God bless Clarance.
#Warhammer and Such
bright dove
cinder wraith
guys i made my first Clarance proxy for a gt, C&C /j
quaint compass
Ya
thin ibex
What's the eversore good at currently? I noticed he doesn't auto explode on death
little bay
dunno
quaint compass
Infiltrate/kill a character from the looks of things
past sphinx
What's the eversore good at currently? I noticed he doesn't auto explode on deat...
move boost, shoot the fuck out of an infantry character, charge, kill the shit out of the squad they were standing in and then die instantly turn after
out of all the assassins hes probably the best at actually doing the job
past sphinx
wizard boy is to specific, sniper lad just fucking misses and cant 1 tap most non guard characters, shapeshifto the amazing woman has vect and uppy downy making them way to high value to actually fight stuff
Blendo however gets in the gristle
atomic apex
All the low attack precision weapons that still can't actually deal enough wounds to kill a character puzzle me
quaint compass
Balance wise, they shouldn't get to kill any one character in a single volley
But they usually barely hurt said character at the cost of a unit that very likely could kill the character and their bodyguard
Three firesight marksmen (180 points) dealt 2 wounds to a generic space marine
One strike team (70 points) dealt 5 wounds to the same generic marine of spaces
One can be buffed by a leader, the other can sit on an objective and plink pitifully
Detachment abilities might add some damage, but applies to both in a way which benefits the strike team more than the marksman
past sphinx
i would mostly agree short of the vindicare
past sphinx
i do kinda miss the exploding dice
iirc you hit and did d3 damage
then roll a +3 and did another +4 did another +5 did another
shouldve been a flat 3 like now tho
but assassins are always weird
vital barn
Vindicare is tempting for my Admech army but I'm not sure he does better than two of the Skitarii stiltmen given they can stand on more places
shame non-Agents can't do the traditional "shuffle which assassin is in your list" thing this edition as far as I can tell
quaint compass
But it is not this day
past sphinx
exactly
rocky shale
shame non-Agents can't do the traditional "shuffle which assassin is in your lis...
Yeah that's the pure agents army rule lmao
hallow star
hearing this while eating
Get to the kerillians part
Actually choke for a sec at the last part
hearty wasp
Tech priest arianism
Which i guess. The trinity would be the Emperor the Omnisiah and the Machine God
viral crest
The Emperor is the Omnissiah
It's the Motive Force, the Omnissiah, and the Machine God
sour sequoia
All the low attack precision weapons that still can't actually deal enough wound...
Paying for the sins of 9th ed versions of themselves
Where lone op and attaching worked differently and they were cranked to compensate
vital barn
basically whenever I've actually been playing 40k all precision weapons have been pretty bloody awful
I missed 9e, but snipers were functionally useless for 7e, most of 8th and all of HH1 and HH2
they're having a nice time in HH3, at least
sour sequoia
Precision is glorious when you pass it to a unit, 10th is a Volume Matters Edition most days
vital barn
yeah, I am quite looking forward to getting the Ruststalkers into stuff since they have squadwide precision and enough damage for it to actually matter
same thing in HH even, although the Marine sniper HQs aren't bad
it's mostly about the actual sniper squads
Vindicare is getting new rules in the Custodes liber so he might do something fun
right now he's just unreliable enough to not be worth the points
atomic apex
Paying for the sins of 9th ed versions of themselves
I kinda figured it was something like that
atomic apex
Where lone op and attaching worked differently and they were **cranked** to comp...
How did that work out of curiosity?
tranquil ivy
well folks
I gotta make not one mini, but two
but the hard part is
its gonna be the same character
so uh, wish me luck
tired cairn
The Vanguard Onslaught detachment has a strat that gives Vanguard units precision. And it's really funny if you can connect a full squad of genestealers with Broodlord and then use it. It will almost certainly explode any character from the mortal wounds alone lol
pine matrix
so uh, wish me luck
Good luck!
thin ibex
there are some factions you can play into that precision is completely worth
like guard hates getting their guys sniped
aeldari characters are usually relatively easy to punch
drukhari is kinda similar
tranquil ivy
i never thought i'd be slowly setting up bits to make two of the same character
jaunty dawn
More daemony and less daemony?
tranquil ivy
More daemony and less daemony?
im inevitably gonna join a Crusade game, and i'd like to one day make a Sergeant - > Lieutenant or Lieutenant -> Captain style thing
so yeh :]
jaunty dawn
Nice! That would be really cool :)
tranquil ivy
going from an Intercessor Sergeant to some sort of Lieutenant is the main goal
I mean hell, Kulve over here shows that my chapter gives zero fucks about the codex
as for inspiration...
raven meteor
All the low attack precision weapons that still can't actually deal enough wound...
In my game yesterday my three Hospitallers survived the concentrated fire of like 4 packs of Aeldari snipers for most of the game, it's very funny
Two ranger squads and two shroud runner squads
In the end they had to get ground down in melee with their sacresants as normal
atomic apex
it's specifically also stuff like say the Stinger Pistol on Drukhari that I find odd
which is a one attack precision weapon with D1
like what do you even snipe with that
raven meteor
If Precision weapons could target any model and not just character models I could see it
Snipe that multi melta out of the sister squad
tranquil ivy
fuck yeah, power claws
had no luck with adding the chaos Legionary chestplate unfortunately
broken dew
i do love power claws
i had thought about giving my chapter master some but i think the storm shields would get in the way so he got power fists
sour sequoia
If Precision weapons could target any model and not just character models I coul...
It used to do this
vital barn
this is still half their role in 30k
shoot the radiomen, sarge and/or special weapons out of a squad and pin them down with status effects
raven meteor
Unsurprising!
bright dove
Yeah, made the Vindicare a beast back in the day. You could really wreck units
pastel rampart
Hell yeah
tranquil ivy
no luck with the chaos variant, but i'll make it eventually
cinder wraith
?
desert jay
Random question, do people remember what was going on in the meta where they decided non-daemon chaos armies needed a matching battleline daemon per non-battleline one? Was it flamers again?
jaunty dawn
I think it was random characters also
But i think it might have been flamers too
I think kairos was one maybe?
And the changeling was a splashable lone op
soft willow
I think it was actually to do with Nurglings being used as cheap OC in lots of lists?
It's been a hot minute though.
pastel rampart
jaunty dawn
Nurglings are battleline so I dont think so
They were basically the one demon that wasnt targetted by the nerf
jaunty dawn
Wahapedia says they are battleline haha
jaunty dawn
Weird
So do cult legions get either no daemons or double (specific) daemons but nothing in between
viral crest
The legions get demons as a soup detachment
jaunty dawn
Yeah thats double daemons
viral crest
Double?
soft willow
IIRC it was specifically Nurglings in CK they were concerned with, but a lot of CSM lists were using them as well.
jaunty dawn
50% vs 25% in knights and csm
desert jay
So do cult legions get either no daemons or double (specific) daemons but nothin...
Yeah a lot of cult legion players are understandably grumpy about being unable to take units printed in their codex without a specific detachment
jaunty dawn
Its so weird
desert jay
That and it being a reduced list compared to what's in the daemons index
eg. No Hellflayers or Tranceweaver or etc for EC
jaunty dawn
Mm
broken dew
man i didn't see this earlier but one of the Mortek Triaxes has a bone carrier pigeon
what peak
such is the power of Nagash
pastel rampart
Ossiarchs kinda rule. I've seen better paint jobs than the studio one and I've warmed up to them as a result.
Plus how can you not like Uncle Bones in his Easy Chair™
broken dew
lmaoooo
mild glen
Okay, y'all.
Any tips for finding dropped bits?
soft willow
Okay, y'all.
Any tips for finding dropped bits?
More seriously, dropped on what kind of flooring?
mild glen
Tan carpet. With a hard plastic protector over some of it for the chair wheels
tardy vault
turn on every light you can, get down there with a flashlight, and start feeling around. Account for it getting bounced pretty far.
