Warhammer and Such

[charred bridge]

Also the politics of navigators is like games of thrones plus

[vital barn]

Astropaths do rather worse for themselves but can at least live to old age, if the books are any indication

[charred bridge]

Even if you don't choose to engage you'll be used as a pawn of another household anyways

Astropath you usually don't have to play politics just from being one, someone comes in and unless you're like the lead astropath you just do the thing

If a named character charges the chambers and demands a call must be made against protocol, that's your lead astropath's issue

[desert jay]

Though it might be your issue three "named character barges in" incidents later

[charred bridge]

There isn't a situation where a named character would be better for you

[broken dew]

true

[thin ibex]

i feel like astropaths live long the same way jerry working the night shift lives a long time

like they are like 30 but look 70

[broken dew]

getting to live a life at all is pretty good

[rare turtle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1371866163650363535/1432022733868236970/20251026_160147.jpg?ex=68ff8a99&is=68fe3919&hm=e19944390ddbb0ae73aa19108e1cb4bf6a2d986255bb68b7e9c60dbf90babceb&

we are getting there

[finite compass]

Not suspicious at all.

We love the Emperor and his normal number of arms.

[charred bridge]

The 3 eyed emperor

[stark cypress]

"Savant! Check if the Three-Eyed Emperor is a nom de plume for The Gene Cult!"

"Yes, Lord Inquisitor!"

"And bring me my lucky helmet...Something in the tarot said I would need it."

[vital barn]

was pondering how to do an aesthetically cohesive admech army when I saw this

battleclade servitor bodies all round would make things much nicer, wonderful

cult mech squad go

[past sphinx]

the list did infact do well

headtakers hit like a fuck ton of bricks

picked up a 20 man squad of beast boys and beast boss with something like 22 dev wounds

and a pile of lethal hits from beastslayers

[thin ibex]

hell yeah

[stark cypress]

Oh wow

[rocky shale]

Crusade is over!

Final record 10-2

[floral herald]

wow nice

[past sphinx]

also may i say

playing with hills kicks ass

[runic swallow]

Hills! Sightlines! Maneuver! High ground! woooo!

[rocky shale]

I was playing CK

Lost only to IG tank spam and EC with the crazy crusade drugs

[thin ibex]

honestly the biggest win for 10th was much better terrain rules

[past sphinx]

i dont need to win, i just need to keep the top of that damn hill for 5 turns!

[tranquil ivy]

anyone got any ideas what helmets i should use on these fellas? the basic Bladeguard helms dont feel fitting on them

[sour sequoia]

MkIII would go nice

[tranquil ivy]

yea i thought so too, though i thought the helmets looked a little small

I've been looking at some dragon skull helmets

[past sphinx]

https://www.target.com/p/games-workshop-dawn-of-war-onslaught-board-game/-/A-94739548

honored of the chapter for like 1/3rd the price

[pastel rampart]

Oh, that's...shockingly inexpensive.

WOW okay the actual Honored of the Chapter box is $170, lmao holy shit

[spice flicker]

Would this be an interesting idea for a tabletop simulator crusade force: build around the Shamblerot Vectorium Death Guard detachment and try to build around spamming poxwalkers.

[rocky shale]

Depends on if you find poxwalkers interesting

[sour sequoia]

The answers to this lay in the question of how life-altering a high you get from moveblocking people off objectives

[spice flicker]

Initial idea:

[rocky shale]

That many poxwalkers and no typhus is a crime

[sour sequoia]

You will have zero kill power, I’d grab typhus and blightlords or a plaguemarine stack in a rhino

It works, but you made a DG list with zero kill power lmao

[rocky shale]

Yeah the cultists seem kinda pointless

I've never seen a DG player run Helbrute either

[spice flicker]

I didnt include typhus in the initial idea was because I am hesistant about using epic heroes in crusade but I know the appeal. I did have another idea for a death guard crusade force that was so poxwalker focused and this is it.

[pale narwhal]

That’s so obscenely cheap that even at like. Scalped prices it might be cheaper than the actual set

God, now I’m sad about prices

A single redemptor dread is almost the same price as a start collecting box was when I started playing

[desert jay]

When did you start playing?

[pale narwhal]

2015

Start collecting boxes were 165$ NZ

A redemptor is currently 158$ NZ

[spice flicker]

How's this as a replacement for the initial idea for the poxwalker Crusade? It ended up being quite a vehicle heavy list ot seems.

[pastel rampart]

I started in 3e and the core box (SM vs Deldar) that came with the big core book was $50.

[dense idol]

fuckin' brexit, man

[pale narwhal]

(Using past inflation rates that 165 would now be about 223$, which is still like. A redemptor and 2/3rds of a character in nzd)

[dense idol]

I can very rarely bring myself to purchase any kind of miniature at rrp

it's all ebay dumpster diving for me, thanks

[pastel rampart]

GW has always increased prices but even in the early 2000s the prices weren't that crazy, the starter boxes were always great values. That stopped happening like...15 years ago.

[floral herald]

Honestly the 3e box isn’t that crazy

It’s $100 inflation adjusted but Leviathan ($200) has substantially more models in it

I expected it to be more

(72 vs 41 models)

[pale narwhal]

Yeah I’m pretty much over buying directly from gw

Like I just can’t justify the price now, pretty much (the exception is probably the christmas boxes bc that is a guaranteed 30% discount)

[rocky shale]

Why the cultists?

Also that list is very Predator heavy and very lacking in marines or terminators, which you need for damage output

[spice flicker]

Backfield objective holders and deep strike screening.

[sour sequoia]

If you’re not pressing up the board on DG people will abuse you back

Plague Marines & Blightlords flip any units smaller than Rhinos in overwatch, they’re so overscaled on damage

Best screen you can ask for in DG is the poop factory and then stickying home round 1 & bouncing

IIRC two tallymen and poop factory fully screens any deployment besides dawn of war

[floral herald]

Poop factory?

[sour sequoia]

The stupid fortification in DG

Because its like a 9x12 footprint with 12” no deepstrike

[floral herald]

Oh the weird hut thing?

https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k10ed/img//MiasmicMalignifier.png

[sour sequoia]

GW wanted to make sure literally every datasheet in DG is the most annoying shit you’ve ever seen

[valid brook]

lmao what the fuck is this

[floral herald]

Seeing it again poop factory is about right

[rocky shale]

Yeah DG is too slow to not be moving forward every turn

[sour sequoia]

Death Guard players demand your respect for this

[valid brook]

brb just cooking up some poop in the poop factory

[pale narwhal]

poop factory so foul it stops deepstrike

[sour sequoia]

The community copy in our LGS has a freehanded/kitbashed sign on it for a rival game store in the state infamous for Gamer Stank

[rocky shale]

Damn, imagine being the stinkiest store in a state

[sour sequoia]

Montana wargaming is wild because you carry beef with neighbors farther away than half the EU’s entire countries

Woke up at 3am and drove 6 hours each way to an RTT once

This was in fact The Stank Store

[rocky shale]

Real sickos

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/1432476145131061400/20251027_170739.jpg?ex=690130df&is=68ffdf5f&hm=efc0154a5100fac44d2a1aa43c197e957c3388bcef784129cb465a42519af6c1&

Seems like the printer issue is resolved because these 20mm > 25mm conversion trays printed out flawlessly.

Adjusting the heat bed seemed to do the trick. It was on 70c the whole time and that was causing warping issues and such, but once I lowered it to about 62c for the first layer and 60c for the rest of the print I've had no problems.

[broken dew]

nice

[pastel rampart]

Each corner does kinda lift up a tiny bit but I'm tossing that up to just how thin these are, really.

[mild glen]

Aw, man. Why couldn't they announce blood bowl next week?

[untold swallow]

I am going to play a mute and very festooned Raptor tactical marine in an Oath of Moment one shot tomorrow lol

master-crafted stalker boltgun, another normal boltgun courtesy of a pair of maglocks, bolt pistol & combat knife, whisper bolts to make the boltgun and bolt pistol silent, a camelioline cloak, a frag, a krak, and two smokes

also the combat load advance so both main boltguns have 9 fuckin mags lmao

[rare turtle]

It’s getting there

[cinder wraith]

joining a 40k dumb list pair tournament

idk whos my pair but this is my side of the list

detachment is soulforged

[pale narwhal]

that is an incredibly funny list

[cinder wraith]

warpsmith has the 10" move too

so im going for the max funny

[pale narwhal]

brass scorpions are so cool tbh

probably my #1 daemon engine

[sour sequoia]

Honestly thats about how you wanna do duos

I’m pairing with an IK player to hit em with outlander claw But Real Kill Power this time, two fuckin Knight Crusaders

[pastel rampart]

Hell yeah this printed out great

[sour sequoia]

👁️👁️👁️👁️

[sour sequoia]

Hooo thats a good sculpt

[pastel rampart]

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/fukai-scatter-terrain-21-30-chaotic-alien-hive-for-grimdark-tabletop-wargaming And free!

