Warhammer and Such

[dense siren]

1 custodian + 7 random ahh pilgrims they grabbed from the palace gates

[pale narwhal]

That would kinda slap tbh

[thin ibex]

1 custodes + a mix of lucifer blacks and zealots

[dense sedge]

50mm yeah

[valid brook]

54mm Inquisitor mentioned 🗣️🔥

They were cool models

[desert jay]

Eye of the Emperor + Sisters of Silence could also slap as a team combo

[pale narwhal]

I should see if someone somewhere has made like 3d scans of the original Inquisitor models for printing

that'd be a cool project

[jaunty dawn]

Id rather have a sisters on their own team I think

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/orivandewalle.bsky.social/post/3lznvxqjeyk2h

Ori Vandewalle (@orivandewalle.bsky.social)

CHOTINER: Then you took up the mantle of Warmaster.
ABADDON: I've been waging war for 10,000 years.
CHOTINER: Right. And you're up to, 11, 12...
ABADDON: 13.
CHOTINER: 13 crusades.
ABADDON: Black Crusades.
CHOTINER: 13 black crusades, OK. I guess I'm just wondering why Cadia was such a challenge.

-# Ori Vandewalle (@orivandewalle.bsky.social)
CHOTINER: And so you worship these gods.
ABADDON: I'm their champion.
CHOTINER: They all chose you.
ABADDON: Well...
CHOTINER: And they're gods of...
ABADDON: Chaos.
CHOTINER: Chaos, right. Four very feisty gods.
ABADDON: You bet.
CHOTINER: But in your case, this chaos is undivided...

Bluesky · Sep 25, 2025, 12:05 PM

[pine matrix]

CHOTINER: So you've finally destroyed Cadia, and the galaxy is split in half. A big win for you.
ABADDON: Indeed, a full half of the galaxy has fallen from the Emperor's light. It's another step in our inevitable victory.
CHOTINER: Of course, so now you're marching directly to Terra?
ABADDON: Well...
CHOTINER: Something else has come up?

[still warren]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ijbn2gge/inscribe-runes-and-create-power-from-harmony-with-the-dazzling-new-lumineth-realm-lord-battle-trait/

[pastel rampart]

Honestly I kinda like that army.

I don't think the studio paint scheme does it any favors tho.

[jaunty dawn]

Were mutlatin ereeee

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/kwjvw02q/love-to-crush-maim-and-kill-surrender-to-the-warp-and-become-a-new-chaos-mutilator/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WH_2nd_February_Eye_of_Terror_&utm_content=&utm_term=

I think its this rather than helbrute

They look pretty cool less 'bits stuck to a large ball of modeling putty' than the obliterators

Surprised its not an obliterator dual kit? If the daemon engine was a venomcrawler/new unit dual kit that wouldve worked out

[pastel rampart]

But will the rules make them not suck is the question

[jaunty dawn]

Oh wait were getting a defiler

Thats cooler than venomcrawler fair enough

I do like venomcrawler a lot though

I think the other question in the air is do any of the cult legions cough world eaters cough get to play with them

[pastel rampart]

Oblits got a kit in 2019, so I don't imagine they want to redo them again any time soon.

Mutilators got their first kit in 2012 so that's a fair bit longer.

[paper bluff]

How old is the chaos bikers kit At this point?

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Chaos_Space_Marines

[jaunty dawn]

Obliterators are monopose though, and share a sprue with the venomcrawler

Is the main reason theyd do it

[atomic apex]

are Mutilators just the melee version of Obliterators, or something else?

[jaunty dawn]

But oblits going (back) to three models would ruffle feathers rightfully

Yeah theyre just melee obliterators

Apparently they have daemon weapons now though

And also since when the new oblits came out they're basically chaos centurions

(They used to be terminator sized)

[pastel rampart]

While the whims of GW are inscrutable there's a certain pattern to their releases and they seem disinclined to replacing model kits within like, 5-6 years of release even if it shares a sprue with something. I suspect due to wanting to get as much money out of the steel molds as they can.

[jaunty dawn]

I mean

Half the stuff from shadowspear got replaced in like the next release

[pastel rampart]

True.

I typically default to "they want to keep using the molds because cash" or "no one cares about the model, really, and no one is championing it right now."

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah probably

At least theyre willing to sell it to ppl atm

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

[misty violet]

I do think they could stand to be a little more fucked up and meltier, but they are both an enormous improvement on the old mutilators and are significantly better than the new Oblits as well

Also I'm not seeing the big claw on these gentlemen so it looks like the defiler is more or less confirmed

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

[pine matrix]

I was reading through the DEldar crusade rules and lmao

Is there anything similar in other crusade rulesets?

[atomic apex]

It's hilarious yeah

[pine matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/they-got-him-ted-ted-show-gif-4342699035732514153

[atomic apex]

haven't read through all the crusade rules yet, though not much I've seen so far

especially not ones that punish you for doing too well

[pine matrix]

Well, it does make some sense in that once you have all 12 districts, you're basically got nothing else to do, but I think even the GSC crusade rules don't get their leader murked for achieving the Day of Ascension

[quaint compass]

Ye, that just resets your efforts as you go to a new planet

Votann rules force you to lose an asset if you lose a battle and have 4 or more of then
World Eaters may accidentally become chaos spawn if they get a duplicate on the Boons of Khorne roll

Seems to be the same for Emperor's Children (and I assume) thousand sons

[atomic apex]

all the Chaos armies have Boons and Spawndom

[thin ibex]

Someone is definitely going to make a Tyberos custom model using the Mutilator model

[floral herald]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-what-the-fuck-the-fuck-is-this-wth-gif-17571836

I thought GW forgot they existed

These guys look sick

[dense sedge]

whats the context of that meme?

[floral herald]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ErWnHLsVvls?

It’s from Ted

It’s basically a non sequitur

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufsO1dAzK4U

[thin ibex]

I'm so conflicted about which crusade army to go with

[tired cairn]

It makes sense from a gameplay perspective. But it's funny for there to be a ranged and melee form of the Obliterator type virus

Instead of being able to have both types of weapons

I keep expecting a demon named "keeper of secrets" to be a Tzeetch demon

[junior robin]

funny thing is that its more a "convergent evolution" in that they are just melee weapon nuts mutated by the warp 🤓 in the old lore at least.

hmm, new lore does mention techno-virus 🤔

[raven meteor]

Yeah Keeper Of Secrets weird me out as a slaanesh demon
Especially since they are apparently
Omniscient,

[junior robin]

don't have the codex but lexicanum traces the ob-virus back to the HH where a demon possessed a iron warrior.

"The Obliterator Virus can even corrupt Tyranid Bio-ships, infesting their neural pathway and severing them from the Hive Mind, allowing for further bio-technological modifications to enslave the ship to Chaos control."

[quaint compass]

Secrets in this case I assume relates to one's true or unknown desires

[tired cairn]

I am under the impression that they can't tell anyone (or even really act on?) those things, because they won't be secrets anymore, which is kind of funny

[past sphinx]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/kwjvw02q/love-to-crush-maim-and-kill-surrender-to-the-warp-and-become-a-new-chaos-mutilator/

how wonderfully violent

no more diaper lets go

[raven meteor]

Emperor's Children big shot: 'huh all of my summoned keeper of secrets are vaguely pantomiming at the world I plan to invade and making X shapes with their claws'
'surely this is no big deal'
(Yes I know the Keeper Of Secrets would probably just vibe with the bungled invasion because it's funny watching the mortals fuck up let me have this)

They ARE one of my favorite demons in appearance though
Just very cool

[tired cairn]

I imagine if anyone asks them question about how an invasion will go, they will respond with some Oracle-style response like "If you go to war, a great warband will be destroyed"

[pine matrix]

Do you have a shortlist? or got all the armies to choose from?

