Warhammer and Such

[charred bridge]

I can't spell

[vital barn]

they already have the two Gloriana class battleships Alpha and Beta

and also the battle barges Beta, Beta, Delta, Delta and Delta, because of course they copy their ship names incessantly

[vital barn]

this is such a charming book

[past sphinx]

Why so big

I once again ask

Why big

Its like they accidentally just increased his size in blender to 125% when they finished and nobody noticed

[floral herald]

These new kill teams are so high firepower wtf

[past sphinx]

WScouts all have plasma pistols right?

[floral herald]

they can but their specialists don't have them (mostly)

their weird medic has a pistol which is nearly as lethal

But they have a sniper and such

Stealth Suits have crazy good guns but they're funky

They have 6 real shooters and even though they're APL 3 they don't have a shoot twice

But they do get 2 extra good melta guns

Wolf Scouts get Jaws of the World Wolf too haha

5a 3+ to hit 3/5 blast 2" and sever as a shooting attack

Infinite range I think

They seem really strong but they have to clump up for their storm for full power and with only 13 wounds a guy I feel like they're so easy to kill

They also don't have very good defensive buffs

So JaS or anything

But they're vicious in melee

Really cool team imo

People are really mad about them online it seems

[past sphinx]

people online are always buttmad about everything

especially wargamers

its 1/3rd of the hobby

[floral herald]

real

They do seem really hard for melee only teams to handle

I've had my Phobos guys evaporate too fast for me to think they're too strong

[pale narwhal]

I'm definitely gonna be getting stealth team. Both for the models and bc they seem really neat

[vital barn]

You know, Twice Dead King halting its extremely dramatic duel between the Necron flagship and a big battle barge plus endless swarm of escorts just to casually blow up an Ark Mechanicus with a mining robot and ten Lychguard does feel like rubbing the Mechanicus worf status in a bit.

Really good book so far, but come on, the space marine ship gets to tank a supernova and fight the cron fleet for days.

[past sphinx]

you are literally red shirts

well

red cloaks

coats?

ARRRRR TEA IN THE HARBOR

[vital barn]

They even go "damn that Mech ship has big guns" in the opening chapter, then later describe how it's full broadside does nothing but warm the armour of a necron mining drone up slightly

rude, I guess I chalk up another one on the list of otherwise good books where the Admech do nothing and die

[past sphinx]

mech boys only get the cool guy pass in titan books

even then they get totally overshadowed in warlord

[vital barn]

Games Workshop refuses to allow us to be cool

[past sphinx]

i did like them in brutal kunnin

[vital barn]

The best performances by Skitarii are in Titanicus and Know No Fear, all of which predate Skitarii being codified as useless tinmen

they also lose Brutal Kunning spectacularly hard, much as I liked the guy with the concealed carry lascannon

[past sphinx]

i do like they lose for extremely admech reasons

[vital barn]

It was at least one of about... five books where the Skittles actually get to shoot at the enemy

[past sphinx]

less jobbers more obsessive weirdos in BK atleast

okay a little jobbers

[vital barn]

Still jobbers, we never get to win for Admech reasons

[past sphinx]

their good in flesh and steel!

[vital barn]

one techpriest does any fighting in Flesh and Steel

and she's a low ranking adept with a volkite

[past sphinx]

against a murder servator with a multimelta!

[vital barn]

I'll be honest this doesn't stack up particularly well compared to.the plethora of dead forge worlds, fleets, titans and easily mind controlled armies of useless idiots

[past sphinx]

dont forget all the traitors and civil wars

[vital barn]

Techpriest characters are consistently fun and effective, the faction as a whole is arguably worse then Orks in terms of being fodder

Orks are always on the offensive, they get agency and their stuff is always Gargant We Built This Yesterday so there's no glory in flexing on it like with the parade of dead Imperators

[past sphinx]

more over they get to be scary

[vital barn]

The Mechanicum has a couple of good performances although it's still cursed by infinite scrapcode

The Admech can't fight for shit and I'm getting increasingly irked by this fact

Seriously, an entire Ark Mech dies almost offscreen, they board it, kill about a hundred Skitarii and then it just cuts to it exploding

Casualties: one necron

[humble plover]

It's a rune wolf priest, the space wolf equivalent of both apothecary and chaplain

That's why it gets the special pistol and spiritual chiurgy

(my SW player friend was very excited to tell me all about em lol)

[past sphinx]

Rune priests are wizards wolf priests and medics

Are*

One eats rocks one eats people

[fossil violet]

assembling the first skitarii of my admech army and I am understanding the weakness of my flesh

[past sphinx]

He'll probably grant stealth

Genuinely worse faction to build across 2 game systems

Especially 30k

[fossil violet]

declaring my guys are from a forge world where they don’t wear backpacks

I nearly tore one of the doodads clean off just getting it out of the sprue

[past sphinx]

Wait till you see all the antenna just waiting to snap off on the hq models

[vital barn]

I'm so glad Thallax don't have so many spiky bits

Personally I removed a lot of censers and antennae from my first squad because half of them were bending or breaking in transit anyway

[vital barn]

Finished both Twice-Dead King books

good as hell, first one is an 8/10 on my Black Library scale and second one is a 7/10

they're both great, but the second one has a bit of James Bond "we go to the place to talk to the guy to figure out where to go for Next Location" stuff that makes it meander slightly between the excellent first and third acts

[broken dew]

One necron to an entire Ark Mechanicus is a ridiculous cost ratio

[sonic hare]

(he got better)

[charred bridge]

Reanimation protocol bby

The funny thing I like about Necrons is the way they balance the Necrons so they just don't stomp in space. Their ships are too advanced to fight the imperium effective. They were designed to fight gods and even c'tan shards that bend reality to their will in a war that used stars and planets as weapons.

They are not meant to handle a bunch of fast rocks slung at them

Very jet fightermissiles vs WWI wood plane energy

[broken dew]

realizing that i should have given Wolfrahm Zecht more servo arms in his art if he's gonna be the Master of the Forge since they apparently come equipped with Servo Harnesses

guess i'll see about remedying that

[broken dew]

gonna make the extra servo arms as unobtrusive as i can

[vital barn]

This one didn't, but it's still a very silly fight

The boarding party is pinned down by turrets when a trio of Dunecrawlers arrive from behind and beam the one casualty to death as he runs at them. Somehow the smoke this turned his body into then blocks all Admech sensors including the ones of the wall of guns on the other side of the necrons, they charge out of cover like the ending of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and then we just cut to the ship exploding and the necrons sitting on their flagship totally fine.

A bit Looney Tunes considering how good most of the book is at making the fights vaguely interesting even when the necrons are stomping.

[broken dew]

That's rather goofy

[vital barn]

tonight on Horus Heresy: blackshields become tankiest boys ever, ask Dark Angels to politely leave objective

Breachers with 5+ invuln, 5+ FNP and a ton of heavy stubbers/shotguns are pretty mean scoring troops as it turns out

even if they can't React to get off the point when the Terminators show up

their termies are huge too

going to have to come up with a plan to deal with that, might just be "more snipers, more statuses"

drop the sarge and the squad is LD6, at which point I can probably rout them all with heavy flamers

[sour sequoia]

Flamer phosphex contemptors with claws is a good status tagger/problem solver

[mental birch]

I'm thinking expendable breachers

[vital barn]

I was fairly sure Contemptors didn't get phosphex

but you can go tristatus with heavy flamer + gravgun + havoc launcher on two melee weapons, which is great

panic 1, pinning 1, stun 1

I wonder if that works on Castaferrum

apparently not because it doesn't know what a grav gun is, but it can get a flamestorm cannon for panic 2

[sour sequoia]

Whatever their little dipshit roof rockets are

Oh those are havocs. Still works

[vital barn]

havoc launcher, yeah

phosphex is basically an auto-rout against a lot of targets, shit's scary

Iron Hands inductii get to go hard there

[sour sequoia]

I am admittedly still tossing around a leviathan dread in raven guard because I can just throw the silly phosphex on them and then have fuck-off melee for when people finally get inside the 18” of shadow walking on my brick wall

[broken dew]

think i've got the servo arm setup for Wolfrahm going

[jaunty dawn]

Leviathan is the one that gets a roof phosphex

[broken dew]

yeah i think this looks good

[pastel rampart]

What, no servoskull as a lil' fella hanging around?

[broken dew]

i could add a servoskull

would be mad funny to give him a big wrench as a melee weapon

1st edition tech marine type shit

[vital barn]

on that bad-ferrus-manus-art grindset

[broken dew]

absolutely bash someones fucking skull in

[broken dew]

why is he wearing an oil refinery as a backpack lmao

[broken dew]

i think i could totally swing a power wrench as a proxy of like, a power maul or a power spear or something

[pastel rampart]

If only I could find that model.

