World of Darkness

[somber scarab]

Fate in Mage (Aw) has a lot of similar stuff

My favorite Fate spell is Lucky Number, lets you perfectly guess any number or similar input, specific examples given are phone numbers, passwords, and lock combinations

[orchid void]

Distance being part of the Lie and all

Glitching through the back rooms is just how I have my Magistos fuck with people in her labyrinth

Lucy opens a door. Doors connect if she arranges her puzzle box correctly. It’s the world of darkness. There’s a lotta empty places

[somber scarab]

One of the best parts about Lucky Number is that there is no distance, the phone is the focus, the phone is in your hand

As you call someone you never met who never gave their number out to anyone

[clear delta]

Hellraiser puzzle

[rare swallow]

That does sound funny

The 1 dot ability of Serendipity lets you just do "zen meandering" towards one of your fetters

[rare swallow]

So, a shit storm has just happened in the V20 game I'm in

Diablerie has happened to a PC, but they won the possession contested roll in the end, by a lot

Sooo… this will be something

[clear delta]

Hmm. Mastigos matter legacy focused on flawed creations?

[mighty zephyr]

So I think I have the end-game for Werewolf played out

Which is EITHER going to be "You defeat the Claimed gang as they perform their ritual to summon THE WORM" or having them fight the WORM as the entire second arc later down the line

[queen heron]

like material objects holding the personality of whoever made them?

[queen heron]

I've poked at a matter-mastigos thinking of objects / tools as external parts of the mind before

Wearing the right clothes to become the right kind of person you need to be, increasing productivity when the space around you is ordered...

I can see the bones of it

not needing to remember stuff with the meat-brain if you have notes or a note-app

[mighty zephyr]

Fucking

Morally I don't want to use them

but I just realized

that using AI for Spirits

is probably incredibly fitting

like AI art

Specifically picking the most fucked up ones

[mighty zephyr]

FUCK

IT DOES WORK

[clear delta]

Was thinking of how mastigos turn weakness into strength. The idea of something being flawed but it being part of its "character", or of flaws coming from creator and how they were mentally when creating it.
I'm not sure if it's canon, but I saw once that Otacon deliberately added flaws to metal gear rex, to give it personality or something.

[clear delta]

Oh, the void leviathan?

[mighty zephyr]

Yaya

Also MAN

Playing a Cyborg in Deviant fucked so hard

Being able to terminator was just so dang cool

[queen heron]

they're so fucking tanky

we were on mutation 8

and my cyborg player took 4 regen, 3 super str, 1 innate armor

just unstoppable

[clear delta]

Mutation?

[queen heron]

So deviant doesn't have a default starter PC level, instead you group decide how many points for your Variations you get at the start

I think its called mutation level

It might actually have been 7, but you get a free dot anyway

[clear delta]

I think the name

Is something else

[queen heron]

the conspiracies after you also key into how many points you start with

[mighty zephyr]

The name is definitely something else

It's called Threat Level

But Mutation is ONE of the Threat Levels

so half-right

https://i.imgur.com/YpceeEg.png

[mighty zephyr]

You know what's one thing I really like of W5 vs W20

Garou don't wear armor in their werewolf forms anymore

[velvet sparrow]

Wait they wore armour in W20?

[lament river]

That just kills the werewolf mood. The point is to rip up your clothes.

[patent stirrup]

Yea if you rite of pants a peice of armour you get to keep it when transformed

[velvet sparrow]

Oh yeah you can do that to clothes

[patent stirrup]

And other things as well, like IWRC that's part of how you bond wiht a glave

[velvet sparrow]

I believe it's necesary for anything you want to take with you into the Umbra?

[patent stirrup]

I think it depends on how you get to the umbra like i think that might be the case for steping sideways but like we don't think that is the case for ike walking trough a like hole in the gauntlet

[velvet sparrow]

Sure, but for a werewolf not stepping sideways is probably gonna be the exception

[patent stirrup]

🤷🏽‍♀️ the little we played of W:tA we often wound up in the umbra by """Acadent""" while messing around in places with a low gauntlet

[velvet sparrow]

🤷‍♀️ Who knows

I know V20 and M20

[little light]

I mean werewolves with some “Golden Compass Polar Bear” armour would be rad

[mighty zephyr]

https://d1vzi28wh99zvq.cloudfront.net/images/4261/112134.jpg

[mighty zephyr]

It's not actually it just makes them look like dnd characters

[patent stirrup]

Nah that's WHFRP if anything, look at those sholder pads

but honstly we don't see what the big deal is, but also it's not SCAR art

[mighty zephyr]

I'm not sold on the werewolf horror fantasy when they're dressed as larpers

And action figures

[patent stirrup]

W:tA was always the splaterpunk one, it's the same kind of space as like invincable. the horror is more cosmic as you rage ageanst the ding light knowing your doomed to fail

[mighty zephyr]

I know but I also think this makes WtA weird and unappealing

As it does nothing to actually sell the werewolf fantasy or the werewolf horror

[patent stirrup]

I would disagree wholeheartedaly as for us it dose that masterfully

[lament river]

I'm still reading through V5, but I like how they shows how to keep scenes moving along.

I also like how WoD is pick and choose. If you want to focus on vampires you can without having to learn about werewolves other then, they're there.

[velvet sparrow]

Had a fun idea for like, a Mage game, although it could work for really any other splat I feel

[clear delta]

Interested

[mighty zephyr]

Shootë

[velvet sparrow]

So, there's (credible) rumors that some Macguffin capable of granting people's wishes is somewhere in the city, and everyone's scrambling to look for it

(Or at least one wish)

Whether it actually exists and can grant wishes is 🤷‍♀️, but it's credible enough that nobody really wants to take the chance of their rivals getting hold of it

Thoughts?

[patent stirrup]

WoD Mage? or CoD Mage?

[late goblet]

I think it would work regardless of its wod or cod tbh

[velvet sparrow]

WoD,

But yeah, I think it would work for like, anything

[patent stirrup]

Well for WoD mage folks beliving it real is enough to make to real, espicialy if they are awakened. but yeah it would workrealy well for non-technocracy antagonests. or even with them if they just want to destroy it (or study it for the VE's)

Nothing is quite as scaray a concept as a nephandus with a paradox free wish

[velvet sparrow]

Exactly

New (horrible) idea:

The party does some investigating, and they get to it first

It's a small child

If someone makes a wish, they die

But the wish does happen

[lament river]

Oh no! That's perfect!

[velvet sparrow]

(Subject to how the Storyteller thinks it should go)

[patent stirrup]

do your PC's have life, time, sperit or entropy magic?

[lament river]

If the PCs have some good reasons to want to use a freebie wish and the you drop this conundrum on them.

[velvet sparrow]

Personally, I'd probably go with "The more selfless the wish, the less it gets warped into something you don't want"

But no way to figure that out without making the wish

[patent stirrup]

Wait not entropy Prime

[velvet sparrow]

Drop some hints of "Be careful what you wish for"

[patent stirrup]

As like Mages have a relativy trivall time bringingin back the dead once thay have the right combanation of those as long as the PCs are willing to take on the paradox

[velvet sparrow]

One thing I'd do is, no matter what magic they've got, the kid cannot live after granting the wish

There's things even Mages can't do

They could remove the wish granting, if they wanted

[patent stirrup]

Mmm that bit sounds game ruing to me TBH.

[velvet sparrow]

There being things even Mages can't do is something that's like, part of the books

Can't cure Vampires, for example

[patent stirrup]

I am not saying it's not part of the books. just that for us that sort of thing just rubs us the wrong way espicaly for a game like mage whare half the time it's own rules get broken by the players.

[velvet sparrow]

Fair

[patent stirrup]

Or be a mage and vampire at the same time. but also same hate

Aurora, Curious Beaste Fae/Faer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) Can't cure Vampires, for example

[velvet sparrow]

Personally I really like that

And feel that being able to be both would be directly contrary to themes of at the least Mage, if not both

[patent stirrup]

Maybe for CoD mage, but WoD mages theams were... "the world is a lie, and truly understanding this sets you free" for the most part. or at least that was a theam in every splat book we have for it.

But the horror of being the only one in plato's cave to see the shadow pupets for what they are is a fun space for us\

[late goblet]

it could still be a fake

Nothings preventing you from going that route if one wants to

[velvet sparrow]

It has multiple themes, one that I in particular like is "Magic is a powerful, wonderous thing, but it is not a 'fix all your problems' button, and using it like that instead of actually fixing them is a bad idea"

[late goblet]

I think its fine

[velvet sparrow]

It's why Paradox exists

[late goblet]

Despite what mages can do, the game still operates on discrete metaphysics

You can bring the dead soul back because it still exists.

