Yeah you have a dark black on those already, so you can slowly highlight up.
#Warhammer and Such
soft willow
pseudo shuttle
at least for the colouring
the edge highlighting im still scared
at least its not a lot of the body thats black
soft willow
If you want a more beginner friendly option you can just try drybrushing a grey in there and see if you like the result.
pseudo shuttle
although they are in awkward places
i assume
soft willow
It won't be the nicest painted, but it's a decent shortcut.
pseudo shuttle
forearms thighs and shoulderpad trim
and whatever you call the eagle decal on the front of the armour
soft willow
Also absolutely don't compare the work you're doing here to like competition painters, it's a whole different gameplan for how to approach the project.
pseudo shuttle
oh in no way am i gunna do that dw x3
soft willow
Some people do, so I try to caveat that for folks.
I really wish I still had my first model to show people.
pseudo shuttle
just as long as they look good to my own standards i guess
soft willow
Yup, and if you want to get better you can just judge it based on how you compare to your previously painted models.
pseudo shuttle
thats what im doing basically
pseudo shuttle
oh god edge highlighting is not what i thought it was
jaunty dawn
Hmm?
pseudo shuttle
i thought it was only like
raised edges you could get an angle on
like uh
like these parts of the space marines knee pads
stuff thats got the clear angle and you can angle your brush on it
jaunty dawn
As opposed to…?
pseudo shuttle
painting round every edge
pseudo shuttle
i guess its just a diffrent in quantity than i was expecting
jaunty dawn
How on this shoulder pad the eavy metal ppl painted a linear highlight where the body of the shoulder pad meets the trim?
pseudo shuttle
yeah stuff like that exactly x3
jaunty dawn
Yeahhh
I think that looks really bad but they do it all the time lol
Um
So the thing is both are edge highlighting
And like any amount you do is doing edge highlighting, you dont have to meet a certain amount to be doing it right
pseudo shuttle
well i imagine if i only do like, a bit of it , it'll just look out of place/inconsistent?
jaunty dawn
Not necessarilyyy
You can use that to like suggest light direction n stuff
and part of the reason I find that shoulder pad egregious is that its suggesting a bevel catching the light where one wouldnt exist and so it looks really strange
Or wouldnt necessarily exist I suppose
pseudo shuttle
https://youtube.com/shorts/lCfHmgZmTrU?si=Y9AGTeoKEBjjZeop
this is the one that made me intimidated x3
if you want an example of where my heads at
jaunty dawn
Mmm yeah I can kinda see that yeah
Like shallow edges where the elbow pad is
They are for sure a little more tricky
pseudo shuttle
all i can do really x3
sour sequoia
like these parts of the space marines knee pads
This is basically what it is but GW’s boxart team edge highlights every single vertex of a model to show off the sculpt. Its actually kinda ass
Do not do this it will drive you insane for no benefit
sonic hare
i only really edge highlight weapon edges, shoulder pads, and helmet/headdress edges
its definitely not worth it to go as hard as the gw boxart people do
pseudo shuttle
perishing in the flames of inconsistency
just once, i wish i could find a "this is how you do X" guide and not have it be subjective
mental birch
pseudo shuttle
wow these games do have a lot of terrain
mental birch
wow these games do have a lot of terrain
The 'correct' amount of terrain
pastel rampart
The "correct" amount is rather anemic all told, mostly because it's all the same tiny little I or L-shaped blocks with one floor and minimal scatter terrain.
Good enough for tournaments but it feels...basic.
pseudo shuttle
i always thought it'd be like
1 in each corner and maybe like, 2 in the middle
pastel rampart
That's more the WHFB experience.
pseudo shuttle
WHFB?
desert jay
Warhammer Fantasy Battles
desert jay
But classic WHFB is a rank and flank game
pseudo shuttle
so what is the actual rules for amount/type of terrain/cover?
minimum piece count? required shapes?
jaunty dawn
Specific layouts for matched play
vital barn
apparently in the new campaign book a) Agripinaa is under siege (again, as usual) but very much not untaken and b) the new Archmagos gets 1v1ed by a rando warsmith but is rescued by the Iron Hands
most of the heroism is done by the Cadians and the Iron Hands but hey, forge world's still there
Admech chalks up another minor L but could be worse
jaunty dawn
And mostly ruins because those are the ones that become pure los blocks
pseudo shuttle
and is it always the same places on the board they're set up?
jaunty dawn
Uh theres multiple layouts
pseudo shuttle
jaunty dawn
You can obv do what you want in narrative or casual play but thats what the game is balanced around in terms of its lethality
pseudo shuttle
gotcha
jaunty dawn
And then each season of matched play theres specific mission and layout combinations used
pulsar cairn
Penny is really cool 
pseudo shuttle
man im looking into some of the stats of things
Incursors just look, much more helpful than infiltrators
jaunty dawn
So a big part of that is the infiltrate core special rule that infiltrators get is really good
pseudo shuttle
ahh
im seeing it now
...couldnt i just give the guy leading the unit the Blade driven deep enhancement
and then that unit of incursors do have infiltrators?
if im understanding things right anyway
jaunty dawn
Indeed :)
Idk what sort of thing itd be ideal to use the enhancement on but that is how the rules work yes
pseudo shuttle
...can enhancements go on any HQ?
wait so
i could have
Infiltration terminators??
jaunty dawn
Any character yes, plus any additional restrictions from the enhancement itself; but terminator leaders are infantry, so thats fine yeah!
pseudo shuttle
well thats
terrifying
not sure i know what i'll even do with this knowledge besides giving incursors infiltrate x3
...infiltrator desolation squad
...wait
can you just
deploy ontop of an objective with infilitrators?
jaunty dawn
mhm!
which also potentially protects from the enemy doing the same with their infiltrators
pseudo shuttle
im seeing...
if i remember right 40k games are only supposed to last....4 turns? right?
jaunty dawn
5 I believe
pseudo shuttle
i've never actually been super clear on how you win a game
i know objectives exist and thats kinda it
mental birch
Exactly 5 turns
main pagoda
primarys and secondaries score you VP which in turn makes you win
pseudo shuttle
do objectives matter for primaries and secondaries?
jaunty dawn
all primaries and some secondaries iirc
main pagoda
probably worth reading through the chapter approved stuff for rules for games
pseudo shuttle
i think im remembering a bit
so a primary would be like, capture objective 4, and then secondaries are things like uhhh
slay the monster? or whatever its called where you get a point for destroying a vehicle or monster?
i could be entirely misremembering my only exposure to rules was uhhh
8th? edition i think
jaunty dawn
uhh so thats pretty much how secondaries work
or can work
though there aren't specific objective numbers like in 8e
while the primary will be something like Hold this many objectives for this many points each round
usually not including the first round
sour sequoia
Besides how you mark up Supply Drop lol but even then its just mnemonics than labels
pseudo shuttle
todays been an informative day
are uh
how do i phrase this,
what were those things that determined how many of a unit type you could bring in 8th?
like, super heavy auxilary let you bring 3 lord of war
are those still a thing?
main pagoda
thats a 7th ed thing
pseudo shuttle
....damm maybe i played 7th edition then?
were primaris a thing in 7th?
i thought that was an 8th thing
main pagoda
they came in 8th yes
pseudo shuttle
oh then i did play 8th
so , what determines how many of a thing you can bring now? just how many points you're willing to spend on it?
floral herald
And rule of 3
pseudo shuttle
so just no more than 3 of a thing?
atomic apex
Three of each
floral herald
Can’t take more than one of an epic hero, more than 6 of the same battleline datasheet, or more than 3 of the same datasheet for anything else
atomic apex
Six for battleline
pseudo shuttle
got it
so i cant bring for example
4 land raiders
this is good to know...
wait do unit sergeants not have diffrent stats nowadays?
atomic apex
Most of the time no
atomic apex
Sometimes they have slightly different weapons
And there's I think a few cases where the unit leader still has a different statline, but it's pretty rare
mental birch
Going away in 2 months
tired cairn
Well, 11th keeps the codexes for a bit. So that part will remain the same
pseudo shuttle
i expect 11 will at least be close to 10
sour sequoia
11th is lookin like 70% of 10th DNA, the sequencing/resolution/scoring changes are pretty big
mental birch
Please assymetrical missions be good
rocky shale
...can enhancements go on any HQ?
The enhancement will say what it can go on
pseudo shuttle
The enhancement will say what it can go on
wild...
so theres like, vehicle enhancements sometimes?
jaunty dawn
only recently have non character enhancements existed
though there was a couple of things where a unit became a character to take enhancements
they're gonna be more of a thing in 11e though
but like an enhancement saying infantry only has an implicit character only as well, unless otherwise stated
cause in 10e enhancements are a thing that goes on characters
rocky shale
wild...
so theres like, vehicle enhancements sometimes?
