Warhammer and Such

[raven meteor]

All good lol

I just got excited because I thought it was new stuff for them

[floral herald]

We're probably gonna get rules soon I think

[junior summit]

yeah breachers are also good

[thin ibex]

Can someone vibe check this iron warriors themed crusade list?

Does it feel iron warriorsy?

I got a lot of treads and an oath bound dreadblade ally

And as far as the missile launchers, the crusade has a guard player that makes the blast mode useable

[raven meteor]

This is such an extremely funny ability for a slaanesh demon to have
The Tzeentch guys have SUPER omniscience I must imagine

[sonic hare]

The new Cursed Legion detachment seems really great for destroyer cult armies. Am I evaluating correctly?

[thin ibex]

We now have what, 2 destroyer detachments?

[atomic apex]

yeah

Annihilation Legion and the new one

Cursed Legion does seem pretty good though

[dense idol]

annihilation legion is a strong contender for worst detachment in the game, so it's nice to have a real destroyer detachment

[desert jay]

Also two canoptek detachments

But this isn't the first time they've revisited a detachment theme with a better version, look at eg. the two Night Lords ones

[wintry mist]

why does it have faces

did they need to make it with faces

[desert jay]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/uebtnxvg/500-worlds-titus-strike-fast-and-hold-the-line-with-new-space-marines-detachments/

Orbital Assault Force gets to deep strike anything

(Pick any 3 units before deployment)

Bastion Task Force is... battleline focus? Sure why not

Battleline guys get to advance/fallback and shoot/charge, plus get a sorta-markerlight ability

Reclamation Force is Ultramarine-only and about brawling over objectives

[desert jay]

Oh also you can give a squad of assault termies led by a termie captain the battleline keyword

[pine matrix]

Oh neat, deep strike with drop pods

[raven meteor]

So @floral herald your source on reddit may have just been confused

[floral herald]

Oh huh

[tired cairn]

This is funny for me in terms of what you'd think a gunship would be for

[thin ibex]

yeah dont shoot anyone with any of your like 30 guns, just come pick me up

[still warren]

Mgsv fulton system

[thin ibex]

no dad, i dont want you to shoot them, i want to hit them with my sword, just come get me

no.... no, the turbo laser would be cheating, also can you drop me off later too

don't shoot then either

[jaunty dawn]

I think the only dedicated gunthing is the sky raptor

Fire raptor

But like storm eagles and thunderhawks and stormraven are called gunships

[charred bridge]

Using a whole aircraft just to move a foot? Using the Taylor Swift strat I see

[tired cairn]

The space marines are holding the guns

[charred bridge]

It's just a ship until the space marines latch onto it then it's a gun ship

[topaz elk]

Chat, I feel like death watch has the worst record of any space marine organization

I don’t think I’ve ever read a story where they do something… positive

Like morally in general but also for the imperium’s own backwards belief system

[sour sequoia]

Victrix Guard down to three wounds

The evil is defeated

[jaunty dawn]

Deathwatch attacked the orks

In the sol system

It was a bad time for imperial

[floral herald]

Good that shit was excessive

I wouldn’t have complained if they just added Malextrix Invaders or something as a spiky deathball I have no morals when CSM are included

[charred bridge]

They should have sent Titus, he just would never die from just perma ressurecting against melee grunts

[floral herald]

New warp talons look better yay

[broken dew]

That looks pretty fucking good

[paper bluff]

Hey, now the adeptus custodes sisters of silence detachment still exists

[thin ibex]

tbf, they are gunships with transport capacity, theres no doubt they are carrying very big guns and a lot of them

Who's stronger, Titus or Maelum Caedo?

[upper canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF5eVltokAc

||This is just another Space Marine Trailer||

[raven meteor]

That
Is
REALLLLLLLLYYYY
Funny

[vital barn]

I cannot get over sniper boy's haircut

Obi Wan Kenobi with a really bad barber

[atomic apex]

lmaoo

||Marines getting to aura farm harder than the orks in their own trailer ||

[past sphinx]

are those new released pictures?

[floral herald]

Should be

They’re snipped from the banner art for the new datasheets

[atomic apex]

though if those are Cyrus and Orion, there was no way anything was gonna happen I guess

[floral herald]

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_07-01_warhammer_40000_faction_pack_chaos_space_marines-2khifxospj-ohzo6rfaw7.pdf

[vital barn]

see the correct way to do this is "gorgutz casually power klaws one of the two unhelmeted space marines to death" but can't be having that

[atomic apex]

yeah they definitely should have done that to some mooks at least

[raven meteor]

They could have just stomped a bunch of anonymous space marines 😭

Literally why have two helmetless protagonists in the trailer

[atomic apex]

yeah it's not a great choice I think

[vital barn]

it's especially funny to me that the Marines get this little slideshow of half a dozen unit types killing orks and the orks get to bring a) boyz and b) lootas, both of which are just chumps with guns

that's it

you got the trailers the wrong way around, where's my deff dread

[past sphinx]

god they look great

[atomic apex]

yeah this showed like nothing about the orks really

[vital barn]

"crash faster" is a pretty good line admittedly

Gorgutz carrying

[floral herald]

I’m stoked

I have some unbuilt Raptors I might need to kitbash

[past sphinx]

i do love a lot of the bits from the old kit

[floral herald]

Or just make warp talons

[past sphinx]

the heads are great on chosen

[junior robin]

and now I'm sad we dont have a boss in mega armor with a power claw

[upper canopy]

it is

[raven meteor]

Idle gripe:
Why is Rosterizer so laggy compared to New Recruit 😭
I'm having to pick between 'no attached leaders' and 'taking 5 seconds of firefox hanging to select a unit to attach a leader to it'

[rocky shale]

NR does have attached leaders but it's a paid feature

[charred bridge]

Inb4 game is buggy af at launch and super unstable. Gorgutz could be a prophet with meta awareness he's in a video game but he doesn't think about it cause there's a guy to fight over there

[raven meteor]

Yeahhhhh
If it was pay once like pathbuilder I'd happily do it, but not a subscription 😔

Anyhow!
I have made a 2000 point army, the template spat out by New Recruit thereof is too big to paste here

Army Of Faith, 5 Battle Sister Squads, 2 Novitiate Squads, 1 Seraphim Squad, 3 Immolators, 1 Castigator, 2 Dialoguses, 2 Palatines, 1 set of Paragon Warsuits, and Morvenn Vahl

I did not wholly go in on the 6 sisters idea, and instead did 5
Each have a Simulacrum and two meltaguns as their special weapons
3 are split by immolators with the bolter gals holding objectives and the melta gals dying for the emperor and Miracle Dice out on the front hurling meltas at dangerous things
2 remain whole on foot and each are led by a Palatine and a Dialogus, giving their meltas a bit more of a genuine threat, especially in later rounds where miracle dice are stacking up
The Big Scary Heart of the army is Morvehn Vahl and her three girlfriends, who kill anything they look at as is standard
The Castigators and Immolators augment the anti-tank further and threaten sturdy infantry with judicious application of heavy bolters
The Novitiates complicate attempts at board control in the early game, snag miracle dice with Simulacrum, and then likely die, the Seraphim drop in when a weak spot is sensed and clear the area with lots of hand flamers

Broadly-
Bolters and hand flamers handle chaff
Meltas and heavy bolters handle elites
Miracle dice-supported meltas, twin linked multi meltas, twin linked autocannons, and hunter killer missiles handle tanks
And The Girls handle anything really superheavy with help from the antitank

[past sphinx]

if your a bannerlord fan and a warhammer dweeb i highly suggest checking out the old realms mod

insane work

[viral crest]

Hey does anyone know of something like green stuff but not green stuff world?