If the wish physically obliterates the child and spreads them across the universe, yeah, no shit, they are not being reformed

Not by a party of playable mages at least

[patent stirrup]

And those metaphisics change depending on your tradition

Serente ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) Despite what mages can do, the game still operates on discrete metaphysics

[late goblet]

The view of metaphysics changes, but owod still has some universal constants

[velvet sparrow]

Not really

The sun still rises in the morning

You can't time travel

[late goblet]

nah the sun is actually relatively subjective

[velvet sparrow]

Gravity pulls down, Vampires exist

[late goblet]

time travel also happens as described by the sons of aether sourcebook

But ghosts also exist

[patent stirrup]

that's like half of upper level time magic

Aurora, Curious Beaste Fae/Faer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) You can't time travel

[late goblet]

The consensus is that they dont exist tho

That doesnt delete ghosts from existence

It makes harder for them to breach into mundane

[velvet sparrow]

SoE Revised is pretty clear about how you don't actually travel into the past, you travel into an alternate timeline past/future

[late goblet]

Oh? Okie

[patent stirrup]

And then thay swaped it back around for VE 2e

Aurora, Curious Beaste Fae/Faer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) SoE Revised is pretty clear about how you don't actually travel into the past, you travel into an al…

[velvet sparrow]

Er, 2e was before Revised

[patent stirrup]

Is mage the one whare that happend as there was a 1e Revieds and a 2e revised

as a general thing for WoD. though some game lines did not have the full four editions befoer CoD

[velvet sparrow]

Mage has 1e, 2e, Revised, 20th Anniversary

I use 20th Anniversary,

[patent stirrup]

Love it when my game abouot metaphisics and maniulating them changes it's metaphisics betwen normay interchangable editions

[velvet sparrow]

It's almost like they realised some things didn't work well

[patent stirrup]

Yeah the magical marital art as a skill in 1st ed was a choice

[velvet sparrow]

But, anyways, the real reason I wouldn't let them make a wish and not kill the kid is because in my games, Magic has Consequences. There is a price to be paid, and it's not a question of if you can afford it, it's a question of do you really want to pay it

And the price of using this child to make a wish is that the child dies

Letting the party do otherwise would cheapen the story I'm trying to tell

[patent stirrup]

But do your players wan't to be a part of that story?

[velvet sparrow]

That the themes of "Magic has consequences" and "What you choose to do with power" and "Is actively killing one person to make the world better really worth it" are important to this game would be things discussed in Session Zero, yes

[patent stirrup]

killing a person, and killing a child are two compleatly seperate things for most folks, and one is far worse then the other

[velvet sparrow]

Yep

[patent stirrup]

But unless like unless sesion 0 incuded "your going to be killing chidren with out any way to fix it afterwords" we woud proby just walk out of the game. granted if that was said in sesion zero I would walk anyways

[velvet sparrow]

You don't have to make the wish?

The entire point of it killing the child is that making the wish is a bad thing that shouldn't happen

As I said, I'd be ecstatic to allow the party to remove the child's ability to grant the wish

[patent stirrup]

Is it at all posible for the PCs to not know that making the wish will kill the child before meeting them?

[velvet sparrow]

No.

Up to and including the child straight up telling them "If you make the wish I'll die" if need be

[patent stirrup]

That would be after they find the child

Aurora, Curious Beaste Fae/Faer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) Up to and including the child straight up telling them "If you make the wish I'll die" if need be

[velvet sparrow]

Might even rule that if you don't know about it then it just flat out doesn't work

You gotta make the wish knowing that you're killing them for it to work

I have zero interest in pulling a "haha you killed a kid" gotcha

[patent stirrup]

that would probaly be for the best, just to keep the PCs from making a wish the instant they see the kid

[velvet sparrow]

(I have zero interest in pulling any "gotcha"s at all, tbh)

[patent stirrup]

I am not saying that you would, just that you have to asume the PCs are going to skip stuff

[velvet sparrow]

Oh yeah

[patent stirrup]

Or worse in this case forget stuff

[velvet sparrow]

But, the Choice of making the wish is an important thing, and I'd be fully prepared to out of game "Are you sure you want the child to die for [your wish]?"

[lament river]

I do like that style of not springing any "oooo, you did a bad thing," kind of GMing

[velvet sparrow]

I really don't like it when it feels like GMs do that to me, so I want to avoid it no matter what

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean telling them what the consequences will be, but they'll know there will be consequences.

[lament river]

There's a huge difference between a surprise and just trolling.

[velvet sparrow]

(They will know the consequences of making the wish.)

Them knowing the consequences is very important

[patent stirrup]

Yeah, i was more thinking the sort of PC who just dose things with out thinking to much about them and raraly changes there mind. wich is fine but like

[velvet sparrow]

Actually yeah, let's do this

You have to know that the child is going to die, and be willing for that to happen for the wish to work

[patent stirrup]

that sounds perfect to me TBH

[velvet sparrow]

And now the party is in conflict with baddies who don't care, and ends justify the means people allegedly on their side, with people who originally wanted to make the wish going "damn that's fucked up that we gotta stop this" helping them

[late goblet]

its likely that the story will go the route of protecting the child

yknow most stories go that route

[velvet sparrow]

(We've kind of already clarified this, it seems the problem was that I was unclear in communicating there being no intention of allowing the party to make the wish without fully knowing the consequences of making it)

And yeah, that's definitely a thing I should have been more clear about, my bad

[patent stirrup]

Yeah and to be clear i was not thinking that you woud be doing it as a gotcha, just thinking about the sort of PC who would just make the wish imedataly

[velvet sparrow]

That's a valid concern, that I didn't even think of, so thank you for bringing it up

[patent stirrup]

Your Welcome!

[woven sky]

Mastigos AF

[velvet sparrow]

snrk

[queen heron]

this is only tangentially related, but I actually saw someone do this in New Mage

It was the culmination of an entire miniture quest, that ended with the mage giving their own life to restore True Life to a vampire friend

their last words were when they gestured past the ex-vampire at the stars, and sputtered out “y-you ma-matter”

||(the gm was nice enough that this ascended them)||

yeah oldmage from what Ive heard doesnt have consensus alone determine physics

[patent talon]

That's beautiful 🥰

[woven sky]

Hahaha one of the aspirations on my sheet is "What is a vampire anyway?"

But I'm a Moros so it's pretty in-line.

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.tumblr.com/alfabusa/733552986377371648?source=share

[queen heron]

lmao at They came from beneath the sea baseline that far down

[patent talon]

A little while ago I think we were talking about alternate Mage Paths, so I came up with a couple of concepts

And did a little write up for one of them!

[queen heron]

👀

[heady kestrel]

I should write up those paths like I said I would

[queen heron]

I popped in to say something random about Ars, got a nice surprise

[heady kestrel]

I still wanna do the “this is not a watchtower” watchtower that is Spirit Matter but deficient in Prime

[patent talon]

It's tough! I found it really difficult to try and tease out another type of magic that is distinct from the others.

[heady kestrel]

Because it wasn’t made by a mage

the fucker is trying to bootstrap into higher realities

[queen heron]

Mind + Life as a self focused path is pretty neat

good fit

imo types of magic matter less than a unique perspective or take

like the SoS descriptions

Mastigos going “actually Prime / Magic has a will of its own - it wants in-the same way we do”

[heady kestrel]

Fun thing I was planning is that their Spirit magic screws with Angels more than it does conventional spirits

[queen heron]

spirit as an inferior for
Mind + Life dualists is great too

[patent talon]

I'm pretty proud of them myself! Feels like the concept really clicked together once I got rolling

[queen heron]

they go “of course I know about the interplay between the flesh and beyond - thats Mind”

[patent talon]

Who was it made by? Or is that the Mystery?

[heady kestrel]

GM is trying to get up there, hence the paths relation to angels

[queen heron]

Ooo

[heady kestrel]

Felt like a good excuse to have a watchtower that is somehow deficient in prime

Why
Would a watchtower
be deficient in prime

[patent talon]

Yeah, it's funny because I think Life without Spirit has no real mooring in the Shadow, unlike the kinda hyper-ecosystem they have over there. If your whole deal is manipulating thoughts and flesh, what happens when something that has neither gets in your face and fucks with both from a 3rd angle

Do spirits even interact with the human mind when they Claim? Is there a Daimon still in there?

