Warhammer and Such

[floral herald]

There's a funny line in the 9e CSM codex about how most people couldn't tell the difference when they took over

[tired cairn]

Do you think the Black Legion people complain about their new email scroll jobs just like some of the Taliban did after they retook Afghanistan?

[floral herald]

Yeah all the time

[tired cairn]

"We used to gloriously slaughter people for Khorne and now I have to read reports to make sure the forges are producing enough demon engines"

[floral herald]

Aha

[mental birch]

Taurus campaign pls

[floral herald]

I think it's funny how Abaddon makes his Khorne Guy in charge of naval stuff

[tired cairn]

"They don't even use the Demon Engines to kill people. They are mostly being used for grain harvesting. Though they still kill a lot of peasants"

[floral herald]

I think the closest thing to an actual logistics head for Abaddon is the Slaanesh Guy

Which, all things considered, could probably be worse

He distilled a whole hive city into invincibility juice which probably took a lot of coordination

[main pagoda]

oh god the excel sheet is giving him pleasure

[tired cairn]

The MREs might be a bit too good

[floral herald]

lmao

[stark cypress]

Oh man

I just realized

because of the Rift, Imperium Nihlus, and Imperium Secundus.

Is The Severan Dominate still a thing?

Or did they just sorta do a "Oh. Oh no. Uh, let us back in! Let us back in! Let us back in!" thing?

[mental birch]

One thought is space scale

But no it'll be planet campaign scale probbaly

Hmmmm

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah thats what I was thinking but I dont think theyd do ittt

Like

[quaint compass]

Iunno, most of their foolish actions were in response to the imperial force sent to quell it, and some part because it started off on imperial sensibilities

[jaunty dawn]

You very much could and it would be really cool actually

But I dont think they will :T

But also like

[quaint compass]

Obviously not

[jaunty dawn]

Badab kinda like

Proves the point cause most chapters only had a few companies each committed

[main pagoda]

space scale would be wacky

do able but wacky

[quaint compass]

Oooho

Yeah I can see it, so there is a tangible space for both space combat (ferrying armies to planets for conquest) and ground combat (they made it)

[main pagoda]

imma keep it a buck TW does not have the brain power to pull of space combat in any way that would be fun

your probably going to get the TWW treatment of just a land battle

[quaint compass]

Ye, but I would rather they try and innovate when put in a new space

Hell, a simple system of supply-lines and blockades would be neat

[main pagoda]

i think thats what we will get

[quaint compass]

You can send forces around basically anywhere, warp-travel and all that, but sending them into systems you don't have a presences in makes the travel time dubious. You will have to trust nothing appears to disrupt their travel.
Areas you have established a logistical route to or through has a known travel time, and allows your forces to be reinforced and supplied.
A force outside of the logistical route cannot be resupplied unless they are established on a planet/system with the right resources.
A force established in the middle of a logistical route divides it, limiting which planet's resources can go where. Planet A and B can raise forces which require Resource 1 and 2, while Planet C and D behind the blockade have access to Resource 3 and 4.

Placing a ground force without orbital dominance is risky, and can cause attrition or somesuch. If marines had a shtick, I could see them ignoring the attrition due to STEEHL REHN

[wintry mist]

I can see the campaign stuff working fine as long as the scale is right

But like

I just dont see the ground combat working well

The tactical manuever element of a good few factions is smaller than the company to battalion sized elements seen in most total war games

(Though to be fair the manuever element of most irl formation armies was way larger)

[past sphinx]

Wargame Red dragon is kinda the blueprint

[wintry mist]

Yeah unironically wargame/steel division/warno is the kinda blueprint for large scale combat in 40k

But then it's not total war

[past sphinx]

its total war if you can doom stack

[wintry mist]

Eu4 is total war.....

[past sphinx]

Hearts of iron is a total war

[wintry mist]

Lmfao

[stark cypress]

There are two dichotomies

Is it a Total?

Or an Iron Heart?

[sweet solar]

honestly, it would never come out with all the factions to start with anyway, the tww never did

they can just start with the factions that work

imperial soup
chaos soup
ork tide
tyranid swarm

eldar can maybe get a story dlc where you do some special small battle then manipulate the imperials to fighting beside you

or they can be combined with exodites who have planetery level forces of dinosaur technicals

[wintry mist]

Imperial soup is like, a problem though because its just ww1 trench warfare

Which is actually quite difficult to replicate in the total war engine

[sweet solar]

imperial knights

knights lead everyone else tides behind

SOME imperials go trench mode, most even, but not all

[mental birch]

Ground combat is Epic scale

Funnier idea

Total War Horus Heresy

[stark cypress]

There is that WW1 mod

[wintry mist]

Yeah no that's my point

[mental birch]

Set factions

[wintry mist]

The ones that do go trench mode work the best

And even then it's a little weird

I think a pre-battle phase could be cool?

[sweet solar]

i disagree as there are entire guard mechanised regiments and drop regiments who would work way better

[wintry mist]

Like it's the parts before the giant set piece battle where two armies clash and beat up each other

And then you do the actual battle where things like squads and platoons start to break down

[stark cypress]

Be so funny if a Total War 40K results in a new Guard regiment coming out of nowehere

and by extension Non-Cadian/Krieg models being made

[wintry mist]

The thing is that they operate like real small unit tactics armies do

[sweet solar]

elysian drop troopers

[wintry mist]

Where u dont run around in a giant loose blob like most total war skirmishers

[sweet solar]

not really in the lore or tabletop

in both the mechanised and drop guard just kind of charge

you arent clearing house to house in 40k

charge into gun range at least

move around battlefield terrain

very much like a tww ranged army with a lot of ranged monsters

so long as the engine can handle a transport vehicle

[wintry mist]

Thaaats fair also how the guard are depicted is deeply author based yeah

[stark cypress]

Be so funny if next year, Paradox announced either a Warhammer or Fantasy game.

[wintry mist]

See that would be peak

That would work

[mental birch]

Paradox announces Horus Heresy

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/40kmemes/s/cR1ubDd3Am

[stark cypress]

CK3/EUV as a planetary governor.

Or at least something sector wide.

[sweet solar]

alternatively it can just straight up be titan scale and even MORE zoomed out

[wintry mist]

I would prefer that

I think being super zoomed our would benefit a lot

[sweet solar]

smaller amounts of troops but behaves more like slow small battle tww

with infantry level stuff being huge blobs

eldar and tau and votan etc just arent here

[wintry mist]

Pointless game...

No tau command game...

[sweet solar]

just not enough of them and they have no titans

you would have to play tau like a modern air defense/offense sim with like a bunch of orca doing bvr while pathfinders markerlight up titans

[mental birch]

Nah they gonna give Crisis suits if tau

They too iconic

[sweet solar]

for reference that was m9stly a joke

[tired cairn]

There is lots of "every faction is fighting over this one single planet, don't think of the logistics of this" going on in 40k that you don't need to have space stuff

[sweet solar]

but for tau to be present the battles wpuld have to be smaller or it would have to be set in the future ir in an au where the tau empire is just bigger

or invent more client species which i would be here for to give them numbers if the game goes so large that you are zoomed out to titan level

[wintry mist]

I have no idea how the tau lose any fight with the imperium 😔

[tired cairn]

I would want a way to avoid full soup just because I think the inter-subfaction tensions in Imperial or Chaos groups are interesting

[wintry mist]

Tbf I think they've won a lot more than they've lost

[sweet solar]

tau outclass the imperium at basically every scale they want to fight the imperium on

and are really really really really really outclassing them on the politics and diplomacy front

like theres the "they didnt notice the change" joke about the black legion taking over bits of the imperium post rift

but the tau will straight up just turn up and let you do whatever so long as you slowly start to act more sane over time, and they will just give you infinite free technological upgrades and your mechanicus free reign to go hogwild with them

so long as you chip in for the greater good

[wintry mist]

I've been wanting to do a W&G game where the players are humans in the farsight enclaves or tau empire 😔

[sweet solar]

and stop trying to kill everyone and eat the corpses in powder form and lobotomise the survivors into slaves, please, for the love the of the greater good

we will build you a bigger church and give every arbites a plasma gun that doesnt overheat if you just stop fucking eating the corpses and lobotomising people

you dont even learn from it its just not nutritionally good for you you are all so malnourished

[wintry mist]

Lmfao

[vital barn]

I think you do have to assume that the Tau don't project the idiotizing field they did in Damocles and that the imperium occasionally sends some semblance of a competent military unit to that front

[sweet solar]

you have to assume that they could but by lore the times they went crusade it didnt work

the tau are popular and sell well enough that they have to be good enough to keep winning because they are too small to lose

ergo, they beat the imperium every time it matters

[vital barn]

yeah, that time they dropped half a million guardsmen a months walk from the target with no supplies in a desert

[tired cairn]

