I feel like it's fairly important for Eldar
#Warhammer and Such
viral crest
sweet solar
the symbol used to reveal eldar would be in the game was literally a wave serpent wasnt it?
or falcon
jaunty dawn
Land raiders are also transports
sweet solar
both transports
main pagoda
I'm just thinking at the scale of a tw battle will it be needed if you know what I mean
sweet solar
oh, yeah, itl just be unit based like epic / legions imperialis etc
so a unit of transports picks up a group of units of hte same type
main pagoda
We've seen the scale it's just normal tw
sweet solar
hotkeys for "pick upp all units of this type" and "pick up all units in this area" along with a micromanage option
normal tw scale is already closer to epic and imperialis than 40k tbh
the scale shown had multiple groups of squads
not individual squads, once it zoomed out
some of those formations were BIG
but it was interesting that it started small and zoomed in
likely to try to do both
which will be fun to ballance lmao
gonna be some GOOD spacemarine last stands,t hey love that, its like enrichment to them
main pagoda
Call ins
floral herald
It’s pretty similar to Epic from what we’ve seen but like, the lower end of Epic people played
main pagoda
From the sounds of it
floral herald
Though transports were very important in Epic since dismounts were SLOW
sweet solar
probably not in the game from what is shown now BUT there are orbital bombardments shown, so call in airstrikes are possible
main pagoda
Maybe valks
stark cypress
Ya know what would be funny?
past sphinx
oh hey knights errant what the fuck are you doing here
sweet solar
lmao
stark cypress
Ya know what would be funny?
If next year GW announces a video game version of Kill Team.
sweet solar
probably being someones baby and showing of quartered/halfed colours chemes
like good old howling gryphons
loved their paint scheme since hte old white dwarf back cover they got
lmao I hope the army painter is detailed enough to make maryland marines
main pagoda
Ideally it's just dow army painter
sweet solar
its already more detailed than dow just from that rendition of knights errant with the multiple segmentations
main pagoda
So we've seen calgar wonder what else we're getting in terms of LLs
runic swallow
…isn’t that a state flag?
past sphinx
best damn one
runic swallow
Like, the one wild US state flag
stark cypress
Since imperial agents got brought up
main pagoda
how many different lieutenants
One with different armour options god willing
Or 15 no in-between
stark cypress
Since imperial agents got brought up
You think they would use the Stormtrooper designs or the Scion designs?
Because the Stormtrooper mini/art was so fucking cool.
sweet solar
…isn’t that a state flag?
yup
always thought it woukd be a rad marine colour scheme
alsonhey werent just transports directly in tw:w already?
the siege towers
runic swallow
Is it Maryland? Or am I wrong on that
main pagoda
the siege towers
I mean kinda sorta they've only ever done one transport unit that wasn't just a siege engine or boat which were a chariot unit in pharaoh
They've never done two fully independent units in the sense of you can embark a unit within another unit and move them around
floral herald
If next year GW announces a video game version of Kill Team.
I’m here for that
main pagoda
They did that necromunda game so they have a track record of making virtual skirmish games
stark cypress
I’m here for that
Yeah
It would be so cool if they do it and they make separate narrative campaigns.
tranquil ivy
i was second guessing the concept of my Dusk Wyrms being renegades but then i remembered the Relictors and the Carcharodons exist
upper bluff
I'm happy that craftworlds look like they might be a release faction
pale narwhal
They did that necromunda game so they have a track record of making virtual skir...
also the mordheim game (which is actually pretty fun)
upper canopy
I'm happy that craftworlds look like they might be a release faction
They are
It's Marines, Guard, Orks, and Eldar
wintry mist
What are we thinking on tw40k
I am... very unhappy with what was shown
It kinda looked like a mobile game and knowing it's on console doesn't give me great confidence
Though you could play maybe the more recent entries of TW on console
So that might not be a huge issue
desert jay
I'm mostly thinking the 1000 marine limit would be very funny
upper canopy
I think making me watch more Primaris Ultramarines Marine Boltily Around is an insult
viral crest
What are we thinking on tw40k
I'm still thinking that it's just... not a good fit
floral herald
I'm mostly thinking the 1000 marine limit would be very funny
This would be incredible actually
viral crest
Fundamentally just not... the kind of game that Total War is
pale narwhal
it really isn't a good fit for what total war is known for (which is rank-and-flank warfare, notably their napoleonic and gunpowder-tech entries have been the weakest of the series)
upper canopy
The fact there's an army painter does make me think it will defacto be the best 40k game ever made tbh
wintry mist
Is dow4 not gonna have an army painter?
upper canopy
It does but it's just a painter
floral herald
it really isn't a good fit for what total war is known for (which is rank-and-fl...
TW Napoleon is actually my favorite even if the 2 line rule is Dumb
upper canopy
This is literally "make your own faction"
wintry mist
It is?
upper canopy
Yes
wintry mist
Oh
main pagoda
I am... very unhappy with what was shown
It's pre alpha it's going to look bad
wintry mist
Maybe it is peak
upper canopy
The steam page is out
sweet solar
but tow:w works for mobile gunline + monsters so i think they can make it work
upper canopy
you can go read what it has
viral crest
And people keep bringing up Epic and that's cool and all but I've never actually heard anybody say if Epic is actually good
floral herald
This is literally "make your own faction"
Yeah it seems very YourDudes oriented which is nice
viral crest
Just that they tried to do it and then stopped
sweet solar
And people keep bringing up Epic and that's cool and all but I've never actually...
nothing is good
main pagoda
And people keep bringing up Epic and that's cool and all but I've never actually...
It's aight
sweet solar
epic is fun
tired cairn
What is the 30k Epic? Is that good?
main pagoda
Yes
sweet solar
so is legions imperialis
main pagoda
Legions imperialais
floral herald
And people keep bringing up Epic and that's cool and all but I've never actually...
Epic is good when graded by age
It’s kind of dated now
sweet solar
it wont be like epic is old and gnarlyyeah
main pagoda
also the mordheim game (which is actually pretty fun)
Notably an actual good game forgot about it
sweet solar
itl be new
floral herald
Epic has really interesting stuff for maneuver warfare with big maps and the activation system is good
pale narwhal
Notably an actual good game forgot about it
it's really fun. Tough learning curve but lots of fun once you get into it
floral herald
It is also from like 2002 and the points values are all fucked up so balance is… not super good
main pagoda
Yeah hive wars just sucked
viral crest
But also Epic isn't Total War, which would need like, an entire new engine and design and at that point is it even a Total War game anymore?
sweet solar
total war is a name
tired cairn
It's a new engine right?
upper canopy
Yea
viral crest
And I'm concerned about if they can make Warhammer 40k work with the style of game that it is.
tired cairn
I don't think it is so narrow of a style of game that changing from a rank and flank style RTS-part to something more fitting to 40k is out of its wheelhouse
upper canopy
I mean the style of game is exactly what 40k has always wanted and never got
floral herald
But also Epic isn't Total War, which would need like, an entire new engine and d...
I am not sure they are fundamentally that different tbh
upper canopy
40k is about moving big blobs of dudes around
Total War is about moving big blobs of dudes around
I'm sure it'll function
main pagoda
both 40k and total war
But this isn't this is just tw
Like it's a total war game it has a grand strategy and a rts element that is the tw formula
Scale is graphics dependant anyway
Always has been
sweet solar
i hope we get a "battle at the farm" reference bsttle or map
viral crest
I hope it's good
I'm worried it won't be
main pagoda
Have hope
viral crest
Is I guess what I'm trying to say, ultimately
vital barn
I am entirely down for this, I think the only ones who don't quite work are Space Marines and honestly TWWH has been able to handle elite squads pretty well
main pagoda
TW game's can be iffy in quality but they are always at least decent
sweet solar
and even if its not good there sthe new old style dawn of war
vital barn
it might be a bit jank but honestly I just want to roll out the all russ army or blip around with warp spiders and the existing stuff is probably fine fundamentals for that
wintry mist
Yeah ultimately
If tw40k doesn't pan out
We have dow4
Which does look very promising
main pagoda
Do wonder how they will do teleportation
wintry mist
I am entirely down for this, I think the only ones who don't quite work are Spac...
