Warhammer and Such

[wide veldt]

Man tau v knights is a great matchup for tau cause it’s so cheap to just

Keep their whole army spotted

[rocky shale]

Toss on a strat for +1 AP and now you're averaging 12.5 wounds on a big knight

[thin ibex]

I'm late to the conversation about it, but I want more war gear, but I want compelling reasons to take all of it as well as a compelling reason to take default, beyond cost

[rocky shale]

And the thing about breachers is while that does solid damage to a knight, it does crazy damage on things that are T6 or less.

[wide veldt]

Man I wanna find a reason to use the gun drone

But god it’s just

Not as good as shield lmao

[thin ibex]

Breachers can punch God with a fireblade, a stealth team spotting, coordinated exploitation, and that one strat for more AP

[rocky shale]

Shield is good for battlesuits not for infantry

[thin ibex]

Kinda depends, gun drone on fireblade can get extra AP

[rocky shale]

Since its just +1 wound for that model

[thin ibex]

And more shots in general only gives you more potential failed rolls

[wide veldt]

That’s true yeah the Sargeant in a fire squad having 2 wings is like

Nothing

[thin ibex]

Shield buys you a big maybe on having that unit around to spot next round

[wide veldt]

True yeah

[thin ibex]

Which, to be fair, can be pretty useful

But gun drone is generally more useful on like breachers and such

I actually bring shield on strike team and stealth team

You'd be surprised how often a stealth sgt lives with one wound

And how a strike team sgt can, on occasion, be a true hero with a markerlight

[viral crest]

Oh are they that bad?

I... probably should use Breachers for what I'm using my Strike Team for, but Pulse Rifles :sob;

[rocky shale]

S6 AP1 is a crazy good shooting profile for infantry. And RR wounds on objectives is way more useful than the suppression. Make up for the short range by stuffing them in a devilfish.

Experimental weapons cadre also gives them 16" range which is very good

Strike teams can be like OK random chaff but they aren't nearly as killy

[jaunty dawn]

Oh strike teams dont get good overwatch anymore

[mental birch]

If people insit i place drones

I will refuse to move them aside

[paper bluff]

I really want to try tts warhammer 40k but I don't know what are the good ones

Models wise

[wide veldt]

yo reading genestealers

cult ambush rocks

[wide veldt]

A blood brothers list seems like a really fun one

[vital barn]

GSC have very stylish rules this edition

playing against them in 7e and 8e was effectively waterboarding but now they seem really fun, and Cult Ambush is probably the best-implemented respawning chaff system I've seen in a GW game

I'd start them if they didn't do quite so much damage to your bank account

[rocky shale]

I vaguely recall brood brothers being pretty bad but you'd have to summon Gyr to actually know

[wide veldt]

oh im sure but its cool

[rocky shale]

It's definitely a fun detschment for list building regardless

IIRC the one that's tyranid soup is pretty ok

[wide veldt]

thats the other one i wanna make

[tired cairn]

I think primarily on the back of so many lone ops lol

(particularly since the Tyranid ones are so cheap for what you get)

[rocky shale]

A good list is a good list, no matter how silly it is

Fighting 3+ lictors is a nightmare

[pastel rampart]

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/dorn-tank-rc-parts

[sour sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/glow-in-the-dark-stick-man-glowing-walk-walking-gif-17406626

Okay brood brothers is really dumb and it technically has play my opinion has changed on it

I’ll be so real though if you wanna do traitor guard, Host of Ascension, Xenocreed, and Biosanctic are all going to feel better

Brood Bros has exactly 2 lines of play: Tucker Rickey’s worlds list and then 120 neophytes with feel no pains and like 120 kriegers

But GSC is correctly the actual coolest army in the game its putting a pipe bomb and mike tyson inside a lunchbox and playing stupid shell games

[rocky shale]

I just looked up this list and boy howdy I don't get it

Is it just... Deep striking krieg flamer teams?

[sour sequoia]

Tucker Rickey is a freak of nature

17 year old

[rocky shale]

Hahaha

[sour sequoia]

Krieg flamer teams shoot on death and provide disgusting overwatch threat to let you get aggressive under adult supervision

Attilans and kasrkin are perfectly situated to turn on your detach rule or still function without orders (kasrkin still order themselves)

Final Day’s strengths mostly come from 2+ BS ridgerunners, 2+ WS/3+ BS rockgrinders, aberrants n aboms hitting on 2s with full wound rerolls, and ridiculous support for hyperadapted ravs—only lone op bug I run anymore is deathleaper

[floral herald]

Oh huh I didn’t realize hyperadapted ravs saw play there

[wide veldt]

Okay I guess like

Do you think my list of it is like

Functional at a glance?

I don’t really need it to be good

I want to have the GSC roll out a leman Russ

Yknow

CSM has a traitor guard detachment right?

Also I’m gonna be in this channel a lot tonight I’m working night shift and got new recruit on my phone

[sour sequoia]

Hmmm

[sour sequoia]

Okay things I would do: not run the magus.

I cannot stress enough the magus is three way tied for worst model in the game with the commissar outside of Grizzled Veterans or the necron Obelisk. You will not have fun with a magus over any other character

The big thing goliath capacity 12 is for a 10-man of metamorphs or neophytes with a character and then like, a lone op or something.

If you’re gonna go over 10 on neophytes you’re paying for 20 with how 10e works so I’d just go for 20 and deep strike em. Try with a Benefictus

[wide veldt]

Yeah I was thinking of running around with uhhhhh

Putting the patriarch

And his boys

In it

They’re kinda fast tho so maybe they don’t need it

I’m ngl I still haven’t actually played a match so a lot of stuff in my head when im making it is theoretical

[sour sequoia]

That can work, at least to give em a scouting tin can. 10 Metamorphs and a biophagus or a Benefictus 10-man is the best possible synergy tho I promise you

[wide veldt]

Also I’m sad to hear that about uh

Magus

Mind control looks like it should be really funny

[sour sequoia]

The Magus is abysmal dogshit and a very far cry from what she used to be

Because it used to remove her unit as an eligible target.

[wide veldt]

…. Oh shit yeah it doesn’t

Ohhhhh noooooo

[sour sequoia]

1-in-6 chance to blow herself up for uhhhh Stealth vs one unit

[wide veldt]

Ohhhhhhhhhh

[sour sequoia]

Fifty point dipshit. Iconward is fifty point dipshit who gives a 5+ FNP to your reanimating shitmen, or a 4+ in metamorphs. Attaches to all the same units and doesn’t delete their scout if they have scout

[wide veldt]

Yeah

[sour sequoia]

At least once a month someone asks me to help them make a Fluffy Brood Brothers list or run the magus, I tell them no, they run it and have a terrible time and get mad at me for not warning them Enough lol

[wide veldt]

So why is brood brothers so bad

I know soup is usually either really buster or abysmal dogshit

[floral herald]

The brief version is that it leans into guys who lack their strong rules and don’t benefit so well from your strong rules so you gotta do contortions to make it work

[sour sequoia]

Guard units w/ orders: fantastic
Guard units at same price point with no orders and little to no support from the detach: overcosted trash in the faction comprised 90% of extremely competitive and efficiently priced trash

[wide veldt]

And very rarely ever in between

Okay but what about guard armor like tanks

Which GSC notably lacks

[sour sequoia]

It does and doesn’t, and it doesn’t have any way to buff em

Rogal Dorns n Lemans hitting on coinflips is gonna be rough

[wide veldt]

I do have to say the abominant and the aberrant squad seems really fun

[sour sequoia]

They are extremely fun and they are frankly equivalent to sitting a tank on a point. You need overwhelming shooting to deal with them, touching them in melee at all is one of the biggest Play Stupid Games Win Stupid Prizes in the game

[floral herald]

So much of playing imperial guard is “the quest for better ballistic skill” haha

[sour sequoia]

Yesterday I had 5 and an abominant bunt two forgefiends, two helbrutes, and a khorne lord of skulls in Vashtorr’s detachment for two rounds

