber talon]

1 werewolf would be "RUN FUCK RUN" moment for a vampire group

so yes

[versed zodiac]

Vampires can kill werewolves

it's possible

but, like, in groups and with advance preparation

[fair jungle]

The hell do they fight against,
Yeah evil spirits, possessed humans and armies n stuff but
hell
how you balance that

[timber talon]

yeah

[versed zodiac]

and a really good plan

[timber talon]

if they have silvered weapons

[versed zodiac]

modernity primarily

[fair jungle]

The new silver

[timber talon]

well some werewolves are on the computah

and they tend to be more socially well adjusted

[fair jungle]

yes

[timber talon]

hmm

glasswalkers as tech priests? 😛

[fair jungle]

oh my god

Tech priests werewolfs

[timber talon]

MACHINE SPIRIT

[fair jungle]

GAIA GAVE US THE OMNISSIAH

But this time they use the technology for renewable energy and ways to make big plantations without fucking everything around them

And deadly Helldivers 2 Tesla Coils

[fair jungle]

One of the Tenets of the Litany is not eating human flesh...
But I remember something about human hearts? Or it was in Skyrim?

[mighty zephyr]

Believe that's skyrim

[fair jungle]

oh dang

[fair jungle]

It looks like two dads coming to see their daughter concent.
They don't like the music, but are trying their best
The dog likes it at least

[mighty zephyr]

https://youtu.be/8VaIfNfCJYQ?si=XUVmF15JZ3qOYnQC

[orchid void]

im quoting VtM 1e?

[rare swallow]

Ah fair

I've never seen anything before 20th, sorry

[orchid void]

i started on a copy of VtM my dad won at gencon,,,,

im Withered,,,,

[mighty zephyr]

which edition and how is it c:

[orchid void]

first

in his storage unit?

[mighty zephyr]

Oh I meant "how is it" as like

"how's the read"

"what information is now in your skull

[orchid void]

oh

it’s pure poison i dumped into my skull at age ten?

my cranium is acid-etched

oWoD is Psychotronica

[mighty zephyr]

Amazing.

[orchid void]

the first thing i learned to do was min max a brujah

the second thing was that The Crow rules

(i had yet to see the crow but the vibes on masquerade are thick)

[fair jungle]

So for skill specialization how you usually runs it?

Because I never played the
Tabletop persay, I mostly read the lore, played the 🅱️ideo game and Hunter the parenting

[grave gulch]

[fair jungle]

And sometimes it seems that skills overlap or are extremely specific

[fair jungle]

yes?o3o

[grave gulch]

Does the 2nd inquisition cover up supernatural stuff that happens?

Or only if they had something to do with it?

[fair jungle]

Also about Mentor, how do you implement on your game? Are they essentially plot movers? Free points if you feel the player will need?

[fair jungle]

'Some suggestions for alternative progression rewards
include:
0 Increase a Skill at the end of a given session, or an
Attribute at the end of every second session
0 Take a new Gift or Rite at the end of a given session,
after having a fruitful interaction with an appropriate
spirit
0 Increase Renown at the end of a story in which the
pack or individual demonstrates the virtues of that
Renown'

Sorry for making so many questions XP
But what is the general opinions on alternative xp like this one?

[fair jungle]

When you see the news of a new passed law that will fuck up the biggest forest of your country and go "Oh that would be an actual perfect plot for werewolf!... depressing"

[clear delta]

Yeah. Looking at climate destabilization, you could show a distorted spirit world, ravaged by the alterations

[fair jungle]

Oh yeah absolutely and add to the hopelessness of the setting

[clear delta]

Oh, could do a cool broken sky

[fair jungle]

broken sky?

[clear delta]

Yeah. Have cracks or wounds in it

[fair jungle]

oooh! True

[clear delta]

Maybe make it look like diseased tissue

[fair jungle]

Nurgle Garden, got it

Or meat space in Darkest Dungeon 2, yeah would be cool

[clear delta]

Maybe ectoplasmic glass shards on the ground. Looking through them, you see memories of how things used to be.

[fair jungle]

.
That would make things even more depressing I love it~!