[rocky shale]

Kneadatite

[tired cairn]

Pretty sure green stuff as in the two part epoxy has been around much longer than green stuff world

[quaint compass]

Milliput is also a contender, though less firm to work with

[tired cairn]

I like the ones that are sandable for gap filling purposes

[viral crest]

Thank you

[wide veldt]

Man I have never been sadder getting caught up on the newer editions than finally glancing at psykers

And seeing they don’t have proper peril anymore

It’s just all plasma guns now……

[viral crest]

Psykers 😭

[wide veldt]

Unrelated

[tardy vault]

And they don't even have proper spells

[wide veldt]

Saw a bolt sniper from the space marines

GOOD LORD

36 INCHES??

[rocky shale]

60" is real range

[floral herald]

It’s heavy bolter range it’s not so crazy

[sour sequoia]

The solution is one they reached in AoS and refused to do in 40k so I kinda dont mind it dying lmfao

Even Kharadron has lots of command phase stuff to do, every faction Has Stuff

99% of Psychic Phase Enjoyment is thousand sons and grey knights players saying ‘oh boy time to table my opponent with mortal wounds that have no counterplay’

[wide veldt]

That’s fair lol

I’m just used to like

[vital barn]

HH manages to have more interesting psykers and still doesn't have a psychic phase

[wide veldt]

24’ being long range for infantry

[vital barn]

admittedly they're not 7e level crazy but there's a lot of juice in generic librarians

[wide veldt]

I really think they should bring psychic phase and perils back

[floral herald]

I think a psychic phase is unnecessary but psykers shouldn’t be passives and a gun with hazardous

[sour sequoia]

Oh that I agree with

[vital barn]

I think I've posted about how the HH3.0 interpretation works before

[sour sequoia]

But I think they need abilities that aren’t shitting mortal wounds onto the table

[wide veldt]

Yeah there’s definitely a middle ground

[vital barn]

it's still basically "here's a psychic gun, here's a passive" but there's also a generic class of "pass nerd-stat check to cast buff/debuff" and that really makes all the difference

[wide veldt]

I do think the explanation they gave of psykers slowing down the game is slightly silly tho

[vital barn]

with every army getting a generic deny the witch reaction

[wide veldt]

Yeah the command phase also slows down the game lets get rid of that

Yknow what so does shooting

[sour sequoia]

And I legit have not seen a compelling mechanical identity for like TSons besides oopsie daisies second shooting phase except you dont save and I dont roll anything

[vital barn]

7e psychic phase was the most involved one and that was usually pretty fast

[wide veldt]

It’s just so weird when the warp being chaotic and dangerous being like one of warhammers like

[floral herald]

Real shit

[wide veldt]

Big things

[vital barn]

unless playing against daemons

[floral herald]

I lowkey don’t love stratagems and the command phase but they ain’t leaving

[sour sequoia]

Knights player

[floral herald]

So this is just grognard complaining

[floral herald]

I mean yeah but I don’t see how it’s related

[wide veldt]

You get what I mean tho right

[vital barn]

to be fair I agree

strats not my favourite thing

[wide veldt]

Like I feel like it’s silly to say that it slows down the game

[vital barn]

HH reactions and generic command point spends in AOS are more my style

[wide veldt]

When it’s a major part of the games uniqueness IMO

[vital barn]

since it gives that interactivity without actually just being "press button to make army do its normal stuff"

[wide veldt]

(I do also think the command phase needs at bare minimum a rework)

[sour sequoia]

It is almost a constant for knights players I run into to at tourneys to complain about:
movement
reaction abilities
stratagems
Primary scoring
Secondary scoring

[floral herald]

The thing about the psychic phase which makes it awkward is that unlike the others the amount of access an army has to it varies wildly

[sour sequoia]

But this is also just me grousing

[floral herald]

Ok most of that it unreasonable

[sour sequoia]

I’m honestly in full agreement with everybody here besides ‘bring back psychic phase’

[wide veldt]

Yeah that’s definitely fair

Yeah I don’t need the psy phase to actually come back but like

The spirit of it

Give them spells

Let them activate them on the command phase idk

[floral herald]

I just don’t love stratagems because they’re generally “invisible power” which feels sort of lame to me

Aha I played my trap card so my Chosen are in Kill Everything Mode

[vital barn]

I've come to like reactions, as in a currency you spend to take generic actions on the enemy turn

like intercept, Big Overwatch, Return Fire

but the giant pile of army strats feels less cool to me than just having those rules on the units

and is also kind of clumsy

HH has 1-2 army-specific reactions and then half a dozen generic ones and that works well enough

since the army ones tend to be more niche

[floral herald]

Yeah reactions seem cool

I also admit I'm also a little bitter about strategems since the CSM 10e ones were... iffy on the start of the edition

Iffy as in "carrying the army" not bad though

Whether it was stupid sword of damocles from the Nurgle One or Khorne Chosen w/ Stratagem Buff being the most points efficient answer to anything in melee

[rocky shale]

I think the strats are cool for armies with like a normal number of detachments

Space marines kinda break this by having every possible stratagem accessible somewhere

You don't really go "oh man it's unfortunate that only the xyz detatchment has advance and charge" because there's 7/50 detachments with advance and charge

[sour sequoia]

Honestly understandable after comparing average GSC strat to average faction strat

Lotta boring dogshit compared to stuff like this

[floral herald]

yeah those are definitely more interesting

[rocky shale]

When your army rule is fun sometimes you get more interesting strats

Most SM strats are just "get keyword/advance or fall back and charge or shoot"

Or reroll even more dice because oath isn't enough you sicko

[reef pagoda]

it bothers me muchly how so many of the daemon engines are available to death guard, world eaters and thousand sons but not emperors children? i love my EC but i think im switching to the CSM codex for daemon engines and just painting them EC (and corprus brethren)

helsmiths of hashut are so cool i really want to paint up the roblox bull monster... i also want to try repainting my FEC with better technique, maybe overbrushing white on fleshtearers will make it look more flayed and less like just red goblins

[raven meteor]

See, I'm just here for the faction rules anyhow so I'm SoL 😭

[wide veldt]

Wish Wahapedia worked better on mobile

Also

For someone new to the mechanical side of Warhammer is it normal to like…. Constantly forget like, what weapons strength/toughness levels mean

Like in terms of “is this any good”

[raven meteor]

I sort of feel you
Cuz you have to know the general toughness of units to know how useful a given value of str is
Meltas have str 9! Awesome, I love this anti tank gun
........Most tanks have 10+? I see,

[wide veldt]

Pretty much the only thing I’ve internalized is that 10+ is for tank killers and tanks lmao

Yeah

[vital barn]

it got me for a bit when I came back to 10e after a long break, because in previous editions it was a lot more compressed

[raven meteor]

And then there's stuff like 'bolters are str 4 so easily wound most light infantry, but are otherwise bad at armor'

[wide veldt]

Bolsters being bad at armor is consistent across editions and never stops making my brain ow

[vital barn]

Guard/Eldar T3, Orks/Marines T4, Custodes/Ogryns T5 was how it used to work, with tanks on a completely different scale

[raven meteor]

They're frag missiles, trust

[vital barn]

now toughness goes real big and also means less

[raven meteor]

What really rots my brain is that flamers are as good at defeating armor as bolters

[wide veldt]

I mean mechanically it makes sense just in that like

Enough attacks will just brute force wounds on a guy eventually

No matter what

[raven meteor]

When they seem obviously like they should be better for just burning swathes of screeching tyrannids

And mostly just make a space marine look cooler when you shoot their giant hermetically sealed armor plates with it

[rocky shale]

Primaris bolt rifles and stuff usually do have AP1

Which makes them a little better

[raven meteor]

Oh right
Sisters just have slightly banged up hand me down bolters

[junior summit]

finished twice dead king: is good

admech get worfed again but they get sort of a decent fight and honestly I think the marines get it worse

[vital barn]

I'm just going to politely assume this was one of the shit paper-arks-mechanicus that are just battleships with vanity titles

at least there was no tapdancing all over a forge world or whatever

[junior summit]

it gets killed by a protagonist and 9 lychguard but they pin him down before shenanigans happen and offscreen ark mechanicus kill

[vital barn]

even if "admech units can't see to shoot because there's smoke around" was a little bit bullshit

[junior summit]

fwiw the space marine battle barge lands 70 marines and a dreadnought and then gets oneshot by a ram so, y'know

[vital barn]

yeah, I did raise an eyebrow at "heroic charge out of cover, scene ends, ship blows up offscreen, also we got the megafighter back somehow"

[junior summit]

yeah that one caught my eye a bit

[past sphinx]

ramming is always a viable option in space, land or sea combat

[vital barn]

to me the first book is like a 9/10 and the second one is maybe a 7

[junior summit]

I will say that the necrons fail to notice a strike cruiser that covered all its windows so poor vision goes both ways

[vital barn]

faction stuff aside, the pacing gets really wonky for a while in the middle

[junior summit]

that's not a joke btw

[wide veldt]

Admech getting worfed is fine

[junior summit]

It seems it concealed its initial approach through the infuriatingly simple means of covering all exterior light sources, and shielding its engine exhaust.

[vital barn]

I think Brutal Kunning is the only book in which the mechanicus does not get worfed so I kind of expected it

and they're a bit part in TDK

[junior summit]

like bluntly the fact that this worked is kinda stupid

the necrons admit it in the book but also really?!

tarp over the lights and set it to idle and it just goes ig

[vital barn]

I was expecting that to be more "we can't sense stuff in the greyscale dimension"

since they did say they were down to radio waves

[junior summit]

I think broadly though the worfing isnt as bad as farsight enclaves was and the marines do get a fair few licks in as do the admech

[vital barn]

the admech don't really do shit, they kill a Lychguard

the Marines have some fun moments

[junior summit]

but also the first book was pretty good and the second book dragged

the admech kill an immortal, I think they get a lychguard or two?, meaningfully threaten the protag and then scene end kaboom

[vital barn]

the Ark Mech is called out for having great guns by non-cron standards and then fails to do any damage to a single mining bot

[junior summit]

oh yeah that one was bullshit

the crusade ship gets it the worst imo since it just unceremoniously gets buried in flayed ones

[vital barn]

I only read one Farsight Enclaves book, what happened there?

oh in the finale?

yeah, flayed ones A-move

[junior summit]

farsight solos a battleship

[vital barn]

you know that sounds like Phil Kelly

[wide veldt]

Oh man I thought you meant like

They got worfed militarily

Oh no this is so much worse

[junior summit]

he flies in through a gun while its being reloaded and then ??? shenanigans ??? on foot now ???? massive explosion

[vital barn]

well, they do get worfed militarily

[wide veldt]

also sorry checking waha

The uh

[vital barn]

it's just in kind of dumb ways

[wide veldt]

The manta isn’t legends???