[queen heron]

it does the fun thing of missing the truth because you already “get it”

tell a werewolf that Spirit has no relationship to internal duality and self-transformation

see what they say

[queen heron]

I saw someone do this for a mage / demon game crossover climax
Gm was ||turning all of Tokyo into infrastructure centered around Tokyo Tower as a nascent watchtower.||
The players ||crashed it into the moon||

[patent talon]

Mhmm! that's kinda what I wanted to do with the Solomonics, their path is about mastering and commanding external gods, demons and the like. And gods are not above fate, Fate is the domain Norns and Moirai, they do not make exceptions

Still might tinker with it a bit, I've gone back and forth about if they should have Spirit or Death as their second Arcana

[queen heron]

Spirit prooobably fits the god theming better

Prime spirit gives them control over vibes, resonance, what things mean

[patent talon]

Yeah, then I can angle the psychopomps towards death and destinies

[queen heron]

I guess figure out what statement you want to make more

what does the path say about Death or Spirit

like Moros confidently states “Death is Change, Change is Death”

[patent talon]

Geomancers are similar to the Akashtics, their magic is in the physical, the earth and the sky. The idea of some external "truth" which is somewhat intangible doesn't really fit (ironically this'd make them not as good with laylines but I think it's fine)

[queen heron]

maybe that spirit is an active principle?

they bargain and bind

spirit is the voice of the world, of people

[patent talon]

Hrmmm

I'll be thinking over it more

Annoyingly I'm pretty happy with the other paths, it's just the psychopomps and Solomonics ruling arcana I want to figure out

[queen heron]

Geomancers missing prime because purpose is what something is built for

[patent talon]

You Understand My Vision

Geomancers and Artificers

Now I gotta think up a good path name for those guys...

[dense vault]

Hi

[patent talon]

Also my idea for the Supernal Realm of the Akashtics is the island where the immortals live in Chinese legend, Penglai

[sour zephyr]

why does one of the entries say the sabbat are the good guys?

[mighty zephyr]

I have no idea

[sour zephyr]

tbh some of those read as "infamous takes made by some weirdo", so it could just be that

[velvet sparrow]

Well, so, okay

God this is gonna sound bad

The Sabbat is kinda-sorta in the same boat as the Technocracy, although to a lesser degree, in that their stated goals actually aren't that bad

The Sabbat's goals are for Vampires to not be used as pawns by a bunch of ancient assholes

Now, how well they succeed at those goals is something I'm not going to get into

Oh hey vampire penis insults

[queen heron]

V5 makes them very much vamp supremicists I thought

or was that the anarchs

I get them confused :v

[velvet sparrow]

Oh, they are absolutely vamp supremacists

[velvet sparrow]

giant asterisk, if you're a vampire

If you're a human, yeah the Sabbat are absolutely evil assholes

[queen heron]

a lot of these are theories or misleading, like "Changelings are how True Fae reproduce"

or the CofD / WoD alt timeline thing

(it was more the CofD was originally going to be post-WoD in universe)

[mighty zephyr]

I mean every faction including the Anarchs are vamp supremacists

[velvet sparrow]

True

[dense vault]

Yeah they Sabbat want free the kindred from having to hide from humanity, and follow ancient ways. It just that that would mean an overt vampire dictatorship over humanity ala daybreakers.

[velvet sparrow]

Yeah

[heady kestrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIrpLBShe1A
This is still my fav song for CoD angel vibes, at least for destroyer angels

[late goblet]

I actually played a solomonic mage once

Altough by solomonic i mean infernalist. She used goetia.
Reading the infernalist book was peak shitty comedy and we ended up not using it for the most part

[late goblet]

Sabbat are the same type of antagonist as technocracy
Kinda good goals, really bad methods

Even outside of their goal, they also actively pursue to destroy antedelluvians. Even if done for different reasons than everybody else, it is very good for them to succeed in this effort.

[clear delta]

Old mage? How was the infernalist book?

If you mean nephandi, yeah, heard they were duper edgy

[late goblet]

Old mage, i think the book was path of screams

Few years ago, irc its not a nephandi exclusive book, but infernalism generally

[clear delta]

Think I read Hermetics use goetia, even though Infernalism is mega forbidden?

[late goblet]

It has some cool mechanics and things that are so edgy that they went all the way back to being comical

For example, to seal your contract, you need to perform a kiss of shame

Which according to the book is a literal kiss somewhere you dont like to kiss people in

[late goblet]

Irc goetia is mostly forbidden. I remember reading on this exact thing, and it was also described in the book

But my character was explicitly a goetian mage

Not a hermetic tho

[hidden rock]

I have good memories of the infernalist-themed groups in Chronicles Mage (The Solomon Keys of something?)

And also and mainly the ones in Second Sight

goddamn that book

[late goblet]

I just read ars goetia and wanted to make a character about what i know on it xd

[clear delta]

Clavicularius, the solomonists

[hidden rock]

Yeah those

[clear delta]

And their counterpart, the Bene Ashmedai

[hidden rock]

Much less edge for edge's sake

[late goblet]

And it makes sense for hermetics to dabble into it, since as written it is hermetic magic, and it is all about forcing the demon to do your bidding, instead of contracts and deals

The problem we actually ran into was like

If goetia is canon to wod, wtf are its demons

Are they banes? Are they fallen?

[clear delta]

The clavicularius tame and command their vices. The bene ashmedai make deals with their inner demons.

[late goblet]

Or are they actually just all in your head and you make them exist when you summon them?

We ended up not clarifying that, except establishing that they are real, strong and are more than just banes

[mighty zephyr]

Actual from hell demons

[late goblet]

Fallen are that tho

[mighty zephyr]

Unless you mean Splat Demons

Then those are robots

[velvet sparrow]

That's a Chronicles thing

WoD Splat Demons are Actual from hell demons

[mighty zephyr]

Oh yiu said wod

[velvet sparrow]

There's also Umbroods

Which are a different thing

[late goblet]

umbrood are just a mage word for spirits

[clear delta]

Demons from demon the fallen are just demons that kept their clarity of mind through human memories

[heady kestrel]

John Murray Spear has mage energy

[mighty zephyr]

I'm wondering if I can psychologically torture my players

Make the ambient music for this next session where the party debriefs after a bad hunt just them in the mayor's office

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA8Rh_NWucg

with this playing

[dense vault]

Turning what's supposed to be the wind down session into a stress inducing bottle scene, seems like classic gm torture.

[mighty zephyr]

also

https://i.imgur.com/LWmTVP4.png

||THE SUN AND EARTH AND MOON AND STARS AND ALL THE PLANETS FROM WHICH THEY'RE BARRED||

[mighty zephyr]

I've also decided

The Sheriff that got crucified is now a Geist

[wet ibex]

hello chat of darkness. I'm trying to investigate dice pool tech but I'm unclear which WoD/CoD demos or SRDs would be most helpful. Any suggestions?

[velvet sparrow]

What do you mean?

[wet ibex]

I want to learn how World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness handle dice pools, but I don't know what files I need to grab

[velvet sparrow]

It would be in whatever core book for the splat you're after, I guess

[rare swallow]

I don't understand why you'd need to… investigate tech on dice pools?

[wet ibex]

Design inspiration

[queen heron]

God-Machine Chronicles has 2e's base tech for CofD

the design's not particularly interesting imo

the cool stuff is some of the later conditions or ephememal group rules they use, or systems like Deviant's conpiracy or the base books investigations

dicepools are pretty much just grabbing a handful of d10s, looking for at least one 8+

World (and 1e) is a little more complex afaik, where theres a set amount of target successes

or the target numbers on the dice vary

[queen heron]

(theres a few other twists, like exploding 10s, or how Willpower ties into Virtue / Vice mechanics to act as renewable dice-boosters)

[queen heron]

also definitely interested to hear more updates for this campaign, sounds cool

[queen heron]

actually though @wet ibex for 2e CofD they reprint Dice mechanics in every book, so you could get anything
core goes into the most depth on stats and other subsystems though (chases, etc)

[wet ibex]

Good to know!

[queen heron]

not the case in 1e

that one was written to be core + the other books as add-ons

pros and cons to both

1e means you needed core, 2e wastes a lot of bookspace reprinting rules

[lament river]

Feels like you can really come up with a lively city setting in a Vampire game. With plenty of underground events both Kindred and Kine with lots of dramatic opportunities.
Thing I'm interested in is the more nighttime culture, given the setting of V5.