Generally the argument for why the Tau Empire gets to exist is that the Imperium is busy with other problems

[vital barn]

if it wasn't for the admech and space marines literally not have been a campaign book because the Tau could have not been there and the same thing would have happened

[sweet solar]

i think the best and funniest lore change answer would be "its 100% possible to both join the tau and keep paying the tithes"

[wintry mist]

This is the kind of strategic brilliance only a servant of the emperor could conjure up

[vital barn]

which is very 40k

but not a very good campaign book

the Damocles Crusade books were not well liked

[sweet solar]

have the tau empire expand but the imperium just doesnt notice

[vital barn]

compare to say, the Taros Campaign, which fucks

[sweet solar]

because the "conqoures imperial worlds" just get suspicously healthier and pay the tithes more on time

[tired cairn]

Probably has happened a few times

[wintry mist]

The tau win every time because manuever warfare is king, always

[vital barn]

also I suspect the Tau are expanding a fair bit in non-Imperial directions because everyone else is also turbofucked and the Imperium have the ability to throw bigger reaction forces at them than Generic Neighbor 500

[sweet solar]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-jerry-cheese-gif-4295886493414808475

the inquisitors they send to check come back with suspicously worm shaped necks like "nope yep thats fine :)" like a friendly loquicious of borg. and they stay as inquisitors they just get nicer to their retinue and better tat their job

[vital barn]

I mean, they don't

they got horribly beaten up by the Death Guard and bailed out by their client race's warp deity, they got ran over in the sole admech field victory ever in Damocles and they've gone back and forth against Nids

they're competent, but it's not like "competent, well-coordinated mechanised infantry" is something nobody else in the setting has ever seen

that's like, all Eldar

[wintry mist]

Oh no they don't actually win every time I was being facetious

Eldar are easy enough to beat a not insignificant number of them do melee

[tired cairn]

40k is a universe where running up and hitting someone with a chainsaw is a valid strategy though

[wintry mist]

Ultimately it's just whoever needs to win for the story wins

[sweet solar]

now queuing up the fanfic idea of Roboute making a secret treaty with the tau to let them keep expanding into imperial worlds becuase it improves grain efficiency by something stupid like %60

[vital barn]

the Mechanicus is very good at producing grain x lots, at the very least

they tend to do it in horrible grueling unpleasant ways and a lot of it gets lost the moment it leaves the agri-world, but man do they grow a lot of grain

[tired cairn]

I don't really get where Tau are expanding to. But given all the intelligent aliens they've found, I assume it's on the fringe of the Imperium since the Imperium somehow hadn't killed them all

[wintry mist]

I mean yeah the tau are on the galactic rim right?

[sweet solar]

ive read eisenhorne ive seen how it works by cannon lmao
"what if we just made a really BIG combine harvester and put all the grain industries inside it and have it move continously at the exact rate that the grain grows such that it is always harvested perfectly at the right time"

[vital barn]

admittedly

that is pretty cool

[wintry mist]

LMFAO

[sweet solar]

it was a good bit

[vital barn]

what if we just scaled up so much that the industry-wide bottleneck is literally watching plants grow

[sweet solar]

eisenhorn is a fun time, i love all the side missions to random imperial worlds

[vital barn]

they're next to Ultramar, but there are also a bunch of necrons, death guard and nids

so honestly right now I think the Tau are either busy or going in other directions

it's only been like two decades, punching the death guard will take up a large part of that

back when the timeskip was a century I was wondering where all the imperium-tau conflict has been but post-retimescaling Damocles just finished and it's plausible everyone has had too much shit going on

[tired cairn]

Oh, Ultramar is also near the galactic rim

[stark cypress]

Please let this give us Guard sprues to make The Auxilia.

[sweet solar]

(thinking about it the tau grain hack would probably be a big bioreactor linked to a machine that just forms the grain out carbhoydrate, starch, sugar and cellulose and wraps it all into little grains without bothering to waste chemical energy on lifecycles)

[sweet solar]

oh did you see the models for 40k ultramarines auxilia that already got teased?

[stark cypress]

The heroes?

Yeah, I saw those guys

[sweet solar]

yeah

[pale narwhal]

A lot of tau agriculture is like. Hydroponics iirc

[charred bridge]

Corpseless starch? Who would eat that?!

[thin ibex]

Tau have won notable, meaningful victories, but they're not always winning

ohp chat just updated

sry for the necro

[charred bridge]

The issue with Tau losing to a major degree, is itd likely be the end of them as a faction

[thin ibex]

but yeah Tau tend to win on the backs of their tactical commanders outplaying superior opponents generally

[charred bridge]

Dont got enough worlds to handle teh scale of other factions

[thin ibex]

like shadowsun and farsight achieve huge things for an upstart empire, they're legitimate geniuses

Their like... most notable trait isnt battlefield dominance but that they grow rapidly via diplomacy as well

[charred bridge]

And slower FTL is pretty big in 40k, also no psykers and generally little warp knowledge

[thin ibex]

farsight reconstructing the codex retroactively by observations is huge, as an example, and in mugalath bay, shadowsun and the empire bloodied the imperium's nose and then was able to stay in the fight after the counterblow; the fight was ultimately a draw because the imperium exterminatus'd instead of fighting it out

the death guard savaged them badly, though iirc tau made a good account of themselves in void warfare, just got wreckd hard by death guard boarding forces

[charred bridge]

Doesnt help Ethereals seem to be suppressing certain tactics like close quarter suits unless absolutely necessary to beat an enemy or just not researching into warp and enemy psykers cause its just too horrible, Farsight Enclave is adapting but Tau as a whole are adapting much slower

[vital barn]

admittedly the Death Guard suck to fight in zone mortalis

nobody enjoys that one

[sour sequoia]

that part parses at least lmao it seems like quite literally social distancing is the only solution to death guard - they got one of the best track records against necrons

everybody gangsta till the skorpekh starts puking

[charred bridge]

They only survived hive fleet cause of a teammup with imperium

Eldar basically do Tau speed warfare but faster but its mostly only Drukhari raiders and not like a full scale invasion

[sour sequoia]

varies by hivefleet doesn't it? there's a couple other engagements where they out-innovate the hivemind swapping through tactics and taking advantage of tyranids' immediate response rather than big picture strategy

[vital barn]

at one point they team up with some crons for tyranid killing

which is fun

[sour sequoia]

I mostly know that one because imperium stans were Big Mad somebody beat bugs in a normal way instead of urga durga faith in da emprah chainsword harder

[sweet solar]

what I really think the tau need both lore wise and game wise is more client civilization stuff, including and especially INTEGRATED EX IMPERIAL HUMANS

[vital barn]

my favourite Imperial nid kill was the time they invaded the heavy metal band planet and the Mechanicus went "wait, there's no biomass here" and started deploying only their smallest brained forces

so every servitor killed like 1d4 termagants and then provided only a small amount of meat in return, because metal takes a lot longer to absorb

[sweet solar]

to really let them expand by using humans to hold territory and the navis nobilitie be their pilots too

[charred bridge]

They definitely didnt stay teamed up the moment the tyranids were gone

[vital barn]

yeah, the Necrons just fucked off

I think they have shot some necrons before, though

[thin ibex]

farsight enclaves survived the nids only by virtue of an earth caste science team making some macguffin delayed anti nid virus and then sacrificing themselves while infected with it to take out the hive fleet; was one of the big heroic The Eight moments

had a heroic 'buy time for them to finish the virus' bits

[sweet solar]

tau tech highliners with human navis nobilite navigators carrieng holds full of non-warp-capable traditional tau ships

[charred bridge]

My favorite chaos nid kill is when Nurgle infested a planet in a hive fleet's path so bad that non of their bioforms could survive sampling the upper atmosphere to be able to study and adapt to it

Conversely Gorgon making a tyranid disease based bioweapon so bad it melted even the Death Guard to the bone if they were in the area.

[sweet solar]

in like ~20 years I want to see a story where the tau get a tyranid fleet-kill by getting a hive mind cluster like a dominatrix or something, with a nagi

"friends not food :)"

[vital barn]

I'm not even sure the kill-norn-queen-to-win lore is a thing anymore

how exactly nids work has not been talked about much in recent editions

[sweet solar]

oh killing it isnt, the fleet automatically makes a new one when the signal drops iirc being hte last lore thing

but if you get enough nagi worms into it to frienderize the bugger then the signal never drops

also god i still love the old dominatrix model

[vital barn]

making big expensive bioforms is presumably more metabolically taxing than making their mass in gaunts, but that's all we know

because if it wasn't they would just respond to all resistance like they responded to that one Avatar of Khaine

[stark cypress]

I know it's just a me thing

but it honestly would be so funny if there's a DAOT remnant out there just watching everything happening right now and going "Nope. Nope. Nope. Fuck that. We're not touching that."