[clear delta]

Using spiritual, ghostly and astral stuff (which in owod, are all parts of the umbra anyway) to depict all the history, memories and sorrows of a place can be very fun and cool

Oooh, desperate spirits of dead/dying species.
Streets and public places that are now avoided due to the heat and how unfriendly in general cities became to people (due to the design, cars getting favoured, pollution, low support for public things), so you can really depict how abandoned and melancholic they became

[fair jungle]

and by session 4 we are breaking irl trucks that are destroying our local forest because we got too pissed

[grave gulch]

I want a weremoose

[timber talon]

Do you think the taxidermied cat wearing a headphone is a werecat

[mighty zephyr]

Behemoose

[grave gulch]

[clear delta]

Oops

[mighty zephyr]

https://twitter.com/Eliphusz/status/1770945746864345593

Eliphas (commissions closed) (@Eliphusz) on X

Werewolf pack

Twitter · Mar 21, 2024, 10:49 PM

[fair jungle]

Is kitten's grandma /j

[fair jungle]

She does
indeed
Does the awoo

Also reading the 'regeneration' section is
Crazy

like
This alone is silly "Any damage not caused by fire or silver, or that is other-
wise stated as doing Aggravated damage to werewolves,
is considered Superficial, regardless of form"

But then Werewolfs need to tank literal tanks and mega chimera weresharks so it makes sense

[clear delta]

Give people a way to depict social issues in a poetic and cool way. And that's what happens

[fair jungle]

As it should

"COMPOSURE:

••••• You probably wouldn’t have paid $44B for Twitter."

still funny

[heady kestrel]

So

I have been thinking

About redemption arcs for the various mage antagonists

And came to the following conclusion

My official tier list for most to least redeemable mage villans who are mages

Rapt
Liches
Banishers
Reapers
Scelestus
Seers

[timber talon]

What are seers like

[heady kestrel]

They worship the fascism gods for wealth and power

“If You can’t beat ‘em join em” with the tyrant demiurges

The reason I put them so low is that seers tend to know what they are doing, and it does fuck them up, but also it doesn’t fuck them up enough that I can imagine someone leaving about it

Like there is plenty of room for angsty, sad seers of the throne who don’t like being seers

But the way the seers work I see those guys most likely staying in the seers of the throne and justifying their actions with the fact they feel shitty about them

Like seers are the types of guys to say

“I hate to fight you, I know your in the right” but then sigh and draw their magic sword and say “But a man must do what he must”

[midnight grotto]

yeah in comparison some Banishers just awoke wrong

[heady kestrel]

So, I have been playing a lot of Glitch, so I have idea about Banisher redemption arcs

A guy realizing that responding to his pain with hate isn’t actually working and is just making his life worse

[clear delta]

Sellouts to the jailers of humanity, gods who represent components of fascism and warped the universe and its history.
The previous version of the universe allowed their rise

[timber talon]

So they ceased to exist in the current version of the universe?

[heady kestrel]

No they are the gods of this universe now

[timber talon]

Oh

The fascism gods won?

[heady kestrel]

Yeah

They won

[fair jungle]

Another point for Chaos

[heady kestrel]

Unless your a Silver Ladder member

Then it’s just

the war isn’t over until it’s over we building the Tower of Babel again boys

get up to heaven and stab em a bunch

[clear delta]

No, they keep existing. They turned universe into their kingdom, abd our prison.
There are remains of the previous universe

[fair jungle]

I bet things just gonna get worst when Mage 5e releases

[valid merlin]

Seemingly didn't work out so well for the Oracles last time 😛

[heady kestrel]

I’m sure they are doing great

[timber talon]

M5 when

[clear delta]

Oh, I missed the other posts because of bad internet.
Contradictory ruins made from multiple versions of the other universe mixing with the history of ours

Dave said the Fall happened, is happening, will jappen

I dunno if he compared it to a scar/wound in the universe, but feels apt

[timber talon]

I think we should build a new universe

With hookers and blackjack this time

[fair jungle]

What you mean, is already here! /j

[clear delta]

Paint a new universe, eh?

