I remember one of the first criticisms of NMage was that the Hermetics got spread over 4 Orders, while the other Trads all got crammed into one. Wasn't really fair, but it popped up often enough.
#World of Darkness
hidden rock
queen heron
FC needed more specific cults in it, they're kinda flavorless in aggregate
NMage also leans a little into reality changing beyond comprehensibility, with the Exarchs
clear delta
Lack of opposition has been shown to be bad for the human psyche. And we run into the Gentry again, since they need oppisition
NMage does have subjectivity in that, since Truth is beyond them, mages work off five watered down models of it
And all are valid ways to engage with the world
mighty zephyr
One thing I hope Mage 5th does not do
is return to "Mage is the ultimate version of the WoD cosmology"
queen heron
I heard Old-Demon had interesting stuff in its cosmology
Old Mage is probably easier to strip the rightness out of than New Mage though
mighty zephyr
It's harder actually
queen heron
oh?
mighty zephyr
Because Mage deals with the Umbra instead of the Supernal Realms
the Umbra is also the Werewolf thing
hidden rock
The big issue is having mage players accept that their character's bias and hubris means they don't have all the answers about the cosmology, even if they have the ability to manipulate it
mighty zephyr
The problem with Old Mage is that the WRITERS did
hidden rock
yeeeeeeeeep
mighty zephyr
And they wrote their objective truths about things and enforced it through game design.
hidden rock
Well, it's inevitable to a degree, but it really went overboard at times
grave gulch
kinda like Ino from guilty gear? 
clear delta
NMage doesn't really have rightness? They just invade other games' realms and mess up stuff there.
The supernal is truth, but it's beyond full understanding. Mages get a limited tap to it
hidden rock
There's a reason Mages are a goddamn headache in multi-splat games beyond the sheer power imbalance: the themes tend to encroach on pretty much everyone else's and taking away from their enjoyment.
mighty zephyr
queen heron
NMage doesn't really have rightness? They just invade other games' realms and me...
probably the best way to phrase it
mighty zephyr
Obligatory
queen heron
Mages are right, but they are also absolutely also wrong faster lmao
mighty zephyr
NuMages just colonize other splats.
Their attitudes on everything else are the attitudes of colonialists
hidden rock
Mages *are* right, but they are also absolutely also wrong faster lmao
Mage is very "task failed succesfully"
clear delta
Mages *are* right, but they are also absolutely also wrong faster lmao
They just have a tap to truth they can misinterpret.
queen heron
see thats the occultism coming back
I like the reframing NMage does to wizards as fundementally a bunch of cults
clear delta
Like, they know a bit how the spirit work plays, but still screw up interacting practically because they don't belong there, and cause i terference
hidden rock
Mages are at their best when they're opinionated babies carrying flamethrowers
queen heron
I know someone whos described new mage as a game about seeing what you want, and deciding how many lines in the sand you're willing to cross to get it
I dont disagree
if you're cynical thats where the horror comes in
clear delta
Playing as more down to earth mortal occultists seems interesting
grave gulch
by new mage game? 
which one is that?
queen heron
"reality is fundementally unchangable" "you can never understand the world, and it will kill you for trying" and "power doesn't lead to anything but larger scale suffering"
queen heron
by new mage game? <:vicksyThink:996566524225663086> which one is that?
Mage The Awakening
its the Mage game for Chronicles
queen heron
Ascensions the one for the WoD
grave gulch
which one wants to make everyone god?
queen heron
kinda both tbh
hidden rock
Yes
grave gulch
is chronicles the one with the sexist mages from tokyo?
clear delta
Yes
queen heron
turning into gods means different things in each one though
queen heron
grave gulch
that's probably a thing tbh
yakuza owns a lot of stuff .w.
you just don't necessarily know about it
clear delta
Ah, meant more
Idol who's also a yakuza member
mighty zephyr
Majima
clear delta
Could also use kiryu coco
mighty zephyr
clear delta
Majima as a recurring enemy
sacred viper
<:vicksyBork:996566504311099533> is chronicles the one with the sexist mages fr...
nWoD splats that are weird about Tokyo: atleast 2
midnight grotto
That's because I think all the Tokyo writeups were by one white author who lived there for a while and is weird about it
sacred viper
Yeah that sounds right
midnight grotto
I do like some of the material
midnight grotto
The Mage one is also weird because there's a line implying the author is actively getting Seers and Technocrats mixed up
clear delta
But the way the factions refer to themselves is stupid
clear delta
The Mage one is also weird because there's a line implying the author is activel...
Wait what
midnight grotto
The nakatomi thing is interesting
A funny thing I discovered is that even Japanese people just think of Die Hard when they see that name
clear delta
But the way the factions refer to themselves is stupid
"We are the First Party, the other factions are the Second Party"
What does it have to do with Die Hard?
midnight grotto
Wait what
There's a line that goes something like "Japan is full of progress and technology... But also superstitions and tradition! The Seers are kinda thrown off by it."
midnight grotto
What does it have to do with Die Hard?
It takes place in Nakatomi Plaza
That's the building in Die Hard
clear delta
There's a line that goes something like "Japan is full of progress and technolog...
This causes me physical pain
midnight grotto
I may be doing it disservice but that's how I remember it
queen heron
That's because I think all the Tokyo writeups were by one white author who lived...
still think her Changeling had ideas better than 2es core though
clear delta
A funny thing I discovered is that even Japanese people just think of Die Hard w...
I like the idea of Nakatomi just being straight up invented.
queen heron
unless Im getting my writers mixed up
midnight grotto
You may be right, I think she may have changed her name so my associations may be jumbled
clear delta
Or that nakatomi was a scelestus
midnight grotto
still think her Changeling had ideas better than 2es core though
I wasn't crazy about them but they were SOMETHING
Changeling 2E mostly just bounced off me
Which is very bad for Changeling. Changeling needs to make an impression
queen heron
I may be doing it disservice but that's how I remember it
forward in technology and social development in many ways, but
standing behind the rest of the world in others. Scientists make
leaps and bounds in robotics technology, but you can’t use an
ATM past 7 P.M. because the elderly are concerned about not
being able to connect with a live support person. This contrast,
this dissonance, is a perfect vehicle for Seer intervention. ```
```The Seers fight tooth and nail to keep the recording industry
tied to physical CDs in opposition to digital services, because
wider distribution breeds wider availability. Keep it petty. Keep it
immediate. Keep it all locked down. They push hard to maintain
the popularity of highly formulaic, rigidly ruled idol groups, to
keep the populace throwing their time and savings into the same
thing over and over. They promote racially charged political
policies in spite of public trends, to keep the people distracted.
They play a game of diversion, and they play it well. ```hmm
start ups the same
looks like its more presented as the Seers reviling in it though
clear delta
Yeah
queen heron
still kinda clunky first paragraph
midnight grotto
I may just be misremembering it
clear delta
I do find interesting the idea of a petty leader who'd burn it all down or let the abyss swallow all before letting things not go his way.