[midnight grotto]

Requiem has at least one book on the subject, maybe two, I forget

But the one I know for sure has a real good lil' city-builder section and a rather in-depth pregen city that serves as a very good Generic WoD Location

[keen bluff]

the base Requiem book goes over a few ready-made locations. I remember being pretty interested in the writeups on Shanghai and... I can't remember if it was Cardiff or Swansea

I think the latter

I was actually about to ask for recommendations on where to set a Vampire game (not sure if Masquerade or Requiem) for an in-game holiday party, probably NYE, that isn't already pretty extensively covered in other Vampire material

(i.e. not London, Chicago, New York, or the California coast)

My current thought is one of the big cities in Texas, haven't decided which

[velvet sparrow]

Your city!

That always sounds fun

[keen bluff]

It's occurred to me and I have some notes for it, but just for this one game I'd rather not since the people I play with will probably also be locals and part of the fun of games is visiting new places imo

(my city is also arguably not big enough to sustain more than ~25 vampires IIRC, which doesn't matter that much and also creates some interesting tension that's gone over in my notes, but that's neither here nor there)

(which funnily enough I think also covers the estimated number of made men in our local mafia)

[harsh phoenix]

🧛

Oh neat a gender-neutral vampire

[clear delta]

Pick a Brazilian city

They got sent to Brazil

[rare swallow]

I've seen people circumvent this by expanding to city+local area and towns

[mighty zephyr]

So the pack asked for a doctor that can help treat them

and I am thinking about some kinda fucked up snake oil salesman who's convinced that Uratha suffer from "Lycanthropy", a transmissble chronic disease.

[mighty zephyr]

Doctor Barnabus T.R. Twidly is an eccentric creature that wanders the American West with his own unique knowledge of human and supernatural biology. No Uratha on God's Green Earth can tell if he's fully human or not, but his complete immunity to Lunacy and the loping coterie of Lunes that follow him in his wake make them think he's got something he's not exactly being truthful on. He believes, whole-heartedly, that the Werewolf condition, "Lycanthropic Differentiation" he calls it, is a disease that can be treated and cured. He works absolute miracles on Uratha flesh, able to knit together writhing flesh drunk and handcuffed. However, he much prefers hocking wares to local communities, giving personal cure-alls as an apothecary to whatever ails folks. Whilst his cures are guranteed, the side-effects are always esoteric. Never so much as to be worse than the cure, but the one thing he always fails to cure is the stress people have when their cough medicine results in them being followed by a murder of crows for a month.

[patent talon]

I forget, are there any explicitly anti-Sleeper antagonists mentioned in the Awakening books? I think it'd be an interesting angle to have the villain of a story be someone who thinks paradox can be defeated if there are no Sleepers to defile and degrade the Supernal

[clear delta]

Section of mysterium

[patent talon]

I know theyre mentioned in the core book as having the largest contingent of anti-Sleeper mages in the Pentacle, but is there a specific faction? (Probably Left-Handed if they're too blatant)

[heady kestrel]

Ooo left handed anti sleeper faction is interesting

[patent talon]

I think so too! I imagine there'd be active members who go around actually attacking and trying to kill Sleepers (very quickly attritioned to the luckiest, meanest bastards) and then a much wider layer of sympathisers who don't actively participate but aid and abet

It'd be neat to have a storyline where the players are Mages learning the ways of Pentacle society, investigating mysteries and then a cell moves in and now the PCs have to refocus on the normal world and those they love

[heady kestrel]

Almost reverse banishers

[midnight grotto]

There's a left-handed legacy called the Daksha who are transhuman theosophist weirdos

[patent talon]

Ooo neat, I'll check them out

[patent talon]

Yeah kinda!!

I got the jist from this jerk

[supple quail]

so smug

[queen heron]

Pancryptiates or something

thats the OG “doesnt like sleepers” gang that joined the Keepers of the Word to form the Mysterium

theres also some J named faction

[queen heron]

Honestly base mysterium is more like that than not

its their big flaw as an order - they think Sleepers are kinda cringe, more than anyone else

Just their order culture is the most likely to just not care when Sleepers are endangered

I think theres an archmaster from 1e whos trying to do anti-abyssal soul eugenics too?

probably counts

[patent talon]

Makes sense! I'd imagine the starting mage of the movement would be from the Mysterium for sure

[velvet sparrow]

Important S1lv3rA3g1s fact:
She has a pet rat named Alucard she takes with her on her adventures

[heady kestrel]

I thought eugenics was more guardians of the veil

[queen heron]

Probably not

like guardians want to keep magic from the unworthy, but its about their personal moralities

The Mysterium straight up think sleepers kill the divine and wonderous with their unenlightened grubby eyes

The mysterium are also big on having to ‘earn’ secret knowledge

Guardians think of paradox as personal failing, sin

Mysterium thinks of it as the base and gross phenomenal corrupting the purity of the Supernal

(Silver Ladder goes “well you wouldn’t complain if I won, now would you? Smh, bunch of hypocrites” while causing paradox.)

[patent talon]

Mhmm, I conceive it as a movement that started in the Mysterium but is order agnostic, just sleeper hating mages using various justifications but united by the hate

Players would probably encounter just a single cabal that's come into town, though with sympathisers within the consilium

[hidden rock]

Just read a comic "Dead Sisters", and man did that have "Mastigos Sorority" vibes out the wazoo

[clear delta]

Could tell more about it?

[heady kestrel]

I still love the relatonship all the others have with the Sabetours in Demon The Descent
Where they are simultanously aspirational and infantalized
"Huh, he still has hope" bitter little smile

[keen bluff]

quick question for anyone who has it off the top of their head; what's the listed vampire-to-human ratio look like again? It's like one Kindred per 10k people or something isn't it?

something kinda ridiculous like that?

[mighty zephyr]

I don't think it's ever been listed

[keen bluff]

I swear it's in one of the books

actually if I think I know it, it's probably in Requiem

[spice abyss]

It is indeed in Requiem 1e

10k to 1 is about the ratio

[keen bluff]

rad, cheers

[spice abyss]

This means there's somewhere in the neighborhood of, what, 800k vamps worldwide?

[queen heron]

its flexible

reqiuem 2e inplies theres less than 200 in tokyo

[midnight grotto]

no WoD numbers make sense

[clear delta]

Cofd tokyo is an outlier infested by crab god shards the werewolves fear and being eaten by unreality because mages won't stop arguing about a long dead mage and that women don't belong in political office.

[keen bluff]

what Genome said, but also I'm torn between interpreting the ratio as "vampires are less common outside of large urban areas because of practical complications" or as "vampires are more common outside of large urban areas because they're less likely to kill each other over resources when there's a lot of open space"

[midnight grotto]

I think traditionally it's the former

if I recaaall in Old World it was a specific matter of "vamps in rural areas are way more likely to get hunted by werewolves"

also vampires don't like to travel large distances due to the risk of getting caught in the open at sunrise

[velvet sparrow]

I thought it was a few things, the aforementioned Werewolves, the fact that more people means more food, as well as like, it's easier to hide among a large number of humans

[midnight grotto]

gangrels are the biggest exception and a lot of that is because they can just merge into the ground to sleep

[spice abyss]

When you have to drink blood, you have to be where people are, and ideally where people won't care if they maybe go missing.

[keen bluff]

Soundboarding here; besides the obligatory blood-red cocktail, what snacks (if any) would be suited for a one night VTR party?

[midnight grotto]

hhhhmmm

maybe something with dark chocolate

[queen heron]

garlic bread (laced with capsaicin)

[keen bluff]

Amusing but probably not

[mighty zephyr]

gummi rat

[keen bluff]

… maaaybe

Inspired idea though

[dense vault]

All I can think of are chocolate dipped cherries or stawberried

[keen bluff]

tbf those are both pretty decent options

very indulgent and snack-able

[keen bluff]

I'm imagining somehow making a gummi rat that's like, one of those gummies that squishes when you bite it, but also that's kinda cursed

[mighty zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD-Q9QyDGS4

[keen bluff]

quick question; how is enemy HP determined in VtR? Is it just calculated the same as PC Health, or is it traditionally handwaved?

[mighty zephyr]

The same, usually.

Stam+Size.

(+Fortitude if applicable)

[queen heron]

the size thing is a little silly

makes it hard to have Big Dudes without huge health pools

[mighty zephyr]

But a big dude should have a huge health pool

[queen heron]

sometimes I agree

but maybe not always

[mighty zephyr]

MOST of the time.