And maybe get someone else to do a look as well
soft willow
tardy vault
yeah basically
mild glen
Applied plastic glue, slipped from fingers, bounced off the 0 key on numpad. Into the Abyss
tardy vault
And maybe get someone else to do a look as well
It's going to have bounced in a completely bullshit direction you didn't expect so someone who didn't see it fall might have an easier time because they're not biased
soft willow
Slowly widen your search circle bit by bit
mild glen
It's the back of the guy handing the other guy arrows on the lumineth ballista. Not even something I can just fix with an alternate head.
soft willow
A bit that big you'll find if you just comb carefully
mild glen
You know what this is weirdly making me wish I had? Kroot hounds. I could have the arrows being handled by the goodest boy animal companion
charred bridge
Okay, y'all.
Any tips for finding dropped bits?
Start another kit, when you've forgotten about it you'll find it out of nowhere then wonder what this random but belongs to
mild glen
This requires buying a new kit. My FLGS thanks you
stark cypress
One is my primary
and the other is my cannibal kit in case I screw something up or have a part missing.
mild glen
Think I can lie to GW and just say it was missing a part so they send me a new kit?
(For legal reasons, this is a joke)
past sphinx
Tan carpet. With a hard plastic protector over some of it for the chair wheels
Keep your work area clean below you, shop vac area, check vac after doing area
Its the only method thats worked in my desperation
What do yall think of this basing
pale narwhal
maybe could do with a slightly darker or desaturated green
but I like it. Orange and blue naturally set each other off really well
deft crest
Stomp around in big shoes, when you hear a crunch you've found it 
pale narwhal
I think I'm kinda stuck with it
could mayyybe get a black wash and try and touch it over the leaves
paper bluff
*Actually choke for a sec at the last part*
Pancreasenowork is very thirsty for elves
tardy vault
"If you lock me and Teclis in a room one of us is leaving pregnant"
charred bridge
Let's be real it won't be Teclis
quaint compass
He doesn't know what protection is
He just casts Arcane Shield and deflects the pregnancy to you
jaunty dawn
Im really undecided about these ladies
Sword and board celestian is cool
I love how inspiring is achieve something or just charge anyway
Power zweihander is also pretty awesome
Actually I wonder how well the bodies will kitbash with bolter arms from the base sisters
Cause Ive been meaning to make a squad of classic celestians with bayonets
jaunty dawn
The cloak arms might be a bit tricky but I think I could manage
Even if it means making new cloaks from green stuff
Gee sister superior how come your mother superior let you have two capelets
How much psyker stuff is in the current meta? Are tsons rotated out yet
floral herald
Since Wolf Scouts are so dominant there’s a noticeable amount
Wolf Scouts and Nemesis Claw are probably the most psychic teams?
junior robin
finally, raptors primaris lieutenant
tired cairn
Hmm, an anti-psyker rule, particularly at a kill team level, seems a bit weird
floral herald
There’s been a few so far
They’re technically opt in for the other player though
Which is interesting
I think Nemesis Claw and Chaos Cult have the only mandatory psykers?
Oh and Tsons I guess
tepid stratus
Yeah those are the only mandatory picks
But inquisition, wolf scouts, plague marines, fellgors and brood brothers all have optional psykers
tired cairn
Why even have a jump pack if you’re not going to use it all the time?
Can't argue with that
Ok, the specification of vantage terrain preventing boosts means they burst through every other overhanging terrain right? And I guess the space hulks and necron tombs have really tall ceilings (which honestly checks out)
Though maybe they cover that first part in more detail in the full rules
floral herald
Wall terrain in close quarters will stop them
Capital W walls have incredibly strong wording which basically means you can’t measure though them ever unless specified so it’s fair to assume
tired cairn
Yeah, I assumed they couldn't go through walls. But it's mildly funny the ceilings are high enough they can boost at all since it's a big leap
floral herald
That’s true yeah
tired cairn
Though bladefins implies they are still about person height when doing this
pastel rampart
The space hulk video games, Space Marine 1/2 and Darktide shows that ceilings are turbo high for like no real reason so it makes a kind of sense.
tired cairn
You can't have that cathedral aesthetic without the high vaulting ceilings
pastel rampart
Exactly.
"How do space marines fit in buildings" the imperium has made all floors a minimum 30ft tall that's how
floral herald
It’s like how fire departments basically dictate how wide roads are in the us - the space marines set the building codes
tired cairn
Are you going to argue with the two meter tall posthuman with the moniker 'angel of death' when they tell you that they want to be able to use their jetpacks indoors?
sour sequoia
Doing a crusade with the lads and my proselytization has worked. Highest concentration of genestealers players in a crusade ever
2
sour sequoia
Nobody lets a top 100 gsc player run baldoids in the for fun crusade :C
The LGS is debating the same veto and its gonna be the death of me
vital barn
instead I get to badger you for baldoid tips in the hope of only taking maybe 90% of the crusade to learn how my army works
tired cairn
It's interesting that the boost section mentions charge, reposition and fall back all make boost zones, but the two boost actions they've shown us don't work on charge
sonic hare
what is a baldoid
quaint compass
A bald individual
tired cairn
The cults experience Genestealer Pattern Baldness
sour sequoia
what is a baldoid
quaint compass
Hairstealer Cults
sour sequoia
instead I get to badger you for baldoid tips in the hope of only taking maybe 90...
Watch the entirety of breaking bad and better call saul for advice on assembling a crack team of bald men
sonic hare
okay its just slang for gsc
tired cairn
That's the genes they are stealing. The Tyranids will be unstoppable if they can ever figure out hair
sonic hare
I was wondering if it was a particular unit
sour sequoia
Really it’s the acolytes because I can say guardsmen for neophytes and everything besides those is more obviously a different type of guy
quaint compass
Beware the Hairmagant
quaint compass
Which is a weirdly common design in 40k
It's easy to sculpt, been a hamwar staple since the invention of plastic
A distinct piece of hair with dynamism unlike free-flowing long hair which basically goes everywhere
Also the reason why mohawks are so common
jaunty dawn
I think its also just a blanche thing
raven meteor
Sword and board celestian is cool
In the likely event they get ported to TTS, I think I'm gonna take them as a stand-in for Celestian Sacresants, I do love that model a a lot
But yeah my main wonder since they got revealed has been 'is the only True Sister Killteam going to be crippled against non-psykers'
raven meteor
Yeeeee, and giving the article a read the one unit they show off is just a lady with a power greatsword and no psyker nonsense, which is appreciated
little bay
looks cool
deft crest
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/5s6zvean/kill-team-shadowhunt...
Sick
tired cairn
The article says the anti-psyker ability no sells psyker abilities but also it's complicated. So I wonder how it works and if it has a bunch of riders so enemy psykers still get to have some fun
tired cairn
https://youtube.com/shorts/ibi1NdTqppY?si=3jbVx6sxA0QdbOcL
I love him
pastel rampart
Printing a warp lightning cannon for a friend.
Printed like a dream. Took a while but no warping, no supports needed. Cannon is going right now and it's similar split in half.
rocky shale
The article says the anti-psyker ability no sells psyker abilities but also it's...
There aren't many teams with more than like 2 psykers total
junior summit
It’s like how fire departments basically dictate how wide roads are in the us - ...
Remember that really dumb bit of lore that claimed in the DAoT baneblades were light tanks?
raven meteor
Remember that really dumb bit of lore that claimed in the DAoT baneblades were l...
Bolo-ass statement
junior summit
all of the building plans in the daot were sized for normal humans
but normal back then was a custodian
runic swallow
Remember that really dumb bit of lore that claimed in the DAoT baneblades were l...
Iirc that is one of those sourceless fan things?
charred bridge
And Knights were farming equipment that civilians used that just happened to be able defend itself from megafauna
raven meteor
Meltaguns? For baking lots of bread at once
Very fast
mild glen
Spent two hours looking for that bit, eventually settled for an inelegant kirbash
charred bridge
Meltaguns? For baking lots of bread at once
Very fast
My emotional support Void Abacus
Vortex torpedos are great for trash disposal
quaint compass
Macrocannon batteries were for high-yield food delivery
junior summit
And Knights were farming equipment that civilians used that just happened to be ...
