World of Darkness | Pilot NET | Page 9

versed zodiac Jan 29, 2024, 7:13 PM

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got that Earthshock on tap

rare swallow Jan 29, 2024, 7:13 PM

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Yeah but Gangrel have shatterproof combination discipline that allows them to use stamina to soak agg

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And also elders have access to bigger and scarier war forms

versed zodiac Jan 29, 2024, 7:13 PM

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Fair, fair

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not having Fortitude puts you in a nasty position

rare swallow Jan 29, 2024, 7:14 PM

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Yeah

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You need fortitude to even attempt

versed zodiac Jan 29, 2024, 7:14 PM

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if you have (high tier) Potence and Celerity you can just drop in on someone and chuck them into low earth orbit before they get the chance to react though

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that's pretty great

rare swallow Jan 29, 2024, 7:15 PM

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Yeah

mighty zephyr Jan 29, 2024, 7:15 PM

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Not much of a thing in 5th anymore I think

versed zodiac Jan 29, 2024, 7:15 PM

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Celerity has the 5-dot power for snapping directly to your opponent and immediately decking them

mighty zephyr Jan 29, 2024, 7:16 PM

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I think if you took identically statted Werewolf/Vampire and had them fight yeah the Wolf wins but I think a properly kitted out Vampire now stands a MUCH better chance against the average Werewolf

rare swallow Jan 29, 2024, 7:16 PM

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Didn't they add the 6+ versions of physical disciplines into the 1-5 dots in V5?

clear delta Jan 29, 2024, 7:16 PM

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Use celerity to dodge or block?

versed zodiac Jan 29, 2024, 7:16 PM

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Brujah do have that shounen hero "fuck it I'm gonna deck this dude at 500 mph" option

rare swallow Jan 29, 2024, 7:17 PM

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You could but if you get caught by the teeth or claws of a werewolf you are fucked without fortitude

versed zodiac Jan 29, 2024, 7:17 PM

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the Rider Kick contingency

rare swallow Jan 29, 2024, 7:17 PM

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Dodging is so good til you fail

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Both is always preferable

versed zodiac Jan 29, 2024, 7:18 PM

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5+5 amalgam that's just a megaton punch when

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on god I'm gonna do this werewolf like we're in a Trigger anime

clear delta Jan 29, 2024, 7:19 PM

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Just rip chunks of the ground to use as shields

grave gulch Jan 29, 2024, 8:52 PM

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besides Mage 5th what else could they release?

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changeling?

velvet sparrow Jan 29, 2024, 8:53 PM

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Changeling, Wraith, Mummy, Demon,

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I doubt they'll release any of those, tbh

grave gulch Jan 29, 2024, 8:54 PM

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vicksyHands

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i was interested in demon

heady kestrel Jan 29, 2024, 8:56 PM

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Deemon 5th could go hard

rare swallow Jan 29, 2024, 8:56 PM

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Wraith is likely ish

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Just because of all the stuff being covered by the books talking about Necromancy in v5

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At least that's what people keep saying

grave gulch Jan 29, 2024, 11:19 PM

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thanks to Madeleine wixelsSSG i just figured out what i'm going to do for a few of the hunts

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i'm very excited now

velvet sparrow Jan 29, 2024, 11:20 PM

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Yippee!

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:36 AM

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@mighty zephyr hey voy

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u playin W5?

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or forsaken?

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:37 AM

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Forsaken

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I really wanna play W5 tho

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Why do you ask @grave gulch

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:37 AM

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was going to ask how you felt about it vicksyAww

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:39 AM

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About Forsaken or W5?

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:39 AM

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W5 in this case

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cause they'll be releasing the physical book here in Brazil soon and i feel like i would like to buy it vicksyLUL

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:41 AM

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The tl;dr is that if you like 5th edition you will probably like W5, but if you want more of the old old world of darkness you'll probably be disappointed

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:43 AM

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i see vicksyThink so a good game, but not a whole lot of lore? what do you mean by wanting more of the old wod?

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:44 AM

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W5 retcons basically almost all Werewolf lore

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and redoes most of it's mechanics

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Which imo is a good thing because the old lore for the most part was really bad and needed to be rebuilt from the ground up

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 1:44 AM

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Yeah

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:45 AM

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i see vicksyThink i'm okay with that

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:45 AM

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mighty zephyr The tl;dr is that if you like 5th edition you will probably like W5, but if you ...

The long-form is that while there's specific mechanics I have problems with (Regenerating, the Rage Economy, and Tribal Patrons being a bit lackluster) it's all for the most part pretty solid, thematic, and neat. The lore has basically no problematic baggage like old werewolf had which was just so fucking much, there's no real problems I have with it. The only real problem is vagueness and a lack of detail at times which will probably get taken care of by later supplements.

I would basically just homebrew mechanics as you feel are neccessary but largely keep everything the same.

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:45 AM

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don't know a whole lot about their old lore except for their war with other were-folk

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and the uuuhh them being created about gaia

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:46 AM

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There was a lot of racism and eugenics

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and homophobia and transphobia

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 1:46 AM

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^

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:46 AM

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i think i remember yall mentioning that

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never looked too deeply into it and that's probably why vicksyLUL

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:47 AM

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It was bad

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Like I despised it

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immensely

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:47 AM

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vicksyNoted

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 1:47 AM

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big problems everywhere

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:47 AM

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But W5 is good it's got something to say and goes about as far as you really can reasonably expect an Actual Company to go

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And the art design fucking WHIPS

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Holy SHIT

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I think WtF 2e is my favorite RPG but like, for art?

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The art of W5 fucking blows WtF out of the fucking water

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absolutely no contest

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that book is gorgeous

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:48 AM

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vicksyLUL

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:49 AM

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But yeah

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I think WtF is the better game but I don't think W5 is bad at all and I wouldn't begrudge anyone playing it

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Same opinion I have with Hunter

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I think out of the 5th edition books it's probably the best one

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In terms of just like

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 1:50 AM

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what's the take on V5 vs VtR vs V20a

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:50 AM

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I can't make one really

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I glanced at v20 once and my eyes glazed over and retained nothing

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I also am not so familiar with how V5 plays but that MIGHT change soon

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I think the formatting of V5 is dogshit though

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if nothing else

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:51 AM

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i'll say

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 1:51 AM

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'cuz a lot of people seem kind of sour on V5 on the basis that it isn't V20a basically, and no one seems to be defending VtR

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:52 AM

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VtR rules

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I had a ton of fun with it

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 1:52 AM

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if ya know how W5 GOES

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You probably have an idea

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as to how V5 goes at least rules wise

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:52 AM

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Ehhhhh

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It comes down to minutae a lot tbh

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 1:53 AM

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I'm running my first ever World of Darkness game soonish hopefully and I picked V5 on the basis that it's the newest of the most popular gameline and that there's a lot of controversy in/around the nWoD/CofD games

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 1:53 AM

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It's an edition war in addition to the White Wolfisms that plague this gameline

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My favorite thing about VtR is that every clan is inherently unique in terms of power and disciplines

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Which is a big problem I have with VtM

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in that a lot of them feel superfulous

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or not at all like a vampiric archetype

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 1:59 AM

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versed zodiac I'm running my first ever World of Darkness game soonish hopefully and I picked ...

...more controversy than WoD5?

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Did you hear about V5 having a minor international incident?

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 2:00 AM

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mighty zephyr My favorite thing about VtR is that every clan is inherently unique in terms of ...

Requiem clans are shockingly efficient at covering thematic bases

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 2:01 AM

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Oh, right, the incident

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 2:01 AM

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Yeah I know it's why I think the Requiem clans are pretty much all you need

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 2:02 AM

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I'm actually curious, what's the Controversy with Requiem?

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 2:02 AM

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the controversy was edition war controversy, not political controvery, lol

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 2:03 AM

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ah okay

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got contentions at your local scene?

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 2:03 AM

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uh

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I don't have a local scene chief, it's just me trying to figure out if this game is cool along with some friends

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 2:04 AM

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oh pardon

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I was just kinda thrown off because I don't see much in the way of edition warring here, at least not ones that NWoD doesn't come out on top of

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 2:04 AM

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but when I was doing research on TTRPGs in general back when I first got into the idea of GMing a game I did a LOT of research and back then on the internet there were mixed opinions about all the CofD games versus the oWoD

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 2:04 AM

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ah okay

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it's all making sense now

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sorry for making assumptions

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(I was introduced to WoD by way of NWoD in college so it was just kind of "What WoD Is" for the longest time)

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 2:07 AM

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I see

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 2:09 AM

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versed zodiac what's the take on V5 vs VtR vs V20a

Then I guess to go back to this I might as well just say that I'm firmly on Team Requiem but I also have little to no experience with the other ones

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 2:09 AM

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Cool

midnight grotto Jan 30, 2024, 2:09 AM

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I will say that Requiem has less lore baggage if you're bringing in new players

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well... maybe. its lore priorities are kinda reorganized.

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 2:18 AM

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All the 20th edition stuff is for fans tbh

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So buying you into it is a tertiary concern for them

rotund lynx Jan 30, 2024, 3:29 AM

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every time that I come back to this goddamn thread

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there's a new conversation that had happened

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and I stand here

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looking at the screen

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and it feels like I'm looking through a house that got robbed

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or a silent warzone

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but every time I come back it's like it was spontaneously rebuilt for the purpose of that destruction

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none of the other channels have tidal waves like this

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what is with WoD players

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 3:35 AM

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?

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 4:08 AM

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I mean we just talking

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 4:56 AM

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yo this is just how channels that are on the borderline between permanently active and never active are

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 10:36 AM

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my players are asking for armor at the start vicksyConcern idk if i wanna give it to them tho

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what do yall think

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 11:08 AM

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Kevlar isn't really that hard to find tbh, but I feel like there shouldn't be a kevlar vest for every one of them
Maybe they just have 1

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I dunno

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 11:29 AM

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vicksyNoted

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 11:32 AM

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That way they have to be smart about using it at first

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 11:35 AM

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i like that idea

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 8:40 PM

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something that i thought about

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the same way you have kindred hotspots

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ya probably have the same for some of the other groups right?

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i was thinking if adding a single hunter hotspot or something like that would be good or not vicksyLUL

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 8:41 PM

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Sounds like a trap

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 8:41 PM

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vicksyNoted ya mean as in a bad idea?