All that cosmic power
In an example of how mages screw up
clear delta
Drag him into an ansho. Those are places in tokyo that basically shut down mages
grave gulch
cooool
clear delta
Every year they may change the areas they cover, get more area to cover, or stay the same. They never decrease, and may one day cover all of tokyo.
grave gulch
does oWoD have something like that as well?
queen heron
I guess just Consensus overall?
makes magic harder if it doesnt fit, and even then
growing a bit beyond the Technocracy's control
you also wouldn't need it as often as afaik oWoD wizards rely on tools and rituals more
at least to do the big stuff
heady kestrel
Banishers in Nwod are funny because anytime they meet up its like the most cursed group of people
Banishers are like
Reddit atheist, Christian fundamentalist, FBI agent, domestic terrorist blunt rotation
clear delta
And the weirdos addicted to eating magic
I like the idea of banishers who just obfuscate mysteries harder. Just pure nonsense and misinformation
They can straight up curse mages so that supernal power is harder for them to access and parse.
hidden rock
I still love my NMage Paris setup. Just the idea of the FC meeting on the 2nd floor of a LGBTQ bar owned by a witch felt like the most simple and logical approach.
midnight grotto
Definitely
sacred viper
Its a fucking vibe
hidden rock
Favorite little detail: the Seers have fled the city since 2019, when their local Paternoster Minister and their pylon at Notre-Dame was burned to the ground.
clear delta
I like finding parallels in a path's arcana.
The obrimos arcana having their own theme of communication and transmission
Hmm, how would an obrimos mind legacy based on junk information and interference work, philosophically?
mighty zephyr
TO SEE THE TRUTH OF THE WORLD ONE MUST FIRST MASTER EVERY POSSIBLE LIE
clear delta
Very good
Could be specialists in misinformation and ignorance, and how to see through them
queen heron
Perfect for a split oentacle / seer legacy
mighty zephyr
I'm blanking on the names of Orders
queen heron
sounds like the Minor Prime ministry
mighty zephyr
who're the secret police guys who maintain the lie
queen heron
Guardians
queen heron
Mysterium could work too
sleepers are interference, raw truth gets buried and washed away
you learn how to sift the real stuff out
clear delta
who're the secret police guys who maintain the lie
Oh yeah. Their recursive labyrinth broke a guy and he became a banisher after awakening. Great job, guys!
Adamantine arrow members could be about fighting misinformation, I guess? Or confusing enemies.
mighty zephyr
Adamantine Arrows gaslight themselves on purpose
I will destroy my ability to percieve reality and through will alone learn to piece together what I know to be true
clear delta
Adamantine Arrows gaslight themselves on purpose
No one can know your master plan if you don't know it
Just try to figure out as you go
mighty zephyr
COGITO ERGO SUM
I THINK THEREFORE I AM
I will reduce the universe itself down to my mind and then expand my mind to be the universe.
clear delta
COGITO ERGO SUM
I just think of the hate monologue, seeing this in all caps
mighty zephyr
good
queen heron
it does sound very Mastigos as well
clear delta
Prime and mind unmaking on the battlefield
Figure out on the spot what's going on after you wipe the knowledge away from everyone
And filling them with lies and illusions
queen heron
would be fun to have the demons quantum lying ability as an attainment
clear delta
Oooh
Saw this from a game. Attainment, nimbus, or supernal being they discovered and recorded in their grimoires.
In the rare handful of authenticated accounts, Mythus' form is described as a broken and torn "jellyfish," akin to a deliberately destroyed version of... the "cognitive" center of the human brain. Its appearance is always accompanied by a fog of thoughts and rain of sensation. Symbolic objects dissolve like paint within their shadow. History, knowledge, and language are soaked, drenched, and distorted in the deluge
Really, what got me interested in distortion of information
The Riddlers have a saying: every time that an enigma manifests in the universe, it will leave behind a "staircase" in the void. The dissolved realities will then drip down the steps, condensing into a mottled thing bearing semblance to a jellyfish. There was once a Nameless who claimed to have made contact with a "Jellyfish on the Staircase." In madness, he proclaimed that the jellyfish will activate the cognition regions within the gray matter of one's brain a vast place beyond the fathoming of mortal minds.
clear delta
Hmm. Checking out beast stuff.
Anathema should instead be something you pick for your character
A thematic weakness
sacred viper
Anathema's are one of the few parts of B***t I like
Me when an idiot who knows nothing decides Im weak to a holy weapon (their taser gun) and they brute-force reality into agreeing with them,
clear delta
Okay, this is funny
But crafting the weaknesses and rules of your monster could've been cool
Beasts feel weird in the way they're constructed. From looking it up online. Families and hungers only feel sorta inspiring. I think only the last book had focus on their interactions with the astral?
The gameplay loop seems to be acting as a criminal with a weird MO or being a bit of a jerk in daily life
sacred viper
Yeah Beast is, even ignoring all of its real controversies and messed up aspects, one of those games I have no idea what you would playing it
clear delta
Too bad. I think it took the astral splat seat, as the counterpart to werewolves and sin-eaters
Though mages are quite involved in the astral too
clear delta
Looking at tokyo in werewolf 2e sure is. Something
About the Cicada-Hosts. "The best defense against the Semi is thick walls, coupled with passionate, nubile neighbors to drown out the noise."
clear delta
Oh, the Hosts in werewolf are. Some weird creatures between flesh and spirit that puppet human corpses
Most are ancient gods split into shards. They usually mess with the gauntlet in some way
Azlu, the spider hosts, are shards of spinner hag and make the gauntlet stronger in some way.
spice abyss
And the Beshilu, the Rat Host, are shard of the Plague King. They chew through the gauntlet and make it weirder.
Azlu are also aracnaphobic nightmare fuel and you 100% need to check with your players first.
mighty zephyr
Beast is fun
Your main gameplay loop is trying not to die while finding ways to make your Lair bigger.
spice abyss
And to make your Lair bigger, you have to find places where bad things happened.
Which means, combined with the fact that Beasts can observe what happened in such places in the past, you can be a really good supernatural investigator.
clear delta
An astral game about investigation could be cool
Did think of a reporter hunter who can access the astral realms
spice abyss
Since trauma is an integral part of how you feed as a Beast, one good thing to do is find people who deserve it.
Which is a good list in Chronicles of Darkness.
Lesson Culture is bullshit and shouldn't be written as the base assumption.
But being able to arrive things like that with the mechanics presented is cool.
clear delta
Lesson Culture is bullshit and shouldn't be written as the base assumption.
From what I saw, feels weird that almost all those astral hybrids would conceive of their life purpose like that. You'd think more of them would just want to feed in the least harmful way possible out of morality or just avoiding trouble, then go back to routine.
spice abyss
Indeed.
Like I said, Lesson Culture is trash.
Like, if you want to try and keep your hands clean, you can Trolley Problem it.
clear delta
Oh, beasts can feed from other supernaturals doing their thing. Could they feed on mundane things they aren't the cause of?
spice abyss
Potentially, yes.
clear delta
Like, working on disaster relief
spice abyss
It's better for your Horror if you do it yourself.
But if you're starving and free roaming.
Technically your hands are clean.
If your horror hunts indiscriminately, that's not you causing it after all.
And it means you don't have to set things up yourself to feed it.
Technically speaking, that is some sort of positive morality.
mighty zephyr
Feeding on "detritus" is a nibbling source of food
If you need to sustain an equalized level of hunger it's good
spice abyss
If you keep the Horror hungry but not starving, you only need to do relatively small things.
mighty zephyr
But if you NEED a lot Satiety you gotta be proactive
spice abyss
Like the one guy in my group who had a Horror who hungered for Dominance
And became middle management from hell at a best buy.
mighty zephyr
If your horror hunts indiscriminately, that's not *you* causing it after all.