[sour sequoia]

I’m a lil jealous aint see any of the tyranid terrain here yet

OH HELL YEAH

slim always comin through

[pastel rampart]

I'm sure with a lot of resin you could print this much smoother but this was with an 0.4mm needle on a 0.2mm setting and like...some sanding should buff out the layer lines, probably.

You can see them more here with a close-up.

[junior robin]

finally, power mace primaris Lieutenant.

the more I look at it the weirder it gets, the middle looks like glass/crystal, got 4 spindly support struts over it and the handle have 2 bits that look high-tech but not the iconic power weapon box/cable 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

Little lightning effect too

[wet grotto]

If you use automotive filler primer you probably wont even need to sand that

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, it's what I'm thinking. Maybe smooth it out with acetone and a microfiber towel.

[wet grotto]

I print deck boxes with the same settings and the filler does the whole shebang for me, havent fucked with acetone smoothing but id imagine itd work just as well

[pastel rampart]

Though that may be better suited for flatter/rounded surfaces.

As it is I'm pleasantly surprised by the results, and especially how fast it printed. Took like...3 hours.

[broken dew]

thinking i will perhaps do another drawing for my chapter

just need to name the leader of their tech marines

[rocky shale]

You can generally do down to 0.08mm on a 0.4mm nozzle

[pastel rampart]

Ah, good to know. That'll probably get it real smooth.

I'm printing out the hull of a rhino right now to test flat surfaces and generally big boxy shape.

[broken dew]

damn did the techmarines really have to have all red armor

[junior robin]

there are some chapters that does non-full blue librarians (only one shoulder plate) so probably could do that with techies

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/KD0t2/2e0f386f63.png

lol I ain't printing a tyranid spire for 12 hours

BUT ALSO good to know for smaller prints.

[mental birch]

Do note that the thing that make techmarines techmarines

Is that theyre fully ordained techpriests

[broken dew]

perhaps

but also my lads already have a red arm

[floral herald]

The big colors of the mechanicus vestments are red white and black, but red is the only one which doesn't collide with other space marine specialist colors

In principle divergent chapters could probably have white or black armor techmarines

[pastel rampart]

Hmmmm.

[thin ibex]

this seems like a narrow rhino

[pastel rampart]

Well I didn't print out the sides, hah.

But it is just about 1:1 with the RT-era rhino, sides notwithstanding.

[junior robin]

finally, snubnose bolters

[pastel rampart]

Yeah lol

The supports kinda mucked that up a bit but, so it goes. Easy enough to fix.

This is just a test piece so I'm not too concerned with quality here.

[west zealot]

It's the new Longboy model, Named for Barkham Longboy.

[thin ibex]

Still fits 12 marines in it somehow

Turns out marines are compressable

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1069705345146040451/1432797149971615865/IMG_4604.png?ex=69025bd4&is=69010a54&hm=3c81e41ddfa01785befc8efc7dc59c939a35b1b698299da41e04ae447d15a3dc&

[deft crest]

The brass scorpion looks cool as hell. I don't know how I didn't know about this before

[vital barn]

it is very pretty

and also a total monster

due to the way it's statted in 30k it doesn't give a fuck about any of the standard anti-tank options and will happily eat its way through the enemy army at a steady pace while ignoring any and all return fire that isn't like, 10 termies and a primarch punching it for multiple rounds

[broken dew]

what the fuck are the Iron Hands even doing???

[charred bridge]

Classic iron hands

[pale narwhal]

incredibly weird things, apparently

[charred bridge]

Iron Hands make ad mech Magos seem sane with their augments at times.

Ferrus would be rolling in his grave

[brittle salmon]

being awesome

[broken dew]

was looking at Iron Father names for inspo for the head Techmarine of my chapter and i came across that

the Iron Hands are fucking weirdos

i named the Tech Marine guy Wolfrahm Zecht

or because my lads all get extravagant titles, Lord Artificier Constructor Wolfrahm Zecht

also yeah i super looked at Iron Father Feirros and also Ferrus Manus and just named my lad after metal as well

GW doesn't need to be subtle about it and neither do i

[charred bridge]

The Imperial Fist named Slaughter

[broken dew]

yeah

if GW can do Slaughter and Ferrus Manus i can do Wolfrahm

[charred bridge]

Jaghaitai Khan

[broken dew]

honored be his name

[charred bridge]

The least subtle Primarch name, you wouldnt believe it but he's mongol themed

[broken dew]

shocked and awed

idk Ferrus Manus is pretty bad

Primarch Iron Hand of the Iron Hands legion

he has iron hands

but yeah i'm happy with Wolfrahm Zecht

honestly i'm quite pleased with all my names lads

Gloom Lord Abachyle Phayne; The Duskbreaker. Lord Vigilant Rector Immagan Loque; The Warptracker, Gloom Master of the First Company Ghaumagan Vhyal, Venerable Ancient Dreadnought Arystichor; The Earthscorcher, Venerable Ancient Dreadnought Siegfrid; The Wingbane

i like names as you may perhaps be able to tell

[sour sequoia]

They got a bitch named Crow Crow of The Raven Guard, Wolfrahm Zecht sounds downright reasonable

[broken dew]

i appreciate the validation

gonna give him a robotic arm and knee, i think it'll look cool

[sour sequoia]

There is so much superglue on my hands folks dont try to build these fuckers in one session

6 hours and 240 parts

[broken dew]

wowie, Saturnine Dreadnought!

[sour sequoia]

Shoulders McGee himself

Third one I’ve built and I never wanna do it again lmao

[rocky shale]

You don't use plastic glue?

[untold swallow]

Don't forget his flagship the Fist of Iron

[broken dew]

the fucking Fist of Iron 😭

This is Iron hand, primarch of the iron hands. He has iron hands, his favourite ship is called the iron hand

[vital barn]

meanwhile there are also wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf and blood blood blood blood blood

the BA are slightly less bad but they are still a bit Bloodedge the Griffin

[broken dew]

ok this is looking pretty nice, gonna omit the scale pattern off the shoulders so i can put some heraldry on there

[vital barn]

honestly I can't think of many legions that don't super overdo their theme

[broken dew]

also i did put all of my lads in rare and old armor but i also regret absolutely nothing

[vital barn]

the Dark Angels, pre-heresy EC and White Scars aren't so bad, I suppose

[broken dew]

Storm Priests time

[vital barn]

traitors seem to be better at it

[broken dew]

at least it's not the fucking Rune Priests

[vital barn]

the WE are busy wearing out the words "blood" and "skulls" instead of their legion imagery

I guess the Alphas can overegg the snake thing a bit sometimes

scales all over the place

[broken dew]

snakes

the snakes are also Alpharius

remember that one time they made it rain snakes on that one planet

[vital barn]

I do quite like that half the AL marine spreads we get in the HH campaign book art sections look more like this

[broken dew]

and literally millions of people died to being bit by venomous snakes

[broken dew]

that sure was a fucking thing

[vital barn]

"hello, I too understand... horse?"

[broken dew]

i've been pulling from those HH campaign books for all the art i'm using to mockup my lads actually

[vital barn]

the old AL art has these really neat hazard stripe bolters

I'm tempted to give it a go on mine

but I'm not sure I can make it suitably heresy-gritty

[broken dew]

ooh

i do kinda like the contrast

[vital barn]

the guy on the front of Legion has a nice take on it, it's very subdued

would have to do some test guns

[broken dew]

although those AL's are wearing a different kind of blue than what i associate with the AL

they look almost like Ultramarines

[vital barn]

canonically they change it up all the goddamn time, even if the standard version has now settled on that pretty metallic blue

[broken dew]

they probably repaint it for infiltration constantly

[vital barn]

but deep blue with light green decorations was the IRL-older scheme, it's why you see a lot of Chaos AL armies with green trim

[broken dew]

ic ic

[vital barn]

I don't think the cool thing people do with "decloaking" models actually appears in canon anywhere but it looks great

[broken dew]

it does yeah

[vital barn]

the closest we get are the Inductii, who are canonically used for the more unsubtle kind of false flag attacks

since they're not trained enough to be gigabrain

their rules mean that they can't be shot at on the first turn of the game, which can be incredibly funny

[broken dew]

lol

[broken dew]

gonna do the lineart and coloring for this tomorrow

prolly draw Arystichor after

be nice to have both him and Siegfrid together

[west zealot]

Noodle boy Marines

[west zealot]

Okay, but consider, this means he's got a pull switch near his mouth to start his teeth up

Like just a goofier chainsaw man.