They do specify that the earliest knights were different from the modern combat models and were adapted over time to military applications from their civilian industrial origins
raven meteor
You put a little letter inside a bolter shell and fired it in the general direction of who you wanted to talk too
And so on
junior summit
so the tree feller 9000 iirc did not originally come with an autoloading tank gun on the other arm
charred bridge
An autoloading tank gun would fell a tree though
junior summit
it'd wreck the tree though
charred bridge
But itd fell it too
junior summit
my headcanon is that the oldest knight config is chainsword + thunderstrike
since you gave the big tool arm and then a manipulator
charred bridge
Is like a power tiller a thing in 40k I feel like it should be
thin ibex
baneblades being light tanks is like my point at this example of like DOAT glazing being extremely wild
I don't care how advanced you are, a tank of that size is not light
charred bridge
They did have wild stuff
Mechanivores could lift continents into space and they had machines that'd coil around stars to snuff them out
I think they should have gone 110% into it
Heavy Lascannon were light sidearms type of ridiculous
vital barn
the baneblade is also just not a particularly advanced machine no matter how much you can spam them
it's a huge brick of armour full of chemical explosives
desert jay
I bet DAOT actually used them as tractors and the guns came later. Wait this is just Knight lore again
charred bridge
Back in the day when they used light tanks as tractors thats how advanced they were
raven meteor
The knights being industrial tools seems so ridiculous to me because aren't they like
The size of large buildings
What tree needs that to cut down
Why do you need that instead of a
Crane
For making a building
So on
charred bridge
I mean the protohives were still extremely tall by our standards
Even the small ones would dwarf a knight, although a crane would still be better for it but also its 40k its full of ridiculous
desert jay
There are indoor spaces in Darktide and Space Marine that can fit a Knight, including the doors
charred bridge
Ceaseless Pyre which could set a planet on eternal fire in an instant that could also spread via vox link though. That was probably just a weapon
quaint compass
They have the tech and the means to turn entire planets into single crop fields and then harvest them in a constant rotation of planting, fertilizing, harvest, and tilling at a steep decline in technological know-how. The DAOT was absurd, in comparison to the absurdity of current imperial tech.
bright dove
See the DAOT AI that casually just outclassing everything the Mechanicus could throw out.
junior summit
I don't care how advanced you are, a tank of that size is not light
also the baneblade just isn't built to do light tank stuff
light tanks want to be fast and small so they can do manuever and recon and such and baneblades are lumbering behemoths
desert jay
You won't believe how slow and cumbersome the DAOT heavy tank was
thin ibex
its just that like wacky doesnt make the baneblade make any sort of sense as a light tank
humans were still broadly the sam size, terrestrial gravity still was broadly (weirdly) consistent
brittle salmon
its just that like wacky doesnt make the baneblade make any sort of sense as a l...
This is complete hearsay and telephone meme propagation anyway
jaunty dawn
It doesnt really make sense that its used as a command tank either
thin ibex
and DAOT glazing often sounds like "The average person had a black hole pistol to make tea with, tanks were often equipped with [????] which were recursive information deleting weapons that should end all of reality but dont because of reasons, baneblades were rollerskates, jets didn't even have guns they just flew through anything"
brittle salmon
There is no 40k source that says the Baneblade was used as a light/scout tank in the DAoT
its legitimately not worth talking about
Because its made up
jaunty dawn
But its internally consistent in warhammer. Why be a tank company commander if you dont have the best chariot to hit them with your sword
thin ibex
it starts to sound like "Yeah well [insert DAOT thing here] was better than [any other thing], while being lighter, faster, stronger, sexier, with a better retirement plan, a six pack, and will never lose against anything"
back in the dark age of technology, knights did gymnastics
charred bridge
it starts to sound like "Yeah well [insert DAOT thing here] was better than [any...
DaoT weapons and tech was just better though
thin ibex
back in the dark age of technology, every gun at the infantry level was stronger than a battleship's macro cannon
a civilian's teaspoon during the DAOT was more capable of cutting through armor than a relic power blade in 40k
charred bridge
Men of Iron were monsterous and they were commonplace
thin ibex
a pair of jeans from the DAOT could block the emperor himself's sword without even trying
charred bridge
Relic blades are mostly fancy power swords with a lot of history behind them
Prized for that moreso than being valued relics than strong weapons
thin ibex
tbf, relic blades are also better made and functioning, which is part of why they're valued
but yeah, DAOT just feels like an extremely flanderized 'old good lol' for warhammer
charred bridge
I mean better and functioning for modern imperium is not a high bar
Tech capabilities just became worse
floral herald
There is no 40k source that says the Baneblade was used as a light/scout tank in...
It’s from an ancient demotivational I think
thin ibex
Any hand weapon that survives use through literally hundreds of battles is well made, regardless of some mythical tech bar
brittle salmon
It’s from an ancient demotivational I think
hence made up :p
charred bridge
The Voltan would be akin to DaoT miners would have gotten
floral herald
Yeah I just think it’s funny how it’s so old it’s classic format disinformation
thin ibex
I personally just find DAOT stuff to be like kids talking about action figures or OCs that have to insist on how they're better or stronger, to the point that it sounds rediculous even for the setting
brittle salmon
Yeah I just think it’s funny how it’s so old it’s classic format disinformation
yea it really is
it's so old
charred bridge
And volkite was never really perfected for mass usage before the whole HH, and Votann's volkite is pretty much advanced by modern imperium standard
thin ibex
did the votann have a fall from grace epoch of some sort?
charred bridge
Afaik they just got cut off and haven't really improved but have degraded slightly due to their ancestor cores falling apart
charred bridge
They just stagnated it seems
floral herald
did the votann have a fall from grace epoch of some sort?
No they just got isolated by the age of strife and had to bunker down
charred bridge
Imperium actually declined from DaoT then HH kind of sealed any chances of things getting back to beforehand
thin ibex
thats kind of a thought in my mind, is that the Votann represent the clearest line to the DAOT, and factions now are able to fight them
charred bridge
I personally just find DAOT stuff to be like kids talking about action figures o...
That's kind of a big part of DaoT, things were better tech wise
floral herald
They’re having problems now because their core territories are mined out and they can’t defragment the Votann without killing their afterlife
jaunty dawn
Van saar also have an stc and like
thin ibex
They do not in fact steamroll everything because their super tech just auto trounces everyone no dif
charred bridge
Even DaoT tech wasnt that absurd compared to old war in heaven necron stuff that was destroyed/sealed away
jaunty dawn
Even with the horrible corruption its not like their stuff is orders of magnitude better
thin ibex
See thats the thing, a lot of people do phrase DAOT as far in advance of War in Heaven tech
jaunty dawn
Also like stormtalus isnt unaware of the concept of the daot
thin ibex
and like... Necron warriors were necron warriors during the War in Heaven. Their weapons tech did not get downgraded even if the Necron Empire is otherwise fractured and often senile
jaunty dawn
He just doesnt think the way that parts of the community talk about it is accurate or interesting
thin ibex
and turns out the necron warriors humble gauss weapon does not instantly delete titans or some such
charred bridge
Not having the c'tan was big
Necrons couldn't have even chanced victory without the c'tan's powers
thin ibex
That's somewhat beside the point
charred bridge
It was a big part of old necron's power
thin ibex
Tbf, the necrons beat the Ctan too
charred bridge
The grunts are mostly grunts
They backstabber the c'tan using weapons meant to shatter them all at once
They didn't really use the necron warriors for that
SK knew it was risky cause if it didn't work they couldnt have won against the c'tan otherwise
thin ibex
The point is that DAOT era stuff is most often approached with hyperbole about how even the weakest DAOT thing is more powerful than the strongest 40k thing. I don't think this is true. To expand on this point, I referenced stuff that was older, and conceivably just as advanced as DAOT stuff from the war in heaven, that is not in fact a hyperbolic super ultra gun at the smallest level
I am aware of how the war in heaven went, as well as common views on the DAOT
charred bridge
Yea the weakest thing in DaoT isn't all that, but the strongest/above average thing in the DaoT does win out against what the imperium has now in terms of tech.
