#Warhammer and Such

1 messages · Page 167 of 1

broken dew
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They aren't psykers so i don't have to do shit if i don't want to

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"Why are your psykers not appropriately garbed"
"What psykers?"
"The psykers of your librarius"
"I don't have any psykers in my librarius"
"you don't have any WHAT in your librarius!?"

vital barn
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the good thing about 30k librarians is that they're not blue

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unless they're ultras, anyway

floral herald
floral herald
untold swallow
vital barn
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the world eaters libbies all exploded and the 1kSons are 1kSons but every other legion is pretty eclectic about what they do with psykers during wartime

broken dew
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"The world eater libbies all exploded"

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Lmao

charred bridge
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Being a sanctioned Psyker requires a a great degree of training and control.
WE: Yeet the nails in their brain
blows up everyone in the area immediately

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Tbf For Angron his sons dying is a positive to him before Kharn

vital barn
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yeah, they didn't have a good war

image.png
broken dew
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It started off with "blinding migraines" and "debilitating facial bleeds"?

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Jfc

untold swallow
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Yeah this kind of shit is why I have limited sympathy for Big Angry

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"Waaaah my Butcher's Nails render me an uncaring monster only sated by bloodlust, I hate you dad for not being able to stop it (among other, valid reasons."

broken dew
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"The silent brothers died alone- never forgotten but always ignored. Their gene-seed rotted with their bodies, unharvested in case their genetic legacy resulted in the same curse infecting a second generation." D:

untold swallow
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"Let me do the same thing to my sons."

broken dew
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Jesus fucking christ that is brutal

untold swallow
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Angron was a wild animal needing to be put down long before even the end of the Great Crusade

broken dew
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Seems like it

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Putting him in the "need of the emperors mercy" camp with Kurze

untold swallow
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Kurze honestly has a leg up over Angron

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He was just an asshole to his sons, he didn't endeavor to mutilate them in the same way he was

broken dew
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Yeah

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Kurze was a skin wearing freakazoid from the getgo tho

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Keeping him and Angron around was never gonna end well

untold swallow
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Oh god no

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To be fair that is true of

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Disturbingly many of the Primarchs

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I do think it's true of my favorite Primarch for example

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The Lion

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Bro is, even among his brothers, an unabashed and inventive war criminal

vital barn
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Angron is a fun tragic character for the duration of the heresy and then Sangy killing him essentially ends his arc

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40k Angron is just a big red rage monster, there's no person in there

broken dew
untold swallow
vital barn
untold swallow
vital barn
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his boys did not actually protect Angron at all so if Angron hadn't stopped with his axe at Russ' throat then the Wolves would have gunned him down, which he was totally willing to accept because he's Angron

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but still a total failure for Russ there

untold swallow
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I love to see the Wolves lose

vital barn
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showed up to teach Angron a lesson he was biochemically incapable of learning, got baited into a fight, got rinsed

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Lorgar later goes "no, Russ owned you with facts and logic" to Angron and Angron just goes "look, do you think I care if I die?"

broken dew
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Why didn't they shoot, were they expecting Russ to do it solo and take the blame or what?

vital barn
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Angron floored Russ, didn't kill him and let him crawl back to his line of guys, at which point Russ just left because he didn't have the authority to kill Angron

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presumably they would have shot if Russ had lost his head

upper canopy
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God Russ sucks

broken dew
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Kind of a bum move from the Vlka Fenryka to show up with their dad to kill their uncle, get washed, watch dad get washed, do nothing about it and leave in disgrace

untold swallow
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God Angron is just that one Onion meme

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Worst person you know etc etc

broken dew
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Ngl

upper canopy
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Angron only made good points

vital barn
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ah, someone put the whole bit on reddit because of course they have

untold swallow
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I mean true

vital barn
untold swallow
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He was also just

upper canopy
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Correctly pointing out that Russ is a slave

vital barn
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iif you want the actual text

untold swallow
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A pathetic little prick at his core

broken dew
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Absolutely weakass behaviour, had to be backed up by fucking LORGAR

vital barn
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Lorgar has hands

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he really gets his shit together over the course of the heresy and becomes a proper grownup brackets evil

untold swallow
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Yes but he's also Catholic Lex Luthor

vital barn
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still talks shit all the time, though

untold swallow
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You can only take him so seriously

vital barn
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he's great, though

broken dew
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"He beat you with facts and logic" lil bro Russ showed up to kill Angron, got turned into a victim alongside his whole legion and had to crawl away

vital barn
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smug dipshit primarch who gets stuff done

untold swallow
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The Khan remains best primarch

vital barn
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Lorgar is easily my favourite because his arc is built around him starting out as an immature little shit and growing out of that through the power of incredible evil and violence

untold swallow
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Not my favorite, but the best as a person

broken dew
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That's some serious loser behaviour, facts and logic aren't gonna cover up the fact you got absolutely shit on while trying to do something stupid

vital barn
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unlike the others who are usually meant to be geniuses but still act about as childish

broken dew
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Peter Turbo 😂

untold swallow
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Turbo is my favorite traitor

vital barn
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Perty is also great, again because him being a little shit is the intended read

broken dew
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Sanguinius is my fave by virtue of being the Lamenters dad

untold swallow
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Samguinius is too perfect

vital barn
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Sanguinius is best boy in-universe but out of universe he's just kind of there

broken dew
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I like that the Lamenters inherited his crippling depression via psychic resonance

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Put the whole chapter on suicide watch

vital barn
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he's what he is for the entire thing and everyone knows how it ends already, so his whole deal of Too Good Too Pure For This World is not really the source of a lot of juice

untold swallow
thin ibex
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i think my favorite traitor primarch is prolly curze, followed by I think turbo cause i like the iron warriors. But Curze, and by association, the night lords didn't really change at all before and after turning, which is hilarious; and they're as close to uncomplicated bad guys as you can get

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they're irredeemable

vital barn
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Curze bores me but the rest of the night lords are universally good fun

untold swallow
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And they know it but dont agonize over it like certain other Legions who 'just wanted to be like dad' pathetic crying in the distance

vital barn
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although I actually prefer their 40k books

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First Claw are a wonderful bunch of sarcastic bastards

untold swallow
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this post made by Fuck World-Eaters gang

broken dew
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They literally just got psychic depression

IMG_1687.png
vital barn
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the world eaters benefit from a long string of A tier writing

untold swallow
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They're written great they're just

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Frank from Shameless' one kid who still liked him up to a point

broken dew
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As if things weren't bad enough for the Lamenters they also have depression genetically built in

vital barn
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I've posted Kharn vs Siggy here before, but it's still one of the best bits of the Siege by my rating

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because Kharn is totally out of his mind on Khorne juice by this point and obviously a lunatic, but he still manages to make about 80% of a good point

broken dew
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Bro ate the whole box of Khorne Flakes

brittle salmon
pastel rampart
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/11AKcOnyALGsLKWGNhdfwOxURRirZbRxCcIQeKcASqyk/edit?usp=sharing Work on one of my papers? ❌ Write some shit about my space boys? ✅

Google Docs
The Angels Medicae

The Angels Medicae History: The Angels Medicae are a Blood Angels successor chapter of unknown founding, though records of their accomplishments indicate that they may be part of the 24th founding. They are noted as having an unusual amount of sanguinary priests in their ranks, often embedding t...

untold swallow
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Im so sorry slim all I can hear is a bunch of Rejects shouting 'I need Medicae!!!'

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Im sure they're very cool tho so lemme read them

pastel rampart
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Oh they're all screaming for the medic because getting shot hurts :(

broken dew
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I should put my crazy notes page for the Dusk Defiant into a document

untold swallow
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But yeah actually these are super cool Slim good job

pastel rampart
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I'll work out some more shit later but this is the general fluff.