Though I did model a techmarine holding an oil can.

[broken dew]

my favourite space marine wargear, oil can

[pastel rampart]

https://usercontent.one/wp/www.warbay.shop/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/IMG_0412-scaled.jpg Got this dude on 30cc of top-grade rhino oil, they forgot I'm me.

[broken dew]

lmao

@pastel rampart Servo Skull added

[pastel rampart]

There we go

[broken dew]

i feel like i should detail the other's up with greeblies because that's how imperium does things

but i kinda like the clean aesthetic

[pastel rampart]

I tend to keep the greeblies to important models, personally.

[broken dew]

i don't really wanna add 500 purity seals and custom trim for everything

[broken dew]

i've only really done important lad art so far aside from the reference sheet tacticus guy

[pastel rampart]

Which is fine, honestly. It lets you know how far you can pare down the greeblies for line troops.

[broken dew]

Mhm

[broken dew]

They get to have normal rivets instead of golden ones on their armor /j

I mean i could genuinely spin something about gold representing the Emperor and being allowed to use it is a sign if your dedication to his service or whatever

[pastel rampart]

Maybe gold service studs too.

[broken dew]

of course

tbf the big rank indicator that i was low-key going for was just

having more customized and older armor

like all of the dudes i've done so far except the tacticus and the First Captain are in pre-heresy armor basically

and the first captain is still in a Terminator suit with a crux terminatus

admittedly i probably should have given Ghaumagan some more ornate armor

think i'll do a detail pass on him as well

might do a detail pass on all the art just to make it a bit more ornate

[rocky shale]

First match up of my local league is into an ork player with 2 gorkanaugmts, 3 deff dreads and 6 kills cans

[broken dew]

mechwarrior ahh list

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/wrist-rocket-watch-those-wrist-rockets-harrison-fog-fire-blast-gif-16944212

Oh yeah yesterday in the Deathwatch West Marches I'm in I became squad lead as a Librarian and gave us Oath of Knowledge for +10 WS/BS against a specific xenos, and as a result, along with bonuses from Charge and Aiming, we had multiple attacks with 10 or more degrees of success.

[upper canopy]

That's Deathwatch yea

By our second mission my Devastator was firing at an effective BS of 110-120

[past sphinx]

another day passes and my desire to play DW only grows

[trim spire]

I tried running a module for a college club

Emphasis on tried, I think we had someone call out and cancel every week but two

But I feel like I was doing something wrong bc the game felt feakishly lethal

The first and only enemies they encountered were Kroot Scouts with flat 17 damage hunting knives

[brittle salmon]

The funny thing is the average Marine is taking between 1 and 0 damage from that lol

[broken dew]

yeah ok this does look quite cool

thinking i might have Wolfrahm also be basically an apothecary on the sly with all the megical looking gizmo's i gave him

[trim spire]

Wonder what I was doing wrong, then, since our one and only combat was nearly a wipe lmao

[thin ibex]

Something I was thinking about as far as the game versus the lore. A tactical squad in lore is probably well serviced with a single heavy bolter team member. In game, there's almost no reason to bring one.

[floral herald]

If they had high armor pen it’s different

[brittle salmon]

i dont think a kroot knife would have high armor pen though

Pen 2; Balanced).``` This is what I found on the Kroot shaper profile, which only really deals damage on high rolls

[desert jay]

You ever think about they're called Centurions but no one has a hundred of them?

[broken dew]

absolute scam tbh

how many Centurions does a chapter normally have anyway

[desert jay]

IDK probably like a half-dozen

[broken dew]

that is, not a lot

[floral herald]

Centurions are relatively common I think?

[vital barn]

having a whole first company of Termies is notable, so most chapters probably don't get anywhere near that for anything heavier

[floral herald]

They’re like broke boy terminators

[vital barn]

I wonder how many land raiders the average chapter has

because I've killed a lot with my shitty cheapo tanks

[broken dew]

was just thinking that centurions being the broke mans terminator armor, i could cram in a decent amount for my chapter for extra heavy armored units but idk anything about how rare they are

honestly i've never really heard much of anything about Centurions

[past sphinx]

primaris dropped like right after them

smothered in the cradle-ish

[floral herald]

That’s mostly cause they’re from the weird pre-primaris era where GW was scrambling to make new space marine sculpts and they were… weird

They’re just a relatively recent STC for extra armor

And they’re assigned to assault or devastator marines

So rookies

Indicating to me that they’re not super rare or honored they’re just specialist gear

[broken dew]

ok cool i will requisition as many of them as the mechanicus is legally allowed to give

[vital barn]

they were considered generally broken in 7e because of a particular grav gun build and otherwise I have heard absolutely nothing about them

[broken dew]

i'm trading all of my battleline marines for centurions

[pale narwhal]

grav was just broken in 7e in general

[thin ibex]

Weren't grav devastator drops legendary for a while?

[vital barn]

might be that they look rather goofy and they have no in-setting weight, so nobody's writing fiction about the glorious centurion devastator company of XYZ

yeah, they were The Space Marine Play

[broken dew]

the art i found for them looks fucking abysmal

[vital barn]

although space marines weren't actually great until they got a formation that gave you a free transport vehicle for every single squad

[floral herald]

This is now very old but the 5e Ultramarines TO&E has 12

[vital barn]

which puts 7e in perspective

[thin ibex]

You know I'm surprised heavy flamer devastator drops aren't a thing

[broken dew]

jesus fucking CHRIST what happened here

[vital barn]

Admech and Marines had "all your wargear is free, your tanks go from 150pts to 90pts" and "infinite free transports" respectively and they were both only about A tier

S tier was Taudar Forever

[broken dew]

why are they the fucking manlet marines dawg 😭

[vital barn]

man that is not a lot of tanks

[floral herald]

Nope not at all lmao

[pastel rampart]

Waddling around like the younger son in A Christmas Story.

[floral herald]

I don’t take those numbers without a healthy dose of salt

[vital barn]

more thunderhawks than predators

which to be fair does make some semblance of sense

[broken dew]

they look fine in some other artwork

[floral herald]

Yeah Thawks are super critical to space marines

[broken dew]

like they look reasonably proportioned and chunky in this art

then you look at the models and they are back to waddling

[thin ibex]

It's funny to me that centurion s are less silly dreadknights

[vital barn]

there's a great bit in an otherwise slop space marine novel where some 30k Space Wolves have popped into the 40k setting and met up with the 40k Wolves

[thin ibex]

Power armor for your power armor

[vital barn]

and the 40k wolf guard go "oh my god a spartan" and start fanboying

at which the 30k wolfguard go "you are so easily impressed"

"holy shit fifteen terminators in one vehicle, this is the biggest hammer force I've ever seen!"

[broken dew]

look the lads need to be h e a v y

[vital barn]

"a fist to equal that of Russ!"

[broken dew]

and i can't afford more terminators

because of logistical issues

[vital barn]

the 30k marines, used to deploying in Termie companies of 50, are making worried expressions in the background

[broken dew]

if i have to field the manlet marines i'll field the manlet marines

[thin ibex]

Something I'm baffled by is that the new primaris thawk, the overlord, is supposed to be bigger than the thawk. But the thawk is already huge

It's a mobile command center than can carry a multi role task force easily

[vital barn]

I thought the Overlord was meant to be a big rotary wing lander rather than a light nimble dropship

the Big Hawk is the Stormbird

which is quite pretty at least

[thin ibex]

Stormbird is the oldy isn't it?

[vital barn]

yeah, it's the 40k one

I think it looks better than the Thawk

[thin ibex]

I don't think the overlord has art

[vital barn]

although it has no turbolaser

[floral herald]

Oh that does look nice

[vital barn]

sadly it's been mid since 2e

[thin ibex]

Overlord Gunship - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum https://share.google/uMMoFH1hL0ZUz7a8O

[vital barn]

huge impractical dropship, like most superheavy transports it costs so many points you can't afford to fill it up and still have a ground force

Thawk is less expensive and has a large laser

[broken dew]

that does sound unfortunate

[vital barn]

in 1e it had fun rules and could go in a Mech force, I was going to convert a big whale statue I had into a cyborg airship and use it as one

never got around to that

I do have a nice whale on my bookshelf because of it, though

[thin ibex]

I just feel like the t hawk is already quite big as a central operational tool of the space marines, the overlord almost feels cumbersome

Able to carry 80 primaris marines

Feels more like a lander than a gunship

[vital barn]

oh, lexicanum is un-fucked, wonderful

[broken dew]

what was up with it?