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/f0/KeeperofSecretsb.jpg

I've always liked the goat-headed one, personally.

[thin ibex]

Yee, for context we had a really cool narrative bit that killed my chaos lord for the iron warriors and i felt a change opportunity.

Our crusade has 2 ork players (one mek and one horde/bully boys), 4 Imperials (GK, DA, DA, RG), 2 Chaos (DG, WE), and 1 Nid

The chaos players are the most powerful currently.

I'm considering joining the Orks as a speed freeks or beast hunter waaagh.
I'm thinking about doing Aeldari as like background manipulators and maybe doing seer council/warhost but I want to run a Avatar of Khaine.
And I like the idea of Votann showing up with no care for the epic struggle of chaos vs loyalist forces because they have solid survey results on good resource deposits on the planet that they want.

I have armies built out for all of them

[dense sedge]

the old forge world one was also neat

[thin ibex]

Plan is to play needgard if i go votann

But I'm partial to brandfast

[quaint compass]

Brandfast fun

[pine matrix]

Aeldari sounds the most fun to me honestly, as much as I love the idea of "Chaos? Imperium? I just want to mine, for god's sake!" but doing psychic 3-way parleys to try and stop a human from sneezing on a soul stone is the good stuff

Plus as you say, Avatar of Khaine

[floral herald]

Hey I think I remember this rumor engine

[desert jay]

That’s wacky AF

GW had an era of bundling all sorts of things on the same sprue huh?

[jaunty dawn]

A little

In 40k it was mainly a shadowspear thing outside of launch boxes

Its still a thing with launch boxes

[wide veldt]

Man I actually think a game about being an imperial knight would fuck super hard

[jaunty dawn]

It would

If they made a good one anyway

[thin ibex]

They did actually make one, it was a mobile game iirc

Well received for a mobile game iirc

[vital barn]

I dabbled in it, it was a solidly B tier on-rails shooter, which is about as high as I'm ever willing to put a mobile game

[wide veldt]

I think like

The obvious play would be just the titan part

Of titanfall

For what it would play like

Or the battletech games

Idk how nimble knights are but I know Titans at least are like

Clunky as fuck

[vital barn]

knights are surprisingly acrobatic considering what they look like

they can sprint, jump etc.

[wide veldt]

Oh yeah then

Titanfall 2 lmao

But if you could customize ur titan

[thin ibex]

iirc knight pilots dont do a lot of like getting in and out

unlike tf2

[wide veldt]

Oh yeah I mean that’s why I think you would just do the mech part? You could also obviously do the whole house of knights as like

A tactics game

In which case just do harebrained’s battletech lmao

[vital barn]

titanfall 2 but with more in-depth melee

let me robot swordfight

[pastel rampart]

An imperial knight/titan game has to control like Robot Alchemical Drive, sorry I don't make the rules.

https://tenor.com/view/robot-alchemic-drive-rad-ps2-playstation-2-video-games-gif-8824745548615188033

[upper canopy]

Holy shit that gif

[jaunty dawn]

Titanicus tactics game would be pretty awesome

[past sphinx]

it was real!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyxGYiVLeDc

it wasnt very good

its a shame because titanicus is like the perfect thing to make a video game out of

[jaunty dawn]

Wilddd

[past sphinx]

released and then they basically lost the lisence a few months later so its fully gone

[paper bluff]

You want an imperial knight's mech warrior game?

[past sphinx]

just play MW5 and mod out everything thats not a centurian or a idk an awesome?

and the jenner for

[paper bluff]

Lord it would be so cool with your own dropkeep onto the battlefield and them armigers stride forth before you and various sized knight chassis go out with you on a team

And fighting on various landscapes of the imperium

[vital barn]

shame because Titanicus the tabletop game is really good

probably the tightest ruleset GW has ever put out, it just works

unfortunately it doesn't look like it's getting any more support

[pastel rampart]

That might be for the best, given GW's track record.

[jaunty dawn]

Mm at least the models are still available

[past sphinx]

theres a full box at my LGS

just sitting there

tempting me

Q

really happy with Bjorns face

[sour sequoia]

I can now run biosanctic. Hammer time

[wide veldt]

Baller paint, I like the veins

[dense sedge]

biosanctic is a favorite of mine

[sour sequoia]

It may actually be my least favorite just because most of its units dont play nice with the army rule

But I have a good time with aberrants and at least the first whipcrack of metamorphs, and its got favorable odds in ctanmaxxing necrons

Who are 70% winrate

[pale narwhal]

a perfectly balanced release alongside 1000 worlds ultramarines stuff

[sour sequoia]

Ultramarines and everybody else whose favorite band is The Beatles can also bite me lmao

60% WR all ed and then gets Victrix, Titus, better version of best detach in the game, and finally an answer to marines not having cheap scoring in a 90pt 12 OC & 20 wound brick lmaooo

[pale narwhal]

I haven't played 40k since before christmas and at this point I'm not sure I want to until the new edition rolls around

[sour sequoia]

September to January? Unironically the best the game’s ever been

Unless GW actually gets off their ass and emergency patches ctan, I’m also in camp chill out till 11th

But given we’re almost a month on when Mor Dakka lasted half this, who knows

[pale narwhal]

the fact that the Deciever has that statblock while still being a bananaman on a 40mm base is so funny to me

[past sphinx]

hes a good boy

[wide veldt]

Oh illl go get it when I get back to my computer but someone made the Rogue Trader party as a Kill Team

@floral herald

[dense siren]

Does anyone know if these are good/actually fold/print well/ any sort of information on it? https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/folding-modular-terrain-gothic-ruins-set

[rocky shale]

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-grimdark-foldable-gw-layout-ruins-space-elves-539447 I use this guy's stuff and its very good

[pulsar cairn]

Johnny no!

[floral herald]

That could be cool

[jaunty dawn]

Hmmb

[pastel rampart]

New Catachan would be great.

[jaunty dawn]

Could be pretty much any imperial guard though

[pastel rampart]

While true, most other IG fists don't look like that.

[jaunty dawn]

New cadians have them

Though uh

Certainly much slimmer which I think helps the catachan theory

Theres one on the krieg command sprue too

[pastel rampart]

Hm, yeah.

I couldn't find many photos of the fist at that angle so I assumed it was classic smooth-all-over style.

[jaunty dawn]

It is a pretty recent development

I couldnt see any outstanding special characters who had a power fist though

[pastel rampart]

Might be a special character then? But I'm hoping it's a Catachan refresh.

[jaunty dawn]

Mm hopefully

[mental birch]

Okay wild idea i had

[pastel rampart]

Personally I'd love new Steel Legion but with Krieg out and about that really yanks the energy out of the room. Already one greatcoat-wearing gas mask freaks in plastic.

[mental birch]

Disco lord mount kitbash as a Magos Myrmidax

What do folks think?

[floral herald]

Catachan refresh would do so cool

[jaunty dawn]

I think that would work

[pastel rampart]

They'll have to be at least as good as the Wargames Atlantic ones.

https://wargamesatlantic.com/cdn/shop/products/SpaceNamWhite2_2048x2048.jpg?v=1658331834

[junior robin]

you blind fools, thats clearly Rogal Dorns new fist! with the release of iron warriors, what else could it be?! /j

...because we are getting perturabo, right?

surely a refresh of a original legion would without a primarch would lead to angry fans besieging the GW HQ.

[pine matrix]

It's Royal Dorn's fist but Pert is holding it

[thin ibex]

alright ive decided to play votann in the crusade

Khazukan Khazukit-ha

[little bay]

you're no longer on the list of grudges

[pine matrix]

Gazul Gand Baraz!