Does any twwh faction have only elite squads?
main pagoda
No
wintry mist
My problem is that they will look extremely visually bland
main pagoda
Ogre's come closest but you have gnoblars
vital barn
eh, you can paint 'em bright and vibrant and give them big glowy weapons, they'll do at least as well as the Aspiring Champions or whatever
pale narwhal
Does any twwh faction have *only* elite squads?
not only, though ogres have primarily 'monstrous infantry' which are fairly elite (16-24 entities at max unit scale) but yeah gnoblars
vital barn
I can't guarantee they won't be wonky as hell but I'm at least willing to give it a try
main pagoda
I already know teleportation will be jank
wintry mist
Total war games have been getting less and less complex every release
Which is pretty sad
So like, idk how this is gonna go
I know 40k isn't exactly known for tactical fidelity but like, I just dunno how actually fun this will be
TW has kinda just been left clicking your dudes and right clicking the opponents dudes since twwh and waiting
The historical TWs I have the most experience with are rome and napoleon
And those rustled the ol noggin and while I want tw40k to do the same I know it wont
main pagoda
They have had to dumb it down with the more fantastical stuff
wintry mist
I dont think so they coulda atleast had some formations
Gimme squares for imperial spearmen/halberdiers or smthn
Have terrain actually relevant except for sightlines
main pagoda
Well that's just tww and terrian still matters
TWW is the exception when it comes to formations sadly but it's kinda a reflection of the table top to an extent
wintry mist
Thrones didn't have them
main pagoda
As in Britannia?
upper canopy
I think part of it is like
main pagoda
It did? shield walls were like the thing in TOB
wintry mist
Old formations just changed how units collided and interacted
The newer ones are just stat changes
Like putting my infantry in a square formation in napoleon doesn't give them +20% cavalry damage or whatever
It just does what a square formation does irl
main pagoda
They still do that it just tells you the stat bonus at the same time
thin ibex
I feel like three kingdoms was reasonably complex
Also the older total wars didn't have nearly the wealth of unit variety that warhammer total war has
main pagoda
When they start doing the wacky wild stuff it makes sense for it to be simplified just for ease of game making and playing
upper canopy
Warhammer does require a ton of micro
main pagoda
I'm just referring to the formation aspect because that's like the big change on how units can interact imho
I think tww made micro a far bigger part
wintry mist
I think one of the things with unit variety is like
Shogun 2 is widely considered the best total war game by oldheads
And by oldheads I really do mean anyone who fucks with tw before warhammer
And it has basically none
I have however
Not played it
I need to though
I do really like warhammer though
I just want more from it
And I know tw can give more and has given more
I hope that the whole build your own faction roster thing it means they can focus on the core rather than making 10 bazillion units
main pagoda
But like outside of formations and actual sieges not much has really changed is the point
wintry mist
I definitely feel differences betwen how tww and rome play and I dont think it's just age
main pagoda
Like fundamentally tw battle's are the same but they now have more moving part's just native to a fantasy world
upper canopy
Not played it
I grew up on it
Its really good and is basically just rock paper scissors forever
vital barn
Shogun 2 and Empire were my picks
Empire is basically Napoleon with a worldwide map, it ruled
main pagoda
Do think it needs to be studied how they just forgot how to do sieges
vital barn
I don't think I've ever been particularly impressed by Total War sieges but Rome and so forth did feel rather better than stuff like Warhammer
Warhammer sieges barely feel like sieges unless you're playing something like Skaven and can sit back filling the entire sky with artillery
which would be fun if the enemy could do anything about it other than feed you unit after unit
vital barn
I'm in two minds about Shogun 2 sieges but they certainly weren't bad once you started putting up multi-tiered forts you could actually use
never played Atilla but Rome 1 wasn't awful
wintry mist
I think tw40k is so different from the previous games that it's a bit of a wait and see
main pagoda
Base game wasn't a fan but I tried the strongholds of the samurai mod and it was brilliant
runic swallow
I’d be interested in seeing them do another gunpowder line warfare game, but I recall people saying TW Napoleon was like, absolutely brain dead ai
vital barn
honestly if Total War 40k ever lets me make an army of Ruststalkers I'm buying it, I don't care how bad it is
vital barn
I would expect to see Admech at some point, they actually do suit rank and flank to some degree
and yeah, they were dumb but not unfathomably dumb
Empire is by far my favourite gunpowder TW though
has a lot more going on
wintry mist
I think my problem with rank and flank is that like dude I have a machinegun how are all the guardsmen not dead yet
Every shot a space marine makes should be 1 dead guardsman
main pagoda
Yeah it's just there's going to be more guardsmen than bolter shells
wintry mist
Reloading mechanic
wintry mist
Yeah it's just there's going to be more guardsmen than bolter shells
I could accept this
upper canopy
Well theres clearly cover
vital barn
admittedly I'm not sure a space marine is going to be able to pull off that kind of memetic accuracy while being shot by 200 lasguns at once
upper canopy
So i imagine it will be about cover
vital barn
I think a quote to that effect is even in the old Black Crusade book
thin ibex
It didn't look like it was just going to be the exact same thing yo, we got some glimpses of gameplay
upper canopy
admittedly I'm not sure a space marine is going to be able to pull off that kind...
But the lasguns are flashlights misc they dont dooooooo nuffin
Never once
vital barn
actually now I think about it guard get 1 heavy weapons team per squad, which means a TW unit of 200 guardsmen has... 20 heavy bolters/plasma cannon/lascannon if properly equipped according to tabletop
yeah that'll keep a space marine's head down
wintry mist
I think my problem with the "mass lasgun fire can kill a space marine" thing is like
If one cant, why can 100?
vital barn
one can, it just needs to get lucky
upper canopy
Because they got thin helmets and joints
vital barn
and 100 guys unloading full auto is a lot of luck
upper canopy
How did archers kill knights
wintry mist
Longbows were just built like that
vital barn
(maybe not full auto depending on how recoily your lasgun is today)
archers did not kill knights, normally
wintry mist
For a long time they didn't
vital barn
but a lasgun is meaner against power armour than a bow is against plate
main pagoda
But again weight of fire is a hell of a drug
vital barn
also they do have special and heavy weapons and plasma will put a space marine down just fine
wintry mist
admittedly I'm not sure a space marine is going to be able to pull off that kind...
Tbf you dont need to be accurate in a target rich environment like an ork/guardsman charge
main pagoda
Dunno how they will make mixed weapons work but I'm hoping they will implement it
Or they'll just do lasguns and special weapons are a different squad
wintry mist
Even if he might not be choosing who he is shooting a space marine has enough cool under fire to shoot in such a way that he is going to hit one of them
vital barn
Tbf you dont need to be accurate in a target rich environment like an ork/guards...
orks maybe not, but even human human wave attacks don't form a literal wall of meat
upper canopy
The main thing about this rn is not getting mad at anything that isnt real
wintry mist
Ywah
upper canopy
I will however be mad at the trailer
wintry mist
I'm just being very cynical because holy fuuuuck I would kill to see this game be good
upper canopy
Its bad
vital barn
it's like 7/10 as bolter porn goes, solid animation
wintry mist
Yeah it's good bolter porn
vital barn
I like the plasma and power weapon depictions
wintry mist
Nods to astartes
upper canopy
I see marines just dunking on an enemy faction for more than a single shot and I steal another year off James Workshops life
wintry mist
Orks are an easy faction to dunk on if you are space marines tbf
upper canopy
I see Ultramarines doing it i take two
main pagoda
Feel your in the wrong genre in that case the poster boy's of the franchise will be center stage
thin ibex
To be clear, longbows didn't just punch through plate armor. In an analogous way, space marines are nigh invulnerable on the battlefields of the 41st millennium
wintry mist
Yeah the giant grand battle trailer is going to show the poster boys doing poster boy shit
upper canopy
Feel your in the wrong genre in that case the poster boy's of the franchise will...
I am old enough to remember when Ultramarines being the poster boys was such a reviled meme that they didnt do it for a long while
I am tired of them being the poster boys
And I want them to stop
vital barn
SM2 made me dislike the Ultramarines more
wintry mist
Lol
vital barn
Know No Fear made me like them
thin ibex
What was the journey of poster boys? Started um didn't it? Then there were the crimson fists, I vaguely remember blood angels, and weren't DA once too?
main pagoda
I am old enough to remember when Ultramarines being the poster boys was such a r...
People still being hung up on matt ward is comical
upper canopy
Matt Ward deserves written apologies
main pagoda
It was decade's ago
thin ibex
Look people still think Tau are OP from data like a decade old
vital barn
What was the journey of poster boys? Started um didn't it? Then there were the c...
Horus Heresy is interesting because in 1e it didn't have any and then 2e it locked hard into Imperial Fists and Dark Angels
so much imperial fists glazing
I'm surprised their official paint scheme isn't gloss
pale narwhal
What was the journey of poster boys? Started um didn't it? Then there were the c...