"Come closer, chaos, so I can BITE YOU"

[broken dew]

true

it's comically stupid in the grimdark 40k way innit

[sour sequoia]

Sometimes. Plastic glue you can’t undo is the thing, superglue can be undone. I’ve got subassemblies in here that are plastic glue, but everything I wasn’t dead certain on was superglue, so I could go back and freeze rhe model n pop em off if I needed to.

[untold swallow]

Hey wasn't there a term in Titanfall for an Ion shooting a pilot out of the air with its little laser thing?

Was it 'goosing'?

(this is 40k related I swear)

[broken dew]

after trying to un-glue some gunpla stuff i will never fuck with superglue for models again

i will simply prepare everything for cement, it's just not worth consorting with the vile power of super glue

[rocky shale]

ah fair

[west zealot]

Some where there is an Ork Mek having a breakdown because he just heard about this guy, and it's the best thing, and he's gotta one up him

[untold swallow]

Okay it is goosing

[broken dew]

lmao

[untold swallow]

I played in an Oath of Moment testing oneshot today and two of my Ultra successor buddies got goosed by a Sentinel with a plasma cannon after jumping out of the back of a lander

[broken dew]

honestly i think they mean he replaced his teeth with the teeth of a chainsword or something

but it's funnier to imagine he has a mouth full of tiny masterwork chainsaws

[west zealot]

Eventually he shall invent the ultimate bionk: chaintusks.

[broken dew]

i really do think this is what they actually mean

having spiky metal teeth wouldn't be the weirdest thing ever

[broken dew]

but this is funnier to consider

[west zealot]

I agree

On both counts

Someone on Reddit was suggesting he'd have vents on either side of this head to eject the chainsawed matter

[broken dew]

lmao

[broken dew]

for this guy i think it'd be funny if the eye without the lenses was like

a laser eye

you think he's got the one cybernetic eye thing going on

but his other eye is actually a stealth bionic and it can shoot lasers

[past sphinx]

like yarrick

[broken dew]

yah

[past sphinx]

give him 2

[broken dew]

also perhaps all his limbs are cybernetic but he just wears armor over most of them for misdirection

i still have no idea why space marines don't wear armor over their cybernetics

are imperial cybernetics really so robust

[past sphinx]

god i love that yarrick had a custom blasta, eye of gork (or mork) and a power claw

the man was a true warboss

[broken dew]

Yarrick the GOAT

Gaz better get the runback for him

[past sphinx]

the borg may just have better sensors than helmet

[broken dew]

i feel like leaving your robot hand with all its servos and shit out in the open is just asking for it to break though

like Wolfrahm probably has his out so nobody questions his cred

[past sphinx]

it may be a sign of devotion and loyality

[broken dew]

also the knee

took that from a Iron Hand image

[past sphinx]

like "hey look i got blasted to fuck and im still spitting bolts"

[broken dew]

lemme expose my fucking robot knee real quick

wear armor over it? i don't think so

[floral herald]

Getting the runback on being old?

[broken dew]

yes

[past sphinx]

gotta let the hotti tech preists know you know your way bit of tech'

[pastel rampart]

Imperial cybernetics are considered fairly robust but especially space marine ones, because it has to at least match their transhuman physiology and replace their previously functional limb.

[broken dew]

i'm sure he could do it

[pastel rampart]

Naturally, Iron Hands overtune their shit.

[broken dew]

i believe in da prophet o Gork and Mork

[past sphinx]

Yarrick gets his final victory by dying peacefully in his bed

one big fuck you to the green menace

kinda like it

[broken dew]

also i love how the fucking leg has like

springs

on his foot

bro has fucking suspension on his robot foot 😂

got those preem shock absorbers

[past sphinx]

Lift kit.

[broken dew]

lift kit lmao

[pastel rampart]

Gotta get that extra lift when he does an Iron Rider Kick.

https://tenor.com/view/kamen-rider-stronger-kamen-rider-gangaru-rider-kick-explode-gif-12389609899476887894

[broken dew]

but yeah i think i'll just have him go full cybernetics on the limbs and hide them with armor

[past sphinx]

oh to be a tv pyro tech in 80s japanese tv

[broken dew]

the most locked in job ever ngl

those pyro techs were fucking cooking

there is perhaps no better time to exist as a pyro tech than quarries in 80's japan

pondering what to do with Techmarines for the Dusk Defiant

i surmise it will involve uh, counter brainwashing

i don't think divided loyalties would really be a thing they'd allow

[vital barn]

it is going to be very hard to get Mars to train your boys if the chapter decides that they're going to brainwash them until they are no longer faithful when they get back from 30 year seminary

[broken dew]

this is quite true

tbh it's not even a faith issue

it's just like, the chapter secrets

[floral herald]

The usual line for paranoiac chapters is just to keep techmarines a little on the margins

[broken dew]

yeah

[vital barn]

this does make it hard to maintain all your relic gear

[floral herald]

I think they’re not usually Inner Circle for DA for the easy one

[broken dew]

i mean the chapter will be having a artificer tradition

[vital barn]

the Dark Angels get a pass because they have four relics per square centimetre but everyone else has to actually work for that stuff

[floral herald]

(But also it helps a lot that all the DA secrets are HR, and not operations)

[broken dew]

so pretty much all marines in the chapter are taught to do some level of maintenance

but since they also do their level best to hoard as much ancient and decrepit shit as possible

they do also sort of fucking need techmarines

[vital barn]

it's not relic equipment if lay-battle-brother johnnicus can fix it, yeah

[broken dew]

not telling the techmarines any of the chapter culture would also just be

bad

freezing them out of the brotherhood is not really a good idea

[vital barn]

what exactly are these guys keeping secret other than them being Death Guard successors?

[broken dew]

just that mostly

[vital barn]

because I see no reason that this would be a secret that they'd be particularly inclined to spill to Mars

[floral herald]

The admech probably don't really care that much about that stuff

[vital barn]

Mars doesn't give a fuck

[floral herald]

And geneseed providence is apparently pretty hard to trace

[broken dew]

i guess they wouldn't be particularly pressed about some loyalists having a weird background

[vital barn]

the dual loyalty of techmarines is a problem if your secret is something like "we've got a titan in a vault that we hack into for ancient knowledge" or whatever

[broken dew]

oh nah, they do have lots of old shit but it's just like

armor

some marine weapons

[floral herald]

There's a bunch of chapters who don't even know their geneseed despite tithing it

[broken dew]

frankly they'd be more inclined to just give anything important up to the mechanicus if they'd get first dibs on any old armor shit they find

[floral herald]

The problem is most likely to be other chapters

[vital barn]

you can just have normal techmarines, then

[broken dew]

great success

[floral herald]

Since they've actually got the history and opinions needed to ID and dislike death guard

[vital barn]

Mars trains everyone's techies and presumably has some form of neutrality policy on chapter beef and not letting the initiates kill each other over some bullshit while they're there

[broken dew]

makes sense

thank you The Mechanicus, very cool of you not to rat us out to the inquisition, praise be to the Omnissiah

[vital barn]

(I also suspect some techmarines are not actually trained on Mars, purely because that would be kind of dumb if you live one jump from Metallica)

[past sphinx]

consider tho

mars is a nest of assholes

[vital barn]

I mean, don't go talking about it where the priests can hear you, but a battle-brother who is a priest has no holy duty to tell all the other priests

like he does for archaotech or what have you

[floral herald]

Huh I didn't think about the techmarine summer camp experience

[vital barn]

some Legion techmarines show up briefly in Cybernetica before the heresy happens

where they're being put through beep boop shoothouses to test their hacking-under-fire skills and what have you

the rest of that book is very boring but it was a fun first act

[broken dew]

do Mechanicus lads yoink broken space marine armors and such if they find them or is that sort of a not my clown not my circus thing

[floral herald]

The admech do like taking things

[vital barn]

they probably do, that's valuable gear, but they're not taking them off space marines

[floral herald]

But space marine stuff is probably for later exchange of gifts or something

[broken dew]

yeah

cause i imagine if they have old armors laying around the Dusk Defiant would be very willing to give them cool things they find

[vital barn]

they're not above raiding a chapter if said chapter has some big fancy relic, they do it to the Soul Drinkers in the Soul Drinkers books

but regular stuff, nah

that relic was a big lightning spear thing that Dorn used in the Great Crusade, so a step above a suit of spare Cataphractii

