Warhammer and Such

[wide veldt]

There have been codexes in the past that are not factions

And are just add ons to existing ones

[humble plover]

But also also I just finished assembling an entirely incomprehensible loadout of kitbashed sisters of silence to proxy as the new Sororitas team, so that should mark which camp I sit in pretty firmly

[sour sequoia]

I am fully in favor of kitbashing and conversions and proxying tbh lol I wanna be clear

[humble plover]

I kinda couldn't give two shits about bighammer playability for my teams lol

[sour sequoia]

That shit rips

[humble plover]

Oh yeah no, not trying to say that at all

[sour sequoia]

I think its just actually poor selling point for both to say its playable in both, its kinda inaccurate ultimately and it makes people think imperial agents is playable if they go buy a bunch of singleton kill teams

People can handle one box of models being different lmfao

And being playable in both leads to shit like raveners getting scalped for months

[humble plover]

Just highlighting that I just made a team of some of the most flexible bighammer units that's still entirely unplayable in bighammer as is bc I just don't care lol

[wide veldt]

Raveners rule

Karskin is a good example of a good killteam to bighammer conversion tho

They don’t look too out of place, they’re good but not violently overpowered, and you can use a good chunk of their kill team stuff without h then being like

Way more customizable than anything else

Now IMO every unit should have kill team levels of customization but that’s JUST my opinion

[jaunty dawn]

A lot of the newer kill teams are just unit refreshes yeah

[wide veldt]

And then OTHER THAN THE SCALPING I like how they did the raveners although they’re uh

A little on the strong side

And then I hate the IG drop troopers because they basically just remade the drop troopers that already existing with slightly different rules for some fucking reason

[humble plover]

I like aquilons personally, I think them being tempestus works really well compared to elysians just being normal guard, but I can understand why a lot people don't

[jaunty dawn]

Theyre cool but kinda strange

Though having another deep strike unit in the deep strike subfaction isnt that weird

But why theyre different is unintuitive

[wide veldt]

Yeah I still don’t really get like

In what way

They are different

Maybe if I read it again

[jaunty dawn]

The wargear differences are relevant though in an ideal world wouldnt be

[humble plover]

From a lore perspective, I understand it as something like the difference between an irl paratrooper regiment and a spec ops team doing a halo jump

[jaunty dawn]

Yeahh

For my headcanon I just basically consider the aquilon models deep strike scions and the backpack scions infiltrate scions even though they cant do that anymore

[humble plover]

Like the Elysians are dropping in with Materiel™ to take and hold enemy cities and forts or whatever else, whereas the Aquilons are dropping in by themselves to just... be a kill team

[jaunty dawn]

Oh idk if emily is comparing them to elysians

[humble plover]

Oh

[wide veldt]

I think I am

[humble plover]

Didn't know there was a third drop trooper lol

[wide veldt]

The two drop trooper

[humble plover]

Elysians are just the one I see people complaining about the new ones replacing

[wide veldt]

I don’t remember tho

[jaunty dawn]

Elysians are drop infantry

Oop and legends

Scions were an existing unit and they also deep strike

On grav chutes

[humble plover]

Oh

[wide veldt]

I guess I mean scions

[humble plover]

Weirdge

Didn't know scions were also drop troopers lol

[wide veldt]

Yeah the other tempestus guys cause they have super similar names

[jaunty dawn]

So when aquilons came out ppl were sad it wasnt elysians but it was also confusing cause theyre basically a scion refresh but not replacing the old kit/units

[runic swallow]

RIP space French

[humble plover]

That would make sense why they're so similar to the Tempestus Scion models you can still play in KT lol

(I'm 95% a kill team player, so that's the only thing I know them from lmao)

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah theyre in inq agents

Though in inq agents theyre basically just kasrkin with less options

[humble plover]

Yeah it's... weird

[wide veldt]

Man

I know they said old codexes will stay compatible so they aren’t gonna do it but god

Please annihilate IA

[jaunty dawn]

Mechanically and narratively the aquilons are basically meant to be better at dropping but carry less equipment etc

[humble plover]

Annihilate IA or make them an actual faction (by annihilating DW and probably also Grey Knights)

[jaunty dawn]

I can understand the messaging issue of needing to warn people off it but honestly the detachments existing isnt a problem imo

Like the issue is just that theyre (possibly intentionally) underpowered

[atomic apex]

Old version compatibility my beloathed

[wide veldt]

Well deagheatch already got blown up

Deathwatch

That’s just IA now

[jaunty dawn]

They got glued back together though

[wide veldt]

What

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah they backtracked it after like a couple weeks

[wide veldt]

Did they get a codex?

[jaunty dawn]

No but they dont really need one

[desert jay]

Yeah but they need to either gain tools they don't have RN or accept their fate as a horde army

[wide veldt]

Are they mechanically a space marine subsection or like

What’s up

[desert jay]

DW got a Space Marine detachment (again)

[atomic apex]

Yeah

[wide veldt]

Oh okay

[humble plover]

But they also still exist in IA at the same time

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah since the beginning of the edition

[wide veldt]

I mean that’s a step better than before would they would get gods smallest codex

Sorry I have things against death watch lmao

And grey knights actually

[humble plover]

Real and based

[wide veldt]

Namely that an inquisition faction should just fucking exist???

[humble plover]

REAL AND BASED

[wide veldt]

You could even have a special detatchment that soups sisters GW

[desert jay]

Deathwatch had a beginning of edition detachment that got voided at some point (I think when the IA book came out?) and then a new one in Dec 2024

[wide veldt]

Anyway I would also allow grey knights to live if it somehow gives me real psykers again

Not guys with guns strapped to their heads Augh

[desert jay]

Wait, what if IA got the Daemons treatment?

[atomic apex]

Just turned into soup detachments?

[wide veldt]

Okay no I’m gonna wait before being mean

[desert jay]

Where Sisters and GK and SM have a little corner of inquisition units they can only use in a certain detachment

[wide veldt]

That could be something idk

[atomic apex]

I'll be real, I've never felt the need to use any of the demon detachments

[wide veldt]

See but I kinda hate that with daemons lmaoooo

[atomic apex]

Not really that interested in demons

[desert jay]

I don't know if it would be good but it would be on brand for GW

[wide veldt]

Death guard should just be able to take daemons of burgle as much as they want with all detatchments

[jaunty dawn]

I honestly dont think like. The lore of inquisition unit rarity is a good reason to nix factions that are decades old haha

[wide veldt]

no im not doing it for lore im doing it because those factions anemic

[jaunty dawn]

Or are deathwatch and are very unique and means squatting armies youve gotten people to kitbash

[wide veldt]

Those units would still exist tho

[jaunty dawn]

Oh okay

[wide veldt]

They’re just like

The idea would be to combine some of the like

Inquisition related factions that have almost no guys

And a bunch of IA

And make them into real army

And you can make a detatchment or subfactions centered around running the army the old way too

[desert jay]

Well my concept was like SOB and GK and DW sticking around, just sequestering the inquisition guys in a corner of their books

[wide veldt]

Like you could have a grey knights subfaction that just wants grey knights units

Yknow

And then just leave all the shit like navy breachers in lie

An imperial agents book with no army rule

That’s just “here’s the guys”

Or better yet put the RULES ONLINE FOR FREE

[desert jay]

Navis and Arbites guys are also out there yeah I guess

[wide veldt]

Tbh you could also stop people from souping arbites and I think no one alive would care

I don’t know if 90% of IA ever sees ANY table

[desert jay]

Oh and assassins, don't forget the assassins

[wide veldt]

The assassins are cool

They get to stay

I like them

But yeah put them in the agents book

Once long ago assassins had their own codex

In like 5e

All to themselves

You couldn’t run them as an army and yet

Codex Assassins existed

[desert jay]

Codices are weird in some eras

Because you would straight up have a codex for a faction of 3 units for souping into some other guys

[wide veldt]

I kinda like the era of codexes at least having weird rules and scenarios

[desert jay]

Like Sisters of Silence had its own codex

[wide veldt]

I hope the bigger stress on narrative means we’ll get more weird shit in 11

[desert jay]

Cult Mechanicum and Skitarii were separate books

[wide veldt]

And they aren’t just like

Making shit up - that’s wild

Tbh I would like there be more cult mechanicum units

The army is v skitarii heavy rn lol

A unit of like, apprentice tech priests would rule

[desert jay]