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They're now looking at the tyranids they're fighting on an ice planet as a perfectly good excuse to experiment with some Bug Juice™

broken dew
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I still need to write up a chapter history for the Dusk Defiant

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The basic jist is that they are survived the heresy unscathed somehow and reappeared sometime around M.34-M.35 and pretended to be a probably Salamanders successor

untold swallow
broken dew
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Their most ancient dreads, mainly Siegfrid and Arystichor, remember the heresy

untold swallow
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God damn

broken dew
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But also aren't as old as say, Bjorn, prolly for warp shenanigans reasons

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One of the reasons their oral teaching tradition is so strong is cause they have first hand accounts of the heresy

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Also why they are so fucked up with fear about it

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They had folks who went from fighting alongside their battle brothers to seeing them as horrid pestilent abominations

vital barn
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I am still wondering how I want to do the 40k version of my AL

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they still have Lernaeans and Headhunters, since they show up in Harrowmaster

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maybe there's an old Phraetus operative still around, a Saturnine daemon prince with one human head and one daemonic one

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although that would require me to magnetise the base since the 30k Sats are on 50mm and the Prince is on 60

untold swallow
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I think if the AL was more explicitly linked to Tzeentch I would like them more

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They seem built for it honestly

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But they're Undivided

vital barn
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or to be more precise they're the Who Even Knows variant of undivided

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which I like

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lets you play the fifty different agendas out to their logical concluson

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hmm, old Prince is the right size, new one is too lorge

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I think it's probably fine outside the base size thing, body is the same size and there's a wingless prince option

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I'll give him a tactical rock

paper bluff
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Angron made great points often

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If I were to custom make a chapter. I think it would iron warrior loyalists that have a melancholic kindness to them

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"We will be the steel that protects" sort. Not like the salamanders. More like the exorcists but where it is grim and to be one of their number is to give up yourself

charred bridge
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To think Angron's primarch power was like being a proper psychic Empath able to take away the pain and suffering of gladitorial opponent that was being melted in acid. Imagine how'd he turn out if he never got butcher nailed

paper bluff
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He would fight the tyrant no matter who they would be and in there lays the problem with healing Angron

vital barn
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Angron also gets many hard as fuck lines, which makes it more of a shame that he dissolved into a mindless red rage monster who can't talk trash properly

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‘I am loyal, the same as you. I am told to bathe my Legion in the blood of innocents and sinners alike, and I do it, because it is all that’s left for me in this life. I do these things, and I enjoy them, not because we are moral, or right – or loving souls seeking to enlighten a dark universe – but because all I feel are the Butcher’s Nails hammered into my brain. I serve because of this “mutilation”. Without it? Well, perhaps I might be a more moral man, like you claim to be. A virtuous man, eh? Perhaps I might ascend the steps of our father’s palace and take the slaving bastard’s head.’

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primarchs are best when they have good trash talk, it's why I like Lorgar

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always giving good speeches

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Perty has his moments, too

charred bridge
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Angron's story is tragic and that he's always been used by others, the nobles, emps, kharn, and even becoming a daemon primarch was so Lorgar could buy time to avoid being killed.

brittle salmon
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Perty beating the fuck out of Fulgrim when he realizes there's nothing left of the old primarch in his "ally" is peak

vital barn
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Lorgar does that too, actually

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Fulgrim has a rough Heresy

vital barn
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Angron didn't want to be saved, Lorgar was still riding clean over his brother's wishes and ended up selling him into a slightly different servitude, like everyone else who'd ever known him, but it wasn't self-preservation

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Lorgar valued ascending Angron over killing G-Man, if he hadn't paralysed Angron as part of the transformation then Angron might well have just ended him there, or at least Lorgar could have picked up his whacky stick again and made it a short 2v1

desert jay
pastel rampart
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Like their parent chapter, the Angels Medicae have an appreciation for the finer arts and many partake in such hobbies. The chapter emphasizes learning above all else and each marine knows how to read and write in both High and Low Gothic; this habit of learning has caused them to amass a large collection of tomes and dataslates, some dating back as far back as the Great Crusade. During their downtime between missions the typical battle-brother will spend their time reading or writing for their own enjoyment and edification. Quite a few have taken up writing their own plays and performing them during the yearly chapter festival, and it is considered an honor to be part of these plays; many take their dedication to their role seriously and take great effort to memorize their lines and act “in character” leading up to the performance.

These performances are usually not for outsiders, but a rare few have been allowed to watch these plays; those that have seen these have reported them as being “unbelievable” and “beyond description,” which the chapter believes to be high praise in spite of these outsiders turning down requests for return visits.

untold swallow
untold swallow
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Depressed theatre/premed double majors

pastel rampart
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They were taught how to write badly, as a joke.

charred bridge
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It's the bell curve meme but it's the world eaters on the left saying "subtext is for cowards, say the quiet part out loud"

untold swallow
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Also idk if it's been covered yet but Gods I hope the rumors regarding the space marines heads box is true

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It'd be so fucking funny

desert jay
pastel rampart
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As soon as they dug up the dataslate that stored the Usenet history of alt.sex.fanfic.startrek it was over for them

untold swallow
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Oh I know there's pictured heads and those are the source of the rumors

vital barn
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I'll be honest I'm fairly sure it's just a wonky paint job

charred bridge
upper canopy
charred bridge
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Many pixels were lost compared to last posting of this

broken dew
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jeez

upper canopy
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Listen if I scroll up for more than 15 seconds and its not posted, its fresh meme

still warren
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Sisters the preferred army of Belgian monks confirmed

charred bridge
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Can you even be a SoB fans if youre not doing lines until you see the emperor before a game

sour sequoia
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Asserting dominance

Genestealers is the Real Pervert Army

upper canopy
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Nightlords though

charred bridge
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For being called genestealers they give a lot of genes to others

still warren
broken dew
charred bridge
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As a Necrons and Ork fan, yea I don't know what I want.

sour sequoia
charred bridge
# broken dew "boobs"

Konrad Kurze's true curse was his big naturals that no one ever noticed on the account of the torture murder

sour sequoia
# still warren

So few people play the faction Innes Wilson subscribed to his local subreddit swings the statistics

broken dew
charred bridge
untold swallow
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XD

broken dew
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Rumor?

untold swallow
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It's a rumor yeah

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But it's funny

pastel rampart
broken dew
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Lol

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Love learning about new weapons, apparently there is such a thing as a null rod that you can whack a psyker with to drain their power and fry their brain

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Adding it to the fluff

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Psyker sniffer Immagan can have one for the funnies

pastel rampart
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Yeah back in like 3e an Inquisitor could take it as a piece of wargear.

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Basically prevented them and their unit from being the target of any psychic power, period.

broken dew
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Perfect for the head chaplain of the Psyker haters chapter

stark cypress
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Be so funny if the space marine head sales are huge that the other sets get dedicated head sprues.

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...!?

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Backdoor to Valhallan head sprues can?

broken dew
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Imagining him wielding it as a way to scare off a librarian

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Gonna write a bit about the Captain of the Dusk Defiant's 1st Company tomorrow, decided to name him Gammagan Vhyial

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Might make him a normal marine instead of a termie

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They have to have regular marines somewhere

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Also need to figure out if they get primaris reinforcements or not and how they go about psycho/hypno indoctrinating those potential reinforcements

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Probably summarily treat them as neophytes/scouts

stark cypress
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Oh man

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Imagine a whole chapter just wearing Scout Armor and Astartes sized fatigues.

untold swallow
floral herald
untold swallow
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And chopping off his fucking hand and telling a Primaris to eat it

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It skipped their actual Scouthood cuz like, these were full Marines and at this point veterans of several campaigns, but the cultural stretch helped them fit

sour sequoia
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God dammit

AdMech are actually cool. I cannot afford this. I cannot fit these in my house on top of the GSC.

And Yet.

vital barn
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embrace the beep boops, learn to hate painting all the easily snapped doodads

sour sequoia
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I was just about to say I could hear you typing across the ocean

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The other thing is that the eventual. Very eventual. Parade ready GSC and AdMech armies is a titanic flex

vital barn
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Skitarii being base BS4+ is still an unforgivable sin but it looks like we actually do damage to people now

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all it took was attaching an entire second army's army rule to our One Unique Character

pale narwhal
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I love my admech but it was not a good army for teenage me

so many broken models 😭

humble plover
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Pre-primaris ig

floral herald
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Raptors still have a lot of power armor they’re just kinda pragmatic “anything goes” space marines

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Another KT game tonight

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Played chaos cult into ravagers

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Lost 10-13 but it felt pretty good

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Also my first close match on Tomb World

mild glen
sour sequoia
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Innes Wilson just throws all his fiddly ass GSC in ziploc bags its funny as shit

untold swallow
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I don't even have models and that pains me to hear

pale narwhal
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if you're not a model guy and what matters is that they're tabletop standard painted, it makes sense to just toss em in ziploc to transport

my painter's soul hurts thinking about that though

desert jay
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After a few "incidents" and some retouching here and there that's how you get cool battle scars

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... Which immediately made me think of my friend talking about how he used to take shots at pewter rhino models with a BB gun to put little dents in

sour sequoia
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I would heat up ball bearings and then press em into hulls for melta blast damage

floral herald
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(We were both playing 2 APL melee teams with no AP boosters or exceptions really)

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We just killed the shit out of each other but he scored his Rout better than I could score Dominate

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Dominate was probably a bad choice for chaos cult

deft crest
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Energy cells seems like a mistake

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I mean I'm sure it's not but like

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Wait until the last second kind of games. Not the most fun

floral herald
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I think it could be interesting with teams which are not these ones

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I think it’s nice for maintaining tension into later TPs and making people slow down a little

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But it also felt kinda bad for us since it was basically impossible to score until TP3 and we both fought so much we literally never picked up an energy cell lol

spice flicker
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Correct me if I am wrong but because of the way that the SoB immolator works, even with just SoB squads in an imperial Agents list, am I still restricted to just 3 immolators or can I go up to 6 thanks to the split squads?

charred bridge
thin ibex
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I forget, didn't Robby G make a good account of himself handling both lorgar and Angy at the same time for the most part?

mild glen
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But painting is the fun part!

thin ibex
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Also on which book did that happen again?

spice flicker
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Betrayer

spice flicker
desert jay
spice flicker
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Ah I see

spice flicker
desert jay
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Yep that sure is an Agents list

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Do you need any battleline guys for objectives in crusade?

spice flicker
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I knew i was forgetting something. I was focused on transports so I can actually have some decent firepower and forgot battleline.