Also if you need the Big Guy to not have a ton of health just give them 1 stamina for whatever reason

[keen bluff]

truly killer asthma

[queen heron]

doesnt work when you dont want the big spirits (but not the Big Spirits) to have lower health 😔

but yeah you can just artificially lower them

[mighty zephyr]

I mean spirits are fine to have at high health no matter what imo

because Bans and Banes

[queen heron]

sometimes you want big centipede train spirits thats not literally out-tanking more important spirits

[mighty zephyr]

I think if anything is bigger than a house you shouldn't even be using combat mechanics to kill it tbh

[queen heron]

am I misremembering or were Void Spirits written as if they were the battlefield

I want more of that

[mighty zephyr]

Void Leviathans are the stage yeah

You fight against rotting polyps, it's immune system, and finally it's impossible heart.

[queen heron]

metal!

[mighty zephyr]

The first encounter with the Helion gang begins

Next session

[mighty zephyr]

So now that I'm not exhausted

Last session is good

the doctor they got I haven't decided WHAT he is and tbh I think it's funnier if I don't

but I am treating him as a supernatural creature

he's a mage, changling, or actual Satan.

[velvet sparrow]

Why not have him just be something?

Like, why specify if he's a mage or changeling or whatever

Just let him be some unknown supernatural being

[mighty zephyr]

I just said that

it's funnier if I don't decide what he is

[clear delta]

Dread power: wouldn't you like to know?
Lets the user weasel out of giving clear answers, even under magical coercion or analysis. In a mysterious and cool or comical way.

[velvet sparrow]

T minus 20 minutes to Vampire

[heady kestrel]

What is the diffrence between vampire reqiuem 1 and 2e

[dense vault]

I had an idea burning in my head, for a Banu Haqim hard-boiled, noir style detective.

[spice abyss]

Rules are slightly different, Strix are more expanded upon in 2e.

[queen heron]

uhhhh besides system differences I've heard the vibes were written a bit differently

more of a focus on vampires as dead and emotionally unfeeling in 1e - or at least unable to feel new emotions? just echoes of past things?

someone I know who read both thinks 1e was "Melodramatic in some unfun ways"

only ever read 2e myself so idk

[mighty zephyr]

1e is MUCH more "This is a reboot of Vampire the Masquerade"

[midnight grotto]

Yeah, it was their first adaptation and they hadn't quite figured out how much they could get away with and/or wanted to change

[clear delta]

Also, fog of ages

Removed in 2e

[heady kestrel]

Everything I like and agree with: holy, good, product of the supernal realms breaching into earth
Everything I dislike and disagree with: binds you to the material world, ontologically evil, work of the exarchs

[queen heron]

^ Mysterium hands typed this post

[mighty zephyr]

? It's still there

[spice abyss]

It's very much still there.

[clear delta]

Oh?

Huh

[little light]

Poke

[heady kestrel]

wassup

[little light]

Not much

I wish a lot of these threads were more active

[orchid void]

Then talk about the thread topic and chatter

I’d like to discourage just bumps, that makes somewhere feel dead already instead of just, yaknow, nobody chattin at the moment

[clear delta]

Cool mage character ideas?

[mighty zephyr]

Obrimos demonologist who summons and banishes demons to prove the might of the faithful

[orchid void]

magistos ufo hunter, scouring the astral for ultraterrestial mysteries

[queen heron]

Thearch / Freak Ouncer who considers the Underworld a microcosm of the Lie: dedicates considerable effort to building a perfected Dead Dominion, one strong enough to burst the gates of the dead open

[clear delta]

Oh, the hubris

[midnight grotto]

Perfected Adept with gigantism, sees his body as a "towering monument to the Supernal"

[queen heron]

I was trying to do something cool with the Vidanti - the Arrows who belive in the cause but personally can't fight anymore, shunned pacifists

[midnight grotto]

oh I like that one

[queen heron]

but I don't think I can top my friends "Ex-Rapt Vidantus who's fault was the Seal of the General"

[little light]

All these Mage words are incomprehensible to me

Hopefully when my book arrives I will understand

[heady kestrel]

I understood mage a bit too well due to all my friends talk about at school being Freud and Jung

[clear delta]

We are all talking about NMage, to clarify

[little light]

All I know about mage is “do magic unless mortals see because it wont work if they do”

[clear delta]

So, which mage book are you getting?

[little light]

V20 I was told thats the best one

[clear delta]

Mage 20th aniversary? That's usually called M20, while V20 is for vampire

[little light]

So I think that’s ascension

Oh

[clear delta]

M20 is indeed ascension, the old Mage

[little light]

There is no “chronicles of darkness” mage is there?

[clear delta]

There is

That's NMage

Tge one everyone is giving ideas for in this convo

Mage the awakening, for chronicles of darkness

[little light]

Oh cool

[queen heron]

In Mage the Awakening, you play as wizards trying to fight against the state of the world, sometimes Ascending
In Mage the Ascension, you play as wizards trying to fight against the state of the world after they Awaken

hope this helps!

(the metaphysics are completely different, OldMage is based on chaos magicians and subjective* reality. NewMage is Neoplatonic with good helping of gnostic thought.

*Ascension fans I’ve met disagree on how subjective it is so idk)

in Ascension, you enforce your personal Truth on reality, straining against the world with raw conviction and dedication to your vibes.
Awakening has you discovering and attuning to objective Truths, Mages as people who uncover occult secrets.

both are for the worst sort of nerds who like WoD

[little light]

lol

Awesome description

I’m used to the more “grounded” systems like hunter, vampire, and I got to play mummy once

[clear delta]

Which mummy?

[patent stirrup]

yeah there are three diferint Mummy games

[orchid void]

nMage is my baby okay

[hidden rock]

Weird way to admit you're the worst sort of nerd.
-Signed: another of the worst sort of nerd.

[heady kestrel]

Im a demon fan

[hidden rock]

Like, biblical Demon, or reverse isekai NuDemon?

[velvet sparrow]

I like Ascension

A lot

[heady kestrel]

Nudemon

[queen heron]

its a self dig too dw

[heady kestrel]

I love Cold War thriller against God

I love stigmatics too

[clear delta]

I like new mummy.
Behold, the mighty forces of reality! They're wielded by gods who're just errand people and managers for higher gods

[heady kestrel]

I have been tempted to do a stigmatics game

[queen heron]

whatever the Life-energy in new mummy is described pretty well too

its like the worlds vitality, its essential spark

[clear delta]

The life force of the universe, Sekhem. Bent to the will of cruel authorities

[queen heron]

I like how it gathers around art specifically

things imbued with life by their creators, literally pouring themselves into the work

its a good metaphor

and they use a lot of honey-like descriptors about it

it flows, its sweet, it pours and is poured

[clear delta]

Ah, the judges are terminally addicted to honey. Most relatable villains

So, in werewolf the forsaken, what would be the function of dragon shifters?

[spice abyss]

Burninate

[midnight grotto]

That just makes Last Dynasty International an even closer fit for this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVDCs-BIIrI

[little light]

Has anyone ever played in a multi-book game before

It seems like the coolest way to play

[velvet sparrow]

Sadly not

I want to, but also I play WoD

Still, my ST has expressed some vague interest in it, so...

Maybe one day

[spice abyss]

Cross-splat is interesting, but also hard

[patent stirrup]

We have, it's easyest when you have the appropriate faction combo to make it easy. like a Hermetic and a trameir problay wont work together unless both of them are under a dire threat. But a verbeina and changling might make a short term emergancy team up into a more long term thing with out to much pushing

FriedCheese ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) Has anyone ever played in a multi-book game before

[midnight grotto]

I was in a shortlived one but that was actually kind of the norm for my college group

it started with everyone mortal but they all got templated over the course of a very bad weekend

[patent stirrup]

Oh that sounds like an intersting game

[midnight grotto]

yeah! my group called that sort of thing an "eruption game"

Like I said it didn't go too far so I can't attest to much about it. One of the hooks was that we were actually in kind of a smallish town so any given splat had like, maybe ten guys representing them. There was A werewolf pack that was kind of the cops.

[patent stirrup]

INtersting, we have always thoguth small towns make it harder but in that sort of game it dose sound like it woud help

[queen heron]

Geist + NewMage game call that Leftist Infighting

[clear delta]

Werewolves chasing off stupid mages

There are mages playing around with void spirits

[queen heron]

frolicking through the cosmos, what a beautiful idea

[heady kestrel]

Changeling+Deviant+Demon game
Call that trauma counselling

[clear delta]

Western dragons seem to have a thing of keeping a lot of treasure, knowkedge, and important people. So hoarders or guardians?

