It’s also boring and a little centralizing
#Warhammer and Such
raven meteor
It’s also boring and a little centralizing
Much like normal space marines,
quaint compass
WEZ GOT DA DAKKA BACK, BOYZ!
wide veldt
To be so fair
vital barn
choosing between lethals and sustained is also very easy so it's basically "press button for minimum 20% damage boost"
wide veldt
The base army rule for CSM should absolutely be generic
floral herald
choosing between lethals and sustained is also very easy so it's basically "pres...
Yeah it’s rare where it’s agonizing
You kinda just know which you want
wide veldt
Because you don’t want to like…. Impose on the chapters it covers
raven meteor
Anyhow I just love Thrill Seekers a lot and think it's way more exciting than dark pacts
And the idea of trying to play it is making me want to try Emperor's Children
wide veldt
EC is the noise marines right
quaint compass
ya
raven meteor
Yeah! Though the faction as a whole is more melee
The Noise Marines are their Primary Gun Shooters
wide veldt
Yeah poorhammer called them the Gladiator Faction
vital barn
You kinda just know which you want
well, it's "if you wound on 3+ or better pick sustained, if you wound on 5+ or worse pick lethals, if you wound on 4+ pick your poison"
raven meteor
They get to be agile as fuck but only as long as they're showing off and having ADHD
vital barn
so there is a correct decision
raven meteor
They are flitting around and not working together, each trying to be the flashiest coolguy
reef pagoda
do people play marine soup for CSM with noise/rubric/plague marines, sounds fun
floral herald
The Noise Marines are their Primary Gun Shooters
Tormentors are pretty shooty but Noise Marines are kinda the closest you get to heavy weapons
floral herald
do people play marine soup for CSM with noise/rubric/plague marines, sounds fun
You can but because of key wording weirdness it’s kind of limited
floral herald
Yeah
wide veldt
Okay cool
I was so ready to be disappointed
Unrelated, Im kinda glad I’m not really in a position to play physically because the idea of painting minis fucking terrifies me
raven meteor
Yeahhhhhh
I
The physical hobby seems like a lot
There is SOME sadness to doing it online
I can't find Argent Shroud models for TTS 😔
wide veldt
Oh the tau pulse onslaught stratagem seems p good
rocky shale
Unrelated, Im kinda glad I’m not really in a position to play physically because...
It's not so bad
You practice quick
wide veldt
Okay Retaliation Cadre is for people who are Extremely Horny for Battlesuits
Okay this is funny as fuck tho
atomic apex
Okay Retaliation Cadre is for people who are Extremely Horny for Battlesuits
I would feel that should be most Tau players
wide veldt
Ah I see you’ve never felt the tender allure of Kroot
bright dove
Well, when I felt the allure of Kroot, I looked at my Khorne Berzerkers.
atomic apex
Ah I see you’ve never felt the tender allure of Kroot
I like the Kroot, but if I play Tau it's because I wanna use Battlesuits and big guns
raven meteor
There are multiple! :3
Sisters have one too
wide veldt
Oh even better you can give ANY battlesuit DD
So is feel no pain just like
Armor Save The Sequel
raven meteor
Armor Save The Sequel
The key difference is that it's per point of damage not per attack
wide veldt
Ohhhhhh
raven meteor
If a heavy bolter shoots you 1 time for 2 damage, you save 1 time and feel no pain 2 times
wide veldt
And AP doesn’t apply to it I imagine
raven meteor
Yes, it's just a fixed value lie invuln saves
wide veldt
Oh that’s a prick stratagem
junior summit
finished Brutal Kunnin and man
for an ork book it has a remarkably low quantity of orks in it but also it's just really good
and the admech are fun and don't get completely worfed even if the protag ork completely dumpsters a titan
wide veldt
I wanna make a model where it’s a battlesuit with the helmet taken off and it’s a Kroot wearing it
desert jay
LMAO
Battlesuit pilot: "There's a guy in my head who calls me studmuffin"
Kroot: "Please leave me alone"
wide veldt
LMAO
Kroot in a battlesuit: I DONT KNOW YOU
LEAVE ME ALONE
Man I’m so fucking excited for dark heresy Kroot guy
Or girl
Kroot girl would be awesome
raven meteor
Girl I think!
But yeah, I'm excited too
vital barn
and the admech are fun and don't get completely worfed even if the protag ork co...
ruststalkers continue to be best boys
wide veldt
GOD DAMN
vital barn
or girls, typically impossible to tell
raven meteor
Yesssss
Neither is particularly likely to trigger but 5+ will save your units a fair chunk of the time
Especially if they're trying to take you out with rapid fire guardsmen guns or the like
wide veldt
Especially if ur running a mostly Kroot army which
It’s the Kroot detachment
Why the fuck wouldn’t you be
raven meteor
Yeahhh
Ive heard good things about oops all kroot
raven meteor
lmaooo
-3% chance but I respect it
wide veldt
I wanna fuck that bird, Nam
raven meteor
I understand!
viral crest
A snake has made a Grey Knights list
atomic apex
6+ Invuln is very funny to me
even though I know it's probably still useful for things
junior summit
ruststalkers continue to be best boys
yeah the ruststalkers get good licks in
raven meteor
Man I'm excited to play more 40k
Now that we've finally wrapped up that gsc game I've got two more matches against pals in the works
One is doing night lords and one is doing guard
raven meteor
even though I know it's probably still useful for things
It DOES help if like
A power sword melee unit rolls up with the AP -2
Carnivores have save 6 so any AP makes saving impossible iirc
wide veldt
Also like
I’ll take…. What is it like,
15% chance of being fine
On every single unit
raven meteor
Yeah! Especially since kroot, iirc, like universally have Stealth
So they get weird defences besides
vital barn
it's not going to make you not die against serious firepower but it's always nice to reduce the number of guys you lose to completely incidental fire
like random vehicle stubbers or whatever
wide veldt
Also it has the potential to clutch
Also I love how fucking stupid the Kroot are
Every bit of their flavor text is just
Yeah the Kroot use Kroothawks to flush out Krootlizards to feed to their Kroothorses
raven meteor
Stealth being just -1 to hit and not in any way trying to replicate stealth is so funny but also frankly appreciated
raven meteor
Yeah the Kroot use Kroothawks to flush out Krootlizards to feed to their Krootho...
To be fair, that's because kroothawks and krootlizards and kroothorses ARE all kroot
vital barn
in other editions stealth is a cover save, which is a different save you can take instead of armour or invuln
which a) rewarded actually being stealthy because a stealth unit in actual cover got a better save than either of the two independently and b) produced the incredibly funny spectacle of flak armour or an iron halo becoming totally useless to anyone standing in a ruin because you can't take multiple saves
so you know, makes about as much sense
wide veldt
To be fair, that's because kroothawks and krootlizards and kroothorses ARE all k...
Excuse me
Are they Kroot that are too many animal
vital barn
pretty much, yeah
wide veldt
Fucking insane
vital barn
the entire kroot homeworld ecosystem is made up of variants of kroot
wide veldt
That’s gotta be kinda existentially horrible right
raven meteor
Excuse me
Yeah uh
Kroot inherit the genetic traits of stuff they eat
Krootoxes, kroothounds, and kroothawks are kroot genetic lineages that have gone back out of sapience as a result of their genetic meandering
(Kroothawks might be the original Kroots, though)
wide veldt
Oh
The Kroot lady is getting a figurine
An honor only shared by Cassia and Arue
She… might actually be a romance
soft willow
Heresy.
soft willow
No, it's still heresy, it's just sactioned heresy.
raven meteor
We're iconoclast gamers around here*
*when that is presented as an option
wide veldt
I would be very surprised if it wasn’t an option again
I know the beta for dark heresy is out
raven meteor
Oh yeah I more meant like
Space Marine and Darktide
I strongly suspect the moral axis in this one will be Puritan or Radical but I doubt they'd say 'yeah you can't break the law (be nice) anymore'
soft willow
There will be a more conventional "heroic" option.
wide veldt
I strongly suspect the moral axis in this one will be Puritan or Radical but I d...
that’s technically the RT axis as well
Icon and heresy are both Radical and dogma is puritan
raven meteor
True enough but Radical in the context of inquisitors is really more Dickish Iconoclassy
If you aren't a dick you aren't doing your job right and if you aren't serving the emperor you aren't doing your job right
But I get you
wide veldt
Also I think an actual tau companion for one of these games would be very funny
stark cypress
Tau Companion
wide veldt
Just a companion constantly being like “hey man could you be normal”
stark cypress
Now with extra Battlesuit grip!