[timber talon]

[heady kestrel]

Alright follow up posts

Rapt and Liches aren’t inherently bad they are just completly alien to human morality

Reapers are really really bad, but like it’s an addiction metaphor so if they get off the soul juice they could probably start making things better for themselves and others

[clear delta]

Not cloud infinite

[heady kestrel]

Cloud Infinite has like, a super high level cope that makes them hard to redeem yeah

[versed zodiac]

Cloud infinite?

Cloud can do an infinite combo?

[heady kestrel]

A Reaper organization that steals people souls through the internet

[fair jungle]

If Reapers are associated with that, what do they call the ones that guide souls to the afterlife? Psychopomps?

[heady kestrel]

Mages don’t do that shit, talk to the sin eaters for a healthy relationship with ghosts

The psychopomp is actually one of the Exarchs

[clear delta]

What? Thought they networked souls of their victims to use for extra processing and help with spells, leavinh their souls "worn out"

[heady kestrel]

Oh right the internet stuff is a metaphor

Sorry it has been a while

[fair jungle]

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Psychopomp_(DTD)?so=search ok it seems we have the smae name for different stuff

[clear delta]

?
The moros text in the 2e corebook has a mage fixing a car and helping a ghost move on

[heady kestrel]

Sorry that was intended as a joke : (

[fair jungle]

"

• A type of spirit in Mage: The Ascension that is linked to Sendings; see Psychopomp (MTAs)
• One of the Exarchs in Mage: The Awakening; see Psychopomp (MTAw)
• An animal-like creature within the Underworld; see Psychopomp (CofD)
• One of four Incarnations of Unchained in Demon: The Descent; see Psychopomp (DTD)
• A divine Purview in Scion; see Psychopomp (Scion)"

[clear delta]

Oh, god machine just uses those angels for logistics. Including moving ghosts around, clearing an area of them and even harvesting them as materials.
Demons can chose to not be dicks to them

[clear delta]

Oh.
Yeah, it didn't get across yo me, oops

[heady kestrel]

My fav demon ability continues to be Freeze assets

A demon can just temporarily turn off your money

[fair jungle]

.
I am so confused
Oh god God Machine rabbit hole here I go NNNNGHHHRRTTT

https://tenor.com/view/slide-drift-crash-fail-gif-16909243

[heady kestrel]

Demon is one the first games I read

I read demon, then changeling, then mage

[fair jungle]

how's the game?

[heady kestrel]

I haven’t had the chance to play it but I really like what it is playing with

waging a Cold War on God

[fair jungle]

So YHVH/Yehowah is the God-Machine?
It is the same god that cursed Caine?

[heady kestrel]

Unclear
No

[bright cairn]

The god machine is CofD, on OWoD it's just actual god

[heady kestrel]

Caine wasn’t cursed in Requiem, vampire is more a Kingdom of life

With kindred being a variety of species in that weird kingdom of vitae based life with a variety of origins

[fair jungle]

So the god that cursed caine is YHVH/Yehowah

Machine god is awhole other can of worms and even another alternative universe

[heady kestrel]

Yeah

It isn’t omnipotent, but it is like… very large and very smart

The god machine I mean

[fair jungle]

Magnus the red was also very large and very smart

So he's more kin to a Greek god and less YHVH

[heady kestrel]

The god machine is smart the way evolution is smart

It is a living system that tends towards efficiency

But this efficiency has been known to make it sloppy

To tend towards paths of least resistance

[bright cairn]

OWoD demon is also pretty controversial with how it handles religion in the first place. Which is why the god machine route in CofD is so detached from that

[fair jungle]

yeah CofD i hear is very different, but kinda discontinued ?

[heady kestrel]

Its not discontinued

[fair jungle]

oh cool

[heady kestrel]

Its got another book like… less than a month ago

[clear delta]

Where did you hear that?