thin ibex
like I have no issue with "the DAOT had amazing and incredible technology" I do think the way its often treated is pretty boring and simplistic
paper bluff
Well spirit of eternity did show up
I just read a thing and want to read avenging son
Damn I need to read the crawl books
junior summit
there is also a number of DAoT superguns showing up in the tabletop and while they're good they're not handheld planet crackers
i.e. admech archeotech pistols, custodian adrathic weapons, saturnine disintegrators
quaint geode
from a narrative point of view - I do quite like the characterisation of it as a continuation of 40k exploring the baroquely monstrous and absurd (if not effective); anthrochauvinist weapons designers really feeling themselves and making more and more existentially threatening but stupid wonder weapons is an SF theme with a lot of history, after all. I have basically zero time for powerscaling/'this tank is more powerful than that tank' debates, but the story of the guy who got funding from the nightmare sycophantic abominable intelligence to build 'tanks equipped with [????] which were recursive information deleting weapons', why he did it, what sort of politics would create it, etc., could be interesting on a more impressionistic basis.
pastel rampart
And cannon done.
sonic hare
am I wrong in assessing necron death marks as a bit anemic? you're paying 12 ppm for tissue paper guys with a kinda medium weapon with Precision. am I underestimating the efficacy of massed fire on a character?
sour sequoia
Every sniper rifle in 10th is anemic to pay for sins of 9th but they’re cheap reanimating bodies with deep strike
wide veldt
What do yall think the chances of 11e snipers being good again are
jaunty dawn
Snipers are considered an npe so arent really gonna be pushed
sonic hare
NPE?
jaunty dawn
Negative play experience
sonic hare
yeah that makes sense
getting your cool character sniped off the board is a very "my touys..." moment
wide veldt
Tbh I think they just have a really limited like
View of what a sniper should be
Specifically they see no middle ground between awful and able to instant delete any character in the universe lmao
jaunty dawn
Idk I think theyre in that middle ground now
rocky shale
Well the difference in that is basically can or cannot kill a space marine captain reliably in one round
They're awesome if they can and kinda bad if they can't
jaunty dawn
Given previously sniper rifles were just like bolters with precision and devestating wounds
Being a oneshot heavy bolter is a pretty big buff
floral herald
I member when the special sniper thing was Pinning haha
sonic hare
the merciless wheel of abstraction grinds on
wide veldt
What is pinning?
jaunty dawn
Debuffed a unit to be bad at shooting and moving
wide veldt
That’s actually kinda cool?
desert jay
Well the difference in that is basically can or cannot kill a space marine capta...
I think there’s a middle zone of “kills that 2W special weapons guy but not a 5W captain”, but they can’t target special weapons guys right now
charred bridge
Real Alpharius behavior
jaunty dawn
They still do it in horus heresy as well as taking out the radios that help you heal being pinned
sonic hare
precision is just for characters
desert jay
Yeah specifically character-tagged models
rocky shale
I think there’s a middle zone of “kills that 2W special weapons guy but not a 5W...
Yeah being able to shoot a specific model other than characters would help them there. Aeldari rangers would go crazy.
wide veldt
Oh that’s stupid
sonic hare
specifically ones attached to units
sonic hare
if I'm reading it correctly it doesn't do anything to let you shoot lone operatives?
desert jay
That is also correct
jaunty dawn
Nope haha
atomic apex
it does not
sonic hare
which is kind of silly
wide veldt
So like
Honestly I would be satisfied with changing precision to make more sense
And maybe just giving them something to like
Kill a basic attached leader guy if they roll good
sonic hare
that royal warden in the middle of a bunch of necron warriors? yeah of course we can snipe them
that gigantic spider legged dude sitting behind and overhead the squad of warriors? no way!
wide veldt
Which still wouldn’t be really strong since 90% of sniper models get shut down hard by like
Any kinda invuln
Because it’s one shot
Anyway I’ll admit I’m like
atomic apex
well most of them are also oneshot with not enough damage to actually kill things in one hit
wide veldt
Super biased towards making precision and sniping viable
Because my preferred playstyle IS targeted removal of characters lmao
Not characters specifically because that’s an actual keyword
I like weakening my enemy by taking out specific key guys even tho my frontline isn’t great
rocky shale
Snipers kill stuff like guard characters decently because they're often 3 damage into 3W characters
It's just when it's 5W that it stops being useful.
Vindicares also get a rule to sniper through loneops
jaunty dawn
Sniper squads do better
sonic hare
so assuming you remained stationary thats roughly 8-9 hits with a squad of 10. wounds on a 4 up so 4 wounds. ap -2 against save 3+ so 1 of those is saved. lieutenant survives. did I add that all up correctly?
wide veldt
“Oooo snipers feel bad… except for this popular model for some reason that one is fine :3”
sonic hare
ah okay so on average 120 points of these will take out a lieutenant without a shield
but very unlikely to kill a captain
wide veldt
God damn vindicare
rocky shale
Vindicare is the best sniper, I'd still not call it a super good pick
jaunty dawn
5 kill him 59% of the time, 10 93%
wide veldt
God 10 snipers is so silly lmao
junior summit
Because my preferred playstyle IS targeted removal of characters lmao
yeah the issue with this is the flip side where all your enabler characters get sniped and your army falls apart
wide veldt
I mean fair
jaunty dawn
Why on earth is that what the dog do
wide veldt
My arguement is that they should just make all snipers legends then instead of like purposefully sandbagging an entire type of unit
If they’re that bad for the game
junior summit
They're a safety valve
snipers act as a tech piece if characters get too prevalent and too good
wide veldt
Fair enough
I have more to say on this but I don’t think it’s anything useful
So I’ll just addendum it to
I want my snipers to be good as much as that guy wants his characters to be good lmao
Space marines aren’t a sniper heavy army tho so
:p
jaunty dawn
Eliminators are decent
junior summit
I think its a fairly challenging paradigm to balance
wide veldt
But yeah tbh I still don’t think snipers are actually that bad from what I’ve seen
jaunty dawn
But people mainly take them for their baby las cannons
wide veldt
Like they’re not instantly deleting characters or anything
junior summit
if snipers can oneturn enablers then every character army suffers horribly
wide veldt
But they’re kinda like
junior summit
if they can't they kinda suck
wide veldt
You can still pick off some key units with it
They’re not what I want but I don’t think they’re useless
They might be in competitive but I do not give a shit about tournaments :p
junior summit
personally I think a much safer paradigm is having snipers be high accuracy/consistency low damage long range as kind of an inverse machine gun
wide veldt
Yeah that would also make sense
junior summit
expected damage is comparable to i.e. a heavy bolter but you trade the ability to roll well for consistency
desert jay
I think the lone op thing is more blatant because there’s a lot of pseudo-leader units out there
wide veldt
I think snipers could also be like
Just costed less lmao
And how they are now would be fine
desert jay
With like “while near a vehicle, you have lone op and buff the vehicle”
floral herald
That's honestly kinda good tech imo
It's been so awkward to have tanksitters in a lot of editions
desert jay
It’s good tech! But snipers should be able to shoot the vehicle-buffer characters like they can shoot the squad-buffer characters
jaunty dawn
Its also hard to have snipers rn cause there arent many long fire lanes
desert jay
At whatever level of lethality they decide is appropriate for snipers
jaunty dawn
So range is mostly meanigless
wide veldt
Yeah I think like
floral herald
Its also hard to have snipers rn cause there arent many long fire lanes
Yeah this is probably the bigger thing
wide veldt
Snipers should be able to one turn a mid tier leader character
But enablers for entire armies should require more effort
If that makes sense
floral herald
Since the L maze is pretty necessary for overall play
jaunty dawn
For deathmarks though their deep strike overwatch seems somewhat workable
floral herald
But enablers for entire armies should require more effort
These 2 thing are the same haha
Broadly speaking the design language is that your enablers are the mid-tier squad lead characters and then your really expensive ones are mostly melee demons
wide veldt
…. Okay maybe enablers should be less fragile then
If them dying makes you instantly lose the game
floral herald
Well, that's what the squad of bullet catchers is for
wide veldt
Lmao
Idk like I said this is just a really weird like
On one hand I get what they wanted
floral herald
I mean I think it's pretty straightforward personally, snipers shouldn't be picking individual targets outside of a special hat setup, they should probably return to the era of debuff cannons
junior summit
I think precision is too much of a binary and should be heavily restricted and snipers should just be special weapons
oh lol jinx cyan
floral herald
I think precision is too much of a binary and should be heavily restricted and s...