raven meteor
Just a companion constantly being like “hey man could you be normal”
Until the narrative compels them to do something unhinged to go 'see guys we promise they're not the protagonists'
wide veldt
Growling and snapping forever at the stupid fucking ethereal mind control shit
stark cypress
Everything needs to be grimdark
stark cypress
Everything needs to be grimdark
but eventually that just turns everybody off
wide veldt
It’s still like
10 billion times better than the imperium
So it serves no real narrative purpose
raven meteor
Growling and snapping forever at the stupid fucking ethereal mind control shit
Meanwhile I'm forever growling and snapping about the writer who once had a bunch of tau scientists infect their own planet with genestealer DNA more or less to see what would happen
wide veldt
That’s fucking insane
raven meteor
vital barn
I kind of like that every Earth Caste in every book is fiending to do some wild shit the moment they let them off the leash
wide veldt
I want models for tau genestealers now tho
vital barn
there's also that guy in the Eight who was like "yeah I made doom nanobot grey goo, sure is great we had that ready for this hive fleet"
also known for cloning a guy 5000 times, building a Tau battlesuit dreadnought for another guy and dissecting puretide to shove him in the Silverhand chip
the Tau'va's least hinged riptide pilot
wide veldt
Okay I feel like that last one at least isn’t stupid
raven meteor
'The Tau infect themselves with Genestealers Because They're Woke, you see'
'Theyre not racist enough to understand the danger of shooting themselves up with monster slime'
wide veldt
Because of woke
vital barn
there are reasonable justifications for all of them but because the guy who writes that series uses that earth caste guy as his one stop shop for all plot developments he's revealed to have installed a Kill Planet Button on basically every world they visit, which collectively makes him look insane
between the volcano erupt button on the geothermal plant that somehow kills millions of skitarii and zero tau and the grey goo nanobots that perfectly wipe a hive fleet, both after a Dramatic Battlesuit Holdout from the half dozen protags
what I'm saying here is that Phil Kelly has one plot and refuses to stop writing it over and over
stark cypress
No wonder Adeptus ridiculous grumbled about Phil Kelly.
vital barn
he fucking loves a last stand against overwhelming numbers, like every BL author
and he cannot be bothered to set one up properly
so in every book Farsight starts out by willingly swandiving into 400 times his numbers with six guys and a rock and then mcguffins his way out of it with something he finds lying around
which is in character for Farsight, admittedly
but does feel like a bit of an ass-pull the fourth time in a row
stark cypress
You see that works for Cain
atomic apex
Until the narrative compels them to do something unhinged to go 'see guys we pro...
Tau should be the protagonists though
they are the new rising empire, horrified at all the awful shit all these other older fallen empires get up to
stark cypress
You see that works for Cain
because it's implied the Emperor is just fucking with him.
(And also occasionally his wife whenever she's reading his private journals)
atomic apex
Tau _should_ be the protagonists though
they are the new rising empire, horrifie...
the Tau are to the Imperium what the Imperium is to the Eldar
vital barn
(six guys and a rock do admittedly have seven battlesuits between them)
I like that the Tau are occasionally revealed to have done a whoopsie because I firmly believe that nobody in this universe should be above embarassing codex entries
stark cypress
the Tau are to the Imperium what the Imperium is to the Eldar
Yes but the Imperium has one thing the Tau don't.
vital barn
also they have what, a few hundred planets now?
past sphinx
covering everything in skulls doesnt count as presentation
vital barn
they can lose a couple without it being Crushing Tau Defeats
past sphinx
it counts as clutter
vital barn
it's an S-curve
after a while it becomes impressive on volume alone
thus speaks Khorne
it's also funny to me that the Tau are adjacent to the most sane bit of the Imperium
they're a few planets over from Ultramar
somewhere down there is the Sensibleness Beacon that teaches you how logistics work
mental birch
Okay Retaliation Cadre is for people who are Extremely Horny for Battlesuits
Lol I'm telling on myself
mental birch
OKAY KROOT HUNTING PARTY
90% of good kroot hunting party games
congragulations you have finally
wiped out my army scoring 30 to my 100
raven meteor
Tau _should_ be the protagonists though
they are the new rising empire, horrifie...
Yeah but they aren't the humans in the setting so they aren't allowed to be!
Hence the occasional bone headedness
I do wonder if the heavy presence of kroot in Dark Heresy means that Tau proper will show
Or if they'll just be vibing on their lonesome
raven meteor
Space Marine 2 had a mention of a 'tau ambush' and 'eldar attacks' and shit in the hub area's chatter and every time I was like
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Give Me
mental birch
Also i might be free tonight/morning for crisis suit freak
wide veldt
For what
mental birch
oh
was memeing for
TTS warhammer
but against my meme crisis list
I run 18 and that's low
wide veldt
Is TTS still worth watching if I only ever caught a little of it
sweet solar
i think she meant tabletop simulator not text to speech
sweet solar
No, it's still heresy, it's just sactioned heresy.
its only heresy if its doctrine inconsistent with central dogma
not just racism
sour sequoia
“Bro its the nightbringer whats a 140pt unit gonna do”
We are not yet to the sergeant or the character this is just attack count for the sweeps
viral crest
Carnivores have save 6 so any AP makes saving impossible iirc
I thought 6s were always a success, no matter what?
Or is that just an AoS thing
raven meteor
Or is that just an AoS thing
I believe AP can push your Save characteristic to be 7+ or somesuch and therefore impossible
The existence of 6+ invuln saves seems to corroborate this
Only so much that flak jacket can do against a baneblade cannon home slice
raven meteor
Excited to play more games soon 😌
Just sitting at my desk giddy thinking about it
Two more matches with my pals are coming up
One's doing Night Lord CSMs and the other's doing Guardsmen
Sacresants seem like they'll eat marines for breakfast with those 2 damage 4 str AP-1 maces, especially if I bust out To The Heart Of Heresy
The rest of the army though,
mild glen
An unmodified 1 always fails, but no mention of unmodified 6s
AP and Rend can both make a save impossible
viral crest
Mhm
Is there any rule for gaining an advantage if you have under the maximum points limit in 40k?
raven meteor
I think rounding off point totals is generally just the domain of enhancements and the like
viral crest
Cause in AoS you get extra Command Points if you have 50 under the total
But I don't know if there's anything in 40k and I don't know if that's because it's not there or I'm just not seeing it because I'm a bit
out of focus rn
raven meteor
I have not seen anything of the sort as of yet?
soft willow
There is no advantage in 40k for being under the points limit.
There are abilities called Enhancements that cost points that sometimes you'll want to build into your list, or sometimes you'll use to fill in when you have hanging points.
vital barn
10e lists are generally harder to round off than lists in other GW games, because you don't have small stuff to buy other than those four enhancements so you can't just throw on an extra plasma pistol or what have you
as I understand it being within, say, 20 points of limit is about fine
wide veldt
I still think making the wargear completely costless was a really weird decision
raven meteor
I am fine with all the like 'you can swap (assault rifle) for (pistol and sword)' but the many 'you can swap (pistol) for (better pistol)' or 'you can optionally take this thing with all upsides and no downsides' is bizarre
rocky shale
That they are taking harlequins behind the shed
They just got a new detachment and it's good
wide veldt
Oh really?
rocky shale
Serpents Brood is good
It's mechanized clowns
Buffs for vehicles, mounted, and clowns coming out of transports
desert jay
I still think making the wargear completely costless was a really weird decision
IMO it's a good decision, but too many of the wargear options are statted as downgrades
But the thing is, the second half of that isn't new
soft willow
It also is intended to let you play whatever you can build out of the box.
desert jay
There were just as many things in 8e/9e where you wouldn't ever take them except for flavor b/c they weren't worth the points
wide veldt
It is kinda ultra lazy I gotta say
As game design
To have a bunch of options that just straight up have no niche
soft willow
The niche for those options is they were what someone built three editions ago and their models can still be WYSIWYG.
desert jay
In previous editions there were units that had 1 or 2 builds with distinct niches despite a dozen options with different point costs
raven meteor
Just give the standard 'officer's bolt pistol that is objectively worse than their plasma pistol option' rapid fire :3
desert jay
The "it's not worth buying any upgrades, never buy upgrades unless you have 5-10 pts at the end of listbuilding" guys and the "you get this unit for X gun or Y gun, never get this unit without those gear upgrades" guys
That covers like 90% of competitive 9e units
wide veldt
Just give the standard 'officer's bolt pistol that is objectively worse than the...