[fair jungle]

lack of information + assumption + 'well, OWoD I heard was suppose to end so CofD could exist... but clearly OWoD is still receiving new content so maybe CofD didn't worked out as intended'

[heady kestrel]

For example: demons develop due to a software glitch in angels the god machine doesn’t seem to care enough to try and patch up

Or for another

It tends to just… avoid mummies whenever possible because its so annoying to piss one off

[clear delta]

It can be approached as a metaphor for systems of authority.
Which yeah, they work, but accumulate a lot of flaws tgat hurt people, or demand said pain.
God machine often uses blood sacrifices

[heady kestrel]

god machine tech is pretty classically “tungsten obelisk that requires human sacrifices in order to give the President cancer or run a private wifi connection without needing city power”

Or like “this machine requires you to throw whole humans into its gears in order to function properly. Hungry boy”

[clear delta]

So, what I know

• White wolf and owod died
• Onyx path, which fans from the owod, creates cofd.
• Paradox, which owns the IPs for both worlds, recreates white wolf and owod.
• White wolf causes controversies, including an international incident. Gets closed by paradox
• Paradox transfers owod to Onyx Path

[heady kestrel]

Also shoutout to exiles
Angels who the god machine started ghosting because it decided the best idea was to just… leave them there and see what they would do.

[clear delta]

Exiles can't fall

[heady kestrel]

They can however, deform into eldritch abominations

Called Slivers(or Silvers I forget which one)

Changeling is also really good but I don’t think I emotionally can gm it

At least not rn

[clear delta]

Yeah, changeling the lost is a bit heavy

[heady kestrel]

Specifically because rping gentry and huntsman is… heavy

[mighty zephyr]

I could do it

[heady kestrel]

Like I feel like I could handle the rest but having to do the equivalent of rping your abusive mom or ex husband(+terrible whimsy) seems like a lot for me

[clear delta]

You could have their specific keepers not pop up

Lots of gentry out there

And lots of problems for changelings besides gentry and huntsmen

Recovery, healing. Court stuff. Goblins

[heady kestrel]

True but that sort of thing feels very thematically important to the game and I feel like I would undersell it by avoiding it

[clear delta]

People manage to completely cut off their original abusers

[midnight grotto]

I have good news about the current universe

[clear delta]

More hookers and card games

Also, new universe will have more protections for sex workers and restrictions on gambling

[mighty zephyr]

Privateers are a fun lower stakes Villain

[fair jungle]

what the fuck White Wolf did

DM me if it is TOO spicy

Like 👏
Ok sorry, you can't just
"Oh they closed
Then Paradox revived then!
And they an International incident was caused by then and they clsoed for good"
And not let that Chekhov's Gun fire

[midnight grotto]

This is slightly askew

[fair jungle]

askew?

[midnight grotto]

but I don't know if I'm the best person to give an accurate retelling

the details are wrong

[midnight grotto]

This part I can clarify though. An earlier version of V5 included a reference to homophobic purges in Chechnya as a cover for secret vampire shit--which is really tasteless on its own--and the Chechnian government, which denies these purges, got mad at them. I think it got redacted.

[fair jungle]

.

o

Now I see another reason why they purged any direct native american link to werewolf lore

[midnight grotto]

As for the WoD/CofD timeline I can't claim to be the best source but the sequence of events is more like this

The World of Darkness line, which included Masquerade and all that (but wasn't technically the first edition) ended around 2000. It wasn't a matter of it failing or getting cancelled or anything, they just intentionally whiped the slate clean by making the big scary apocalypse the various metaplots were pointing to actually happen.

Shortly thereafter, White Wolf starts publishing the New World of Darkness system/setting, which includes Requiem.

Now, the exact sequence of events wherein ownership of WW gets passed around is where things get fuzzy to me. For a while, NWoD is getting published through Onyx Path, and also puts out Anniversary editions of the original systems, which are now referred to as Old World of Darkness. WW still exists at this time but is mostly just a source of licensing.

Anyhow, when Paradox buys White Wolf a new team comes in all excited about bringing back the Old World of Darkness, but they don't want to be calling it that, they want to be the only World of Darkness. So at their behest, OP changes NWoD's name to Chronicles of Darkness, including retroactively.

[clear delta]

I really miswrote a part here.
So onyx path, I'm not sure, but maybe has people from original white wolf?
Genome?

[midnight grotto]

Yeah

[clear delta]

Yeah, "which fan from original owod" is pure gibberish on my part

[midnight grotto]

And the important thing is that White Wolf does still exist and is still writing WoD, they just had the team shuffled around after some fuckups

[clear delta]

Oh? Thought they ended the white wolf company?