[charred bridge]

There probably was, a bio magos during DAOT must have been wild

[stark cypress]

Yeah

[charred bridge]

DAOT humanity imo seems like it gasses up humans too much, like the one STC ship that just one shots a fleeing eldar ship by superimposing it with its future self at a slight delay and was a colony ship not a warship.

[vital barn]

the Speranza is not just any kind of ship, quite frankly

it's the size of Australia

that's like calling the Necron World Engine "just a city"

I'm not surprised a craftworld-sized DAOT vessel can shoot some random eldar cruiser

[charred bridge]

At least War in Heaven the races involved have been around a very long time

[sour sequoia]

misc is gonna hate me for this but DAOT cultmech stuff bothers me way less than a lot of lore since we at least know they're a dumbfuck cargo cult now lmao

[vital barn]

IMO everyone should get to play in the dumb megaship leagues

they're fun

also it really doesn't take millenia to build those things, Terra was throwing up orbital plates that size in M30 and taking them down again in a few years

[stark cypress]

Crazy idea: Men of Iron remnants that have been watching and constantly bemoaning the state of humanity.

Rift happens and then they basically decide "Screw it. Might as well die trying something good for once."

Men of Iron 1: Okay, so, the humans are about to be wiped out again.

Men of Iron 2: When have they not been close to getting wiped out.

Men of Iron 1: I don't know. It looks pretty bad.

Men of Iron 2: ...Let's go save as many of those idiots as we can.

[vital barn]

I admit I really hate the core interpretation of Admech as "these guys know nothing and are fundamentally idiots" because the far cooler and more accurate "these guys are a bunch of stereotypical cultivators hoarding their techniques and pretending they're hotter shit than they are, but they do have actual game" is right there

but lately like 3 more factions that are just Admech But Better have been introduced so I don't think we're getting that

[charred bridge]

Youd say that but 5 Necron Shroud Class Light Cruisers almost touched down on Mars and the entire planet was firing its full power at this intruder some did manage to land but didnt really survive much longer than that

Youd think a planet of Mars deep in the Imperium could take out 5 crafts

[vital barn]

Necron stealth is pretty fucking good, and the Speranza is significantly above your average Admech gear

[charred bridge]

Necron craft, who the necrons fought a war against the Eldar by proxy of fighting Old Ones

[floral herald]

This seems like a youtube account of it haha

[charred bridge]

What does that mean

[vital barn]

that is also from Necrons 3rd edition

which is before even newcrons IIRC

they still had Pariahs

[floral herald]

I think it's kind of central to the admech that they're a bunch of non-empirical cultists who don't believe in learning but there's space for them to have found some really effective tricks

[vital barn]

their core civilisational concept is the Quest For Knowledge

[floral herald]

There's a bunch of extra details there that I don't recall being in the original writing on it

[vital barn]

they don't have the modern scientific method but saying they don't believe in learning stuff is against basically all the lore we have besides toaster memes

they just believe all the stuff worth learning has been already learnt and written down so they go about it in wack ways and spend ages schisming over what knowledge "counts"

[floral herald]

They don't believe in learning because a core tenet of their faith is that everything is already known and you just need to dig it up or otherwise recover it

[vital barn]

also every third planet in all of 40k fiction has some kind of Admech research facility on it

they are clearly doing lots of research even if most of it is silly

if they had no idea what they fuck they were doing ever then basically every Admech POV wouldn't be some guy netrunning in the background of all his other activities

[rose hill]

greetings, varlet

[vital barn]

ah, found the mars raid

it is literally one paragaph long

this is it, that's all the lore

a detailed naval battle this is not

[floral herald]

God wtf is the formatting of codex necrons 3rd ed

I think there's a similar thing mentioned in the 5e core rulebook

But with even less detail

[vital barn]

personally I just assume they used some Necron teleporting/stealth/dimensional folding nonsense to pop in right in orbit, which they are known to do occasionally, but I admit this is basically on zero evidence because there is none either way

[floral herald]

My recollection of the 5e blurb is that they basically reactionless drive'd in at speed and briefly fought some stuff

[vital barn]

I will locate it

but re: Admech in general, I kind of loathe them being the sole faction defined by being memetically incompetent

[floral herald]

Man I forgot about some of these

[vital barn]

like, hubristic, schismatic, convinced they know more than they do, sure, but nobody goes up to the Thousand Sons or whoever and goes "ah, they're clearly shit wizards because they can't get on and are in over their heads"

[floral herald]

I don't think I ran into people breaking the chain teleportation rule

[vital barn]

they can still very much warp bolt your face off

no instances of the words "Mars", "Noctys", "Sol", "Mechanicus" in the 5th ed codex

[floral herald]

Necrons were admittedly one of the most boring armies to fight on their 3rd ed codex

[pastel rampart]

6 warrior squads, 3 monoliths, lord on destroyer. Repeat.

[floral herald]

I saw some other stuff like Wraiths but mostly yeah

You had to spam warriors or phase out would fuck you lol

[vital barn]

yeah, cannot find it anywhere in there

this may literally just be one paragraph of "isn't that funny" in 3rd ed, back before necrons became sapient or interesting

[pastel rampart]

I'd see destroyers fairly often, wraiths less commonly, but nothing else. No point in taking anything else.

Admittedly a number of 3e cron lore got changed.

[floral herald]

It's kind of funny how in retrospect I think a lot of the necron lore changes are smaller than they looked because chatty lords were around for a long time

[sour sequoia]

okay in defense of my prior comments, I also say this about thousand sons

they are funny primarily because they get bodied 24/7

[vital barn]

I extend the principle to literally any faction that has a core trait of Getting Hubristic With It

[sour sequoia]

and every single tabletop fight is 'catastrophic loss for the chapter'

[vital barn]

which is like, fucking everyone

except maybe the Guard, who generally know they're fucked

[floral herald]

I thought the part where Yvraine fixed the Rubric in front of Ahriman's face and then shanked the guy was kinda funny

[vital barn]

feuding with other bits of your faction over dumb stuff: great fun

[floral herald]

Possibly the most interesting thing Yvraine has done too

[vital barn]

your entire faction permanently tripping over its own dick and being fundamentally defined by their inability to do anything: not good

see also Deebs/Sidereals in Exalted 2e and kind of the KTB in Lancer, because apparently I only decide to pick favourites who this is a relevant complaint for

[sour sequoia]

I know you for this yes

[thin ibex]

Admech needs a couple total wins and a lot more like... closer wins. Though honestly their dex should've given them more glazing

[vital barn]

the Admech is a "functional" society wildly swinging between clarketech and cargo cult because it's cool, the same way that a Space Marine was not made the size of a fridge carrying a chainsaw sword because it was sensible and realistic for them to be as effective as they are

[brittle salmon]

Meanwhile my favourite blorbos are the Guard, we like the way this sucks

[thin ibex]

Also more cool electric priesthood lore

[vital barn]

you know the electropriests actually collected some Ws

Mech lost in 3/5 of the books and short stories they got when their first codex dropped, one of the two exceptions was the electropriests dabbing on a couple of Deathwatch killteams that showed up to politely ask about all this xenotech

[vital barn]

Pariah Nexus was actually kind of fun because it was the Necrons and the Admech going "aha, we understand our supertech better than you" and starting a game of superweapon pinball which nobody came out of looking particularly healthy, so points there

that is a good way to do the throw-all-the-archaeotech trope

[pale narwhal]

I should read more about Pariah Nexus

[vital barn]

it was almost literally the "shit this wizard war is fucked" meme

also firmly cemented that Emperor Faith Powers get to ignore warp dampening for unclear reasons, but are also boosted by the everyone-gets-psykers factor of the Great Rift

although that was already in Plague War to some extent

[thin ibex]

I wonder what the silent king does just trucking around with full knowledge of the unused necron mega arsenal

That he like deleted from every other necron mind

"Do I think in gonna need these? Nah... right?"

[vital barn]

still faintly surprised they made him a tabletop character

and that hs model is "a normal necron but with huuuuuge ears"

[thin ibex]

Tangent, I've never beaten my buddy who plays WE as tau. Do I give it another go or try a match as votann or space wolves?