No for real tho
Idk
Maybe I’m just being salty lol
Expecting too much of the biggest tabletop company of all time I guess
soft willow
Biggest doesn't mean best rules.
raven meteor
I do think All That being done purely for the sake of 'someone might have physical models of a commissar with a bolt pistol' is a little silly but also I guess I'm not the model guy who lovingly spent 40 man hours assembling and painting all his dudes five years ago or something
wide veldt
I mean obviously yes
I mean my callous answer is if that guy cares that much he gets to play the edition from 5 years ago lmao
:p
raven meteor
The whole
Assembling and painting minis thing is definitely the part of the hobby that I absolutely care about the least
And also would be the worst at
So I'm far removed from any consdierations on that front
wide veldt
:p
broken dew
Honestly WYSIWYG considerations do kinda also make my interest in tabletop lessen a lot
wide veldt
….. the what
rocky shale
I mean my callous answer is if that guy cares that much he gets to play the edit...
Good luck finding people at your LGS to play like 8th or whatever lol
broken dew
The whole thing with your model exactly matching what you are playing in your list
rocky shale
Assembling and painting minis is what GW cares about the most
I have never met someone who tried to enforse wysiwyg
sonic hare
my understanding is that as long as you have notes on what gear your using its tournament compliant?
desert jay
It's complicated
wide veldt
Where it’s like
It wants to be this balanced super competitive war game
But it also wants to be super flavorful and have a bunch of fun options that don’t necessarily line up
Idk
broken dew
my understanding is that as long as you have notes on what gear your using its t...
Honestly for me i'd also just want to proxy in stuff for lore and a lot of stuff i was looking at seems to have been stuck in legends as well so that's also part of it
rocky shale
10th is more balanced than any previous edition
wide veldt
Not claiming otherwise!
rocky shale
It's still a borderline impossible game to balance
They make crusade as the flavor playground generally
wide veldt
Yea which IMO is why they should just abandon the competitive balancing part :3
broken dew
I also think edition change killing off playability for my dudes would kinda kill it for me so it's probably for the best i never got into the models
raven meteor
I feel like 'abandoning competitive balancing' is hard because like
People really really like things Being Fair and things Not Being Fair drives them nuts
Regardless of how competitive or casual a game is
rocky shale
Yea which IMO is why they should just abandon the competitive balancing part :3
Like just publish stuff then never change it?
rocky shale
Cuz like that's awesome if you get a codex with all the fun fancy shit, but if you were an admech player this edition and got no changes you'd probably just stop playing
wide veldt
Oh yeah I mean
You can have non-comp balancing
It’s not a big deal actually lol
I’m just in a bad mood
raven meteor
😔
wide veldt
Sorry about it lol
raven meteor
But yeah broadly I'm liking getting into 40k
Bolt pistols not being worth taking on your officers is like, fine
I'll just take plasma
I'm liking sisters a ton
floral herald
Yea which IMO is why they should just abandon the competitive balancing part :3
I've been around for that and it wasn't good
broken dew
I still kinda want to make some of my guys from my homebrew chapter as minis
wide veldt
Fair
floral herald
I started playing in late 4e when there were still 3e codexes around and the beginning of 5e codex trends
broken dew
I did go a bit overboard on giving them intricate designs though so i'd probably just do the chapter master and his elite guard
floral herald
And basically when a new army came out they were (usually) very OP until the next, stronger army came out
And everyone else just had to suffer that until 6e
wide veldt
The actual changes I’m gonna shit on are the removal of scatter and perils and proper psykers
Bring all that back
vital barn
I am a giant fan of wargear options even if some of them are a bit mediocre
people get very annoyed about having a single dead line of text on a card for the benefit of the guy who actually wants power sword guard sarges, though
floral herald
I have a soft spot for templates but they were also kind of functionally the same as the modern setup but flamers are less random and there's like 50 perverse incentives
I am not big on d6 attacks weapons though
vital barn
blast templates on big artillery guns are good and fun
blast templates on random grenades less so
since you throw 10 of them and spend an hour in resolution
floral herald
But you could usually just assume that small blasts would hit 3-4 models and large blasts 5-7
raven meteor
I second this
Not because I want to learn psychic rules (I don't) but because sisters just got a whole new unit that only really distinguishes itself as an anti psyker unit or very scuffed assassin
vital barn
HH3e has a few dead wargear options but honestly it does surprisingly well
chainswords and bayonets are a bit sad, but that's about it
there's a reason to take each of the four kinds of power weapon
floral herald
But you could *usually* just assume that small blasts would hit 3-4 models and l...
Exceptions for close order drill guys and deep strike clusters and such
wide veldt
Psyker being essentially a negative tag is insanely fucking weird
It is actively the worst part of the stuff I have read about the game
raven meteor
I second this
Not because I want to learn psychic rules (I don't) but because s...
(the sword and board lady for celestian insidiants does make a really cool replacement model for celestian sacresants tho)
broken dew
The shoulder capes are a vibe
floral herald
But it's Wolf Scouts Hate so you gotta stan them
sour sequoia
I also think edition change killing off playability for my dudes would kinda kil...
I mean, if you like marines, you’re set for life
raven meteor
It's very funny that their scuffed 40k rules dropped before the kill team rules proper
Or, uh, their models
sour sequoia
GW literally declared a 5 alarm fire because space marines were sub 50% WR and the deepest codex in the game means you can run and win with 95% of your units
floral herald
It's very funny that their scuffed 40k rules dropped before the kill team rules ...
That happens relatively often
raven meteor
The kill teams being units in 40k proper too feels sooooo tacked on
I appreciate the novitiates for being infiltrators but like
I know what you are
The sanctifiers meanwhile are just like
Nasty
Yuck
rocky shale
I second this
Not because I want to learn psychic rules (I don't) but because s...
Welcome to kill team datasheets
floral herald
Sanctifiers seem pretty decent
floral herald
Scouts is nearly obligatory and cheap-ish scouts on any imperium is good
wide veldt
Or is it just smaller scale 40k
floral herald
Do kill teams have different rules in… kill team
Completely
sour sequoia
Yes, completely different game
floral herald
KT has about 5% rules commonality with 40k
wide veldt
Oh wild
sour sequoia
Bolters are scary ass weapons in Kill Team as opposed to filler dogshit Now In Strength 4
floral herald
(It's probably higher if you get to brass tacks, but it's not similar at all)
sour sequoia
The teams generally feel quite like their factions and inspirations in bighammer, but I’d call it like 15% shared DNA
broken dew
I mean, if you like marines, you’re set for life
I suppose so
raven meteor
Oh wild
Yeah kill team is a skirmish wargame, as opposed to a full one
The novitiates and sanctifiers, for example, are two whole 'armies' in KT
As are the Celestian Insidiants
broken dew
But i also wanted to run four saturnines and a tartaros for my chapter master and his elite guard as part of my theoretical army, iirc proxied over a centurion devastator squad so there's other things
raven meteor
God Im excited for Insidiants
The anti psyker focus spooks me BUT I am happy to have a Proper sister kill team
broken dew
I cam up with like 1685 points of a list looking back at my notes
raven meteor
As opposed to Novitiates and like
The five hobos who live behind the convent
atomic apex
my big Kill Team scale difference moment recently was being surprised at how wimpy Tomb Crawlers are in 40k
compared to the huge shitkickers they are in KT
raven meteor
Sanctifiers seem pretty decent
Also mechanically they're quite fine I suppose yeah
Especially for price
Four hand flamers, two plasma guns, model restoration, scout and all
What Disgusts me is this
broken dew
But i also wanted to run four saturnines and a tartaros for my chapter master an...
Actually it was the four Saturnines, the Tartaros, and the Chapter Ancient proxied over the Centurion Devastator squad(1x sergeant, 5x centurions)
wide veldt
Dawn of War is one of the only times I’ve seen full ass war on the scale of like…..
40k
floral herald
compared to the huge shitkickers they are in KT
They're honestly just Very Bad in bighammer I feel
raven meteor
Also mechanically they're quite fine I suppose yeah
Especially for price
Four ha...
Ewwwww
Why is this unit so Messy
Why is there a death cult assassin in there
Why are there five model types
floral herald
The Transdimensional Isolator is the strongest gun in kill team
Probably wouldn't realize that
But they are cheap
floral herald
Ewwwww
Why is this unit so Messy
Why is there a death cult assassin in there
Why...