[vital barn]

cloudflare trouble

but it was down for a couple of days

or at least it was for me

[broken dew]

ahh

[thin ibex]

I feel like 1 full thunderhawk can carry a full compliment of marines ready to address almost any operational scope except open field warfare

[broken dew]

i had some trouble with it as well yesterday

[vital barn]

one thunderhawk drops about one platoon, AKA fodder for legion warfare

I can see why you'd want the overlord

[broken dew]

yeah

i mean if it's legion standard the Overlord would actually be quite good

[vital barn]

the Stormbird is mostly just a bigger and better thunderhawk, they only stopped using them and introduced the new shittier thunderhawk because they were annoyingly hard to build for the vast legions of the Great Crusade

[thin ibex]

Yeah I'm not thinking in legion warfare, in thinking in 41st millennium

[vital barn]

but the Overlord has a different job entirely

[broken dew]

it's kinda overkill for chapter standard though

[thin ibex]

Where space marines are often deployed within the scope of 1 or 2 squads for an entire war zone

[floral herald]

Tbf primaris were originally less tactically flexible and needed bulk

Which makes the overlord make sense

[broken dew]

fair

[vital barn]

I still think the Primaris deployment reads as the WW1 thing where you send out a 1.5x strength unit and assume that by the time they're done making stupid mistakes they'll be down to normal strength

in all those books they take so many losses

[thin ibex]

Like a single full tactical squad, bikes, a supporting heavy weapons squad or vehicle, and boom. You've got an agile task force capable of taking on almost all comers.

Honestly not dissimilar to a tau hunter Cadre in concept, but smaller scale and more agile

[vital barn]

well, unless your enemy has like, two tank platoons

which is really not that much strength

but I can see the scope of most deployments being covered with a few thunderhawks

[desert jay]

That's more or less what the model would look like while A-posed

[thin ibex]

The thawk is kind of the heavy hitter/ contender i imagine. Given accurate targeting data and an active marine squad, i could imagine a t hawk and a single squad taking on mortal tank platoons readily

[vital barn]

40k Space Marines are kept safe from the heavy weapons of their enemy mostly via a combination of plot armour and diving directly and immediately into Zones Mortalis and staying there

thunderhawk air support is always a bit odd

sometimes it's great and sometimes the pilot get shot in the head by a transuranic arquebus because apparently it flies low as hell

admittedly that was in the one book where Skitarii actually got to use their carefully explained super-sniper engrams

newer writers completely forgot they were meant to have aimbot

[desert jay]

Oh wait I know what Centurions are. They're big stompy armor for someone who hasn't kicked it yet

[jaunty dawn]

heavy flamer devestators aren't a thing is main reason

[desert jay]

A Centurion is a pre-dreadnought

[jaunty dawn]

other reason is flamers are not great a lot of the time

[floral herald]

Any sort of remotely plausible space marine theory of war is I think like

[vital barn]

this is because Devastators are weak and will not survive the winter compared to the superior Legion Heavy Support Squad

[jaunty dawn]

except in editions where they break overwatch over its knee somehow

[floral herald]

“You are forward observers for orbital guns”

[desert jay]

I think there's a lot of door-kicking in there too

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah I mean assault centurions basically have the same role as siege dread

[thin ibex]

Something I was thinking about is that like... a space marine doesn't need heavy anti armor gear when they can close to the tank and rip off it's access hatches to kill the crew or drop a grenade in, like in secret level

[broken dew]

if i do art of one for my chapter i'm hella giving them longer legs cause that looks abysmal

[jaunty dawn]

and devestator centurions have the same role as a shooty dread

[vital barn]

or the even further superior Legion Tactical Support Squad, AKA five meltaguns in a rhino

[desert jay]

Because orbital guns can't really kill things indoors without leveling the building

[thin ibex]

Like normal marines against mortal tanks and crews really evens the odds for the Marines, whereas they really needed more numbers and coordination to fight legions

[vital barn]

you do have to run on the assumption you will occasionally run into peer or near-peer forces, like in Twice-Dead King where they just get ran at by Destroyers and Lychguard

admittedly the Necrons in TDK get the protagonist power boost so it's the opposite way around from to normal and the Lychguard can happily 1v3 marines

but I can absolutely see "just run at the tanks" going really badly against some random eldar or orks

humans are uniquely shit at melee and shit at overwatch

[desert jay]

So I guess three jobs for your power-armor supersoldiers:

• Forward observers for orbital guns
• Kicking doors for indoor combat
• Screening heavy vehicles from things that can rip tanks apart with their bare hands

[thin ibex]

Was thinking about secret level where 4 veterans are equal to an entire cultist war band with a tank, multiple fast movers, and a gaggle of disorganized infantry

[vital barn]

the main issue is that cultists aren't real

everyone can kill cultists, mortals with autoguns are fodder

the issue is the twenty genestealers that might be screening that tank line next time

[thin ibex]

Or in blood of asaheim where a single 5 man pack handles Nurgle traitor forces en mass frequently

[desert jay]

Actually I'll fill in a 4th one, "scary-ass shock troops for breaking the morale of things that have morale" but morale isn't real in 40k

[thin ibex]

There's obviously give, as marines are also depicted as dying en mass frequently

[vital barn]

my general thought process is that by the time you have reached a scale which might possibly be depicted in a tabletop match you can no longer just run at them

[thin ibex]

But for marines to frequently live centuries, I have to imagine a certain level of actually being elite

[vital barn]

because the skitarii will plasma you or the guard will actually do their job with emplaced weapons or whatever

[desert jay]

Basically everyone in 40k is either an indoctrinated fanatic or a mindless combat drone

[vital barn]

cultist swarm running at you is like the entry exam for 40k armies

if you cannot trivialise cultist swarm running at you you have no right to put on the big pauldrons

[thin ibex]

I think that's true

I think that most marine deployments are smaller scale/ in support of other forces

[desert jay]

In lore not everyone has one of these two excuses but no one wants to go "hardcore morale rules but only for you guys"

[thin ibex]

And that they tend not to deploy in force without it being a "big deal" (read every tabletop deployment is a big deal)

[vital barn]

what is always fun when I see it is "decapitation strike" becoming magic words that mean "they won't shoot back with anything large", which happens a lot in Space Marine books

[broken dew]

unless you're the Minotaurs

[vital barn]

there's always just one tank in a corridor, never thirty tanks

[broken dew]

the Minotaurs deploy in full chapter strength cause they are losers

[vital barn]

yeah but it does look sick

Watchers of the Throne is a fun book

[untold swallow]

It's good stuff

[thin ibex]

But like, a chapter might send a single under strength tactical squad with no support to answer a call for aid from a planetary governor they have binding oaths with. That squad doesn't even get to keep the thunderhawk. They just have to figure it out

[desert jay]

But even then, full chapter strength is only a thousand guys (plus support elements)

[untold swallow]

@past sphinx do you want a link to the West Marches I'm in?

[broken dew]

rolling up with the whole squad to every engagement when usually people send out like 10 dudes is kind of a bitch move

[vital barn]

I wonder how many enemies have successfully baited space marines with a big obvious HQ full of nice safe zones mortalis corridors that is actually just full of bombs

[thin ibex]

And unlike the tabletop, dreadnoughts are not awoken to fight in every battle the space marines have ever fought in

[vital barn]

because they really love instantly drop podding into the objective

[broken dew]

nah we gotta send the ancient venerable dread to every engagement

[vital barn]

Horus Lupercal Thought is alive and well in M42

[thin ibex]

Drop pod assault but the pod just keeps going down

[broken dew]

bro is part of the Battleline you can't just exclude him like that

[upper bluff]

I would love centurions if they weren't cursed with the firstborn probably gonna get legended disease

[desert jay]

Almost literally the Drop Site Massacre, Astartes never learn

[upper bluff]

Power armor for your power armor is great

[vital barn]

I admit Saturnine has completely displaced whatever minor affection I felt for the Centurion

look, it's The Cooler Centurion

[broken dew]

Saturnines are just

too fucking cool

[thin ibex]

I generally feel like a thunderhawk with a full compliment represents a significant investment from a chapter into a single theatre, 2 or 3 thunderhawks are them fully acting independently in the theatre, and then it goes up from there

[broken dew]

i kinda fw the Centurions though

cause it's like

[upper bluff]

Saturnine is rad yeah

[broken dew]

ANOTHER option for heavy units

for my heavy units guys

[vital barn]

phraetus conclave

a unit I am totally stealing for my HH Alpha Legion

[past sphinx]

theres a lotta warbands out there thats only 30 odd dudes and a thunderhawk and their still extremely effective

[vital barn]

daemon saturnine who are very punchy

[broken dew]

look i'm literally sitting here writing lore as to why my guys use outdated dogshit void hardened armor methods to upgrade their armor just to give them a smidgeon of more tanky cool armor

[upper bluff]

If space marines are gonna be super special and get a million models they should at least have multiple units to fill the same roles

[broken dew]

i need all of the big lads i can get

centurions are more big lads

[desert jay]

And escort (gaggle of cultists to fill the crowd)

[desert jay]

Multiple units to fill the same roles is exactly how they got a million models

[thin ibex]

My mental is that pre primaris, it was kind of like this for loyalists too. In that a Sergeant had a lot of operational authority because they'd be sent to a location and expected to Figure It Out™ with whatever they brought with em

[past sphinx]

theres 4 space marine antitank units as of right now

5 actually

[desert jay]

Are you only counting infantry antitank?

