Warhammer and Such

[vital barn]

there's I Can't Believe It's Not Bjorn

[pastel rampart]

Again, they'd have to appear in 30k first and not backported from 40k. So Cypher doesn't count; Penny's example of Eidolon would count because he first shows up in 30k, same with Kor Phaeron.

[paper bluff]

Yeah that is geigor fell-hand he was in the prospero box

[vital barn]

"Geigor Fell-Hand", who looks exactly like Bjorn, has the same nickname as Bjorn and has the same lightning claw that Bjorn would later use

[tired cairn]

Why would they do this lmao

[vital barn]

but is not Bjorn because Bjorn is still a chump and gets given the dead Geigor's claw after prospero

[jaunty dawn]

A lot of cyphers presence in 30k is like. Guessing who’s actually the 40k guy

[paper bluff]

We could argue for a few of the custodians

Cause apparently a good bit of them were around for thirty k

It's just that they're not named

[jaunty dawn]

I think even like the custodes have seperate characters for the two games

[paper bluff]

There's no character overlap between the tabletop games for custodians

[vital barn]

I don't think there are 30k custodes still alive

[jaunty dawn]

Valdor is in limbo

[paper bluff]

There are

[jaunty dawn]

Might be a cult leader

[vital barn]

over 90% of them died in the Heresy and there's no mention of any of the rest still existing other than maybe Valdor, who fucked off into nowhere

[paper bluff]

I remember a short story with one visiting the actual throne

[tepid stratus]

Shit we don't even know if Trajan was alive during the heresy or if he's from the post heresy generation of custodians

[vital barn]

Trajan is from significantly later

[tired cairn]

🤔 is the lack of these characters a weird artifact of GW not liking their gamelines to mix

[jaunty dawn]

Its been since before that became a big bugbear

[vital barn]

Valoris is also the 17th chief custodian and it's mentioned that custodes over a thousand are very rare

I really don't think they have heresy-era guys just hanging around

[tepid stratus]

Two different writing/design teams and all that

[paper bluff]

That's probably it, but it's weird for the fell handed guy since his 30K. Miniature and his 40K miniature would be completely different.

[jaunty dawn]

I think bjorn being a chump was already established

So they cant really make a non chump guy

And a chump wouldnt make a model appearance

[tired cairn]

They should make him a model that has chump stats and doesn't even get the character keyword. That would be funny

[paper bluff]

Yoooo I got an idea. Named female custodian who is the same person both games

[jaunty dawn]

Shes got a longer name in 40k

[tepid stratus]

I suppose at that age she'd be an emperor's eye in 40k

[jaunty dawn]

Replaces a random grey hunter. No change in stats

[sour sequoia]

Honestly would be down

[paper bluff]

Maybe yes, maybe no

[sour sequoia]

Hyperbole on my part but man I’m bored of the heresy

[tired cairn]

It's kind of surprising how many chaos guys survive all the way from the heresy to 40k even with warp time shenanigans and chaos juice

[sour sequoia]

We are at how many books now in pursuit of one good one

Every primarch come back for… ????

[paper bluff]

Let me get the chart...

[sour sequoia]

Guilliman and Lion aint done shit still

[tired cairn]

especially since I thought Chaos had an up-or-chaos-spawn system going on

[desert jay]

Guilliman definitely has done some shit

[sour sequoia]

I get we love grandpa but he doesn’t do shit in 30k beyond Be Deus Ex Machina

[desert jay]

Oh in 30k

[desert jay]

The Lion ain't really beating the allegations tho

[sour sequoia]

How many books end with “and then da first legion shows up and says its dark angels time and then they dark angel’d all over those guys”

[paper bluff]

Hey, most recently he said, "brother, we need to talk"

[sour sequoia]

Jaghatai Khan’t

Rogal Doesn’t

Fraudus Manus

[desert jay]

Sanguiniain't

[vital barn]

approximately 500

it happened in all three campaign books released for HH2e, consecutively

[paper bluff]

my most wild 40k it'll never happen tinfoil hat idea is lorgar redeemed

[tired cairn]

Perhaps we shouldn't expect much from a supreme duelist at the strategic layer lol

[sour sequoia]

Hand to god we should endtimes this shit

Needs it more than fantasy

[desert jay]

Yeah but also even as a legion Dark Angels just kinda still sit in their corner doing DA things after Lion's return

[vital barn]

they levelled Cthonia with a bunch of imperial fists still on it, showed up at Terra to rescue the remnants of 200 custodes who were getting their dicks ripped off by the Mechanicum and then they did something in the third one, can't remember what

[paper bluff]

I am interested how the dark angels are handling the lion coming back.Because aside from the fallen/redeemed, he's not really interacted with a lot of them bookwise

[desert jay]

"Some of the Fallen got redeemed" Okay most of the Imperium didn't even know the Fallen existed due to DA's secrecy

[raven meteor]

To be fair, them being seperated by
10000 years
Feels like another natural barrier
You can only bust out so many stasis pods before you start making yourself look bad

[desert jay]

"Behold our new guys, the Risen" "Why are they called that?" "No reason"

[tired cairn]

They felt bad before and then Dad came back and chastised them. So now they feel extra bad and don't even know what to do with their life anymore

[raven meteor]

I know Custodes are Actually Immortal but most other things are not correct

[tired cairn]

Yeah, CSM characters are the only reasonable ones really

[paper bluff]

Unleashed some DAoT murder bots for the 3rd

[vital barn]

where was the third one set again?

I admit I skipped that part of 2e

[wide veldt]

Btw is the bit where one of the primarchs is gonna need to get on the golden throne real

[sour sequoia]

It was literally built for magnus

[vital barn]

heavily hinted that was what Magnus was for in 30k

[wide veldt]

LMAOOO REALLY

HE WAS GONNA FORCE MAGNUS IN IT???

[paper bluff]

Hh on galatia 9th book

[vital barn]

but these days the idea that you'd shove one of them on the throne to replace Emps is kind of silly

[wide veldt]

Oh I assumed Emps was just burning out

/escaping into the warp

[vital barn]

Thramas was Black Book 9, I'm talking about the HH2e campaign books that were less good

[paper bluff]

Okay so technically

[vital barn]

Emps has been about to blow a fuse for a lot of editions now

like many 40k things it's permanently ten minutes into the future

[paper bluff]

It's really more of a set point in the warp for the physical body, not really any sort of life extension device

And without magnus, blowing a hole in the webway, it would have allowed magnus to freely traverse the warp rather than have to be used to stop the demons from coming in on terra

His body would have been there on the golden throne.While his mind would have been free to explore the great ocean

Which for magnus actually pretty good deal

If anything the 1000 sons got in the way of
The emperor's vision for magnus

[wide veldt]

Unfortunately Magnus did a zoom call from hell

[vital barn]

in general I find "is the emperor going to die or ascend or get up or whatever" the least interesting plot thread you could possibly pursue

[paper bluff]

See that's where Lorgar would be interesting!

[sour sequoia]

I think just out and out killing him is the only usable option but it would make a lot of idiots really upset

[vital barn]

because as soon as you get into Megagod Slapfight territory it removes all the stakes of the actual war part of the wargame

honestly same when Angron or whoever is doing backflips in space and cutting battleships in half, it's like the bad back half of every xianxia novel

eventually you escalate so far it stops mattering at all

[paper bluff]

Oh right just remembered. The magnus with know as demon magnus isn't actually all of magnus

So putting him on throne wouldn't work I'd bet

[vital barn]

also as someone who at least briefly played Word Bearers, I absolutely hate the idea of "what if we made the guy whose entire arc was growing balls by becoming evil a nice guy again"

like, he is the worst possible primarch you could apply that to except maybe Angron

I would believe "we brought Horus back and he's nice now" before that

[paper bluff]

Nah nah nah. I'm not saying nice

[jaunty dawn]

Emperor comes back and splits imperium in half with the segmentum solar now order zombies and everyone else is like oh no our life is a lie

[paper bluff]

I'm saying he's the absolute same bastard But for the emperor and betraying his legion

[desert jay]

Got curious how many editions this has been, looked to Lexicanium, found a bit on it with citations from the 5e rulebook (pg 129) and White Dwarf 342 (pg 37), both back in 2008

[vital barn]

it removes literally all the character development Lorgar had, and he was basically the only primarch to get any at all

let the manaical dark preacher be evil

[paper bluff]