[wide veldt]

I also love that they’re just like

[sour sequoia]

And then the abominant takes 4 swings with a lascannon either wounding anything but T13 units on 2s & 2d3 mortals each time he falls over, or +1 to hit getting full wound rerolls

A 15 point enhancement in Biosanctic makes the abominant hit as hard as the nightbringer

5 swings str 12 AP-5 D6+2 damage

(And aforementioned +1 to wound and grenades on death)

[wide veldt]

Death guard levels of “eh I do not feel like die today”

I also wanna make a death guard army

I wanna TRY and make one list minimum for every army just to like

Understand them

Like if I face off against genestealers now I know murdering their leaders, as with tyranids, just

Fucks them so hard

[sour sequoia]

Aberrants is the answer to lacking “armor” basically

[wide veldt]

That makes sense

Cult of the final day looks

So fun

But is just such a depressing narrative lmao
I almost wanna make them Egypt themed as like

A nod to amonkhet from magic

Because I feel like it’s SUPER similar

This divine moment of arrival that becomes this grand religious betrayal

Is DOTFC like

Any better

Than brood

I unfortunately love the idea of soul detachments

*soup

[sour sequoia]

Final Day is one of the most batshit insane detachments in the game but it is also a few steps harder than Assumed Baseline GSC which already has probably the highest skillfloor of any army

[wide veldt]

Okay so like

Maybe

Wait on that

[sour sequoia]

If you like it do it but oh man

[wide veldt]

What I’m getting is:
make an entirely new army with a different detachment because this is disappointing

And I will not be happy with it

Are…. The traitor guard good…. In CSM….

My final hope

[sour sequoia]

My bigger question is are you playing TTS or physical models

[wide veldt]

TTS

[sour sequoia]

Just play shit

[wide veldt]

lol I’m using physical GSC

*not using

I do not have that money

Or that ability to paint!

[junior summit]

if you want to run traitor guard why not just run normal guard with themed models?

[sour sequoia]

I am the only person in history who bought an entire GSC playset without playing it first and Liked The Army and I cannot recommend doing this for anybody else ever

[wide veldt]

That’s… true

[thin ibex]

There are a lot of reasons why soup is seen as bad. My honest advice is just run soup anyway, try the multi faction detachments and decide for yourself

[wide veldt]

I like the CSM also

Idk

I could

But I learned it was an official thing now

And I was intrigued

Yknow

[rocky shale]

Kinda? They have a cultist detachment that traitor guard count as cultists in.

[wide veldt]

Hm
Okay I have a Necrons list, Admech, IG, Genestealers and Tau

[sour sequoia]

Pretty much every soup detach except the admech knights one and Broodbrothers is very good in 10th

[wide veldt]

Now I need to remake genestealers and wanna make a pure tau army because I’m an asshole

Sorry

Pure Kroot

The full Kroot army concept is like

Too funny

To not make

It doesn’t seem like it would be… great

Given they don’t get the army mechanic lmao

But I wonder what army I should like

Look into next

[rocky shale]

Elf list building is at a state currently of utterly deranged throwing shit at the wall because our two best strats got nuked lol

[sour sequoia]

Kroot list is actually incredible but it is very much its own thing

[thin ibex]

Pure kroot is actually quite strong

I forget if it's still our strongest, but it certainly was for a while

[wide veldt]

I like big ass characters, I’m kinda fond of like….

Big impactful hits

Also monsters

[sour sequoia]

Playing GSC is gonna feel funny as shit then lmao the abominant is a 40mm base smaller than a primaris space marine

[rocky shale]

Aspect host Aeldari gets 2/3 or 3/3 if you bring the avatar

[wide veldt]

I was really looking at eldar yeah

Especially since they semirecently got all those sexy new aspect models

I kinda wanna mix aspect with the wraiths

Harlequins are cool but like…. Without their own army they feel

Weird

[rocky shale]

Unfortunately there's basically no incentive to touch wraiths

[junior summit]

there is pantheon of woe if you want to run lots of c'tan

also knights

[wide veldt]

Oh? They’re that bad?

[rocky shale]

Wraithlords are like not criminally bad in some lists for casual play

The rest are pretty awful because they have mandatory psyker babysitters

And the wraith detachment sucks

[rocky shale]

Serpents Brood is a good detachment

People like the clowns in cars

I haven't tried it myself because I'd need a lot more clowns

If you're running like warhost and you want to drop a couple wraithlords in the list with a spiritseer to be overpriced war walkers then they're fine, but they really don't have good synergy with just about anything.

[raven meteor]

I do find it funny that the wraith constructs Really Want a psyker escort and a farseer can't like
Lead
Them

[rocky shale]

They don't get the army rule outside of the wraith detachment

Nothing leads them

[raven meteor]

Yes this is what I'm saying

[rocky shale]

Spiritseer gets lone op near them but that's it

You often just use bike warlocks

Precodex spiritseers could lead 10 bricks of wraithguard/blades and could attach to lords but that made it hard to actually have a full army because you couldn't run more than 3 wraith units without them being unbuffed.

[wide veldt]

Oh boy

[rocky shale]

It also made your wraithlords get blasted by the anti infantry keyword

[wide veldt]

Oh

[raven meteor]

It's like if a Datasmith couldn't lead Kastelans and just had to stumble after them

[rocky shale]

At the very start of 10th wraiths were insane so they're in forever jail

[wide veldt]

What do yall think about me running both of the GSC assassins

Both variants

Knife and rifle

I feel like it’s okay

[rocky shale]

Ive only ever seen people run knife

But rifle does exist

[wide veldt]

I just like snipers and blowing the head off a psyker seems funny

[rocky shale]

Oh wow nvm that sniper is pretty bad lol

Compared to the knife

[sour sequoia]

Snipers in general are rough for shape of the game

[rocky shale]

3 damage won't even kill a majority of the psykers in the game

[sour sequoia]

Versus the knifeboy being “I paid 50pts to score perfect recover assets/establish locus/sabotage/behind enemy lines/cleanse”

[wide veldt]

He’ll just be there for… moral support….

[rocky shale]

He can still do actions and stuff which for 50 points is fine lol

[wide veldt]

I’m running casual tho with friends so like

[sour sequoia]

Reductus Saboteur is maybe best 65pt lone op in the game, kelermorph is also Decent but I’d rather just have more reductus or knifeboys

[wide veldt]

Yeah I think I can afford a kinda terrible guy

[rocky shale]

But the "you can't overwatch me" rule lends itself to the knife freak

[sour sequoia]

A reactive move 50pt lone op deepstrike infiltrate stealth is amazing

But the knife has that with no overwatch so he’s just unreactable

[wide veldt]

But yeag what army should I read next

[rocky shale]

I popped a sanctus with Ishas fury once and the guy was so sad

[wide veldt]

GSC I don’t actually wanna play til I’m better at the game lol

[rocky shale]

Legally distinct overwatch

[wide veldt]

Oh yeah aspect warrior

Duh

Also curious about Drukhari

[sour sequoia]

AdMech if you want shitmen, Scintillating Legion if you want big boys

[rocky shale]

Drukhari are wonky for figuring out how they actually work

[sour sequoia]

Drukhari good but weird really tight range rn

[rocky shale]

They have a ton of moving parts to make boat elves actually do stuff

[wide veldt]

What is scintillating legion

[sour sequoia]

Tzeentch Daemons

[wide veldt]

Oooo

I have actually made an Admech army a while ago

Last time I tried to get into 40k

But the obsession is

Much stronger rn

[raven meteor]

Sisters of Battle

[rocky shale]

Admech is currently awesome if you like cawl

You will run cawl

[wide veldt]

I….