It's not super rare in general and extra common with kill-team crossovers
Wardens of Ultramar or Dark Commune for example
floral herald
Probably wouldn't realize that
contrast
raven meteor
Yeah! I was elaborating on why I found a lot of the kill team ports kind of nasty to look upon
Honestly looking at them mechanically it's a little wild that a 110 point unit gets that many hand flamers AND plasma guns and can also bring models back without a hospitaller
broken dew
I should look into finishing up the army i was thinking up even if it never makes it past theory
It was fun
floral herald
It’s worth noting they only get 1 plasma gun but they seem strong
atomic apex
contrast
yeah the Isolator is incredibly scary in KT
and in the maingame it's slightly more AP
viral crest
contrast
Also I should mention:
Units have like, 7 wounds?
7 wounds for humans, Astartes have ~11
atomic apex
Astartes have 14-ish usually, with some room downwards for more stealthy units
meanwhile the Tomb Crawlers themselves are like 21 wounds in KT, with 3+ save
rocky shale
It's how many of your original characters you can put in the squad
Or it might be objective control
It's how good it is at standing on an objective
wide veldt
Mhmhm
atomic apex
it's how much objective control each model in that unit contributes, yeah
sour sequoia
Three is better than avg for a vehicle a lot are 2 and Very Big Ones are 4/5
So someone needs to stand 4 Whole Guys on avg to take a point from that tank
Unless you’re doing something funny like GSC ten million OC2 bodies or the Guard & Skitarii stuff thats effective OC5 and 6 per guardsman or something ridiculous
vital barn
skitarii are funky because they hit everyone else next to them with OC-1 from being too spicy
which means they outcap an infinite number of non-battleline chumps, at least
thin ibex
I've learned today that chaos predator destructors do Work
Especially if your opponent has no real way to reach out and harm it well
wide veldt
Okay so
From what I’ve seen online
Even from people who don’t want psy phase back
It seems like how 10e did psykers is considered universally bad lol
rocky shale
Its underwhelming but its not like a detriment to the game IMO
Psykers are just not really special at all
Theyre just keyword flavored buffs and guns
wide veldt
No for sure
sour sequoia
Psychic being certain Abilities or attacks with a tag is fine imo so you can specify that certain things are psychic defenses but the problem is then so much Psykerness is. “Deal some mortals” or its a flamethrower or its the GSC Magus in which case it’s abysmal dogshit
jaunty dawn
They should do the aos thing honestly
I think also a thing missing from hh comparisons is that while the disciplines do give guns they are force guns
And force is still an actual mechanic that you roll for
So like if ppl need a procedure to make psychic feel different then hh is satisfying that
The other issue is partially that 10e uses universal rules for weapons but only has like 4 special rules
Which hh also avoids by having 3000
quaint compass
They have half of the weapon/unit tags in specific units, such as One-Shot.
Basically nullifying the point of em
vital barn
10e has a whole bunch of universal special rules, they just don't put them in an index and write them out in full on every unit and strat instead
jaunty dawn
I mean they dont really with weapons is my point
Like theres definitely stuff that should be consolidated (and needed to be consolidated since 8th frankly) but they very rarely give specific special rules to weapons
Regardless of how unique that ability would or wouldnt be
vital barn
Other than Force weapons, which would be one tag, all the HH mind bullets are just guns and melee weapons with the psychic tag too
It's the generic spellcasting rules and having a choice of disciplines that makes it work better, a single discipline is not much more in-depth than a 10e psyker even if it has a bit more juice.
jaunty dawn
Im talking about the fact that force involves using the psychic rules (rolling leadership/willpower) as opposed to being strictly a gun with a keyword that just keys off who can roll a fnp
On top of that, force can be used for multiple different things cause it can affect any stat
And then also theres actually the possibility of making the psychic gun an interesting profile because theres many special rules to do with it beyond force
Like deflagrate which is otherwise only used on volkite etc
Whereas giving a mind bullet devastating wounds is just like wow okay thats like 25% of the weapons in the game
Hh disciplines do kill a lot of the bloat by not having six powers etc but its like a 10 page section of the rules for like one unit outside of a specific subfaction
But that becomes more worthwhile with daemons n stuff
One thing I like about disciplines is the also giving passive special rules like fear
thin ibex
i kinda do think, with all the units who have like special ways to get fnp's against psychics, that psychic attacks were a bit more threatening
in some way
as far as how 10 did psykers, I dont hate it? I think in practice 99% of psychic disciplines were unused and had almost no usable abilities, and the ones that did often had mega op ones that slipped through
and then most psychic abilities were psychic test gated "Heres some mortals"
or an aura or buff
which turns out, psykers generally still have
without a gate
where they didnt really come through in 10th, is that the feel of psychics didn't feel all that impactful
despite their role in the lore/narrative, and their points cost
i think the TSons approach it in kind of a cool way with sorcery points and a spell list, but i also kinda dont think everyone should get that
paper bluff
I play custodes, necrons, knights, and world eaters. I have never had a psychic phase. Nor shall I ever will
The extent of my psychic is sometimes ally in custodes with that one inquisitior
tired cairn
Necrons are a pretty good candidate to have definitely-not-psychic powers though
And I think C'tan in particular used to?
thin ibex
im a tau player, we historically just died a lot
CTan just had some special weapons or a datasheet ability rather than like a roster of options
the generic ctan shard had you pick some
but yeah, generally right now hte psychic tag just means that some targets will have special defenses against those attacks
might be cool to see psychic have some sort of in-built benefit as well
jaunty dawn
The other thing that was weird abt the psychic phase was that it meant like
If you were a psychic buff army they went off after movement and if you were a command buff army they went off before for completely arbitrary reasons
thin ibex
side note, i do also think more armies could interact with the command phase better
at least in a broad sense, it feels to me like the phase where your leaders/heroes are making choices
or are supposed to be
jaunty dawn
Yeah
quaint compass
Which AoS implements better
jaunty dawn
Wtff
Also feels like a weird time for it tbh
I wonder if its just meant to be a museum or a whole campus with us manufacturing
still warren
Just the public facing side of warhammer world considering it's supposed to open up in 2027 and it's gonna be next to dc
thin ibex
definitely weird ass timing to do it in the US
floral herald
politics gets rotten in the US
Warhammer world coming
Kinda tracks in a bleak way
jaunty dawn
Makes the warcom twee emperor reference extra fun
quaint compass
Need a hammer to break the ICE, I guess
pastel rampart
Based just outside Washington DC, this new Warhammer World will be a flagship venue that celebrates Warhammer in all its forms: gaming, painting, modelling, storytelling, events, and community.
Yeah I don't think manufacturing will come here but you can certainly go and play a game.
tired cairn
I'm guessing it was in the works before... all this. But yeah
floral herald
So when they say “outside DC” do they mean Maryland (good) or northern Virginia?
still warren
Gonna be next to Langely
soft willow
They used to have a manufacturing plant in that area back in the 90s
Pretty sure it was in Maryland.
floral herald
It was yeah
soft willow
One hopes they'll try to keep it there.
tranquil ivy
we love Fights First in this household
junior summit
Yea which IMO is why they should just abandon the competitive balancing part :3
various games have tried this and it ends badly
I.e. battletech, where every tournament has its own set of custom rules because otherwise the game is functionally solved
paper bluff
I think a competitive scene is unhealthy for any game in the way of fun.
soft willow
I strongly disagree. I enjoy a good competitive scene for a game and find egaging in that aspect of things fun.
I get it's not for everyone though, and the idea that it has to be can be an issue.
bright dove
Competitive is just asking for different expectations than casual
soft willow
A big part of why setting expectations with your opponent before playing a game is important.
Also important, nobody can tell you that there's a "right" way to play with your toys. Engage with the game how you enjoy it, just make sure everyone's on the same page on how to do so.
topaz elk
Chatroom, I remember hearing in fantasy, of the most common races to find in the empire it was
Humans
Halflings
Ogres
Is the bit about ogres being common true?
raven meteor
iirc ogres do their own thing but also commonly do mercenary work?
topaz elk
Yah I do know for sure Ogres are extremely common mercenaries in the empire
But also you can find ogre mercenaries basically everywhere
quaint compass
Dwarfs are fairly plentiful in WHFB's Empire
topaz elk
There’s very few people they aren’t willing to be hired by and very few unwilling to hire
topaz elk
Dwarfs are fairly plentiful in WHFB's Empire
Ah yah, they’re also common I remember
paper bluff
There’s very few people they aren’t willing to be hired by and very few unwillin...