DA were the launch box in 6e/7e (Dark Vengeance) along with chaos
wintry mist
The ttrpg hobby crawls slowly
vital barn
some Sons of Horus but mostly just as generic bad guy rather than badasses
upper canopy
Matt Ward did a fraction of the bullshit GW does with ultramarines now
thin ibex
I remember having the crimson fists big jigsaw puzzle as a kid
tired cairn
It is funny to me they did not say "In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium" and instead say "of the far future". Also the planetary map at the end is peak 40k nonsense map
wintry mist
Lancer is the new, shiny ttrpg to me and it's been around for almost a decade
Whoopsies
main pagoda
Lancer is older than that
upper canopy
Lmao
main pagoda
Okay had me worried
wintry mist
Im so tired from watching tga
vital barn
look, Nebulous Fleet Command came out like a month ago, right, I haven't been a regular community member for it for four years
that would be horrifying
thin ibex
As a tau main, we still get flack for strategies we can't even use now, like fish of fury or triptide with 30 shield drones
junior summit
TWW is the exception when it comes to formations sadly but it's kinda a reflecti...
dwarfs get formations btw
vital barn
fuck riptides (x32)
main pagoda
7e burned alot of people
junior summit
or close-enough-to formations because ironbreakers can tank fucking cannons in shieldwall
vital barn
the rest of Tau are cool but still, seriously fuck Riptides
main pagoda
dwarfs get formations btw
In what
junior summit
TW:WH
main pagoda
They are just a blob
main pagoda
Same as everyone
junior summit
ironbreakers get super shieldwall
main pagoda
It's just a stat thing
vital barn
Stormsurges were on thin ice for a while because they were also nuts in 7th but honestly they've been so depressing for so long it's redeemed them
I think they got a points cut in the last dataslate?
main pagoda
As opposed to actually you know making a shield wall
junior summit
they're already a shieldwall by default
dwarf units march around in tight squares, the only issue is that they don't hold formation on contact and that's a game engine limitation
vital barn
oh yeah for reference on the level of Imperial Fists glazing in HH 2e, Siggy could solo like the lower third of the primarchs easy
wintry mist
Fuck yes
junior summit
also iirc formation attack is like....actively harmful which should probably be fixed
wintry mist
Imperial fists my goat
main pagoda
When talking about a tw shield wall I mean the toggle formations
vital barn
and Stone Gauntlet was like.... nearly as broken as just taking a bunch of dreads
pale narwhal
I *think* they got a points cut in the last dataslate?
they got a pretty significant points cut, yeah
vital barn
HH2e dreads were so busted that they were getting near-globally houseruled in month 1
main pagoda
Like the bret wedge
vital barn
so glad the game is actually playable now
junior summit
bret wedge gets stat boost doesn't it?
wintry mist
Bret wedge gets stat boost yeah
main pagoda
Yeah and they actually go into the formation
wintry mist
But it is atleast a formation
vital barn
my ideal HH edition is this a patchwork of 3e core, 1e toys and a few QOL and jank improvements from 40k 10th
but 3e is at least playable out the box
which 2e was not
junior summit
I guess I'm more fine with TW;W formations because really the only one you're missing out of the historical toolbox is square
vital barn
(absolutely no reason for deployment in 3e to not work like it does in 10th 40k, that at least is just doing it wrong as a joke)
main pagoda
Well you're missing more than that
junior summit
like most infantry units are wandering around as line or column and while there's no real reason to do column which is something I'd like to see fixed line works just fine
tired cairn
(absolutely no reason for deployment in 3e to not work like it does in 10th 40k,...
How does it work in 3E 30k?
floral herald
Look people still think Tau are OP from data like a decade old
People remembering every busted tau strat forever is increasingly weird
main pagoda
Shield wall, spear wall, loose to name the big three imho
vital barn
hey I also hate wraithknights and dev centurions from 7e
wintry mist
The thing with the bret wedge is that the wedge isn't actually the important part
floral herald
It’s been so long since fish of fury
junior summit
Shield wall, spear wall, loose to name the big three imho
I mean infantry by default just march around in the first two and loose is really only relevant for skirmish infantry and a lot of those guys are loose order anyway
runic swallow
Look people still think Tau are OP from data like a decade old
In my defense at least, it’s a trauma response firmly ingrained in teenage M4’s head by multiple rounds of getting ruthlessly murdered
wintry mist
The wedge is made kinda redundant when the charge ragdolls the first 4 lines of infantry 20 meters
junior summit
it's not an explicit formation but like, a line of spearmen is a spear wall
wintry mist
Due to the stat boost
junior summit
that's what spearmen are
vital barn
How does it work in 3E 30k?
winner of the rolloff deploys everything, including infiltrators/scouts, then the other guy does it, and infiltrators screen out other infiltrators so the winner just gets to put their infils in perfect blocking/scoring positions and the loser gets fucked
floral herald
In my defense at least, it’s a trauma response firmly ingrained in teenage M4’s ...
But there was so much other nonsense back then haha
Who remembers the rhino rush
main pagoda
But it's not really because they don't fight as a formation
vital barn
the 50% chance of losing the coinflip generally keeps people honest in terms of running a zillion infil blockers but really it should just alternate after regular deployment
tired cairn
winner of the rolloff deploys everything, including infiltrators/scouts, then th...
oof. That's how it worked in 40k for awhile right?
desert jay
AIUI Fish of Fury was also like just like a slightly stronger version of doing the same things with Rhinos
floral herald
Or Lash/Warptime Princes
runic swallow
Hey I also recall the Eldar bullshit, that was traumatic too
main pagoda
Wraithknights
junior summit
But it's not really because they don't fight as a formation
yeah the formation disintegrating on contact is more of an issue imo but I don't think that's actually fixable in a meaningful way
vital barn
oof. That's how it worked in 40k for awhile right?
yeah, it's why if I was writing 30k 4e I'd bring in the bits of 10e that are just general good practice
like infiltrator deployment
runic swallow
I had it rough being a young guy in a community of 3-0-40 something tournament guys
I got crushed ruthlessly
junior summit
look at for example cathay formation attack, which does try to keep formation and it has to give infantry fat durability buffs to not be as much of an active detriment
wintry mist
Formations didn't disintegrate on contact in early total wars iirc but it's also been a hot goddamn minute
runic swallow
But it did make my rare wins very satisfying
main pagoda
They didn't
desert jay
I had it rough being a young guy in a community of 3-0-40 something tournament g...
Initially read this a 3 wins 0 losses 40 ties and was deeply confused
floral herald
Formations didn't disintegrate on contact in early total wars iirc but it's also...
My recollection is that they were messy as fuck in them all the time
junior summit
the issue with formations is that infantry in total war don't mutually support in close combat which creates a whole bunch of issues with trying to make formations "work"
floral herald
Lots of blobs losing formation
vital barn
the one time I borrowed someone else's knight to run meta 7e Admech I played against Unending Host Renegades, killed 400+ models in one game and still got tabled on round 5
junior summit
yeah I remember medieval being pretty blobby
runic swallow
Initially read this a 3 wins 0 losses 40 ties and was deeply confused
Lmao sorry for the typo lol
junior summit
it's sort of the frontage vs depth thing that you already do with normal infantry layout
runic swallow
But god did I hate how Tau battle suits were monstrous creatures and not vehicles, made them unreasonably Killy for their difficulty in being killed
floral herald
When were suits ever MCs?
tired cairn
The split between monstrous creatures and vehicles was always pretty weird in 40k
floral herald
They were Big Infantry in their 4e and 6e books
main pagoda
They were mc in 7th
vital barn
7e MCs were spectacularly stronger than vehicles and so a lot of Tau suits and other similar things were MCs
Kastelans too
vital barn
MCs also got native AP2 on melee and Stomp on superheavies, so the Stormsurge had a chance of autowinning nearly any melee fight by rolling a 6 on stomp and removing every model under a small blast template
main pagoda
They were the best of times they were the worse of times
junior summit
I think my bit with TW:WH is that I wish the counter system was softer
runic swallow
It was very, very not fun how I could reasonably kill vehicles but oops no these guys are on legs and not treads and so are like 17x tougher
vital barn
no drip and no balance
junior summit
sure cav still lets you do silly things but other than that a lot of the game is makign sure counters connect and that's not really what I'm here for
vital barn
I'm warming to 10e despite my grognard complaints, although I still have them and appreciate HH3e for sustaining most of them
main pagoda
That's tw rock paper scissors for you
junior summit
I think I like gunline armies because it's largely not counters it's positioning and keeping your ranged units safe which feels much more "correct" to me
runic swallow
I'm warming to 10e despite my grognard complaints, although I still *have* them ...