Peter turbo also got character development

[floral herald]

Not a model but Kor Phaeron had art and lore in 40K before HH iirc

[vital barn]

he got like two scenes of bitching, so yeah he's second

they attempted to give Russ an arc but failed miserably

[floral herald]

Would Constantine Valdor count? Though I think he only exists in 40K in alluded novel form

[jaunty dawn]

I think eidolon is mentioned pre horus rising as effectively leading the emperors children

But like the character expansion and wargame existence comes in 30k

[raven meteor]

The emperor's dessicated skeleton disintegrates entirely unassisted before many panicking custodians very eyes but the astronomican keeps going

[jaunty dawn]

But valdor would count if he got a model yeah

[vital barn]

the Emperor's Children are perhaps the only legion to have actively gotten less interesting the more is written about them

partly because their HH appearances very rapidly become the Fabius Bile Show

and we already have tons of him

they're pretty fun in the first couple of HH books

[paper bluff]

The astronomicon has been a separate device. More the problem is
The demons that would start pouring out of the webway portal

[desert jay]

Counterpoint, what if he's "redeemed" (rejoins the Loyalist Imperium) without being "nice" and starts running the Ministratum in his image and it's not-good-at-all

[vital barn]

bah

[jaunty dawn]

I think the sisters of battle would just murc him

Is the thing

[paper bluff]

That's what i've been saying

[vital barn]

that sounds fucking awful, quite frankly

[desert jay]

Fair

[vital barn]

I don't think a single Sisters player or Word Bearers player would like that one bit, it defeats the fundamental point of both factions

[brittle salmon]

also lucius the eternally boring is there

[vital barn]

Lorgar turned away from the Emperor to Chaos and came into his own because of it, same for his legion

he's not going to turn back

[paper bluff]

Why when there are repentia? Wouldn't one of the sons of the emperor coming back to his light Seeking redemption be in their wheelhouse?

[desert jay]

Lucius is just there for a good time (death murder)

[vital barn]

"I spent ten thousand years in my tower becoming the archpriest of chaos but ten minutes ago I decided this was stupid, pack it in lads"

yeah no

[deft crest]

I'm pretty happy with Voidscarred so far (book not the killteam but i'm going to get them soon)

-# gay gay homosexual gay

[jaunty dawn]

Killing guys who take over the church for their own aims is their whole deal

[vital barn]

also true, and he's still a useless fucker even back then

wins zero fights

[brittle salmon]

He's bloody awful at killing though :p

[brittle salmon]

You do realise there are crimes the sisters do just outright kill for, right

[vital barn]

the Horus Heresy has also introduced approximately infinite guys who are The Best Duelists Ever and thus retroactively made Lucius like C tier even in his own legion

[paper bluff]

Counterpoint. I just think it would be neat

[jaunty dawn]

Its also like repentia are kinda the exception because other people get turned into flagellants etc

[brittle salmon]

Unfortunately I gotta disagree boss

[desert jay]

Well that's where the "death" part comes in, it's his own

[wide veldt]

Also lorgar can’t step outside of his tower

Without getting the shit beaten out of him by a giant bird

So

[vital barn]

there's a guy called Akurduana who gets introduced absolutely chumping the entire Iron Hands elite to the point Ferrus duels him and he lasts more than like, one move

[vital barn]

this is total fanon, by the way

that story was set during the Scouring

[raven meteor]

We also don't really know what sins repentia get put in the hood for
Sisters that flee get turned into Mortifiers iirc so Repentia are probably like
'Didnt weep enough before a holy relic'

[vital barn]

Lorgar is currently out and about doing chaos things post-Great Rift, we just haven't seen much of them yet

[wide veldt]

Fair

I assume he’s still being hounded by Birdo tho

[vital barn]

no mention of that, but admittedly these are not long lore blurbs

[jaunty dawn]

I think lorgar should appear surfing on a giant flaming book

[wide veldt]

Yeah I was gonna say no mention kinda means jack shit in 40k from what I’ve gathered

90% of people were last mentioned 20 years ago :p

Since it’s a primarch I’m just gonna assume he’s still doing what he was last mentioned to be doing

[past sphinx]

he just kinda

won

no need for more conflict

[paper bluff]

Shit on me all you want. Guilliman talking to Logar about the apparent divinity of the emperor and Lorgar talking about how he saw it the whole time would be cool in 40k IMO

[vital barn]

there are three consecutive books about how the relationship between those two went from rocky to catastrophically ruined to eternal murder-on-sight vendetta

[raven meteor]

Now I DO think the idea of some subset of CSM turning face and trying to support the Imperium or at least not chaos again is fascinating but not the domain of a primarch and probably not the domain of any mainline 40k media because not much tends to meaningfully get twisted or changed in that near as I can tell

[jaunty dawn]

Its okay lorgar can capture gulliman and start monolgueing

[past sphinx]

CSM turning face instead of just becoming pirates is uhh

well

"yes dad i will abandon this rock and roll lifestyle to become an orthodox monk"

[wide veldt]

Tbh I think that would start a small space marine civil war

[jaunty dawn]

But yeah gulliman is pretty mad abt calth n all

[wide veldt]

Between acceptance and “kill those fucking guys now”

[vital barn]

across the 40 years of 40k content we have gotten a pretty fucking good idea of what Repentance looks like for followers of chaos

it is "we beat you with this huge mace and you die" at best

[wide veldt]

Yeah I was gonna say I assume you get big murdered

[vital barn]

like, you can't do this arc without decisively establishing the nice friendly cuddly Gulliman Imperium as distinct from the entity it's been in the entire rest of the lore

[wide veldt]

And maybe the sisters find an extra special monstrosity to make CSM into

[brittle salmon]

well it's that or serve eternally as a Blackshield until you die

[paper bluff]

That is the story of the anchorite dreadnought tho

[wide veldt]

Anyway id rather chaos get more love as it exists now

Than any of this

Since it is… weirdly anemic in places

[jaunty dawn]

The anchorite had the benefit of being discovered by a cult who was into it

[raven meteor]

Okay but
Seeing that happen another way would be interesting lol
In fact we have seen it happen another way
In Owlcat Rogue Trader your PC can get people to just
Turn away from the Chaos Gods
And that's cool
But as I said not the domain of mainline 40k because for the most part people just shoot eachother with big guns and growl in that

[wide veldt]

“Could we flesh out the culture of the CSM legions more fellas”
“Huh? Yeah sure here’s the demon womb have fun with that”

[paper bluff]

long con lorgar

[vital barn]

Rogue Traders and Necromunda are both the magical exception zones where you get to put one of everyone in a room

[paper bluff]

"You are divine. I will make you into my imagine of a god"

[raven meteor]

Anyhow I don't see this being a very productive convo, and people have already gotten annoyed by it I think

[wide veldt]

Rogue Trader the game is also one of the least likely things to ever become canon

As a sidenote

Considering there are multiple endings where the Koronus expanse successfully cedes from the Imperium

Which I feel probably wouldn’t go over well lmao

[past sphinx]

the imperium bulldozes a rouge traders private empire in a matter of hours yeah

though the expanse is like

[wide veldt]

And even then it’s v CRPG grey box of what actually happened

[past sphinx]

turbo fucked no matter what really

[raven meteor]

Mhm! From the very start I prefaced all this with 'I don't expect anything like this to exist in the core canon of the series'
And am still saying that

[wide veldt]

Well there’s reasons why it ‘works’ in Rogue Trader

Namely a ||Greater Ctan Shard cutting off imperium warp travel||

[wide veldt]

Yeah lol it’s basically a funny what if side story

Okay well

Everything up to the ending is debatesble

[raven meteor]

Anyhow-
I'm excited to run more sisters soon 😌
I'm givin my Bloody Rose army a second go some time soon, against Night Lords
Made some changes based on my last match with them, but it was minor
Which is honestly good I think
I don't feel the need to rework my army much, just do their Thing more intelligently

[jaunty dawn]

Im pretty sure the expanse is in imperium nihilus aside from already being on the far periphery

[brittle salmon]

it is yes

[jaunty dawn]

So idk if the imperium would actually be in the position to do anything about it even aside from. Other mitigating factors

Also not really somewhere that seceding is problematically consequential tbh

Not that that would stop the imperium normally

[raven meteor]