[past sphinx]

devistators, centurians, the rocket morons, melta fuckers and technically the plasma dudes

[upper bluff]

Well yeah I just mean centurions should not get legended so they have more heavy infantry

[vital barn]

the holy five marine infantry units are Tactical/Assault/Devastator/Scout/Terminator, and they have most of those left, but then the Devastator wargear options gained sentience and decided they wanted to be their own squads

[past sphinx]

and terminators in a pinch

[upper bluff]

But I'm still scared they will

[vital barn]

throw in bikes and dread and that's a whole army right there

maybe Sternguard and Vanguard if the marine asks nicely

[desert jay]

There's also eliminators (sniper dudes), las fusil is S9 about as good AT as melta

[past sphinx]

jesus fucking wept

strength NINE

D6 DAMAGE

[thin ibex]

Dedicated AT

• Eradicators
• Lancer
• Repulsor with big laser
• Predator Annihilator
• Ballistus Dreadnought
• Chainfist terminators

Heavy support with AT options

• Devastator
• Devastator Centurions
• Desolators
• Eliminators

Vehicles that are strong AT as well as other things

• Land Raider
• Thunderhawk
• Stormraven

[vital barn]

extremely horus heresy player voice
isn't that the normal amount of damage a lascannon does

[past sphinx]

its not even a las cannon!

[past sphinx]

its a rifle

[vital barn]

oh, huh

[broken dew]

good ass fucking rifle

[desert jay]

Yeah it's between lasrifle and lascannon, with a scope

[vital barn]

I assumed these were lascannon devastators with fancy names

appropriating that to give to a Myrmidon as a mechadendrite cannon

zorch

[past sphinx]

you can give them all fusils?!

fuck thats rad

[thin ibex]

yeah its a big rifle firing line or a precision bolt sniper option

the las fusil is hte generally better pick

but it cant target characters like hte precision weapon can

[desert jay]

There's also a bunch of "can take one AT gun in a squad", like termies (cyclone missiles) or tacticals (classic lascannon)

[vital barn]

Saturnine have these things in HH, and I really like them because my mental image is just one of those 50s B-movie disintegration rays

cone of you don't get to be here today

S6 AP3 flamers also mean they just atomize marines on contact, they're mean

[broken dew]

i do like "heavy particle shredder"

https://tenor.com/view/no-fuck-off-metrocopвп-gif-20027371

[vital barn]

bigger particles

[broken dew]

hit em with one of these

[vital barn]

that's actually the normal disintegrator guns

[broken dew]

just "stop existing" and they just deatomize

[vital barn]

the particle shredders are a big sandblaster cone of disintegrator juice, so things just kind of melt

[broken dew]

wow

i do like that

[vital barn]

you can see the regular dissies and such in the 3e trailer

https://youtu.be/1bZW7ANLaA0?si=NEHpaJhQjXMZHB0f&t=49

[broken dew]

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrate-di-dickhead-gif-18244245181631727836

[vital barn]

feat: dripped out IW centurion

[broken dew]

oh fucking hell that is just

yeah that's deatomizing

sorry but your atomic bonds called and they're quitting their jobs

sorry big man but you're cooked

[vital barn]

I appreciate the Centurion seeing a saturnine dread pop up right in front of him and then immediately deciding "I've got a combi-melta, low diff"

he's not right, but he's got spirit

[broken dew]

where in the vid is that

[thin ibex]

To get back on my individual marines be scary thing, I really enjoyed a single Raptor with broken armor being an absolute menace to a tau occupation force in the Elemental Council novel

[vital barn]

a little later on

it's not long, I just cut out Valdor and Krole talking at the start

[broken dew]

ok i got it lmao

holy shit

bro tried to run up on that Sat dread

This type-a shit 😭

you're not that guy dawg but i appreciate the effort

[vital barn]

I do like the disintegrators

shame they're mostly not great this edition because they have a really bad case of Gets Hot and as such they'll probably kill as many of your own marines as they will the enemy

unless you put them on the Word Bearers daemon saturnine, who could not care less about their gun ceasing to exist in their hands

they're already permamently on fire

[thin ibex]

I take it saturnines see a lot of play

[vital barn]

the basic guys not so much, actually

[thin ibex]

Oh huh

Figured they were popular

[vital barn]

they're very expensive, require even more expensive transport and are generally awkward gun platforms for what they have access to

too slow to use the flamers well, dissies kill them, plasma just doesn't have enough output for 60pt termies

the Saturnine command squads (and their Possessed counterpart, the Phraetus Conclave) are much better

[past sphinx]

just like 40k termies

[vital barn]

since they have the weapon skill necessary to make good use of that huge statline and super-power-weapon

Phraetus are the best of them, since they can pay 60pts for their own deep strike without needing a 150pt+ character with a teleport transponder or 240pt land raider

and they're also tougher because binding daemons to the armour gives them Eternal Warrior 1

[past sphinx]

EW means they can get back up right?

[vital barn]

reduce all damage by 1 to min 1

very strong, since Sats are 3W and damage values in the Heresy are a lot more compressed

a lascannon has 1-2 damage, a thunder hammer does 2 and a neutron laser or a dread punching you in the face 3-4

Phraetus with 3W, eternal warrior and mid-strength damage 3 fists are essentially a hard counter to "standard" elite terminators, which are 2W, deal 2D per hit and tend to have EW1

so you punch them for 3 and they die instantly, whereas they have to wound you three times

downside is that they don't really hurt vehicles, they cost a ton and they're vulnerable to being swarmed if you can get around their particle shredders

[untold swallow]

Watch them replace Cents in 11th

It'd be so funny

Sad for Paul tho, but funny

[vital barn]

GW would have to break their surprisingly hard line on HH stuff working in 40k

which has been the bane of Admech for four editions

Marines had all their cool 30k stuff for a while but they've gotten really precise about that lately

[broken dew]

so long as i get more cool heavy armored lads i wouldn't be too sad about Centurions getting snapped

[sour sequoia]

Still broken actually but nobody besides like James Walsh & John Lennon runs them

[broken dew]

the more big lads that exist the less normal marines i need to field

[vital barn]

I too like my marine armies elite but I accomplish this by going heavy on seekers, destroyers and other elite power armour

sadly 40k is worse at this

[sour sequoia]

Mr Misc can I interest you in wrath of the rock

25 terminators and the lion

[broken dew]

going to go politely ask the Dark Angels to lend me some Terminators

[vital barn]

unfortunately it has an old dude in it and I'm ageist when it comes to Space Marine unique characters

[broken dew]

please and thank you

[vital barn]

(nah, I've never really been one for all-termie armies, although I do like a splash of them)

[sour sequoia]

LMAO

[broken dew]

me showing up to The Rock's front door to ask Lion El'Jonson to give me some terminators

(he is confused as to how the fuck a normal human got onto the rock, is standing on the outside of it which is just space, and why said human is asking for Terminators of all things)

[thin ibex]

oh yeah, the rock pretty much up and left the DA right?