[broken dew]

The Dusk Defiant like to raid space hulks so i imagine they might find some shiny stuff to trade

my kingdom for a suit of Iron Armor or perhaps a cataphract

[vital barn]

oh yeah they will happily take toys off your hands if you're willing to exchange them for "polite gifts to our generous friends" but if you try to go "this is ours and we're not giving it to you unless you bribe us" they will be very mad and probably send in something killy

think of it like diplomacy with Imperial China

[broken dew]

i mean honestly unless it's heavy relic armor or like, a really nice space marine sized gun i doubt they'd care much

The Dusk Defiant have their niche and they are perfectly content to stick to it

[vital barn]

they know you're holding out for a freighter full of cool loot, you know you're holding out for a freighter full of loot, don't say it outright because it's not kosher to withhold archaotech from Mars

[broken dew]

i don't see there being much overlap between their obsession with tanky armor and whatever gubbins the mechanicum really want unless it's like, a important space marine relic

[vital barn]

I see no reason why a bunch of marines who spend half their lives raiding old battlefields for ancient wargear wouldn't be in tight with some Explorators

[broken dew]

yeah

that was my thought

[vital barn]

so you could always have some similar-minded techpriest allies who show up to make more friendly trades and swap tips

[broken dew]

unless they find some crazy primarch relic or something that has cultural significance greater than its practical value i don't think it would ever really be a problem

[vital barn]

I find "my chapter has a close relationship with this particular small group" works better than "yeah the whole mechanicus likes us" because the whole Mechanicus barely holds any opinions

or to be more precise holds fifty contradictory opinions at once, on everything

[sour sequoia]

Every time I look at mechanicus lore it looks like rabbinical arguments

[broken dew]

i'm sure Dorns boys would be mad if someone found their dads stuff and the mechanicus yoinked it but the Dusk Defiant don't like their dad

[vital barn]

I keep wanting to adapt the story about telling God he doesn't have jurisdiction to binharic

especially since the Omnissiah is on Terra and actually doesn't in some cases, at least before M31

[broken dew]

not only do they not like their dad but they also don't really care about the other peoples dads either

[vital barn]

some of them are busy doing the catholic/protestant split instead but they're all pathologically schismatic

hmm

new battleship name, Schismatic Pathologist

[broken dew]

Yeh it's always better to go with smaller groups for most stuff

The Dusk Defiant does get away with having some feuds for psyker hating reasons tho

One-sided mostly but

Still flavor

[vital barn]

my favourite justification for Mechanicum fighting Custodes remains "look, you're not the Omnissiah even if you're both gold, get Him to come out here and tell us Himself"

[broken dew]

Lol

[desert jay]

Yeah IIRC the biggest marker is geneseed flaws and IIRC there’s only like 4 legions with notable flaws before the heresy broke out

[vital barn]

since the Custodes are very Terran, and only Emps himself actually unites the Old Mech and the Old Imperium

[broken dew]

Yeah not a lot of those flaws really going around

[vital barn]

(nowadays they're both Adeptus [something] so there's a bit more of an excuse for jurisdiction, although it's still stretched extremely thin)

[desert jay]

The blood thirst, the flesh change, and Salamanders and Raven Guard pigmentation stuff which don’t have special names

[past sphinx]

fucking werewolfism

[desert jay]

Oh right and the werewolfism

[past sphinx]

i feel like as a whole not enough is mentioned about the entire section of space marines that turn into werewolves

[desert jay]

I meant the Tsons flesh change that Ahriman tried to solve with the Rubricae

[vital barn]

it probably helps that until the Primaris showed up there were quite literally three figures of space wolves in the entire galaxy

no successors who hadn't eaten shit, no possibility to make more and a fairly heavy casualty rate

and also stuck to one fairly underpopulated planet for recruitment

[desert jay]

Yeah Space Wolves and Raven Guard and Salamanders all had low successor numbers, so you’re not seeing their obvious geneseed all over the place

[vital barn]

wolves are especially rare, though, since Magnus removed their ability to have any successors

[desert jay]

Blood Angels successors meanwhile can’t resist putting blood or flesh or crimson or sanguine or whatever in their name, so you barely need to check

[vital barn]

something something neutered the wolves

[broken dew]

Get bent wolf men

[broken dew]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Atlantian_Spears

[floral herald]

I was under the impression the Swolfs were pretty significantly overstrength prior to the Disasters of the 41st millenium

Albeit not enough to keep up with the really fecund chapters

[broken dew]

There are outlier BA successors

Like the Atlantian Spears

[desert jay]

There are some exceptions of course

[vital barn]

The wolves bounce back and forth between being huge and tiny depending on the book but you're probably right

[desert jay]

And then Tsons? I think there’s exactly one loyalist successor and it’s the Grey Knights

[vital barn]

In Wolftime they're at the tail end of a slow bleedout and are at half strength or even below, in earlier 41M books they seem OK

[past sphinx]

wolftime is also not a very good book

[desert jay]

Because their funkiness now turns any non-psyker into dust

[brittle salmon]

wolftime seems a little shit yah

[broken dew]

Blood Ravens perhaps

[vital barn]

It isn't, but I don't think it's bad enough to be condemned to the vortex of noncanoicity like the one with Slaaneshi Farseers or something

[broken dew]

They've got a suspicious amount of psykers

[vital barn]

apart from the bit about Wolves being too broke for bolt rounds

That's just silly

[broken dew]

That is very funny

And stupid

[past sphinx]

on one hand there are books that are written by SW fans and you can tell

on the other i think it was written by a UM player

[vital barn]

Fallen DA Dipshits 1-50 have managed to find ammo in the Lion book and they're considerably worse off

[broken dew]

If the bloody Space Wolves are too impoverished to afford bolt rounds i don't want to imagine what the Marines Malevolent have going on

[past sphinx]

crime

bricks

pointed sticks

[broken dew]

Since their standard armor is still fucking Corvus armor

[vital barn]

It would be funny if heavy bolts are way more common than Astartes bolts because the Guard staples them everywhere

Infinite cans of too-big ammo

[desert jay]

But, crucially, they also have perfectly normal non-psykers

[past sphinx]

first founding chapter, halls of relics, oldest kinda living marine, kinda have a backbone and a sorta normal on a lotta things

[broken dew]

True enough i suppose

[past sphinx]

god that books annoyed me

why was it even called The wolftime

[desert jay]

Meanwhile GKs are 100% psykers no non-psykers allowed

[vital barn]

Gaius was cool and the Custodian was cool, not really much else worthwhile in Wolftime

Although I really thought Gaius' arc would have ended in "fuck you all I'm making a successor chapter" since they were talking it up so much

[broken dew]

Straight up wolfing it, and by it, lets just say, my time

Alternating between the thoughts that the space wolves are the dumbest chapter in 40k and one of the coolest

[floral herald]

I read that passage as less impovrishment and more weird elitism

We're too good to waste bolts on targets

I think GK are moderately confirmed to be some kind of weird chimeric blend now

[pastel rampart]

Discussion about Cowboy Marines was mentioned in a different discord I'm a part of and the eventual conclusion was 'belt fed lever-action heavy bolt rifle' which is I think exactly the right amount of dumb cool for 40K

[broken dew]

silently adds another tally to the "space wolves are the dumbest chapter in 40k" counter

[vital barn]

this is my take on Custodes, actually

[broken dew]

Fair

[vital barn]

it's why I oscillate between "man these guys are too proud of themselves by half, I will murder them in battle" and "these guys are fun, I want to bounce techpriests off their weird gear and see what social interactions fall out"

[broken dew]

Mhm

The big reason i like the Lamenters and Marines Malevolent is cause they are like

The unambiguous logical conclusions of either side of the loyalist space marine morality slider

The Lamenter's are good to a fault even at their own cost which they pay constantly

And the Marines Malevolent are such ABSOLUTE SHITLORDS that literally nobody likes them, most people outright refuse to fight alongside them, and all their gear is old and breaking because nobody wants to trade them new stuff

[runic swallow]

They’re one of the only people on the Mechanicus’ Do Not Resupply list

[broken dew]

Yeah

I live that for them

They have the countenance of a chaos warband

It's great

[runic swallow]

On the official “You Know What, Fuck These Guys” list

[desert jay]

I think there's another point on the triangle and it's the Minotaurs, perfect brutal tools of the Imperium writ large

[runic swallow]

Not writ large, specifically the High Lords hatchet men

They get sent in to do the army part of the response to “oh yeah? You and what army?”

