Warhammer and Such

[wide veldt]

Not a huge deal

[desert jay]

We are all weighed down by the sins of the past

[atomic apex]

it does preclude a lot of more major changes

[floral herald]

Both methods for bringing stuff into a new edition suck

[wide veldt]

I mostly think the cheering part of the thing is funny because of Poorhammer

[raven meteor]

Apparently objectives are now officially represented by models on te map and not little hockey pucks so that's neat

[wide veldt]

Who responded with “oh yeah you’re cheering that you still get to use Tau Codex you dense fuck”

[floral herald]

I member the bad old days when armies just didn't get a codex for 2 editions

[wide veldt]

Yeah that’s not great

[atomic apex]

I liked the circular objectives tbh

[wide veldt]

I mean based on what they showed it mostly seems like it’s just gonna end up being objectives are square now

[raven meteor]

Well, the IDEAL is that they are still using Tau Codex until New Tau Codex comes out right,

[broken dew]

Bricky ln his stream mentioned that he was gonna debut some objective markers on his site for someone and he needed to contact them about it lol

[desert jay]

Yeah the "so uh... does anyone want 6"+40mm coasters?" has been darkly amusing

[wide veldt]

Right but the idea is like

[raven meteor]

As opposed to usin Fuck All until ten,

[wide veldt]

Well

The idea would be to use the index

And that it would be better

[jaunty dawn]

Im kinda surprised that the reception of terrain footprint objectives is so positive given like it leans even harder into prescribed terrain I feel like

[raven meteor]

Admittedly I don't actually know enough warhammer terminology to know what an Index is vs a Codex

[jaunty dawn]

Which is a mixed thing

Really

[atomic apex]

L shaped ruins are eternal

[jaunty dawn]

Basically the difference between 8e and 10e launch vs 9e and 11e launch is that the former were essentially new games

While the latter are further developments of the preceding one

[desert jay]

Codex is your faction gets own book, Index is your faction gets (a decade or so ago) an subsection in Index: Space Marines/Imperium/Chaos/Xenos or (10e) just a PDF

[sour sequoia]

have you played thru the end of an edition before lmao

this is like, literally the healthiest it's been

ever

[desert jay]

That's right Space Marines got a full book at edition launch and the rest of the Imperium was crammed into a second book

[jaunty dawn]

But the thing is a lot of the problems with 10e are the fact its a new game that had to be made in like 2 years

[wide veldt]

Okay

[broken dew]

no bias there

[sour sequoia]

my name tzeentch daemons armywide 2++ rerollable.

Big Win For Flavor

[jaunty dawn]

But at the same time a lot of the problems with 9e were because it was a power creep bloated thing from being developed progressively

[wide veldt]

Like

I don’t know how describe that I’m not saying that it’ll suck

[desert jay]

Technically the 8e books were Index: Imperium I and Index: Imperium II but you can guess what the split is

[jaunty dawn]

The ideal is that for the next 3 years the quality stays the same or improves instead of being incredibly rocky until it claws its way to a better state just in time for a new edition

[wide veldt]

Just, A: point out that it does have potential flaws as an approach
And b: saying something funny about it that more knowledgeable people than me said

If I need to have a degree in Warhammer to comment on current events in the hobby let me know

[sour sequoia]

came off harsher than I meant to, my apologies

[floral herald]

A lot of previous edition ends have been pretty clowny is I think the unspoken part

[sour sequoia]

I've been sitting through LGS grognards who didn't play 10th anyways sit and bitch that it's tourney QoLs and not a Real Edition or Real Warhammer and like... they weren't gonna play anyways lmao

[floral herald]

Like near the end of 9e when space marines got early access to 10e free wargear and fucked everything up

[sour sequoia]

I think everybody worried is freaking out about nothing

[wide veldt]

What

Thats insane

[jaunty dawn]

Imperial guard got it firstttt

[sour sequoia]

CYAN is not stressing the important part.

Rhinos were wargear and dedicated didn't have to start with people embarked

[floral herald]

Oh shit right yeah

[wide veldt]

I mean I feel like that’s unfair to say that everyone with concerns is unfounded

[sour sequoia]

you would rock up and lose games to solid walls of rhinos

[floral herald]

Yeah they just ran the most insane vet squads because the units were the same but the wargear was now free so everyone got thammers

[wide veldt]

You are actually making the point that you should be worried

[floral herald]

Wait did that also happen in 9e?

[wide veldt]

Because GW has proven before that they can’t do edition transitions lmao

[floral herald]

I thought that was the Gladius Strike Force incident

[sour sequoia]

9e was tzeentch daemons and Armor Of Contempt Always On

[jaunty dawn]

Oh no one has anything but concerns tbh

[wide veldt]

I mean I’m….. hopeful

[sour sequoia]

I have endless piles of concerns but its sort of like fearing pianos falling from the sky it'll happen or it'll never happen

[jaunty dawn]

Its just that the edition not being a hard reset doesnt increase the overall amount of concerns

[floral herald]

This one is shaping up pretty well they just need to pick a random unit and smash their points through the floor for inscrutable reasons

[wide veldt]

About the “focusing on integrating narrative” stuff

Like that’s:… something

That I like

We’ll see if it’s real

[sour sequoia]

the fact they're listening to people who don't play the game anyways about Integrating Narrative means no ends of complications for people who wanna actually play the damn game

you have always been able to crusade or Your Dudes

[floral herald]

(I think that happened to Plasma Inceptors for like 2 weeks near the end of 9e)

[wide veldt]

Okay

[sour sequoia]

but the missions thing is about to fuck the tourney scene/teams as a format

[wide veldt]

I dont think we’re gonna see eye to eye at all then Gyrtop

[sour sequoia]

and like, how are we gonna afford terrain if they need to be full on GW productions, it'll go back to the rexxers MDF everybody screams about out of economic necessity

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like thats already that case lmao

[sour sequoia]

and the narrative players will still be on their 1 game per 6 months they were getting anyways

[floral herald]

My read of the integrating narrative is that it's kind of about broader lore stuff. They've had a lot of narrative campaigns all of a sudden after kind of a lore drought in 10e

[wide veldt]

Have they said they’re going to make it a requirement that everyone brings full GW quality terrain

Also not gonna lie you’re kinda being an asshole about people who don’t play the same as you not being real players

Just to be blunt

The tournament scene is not the only people that everything is for

[sour sequoia]

Oh for sure

[floral herald]

Yeah this conversation is importing a lot of weird background I'm not a fan of

[sour sequoia]

Fair enough I'm on like three swings and three misses here, I'll bail

[wide veldt]

But yeah idk about the objectives thing but like

The concept of more narrative integration is cool!

I would love to see more like, flashy flavor pulls

Also maybe uh…. Maybe a different way for the tau’s army rule to work

Please

That one is entirely personal lmao

[raven meteor]

I've heard such dreadful doompostin about Tau from someone I know who is obssessed with Tau
It frightens me,

[pale narwhal]

Either we can’t counter the lone op in ruins and get absolutely shafted by melee armies or we can and guiding stays the same and we’re busted as hell

Or we’re very mediocre and get hit with multiple incidental nerfs targeted at broken things other armies can do far better than us

[vital barn]

Also happened in 7th, SM had a formation with free transports so there were just walls of free lascannon/plasma gun razorbacks everywhere. The only competitive Admech list was such because it got all wargear free and thus deployed fully loaded 145pt Dunecrawlers for 90pts each and three free 30pt plasma LMGs on every skittle squad. Downside was that it was limited to one of every unit and was as such incredibly boring and monobuild.

[spice flicker]

Is the detachment that lets your bring khorne daemons actually good for world eaters? Trying to decide between going normal world eaters or mixed for a crusade force. Yes this is in the same crusade where a friend is trying to run a blood angels successor as 40k loyalist world eaters as well.

[jaunty dawn]

My assumption is that the terrain visibility changes are meant to be alongside lessening the amount of terrain needed to play tbh

Idk if they said anything about that

But I feel like thats the main reason to mess with it?

[jaunty dawn]

Do they get to use crusade stuff?

[spice flicker]

Honestly cant recall if the daemons do or not, havent looked at WE crusade stuff in a while tbh.

[jaunty dawn]

I was trying to check but waha was not cooperating

[spice flicker]

Nope daemons dont benefit from world eaters crusade and dont even get xp so scrapping that idea.

[jaunty dawn]

Shame :(

[atomic apex]

same for all the dedicated Chaos factions I believe

I know for TSons demons don't get to do any cult stuff either

[spice flicker]

Just checked and same for death guard and EC.

[upper canopy]

Usually you only can really afford a big unit of troop daemons

So it depends on if your line up would do good with "relative chaff infantry"

[wide veldt]

That’s something I would like actually if daemons were more integrated into CSM and its subfactions

[upper canopy]

Monkeys paw as the Daemons faction is destroyed

[floral herald]

Honestly I'd take that trade I think

[wide veldt]

Stop stop I can only agree so much

[raven meteor]

Emperor's Children + Slaanesh demons with no weird downsides.........