It just seems too far from what I remember playing to get back in now, and they have removed some of my vehicles
vital barn
I am blessed by still having 75% of a legal Admech army
wintry mist
I think tw40k will work as a cover system
junior summit
like it's a little counters but it's not "my spearmen get +30% damage against cavalry" it's "my guns kill anything they shoot at, make sure they can shoot"
vital barn
and no Legendsed models besides 30k stuff that never got into 40k in the first place
wintry mist
The snippet of gameplay had units taking cover and shit
So it might work like how uhhh
runic swallow
Like, a lot of my stuff is still fine but all my heresy era stuff is poof gone
vital barn
I would like to run my 30k Alpha Legion in 40k but none of the vehicles work anymore
wintry mist
Coh2 and call to arms does but in a very big scale way where units will seek cover automatically near where you tell them to go
vital barn
and basic power armour boys + terminators are pretty useless
floral herald
It was very, very not fun how I could reasonably kill vehicles but oops no these...
Yeah I remember thinking it was very dumb how one of my Nob Leaders was a credible threat to a land raider in melee (4 S9 attacks on the charge in 4e) but literally could not kill a 125 pt carnifex with perfect rolls
runic swallow
That’s kinda where I’m at aside from like, some rhinos and a predator
main pagoda
I pick HE I have 18 units of lothern sea guard I turn off skirmish go make a tea and a win by the time I get back
wintry mist
Coh2 and call to arms does but in a very big scale way where units will seek cov...
This might even replace frontage/depth choices as a "how spread out do you want this unit to be" option instead
tired cairn
I guess they kind of turned vehicles into monstrous creatures huh
(Starting in 8th?)
floral herald
Basically yeah
junior summit
Monstrous creatures are faster to hit which is an advantage
vital barn
in essence, everything is an MC now
runic swallow
Also goddamn is new 40k stuff expensive, I’ll stick to trying to press gang people into maybe playing historical stuff with me
junior summit
Arguing which facing takes a hit got contentious
vital barn
walker/vehicle/monster are basically just tags for anti-X to work on
main pagoda
Arguing which facing takes a hit got contentious
Facing template
runic swallow
I guess they kind of turned vehicles into monstrous creatures huh
Yeah but also made stuff able to do more than one wound at a time, which evened stuff out
vital barn
HH3e has also adopted this but kept the old AV and facing system for vehicles
which I honestly quite like
thin ibex
People remembering every busted tau strat forever is increasingly weird
Right!?
vital barn
a Dread has 6 wounds, a Land Raider has AV 14 and 8 hull points
runic swallow
Yeah I liked that, even if yes it could cause arguments
vital barn
the raider is almost certainly going to be tankier
junior summit
Facing template
Isnt it still sorta vibes?
main pagoda
No
junior summit
Like its model dependent isnt it?
main pagoda
You put it on the centre and call it a day
tired cairn
You have vehicles bases and then you can have less contentious facing
thin ibex
Sometimes complexity isn't better, at least not for its own sake, but i can vibe with wanting more... what's the word? More of a reflection of the lore or how things feel like they should work
junior summit
Hold on isnt armor facing still the x method?
main pagoda
Yeah
junior summit
which is model dependent and also still sorta vibes
thin ibex
I think armor facing is in heresy isn't it?
junior summit
Yeah
main pagoda
which is model dependent and also still sorta vibes
From the centre of the model unless otherwise stated yes
vital barn
helps that this is 30k, where everyone is jacked as hell, and the Mechanicum deploying 27 Robocop 2s to sweep 60 space marines off the board doesn't feel lorebreaking at all
I am comfortable using 30k stats to draw rough comparisons between kinds of dude in a way I would not use 40k stats
junior summit
The increasingly cool terminators are very funny
vital barn
I do not think a Ruststalker is basically bettter than an Assault Marine no matter how much I like Sicarans
junior summit
Normal termies, kilotermies, megatermies, gigatermies
thin ibex
Curvier vehicles would be a bit tougher to get objective on facings no? Like the back of the falcon and devilfish are clear, but where the sides and and the front starts less so
vital barn
currently there are basically 3 levels of termie
thin ibex
With increasingly bigger shoulders
vital barn
WS4 chump termies (usually bad, a few unique varieties), WS5 elite termies (generic and many uniques) and WS5 Eternal Warrior mega termies (exclusively legion unique badasses, not every Legion has these)
junior summit
Curvier vehicles would be a bit tougher to get objective on facings no? Like the...
Anchor the center of rectangle on the centerline then extend the sides until it includes the vehicle
vital barn
even Custodes only reach mega-termie level on the Aquilons
generic 30k custodes die surprisingly easily
main pagoda
The actual shape doesn't really matter everything is treated as a box basically
vital barn
obviously there are many good and bad units on each of these tiers, I firmly believe that Lernaeans are the best terminator unit in 30k despite lacking Eternal Warrior
but they will still get fucking rinsed by Deathwing Knights
thin ibex
I would like vehicle gun arcs to return like in 30k, but I know in 40k that would be a reason to juice the guns since you'd have a harder time going all in, which then forces you to square and cost the other, non vehicle, units that also have those bigger weapons
vital barn
40k currently has this strange design between stuff that was originally a vehicle or is designed as a tank and as such gets like 5000 guns and stuff that is designed as a monster and gets like, 1
junior summit
i.e the mechanicum long transport has noticeably larger side arcs than most
vital barn
Nids have a real shortage of secondary weapons
thin ibex
Wider vehicles end up being better
Mentally imagining wide devilfish
vital barn
devilfish is already pretty chonky
to be fair the Triaros is silly
look how comically massive this train is
thin ibex
If yeah no my brain just did like a photoshop stretch as my mental image and I laughed
vital barn
thin ibex
Of the df
vital barn
HELLO I AM A BASIC TRANSPORT
vital barn
beep beep motherfucker
thin ibex
Is the size of a house
vital barn
my basic transport is 200 points and out-tanks a land raider from the front
unfortunately the side arc is merely mid
junior summit
I forget what the statline on the triarios is like but its like the M113 predecessor you could stuff an entire platoon into
vital barn
and also 500000 miles long
yeah, you can put any mechanicum unit in there except for like, 12 myrmidons and the monstrous creatures
and myrmidons are basically the size of Centurions
thin ibex
Put another one of itself in there
vital barn
you can even put a warformed-up archmagos in there and he's the size of a hive tyrant
30k techpriests did not skip leg day and as such your average archmagos is perfectly happy engaging in a fistfight with a Leviathan Dread as long as he can bring his trusty power fist
not entirely sure this works robomechanically but ruleswise and sizewise they're a fair match
similar points value too, except in the Magos' case more of the points are army support kit
junior summit
I forget what the statline on the triarios is like but its like the M113 predece...
Yeah its like this thing
3 man crew, 24 passengers
junior summit
not entirely sure this works robomechanically but ruleswise and sizewise they're...
The evil archmagos in Rogue Trader has a statline like a hellbrute so its comparable
vital barn
They are given to sticking themselves into giant combat fridges
charred bridge
I mean Cawl is like just short of a hive tyrant in hive
And he slouches
I do like the idea of tech priest end game is like, become a semi truck
vital barn
I think we've seen a few bigger ones but they tend to be a bit rarer than Cawl/Draykavac elite-dread scale warforms
junior summit
Also that one guy who can take vashtorr in the 1v1
And previously a number of primarchs
charred bridge
I remember seeing the art of cawl next to gulliman then realizing cawl is like taller than gulliman by a good few feet and I'm like holy how tall is this guy
vital barn
Scoria can still throw down with Primarchs, although he's not quite favoured against them he stands a chance against the WS7 ones
He beats everyone except Kabandha, Valdor and the large adult sons on average
easy clap against most greater demons
we have two other documented Archmagi on his level or above, the Witch of Thramas (threw around Inner Circle like dolls, fought a long duel against Lion, lost but escaped) and the Archimandrite (pulverised a bunch of custard creams after being chaos corrupted, although you could reasonably argue Drach'Nyen was boosting it)
charred bridge
Yeah its like this thing
Oh wow now that's something I could see fitting another tiny tank inside if it were slightly larger
vital barn
Oddly Scoria being particularly fighty never shows up in his writeups, he may merely be unusually decked out and old
he's the head of his forge world's secret police and a Cybernetica specialist before he coups it with warp-engram robits, but I know or no incident where he hits anyone on screen
I don't recall anyone fighting Vashtorr, he's a bit new, but I do think Scoria is cooler
junior summit
I don't recall anyone fighting Vashtorr, he's a bit new, but I do think Scoria i...