Yeah the ending slide for Iconoclast RT basically says ||that with the Maelstrom AND the baby C'tan it's basically impossible for any ships you don't want to get there to get there||
||They do manage to take you out with said C'tan though||

[raven meteor]

Anyway-

Hospitaller (60pts): Bolt pistol, Chirugeon's tools
Hospitaller (85pts): Sanctified Amulet, Bolt pistol, Chirugeon's tools
Hospitaller (60pts): Bolt pistol, Chirugeon's tools

10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)

10x Celestian Sacresants (140pts)
10x Celestian Sacresants (140pts)
10x Celestian Sacresants (140pts)
5x Seraphim Squad (80pts)
10x Sisters Novitiate Squad (100pts)
10x Sisters Novitiate Squad (100pts)
3x Paragon Warsuits (210pts)
3x Paragon Warsuits (210pts)
Immolator (115pts): Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta
Immolator (115pts): Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta```
The basic idea is to rocket the Sacresants into No Man's Land using Champions Of Faith's rule and the Triumph's speed boost, and they hold it down 
The split sisters hold the back line/go forward with the Immolators and provide extra killing power
Novitiates make it harder for the other guys to do board control before the Sacresants arrive regardless of who goes first

Since Sacresants are pretty tanky and have bad guns they seem great for stuff like Cleanse and Establish Locus

My last opponent, who is pretty experienced, DID beat me on points but I handled the fighting well and they were astonished how tanky the Sacresants were
So I think I just need to like
Think about objective play and victory points more, and it'll pop

[past sphinx]

i lie to myself every game

this time ill play the objective and not hunt for kills

THE ENEMY CANNOT SCORE POINTS IF THE ENEMY IS DEAD

[paper bluff]

Basically my strategy when I play knights

[rocky shale]

Having a 200pt squad do actions at all is rough. You can't charge after doing the action either.

[raven meteor]

Well, the idea is that once they're in No Man's Land, they wouldn't be doing much charging
They fight back scary enough and are hard to kill so they're objective zone bullies

But yeah, as I think about it there are some problems
I keep forgetting you can't act while engaged
So for Doing Actions there are better candidates

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[raven meteor]

But engage on all fronts would like them

[rocky shale]

You want dirt cheap stuff for actions

Split sisters squads for example are like 52 points effectively

[raven meteor]

The Seraphim is indeed there for enemy deployment zone locuses

[mental birch]

Bigger issue is ataisjt q more experienced enemy

It will die

[wide veldt]

It kills me how incongruous with the rest of the settings orks are

Like the setting has gotten more and more serious

And the Orks are still same as it ever was

Look at these motherfuckers rocking up in their…. Rukkatrukk squigbuggies

[raven meteor]

Well, this friend of mine wasn't very used to playing against sisters, but DOES go to like
Tournaments
So I'd say he's probably the most experienced person I'm likely to be playing
Considering I don't plan on really going to places with lots of Real Killers and asking a rando to kick my shit in
Basically I'm trying to improve my gameplan and army to perform well Amongst My Friends Who Play 40k

[mental birch]

Yeah is more that this surviving for more than a turn

Without another omg distraction leans too heavily on exploiting a knowledge gap

Thst will close as your opppnent's calibrate the correct ampunt of firepoeer

[rocky shale]

600 pts of T3 1W 3+/4++/5+++ is basically a stat check for how much volume fire someone has

[mental birch]

Feels like a stat check of is your army actually 'good'

[raven meteor]

I feel it's important to note that when lead by a character and with champions of faith, they also get -1 to wound and -1 to hit against them
So their effective toughness is higher than 3

They really did endure quite a lot in that game

[rocky shale]

Ehhhh not really? Most armies aren't really building around having volume S4 AP1 shooting in the age of victrix and variant terminator shenanigans

[rocky shale]

Where is the - 1 to wound coming from?

I only see the hit strat

And that's fight phase only

[raven meteor]

Being The Unit It Is

[rocky shale]

Oh lol I missed that

[raven meteor]

😭

[rocky shale]

The - 1 to hit is fight phase only though, and I'm gonna be trying to kill this melee blob at range 99% of the tome if I'm not world eaters

[raven meteor]

It really fucked things up for the many 'tons of attack chaff clear' guns that got shot at them

[rocky shale]

Yeah no they're very tough

[raven meteor]

They survived having the Yncarne dropped on them, which was very funny

[wide veldt]

What the fuck do you mean there was a psychic alien who hired mech mercenaries to defend the timestream

[rocky shale]

Okay shiruken cannons/heavy bolters do some work into them

[wide veldt]

What are you talking about 40k

[brittle salmon]

it's peak

[rocky shale]

The yncarne isn't what it used to be lmaooo

[raven meteor]

Heavy bolters do seem like the play for handling things in their weight class, yeah
God I love heavy bolters

[wide veldt]

The crazy part is that said cyborg psychics alien HASNT EVEN BEEN PLOT RELEVANT

HE WAS JUST CHILLING

[rocky shale]

For 160pts 6 windriders with shiruken cannons blast through 8 celestians on average

They get lethals and RR hits which is quite nice

And damage 2punches through the fnp

[floral herald]

Well, he's super dead

[rocky shale]

The key seems to be just wounding them on 2s (3s with the -1)

[wide veldt]

I mean yes

[floral herald]

It's cool that they have been expanding the tiny story from the 5e core book

[rocky shale]

40k writers are allowed to just put things in books as long as they're irrelevant lol

[wide veldt]

Lmao

Real

I kinda love it?

I love whenever the game just looks at you and goes “you don’t know shit”

[mental birch]

Might be tau bias then lol

[raven meteor]

Anyhow- I do think the 3-block of Sacresants is Worth as a hold your ground sturdy back bone sort of arrangement considering I've been told in the Sisters spaces I've been in that 3-blocks of Sacresants are what winning Sisters tournament armies have as a sturdy hold your ground back bone arrangement
They probably don't do it as good as other units out there but they Do Do It

[mental birch]

I have s7 missiles

Is what i lean on to bully them off ovjdctives

[rocky shale]

For that detachment I think it has legs yeah

[mental birch]

So like in my experience they're annoying but solvable

[raven meteor]

So I think the Road To Victory, at least for my purposes (gaming with my friends who got me into the hobby) is more a question of how to leverage that to acquire a win, rather than throw it out and find something else
So hopefully this upcoming fight will elucidate me some on that matter
I really think it's a question of 'what side missions do I take and how do I do them good'
Engage on all fronts will probably be pretty decent? But unsure if it's the best take

[rocky shale]

You aren't running tactical

?

[paper bluff]

then conquered 100s of systems

[quaint compass]

That's chilling

[raven meteor]

I am doing fixed because drawin random cards out of a deck seems like it will give me a headache fast

[rocky shale]

There are very few strategies that make fixed objectives work well IMO

[paper bluff]

I think it might be a case of crunching all the numbers and then went "wait. I gotta do this thing. Or else existence is fucked"

The infinity machine crunched all the numbers and then went damn it

Gotta save all of existence

[broken dew]

don't the black templars have the cacodominus skull as a trophy and it's still screaming

[floral herald]

Yeah it is (or was?) a relic for em

[rocky shale]

Learning to play tactical is basically just part of learning your army unless you're something funky like windrider host who can deep strike bikes all over the board every round to score fixed cleanse and behind perfectly

[floral herald]

I'm not sure if they can still take it

It has a model though

[broken dew]

yeah

[past sphinx]

is that a navigator skull?

[broken dew]

Cacodominus skull

[raven meteor]

That sucks, and is annoying! But very well

[past sphinx]

"The Cacodominus was the name given to an extremely powerful alien-cyborg Psyker "

thats warhammer alright

[mild glen]

[Path to Glory]
Do we think it's worthwhile to have a Bannerblade leading a regiment so it can take Sentinels and Ballistae?