I'm finding myself genuinely quite stoked for the renegade marines, they really are scratching an itch I didn't know I had

Not sure if I'd go full Red Corsairs but making them more piratical is really up my alley.

[thin ibex]

Full pirate space marines sounds fun

[pine matrix]

For real, I'm not as interested in gribbly mutations, I'm more interested in "what if the condition on this super soldiers turned off and then he read the Atlas Shrugged", terrible but for a different reason

[thin ibex]

my problem with my IW crusade was htat like, we didn't give a shit about chaos gods, but hte dark gods glory going low is real bad

so we have to do just enough to keep em happy

[pine matrix]

I was actually thinking earlier today "could you build a IW CSM army just from heresy marines" but then you're just building a heresy army at that point

I also wondered if the Corsairs would get different Crusade rules in the Maelstrom book, just for that reason that they care little for the chaos gods

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah people do it fairly a lot with iw

[paper bluff]

The ashen claws?

[wide veldt]

Would imperial agents be better if they could soup a little from various other imperial factions?

[thin ibex]

kinda, theyd be better with some unique units of their own that can meaningfully threaten bigger stuff

they're kinda forced to play hord-y rn

[jaunty dawn]

Thats basically what happened with immolators right

[thin ibex]

but also i dont think they're gonna get any real units of they're own, they're like a clearing house for the kill teams that don't have a specific home rn

[jaunty dawn]

I forgot they change immolator to cover nvm

Clearly imperium just needs to get "anti tank team but not like an imperial guard lascannon team or anything" kill team

[sour sequoia]

The way you would make Agents interesting or good is more or less “nuke Grey Knights and Deathwatch and merge all 3 into an Inquisition army”

[jaunty dawn]

I mean they did nuke deathwatch

Thats a thing that happened

[sour sequoia]

Which is what they were for 5 editions

[jaunty dawn]

The nuking of grey knights is pending

[sour sequoia]

But that means you have general imperium rep instead of another 14 power armor skittles, so I don’t think it’ll happen lmao

gdubs knows everybody will go buy the same 10 boxes another 3 times if they keep printing marines

[jaunty dawn]

What does skittles mean in this context

Cause the rainbow?

[charred bridge]

For now

[dense siren]

Ooooo alright thanks

[sour sequoia]

There’s fundamentally very little difference between 90% of the marines armies this ed besides like, Emperor’s Children, Black Templars (except these guys still run gladius lmaooo), Death Guard

Beyond the colors

[jaunty dawn]

Oh okay

But skittles have different flavours

[sour sequoia]

Yeah, more an M&Ms deal

[jaunty dawn]

So probably a better comparison would be m&ms yeah

[paper bluff]

No no, the rainbow warriors are a different chaper

They've got their own problem going on tho

[thin ibex]

GK never struck me as its own army just in vibes

they felt like super elites to get featured somewhere else

like they send 5 dudes in a reduced crew cruiser to go solve demonic stuff

the times they show up as a full army are pretty rare

[wide veldt]

Yeah it’s a little weird

An inquisition faction is a good idea IMO

And then just make the stuff that doesn’t fit that part of no army but every imperial faction can take them if they want

[pastel rampart]

That would be a return to their 3rd ed introduction, which was Daemonhunters.

[wide veldt]

“What codex would they be in” internet

[floral herald]

I think GK have a pretty strong army identity, Deathwatch is kinda the odd one out

[pastel rampart]

And Witchhunters as a companion piece, both of which could intermingle alongside IG and SM.

[floral herald]

Since they’re independent, secretive, and barely answer to anyone

[wide veldt]

Fair I just think they would fit as a “branch” of an Inqusitor faction

[floral herald]

Daemonhunters was pretty GK oriented, though you could also reverse-agents them into IG or SM iirc

Which mostly came up if you were doing radical inquisition stuff (you weren’t)

[wide veldt]

Tbh regardless tho I don’t think you need to be able to soup inquisitor stuff as other armies and like

Enough of IA is inquisition stuff it could be army the size of fucking

Votann

Tbh I don’t think IA is like

A problem?

Just a bit of a weird way to do it

Not good to have a full army be a trap option

Yknow

Also hm Daemons really is the same problem huh

To a degree

[thin ibex]

yeah my thought on GK is less about their independence and more about how they dont really deploy in force like you get out of hte tabletop

like its pretty rare for them to be anywhre in those numbers

[floral herald]

Yeah you play the exceptions

It’s kinda the same with space marines and CSM and etc

[thin ibex]

it's like 1 chapter in the whole of the galaxy; which is part of why they have special cruisers that allow them to function in support of like a single squad deployment

true, but lets compare to marines, who still have multiple chapters throughout the galaxy, often spread thin in their respective sectors

GK are the same but spread thin over the galaxy from Titan

[pastel rampart]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/181481618752405504/1468318220367695933/image.png?ex=69839567&is=698243e7&hm=2865960cb71a29f5b80975b25105263f2014df4a356833a09402987700071f98&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=437&height=583&

[paper bluff]

Truly an avatar of korne

[rocky shale]

Agents could be a perfectly fine army if they had an army rule thag actually did something and a single weapon over S12 that wasn't on an aircraft

Move the imperialis fleet detachment rule to the army rule, give fleet anything else, then give a "requisitioned" leman russ or something and you have an army that probably pulls like 47%WR

GW could free us of the imperial Agents discourse once and for all

[pastel rampart]

https://www.uuinstagram.com/reel/DUQN3-Ykl5k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

[wide veldt]

https://www.reddit.com/r/killteam/comments/1qtyk6p/killteam_von_valancius_corsairs_proxy_and_rules/

@floral herald for sure but for everyone

The kill team I was talking about

[floral herald]

Huh corsairs proxy that pretty well

[desert jay]

Steel Legion as a Death Korps upgrade sprue (new heads and stuff) :p

[desert jay]

How naive you are, to think a solution could free us from discourse

[thin ibex]

see slim gets it

i too feel like krieg takes steel legions thunder

and i personally think steel legion is cooler

[wide veldt]

So I mean

Part of the problem is that they shouldn’t have made Krieg catachan and cadia the like

“Defaults”

[pastel rampart]

Especially since Krieg was just an alternate paintjob of Steel Legion in the first place.

[wide veldt]

It’d be like if all normal intercessors were ultramarine squads

It fucking sucks lmao

If you can’t tell

I feel strongly about the way they theme the IG

It’s weird cause like

If they were special units it’d be fine

I don’t care if the death riders and the Catachan devils are called as such

Clearly the answer is to give each of those 3 their own codex

:p

[rocky shale]

Oh but secretly they are

[wide veldt]

Wuh

[rocky shale]

Ultramarines are the default so the default are ultramarines

Under that grey plastic is blue

[junior summit]

krieg being an infantry focused detachment is pretty cool though

also offmap arty that isnt disgusting

[wide veldt]

Also
Admech

Girl

Why do you have a detatchment that only applies to two units

Total

What the hell are you doing gurl

[sour sequoia]

Go peep votann Delve Assault

[desert jay]

TIL that the Deathstrike still has a blast template rule by another name

[wide veldt]

Oh literally one specific unit

That’s wild

[sour sequoia]

One unit that has no leaders

[wide veldt]

Oh fucking excellent

[sour sequoia]

They’re terrible

[wide veldt]

Yeah at least the castellan robots like

Have a leader

A good leader too, they’re a great unit

[desert jay]

Death Guard has a poxwalker detachment

[wide veldt]

Okay but that’s funny

That wraps around to funny

[desert jay]

Are they less terrible with deep strike and battleline?

[atomic apex]

Not better than just using a different detachment and units I think

[sour sequoia]

I dont think they actually get battleline, do they?