I do think he should really be like... an emperor level entity in a physical science kinda way

Cause he's like... arguably the most significant character in the setting

[vital barn]

I am honestly slightly bored of emperor-level super entities after all the primarchs and demon primarchs, but I don't think my case for nerfing Emps retroactively until he can once again be picked up and thrown around by a very large Ork is going to work after TEATD

[floral herald]

I think the Silent King is sort of weird since I think in terms of publication history he starts off as the notational king of the necrons and then makes a bunch of people mad by working with Dante in 5e for some reason

And then later on gets the sort of mythos of being Super Crazy

[vital barn]

new plan, we rebalance the entire setting around Ghazkhull, no character gets to be more than 1.5 Ghazkhulls in setting effect

[broken dew]

prophet of the Waaagh time

[vital barn]

that means that whenever anyone wants to let a primarch blow up a planet with a punch they have to write Orks for a bit first

(and I suppose Yarrick gets powerscaled into infinity retroactively but hey, he's dead like the 10 alpha legion guys who ambushed Gman once pre-power creep)

[thin ibex]

Once upon a time a squad of ten marines was a reasonably believable threat to a Primarch of they were veterans and skilled

[vital barn]

yeah, they sneak into his palace and ambush him in his shitty ceremonial armour, and then would have won if the last one hadn't stopped to monologue while shoving a gun in downed RG's face

which seems reasonably plausible to me

of course fifty books later we have Sanguinius casually A-moving titan legios out of the way and Guilliman fighting several great unclean ones at once so those ten guys are now Alpharius' Strongest Soldiers

[thin ibex]

Sang im kinda ok with Justin cause he was fate powered or whatever. But that shouldn't be a Primarch norm

I guess g man has like the ultimate demon killing sword

Cause it's the 3 armed emperors sword

[vital barn]

Given there's now his lightning claw, his sword and his shield after Lion got the last one out of nowhere, I think he does have three arms now

They're going to be out of weapons by the time they bring the rest back and Corax, Khan and Dorn will have to share the claw

[thin ibex]

Nah the emperor has like 15 arms

Gotta get the emperors spear in there

[vital barn]

I think Valdor had that

also Russ, so two spears

Jagganothing it

[thin ibex]

And the emperors bolt pistol. The emperors bolt gun, the emperors axe

The emperors club

The emperors quarterstaff

[vital barn]

Can't give anyone the armour because they can't find which of the crux terminatii have an apocryphal chunk of it in

[thin ibex]

The emperors small hammer and his big hammer

[vital barn]

The emperor's cape works

[floral herald]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

what if it was sharpened

[thin ibex]

The emperors knuckle dusters

[vital barn]

The emperor's boot knife, not to be confused with the athame

[thin ibex]

The emperors finger pistol

[vital barn]

I sometimes wonder how many irreplaceable 40k relics are in the possession of Some Guy

It's not like any faction has perfect relicovision

somewhere the Emperor's Camping Chair is sitting in a basement in a terran slum after someone who survived the Siege took a random object out of the Sanctum

[thin ibex]

Some Guy has like... the emperors own panini toaster

[broken dew]

The emperors white plastic lawn chair

[sour sequoia]

lemme page my buddies because montana meta is 40% World Eaters by volume

and honestly they all started autoconceding against two of our tau guys

Mont'Ka fuckin bodies em I know, aux cadre can do work if you put in some reps on positioning

[vital barn]

eventually the Necrons will have all their phase blades back because the Assassinorum keep feeding more Callidus Assassins to Obyron, so those will normalise to their rightful owners at least

[thin ibex]

It's mostly my being bad at positioning giving them an in. I need to utilize blockers better than I do

[sour sequoia]

I can give you Bryan Scherrer's patented solution

[thin ibex]

I'm frequently misplaying against Unga bunga

[sour sequoia]

18 fucking rampagers

[thin ibex]

My go to is aux, but I would be running a mechanized list just for vibes

[sour sequoia]

nobody says 'haha tau don't play half the game' up here anymore because bryan scherrer has already concussed them with gorillas

[thin ibex]

In Mont ka

[vital barn]

I love that kroot are real again

[thin ibex]

He wouldn't be running his same list either so there would be unknowns

[broken dew]

Yummy callidus assassins

[thin ibex]

I think he'd be trying out the jackhal detachment

[vital barn]

I believe he's killed like seven

although that was Zandrekh saying that so he might have been talking about something else entirely

[sour sequoia]

there's like two WE detaches you need to be scared of, daemonkin and zerker band

the champions one has some tech but its more a specialist list

[thin ibex]

I remember that old lore story where an assassin stabs the deceiver, not knowing it's him, and hes just like "oh thanks I'll go ahead and take that back"

Yeah neither of us are hard core, for me is just like, do I want a rematch with the same factions or do I try one of the ones im interested in

Other ones*

Cause part of me is like... in my friend group, I'm almost undefeated as tau, except against my WE buddy. Given we're all kinda unpractised and many are newer, but i wanna score a win anyway lol

[vital barn]

Assassins are being carried so hard by that Aun'va kill

I wonder how bad their success rate is on screen because it does not seem high in any sense

They're very good at almost killing things

I suppose Kurze too, but he basically let it happen

[pale narwhal]

They also lost 3/4 assassins getting to him, only the culexus got to him in the end

[vital barn]

Weren't the other three going for different targets?

The three assassins all died, but I vaguely remember Farsight farsighting all over an eversor

[thin ibex]

As far as I know we've got a random inquisitor killed on hammer and bolter, canonical kills on Curze and Aun'va. That's all I got off the top of my head

I think we have a few good snipes from the vindicare but not on any super notable characters

[floral herald]

Broadly speaking the assassins do a good job when it’s their POV and a bad job when it’s not

[thin ibex]

Oh wait weren't there like 10 vindicares who sniped a former high lord in that one novel with the custodes named guy

[candid socket]

tbf, the one who managed to kill Curze succeeded mainly because Curze let them. Straight up told his Astartes not to stop them

[junior summit]

who has the emperor's fork?

[junior summit]

Kingmaker has 3 assassins saving a world since they're PoV characters

the vindicare kills a Knight Castellan

[pale narwhal]

might have been

who would the fourth target have been? farsight, shadowsun, aun'va, who else? darkstrider doesn't feel like. important enough to have an assassin sicced on him

[rocky shale]

This is what the assassins detachment for imperial Agents should feel like XD

If I'm paying 155pts for a vindicare it needs feel like 40% of a knight damnit

Not that this profile isn't hilarious

Let me take 3 of these GW you cowards

[dense idol]

does heavy do literally anything when the to-hit is already 2+?

cancel out other negative modifiers, I guess

[thin ibex]

That's about it yeah

[mental birch]

40k nerf ehh loss of sustained on one guy

Is fine

Sad but like not vital

[vital barn]

Mechanicus going up in points cost at last, I might actually have an entire army now

less than I expected them to, honestly

[past sphinx]

Now this is violent

[pastel rampart]

As it should be

[broken dew]

i sure do love terminators

[vital barn]

I thought for a second that that guy on the right was going full santa beard

but no, it's one of those weird halfhelms

[tired cairn]

GSC didn't get mentioned at all in the summary, ha (they have no changes)

[past sphinx]

their already perfect

a special ability in the grotmas wolves is to just take a normal termie capt, fucking hilarious

"hey boss maybe we should let the brand new terminator unit have leaders that arent epic heroes?" "nah what would be the point"

and an armor of contempt

[vital barn]

Grimnar-themed AOC is very funny

"yeah, we can only do this because Wolf Dad is here, if he wasn't we'd be fucked"

I'm going to be a grognard again for a second and say that major army elements revolving around always taking your faction's unique mega leader is mildly distasteful, but at least it makes more sense for Space Wolves than for Emperor's Children

where Fulgrim is rather more of a big deal than a cool chapter master

[rocky shale]

Ouch eldar gutted in this dataslate

[vital barn]

I'd say fire dragon stocks falling but from my admittedly ancient memories of Eldar I'm not sure what else does their job

Wraithguard, I guess?

no idea how those work nowadays

[floral herald]

I think there’s better examples than EC since Fulgrim is mostly a 4fun model

Maybe the detachment makes him ok

[vital barn]

Cawl is perhaps the biggest example I can think of, but I'm giving EC extra points here for having both Fulgrim and Bile-specific detachments

although one of them is Chaos Space Marines not the actual Emperors' Children

Fulgrim's Court is in 30k as well, but it is entirely a meme detachment

[soft willow]

Bile might have belonged to that legion, but boy howdy he's all in on the whole "The others are corrupted by chaos but I'm not" bit.

[tired cairn]

Mangus and thousands sons. Unless they fixed that a dataslate or two ago

[vital barn]

along with basically every other chaos space marine, admittedly

[floral herald]

Angron was pretty much mandatory for weaters for a while iirc as well

[vital barn]

deep breath
Ahriman Abbadon Talos Fabius Cypher Huron..... etc. etc.

hell, Mortarion's still kind of coping about it now, and he's a giant nurgle demon with aftermarket wings

[rocky shale]

Fire dragons are so good you still take them at basically any cost

Your alternatives so S12+ shooting are fire prisms, wraithguard/lord/knight, and random vehicles with bright lances

Most of which are fairly anemic

[vital barn]

my brain insists there's a difference between "this named character is so good it's an autotake" and "large parts of your army rules literally turn off without bringing him and him only" but I admit I have no good reason for this opinion besides grumbling

[floral herald]

No I mean he was good but also their army rule literally had a “bring dead Angron back to life” move

[vital barn]

wait they did

lmao

incredible

[floral herald]

Which made him insanely points efficient

[vital barn]

you couldn't sub in a bloodthirster or something?