Fallen had a corner of a supplement 'detailing' them as a faction but only had Cypher and a Fallen squad

[humble plover]

It was like 19 pages total and it was perfect

[wide veldt]

Delightful

[jaunty dawn]

I think the servitor kill team is the first cult update like. Ever

Fallen is annoying cause a while back they kept trying to make fallen armies a thing and they just didnt work

[wide veldt]

It’s a subsection of a subfaction so like

Yeah it’s just gonna need to be a lore thing lmao

I don’t think it’s gonna work

[jaunty dawn]

But like they clearly wanted to do it but just did the weirdest things

[desert jay]

Reading the Fallen squad it's either a reskin of a legionnaire squad or tactical squad it's hard to tell

[wide veldt]

What the fuck are the fallen btw

[jaunty dawn]

Traitor dark angels

[desert jay]

Traitor/renegade Dark Angels

[wide veldt]

…. Is that it

[atomic apex]

Yes

[wide veldt]

It’s talked about like some insane world ending secret

And it’s just “we like everyone else had traitors”

[jaunty dawn]

So its like

[brittle salmon]

You can read the lexicanum page rather than making assumptions :p

[atomic apex]

Yeah no the secret is just that a few Dark Angels went traitor

[jaunty dawn]

When the lore was simpler fallen were like the only traitors

That we knew about

[wide veldt]

Or you could tell me instead of being passive aggressive :p

[pale narwhal]

in terms of non characters, yeah

wish we had more fucked up tech priest units (myrmidons)

[desert jay]

Back in OLD LORE before they published dozens of Horus Heresy books

[wide veldt]

Okay so it’s more of a hold over

[jaunty dawn]

The modern thing is basically; the fallen deal is that like half of the dark angels went traitor

[desert jay]

Well yeah but they also kept being brought up

[atomic apex]

I do think it's pretty silly now

[wide veldt]

It’s really funny that they like

Kill people

[jaunty dawn]

And if lion hadnt been a loyalist and survived they would be considered a traitor legion

[wide veldt]

To hide this secret

Okay so the problem is that like

[desert jay]

And then the plotline eventually got sorta resolved when Lion returned and started redeeming any who wanted redemption

[wide veldt]

A LOT of them turned

[jaunty dawn]

And then also they didnt get scoured, because they instead got teleported through time by caliban exploding

[desert jay]

And guess what the redeemed ones were called

[jaunty dawn]

So they never stop being an issue, cause ‘new’ ones turn up all the time

While the other loyal legions the minority that sided with horus were either killed or became subsumed in black legion or the like

[atomic apex]

||The Risen|| obviously

[wide veldt]

Mhm

[jaunty dawn]

So by the time of 40k, traitor dark angels are the only evidence that traitors really like…exist

[wide veldt]

Mhm

[jaunty dawn]

And they can speak directly on the heresy and many inconvenient truths it contained

[wide veldt]

So from the fallen’s perspective, THEYRE the dark angels

[jaunty dawn]

A lot of them yeah

[wide veldt]

More so than any other faction that like

Partially turned

Because it was so many

[desert jay]

Also yeah the redeemed Fallen are the Risen now and it's deliciously cheesy

[runic swallow]

Not really? There’s the whole Badab war guys for more recent traitors, and plenty of OG traitors are still alive and kicking due to the weird time rubberbanding the eye of terror and related places do

[wide veldt]

Nooo I thought they would be called the redeemed

The fucking risen???

[runic swallow]

Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean

[jaunty dawn]

Right but thats like chaos

Or renegades

[desert jay]

YES

[jaunty dawn]

But like the idea that what is essentially the founding narrative of the imperial cult

[runic swallow]

I still love that whole that gets posted here every few weeks of a Deathwing guy who falls through a flight of stairs and everyone is very careful not to say he’s fallen

[wide veldt]

Lmao

also amused by the idea that everyone knows about the fallen anyway

Like the dark angels are not actually good at suppressing info lmao

[runic swallow]

They kinda were, lot of dudes ended up mysteriously dead or missing

And only certain Dark Angels even got told

The average Joe Schmo Dark Angel didn’t know, you had to work up the ranks to unlock that secret knowledge about thetans and xenu the Fallen

[jaunty dawn]

Another aspect of it is admitting that the fallen exist kinda requires admitting all the shit theyve done to keep from finding out and its like a sunk cost fallacy shit

[wide veldt]

Oh yeah no I mean

In too deep now

[jaunty dawn]

Just so they look extra silly when lion shows up with these new, black armoured guys

[runic swallow]

Yeah once you’ve killed several inquisitors, iirc a company or two of Black Templars, multiple guard companies, probably a lot of other people mysteriously dying or having tragic warp engine failures you get into “coverup worse than the crime” territory

[wide veldt]

Also doubly so now that guilleman is in charge

Someone who actually has the authority and ability to punish them lol

[runic swallow]

Technically the inquisitors did too, they just failed to remember the whole “on charge on paper, but the big scary guys with guns get a say in practice” thing

[marsh tree]

I wonder why Warhammer, and especially 40k, attracts so many grifters

“Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword”

[pulsar cairn]

what is a grifter?

[jaunty dawn]

Cause grifters need a prey population and 40k is the biggest one in the space

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1487055873095499857/image0.png?ex=69c7c034&is=69c66eb4&hm=9e62c4bd3f964ecf6d5801d7eea71107e7efe58594b624949b9d9abd6c5d897b&

[marsh tree]

Person who whines about how everything has become woke

[pulsar cairn]

oooooh i see

[tepid stratus]

They're fully playable as the macrosyte swarm and geomancer

Lol and I see multiple people already dropped the correction.

[main pagoda]

Big game big fanbase heavily online it's the grifter dream

[quaint compass]

More accurately, someone who swindles people. In this context, trying to make money through outrage culture about warhammer.

[pastel rampart]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799328174214479993/1486752533748777202/IMG_9778.png?ex=69c74e72&is=69c5fcf2&hm=cdf620da3e526b4f2dd8c0efc39faf034d62fea6db0236d4887f0b20a1d7b475&format=webp&quality=lossless&

[little bay]

"ere we go"

[thin ibex]

Would farstalkers be an example of a unit that doesn't have rules for every unit but can be fielded in big hammer?

Cause the actual team has specific types of kroot, but in bighammer they're just farstalker kroot mostly

Stealth team is kinda like that too, in terms of having special stealthsuits that don't exist in the bighammer version

[jaunty dawn]

Nah farstalker is the standard

[little bay]

https://youtu.be/8TiqiOexD-8?list=RD8TiqiOexD-8

ere we go

[thin ibex]

Huh, ok. Tad confused, cause like, a couple of their models don't have specific rules, but the kasrkins can bring models and have them each reflected.

In the case of the FS, you just have to field some of the unique models as generic ones. Can the apprentek not just be a generic somewhere? Or is it because it doesn't have a home squad to be generic in?

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I dont think kasrkins like, pathfinder etc is rules

The latter is baaasically the issue

But you can use it as a plasmancer

And the cytes as various plasmacyte things

But yeah the kill team is basically designed like its a white dwarf team despite being an upgrade sprue team

And the apprentek is the biggest missing link

[paper bluff]

I'm genuinely impressed by these at this point

[little bay]

agreement

[jaunty dawn]

Why does the gunner have no head???? Pfff

[charred bridge]

Calgar ate it

[paper bluff]

yeah Calgar needed it

[tired cairn]

Calgar won't rest until there is only Calgar

[rocky shale]

https://www.youtube.com/live/-ubYzzULEZI?t=16975&si=9GOc2aD1N9AEsF-R

There's a couple people playing agents at adepticon

Game 2 on this livestream is one

One guy is 3-1 right now in top 32

Folger Pyles brought agents and the IA discord is following his matches like it's the moon landing

[pulsar cairn]

ya know

i understand chaos has resources for traitors and gives them opportunities for trading and all that and thats probably why most who betray the imperium turn to chaos

but it would be interesting to see non chaos traitor factions ya know

galaxy is a big place

do any just go rogue and become regular pirates?

[rocky shale]

Yes

They're just pirates

The rogue trader crpg has a whole npc faction of pirates

[pulsar cairn]

neat

[raven meteor]

And a seperate faction of like
Stationbound mafiosos, essentially

[pulsar cairn]

thats also neat

[charred bridge]

I wish they did more with traitor legions, like having a 3rd defected wildcard imperium faction that doesn't like chaos but defected from the imperium and willing to side with imperium or chaos so neither wins while they figure out how to defeat both.