(It technically is)
Ha
Beast Buy
spice abyss
(The horror is in fact you yes)
He would also use his powers to disguise himself and go to other stores
And act like nightmare customers.
It's not good and objectively shitty to do
But he's vastly limiting what could be happening.
mighty zephyr
My Beast Connie was essentially forcibly domesticated by the local Mage order and so made pacts with the Autumn Courts and Circle of the Crone to essentially be a guard dog/corpse disposal whenever he wanted to kill someone.
He'd let Changelings stay in his lair EXPRESSLY to lure their Huntsmen out of hiding
spice abyss
Yep!
If you want to as a Beast, you can be a good monster.
It just takes active work.
mighty zephyr
Oh no Connie sucked
spice abyss
All Beasts have that undercurrent of sucking.
mighty zephyr
He just had to find "acceptable" forms of Murder
clear delta
Anyway, a funny idea. The astral doesn't like losing stuff, and sends living holes to take it back.
So beast campaign that ends because the astral police arrests everyone.
spice abyss
Even my troll who actively protected the homeless population was only doing it because it was an easy source of food.
clear delta
Hunters and beasts are taken in abd forced to returns the dream stuff
spice abyss
Heh, fun
clear delta
You guys ever made demonology important to the astral? Besides how mastigos symbolically call the beings demons and use solomon's system.
Like, making the divine comedy structure matter to it. Making demonic astral beings important.
mighty zephyr
Man
the Wellspring rite is fucking jacked
in WtF
As soon as my pack does it they ALL get Influence 4 (Storms)
sacred viper
WHAT THR FUUUUCK
mighty zephyr
They went on a hunt for a 4-dot Locus of Death
and their Itheur Resonance Shaped it into a Storm Locus
So now if they Wellspring they're ALL gonna get Influences equal to the dots in locus
mighty zephyr
This will ALSO give their Totem Storms (5) with dots to spare actually
what the fuck
clear delta
Your werewolf game seems to be going well
grave gulch
make em kill those dorky fox hunters
mighty zephyr
Your werewolf game seems to be going well
It is!
grave gulch
so i got a part of this idea from hunter the parenting
grave gulch
mighty zephyr
Go ahead tho
grave gulch
for the one shot/first hunt i was thinking of having my players investigate a missing person's report in a village near London 
a lonely gangrel would be the culprit 
one of the victims found with some big claw marks, too big for any animal in the region
they don't know what a gangrel is of course
it's a simple idea 
but i feel like something simple is good for the very first game
mighty zephyr
Yeah sounds good
grave gulch
neat neat
clear delta
Yup. Good intro to the darkness
grave gulch
good to know, i gotta flesh out the idea a bit more i think
clear delta
Idea for mastigos gaming:
-Link your sensations sympathetically with the enemies.
-Stack environmental tilts on the area.
-Don't activate the forces attainment that protects you.
grave gulch
what's a mastigo?
clear delta
So, in new mage
Each mage belongs to one of five paths
The mastigos path is one of flaws, endurance, and sorta conflict?
They use mind and space
Their keywords
Are transgression and confrontation
Their awakening generally embodies their vices, neuroses abd traumas, and or the issues in their relationships to people and society. And they need to face them to progress
Lemme grab something. The wiki is focused mostly on first edition, which has a slightly different vibe
From the book: magic is the soul's journey between Temperance and the Devil, through the maze of all desires.
We Awaken to to the reality of our transgressions to confront our joys and sins. Your true self is a demon, trapped in an Iron Gauntlet. Release it, and it can take you anywhere.
grave gulch
neat
clear delta
One of the things they can summon traps the mage and a target in a magical prison for years. Another, hurts you, decreasing physical traits, but boosts mental traits I think, both lasting for a duration.
clear delta
Turning weakness into strength is a thing they do. They cultivate their flaws and issues, then summon them
Muscle wizard?
grave gulch
you can voost mental traits at the cost of decreasing physical ones
does it work the other way around too?
clear delta
Yeah, you can neglect mental traits. Though thematically, mages are academics. Their terminal curiosity often lands them into trouble.
Oooh. Boost body at cost of mind? Don't think I've seen it.
clear delta
You could create that. Magic is rather freeform.
But temporary
There are lasting and indefinite effects, but most magic is temporary
grave gulch
that's neat
clear delta
that's neat <:vicksyAww:1191819830714703922>
You can use runes to create indefinite effects, but they end once the rune are broken or erased
grave gulch
could those work after the mages death?
clear delta
So, we get into the nechanics of spell control. If a mage dies, all spells get get disconnected unsafely. Over time, they'll corrupt
grave gulch
i was wondering if i could have a game surrounding that
so a bunch of weird shit can happen?
clear delta
I need to look again. But it'll be like paradox. Corrupting paraneters of the spell. Dunno of it can cause an abyssal manifestation
grave gulch
maybe not an abyssal thingy, but it can still be dangerous right?
or cause some weird things to happen like...objects getting teleported to weird plaves?
clear delta
Eh, do it if you want.
The paradox effects in the book are just change target, distort spell traits (potency, scale), creating an abyssal effect in the area, summon abyssal entity.
Get creative! Mages love when something unusual happen. They get all curious! An unusual defect in the spell not covered in the rules is fine.
Anyway, a space spell paradox could be used for your idea
An indefinite spell to connect locations
grave gulch
that's cool, thanks for the suggesiton
clear delta
Oh yeah. Now it's canon that an ancient mastigos queen had a bloody reign.
Through these secondhand legends, a picture emerges of a tribeswoman who Awakened as a Mastigos and carved a queendom out of the Maghreb, turning her nomadic people into a bandit army that worshipped her as a goddess, and enforced her rule with spells and summoned Pandemonic demons.
Over her reign, Qherephis became more and more extreme and her Ruin fortress developed into a Pandemonic Verge. Her army enslaved whole tribes and dragged them to the shifting labyrinth of the mad queen, fuel for the mass human sacrifices needed to gather enough Mana to feed her legion of demons.
Had to grab from the wiki
The developer Dave B. created her for his actual plays.
One has the characters enter her temple and get stuck fighting a minotaur demon in a nightmarish maze.
Minotaur written in red. That's important
Oh, no. It's yellow. And crossed out
mighty zephyr
Piss Minotaur
clear delta
||The Seer is impaled by a flying rotor blade, which pins him right into the temple seal.
"Oh... shit" - Cobalt
Everyone there tastes iron as though there were blood in their mouths.
There is a sound of something heavy scraping across metal.
The Minotaur, deep below them, roars.||
||He wanders, picking his way between Flesh Trees, listening to their screams.
No one to date has understood the glossalia screamed by the Trees made of Flesh, but their groves are rare and modern encounters limited. And none of the mages encountering them to date have been Sphinxes.
Samael reads the meaning out of their howls: Prayers to Cxaxa Querephas. Hymns to her Glory and Supplications for her Mercy.
"Whatabitch" - Samael||
One of the players
||Dave2: You're entering the demesne of a creature formed of torture and fear. Don't tear your character sheet up now, man, Dave has four hours left to make you regret it||
mighty zephyr
Man I wanna play World of Darkness v_v
clear delta
The most amazing moment.
"Surrender! You don't have to die!" - Cobalt
The Myrmidon pulls the pin from a grenade.
Cobalt casts Transmute Gold on the Grenade, which transforms instantly into a squeaky rubber penguin.
Magog punches the Seer out.
(GM) Cheap, but not as cheap as your mother.