On the TT its iirc a favorable mu for scoria
pastel rampart
hollow laurelBOT
Something I'm worried about with TW40k is.. What's gonna happen with Guard customisation? Oops all Cadians, or do we actually get different armours? Or do they have regimentally duplicated units?
mild glen
Man, the more I think about it, the more I dislike the Total Warhammer 40k trailer.
paper bluff
"Total War: Warhammer 40,000 will have four factions to choose from at launch: Space Marines, Astra Militarum, Orks, and Aeldari"
No admech, no necrons, no knights, does space Marines include chaos aligned? No leagues
bright dove
At Launch doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
main pagoda
chaos will more than likely be pre order/release dlc
pine matrix
Having two imperial factions from the jump is kinda wack
floral herald
Im curious how they’ll be separate
still warren
They said no preorder dlc
misty violet
Having two imperial factions from the jump is kinda wack
I feel like Space Marines and Imperial Guard are really about as different as the Empire and the Dwarfs in Fantasy, up to and including relative height differences
I am curious about if they'll just have one very long lifecycle for 40K: TW or try to break it up into multiple main games like Fantasy
main pagoda
depends on how the stock does
wintry mist
No admech, no necrons, no knights, does space Marines include chaos aligned? No ...
yeah warhammer 1 had a similar number of factions
this isn't new
still warren
Wait, isn't this the same race line up as totalwarhamer 1?
misty violet
More or less, yeah
main pagoda
not really
wintry mist
total war warhammer 1 launch factions was my first popup
seems everyone is comparing them
the Empire (humans), the Greenskins (orcs and goblins), the Dwarfs and the Vampire Counts (undead).
main pagoda
chaos as well
misty violet
As Day 1 DLC, yeah
still warren
Oh elfs were in 2 not 1
wintry mist
nope
main pagoda
WE were in 1
wintry mist
well maybe a day 1 dlc
but those are the four base game factions
brettonians were a preorder dlc
chaos were a dlc
misty violet
I feel like if there's not a preorder faction there probably isn't a day one DLC faction
But that still leaves chaos as the likely first DLC
wintry mist
idk how they're gonna handle it
I hope instead of the line formation drag it's like in call to arms but on a massive scale
where you dictate the density of your unit and they automatically take cover
DLC races for 1 are Norsca (trolls and Vikings), beastmen, woodelves, beastmen, and chaos warriors.
floral herald
the Empire (humans), the Greenskins (orcs and goblins), the Dwarfs and the Vampi...
No launch chaos in TWW?
wintry mist
nope
floral herald
Damn, pull the lever Archaon
tired cairn
This would be a weird way to say day 1 DLC
Q: Where are the Chaos Space Marines?
A: Whilst they’re not in the game at launch, they’ll absolutely be part of our plans at some point, along with all the other iconic factions from the setting.
wintry mist
yeah def not day 1 dlc
cant wait for tau vehicles to be completely busted just due to ms
just as james workshop intended
misty violet
Eldar Vehicles too
The Fire Prism is going to be incredible
Though, everyone should also gird themselves for massive outcry as soon as the game launches about incomplete rosters
wintry mist
I am interested in their faction customization thing
I hope they do mixed unit formations
paper bluff
Will I get total war hammer 40k? Maybe eventually certainly not immediately
Not till you can play as the necrons
wintry mist
im happy to make my own custom chapter and/or guard regiment
hopefully with cosmetic options
still warren
Definitely looks like theres an army painter
tired cairn
I wonder how many years away the game is
wintry mist
it's more than just an army painter iirc
it's actual wargear customisation for your troops
misty violet
That's a powerful fist
broken dew
gawdamn
broken dew
total war is the game series where the games have like a million dlc's for new factions and such right
main pagoda
ya
broken dew
i was talking to my friend and he was kind of interested in this new one but also did not want to have to deal with that so he could play whatever factions he wanted to
frankly i myself got quite interested when they showed that you can customize your faction units and such
but having to deal with the whole dlc thing does kind of kill my interest
pastel rampart
Doubtless they'll include DLC for sub-factions like specific SM chapters.
broken dew
yeah that's the kind of stuff that i just would not want to deal with honestly
main pagoda
yeah so assuming they follow the TWW system theres two main types of DLC, factions and LL packs. Factions are well new factions while LL packs have two lords for a existing faction plus new mechanics and units
floral herald
That's a powerful fist
Yooooo he’s holding the claw back with the other arm
That’s sick
main pagoda
its himothy
pastel rampart
I tried playing Total Warhammer 1 and I didn't get more than like 4 hours into it.
jaunty dawn
if the game is more focused on faction customisation then the legendary lord pack system would presumably have to change
paper bluff
We gotta get to total warhammer 40k 3
jaunty dawn
in terms of actual top level factions its mostly having to buy multiple releases yeah
pastel rampart
if the game is more focused on faction customisation then the legendary lord pac...
Primarchs, I bet.
jaunty dawn
I don't think that works with faction customisation though?
and like they didn't show any named characters in the trailer either
pastel rampart
Maybe? I think we'd need to find out more but like...I don't doubt they'll add characters to it, up to and including primachs if TW is any indication.
jaunty dawn
ironically another issue with copying the legendary lords is that there's like. not that many of them for a lot of factions lmao
and then a lot of characters that overlap
still warren
There's enough races/factions they could milk that for ages instead of legendary lords
wintry mist
I think what we will get
main pagoda
its the same in fantasy but LL packs are less work than a full new faction so they kinda act as a middle ground between releasees
main pagoda
please dont even joke about that before you will it into existance
wintry mist
no unironically
I'm not even joking
and I dont hate it?
if it is what they say and you can genuinely customize the gear of your troops
jaunty dawn
yeah I'd agree
wintry mist
it will allow for some crazy guard kitbashes if they do it
I imagine customisation packs themed around specific sub factions
introduce a few new units or unit types, and then the customisations to go along with them
elysian drop troops? drop troop gear and drop unit types
farsight enclaves? melee battlesuits and idk gue'vesa?
or maybe a gue'vesa subfaction alone that introduces gue'vesa units that can have imperial gear
but can only be recruited from human worlds
still warren
I can see the vision, basically those could take the place of Legendary lord dlcs
wintry mist
yeah
main pagoda
i could see them being a frankenstein of the two
wintry mist
maybe they introduce named character units you can recruit? or you get an LL equivalent with say farsight or the ultramarines dlc gets your guilliman or whatever
but it's not the focus
main pagoda
The focus will probably be less on LLs i imagine
will say the ship tab on the UI does make me think we might see some naval stuff
wintry mist
yeah like if it doesn't have an LL/named character in it it's no big deal because the focus was adding units anyway
main pagoda
they used to do unit packs for the historicals so its not like they aint done it before
still warren
will say the ship tab on the UI does make me think we might see some naval stuff
They mention fleet upgrades too in the store page but that might just be functionally like black arc upgrades. Fire support and unit buffs
quaint compass
I know this is just Hopium, but if they make interesting supply lines a central mechanic my life will be theirs (or my debit card, whatever they want tbh)
main pagoda
i would be surprised TW has never done anything but generic supply stuff would be cool but uh dont hold out hope
floral herald
Warhammer 40K is also not super a supply lines kind of setting
jaunty dawn
though looking back at the original tww trailer they didn't really have characters in that either and also showed a lord of change which wouldn't be in the game till tww3 so
main pagoda
(there was one in 1 the norsca lord)
jaunty dawn
oh that explains that then
main pagoda
it still took like 2 years to come out tho
quaint compass
(there was one in 1 the norsca lord)
Chaos lord*
With the day one DLC Chaos you had Archaeon and Sarthoriel and Sigvald as your choices afaik
quaint compass
He was my problematic fave
actually
It had all four of them
I distinctly remember that when the Chaos Incursion occured in TTW1/2 as Archaeon, that feathery fuck turned on you
wintry mist
wintry mist
"You know I'd be terribly embarassed if I were that boys father"
all the chapters looking at the ultramarines
quaint compass
you couldnt play as him
Yet again, you're right. He was made an option in multiplayer, but never campaignia
quaint compass
Tzeentch overrepresented in Total War
Total 40khammer will have NO tzeentch units
tired cairn
Warhammer 40K is also not super a supply lines kind of setting
TW40k implements more in-depth logistics and then a bunch of hive worlds start starving because so many of them rely on multi-year and unreliable trade route imports from agriworlds
quaint compass
Only norscan
quaint compass
TW40k implements more in-depth logistics and then a bunch of hive worlds start s...