[floral herald]

It's an old bugbear but the 5e design of codex chaos daemons was weird to me

I like the concept of them representing all daemons extraodinary joint god ops

But I don't like them having range crossover with fantasy

Since it basically made them

• melee guys
• faster melee guys
• stinky tough melee guys
• shooter wizards
• Soul Grinder

[wide veldt]

I kinda don’t care I just think they mostly make sense in 40k as like

Being alongside their respective CAM

*CSM

[floral herald]

Which worked ok for Warhammer Fantasy (which they were designed to work for both) since that's a game of melee guys but made them kinda monotask in 40k

And I want fucked up gunhaver daemons

[wide veldt]

Also the fact that they’re like

4 armies

That absolutely there are not the resources to actually make there be 4 armies worth of rules/units for

[floral herald]

They're strictly not but yeah trying to make mono-god viable makes em weird

I do like their weird "better in range than in melee" saves and all-deep--strike stuff

It made them really interesting for my orks to fight back when they were new

[past sphinx]

Mr. Turbo has offical art of his demon form now

tracks

one might even say its plain

[floral herald]

I like this guy he's all stripes

[bright dove]

I hope we get an official Honsou from this. 😛

[desert jay]

And making it worse... except for Tzeentch, I think they actually have way less ranged stuff than the average Old World or AOS army, and even including Tzeentch 15%-ish(?) isn't a lot

[charred bridge]

He could be more top heavy

[floral herald]

In their defense this was like 2009

And they totally ran the meta in WHFB

Albeit this was, iirc, largely because they kept their oops all deep strike stuff in a rank n flank melee wargame

[desert jay]

Have there even been many Daemons AOS releases?

[floral herald]

Yes but a lot of them are characters iirc

They're pretty well supported in AoS but it helps that they're more firmly stapled onto their corresponding mortals

[desert jay]

Yeah and then the cult legions getting daemons included was kinda half-assed in comparison

[vital barn]

honestly these two draw the eye surprisingly quickly considering the giant fucking demon primarch

Captain Stripes and someone who manages to make a full face sallet look exasperated

"damn, this is a shit way to die, I haven't even gotten to lascannon anyone yet"

[past sphinx]

agreed he could have bigger boobs

[floral herald]

Yeah it's kinda cool to put him as a looming background and that "centerpiece" is very good

[sour sequoia]

its fine hastarii got that dog in em

[charred bridge]

Oi not boob they're augmented chests

Theres like a daemon in each

[past sphinx]

big ol bara bitties filled with bemons

[vital barn]

the Hastarii art is really neat though, I love the fact we finally have Skitarii Heavy Mob given that they alternate between six foot six slabs of metal and spindly little fellows in the books

[thin ibex]

Do iron warriors eschew sorcerers or are they integrated into their structure?

[tranquil ivy]

i drew my female chaos astartes blorbo (Kulve) and im, like, super proud of this head

[wide veldt]

Lmao I was looking at IW warbands and saw the Bitter Sons

And was like “wow that name fucking rules what’s their deal”

Yeah they’re uh

They’re the guys that were there when Guilleman woke up

There are no more Bitter Sons

[wide veldt]

There’s nothing on the wiki saying they don’t use them

[thin ibex]

Man id be more jazzed about chaos crusading if the ultimate goal wasn't daemonhood

[runic swallow]

They do use them but generally less in a cackling madman who loves his job way and more “get in the fucking artillery shell you little bastard, I hate you”

Though it depends on who’s writing them

[thin ibex]

Cause I crusade as iron warriors, I don't think my chaos lords ambition is to become a daemon prince

[floral herald]

The difference between these 2 is the amount of cackling

[thin ibex]

If i*

[runic swallow]

And the amount of cutting off mutated bits of yourself to replace with cybernetics

[floral herald]

Being a prince is still pretty useful - you’re immortal, more powerful, usually psychic

[thin ibex]

I kinda figured Iron Warriors look at a sorcerer the same way they look at a tool, like like a gun. Keep em on a tight leash, deploy them for a tactical purpose

Caus they'd see reliance on sorcery like a crutch otherwise

[runic swallow]

Well, they also are the guys making a ton of the demon engines

So it’s more them using demons as a resource than as a object of worship

(Again, depends on who’s writing)

[thin ibex]

True, I guess it's a thematic thing, none of it is to being glory to the dark gods, it's about glory to the warband, to the lord himself. The gods are a tool, at least in his view, even ultimately he's the tool to the gods

[runic swallow]

Or as artillery shell payloads, which is just so amusing. Plucking a minor demon from the warp just to shove it in a bottle, put it in a shell, and then just have it go nuts with anger sitting in an ammo dump for however long until it’s used

[thin ibex]

They're big "sorcerery and the demonic are fickle, unreliable tools, though occasionally powerful. The truest of tools is cold logic and tested iron.

[little bay]

damn that skitarri is going to either have a very good fight

or be instantly crushed

[pale narwhal]

"fuck it we ball, fuck it we ball, omnissiah willing we ball"

[broken dew]

just noticed the people in the foreground of that art, Peter looking like a fucking kaiju damn

[pseudo shuttle]

fetch me the sacred oils, we must invoke the canticles of balling

[mental birch]

Twin lance nerfdd

Is still fine but gonna be rubbing it in people's fsces

[pseudo shuttle]

Oh was there a balance thing today?

[pale narwhal]

Nerfed how? Points, rules?

[pine matrix]

https://youtu.be/59NORGNnWlQ
Get your tickets now!

||It's so funny how goofy the space marine costumes look||

[broken dew]

TRAZYN THE INFINITE!?

no way they're giving my favourite kleptomaniac a song about all the things he's stolen

[pulsar cairn]

i almost forgot what day it was

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm
national misinformation day x3

[pastel rampart]

Look I'd buy tickets for this

[pine matrix]

Genuinely think you could get together a Trazyn costume that looked good but was easier for the actor to move in, not sure about space marines

Do some warhorse style puppetry to make them 8ft tall

[jaunty dawn]

I think they're all cosplays

saw one suggestion that it was done at adepticon

[marsh tree]

I WISH IT WAS REAL

[pine matrix]

Ohhh that'd make sense

[junior robin]

finally, something worth getting a warhammer+ subscription

[pseudo shuttle]

man i cant find a good like
woodland/forrest base guide anywhere

i knew basing was gunna be a nightmare but it is so hard to find specific...biomes? of bases i guess

[floral herald]

Basing is I think easier than guides suggest

It’s just like

Only the complicated stuff gets much of a guide or something?

[tardy vault]

Basing is as hard as you make it as well

[floral herald]

Yeah you can just put down basing glue and goblin green flock and it’ll go great enough

[tardy vault]

I do a super simple desert base setup for my snakes, but I've seen videos that do way more.

[tardy vault]

Yeah, flock plus a painted rim and no one is going to be upset.

If you want to get fancy, get some little grass tufts and stuck em on it as well

Done

[pseudo shuttle]

its hard in the sense of working out what i want to do yknow?
working out what works with the actual colour of the army
whats within my ability to do
how affordble doing it that way is

mainly that 2nd one

i could throw just, some grass on there but that doesnt sound like it'd be super...satisfying visually?

[pastel rampart]

A super secret tip for more basing variety: tea. Just plain ol' goddamn tea leaves.

[pseudo shuttle]

ooh?

[pastel rampart]

Yup.

[pseudo shuttle]

elaborate?

[floral herald]

The contents of tea bags makes pretty good leaf litter looking flock

[pastel rampart]

What I do is actually make the tea, drain the water out of the bag(s) and then let it sit out for a day or two to dry out. This leeches out any potential flavors/smells/whatever and makes it safe to glue down.

[jaunty dawn]

variety is basically what makes good bases imo

[pseudo shuttle]

wouldnt they like

rot?

[jaunty dawn]

like leaf litter and some rocks or twigs

[pastel rampart]

The type of tea will determine the color too of course--mint/peppermint tea has a subdued green color, rooibus is a nice reddish-brown color that's perfect for old clumps of dead tree leaves.

[pastel rampart]

So would saw dust and yet it makes up the majority of flock you can buy.

[pseudo shuttle]

i suppose
hm

this is good to know thank you

[pastel rampart]

After you glue it down, go over with a 50/50 mix of white glue or mod podge and water to seal it in. This keeps it from flaking off and helps prevent rot (which is unlikely in the grand scheme of things but y'know).

[floral herald]

Dry glued down stuff will last a really long time unless the models are like stored in really damp conditions

[pastel rampart]

also: birch seed pods are great leaf material

[broken dew]

storing all my models in a bathtub filled with water

[pastel rampart]

https://www.seacoastonline.com/gcdn/presto/2022/01/24/NPOH/d1b783be-88f2-4e54-aecd-c949224b9ff7-gray_birch_bracts_and_nutlets.jpg

Around fall time, go walk around the woods or the park or whatever and grab birch seed pods. Infinite leaf material there.

You can even tint them with paint or colored inks for more visual variety.

I made a big batch years ago by putting paint in a container, shaking the crap out of it, and then letting it dry.

[raven meteor]

The warlord titan is very thirsty okay

[pseudo shuttle]

now i just need to workout the other like
80% of how to base this

[broken dew]

leaving all of my models in the bathtub like they're some kind of ancient salvage that has been perfectly preserved by the salt waters of the ocean and if i remove them from the salty depths they will simply disintegrate

[pseudo shuttle]

life was easier when i thought using a white base was a good idea

[floral herald]

My generic advice is keep basing relatively simple

You’ll be doing it dozens of times so don’t make it really hard

[pseudo shuttle]

....question

white base on white mini bad

white mini on, light blue base also bad?