[midnight grotto]

Actually that's partially true now that I look at it, it's just that it was absorbed into Paradox

[fair jungle]

IRL WW Lore is just as interesting as WoD lore

[mighty zephyr]

White wolf no longer exists

It's just paradox

[midnight grotto]

the important detail is that Onyx Path didn't get custody of WoD afterwards

[mighty zephyr]

And now Paradox licenses to Renegade

Who made reckoning and w5

[fair jungle]

Wait, so who made V5 ?

[midnight grotto]

Ah okay, that was the part I missed completely

[fair jungle]

Of Hunter, Vampire and Werewolf

[velvet sparrow]

Paradox/whatever Paradox named the part of their company that made it

[midnight grotto]

If I'm reading Voy correctly, WW did Vampire and Renegade did the other two

all licensed through Paradox

[velvet sparrow]

And it is the same Paradox that makes the video games

[clear delta]

Oh. I saw owod on their website, so I thought it was theirs (if still owned by paradox)

[velvet sparrow]

It is, like all pointless IP shuffling bullshit, rather confusing

[midnight grotto]

They did the Anniversary stuff

Also, tragically, it seems like OP is phasing out its CofD stuff in favor of things they actually own

[velvet sparrow]

On one hand, , on the other hand, hell yeag

[fair jungle]

So Paradox is also doing the Bloodline 2 game that has been in dev. hell for a while

[velvet sparrow]

Publishing, not development I think

[mighty zephyr]

Correct

The people doing the game are the Dear Esther people iirc

[fair jungle]

...o

[velvet sparrow]

Oh yeah it is The Chinese Room doing Bloodlines 2

(They also did Amnesia A Machine for Pigs)

[fair jungle]

...ohno...

now i want to play bloodlines 1 again

But, yeah!
Thank you for the explanation that
Must have been a trip for the team, wow

[velvet sparrow]

I hope Bloodlines 2 turns out ok...

I really kind of don't think it will, but I hope it does anyways

[fair jungle]

yeeeeeeah

At least be well written
please
The combat can be Fallout 3 but please be well written, is all I ask

Because
God
Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Earthblood had so much to be great but it failed so hard

[clear delta]

How hard is bloodlines to mod?

[fair jungle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/iyjf8f/making_mods_for_vtmb_how/

SDK is your way to go

[rare swallow]

Same

[queen heron]

No new books announced, writers talked about how how Paradox (who still has the IP) isn't giving it anymore to onyx path

with Hedge out theres..... Deviant Companion?

and then thats it for CofD officially

(unless something changes)

[queen heron]

^

[queen heron]

this is true, but its also from Paradox's end too - Onyx path has been pushing non cofd stuff because they don't have to go through paradox for it.

[fair jungle]

So Onyx is going to do a Paizo's Pathfinder
Good for them

[queen heron]

I think theres a belief that CofD and WoD compete, and Paradox is more interested in the older setting

(imo, a little silly, people getting into one learn about the other)

[queen heron]

I mean, thats if Curseborne is actually good, which...

plus a lot of the writers are still around, just doing other stuff

CofD mage line dev has been pretty open about doing an unofficial book for the ST vault

Acro still does homebrew

from what I've heard, for the longest time Paradox basically didn't care about the WoD or CofD, so onyx path was pretty free to do whatever

[spice abyss]

As ever, this comes to the V5 debacle.

[queen heron]

with the past couple years they've been pushing a bit for the brand

[midnight grotto]

I've always been a NWoD fan and while CofD2 has some really outstanding improvements it was really hampered by the limitations of its publisher, so it feels like going out with a whimper

[spice abyss]

That mess happened and Paradox decided it was time to monitor the brand more closely.

[queen heron]

yeah

plus a general uptick in tabletop rpgs as mainstream, more common knowledge about the WoD from other places

[fair jungle]

V5 is full of controversies left and right huh

[queen heron]

On the one hand, it had a lot of mechanical hanger-ons from the older stuff it probably didn't need

on the other, later 2e stuff was honing in on some interesting tech

shame there was never a proper demon 2e

[spice abyss]

White Wolf Scuff is eternal.