Their dealio would be that they're fine breaking imperial dogma for an advantage like innovation and Abominable Intelligence but held back by having to undo millenias of brainwashing and also figuring out the best way to resist chaos without reverting to the old ways.
But probably for the best, imperium doesn't need more attention from GW

[rocky shale]

That just kinda sounds like playing the same imperium models but with your custom lore guys

[jaunty dawn]

Also kinda what some of the outer galaxy space marine chapters do

In some sense

I mean

Not as anti imperial as all that but its similar in effect

[charred bridge]

I don't play the wargame

[thin ibex]

Those renegades probably exist/ have existed in a temporal way, but there's not really any coherent anti imperial rebel factions that are in no way related to chaos

[jaunty dawn]

Idk its kinda like the cold war in that non alignment is at best playing off the two sides but its not a cold war and both sides are just as happy to blow up your planet out of spite

[past sphinx]

Wiser than all the rest of us

[thin ibex]

Like there are rebel governors, members of the tau empire, but there's no "the anti imperial faction" that balances against chaos and the Imperium

[jaunty dawn]

Just become diggaz

Reject modernity embrace gorkamorka

[floral herald]

Trvth nvke it’s the traitor usurper Guilliman’s 500 worlds

I guess it would be more like trvth cyclonic torpedo

Trvth virvs bomb

[broken dew]

trvth exterminatus

[charred bridge]

If gulliman defects once he gets ultramar back it's over for the imperium, can't compete with plot armor plus

GW has gulliman win so that every model is now ultramarines

[raven meteor]

Aren't the Custodes like actively working with Guilliman
That's like as close to the mandate of heaven you can get right

[floral herald]

He’s ripping out the imperial bureaucracy to install Astartes Fascism wake up Groxle

[broken dew]

i feel like

Big E working directly through Guilliman is perhaps closer to the Mandate of Heaven

[jaunty dawn]

Custodes are the visible aspect of that

[raven meteor]

Yeah but that's probably harder to point at and go 'hey look, I think he has the mandate of heaven'

[jaunty dawn]

But also had been gone from the galaxy until they came back so who says theyre the real custodians who says custodians were ever real etc etc

[past sphinx]

gulliman doing a horus heresy but woke

why yes the primarch should rule

[charred bridge]

You could probably tell the average citizen that yellow painted ork is a Custodes

[past sphinx]

but like rainbow

[floral herald]

Yeah Horus also wanted to do Astartes Fascism until they Got him

[jaunty dawn]

In terms of his control of the high lords that was mostly just being supported by the assassin lord I think

[charred bridge]

When they killed me for trying out Astartes supremacy cause woke - Horus

[pine matrix]

I definitely agree it's a real shame that it feels like every rebellion against the Imperium is either ultimately chaos or alien backed. There was that separatist empire in the Only War sourcebooks iirc but I think that still had some alien backing...

In the tabletop it makes a bit of sense, since they don't have a "renegade" faction that isn't one of the two, but it'd definitely be cool for the fiction

[raven meteor]

The Rogue Trader CRPG had the Anvers which was pretty fun

[pine matrix]

What's their deal?

[past sphinx]

Dont worry this Mutant Warp Spawn crammed into a human shell will fix the imperium, the other one just did it wrong

if we just keep giving all the power to these genocidal Mutant Warp Spawns that keep turning back up it will be fine

[charred bridge]

Much too late to implement but I think it would have been fun if the traitors were split like chaos backed traitors does their traitor stuff but doesn't use xeno tech.
The 3rd non chaos traitor imperium uses xeno tech but nothing chaos.
The 3 keep each other in perpetual checkmate

[raven meteor]

Immensely Pissed About The World They Live In to a point verging on nihilism
As an Officially Licensed Rogue Trader you're forced into conflict with them because they want to butcher anyone even slightly aligned with Imperium rule and you need to deal with them somehow to prevent the space station megacity they are growing in from just falling apart

[charred bridge]

Yea said station is like one of the most important ports in the Kronous system, them going indie would make a lot of people angry even moreso than usual

[pine matrix]

Definitely seems like the Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors were kinda written that way, at least in the Heresy series, but we have so much lore of them being chaosy from the start of 40k not really much to put that back in the bag

[pine matrix]

Neat!

[raven meteor]

They're a fun way to do 'persistent enemy faction that is not xenos or chaos' in that sort of game

[charred bridge]

A shame Anvers didnt do much for how much setup they got in game, you got a cutscene with Anvers ambushing you, and like a morbillion posters all around the city from the Anvers with a quarter of the dialogue mentioning the officials cant do much against the anvers. Then you find their HQ and just kill all the leadership and that's it?

[past sphinx]

their like an act 1 threat

barely an inconvenience

[charred bridge]

Do you mean act 2

Oh I see I get that yea their finale is basically an encounter from act 1

[thin ibex]

It has always been funny to me that wherever traitors start, they end up the spiky, flesh cape wearing, top knot having, murdery impalement types by the time we meet them generally

"I find the Imperium's ceaseless cruelty and oppression objectionable-wait when did I grow horns?"

[pine matrix]

Secessionist: "We need freedom from the Emperor's tyranny!"
Guy in a cloak who's 8ft tall : "Freedom to burn people on sacrificial pyres, right?"
Secessionist: "huh?"

[main pagoda]

well thats the thing with chaos right like you can look at something like vraks where even when you say start as non chaos it finds that weakness

[pine matrix]

I liked the secessionist flavour text for the outlaw source book for the Rogue Trader RPG which is like "The Emperor isn't even real, we don't even know if Terra is real!"

[pine matrix]

Yeah they justify it one way or another but it's always that, if it's not occasionally genestealers

[charred bridge]

Not free, more like under new management

[pine matrix]

But I guess when the Chaos Intelligence Bureau turns up with pallets of Space Dollars and six million rounds of ammunition, you either get with their program or they kill you and get someone who will

[main pagoda]

it is kinda why the inquisition stamps down so heavily on successionist movements is that they inroads for chaos forces

[floral herald]

This is a lot of it yeah

[charred bridge]

So close to CIA (Chaos Intelligence Agency)

[pine matrix]

Fuck that was the joke I was going for my brain short circuited

And I spent so long trying to spell Bureau

[pine matrix]

Anyway a renegade group in the Imperium that have a chaos uprising but crush it, obviously doesn't absolve them but makes some inquisitors confused

Actually, could a renegade polity basically wait out the Imperium? They can't beat them in terms of men and weapons, but maybe they could get a reprieve like the Tau did during the Damocles crusade

Hell the fucked up bureaucracy could just lose a couple of systems and never reconquer them

[main pagoda]

its kinda a gamble on the scale of where you are and what you are

like random feudal world at the edge of a unimportant sector who cares, key hive world yeah your fade getting ran

[rocky shale]

Folger Pyles is now 4-1, top 16 at adepticon running imperial Agents with no knights

Someone offered him $2500 if he can take home first with agents

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/596197650332778498/1487090525998940181/image0.jpg?ex=69c7e07a&is=69c68efa&hm=246134759f669654386c46b30c77f018f0a969d7cc82825314483377ea5debee&

[pine matrix]

:00

[sour sequoia]

Folger Pyles is The Scoring God this honestly doesn’t surprise me

Infiltrating an entire precinct of NYPD with 4++ is big money in this meta

Is it Imperialis Fleet?

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[rocky shale]

https://pastebin.com/1uPYjFeL

[sour sequoia]

Yuuuup its cop jail

[rocky shale]

No knights is the interesting part imo

[sour sequoia]

If he goes first you have to clear 60 bodies of 4++ in one round or you lose

[rocky shale]

No knights and only 10 deathwatch

[sour sequoia]

This is p much The IA List

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[sour sequoia]

But its the biggest hit it’s done so far, godspeed Mr Pyles

[rocky shale]

God I wish it was 60 bodies of 4++

Only 10 per unit and not battleline

But they are 3+/4++

Sanctifiers are 6+/5++, sob 3+/6++, and breachers are 4+/one guy with 4++

But basically all of that infiltrates or scouts T1

Rte+breachers get infiltrate, Combat Landers gives the next 3 breacher squads deep strike, clandestine ops gives 3 infantry units infiltrate, sanctifiers scout, deathwatch in a rhino. Half the sob in immolators. Only the split SoB don't get to deploy up the board.