[floral herald]

It’d probably work they just shouldn’t outright match

[jaunty dawn]

you want a warm white

[floral herald]

It’s also a good rule of thumb for the base to be darker or simpler than the mini

[pseudo shuttle]

....hmm

[jaunty dawn]

if the white on the model is blue, then blue or also blue-white base won't have hue contrast

blue white model and blue blue base will have saturation contrast though

but warm white model and blue blue base will have hue contrast and saturation contrast

[pseudo shuttle]

what about a blue like this

on a white 80% and black 20% mini

[sour sequoia]

That’d go hard

[pseudo shuttle]

oh thank god i can follow a guide again

[jaunty dawn]

in a nutshell it means there's benefits to shading the mini with brown (which also is nice weathering) than with blue But apothecary white style with the blue shading might look cleaner (cause it's not also weathering)

so it's a trade off

honestly the best way though is just to try it

worse case scenario is you have to pick up some stripping solution

[pseudo shuttle]

i mean even if it isnt the most
artistically sensible i'll be happy with it

[jaunty dawn]

that's the most important thing at the end of the day

[pseudo shuttle]

it'll be my funny guys on a base that looks like the planet my funny guys are from

[jaunty dawn]

you want models that look like your vision and not like every other simple tutorial with vapourwave grass

[pseudo shuttle]

oh quick question

from my understanding

you do not base, then attach mini right?

[jaunty dawn]

you can

um

[floral herald]

You can do it in either order

[pseudo shuttle]

you can?
i thought it;d mess with the mini being glued to the base?

[floral herald]

What makes more sense varies on the basing method

[jaunty dawn]

it can but there's ways to get around that basically

and it's really nice to be able to paint the base without the mini in the way

but it's also fine to just glue the mini to the base, prime, then base afterwards

which works nicely with the gw painting handles which are quite convenient

[pseudo shuttle]

i was planning on priming both the mini and the base at the same time because it uses the same spray

[jaunty dawn]

yeah :)

[pseudo shuttle]

so glue the mini to base
apply the base ...material? techincal paint? whatever
then spray both

[floral herald]

I pretty much always base last

[jaunty dawn]

if you want the texture paint to be sprayed yes

ie if you just want the texture and not the colour it has in the pot

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm
i want the texture of the agrellan texture paints
but in white

[jaunty dawn]

yeah : )

[pseudo shuttle]

yknow in hindsight i could have probbbaly posted the guide im refering to couldnt i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcEkKVcuTyE

my theory is that its
blue enough to not blend in too much with the white armour

well my hope not my theory lol

[rocky shale]

New knight detachments

IK 6+++ 🤮

[sour sequoia]

ITS BACK

BREAK THE FUCKING GLASS GET ME THE FULL HOST OF ASCENSION

https://tenor.com/view/housefullofdynamite-defcon-defcon2-gif-11757814495192521569

[rocky shale]

It doesn't become 5+++ at least

The strats are fairly tame

[jaunty dawn]

I love that CK ability

super interesting

also I feel like the ik detach is like a weird meta commentary ahha

"these are the knights of legends!" gives them back an infamous ability

[rocky shale]

The entire detachment is like finally a reason to not just play triple despoiler

Merciless fusillade being "give 3 models sus1" is pretty crazy but it prevents split fire and there's only so many things you can shoot 2 dogs and a big knight at where its even reasonable to do so

The move through walls for war dogs is finally in a detachment where you bring a lot of war dogs

And the D6 surge move is absurd but sure I guess

[tired cairn]

Didn't they have to get rid of that from the codex detachment? Lol

It's funny to me that the chaos Knight detachment is kind of giving them the original way bondsman worked back

[tired cairn]

Man, when did that happen? I thought all dogs all the time was standard for most of 10th

[rocky shale]

That was only precodex

The codex made bigs good

[tired cairn]

Oh, I really didn't keep up then lol

[sour sequoia]

3x full gat despoiler’s basically been the way since

Woe, 108 shots of S8 AP-2 D2 lethal or sus on demand

[tepid stratus]

It's brutal to roll into

It's basically only stopped by t12 because otherwise it's enough shots it can fish for 5s and kill most targets

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gK6-B-wPRA

[dense sedge]

If you had to build an edition starter box without imperial space marines but also had to make something that would sell what would you put in? I’d say krieg and chaos marines

[pine matrix]

Dark Eldar Vs Leagues of Votann

Wait you said sell well

[floral herald]

Chaos space marines and Eldar

[dense sedge]

Yeah that’s the other best option
Csm replacing marines feels like a way to keep marine fans without continually doing the same

[floral herald]

Nothing so fancy for me, those are just sellers 2 and 3 afaik

[jaunty dawn]

Iron Warriors vs cult mech

But the iron warriors are a soft reboot of the pre primaris space marine line

And they have basilisks

And then the cult mech have 2x20 techno zombies

The other thing I can think of is a like a Relaunch box where they go to 6 year editions and three years in theres like a new launch box sized and monopose etc release

[upper bluff]

Yeah honestly launch boxes sell so well it's surprising they don't do multiple an edition

The idea of a mid edition box that supports two armies with major releases could do well

[jaunty dawn]

They have done smaller scale versions of that

And shadowspear was monopose even

Though uh

That was sm vs csm in an edition that started with sm vs csm (deathguard) pfff

[upper bluff]

Lmao yeah probably not that

But like a Krieg Vs. Aeldar box this edition would have fucked

Two armies that got major model updates that aren't space marines

And people might be willing to start a new army if they're splitting the cost with someone else

That's basically why the launch boxes do so well

[spice flicker]

Would focusing on tempestus scions and kasrkin be a good way of emulating the Black Hand subfaction of the Brotherhood of Nod from Command and Conquer Tiberium Wars? Also would it be better to do the Brotherhood of Nod as "traitor" guard or CSM?

[past sphinx]

the blood angels

sons of baalin'

[pastel rampart]

Count-as void grenades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6zqHKd265E

[pulsar holly]

Man, I had to mute someone I can occasionally have good talks with in another server because they will not stop pushing the rumors swirling around AoS's next edition as concrete fact. (And they're coming from a very biased position since prior to getting into the Skavens for AoS, they really REALLY hated AoS, and damn near every time I was gushing about the game's lore would come into chat to say something negative or start a dogpile on me with other folks who were bitter about Fantasy's End Time)

[past sphinx]

while i really dont care for aos at all god i hate people who screech about it even more

most of them werent even alive for old world

or didnt play it

and definetly didnt go buy the new old world stuff

[pulsar holly]

Yeah, near as I can tell they don't really care much for the new stuff. And I can't even talk about the new Old World ttrpg without them downing on it because "I already know how the setting ends." M'am....the ttrpg takes place several centuries before the period leading into End Time, I'm pretty sure you can get away with doing neat stuff in this period. Especially since it's a time period in Old World that doesn't have a lot of lore covering it.

[pastel rampart]

End Times was 12 years ago people gotta get over it already.

I say this as someone who was pretty fuckin' pissed over it and like, dawg it's over.

[pulsar holly]

People are utterly convinced because to them AoS seems to be losing steam, that GW is going to give it a Battleworld treatment and combine all the realms. And for some reason also struggle to imagine what the setting of AoS is like because it's separated into several realms x-x Which I have a hard time figuring out because like -gestures at DnD's multiverse, Marvel's Multi-verse, DC's multiple Earth's-

[pastel rampart]

TOW exists. 9th Age exists. WHFRP has like 5 editions to pick from. Utterly spoiled for choices but can't let it go.

[pulsar holly]

-looks up 9th Age- Sweet Jeebus, this looks almost the same as WF

[pastel rampart]

It's legally distinct WHFB, created after End Times when people were super salty.

If none of those scratch the itch there's Kings of War, Age of Fantasy: Ranked, or any other number of rank n' flank games out there that you could proxy models with.

[broken dew]

playing the Rogue Trader crpg is really fun but i need to stop fucking around cause i keep finding out

decided that boarding a derelict ship was a good idea and now i'm ||fighting a Forgefiend||

mfw reaping is so fun but sowing is The Horrors™

[bright dove]

If only people had been able to put all that passion about Warhammer Fantasy into buying things so the game wouldn't die. /hj

[main pagoda]

idm people still being pissed at the end times but it does kinda hinge on two things

1: you were actually alive and played WHFB bonus points if you were an army that got squatted
2: you dont use it as a point against modern AoS, the hate was justified in 1e that was also a long long time ago

[pastel rampart]

I think the anti-AOS thing reached its peak for me when a guy burned his entire Dark Elf army in his back yard.

That's a level of overkill and overdramatic that's just kind of...sad.

[main pagoda]

i was there for 1e AoS i get it but its been a long ass time and the world and game has come along way from the mess it was

[pastel rampart]

Yeah

There are people bashing AoS acting like it's still 1e and uh. It's not.

[upper canopy]

I was a Bretonnia fan

I am allowed to be upset about End Times still

[pastel rampart]

I started with Beastmen so I just got constantly screwed over well before End Times.

[main pagoda]

and to come back to the earlier topic of AoS being dying or smth its the 2nd most popular wargame on and would be number 1 if its older brother didn't exist

[pastel rampart]

yeah like, any AoS rumors aren't worth a pot to piss in unless and until we see actual photos (rules, miniatures, whatever)

[main pagoda]

you could realyl just say any wargame rumors

[upper canopy]

I mean i also will say

Yes its incredibly valid to not be invested in a setting when you know definitively that it ends like shit

I think people not wanting to get into Game of Thrones is valid

[main pagoda]

true but then you can just play TOW in that case, and i know like 75% of the people are people coming over from TWW and seeing the morbillion "fuck the end times fuck GW" videos

[upper canopy]

I mean that doeant address the point, whats the point of anything in TOW?

[main pagoda]

you get to play fantasy?