Only a couple exist
pseudo shuttle
i see i see
rocky shale
But like something might say Librarian Only
pseudo shuttle
nod nod
rocky shale
Or Terminator Character
pseudo shuttle
luckily i dont think i have to super worry about that with vanguard
from my quick skim of it anyway
jaunty dawn
Yeah a couple are phobos specific but thats about it
pseudo shuttle
im still blown away by being able to make anything have infiltrator
rocky shale
Termies already have deep strike
pseudo shuttle
right but if they have infiltrator, they can start on the board right?
rocky shale
Yeah
9" away from enemy deployment zone and any enemy model
Same as where they could deep strike basically
mental birch
Is why you see people asking, do yoy have inflitratw
When deciding to deploy first or second
pseudo shuttle
its also just the idea of a termi suit somehow managing to be stealthy thats frying me x3
jaunty dawn
I mean an infiltrating terminator will have two movement phases before the deep striking one even shows up
pseudo shuttle
...2?
pulsar holly
jaunty dawn
Cause turn one you cant deep strike and turn 2 they come in after other movement
pseudo shuttle
today i learnt you cant deepstrike on turn 1
jaunty dawn
Not saying it means infiltrating terminators is worth the opportunity cost but theyre not really the sameee
tired cairn
Though if you go second you can rapid deployment and only be one movement round behind
jaunty dawn
Oh true
pseudo shuttle
i'll be honest i have not thought this deeply about it x3
tired cairn
I think 10E is funny because sometimes going second gives you a better chance of winning
pseudo shuttle
i just thought it was funny to have stealth termies
jaunty dawn
Yeah ofc!
pseudo shuttle
genuinely the only thought i had regarding this in any useful capacity was giving infiltrator to incursors
tired cairn
It's not quite AA either because you can keep moving the same unit
jaunty dawn
Exactly
tired cairn
🤔 imagine if 40k was like Chess
jaunty dawn
Thats a little bit how warcrow works!
tired cairn
(though it seems more like Infinity's thing)
jaunty dawn
Thats a little bit how warcrow works!
Your guys get tired if you activate them too often but you alternate activating units and are able to activate the same unit multiple times per round
tired cairn
Oh, the WizKids battletech game had something like that (units would take damage and mechs would gain heat if activated multiple times in a row)
pastel rampart
Different server has a rather active Epic scene and man just look how cool this shit is.
tired cairn
I'm sad new-epic is 30k era
pastel rampart
aka the boring era
Epic is where everyone had the opportunity to bring out the big stupid toys you normally couldn't put on a 40k table. Being mostly marines, admech, and SA narrows it down too much.
pastel rampart
Bio-titans. A dozen gargants. Eldar titans winking in and out of existence.
THE GIANT CHAOS WHEEL.
junior robin
gargants my beloved
junior robin
ordinatus mars 👀
"The Ordinatus Mars was built by loyalist Mechanicum forces on Mars during the Horus Heresy in order to crack the ancient C'tan force field generator surrounding the traitor Mechanicum fortress of Castellum Jericho. " woah
broken dew
Ordinatus is the peak of vehicle design tbh
charred bridge
If someone shoots at that thing from the side it looks like it'll tip over
jaunty dawn
tbf that's not as bad as if it was turretted and firing horizontally would tip it over
junior robin
would love to be able to find all the C'tan info from before they became part of the necrons lore, since this info is from 1994
also we where robbed with the knight warden upgrade.
wonder what official tank tracks would work best for this 🤔
jaunty dawn
Its just an imperial lord of skulls
charred bridge
also we where robbed with the knight warden upgrade.
How large is that thing cause that looks like a stiff breeze could tip it over
pastel rampart
In Epic? Eeeh about the size of a grot, maybe.
charred bridge
A bunch of these side by side and someone knocks one over and it falls onto another like dominoing motorcycles that are too close together
pastel rampart
The knight warden is on a 25mm base which is the upper limit for how big Epic models got.
Titans could get bigger but the largest was at best the size of a 40k terminator.
sour sequoia
I do miss epic having any of the good factions
pseudo shuttle
...how many objective markers is it usually per game?
tired cairn
The mission will state it, but typically 5 (one in each deployment zone and 3 on the rest of the board)
pseudo shuttle
nod
so you'll , usuallu start with a minimum of 1 because its in the deployment zone?
tired cairn
Yes, but often the one in the deployment zone doesn't score
(But it's still good to have a unit that can sit on it all game)
pseudo shuttle
hmmm
good to know
im debating something plan wise
infiltrating 2 units of character led incursors onto 2 objectives during deployment
in my head, that sounds good
tired cairn
You generally don't score until round 2. So you have to be careful that you don't lose them
Infiltrators are good for countering enemy infiltrators or scouts, and making it harder for the opponenet to move up
junior robin
so like, if you took the geneseed from a thousand sons psyker and used it to make a new marine, would they 1: turn to dust 2: turn into a marine if they had latent psychic powers or 3: turn into a marine with the original TS flaw? 🤔
pseudo shuttle
You generally don't score until round 2. So you have to be careful that you don'...
as in you cant score until round 2
or your just unlikely to?
atomic apex
most objectives aren't counted until the second round
atomic apex
well, it can be
tired cairn
There are use cases, it's just not to score points
atomic apex
it does put you in a better position to keep holding the point
pseudo shuttle
hmmm
man i hate nuance (sarcasm)
so you just infiltrate
to stop other infiltration
but then if the enemy doesn't have their own infiltrators, its less helpful?
tired cairn
You can still use it to affect enemy movement
raven meteor
Well, usually infiltrating onto a point is decently useful regardless due to how phases work iirc
Enemies can only attack after they move, and they can't move onto or around Your Dudes
So even if your infiltrators are doomed to be blasted to bits you have ensured that they cannot be on the point until the movement phase of round 2 at the earliest
tired cairn
It also means the unit is further up the board, which can be good in particular if they are melee
pseudo shuttle
going about it this way feels like a very, expensive way to create dudes who just get blown up
raven meteor
It depends on the infiltrator afaik
For example in one of my first games my Eldar opponent used fairly cheap aeldari rangers to just make moving around the middle board hard early game
pseudo shuttle
space marine incursors
raven meteor
I, alas, know nothing about Space Marines,
tired cairn
Usually, because they are literally in the way
There it is possible they are a threat you don't want to get close to
pseudo shuttle
i dont think im fully following that logic
if the enemy has melee dudes, they'll be running up anyway right
and if they have shooty guys, they'll just move and shoot so you werent in the way this turn because they werent in movement range, and you wont be in the way next turn because, you yknow, got shot
tired cairn
Your infiltrators might block their units from going where they want to (especially if you then get the first turn and can move them up further).
Like, even if you kill them, they can slow you down
pseudo shuttle
...right
need to unlearn "unit dying = bad"
tired cairn
Sometimes sacrifices have to be made!
pastel rampart
so like, if you took the geneseed from a thousand sons psyker and used it to mak...
iirc if the geneseed is put into a recruit with psychic potential they can be a sorcerer.
pseudo shuttle
Sometimes sacrifices have to be made!
so put dudes on point
they'll either waste time shooting them instead of say advancing , get body blocked if they're melee dudes
as well as just by being there i stop them deepstriking onto the point? (as close)
raven meteor
Usually, because they are literally in the way
In that same Eldar fight, the other player won the game in part because they used some heavily wounded throwaway units to Literally Get In The Way Of some of my fresh Paragon Warsuits
tired cairn
It also body blocks shooty people
pastel rampart
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/p318o8/comment/h8osmxo/ Aha, yeah, either sorcerer or dust boy.