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 8:42 PM

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Bad idea for the hunters, as it sounds like an ideal spot for whatever supernaturals to spy on them, learn who's a hunter, etc.

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 8:44 PM

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True vicksyThink

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 8:51 PM

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Yeah

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I forgot the name of the hunter group that's a bunch of occult researchers but, for example, when they started to look into kindred, the kindred set a lot of their stuff on fire

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It's how it is

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Gotta be sneaky

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 9:03 PM

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I'd say yeah

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I mean, you don't want to centralize too hard

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but hunters need to work collectively if they want to get anything done

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hidden safehouses, stockpiles of weaponry, places for medical attention without too many questsions being asked, networks of contacts and information

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even just a secure location to relax with people who 'get it'

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its not like a physical location is more prone to infiltration than an online forum

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:09 PM

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True, but it's harder to call the cops to arrest everyone on an online forum

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Whereas if the vampire business man (who almost certainly has inside people in the police) calls the cops saying "Hello there's a group of terrorists inside this building." and they find a bunch of Hunters...

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 9:12 PM

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I'd assume most vampires dont want to clear out hunters

strong bronze Jan 30, 2024, 9:13 PM

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"the metric for "oh fuck" for essentially every creature in world of darkness is 3-6 hobos with shotguns, hanging out anywhere that they arent expected to be"

idk why but that quote got burnt into my brain

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 9:13 PM

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better on your leash than elsewhere

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:14 PM

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And better dead than able to get lucky

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:15 PM

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If it's a US game, imagine a Nosferatu swatting the hunter gathering place

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It would

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Absolutely 100% happen

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And the hunters would be fucked

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:16 PM

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Exactly. The police aren't going to believe the Hunters, they're gonna take them to a cell where vampires can then disappear them and cover it up

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Maybe one cop realises they were onto something. So what, there's still 4 less hunters in your city

strong bronze Jan 30, 2024, 9:19 PM

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...maybe i am thinking small but i feel like getting government agencies that arent owned by vampires involved in this shit is a big risk for the masquerade at large

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 9:19 PM

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I don't think their chances long term if the dont work together is any better

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:19 PM

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Also true

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 9:19 PM

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if you have 20-something - 50 vampires collaborating, even teneously

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6 guys with a shotgun isnt going to really deal with vampires

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:20 PM

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It's a risk either way

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:20 PM

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queen heron I don't think their chances long term if the *dont* work together is any better

That's what online forums are for

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 9:21 PM

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swatting hunters has the problem of potentially pinging FIRSTLIGHT

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if you're using the 5e lore

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:21 PM

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I mean there are big hunter organisations

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:21 PM

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Oh right this is WoD5...

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:21 PM

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Society of Leopold anyone?

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But those also don't like small hunter cells gathering

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In the case of the SoL it's because they think the hunters are putting themselves in danger and mostly being in incompetent

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Iirc

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 9:22 PM

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swatting hunters
small brain
calling a wellness check on the hunters
big brain

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:23 PM

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Back to the original idea, I think it would not be a single place where all the Hunters gather. I feel like that just brings up too many risks. Something like an online group where they talk about things, possibly organizing dead drops or meetings at places from there would be very powerful however

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Like, it wouldn't be "This is the bar where all the Hunters hang out" it would be "Groupchat says there's a meeting here today"

strong bronze Jan 30, 2024, 9:24 PM

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like any good secret kinda illegal society,the secret meeting places are always honeypots

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:25 PM

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(Except Hunters are very illegal because they kill people.)

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(Vampires don't exist, this is real life)

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:26 PM

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Like I really get the vibe the hunters in CofD and H5 are big conspiracy theorist vibes
So yeah meeting in dark online forums and not having a set location for a social ground

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Absolutely makes sense

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To me

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You are a bunch of normal joes who have seen the truth! (in the non awakened way) and “They're” out to get you now

strong bronze Jan 30, 2024, 9:28 PM

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rare swallow Like I really get the vibe the hunters in CofD and H5 are big conspiracy theoris...

....that reminds me of a character that we discussed in another server

like,a complete lunatic always ranting and raving about chupacabras and ghosts that ends up somehow always being right like

no-bark from new vegas

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which ends up being a whistleblower for hunters

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:29 PM

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Like I really envision most hunters have a little bit of conspiracy theorist vibes

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But the conspiracy is real

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 9:31 PM

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they are absolutely on the conspiracy theorist grindset

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:32 PM

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Lmao

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 9:32 PM

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it just sucks when the conspiracy is real and actively trying to kill you because you still look insane from the outside but you also have to fight for your life

strong bronze Jan 30, 2024, 9:33 PM

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....you just gave me the idea for the worst possible character that I have to make as soon as I can get in a hunter game

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some mundane conspiracy theorist

like, moon landing denier that somehow got into a hunter society without actually mentioning anything supernatural, jsut generic "seeking the truth that THEY are hiding from us" and then on the first day

"wait,what the fuck-VAMPIRES?"

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:37 PM

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Lmao

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Nice

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 9:38 PM

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bro thought they were talking about the flat earth and then the vampires came out

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and were REAL

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:39 PM

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OWoD does have a shadow government tho in the form of the technocracy

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Which is great

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:41 PM

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The New World Order exists

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Literally

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That's their name

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I don't even know if the have an official name that's not "New World Order"

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And I just

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"The New World Order has Social Media Influencer clones they use to control people" Is a sentence that can be said

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And it is true

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:46 PM

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Yup

strong bronze Jan 30, 2024, 9:47 PM

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versed zodiac bro thought they were talking about the flat earth and then the vampires came ou...

"wait,the world isnt flat?"

"no you idiot,its hollow. dont go down there tho,the sons of ether-just,steampunk mages,dont worry about it didnt finish exterminating the nazis that fled there"

"THE WHAT"

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:47 PM

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Lmao yes

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:47 PM

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(Actually the Sons of Ether aren't fighting the Nazis)

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 9:48 PM

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when you thought you knew what the fuck was going on

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:48 PM

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(It's the monks living in the hollow earth that are)

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 9:48 PM

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There's also lizard people in wod iirc

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WoD is both really edgy and absolutely can't be taken seriously

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And I love it for that

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 9:49 PM

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I do not... recall them, but I absolutely believe they exist

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:04 PM

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Mage the ascension is the funny mage

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And the one where mages are good

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As in, good people

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:07 PM

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Debateable

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Fascism Capitalism and the Military-Industrial complex were all invented by Mages in oWoD

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:08 PM

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True

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:08 PM

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I think it should be up to the players and ST if they want any one group to be as evil, good or morally grey as they want tbh

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:08 PM

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Are there Mages who want to do good things and help people? Yes.

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But one of the biggest enemies the Player Characters will face will likely be the Autocratic Shadow Government, who originally formed because Mages were assholes who sat in their towers all day while vampires and werewolves ran around eating people unopposed

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:09 PM

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What I meant is, the condition of being mage isn't seen as bad.
While new mage focuses on you being a monster

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At least from the dev's perspective

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:10 PM

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It does?

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Damn

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:11 PM

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That is a bit weird because focusing on being a monster is already kinda Vampire's deal

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:11 PM

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Yeah no, in Ascension Mages are portrayed as like, Humans being what they're supposed to be

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:11 PM

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Like, the dev describes how it's about mages sucking, and the problems of their power

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:12 PM

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rare swallow That is a bit weird because focusing on being a monster is already kinda Vampire...

All splats are sorta monsters. Vampires are just very focused on being literal life suckers

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:12 PM

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none of the splats are Good Guys but I always took mages to be the least evil-by-necessity

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vampires HAVE to drink blood

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:12 PM

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It's more like you having to deal with being a monster more
The focus is on the conflict of being kind of a person still but absolute a monster

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:13 PM

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werewolves are monstrous by the nature of what they are, to a degree

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:13 PM

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Werewolves are assholes but they are actively fighting something way worse, is what I understand from Apocalypse?

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:14 PM

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they're magic spirit soldiers and the war does not draw lines that put humanity on the same side

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:14 PM

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The chapter by chapter narrative of new mage 2e involves a woman screwing up really badly by acting like a mage, with the case being investigated by a mage whose mistake ||erased his daughter from time and killed him from everyone's perspective||

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:14 PM

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this is unfortunate for humans

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:14 PM

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Honestly Apocalypse kinda goes into the "Werewolves are assholes who are fighting a losing war that they lost because of their own stupidity and pride and the rest of the world is getting dragged along with them"

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:15 PM

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Ah fair

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:15 PM

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yeah incidentally the magic spirit soldiers are ass w/ it

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:15 PM

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Like yeah werewolves kind of have it bad, because they killled everyone else who was supposed to help them

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:15 PM

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Lmao

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:15 PM

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they COMPLETELY shanked it

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:16 PM

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Wraith is definitely the more absolutely grey splat when it comes to the expected morals of the monsters you're playing, because by all intents and purposes you're just people

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:16 PM

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clear delta Like, the dev describes how it's about mages sucking, and the problems of their ...

and he's wrong about it too 😎

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:16 PM

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it's very funny that werewolves get on their high horses at vampires ever

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ain't no leg to stand on fuzzball

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:17 PM

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queen heron and he's wrong about it too 😎

I don't think I'd say someone is wrong about their own work

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:17 PM

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Vampires exist because werewolves killed the people who were supposed to stop Vampires from existing

rare swallow Jan 30, 2024, 10:17 PM

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Lmao

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:17 PM

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I'm

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:18 PM

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(That is a bit of comedic hyperbole)

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:18 PM

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I'm gonna have a very cross, very powerful vampire say "outta here fuzzball" at some point I think

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:19 PM

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clear delta I don't think I'd say someone is wrong about their own work

I don't think its the whole picture, even re: Dave's intent though

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he's also described the FC as representing Leftist politics, compared to the SL's more liberal positions

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:20 PM

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Anyway. New mages are incentivized by their powers to cause trouble. They're addicted to learning, have a a mystery detector they can't turn off, and have the power to pursue them and get away with stuff at the expense of others. Mages can just tears holes in the gauntlet, enter and disturb the shadow realm. They can poke and unleash dangerous things that sound interesting to them and would stay put otherwise

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:21 PM

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its not entirely pessimistic

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:21 PM

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queen heron he's also described the FC as representing Leftist politics, compared to the SL'...

Anarchs and carthians.

#

Wouldn't that be the same

#

Like, it's not that mages don't have good intentions or want to improve the world. But it seems their situation will just incentivize harmful behavior. Mages can avoid falling into that trap and use their powers well.