[desert jay]

Ah yes, the High Lords, just the highest (active) governing body in the Imperium

[runic swallow]

Well, considering all the internecine conflicts, it’s an important distinction

[broken dew]

i think the Minotaurs are kinda funny cause they're literally just bullies

they show up at full chapter strength to beat the piss out of weaker or weakened chapters

[pastel rampart]

Second one is on the right, much better results.

[broken dew]

very nice

[pastel rampart]

The guns are a little fucky but like, I can just chop'em off and replace them with plastic or resin ones.

Not sure why there's lines on the hatch doors there but easy enough to sand off, I reckon.

[untold swallow]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/L3KlJr

This is the vibe the successor chapter I'm playing an Oath of Moment character for has

Celtic beast hunters

[cinder wraith]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faqing?useskin=vector

who let out a khornate into chinese history??

[marsh tree]

Finally wrote down my Horus Heresy American Pie parody
https://archiveofourown.org/works/73323461

[rare turtle]

Wexan paint now

[broken dew]

quite pleased with the way i decided to do the techmarine red thing

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/1433214546075586732/20251029_180057.jpg?ex=6903e08f&is=69028f0f&hm=5be33384755f8598e16864841b770d5cb3abd4dd9ab735494c68bd87d0cf8f5e&

Well. Sure don't know what caused this disparity. Both printed at the same time.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/1433214639851835513/20251029_180149.jpg?ex=6903e0a5&is=69028f25&hm=81495b454fd253116fd978e6f6ad006942ebbace28a8e7c490d8d9548fc3219f&

[rocky shale]

Leak for probably something related to the end of edition stuff

[vital barn]

that is a very boring logo

invading ultramar for the 5000th time?

[rocky shale]

I'll put up with more ultramarines if it gives us combat patrol but good

[sour sequoia]

Can I take the inverse of that where combat patrol is dogshit forever but we just delete ultramarines

[rocky shale]

That's OK too

Boarding patrol sweep

[sour sequoia]

Someday we’ll stop having a tutorial army with 60% WR literally all edition

[rocky shale]

Boarding patrol but cardboard terrain would have been perfect

[thin ibex]

i would really love a redux on combat patrol, because i love the concept, but the excecution was weak

self contained, ready to play, small scale armies is actually super interesting an a niche that warhammer doesnt really hit well atm

[rocky shale]

Spearhead for AoS is good

I haven't played yet but boarding actions seems neat too

[thin ibex]

its also a nice format for skill expression in that, if done right; the unit selection doesn't change, just how you play

[rocky shale]

Regardless it is a pretty cool necron box

[desert jay]

I actually like Ultramarines but think they should paint the starter set SMs in other color schemes besides blue all the time

[desert jay]

Also yeah basically, and it fails as a intro game format because the sets are not well balanced against each other

And it fails as a start collecting combo box line because it's <25% of an 2k army and it's a coinflip if would you recommend two boxes of it in a list

[vital barn]

I miss you, old Start Collecting Skitarii box

45 GBP, all gold units

buy three, add two units of Kataphrons, there's your 7e army

[rocky shale]

The 9th Ed admech combat patrol was just this with 3kataphrons and a different leader lol

[vital barn]

yeah that one's also very good

no idea how good they are these days but skittles, onagers, couple of techpriests and some tank boys is a (fairly slow) army right there

[rocky shale]

It's solid but you probably don't want multiple enginseers

Vs like a dominus

[desert jay]

Also the 9e-10e updates to combat patrol sting because the boxes almost all got smaller and didn't even have the courtesy of staying the same price point

[sour sequoia]

The admech combat patrol is fine but its also like… just an itty bitty fraction of what you want in an admech army

I keep eyeing it because I’m debating admech second army

[vital barn]

admech still costs a billionty pounds

I still don't have any Ironstriders

just crabtanks and lancers

[sour sequoia]

And then I look at cost and I die inside

Hello $300 for 2x3 of one kind of walker

[desert jay]

IIRC Ironstriders/Dragoons are literally the worst $/pt model that's for 40k and not FW resin

[sour sequoia]

It makes GSC look tolerable

[vital barn]

I have four lancer boys, which was a solid unit back when

these days I think you want like six

they are total bastards to transport, though

I think all of them have lost their antennae

30k Mechanicum is actually quite good value

a fairly consistent 7 points per GBP in all the big battleforce kits

[vital barn]

why on earth would you finish playing tourney GSC and then decide "I know, I need a new army of paper chaff with high damage output and fifty overlapping buffs, that'll be a good change of pace"

[sour sequoia]

Because I want people to be afraid of me

[vital barn]

they do spark fear

[sour sequoia]

I am king fuck of shit mountain

[vital barn]

I remember the old graviton imploders

[rocky shale]

Go play seer council eldar

[vital barn]

goodbye Gulliman, see you next week

[rocky shale]

It's a real sicko detachment

[thin ibex]

I really don't mind the aspect of combat patrol being a very small army tbh. I also don't mind them being asymmetrically balanced. I just think they have a good niche of self contained play sets that are fully functional and balanced in their own tier of play.

I think the current version fails at this

[rocky shale]

The problem is more that they're also the intro discount boxes and they're substantially worse value than the 9th Ed versions

$170usd for like 300pts for guard and admech

[thin ibex]

Yeah for sure

I want them to take another crack at it, they've proven it can work with AoS's Spearhead

[rocky shale]

Ye

[desert jay]

But due to Admech pricing, it's also one of the best % discount boxes GW sells

[rocky shale]

It'd almost feel like less of a ripoff if they included a better point per dollar model at a worse % discount

[mild glen]

Okay.
So, I'm currently on a seven game losing streak. It's at the point where I can't just say "my tactics are solid, it's just bad dice rolls". (Although there are some bad dice rolls, most of my opponents have been running lots of invulnerable saves)
How do I figure out what I'm doing wrong?

[pale narwhal]

It could be your list, or it could be your piloting of the list. What are you running?

[mild glen]

Scoreboards... and...

Current iteration of List:
Strike Team w/ Ethereal
(Gun, Guardian // Gun Gun
2x Breacher Team w/ Fireblade & Devilfish
(Gun, Guardian // Gun Gun)
1x Hammerhead
(Railgun)
1x Skyray
1x Pathfinders
(1x Rail Rifle, 2x Ion rifle. Gun, Gun, Recon)
1x Vespid Stingwings
(10-man, w/special weapons)
Krootox Rider
(Autocannon)
1x Starscythe w/ Coldstar Commander
(Double Flamers, Wingmen Gun/Shield. Leader Gun/Marker) (Leader has CIB, Flamer, Enhanced Flamer, Fallback and shoot)
1x Sunforge w/ Coldstar Commander
(Wingmen have gun/shield, Leader has gun/marker)
(Commander has Fusion Blaster, CIB, Enhanced Fusion Blaster, 4+ Invuln)
1x Fireknife w/ Enforcer Commander
(Double Plasma Rifle. Wingmen has Gun/Shield, Leader has Gun/Marker)
(Commander has 2x Plasma Rifle, CIB, Enhanced Plasma Rifle)
2x Stealth Battlesuits
(Fall Back and Shoot on the Fusion model. Marker/Gun drones)

[rocky shale]

Why do you give all your commanders a random CIB?

[mild glen]

Probably dumb reasons. I keep thinking back to the index when 6 suits with 3 CIB and a Shield gen each was the go-to.

[rocky shale]

OK so my first pass on this would probably be to drop the CIBs, ignore the shield gen (since it's only for the commander, not the whole unit), drop the sky ray, Ethereal/strike team, and kroot

You probably want to be running 6x bricks of at least some of your crisis suits if you're already giving them all leaders

Breacherfish are excellent, stealth suits are basically mandatory

Vespids I would probably run in 5s since it plays to their purpose better as an deep striking action doer

[mild glen]

Crisis suits only come in 3-person teams now.

[rocky shale]

Oh oops

Point still stands you probably want more battlesuits since half your strats only work on them

They don't all need leaders

How are you deploying/playing with this list?

[mild glen]

"Operation: buy more battlesuits" is currently on the docket.

I'm generally deploying balanced, spread out to sweep into all of no-mans land at once.
I'm learning this isn't working and in my last game, deployed to put a couple of bodies into my nearest NML objective and sweep towards Opp's.
And then was bullied off of that by a Bloodthirster and a GUO

[rocky shale]

Are you not putting your crisis suits into deep strike?

[mild glen]

Usually I put at least one there.

[rocky shale]

That's a pretty significant strength of theirs

But yeah Tau are not a walk everything straight up the board army

[mild glen]

And since units "in deep strike" are, as far as the rules care, in Reserves, I have to declare it before anybody deploys anything, right?