Reddit
pseudo shuttle
...body blocks shooty guys?
tired cairn
Yeah, because you either don't have infinite range or you need to get somewhere (like an objective)
raven meteor
Models physically can't move through other models
And movement occurs BEFORE the shooting phase
So the enemy can't run past you to where they need to be, they need to stop before you and then shoot you
pseudo shuttle
i see...
man looking at with this angle
now infiltrators are better than incursors
raven meteor
If you put an infiltrator in a chokepoint between two buildings, a, say
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Can't use its 10 inches of movement to push up into the middle, it has to use 3 inches of movement to get as far up as it can then blow your hapless chumps to smithereens
Or a transport containing loads of really scary infantry with the explicit purpose of getting them somewhere very fast
pseudo shuttle
gah man now i actually have to think about this
i've flipped my opinion on infiltrators Vs incurseors like 3 times today
tired cairn
They have different purposes
pseudo shuttle
incursors def seem less suited to doing this hypothetical
tired cairn
Yeah, that's part of what I mean
pseudo shuttle
on the bright side
i no longer have to pay for 2 characters with an enhancement to make this work
i can just
use infiltrators for what they're actually for
because before, i assumed it'd be better to bring intercursors because they just had better guns
raven meteor
Highly elite shitkicker infiltrators have their uses as much as chaff tarpit infiltrators
After all those elites are more likely to actually like
Hold a point after they get first jump on it
It's all about what you actually want out of infiltrate
I'm like
A supreme novice at 40k mind, but due to the host of different ways you can use all the rules my usual go-too is to pick units that I think Are Cool, understand what they're useful for, then use my inevitable excess of points to complement those strengths
pseudo shuttle
I'm like
A supreme novice at 40k mind, but due to the host of different ways you...
hey, you've got more experience than i do x3
i'll have to do a lot of homework on how to like
actually win games
raven meteor
i'll have to do a lot of homework on how to like
actually *win* games
The big thing I've learned both from my limited experience and seeking wisdom is-
Care About Objectives
Almost always angle to do your primary and secondary objectives first and kill bad dudes second
This philosophy is why the 'chaff bodyblock' approach is considered reasonable
Yes your enemy may be (killing bad dudes), but they are not (doing their primary and secondary objectives)
This is also, I am given to understanding, why the Knight factions face a lot of trouble sometimes, to give an example of this principle in action
5 invincible worldkillers is all well and good but if 3 of those worldkillers are out of position and just firing guns at ants you're done for on points
charred bridge
A random lore question, can a genestealer become a space marine? Not like a space marine got infected by a patriarch but like an aspirant is a genestealer that can pass off as human and the cult infected and infiltrated like the folks who do the genetic tests and give it a false green flag to get them with a geneseed in them
raven meteor
I can't imagine a genestealer getting under the knife by the Space Marines without them realizing 'huh I seem to be performing surgery of a xenos mutant'
soft willow
It has occurred in a canonical case.
There is a chapter in one of the Cawl books that has this as a problem
pulsar holly
Heard Perturabo finally made his move 
raven meteor
There is a chapter in one of the Cawl books that has this as a problem
Oooooh, neat
Deeply boneheaded on the Space Marine's parts, but neat
pseudo shuttle
The big thing I've learned both from my limited experience and seeking wisdom is...
so , focus on getting on point and holding points
as well as stopping the enemy from doing the same
and then after thats all done, run the numbers on what the scariest thing is, and work on removing it before it removes your own stuff?
raven meteor
Essentially, yes
Though as noted, 'removing it' can often be more nuanced than blowing it up with a huge gun
You are, however, often blowing them up with huge guns
pseudo shuttle
i then imagine each faction has its own methods of going about things, and how much it does each of these things
and then ontop of that each diffrent detachement goes about it in diffrent ways too
raven meteor
Now that is where my comprehension breaks down a bit and you should consult The Elders
Largely I only really care about playing Sisters,,
pseudo shuttle
still , its more of an idea than i had before so thank you for the input ^^
raven meteor
But yeah, like
Sisters have relatively cheap units that they also enjoy losing, as every time a unit is destroyed they get a Miracle Dice to cheat rolls with
So you spend martyrs in one place to actually win fights somewhere more tactically vital
charred bridge
It has occurred in a canonical case.
Oh what happened , what was the character's name
soft willow
The chapter is the Scythes of the Emperor
Chapter Master Thrasius is one of the main characters in that part of the narrative.|| Him and his small force of Space Marines are all depicted wearing psy dampeners to avoid connecting with the Patriarch's hive mind.||
charred bridge
Huh that's really neat
pastel rampart
They'd been infected by the genestealer's kiss and while their mental fortitude did allow them to resist it to an extent, the dampeners are what fully prevent them from being overtaken by the patriarch.
So, not quite "this is a first-gen cultist who somehow ended up a space marine."
broken dew
aren't the scythes the guys who use power scythes similar to the death guards
pastel rampart
They weren't purged because with the dampeners they were noted as being effectively fine.
pastel rampart
Why was the chapter not purged?!
About that:
A force of Scythes later accompanied Belisarius Cawl to Sotha to study the Pharos, but were beset by a force of Genestealer Cultists that had infiltrated their Chapter Serfs. During the fight Chapter Master Thrasius died slaying the same Genestealer Patriarch that had originally led the assault on Sotha. All the remaining Scythes Firstborn died with him in the battle.
vital barn
I have always been tempted to do a GSC army with five hyperadapted raveners in it modelled as GSC terminators with really fucked up Scythes armour, since there were five termies there in that book
I think it would be neat
but alas I lack the budget for a GSC army right now
pastel rampart
aren't the scythes the guys who use power scythes similar to the death guards
One of the chapters that use them, yes.
Bee Marines.
broken dew
bzzzz
vital barn
there are certainly far worse schemes out there
pastel rampart
Definitely.
Which I think my least favorite in a general sense is Silver Skulls and similarly-painted armor. It's just boltgun metal. Lacks any sort of rizz.
pulsar holly
Love me dark purple and gold Soul Drinkers chapter
pastel rampart
Soul Drinkers got that Third Street Saints drip.
pulsar holly
Hell yeah
wide veldt
Are power scythes something that has any stats
paper bluff
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/2f/ScythesEmpArt.jpg
They got half capes don't they?
paper bluff
Are power scythes something that has any stats
loyalist power sythes?
wide veldt
J mean just in general lol
tepid stratus
in 40k ig just deathshroud
Do necron war scythes count?
pastel rampart
They got half capes don't they?
Nah, full-cape, it's just tattered.
broken dew
fuck man the war scythes look so sick
i know those kind of scythes aren't actually good for fighting generally but they do just look the coolest
charred bridge
Something something chainsaw is a terrible weapon
If it's cool it'll work
I wish less things were swords, big fan of white scars for the power lancer and spears. I like the variety
Like the power mauls and thunder hammers, maybe something silly like a flail, javelins.
runic swallow
Power atlatl
charred bridge
Lizardman type weapon
runic swallow
(This is just when you chuck a power spear with a leverage stick)
God I love atlatls
raven meteor
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if power atlatls were in age of sigmar considering lizardmen are now Star Aliens
runic swallow
Do they have atlatls? I know they have darts and slingers
charred bridge
Weren't they star aliens in fantasy? Just kind of just always parked because there was no reason to space up
runic swallow
I know they definitely could manipulate the stars
raven meteor
Weren't they star aliens in fantasy? Just kind of just always parked because the...
I figured someone would say this and tried to reword several times before giving up,
In fantasy they are the creations of Aliens From The Stars
In Sigmar they are like
Aliens Made Out Of Stars
They are starlight made flesh that kick about in spaceships
charred bridge
Oh yea literal, their nap was not good for the flesh
runic swallow
I thought in End Times the toads kinda zooped them all up to the stars and they became one with the universe
So they’re now Space Lizard/Frogs
raven meteor
They are both of those things!
charred bridge
Iirc put like non slann aside from some pruests into the stargoop pool to save power and resources while traveling and would have just essentially starved in the void if not for sigmar's dragon friend finding them
And now they just conjure new full lizards from the pools onto the battlefield
thin ibex
im a big fan of power pole weapons, though they're not super portable for like... drop pods or vehicles n such
more power lucernes plz
past sphinx
newstodes metalmohawk heads are sick as hell
got my hands on a box and well
their a bit awful to build in my moronic haphazard way but their very neat and pleasantly scaled
pulsar holly
I wish less things were swords, big fan of white scars for the power lancer and ...
Think the Iron Snakes also favor using spears quite a bit
jaunty dawn
im a big fan of power pole weapons, though they're not super portable for like.....
Just need to like, have extendo powers
mental birch
main pagoda
Do necron war scythes count?
Not a power weapon
jaunty dawn
🤔 deathwatch scythe of the emperor with a necron war scythe/void scythe would kinda fuck tho
pine matrix
Alphas verses Mech?
mental birch
Yes
Alpha legion thought they ambushed mech
They are the one that was ambushed instead
pseudo shuttle
"we're going to ambush them, by pretending to be caught in an ambush where they knew we were ambushing them, but this is all part of the secret ambush plan"
hey question whats the latest good list builder?
i know battlescribe kind of fell out of favour and it got replaced by a website
i just cant remember the website name
mental birch
"we're going to ambush them, by pretending to be caught in an ambush where they ...