Immaculate gameplay

[sour sequoia]

If Imperialis Fleet was in literally any other army it would be a supervillain on par with Mor Dakka or Pantheon of Woe

[floral herald]

True

[rocky shale]

+1 to hit oath or +1 OC and 5++ on a specific objective combined with some genuinely crazy enhancements and strats but Oops your army is T3 chaff

There's a strat for 4++ and a reactive move in the same 1cp strat

I'm Aeldari now

[hardy harness]

Stupid thought, do you reckon the Emperor might consider using the T'au to scrap the Imperium so he can start over again

Not even out of any sense of liking them, he'd plan on using them up and disposing of them after the fact

Just needs literally anything that can help fix the broken mess his dream became and they're roundabouts the one force around that can maybe do the job without also completely wrecking humanity

[upper canopy]

The Emperor can't consider anything, he's an insane corpse blasting out psychic radiation

[hardy harness]

He's got shards of his consciousness floating around, doesn't he?

Notably one on Atoma

...maybe

More likely it's a daemon or something tbh

[upper canopy]

I believe that's confirmed as a shard of the Emperor yes

But like, The Emperor himself cannot consider anything

[hardy harness]

It's not been confirmed either way, just really strongly implied

[hardy harness]

But anyway, a shard of his consciousness then

[rocky shale]

No, but also you can just write whatever fanfic you want and nobody can stop you

[hardy harness]

This is true

Mostly just trying to figure out how realistic it would be, which is apparently not realistic at all

[thin ibex]

Mm, I do not think the emperor would consider it. I don't think the Tau are compatible with his plans for the galaxy

[past sphinx]

its a weird scheme but i kinda dig it

the fire fist doesnt really do it tho

[hardy harness]

This is true, why I was saying a like

"Use them and dispose of them after" sort of deal

Not any real sense of liking them or wanting to ally with them, they're just the one singular force in the galaxy with more than a snowball's chance in hell of standing against the Imperium and won't treat humanity like shit, unlike every other faction

[junior robin]

feels like it would be more likely he would try that with the leagues of votann 🤔

[hardy harness]

Eldar can't stand humanity, the Necrontyr can't stand anyone, Chaos is right out the question, Orks are too stupid and treat everyone like shit

[junior robin]

I think the fire fist could work, it adds blanchitsu

[hardy harness]

And he can't really cause a civil war for a slew of reasons, most notably being whatever separatist forces end up defecting would just get crushed

[charred bridge]

Votann are/were abhumans so it'd make sense

[hardy harness]

Maaaaaybe if it was more orange? Not sure if that would look good, though.

[past sphinx]

paint over and do hazards i thnk

[hardy harness]

Ooooooooo that would probably look better

[jaunty dawn]

I think for all that changed the imperium is still already the closest to what the emperor wants

So really the premise that hed want a force from without to dominate it is flawed I think

But the concept of working with an imperfect tool out of desperation is kinda exactly how hes ended up with the ecclesiarchy

If any of him remains in the part that makes saints and miracles happen

[past sphinx]

If the emperor is somewhat a war entity and that's how miracles happen wouldn't he himself be shaped by the belief of his followers

Warp*

[pulsar holly]

Unless you get a lot of them together then Orks smart

And when Orks smart….Orks become really fucking scary

[pulsar holly]

-flashbacks to the scenes with the Ork diplomat in the Beast Rises novels-

[past sphinx]

yeah thatscooler

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/735679742048469082/1487207873867026514/FB_IMG_1774648328550.jpg?ex=69c84dc4&is=69c6fc44&hm=453a9b82c420f3d412c976eb40a5f657e89e0883ab54d0f77846c7102d918f04&

[rocky shale]

Agents player is now 5-1

[charred bridge]

Every faction can be ultramarine (calgar)

[dense sedge]

What’s the list?

[desert jay]

Posted earlier: #1161696278640594954 message

[dense sedge]

Very infantry focused

What’s the place that has Warhammer lists again?

Controversial opinion, but 1k is the best size
2k games take too long

[desert jay]

It's Agents, what other options are there?

[dense sedge]

And as a gsc player I save money

[dense sedge]

Fair; they have a weird set of data sheets

[desert jay]

Literally everything in Agents is tagged either Infantry or Transport (or is legends)

[pastel rampart]

Back in my day (which was forever ago) 1500 was considered the "sweet spot" of being able to bring some of your fun toys while not taking forever to play.

[dense sedge]

Interesting

[pastel rampart]

Most tournaments went with 1750 or more uncommon, 1850, though this differed on editions.

[rocky shale]

Noooo he lost by 2 points

Top 4 agents still is amazing though

[mental birch]

I wanna try 1500 again hahaha

[wide veldt]

holy shit

the return of the king

[hollow laurel]

hmmm

got the warhammer itch again and wanted to look at updating our old GSC list. It's mostly and on paper list at the moment since we don't have many models for it.

Anyone got suggestions? We're also thinking of tossing in some converted necromunda/chaos models into the army (especially Ash waste Nomads) so ideas on what we could proxy them as would also be appreciated

[rocky shale]

@sour sequoia Is the expert on GSC

[sour sequoia]

Stubbers, lasguns, shotties all become neophytes, get assorted big weird guns on 32s and some Funky Guns on 28mm for grenade launchers and webbers ¯_(ツ)_/¯

A lotta people fold necromunda in I literally have goons at adepticon scouring the market for necromunda models for me this weekend

GSC weapons are largely pretty streamlined but also unique random ass profiles that aren’t imperium standards so as long as its remotely consistent you’re set

[hollow laurel]

that's about what we figured yeah

tbh we always have a hard time brainstorming lists for GSC since they're a very different faction compared to what we normally run (which tends to be more elite armies like chaos knights, space marines, etc)

Heck even guard is easier since at least with guard we can just go "alright officers, infantry, tanks, artillery...and we're done"

...we were about to post our Krieg list but the recent points changes means it's now 2025 points instead of 2000
aaaaaaaaaaaa

[sour sequoia]

Do what you want, make sure neophyte heavy weapons are on 32s and attached characters are identifiable, and you’re good to go honestly

[hollow laurel]

mhm

realizing now we didn't word the post the best. We're also asking for help with like, what the list even should be because we just don't currently have enough game knowledge to where we can look at the various detachments and go "yes this works" in regards to units.

we can probably fill at least part of it in with the contents of the combat patrol since we're likely to pick that up at some point or another

we know it's probably going to be host, acension, or xenoscreed for the detachments in roughly that order of how much we vibe with the concepts

outlander, not acension

sorry brain just didn't work for a second

ascension

jesus

agh

[pulsar holly]

Tyranid?

[runic swallow]

Nope! Livestock, technically

Very, very angry livestock

[hollow laurel]

oh god ambulls

[wide veldt]

Yeah very old ass monster that any army could take

That has been legends forever

[runic swallow]

I swear they made a model for it earlier than this, or am I mixing it up with the Cyber-Ambull robot thing

Or is it a thing where they made a model for a specific thing and then it went OOP for inscrutable GW reasons?

[wide veldt]

I think the latter

There was one for like blackstone fortress I think

[runic swallow]

Yeah I thought it was for something like that

Also, do y’all remember the lil tripod guys from Blackstone Fortress? They were fun lil guys

[desert jay]

There's a Blackstone Fortress model and there's also an old Ambull model that I don't have the context for

[runic swallow]

Probably some 80s/90s era metal model

[floral herald]

This is a rebox of the blackstone fortress model I think

Same as the Zoat

[desert jay]

Yeah it looks the same

[pseudo shuttle]

okay i need the assistance of somebody locked in on 40k lore, specifically somebody who knows space marines

[main pagoda]

Sup?

[pseudo shuttle]

okay so

veteran sergant , thats, Diffrent and seperate from Veteran and sergant right?

[brittle salmon]

It's the sergeant of a veteran squad

[pseudo shuttle]

gotcha

[brittle salmon]

Like Sternguard Veterans

Why do you ask?

[pseudo shuttle]

so
basic marine, Veteran, Veteran sergeant, Sergeant , lieutenant , captain

am i missing any ranks?