Am split on cawl

I wanna be open to liking him

[rocky shale]

He is a second army rule

[wide veldt]

But being the only named Admech model uh

Pisses me off

Kinda

It sucks imo

[rocky shale]

You can pretend he's a generic arch magos

[raven meteor]

lmaoooo

[wide veldt]

Like

There’s so many cool guys

[rocky shale]

But he's going in that list

[wide veldt]

In Ad Mech Lore

But just go fuck yourself Cawl

[rocky shale]

Nope you get tall boy

[raven meteor]

Archmagos Trismegistus Yehl
Legally distinct

[wide veldt]

Hm

Yeah

Oh I need to make a new Admech list anyway my old one looks like it exploded lol

As well as my IG

[rocky shale]

Oh cool new recruit is adding a tabletop battles app tracker thingy

[raven meteor]

I want to try IG but I already know my approach to IG will be deeply wrongheaded
Because I like all the elite units way more than the basic blobs

Ripper Guns my beloved

Melta lances, my beloved

(Though I hear Bullgryns are good as plain old Point Holders)

[rocky shale]

This list is probably like $2000 msrp

[wide veldt]

Oh I also wanna dabble in both flavors of marine

At some point

But like I said eventually I wanna have made at least a list for everyone

Maybe even votann when I get over my

Immense sadness

That their range gives me

[rocky shale]

They just got a range expansion

[wide veldt]

Coolest fucking lore ever and then just the guys
Oh what’s in it?

[rocky shale]

They have a pretty decent chunk of units now

[raven meteor]

Space Marines, to be fair, ARE neat
Brutalis Dreadnought.....

[wide veldt]

Okay wait looking at Vashtorr btw

There’s no way we don’t get dark admech next edition right

Cause this guy is like…. Obviously for that lmao

[junior summit]

imo snipers as they currently stand are hard to have be good without just turning off leader dependent armies

it's an awkward dynamic ig

[rocky shale]

He came out last edition

Soooo do with that what you will

[wide veldt]

Coughing

[vital barn]

Snipers are busy rocking people's shit in Horus Heresy, where there are a lot more expensive but relatively fragile marine HQs around

[wide veldt]

Oh shit really

[sour sequoia]

I won’t lie, with the current status of ultramarines I’d prefer we had big ones. Maybe they’ll learn what everyone playin the real game did and tuck em around a wall

[vital barn]

I have been tempted by the new Vindicare but even if I wanted snipers I think double stiltman would do better for the points cost

[sour sequoia]

I am so fuckin bored of Titus Calgar Cato 18 Victrix Go

[vital barn]

two angles to hold + can do objectives

[wide veldt]

Ngl 10e seems like kinda a low spot from everything I’ve seen lmao

[raven meteor]

For what it's worth, it's very likely there will be a chaos Ironkin bumming around in the next big release, so maybe more Vashtorr stuff coming?

[junior summit]

complaining is like 30% of the 40k experience

[raven meteor]

This seems true

[vital barn]

coming from a giant grognard, 10e is at least at the possibility frontier for the "playability vs delicious stylish crunch" tradeoff

[sour sequoia]

10th is legitimately overall the best the game has been in my time and I’ve been playing since 5th

[junior summit]

and bear in mind that every edition has had balance problems and weird issues and "GW why"

it's just unavoidable

[vital barn]

like, I might want more crunch and more options personally but at least it traded it for something, which is being a good and playable game

[sour sequoia]

I’ll accept Slim beating my ass cuz he’s even older. Nobody else lulw

[wide veldt]

Mhmhm

[junior summit]

also importantly 10th runs way faster than earlier editions so you can actually get a game done in a reasonable amount of time

[vital barn]

whereas like 9e is miserably failing at either

[wide veldt]

Oh really?

[rocky shale]

This is my first edition but from what I've heard from people I play with it's the easiest edition to just have fun games with people without worrying if your lists are just wildly unbalanced vs each other

[junior summit]

yeah old 40k was largely solved

[sour sequoia]

9th was dookie dogshit start to finish tbh the only people missing it are Iron Hands fans who started with their codex supplement and then Tzeentch Daemons rerollable 2++

Army Wide

[paper bluff]

It's always funny to me that when we say that it really means four hours

[junior summit]

there were dramatic balance problems in every edition and frankly being able to get a balance dataslate a quarter is a huge improvement

[vital barn]

it's so funny that Tzeentch got to do that again after spending all of 7e running around with rerollable 2++ screamers

[paper bluff]

I think I'm kind of four bringing back equipment cost for some stuff.

[vital barn]

how did they not catch that

[junior summit]

to clarify, a rerollable 2++ is a 97.3% damage reduction

[sour sequoia]

“The average space marine player is so fuckin dumb we’re giving you all free transports for every unit and free permanent army wide Armor Of Contempt now please get to 51% WR”

Real 9th Ed Footage

[vital barn]

somehow they brought back all the worst bits of 7th but without the options

[junior summit]

you would need to hit stuff with 36x its wounds in damage to kill it which was silly

[vital barn]

free transports was the old 7e Demi-Company buff

lasplas razorbacks, everywhere

[wide veldt]

Yeah I actually do feel like

[vital barn]

amazingly it was not even top three armies

[wide veldt]

Some stuff being point costed but not everything

Might he good

[vital barn]

neither was Warconvo, which got all wargear free in an edition where one of the Admech plasma LMGs was 30pts

[raven meteor]

My first 1000 point game took a combined total of maybe 7 hours split across seperate days and ended with a concession in the third round so
It being speedy to run is appreciated 😭

[wide veldt]

I do want more character customization back

With like gear and stuff

[junior summit]

I think the other thing with points costs is that the more in depth points costs get the more work it is to make sure that you actually got the numbers right

[vital barn]

GW in previous editions had a serious issue with all wargear being priced in 5pts increments

[rocky shale]

I'd much rather have a slightly more bland game that I can just roll down to the lgs and do a game and have a good time with than a super crazy flavorful one that requires an hour of preplanning to make sure we aren't going to just ruin each other's lives

[sour sequoia]

I can run my GSC in 80 minutes per player and be capable of playing two more games in a day

This is not possible in previous editions

[junior summit]

i.e. in battletech C3 scales BV costs with the number of mechs in the network in a really annoying way and consequently "oops my list is missing 30% of its actual cost" isn't unheard of

[vital barn]

really these days I would probably do something like "this squad may take 2 special weapons (20pts)" and have that cost hold for giving the squad any of the ones they could take

same for fancy melee weapons and stuff

you want the points cost to differentiate between Shitty Guns and Good Guns, not to balance those categories among themselves

because it's kind of hard to find a world where a guardsman who has free choice between a lasgun and a plasma gun has a meaningful reason to pick the former

but flamer vs plasma gun should be a profiles choice not a nickel-and-diming choice

[wide veldt]

Mhmhm

I am agreeing

That makes sense to me

Simplify but don’t remove

[vital barn]

"everything has a highly specific wargear cost" and "nothing has wargear costs" both end up with large parts of the gear range being totally dead entries, I don't think either approach is better in that department

[rocky shale]

I do generally agree that this is the way.

List building in older editions has more dials to turn but that doesn't really make it a better game to actually play.