I stole the initiative anf blasted em
main pagoda
hey question whats the latest good list builder?
i know battlescribe kind of fe...
newrecruit is good
pseudo shuttle
newrecruit is good
....can i ask a dumb question regarding new recruit?
main pagoda
yes
pseudo shuttle
i thought they removed space marine chapter rules? and all that stuff came from bringing certain characters and what detachment you are?
so why is it asking what chapter my list is?
main pagoda
they havent?
pseudo shuttle
oh i asked here a few days ago if there was a way to play raven guard and people just told me it was detatchments and character abilities
so theres rules ontop of this that your chapter selection can give?
atomic apex
For some of them
main pagoda
^
pseudo shuttle
oh damm getting to 500 points is easier than i thought it'd be
i also did not expect to hit 500 points exact lmao
woo!
atomic apex
For some of them
IIRC it's basically if you use any chapter specific stuff, you can only use things from one chapter at a time
pseudo shuttle
so no shrike+guliman
atomic apex
And there are some chapter specific detachments for some of them too
pseudo shuttle
nod nod
atomic apex
Because Space Marines get too much stuff
pseudo shuttle
honestly this came together easier than i was expecting
only gunna have to buy 3 more kits
pseudo shuttle
if i remember right,
is it that in 10th you cant choose a specific amount of models to bring per unit?
like infiltrators are only 5 or 10
and i cant bring say, 8
main pagoda
well you can take 8 but your paying for 10
because it just does it in stages rather than PPM
sour sequoia
There is a demon inside me insisting I tell you about grav+missile centurion devastators
You could cut the infiltrators to 5 and intercessors to 5 and have one of the nastiest hammers vanguard & shadowmark can make
mental birch
There is a demon inside me insisting I tell you about grav+missile centurion dev...
Paul?
Is the demon's name Paul
sour sequoia
The demon is math for points grav+missile centurions are like the actual best shooting unit in the game into virtually any target thanks to +1 to wound oath
And vanguard fixes their movement speed issue entirely, then the -1 to hit and cover makes them obscenely tough. Gatling Despoilers deal like, three damage to the fuckers
mental birch
Hahahaah
sour sequoia
Hahahaah
Its even better in shadowmark and vanguard because you do this to the unit’s 6 twin-link +1 to wound oath of moment lascannons and 6 * d3+blast krak launchers
Everybody gangsta till six centurions wipes their 500pt terminator brick off the face of the earth from 25” away and then goes into reserves
pseudo shuttle
wait are combi weapons like
not combi+other weapons now
like its not a combi flamer thats like a bolter and a flamer at the same time?
misty violet
Yeah since the start of 10th they've just been their own separate suped up bolters rather than actually two weapon profiles
Which is a both an awfully lame ruling and ultimately probably makes running combi weapons easier and feel better to play
pseudo shuttle
i cant even workout what kit im supposed to buy to make this
rocky shale
Every combine weapon is just "combi weapon*regardless of how you build it
misty violet
i cant even workout what kit im supposed to buy to make this
Extremely annoyingly the official Reiver Lieutenant with Combi Weapon model has only ever been available as part of the Leviathan launch box for 10th, which GW isn't selling anymore
rocky shale
i cant even workout what kit im supposed to buy to make this
For the most part you just buy the box with the name of the unit on it
pseudo shuttle
but there isnt one 😔
misty violet
oh its a reiver liutenant with combi?
Yeah, he's got the Phobos keyword and some of the other Phobos special rules
pseudo shuttle
damm i'll have to kitbash then
floral herald
What are you trying to build?
pseudo shuttle
a phobos liutenant with combi weapon
but like
that guy isnt a model i can buy on his own
and also he's got a bunch of nid stuff on him which i dont super want for my guys
rocky shale
Just take like any random phobos marine and give him a fancy hat
floral herald
Yeah lieutenants are by design pretty easy to kitbash
It’s a little trickier to get a combi weapon arm on a random Phobos body but it’s not that hard
rocky shale
Take a normal bolter and just glue the combi bit to it
raven meteor
The idea of sending the stealth shock assassin space marines at Tyrannids amuses me
I get that mechanically and to an extent narratively it makes perfect sense cuz killing specific Brain Bugs helps reign in the swarm
It's just the mental image of seal team six being sent with the very important mission of killing this Horrible Beast instead of some leader dude
floral herald
It might kinda work
There’s probably fewer synapse beasts behind the front lines and that means more instinctive Tyranids which can panic
Idk though
Given “behind the front line” with Tyranids is usually just not worth going to
pseudo shuttle
luckily i'll have some infiltrators left over
i can turn one of them into a liutenant with combi weapon
just need to find a way to give him a fancy gun
pseudo shuttle
just need to find a way to give him a fancy gun
ooh i know!!
i'll use the gun in the ravenguard upgrade sprew
little bay
i have made my first warhammer 40k wrath and glory characters
one is a tech adept
with a mechanical eye replacement and replaced legs
aswell as an optical mechadendrite
and the binary chatter talent
pastel rampart
little bay
NO SANGUINIUS MOVE
jaunty dawn
so theres rules ontop of this that your chapter selection can give?
Idk why ppl answered you so confusingly??
Wahapedia and new recruit ask you your chapter as a way of filtering what detachments/characters to offer you and to enforce not being able to pick from multiple chapters
Raw you still dont choose a chapter, though it is true that with a handful of a chapters in addition to other chapters being mutually exclusive so are specific vanilla units; eg, if you take any black templars, you cannot take any librarians
This is like. Three chapters total
thin ibex
I feel like special forces behind nid lines are on a one way trip
Also on immediate topic, yeah you don't actually pick a chapter except for if you want access to specific epic heroes
Even the ones with more unique units aren't actually dedicated to being that chapter, they can be successors
pseudo shuttle
even tho if you want to do well you basically have to bring named guys so they wont really be successors grumble grumble
seriously the benefits those named raven guard guys bring is insane
brittle salmon
*even tho if you want to do well you basically have to bring named guys so they ...
you can always just counts-as, that's fine
pseudo shuttle
they'll still be special named ravenguards guys to me 😔
no amount of kitbashing and conversion can get around me having to specify that "going to charge with shrike"
like i will just have to use their actual names in play
jaunty dawn
Depending on who youre playing against really but yeah
brittle salmon
dont play imperial guard then :P
pseudo shuttle
i do find it a lil lame the named guys give seemingly required buffs to army rarther than be cool guys themselves
rght after they removed the rules for being a certain chapter
pseudo shuttle
dont play imperial guard then :P
i feel so bad for guard players
brittle salmon
its not a big deal imo
you just gotta not really care too much
name's a name to me
pseudo shuttle
why would i want to care less about a franchise i like?
brittle salmon
didn't mean it like that
people have been doing counts-as since special characters became a thing, is all
pseudo shuttle
i just find the idea of playing "my guys" fun, its charming makes the battles feel more personal
having to bring named guys just kinda takes me out of it personally
like this suddenly isnt a battle bewteen this chapter and an ork warband
its a game of 40k 10th editon
if that makes sense
jaunty dawn
I think its more like trying to not let dumb arbitrary choices on the part of the game designers get in the way of caring about the battles etc but its not really perfect
Also the last time they did this in 5e it made people hate matt ward forever
quaint compass
I getcha, especially if you've got five games in a row and all of them featuring a named character, or the same one multiple times.
But there is always the distinction between a game and a narrative innate to 40k.
pseudo shuttle
theres also the element of like
"damm this game can never be canon guliman just died"
brittle salmon
being taken out of action doesn't mean someone died
pseudo shuttle
its just a me thing 😔
jaunty dawn
To stormtalus’ point though he did mean chapters that have unique units and not just named characters
The detachments n stuff are relatively new and seem kinda overtuned just to make people stop playing the ultramarine characters
quaint compass
Let us not forget the time Be'laqor was vanquished by a fallen rock and then GW called him just a daemon prince in WD
jaunty dawn
In every case it would help if they didnt like. Constantly make named characters their own thing and not just variants of generic units
Like theres no generic lord commander on horse profile
desert jay
"Generic Space Marine Primarch" amuses me
jaunty dawn
Primarch is kinda impossible for sure
But there isnt any rules for a generic chapter master rn lol
desert jay
Yeah
jaunty dawn
I say that; the rules exist in crusade, just not in matched play anymore
pseudo shuttle
if i remember right i think? the only non character unique ravenguard unit is some sort of flying vehicle?
jaunty dawn
Im not sure raven guard gets any :(
pseudo shuttle
i swear they get some like weird gunship
like a ravenwing gunship or something like that
pseudo shuttle
yeah i guess raven guard doesnt get any then x3
this reminds me i should throw my 500 point list at some more people and get more opinions
well im at 495 but i dont think theres anything i can spend 5 points on
floral herald
"Generic Space Marine Primarch" amuses me
Guilliman’s stats make a good dreadnought chapter master if you squint
sour sequoia
if i remember right i think? the only non character unique ravenguard unit is so...