[wide veldt]

Yeah they do

According to Waha

In that detatch

[sour sequoia]

Oh wack 39k aint showin it

Honestly at sixty it probably works out

But do you want that many berserks when they’re unusable anywhere else

[stark cypress]

You see I like these

but I want them to have sleeved alternate arms.

[wide veldt]

Oh votann’s army rule is…. Weird

(Good Weird)

[floral herald]

It used to be really boring, but this one is fun

[wide veldt]

Man GW is so fucking funny

“Yeah to spend points you have to spend them”

Thanks guys

[desert jay]

Average GW rule writing

[floral herald]

GW rules seem to often be written from a parallel universe with slightly different rules lawyers than ours

[upper canopy]

did the 100 worlds thing happen

[desert jay]

500 worlds released yeah

[wide veldt]

It drives me absolutely up a wall

[upper canopy]

Did the Ultramarines die

[desert jay]

As typical for a campaign book, the plot line isn't resolved or anything, so expect maybe a summary when 11e launches and then eventually a novel or three telling us what went down

[wide veldt]

Do you think they did

[upper canopy]

I hope

[wide veldt]

That’s not what I asked :p

Also I didn’t see how much new stuff Votann got with that update

Actually gonna look at it now lmao

I still want them to get a “votann shard” tho

So lore wise like

Are they just hyper capitalists

[floral herald]

Hyper-industrialists anyway

[wide veldt]

Mhmhm

[upper canopy]

They're not worried about captial

but the hoarding of resources

[vital barn]

They're dwarfs, they basically work like all dwarfs

[wide veldt]

Honestly give 40k they sound Tau like

In terms of being cool dudes

*given

Like yeah sure they’re industrial resource hoarders but like

Gestures

[vital barn]

Their lore is basically "better and nicer than you and really smug about it" which is basically dorf standard

[wide veldt]

Seems like they might not be too The Horrors

Oooo are they all blanks like Fantasy

Where dorfs are anti-magic

[vital barn]

They're all clones and they have tau style small souls

[floral herald]

No but they’re engineered to be low-warp-presence

[vital barn]

and full power psykers via rune bullshit

Like I said, best of everything

[wide veldt]

Fuck yeah man sign me up

[desert jay]

"Nicer" is kinda mostly in comparison to the Imperium of Man

[wide veldt]

Will they let me fuck the robots or

[vital barn]

downside is that their robogodkings have Alzheimers and don't make new clones very often, so they're diminishing in a very literal population count sense

[desert jay]

If they want to strip mine your planet, they will, one way or another. You taking their offer and leaving is the easy way

[floral herald]

They seem pretty… chill is the wrong term but… less harsh internally

[vital barn]

eh, last time the tau conquered a hive world they killed five billion people with biochemical weapons, the Votann are at least on their level of mildly more reasonable

[floral herald]

Mostly just really ridiculous quality tests

[floral herald]

And they’ve kinda mined out their deep core holdings so they’ve gotta venture forth into the galaxy

[vital barn]

but they get supertech, full power psykers, low warp presence, safe FTL and safe-ish AI (you can get chaos corrupted votann bots though)

so I feel fairly safe in categorising them as replete with gimmicks

[desert jay]

Yeah but everything is Chaos corruptable

If Grey Knights had 0 risk they wouldn't be covered in purity seals and shit, they're just minimal risk for the high risk environments they fight in

[vital barn]

also they genetically engineered themselves to be immune to mega radiation, thus probably making every necron incredibly envious

[floral herald]

Their FTL is pretty slow at least

Since they basically just perfected computed warp jumps

Which are like 100x slower than a Navigator (you’d think this is a bigger problem but GW numbers haha)

[desert jay]

They also have a few planet-eater machines

[vital barn]

Everyone travels at the speed of plot anyway

admittedly eating planets is table stakes, both forge worlds and the Tau have supposedly busted those out and deconstructed entire solar systems whenever they want to do a big production drive

[desert jay]

40K writers having a concrete sense of travel speeds would require them to remember both how distance works and how time works

[vital barn]

Again, you'd expect that to signify industry rather more massive than most 40k books contain but whatever, it's 40k, scale doesn't matter

in one book seven capital ships is a small, expendable explorator expedition deliberately fed to necrons and in the next book it's the size of the imperial fleet at the climactic battle to decide the fate of a quarter of a segmentum

[past sphinx]

something something slannesh and the silver knight something something

[jaunty dawn]

The robots can decide for themselves

At least, the ironkin can, the cogs who look similar but smaller are like roombas

[wide veldt]

Nice

They’re like

Wraiths right

Living people’s consciousness

[jaunty dawn]

Theyre just artifical people made of metal

In contrast to the artificial people made of meat

[rocky shale]

Yeah they're AI

[wide veldt]

Oh rad

Iron Men

If you will

[raven meteor]

I'm reading a wrath and glory homebrew that has lots of lore on them rn (drawn from official sources to be clear) and I just learned the funniest thing
Many Guild surveyors think nothing of assessing assets of other civilizations such as plasma storage plants, Promethium stockpiles, ore barges, and industrial infrastructure. They are viewed no differently than naturally occurring resources. In such instances, trade is often attempted as the first recourse, but if these measures fail they will promptly turn to war.
Mining company rolls up and starts taking pickaxes to your spaceport
'valuable resources to be mined here' they say
You backtalk them and they take a huge ass plasma gun and just blow your head off on the spot

[wide veldt]

Would be really funny for the Admech to be fighting them

And then Cawl is just like

Hold on

Are you the fucking squats

LMAO

“Hey we want to trade for that plasma”
“No thanks we’re good”
“Okay we’re taking it now”

[raven meteor]

It's a funny thing
They view things very simply
Resources rightfully belong to whoever works the hardest to earn them
So the moral counter to robbery is 'fight back hard enough to keep your shit'

Because fighting is just working

[wide veldt]

Incredible

[sour sequoia]

votann vs gsc is just union negotiations its great

[paper bluff]

It would be funny if
Cawl absolutely knows that leagues technology is just DAoT tech but at the same time is pragmatic and smart enough to know that going into a full invasion of the leagues would be bad for everybody involved

[junior summit]

iirc it's better than DAoT tech

[wide veldt]

Okay so

A feel no pain save is in ADDITION to your armor or invuln save right

Like I know you need to choose between using armor or invuln

[raven meteor]

It is in addition!

It's a new, final step to the attack roll

[wide veldt]

Ball gotcha

I’m gonna be honest for a bit I thought invuln was ALSO a new step

But it’s ESSENTIALLY just the lowest your save can go

…. Highest

?

[raven meteor]

Yeah it means even if you get shot with a AP -47 godslayer warhead you save on a 4+

[wide veldt]

I’m surprised this game has DR be so rare

Is it just an edition thing?

[atomic apex]

I played AoS before I played 40k, so I af first assumed invul save was like Ward save

But that's actually FnP

[raven meteor]

I've seen it a few times
It's a unit ability, typically reserved for bigass dreadnought or tank equivalents

[wide veldt]

Mhmhm

[raven meteor]

I may (emphasis on may, awaiting being picked and just obsessing over the idea) play Wrath And Glory soon
Contemplating what I'd play........
I think either I lean into my gimmick and do an Argent Shroud Battle Sister or do a Siccarian Ruststalker (from a homebrew that is approved for the game in question)

[rocky shale]

DR is super good

[wide veldt]

For sure

[raven meteor]

From that homebrew:
waow..............

[rocky shale]

Reducing damage by 1 cuts the output of 2 damage weapons in half, and 2 damage weapons are very common.