[junior summit]

manta is forge world

it exists in the awkward space between legal and not

[wide veldt]

Hm

Well it’s 2.1k points so it doesn’t matter cause it’s impossible to run in a tourney game

Still probably the single model I want most in the entire history of the franchise

Giant asshole spaceship

[vital barn]

in the farsight enclave book I read, the Mechanicus land a few million guys, starts throwing Tau into volcanos for the evil (I have no complaints there, beep boops love a good atrocity) and are then all killed when the half dozen guys Farsight brought with him press the "volcano erupt the entire planet" button that they had installed on the geothermal power plant for some reason

somehow all the tau are fine

[wide veldt]

fire caste

Immune to fire damage

Silly

[vital barn]

yeah but the water caste should be steam caste after that but they weren't

I'm not sure phil kelly is very good at scale

the bit I did find hilarious was that to contend with the Tau, Kelly sent in a brand new space marine chapter who had a refusal to wear helmets as a literal part of their chapter cult

me when I turn on Big Head Mode

[junior summit]

the volcano erupt the entire planet button is tau mcguffin doohickey

[vital barn]

they win the most recent one with one of those too

[junior summit]

yeah its a pretty standard plot

[vital barn]

although I can't really complain there because "press the button on the Win Artifact" is like BL 101

[junior summit]

I think honestly TDK has the least win artifact in a while

also admech dont instantly get scrapcoded and they actually keep up with the necrons in terms of thinking speed

sorta

so it's a better loss than normal imo

[vital barn]

yeah, solid B-

with Brutal Kunning at B+

the climax of TDK book 1 is good as hell though

[wide veldt]

Hey so question

[vital barn]

the battles in 2 are a bit threadbare but 1 has great ones

[wide veldt]

Are imperial knights uh

Any good

Actually

[vital barn]

also the tachyon arrow scene was great

love you Djoseras

I am no meta authority but Knights have basically always been an AT statcheck

so they're big, stompy and dangerous but most people are going to have something marked "kill that big knight now"

personally I find them boring as sin as an entire army but to each their own

[junior summit]

Tournament viability, in general, ?

[wide veldt]

Oh in general

[junior summit]

knights are unavoidably a skew list which produces very lopsided outcomes imo

[wide veldt]

What is a skew list

[junior summit]

Skewed towards a specific archetype

i.e. all tanks, all horde infantry etc

so with knights all of your opponents anti infantry doesnt do anything because you can shoot bolters at an armigier all day and do zilch

but their AT has nothing but good targets

[wide veldt]

Mmmm

Mhmhm

[raven meteor]

Imperial Knights are so weird
Until I got into the actual tabletop this last monthish I sort of assumed that like
Guardsmen drove the big robots or something
Or admech because it's fancy tech

[vital barn]

a large proportion of the knight houses owe direct fealty to some forge world or other

"questor mechanicus"

the in-game rules for this in 10e are totally worthless and should not be used if you desire to win ever

[broken dew]

I do like that there are just like

Fucking actual godsdamned knight houses

[charred bridge]

Got to give them credit, knights is very dead on naming with the noble knight houses

[broken dew]

That pilot giant robits instead of ride horses

[charred bridge]

GW is not subtle

Giant robots that ride giant robit horse piloted by a horse servitor

[broken dew]

Obligatory Lord Horrik mention (Shootas, Blood and Teef)||https://youtu.be/CQeLo2oMGEU?si=1mTn83CCjtfZwVMV||

[vital barn]

I actually quite like knights in lore

[broken dew]

Look if the bloody IT guy starts worshipping the router we can have medieval knight houses make a comeback

[desert jay]

It's specifically the "mechanicus forces mingled into a knight force" detachment that's bad, but there's not any rules outside that anymore

[vital barn]

They have house footmen as organic (if shitty) infantry, they have these big Mechanicus repair crawlers on mars rover balloon tyres that run after them to do field repairs and engineering and they deploy in big enough campaigns to have reasonable opposition

Knights on tabletop have none of that and are just an army entirely made up of baneblades

[desert jay]

They really should have house footmen in the codex instead of just taking whatever imperial agent squad is best

[vital barn]

I'd like them about six times as much if they could deploy a few squads of objective holding yeomen

[broken dew]

Having a lil knight retinue when said knight is an enormous fuck off robot is actually insanely fun and cool

[charred bridge]

I do like how Knights actually care about their servants even if it's sort of odd

[desert jay]

Also IMO having infantry squads around even makes them look cooler in dioramas because it provides a sense of scale

[wide veldt]

Learning that this guy is a real fucking character on the tabletop kills me lmao

[reef pagoda]

i like watching people convert their chaos knights

[desert jay]

When I was writing knight rules for conflictmallet I was doing three different squad options, which were roughly guard conscript-ish, cultist-ish, and scions-ish

[wide veldt]

Oh yeah can just any imperial faction take from the agents list?

[reef pagoda]

if i could convert a knight into a big fat slaanesh monster i would

[desert jay]

Yeah

[wide veldt]

I vaguely remember the answer being yes

Okay new question

[charred bridge]

The fact many knights run like raptors makes it cooler in cinematics

[wide veldt]

Why play agents

I mean I guess for their abilities but

[desert jay]

Don't play agents

[wide veldt]

LOL

[charred bridge]

Like when they just shoulder check through a cliff for an ambush while full sprint that looks peak

A titan can knock down something much bigger but not as cooly

[broken dew]

He is!?

[runic swallow]

That DoW3 announcement trailer is probably the coolest Knight and Wraithknight media ever and it’s like 30 seconds

[desert jay]

The answer, if agents were good, would be that agents lists can take a full army of agents units and have rules and stratagems that interact with those units

[broken dew]

Feel like they are more slow unstoppable forces than something that does shoulder checks

[desert jay]

Which is all technically still true without agents being good, but it's not worth it

[charred bridge]

Oh was that dow3, I did see it and it was sick. Although the wraithguard was kinda done dirty losing to 2-3 knights?

[raven meteor]

They apparently have a 0.0 win rate in the competitive rankings because no one even picks them

[broken dew]

The idea of putting a melee weapon on a titan still feels ludicrous to me

[vital barn]

Titans do melee, but we have very little titan animation that isn't slow and blasty and they are generally slow and blasty

I am still a huge fan of rock em sock em reaver as a Titanicus build

[charred bridge]

Isn't melee on titan mostly used to destroy titans and similar sized threats

[broken dew]

Titan melee suspends my disbelief a bit

[vital barn]

Chainfist + Gatling gun

[desert jay]

IIRC there's one detachment that is sorta viable but agents also have like no fans as an army in itself

[charred bridge]

Something something the slow blade pierces the voidshield

[desert jay]

People like the idea of agents but not what you can play

[vital barn]

Rip a hole in the armour, jam the gatling in and hold down the trigger like the AC6 trailer on a giant scale

[past sphinx]

you need a big hand so you can wipe offf the windshield eyes

[broken dew]

I can't really picture a battle where a titan walking up go something and punchkng it makes sense

[wide veldt]

So

Okay I have a big opinion here lol

[vital barn]

They're in a pretty similar weight class, I think it's fair enough

[charred bridge]

When a biotitan gets into melee with you

[broken dew]

Unless it's fucking uhhh

Abominatus

[wide veldt]

I think that they should combine agents and sisters again

Like they used to

With the witch hunters

[desert jay]

Unfortunately agents is a random grabbag of different imperial squads, and if one of these is something cool you like you can stick it in a guard army or sisters army or w/e

[charred bridge]

Or ork gargant just doesn't die and got into melee with you

[broken dew]

It can have melee weapons as a treat for being a Khornate daemon titan

[vital barn]

Eldar titan stuff is nimble and sneaky but like Eldar ships they're not in a whole different league to imperial gear, you can reasonably get 2v1ed

[wide veldt]

This is probably a bad idea but like

It’s what makes sense to me

They’re ostensibly the same faction

[desert jay]

The thing is agents isn't just the inquisition

[floral herald]

Witch Hunters was pretty much just SoB though

[vital barn]

My agents take is that basic Custodian Guard and Sisters of Silence should be Agents choices

[desert jay]

Agents the army is the inquisition, rogue traders/navis, assassins, arbites, and also a few sisters/deathwatch/grey knights guys

[charred bridge]

To me 2v1 seems wild for a species much more ancient, can't replenish numbers, and are master psykers with fancy wraithbone everything

[vital barn]

Five custodes in an army of guardsmen >>> an army of custodes

[broken dew]

Still love this art

[thin ibex]

Some commentary, but like... responding to some "don't play x" and "dont do y" comments. Honestly? Play what you want. There's room for skill expression to trump mechanical shortfall. If you plan to play competitively, that's a different story

[pastel rampart]

If a biotitan is within melee range it's basically over and you fucked up big time.