[jaunty dawn]

did vashtorr steal it

[thin ibex]

well he like... negotiated it leaving with him, but yeah essentially stole it i think

[broken dew]

word?

i did not know that

i guess i'm petitioning Vashtorr the Arkifane for the DA's stock of Termies?

he'd be likely to be even MORE confused than the Lion as to how the fuck i got onto The Rock

[jaunty dawn]

Oh no I think vashtorr stole the rest of caliban

[broken dew]

oh that makes more sense

[vital barn]

I am strongly considering doing a Pride of the Legion-type AL army for 30k

[jaunty dawn]

He stole tuchlula

[broken dew]

Vashtorr getting The Rock i feel would be pretty apocalyptic for the DA

since you know

[jaunty dawn]

Tuchulcha

[broken dew]

they are NOT letting it go without a fight

[jaunty dawn]

Which was inside the rock

[broken dew]

they're locking in to keep The Rock even if it means all of them dying

[jaunty dawn]

But he took it out of the rock rather than taking the rock

[vital barn]

10 headhunters with daemon mods, 20 vets or seekers since they can use the same models, 5 Lernaeans, Mechanicum backup to taste

maybe some Phraetus Conclave instead of Lernaeans if I can hydra them up enogh

AL vets are funny because they can become Compacted Tac Squads

normal tac squads are 20 1W marines with bolters

vets with combi-banestrike are 10 2W marines with two bolters taped together each

[jaunty dawn]

And it was kinda easy because he just negotiated with tuchulcha and then it teleported them both away

[broken dew]

well that's no good

[vital barn]

it is funny to me that the Space Wolves call themselves the Astartes-killers but when the Heresy started the AL just cracked open the big vault of Anti-Space Marine Guns that they'd had there the entire time and handed them out without fanfare

and their elite terminator corps has Hatred(Astartes) too

[jaunty dawn]

Who cares about bolters just bite the enemy nom nom

[broken dew]

Ah yes my anti-space marine weapons cache, i haven't used it since the Horus Heresy Era

[vital barn]

if you get 10 sniper dudes with those guns there's actually a particular combo where you pump warptech targeting boosters into them with a nearby Magos and achieve Bullet Nirvana

at which point they'll take down a primarch in two salvoes, one if they're very slightly lucky

or kill about five termies

[broken dew]

nice

[vital barn]

a third of the squad will die every time you do it to cybertheurgic feedback

but it's very fun to hit your dudes with the sandevistan

a guy DMed me the other day to say that my stupid combo is now being ran in matches on the other side of the world, which made me unreasonably smug

[broken dew]

nice

[vital barn]

someone dubbed it "the headhunter bomb" since it's basically a suicide tactic, my affectionate name for the squad is "Soulkillers"

[jaunty dawn]

Really tempted to pick up the breacher box when it comes out 😭

[vital barn]

they will kill any unique character in the game who isn't Horus Ascended if not dealt with

(or Alpharius, Alpharius is immune to snipers regardless of what squad he's in)

[jaunty dawn]

Just to make a second word bearers army

(Gray edition)

No I didnt finish the first one

[vital barn]

ashen circle + breachers make a really nice composition

ACs are pretty sweet this ed too

die when breathed on but they do the damage

[jaunty dawn]

Im sad that theres no like equiv of the iconoclast warlord trait from 2e but have heard ashen circle rock yeah

Other than that my basic plan was just siegebreaker and all the phosphex things

[vital barn]

you do also have Phraetus, who are some of the only melee elites that don't need a transport and careful nursemaiding

just drop a squad into the enemy backline on round 2, incinerate a squad with the particle shredders and force your enemy to deal with the three brick shithouses before he can maneuver

[jaunty dawn]

Whenever plastic bombards happen anyway

Is that the possessed saturnines

[vital barn]

yeah

[jaunty dawn]

Mm

Yeah I wanted to do a chapter who dont care abt demons

They’re just here for burning duty

[vital barn]

basically all your units except Gal Vorbak and special psykers are great these days

GV are unfortunately stuck as elite termie-priced marine shredders and you can just do that job more cheaply

[jaunty dawn]

Oh that sucks

[vital barn]

the Mhara Gal is the best dreadnought and Phraetus are A-tier elite termies

[jaunty dawn]

Im mad abt praetors getting a boring discipline now

[vital barn]

bear in mind you can always not take a praetor if you don't need an apex det

[jaunty dawn]

That doesnt even work right unless you take another esoterist anyway

[vital barn]

All Diabolist Party real

[jaunty dawn]

I dont think I do need to no

[vital barn]

costs you a reaction per turn but you can make up for that with a Master of Signal or Command Rhino

[jaunty dawn]

I see

[vital barn]

which also help with reserves for your deepstrikers

[jaunty dawn]

Master of signal makes sense

[vital barn]

Space Marines have by far the most flexible army building

yeah, grab a MOS and stick him in the radio squad

he can then slam scoring on one of your squads every round, boost your reserves and let you farm reactions

Augur Command and Control Squad, that's the name

80pts for vox gang

[jaunty dawn]

Ah

Cool

Oh you can still jump pack siege breaker

[broken dew]

Ok now he looks proper techmarine-y

[sour sequoia]

You can basically put every command in every armor/mobility option its just a lot dont have bespoke models

[jaunty dawn]

Not all of them tho

And like

Siege breakers are heavy n stuff so I thought that might make them a weird exception

Just wanna put the smash in smash captain

And deliver phosphex grenades

[untold swallow]

you're drawing over other pieces of art in like, GIMP or something, right?

[broken dew]

Firealpaca

is my art program of choice

but yeah

doing mockups for parts and then making a coherent layer over it for coloring

[untold swallow]

This is maybe weird

[untold swallow]

Would you consider taking comms?

Cuz damn you make the whole look extremely cohesive

[broken dew]

i mean yeah i guess

[untold swallow]

I imagine it takes fucking forever too lol

[broken dew]

i mean

i can bang one out in a day

it's not that much work

[untold swallow]

Damn, nice

[broken dew]

i could def do one

just finished retouching all of the ones i've done previously to make them all look nicer so i'm basically free

idk send me pictures whatever bits you want comglomerated with a big red circle pointing out what bits you want from what pictures or smthn

Never done a comm before

[untold swallow]

I will get back to you on that tomorrow, thank you for offering lol

[broken dew]

yeah no problemo

i gtg anyway so that works for me

[upper canopy]

I completely forgot that they already had a Captain of the 2nd Company

so is Acheran just fucking dead now

Are there so many Ultramarine Captains that 3 guys fill the same position in like 10 years

[pale narwhal]

Theyve said there’s news abt him. My guess is he’s dreadnoughted

[upper canopy]

sucks for anyone who bought that model I guess

get fucked

[thin ibex]

I kind of figure he just got a specialist role instead and lost the captaincy

Also didn't thy model pre exist the character?

[floral herald]

His model was always a generic phobos captain

It was a little weird it was “canonized” as a specific guy

But it was a cool nod at first

[sour sequoia]

I need to start using masking tape

[jaunty dawn]

Apparently hes also the gravis captain from dark imperium

[floral herald]

I do think they’re making it hella awkward for themselves by ignoring the other ultramarines companies though lol

[jaunty dawn]

Oh apparently the terminator captain is Agemman

…which makes sense I suppose theres only one ultramarine captain of the 1st company

Hm

Is this basically just a consequence of every single captain model painted as an ultramarine captain of second company is theoretically the same guy

Or series of guys

[desert jay]

Ultramarines have a whole bunch named captains

[jaunty dawn]

I think they’re all named

But because apart from veterans every studio paintjob for ultramarines is second company

[desert jay]

I dunno if there's the whole ten, but there's at least half

[jaunty dawn]

And theres a ton of captain models

They’ve all been named at one time or another though that doesnt necessarily mean they are accurate as of “present”

[junior summit]

Is there a sequel to dark imperium?

If I want more of guilliman being human where can I get that

[desert jay]

Okay yeah I found more names

[desert jay]

Have you read through Godblight?

[vital barn]

I believe you have Avenging Son, Plague Wars and Godblight, possibly not in that order because I'm not sure on that

[junior summit]

Yes

[desert jay]

Okay well Avenging Son also stars Guilliman and is by the same author

But the Dawn of Fire series seems to hop around between both author and narrative focus

[untold swallow]

Brought on by the discussion of UM paintjobs by GW; company being conveyed through shoulder trim and battlefield role by pauldron is dumb af tbh. I think it's immediately more obvious what one's battlefield role is by what one is wearing/wielding and should be put on a kneeplate, while the pauldron could have company insignia

Which maybe that's the point, battlefield obfuscation and whatnot, but the existing system isn't hard to suss out while also being annoying

[junior summit]

space marines usually have a pretty detailed friendly position overlay which probably helps

[untold swallow]

that's fair

[pastel rampart]

If you do I highly recommend hitting the model with some matte varnish first so the paint doesn't come off. I've had that happen before, it's annoying.

[floral herald]

It’s also a tiny unit of experts who’ve been fighting together for decades

So the unit markings are pretty much all traditional dress uniform schemes to show pride in your chapter

Since the average company initiate can probably identify everyone in their company by gait and smell

[thin ibex]

I think there's a level of "the pauldron is the clearest thing to read as a human being from above" too

[acoustic sierra]

I dont like trim for companys but I like kneepads for them, go DA

[junior robin]

finally, Abaddon primaris lieutenant

[tired cairn]

40k loves top-knots for some reason. It could be anything! Though the spikes probably do mean Chaos lol

[junior robin]

or orks

Unless...

[jaunty dawn]

Looks like orks to me

[arctic lynx]

They killed ||off Chairon. :(||

[floral herald]

Eh, more reveals today or?

[broken dew]

😔

[arctic lynx]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/2uwxtd2k/500-worlds-how-did-titus-become-captain-of-the-second-company-again/

Yep, a rundown of the second company Captains and how Titus got the position again.