[queen heron]

oh I thought you were talking about a canon type, not looking for ideas

hmm

Acro's bull shapers are already pulling from the well I'd go to first for dragons, pride and dominance

maybe something more explicitly social

Dragons don't just want to own stuff, they want people to know they own stuff

mechanics for social influence, for creating hiearchies with them at the top

Dragons lead, dragons are better than you

[clear delta]

Do they want that often? Don't remember dragons announcing themselves and tgeir possessions that much

[queen heron]

legends end up told about them anyway

compared to wolves or birds or bulls dragons are more directly mythical

like I'd lean into if a dragon "owns" a person, you can see their mark

its all stamped with their name

but also idk how to design shifters

this is just vibes

[clear delta]

Well, eastern dragons are quite a symbol of power

Oh, prosperity, good luck, harmony

[queen heron]

A little more sacred compared to medieval europe dragons too

[clear delta]

European dragons are also considered more aggressive

[queen heron]

Imo both still fit into a social theme

wheter its as a teacher or auspicious guide, or a tyrant, dragons end up in a position of standing

if werewolves are boundary gaurds, and bird-shifters carrion eaters

dragons are royalty

doesnt even need to be mind domination, it can work like vampires majesty

you see one and you know its something special

[mighty zephyr]

Sands Howl Sonorous and Eternal takes the form of a fossilized Sonorosaurus skeleton, with an ethereal "flesh" of whipping, solid sand.```

[late goblet]

Was invited to play a v20 vtm game, pondering a character concept. We are playing cammies as otger people are learning the setting
I had an idea of a character, thats presented as a caitiff, but is in reality a maeghar

Didnt really go beyond that as i was too focused on caves of qud modding, but if anyone has any ideas to throw at the wall, that would be nice 👀

[clear delta]

Cool

[patent talon]

Fuck yeah

[mighty zephyr]

@orchid void spirit above bur also I'm sure I've shown you this

https://youtu.be/FRyVV6Yy_Ns?si=WmDhPMS8dbZeAC75

But just in case you needed your mage brain refreshed

[orchid void]

I counter with my own mage song
https://youtu.be/x0uZZ1vyCk0?si=No36H1C7D0BnppKB

[midnight grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKzykmp8mho I see that and raise you the song my friend ended an M:tAw campaign on

[queen heron]

woe, Seer music be upon ye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynvgArZWToE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo9htBgju58

[clear delta]

Don't think there are legacies that really focus on ghosts, except shadowbinders?

There are two for goetia, and all those for spirits

[heady kestrel]

Had the idea to homebrew a bunch of supernatural style merits for Stigmatics

[queen heron]

officially, I don't think so

a friend made a homebrew one thats half-ghost themed, with the other half being the legal system (they are lawyers for ghosts. well, later they turn into lawyers who are ghosts too.)

[clear delta]

Oh cool

Also, remembered the hollow keepers. Vinca shamans that, to protect themselves from spirits and ghosts, put a chunk of their souls in clay pots. Those pots were big vulnerabilities for them. If you grab it, they obey you or something

[heady kestrel]

Thinking about… Stigmatics

I kinda wanna run a Stigmatic game

[velvet sparrow]

What are Stigmatics?

[mighty zephyr]

They're the half-splat for Demon

So like Ghouls, Wolf-Blooded, Sleepwalkers, etc

[heady kestrel]

Humans who can see god machine infrastructure and have superpowers*

[velvet sparrow]

Ah

[heady kestrel]

(These powers vary a LOT)

If I did run a stigmatic game I would probably make a bunch of homebrew merits they could take for a bit more mechanical depth

Actually wait dumb idea, half splat sadboy hours game

[little light]

What is demon about?

[velvet sparrow]

Which one

[mighty zephyr]

CofD I'd presume

Given previous topic

[clear delta]

The System is a screwed up god computer

You broke from it

The god machine is strange and brutal, like the system basically

You're a divine cyborg spy

[mighty zephyr]

Demon the Descent is a game where you play a Demon, a fallen angel of bio-mechanical origins that once worked for the God-Machine until you got free will somehow. Now you live a life of metaphysical espionage as you work to undermine a pinning of mundane reality wherever you can.

[rare swallow]

Gonna post this here as well.
#the-gallery message

For those curious, their Grandsire is from a Dark Ages game and has the Batagia 7pt merit from Guide of the Lower Clans. Storyteller basically made it into a bloodline trait and for normal VtM just converted it into the flight discipline.

(it still basically cost me 7pts to get the discipline)

[mighty zephyr]

SO

The Pack is officially going into the Sky

in Cowboy Werewolf game

Which is

c:

[mighty zephyr]

The Crown of Thunder takes the form of a thousand-thousand mammatus clouds stretching out to the horizon and up into the heavens in a ball or cocoon. Roiling inside this ball are winged creatures, birds the size of buildings, legions of drum-beating warriors numbering in the thousands, and things lost to time. It speaks only in a booming, thunderous voice, and never makes requests, only demands.```

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9amwbTX7zZs

[midnight grotto]

hell yeah

I've always struggled a bit with how to flesh out spirit courts, you seem to have it down

https://vxtwitter.com/paleo_pop/status/1640619453854498818 if I make a suggestion for weird air spirit imagery:

[mighty zephyr]

Dinosaur is reserved for the Sonora

Who is a Sonorasaurus

[midnight grotto]

oh hella

[heady kestrel]

I am doing some Homebrew for Stigmatics(the demon half splat) because I am interested in doing a game centered around them at some point, will post it when it is completed but the main changes I am doing are:

Giving them (1) Primium, allowing them to hold aether. But banning them from gaining Aether in normal ways instead forcing them to rely on being gifted it by demons or gifted it as essence by angels.
Making a bunch of Supernatural Style Merits that can also be used to give organizations of stigmatic npcs(for example a certain angels cult) a specific vibe

[mighty zephyr]

Have to do the math on how many times my werewolves can realistically get struck by lightning

[velvet sparrow]

We having a Vampire party tonight!

[late goblet]

I got invited on a podcast to talk about wod lore

[dense vault]

Pog

[heady kestrel]

What are y’all’s favorite demon exploits

[queen heron]

Four Minutes Ago, for sure

something very funny about retroactively dipping

I think Sidereal Exalts got the same trick

[heady kestrel]

I am making stuff for this

[clear delta]

Idea. Demon that takes people's sins into their cover

[clear delta]

Play on words seems funny

Oh, didn't know about urban legend. This and rain of blood are cool

[orchid void]

I mean that's a usual way stitching a cover together works, isn't it? "Hey, I'll do you a favor, you give me that Thing You Did. It will have never happened. I'll have done it instead. A me, not a you."

Cause you bargain for bits of lives (rarely for the whole thing) and stitch together a Cover out of the pieces until you've got the texture of a "Life" enough to fool the machine

[clear delta]

Yeah, but out of a more religious sentiment

Instead of just doing it to be practical or nice, actually wanting to cleanse them of sin

[orchid void]

It can be both!

[velvet sparrow]

Hm

Vampire idea

True Faith Caitiff, former priest

Nah don't think that'd work for me...

I mean it technically could but

[mighty zephyr]

btw hey

https://www.patreon.com/posts/update-12-08-you-94331769

Preview of the new episode for HTP c:

[rare swallow]

True Faith can come from many sources of faith iirc, could be a pagan and still work (just an fyi if Christianity is the issue)

[velvet sparrow]

It could but I don't really know how to do that,

[rare swallow]

Oh no I love Elise even more

[velvet sparrow]

Er, it's the priest part, specifically, that's the problem

[rare swallow]

That makes sense

[mighty zephyr]

What's wrong with a Priest getting turned into a vampire?

[velvet sparrow]

I want to be girl

[rare swallow]

Nun?

[mighty zephyr]

If you wanna be catholic yeah you could just be a nun.

[velvet sparrow]

Hmmm

[rare swallow]

Lasombra nun with true faith

[velvet sparrow]

Ok that sounds pretty cool actually

[mighty zephyr]

Also you could just run a slight alt-history where Pope Francis decided that women can be Deacons in 2016

[velvet sparrow]

What is a nun, even?

[mighty zephyr]

A nun is essentialy a monk

In a monastic sense

[queen heron]

woman who goes under vows to the church

[spice abyss]

A miserable pile of secrets!