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:26 PM

#

mhm, I agree with that

#

the gamelines about crossing boundaries in pursuit of wants - obsession to an extreme degree

#

but I don't think they're 100% predisposed to abuse

#

its a good thing for people to Awaken

#

the bad is that its not open to everyone

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:33 PM

#

velvet sparrow Yeah no, in Ascension Mages are portrayed as like, Humans being what they're sup...

Oh forgot. Some in new mage don't properly go from humans to mages. Those harrowing awakenings result in people whose magical senses cause them horror and suffering, and they turn to hunting magic and mages, joining the banishers.
Also, los angeles mages stalk humans and insert themselves into their lives, because there are weird astral phenomena there. First mage to get to an anomalous human has a monopoly on them

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:36 PM

#

queen heron the gamelines about crossing boundaries in pursuit of wants - obsession to an ex...

Dave also said they're out of touch, but I don't think he expanded on that

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:40 PM

#

queen heron the bad is that its not open to everyone

On that point, that inequality is a pretty durable fact in the world of mtaw. So this fact facilitating abuse is part of the mage setting

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:40 PM

#

queen heron its a good thing for people to Awaken

Can't say much here. And kinda tired, haha

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:42 PM

#

fair lol

#

"Human but more" is also my read of Awakening

#

humans being what they are supposed to be, for better or worse

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

Like, what a society of mages would be like

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

but its based on read

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

Cofd is anti transhumanism

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

and I think if you look at what the ruins portray, the Time Before as a society (if it was even singular) was not utopian

#

if you believe the Seers mythology, it led to the Exarchs

queen heron Jan 30, 2024, 10:44 PM

#

clear delta Cofd is anti transhumanism

its very humanist, yeah

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 10:46 PM

#

vicksyAww i'll figure out some other hunter cells

#

actually i already had some ideas for them

#

the wizard is planned, the ghost as well

#

and the first oficial hunt to vicksyRaid

#

i wonder what else would be good to think about

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 10:51 PM

#

Information providers?

#

You go to a bar and talk to an informant in a corner

#

Like that guy from big o

velvet sparrow Jan 30, 2024, 10:55 PM

#

Where do they get their hunting tools from?

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 10:55 PM

#

clear delta You go to a bar and talk to an informant in a corner

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1014538127722946600.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

#

one of the players got 3 points into ally for one of their edges

#

they'll start with one who's friends with the party

#

also i was thinking, you can have kindred themselves with hunters on their paychecks right?

versed zodiac Jan 30, 2024, 10:57 PM

#

Could do

#

risky business, but it's a possibility, and vampires are petty squabbling types so they might not be above hiring a Hunter to bump off a rival or an inconvenient 3rd party of vampires

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 11:00 PM

#

velvet sparrow Where do they get their hunting tools from?

one of the players is focused on crafting and true faith, one is a criminal with connections in gangs and whatnot, the other one is .w. he made a homeless person...idk how to work with that vicksyLUL

#

oh yeah, the homeless pc does have an ally who's a cop

#

which is also another source for info

mighty zephyr Jan 30, 2024, 11:14 PM

#

strong bronze ...maybe i am thinking small but i feel like getting government agencies that ar...

This do be the plot of 5th edition

clear delta Jan 30, 2024, 11:29 PM

#

Oh, how do your hunters de-stress from the hunt?

spice abyss Jan 30, 2024, 11:30 PM

#

De-stress? Now that's a foreign concept.

grave gulch Jan 30, 2024, 11:33 PM

#

vicksyLUL

#

well

#

drugs?

rare swallow Jan 31, 2024, 12:03 AM

#

they de-stress by looking into other supernatural freaks to exterminate

#

obviously

queen heron Jan 31, 2024, 12:16 AM

#

group fishing trip

rare swallow Jan 31, 2024, 12:25 AM

#

you find nessie

queen heron Jan 31, 2024, 12:25 AM

#

karaoke

velvet sparrow Jan 31, 2024, 12:32 AM

#

Singing Vampire

strong bronze Jan 31, 2024, 2:06 AM

#

clear delta Oh, how do your hunters de-stress from the hunt?

The hunting is the de stress

little light Jan 31, 2024, 12:11 PM

#

How could you relax when THEY are still out there

#

I think most hunters either end up or start out spending all their time peaking through the blinds and installing locks

grave gulch Jan 31, 2024, 12:14 PM

#

true

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 2:52 AM

#

onyx path has given no info on cursborne except ‘mysterious’ args

countdown ended today

more teasers instead of info

#

👁️ 👁️

#

instead of anything solid they released a 20 questions “which splat are you” quiz

#

I SWEAR if this shit is just regular storypath with no spice I’ll be peeved

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 3:02 AM

#

Curseborne?

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 4:09 AM

#

mighty zephyr Curseborne?

oh sorry

#

its like

#

Onyx Path has been teasing some urban fantasy / new horror tabletop?

#

but like

#

"teasing" might even be generous

#

wheres the fucking crow video

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL1VPUzoB_Y

YouTube

Onyx Path Publishing

Crows

▶ Play video

#

?????????

#

and then this one like a month ago

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc-aD0Lt6d4

YouTube

Onyx Path Publishing

C̵͒͘r̵̄͛o̶͗̇ẅ̴̾s̷̎̒ ̶̧̄

▶ Play video

#

???????????????

#

they've released like no info for a year lmao

#

I mentioned it here because its probably their CofD-without-paradox successor

#

(not that we know because theres like no solid info)

#

it seems like the same kitchen sink stuff as WoD, and its got some of its writers on it

#

but ???????

#

I don't have high hopes lmao

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 4:30 AM

#

queen heron instead of anything solid they released a 20 questions “which splat are you” qui...

also the "splats"(?) are stuff like

#

#

#

#

its...

#

squint

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 4:34 AM

#

My favorite splat

#

ghost slut

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 4:34 AM

#

theres 36

#

Idk if they're mix and match, or different expressions of broad groups...

#

they all got Proper Nouns though

#

what does any of this mean?

#

🤷‍♂️

#

the ~~vampire~~ sorry I mean "Hungry One" when I tell them "you need to go Outside 😎" and then skateboard away with angel powers

#

some of the questions were very chuuni too

#

there was one that was "What do you do if someone's talking behind your back" and it was ||Kill them, stalk them, poison them, call the cops on them, dox them, ask a friend to kill them||

#

@velvet sparrow here you go

#

https://www.curseborne.com/

Curseborne

Curseborne | Curseborne

#

you gotta click the moth and thats the quiz

velvet sparrow Feb 1, 2024, 4:40 AM

#

Ooooh thank you

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 4:40 AM

#

it could still be a good game when it comes out

#

I'm just like cmon you gotta give something

sacred viper Feb 1, 2024, 5:44 AM

#

queen heron also the "splats"(?) are stuff like

These are worringly generic

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 5:45 AM

#

Maybe they're aiming for just like

#

An all in one urban horror fantasy vibe

#

Which I'm not saying is GOOD but if that's their thing maybe

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 5:46 AM

#

sacred viper These are *worringly* generic

yeah....

#

at least 8 are "you like secrets and trading secrets for power"

sacred viper Feb 1, 2024, 5:49 AM

#

I have no idea if some of these are meant for you to be a supernatural splat or just mortal

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 6:03 AM

#

some seem mortal but spooky

#

Network, Heir, etc

#

the wizardy ones

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 9:28 AM

#

"Please let me do a second reboot! The third version will be amazing!"

#

Lmao. That test feels like those anateur quizzes

#

Shit. Images didn't load properly due to bad connection

#

Oh, they're loading

#

What the fuck. Heir? Heir?

#

Nothing to do with my answers

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 10:23 AM

#

What would corporate spirits do after humanity dies from climate change or some other disaster for profit? Feed on post-apocalyptic resonance?

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 10:39 AM

#

Spirits of capitalism and disaster. Yeah, wouldn't go magath.

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 12:48 PM

#

Could mix with spirits of a more literal consimption

#

Also, it's strange ghost phenomena is so human based. Object and animal ghosts form from human feelings when they get destroyed/due. Guess it's due to the soul

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 1:29 PM

#

I think its because ghosts are more related to the mind

#

||I mean doylistly its because human ghosts fit the genre better||

#

but ghosts are very much portrayed as literal memory, and related to intense traumatic experiences

#

its like how you can form a ghost without death in CofD, if you have a particularly nasty breaking point or just barely survive something

#

Not that animals dont think

#

(and I’d let ghosts form from more than just human trauma)

#

But they’re not thinking in the ways that form ghosts, I guess

#

there is a Geist offhand about floods of animal and bugs ghosts though, so 🤷‍♂️

#

cant remember if it was a tone / setting knob or otherwise

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 2:36 PM

#

Yeah, the planet has a collective mind, after all. It could produce ghosts from its own trauma

grave gulch Feb 1, 2024, 3:42 PM

#

bug ghosts?

#

.w.

#

now i'm sad

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 4:00 PM

#

Hmm. Ghost swarm is a cool concept

#

If the memory was of the bug swarm as a whole, could they count as a single ghost? Swarm geist

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 4:03 PM

#

Favorite thing is a vampire haunted by their own ghost

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 4:11 PM

#

Really judgemental of their unlife choices

#

Imagine, a vampire having to share the body with a ghost and geist

#

The bargain shouldn't have worked on the vampirezed body. It did.

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 4:13 PM

#

Actually thinking about it

#

That's kinda fucked

#

Geists aren't the same person that died

#

By the metaphysics presented

grave gulch Feb 1, 2024, 4:37 PM

#

vampire haunted by their own ghost?

#

explain

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 4:51 PM

#

when a person dies traumatically it creates a ghost that is anchored to that death

#

to become a vampire you must die traumatically

#

so vampires can easily become haunted by their own ghost

midnight grotto Feb 1, 2024, 6:33 PM

#

And then you can have your ghost possess a creepy doll and become your sidekick

grave gulch Feb 1, 2024, 6:37 PM

#

vicksySip

#

wtf

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 6:37 PM

#

Vampire who produced a bunch of ghosts over their life, one became a geist. Vampire becomes a mix of sin-eater and hive-claimed

#

Oh, did I recreate Samuel Haight?