Sadly, Grenade-to-Penguin was the best roll of the night, with ten successes. That was one Perfect Rubber Penguin, man. The Platonic Ideal of a Penguin
mighty zephyr
forever gm
100%
patent talon
The soul cage rules so hard
I love the Broken Diamond too
Both of them are my platonic ideal for a mage game
grave gulch
also, what happend when you kill a ghoul's master?
do they stay ghouled unitl they find another source of vitae/go clean?
mighty zephyr
also, what happend when you kill a ghoul's master?
The actual blood bond will break but the addiction to Vitae is different and borderline permanant.
So it'd be the latter
They usually only stay ghouled for a month.
grave gulch
oh...so they are no longer a "slave" but the addiction remains
clear delta
The legacy pedagogue merit sounds dangerous. You gain experience from students using your daimonomika, but now those books have connected sympathy to you.
Welp. Drawbacks are meant to be drawbacks
clear delta
Sariras can be weird. How about a sarira that, instead of a corpse, is an item? Like a grimoire.
Or perhaps a program
queen heron
The mastigos path is one of flaws, endurance, and sorta conflict?
all at once, its about Self mastery through transgression and conflict
Mastigos see what makes up the "you", every thought and passion, every relationship and tie to the world
so they are often obsessed with tearing pieces away to see what remains
why don't you use overwhelming violence to solve problems?
Is it because you don't like hurting people, or is it because you're scared of the consequences?
Mastigos (ideally) dont do things 'just because' or 'because you have to'
they do things they want to do
you are beyond your thoughts, so any amount of pain can be overcome - Pandemonium's demons hurt, but thats because changing yourself always does, and its never meaningless
clear delta
all at once, its about Self mastery through transgression and conflict
Yeah that. It's funny how I got so immersed in the path's stuff and can't get what it's about across
clear delta
So. Taking this from a game.
Jellyfish on the staircase: it's said every enigma spawns a staircase in the astral, going endlessly into nothing. Fluids drip down, coalescing into a jellyfish creature. A strange mage claimed they gave her access to parts of the mind that could touch something beyond the full understanding of mortals, but enraptured herself.
Influences related to delirium, cognition, puzzles and whatever their enigma is about. Need to check numina
patent talon
Honestly Real
clear delta
Influences related to delirium, cognition, puzzles and whatever their enigma is ...
What's a good average rank for them?
clear delta
Hmm. I'll try a rank 2 draft.
Power: 3 Finesse: 5 Resistance: 6
Influence: mystery 2, curiosity 1?
Numima: awe or emotional aura, implant mission, dement, seek?
Of course, picked resistence as the highest for an enigma goetia. Finesse second
Hmm, could take one point from finesse to power
queen heron
rank 2s and 3s are alright
clear delta
Oh, doing a rank 4 or 5 would take a while, with all the options
Yup. 2 and 3 seem fine.
Oooh. Firgot ban and bane
lament river
There is some genuinely cool stuff in the Wrath and Glory Aldari expansion. It makes running a purely Aldari campaign just as exciting as the Imperium.
velvet sparrow
Uh
velvet sparrow
There is some genuinely cool stuff in the Wrath and Glory Aldari expansion. It m...
I think you might have clicked the wrong forum
lol
lament river
I think you might have clicked the wrong forum
Ahaha, so I did. Sorry.
velvet sparrow
It's okay <3
clear delta
Oooh. Firgot ban and bane
Ugh. Still thinking. Can't affect apathetic humans, maybe? Can't speak too clearly?
grave gulch
ok
how strong should the gangrel I'm using as the hunter's target be?
i hear that the combat in wod games is usually deadly (and not the main focus)
but how deadly are we talking about? .w. they'll have to confront it eventually
velvet sparrow
Imo, deadly enough to kill them all if they run into them in a straight fight
grave gulch
right right
i was thinking something similar, since part of the point is also being like "I'm a mere mortal fighting monsters"
@mighty zephyr i would also like ur take on this
heady kestrel
hey so, all vampire the requium fans in chat
What is your Catharian law Theory, like wtf is it? how does it work?
mighty zephyr
<@132347231444533259> i would also like ur take on this <:vicksyBork:9965665043...
I agree that it should be an extreme threat
grave gulch
neat neat
mighty zephyr
You should also not pull punches
If they are trying to kill it it should he trying to kill them
grave gulch
they gotta be clever about it or be humbled then
queen heron
i hear that the combat in wod games is usually deadly (and not the main focus)
the vibe it goes for is "Shanked in an alleyway"
except maybe when Soak math in WoD got wonky
mighty zephyr
Combat is not actually that deadly depending
If you are just normal peolle fighting each other its usually just "who hits first"
Because of how down and out works
Except this is owod right
Uhhg
I have no idea then
grave gulch
person fighting person should be basically that honestly
velvet sparrow
It's H5, so I got no clue
mighty zephyr
My clue is that having a dog makes you very powerful
My hunter has a big pibbie named Bubba
grave gulch
cute
scary to fight anything that can control animals tho
can nosferatu control other animals besides rats?
clear delta
Give the dog a tinfoil hat
mighty zephyr
can nosferatu control other animals besides rats?
Any animal
mighty zephyr
but there's a perk that lets your animal buddy resist stuff <:vicksyAww:11918198...
Which I had!
Bubba was pure
grave gulch
loyal pupper!
mighty zephyr
Alfa ran this one-shot
We had to save the Yule Goat from vampires who wanted to burn it down
clear delta
grave gulch
little light
i was thinking something similar, since part of the point is also being like "I'...
If your ribs arent breaking after a backhand are you really fighting vampires
grave gulch
that makes me think that a physical confrontation with a gangrel would be even deadlier
since they have animal transformations
clear delta
Oh? Hunter the vigil got a new book, with new compacts and conspiracies. White hare society is about going to otherworlds.
And Enigmatics do weird supernatural art. Oh? The have and endowment called The Red Wax Mask
grave gulch
how recently was that?
grave gulch
i know i know
clear delta
Oh, I thought I hadn't specified, oop
grave gulch
with new book do u mean like a brand new edition or an expansion?
clear delta
Expansion
grave gulch
gib full name
clear delta
Tending the flame
grave gulch
fank
also
just saw deviant: the renegades
i remember folks talking about it here earlier
not earlier actually, a while back
mighty zephyr
Nicholas Czar was my cyborg who the GM kept getting surprised at how able he was to beat everything she threw at me into the dirt
wowie
mighty zephyr
Two random goons in a shonen protag intro (unintentional)
An entire convoy of armed guards
Mr. X
A vampire with a claymore
The entire rest of the players (at once)
mighty zephyr
Mr. X was the Devoted for Nick
The guy working for the Conspiracy that was hunting him down
clear delta
Mr x named after the resident evil guy?
grave gulch
ok, now i'm wanting to run a oneshot for this as well lmao
grave gulch
mighty zephyr
Deviants are the most "Power at a cost" of any splat
grave gulch
not made for wars of attrition then?
mighty zephyr
The "beat the entire party" line came when Nick "glitched" and designated the party as threats
I did the King Kong jaw snap on our Guy Who Was A T.Rex
mighty zephyr
The best thing about Cyborgs in Deviant is they are just absurdly tough
Nick constantly got flensed to near-death and just
pop
fine
grave gulch
so not nearly as frail as in other wod games?
mighty zephyr
I mean a lot of splats can survive a lot
Everyone jokes about Vampires being weak because they have exploitable weaknesses but if you tried to just like
Kill Them Straight Up, it'd be pretty difficult.
velvet sparrow
Vampires are near impossible to actually kill unless you specifically use one of the what, two or three things they're weak to?