[rocky shale]

Yes

[mild glen]

Dangit... I can't find the reserves limit. Is it half your points or 1/4 of them?

[jaunty dawn]

Iirc there isnt one for deep strike

[pale narwhal]

initial thoughts:
ethereal really isn't great (strike teams aren't either), breacherfish are a staple, you want an ionhead in EPC not a railhead- or even better another skyray. All ion on the pathfinders is the way to go. Vespids want to be 5-man squads. The lone krootox is a fun piece, keep it in.

Now that Bring it Down has been changed you don't need to only run 2 shields per squad, run 3x and 3x gun drone on fireknife and sunforge, with 1x marker instead of a gun drone on the starscythe.

Homogenise the commander loadouts- the fall back is useless since it's a squad ability that applies to him too from the starscythes, shield isn't worth it over another fusion.

I prefer marker and shield on the stealth suits just to give them a tiny bit of survivability extra.

[jaunty dawn]

I didnt RC. 1/2 your army in both unit count and points

Its part of matched play rules

[sour sequoia]

1/4 army value in strategic reserves. Up to another 1/4 more if that pool also has deep strike.

Can cheat beyond it with the pregame Redeploy Three Units ability

You should basically always be reserving at least one crisis squad, which one it is will vary based on opfor

Hi I play GSC im king of deepstrike mountain whatcha need

[pale narwhal]

if you drop the ethereal, strike team, and drop down to 1x5 vespids, you can fit in a riptide

[mild glen]

I do like Riptides...

[past sphinx]

in the name of tradition you shouldnt have less than 3

[mild glen]

Triple Ghostkeel, though..

[rocky shale]

ghostkeels arent all that killy

Theyre just wierd to get a shot on

[thin ibex]

Good for actions, good for nuisance fire, and in some cases decent at armor killing, but generally not super deadly

[mild glen]

Too late. I now have a list that's Triptide Tripkeel. It infiltrates three ghostkeels onto the center objective in deployment and refuses to move while Riptides shoot things.

(I do not, in fact, have this list)

[broken dew]

Lol

[mental birch]

Tau boxset confirmed lets go

(I know coping)

[broken dew]

It's one quote per page from named characters

[quaint compass]

Damn

I almost got excited there

[broken dew]

Lmao

Very funny little book regardless

[mental birch]

Isnt the tau empire semi bordering ultramsr

[floral herald]

It’s not bordering them but it is relatively close

[vital barn]

HH3e FAQ out

generally nice, didn't fix one unit I think is very jank but has everything else we could have reasonably hoped for

Scoria can now be taken without blocking your Mechanicum Archmagos slot so it's scorpion time

[untold swallow]

Man the 30k outrider bikes look so much cooler than the modern 40k bikes

[broken dew]

mfw 30k just has straight up cooler stuff than 40k

cue Cataphractii Terminators

my beloved

[untold swallow]

40k vs HH

I feel like the 30k ones convey the speed and power of a space marine bike better

[broken dew]

gawdamn those 30k bikes are slick as hell

[untold swallow]

They look like 2012 Dredd vs 2000AD Dredd bikes

[vital barn]

30K bikes are a little hit and miss because they also have the noble dickbikes

but the wheeled ones do look nice

[untold swallow]

I gotta admit I also prefer HH storm bolters and lightning claws

[broken dew]

the horus heresy lightning claws are quite simply better

not hate for the 40k wolverine claws

but the HH claw hands are just superior

[untold swallow]

the wolverine claws can look nice

[vital barn]

personally I'm fond of the HH heavy weapons the most

[untold swallow]

I even actually like the newer ones that are mounted on tacticus armor for primaris

[vital barn]

you've got the underslung heavy bolter and the cool wedge missile launcher

[broken dew]

the little underslung chainsword is funny

bro bought that thing at fucking home depot lmao

[untold swallow]

chainfist moment

You gotta admit this is fresh tho

[broken dew]

that does kinda fuck yeah

[untold swallow]

It's a liiiittle weird to me on a black templar cuz I associate them the most with

S w o r d s

[broken dew]

yeah uh

make it a Raven Guard

please and thank you

[vital barn]

it's a shame the 30k assault bots have kind of funky claws

I would prefer the wolverine setup

they're monsters, though, they will eat 20-man marine squads for breakfast

[untold swallow]

oh those funky claws are cool

[vital barn]

my favourite Mech melee weapons are the spinning disc saws of doom

feat: gauntlet flamers

[untold swallow]

someone I watch who's making an Iron Warriors army turned those into the melee weapons for his chaos spawn

[broken dew]

the depiction of the Emperors lightning claw in that Horus Vs. Big E art by Adrian Smith always was one i thought was kinda funky

almost more like hooks than claws

[untold swallow]

I think it was meant to be evocative of a raptor claw

[vital barn]

oh the 30k Raven Guard are rocking those

[untold swallow]

given how associated he is with Eagles™

[broken dew]

true

[vital barn]

legion-unique Raven's Talons, very mean assault units

like normal claws but +1 initiative on the charge, so you can rip anything with a 3+ save apart before it can touch you

[broken dew]

nice

[vital barn]

unfortunately the Custodes lightning claws are boring

which is a shame because they are auramite, so they should look like the ones Emps has

lightning claw + one-handed melee weapon remains the iconic 40k loadout, more characters should be incentivised to use it

[broken dew]

what do they look like

[vital barn]

just about the only thing I dislike about 3e melee is that claw + sword or claw + hammer no longer grants +1A over just hammer

[broken dew]

yeah that is boring

[untold swallow]

my character in this Oath of Moment pbp would be shooting for it if the Knight's Arms DA item wasn't also on the menu

[vital barn]

they are saved by being on the Aquilon Terminator kit which look great

way better than the Allarus

[untold swallow]

Oh she also wouldn't be able to attack with both at once since they're both primary melee

[broken dew]

simply gonna have to chain attack swap

[untold swallow]

unless she was also a terminator which

laughs in assault marine

'No.'

[broken dew]

i would simply make John Defiant a Termie

i can wear power armor that isn't Terminator armor? blasphemy

[untold swallow]

I'm shooting for making my character into her chapter's version of a Reiver Lt., a Longmane

phobos armor, power weapon

[vital barn]

building my W&G techpriest has basically been a game of "what is the mathematically optimal way for me to have sick drip here"

[untold swallow]

Her battle company's ICBM gambit

[vital barn]

probably going to get a chordclaw at some point just for the awesome claw-hand vibes

[broken dew]

actually i guess since it's John Defiant the genericus tacticus i guess it wouldn't be termie armor

[vital barn]

especially since this guy is, for all intents and purposes, an Admech vampire

[untold swallow]

Oh yeah he do be electrovamping people

[vital barn]

heartless (literally), cold to the touch, can be very charming but only because he can simulate what a real human would say in the circumstances, has secret double life

drains people to death despite them having minor physical injuries at most

[broken dew]

actually maybe not even a genericus tacticus cause i don't really want to spring for primaris stuff

[vital barn]

may as well add claws

[broken dew]

might as well

i should make a less important named character and give them lightning claws for the style

[untold swallow]

It is honestly very funny that we have the classic vampire werewolf dichotomy in the group then

[vital barn]

unfortunately his incredible vampire charm only works for like five minutes and then he goes back to being kind of a dick

[untold swallow]

tech vs weird mutations along those same lines as well

[vital barn]

throw him in with Emil Caravetta as "Misc can only make charming and handsome characters if they're plastic-souled dead-eyed lunatics in at least one way"

all my other humans are either old, dead or Mauri Sancerre

[untold swallow]

God

Sancerre

What a character

literally

[vital barn]

one of the least useful characters I've ever made but very fun to play

[thin ibex]

mild necro, but regarding hte 40k outrider bikes? I feel like the 40k one communicates brutality more than the 30k ones, the 30k ones feel faster, more interested in being a bike. The 40k one feels more like its interesting in running over or ramming something. Both also seem like they are strictly flat ground/road bikes. Which is a gripe i have of the mounted bikers or 40k

like 2 inch clearance from the ground seems not great for navigating even mildly rough terrain

[pastel rampart]

https://imgur.com/4AIxM3A

[broken dew]

yeah the no ground clearance at all is

maybe not superb

[thin ibex]

the atv has the same issue, which is funny because its an atv

[tired cairn]

Space marine bikes don't need ground clearance just like their planes don't need aerodynamics. It's cowardly to not smash through even the smallest is rocks

[untold swallow]

I mean I guess the 40k bikes communicate brutality more, but it's at the expense of communicating any sense of being capable of moving at speed.