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 7:45 PM

#

mighty zephyr By the metaphysics presented

I like it for the followup message

#

”Ghosts arent the people who died - Ghosts are still people”

#

plus cofd selfhood is very piecemeal

#

swap out memories, swap out bodies, swap out souls

#

none of it’s essential

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 8:04 PM

#

Swampman problem

#

Ghosts are an obsessed copy of the person

#

Or, for some scholars, a piece of the soul that disconnected

sacred viper Feb 1, 2024, 8:20 PM

#

queen heron none of it’s essential

So sad that Theseuses boat was shipwrecked with the fall of Atlantis

midnight grotto Feb 1, 2024, 8:29 PM

#

queen heron none of it’s essential

Excellent Obsession fodder is trying to find the essence

#

Mages love looking at paradox riddles and saying "there's a right answer and I can prove it"

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 8:32 PM

#

"Boy, do I have paradox and nonsense for you!"
-Jane Scelestus

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 8:33 PM

#

My vampire scientist wants to figure out why decapitation kills a vampire

#

Why does a vampire need a brain

versed zodiac Feb 1, 2024, 8:36 PM

#

presumably The Blood still needs to get neurons to fire so the body does stuff, or it'll stop circulating

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 8:39 PM

#

but why

#

why does a magical reanimated corpse need to abide by biology?

#

at what point does the decapitation kill?

midnight grotto Feb 1, 2024, 8:43 PM

#

That sounds like something my Ordo Dracul character would have been very invested in

#

He was a pathologist who wanted to explain vampirism but was constantly tortured by being exposed to weird supernatural bs

#

"Okay so faeries are real. Fuck me I guess."

#

Developed a policy of "Is it related to the Kindred? No? Then i'm not gonna waste time and sanity trying to figure it out."

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 8:46 PM

#

My Daeva was also gonna be Ordo

#

his whole thing was he was a torpored Ancillae/Elder who popped out of a coffin in Boston Harbor

#

but he was actually a Duke from Edinburugh in the 1800s

#

Who made a symbiotic pact with a blood spirit and became a brutal, tyrannical despot until he was deposed

#

but as soon as he wakes up the spirit does too and so while hee's enjoying the amnesia there's just this fucking Thing running across the Atlantic like Monty Python

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 9:05 PM

#

midnight grotto Excellent Obsession fodder is trying to find the essence

cause it is there for Mages!

#

(And everyone else, but Mages can see it)!

#

Gnosis is stored in the… ?????

#

Mastigos argue about the Self, with a large part going “well there is a ‘You”

#

they just disagree on what that means

midnight grotto Feb 1, 2024, 9:08 PM

#

Real easy to become a Reaper trying to figure that out, I realize

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 9:08 PM

#

is it just a signifier of your place in the world? Is it a transcendental essence, and where your ability to chose comes from?
Is the soul relevant to any of it?

midnight grotto Feb 1, 2024, 9:08 PM

#

"Hey I'm gonna dissect your mind soul and body to try and find You... And I might get hungry while I'm in there"

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 9:09 PM

#

mighty zephyr why does a magical reanimated corpse need to abide by biology?

thats a good one

midnight grotto Feb 1, 2024, 9:09 PM

#

"my low Wisdom ass could not be a brain surgeon 😂"

patent talon Feb 1, 2024, 9:47 PM

#

I do very much dig that for some of the greater mysteries the biggest repositories of knowledge are Mages who do some Hubristic shit. Who knows the most about souls? Why it's the Reapers! Rapt have plenty of insight into their compulsion, if you can avoid them turning it on you

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 10:28 PM

#

you just know a promethean or two were created by a mage poking at divine fire, trying to understand the formation of souls from first principles

patent talon Feb 1, 2024, 10:29 PM

#

Maybe some Deviants too

#

Seers are definitely involved in the Web of Pain

heady kestrel Feb 1, 2024, 10:35 PM

#

I could also see some Left Handed mages in the web of pain

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 10:58 PM

#

Hmm, what kind of ghost would a traumatic deletion create?

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 11:07 PM

#

what do you mean

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 11:07 PM

#

What ghost would digital files make?

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 11:08 PM

#

digital ghost

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05juPK9q7HY

YouTube

✰𝕄𝕠𝕟𝕥𝕘𝕠𝕞𝕖𝕣𝕪 𝔾𝕒𝕥𝕠𝕣✰

Hello Cyberdream | Scooby Doo and the Cyberchase

Composed by: Louis Febre and Richard Wolf

Credit to mikerdfan1996 for extracting the tracks:
http://forums.ffshrine.org/member.php?u=1112517

All rights belong to ©Warner Bros and Hanna Barbera

▶ Play video

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 11:09 PM

#

How would it be in twilight? Just the file in real space?

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 11:09 PM

#

Twilight wouldn't effect the files unless it manifested

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 11:11 PM

#

Hmm?

#

Don't ghosts hang out in death twilight until they manifest in the physical or sucked into underworld?

mighty zephyr Feb 1, 2024, 11:30 PM

#

oh yeah ghosts don't have a Shadow

#

completely forgot

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 11:43 PM

#

clear delta What ghost would digital files make?

I’d make it a memento

#

if I was gonna make it anything

#

Whatever the ghosts of objects or places are

#

if its the type of file that thinks - same as a person I guess

#

ghost in the machine

#

hmm

#

if human ghosts keep a body, would the ghost of an AI have ephemeral hardware?

#

Just a cracked metal case floating in midair

queen heron Feb 1, 2024, 11:46 PM

#

queen heron if its the type of file that thinks - same as a person I guess

but this is because I know compsci magers who convinced me computers can fall under Mind

clear delta Feb 1, 2024, 11:51 PM

#

queen heron Whatever the ghosts of objects or places are

True, but objects already have a physical form to base the ghost on. Do files just create ghostly copies of computers, only capable of proccessing them?

queen heron Feb 2, 2024, 12:42 AM

#

I'd say

#

yes, if they aren't a rank 0

#

but they also only need it as much as a humanoid ghost needs their body - its where the corpus is stored

#

but there might not be much internal functioning going on

#

just the shapes important

#

and I'd also have it more common that digital ghosts possess existing hardware

#

its got its spectral body too, but its anchored to an existing network

queen heron Feb 2, 2024, 12:46 AM

#

queen heron there is a Geist offhand about floods of animal and bugs ghosts though, so 🤷‍♂️

#

found the sidebar btw

#

"Not all - maybe not even most"

#

so its up in the air

#

however

#

Geist also says this

#

🤷‍♂️

#

run it how you want, basically

#

#

theres a certain degree of "The Old Laws" going on here too

#

sure, psychic trauma causes ghosts to form... but also

#

the first thing buried in a graveyard returns as a rank 3, always

#

death follows rules beyond easy explanations

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 12:53 AM

#

queen heron

Is this saying they can form without human trauma? Huh?

queen heron Feb 2, 2024, 12:56 AM

#

It at least opens it as a possibility

#

not the first time these books have had minor contridictions, they've got teams of writers more than a single author

#

"Sudden deaths, deprivation, and horrid conditions" can cause ghosts, even if they aren't unfufilled and they aren't close to humans, but also "humans need to supply a psychic spark or care about something for it to make a ghost"

#

who knows

#

there are Occult Forces at work, and when they combine right you get ghosts

#

CofD's ghosts pull a lot from Victorian Gothic

#

but its Underworld is straight up mythic at times

#

I know scholarly-types who prefer its navigation for faerie stuff over the Hedges contest-of-skill

sacred viper Feb 2, 2024, 11:40 AM

#

https://tiktoksformyfriends.tumblr.com/post/740634506892034048

Tumblr

vibeo

[video by contentmachine. caption: Austin is just a giant Patagonia store]

▶ Play video

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 11:47 AM

#

The angel investor and the seers of the throne in silicon valley looking at this, confused

heady kestrel Feb 2, 2024, 11:49 AM

#

What seer ministeries would hang around Silicon Valley do y’all think

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 11:51 AM

#

I think the followers of the prophet from nameless and accursed are in silicon valley

grave gulch Feb 2, 2024, 11:52 AM

#

vicksySip how does playing as a demon work btw? got a but curious about that

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 11:53 AM

#

clear delta I think the followers of the prophet from nameless and accursed are in silicon v...

There's a scarecrow looking lady part of the ministry of wearing people down through routine and the legacy of turning the world into a deterministic mechanism under the prophet.

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 11:53 AM

#

grave gulch <:vicksySip:996566522828968088> how does playing as a demon work btw? got a but...

Which demon?

grave gulch Feb 2, 2024, 11:53 AM

#

uuuhhh

#

wod i guess

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 11:54 AM

#

Oh. Kay, they're escapees from hell who take the bodies of dead or comatose humans. The human experiences reconnect them to the world and stop their trauma, their Torment, from overpowering their minds

#

They collect faith from humans

#

Through deals and cults

#

Faith is their power source

#

They have apocalyptic forms, that look scary at high torment and angelical at low torment. Torment also alters their powers into destructive, violent pr cruel versions of their effects

#

They have houses, that define their affinities for powers.
That's pretty much what I know

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 11:59 AM

#

clear delta There's a scarecrow looking lady part of the ministry of wearing people down thr...

Back to the seer. Her building is magical. Her employees are exhausted and losing time. Her product is an app with algorithms and magic to predict what you should do.

grave gulch Feb 2, 2024, 12:03 PM

#

vicksySip could they be just some lad trying yo live in peace? or do they need to create those cults and stuff to keep their new bodies?

clear delta Feb 2, 2024, 12:05 PM

#

Hmm. I don't know. I don't think they spend faith to keep their bodies. They wouldn't get any in hell, and they'd take a while to set up stuff to collect it

grave gulch Feb 2, 2024, 1:23 PM

#

that's neat

#

like some vamps do get to live somewhat normally vicksyThink but their sects and not being able to go out during the day feels like a big downside

queen heron Feb 2, 2024, 6:03 PM

#

heady kestrel What seer ministeries would hang around Silicon Valley do y’all think

Pantechnicon, Holologian, Mammon, hmmmm
A very specific kind of minor Father ministry

#

wherre you take wild start-up ideas purely on faith

#

oh, Panopticon of course

#

surveillance and Big Data

grave gulch Feb 2, 2024, 6:13 PM

#

was looking at the hunter the vigil book cause i remembered they had some cool monsters in there

#

and this is hilarious

clear delta Feb 3, 2024, 10:15 PM

#

Botan from yu yu hakusho is an unusually sociable geist

#

Oh, that bullied boy is turning into a claimed

grave gulch Feb 3, 2024, 10:42 PM

#

what was that thing about werewolves being capable of changing genders? is that only on Chronicles or wod as well?

mighty zephyr Feb 3, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

Idk about wod

#

But chronicles has Lunas Grace or something similar

#

Switches your gender at will

grave gulch Feb 3, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

vicksySip can it also be used to change your appearance?