[broken dew]

https://tenor.com/view/noooo-star-wars-darth-vader-gif-8348766

||we can no longer spare 3 men||

[arctic lynx]

||Acheran and Chairon, along with the strike force they brought locked themselves in with the Genestealers and had an extended cage match. There were no survivors||

[floral herald]

Imagine dying on a planet called Trygg lmao

Bros going down to math homework

[arctic lynx]

They promoted him to Lt just to kill him off.

Come on GW, this was your opportunity for another Ultramarine Lieutenant model.

[upper bluff]

I understand that Ultramarines are the specialest boys and Titus is one of the specialest Ultramarines but the fact Titus got a model gives me new hope that the Mechanicus II Magi will get models

A Scaevola model would be so good

[arctic lynx]

Oh I would kill for a Skitarii focussed Sub-Domina Khepra

[upper bluff]

Same

[arctic lynx]

Or a lone operative assassin Captrix

[broken dew]

You know what's funny

Trygg means "safe" in swedish

[vital barn]

only Space Marines are canon, clearly

not that I would say no by any means

[upper canopy]

Titus got two models

rules legally I guess I can field Two Tituses

And Two Calgars

[upper bluff]

Captain Titus and his secret identical twin brother Lieutenant Titus

[floral herald]

I think there’s a lockout against fielding both Calgars at least

[upper bluff]

The other Titus is legends I think so I doubt they'll have that

[broken dew]

Marneus Calgar and the Ghost of Marneus Calgar

lore accurate Marneus Calgar duo

[sour sequoia]

A genestealer cult got to Do Something fuck yeah

[untold swallow]

eh, fair I spose

[jaunty dawn]

Rules legally they have rules that make it so you cant take both lol

[vital barn]

GSCs have a surprisingly good record

[jaunty dawn]

More power to you if you wanna proxy

[vital barn]

they fucked up a bunch of Custodes in Shadow Throne and made a bunch of guys unreasonably mad

custodian head removed by mining laser

[floral herald]

You’d think more armies would use dewalts given the track record

[tired cairn]

It's probably tech-heresy

And even the hereteks have some standards

[jaunty dawn]

Space marines have lascutters but theyve been locked away in heresy now

[vital barn]

they're very good, I wish they were on more units

30k lascutters are the signature special weapon of Breacher squads and very good at mangling heavy vehicles, which is a trucky thing to do in 3e

[thin ibex]

are las cutters effectively laser buzz saws?

[vital barn]

cutting torch, yeah

they look quite funky

[jaunty dawn]

For cutting through bulkheads

[upper bluff]

Nothing is cooler in scifi than using mining and construction equipment as a weapon

[acoustic sierra]

are those in the 3e box? been wanting some for the first legion

[jaunty dawn]

The new version is debuting in an upcoming limited(?) Box

Alongside new big shoulder terminators

[vital barn]

yeah, new breachers coming

[deft crest]

Brother our armor is nigh inpenetrable to most weapons fire, What force could stand against us when fighting toe to toe?
The humble POINTY SPEAR LAUNCHER

-# Harpoons in killteam do a lot of damage

[tired cairn]

I wish the Knight with the giant harpoon launcher was better

[jaunty dawn]

Its a lot of damage but its not really ap

[tired cairn]

It relies on devastating, yeah

It was extra funny when mortal spilled over between models

[jaunty dawn]

Oh I meant the kill team one sorry

But yeah

Funny harpoon should be cool

[broken dew]

i haven't laughed so hard in a while

[mental birch]

A classic

[tired cairn]

The dream almost certainly involved burning heretics with fire though

[junior summit]

I think this is funny in the context of space marines completely lacking a libido

[tired cairn]

Well, it's a standard joke without that context. But that makes it funnier, yeah

[sour sequoia]

The secret of imperial militia book letting you straight up take all the GSC industrial shit in your little allied detachments for Heresy and the weapons are just backported to their 7th/8th versions is so so so funny

Heresy can experience the wonders of guns worth 5 times the body they’re mounted on

[deft crest]

Piercing is rare in KT anyway

[floral herald]

guy who’s been playing Deathwatch voice not really

[rocky shale]

Can't wait for my all meltas stealth suits team

[floral herald]

It’s only 2 meltas sorry

But being 40% meltas is pretty nutty

[junior summit]

a melta in KT is about as close as you'll get to a gun of kills you instantly, isn't it?

[floral herald]

Pretty much

Meltas and sniper rifles to a lesser extent

And the weird ass pistol the archeologist gets

There is the weird necron gun which can banish you to the time out dimension

[upper bluff]

Good for the techno archaeologist for bringing an archaeotech kill you gun

[rocky shale]

That would be the corsairs wraithcannon

[floral herald]

Oh true

[upper bluff]

Is there a harlequin kill team?

Because I hope the neurodisruptor gets the status of a kill you gun

[sour sequoia]

There is! Its sort of tricksy but I see it relegated to Pubstomper status a lot

[floral herald]

There is

It’s pretty good but not a kills u instantly gun

[floral herald]

Up until the last balance data slate they were top tier

[tired cairn]

I know why they do it. But I always feel mislead when I see the weapon profile of a devastating weapon

[sour sequoia]

Oh yeah they’re good its just that at least the fellas I talk to, they’re like a knowledge check/weed out

[vital barn]

they're rather less stylish in Heresy because the status of "horde of chaff" has been decreased somewhat from previous editions, but you can use them all WYSIWYG apart from Purestrains

[sour sequoia]

If you know how to beat them You Just Do

[vital barn]

Militia no longer has 3pt levies

you used to be able to field chaff for literally less than the cost of the bolt shells needed to kill them

[floral herald]

Oh, speaking of KT competition

Mandrakes are firmly top 2 now

[rocky shale]

It's such a goofy statline. Numbers like the rogue trader's orbital guns.

[floral herald]

This one is also very silly

[tired cairn]

Is the Drukheri wraithcannon just some kabalite holding a massive gun like the guy from Predator with the chain gun?

[floral herald]

Basically

[junior summit]

sometimes it's just a rifle

oh discord supports webp now

[rocky shale]

That's a blaster

Which is similar but smaller

[junior summit]

no thats a 4th ed wraithcannon

[floral herald]

They’re the same fun but a different handle

[rocky shale]

And then there's my favorite big guns (silent BTW)

[floral herald]

Cause this is the rifle holder

[upper bluff]

Trans-Liquid Powered Core

Gender fluid gun

[sour sequoia]

MY TIME IS NOW

REVERSE VAMPIRES GO (need permission to fight outdoors)

[floral herald]

The new tac ops also seem to have really fucked up Voiddancers

Which I didn’t expect

Since the new ones include a lot of mission actions and having a lot of APL across the team seems important

But they also nerfed them directly which maybe mattered more than I realized

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this 2k space marine list?

[desert jay]

A transport for every squad huh?

Wait, almost

[tired cairn]

Really sucks to be those last few people on foot

[desert jay]

Someone has to guard home plate

[tired cairn]

The Terminators can also teleport, so maybe one squad is chilling in orbit

[desert jay]

For theoretical strategic mobility the last squad can also split into the land raiders

Or tank desant, that’s always fun

[tired cairn]

I was imagine the unfortunate last squad having to hoof it

"Brothers! Please wait up brothers! I wish to die in battle gloriously for the Emperor too, brothers"

[spice flicker]

Look we all know space marines arent the best cooks and so need someone to stay home to make sure nobody left the stove on.

[sour sequoia]

I fuck heavy with Invader ATVs in Stormlance, I think you don’t need double bladeguard bricks at all. If they don’t have someone like a chapter master or a Judiciar, they’re not that scary

[rocky shale]

That's a lot of transports

[sour sequoia]

They’re tough, but they won’t force someone to fight them without adding another Problem to the unit.

[spice flicker]

But really I was considering swapping the LR for repulsor executioners since the terminators will likely be deep striking.

[sour sequoia]

The hullspam ain’t bad but I’d cut down on it some to try and fit predators or a RepEx

The hulls as-is are not scary enough for a world where people are used to meta tyrant big knights now, the people who couldn’t kill em will jam and everybody else will go “your biggest unit is a land raider? You’re adorable they’re both dead bottom of round 2”

[spice flicker]

How's this?

[deft crest]

Trans Liquid Power Core

[deft crest]

Damn i was too slow

[spice flicker]

Might give the destructors lascannons instead of heavy bolters.

[rocky shale]

Isn't storm lance task force mostly for mounted units?

[pale narwhal]

It also heavily benefits melee due to advance and charge but generally yeah

[spice flicker]

Meant to change it with the other changes.

[sour sequoia]

You have 1 strat unavailable without mounted/flying (and its very good) but besides that this is honestly fine

[mild glen]

Okay. Finally broke the losing streak today.

Thanks for the reminder to use my damn' deep strikes.