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Had the idea i could just use the split apart sisters to helo hold home objective and screen a little. Warglaives lending a hand with dealing with armor.

sour sequoia
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Testing a xenocreed list tomorrow. I feel like I don’t have enough infantry when they all fit on one tray

IMG_0920.jpg
rocky shale
mental birch
rocky shale
mental birch
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the good version however is locked behind the pay and paintng wall

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all horde armies suffer

rocky shale
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In imperialis fleet you can give hammer deathwatch lance to make them punch hard

rocky shale
mental birch
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oh yeah I guess

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post like the first major rework

rocky shale
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Post haloscreed they've been consistently decent

mental birch
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yeah I like Haloscreed

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hahhaa

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MORE BREACHERS lol

broken dew
broken dew
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So when the Primaris show up and are like "hello we're here to join" the Dusk Defiant are high-key obligated to be a little freaked out

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At that point the plan basically becomes "use as much memory editing, psycho indoctrination and hypno indoctrination as necessary to induct them into the chapters lore and tradition without someone trying to hail the Inquisition for Excommunicate Traitoris"

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The other alternative being the emperors peace really, which they really fucking wouldn't want to do

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I would also hope that Cawl or whoever made their Primaris took note of the uh, discriminate lack of psykers

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Cause that problem is a little bit less avoidable than dealing with the chapter culture

untold swallow
untold swallow
desert jay
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And so did the Space Wolves, who also totally don't have any psykers

broken dew
broken dew
broken dew
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Regardless of any reason they just have no psykers and no librarius

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This is not the case for Dusk Defiant, their lack of Psykers is VERY purposeful

desert jay
broken dew
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I think it is attributed to the Cacodominus alot

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That when they killed it, its psychic death scream did something that fucked with their ability to have psykers

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Again whatever the reason is they just have no psykers and their librarius is completely gone

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As far as i can find there are a few possible reasons for why such as the Cacodominus, but the result is the same

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If you ask the Templars they'll say it's the will of the God Emperor

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In earlier editions it was definitely just cause they were turbo racist and executed any aspirants/neophytes with psychic potential

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Dusk Defiant are basically that but for reasons i would at least consider better than turbo racism

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Which is, again, Typhus

untold swallow
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and if one is discovered after the implantation process is complete?

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Well

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chop

untold swallow
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The scale of the reasons given seem pretty similar

broken dew
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from what i found when i was looking it up there seemed to be, at least in older editions, no specific reason given

untold swallow
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Like I'm gonna be real Typhus is not a better reason to reject psyker aspirants

broken dew
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i was not referencing the Cacodominus as a reason to reject psykers

untold swallow
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Both are good I suppose, if you must have a Chapter that possesses no Librarians, but that is an impulse I will never understand

broken dew
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i was referencing the fact that the Black Templars used to be characterized as turbo-racist against any kind of psyker and would just kill them on sight

untold swallow
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reason there are no psyker aspirants whether through geneseed fuckery or active rejection then

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fair

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The whole Black Templars hate psykers thing is poorly thought out, which initially works in its favor as it's portraying a bigotry, something fundamentally irrational

broken dew
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i think being scared shitless of Typhus #2 is a moderately better reason to shun all psykers with exclusive exception to those absolutely necessary than being mega racist

charred bridge
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Did they like retcon that or something, cause like without navigators black templars would barely be able to leave the system

broken dew
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yeah from what i can find they seem to have

untold swallow
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But then they have to actually interact with the setting, where what they've decided to be bigoted against is necessary for them to function

broken dew
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changed how Black Templars are in regards to at least certain psykers

untold swallow
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Oh, they don't hate navigators

broken dew
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like iirc they don't have Navigators or Astropaths

untold swallow
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They view them as 'able to commune with the Emperor'

broken dew
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specifically

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yeah

untold swallow
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Which

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You know, cope

broken dew
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since they "commune with the emperor", Astropaths and Navigators are somehow ok

charred bridge
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I mean Emp's did sanction astropaths and navigators

broken dew
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the Dusk Defiant do not view it like that they just, aren't stupid assholes and know that they definitely need Astropaths and Navigators

untold swallow
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Yes and

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And Librarians are a form of sanctioned psyker

broken dew
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i don't think old Templars cared who the Emperor sanctioned

untold swallow
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A form of psyker that exists beyond astropaths

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<XD

broken dew
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all psykers must die

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Dusk Defiant are not so much "all psykers must die" as they are "if you are a psyker and exist near us, fucking don't"

untold swallow
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Like if the criteria here was 'sanctioned by Big E' Templars wouldn't just be turbo-bigoted towards psykers more than a normal Imperial

broken dew
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yeah

untold swallow
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They are just The Crusader Faction and thus must hate magic

charred bridge
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It would be funny if the absolutely no psyker black templars took like dozens year to get to a place where while the navigator ok ones got places

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Not all psykers are sanctioned

untold swallow
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Virus

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I know, but Librarians are one such variety of sanctioned psyker

broken dew
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the Dusk Defiant do tend to uh, shoot any psykers that end up near them that aren't sanctioned though

untold swallow
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every Imperial in the setting hates unsanctioned psykers

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But the Templars have to go beyond that to be notable in their hate bonerage

charred bridge
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I mean even sanctioned psykers that arent navigators or astartes

broken dew
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they don't fw trying to nab them for black ships or such it's just, kill on sight, they could become a problem at any time so we render them not a problem now

untold swallow
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Okay I genuinely think ur being obtuse now cuz wh

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Where did I say other than this, what is the purpose of this retreading?

charred bridge
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You got a paper that says sanctioned but someone in that hive world doesnt care they'd shoot

untold swallow
#

I am

#

so confused

#

Because

#

No shit???

#

But a Space Marine, especially one in charge of making doctrinal decisions, is more informed than a Hiver????

charred bridge
#

Well no one is shooting a navigator or space marines for being a psyker out of cold blood

untold swallow
#

But the Black Templars are noted, even amongst the general Imperium, for their hatred of the witch, a category that just includes anyone capable of space magic

#

A Hiver doesn't know what a Navigator is

broken dew
#

the old Templars would low-key be the kinda guys to shoot a navigator

charred bridge
#

I mean they'd know space ships pop in and out

broken dew
#

from what i've read they used to be depicted as not even treating Navigators of Astropaths well

#

which is kinda stupid

untold swallow
#

A Hiver has zero reason to ever be informed or aware of what a Navigator is, they probably barely know types of psyker exist at all

charred bridge
#

The change is sensible to dark templars so they can get places

broken dew
#

because the Navis Nobilite wouldn't exactly stand for the Templars just randommly brutalizing Navigators

untold swallow
#

God can you fucking imagine the Navis Nobilite finding out the Templars executed their Navigators

broken dew
#

they would just stop fucking sending Navigators to the Black Templars

untold swallow
#

They'd do more than that

charred bridge
#

Yea black templars would like just have to go super slow

broken dew
#

well yeah but like at minimum the Templars would be turbo fucked for travel

charred bridge
#

God forbid a warp storm happens cause gellar fields are often psykers

broken dew
#

at the very barest minimum their crusades are immediately and irrevocably crippled in their capabilities

untold swallow
broken dew
#

yeah

untold swallow
#

Do you know how often a Navis Nobilite house just

broken dew
#

archeotech for warp travel iirc

untold swallow
#

Has a Navis Imperialis commander, or even command staff just

#

Fucking murdered

#

For having one?