[thin ibex]

But you can absolutely win with "bad" factions and "bad" detachments

[runic swallow]

In context it seems reasonable

[charred bridge]

They do be wanting to get into melee, sure you killed one at a range but what about a few more

[thin ibex]

Go for what is interesting or exciting to you rather than what's good

[desert jay]

Okay yes, if you feel the call of an Agents list go play Agents

[wide veldt]

Is there a limit to how many agents you can take in a different army)

?

[thin ibex]

Most Metas are defined in a much smaller play group than the overall meta

[wide veldt]

My only interaction with the agents rules is always putting an assassin in my guard army

Because it’s nice

[vital barn]

Knights are deceptively agile and it's not like being old makes you immune to swords, much as custodes players would like the godgiven right to never lose a guy to less than 1/10000 of the entire Tau Empire or something

[desert jay]

But if you feel the call of eg. Greyfax specifically because she's cool, I would not rec buying 1800 pts of other Agents stuff to make her playable

[wide veldt]

And the guard are not uh

Good of

They’re not good at killing specific characyers

[broken dew]

I think it might be funny to try to run a space marine hoard, just spam out whatever the bsolute chapest space marine unit is

[thin ibex]

You'd better also think the other units are cool too lol

Space marine hordes are a thing!

[desert jay]

Yeah

[broken dew]

Either that or do an all terminators list

[wide veldt]

Also Rogue Trader has been making me wanna expand my horizons

Like looking into eldar

[thin ibex]

Turns out 2 wound, 3+ save models with 3+ in melee and range are generally strong in large numbers

[vital barn]

All termies gang is a classic army type

[wide veldt]

Act 3 is making me look really hard at Drukhari

[floral herald]

MEQ manspam is often pretty good

[thin ibex]

Black Templar are a notable marine body spam faction, and there are detachments to support it in normal marines too

[broken dew]

Is there a limit on running like

[floral herald]

Something I like about CSM is that a lot of their competitive lists put a lot of marine bodies on the field

[broken dew]

Chaplains or librarians and such

[charred bridge]

Is just assume with the head start and like old ones blessings and able to put up resistance against war in heaven Necrons their tech would be more of a gap compared to imperium

[vital barn]

BTs still have their cool mixed squads which is nice

[floral herald]

BTs are also kinda funny because for a while at least they were tank spammers

[thin ibex]

Rule of 3, generally, of any one data sheet unless it's BATTLELINE

[floral herald]

But also their version of company veterans is really good

[broken dew]

I'd assume so for whatever special abilities they have but i don't know for sure

[vital barn]

The Eldar in the War In Heaven are not the Eldar of today, even the Crons are shadows of their old selves and they took way less of a kicking

[floral herald]

Sword Brethren I am out of it

[broken dew]

I feel like dropping 2000pts of chaplains onto someones head would be really funny

[thin ibex]

Aeldari in terms of table identity trend to be really fast glass cannons that have special tricks they can pull

Usually you'll hit very hard but get wiped in response or if your positioning is poor

[charred bridge]

I'm mostly talking about lore level balance

[broken dew]

Morale is gonna be unmatched

[charred bridge]

Wargame kind of has to compress power gaps

[vital barn]

Generally eldar guardians in the lore are roughly Skitarii/Scion level, Aspect Warriors around space marine and wraith stuff around dread/knight level, which is pretty good in the grand scheme of things

[broken dew]

Bringing the entire reclusiam to the fight

[vital barn]

Eldar are scary but they're not un-facecheckable like Crons are

[desert jay]

But also like, you're allowed to take Sisters army and bring eg. Greyfax, an Assassin, an Inquisitorial Agents squad, and also two Arbites or Breacher squads

(Or a different combo of stuff)

[vital barn]

they're just very smart, very fast and unlikely to let themselves get facechecked

[charred bridge]

Eldar also had like at least 65 million year head start for their tech

[thin ibex]

A guardian is like aeldari militia, except that the craftworlders live a life of militant discipline and constant practice, so are as skilled as elite soldiers of other species

Aeldari also had a major disaster that kind of separated them from the height of their tech

[vital barn]

Yeah, and then they got stomped by Slaanesh and can't use their mega psyker stuff for fear of getting eaten, what of it

It's 40k, age does not correlate with tech level

[charred bridge]

It did for Necrons

[vital barn]

Tau are out here with mega railguns and orks are out here with the Unknown Device and also a stick

[thin ibex]

Iirc the drukhari have like the old aeldari mega guns, but can't use em because psychic, and the craftworlders don't use em because of the way that they are psychic

[floral herald]

Necron tech was crazy as hell back then and hasn't really gotten better though

[charred bridge]

They were asleep for almost the entire time

[vital barn]

Necrons are also the outliers who should not be counted

[thin ibex]

40k, to be fair, does kinda ride the "older is better" schtick pretty hard

[vital barn]

Eldar do get worfed nearly as much as my beloved Admech, but that's just because they should be manfighting Marines and so forth, they're not way better

[floral herald]

The Imperium does at least but they are the face of things

[charred bridge]

Daot humans though probably beat out Tau in tech level

[desert jay]

Except for Primaris shit

[charred bridge]

Older is better until we need money

[vital barn]

Yeah, and modern humans have worse tech than the DAOT did

[thin ibex]

Daot gets glazed so hard it's pretty hard to tell what's actually hyperbole and what's legit

[desert jay]

We had a thematic narrative arc going, Cawl!

[vital barn]

admittedly same goes for War In Heaven

[charred bridge]

So older is better

[vital barn]

Yeah, old Eldar are better than current Eldar

[floral herald]

Primaris stuff is also technically speaking, quite old

Since it's mostly HH-era designs they just cooked for a really long time

[vital barn]

In the same way that old crons are better than current crons and old imperials are better than current imperials

[stark cypress]

I wish they would bring back the men of iron sculpts.

[thin ibex]

I do think necrons are also limited by SK wiping their memory of their biggest guns, and otherwise infighting, but they are the most advanced faction in the game when they get their head out of their ass

[floral herald]

And even then you can see the spots where the decay sets in

[desert jay]

I actually wish they had more HH feel TBH

[stark cypress]

Imagine what you could with those for bashing?

[raven meteor]

I AM deeply amused that they felt the need to do New And Improved Marines but ALSO made them Secretly A Horus Heresy Thing

[vital barn]

Necrons are like Admech^2 in that they have even bigger bullshit guns and also even bigger robodementia, wierd honor codes and infighting

so they tend to be Potential Skeletons

[thin ibex]

"We can't use the FightWinnizer Ray because the other Phaeron said i looked fat in this armor, and also the stars aren't right, and it would be dishonorable. Maybe."

[charred bridge]

I would expect a tech focused race that's significantly older to have tech that makes them do much better unit for unit than a younger race

[thin ibex]

Necrons also aren't uniformly benefiting from their tech advantage

Warriors are effectively hyper resilient gun autamatons

All tactical throughput is from their leadership

[vital barn]

The Eldar have stuff that is generally "around humanity's good shit" but their deal is individual experience and psychic nonsense, not hypertech

[charred bridge]

Also why I'd expect a better match up than 2v1

[floral herald]

Their stuff is also a lot more advanced just in weird ways

[thin ibex]

Aeldari got like unique hypertech

[vital barn]

In the same way that Ork gargants have killed many many imperial titans, imperial titans can kill Eldar ones

[floral herald]

EG bright lance vs lascannon, the silly missile launchers, etc

[thin ibex]

Aeldari supposedly invented the chainsword

[charred bridge]

They actually care about user safety

[vital barn]

Their guns are cooler but it's not by a gamechanging amount

[charred bridge]

Their plasma weapons won't kill the user

[vital barn]

Horus Heresy Mechanicum had dark lances, for instance

[thin ibex]

They're missile launchers natively get that one pip of str!

[floral herald]

The missile launcher lore is funny

[stark cypress]

...

I wanna make a joke

[floral herald]

You might think the large missile shaped front is the missile

This is wrong

[stark cypress]

but I know I will get bonked.