[floral herald]

This was 9e

(Angron was an 18 wound model)

[vital barn]

this displeases the Misc

well, I like killing Primarchs with chumps, I just dislike it when they show up to every game and keep coming back with no stakes

[floral herald]

I think this is probably the most egregiously baked in a faction lead named character has been in a 40K army

[vital barn]

very probably

I admit my mental image of 40k WE is very much Angron Delivery System

the cult legions are all kind of sparse

and the demon primarchs are all so cracked that it immediately enters the realm of "the only thing that allows your 80 guardsmen and 6 tanks to be on this table is Emperor-grade plot armour" rather than the usual "ahaha I killed like a platoon of Black Legion, get fucked Abby"

[tepid stratus]

Death guard are pretty fleshed out but yeah the rest are propped up by borrowed CSM units (even if barely the case for EC)

[vital barn]

after a while it goes through the fun zone of killing named characters with chumps and out the other side

less so in 30k, since 30k basically operates on the understanding that the tabletop primarchs are early-heresy pre-powercreep so they absolutely can get ganked by 10 angry angry terminators or a bunch of elite snipers

the one exception is Horus Ascended, who is clearly signposted as Nonsense by the fact he costs as much as a Titan

[thin ibex]

Something I think about is that in lore, space marines are so capable that like 1 squad can tactically take on hundreds of guys and even tanks thanks to speed, violence and other options. On the table that leman russ demolisher is going to eat your space marine squad for breakfast and ask for more

[vital barn]

there are also depictions of squads of marines getting ragdolled like Total War dudes by aforementioned tanks, so it's slightly less odd

Angron meanwhile spends Arks of Omen teleporting around like a late-stage xianxia protag and soloing fleets

[thin ibex]

Is just one of those things where lore and 40k is a little wobbly. How do so many marines live to be centuries old when every battle has them getting scythed down in droves against basically inferior foes

Joe plasma gunner just like the op stopper plugging space marines left and right. He has exactly 2 hours of training on that weapon

Brother Maximus Deltoidius trained for longer than Joe's entire life, is equipped with the most expensive gear in the Imperium, is enhanced beyond human capability.

But Joe's plasma gun cares about none of that

Or Jimmy Heavy Bolter Sponson Guy, he's also making a mockery of the Veterans of the Long War. 10k years of non stop war ends today bucko. Jimmy can't even clearly see you through his analogue view finder

[past sphinx]

its the most boring option they couldve had but hey there some interesting things in there i guess

[tepid stratus]

Funny enough Fulgrim is the only daemon primarch we don't see fight in a new book. Although he can convince an emperor's champion he's getting visions from big E from halfway across the galaxy

[vital barn]

Talos Nightlords even says something like "yeah, we call ourselves Long War Vets but look, it's only been two centuries for us and we're kinda fucked at this point"

since they do take quite a few losses in each winning fight that trilogy

[spice flicker]

Now that both of them are 125 points, how do you feel about haruspex vs screamer-killers?

[sour sequoia]

There’s not been any super clear data lately pointing to a stagnant meta for the faction—every single detach was used multiple times at worlds, the best performer at worlds was actually Brood Brothers by a teenager from Daytona

Versus Death Guard Summer where Host of Ascension is cranking 68% winrate

[vital barn]

you know that sounds like the kind of place you'd expect a prodigy baldoid player to be from

[sour sequoia]

Tucker Rickey is very powerful

But like w/ the last round of changes everything is in a Decent Spot, I moved off host but its still essentially fine afaik, final day/biosanctic are very strong, xenocreed has play but nobody’s solved it yet (maybe I’ll be the one ) outlander got nerfed by points but actually the existence of challenger cards is what kept it down so those dying means its so back for dirtbike objective ratting

[rocky shale]

The elf server is in chaos

Transport bullshit is dead

+100pts to basically every meta list

Refugees flock to goofier detachments in droves

Wraiths still suck

Imperial Agents server is once again posting "we're a perfect faction with no flaws which is why we got no changes"

[sour sequoia]

Death Guard and Knights players weeping in the streets. Its beautiful

[charred bridge]

Necron warriors haven't changed for like 65 million years therefore they are the pinnacle of infantry

[rocky shale]

390 point despoiler in a world with 415pt tyrants is so goofy

I still think you slam 3

[sour sequoia]

Maybe they’ll memorize more than a single weapon profile this time

[rocky shale]

No they'll drop a BoN

Ruinator and despoiler down are good changes but I still think neither see play

Ruinator needs to be like 300pts and have executioner drop by 10 or so since they have synergy before either sees play

Oh and rotigus +15pts is relevant

[vital barn]

the Imperial Agents actually have players as a faction rather than an ally grab-bag?

[rocky shale]

Yes and they're all sickos

They had like 3 tournament regulars even prior to having a codex with detachments

They were literally playing with just core stratagems, no army rule, no detachment rule

[vital barn]

they have an army rule?

I thought they were just cheaper

[rocky shale]

They don't now (other than the ability to swap out assassins)

But they do have detachment rules and stratagems

[pale narwhal]

Ooh thammer assault termies look spicy now

Same points, +1 to hit

[spice flicker]

Agents seem like a fun army and I've theorycrafted for them before

Wish they had a proper army rule, more vehicles, and better anti-armor options though.

[past sphinx]

thinking about agents is a lot more fun than playing agents

[spice flicker]

Painting them (and any other horde army) sounds horrible tbh.

[vital barn]

I had considered bringing the Rogue Trader Entourage in my Admech army to get strat redeploy and infiltrators without running Hunter Cohort

[past sphinx]

their great if you happen to have like a few things of sisters and the kill teams laying around

just bad to try to play

[vital barn]

but it requires me to bring like 200pts of chump voidsmen and can only infil them and strat reserves basic skitarii

and I need my skitarii to do aura stuff

ranger Scout and Infiltrators infiltrator will have to do

[past sphinx]

its perfect if you own a deathwatch army /s

[spice flicker]

Seems fun in crusade...Wonder if IA will still be around in 11th though?

[rocky shale]

I saw a potentially real release schedule for 11th codecies that did still have one

[soft willow]

I think they’ll remain, gotta sell the Kill Team models.

[spice flicker]

True

[soft willow]

Speaking of have a list:

[spice flicker]

Hopefully give us more access to vehicles and synergy please.

[soft willow]

JK list too large and I don't have time to find a place to link it from.

[sour sequoia]

The likeliest fate I think is IA, Deathwatch, GK become an actual inquisition faction

[soft willow]

That's how they started, but there's a lot of detachments in the GK book so I don't know we ever see it go back to that.

[rocky shale]

I'd be really happy with that tbh

[past sphinx]

witchhunters coming on back

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/KFePc/20ac81bc80.png

Having to do a crash course in OpenScad just to make some custom movement trays.

[broken dew]

man i sure wonder what horrid book they could have read

https://tenor.com/view/bro-is-finished-cooked-finished-dog-closing-eyes-dog-with-eyes-closed-gif-8933440936102921947

[thin ibex]

tau changes seem generally pretty light

didn't actually look at the surge points drop

but thats prtty funny

[deft crest]

Can I get a link to the updated data slate? The one that the article has isnt updated

Or perhaps a missing something

[thin ibex]

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_10-12_wh40k_core&key_balance_dataslate-lqd1qcpyiu-ddfa18wqzg.pdf

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_10-12_wh40k_core&key_munitorum_field_manual-wpdwqnjjzs-gqqnw0mqqc.pdf

[vital barn]

tonight I am teaching myself how Xenos work in 10e

Ghaz is a very fun unit

I like the inclusion of the dedicated level 1 goblin who can just donate his 2+ invuln to a unit of meganobz like an incredibly powerful version of the Horus Heresy 1e artificer sarge

Makari best boy

[thin ibex]

ghaz feels like a decently well done big important boi unit

[vital barn]

he feels more like a Big Warboss than the old Primarch But Green, I think

I like it at first glance, there's fun stuff going on there

[thin ibex]

like on one hand, he should absolutely be at primarch tier considering his like green messiah-ing and all the war going on; but also primarchs prolly shoulda been done more like him

[vital barn]

he is basically at the same stat bracket as Gully and Lion, it's just that a regular warboss is much larger relative to him than a Captain is relative to the large adult sons

Cawl is in the same zone, he just doesn't melee that hard and instead has a big gun and lower points cost

his abilities are even almost exact parallels to Guillimans

[thin ibex]

i think i more mean there being some intent to be combo'd with other units rather than a monster with auras

[vital barn]

yeah, the 30k Primarchs are also unit leaders and as such slightly more reasonable

(only slightly, they are extremely unkillable but also huge overinvestments most of the time because they basically just mark a unit as unmeleeable)

[floral herald]

https://youtu.be/U3NWP5n5p4w

This is kinda neat

[stark cypress]

I listened to the new Ad Ric episode

https://tenor.com/view/bored-smoking-cigarette-smoke-focused-gif-15242212

https://tenor.com/view/that-was-too-far-charlie-smiling-friends-that-was-over-the-line-excessive-gif-5759549709772171001

[runic swallow]

What book was it

[stark cypress]

...Inquistor/Inquistion War trilogy.