The corvus blackstar is for deathwatch & imperial agents it just has a raven guard ass name.
The bigger deal honestly is the enhancements and strats make pretty unique ranges of units useful in the detachments
sour sequoia
Iron Hands dreadnoughts and assault terminators, RG combi Lt + vanguard vets, JPIs, centurions play in a pretty unique way
pseudo shuttle
Nod nod
pseudo shuttle
Wait do you just auto score after round 2 for owning an objective?
(I'm looking into rules on how you actually win)
oh
If you get tabled.you auto lose regardless of Victory points?
quaint compass
It depends on the missions, but you generally score primary objectives starting round 2, on your command phase, often per objective you control.
In the example mission, yeah, tabling your opponent wins you the game.
pseudo shuttle
Well that's intimidating
The tabling part anyway
I imagine vanguard is an easy detachment of space marines to table
quaint compass
Close-assault units do have to risk more just to be used, but you don't have to put everything straight down the table. Its even better, so the opponent has to put their units forward to claim the center.
pseudo shuttle
Ah...risk taking
My mortal enemy lmao
I'll need to track down a battle report still.
Do you think I'll manage to find a battle report for 500 points?
floral herald
I think those coliseum games are pretty similar
500 points is uncommon because it’s very low
Mostly like learning games or the very beginning of escalation leagues
pseudo shuttle
Yeah that's kinda what I was expecting
floral herald
But people don’t play escalation leagues as much anymore
raven meteor
**oh**
If you get tabled.you auto lose regardless of Victory points?
So I got confused badly by this also-
Tabling being an auto lose is apparently only for Only War, the game mode in the basic rules document, which is from what I am told barely played
Typically tabling will more be for practical purposes a loss than de facto one
pseudo shuttle
why is this game so arcane
Everytime I try and find a rule it feels like I get slammed with a "only sometimes"
floral herald
It is pretty rare to get tabled and not lose anyway though
main pagoda
yeah while you can sometimes get a pretty good VP lead if your opponent thinks they are playing kill points its not gonna be enough in most cases
raven meteor
I think you'd need to have had an outrageous point lead and also have somehow played such you could acquire an outrageous point lead and lose tons and tons of your uits
quaint compass
Good mentality
pseudo shuttle
There's a few things I know I Wana model
Lotta eliminators
Brutalis Dreadnaught
Some jumppack guys
quaint compass
Et tu, Brutalis Dreadnought™
pseudo shuttle
It's going to be a fun conversion
oh
I also Wana do an ancient
Because I have a fun conversion idea for an ancient
I just need to find a way to make dead bodies
pastel rampart
3D prints are the way to go there.
pseudo shuttle
Wana make some dudes on poles
That's the end goal
So I guess I'll have to really lock in and learn some green stuff
No idea how that stuff works
quaint compass
Mix the two parts thoroughly
When they're an evenly distributed green, and you've gotten rid of any cured bits, its good to use
You have like an hour before it gets tougher and is hard to mix into smooth shapes, and two hours before its very hard to form shapes without tearing.
Use lubricant such as water or vaseline on your tools so they don't stick.
Its useful for filling gaps when you're starting out.
Miliput is also a decent alternative, finer grains and softer. Cures hard. Greenstuff is more rubbery when cured.
pseudo shuttle
Oh so it hardens on its own?
quaint compass
Yup
pseudo shuttle
Oh that's helpful
Should be pretty easy to make a "gored up" dead marine with green stuff right?
quaint compass
Ye
pseudo shuttle
Now I just need to buy some CSM/cultists to put on the spikes x3
quaint compass
Took an intercessor torso and stuffed the empty spaces in their limbs and neck with gs
Jammed some jewellery chain into said stumps and hooked the body to my terminator champion
pseudo shuttle
Ooh do you have a picture of that?
quaint compass
Thankyar!
pseudo shuttle
My succesors are all about things on poles
So I'm planning on piling them up on the brutalis
And then using a person on a pole for the ancient
sour sequoia
**oh**
If you get tabled.you auto lose regardless of Victory points?
I have about eight wins that occurred because I got tabled
For tourney play tabling someone and VP are disconnected except in Purge The Foe
pseudo shuttle
For tourney play tabling someone and VP are disconnected except in Purge The Foe
Mhm I'm beginning to realise that
sour sequoia
You probably won’t win while tabled outside of extremely specific armies and gameplay but I’ve def had games where I died in the right spot with sticky objectives and the only things left battle shocked the whole rest of the game
Half dozen marines wandering the wasteland shell shocked into oblivion while the dead man’s switch on every objective keeps running, absolute win for the cult
pseudo shuttle
Sticky objectives?
thin ibex
Kinda late to this as I was asleep but, in casual play you don't need to bring named guys to do well. Doing well and optimizing are two different things
sour sequoia
Sticky objectives?
A lot of battleline units in 40k or stratagems will have this ability:
floral herald
Sticky objectives?
Generic term for the variety of unit special rules which to - that yeah
sour sequoia
It lets you
A) move off an objective eventually and still score it
B) hold the objective when OC is tied between players instead of it going to nobody
Both of these are very strong utility, some of the strongest detachments in the game just give sticky to cheeky units like dirtbikes or poxwalkers
floral herald
Each unit gets their own so people call it sticky objectives instead of Shock Troopers or For the Dark Gods or like literally a dozen other names
sour sequoia
So I’ve def had games where I got tabled, but 5/5 objectives are sticky’d by now dead neophytes and the opp is battleshocking constantly and thus unable to actually count their objective-control for anybody who was able to make it to a point in time
It is extremely fucking funny and a good exercise in how GSC wins with utter dogshit stats across the board
thin ibex
I remember getting tabled and my opponent only had Centurions left, couldn't move fast enough to claim things over 2 turns
pseudo shuttle
This is good to know
Although then by the time I do this 11th will be out so maybe it'll be moot x3
quaint compass
It'll be fiiiiine
pseudo shuttle
I mean bare minimum
I'll still buy a box of eliminators and infiltrators because they look cool and fit the army
thin ibex
11th isn't going immediately radically change all the units
sour sequoia
There’s abilities that will get reworked because of the new system but its pretty specific ones I think
pseudo shuttle
Mhm. It's more for point values I imagine I'll have to change the list around
quaint compass
Ye, but points don't stay still as it is now
pseudo shuttle
Mhm mhm
That's why I'm not suuuper super worried about it
.god I need to work out how to paint the eliminator cloak
floral herald
Whoa these are sick
main pagoda
new old, plastic version of old kit
tired cairn
Sometimes the tactical rocks for jump troops can be a bit silly. But I do like them over the plastic rods
tardy vault
It's very "pick your poison"
But the rock flight stand is vastly preferably to the clear plastic
tardy vault
New Custodes stuff?
30k got a bunch of updated Custodes stuff which looks really good
But it's 30k so it's legality in 40k is unfortunately suspect
So unless you're a 30k player buyer beware. If you are a 30k player enjoy the sick sculpts.
charred bridge
Whoa these are sick
Whoa did Custodes have flying units before?
raven meteor
Whoa did Custodes have flying units before?
Tese are an old unit, tey just ave new models
tired cairn
They were 30k units that you could use in 40k
vital barn
yeah, the old resin ones were also neat but these are much better executed
I'm considering getting five of the new custodes just to ally to my Mechanicum
raven meteor
Old ones
tired cairn
And because the 40k custodes range is relatively small, it is much more common to see 30k/Imperial armory units used in custodes list than in other armies where they are available
(partly because traditionally they are much more expensive, though GW has also been moving away from moving the two lines for some bizarre reason)
thin ibex
Whoa these are sick
New model for the pistol and buckler guys?
tired cairn
For the Custodes jump troops, yeah
Huh, do they no longer have two handed bolters?
Or is that other picture pistol + shield and I just can't tell because resolution
raven meteor
It is pistol + sield
Te foremost one is just oldin te pistol in two ands
jaunty dawn
Has he got a holy hand melta bomb
floral herald
you call melta bombs a martial ka’tah?
atomic apex
there's probably a dedicated form for it
tired cairn
It blows up on round 3. Neither round 4 nor round 2. Round 5 is right out
charred bridge
> you call melta bombs a martial ka’tah?
I know that reference
tired cairn
https://youtu.be/jf_CHQcOIXg?si=uLKdSsqffRj5mSAI
Tl;dw sounds like the terrain types will be collapsed. And it will primarily be footprints that matter. I am unsure if LOS otherwise matters
The objectives are particular shapes (and generally not circles).