[raven meteor]

I've been wanting to do stuff with my friends that isn't just RPG for a while and I'm sort of vibing with this
But also don't want to just get my shit beat every time I show up on TTS

[vital barn]

a lot of people have screamy skull relics, theirs is just cooler

the Mechanicus has Nikola Tesla's skull somehow

despite the fact that he was cremated, as I understand it

[broken dew]

it did some shit, the black templars killed it, it dying killed like millions of astropaths and psykers and whatever

[rocky shale]

It's not that you can't take fixed when you think the match up will allow it, but for example taking fixed behind enemy lines when you only have one deep strike unit is gonna be rough

[vital barn]

it has no visible cybernetics but launches doom lightning at anything near it when held up regardless

[broken dew]

average day in the imperium

[paper bluff]

I do hope that dreadblade is kairos' ultimate hater

[rocky shale]

If you have a bunch of uppy downy deep strike stuff, locus and behind are viable fixed options

Or bring it down vs vehicle spam

[paper bluff]

They definitely probably are because they would have been fighting against kairos for unknowable kalpas what with guarding the timesteam

[floral herald]

Aha, doesn't seem to have had rules since 8e

[raven meteor]

My setup for that game was Cleanse and Engage On All Fronts, and while I am uncertain if Cleanse is the right play Engage felt pretty doable?

[broken dew]

whenever i think of fucked up shit in 40k i always end up remembering the Pale Wasting

Inquisitorial investigation has discovered that much of the extant evidence relating to this threat has been censored or purposely destroyed, but there are contradictory indications which describe the nature of the threat as both a "star-spawned plague" that swept away scores of Human-settled worlds and as "nightmare engines" slaughtering whole sectors.

[paper bluff]

Ragdan xenocides, war of the false primarch, nova terra interregnum, take your pick

[paper bluff]

Hey now the nova marines have a plaque saying that they served honorably during the pale wasting so they fought something

[broken dew]

11 full chapters got eaten and the Novamarines supposedly were there but they have zero history about it and the only evidence they were involved at all is a singular stelae

[rocky shale]

How much were you scoring on those?

[broken dew]

yeah literally the only evidence of there even being a fight is a single plaque the novamarines have

The Novamarines' own chronicles are curiously empty of any reference to the conflict, which makes one of their earliest recorded great battle honours remain one of the most shadowed and mysterious.

[past sphinx]

i have been digging around to find a good size for a dreadnaught banner (this strange woman who lives in my house and eats my food in making one for me) and found an ancient forum thread on exactly that and the VERY FIRST COMMENT was "they can be any size dont worry about it, its your dudes!" and it warms my heart that that specific bit of dogshit advice is truely generation in the hobby

[raven meteor]

I can't recall, not very much on Cleanse but a fair bit on engage
I don't think there was ever a point Engage wasn't at least Getting Me Points
But I sort of dropped the ball on Cleanse by just forgetting to do actions
Which is why I said at the start of this that getting it into my skull that Doing All Your Missions Is Important is the main barrier to success

[broken dew]

i do find the idea of a like

battle nobody remembers, even the only guys to survive it

[rocky shale]

Cleanse is rough because it requires 2 actions per turn

[broken dew]

and all they have to show for it at all is like

a plaque that said they did a good job

[rocky shale]

Engage can get you some points but getting the 4 is rough

[broken dew]

The only evidence for the Novamarines meeting this threat is an ancient stelae relating to this conflict in the Imperial Palace itself. This artefact praises the Chapter most highly and records them compellingly as having "By their mortal sacrifice and unmatched valour unmade that which cannot die and so preserved the most holy realm of Mankind."

tell me that isn't funny

[rocky shale]

And you're really gonna want the 4 as often as possible

Some deployments will make that easier than others

[wide veldt]

Yeah this is great

[broken dew]

we were totally there guys

[wide veldt]

I assume they wiped their minds but then forgotting actually is like

Unbelievably funny

[broken dew]

look at our congratulatory plaque

see right there it says we fought the Pale Wasting

everyone else died

[raven meteor]

Mhm

[rocky shale]

The tactical objectives are nice because it occasionally throws you an easy one

[paper bluff]

That's basically the existence of the red hunter's chapter.

They work with the inquisition and get regularly mind wiped

[raven meteor]

I will look into it more
Admittedly part of my apprehension is that the secondary mission deck is easily the most annoying part of 40k's TTS table

[paper bluff]

Can you imagine the existential horror of being a space marine and your fifty first dates every once in a while

You get in a land raider, and there's a service role of various missions and your name is next to of them. You served in some squad, and you do not know your brothers.
Are you the person you were before? Aside from your honors, how do you even know how old you are?

[desert jay]

Feeling your forehead add realizing you have a new pip

[mild glen]

The new Battle-Brother seems talented. Strong. You should begin training him to take command of his own squad. He's ready, despite being so new. As soon as this operation is over...

The new Battle-Brother seems talented.

[wide veldt]

As a sidenote

Seeing the Tau Manta’s 2100 point ass not being legends has to be one of the funniest fucking things ever

What do you mean this guy still gets rules

[mental birch]

Still in production lol

[wide veldt]

I mean as it should be

The manta is my god

So question

Are titans of either side actually viable

[desert jay]

Define viable

[wide veldt]

Like not necessarily tournament but like…. LGS game tier

Can you take your titans to an LGS and not get made of fun of

Yknow what that’s a good marker for what I generally mean

Like not hyper comp environments like tournaments but still like

[rocky shale]

I would probably refuse to play a game against someone with a titan

[wide veldt]

Not pulling hella punches and you’ll see meta builds sometimes

[rocky shale]

It's not fun

[wide veldt]

Yeah?

[rocky shale]

It's less fun than here are my 6 rogal dorns

[desert jay]

People rarely play >2000 pt formats except "for fun" games so anything at 2100 pts is gone right off

[wide veldt]

I know it’s a weird question but can you describe like

Why it’s not fun

Oh lmao can knights not even be run in 2000 points really

Sorry I meant knigjts

[desert jay]

Unless it's titan vs titan it's the knight problem but worse

[wide veldt]

To be clear

I always confuse knights and titans

My b

I mean knights

Titans don’t need to viable they’re

A bit

They’re there to sit on your shelf and pull out for a laugh, like a manta

[rocky shale]

Knights are fine, they're like 400pts max each

[desert jay]

Imperial/Chaos Knights and various knight-like units are viable and you won't really be laughed at

[rocky shale]

Having a 1400pt warhound titan is dumb

[wide veldt]

Yeah my bad knights and titans just blend together in my head

Like the kill Lupercal guys are knights right

[desert jay]

Look you preceded your question with talking about the Manta so everyone assumed you were talking the 1000+ pt shit

[wide veldt]

Titans are the city sized cunt

No no again

By b

[pastel rampart]

Titans, as in "actual factual titans and not knights" are really the purview of Apocalypse games where people just throw thousands of points onto the board and get 1 round done in 8 hours.

[desert jay]

Some players will resent knight lists and knight players though, because it can be an anti-tank check

[rocky shale]

Those are titans

[wide veldt]

Oh really

Damn

How big are knights

[rocky shale]

The biggest titan is the goofy chapel on its back one

[wide veldt]

That one I’m aware of as being like

[rocky shale]

But that's not a whole city

[wide veldt]

The manta of the imperium

In terms of stupid horseshit that is worth more than most armies

And is NOT going to be good even in formats where it’s legal

[desert jay]

Useful enough scale comparison

Or were you asking about titans this time?

[tired cairn]

A Titan will probably lose on points in a very dumb game. They are for Epic games

(well, for epic games as much as they are for games, ha)

[wide veldt]

Oh yeah I was actually asking about knights with that

And WOW that’s

A LOT smaller

Than I was picturing

Every time I saw them on poorhammer

[desert jay]

I mean that's still pretty big! Lookit the little marine in the shot

[pastel rampart]

It's still one of the largest models GW produces.

[desert jay]

Also FYI the Stompa (bottom right) is maligned as having like the weakest rules of any of the knight-scale units

Everything else in the bottom row is fine

[rocky shale]

It's so bad

Wraithknights are like barely something

But the stompa is garbage

[desert jay]

Wraithknights are currently suffering for the sins of index Aeldari

Because they were really good in summer 2023

And have since been put in the time-out corner, where they will remain for the rest of the edition

[rocky shale]

They didn't even have a rule that was busted, dev wounds as a whole was just busted and they have the biggest dev wound gun

[desert jay]

Well the army rule also helped but yeah

[raven meteor]

I do find it funny that the Tau Titan is actually just a spaceship capable of orbital operation
'why would we make a walker that big'
'that's crazy'

[desert jay]

Just the general state of dev wounds + index Aeldari army rule + biggest dev wound gun

[desert jay]

Unfortuntely the bit is ruined by the existence of the Taunar

[pastel rampart]

Which people have designed and printed and it's like, 3ft tall.