[runic swallow]

Huh, I can’t remember if I’ve heard of those

[stark cypress]

That's great

That's good

Those books are terrible

[runic swallow]

Lmao

[stark cypress]

They are fucking terrible

I had to listen to censored quotes on the way home when they were reading excerpts from that abomination of a book series.

Please! They need to pay Possum for this!

[runic swallow]

When is it from?

[stark cypress]

The books? The 90's

The newest episode of Ad Ric? Today

[runic swallow]

Yeah I meant the books

[charred bridge]

Jaq Draco series

Idk the actual name it just features him

And his extremely problematic ways even for an inquisitor

[stark cypress]

Do not listen to the new Ad Ric episode if you are squeamish or very uncomfortable with explicit sexuality.

I fucking cringed so hard when they started reading the quotes.

Thank fuck the Black Library has better editorial standards compared to 90's Black Library.

[charred bridge]

To describe the books

[charred bridge]

SA too, and they're quoting directly from passages

It's bad

[stark cypress]

Yeah

Yeah

I'll be honest I think the direct quotes have actually made me sworn off sex.

[charred bridge]

I'm not joking when I say, it seems like a self insert fetish fanficn

Truly is the worst 40k book I've even heard about

[stark cypress]

Or at least have sorta done a "Okay, yeah, it's sorta a bit gross now. Let's not think about it."

This is honestly how I was on the drive home while listening to it.

https://tenor.com/view/cali9-gif-9320352

[charred bridge]

There are some funny moments as astropath who literally shit himself too hard to send a message

So jaq has to use a planetary governor's astropath

Who jaq takes back an order for an exterminatus, but planetary astropath sends it anyways cause she hates the planet.

Oh and he just sneaks into Terra as an inquisitor and gets to the throne of the god emperor and speaks to him, who says scouring his memories was a treat (he had sexed with a calladus assassin)

[stark cypress]

Man, no wonder Alfa Busa and company just only did Inquisitor.

The other two books are dumb and detrimentally horny.

How the fuck can a non-modified human use Dread armor.

What

[broken dew]

Like a dreadnought????

[stark cypress]

Yes

[charred bridge]

Oh and the dreadnought human did surgery on someoneb

They came to him cause he could do a delicate procedure not even a Medicae could

And he stayed in the dreadnought while doing it

[broken dew]

????????

Dreadnoughts, known for their dexterity, truly

[charred bridge]

Also Eldrad manipulated Jaq so Jaq would join the Illuminati

[stark cypress]

Yes

The Illuminati was a thing in this

Early 40K was fucking wild

[charred bridge]

They really let anyone write back then

[stark cypress]

The timeline where GW hired Greg Bear to do writing

Huh, honestly I wonder how that would have gone.

[charred bridge]

Oh and last thing how could I forgot the Slaaneshi demonette called Slishy

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Dreadnought Given that the first Inquisitor book was 1990 this was technically still how dreads worked.

[charred bridge]

The wild west

The good old days when Dreadnoughts could dance

[pastel rampart]

So much of early 40k is just weird kitchen sink stuff.

[still warren]

Wait like illuminati as in the cabal or the actual illuminati?

[charred bridge]

Actually named Illuminati

[still warren]

Amazing

[charred bridge]

Oh and there was a group of extremist Illuminati Ordo malleus called Ordo Hydra

Who's plan was uh, use a warp entity to just kill all of humanity (originally they claimed to revive the emperor using this warp entity by spreading/cultivating its eggs across the imperium)

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Illuminati

They had several tiers of inner circles

[still warren]

Inner circle deluxe

[stark cypress]

Secret Inquisitor

[charred bridge]

Illuminati was a secret even from the Emperor and some inquisitors were a part of it, lowest rung believed the entity would just kill all no humans in the imperium where it was seeded, next circle were using the warp Hydra to revive the emperor, next secret circle wanted to replace the emperor on the astronomicon with this entity that they control as per the Emperor's will of course, and the most secretest circle just wanted to kill all humans at once

Jaq speed ran all of these to the top

And was a member before the book

[stark cypress]

Custodes: Yes, Captain-General. We caught another one. Yes, it's one of those Inquisitors. Mhmm. Mhmmmm. I see. Okay, lads! Pack it in! The Blacks and Palatines are dealing with this!

[charred bridge]

Custodes: it's above your pay grade
Emperor: tf you mean I am the emperor of mankind

[stark cypress]

Fists: What does that even mean!? He is above you all!

[charred bridge]

If I were a writer in the 90s I probably could have written a 40k book so bad people just meme on it decades later

[thin ibex]

Itd certainly be a badge

Big "you're the worst pirate I've ever heard of"

but you have heard of me

[stark cypress]

GW should have Black Library do what CGL did...Make an explicitly kissy 40K book.

[charred bridge]

Basically the Infinite and the Divine with kissing

[pale narwhal]

they should make an Infinite and the Divine yaoi version with kissing

[charred bridge]

They should remake Trazyn and Orikan models but secretly theyre posed in a way that if you put them next to each out theyre making out

[upper bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-money-futurama-gif-6882124657810317443

[charred bridge]

New headcannon was the necron did want to punish Trazyn and Orikan by making them work together but they wanted to see the toxic yaoi romantic comedy because its the most entertaining thing theyve seen in a couple dozen millenas

[sour sequoia]

Fwiw Ghaz currently is lord commander smashfuck

Ghaz and the boyz in da trukk on green tide has threat radius of home objective to enemy home on any deployment, flying through walls and models, lots of offensive buffs and a painboy

[thin ibex]

He's like uncomplicatedly good

[past sphinx]

my heart wants more prone models

i think the last ones standing are/where catachan snipers

why?

because i hate consistent base sizes in a unit

if i where to gain my true destiny in this world become some sort of wargaming stalin i would create such anxiety, ever opened packet of bases would only go to one specific model in the unit

mixed infantry and Cav squads with heavy weapons

truely a wrathful god i would be

sometimes i would just have two random guys on the same slightly larger bases because their friends

[soft willow]

So you’d copy GW?

[past sphinx]

id invent new shapes

star bases

rhomboid's

one thats just really long

a perfect sphere

[soft willow]

So you would continue what GW started?

[past sphinx]

to places they could only dream of

[desert jay]

Just do all the bases where it's like someone selected the model's footprint in GIMP and used "expand selection"

[pale narwhal]

I would make a base that precisely fits in the middle of six other circular bases and forms a complete perfect flat surface between them

[desert jay]

Including a reverse bevel? Fucked up and evil

[pale narwhal]

including a reverse bevel

[vital barn]

I can see the murder radius, but I am still trying to figure out how you get a painboy in a squad that already has a leader nevermind figured it out. Didn't think you could get 20 boyz, Ghaz and a painboy in one battlewagon, though.

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1448682926068731934/Screenshot_20251211_152658_Firefox.jpg?ex=693c269c&is=693ad51c&hm=87b08eea684854972dc748d24d42d0aed81191b2740502252d3e96bb8db65d8f&

[tired cairn]

Can demon summoners use multiple warp juices on a single demon?

[charred bridge]

Yesn't mayben't

[vital barn]

a friend has painted a very nice Crimson Hunter

I was unaware those guys were technically Aspect Warriors

stuck on the path of Top Gun

[jaunty dawn]

I think theres a couple shrines that are pilots

And then the other pilots are like similar to tankers etc

[tired cairn]

There must be so many Eldar paths

[charred bridge]

Random Theorhetical what would be the best/worst part of 40k for Henry Cavill to star in with a as faithful as it gets recreation

[rocky shale]

Henry cavill as a ratling

[desert jay]

Crimson Hunter Pheonix Lord could go hard actually

[tired cairn]

🤔 Top Gun but it's about Crimson Hunters

Do you think Eldar have an equivalent for topless beach volleyball?

[vital barn]

wuxia sect with planes would rock

[floral herald]

Obviously yes

[jaunty dawn]

Theres an eldar path who play all the topless beach volleyball on behalf of the other eldar lest they have too much fun

[upper canopy]

I've read Path of the Eldar and unironically yes.