[junior summit]

damage reduction is extremely good since most weapons deal 1-3 damage

even a lascannon only averages 4.5 damage so DR1 is a 23% damage reduction

krak missiles are a little under 33%, etc

23% is better than a 6+ save, incidentally

[wide veldt]

Mhm

[sour sequoia]

Fun fact you can always choose to take your regular save

I do this a lot to scum LoS on chip damage and pull people behind walls to save my shitmen

[desert jay]

They had to patch the game to not make DR reduce 1 damage to 0

[wide veldt]

taking a stormlord for my siege detatchment and

god i love the stormlord

this fat fuck has
20 kriegers +6 kreig command +ogryn bodyguard + Krieg heavy weapons squad

i am driving up and unloading half my army

[raven meteor]

I have learned today that
Apparently the Votann have
Bolt shotguns?????????

[wide veldt]

oh shit wait i think i can fit MORE guys in this thing

hold

[raven meteor]

Stormlords are so silly, I love them

[wide veldt]

hey quick q

when a transport says it can take astra militarum units

can

can souped guys from agents get in

it

i dont know if allied units get your faction keyword

i think they dont

which means they cant get in your transports

[sour sequoia]

Nope

They definitely do not

I also highly recommend the stormlord party bus in Grizzled

Since you can fit weapon teams and a full stack of bullgryn + commissar inside

[wide veldt]

i legit ran out

of shit to put in it

[sour sequoia]

That can happen

[wide veldt]

i added a psyker that attaches to the kriegers as well as the command squad cause they can have both

and an enginseer for the stormlord

[sour sequoia]

Its really meant for apocalypse, there’s a lot of chokes on standard maps it wont fit through

[wide veldt]

fair

i will die with honor

[sour sequoia]

Also unironically this is good because its stopping brood brothers from the most absurd cheese in the game

[wide veldt]

oh?

[sour sequoia]

Neophyte squads dropping out of stormlords and ganking then jumping back in

+1 to hit, lethals en masse, 4 lascannon shots and 8 plasmas and 2 grenade launchers per squad on top of the 24 stubber shots

[wide veldt]

man weird how every guard officer just has a plasma pistol and power weapon

strange that theres no other options

:p

[raven meteor]

At least sisters can snag combi bolters or something instead

[rocky shale]

I do love when someone brings a giant stupid tank and I go 🙂 when they realize that it doesnt fit through the 2" gap in ruins, or past my 50 point ranger squad just blocking the road

[raven meteor]

Also I think I've convinced myself to go Argent Shroud Sister for that game after all
Their sanctuary worlds and holy sites swallowed up by the maelstrom, but they fight on as vagabond paladins with no home.................. it's peak

[wide veldt]

tbh

[rocky shale]

I love moveblocking even if I'm bad at making it work

[wide veldt]

at that point my kriegers are just going on a death march through that gap lmao

[rocky shale]

The despair in someone's eyes when they realize I'm in the way...

[wide veldt]

or im slamming the stormlord into you

vehicles can still fire in melee right

[rocky shale]

Yeah, but if my 50 point unit keeps your 400pt transport with 400pts of units inside from moving where you want to go, I win even when they die

[wide veldt]

fair

we have to stop and deal with you regardless

[rocky shale]

Vehicles and monsters have Big Guns Never Tire, which means that they can shoot into melee at a -1 to hit and other people can shoot them when theyre in melee at -1 to hit

[wide veldt]

i have two tauros's with kriegers in them for this contigency just so im not like

ALL eggs in one basket

i have loaded the stormlord to the gills with flamers for path clearing

[sour sequoia]

Lets get a TTS rep in I promise I will make you 40% better at jamming the board or your money back

[rocky shale]

Basically the only way Agents has a chance of winning games is by dumping 30 models/wounds of 3+/4++ for 300pts with infiltrate right outside your deployment and jailing you

[raven meteor]

Due to how phases are structured, I think the usual play for solving movement blocking is overwatch or somesuch right
I wonder how many flamers the Guard get.........

[rocky shale]

I play elves so its more that I rarely have good units to moveblock with lol

But yeah we do need to get in a rep at some point

My local league is almost done

[sour sequoia]

Oh yeah you play elves thats the part where you just cry cuz your shitmen cost more than marines

[rocky shale]

When theyre in finals one of my 40k days will be free

Yeahhhhh

I have like rangers and corsairs that are cheap enough to moveblock with

11ppm is basically my cheapest model

[brittle salmon]

Big sheavies really need terrain phasing to work

[rocky shale]

Basically overwatch yeah

[sour sequoia]

Generally, along with stuff like reactive moves or big consolidate strats. The trick is finding efficient targets for it, overwatch can give some armies immediate chance to act with absolute impunity, or their jail units are actually stupid tough (Ravenwing or Thunderwolf Cavalry)

[rocky shale]

Or fly

I've been enjoying my guardian battlehost giant warlock blobs just having overwatch that kills god

[raven meteor]

My beloved, Stormlord of the sky
Stormraven Gunship.............

[rocky shale]

5d6+10 auto-hitting S7 AP-1 D1 shots not on my turn 🤤

[pale narwhal]

I like tau because we have cheap 6ppm shitmen (kroot) who can scout 7” and be a nuisance and also slightly more expensive shitmen (pathfinders) who can scout and infiltrate and also pack 6 slightly-less-ap plasma shots

And then also the Shitlord (ghostkeel)

[sour sequoia]

Someday. GW will trust me with an infiltrator+scout unit in GSC

I can be trusted with every deployment rule on one unit

[rocky shale]

Elves get a infiltrate+scout+stealth unit

Which hilariously sees very little play currently

[pale narwhal]

You can also buff the kroot to an unholy degree

Which is always fun

[wide veldt]

95 points left on my steel legion list

[pale narwhal]

Fun fact: a single krootox rider costs 40pts, has Scout 7”, and the Grenades keyword for some reason

[wide veldt]

Siege regiment with kriegers felt right for steel legion

W everyone piling into vehicles

[rocky shale]

Seige regiment is basically for like

Forcing artillery to not suck

Cuz you can give ignores cover to it

[wide veldt]

I do have a basilisk

…. Can you?

Do you mean the incendiary barrage!

?

[rocky shale]

Yeah

You use incidiary to negate the fact that artillery is normally always firing at a target it cant see, which gives it cover. So you actually get AP.

Unfortunately siege regiment doesnt really give you much other support for vehicles

[wide veldt]

yar

but it does give support for drowning the enemy in bodies

[rocky shale]

Outside of stealth and like flare burst for a rogal dorn commander

How many bodies you bringing?

[wide veldt]

26, 10, 10

3 kreiger plattons

+1 command swuad

squad

[rocky shale]

Rookie numbers for guard

[wide veldt]

• various attatchments

oh yeah i could absolutely bring more

but i like having them in transports lol

also

okay

is the krieg heavy weapons squad worth it? as far as i can tell the only difference between the three is ability, in p much all cases

but i feel like for heavy weapons squad Bring it Down is REALLY good for the lascanons

[rocky shale]

There is a mechanized detachment BTW

For like transport shenanigans

Heavy weapons teams with flamers can be kinda funny if you have something to carry them around

[wide veldt]

truuuuue that's probably a better useage of the stormlord horseshit

but the stormlord honestly is like

[rocky shale]

They're slow and have shitty accuracy, heavy flamers ignore half of that

[wide veldt]

?

oh

yeah

theyre great

[rocky shale]

The krieg hwt

You just need a flamer bus

[wide veldt]

i decided to pick up a siege cannon to sit next to my basilisk on home plate

and pick off the people i inciendiary bomb

or otherwise take potshots

[rocky shale]

The like "make arty work" combo is creed sitting with 3 artillery pieces and ordering them all every turn to shoot better in seige detachment to strip cover

[wide veldt]

mhm

[rocky shale]

It's still not great but it's the best you get

[wide veldt]

the artillery is here p much as fluff and because i love artillery

the real star is the stormlord and its clown car tbh

[rocky shale]

Ye

[wide veldt]

https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/list/osF9M

if u wanna look

[rocky shale]

Oh god why are there 2 commisars

They're really, really rough.