If you could feed them generally ogres are on your side, then war hammer fantasy
The problem becomes being able to keep feed them
quaint compass
The enemy forces provide that
pine matrix
Good life to be made as a mercenary ogre, eating beastmen and orcs all day
jaunty dawn
The tight edition life and bs about rules vs models affects the state of 40k far more than caring about the competitive scene ever will
sour sequoia
The competitive scene is 95% chillers tbh having played into Team Australia and Art of War guys the scene is orders of magnitude different from how it used to be
Seconding the tight edition life being bullshit I’m dreading the next few months and looming 11th because GW’s def gonna take it as license to check out after dropping all this 500 worlds stuff untested
pine matrix
I've always thought if I ran a wfrp game I'd want to emphasize things like dwarven diaspora in the empire, it's a really fascinating topic
floral herald
Like it took most of the edition for everyone to get a book lol
pine matrix
I love the idea of communities based around refugees from fallen holds that still hold rigidly to the old clan structures, even though it's like 4 generations past
junior summit
I think a competitive scene is unhealthy for any game in the way of fun.
I find competition and optimization enjoyable
pine matrix
And young dwarves who want to strike out away from that kind of group is like incredible PC fodder
junior summit
If the goal is to win it seems very strange to me to say that trying "too hard" to win without actually cheating is out of bounds
raven meteor
I love the idea of communities based around refugees from fallen holds that stil...
I thought this was waxing poetic about the short edition life for a second 😭
I like competitive scenes for games because they keep games alive and create a separate space for all the people I never want to play with 💀
vital barn
If the goal is to win it seems very strange to me to say that trying "too hard" ...
there are many games where I am OK with a banlist because some stuff just makes it boring
but if there's nothing at that level then yeah, go as hard as you like
(he says, looking at his page and a half long banlist and houserules doc for Exalted 3e because this game is really too maximalist to be played out of the box)
junior summit
yeah I'm fine with BT having banlists because without restrictions the system is pretty extensively solved but that is to some extent creating your own game by taking slices out of the broader corpus
jaunty dawn
And like the thing about it is an unbalanced game doesnt come with big labels saying only play this if youre sweating
They look exactly the same as other options, and some amount of optimisation is like the intention of game design. Using stuff that works together just makes sense
So you go in like oh van saar have a big plasma theme (in n18) ill take some plasma guns thats a narrative choice. Oh no plasma guns are incredibly op especially in van saar and now you’ve built and painted a team that ruins the game. Better luck next time!
The reality just kinda sucks unfortunately
sour sequoia
Horus Heresy I legitimately think has a problem rn with people doing Gamer Phrenology to make a list thats Fluffy And Lore Accurate And Also Good But Yours Is Win At All Costs Bullshit and then I look inside and the fluffy list is forty sunkillers
jaunty dawn
Yeah
tired cairn
This needs an edit of that two kingdoms meme
sour sequoia
Someone stares me dead in the face saying “yeah this shit busted lmao” and I can respect it
jaunty dawn
I mean you could cause like
Yeah a company sheet will probably say 3 squads of sun killers
That doesnt mean itll make a good game
sour sequoia
It the same shit and I love both ends of the spectrum
tired cairn
all my Tyranid lists are fluffy because I generally lose
rocky shale
Fluffy lists are the ones I beat and tryhard lists are the ones that beat me
junior summit
Horus Heresy I legitimately think has a problem rn with people doing Gamer Phren...
my list is the mass deployment of chapter ancients during the drop site massacre which is why its 30 dreadnoughts
wide veldt
Oh sorry for starting a whole thing about comp lol
I just felt like shit and was being bitchy tbh it’s fine
floral herald
Comp vs fluff is an argument in wargaming older than most of us tbf
jaunty dawn
Yeaahhh
jaunty dawn
There is also definitely like an ability to go too far with it as a design input
Its just not really why stuff is happening with 40k
wide veldt
Yeah like
Okay big IMO
MTG goes too far with it
As a tabletop example
Warhammer doesn’t ban units so Yknow what
Good enough for me
jaunty dawn
There is one marine unit that essentially got “restricted”
Halved the amount of desolators you could take in a balance patch
atomic apex
Warhammer doesn’t ban units so Yknow what
they can also implement errata a lot easier, so it's not as necessary
Wizards doesn't like to do functional errata for MtG, because it's not like you can change what's printed on the card
which makes it more awkward to implement in physical play mainly
wide veldt
I mean you can’t change what’s printed in a codex either and it’s now like GW has digital rules officially huh
atomic apex
yes, but the rules still aren't on the actual game piece you use to play
thin ibex
i think some amount of competetive scene is healthy for any game intended to be adverserial
because it can force the game to be honest with itself
but its not really a like binary state of either comp or fluff
though as a side commentary, i also think people phrase bloat and fluff as the same thing; or fluff and minutia
a game i think about, when it comes to minutia, is the campaign for north africa, and how having greebles and endless minutia does not make a good game
atomic apex
CFNA is also an intentional shitpost about that exact thing tbf
thin ibex
very true, but it illustrates that point pretty well
There's a sliding scale on all of this stuff
imagine if competetive warhammer let you bring a sideboard of units
to help you make match up swaps
atomic apex
that you have absolutely zero flexibility after list building is honestly kinda weird to me
floral herald
The GW version of banning is basically making something overcosted
Which is admittedly, better imo
tired cairn
It's also way funnier when they fail and have to keep increasing the point cost
thin ibex
you would think that having to build TAC lists would mean you see a lot more hybrid builds and weapon usage, but because of faction skew, you actually see more skew lists
like the grand majority is marine players, so it doesn't matter much that as far as across all factions, there are more T3 bodies, so statistically something that handles that would be good; you need to be able to handle t4 2w 3+ bodies
desert jay
The MEQ standard
still warren
charred bridge
I like these primaris marines
Space Plumbers chapter, every bit of their equipment has the word plumb in it
wide veldt
So do CSM have primaris now somehow or are they just like
Weirdly shorter
Than normal marines
charred bridge
Fabius did steal a gene seed of the OG Primaris
But imagine if they just went nowhere with that and its never explained what he stole it for
past sphinx
also theres renegade and chaos primaris now
such as in remnant blade
suck it cawl some of your dogs did infact slip the leasg
leash
tired cairn
we have chaos juice
The chaos marines just got bit bigger without fanfare, yeah
jaunty dawn
Chaos are generally shorter than primaris though yeah
charred bridge
Taking warpoids
jaunty dawn
Lore wise they havent gotten bigger, theyre just in the scale gw decided to use and already existed for thousand sons and some other nich places
tired cairn
They are pretty close though right? And bigger than Marines Classic right?
jaunty dawn
And more recently is the basis for horus heresy
No primaris are way bigger
But yeah bigger than the previous scale
Emperors children specifically are primaris sized, though
Because they got long boi juice
tired cairn
Oh. Hmm
charred bridge
Fabius gave them tall
jaunty dawn
Like
tired cairn
I guess Chaos is prone to having more knick-knacks that make them look taller
past sphinx
models on the table the models are just a bit taller than a stanrd legionaries
but you fix this is big ol bat wing helmets
tired cairn
Thousand Sons wear tall hats to intimidate their enemies
jaunty dawn
Berserkers and thousand sons are just regular csm size
This is terminators but
The only old models here are the indomitus second from the left and the cataphractii second from the right
Primaris indomitus terminator in the middle is massiveee
While chaos indomitus, on his left, and new cataphractii, on the right, are the same height as each other and shorter
And the new mark ii and the chaos legionaire are also the same height
paper bluff
Because they got long boi juice
Slaanesh knows a thing or 2 about bones.
floral herald
The Emperor’s Children range is so tall lol
wide veldt
Saw the EC primarch recently
Did not except him to be one of the fucking sick as hell demon ones
Angron also awesome
past sphinx
EC are tall as fuck
jaunty dawn
Do they also have heels
tired cairn
EC clearly should be like thousands sons size. But instead of tall hats it's tall platform boots
tired cairn
Do they also have heels
I think no, but because they have cloven feet instead
So they might technically be tip-toeing all the time?
jaunty dawn
Probably
jaunty dawn
Same outcome really
desert jay
Did not except him to be one of the fucking sick as hell demon ones
All the surviving traitor primarchs are daemon princes now
wide veldt
Oh shit really?
floral herald
Pete might be Something Else
still warren
What's Pete? I know Lorgar has been cultivating in his goon cave for the last 10 thousand years
desert jay
Well also with an asterisk on Alpharius who is complicated, he’s been apparently killed several times so still might not have taken
pastel rampart
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Pete or Lorgar get models this year.
desert jay
This edition probably, but I doubt this year
pastel rampart
Lion was '23, Fulgrim '25...hm, yeah maybe it's every 2 years.