#

it's often

broken dew
#

yeah

untold swallow
#

If the Templars just

broken dew
#

makes sense to me

untold swallow
#

killed the representatives a Nobilite House sent

#

That is going to be met with scorched earth

charred bridge
#

Thats pretty much like anything from DaoT

broken dew
#

sorry we killed your filthy sanctioned witch gets exterminatus'd

untold swallow
#

Virus I get the broader idea that DaoT stuff is taboo, but it is noted that Navis Nobilite houses specifically target those with Void Abacii with assassination so their monopoly isn't threatened

broken dew
#

the Dusk Defiant would probably really like having one

untold swallow
#

I am explaining why, unrelated to them being DaoT objects, having a Void Abacus gets the Nobilite on your ass

#

Void Abacii being DaoT is irrelevant to the point

broken dew
#

but ultimately it would be pointless cause even if they could get rid of Navigators

#

they'd still need like

#

Astropaths

#

and it wouldn't be worth fucking with the Navis Nobilite just to remove one psyker from the ship when you still have to have other psykers on your ship

#

you might as well just keep the Navigator and spare yourself the trouble

brittle salmon
#

I do think we're overblowing the hard power a Navis house has here, Rhi - they're immensely powerful, but a lot of that power comes from the soft power Sword of Damocles they hold over people's heads of "Get blacklisted idiot"

broken dew
#

as far as i know there isn't really a good alternative for Astropaths

#

and you REALLY want to have Astropaths

untold swallow
#

I mean sure, but I think a good amount of that soft power could be applied to 'oh this Chapter killed some of my family. Nuke them.'

brittle salmon
#

Absolutely not

broken dew
#

i think even if they did the Black Templars might not be the guys to go after considering how stupidly many of them there are

brittle salmon
#

A Navis house in open warfare with an Astartes chapter is going to get the Inquisition involved on both of them at comically fast rates

broken dew
#

that would be quite bad

untold swallow
#

Throughout this entire point I have cited them using the mechanisms of soft power to do something, I am not suggesting the Navis Nobilite are using their own forces to do it, I am suggesting they are using their clout to get someone else to do it

#

I am using the term 'nuke them' because it illustrates their desire to lay the enemy that threatens them in such a way low, in an admittedly hyperbolic fashion

brittle salmon
#

Right

untold swallow
#

They probably would, as previously stated, deny Navigators to the Templar fleet, pressure Navis Imperialis captains to avoid the Templars' flotillas and to not provide resupply, threaten planets on valuable shipping lanes to not let the Templars dock there, etc etc

#

The actual mechanism would be isolation and starvation of fuel, war materiel, and just plain old food supplies

#

Applied via threatening those who could provide such, but also rely on Navigators

#

I am admittedly also assuming this is early in the history of the Templars, and of Chapters as an institution as a whole

#

Since the ship's kind of sailed on killing your Navigators since like

#

10k years ago by the time of the modern setting

charred bridge
#

A lot of that assumes inquisition doesnt do anything about it

untold swallow
#

Yes, however I am banking on the Inquisition caring more about not pissing off the ones who facilitate any sort of navigation through the Warp versus 1 group that was stupid enough to kill the ones the former group sent to help them

#

A Chapter is not worth potentially pissing off the Nobilite

charred bridge
#

Itd probably piss off like a single house

untold swallow
#

True, the news might not spread

charred bridge
#

And the other houses likely would help black templars to throw the oddball house under the bus thats making too many moves and too much of a scene

untold swallow
#

I don't know how much they'd be inclined to help a group that killed a delegation of their kind for being their kind, but under the circumstances it's certainly possible

charred bridge
#

They feud a ton

untold swallow
#

I do be not accounting for that as much as I maybe should

charred bridge
#

The feud usually involves messing with other houses and rivals trade routes or movements like undercutting them or something.

#

Cause the most idea outcome for the winner is they basically absorb the losers assets to use

#

The smaller houses very much would sabotage another house to basically put them in a bad spot and pick off the best of the house's assets

#

If like a greater house said screw black templars thats a different story

broken dew
#

Can you pawn off greyshields on other chapters

#

Trying to think of the potential psyker issue from as many angles as possible

pale narwhal
#

could always send them to the deathwatch ASAP as blackshields

broken dew
#

Unfortunately not plausible

#

The Dusk Defiant have mad rituals that require mutual consent to second brothers to the Deathwatch

#

The Greyshields would have no idea about the rituals and they couldn't be forced to do them either by chapter rule

#

That is an exceptionally funny idea though

#

Sending greyshield brothers to the Deathwatch IMMEDIATELY as soon as you get them is a real funny thought

#

Sorry guys you're going to the long vigil

#

Don't come back

#

They would need to do something with any psykers without inducting them into chapter culture

#

And i feel like getting sent to another chapter to serve is preferable to like, death

#

The Dusk Defiant are certainly unwilling to change their stance on shunning psykers but they don't have to be dicks about it either necessarily

#

Plus just putting a bolt round into any psyker greyshields is mad wasteful

pale narwhal
#

they might have a deal with another chapter for their psyker greyshields to get sent there

broken dew
#

That would be prolly the best solution

#

They don't even have a traditional librarius even if they did get over their hate of psykers

#

So no matter what keeping them would be wasteful

#

Prolly just have them send off greyshield psykers to an unnamed chapter with whom they have an agreement

#

Would be mad funny to send a note to Cawl with the gene-seed tithe

#

"If you make any psykers with our gene-seed send them to X chapter instead of ours we don't want them, thanks in advance, Dusk Defiant Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes"

jaunty dawn
#

Navigators arent psykers

#

Like they interact with the warp but they do so in a wholly different way

broken dew
#

For my purposes the distinction is mostly irrelevant

#

But yeah they don't exactly shoot lightning bolts from their hands or anything

#

My chapter hates the Warp not just psykers, so it doesn't particularly matter how you interact with the Warp as much as it does that you are interacting with the warp in the first place

#

You're warp touched? That's a shunning

grim mango
#

I printed one of these ol' bois for a friend of mine!

20251007_115506.jpg
jaunty dawn
#

All humans interact with the warp tho. Other than nulls

#

But fair

broken dew
#

True

#

But it's more like, actively drawing its presence

#

You get free warpinteractions from just having a soul sure, but it's doing anything mire with the warp than that which the Dusk Defiant are almost absolutely opposed against, violently so

jaunty dawn
#

I think I dont really understand why they'd send psykers given to their care away rather than deal with them directly. Like when its to the extent they hate the warp to the point they are significantly diminishing their ability to do their jobs the mercy doesnt really fit I think? All space marines are a horrible military force

#

So I think theres no need to shy away from them being disappeared after the hand off

#

I think something like a closely guarded void abacus makes sense for travel, but without astropaths theyd kinda just have to go where they want and do things without communicating

#

Which isnt out of the question

#

Theyd need to be kinda pariahs to keep it all hidden in the first place

broken dew
#

Phone dying so i'll explain in a moment when i'm home

jaunty dawn
#

Np

#

And you dont gotta if you dont want to too its your dudes n all

broken dew
#

Nah i like talking about them

#

Also they deff do have at least one Void Abacus

#

Their secondary flagship is a small salvaged space hulk

#

Ok home now

#

so to explain

#

some background, the Dusk Defiant are a Loyalist Deathguard successor chapter(though they consider themselves successors of the Dusk Raiders spiritually) that were formed originally by heresy era Deathguard who managed to survive the fall of the legion through unknown means(unknown because i haven't thought about it yet but probably warp shenanigans)

#

Their chapter culture and lore are derived from the actions of Typhus the Traveler, the guy who doomed the Deathguard to Nurgles service

#

In the eyes of the Dusk Defiant, their chapter could fall to chaos by the actions of any given member of their chapter, and thus they have a chapter wide culture of vigilance and purity, leading to them fielding approximately a 10x amount of their chapters equivalent of chaplains and having other weird cultural quirks

#

their beef with the warp is based on the fear that their chapter is inherently ready to fall to chaos at any given moment and that the actions of even a single corrupted marine or some other in service of the chapter could lead to this fall

#

as a result, they have, as a chapter, taken an absolue zero-tolerance stance on pretty much anyone that makes any kind of use of the warp, with the exception of Navigators and Astropaths as it is considered simply too crippling to forego their use

#

mind you the fact they are allowed is, extremely fucking begrudgingly

#

but basically they consider the use of the warp in relation to the chapter to be utterly unacceptable and will essentially not only not allow any psykers within the chapter, but will go out of their way to avoid having any kind of psyker at all near them

#

talked about this yesterday but for instance, a Librarian of another chapter would never get anywhere closer than one of the chapters smaller escort class ships, and the ship would essentially be temporarily decomissioned to cleanse it after they were on it

broken dew
jaunty dawn
#

I see i see

#

Yeah definitely got some mistaken impressions

broken dew
#

in practice even if fucking Guilliman showed up personally with say Chief Librarian Tigurius in tow

#

they would tell him to ditch Tigurius

#

or they would need to meet on either Guillimans ship or a neutral third party location

#

now the Dusk Defiant as far as space marine chapters go

#

are also not particularly asshole-ish

#

especially since they are pretending to be Salamander successors

#

so for not-dick reasons and also just for purely logistical reasons, they would prefer that any psykers that could come of their gene-seed to go fucking anywhere but them