[desert jay]

Every so often some 40k-enthsued parent makes a titan cosplay for their small child

[past sphinx]

wait hang on

[paper bluff]

every once in a while I'm reminded of the Spruehound build

What a madlad

[wide veldt]

Is it always bad or just this edition?

Also

Watching codex compliant

It’s REALLY funny

That there was a grot so lucky in 2e that he had an UNMODIFIABLE 2+ save

[rocky shale]

He's still got it

[wide veldt]

holy shit he’s real again???

[rocky shale]

yes

[rocky shale]

I havent played previous editions but I dont recall hearing it be good in 9th

The stompa is 800 points

Its basically impossible to make an 800pt model both good and not completely miserable to play against

[wide veldt]

Wow okay yeah uh

Maybe

He

Shouldn’t be 800 points?

Just an idea

[raven meteor]

Vastly overpriced for-show models seem like they're just an inevitability

[rocky shale]

The issue is that its T14, 2+/6++, 30W with a shitload of guns (and 22 transport capacity) so if it was cheap enough to be viable, it would just be a gigantic stat check every game

If its too expensive then its just a goofy meme pick

Its better that it exists as a painting project with rules for lulz

[floral herald]

Yeah

The Stompa is in a rough space because it's more in the weight class of a warhound than a knight

It's a huge model too

[wide veldt]

I guess I would rather it like

Be 2100 points

And be just apeshit ridiculous

See: tau

[rocky shale]

The warhound titan is 1100pts

[floral herald]

Well, the Manta is a Warlordlike

[rocky shale]

It is closer to a warhound than a manta

[desert jay]

If a Warhound and a Stompa both show up to a 2k or 3k point game you will probably have a fine time

[floral herald]

It's just awkward for these Adeptus Titanicus/Epic models to fit into normal 40k so they're mostly for hype moments and aura

[rocky shale]

its like stompa/warhound/revenant titan are all in a similar weight class of 800-1100pts

[floral herald]

They're really meant for 5,000-10,000 point Apocalypse games or gimmicky Bighammer Adeptus Titanicus

[wide veldt]

Are there still rules for that stuff?

[mental birch]

Yes?

[rocky shale]

Apoc rules havent been updated for 10th iirc but there's plenty of fanmade ones

[floral herald]

Titan Battles are just rare because they're logistically hard and helllllla expensive

[floral herald]

And there's not a ton of rules to it besides the big ass models

[rocky shale]

IMO a lot of the titan models look kinda bad because they start lacking detail

Like a giant armor flat panel starts to look boring unless you have insane freehand

[pastel rampart]

That and Titans and other Epic models are just ill-suited for 40k in general.

If you want big stompy robots you play Adeptus Titanicus or Epic, basically.

[floral herald]

They're so awkward (most of the time? I haven't read the 10e ones closely haha)

Big range minimums mostly mean they just kind of sit in the back and evaporate models

[pastel rampart]

They can be fun to paint and look cool but you have to be okay with the fact that you might only use these like, a handful of times.

[floral herald]

Yeah it's an art project with a codified way to show it off more than a game piece

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

Now with everything I said, am I going to print out a warhound anyway? Yes.

[floral herald]

(Depending on how you look at it this is kinda Warhammer in general but its extra true for titans)

[pastel rampart]

But I am not right in the head, so.

[floral herald]

Honestly I think printing is the best way to do titans

The solid cast resin parts are so heavy haha

[pastel rampart]

And often warped because QA ffor FW doesn't exist.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/udated-armorcast-style-wardog-titan but yeah this is on the docket

[past sphinx]

ive printed 3 titans

not pleasant

in my hater arc of this model

chunky little greebles all over

[wide veldt]

Man I said it earlier but holy SHIT the green tide is an insane detachment

Sorry actually, misread which one I was loooking at

War Horde

Is really good

[rocky shale]

Isnt that just the generic one?

Looks alright

[wide veldt]

Yeah

Also okay

Turtle

Can you explain devastating wounds to me

[rocky shale]

2 of the strats are kinda nothing but the crits on 5s is good and im not enough of an ork player to know if 2cp fight on death is worth it

[wide veldt]

Because…. Got, they’re the same as lethal, they’re an upgrade to lethal

I get that

[rocky shale]

No not really at all

[wide veldt]

What is all this stuff about mortal wounds - oh

Okay

Can…. Can you explain it

[rocky shale]

Lethal and sustained are on critical hits
Dev wounds is on a critical wound roll

If you get a crit wound on a dev wounds weapon, then the wounds just happen, ignoring armor and invuln saves (but not feel no pain)

[wide veldt]

Ooooohhhh shit

I

Yeah okay missing the crit wounds thing

I was reading Dev wounds as also on a critical hit

[rocky shale]

So if you get a lethal hit, then that hit cant be devestating also because you skip rolling to wound

[wide veldt]

Like, yknow when you just glaze over something cause you kinda assume you know what it says

[rocky shale]

its the second word in the ability (lethal HITS, dev WOUNDS)

same with sustained hits

[wide veldt]

I saw critical and went oh okay I know that mechanic

:3

I’m…. Silly

Genuinely appreciate the explanation

[rocky shale]

np

[wide veldt]

So lethal is more of an armor piercing thing, like you want it on lower strength higher damage/attacks

[rocky shale]

Lethal is good when you're not likely to wound

[wide veldt]

And dev wounds is more of “this fucker makes 7 2+ saves, get him”

[rocky shale]

Sustained is good when you are

[thin ibex]

War hord is super strong and plays to orks strengths

[wide veldt]

Yeah like Orks seems incredible leaning into their baseline melee bastard stuff

[rocky shale]

Dev wounds is basically always good but harder to reliably get (there are basically no "crit wounds on 5s" abilities)

[wide veldt]

Ball ball

[thin ibex]

Lethals = good when your str is lower than their toughness
Sustained = good when your Str is equal or greater than their toughness
Dev wounds = good when they have excellent saves or you have low AP

[raven meteor]

Lethal skips wound if you roll 6 on hit, devastating skips save if you roll 6 on wound
Basically

[wide veldt]

Idk if I’m allowed to say this given that it’s been a bit since I read the whole rulebook but

Man again it feels like warhammmer rules are NOT written for comprehension

[thin ibex]

I mean, you're allowed to say it however much you want, it's your perspective

[wide veldt]

Like so many of these I have to read so insanely close to understand what the fuck it means

Well

Yeah

But I mean moreso acknowledging it’s entirely possible I’m way off base

Sorry lol

But yeah

[rocky shale]

There's only a handful of keywords but they do have fairly specific execution

For some

dev wounds is basically the most complicated

[wide veldt]

Fair yeah im glad to hear it IS the most complicated

[rocky shale]

And thats mostly because they had to rewrite it to be not extremely broken

i.e. start of edition

where the dev wounds would spill over between models

[wide veldt]

Ohhhh okay

Yeah that’s a lil banana

[desert jay]

And I meantioned index Aeldari earlier and dev wounds, it was extra broken for them because they could hit-confirm by spending 6s from their fate dice pool

So each game you'd have 2 or 3 dev wounds on-demand

[wide veldt]

Jesus

[rocky shale]

2-3 instances of 2d6 damage, which you could use your other fate dice on to avoid a low roll

[desert jay]

Yeah!

[rocky shale]

Im sad I never ran one

[desert jay]

So like 9-10 wounds

[wide veldt]

Wh

What the fuck

[rocky shale]

I only messed around with normal wraithguard when any time you shot at them they could shoot back at any unit they could see

[rocky shale]

normal ork rule

[wide veldt]

I think I might actually be an Orks player? These are the most insanely fun rules ever what the hell

[rocky shale]

The key thing about being an ork player is you have to come to terms with the fact that sometimes your master plan will just eat shit on a bad charge roll or the fact that you hit shots on like 5+

[desert jay]

Oh wait I forgot the Farseer's rule in index, where once/turn you could turn one fate die into a 6 before using the die. So y'know, even more guaranteed dev wounds

[rocky shale]

Yup

[wide veldt]

Also wow this edition they let hazardous stuff fire BEFORE blowing up, good for them

“Them” I say like I don’t love hazardous

[rocky shale]

You may like dread mob

You get Dat Button

[wide veldt]

yeeeeeeeah

I like it

😎

Also I think it’s really funny

[rocky shale]

Notably it says Mek unit, so anything a mek can attach to can press the button

[wide veldt]

Where other factions have detatchments rules that are like “oh in this scenario with these units get sustained hit-“

Orks get shit like “everyone gets sustained hits all the time moving on”

[thin ibex]

I played dread mob abs did more damage than my opponent. I had a blast

I did also wipe out like 2 terminator squad using killa kan rokkits

Did more damage to myself*

I killed and maimed many units

[rocky shale]

Other factions dont tend to get that since theyll have fancy weapons that already get sus1

Orks dont have a lot of keywords baseline

[wide veldt]

Ahhhh I see

LMAO

the tactical brigade orders having a chance of just fucking killing people for some reason???