[charred bridge]

This is why slaanesh was made

[thin ibex]

It's the little ports around the sides

[floral herald]

It fires tiny micromissiles from the vents on the front each one as powerful as a human missile

With the buttplug being a magazine

[charred bridge]

Prefall Eldar that weapon was for personal use too

[rocky shale]

Sisters players would riot if anything diluted their vibes

[vital barn]

Eldar tech is about at that half step up from imperial baseline that Tau tech is, except they're also all master psykers and fast as fuck boi

[floral herald]

For whatever reason they don't really get better fire rates out of this mechanically

[vital barn]

(and yes, they do have various super advanced nonsense but broadly their lascannons work like good lascannons, their meltas work like good meltas, etc.)

[raven meteor]

Personally my favorite Eldar Tech Thing is that their artillery howitzer equivalent just shoots a big glob of anime razor wire that falls onto whatever they're shelling

[rocky shale]

The fact that this is also true for reaper launchers makes me so mad

[thin ibex]

The biggest aeldari hypertech achievement was the web way, which no one has yet been able to replicate. Though the stc in the middle of the DA fortress monastery seems to be a device intended to tunnel web way paths

[floral herald]

Dark Reapers are so cool

[vital barn]

I thought the webway was Old One tech

[charred bridge]

Didn't the old ones make that

[vital barn]

Maybe I'm out of date on my frog lore

[charred bridge]

I thought they just gave the keys to Eldar

[rocky shale]

I kitbashed a bunch of corsairs into reapers and theyre sick

[sour sequoia]

Webway is ??? Because its been retconned 2 or 3 times to be shared between the war in heaven people now

[floral herald]

I like how Aspect Warriors range from like "screaming mythic visions of death" to "the personification of the eldar martial spirit" to "missile launcher skeleton"

[thin ibex]

I could be wrong, but its generally attributed to the Eldar isn't it?

[raven meteor]

(I do like the razor wire guns in general, warp spiders my beloved)

[rocky shale]

Dont forget Top Gun Protagonist

[pastel rampart]

Old Ones made the webway, Eldar just took it over.

[thin ibex]

Ah the classic archetype, missile launcher skeleton

[vital barn]

My favourite is "literally just a plane"

Lore: plane

Crimson hunter phoenix lord when

[floral herald]

I wonder what makes Crimson Hunters separate from Eagle Pilots?

[thin ibex]

How i feel about inertia-less drives for the necrons, being abridged by dolmen gates as cheat coding the web way

[vital barn]

I would actually read the shit out of a book about Eldar Maverick

[thin ibex]

Crimson hunter Phoenix lord would unironically be cool as hell

[floral herald]

I also like how the Eagle Pilot Phoenix Lord is just named "Fighter Pilot" in Eldar

[rocky shale]

Spirit of flame and destruction
Screaming vision of death
Martial spirit
Predator reference
Rocket launcher skeleton
Bird
Top Gun
Spider that goes to hell for fun
Whatever shining spears are supposed to represent
Ghosts? [legends]

[thin ibex]

I do like how like... baharroths perfected jump trooper warfare martial art equates to having a big laser machine gun and dropping grenades on people's heads

[vital barn]

Warp Spiders get a really good showing in Dominion Genesis by the way

That book has good Eldar in general

[thin ibex]

Big "dynamite is your martial art!?" Energy

[vital barn]

A wraithknight gets knocked out by a bunch of guard and an armiger but the exarch and his warp spiders fuck things up

[wide veldt]

Oh yknow I was wondering uhhh

Where the drones went

For tau

While looking at their list

[thin ibex]

They're still around narratively

[wide veldt]

Found them!

Little upgrade dudes

[thin ibex]

Pretty much all over the place

Drones are in every aspect of tau life

[rocky shale]

Warp spiders in lore are terrifying, warp spiders in game are like
If Lhykis is around, guardsmen blender
If not: extremely fast silly string guns

[thin ibex]

And are also AI! Tech heresy by imperial standards

[vital barn]

There's a great scene where Skitarii autoaim is fighting Warp Spider bullshit and after 5d predictive algorithm vs hell spider arms racing they settle on "point guns in every direction and hope"

they get a few but only a few

[thin ibex]

Dying to warp spiders sounds the worst but is also such a needlessly gratuitous and cool gun

[rocky shale]

I miss when they had dev wounds, felt more appropriate

[vital barn]

I'm sure Skitarii can appreciate being killed by a cool doohickey

[rocky shale]

For the danger spaghetti

[wide veldt]

Oh yeah I just meant like

They used to be actual models

Iirc

[thin ibex]

They still come in most sprues

[floral herald]

Drones as models has historically been a big ass headache for balance

[wide veldt]

Now they’re just little buff guys you attach to the unit

Which is better

[vital barn]

The models are now just tokens

[floral herald]

Since they were very valuable for wound allocation shenanigans

[wide veldt]

Oh yes no them being actual models mechanically was ass yeah

[thin ibex]

I do think they work better as equipment, though I like them visually being on the board

[wide veldt]

Also wow the shield drone is uh

Good

[charred bridge]

Drones for your drones

[wide veldt]

Adding 1 wound yo any unit is great

[vital barn]

There was a brief period where a rules exception accidentally let drones jink and go to ground at the same time for a 3+ cover save in the open

Unsure how that worked

[thin ibex]

1 extra wound is OK, most things eat a fire warrior for breakfast

But sometimes it's worth to get one more turn of spotting

[vital barn]

Drone hugging the floor and jiggling left and right furiously like a confused roomba

[wide veldt]

Oh drones are per model not per unit

Okay yeah less

Less good

Than I thought

[thin ibex]

Your Shasui gets one more chance at life

Or your shasvre get a little tougher, but you don't give all the suits 1 because they become a valid target for a secondary then

The leader gets a marker drone instead

[vital barn]

I know Tau are meant to be hyper disciplined and shiny but I always like to imagine tau drones getting various soldier slogans scrawled on them

Shas'O D'rip with the aftermarket drone covers

[thin ibex]

Oh yeah no I think Tau drones get a certain degree of lived with for sure

Especially pathfinder drones

Squads probably get attached to their fire team drones

[wide veldt]

Would u kiss ur drone

[past sphinx]

think of where that drones been

[junior summit]

also bubblewrap

[thin ibex]

Mostly docked on your squads devilfish

[charred bridge]

You say that as if I don't have a gf drone

[thin ibex]

It's a little funny to me too, thinking that tau don't really March anywhere unless their ride is broken

[vital barn]

I will say that Tau mechanised infantry compositions look awesome with all the integrated drones and turrets

[charred bridge]

They should have drone horses

[thin ibex]

Ethereals can get hover drones they ride

[junior summit]

tau are actually mechanized unlike everyone who isn't space marines or tempestus scions

[floral herald]

There is mechanized guard

[junior summit]

if your troops are footslogging meaningful differences you have fucked up

[floral herald]

Just not universally

[junior summit]

I left guard out because some regiments footslog

[floral herald]

And kind of ironically I'm not sure the famous mech guard fellas have ever fought the Tau

[vital barn]

I admit I have sometimes wondered if I could get away with running 30k Mechanicum using Tau rules since they have drones, giant robots and interlocking fields of fire in ways that 40k mech doesn't

Pask has, he was on Agrellan

[junior summit]

actually....is that it for mechanized units?

[thin ibex]

I love the mental image of how fire warriors and devilfish and attendant drones are a single organized asset, and the fish has anti armor weapons and a heavy gatling gun as fire support

[junior summit]

deldar use a lot of skimmers, that counts ig

[charred bridge]

Love how mechanized combined arms is just not common in imperium cause of HH so they divy up so no one regiment could be effective in case of betrayal, the few guard regiment that do mechanized combined arms do good

[thin ibex]

Steel legion vs tau would be a fun match up

[vital barn]

Mechanicus can be mechanised or airmobile but they also really like hiking for some reason

[charred bridge]

The artillery regiment probably hasn't ever worked with tank regiment before this fight and will accidentally shell them

[vital barn]

and their vehicles don't really show up in fluff

[wide veldt]

Waow…..

[junior summit]

the thing about the tau that really amuses me is that they fight a lot like the gulf war US did

[thin ibex]

I honestly love the dragonfly transport vibe and would try playing a admech 40k list that way

[floral herald]

Something something phil kelly interview

[thin ibex]

It's kinda what they were based on

[junior summit]

oh was it explcit?

