#World of Darkness

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

harsh salmon
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oh absolutely

crystal fern
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you can't just have some jackoff going around and embracing like, 20 mortals in a single night

harsh salmon
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as i think the v5 book states: the camarillas law were traditions long before the convention of thorns

crystal fern
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I guess the major difference is that if you're an anarch there's no written law preventing you from embracing without permission, you just need to judge the political climate (and that might mean asking permission anyway)

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"will this piss off the Baron and her friends" is a salient consideration even if there's no law against it, because there's no law against them dusting your childe, staking you, and throwing you in the ocean to think about what you did

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"Listen here's the thing – I don't know what you kids are up to, but I do know one thing: laws are threats made by the dominant socio-economic, ethnic group in a given nation. It's just a promise of violence that's enacted and police are basically an occupying army, you know what I mean? You guys want to make some bacon?"

harsh salmon
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i love how prince and baron dont become princess and baroness if the prince or baron is a woman

harsh salmon
crystal fern
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I still don't know how I feel about fiction that says "here's a gendered title. it's used in a gender neutral way", because on the one hand, hey cool a gender neutral title, but also it's literally always the male version of the title that women have to adopt, and never the other way around.

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Just for once it would be dope if the default was "Princess" and all the dudes had to reexamine their internalised misogyny

heady kestrel
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I do think it’s partially the titles/language themselves misygonistic to some extent

With princesss and baroness being modifications of the words Prince and Baron rather than their own sovereign titles

Main traditionally feminine titles I can think of that that don’t fall prey to such linguistic misogyny is Queen, Matriarch, Lady, and Dame

somber scarab
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Well... Dame comes from the Latin Dominus/Domina, but no it's not as evident as the -ess titles

mighty zephyr
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Matriarch is also just

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Patriarch

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Queen is also just derived from "wife"

somber scarab
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The roots of "mater" and "pater" go way back to PIE tho (the -arch part just meaning ruler)

patent talon
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Is Boss gender neutral?

mighty zephyr
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No it's feminine

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Big Boss is masculine

midnight grotto
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boooo

rare swallow
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Even the word woman is patriarchal. It's from Old English Wifmann which is just "female person"

mighty zephyr
rare swallow
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Oi bossman got a permit for that MGS3

mighty zephyr
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Genome is booing directly into my empty eye socket

rare swallow
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I know I just have to incorporate bossman into a silly phrase because

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I wanted idk

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(I think "bossman" is very silly)

crystal fern
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I guess the point I'm trying to make is that yes, language has deep rooted misogyny, but it's also an authorial choice to use one word over another and always choosing the male version as a "default" only reinforces patriarchal attitudes

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and this is particularly evident where the author has clearly thought about gender for long enough to go "ah yes, I shall declare that this word can also be used by women and that makes it equal", rather than just unconsciously adopting society's defaults, it's a good start but I want that train of thought to finish somewhere further along

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you might say it's expecting too much from a bunch of male roleplayers writing horror games in the 90s, but idk 🤷‍♀️

rare swallow
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It's definitely a bit of a complicated case because yeah language is steeped in centuries of patriarchal thinking and mysoginy and it's really hard to divorce it from those roots.

mighty zephyr
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I think part and parcel of Prince having the connotations it does is that its explicitly evoking Machiavelli

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Using Prince in the sorta Political Intrigue way

patent talon
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I getcha, honestly I wonder if it was the case that every Prince would be assumed male in the original version of the game, or if they started from "Prince is gender neutral"

crystal fern
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I believe WW did that thing where they flipped back and forth between pronouns so it might have been unconscious but both "he" and "she" are used in the copy I have which I think is Revised

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I don't have a copy of the original edition to hand

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which in fairness to them I feel like is a massive improvement over every other game that I know about from the 90s

rare swallow
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Yeah I have to agree on that front

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It makes an attempt which is more than you can say for most

velvet sparrow
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White Wolf's been using She pronouns in the rulebook all the way back in Vampire 1st edition, to my knowledge

heady kestrel
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The Exarchs and the God Machine interacting would probably be so silly. The Exarchs appear and are trying to pull wizard politics on a divine scale and the god machine is just like “01001001 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101111 01110101 01101100 01100100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100011 01100001 01110010 01110000 01100101 01110100 00100000 01100010 01101111 01101101 01100010 01100101 01100100 00100000 01000001 01110100 01101100 01100001 01101110 01110100 01101001 01110011 00100000”

patent stirrupBOT
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S/he as an aberation was a power 90's game dev's were not ready to handle

Kat (she/her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) which in fairness to them I feel like is a massive improvement over every other game that I know abo…

mighty zephyr
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I'll be honest

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From a reading perspective I'd get really tired of reading s/he or "him or her" for every pronoun use in a book

velvet sparrow
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Nah, it just uses "She" or "He"

heady kestrel
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Ya know, singular they makes this a lot easier

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Just gonna bring it up

rare swallow
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Yup

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It does make it much simpler

lament river
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So I think I came up with a fantastic Tremere character who lives in a condo complex with other mortals. He thinks he's got the whole Masquerade thing down as he always has food ready for visiting Kine. But it's always pizza. For him it's like giving food to ducks. Kine loves pizza!

My gf just helped me make it a whole thing where he orders from the same pizza joint, but never says what he wants. Just, "Hello! I would like a pizza, please!" They have his address and caller ID so technically they don't need further details. He's become a rite of passage for new hires for delivery.

velvet sparrow
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My god

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That's amazing

lament river
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If there are several Kine visiting. He'll order one whole pizza for each person.

crystal fern
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I can imagine a pizza chef getting sick of his shit, seeing if there's any combination of ingredients that he won't tolerate, putting more and more outlandish toppings on every time

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"You'd like 'a pizza', huh? Well we'll see how you like ANCHOVIES AND PINEAPPLE motherfucker"

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the guests: 🤢

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or just like "Okay well what if we gave you NO TOPPINGS AT ALL, how's THAT sound"

velvet sparrow
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None pizza

lament river
spice abyss
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None Pizza, aka basically a flatbread

midnight grotto
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that's some real What We Do in the Shadows energy (complimentary)

lament river
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It's his smug, never fail way of placating Kine.

velvet sparrow
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"Never fail"

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I can think of multiple ways it could fail, lol

lament river
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Pizza joint has been in operation for 50 years, and the grandkids are getting suspicious.

velvet sparrow
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Lmao

lament river
velvet sparrow
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I know, it's great

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Genuinely amazing

lament river
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Thank you, I'm letting my gf know. 😊 She came up with a lot of it.

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I think I've found my V5 character. Or at least a really fun NPC.

supple quail
clear delta
heady kestrel
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I like the idea that they are separate if only for the hilarity of angels and seers of the throne having these awful train wreck allegiances

clear delta
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Too many demiurges running around. Disastee ensues

heady kestrel
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Exactly

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Blunt rotation containing a powerful Angel, a gentry Title and a Tetarch

clear delta
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Archons are ephemeral lichs

heady kestrel
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Angels are also ephemeral this is obviously some wild shit they smoking

clear delta
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Thought this was about demiurges and people working for them?

patent talon
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Do NOT smoke that Minister pack

heady kestrel
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I was must have misread something

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I didn’t just want to say “a seer” for the exarchs

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But I was having trouble finding a more specific goon

clear delta
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Tetrarch?

heady kestrel
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That works

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Gentry are very powerful but they are small enough scale that they can show up

patent talon
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Btw I do love the Ministers a concept. Congrats, welcome to the top of the pyramid of suffering and misery! You get to have your mind scoured by the gods and you can never leave your mystical Citadel

velvet sparrow
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Ack

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I forgot something

patent talon
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Where'd you last remember having it?

velvet sparrow
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How could I forget to mention one of S1lv3r's most important things?