#

because the only real choice they have for dealing with a psyker is the emperors peace

jaunty dawn
#

So I think strictly speaking greyshields were made from original gene stock and not from individual chapters

broken dew
jaunty dawn
#

And not every chapter necessarily got any in the first place

broken dew
#

they are extremely anal about rituals and keeping themselves and all their stuff purified and sanctified

broken dew
jaunty dawn
#

But yeah its more an issue of trusting psykers et al than wanting them gone

broken dew
#

yeah

#

mind you if they come across some rando psyker

jaunty dawn
#

Could be cool to recruit nulls to be like air gapped messengers between astropaths n stuff

broken dew
#

they will just shoot first and ask questions later

#

unless you're a sanctioned psyker working directly for the imperium and announce yourself as such you're free game

broken dew
#

they also absolutely have guards posted whenever Navigators and astropaths do their thing

#

they do not take any chances

#

they would be admittedly weird to work with for other chapters that aren't the Black Templars due to their intolerance of even Librarians, but ultimately pretty handy to have around

#

i think for chapters like the Blood Ravens they might honestly pull a Mortifactors move and bail

#

(The Mortifactors were sent to reinforce the Lamenters in defense of Corillia and upon learning it was the Lamenters they were reinforcing, just called them cursed and turned their ships around and left)

#

The Dusk Defiant showing up to help the Blood Ravens and finding out that their chapter is full of Psykers:

quaint compass
#

As if they'd have a warp drive at that point

broken dew
#

TRUE

#

but yeah the Dusk Defiant are very reliable and meticulous heavy unit specialists that are very nice to have when dealing with space battles

#

they love sending their chapter's flagship and monastery into ship battles at ramming speed

broken dew
#

how the chapter master of the Dusk Defiant, Abachyle Phayne be moving when he sees a space battle

Chapter_Master_type_shit.png
junior robin
#

finally, the emperors aglets primaris lieutenant

rumourengine-oct7-0-content-rwu6qpfvx6.jpg
broken dew
#

lmaooooo

floral herald
#

I think this is probably a servo skull or cherub

broken dew
#

it does seem likely

junior robin
#

my guess is for Tau

marsh tree
#

goddammit, we already had a scout kill team

#

why do we have a second one

floral herald
#

I don’t think they’re very similar at all haha

#

Scouts are a funky middleweight team which spams annoying tokens all over the map

#

And Wolf Scouts are probably gonna be more similar to Nemesis Claw

desert jay
#

Could also be a tech-priest dangly bit

wintry mist
#

I know it is grimdank but it is funny

#

for those who do not want to go to grimdank

mental birch
#

Tau being rhe most normie is kinda funny

#

looks under the hood yeah ifs just mechs

wintry mist
#

IF is very funny to me

#

"The emperor gave us admech for a reason"

mental birch
#

True

#

EC wish they could be this horny

wintry mist
#

"I love the blood angels I wonder what-"

mental birch
#

Dark angels: oops

wintry mist
#

sob does not surprise me except for belgium

#

I think that might be a statistical anomaly

marsh tree
#

This is going in the book

soft willow
#

The poster specifically mentioned the site they scraped the data off of was too old to have good numbers on LoV.

#

That said it's still a grudging.

still warren
#

its gonna be r/deeprockgalactic (100.00)

marsh tree
#

D:

thin ibex
#

As a note, wolf scouts and regular space marine scouts are not the same in terms of skill and scope of operation

floral herald
#

I wanna see the rules for em

paper bluff
#

I wanna see rules for the geomancer

floral herald
untold swallow
paper bluff
#

In 40k

untold swallow
#

But also that won't work cuz my Chapter is also anal, but about what trials aspirants have to go through and being descended from the geneseed of previous Chapter members XD

floral herald
broken dew
paper bluff
#

Have you folks seen this art yet cause got damn

894e409e4552a890ffb95eed08fc062e.jpg
floral herald
#

Only a cropped version this rips

#

notice all the machinery to make sure his head doesn’t go anywhere

upper bluff
#

This is so good

#

I assume these are iron hands? They've never looked this cool

#

And the horse skull looking tech priest on the left?

#

Give me a model of that guy and I'll buy 4.

misty violet
broken dew
#

also on the right most guys book

misty violet
#

The Iron Hands, when they get art, tend to look pretty sick

thin ibex
#

i actually really like iron hands, i just wish they got more lore and stopped being hte mechanically best sm army so frequently

untold swallow
paper bluff
#

I get what you're saying

#

I see it

pastel rampart
paper bluff
paper bluff
vital barn
#

Draykavac was a real piece of work, in a fun way

#

they have a very Skaven special rule on the tabletop

#

they can just bounce off the board to deny the enemy any points for Slay The Warlord

floral herald
#

They’re quietly one of the least codex compliant chapters but you wouldn’t know from their rules!

misty violet
floral herald
#

Yeah more Red Talons would be dope

#

Just having like battle-clan structures and their various extreme departures from imperial norms be playable would be good

paper bluff
#

Plus i'm pretty sure there's enough space marine vehicles that would be pretty cool

runic swallow
paper bluff
floral herald
#

I was thinking more the weird superdreadnoughts, using terminators as squad leaders, and at least one clan’s preference for using captured weapons from any source

#

They’re some weird mofos

#

Also lacking a permanent chapter master and instead having a ruling council with 41 members

#

They’re probably overstrength as well but the lore is weird

#

Also retaining some pre-mechanicus technical knowhow and relics and such

spice flicker
#

Regular land raider or land raider crusader for black templars?

untold swallow
untold swallow
#

Let the weird Christianity flow through you

charred bridge
runic swallow
#

Hey it’s also Weird Islam too

#

And Weird Occultism (generally based on Abrahamic beliefs though)

charred bridge
#

It's kind of odd since like the cloned metachrists who got undeniably holy mutations

#

In that setting Jesus was the undeniably real deal one of the prophets

#

I do appreciate how it leans a lot into pre Christian texts too for inspiration, whoever wrote that knew their irl abrahamic religions very well

untold swallow
#

I think I'm gonna make the Fallen Chaos Sorcerer who was a villain in my Chapter's past be a part of an IW warband for protection in exchange for summoning more powerful daemons for their engines

broken dew
#

sounds neat

finite compass
spice flicker
paper bluff
charred bridge
#

It would be funny if Dante dies, but they somehow bring him back as a dreadnought it something similar to Gulliman's suit

sweet solar
#

time for him to get brought back by the sanguinor

#

sanguinor 2: lil brother dantes suffering is increasing

spice flicker
#

Trying to figure out a good idea for a general strategy to use with space marines in a crusade. Should I look at doing phobos heavy, gravis heavy, melee focused, or ranged focused?

charred bridge
rocky shale
#

SM are also a faction where you often don't need to specialize too much

#

Outside of what's detachment you pick

pale narwhal
#

Yeah. Depends on your chapter and what you want to do with em

spice flicker
#

Problem is I cant actually decide and dont know what general strategy to go with.

pale narwhal
#

Gravis heavy can be funky if you want to go that route

Big bricks of heavy intercessors etc

spice flicker
#

Funky good or funky bad?

sour sequoia
#

brutalis ones are a lil too costly at the start

spice flicker
#

Really?

sour sequoia
#

shitload of guns for cheap and good upgrade options

#

but also everything everybody else said is accurate, SM has a bajillion good datasheets you can Do Whatever

pale narwhal
#

In crusade*

spice flicker
#

I see so maybe gravis or phobos focused, how are the latter?

rocky shale
#

TBH when I started this crusade with my LGS I kinda expected people to react to me playing knights by just adding an extra 500 points of anti-tank to their roster to bring out and just trash me every game...

But only like 1 guy did that and the rest just have kinda consigned themselves to lose, which is not even particularly fun on my part.

#

Wack

vital barn
#

average Knight experience, frankly

#

except normally it's more a 50/50 distribution

rocky shale
#

The wack part is that crusade explicitly lets you basically do list tailoring with the way it works

#

And people just dont even a little?

spice flicker
#

I played chaos knights in the last crusade and yeah the only time I was seriously threatened was against the dark Eldar guy who decided loading up on tantalus, ravagers, and reapers with only like 1 or 2 squads of kabalites.

vital barn
#

alas, poor Tantalus

#

poor Reapers, too

rocky shale
#

So far my only threats have been guard tank spam and EC with crazy buffed characters that just shred in melee

spice flicker
#

Me and the DE guy were tied for the "most hated to fight" award.

#

We had a guard player who went all in artillery and infantry spam....it didnt end well with him.