Which, if we're going by patterns here, might actually be a loyalist primarch next year.
desert jay
I think it’s more 1 loyalist 1 traitor per edition, though clock is ticking for 10e
pastel rampart
Well, okay, release order was:
Mortarian and Guiliman, 2017
Angron, 2022
Lion, 2023
Fulgrim, 2025
desert jay
And Magnus in 7e
floral herald
What's Pete? I know Lorgar has been cultivating in his goon cave for the last 1...
We’re not sure he’s not normal and didn’t. Red the gods to become what he is now
pastel rampart
Oh yeah Magnus was 2016, I tend to forget about him
past sphinx
the blueprint for the dogshit cult army playbook
release 1 big grand old model
5 units
and a codex
desert jay
Except Death Guard which got to eat good
past sphinx
DG got a whole box and such idk why they do so well
desert jay
Honestly EC has a good spread of unique stuff too but it’s a “at what cost” scenario for losing so much of the shared shit
pastel rampart
I think it’s more 1 loyalist 1 traitor per edition, though clock is ticking for ...
Wasn't Lion 10e?
past sphinx
EC is the lesser embrassing little brother of all this mess
pastel rampart
I think they came out like, the same month?
It's frustratingly difficult to find exact release dates now that search engines have gone to shit.
desert jay
He was close to the edition announcement but several months before launch
I could probably find the warcom article
soft willow
Yeah he hit alongside the end of edition narrative books.
past sphinx
ah man trench crusade is doing the James workshop speedrun
hilarious
a single drop of that ambrosia that is a somewhat popular wargame and they have jumped into putting that steel between their teeth
pastel rampart
The heck are you talking about
past sphinx
you know how they where pretty foreward about being accessible and using stl's at the start?
rocky shale
I think that the TC devs did some takedowns on models that were basically 1:1 copies of the ones they sell?
past sphinx
basically they got some plastic in some boxes and all thats been axed
but not really
rocky shale
They're just doing less stls in the future
past sphinx
its all been very confusing in the messaging ive seen im mostly confused at this point
rocky shale
pastel rampart
Yeah uh we got some sort of source on all of this--oh there we go
past sphinx
This is just growing pains really
big "ah fuck man this is actually succesful" vibes
pastel rampart
I am admittedly kind of tuned out of the game because the release of the physical book has been delayed several times, the crap release of 1.0 (which they have fixed admittedly), and other factors just kind of killing my interest in it.
past sphinx
30% of the model range is incredible and 60% is absolute visual nonsense noise for me and that really killed a lot of my interest
rocky shale
I think moving to plastic releases makes a lot of sense for the longevity of the game
past sphinx
oh yeah like at this point this cant be just something puttering along
it has
REGISTERED TRADEMARK
and
BRAND APPEAL
rocky shale
So yeah it wouldnt be Trench Crusade without huge drama freakouts every 6-8 months
pastel rampart
30% of the model range is incredible and 60% is absolute visual nonsense noise f...
Given my Mordheim background I would've just used whatever I wanted anyway so that's less of an issue, lord knows I can convert damn near anything.
past sphinx
Quar my beloved can lope along for like a decade out of a dudes one man operation in his garage adn then get picked up by Wargames atlantic and get a real boost
but this has like
spiteful "GW bad" dipshits all up on it
and that has muscle in it
id love to give a go at converting for TC but man ive no idea where to even start
rocky shale
"Its bad when a creative wants to make money from their product" energy
past sphinx
you pay ur artists by letting them live in your house and attend your orgies
a grand western tradition
rvtvun to just having a weird guy in your spare bedroom that just paints like trees and stuff all day
pastel rampart
id love to give a go at converting for TC but man ive no idea where to even star...
Honestly like, Wargames Atlantic has some WW1 models that'd be a good starting base.
past sphinx
holy shit WA made a plastic fidwog!
these things fucking sucked ass to build in pewter
soft willow
Indy game thread is leaking into Warhammer for once.
pastel rampart
https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/classic-fantasy/products/skeleton-army I got their giant skeleton army box and that's gonna be some Tomb Kings in the near future.
soft willow
Quar plastics are good, hopefully more folks pick it up.
past sphinx
if anything deserves some mainstream success its quar
that man has been working hard for years
while i dislike a lot of WA particular stuff for modern/scfi i think the fantasy and historicals are great
pastel rampart
Their not-Catachan are leagues above the GW ones, at least.
junior summit
https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedMinis/comments/1onql3t/trench_crusade_moving_awa...
yeah this one tracks honestly
I was always a little curious as to how STLs were supposed to be profitable when piracy is trivial and you buy a STL once
broken dew
Looks fun
floral herald
I dig it
I think it's extra funny on the storm speeder since it's already bristling with guns
charred bridge
TIL Space Marine Attack Bike is a thing
soft willow
Is it still around or is it legends?
wide veldt
Got dam farsight is really fucking good
junior robin
New year new army got me 
mental birch
New year new army got me <:sadcowboy:572822626456698892>
Lol dame
Same
I also pledged 100 models
jaunty dawn
I managed to stop myself from buying the siege box
Though if it doesnt sell its probably gonna lurk temptingly in my lgs
pastel rampart
floral herald
soft willow
Why do I feel like I recognize that board?
tired cairn
Slimnoid has been working on it for a while now
It looks sick by the way. Very impressive
pastel rampart
Oh no that's not me.
floral herald
I love that sunken boat
tired cairn
Oh no that's not me.
Oh. Well, no credit to you then. But it still looks sick
Were you working on that style of terrain or am I totally off base?
pastel rampart
I want to build such a board and now that I have a 3D printer it'll be a lot easier but I'm still working with a friend to clean out and tidy up their basement so we can put a table down there.
And yeah I was, I got a few ruined buildings but I haven't worked on that project in a while.
I only got about 6 buildings into it. I do have to adjust the floor heights because they're a bit short and hard to fit models in there because of it, or at least more modern ones. I think 3" per floor is probably better than 2-2.5".
tired cairn
Six buildings is still pretty good. Hopefully it's not too much of a pita to change the floor heights
pastel rampart
Unfortunately they're already built and painted so there's not much I can do about them now without breaking apart some stuff, but it's not so bad that it's unusable or anything.
Most of them are like this so y'know, still fine.
Pretty happy with this one and the unfortunate skeleton.
This unreasonably huge one I have to revisit because it's too difficult to fit models in there, so I gotta shorten the back wall.
Basically done but never painted so I can still go back and make some adjustments.
pastel rampart
I love that sunken boat
past sphinx
genuine fire
rocky shale
Soon is like 6 months
cloud flicker
Maybe some reintroductioms of customization and phases.
cloud flicker
Soon is like 6 months
Oh lmfao.
desert jay
10e was announced at Adepticon 2023 in March, released in June
Age of Sigmar 4e was announced at Adepticon 2024 in March, released in July
raven meteor
If we have any concrete details regarding 11e, I have not been informed of them!
desert jay
And then Horus Heresy 3e was announced at in May 2025 (can't find the event), released in August
So uh... find out what the year's big release is this spring (it's probably 11e)
Everyone just assumes it because 40K and AOS have been on a three-year cycle since 2015. (30K slotted into the cycle starting in 2019)
cloud flicker
I just saw something or other about it.
Might've mixed up headlines with something else.
desert jay
FTR, I think 40k 11e releasing this summer is a safe bet
cloud flicker
Gotcha.
I've been wondering about the state of the game since I left.
Still a lotta changes I didn't and don't like.
soft willow
Expect it to be a tweaked ruleset edition not a full new index edition though.
upper bluff
I think the one thing everyone is wishing for is a return of psychic in a similar fashion as AoS 4e spellcasting
Unit specific stratagems basically
With a chance to fail
thin ibex
Tbh, this edition was pretty successful, I'm hoping 11th isn't a radical rules shift but just a refinement
upper bluff
Yeah, 10th had some problems that need fixing but I think overall its good
desert jay
Yeah I also think it's reasonable to expect a shift like 6e->7e and 8e->9e
desert jay
I think the one thing everyone is wishing for is a return of psychic in a simila...