[upper canopy]

Yes but whats the point of doing big battles in TOW when I know whats going to happen already

[pastel rampart]

Why play historicals when we know what happens?

[main pagoda]

why play 30k you know what happens i dont really see the point your making

[upper canopy]

My point is that pushing the timeline back doesnt do anything to ease the nilhistic sting of knowing how Warhammer ends

[runic swallow]

It’s clearly a ritual to try and get enough people playing the battle of Waterloo and focusing on it hard enough to cause reality itself to shift and rewrite so napoleon wins

[upper canopy]

In 30k you can effect small bits of the setting but in Fantasy you kinda just can't

I know the Empire isnt actually in peril, I know Bretonnia will all die off screen, and I know the Skaven will just eventually win

That knowledge makes getting invested in the setting significantly more difficult

[main pagoda]

i mean you entirely can hence the campaign books which let you play out these previously forgotten conflicts and battles

[jaunty dawn]

Wait how is 30k different

Or how can you not affect small parts of fantasy

[upper canopy]

There's a significantly less defined setting by virtue of scale

[jaunty dawn]

Right

[upper canopy]

But the small scale of Fantasy is like

a town?

That's kinda all you can really have as stakes

and when you're doing big epic battles having that be the highest you can go just feels lackluster

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like thats kinda a problem before the end times

[upper canopy]

Well without a definitive ending you could have that be the stakes

You can threaten an Imperial Province with a WAAAGH because it's an ongoing story

[main pagoda]

ngl i just dont really get the issue, if you want to play something with stakes you can pick any of the flashpoints or just make it up. What does the end times matter its what 200 years away

[vital barn]

I'm with Voy on this one honestly, 30k and 40k are big enough that you can grab your own corner of the setting and write what you like, plus the world hasn't literally ended

My 30k boys could easily have some kind of setting impact that actually stuck around after the end of the war, Old World not so much because it's known that everything you could possibly do will be zeroed out.

I have no particular beef with AoS other than that when I played it the game and lore felt considerably less flavourful than the models

competently designed, but still kind of Extruded GW Wargame for my cool skellingtons

[upper canopy]

I LIKE AoS at this point

But I also think that End Times was the worst series of decisions GW's ever made

[vital barn]

Metaplot strikes again

[upper canopy]

It's metaplot that's written to just be like

profoundly spiteful

[vital barn]

We should cross the streams of bad metaplot and set the Ebon Dragon on the Skaven, he'd like them immensely

[upper canopy]

He would adore them

[vital barn]

Hmm, Skaven 3cd

will ponder this

[upper canopy]

Greirat, the Chittering Multitude

[vital barn]

I do like the AoS wood elves, I fought them a few times in a path to glory league and they had fun skirmisher stuff going on

[upper canopy]

I like AoS ogres and giants

I do think Orruks are a little lame

[pulsar holly]

I pointed out that one of the sources of the rumors had contradicted himself several times, so then I was told "Well it's coming from multiple sources now"

[vital barn]

I picked Ossiarchs, which weren't bad but were a bit too bland for my liking

Performed well, but I think my particular kind of mechanics brain requires a few more moving parts

[upper canopy]

i just miss Bretonnia man

[runic swallow]

I miss tomb kings

[jaunty dawn]

The funny thing about sylvaneth is that theyre not elves but some of them (a lot of them) are cosplaying elves

[upper canopy]

saddest predator clasp

[runic swallow]

I got into them a lil bit and then “sorry, they’re gone now”

[vital barn]

I have exactly three Bret knights somewhere that are my sole WHF models, I have absolutely no idea where they came from because I never played it

[jaunty dawn]

Its a funny reversal of the dynamic between elves and spirits in fantasy vs aos

[pulsar holly]

If I ever can afford the minis (right now the only Wargame I'm looking to actually play because affordable, is Trench Crusade) I'm torn as fuck between the Ossiarch Bonereapers, and the Hellsmiths of Hashut

https://tenor.com/view/hecksmiths-hoh-helsmiths-of-hashut-hashut-helsmiths-gif-5331462044856454111

[jaunty dawn]

Partially thats a depiction bias thing though cause the alarielle elves have only underworld models

[main pagoda]

Chaos dwarves are a faction I love to see would hate to paint. So much fire

[past sphinx]

love AoS's models but ill be honest the lore is absolutely impenetrable to me

[main pagoda]

Just do the ol' reliable

[pulsar holly]

Pick a realm and focus in on it, work your way out from there.

[main pagoda]

Gortrek series

[past sphinx]

the realm system is just poison to my brain

[main pagoda]

You don't understand AoS well neither does he

[past sphinx]

hated it in iron kingdom, cant get my mouth round it in aos

[jaunty dawn]

Its like minecraft

The important thing is spiders are spaceships

[pulsar holly]

I love how the Realm of Beasts is just the food chain on a macro scale, like you can go to sleep in a forests on the slopes beneath a mountain...wake up the next morning to find another mountain slowly chewing its way into the other. Or building a town on a hill only to find it moving a month later, and devouring whatever is in front of it. Or of course building settlements on top of titanic beasts. Its no wonder the Orruks love that realm.

[past sphinx]

its all very

fae

[main pagoda]

It's weird

I like it but it's weird

[past sphinx]

but not in a crunchy weird way

in a wibbly weird way

[pulsar holly]

I love it being wibbly weird

And Nagash made it even weirder after the Soulquake incident.

[main pagoda]

I'm just at the point where I don't even try to understand it I'm just here to see where my boy goes next

[past sphinx]

all this stems from the deep tragedy of me being a wizard hater

[pulsar holly]

And unsurprisingly, Morathi fucked things up for everyone and herself, because she just could not leave things well alone.

[still warren]

She got some dope wings out of it though

[main pagoda]

Yeah well it's morathi

[runic swallow]

Historical wargaming is a way to many games people call… affordable

[main pagoda]

Literally the omni shambles

[runic swallow]

Seriously historical wargaming is real cheap

[pulsar holly]

True, but I will not give her any credit for that. I will always take any moment to diss on Morathi.

[runic swallow]

Especially at smaller scales, 15mm is a delightful scale

[jaunty dawn]

Morathi is wild

[pulsar holly]

Morathi is petty and dumb as a brick, which makes her both frustrating and entertaining to watch.

[jaunty dawn]

She does all the everything

[main pagoda]

Morathi is just kind of hoes mad even thousands of years and a whole new universe after the fact

And normally I'd respect that but fuck me you can't be mad and then just fail upwards

[pulsar holly]

I will never forget the time that she for some reason thought she could try seducing Nagash during a meeting between Sigmar and the other "friendly" deities, and Nagash responded by slapping her hard enough that he knocked her into her serpentine form.

[upper canopy]

The realms are easy for me

Its just dnd

[pulsar holly]

Like for fuck sake Morathi, its Nagash. The only thing Nagash loves is himself cough and Sigmar cough

[bright dove]

Yeah, the realms are just realms.

[upper canopy]

Theyre elemental planes

[bright dove]

It's like planets, except with just an extra little bit of weirdness if you want the less magical version. 😛

[runic swallow]

The realms are kinda just discrete adventure zones

Think metal album covers tbh

[pulsar holly]

I had to explain to someone how even though Aqshy is the realm of Fire, and tends to lean hot...that it still has bodies of water, and something akin to arctic and sub-arctic regions.

Its just uhh....weird

-shrug-

[runic swallow]

Who cares about the specific geological and meteorological features tbh, it’s a metal album cover fire realm

It’s not trying to be realistic, so kinda don’t worry about it

The lake is there because it reflects the exploding volcano real good

[pulsar holly]

And the Realm of Beasts is what I said earlier. Shyish, the Realm of Death, still has living civilizations within the realm, and Afterlives exist within bubbles scattered throughout Shyish. There's just now a big ass swirling hole in part of the realm that isn't draining magic from the other realms as much as it was before, and is slowly (ever so slowly) spreading.

[pulsar holly]

There's also now a whole part of Aqshy that's Skaven flavored

[main pagoda]

I think my favourite AoS thing I have read was court of the blind king just an fantastic faction based book

[floral herald]

The element of RATS

[runic swallow]

The rats do as they please-want

[pulsar holly]

The Flesh-Eater Courts are pretty neat. They're also totally Bretonnians

[upper canopy]

Soulbound helps a ton

To get into the setting

[past sphinx]

i want to do 8mm or 15mm wargames they look fun to paint and play! but everybody around here who does them is old as balls and i tihnk only communicates via pigeon

[pulsar holly]

If only I could get friends to play that ttrpg

[bright dove]

The Realm of Life just has a lot of stuff that wants to grow.

[runic swallow]

Hey they can be fun to play with

Depending on the person, but the old timers can be a lot of fun once they see you’re interested in their stuff

[main pagoda]

Yeah it's a very different type of wargaming community but great once you're in there

[runic swallow]

The kind of guys who can be a bit grumpy but will also give you their custom rules for the Napoleonic Wars or Punic Wars for free

[main pagoda]

It's like beer hammer

[upper canopy]

Really funny thing happened when we went to our LGS

[runic swallow]

Also since it’s not locked to one brand, historical minis can be real cheap

[upper canopy]

Me and my roommate whos trans were talking with some guys and this old dude playing Eldar asked them what faction they wanna play

And they said "oh, sisters, or dark eldar", and the guy said

"Well you are a girl so usually youre going either one."

And I asked them after like "was that insulting or affirming?" And they said "honestly? Kinda affirming."