[main pagoda]

Scout

[pseudo shuttle]

im mainly just working this out for , OC chapter reasons

[brittle salmon]

All the specialist roles also have their own place in the command hierarchy - chaplains, techmarines, chaplains etc

[pseudo shuttle]

went through the effort of diffrentiating the diffrent ranks,
Only to discover last night veteran sergeant exists

oh yeah but , i dont gotta worry about their colour schmes and how to distinguish them luckily

techmarines are always red, chaplains always wear black

i think? Libarians are always blue?

[main pagoda]

No

Depends on the chapter but a tech marine will have the colour of the forge world where they trained

Librarians depends on the chapter

[pseudo shuttle]

for a codex compliant chapter lets say

or does it vary even beyond that

[main pagoda]

Varies beyond that

[pseudo shuttle]

dies

well, thats a pain but its a pain i can worry about later

for now i have to wrack my brain to figure out how to distinguish a veteran sergeants armour

scouts i also dont really have to worry about , its just standard marine colour armour but ontop of fatigues right?

[quaint compass]

Carapace armor and fatigues, but otherwise standard patterns ye

Maybe some camo if the marines are pragmatic (read, unlikely)

[pseudo shuttle]

so is there really no consistency between librarians and its just chapter to chapter?

[pseudo shuttle]

well that was easier than i thought it'd be, panic for nothing lol

[brittle salmon]

I mean librarians all have psychic hoods, basically, so

[pseudo shuttle]

so its just normal space marine colours +psycic hood?

[main pagoda]

tbf to them scouts do have camo cloaks

[quaint compass]

Chameleoline cloaks 😌

[pseudo shuttle]

shout out to raven guards fukin orange camo cloaks

[jaunty dawn]

Librarian colour is blue, slightly darker than ultramarine blue

[pseudo shuttle]

wait so their armour is just dark blue??

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah traditionally

Or you can do like blue shoulder pads. Like it can vary but that is absolutely the answer for codex colours lmao

[pseudo shuttle]

oh that makes life much easier

[jaunty dawn]

Veteran sergeants is like yeah sergeants of veteran squads (for ultramarines its the veteran red helmet with a white stripe for sergeancy)

But it is also veterans who are sergeants of the top few squads in each battle company, it used to be a point upgrade for them to get the extra attack and access to armoury weapons

[pseudo shuttle]

it was just psysic damage that after a few weeks of working out all the ranks and their armours
the day after i finalise it all i realise i missed one x3

[jaunty dawn]

Sorry I got this the wrong way around, red helmet is um/codex sergeant and then white helmet/white stripe is veterancy

Um scouts/vanguard marines the distinguishing factor would be their 10th company colour if they are that rank and not a higher ranked marine using the equipment

[pseudo shuttle]

oh i havent even begun to think about company diffrences

[jaunty dawn]

Hehe

Its all free to be used or discarded as much as you want but since you were asking about the lore situation and there are actual answers yeah

[pseudo shuttle]

its all for the purposes of my own chapter but its getting an idea of the groundworks yknow?

[jaunty dawn]

Mhm exactly

[pseudo shuttle]

took me until last night to name the fortress monastary, no way in hell am i thinking about potential diffrences between companies yet x3

*** I FORGOT TO COME UP WITH A CHAPTER MASTER***

[soft willow]

Chapterius Masterus

Boom name sorted.

[pseudo shuttle]

tbh i dont even know what sort of naming scheme/ culture these guys have yet

[main pagoda]

well are they codex compliant in which case its already laid out

[pseudo shuttle]

i mean, 1st company is terminators and 10th is scouts right?

is it any more specific than that?

[jaunty dawn]

2-5 are the line companies, 6-7 assault reserve, 8-9 devastator reserve

Or with primaris they renamed assault close support and devastator fire support lol

Wasnt really necessary

Or wait

6-7 tactical reserve 8 assault reserve and 9 devastator reserve even

[main pagoda]

and typically you will have one of the reserve companies be armour focused one be air focused

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm

i'll admit i was more talking like

Visually in terms of working out company diffrences x3

[jaunty dawn]

trim colour is the standard

like the gold trim on boxart ultramarines is cause they're 2nd company

then the veteran squads have white trim for 1st

uriel ventris has green cause he's 4th

[pseudo shuttle]

off the top of your head do you know how raven guard do it?

[jaunty dawn]

not off the top of my head sorry ^^

a pdf of the codex supplement from 8th ed might have something

oh there's this from the main codex 8.5e

(the skull marking on the head is another common sergeant marker)

another nice one

[pseudo shuttle]

Hmm...maybe I just adapt this

...not sure though I built the colour scheme very specifically around a real-life inspiration so idk how changing the trim would work

Do you think knee pad colours would be an acceptable alternative for company markings?

[broken dew]

should be fine i think, color and markings i'd imagine have a fair bit of allowance for deviations

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah absolutely

[sour sequoia]

The cool kids do heresy armourials cuz RG have a unique system one sec

[pseudo shuttle]

Okay I can work with this,.knee pads won't be super disruptive

[pseudo shuttle]

Oh yeah no way am I going that in depth with this

If only because it'd be a nightmare to replicate on the tabletop

[sour sequoia]

This is also actually what legions did for beakies and Mk V and veteran honors

Because the bonding studs pauldrons dont play nice with decoration

[pseudo shuttle]

God I wish I had the money to run a full beaky primaris army

Not that there's anyway to buy non sergeant beak helmets for minis anyway

[sour sequoia]

The humble all-plastic Mk VI command, tactical, assault squad boxes from Heresy

That are at primaris scale in the old style

[pseudo shuttle]

Nodding

[sour sequoia]

Also printing!

[pseudo shuttle]

I don't think there's any difference between primaris corvus helmets and old corvus helmets right?

Visually anyway

But generally ill just save the beaked helmets for characters.
Makes them feel a bit more.... important? I guess

Speaking of characters. I really need to start thinking about a chapter master

And if I even Wana use chapter master as a title

[jaunty dawn]

There is a subtle difference

(Also the horus heresy kits arent primaris scale, its just primaris didnt change the size of heads)

[pseudo shuttle]

There's a temptation to try and grab the helmet of uhh

Whoever the new raven guard chapter master is

But that'd probably be
Very expensive

I think there's an old tactical marine... devastator box? That has a beaked helmet with a bionic eye I could use instead that'd be cheaper

Honestly the most annoying thing I realised was there's no like

Good,shooting space marine HQ

It's all good melee stuff but no like
Eliminator captain. Or anything with a big meaty gun

[jaunty dawn]

The classic beak had a round head, the primaris one has the vent and slanted side panels etc

It like. Literally doesnt really matter especially for using old heads on primaris models but fwiw

[pseudo shuttle]

It matters a lil bit for me x3

[jaunty dawn]

Valid!!

getting aethon shann just for his funky helmet would probably be overkill but the cool thing is he has a bunch of good shit for making custom guys

[pseudo shuttle]

Mhm
I wouldn't ever run him on the tabletop (if I played it)

Mainly because I Wana make my guys yknow

[jaunty dawn]

And its often a good idea to make proxies for named characters when they have interesting unique rules

Yeah for sure

[pseudo shuttle]

Like ill just run a jumppack captain as a chapter master for example

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah!

can give him an enhancement that way too which can be fun

[pseudo shuttle]

The closest I can get to like. A good shooty space marine HQ is master crafted bolt rifle gravis armour

But then gravis is so...chunky compared to the vibe I'm going for

[jaunty dawn]

Mhm

Officers tend towards being beatsticks

[pseudo shuttle]

Mhm I'm starting to notice that x3

I think in that case jumppack captain is probably the way I Wana go

[jaunty dawn]

The main thing captains do at the moment is give you an extra strat though, so if theres a good shooty one just having one in a shooty unit can be worth

[pseudo shuttle]

...valid point

God I wish there was like
An eliminator captain or something

There's the phobos captain and that's ...kinda it in terms of lighter more nimble marines

[jaunty dawn]

Yeaah

[pseudo shuttle]

But if any HQ was gunna lead a squad of eliminators I feel it'd have to be a phobos captain

...on second thought maybe not eliminators didn't know they couldn't go higher than 3

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah it sucks

I think they were popular at some point and they wanted to stop people taking 18 or something

[pseudo shuttle]

Maybe heavy intercessors or desolation squads as a big shooty group at the back then

...anyway I'm getting off topic
Brain. Lock in on making a chapter master

[pulsar cairn]

i have a feeling the guy in the big suit would like to be part of my Tea party

[paper bluff]

I feel dumb as hell for only realizing today that canicle for is likely one of the main inspirations for the mechanicus.