It's destroy the heart, use magic, or use fire
mighty zephyr
Or just Be A Werewolf
velvet sparrow
Was kinda counting that under the use magic heading, what with their claws being magical and all
clear delta
Sin-eaters can just downgrade damage, shield themselves with plasm, and wash poisons from their bloodstream with plasm.
Prometheans are durable I hear? I think I saw that permakilling a mummy takes a lot, like seriously damage a city? And I know cultists can just bring them back with a risky ritual
velvet sparrow
Funnily enough in 5th WoD basically everything's weak to fire now
Can werewolves not soak aggravated in 5th?
grave gulch
werewolves can probably kill most things if they get to hit it enough
velvet sparrow
I know they could only soak in their warform in earlier editions, but fire's done Aggravated damage in all editions of WoD to my knowledge
mighty zephyr
Can werewolves not soak aggravated in 5th?
They can regenerate it
But outside of a few gifts not really
grave gulch
speaking of warforms
what kind of different animals a gangrel turn into? i think i asked this earlier but didn't get a clear answer
velvet sparrow
So, it depends on the Gangrel
mighty zephyr
Any scavenger or predator that they taste the blood of
velvet sparrow
Oh, did it change in 5e?
mighty zephyr
Think so
grave gulch
so it would be limited to an animal native to the UK in my case
mighty zephyr
This is also just the Requiem brain I'm thinking with
velvet sparrow
Hang on
Let me actually check the book
Hm, looks like it depends on their rating
midnight grotto
Prometheans are durable I hear? I think I saw that permakilling a mummy takes a ...
Yeah it's very hard to kill Mummies and even then they can still come back thanks to canoptic jars and body-hopping into cultists
velvet sparrow
Okay so since you're not playing V5 I'll use the v20 rules
midnight grotto
if you wanna put an Arisen DOWN down you have to sever their whole support network
mighty zephyr
I mean you cannot actually kill an Arisen
At all
They do be called the Deathless for a reason
velvet sparrow
So, Gangrel have two forms: They have a land form and a flying/swimming form. Those forms are not chosen by the Gangrel, and are pretty much like, predetermined when they get that power
spice abyss
They do be called the Deathless for a reason
You can get them out of your hair violently.
mighty zephyr
Yea
velvet sparrow
The forms are usually predatory animals, although there's Gangrel that can become bears
mighty zephyr
You can hope they don't come back in a year
spice abyss
And from your subjective viewpoint of time, it might even be dead!
mighty zephyr
Bears are predators?
velvet sparrow
No
spice abyss
By definition even.
velvet sparrow
Oh god no yeah
Sorry I was thinking Carnivore/Omnivore
Yeah no bears are predators
mighty zephyr
Yeah it counts predators not carnivores
midnight grotto
Full on hypercarnivores who don't eat any plants are rare
mighty zephyr
Which includes my favorite tidbit that all whales are predators
grave gulch
hi genome
mighty zephyr
Full on hyperherbivores that only eat plants are also rare
midnight grotto
hi, sorry I had to pop in and talk about carnivorae
velvet sparrow
So yes, you have a land form and either a flying or swimming form. Both predatory creatures, you choose which form you're shifting into
midnight grotto
something I think about is rich gangrels
spice abyss
something I think about is rich gangrels
An explanation for the suspiciously rich furries of the World of Darkness.
midnight grotto
and how if your sire is a Prince or some high-ranking Invictus or something they'll probably take you on a hunting trip to Alaska or somewhere to get that primo grizzly blood for Protean fodder
gangrel are very good at being murderhobos but they can get even scarier when they go the other direction
mighty zephyr
I did an Invictus gangrel
Was a fun character
Though I went Animalism and Vigor
Turns out dogs can kill people really easy
grave gulch
yeah
das why they use em for attacking
btw, the old vampire the masquerade pc game has like a uhh
skinny werewolf form
that's hilarious
heady kestrel
hey anyone got advice for the ummm, Interstices in mage
queen heron
it fucks
seconding this, it fucks
character creation requires more buy-in than most, because of how funky scars and variations are
and you need ro be a little deft if theres a party, prople can really specialize
but it nails the angry vengeance 100%
queen heron
hey anyone got advice for the ummm, **Interstices** in mage
wym?
weird places in general? the sos paragraphs? Emmanation realms?
clear delta
Full on hypercarnivores who don't eat any plants are rare
Was surprised that my dogs loved fruit. Think my parents also gave them rice with the meat.
Also surprised my cat loves cheese. Even though too much milk is bad for cat stomach
heady kestrel
wym?
weird places in general? the sos paragraphs? Emmanation realms?
Leme get the one bit on them from mage 2e, they are brought up as a thing that exists and made me do a double take
Interstices: It’s easy to miss the places between places, but some alleys stretch a little too far. Tent cities,
apartment complexes, and sewers grow beyond the dimensions people build for them. People get lost and
acclimatized, just as in any other wilderness. What creates subway stations nobody else can see? What do
the “mole people” want?
I saw this and immediately went insane
I also want to know what the mole people want
clear delta
Well, tome of the pentacle does have a "hyperdimensional apartment complex."
queen heron
N&A has a woman whos obssessed with them too
heady kestrel
Enraptured
The context of this section is “weird other stuff unrelated to right and left handed mages you can use as a gm”
queen heron
well, more Lower Depths tinged places, but it does the same stuff
I don't think theres a specific cause to Interstices
its a catch all term for "space gets fucky around here"
clear delta
The context of this section is “weird other stuff unrelated to right and left ha...
? I was talking about the obsessed lady
heady kestrel
? I was talking about the obsessed lady
Oops sorry
clear delta
Well, tome of the pentacle does have a "hyperdimensional apartment complex."
There's a legacy for it
queen heron
what do the mole people want
N&As got a barebones write up for people who delve into these too
I guess its pretty common that theres more space than you'd expect
heady kestrel
I assume the “mole people” are metaphorical and the shit they are on is way closer to Minotaur
queen heron
I think there might be literal people living in the in-between spaces
or maybe stories of goblins from the settings biggest Interstitial place
heady kestrel
Yeah I just saw that as distinct from the “mole people” who fractured reality in the first place
sacred viper
Mole people might also be literal,we cant dismiss literal cryptids
queen heron
all of the above probably tbh
hard to sort out the stories and the myths and the fractured lore without shoving your wizard eyes there directly
or tracking down an actual expert
sacred viper
Mole:The Holeing a CoFD splat about the darkness underground
queen heron
(after their last attempt, idk if I trust Onyx Path's writing about underground societies)
heady kestrel
This is in the book right next to strangers
Who are a explicitly out of context, physical bodied threat to mages
Who are probably Aliens
Like actual literal aliens with flying saucers
heady kestrel
Oh you found the section!
heady kestrel
I feel like the Mole People have great potential as villans in a mysterium game
Where you treat their backrooms like a megadungeon
And they are just eldritch horroring around
clear delta
Who are probably Aliens
Tending the flame has introduced hunters focused on aliens
heady kestrel
Wild
queen heron
These other creatures might have some idea and even something to say about mages, but frankly, there’s every chance they’re wrong. If the answers were easy, the Awakened would already know them.```so true
this section is way more conversational than I'd expect
the immortal section going "how do you kill the bastards, anyway?"