[vital barn]

Unfortunately the archaeopter has been absolutely useless since it's introduction, in all three forms

Terrible unit in an edition that hates flyers

[thin ibex]

It's not great, but id try anyway

For cool points rather than victory points

[raven meteor]

Really? Lykhis doesn't seem all that useful
While the base spiders are 'Oops! All Flamers'

[vital barn]

I do think the mental image of a a Fortunate Skit list is cool

[thin ibex]

Lykhis is absolutely bonkers

[junior summit]

Lhykis gives them crit on 5+

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b3pc01/qa_with_gav_thorpe/

Aha

It's Gav Thorpe

[junior summit]

I introduced a variety of NATO-style innocuous three-letter-acronym formations, like Mobilised Hunter cadre, Dispersed Retaliation Cadre and Forward Commitment Contingent. None of them say 'battle' or 'war'... I cazn imagine the news back home is quite a sanitised version of the reality - like when we watched videos of 'smart' bombs and gun cameras blowing up stuff in Iraq but were totally unaware of what was really happening on the ground.

oh okay yeah that tracks

[thin ibex]

Gives the squad a like 24 inch threat range for getting anywhere you want, with adv and charge, and they come with a billion ap2 attacks. You can give the exarch a power blade array to double down on it

[rocky shale]

She's fighting for best PL with jain

[thin ibex]

Even if you don't charge, the range is absolutely crazy

[vital barn]

30k Mechanicum, as usual, was cooler and had huge trilobite shaped aerodynes that could unload a few hundred guys at their largest

Give me those GW

[rocky shale]

You're missing the fact that the warp spider exarch can get 10 lethal hits attacks

[vital barn]

I want to run airmobile myrmidon cults

with extra thallax

[runic swallow]

Gotta get more acronyms, and acronyms in acronyms to really get on top of that

[thin ibex]

I did miss that, but yeah Lykhis is incredible

Aaaalmost an easy auto include

[runic swallow]

And some really forced ones that they obviously came up with the acronym and then worked backwards from it

[thin ibex]

I know objectively, maugen ra is not the best PL, but he has over performed in all the games ive brought him in

[rocky shale]

He's ok but he is the worst

None of them are totally awful

[runic swallow]

Look, sometimes the dice play favorites and you don’t question it, just do whatever rituals they demand

[rocky shale]

Barry is also in a rough spot generally

[raven meteor]

Oh okay
So in this case you are more using the warp spiders as an overcoat for Lykhis than trying to use Lykhis to enhance the Warp Spider gameplan

[wide veldt]

Oh hey quick q about rules

What do the anti-x tags do

[rocky shale]

crit wound on X

[wide veldt]

Oh Jesus Christ

I’ve seen shit with like anti infantry 2+

My god

[thin ibex]

I did a meme "every phoenix lord + avatar" list, and the stand outs for me were lykhis, jain, asurmen, and maugen

[raven meteor]

Basically, if you roll that number or higher on a wound against that type of target, treat the roll as a 6

[thin ibex]

The fire dragon lord sadly under performed for me

[junior summit]

also anything she hits gets crit on a 5+ by the rest of your army which and aspect host has the ability to just give a unit lethal hits or sustained hits which means that things fucking die

[raven meteor]

Well I AM glad to hear the Lykhis hype because I do love the look of them

[rocky shale]

Windriders also all have lethal hits shuriken cannons

[thin ibex]

Asurmens entire squad got wrecked, but he alone did their job and clapped back lethally

[rocky shale]

Fuegan is also pretty insanely good, especially in seer council

[thin ibex]

Honestly a lot of that list was "this aspect squad is bubble wrap for the lethal phoenix lords payload"

I expected feugan to rock n roll, but he fizzled bad

[vital barn]

Somehow this is aesthetically pleasing in my head while any kind of Imperial hero pile isn't

[rocky shale]

In terms of competitive viability:
Lhykis/Jain>Fuegan>Asurmen>Barry/Maugen I think

[vital barn]

Might be because they're all colour coded

[thin ibex]

Barry was kind of a nothing potato for me, i guess he did score me mondo points, but he did no killing at all

He spent all game going places and doing actions

[rocky shale]

The common thread there is Lhykis has a 38" threat range and Jain has a 28" one

[thin ibex]

Lhykis is so useful for exploiting even a tiny gap in your opponent's formation

[wide veldt]

Tbh thinking on it I think as a rogue trader’s retinue would be the best way to flavor an imperial agents army

[thin ibex]

Jain squad wiped a terminator squad for me but then got mowed down by a land raider crusader

[raven meteor]

I'm still tickled to realize that SoB and Eldar have basically the same defenseive profile
It feels odd

[rocky shale]

Agents has detachments for all three ordos, assassins, and then imperial navy/rogue traders

[thin ibex]

Imperial agents is fun to do an Inquisitorial retinue or a rogue trader one

[rocky shale]

average experience

The only remotely decent agents detachments are navy and assassins

[thin ibex]

My shining Spears also deleted one thing and then immediately died after

There's like... no way to keep em safe

After they've committed

Decently scary though

Scorpions kinda didn't do anything useful for me sadly

[rocky shale]

Most bad eldar units dont have bad datasheets they are just too expensive for how instantly they die after doing one thing, which makes them trade poorly

Scorpions are basically good at playing up the board early and obliterating other scouting units

[thin ibex]

Yeah I need more Eldar games under my belt, my initial impression after like 2-3 games is "all my stuff is strong and made of paper and I need to learn how to shenanigans properly"

[junior summit]

the assassins one is bizarre because there's mandatory points increases for all of the assassins and some of the benefits are....esoteric

[rocky shale]

Eldar (especially aspects) definitely require a ton of reps

[rocky shale]

Some of them are great some are grenades on 3+ instead of 4+

The strats are actually good and like 2/4 of the upgrades are actually sick which makes it 2nd best detachment

[thin ibex]

In my upcoming crusade, I'm playing csm iron warriors, and they're kinda the opposite, I'm hoping to grind my enemies down with units that frustratingly persist

[junior summit]

the 3+ grenades one is called esoteric explosives which is why I phrased it like that

[rocky shale]

loooooooool

[thin ibex]

How do you even build the execution force list? It's all 4 assassins, and then anything you like?

[rocky shale]

IMO you'd only run like 3/4 still

[junior summit]

iirc you skip the culexus because +40 points for marginally better grenades is a bad deal

[rocky shale]

Then just all the even remotely good agents units

[junior summit]

vindi almost gets good but you have to give it "fuck you die" on a 4+ which is saying a lot for where the baseline is

[rocky shale]

You can always swap culexus in against like tsons

[thin ibex]

Is the theme mostly "stuff to distract your enemy while your elite assassin squad does the real work"?

[rocky shale]

no its "there are only like 3 good units in IA so we use them always"

[junior summit]

theres actually some solid infantry buffs in the stratagems but-yeah

most of the IA datasheets are shit

[thin ibex]

I heard you liked arbites

[junior summit]

you will also like....need allies with good guns

[thin ibex]

And navy breachers

Agents have drip value, not mechanical strength

Should do an execution force crusade army

[rocky shale]

theyre all epic heroes

[thin ibex]

That's a lot of crusade points

[desert jay]

I suspect when writing the codex, GW was tired of players throwing the good IA units in every damn Imperium list

[junior summit]

yeah

[rocky shale]

They had the solution in just making them more expensive for everyone else

[thin ibex]

Would be cool to do a rogue trader crusade army too

[rocky shale]

or they could have just made the strats/army rule crazy good to compensate

[thin ibex]

I forget did they give IA crusade rules?

[junior summit]

yes

[desert jay]

Yeah it's been over a year now and they could've made IA lists cheaper at any time

[thin ibex]

Maaan I should have done that instead of csm lol

[junior summit]

but really IA exists so Knights can access basic infantry

[desert jay]

IIRC, IA crusade rules are funky b/c they don't have many non-named characters

[thin ibex]

Knights can just do that with skitarii now

[junior summit]

only in one detachment and it's bad

[rocky shale]

That detachment is terrible lol

[thin ibex]

Don't we have generic Inquisitor and generic rogue trader?

[rocky shale]

The IA crusade buffs are fairly strong

[desert jay]

Give 👏 Knights 👏 yeomen

[thin ibex]

It may be bad, but its a cool enough concept that I like it anyway

[rocky shale]

If you somehow get a legendary inquisitor they get crazy

[thin ibex]

That kinda vibes

[junior summit]

I think the vindicare would be a lot cooler if he had better access to rerolls

because man does rolling a 1 on that guy suck

[desert jay]

Inquisitor, Rogue Trader, Navigator (bad?), and Watch Master (bad?)

[junior summit]

but also exploding a 5 wound character turn 1 is incredible pain and he can do it again later

[rocky shale]

Watch master good

[desert jay]

Oh also Ministorum Priest (I suspect also bad)

[rocky shale]

navigator is a tech piece for DS denial

[vital barn]

IA has a really odd grab bag list of stuff even by grab bag standards

I'd expect Custodes and SoS in there and Deathwatch filed under Space Marines unique chapters, myself

[soft willow]

All the Imperial Kill Teams they couldn't put elsewhere.

[vital barn]

I have always liked running inquisitors with my admech but generic inquisitors seem kind of lame now

[soft willow]

They should add Battlclade to IA.