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She has

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A pair of combat boots modified to have heelies

rare swallow
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amazing

velvet sparrow
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(Also she has like, Psychic Paper, from Doctor Who, but that's not as important)

heady kestrel
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Honestly for all the hyping up they got from the community the gentry are suprisingly fightable

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Hard as shit to fight don’t get me wrong

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But the fact they have stats suprised me

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Thought it would be a Cain situation

lament river
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I'm like halfway through reading Vampire v5.

mighty zephyr
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In their own domain they're borderline omnipotent

heady kestrel
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Yeah

heady kestrel
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A lot of examples of beating gentry actually involve going into their little slice of Arcadia, since that tends to be where pacts are relevant

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Become the rightful ruler of the unrightful kings kingdom

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Therefore killing the title

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beating The Year Of Plague from at plague inc

queen heron
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yeah they're more like living quests in Arcadia

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extremely hostile, deadly, living quests

queen heron
# clear delta Tetrarch?

(Seer Archmasters, unlike the Pentacle's "no big nerds allowed" rule, the Seers actively revel in Archmaster control - its part of the Pyramid. Sleeper -> Mage -> Archmaster -> Exarchs)

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and by revel I mean backstab, politic, and avoid

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I imagine most Seers probably do not want to attract attention from the Top

clear delta
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Yup. Archmages are scary, and pentacle only interacts with them when needed

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I was kinda trying to remember whether tetrarchs were just leaders or archmages, haha

mighty zephyr
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I also got that confused

sour zephyr
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i started my vtm bloodlines playthrough, using the unofficial patch
made a tremere lady and picked the gay option for fun
the mod spawned some estrogen in my character's bathroom, which is a fun easter egg
i don't think she can use it though, cause you know, she's a vampire

clear delta
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I thought estrogen was in the base game

velvet sparrow
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I believe it is

sour zephyr
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oh neat

mighty zephyr
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Vampires love estrogen

clear delta
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Don't think there's an actual trans mod, right?

sour zephyr
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none that i know of

velvet sparrow
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What would a trans mod do?

velvet sparrow
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Oh also S1lv3r has been traumatized for reasons I'll explain tomorrow, if you all are interested.

queen heron
solemn helm
heady kestrel
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I have come to a realization

Mage is weirdly good for uncharted esque dungeon crawls

I guess the Mysterioum is there for a reason I’m just suprised

patent talon
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For sure! I never ended up reading the sourcebook about temples

heady kestrel
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I am tempted to fuck around and homebrew some new paths for fun, just because I like homebrewing to understand a system better

clear delta
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Saw the warlocks of arcadia hack? Don't remember from which book it was

patent talon
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There was another path in some book, that was Prime and Spirit as major arcana?

heady kestrel
velvet sparrow
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I have awoken

heady kestrel
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Path name is Apostolics with their nickname being Heretics(or maybe Bishops idk)

velvet sparrow
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So, the unfortunate incident S1lv3r was witness to that may or may not have Impact™️

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Er, if I can talk about my game here

lament river
queen heron
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just go wild with it

heady kestrel
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Yeah I plan to, besides my one idea I already have which is more about who made it

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Because I feel like no normal watchtower would be deficient in fucking prime

queen heron
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Dont know if you got access, but the SoS views are real good for this

queen heron
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Originally Mastigos was inferior Fate

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changed because a lot of that stuff are very modern-occult wizard

heady kestrel
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So the Prime inferior watchtower is gonna be a GM thing

Classic “God Machine Tries To Slide Its Ass Into Your Metaphysics”

queen heron
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one homebrew path Ive seen that commited to Inferior Prime had the reasoning “something is only meaningful as much as its useful - Prime reads as navel gazey, and thus useless”

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nice

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Inferiors are really rich for paths, because a good 60%-80% of them sre “false positives”
The paths bad at them because they think they already get it, usually through another Arcanum

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Like Acanthus going “arcane laws that dictate causality, a system of constant interaction? Sounds like Fate to me” and then slams facefirst into Forces

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Thyrsus see the mind when they look in the mirror, written in the body - every flushed cheek and messy resonance
And so they absolutely have trouble with Mind

mighty zephyr
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Acanthus struggling with Forces is very funny

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"Lightning crashes because it's dramatic. The fuck is an ion?"

queen heron
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I cant tell if I like Forces-inferior or Prime-inferior Acanthus more
Ive seen the latter homebrew a few times, and depending on how you write Fate it does go hard

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but you have to actually write Fate’s medium

mighty zephyr
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It doesn't matter what inferior you give them since they have the two best ones anyhow

queen heron
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but the Forces = narrative tension is funny yeah

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wym Acanthus dont get Space /s

patent talon
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I think inferior Space or Fate could be fun.

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One just saying "there's no inherent connections between things, boundaries are important" and the other "there is no grand design of life, it's just one thing following another"

clear delta
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I was thinking of getting into ascension, but the paths and aeons of star rail are dragging me back to awakening.
Chasing some pathway towards enlightenment until you become an incarnation of a concept is just very nmage.

mighty zephyr
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I still haven't read Ascension

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Probably should at some point

clear delta
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Some Traditions feel more grab bag than others

queen heron
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I haven't properly read Ascension

clear delta
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Say, the society of ether

queen heron
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I might poke at M5, when that comes out

clear delta
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While verbena and hermetics

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Are more unified in their beliefs

mighty zephyr
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I will kinda HAVE to poke at M5

queen heron
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Hermetics are so funny

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because its literally

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the Ars Magica guys

mighty zephyr
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So I might just wait until that

queen heron
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not even "oh its based on the same society"
literally them, originally

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by the time M5s out other wizard games I'm 👀 will be too, so I might've switched to those

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or just stay with Awakening, its not like rpgs phase out

queen heron
clear delta
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From what I got. Ascension does have a focus on how things function through paradigms, but there's a war of ideals, of how the world should be built.

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DaveB, from my memory, describes ascension as having more of a focus of coming together, while awakening you're a weird occultist seeking your own path to power and enlightenment, with some incentive to not cooperate, or to even compete.

queen heron
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Ascensions about pursuing your truth, and influencing people to change the world
Awakenings about pursuing the Truth, and figuring out what to do with world-shaking power

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both have their niches

clear delta
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Well, awakening also has personal truths, but in a different way

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Orders and legacies will disagree about what to pursue

queen heron
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oh absolutely
its my favorite part

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constructing a Shadow Name, figuring out what symbols call to your mage specifically

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Obsessions

clear delta
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Ascension's consensus and concern with mass ascension makes it so you need to include orders in your pursuit of truth

queen heron
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gotta convince people of your dogma

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awakening has leading by example, or changing the world through big, cosmic understandings

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how'd Ascension handle ascension?

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like what does it do

velvet sparrow
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Uh

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🤷‍♀️

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I believe it's up to the ST

clear delta
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Time of judgement? I think it has mass ascension scenarios

velvet sparrow
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It has one, I believe

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Let me look

mighty zephyr
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It has a few

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In that book it also proves the Technocracy as canonically correct

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so y'know

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Probably ignore it

velvet sparrow
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Does it?

mighty zephyr
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Yeah

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The "Technocracy wins" ending is basically all of humanity ascending and all earthly pain and problems cease to exist

clear delta
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Don't other factions also fix things in their endings?

mighty zephyr
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No most make it worse

velvet sparrow
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Er, which one is the "Technocracy wins" ending?

mighty zephyr
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Guhhhhh

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lemme find it

patent stirrupBOT
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that's the traditions winning IWRC, not the tecnocracy

Voy the Nelson Boy ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) The "Technocracy wins" ending is basically all of humanity ascending and all earthly pain and proble…

velvet sparrow
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Yeah, I don't think there is a Technocracy wins ending

hidden rock
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Wait I got Ascencion near hand

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what's the question

queen heron
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whats ascension like in Ascension

velvet sparrow
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If anything, the best ending seems to be the Technocracy and Traditions pulling their heads out of their asses and working together

queen heron
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Awakening has "Become / Edit A Supernal Symbol - return to the Supernal"

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and then examples in like the Corpus Author or Merlin or whatever for what that means

hidden rock
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The main story has everyone becoming a Mage and getting 'their' vision of Ascension

queen heron
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is Ascension only something theoretical, nobodies ever done it?

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not a personal thing?