queen heron
Mage needed slightly more just saying shit in its books tbh
I want Takes with a capital T
its one of the things I actually like about Sympathetic Names being explicitly what name was used for you when you were a baby
and how this is portrayed almost like a scar
heady kestrel
Random idea for how to stat out the Strangers
Use proximi as a base, but replace the curse with a “hunger” or something that needs to be satiated for them to keep going, usually its not a literal material hunger but it can better
So like the men in black can do some Mind, Time and Fate shit, but their “hunger” obligates them to constantly get into other peoples business because its for “conspiracy” or something
clear delta
and how this is portrayed almost like a scar
Mastigoi having an advantage in ripping it out. They stay winning
clear delta
What are the strangers?
clear delta
just go to the Big Ocean :)
Oh yeah, that
heady kestrel
Or at least what Mages interact with that are probably aliens
queen heron
its the Men In Black
theres a few other origins for them in other books, too
Intruders has them be explicitly abyssal, I think core or hunter has the "Black-Eyed Children" hatchlings
heady kestrel
It does mention “others”
heady kestrel
Intruders has them be explicitly abyssal, I think core or hunter has the "Black-...
Makes sense
queen heron
Mastigoi having an advantage in ripping it out. They stay winning
but also I mean how the spell for it
explictly not Lasting
clear delta
No?
A new name rushes in its place
Huh. Duration?
This is weird
Seemed like it worked on damage spells and corridor of time rules
Where damage is lasting
grave gulch
clear delta
And like corridors of time
grave gulch
that's wizard stuff?
queen heron
yar
clear delta
Something fills the hole
clear delta
I'd have it be Lasting
queen heron
Dave's confirmed a few times that Sympathetic names don't change naturally, but you can get them scrapped off
I guess its either way, and I've just seen it be non-lasting more in games
mb!
"from existence" is pretty severe, so I can see the lasting
oh you know whats odd
clear delta
Honestly. I'd have sympathetic names change naturally. Even if it takes effort. Because every non-mage person that doesn't identify with their birth name is branded with it.
queen heron
or at least catches people up - Sympathy isn't two way
queen heron
Honestly. I'd have sympathetic names change naturally. Even if it takes effort. ...
I can understand this, yeah
dev intent was that its part of The Lie
but it should've been made a little more clear
I just like more defined edge cases where average supernal casting reaches limits
gives easier things to hook quests off
find a Being who can erase your old name, or bathe in the Ocean of Fragments, or reforge your soul completely, or find a Name-Eater to take yours away
and it gives stronger reasons for mages to turn towards the Abyss
clear delta
Oh, yeah. Could be options for mortal occultists
heady kestrel
The abyss can def eat your sympathy name
queen heron
it can do the impossible
or at least the very hard
its like the Archmaster whos trying to create a 'peaceful' Shadow
and uses the Abyss, because that idea is outside of the Supernal
Axiomatically, the Shadow is built on predation
it can't be peaceful
heady kestrel
The fact that sympathetic names don’t change over time does have the funny thing of giving random mortals(like trans people and CIA agents) variable amounts of “natural” resistance to sympathetic magic
Divination wizards asking you to pay them a extra 200 dollars because the one you want them to divine is non-binary
queen heron
yeah the upside is that Sympathetic Names aren't super relevant
I think my favorite headcanon for "True Names" was a friends
"The word used for self-identification in High Speech"
elegant
its what you get when you refer to you in pure meaning
man now I want to play Wizard Bullshit games but I dont have the time rn
heady kestrel
"The word used for self-identification in High Speech"
I imagine silver ladder guys and seers would be into those
mighty zephyr
EAT YOUR NAME
grave gulch
Skully
clear delta
Supernal summoning is gacha rolling
queen heron
summer edition Cognitive Jellyfish
getting my dailies in (snorting tass from the cabals mystical broom closet)
clear delta
Was thinking of demon the descent but astral. Since, you know, the god machine is society and authority, literally the System. Then thought about going through the base of the temenos, the roots of humanity.
What if the final boss is a caveman going unga bunga on you?
queen heron
that exists
its the uhhh
Omphalos and Language barrier, and the Swathe
theres also the last neanderthal who sits near the fountain of sapience in the Astral, I think
clear delta
Yeah, I know the base of the astral.
The last neanderthal isn't an incarnation of human instincts, which is what I meant by caveman.
The first asshole boss
queen heron
I know a game where it was canon humanity built the Omphalos and seperated from all the other animals through hunting down our Pangean, Monkey
that went pretty hard
can't remember if it was a willing sacrifice or not
queen heron
right?!?
mighty zephyr
Why Monkey and not Ape
grave gulch
Ape good
grave gulch
oh yeah i forgot to ask this yesterday
do gangrel still do the war form thingy?
or they just go full animal?
clear delta
do gangrel still do the war form thingy?
V5 seems to have horrid form, but it has requirements?
velvet sparrow
do gangrel still do the war form thingy?
Nah that was always a Bloodlines thing
Horrid Form is a Tzimisce thing
clear delta
Yikes. Didn't realize the amalgam discipline system was so complex
mighty zephyr
You could make your own tbh
Potence/Fortitude + Protean
Also it's complex?
It's just "(x) + (y) = (z)"
clear delta
I thought the system was supposed to remove things like vicissitude. But it's there as a requirement
clear delta
So what is vicissitude in v5?
velvet sparrow
It's a combination of Protean and... Dominate, I think
velvet sparrow
Also it's complex?
I find it far more complex than how it was before, yeah
clear delta
Anyway. Twice, while trying to mess with some ideas from beast, I created demon the fallen. Granted, I've been looking at devil may cry lately.
"Okay, so. An astral breach happens, but you are a goetia who became different from other goetia, maybe fused with a human and now build your life while dealing with them. Wait that's just playable demons and the Earthbound."
"Okay so. You're a human warped by the rejection and imposed role, and now your astral form is warped by how much you embrace your rage at what you went through. Wait that's Torment."
grave gulch
tzimisce are really spooky and feel like great villains
clear delta
Yeah
velvet sparrow
Kinda depends
I'm sure there's some people who'd go "You mean I can be a handcrafted flesh machine created to kill? Sign me up!"
velvet sparrow
Oh it's not
grave gulch
funny that V5 and H5 sheets are very very similar
also i wish there were sheets for npcs i could use
will use the lil diary the store gave me for free after purchasing the stuff
(i'm a regular there)
clear delta
Nice!
So, wondering about digital grimoires. Could I do a digital palimpsest just by erading a grimoire and putting another in the same file location? Or do I have to edit the file, erase the spells, then put others? Or is it by disk location?
grave gulch
whenever tech and magic get mixed together it just becomes even more complicated oh god
clear delta
Digital grimoires already inherently cause weirdness
Weird magic effects. A mind forming
Palimpsest is when you erase the content of a manuscript and write something new. In grimoires, the spells gain unexpected effects
I imagine digital palimpsests should get pretty weird. But maybe transfering digital grimoires already causes accidental palimpsests from files being overwritten.
And a signal can suffer noise
clear delta
All that stuff signs of sorcery added for item crafting and grimoire making is so good. Really makes crafters and teachers shine
grave gulch
clear delta
<:vicksyNoted:1182789993656225863>
So you can write magic into grimoires. You can split it up, requiring it be assembled to use. You may set conditions like a puzzle to undo the split.