That's the recruitment mechanic for chaos and gsc
pastel rampart
Total 40khammer will have NO tzeentch units
It'll just be the Nurgle sections of Boltgun, all the time, forever.
main pagoda
food coming back could be cool
quaint compass
Would be especially pertinent for making control of different worlds matter
rocky shale
I doubt there's going to be toooo much logistics focus
quaint compass
Logistics matter in regular total war, but it's mostly confined to making money and having the right buildings for what you want. It'd be neat to have a different system in place for 40k (and a space game in general)
main pagoda
in historicals you have food being a resource
main pagoda
but TWW thats gone the way of the dodo outside of 2? factions
quaint compass
Ye, but that's not proscriptive
maybe they make the space layer of Total WourtyK about supply lines so they avoid the need for making space ship combat
Or maybe they make Warhammer: Armada 3 just for fun
tired cairn
This was the image of the strategic map. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it's mostly placeholder
quaint compass
Highly likely
rocky shale
Food also makes sense less for a lot of other factions
Like orks, necrons, aeldari/drukhari aren't worrying much about food
tired cairn
I wonder if the Aeldari will have a bunch of special mechanics. It seems a bit weird for them to be conquering a bunch of planets
upper bluff
Yeah that's a good point I assume you'll have a craftworld
junior summit
In fairness total warhammer already does a lot of shooting
main pagoda
or just the entire black powder games
jaunty dawn
I mean the thing is the black powder games/factions kinda don't really work and also 40k is post machine gun
but also like even archery isn't really like
balanced
or like sisters of twilight eagle riders are basically attack helicopters and they also kinda bust the game
still warren
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/total-war/total-war-warhammer-40-000-wants-to-be-the-seminal-warhammer-40k-game-says-its-devs-who-sell-me-in-just-8-words-you-can-customize-the-fingers-on-space-marines/ this interview they mention units using cover
wintry mist
Creative Assembly has approached the task by blending Total War's signature formula with inspiration from 40K's tabletop game. The ranged and melee structuring is still in place, but has been changed to feel more dynamic and hybrid. Soldiers will be able to use cover on the battlefield, and individual characters within one unit can be equipped uniquely.
"Like you'd expect in the tabletop game, a unit of your warriors isn't just made up of one unit type. It's not the same person: they've got different specialists, different weapon styles,"
me likey
floral herald
This is ambitious
wintry mist
oh my god
it might be a lot of autoresolves
or just like, you have a main force
and then an expeditionary force that can conquer places for you
tired cairn
Maybe. It really depends on how much stuff per planet there is. It's not like planets and provinces have to be mechanically different things
floral herald
The sense I am getting is that there is a massive persistent galactic map and then a series of “crusade fronts” you play your hybrid fighting and GS campaigns on
Not the whole galaxy at once
Which honestly feels like a good way to represent the “only war” feeling of the setting
Like yeah you won here
wintry mist
I think it might be like warhammer tws where
there are a bunch of non playable factions that you can fight
that will later get expanded on when they become playable
I do remember there being factions you could fight that weren't playable in tww until later
For some, the most exciting flex of Warcore's muscles will be Total War: Warhammer 40,000's in-depth customization. We've already touched on how players can choose the weapons of squad members, but that's only one extension of the freedom on offer. Space Marine players will be able to design their own chapters, select their colors, and more.
"We didn't quite get to [customization] with Total War: Warhammer. We went all-out on this one. It really is next-level, probably more than any game for Warhammer we've seen," says Hall, beaming. "Just the other day, a customization guru was showing me that you can customize the fingers on Space Marines! That's the level of granularity we're going with this. Players can start with their chapter – and obviously all factions are going to have that to an extent – but I think we're going to see some really great-looking Space Marine chapters."
chat we might have a spiritual successor to chapter master
still warren
Blorbo coefficients previously unseen
floral herald
It might be
tired cairn
The sense I am getting is that there is a massive persistent galactic map and th...
Reading the article, yeah I agree with this interpretation. It sounds like each campaign is a unique/semi-unique set of factors and it's represented on a metagame map.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a procedural generation option in addition to set arcs
junior summit
I mean the thing is the black powder games/factions kinda don't really work and ...
Ratling guns
I wouldn't be surprised to see lower overall model counts in the RTT portion than TW:WH
Otherwise the micro and blorbo management requirements are going to be gnarly
wintry mist
I hope there is actual diplomacy
I think we can all agree this new direction is confusing. Warhammer 40k?
I mean going from Warhammer 3 to Warhammer 40,000? CA just glossed over 39,997 entries in the series. How did we go from Orcs riding boars to Orcs riding advanced spaceships? What is the in-between for these two points? I'm willing to wait to see if they go into this passed over lore in a blog post or something but I can't help but feel unsure about this rapid pace in game releases.
vital barn
Interceptor City is very fun
good dogfighting and the kind of unreasonably ostentatious scale that the best 40k books have
thousands of aircraft dogfighting at 1000kph inside a Hive City
thin ibex
i cant wait for total war 40k mods for 'realistic' space marines that make them run faster than jets and one shot every target
junior summit
I liked interceptor city
A few too many plots and the traitor subplot gets resolved pretty quick
But besides that
rocky shale
Ratling guns
Have you ever tried to get rattling guns to fire within 100 feet of a small bump?
junior summit
Also very funny to see Protagonist Lady and remember when she was a bit character in Gaunt's Ghosts
vital barn
Imperial pilots are also apparently all so stimmed up they can react in a millisecond at 1000kph, which is pretty damn impressive
junior summit
they also have the ace combat people wired into their aircraft
wintry mist
i cant wait for total war 40k mods for 'realistic' space marines that make them ...
this but unironically
vital barn
it's always nice to see Chaos fighting a campaign that's a campaign rather than a warp-bullshit-enabled collateral kill on an entire war effort from one tiny raid
junior summit
Which is funny ig
floral herald
i cant wait for total war 40k mods for 'realistic' space marines that make them ...
This but also it takes like 700 recruits and 40 turns to make a new normal space marine
junior summit
Double Eagle was also solid even if it was a pretty standard Abnett Imperial Guard War book
vital barn
I liked Double Eagle, even if again it had one too many plot threads
perhaps Abnett's biggest repeated flaw is "oh this fucker again, he gets like five chapters and doesn't do anything interesting in them"
vital barn
Double Eagle and Interceptor City get points for being books about plane fights, which show up barely anywhere else in the vast 40k canon
wintry mist
This but also it takes like 700 recruits and 40 turns to make a new normal space...
turning tw40k into chapter master 2
vital barn
it's basically them and Deff Squadwon
maybe there's a book about a Marine pilot somewhere that I've missed
pine matrix
turning tw40k into chapter master 2
That's honestly be peak
tired cairn
Bluesky
stark cypress
So, since they're doing the entire galaxy instead of just one system.
How much of a graphics card would I need to handle that?
vital barn
I also read the Silent King book, which features no silent king
and has very cool admech
the small explorator expedition dies to a necron tomb ship, but everyone dies to necrons, and they've managed to reverse-engineer enough necrontech to design a no-dimensional-fuckery-zone projector and hack some basic warriors
Stygies VIII doing work
runic swallow
I recently got the first Guant’s ghosts compendium, haven’t read it yet though
vital barn
they also have seven cruisers and twenty kastelans, if that's a small expedition by Admech standards I'm impressed
floral herald
How much of a graphics card would I need to handle that?
This would almost certainly be CPU bottlenecked I bet
runic swallow
Also, wild how 40k book prices swing wildly in used stores for $5 to like, behind glass $200 collectors item price for no discernible reason
vital barn
there's also some fun political sideline where it's mentioned that the heterodox xenotech-using magos was exiled to the pariah nexus to die but the higher-ups who sent him there are still taking all his data and his designs for themselves back on Ryza
which is a fun way to resolve "the admech keeps Doing Things but they also have religious proscriptions against Doing Things"
stark cypress
Because uh, they're talking about all these crusade theaters
And I'm like "Oh shit. I might have to finally invest in a desktop for gaming."
vital barn
"so, by law of orthodox mars you should not have made this tech, but now the tech has been made it's still holy in the Omnissiah's sight, therefore gimme the phase-shift jammer"
main pagoda
TW is good at being run on lower end pcs
vital barn
the quite large xenotech enjoyer sect takes this even further and decides all tech is holy, even Necron stuff
main pagoda
like i managed to get TWW3 to run on a dell work laptop
vital barn
to the point a guy gets his arm hacked while trying to have a code-war with a Wraith and goes "this fucking rules, praise the machine god" before a giant wave of monoliths and immortals show up and rinse him
typical Admech response to being killed by something fun and entertaining
vital barn
ah, and we have some more FabGen lore - Raskian got a servo-skull out of the webway before dying, the Mechanicus has the information on the Deldar negotiations about the Golden Throne and we're getting an upcoming book called Master of Mars, on the identity of the next fabgen and the worryingly volatile political environment of Mars
that sounds fun
apparently the protocol for invading tomb worlds is to fill the first wave of dropships with the chumpiest troops available, usually Ministorum rabble with shitty lasguns, because they're all going to die anyway so you just need something to absorb the beams
suitably imperial
also explains all the random chumps in Twice-Dead King
Guilliman is pissed at the Martians for hiding the true scale of the Necron threat because they wanted to loot, but that has now been resolved
and they have done some useful things with all the loot
runic swallow
apparently the protocol for invading tomb worlds is to fill the first wave of dr...