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more like a state of the world

velvet sparrow
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It's weird

patent stirrupBOT
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Asention in oWoD was everyone awaking and casting off the fase world of the demiurge stuff.

velvet sparrow
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Again, it is entirely up to the Storyteller

hidden rock
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(I mean, the first is clearly meant to be The Big One, but yes)

queen heron
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so is not happened at all, for anyone, yet?

velvet sparrow
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It might have happened to some people

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Up to the ST if they just like, died in a place nobody could find them or Ascended

patent stirrupBOT
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Yeah the first thing to you need to keep in mind about oWoD mage is there is no objective truth, ony the one agreaed apon.

queen heron
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I'm interested to see how M5 handles that

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I saw some of the previous books kinda wobble on if everythings changable

velvet sparrow
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How does V5 handle Golconda?

mighty zephyr
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uhhhh

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Hasn't yet I think

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Other than just mentioning it

velvet sparrow
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Admittedly Golconda is not quite as big a thing in vampire as Ascension is to mage, but they are pretty much the same thing, imo. At least from a meta perspective

hidden rock
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(point for the lines that actually meant for that endstate to happen, looking atcha Prometheans and Chronicles Changelings)

mighty zephyr
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Ah

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Golconda is a Lorebook

patent stirrupBOT
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weird that was a thing in the other V:tM core books, at least as "if the pc's get here some how, tease are the efects"

mighty zephyr
velvet sparrow
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Huh

queen heron
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ironically Prommie had the shorter session devs

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I think the idea of needing an endstate is bad for these games overall though

mighty zephyr
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I like some endstates

hidden rock
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yeah, some

mighty zephyr
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Beast's endstates were pretty cool

hidden rock
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Golconda feels very afterthought-y

queen heron
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not treated as a base part of the supernatural templates though, is what I mean

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or needing an "archmage tier" version

mighty zephyr
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Yeah I getcha

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I think the problem with CofD especially is that they DID make Archmages

hidden rock
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Promethean's pretty much baked in from second one, and that works.

mighty zephyr
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and then said "other splats have equivilants but uhhhhhhh I'm bored"

queen heron
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not in 2e, thank god

mighty zephyr
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They go a little into it in 2e

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But they mainly just say "Archmages are basically immortal and automatically win clash of wills"

queen heron
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yup, like the Rank 6+'s

clear delta
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Werewolves have a mention of turning into beings like the firstborn

velvet sparrow
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I have to go shovel, so I'll be back later

mighty zephyr
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The Werewolf term specifically is Bodhisattva

clear delta
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Sin eaters can fight for control of the underworld

queen heron
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yeah I think the settings expansive enough to let you do wild shit

clear delta
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Vampire devs explicitly avoid high power vampires

clear delta
queen heron
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Werewolves that turn into Spirit Gods, Geists that establish Dead Dominions

queen heron
hidden rock
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Anyhow, the setting has always suffered of the "Critical Will they won't they" issue.

velvet sparrow
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?

hidden rock
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You keep teasing "The EEEEEEEEEEEEEEND"

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But you never really can commit

velvet sparrow
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Ah, yeah

patent stirrupBOT
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I mean oWoD did, and it ended

hidden rock
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(and now it's back)

velvet sparrow
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Until they did- yeah

patent stirrupBOT
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and a lot of fans were not happy TBH

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from what we have seen 5e is a seperate thign form oWoD or CoD though a lot of it's stuff is closer to oWoD

mighty zephyr
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Nah

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5e is a continuation of Old World

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just half of it's a reboot and half of it's old lore

clear delta
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Cofd is the rebirth. 5e is the ressurection.

mighty zephyr
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Rebirth/Reincarnation

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Re re re re re re

clear delta
patent stirrupBOT
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Ehh asuming they don't step in some of the same messes WW steped in perviousaly i would not say they are the same thign but that's realy require more of there stuff to come out, like i don't see Osirus the Vampire and Osirus the god capable of bringing vampires back to life being the same being will be a thing that happens in 5e

mighty zephyr
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They are the same thing though, especially for Vampire.
It's the same setting, terms, characters, everything. Just with some retcons and new mechanics.

clear delta
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"If you ressurect me, bro, retcon some stuff and do surgery on my mechanics first"

patent stirrupBOT
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What i am saying Voy is that the retcons if they keep on being smart will make it into somthing mary much it's own thing.

clear delta
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Wait, do you call it surgery when done on a corpse?

patent stirrupBOT
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I think they callit necro-mechancy

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that sounded a lot better in our head TBH

hidden rock
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The name is "Vicissitude"

queen heron
lament river
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When people make characters in WoD, do they prefer to make characters first or wait until a game is proposed?

velvet sparrow
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I feel like you're probably more likely to be planning for a specific game than WoD in general

mighty zephyr
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Yeah usually

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But I also have

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like 10 WoD OCs

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That I just use sometimes

queen heron
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wait till a game is proposed but also just make Guys when I have the idea

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I almost always make my characters for the session

velvet sparrow
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Not counting characters I'm currently playing I have like, 7 different Vampires I have made

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Only 1 Mage, because Mages are intense

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Two werewolves

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A Changeling

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Scratch the Changeling I don't remember much about them actually

lament river
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Okay. I usually need a game prompt to make a character.

velvet sparrow
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Fair

mighty zephyr
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My Changeling is a therapist that rides a motorcycle that is actually a snow leopard made from the morning mist wafting across a lake

lament river
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I'd like to try and GM a V5 game someday.

heady kestrel
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I read changeling and I loved it but I loved it from a gming perspective I don’t have any Guys in mind

mighty zephyr
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All of my Guys for Changeling are Gentry

velvet sparrow
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Er, Changeling The Dreaming

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I have no CofD characters

heady kestrel
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Valid af

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On both counts

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I did have a demon guy… and he was really fun because he doesn’t know any mage lore but heard about them and wanted to weasel his way up into the supernal realms to escape the GM

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It was one of the examples given for funny Tempter shit

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To try and escape using someone else’s metaphysics

velvet sparrow
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I'd like to play Chronicles, but I'd have to get a book, and then convince someone else in my group to run it because... I really don't think I could run a game right now

patent stirrupBOT
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we have a few WoD OC's that we some times rotate in our head for nostalgia, but like every time we have played we have always just gone with somthing that fits the cronical

velvet sparrow
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To be fair, the only characters I have that actually get developed beyond like, a statsheet and concept are the ones I'm either bringing into a chronicle, or am developing as a backup for if one of my characters in a chronicle gets suddenly killed

heady kestrel
queen heron
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whenever I learn a system I try to make a character like immediately

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always a good test

heady kestrel
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I should make a changeling guy

lament river
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I'm still learning about the lore in V5 and I think I want to keep it with the new stuff. Old WoD looks really overwhelming.

patent stirrupBOT
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Our big one we never use is just a ball of our aingst about being mixed race and white passing most of the time. just a huge aingst ball of an OC.

Maeve, WitchBeaste Fae/Faer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696306100715550 message) To be fair, the only characters I have that actually get developed beyond like, a statsheet and conc…

crystal fern
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STing for V5 is definitely the most prep work I've put into a game in a long time, but that's because it's a game that directly rewards you for time spent creating NPCs

lament river
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Really? That's good to know.

heady kestrel
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Yeah you gotta hand craft all the npcs

#

Artisan crafted goons

queen heron
#

I improv it most of the time, at least for stats

#

have a rough guideline from can't do it at all -> really competent for dicepools

#

but vice, virtue, and key motivations always sketeched out

lament river
heady kestrel
#

😌

lament river
#

I think I've became more jaded about NPC creation because of the whole notion of a gaming party either ignoring or killing them off.

velvet sparrow
#

Actually interacting with NPCs is like, the whole thing of VtM

mighty zephyr
#

Godddddddd I have to stat all these spirits

velvet sparrow
#

If you ignore them the game's gonna get pretty boring/you're going to get in deep shit from someone who's stronger than you that you can't realistically kill,

mighty zephyr
#

I should do that now

velvet sparrow
#

And if you kill them then you get people stronger than you that you can't realistically kill coming after you

#

(And also there's the "talking to your players about, like, the type of game you're actually running" thing that would involve telling them that interacting with NPCs is the entire point.)

mighty zephyr
#

Hey tell me if this sounds unfair

#

2 "High" Rank 4 Spirits
2 "Low" Rank 4 Spirits
2 "High" Rank 3s
2 "Low" Rank 3s

#

Is the make up of my outlaw gang

#

The party is 5 Werewolves with 4 being PU1 and 1 being PU2

lament river
mighty zephyr
#

Also

#

I had a funny idea

#

In the first session my Elodoth used Strings of the Heart on the local priest

#

and asked "What does he want most?"