#

Knight abominant in crusade is amazing and infuriated the custodes player to fight against.

rocky shale
#

My one despoiler has been an absolute machine

#

I cant imagine running 2-3 like in competetive lists

spice flicker
#

I had a desecrator as my 2nd big knight and quickly became one my army's mvps.

rocky shale
#

36 shots with lethals, Ap2 D2 is insane

#

It reliably kills light/med tanks in one go

spice flicker
#

Oh yeah and would love to do knights again (my main army outside of crusade) but unfortunately the crusade organizer decreed we cant use the same faction as before. That is why I am looking at SM.

rocky shale
#

I probably wouldnt do knights again with the same group for like a whiiiiile

#

Dont want to become "knights pubstomping guy"

#

Maybe next time ill do imperial agents because holy shit inquisitors can get insane if you can keep them alive to get xp

spice flicker
#

If I dont do SM but instead do something like imperial agents I might bring in a trio of armigers around 1000 or 1250 points

spice flicker
rocky shale
#

Agents are rough but might be able to be carried if you can get an early lead by just how good their codex upgrades are

#

Stack a few things and you get like anti-infantry 2+/anti-monster 4+ on a dev wounds force sword

rocky shale
vital barn
#

Finished reading Legion

#

the Alphas are very cool in this

#

also explains a lot of their wild activity during the Heresy

spice flicker
rocky shale
#

none of this is even using a specific crusade book rules, this is all from the codex crusade rules

#

granted you will need some victory bonuses and such to actually get more than 4 battle honors but still

spice flicker
#

Hmmm.....now i need to figure out a proper 750 pts list since this has me curious now and the last time I designed a IA list for crusade I forgot battleline.

rocky shale
#

IA is still pretty bad but if you can sneak out enough wins to get some upgrades you may be able to salvage it with good buffs

spice flicker
#

Heres my rough first idea for a 750 points IA list though I feel it could be better.

Screenshot_20251007_212045_Print_Spooler.jpg
rocky shale
#

Not bad but its also ignoring most of your best units

spice flicker
#

The marines?

rocky shale
#

Deathwatch, rogue traders, breachers, and subductors

spice flicker
#

My idea for going up to 1000 was to remove the voidsmen and add in two warglaives

rocky shale
#

Deathwatch are your antitank hammer, subductors are an anvil and also the ultimate roadblock

#

RTE gives you tons of tricks and breachers buff any character attached to them (like an RTE)

#

meltas are mostly the best anti tank you get but they still arent great

#

Other than DWKT hammers

#

IMO i dont really like the iquisitorial agents especially at low points costs

#

You're gonna almost definitely be trying to play for objectives so you probably want a lot of units and focusing less on giving them all transports

#

Esp. because you can give lots of stuff infiltrate

spice flicker
#

Does this look any better?

Screenshot_20251007_213625_Print_Spooler.jpg
#

Navigator+voidsmen babysitting the home objective and proving a bubble of preventing reinforcements in my deployment.

#

Funny enough I think its the same amount of bodies

rocky shale
#

What goes in the chimera?

#

I would maybe only go 1 immolator just because you dont really need both halves of a split squad in one. Put the good guns in the immolator and use the other half to sticky objectives

spice flicker
#

Since the Inquisitor is with the deathwatch they should be able to enter no? If not I will sawp to a rhino. Also should I keep the immolators or swap them for more deatwatch or something else?

rocky shale
#

Inquisitor adds a keyword to the unit, not the models

#

Also it specifically says it cant carry termi models

#

So it can only carry non-termi inquisitors and inquitorial agent units

#

So yeah it has to be a rhino

spice flicker
#

Yeah swapped one of the immolators for a 2nd squad of deathwatch and got the rhino in place of the chimera

rocky shale
#

watch master could also be an option for the DW

#

oh you have the inquisitor for now

spice flicker
#

Yeah eventually want to attach the terminator Inquisitor to some Grey knights

pale narwhal
spice flicker
pale narwhal
#

Invictors are okay, fairly squishy for what they are

Eliminators can be fun with a phobos librarian, either sniping infantry characters or light vehicles and being hard to return fire on

spice flicker
#

Meanwhile gravis only have heavy ints, eradicators, aggressors,

pale narwhal
#

Also inceptors are gravis

spice flicker
#

Forgot the inceptors

untold swallow
#

So I joined a Deathwatch West Marches type server

#

Wanna guess my Librarian's starting Weapons Skill?

#

Hint; Go Higher

stark cypress
#

Uhhhhhhhhhhh

#

42

#

universal answer is always 42

untold swallow
#

70

#

And since I'm a Consecrator and can have a Master-Crafted Relic at chargen

#

add 10 for attacks with my sword

#

so 80

#

l m a o

stark cypress
#

_>

#

That scares me Rhi

#

You're a scary lady running an even scarier badass.

vital barn
#

glad that someone else is joining me in "I have a job, but what if I was amazing at swords instead" for warhammer characters

#

or halberds, in my case

upper canopy
#

I made a Deathwatch Devastator, in a real campaign game and without powergaming anything that he wouldn't just naturally get

#

And he had an effective ballistic skill of 115

pale narwhal
#

That’s Just Deathwatch Things tbh

upper canopy
#

I know

untold swallow
#

Hey I've not powergamed I've actually been actively pushed to do this stuff by the gms cuz they say it'd be funny

#

xD

untold swallow
vital barn
#

Don't worry, I've been stuck on an Exalted game for six months because life was true comboing me

untold swallow
#

o o f

vital barn
#

(and some of the players, also)

#

On the upside I played the Messmer fight in Elden Ring and got some ideas for my Magos' fucked up body proportions

upper canopy
pale narwhal
#

I should remake my first ever 40krpg character now that I actually know what I’m doing (he was a deathwatch carcharodon assault marine)

vital barn
#

I'm going for a fairly faithful recreation of the classic Arcuitor Magisterium loadout

upper canopy
#

Technically my first ever 40krpg character was Danny DeVito who could translate the sewer talk of the sewer mutants and who was flushed down a toilet into a war between sentient crabs and rats.

vital barn
#

although probably not as strong because Arcuitors on the 30k tabletop will happily throw down with Custodes shield-captains

upper canopy
#

During the one combat encounter we had I rolled 3 100s in a row

vital barn
#

(not quite Tribunes, but close)

pale narwhal
#

Unfathomably based

I should get into 30k mechanicum at some point

vital barn
#

30k Magi are extremely swole

#

The main thing limiting their swoleness is being slow and lacking good transports

tranquil ivy
#

how it feels knowing i can have female space marines and nobody can stop me because ive spent way too much money on minis to be called a tourist

20250913_153431.jpg
vital barn
#

I also think that 30k Mech sell the power fantasy of the Mechanicus way better than their younger cousins

#

your units are big, lumbering and don't have the well-rounded stats and ease of deployment that the Legions do, but they all demand respect

stark cypress
#

It would be funny to see what 30K era Rangers/Skitarii look like as miniatures.

vital barn
#

Mechanicum tanks are weird and have terrible rear armour, but they will take squads of vet marines off the table with ease if you let them get an angle on you

stark cypress
vital barn
#

Mechanicum HQs are slow and lumbering and don't come with easily equipped command squads like Praetors do, but combat-optimised Magi can ruin anyone short of a Primarch or repair a superheavy tank to full in one round, etc.

vital barn
pale narwhal
#

Ooooh

vital barn
#

and lorewise we know they have darkfire/photon weapons as their standard armament, which are basically Mechanicum versions of Dark Lances

#

the old 7e Photon Gauntlet was two shots at S5 AP2 Gets Hot, but in this edition the smallest photon gun we have goes on a multimelta-sized mount, so not sure what infantry weapon photon will look like statwise

pale narwhal
#

They have photon weapons as their standard armament??? Oh god

vital barn
#

the model has some kind of photon gun, we can see the cooling fins on in the preview

pale narwhal
#

Might get me back into fully collecting admech in some form if 30k skitarii release and are sick af

vital barn
pale narwhal
#

Oh that is sick as fuck

stark cypress
pale narwhal
#

Hopefully it’s a squad and not a single character

If it’s a squad I will absolutely start collecting 30k mechanicum

#

Because that is sick

vital barn
#

the ones in the Schism of Mars book are leading a resistance against the traitor occupation of Mars from the mountains and the wastes

#

some of them guide Raven Guard, Blood Angels and Custodes raids to targets and blast some automata with them

#

the Terrans proceed to get rinsed and then a lot of the Skittles are purged by retaliatory hunter-killers, but I choose to believe that that's an Astartes/Custodes Skill Issue

stark cypress
#

There was a reason that the Emperor did the whole omnissiah thing instead of conquering Mars.

vital barn
#

shouldn't have come to Mars if they didn't want to rumble with four brass scorpions and a bunch of daemon engines

stark cypress
pale narwhal
#

Ooh that could be a fun army idea actually

Skitarii/mechanicum guerrilla resistance in the martian wastes

vital barn
#

the Liber Mechanicum is quite sensible here: Emps probably would have won, but it wasn't by any means certain and it definitely would have been ruinously bloody and destructive

stark cypress
#

Yeah

#

And the Void Dragon probably would've woken up during that.