I can believe the 30k ones can move faster than like 40 mph, when I imagine the 40k ones doing that I have to stop myself from laughing xD

[thin ibex]

I kind of disagree as far as visual language, each one has 4 exhausts, which is a visual indicator of power, and power can equate to speed, just not aerodynamics

power moving mass means they likely do great in straight lines and shallow curves

The extremely fat tires is a compromise for stability and terrain that is cheapened by the extremely low clearance

[untold swallow]

Sure they have four exhausts, but from a visual design perspective the first thing someone is gonna see is that they're vaguely brick shaped

[thin ibex]

Sure, but thats in line with effectively every piece of hardware the space marines use

we're meant to buy that the thunderhawk dogfights for example

[vital barn]

the thunderhawk is a dropship, in 30k they're dogfighting with these babies

[thin ibex]

elegance isnt in the sm visual language

[untold swallow]

Im sorry the Thunderhawk what

[vital barn]

Voss lightning

still a bit blocky but it's obviously an interceptor

[past sphinx]

the real problem outriders has is no sidecar

[thin ibex]

i can concede that

[vital barn]

the Sicaran tank is also quite sleek by 40k space marine standards

it's still a big slab of metal but the Legions have about 20% more beauty and grace

[past sphinx]

i has a round thing

[past sphinx]

before they forgot how to make orbs

[thin ibex]

tbf i think 30k takes liberties (not bad ones) with established sm visual language

[vital barn]

it has a somewhat different one, yes, partly because there's way more variety in what you can field

40k non-legends lists are tiny now

especially if you exclude the infinite list of space marine characters

[thin ibex]

generally speaking, in broad strokes, SM visual design is always more suggestive of being a blunt, powerful instrument rather than one of speed or precision; leading to a lot of heavy, blocky, shapes

their jets fly in rebellion against physics, their vehicles smash through obstructions

[past sphinx]

furious bricks

[pale narwhal]

The 30k rhinos and preds are also much sleeker than their 40k counterparts (and I’m probably going to use them for my 40k carcharodons bc. They’re so nice and it fits)

[past sphinx]

landraiders being peak of course

[untold swallow]

I will admit my reaction to this Talus

Is to agree

[vital barn]

to be fair 40k now also has the Primaris, who occasionally randomly decide that they starship troopers now

[broken dew]

Arkhan Land may disagree

[untold swallow]

I however maintain that that sucks

XD

[vital barn]

looking at you, Redemptor Dread

[thin ibex]

a lot of that artistic bent is to communicate a brutal, blunt, and aggressive air to space marine stuff

[broken dew]

what does the Redemptor dread do that's special

[pale narwhal]

The new dreads have grown on me tbh

[thin ibex]

its tougher than the other dreads

the redemptor is the generalist that can take more punishment thanks to the damage reduction

the brutalis is melee focused (though puts out a surprisingly respectable amount of firepower sometimes), and the... i forget what its called, but its ranged focused on killing or hurting undamaged targets

[broken dew]

that one kills pilots a bit like the Leviathan yeah?

[thin ibex]

yeah

[broken dew]

great success

[thin ibex]

the redemptor pattern is much bigger and has more articulated elbows and knees, and burns out its pilot

faster

[sour sequoia]

Contemptor is anti-infantry and very tough

[thin ibex]

oh was more talking the new pattern

the contemptor is the old boi, pre-existing the... casteferrum i think its called

[untold swallow]

Ballistus

[broken dew]

Contemptor is old yea

my fav type

[thin ibex]

The pre-fridge dread was the contemptor, then came the fridge which was the most stable, then they went back to being unstable with the redemptors

[sour sequoia]

Oh good news cuz there’s a dumb ugly as sin 40k
Contemptor

[past sphinx]

you know i think id like new dreads more if every single kit ive seen built didnt have them doing the fent lean

[thin ibex]

lol

i do actually quite like the new dreads personally, in terms of visuals

[past sphinx]

idk if its the hips or what but their always looking skyward when their built

[broken dew]

ahh ok so it seems the Leviathan drives you insane while the Redemptor just

kills you

husk time even though you're already a husk

[thin ibex]

yeah, it just kills ya faster

its also vaguely more powerful, though i imagine thats on account of being like way bigger

than the casteferrum

[broken dew]

?

[untold swallow]

Doing the fuckin what lean?

[thin ibex]

btw i didn't reply to this, but totally valid

[vital barn]

I really do not like the Redemptor and its variants

least drippy dread

[broken dew]

but yeah Contemptor is my favourite Dread

[vital barn]

it's just very strangely shaped and doesn't really have that big-slab-of-zombie-metal connotations

[pale narwhal]

They’ve grown on me but yeah. I vastly prefer the 30k dreads

[thin ibex]

the main thing i like about it is the weapon mounts are articulated in such a way that it looks like they are capable of aiming them

[broken dew]

i kinda like the Redemptor but it's not as good as stuff like the Contemptor, Deredeo or indeed the Castraferrum

[thin ibex]

apparently the SW were not fans of the contemptor cause it had a bad machine spirit or something

[vital barn]

I am a box enjoyer

square dread best dread

honorable mention Contemptor and Leviathan

[broken dew]

i think it drove their interred batshit insane

[thin ibex]

i used to be a big fan of the leviathan, cause it was big, looked cool, and could take 8 autocannons

[broken dew]

The Space Wolves' Contemptor Dreadnoughts developed a reputation within the Legion for engaging in excess on the battlefield and unwarranted savagery that stained the character of those interred within the Dreadnought's armoured carapace. This infamy became a form of self-fulfilling prophecy in some cases as the superstitious Iron Priests of the Chapter began to inter only elite fallen Astartes who already possessed sagas relating deeds darker than most of their peers in pursuit of the foe.

seems to just be the Space Wolves being weird and superstitious about it

kind of a dick move ngl

Mortifactors type shit

leave em to die lol

[jaunty dawn]

Mark iv box dread has weird proportions but it waddled so leviathan could walk

[vital barn]

I really like the box dread's funky proportions, it feels suitably huge and lumbering

[jaunty dawn]

Casket dread is cool though

[vital barn]

the Leviathan is cool but I still prefer the waddlecubes

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah but the mark iv is leviathan features pasted on the box dread's body

Which one can like tbf

[broken dew]

i kinda fw the Deredeo as well

weapons platform time

[pine matrix]

The only thing I can imagine being worse than being stuck inside a giant awkward box is being stuck in one with no arms

[broken dew]

yeah

maybe not the most fun thing ever

[jaunty dawn]

Deredeo is funny

[untold swallow]

My partner who's into 40k only likes the waddlecubes

Mostly because he played Dawn of War and believes in The Power of Silly

[thin ibex]

i really do wish the ballistus dread had some kind of weapon option

[jaunty dawn]

It should get an autocannon really

To replace lascannon option

[thin ibex]

i was thinking lascannon+missiles or 4 autos

or is the auto on the firestrike a twin or trio?

[jaunty dawn]

Possibly yeah

Firestrike is 2

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/vy6gfo/i_put_legs_on_a_firestrike_servo_turret/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

This is pretty cool

[thin ibex]

joke idea, but ballistus with 12 ironhail stubbers

[jaunty dawn]

Horrifying

The ironclad could take a hurrican bolter though

Funny how 50% of its loadout was just what if a land raider was a dread

[thin ibex]

i want a "hurricane fragstorm launcher" 6d6 shots per, blast

explosion based land raider

thunderfire front mount, hurrican fragstorm, assault ramp grenades, top mounted whirlwind launcher

for you more mechanically/competetively minded, what would the firestrike need to offer to be a viable off-pick?

[pale narwhal]

Thunderfire land raider exists iirc

[thin ibex]

yeah i was remembering, it, there was also one with a whirlwind vengeance launcher on top too

[jaunty dawn]

Apparently harlequins were once as kleptomaniacal as orks

[thin ibex]

lol

[broken dew]

lmao

[jaunty dawn]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/4/43/Land_Raider_Harlequin_1st_Edition2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130902193427

[pale narwhal]

The turrets? Cheaper cost or more firepower. Unfortunately movement is king currently so they’re pretty rough to use but more firepower or cheaper cost might help

[vital barn]

land raider achilles, yeah

[thin ibex]

maybe deadlier overwatch or free overwatch against deepstrike?