The only place I've ever seen them used is in grizzled company where they can lead ogryns with an enhancement.

[rocky shale]

Outside of the commisars its about as normal as you can expect a stormlord list to be

[wide veldt]

Fair but I figured something should’ve lead the 10 man squads and a command squad won’t fit in a taurox

Basically there to give orders

And have enhancements

[rocky shale]

Notice that they cant give all the normal orders

[rocky shale]

They can only do 2 of the shitty ones

[wide veldt]

Oh fuck

Sigh

I totally missed that

[rocky shale]

Yeahhhh they only give +1WS or +1OC/Leadership

[wide veldt]

I guess I would need to replace them with castellated

Castellans

To give real orders

Idk how much more expensive they are LMAO

[rocky shale]

65pts

But they get 2 orders

So you have plenty of points. Both of the enhancements the commisars have are skippable for a 10man squad

[wide veldt]

Mhmhm

That’s fair

[rocky shale]

stalwart and eager advance are the good ones there

[wide veldt]

Would eager advance even do anything for a squad in a transport tho

[rocky shale]

dedicated transports can

with this list the main thing I'd be worried about is just getting your 3 platoon units chewed up early and then basically just not having strats for the rest of the game

[wide veldt]

That’s fair

Thats part of why I went for the transports and the Kriegs

Protection and being good after being damaged respectively

[rocky shale]

Like the dorn commander can use flare burst but if you lose the cadians then you get to like... use trench fighters on ratlings?

Im not super well versed on guard but I'd think you probably want at least 2 squads with some staying/shooting power

[wide veldt]

[sour sequoia]

get some mf bullgryn

Anvil unit on par with deathwing and aberrants

[rocky shale]

Because the way I see this, the second your big guard brick dismounts im gonna try to blast it off the board to basically turn off your strats

Gonna slam some chaff-eating melee unit into it and just pretend the psyker doesnt exist

Now if you want to be really silly, load the stormlord up with 3x3 heavy flamer squads (firing deck 12 lol)

Probably dont do that in seige detachment tho because there's really no synergy

[wide veldt]

Hmmmm

[raven meteor]

My insane idea was to load a storm lord up with ogryns so Ripper Guns are blasting out of that firing deck
Can anyone give orders to a storm lord? That would let the ripper guns get order buffs for once

[rocky shale]

No but in the mechanized detachment an enginseer can give rr hits through a detachment

[raven meteor]

Eyyyy

[rocky shale]

Oh lord solar can

[raven meteor]

I am told the range on ripper guns is rather damning for something baneblade sized tho
I just love those things

[rocky shale]

The RR hits is funny tho and unlike HWT ogryns dont take up extra firing deck slots so you can put 18 of them in there

[rocky shale]

Consider...

Why yes that is 880pts of stormlord + ogryns shooting out of it

[wide veldt]

LMAO

Delightful

[rocky shale]

The enginseer is going to give it full RR to hit and 4++

If the enginseer is in danger, deploy 18 ogryns as a shell around the vehicle

Lord solar gets some horses idk he's there to order the tank

Kasrkin cant get in taurox oops

Anyways you get the idea

[junior robin]

run in the first problem with my 3.5 csm skirmish game, figuring out the points and unit limits

[raven meteor]

I didn't get into that Wrath And Glory game 😔
Honestly probably for the best tho, more free time is good

[raven meteor]

Wrath And Glory does seem REALLY cool
While I was reading up on it yesterday it sort of occured to me that Space Marine 2 kind of just reads like a campaign
Mostly because of the persistent party

[thin ibex]

what kinda superheavy would yall want to see in the Votann?

big tank? monster? walker?

something that occurs to me is like... factory strider vibes going on some stuff from the art

[quaint compass]

I feel a land-train or hover tank is the right vibes for votty

Like, a real chunky hover tank

And the land train is obviously a two/three section "model" that can be independently destroyed

[pine matrix]

Giant Head

You know shit is bad when the Ancestor Core starts walking

Or a big walking drill platform, I like the idea of their superheavy being like "this is the thing we're going to use to extract resources, it's going to walk onto the battlefield and EMBED itself and it will not move"

[jaunty dawn]

The votann have internet temples that individual holds use to commune with their clans votann

Called fanes

[quaint compass]

Hekaton Land Train
Three Model superheavy unit
Fore: Melee and Heavy Magna-Railcannon battery
Mid: Transport and Defensive options
Aft: Medium to heavy weaponry
Votann units that start the movement phase within 3" of this unit's models can teleport within 3" of any other section of this unit's models

I assume Melee Steeljacks are the best melee option for blending chaff blobs

Largest volume of attacks n such

[jaunty dawn]

Landtrain would be so bad on 10e maps haha

[quaint compass]

Oh for sure

But I can respect a long boy

[jaunty dawn]

Just funny to think about

It would be good though

[quaint compass]

Yee

Hovertrain to appease the grogs who don't want anything new (old squat landtrain) and to appease the me who only want cool things (new votann landtrain)

[thin ibex]

Land train - Fortification kek

New Votan super heavy. Bagger 40288

[paper bluff]

You want Lagan 40k?

[thin ibex]

just give em a retrofuturistic Tur from Iron Harvest

[pine matrix]

Absolutely, yes

[desert jay]

I’m also trying to imagine how it would work with deployment

[raven meteor]

Very simple
It's an aircraft 🧠
Its 'flight' is just barging through anything in the way 😌

[past sphinx]

we have a land train in necromunda

because we are the superior game system

[floral herald]

me when I have to drive to work

[past sphinx]

it would be easier to drive to work if you could do 110 in a truck the size of a house

and vehicular manslaughter was legal

[sour sequoia]

Montana is just like that

[past sphinx]

i thought bigass trucks where stupid when i lived on aliteral ranch with work trucks

now i live in a city and the trucks are somehow bigger

[thin ibex]

I hear in Australia they get even bigger

[past sphinx]

aussies have utes tho

an infintely better design

we didnt use anything bigger than a chevy silverado short of the 2 and a half ton for fires

[pastel rampart]

Same energy.

[floral herald]

https://youtu.be/zuF7dZFUz_U
I haven't actually seen this yet but it's a good channel

Good resource for people looking at KT

[runic swallow]

That man is ready to live and/or die historic on the fury road

[pulsar cairn]

is kill team any cheaper than the main game?

[desert jay]

Yeah you only need one box of guys to make most teams

Possibly all teams now?

[cinder wraith]

holy shit chat

i got some og rogue trader models

yippie

2 land speeders

[pine matrix]

Fuck yes

[pale narwhal]

oooh hell yeah

[pastel rampart]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8YZoAyWcAAFdSV.jpg

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1161697238653878384/1468957433408917728/20260205_080954.jpg?ex=6985e8b8&is=69849738&hm=f90e5bde306765e1bee132cf6bc890b66775daccc4a6ed51d5a299cec0a6f1bf&

Got a windmill almost finished.

[broken dew]

Ore wa gundam da

[upper canopy]

Cool giant WIP

[tired cairn]

Beachmech

[dense sedge]

Brood brothers and inquisitorial agents need two and then some of the non bespoke ones like cultists can want three

[tired cairn]

<cries in Hunter Clade>

I think cultists might be the worst offender though?