#

like...do something with a face and switch it up?

#

to throw people off and whatnot

mighty zephyr Feb 3, 2024, 10:45 PM

#

In cofd no

#

To do that you have to rip someone's face off and wear it as a mask

grave gulch Feb 3, 2024, 10:47 PM

#

.w.

#

you scare me

mighty zephyr Feb 3, 2024, 10:47 PM

#

Werewolves do be scary

#

In w5 I believe there is a mimicry gift

grave gulch Feb 3, 2024, 10:52 PM

#

neat vicksyInspect

#

also my players legit thought i would throw a werewolf at them first session

#

it was hilarious

strong bronze Feb 4, 2024, 3:07 AM

#

question

...what are redcaps

what do they play like

clear delta Feb 4, 2024, 9:27 AM

#

Changeling tge dreaming

#

Is where they're from

#

@velvet sparrow

velvet sparrow Feb 4, 2024, 2:02 PM

#

Dunno, not played Dreaming

clear delta Feb 4, 2024, 2:03 PM

#

velvet sparrow Dunno, not played Dreaming

Oh! Sorry then

velvet sparrow Feb 4, 2024, 2:08 PM

#

All good

clear delta Feb 4, 2024, 3:47 PM

#

Thinking of that uncrowned kings but spirit.
Read resonance and past impressions. Change manifestation condition. Hurt spirit. Shift spirit traits. Essence fountain or annihilate spirit.
Shift topography. Improve, repair objects. Set that auto-repair spell on an object.

#

Could also give a bit of an historian vibe to them. Would need to give an attainment to analyze a spiritxs history through their composition and shape

mighty zephyr Feb 4, 2024, 5:58 PM

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/950399917304729651/1203748649780121610/image.png?ex=65d2394a&is=65bfc44a&hm=e04d68488c246ab3114222332848320c258a53bbf7035f9aabf1226063faab52&

grave gulch Feb 4, 2024, 6:58 PM

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vicksyKnife

versed zodiac Feb 4, 2024, 7:20 PM

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This is a game about vampires, about people who prey on humans, about the inevitable downward spiral that begins when you first go too far and take a life. It's not a game about mean, bitchy uber-goths with superpowers bickering and arguing about who gets to be billy big balls of all the uber-goths in town
I assure you that VtM is in fact exactly about that and potentially only that

spice abyss Feb 4, 2024, 7:21 PM

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This seems like it was written by someone who hasn't play Vampire tbh

versed zodiac Feb 4, 2024, 7:21 PM

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with the caveat that sometimes billy big balls of goth town has to deal with the rowdy punk goths, the terrorist goths, and also some insufferable furballs all at once and it's enough to make a fully-grown man who's been vampiring for hundreds of years break down into tears

versed zodiac Feb 4, 2024, 7:22 PM

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spice abyss This seems like it was written by someone who hasn't play Vampire tbh

okay, to be fair, I cherrypicked this from a Reddit comment explaining that the "official flavor" of VtM in the book is at best a suggestion

spice abyss Feb 4, 2024, 7:23 PM

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My statement stands.

versed zodiac Feb 4, 2024, 7:23 PM

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this is the full context

sacred viper Feb 4, 2024, 7:26 PM

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Wizards building space lasers already goes way harder than what most GMs can write for politics

queen heron Feb 4, 2024, 8:03 PM

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spice abyss This seems like it was written by someone who hasn't play Vampire tbh

noted WoD designer thing lmao

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no full pilgrimage was completed in Prometheans dev cycle

clear delta Feb 4, 2024, 8:46 PM

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queen heron no full pilgrimage was completed in Prometheans dev cycle

Promethean is a very different vibe

mighty zephyr Feb 4, 2024, 9:27 PM

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Tbh they're right

queen heron Feb 4, 2024, 10:31 PM

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yeah - I'm not gonna diss devs for angling for a theme

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its a little abrasive towards its players - if people aren't engaging with your books themes in the way you want thats a dev issue imo

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the metaplot and ten-thousand overlapping plots does detract from the personal horror focus (and its why for stories about vampires, instead of Vampire stories, I like Reqiuem more)

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 12:50 AM

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btw

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do werewolves in w5 also have regular lives apart from their duty?

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or do they hang around parks/forests 24/7 watching things like hawks?

mighty zephyr Feb 5, 2024, 1:07 AM

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grave gulch do werewolves in w5 also have regular lives apart from their duty?

They do

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You have touchstones and can get a merit where you hold down q day job

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 1:08 AM

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so my best bud could be a werewolf and i don't even know vicksyHappy

mighty zephyr Feb 5, 2024, 1:09 AM

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Yup

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 1:11 AM

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that's cool

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 1:18 AM

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Hmm. Think I'll start looking at mage the ascension.

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Some traditions feel more flexible than other. Society of either vs hermetics, for example

velvet sparrow Feb 5, 2024, 2:09 AM

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Hermetics are plenty flexible

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Hermetics are quite possibly the most flexible of all the Traditions

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 2:12 AM

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are they the ones who like to hoard knowledge?

velvet sparrow Feb 5, 2024, 2:12 AM

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The Hermetics are basically traditional D&D Wizards

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 2:15 AM

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they go to fast food restaurants at 4am to cause mischief? vicksyPog

unkempt locust Feb 5, 2024, 3:29 AM

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clear delta Promethean is a very different vibe

I would love to play Promethan but it's one of those games that I'll likely never get to

spice abyss Feb 5, 2024, 3:40 AM

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I don't know if there's a table I trust enough in the world.

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Maybe one on one with a therapist.

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 9:25 AM

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velvet sparrow Hermetics are plenty flexible

Aren't they all in a structure with a solid system and values?

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 2:45 PM

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how do you become a wizard in wod?

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 2:47 PM

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In owod? There's learning hedge magic, and actually awakening

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 2:48 PM

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what's awakening? vicksyAww

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 2:49 PM

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Process of realization in which a mage gains their powers

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In old mage, everyone has potential to warp reality, but are stuck in the consensus of how the world works. Upon awakening, they reject the imposed view of the world and become capable of warping it

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 2:55 PM

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vicksyThink i see...and what's hedge magic?

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 2:57 PM

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Sorcery/linear magic/hedge magic can be taught to non-mages.

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It's accepted by the world/consensus, but less potent

hidden rock Feb 5, 2024, 2:58 PM

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Hedge magic is learning line commands. Awakening is learning to code by yourself.

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 3:02 PM

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vicksyAww can u give me an example of hedge magic?

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 3:03 PM

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Here https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Path_(MTAs)

White Wolf Wiki

Path (MTAs)

Paths are domains of linear magic, similar in some ways to the Spheres of Awakened magic. A Path, however, is much more narrowly defined than a Sphere: a Path is good for producing one fairly...

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Wikias can be hit and miss, but this page seems good enough for examples

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The cofd pages can be outdated.

grave gulch Feb 5, 2024, 3:05 PM

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oooh

velvet sparrow Feb 5, 2024, 4:29 PM

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clear delta Aren't they all in a structure with a solid system and values?

What do you mean?

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 4:29 PM

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Oh, whatever. I'm probably wrong

velvet sparrow Feb 5, 2024, 4:35 PM

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sorry

clear delta Feb 5, 2024, 4:35 PM

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It's fine

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I'm thinking of just making/looking at mages and seeing how they fit with the traditions and the setting

queen heron Feb 5, 2024, 9:02 PM

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grave gulch how do you become a wizard in wod?

you have to make a deal with The Skeleton

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if a wizard tells you they didn’t and they dont know what you’re talking about - they’re lying

versed zodiac Feb 5, 2024, 9:04 PM

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and upon death you are obviously drafted into the skeleton war

queen heron Feb 5, 2024, 9:04 PM

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clear delta Oh, whatever. I'm probably wrong

(Oh I thought it was a really funny joke about hermetically-sealed containers)

rotund lynx Feb 5, 2024, 9:24 PM

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versed zodiac Feb 5, 2024, 9:43 PM

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Call the vehme Pyotr

clear delta Feb 6, 2024, 3:45 PM

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Idea. Spirit mage that awakened when something went wrong with the gauntlet in her city abd she experienced horrors from or in the umbra. She had to improvise rituals and weapons, knowing a bit of engineering.

grave gulch Feb 6, 2024, 5:39 PM

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i wanna pull the rug under my players and use a wereshark instead of a werewolf when i decide on doing so vicksySip i'll of course wait till they are a tad more experient

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what's a good way of introducing a wereshark hunt?

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also mostly cause they dont know those exist vicksyLUL i wanna surprise them

mighty zephyr Feb 6, 2024, 5:47 PM

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So I'm thinking about Reno's Domain Expansion

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And I think what it's gonna be is that he takes you into outerspace just as the sun crests around Jupiter

versed zodiac Feb 6, 2024, 5:47 PM

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grave gulch what's a good way of introducing a wereshark hunt?

Werewolves generally are implicated in killing Pentex but also basically anyone they think is fucking the environment up, so presumably you could have a series of killings/vanishings that the Hunters assume are werewolf activity but turn out to be an ornery Rokea attacking from the port or dockside...?

mighty zephyr Feb 6, 2024, 5:47 PM

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causing HORRIFIC burns and exposure to a vaccuum

grave gulch Feb 6, 2024, 6:00 PM

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versed zodiac Werewolves generally are implicated in killing Pentex but also basically anyone ...

vicksyNoted right right

versed zodiac Feb 6, 2024, 6:01 PM

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you're probably going to want something that actually implicates werewolves instead of general murdering, so you might want the victims to be werewolf'd

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i.e. torn to shreds

grave gulch Feb 6, 2024, 6:02 PM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1014538127722946600.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

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i imagine that's very doable considering their war forms are similar

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beeg claws beeg teeth

versed zodiac Feb 6, 2024, 6:03 PM

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yeah, no doubt a Rokea could do someone like that

clear delta Feb 7, 2024, 12:37 PM

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Idea. Rank 5 geists, more like kerberoi at this point, just manifesting on the physical world for strange goals. Could be during full moons.
You can tell I've been playing persona 3

hidden rock Feb 7, 2024, 12:50 PM

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If you really want a moon thematic, you could always yank the woof's themes by moon phase shtick

queen heron Feb 8, 2024, 4:08 AM

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Ooo

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geists are still related to a type of death, right?