“I’m sorry Jeremiah, your Words Per Minute has put you below standard, you’ve been transferred to the Mechanicus, pick up your lasgun on the way to the landing shuttle”
vital barn
apparently most of them are volunteers, of all things
zealots in drop-churches that are basically tin cans with stone vaulting
Necron cruisers seem to go about 3-1 against Imperial ships of the same size, and roughly half of them get to phase-out rather than blow up
which is strong, but not as bullshit strong as they were in the original BFG
floral herald
which is strong, but not as bullshit strong as they were in the original BFG
That sounds about right for BFG honestly
vital barn
I vaguely remember the best you could do being damaging enough of them for the force to leave, but I could be wrong
it's been a long time
floral herald
They were really tough and fast
But not unkillable
But their speed and firepower and toughness combined to make them super hard to handle if well piloted because you just couldn’t like
Bring firepower to bear against them properly
vital barn
that seems to fit
the necrons in this kick the hell out of Guilliman's crusade fleet but they're not, like, uninteractable
the Mechanicus gets to actually engage with their technology and use their big fancy guns, the space marines bolter bolteringly, the chumps on the ground die a lot but still manage to take out a few with meltas and so forth
rare good xenos depiction
floral herald
Nice
vital barn
Szarekh himself shows up for like, two seconds
he says hi to Gulliman, Guilliman stabs some lords, SK goes "nah I'd win" and tries to duel him but then the local Eldar goes "shit he might win" and does psyker stuff to close the necron portal so there is no fight
paper bluff
Like orks, necrons, aeldari/drukhari aren't worrying much about food
It depends on the scale of orkoid progress.....
Because there is specifically a point during the war with the beast where orcs were farming Humans like cattle
Anyways, for resources with the drukari, you'd need to have victims. for the eldar. It'd be birthright, the space Marines don't really need food that much, but they do need to feed the populations of the people they're in charge of for recruitment and all that
A mechanicI could see for the necrons is resurrection and opening of tomb worlds
vital barn
I like this Silent King book, even if it's misnamed and has a few too many wandering viewpoint characters
charred bridge
Orks might just be like clans that will actually fight for you or some sort of dominance resource that represents how many clans will fight for you rather than aimlessly fight for themselves
Winning big fights means more orks from all over will be drawn to you
Or the simple option is "waaagh"
vital barn
there's a Myrmidon in it who kills three wraiths and then later fights a suicidal delaying action against a whole swarm of them, and lasting longer than a few seconds in that situation is pretty good considering they just ate at least twenty Space Marines
Cult Myrmidax continues to collect Ws
I think the only time I've seen them go down easily is when Vashtorr psychically dismantles a couple to show off his evil technomancy, and he does that to lots of things
Magos Hiax takes a few paragraphs to explain to the space marines how best to go about tomb raiding, which is basically "look, the fact there are more necrons doesn't matter, any necrons can kill you, you have to be sneaky and trust in the fact that canopteks are dumb as hell"
charred bridge
Do ravenguard's weird mental stealth thing work on Necrons?
It seems like a good way to just sneak up on most higher Necrons
vital barn
what kind of stealth works on necrons is wildly variable
in one book Ultramarines hide from necrons in particularly thick fog, in Silent King they need the tomb robber magos' custom xenotech-influenced sensor baffles
charred bridge
Except like imotek who has like nanoscarabs in the air so he'd notice if an invisible fly move through one of them
Fog seems like a wild wayb
This technologically advanced ancient race that fought psychic gods with all sorts of warp trickery doesn't have like infrared or UV or sensitive sound sensors and can be hidden via regular fog
vital barn
space marines, skitarii, Tau and (usually) necrons are all basically immune to that kind of thing, this was just badly written crons
charred bridge
Ah ok
floral herald
This technologically advanced ancient race that fought psychic gods with all sor...
See they’ll be looking for reality warpers and gods
charred bridge
Well they fought the Krorks too
vital barn
Canopteks, regardless of author, are dumb as rocks unless a higher necron is directing them
they're basically necron servitors, so it makes sense
but crypteks and lords should be basically impossible to stealth past without dedicated technowizardry
charred bridge
And they fought a ton of lesser species that werent mentioned, the psykers were the biggest weakness but not everyone they fought were psykers. They did have the Ctan though
vital barn
A tech-priest let loose a blast from a back-mounted neutron laser.
what the fuck
random bridge crew enginseer I was not familliar with your game
(he is immediately killed by Immortals, but still)
for reference, the usual size of a neutron laser:
floral herald
I love the random tech priests who aren’t even really combatants but still carry some kind of absurd hypergun
Random martians, unprompted
vital barn
yeah, you have to whip out the mars-issued anti-tank glock and remove at least one necron before you are murdered because unlike the Myrmidon you aren't in fact a bipedal tank
the usual reason for this is that a Mars-standard fusion cutter servo arm is basically a flamer or a melta depending on whether you put it on cone or tightbeam
this guy just decided to loot the toys cabinet at some point
runic swallow
Random martians, unprompted
Oh my god how is this the first time I noticed that he’s holding a Hi-point and not a Glock in that picture
I probably saw it in really crummy copied 17 bajillion times jpeg format before or just wasn’t paying attention but man that’s funny
floral herald
Oh my god how is this the first time I noticed that he’s holding a Hi-point and ...
I also never noticed that haha
runic swallow
It’s probably in .40 S&W and he just don’t know any better
junior summit
Random martians, unprompted
Rho-1 Lux pulling out an honest to god volkite serpenta when everyone else had autoguns was pretty peak
"This pistol is a credible threat to space marines"
vital barn
it's that old thing about techpriests, you never know whether you've gotten a puny nerd with a hyperfixation on binharic poetry or a god of war until after you've already committed one way or another, and some of either column have pasts in the other
at least one Archmagos has given something approximating the "used to play college ball" speech while machine-gunning a whole room of bad guys
runic swallow
You never know if a tech priest is concealed carrying a heavy bolter, volkite, Grav Bombard, or some fucked up thing only they know about that turns you inside out
vital barn
also some of them genuinely are chumps, don't get me wrong
there's one in Dominion Genesis who is just a box
really really good at writing dramatic noosphere speeches but it's not like he can fight you
junior summit
The good monologue about the volkite is actually in Vorbis Conspiracy.
High-power las flashes by the hole in the wall. The windows shatter. Her guns make a throaty crack with each discharge. Her pistols are powerful. Mine is better. I take one shot. The wall is no obstacle to the volkite. It utilises similar principles to melta-weaponry, although far more refined. Hyper-agitation of the wall’s atomic structure causes it to vaporise instantly, transferring violent energies to the next layer, then the next, building a potent chain reaction. All this takes fractions of a second. The result is spectacular. The serpenta cores a hole through the rockcrete, spraying molten material in a wide cone around the thermal ray as it punches into the next room.
junior summit
You never know if a tech priest is concealed carrying a heavy bolter, volkite, G...
Iirc there was at least one sawed off lascannon
vital barn
yeah, Magos Addenbrow
he was asked why he was concealed carrying a lascannon when he didn't even know there were orks around and said something along the lines of "I find many problems can be solved by having a lascannon"
runic swallow
See previous picture, it’s his problem solver
junior summit
Also lets be real even in "safe" parts of the imperium having a gun is a good idea
runic swallow
The good monologue about the volkite is actually in Vorbis Conspiracy.
`High-po...