It's especially acute because Precision is very lopsided in access
desert jay
Its also hard to have snipers rn cause there arent many long fire lanes
I think this is actually fine for keeping snipers in check. If you know there's a sniper there you can avoid stepping your MVP character into sniper's fire lane
floral herald
If you play like 30% of the armies you just don't get it haha
wide veldt
And “they have to feel bad so that character enabler armies can feel good” is kinda
Not great to hear lmao
floral herald
Outside of some strategems
junior summit
It's just too good of a rule because precision is basically "ignore 20+ W worth of chaff"
wide veldt
Yknow what I mean
I’d rather they move them laterally to a different role with like
Very few expensive characters be capable of doing guy killing
Idk don’t take anything I say as more than idle commentary
I have no actual experience so I’m just talking
Yknow what I mean
desert jay
Those unhelmeted expensive characters should be afraid of snipers
wide veldt
REAL
junior summit
yeah limiting access to precision is imo a good thing
it's just a really potent keyword
wide veldt
I do think that motherfuckers should be scared of like
A high cost sniper who does have precision
junior summit
like...lemme put it a different way
junior summit
if there was a gun with a rule that said "treat target as if it had 1/4 of its wound count" that would be really really really dangerous ruleswise, right?
wide veldt
Have something fast drive up and kill them lol
floral herald
And it’s not like there’s 0 counter play
There is essentially no counterplay to Precision
wide veldt
… have something fast kill them?
Sorry I’m genuinely just unclear on why that’s not possible I’m not like
Acting like I know more lmao
jaunty dawn
At the same time though its like part of it is just spending the points on things that kill better cause destroying the whole unit is better than just taking away its rule
When those units also kill units that dont need characters better too
jaunty dawn
Its a very lethal game
wide veldt
I don’t think ratlings should be one turning guys
But the assassin? He
Probably should be allowed to kill a lieutenant
floral herald
Ratlings are ironically a lot better at it
There are a lot (some at least) of things with Precision in sort of unexpected places
wide veldt
Cause it’s 10 shots yeah
Yeah I don’t think ratlings should have precision LMAO
I think my ideal “what should have precision”
Is High point cost glass cannons
floral herald
Like since I play EC some when I hear precision the first thing I think of is Tormentors
wide veldt
Yknow what I mean
jaunty dawn
In 9e vindicare had a fun rule
desert jay
Yeah I don’t think ratlings should have precision LMAO
They're literally like the cute little sniper guys for guard
wide veldt
Not like
Ratlings
To be fair they can still be that without precision
Targeting key units and such
I don’t think they need to be character killers
There could be a rattling character with a big rifle that gets precision
Or smth
Again tho like I said
I think you can still reasonably use snipers that way
And have them be okay
jaunty dawn
wide veldt
Have them shoot the Eldar army’s shining spears before they get to murder people
Yknow
jaunty dawn
Just made resolution funni
wide veldt
That’s extremely funny
rocky shale
Have them shoot the Eldar army’s shining spears before they get to murder people
Every ranged unit already does that and that's why spears suck lmaooo
floral herald
It's funny how many times the Vindicare has gotten bizarre unique rules
floral herald
I think back in 4e it had a bullet to ignore invulns
wide veldt
To be fair the assassin guys have “bizarre unique rule” as their bit
Between the 4 of them
wide veldt
I think back in 4e it had a bullet to ignore invulns
This edition they have a bullet that makes all their wounds crit wounds
(Also gives them a +1 to wounds)
To wound
The roll
Anyway I’m still bringing at least one sniper whenever given the possibility so
¯_(ツ)_/¯
wide veldt
Like even not liking how they are I’m still bringing the snipers
jaunty dawn
Honestly vindicare should just autohit
jaunty dawn
Like cause if you dont use either autohit or autowound or copious rerolls theres a limit to how good you can make a single shot
rocky shale
Eldar snipers: rangers
Actual eldar snipers: rocket launcher skeleton
wide veldt
Also viable for this joke would have been the hammerhead
People talk shit on the hammerhead but it’s great
I love that fella
I think of it less as a tank and more as a mobile railgun platform
desert jay
Honestly vindicare should just autohit
Yesss the 1+
wide veldt
Man it’s really funny cause like
Melee is so important to this game
But I just do not care for it
I am really struggling to like the idea of melee
Idk why
I hope I’m not being too negative in this chat or anything btw lmao
I think I’m not since most the time I’m talking about trying to figure out factions but
soft willow
You need to look deep in your heart and find Khorne.
desert jay
Consider, swords and shit are cool
wide veldt
For sure for sure
I just struggle to get excited about it the same way as like
Huge fuck cannon
rocky shale
You need huge fuck sword
sonic hare
I used to think melee was kind of uninteresting until I found the right models
now I think its cool
soft willow
It's not Warcannon 40k.
wide veldt
Okay to that point there also are way more swords than hammers
soft willow
In 40k yeah.
rocky shale
You need howling banshee + jain zar fight phase
soft willow
But in the OG there were some pretty important hammers.
wide veldt
I think custodes might do it for me w the gunspears
rocky shale
Into whatever big John warhammer blob your opponent thinks is unkillable
wide veldt
Space wolves would but I
Kinda hate how they look
Like the literal models
Actually sorry I like MOST of them
But the werewolf guys..:.
junior summit
you can get by just fine with guns
like there are multiple very gun centric factions
junior summit
tau has an entire detachment that plays one phase a round
wide veldt
:3
I do already know which armies i love but i kinda wanna like
Expand my horizons, thus why I’ve been making a bunch of armies
Yknow what I’ll probably make some wolves
I am too susceptible to propaganda IE listening to a lot of poorhammer recenrly
rocky shale
You gotta listen to real sickos like craftworld eldar
A guy whose channel is just craftworld eldar
rocky shale
Or bricky who is competent until the second he mentions elves at which point he forgets that they're even a faction and completely fails to understand the faction at all
thin ibex
Super late to this, but I feel like, on paper, snipers are actually decent into a lot of factions
Just so happens that there's a strong marine skew, and marines aren't super vulnerable to snipers or strongly impacted by them necessarily
Though I will say, killing a judiciar can really spoil a heroic intervention game plan
Or sniping out jain zar
Also if you're lucky, sniping a warboss on a waaagh turn can really defang a mob of boyz
broken dew
But the werewolf guys..:.
broken dew
Or bricky who is competent until the second he mentions elves at which point he ...
Nobody is perfect
Reminds me i gotta go read some codexes so i can start working in rewriting my Dusk Defiant lore a bit
thin ibex
tau has an entire detachment that plays one phase a round
Hey, Tau are active in 2 phases. We have the movement phase too
reef pagoda
i cant stop seeing night lords for 5 seconds when i see this video game cover
floral herald
wide veldt
My pals were talking about which primarch would do the most damage if they were isekai’d in place of the real world president of the US and Konrad was number one baby
rocky shale
My vote is mortarion
Konrad might try to implement the murderflaying policies until he got nuked but mortarion would start spreading superherpes the second he popped into existence
floral herald
Perturabo honestly
wide veldt
That’s true but mortarion would also be too Emo to do anything
rocky shale
He just has to stand there
paper bluff
I’ve p much only listened to pancreas and poorhammer in my recent fixation
He's a decent sort
Friends with pancreasnw
desert jay
My pals were talking about which primarch would do the most damage if they were ...