[vital barn]

but I have seen a big wargear list done well, it just has to be in the right place

like, HH3e Mechanicum has an entire page of Magos options between guns, melee weapons, fancy toys and their cool hacking spells

[wide veldt]

Correct me if I’m wrong but enhancements used to be like

Generic character customization warhead

[vital barn]

and as far as I can tell only four of the options are duds out of about 50

[wide veldt]

*wargear

[rocky shale]

For HH it makes a lot more sense since so many weapons are shared

[wide veldt]

And you could buy traits for your like

Custom guys

[vital barn]

HH3e mechanicum is almost exactly where I want my levels of customisation to be

except I can't put a jump pack on a magos

fix that and I'm happy

[jaunty dawn]

I think the biggest issue with enhancements vs relic + warlord trait is combining two options is exponentially more possibilities

[vital barn]

it's not like the relic + warlord trait thing was ever particularly good for making fluffy guys

[jaunty dawn]

Especially since most of the time youre probably running a detachments three good enhancents regardless

[vital barn]

HH did fine with only a warlord trait and Actually Having Options

psyarkana was neat but not vital

(also divining blades needed to get into the bin)

[jaunty dawn]

I think it depends on the codex as with everything but like

Hh doesnt even have warlord traits anymore and what is left does not add up to a cool relic lol

[wide veldt]

So is HH/30k like

Cool

[jaunty dawn]

Like the implied ubiquity of wargear kinda prevents it from being hugely characterising

[thin ibex]

im like... really most interested in like special weapon options being all balanced against one another. I do not want any false options

[vital barn]

you're really going to struggle with that one

[rocky shale]

It's cool if you like getting into a lot of detail about your imperial dudes

[jaunty dawn]

Especially since it already coexists with the wt+relic so

[vital barn]

even in 10e, there are a bunch of just dud units

Archaeopter isn't getting anything done

the game is too big for there not to be local suboptima

[jaunty dawn]

Idk flamers are good finally

[rocky shale]

I don't think you can reasonably have a game as big as 40k without dead options

[vital barn]

especially when there are 100000 space marine units

every tank they take is going to be the best of five competing almost identical tanks, the rest of which will not see the table if you're optimising

[thin ibex]

very true, not denying that, but I think delineation via minute cost doesn't contribute to that dream of mine

On like a heavy weapons team, its always lame to me when theres just one gun out of the, say, 4, that is only worth taking

[vital barn]

yeah, but I don't think the hard rule of "no wargear costs ever ever" helps with that at all

especially when the HWT is an option

the four guns should ideally be internally balanced and all cost the same, in my handbook

[rocky shale]

The biggest contributor to dead options is when there's just another unit that does the same thing but better. So like a lascannon hwt may have its niche but a hb hwt might be out competed by something else with heavy bolters.

[vital barn]

hilariously this also makes it genuinely hard to nerf certain armies, or at least it did in previous editions, I'm no expert on 10e balance

if you nerfed a Marine unit in 7e they just went to the previously totally eclipsed alternative unit that was 95% as good for the cost

[desert jay]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that happened in 8 and 9 and 10 too

[rocky shale]

Yeah still happens

[vital barn]

whereas if you nerfed something like, I don't know, the Onager Dunecrawler that army was just kinda fucked

[rocky shale]

Especially for big armies

[vital barn]

I was going to say the Leman Russ but there were 5000 alternate guard tanks from Forge World back then so I'm sure they could have found something

[desert jay]

Marines have more datasheets in the roster than like... the eight or nine smallest-roster armies combined

[jaunty dawn]

I think in sisters they were playing whack a mole with all their cheap dice chaff

[vital barn]

and Russes were a total rubbish fire anyway

[desert jay]

Though in 10e, rule of three can mean you have three of the really good unit and then two of the almost-as-good unit

[wide veldt]

Been thinking custodes too

I like a lot of not super elite armies

IG, Tau, Necrons (although they’re more elite)

[raven meteor]

Just a few days ago I was looking at Emperor's Children like
'hey so'
'is this like a list of bonus units EC gets to take on top of the CSM roster or'

[wide veldt]

Would be nice to just throw like

11 guys

[raven meteor]

3 Ares Gunships and a Telemon Heavy Dreadnought 🧠

[wide veldt]

I love how dumb and bad the 200 aircraft are

Everytime I like

Look back into 40k

They’re still bad

[desert jay]

IIRC, Heldrake is legit good except for the fact it doesn't have enough enemy planes to eat

[vital barn]

custodes are unfortunately still as one-note as ever

pretty fun to have the Goldiest Boys though

[raven meteor]

Aircraft are so weird
The whole flyover forced leaving the battlefield stuff

[jaunty dawn]

Heldrake should be able to set people on fire again

[wide veldt]

Isn’t there a seperate game

[jaunty dawn]

I dont mean models I mean the other player

[wide veldt]

For the planes and shit

[jaunty dawn]

Its effectively discontinued

[wide veldt]

Damn that makes sense tho there

Did not seem like a lot of people playing it

[desert jay]

Like the 10e Heldrake stats is like one of the best AA units, and it's got decent anti-ground too but decent isn't enough

[jaunty dawn]

But the space marine planes got repackaged for legions imperialis

[vital barn]

Titanicus has a small but loyal playerbase because it fucks, the other 6mm games less so in my experience

LI does OK

[jaunty dawn]

And a handful of imperial planes but not all of them

And they still sell a rulebook for those planes iirc

[desert jay]

LI looks pretty cool but people don't like it's a second Imperium-fest next to heroic-scale Horus Heresy

[vital barn]

also Titanicus exists and is both easier to play and really good

genuinely tightest GW ruleset ever produced

[jaunty dawn]

I think for a lot of people LI just made them print n play epic

[raven meteor]

Doesn't anti-air have a niche, not for blasting down planes but shooting at all the weird high cost monster and vehicle units that incidentally have flight

[desert jay]

Yeah anti-fly works for that

[jaunty dawn]

Mhm

Helverins vs battlesuits

Is funny

[wide veldt]

Yeah so

[jaunty dawn]

Wait

[wide veldt]

What’s the HH deal

[jaunty dawn]

Did helverins change

Mechanically HH is a continuation of the pre 8e ruleset

Is the main difference

And then in terms of content everyone is playing from a smaller pool of deeper armies

Or like, about as deep as the big factions in 40k but still

[desert jay]

The armies available are basically marines, knights, auxilla, mechanicum, and custodes, and everyone but custodes is also available in chaos flavor

[jaunty dawn]

Instead of custodes you can play demons

[desert jay]

Oh is demons playable? Neat, I never see buzz about those

[jaunty dawn]

Demons are kinda weird though

[rocky shale]

There are some wierd minor factions

[jaunty dawn]

You can also play cult/militia

Which is basically imperial guard

[rocky shale]

It's a very vibes heavy game from what I gather

Like focused on making your dudes do your dudes stuff

[jaunty dawn]

But yeah it has blast templates and armour facings and lower is better ap

[desert jay]

Has very good Your Dudes support yeah

[wide veldt]

Fuuuuck

That’s rad but I like xenos LMAO

I might actually like HH cause that’s all shit I think rocks

[desert jay]

"That’s rad but I like xenos LMAO" is so common an opinion when people hear about HH stuff

[vital barn]

HH3e is something of an evolution on the 7e format at this point

very much its own thing

[jaunty dawn]

In 20 years theyll have xenos maybe

And mk 7 marInes

[vital barn]

definitely has the best implementation of the "reaction on enemy turn currency" thing most GW games have now

I would steal some deployment and scoring stuff from 10e, though

strangely jank

[rocky shale]

I feel like there's too many HH fans that would shit a brick over xenos for them to do it

[jaunty dawn]

Apparently the missions suck ueah

[desert jay]

I do think War of the Beast has juice as an expansion thing if they ever run out of Heresy-appropriate marine stuff to add

[jaunty dawn]

I think theres room for a more classic take on eldar and orks though maybe it would be too much range sharing for modern gw

It would pretty much just be eldar and orks though

[raven meteor]

Sisters didn't exist back then so not for me either 😔

[jaunty dawn]

Gw like “hey we massively gutted the Other sisters, does that work for you?”