[past sphinx]

Oh God the pinning

[mental birch]

Its gonna be snowmelt river

Lol

[tired cairn]

Oh lol

[mental birch]

What do folks think of this

[tired cairn]

For mist? Hmm

[mental birch]

Waiting for the water to set before slapping the snow on

[mental birch]

Yeee

[tired cairn]

Hey, it could be a beach in a cold area

I think it can work. And I don't know if there is anything that is "wispier" if that makes anysense

[floral herald]

It’s probably them but Hunter Clade, Brood Bros, and Blades of Khaine are up there

[jaunty dawn]

I love the fluff stuff

[wide veldt]

Listening to this in lieu of reading the rules LMAO

[floral herald]

It’s a pretty good guide

I recommend skipping around to the teams you’re interested in

They also do really good battle reports

[wide veldt]

That’s fair! Tbh tho this also feels like a semi-good way to like

Get a look at what the teams actually are

Like I didn’t realize blooded was renegade guardsmen and am now 1000% more interested

[floral herald]

Yeah it’s a pretty good way

[wide veldt]

ALSO gotta say

love the kill teams

that are "buy the box. play everything in the box. yaaay you did it"

just very clean

[floral herald]

Yeah it’s nice

And… generally the majority of them

[tired cairn]

I wonder how they decide between one box and multi-box kills teams

[floral herald]

Most of the mandatory multi-box teams are weird converted 40K units

As for the ones which are KT boxes but benefit from a second box it mostly comes down to how many options they have and how flexible you wanna be

[jaunty dawn]

Usually its because you can take two gunners and you cant build two gunners

[wide veldt]

ough chaos cult......

what the fuck.......

[jaunty dawn]

Or another thing is if the team has more than 10 then probably there will be 10 humans and then various pets

And a lot of the time more humans is better than the pets

[floral herald]

Chaos cult is super fun and super interesting to play and also a mandatory 3 box team haha

[jaunty dawn]

And a lot of the time both are true for the same box even

[wide veldt]

yeah the 3-5 box team was what i was responding to there lmao

also: okay so you decide who has the intiative on a round by round basis?

[jaunty dawn]

Chaos cult did come out in one box tbf

They should make a spearhead for it

[tired cairn]

Or more humans are better than the special things you can get. Which I think is the issue for veteran guardsmen Kriegs

[wide veldt]

i actually started reading the rules properly

[tired cairn]

Or was anyways

[floral herald]

Yes but it’s kinda weird and complicated

[wide veldt]

yeah the sidenote says that mission types will regularly just

decide

[floral herald]

The gist of it is that in almost every game each player will have the opportunity to go first twice but you don’t know which rounds

[wide veldt]

i appreciate that the person going second gets 2 cp

it feels like a fair "not fucking you over" rule

[atomic apex]

You do yes
Though losing the roll also gives you cards that you can use for bonuses to the roll

[tired cairn]

It's rolling with... that mechanic that makes sure you don't fail or succeed too many times in a row I have totally forgotten the name of

[wide veldt]

oh right its also aa

so going first isnt an INSANE ADVANTAGE

[tired cairn]

Not as much as IGYG, but it seems pretty important at times

[wide veldt]

oh counteracting is cool

[jaunty dawn]

I always play matchups too big and tradey for it to come up haha

[wide veldt]

i gotta say

some kill team matchups are extremely funny

veteran kreigers taking down fuckin
corsairs

arbites taking down a deathwatch squad

[atomic apex]

It's neat

Some teams are very based around it

Usually the small model count ones

[rocky shale]

Yeah the elves are still squishy enough to be a 9-10 man team

You're just very fast and killy

[atomic apex]

Like Deathwatch for example has super buffed Counteracts

[atomic apex]

Corsairs were very fun when I played them one time

[vital barn]

what are the GSC kill teams, are they just giga chaff energy

I know there are actual genestealers

[atomic apex]

I love the Starstorm Duelist
Getting to shoot in melee is so funny

[atomic apex]

Brood Brothers and Wyrmblade IIRC

[jaunty dawn]

They have a kinda variable size I think

[rocky shale]

Getting to shoot twice and reposition and dash is even more funny

I like the sniper with the crazy silent heavy rifle

[wide veldt]

oh.... they made snipers good in kill team??

[jaunty dawn]

Snipers are fun

[atomic apex]

Silent all the time is so good 😌

I'll be real, the large amount of silent weapons they have was part of what drew me to Corsairs

[wide veldt]

maybe this is the game for me lmao

non-ass snipers in 40k

[atomic apex]

most of the snipers are pretty good IMO

and appropriately scary

[floral herald]

They get 2, Brood Brothers which is a very vanilla human specialist team backed up by some of the whackiest special models you can get;
And Wyrmblade which is a weird complicated white dwarf team I’ve never seen someone play

[atomic apex]

though Kill Team in general often kills pretty fast IME

[jaunty dawn]

The only real counterpoint is that its like sniping across the street at the longest

But thats fine

[floral herald]

Kill team snipers are super scary yeah

[jaunty dawn]

Some snipers do ignore some of the terrain rules though

[atomic apex]

the Patriach is definitely something yeah

4 APL, can take double turns

[jaunty dawn]

Both have elite operatives that are worth multiple of their regular one in team selection

The patriarch is worth 3 guys!

[floral herald]

The Patriarch is crazy

You usually need to play sneeps for that kind of melee killing power lol

[atomic apex]

oh do you know how Conceal and Engage orders work yet btw Emily?

it's pretty critical to all of Kill Team

[wide veldt]

yeag

ur guys can either shoot or be untargetable

(as long as theyre in cover)

on a round by round basis

[floral herald]

Also determines if you can charge but yeah

[wide veldt]

yeg

charging is shooting ur body at someone cyan

[atomic apex]

Silent is fun because it let's you shoot while in Conceal

There's a few models that can also Charge in Conceal

[wide veldt]

are there ways to hurt people in conceal?

[jaunty dawn]

Flanking

[wide veldt]

oh so you make them not be in cover anymore

gotcha

[jaunty dawn]

Seek light or heavy as appropriate to the cover they’re in Im pretty sure

[floral herald]

The simplest is to get within 2”

Which denies cover benefits

[jaunty dawn]

Oh that tooo

But like kroot have a bird that one guy can put places which gives seek light, so if theyre concealed in light cover they can still be targeted that way

[wide veldt]

alright ball

[jaunty dawn]

Or the psyker in inquisition is funny cause shes blind but has seek heavy on her pistol

[atomic apex]

Blast weapons can also splash Concealed peeps I think
Unlike Torrent

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

Flamers have saturate which means they ignore the bonuses from being in cover but they cant target people who are concealed

[pale narwhal]

inquisitorial agents can be a lot of boxes depending on if you want all the options or not

[jaunty dawn]

While seek is the opposite, while it allows you to shoot them they still have cover

[atomic apex]

it's still very funny to me that Kill Team has way more actual AoE

getting good value out of a Torrent weapon shot is also so good

[wide veldt]

ouuuugh

maybe 11e will bring back the sacred template

we have to believe

[atomic apex]

another thing that's amusing to me, even if it's totally reasonable
the large amount of Kill Team that just have "give some knives to your dudes" as an equipment

[floral herald]

There’s so much more yeah

[wide veldt]

i have a weird hope for 11e actually speaking of knives

[atomic apex]

and they're almost always a 3 Atk 4+ 3/4 weapon

[wide veldt]

please rename everyone "close combat weapons"

i hate that designation lmao

just a little more flavor guys please

[floral herald]

I like how KT does it

Where it’s kinda thematic by team

Imperial Guard gets gun butts

Dark eldar get panoply of blades

[wide veldt]

yeah exactly

[jaunty dawn]

I like how despite often having knives space marines get FIST

Knife might be an equipment still tbf

[floral herald]

Lmao yeah

[wide veldt]

like.... stats wise theyre fine but

fucks sake give a flavorful name LMAO

[floral herald]

The funniest one for me is this guy

[atomic apex]

and their fists are also kinda strong lmao

[runic swallow]

I’m surprised theirs aren’t bayonets

[atomic apex]

4 Atk 3+ 3/4 is actually quite good for basic melee

[floral herald]

Wait he has melee now?