Pre-Heresy or post-Heresy?
paper bluff
Perturabo honestly
here's the thing I think perty would be ecstatic
No eye of terror, no emperor to boss him around, he's the smartest around
And he can create freely
desert jay
Yeah if Perty was number one he's not got anything to be petty/jealous/destructive about
paper bluff
So he wouldn't do damage
thin ibex
Its Lorgar, getting the evangelical super PAC right off the bat
paper bluff
If anything he'd be like lex luthor in the red son comics
Utopia out of spite
Now follow up, would alpharius and omegon count as one primarch?
desert jay
Also like pre-heresy Mortarian would do a good job until he gets his first intelligence briefing and realizes he's the tyrant and then have a bit of a freak-out
wide veldt
Pre-Heresy or post-Heresy?
Most recent alive appearance
floral herald
Utopia out of spite
He is still an unimaginative spiteful asshole who can't spell "workweek" without "disproportionate response" :p
paper bluff
I think it is nighthaunter being the most damaging. Well at the start..after that welcome to dictatorship
wide veldt
The demon primarchs also aren’t allowed to magically extinct the planet since they can all do that
thin ibex
I legit think it would be Lorgar, because of how quickly he'd get the support of one massive and wealthy voting block, and then just doom spiral via religious rhetoric and actual demons
desert jay
Ah so Sangy or Horus would have been like abducted off the Vengeful Terror midst climactic battle
wide veldt
Yeag
thin ibex
More power from the start, and apparently hyper charismatic too
rocky shale
Mid battle sanguinius lmao
paper bluff
Oh then prime horus
desert jay
Horus in between killing Sanguinius and fighting dad? Yeah he'd be pretty bad
wide veldt
My HH knowledge is still insanely limited
Mostly because before recently I did not give a shit about space marines at all
paper bluff
Reasonable
desert jay
Lemme put it this way. Horus Ascendant is drinking all four flavors of crazy Chaos juice and accordingly powerful
paper bluff
Best primarchs to come back tho
desert jay
Oh yeah he's just have the power and desire to rule Earth with an iron fist and shape it to the whims of himself and his gods
wide veldt
Fair yeah
paper bluff
Would magnus be good coming back?
rocky shale
And unlike edgy boy even without magically killing everyone he's juiced up enough to probably tank a nuke
desert jay
Magnus is in the running for least bad Chaos primarch choice here
Would probably explode some heads seeing who'd make good sorcerors
wide veldt
Angron got honorable mention for sucking
Not even because murder
But because putting the nails in a bunch of people
desert jay
So here's the thing, I don't think he'd do the nail thing to a non-World Eater
I think Daemon Prince Angron on modern Earth would just murder things all day and not really care about efficiency, just carve his way through a few cities until someone drops a nuke on his face and sends him back to the warp
He's got an insatiable urge to murder as long as he's in the mortal realm but also knows he can't permanently die, so he's just gonna do that until someone shows him the door
Not like he has any grudges to settle here
raven meteor
Custodes.........
wide veldt
Wow some of the space wolf detatchments are
Real strong
Also the sagas are really really cool
This is fucking wild
rocky shale
Blood angels has the same thing
desert jay
More heroes for your herohammer
wide veldt
Sidenote
Really funny that with the way we discussed precision working earlier this does make this character briefly snipeable
floral herald
one short saga
wide veldt
Saga of getting ur shit blown off
broken dew
smoove off
wide veldt
Also man I’m so susceptible to propaganda
broken dew
real
wide veldt
Didn’t care about SW at all til rogue trader had one and now I think they’re Neat
also extremely amused that saga of the beast slayer applies to vehicles
We’re monster hunters
Shoots a truck
We did it
desert jay
Turns out the cool viking wolf dudes are rad, actually
atomic apex
putting together a Thousand Sons list rn, for possible Crusade play later
does this look reasonable?
rocky shale
Having only 5 activations is a little rough but for tsons it still might make sense
wide veldt
What are sekhetar robots hold on
WAOG I have never seen these guys before
These are rad
broken dew
yeah they are pretty sick
atomic apex
they're neat
atomic apex
Having only 5 activations is a little rough but for tsons it still might make se...
it's a little tight yeah
but I did kinda want multiple characters to start with for Crusade stuff, and also still wanted a few Monsters/vehicles
could potentially cut the termies in favor of some more infantry, but not sure
viral crest
I have a Custodes list that is 3 units with an attached character each
I hope it goes well
I'd like to see how it plays before making any changes but am considering swapping out one of the characters for 2-3 units of Sisterd
desert jay
WAOG I have never seen these guys before
They came out just last year
rocky shale
I have a Custodes list that is 3 units with an attached character each
for crusade?
viral crest
Possibly?
rocky shale
Your biggest issue is if you lose 1 unit then you cant stand on enough points to win
viral crest
It's a 1000 point list for trying out and potentially taking into a Crusade if I like it
rocky shale
Itll do better in crusade because there arent usually secondary missions
In either tho youre gonna have to worry about someone playing keep away
wide veldt
They came out just last year
Are they like….. daemon engines?
desert jay
I think they're refurbished Heresy-era robots
viral crest
No they're old robots that the Sons found and use
Apparently they're highly susceptible to daemonic possession though?
broken dew
Lexicanum says they are an advancement based off the Castellax-Achea
desert jay
Apparently they're highly susceptible to daemonic possession though?
Probably from all the sorcery and shit being thrown about when you hang out in the Tsons
viral crest
Yeah
wide veldt
Watching a video on tyranids
Ripper Swarms being 4 guys per model is
REALLY funny
Same as nurglings and scarabs
I’m just very amused
By multiple entities per model
raven meteor
I'm told Ork Shootin is Truly Bad even with the shooty units this edition, but hey, may as well try and make the best of it
rocky shale
Taktikal Brigate lets you get a little silly with it
wide veldt
I wanna make Orks
rocky shale
You drop a big mek in mega armor with flash gits
Attack closest eligible target for +1A
Mek gives rr1 to hit and 4++ against ranged
Enhancement to let the big mek lead gives full hit rrs
Order for +1 to hit
40 attacks, sus1, hit on 4s rr1s, hit on 3s if you didnt move, S6 AP-1 D2
rocky shale
Lootas are similarly wacky with +1 to hit
rocky shale
Are you serious
Orks
Giving them +1 to hit in ranged is wacky when they only hit on 5s normally. Thats just 50% more hits.
dense idol
I'm told Ork Shootin is Truly Bad even with the shooty units this edition, but h...
(outside of the More Dakka incident)
rocky shale
Fun fact you can put them in a trukk and then the trukk has firing deck so it still gets like 30 attacks (doesnt get the mek buff or closest eligble target buff) BUT YOU CAN ORDER THE TRUKK STILL FOR +1 TO HIT
Oh also flash gitz have an ammo runt for 1/game lethals on top of that
And flash gitz are 2W for some reason so theyre T5 4+/4++(ranged) 2W models doing all of that shooting.
Shockingly tough
The 10 lootas + big mek in takikal brigate averages 25 damage to a knight gallant when they use their ammo runt and reroll everything that isnt a 6
wide veldt
Is the other shoota one fun?
rocky shale
Is the other shoota one fun?
More Dakka?
wide veldt
Yeag
rocky shale
It used to be sus2 which was insane wacky shit
Now its just like generic shooty option
If you just want to roll buckets of dice, its better. If you want to be playing tactical orks larping as guardsmen (who happen to get a good shooting buff) then go brigade
More Dakka also supports ork walkers
wide veldt
rocky shale
So if you want a gorkanaught for your shooting list its better maybe?
The "why do these flash gitz have 4++" combo is only in taktikal brigade tho
rocky shale
Its very silly
junior summit
https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_warhammer40000_grotmas_detachment_ork...
I think this got nerfed at some point because you can't double taktiks in the most current rules version and always test but the penalty is only one wound
still good shooting though
brittle salmon
rolling up a crusade list for the same bout Allie is in, how does this look for Deathwatch to start with?