[junior summit]

wait what does the vindicare's Heavy even do? He's already 2+

I guess it offsets any potential debuffs?

[desert jay]

Trying to remember if that includes cover

[rocky shale]

The good IA units are:
Subductors (cop jail)
Sisters splitting with immolators (melta access)
Sanctifiers (scouting flamer blobs)
Deathwatch Vets + Watch Master (this unit with 4 hammers and getting Lance from Imperialis Fleet strats is basically your best anti tank)
Some of the assassins
Navy breachers with Draxus (gives draxus wound rerolls)
Rogue Trader (deployment crazy stuff)
Rhino (keeps you alive, move blocks)

An entire Imperial Knight (you need anti tank)

[desert jay]

There's some order of operations stuff with buffs and debuffs to hit

[rocky shale]

cover is AP

[soft willow]

There's honestly a bit of a push to just avoid the anti tank in favor of just putting more shit out there to trade/clog with.

[vital barn]

I'm surprised you can get whole GK paladins in there

[rocky shale]

Thats basically the only way IA wins is by just trapping you in your deployment zone by giving 5 units infiltrate turn 1

[junior summit]

yeah iirc the standard IA ally is literally just canis rex

like a whole ass knight

[rocky shale]

canis or 2-3 armiger helverins

[vital barn]

Paladins were kind of GK's whole deal, the army itself looks a bit folorn at my admittedly inexpert glance

[soft willow]

Let me quickly see if I can make a version of my IA list that fits in a discord post.

[rocky shale]

Funny enough the actual Inquistorial Agents unit is pretty bad

Prior to the codex they were 2W models and hilarious as a tarpit

[desert jay]

They look so rad tho

[rocky shale]

Back when we also had funny monkey and daemonhosts

[junior summit]

to clarify "don't play agents":

knights are not doing well

nobody played agents

[soft willow]

I actually disagree, but they're very glass cannon now.

[desert jay]

It's weird to see knights so low

[rocky shale]

I'd say theyre kinda mid tier for the army but they can dump heavy weapons out of a chimera which is fun

And theyre cheap

[junior summit]

it doesn't surprise me, knights are skew lists and they keep getting nerfed

[desert jay]

Because I remember A) them dominating in early 10e, and B) Chaos Knights complaining that the Imperial Knight codex was so much better

[junior summit]

against "I actually took antitank" they die pretty quick

[rocky shale]

Codex got super nerfed immediately

[vital barn]

It's odd to see mech doing that well because I just think "yes, yes, raise our points more, I want to have a real army again"

[sour sequoia]

We just came out of Death Guard +Knights summer

[desert jay]

GSC and TSons tho, seemingly winners all edition

[rocky shale]

They had a ton of strats that worked on multiple knights per usage and that was insane

CK perfectly balanced tho

[desert jay]

Oh right the codex was designed around that and then that got kicked out from under them

[rocky shale]

108 gatling cannon shots per turn as GW intended

[sour sequoia]

Because it was disgusting

[floral herald]

playing baseball fr fr

[sour sequoia]

“My name 1200pts of advance-shoot-charge big knights for 1cp”

[rocky shale]

(Im ragebaiting gyr by mentioning the despoiler gatling cannon)

[desert jay]

That's on 3 despoilers, right? Right?

[sour sequoia]

You can no longer ragebait me with the cannon I have testimonials from chaos knights players that they’d rather eat a brick than play me ever again

[rocky shale]

36 shots per despoiler yeah

[rocky shale]

Oh yeah now that triple abom is gone, GSC seems like a horrible matchup

[sour sequoia]

I give em a kudos on their sick paintjobs on all their display models and then I walk them through how they’re never gonna score primary

We shake hands and its the only time I ever get a lunch break

[rocky shale]

Triple abom for <1000 points when the auras stacked was goofy tho

[desert jay]

I know how to fix it. Detachment that gives armigers infiltrate

[rocky shale]

Why yes you will take 3d3 mortals on every unit at the end of movement phase

[soft willow]

Comp agents list: https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/list/AQ4dv

[rocky shale]

Ok I can see what youre doing with the agents here

Max jail units

Blot out the sun with bodies

[sour sequoia]

TSons had some real bad patches after initial index season and after codex nerf, GSC has been cruising off how weird it is and having maybe the deepest detachment roster in the game

You have to like, learn GSC as ever and its mostly been “lmao Innes/Floof/Tucker Rickey/had a day off, 450 dead 1200 injured”

WR on most GSC players is Really Bad given a 3-3 put me top 100

[soft willow]

Yeah it's one of those play it well and it sings, but if you don't you get rolled armies.

[sour sequoia]

Necrons have been 52% until like, last week on the strength of two detachments and 80% the same build for 4 years

Literally this month is first time they dropped below 50% ever

[desert jay]

Ready for the return of Oops All Ctan lists?

[thin ibex]

Tau have like vaguely lived in the lower 3rd for most of its life despite having a really well internally balanced dex

Our stronger detach is all kroot

[wide veldt]

Did

They

Add an apostrophe

To tau

[junior summit]

yes

[wide veldt]

When they did all the renaming

[junior summit]

yup

[wide veldt]

Heavy…. Heavy sigh

That’s all I’ve got

Is that that’s really dumb

[rocky shale]

D'umb

[wide veldt]

Kills you

[raven meteor]

Tuh Ow

K'root
R'ailgun

[desert jay]

Also Eldar -> Aeldari

Just add a few vowels

[junior summit]

mon keigh

[raven meteor]

I honestly assumed Aeldari and Eldar was the usual 'oh they're PROPERLY called the Adeptus Astartes thank you'

'space marines is nasty low gothic'

[desert jay]

Oh the PROPER name of Craftworld Aeldari is actually "Asuryani"

[bright dove]

Drukhari

[desert jay]

("Aeldari" also refers to deldar and exodites)

[charred bridge]

Big tins

[charred bridge]

I always though this was pronounced like mon-kai but it threw me for a loop when in Rogue Trader Yrliet says it like monkey.

It seems obivious looking back

[pale narwhal]

good internal balance between units (mostly)

weapon choices have been weird for awhile. Burst cannons are almost never worth taking- if you can swap out your basic bursts you usually do- flamerscythes being far more efficient than burstscythes for example, the riptide's heavy burst cannon being worse in every way than the ion accelerator even pre-buff, Plasma rifles having the same shots as fusion and only slightly longer range...

(plasma rifles not having rapid fire is something that completely threw me for a loop coming from 7e/8e, it just feels weird for them only to have one shot)

[sour sequoia]

Eat your heart out cato sicarius I think this’ll be a good part swap lmao

[thin ibex]

Yeah, though burst scythes have some decent specific match up/ detachment synergies that has them compete with flamers. Hbc my beloved, you have no redeeming qualities beyond lookin sick. Plasma is decent because of what they come on (fireknives) and the fixed damage, making them far more efficient at tough elite infantry killing than the fusions, which can roll 1's. Still usually better to bring missileknives, but there IS a niche

I still run hbc, despite everything

I maintain that the ion gun looks silly and too large on the riptide frame

[pale narwhal]

I specifically like to terrify my custodes buddy with plasmas. Outside of that missileknives just feel better? maybe against victrix plasma is a better shout now

[thin ibex]

They're the usual terminator killer, so also good against terminator-likes

I found my montka burst scythes were actually able to do work in a couple recent games

Do still wish burst canons had rapid fire

[pale narwhal]

or most weapons had any special rules

kauyon and montka really messed up the like. overall design of the codex imo. On most battlesuit and infantry weapons the max we get is like. rapid fire on pulse rifles and melta on fusions whereas other factions have lethals and sustained and rapid fire sprinkled everywhere that makes sense

[mental birch]

Give plasma rapid fire

Now they scary

Ahhahah

Make us get greedier with our deepstrikes dammit

[thin ibex]

I suspect they were trying to avoid 8ths and 9ths tau focus on hyper investment into the crisis drop while spending 5cp to drop zone clear, auto spot, and whatever else, for one nuclear round of shooting with fifty billion CIBs

[thin ibex]

whats khorne's sacred number again, 8?

[jaunty dawn]

Indeed

[thin ibex]

i was thinking about how, in the lore, 1st war for armagadden's ultimate battle was Angron and like 8 blood thirsters vs 100 GK termies

all i could think is that 100 termies would mollywop those guys on volume of attacks

i guess maybe there were other, lesser daemons there too

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/First_War_for_Armageddon#Chaos There were a LOT of daemons

[thin ibex]

the turns in that war must have taken forever

[pastel rampart]

Clearly they're using Epic: Armageddon rules for this one.

[thin ibex]

grandmaster just like, pausing the fight to check the rules real quick

"ok yeah now you can hit me"

[thin ibex]

which chaos legion is the most saturday morning cartoon villain to you guys?

qustion borne of thinking its the Iron Warriors

they seem like premier "I'm going to ruin your fun, hero!" types

[floral herald]

It's gotta be the Black Legion right?