Forgetting about the Tau players huh?
upper bluff
My wishlist is basically just psychic and wargear returning kinda. Like the sydonian dragoon having separate datasheets for spear and rifle is actually neat imo
upper bluff
Forgetting about the Tau players huh?
You could easily make ethereals have their own magic move just like Admech could have canticles
Not literal magic just techno babble/inspiring speeches that functions like magic
desert jay
Ethereals did in some previous editions IIRC, but were not popular units to bring
upper bluff
Oh a third thing i would want in 11th is online rules but let's be honest that's least likely to happen out of my three
desert jay
In part because people didn't like a psyker-like that didn't have mortal wounds or deny the witch
thin ibex
i honestly don't think that many people are wishing for the return of psychic
i at leat know im not
not as a phase anyway
I would like to see a little bit more involved psychic options
but im more than happy without a psychic phase, and more than happy without everyone getting their own psychic discipline with 70% stuff they wont ever use
upper bluff
Yeah I should've clarified I don't want psychic phase I just want psychic to be like AoS magic/prayers and not just weapon keywords that only hurt you
cloud flicker
I think the one thing everyone is wishing for is a return of psychic in a simila...
That was my biggest thing yeah.
Or one of my top two biggest things.
Psychic phase felt important to the flavor.
Customizable units are probably a bit more important though.
desert jay
I talked about it earlier this week, IMO wargear costs aren't the issue
The issue is just that some wargear sucks
And that's not new either, plenty of wargear was not worth paying extra points on
cloud flicker
Yeah.
vital barn
I do think it is a lot easier to justify stuff like optional special weapons if you're allowed to charge points for them
I also just like customising my little dudes
coming up with fun Archmagos builds sparks joy
tired cairn
Wargear not costing anything effectively removes the choice of taking wargear. Though I think people don't take all the termagant special guns, lol
rocky shale
In 9th your two options were no wargear or the one good expensive wargear option (most of the time). Then there were a bunch of other options you could take to shoot yourself in the foot.
In 10th your only option is to just take the good wargear or to shoot yourself in the foot.
Ultimately not a huge change except for units that maybe had a good default loadout.
tired cairn
There is a possibility of having the choices be meaningful without points. But yeah
desert jay
Some units have multiple options for good wargear, but certainly not all of them
cloud flicker
I also just like customising my little dudes
That's the main thing.
Making cool Crisis suits and having the guns I put on them directly translate to the game is cool and fun.
jaunty dawn
No wargear sucks
Like the fact that was the state of the game for the majority of its existence is a colossal failure of achieving game design goals
upper bluff
I just think that making weapons that are just worse into alternate datasheets with new abilities would be neat
Like heavy bolters over las canons should have some upside even if it's not especially good
jaunty dawn
So like wargear points would be nice n all but ill take wargear being viable any day
Yeah definitely
Like the tau battlesuits while they do restrict certain loadouts what does still exist has a solid role
upper bluff
I think that's the best choice between a million microoptions with war gear and everything being free
rocky shale
Like heavy bolters over las canons should have some upside even if it's not espe...
They do currently, they're much better if you need volume of fire. It just happens that most of the time volume of fire is easy to come by elsewhere in the army. So you take lascannons when you have the option.
upper bluff
Also giving war gear options their own datasheets could also make smaller armies bigger
rocky shale
Stuff like a starcannon is a wierd profile though, where at S8 AP3 D2 they're like a plasma, but at 2 shots you almost always take a bright lance for 1 shot with higher everything else.
upper bluff
Even if it might not look the best giving list builders the option between volkite votann datasheet and graviton canon votann is good for people who like list building
rocky shale
Also giving war gear options their own datasheets could also make smaller armies...
The only issue is that it also makes big armies completely ridiculous
Theyve done a good job with like battlesuits and scourges
upper bluff
Oh right rule of 3...
rocky shale
But if you did that with space marines dear lord
rocky shale
Oh right rule of 3...
Also that
upper bluff
Oh you just meant space marines looking gigantic. I don't think that every wargear should have their own datasheet just the drastic ones
vital barn
People get extremely annoyed about wargear with a point cost being a bad pick but don't seem to mind wargear without a point cost being similar
upper bluff
But that's another good point
vital barn
putting a bunch of prefab units on the board rather than customising my own guys is vastly less interesting to me in general
certainly I think there's a happy medium of having most wargear be free swaps and then special weapons and similar having small costs attached, since that means you actually can run the units of ten guys with stock guns that the box can build as well as dudes loaded for bear
desert jay
Theyve done a good job with like battlesuits and scourges
I think Carnifex is another good candidate TBH
floral herald
Oh right rule of 3...
There’s a way to sort this but it’s archeorules
jaunty dawn
They used to have separate datasheets already haha
But now screamer killer got replaced so
desert jay
Yeah Screamer Killer used to be a specific subtype but now is its own box
tired cairn
You only really need melee vs ranged carnifexen
desert jay
But the Carnifex box still has a lot of other options
desert jay
You only really need melee vs ranged carnifexen
If you're going Latin with it it's carnifices, it's third declension like codex/codices
past sphinx
Latin is a language dead as dead can be, first it killed the romans now its killin me
rocky shale
What skitarii box?
jaunty dawn
For heresy i think
viral crest
Question about LOS
Are ruins infinitely tall?
Like, if you have a monster that's taller than the ruins, shooting at a monster that's taller than the ruins, do they have Line of Sight?
sour sequoia
Question about LOS
Are ruins infinitely tall?
Like, if you have a monster that...
are they on or off the footprint and do they have Towering
viral crest
Off the footprint and neither
sour sequoia
in that case they are infinitely tall
viral crest
Thank you
raven meteor
Dialogus (45pts): Divine Aspect, Bolt pistol, Dialogus Staff
Palatine (60pts): Litanies of Faith, Palatine blade, Bolt pistol
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Sisters Novitiate Squad (100pts)
10x Sisters Novitiate Squad (100pts)
3x Paragon Warsuits (210pts)
3x Paragon Warsuits (210pts)
Immolator (115pts): Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta
Immolator (115pts): Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta
Immolator (115pts): Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta
Immolator (115pts): Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta```
```Triumph of Saint Katherine (235pts): Bolt Pistols, Relic Weapons, Warlord
Hospitaller (70pts): Eyes of the Oracle, Bolt pistol, Chirugeon's tools
Hospitaller (85pts): Sanctified Amulet, Bolt pistol, Chirugeon's tools
Hospitaller (60pts): Bolt pistol, Chirugeon's tools
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Battle Sisters Squad (105pts)
10x Celestian Sacresants (140pts)
10x Celestian Sacresants (140pts)
10x Celestian Sacresants (140pts)
5x Seraphim Squad (80pts)
5x Seraphim Squad (80pts)
10x Sisters Novitiate Squad (100pts)
10x Sisters Novitiate Squad (100pts)
Mortifiers (70pts)
Mortifiers (70pts)
3x Paragon Warsuits (210pts)
3x Paragon Warsuits (210pts)```
Made some sisters armies 😌
Narratively the first is Argent Shroud and the second is Bloody Rose
For the Argent Shroud I heard that six sister squads is actually workable, got some advice on supporting that, and went with it
While Bloody Rose is pushing the Sacresant + Hospitaller approachIMO I would turn some of those sisters squads into dominions or retributors
but like yeah those do be lists
raven meteor
I'm unsure what to drop to make space for the upgrade but maybe.......
I'd like for my sisters to be good anti-infantry and as I understand it base battle sisters are not actually great for that
rocky shale
Generic sisters squads are just spraying S4 AP0 shots out
You generally take them for their sticky and not actual damage outside of special weapons
Dominion are faster and get storm bolters, meltas, or flamers thag can all deal some good damage
raven meteor
Yeahhhh
I've heard not great things about storm bolters but they do appeal to me
With Divine Precision they seem like they could be pretty good?
rocky shale
Retributors actually dish out the hurt
4 hb or heavy flamers ans they rr1s to hit and wound and get +1 to hit and wound against anything that has killed one of your squads
Repentia hit like a truck too
rocky shale
Yeahhhh
I've heard not great things about storm bolters but they do appeal to me...
What is divine precision?