New tournament layouts released this week. So that's neat. And GW is trying to convince others tournaments to use their layouts
Every faction will be able to access every force disposition
floral herald
The return of the king area terrain rules
pastel rampart
Roaring back from the days of 4e.
tired cairn
10th was kind of that. It's just that the only areas that mattered were ruins
rocky shale
Footprints are a good way to go
It's the easiest way to handle the differences between terrain pieces you might have available
tired cairn
Hopefully it doesn't result like that era of warmachine where all the terrain was flat pieces of cardstock
main pagoda
that'll never happen GW makes too much money off terrain
jaunty dawn
Nah its pretty much already laser cut L shapes
sour sequoia
fwiw I’m probably the hardest tourney player in here and that shit’s really Only At Tourneys since its the logistical issue of affording 100 tables of terrain
Every store game is painted terrain
soft willow
Even Adepticon had some plexiglass Ls on tables and they’re serious about painting and making the tables as cool as possible.
rocky shale
My LGS has a bunch of painted resin, gw, and mdf terrain in all sorts of shapes and then a set of grey plastic 3d printed stuff for the GW terrain layouts
Though someone is slowly painting the grey stuff
Most people prefer the printed pieces just because they make setup easy and balanced
tired cairn
One of my game stores had that preprinted foam?board terrain. Which was kind of neat
sour sequoia
The other part is like. If the footprints stay consistent over the edition I guarantee you people will use them
The competitive terrain layouts, footprints, # of footprints changed yearly in 10th, trying to do nice terrain sets like that is just a shotgun blast to your wallet and enjoyment and free time
jaunty dawn
I think my lgs is just bad lol
main pagoda
sad they got rid of the plastic game boards
was always fun to walk into the gw store and see the manager at his wits ends painting a like 12" x 12" chunk of terrian
desert jay
GW probably could've picked an easier architectural style to build terrain in, in retrospect
Instead of a cathedral crossed with an industrial plant
thin ibex
I do feel like there's a lot of guff about terrain in 10th and it not being like... thematic or varied, which is valid, but also I think terrain play might be one of 10th's bigger wins
That being said i really do like putting infantry in and fighting from buildings, which isn't really a thing outside is casuals
pastel rampart
One of the most memorable moments from this game occurred when one of the players used the power of the Pythagoraum theorem to figure out the 480″ range of his Titan could hit an enemy Titan three rows away and eight tables down!
mental birch
It's the easiest way to handle the differences between terrain pieces you might ...
people are gonna complain tables looking like warmachine 2e
jaunty dawn
So the blood angels in new edition box theyre not blood angel models right
Idk if theyve said anything explicitly
But its not dark vengeance
desert jay
The last time the SM in the edition starter set weren't generic that you could paint however was 6e's Dark Imperium Vengeance in 2012
desert jay
Nah I mean this guy even has a unique look compared to standard Helbrutes
Different chest panel and head, I can't tell how much of the posing difference is unique though
Different feet too
Actually I think it's a fully different sculpt, not just some modified bits
pulsar cairn
he looks short and thats kinda cute
jaunty dawn
Yeah it was before the multipose helbrute came out
Iirc hes also awkwardly smaller
Though much better posed imo
I think he is just a different sculpt upon which a multipart kit was designed yeah, its kinda from the transistional era
Of digital vs physical
Whereas like monopose redemptor vs multipart redemptor are the same 3d files on different sprues
floral herald
Yeah they’re not gonna put much in the way of specific chapter marks in starter boxes any more I think
jaunty dawn
I was mostly certain
Especially since there arent even full codices for the angels etc anymore
pastel rampart
Oh by the time that dude came out it was all digital, they just made the weird decision to make him monopose and then 2 years later release the actual multipart kit.
I get why of course, he's easier to assemble and that's what you want out of a starter, but he just looks...idk a little better.
thin ibex
arent most starter kits monopose?
side question, did they ever come out with a individual box for suppressors or have they been relegated to starter box rarity
floral herald
I thought suppressors had a weird combo box
pastel rampart
Most are monopose, though 3rd ed was a weird outlier in that it was just the normal plastic sets.
mental birch
side question, did they ever come out with a individual box for suppressors or h...
Combo box w3irdnees becquse of the sprues
jaunty dawn
They were in the spearhead for a bit
And a getting started for a different bit
But yeah no individual box
junior robin
another week with no rumour engine 
paper bluff
What's funny with the new models is that they still haven't listed them in the Imperial Armory category of the app
wide veldt
JAMES WORKSHOP
GIVE ME PETER TURBO MODEL NOW
soft willow
Five chaos primarchs and only two loyalists? What would Space Marine players think?
soft willow
Nah, only Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus are dead dead on the loyalist side.
All the rest have some kind of "out" for their disappearance or death.
But you are correct, they aren't sick ass demons.
main pagoda
corax would like a word
soft willow
We don't know that Corax is a sick ass demon, it just seems really likely.
main pagoda
even if he isnt one physically hes one mentally and thats good enough for me
soft willow
Are we sure he's not just really angy about the heresy still?
main pagoda
well he has been trying to murder kill lorgar for 10k years
which in fairness justified
wide veldt
We don't know that Corax is a sick ass demon, it just seems really likely.
That would suck so bad if hes not actually a horrifying bird demon
upper canopy
He's gonna be a guy with some birds around him and a big shadow aura
if he does get a model
upper canopy
I just want Leman Russ to be the Cleric Beast
main pagoda
yeah he went into the eye with the 13th GC
broken dew
didn't he go to look for a magic fruit to rez Big E or smthn
soft willow
In 211.M31[12] Russ, at a great feast with his Legion in attendance, stood and said: "In the end I will return. For the final battle. For the Wolf Time." He then left the Fang and embarked into the Eye of Terror accompanied by his personal retinue bar one — Bjorn the Fell-Handed, who remained on Fenris in the role of Great Wolf. The tale of his disappearance is retold every thousand years by Bjorn, now the oldest dreadnought alive. Every once in a while, the Space Wolves embark on what is called the Great Hunt to search the Galaxy for their missing leader. Though they have searched far and wide, they still haven't found any sign of their Primarch.[Conflicting Sources] Many within the Space Wolves believe that Russ has sought out the Tree of Life to restore the Emperor to health.[16] Apparently, the Wolf Primarch's arch-nemesis Magnus knows the Wolf King's whereabouts, but keeps it secret.
wide veldt
Kinda love the idea of the primarchs coming back really fucked up and guilly just being like
Sigh
I guess
soft willow
I mean we're basically 2 for 2 on that.
With big E leaving them some gubbins about it.
charred bridge
well he has been trying to murder kill lorgar for 10k years
charred bridge
I mean we're basically 2 for 2 on that.
If Dorn ever comes back itd probably be a massacre to the imperium until probably gman tells him to calm down
soft willow
He'll start just wailing on some BT crusaders.
upper canopy
I do also hope they do not make that shit canon
wide veldt
Ough why
upper canopy
of Lorgar hiding from Corax
upper canopy
Yeah but when's that stopped GW
pastel rampart
They rarely hard retcon stuff, it's mostly soft retcons or just never bringing it up again and leaving the canon status of a thing up in the air.
vital barn
The Lorgar/Corax short story is right after the Scouring
by all accounts Lorgar was not long-term hindered and is now out and about doing heretical stuff
wide veldt
Okay but its really funny to imagine that is true AND hes also still being chased by the bird all the time
soft willow
He probably just has an entire cult devoted to a sorcery that keeps Corax away from him.
wide veldt
That and i like Corvus so i hope they dont just go “eh he lost”
junior robin
now I can't stop imagining scarecrow-themed Word bearers...
wide veldt
LMAOOO
pastel rampart
by all accounts Lorgar was not long-term hindered and is now out and about doing...
He was just chilling in his tower for almost 10,000 years.