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Rank 5 would be more like dying shaped as a person, than a person who died

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they didnt just drink from the rivers, its water flows through them still

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maybe they’re connected to a specific one

clear delta Feb 8, 2024, 10:42 AM

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Uh. Is this out from the active topics list for anyone else?

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Oh, posting fixed it

clear delta Feb 8, 2024, 10:44 AM

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queen heron maybe they’re connected to a specific one

Interesting idea

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 2:44 PM

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alright

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i just saw a really cool creature from Irish folklore

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dullahan vicksyBork basically headless knight, but he's also death he goes towards people that are scheduled to die and stuff

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if you look at it for too long it will cover u with blood and that marks u for death

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vicksyAww i could maybe do a hunt with that thing

midnight grotto Feb 8, 2024, 2:47 PM

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A vampire game I was in had a dullahan biker encounter

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 2:47 PM

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vicksyW

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tell me everything about it

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wixelsSit pls

clear delta Feb 8, 2024, 3:00 PM

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Oh, could have ghost trying to warn people of the dullahan

midnight grotto Feb 8, 2024, 3:14 PM

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grave gulch tell me everything about it

I honestly remember nothing

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 3:14 PM

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bonk

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 4:31 PM

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something interesting about using werewolves is that while i can understand their goals

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vicksyBork they are real violent

versed zodiac Feb 8, 2024, 5:14 PM

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That’s their hat!

rare swallow Feb 8, 2024, 7:08 PM

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That's what matters for most anything dealing with werewolves lol

versed zodiac Feb 8, 2024, 7:09 PM

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they're big furry killing machines

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 7:31 PM

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vicksyBork

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being a delivery guy on the day they decide to attack is not a great day

versed zodiac Feb 8, 2024, 7:45 PM

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indeed!

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 7:50 PM

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actually that sounds like a great way for someone to get in the world of the hunter

little light Feb 8, 2024, 8:58 PM

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grave gulch something interesting about using werewolves is that while i can understand thei...

The necessary minimum violence to succeed in their goals is pretty high

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 8:59 PM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1014538127722946600.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

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sucks for u if ur just passing by and stuff

versed zodiac Feb 8, 2024, 8:59 PM

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just don't work for Pentex

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or any of their subsidiaries

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or anyone who works with any of those companies

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or anyone that werewolves suspect might be affiliated with the aforementioned

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or just in the wrong place at the wrong time

velvet sparrow Feb 8, 2024, 9:00 PM

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Just don't be a human, ez

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 9:05 PM

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thing is

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vicksyEmpty 👈

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me

versed zodiac Feb 8, 2024, 9:06 PM

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in what regard lol

grave gulch Feb 8, 2024, 9:09 PM

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all of them wixelsICANT

versed zodiac Feb 8, 2024, 9:10 PM

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damn

rare swallow Feb 8, 2024, 9:21 PM

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Basically just don't be anything on the list of things werewolves dislike

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It's a big list

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Good luck

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 12:05 AM

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they dont call it “rage” against thr dying of the light for nothing

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 12:38 AM

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do werewolves dislike foks

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 12:41 AM

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Probably. They murdered most of the other shapeshifters

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 12:42 AM

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vicksySip

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that's a good point

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 12:43 AM

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Everything is murderous violence

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 12:48 AM

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Actually I'm not sure what the werewolf/kitsune relations are like

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I believe the latter were created after the War of Rage

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 12:58 AM

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vicksyThink

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 12:58 AM

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The relationship now is werewolves going "what the fuck is that" to other shifters

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Since they don't know much of anything about them

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 12:59 AM

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.w. oh yeah...that happened like....back when they were all created right?

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 1:00 AM

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It happened thousands of years ago probably maybe who knows

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 1:02 AM

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To my knowledge, it used to be a bunch of shifters, minus Werewolves, who then asked Gaia "wew this fighting the wyrm thing is hard, could we get some backup?", to which the werewolves were created

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 1:03 AM

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grave gulch do werewolves dislike foks

werewolves dislike other werewolves tbf

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 1:03 AM

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The werewolves then decided "We are clearly the best and most superior of everyone, so clearly we should be in charge and everyone should do what we tell them", to which the other shifters said "What? No, why would we do that?"

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And the werewolves responded by killing them all

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 1:15 AM

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vicksySip

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damn

versed zodiac Feb 9, 2024, 1:17 AM

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well

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not all

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but a lot of em

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 2:00 AM

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weresharks still around vicksyHappy

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 2:15 AM

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Most of them are, really

versed zodiac Feb 9, 2024, 2:16 AM

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Werebears are basically extinct right

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 2:16 AM

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There were only two that actually got wiped out, it's just that the rest were severely depleted and now pretty much live in hiding

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Basically, but not fully

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Except for the snake shifters, those are kinda weird

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They're not dead, but they pulled a big trick to make everyone remember them dying in the war

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 2:58 AM

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(All of this is now up in the air with W5 and you can do what you want)

rare swallow Feb 9, 2024, 12:10 PM

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What we can take away here is that Werewolves suuuuuck

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 12:28 PM

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ur pfp is very cute

rare swallow Feb 9, 2024, 5:30 PM

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Thanks

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 6:38 PM

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God help me Del might actually snap me out of my trauma and convince me Mage can be cool again

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 6:39 PM

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Del?

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 6:44 PM

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@orchid void

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 7:00 PM

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im doing my best

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and mage is cool when you don’t treat it like a superhero system

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:02 PM

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ur cool

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u have cool dogs

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at least i think i remember u posting pictures of them

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 7:04 PM

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I also have a Cool Mage (she is unwell)

versed zodiac Feb 9, 2024, 7:07 PM

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Mage is cool, just focus on the people problems

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 7:13 PM

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^

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Mages are people

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People with awesome, terrifying magical reality-defying powers, but ultimately they're still people, who want the same things people want and have the same flaws that people do

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 7:15 PM

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That can rip out and snack on your soul, catastrophically disrup spiritual ecosystems, and blow up spetacularly, but stil people

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 7:15 PM

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They are, imo, the most human of all the splats. Like, that's their thing. They're just kinda regular people (relatively speaking)

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Like, sure, they can kinda do some supernatural shenanigans, but like

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Normal humans can kill people, catastrophically distrupt ecosystems, and blow up spectacularly too

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Mages just kinda do it

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Like, more

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Not in the "They do it more often" sense, but in the like, more true, spiritual sense?

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And, this might be me going into a tangent coming from me knowing Ascension not Awakening, I feel like the way they should be played is as people at their most

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Mages are humanity at it's best

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And it's worst

midnight grotto Feb 9, 2024, 7:29 PM

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orchid void I also have a Cool Mage (she is unwell)

Mages are most fun when you lean into Obsessions and give them weird affectations related to their spellcasting practices

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The candle hat on yours is a great touch

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I think the webcomic Paranatural has a lot of good Mage looks

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:31 PM

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vicksySip

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are there mages that do spiritual stuff like that one vamp clan?

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 7:32 PM

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Yeah

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:32 PM

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i feel like i would like to have one that does that

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 7:32 PM

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wait what do you mean

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 7:32 PM

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grave gulch are there mages that do spiritual stuff like that one vamp clan?

You're going to have to be a lot more specific than that, but you're talking WoD, so the answer is "Yes"

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:33 PM

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uhhh, uses spirits for stuff vicksyThink can talk to them, get info or just straight up make em do stuff for me

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 7:33 PM

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Do you mean the Necromancers?

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:33 PM

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/449651567948464128/1089273877751943238/isthisfixed.gif

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yes

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 7:34 PM

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Vampires don't interact with spirits in WoD (Don't @ me about the Thaumaturgy path I disagree with it in concept)

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:34 PM

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oki vicksySip

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 7:34 PM

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Yeah, there's Mages who can interact with ghosts and such

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:34 PM

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what kind of stuff can you make them do?

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 7:34 PM

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🤷‍♀️

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Whatever you can convince/coerce/force them into doing

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:34 PM

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cool vicksyAww

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 7:34 PM

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Yeah essentially

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Foks do you want the OWoD or NWoD answer

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:36 PM

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i aint playing mage anytime soon vicksyLUL but lets go with Owod first

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 7:36 PM

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midnight grotto Mages are most fun when you lean into Obsessions and give them weird affectation...

I’m mostly leaning into “All of the Factions Are Mystery Cults” for why Lucy there is Normal

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 7:36 PM

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my new guy Tiamat is definitely not normal

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 7:37 PM

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When presented with her own personal Garden of Gethsemane she kinda rolled with it into becoming a spy detective for the Guardians

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:37 PM

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i mean, the process of being a mage is like opening your mind for a lot of crazy stuff is it not? them being a lil disturbed over it sounds fair .w.

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 7:38 PM

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“The unworthy must be kept from the Truth” leads pretty quickly to “Feed inconvenient witnesses to a vampire you’re gaslighting”

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 7:47 PM

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grave gulch i mean, the process of being a mage is like opening your mind for a lot of craz...

Well, using Lucy as our nWoD example, becoming a mage meant wandering until Distance stopped being a concept and the Devils of Pandaemonium could harrow her.

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The Devils were every wicked though she’d ever had, every base urge and selfish desire given flesh, until she could accept that she had done these things, accept that they were part of being alive and human, and not something that would weigh her down.

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Because Distance is a Lie. The Truth is close.

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 7:55 PM

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Perses got in the back of the head with a chair, woke up in Hell and had to climb out over the course of a year and a day.

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He woke up as soon as he hit the ground a Mage

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 7:58 PM

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vicksyThink spooky

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:08 PM

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You don't come away from touching the Supernal Realms unchanged, just the nature of interacting with higher realities and slipping the bonds of the Demiurge

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:50 PM

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... No one mentioned the Dreamspeakers from Owod? Mages specialized in the spirit world. Writers had to deal with the fact they wrote a faction that was a bunch animistic beliefs across the world shoved together. So they said the other mages were bogoted and shoved them together, and they bonded over that.
Mages from other traditions can learn to use spirit magic.