[vital barn]

Orks are easy enough, those were very common then as well

I don't think anyone would mind that

you can kind of simulate most of the 40k armies with Militia, albeit with rather less signature style

GSC units are literally all WYSIWIG in militia armies

as are Guard

[wide veldt]

I started looking at the HH stuff on Waha and it scared me

[jaunty dawn]

Waha is the previous edition

Unless thats changed in the last month or so

[wide veldt]

3e

[vital barn]

still 2e as far as I can tell

[wide veldt]

Oh

[vital barn]

Newrecruit has a decent 3e implementation

[jaunty dawn]

Militia provenances are quite good for customisation you can do a lot of stuff

[wide veldt]

No yeah I’m dumb

It’s 2

Yknow since I’m using TTS now

I can actually build an army around a storm lord

For IG

And not have to worry about… yknow

Buying

It

[raven meteor]

I don't like the sisters of silence and it is unfortunately for just one reason
I think their helmets look really bad, especially when 9/10 of them only wear the face plate and let their Bald Ass Head + Topknot shine for all to see

[jaunty dawn]

Theyre quite specific yeah

[raven meteor]

Like
Sister,
What IS that

[jaunty dawn]

Sister eww

Nah I kinda like it personally but yeah

[wide veldt]

So the fucked up and evil thing is that I like it

[jaunty dawn]

And theres zero room for variety cause god forbid they get more than one kit

[wide veldt]

Guys when are we getting chaos custodes

:p

They guard

Uhh

Uhhhhh

The… evil… emperor

[jaunty dawn]

Fabius Bile would say the newmen are that

Perturabo would say the obliterators are that

Lorgar would say possessed are that

[sour sequoia]

The thing horus heresy has going for eldar is that quite literally none of 40k eldar should exist in 30k yet besides harlequins and Eldrad

[jaunty dawn]

Like the characters? Yeah

Similar to Old World in a way

Except not where elves are concerned aiui but still

[sour sequoia]

You could make an entire new range and it’d fucking rip BUT its also going to cause half the playerbase of heresy to suffer an immediate brain aneurysm

[jaunty dawn]

I think the idea would be that its moving the game system beyond being confined to the horus heresy timeframe

[wide veldt]

I have another question

About yet another game

Is New Old World good?

[jaunty dawn]

Presumably into scouring but great crusade is an option

[sour sequoia]

This is the game for rivet counters to get mad at people for deviating from this one book’s depiction of an armourial and then get salty nobody gives a fuck about Sergeant Dipshitticus Of The [Insert Legion Here]

[floral herald]

It’s ok

[rocky shale]

Pre fall eldar would be sick but if we got those before exodites I would die

[wide veldt]

Tbh I have warmed to AoS some

[jaunty dawn]

Aiui its decent enough at being warhammer fantasy battles the problem is thats a not very functional gme

[floral herald]

I think rules wise AoS is better unless you reeallly like rank n flank or Cathay

[wide veldt]

Oh?

[atomic apex]

it still surprises me that Exodites have apparently never had rules?

[wide veldt]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

With like coherent unit balance or anything

[wide veldt]

They’ve always been lore baby

[floral herald]

Never ever yeah

[sour sequoia]

I mean the core premise of exodites is “opted out of the setting’s endless suffering”

“Waiter waiter write a five book series and game tie-in about the ones who walked away from omelas”

[jaunty dawn]

The main issue with playing old world for rank n flank is if you try you just get murdered by pegasus knights or gun balloons or etc

[raven meteor]

W-w-w-w-wait
Is
Is
Is the fall of the eldar and birth of Slaanesh more recent than like
The horus heresy

[rocky shale]

All my local old world players are guys who are still so mad about AoS

[jaunty dawn]

Nah

[wide veldt]

Okay to be fair they rode away from Omelas

On

FUCKING

DINOSAURS

[sour sequoia]

I have great news about dinosaurs in wargames

[jaunty dawn]

Cause the storm is like

[sour sequoia]

AoS and Conquest both have em

[wide veldt]

BUT I WANT THE DINOSAUR TO BEAT UP FABIUS BILE

[vital barn]

early craftworlders or exodites in HH would kind of rock honestly

[jaunty dawn]

The whole background to humanities timeline

[rocky shale]

Unfortunately I need a bright lance on my dinosaur

[floral herald]

I think your average hive worlder would just be like “wait there’s just one suffering kid?” “And they’re not even dead just like sad in a room?” “For all this?”

[vital barn]

and I'm not just saying this because it would make the marines sad to have to tailor against more than MEQ profiles + AT guns

[floral herald]

“What’s the catch?”

[pastel rampart]

The Fall happens and that's what causes the warp storms around Terra to dissipate, causing the Great Crusade to begin (and then the Heresy).

So it's a span of...maybe a hundred, two hundred years from The Fall to the GC.

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah that

[rocky shale]

Oh I had the order slightly off

[raven meteor]

That's fucking insane 😭
I assumed the fall and all that happened in the year like -5000 or something

[pastel rampart]

Emps had been anticipating it for a long time and was prepped to launch shit asap.

[floral herald]

I think it was a bit over 1000 years between the fall and the GC

M29 vs M31

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Timeline M30 to M31 actually.

So yeah probably 1k years, give or take.

[broken dew]

that's quite close

man the Eldar fell hard huh

[wide veldt]

I want eldar genestealers

Steal the genes of the eldar

[broken dew]

rocket speed s traight downwards

[wide veldt]

I don’t need a table I just

Wanna see em

[pastel rampart]

GC was relatively short tho, 798.M30 — 005.M31.

[jaunty dawn]

The fall was most eldar just getting gone

[broken dew]

true

[raven meteor]

elite focused tyrannid army......
Cursed (positive)

[broken dew]

they did mostly just get obliterated

[pastel rampart]

Eldar were in no shape to do much to the Imperium during the GC or Heresy, they mostly just hid and licked their wounds. Eldrad being an exception.

[broken dew]

Eldrad is simply better

[mental birch]

18 victrix lost 18 eounfd tho

[jaunty dawn]

He kinda biffed it

[pastel rampart]

Dark Eldar weren't even much of a thing yet either.

[wide veldt]

Great Crusade is the temp establishing the modern imperium right

Before getting pushed down the stairs

[broken dew]

idk what percentage of the eldar race got eaten but it was a significant majority of majorities so it makes sense they didn't really have the ability to do anything while the great crusade was happening

[wide veldt]

Emp even

[floral herald]

Basically yeah

The modern imperium is probably bigger but also patchier

[jaunty dawn]

Great crusade is all like i love sowing woohoo sowing is the best

[wide veldt]

I think I’ve seen the figure of about 60% got instant slaneeshed

Don’t quote me on that cause that’s very second hand but

[raven meteor]

I do find it funny that he went like
'I've received a prophetic vision of this betrayal! I better go tell it to the first subordinate of the guy getting betrayed I find, and then fuck off'

[broken dew]

regardless most of them got eaten immediately and a big hole got exploded into realspace

[jaunty dawn]

And then the horus heresy is them going reaping fuck no i hate reaping

[broken dew]

i think if more than half of your entire species get ate in an instant along with all of your gods you're probably gonna be reeling for a bit

[jaunty dawn]

Dark mech voice they should call it the martian heresy

Wait they probably wouldnt call it a heresy in the first place

[broken dew]

the Fabricator General at the time went "wouldn't it be funny"

[jaunty dawn]

I was there, on the day that horus heresy said this is the horus heresy

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ullanor_Crusade Orks were nothin' to fuck with during the GC either.

[broken dew]

yeah

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

Want some classic horror orks

[broken dew]

there is a reason that The War of the Beast returned back to Ullanor

that's like their ancestral homestead

[jaunty dawn]

At some point they decided that armageddon is ullanor right

No one talks about armageddon anymore

[broken dew]

that's war of the beast

at the end ||they teleported Ullanor away and pretended it got sent into a sun||

[floral herald]

This was part of why it was such a rush iirc

Fears the orks would just #orksweep the galaxy

[charred bridge]

Why did the emperor call his son Horus Heresy if he can see the future is he stupid?

[broken dew]

||this was the Mechanicum who did that, they were supposed to delete the planet but they thought it was a massive waste so they teleported the whole thing out of there and fudged the records so it was called Armageddon||

which is also why Orks want to go to Armageddon

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ullanor_Prime Yes.

[jaunty dawn]

So grand strategy coded

Apparently cadia has ornithopters

Had. Had ornithopters

[broken dew]

me when planet shaped rubble

[desert jay]

Does New Cadia have ornithopters?

[jaunty dawn]

Honestly Creed’s tactical genius is a lot less impressive when you realise he only ever fought on cadia I think???