[past sphinx]

To the degree of near blatant plagiarism

[pseudo shuttle]

Like most of 40ks original lore lmao

[paper bluff]

1 for 1 it is the origin story. the idea of illuminated technical diagrams hits so hard

[floral herald]

A veteran sergeant is a sergeant who’s earned veteran honors (crux terminatus etc) and is thus validated for 1st company service or service in a command squad

Sometimes they’re technically in the 1st company and seconded out to a home company

[floral herald]

Technically speaking it’s Neophyte and then Initiate at the bottom

[pseudo shuttle]

Right but those don't have their own armour distinctions right so I don't gotta worry about them?

[floral herald]

Neophytes do (they haven’t been fully turned into space marines so they can’t wear power armor)

Initiate is just more or less the official basic rank for a space marine

[little bay]

they're missing the black carapace

[pseudo shuttle]

can you even field neophytes?

because this isnt like
a rank of space marine seemingly its just its own thing

[floral herald]

Scouts are neophytes

[pseudo shuttle]

oh yeah so they just have their own armour then x3

no need for distinctions

[floral herald]

There’s also Aspirants I guess but those are just people who haven’t actually had any astartesification done yet

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm im more talking about

ranks of , space marine that wear space marine armour that need to be distinguished by how that armour is coloured

like the vets, captains , etc

[floral herald]

Ah ok

[little bay]

yes

scouts

as cyan just said

[floral herald]

• chapter master
• captains (in roughly descending order by company)
• specialist ranks (lots of these)
• command ranks (honor guard and such)
• lieutenant
• command squad sergeant
• veteran sergeant
• sergeant
• veteran
• squad leader
• initiate (comes in several flavors paint job wise)

[pseudo shuttle]

Command squad sergeants also look diffrent???

aaaaaaaa

[floral herald]

I forget if there’s a more official sounding term for “squad leader” since it’s pretty obscure

[paper bluff]

I forget what they call them in the crusader squads...

[pseudo shuttle]

specialist im guessing is things like techmarines and chaplains?

because if so i dont gotta worry about those

[floral herald]

Yeah

[little bay]

you're wron

wrong

[pseudo shuttle]

its apothacaries chaplains techmarines and librarians right?

[floral herald]

There’s just a lot of em and I don’t wanna break out master of the forge or codicier or etc etc

[pseudo shuttle]

unles im forgetting one

[little bay]

the apothecaries will obliterate you

or torture you whilst keeping you alive

[floral herald]

They also have their own rank structures within those specialist ranks

[little bay]

the techmarines make you a servitor

the libarians got psychic powers

and the chaplains

well they're chaplains

[pseudo shuttle]

....i mean as in coming up with colour schemes for them i dont have to worry about them x3

[little bay]

nah

[broken dew]

just give em a white shoulder pad and call it a day

[pseudo shuttle]

its just
follow the official guides and then, paint the shoulderpad

[broken dew]

easy W

[floral herald]

Not always but they’ll usually have more command oriented honors

More likely to have a crux, more likely to have laurels, etc

[pseudo shuttle]

...right so thats also not armour paint x3

[floral herald]

Space marines have relatively few formal ranks and a lot of semi-formal ranking via battle honors

[floral herald]

They’re painted!

[pseudo shuttle]

the crux and lauruels arent part of the sculpt??

[floral herald]

They sometimes are

[pseudo shuttle]

like thats just armour deco right not like, paint

[floral herald]

But they’re also just painted on sometimes

[broken dew]

i probably need to redo the art i did of my characters since i didn't really add much in the way of battle honors

[pseudo shuttle]

right but its not really the same as say
sergeants have a red helmet and green eyes compared to the regular marine

type deal

x3

[broken dew]

i'm really happy with the color scheme i ended up making for my guys

[floral herald]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/f/ff/Ultramarines_Vet_Sgt_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121230164136

Finally haha

There’s a painted laurel

[broken dew]

i have genuinely never seen a painted laurel on a space marine

before now i suppose

[pseudo shuttle]

god i still need to workout how to paint the camo cloaks

[floral herald]

Here’s one in studio paint

[pseudo shuttle]

which is a headache i did not anticipate

[floral herald]

Old assault sergeant

[broken dew]

neat

new knowledge obtained

[floral herald]

It’s gotten more common in terms of sculpts for stuff like iron skulls or laurels to be sculpted on though

And AIUI that’s sort of a norm as well?

Like the ideal is you basically weld on the stuff as an armor embellishment

[broken dew]

yeah

[paper bluff]

Some times the roles get combined also

[floral herald]

But maybe you can’t because your helmet has reliquary-grade paint which is historically protected so you can’t take a welder to it

[little bay]

i like the imperial fists

[floral herald]

Or it’s on campaign and you’ve earned the honor to wear it now but now the downtime yet

[pseudo shuttle]

im sorry what

like you can have chaplain apothicaries?

[broken dew]

ok yeah i think the only two characters i've drawn of my chapter that i gave embelishments to were the chief apothecary and the chapter champion

[paper bluff]

Yeah the space wolves

[pseudo shuttle]

oh thank god thats a space wolves thing

i can ignore it

[broken dew]

my chapter combines the roles of chaplain and librarius

[paper bluff]

There is more tho

[pseudo shuttle]

is it codex compliant to do that?

[broken dew]

mainly because they don't have psykers so the chaplains get to fill out the anti warp shit role

[broken dew]

no

[pseudo shuttle]

then i dont gotta worry about x3

[floral herald]

There’s a bunch of chapters which mess with the specialists

[pseudo shuttle]

im not about to cause myself the headache of not following the outlined rules

[floral herald]

Whether they’re combined or just have new responsibilities

[broken dew]

for my chapter they have just like, a bunch more of their Chaplain/librarius hybrid called Regulator Vigilants

they do their own specific thing and also sort of handle the roles of chaplains and librarians

i did like custom names for all the different roles and they kinda differ a bit from codex standards

[pseudo shuttle]

you are braver than i for making your OC chapter non compliant x3

[floral herald]

I think entirely codex compliant OC chapters are actually rarer

[broken dew]

a lot of the lore for the chapter is stuff i kinda wanna rework a bit but i do like the roles and lore i wrote for them

one of them will be vanishing

cause originally i was going to have a librarius replacement that are just like, really crazily trained marines that were trained for fighting daemons and warp bullshit

but i thought it would make more sense to have those kind of duties folded into the chapters equivalent of the chaplaincy due to how they work

since the Regulator Vigilants(the chaplain equivalent) have some very specific chapter related duties the chapter has an enormous excess of them compared to what the codex says you're supposed to have

[pseudo shuttle]

thats shocking to me x3

[broken dew]

most of the revisions i have done to the chapter has been to make them more codex compliant to have them not be crazy outliers frankly

[upper canopy]

I think for the most part people like to use Codex Compliance as a base and then remix from there

[broken dew]

i kinda went crazy with it then started cutting back to make it less "my OC's are crazy cool and can beat everyone"

[floral herald]

Yeah “entirely” is doing a lot of heavy lifting

Heck the Ultramarines were technically not entirely codex compliant for the last like 300 years of M41

[pseudo shuttle]

i just find making OCs waaay easier to do, if i have rules to follow

[upper canopy]

The Ultramarines aren't codex compliant anymore

considering they have to have like 500x the numbers to warrant being present in every single warzone in the galaxy simultaniously

[runic swallow]

I do enjoy how the Calth stories recontextualized the red helmet thing as being originally a mark of censure, then it became a way to identify unit leaders in a degraded comms environment after the guy who was censured took charge effectively, then it became an official thing

Calth was a pretty cool bit in the heresy, especially the initial chaos (in the things are unclear sense) and hijacked spaceships stuff

Just a cool concept of a whole mess of tunnel fighting because the surface has been utterly devastated by all the falling orbital shipyard debris (and iirc continues to be throughout the fight as new stuff keeps falling)

[floral herald]

Everything they do is codex compliant because they have the author

(But they’re also fuckin around a looot organizationally)

[runic swallow]

Don’t worry, G-Money will just do a revised edition to make it a-ok

And the codex is probably best viewed like most Force Orgs in militaries: it’s the standard, but in practice and especially in the field you need to bend or break it some to work with being understrength or unique conditions

Something something Captain Titus to Leandros quote

[vital barn]

the tunnel fighting is sadly way less cool because it happens after the battle-winning mcguffin turned on so it's just Ultramarine main characters taking time to aura farm

[runic swallow]

Yeah, I know, but the concept is there

I forget what the thing was though, was it an anti-warp thing?