[past sphinx]

sisters deldar or nids

every time

[runic swallow]

But yeah, honestly if you’re interested in historical stuff and there’s the people who play them at your FLGS, they’re probably gonna be happy to see someone who’s interested and able to do a demo

[past sphinx]

women love the bugs

[runic swallow]

Someone edit that “you may fascinate a woman with a piece of cheese” thing to “with a tyranid”

[pastel rampart]

Orks are also up there.

[pale narwhal]

Sometimes multiple of those options

[floral herald]

My fiancée plays ynnari but close enough I guess haha

[thin ibex]

Hope for ynnari in 11th lol

[floral herald]

They gotta do some new shit with this faction mechanically

The whole “you can’t take epic heroes except for these few mandatory ones” bites

[desert jay]

Yeah you can't even SKIP the epic heroes entirely

[desert jay]

Yvraine and Yncarne are consummate micromanagers, I guess

[desert jay]

This is just dealing with the fact that W is wider at the top and R is wider at the bottom

If you did a rectangle bounding box around the logo both bottom corners would be out of the border

[valid brook]

Kerning is My Passion

[mental birch]

tau and trans girls though

ahhaha

Me

probably the mecha and trans girls crossover

[charred bridge]

I am part of the stereotype, sisters is one army I like the vibes of cause even though they got sick gear they're still just human and sometimes faith so hard magic happens

Although if I were ever to get an army it'd probably be Orks because I like rolling lots of dice and RNG the closest I can get to skaven in 40k. If I wanted an army just for display it'd be Necrons.

[jaunty dawn]

I started with tyranids and then picked up sisters when they were updated haha

I tried to pick them up before that with proxies too

but ran it to the problem of being a kid with no money pff

[deft crest]

I'm late to this but. CREDIT :@tempura_person

[broken dew]

very cute

[deft crest]

Vashtorr is cute in all forms.

Truely a model i legit wanna get but not really use

[broken dew]

Vashtorr is pretty cool

[sour sequoia]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/95fucn12/building-an-army-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

Some more news about the new ed

Looks like confirmation of a KT style, “here is the army’s narrative mission” for missions and secondaries

Leaders get two different types and now everybody can double attach instead of the weird bespoke way they do it. Leaders can go solo, supports have to attach

[rocky shale]

There was a 5x5 grid table that leaked for primary. You just read it based off the combos.

[pulsar cairn]

is the skull thing for special units or just a style choice?

i mean the ones with yellow helmets and skull masks

[sour sequoia]

Yeah so it looks like mission types go based on the combination of the two armies which is kinda neat

[sour sequoia]

Death company stuff usually

[rocky shale]

It's neat though I wonder if it might get stale if you're playing the same match up a lot

[pulsar cairn]

right thank u

[sour sequoia]

Anything will get stale eventually but I don’t know even that many comp players who enjoy the form of secondaries right now

[rocky shale]

If you have multiple options from multiple detachments iI suppose you can choose different ones

True

[jaunty dawn]

Nah theyre just reivers

They have skull masks

To be scary

[rocky shale]

Seems neat

[jaunty dawn]

Cause thats their job is to be scary

[rocky shale]

Enhancements for non character units is huge

We had those with the new corsair detachments so I'm glad it's gonna be a whole thing

[jaunty dawn]

Affecting multiple units is cool

Gonna be a way to do veteran detachments etc I figure

[tired cairn]

That explains why the enhancement limit is higher

I don't think I like the implication that detachments are more likely to be narrowly focused on certain units

That's the opposite direction I wanted things to do

[rocky shale]

It looks like there's potential for narrow and broad ones

1-3 pts essentially

[tired cairn]

1k point games only giving 2 detachment points is a bit weird then

Yeah, but I'd still prefer if it was narrow detachments that weren't unit locked I guess

I'm a bit skeptical of the new mission system. At the very least, I think you should pick force disposition at game time to increase mission variety?

I assume every AdMech detachment will get the priority assets tag

[vital barn]

The new edition introduces the Upgrade tag on some Enhancements, which means they can be applied to up to three non-Character units while only counting as a single choice – though you will need to pay their points costs individually. GW getting asymptotically close to actually pricing wargear options without actually doing it

[rocky shale]

I like it

They already have done it in a couple newer detatchments

[tired cairn]

The closest you get right now is the unit split based on primary weapon system some units see

[jaunty dawn]

If an upgrade isnt represented by a model option then it can be whatever

[main pagoda]

its just a normal reiver helmet and the yellow just means they are assualt/vanguard

[mental birch]

I think its just from Maelstorm

[mental birch]

Might be a way to softban certain army types from 1k

Say knightd

[tired cairn]

Maybe. I get the impression it's based on genericness. So hopefully it doesn't prevent them for silly reasons lol

[pulsar holly]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Cyjh-DEm-po?feature=share

[pseudo shuttle]

so question
what are some ways to attach a mini to a base
After you've painted the base/mini

because in my mind the paint/texture would mess with the connection but i was told thats not the case

[pastel rampart]

If you're attaching the mini after painting/texturing the base--that is, sand and flock and such--then it's going to attach to that rather than the base. At that point you'd want to pin the model so that the pin goes through the base.

[broken dew]

pin time

[pastel rampart]

If you're putting the model onto a base that just has paint and nothing else, just lightly scrape under the food and the base to remove any paint and glue it on.

[pseudo shuttle]

hmmm

oh shit my names still upside down

so , would it be easier to attache to the base then paint because pinning sounds like it'd be a nightmare

and scraping i wouldnt wana mess up the look of the base

[broken dew]

pinning ain't so bad

[pastel rampart]

Pinning is a necessary skill to learn eventually but also like, you can just glue the model down and then start adding sand and flock.

[pseudo shuttle]

the basing guide im using doesnt use flock or sand luckily

just texture paints and washs

[misty violet]

What's the change?

[dense siren]

Red corsairs and iron warriors have their own categories

[floral herald]

Help help we’re being loyalist space marined

[misty violet]

Ahhhhhh, I figured that was what it was but I had a moment of wondering if Daemons had been removed and then re-added

[sour sequoia]

Getting a lil bit of inside baseball from the TO conference that’s likely getting disseminated next few days:

• there’s like 16 footprints for terrain + its not all squares,
• terrain types are back, at least pipes are lol
• secondary scoring will be determined kinda like scourge of ghyran AoS stuff, you choose a disposition and rack of objectives off that. All armies should have access to all types.

[floral herald]

This all sounds promising

[tranquil ivy]

beginning work on my Dusk Wyrms Spartan

wish me luck chat, this model was expensive as shit

[rocky shale]

Right after I printed a whole table of l ruins lol

[sour sequoia]

MDF. Tell me it was MDF.

There will still be ruins

[desert jay]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/z4ippqsy/eye-of-terror-detachments-knights-and-warp-portals-galore/

Also an Eye of Terror detachment article

... Is the Knight one a return of the index detachment?

[floral herald]

Ngl I like the way these primaris fists look

[sour sequoia]

It isn’t really, since its strats are tame and it cannot upgrade to a 5+++ ever

But god do I hate it anyways lol

[soft willow]

The Enhancements are crazy good though.

[desert jay]

I seems like a toned-down version of the index detachment, I mean

[soft willow]

It's not quite the Index, but it's the most Index shaped yeah.

[tired cairn]

I do love Mysteries Guardian. It's so silly

[rocky shale]

It's just PLA foldable terrain so it stores pretty small lol

[soft willow]

It gets a good fluff explanation in the Knights/Assassins combo novel.

[tired cairn]

Oh huh. So disposition determines secondaries and not primaries?

[sour sequoia]

You will still have missions, from the sound of it

[quaint compass]

Yeah, but based on both players' detachment selections, you get specific primary missions

[tired cairn]

Hmm

[floral herald]

Unmasked defiler can’t be this cute

[jaunty dawn]

so the most basic thing is that you'd need to use Cyanoacrylate glue (Super Glue) but with that alone, there is the risk of it coming back off. Especially on top of paint or flock etc, you'll be relying on the strength of that attachment.
Having said that, this can still work, it will be fragile but perfectly servicable if treated with care and easily repairable by just repeating the process. It's not ideal, but if being able to paint the base separately (or using subassemblies in general) is worth it then it's not wrong at all. Especially with light plastic models, and poses with a solid connection to the ground.
As stated however, pinning is the ideal solution! you can prepare the connection and repeatedly test it as you paint which is great. Pinning is nowhere near as scary as it sounds but it's completely fair to hold off on it while you work on fundamental skills.
There's also nothing wrong with painting model and base already glued together. There are tradeoffs to both but they're all useful and valid techniques.

personally I'd recommend just gluing them, as I feel like the utility of subassemblies can be kinda misleading especially to new hobbyists and it's worth just learning with solid models and bases imo

[tired cairn]

Pinning a model to a base is pretty straightforward. It's pinning parts of a model together that's a real pain because you need to actually be precise.