You can cast spells together with the process of inscription to protect it, like that hides the spells text, or makes people think the grimoire is something else
You can imbue spells into the grimoire so it may cast them. Like say, gain skill to be cast on the user, or some veiling effect. People may set a spell to erase your memory of what you cast, so you can't learn the spell, only cast it with the book. Or they may set protections and traps, making unknown grimoires dangerous
Many mages had their counsciousness, soul, or entire being sucked into a grimoire
You can scribe a sound grimoire for visually impaired mages. You can scribe it into living beings (bad for their health! Non-humans live shorter lives, humans suffer from chronic conditions), or spiritual beings. You can put into music, or a city's routes, requiring scavenger hunts for the spells.
You can scribe into the astral. Put it in your mind, or the collective soul of humanity, or in the planet's soul. The latter could be long quests, studying the rock formations, or constellations, etc within the Dreaming Earth
heady kestrel
Random idea for The Worst mage villan
Reaper Banisher
Possibly with some… insane motivation for it like “souls are alien parasites from the supernal using humanity” or something
Where they are just wrong
sacred viper
No no I think they might be right
queen heron
Possibly with some… insane motivation for it like “souls are alien parasites fro...
Genius the Transgression
this is from Glitch but
^ the Lie
sacred viper
Yeah
Where's that "a little cold,a little hungry you think it may just be life but to mages its all part of the Lie" book quote
queen heron
ah I don't have it on me but yeah
the one that goes
"When you woke up today, you were probably a bit hungry, maybe you had a headache, maybe you worried about bills, or that you weighed too much or too little.
But hey, that's just living, right?
Wrong. It's The Lie."
and then talks about how death, suffering and dreams going unfufilled are a personal slight against you, specifically, from the Exarchs
at least in the SLs worldview
clear delta
You can scribe into the astral. Put it in your mind, or the collective soul of h...
Oh, there's haunted grimoire and palimpsest, too
Anyway, I'm reading summoners. Guess back then, goetia wasn't a term for all astral beings, and morphean for astral liches
Sunmon morphean is so convuluted
To summon from another's mind. You need to go to the temenos or dreamtime and cast the spell while the target is near your physical body.
Or you can cast it at sympathetic range, but need mastery of mind, and still need to be in the temenos or dreamtime
clear delta
After a certain amount of dots, it gets hard to count. They should put some separation after give dots, or just use a number.
This damn thing is 11 dots
clear delta
Ring of solomon
grave gulch
ok so i brainstormed some more ideas for me one shot
the village has been haunted by a strange creature who's been responsible for the death of some (regular) hunters who went out to shoot some animals in the forest, in the first incident 4 people went out to hunt and only one of them came back with a fuzzy memory of the event (the gangrel ghouled his ass 
), the bodies of his fellow hunters were found a few days later with claw marks way too big for any animal in the region people been terrified of going into the woods ever since 
clear delta
Good
grave gulch
i need to think more about the investigation section of the Player's hunt, he's going to be acting weirdly so they'll want to check his house eventually, but i'm thinking of including different sightings of more than one weird animal for the region
i feel like that adds in to the weirdness of the situation and world of darkness is suppose to feel weird too i feel like
grave gulch
clear delta
Idea for hunter. Invesrigator/reporter with a connection to the astral, who decided to allow a goetia of mystery and confusion into their psyche for its help.
Maybe it accepts the host's job because mystery must be pursued?
grave gulch
being friends with a ghost sounds fun and very reasonable actually
clear delta
Ghosts are more human in mindset
The differences are that their minds are more static. And they have strong feelings about their death and attachments
1e had the underworld make their mindsets weirder but I dunno if that stayed
grave gulch
maybe the hunter is investigating something related to the ghosts death and that makes em friends
maybe friends isnt the right word but you get what i mean
queen heron
lovers
queen heron
1e had the underworld make their mindsets weirder but I dunno if that stayed
higher rank ones def seem a little odder
clear delta
heady kestrel
Why do you wanna bully the US treasury
sacred viper
Why wouldnt I
clear delta
Fight the spirit of USA
sacred viper
(This is from Demon the Descent page 343)
clear delta
Other books have that
sacred viper
Also using Spirits rules for Angels is really weird for how they are actually portraited in fiction huh
clear delta
<:vicksyBork:996566504311099533> being friends with a ghost sounds fun and very...
Oh, it's not a ghost. It's a being made of thought from the astral realms. They got called goetia for reasons
queen heron
Also using Spirits rules for Angels is *really* weird for how they are actually ...
ehhhh
depends on what you mean
the Numina and stuff, yeah
but tbh more things should use the Ephemeral rules
one of Deviants and Geists best design decisions is making factions run of the Ephermeral rules
I think if Demon ever got a 2e, the Web of Pain would've been a fantastic model for how the God-Machine works
God-Machine Angels, Supernals, True Fae, high level spirits - they should barely if ever roll dice
clear delta
Honestly, web of pain could be infrastructure
sacred viper
Oh yeah no def
sacred viper
depends on what you mean
There's some disconnect between how material and independent angels are portrayed compared to the actual rules. It geniunely feels like every Angel portrayed ignored they can go into Twillight and can seemingly be far more independent than the 1/hour bleeding of Essence whenever they are outside out of Infrastructure stuff
clear delta
Oh, I see. Like some angels from enemy action?
One seems to hang out fine as an angel investor in silicon valley
Or the one who talks to corpses before working on them
mighty zephyr
There's some disconnect between how *material* and *independent* angels are port...
Consider it more like a roomba
It toes around and then returns to its charging port
Cuz they can "gorge" on Essence at infrastructure
sacred viper
Can they?
The book seemed to imply only like Gauntlet/Shadow spirits can gorge
Ah fuck maybe the rules all work and Im just reading stuff wrong
mighty zephyr
Every ephemeral can gorge
clear delta
Oh. Thought goetia couldn'f
queen heron
I can also imagine the GM programs angels against being independent
mighty zephyr
Depends
queen heron
not something it would try to encourage though
(probably)
((unless it does))
keeping angels on a tight leash, watching for signs of divergence when they come back to infrastructure
theres some logic there
sacred viper
Deviant is possibly cooking holy shit,this is a good game I love this
midnight grotto
eheheh
clear delta
So much anger they can resist mind control
sacred viper
Half of the reasons I like arent even flavour its just using clean fonts instead of unreadable,pretty ones
clear delta
Trying to parse names in the books can be a pain, with the font used in titles
mighty zephyr
Deviant is possibly cooking holy shit,this is a good game I love this
Deviant whips ass
queen heron
I love Deviant because sometimes a rude cop is more of a threat to a character than a Rank 3 manifested spirit trying to kill them
velvet sparrow
Oh?
queen heron
he had the one flaw, murderous urge?
the threat wasn't really from that cop
but the consequences of what would happen if the player didn't keep his cool
whats the spirit do thats dangerous? 5-8 lethal?
who cares
grave gulch
oh yeah, the consequences of killing a cop makesit scary to deal with them
queen heron
Its just fun to have characters who can rip open factory doors no sweat
but actually need to have scenes to go get groceries because one of them has intensive dissociative episodes and one of them looks like a bloodbourne boss
so they send the third guy who probably wont do any murders this time
queen heron
imo though
I think Deviant might work best in small, maybe even solo groups
you need to put in more effort than most splats to have it cohere
sacred viper
I love Deviant because sometimes a rude cop is more of a threat to a character t...