[atomic apex]

charging an Astartes is kinda spooky unless you are really good at melee

[runic swallow]

Though space marines just punching dudes seems very thematic, especially since they can probably break your everything by doing it to an average dude

[floral herald]

I swear the mindwitch used to have no melee profile

[atomic apex]

the average human like model has 7 wounds in KT

so they die from 2-3 good hits from an Astartes fist

[runic swallow]

Yeah that seems about right

[atomic apex]

Fighting in KT is also kinda funky, because it's a back and forth of both of you spending your successes blocking and attacking

it's difficult to come out totally unscathed from a Fight, unless you are really good at melee

[jaunty dawn]

Death korps do have bayonets now

They can take axes as an equipment too though

[wide veldt]

okay and in kill team you only use one weapon per shoot/fight

[jaunty dawn]

Ye

[atomic apex]

yes

[wide veldt]

unlike warhammer where you fire literally everything lmao

[atomic apex]

it's not too common for models to have multiple guns either

usually it's profiles or maybe a sidearm like a pistol

[wide veldt]

[atomic apex]

I do love the semi common model type of dedicated pistolier though, which do sometimes get to shoot once with each of their pistols

I love this dude 😌

charges at you and then shoots you in the face point blank

[wide veldt]

oh my god the fight phase

everyone beat the shit out of each other

thats so fucking funny that both sides get to attack lol

[atomic apex]

yeah it's a back and forth

[runic swallow]

How’s it work?

I’ve not played kill team

[atomic apex]

you both roll your melee weapons, and tally up successes and crits as usual

then you both get to resolve your dice one by one on either Striking (inflicting your weapon's damage) or blocking (negating an enemy die)
starting with the attacker and then alternating

[runic swallow]

So successes can be used for either?

[atomic apex]

yup

[runic swallow]

That’s neat

[atomic apex]

a success can either deal normal damage, or negate and enemy success

[runic swallow]

Seems like a fun system

[atomic apex]

a crit deals crit damage, or negate an enemy crit or success

crits being more difficult to block is also a benefit of theirs

[jaunty dawn]

Its quite good I think the only thing is theres like

Almost always an optimal resolution

[atomic apex]

and then various models have rules to modify their fight and such too

[jaunty dawn]

And if theres a skill gap that can be weird

[atomic apex]

the most common being "resolve one success as a block before getting into the fight sequence"

[atomic apex]

how you actually resolve your dice is kinda solved most of the time yeah

[jaunty dawn]

It just isnt always intuitive I guess which is a bit of a skill barrier but its not too bad

[floral herald]

Yeah, most of the time it’s pretty clear what everyone will do

But occasionally there are real choices

[atomic apex]

you can sometimes choose whether you trade some damage or play it safe at least

it also really depends on how durable both models are

[sour sequoia]

You are leaving out the funniest part of brood bros

You can just run the fucking Patriarch

[floral herald]

Also speaking of melee freaks we love I love this guy

[sour sequoia]

10-11 shitmen and raid boss gigakill monster

[floral herald]

It rules

Though I think it’s more meta to run the Magus?

Or was

[wide veldt]

okay so

i have a question about cover

it counts as intervening if any straight line you could draw from attacker to defender crosses it?

(not considering the area of control thing)

[floral herald]

I’d have to check the book ngl

I think you use the firing cone method

Where you choose a point on the attackers base and draw lines to both sides of the defender’s base

[wide veldt]

oooooh yeah thats what theyre doing

it was just unclear that was the method

[floral herald]

And if any of those touch cover they are either in cover (if the defender is within 1” of the cover) or are obscured by it if it’s further and is heavy cover

[atomic apex]

Magus does give some big buffs to all your other dudes

[wide veldt]

and not just any line

if that makes sense

[atomic apex]

I really need to try and get into Raveners at some point

[floral herald]

I wanna play em more

[atomic apex]

they do seem cool, I just don't know whether I wanna deal with the tunnels

[floral herald]

I got a game in but it was vs Ravagers lol

Which is an extremely fake matchup

[atomic apex]

ah, the melee murder pile

[atomic apex]

also that tag is nasty, holy hell

7/8 damage profile if you win the roll by 3

that just oneshots human models

[wide veldt]

me trying to figure out how a mace is ranged

[floral herald]

Lomg tail

[atomic apex]

ye

[wide veldt]

i see

[atomic apex]

almost all the Ravener "guns" are super short range

[floral herald]

Yeah they get 4 weird shitty silent guns with tiny range

And then an AoE poison plasma pistol

[wide veldt]

3 range silent is really funny

ahaha i am concealed you fool

steps forward one inch

oh no

[atomic apex]

the Venomspitter is their longest range gun, and it's 8"

[floral herald]

Give them the business

[floral herald]

It’s unlimited range when distended

(Horrible wording)

[atomic apex]

oh right forgot that part

[wide veldt]

yeah yknow when you remove the range it becomes unlimited

obviously

why would that need elaboration

/s

[atomic apex]

well now it has no range tag, so it uses normal rules which is unlimited range

[atomic apex]

the Felltalon has one with 6"
which can still be pretty relevant at 3 APL

since you can shoot, Charge, Fight, if people are in range

[floral herald]

I forgot about the Felltalon squirtgun

[atomic apex]

part of why I'm unsure about Raveners is also that high wounds but shit saves feels odd to me

though I know they also have a bunch of hit and run bullshit from the tunnels

[floral herald]

So, they have a secret

5+ saves are fake when you autoretain 2 in cover

[atomic apex]

fair

[floral herald]

Otherwise you use the tunnel and empty charges to stay unshootable

(Empty charge is when you charge but do not fight, or charge and fight but spare the enemy on purpose)

[atomic apex]

yeah that makes sense

being strategically in melee to become ineligible to be shot does seem very useful at times

[wide veldt]

yaaaay ive finished the core rules

not that complicated actually as things go

[atomic apex]

but did you read the kill zone rules yet? 😛

[wide veldt]

no

[atomic apex]

but yeah the core rules aren't too bad mostly

[atomic apex]

mostly just because a bunch of the terrain and movement stuff is actually in the killzone rules

[wide veldt]

so how do u know whats light and whats heavy terrain

[floral herald]

For the official kill zones which each piece of terrain is is labeled

[atomic apex]

yeah the tags of each terrain piece are specified in the killzone rules

[floral herald]

If you’re using your own terrain you discuss it before the match (or it’s the TO’s terrain rules)

[wide veldt]

oh ball

[atomic apex]

Volkus has Vantage, though that is in a bunch of the killzones

Bheta Decima has the evil fucking water

and then the close quarter killzones

[raven meteor]

I was deeply confused by this too
Apparently Killteam assumes that most guns have a range of 'yes' at killteam scales and only apply Range to weapons with notably short range

[wide veldt]

fair enough

okay NOW ive read enough of the rules i can go look at the teams

im not reading the full rules for every terrain upgrade kit rn lmao

[atomic apex]

very fair

I also usually just read up on it when it comes up haha

[wide veldt]

v cool you can just drop "full of tyranid" like

on top of anythign else

tyranid infested tomb world sounds fucking awesome narratively

[atomic apex]

any teams you're particularly interested in already?

[wide veldt]

theres a couple!

[atomic apex]

oh Murderwing and Insidiants are on waha now, nice
I should take a peek at those

[wide veldt]

the more tactical human ones, kommandos, brood brothers, stealth battlesuits

[atomic apex]

Stealthsuits are funky

[floral herald]

Insidiants look dope

Fun middleweight aura team

Murderwing looks fucking crazy

[atomic apex]

oh Murderwing is 6 model, nice

maybe I'll try them out sometime