I've also found that after a superglued model comes off a base because bits of the basing detached, the next time you glue it to the base the bond will be stronger. Because then the whole chunk of basing is now super glued to the base (instead of say PVA glue which is more typical for basing)

[jaunty dawn]

both very good points yeah

[tired cairn]

I should probably glue my models to the base before basing. But being and to dry brush over a base without worrying about the model being in the way feels really nice

[pseudo shuttle]

appreciate the input ^^

i think from what i can tell, im safe to glue the mini to the base before doing the base since its not using any sand or uh "flock"

i could be entirely wrong on this front though

[tired cairn]

You can always glue the model to the base first (with plastic glue even if you haven't painted the model). You can then sand or flock it later still as well. It's when you glue a model to the sand/flock where it gets dicey

(though, I think gluing a model to flock will be a particularly terrible idea, ha)

[jaunty dawn]

Flock is like a fiber basing material btw. Basically used for grass type things

[pseudo shuttle]

man im glad im not using flock or sand x3

[upper canopy]

https://bsky.app/profile/oculusimperia.bsky.social/post/3mikobwec6k27

Oculus Imperia (@oculusimperia.bsky.social)

Bluesky · Apr 3, 2026, 2:27 AM

[broken dew]

vile

[charred bridge]

It's over, I've already depicted you as soyjack and me as the Chad - Alpha Legion

[quaint compass]

It's over, I've already depicted you as the chad and me as soyjack - Alpha Legion

[pseudo shuttle]

potentially silly question

is there anyway to deepstrike a dreadnought?

[desert jay]

Yes

[pseudo shuttle]

👀

[desert jay]

Orbital Assault Force detachment lets you select any 3 units (at 2k pts) and give them Deep Strike

[pseudo shuttle]

oooh

[desert jay]

If you fuck with legends units, there's also the Dreadnought Drop Pod that is a deep strike transport that carries exactly 1 dreadnought

[pseudo shuttle]

does that work for new dreads too?

[desert jay]

This model has a transport capacity of 1 DREADNOUGHT model.

So yes, anything with the dreadnought tag

[pseudo shuttle]

ooh

i have no idea what i'd make the other 2 units

[desert jay]

It lets you pick at battle start, so you can be flexible with it

But a Land Raider or Centurion squad is also legal

[pseudo shuttle]

i guess, if im dropping a dread
a techmarine to buff said dread?

[desert jay]

Sure

[pseudo shuttle]

then i guess if im dropping a big melee blob out of deepstrike some bladeguard vets?

[jaunty dawn]

my The Hunter Strikes arrived and jfc this model is gorgeous in person

[pulsar cairn]

look at what i got!

[native schooner]

Played some Lex Ecclesiastica (Spirelike game where you play as Sisters of Battle)

Spire system is fun

[pseudo shuttle]

....maybe an eradicator squad instead of a bladeguard veteran squad

[pulsar cairn]

btw why does Bile have a chaos star if he thinks chaos gods are bullshit?

[pseudo shuttle]

spite

[pulsar cairn]

fair enough

[floral herald]

There’s the boring aspect of the answer: the model detail is older than much of his characterization

[pulsar cairn]

i see

[jaunty dawn]

He also did pledge allegiance to fulgrim and slaanesh apparently

Out of desperation

Though uh

That doesnt necessarily apply to all the Biles cause theres like 13 of them

[pulsar cairn]

yeah thats what i was wondering

[jaunty dawn]

It does at least apply to the one who considers himself the original

Who works with abaddon

[pulsar cairn]

i see

[jaunty dawn]

I think also I could see a version of him that believes in chaos even if he thinks the four aint shit

Also the minor god thats emerging in his image is stealing his soul

[paper bluff]

if I had to guess, it's an expediency

with X symbol Y happens

[thin ibex]

Guys, I have the crusade faction change bug.

Do I adjust my tau army to have more variety and go aux instead of experimental weaponry, getting rid of many of my big suits; or do I swap to space wolves?

[mental birch]

Retaliation

[thin ibex]

This is still my tau nar army, so my biggest boi gets no benefits

Though tbf he gets no benefits in aux, but the idea would be to have more unit variety

Instead of 90% vehicles

[mental birch]

Aaaqh

[thin ibex]

Also cause I have the tau nar I need like... bodies on the table lol

It is however supremely entertaining to watch the tau nar one shot knights and land raiders and baneblades

Also I've learned it's very useful to have some melee threat, even if just a little

[marsh tree]

Ooh, I like the way the Defiler kit is going to work

The ball and socket joints in the legs have guide pegs for if you want to assemble it in a scenic pose, but they work just as well without it

So you can cut off the pegs and angle the ball and socket joints however

[floral herald]

That’s good shit

[jaunty dawn]

yeah a lot of the big kits do that it's great

[broken dew]

that's pretty swell

[runic swallow]

Yeah not the first time they’ve done it that way, but always nice when they do

The modern kits all look nice but the mono pose stuff can be a little disappointing

[pseudo shuttle]

further thoughts
can bring eradicator or Infernus depending on amount of vehicle/monster presence

although i guess that means i have to bring both and choose which to deepstrike so i dont like
end up tailoring the list to my opponent by selectively bringing units

[tired cairn]

Some interesting things here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/oefzq9fg/new40k-how-your-army-affects-your-mission/

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/596197650332778498/1489649398785904752/IMG_2630.jpg?ex=69d12f9d&is=69cfde1d&hm=a43623b71456f2c5758311ab727642a7d101128ed92bdf2db0f104f9560be249&

[pseudo shuttle]

actually wait
when army building is there like, a sideboard equivalent (praying somebody who knows magic and 40k sees this)

[upper canopy]

Reinforcements yeah

Though that's just "you keep guys in reserve for deep striking"

[pseudo shuttle]

oh no i mean like

[upper canopy]

Not "I will not use them this game"

[pseudo shuttle]

yeah like i mean more like

[sour sequoia]

You swap reserves every game. You absolutely dont have a sideboard lol

Speaking in a tourney setting at least

[pseudo shuttle]

ah thats what i wanted to check

thank you

[sour sequoia]

Casual games do Whatever

Genuinely a great player will read not just the metagame but their local meta, my state is so much melee pressure that even if its not as prevalent in the generalized metagame, I Will See Blood Angels Running It Down so be ready. We actually never had tons and tons of knights, though.

[pseudo shuttle]

gotcha gotcha

then again , i dont imagine eradicators would do bad against infantry

so i may just be overcomplicating this for myself

[sour sequoia]

There’s only two armies that eradicators aren’t gonna have a nice target into, and unless you know a fella named Nemo you’re only worrying abt 1

Infernus similarly are good into anything terminator or smaller, its just a big overwatch threat at very high str flamers

[pseudo shuttle]

so, deep striking a brutalis a tech marine and some eradicators

should work out, relatively okay?

[sour sequoia]

Can I interest you in some Silly Bullshit

[pseudo shuttle]

i do love silly bullshit

[sour sequoia]

Ditch the Techmarine, pick up a Stormraven, load everything you mentioned into the stormraven

Hell, make it a redemptor

[pseudo shuttle]

oh no the brutalis is for vibes

[sour sequoia]

Brutalis stuff is hard cuz you’re reliant on 9-bombs outta deepstrikes

Which is 50% odds after a reroll on 2d6

[pseudo shuttle]

those are uh
terms

9 bombs outta deepstrike?

[floral herald]

9 inch charges I think

[quaint geode]

you can only deep strike at least 9" away - given that, without any buffs, a charge is 2d6 inches, you'll have (at base) a 27% chance of connecting (i.e. rolling a 9 or more). You can spend a command point to re-roll that, giving you a 47% chance of making the charge.

[floral herald]

Which are a little unreliable to roll

[quaint geode]

If you fail, you're just kind of hanging around for the opposing side to shoot with their short range melta weaponry, etc.

[pseudo shuttle]

damm

thats kind of a bummer

[quaint geode]

eh, I think it's actually meant to avoid a bummer for your opponent

otherwise you can just spawn in on your own turn, and charge in and attack with barely any interaction/counterplay on their part

I don't think Space Marines have got anything that gives a flat bonus to charges (though they have approximately one million detachments, so who knows), but some detachments like the new CSM Warp Portals one do focus specifically on that; close-range deep strike assaults are the main benefit you get from that

[pseudo shuttle]

im sure there is a way for this to not be a bad idea somewhere

in my head deep striking like
as close as possible wasnt ever really the goal because yeah you're just gunna
get shot

then again im coming at this from somebody who has basically no experience actually playing the tabeltop only watching it

[quaint geode]

I would recommend trying it out (borrowing someone else's models while you paint your own maybe), at a small point level. There are good reasons to deep strike - like, Knights players are very happy that they've regained access to the enhancement that allows us to put a heavy artillery knight so that it has a clear fire line on a key target - but it's very much a sometimes food

[desert jay]

I could also see a version who wears it as a symbol of political allegience, even if his religious beliefs don't match

An "I'm not Catholic but I do work for the Pope" sort of thing

[main pagoda]

you can always play a tester game at warhammer stores

[pseudo shuttle]

i mean i've played like
a bit?

but that was like, i think 2? editions ago?

or maybe 1

then a few games on tabletop sim but not like, the proper game
just "who can table the other first" kind of games

so i know , basics

just not some of the minutia of say like
deep strike charge viability

[quaint geode]

yeah, that's the other advantage of Deep Strike - the ability to pop in and take unclaimed objectives.

[pseudo shuttle]

so deepstriking a big scary melee thing
not something i should be doing

that i think cant even cap objectives

idk how objectives work i've never interacted with em

[quaint geode]

if you have a bunch of things that can increase charge distance, it can be viable (I think Tyranids ... maybe Chaos Daemons can do things with this? Maybe?); alternatively, if you have a bunch of scary melee things, then you can be more sure that at least something can make it through and start causing disruption in the enemy ranks.