[hidden rock]

They wanted to stay the "edgy game", and forgot they were actually the "emo games"

[fair jungle]

well
fuck

[clear delta]

Think that's a slur now

[mighty zephyr]

Yeah that is indeed a slur

[fair jungle]

Really?!

sorry

oh the correct term is Romani

[heady kestrel]

Probably delete the use of it too

[fair jungle]

deleted

But yeah a lot of old WoD books didn't age well

[rare swallow]

Indeed, a lot of content in many other books didn't age well either

[fair jungle]

So is
Good, in a way, how V5 is trying to refresh things

[rare swallow]

Yeah, there is an attempt™

[orchid void]

hihihi

im posting Lucy again

Because Mage is still going Well!

[grave gulch]

Lucy is weird

And thats good

Cause wod is weird

[orchid void]

She’s giving newly awakened mages the pitch for the Guardians of the Veil

Which is mostly “Don’t fuck up! Don’t pay attention to us! Keep the fucking Veils!”

[timber talon]

What happens if you fuck up

[sacred viper]

A part of the endless self-hating anti-reality of the Abyss comes into the World

And it is gluttonous for existence

[timber talon]

Oh

That’s bad right

[clear delta]

Yes. Abyss breaks reality

[fair jungle]

Like entropy?

[spice abyss]

God no.

Like non-concepts or non-beings coming in.

Or fundamental aspects of reality fraying.

Entropy is a truth. It's part of Death.

[heady kestrel]

Or entire other realities, desperately clawing and biting into ours trying to rip their way into it due to their jealousy at not being real

[hidden rock]

Is this the part where we talk about the prince of 10 000 leaves?

[heady kestrel]

Yep

[hidden rock]

(I made a variation for my Paris campaign where the concept was ported to late-royalty Versailles. Not fun)

(Also, I can't find the book RN, someone can swap in for me?)

[spice abyss]

I could talk about the corrupting math.

[queen heron]

The Abyss is meaningless

it takes Da Troof and makes it ... not, anymore

[spice abyss]

Junk Data that you can accidentally let it.

If you are irresponsible enough to cause Paradox, be some sort of last minute responsible and let it scour your Pattern.

Because the other outcomes are bad

[hidden rock]

A Guardian would argue it's a moral failing. A) You misused magic, B) You choose to let the world suffer instead of yourself

You're why Guardian Epopts have kill teams on speed dial.

[orchid void]

The Guardians of the Veil stalk you for a few months, having polite and tense conversations until you understand- the Sin of Pride invites the Pain of Paradox

[queen heron]

(I never got Intruders firsthand, only snippets from other people)

[hidden rock]

I think the Prince is in the Boston book?

[queen heron]

oh shit

I actually have a physical copy of that one I managed to snag

[orchid void]

Lucy’s having fun being a Guardian!

[versed zodiac]

vehme but for mages huh

[orchid void]

Magic cops!

Lucy’s coptype is Detective

[spice abyss]

Who hate that they have to be Bastards.

But it's a Necessary Sacrifice.

[versed zodiac]

vampire cops are the funniest because if you think about it they really have no leg to stand on morally

[orchid void]

Some of them hate it, some of them are big on wizard Jesus, some of them Just Do It

[versed zodiac]

they're bad for mortals AND they do bastard things to vampires

[spice abyss]

Meanwhile I like the Arrow, who are just correct. Don't worry about what they think too much, they're right. 😛

[versed zodiac]

watching my players try to wriggle out of taking Stains has been hilarious so far

[hidden rock]

I went with the logic that being a Mind Guardian is rough

[spice abyss]

Being a Guardian is a thankless job.

Partly because they're the order that beats in how bad improper use of Magic is.

[orchid void]

Lucy is Mind/Space/Death and is doing Fine I prommy

She’s adjusting Well

[spice abyss]

[clear delta]

Some abyssal stories!
A bull wanders into the wild stepping on ants. He gets stuck on an anthill and is torn apart.
A man rips his lower half off and throws into a well. One leg separates itself and crawls up the well. The man, horrified at this thing he has no idea what it is, throws it into the fireplace.
#1161696306100715550 message

[versed zodiac]

wait actually how are the the Idigam related to the Abyss

[clear delta]

They aren't

[orchid void]

They’re supposed to be around

[versed zodiac]

I- huh

[orchid void]

Abyss Isn’t

Wasn’t

Can’t

[spice abyss]

Idigam are, hilariously, actually reality functioning as intended.