Oh divine guidance
raven meteor
Army Of Faith Stratagem that-
Gives +1 AP to all of a units attacks
Gives you a miracle dice if any of those attacks kill a model
Yeah I got the name slightly wrong!
rocky shale
If you're running army of faith shouldnt you grab some jump pack units for the strats?
Normal Bolters are just kinda nothing guns
raven meteor
😔
Also like
I do see that the stratagems get buffs if applied to a jump pack squad
And I do like Seraphim
But like
Hmmmmmm
How often will I have a Seraphim like Really Close to an allied model when they're probably best served deep striking and shooting up the backline and such
rocky shale
Angelic descent is really good
They also make blinding radiance an aoe -1 to hit which is quite good if the rest of your army is a giant infantry blob
raven meteor
I admit I find myself just kind of not wanting to do more jump packs 😭
Maybe I find another detachment
Or just focus on the Bloody Rose army for now, I'm much more comfy with it and there are actually bloody rose models for tts
But yeah like
This is why I like the SoB
So I like the idea of building around This
Paladin nuns with ARs
Bringers Of Flame seems cool, but range 6 is so short and some of it's stuff wants well
Flamers
Which
I don't like fire weapons and don't really want to build a whole army around them
rocky shale
Not liking flamers but rolling with sisters is crazy
That's half your special weapons
raven meteor
I will use them but I just don't like the idea of them dominating my army yknow
Like, I enjoy novitiates
Cheap infiltrators with two flamers a pop, neat
Seraphim, deep strikers with loads of hand flamers, neat
I will garnish with them, for tactical purposes
I just find them as a weapon deeply uncool and given to unpleasant jokes
Bolters and meltas are both peak though
rocky shale
The novitiates have a spot basically only because they're your only infiltrator but they basically do no damage
Poor poor autoguns
Dominion are your scouts which are fun tho
raven meteor
I will use them but I just don't like the idea of them dominating my army yknow
...
Unfortunately I seem to have dropped into a phase of the game where bolters are pretty bad!
(Unless you are a space marine and you get the Long Long Bolters)
raven meteor
The low model count of Retributors displeases me but considering I was looking at Custodes earlier and the Sagittarum custodes have essentially the same weapon loadout for 100 more points (I realize A: they are tougher and B: Sagittarums are undewhelming as a Custodes unit) I am willing to take a chance on them
rocky shale
They're basically havoks but 1W with a 6++
If buffed from shooting at a unit that killed one of yours it's crazy
Hitting and wounding marines on 2s, rerolling 1s (hitting on 3s if no heavy)
Also with dominion you can split the unit with an immolator so you have 4 special weapons and the superior and then 5 with the simulacrum to be chaff.
Both halves still have scouts and a reactive move
floral herald
Unfortunately I seem to have dropped into a phase of the game where bolters are ...
Bolters have never really been good
Bolter models are mostly there to eat wounds for special weapons models and add supplementary fire
past sphinx
you have to deal with the drone bases
and thats a psychological cost
possibly to great to bear
bare?
hold.
desert jay
And also painting them
sour sequoia
is there any cost to assigning every tau model 2 drones?
Currently no. GW also removed them being mandatory tokens that must be on the table physically because it was actually causing massive issues with gameplay as people angle to see drones and then get told oops tokens yeah im outta LoS
rocky shale
thoughts on this tau list i put together?
Strike teams are pretty much just not worth taking vs breachers
The double kroot shapers dont really make sense to me since only 1 can lead the carnivore squad
Flesh shaper is prob better
In general the 20 brick of karnivores is a bit wonky since outside of the kroot detachment then do only have a 6+ armor save so theyll die to a stiff breeze
wide veldt
The double kroot shapers dont really make sense to me since only 1 can lead the ...
nah
rocky shale
Oh didnt see that line
I still wouldnt run a 250pt brick of units that are that fragile in this detachment
wide veldt
theyre kinda there as my advance guard to pick up objectives and stuff, as well as just like
i like kroot
desert jay
You are allowed to run it as two 10-mans each lead by a shaper
rocky shale
The sticky objective is worth bringing like 10 or 2x10
rocky shale
As 20 together theyre just kinda a blob of chaff to blow through with random crap guns
2x10 at least you can be on two objectives at once
I'd still go both flesh shapers to get the fnp to make them have some sort of save against AP1
wide veldt
mhmhm
rocky shale
Otherwise its just:
How many shots hit
Okay wound on 3+ so 2/3 wound
AP1 no save whoops
Otherwise you could just drop the strike teams and either pick up more stealth suits or maybe another broadside
Oh and I will say that while farsight with the sunforges is like the obvious line to go with them, putting him with flamer starscythe suits goes hard
rocky shale
6 flamers with +1 AP +1 to wound is solid
You cant fire flamers in engagement but you do get support systems to fall back and shoot
wide veldt
That’s true
Part of the problem with embedding farsight tbh
Is that dropping him in melee is very attractive
IMO
I haven’t read many melee armies tho so idk if he’s actually good in melee
rocky shale
He's okay by himself but you're still not sending his squad in against substantial melee threats
For 85 points his abilities alone are solid, the sword is kinda a "oh maybe dont charge this with trash"
If you dont give him a squad then he doesnt really get much benefit from his own abilities
wide veldt
Mhmhm
Any other thoughts?
Does the general comp look good? I tried to balance infantry killing with like
Anti tank/character turbo fuck guns
rocky shale
But for this list my minimal changes verion would be
Split kroot to 2x10 and go double flesh shapers (-25pts)
Drop both strike teams (-140 pts)
Move strike swiftly off the cadre fireblade (he's going in a devilfish so it wont work) onto one of the kroot leaders
Drop strategic conquerer (-15 pts)
(180pts to spend)
Add 1 more cadre fireblades for your breachers (+50pts)
Add 2x5 vespid stingwings (130pts)
rocky shale
Does the general comp look good? I tried to balance infantry killing with like
I think this math works out ^
wide veldt
So what’s the push for the stingewibgs
rocky shale
Theyre awesome action-doers
wide veldt
Everything else I agree with but that I don’t see
rocky shale
They deep strike, do an action or score a secondary, then return to reserves to do it again
Plus theyre replacing strike teams which just dont do much
Plus the neutron blaster is a surprisingly punchy gun if you need them to finish something off
wide veldt
YEAAH
So tbh my plan with the strike teams was that I wanted to try and get more out of detachment giving everything assault
rocky shale
A full 10-man squad isnt terrible either for being killy, but in this list they're mostly just doing objectives and finishing off damaged units
wide veldt
But yeah the breachers are just better sadly
rocky shale
The 1 AP is a game changer between the two
And breachers wound T3 units on 2's with RR wound situationally
wide veldt
Also holy shit the hammerheads main canon is fucking bananas
rocky shale
The railgun is a funny gun that hates invulns
rocky shale
The 1 shot is either doing all the work or no work
vital barn
railgun: many editions of being the exact same gun with the exact same strengths and problems
rocky shale
It does have built in rerolls to hit and wound so youre doing okay there
vital barn
loves blasting Leman Russes and even Baneblades, hates something like a Dunecrawler that has an unremarkable toughness and wound count with a 4++ stuck on top
rocky shale
Like you’re a serious threat to *knights* with that thing
Yknow whats a serious threat to knights in montka?
...
Your entire army having lethals for 3 turns
wide veldt
As my that guy is pissing me off kill him button
Lethals is the “nat 6s don’t get saves” right
rocky shale
Your breachers will put solid wounds on a knight if theyre getting lethals and rr wounds
rocky shale
Lethals is the “nat 6s don’t get saves” right
nat 6 hits auto wound
wide veldt
Yeah I guess with that you just like
Dumb a fucking burst cannon
In a heavily armored enemy
And at least a third of the shots will wound
desert jay
Lethals is the “nat 6s don’t get saves” right
Dev wounds is the one you're thinking of, nat 6s to wound don't get saves
rocky shale
So lets say you fire a guided unit of breachers + cadre fireblade into a big knight...
desert jay
Only things with the For The Greater Good rule can spot or be spotted for
rocky shale
Can Kroot hounds spot?
they dont have the army rule
wide veldt
Aaaah thank you
I knew something was stopping it but couldn’t remember
But yeah continue
desert jay
There are ways to give Kroot infantry the army rule but I don't think there is for hounds
rocky shale
So lets say you fire a guided unit of breachers + cadre fireblade into a big kni...
If the knight has no cover, this is avg 8 damage
If you spotted with a stealth suit its 9.4 avg