I'm most unsure on running a Fortis KT rather than a Spectrus
The Spectrus are phobos, less firepower but a lot more mobility
quaint compass
I think you may struggle to be consistent against any heavy tank-equivalent units (12T+), but otherwise you're packing a lot of scary shooting and melee and a surprising amount of mobility thanks to Stormlance detachment.
brittle salmon
I think you may struggle to be consistent against any heavy tank-equivalent unit...
I'm on Black Spear
quaint compass
Aight, I was only going on the enhancement
That's going to improve your tank-cracking capabilities with lethal hits and/or susy hits
brittle salmon
Yeah, thats fair, crusade means i can just take any
quaint compass
Yuh, not sure how your crusade decided to handle the "Any Enhancement, Anywhere"
brittle salmon
sour sequoia
Yuh, not sure how your crusade decided to handle the "Any Enhancement, Anywhere"
Currently we are full sending it because the three people who can play 10th are on handicap armies but I’ll have to do another look when I dont have the worst food poisoning of my life lmao
quaint compass
Even if you can turn enemy vehicles into enemy wasicles, you're not going to enjoy anyone with MEQ blenders
quaint compass
Currently we are full sending it because the three people who can play 10th are ...
Montezuma's Revenge 😌
brittle salmon
maybe i just run a Ballistus and get my AT out of the way now...
or Centurion Devs
quaint compass
You're not lacking tank removal but the options you have do need to risk themselves to kill
vital barn
who else is handicapping themselves?
sour sequoia
who else is handicapping themselves?
Currently me and Richard, you’re a funny category as the only person I’d let play GSC if I’m vetoed from it
I do not think any of the others would have a good time on baldoid learning curve
quaint compass
As long as they go world eaters and never stop charging, I think they'll do fine
vital barn
I fully expect to go 0 and 3 before I get the hang of this
brittle salmon
You're not lacking tank removal but the options you have do need to risk themsel...
do you think the terminators or the fortis team are a better replacement here for centurion devs?
vital barn
currently torn between that nice list I showed you and this horrible mess that manages to fit in Reductus + brick of metas
brittle salmon
terminators have the flexibility edge
vital barn
quaint compass
do you think the terminators or the fortis team are a better replacement here fo...
I believe your Terminators is a better pick than the Fortis. Though the Fortis is by far more killy, you will need harder bodies where you can get them on the frontline.
When you threaten the frontline with melee units, its better to have two threats in the opponent's face
But, if you have a plan it's always good to stick to it
Because no matter how much you listen to others, you can't refine tactics you don't pour thought into yourself.
brittle salmon
Because no matter how much you listen to others, you can't refine tactics you do...
i have no real plan i just like the army :')
quaint compass
That's a good plan
Meanwhile my crusade army is just me liking Conversion Beamers
yes, I would love Sustained Hits for any infantry wholly within 6" of my transport
I have nothing nefarious in mind
Don't pay attention to the "Hit rolls of 4+ against targets further than 12" away automatically critical hit" on a unit with a leader that gives out Sussy 2 on their unit
junior robin
horus heresy 2e question: if a non-marine unit gets "Legiones Astartes (X)", do they get the legion specific rule or just count as being part of the same army? like World eaters "violence incarnate"
atomic apex
Meanwhile my crusade army is just me liking Conversion Beamers
Conversion Beamers are very funny
Extra funny if you tack Sustained on them though definitely
quaint compass
They're like one of the few weapons that apply the keyword system to its benefit
and now I must gripe about all the keywords that aren't in the mainline book and are written down on the unit even though the point of them was to avoid unnecessary amount of text in a unit card
One-Shot is in every damn faction. It's the MOST generic of the un-included keywords and it ain't there.
atomic apex
I assume you also have the Thunderkyn in the Hekaton then
quaint compass
Very yes
Ironmaster with Trivärg means Sustained 2 and rerolled wounds of 1
Will reinforce the thunderers once I have the supply and comfortable force to support them
thin ibex
rolling up a crusade list for the same bout Allie is in, how does this look for ...
this is more a narrative perspective, but I feel like you could use like... a command center or some sort of transport thats also narratively their "base"
maybe a storm raven or one of those special kill team transports, i forget what its called
though my commentary is less abou tactical viability and more like
tepid stratus
The Corvus?
thin ibex
yeah the corvus
and more like itd feel right for all those lads to have some kind of transport
damocles rhino time
quaint compass
Deathwatch surfing in on Corvus Corax
atomic apex
Ironmaster with Trivärg means Sustained 2 and rerolled wounds of 1
That also reminds me of a thing I was wondering about
Can you just use the bots on the Iron Master as ablative wounds for the attached unit?
Since AIUI only the Iron Master itself is a Character
quaint compass
It reads pretty much like that
Since you cannot allocate attacks to a Character model, if its part of an attached unit
soft willow
You do in fact use the bots as ablative wounds.
It’s part of why the Iron Master is a baller.
Note that you want to keep the assistant alive for the repair benefit though
quaint compass
Ye, a Bodyguard unit is destroyed when there's only the Character with Leader left
Yes very
We support our hard working kin
atomic apex
I made a Leagues list recently, but went a bit too heavy on Steeljacks I think, just because they seemed neat
raven meteor
Steeljacks ARE neat
atomic apex
I did successfully annoy my girlfriend by again having all my infantry be 6 toughness though 😛
sour sequoia
Steeljacks are digusting and the only reason you dont see more is they mostly got scalped
Hearthguard, thunderkyn, yaegir or however gw spells em also good tho
Really the niche ones are berserks
soft willow
The nice thing about Votann at the moment is pretty much everything is good, and it's very much a what do you want to do kind of faction.
paper bluff
I made a Leagues list recently, but went a bit too heavy on Steeljacks I think, ...
I would want to do a full ironkin army
But right now i'm more thinking about an a o s army
pastel rampart
tired cairn
What is going on with that gas mask lmao
junior robin
I was too distracted by the gold plated multi-melta to even notice that
little bay
the first sister of battle/silence
sour sequoia
Tuff
floral herald
the first sister of battle/silence
Is she? I thought the one in the RT book blasting that space marine was
little bay
perhaps
pastel rampart
https://40k.gallery/sister-sledgehammer/ If we go by the posting below the image it never actually ended up in any official work.
little bay
so more one of the first
pastel rampart
Since an old GW illustrator colleage of mine just got a great deal for one of his old colour pieces I thought it was a good time to trot this old thing out again!! GW never commissioned me for any colour stuff as they typecast me as a black-and-white artist – So I painted this big (approx A1) piece in gouache on art board to show them what I could do!! Despite initial interest they didn’t go for it in the end as they said they were only interested in action scenes, rather than set pieces.
I called her Sister Sledgehammer.
tired cairn
The multi-melta is definitely a custodes'
little bay
early sister of silence then perhaps
floral herald
> Since an old GW illustrator colleage of mine just got a great deal for one of ...
Dang ok
floral herald
so more one of the first
I could also be wrong
Esp with art timelines and publishing timelines not being the same
tepid stratus
'89 was back when they still sold some blisters of female marine models IIRC
junior robin
https://40k.gallery/sister-sledgehammer/ If we go by the posting below the image...
also imagine joining the Collegia Titanica and ending up on knee duty
tepid stratus
Yeah just double checked the female marine blisters where released in 87
SoB officially became a thing in '90 so the art piece in question could go either way without further confirmation
thin ibex
the votann crusade rules are funny
you just get resources
and build stuff to get more resources
soft willow
Yeah you just have your little 4x game going on.
quaint compass
I think the T'au crusade is the neatest shit
tepid stratus
And here is EC players get the drugs we should have had as a core rule all along
quaint compass
and build stuff to get more resources
But you can actually get some assets that aren't more resources
SOME
thin ibex
Tau crusade is good, but word when your crusade is about one planet
tepid stratus
https://tenor.com/view/god-emperor-rainbow-warhammer-40k-gif-14288832
Oh we're gonna do a lot more than just taste the rainbow
quaint compass
Tau crusade is good, but word when your crusade is about one planet
I usually run it as the actions of the expeditionary force your crusade force is part of
thin ibex
My go to was like, lesser satellite worlds and moons in the same system yeah
quaint compass
big thinkers think bigly
reef pagoda
house devine is cool i should read some knight books
a knight seems fun to do especially if youre really good with drills and kitbashing and toys and stuff to really personalise it
paper bluff
Even more so with painting
tranquil ivy
Random Homebrew fact: Due to their nature, the Dusk Wyrms have a tendency to employ a tactic titled: The Red Carpet
The Red Carpet consists of the Wyrms turning their shoulder towards the enemy and pain-training them by running into them at top speed
this is usually employed by Dusk Wyrms with more heavily armored shoulder pads
and some apply spikes to their arms for this purpose
wide veldt
The two non-saga space wolf detatchments bother me immensely
viral crest
Hm
Question that will become relevant
Does anyone have advice for handling an uneven amount of players in a Crusade?