[hidden rock]

Funny, Matthew was a Mind/Space/Fate and he could only stop being an asshole with the cabal.

[clear delta]

A girl is free to explore her house, except the locked closet. She finally gets bored and opens it, finding a mannequin that looks just like her. She runs all over the house, eventually reaching the closet again and hiding in it. The mannequin locks the door, calling her the mannequin

[hidden rock]

He played Bad Cop 150% of the time

[versed zodiac]

so the difference there is reality malfunctioning due to stuff being too RIGHT instead of way, way too wrong

[clear delta]

Grandfather lives with his four children, near a great wall. One by one, they wonder what's on the next side, and grandpa tells them to go look.
The first returns, saying there was light, but it was useless to him for he had no eyes. He fell sick and died.
The second spoke of music before his death.
The third spoke of time before his death.
The fourth was grandpa's favorite. So grandpa took a box and took eyes, ears and a clock.
The boy saw his grandpa and hears his voice for the first time, and realized how long they had live in that house at the edge of the world. He tore himself apart.

[spice abyss]

Well, Idigam are just Spirits without a concept attached to them.

They have growing pains as they learn meaning.

[hidden rock]

(Although working with a hero complex Obrimos AA did gave a strong Good Cop to play off of)

[clear delta]

Ooooh. Death mastigos, nice

[spice abyss]

An Idigam will strive to attach a Meaning to itself, to make something of itself.

[orchid void]

Lucy’s intro to the Abyss-

She asks what you would do if you found a fallen angel- a thing that had cursed the name of the creator and had fled in the wake of the Fall. She describes it for you, in great detail- as though she were describing an interesting engine she had seen at a mechanic's shop. The wings that flex along radial spirals, the eyes that whirl like a frightened cow's, the shape of some clockwork wrought by inhuman hands. The fallen thing makes demands of you, makes promises, seeks anything it can offer you to raise itself back up- to take a place in the machinery of the world that has been denied it by its fallen nature. And you, you made in the image of the Creator, can give it permission, can lift it up, if only you accept its bargain.  Lucy, personally, suggests at the end of her recitation, the best idea was to remove it. Hide it away. It was not meant for men to know the stuff of heaven.

"Stuff your ears with wax, as Outis did to see the sirens, and speak little of what you saw. I am a Catholic myself, the parable is something my stepfather told me." She gives a slightly [[pained smile]].

[[Do you have your own answer?]]```

[midnight matrix]

No card found for “pained smile”

No card found for “Do you have your own answer?”

[spice abyss]

An Intruder will not do that. They will make what is not happen.

[orchid void]

Ah fuck pings and bots

[sacred viper]

Hewwo

[versed zodiac]

I thought Idigam have concepts, they're just concepts that aren't applicable to the current state of reality due to being from before it was finished

[spice abyss]

Idigam are weird. Regardless of why they don't have a concept they're attached to, they will try to get a new one.

[orchid void]

Sowwy

[spice abyss]

See the one who attached itself to Faith.

[mighty zephyr]

This is what they think in-universe

but Idigam sorta defy classification

[sacred viper]

Lmao dont worry I was lurking the convo already

[clear delta]

Idigams are things that were on earth during the earky days. Their exact function and place are shrug. Father wolf just decided they were/became a danger to harmony of earth. So they banished them to the moon.
Maybe they're alien spirits. Or tge first spirits of eartg, from an era of chaos

[spice abyss]

But no matter what, Idigam are still natural

[orchid void]

They aren’t Abyssal

[clear delta]

They have a chaotic formless state, and a coalesced one

[spice abyss]

For a given definition of the term, at least.

[orchid void]

Nor of the Lower Depths

[mighty zephyr]

They WERE natural.

They WERE functions of the world.

[orchid void]

Which Strix ARE by mage reckoning