[broken dew]

idk his tactical genius allowing him to hide titans behind lampposts is pretty impressive

[jaunty dawn]

Like oh how unexpected. A baneblade on planet baneblade

[desert jay]

Armageddon had a crusade book in 2025

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah but cadia probably just had titan shaped lampposts

No one talks about crusade books anymore

[desert jay]

Late reply was because I had to go and check to make sure I wasn't imagining it

[jaunty dawn]

No I was vaguely aware that was the case yeah

[broken dew]

Creed giving outflank to anything sure was a thing

[jaunty dawn]

He infiltrates unexpected units behind enemy lines, the lines which were by definition recently friendly lines

He just covers them with a little dirt

[wide veldt]

I want…. Kitty army

Can u tell my brain is degrading

[raven meteor]

Paint Warp Talons pink 😌

[finite compass]

Lord Castellan Ursurkar E. Steiner

[broken dew]

hide a baneblade in a bush, they'll never see it c oming

[charred bridge]

Or, Bane blade isthe bush. Bane blade in a ghille suit, no one would expect the small building sized bush in a plant less hive city to start shooting

[desert jay]

Throw turf on it and disguise it as a small hill

[broken dew]

throw a tarp over a Warhound titan and pretend it's a particularly large hill or a very small mountain

[charred bridge]

Did that titan sized lamppost say it's charging it's weapons?

Lamptest: no

Ah ok good I was worried

[raven meteor]

Hrmgggg I'm still Confounded by my argent shroud list
I want shooty infantry and vahlgons but from there it's all a muddle

[thin ibex]

Hmm how do you mean?

[raven meteor]

I want to make an Argent Shroud themed list
Argent Shroud are all about being fast and shooty shock assault troops
Morvenn Vahl is a shoe in because she's an amazing unit AND from the order in question, so she's in with her obligate paragon escort
But from there, I want the main 'meat' of my army to be infantry because I find foot sisters really cool
The play there seems to be to take Retributors, but their low model count unnerves me

[thin ibex]

Nah, i think the play could easily be dominions

and then also regular sister squads are perfectly ok; retributors without a delivery mechanism are super fragile

you usually want to buy the retributor heavy teams a chance to fire using terrain or a tranport

[raven meteor]

Do you just want to pack 4 meltas on dominions or

[thin ibex]

you could, its a high potential threat, though you can only push one through with a miracle

flamers also quite useful

[thin ibex]

Which space marine chapter do yall think vibes best with an astraeus?

Iron hands is an easy go to being vehicle oriented

Ultramarines also, being the most accepting of this new tech

[floral herald]

Aurora Chapter?

Minotaurs are another plausible one since they found the STC

[past sphinx]

Iron Snakes

the Astraeus seems exactly what you would want for killing other space marine tanks so def minos

(genuinely what a fucking mess of a superheavy model)

it almost lacks any visual cohesion

[vital barn]

it is a bit ghastly, yeah

[past sphinx]

its like someone glued 4 different tanks together and said fuck it print the thing

[desert jay]

I also heard it's a bitch to assemble

[vital barn]

leaving this here for future use

even if it took me a bit to recognise Szarekh

[brittle salmon]

Grinning Mask

[vital barn]

he's even got the right expression

[thin ibex]

I figure if I do a space marine crusade at some point I'll bring a thunderhawk or an astraeus

[thin ibex]

But he made an astartes pickup truck

[quaint compass]

Actually, that is an ad-hoc explanation. A weakness in the visor's weld had the unintended flaw of peeling and bending when Sisters' tried to kiss through the helmet, eventually giving way after weeks of use.

This is true to this day

[charred bridge]

Look not even adamantine could stop the righteous passion of a SoB kissing another fervently faithful SoB, it is simply the will of the Emperor

[quaint compass]

His love for humanity is embodied in his most devout servants

It is the same root cause behind space marines sometimes forgoing a helmet

That's right

[charred bridge]

The faith is stored in the lips

[quaint compass]

Crunched until puglike

[charred bridge]

Why beak helm was designed, put too put distance between astartes lips and their brothers

[quaint compass]

The wear and tear of the Corvus eventually gave way to the Aquila simply through the nature of space marines

[paper bluff]

The kiss of war and the kiss of peace

[charred bridge]

It is the same kiss

[quaint compass]

We smooch for Mwahcragge

[charred bridge]

You know with Tzeench we could eventually get the pug equivalent of an astartes

[paper bluff]

Something i've wondered, do astartes always have the acid or do they have to activate it?

Like if a marine spits on the ground to insult, does it hiss?

[quaint compass]

It's just acid reflux

But explained by dogma

[paper bluff]

Basically the flesh change tbf

[quaint compass]

The amount of grease within their nutrient stock is absurd

The rubric of ahriman but it turns them into pugs

[charred bridge]

When do astartes ever really use the acid spit

[vital barn]

I'm pretty sure it's always on, there's mention of khorne dudes drooling and burning their own skin with the saliva

[quaint compass]

Rubric marines panting because they barely force enough air through their faces to fill one lung, much less all three

[vital barn]

although maybe that's just khornates

Talos Nightlords gets some use out of it

[floral herald]

It’s activated by some kind of mental command

It’s like a special gland or something

[charred bridge]

If youre gonna not wear a helmet then you just be using acid spit more often

[quaint compass]

Like eating a burgor

[floral herald]

Yeah I think they’re just messed up

[charred bridge]

Acid spit on someone's gun or chain weapon handle to ruin controls

[paper bluff]

"NO RUN! THE CHANGE IS TAKING ME! RUN BROTHERS"

horrible bone cracking and explosion then a slightly large pug walks out of the armor

[quaint compass]

The spug drives the armor but still requires orders like a rubric because he's a good boy

[past sphinx]

hmm

little bit of blue tak does the job eh james

[quaint compass]

"Hey, just look at the paintjob, man."

[past sphinx]

i too have completely forgotton something was bluetaked and to offical stuff with it

[paper bluff]

The chance you take when you paint sub assemblies

I've done that and tried to glue it in place And it just ends up messing up the paint some

[pastel rampart]

Current project. Beast Titan from Duncan Shadow.

https://dl2.myminifactory.com/object-assets/64d09d344f2524.89180299/images/untitled-8706.jpg It'll look like this once finished. Currently printing the rest of the upper torso.

And here it is next to the other big boy. Which I realized I hadn't gotten a good pic in better lighting.

[raven meteor]

😌

[pastel rampart]

I got a bunch of this guy's STLs and I may well just print'em all for a giants army.

[past sphinx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lpCW02kZXw

ive never seen such an elegant example of modeling in any way shape or form

condensing the entire high and low points of building literally any kit

[sour sequoia]

Beautiful

[past sphinx]

he is free!

thank fuck for old and crap super glue builds

[pine matrix]

It's a convertible!

[past sphinx]

i gotta think of something to replace the old frosted over clear plastic in the cockpit

this is some real ebay rescue shit here

[pale narwhal]

Clear plastic from blister packs or other containers

[past sphinx]

fucking genius

i have some grass tuffs in exactly the right kind of plastic sheet

[viral crest]

So, how do you as T'au deal with melee-heavy armies?

[stark cypress]

get some kroot

[mental birch]

1. Kroot
2. Pathfinders

their job is to stand in the way

[viral crest]

Oh Pathfinders are good at that?

[raven meteor]

Looking at the statblock-
They get a drone that subtracts 2 from any incoming charge roll
Failing a charge is Hideously Bad for melee units so I imagine the idea is that you body block with them
So they have to expose themselves more to even attempt a charge

[viral crest]

Ah yeah that makes sense

[paper bluff]

Don't play against custodes

[mental birch]

Yes but alsp inflitrate and scout is wild

[junior summit]

detachment dependent, but kroot/breachers and shooting them before they get to yoy

[sour sequoia]

Kroot Fucking Rampagers

Breachers

Fall back + shoot and/or ignore mods crisis suits. Fall back + shoot riptides.