(Please ping with responses)
dense sedge
wide veldt
Made a flavor list of OC solves, i think i wanna make a successor chapter of monster hunty guys
Not really using the monster hunter detachment but that’s because I kinda hate that one lmao
wide veldt
Also used the only generic wolf lord even tho he’s legends
pale narwhal
Hm
Question that will become relevant
Does anyone have advice for handling an ...
Generally speaking I’ve seen tournaments and leagues just have one person who sits out per round if there’s an uneven number- said person getting max scoring for their troubles (you’d have to figure out what that looks like for your specific crusade- x amount of xp to all units, y agendas accomplished, z faction crusade progression, etc)
pastel rampart
broken dew
Such is the power of Nagash...
deft crest
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/96164653377273856/1463498181965905982/v24...
This is a pairing that i'm all here for
paper bluff
This is a pairing that i'm all here for
Yes and I can see the dynamic being nagash trying to replace khorne as skarbrand's patron
upper canopy
vital barn
I am setting up a GSC army for a crusade and as far as I can tell the answer is "incredible opportunities for emergent comedy"
you have 50 different squads of dirt cheap paper thin guardsmen and you randomly hide half a dozen nuclear hand grenades on them, then laugh when a daemon primarch gets deleted by the contents of your local garden centre
also instead of taking cawl in every army you have a random Hot Wheels car that can designate people for instant death by sneezing in their general direction
floral herald
What the fuck are they putting in the tools in the year 40K
vital barn
a lot apparently
it has the exact same appeal as the OSP from Nebulous Fleet Command except even more so
and I am an inveterate OSP player
floral herald
Huh, that makes sense
vital barn
also it allows you to be very chill about having your units die
basically everything has the durability of a wet paper bag so if 10 terminators show up and eradicate one of your squads your usual response is to send in another five gigachumps
I suspect I am going to take a large number of Ls before I figure out how to play them
sour sequoia
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/899605793068945418/1463897221706809427/im...
Damn I only had the version that cut off at Good Question but the full version is still funny as fuck
In exchange:
jaunty dawn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/899605793068945418/1463897221706809427/im...
Iirc they said this abt monokroot and catachan back in the day
Partially cause monokroot was just kroot but with more units and catachan rules
And they were just like this army list is for narrative missions set in a jungle where you just murder the other person
tired cairn
GSC rabble can use a tool meant for mining immobile rocks on a mobile military target and still hit on a 3+. Meanwhile admech needs to upload the right subroutines so their dedicated and highly trained melee fighters can do the same
soft willow
That GSC hit on a 3+ and Votann do not is immesurably frustrating.
sour sequoia
Points and laughs at the 41st millennium’s NFT guys as I powersaw their apes with the rest of the boys
Funnily enough applies to both admech and votann here
tepid stratus
Sure but that cultist grew a third arm just to mine better. Clearly the kin just aren't thinking big enough
vital barn
to be fair the admech's highly trained and dedicated melee fighters are also stamped out by the thousand and they're not exactly bad
ruststalker go brrr
deft crest
Damn I only had the version that cut off at Good Question but the full version i...
this feels like how demons feel too lmfao
sour sequoia
If I was the Kin I’d simply stop unionbusting
vital barn
really can't complain that Conqueror Protocol doesn't blend things well enough
tired cairn
Ok. Fair. Though it took a few balance patches to get there, ha
Had to update the Conqueror Protocol codebase
soft willow
If I was the Kin I’d simply stop unionbusting
Unionbusting? Kin are functionally unions the whole way down. They just all agree that your planet is theirs because you aren't fighting hard enough to keep it.
sour sequoia
This actually makes the GSC/votann matchup even funnier when their tanks all get dogwalked by ten guys with milwaukee saws and then everyone has to desperately inch up the table
thin ibex
how is the votann/gsc match up?
soft willow
Honestly terrifying for the GSC player.
Votan have decent volume fire that can rip through the chaff. Ironically the GSC characters pose the most issues.
tired cairn
Is a GSC player sort of a "more afraid of you than you are of them" situation
soft willow
Not always?
They have specific scary units and then a lot of chaff and played well can be a nightmare to deal with.
That said they can't just flood you and expect to win.
tired cairn
They sound fun. But I really do not need a third army. Especially a mega horde one
soft willow
Ha ha! Yeah. 
Who needs a third army that's a horde. 😅
stares in my fourth army is agents
vital barn
I have zero table experience of either army here so I may be talking complete nonsense but it does strike me that votann may not appreciate the sheer number of "take a few mortals" buttons GSC has given their infantry are tanky and low wound count
local biker throws grenade, kills half a squad, shredded by conversion beamer
soft willow
I have played the matchup, and it sucks if they can get in.
vital barn
I'm setting up my Crusade GSC army and it's funny how all my crusade progression seems to be focused on turning a bunch of random characters into cruise missiles
soft willow
But the shooting is killy enough to get past a lot of the tankiness outside of the lone op and the big abberation guys.
vital barn
I'm half tempted to drop something to fit a sanctus in at 1k because once he hits 31xp he picks up an anti-infantry 3+ devwounds knife, full rerolls and another relic that lets him basically get an autocharge 1/game, so he can just trade out for the character of your choice
this is probably not sane of me
tired cairn
The mega horde army having a large number of characters is kind of funny
vital barn
but at the same time lol lmao
soft willow
Einhyr do a silly amount of the work against GSC now that I think about it.
thin ibex
I kinda want to do a valkyrie laden drop troop crusade tempestus list for crusade, but I have no experience playing guard
rocky shale
Hm
Question that will become relevant
Does anyone have advice for handling an ...
In my last crusade we would have one person play two matches and they'd count normally for xp and stuff but they wouldn't get extra strategic points for winning
It worked well
sour sequoia
Honestly terrifying for the GSC player.
Would counter actually that its pretty favorable because once you pop the transports and bikes the votann have zero board control
The bummer abt Votann is you can completely deny their army mechanics by not doing aggressive early pushes, or otherwise stickying and then moveblocking off points
Outlander Claw is almost autolose for Votann, the others are trickier but still favored
soft willow
Only the first half of their army rule, when they flip which can be done on turn 2 it's not in your control.
I don't think it's as auto lose as you expect here.
sour sequoia
Only the first half of their army rule, when they flip which can be done on turn...
Yeah, but you can’t do that without standing on objectives yourself and once they do that then you can OC scam them back
soft willow
Also shooty steeljacks cook a lot of your stuff.
Worth playing more of to find out I suppose.
sour sequoia
Oh yeah shooty steeljacks are wild. That unit especially is a priority
I am 4 for 5 on wins into votann and the one was because shooty steeljacks
soft willow
Yup.
I think the factional problem with Votann right now is that you can do anything, but you can't build your list for everything.
sour sequoia
Stathammer’s got it 58% favoring GSC
Which is actually slightly higher than I expected
soft willow
Yeah that's probably realistically how games are going.
sour sequoia
I should check brandfast, that detach specifically is I think what scares us
soft willow
I also think a lot of people are playing Votann poorly vs fewer GSC people who aren't dedicated army specialists.