[pseudo shuttle]

so potentially viable
not for space marines, and not this way

[quaint geode]

I don't play space marines, but yeah, I think they'll struggle to bring down a bunch of deep strike threats and then immediately charge in with them

[quaint geode]

it varies a bit by mission, but generally it's standing on circles - and dreadnoughts absolutely can do it (they're just worse at contesting them than infantry)

[pseudo shuttle]

nodding and taking notes

and how viable is it to, deepstrike, not with the intent of charging the same turn
but say i dropped a brutalis dreadnaught in the back of their stuff, but in such a way that they didnt have LOS of it

[quaint geode]

(I'm not like, a big expert, and I play Knights so I end up playing a slightly different game to more infantry-y armies! take what I say with a grain of salt!)

[pseudo shuttle]

hey its more information than what im working with x3

[sour sequoia]

Yes/no. There’s a higher cost strat to deepstrike at the end of the opponent’s turn, which would get you the full movement phase on your own at cost of ostensibly being vulnerable till then

A brutalis is a hell of a rapid ingress threat, if your opponent leaves any pocket you slap him down just around a corner and then they know next turn a bus is running them down

But I wouldn’t use a brutalis in deepstrike in the traditional manner, its way too risky and not quite tough enough to survive real focus.

[quaint geode]

('pocket', ftr, being an area within their lines where you can drop something down 9" away from a big threat)

[pseudo shuttle]

would a dreadnaught drop pod be any different?

[sour sequoia]

Oh god I gotta track the legends rules down one sec

[quaint geode]

Drop Pod Assault: This model must start the battle in Reserves, but neither it nor any units embarked within it are counted towards any limits placed on the maximum number of Reserves units you can start the battle with. This model can be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase, regardless of any mission rules. Any units embarked within this model must immediately disembark after it has been set up on the battlefield, and they must be set up more than 9" away from all enemy models. After this model has been set up on the battlefield, no units can embark within it.

[sour sequoia]

I play heresy so I know the pods there but I play tourneys for 40k, which wont use that pretty much ever

[pseudo shuttle]

ah so its just the same then okay

except i know
have a drop pod

[quaint geode]

it wouldn't let you drop closer - rather, drop pods are useful for dropping a bunch of stuff simultaneously in the early game, and just overwhelming them

[sour sequoia]

Alright so that’s an R1 deepstrike which is
A) normally not possible and very good
B) because you have to sit the pod and then disembark a dreadnought’s fat ass staying beyond 9” its actually kinda technically worse lmao

But if you do that and like drop pods of bladeguard or infernus you can really fuck with people

Go first. Seize objectives. Deal with it.

Set up tanks and secondary threats to blast people off the objective when they try to contest your dread and lads

[pseudo shuttle]

hmm
man brutalis seems , much more niche than i expected it to be then

[sour sequoia]

If you can’t make the brutalis faster or move through walls or dodge shooting somehow, they can be rough. Thats the deal on melee focus units in general

[pseudo shuttle]

i imagine it'd have even less of a chance if it wasnt deepstriking

[sour sequoia]

No, non-deepstriking means a lot of moving to corners and hiding till its time to full commit though

But you get movement instead of “SURPRISE ITS ME—okay oops thats a 6 okay reroll—oop thats an 8—good night sweet prince”

[quaint geode]

I think in Space Marines, you're slightly spoiled by the fact that the Redemptor is a lot more versatile - the Ballistus can shoot better, and the Brutalis is nastier in melee, but the Redemptor is an HMG Autostab Everest by comparison (albeit is more costly)

[pseudo shuttle]

damm is it that easy to break LOS?

[jaunty dawn]

the key thing about not deepstriking is you don't have the 9" limitation; you wait until the brutalis can get closer than that and then have a much easier time charging

and yeah 10e 40k is all cityfighting

[pseudo shuttle]

damm

i had thought cover was more sparce

[floral herald]

It’s usually pretty dense

[jaunty dawn]

stuff like this

[pseudo shuttle]

oh thats so much cover

i was thinking there'd be like

[floral herald]

“Melee threat behind a building” isn’t a rare form of midboard control

[pseudo shuttle]

4 pieces

hmm so maybe i do bring a brutalis but dont try and
deepstrike it

[floral herald]

You also can choose per game

[pseudo shuttle]

that sounds, complicated

[rocky shale]

You just try a unit and swap it out if you don't like it

Or choose to deep strike one game and not the next

[jaunty dawn]

I think cyan means for the deep strike selection

[rocky shale]

Oh yeh

[pseudo shuttle]

wouldnt i have to like
pick a whole diffrent uhh

god whats the term now

[rocky shale]

I realized that halfway through my thought

[pseudo shuttle]

detachment?

[rocky shale]

Why would you have to do that?

[jaunty dawn]

like you don't have to pick the same 3 units each game

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm but just picking 3 things just because doesnt seem smart
like wouldnt it better to like
build a list around it?

[sour sequoia]

On any map worth a damn or else Tau, Votann, Guard, certain death guard lists just erase you r1

Mont’Ka still kinda does that anyways lol

[rocky shale]

Yeah but you can also change the list if something doesn't feel like it works

[pseudo shuttle]

right but
changing the [thing that lets me deepstrike i dont know the name of], like thats super central and core right?
if i change that i'll have to change the wholeass list to be built around this new thing

[rocky shale]

That's the detachment

[pseudo shuttle]

ah okay it is detachment x3

[rocky shale]

But you can just change out a couple units to deep strike a different thing if the brutalis feels bad

[pseudo shuttle]

yeah i think deepstrike brutalis was a fun idea but it seems just, inviable

inviable? unviable?

[rocky shale]

Unviable

For space marines a lot of the detachments are pretty generic tbh

Like you can swap them without necessarily completely changing the list

[jaunty dawn]

honestly though its kinda academic

unless you play on tts or somethin

[pseudo shuttle]

oh my god thats a lot of detachments

[rocky shale]

Most lists are gonna have some cheap stuff, some fast stuff, some sorta vehicle, some sorta melee brick, and something that kills tanks in different ratios

[jaunty dawn]

the focus atp is more about learning the basic shape of the game with the knowledge than it like a few months the whole thing will be upended

[pseudo shuttle]

oh then i did have a datasheet question

i noticed a statline that wasnt there when i last played
or if it was i dont remember it

what on earth is OC?

[jaunty dawn]

how much each model is worth when contesting an objective

who ever has the most when objectives are checked gets it

[pseudo shuttle]

so if guy A has 1 OC
and guy B has 3 OC
guy B gets it?

[jaunty dawn]

if they have an equal number of models yeah

like

[pseudo shuttle]

oh so its only a tiebreaker when model count is even

[jaunty dawn]

no

a squad of 5 with oc 3 beats a squad of 10 with oc 1

because the former is 5x3 and the latter is 10x1

[pseudo shuttle]

gotcha

[sour sequoia]

Objective control is determined purely off OC count totaled between players

[pseudo shuttle]

oh so thats what the OC stands for

[sour sequoia]

Exactly!

A lot of less killy armies have tricks to hold the objectives at really high counts

Most line infantry is 2 OC, most regular dudes are 1, vehicles go anywhere from 1 to 8-10

[pseudo shuttle]

im learning so much today

[sour sequoia]

A few factions lean higher, Genestealers and Necrons are really high across the board

[quaint geode]

and banners tend to add OC, meaning that you can have a big unit that's really good at raising the banner over objectives and being killy

[sour sequoia]

Imperial Guard can do the funny “EVERY SINGLE GUARDSMEN OC4 AND ONLY GOES DOWN TO 3 WHEN BATTLESHOCKED HOLD THE LINE” and then there’s 60 guys crammed into the point and you will never take it

[pseudo shuttle]

i'll need to do some googling at what, raven guard-y lists are running

then sorta
reverse engineer that to fit my chapter better

[sour sequoia]

I’ve got a solid shadowmark list if you want, sec

Its tuned for hefty competitive but jump squads are good scoring and utility when Shrike makes em OC2, him and aethon shaan should both be in big fast hammers like vanguard veterans, stuff like inceptors is Just Good, phobos gives good utility in Infiltrators and Incursors

A shockingly good hammer in that detachment if you’re fussing around on TTS or able to borrow (cuz I expect em to legends it) is the Centurion Devastator squads

[pseudo shuttle]

...i have discovered the issue im going to have looking at raven guard lists

i dont really wana bring named characters

[jaunty dawn]

if it helps just pretend they don't have names

[sour sequoia]

Rename em.

[jaunty dawn]

that might seem trite

[sour sequoia]

The chapter masters are FODDER for Your Dudes tbh

[jaunty dawn]

but like the reason you bring them mechanically is not because they're a specific guy

it's because they're given unique abilities

[sour sequoia]

The only one who’s a huge pain in the ass is Guilliman because he’s clearly a fucking primarch

Aethon n Shrike are basically just there to turn on raven guard style rules, lots of deceptive positioning and high mobility

[jaunty dawn]

and yeah, in the current state of the game most all of the raven guardy rules are put on characters

[sour sequoia]

Their armors are really nothing special, they come with easy helmets, easy to file down the insignia

[jaunty dawn]

oh and more specifically the only thing that makes a raven guard list raven guard rn is taking those guys instead of someone else's guys

so looking at raven guard lists by definition means you'll see them

[pseudo shuttle]

damm so without bringin those guys its just
way harder to play raven guard in a raven guard-y way?