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Spirit sphere/arcanum is a part of both mage games

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:52 PM

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or you just play Thyrsus in nMage and enjoy Spirit/Life which does some stupid shit

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Make Hommuculi It’s Fine

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:52 PM

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Aren't they temporary?

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Spirits are useful because they don't suffer paradox

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And can have a variety of powers

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 8:53 PM

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clear delta ... No one mentioned the Dreamspeakers from Owod? Mages specialized in the spiri...

Most of us don't actually know owod

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:53 PM

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Huh

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 8:53 PM

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vicksyAww

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:53 PM

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I certainly know owod mage poorly

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Compared to like

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 8:54 PM

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I kinda thought people were still talking Chronicles

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:54 PM

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The Too Much Masquerade I know

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I mostly talk chronicles yeah

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 8:54 PM

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I didn't want to derail the convo

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 8:54 PM

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I mostly talk about Chronicles or 5th edition owod

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:54 PM

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Oh. Since it's skully's preference. I used what little I knew of dreamspeakers

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 8:54 PM

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You're pretty much right about them, yeah

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:54 PM

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Bc bluntly I kinda hate ascension due to Certain Kinds Of Guy who poisoned that well

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:55 PM

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Yeah, I know more of chornickes too, haha

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 8:55 PM

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vicksyAww

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:55 PM

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Thyrsus are fun. The great superorganism of the universe

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Human ego dissolved in the great web

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:55 PM

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it seems a fine game but I’ve got Awakening and it’s FINE please stop trying to tell me about the technocracy!!! Stop!!! Void Engineers are cool! That’s why they’re in the Free Council now!!!

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 8:56 PM

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I am contractually obligated from my job to give Asenscion a chance

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:57 PM

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mighty zephyr I am contractually obligated from my job to give Asenscion a chance

do you want me to get my oldhead roomie to do her oral history of the Week of Nightmares

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:57 PM

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orchid void it seems a fine game but I’ve got Awakening and it’s FINE please stop trying to ...

Seers of the throne cool villains. No good intentions. They want to help cage humanity for their own gain

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:58 PM

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grave gulch <:vicksyAww:1191819830714703922>

Cool use for spirits. Let them wear someone you dislike as a body

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:58 PM

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They are! We love a cult/conspiracy dedicated to the enshittification of the human spirit

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 8:58 PM

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orchid void do you want me to get my oldhead roomie to do her oral history of the Week of Ni...

If I have to hear about Mages killing a Vampire main antagonist again I will actually shapeshift into a crow-like creature and begin stealing people's eyes

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 8:58 PM

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mighty zephyr If I have to hear about Mages killing a Vampire main antagonist again I will act...

you are justified

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:58 PM

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mighty zephyr If I have to hear about Mages killing a Vampire main antagonist again I will act...

It was a team effort, anyway

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 8:59 PM

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It wasn't the Mages, it was the uh

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 8:59 PM

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It's much cooler to say vampires, werewolves and mages fought an ancient super vampire

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 8:59 PM

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It was vampires, werewolves, mages, and what finally killed it was the sun

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And also the uh

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I don't know what to call them

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The asian vampires

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 9:00 PM

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oh wait hey i can shotgun some Lucy stuff at here can't i

velvet sparrow Feb 9, 2024, 9:00 PM

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Sure!

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 9:00 PM

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velvet sparrow The asian vampires

Kuei jin? Heard their nane was stupid

sacred viper Feb 9, 2024, 9:00 PM

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Lucy!

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 9:00 PM

#


She asks what you would do if you found a fallen angel- a thing that had cursed the name of the creator and had fled in the wake of the Fall. She describes it for you, in great detail- as though she were describing an interesting engine she had seen at a mechanic's shop. The wings that flex along radial spirals, the eyes that whirl like a frightened cow's, the shape of some clockwork wrought by inhuman hands. Lucy, personally, suggests at the end of her recitation, the best idea was to remove it. Hide it away. It was not meant for men to know the stuff of heaven.

"Stuff your ears with wax, as Outis did to see the sirens, and speak little of what you saw. I am a Catholic myself, the parable is something my stepfather told me."```

#

lucy: how do i explain the abyss to a sleeper
lucy: i know
lucy: creepy parable.

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 9:12 PM

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"Do you imagine a forest as a singular thing? It is and isn't. Yellowstone is a place, a Noun. A Thing. Singular. But it's also infinite, down to the microbial life that seek to expand it's influence and it's trees and it's grass. So too is every nation, every planet, every realm. So to is the Abyss. It's a Thing, singular, yet it also is an ecosystem, a hungry yawning void of infinity that wishes to reach it's claws into us and the Supernal. You have to imagine that the divide doesn't stop there, right? Just as much as the wolf and deer play their cycle in the Fallen, one must see that the Fallen is the Deer and the Abyss the Wolf in yet another, grander play."```

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 9:12 PM

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velvet sparrow And, this might be me going into a tangent coming from me knowing Ascension not ...

oh i missed this but i want to say, you're sorta on the right shape for Awakening- the Mages in Awakening are all on journeys of enlightenment, working through Symbols and Mysteries and Obsessions as they try and find the Truth, the Supernal. The very personal journey of enlightenment, for better and for worse, is a deeply human one, and sometimes it means engaging in cold war shit with the Seers of the Throne

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 9:13 PM

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mighty zephyr ```The haggard man smiles. It's a tired one, but with the air of a light chuckle...

i want to be fair to tiamat here, but Wolves tend not to Unmake The Concept of Deer when they catch them

midnight grotto Feb 9, 2024, 9:14 PM

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Delilah do you want me to make you mad with something I saw an Ascension fan say about Awakening

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 9:15 PM

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orchid void i want to be fair to tiamat here, but Wolves tend not to Unmake The Concept of D...

Eater of Names, checkMATE athiests.

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 9:16 PM

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midnight grotto Delilah do you want me to make you mad with something I saw an Ascension fan say...

no because i was in the thick of edition wars on /tg/

#

i probably have already seen and hated it

midnight grotto Feb 9, 2024, 9:18 PM

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Fair

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 9:32 PM

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velvet sparrow And, this might be me going into a tangent coming from me knowing Ascension not ...

its the core for awakening, too

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Mages magnify

grave gulch Feb 9, 2024, 9:32 PM

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clear delta Cool use for spirits. Let them wear someone you dislike as a body

oh dear vicksyLUL

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 9:33 PM

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That's Tiamat baby

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The Flesh and the Shadow fuse together into the Divine

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 9:37 PM

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orchid void ```She just waits for you to finish speaking, then begins again, gently weaving ...

(very guardian parable, too)

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The Abyss as Sin

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 9:42 PM

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She’s in the Inheirtors and is really hoping the Heiromagus is Real and Soon

heady kestrel Feb 9, 2024, 9:59 PM

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Thinking about the Trimori(I think that is what they are called) again

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Atlantean banishers

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 10:02 PM

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i'm reading m20 and there's so much racism

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 10:03 PM

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midnight grotto Delilah do you want me to make you mad with something I saw an Ascension fan say...

pm me this I'm curious

spice abyss Feb 9, 2024, 10:09 PM

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mighty zephyr i'm reading m20 and there's so much racism

Darn that Satyros

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 10:10 PM

#

what

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 10:10 PM

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Big writer for m20

spice abyss Feb 9, 2024, 10:12 PM

#

Satyros Brutcatto, certified nutjob

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 10:33 PM

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And how he talks of trans people too

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 10:35 PM

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He's The Neopagan Guy that injected a shitload of it to old Werewolf Apoc books

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 10:35 PM

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And religion. He says that, in real life, the Abrahamic religions are trying to kick off the apocalypse in the Middle East

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 10:36 PM

#

anyway

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Eat Around The Garbage

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this is how you play a lot of oWoD

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Lets Not Get Into It!

mighty zephyr Feb 9, 2024, 10:38 PM

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Yeah let's not

sacred viper Feb 9, 2024, 10:38 PM

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Cool Mage fact now!

versed zodiac Feb 9, 2024, 10:38 PM

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quick, someone make a divisive comment about a gameline that hasn't been mentioned yet

midnight grotto Feb 9, 2024, 10:38 PM

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orchid void He's The Neopagan Guy that injected a shitload of it to old Werewolf Apoc books

was he the one who added the blurb in a W20 draft about werewolf society being broadly transphobic

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 10:38 PM

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Brucato wrote a changing breeds book for chronicles. When there was already a good equivalent. And his own was unbalanced, racist and unbearably horny and fetishy

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 10:39 PM

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sacred viper Cool Mage fact now!

mage fact: heiromagus real

spice abyss Feb 9, 2024, 10:39 PM

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clear delta Brucato wrote a changing breeds book for chronicles. When there was already a go...

Don't forget all the shit

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 10:39 PM

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right i'm going to be a bit clearer

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i'd really prefer we didn't just go through the ever-motions of The Part That Sucks

spice abyss Feb 9, 2024, 10:40 PM

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Don't talk about Brutcato, got it

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 10:40 PM

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it will do nothing but make us all upset

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so its not worth bringing up

#

yes?

spice abyss Feb 9, 2024, 10:40 PM

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Agreed

midnight grotto Feb 9, 2024, 10:40 PM

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sorry about that

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 10:40 PM

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Okay!

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 10:40 PM

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good!

versed zodiac Feb 9, 2024, 10:40 PM

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I'm starting a VtM campaign set in Ottawa soon and I'm gonna be using the fact that Montreal is a major Sabbat stronghold in old lore to insinuate the Bloc Vampirique into existence

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kinda wondering how to ease the players (Camarilla-aligned coterie) into a sect war intrigue plot

clear delta Feb 9, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

Anyway. Thinking about how the primal wild mostly sees the mind as an adaptation.
And the batshit persona fact that humans do the weird magic shit with their thoughts and feelings because Nyx is an alien that caused them to adapt psychic powers as a defense.

orchid void Feb 9, 2024, 10:56 PM

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well, Pandaemonium seems to regard flesh as a useful sympathetic connection to the Mind, which is just as funny of a lens

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grew a body so you could have physical power

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 11:20 PM

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sacred viper Cool Mage fact now!

its implied / outright stated that Emrys’s Ascension changed the Acanthus path to incorporate faeries as a major sytlistic element

#

before, it was generally more about celestial movements, the whims of changing weather, and edicts of fate from on-high

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Fate came from The Gods

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now, it comes from your own personal choices

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(at least in how its presented)

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 11:24 PM

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orchid void well, Pandaemonium seems to regard flesh as a useful sympathetic connection to t...

always funny to see Mastigos react to Matter being a real and true thing

#

”Its all just perspectives, thinking things are all thats relevant, everything else is the lie”
“Hey this Obsidian has some Supernal Resonance”
“ >:( “

queen heron Feb 9, 2024, 11:30 PM

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queen heron now, it comes from your own personal choices

this part is really fun when you look at how Medraut / Exarchal fate cults are built

#

Right now Fate in the phenomenal is based around individuals damning themselves with their actions, and Merlin helped enshrine that

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but is that worse than Fate being out of your control?