Craftworlds have beaches

[tired cairn]

It is important for training the best dogfighters

[charred bridge]

This is a weird path for an Eldar but naked beach volleyball is a great test of willpower

[tired cairn]

So many fall to slannash on it 🙁

[charred bridge]

Its what actually gave birth to slaanesh, thousands of years of anime fanservice beach volleyball episodes but by pre-fall Eldar standards

[upper canopy]

Btw read Path of the Eldar

it's fucking hilarious

A guy locks himself in his room and cries for a month because his crush looked at their mutual childhood friend for .5 seconds longer than his art piece

Just stop reading right at the end

[charred bridge]

Most sane 40k romance

[little bay]

that is hilarious in a way

[charred bridge]

I love how many of the nobility are just so sensitive and unhinged

Planetary Governor just hires a hit on your just cause a starving servant was staring at their food more than admiring them is the kind of thing I could see them doing

[rocky shale]

Eldar nerf so bad I'm seeing people talking about running flyers

[main pagoda]

was the 40k tw stuff meant to get announced today

[floral herald]

Maybe

[little bay]

tw you mean the world?

i should stop with these horrid jokes

[still warren]

At the game awards so in 5+ hours from now

[tired cairn]

I hope they don't announce it and just make cryptic hints. Like talking about an army with forty thousand warhammers in TW: Medieval 3

(I do feel like AoS would be a better fit for TW)

[floral herald]

It 100% would

It’d be fuckin sick and would mean an AoS game which isn’t butt

[still warren]

They have to wait until tw 3 stops making money to lauch AoS to stay faithful to the tabletop

[tardy vault]

There's so many good AoS games waiting to be made and all we have is a mid at best RTS

[floral herald]

It’s tragic

[tardy vault]

Cities of Sigmar colony sim? A SCE souls-like? I don't know, a fucking IDK XCOM like where you have to plan raids for souls?

[still warren]

Or a soulbound crpg

[soft willow]

Best I can do is a bad VR game where you play a sigmarine.

[deft crest]

You got your digital game it was Shadespire

[tepid stratus]

A stormcast or vampire souls like is such an easy win but nobody seems to want to make one

[paper bluff]

Bloodborne like game just set in age of sigmar would be a winner

You could even set it in the realms of the dead and you've got your justification for a respawn, right there

Have the various races and factions as archetypes

[floral herald]

Or your character is Reforged

[paper bluff]

A caradon overlord gunslinger would be fun to play....

Well, maybe a start is one of the various races, and you can build into the factions and take stuff from them

[still warren]

Soulbound also has a built in explanation for respawns

[floral herald]

I guess there’s a ton of options haha

[paper bluff]

Just imagine the ways you would take on aspects of the deepkin

Oh wait i've got it

You're a soul that ended up in Shyish that nagash took and as you level up, you're remembering more of your past life and taking on aspects of who you were.

[still warren]

Kharadon Skylords game in the vein of drg

[charred bridge]

Kharadon but Ace Combat

Or Guns of Icarus and crew an airship with buds

Every one can get blimp jetpacks to navigate airships to repair externally or boarding actions

Clan Skyre makes good antagonist factions, good power fantasy shooting scores of their crafts

[past sphinx]

god i wanted that game to work well so badly 🙁

[charred bridge]

Yea unfortunately it was too niche and didnt work well with randos without VC

It was a very fresh experience

At a time iirc it was like grounded FPS game vaguely similar to CSGO release season

[past sphinx]

tzangor hit the fucking gym

dude works out at the library

pounding protein shakes and knowledge that would break mortal minds

[jaunty dawn]

Hes an ogroid

Big wizord

[floral herald]

https://preview.redd.it/pdgj6z2djad71.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7a9b1fb13f5b804604215b5465ab6cb86ec9818c

So this is the power of this book

[tepid stratus]

I fucking love the ogroids man. My favorite new species introduced in AOS. A destruction pantheon civilization that got too civilized and had the others gang up on them. The majority of their people turned to chaos out of spite over it

[charred bridge]

My lukewarm take but Skaven are my favorite faction in fantasy, they just have a very unique vibe and take on a fantasy race

Lizardman are a real nice take on a heavily religious society in fantasy

[topaz elk]

Chat, I have an idea for an ordo hereticus inquisitor

Where essentially they’re outwardly the “murder and burn everything that even resembles chaos” style of inquisitor as a cover

Being intentionally flashy and blunt so people will underestimate and miss their actual actions

In which they absolutely fall into the camp of collecting and utilizing chaotic relics in their investigations

[charred bridge]

The heretical Cain

[quaint compass]

The Bumbling Puritan
The Shrewd Radical

[charred bridge]

If are Puritan then you get killed to show your killer is powerful or as a lesson to another Puritan inquisitor. If you're a bit radical you become a protagonist that dies off screen but if you go too radical you lose the plot armor and died on screen

[sweet solar]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

TOTAL WAR 40K CONFIRMED

[charred bridge]

Let's gooooo

[floral herald]

I’m curious how it feels

It looked like the unit counts were really asymmetric?

[charred bridge]

Imagine if we got Custodes and there's like a half a dozen guys killing armies

[stark cypress]

THE PROPHECY!

FORETOLD!!!!

https://youtu.be/KVgCDqLTaJk

[rocky shale]

Vampire counts character spam was basically that

[upper bluff]

Honestly the idea of a totalwar faction that was just all hero units would be hell to balance but so cool

[rocky shale]

Aeldari in starting roster is all I care about

[main pagoda]

Well I'll be damned

[stark cypress]

Okay, so, Elder, Orks, Astrates, and Guard are definitely going to be the starting factions.

Unless it goes Eldar, Orks, and Imperium

[upper canopy]

I cannot believe that they made the trailer "Ultramarines stomp orks for 2 minutes"

[stark cypress]

...

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-warhammer40k-vraks-siege-of-vraks-death-korps-gif-20931228

[rocky shale]

I can

[still warren]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/4199910/Total_War_WARHAMMER_40000/

Steam

Total War: WARHAMMER 40,000

WAGE TOTAL WAR IN THE 41st MILLENNIUM
Total War’s award-winning fusion of turn-based strategy and colossal real-time battles descends into the grim, science-fantasy universe of Warhammer 40,000.…

Release Date

To be announced

[rocky shale]

It also probably cements the rumor that the 11th starter box will be SM vs orks

[past sphinx]

whelp

[main pagoda]

Can't wait for some actual long form gameplay

[still warren]

wait sorry meant to post the store images, there were at least 3 marine chapters

[past sphinx]

guess i can finally learn total war

fuck

[still warren]

unsure if it's army building

[main pagoda]

It looks incredibly different from anything else they've done

[upper canopy]

There's GOTTA be an army painter

[candid socket]

There is!

[still warren]

that's a siege map if I ever saw one

[stark cypress]

How many cosmetic packs are they gonna sell for the Guard

[upper canopy]

Also

[stark cypress]

Imagine if this is how we get the Praetorians and Steel Legion back

[upper canopy]

DoW 3 is so dead

[stark cypress]

You mean 4?

[upper canopy]

They killed that game before it even walked

Oh, yeah

same thing

[past sphinx]

DoW3 dead on arrival

DoW DoA

[stark cypress]

I mean

Here's the thing

Will TOW 40K let us use a primarch

No

But DOW will

[upper canopy]

That's not a point in DOW's favor

[stark cypress]

No, but everyone has been wanting a Primarch in one of the games.

[past sphinx]

yeah but those people are lame

[vital barn]

I was kind of hoping that Space Marines would just be a rare unit for Imperial Guard in the 40k TW

[past sphinx]

super units are never good for anything

[vital barn]

hey, at least given the way Warhammer has worked I might eventually get Admechfaction

[charred bridge]

Best we can do is Calgar again

[jaunty dawn]

It seems like theyre just doing space marine squad is equal to a big blob of orks or a imperial guard platoon

[main pagoda]

Makes sense

[stark cypress]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

Maybe 20+warlock for eldar to go in the middle

[stark cypress]

Like an Assault squad would kill so many Guardsmen.