Who cares for a bunch of health boxes that'll heal in six hours
But a dead body? That's just the trails those bastards need to get you
queen heron
it took me so much longer to understand than any of the others
grave gulch
i have the pdf i mean...i have a lack of self control
i still have to run my hunter game lol
clear delta
You get variations (powers) by entangling them with scars
mighty zephyr
My cyborg Nick was able to fling himself off a bridge onto a moving truck, climb onto the cab, do a cannonball kick to send two men hurtling out onto the freeway, cause a 10 car pileup, and get away with the truck for a corporate heist.
What he wasn't able to do was afford food
clear delta
Oh, so they're like strategists from glitch.
"Oh, you don't have a healthy sleep schedule"
"I-I can blow up the moon!"
"Would... that help?"
queen heron
very fatalist too
Deviants are broken people
who were broken by people
the Web of Pain is explicitly neverending
its a game about vitriol and spite
clear delta
Abuse is eternal
There'll always be those who treat the vulnerable like things.
And there'll be those who'll take down the former
patent talon
I really like the idea of the techbro Deviant, an Autourgic cyborg who maybe even paid money to get remade because "omg epic future" and is now is the equivalent of a human cybertruck
clear delta
Oh this is awesome
Imagine if he met that angel that keeps an eye on techbros, because neither her nor the god machine get that can't actually make godzlike AIs
grave gulch
grave gulch
join up with a werewolve to destroy the evil burger company who puts demons into their burgers who's owned by the same people who own the evil beer company!
btw werewolves in the hunter book have like
12 dies in brawl
that feels kind of
busted
mighty zephyr
That's kinda how werewolves do
A werewolf in Crinos form has +4 to all physical dicepools
in W5
So for 12 in brawl you'd only need 4 strength and 4 brawl base
sacred viper
Flow chart:
Are you fighting a Werewolf? -> Are you a Mummy? -> a)Yes -> You migh not lose!
b) No -> Rest in Peace.
velvet sparrow
laughs in Time Mage
mighty zephyr
Are you playing a Time Mage in a crossover game
->yes-> Voy is hunting you down for sport
clear delta
Mummies are busted no matter tge world, huh?
grave gulch
they become weaker after recovering their memories or somethingz right?
clear delta
Cofd mummies become weaker over time and from using some powers
Being at full power, just after waking up, locks their memories
Huh. I know they can replenish their power. I think they can rise back to 10 without losing memories?
Shit. Waitabit.
Now I'm unsure if it's just the recently woken up state, that coincidentally ends with the first drop of power
sacred viper
clear delta
"In fact, sleepers would be safer without mages!"
-Banisher gang
queen heron
they do be sleeping
clear delta
The mummy 1e's book whole thing with trying to hide lore from players was so silly
Do like a bit the jokes distributed.
If the roll fails, the Arisen becomes one of the despised Shuankhsen - so very sorry (as are, one presumes, the grieving families of everyone who was present for the ritual)
Losing skills and merits when getting a new body, however, bullshit
Oh, didn't know you could stay alive indefinitely at Sekhem 1 after rising from a Sothic turn
clear delta
<:vicksySip:996566522828968088> they become weaker after recovering their memor...
Ah, memory is related to your autonomy. Sekhem is affected by the will of The judges. So in this aspect, they're opposed. Following the call of your soul and memory may disobey the judges, leading to power loss.
Also, they wake up at full power but with memory lowered to 3. Their memory rerurns after they lose the first dot of Sekhem. I haven't found if draining Sekhem from relics until you're at full power again lowers memory.
clear delta
Mummy is a very interesting game where you're curses by being deathless. You have powers and cult, but you're a servant to cruel forces, and unbound from eras, alienated
mighty zephyr
Mummy is a Roguelike
clear delta
How?
rare swallow
spice abyss
Depends on when you wake up
clear delta
Meteor shower
mighty zephyr
You respawn and lose a lot on death except a few permanent upgrades
ALSO NORFOLK WIZARD GAAAAAME
midnight grotto
how do people not noticed that
The thing is you don't summon meteors out of nothing, you retroactively set them on a collision course however many thousands of years ago it's necessary for them to reach Earth when you want
My Mummy once tried to use one to take down a True Fae UFO but accidentally destroyed the Empire State Building
(it's okay we rebuilt it as a secret temple)
clear delta
Did a read of the owod mage spirit ways book. It sure is something
queen heron
tell me about their cool powers
true resurrection for a story, creating weeklong eclipses that drain the spirit, turning a group of people into battle ready horrors, instantly creating temples or structures (or warping them with a whim), turning into a 30 foot high pillar of inextinguishable fire, warp ghosts like how Idigam warp spirits...
mostly big, dramatic, and flashy at the highest tiers
grave gulch
scary
what's a common enemy for them?
cause i feel like hunters and vamps wouldn't be able to do shit to a mummy
dunno about an earlier generation vamp tho
queen heron
they get weaker as the campaign goes on, I think
sacred viper
Yeah its an interesting reverse power escalation
And they have splat specific enemies
Uuh I only remember them from crossover notes but sometimes the stuff you guard leaks magic and you have a feral demigod animal to take care off
queen heron
Lots of other immortals
sorcerers who use selkhem
maybe your horrible terrible imperialism-bosses
clear delta
The shuankhsen are I think the minions of ammut
They can kill you and annihilate your body
midnight grotto
The thing about mummies and other splats is that it's very easy to end up with elder vampires or whole hunter bloodlines with grudges about you specifically
And you might not even remember them until they roll up with a small army hollering "THIS IS FOR WHAT YOU DID IN CONSTANTINOPLE"
grave gulch
neat
queen heron
you’re also a tad non-linear
you might not have even done anything in Constantinople (yet)
clear delta
That's 2ed by the way
Mummies can create prophecies due to tgeir time weirdness
They bring back knowledge of, say, a company that will be successful
queen heron
Mummies can create prophecies due to tgeir time weirdness
Average Sekhem cultists after speaking with a mummy:
mighty zephyr
And you might not even remember them until they roll up with a small army holler...
And then they kill you and you wake up in Constantinople like "Oh well if it's gonna be like that, fuck those guys"
mighty zephyr
Nope
Well
yes
maybe
You don't know/care
Mummiese are Deathless and Timeless
unkempt locust
that feels kind of <:vicksyHmm:996566512431288390>
If you’re talking about H5 it’s an inferior knockoff of Vigil
Play chronicles instead
grave gulch
ok....
unkempt locust
You don’t know true fear until you meet 2 E forsaken war forms
If you don’t somehow deal like 9 aggravated damage in a round you don’t put the werewolf down
They just heal all of it
And they automatically splatter you against the wall with like 8 dice if they get a single success
Having just finished playing a Hunter game, I can stress that the most effective sort of horror is when you can do whatever you want to the monster and it doesn’t matter
We had a person do an extreme stupid too in that game, ended up attracting the attention of the fae
They survived… sort of. Compared to the rest of the party who got eaten by a bane mummy when the ritual to awaken another mummy to fight it went horribly wrong
In all honesty being consumed by a mummy was probably a mercy compared to serving the fae
grave gulch
i do very much like WoD so i'll stick to what i got
clear delta
Live your best dark life
little light
If you’re talking about H5 it’s an inferior knockoff of Vigil
I prefer Reckoning
clear delta
Fifth edition?
little light
Is reckoning H5?
clear delta
Yes