Though with time being an afterthought in the warp it could've been a lot less, subjectively speaking.
wide veldt
Yeah i hope at the bare minimum like
Corvus is significantly inconviencing him still
vital barn
I am fully on Team Lorgar here, Lorgar deserves to be incredibly juiced at this point
wide veldt
Imagine it was such warp fuckery that lorgar just like
Hid out in his tower for a day
Came out
Everyone is talking about how hes a huge bitch
vital barn
Lorgar already did "being bullied by Corax" at the start of his 30k arc at Istvaan, when he was a scrub
pastel rampart
Lorgar is still a scrub, he's just got Phenominal Cosmic Power to compensate for his lack of physical prowess.
vital barn
repeating all those plot beats for 10k years entirely for loyalist hype kind of defeats the point of him is a character, as the guy who only came into his own as an evil dark lord rather than as a military commander
wide veldt
I mean
I hate to say it homeskillet but if he comes back as a cool dark lord
Its gonna be to lose to a loyalist for hype
Gillman is gonna like…. Punch his balls off
pastel rampart
We're 3 for 3 on that.
wide veldt
Do the Primarchs have balls
vital barn
Lorgar has the benefit that his actual story arc is dependent on him being a whiny, emotional child who eventually grows up and gets his shit together by becoming evil, which means that they actually thought about it for a bit when writing his books rather than just keeping him as a whiny emotional child for the whole thing like most of the other Primarchs
Lorgar never wins a duel other than the one time he threw Fulgrim across a room and is running an almost undefeated agenda anyway, that's the point of him
charred bridge
He probably just has an entire cult devoted to a sorcery that keeps Corax away f...
The cult gets the primarch sized cup to put Corax outside of Lorgar's purview then when they return with it Corax is gone
vital barn
his one significant loss is when he tried to coup Horus before Terra and got owned
charred bridge
Lorgar has the benefit that his actual story arc is dependent on him being a whi...
Problematic child who grew up to be a problematic adult and decided to turn his passion of being problematic into a career. Also worship
He's up there with Curze and Angron as top primarchs in terms of writing to me, are they just objectively terrible people yes but their backstory has a lot of interesting juice on why that is
jaunty dawn
Lorgar should come back as a werewolf with actually cool looking wulfen and his emperor’s item of power should be the emperor’s collar
I meant leman
Obv
charred bridge
Return of Russ happened because another legion called something Wolf and he's here to erase that
pine matrix
Sending my intergalactic mail to Hive Primus, Armageddon, Armageddon, Armageddon
wide veldt
God wait fuck no
I just realized no
Theyre gonna bring back peter turbo just for dorn
For dorn to come back with his one handed ass
In a big damn hero moment
pastel rampart
It's a match-up that makes the most sense.
wide veldt
Nooo
NOOOOO
MY SON PETER GET OUT OF THERE DUDE
HE HAS HIS DEMONIC AIRPODS IN
HE CANT HEAR ME
pine matrix
Turns out Dorn never died, he's just been chilling with a hook for a hand
wide veldt
Clearly hes gonna put one of Ferrus Manus’s hands on
wide veldt
God thatd be so fucking dumb
jaunty dawn
Dorn should get the emperor’s assault rifle
wide veldt
Man him putting on ferrus manus’s hand might actually make me okay with him not being dead
jaunty dawn
Its just a gold plated ak47 he got in 20th century
wide veldt
As a sidenote do you ever find yourself really invested in a random character for like
Legitmately 0 reason
soft willow
I mean yeah? Why do you think I stan Dorn?
pastel rampart
If we're keeping with "each of the loyalist primarch gets one of dad's things" it'll be like, a fucking golden gauntlet from Emp's armor.
Altough since it's Dorn it'll probably be Emp's bolter.
soft willow
If we're keeping with "each of the loyalist primarch gets one of dad's things" i...
Gotta keep mimicking Dad's drip.
wide veldt
Altough since it's Dorn it'll probably be Emp's bolter.
He rips off the Emperors hand
And fuses it to his wrist
Hand of Vecna style
pastel rampart
Pings, people.
wide veldt
👍
But yeah emperor hand
Fuck i cant tell if i think thats gonna somehow happen or not
jaunty dawn
Khan could so easily come back just to get the emperor’s jetbike
Who am I kidding he wouldnt get a bike (ignore that they finally made a white scar on bike character)
wide veldt
The khan get’s dads harley
soft willow
So the theme so far is that they're given the thing that they lack. Gulliman gets a sword to remind him to act, Lion the shield to remind him what he's meant to do as a Knight.
So what could you give the others that they're missing?
soft willow
Nah, he'll get the Emperor's copy of "Empathy for Dummies" with half the pages missing just like when Big E found it.
wide veldt
Just a big sign that says “dont decapitate our spies”
Its like the only thing i know about dorn that doesn’t relate to peter and its just
Its so funnt
charred bridge
For dorn to come back with his one handed ass
Dorn has less 1 hand while Peter turbo got like half dozen extra
upper canopy
PETER SWEEP
charred bridge
Khan could so easily come back just to get the emperor’s jetbike
Khan is my favorite primarch but I would not want him to come back to a real degree because that means someone could write some fuckass lore about what he does now
Just let him retire as guy who was goated, roasted others, and left on a high note
wide veldt
Yknow what would also be funny is jf dorn came back and peter was uust like
Yknow what man
Im leaving
I did the iron cage to you im satisfied actually
soft willow
Petey leaving well enough alone?
soft willow
He'll lose his fortress idea because Dorn shows back up and he abandons all sense of reason to chase his rival.
charred bridge
Im leaving
I've never seen Dorn and Perterabo in the same room despite them looking for each other. The reason why dorn's body was never found is he's normal jekyll and hyding with Peter turbo without either realizing
wide veldt
I would vomit
Yeah i love peter but like literally every chaos primarch he is incapable of learning his lesson
Its kinda The Deal
charred bridge
If they learned their lesson they probably wouldnt want to stick with chaos
finite compass
I really really really fucking hope they're not bringing Dorn back
Guilliman I can roll with
Bringing back every primarch is a fucking mistake
past sphinx
For dorn to come back with his one handed ass
AND WHO HAS ONE HAND?
THATS RIGHT
YARRICK
DORN IN DISGUISE
finite compass
upper canopy
Bringing back every primarch is a fucking mistake
They are most definitely bringing everyone back
finite compass
Siiiighs I know. That doesn't mean I can't be salty about it.
upper canopy
As far as I am concerned Sanguinius and Horus are also likely to return
upper canopy
Sanguinar digivolve to Sanguinius
finite compass
That'd be like if Star Wars randomly decided to bring back Palpatine with no preamble.
...wait
Fuck.
upper canopy
NO ONES EVER REALLY GONE SIDHE
pine matrix
Somehow, Ferrus Manus has returned
charred bridge
DORN IN DISGUISE
Is Yarrick taking a seat in front of Pertabo?
Wait what's this?
Yarrick drops one hand to the ground and removes his face to reveal Dorn then Ferrus Manus's hand grows from the stump
IT'S ROGAL DORN WITH A STEEL HAND!
tired cairn
They can get Sanguinis back as a definitely-not-a-demon collective hallucination/manifestation of the Blood Angels rage
idk about Horus
pastel rampart
Another clone, maybe.
tired cairn
lol
pastel rampart
Wouldn't be the same obviously since Horus's soul was utterly obliterated but it'd be funny to have one running around just to piss Abaddon off.
tired cairn
Horus returns as a full squad of models because they are all incomplete clones (due to aforementioned soul obliteration)
pastel rampart
And by incomplete we mean they're all just like, one part of him.
Horus 1 is a hand, Horus 2 is a foot, etc.
upper canopy
The Emperors memory fragments of the final battle split off and are shoved into a clone body of him
Bam
Horus is back
Sanguinar turns into Sanguinius
Ferrus Mannus clone
Its all gonna happen
broken dew
Sanguinar turns into Sanguinius
wouldn't they combine the Sanguinor with whatever black rage spirit is inside Mephiston
do a yin yang fusion dance thing
tired cairn
Horus 1 is a hand, Horus 2 is a foot, etc.
They can combine like Exodia for one turn
charred bridge
Another clone, maybe.
Fabis Bile/Trazyn be like, I gotchu which primarch you want? I got mint condition 30k and M28 too
wide veldt
I legitmately think ferrus manus isnt coming back tho
charred bridge
Ferrus Mannus clone
Inb4 Ferrus Mannus growing back from like a droplet of his hand that was left untouched and somehow that grey goop had the entirety of Ferrus Mannus's consciousness in it, and now he's a discount Perpetual
wide veldt
Please god dont try to make him into a real character
Its WAY funnier if, alongside all the other crazy ass primarchs, big E also just made a guy with metal hands
tired cairn
Maybe he's never a real character, but his hand just starts mysteriously showing up in narratively important places
pastel rampart
Ferrus Manus isn't coming back but he can come back through the power of GW fiat (and also the HH books having two instances of him coming back, sorta)
charred bridge
Its WAY funnier if, alongside all the other crazy ass primarchs, big E also just...
The Iron Hands being named before they knew Ferrus Mannus had an iron hand
pastel rampart
I think I've talked about it before but the viability of truly dead primarchs returning is very, very low; mostly because I don't think GW wants to do that because it does ruin the overall narrative weight of some founding legions just never getting their dad back.
charred bridge
Isnt it a coincidence how we're called Thousand Sons long before Magnus did the ritual and now there's only a Thousand of us Sons
Emps: dont think about it
tired cairn
I think I've talked about it before but the viability of truly dead primarchs re...