#

Adding an angry C'tan god in the mix would've not been fun.

vital barn
#

eeh, the Void Dragon lore is all dreadful and doesn't really indicate anything beyond "spooky necron thing's in there"

stark cypress
#

True

vital barn
#

if the Schism of Mars didn't cause anything of the sort I'm not sure a Terran war would have

#

anyway interested to see what arcana they give the Skittles

#

if it's unlocked it'll fill a big factional gap

#

although I am still praying for a jump pack magos

stark cypress
#

I know there's solar auxilla models

#

but I want to see what the Imperial Army looks like

#

Because the Solar Auxilla are just the tempestus scions of 30K.

#

What does the Guard of 30K look like?

junior summit
#

I mean didn't thes chism of mars render mars even more of a hellscape?

stark cypress
#

Yes

#

Yes it did

junior summit
#

more lost knowledge, lost vaults, more radiation etc

pale narwhal
#

I need to look at how 30k actually plays and how stuff functions, I just booted up newrecruit to see what there was and there’s a lot of unfamiliar rules and wordings

vital barn
#

yeah, it was the latest apocalypse of the four or five that happened to that planet

#

pre-Schism mars can throw pretty titanic hands

#

they were building Von Neumann platforms that just sat in the outer solar system building thousands of defence satellites out of asteroids, for one

#

the Custodes boarded the main one after it got chaos corrupted and it 3d-printed enough automata and daemon engines to kill a couple of hundred of them before the Dark Angels showed up and cyclonic torpedoed it to death

pale narwhal
junior summit
vital barn
#

change the head and the weapon, behold your new archmagos malagra

#

go duel suckers

junior summit
#

it keeps happening

vital barn
#

I made a list, and it gets a bit absurd

#

here

#

there are probably more

#

the Mech are very much lore punching bags and get most of their hype moments and aura from battles they lose

stark cypress
#

They just Job

#

They the lore jobbers to the stars.

vital barn
#

killing guard regiments isn't impressive, killing important marines isn't allowed and the Mech has lots of big impressive machinery for everyone else to blow up dramatically

#

although at this point I think it is getting a bit ridiculous

#

the 40k Mechanicus' best showing is in an Ork book that they still lose

stark cypress
#

I mean

#

It's Orks

#

Given enough time they can just steamroll through anything.

#

Except in Octarius

#

Octarius was a shitshow for everyone

#

Oh god, the Tyranids will never die.

vital barn
#

yeah, Orks can beat anything with enough juice, but it is annoying that the Mech losing yet another forge world in someone else's book is literally the best they've ever done outside tiny codex snapshots

upper canopy
#

The Orks did win Octarius

#

That Was A Thing

vital barn
#

our big campaign book was meant to be War Zone Charadon

#

both parts featured the Mech being effortlessly styled on complete with cover art of dead Skitarii and nothing else

stark cypress
#

God, it's like ants in cereal.

#

You look away for one minute and then they're drowning in a bowl of Lucky Charms.

upper canopy
#

Well there isn't any orks there anymore

#

since after they won, they left, then everyone else tried to show up and take it, and then Tyranids ate everyone

stark cypress
#

As usual

#

40K is just eternal suffering

#

Unless you're Cain then your suffering comedic.

pale narwhal
vital barn
#

(or possibly other kinds, because the Malagra det can be a bit sad)

broken dew
#

Looked up more about terminator availability and i think i will be employing a funny idea i had for the chapters Hall of Remembrance in regards to how the Dusk Defiant has so many termies

#

The Hall of Remembrance being the Dusk Defiants resting place for fallen of the chapter as well as where the shrines for all their fallen heroes and venerated members, i thought it would be kinda funny to have a section dedicated to venerated marines of other chapters that have done the chapter a "service" which in this case would be leaving behind bits of termie armor for them to scavenge

#

Both a sort of veneration of the dead and a record of whose lost termie armors they've got

untold swallow
#

I have the highest WS in this Deathwatch server as a Rank 1 Librarian with Rank 4 Assault Marines, mom help

upper canopy
#

How

broken dew
#

WS? Deathwatch Server?

desert jay
#

WS is Weapon Skill, which is the stat for hitting enemies with chainswords or pointy sticks or w/e

#

And I assume Deathwatch TTRPG but if there's a Deathwatch video game that uses the stats wouldn't be surprised

broken dew
#

Ic ic

pale narwhal
#

It is the ttrpg, yeah

untold swallow
# upper canopy How

Rolled a perfect stat roll, got Gauntles of Xirion in Armor History, spent for two WS advancements

untold swallow
pale narwhal
untold swallow
#

My max WS is 80

#

I am also a Consecrator, meaning I start with a Master-Crafted Relic

#

I picked my Force Claymore

#

So my WS with it is actually 80

broken dew
#

Yeah i think i'll keep this as lore, i find it funny

IMG_1694.png
broken dew
#

Gonna write a bit for the 1st Captain, then i think i oughta start working on the chapters history

#

biggest consideration rn is where the fuck i'm going to pull loyalist death guard from in the heresy

#

since from what i can tell, Mortarion was going to reinforce Horus at Terra when Tyhon went sicko mode and condemned the legion to Nurgles service

#

and the surviving loyalists were on the Eisenstein after Istvaan III

#

i guess it's probably going to come down to the inaugural marines of the Dusk Defiant chapter having been lost in the warp at some point before Istvaan III and then showing up again at some point after their legion fell to nurgle and getting a face full of horror

pale narwhal
#

is it a good or bad sign for my sanity that I'm mocking up deployments and staging for an upcoming killteam league game on TTS? I fear it's leaning towards being bad for my sanity but also I really enjoy going 'hmm if I move stuff like so I can potentially do this, if I hide in this corner I can't get charged that turn and can do my tac op action tp2...' and so on and so forth

broken dew
#

nah i mean, being prepared isn't bad is it

#

coming up with battle strategies ahead of time can certainly be helpful

#

plus you can test stuff out and see what kind of things work and kinda get a feel for your amy no?

pale narwhal
#

it's more my sanity as I get more and more into killteam

I've only played four games and I'm already mocking up deployments and staging and such (something I haven't done for 40k in the ten years I've played)

broken dew
#

i hardly think enjoying yourself comes at the cost of your sanity, so long as it doesn't come at the cost of other aspects of your life

pale narwhal
#

I am mostly joking

I'm having a lot of fun figuring out how to kill Deathwatch (or rather, win the mission) from either side of the map in question (mostly figuring out how I can leverage my battleclade's Remote Access ploy to tap objectives in order to do my tac op safely (on one side of deployment, I can fairly safely do an action on an objective in turning point 2, on the other I have to be a bit riskier- might have to take light barricades to stage or somesuch. I can also tap both other objectives fairly safely from beyond hatchways to get my probable tac op maxed out, I'll have a much better time on one side over the other but both are workable

can also potentially get a key breach point open turning point 1 and then switch my breacher or meltagun somewhere safer, which is nice

broken dew
#

i mean personally i've never really interacted with the tabletop at all due to finding the models too expensive but i'm trying to put together a 2000 point army list for my original chapter so idk

#

sometimes you just gotta lock in when it's fun

pale narwhal
#

I am having a great time with killteam

broken dew
#

net positive then

pale narwhal
#

new tau stealthsuits are the next killteam so I'm 100% getting them when they come out separately

...god I have a lot of upcoming releases I want, I was eyeing up the battleforce for marines too (two dreads, hellblasters, sternguard, a captain, company heroes)

broken dew
#

since i don't have remotely the disposable income to actually get into 40k rn i just want to like

#

get models for the Chapter Master of my custom chapter and his honor guard

#

which is easier said than done because they don't seem to do single releases of tartaros terminators or cataphractii at a reasonable price and i don't have any use for more than one of either atm

#

i could maybe make use of a few Cataphractii for head chaplain and some other elites but i really only need one Tartaros pattern

#

ironically the most convenient ones for me to get rn would just be the Saturnine since they come in sets of 4 and that's exactly the amount i need

pale narwhal
#

there might (might) be individual models for sale if you go second hand? specifically on like, bits trading sites sometimes they sell complete sets of bits for x amount of terminators

broken dew
#

yeah i'm gonna need to look second hand for stuff

#

honestly the things i need for the chapter master are one full Tartaros Pattern terminator, cataphractii shoulders and head, two storm shields, two powerfist arms and two smaller flamers

#

which is sort of an eclectic assortment of bits

#

i'm not even gonna bother trying to fit his pistols on the model, they can be implied

#

his honor guard are just straight up gonna be full on saturnines so i can just get the full saturnine box for them

pale narwhal
#

hand flamers you can probably get fairly easily at astartes scale, they're not a particularly popular option in regards to like. competitive lists

storm shields you can probably find a variety of- hell, if you can't find anything cheap I've got a bunch of Bladeguard storm shields and a few mk6 heresy combat shields lying around that you'd just have to pay shipping for (from new zealand)