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Is doing some Ruin / Prophet stuff worthwhile, if you can ascend without intervention because of it? Is damning Utopia an easy cost, if you can sneak in some footholds?

orchid void Feb 10, 2024, 12:19 AM

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queen heron always funny to see Mastigos react to Matter being a real and true thing

“but it’s a rock. it doesn’t have agency.”
“and now it’s uranium bye”

clear delta Feb 10, 2024, 12:20 AM

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Dropping a piano on a demon from pandemonium

orchid void Feb 10, 2024, 12:20 AM

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geotic demons deserve it sometimes

clear delta Feb 10, 2024, 12:21 AM

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Stopping a mastigos with concrete

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Meanwhile beasts from the primal wild are vulnerable to existential crises and anxiety

midnight grotto Feb 10, 2024, 12:38 AM

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sacred viper Cool Mage fact now!

insane paleolithic mages wandering around the astral plane while their perserved bodies lie in ancient barrows

clear delta Feb 10, 2024, 12:41 AM

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The first mages to get organized and more powerful than others in this timeline were scelesti

queen heron Feb 10, 2024, 3:42 AM

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clear delta Stopping a mastigos with concrete

tbh
if theres one path that wouldn't be stopped by concrete its Mastigos

spice abyss Feb 10, 2024, 3:50 AM

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All things are connected, distance is an illusion, etc.

mighty zephyr Feb 10, 2024, 3:54 AM

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Decided to try and make a 20th Mage

#

Making a Spirit-mage who's got Luna as a patron.

mighty zephyr Feb 10, 2024, 7:04 AM

#

Cowboy Werewolf update

#

the deputy marshal has ripped out a filling they had to fufill a spirit's bane of "Lead that hasn't seen the light of the sun in ten years"

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and had their gun spirit turn it into a bullet

#

Then rolled a 6 on the shot

#

and fucking killed a Rank 4 spirit

sacred viper Feb 10, 2024, 7:22 AM

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midnight grotto insane paleolithic mages wandering around the astral plane while their perserved...

Grandpa when the kids dont visit every 5 minutes

orchid void Feb 10, 2024, 7:28 AM

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midnight grotto insane paleolithic mages wandering around the astral plane while their perserved...

THE STONE PILOTS RULE

clear delta Feb 10, 2024, 8:47 AM

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Old mage idea. Group of mages dissociated from their bodies who accidentally connect to the umbra when awakening and make pacts with spirit patrons. Maybe their deal involves swapping places and letting the spirit use their body while they wander astrally.

patent talon Feb 10, 2024, 12:35 PM

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Maybe I should roll up a mage character.....

#

It'd be good to have in the back pocket

mighty zephyr Feb 10, 2024, 3:02 PM

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mighty zephyr and fucking killed a Rank 4 spirit

In addition to this they Spit out blood prior to firing the shot and the bullet itself bled out of the cylinder

#

It was the coolest fucking thing

#

I've seen in a game

versed zodiac Feb 10, 2024, 3:48 PM

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Alright, I’ve drafted something I’m happy with so far. I’m gonna have my players up against an invading Sabbat pack (Necronomists, led by a soft-spoken, dainty but absolutely deadly Blood Sorcerer called Cemetery Flowers), leading them in with an investigative job as a coterie tracking down a major Masquerade breach by a low-ranking nobody Camarilla (name of Daniel Tanner) who’s been doing Flowers’ bidding as a malcontent looking for a way out of a bad blood bond situation with their sire

orchid void Feb 11, 2024, 2:57 AM

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patent talon It'd be good to have in the back pocket

Sometimes it’s useful to throw an insane wizard at the party as A Problem

clear delta Feb 11, 2024, 3:00 AM

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orchid void Sometimes it’s useful to throw an insane wizard at the party as A Problem

Love Spiral

clear delta Feb 11, 2024, 11:25 AM

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Idea for a legacy. Sort of a counterpart to Spiral. They turn their bodies and souls into prisons for dark spirits, gaining sympathetic connections to similar spirits.
Masters, after a while doing their thing and training apprentices, are ritually killed to kill their prisoners and, through sympathy, affect the shadow

queen heron Feb 11, 2024, 11:41 AM

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ooo, pull on Sin-Eaters or Scapegoats

#

Spirit as an Arcanum is often dealing with communities

#

literally taking bad-group-vibes into yourself and then dying to cleanse that 'sin'

#

Guardians would love that one

#

though I'd probably not have them actually die at the end

#

just idk, torture them a lot see if that works. maybe keep the murder as a back pocket option.

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Mastigos spirit legacy? Purify the world through integration of its darkness, and then (very painful) purification of the self?

clear delta Feb 11, 2024, 12:11 PM

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Oh, had seen it as thyrsus. Could be both

#

I think I had a whole thing for how it fits thyrsus, but forgot

queen heron Feb 11, 2024, 12:18 PM

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I just think of the eating metaphor for them

#

predators

#

maybe a bit of...

#

The Thyrsus esctasy? More than any path they feel the Supernal as inside of them

#

They draw these forces into them, and in doing so, it becomes them

#

and they become it

#

no boundaries

clear delta Feb 11, 2024, 12:32 PM

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Also, their idea of similar spirits being manifestation of tge same archetypes

mighty zephyr Feb 11, 2024, 5:23 PM

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I remixed my AwMage for a an AsMage

velvet sparrow Feb 11, 2024, 5:23 PM

#

Yeah, that way works

#

Other way doesn't sadcowboy

grave gulch Feb 11, 2024, 7:25 PM

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met folks at the shopping playint Vtm

#

got thei contacts

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vicksyAww i hope we can be friends

clear delta Feb 11, 2024, 7:27 PM

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Nice!

#

Met one friend group playing changeling the lost in my college building

mighty zephyr Feb 12, 2024, 6:13 AM

#

I have read old mage

#

Man I hope it gets a rewrite

#

In 5th

#

Good ideas but hampered by itself so much

clear delta Feb 12, 2024, 10:48 AM

#

20th edition only? Or revised too?

mighty zephyr Feb 12, 2024, 1:47 PM

#

clear delta 20th edition only? Or revised too?

Both

orchid void Feb 13, 2024, 5:21 AM

#

my brain has been cooking a spicy mage take

#

the game and most narratives break if the mage uses their magic like an engineer

#

ie: efficient and smart and well thought out exploitation of the very Freeform toolkit

#

so make characters who won’t do that

#

make dumber characters

mighty zephyr Feb 13, 2024, 5:27 AM

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Correct

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:28 AM

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Isn’t it equally part of the Storyteller’s job description to throw wrenches into any engineer-like solutions players come up with

#

As well as being on the players to make fun characters, the storyteller also needs to tell a fun story

heady kestrel Feb 13, 2024, 5:29 AM

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If the mages keep making weird enchanted object piles, have the seers send some mortal goons

Erode their asses

#

But yeah making some dumbass mages is fun

#

(I forget the proper term for sleepers hurting magic items)

orchid void Feb 13, 2024, 5:30 AM

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versed zodiac Isn’t it equally part of the Storyteller’s job description to throw wrenches int...

it is but i too often see folks who only want to play the game “perfectly” and end up making it boring

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:30 AM

#

oh yeah no

orchid void Feb 13, 2024, 5:31 AM

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we’re playing improv here so pitch in and make that wizard more dumb

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:31 AM

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machinelike logic PCs are fun once in a blue moon

#

if you give them appropriate flaws

#

but optimal play is BORIIIIIING

orchid void Feb 13, 2024, 5:31 AM

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Like yeah i can use Time and break the game over my knee, but thats sucks

#

why do that

#

use Time better by using it worse

heady kestrel Feb 13, 2024, 5:32 AM

#

I do feel like wisdom is annoying because as a game mechanic it encourages you to solve problems as a utilitarian moral agent who wants to minimize the amount of uses of magic and maximize the output of the spells you use

orchid void Feb 13, 2024, 5:32 AM

#

The morality stat always has some perverse incentives

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:33 AM

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one of the things I like about VtM so far is that it lays the hammer on optimal-play-munchkinning real hard

heady kestrel Feb 13, 2024, 5:33 AM

#

I am just speaking for mages specifically their morality stat coincides with their optimal play

#

Which feels like it defeats the point of why you usually introduce such a thing in the first place

orchid void Feb 13, 2024, 5:34 AM

#

but i feel like it’s a perverse incentive because, well, i think you should stop thinking of it as “don’t do that” list and more of a “okay so what kinda scenes do i get for sinning”

#

“where do the writers think the Drama Points are”

#

yah?

mighty zephyr Feb 13, 2024, 5:34 AM

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versed zodiac one of the things I like about VtM so far is that it lays the hammer on optimal-...

It's actually what I like a lot about 5th edition in general

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:34 AM

#

mmm

mighty zephyr Feb 13, 2024, 5:34 AM

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is that it has so far had a lot of in-built "no you're a fucking weirdo, act like it" rules

heady kestrel Feb 13, 2024, 5:34 AM

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To me, the morality meters have always read like a second health bar you spend to do bad things

Which is probably a bad way to look at them but that is why I never really enjoyed them

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:35 AM

#

is pretty thorough about saying "no powergaming, you're a vampire, start acting like one"

mighty zephyr Feb 13, 2024, 5:35 AM

#

It's why I really like Harmony

#

As a concept

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:35 AM

#

also like

#

idk

#

the Stains mechanic goes hard

#

lots of wiggleroom is provided before you get punished

orchid void Feb 13, 2024, 5:35 AM

#

versed zodiac one of the things I like about VtM so far is that it lays the hammer on optimal-...

so i can no longer build the Super Brujah in five minutes that’s good to know

versed zodiac Feb 13, 2024, 5:36 AM

#

Also there’s some Powers that cost Stains and you know what

#

Sick.

#World of Darkness