[vital barn]

in both 40 and 30k, after the battle the book is actually about ends the losing side gets the TF2 loss condition where you're just running around with your hands in the air getting shot

[runic swallow]

Lmao

[vital barn]

and in this case it was a big orbital bombardment net

[broken dew]

didn't he make it more lax on the codex compliance anyway

[pseudo shuttle]

there was new rules with the ultima founding right?

at least like
organisationally?

[broken dew]

yeah something like that

[pseudo shuttle]

i've just had a hilarious idea

if i ever want to make an ancient
i might not make it a banner

i might just make it a dude on a pole

[floral herald]

Yes - lieutenants being back is an Ultima Founding thing

[pseudo shuttle]

that is one thing im a little grumpy about with GW
i wish it was easier to buy like
dead versions of minis

if that makes sense

it makes some things i wana do way harder

[jaunty dawn]

they did that

recently

actually less so than I remembered

but there is one guy

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm theres heads but no like

bodies

also i dont think i could fully get away with using a dead space marine
as deco for my loyalist space marines

(at least for what i have planned)

[floral herald]

https://preview.redd.it/looking-for-sm-model-with-skeleton-shield-v0-o447ogu8rht91.jpg?width=1018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b81595e269cf27ff5ff2f8c7d473c7d498623bc

They do as skeletons anyway

[pseudo shuttle]

do you think theres enough pose freedom in say like
a CSM or khorne berzerker kit to pose them as a dead body?

or no?

[finite compass]

Not without a lot of cutting

Or unless you just want to use bits

[pseudo shuttle]

not fully sure

i mean the idea at this stage is
"dead imperium enemy on a pike"

but i dont wana just do heads

[floral herald]

I’ve put together a lot of CSM power armor and… probably not easily

[pseudo shuttle]

😔

thats a pain

i never anticipated getting dead bodies to be hard in 40k of all systems

[jaunty dawn]

isn't the bladeguard ancient has a corpse

skelton

[jaunty dawn]

but that's more reliquary

[mental birch]

Eldar guardian because

Wanted to do weird high fantasy edar

[pulsar cairn]

btw

the cool armored Drukhari folks

isnt there a thing were they go after a specific kind of aeldari warrior to complete their training?

[jaunty dawn]

Incubi yeah

Any aspect warrior seemingly

But theyre also basically a twisted parody of an aspect shrine themselves

[mental birch]

Exodite

Ahhahaa

[sour sequoia]

Ask someone for a neophyte body off the goliath kit, thats gonna be your best posing options

[pulsar cairn]

i see

thats such a dick move

the other groups trying their best to keep them from going extinct and we have these dudes killing their own

[pseudo shuttle]

As in the genestealer cult truck?

[pseudo shuttle]

If I could use skeletons this would be so much easier...

[tall depot]

https://youtu.be/x2zhCbIFBqM?si=ev3X4hgBqzSCt1Pn

[thin ibex]

I forget is the death company and the black rage a secret for the blood angels?

Or do other chapters know, roughly, what the deal is?

[little bay]

for their succesor chapters and blood angels only i think

no one else knows

[junior robin]

don't think all chapters know since there was one that thought they where ultramarine descendants instead of blood angels and tried to hide it until
some BA fought with them and found out

[thin ibex]

Suddenly space wolves hiding that some of them ride giant wolves and some turn into werewolves is a little less silly. Or maybe the same amount but thy BA are also silly geese

[pastel rampart]

BA are generally bloodthirsty in battle and have a reputation for it, so any instances of the black rage is easy to cover up as just a marine getting a bit too enthusiastic.

The red thirst is an open secret, but the black rage less so. Mostly because no one outside of the BA can tell the difference, but also again for the above point.

[thin ibex]

i realized that most space wolves probably look and smell monstrous to others, so a wulfen is likely not particularly discernable to your average person

[finite compass]

The Deathwatch is aware of it, but also has a vested interest in keeping it quiet

[broken dew]

the Deathwatch gets recruits from everyone

if they wanna keep getting recruits they kinda gotta not blab about everyones secrets

[finite compass]

According to the RPG they specifically get the occasional Sanguinary Priest from the BA or their successors to handle this eventuality.

[broken dew]

makes sense

[little bay]

nice corsairs

[mental birch]

Haha

[pseudo shuttle]

hmm
this is an issue
i've realised my rank distinguishing system doesnt work for certain space marine armour systems

[floral herald]

What’s the system?

[pseudo shuttle]

shoulder pad colour and trim colour

but phobos/reiver, and i think termi's dont yknow
have trim

[pale narwhal]

Phobos have one pad with trim, one without

Termis just don’t have the trim though yeah

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm like uhh

Sergeant, Liutenant , Captain, and then standard marine

but this doesnt translate onto shoulderpads without trims

i considered diffrent helmet stripes, but if using say, red helmet stripes , the red eyes dont look the best

[little bay]

nice marines

[pseudo shuttle]

if you want i can post a tumblr link to a post going over the chapter in a bit more detail

i'm quite happy with how i've put them together

[pseudo shuttle]

this is really the only alternative i can think about for colour schemes, using a white outline on the squad role marking?
the black shoulderpad and white squad role icon indicating a liutenant

but im not sure how aplicable that is for terminators

[finite compass]

Works

(Though that particular squad marking is an assault squad one)

At least by codex

[pseudo shuttle]

oh is that specifically for the jump pack guys?

i figured it was for just any like
close range specalised force

regardless its a patch but im not, super satisfied with the fix

[jaunty dawn]

With primaris having multiple loadouts per role assault got renamed close support and is used for any squad of that kind

With it being like anything fast or melee specialised unless its veteran

Also the flamer squads

[broken dew]

i think for rank stuff i just had the indicator be entirerly helmet coloration

though all of my ranks have silly names

remade and filled out that template you can find online

Defiant is standard marine, Coordinant is Lieutenant, then Commander, Master and Lord are Sergeant>Captain>Chapter Master

[pseudo shuttle]

the problem is with the helmets is the red eyes

like uhh

this, this is the problm

with the white helmet, if i had say, a red helmet sripe for some ranks, the red of the helmet kinda bleeds into the eyes

[broken dew]

just do a different color

[pseudo shuttle]

thats my problem right like

theres only so many colours that work with a white and black colourscheme

[broken dew]

fair i suppose

[pseudo shuttle]

a black helmet stripe is already in use
red has issues

grey just doesnt...pop? i guess

but then if i try making say, the whole helmet black, then it just looks really out of place

[pseudo shuttle]

see what i mean?

[broken dew]

yeah

i definitely gave myself easier colors to work with

[pseudo shuttle]

for a while i tried messing with the eye colours to accomodate for a red stripe

but they also just felt a little...off?

[broken dew]

i went a bit more minimalist on the coloring for specializations as well since i actually quite like how the color scheme i came up with panned out

[broken dew]

mhm

yeah i see what you mean

[pseudo shuttle]

you see the conundrum im in

i'm out of ways to difffrentiate the head
but then the way i came up for distinquishing without the head by using the trim
only works on armours with trim

[broken dew]

mhm

for all the art i did for my guys i honestly just added trim to a lot of them

[pseudo shuttle]

although, hmm
lemme get your opinion on something rq

[broken dew]

i think my chief apothecary was the only one with no trim

cause he was using older armor

[pseudo shuttle]

how're we feeling black with white stripe?

colour schemes are hard 😫

[broken dew]

i dig it

[broken dew]

yeah he's using Heresy armor with trimless shoulder pads

[pseudo shuttle]

....lemme see what this looks like on a captani rq

yknow i dont hate this

works quite nice with the white trim for liutenants...