The only mechs who can’t just leave are like, ghostkeel/stormsurge/broadsides

You deal with melee by playing to the melee phase yourself, no army can ignore any phase in 10th

A clever tank shock + moveblock can almost always remove or deter threats after your overwhelming shooting

[mental birch]

Riptide is funnier but

[thin ibex]

another useful tool i found for tau, which maybe isn't meta

but transports

are great at blocking melee movement avenues

and tanking through massed attacks

[thin ibex]

FYI ghostkeel can also, as an option anyway, it has fly and can take BSS to fallback and shoot if it wants, loses SMOKE though

[mental birch]

Oh no what a shame

Whever will i do

[mental birch]

I blank out after pile in and maybe wake up at consolidate

[sour sequoia]

isn't it already lone op and stealth anyways lmfao

[thin ibex]

yuuup

[wide veldt]

Alright

Try too

I’m gonna make a genestealer list of the church detachment

I wanna do nid soup but like

I feel like that’s best saved

[sour sequoia]

Xenocreed?

Hell yeah

[atomic apex]

Ran an all Destroyer list with Cursed Legion, for possible Crusade play later, mostly just curious how it'd do
Went somewhat better than I expected tbh

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1460524840212631635/image.png?ex=69673b41&is=6965e9c1&hm=3170438ec2b0496ee91fac0b6b98c46998a3f8440c9e7ac0f9085b6b81b9ccd9&

[charred bridge]

Tyranids definitely arent sharing their food

[junior robin]

finally, powerflail primaris lieutenant.

must be a new daemon engine, unless any of the chaos primarch got a tail? 🤔

[floral herald]

I’m gonna guess this is a flail head

With bony styling on the chain

[jaunty dawn]

Could be a bell

[still warren]

The little tube connected to the mace head screams 40/30k otherwise I would be guessing a new ossiarch bone guard model

[floral herald]

Same

[still warren]

Hmm actually might be chorfs wave 2

[pastel rampart]

Chorfs don't have much tubing.

[floral herald]

The power cable screams 40K to me

[pastel rampart]

It looks pretty chaos to me so I'm wildly guessing at Wordbearers on account of their love of maces.

[junior robin]

finally, Erebus

[pastel rampart]

Or Lorgar.

[past sphinx]

defiler flail

id bet

[vital barn]

new myrmidon rules for 30k

they are exactly the same as the old ones

the new 30k Skitarii look like generic objective holder chumps, they are fast, have 2W and volkites and can pick Line or Vanguard

for some incomprehensible reason the two skitarii units are their own army list rather than just part of Mechanicum

[jaunty dawn]

2w skitarii

[vital barn]

yeah they're big lads

[jaunty dawn]

I guess that makes sense theyre proto

Whatchacallits

[vital barn]

units of 16 too, which is just a lot of wounds in one place

[jaunty dawn]

Rustalkers and infiltrators

Are called

Ummm

I should really know this

[vital barn]

WS/BS 3 does mean that they'll struggle to do very much unless their guns are very good indeed, but we'll see what they've got going on

[jaunty dawn]

Sicarians

Oh wild

[cinder wraith]

starting a necromunda campaign finally

[jaunty dawn]

Good luck!

[cinder wraith]

the local scene was still and dead so im reviving it since the previous local players moved to the north

mfw 5 new players are interested

im so hyped

[past sphinx]

remember

knockback is funny

[cinder wraith]

the campaign is basically based off a previous GM / Arbitrators campaign where a hive city fell to chaos

and this campaign you are infiltrating to recapture it before imperial fists sends their forces to deal with it and kill helmawr

after this i take a break then run arthanian succession

[pastel rampart]

https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/bogwyrm-miniatures/bogwyrm-x-principenero-evil-dwarfs-in-28mm If anyone's looking for some metal chorfs

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/ign.com/post/3mccy4srhax2e

IGN (@ign.com)

Warhammer maker Games Workshop has banned the use of AI in its content production and its design process, insisting that none of its senior managers are currently excited about the technology. bit.ly/49xT9Xl

Likes

234

Bluesky · Jan 13, 2026, 4:31 PM

[floral herald]

I’m not shocked to hear it but I am excited by this news

[dense idol]

i must begrudgingly hand it to James

[junior summit]

beware silica animus etc

[charred bridge]

I am sort of shocked to see a company not have drank the Kool aid

At least a GW sized company

[raven meteor]

As I said on another server, GW has always seemed like a very boomer sort of game company
Their drama is classic 'don't ever do fanworks of our shit' and not this newfangled 'we are integrating the block chain into our model sales and every individual marine you buy is tied to an virutal NFT with a fluctuating price'

[junior summit]

GW also notably does all their mfg in the UK

its why all their shit is so expensive, it's not made in china

[tired cairn]

(well, most of it anyways. The books and some terrain is made in China aiui)

[junior summit]

all the minis

[tired cairn]

Yeah

[charred bridge]

Many of their decisions are questionable but making stuff locally, good for them

[pastel rampart]

Out of boredom I've been flipping through the WHFB 4th edition Battle Magic book and it has an...interesting way of keeping magic in check.

http://puu.sh/KGVHV/81a98d3df2.jpg

Spells are taken from decks of magic, of which there's multiple kinds to reflect schools. But these typically have 10 spells, and some as little as 4 (for chaos gods specifically), so games with a lot of wizards will inevitably run out of cards.

[jaunty dawn]

Mill but we share a deck

[pastel rampart]

These decks are shared between all players, so if there's say two Amber wizards they're sharing that deck.

Now, some wizards that's not too big an issue. Everyone's special boys the High Elves get access to all 8 colleges of magic, their own High Elf deck, and due to rules of distribution get to pull from the decks first before (almost) any other wizard. A chaos sorcerer can pull from a single colored deck, the Dark Magic deck, and must have at least 1 from their patron god deck.

But if you're just say, skaven? You got your deck and that's it buddy.

[paper bluff]

Calling demon primarch perty rn

[floral herald]

Yeah this is why I wasn’t surprised

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=264vSQ0kWpg

[wide veldt]

Gotta say

I want the beak helmets back

I love them

[charred bridge]

Sloped Helms so headshots just slide off

[tired cairn]

I really like the D:< face ones

[charred bridge]

Come on tanks figured this out in the world wars

What about angry and beak

Like some sort of upset avian

[wide veldt]

I like that the rest of the armor is legitimately sloped tho

I don’t really think it was intentionally designed in that manner

[tired cairn]

Hard to fit the anger vox grill in with the beak

[wide veldt]

But

[charred bridge]

For you

[tired cairn]

I do like the squinty eye in the video preview image though

[charred bridge]

This but vox grill

[floral herald]

Only 1 legion can pull off MK6 “Poggers” pattern armor

[charred bridge]

That reminds me of birdo

[pastel rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-pingu-noot-noot-moves-gif-7369179

[wide veldt]

Is it silly to say I actually think this kinda rocks

[floral herald]

No EC look good

[desert jay]

Yeah they've got 8 unique units (7 kits) and all of them bangers, it's just they're shafted when it comes to having heavies that every other chaos army has (Predator, Defiler, Forgefiend, Helbrute)

[pastel rampart]

I'm not sold on Tormentors, I think they look a bit stiff in their posing. The rest of them look good, though they need 100% more guitars-as-guns.

[wide veldt]

40k marinemodel needs better posing, spoon found in silverware drawer

[soft willow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h680stFg51Y

[wide veldt]

Is Biker Gang GSC viable?