Oh Dakka dakka dakka’s detatchment rule is

Kinda disappointing

[thin ibex]

It used to be sus hits 2 and was considered hella broken

[wide veldt]

Damn……

[thin ibex]

Still kinda wish it was

[wide veldt]

Orks can’t have shit for shooting

Even tho there’s a whole clan for it

[rocky shale]

the tactical brigade one has extremely good shooting

[thin ibex]

It's real hard to balance ork shooting tbh, cause they're shit at aiming but they shoot a lot. Which means if the dice gods are with you, you just do absurd amounts of work with shooting

[brittle salmon]

not "considered", "absolutely was"

[thin ibex]

I mean, considered isn't a tentative or open statement?

[brittle salmon]

the math on dakka dakka was astronomically stupid

[rocky shale]

sus2 was absolutely insane because when you hit on 5+ then 50% of your shots that were gonna hit anyways are now 2 extra shots

[wide veldt]

It seemed more melee heavy to me? I mean the one shooting order was admittedly great

[dense sedge]

Yeah it dominated tourneys for a bit

[brittle salmon]

i just need to drive the point home here

shit was nuts

[rocky shale]

The shooting order makes it work. You still bring melee stuff but it makes the shooting work.

[thin ibex]

The fix i want for orks is make zzap guns worth it again

Or at all

I dont think they've been worth for years

And multiple editions

I want my giant lazer that might hit one time in 5 rounds to have a dramatic effect

Also something that occurs to me, adhd Tangent, you can increase the damage on the deathstrike missile in crusade

Which is very silly

[wide veldt]

Tbh I think dred mob has most of what I want and I’ll just field flash gitz for fun

:p

[thin ibex]

I like dredd mob for orky shooting

[rocky shale]

This is a deffgun. A deffgun is held by a loota who gets to rr hits of 1, or full hits if in range of an objective. A deffgun often only hits on 6s normally, but is firing about 30 shots per 100pt unit. In more dakka, every shot that hits was actually now 3 shots.

It was insane

[wide veldt]

Oh… oh my fod

God

[rocky shale]

If you run lootas they can be led by a mek, which lets them press the button

[wide veldt]

TRUUUUE

[thin ibex]

Hazardous always for more benefit

My boyz and gitz out here blowing themselves to kingdom come while also destroying my enemies

[rocky shale]

In dread mob you're probably doing like lootas, with a mek w/ shokk attack gun, maybe a big mek in mega armor with the stealth enhancement for sneaky mega nobz

[thin ibex]

Kans in mek are good

[rocky shale]

then killa kans yeah

[wide veldt]

…. Tbh shooting heavy orks still looks fun without any buffs

[thin ibex]

Im also partial to the naut with the gatling gun, but its a little eggs basket

[wide veldt]

What do you fucking mean a 100 point unit has 30 attacks what is this shit

[rocky shale]

maybe some deff dreads, a couple gretchin units, a gorkanaut

[rocky shale]

on average only like 5-7 hit

[wide veldt]

Holy shit my phone hates the Dakka

[thin ibex]

Yeah like I mentioned, orks get loads of ranged attacks to make up for poor skill

[wide veldt]

Okay but the possibility that they’ll all hit and wound…..

[thin ibex]

Which makes any enhancement to their shooting kind of explosive

[rocky shale]

You cant cope like that

You gotta go into it expecting to miss everything

Ork shooting is about the experience of rolling dice, not of hitting

[thin ibex]

Yeah go in and expect a wasted shooting phase and get delighted instead

Much like orks, it's about the light and the sound, not the actual damage

(Still wish the zzap was worthwhile)

[rocky shale]

I once had a 55 point unit of 5 aledari rangers tank an entire gorkanaught deffstorm mega shoota because their stealth meant it went from hitting on 5s to 6s

[wide veldt]

lol

No see this is funny I love this

[rocky shale]

30 shots wounding on 2s and saves on 5+ and like 3 of them lived

[wide veldt]

So is ranged just funny and melee is when orks just

Actually win the game

[rocky shale]

Ranged is funny unless you're in more dakka or (stronger) taktikal with a few strong combo blobs

[wide veldt]

Why do the orders have a chance to wound

[rocky shale]

Taktikal is where you get the crazy flash gitz

[wide veldt]

Do they just randomly kill people sometimes?

[rocky shale]

Because when da boyz dont follow orders you gotta krump em!

[wide veldt]

Oh god they’re commissars

[rocky shale]

Yeah

Some boyz only listen to a good krumpin

[thin ibex]

Commorksars

[wide veldt]

Wow 6 units of Gretchen is

Upsettingly cheap

[thin ibex]

Some of the chaffiest chaff that has ever chaffed

[wide veldt]

You can run 132 Gretchen in dred mobs for 400 points

[rocky shale]

for one of them you gotta bring the epic hero that makes them actually do stuff

[junior summit]

Taktikal is the Blood Axes detachment so yeah they're literally cosplaying commissars

[thin ibex]

I really wanna give speed freakz a go but apparently the buggies just aren't good rn?

[tired cairn]

You won't regret buying 132 Gretchen

[grim mango]

What do people think about the prevalence of AI generated minis, I found this on cults3d (since been removed) and I hate how close it is

[pale narwhal]

is that AI? or just photoscanned from the images gw has provided of huron so far

[grim mango]

it was ai generated from the gw images so far apparently using a site called Meshy

[tired cairn]

I'm surprised it works that well

3d printing an AI generated model meant to duplicate an official model (or a scan of it, or recasting) is copyright infringement. So it depends on how much you care about that

[charred bridge]

I've seen ads for this

[charred bridge]

ML quite good at analyzing images but not understanding it. Kind of why captchas now don't just ask you say pick the streetlight but questions like what animals goes with this image and it'll be a bird house and images will be random animals with birds

Another one that's been worked on for a long time is analyzing scans of cancer patients and detecting signs of cancerous cells or seemingly healthy ones that will become malign

[pale narwhal]

New killteam dataslate is out. My bois the battleclade got some solid buffs

[hollow laurel]

Yaegir equipment looks great and finally I can dust off my kasrkin again by the looks of it

So I am a happy dataslate reader

[deft crest]

chat wake up kasrkin is playable again

shade runner made crazy with dash being allowed alongside warpjumps

[paper bluff]

Basically he's like the deldar. He's got to save until you fail

[tired cairn]

I'm surprised because modern AI stuff is a bit famous for not being great at understanding the physicality of something in a way I would have thought you'd need for a successful 3d print. Though maybe this is outdated and/or it's using more traditional methods to get the geometry via a function call out. (I'm also curious at how the back looks lol or what images had to be fed in)

[broken dew]

Did you know that Makari is the Banner Bearer of Ghazkgul Mag Uruk Thraka, prophet of the WAAAAGH

He's the right hand man to the current leader of the Orks basically

[wide veldt]

[broken dew]

Also extremely funny that the banner is called "Da lucky stikk"

[wide veldt]

Crazy that there’s no epic hero mek btw

Made an ork list :3

Debating splitting the Kans

But dropping 30 dice with dev wounds is

Real funny

[past sphinx]

see

the morkanaut and gorkanaut are taking of valuable gretchin space

thats an extra 140 odd gretchin on the field

[floral herald]

This balance dataslate is crazy

[wide veldt]

TRUTHNUKE

[wide veldt]

OwO?

[floral herald]

There’s a lot of buffs to under-performing teams and good nerfs to the meta rulers

The KT meta was in the worst shape it’s ever been (imo) so it’s very welcome

[junior robin]

good to know they look good in blue shoulders, plan to do some for a world eater army

[atomic apex]

Is there a way to view all the changes somewhere?

[tired cairn]

I'm surprised it took until this balance dataslate to clarify how oval base distances are measured. Is the Hunter Clade Arquebus the only model in Kill Team with an oval base?