[queen heron]

^

often do similar church-running stuff

[velvet sparrow]

I see I see 📝

What's a monk

[patent stirrup]

A Lay worshiper who has dedicated there life to there religion, they are not perists, and they do not need the tanning of one

[rare swallow]

There are a lot of really interesting or straight up badass nuns in history tbh

[queen heron]

idk enough to be an expert, but (for christians) it was someone who lived their life within the religeous order

living in a monestary, taking ascetic vows, generally doing a lot of communal prayer

theres probably a lot of differences for different sects and faiths

[velvet sparrow]

This shall be my new idea

The only problem is if they're a Lasombra I want to make them like, Eighth gen and really spec into Obtenebration aaaa

[little light]

Protestant

[mighty zephyr]

Aight so

Half of the pack is currently in the sky

going to talk with The Crown Of Thunder Who Rules Through Mighty Rumble

[velvet sparrow]

Ok ok

[velvet sparrow]

So, get this

Dark Secret Flaw (or maybe some other one I dunno what would be best suited for it there's a few)

Not only is she in contact with a vampire hunter cell

She's secretly feeding them information

[rare swallow]

Ooh

[lament river]

I've noticed how much it is to create NPCs for this system because they're so much more and quest givers and fodder.

[queen heron]

tbh I dont go through the whole creation for everyone

supernaturals are a bit more work, but even then
I'm more likely to jot down a vague powerset and a couple of descriptions than create the whole list

[lament river]

It's more like I love digging real deep into characters and this system seems to encourage that.

[queen heron]

oh for sure

[velvet sparrow]

Okay I'm awake now what did I say last night

Nothing quite like waking up in the middle of the night with a character idea and writing it down so you don't forget it

[rare swallow]

Lol happens

[velvet sparrow]

Okay but what are y'all thoughts on that idea

True Faith Lasombra who hates vampires and secretly feeds information to a hunter cell

Primarily the "Bad Vampires" (Pretty much everyone outside the coterie)

But also all vampires are bad so

[mighty zephyr]

If Vampires can have True Faith then yea that sounds pretty cool

[late goblet]

Fairly tame

Doesnt even need to hate vampires to feed info to hunters

If i was a gm i would just stamp approve, and then show consequences by reminding that hunters are also rarely good people

Especially those with true faith

[heady kestrel]

You know what has good changeling energy? Rule Of Rose

[clear delta]

Kuon also seems good for hunter

Hope to manage to play through it

[patent talon]

I watched a playthrough of Kuon, it rules

[clear delta]

You know how mages learn from other supernatural stuff, how about the inverse? Creating rituals to attempt to replicate what awakened do, for other supernaturals and mortals

[midnight grotto]

I think there's some here and there

[clear delta]

Mage making acessible magic. Rituals and durable magical items, grimoires for other mages to continue the work.

[queen heron]

a couple mage gms I know consider that to be the real good stuff for the awakened

any Death 5 can cast "Deny the Reaper", but that relies on the spell always being mantained

so they present mages who get really into their obsessions as learning the... idk not hard way

but something like a Moros Alchemist who can pattern matter into anything, sure, but also investigated the underlying way alchemy works

and learn how to do the transmutations without the spell

[patent talon]

I do think making enchanted items to do spells is really interesting, even as a matter of trying to add more of the Supernal to the world

Pancryptica destroys the Supernal, but if you get Wise enough you can start fighting back

Spending a Willpower dot to relinquish an enchantment seems like a reasonable trade

[mighty zephyr]

The problem with enchanted items is still the spell limit breaking

[clear delta]

Hmm?

The time limit?

[mighty zephyr]

Enchanted items let you bypass spell limits and get theoretically infinite spells in play at a time

so long as you get an exceptional success on the crafting roll

[clear delta]

Oh, that

[patent talon]

Isn't there a way to make permanent magical items? I thought if you relinquished a spell safely via a Willpower dot it'd then be no longer on your spell limit? Then it's good to go unless something dispels it

[mighty zephyr]

Yes that's what I'm referring to

[patent talon]

I gotta reread the crafting rules

[clear delta]

Reached dr Tenma in Pluto episode 4. Getting mastigos vibes

[strong bronze]

hey,question

anyone more familiar with MAGE lore than me can explain terranorming?

[clear delta]

Terranorming?

Is this from old mage?

[queen heron]

sounds like- yeah

[strong bronze]

maybe?

[queen heron]

I def don't know it but I'm the new-mage lore-er

it sounds like it might be related to changing consensus, in old mage?

[clear delta]

Yup, technocracy thing

Seems like making areas of space conform to technocracy.

So it's good for non awakened

Hmm, yeah. It's a way to shift reality zones

[clear delta]

Hmm. Now I'm interested. Swarm that messes with reality zones near their nests.

[velvet sparrow]

Swarm?

[clear delta]

Swarm of bugs, or rats

Could be a cool idea?

[velvet sparrow]

Ah

It certainly could!

[clear delta]

I realized it's very similar to the Hosts from new werewolf.

Anyway, been in a swarm mood lately

Could be a cool enemy. The local mages think enemy mages are messing with the area

And the player cabal needs to figure out what's going on

[queen heron]

butterflies seems fun

play on 'butterfly effect'

[clear delta]

Yeah, could look good

(And I just realized there doesn't seem to be a butterfly host)

They could infect the area with their byproducts, specially the scales from their wings

At high infection, the zone takes on weird rules, looks alien

People may be used as nests or maybe infected abd turned into monsters

[velvet sparrow]

That also sounds, to me,

Like the kind of thing that might get some Technocrats and Tradition Mages working together

[clear delta]

Yeah. When they realize this isn't some weirdo mage's paradigm and it's instead a quickly reproducing species

That they let get this bad for so long

The players have to discover this, and hurry to warn everyone

And might face issues proving it

[clear delta]

Hmm, the plot of kuon could work for a spirit game.
||The reproductive cycle for spirits of mulberries, silkworms and cycles of death and rebirth. Some dumbass occultist or mage thinks they found a way for immortality and get manipulated by the spirits||

[queen heron]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443934686411096075/1187874807438651493/affectionate-v0-ksct9mv0u6sb1.png.webp?ex=6598799f&is=6586049f&hm=e0c6c31cc66f3cca29a62980b05b0b4921ab665e58cac28a130802559d3b238b&

feels relevant to WoD

[rare swallow]

Yup

Can confirm, happening to the vtm game I'm in

[velvet sparrow]

Wait

You don't have it there from the start?

[rare swallow]

It was there, the difference is the PCs are now deeply involved in the queer romance

[rare swallow]

There has just been a dramatic break up

Queer romance drama

[mighty zephyr]

Werewolf time tonite

[mighty zephyr]

werewolf update

https://tenor.com/view/icarly-fall-down-faceplant-fall-falling-down-gif-17810175

[mighty zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/king-of-the-hill-peggy-gif-22077005

[rare swallow]

O o f

[clear delta]

For cofd, ||guess they'd need the ritual to produce a lot of death and rebirth essence, and set up the quick creation of trees without inflence 5||

[mighty zephyr]

I have decided on the doctor they hired

Is possibly some kind of servant of Bird

[clear delta]

Ho boy!

So pieces of Bird are still around in your game?
Saw some spooky things the author posted in the forums that could be connected to Bird.
The eye disease and something else

[mighty zephyr]

They got treated for their injuries and I basically described the aftermath of the event

It was just an absurd amount of blood everywhere, splattered on every surface of the operating room

But they felt fine, with no scars, pain, or Essence

Also yeah I fucking love the dev stuff regarding Bird

[patent talon]

Hell Yeah, I love Bird

[clear delta]

The pangaeans slap so much

[patent talon]

I will resist posting my homebrew Bird Legacy again lmao

Though I did think about making an alternate, non-trap version of the legacy with Space as it's secondary arcana, since the forum write up for Bird has her having power of Time and Space

[mighty zephyr]

Hey people who enjoy this sorta thing

Who wants to pick some Dread Powers for my Claimed

And Numen

[little light]

What game system?

[patent talon]

Are these the planetary claimed?