I might even have hand flamers too

broken dew
#

saturnines are 30k so i was going to proxy them as centurions

#

you can take from what i found an amount of centurions + centurion sergeant as a unit for 120 points so i could either do the chapter master as a Captain in Terminator Armor proxy or maybe proxy him as the Centurion Sergeant to get him alongside his honor guard

#

still need to take a better look at the codex space marine and such to figure out what the best option would be to represent him

#

but i do want the model to at least look like him, and he has twin power fists with storm shields mounted on them and underslung flamers as his like, sick relic weapons to go with his Tartaros pattern terminator armor

#

he's got a bit of the same vibe going on as Calgar with his weapons

#

also i should mention the reason i want the cataphractii bits are cause his tartaros armor is customized to look sorta like Cataphractii armor to match the elites of his chapter

#

i felt like the shoulders and helmet would combine nicest with the Tartaros body

#

he'll clearly look like a Tartaros termie but it's also clear he's matching his chapter with the cataphractii bits

#

i'm going for more of a lore angle than i am a tabletop angle hence whatever he would end up playing as on the tabletop would certainly not have his weapons and gear unless i made a custom unit or such

#

also hence the proxying thing

#

going to prolly try to do some art of him before i commit to doing a custom mini though so i get an idea what i want for his looks

broken dew
#

Formalized a war cry for the Dusk Defiant

tranquil ivy
#

my order arrived yayayayayaya

20251008_120529.jpg
#

got some bits for my brutalis now

pale narwhal
#

Hell yeah

broken dew
#

Sick

#

I really wanna do some dreadnoughts

#

A contemptor and a deredeo

#

The Anvilus Deredeo seems to come with everything i want for it

#

if i find some access to resin printers i'll definitely get the Contemptor at least

tranquil ivy
#

I presume you'll be using them for Horus Heresy?

broken dew
#

nah i just want displays for some members of my custom chapter

tranquil ivy
#

oh i seeee

broken dew
#

would use legends rules for the Deredeo at least in 40k if i ever wanted to use it for a game if i put an army together

#

i have 5 named characters rn for my chapter, the Chapter Master, Lord Vigilant Rector(Master of Sanctity), 1st Captain and two dreadnoughts

tranquil ivy
#

the contemptor has a pretty fucking good legends rule in 10th

broken dew
#

the dreadnoughts are a deredeo and a contemptor, their names are Arystichor the Earthscorcher and Siegfrid the Wingbane respectively

tranquil ivy
#

the Contemptor has a 5/6 chance to come back with d6 wounds after death. its pretty lit

broken dew
#

damn

tranquil ivy
#

180 points too

broken dew
#

that's pretty cracked

tranquil ivy
broken dew
#

honestly if i made a full army it would probably not have super many models since my chapter mostly does termies, dreads and centurions

tranquil ivy
#

I'd recommend the Iron Hands themed detachment if thats the case, lmao

broken dew
#

yeahhhhhh lmao

#

honestly probably would be better for 30k since they use a lot of 30k models

#

Termies like Cataphractii, tartaros and Saturnine and dreads like Deredeo and Contemptor

#

one of the things i'd need to do making an actual army would for sure be proxying the saturnines

#

the Saturnines particularly have no 40k rules but iirc i can run the Termies as relic terminators and the dreads have legend rules

tranquil ivy
#

Proxying is always valid

broken dew
#

would proxy the Sats as centurions

#

which i was also considering if i should proxy the chapter master model as a centurion too so he could be with his elite guard but i probably should just have him be a captain in terminator armor

tranquil ivy
#

i need to kitbash some new Company Heroes tbh

broken dew
#

my chapter master with his honor guard would basically be that as a unit

#

except he's wearing Tartaros armor and he's got 4 saturnines with him

tranquil ivy
#

my first company captain is a Kleptomaniac and a forgemaster so im running her as Vulkan Hestan, as such she needs a bodyguard squad (which'll be the Company Heroes)

20250911_033340.jpg
broken dew
#

so it wouldn't work at all which is why he's potentially just going to be a Centurion Devastator squad with his 4 boys

tranquil ivy
#

sadge

broken dew
#

yeah

#

i am super set on his honor guard being saturnine termies since the chapter fields a lot of termies, the chapter master is a termie, and their head chaplain also is a termie

#

and i don't think i could spin a proxy of 4 saturnine terminators on a company of heroes lmao

#

might be a bit much lmao

tranquil ivy
#

Company Heroes use 40mm bases and as long as you give em an ancient then you should be set

#

Okay give me a sec to check something

broken dew
#

yeah sure go ahead

tranquil ivy
#

if you run the saturnine termies as Aggressors then you can run your character as Iron Father Feirros

#

Like how I run Forgemaster Kulve as Vulkan Hestan :>

#

i recommend Feirros because your unit gets a 5+ FNP

broken dew
#

ok actually that is

tranquil ivy
#

you can also use him as a techmarine

broken dew
#

doable

tranquil ivy
#

so you can repair your nearby dreadnoughts

#

and get lone operative if your squad dies

broken dew
#

this works with the lore because my chapter master knows tech marine stuff

#

he's a multidisciplinarian

tranquil ivy
#

well there ya go

#

run him as the Iron Father

broken dew
#

sound plan

#

great success, thanks

tranquil ivy
#

if it matters he also improves the OC of heavy intercessors to 3

#

He is also really cheap (95pts)

broken dew
#

so you have Feirros as leader for the agressor squad

tranquil ivy
#

what that means is just

#

you attach Feirros to the squad, and they all take damage before him

#

They gain his perks, and he gets bodyguards

broken dew
#

yeah that's exactly what i want

tranquil ivy
#

so yea either Aggressors, Eradicators or Heavy Intercessors

I recommend Aggressors due to their real solid melee

#

twin linked power fists

broken dew
#

Sounds good

#

Eradicators or aggressors would fit best

tranquil ivy
#

mhm

#

Eradicators are good for anti vehicles, Aggressors are good for anti infantry imo

broken dew
#

Mhm

#

I guess since i am proxying i can prolly do case by case depending on how points cost shakes out

tranquil ivy
#

correct

#

both use identical bases (40mm)

#

you can just choose what you run them as. and both use the 3-6 unit rules

broken dew
#

Ok sick

#

Gonna need to check point costs later

#

Thankfully my other named characters should be simpler to run

#

Legends for the dreads, chaplain in terminator armor for the head chaplain and captain in terminator armor for the 1st captain

tranquil ivy
#

mhm!

broken dew
tranquil ivy
broken dew
#

Ok

#

Is the contemptor's cost in the munitorum the relic dreadnought one

#

Oh wait no the legends munitorum does have a contemptor cost i just missed ig

#

Hmm slight conundrum with the aggressors, i want to run 4 saturnines so i'll need to do two other models with the 6 model rule for aggressors/eradicators

#

Prolly just proxy two other models as the honor guard vanguard or standard bearers or something

#

Or wait is the -20 on the 6 model rule if i wanna subtract models they cost 20 less from the total

jaunty dawn
#

I think saturnines are bigger than gravis stuff

#

No the -20 is how much their price went down since last time

broken dew
#

Ah ok

jaunty dawn
#

10th ed doesnt have per model costs

broken dew
#

Right

jaunty dawn
#

If you want more than three you pay for six

broken dew
#

Righty

#

I'll need to check the bases for the models to see how that shakes out and what models i can proxy the sats as

jaunty dawn
#

I think they’re centurion sized

broken dew
#

This is why Guilliman is so peak i guess, logistics...

broken dew
#

But then i can't run them with the chapter master unless i proxy him as a centurion sergeant or other if there is a leader model that works with centurions

#

Yeah Saturnines use 50mm round base and aggressors are 40mm darn

#

That sucks

mental birch
#

Aggressors are more termie size

broken dew
#

Yeah

#

I mean Saturnine are termies

#

They're just enormous

mental birch
broken dew
#

And as it seems, too big

#

I really don't want to run them as centurions and just run Abachyle as a centurion sergeant though

#

Guess i might have to

#

The Iron Father Feirros idea was really good otherwise

#

Guess you could try putting a sat on a 40mm base but that doesn't seem like it'd work out great

IMG_1702.png
floral herald
#

They’re sorta predictable and punish mistakes very severely

floral herald
broken dew
#

I could still potentially proxy my head chaplain or 1st captain over Feirros i guess but idk

broken dew
floral herald
#

Not like a full librarian but “baseline” marines can’t operate it cause it uses cybertheurgic principles to work or something

broken dew
#

I did sorta imagine their head chaplain as like, low-key psychic which is how he sniffs out warp shit

broken dew
broken dew