#

And I said "Irrefutable proof that God is real"

#

Pretty off-the-cuff

#

But now I'm wondering if he sees the power of the Angels and goes "OH"

#

"That's God."

#

And becomes an Occultist.

queen heron
#

High Rank 4 spirits are scary

#

but if youre not running into multiple at a time werewolves probably got it?

#

imo even Rank 3s are scary I just assume Wolves are scary too

mighty zephyr
#

Wolves are scary

#

The pack only barely didn't mulch one because they fell into Kuruth and into in-fighting

#

However one of them was able to cave in a Garou's chest and send them flying about 20 feeet

lament river
#

I'm already working on an NPC list for a potential Vampire game.

mighty zephyr
#

Okay what's a good Influence for a Jupiter-spirit

#

Sky and Domination?

queen heron
#

I'd do Dominion or Authority more than Domination
same thing, but with the focus on self-importance

#

It dominates inherently

#

but thats just a minor vibe thing both seem great

lament river
#

When you make NPCs for Vampire, what details do you like to put in aside from stats?

queen heron
#

maybe Dominance over Domination, or Supremacy

mighty zephyr
#

Wants, desires, and alliegences

velvet sparrow
#

Yeah, those are the important ones

#

What do they want, what can they do to get it, and who's standing in their way

queen heron
#

for vamp specifically I also have a "how do they stave off ennui"

lament river
#

Wow, I always forget those parts. You know the stuff that makes people interesting?

queen heron
#

but thats more reqiuem than masq

#

what makes them feel not-undead

mighty zephyr
mighty zephyr
#

Uuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

#

Someone fill these sheets out for me

velvet sparrow
#

Deadass if I knew the system I would

rare swallow
#

What system

velvet sparrow
#

Werewolf the Forsaken, I believe

#

Don't know if it's 1st or 2nd

rare swallow
#

Oh right

#

Yeah can't help with that

clear delta
#

What's missing?

mighty zephyr
#

2nd

#

I gotta fill out stats

#

Numina

#

And Dread Powers

#

I also have to distribute all the stats from the spirits down to the humans

clear delta
#

Alright. None of them finished?

mighty zephyr
#

Nope

#

I also now have to come up with bans and banes too

#

fuck

clear delta
#

Aight. I have no experience but here goes. Saturn is a judge? The Greek god was abput harvests and that whole "kill the tyrant father, take over". Could do something with cycles for powers. Of harvest, retribution. The horse has a gun dread power and acts as a sheriff. The ban is plants from someone owing or owed some debt or deal. The bane is a scythe forged from objects or used against authority.

mighty zephyr
#

Oh I like that train

clear delta
#

Horsheriff

mighty zephyr
#

Ban: Cannot break any deal that is sworn under the night sky.
Bane: Any weapon used by a criminal to kill a law enforcer.

clear delta
#

Happy to help

#

Numina. Health/bounty vs weakness/decay. Watchfulness over an area

mighty zephyr
#

Actually the example Bane of a Rank 4 spirit of mars is fucking

#

"Rocks from mars"

velvet sparrow
#

Well I hope that's not the case for Saturn

mighty zephyr
#

Actually

#

Saturn: Cannot break out of a ring of stones made to resemble Saturn's rings.

velvet sparrow
#

Ooooh

queen heron
#

Exalted has Saturn as the maiden of endings

mighty zephyr
#

INFLUENCE 4: DEATH

queen heron
#

and I think medieval astrology considered it bad luck overall

#

Cycles, Death - Sleep?

#

I know from Mage you can have a lot of fun with Absence

#

Create Absences

#

gets very esoteric

#

dead people and crops both involve the ground

#

Scarcity, maybe Captivity or Imprisonment with the rings?

mighty zephyr
#

I'm actually getting the juice now hold on

#

Fuck

#

I didn't actually save what ranks everyone was

mighty zephyr
# 
"Herald of the Red King" Jupiter claimed Colton “Reno” Naughton 
Rank 4 (High) 
Influence: Sky 3 Supremacy 4
Ban: Must engage in parley with the leader of a group of at least 99 People when prompted. If the person breaks into hostility, then he is free to enact violence. 
Bane: The weapon of a king. 

"The Panoply of Empty Wars" Mars possessing James “The Rose” Jackson 
Rank 3 High
Influence: Light 3 War 3
Ban: Cannot refute any challenge from someone with a drawn weapon.
Bane: A weapon that has been soaked in the blood of 25 Soldiers. 


"Binds The Mind To Break It" Mercury claimed Willow Artbright
Rank 3 (High)
Influence: Dreams 4 Air 1
Ban: Cannot remain still for more than 2 turns. Takes bashing damage for every turn doing so.
Bane: Emeralds mined from the earth within the last year. 

"Judge From Heaven" Saturn claiming the horse Buckwheat 
Rank 4 (High) 
Influence Death 4
Ban: Cannot leave any circle made to resemble Saturn’s rings. 
Bane: Lead that hasn’t seen the light of the sun in 10 years. 

"Lover Clad In Warrior Raimant" Venus claiming Innocent Van Der Blyt
Rank 3 (High) 
Influence Desire 5
Ban: Must have at least 2 people with the Swooning Condition towards her at any time.
Bane: The bones of a virgin.  

"From High To Low" Uranus claiming the decommissioned steam locomotive “Whistling Betsy”
Rank 4 (Low) 
Influence: Lightning 4
Ban: Must destroy any man-made structure it comes across.
Bane: Any naturally grown stalagmite of at least 7 feet in length. 

"Sings Empty" Ceres claimed Bobby Rennickk 
Rank 3: Low
Influence: 3 Insanity 1 Darkness  
Ban: Cannot enter any place of healing or mirth. 
Bane: Sunlight reflected from a mirror of at least size 3

"Custodian Sancrosanct" Pallas claimed the outlaw Dougie “Dirtface” Tinton 
Rank 3: Low
Influence 3 Earth
Ban: He’s prolly gonna die before this matters
Bane: The blood of a person not guilty of any crime serves as acid. ```
#

BAM

#

NUMBERS ARE FOR NERDS I'll do those later

clear delta
#

For the train one. Uranus. You said you wanted a cool fight so you made it. Oh you already did all that

#

Oh well, no horse ruling over a town and its cycles.

#

I was gonna suggest, for uranus, some effect with the steam to influence the area, and something about being unstoppable.

mighty zephyr
#

Both of these can be Dread Powers

#

Which can be any of these

clear delta
#

Since in myth uranus was about the sky, so steam in the air. And he follows the whole cycle of divine hubris and being taken down. Maybe the steam induces fear and helplessness, or excessive confidence.
Yeah, I'll be taking a look at the list to look for similar stuff.

mighty zephyr
#

I'm definitely getting armor 3 and Juggernaut

clear delta
#

Entrancing song to inflict awe.
For the option of making people feel "unstoppable". Corruption, perhaps?

#

Ah, weathervane for the steam

queen heron
#

the death spirit claimed a horse? thats sick

#

and theres a spirit train?!

velvet sparrow
#

Oh, I just remembered!

#

There were people(?) here interested in maybe running a game of V5?

lament river
velvet sparrow
#

So, I would be interested in playing, although I am unsure how avaliable I would actually be, more importantly, I have a friend who would be interested too

velvet sparrow
#

Aaaaa we're playing in 2 hours An hour and a half

lament river
lament river
heady kestrel
#

Question: do we know anything about the “lower depths” besides that is speculated about?

#

The theoretical “places below the fallen world”

mighty zephyr
#

Lower Depths are alternate realities that Lack A Thing

#

Some inherent symbol of the real world is just completely and utterly absent

heady kestrel
#

Huh

#

Interesting

#

It mentioned that shit from them probably eats mana

mighty zephyr
#

This usually results in the reality itself being either completely inhospitable to human life, or maddening/damaging to come into any sort of contact with

#

Some of them are completely sentient!