[broken dew]

looks nice

[pseudo shuttle]

okay yeah throwing it on a phobos armour
it looks good

thank you freyja for providing opinions and being a rubber duck

[broken dew]

👍

have a jump pack medic cause i'm still quite pleased how the art of my lads turned out

[pseudo shuttle]

what i think i'll do is that only captains get the black helmet

[broken dew]

👍

[pseudo shuttle]

your guys look nice btw ^^

dusk defiant is a good name

[broken dew]

thanks

i totally stole it off the Death Guard but lets not worry about that

and yeah i really love the color scheme i made for my guys

[pseudo shuttle]

im honestly quite happy with my Luna shrikes too

[broken dew]

ended up kinda not doing the specialization color schemes properly cause i liked it so much

[pseudo shuttle]

tbh having a real life bird to work with def helped a lot for my chapter

[broken dew]

ended up still representing the colors but i kept more of the original Dusk Defiant colors than what would be usual

Zecht should really have a full red armor but i think that shit looks premium dogshit

so i gave him a kind of half and half deal

[pseudo shuttle]

i can steal behaviours, biome, and colour scheme from the inspiration x3

[broken dew]

the mechanicus red armor with the chapter shoulder pad is not a look i'm fond of

so Zecht escaped it

[pseudo shuttle]

....do termie helmets have helmet stripes?

or i guess, can they

im realising i didnt think this through enough

[thin ibex]

Is it even possible to do a full corsairs list in crusade for Aeldari? I think maybe the only way is crucible champs?

[rocky shale]

Technically yes but it's going to be a 2k list of almost entirely chaff infantry

[thin ibex]

And a lot of skimmers lol

For theme an iyanden themed list would be kinda cool, 50/50 wraiths and corsairs. But neither detach seems well suited for that

[rocky shale]

The advance and charge one could be okay for a handful of Wraithblades

But wraiths overall are pretty terrible

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/eliphusz.bsky.social/post/3mi6wzzmlk22b

Eliphus (@eliphusz.bsky.social)

I wanted to make a funny bonzibuddy Jokaero but he turned out kinda terrifying

Bluesky · Mar 29, 2026, 10:32 AM

[jaunty dawn]

Inq28 is cool and all but what if inqusitor but you play it with bigger minis instead of smaller ones

Inq100

[wide veldt]

Man I love Perturabo

[soft willow]

Joytoy Inquisitor

[pale narwhal]

I wonder if people have made 3d scans of the original inquisition models and cleaned them up for printing

or like, done 54mm versions of modern 28mm models

[charred bridge]

Late night Corvus Corax posting

[broken dew]

real lorgar harassing hours

[little bay]

and you forgot

harassing lorgar whilst asleep

[charred bridge]

Oh that's in the small text

Dream about harassing lorgar

[little bay]

no you don't get it

Harassing him whilst you are asleep

and not in dreams

[little bay]

also

[little bay]

(specifically our chapters armoury)

[broken dew]

strategically relocating a cyclonic torpedo into your chapter monastery 😎

[little bay]

strategically relocating bolter rounds into your chest

[quaint compass]

free cyclonic torpedo? Oh you shouldn't have1

[desert jay]

Oh hey, the new AdMech battalion box is the price of a combat patrol

[pseudo shuttle]

....this may be a dumb question

But does every space marine armour system have knee pads?

[valid brook]

Actually no!

I think it’s the MkVI where the shins just go all the way up?

https://preview.redd.it/what-are-everyones-thoughts-on-the-newer-style-mk-iii-and-v0-zga8udfuwaee1.jpg?width=584&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d0f5e85470d5c3de8c5b6c3447be4bc53981511

[pseudo shuttle]

Oh thank god it's tactical marine stuff

[valid brook]

can confirm it’s yr MkVI

[pseudo shuttle]

I'm just encountering issue after issue coming up with my chapters rank distinctions

[valid brook]

boots with the furrrrrr

[pseudo shuttle]

Differentiate rank by shoulder pad colour and shoulder pad trim colour?
Doesn't work for armours without shoulder trim.

Move to including differently painted helmets. Realise the system doesn't work if the space marine takes their helmet off

So I'm moving to knee decals I guess

I don't...think? There'll be any further issues?

[little bay]

oh the corvus pattern armor

or as the orcs know it

beakie armor

[valid brook]

space marines as nature intended

[pseudo shuttle]

Gahh
No I just realised I was planning on using knees for company distinction

And decorating both knees seems....weird

I need to do more space marine homework....

[little bay]

you're new to warhammer 3h?

eh?

[pseudo shuttle]

Not exactly

I've been into it for years by this point

There's just a lot of small details that I never picked up

Mainly because space marines weren't really my faction of choice

Also because I wasn't making oc chapters at the time

[little bay]

which group do you like?

[pseudo shuttle]

i think at heart im a big chaos fan

tau and GSC are also up there

[little bay]

GSC?

[pseudo shuttle]

genestealer cult

[little bay]

Ah

they're pretty cool

[pseudo shuttle]

its such a vibe and honestly just a cool premise

but in making my chapter ive gotten very attached, and in turn ended up quite liking space marines

[broken dew]

got The Infinite and the Divine

[pseudo shuttle]

...okay
i, think?
i figured it out

knee pad colour indicates company
knee pad decal denotes rank

[pseudo shuttle]

gahh this is nightmarish

[jaunty dawn]

I have a knee pad thing with my marines and when there's a mark 6 style merged knee I paint the whole greave

[pseudo shuttle]

by making the company markings on the knee
i've now got no where to put the squad markings

i might have to rework the whole rank system i've laid out so far

because i need a way to keep shoulders the same between all the ranks
so i can then make the shoulders the company markings

[broken dew]

got a Joytoy Blood Angels Intercessor also

[pseudo shuttle]

hmm

i know how i can fix this

i need to look at a helmetless phobos marine

that way i can actually see what im working with

[broken dew]

simply have all the markings drawn over top the chest, easy money

[pseudo shuttle]

....maybe i dont need to worry about the helmetless thing

[broken dew]

simply have your guys wear helmets

[main pagoda]

the only people allowed to unhelmeted are named characters so they can aura farm

[pseudo shuttle]

the helmetless thing , im realising doesnt super matter because like

these are space marines

everyone knows each other

you can look at a dude and know he's the captain because you know the captain

so, realistically i just have to make 6 distinct helmets

[floral herald]

Squad markings are usually just a number

Lots of places for it

[jaunty dawn]

Also theres belt helmets

Like you can put a helmet on the belt and paint that

In most kits anyway

[pseudo shuttle]

Battle brother
veteran (black stripe)
veteran sergeant (grey with black stripe)
Sergeant (black)
Liutenant (black with white stripe)
Captain (black with red stripe)

okay

now i think i've fixed it

i hope

this is a system thats purely based on helmet
leaving the shoulders free, for armours without trim, and for company markings
and leaving the knees free for squad markings

and , i think the helmets look good, i hope

hmm
not feeling the captain one actually...

[broken dew]

red with black stripe

[pseudo shuttle]

what colour eyes?

red eyes with red helmet doesnt show up super nicely

oh actually saying that

[jaunty dawn]

Looks sick

[pseudo shuttle]

time to update the tumblr post

[pseudo shuttle]

better with green eyes?

[floral herald]

I think the red is better actually

[pseudo shuttle]

something about it just feels, really out of place?

maybe im over thinking it

[charred bridge]

White or cyan eyes?
Red blends in too much with helmet when zoomed out

[pseudo shuttle]

mhm thats what i was worried about

i tried looking for marines with white eyes but there didnt seem to be much of a precedent for it

[floral herald]

That sort of red on red actually works pretty well

[tired cairn]

(I like the green). What about black eyes?

[floral herald]

You just need to pick out the lens with a white dot for glint

Assuming this is about physical models

[pseudo shuttle]

it will be

eventually

i'll try cyan eyes, they seem like they'll pop the most

[floral herald]

I’d stick with red

[junior robin]

nob reveal!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/m9ustghh/new40k-boss-nob-revealed/

[floral herald]

Aw man GW don’t do this to me

I like orks a lot I can’t afford this

[tired cairn]

I like the little squig

[floral herald]

The short of it is you only get so much good looking visual business on a 2” tall model and you’re already spending a lot of it on the multi-color body so you want the eye lenses to match another color on the model

(UM red lenses match the red weapons for example)

[pseudo shuttle]

Ultramarines have red weapons?

[floral herald]

When you start putting 4+ contrasting colors on a model it starts to look busy

[floral herald]

No always but sometimes

[pseudo shuttle]

hmm