[mental birch]

Yes

Actually

[deft crest]

I THINK the patriarch is also on a oval??

But i might have that confused with whatever the OTHER genestealer big guy is called

I get them confused a lot

[tired cairn]

The patriarch is on a round base iirc. The broodlord (the Tyranids proper version) is on an oval one though

[jaunty dawn]

The gsc patriarch is round and the near identical (but different) tyranid brood lord is oval

Yeah

[deft crest]

Ahhh that makes sense

Love this

Breachers needed love

And Exaction squad got a buff to their dog so it looks like i'm buying the inquisitor Start Collecting box soon

Death Corps got BRING IT DOWN and I didn't see the added rule to the Second in command model before so I should start playing them again

Ratlings got a bit of a boost to their stuff now that they dont need to "Leapfrog" their scamper and that fucks

[atomic apex]

Oh nice, I did like Exaction Squad when I tried them
And the dog seemed fairly good together with its handler

[wide veldt]

Made a custodes army:

Two notes

[atomic apex]

How many units? 😛

[wide veldt]

One: wow yeah you really are fielding like fucking light vehicles in the shape of men

Like 25 total models lmao

Second: okay the sisters of silence feel really weird right

Like psykers don’t feel…. THAT prominent

[tired cairn]

They are cheap objective holders >.>

[wide veldt]

That having an entire part of your army dedicated to them makes sense from a gameplay standpoint

I guess that makes sense

But you see I have expensive objective holders

Known as a guy with 9 wounds deep striking near one and going “this is mine now”

[atomic apex]

Yeah but you still need some guys to sit on objectives while the custodes go charging off

[wide veldt]

Fair

also wow the melta spears are real good

Kinda great all rounders w good anti armor

[atomic apex]

I should also try building Custodes at some point
But I'd probably have to do it at 2k points
It feels so hard to do much fun stuff with them at only 1k

[floral herald]

There is not, it sucks

[atomic apex]

Unfortunate

[floral herald]

The space wolf dog is also an oval base and is probably what prompted the clarification

[tired cairn]

(do you mean Oval?)

Probably more important for melee

[broken dew]

Adeptus Ridiculous with some really fun art for The End and the Death

[floral herald]

I did whoops

[tired cairn]

"Play your last pathetic card, False Emperor"

what did the traitor legions call the emperor during the Horus Heresy?

[vital barn]

The Emperor, mostly

but Sevatar came up with "Death to the False Emperor" during the planning meeting for Istvaan V so probably that too

[thin ibex]

Anyone know where one could find good 3d print modular terrain files? Got a buddy willing to print if i can provide files

[tired cairn]

I do find "False Emperor" a funny moniker. Like, it's objectively true he is the emperor even if you don't think he should be

[jaunty dawn]

I mean he self styles as the emperor of mankind

Hes objectively the emperor of the imperium

But given the horus aligned forces are all humans, even if many are transhuman, it is pretty appropriate to be like

Not my mankind dork

[paper bluff]

Makari also gets respawned in lore. I'm trying to remember if it's the same makari reincarnating and every time he dies he sprouts back up or if it's a the red gobbo situation

[broken dew]

think it is the same one

[jaunty dawn]

He might have died once when gazhkull sat on him and then fed him to a squig, but maybe the imperium made up that story because hes not dead rn

Which I find a really amusing concept

[broken dew]

there are tons of deaths attributed to Makari

[jaunty dawn]

Idk who writes imperium propaganda

[broken dew]

like it's a whole thing that there is just like

a metric buttload of sightings and mentions of Makari dying

but you know

he keeps not being dead so

[jaunty dawn]

Apparently makari is uh

Also a prophet of the waaagh

[broken dew]

makes sense

[jaunty dawn]

Given he had the same vision gaz did

[broken dew]

it's him and Ghaz

[jaunty dawn]

Apparently he regains memories every time ghaz marks him

One time grotsnik did it cause ghaz was indisposed (dead)

[paper bluff]

He's Duncan Idaho ing?

[jaunty dawn]

Essentially I think makari and ghaz are two sides of the same coin

Orks love duality

[paper bluff]

This is true

[past sphinx]

Duncan idaho gets the funniest gig in history if you read the extended dune books

poor fucker is the single consistent point in the rest of history

[paper bluff]

I remember in a o s that one of the kruel boys was gifted with understanding any language and speaking it from mork and one of the reason kataros didn't attack them is because that kruelboy spoke to katacros in the dead language and pointed him at a different civ

[paper bluff]

Human internet yeah

[past sphinx]

i deeply regret reading the extended dune books

[paper bluff]

Frank gets a little weird there yeah

[past sphinx]

franks son*

[paper bluff]

Also... are the orks inspired by dune? The genetic memory thing. I know the whole god emperor thing is early g.W pulling from them

[past sphinx]

nah dune is explicitly anti xenos even existing

until like

book 10

but by then things are fully off the rails

[paper bluff]

I mean, the aliens were with dune the entire time

[soft willow]

A lot of 40k things are dune inspired, but not really Orks.

Orks are just brittish footballers with guns, green skin and tusks.

[jaunty dawn]

I mean the argument is that the orks are inspired by like

The bene gesserit

And the concept of past vision

Not that orks exist in dune

[broken dew]

there is a space marine chapter that sort of has a bene gesserit thing going on

[paper bluff]

They can be both football hooligans and The bene gesserit.

[past sphinx]

puts on red hat really orks are just the warhammer writers expression of classism in british society

same with the Genestealer cult

takes off red hat

[paper bluff]

Nah the gene stealer cults are capitalism

[jaunty dawn]

Do fantasy orks have any genetic memory stuff?

[soft willow]

Nope.

[past sphinx]

do i have news for you on how those two things intertwine

fantasy orks are pretty generically orky consider how weird 40k orks can get

[pastel rampart]

40k is this weird soup of sci-fi and fantasy inspirations. Dune, 2000 A.D., Judge Dredd, Tolkien, Nemesis the Warlock are all big influences on the setting.

[past sphinx]

NEMESIS THE WARLOCK MENTION LETS GO

[jaunty dawn]

I think 40k orks only really got the genetic memory thing properly when they were folded into the war in heaven which is like, necron lore right?

[paper bluff]

Now that was the kork

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdzfOXkZrY0 Hell yeah Nemesis

[jaunty dawn]

like its a relatively recent development that they were definitively connected to the old ones. Or like krork even being mentioned

[paper bluff]

What an odd series that was

[jaunty dawn]

The original lore is that meks exist but theyre just like. Autistic. Not living stcs

And the maintenance of their technology is primarily achieved through slavery

[pastel rampart]

War in Heaven was originally Eldar lore but got expanded when Necrons dropped.

[paper bluff]

I think that happened when they got the ctan lore

[jaunty dawn]

Also orks used to get pregnant marsupial style

Before they were mushroom men

[paper bluff]

Did the mushroom men thing happen around...Third edition?

[pastel rampart]

WoH predates Necron. First mentioned in the 2e Eldar codex.

[paper bluff]

Gorkamorka expanded ork lore a fair bit iirc

[pastel rampart]

Yeah

[paper bluff]

That was the one with the really cool asuryani on the front? Lots of blue and silver

[jaunty dawn]

More recent fantasy lore 7th ed etc has the orcs also be mushrooms but I think they werent before

Oh wait old world is more ambiguous abt it

[paper bluff]

It was....

[pastel rampart]

We used to have REAL covers dammit

[jaunty dawn]

This is my favourite modern cover

9e sisters

Cause uh

Sister Sacresant up there is indistinguishable from a chaos warrior basically

But a lot of them are just reused art nowadays :(

[past sphinx]

Lewis jones alwys brings the fucking heat

The brother GETS IT

[jaunty dawn]

Thats peakk

[raven meteor]

Yoooo that's a very good eviscerator
I love the effect on the teeth

[quaint compass]

Running RED HOT

-# As spoken by Tim Curry

[paper bluff]

Blood for the emperor! skulls for the golden throne!