[past sphinx]

one can only pray for ten to fifteen calgar variant options

calgar tech tree

[jaunty dawn]

It seems like an army painter to me though

[charred bridge]

15 flavors of Calgar having bad time

[still warren]

the campaign map?

or well early version

[stark cypress]

Preview of it at least

Please please let this have the Elysian Drop

Even as a DLC cosmetic

I WANT THE DROP TROOPERS

PLEASE SOMETHING ELSE BESIDES WW1 and WW2

[main pagoda]

So basing it off tww3 you have a high chance

[charred bridge]

Only drop dropods

[stark cypress]

I don't care. I want space FAMAS paratroopers

[charred bridge]

Most of them may be shot out of the air but that's a risk I'm willing to take to see them drop on someone

[charred bridge]

I wonder if psykers just have a chance to blow up

Or Orks I'm general

[jaunty dawn]

Is miscasting really that different in fantasy

[stark cypress]

_>

[main pagoda]

No

[stark cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-breathe-david-rose-david-dan-levy-schitts-creek-gif-5567600972171007330

[main pagoda]

So it'll just be flat out damage

[charred bridge]

Sad if want something like my psyker turns into a Daemon

Tactic of pushing my psyker in the backlines then warp edging to see if they turn into a Daemon hostile to all but moreso the enemy as they're in the middle of their army

[upper canopy]

Well at least I can have my dudes canonically kill the factions I don't like

[jaunty dawn]

It does seem weird to do dawn of war 4 and total war dawn of war at the same time

[main pagoda]

Different type of rts

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I guess it makes sense with gw licensing

[main pagoda]

Not much overlap between them other than 40k

[jaunty dawn]

I mean theres less of a difference when they bring the army size much closer to dawn of war scale than total war scale

But yeah

[main pagoda]

Well tw battle's are half the game

And tbf most 40k rts people are just going to buy both lmao

[stark cypress]

Yeah

I'm buying both

TW:40K is empire building/rts

DOW 4 is rts

[viral crest]

I'm probably going to end up waiting to see how TW40k reviews before making any promises but 4 I'm buying unless I can't afford it and it turns out to be absolutely atrocious or something

[main pagoda]

Did DoW get a release date?

[past sphinx]

wait no chaos faction?

what

the fuck??

[main pagoda]

It might be a release dlc

[stark cypress]

That

and this might be tied up with the 500 Worlds

And since the 500 worlds is 11th's jumping point

the starter set is Ultra's vs. Orks vs. Eldar probably.

[still warren]

chaos feels like the secret 5th faction to be revealed

[stark cypress]

Nah

Tau

This is gonna be the Tau's year

I can feel it

[main pagoda]

It's on form for the release date dlc faction not to be shown in the trailer

[stark cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/viorla-drone-swarm-warhammer40k-aliens-drones-pathfinder-gif-17564802

Oh man

Imagine a turn based 40K with this style

...I would buy it in a heartbeat

https://tenor.com/view/i-would-have-no-hesitation-mr-wednesday-american-gods-i-wouldnt-think-twice-without-any-doubts-gif-19151825

[sweet solar]

this is total war and the factions shown ARENT soup

[main pagoda]

Like they can't not do chaos and 4 factions is abit weak sauce

[sweet solar]

over years, every faction will likely be added, even if it takes multiple "game" releases at full price

[viral crest]

Is there going to be a 5th faction?

[main pagoda]

It's on brand

Did it for tww 1

[stark cypress]

Oh my god. Dream faction for me...Votan

[main pagoda]

Which was also chaos

[stark cypress]

Second dream faction is Enclave

Crack dream faction is Severan Dominate

[upper canopy]

They've done it for every Total War since

Rome 2?

I think

[sweet solar]

like its possible that if its popular enough non full factions will get added even

they did that repeatedly for total war warhammer

cathays first appearance was in total war warhammer

[jaunty dawn]

Total war 80k adds exodites

[sweet solar]

this shit is gonna run for like a decade

at LEEST

[jaunty dawn]

(Its 80k because its the sequel to 40k)

[viral crest]

Vampire Coast are like, almost entirely original to Total War, no?

[sweet solar]

nah

[main pagoda]

Yes and no

[jaunty dawn]

Mechanically yes

[sweet solar]

vampire coast was an old white dwarf expansion

[stark cypress]

Yeah, there's gonna be multiple factions for TW 40K.

[sweet solar]

a lot of the units are direct from their old list

for vampire coast

[still warren]

It's gonna run for the whole duration of every totalwarhammer game at least

[main pagoda]

But the WD was very limited

[sweet solar]

it was!

[stark cypress]

We have orks, Eldar, Marines, and Guard.

[sweet solar]

but it was there

[viral crest]

Ehhh yes but wasn't TW3 also released at the same time as GW's Fantasy Reboot was announced that also had Cathay as a faction?

[main pagoda]

It was like 5 units and luthor

[main pagoda]

No

It was years before iirc

[sweet solar]

nah, the models came later after cathay was confirmed popular

[stark cypress]

All we're missing are Tau, Enclave, Votan, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Necron's, and Chaos.

[sweet solar]

like we will probably eventually get shit like exodites and imperial agents

and then the LAST version might have a completly new faction

[stark cypress]

Oh and the Exodites

[viral crest]

Wow

Mean

[sweet solar]

cults

[viral crest]

Admech don't even count for a faction that's missing, huh

[stark cypress]

The Sisters

[sweet solar]

gold boys

[jaunty dawn]

Cathay and Kislev were teased for old world before TWW3 I thought

[stark cypress]

You toaster worshippers know what you did.

[jaunty dawn]

Before old world went into just put out models mode

[stark cypress]

Guard for life

[past sphinx]

dont forget chaos eldar, chaos androids, Hrud, Barghesi and of course

ZOAT

[stark cypress]

No

[still warren]

Very old lore but it was like Lord General Tso Chicken level like Nippon

[past sphinx]

ill pay 40 bucks for a zoat faction dlc day 1

[stark cypress]

Put them back in the canon closet where they belong!!!!!

[main pagoda]

I'm not quite sure how they would do the smaller imperial stuff like talons and imp agents

[sweet solar]

zoat would be like, a mercenery agent for imperial agents and stealer cults maybe

that works fien

fine

[stark cypress]

Maybe like Mercenaries I guess.

[main pagoda]

Yeah probably

[viral crest]

I feel like they would work best as like

special units that any Imperial faction could recruit?

[past sphinx]

Mercs/ regiments of renown

[viral crest]

Yeah, mercenaries for them

[stark cypress]

Please, please, please let this give the Lucifer Black's screentime.

[jaunty dawn]

You can probably just colour cadians like that yeah

[sweet solar]

knowing creative assembly they might genuinely roll imperial agents into a full faction like 8 years from now, including every named inquisitor and a new roster of pulled from the fiction non-guard imperials

[main pagoda]

Wonder what the cut off for big stuff will be

Knight scale based off the stompa

[sweet solar]

we saw stompa so-yeah probably

until at least the next game in the series

[past sphinx]

superheavys are almost 100% gonna be there in some way

baneblade totes, maybe not the SM one

[jaunty dawn]

Stompa is more than a knight

[past sphinx]

asterius?

[sweet solar]

small-scale titans would be a fantastic sequal hook without obliterating the engine

stompa is larger but worse

[past sphinx]

warhound would be bananas

[main pagoda]

I think titians might be a army ability rather than a unit

Warhound I could see

[sweet solar]

like based on pervious creative assembly total war games, we are likely to see Knights as a faction eventually

[main pagoda]

I think knights just come with admech

Don't quite know if you could flesh them out enough to get an entire faction

[sweet solar]

they are an entire faction in the game right now

like in 40k

hell they are TWO factions in 40k

[main pagoda]

Yes but that's also a very different thing

[viral crest]

If the baneblade is going to be in there I see no reason why a Land Raider wouldn't be

[main pagoda]

They were referring to the big sm hover tank

Land raider is in the trailer no?

[viral crest]

Oh is there a new SM superheavy tank?

[main pagoda]

No

It's oldish

[sweet solar]

theres also the old foregeworld/imperial armour one

[main pagoda]

A something or other

[sweet solar]

i dont think its a different thing

they may well add more units thought

as they did to vampire coast etc

as they did for norscans and kislev

as they did for chaos dwarves

like, CA gets leeway

peasent levy and squire sentinels or equivilents would be easy expansion

[floral herald]

A land raider is pretty lightweight next to a baneblade

[main pagoda]

That too

Relatively

[past sphinx]

this ugly thing

[main pagoda]

Lmao

[stark cypress]

Imagine if we get customization options to create a Feudal world regiment.

[sweet solar]

the big necron scarab

[stark cypress]

...

[floral herald]

Oop too slow

[stark cypress]

Oh shit it actually might be there.

[floral herald]

I was gonna post it

[past sphinx]

Fellblade is superior superheavy

[stark cypress]

Sallets for life!!!!

[main pagoda]

Wonder how transports will work or if they even bother with doing it

[past sphinx]

they seem uhh

[sweet solar]

there were telaport spells in total war warhammer

[past sphinx]

important for 40k

[sweet solar]

so they can just make them work in engine

[past sphinx]

the rhino is gods perfect weapon

[sweet solar]

they revealed landraiders already

[stark cypress]

Taurox or Chimera will definitely show up.

[sweet solar]

a transport is just a slow telaport spell you can shoot

[stark cypress]

But let's ask the hard question here...how funny are the Ogryn barks going to be?

[main pagoda]

As in actually picking up troops not transports being there sorry

[sweet solar]

at worst they will be there but clunky

[viral crest]

Space Marines do it a lot with Rhinos