[thin ibex]

abby is a big contender yeah

'I'll get you next time loyalist scum!' spins off into the warp

[vital barn]

Yeah, the black legion deserve zero respect

I think in actual books it's probably the Word Bearers

They're the most fodder-y chaos marines

[thin ibex]

word bearers do have the penchant for overdone theatrics

[vital barn]

Iron Warriors and Word Bearers are the guys who show up all the time as generic villains, Black Legion really struggle to do anything cool outside of being Abby's guys

[floral herald]

Type of shit Abaddon gets up to finding

[thin ibex]

100%

[charred bridge]

I think it was sick then I saw the back had the AC hidden blade, bioncles, and beyblade launcher and that blew me away

Also I think the blade is funny cause it doesn't even extend past the infinity gauntlet

[broken dew]

I like that one of the bits is kryptonite

Radiation time

[floral herald]

I like the living facehugger

What is that even gonna do

[raven meteor]

It's very important for the omnitrix okay

[untold swallow]

That is

Magnificently stupid, but in like

the best way

[desert jay]

Why is there a facehugger there? It’s basically just a critter

[untold swallow]

Because Geek Shit

[charred bridge]

It's just hanging out

[broken dew]

true

that really is doing nothing at all

[paper bluff]

That guy could have gone hard as a prop maker for big bang theory unfortunately

[junior summit]

emergency ranged weapon

[runic swallow]

Vibes or as a statement piece

Just showing off you got one as a pet for psychological warfare

[wide veldt]

yknow actuall for as much as i talked shit

on the tau detatchments that only work on 3/6 rounds

montka, the one that gives you assualt for the first 3 rounds

is p sexy

[thin ibex]

its popular, good, pretty easy to use, decent strats, decent enhancements

kauyon is actually good too, but it forces you to play cognizant that you come online later in the game

[past sphinx]

pyschological warfare

[rocky shale]

The game is usually decided in the first 3 rounds

[soft willow]

These aren't Warhammer models so technically wrong thread. 😂

[wide veldt]

idk the resolution is so low it could be

okay also

i dont understand what this means

i thought that the entire point of being an observer is that you cant attack

like you only mark someone as observer if they dont attack

[past sphinx]

MERELY ANOTHER LAYER OF PYSCHOLOGICAL WARFARE

[desert jay]

The wording is fucked up but no, it's just that every unit is either an observer or guided, but not both

Observers have to do it before they shoot but they can still shoot after

And then this stratagem gives the same bonuses as you get from being guided, though only when attacking the target that specific observer spotted

[charred bridge]

They're alpha legion units

[wide veldt]

Ohhhh

Yeah that’s

[charred bridge]

You fell for the old disguise in the book

[wide veldt]

That’s not clear

At all

Which again, pointing to the overcomplicated wording of rules

[desert jay]

Yeah there's two common wrong interpretations out there, you got caught in one of them

[wide veldt]

What’s the other one?

[thin ibex]

In practice, it's like saying the observer is also benefiting from spotting

[desert jay]

The other one was pre-codex, they went and made it explicitly clear in the codex that you can't be an observer for X and then later be guided by Y, but in the index version it had to be FAQ'd

[rocky shale]

Something checking for eligibility to shoot doesn't necessarily mean it prevents shooting after

[wide veldt]

Yeah sorry it’s the “but hasn’t fired yet” part

That confused me

[jaunty dawn]

Eligible to shoot nonsense is because they decided having clear rules for actions was overcomplicated so instead they just reimplement it slightly differently in a bunch of different places without a rules infrastructure to do it with

[wide veldt]

yaaay

maybe 11 will fix.....

[raven meteor]

Continuing my first game of 40k today, we're currently taking a break
My sisters are prevailing but the genestealers are doing objective play well, which aiui is their thing so
I still think we'll pull through though
I was amused to find that hybrid metamorphs with iconward are basically the same as Sacresant with Hospitaler

[raven meteor]

I wonnnnnn 😌
I managed a few key movements that popped some very important cult ambush markers and the other player conceded

The game-winning play was using a 6 miracle dice to barely Advance my Paragon Warsuits onto the new cult ambush marker they made with an Iconward's Summon The Cult

Which felt sooooo good

[thin ibex]

https://youtube.com/shorts/HM3ayWZPZCA?si=zv7rAMeNa67BSEwP

[past sphinx]

RIP the khan himself

dude made some of the better euro adject action films ive watched and is the only like ness of khan i can summon

[charred bridge]

Hey now nothing has stated he died

Has it

Did they kill him with the new drops

[floral herald]

genestealer cults got his ass

[past sphinx]

No the actor passed away from cancer

i should have been more clear

[wide veldt]

Oh so here’s a question

Warhammer YouTubers: are Poorhammer and PancreasNoWork good?

I’ve been watching their stuff and liking it but like

Idk I’m always wary of big community YouTubers

[past sphinx]

their both fine

unless your some sort of elf lover

[floral herald]

I am very picky about Warhammer YouTubers and I like em

[broken dew]

i do like PancreasNoWork a lot, very funny

[wide veldt]

Well Cyan approves good enough for me

Unfortunately before this latest round of interest from me in Warhammer the only influencer I knew of who wasn’t specifically for total war was Arch because of that whole thing

Only time I’ve ever heard of like

A giant company

Saying “stop being a fan of us”

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/1458964217276141662/20260108_182135.jpg?ex=69618dcf&is=69603c4f&hm=6a570ce2dd1a7b7bb25d36682c2056cfa9eea3282698ba5ad8da681770f8beb8&

oh no this is gonna be a BIG print

[wide veldt]

What is that for

Good lord

[pastel rampart]

This thing.

[wide veldt]

Oh the AOS giants?

[pastel rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-dexter-morgan-idk-gif-2440520923239485215

[wide veldt]

YOU POSTED IT

[pastel rampart]

I KNOW

[wide veldt]

IM BITING YOU

https://tenor.com/view/nerpa-silly-nerpa-nerpa-bite-silly-seal-seal-bite-gif-16534140977079664782

[pastel rampart]

This is partly a test to see how well this guy's stuff prints on FDM, and thankfully he has FDM-friendly versions and it's printing out real smooth.

But uuuuuuuh I didn't know it'd be THIS BIG

[past sphinx]

buys giant

slices giant

prints giant

mfw the giant is big

always was interested in the sigmar giants

[pastel rampart]

It's a bit difficult to gauge the overall size of the model through Cura.

[wide veldt]

Okay alright

After getting back into Warhammer and softening on space marines

[charred bridge]

I didn't use Curs but doesn't it let you control the scale of a model during slicing?

[wide veldt]

Top 3 chapters
Space Wolves
Salamanders
Either Grey Knights or Death Guard

[charred bridge]

I just kept mines at a certain view distance with prusaslicer

[wide veldt]

Rate my taste in Marines

Legion of the Damned for not real chapters also

[floral herald]

Seems ok

[pastel rampart]

It does, but either I just flat-out miss where it is or don't know how to show how tall in inches or centimeters a print will be. A lot of times I kinda have to guess.

[bright dove]

Two out of four are definitely stinky.

[pastel rampart]

I am also somewhat bad at measurement, which is why I play wargames.

[wide veldt]

Space Woof and Def Guard?

[bright dove]

Yes.

[wide veldt]

I do gotta say I kinda love the base CSM army

I haven’t read into like

How playing as specific chapters of marines/CSM…. works?

[bright dove]

Largely vibes and paint schemes unless they have a codex.

[broken dew]

my favourites are like, Lamenters and Marines Malevolent

[bright dove]

Iron Warriors! 😄

[raven meteor]

It's weird
CSM legions are seperate armies entirely, space marine chapters are essentially a second detachment (but they give units instead of an army rule)

[wide veldt]

… huh

I feel like they… should work the same

[raven meteor]

On one hand
yea,
On the other

I hate dark pacts okay

At least it's not watever te fuck Eldar are doin

[floral herald]

There are also a bunch of legions which are just detachments

The cult legions just get their own books for whatever reason

I think Dark Pacts are neat

[raven meteor]

Yea stuff like te Night Lords are detachments
.....Which ALSO isn't how space marines do it but,

[past sphinx]

dark pacts can eat my entire ass

[wide veldt]

What is dark pacts

[raven meteor]

The generic Chaos Space Marine faction rule

Gamble on mortal wounds for mild buffs

It's not the worst faction rule out there but not my vibe

[wide veldt]

Man D3 wounds for sustained hits ONE

like that should at least be SH2

[floral herald]

No it’s super good lol

[raven meteor]

To be fair
That could be sustained hits 1 on a giant fuckoff cannon that shoots one shot

[wide veldt]

True actually

Yeah I didn’t think about that

[floral herald]

It’s army wide so it works on everything and CSM have good LD and retools

So it’s fairly safe