On one hand yes, but on the other, selling models...
wide veldt
The Iron Hands being named before they knew Ferrus Mannus had an iron hand
Holy shit
Ive never thought
About that
charred bridge
Some could say Emps had a bit of foresight
tired cairn
The Emperor did make a deal with the chaos gods at some point. Maybe this is part of the reason those things line up so nicely
wide veldt
They just see FM on the street and go ITS HIM THATS OUR GUY
charred bridge
The Emperor did make a deal with the chaos gods at some point. Maybe this is par...
I just assumed its cause Emps can just see futures
tired cairn
Really didn't seem to help him that much
charred bridge
Really didn't seem to help him that much
Well seeing all the futures helps but isnt surefire when you don't know which will happen
pastel rampart
Russ, Dorn, Vulkan, Corax, Khan, and Alpharius/Omegon all have some means of returning for one reason or another:
- Russ is out doing whatever in the Eye of Terror and not confirmed dead
- Dorn only lost his hand, his body never found, so he's likely to return
- Vulkan no-clipped somewhere and is having to slam F5 on his keyboard to respawn
- Corax is currently trying to flush Lorgar down a toilet
- Khan is doing sick donuts in the webway so he'll probably show up
- Was it really Alpharius that Dorn killed? Maybe it wasn't him, maybe it wasn't even Omegon, who knooooows
wide veldt
Acthaually horus was so cool and strong he clouded emperors sight
charred bridge
He has a excerpt in a book with a Custodes who asks if Emps can see futures and is like stupid intelligent then why does he fail or is uncertain
floral herald
Well seeing all the futures helps but isnt surefire when you don't know which wi...
Esp during the siege since among other things fate broke
wide veldt
Wait is Vulkan not really dead
wide veldt
King please return it would be so fucking cool to have two (2) imperial - HES A WHAT
tired cairn
The Emperor's fatal flaw is he didn't have time travel like Oriken to make his preferred vision true
pastel rampart
WOW you're out of the loop huh
charred bridge
Esp during the siege since among other things fate broke
Also that, but leading up to the siege too the things like "why didnt emps treat X primarch better" if he knew it could end up bad
wide veldt
ON VULKAN I GUESS
i know what a perpetual is to be clear
I just didnt know Vulkan was??? How????
pastel rampart
His perpetualness was lore-dropped in one of the HH books like, fuckin' I dunno a decade ago probably.
tired cairn
Do they still talk about perpetuals in modern lore or do they quietly ignore that bit?
charred bridge
The Emperor's fatal flaw is he didn't have time travel like Oriken to make his p...
Irony of how Orikan is actually a trash diviner but excellent time traveler
broken dew
The Emperor's fatal flaw is he didn't have time travel like Oriken to make his p...
i mean Orikan has time travel and Trazyn kept beating his ass in court despite this
wide veldt
Do they still talk about perpetuals in modern lore or do they quietly ignore tha...
They are still mentioned
charred bridge
His perpetualness was lore-dropped in one of the HH books like, fuckin' I dunno ...
Several times, Curze had a time killing Vulkan like dozens of times and Vulkan just respawned
Including like atomization via nuke
broken dew
bro has infinite retries and he still lost because he didn't bother to read up on law properly
wide veldt
Yeah huh despite liking the salamanders quite a bit i did not know any of that
charred bridge
ALthough not all perpetuals seem to respawn cause Emps had like a couple perpetual buddies and when they were killed they died, they were moreso like immortal as in they don't age or get sick
wide veldt
Maybe ine day…. The salamanders will get their own codex…. When vulkan returns
tired cairn
Vulkan hasn't respawned because all his deaths greatly increased the timer
charred bridge
Vulkan hasn't respawned because all his deaths greatly increased the timer
He's still in the gulag fist fighting the Beast /s
broken dew
was the war of the beast the one that put him on the big timer
cause iirc in that he tackled The Beast into the waaagh engine of the Temple Gargant
which is a crazy kinda death
wide veldt
Oh thats actually kinda recent for a primarch to have been actually doing stuff
Salamanders goated like that i guess
pastel rampart
Russ, Dorn, Vulkan, Corax, Khan, and Alpharius/Omegon all have some means of ret...
For the actual-dead primarchs there's avenues but very unlikely for a variety of reasons, but for the sake of completion:
- Sanguinius's body is still there, pristine as the day he died. His spirit is...somewhere. Possibly one of those angels, maybe as a collective consciousness in every blood angel. Shove it back into his body and there you go.
- Curze supposedly died to an assassin but importantly the video for it cut off, and the assassin who did it was hunted down and killed by the night lords. He could've faked it for all we know.
- Ferrus Manus showed up when Emps had to defend the webway under the golden throne as a flaming spirit; he also showed up in The Death and the End because of time shenanigans. Either one is a way for him to return.
- Horus clone shows up. Dude's soul got turned into space kibble so it wouldn't be the true Horus by any means unless there's some Magnus-style shards at play that allow for some aspect of him to show up which uh...kind of unlikely.
These are, again, highly unlikely to happen--I think GW might be sticking with these guys being dead-dead--but there are lore reasons for it.
broken dew
flaming spirit you say?
charred bridge
Supposedly Sanguinius did speak to Dante in a vision. Also is Dante's plot armor that keeps him alive (against Dante's wishes to die)
broken dew
pastel rampart
How much is actually Sangy speaking and not just a near-death delusion is up in the air.
charred bridge
And iirc sanguin possessed Dante like the emps did to gman but to a lesser extent
pastel rampart
If Sangy decides to stay as some force ghost that exists to make Dante suffer I'm kind of okay with that.
charred bridge
Something something the best leaders are the ones who don't want to lead
Dante is definitely that
broken dew
Dante wants the sweet release of death as i understand it
bro does not even want to live let alone be leading a whole chapter
pastel rampart
Mood tbh
charred bridge
Tbf he is the oldest blood angel currently and has seen like everyone die or succumb to the black rage
runic swallow
For the actual-dead primarchs there's avenues but very unlikely for a variety of...
I’m pretty sure a lot of Night Lords saw her with Kurz’s head, but also I recall it was never recovered so who knows
broken dew
i still can't believe that the Lamenters were one of the the only chapters not to show up to Baal
charred bridge
Pretty much if Dante knows your name and you're a blood angel you're going to die horrifically in a way that causes Dante more trauma
Except that one Blood Angel chad that's like a sanguinius clone
pastel rampart
I’m pretty sure a lot of Night Lords saw her with Kurz’s head, but also I recall...
Curze's head grew legs and scampered off like that scene in The Thing.
charred bridge
The one with the speak
runic swallow
Curze's head grew legs and scampered off like that scene in The Thing.
No, clearly it grew bat wings
pastel rampart
charred bridge
Curze's head grew legs and scampered off like that scene in The Thing.
Curzed flayed so much he became immune to flaying and just pretended to be dead
pastel rampart
M'Shen 5 minutes after a successful strike:
charred bridge
Or better yet, Curze said his mother's name Martha (lie) and which was the assassin's mom's name (idk how she remembered her old personal life) and let him go
wide veldt
Sorry wanna mention from earlier
Did not know sanguinius’s body hasnt decayed
Anyway more than anything tbh he cant come back because his legion’s identity is SO wrapped up
In him being dead as fuck
runic swallow
https://tenor.com/view/the-thing-kidding-gif-19672605
Also fun fact, Carpenter was very upset the TV edit cut that line because he (rightly) felt it was an important moment of levity to balance out the scene. He also really hated that the tv edit changes the ending to be incredibly dark and unambiguous by just cutting in additional footage of the dog after the end to make it look like the thing got away
charred bridge
Like what would happen to the black rage if sanguinius came back
runic swallow
Which like, yeah, I get that, I’d hate seeing that happen to my movie
wide veldt
Like what would happen to the black rage if sanguinius came back
Would be really funny if it kept happening tho
charred bridge
Imagine if for some reason black rage persisted and a blood angel like attacked Sanguinius thinking he was Horus
broken dew
Sanguinius comes back and he gets the black rage as well
broken dew
i mean, i'm sure he gave it his best shot but i don't think he had any chance of winning
floral herald
It was a real fight for a bit but Horus was sandbagging and trying to convince him to switch teams and then he used Chaos Domain Expansion and teleported through 8 dimensions behind Sanguinius and beat his ass
broken dew
i mean yeah he was kinda juicing on chaos sauce
floral herald
Yeah full chaos juice Horus was substantially stronger than the Emperor but less wiley