#

As in, the whole alternate reality is One Alive Thing

heady kestrel
#

Huh

queen heron
#

The Inferno was intended as one, when the term was made

#

The Duat is considered one, by some devs

#

we know they aren't theoretical, and that its not a political term (as in, Lower Depth means something beyond just some guys opinion)

heady kestrel
queen heron
#

oh yeah Duats even in SoS as one

#

or well "Duat"

#

its the vague crossover allusion

mighty zephyr
#

Yeah SoS mentions Mummy lore a lot

queen heron
#

in general though 90% of wizards aren't gonna know anything about Lower Depths, and even less about any in specific

#

they're just Weird Hostile places

#

core was originally going to have summoning + bargaining rules for their inhabitants, but it was cut for word space

#

its one of the places get their unethical hoobris juice from

#

"Wow! Arcane secrets, and I just have to fufill my new patrons dark hungers? What a steal!"

queen heron
#

I've seen ones that lacked Distinction, so all people there had no defining characteristics and connected in a pseudo-hivemind without bodies
lacking Death or Time, unable to change

clear delta
#

A lower depth creature, for example, is a living plane summoned by cargo cults

#

One dev sees strix as coming from a lower depth

mighty zephyr
#

Me tapping a crowbar in my hand at any lore that says "Mage is the correct cosmology"

queen heron
#

looking at Daves comments on them, they were added partially to add weird cosmological edges

#

prevent the setting from being a purely neat diagram

queen heron
#

its a hard line to thread

#

the Supernal has to be The Troof flat out for its themes, but a certain type of Mage fans are annoying

mighty zephyr
#

The carryover from Asenscion

clear delta
queen heron
#

oh here you go

#

Annwn was a legacy from 1e, not as familiar with the other two

mighty zephyr
queen heron
mighty zephyr
#

I still hate that with a burning passion because what it does is Belittles

queen heron
#

I treat it as Correct in that it does describe the CofD world - objective meaning exists with it present, and the definitions are there

#

assuming you have it present

mighty zephyr
#

It goes "Oh Father Wolf was just a big spirit-thing. Not like the Aeon who I can go talk to."

queen heron
#

you can totally run demon or bluebook without it

clear delta
#

I don't get your complaint

queen heron
#

well they're both still gods

mighty zephyr
#

I don't like taking other splats and going "Oh this is just this thing from Mage"

clear delta
#

Father wolf still exists as his own thing

#

Aeons stay in their astral corner

#

Underworld was for mortals and mages until geist cane

#

The lower depths existing and being used by other gamelines doesn't seem tgat bad. It's a mage element, but it's just a thing that exists in the world rather than supernal magical tbing

queen heron
#

its like the symbols of Fire existing not making fires less

#

Father Wolf was a pillar of the world

clear delta
#

The duat being a mere lower depth I'd get being bad, but not strix

queen heron
#

their death was enough to echo across reality

mighty zephyr
#

It still makes things less when you take the entire toybox of a setting and can fit it into a CORNER of another's.

queen heron
#

I can see what you mean about like

#

setting neatness

#

you'd have to take care to not make the Lower Depths solved if you shove everything else there

mighty zephyr
#

It's also like, if you make the Stryx a lower depth than a Mage just goes

#

"Oh this is like this 1000 other things"

#

And a Vampire goes "This is literally the personal demon of my entire society that's hunted us since the fall of Rome"

#

And the Mage goes "Crazy man"

queen heron
#

but the existence of this stuff just shows the flexibility of lower depths

mighty zephyr
#

It's an especially bad problem when Mages are ALSO incredibly overpowered as it just reads like splat-favortism.

queen heron
#

vampires do have a lot of edge cases, weird stuff, and occult weight

mighty zephyr
#

If you have an entire issue that is societal-scale for another Splat and a Mage just walks by and deletes it and puts it in a book of 500 other things they took care of that month

#

That sucks!

queen heron
#

I disagree with overpowered only because the splats aren't trying to have parity

#

each ones got its own games themes

mighty zephyr
#

I mean Mage doesn't even have Parity with itself.

queen heron
#

you only gotta be concerned with what incentivizes good stories in each one

#

yeah, but the problems with Fate and Time aren't really power problems tbh

#

its about how those play out in the game

#

Fate as abstracted enough its not hooking onto anything specific - and becomes "the rules Arcana", Time in how rewinding player actions feels

little light
queen heron
#

Theres still room to get funky with different lower depths, even with a bunch of different ones

#

change up their origins, have them interact with the metaphysics in funky ways, have them express the truth in their own ways...

#

it doesnt have to be reductive imo

#

The Strix and wherever they're from are still wrapped around Supernal symbols, maybe even moreso with the cruft cast away
Its the opposite of neatly explained - its saying some deeply weird shit

#

Mages also arent gonna be able to overpower or deal with these places anymore than the Deep Shadow

#

they're still human

#

glad that the Hedge and Underworld aren't lower depths too though

#

that would actually collapse the setting too much

mighty zephyr
#

See like I think there's a difference between

#

"These things have supernal symbols"

#

and "I can neatly categorize these things within my cosmology"

orchid void
#

There is, and honestly Voy I don’t remember a lot of like. The kind of sweeping “this is that” in the Text of Mage, just Mages going “the fuck is this? Is it this thing?”

#

I know that folks tend to just do that sweeping because it makes it easier to grok, instead of leaning into Mystery

mighty zephyr
#

We're talking specifically about Devs saying that

#

out of the book

queen heron
#

yeah it'd be like describing all of the phenomenal as 'just' symbols interacting

#

like technically, but its awash in strangeness, its filled with strange truths

#

oh yeah, this is about what was either cut from Core only due to space, or was intended for cancelled books

#

if Fallen Worlds had come out, 99% it would've had the Duat, Dis, and Inferno as lower depths

queen heron
#

so people were quibbling over if they were 'real' or just 'here be dragons' for wizards

#

you just gotta remember that

  • everything pulls on the Truth, not just directly supernal things
  • the truth is literally numinously divine
    and you're usually golden for crossover
clear delta
#

Now for something else. Cool werewolf things you've done or seen? Places, spirits

queen heron
#

Possum, Fat and Hideous, rank 5 Pangaean

#

just a big, 'nice', horrible mother-beast I saw someone use once

midnight grotto
#

My main group of WoD folk are very dedicated to bringing Pentex into CofD

queen heron
#

constaly buried in reclaimed refuse, discarded things, and dozens of lesser broods

midnight grotto
#

I think "Pentex itself is an Idigam" is a fun idea but I don't have it fully fleshed out

#

besides an ancient alien god-spirit seeing corporations and thinking "oh yeah, that, I get that"

#

"gigantic amorphous entity composed of millions of organic and inorganic components that devours anything smaller than it? yeah normal"

mighty zephyr
#

as someone who hates OWoD Pentex

queen heron
#

1-5 dot merit for mortals called "Bargains", acts like Resources, but for using Influence.

#

Drawback that they need to pay in gathra for the transaction, and higher tiers give you a Ban

mighty zephyr
#

Spirit Occultists

queen heron
#

oh neat

#

I know the guy who designed it loves Shadow Occultists, considers them one of the best flavor things in the setting

#

even has some other merits that build off SOs

clear delta
mighty zephyr
#

I don't remember it

queen heron
#

oh its not official, its a vault thing

mighty zephyr
#

Ahhhh

#

(can I still see)

queen heron
#

its why I brought it up for cool things I've seen people do

#

ya

#

(it is the same main author as the last one lol)

#

its mostly just vibes, some smaller systems, example hosts

#

I picked it up ages ago because the shadow confuses me tbh
slips out my head

#

its definitely a little hit or miss but has a fun voice sometimes

#

the why else? is fun

lament river
#

It's so easy for WoD lore to go miles up over my head.

queen heron
#

other than than like

#

anything from Acro

#

https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/1405349-new-gift-the-gift-of-thought

Onyx Path Forums

So a while back I posted up the Drinkers of the Well, a new Tribe venerating Creator Wolf, and the astute will have noticed they have Thought in their affinity Gift list. Here's the Gift itself. As ever with this stuff, this is in first draft form. Gift of Thought Mastermind (Cunning) With wits sharper than a fox, the Uratha is a cunning dev...