[past sphinx]

after all these years ive never gotten the mechnic to work for me

always rather have em ride in

[sour sequoia]

It def takes some practice. You do a dozen reps of Grey Knights or Genestealers or Daemons though, and you get real good at it

[past sphinx]

always feels like im leaving my potentially lynchpin units entirely in the hands of my opponent misplaying

[mild glen]

I'm yet to have a game where I couldn't find somewhere to deep strike (even if it was suboptimal) by turn 3. (Though, to be fair, I'm far less experienced than most people here)

(And I've never had to deep strike into a horde army)

[mental birch]

Dont forget deepstrike isnt just

A threat byt haovmg it ypu fofce your opponent to hold bsck more

[past sphinx]

you trade actual board pressure turn 1-2 into potential boardpressure with an 9inch charge witch on odds you'll fail

you might deepstrike into the backline and then slog around for 2 turns

abbadon on bike

jump abbadon

maybe abbadon in gravis armor

[floral herald]

This is completely delusional but I hope it's Ygethmor

[past sphinx]

now THAT is a pull

[jaunty dawn]

I dont think abaddon’s spikes are that regular

[past sphinx]

Abbadon (post hairdresser)

[jaunty dawn]

It makes me think savage orks mainly

[tired cairn]

The Lord Deceiver is a Chaos Sorcerer who uses his warp spawned visions to direct a Black Crusade from system to system
IDK guys, I think maybe you shouldn't be getting navigational instructions from someone with the title "Lord Deceiver"

[floral herald]

No he's super good at his job

If there's a fuckup it's the Lord Ravagers

[jaunty dawn]

Lord discordants are actually pretty good team players too

[tired cairn]

Clearly the issue here is that they are named after ravaging and so are bad at it.

[past sphinx]

normally its nightlords characters getting killed in blogposts to aura farm for a random space marine

weird to be on the otherside of it

[finite compass]

TBF

He could have triumphed

They offered him the entire company as reinforcements

He insisted on three men

[past sphinx]

frugal to the last!

a true ultramarine

far to concerned with logistics

[spice flicker]

Working on planning some things out but am curious about something.

A.) I know for crusade you can swap between detachments between battles but which detachment would tou suggest building around: Unending swarm, warrior bioform onslaught, Vanguard Onslaught, or Subterranean Assault?

B.) Besides the hive tyrant, which HQ would you suggest using for the different detachments and as leader of the crusade force as a whole? I was considering a neurotyrant but was curious what you guys might suggest.

[tired cairn]

Subterranean Assault is a lot of fun

It's also more generic than Vanguard Onslaught I feel like?

Unending Swarm and Warrior Bioform are quite specialized

Hmm, Neurotyrant is good. I guess you don't want to use the Swarmlord because of the Epic Hero rules?

[spice flicker]

Aye

[spice flicker]

Its newer and I havent done much with the nids in over a year so not too familiar with that one.

[tired cairn]

I think fluff wise, Hive Tyrant makes the most sense as the leader of the crusade force

You do need burrowers, but not as high of a percentage of them as the other detachments need their thing. The swingiest is a melee based army, but the stronger variant is a shooting one because it lets you get ridiculous angles on targets

[spice flicker]

So raveners, mawlocs, and trygons?

Invest heavy into them for the subterranean detachment?

Any suggestions for a 750 points list?

[tired cairn]

Raveners are good for it. And is at least one Trygon (the Tyrgon Prime enhancement is quite good). Mawlocs are alright. But I don't think you need to invest heavily? 4 is probably fine (especially since Raveners are uppy-downy)?

Oh, no idea for 750 point list. That might be a weird point level for that detachment

[spice flicker]

How's this as a starting point?

Not the most confident or pleased with this list

[spice flicker]

Yeah kinda feel like sub 1000 is a weird spot for nids.

[tired cairn]

It's a lot of units. It can do a bunch of objectives

Idk know how crusade works and if the Trygon not being a character normally is a problem

[pale narwhal]

Objectives in a crusade tend to be less action heavy

It tends to be a bloodbath

[tired cairn]

Gargoyles might be better than Hormagants: you can do a fun thing where you can use tunnels to DS within 6" and then shoot+move to get onto an objective

[charred bridge]

Is that you Jaghaitai Khan? Are you finally back from the Drukhari milk raid

The White Scar copium

[sour sequoia]

Gargoyles are in contention for best battleline in the game, this shit is so dumb. Even without DS they just go 12”+D6” then shoot w/ assault and go 6” more, through walls and through models

I am playing the best battleline faction and in final day I’m taking 30 gargoyles cuz they’re better than my shit

Even at their worst usage, 30 gargoyles says “you are not scoring primary for 1-2 rounds.”

[pale narwhal]

Gargoyles are nuts yeah

[sour sequoia]

What crusade are you looking at doin? Might change the answer a bit.

Neurotyrants are legit great units, kinda core to the army atm because of how shadow in the warp works, and them + zoans get to be goofy blasting power in crusade where Killing or just outlasting becomes way more important.

[spice flicker]

Pariah nexus

[spice flicker]

So would you advocate for unending swarm then?

[sour sequoia]

Nah. I think the shit you’d have fun with is likelier to be bioform or subterranean

Unending is really boring and it doesn’t lean into strengths of bugs in crusade well

[spice flicker]

Why do you say that?

[sour sequoia]

The shitbugs are not gonna live long, the characters you can add to them are your big force multipliers.

[vital barn]

pondering a mech army made of servitors and annoyed by the fact that to do it properly I'd still need a bunch of Skits to be battleline

maybe I can get some battleclade boxes and put Skitarii weapons + heads on them

[rocky shale]

I'm pretty sure I've seen someone do that and it looks pretty good

[vital barn]

yeah, I saw a nicely painted one

downside is that then I'm not using them as battleclade and those are decent units

would be nice if Cult Mech had battleline besides Cawl but it's not that bad a buff to forego if my 2-3 units of Skits explode

[desert jay]

Kataphons used to be troops v_v

[vital barn]

yeah, that was what I was thinking of

they are very beefy now though

they used to be a lot squishier

T5 W3 4+ 6++ on Destroyers

[spice flicker]

Any list building tips for the subterranean detachment then?

[acoustic sierra]

🙂

[sour sequoia]

Norn Assimilators, raveners + hyper adapt, haruspexes, psychophages, hive guard

Subterranean opens up your listbuilding because you don’t need Exocrines

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this as a starting point?

[sour sequoia]

That works, if short on hammers besides the trygon. Use him as a rapid ingress threat and try to flip whatever tank people brought

Not much you can do at 750pts for almost any army, weird startpoint

[spice flicker]

How'd you suggest moving forward to 1000 and 1250 points?

[sour sequoia]

Haruspex, norn, hypers

Or if you want more shooting, big hive guard bricks.

Free rapids and heroic intervention on the raveners already doing uppy downy goes fucking crazy

[spice flicker]

Should I replace one of the raveners squads with a haruspex at the 750 points level?

[sour sequoia]

You’re at two tunnellers without it, right

[spice flicker]

The trigon prime and the remaining raveners squad

[sour sequoia]

nah I'd keep em

[spice flicker]

How's this for 2000?

[mental birch]

Slog? Laughs in crisis suits

[past sphinx]

they walk and walking is for peasants

even if its just the suit walking

[sour sequoia]

The secret to melee deepstrikes is called Rapid Ingress

hey I see you've left a gap for a single 40mm model in that ruin.

Nightbringer.
It is 0CP to cry about it (:

[vital barn]

I wish the 30k Arcuitor actually had a squad to go with because right now that's the only trick they can do, although it's a pretty good trick

used to be able to do something like that with a Knight Errant and dump 10 AP2 shots into the rear armour of a Dread but both the generic Knight Errant and the psy-relics list are gone

[thin ibex]

so, generally speaking 1k isnt super balanced for 40k right? Is 1250 or 1500 more balanced or have the same issues that 2k doesnt?

[pale narwhal]

The game as a whole is generally balanced around 2k but 1500 is closer to regular balance

1k and 1250 lists feel like playing with half an army

[past sphinx]

I like how fast 1250 can be

And its hard to get an epic hero in there

Maybe 1

[pale narwhal]

Lower points can be fun but tend to be a lot bloodier in my experience bc you have less units to devote to doing actions on the whole

And yeah they can be a lot faster

[sour sequoia]

The game is only ever actively balanced for 2k

25-26 matched play had a minor effort to make space for 1k but there’s a problem that arises: Knights Exist, Ctan Exist, GSC Exists

[thin ibex]

It's the speed that really interests me

Any house rules yall are aware of that makes 1k feel more balanced?