Also, really cool description of a volkite that does a cool job differentiating it from other stuff
junior summit
See also necromunda and the mechanicus dumping random servitors into the wilderness
vital barn
honestly the volkite would not be my pick for cop stuff just because they tend to hellfuck everything within a fairly wide radius of the impact point and start a giant fire, to the degree that it's their selling point in 30k
but I suppose Mechanicus cops have fairly wide latitude to shoot first
runic swallow
You never know when a meeting can escalate into an argument can escalate into a fight can escalate into pulling your concealed carry death ray
upper canopy
The only reason you should not have a gun is because you are styling on someone because you have so many guys with guns they can't shoot you
thin ibex
Something I think about with necrons and stealth is that the leaders have all the tech they need, but also their massive egos mean that they are not acting in optimal ways
junior summit
but I suppose Mechanicus cops have fairly wide latitude to shoot first
Admech stuff is typically grotesquely overbuilt so I could see needing a bigger gun to deal with rogue combat servitors and such
upper canopy
I did want to play a Rogue Trader who's entire gimmick was 10 digi weapons
vital barn
Something I think about with necrons and stealth is that the leaders have all th...
yeah, Necrons and Admech share the core characteristic of "theoretically, this large agglomeration of guys gals and roombas can fuck up almost anything, but they have a list of cognitive biases as long as your arm and are busy yelling at each other"
runic swallow
Admech stuff is typically grotesquely overbuilt so I could see needing a bigger ...
Yeah when you’re trying to arrest Sub-Magos Chi-Rho-Delta you don’t know what he’s packing or if he replaced his body with a adamantine exoskeleton
vital barn
Necrons take it to a more dramatic extreme, since their hypertech is unmatched but paired with robodementia of three different kinds
vital barn
Yeah when you’re trying to arrest Sub-Magos Chi-Rho-Delta you don’t know what he...
I think this might be why the Malagra are like they are (weapon skill 6-7, everyday carrying paragon blades)
I don't think we've had a malagra in a book yet
runic swallow
What’s there deal?
mental birch
Tempted by Myrmidax Magos
vital barn
Mechanicum inquisitors who are also sword cultivators
mental birch
What’s there deal?
Mechanicum inquisition
vital barn
scare the fuck out of other techpriests
junior summit
Admech secret police
runic swallow
👍
vital barn
the Ordo Reductor and the Cult Myrmidax are violence freaks but generally just viewed as odd
meanwhile, the reaction to Malagra:
ah, here's the blurb
you can recruit their tech-assassins to fuck people up, they're mentioned to usually operate in trios
mechanically they are somewhere between a Space Marine Chapter Master and a Custodes Tribune in individual killiness
junior summit
vital barn
they picked up WS6 in the latest edition, the giant pile of extra wounds is just because everyone got that
mental birch
Trying to figure out how to build a scsry magos myrmidaz
vital barn
mental birch
Murmidax
vital barn
honk shoo myrmimimi
sadly myrmidax no longer get the giant gun mounts from their arcana
might as well give him an archaeotech pistol and a big gun, though
vital barn
I like the plasma fusil
with Guide he's BS7, so that is critting for AP2 D2 autowounds a third of the time
I wonder if he can have two pistols, let me check
junior summit
In Lords of Mars Kotov overclocks himself and dumps his entire ammo load in a subjective minute while manually aiming every shot
One of the high points
vital barn
I'm not sure how the Pistol rule interacts with the Firing Protocols rule but if it does let you pack two pistols into one gun slot then you can legally take a plasma pistol, archaeotech pistol and plasma fusil
which is 5 shots of midstrength breaching and good damage that you can get BS7 crits on
mental birch
with Guide he's BS7, so that is critting for AP2 D2 autowounds a third of the ti...
Magos not archmagos hmm
vital barn
hold on putting this here for reference
ah, normal magos
on him I generally just grab a quick melta or grav gun
runic swallow
How does the rad stuff work in current HH?
vital barn
he's going to be casting cybertheurgy on myrmidons a lot, presumably
mental birch
Yeah hahaha
vital barn
meltagun is good for opportunistic Pathing
and the BS6 guided lord with dual fusils can do most of the hard work
vital barn
How does the rad stuff work in current HH?
Poison 2+, if you get an unsaved wound the entire unit's toughness drops by 1 for the rest of the game
unfortunately the rad-cleansers are a touch overpriced, but rad nades are good
rad grenades + grav gun is my expensive magos loadout, debuffs the fuck out of 3+ armour marine squads
but generally you aren't short on ways to disintegrate MEQ
the rad nade is just a great buff for plasma secutors in their quest to eat every tac squad and score vanguard
vital barn
might go rad nades and meltagun if you want to splash out
opportunistic tank pop and getting -1T on a MEQ squad means plasma is killing on 2s
mental birch
Meltagun is there for a very funny path kill
vital barn
48% chance to instagib a 3W 5++ centurion if you have Guide up
which includes a stock champion
mental birch
I mean like thats really funny odds right?
Just rougjly even odds to pop before a fight
vital barn
1/12 chance of instant killing a non-termie praetor but he's absolutely going to kill you the other 11 times
so send the Guided dual fusil lord at him instead
same weapon skill, better durability and Path is 4 shots that crit good
mental birch
We have choicessss
vital barn
in that unit you sure do
mental birch
Wait hol on how many attacks does rhe praetor lord have?
vital barn
neither are favoured against a praetor, but dual fusil path at BS6 does enough damage that you have a shot
vital barn
Wait hol on how many attacks does rhe praetor lord have?
Legion praetor is probably swinging 6 times, since he's going to win init against a slow-ass myrmidon
Lord only has 3 attacks and can't be made a Master Sarge because he's not actually a sarge
but he does have WS6, so marine is hitting 3 times, wounding 2.5, maybe getting 1 through 5++ 5+++
so you get to Path him twice, hopefully
if he's smart he starts picking the "neither of us get gambit X" option to stop you pathing but then he has no finishing blow and you can chance it with FB or Flurry
mental birch
Yeag
Cancer engines arent needed right?
Becausw one thought is the myrmidax magos with scyllax guardian maniplds
Its his 108 floating swords
vital barn
as in the actual gun?
rad-engine is not really better than a cleanser, they're not great this ed
magos doesn't need a furnace if his squad all has them, if over half the unit has furnaces none of them are penalised
mental birch
Ahh
mental birch
rad-engine is not really better than a cleanser, they're not great this ed
Rad enfine yeah
pastel rampart
paper bluff
Shame he was dying of cancer at the time
paper bluff
a terrific orator
Sort of adjacent to that, but and we'll return to the forty k talk.But in the new street fighter movie country, music, singer orville peck is playing vega
stark cypress
_>
strong owl
wintry mist
been thinking up a ganger game for imperium maledictum
past sphinx
looking that the levithan dread sheet is funny
they figured out something nobody else would, mounting more than 1 HK missile to something
wintry mist
been thinking up a ganger game for imperium maledictum
This might rock actually
Crime lord patron and ur doing crime in a hive city
paper bluff
A fun twist would be is that it was a hive noble the whole time financing the gang and using them to sabotage a rival noble house
Alternatively, if you start the gangers out young enough, it could be a space marine trial And they're the patrons to select an aspirant
charred bridge
Patron not having your best interest at heart and originally planning to train your crew as a sacrificial statement piece after like killing someone key but having no escape plan for you to survive the aftermath could be a very good dynamic
Especially if they have opportunites to sus it out and learn about before they do the big job done that would get them killed
paper bluff
The secret big bad evil guy
Alternatively.....
Well perhaps more in conjunction with
"Okay boss we got you the crate. Those Adech cogs didn't seem to want it to leave the temple, what is it? Some old weapon?"
"No no my dear lad. It is something called a Halo device..."
charred bridge
Didnt necrons have a blackstone fortress that was basically halo device
Not even out of place for 40k really
wintry mist
the idea is that they're in a gang doing shit for their wider gang and moving up the ranks, I think
it'd be on my homebrew world ™ of Calaenas, which ended up becoming the homeworld of a fleet based chapter after they got stranded there during the noctis aeterna. This is foreshadowing for when a single (one) (1) marine comes knocking after they do something very bad
jaunty dawn
Didnt necrons have a blackstone fortress that was basically halo device
Halo devices are xenotech from the halo stars
The most famous of which make you immortal but also a cannibal
Or like a vampire ghoul
little bay
yeah
BUT
there are some that don't have that side effect
they're few
but they exist
deft crest
Friends, I am going to be playing kill team with bugs today. Does anybody know what the best tacops options are for bugs?
floral herald
Flank I think
Bugs struggle to take mission actions and Flank lets them not take mission actions and make use of their phenomenal mobility
wintry mist
do chapters that arent the original 1st founding found new chapters?
jaunty dawn
yup