#

like I dont even know what half this means but the vibes are there

mighty zephyr
#

Acro's shit is so sick

clear delta
#

Love mortal occultists

queen heron
#

like that Delusion mind gift seems fun

mighty zephyr
#

I'm very hype to use Shadow Occultists

#

Does it say Totems can enter the bargain for Occultists?

orchid void
queen heron
#

mb too, got a little wordy

clear delta
#

Chronicle where a bunch of occultists get up to shenanigans

lament river
#

Man, the system for V5 is interesting but I need to be in a mood to play something with that much moral ambiguity

midnight grotto
# clear delta Oh, this is amazing

Danke. I have no idea how it would actually work narratively/mechanically but I really like the idea of an Idigam being able to take on the form of an organization

mighty zephyr
#

If nothing else

#

It's gonna be good to hand to my players

little light
#

Its easier to see your characters as heroic when they are fighting monsters of the night

lament river
#

Glad picked up a copy than, lol. But yeah, sometimes it can be hard to get into the spirit of Vampire, in the way it talks about your eventual moral decay.

little light
#

Gothicpunk be like that

lament river
#

But it does look like Humanity is a resource you can get back, so can have the push and pull angst of being a vampire.

little light
#

Yeah its not as nihlistic as a game like cyberpunk imo, you can “get better”

lament river
#

Being undead everyone is going to struggle with maintaining their humanity. The gameplay is about maintaining it, losing it, and possibly getting it back.

#

V5 says that Kindred who want to maintain or increase Humanity get very involved with Kine communities.

#

I also like that the Kindred have the best chance of survival when they work together and maintain their communities. Gee, it's like acting like a classic reclusive vampire makes you some kind of monster or something...

little light
#

lol true

orchid void
#

I always treat WoD as an excuse to make the most interesting kind of awful dipshits and shove them into Situations

mighty zephyr
#

Is it culturally approptiative to have the local God of the Thunder and Lightning courts be the Thunderbird

orchid void
#

I am unsure, it would be a good start to dig into the regionality of thunderbird stories first

#

And then see if it’s appropriate to the area you’ve set things

mighty zephyr
#

Having one of my players be Indigenous who's been diving into several other American cultures as a special interest is definitely handy

#

If not Thunderbird

#

Who's the head honcho of the sky in the west would you think

orchid void
#

Hrmn

#

If you’re in the southwest you could use the Anasazi folk hero

#

The Slayer of Alien Gods, is how I remember his name being translated

#

He went to the sky to whip ass and take names, but it has been forever since I read actual sources so as always Do Research

clear delta
#

With blackjack and hookers

midnight grotto
#

not intended as a WoD meme, but

velvet sparrow
#

Game was alright last night

#

We made some progress in the investigation. Kinda boring progress, but progress nonetheless.

#

We might be dealing with someone pretending to be a vampire?

queen heron
#

I cant see that ending well

velvet sparrow
#

🤷‍♀️

#

They seem to be going around tearing the throats out of random people

lament river
velvet sparrow
#

Yeah

#

And now I get to talk to them :)

lament river
spice abyss
#

Or another sort of messy eater

velvet sparrow
#

Another weird thing is, our Malkavian used a bit of Malk powers on the whole thing and tasted silver in their mouth

#

We found slivers of what looked like silver in the busted knuckles of one of the victims,

#

And in our investigations we found a conspicuously missing silver denture fang thing from a weird shop

#

I hope it's not actually a vampire, and just someone pretending to be

#

That would be much more fun, I think

#

We did possibly find the dude we saw on camera footage following the one that wasn't killed in her bed, though

lament river
#

Someone's giving Kindred a bad name. That's the Kindred's job!

velvet sparrow
#

What should I do to the person...

#

Oh, in other news, I'm 9 experience away from what might be one of the freakiest Vampire powers avaliable

#

Absolutely one of the freakiest that isn't wild Elder shenanigans

#

I can't wait

rare swallow
#

I think my cool Nosferatu occult scholar is gonna die already

#

So short lived

velvet sparrow
#

Oh no

#

What's happening?

rare swallow
#

We probably trespassed into some Tzimisce's hideout, there's a Zulu Form staring us down from a distance

velvet sparrow
#

Oh

#

Might I suggest running?

rare swallow
#

We will

sour zephyr
velvet sparrow
sour zephyr
#

It doesn't seem to be in the rulebook i have

rare swallow
#

The plot I think is thickening on the Zulu form

velvet sparrow
#

Oh, it's not a power in V5

#

What it does is it lets you
physically transform all or part of her body into sentient vitae.

rare swallow
#

(that's because what they did to disciplines in V5 is objectively the worst part about it)

#

Who thought combining obteneration and necromancy was a good idea

velvet sparrow
#

Hey, at least Obtenebration got to actually keep all their powers

rare swallow
#

I'm mostly crying about the necromancy

#

Tbh blood magic just feels… bad

#

In general

velvet sparrow
#

Yeah, from what I've heard they nerfed it hard

velvet sparrow
clear delta
#

Find another meaning for "get drunk"

velvet sparrow
#

Unfortunately, if all of me gets drunk, I die

little light
rare swallow
#

Oh did I tell you all my Nosferatu has wings?

velvet sparrow
#

It's normal vampire blood, and can be used for anything vampire blood can be used for

rare swallow
#

Wait did I show you all the sketch I got

velvet sparrow
#

You did not intensifeyes intensifeyes

rare swallow
#

How do I stop embed?

#

Just dont wanna bombard the screen with pictures

mighty zephyr
#

If you add it all into one post it'll collapse things automatically

#

just don't post them all individually

rare swallow
#

I didn't

#

I posted as 1 thing

#

I figured it out tho

velvet sparrow
#

Amazing

rare swallow
#

I love them

#

They got wings because their grandsire has wings? (Neither me or them know how their grandsire has wings, but everyone points it out, like "oh you have wings like him")

#

Anyways storyteller said "btw you can start with 1 dot in flight if you want wings on your character because reasons" and I said fuck yeah

velvet sparrow
#

lmao I'd say fuck yeah to that too

little light
#

How do they hide them?

#

Or are they not camarilla

velvet sparrow
#

Obfuscate?

#

They are a Nosferatu

rare swallow
#

Actually simple, obfuscation 3 or the Storyteller accepted they can make a cloak with the wings (because it's cool AF) like in the show Gargoyles, then they put another normal cloak above

#

Doesn't work on windy days

little light
#

I had forgotten that power existed lmao

#

My first thought was giant hiker backpack

velvet sparrow
#

What edition are you playing Júlia?

rare swallow
#

V20

#

Bit home-brewed for the Welsh setting

velvet sparrow
#

Nice!

rare swallow
#

And to make combat less clunky for us all

velvet sparrow
#

Oooh could I get a peek at that combat homebrew?

rare swallow
#

But yeah it's fun kinda living world situation where old characters come back as NPCs and sire people and stuff like that

rare swallow
velvet sparrow
#

Fair

rare swallow
#

Anyways pray I don't frenzy or they might actually die

little light
rare swallow
#

I actually know like 5/8 of the people in this server IRL

#

Visited them in Wales last time I was over in the UK

#

(my wife and I are trying really hard to move there)

#

Anyone wants to see the character sheet for Vivien

#

(That's their name)

velvet sparrow
#

If you're willing to share, sure!

rare swallow
#

I'll DM to not clutter this too much with images

velvet sparrow
#

If anyone has fun ideas for what I can do with freely being able to transform myself into a pool of sentient blood, I'm all ears

#

Not literally, this time

clear delta
#

Make drills?

velvet sparrow
#

Drills?

clear delta
#

Compress and hide. Really hard to detect. Good to spy

spice abyss
#

Make a funny crime scene as a prank

rare swallow
#

Prank your hungry friends

velvet sparrow
velvet sparrow
velvet sparrow
rare swallow
#

Not sure tbh, was mostly a joke suggestion

#

Put an unsuspecting goblet in a table and go into it

#

And wait

velvet sparrow
#

Like, I'd rather not have them drink me, because that would blond them and that's not a thing I really wanna do to them, both in and out of character

rare swallow
#

Fair

clear delta
#

Do you get "digested" or cause blood bound if you enter an ally's veins?