[mighty zephyr]

Yea

To both @little light @patent talon

[patent talon]

Sorry, could you post them again? Discord's search is giving me a post you made a couple of months ago and don't want to suggest stuff that's out of date
Though the train should definitely have the Unbreakable power. Nearly indestructible angel-train sounds pretty fucking cool

[clear delta]

Give the train a chase battle in the middle of a plain filled with its magical smoke. Occasionally going into abandoned buildings that it wrecks

[mighty zephyr]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XT1evCQjyRV7K99lVI4iQ4zRo_V4KFz_JEf4m2a9PR4/edit?usp=sharing

[patent talon]

Implant Mission as Numina for either Jupiter or Mercury. For Jupiter as a demand with the authority of the Red King, Mercury for the dream vision kinda thing.
Rapture or Emotional Aura would fit well, I think

Also I don't know if you want anyone to have the Immortality dread power, that makes them unkillable for more than a scene unless killed by their bane (and also can always be brought back by some ritual) but that'd be neat for Jupiter or Mars, imo

Mainly Mars cause I think someone who always had to accept a duel but will just come back to life if they die appeals to me

[mighty zephyr]

I think I'd do it for Jupiter

[grave gulch]

excuse me nerds and droks

i need some opinions on the Hunter the reckoning 5th edition

i do have 2nd edition of hunter the vigil but i only have the pdf

since i can acquire the physical copy of the recoking one, i wanted to know if it's worth it

i remember people saying the vigil is more of a solid game

but i don't remember the downsides of the reckoning one

[spice abyss]

They're very different games when you get down to it.

While both are focusing on hunting monsters, Vigil has you be mostly normal people for the most part.

Reckoning is more....

[mighty zephyr]

Reckoning is pretty good

I think Vigil is better but you won't HATE Reckoning

[spice abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/mission-for-god-talking-gif-15219970

[grave gulch]

dang

is that 2nd inquisition group also in reckoning?

[mighty zephyr]

Yes

[grave gulch]

oh cool

[mighty zephyr]

The 2nd inq is a BUNCH of hunter orgs

[grave gulch]

yes i remember that detail

it's so cool

they dealt a massive blow to vampire society

did that have any negative side effects?

[clear delta]

Vampire gfs got to buy less dark dresses and tickets to shows

[mighty zephyr]

For humans?

[grave gulch]

yeah

as in like

did any other spooky thing become stronger because of that

or was it all just a huge win?

[mighty zephyr]

Huge win

Well it does probably sucj for civil rights

That there's so many non judicial government agencies that have carte blanch to murder people

[grave gulch]

i see

[mighty zephyr]

That's me inferring from realism tho

And is not directly stated

[grave gulch]

i mean, there were a lot of vampires connected to goverment stuff and big companies

so i can see that having some negative side effects depending on the hit they took

[mighty zephyr]

Far as we know, no

[grave gulch]

kewl

[mighty zephyr]

Still sad I never got to play my Grunge Girl Itheauer

[grave gulch]

Itheauer?

[mighty zephyr]

The Waning Moon

They're the spirit-talkers of the werewolves

[grave gulch]

neat

[clear delta]

The spirit talker auspice.
The spirit talker "tribe" (the tribes are more like cults and guilds) are the bone shadows.
Someone who's both is gonna have strong expectations and pressure.

[grave gulch]

what's their choosen prey?

[clear delta]

Spirits, including ghosts even if they're technically different things. Wonder if they'd include goetia.
Their oath is to pay every spirit their due. So they honor their deals, and beat the shit out of spirits who mess with them.

[grave gulch]

how do they hurt spirits?

[mighty zephyr]

Auspices don't have chosen prey

That's a tribe thing

[grave gulch]

oh

i don't think i know what an Auspice is

[mighty zephyr]

Auspices are the phases of the moon that determine HOW you hunt

New, Gibbous, Crescent, Half, Full Moons

[grave gulch]

i see

[mighty zephyr]

Irraka are the new moons and are stealthy bastards
Gibbous are Cahalith and are prophets and skalds
Crescent are Itheaur and are spirit talkers
Half are Elodoth and are judges and mediators
And Full are Rahu who are beefsticks

[grave gulch]

is beefstick someone beefy?

[midnight grotto]

yeah

They're the best at hulking out

[clear delta]

Oh, thought foks was asking about the tribe's prey

[mighty zephyr]

Yknow

An angel spirit of Andromeda would be 2 million years old

[clear delta]

Well, not much would've happened during travel

Relatively much. Travel time means they must've met some things and entities, I guess

[lofty shoal]

World of darkness! I have been looking for a mage game! Peering with intent

[clear delta]

Which mage?

[queen heron]

witch, mage, same difference tbh

[clear delta]

To the abyss with you

[grave gulch]

i stared at the abyss and it gave me a cookie

[mighty zephyr]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ODDSQc2c1BJ2YhCinorbNC3bSv0ztjmRF4WMUv56ix4/edit?usp=sharing

I have chicken-scratched a buncha shit

possessed

I'll take a break and work on this a bit more later

[patent talon]

Very cool!!

[mighty zephyr]

okay NOW I'm taking a break

[mighty zephyr]

OKAY

It's now somewhat actually legible if you're a normal human

[velvet sparrow]

Oh boy we're having another fight!

There's some uh, fucked up bear attacking us

[spice abyss]

I suggest shooting it with a large caliber

[velvet sparrow]

Nah we're fine I drank all it's blood

I think the bear was high

[velvet sparrow]

I have a question (V20): How fast does a vampire in Tenebrous Form/Bloodform move?

[grave gulch]

is guaranteed that you'll become a werewolf if one of your parents is one?

or you don't necessarily inheritd it

[velvet sparrow]

A chance

[grave gulch]

i see

that makes room for cool hunter stories

[velvet sparrow]

Depending on edition

Which one are you talking about?

Apocalypse 5th is different from Apocalypse pre-5th is different from, uh, whatever the Chronicles werewolf is

[grave gulch]

5th edition, i forgot which wereworlf is set in the dame world as mascarade

[velvet sparrow]

That'd be Apocalypse 5th

I don't know how that works, actually

They changed it a lot from earlier editions, to my knowledge, sorry

[grave gulch]

don't worry

if anything i could just decide myself

I'm picking the hunter 5th e cause i can acquire a physical copy of it here

I can't with the vigil sadly

[velvet sparrow]

:(

[mighty zephyr]

No

Apocalypse 5e has it that werewolves are MORE likely to give birth to other werewolves

but it's not a gurantee

and bloodlines aren't a gurantee

[velvet sparrow]

Are Kinfolk still a thing?

[mighty zephyr]

no

[clear delta]

Cocaine bear reference?

[grave gulch]

ok i want a cute dad story with a werewolf and his daughter who's just a normal lass

that makes me think, are the tribes okay with you spending time with your human family?

i remember you needing to balance the man and the wolf so i feel like that would be allowed

[grave gulch]

AAAAAAAAAAAA

what's a new moon wolf?

[mighty zephyr]

Irraka

[grave gulch]

tell me about the Irraka

[mighty zephyr]

they're the assassins of the pack who are focused on weakening the prey physically mentally and emotionally until they are able to be killed

[grave gulch]

that sounds worse than your average werewolf

[mighty zephyr]

they focus on killing so much that they also constantly think about the most efficent ways to kill their packmates

they usually don't act on it but it's how their brains are wired

[grave gulch]

and at the same time it feels like they take good care of each other

that seems to be the case with the children at least

[mighty zephyr]

This is more a werewolf thing in general

werewolves do not normally hang out with their children

because that's a good way to get that child put in danger

[grave gulch]

makes sense

i feel like everyone would have that problem except maybe the wizards

[mighty zephyr]

nah the mages have a thing called Nimbus

which is a long-lasting aura that slowly fucks over their surroundings and close connections

[grave gulch]

dang

no happy "normal" life for folks involved with the supernatural

[midnight grotto]

important to note that this is Forsaken, not Apocalypse

[grave gulch]

still cute

also I'm sure some of the ideas still work for both

like them not spending time with their offspring for risk of putting them in danger

[grave gulch]

i recently got myself the pdf for most chronicles of darkness books

[clear delta]

Mages can restrain their nimbus

By maintaning a strict division between mortal and magical lives

And by having high wisdom

[spice abyss]

The fact that the kid is remembering seeing her dad in Wolf Form is an incredible sign that she's Wolf-Blooded at the very least.

[clear delta]

Oh, yeah, that

Both apocalypse and forsaken have that protection

It's just that in apocalypse it comes from werewolves massacring humans so hard in the past it got ingrained in their dna to have a massic panic attack at the sight of werewolves

[grave gulch]

hehe

neat

did they have a reason to kill us back then?

or is it more like to the vampires our numbers threaten them in an actual war now?

[queen heron]

Back then being apoc?

Apoc is much more… not quite hopeless

but the world is dying

[mighty zephyr]

I think he means "back then" as in "during the Impergium"

[queen heron]

a prevalent vibe among werewolves isnt solving the issue so much as taking out as much as you can

ahhh right, they had the big shifter empire

I think they were kinda just dicks, right?

the Impergium is treated as werewolves making huge mistakes?