[vital barn]

quad multimelta/volkite, quad-gun, even more armour than most Land Raiders, what's a transport capacity

I think it carries like six nakedmarines, three terminators

[jaunty dawn]

No assault ramp though

Theres an iron hands book that mentions the anvilarium land raider which is open topped and ferries a dreadnought

[vital barn]

you can charge out of non-Assault vehicles in 3e, you just go less far because it denies setup move/volley fire/charge benefits like WE trait

so three iron hands elite termies in one of those is actually decent

since they benefit from basically none of those anyway due to being slightly smaller walking fridges

pocket morlocks

[jaunty dawn]

Which I guess makes sense when you have dreadnoughts leading you

[vital barn]

relatively few legion elite terminator squads even go down to 3 models, it's only the generic command squads and the Morlocks from what I recall

but they're good lads

[jaunty dawn]

Ares is a vindicator land raider which is pretty cool

[vital barn]

their unique rule is incredibly useless but fun

[thin ibex]

lets get sponson demolisher cannons

[hollow laurel]

FWIW, I think I prefer the left ones a bit just for the gun placement, but I would love a bash that combined the upper guns with the 30k body.

Rhi the Kobold Bun (She/Her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) 40k vs HH 📎

[thin ibex]

how would they work? I have no idea

[vital barn]

embrace dracosan

[thin ibex]

honestly wait a minute, what am i saying

[vital barn]

it is a transport, but it basically has a demolisher attached as a kind of COD noob tube

just lob that thing at the nearest target and hope

[jaunty dawn]

The primaris outriders are like twice as big as spathas haha

I like the dracosans a lot

[vital barn]

carries 20 plucky guardsmen with power axes and is an Assault Vehicle, really good unit

[thin ibex]

Land raider with 12 ironhail stubbers, a twin onslaught gatling canon, a sponson ironhail, a hunter killer, and uhhhh. fragstorms instead of assault launchers

[jaunty dawn]

Can hang out with the big heavy bolter spam malcador too

[vital barn]

can I appease you with one really really really really big bolter

[jaunty dawn]

Land raider helios is the missile launcher one, but it uses the hull casemate for the sensor array for guiding the missiles

[thin ibex]

i do like really huge bolter

[broken dew]

fabulous

[thin ibex]

are those lightning guns on the front?

[vital barn]

AV14 front, check
big transport, check
double heavy heavy bolter, check

volkites

[broken dew]

i have reminded myself that Ordinatus exist, what peak

[vital barn]

sponson volkites, primary gun is twin mauler cannon

which is literally the Heavy Heavy Bolter, it started out as 5 shots S6 AP3

[jaunty dawn]

:3

[thin ibex]

so that specific ordinatus, since they're all different, is that just a big laser or a big missile?

[jaunty dawn]

Not in heresy though :(

[vital barn]

that one is neither, that one is big drill

[broken dew]

drill

ENORMOUS drill

[jaunty dawn]

The tracks just get it close I think

Then deploy it for drilling

[vital barn]

it puts down a big fuckoff blast template at extremely long range, messes up everything inside it and then the huge number of troops inside the ordinatus can disembark from the blast marker as if it was a door on the vehicle

[jaunty dawn]

Its a massive transport

[broken dew]

i love Ordinatus

lets just put the biggest gun fucking imaginable on tracks

[thin ibex]

oh thats fun and very silly

ordinatus clown car

[vital barn]

mechanically it is basically a nydus worm

[broken dew]

fuck logic

tracks

[vital barn]

sadly not great ruleswise but has insane drip

[jaunty dawn]

I like the prometheus land raider too which has two quad mount heavy bolter sponsons

[vital barn]

honestly, if you are playing a big enough game to run the Aktaeus it isn't bad

but it is 900pts of transport

[jaunty dawn]

Armoured proteus explorator is really nice

[vital barn]

it can also embark battle-automata

[hollow laurel]

Malcador Defender!

Pennywen ↩️

[(click to see attachment)](#1161696278640594954 message)

[vital barn]

the way the Aktaeus works is also quite charming

you put the blast down within 36" and then either pop up and instantly gib everything under the template or go "nope, still drilling" and then next turn you can put the blast down within 36" of the previous blast

so it does the tunneling-videogame-unit wormsign thing

[broken dew]

neat

[thin ibex]

i want the joke version of the repulsor executioner, with more guns on it than it could possibly carry

[hollow laurel]

Malcador Defender is my favourite Malcador because it doesn't have the weird semi-turret thing.

[vital barn]

if the Aktaeus was cheaper I would absolutely run one honestly

it's kind of asking to be 500-600pts rather than 900

[thin ibex]

ork vibes

[vital barn]

since it's a one-use deploy army onto target

[thin ibex]

Actually, the meme repulsor executioner could just straight up be an ork vehicle

[vital barn]

that is too many guns even for orks, I think

at that point it just totally loses visual coherence

it's got the right idea, at least

[dense idol]

^ sentences spoken by zoggin grots wot need sum senz krumped inna'em

[past sphinx]

ikarus pattern makes some actually good kits to make the repulser less of a mess

[hollow laurel]

Oh?

[vital barn]

reading Scars

steadily warming to the White Scars

still not painting white, though

[broken dew]

some day i feel i should paint myself at least one Lamenter

that day will likely not be a fun one

[charred bridge]

There's one legion thats half red and white and it's probably the best white scars get

[broken dew]

also i've decided that replacing the tan color from the pre-heresy deathguard with a sort of light olive green for the Dusk Defiant color scheme was definitely the correct move, it looks much nicer

[finite compass]

This is, no lie, one of my all-time favorite 40k tank designs

then again I also think the 40k aesthetic really peaked in 3rd and 4th and has been going downhill ever since, so I probably don't have the best opinions

[broken dew]

nah that's based

pick a hill and die on it

if 3rd and 4th edition is your hill you gotta go for it

[pastel rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/dozens-of-us-there-are-dozens-of-us-dozens-arrested-development-arrested-development-dozens-gif-18162954729757007693

[broken dew]

y'all gonna have to show me the 3rd/3th ed aesthetics sometime

i'm gonna need to go find all the old codexes to read at some point too

[floral herald]

I think a lot of the defining artstyle for that era is Karl Kopinski’s stuff

https://artwork.40k.gallery/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Wulfen-1-768x959.jpg.webp

[broken dew]

are those Wolfen

[pastel rampart]

Yup

Art shown in the Eye of Terror book.

[broken dew]

fucking hell

[finite compass]

For me it's Karl Kopinski, Wayne England, and John Blanche

[broken dew]

look at that demon dude

[pastel rampart]

3e is when 40k started to visually lean into the grimdark aesthetic, and their models started evolving to evoke that.

[broken dew]

daaamn

[finite compass]

NGL the Wayne England art is what really clicked the setting in my head for me

[broken dew]

lmao

look at that guys face

[broken dew]

bro has that constipated expression

[floral herald]

Those are great shouts yeah

[broken dew]

ooh is that a penitent engine

[pastel rampart]

https://40k.gallery/artist/wayne-england/ His art was really evocative.

[floral herald]

It is yeah

[pastel rampart]

https://artwork.40k.gallery/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Great-Unclean-One-1.jpg

[broken dew]

ayyyy

the old skulls

love that skull design

so angular and shit

[pastel rampart]

Same, it rules

[finite compass]

I can't find a good pic of just the art

But I love the background details in this

Also back when the boxes had art instead of a photo of the models

Like I can see why they changed it

But come on

[floral herald]

https://40k.gallery/the-catachan-jungle-fighters/

[finite compass]

Also this one

It's like

Fucked up grimdark medieval weirdness, but the poses and everything are pure Renaissance art

[floral herald]

That one rulessss

[fossil violet]

Paul Bonner did some good 40K stuff but I’m unsure which edition(s)

[pastel rampart]

2e, possibly RT-era.

https://artwork.40k.gallery/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Ork-Battle-Wagon.jpg

Pre-3e at least, that's how orks looked.

[broken dew]

this is what they wrote the Guardsmans uplifting primer about lmao

[pastel rampart]

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/dd/d4/92/ddd492ac742cd4504832763d5510aca3.jpg

They had a lot of character to them. Very droopy and goofy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OrigGamesWorkshopArt/comments/ru9pzr/ork_freebooterz_by_paul_bonner_1991/ okay yeah 1991, that predates 2e even.

[broken dew]

neat

[pastel rampart]

There's a real charm and punk energy to early 40k art. It gets kinda goofy in 2e with everything being VERY bright primary colors but that's a delight in its own way.

[broken dew]

it's very fun

[pale narwhal]

Ian Miller also did a bunch of (especially WHF chaos) stuff

I have a copy of Ratspike (his and Blanche's artbook) and it's chock-full of that early warhammer aesthetic

[west zealot]

I like that the spike on his armor is smiling and has what appears to be a funcitoning eye

[past sphinx]

i hate to sound like "ah man it was better in the good old days" but i really think the art is just worse now