#

If not, hiding spot

velvet sparrow
#

If I enter through the mouth, consumed. If I enter through somewhere else, it would be up to the ST

clear delta
velvet sparrow
#

I also become immune to physical attacks when in bloodform, and it's entirely free to use

rare swallow
#

No?

velvet sparrow
#

Okay that would be pretty funny

velvet sparrow
clear delta
velvet sparrow
#

It doesn't even cost an action to do, although the ST might say "No you can't transform in and out of it multiple times in a single turn." and would be justified in doing so

#

It also doesn't say how fast I move, which leads me to believe I'd move at normal speed

#

I can also crawl over people to make them "fly into a panic"

#

(Mortal or animal)

rare swallow
#

Nice

velvet sparrow
#

But yeah, Vicissitude is just a real fun power cause it's so open to interpretation

#

I have plans to start doing ridiculous shenanigans with it, later

#

Echolocation

#

That thing pistol shrimp have

#

Electroreception

#

Will the ST actually allow me to do it?

#

Maybe.

#

Will I try?

#

Absolutely.

#

Although I gotta buy up like, 4 dots in Science (Biology) before I can do that though

rare swallow
#

Sounds fun

velvet sparrow
#

From zero, too, cause I have no dots in it currently

rare swallow
#

At least abilities are cheap

velvet sparrow
#

I do have Vicissitude 4, currently, which I have flavoured as me turning into a Shoggoth made of flesh, which is fun

rare swallow
#

So turns out the Tzimisce was just extremely territorial

#

We got tossed around a bit, eventually yeeted off their domain

#

And they just went back inside

#

(it really hurt)

#

Makes me extremely curious to know more about them, feels weird that they'd do all that just to protect their domain but not try to off us, just get us out

clear delta
#

Maybe some weird personal etiquette

rare swallow
#

Probably

clear delta
#

"They don't know how badly they're fucking up. I'll let them off with a warning"

rare swallow
#

Apparently there's a chance they're not sabbat? ((A fellow pc rolled so well on an int check they got this "you have a feeling maybe from these context clues")) so they could very well be someone we know

#

Either way we're definitely not visiting again lol

velvet sparrow
#

Well, they might not know who you are

#

In which case, they either might not know if they can take you in a fight, or they might not want to risk pissing off somebody important by killing you

rare swallow
#

Yeah

#

Either way we lived!

velvet sparrow
#

Hell yeag!!

#

Honestly, I'd say there's more reasons for them to not want to kill you than to kill you, myself

rare swallow
#

Yeah

#

Or really they have no interest in killing and just wanted to teach a lesson in trespassing as Wax said

velvet sparrow
#

Oh yeah

#

You're vampires too, which means you're people, so...

rare swallow
#

If they're maybe not sabbat, maybe they follow path of humanity

#

Maybe, as well

crystal fern
#

of all the Sabbat-aligned clans the Tzimisce feel like individual members might have the most reason to be functionally autarkis, the old clan stuff runs deep

rare swallow
#

Yeah

#

Tzimisce are cool tbh, I should try making one next

#

But I'll probably fall to the familiarity of Nosferatu

velvet sparrow
#

Tzimisce are very cool.
Trust me, I'm not biased

rare swallow
#

My character concept would have worked just as well with one tbh

#

But the idea of playing a very unusual nos amused me

velvet sparrow
#

Playing non-stereotypical members of clans is very fun

rare swallow
#

My current objective for them is to try to learn Thaumaturgy from someone

velvet sparrow
#

Ooooh

#

Risky

rare swallow
#

I took Rival sires for them

#

I think the idea is that they were going to be a tremere

#

And a Nosferatu got to them first

velvet sparrow
#

Oooh, fun

rare swallow
#

Tremere or a kindred from any other clan that would be interested in siring a nerd about occult topics

velvet sparrow
#

So, Gangrel, then?

rare swallow
#

Lol

#

There's like a bloodline in the custom welsh setting by my friends that fits the bill as well

velvet sparrow
#

Oooooh 👀

rare swallow
#

Imagine tremere but dark academia and they have to wear masks for an unknown reason

velvet sparrow
#

Oh no :(

#

Now I want to play as one of them ;;w;;

rare swallow
#

Awh

#

They have a ridiculous selection of disciplines

#

Like really strong

#

But they have like 3 clan weaknesses

velvet sparrow
#

I don't suppose your friend has a writeup about them they'd be willing to share?

rare swallow
#

To compensate

velvet sparrow
rare swallow
#

They're Obteneration Obfuscate and Thaumaturgy

clear delta
#

Obtenebratiom plus thaumaturgy?

velvet sparrow
#

My favourites

rare swallow
#

I know

#

3 clan weaknesses

#

Tho

#

The one player who's playing one is having troubles

velvet sparrow
#

That just means 3 times the drama!

rare swallow
#

They've got the whole instant masquerade breach thing going on

#

For starters

#

Nightmares+

#

And the third is related to the mask thing as well

velvet sparrow
rare swallow
#

I could ask

#

They're all asleep rn tho because Bri'ish

velvet sparrow
#

Except for the Nightmares+, that doesn't sound super interesting to me

#

Thank you!

mighty zephyr
#

@queen heron Btw this spirit book fucks

#

It's been great for churning my mind butter on spirits

midnight grotto
#

got to thinking

#

which WoD nasties are best for doing Some Evil Dead 2 Deadite Shit?

mighty zephyr
#

Ghosts?

#

I feel like everything that Deadites can do Ghosts can do

midnight grotto
#

specifically thinking about like, the ol' "oooh don't hurt me I look normal" trick they love to pull and the inverse where they can suddenly get way more warped and monstrous

#

yeah but not just in ability but also like, vibes

mighty zephyr
#

I would also say ghosts hit the vibe too

#

Maybe just a rank 3-4 one who isn't a tragic person anymore but this Underworld Denizen who has decided

#

FUCK THESE GUYS

clear delta
#

Got up from the underworld and chose violence

mighty zephyr
#

Like what vibes in particular do you want to hit

#

because I think "malevolent thing that possesses everything around you and is actively trying to kill you and/or drive you insane" is perfectly valid for a ghost

clear delta
#

So, some of the keys have literal plus metaphorical meanings. Would a ghost with gravedirt key as influence affect historical places?

queen heron
#

looks like it

#

The Key of Grave Dirt is resonant when the Bound unlocks a Haunt in a place, or on a target, dedicated to the past

#

its actually the first thing mentioned

#

the underground part is added on at the end

#

It’s entirely possible that even though a Sin-Eater died by drowning after falling from a bridge they may find they resonate with anoth- er Key. Perhaps the bridge and the deaths on it are part of a larger history (Grave Dirt) or they were pushed (Blood)

#

another sidebar brings up Grave Dirt = long running history

mighty zephyr
#

I think

#

The spirit I'm putting in charge of the Storm spirits is going to be the Crown of Thunder

#

I really like this name

#

Though he's probably like Rank 6

#

So I should go longer

#

The Stormcrown Of Neverending Rumble

clear delta
#

Rank 4 geist fabricating historical documents

mighty zephyr
#

I should have a gatling gun be welded to the train car

clear delta
#

Yes

lament river
mighty zephyr
#

Oh I should elaborate

#

I should have a gatling gun on the train car (that is possessed and will come to life)

clear delta
#

Oh, the gatling gun was there before the spirit?

mighty zephyr
#

They welded it specifically FOR the spirit

queen heron
#

watching Over the Garden wall (again) and thinking (again) about how fantastic it is for Changeling stuff

mighty zephyr
#

Correct

queen heron
#

I mean its way nicer than the Hedge, even ||The Beast|| can't really do anything if you don't let him