[sour sequoia]

Use the 25-26 layouts, and honestly. Limit people’s lists

Don’t take single units that cost over like 250-300 points. Don’t take fuckin knights lmao

[brittle salmon]

No primarchs, no knights, no superheavies

You're probably golden

[desert jay]

Maybe one armiger, as a treat

[vital barn]

From what I remember from HH 1k games, Custodes tend to eat people, and I imagine that generalises to 40k too

[tired cairn]

I thought that was space marines

[charred bridge]

They do get the nice memories from eating brains

I don't think Custodes would get anything out of it besides having some fun

[pale narwhal]

unless you build to face custodes in 1k it's a rough matchup yeah

in general skew lists do very well in 1k bc your opponent has to pick and choose what to be able to deal with

[mental birch]

I do okay but i'm a crisis skew and we can be dealt with by most weapons hhaah

[tranquil ivy]

fellas im struggling with my Dusk Wyrms again which colour scheme is better

Gunmetal is the current scheme but the issue is Gunmetal is hard to use since it means all the metallic bits kinda start to blend together into the model

[upper canopy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/366866974812405761/1438129353862025367/image0.jpg?ex=6915c1d5&is=69147055&hm=b1efcf58035473d61edfd2752e374238192c379af20036f2fa2254ff7a124ae2&

[acoustic sierra]

I like the one on the right

[thin ibex]

so acheran and chairon are in fact dead

acheran died as he lived, understaffed

[sour sequoia]

Frankly we should be feeding a major character per year to an absolute dogshit flavorless death for the good of the setting

[brittle salmon]

Calgar next

[sour sequoia]

I wanna see Jaghatai’s return to the setting as a living bearskin rug on the next drukhari party barge

[fossil violet]

Celebrating a milestone (broke my first lil doodad on an admech model)

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/KDMiF/4cbd780382.jpg

I finally found something almost too big for my plate.

Someone recreated the old Armorcast Trygon and it's a beast

[bright dove]

But obviously we should wait as long as possible to kill Dante to keep the meme alive.

[soft willow]

Hurrah for Imperial Agents updates! More Kill Teams join the trench coat pretending to be a 40k army.

[floral herald]

Wait who now?

[sour sequoia]

new deathwatch is now in agents

I dont even know what they do in bighammer, is this meaningful home objective chud tech for knights

[floral herald]

Ooooh

[soft willow]

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_12-11_wh40k_faction_pack_imperial_agents-knrarjdsgi-w9pj7gfqly.pdf

[floral herald]

They’re awful basically

Aiui

[soft willow]

They're slightly cheaper and slightly worse than the old kill team by my read?

[floral herald]

Oh Sanctifiers look good though

[soft willow]

Slightly better shooting at the cost of having fewer shields and hammers.

[floral herald]

Oh my information is definitely out of date then

[soft willow]

Sanctifiers are interesting but don't actually do much more than their weirdo peers for the cost.

[trim spire]

Man we're never getting 7e Deathwatch back again are we

They were cool as hell for 10% of an edition and have been awful garbage ever since

[soft willow]

Deathwatch Kill Team is a staple unit in Imperial Agents.

[soft willow]

Unless you go back and play 7th no.

[floral herald]

They’ve been meta-definingly strong twice in 10e

Basically any time special issue ammo is OP

[trim spire]

That kinda feels like lowest bar imaginable

Wrong reply ops

[floral herald]

I think the funniest was on launch when they just like

Shit mortals on everything and killed any unit with bolter fire

Maybe any infantry

[trim spire]

7e was the most interesting because it made you actually consider the makeup and loadout of kill teams

Now theyre all generic

That's when I bought into the army, and they havent made it work remotely like that ever since so my army is totally useless lol

[soft willow]

That's the classic Warhammer experience tbh.

[trim spire]

It's why I don't play the game anymore

One of the reasons anyway

[spice flicker]

Can you still use redeployment enhancements if the user is in strategic reserve or deep strike and not on the board at the start of the battle?

[rocky shale]

No they're still pretty bad given that the other kill team is used basically exclusively with 4 hammers

Sanctifiers are pretty good in agents because they have a ton of overwatch threat

[floral herald]

I was under the impression they were worse and more expensive

[rocky shale]

And scouts

[floral herald]

Yeah anything with scouts and regenerating models and flamers is like

Credible unless overcosted

[rocky shale]

Same cost, slightly better shooting worse melee

Sanctifiers are like a always take at least one for agents

The new aquila KT is totally forgettable

If they had higher strength weapons it'd be worth trying but it's just sorta a plasma-ish squad

Whereas deathwatch vets can bring 4x S10 hammers and get some work done since you can give them lance and such from the fleet detachment

[deft crest]

I way prefer new KT to old KT because it feels like its more about the game rather than playing point calculator with fiddly options.
If i wanted the crunch i'll play 40k proper or go play 30k but for a skirmish game getting to play the game is way more important IMO

its just a time thing too

[floral herald]

Same

I really appreciate the minimal list building and crunchy gameplay

[deft crest]

Quick shout out, Trench Crusade is doing pretty well at the points thing despite my statement here, but thats because 7 models is actually the standard

but TC gets away with it because all the rules are incredibly simple in execution though too

which KT isnt

(To its benefit and detriment)

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/KDMAS/fceb92ba6d.jpg

Woo baby.

1 day 8 hours to print lmao

[upper bluff]

How big is that?

Is that a titan pauldron?

[pastel rampart]

Warhound Titan at 28mm scale.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/udated-armorcast-style-wardog-titan This giant THING that I'm debating on printing.

https://fbi.cults3d.com/uploaders/27227458/photo-file/902ac19d-a00d-4c91-8c00-9f202b7222e5/486643207_9521371131256816_1435349629779517982_n.jpg

[sour sequoia]

Which ability are you looking at

There’s a few that do and a few that don’t iirc

[spice flicker]

Both:
Neuronode: Tyranids model only. After both players have deployed their armies, you can select up to three Vanguard Invader units from your army and redeploy all of those units. When doing so, any of those units can be placed into Strategic Reserves, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves.
And
Tremor Senses: Tyranids model only. After both players have deployed their armies, select up to three friendly Tyranids units from your army and redeploy them. When doing so, you can set those units up in Strategic Reserves, regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves.

[tired cairn]

Belated, but I believe the answer is no unless the rule specifies otherwise (basically things off the board don't apply their rules to the game by default)

[deft crest]

ohhhh they are only 1100 points hhrmmmmm

[sour sequoia]

They won’t be able to target things on the board, so you have the right of it

[tired cairn]

Yeah, those have to be on the board. You can put them into reserves as part of their effect though

[sour sequoia]

@spice flicker you gotta deploy em yeah

Being in reserves stops shockingly few things actually, but its usually another rule that stops it

Like all my fuckin cult icon units get to reanimate in reserves

[spice flicker]

Just making sure thanks

[mild glen]

Oooof. Stealth suit nerf

[sour sequoia]

Its a good rule to check. The vanguard invaders one used to be after you knew turn order which is crazy

[pastel rampart]

See I don't even play 40k anymore I just want BIG ROBOT DOG (and to really test my printer)

[sour sequoia]

Slim you’re gonna fail oldhead midterm exams you gotta say you play the last good edition of 40k

[pastel rampart]

But there WAS no good edition of 40k

[thin ibex]

honestly I'm a heretical 10th ed liker

its certainly not flawless

but overall its a win imo

[vital barn]

my general opinion on 10th is that it takes far too much of a buzzsaw to any semblance of crunchy listbuilding and customisability in the name of balance, but admittedly that's also my opinion of HH3e, which I much prefer because it does it less

if I was asked to voltron my favourite edition together I'd just start tearing various extremities off HH1e and bolting them onto 3e's core rules

maybe rework the scoring system a bit because it can be a little jank

[spice flicker]

I actually liked 10th edition tbh.

[floral herald]

I like a lot of stuff 10e does and dislike a lot of stuff it’s predecessors did

But I also think they removed too much wargear choices

I LOVE chopping down the number of stratagems though

[jaunty dawn]

I kinda like detachments but only a few of them really do it well

[vital barn]

it has gotten to the point where a lot of the units feel more like a generic statblock with MTG card art on top of them than the actual unit

[thin ibex]

I do agree that 10th probably shaved off a lot and thats a worthy criticism. I think that was a cost of making the game significantly more accessible; which I really like. If I was forecasting wanting changes, i wouldn't mind incremental increases of reintroducing some crunch.

[vital barn]

why are my combi-meltas the same as my combi-flamers, these are very different weapons

[thin ibex]

The other thing I would want to see is a reduction in power creep, which is a constant battle with the game and new units

[vital barn]

it feels a bit ersatz

[jaunty dawn]

With meltas being nerfed

[thin ibex]

because I do not like games of "everything has a 4++ and everything has a million shots"