[jaunty dawn]

it's an opportunity cost where you gain very little by opting out of it, basically. unfortunately

[sour sequoia]

You could run vanguard task force. Vanguard instead of Shadowmark is strictly best with Ultramarines because they have like twelve unique characters stuffed to the brim with stupid bullshit

Shadowmark gives extra bennies to the RG characters and runs a more flexible list for what that chapter and most its successors want to play

[jaunty dawn]

there are sneaky rules from detachments and unit choice yeah

[sour sequoia]

Its much cooler imo

[sour sequoia]

So like if you run aethon shaan, your up-down Strat to vanish units back into reserves for resetting and redeploying across the map is just… free.

On top of aethon shaan’s unit doing rapid ingresses and heroics for free

So you can constantly jump scare people with charging vanguard vets + aethon for 0cp and then pick em up if they didn’t call your bluff, redeploy where they need. This has a nice shooting strat for tank cracking also that basic vanguard doesn’t have, that one’s a HUGE leg up for ease of play

[pseudo shuttle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/taking-notes-noting

[sour sequoia]

And honestly. Look up aethon shaan conversions

He might be the single easiest character to convert to another chapter in spite of the SICKO MODE sculpt and pose

[pseudo shuttle]

idk the vibes just feel
off , i guess

[jaunty dawn]

you also like don't even need to use his model

[pseudo shuttle]

but its still like
his stats and his abilities and all that

[jaunty dawn]

you are valid it's just the truth of the game rn

cause likee

idk I guess the point is kinda that for the most part he's been given the abilities he has not to express his character

but to express the concept of cool raven guard guy

buut it is true that you can't like

use your own loadout with his special rules etc

you can make your own chapter master to stand in but he would still have to be a jump pack claw guy

[pseudo shuttle]

i'd much rather just run some variety of captain
because at least no matter what, thats my captain

plus i can always paint up a captain as a chapter master they're fancy enough for it

[jaunty dawn]

fwiw crusade is kinda more about that

in that

generic characters get access to character progression that can make up for it somewhat

but at the same time they're not the exact same rules

[upper canopy]

There's make your own guys rules now

[pseudo shuttle]

:D

[jaunty dawn]

that's true

which gives you a bit more options as well

[rocky shale]

Unfortunately there's still no substitution for when a named character has a rule you really want

[pseudo shuttle]

okay looking at it
vanguard spearhead looks perfect

[upper canopy]

I still need to read the rules for making your own guy tbh

[pseudo shuttle]

okay so yeah looking at these vanguard rules

im going to bring so many eliminators

[rocky shale]

Tldr it's basically you pick one of 3 templates (varies per army) that make it like a infantry guy or a bike buy or a vehicle guy, then you pick a "specialism" that can change what it leads or adjust it's base stats, then you pick a datasheet ability from a short list, then grab some weapons from a big list

[pseudo shuttle]

wait bike guy
You can make a bike HQ now? i thoght the only bike HQ was a chaplain

[rocky shale]

Using the crucible rules which are sorta for-fun not tournament legal stuff

[pseudo shuttle]

😔

[upper canopy]

Were you planning on running tournaments?

[pseudo shuttle]

i
dont know?

is like, your local gamestore gunna use tournament rules?

[rocky shale]

In a casual game probably not, in like a semi competetive league maybe to some degree

[pseudo shuttle]

good to know

[jaunty dawn]

most pickup games honestly do run tournament rules

[upper canopy]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

your local scene may vary whether people will be willing to break from that mold is some fashion

[upper canopy]

I think for the most part of it's not for a cash prize or anything no one'll really care

[floral herald]

Matched play but not super sweaty is a pretty common norm for pick up games

[jaunty dawn]

people care even when they have legit no reason to

[pseudo shuttle]

just to be safe i'll stick within tourney rules

[jaunty dawn]

like the community atitude to legends datasheets is proof enough of that

[upper canopy]

Well you can do both

It's literally like

"Here is my Captain with a Bike"
"Here is Brother Brothus The Biker"

And you have absolutely no work to do

or if you're being meta you go like
"For pick up games I use Brother Brothus The Biker and then I have Gullieman for tourneys"

[pseudo shuttle]

i guess more what i meant is from my browsing the range
the only HQ on bike i saw was chaplain
so if captain on bike is this super converted thing you need to use crucible rules to even run

if they'e not allowing crucible rules then you're just down a wholeass HQ Right? which is a big points diffrence

[jaunty dawn]

the thing is you set expectations before you write a list generally

and it's unusual to have a collection of like, exactly one list

partially because with time that might end up being over or under points

[rocky shale]

One does not simply own 2k points of an army exactly

[pseudo shuttle]

god i forgot army standard was 2k

[upper canopy]

Yeah plus you shouldn't buy 2k all at once

[pseudo shuttle]

i've never even played a 2k game, even in my scuffed older editions on TTS

[jaunty dawn]

yeah like that's the thing is realistically this is a game that takes so long to build up for irl play that like

[upper canopy]

Everything you're worrying about is like ages away and you should just focus on painting fun dudes first and foremost

[jaunty dawn]

it's all academic

[pseudo shuttle]

oh for sure im focusing on my funny dudes first

it was more for like

how do i phrase this

if im gunna be using the brutalis for deepstriking
i'd wana give him like, soot/scorchmarks to represent his rapid entry

that sorta thing, inform mini creation from rules/army list backwards

(also this games fukin pricey)

so like
i wanted to have *something * loose to work towards lol x3

[sour sequoia]

Seconding voy lol

none of this is closer than 6-7 months out unless you got lawyer/doctor money in which case. You aint got the time to paint till then anyways

When you get a few boxes in I’d look at a 2k list just so you aren’t buying useless shit yeah

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm

so far what i own is uh

1 box of intercesors
a raven guard upgrade kit

and some citadel tools from like 3 years ago, and 3 year old paint i'll probably have to replace

the brushes are also probabbly super dead thinking about it x3

[rocky shale]

Brushes don't go bad with time, just with use and improper care

Paint can tho

[pseudo shuttle]

would you count sitting in a dusty toolbox for 3 years as improper perhaps

[rocky shale]

Probably fine
Ish

Dust won't hurt em if you wash it out

[pseudo shuttle]

oh thats good to hear

[floral herald]

Brushes last a while but using them a lot wears them out

[pseudo shuttle]

all they've ever done is 1 paint job of some old EC a few years back

granted, i did not do 2 thin coats

i was not armed with the knowledge i own now

[thin ibex]

Late to this, but I think a big part of local scenes using matched play rules is mostly because they tend to be clear and focused on being balanced. When playing with a stranger it can be nice to have boundaries to know they're not being a bad opponent

It's easier once you know folk to do weirder stuff

And play with the rules n stuff

[pseudo shuttle]

im so sorry mini's , you deserved better

[floral herald]

That’s not half bad tbh

[pseudo shuttle]

you dont have to be kind x3

[floral herald]

Pink has a tendency to go catastrophically wrong and you’ve got it on pretty consistently looking

[pseudo shuttle]

it was EC , so the one thing i knew how to do was to do pink x3

base white, then layer with pink

[floral herald]

Like it’s incomplete and just basecoated but they look fine

[pseudo shuttle]

you can see the lil crackles of white under the pink in places

[tired cairn]

(also cameras almost always make paint jobs look worse than they are unless you are really good at both)

[tired cairn]

Too bad. Accept our kindness

[pseudo shuttle]

never :D

[broken dew]

been playing Rogue Trader and i always thought Mon-Keigh was pronounced Mon-Kai but the eldar character i met pronounced it Mon-key

[tired cairn]

Same

Though I guess that's the joke so it makes sense lol

[broken dew]

yeah

[pseudo shuttle]

i think generally i was also just impatient last time i painted

impatient+"wait 2 thin coats but how thin and how do i know its dry"

[tired cairn]

That's mostly an experience thing

Though fortunately thin acrylics do dry pretty fast. Good chance if you start at one end of a model it'll be dry enough once you get to the other end

[desert jay]

AIUI, if you're bothering to thin it at all you're ahead of most beginner mini painters

[pseudo shuttle]

i'm going to be over careful this time

[desert jay]

If it's too thick it'll be gloppy, while if it's too thin it'll just take more than 2 coats

[pseudo shuttle]

1 marine base coat?
you'e gunna get like a solid 10 mins to dry

im also going to have to workout how long it takes an edge highlight to dry

[floral herald]

It’s usually quick enough that by the time you’ve done the last one on the model the first one is done

Couple minutes?

[pseudo shuttle]

nodding nodding

im so scared of edge highling its unreal

[tired cairn]

Worst case you can just put the base coat over it and try again

[pseudo shuttle]

i suppose

if everything goes well tho

these guys should turn out good

[sour sequoia]

We can help you with this

Wishin you patience cuz u dont need luck just patience n time

[pseudo shuttle]

i am
hopefully more patient now

oh right i need to find a guide for edge highlighting black as well

[floral herald]

Wow what a change

[floral herald]

Black is actually kinda complicated to paint

[pseudo shuttle]

man i have picked 2 nightmarish colours to work with then huh?

[tired cairn]

The recommendation for black is typically to paint a grey or really dark blue

[pseudo shuttle]

for the edge or you paint a dark grey instead of of black?

[junior robin]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gul_Du_Lac friend asked me about the dark age of technology so decided to look things up and found this Arkhan Land level of lore

[soft willow]

Okay minor art lesson for the purpose of minis painting time. Generally what you're painting when you paint Black is not black, but shades of lighter greys that represent the light reflecting off the surface.

Actual blacks are rare in nature, which is why a lot of folks use a dark cool color as a base for painting them.

[tired cairn]

As the base coat. So your wash or manual painted shade is a darker color/black

Otherwise you can't really shade black

[pseudo shuttle]

then i am
less? scared?