#

but like

#

the vibes are 100% there

mighty zephyr
#

The Gentry can't unless you let them either

#

There has to be a deal broken

#

Even if you don't know and even if the agreement is older than fire

#

It has to be a deal

queen heron
#

He's a good antagonist to represent Gentry that have to use very oblique methods

#

even something as simple as grabbing ||his Lantern|| he can't seem to do himself though, none of the Gentry's "Stare at me and go instantly insane"

mighty zephyr
#

Also opera for the gentry is fucking aces

queen heron
#

or just the surreal stuff

#

like yeah welcome to the Dancing Frog place

orchid void
#

Over the garden wall is the Hedge :3

#

Just past where you thought you were

queen heron
#

except a lil nicer

rare swallow
#

My wife and I have a yearly fall tradition to watch that show

#

It's definitely big Changeling energy

mighty zephyr
#

Anyone have any cool ideas for Talens of Fetishes I could fit into my werewolf game

mighty zephyr
#

Also

#

I have decided the spirit of the Senora Desert

#

is just gonna be a Senorasaurus

#

who another werewolf pack transplanted as the ruler a couple centuries ago before dying out

clear delta
#

Found this in the forums. A tribe for Creator Wolf

#

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/1384919-new-tribe-the-drinkers-of-the-well-followers-of-creator-wolf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwippreli6WCAxWyNTUKHSEKCykQFnoECAcQAg&usg=AOvVaw3s9BvYaiiz9_l-AvUfehM6

Onyx Path Forums

Something I drafted up a while back for a request - so here it is on the forums at last, the first draft of the Drinkers of the Well, followers of Creator Wolf! Obviously this is a purely theoretical tribe that might come into existence from the return of Danu-Ur in a given chronicle. I'll think about maybe popping up the Thought Gift some time...

heady kestrel
#

Mage villan(terrifying):
The Prime 5 Banisher

#

It’s him, John “weird zealot who knows all the counterspells”

clear delta
#

"Counterspell this."
Frames him for multiple crimes, teaches crows and ravens to hate him, hides transparent legos across the house and inside his shoes.

heady kestrel
#

Tbf prime 5 lets him do a lot more than counterspell

#

Like make guys

clear delta
#

Still mana intensive

heady kestrel
#

Ofc, that’s why he is gonna steal yours

clear delta
#

Can't steal if you don't fight him directly.

heady kestrel
#

True

heady kestrel
#

Wild that there is an incredibly high effort torment nexus spell

#

Space 5+Forces 3+Mind 4+Time 4

#

To trap someone in a Hell you made up

mighty zephyr
#

It's probably way wasier to just do Time + Life to make someone experience 1000 Years of Pain

heady kestrel
#

Oh the trick with this one is it isn’t even them expirencing, it’s clones of them

#

You trap someone in a time accelerated pocket universe where they watch cloned of themselves be tortured for a billion years

Like

This one wasn’t even invented by the guardians of the veil
I expect this behavior from them

#

But the rote is used most often by the Mysterium and Free Council of all people

heady kestrel
#

bros really just invented HELL

mighty zephyr
#

image of the mage in question

#

Oh fuck

#

I can put Big Lincoln in my Cowboy Werewolf game

pulsar island
heady kestrel
#

That is very cool

#

I don’t think I like the derangement system, at least how its used in mage

Like I got a laugh out having anxiety making you weak to fate magic, but using actual mental illnesses is always kinda uncomfy

#

Especially when they are tied to a morality mechanic

clear delta
#

That's why 2e took it off

midnight grotto
#

1E's morality/sanity system was very Gothic in the traditional sense. Doing crimes made you mentally ill

heady kestrel
#

Oh have I been reading 1e this whole time time

midnight grotto
#

Maybe

#

What books have you been reading?

heady kestrel
#

Yep I checked my ass has been reading 1e

midnight grotto
#

Rip

heady kestrel
#

Why they got the same cover 💀💀💀

clear delta
#

Unfortunately, a lot of books are from 1e. Onyx path won't realease them again for 2e, as it's easier to let people adapt them

midnight grotto
#

Yeah it's not ideal

#

1E Mage has some of my favorite interior art though

#

So at least you got to see that

heady kestrel
#

It does have great arts

midnight grotto
#

It's a very distinct style

clear delta
#

Astral realms sometimes just keeps going on about exploring "twisted/dark thoughts". Edgy.

#

But is otherwise a fun book

#

Was looking for mage stuff online and found some mastigos narration about how members of the path are "punished for [their] derangements." The derangement system is a real annoyance

heady kestrel
#

And they got rid of it in 2e?

clear delta
#

Oh, the mummy 1e book was funny. Explaining how memory worked.
"How do you affirm your identity? Morality!"

heady kestrel
#

In general I don’t think the morality systems add much in these besides being a weird resource mechanic

clear delta
midnight grotto
#

You have loads of power but very little connection to your past self

midnight grotto
clear delta
#

Mortals have integrity instead of morality. It is basically your mental health. It can decrease from doing bad things, but that's because of the trauma and being shaken in your idea of yourself.

#

At low integrity, you're a wreck

#

Deviant's stability is replenished through attacking the targets of your anger.

heady kestrel
#

I really like the demon cover system

mighty zephyr
#

Integrity actually is less mental health and more like

#

Self centering? Idk

#

But all it really does is affect certain rolls and possession

queen heron
#

Morality conditions are fun

#

idk of the tracks need to be s granular

#

the resource thing isnt how it should feel, yeah

heady kestrel
harsh phoenix
#

TIL that this franchise was largely responsible for popularizing the "vampire vs werewolf" trope

queen heron
#

I'd believe it

mighty zephyr
#

Does the Bible have any holy blades in it?

#

I am thonking

queen heron
#

the angel that keeps Man out of the Garden of Eden has a big flaming sword

#

its said to "turn every which way"

mighty zephyr
#

Ooooo

#

I'm thinking about my priest npc

queen heron
#

thats all I can think of thats swords and in the bible

heady kestrel
queen heron
#

technically like, King Arthur and the Irish Epics have holy swords and are christian

heady kestrel
#

“Then Joshua turned back at that time, and captured Hazor and struck its king with the sword; for Hazor formerly was the head of all these kingdoms. They struck every person who was in it with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them; there was no one left who breathed. And he burned Hazor with fire. Joshua captured all the cities of these kings, and all their kings, and he struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed them; just as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded.”

#

The sword in this

#

It isn’t named or anything

mighty zephyr
#

OOOO

#

This might fit

#

My idea is the priest is given a dagger which essentially can cut a hole into space and let's void spirits in.

#

Specifically always with the sun behind him

#

So he opens it and is just wrenched into space.

queen heron
#

could make it the same sword

#

"He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life."

"it was driven out; and east of the garden of Eden were stationed the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword, to guard the way to the tree of life. "

"He expelled the man, stationing the cherubim and the fiery revolving sword east of the garden of Eden, to guard the way to the tree of life. "

#

theres a lot of intepretations of the genesis one

#

but turning in every direction or always revolving, idk, has some space thematics

#

maybe it cuts along unseen dimensions

mighty zephyr
#

Oh no his faith is being manipulated by aliens

#

But a fucked up dimension sword is just what the doctor ordered

queen heron
#

oh yeah I wasn't assuming it was literally the sword

#

just kinda an allusion

mighty zephyr
#

It's an angel from another planet needing to find a suitable human patsy

harsh phoenix
#

Is this the Anglican Church conspiracy from Hunter?

keen bluff
# mighty zephyr Does the Bible have any holy blades in it?

It sounds like you have what you need, but off the top of my head; there's the Lance of Longinus which was used to determine if Jesus was dead on the cross, the jawbone Samson used to go ham on the Philistines, and the sword Methuselah(!) used to kick the shit out of a ton of demons in the Book of Enoch

little light
heady kestrel
#

I love how some spells in mage(and this applies to other game lines too) have effects like it is a tactical combat game but due to the context of it being a simulationist game have completely different context

#

Like the “damage you when you move” debuff being an instant kill to anyone on a motor bike or convertible

#

Splatter the entire street in gore

#

I do think its funny that without creative thaumaturgy demons are better at dimensional travel than mages

rare swallow
#

I finally gave a look at how Risen work and I gotta say, Serendipity and Fascinate (the Risen exclusive Arcanoi) are some hilarious powers

#

The power of being in the right place at the right time is just funny to me

queen heron
#

imo compelling or ruling [Arcana] opens most doors that want to be opened

#

like a hedge portal

somber scarab
#

It's pretty great