[junior summit]

like all bikes or with bikes?

iirc the quads are quite good and form the striking power of a number of lists but you do want a lot of inf

[thin ibex]

i think motor gsc is viable

[rocky shale]

There's a detachment for it

[wide veldt]

Fair

However

There seems to be a lot of detachments for stuff that isn’t actually viable :p

[thin ibex]

gotta define viable, cause a lot of stuff is pretty viable in a normal state of play

[desert jay]

There's detachments for a lot of things, but IIRC the GSC biker detachment is pretty good

Yeah

[wide veldt]

Yeah that’s fair

I’m not usually gonna preface it but like

I never mean like tournament play

I mean like “am I going to be able to have a chance in a casual game”

For example of something that fails: GSC brood brothers lol

I went back and looked at the math for them and

Yeah

That’s not good

[thin ibex]

eh, theres a lot of room for skill expression, especially with unknown opponent skill levels

There are certainly better and worse detachments, dont get me wrong

but im of the opinion that barring understanding a specific local meta that you're playing in, pretty much everything is viable

[junior summit]

except agents /j

[thin ibex]

lol

you can actually win with agents, you just dont win deathmatches

its kind of classic horde play for the most part

[wide veldt]

The only competitive tabletop game I’ve played much of is MTG commander and the floor of viability in that, that I’m used to, is that even ostensibly supported deck ideas can be like

Pure suffering to run

Unless ur friends just humor you lmao

And I am not good at picking out trap options

At least that was my experience

[floral herald]

As in the detachment or the squad?

[wide veldt]

Detachment

[floral herald]

Oh yeah they need pretty careful building to work

[wide veldt]

And for very little benefit imo

From just bringing a full army of GSC with a normal detachment

[floral herald]

A lot of the soup detachments are either insanely good or fall flat yeah

I think in general soup is good

But a few of them aren’t

[thin ibex]

i know there are folk that disagree with me in general, but Im in the camp of folk who think that many detachments, speaking broadly, are far more viable casually. The only time where the conversation goes into actual viability imo is competetive play, and thats when you have any real need to understand a macro meta and not a local play meta

[floral herald]

Yeah in general friendlies do not matter very much

Just choosing a sort of cohesive set of units with a game plan works

Unless you have a sweaty local meta

[vital barn]

Soup detachments often have the big glaring flaw that the guys you soup don't get army rule, which isn't such a problem with, say, Nids but absolutely fucks up Guard in GSC or Skitarii in Knights

Final Day also provides your new bug allies with a nice pile of synergy that makes up for the loss, whereas Questor Forgepact really doesn't

[wide veldt]

I am tempted to build with the perfect ambush detachment specifically because like

All the others are very focused on specific parts of the army

But this is just generically good

And it fucks with the ambush mechanic which I love

[sour sequoia]

Outlander Claw is incredible

And Host of Ascension is a flex detach in appearance only

It wants 3+ giant bricks of neophytes dropping out of deepstrike to volume check people

The secret of GSC is your range is super tight you run a huge part of your roster in any given list but the detach focuses your strategy and what your hammers or key pieces are

[wide veldt]

I seee

Interesting

[sour sequoia]

Host is a lot weaker than it used to be but its still perfectly good and all the usual suspects are coldcocking tournaments

[wide veldt]

Okay so question

For biosanctic

When it says that aberrants get to add +1 to charge

Do they lose that buff if I embed an abominant

[sour sequoia]

Nope, the unit will have the Aberrant keyword from the aberrants themselves

[wide veldt]

Okay awesome, that being how that works makes me way less annoyed at how specific the detatchments are

[sour sequoia]

The tricky biosanctic bit is characters wont respawn so like biophagus + 10 metamorphs are insane in biosanctic and then lost a lot on the second go around

[thin ibex]

seems like a niche case to have precision to try and poke him out

since abbies are tough as heck

[sour sequoia]

Without unit-wide precision its a super duper losing bet and then you get the abominant fight on death, death grenades strat, then 2+ resurrect at full health

[viral crest]

Hmm maybe I should play the Mechanicus Knights...

[sour sequoia]

You have to just bombard the shit out of abbies anything in melee is a losing game

[thin ibex]

id encourage you to, if you have tts, to give it a go

i wouldnt invest a lot of money into it

[viral crest]

Oh gosh no yeah we're playing TTS

[thin ibex]

but if you have a gameplan and a strategy, even the mechicus knight soup detach can win games

[viral crest]

I also need to try Aeldari and 1ksons out to see who I want to bring into the Crusade...

[sour sequoia]

I would go further and say 90% of detachments are competitively viable but its a question of investment and experimentation

[thin ibex]

nice part about trying weird or generally weaker detachments is like, pretty much no consequence except time

in tts

like go ham, try them out

lose some games

[sour sequoia]

The precious few unviable ones are like, Rad Zone, Brood Brothers, Annihilation Legion, Explorator Maniple

[thin ibex]

no need to have picked the best one right out the gate

man i really like radzone too

I did win a fair few casual games with it; i mainly used... rust stalkers? to table stuff so that they had to keep taking the tests

but yeah its a weak detach rule

[wide veldt]

Tbh my gameplan that I want to do with genestealers

[sour sequoia]

And I cant even say this shit about Brood Brothers cuz a 17 year old from Tampa placed 25th at Worlds.

God damn you Tucker Rickey

[thin ibex]

lol

thats also a big thing

[wide veldt]

I want to load up the Goliath

With something really fucked up and evil

And just

Drive it up to the enemy

[thin ibex]

a lot of casual conversation around meta speaks like its set in stone, and then pretty regularly, some guy goes "yeah i won with the worst units" and upends it

[wide veldt]

And dump it in their mouth

[sour sequoia]

Biophagus + 10 metamorphs

[wide veldt]

And then have the rest of my army hit and running and harassing them

[floral herald]

I thought the CSM cultist detachment was booty but people keep making it work

[sour sequoia]

You want biophagus + 10 metamorphs

[floral herald]

Yeah, surprise winners are just not that rare

[thin ibex]

its good because at the end of the day its a frack ton of wounds to have to chew through

[floral herald]

Or random well played meat and potatoes lists

[thin ibex]

its like khp or green tide

[wide veldt]

Tbh I think you could make Brood Brothers work by taking like

[thin ibex]

though green tide doesnt do great anymore

[wide veldt]

Disgustingly cheap and awful guard units

And using them like spotters

For tau

[sour sequoia]

Remember when one guy gaslit us all into believing Veterans of the Long War was new meta

Or Recon Element for this year’s edition

[wide veldt]

Because if they shoot a unit
Then actually GSC units get +1 to hit that same guy

[jaunty dawn]

Everyone is always hating on questor forgepact

[thin ibex]

I do think that theres a lot to be said about meat and potatoes lists just generally being solid contenders at pretty much all levels of play

[vital barn]

Someday I will have a reason to take the cult mech detachment

[jaunty dawn]

Theyre like boooo questor forgepact

[thin ibex]

i kinda want to in crusade

play the mechanicus soup knights

i love the narrative vibes

[jaunty dawn]

I think its fine its just not a soup detachment where the soup units do anything

[vital barn]

Even if it's just because I've kitbashed 60 electropriests and want to meme with them

[jaunty dawn]

And also its mechanic is win more that only does anything if your opponent has already failed

[vital barn]

right now I only have 20

[jaunty dawn]

And the other detachments are just way better

But apart from.that

It has knight overwatch

And free (you paid for them quite dearly actually) rerolls on your knights

[thin ibex]

big electro priest wall feels like itd be a fun skew list to run a few times

[floral herald]

Votlw isn’t even bad it’s just mid haha, that was so silly

[vital barn]

Electropriests feel like they all want duneriders

They are exceptionally paper

[rocky shale]

Knights are insane in crusade so you can take the detatchment to nerf yourself

[jaunty dawn]

Oh no wait I misremembered the knight rerolls are an enhancement rip

[sour sequoia]

Idk that they’re even Insane but they’re just kinda boring as shit and it then forces everybody else in the crusade to react to Knights Existing

[rocky shale]

They get a lot of value from upgrades

[vital barn]

6 dragoons, got it

[rocky shale]

So it's slightly crusade dependent but my CK were kinda crazy with how easy they were to rank up

[sour sequoia]

“Oh boy I can’t wait to take fun fluffy stuff”

“Guess its 12 lascannons again or none of us get to enjoy this”