[reef pagoda]

AAAAAAAAGH i love the weird sisters units like arco-flagellants and the coffin mechs

[little bay]

who ever made this

knows his warhammer 40k

[past sphinx]

Lewis Jones

[little bay]

a sister repentia

i hope he made some art of the penitent engines

[wide veldt]

Watching some 9e content

Okay yeah losing warlord traits hurts a little lol

Anyway WOOOO ORKS FUCK YEAH ORKS LETS GOOOO

Okay wait never mind I looked at Necrons for a sec

Cryptek conclave is new and seems fucking WILD

Oh they just straight up made a ctan spam detatch

All right then

[atomic apex]

yep

I should look at Cryptek Conclave some again, their rule seems pretty nice

been messing around with Cursed Legion a bit

[wide veldt]

I gotta make a list for my OC dynasty again

They’re “good” Necrons

They see humans the way humans irl see like

Pandas

Like god… dammit guys just be better at civilization

We’re gonna have to take you in and make you better at it

Yeah this is silly

[atomic apex]

it's pretty good, yeah

[rocky shale]

You're mostly just limited by what you can attach crypteks to

[atomic apex]

Immortals with Plasmancer attached are pretty nice

[wide veldt]

Oooo the guys from the kill team are sexy

They’re also new to me

The geomancer and such

Them stopping people from deep striking with a tiny monolith is adorbs

[paper bluff]

it's great with technomancer and wraiths with pistols

dev wounds on a 3+ it pretty great

[atomic apex]

it's very funny to me how much Crypteks let you stack a unit

since you can have a Noble leading a unit, then also attach a Cryptek, and then also attach extra bodyguards like Cryptothralls to that Cryptek

[wide veldt]

And now ALL of those fuckers are getting the insane cryptek buffs

[raven meteor]

I haven't looked at necroms much
Their whole Black Metal Skellybones vibe is not mine
They seem like a nightmare tho

Models coming back
.....

[atomic apex]

been enjoying Necrons quite a lot

[atomic apex]

huh Cryptothralls are 3 Wounds each

didn't notice that before

that makes them pretty useful to attach to your Immortal blob for ablative wounds

[wide veldt]

Wait why are

Immortals worth less points than warriors

Aren’t immortals supposed to be the elite version

[atomic apex]

fewer models

[wide veldt]

Ohhh

[jaunty dawn]

5-10 vs 10-20

[wide veldt]

Fewer models, more points PER model

[jaunty dawn]

Mm

[wide veldt]

Anyway I don’t care if it’s ever good, always taking the translocation shroud on my overlord

Teleporting is too fun

Sidenote: they should add more flayers

Maybe via a kill team related to the ghoul stars flayer kingdom shit

[atomic apex]

could be neat

[deft crest]

Maybe after they balance the other xeno's factions that are still low on teams/representation

Necrons already have 2 after all

[rocky shale]

The existing flayer kit is notoriously awful to build

[sonic hare]

its also crazy expensive for 5 models

[atomic apex]

another Tyrannid KT would be nice tbh

[wide veldt]

I mean they can also just release more flayers into the wild id like that too

Also reanimating protocols seems like it’s in a pretty good place rn

Getting into people talking about it I know over editions it’s been both wildly overpowered and done

Literally nothing

[atomic apex]

it's nice to have definitely

[jaunty dawn]

Stacking various abilities on warriors was pretty good

Might still be good odk

[atomic apex]

Warriors seem okay, but mostly good for being tanky-ish blobs to put on objectives

though Lychguards can also do that

[wide veldt]

In the context of my army immortals and warriors are better for cryptek spam

[atomic apex]

Immortals are more fragile, but also a lot more kill-y

Immortals with Tesla Carbines and a Plasmancer attached 😌

[wide veldt]

Currently what I’ve got is just my Overlord w Shroud, Chronomancer, 10 immortals w gauss, and the cryptek guard

All as one unit :p

The crytpothralls

[raven meteor]

I was gonna make a bad joke about a new killteam that's just One Carnifex but what is the actual lowest model count killteam

[atomic apex]

lowest is five models

which there are a few teams of

[floral herald]

Yeah there’s been a few now

[floral herald]

Canoptek Circle is a really fun kill team btw

[atomic apex]

I also doubt we'll see one below five

[floral herald]

And now they’re probably even balanced

[atomic apex]

oh nice

I've been interested in Canoptek, but have been holding off because they were apparently just kinda too good until now haha

[thin ibex]

has there been any word about the wolf scouts kill team's fun/playability ratio?

im very interested in them and the stealthsuit KT

but the space wolves have actually unique models

[wide veldt]

I really wanna try kill team

Is there uhhhh

TTS support for it

[atomic apex]

yes

I believe there isn't a central model thing like ForceOrg, but you can find them usually

[floral herald]

A lot

It’s kinda confusing though

[atomic apex]

there is a table mod with maps and tracking stuff though

[wide veldt]

Classic 360 point unit

Of infantry

[raven meteor]

I want to get into killteam but am gonna wait for Insidiants to get to TTS
Novitiates ain't doing it

[atomic apex]

very valid

[raven meteor]

.....But are flamethrowers auto hit like in base 40k tho,

[atomic apex]

no

but I think basically all flamers are 2+ Hit

they're usually Hit on 2+, short range, with some AoE and the same damage on hit or crit

[pale narwhal]

They hit on a 2+ and have saturate (ignore cover for saves) and torrent x (you can select valid secondary targets within x” of the first one)

It’s not autohit but it’s pretty darn close

[atomic apex]

it's very funny to me how Killteam has way more AoE than mainline 40k

[floral herald]

Insidiants are gonna be neat

[atomic apex]

Novitiate are a bit ehh
Sanctifiers have funnily kinda been doing the Sororitas bit better until now

at least they had way more flamers

[raven meteor]

Sanctifiers are even worse
Novitiates are babby sisters but they're
Something?

Not Sisters

[floral herald]

Sanctifiers are so cool as a team tho

[atomic apex]

oh yeah visual style wise definitely not the same haha
I mostly meant gameplay style wise

[raven meteor]

Like I get they're Assorted Adeptus Ministorum Mooks but
I'm lowkey not actually here for the battle church stuff, I just think the Battle Sisters themselves are cool

[floral herald]

Really complicated to run and super rewarding when well operated

Also super easy to 1 box nearly all options with magnets

[atomic apex]

the funniest thing about Sanctifiers to me is Sanctification Orbs

aka, throw a bottle of gasoline on people

[floral herald]

The gasoline water balloons are great

[wide veldt]

So in a kill team is each model like a unit?

[atomic apex]

yes

[floral herald]

They’re independently acting if that’s what you mean yeah

[wide veldt]

And they’ve all got special statblocks and stuff?

[floral herald]

Team selection is super different from 40K so it’s hard to compare

[atomic apex]

each Kill Team has somewhere between 5 to like 12 individual dudes

[floral herald]

Yeah special stats for all of em

[atomic apex]

yes

[wide veldt]

That…. Makes sense why the rattling kill team has like 10 special titles

For each guy

[atomic apex]

usually you have a bunch of specialized guys, and then like one "generic" model that you can take multiple of

[floral herald]

Yeah almost all kill teams these days are an assortment of unique specialists

There’s a few which run several generic warriors though

[atomic apex]

the generic warriors do have some upsides usually, and reasons for why you'd take them

often it's using Ploys on them for free

[wide veldt]

Also it’s really funny seeing the squad tactics guys in stuff like RT and kill team fight threats that are just Cool and Scary in the war game

Like Ctan shards

Or a changer of ways

And it’s like “oh this is the final boss” or “this is an unbeatable enemy you must run from”

Meanwhile motherfuckers build spam lists of these guys

[tranquil ivy]

chat i need y'all to bully me into finally building my pile of shame

[atomic apex]

the opposite of this one was Tomb Crawlers for me 😛
which in KT are one of the scariest models in the game, and in 40k are just kinda ehh

[tranquil ivy]

ignore the blur my phone camera is ass

but yes
my pile of shame grows

[atomic apex]

the Transdimensional Isolator is a scary fucking gun in KT

[floral herald]

Honestly it’s one of the scariest if not the scariest gun in the game

Maybe the Inquisition’s Multi Melta Battle Servitor keeps up?

A lot of it is the guy holding it but the deathwatch plasma gunner is another contender

[floral herald]

Also worth noting that this team gets Ceaseless (full rerolls in 40K speak) very easily on it

[atomic apex]

for slight comparison also
7-8-ish wounds is about normal for human scale models, 14 for Astartes

the Isolator has very good odds of just killing a large amount of models in one Shoot action

[jaunty dawn]

I think the burst cannon is similar